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Greetings and salutations my fellow Plibs. My name is Walker and this is the

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Bitcoin podcast. It's Tuesday August 22nd 2023. The Bitcoin block height is 804397

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and the value of one Bitcoin is still one Bitcoin. Today's episode is the first

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episode of Bitcoin Talk where I talk about Bitcoin and many other things with

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my guest. Today that guest is Jordan Shaktel. Jordan is the publisher of

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The dossier and he's a Bitcoiner. You can find all Jordan's social media links

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in the show notes. So without further ado let's get into it.

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Greetings and salutations my fellow Plibs. My name is Walker and this is the

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Bitcoin podcast. I am joined today by Jordan Shaktel. Jordan is the publisher

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of The dossier and he is also a Bitcoiner. So Jordan thank you for joining me

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today. I'm glad we got a chance to talk. Yeah thanks for having me Walker and I

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love the name the Bitcoin podcast because obviously that means it's better

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than any other podcast that discusses Bitcoin because this is the official

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Bitcoin podcast. So it's an honor to be on the number one Bitcoin podcast.

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Absolutely. You know I decided like obviously it's a bit douchey to call it

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that right. But I honestly got the idea. I went to University of Wisconsin and

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Ohio State at some point started calling themselves the Ohio State and I was

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like God that's so annoying. But now I'm like oh it's an annoying in a funny way

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to me at this point. So I'm glad you're happy to be on the Bitcoin podcast not

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just another fucking Bitcoin podcast but the Bitcoin podcast. No I really like

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the name and you know it's interesting because you know Bitcoin is not a

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corporation so really anyone can call themselves whatever in reference to

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Bitcoin. You call yourself the CEO of Bitcoin. You can say I am the host of the

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best you know the number one Bitcoin podcast and it's fine. So I like it.

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You know it's up to the audience to determine the truth and I think that

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they will agree this is probably the best Bitcoin podcast out there even though

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you just started. Yeah we'll leave it up to the consensus of the

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clubs you know whatever they decide and shockingly Bitcoinpodcast.net was

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available not.com. I'm not sure who's using it but it's idle so anytime you

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can squat in a good domain it's like why not right. And speaking of good

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domains so you are the publisher at dossier.today URL is correct there.

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Yeah dossier.com was like a million dollars so I went with the $2

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variation dossier.today and I bought you know the dossier is affiliated with

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Substack but you know Twitter is my biggest platform have like 260 something

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thousand followers on there so I use that to kind of like send my followers

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and readers to the Substack but since you know we moved over to Twitter 2.0

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we've had this thing where the Substack links are getting the images don't

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populate because something in the code of Twitter now stops them from

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populating so what you have to do as a Substacker now is you need to buy new

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domain to redirect to so it is a Substack but but the URL is now dossier.today

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which I like and you know I have $2 a year so how can you beat that. I mean

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that's a that's a great deal I did notice that with the you know Elon's latest

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iteration of I guess we have to call it X now I'm just still gonna keep calling it

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Twitter like it's just it's so deep in my brain that like I can't get rid of

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that like it's Twitter and their tweets like not X and Z or whatever it is but

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the amount of suppression that any sort of external link gets is just absurd like

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even if it's not a direct Substack link for example like anything that's not

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native Twitter content just seems to be like pushed way way down which I guess

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he's trying to turn it into the everything platform like on the road to

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like a WeChat style type of thing I don't know if that is his end goal it kind of

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seems like it but it's kind of a shame because it makes sharing anything on

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Twitter like okay you can now like if you have a paid subscription on Twitter

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blue or X black or whatever they're gonna call it now like yeah you can upload

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really long videos and everything but I feel like in terms of content itself the

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platform still has a long ways to go before it like is able to totally get

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rid of external links because that's like for a lot of people they want to

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direct people elsewhere like there there isn't that that desire to post

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everything on there like maybe I know a lot of filmmakers who it's like I want

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people to go to my YouTube but I can't post the direct YouTube link in the

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first post because it won't get any sort of traction so I have you seen you're

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at I think getting close to 50,000 subscribers at this point today right

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so I think it's like 45 46 something like that yeah you see like a big down

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turn when he when Elon took over in terms of because you started this the

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dusting was it 2021 I believe it was July 2020 or 2021 but it's been a couple

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of years and you know the growth on the free the free side is up only and it was

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growing very fast and because my biggest platform is Twitter and my biggest

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platform is Twitter by the way you know it'll give a little bit of credit to Elon

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even though most of it was growing during the old regime where I had to be

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careful what I said like kind of like being in like a Soviet style organization

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where you have to kind of like mock the regime but very carefully and and I

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managed not to get banned and old Twitter you know it's locked out a bunch

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of times but my audience grew I didn't even bother starting like a Facebook or

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like Insta or TikTok page about these issues that I was talking about because

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what I was reporting on you know was antithetical to all the corporate press

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and you know Western government narratives that were populating the

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world and you know nobody wanted to hear it especially in these you know in

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Zuckerberg world and elsewhere so Twitter was growing I think Jack Dorsey

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kind of like at the end of his tenure basically gave up at some point that's

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probably why he departed to work on Bitcoin and other things and you know

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supporting Nostra and whatnot but yeah you know the with Substack it was growing

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very fast and then the Elon crackdown came and it's interesting you mentioned

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that you know he's kind of trying to turn it into this like we chat thing

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because I don't know if you notice but even like if you don't have a Twitter

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account now you actually can't access like anything that's on Twitter like if

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you're just do like a incognito window search for someone's Twitter handle like

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it's completely closed off so you know there's definitely some downsides to

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that too it kind of reminds me of like the conversations that are going on in

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Bitcoin space where a lot of people are talking about you know paying like small

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amounts in lightning to access websites and I think that that's a potential for

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the future but today you know it's very difficult like basically telling

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everyone that like you're only gonna be posting on Nostra now you know there's

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disadvantages that too so but I think that you know Twitter is really a mixed

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bag right now unfortunately they seem to be clashing heads with Substack I don't

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know who's telling the truth but you know Elon says they're basically stealing

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whatever sensitive information so and other and on the sub stack side they

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said they're not doing any of that so I'm not really sure what's happening but

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but you know unfortunately a lot of the sub stackers who really came to sub

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stack for the most part to publish free of you know censorship devices of course

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you know sub stack isn't free from being pressured you know they had to rely on

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stripe to process payments so there's a lot of attack vectors there and of

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course is centralized and everything but sub stacks have been really good I

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think a hundred percent record and you know promoting at least lawful speech so

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I really like sub stack and I hope that you know I could appeal to the

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leadership at x.com to at least get along with them because you know if you

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claim to support you know you want if you I get that you know Twitter needs to

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make money like every other corporation that wants to exist but if you claim that

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free speech is so important to your your set of top principles then you should

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probably find a way to allow for independent journalists to act to

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promote their own work on your platform well that's the thing I mean so Elon is

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obviously somebody who is very like publicly facing you know you rah rah

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free speech you know even recently he's said they're doing away with the block

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button right to go to just like a mute only model but where anyone you have

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muted unlike a block that person could still reply to you which is personally

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like again just my personal opinion I think that's fine like on noster there is

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no such thing as a block you can just mute it so you don't ever see that

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person's anything that person posts which is fine like I don't care if you see

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what I post my I just don't want to see you in my feed and especially if it's

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like spam some sort of bot like okay just mute that I don't need to see it but I

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know a lot of people I think especially like a very big account's got a bit

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ticked off about the whole no block thing but then I also who's the the woman

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that Elon now has in charge yeah Karina Linda right yeah Karina she's like an

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advertising executive yeah I saw you had a you had a tweet maybe it was today or

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the other day just being like she's basically got some Fauci vibes to her

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like yeah and she has that you know as a someone who grew up in the New York City

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metro area I identified the accent pretty quickly so she even sounds like him

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in a way so it is it is mysterious in that sense well it's it's funny too

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because you've got something again like Elon who's the you know the figurehead

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of it all but obviously now he's you know he runs a number of companies he's

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not trying to handle as much as the day-to-day so he brings in someone like

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this and that you've seen some of the things she said what's the one lawful

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but awful is how she characterized certain speech which is like okay

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interesting again like if it's lawful and you promote free speech you would

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think that any speech that is legal like as long as you're not inciting violence

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would be something that's okay but again I feel like as much as you know he's

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tried to say this will be this bastion for free speech it's gonna end up getting

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itself into the category of okay worst like we already know that he was

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pressured by what the Turkish government during the the last election cycle there

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over the summer we can assume that there have been other governments who have

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been able to successfully exert pressure on him and this kind of comes back to

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the problem of again like okay he's still running a company in the United

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States of America now whether or not he caves to foreign governments okay that's

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a different story one could make the argument that hey it's it's his company

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like he bought it he owns it he can do whatever he wants with it at the same

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time it's like well therein lies the problem right and like that's that's

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where protocols like Noster I think are super powerful because there's no

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throat to choke you know there's no head to cut off there's nobody to threaten

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it's like a like a hydra from Greek mythology you know you can cut off one

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head two more grown its place but by the same token those sort of organic

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grassroots movements tend to take a little while to get going and Twitter

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now X has been established for a long time I very much enjoyed the platform

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for a very long time but I'm interested to see where it goes and I don't know

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it's it seems to me I've seen a lot of arguments that like okay he's just

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implementing all of the the blue checks and then all the different layers of

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okay yeah he's gonna pay you out but now you're KYC'd and now soon you'll need to

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show a government ID if you want to prove you're a real person he's not doing

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the world coin scanning your eyeballs thing but you know he's requiring an

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ID at some point I like I've seen some screenshots of that that some people

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leaked but like do you think that is his goal to transition X into some sort of

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a westernized we chat where it's your everything app like it's your payments

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app we already know you know he was you know an investor and founder or co-founder

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of PayPal I don't know how much the actual work he did and how much of the

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just investment he did I can't speak to that but he clearly has his eye on the

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payment side I don't know if he's gonna launch like his own X coin stable coin

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like I'd be interested to see as somebody who is an avid user of the

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platform with a lot of success but also frustration where do you see him

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starting to take this company in this platform which is basically the de facto

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town hall like like it or not Twitter is still the virtual town hall that we

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have and it's there are other options but still it's probably the best one

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available yeah yeah Twitter is still where the conversation happens as much

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as like the corporate media is frustrated by that you know they tried to do the

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threads launch was Zuckerberg and that basically flamed out within a week

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because it was just like it was like NPC you know follow Shaq and you know some

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like random celebrities boring hot takes that are very politically correct so

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AOS AOS AOC was on there immediately like within a second AOC was just

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going going off on there it was great I thought it was funny that you know they

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tried mastodon and mastodon's like super complicated and then they just like gave

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up on mastodon but it's interesting to see the journey of the NPC and you know

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where they end up but but I think with with like Elon and his vision with

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Twitter definitely you see with a lot of these great minds undoubtedly he's

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invented some amazing products Tesla you know I'm former Tesla owner love the

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car at SpaceX amazing company doing a lot of amazing things brilliant mind

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undoubtedly but you know just because you're a brilliant person doesn't mean

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that you could come up with some bad ideas like I was just for instance like

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the movie Oppenheimer just came out so it might be on people's radar and I'm

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sure if you saw it you caught in the movie I think there was a brief mention

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that you know Oppenheimer after he successfully led the team that built the

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bomb he and his colleagues who were very much left-wing in orientation that's

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kind of the size of point they wanted they thought that a kind of like one

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world government UN entity would be the best you know handler for a nuclear

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device and for me that's like the worst possible idea imaginable and these were

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of course the probably the most brilliant three theoretical physicists that

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have ever come to you know grace our planet and they had this awful awful

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geopolitical idea so with Elon I see a very similar circumstance happen

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trying to create this everything app and then thinking in his mind that he's

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going to be able to make it you know somehow privacy oriented to like there's

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just no way unless he plans on you know becoming or ruling some type of very

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powerful country with trillions of dollars in his possession I mean he's

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he's the most you know successful entrepreneur perhaps of all time but

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this would definitely be a level up he does not control the government he's

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still you know as you said there's a lot of influences both from the east and the

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west onto his brands and there's just to me there's no way you can create a

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centralized entity like the whole lesson you know the whole just half the

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importance of the discovery of Bitcoin is that you know there's no you know one

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distributor and I think what you see with Elon is just like kind of this

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naive slash like very drunken idealistic behavior and trying to create

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an everything app and I know that you know reading on you know the history of

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PayPal and what he's done in the payments processing space is that he's tried to

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kind of do this before and this idea was probably like a little ahead of its time

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in terms of the technology that was available so now he's trying to do it

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again by acquiring X and trying to move everyone onto you know I guess a home

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grown payment system but of course you like you know what the deal is if you're

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trying to create your own currency God forbid that's gonna compete with the

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dollar and you're the man in charge it's just such an easy attack factor you're

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gonna create X coin backed by SpaceX reserves or what it nothing it just

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doesn't make sense to me I think that I think that he was right to try to chart a

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new course for Twitter slash X because Twitter was never a profitable company so

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I get that critique but turning it into the everything app is very bold safely

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and I you know I definitely have a lot of concerns about that yeah you know it's

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funny you because you brought up like the the NPC journey on to let's say other

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alternative social media and like leaving masted on a side though the ones

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where I saw kind of just interesting things happening like so you know no

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stir kind of came onto the scene in like really came into people's consciousness

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in probably December like it had been around for Fiat Jaffa been working on

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it for a couple of years before that but it was mainly a lot of you know like

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hardcore devs like doing the real work tinkering on this thing building it but

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it kind of came into the pseudo mainstream in December right and that like

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that's when I first started using it I heard about it like six months before

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because I'm a slight nerd and was reading Fiat Jaffa's GitHub to find some

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lightning implementation he had done I was like oh no stir like interesting

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alternative social media okay anyway next like let me find what I was looking

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for like disregarded it like I disregarded Bitcoin the first few times I

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heard about it but it really like had a quite a explosion there for a while and

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still is still is growing but that was also a couple months before Blue Sky

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launched like it kind of sucked for Blue Sky right because they did have this

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like big team like a lot more coordinated a lot of funding from from

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Dorsey on that and like to his credit I think it's great that he funds like a

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lot of different development you know he's not like picking a winner he's just

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saying you're building this you know decentralized technology okay I've made a

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lot of money and I want to put that towards people who are building

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freedom tech great but Blue Sky I got it one of those invite codes and I got on

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there once it launched and I noticed that again it was like a lot of the like

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politicians and sort of more blue-pilled folks were like on there immediately

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and the first conversations you'd see on there were like people getting offended

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by something and trying to figure out how they could kick the other you know

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kick the person who defended them off of this this protocol not a platform off

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this protocol and just getting really bent out of shape about it and again like

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right away you saw like the AOCs and the kind of like mains or I want anyone

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don't even want to call the journalist mainstream I'll call them legacy

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journalists because they're not the mainstream anymore they're the legacy

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you saw a lot of them get on there and like okay interesting and I saw that

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sort of same behavior mirrored in in threads where it was like Blue Sky is

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to threads as Noester is to Twitter in a way where on Noester like you had that

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early Twitter vibe where it was just kind of like free-for-all but somehow

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like nobody's too concerned with you know labeling each other Nazis and kicking

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each other off of this thing and it's interesting to like maybe it's because

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there wasn't anyone in charge you you have that freedom where you can say

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whatever you want and when you have that freedom people often don't take like

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they don't take undue advantage of it it's like when they're given the freedom

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to act how they want they may surprise you and act a little bit better than you

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think but when you impose these arbitrary walls on them whether it be on

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threads whether it be on Twitter or X or Facebook I mean Facebook I don't I

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haven't used Facebook in years I don't even know what the content moderation is

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on there these days but you find that people if there's a wall people want to

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push back against it when it's an open field people are just kind of hanging

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out and I think that's sort of a beautiful thing I'm interested to see

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where it goes we've got to get you back using Noester again I know you had a

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remember you joined up you were you were active for a little while but it's you

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obviously have like an audience that is almost as large like your Twitter

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audience is almost as large as like all the active users on Noester so for you

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it's like okay you're gonna go where the people are because that's where your

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message is gonna get traction so I'll be interested to see how the kind of

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protocol evolves and how the if we see more people running away from the

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centralized social media and toward the more decentralized option but it takes

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time I don't know yeah there's this thing about like you know everyone in

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their head wants to be the hero who's the first person through the door but

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it's like in terms of success it's it's generally not a good idea to be the

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first guy to the door because that guy gets you know their head taken off so

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it's kind of like so for me it's like I'm like sitting back seeing how Noester's

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doing and I do want like I do kind of like lurk a little bit and the

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conversation I'm still kind of figuring out how to I'm very familiar with Twitter

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but I'm still kind of figuring out the features of Noester and it does seem

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interesting to me like you know I logged in the other day after being offline

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off the app for maybe like a month and it did seem to improve like the speed and

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people were posting a lot more photos and stuff so I thought that was interesting

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and I know that you know there's a lot of Bitcoiners that are super passionate

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about it I just wonder as we're kind of like in this time where you know the I

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think the price action of Bitcoin ultimately like recruits more people

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into Bitcoin and since we've been moving sideways for such a long time and

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that the Bitcoin community seems to be the biggest community at Noester or if

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not like the only major it's diversifying out for sure yeah yeah so I

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think that like for Noester I think for me the goal is to see like success is

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like some like a bunch of randos from some type of like niche community just

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show up there and you're like holy shit I think we might be onto something and I

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think that's when Noester explodes like I think that like you know Bitcoin I'm

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a believer in the number go up technology stuff but I think that like when

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people of other interests start to like randomly show up I think that's like a

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key indicator that the protocol is really working so it should be interesting

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but yeah like I'm definitely you've convinced me to double down and I will

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try to spend more time in there and try to engage people after the after our

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conversation actually tweet out my my public key and that would get some more

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bit pointers or Noester people onto my my hand also maybe I'll engage with them

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some more but I appreciate it I'm glad to hear that because I'm also thinking

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like for someone like you who is let's say you're often sharing some

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inconvenient truths that are definitely going against the legacy narratives and

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so far so good on sub-stack right like you haven't had any issues with

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censorship on there to this point right no not even mention I think what what

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sub-stack my issue with sub-stack is that basically the executives that run the

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show there know that most people who kind of like built a decent-sized audience

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there came at it from like this dissident framework I don't want to call it

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right versus left but like anti-establishment yeah and it seems that

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they are they're marketing and advertising they're trying to bring more

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establishment voices into the fold which kind of annoys me but as long as they

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give me a platform I'm not so happy with the percentage they take because I feel

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like they're not doing as much of the legwork on the back end that they used

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to but what would I really built up an audience sorry what's what's their cut on

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so stripe takes a little less than 10% I think and I want to say sub-stack also

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takes around 10 to 12% wasn't up to strike might be lower than that I think

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they're like they're like five to I think overall it's around 15% total between

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the two it's a decent chunk like yeah they're trying to they're trying to

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innovate in all kinds of ways and how to how to boost subscribers but I think

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they they kind of like overexposed the website to making trying to get everyone

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to build a newsletter and I guess that's good for business but it kind of like

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when you go to there they have this thing called notes now which I'm not I don't

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really use too much but it seems that they're just like they're finding so

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many ways to like cross pollinate the newsletters and I get a lot of requests

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from people with other sub-stacks like hey can you repost mine and like for me

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I want to kind of like protect like I don't want to offend these people but I

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kind of want to like protect my email list like I don't know about you but but I

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like hate it when I get a random unsolicited email from some like from

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some like political entity or some newsletter that I didn't subscribe to so

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I feel like reposting which sub-sec encourages you to do I don't really like

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just sending my audience someone else's work because they subscribe to my work

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you know they can also just subscribe to their work too so I try to keep it like

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more in-house and I think that kind of limits the growth of my newsletter but

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I'd rather do that and kind of like stay true with the audience it's kind of part

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of the brand so I think they appreciate that I mean absolutely like anytime I

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get some sort of unsolicited email where I'm like I didn't sign up for this my

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first thought is okay like which one of you fuckers sold my email I know that

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somebody sold my email who was it but the reason that I ask about censorship on

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sub-stack and I'm glad to hear that that hasn't happened for you yet and

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hopefully will not but I say yet just to leave the future open is because you

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know things I don't think right now that we're trending in a direction of at

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least from the state level we're not trending in a direction of decreased

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presence of the state and increased liberty there are a lot of tools that

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people are building that are from the bottom up that are helping us hopefully

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push back against that top-down state control apparatus but in general it's

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like especially we're getting into election season right and things I feel

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like the line becomes even more fine from the state's perspective once you're

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into that election year of what is it okay to say and what's it not okay to

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say and what's you know what's gonna be termed misinformation or disinformation

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and so I again to bring it back to Nostar that could be a really interesting

352
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way for you to at least have an alternate distribution mechanism like there's a

353
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number of tools right now like obla.news is one where you can publish and it's

354
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basically like a it's like a blog builder but on Nostar and you can publish

355
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this long-form content all format it how you want but it's gonna be broadcast to

356
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dozens of relays and unless like every single relay decide decides to censor you

357
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which why would they you've at least got something that is outside of the

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platform world and in the protocol world so that if they start ripping yourself

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off of stubsack let's hope they don't but at least you've got some sort of a

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backup there so that that could be a nice avenue for you and again not having

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because you mentioned just asked about the fees because I was curious and 15%

362
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is like you're working really hard for this obviously they're providing a

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service but that's a big chunk and then you know you think about Bitcoin on

364
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Nostar and it's like okay there's no middlemen there like that's just you

365
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taking directly from your audience or I should say your audience giving directly

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to you so I think that's that's an interesting angle for you to explore

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and I think that we're gonna see a lot more people who are publishing information

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that could be let's say against the state's interests migrate to Nostar at

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least I hope we do and I think we're seeing some that already but with that

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I'd love to kind of transition to a little bit of just your background kind

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of how you got started with the dossier because you're one of these these voices

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both myself and Carla have been following you for a couple of years now and I

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think it was like during COVID that and kind of lockdown era is that we both

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like found you on Twitter like oh this guy's like he's saying some shit I like

375
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and and you started publishing the dossier but you've always at least I've

376
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,640
seen you've been somebody who I don't know what your technical political

377
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,240
affiliation would be but you seem to call things out on both sides of the aisle

378
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,240
pretty well like I've seen you go head-to-head with some diehard Trumpers

379
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and with some diehard Biden fans if there are any that are truly diehard but

380
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you know you're you're kind of pushing back against the legacy narratives in

381
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general so kind of what is your background that brought you to start the

382
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,440
dossier I know you were in DC for a while but can you tell us a little bit

383
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,360
more about that like kind of what brought you to start it and like what in

384
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,920
your background has kind of prepared you for this this role that you found

385
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:16,400
yourself in now yes so basically when I went to to college at a smaller

386
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liberal arts school in New Jersey called Monmouth I just like didn't know what I

387
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:26,000
wanted to major in and this is kind of where it started that I was just like

388
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interested in learning about the world always so ended up majoring in

389
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:35,720
international affairs and went to grad school in DC for that basically same

390
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:41,200
degree from a masters and base and you know I was kind of like a very I would

391
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:50,080
say like an establishment Republican oriented politically person and thought

392
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I was very nationalistic patriotic and wanted to serve my country so after

393
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:07,760
grad school I wanted to become probably a member of a three-letter agency so I

394
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,760
was like I was like way off course here like you know I was I thought I loved

395
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,160
freedom and liberty and stuff and you know totally head in the sand

396
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:24,000
propagandized by everything by the Uniparty for sure and then kind of like

397
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don't you know at this time I'm working

398
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coincidentally I was writing a few papers in grad school and published them

399
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and you know some media outlets took interest and I kind of just got like

400
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:45,960
sucked into right-wing media world published basically every outlet you

401
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:50,080
can imagine there and was on staff at a couple places like a bright part in the

402
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:55,760
blaze so I'm doing that for a while and still like you know I have this master's

403
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,840
degree in national security and international affairs and I'm like

404
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:05,400
interviewing with the feds and so like living in these like two kind of two

405
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:11,120
parallel worlds Donald Trump gets elected and like all this crazy stuff

406
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,880
starts happening and it kind of like forces me to revisit my worldview

407
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because it's the first time in my lifetime you know my early 30s but where

408
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,000
there was actually like an anti-establishment candidate that came to

409
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office and I saw the wrath of the deep state very close up firsthand and I was

410
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:36,440
like okay I don't really want to be a part of that anymore so my degree is a

411
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:41,320
waste but it came in handy during COVID times so I'm still kind of like working

412
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,360
for right of center media and you know I've always wanted to establish my own

413
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:52,040
independent operation because I think that space is very limited and the

414
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:57,240
contracts are awful there's all kinds of nonsense that I could go into forever

415
00:34:57,240 --> 00:35:03,200
there so I always want to start with a thing you know fast forward to late 2019

416
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or late 2020 and I start reading about this coronavirus stuff and I see that

417
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:18,920
you know I like to read kind of like the source material and at this time I'm

418
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:26,040
already like kind of slightly based I am pretty much a bit coiner at this point

419
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:31,560
like you know gotten away from my shitcoining face so like pretty red

420
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:36,400
pilled and I an orange pilled at the same time and I'm reading all this stuff

421
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about proper pandemic preparedness from like the WHO from the CDC what's going

422
00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:50,520
on in China you know knowing with my background because I covered international

423
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:55,560
affairs in media space that you know the structure of the Chinese government to

424
00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:00,280
be pretty suspicious of the press releases coming from the Communist Party

425
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China and like nothing made sense to me nothing they were doing was part of any

426
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of this original pandemic preparedness guidance at all so it was all really

427
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:15,520
weird to me and I started to question the narrative and then like I was shocked

428
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,960
by the human behavior that came thereafter that was directed towards me

429
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:23,280
because like as soon as I was saying this stuff they're like how dare you like

430
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,720
you're basically a bio terrorist if you're not adhering to the narrative and

431
00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:33,720
a lot of people were scared at this time and you know for me I was like I was

432
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:36,880
pretty freaked out for a couple weeks and then like the more I read about it I

433
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:42,040
was just like this is nonsense like there's there's nothing really to be

434
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,720
fearful of and then I'm sure you can relate to like the similar situation of

435
00:36:46,720 --> 00:36:52,200
kind of feeling I probably started following you in Carla maybe like 2021

436
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:57,200
and there was like this sense I think among a lot of us where it's like we're

437
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,880
fucked like this is pretty hopeless for a while but hopefully we're gonna

438
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:05,920
awaken some minds because like I remember you know I'm a big mixed

439
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:11,880
martial arts fan and you know I jujitsu practitioner and I like love watching

440
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:18,260
UFC and I remember Dana White was like the first big was leading the first big

441
00:37:18,260 --> 00:37:23,240
sports league to kind of try to get back open and try to have fights and I

442
00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:26,480
remember he tried to host something in California in the early COVID days and

443
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,560
this is when I really knew we were screwed you had American politicians

444
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,760
being like wow that's like really insensitive that you're trying to have

445
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,560
entertainment like this is a this is a somber year and it's like a somber year

446
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,880
and at this time I'm living in DC and you know none of my friends want to do

447
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:45,880
anything because they're all scared so it was just like a really so I moved to

448
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:52,040
Florida at the end of 2020 and have been in South Florida ever since and you know

449
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:57,600
really like it here and so that was kind of my journey into like you know red

450
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:03,160
slash orange pilling and you know the more and I've written about this issue

451
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:07,720
extensively and you know I found myself even looking at what I wrote about

452
00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:14,000
coronavirus hysteria and like even then in the early days I was giving way too

453
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:19,240
much credit to the people in charge like the the amount of scams that they've

454
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:25,360
been able to run over us has been impressive and even like buying into

455
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:30,360
these seemingly innocent narratives I think was a mistake in the first place

456
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:36,240
so I think that a lot of us on the bright side we learned a lot from this

457
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:43,160
era about human nature and about getting out in front of things and all that but

458
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:47,360
I hope that answers your question that long-winded answer no it answers it very

459
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:55,080
well and it is interesting like on the one hand you know well it's easy to be

460
00:38:55,080 --> 00:39:00,680
labeled a conspiracy theorist just for even asking a question that's outside

461
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:07,880
of the given stated narrative these days but you know sometimes you know it's

462
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:12,600
it's easy to think well god like these damn bastards like with this master plan

463
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,840
that they're that they're putting in motion but then I'm like you know what

464
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,720
but these fuckers aren't that smart but then like then the other side of things

465
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:26,520
is like wow but like we can barely you know coordinate a orderly withdrawal of

466
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:31,600
troops from a foreign land and that's like just the military you're working

467
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:36,160
with but how did like every global government and like every state

468
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:42,760
government somehow in the US managed to coordinate this fairly uniform response

469
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:51,880
to the COVID crisis where like I can't think of a time when the world leaders

470
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:57,080
those in power really quote came together like that and of course it was

471
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:04,040
for let's say authoritarian reasons but that was something that was kind of

472
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:08,240
shocking was like you know you want to think on the one hand there are these

473
00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:12,040
people pulling the strings on the other hand you think god but the puppets that

474
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,520
the that whose strings they're pulling just all seem like completely hapless

475
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:20,000
idiots but then on the other hand you're like wow this was a pretty coordinated

476
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:25,800
response and happened pretty quickly and somehow we reached this consensus with a

477
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:30,560
couple of outliers in terms of you know internationally but wherever all these

478
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,920
countries just kind of we're like yep this is what we have to do like we have

479
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:38,960
to adopt this totalitarian hand here and that's the only way you'll be safe and

480
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:45,480
it kind of goes back to like this like COVID was the perfect step in the

481
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:50,480
permacrisis I think for a lot of for anyone that has authoritarian leanings

482
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,760
like because I feel like that's what we've been living through at least you

483
00:40:53,760 --> 00:41:00,920
know like I'm in my early 30s as well it's just like this constant up this

484
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:06,400
this permacrisis where you go from I mean what we can go back to like 9-11 if we

485
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:12,320
want to like a horrific and terrible attack but one which was also used as

486
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:17,040
an excuse to not only invade many other countries massively expand the military

487
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:21,960
industrial complex and hugely enriched defense contractors but then also to

488
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:26,000
institute things like the Patriot Act and then you go into like okay great

489
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,520
financial crisis like and there were probably a couple of crises in between

490
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:34,680
there but then you go into that and you see a whole lot of other new rules and

491
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,960
regulations come up and then you get into like I don't know if the next part of

492
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:44,320
the crisis which was was like for a lot of people Trump like oh my god orange

493
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:50,040
man so bad like I'm no Trump fan I think the guy's a jackass but the response of

494
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:54,280
so many people on the left like truly becoming hysterical about him as though

495
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,280
he was just this anti-Christ I was like we're blowing some things a little bit

496
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:02,680
out of proportion here guys and then you go from okay finally Trump is out of

497
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:07,080
office and like we still heard about I mean we're still he still takes up so

498
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,920
much of the news cycle which is just astounding like I think the media realized

499
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,080
like wow this is just a cash cow we can keep on milking like keep Trump in the

500
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:19,960
news but then we had the you know the war well COVID the war in Ukraine and

501
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:24,080
now it's like okay we're starting to shift that permacrisis narrative towards

502
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:28,280
the climate crisis again which is always kind of an underlying narrative there

503
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:33,240
and it's like you know first of all the media loves a permacrisis because they

504
00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:37,920
make money like they need to run news to make money right the government loves

505
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,880
a permacrisis because with every new iteration of it they find a new way

506
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,400
that they're able to clamp down a little bit more and then there's this weird

507
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:51,600
group of people which is shockingly large who also seem to love the permacrisis

508
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:56,600
because I think people like if there is not a lot of meaning in your life you

509
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:01,920
search for meaning and in absence of any good source of meaning that you can give

510
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:07,840
yourself you want somebody else to hand it to you and these types of people make

511
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:13,840
whatever that particular crisis du jour is into part of their identity and and

512
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:18,320
it's become so integral to them that like they also become experts on the

513
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,520
subject like all of the you know the armchair doctors who were very very

514
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:27,320
certain that cloth masks would prevent this respiratory virus and all the

515
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,840
people with you know in the Western world with Ukraine flags in their bio

516
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:36,200
that are suddenly like military experts and you know people talking about

517
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,160
Ukraine in the Donbas region who literally just found out about it on

518
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:44,240
Wikipedia yesterday and but like it becomes part of their identity and then

519
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:48,640
it's so hard to shake and it's also so hard to ask questions about because any

520
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:53,160
questions you asked are not taken as just questions there are attacks on that

521
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:59,480
person's identity and like now I just wonder like what is the next permacrisis

522
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:05,520
like is it a combination of COVID lockdowns with like climate hysteria

523
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,920
turning into climate lockdowns like is that where we go next is that the you

524
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:15,320
know I guess where do you where do you see the evolution of the permacrisis

525
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:21,960
going to next and I guess put another way what is the state's next excuse to

526
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:27,240
try and remove more of our liberties from the individual yeah I think you're

527
00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:32,400
right that the the current permacrisis map is basically flipping the channel

528
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:38,480
between the climate hoax and COVID and trying to see which one's working better

529
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:43,640
it's hard to tell in like in Florida but I hear stories from people that live in

530
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:48,080
like major cities and especially like New York LA Chicago that a lot of people

531
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:54,440
are remasking which is sad at this point I think that these people should just

532
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:59,360
be mocked and ridiculed like I don't care if they have some type of you know

533
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,560
thing going on like it's just it's just ridiculous like I have no empathy left

534
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:10,520
for these people but it's um you know what what I fear is that because I think

535
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:16,400
that like you know these these crises have an expiration date you see it with

536
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:22,080
Ukraine now that it's really a hard sell and we talked about like you know the

537
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:27,600
depravity of the ruling class now you have you know you had this awful

538
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:33,280
wildfire in Maui and there's barely any federal resources getting over there

539
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:39,920
you know weeks after the game and they're in Congress now they know that

540
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:46,360
they're gonna struggle to have votes to pass the Biden administration's 24 billion

541
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:51,120
additional dollars for Ukraine because it's becoming deeply unpopular so what

542
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:56,000
they want to do is they want to tie the Maui funding to the Ukraine funding so

543
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,520
that everyone votes for it and it's like it's like an out for the people that

544
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:04,600
are the fence sitters so they can't like so they're their constituents can't be

545
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,360
mad at them so it's just kind of goes to show it's a good example of like what

546
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:15,360
goes on in our halls of power like the moral degeneracy but I think what I

547
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:20,080
fear with the next step of the permanent crisis is you're gonna have like these

548
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,680
type of I don't know if you want to categorize them with like as like false

549
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:30,120
flag events but you know this whole idea like a cyber pandemic like purposeful

550
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:37,480
destruction if things go south and you know although I want to see I'm looking

551
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:44,960
forward to I think in an inevitable era of like hyper Bitcoinization because you

552
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:51,440
know the you know our inflationary fiat bubble is eventually going to pop but I

553
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:56,680
think on the way down or on the way when when these people start to you know

554
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:02,320
retreat from the chaos they will have to impose some type of sabotage to get away

555
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,800
so that's what I think is to look out for like a type of some type of very

556
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:11,480
weird situation but I think that at the very least this COVID era has made a

557
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:18,120
lot of people skeptical of government force so I would I would be on the

558
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:22,200
lookout for something like that to happen this type of you know major

559
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:28,120
incident throughout the United States unfortunately you know these people

560
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:34,640
really have no shame at all and a very limited moral compass and they just like

561
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:41,120
don't really care about their fellow citizens whatsoever you know if you go

562
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:45,520
back to like the foundations of the Federal Reserve and US Monetary Policy

563
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:53,800
in the last hundred years it boils down to I don't want to sound like you know

564
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:58,800
socialist but it is true that our economic system is basically robbing

565
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:03,880
the vast majority of people through monetary policy to enrich the elites

566
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:11,920
and you know that's been working for a very long time and I think technology

567
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:17,800
has you know there's been some amazing innovations over the past few decades

568
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:24,120
that have helped to kind of like bail out the elites and kind of extend because

569
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:28,680
extend their their timeline of power because quality of life has definitely

570
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:34,080
increased especially in the United States but you know there's coming a point

571
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,680
in time when the bills do and you know they don't want to pay the bill they

572
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,640
want us to pay the bill so that's when things get kind of dicey and I think

573
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:44,920
we're going through that era right now you know they need to they need to pay

574
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:49,280
off all of these lobbyists all of these industries you know the military

575
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:54,600
industrial regime there they're hungry again you know one year of Ukraine or

576
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,160
one and a half years of Ukraine this isn't going to do it for them you know

577
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:01,360
they want another Afghanistan so it should be interesting to see how things

578
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,880
play out you know we already got pharma got paid so I think pharma's taken care

579
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:09,760
for a while but there's all these industries of the elites that are going

580
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:15,160
to want to get their chunk of change too so we'll see what happens you know it's

581
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,520
it's so interesting because you said like I don't want to sound like a

582
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:23,760
socialist but you made a very valid critique it's it's funny because like

583
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:31,200
we tend to think in these very like binary terms of like okay the general

584
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:35,000
assumption right now if you listen to actual socialists not because you're

585
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:39,640
obviously not a socialist but if you listen to actual socialists they will

586
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:43,960
refer to what we have now as this as capitalism right yes like hyper

587
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:49,840
capitalism but what we but what we have now is like not capitalist at all like

588
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:57,520
it's a kleptocracy run by a gerontocratic oligarchy and it's it's just

589
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:02,520
so funny because it's like you know people always say or the socialists you

590
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:05,840
know all real socialism's never been tried or real communism's never been

591
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:10,040
tried it's like fuck man real capitalism hasn't ever been tried like you

592
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:14,080
because you've always had the state I mean how can you possibly call something

593
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,920
a capitalist system when you have the state doling out massive massive

594
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,880
subsidies and picking the winners and losers and giving contracts to their

595
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:27,760
friends and freaking I mean not even to get into the insider trading like wow

596
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:33,040
we've got I'm glad Nancy Pelosi was able to retire as the number one trader like

597
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:38,080
of congressional history I mean really just hats off to her but it's just so

598
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:43,440
funny because it's like yes our the parts of our system that are capitalist

599
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:50,000
have enabled us to as you correctly identified achieve a massive improvement

600
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:54,480
in the standard of living and the those good parts of capitalism or I should

601
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:58,440
say the parts that are actually capitalistic of our system have lifted

602
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:03,400
up the majority of the world out of poverty it's you know it's one of the

603
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:10,040
safest most or the safest most peaceful time to be alive right like that

604
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:17,160
being said you have this massive state apparatus at the national level and the

605
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:23,800
international level which is just sucking actually so much air out of that

606
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:28,040
system like so much of the productivity of Jeff Booth talks about this in his

607
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,800
book the price of tomorrow like technology is naturally deflationary

608
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,440
everything should be getting more affordable for us and then you'll always

609
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,960
have the fiat economists who say like well but look at the price of flat

610
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:45,160
screen TVs like they're getting cheaper it's like okay thank you for that you

611
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:50,600
know that one example you know meanwhile everything else is getting more and more

612
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:54,360
expensive more and more you know out of reach if we're talking about things like

613
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:59,080
home ownership you know you used to be able to have one parent working

614
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:04,200
usually the husband and that parent was able to support his whole household with

615
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:10,280
two or three or five kids on one salary without working three other side jobs

616
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:14,920
by just saving being relatively frugal but still having a great standard of

617
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,920
living and being able to own a house and then pay it off and now we're at this

618
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:23,480
point where I think I think a lot of the kind of black pill energy that's out

619
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:29,080
there especially in some of these like the the folks younger than us like that

620
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:33,400
are coming up right now coming into the workforce they're realizing oh shit I

621
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,520
thought I was getting paid a lot like this new you know this job I have out

622
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:40,440
of college is paying me well but I'm never going to be able to afford to buy a

623
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:44,520
house like my parents have that's just it's just not possible and so I think

624
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:49,800
you start to see that's when you start to see like that apathy that hopelessness

625
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:56,680
I think leads more people towards this hyper leftist mentality of well then I

626
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:00,200
you know I just want it given to me and I'm not saying that everyone is the case

627
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:04,920
there are many many hardworking people in every single generation it's not a

628
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:09,400
generational thing it's just a societal thing where we're at in this cycle of

629
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:14,840
growth and decline of boom and bust which is just a it's not a bug of the fiat

630
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,680
system it's a feature right and so it's it's interesting because I think you're

631
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,200
right that the bills coming do I mean look at the look at the national debt

632
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,520
look at the interest on the national debt look at how much that is just like

633
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:31,880
going up exponentially at a certain point like something's got to give

634
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:36,440
luckily not luckily for everyone else but luckily if you're an american

635
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:42,120
like the us is still it's still you know number one like the us dollar is

636
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:48,280
still the world's reserve currency for now and like it or not everything else

637
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,800
will break before the dollar does like it's the prettiest horse at the glue

638
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:57,560
factory it's not it's still at the glue factory but like so many other currencies

639
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,760
are gonna collapse long before the dollar does so at least we've got a little

640
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:06,200
extra cushion but that also sucks if you're not in the you know in america

641
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:10,760
like we've done this for a long time just exporting our debt and our inflation

642
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:17,240
to the rest of the world to somewhat mask things at home and I have a well I mean

643
00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:20,440
it's a good thing our military is so massive and the military industrial

644
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,560
complex is well-fed because if that wasn't the case we

645
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,080
probably see other countries push back a lot harder and that's why our

646
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:32,120
military is so big right yeah well I think speaking of that and we're kind

647
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:37,880
of entering this um for the first time since probably the end of

648
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:43,560
world war two we're entering this multipolar environment where you have a

649
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:48,360
lot of where you have other players specifically china but there's others

650
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:52,360
that seeming that are like seemingly ready to contest

651
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,960
the global hegemony of the united states

652
00:54:55,960 --> 00:55:00,360
um I hear things about like this BRICS currency and whatnot and BRICS just

653
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,560
stands for uh it's just this coalition of

654
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:09,320
brazil russia india china and south africa but you know I just it seemed that

655
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:12,920
they all these countries share a very similar mentality so it's just like a

656
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:19,640
race to become the best fiat um it's like I don't know do you buy into any of

657
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,080
the stuff that they're like they're suddenly gonna create like gold backed

658
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:27,320
or bitcoin backed national currencies like I just don't see that

659
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,840
panning out especially like in an alliance because you have all kinds of

660
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:37,320
interests there um you know I hope at least that the future is just is just

661
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:41,640
bitcoin um and that they're like I just don't see like any

662
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:47,640
type of like intermediate term fiat that's going to you know

663
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:52,280
supersede the dollar I don't know what's your take on that

664
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:55,960
no it's it's an interesting question because like you see a lot of people in

665
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:59,320
the financial media who are like you know BRICS is what is really going to

666
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:03,160
destabilize the dollar and dethrone it but then a lot of people you know are

667
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,840
also saying oh and and it's going to be backed by you know a basket of currencies

668
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,040
a basket of their currencies right and then maybe also have gold reserves

669
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:14,280
backing it but it's like you really think that Russia and China and

670
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:18,440
India and Brazil and all of them and the plus countries however many of those

671
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:21,640
are really going to give each other the green light to go in and audit each

672
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:25,240
other's reserves of gold because that's what's going to be required

673
00:56:25,240 --> 00:56:28,680
if they want to actually back it by gold right like

674
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:32,520
well it's really could scam people they could always scam people and just say

675
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:36,760
that they have this amount of gold and trust me brah right well and that that's

676
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:41,000
what they would have to do because like we know we know that like China and

677
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:47,320
Russia as you know they're let's say a wary friend with each other right but

678
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:52,200
obviously they're you know they're still watching their own backs but I just I

679
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:56,600
find it hard to believe that they would really open up their books essentially

680
00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:01,080
to be like yep we we can promise we have this much gold and you can come here and

681
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:06,040
audit it every two years to be able to see like that being said I think it's

682
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:11,320
we have a lot of things that are kind of reaching this confluence at the same

683
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:16,440
time right like you've got this very obvious changing of the guard happening

684
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:22,920
in so many countries around the world where the gerontocracy which has I mean

685
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,360
look at a guy like like Joe Biden he's been in politics for

686
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:31,480
50 over 50 years like in some capacity I mean like conveniently you know entered

687
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,920
politics right around you know in the early 70s like you know what the fuck

688
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:41,480
happened in 1971 this whole but this whole political class was entering politics

689
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,720
at least in America where they're very old was entering politics in that early

690
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:51,640
70s or maybe early 80s era they've been in power in moving up that ladder since

691
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:57,880
then but at a certain point we all die right like and as long as some of these

692
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:01,800
people seem to live like improbably long I'm like seriously how is it that some of

693
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:05,560
the worst people like how is you know how is Kissinger like

694
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,600
outside of the whole technical but like how is Kissinger

695
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:11,560
He's 100 now I know he's 100 years old

696
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:15,480
like how how are you still alive dude like but

697
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:19,480
the point being we've got this whole political class

698
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:24,120
and that has been around for forever decades and decades longer than

699
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,560
most of us in the younger generation have been on this earth they've been in

700
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:33,960
politics but at a certain point they will die off right and what I'm curious

701
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:41,960
about is like what fills that vacuum because

702
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:46,200
like clearly there's a lot of power grabs happening in sort of this

703
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:51,800
last ditch effort to retain as much power as possible until you you know have

704
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,920
like literally we've got walking zombies like

705
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:58,040
Diane Feinstein who's like like what what are you doing

706
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:02,360
like you you are just run by your handlers and a lot of them are right

707
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:07,320
but who then fills that that power vacuum in terms of actual leadership

708
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:10,440
like and especially as we go into these next few election years

709
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:14,200
say you know presidential election next year but then you know

710
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:18,040
there's always another election that's you can always count on that right

711
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:23,240
like what happens that power vacuum who fills it is it the

712
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:28,280
you know the young people that are in office right now

713
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,880
like let's say on the left the AOC type people the you know

714
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:36,120
Ilhan Omar do we see that class move into those

715
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:39,880
even more high-powered positions or do we start to see just kind of

716
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:44,600
a rejection of the incumbent political class regardless of age and start to

717
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:49,160
see a new wave of people become interested in politics because they say

718
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,440
you know what I'm just I'm sick of this and it's not working and even though

719
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:56,040
you're a young person in politics you're still more you know you are working

720
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:59,080
with the old guard you're still just more the same like

721
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:02,520
where do you see that heading like who fills that vacuum and

722
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:09,480
and what comes next it's a great question because you know I spent I

723
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:14,840
think eight years in Washington DC and you don't really realize

724
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:18,760
when you're in there you don't realize the extent to which

725
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:24,200
everyone is kind of trapped by the uniparty once they enter Washington

726
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:28,520
and you know my background is in foreign affairs and

727
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:32,600
foreign policy US foreign policy and what you find is that like there's not

728
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:37,240
much of a difference really between these

729
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:42,760
think tank operations whether you know they support

730
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:46,280
conservative or liberal candidates the policies

731
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:50,520
are very similar and it's basically just all about

732
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:54,440
you know enriching the industry that supports them

733
01:00:54,440 --> 01:01:01,240
so I think that you know if you're a political leader today the best thing

734
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:05,480
you can do is to get people away from DC

735
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:09,240
and spend as much time outside of DC as possible

736
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:13,640
you know there's a lot of interesting institutions

737
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:21,080
that have kind of like unique ideas that don't have to do with

738
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:26,920
you know empowering the DC ruling class and almost all of them are based out of

739
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:29,800
outside of Washington DC and I don't think that's a coincidence

740
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:33,240
whatever a lot of things happen there that just corrupt

741
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:37,800
all of these legislators and it's hard to be optimistic for

742
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:41,800
you know especially people that are trying to change things on the federal

743
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:45,160
level whether they are the president of the United States running the

744
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:51,320
administrative state or some of it or you're a congressman or a senator

745
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:55,320
you're very limited mobility you know as much as we like someone like a

746
01:01:55,320 --> 01:02:02,120
congressman thomas massie there's only so few of them in DC

747
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:06,360
you know you can basically there maybe maybe you can make a case that out of

748
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:13,400
the 535 members of congress there's like 15 of them that are kind of cool and

749
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:18,840
have interesting ideas i think there's like one or two established like

750
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:22,600
bitcoiners you have synthia lumis who i think is

751
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:26,200
actually like well read on bitcoin and what maybe considers

752
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:31,400
of a bit pointer and then you have warren davidson who's um congressman who's

753
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:36,120
like half crypto have bitcoin but at least it's talking about bitcoin so i

754
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:42,120
think that like when it comes to uh you know i'm much more optimistic about

755
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:46,120
um kind of like things like what happened in florida where you just have

756
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:53,240
um more local power to make change in your community it's very tough on the

757
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:58,840
federal level but of course as you know the problem is that as much as our

758
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:05,480
our bill of rights and constitution grants um powers to the states through

759
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:11,160
the federal system the money printer is controlled by you know these very

760
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:16,760
centralized federal institutions um you know the power the the states have no

761
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:19,800
power to you know school up the money

762
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:24,280
printer so again you know bitcoin fixes this but

763
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:28,520
there's only so many things we can do in our politics

764
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:32,440
without breaking the money printer so i think that's

765
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:35,880
that's uh that's ultimately the goal at the end of the day

766
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:40,360
no i think that's it's really well said it's like uh you know we we sound very

767
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:44,680
uh repetitive and cliched oftentimes as bitcoiners you know

768
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:48,440
fix the money fix the world like but they you know there's

769
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:52,360
truth to that there's a whole lot of truth because so many things you know

770
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:56,760
you see people on on both sides of the aisle this is not exclusive to

771
01:03:56,760 --> 01:04:00,520
republicans or to democrats but depending on usually

772
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:04,680
if the opposition party is in power the other side

773
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:07,720
likes to complain about the state of things like that's just how it works in

774
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:11,720
this coca-cola pepsi-cola uh democracy that we have

775
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:14,840
is okay when you're when your guys in power everything's great and when the

776
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:19,480
other guys in power everything sucks and the reality is that it's like you

777
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:23,880
know the uniparty is much more pervasive than people realize

778
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:29,080
but more so than that it's that because the money is so broken

779
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:33,080
there's only so many changes that any individual in the executive branch can

780
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:35,800
make like sure they can sign a whole lot of executive orders

781
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:39,400
but as we all know those executive orders tend to be things that are more of

782
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:44,920
those uh i don't want to say superficial issues

783
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:48,280
but they tend to be the kind of the ones that get their base riled up

784
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:52,360
right and and supporting them like it's the whatever the hot topic of the day

785
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:56,520
is that everybody's really fighting about but those hot topics of the day are

786
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:59,560
typically meant to distract people from the fact that again

787
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:03,240
our money is broken like you are losing purchasing power

788
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:08,680
every year um and as much as we you know there are supposed to be checks and

789
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:13,800
balances in our uh you know in our system the there's

790
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:17,880
not really any checks and balances on the creation of the money which is

791
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:23,880
ultimately at the heart of all of it and so i i it's frustrating sometimes when

792
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:27,720
you see people who are you know on the left complaining that okay it's usually

793
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:31,640
on the left it's you know uh wealth inequality and uh why

794
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,840
doesn't the rich pay their fair share just to throw it some generic talking

795
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:39,800
points there and on the right typically more you see uh oh well you know

796
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:43,880
inflation and prices you see more talk about the federal reserve on the right

797
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:47,000
i think i think it's safe to say that but it's still it's a little bit

798
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:52,120
misplaced because people are talking about the the symptoms

799
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:56,200
and blaming those symptoms on the opposition party versus talking about

800
01:05:56,200 --> 01:06:01,560
the disease itself which they either are ignoring or don't know about

801
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:05,400
and they also don't know about any potential cures like bitcoin and now

802
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:09,720
bitcoin doesn't fix everything but it certainly does provide an escape

803
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:14,040
route for people who are willing to learn about it but i'm curious you know

804
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:17,640
because you i think have probably uh still a pretty large circle of people

805
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:21,400
who are very uh deeply ingrained in let's say the political

806
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:28,120
sphere that's safe to say and i'm curious um how many of them are really you

807
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:35,080
know uh orange pilled um where do you do hear a lot of talk about bitcoin as it

808
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:40,120
relates to monetary policy or is bitcoin still kind of seen as

809
01:06:40,120 --> 01:06:44,200
operating in a vacuum from the more uh the people who are more let's say

810
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:49,320
politically focused versus monetarily focused if that makes sense

811
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:56,680
bitcoin policy seems to only interest people in the political world

812
01:06:56,680 --> 01:07:03,560
during a bull run so it's like it was so fascinating because i talk about

813
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:08,440
bitcoin a lot on twitter and i have a politically engaged audience

814
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:14,440
and i would get you know and bitcoin was making its run to 60

815
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:21,720
a 16 9 000 and i was inundated with messages about you know how do i buy

816
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:25,560
bitcoin what exchange should i use you know what wallet should i use you know

817
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:34,040
all the the starter pack questions but when we're in a bear market compared to

818
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:41,160
you know the bitcoin's fiat exchange rate it's like silence and when i talk to

819
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:44,520
influential people about this they're like yeah you know i know that's the

820
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:49,240
solution but we need like a stop gap measure and i was like all right fine

821
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:57,000
fine but the the second you know you turn on your you know you you log into your

822
01:07:57,000 --> 01:08:02,440
favorite bitcoin price app and there's you know when eight percent green

823
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:05,320
candle then suddenly everyone's interested again

824
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:11,320
i think it has a lot to do with like this like human market psychology that it

825
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:14,920
makes sense why so many people struggle to

826
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:19,320
to save and increase their purchasing power because like

827
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:23,720
everyone wants to buy everyone says they want to buy the bottom and sell the top

828
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:29,160
but for whatever reason during bitcoin cycles and you know i like i said i

829
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:34,440
believe that there's no there's no exchange rate at which spending a

830
01:08:34,440 --> 01:08:38,120
dollar to buy bitcoin is a bad price especially

831
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:42,040
nowadays but it's just for whatever reason

832
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:45,320
there's always more interest and i'm sure like you've been through bitcoin a few

833
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:49,720
bitcoin cycles now too but yeah it's it's the same with the

834
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:53,800
political class like you know when bitcoin is that over 60

835
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:58,120
thousand us dollars per bitcoin there is so much

836
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:01,800
interest you know people want to bring me on their podcast let's talk about

837
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:05,560
bitcoin and when it goes down a little bit and

838
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:11,400
perhaps they had finally decided to throw some money in

839
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:16,840
they are not happy with me and you know they think bitcoin is a cia up and

840
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:19,640
you know a lot of people i think there's this like

841
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:25,160
there's a lot of laziness not just in i think dc world but just

842
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:28,680
people don't want to do their own research they want to be told what to do

843
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:33,160
um you know they for good reason lots of people

844
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:38,440
don't believe in anything anymore because you know they've been lied to by the

845
01:09:38,440 --> 01:09:41,640
people in charge and they're very skeptical about

846
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:44,600
everything and of course this also applies bitcoin

847
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:49,480
but you know to defeat that you could read about bitcoin and come to at

848
01:09:49,480 --> 01:09:52,680
least come to a basic level understanding that like

849
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:58,040
you know you can't just hack the whole protocol and steal all of

850
01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:02,760
the money it's just i wish but for whatever reason

851
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:05,800
it's very difficult to educate people on bitcoin but

852
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:11,720
i think during the next bull market it is a great time to capitalize on that as

853
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:15,720
much as we can get some like real sound policy

854
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:19,640
measures in place because like there's just

855
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:23,000
there's just nothing you can do to get people

856
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:27,080
like you know you can point them to the rabbit hole but they need to

857
01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:32,440
physically enter it if that makes sense it's just whatever

858
01:10:32,440 --> 01:10:39,800
i'm not some kind of like master at uh convincing people to do stuff anyway so

859
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:45,080
um perhaps if you have any ideas too uh i mean you've done a great job orange

860
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:50,200
filling a lot of people with a lot of your you and carlos great bitcoin

861
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:54,120
content and work but it's just you know and from

862
01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:58,760
from the policy and politics world these people are only interested as you kind

863
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:02,040
of said it's kind of like when the tv turns on and they're talking about

864
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:05,640
bitcoin they're interested in bitcoin and i guess i'll leave it at that

865
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:11,880
no it's it's so true it's uh it is a it's a tricky thing too because like i've

866
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:16,600
got friends on all sides of the political spectrum like i don't

867
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:21,080
you know give a shit what your politics are uh if you know if i like you as a

868
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:24,360
human being uh and i don't want to reduce you to your politics and

869
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:27,560
and i like that because then i get to actually hear things

870
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:35,480
from uh my friends that are completely like uh just on either side of the aisle

871
01:11:35,480 --> 01:11:40,040
and you know strangely you hear like uh when it comes to

872
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:43,880
lack of understanding that's where people on both sides the aisle find common

873
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:48,120
ground right what like if you when you see you know there are a lot of uh

874
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:52,200
you know a lot of anti-bitcoin people on both sides the aisle there are a lot of

875
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:55,240
pro-bitcoin people in both sides the aisle there are a lot of

876
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:59,160
pro-bitcoin people who find themselves i think the more you

877
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:03,160
go down that rabbit hole the more you start to realize the extent of the

878
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:09,320
uniparty to a certain extent you start to realize the prevalence of the state

879
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:13,960
and the pervasiveness of different means of control that exist within this

880
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:19,240
state apparatus and you know hearing things it's it is really

881
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:21,800
funny like you still like we you know that we're

882
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:26,040
early because you still hear the most cliched possible uh

883
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:29,960
anti-bitcoin things from people who really like all they know is what they

884
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:35,720
saw on uh you know 30 second hit on you know the tv

885
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:40,360
or they read in the new york times or whatever else

886
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:44,120
and it's you know on the left it's typically oh this is

887
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:47,800
something that's you know bad for the environment um and of course they

888
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:51,640
haven't looked into uh you know mining bitcoin with flared

889
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:55,160
gas or anything like that they haven't looked into

890
01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:58,440
load balancing the grid they they don't know about any of that stuff they just

891
01:12:58,440 --> 01:13:00,760
know what the headline said they probably didn't even read the whole

892
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:04,200
article uh and on the right maybe you get a little bit more i think you get this

893
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:08,920
from both sides though of the kind of like well you know uh either like the

894
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:12,840
the donald trump type view of well i don't like anything that goes against the

895
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:16,840
us dollar yeah it's used by criminals or just the same

896
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:21,640
old regurgitated talking points but it's always very clear like with those

897
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:25,640
types of people on either side whenever i hear those really just

898
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:29,560
basic and like the same talking points i've heard a

899
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:33,800
thousand times before it's a great opportunity to turn it back to

900
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:38,280
the problems that that person has with society in general like you know that

901
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:41,880
they've got a grievance and it's not that they don't like bitcoin it's just

902
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:45,320
that they honestly don't understand it and they're trying not to come off as

903
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:49,400
stupid like they just are so many people are really terrified of

904
01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:52,760
saying you know what i actually don't know that much like can i ask some

905
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:56,120
questions some people are great i appreciate that because that's how you

906
01:13:56,120 --> 01:14:01,400
learn but a lot of people i think in this day and age it's like no one

907
01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:05,880
wants to appear stupid or uninformed because they have all the resources to

908
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:10,840
do infinite hours of research onto any given topic

909
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:16,600
so you know it but it's always easier to regurgitate a couple sound bites

910
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:19,480
pretend like you kind of know what you're talking about and then go back to

911
01:14:19,480 --> 01:14:22,920
your cozy existence of living in your box and looking at the world through your

912
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:26,120
red and blue blinders and blaming the other party

913
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:30,520
when things don't go your way but what gives me you know i think the

914
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:34,280
orange pill is a bit of a white pill in a lot of ways

915
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:38,040
because it really does give you some hope because you see

916
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:42,440
like you go to a bitcoin conference and you see the diversity of people and i'm

917
01:14:42,440 --> 01:14:45,800
not talking about like the the bullshit kind of diversity like i'm not

918
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:49,400
talking about diversity quotas i'm talking about like actual diversity

919
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:53,720
of people from all over the world from all different backgrounds

920
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:57,160
who have been brought together by bitcoin and who are trying to build

921
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:00,760
tools to maximize our human liberty and

922
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:04,440
prosperity and that's like something that's really heartening so like

923
01:15:04,440 --> 01:15:08,600
it's easy to get blackpilled and be like you know what god we're just

924
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:13,560
we're so fucked like so many people are just have their NPC blinders on

925
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:15,960
they've been programmed they're going through the motions

926
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:21,480
we're fucked but then you see you know people who are the exact opposite of

927
01:15:21,480 --> 01:15:25,560
that and who are not only like talking the talk but they're walking the walk

928
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:29,320
and actually building things and i'm i'm so grateful to developers

929
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:32,680
who especially open source devs who are like you know what

930
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:35,800
i'm just gonna like fucking i'm just gonna build it like i want to see this

931
01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:39,960
thing and i'm just gonna build what this is and i wish i had those kind of

932
01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:43,400
skills i do not so i use the skills that i do have

933
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:50,120
but yeah like i i just really hope i so much appreciate especially those with

934
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:54,280
technical expertise that are there's a there's a lot of them that are working

935
01:15:54,280 --> 01:15:59,080
in bitcoin when they could be working for

936
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:05,160
google or apple making a ton of money you know being a corporate drone

937
01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:09,400
having a nice you know actually being able to afford a house which is rare but

938
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:13,880
but and i'm glad they're working on you know they have like a grant and they're

939
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:17,240
working on an important bitcoin project you know these people

940
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:22,760
need to be recognized more often um than they are and you know i get that some

941
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:28,920
of them actually prefer the anonymity which i even appreciate more so it's uh

942
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:35,160
it's very encouraging like that i agree with you like people i think if they are

943
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:40,680
on the fence about not even you know if they just want to learn about bitcoin

944
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:43,960
they should just come to a bitcoin conference to check it out like there's

945
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:50,040
there's no better vibes than at a you know a real like bitcoin only event or

946
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:54,120
conference or meetup i mean the best of people

947
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:57,800
obviously including you and carla and it was a pleasure to get to

948
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:02,360
meet you in the meet space in miami that was a that was a good time

949
01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:08,040
so i i want to i think like start to wrap things up but one thing before we close

950
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:12,440
out that i wanted to get your thoughts on was just as we go into this next

951
01:17:12,440 --> 01:17:17,000
election cycle now that we're kind of full on talking about bitcoin here

952
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:21,560
as we go into this next election cycle like we've seen just speaking of miami

953
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:24,680
um at the bitcoin conference down there we saw both

954
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:30,760
the veck and rfk both come out and with some very pro bitcoin

955
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:34,680
sentiments both of them starting accepting campaign donations

956
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:38,440
in bitcoin that's like a pretty huge moment

957
01:17:38,440 --> 01:17:42,280
um for us to see this and this is people again

958
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:46,440
one on the right one on the left that's great i like to see it that's

959
01:17:46,440 --> 01:17:51,400
depoliticizing bitcoin um to a certain extent

960
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:55,480
where do you see bitcoin fitting into the narrative going into this next

961
01:17:55,480 --> 01:17:59,880
election cycle as somebody who has you know seen a few election cycles

962
01:17:59,880 --> 01:18:04,760
being in the swamp being in dc like you know how these narratives are spun

963
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:08,280
do you think this is kind of the the cycle where

964
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:11,480
you know because we're also going into the having next year like we've got a

965
01:18:11,480 --> 01:18:16,120
having we've got the election we've got well probably

966
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:21,240
um an ongoing crisis or two that'll be spun up between now and then

967
01:18:21,240 --> 01:18:24,440
who knows maybe the same ones we have now who can say what the permacrisis will

968
01:18:24,440 --> 01:18:28,120
bring but where do you see the narrative going as far as

969
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:32,840
bitcoin as part of the election cycle um you know uh i know disantis also came

970
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:37,240
out on the twitter space he did uh and was like you know i'm i'm pro bitcoin

971
01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:40,680
like so that's that's three not fringe in any way but

972
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:44,600
mainstream candidates who are vocally pro bitcoin

973
01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:48,360
that's something that's never happened before how does that start to change the

974
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:54,840
narrative not just around uh the politics of bitcoin so to speak

975
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:59,000
but the conversation around money in general like does it give us

976
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:02,440
maybe a more nuanced discussion in the in the debates

977
01:19:02,440 --> 01:19:06,120
than we usually get which are so many times just superficial

978
01:19:06,120 --> 01:19:10,520
sound by debates that are completely worthless

979
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:15,720
it's so so i'm torn about this because i i think that

980
01:19:15,720 --> 01:19:21,880
um you know i think you're right to be critical of both sides which you know

981
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:26,360
during the trump presidency um especially during at the end during the

982
01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:30,360
covid era you know a lot of the inflationary

983
01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:35,880
stuff we're seeing today is due to passing those massive multi trillion

984
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:41,320
dollar stimulus bills um but realistically right now

985
01:19:41,320 --> 01:19:45,480
uh you know the polls at least if you believe some of them

986
01:19:45,480 --> 01:19:49,880
uh donald trump's a huge frontrunner and he's going to be having a conversation

987
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:54,680
with tucker carlson um wednesday i think at the same time when the

988
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:59,000
debates are happening so like it's not even clear i think

989
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:04,040
well no um because i don't think trump's gonna

990
01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:09,240
trump is very good at staying on message and he probably won't even

991
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:14,680
entertain the idea that anything you know he'll just say that

992
01:20:14,680 --> 01:20:18,520
the economy was great and biden's causing inflation like i think

993
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:22,520
that's all we'll get from a guy like trump what would be interesting is if we

994
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:31,160
see um a real contender emerge on the gop side that is willing to critique

995
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:35,800
both sides um so we'll see if that happens i think we'll know in the coming

996
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:40,040
weeks um if these debates can generate some

997
01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:43,800
energy for someone um because right now trump's like 40 points

998
01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:49,480
ahead and you know i think that what the you know the politics black

999
01:20:49,480 --> 01:20:54,280
pill i guess which is you know could be uh turn into a humanity white pill is

1000
01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:57,880
that maybe we'll see joe biden and dolan trump

1001
01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:01,960
debating and people will just be like oh my god you know they're both the

1002
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:05,400
prava right so right you're gonna see two

1003
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:09,400
the trump's gonna be almost 80 um you know if he gets the nomination is

1004
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:13,480
debating biden biden will be completely senile by then

1005
01:21:13,480 --> 01:21:17,480
and imagine those two yelling at each other about who's to blame for america's

1006
01:21:17,480 --> 01:21:21,400
economic woes maybe that'll be our route to americans

1007
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:26,520
discovering the fact that the money is broken more americans at least so i think

1008
01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:29,560
maybe they'll they'll let us in on the secret without

1009
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:33,640
intending to but but for sure with with these debates

1010
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:36,920
if there's an established contender there's certainly an opening

1011
01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:41,400
to target the economic policies that have led to

1012
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:47,160
you know our eggs becoming the next gold so we'll see

1013
01:21:47,160 --> 01:21:51,720
do you think uh because i i did see that trump was going to be you know uh

1014
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:56,600
not engaging in the debate uh which you know kind of he and biden are going by

1015
01:21:56,600 --> 01:22:00,200
the same playbook here of oh i'm not gonna from biden's side is like well i'm

1016
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:03,720
the president i'm not you know debating rfk or anyone else and

1017
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:08,040
trump's side is just like no like i'm you know he's doing he's doing his own

1018
01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:11,800
thing right uh but i would hope because i mean

1019
01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:17,480
tucker is somebody who is definitely on the road to being orange

1020
01:22:17,480 --> 01:22:22,680
pilled i think he he has a i've just i've heard that in personal

1021
01:22:22,680 --> 01:22:26,200
interactions with him like he's very curious about bitcoin he asks a lot of

1022
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:29,400
the right questions not superficial ones but deeper ones

1023
01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:32,440
and and he's a guy who i think has become very

1024
01:22:32,440 --> 01:22:37,640
uh disillusioned with establishment media and the establishment in

1025
01:22:37,640 --> 01:22:40,920
general uh more so recently as he's kind of

1026
01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:44,760
completely stepped out of that role uh or was pushed out of that role however it

1027
01:22:44,760 --> 01:22:49,320
went down do you think there's any chance that

1028
01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:52,920
tucker actually kind of pushes trump on like you know listen

1029
01:22:52,920 --> 01:22:58,520
your administration was overseeing uh the treasury in the federal reserve uh

1030
01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:02,600
during the time where all of this massive amount of money was printed for

1031
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:06,360
these stimulus packages and you know does that conversation come

1032
01:23:06,360 --> 01:23:11,080
around to bitcoin in any sense or do you think it's going to go more

1033
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:14,680
boilerplate and where we're going to see the actual action is okay

1034
01:23:14,680 --> 01:23:18,200
in these smaller debates where neither biden nor trump are present

1035
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:21,640
and we've got both republicans and democrats you know debating each other

1036
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:24,840
in their pods is that where we're going to kind of see

1037
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:30,440
uh the real action happening it will be interesting to see i i know that

1038
01:23:30,440 --> 01:23:34,920
before tucker was silenced and kicked out of fox news

1039
01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:40,520
he had done a couple segments and had mentioned bitcoin i mean he interviewed

1040
01:23:40,520 --> 01:23:48,360
buckelle yeah that was huge yeah and he seems very i think you're

1041
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:53,240
right he seemed very open to the idea that like he should further explore

1042
01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:59,800
monetary policy and you know he's he had all the right questions um the thing is

1043
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:07,000
with trump he has yet to really grill him on anything so i i think that

1044
01:24:07,000 --> 01:24:11,720
will i think we'll see if we watch the interview we'll see immediately if he's

1045
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:16,440
like how he sets the tone because there's also this idea that

1046
01:24:16,440 --> 01:24:19,480
i've heard floating around which is just rumors that

1047
01:24:19,480 --> 01:24:25,320
um he feels the need to kind of like be on the side with trump because he views

1048
01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:29,400
him as the eventual nominee and you know

1049
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:33,640
trump is a very sensitive guy so he doesn't want to

1050
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:39,640
you know lose access but but i think that i i think that hopefully

1051
01:24:39,640 --> 01:24:44,280
tucker will be tough with him and do the american people's service and

1052
01:24:44,280 --> 01:24:48,280
at least holds him accountable for some stuff but i i think we'll definitely

1053
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:52,120
see early on um because tucker is really his own man so

1054
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:55,720
i you know i i hope that that he goes for it because you know the american

1055
01:24:55,720 --> 01:24:59,160
people deserve transparency from both sides

1056
01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:03,960
from both people that want to be president um but yeah i think we'll

1057
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:09,560
see it immediately um but yeah i think you're right that it's just

1058
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:13,640
it's inevitable that you know you can only even if people are running on this

1059
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:17,000
you know endless fiat treadmill all day they're

1060
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:20,760
they're going to just start asking more and more basic questions about why they

1061
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:23,400
can't afford anything why they need to take out

1062
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:29,000
um you know a a loan to pay for further new tv over you know

1063
01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:33,240
an eight-year payment plan period so i i think that these questions will

1064
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:37,320
inevitably surface and you know then then bitcoin wins but um we can

1065
01:25:37,320 --> 01:25:43,640
definitely accelerate adoption if our if people in positions to do so can

1066
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:45,960
can at least help us on this mission a little bit

1067
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:50,520
all right i mean at least we see there's no doubt that the overton window

1068
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:54,440
is shifting like and it's shifting in a a good direction where

1069
01:25:54,440 --> 01:25:58,200
bitcoin is not just this fringe thing anymore bitcoin is something that

1070
01:25:58,200 --> 01:26:01,240
presidential candidates in the u.s are talking about

1071
01:26:01,240 --> 01:26:03,960
and it's something that presidential candidates around the world are talking

1072
01:26:03,960 --> 01:26:08,040
about um you know down in argentina uh like this is

1073
01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:13,880
this is something that is no longer just uh a small subset of people this is

1074
01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:19,800
fully in the mainstream uh dialogue i would hope just back to tucker and

1075
01:26:19,800 --> 01:26:23,160
trump i would love to see tucker ask trump about

1076
01:26:23,160 --> 01:26:27,720
that fucking godawful nft collection scam that

1077
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:31,160
my god that but i highly doubt as you said he want

1078
01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:34,840
tucker probably wants to tow the line have trump back on keep those views

1079
01:26:34,840 --> 01:26:37,800
flowing so he probably won't be like you know what the fuck was up with that

1080
01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:42,680
nft collection man uh but maybe a guy a guy can dream right

1081
01:26:42,680 --> 01:26:47,560
um well before we close up is there uh first of all thank you because this

1082
01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:52,760
has been a pleasure talking with you um great to get your insights um and

1083
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:57,160
just uh for the audience to learn more about you as a human being and

1084
01:26:57,160 --> 01:27:01,560
also a bit coiner um where should people go to find you so

1085
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:06,440
they can check out your work um feel free to uh to pump anything that you

1086
01:27:06,440 --> 01:27:10,200
want in terms of the newsletter or your twitter to uh all the massive

1087
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:13,640
audience of the bitcoin podcast uh growing by the day

1088
01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:17,960
um but yeah where should people go to find you now i so much appreciate you

1089
01:27:17,960 --> 01:27:21,640
having me on and it's gonna be it's gonna be huge undoubtedly

1090
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:25,080
you'll have uh explosive growth if you don't get

1091
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:29,640
fan from every platform by the end of the year but no no i think it's gonna be

1092
01:27:29,640 --> 01:27:34,520
awesome um and i so much appreciate uh it was a great conversation um to

1093
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:39,160
read all my latest work you just go to dossier dot today that's kind of where

1094
01:27:39,160 --> 01:27:43,880
um all of my non shitposting goes i'm also on twitter just at

1095
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:48,920
jordan and shacktell no spaces um but yeah appreciate it good

1096
01:27:48,920 --> 01:27:52,680
conversation is always absolutely i'll link all of your stuff in the show notes

1097
01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:55,880
as well so people can find it if they don't know how to spell dossier

1098
01:27:55,880 --> 01:27:59,720
you don't need to be embarrassed out there people it's okay um but thanks so

1099
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:03,560
much um so at this point i'd like to thank everybody for joining us for this

1100
01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:08,760
episode of the bitcoin podcast bitcoin podcasts are abundant but bitcoin is

1101
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:12,520
scarce so thanks for joining in to listen to this one

1102
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:18,840
and that's a wrap on this bitcoin talk episode of the bitcoin podcast if you're

1103
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:24,680
interested in sponsoring the bitcoin podcast head to bitcoinpodcast.net

1104
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:28,120
you can find me on noster by going to primal.net

1105
01:28:28,120 --> 01:28:32,680
slash walker if you want to follow the bitcoin podcast on twitter

1106
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:37,160
go to at titcoin podcast and at walker america

1107
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:41,560
you can also find the video version of this podcast at youtube.com

1108
01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:48,760
slash at walker america and at walker america on rumble bitcoin is scarce

1109
01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:54,040
there will only ever be 21 million but bitcoin podcasts are abundant

1110
01:28:54,040 --> 01:28:57,960
so thank you for spending your scarce time to listen to

1111
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:19,320
another bitcoin podcast until next time stay free