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the one main difference between El Salvador and any other country I've seen is the optimism.

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There's optimism here.

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People are looking into the future with hope, with plans, with visions.

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People will tell you, this country, you know, things are way better here than they used

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to be, whereas if you go to Germany, for example, people will tell you the opposite.

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That sounds like a simple thing, but it makes a world of a difference.

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This country has regained its collective identity and they are proud to show their country,

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they are proud to show the things they have, the volcanoes, the surf, the pupusas, the

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bitcoin law even.

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This country wants bitcoins to come here, and so of course bitcoins want to come here.

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I don't want to be working against the official narrative of my government all the time.

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That's very tiring and exhausting.

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The moment you experience the opposite, you don't want to go back.

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Today that guest is Lena Zike, the creator of everyone's favorite bitcoin, comic, plushie,

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and all-around character, the little hodler.

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Lena just moved to El Salvador, so we go deep into what motivated her to make the move to

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bitcoin country, what she thinks of it, the misperceptions she sees from the outside looking

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in, and advice for those looking to move to or just visit El Salvador.

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Before we dive in, if you like the bitcoin podcast, please share an episode you find

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As always, you can watch the video version of this episode on Rumble, YouTube, or X,

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or search at Walker America, or listen on Fountain.fm, or wherever you get your podcast

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hit me up on social media, or through the website bitcoinpodcast.net.

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Without further ado, let's get into this bitcoin talk with Lena Zeike.

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How are you doing?

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Last time, I'm trying to think, last time we saw you was, was it in Prague?

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Does that sound right?

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I think it was Prague, yeah.

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It feels like a long time.

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We've been, obviously with the baby and everything, we have been out of the loop for a little

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while.

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Thank you, thank you.

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Yeah.

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But no, we're, I didn't know, I didn't know Carla was pregnant.

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We were still, yeah, still hush hush at that point just because it was fairly early on.

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But yeah, now the clearly she was, she was pregnant during that time.

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She's actually pregnant during a bitcoin conference in Miami too.

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So that was, that was like very early on in the process.

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So technically our little guy has already been to a couple of bitcoin conferences.

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He just was in the womb during it.

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So I say you should play classical music when, when you're pregnant.

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So the kid becomes like cultured or whatever.

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I wonder what's going to happen to him if you went to conferences.

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He's yeah, just going to start gently having glowing laser eyes the older he gets.

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No, I mean, it's, it's some good, some pretty good information to soak up though.

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I mean, the nice thing about bitcoin conferences too, is you always, you know, he'll get a

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chance to hear a bunch of different languages spoken and very anti state rhetoric.

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If he can understand it yet, we'll see.

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So I mean, I can't, I can't imagine much better information to be putting into his

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little forming brain.

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And you got to start him young, right?

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Yeah, exactly.

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Oh my God, I'm so happy for you.

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We're very, very excited with the little guy.

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He's been a, he's been a good time so far.

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Man, they get big fast though.

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It's wild.

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Like they just, yeah, they just grow and I mean, kid eats a lot.

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So that's good.

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But I think he's looking like he's going to be bigger than me.

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So yeah, watch out.

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It's going to be a large guy.

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Oh, that's so great.

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Oh my God.

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Amazing.

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But how are, how are you doing?

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Now you are, you are full on living in El Salvador now, right?

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Yes, sir.

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And when did you, when did you officially make the move?

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So oh my God, everything happened after we met because we met in June.

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Right?

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So actually.

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Yeah, they live in June.

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Yeah.

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So I, I went in August and I, I spent like almost two weeks there, but I just, I just

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really, really loved it there.

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So I went, that was my first time and then a month later I came back because I loved

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it so much.

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And then I had to leave again because it was conferences.

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Like it was conference season.

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And after conference season end of October, I think Lugano was the last one.

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Then I came back here and then I just didn't leave.

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So now I have my, yeah, now I have my residence, my company's here.

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Yeah.

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My stuff is here.

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I mean, I don't have much stuff.

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I just sent myself a bunch of plushies.

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I was going to say, yeah, the most, the most important things, piano and plenty of, plenty

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of flush little holders.

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But you know, this frame is basically all I have.

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So, oh, I also have a PlayStation.

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Okay.

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So you, you truly have all the essentials.

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I mean, that, that, you know, that's good.

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It's a, you know, anything that is not pictured is basically just a Bitcoin being stacked.

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Right.

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That's a, that's what it comes down to.

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I don't have any, but theoretically, of course not me neither.

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But I'd like some someday.

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Oh man.

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Well, well, great.

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Well, you know, I'm glad we were getting a chance to talk here just to catch up for

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one, but then also because I think this journey of yours with going to El Salvador, I think

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it's something that is really kind of interesting and exciting for a lot of people because there

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are probably a lot of folks around the world from all sorts of countries who are looking

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at what's happening in El Salvador and thinking, you know what, things don't look quite as

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hopeful in my country.

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And maybe it's time to make a move.

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Like we live in this globally connected world now.

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If you are able to have your laptop, most people can work from most places.

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And so, you know, I wanted a chance to kind of talk to you about that and obviously talk

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about, you know, I'm just a huge fan of the little hodler.

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Who is not?

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I mean, you've built, I've got a few of them back here.

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And I think I tried to, I'm pretty sure we've got one of, you know, the like original ones

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too that we got at Bitcoin Conf a couple of years ago.

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Well, not like original original, but like, you know, the, the more, yeah, I think something

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like that, but they're just the best.

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And the comic strips that you put out as well are always, first of all, you're able to just

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pick up the zeitgeist of the moment so quickly and get it out there.

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And they're always just so right on the mark.

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And clearly they resonate with people too, because it's like this adorable little character

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who you look at and you know, if you don't read what it's saying that you look at and

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you're like, Oh, that's, that's cute.

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You know, like perhaps some little children's comic.

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And then you read it and it's all this incredibly poignant kind of rebuke of the, the clown world,

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fiat world, shenanigans and the hopefulness of Bitcoin rolled into one.

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And I just think it's, it's so brilliant.

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So maybe a good place for us to start is can you kind of just tell us, first of all, who

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you are and how did you get here today to be making, having this business where you have

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now brought to El Salvador, you're making these adorable plush little hodlers and you're

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creating these incredible comic strips that just about, I think everyone you make goes

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like viral or mini viral, like it's quite impressive.

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So how did you get here to be doing this today, Lena?

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Yeah, nice.

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Wait, the first question was who am I, right?

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I'm Lena.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I'm Lena.

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I am, well, hold on.

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Yeah.

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I'm Lena.

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I'm from Germany.

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There you go.

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That's me.

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And I make Bitcoin comics.

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So I started this in 2020, actually.

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So at the time I was in the Bitcoin space, but I was working in more in marketing.

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I still do marketing, but now I do it for my plushies.

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And I was also active on Bitcoin Twitter at the time.

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And really what it boils down to the reason why I started doing the comics is because

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I couldn't handle the toxicity.

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So, you know, at the time, around that time when I made my first comic, Bitcoin was like

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$9,000 and we had that whole 9,000 meme.

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Oh my God, the Dragon Ball creator died.

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I saw that.

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I just saw that today.

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I was like, oh my gosh.

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I didn't watch a ton of like anime growing up, but Dragon Ball Z was one that I watched

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like religiously.

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I saw that was like, that was like a, that was, that's a sad, sad moment.

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It's like a part of childhood that kind of dies.

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But now it also, I feel like it's going to encourage people like I want to go back and

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rewatch everything now.

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Like I feel like when that happens, when some like creator passes away, everybody says,

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wait, I love that so much.

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It was such a big part of who I was growing up.

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Let me go revisit it through a new lens and like you get a new appreciation for it.

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You know, and they live on through their work, which I think is kind of beautiful.

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Same feeling.

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Everybody's really sad, but they celebrate his life's work and I love that.

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I mean, what more can you ask for?

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You know, that's a great legacy.

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Yeah, it is.

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It's still sad.

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Wow.

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I totally got sidetracked because of the over 9,000 meme.

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Yeah, so Bitcoin was over 9,000 for like a month straight.

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It was right after the halving and we all knew it was a similar, like a similar feeling

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to right now where we're like, okay, once we cross the threshold, it's just going to

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go way up.

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And we knew that at the time it was 10K.

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So we knew it was going to go there.

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We just didn't quite know when and it was this like vibe of anticipation in among Bitcoiners.

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And I was already active on Bitcoin Twitter at the time.

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I was doing like, you know, there are these, these super hyper bullish Bitcoin tweets

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were doing really well at the time.

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And I did a bunch of those because you know, they would get your impressions and followers

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and that actually worked.

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But my problem was that doing these controversial tweets would make me really self conscious

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because I didn't want to get hate in the comments.

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So I would post a tweet and then I would turn off my notifications for the rest of

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it.

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It's just kind of lame.

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But yeah, so that was kind of my routine at the time.

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And then that when I made the first comic, it was like July 2020.

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I just had the idea.

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Like I'd like to tell a grand story about it, but I just, I had an idea for a comic.

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I don't know where it came from.

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It just kind of appeared and I just kind of made it on PowerPoint at the time.

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It was super, super raw.

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Yeah.

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Sometimes people still pull it up and it's also kind of like it's a bit nostalgic.

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I like it.

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I like looking at it.

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But yeah, so I did that and it fit the theme at the time.

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It fit the mood at the time and it became my most like tweet at the time.

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So it was just like randomly I discovered something that I didn't know was there, like

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a demand for something that I, that was completely unexpected for me.

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So that was the first time I made a comic.

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But it was a one-off thing.

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I didn't have any, because it appeared so suddenly I had no more ideas.

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It wasn't like, oh, I'm going to make a bunch of comics now.

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No, just a random idea.

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And I had another random idea for another comic a couple months later and that went equally

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viral.

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So then I thought, oh my God, I wish I had more ideas, but I don't.

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Like where is this coming from?

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I don't know.

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So it took until April 2021.

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And at that time I was in Taiwan at that time and I was in a quarantine hotel.

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Oh my God.

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Yeah.

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So the thing is that I don't know, like I actually don't know much about how I was in

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the States.

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I was living in Taiwan at the time and I left the country and came back, which was very

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stupid of me because in Asia, things were run differently there and it was, people were

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okay with it.

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Right?

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So you just kind of have to go along.

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So I was in a quarantine hotel, which basically meant they would lock you up for 15 days.

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And they literally like lock the door though and bring your food three times a day.

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And if you needed anything, you'd have to time it with the delivery of food.

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Otherwise you wouldn't get it.

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So you had like a window.

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They would call you in the morning and at night, the reception would call you and ask

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you to tell them your temperature.

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And the police would, when you entered the country, would grab your phone number and

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start GPS tracking your phone so that you don't leave home.

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And the police would also call you twice a day to make sure you didn't leave without

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your phone.

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Dear Lord.

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00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:52,560
Yeah.

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Long story short, I was there for 15 days.

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I was bored out of my mind and I made a comic because I had another idea randomly again.

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00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,720
But this time I was like, okay, look, if I'm going to be doing this, I might as well draw

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it myself.

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00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:16,640
So that was when I drew the first comic with the actual little hotler and he looked pretty

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00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,160
much the same as right now.

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00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:23,080
So he was my first, my first attempt at little hotlers, the way he looks today.

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And I made a comic and that became one of my most liked tweets ever to date.

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00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,560
And it became so popular and it's still, it's the, it's the comic with the little

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00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,840
hotler who's a whole corner and no, he has a whole Bitcoin and he listened to Citadel

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00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:38,840
at the end of the comic.

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I know it well.

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I know it well.

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00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:42,840
Yeah.

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So, yeah, people still reference that today makes me so happy.

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00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:53,720
But yeah, so that was, I would say the kickoff because from that point I said, okay, I need

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to turn this into something where I can actually, I don't rely on my brain randomly coming up

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with things every couple months.

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But then I sat down because I had nothing to do.

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I sat down and just thought up all these comic ideas.

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A lot of them were very lame.

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But as you do something, you get better at it.

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So with time, like I would improve my skill set and my, I don't know, comic, comic, comic

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00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,480
vacation skills.

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00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:28,880
So I did that and it just, it turned from a hobby into a business when I made a plushie

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00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,920
and people started, I just made it for myself.

283
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,920
Again, I just made it for fun because I wanted it.

284
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,400
I posted it and then people started asking, can I get one?

285
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:36,400
Can I get one?

286
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,160
And then I launched a store and then it became a business.

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00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:43,880
And so yeah, it just kind of, it just kind of evolved like that.

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00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:45,960
There's a lot of serendipity in that story.

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00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:52,320
You know, I mean, who knows, maybe if you weren't locked in that hotel room, in that quarantine,

290
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,520
you wouldn't have had like the frustration of boredom where you said, you know what,

291
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,880
let me just dive into this.

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00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,560
It's funny how those things kind of work out.

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00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,000
I mean, I'm sure looking back, it would have been a lot nicer not to be locked in that

294
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,800
hotel room, but still like at least something really incredible came out of it and something

295
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:13,320
that now like is such a, I mean, it's truly an icon that is iconic, you know, and the

296
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:18,400
fact I love that now you're doing all the conference series, like every conference wants

297
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,520
to have their own little hodler.

298
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:27,720
And I think we've got Prague back here, the Bitcoin ski summit and Pacific Bitcoin, I

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00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:28,720
believe.

300
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,440
Or maybe there's a, I think we also have a panties for bitcoins.

301
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,640
But one lying around here somewhere, which is a great one, you know,

302
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:37,640
I love it.

303
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,320
It's one of my favorites.

304
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:40,320
It's so great.

305
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,200
And there's such a very cool Bitcoin company and a great family.

306
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,440
Like it's, it's wonderful to see that.

307
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:47,440
But, but I love this.

308
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,560
And, you know, now it seems that you correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you're

309
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:57,240
at this point where when you see something in the news or, you know, on social media,

310
00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,480
whatever, is that where you're getting a lot of your inspiration now?

311
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,800
Like you see something that is just silly, whether it's about some sort of fiat money

312
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,720
printing or like you've been doing some with, you know, comments about El Salvador recently,

313
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,160
which have been really just spot on.

314
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,360
Is that where you're basically, you know, it's like, okay, you see something where you're

315
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:16,680
like, this is ridiculous.

316
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:18,480
I need to make a comic about this.

317
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,640
Or like, is that kind of the, some of the, the serendipity that happens now?

318
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:23,640
Yeah.

319
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:28,440
I think I feel some pretty similar to how you feel because I see what you tweet.

320
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:33,640
And sometimes you just see the ridiculousness and you're just like, is this real?

321
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,240
This like these, these stories, they write themselves.

322
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:43,200
They actually write themselves a lot of the time with the, like the stuff that happens.

323
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,960
I just kind of draw it.

324
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:51,640
I don't think of anything myself because you have the silly storyline and then you have

325
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:53,720
the really silly punchline.

326
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:54,720
And that's all I do.

327
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,240
I kind of simplify it and give him a silly face.

328
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,160
So a lot of the time these things write themselves.

329
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:03,600
So yeah, I do do that.

330
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:10,840
I look at the news and a lot of people say a lot of stupid things about Bitcoin.

331
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,280
And that deserves some exposure.

332
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,760
And yeah, and then there's some evergreens, right?

333
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,640
Sometimes I just do evergreen comics or some like concept.

334
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,360
I have one that was pretty popular.

335
00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:28,000
It was about the concept of anti fragility because that's kind of hard to explain with

336
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,160
words.

337
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:37,000
And sometimes I try to take something like that and make it like explain it in pictures

338
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,920
or like the, I did that with the Cantillon effect.

339
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,120
Cantillon, Cantillon, I don't know.

340
00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:49,360
I think it can go either way because technically Richard Cantillon or Cantillon was Irish French.

341
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:53,640
So I think technically you can say it either way if I'm not mistaken.

342
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:54,800
So no judgment here.

343
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,000
However you want to pronounce it is my point.

344
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,000
Okay.

345
00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,000
All right.

346
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,200
I just realized I might have never said that word out loud.

347
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,600
Yeah, it's a weird one.

348
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,080
It depends if I'm, how much I'm trying to mock somebody.

349
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:14,600
Like if I'm using the Cantillon effect, it's a fun word.

350
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:15,720
But now I digress.

351
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,400
I digress into mocking the French.

352
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,360
I love the French, but they're fun to mock as well.

353
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:22,360
I'm German.

354
00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:24,440
I'm not allowed to speak up about this.

355
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:25,440
Yes, naturally.

356
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,200
Okay, so next topic.

357
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:28,200
Yeah.

358
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,120
No, I love that though.

359
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:36,640
I mean, I think what you said is so powerful because you're really, the world is so ridiculous

360
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:43,640
already that these, the headlines you see almost seem like they must be satire.

361
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,800
Like this is the point that I'm at right now where I read something and it's, if it didn't

362
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:52,560
have that, you know, New York Times or Wall Street Journal or whatever emblazoned on it,

363
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:57,840
I would think it was satire and perhaps they don't even realize that they are at this point

364
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:04,160
of just absurdity where, I mean, we know that trust in these legacy institutions is at an

365
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:05,160
all time low.

366
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:06,160
It's dying.

367
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:07,160
They're losing their power.

368
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,720
There's a reason that all of these legacy media institutions are firing record numbers

369
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:16,200
of people right now because they don't have the readership they used to because everyone

370
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:17,960
is a journalist now.

371
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,560
Thanks to social media.

372
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:20,560
This is a powerful thing.

373
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:25,560
It's a decentralizing force, but they keep persisting.

374
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:26,560
Actually journalists.

375
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:27,560
It's not a thing.

376
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,480
So they might have to title to title journalists, but what do they do in the writing opinion

377
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:32,480
pieces?

378
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:33,560
It's really researched.

379
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:34,560
Yeah.

380
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,040
Let's let's be honest.

381
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:40,520
It's propaganda, just thinly, thinly veiled propaganda.

382
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,120
And it's such a beautiful thing to be able to hold it.

383
00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:48,440
I think what you do is kind of hold this mirror up to that with this comic where you're just,

384
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,520
you know, again, use their own words against them, show how ridiculous it is by putting

385
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,360
it into this cute little comic with these adorable characters.

386
00:21:55,360 --> 00:22:02,640
But it's it's like it's it's somehow it's really very subversive, though, in a very

387
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:03,640
good way.

388
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:08,200
I mean, because you're able to show how ridiculous what they're doing is not in this aggressive

389
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,520
way where you're saying, you know, fuck these fucking propagandists like, no, no, it's just

390
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,400
here's a cute little comic.

391
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,280
I'm just saying what you said.

392
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:17,680
Look at how ridiculous you are.

393
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,480
You know, you you've got clown makeup all over your faces.

394
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,120
So I love it.

395
00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:27,600
And I think, you know, you're some of your recent Bokele ones, I also like the one that

396
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:33,240
was I think it'll be a very evergreen one about kind of the the last bull market versus

397
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:38,120
this one or the last run up to 69 K versus this one and how it was built on this teetering

398
00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:44,040
tower of FTX and all this other crypto stuff that got associated with Bitcoin.

399
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:48,480
And now you're building this solid foundation with nation state adoption with these ETFs

400
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:56,400
with just less hype, maybe it feels like we're not at peak hype yet, like not even close.

401
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,000
Like this is just like insider hype still.

402
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,120
I don't know.

403
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:05,440
But I'm curious, you know, what do you find that the evergreen ones are typically the

404
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,240
best performing in terms of just the engagement they get?

405
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:13,000
Or is it kind of the ones that are coming out right as something ridiculous is happening?

406
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,200
You see that people just pick up on it, like, or does it does it kind of even out?

407
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:18,800
What's the what's the feel there?

408
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,320
That's even out.

409
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:25,920
I have some evergreens that I know they're going to be like, it always depends on the

410
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:26,920
timing.

411
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:32,520
So sometimes you can post an evergreen and it's badly time timing is so important.

412
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:38,160
But then there's also just some that are like, you can only use them once.

413
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,680
But they they work at that time.

414
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:48,760
For example, when Greenpeace did the the beautiful skull of Satoshi, I did a comic about it and

415
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:54,400
it was super popular, which again, that comic too was just picturing reality.

416
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:59,720
Which this is in many cases, that's all I do.

417
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:07,280
I probably like I simplify it to a point where you can really tell the the the the ridiculousness

418
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,840
of it.

419
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:10,840
So that worked very well.

420
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:17,040
But then yeah, I do have evergreens and I have some that they will always be popular because

421
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,120
they they are timeless.

422
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:26,040
But yeah, the last one I did about the the all time high, too, that was just a random

423
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:27,040
idea.

424
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:32,120
Just also some funny sometimes I think for four days or weeks, I think about a comic idea.

425
00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:37,040
And then I posted and it's like, like, just a dud.

426
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:42,400
Yeah, and sometimes a random we come up with something and it just like it just works.

427
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,200
So that happened with the the all time high comic, actually.

428
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaking of all time highs with Bitcoin making fresh highs seemingly daily in its fiat price.

429
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,480
It's a great time to level up your security.

430
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,440
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431
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:04,280
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432
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433
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434
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435
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436
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,240
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437
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,080
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438
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:28,640
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439
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:33,480
you get 5% off, but you also help support this fucking podcast.

440
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:34,480
So thank you.

441
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,680
I think you're so right about timing like that's something that Karl and I noticed so

442
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:43,400
much when we were we recently like just a couple of days ago made a video, but we haven't

443
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:49,560
been making any as consistently now because we've got the yeah, this you know, the human

444
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,280
to raise and take care of.

445
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,000
But that was the thing that we there would be some that we thought, oh my god, this is

446
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,320
like this is hilarious.

447
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:58,880
This is gonna people are gonna love this.

448
00:25:58,880 --> 00:25:59,880
It's gonna go crazy.

449
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:06,400
And then you post in it just like, wow, like, you know, just really kind of lackluster and

450
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,320
you're like, oh, okay, maybe we missed something.

451
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:13,480
But then other times ones that we spend extremely little time on and just happen to be timed

452
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,160
right, like it happens to capture that the moment.

453
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,840
That's honestly it makes the majority of the difference.

454
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:25,240
And I think that's true with so much of the of just messaging in general of I mean, of

455
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,000
actual like journalism in general, too, like, are you able to capture what's happening in

456
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,920
this moment and tap into what people are feeling right now into their frustrations into what's

457
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,480
exciting them or angering them.

458
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,840
That's how you really get people to jump on board and say like, yes, this captures what

459
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:46,160
I'm feeling right now in a very simplified way that I couldn't exactly express.

460
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:51,200
But now you've done it in a comic or in a video and it's a it's a powerful thing.

461
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,600
Like, I mean, ultimately, every one of those comics is its own meme.

462
00:26:54,600 --> 00:27:00,080
Like it is a way for you to transmit a lot of information in a very condensed format.

463
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,520
I mean, in a format that literally like a child can read and understand and also say

464
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,320
like, you know, mommy, daddy, look at the cute little little hoodler.

465
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,760
Like it's it's quite brilliant there.

466
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:15,160
And I mean, how many if I can ask how many different plushies do you have now?

467
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:20,200
Like, do you know how many different iterations of it you've done?

468
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,200
Okay.

469
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,600
Okay, so a lot.

470
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:26,600
A lot.

471
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,720
Yeah, I'm pretty sure we made over 30 special editions.

472
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:31,720
Yeah.

473
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,960
And I have my own, obviously.

474
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:42,040
And then what also happened over time is that I my so I would create new characters as needed.

475
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,200
And I started with the little hodler and the little no corner.

476
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,000
Those were my first two characters.

477
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:53,840
And then as time went on, on a like, whenever I needed somebody new, I would create somebody

478
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:59,000
new and then they would sort of organically get their own personality like the like a

479
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,280
little printer, for example, who's love the little printer.

480
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:03,280
Great character.

481
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,320
Yeah, he's he's my favorite.

482
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:06,320
One of my favorites.

483
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,120
Sorry, it's like, sorry, not your all my favorites.

484
00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:16,960
No, I he's one of my favorites because he just sort of had this, this personality that

485
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,840
became a thing where he's just like being abused by the Fed.

486
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:26,880
And he was just kind of doing his job, but he's too agreeable to speak up.

487
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,600
And I just kind of happened.

488
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:34,680
And because of that, I started it developed into this universe.

489
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,720
And then obviously now I'm working on making each of them into a plushie, starting with

490
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:39,840
the most popular ones.

491
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,760
So I had the doing this like a little Satoshi, a little printer.

492
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:53,240
And we had of course, we have the Bitcoin, we have Kelly, who's extremely popular.

493
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:54,440
And then a bunch of others.

494
00:28:54,440 --> 00:29:00,920
One day I'll make the little no corner, but maybe last, you know, no corners last to the

495
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,920
party anyway.

496
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:08,760
Well, speaking of Buchela, I want to because I could talk about little hodlers all day

497
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:09,760
long.

498
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,280
So I have to give myself.

499
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,520
Can I just say like, I feel so.

500
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:20,920
Like the way you interpret and describe the little hodler, nobody has ever described it

501
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:21,920
like that to me.

502
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,480
That is one to one.

503
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,160
What I wanted to achieve, like it feels so happy.

504
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,600
I kind of want to record that and like, I don't know, put it on my website.

505
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,520
I'll send it right to you.

506
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,600
I'm happy to have it be a testimonial.

507
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:42,040
Because I really, I really do think that it's weaned within Bitcoin.

508
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,360
You know, Bitcoin doesn't care, right?

509
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,080
But Bitcoiners care.

510
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,360
Bitcoiners care a lot.

511
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:54,120
And I think that different Bitcoiners find different ways to express how much Bitcoin

512
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,640
and this monetary revolution means to them.

513
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,160
And you have found a really powerful way of expressing that.

514
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,880
And ultimately, I think it's a great example that you set for Bitcoiners everywhere who

515
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,280
are thinking, you know, I want to maybe they don't code like and they're thinking I want

516
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,800
to be able to do something, you know, I can't code.

517
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,840
Is it going to be worthwhile for me to learn to code and then to try to contribute in some

518
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:16,840
way?

519
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,200
Most likely not at this point, you know, but if you want to do that more power to you

520
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,320
people, but there are so many ways that you can contribute into getting Bitcoin into the

521
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:31,800
greater consciousness and, you know, find something that you can also enjoy doing.

522
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,440
Like I assume that you still very much enjoy creating these comics, creating these plushies

523
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,000
because like they seem to be full of that joy.

524
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:45,040
Like they're happy little things, but they shine that mirror back onto the broken system

525
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,400
that we have.

526
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,080
And so if you're listening out there, it's like, find something that allows you to help

527
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,480
shine that mirror back on our broken system.

528
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,400
Because ultimately, like it all comes down to memes, right?

529
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,760
Like it all comes down to how can we make this really, really complex thing, which is

530
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,240
Bitcoin or the fiat monetary system?

531
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,720
How can we distill that into something that anyone can understand and they don't have to

532
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,320
be a PhD economist or computer scientist?

533
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:16,360
Although sometimes those most educated in that field have some great difficulty understanding

534
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,360
Bitcoin, but that's a different story.

535
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:24,080
But what you've done is a really great, I think, case study for people to look at and

536
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:29,720
say, okay, I, you know, Lena made comics and ended up building a business out of these

537
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:30,720
comics.

538
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,840
And at the same time, these comics go viral and are seen by people not just within Bitcoin,

539
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,080
but outside of Bitcoin, which is ultimately what we want, right?

540
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:43,680
Like your innocent little comic has a better chance of going viral than somebody who is

541
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:49,520
you know, ranting on a five hour Bitcoin podcast about how the state is, you know, just going

542
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,320
through his totalitarian power grab.

543
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,720
Like certain things reach outside the bubble and certain things are made for those within

544
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:57,720
the bubble.

545
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,240
And I think the little hodler is a little bit of both people within the bubble love

546
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:07,200
it and people outside the bubble might actually drink in some of what, you know, it's putting

547
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:08,200
out there.

548
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:15,040
So I think it's a, it's a beautiful synergy there.

549
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,040
Please do, please do.

550
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,880
I'll send it all to you.

551
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,720
But if you're good with it, I'd like to switch gears a little bit.

552
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:30,720
So, and I'd love to talk because you brought up the Bukele little hodler, which love his

553
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,880
little hat, you know, it's a, it's great.

554
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:40,840
You have recently moved to El Salvador, you moved from Germany, that's quite a large cultural

555
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,180
shift.

556
00:32:42,180 --> 00:32:46,560
Can you talk just a little bit about kind of what made you finally decide to pull that

557
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:52,280
trigger and move, you know, truly across the world to a completely different culture to

558
00:32:52,280 --> 00:33:01,480
a place that is, has had quite a both happy recently, but very sad and tragic history

559
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,680
before a few years ago, but is now on this up and up.

560
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,640
What was your moment where you said, you know what, I'm going to, I'm just going to pick

561
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,760
up everything and I'm going to move to El Salvador and start there.

562
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,560
Well, to be fair, I was already not living in Germany anymore, actually.

563
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:18,560
Okay, fair enough.

564
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:24,160
I would say, I'm, yeah, I would say I'm German and I moved to El Salvador, which is true,

565
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,720
but I actually left Germany 10 years ago.

566
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:34,240
So I finished, I finished high school and then I left at the time I left because I don't

567
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:41,120
like looking back probably, like I had some like dissatisfaction, but I just generally

568
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,120
at the time I just felt like I wanted to go out into the world.

569
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:51,800
I spent a lot of the last 10 years in Asia, I lived in Southeast Asia and East Asia, Japan,

570
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,200
Taiwan, Malaysia, Philippines, like that corner of the world.

571
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:01,480
And when I, like right before I moved to El Salvador, I was living between Malta and

572
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,080
Turkey.

573
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:12,240
And I, so El Salvador was on my radar because of the Bitcoin law.

574
00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:17,080
So about two years ago when that happened, obviously, like that was the first time, like

575
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:21,360
I was, I'm almost ashamed to say that, but that was the first time I heard about El Salvador.

576
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,040
So I didn't know anything about the country at the time.

577
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,920
And then suddenly it popped up everywhere, which shows you what a brilliant move that

578
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:37,040
was, even just in the sense of getting exposure and sort of switching up the headlines that

579
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,360
the country would get on the world stage.

580
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:46,800
But yeah, so I did some comics about it at the time because the great inspiration for

581
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:51,560
a comic, literally my first comic about it was the reaction of the world to El Salvador

582
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,680
adopting Bitcoin as legal tender, being like, oh, but that's such a small country.

583
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,280
That doesn't even, that doesn't matter.

584
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:58,640
That doesn't do anything.

585
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,080
Again, it wrote itself.

586
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:01,400
I made a comic out of it.

587
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,240
And that too is one of my most popular comics.

588
00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:09,720
And that comic back then earned me the presidential follow.

589
00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:13,880
So yeah, that was pretty cool.

590
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:20,440
And so that's how he became aware of the little hotler.

591
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:27,600
So a couple months later, Bokehler was coming to Turkey for a state visit.

592
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:32,000
And he was, that was around that time everybody was like, oh, he's gonna orange pill Erdogan.

593
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,680
He's gonna make him like start Bitcoin mining.

594
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:35,680
Obviously not.

595
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,480
But you know, we were hopeful.

596
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:43,240
So he actually asked me if he could get a hotler.

597
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:47,600
So when he came to, yeah, he wanted one was like, what?

598
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,600
But yeah, so he came to, he came to Istanbul.

599
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,480
And that's where I first met him and I brought him a hotler.

600
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,920
So I had a chance like, I have a bit of a conversation.

601
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,480
And at that point I decided, okay, I have to see El Salvador.

602
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,720
But for some reason after that is to took me a year and a half.

603
00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:08,720
Like, I don't know, like, I don't think about it.

604
00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:10,160
Those are like lifelong regrets.

605
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,440
But like a year and a half later, I made it.

606
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,800
I made it to El Salvador.

607
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:24,040
And I just like, I can never, like sometimes I listen to myself talk about El Salvador.

608
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:29,320
And I'm like, okay, like that just sounds so like cheesy and dreamy and like head up

609
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:30,320
in the clouds.

610
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,560
I just don't know how to better communicate this.

611
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,880
Because from the moment you set foot here and everybody who comes here is going to tell

612
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,880
you this, you feel the difference.

613
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:41,360
And I had the same thing.

614
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,480
So I first came here in August last year.

615
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:51,600
And I just went around the country and I had some, like, I knew some people here who would

616
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:56,000
like immediately they were there to help me and they took me around the country and showed

617
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,000
me all the things.

618
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,760
It's really great, extremely hospitable country.

619
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:12,200
But the one main difference between El Salvador and any other country I've seen is the optimism.

620
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,400
There's optimism here.

621
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:20,200
People are looking into the future with hope, with plans, with visions.

622
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,800
People will tell you this country, you know, things are way better here than they used

623
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:29,440
to be versus, of course, like, of course they would say that.

624
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:34,280
Whereas if you go to Germany, for example, people will tell you the opposite.

625
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:39,000
That sounds like a simple thing, but it makes a world of a difference.

626
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:45,960
So here you feel that there is a, this country has regained its collective identity and they

627
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,480
are proud to show their country, they are proud to show the things they have, the volcanoes,

628
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,440
the surf, the pupusas, the Bitcoin law even, you know.

629
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,040
So you really feel that.

630
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:05,160
And as a big speaking, as a Bitcoiner coming here, another thing I felt very strongly is

631
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:10,240
that I'm welcome here, that I don't get the side eye for being a Bitcoiner, for having

632
00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:12,000
a Bitcoin business.

633
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,400
Actually this country wants Bitcoiners to come here.

634
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,720
And so of course, Bitcoiners want to come here.

635
00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:22,360
I don't want to be working against the official narrative of my government all the time.

636
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,960
That's very tiring and exhausting.

637
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:31,080
And if like the moment you experience the opposite, you don't want to go back.

638
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:35,520
This is what happened to me and it's what happened to a lot of other people.

639
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:40,320
That's why there's so many Bitcoiners here and growing.

640
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:45,400
I love that and I've had the pleasure of going to El Salvador twice.

641
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,520
Karl and I went twice in 2022.

642
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:54,680
So we went for the first time, I think in July into August and then thought, oh, well

643
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,240
we can't wait to come back.

644
00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:59,280
This was because truly you're right.

645
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:05,960
It's an amazing thing when you see a country where across the board people have hope.

646
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,080
They see that there's meaningful progress happening, not just politicians promising

647
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,560
to do something and then never doing it.

648
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,360
And then the next election, they promise a different set of things and they never do

649
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:16,720
it again.

650
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:20,280
And you go back and forth between at least in America between our two parties of each

651
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,400
one blaming the last guy for the problems this time.

652
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,480
But saying, look, he's fixed everything and now everything's all fine.

653
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:28,480
And it never is.

654
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:33,480
And because our base layer, our monetary layer is broken and it's just breaking everything

655
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:34,480
else.

656
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,920
But we were thinking, gosh, we cannot wait to go back.

657
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,360
And then we got invited to adopting Bitcoin that same year.

658
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,920
And so we said, well, it's only a couple months later, but we've got to go back.

659
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,440
And so then we got the chance to go back again.

660
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,360
And again, just a wonderful experience.

661
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:56,440
And that is a great conference too, just because again, so many builders are there.

662
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:02,480
So many people from El Salvador are there because they make it very easy for Salvadorans to

663
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,080
go to that conference.

664
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,120
And again, you have this beautiful feeling of hope.

665
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:13,800
I mean, El Salvador is basically established itself as this Bitcoin mecca for the world.

666
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,560
And it's really quite brilliant.

667
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:22,920
I mean, to say nothing of dropping the crime rate from being one of the highest in the

668
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:28,680
world to, though, I think the lowest in Latin America, which in a couple of years, which

669
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:29,680
is incredible.

670
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:30,680
Yeah.

671
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:38,080
I mean, it's like, I, when we went there, I mean, I, I've, Carla too, you know, because

672
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:42,560
we got back and you still get the questions of, oh, did you feel, did you feel safe?

673
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:43,560
It's like, yeah.

674
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,480
It felt a lot safer than walking around Chicago at night.

675
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,480
That's for sure.

676
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:54,640
And but people still, I think it takes so long for them to get their preconceived notions

677
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,460
out of their head.

678
00:40:56,460 --> 00:41:01,440
Because if they heard about El Salvador before a couple of years ago, it wasn't for things

679
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:07,280
like crime rate dropping, tourism going through the roof and these, this crazy new Bitcoin

680
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:08,280
law.

681
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,960
It was because people were horrible, horrible things were happening there.

682
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,480
But that sticks in people's heads.

683
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:21,120
And I find it, and I'm curious of your perception of this now being there on the ground, so

684
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:28,860
much of the Western media, European media and, and American media is so, so strangely

685
00:41:28,860 --> 00:41:32,280
critical of the progress that El Salvador is making.

686
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,880
It feels like they really don't want.

687
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:36,040
Yeah, I know.

688
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,040
So weird.

689
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:41,120
It feels like they really don't want El Salvador to succeed.

690
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,360
It feels like they really want El Salvador to fail.

691
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,560
And they, I mean, which is a weird thing to want because El Salvador failing would mean

692
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:54,720
a regression back to people getting murdered left and right and wildly corrupt government

693
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:55,840
and gangs.

694
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,960
So that's a weird thing to have this sick wish for.

695
00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:06,840
But somehow that is seemingly the wish of many in the Western so-called developed world.

696
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,840
What is your what is the read of, you know, you are now on the ground there.

697
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,720
You are living there.

698
00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:19,880
What's, you know, what do you say to the, these journalists quote that are publishing

699
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:24,720
just outright propaganda and kind of just somehow begging for El Salvador to fail begging

700
00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:29,120
for it seems, you know, Bukele to fail.

701
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:34,440
What's your experience on the ground and how do you, you know, how do you react to that?

702
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,120
Nobody takes him seriously anymore.

703
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,080
They've been doing this for over five years now.

704
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:40,080
Oh, yeah.

705
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,640
Well, they even did it before he became president.

706
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:49,480
And in the beginning, it was easier to push the narrative because you could as a journalist

707
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:55,360
or as a big media outlet, you can throw things out there and see what sticks.

708
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,080
And it's very hard to prove a negative.

709
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,440
So they went from the very beginning go, oh, look at that guy.

710
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:01,440
He's a dictator.

711
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:02,520
Now, what's he going to do?

712
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,880
Like, all he can do is do his job and then show the receipts.

713
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:08,360
And that's what he did.

714
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:14,000
And then, you know, now five years later, they were really down silly for still trying

715
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,760
to push that narrative and the more time passes.

716
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,720
So time really is on his side here.

717
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:25,200
But he had to, and he's still dealing with these, with these accusations and with these

718
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:26,200
stupid headlines.

719
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:34,720
But by now, they, they have little to no power because he just had, he has the statistics

720
00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:37,400
now he has the numbers, he has the receipts.

721
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,640
And so nobody takes them seriously anymore.

722
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,560
The problem is, as you said before, it's very hard to get rid of your preconceived notions.

723
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:49,240
So here on the ground in El Salvador, nobody cares what the mainstream media abroad says.

724
00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:51,680
It's like, dude, like you've probably never been here.

725
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,840
You probably got like an assignment from above.

726
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:59,720
And we all kind of know what, who sits above.

727
00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:04,240
So you just kind of do your thing and we don't care.

728
00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:08,960
But let's say back in Europe, for example, in the US there's a shift.

729
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:13,280
Very, very strongly you can, you can see that happen, which is very interesting in Europe,

730
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:20,040
parts of Europe too, but still in Europe, the, these, these, these headlines and these

731
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:27,240
nonsense narratives hold more power, probably because it's further away and people know

732
00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:34,000
less about how things are run here and especially in Germany.

733
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,000
I always talk about Germany because I'm German.

734
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:37,000
I love my country.

735
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:38,400
I just don't love how it's run.

736
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,840
I just want to put that out there.

737
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:41,840
Yeah.

738
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:51,960
So, especially in Germany, our, our state media is very, very, very prejudiced against El

739
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,760
Salvador and these, these things stick with you even if you don't want them to.

740
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,280
That's very unfortunate.

741
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,120
And it happens subconsciously.

742
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:04,440
I noticed it, the same happened to me, even though I saw myself, you know, a very don't

743
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:10,160
trust, verify, Bitcoin or before it first came here, I thought I had this like a bit

744
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,640
of a gut feeling where it's like, okay, is it actually safe?

745
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:13,640
Like, I don't know.

746
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:14,640
Like never be.

747
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:20,000
So you come here and it's safer than German cities, which again, you couldn't, you knew

748
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,800
it's hard to, to, to believe that if you haven't seen it.

749
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:32,560
But so nobody, nobody will have a brain bias and stuff, but they will keep pushing it so

750
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:39,840
long as they can uphold at least some of that illusion because they so desperately don't

751
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,400
want somebody to show that it can be done differently.

752
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,840
There's so many things going on here.

753
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:54,120
One of them just being like this colonialist mindset that you don't want a country that

754
00:45:54,120 --> 00:46:01,360
was under the control of foreign powers for decades to suddenly be independent and show,

755
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,840
look, we can do this ourselves.

756
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,480
And this is what's happening in El Salvador, which is amazing.

757
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:13,800
And what Boquera has done has inspired first the neighboring countries, now the Latin American

758
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:23,240
continent, even the US and now parts of Europe, which makes him like, it's an amazing legacy

759
00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:25,880
that he's building.

760
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,920
But certain people don't like that.

761
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:34,760
So, you know, and these certain people control much of the media.

762
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:40,280
And so that's why you get those headlines, even though nobody believes them anymore.

763
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:44,600
Well, you know, I think it's so interesting.

764
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:54,200
A lot of the Western power structures kind of need Boquera and El Salvador to fail because

765
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,680
if he is successful, which I think he has already proven that he has been successful

766
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,080
and is continuing to do so.

767
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:05,040
And you can see that by his approval rating being the highest in the world or one of the

768
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:06,800
highest in the world.

769
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:11,640
It's hard to hard to argue with that, and you can see that if you actually go to El Salvador

770
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,560
and talk to people because that's one of the things that Carl and I did.

771
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:19,600
And this was in in 2022, it was a little, you know, I guess a little under the Bitcoin

772
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:21,600
law was 2021, right?

773
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,200
September 2021, I think.

774
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:28,560
So we went there a little under a year after that for the first time and just ask you,

775
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,920
you know, what do you think about this Bitcoin law?

776
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:31,920
What do you think about Boquela?

777
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,680
And at that point, some people were fairly ambivalent to the Bitcoin law.

778
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:41,200
It was, you know, like it's fine or, you know, some people, you know, wow, I think it's

779
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,080
great, you know, this is wonderful.

780
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,480
Other people saying, oh, you know, it could have maybe been rolled out a little bit better,

781
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:51,120
but I think it's a it's a pretty good idea, you know, okay, fair, you know, people were

782
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,400
free to felt free to speak their minds clearly.

783
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,560
But then you ask them, you know, what do you think of Boquela?

784
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,760
And I did not hear anyone granted.

785
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,120
I didn't talk to every person in the country.

786
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,360
This is just my small sample set.

787
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,640
I know, but I but I did everyone I talked to said he's taking our country in the right

788
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:09,840
direction and we have hope for once.

789
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:15,360
That was the the the synopsis of just about every single conversation that we had there.

790
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:16,840
And that's a really powerful thing.

791
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:18,760
Hope is really powerful.

792
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:27,320
But the the entrenched Western power structures, they need to they need to have fear and despair

793
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,240
in order to stay in power.

794
00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:34,640
They need to keep the populace afraid of the other afraid of what dangers might happen

795
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:40,160
if the wrong candidate is elected, what might happen if the, you know, the wrong law is

796
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:41,680
passed.

797
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:49,080
And they also just refuse to do basic things for their citizens like have, you know, for

798
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:54,360
instance, secure borders or, I don't know, take care of crime.

799
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,360
Like we have amazing America's of I again, I love America.

800
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,400
Same as you with Jeremy, I love I love my country.

801
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,320
I don't like how it's run.

802
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,920
And I love, you know, my my countrymen as well.

803
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:14,040
And it's so sad to see this as governments bloat and bloat and bloat and are still just

804
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:18,200
become less and less effective at actually doing what they're supposed to do, which is

805
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,840
protect the private property of their citizens.

806
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:22,440
That's that is the ultimate.

807
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,800
It's the only reason the government really exists is to enforce the law.

808
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,880
And the only real purpose of the law is to organize for the collective defense of private

809
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:30,960
property.

810
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:36,120
And if you can't do that, if you can't keep people safe from being plundered, either by

811
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:41,640
by criminals or by the criminals that are writing the laws, well, then you've just that's a failed

812
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:42,640
government.

813
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:43,640
That's a failed state.

814
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:48,320
And so I think where you see, you know, Bokele and his, his methods were certainly controversial,

815
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:53,040
you know, rounding up people with with gang tattoos on their faces and people are saying,

816
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,040
how could they possibly be gang members?

817
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:59,920
And I'm sure there were definitely people who were probably wrongfully imprisoned.

818
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:03,800
And I'm sure that I've also seen recent pressure leases that they're actually working through

819
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,440
the legal system to try and remedy that.

820
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:07,440
Great.

821
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,960
You know, certainly no government is perfect in the US doesn't have a leg to stand on when

822
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:12,280
it comes to criticizing that.

823
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:17,440
But if he can do that, if he can make his country safe, then what does that say about

824
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:22,840
all the other governments who refuse to do so, who refuse to protect their citizens?

825
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:27,400
Because if they can do it in El Salvador, a country that's been under the boot of Western

826
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:33,080
powers and the boot of the IMF for so long and decided just to make a big change, well,

827
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:34,600
then why can't we do that in America?

828
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,360
Then people start to ask questions and asking questions is very dangerous.

829
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:39,360
You don't want that.

830
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:40,360
That yet.

831
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:44,280
I don't know.

832
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:49,520
It's it's it's amazing to see the the Bitcoin exodus happening to El Salvador, though.

833
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:55,240
And I think another great proof of El Salvador going in the right direction is native Salvadorans

834
00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:57,040
are moving back home.

835
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,920
They're not trying to escape El Salvador to go to the US.

836
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:05,560
They're trying to escape from the US back to El Salvador and not like in the 90s when

837
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:10,280
Bill Clinton deported tons of gang members back to El Salvador.

838
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:11,280
Very different from that.

839
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:15,720
These are people who escaped the violence that are now coming back home and people like yourself

840
00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:20,720
who are finding a new home there and eating lots of papuces, I hope.

841
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:21,720
It's them.

842
00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:27,360
There's so bad for you, but they're so good.

843
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,080
They're dangerously good.

844
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:34,000
I want to say I'm going to get back to the important part in a minute, which is to throw

845
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,000
in there.

846
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:40,920
They they have so we all know the papuces, but generally something that you'll get a

847
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:45,680
lot here is, oh my God, how they call it typical, I think, which means you get like

848
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:47,720
a steak, for example.

849
00:51:47,720 --> 00:51:53,560
And then they have garnish on the side, which is usually beans and rice and plantain and

850
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,520
tortillas and cheese and salsa.

851
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,040
And oh my God, I'm getting hungry.

852
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,320
It's really, really, really good.

853
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,880
And that is actually really good for you too.

854
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:10,920
It's probably harder to market this as a specialty dish or like a signature dish for the country,

855
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,080
but this is really good and undervalued.

856
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:23,080
But yes, so everything you said, back to the important stuff, is very, very true.

857
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:34,400
And it's yeah, it's so sad that somebody doing their job is so dangerous to the powers that

858
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:35,560
beat.

859
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:38,560
It's such a shame.

860
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:44,840
And that is interesting to see because okay, this is so good at communicating what he's

861
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:45,840
doing.

862
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:47,080
He's really good at marketing.

863
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:53,320
Obviously, he ran a marketing agency before he like in his previous life.

864
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:58,360
And he like from the beginning, he was using social media, right?

865
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:00,560
And he knew how to appeal to the people.

866
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:05,240
Like his social media game is like right up there, which is part of the reason why it's

867
00:53:05,240 --> 00:53:11,840
so good at getting the point across and then if you look at, are chances are in Germany

868
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:13,320
have a Twitter?

869
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,680
Probably, like but it's run by some intern, right?

870
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:22,480
Or like sometimes I see what Biden tweets, like he doesn't tweet obviously.

871
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:28,240
But you know, so that's a huge difference and that's obviously the small part of the

872
00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:29,240
thing.

873
00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:35,280
But he's reaching very, very far and that's what makes him, part of what makes him makes

874
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:39,280
him a threat in the eye of those who would rather not have the world know that things

875
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:41,640
can be run differently.

876
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:47,360
So they try to, they try to focus on like whatever they can find that they could use

877
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:48,360
against him.

878
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,440
So for the longest time, they'd be going, oh, you're centralizing power.

879
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,040
You're such a dictator.

880
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,840
What was happening is that he was fighting against his own government, right?

881
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:03,560
So he became president in 2019 and up until they had parliamentary elections in 2021,

882
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:09,800
he had no like he, whenever he tried to push for something in parliament, parliament, which

883
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:16,120
was like heavily controlled by the opposition, the two, the big parties that had run the

884
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:21,160
country for decades prior, would just try to block everything to make him look bad,

885
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:27,160
to keep the status quo, because those were the administrations previously that had heavily

886
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:33,760
benefited from collaboration with gangs, from corruption, and also from, you know, using

887
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,840
for an aid for their own benefit and disappearing money.

888
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:44,600
So when he went in one parliamentary elections and then swapped out the Supreme Court judges,

889
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,200
for example, then of course from, from overseas, he would get an outcry like, oh my God, he's

890
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:49,200
a dictator.

891
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:53,520
What he was doing is make governance more efficient.

892
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:57,680
That's what he's been doing this entire time, once he's been doing since.

893
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:03,920
So for example, what they did with the new, with the latest election is they shrink, they

894
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:10,600
shrunk the number of municipalities to streamline governance further.

895
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:18,400
So you see here, sort of a shrinking of a government, rather than a bloating of government,

896
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:23,320
which is good, but you know, we have to sell it as something bad because everything he

897
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,480
does is bad.

898
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:29,360
So they try to focus on these things, try to make him look as bad as possible, but it's

899
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:34,000
just not working anymore because you can see the results of what they're doing here.

900
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,520
Those are really, really good results.

901
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:44,000
And the interesting thing, or another interesting thing that I can see too, is the reaction

902
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,240
from the population here.

903
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:50,400
So another thing you're not supposed to do is talk to the locals like you and Carla did,

904
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:55,520
because how dare you, you must read the headlines, you must not listen to the people whose opinion

905
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:58,160
really matters.

906
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:08,280
They speak, A, they speak very well of Bukirre, and B, they speak in a very reflective manner,

907
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:15,760
which is, it's rare because in, let's look at the US for example.

908
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:22,280
The US government and both parties, oh, you have this thing that you always tweet, there's

909
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:26,000
no red, there's no blue, there's the state and then there's you, right?

910
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:27,000
I love that.

911
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:28,000
Perfect.

912
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:33,880
Yeah, like this is so true, because both sides will try to put out polarizing statements

913
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:37,760
to just, everything's polarizing in politics.

914
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:42,000
Politics divides these days, divides the people.

915
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:46,760
And so of course, you shape your audience with the way you speak to them and the things

916
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,720
you try to indoctrinate them with.

917
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:52,920
Everybody uses propaganda, but this is the kind of propaganda that you see in most of

918
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:57,120
the world in the US, and we also see it in the EU, we also see it in Germany.

919
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:02,280
We might have more parties, but like it's getting very, it's getting very left right

920
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:03,920
these days.

921
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:14,360
In Salvador, from the beginning, this administration spoke to its people in a very logical, rational

922
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:19,920
way with common sense, with no left-right division.

923
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:27,920
They do things to make life better, that they don't go and promise the moon and the stars

924
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,160
and rainbows and butterflies.

925
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:35,360
They said, for example, when Bucchia introduced his territorial control plan, which is how

926
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:39,560
they got rid of the gangs, he said, look, this is going to be really difficult and hard,

927
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:44,000
and our GDP might suffer because this was a parallel state, basically.

928
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:49,360
But we're going to do it, you know, and they did it.

929
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:54,440
And people react the same way to it, because this is what they're being told.

930
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:58,240
They see, okay, our government uses common sense, so I will react to them with common

931
00:57:58,240 --> 00:57:59,240
sense.

932
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,320
And I will tell you, yeah, things are good, some things are bad.

933
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:06,800
You know, I hope they fix this, I hope they fix that, but they've already done this, and

934
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:08,240
I see they're working on that.

935
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:10,640
Maybe this didn't work so well, but that worked well.

936
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:15,440
And we understand that they're trying their best, and we look at things in a reflective

937
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:17,760
manner, which is what you want.

938
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:23,440
But it's not, I can't even blame the people in Germany, for example, or in the US.

939
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:27,920
I can't even really blame people, because if you're just being indoctrinated with polarizing

940
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:31,880
like, battle language, what are you going to do?

941
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,200
Like, of course, that sticks with you, right?

942
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:35,200
So sad.

943
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:36,200
It is.

944
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:43,640
And it's honestly just such the way that political structures are in the US or in the

945
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:50,400
EU, it all comes down to promoting really short-term thinking.

946
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:58,800
You know, it on it from a, to use safe it ends, you know, low time preference versus high time preference.

947
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:04,920
The either two party or multi party or whatever it may be that we see across the Western world

948
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,480
and throughout Europe.

949
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:08,960
It's very high time preference.

950
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:13,800
It's always next election, next election, doesn't actually matter what we get done,

951
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:18,480
as long as we can have enough things on our checklist that show, look, at least we kept

952
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:22,200
this campaign promise, but the only reason we couldn't do the other things was because

953
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:23,360
of the other guys.

954
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:27,360
And if only, if only they weren't so evil, then we would, you know, everything would

955
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:29,920
be sunshine and daisies.

956
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:35,160
And this happens just every election cycle over and over again.

957
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,040
And there's never actually meaningful change.

958
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:41,800
Things just start getting or continue getting progressively a little bit worse and a little

959
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:46,400
bit worse while your money buys less and less and less.

960
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:51,520
And what I, at least my external read and the read from, you know, being in El Salvador

961
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:57,080
a couple of times was there is more long term thinking taking place.

962
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:00,960
Not that he's going to try and crown himself a dictator for a thousand years as some in

963
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:05,800
the Western media might have you believe, but that this isn't about, he's not doing

964
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,040
things to try and figure out how he's going to win the next election.

965
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:12,040
He's doing things because they're going to be good for his country.

966
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:16,040
And clearly that worked with the, you know, he was just reelected.

967
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:23,000
So clearly just what doing actually good things and keeping promises and making life better

968
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,200
is actually keeps people really happy.

969
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:29,160
Who would have thought that that would, the formula was so simple.

970
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:34,640
Just do what you say you're going to do, make people's lives better and don't promise things

971
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:38,440
that you're never going to do just because they sound good at the moment and they're

972
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:41,920
a good sound bite on that debate stage or something.

973
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:45,240
So I really think so much of it is that short term versus long term thinking.

974
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:50,760
It seems to me that he's trying to set El Salvador up not just for himself to get reelected

975
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:56,840
in a couple of years, but for that country to continue lifting itself up and becoming

976
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:58,680
an economic powerhouse.

977
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:03,400
It's a small country, but people around the world are talking about that small country

978
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:05,920
now and it's, it's for good reasons.

979
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:08,840
It's because their tourism went through the roof.

980
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,400
Their GDP is up.

981
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:17,120
All of the fear mongering and the FUD really about their, you know, Bukele's Bitcoin bet

982
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:22,080
like, whoa, it's, you know, when Bitcoin was low, it was really easy to say that.

983
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:27,240
Now it's not so easy to, to make fun of, you know, Bukele for his, his bet.

984
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:33,400
It starts to look like a very good investment in the long term economic health of his country.

985
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:34,400
It's nice to see.

986
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:35,400
You know,

987
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:37,400
That's not a way to spin that.

988
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:38,400
Don't worry.

989
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:39,400
I'm sure.

990
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:40,400
Yeah.

991
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:45,880
Well, you know, if he, I mean, clearly the IMF is no fans of him because they can, he

992
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:52,880
now is making it so that he does not in the future need to take their strings attached

993
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:58,960
money, which I think is, is wonderful because they have certainly done a great deal of harm

994
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:00,280
around the world.

995
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:05,440
And really what it is it comes down to, it comes down to trying to, the IMF basically

996
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:10,520
exists to try and hide the inflation that is rampant in Western developed countries

997
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:16,040
by exporting that inflation to underdeveloped countries and making sure they stay underdeveloped

998
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:19,600
so they can't actually pick themselves up and become successful because they don't want

999
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:21,720
them successful, then they'd make their own decisions.

1000
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:25,360
And again, you can't have people asking questions and making their own decision.

1001
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:27,720
That's very, very bad for business.

1002
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:29,800
Is the curateer or something?

1003
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:32,360
Like, are you safe saying these things?

1004
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:33,360
I think so.

1005
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:34,360
I, it's America.

1006
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:35,360
So I have.

1007
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:42,600
Let's just say I have the number of guns that I have is more than zero.

1008
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:48,880
And I, I also like to, I like to hide weapons around my house, which might, might seem a

1009
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:52,160
little bit crazy, but I enjoy it.

1010
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:56,080
So yes, I'm make a little holler with like a little pocket or something.

1011
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:57,600
Oh, no, that's an idea.

1012
01:02:57,600 --> 01:02:58,600
Okay.

1013
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:01,920
I'm going to have to cut and cut this part out just so people don't know that, you know,

1014
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:04,160
don't look in the little, there's no guns in the little holler.

1015
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:08,480
I swear they're just innocent now.

1016
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:15,920
But it's, it's really nice to hear this perspective because again, I haven't been back since 2022.

1017
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:20,520
And so from the first time you came, you visited El Salvador to when you decided to move, how

1018
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:22,960
long was that, that timeline?

1019
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:27,000
I came in August and I moved in October.

1020
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:28,000
Oh, wow.

1021
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,520
So you, you just said, let's do it.

1022
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:31,520
Yeah.

1023
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,080
But that's sort of like, I do, I've been doing that my whole life.

1024
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:40,280
Like I don't really, I, I don't recommend it, but I don't like, I've been faring pretty

1025
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:41,280
well with it.

1026
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:44,440
And the thing is that I've moved country many times.

1027
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:47,200
So I lived in many places.

1028
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:48,980
Sometimes it was for work.

1029
01:03:48,980 --> 01:03:50,520
Sometimes it was for other reasons.

1030
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:52,120
Sometimes it was out of curiosity.

1031
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:55,760
And then I just love traveling too.

1032
01:03:55,760 --> 01:04:03,920
But El Salvador, I came here because of, I don't even like, I can't name a million rational

1033
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:09,760
reasons, but then it also just, there has to be, the chemistry has to be right.

1034
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:14,520
And I just, so I get, sometimes I get comments, actually not sometimes, I often get comments

1035
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:20,080
where people are like, oh, but what if you move now and then things, things go downhill

1036
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:21,080
again?

1037
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:24,720
Like, I don't know, Bukele leaves office and then things go worse or whatever.

1038
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:27,080
Yeah, sure, you can think that way.

1039
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:30,360
But then you're, you're planning for a collision course.

1040
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:33,560
So what I want to do, this is, it goes both ways.

1041
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:38,000
So in one way, this country welcomes us.

1042
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:39,480
This country wants us.

1043
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:43,520
Like I've tried to get visas in countries that made it so hard.

1044
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:49,080
My own country makes it extremely hard for you to, to move there.

1045
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:53,240
Unless you're from a certain, from a certain region of the world.

1046
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:57,960
I don't want to, so it's the same, we have the same immigration policy in America.

1047
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:00,360
It's very hard to move to America legally.

1048
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:06,120
It's very easy to move to America illegally, which is, it took Carla 13 years to become

1049
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:13,440
a citizen here with a father who came as a communist refugee, like, or I should say

1050
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:17,960
communist defector, like fleeing some shit.

1051
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:23,160
You know, communism's a bitch, turns out, not, not a picnic.

1052
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:28,880
And, you know, I'm curious if I can ask you, because I think, again, a lot of people are

1053
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:33,080
probably finding themselves at this place where maybe they're unhappy with what's the

1054
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:34,680
direction their own country is heading.

1055
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:38,160
Maybe they're feeling like they need a change.

1056
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:41,160
Maybe they're Bitcoiners and they're feeling like, you know what, I want to go somewhere

1057
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:48,880
where I feel I'm, I'm welcome in a country that is really having a Bitcoin strategy at

1058
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:51,640
not just the local level, because that's where things started and I'll solve it.

1059
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:53,880
It started with Alzante with Bitcoin Beach.

1060
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:58,040
It started from the bottom, but then now it's coming down from the top as well, hopefully

1061
01:05:58,040 --> 01:05:59,760
meeting somewhere in the middle.

1062
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:04,000
But what's your, what's your message to people who are maybe, maybe they're thinking about

1063
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:07,440
it, maybe they're, they've been toying with the idea.

1064
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:11,560
What would you say to those people as kind of based on your experience, like, I don't

1065
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:16,440
know, what's, what message do you have for folks who are saying, should I, should I consider

1066
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:17,440
El Salvador?

1067
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:25,320
I get it more and more, I get it more and more even from my own country, people, which

1068
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:30,560
is amazing to see, because normally we are the last to do anything and we have, like

1069
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:35,440
we feel very, again, I love my country, but we are so settled in our comfort zone.

1070
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:37,520
It's really dangerous for us.

1071
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:42,320
We've been so privileged for a long time that we thought ourselves on top of the world.

1072
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:48,120
And slowly this illusion is crumbling in the eyes of the public, whereas our government

1073
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:55,000
is still trying to uphold it, of course, desperately so with less and less success.

1074
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:58,320
So people are starting to look elsewhere increasingly.

1075
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:02,320
And what's also happening is people are starting to look outside of the EU because a lot of

1076
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:04,960
people think rightfully so.

1077
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:10,580
I think that if you think things in Germany are going downhill because of government

1078
01:07:10,580 --> 01:07:19,600
overreach, because of mismanagement of everything, because of our failing currency and those

1079
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:24,680
things, then you will not be better off in another EU country.

1080
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:30,640
So people are trying to look outside of the EU and El Salvador is increasingly becoming

1081
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:34,080
present on the map and on people's radars.

1082
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:39,600
The thing is that, again, because headlines stick with you subconsciously, because it's

1083
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:44,400
very far, possibly, because you may not have heard much about it.

1084
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:46,800
If you did, it was for gangs and war.

1085
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:52,760
And now the narrative has shifted to, yeah, sure, things are better, but what if?

1086
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:53,760
What if?

1087
01:07:53,760 --> 01:08:01,480
So it's easy to procrastinate and to then not do it.

1088
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:06,200
The best thing you can do is just come, if you can, obviously.

1089
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:10,960
If you are toying with the idea of coming here, just come here, just come for a trip.

1090
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:12,000
It's very, very nice.

1091
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:13,000
I did that.

1092
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:15,120
And then the rest will fall into place.

1093
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:23,080
So it's easy to overthink things and I am very guilty of that myself.

1094
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:26,240
Traveling the world has made me better at not doing that.

1095
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:31,200
And you throw yourself in situations where you have no time to overthink.

1096
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:34,000
But generally, you cannot seem to lose.

1097
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:38,720
Come here, you'll eat great food, you'll see volcanoes everywhere, you'll have amazing

1098
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:44,320
weather, you'll meet awesome people, and you'll probably want to stay.

1099
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:47,120
And then you go from there.

1100
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,440
It's actually not very complicated.

1101
01:08:49,440 --> 01:08:53,320
So it, yeah, it's very simple.

1102
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:56,760
Everything's really simple, if you want it to be.

1103
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:57,760
I like that.

1104
01:08:57,760 --> 01:08:58,920
That's good advice.

1105
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:03,240
And yeah, for anyone, whether you're thinking of moving to El Salvador or not, I would highly

1106
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:04,240
recommend it.

1107
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:09,000
At least going to visit because it is a wonderful, wonderful place to visit.

1108
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:14,760
I mean, you can, San Salvador is a really great city.

1109
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:16,520
It's clearly on the up and up.

1110
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:22,320
I saw that library that they put in, which just looks incredible.

1111
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:26,120
And then you can also find your way to, you know, on the same day you can be hiking up

1112
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:30,680
a volcano and then, you know, go and surf in the afternoon.

1113
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:35,960
Like it's pretty incredible to be able to do that.

1114
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:40,480
And I love the terrain in that country.

1115
01:09:40,480 --> 01:09:45,040
It is, like every road that you're driving on, you're like, wow, this is just beautiful.

1116
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:49,800
Like there's these vistas everywhere, whether you're along the coast or going through the,

1117
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:53,960
you know, the countryside, it's like, wow, this is truly stunningly beautiful.

1118
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:54,960
It's a treat.

1119
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:58,560
You saw a huge spider yesterday, like this big.

1120
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:00,200
Oh geez, you can't talk.

1121
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:01,200
You can't talk Carla.

1122
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:02,200
Oh boy.

1123
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:05,200
She is not a fan of spiders.

1124
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:06,200
Uh, wow.

1125
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:07,200
Okay.

1126
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:08,200
Me neither.

1127
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:09,200
I don't know.

1128
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:12,200
I also don't like spiders.

1129
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:13,200
Okay.

1130
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:14,200
Sorry.

1131
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:16,200
Too many questions in the spider.

1132
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:21,200
No, but I was getting to a point with that because that's not a great advertisement.

1133
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:22,200
Yeah.

1134
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:23,200
Yeah.

1135
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:25,200
It was a purpose behind the statement.

1136
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:28,200
We went to a volcano, not a volcano, the other thing, waterfall.

1137
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:35,200
We went to a waterfall yesterday and we just like hiked up the waterfall or it was actually

1138
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:36,920
seven waterfalls in one.

1139
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:39,200
You do like a four hour hike around it.

1140
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:42,080
Um, the thing is you have beautiful terrain.

1141
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:46,400
You can be like, there's a volcano over there and I can like literally over there and I

1142
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:51,440
can be at the beach in 45 minutes and the climate is going to be different.

1143
01:10:51,440 --> 01:10:53,000
It's really amazing.

1144
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:57,320
And in the same, in the same spirit, you can get to a bunch of waterfalls very quickly

1145
01:10:57,320 --> 01:10:59,720
or to the forest or whatever.

1146
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:05,640
And two things, A, because this country is severely underestimated and severely undervalued

1147
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:11,680
like Bitcoin, um, you will not have many tourists here yet.

1148
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:13,960
It's a temporary privilege.

1149
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:18,160
If you come here, you can take photos without a bunch of tourists in the background.

1150
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:25,680
The second thing is the nature is so raw and natural and that is amazing.

1151
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:28,920
You get, oh my God, I can't even explain it.

1152
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:35,280
So if you see nature in Europe, it's like, it's organized nature.

1153
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:36,280
It's regulated.

1154
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:38,280
Somebody has already been there.

1155
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:44,000
So everything's like in, I don't know, it feel like everything's in within norms.

1156
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:46,320
I can't even really explain it.

1157
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:54,680
So here you get that, you get that raw feeling of you go into the wilderness and you see

1158
01:11:54,680 --> 01:12:01,520
beautiful untouched nature without all the dangerous animals, by the way.

1159
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:07,080
So a lot of times we go into the jungle, like you're going to have lots of like big dangerous

1160
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:09,200
or small dangerous animals.

1161
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:12,320
So they told us the spider yesterday was not dangerous.

1162
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:17,240
Still didn't touch it, but so here you're not, you have some animals.

1163
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:18,240
You have pumas.

1164
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:22,120
I've never seen one, but apparently that's pumas here.

1165
01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:25,360
You have snakes, but apparently most of them are not dangerous.

1166
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:27,520
You have spiders I've learned.

1167
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:32,280
You have monkeys and you have like geckos and stuff, but you don't have like crocodiles

1168
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:36,520
or hippos or things that easily kill you.

1169
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:41,880
So it's actually very fun to go into nature and you don't have to worry about not coming

1170
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:44,080
back.

1171
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:49,520
So that is a great, and you get there very, very easily.

1172
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:52,360
And again, locals will be so happy to show you around.

1173
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:53,960
We had a local guide yesterday.

1174
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:55,760
It was really, really great.

1175
01:12:55,760 --> 01:13:00,480
And then I took a very epic photo by the waterfall, by one of the waterfalls.

1176
01:13:00,480 --> 01:13:04,600
And yeah, so it's, it's really awesome.

1177
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:07,040
It's a good pitch.

1178
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:14,200
And honestly, that was one thing I was, like, if you travel these days, generally just about

1179
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:16,880
everywhere you go, there's going to be a lot of tourists.

1180
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:17,880
And that's fine.

1181
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:20,240
It's a good thing to see a lot of tourists.

1182
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:25,760
And we saw, like, clearly tourism in El Salvador is exploding because you can look at the numbers

1183
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:29,960
and see that it's up, I don't know how many, it's probably like 200% now or something.

1184
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:35,080
I think it was, it was well in the hundreds last time I checked, but it's, it's exploding,

1185
01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:38,160
but it doesn't feel like everything is overcrowded.

1186
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:46,480
I mean, and it's a small country, but things, there's a very relaxed, relaxed vibe there.

1187
01:13:46,480 --> 01:13:53,000
And like, again, something I saw was just that I think it's really hard to overstate

1188
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:59,760
how much of an impact the people having hope is, like genuine hope, and not, not just the

1189
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:05,960
hope of, I hope things get better, the hope that comes with seeing things get better and

1190
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:11,360
realizing this is just the start of how good they can get, especially after, I mean, it,

1191
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:18,280
they have a rough, a rough history, and they're very aware of that history and of the struggles

1192
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:19,280
they've had.

1193
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:24,040
And I think that that makes the success they're having now all the more important and meaningful

1194
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:25,040
for them.

1195
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:26,440
It's, it's a beautiful thing to see.

1196
01:14:26,440 --> 01:14:34,560
It's, it's to imagine for, for many of us to imagine is being for the first time being

1197
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:40,320
able to walk outside at night without being scared to walk with your phone in your hand

1198
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:48,840
to wear Nike clothes or Adidas or something like that, to meet your friends after sunset,

1199
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:56,120
to go clubbing without being worried, to send your kids to school without being worried.

1200
01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:59,040
Many people have not had that feeling their entire lives.

1201
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:05,160
This country has been under the control of corrupt governments working, working with

1202
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:14,560
gangs under the control of a parallel government run by these gangs for, for decades.

1203
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:20,400
Like people, like people's entire, like people my age have not seen Osiridor this way up

1204
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:23,720
until the book that got into, went into office.

1205
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:28,200
This is extremely significant.

1206
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:33,160
And of course, then they, people will not understand, and I also don't understand why

1207
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:36,720
then from overseas what you hear is, oh, but this is not good.

1208
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:40,280
Well, you should go back to the way, well, they will not say it, but they want things

1209
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:43,520
to go back to the way they were before.

1210
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:45,540
And that is like a slap in the face.

1211
01:15:45,540 --> 01:15:51,240
So human rights organizations will say, hey, but you're treating these criminals very badly.

1212
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:56,360
Where were they before when these criminals were killing people every day?

1213
01:15:56,360 --> 01:16:01,080
We're extorting people when you wanted to maybe open a business, but you couldn't because

1214
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:04,960
the moment you did, the gangs will come and demand money from you and otherwise they would

1215
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:09,040
kill you or your children or your family.

1216
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:10,760
Those are real things that happened.

1217
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:16,440
I have heard so many stories, like every Salvadoran will have their own, their own story to tell

1218
01:16:16,440 --> 01:16:18,960
about their experience with the gangs.

1219
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:25,160
This was, it was so bad that you could, you know, people would, like we would then say,

1220
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:26,960
oh, why don't you go to the police?

1221
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:32,480
Because the police too was either corrupt or extorted, police officers are also humans.

1222
01:16:32,480 --> 01:16:33,560
They also have family.

1223
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:35,680
They were also extorted by the gangs.

1224
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:37,840
It was that bad.

1225
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:40,160
And this has ended.

1226
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:43,120
It is such a shift.

1227
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:48,000
And this is just, I mean, it's, it's one of the main things that Bocca has done here,

1228
01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:50,080
but it's just one other thing he has done.

1229
01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:51,080
Right.

1230
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:54,760
So another thing he has done is he has, it's very interesting.

1231
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:59,960
If you look back at his, his political career, so you know, he started as the mayor of a

1232
01:16:59,960 --> 01:17:02,920
small town south of San Salvador.

1233
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:09,400
From that very time, he was pushing very dreamy language, let's say, like he was really going

1234
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:15,000
out there and going this like, this ethereal route and saying, hey, we should not think

1235
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:21,240
ourselves small because this is what's being told to us from above, from all these supranational

1236
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:28,040
organizations that, that want us to think we are not able to be independent.

1237
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:30,120
We must not believe them.

1238
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:33,440
We must allow ourselves to have hopes and dreams.

1239
01:17:33,440 --> 01:17:36,760
We must allow ourselves to build something bigger than ourselves.

1240
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:42,160
He was pushing this, his entire political career, and obviously the, the higher he would

1241
01:17:42,160 --> 01:17:47,000
recline the latter, the more power he would have to, to convey that message.

1242
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:49,560
So you could see it in the policies that he was pushing.

1243
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:55,240
He was as mayor of San Salvador, for example, he was doing these streetlight installations.

1244
01:17:55,240 --> 01:18:00,480
He was cleaning up the, the old town and doing a lot of visual things where then of course

1245
01:18:00,480 --> 01:18:03,320
the tractors would go and say, oh, but that's so unimportant.

1246
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:05,920
Like, no, it's not unimportant.

1247
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:12,680
It's in addition to providing safety and security to the people, he provided them with the ability

1248
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:17,360
to be proud of their country for many, for the first time in their lives.

1249
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:20,440
And he helped, you know, he did the surf city project, for example.

1250
01:18:20,440 --> 01:18:26,840
So he's, he actively worked on building a collective identity because as a country,

1251
01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:31,040
and again, you feel it when you come here, I, I, I'm German, so I know if you are not

1252
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:35,840
proud, if you are taught not to be proud of your country, if you are taught to be eternally

1253
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:42,440
ashamed of your country, we are so, we Germans are, are, we are brought up thinking that

1254
01:18:42,440 --> 01:18:48,440
it is very bad to put a country flag up by your window or by your car or whatever.

1255
01:18:48,440 --> 01:18:53,040
Like we do this every four years for the World Cup, but that's about it.

1256
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:57,840
And like, and like if you do it outside of that timeframe, then that's weird.

1257
01:18:57,840 --> 01:18:59,360
Why would you do that?

1258
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:07,360
So I know what it means to be, to feel like borderline ashamed of your nationality.

1259
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:08,600
He fixed that.

1260
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:11,160
And that is also part of the reason why people are so proud.

1261
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:12,160
They're so happy.

1262
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:15,640
They're so optimistic and energetic.

1263
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:20,520
And that I do not understand why you would demonize that.

1264
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:22,400
They had a democratic election.

1265
01:19:22,400 --> 01:19:23,880
He won by a landslide.

1266
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:25,720
People are so happy to have him here.

1267
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:26,720
Is everything perfect?

1268
01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:27,720
Of course not.

1269
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:29,880
But nobody ever said that.

1270
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:36,320
So it's just, it's just sad to see that this is what's being pushed, but it's great to

1271
01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:43,200
see that is slowly stopping to work, that people are no longer buying these narratives

1272
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:45,880
and that people are making up their own minds.

1273
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:53,560
And that, you know, it's thanks to social media, it's thanks to this, this like information

1274
01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:54,880
getting out there.

1275
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:58,720
And it's thanks to the receipts that are being shown here.

1276
01:19:58,720 --> 01:19:59,720
That's the good thing.

1277
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:00,720
That's just sort of aligning.

1278
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:05,840
I think it's, it's one of those things where I like to think about Bitcoin and all the

1279
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:12,360
fud that Bitcoin gets is all they can do, and I use they in the collective to mean the

1280
01:20:12,360 --> 01:20:18,520
media, you know, but we know who they are in this context, but all they can do is lie.

1281
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:21,240
And all we need to do is tell the truth.

1282
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:25,920
Because the truth, when the truth is on your side, all you have to do is tell it and show

1283
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:27,840
the receipts.

1284
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:32,440
And all your opposition can do in the case of Bitcoin is lie about it, is invent stories,

1285
01:20:32,440 --> 01:20:40,200
is use old, old tropes that play on people's ingrained notions of what something is.

1286
01:20:40,200 --> 01:20:48,040
And it feels like that's a very, very parallel kind of parallel comparison to El Salvador,

1287
01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:54,880
where all the Western media can do is try and play on all the preconceived notions about

1288
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:58,840
El Salvador, they can try to spin up lies and, and you know, okay, if now that things

1289
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:04,280
are going well, they can fear monger about the future and what that's going to be.

1290
01:21:04,280 --> 01:21:12,080
And all the, all El Salvador needs to do and Bukele needs to do is just to tell the truth.

1291
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:15,280
And to show that, look, this is what's happening.

1292
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:20,760
We're, we're not trying to hide anything where we've been very, and it's not like they were

1293
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:24,840
sneaky about rounding up all of the gang members.

1294
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:29,040
They were very public about it and very proud of it.

1295
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:32,160
And as you said, people feel safe.

1296
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:35,720
And because they feel safe, they can have hope for the future and they can have the

1297
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:41,520
hope to start a business or for people in their family who moved away years ago to come

1298
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:44,840
back and say, wow, I can come back to my family now.

1299
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:47,920
I can start something here in El Salvador.

1300
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:49,080
That's a very powerful thing.

1301
01:21:49,080 --> 01:21:53,720
And I think again, when the truth is on your side, you are in the position of power and

1302
01:21:53,720 --> 01:22:00,680
all your detractors can do is try to say the lie enough times that maybe a few people believe

1303
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:01,680
it.

1304
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:05,880
But, you know, I think it was Martin Luther King who said, a lie cannot live.

1305
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:08,800
Like it's going to the lie will die eventually.

1306
01:22:08,800 --> 01:22:10,440
It's just a matter of time.

1307
01:22:10,440 --> 01:22:17,480
And so it's nice to see and I mean, Bukele even came in and spoke at the CPAC, the in

1308
01:22:17,480 --> 01:22:21,120
the US, the conservative conference and was very well received.

1309
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:26,320
And I think we both know another reason that perhaps the Western media and establishment

1310
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:30,360
is not a fan of him is because he talks about how money actually works.

1311
01:22:30,360 --> 01:22:34,880
You know, he did this on Tucker Carlson show to a couple of years ago.

1312
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:38,880
He talks about how fiat money works very honestly and candidly.

1313
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:41,800
And in his, I mean, he is he is a very good speaker.

1314
01:22:41,800 --> 01:22:46,040
I'll say that he is it's quite impressive in multiple languages.

1315
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:48,560
So really Bravo to him.

1316
01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:54,880
But clearly he's he's showing that a country can be successful without being suckling at

1317
01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:59,640
the the poisonous teat of the International Monetary Fund.

1318
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:04,120
Yes, they're Salvador is still a dollarized country, but has adopted Bitcoin as legal

1319
01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:05,120
tender.

1320
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:10,440
And he's also very, very vocal about money being broken.

1321
01:23:10,440 --> 01:23:14,400
And that's because again, he's just telling the truth there.

1322
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:18,760
He's not he's not making up any lies about how the fiat monetary system works.

1323
01:23:18,760 --> 01:23:19,960
He's just telling the truth.

1324
01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:22,480
But a lot of people haven't heard that truth.

1325
01:23:22,480 --> 01:23:24,880
And that sounds very shocking.

1326
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:30,080
But it's it's powerful.

1327
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:38,520
Because it it reveals the playbook of the powers that the witches speak the truth.

1328
01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:40,120
You must be a conspiracy theorist.

1329
01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:43,680
This was very, it's very easy to do with normal people.

1330
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:48,400
It gets harder to do when you are ahead of state.

1331
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:54,880
So there there has to be a way to discredit you, which then of course explains a lot of

1332
01:23:54,880 --> 01:24:03,160
the headlines and a lot of the dictator authoritarian stuff that is being thrown at him.

1333
01:24:03,160 --> 01:24:07,080
And it no longer really sticks, because of course, he's proving them wrong.

1334
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:11,360
And there, you know, you mentioned the parallel and I really agree parallel between El Salvador

1335
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:15,760
and Bitcoin is that the truth comes out in the end.

1336
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:20,840
And I've said for a long time that I mean, it's not just it's not a big revelation,

1337
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:26,720
but one of our strongest arguments as Bitcoiners is time.

1338
01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:33,920
Time is on our side, because with time, we prove everybody wrong, because all these these

1339
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:36,720
nonsense narratives, they don't stick.

1340
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:40,640
And you can see that with Bitcoin, and you can also see that with things that are happening

1341
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:42,360
now Salvador.

1342
01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:47,680
And then it's it's kind of poetic then for El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin.

1343
01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:55,760
And it's so funny to see a head of state talk about money the way he does and the rest

1344
01:24:55,760 --> 01:25:01,400
of the world scrambling and be like, Oh my God, he said the quiet part out loud.

1345
01:25:01,400 --> 01:25:05,760
No, what were to do with it?

1346
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:06,760
It's so true.

1347
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:13,080
And in the in the US, they're, you know, we just blame greedy corporations or the other

1348
01:25:13,080 --> 01:25:17,320
political party or that's that's the favorite one.

1349
01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:19,440
And it's it's funny.

1350
01:25:19,440 --> 01:25:27,560
But you know, it's I think he's he's certainly he's pulling back the veil a little bit.

1351
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:35,600
And he's challenging that status quo of what are you what are you supposed to do or not

1352
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:38,120
do as an elected leader?

1353
01:25:38,120 --> 01:25:43,000
And I mean, in my mind, and again, from the limited people I've talked to, and I want

1354
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:46,080
to caveat this, I've not talked to every person in the country, and I'm sure there are people

1355
01:25:46,080 --> 01:25:50,680
who hate book LA and think he's doing a terrible job.

1356
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:52,000
Sure.

1357
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:56,000
But from the people that I've talked to and the things that I've seen in my limited experience

1358
01:25:56,000 --> 01:26:00,840
going there a couple of times, and seeing him speak seeing how he acts on on social

1359
01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:04,720
media seeing the speeches he gives.

1360
01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:08,200
He seems to be trying to do what is right for his people and what's going to lift his

1361
01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:09,560
country up.

1362
01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:12,760
And the results seem to speak for themselves so far.

1363
01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:18,200
And again, time will continue to tell the story of whether or not this is this is successful.

1364
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:24,280
But so far, this, you know, experiment as I think is often characterized in the Western

1365
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:28,600
media the experiment of doing things that are good for your people and doing things

1366
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:31,600
that are good for your sovereignty as a nation.

1367
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:33,560
It seems to be working.

1368
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:41,000
And now I think it's it's it's pretty beautiful to see Bitcoin starting to do what we all

1369
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:45,760
were waiting for Bitcoin to do that it does every four years as we approach the supply

1370
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:49,680
getting cut in half, which is it starts to starts to go wild.

1371
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:52,360
And he starts to look.

1372
01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:57,000
It gets very hard to say, well, this was just a gamble on Bitcoin or you're gambling with

1373
01:26:57,000 --> 01:26:59,120
your nation's economy somehow.

1374
01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:05,120
It's like, turns out not being on a Bitcoin standard is a bit more of a gamble.

1375
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:09,120
The Fiat standard seems to be much more of a gamble than the Bitcoin standard.

1376
01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:10,600
So again, time will tell.

1377
01:27:10,600 --> 01:27:14,280
But it is a shame that way too.

1378
01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:17,400
Yeah, because he really understands it.

1379
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:22,600
So you have a lot of politicians who will use Bitcoin when they feel like it's good

1380
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:23,600
for their image.

1381
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:29,360
It's just a very politician thing to do use things that make you look good.

1382
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:38,040
And you know, in a way, he really rebranded the the politician label, at least for himself

1383
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:46,800
in a way that, you know, being called a politician is like, this is like almost an insult.

1384
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:50,400
So and a lot of people will say, actually, he's not a politician.

1385
01:27:50,400 --> 01:27:52,600
He's a leader, which is interesting.

1386
01:27:52,600 --> 01:27:57,200
But anyway, my my wait, what was I saying?

1387
01:27:57,200 --> 01:28:00,680
Oh, yeah, he really understands Bitcoin.

1388
01:28:00,680 --> 01:28:01,680
Yeah.

1389
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:06,760
Yeah, he really understands it versus a lot of people who just use it for short term gain.

1390
01:28:06,760 --> 01:28:09,680
So they adopted Bitcoin.

1391
01:28:09,680 --> 01:28:14,760
He didn't interview at the time with Peter McCormack, where you could really tell that

1392
01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:16,120
he understands the concept.

1393
01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:20,000
And also in general, you know, I also talked to him around the time.

1394
01:28:20,000 --> 01:28:29,920
He really he really understands Bitcoin deeply, which says a lot for somebody who unlike us

1395
01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:35,680
doesn't spend 24 seven on Bitcoin Twitter or reading about Bitcoin or working on Bitcoin.

1396
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:36,680
He's a president.

1397
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:38,440
He has a country to run.

1398
01:28:38,440 --> 01:28:41,520
He understands it very, very well.

1399
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:47,560
And so when Bitcoin tanked after the Bitcoin law went into effect, he could have said,

1400
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:49,840
oh, OK, yeah, that didn't work out.

1401
01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:54,680
Let's just like quietly get rid of this and shine and light on other things that we're

1402
01:28:54,680 --> 01:28:55,680
doing.

1403
01:28:55,680 --> 01:28:57,560
They did not do that.

1404
01:28:57,560 --> 01:28:58,600
They they hodled their way.

1405
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:01,800
They stacked their way through the bear market.

1406
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:03,440
And now they're going to reap the rewards.

1407
01:29:03,440 --> 01:29:07,160
And now the rest of the world is going to go look and probably it's going to go the same

1408
01:29:07,160 --> 01:29:09,760
way like, oh, they're so lucky.

1409
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:15,120
But they're going to look and they're going to be like, oh, you know, we might copy that.

1410
01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:18,440
El Salvador had nobody to copy El Salvador was the first.

1411
01:29:18,440 --> 01:29:23,280
And they had to they had a very rough start because they started through a bear market.

1412
01:29:23,280 --> 01:29:29,360
And now, you know, this is it's very glorious that they're going to see like they're going

1413
01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:32,480
to get they're going to reap the rewards now.

1414
01:29:32,480 --> 01:29:35,920
And this low time preference is going to pay off big time.

1415
01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:39,120
And it is not by it is not a gamble.

1416
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:40,840
It is not by chance.

1417
01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:43,440
They knew exactly what they were doing.

1418
01:29:43,440 --> 01:29:46,800
And that is so they're not going to get credit for that.

1419
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:49,560
But we know we know they're bad as.

1420
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:50,560
Amen.

1421
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:58,640
You know, that is, I think that's a very glorious note to to wrap things up on because your time

1422
01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:00,560
is like Bitcoin is scarce.

1423
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:05,800
So I want to thank you for sharing that scarce time because Bitcoin podcasts are very abundant.

1424
01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:08,160
So thank you for coming on this one.

1425
01:30:08,160 --> 01:30:09,360
It's really been a pleasure.

1426
01:30:09,360 --> 01:30:12,120
It's been great to chat with you to hear the story.

1427
01:30:12,120 --> 01:30:16,840
It makes me want to go back to El Salvador again, because it's been too long.

1428
01:30:16,840 --> 01:30:20,280
This time we'll have a new member of our family and tell them we go can't wait to give him

1429
01:30:20,280 --> 01:30:21,280
his first papusa.

1430
01:30:21,280 --> 01:30:23,440
He's going to he's going to love it.

1431
01:30:23,440 --> 01:30:25,840
Yeah, he's he's a cool little guy.

1432
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:31,440
But before we close out, just anywhere you want to link your Twitter and your noster

1433
01:30:31,440 --> 01:30:33,520
and the website.

1434
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:37,080
Is there anywhere else that people should should go?

1435
01:30:37,080 --> 01:30:38,600
It's the website is let's see.

1436
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:41,880
It's just the little Holdler.com.

1437
01:30:41,880 --> 01:30:43,360
Yeah.

1438
01:30:43,360 --> 01:30:45,560
If they want to get one of these bad boys.

1439
01:30:45,560 --> 01:30:53,640
Twitter is my very German name, which is, you know, at this point, just read it in the

1440
01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:59,920
show notes, I guess, because well, I was you say say the German name, you know, you're

1441
01:30:59,920 --> 01:31:04,600
still proud of your German heritage, you know, so it's it's all good.

1442
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:06,960
Lena Zeichel.

1443
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:08,560
Nobody can pronounce it.

1444
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:09,560
Zeichel.

1445
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:10,560
Okay.

1446
01:31:10,560 --> 01:31:12,240
It was decent.

1447
01:31:12,240 --> 01:31:13,240
Decent.

1448
01:31:13,240 --> 01:31:15,840
Say that again.

1449
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:16,840
Zeichel.

1450
01:31:16,840 --> 01:31:17,840
Oh my God.

1451
01:31:17,840 --> 01:31:18,840
Yes.

1452
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:19,840
Oh my God.

1453
01:31:19,840 --> 01:31:20,840
I am.

1454
01:31:20,840 --> 01:31:22,160
That was great.

1455
01:31:22,160 --> 01:31:23,160
I'm glad.

1456
01:31:23,160 --> 01:31:27,080
See, now I know how to say it when I'm doing the intro for the show, you know, this was

1457
01:31:27,080 --> 01:31:30,320
actually just a trick to make sure I wasn't going to butcher butcher your last name.

1458
01:31:30,320 --> 01:31:32,880
So I was like, I can say Lena just fine, but Zeichel.

1459
01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:33,880
Okay.

1460
01:31:33,880 --> 01:31:35,920
Now, if I say it too many times, I'm going to start screwing it up.

1461
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:37,920
So I've got to just I've got to take the win here.

1462
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:41,040
But I'm so happy.

1463
01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:44,320
But I'll I'll I'll link all this in the show notes.

1464
01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:48,760
It's really been a pleasure and looking forward to seeing you in person.

1465
01:31:48,760 --> 01:31:53,760
I'm sure maybe at a conference or perhaps in El Salvador again.

1466
01:31:53,760 --> 01:32:01,120
Wait, it's been very long.

1467
01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:06,040
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin talk episode of the Bitcoin podcast.

1468
01:32:06,040 --> 01:32:11,400
If you are a Bitcoin only company interested in sponsoring another fucking Bitcoin podcast,

1469
01:32:11,400 --> 01:32:16,320
head to Bitcoin podcast.net or hit me up on social media on noster.

1470
01:32:16,320 --> 01:32:22,480
Head to primal.net slash Walker and on Twitter search for at Walker America or at TIT coin

1471
01:32:22,480 --> 01:32:23,760
podcast.

1472
01:32:23,760 --> 01:32:28,880
You can also watch the video version of this show on X or on YouTube by going to YouTube

1473
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:35,120
dot com slash Walker America or rumble by searching for at Walker America.

1474
01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:36,120
Bitcoin is scarce.

1475
01:32:36,120 --> 01:32:39,160
There will only ever be 21 million.

1476
01:32:39,160 --> 01:32:41,680
But Bitcoin podcasts are abundant.

1477
01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:47,840
So thank you for spending your scarce time to listen to another fucking Bitcoin podcast.

1478
01:32:47,840 --> 01:33:07,520
Until next time, stay free.