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They're gonna keep printing money and Bitcoin will stay at 21 million.

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Death, taxes, 21 million.

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There's only so many things that are just kinda gonna happen.

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Tie your legal and financial to your keys.

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Like, make sure that that plan is consistent,

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and those things reference each other

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so that you're not leaving a treasure hunt to someone who's grieving.

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I've been on the wrong side of that.

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How much Bitcoin do you have? Not enough.

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Never enough. I can always have more.

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I've had enough conversations now

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where I think you're more bullish

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if you can say the phrase,

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"I have enough Bitcoin."

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I actually think it's really going to head to all these levels

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where it's going to change the future.

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Stay humble, stack Saturdays.

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You only get so many Saturdays in your life. You don't know how many.

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And make the most of that time.

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I'll often joke, I have an eight-year-old

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and I'm one halving away from not being a cool dad anymore.

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Soccer games on Saturdays, that's what we're doing,

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and just trying to make the most of that time.

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If you found the best money in the world,

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it should start to unlock the best version of you.

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Stay humble, stack Saturdays.

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Yeah, live your life.

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[Music]

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Jessy Gilger, good to have you on here, man.

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We were just talking off air a second ago that you got to have your first, or I

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don't know if it was your first time in a Cybertruck, but first time driving or

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letting it drive you, Cybertruck.

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Can we talk about that a little bit?

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Because obviously, I've become a huge Cybertruck believer and lover

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of the Clanker. How was your experience?

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My wife and I celebrated our 10-year anniversary, and she had this dream

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of going and disconnecting and just having time together.

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She had booked an off-grid cab in Airbnb.

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I didn't know it was off-grid, but I was like, oh, let me take care of the

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transportation. I had goals of mine, so it ended up being a very robotic

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transportation solution to an off-grid getaway.

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When I told her what we were going to be driving, she was, nope, I'm not letting

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it. It is not going to drive us.

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Then within the first 15 minutes,

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it reminded me of the video of you and your wife, where there's just the

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amazement of what it's going through.

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From the tech side, you're watching it think on that screen.

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That was interesting and really loved it.

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I think I drove maybe 10 % of the time, and that was really just to floor it and

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test how quick it can go.

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You can go pretty quick.

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It was shockingly good at tricky things, probably a better driver than I

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was in downtown Seattle because of all of the construction.

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It's amazing that it can look 360 degrees, and it's got eyeballs all over it.

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I don't.

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It sparked an interesting sense of confidence.

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At the same time, there was the privacy concern.

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I was curious to pick your brain on that.

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Right up in that rear-view camera, the thing is watching me, making sure that

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I'm... It's full self-driving, but I'm supposed to be full self-paying attention.

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Self-driving parentheses supervised.

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We're not quite there yet. Supervised.

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We'll let us do it without supervising. And then my wife and I were chatting about

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the supervising it because she had just had a baby, and so she's breastfeeding and

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has to pump. She's like, okay, I'm here in the passenger seat, but we know this thing

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is watching us. The owner even said,

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hey, no funky smells.

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Don't key the car And no adult activities in the back seat.

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And we're like, okay, maybe he had to make that rule because of prior experiences.

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But then I noticed when we had parked it, it has this Sentry mode and just the

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cameras. And I thought it was an interesting tension as a Bitcoiner, just

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loving the future and what it can do.

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And it's so early in imagining what full self-driving will turn into, but

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at the same time, it's kind of a bit of a trust dynamic here too with how much is

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being recorded.

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But just curious on your thoughts, because I know you have similar tensions in your

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life, like that sovereignty versus privacy versus how cool is this?

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Well, no, it's a great question.

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I mean, I think like with everything, there are trade-offs.

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You have a car that is literally driving itself.

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And the first time I let it drive me, I kind of had this feeling of like,

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oh, this is the future we were promised.

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This feels like technology that is just a very

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positive thing. It's very additive instead of being so extractive, because so much of

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the technology I think that we use, especially like the digital technology,

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the non-physical technology feels, even though it's convenient, feels very

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extractive. All the free products that we get that we're actually

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the product there.

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And so

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it's an incredible experience to be in one.

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On the data privacy side, I do know, by default, cabin camera, FSD,

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supervision footage is not sent to Tesla.

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It's not continuously stored.

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Now, I don't know what the, obviously, this was a rental for you guys, so very

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probable that that person is part of even like their insurance policy

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has storage of that data.

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So that's a different story. But by default, nothing leaves the car.

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On ours, at least, we have all of the data sharing and all that kind of stuff turned

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off. They do a pretty good job of having it off by default as well.

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With Google, it's like you have to opt out of everything.

101
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It's always just like, oh, here, have we buried this under a few other

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instructions?

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Yeah, but Tesla does a pretty good job of, I think, making stuff a little more

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private by default. So if you turn off, unless you turn on the cabin

105
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camera analytics or whatever it's called in your data sharing module,

106
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then it's not sending anything externally.

107
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It's literally like, I mean, it's got a pretty powerful, you know, it's got a

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pretty powerful computer on board there.

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00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:41,279
So it's not like it needs to send it back to the server to analyze, like, is this

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person looking at the road or not?

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But there is a tension. And I know a lot of people like when I posted about the

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Cybertruck, there's a lot of people who feel very strongly against it,

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like, very, very strongly, either because they think it's like, it's not safe.

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It's going to irradiate your body.

115
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It's not private. What are you going to do when the power goes out, you know, and

116
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that's like, first of all, I still have a gas, I still have a gas powered truck, you

117
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know, keeping my my gas powered truck.

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It gets the job done.

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But I've got to say, like, in terms of just for us, it was like, you know, Carla

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got in a pretty, pretty bad accident, not her fault, but somebody else's after our

121
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son was born, and I really shook her up, you know, because it's especially like, so

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it's a vulnerable time, you just had a, had a kid.

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And so she was, she got to the point where she was like, I just really like, if I

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don't have to drive much anymore, and there's like a tank here in a station on

125
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wheels that drives itself, and I can like talk to, you know, Grok and Grok bot while

126
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I'm in there, and get shit done and like not have to be focused on like, it's an

127
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amazing thing. So I don't know, I think for me, like weighing the trade offs, it

128
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would, it's very, very, very much worth it.

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Maybe it's not for everyone. And maybe you don't trust the data sharing agreements,

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you don't trust whatever else. Like, that's a personal decision.

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But at least for us, like, it's been a, a hugely positive thing.

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And it's just like, it's just fucking cool.

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It's just cool. Like, you know, I don't know, I don't know.

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Like, get in one and not come out being like, okay, that was awesome.

135
00:08:12,140 --> 00:08:17,140
Like, that was it. Yeah, if you punch it, you know, I felt like I was in Halo two,

136
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you know, probably back to my teenage years.

137
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But it's not the data sharing isn't what's holding

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me back, like, oh, man, I did notice people like, look, you get

139
00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,260
the head turn, like, what is that thing?

140
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Because it's still a rare sight, I think.

141
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But I noticed the additive benefits, right?

142
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Traveling to the Pacific Northwest, I'm not familiar with Seattle.

143
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And we were going up into the mountains.

144
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I was like, Oh, I actually get to hold my wife's hand on our 10 year anniversary and

145
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not be having to look up directions.

146
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Or when do I turn and it?

147
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I felt a strange peace about it.

148
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With just that whisper of, oh, they're watching you.

149
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And maybe it could be satisfied by not having a rental.

150
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So yeah, I know they have the future is upon us.

151
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Not everyone has driven it yet.

152
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It's such an interesting point about like the being able to just like hang out with

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your wife in a more present way, because the I picked up the cyber truck on the day

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that Carla was getting discharged from the hospital, our daughter was still going to

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need to stay in hospital for

156
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a

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test and literally walk in there and then come out with the cyber truck less than

158
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five minutes later. Like it's the most incredible car buying or leasing

159
00:09:33,380 --> 00:09:36,079
experience ever, because they do everything through the app and their

160
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salesman don't make commission. So they're not annoying as shit.

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It's a fantastic experience.

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I don't think I can ever go back to any sort of normal car buying experience.

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Well, we did realize I need to go test drive one with the eight year old just for

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the emissions mode. Have you tried this?

165
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There's a setting.

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Yeah,

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my son's gonna get a kick out of that one.

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Oh, yeah, but it's great.

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It's great. I mean, being able to like we were going back and forth to hospital

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twice a day. It's a decent ways away from us.

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And so but it just felt like, you know, you're going on a little like having a

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chauffeur drive you around just having a clanker chauffeur drive you around.

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It's kind of nice. So yeah, this is a cyber truck podcast now, I guess guys.

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Sorry. Sorry to disappoint for anybody.

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The cyber truck podcast.

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I am now a cyber truck influencer.

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It is official.

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I could talk about cyber trucks all day, but I do want to get into a few other

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things with you. And I have to cut myself off or otherwise I'll just keep going.

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We'll probably we'll bring it back full circle of cyber trucks somehow at the end.

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But I want to talk a little bit about we were talking off air a bit.

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And what I kind of brought up to you was so first of all, maybe if you just to give

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you a little introduction, Jessy Gilger, you are running verify wealth.

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It's I mean, how do you how do you describe like it's a Bitcoin focused

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financial planning firm? Is that fair to say?

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00:10:58,880 --> 00:10:59,580
Yeah.

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I tell people I'm Jessy, I did financial planning for a decade before I saw

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Bitcoin. And then I left it and then I brought it back.

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00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,860
And so I did that underneath the umbrella for unchained for a little bit.

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But now launching it as my own firm says verify wealth open for about two months

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00:11:16,980 --> 00:11:22,779
now. And we focus on financial plans and strategies geared toward the

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00:11:22,780 --> 00:11:27,219
concentrated Bitcoiner. And that can be concentrated as like a mental focus of

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00:11:27,220 --> 00:11:32,199
like trying to build a position, or concentrated as just financial 90 % plus

194
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,260
of my life is in Bitcoin.

195
00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:39,599
So it is very, very common for us to work with Bitcoiners where it is

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00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,759
the single biggest asset in their financial picture, they're holding the

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00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:49,139
keys to it. And every other financial advisor that they've ever come across

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00:11:49,140 --> 00:11:54,280
just makes fun of that fact, or they'll be dismissive towards Bitcoin.

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00:11:54,380 --> 00:11:57,920
I started doing financial planning for Bitcoiners before the ETFs came out.

200
00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:03,699
And I'd say before that, there was just not a lot of knowledge in

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00:12:03,700 --> 00:12:08,880
that industry about what Bitcoin was, what it could do, how to store it properly,

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00:12:09,740 --> 00:12:12,400
considerations for families, anything like that.

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00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:14,500
So that's why I built what I did.

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And we really treat Bitcoiners and Bitcoin as kind of like the first class pristine

205
00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:21,100
asset that it is.

206
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So I think it’s interesting for people who may be listening, because obviously my

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show, the audience is well, I would assume almost entirely Bitcoiners.

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Maybe some Bitcoin skeptics who I hopefully will convert eventually.

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Maybe some people who just think Bitcoiners are total idiots and just watch

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it to hear an idiot Bitcoiner like me talk.

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But most of them, I would say probably most of them are hardcore Bitcoiners.

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I think for a lot of my audience, myself included, and I mean no disrespect for

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this, but a lot of Bitcoiners have this feeling of like, okay, look,

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I've got Bitcoin. I'm stacking in the hardest money ever to exist.

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I'm not doing a bunch of other fancy trading stuff and things like that.

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I'm not running a bajillion rental properties and other things because I've

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got hard money now, I've got good money.

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So what do I need a financial planner for?

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And I think also there's the financial planning industry, some of the worst takes

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that you see on X about Bitcoin are often from the kind of, let's say, fiat

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financial planning world. So putting that out there just to say that I think there's

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a fair skepticism on the part of Bitcoiners where we're like, okay,

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financial planners, what are you going to tell me?

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Buy more Bitcoin? So I'll put that challenge out there, just to give you a

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chance to kind of maybe is there something Bitcoiners are missing?

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Is there a type of Bitcoiner that you think benefits more so from this than

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another type? Like obviously, you know, it's not going to be for everyone.

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Who is it for? Or what are Bitcoiners like me missing about this when we think about

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financial planners?

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Yeah,

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financial planners are a little bit unique in that they can,

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if done right, connect the dots of you're paying me this much,

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I should be delivering more value than that back to you, right?

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When you do a Cybertruck, it's going on paying this amount for the car and then

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the car has got some intangible benefit back.

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I named the firm verify wealth because I really wanted folks to feel confident in

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what they were getting being more than what they were paying, right?

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And the classic way financial advisors or planners have structured their business is

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a scam. You'd use you'd use this phrase when we were talking about it.

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And

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I think it's so broken in that much of the financial planning industry

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charges 1 % AUM, they can only stick certain things in the account.

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So that's all they're going to talk about, right?

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Stocks, bonds, maybe Bitcoin ETFs now, but they're they're going to be incentivized

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to only focus on returns and accounts and kind of put off everything

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that can't be directly tied to that 1 % AUM model.

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And that's what the Bitcoiners are making fun of.

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And rightfully so, because it's a very myopic view of what a sex, a successful

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financial life looks like.

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Bitcoiners are onto the fact that if we fix the money, and this asset is

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going to grow, that the returns are not the problem, right?

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And most financial advisors are speaking to, oh, your returns are I'm gonna, I'm

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gonna beat that guy with my secret sauce.

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And that's just a lost cause, in my opinion.

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So we, I know how to have those conversations, we can talk about

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allocation, we do have people who are looking for balance, we have people who

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are looking for concentration. But the investment allocation discussion, I would

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say is largely

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the fourth place at best of like the things that are actually bringing value to

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people.

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So the challenge to the Bitcoiner is, can we focus on some levers that you can

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control that you get real objective benefit back from the three largest

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probably above investment allocation are going to be things like taxes,

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inheritance and succession planning, and then like a cashflow

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volatility, management, tying into girl and having a second set of eyes and some

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accountability towards your plan.

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So I don't know if we want to click into those.

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But those would be the three topics where we can actually focus on levers we can

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control. We're not assuming some sort of crystal ball about the

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future, or picking things that are going to be better than Bitcoin.

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Because that's what most Bitcoiners think.

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I've got this pristine asset, nobody understands it yet.

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It's got a bright future. But why do I need to pay attention to anything else?

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It's because you can make that situation even better for yourself and or your loved

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ones.

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So I mean, I think that's a fair on that point.

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I'm glad that you also kind of called out that what we see in, let's say the fiat

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financial planning industry is,

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like a lot of it is very scammy.

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I mean, even just the fact that they're, I mean, I don't know what percentage of

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like, if you have any data on this, like what percentage of the overall, you know,

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certified financial planners actually recommend a Bitcoin allocation?

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Do you have any, any inside baseball on that?

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Like, is there is there data on that about how many in one way or another, whether it

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be spot or ETFs?

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Yeah,

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I don't have data.

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But I've seen I remember before the shift and after and probably the biggest

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anecdotal story is met with a few Morgan Stanley

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execs, and they're saying it's now required education, Bitcoin and AI.

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And they said this was coming like top down that we need to understand this, we

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see them getting into the space with their own ETF, like big players, big names,

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making big moves and saying it's here to stay and making that required.

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So it's only going to increase.

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I don't have data on the percent of advisors and what percent allocation

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they're recommending. Sure. But it's way higher than it was this time last cycle,

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right? And it presumably going to be higher and in future cycles.

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So the shift is upon us for sure.

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And advisors now are a little less dismissive, because they can see the asset

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before when it was held in keys, and they couldn't really touch it.

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They couldn't see it. So they couldn't see it.

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So why do they care? They're going to be dismissive.

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But yeah, it's upon us.

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Okay, I think the tide starting to shift.

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That I mean, it's interesting that it would become I mean, it makes sense that

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would become sort of like required, required reading for these types of guys.

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But yeah, I guess it took the Larry Larry Fink stamp of approval before they tossed

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their hat in the ring there. So let's I personally, I think we should start with

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taxes, because that's the less money that I can give to the

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government from me busting my ass all year.

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The better I mean, like as somebody, you know, I work a Fiat job, and then you'll

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have a small, small business as well, and whatnot.

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And it's like, boy, just, you see so, so much of your money that you work

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so hard for, just go away.

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And I think it's, it's incredibly frustrating.

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And should be radicalizing for people.

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You know, I hope that it is, you know, and especially you think about, you know,

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like, gosh, I've been paying taxes to the government since I was what I forgot my

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first, you know, like official like w two job, like 13 or 14 years old, like, God,

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just like taxes your entire life.

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And then you even taxed on your, you know, tax on your retirement, and then and then,

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you know, you die. So it's death and taxes, right?

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But so what, where do you start there?

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Is there is there an area for Bitcoin or specifically, where you think people are,

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let's say, leaving money on the table, that then the federal government is, you

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know, gobbling up greedily?

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Like, what are most Bitcoiners?

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00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,219
Yeah, what's the most Bitcoiners should be doing or could be doing that they're

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really not?

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Yep.

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As you alluded to taxes are the biggest, I call it the final friction, right?

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If they ever change tax law, where Bitcoin is taxed like money and not an asset, then

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I think we're off to the races.

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00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,860
But as it stands, every transaction, because Bitcoin is taxed like property,

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and not like money is a taxable event.

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And you kind of hinted at it, but the IRS is never going to contact you and say, Oh,

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you paid too much, right?

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You did your taxes wrong. Here's that refund, like that you didn't ask for.

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They do that in a different way.

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And that's stimulus checks. That's coming in November.

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I don't know if you've heard that, not not confirmed, not confirmed, but it is only

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if they win, right? Yeah, yeah, only words.

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Yes. Yeah, that was a hypothetical.

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But tax being the final friction and easing that friction to

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put more sats back in people's pockets became the number one objective thing that

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I could point to. That wasn't a matter of opinion.

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I can read a tax return pretty quickly now identify the opportunities,

379
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gains, loss harvesting, those are different things.

380
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,219
Some people are down on certain chunks of Bitcoin, especially when we're sitting

381
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right now at the 80s. Some people have chunks in the 120s.

382
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Some people have basis much lower.

383
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And many people have both of the above.

384
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And so getting really specific with lot selection and doing different things with

385
00:24:09,540 --> 00:24:10,940
your different chunks of Bitcoin.

386
00:24:11,260 --> 00:24:16,320
Many Bitcoiners have multiple goals for their stack.

387
00:24:16,660 --> 00:24:18,400
I want to retire off it. I want to give some.

388
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I want to help change the world.

389
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,020
I might one day take a loan against it.

390
00:24:23,260 --> 00:24:26,779
You've got different strategies and treating your different chunks of Bitcoin

391
00:24:26,780 --> 00:24:32,539
from a tax basis perspective with those strategies in mind is probably

392
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the number one opportunity that you wouldn't get recommendations from like

393
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,859
traditional financial planning, mostly because most financial advisors don't pay

394
00:24:40,860 --> 00:24:45,259
attention to tax. I talked to so many clients who are like, when was the last

395
00:24:45,260 --> 00:24:47,140
time your advisor looked at your tax return?

396
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,800
Because I can just tell that there's gaps holes.

397
00:24:50,780 --> 00:24:53,599
And they said, never, I worked with an advisor for years.

398
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,380
And he's never even looked at my tax situation.

399
00:24:56,540 --> 00:25:00,319
And it's baffling, because that's not a matter of opinion.

400
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,280
It's a matter of fact, and you can improve things.

401
00:25:02,500 --> 00:25:07,819
So quickly running through, it's usually basis and lot selection, doing different

402
00:25:07,820 --> 00:25:11,739
things with your different chunks of Bitcoin in a tax

403
00:25:11,740 --> 00:25:14,320
efficient way.

404
00:25:15,540 --> 00:25:18,880
Roth IRA accounts, those are tax free going forward.

405
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And depending on your age or goal set, or what your current stack is looking like,

406
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getting that tax free upside, you can kind of shoehorn it into that

407
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,279
tax free future, right, when we mentioned, if they don't tax Bitcoin, well, that's

408
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,639
that's the promise of the Roth IRA.

409
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:42,280
So understand, it is a government promise, and they can always change those things.

410
00:25:42,620 --> 00:25:47,599
But looking into it with, you know, eyes wide open that 59 and a half, sometimes

411
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,179
I'm working with folks in their early mid fifties, and they're, they're a few

412
00:25:51,180 --> 00:25:54,940
halving or two away from a tax free Bitcoin future.

413
00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:01,379
So you can get pretty tax efficient from that perspective, I've seen moves

414
00:26:01,380 --> 00:26:04,260
that we can make that save people hundreds of 1000s of dollars,

415
00:26:05,220 --> 00:26:09,359
objectively, just through looking at where their different buckets are held and how

416
00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:13,340
to make wise and timely decisions within brackets.

417
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,780
And then the third one doesn't apply to everyone, but it's efficient gifting,

418
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,120
right, whether to be charitable causes or family.

419
00:26:23,020 --> 00:26:26,440
There's limits and strategies within each.

420
00:26:27,060 --> 00:26:31,219
But many people, the Bitcoin is not just for themselves, they imagine a future

421
00:26:31,220 --> 00:26:34,480
where they're sharing it with causes they care about and people they care about.

422
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,560
And so doing that without having to sell it, hand them cash,

423
00:26:39,980 --> 00:26:44,419
you know, recognize gain. So as I wrap it all up, I like to say we like to play by

424
00:26:44,420 --> 00:26:47,979
the book with the IRS, but we do not want to leave them a tip because they will not

425
00:26:47,980 --> 00:26:49,840
contact you back if you overpaid.

426
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And one of the most classic examples had a prospect coming in, we looked at his tax

427
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,180
return, reported zero basis on some sales.

428
00:26:58,940 --> 00:27:01,320
I was like, Is that true? Did you really get that Bitcoin for zero?

429
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,040
Because that would have been, I've been like 2010, you know, early days.

430
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:10,199
He said, No, I pay for just didn't never put a basis in had done his own stuff on

431
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,680
TurboTax and like didn't put a basis and we got 40 grand back for him.

432
00:27:13,900 --> 00:27:17,959
Like with it before, before he ever even signed as a client, like, Hey, let's just

433
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,799
do this, whether you're using me or not, go put the basis in and like, you're gonna

434
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,819
get money back. And then he was thrilled.

435
00:27:23,820 --> 00:27:24,660
And it's just,

436
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:29,840
people are very confident in things that they don't know much about.

437
00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:35,239
Right? So Bitcoiners, I've noticed that like, Oh, yeah, I've got Bitcoin, I fixed

438
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:40,000
the money. Everything in my financial life is now simplified and perfect.

439
00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:44,020
It's just not the case. People come from all sorts of different backgrounds,

440
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:51,219
complexities, goals, and my job is to sit there and find a strategy that works best

441
00:27:51,220 --> 00:27:51,920
for them.

442
00:27:54,300 --> 00:27:55,540
I mean, it is.

443
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,220
I sure wish that I didn't have to pay any tax on Bitcoin.

444
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:05,379
But I mean, I think a lot of people to correct me if I'm wrong here, but at least

445
00:28:05,380 --> 00:28:09,099
for, you know, US based people, and I'm not sure if you operate outside US as

446
00:28:09,100 --> 00:28:12,300
well, or if you have a pretty, we do for focus on this, you do.

447
00:28:12,420 --> 00:28:17,319
Okay. Yeah, it's usually for US, US people that live overseas, and they get some of

448
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,799
the best tax opportunity, because what we'll often do is make sure they're

449
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,880
domiciled, at least within the states in one of the tax free states.

450
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:26,020
So there's nine,

451
00:28:27,220 --> 00:28:31,659
Alaska, Nevada, Texas, Florida, big ones, one of the Dakotas believe itself, a few

452
00:28:31,660 --> 00:28:35,919
others, Tennessee, if you domicile within one of those states, you've got a 0 %

453
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,760
state tax. And then on the federal side, there's a 0 % long term cap gains bracket.

454
00:28:41,100 --> 00:28:45,039
And if you size and structure accounts correctly, we do have people that are

455
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:50,559
selling Bitcoin and paying no tax on it, living 100 % selling

456
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:56,079
Bitcoin, reporting it basis, federal like they're just, they tuck under the

457
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,980
radar, there's a 0 % long term cap gains bracket.

458
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:04,699
And so with good basis management, and like, wise, you know, not going

459
00:29:04,700 --> 00:29:10,199
over certain brackets, maybe you're using that free Bitcoin sale up to a certain

460
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:15,639
amount, and then Roth or and or leverage on top of that and sizing that to your

461
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,760
lifestyle spend. So you said you want to do it, you can do it.

462
00:29:20,020 --> 00:29:21,440
But the goals don't always align.

463
00:29:21,580 --> 00:29:24,000
Sometimes people can't live in that state, they're not international.

464
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,100
We just, we never want the tax tail to wag the dog.

465
00:29:29,620 --> 00:29:34,119
But wherever you're at, we want to approach that with the most efficiency

466
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:39,599
possible, because just more sats at the end of the day

467
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,720
for you or whatever you care about.

468
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:48,980
No, I mean, it's, gosh, it does make a huge difference, right?

469
00:29:49,140 --> 00:29:52,519
Like we're talking about, you know, and maybe if you're so fabulously wealthy that

470
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,959
you don't even, you know, you don't care, you don't care what percentage of tax

471
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,140
you're paying, like, you know,

472
00:29:58,140 --> 00:30:03,399
many of the overly, overly zealous pro tax, you know, California

473
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,299
millionaires, who love, who love telling people, I'm happy to pay more taxes, you

474
00:30:08,300 --> 00:30:11,239
know, I love paying more attention to it, just give the gift to the federal

475
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,039
government, it's fine, nobody's stopping you, man, just don't don't make everybody

476
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:14,740
else do it.

477
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:20,539
But things even like, and I know a lot of people, I think a lot of Bitcoiners know

478
00:30:20,540 --> 00:30:25,679
this. But I think a lot of, let's say, pre coiners, may not that like the wash sale

479
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,900
rule doesn't apply to Bitcoin, right?

480
00:30:28,540 --> 00:30:34,219
So yeah, it's, yeah, if you see the murmurings, I think the Yeah, that is

481
00:30:34,220 --> 00:30:34,920
true.

482
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,280
For now, there's murmurings in the house that they were gonna like, quote unquote,

483
00:30:40,420 --> 00:30:41,440
fix that, right?

484
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,500
So you could get it while it lasts.

485
00:30:46,060 --> 00:30:49,439
Or you could go synthetic for a season, I've seen people do that, if you sell

486
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,379
spot, and then like, all right, I'm gonna season in the ETF, just to keep the price

487
00:30:53,380 --> 00:30:58,819
appreciation, then I'll go back if it's neutral or, and then not having to

488
00:30:58,820 --> 00:31:03,459
treat it like a light switch, right, where I just like, full stack moves in either

489
00:31:03,460 --> 00:31:06,540
direction, but carving off chunks of the pie, right?

490
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,240
So I'm a loss harvest this section, and then see how that fits.

491
00:31:11,340 --> 00:31:16,559
The biggest thing though, is just knowing how the Bitcoin moves are going to affect

492
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,260
other components of the tax return.

493
00:31:18,500 --> 00:31:20,640
The situation you presented was fairly simple.

494
00:31:20,820 --> 00:31:23,300
If all the person has is 100 % Bitcoin,

495
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:25,660
then you've got to play that game.

496
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,339
But most people have something else, whether it's a W two job, and you can like

497
00:31:30,340 --> 00:31:35,120
offset the taxes from that or rental real estate, or they were running a business,

498
00:31:35,700 --> 00:31:39,620
and we've got losses, or they've sold the there's just so many other components.

499
00:31:40,860 --> 00:31:45,019
Bitcoin makes people's financial lives better, but it doesn't make everything

500
00:31:45,020 --> 00:31:46,400
simple all at once.

501
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:49,460
So,

502
00:31:50,510 --> 00:31:55,050
yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that that's, that that's fair, right?

503
00:31:55,570 --> 00:31:59,509
And I mean, the, again, the thing here is like, okay, if you didn't have to worry

504
00:31:59,510 --> 00:32:04,469
about the government, right, you didn't have to worry about the the state, this

505
00:32:04,470 --> 00:32:07,630
would be a lot simpler of a of a conversation, right?

506
00:32:08,250 --> 00:32:13,929
But there's just such an insane amount of bureaucracy, I think to wade

507
00:32:13,930 --> 00:32:19,029
through. And like most people, myself included, just like, I just don't have the

508
00:32:19,030 --> 00:32:22,530
have the desire to do that past a certain point, right?

509
00:32:22,590 --> 00:32:24,890
Like, I want things to be as simple as possible.

510
00:32:25,010 --> 00:32:28,989
And I think that's why a lot of us, you know, while we love Bitcoin so much,

511
00:32:28,990 --> 00:32:31,449
right, because it is so simple. It's like this thing, like, okay, I just I don't

512
00:32:31,450 --> 00:32:34,469
have to worry about being some super investor and always picking the right

513
00:32:34,470 --> 00:32:38,009
stocks and everything else. Like, no, I can just, I can just say I can work hard

514
00:32:38,010 --> 00:32:39,330
and can save in Bitcoin.

515
00:32:39,970 --> 00:32:41,930
And I'll be able to set my family up well for the future.

516
00:32:42,930 --> 00:32:46,950
And so then, you know, the problem is that we still are existing in this fiat world,

517
00:32:47,090 --> 00:32:50,909
like, even if you're on 100 % Bitcoin, even if you're earning spending, doing

518
00:32:50,910 --> 00:32:54,989
everything 100 % in Bitcoin, you still, you know, are existing the most of the

519
00:32:54,990 --> 00:32:57,310
world still is still still fiat, right?

520
00:32:57,830 --> 00:33:03,010
And so I think that's kind of the the the antagonizing point for Bitcoiners is like,

521
00:33:03,330 --> 00:33:05,489
damn, you don't want to have to interact with the fiat world.

522
00:33:05,490 --> 00:33:09,750
But you kind of still do to do just about anything you want to you know what I mean?

523
00:33:09,870 --> 00:33:12,609
It's like, yeah, in a perfect world, we'd be hyper Bitcoinized already.

524
00:33:12,610 --> 00:33:14,930
But it's just like, you know, we're not we're not there yet.

525
00:33:14,990 --> 00:33:18,250
You know what I mean? No, and they change the rules so often.

526
00:33:19,250 --> 00:33:24,789
This would be a good one for your audience, because it's approachable for

527
00:33:24,790 --> 00:33:25,670
almost everybody.

528
00:33:26,810 --> 00:33:31,130
The one big beautiful bill act is the new Trump tax code.

529
00:33:32,330 --> 00:33:36,749
When when the clankers were warming up, and that bill came out, I went digging and

530
00:33:36,750 --> 00:33:41,469
said, Hey, what what are they going to be the opportunities that are you look for

531
00:33:41,470 --> 00:33:44,529
tax credits, because those are better than write offs.

532
00:33:44,530 --> 00:33:47,690
So credits are dollar for dollar write offs are cents on the dollar.

533
00:33:48,470 --> 00:33:51,430
And so this is separate from verify wealth.

534
00:33:51,730 --> 00:33:53,050
But another colleague and I,

535
00:33:53,970 --> 00:33:58,970
as long as it as well as a team started the Bitcoin scholarship fund.

536
00:33:59,390 --> 00:34:04,609
And that was because of the Trump big beautiful bill, what it effectively is, we

537
00:34:04,610 --> 00:34:10,189
just got guidance from the Treasury that it's double for married folks, but 1700

538
00:34:10,190 --> 00:34:15,969
bucks for an individual 3400 bucks for married folks, you can give as a married

539
00:34:15,970 --> 00:34:21,109
couple up to 3400 bucks to a scholarship granting organization and get

540
00:34:21,110 --> 00:34:22,990
3400 bucks off your taxes.

541
00:34:23,790 --> 00:34:29,069
So this makes sense if you're like around the $50,000 ish taxable income level

542
00:34:29,070 --> 00:34:34,309
federally. So if you got w two wages of 50,000 bucks, this could make sense for

543
00:34:34,310 --> 00:34:40,069
you and your family 3400 bucks goes to the Bitcoin scholarship fund 3400

544
00:34:40,070 --> 00:34:45,189
bucks off your taxes. We saw that being dollar for dollar and it ends up just

545
00:34:45,190 --> 00:34:49,709
being a few clicks worth of work on the Bitcoiner, right to create that

546
00:34:49,710 --> 00:34:51,690
contribution and then get that deduction.

547
00:34:52,830 --> 00:34:58,269
But when we saw this, it's money that doesn't go to

548
00:34:58,270 --> 00:35:00,150
taxes and starts to go to kids.

549
00:35:00,570 --> 00:35:04,570
And so we developed the nonprofit to be able to do that.

550
00:35:04,950 --> 00:35:09,909
And I think it's emblematic of just my heart towards taxes like, hey, I want to

551
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:12,690
play by the rules, even though I don't think they're fair.

552
00:35:13,950 --> 00:35:19,269
But I, I want to help people start to point those dollars or sats towards

553
00:35:19,270 --> 00:35:21,190
actually fixing the world.

554
00:35:21,570 --> 00:35:25,690
And I very much care about that slogan, I came to fix the money, fix the world.

555
00:35:26,390 --> 00:35:27,750
And sometimes it's tough to see

556
00:35:29,670 --> 00:35:32,849
Bitcoiners hyper focused on just the money side of things.

557
00:35:32,850 --> 00:35:37,470
And they forget that the world out there is still very fiat and broken.

558
00:35:38,530 --> 00:35:41,909
But sometimes they're creating some loopholes that those are opportunities for

559
00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:45,430
us as Bitcoiners to get in there and fund kids not wars.

560
00:35:46,610 --> 00:35:48,030
So very,

561
00:35:49,230 --> 00:35:51,790
it's a, it's a cat mouse game.

562
00:35:52,010 --> 00:35:55,889
It's a love hate relationship, where it's like we interact and we're bumping up

563
00:35:55,890 --> 00:35:57,770
against this fiat system all the time.

564
00:35:58,390 --> 00:36:03,949
How can we do that intelligently and wise so that our monetary

565
00:36:03,950 --> 00:36:07,629
energy becomes more efficient, and we can point it towards things that are going to

566
00:36:07,630 --> 00:36:12,990
improve humanity to blow it out to make it huge, you know,

567
00:36:13,530 --> 00:36:14,230
existential.

568
00:36:15,010 --> 00:36:18,909
But that's exactly one of the biggest frustrations, I think, myself, you

569
00:36:18,910 --> 00:36:24,329
obviously, and many Bitcoiners have around paying taxes is you just, especially after

570
00:36:24,330 --> 00:36:28,409
all this stuff that was exposed with doge and, you know, somebody like at least

571
00:36:28,410 --> 00:36:33,049
USAID got defunded. But you know, most of the most of the bloat is still very much

572
00:36:33,050 --> 00:36:37,349
there. And you realize, yeah, you're paying, you know, almost almost half of

573
00:36:37,350 --> 00:36:42,949
your basically of your life's energy to a bloated kleptocratic system that

574
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:48,289
goes and, you know, doles out grants to NGOs that

575
00:36:48,290 --> 00:36:53,009
line their own pockets and then push propaganda about, you know, to people for

576
00:36:53,010 --> 00:36:55,350
people to hate you more. And it's like this, this sucks.

577
00:36:55,450 --> 00:36:57,290
I don't want to do this. I don't want to feed this beast.

578
00:36:57,410 --> 00:36:58,790
I don't want to feed this war machine.

579
00:36:58,870 --> 00:37:00,530
I don't want to feed this propaganda machine.

580
00:37:00,990 --> 00:37:06,229
I don't want to feed this bloated, you know, and NGO, you know, they're non

581
00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:10,029
government, right? So, but you know, really, it's all just, you know, we know

582
00:37:10,030 --> 00:37:13,710
regime through overthrowing regimes pushing propaganda all around the world.

583
00:37:14,510 --> 00:37:19,189
I don't know underwater, gender fluid basket weaving in Pakistan, like what, you

584
00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:20,670
know, just stuff that nobody needs.

585
00:37:20,970 --> 00:37:26,010
Right. And so it's like, I think Bitcoiners want to put their money

586
00:37:26,610 --> 00:37:30,529
to work. Like you'd rather give your money to something that you know is going to

587
00:37:30,530 --> 00:37:33,489
actually make a difference versus just something that's going to continue to feed

588
00:37:33,490 --> 00:37:36,930
the beast. And then that's what, well, that's at least where I'm at.

589
00:37:37,010 --> 00:37:39,949
And I think a lot of Bitcoiners are, I think one of the things that Bitcoiners

590
00:37:39,950 --> 00:37:43,809
want to put their money toward the most is also like, you know, first thing

591
00:37:43,810 --> 00:37:45,890
Bitcoiners care about your own family, right?

592
00:37:46,030 --> 00:37:48,670
Your own, your own little, little circle here.

593
00:37:49,730 --> 00:37:55,129
And I do want to kind of bridge this into the, the inheritance side, and, and sort

594
00:37:55,130 --> 00:37:58,669
of the, you know, passing the songs. We know that Bitcoin is obviously, this isn't

595
00:37:58,670 --> 00:38:01,550
a, you know, this isn't a two week trade, right?

596
00:38:01,710 --> 00:38:04,170
Or this isn't, you know, this isn't some short term thing.

597
00:38:04,270 --> 00:38:06,050
This is a multi generational play.

598
00:38:07,110 --> 00:38:11,330
And our job, I think, as the first generation to have Bitcoin is, okay,

599
00:38:11,750 --> 00:38:14,749
you've got, you're getting Bitcoin, you're going to get as much as you can, don't

600
00:38:14,750 --> 00:38:19,149
screw it up, right? Make sure that you can actually that you don't, don't somehow

601
00:38:19,150 --> 00:38:23,169
lose it or mismanage it or whatever, do things in such a way that you're not

602
00:38:23,170 --> 00:38:25,930
actually able to pass along the fruits of your labor.

603
00:38:26,570 --> 00:38:32,350
And you're, you're just blind luck at existing at this point in, you know,

604
00:38:32,490 --> 00:38:34,610
space time right now where Bitcoin first existed.

605
00:38:35,690 --> 00:38:37,390
You don't want to screw that up, right?

606
00:38:38,070 --> 00:38:41,710
We got very lucky that we happened to exist as Bitcoin was created.

607
00:38:42,970 --> 00:38:46,690
What, where do you start with that conversation with Bitcoiners?

608
00:38:46,990 --> 00:38:49,570
Where does that sort of planning start?

609
00:38:49,810 --> 00:38:53,330
Okay, we let's, we've covered taxes, I think fairly well there.

610
00:38:53,790 --> 00:38:57,149
But what about in this probably bleeds into the inheritance side too, a little

611
00:38:57,150 --> 00:39:00,589
bit on the tax side, I assume, obviously with, you know, inheritance tax, depending

612
00:39:00,590 --> 00:39:03,730
on your jurisdiction. But where do you start that conversation?

613
00:39:03,970 --> 00:39:06,190
Is it a natural jumping off point from taxes?

614
00:39:06,350 --> 00:39:09,649
Because again, it's like, hey, try to make sure that your heirs don't get all of your

615
00:39:09,650 --> 00:39:13,389
Bitcoin taxed away, you know, when you try to give them or is there a different place

616
00:39:13,390 --> 00:39:15,090
you guys kind of jump off from?

617
00:39:16,250 --> 00:39:21,729
They are related for most cases, this would be like under 30 million of net

618
00:39:21,730 --> 00:39:22,430
worth.

619
00:39:23,210 --> 00:39:26,929
Death taxes are fairly simplified because of the federal exemption, they can get a

620
00:39:26,930 --> 00:39:31,429
little more complicated state by state, like there are some that the common

621
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:34,810
offenders of states like they make death taxes a lower level,

622
00:39:35,950 --> 00:39:39,249
Massachusetts pretty bad one, they're, they tend to be more like democratic

623
00:39:39,250 --> 00:39:43,049
states correlated, you know, the red states are a little more

624
00:39:43,050 --> 00:39:47,410
forgiving on a death tax perspective.

625
00:39:47,790 --> 00:39:53,309
So it's, it's not where I want to spend time on the segue, because it's

626
00:39:53,310 --> 00:39:57,630
decently simple, and then I would just measure it case by case.

627
00:39:59,550 --> 00:40:04,729
The bigger thing with inheritance is just all of the custody

628
00:40:04,730 --> 00:40:07,430
solutions that are out there.

629
00:40:08,330 --> 00:40:13,629
And some being inferior, everybody starts no, I've never seen anyone's

630
00:40:13,630 --> 00:40:17,410
first Bitcoin purchase go straight to multisig cold storage.

631
00:40:17,570 --> 00:40:18,970
It just doesn't happen.

632
00:40:19,110 --> 00:40:21,670
Everyone starts at a journey somewhere else.

633
00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:26,929
Maybe it was through the ETF or Coinbase or like they have an on ramp and a friend

634
00:40:26,930 --> 00:40:31,410
where they got introduced to Bitcoin and they start to believe in the asset.

635
00:40:31,790 --> 00:40:36,309
But there's so much more to learn and you can think you're doing something right and

636
00:40:36,310 --> 00:40:41,909
be rugged and cold card was heavy, right that we all have some ownership in that

637
00:40:41,910 --> 00:40:46,969
of just all right, there's so much work to be done from product improvement

638
00:40:46,970 --> 00:40:52,649
education, how we relay this message people as it stands right now can

639
00:40:52,650 --> 00:40:58,009
still fit on chain when Bitcoin is a global dominant monetary network, most

640
00:40:58,010 --> 00:41:00,630
people won't do on chain transactions.

641
00:41:01,170 --> 00:41:05,389
They exist here. And when you mentioned it being multi generational, it's because

642
00:41:05,390 --> 00:41:10,149
we're so early and you have the opportunity to have an on chain footprint,

643
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:15,029
doing that wise and in a way that aligns with the rest of your

644
00:41:15,030 --> 00:41:16,390
goals.

645
00:41:17,750 --> 00:41:19,250
To answer your question, where do I start?

646
00:41:19,370 --> 00:41:22,370
It's your intentions and then your education and current setup.

647
00:41:23,330 --> 00:41:24,810
What do you want to do with this Bitcoin?

648
00:41:25,550 --> 00:41:26,830
How is it held right now?

649
00:41:27,130 --> 00:41:29,410
And do you really understand what could go wrong?

650
00:41:31,610 --> 00:41:35,770
single sig with a passphrase, I've seen people locked out of that I've seen

651
00:41:37,530 --> 00:41:43,309
multi sig solutions that a surviving spouse was having a heck of a time like

652
00:41:43,310 --> 00:41:47,530
trying to track down, you know, just, there's so many stories of like,

653
00:41:47,910 --> 00:41:53,469
not leaving a treasure hunt and making this simple but not so simple that you've

654
00:41:53,470 --> 00:41:59,129
left the map right on your kitchen table and like an attacker could treat that

655
00:41:59,130 --> 00:42:03,169
as a single point of failure. So I'm trying to take people where they're

656
00:42:03,170 --> 00:42:07,829
starting at what they want to do and then connect some of those dots from a custody

657
00:42:07,830 --> 00:42:10,050
and guiding them through the legal process.

658
00:42:10,350 --> 00:42:16,009
I think another big thing that a cynical Bitcoiner wouldn't be paying attention

659
00:42:16,010 --> 00:42:21,210
to is the effect of probate on the ones you leave behind.

660
00:42:22,650 --> 00:42:28,269
If you don't have a situation that avoids probate, it's

661
00:42:28,270 --> 00:42:33,309
often going to create a mess for your spouse or loved ones in that they have to

662
00:42:33,310 --> 00:42:37,569
navigate that process, which can be slow, expensive, and then worst of all for

663
00:42:37,570 --> 00:42:38,790
Bitcoiners public record.

664
00:42:39,750 --> 00:42:44,069
And so if you were in a situation where husband passes away, he leaves a valid

665
00:42:44,070 --> 00:42:46,750
will to his, you know, everything's going to his wife.

666
00:42:47,970 --> 00:42:52,609
But that will has to go through probate that the amount of coins and the day they

667
00:42:52,610 --> 00:42:57,870
were given to the wife could be public record and searchable by anyway.

668
00:42:58,110 --> 00:43:03,849
And so that's very, very unnerving for people who are taking Bitcoin seriously,

669
00:43:03,850 --> 00:43:09,509
that I kind of want the legal way to be paved for my loved ones as

670
00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:13,790
well, where they have next day access through something like a trust, you know,

671
00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:17,530
revocable living where you've got both spouses who have

672
00:43:19,630 --> 00:43:22,930
title and claim to the Bitcoin without needing to go through probate.

673
00:43:23,210 --> 00:43:27,269
So aligning all of these things because Bitcoin doesn't know about trusts or wills

674
00:43:27,270 --> 00:43:31,889
or probate. And often the legal process doesn't know about private keys or

675
00:43:31,890 --> 00:43:33,810
multisig or collaborative custody.

676
00:43:34,150 --> 00:43:36,870
And those, those worlds are still merging together.

677
00:43:37,110 --> 00:43:41,650
And there's not a lot of great guides through those murky waters.

678
00:43:44,580 --> 00:43:46,400
Yeah, again, I think this is like this.

679
00:43:46,780 --> 00:43:48,420
It goes back to this friction, right?

680
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:49,520
This friction between

681
00:43:50,460 --> 00:43:54,680
okay, yeah, your Bitcoin doesn't care about the legal system, right?

682
00:43:55,180 --> 00:43:57,000
That the code is the law, right?

683
00:43:57,140 --> 00:43:58,300
The protocol is the law.

684
00:43:59,700 --> 00:44:01,860
But the you still exist in that legal system.

685
00:44:02,740 --> 00:44:08,419
And things can get kind of messy, where you may like you can do

686
00:44:08,420 --> 00:44:11,020
whatever you want with your Bitcoin, nobody can stop you.

687
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:17,179
But you know, whether or not the Johnny law finds a way to kind of bend you over a

688
00:44:17,180 --> 00:44:19,500
barrel after the fact is a different story, right?

689
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,640
Like there's, there's what you can do with your Bitcoin, which is whatever you want.

690
00:44:24,300 --> 00:44:29,060
And then there's, hey, let's make sure that they're myself or my, my loved ones,

691
00:44:29,340 --> 00:44:33,879
don't somehow get screwed or, or, you know, put into a position where they're

692
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,840
having to like fight for what is rightfully theirs.

693
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,019
I think I think that's the the tension, at least that's, you know, the thing that I

694
00:44:40,020 --> 00:44:44,359
think about is like, I want to make sure that my loved ones, like they can get what

695
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,619
is theirs, and that nobody's going to be able to stop them or contest that or do

696
00:44:48,620 --> 00:44:52,219
anything like that. Because again, like it, this is this friction, I think that so

697
00:44:52,220 --> 00:44:54,720
many Bitcoiners feel it's like, you know, Bitcoin doesn't care, right?

698
00:44:54,980 --> 00:45:00,199
But Bitcoiners still kind of have to care, because you like it or not, like, unless

699
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:05,599
you are able to somehow, you know, completely get off the grid and go to an

700
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:10,099
uninhabited island with, you know, that's not a formally claimed territory or

701
00:45:10,100 --> 00:45:15,059
something, or, or maybe you start seafaring, you know, and you have a nice

702
00:45:15,060 --> 00:45:18,719
floating island that you move around on and you're, you know, in international

703
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:21,419
waters for the rest of your life, okay, but otherwise, like, you're probably going

704
00:45:21,420 --> 00:45:26,479
to interact with the legal system at some point, and the owners will have to as

705
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:31,579
well, like, so it's it, I mean, it sucks, but it's like, hey, well, you know, it's

706
00:45:31,580 --> 00:45:36,880
the reality. Yeah, but the no KYC pleb, right, I'm going to go dark and do this,

707
00:45:37,580 --> 00:45:41,039
Bitcoin will respect that and all those choices, like if you sign with the keys,

708
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:41,740
it's going to go.

709
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:47,359
And I've seen people start out with that mindset, and then ask them, are you ready

710
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,600
to commit your generations to that type of future, right?

711
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,500
Is your is your lineage all going to be seasteaders, right?

712
00:45:53,580 --> 00:45:57,379
Where there's just now, now the Walker Marry, we live on the ocean, that's our

713
00:45:57,380 --> 00:46:01,440
people, because we have made this commitment to be so you know,

714
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,980
it can be done, I would say it takes more planning rather than less if you're like,

715
00:46:07,020 --> 00:46:12,659
all right, well, now my generations need to know about multisig, Sparrow, private

716
00:46:12,660 --> 00:46:14,560
key management, where seeds are stored.

717
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,939
And it's just not the default for most people, if I'm not around my heirs, and my

718
00:46:19,940 --> 00:46:24,200
loved ones are far less technical, I still want Bitcoin to benefit them

719
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:31,459
in simple ways, right, where they're not having to do the 10,000 hours plus

720
00:46:31,460 --> 00:46:37,240
of education and podcasting that the technical Bitcoiners love, right,

721
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:42,439
they just can't get enough of the Bitcoin podcasts, as you are well aware, but

722
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,780
that's not right for everyone that you love.

723
00:46:46,100 --> 00:46:50,620
And if something were to happen to you, I think it's one of the heart highest ROI

724
00:46:51,100 --> 00:46:55,379
that a Bitcoiner can do, because you don't have to engage a financial plan, you can

725
00:46:55,380 --> 00:47:00,759
go on to one of these more canned tools, you know, like the LegalZoom like get

726
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:05,699
something in place, right? And so, if you're ever put into a hospital or like a

727
00:47:05,700 --> 00:47:09,459
vegetative state, or you want just instructions on file, who can do things

728
00:47:09,460 --> 00:47:14,979
for you, this is, regardless of Bitcoin, the asset, like simplifying things, and

729
00:47:14,980 --> 00:47:20,759
not adding complexity to grief, because I've had to

730
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,740
walk people through that, like, the medical situation is a nightmare.

731
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:29,559
And then now there's extra stress, because the Bitcoin wasn't documented, or we don't

732
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:34,099
know where it is. And we've got to go on a goose chase, while there's suffering in

733
00:47:34,100 --> 00:47:36,140
play. And it's, it's difficult.

734
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:41,479
And just being intentional about your stack protecting the

735
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:47,119
the generations by doing some planning upfront, that ounce

736
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,340
of prevention is like worth well more than a pound of cure.

737
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:57,439
So getting just the basics handled, it can really put a spouse at peace

738
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:01,459
of mind. And then I do often see them being a lot more on board with the whole

739
00:48:01,460 --> 00:48:05,199
Bitcoin thing, which is maybe another tension with some husbands are like, Oh,

740
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,500
yeah, I'm convicted, I'm convinced I've got, and then especially in a bear market,

741
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:13,419
there's some uneasiness from the other side of the aisle, right where I'm

742
00:48:13,420 --> 00:48:14,940
married, but there's not as much belief.

743
00:48:15,140 --> 00:48:19,979
And I think it comes from a lack of confidence that I would know what to do if

744
00:48:19,980 --> 00:48:20,760
something happens.

745
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,839
So it can make the whole family a lot more aligned.

746
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,780
And it's, it's funny you bring that up.

747
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:32,820
Like, I mean, my wife is obviously, you know, Carla Bitcoin is a Bitcoiner, right?

748
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,220
And she, you know, she knows her stuff.

749
00:48:35,860 --> 00:48:40,839
But even she had that kind of hesitancy, like, in, in, until we kind of set up like

750
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:46,279
a multi-sig situation and had things like, you know, and I walked with things, and

751
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,920
she's, she's a quite a quite a smart woman, right?

752
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:53,939
But you know, even so walking things through, and there was some, some

753
00:48:53,940 --> 00:48:57,959
unnecessarily complications in my, I would say my earlier setups and right, right

754
00:48:57,960 --> 00:48:59,160
before kind of like really

755
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:04,679
streamlining things and making it so that one, you know, I can't, I can't, I have

756
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:08,840
no, you know, single point of failure, but that and that nobody can come and,

757
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,599
you know, matter what you do, like, I'm not going to be able to give you my

758
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:13,740
Bitcoin, right?

759
00:49:14,740 --> 00:49:18,580
But also that she has a better idea of what the plan is.

760
00:49:18,700 --> 00:49:21,739
And I think that you're right, because so many, you know, it's like so many people

761
00:49:21,740 --> 00:49:25,419
have asked me to because they know my wife is a Bitcoiner, like, how do I get my wife

762
00:49:25,420 --> 00:49:29,499
on board? And it's like, I don't know, on that side of things, like maybe have her

763
00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:33,820
come from a formerly communist country and have a deep distrust of the state.

764
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,240
And I don't know, like, I don't know if I can help you in that regard.

765
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,440
What you're talking about is a is a huge,

766
00:49:41,780 --> 00:49:46,679
hugely important point. Like you're, it's going to be difficult for your wife, your

767
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:51,940
spouse to really make the leap to fully being on board with something.

768
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:57,159
If they don't feel like they can handle it, like if they don't feel like if they

769
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:01,559
don't know what's what would they would do in, you know, a nuclear, you know, what's

770
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:03,760
the nuclear option? What's the what's the emergency situation?

771
00:50:03,900 --> 00:50:06,600
I'm just like, they don't know what, what to do there, what to do if you don't,

772
00:50:06,660 --> 00:50:08,220
heaven forbid, you're not around anymore.

773
00:50:08,980 --> 00:50:12,339
How are they ever going to feel confident that you're pumping, you know, every

774
00:50:12,340 --> 00:50:16,140
single cent you have into sats like it's understandable, right?

775
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,080
You can see why people would have that reticence.

776
00:50:19,580 --> 00:50:21,480
And so I mean, I think that is it. That is a huge point.

777
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:25,219
I'm curious to as we just like a little on topic, but off topic slightly, this show

778
00:50:25,220 --> 00:50:28,200
is full of rants and digressions, as you know.

779
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:34,739
But if we zoom, like, if we zoom way out, do you think at all just

780
00:50:34,740 --> 00:50:38,079
about like the multi generational treatment of these things?

781
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:42,440
Like, I know you want you obviously want to plan for what the current law is.

782
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,000
But as you yourself mentioned, laws change, right?

783
00:50:46,220 --> 00:50:46,920
Things change.

784
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:53,379
Do you do you do any sort of like, you know, let's say, you know, choose your own

785
00:50:53,380 --> 00:50:58,620
adventure, a B type planning around, okay, if everything remains status quo,

786
00:50:59,060 --> 00:50:59,800
here's the plan.

787
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:05,859
But if we go down more of a dark path toward totalitarianism and asset

788
00:51:05,860 --> 00:51:09,599
confiscation and things like that, okay, then here's, here's the exit plan for

789
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:13,979
that. And if things get far more permissive and way more free, well, we've

790
00:51:13,980 --> 00:51:15,959
actually got a plan for that to better take advantage of it.

791
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,580
Is that something you kind of have thought about at all?

792
00:51:18,720 --> 00:51:20,340
Can you can you go into that? Yeah, absolutely.

793
00:51:20,660 --> 00:51:21,360
I think

794
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:28,179
my time at Unchained building the Roth IRA, and helping that is a

795
00:51:28,180 --> 00:51:29,600
perfect example of

796
00:51:30,580 --> 00:51:32,000
that type of situation, right?

797
00:51:32,140 --> 00:51:37,459
If things go as promised, and we have tax free Bitcoin upside, and I make it to 59

798
00:51:37,460 --> 00:51:39,980
and a half, and America is still intact.

799
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:45,239
And I've got this tax free stack of big, great, I will use my keys, and I will

800
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:46,720
engage with the fiat system.

801
00:51:47,020 --> 00:51:52,419
And it's all rosy. And if it doesn't, and we have to go dark, and I decide to go to

802
00:51:52,420 --> 00:51:55,360
El Salvador with my family, I will take my keys.

803
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,460
And great, I will pull it out of that Roth IRA.

804
00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:03,780
Maybe there will be taxes and penalties, and they can come find me for it.

805
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:09,619
Like, both options, I think are solved by that balance of sovereignty and

806
00:52:09,620 --> 00:52:14,599
key control and finding what can be Bitcoin is unlike any other asset, and

807
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:19,060
that you can take it across the world without permission.

808
00:52:20,020 --> 00:52:23,859
But what if we're already in a pretty good spot in the world, and I still am hopeful

809
00:52:23,860 --> 00:52:27,080
for America, right? It's got its challenges ahead of it.

810
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:33,439
And the planning trope is, you know, plan for the worst hope for the

811
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:38,999
best, right? That we want to have the path to take if

812
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,540
things aren't going, as we had hoped, but

813
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:45,380
not to have that be the base case, it's just optionality.

814
00:52:45,660 --> 00:52:50,319
I think it's better and be more free to live your life if you think things could

815
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,060
go well, and you want to build towards that future.

816
00:52:52,380 --> 00:52:55,840
But keys and optionality from that perspective,

817
00:52:57,420 --> 00:53:00,559
very powerful plan B to fall back on.

818
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,799
So yeah, it's certainly a part of the

819
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:08,380
choose your own adventure, as you put it.

820
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:15,319
Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm of the same opinion that it's like, okay, like, where do you

821
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,999
want to go? Right? Like, they're sure there are other places in the world, if

822
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,659
you, you know, if you're an American, as we are, there are certainly other places

823
00:53:22,660 --> 00:53:25,800
you could go in the world with more favorable tax treatments, right?

824
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,160
But again, we're talking about trade offs, right?

825
00:53:30,100 --> 00:53:34,859
We're you can go to Uruguay or whatever, and they've got, you know, whatever you're

826
00:53:34,860 --> 00:53:36,460
not not going to pay any taxes, but like,

827
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:39,980
Oh, America, I'll still tax you if you live there.

828
00:53:40,100 --> 00:53:42,580
Yeah, you have to completely renounce America taxes globally.

829
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:46,440
So yeah, exactly. So I think that's that's sort of like the

830
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:49,100
that's the tricky part. It's like, okay,

831
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:51,300
where are you going to go?

832
00:53:52,260 --> 00:53:56,819
And I know I love going to El Salvador, but I don't want to like, leave my life in

833
00:53:56,820 --> 00:53:58,760
America. I love I love to visit El Salvador.

834
00:53:59,100 --> 00:54:03,079
I hope to be back there again very soon, because it's amazing to see what's

835
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:03,920
happening in that country.

836
00:54:05,020 --> 00:54:09,119
And it is obviously very friendly towards Bitcoiners, more so than just about, I'd

837
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:10,260
say any other jurisdiction.

838
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:15,620
But like, I love America, I want America to be, you know, I love El Salvador, too.

839
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:17,840
It's just it's just not my country, like, and that's okay.

840
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:23,739
Like, it's, you know, I want America to be a place that I don't feel the need to

841
00:54:23,740 --> 00:54:28,320
leave. And I feel like we're, you know, I mean, the difficult thing, Jessy, is that,

842
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,460
as you know, very well, the pendulum swings, right?

843
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:34,579
And then, you know, things start going one way and looking kind of good.

844
00:54:34,580 --> 00:54:37,500
And then they tend to kind of go back the other way.

845
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:39,420
And then they go a little bit too far that way.

846
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:43,180
And then we swing on back and on and on and on forever.

847
00:54:44,020 --> 00:54:48,060
I'm curious where just kind of your, your gut check your, you know,

848
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:54,360
finger on the pulse, let's say, of where you think we're headed from,

849
00:54:54,780 --> 00:54:59,759
let's just say an overall regulatory standpoint, as it relates to how much are

850
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:05,140
you getting, you know, bled dry by the government, tax wise, how, you know,

851
00:55:05,260 --> 00:55:07,820
permissive are we going to be on uncertain things?

852
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:11,500
What's, what's kind of your feeling about where we're headed with that?

853
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:16,339
Do you think we see a hard kind of swing back in another direction with a new

854
00:55:16,340 --> 00:55:17,400
administration here?

855
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:19,360
What's, what's your feeling?

856
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:24,240
Potentially, I think pendulum swings, but trajectories are hard to change.

857
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:27,240
And so adoption is number go up.

858
00:55:28,300 --> 00:55:31,220
It might have seasons of, you know, slowness.

859
00:55:32,020 --> 00:55:36,819
But there's no red, there's no blue, there's the money printer and there's you

860
00:55:36,820 --> 00:55:40,539
nothing stops this train all the macro trope, you know, like, let's just bring

861
00:55:40,540 --> 00:55:42,020
them, but they're going to keep printing money.

862
00:55:42,660 --> 00:55:46,939
And Bitcoin will stay at 21 million, death taxes 21 million, there's only so many

863
00:55:46,940 --> 00:55:49,320
things that are just kind of gonna happen.

864
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:55,339
And so if you can be along for that journey, you can navigate the swings,

865
00:55:55,340 --> 00:55:56,940
but still know where we're headed.

866
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:03,139
If you want a little more concrete answer, I think taxation starts to shift

867
00:56:03,140 --> 00:56:06,840
from things they can't see and control to things that they can.

868
00:56:07,220 --> 00:56:12,339
And this is like a big, very macro economic prediction is that I think we

869
00:56:12,340 --> 00:56:17,339
start to see relatively less income taxation, because

870
00:56:17,340 --> 00:56:18,960
where are you working?

871
00:56:19,100 --> 00:56:22,259
You're gonna go work in El Salvador, or you can bring your income.

872
00:56:22,260 --> 00:56:27,519
And now with the global internet economy, you can sit wherever you need to and start

873
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:29,780
to source income. So income is harder to see.

874
00:56:34,540 --> 00:56:39,019
And I'll explain what I mean by that by its counter example, I think something

875
00:56:39,020 --> 00:56:44,560
like property taxes, or you can imagine like a nationwide federal property tax,

876
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:49,339
right? You live in America, you cannot zap your two acres from this state to another

877
00:56:49,340 --> 00:56:52,760
country. And our military defends that two acres of yours.

878
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:58,400
So Mr. Sir, would you kindly pay, you know, this many sats to the US military?

879
00:57:00,420 --> 00:57:05,639
It's a little tongue in cheek, but it paints the picture of like, the property

880
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,080
is going to sit there and you can't move it.

881
00:57:09,100 --> 00:57:14,139
And so it'll be far more than you and I would both say it's like unreasonable to

882
00:57:14,140 --> 00:57:15,480
tax that right, just my property.

883
00:57:15,660 --> 00:57:18,660
But I think governments will start to make the case for that.

884
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:21,940
One of their biggest expenditures is military.

885
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,000
What does military do defend borders.

886
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:30,459
And so these borders, if you're within it, I think you'll see on average, most

887
00:57:30,460 --> 00:57:36,199
countries start to pursue taxes that that can't be faked

888
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:37,840
or gamed as easily.

889
00:57:38,860 --> 00:57:42,820
That's like a maybe a 20 or 30 year type of prediction.

890
00:57:43,220 --> 00:57:44,760
I don't think it'll be a light switch moment.

891
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,140
But I think you'll see a shift towards that.

892
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:55,379
No, I mean, it's interesting just on the on like the property tax versus income tax

893
00:57:55,380 --> 00:58:00,639
piece. It's like I can make a case for most of these taxes, whether it's

894
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:06,399
property tax, sales tax, capital gains tax, income tax, like

895
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:11,999
I can make a case for each of those taxes in a standalone

896
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:15,280
way. But I think it's a pretty compelling case, right?

897
00:58:16,180 --> 00:58:17,620
Like you just take one of them.

898
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,620
And I can give you a pretty good case that like, even property tax, which, you know,

899
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:23,100
is not fun for anyone to pay.

900
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:29,479
It's like, well, you know that, let's see, like you want the protection of the police

901
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:34,999
as a as a homeowner, you know, you want, you want your money going to

902
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:38,940
your local school, like, yeah, you can make it you can make a case for that.

903
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:41,620
But the problem is that they're all just stacked on top of each other.

904
00:58:41,780 --> 00:58:44,700
And it's like you're taxed at every damn thing you do is taxed.

905
00:58:44,900 --> 00:58:46,980
And that doesn't work. They'll print it.

906
00:58:47,780 --> 00:58:53,159
Yeah, exactly. And so it's just like, you lose me once you start layering a bunch of

907
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:54,520
taxes on top of each other, right?

908
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:56,980
You know, that's and I think that's the case for most people today.

909
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,979
Sure, I'd like to pay no taxes, but I also understand that like, I mean, I would be

910
00:59:00,980 --> 00:59:05,539
more okay with the taxes that I pay if the government wasn't so damn big and bloated

911
00:59:05,540 --> 00:59:10,919
and full of, you know, kleptocratic bureaucrats that line their own pockets on

912
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:12,660
on our hard-earned money.

913
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:14,560
But but I digress.

914
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,139
I want just because I want to in the interest of time, you mentioned one other

915
00:59:18,140 --> 00:59:21,439
sort of prong of this, is there any first of all, is there anything else you want to

916
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,819
hit on on the inheritance side of things or kind of long term planning side of

917
00:59:24,820 --> 00:59:28,699
things before we kind of get in I think cash flow, you said was the third the

918
00:59:28,700 --> 00:59:30,820
third sort of piece of this puzzle that you look at.

919
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:37,859
Yeah, nothing that comes to mind with inheritance, but just to recap it, tie

920
00:59:37,860 --> 00:59:40,320
your your legal and financial to your keys.

921
00:59:42,460 --> 00:59:45,819
Like, make sure that that plan is consistent, and those those things

922
00:59:45,820 --> 00:59:50,159
reference each other, so that you're not leaving a treasure hunt to someone who's

923
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:52,660
grieving, I've been on the wrong side of that.

924
00:59:52,900 --> 00:59:53,600
And it's,

925
00:59:54,440 --> 01:00:00,219
it's a lot better if you just take the time up front, to do the things

926
01:00:00,220 --> 01:00:05,039
that are just very loving and ensure smooth transition and consistency of that

927
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:06,780
Bitcoin to the things you care about.

928
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:12,579
So I'm not, we're not selling you on anything here, it is do what you want with

929
01:00:12,580 --> 01:00:16,459
your Bitcoin, just put the right intention behind it to make sure that the plan is in

930
01:00:16,460 --> 01:00:17,160
place.

931
01:00:19,460 --> 01:00:23,799
Because man, it's been a rough, rough summer, but we are all one phone call away

932
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:24,740
from just

933
01:00:25,660 --> 01:00:29,180
our, you know, futures being changed forever more.

934
01:00:30,180 --> 01:00:33,419
And I and I hope that that's nobody's spouse, but I've been in this industry too

935
01:00:33,420 --> 01:00:34,120
long to,

936
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:39,060
it comes for us all, right? Death taxes and 21 million.

937
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,660
So strong encouragement to get that aligned.

938
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:47,660
If we're going to transition to cash flow, this one is probably the exact opposite.

939
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:52,300
It's the, the short term, everyone's very optimistic about Bitcoin in the long term.

940
01:00:52,500 --> 01:00:55,879
I've been in for about 10 years now, and we've been six months away from the moon

941
01:00:55,880 --> 01:01:01,639
that entire time. So long term settled, it's our conviction

942
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:06,479
in the long term that makes us struggle with, oh, how do we solve a short term

943
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:10,959
want or need? All right. I didn't have kids when I started now I have kids, they

944
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:15,420
have needs, you know, family and cyber trucks are really cool.

945
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:18,260
And like all these things are chirping at you to

946
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,060
what's it worth? How much Bitcoin?

947
01:01:22,260 --> 01:01:25,020
What is it going to be? Well, six months from now, it'll be a lot higher.

948
01:01:25,140 --> 01:01:30,799
And I see that Bitcoin is always in a wrestle with the short term versus the

949
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:34,939
long term, the conviction, the guilt of selling if they've, if they've never done

950
01:01:34,940 --> 01:01:35,640
that before.

951
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:38,260
You know, the fear around tax.

952
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:44,179
So navigating that short term cycle and having someone to process it with, it's

953
01:01:44,180 --> 01:01:46,140
signal you don't get on Twitter, right?

954
01:01:46,460 --> 01:01:48,880
One, because you don't want that to be public information.

955
01:01:49,860 --> 01:01:53,100
But two, it's just very personal, unique.

956
01:01:53,820 --> 01:01:55,860
And you've got all these dynamics in play.

957
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:02,299
So volatility does look like it's going down on average, but it is still

958
01:02:02,300 --> 01:02:06,160
the wildest bucking bronco in the whole arena.

959
01:02:08,100 --> 01:02:09,920
Bitcoiners are used to riding that.

960
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:16,360
And it's sometimes hard to make a short term decision in a wise way.

961
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:22,259
So people wanting to transition away from work and start to live off of their

962
01:02:22,260 --> 01:02:27,079
stack, really look at this cash flow, this dynamic of like, how do I stay balanced

963
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:28,280
between these two worlds?

964
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:32,660
Well, I still have the majority riding that for the long term.

965
01:02:35,620 --> 01:02:39,980
I mean, so is there, obviously there's no, like, one size fits all.

966
01:02:40,220 --> 01:02:44,940
And like, the goal is, again, at least for me, it's like, I, you know, first of all,

967
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:48,679
I don't have anywhere near to enough Bitcoin to be able to be like, I'm, you

968
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:51,140
know, I'm never working again, I'm going to live off my stack, right?

969
01:02:51,340 --> 01:02:54,900
I like, I also, I know there's a huge, like, you know, the fire movement, right?

970
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:56,680
That, you know, financially independent retire early.

971
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:03,179
I like, I don't know, there's, there's aspect, like, I don't want to retire from

972
01:03:03,180 --> 01:03:07,459
podcasting, you know, I got, I got at least 50 good years of podcasting in me,

973
01:03:07,460 --> 01:03:12,440
you know, I got at least maybe more, maybe more if I get on Brian Johnson.

974
01:03:12,660 --> 01:03:13,880
Breakthroughs in science. Yeah.

975
01:03:14,500 --> 01:03:15,859
Maybe Neuralink in these podcasts.

976
01:03:15,860 --> 01:03:20,000
Century, the century of the Bitcoin podcast, it'd be amazing.

977
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:22,100
Podcasting from your Cybertruck.

978
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:24,020
Here we go, folks. Got it.

979
01:03:24,500 --> 01:03:28,619
My podcasting from my Cybertruck driving through the tunnels of Mars as we wait for

980
01:03:28,620 --> 01:03:33,659
terraforming to complete sidebar, but I'm pretty convinced that all of Elon

981
01:03:33,660 --> 01:03:39,219
Musk's companies are just vehicles by which colonization of

982
01:03:39,220 --> 01:03:40,280
Mars because we go to Mars.

983
01:03:41,660 --> 01:03:43,720
Yeah. But, but I'm, okay, that'll be right.

984
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:45,580
It's a rabbit hole for a different day. Deep digress.

985
01:03:45,900 --> 01:03:51,340
Yeah. But how can it matter to you if you've got the, I think,

986
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:55,239
optionality, right? When you talked about what if things go well, and what if they

987
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:59,519
don't? I don't want you to lose your voice, you know, but if something happened

988
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:03,900
to you, like, how, how do you think about balance between short term and long term?

989
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:07,180
That's really the heart of the big winner discussion.

990
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:09,740
Maybe it's purchase a house, right?

991
01:04:10,180 --> 01:04:15,440
That work, not changing work, but like, how do I start to do this in a wise way,

992
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:21,119
or probably have more sats at the end of it, or make a smart choice for my family

993
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:22,820
now that my family is growing and change.

994
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:27,700
So you're at a different stage of your life than some folks work with some folks,

995
01:04:27,780 --> 01:04:30,600
and it's mandatory retirement pilots, right?

996
01:04:30,820 --> 01:04:32,380
You cannot fly past age 62.

997
01:04:32,620 --> 01:04:34,219
Sorry, I'm sure, I'm sure you love it.

998
01:04:34,220 --> 01:04:35,480
And you can podcast from the cockpit.

999
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:39,400
But the FFA or the FAA, not the future farmers of America.

1000
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:41,720
The FAA says you're done flying.

1001
01:04:42,100 --> 01:04:43,660
And so what do you do?

1002
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:45,540
Your career has a hard stop.

1003
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:49,320
Everyone's working their life from a different angle.

1004
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:54,620
And they have this bright orange Bitcoin future chirping at them to hodl.

1005
01:04:54,820 --> 01:04:59,039
And that is good. Most people still need to learn to flex that muscle right of

1006
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:02,900
hodling Bitcoin and, and getting the accumulation stack on track.

1007
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:08,200
But I will tell you at some point, the future will not be here yet.

1008
01:05:08,460 --> 01:05:12,140
And the present is here, and you're going to have that tension.

1009
01:05:12,620 --> 01:05:14,380
And it comes up in many different ways.

1010
01:05:14,620 --> 01:05:19,739
It's some sort of goal, and it's chirping at you sometimes more loudly than the

1011
01:05:19,740 --> 01:05:24,139
future. And then you've got that spousal dynamic, or like, okay, they might see a

1012
01:05:24,140 --> 01:05:25,640
different set of short term goals.

1013
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:31,460
How can we bring all of those together and make the best choices here at now, right?

1014
01:05:31,580 --> 01:05:34,620
So tax efficient, everything's structured and in place.

1015
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:36,140
So something happens to someone,

1016
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:38,319
the Bitcoin is never lost.

1017
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:44,039
And we can balance enjoying life now, versus making those long term commitments

1018
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:48,420
to the future. So that's, that's kind of how they all wrap up together.

1019
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:53,539
I just become a sounding board for families trying to make those decisions in

1020
01:05:53,540 --> 01:05:55,220
a smart way. And

1021
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:59,400
yeah, it's been an exciting and wild ride.

1022
01:05:59,620 --> 01:06:04,719
And it's so tough for me to generalize because on calls, I'm so used to just

1023
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:09,300
going deep. I love to ask you the you know, the questions like, hey, Walker,

1024
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:15,259
your your life and your kids and your, and I certainly want to respect privacy and

1025
01:06:15,260 --> 01:06:17,320
all that. But that's, that's what brings me joy.

1026
01:06:17,500 --> 01:06:19,340
I feel like I have one of the coolest jobs in the world.

1027
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:24,679
I get to talk about Bitcoin, and come up with ideas of how to make Bitcoin even

1028
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:27,400
better for the families that are already focused on it.

1029
01:06:27,980 --> 01:06:33,639
And I just can't think of anything that's more fun and enjoyable and uses my

1030
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:38,160
skill set that connecting with folks who are headed in this direction.

1031
01:06:38,540 --> 01:06:43,620
So huge thank you to you and you know, everything you've built.

1032
01:06:44,820 --> 01:06:49,999
You've been an enjoyment to my wife and I as we've, we've had to survive bear

1033
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:54,560
markets through, you know, we need humor and joy to get through tough times.

1034
01:06:54,940 --> 01:06:58,420
So we're due for a we're due for a like,

1035
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,020
just a rip roaring bull market.

1036
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:06,560
Like I was I was promised the roaring 20s, you know, yes, let's go.

1037
01:07:06,820 --> 01:07:09,540
Well, I can ask it. Let me let me ask a question.

1038
01:07:09,820 --> 01:07:11,840
It could be slightly personal. Make it as vague as you want.

1039
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:14,940
But let's say we do get the bull market of your dreams.

1040
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:18,140
Now it is a cycle, right? So we are going to come back down to a certain number.

1041
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:21,480
But pick your time frame, pick your number.

1042
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:24,620
What's chirping at you?

1043
01:07:24,820 --> 01:07:29,059
Or what haven't you done yet in the bear market where you're kind of prepared for

1044
01:07:29,060 --> 01:07:33,679
that future and you've got like you've got a plan to execute through this next bull

1045
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:34,380
market.

1046
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:39,419
I mean, I always tell myself like, you know, and I haven't been through that many

1047
01:07:39,420 --> 01:07:44,280
cycles, right? Because I've only only started stacking in 2020 during COVID.

1048
01:07:44,940 --> 01:07:49,340
So I really haven't seen I mean, that was a 2022 was brutal, right?

1049
01:07:49,540 --> 01:07:52,220
And tried to go as hard as I could during that bear.

1050
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:57,619
But you know, as American hodl once said on this show, you're not stacking hard

1051
01:07:57,620 --> 01:07:59,560
enough, like, you know, become a crazy person.

1052
01:08:00,140 --> 01:08:05,819
I didn't become crazy enough then I've tried to become more crazy in this in this

1053
01:08:05,820 --> 01:08:09,760
bear market. But I always tell myself, you know, tried to tell myself like, okay,

1054
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:13,779
when when Bitcoin's ripping up next time, I'm going to try and take some just a

1055
01:08:13,780 --> 01:08:19,439
little bit off the top, you know, so I'll just I'll just sell high and buy back low

1056
01:08:19,440 --> 01:08:22,479
like not with the whole stack or anything like that, you know, a little bit, but

1057
01:08:22,480 --> 01:08:24,440
it's it's just it's easy, right?

1058
01:08:24,900 --> 01:08:27,200
But then I just never end up I just have it.

1059
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:30,480
I don't end up doing it right when I do sell a little bit.

1060
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:34,259
It's for tax-loss harvesting and I just sell it and buy it right back and low

1061
01:08:34,260 --> 01:08:39,919
basis, you know, use my my high cost basis coins that I've that I all those

1062
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:44,960
sats that I bought as I was convinced Bitcoin was going way higher than 125,000.

1063
01:08:45,340 --> 01:08:49,719
You know, I'm really good at buying all the way up to the top, and then all the

1064
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:51,000
way back down to the bottom.

1065
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:54,719
So I guess I don't really have a good answer for you, unless the question was

1066
01:08:54,720 --> 01:09:00,099
more like, was the question more like would you sell mean amount of your sats to

1067
01:09:00,100 --> 01:09:04,499
fund something else? Or was it more like, just like, do you have a plan for when

1068
01:09:04,500 --> 01:09:07,479
when we eventually start pumping again, and then when we eventually start dumping

1069
01:09:07,480 --> 01:09:11,119
again? Is a vague enough question that you could take the answer anywhere.

1070
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:12,760
And I picked up a lot from that.

1071
01:09:13,180 --> 01:09:16,859
So things that I can recommend, like, if you're already doing that loss harvesting

1072
01:09:16,860 --> 01:09:20,020
that you may be in a situation where you have some loss carry forwards.

1073
01:09:20,220 --> 01:09:25,899
And that could be your it could be directly related to the freebie amount

1074
01:09:25,900 --> 01:09:28,620
that you could potentially use going forward.

1075
01:09:28,780 --> 01:09:33,599
So if you did have a short term goal, then the work you're doing there certainly want

1076
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:37,059
to make like a conscious decision of okay, if I sold this many sats, what would the

1077
01:09:37,060 --> 01:09:40,559
impact be? And if I move that slider a little bit up and just start to get

1078
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:44,939
comfortable with like, what is the impact on your own situation, psychologically

1079
01:09:44,940 --> 01:09:49,320
naming a certain short term goal, if you have it, lots of folks saving for cars,

1080
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:54,739
houses, school and education, and just starting to mentally part with those sats

1081
01:09:54,740 --> 01:09:57,780
even in a different bucket and see it somewhere else.

1082
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:03,160
Because very, it's almost the default is like the Bitcoiners think of the stack,

1083
01:10:03,340 --> 01:10:04,880
right? Like, I put it all there.

1084
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:06,639
I've got it all secure in this one way.

1085
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:09,659
And then it's so hard to even tease a little bit out because they feel like

1086
01:10:09,660 --> 01:10:14,719
they're, they're betraying their stack, and starting to name different chunks of

1087
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:18,699
the stack for different purposes, it can create more of a psychological ease when

1088
01:10:18,700 --> 01:10:22,000
that time comes to actually execute on it.

1089
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:25,840
And then when you are executing, don't do it based on price.

1090
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:31,859
Folks, I saw they were waiting for 130,000 last cycle, I'm going to sell a little bit

1091
01:10:31,860 --> 01:10:34,040
at 130. And then it'll just disappoint.

1092
01:10:34,180 --> 01:10:34,940
And so I think

1093
01:10:36,020 --> 01:10:37,620
checkmate does a really good job with this.

1094
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:39,480
He says you don't have to get the bottom, right?

1095
01:10:39,660 --> 01:10:42,500
You got to get the bottom season. He doesn't say season, but I say season,

1096
01:10:42,580 --> 01:10:46,559
right? If it's winter, we just need to dress warm and make like wise winter

1097
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:48,880
decisions, right? Well, some days be higher than others.

1098
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:54,699
Yes. But when summer comes around, look outside, you can measure how far off we

1099
01:10:54,700 --> 01:11:00,020
are the all time high and commit to dollar cost averaging in the reverse direction,

1100
01:11:00,100 --> 01:11:05,139
right? With some sort of like exact either dollar or sats amount on a prescribed

1101
01:11:05,140 --> 01:11:06,520
schedule towards a goal.

1102
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:08,060
And that

1103
01:11:09,170 --> 01:11:14,469
doing that over cycles has been far more palatable for me to endure

1104
01:11:14,470 --> 01:11:20,010
bears. This last cycle, I personally did not sell any coins above 120,000,

1105
01:11:20,450 --> 01:11:26,189
but summit 90 110 100, I was trying to get that season close and we were able to

1106
01:11:26,190 --> 01:11:31,569
fund landscaping and improving our backyard and concrete and all these things

1107
01:11:31,570 --> 01:11:36,169
that are certainly not going to appreciate more than Bitcoin, but they're there to

1108
01:11:36,170 --> 01:11:38,110
like make our short term life better, right?

1109
01:11:38,170 --> 01:11:41,890
We want friends and family and we want to barbecue for folks.

1110
01:11:42,210 --> 01:11:44,610
And we've been able to do that in the bear, right?

1111
01:11:44,710 --> 01:11:50,469
Have people over. And I just share the

1112
01:11:50,470 --> 01:11:55,169
story because I think it's an encapsulation of you don't have to be a

1113
01:11:55,170 --> 01:11:58,710
miser and just punish yourself and wait for Bitcoin to moon one day.

1114
01:11:58,930 --> 01:12:04,010
Been in almost a decade and it's been six months and then we've got, we'll be there,

1115
01:12:04,150 --> 01:12:07,190
right? Just it's hold on hodl.

1116
01:12:07,750 --> 01:12:09,330
And it never goes away.

1117
01:12:09,690 --> 01:12:14,349
And I would tell you, there are folks that are net worth multiple of mine and they're

1118
01:12:14,350 --> 01:12:17,650
going through the exact same psychological decisions.

1119
01:12:18,150 --> 01:12:22,529
And so getting comfortable, we are going to have seasons, what are wise things to

1120
01:12:22,530 --> 01:12:28,129
do in those seasons and then, yeah, hodl the

1121
01:12:28,130 --> 01:12:30,110
long term and enjoy the short term.

1122
01:12:31,970 --> 01:12:37,670
And it's good advice because I think a lot of Bitcoiners again, like myself included,

1123
01:12:39,250 --> 01:12:42,609
you put so much time into studying Bitcoin and going down the rabbit hole and

1124
01:12:42,610 --> 01:12:45,790
understanding this thing that it becomes really hard to part with sats, right?

1125
01:12:46,390 --> 01:12:49,409
But you've got to remember, I think it also, it also depends what point in your

1126
01:12:49,410 --> 01:12:53,869
life you're at, right? Because if you're unmarried, no kids, like

1127
01:12:53,870 --> 01:12:59,489
your ability to live a hermetic life is like, you have

1128
01:12:59,490 --> 01:13:03,229
far more ability to do that if you would like to than you do when you are married

1129
01:13:03,230 --> 01:13:06,270
with kids. Like it's just, you have different priorities, right?

1130
01:13:06,410 --> 01:13:07,870
Different stages of your life, different seasons.

1131
01:13:08,950 --> 01:13:13,129
And like when you're, you're married with kids, as you know, very well, you realize

1132
01:13:13,130 --> 01:13:17,810
like, okay, well, you know, what's like, nobody wants Bitcoin.

1133
01:13:18,750 --> 01:13:20,110
Nobody actually wants Bitcoin.

1134
01:13:20,190 --> 01:13:23,290
You want what Bitcoin can do for you and for your family.

1135
01:13:23,910 --> 01:13:25,190
You don't want Bitcoin itself.

1136
01:13:25,330 --> 01:13:29,549
Nobody wants money. You want what money can get you money is the intermediary by

1137
01:13:29,550 --> 01:13:32,510
which you convert your time and energy into getting things that you want.

1138
01:13:33,170 --> 01:13:34,770
Like that, you know, that's, that's how you do it.

1139
01:13:34,850 --> 01:13:36,550
It's how you exchange it. It's how you store it, right?

1140
01:13:37,090 --> 01:13:38,710
How you account for it for some of us.

1141
01:13:39,590 --> 01:13:43,089
But it's difficult to bring yourself around to that and to be like, it like

1142
01:13:43,090 --> 01:13:45,590
it's, it's okay to do nice things.

1143
01:13:46,270 --> 01:13:49,730
And to live your life because if I don't know, you know, I think some, some people,

1144
01:13:49,830 --> 01:13:52,849
it's easy to get this idea that like, well, I'm just gonna, just gotta save it

1145
01:13:52,850 --> 01:13:54,990
forever. And then what?

1146
01:13:55,630 --> 01:13:56,330
Like, okay.

1147
01:13:57,370 --> 01:14:00,690
Yeah. It comes like hyper Bitcoinization is finally here.

1148
01:14:01,330 --> 01:14:05,770
Now I can spend my sats and you know, I see it on Twitter.

1149
01:14:06,230 --> 01:14:10,450
It's expressed as how much Bitcoin do you have?

1150
01:14:10,810 --> 01:14:12,430
Not enough. Never enough.

1151
01:14:12,710 --> 01:14:14,290
Yeah, I can always have more.

1152
01:14:14,470 --> 01:14:15,170
And

1153
01:14:16,370 --> 01:14:20,870
I've had enough conversations now where I think you're more bullish.

1154
01:14:21,570 --> 01:14:25,789
If you can say the phrase, I have enough Bitcoin, I actually think it's really

1155
01:14:25,790 --> 01:14:29,270
going to head to all these levels where it's going to change the future.

1156
01:14:29,550 --> 01:14:31,510
And I've been committed, right?

1157
01:14:31,590 --> 01:14:35,170
And I've been crazy. And, you know, American hodl would nod and like, yeah,

1158
01:14:35,190 --> 01:14:40,129
you did some, you know, pretty wild moves to allocate to big and, but maybe that's

1159
01:14:40,130 --> 01:14:43,510
enough. Right. And that can give me peace about the short term.

1160
01:14:43,610 --> 01:14:45,690
And like, why did I sell Bitcoin for concrete?

1161
01:14:46,250 --> 01:14:47,530
Is concrete a harder asset?

1162
01:14:47,730 --> 01:14:48,430
No, it's not.

1163
01:14:49,390 --> 01:14:54,810
But I have enough, I think there's enough left in the stack or like

1164
01:14:56,470 --> 01:15:00,070
stacks that are allocated towards retirement and me being a 60 year old man,

1165
01:15:00,570 --> 01:15:05,350
that me being a 35 year old man can enjoy some things now.

1166
01:15:05,630 --> 01:15:10,829
And that Bitcoin, because I'm not promised age 60, I may never get to spend the Roth

1167
01:15:10,830 --> 01:15:13,990
IRA tax free. That might be my son, right?

1168
01:15:14,090 --> 01:15:17,530
And he'll get it tax free and hopefully do some cool Mars trip with it.

1169
01:15:18,490 --> 01:15:23,630
But you don't maybe, maybe people aren't as

1170
01:15:25,350 --> 01:15:30,969
attracted to Bitcoin because they're not as attracted to Bitcoiners as they

1171
01:15:30,970 --> 01:15:36,069
think that someone who's monetarily successful would, you know, display these

1172
01:15:36,070 --> 01:15:39,849
certain behaviors, right? When I think of being monetary successful, I want to see

1173
01:15:39,850 --> 01:15:45,149
someone who's so generous and giving and free and enjoying life and really

1174
01:15:45,150 --> 01:15:46,390
connected to their community.

1175
01:15:47,450 --> 01:15:51,729
And Bitcoiners, if they're too attached to a future price, they can miss out on all

1176
01:15:51,730 --> 01:15:54,290
those short term wins, right?

1177
01:15:54,390 --> 01:15:59,949
Of being free and generous and connected and really having a good balance in their

1178
01:15:59,950 --> 01:16:00,650
life.

1179
01:16:01,270 --> 01:16:06,649
And if the culture of Bitcoiners was those guys are experiencing

1180
01:16:06,650 --> 01:16:11,610
financial peace, and they're not stressed, and they really love their families.

1181
01:16:12,190 --> 01:16:15,730
And they seem so intentional about how they're fixing the world.

1182
01:16:16,110 --> 01:16:17,810
Like, well, there you go.

1183
01:16:18,030 --> 01:16:20,150
Now, now Bitcoin is like fuel for

1184
01:16:21,950 --> 01:16:24,330
it's just a tool in your life rather than a rule.

1185
01:16:24,890 --> 01:16:26,410
And I there

1186
01:16:28,230 --> 01:16:32,170
are many types of Bitcoiners out there, but the one who's too sucked into Twitter,

1187
01:16:32,670 --> 01:16:37,530
and being right and hodling and aiming for this future, they can,

1188
01:16:38,270 --> 01:16:44,010
I think they could be missing out on more that Bitcoin can unlock for them.

1189
01:16:44,430 --> 01:16:50,129
No, not the soapbox, but I, I think, yeah, it's a great, it's a

1190
01:16:50,130 --> 01:16:53,369
great note to end on, because I think it's me, everybody should reflect on because

1191
01:16:53,370 --> 01:16:56,330
again, nobody is nobody's situation is exactly the same.

1192
01:16:57,230 --> 01:17:00,230
Nobody's time in their life is exactly the same, right?

1193
01:17:00,810 --> 01:17:02,770
You've got to figure out what works well for you.

1194
01:17:03,510 --> 01:17:07,149
But and you know, I think there it's this balance between Yeah, you want to have a

1195
01:17:07,150 --> 01:17:11,249
low time preference in terms of how you think about the long term, how you plan

1196
01:17:11,250 --> 01:17:14,409
for it, how you make sure that you're, you know, you don't want to be overly no

1197
01:17:14,410 --> 01:17:16,930
insane, be overly frivolous or anything like that.

1198
01:17:17,530 --> 01:17:18,970
But it's okay to live a little too.

1199
01:17:19,390 --> 01:17:21,570
You know, like, that's the whole point of life is to live.

1200
01:17:22,150 --> 01:17:25,510
And, you know, as you said, this year has certainly taught me, you know,

1201
01:17:26,530 --> 01:17:28,590
tomorrow is definitely not promised, and you take

1202
01:17:29,590 --> 01:17:30,910
take each day as a blessing.

1203
01:17:32,130 --> 01:17:36,289
And, you know, sometimes maybe that future that you're a long off future you're

1204
01:17:36,290 --> 01:17:39,090
planning for, for whatever reason, you may not get a chance to see.

1205
01:17:39,210 --> 01:17:43,609
And so make sure you make every day count right now, because every day really is a

1206
01:17:43,610 --> 01:17:46,969
blessing, and you should be grateful for it and take advantage of it as much as you

1207
01:17:46,970 --> 01:17:51,449
can. By listening to as many Bitcoin podcasts as you can get truly no better

1208
01:17:51,450 --> 01:17:53,610
way to spend your time. No better way.

1209
01:17:53,750 --> 01:17:55,430
No better way. I do.

1210
01:17:55,750 --> 01:18:01,029
I do. Something will say internally, we're trying to get it to catch on is stay

1211
01:18:01,030 --> 01:18:05,629
humble stack Saturdays, that time, you know, like, you get Saturday, you only get

1212
01:18:05,630 --> 01:18:09,729
so many Saturdays in your life, you don't know how many and make the most of that

1213
01:18:09,730 --> 01:18:13,629
time. I will often joke I have an eight year old and I'm one halving away from not

1214
01:18:13,630 --> 01:18:17,329
being a cool dad anymore. And you just there'll be a teenager and like wants to

1215
01:18:17,330 --> 01:18:20,590
do other things. So soccer games on Saturdays, that's what we're doing.

1216
01:18:20,730 --> 01:18:25,110
And just trying to make the most of that time and really

1217
01:18:26,730 --> 01:18:31,329
connecting any resources you do have in Bitcoin, like it should, if you found the

1218
01:18:31,330 --> 01:18:35,130
best money in the world, it should start to unlock the best version of you.

1219
01:18:36,290 --> 01:18:41,910
And so with that, stay humble, stack Saturdays, yeah,

1220
01:18:42,250 --> 01:18:47,909
live your life. And it'll be there in the background, making

1221
01:18:47,910 --> 01:18:48,610
things better.

1222
01:18:50,050 --> 01:18:52,970
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to help you guys make that catch on.

1223
01:18:53,090 --> 01:18:54,790
I like stay humble stack Saturdays.

1224
01:18:54,970 --> 01:18:57,390
That's a that's good. Stack, stack, stack Saturdays.

1225
01:18:58,130 --> 01:18:59,390
Yeah, good words to live by.

1226
01:18:59,690 --> 01:19:00,990
Jessy, appreciate your time, man.

1227
01:19:01,090 --> 01:19:02,650
This was this was very illuminating.

1228
01:19:03,550 --> 01:19:05,510
I've got some more stuff to think about on my end, probably.

1229
01:19:06,250 --> 01:19:08,570
But I do want to ask, where can people go to find you?

1230
01:19:08,810 --> 01:19:11,329
Where can they find out more if they are interested in getting in touch with you

1231
01:19:11,330 --> 01:19:13,170
having a conversation? Where do you want to send folks?

1232
01:19:14,270 --> 01:19:17,730
Yeah, if you want to talk planning, you can find us at verify wealth.com.

1233
01:19:18,230 --> 01:19:21,589
It's just a meet with Jessy button, be happy to talk through whatever ideas

1234
01:19:21,590 --> 01:19:24,310
you're thinking through. And then what else?

1235
01:19:24,430 --> 01:19:26,070
Oh, Bitcoin scholars.org.

1236
01:19:26,410 --> 01:19:30,590
If you want to sign up for that, that waitlist opens up in January.

1237
01:19:30,610 --> 01:19:33,410
So that is fund, fund kids not wars.

1238
01:19:33,770 --> 01:19:39,229
And we want to make a big 21 million dollar dent in that program for the first

1239
01:19:39,230 --> 01:19:42,890
year. It's available. So yeah, those would be the two places.

1240
01:19:44,050 --> 01:19:46,010
Awesome. Well, appreciate your time, man.

1241
01:19:46,650 --> 01:19:51,529
This was this was a great conversation and hope it gave people at least a little bit

1242
01:19:51,530 --> 01:19:55,250
of a little bit of pause to consider things from a different angle.

1243
01:19:55,890 --> 01:19:56,590
And yeah,

1244
01:19:57,730 --> 01:20:00,909
stack Saturdays. That's I don't know, I can't can't wrap it up any better than

1245
01:20:00,910 --> 01:20:04,770
that. Appreciate everyone who listened and who joined in on the live streams as well.

1246
01:20:04,990 --> 01:20:07,750
Thank you guys. And Jessy, thank you so much for sharing your scarce time.

1247
01:20:07,970 --> 01:20:09,550
Appreciate it, man. Thank you, sir.

1248
01:20:13,910 --> 01:20:19,910
[Music]