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These things have blow-off tops, right?

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And it's only after a blow-off top in terms of chaos

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and just the table being flipped over.

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Are you able to have new lines in the sand

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for another 80 years of civilization to grow on top of it?

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We're gonna live through it.

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We're gonna live through the transition of the dollar,

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whatever that means.

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We haven't seen the end of this fourth turning.

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There's no way.

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Bitcoin is like here, it's end of the world tech, right?

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These corporates, they don't have the balls, dude.

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They don't have the testicular fortitude to ride it out.

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The greatest hope for Bitcoin is that it separates money from state.

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And if it separates money from state, every state is going to need some Bitcoin.

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Nothing can stop an idea whose time has come.

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All the pieces just line up together with such a beautiful, simple design that worked.

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It will be there when people need it.

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And then we'll see the next great wave of adoption when shit hits the fan again.

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Rob Wallace, Robert Wallace.

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You sound like a Scottish warlord.

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I think I come from a line of them, hopefully.

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That's what I tell myself, at least, right?

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Yeah, there we go.

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Well, William Wallace and Robert Bruce, right?

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This is why my brain is going there, because you split the difference with both of them.

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It's kind of like 50% Scottish in me.

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I'm like most Americans. I'm a dirty mutt. My wife is a purebred Balkan, like literally,

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uh, like it's amazing. Just, you know, running with thoroughbred. I am like the mangy mutt,

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but it has its benefits. I think I'm mainly the product of like generations of, uh, you know,

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let's just say non-consensual Viking, uh, extramarital affairs. Like it's like Scandinavian

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and then a bunch of British Isles, mostly Scottish. So like, you know, you put the pieces

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together, it usually means one thing.

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I'm right there with you on the

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dad's side. English, Scottish,

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Norwegian, mom's

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side, heavily Polish.

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So, got that Slavic

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as well. Won't hold that against you.

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Right, dude. We're going to have a greater GDP

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per capita than Japan soon.

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So, Poland's on the rise.

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Poland has actually been crushing it.

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Because Poland has remained

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very based. And I think this is

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what I've told people a lot in terms of Eastern

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Europe broadly.

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not just Poland specifically, Poland's a really interesting case too. If you just like,

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we look at also, you've seen the chart like Venezuela versus Poland. It's like socialism

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versus not socialism. Like which one works, you know? But more broadly, I think Eastern Europeans

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have this incredible kind of natural immune system against wokeism and just socialist communist

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bullshit. Cause it's like, they're like, we've seen this movie before. We literally lived it.

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Like we had friends, family who died because of it. We know this. We've seen the movie before,

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we're not doing it again we're not falling for this meanwhile western europe and much and much

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of just the western world in general is like oh yeah well let's give this a try what's the worst

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that could happen like it's not like we've tried this many many many many times before like maybe

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this time it'll work great it's tiresome but i think eastern europe is rising i think western

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europe is falling and it's going to widen at least that's my opinion absolutely uh from even even

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with what's going on in Ukraine, I mean, the devs are still coming out of Ukraine, right? I mean,

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like they've got an immense amount of talent and they know how to work hard. And of course,

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they've learned from the horrors of the not too distant past. And because of that, they have a

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bright future ahead of them. Whereas the Western Europe needs to go through all and learn those

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lessons, which they are rather quickly, right? It's happening right now for them. And especially

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we'll see as they have decimated their own energy infrastructure, particularly Germany,

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how they are going to fare with this situation we got going on now.

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Germany is such a painful thing to watch.

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Like, let's leave aside them selling how much,

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it was like 50,000 Bitcoin that they sold at like 56K of memory,

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or maybe it was 58K, maybe they were very good at the prophecy level,

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if I remember correctly.

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Of course it was, you know, 58K gang remains undefeated.

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I still think that's the bottom, this cycle, as a sidebar.

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I still think it's 58K.

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But, I mean, leaving aside that massive blunder,

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which will be looked back on and written about in the history books or by the history AI scholars.

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Just like the whole decommission, like let's decommission all our nuclear power plants to, you know, stop boiling the oceans or something.

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It's like you're turning off the cleanest form of energy humans have figured out how to use yet in favor of firing up more coal plants and being more dependent on Russian LNG.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Like it's insane, man.

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We live in an upside down Orwellian world in so many ways.

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100%.

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And what's also crazy is that North Street pipeline was blown up, right?

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And they haven't gone for anybody's head for that.

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It wasn't the Russians, because if it was the Russians, we would have heard about it, right?

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So you look at this whole entire energy strategy that America possibly has been playing since 2022 when that happened.

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I mean, are we making them more dependent on us for our LNG since then?

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I mean, that's a really big question.

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And do you think that there's 5D chess going on right now with this whole global energy situation and the Strait of Hormuz?

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Or is this just a giant boondoggle that we've got ourselves in and we have no way out of?

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Oh, it's so hard to know.

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You know, what's that old saying?

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Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.

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And I usually operate with that heuristic when dealing with anything the government is doing, anything any governments are doing.

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But then it's important to remember that while broadly governments may be incredibly inept, incredibly inefficient, incredibly bureaucratically bloated, right, and not able to actually get things done,

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there are elements in every government which are incredibly efficient, incredibly effective, and incredibly long-term with their thinking.

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like you look like you look at the you know if you compared like the the general let's say the

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dmv part of the u.s government versus like the u.s military you know the dmv versus seal team six

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right that's maybe that's like take the ends of the spectrum right like seal team six is a fucking

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hyper elite group of fighting machines the likes of which the world has never seen the dmv is like

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the slop of the slop of the slop of the slop of the slop you know and so it's like you got to

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remember my point here being it's like I want to attribute a lot of things just to general

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incompetence but then I remind myself hmm they're not all incompetent and incompetence is a great

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foil for a great you know a great shield a great excuse a great cover for the hyper competent

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getting exactly what they want so I think a lot of this is pretty contrived yeah you know what I

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mean, that's that's my take. I don't know what yours is. I mean, Simon Dixon has really been

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doing the rounds recently on the Bitcoin podcast, and he attributes all this to the financial

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industrial complex. Right. And the fact that they want to take America down from its role as the

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hegemon and make it a regional power and sort of create a series of regional powers around the

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world in which they can more easily control. Because if you do have a top dog like America,

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who is able to self-direct and put its great resources to its own benefit,

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that is, I guess, a challenge to transnational power.

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So it would make sense.

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I mean, it does seem as if we've been on this path for 25 years plus now, right?

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I mean, I think we're both around the same age

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and had our youth sort of stained by 9-11, right?

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Like that happened when we were kids,

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and it's been a straight trajectory sort of sloping downwards since then.

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in many ways. And it can't be there. There are players, a part of this government who outlasts,

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of course, presidents. And it does seem as if they are steering the ship in a certain direction for

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at least the last quarter century. Yeah, it's it's hard not to be conspiratorial these days,

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Rob, because all of the conspiracy theories have turned out to not be conspiracy theories at all.

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Like, you know, yesterday's conspiracy theory is just tomorrow's headline. Right. And I feel like

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that really started accelerating with COVID.

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And honestly, none of this,

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I think none of the uncovering,

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let me take a step back.

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We're both in, let's call it new media,

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independent media, right?

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For those who don't know,

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you're a founder, you run Bitcoin News,

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probably fastest growing or biggest,

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you know, we were talking about this before,

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like fastest acceleration, arguably,

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non-Bitcoin podcast related, of course,

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you know, but Bitcoin News related.

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You guys have an incredible trajectory.

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I want to get into that later,

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but we're in new media, right? We're in new media and new media has just completely decimated

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legacy media. You look at, you look at viewership numbers, even during, you know, when people were

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actually like watching legacy news more still during COVID, just because it's what they were

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used to more. Even at that time, it was only a couple of years ago, but there were high,

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a lot higher numbers at that time. They've just dropped off a cliff. Like I'm pretty sure 50%

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of CNN's viewers are probably just captives in airports, right? It's like they didn't choose to

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have that monitor on, but they've completely lost the control of the narrative. And that's allowed

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for so many, you know, truthful narratives to actually find their way in. It's no longer a

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one-to-many, one-way broadcast. It's a many-to-many, two-way dialogue. And I think that's completely

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changed the, let's say the power calculus when it comes to, you know, Hey, look, we are not going to

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put up with the bullshit that you're spouting right now. We know it's crap. And I'm just going

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to go ahead and record a live stream on my phone where I'm, uh, have, you know, I'm mildly autistic.

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I'm going to go through and do a bunch of research that the media didn't bother to do. I'm going to

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break this down. Exactly. I'm going to uncover all this stuff. Like citizen journalists have

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changed the game. And I don't think the genie goes back in the bottle. I think maybe the only

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thing that hurts that is the prevalence of AI slop and just people being tired of wading through it.

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But I'd love your opinion on this. My thought is that in the coming years and decades,

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as AI slop proliferates more and more and more, it's already like the amount of AI generated

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content is larger than the amount of human generated by like quite a lot already. But

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as this proliferates more and more, I think reputation, proof of personness, proof of work

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becomes exponentially more valuable.

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It's already valuable.

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I think it becomes even more so.

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I'd love your opinion, though, in like a hyper AI world is like,

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does the person matter or does it just become irrelevant?

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I think the person matters to the people that matter.

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You're going to have a lot of a lot of average people.

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I'm sorry to say, but they won't be able to tell the difference

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between an AI person and an actual person.

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and they'll be uncaring as to consuming content from either.

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Whereas if you're slightly more educated or intelligent,

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I mean, even now, if you read something that's AI written, right,

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like something, a flag will go off in your head and you're like,

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oh, do I want to read any further?

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And sometimes you're like, okay, this is actually has some valuable information and whatnot,

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but you can, it has a bit of a stench and you know it from the get-go.

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So I completely agree with you that I think everyone right now,

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we don't really know what the job market is going to look like

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in terms of AI within the next five to 10 years.

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But one thing you can do is start a personal brand,

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you know, as ridiculous as that sounds,

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everybody should have their own Bitcoin podcast.

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You know, I think you're a big proponent of that.

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But it's because you want to put your voice out there, right?

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And you don't want to just pop up in a couple of years

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once AIs outnumber us 10 to 1 on all these social platforms.

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You want to start getting and making your connections too

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because the amount of trust is going to take

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in order to make a new online friend

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for anybody who's discerning,

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the barriers are gonna be so much higher

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than they are right now.

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Again, we're in a bear market right now.

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Bitcoiners are looking for stuff to talk about

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and to share.

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And so you can go out there

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and you can make waves right now.

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It's an opportunity.

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Try something new.

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Look what Julian Figueroa did this last year

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with his YouTube channel.

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Absolutely insane.

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And he is connecting to an audience

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that is completely brand new,

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that had never been exposed to this type of content,

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before and he's making it relatable, enjoyable and easy to consume. So there is an opportunity

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right now. And I do think that if you wait, even if you don't want to put yourself out there,

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even you can even put yourself out there as a nim right now. And I think you'll be much

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further ahead than others who are too scared to in a couple of years.

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I couldn't agree more. Yeah, shout out to Julian.

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I just checked his YouTube and the exit manual.

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For those that aren't familiar, you should go and subscribe to it.

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He's been, Julian has been doing an incredible job with content creation for a long, long time.

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Like really, he's been reaching outside of the echo chamber for a long time, even on Instagram.

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Like it's mostly shitcoin shills on Instagram, right?

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Julian's been bringing Bitcoin only signal there, high production value content for a long time.

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That gets hundreds of thousands or millions of views.

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Really great.

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Started Git based with Adam O'Brien and Isa.

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That crushed it.

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the exit manual struck some other nerve i think and i don't even know if he could have uh i gotta

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have him back on it's been too long since he's been on the show i don't even know if he could

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have predicted the trajectory because it's been so impressive and it's like 40 videos he's at 41.4

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thousand subs uh let's see what else total views 2.25 million so far in like less than a year yeah

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Like with 40 videos, that's super impressive, super impressive.

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So like, that's the point.

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You can just go out and do things.

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You can just go out and start a Bitcoin podcast.

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And I think you're exactly right, too, about the opportunity at this particular time.

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Because we are in sort of this weird bear market.

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The vibes are weird.

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It's the best time to build, right?

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The best time to build is when the hype is low.

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You also, you know, as you know, it's like you want to work out some of the kinks when you have less eyeballs on you.

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You know what I mean?

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Like it's a, it's better, better to work them out early, but I want to do another little

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vibe check with you here just because, okay, again, Bitcoin news, you founder, you're running

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the thing.

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You're like, you're the man you do.

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You put out a ton of content.

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You guys do a ton of live streams too.

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People should go and follow you.

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They're not already.

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I'll make sure to link everything in the show notes for later.

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I want to talk to you have your finger on the pulse better than most by the nature of

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your work.

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There's a lot of noise out there right now.

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There's presumably a lot of signal in between.

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what are you finding right now what is like peaking your interest specifically whether it be

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you know specifically about bitcoin maybe it's something larger that dovetails into bitcoin

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what are you like what are your ears really perking up on that you think okay like this is

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the signal amidst all this slop yeah i think there's a lot of cool stuff going on in the

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background of course uh just had odell on to ask him about as we were talking about before spark

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the new wallet for Primal and they are the wallet for or the infrastructure for a lot of other

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wallets happening right now of course wallet of Satoshi as well and so we have Spark we have this

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new platform ARK of course and Lightning is the sort of interconnective tissue for for all of them

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so with all these different implementations we are going to see Bitcoin payments become easier

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and easier. And I am someone who thinks you should not be afraid to spend some Bitcoin,

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you know, go out there, get used to it, right? As people who have never made a Bitcoin transaction

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before, and I've had Bitcoin for years, there are a lot of them out there. And it's, it's absolutely

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insane to me that it could, could be this way, because you have no freedom if it's just sitting

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for ever and ever. And you don't have the skills or the comfort level to go out there and use it

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need be right it's like when when stuff hits the fan you want to have the muscle memory to be able

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to open up a wallet send some bitcoin send a receiver transaction and be able to get on with

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your day and not have to fumble or because you know how scary it is the first time you send bitcoin

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right like you're double checking you're reading each letter and you want to make sure that you

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don't mess up in any way after a while it becomes like second nature so bitcoin is like here it's

295
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it's sort of it's end of the world tech right it's like your transition to a new world tech

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And I mean, that's what first got me into it.

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I've been sort of, as I think you can tell from the beginning of this conversation, a bit of a conspiracy theorist.

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Happy to admit it.

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I have been thinking that America might go into a hyperinflationary tailspin since at least 2010, 2011.

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Right. That's when I first got wind of all these things.

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And I've been thinking in this way.

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It's like how best to prepare, how best to get yourself ready for a world that is rapidly changing and you see it more and more every single day.

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So Bitcoin needs to go out there and be used. So any new tech that allows that to happen is very nice.

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Other big stories that are interesting. I mean, today just came out Coinbase.

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You can now use Bitcoin as collateral for a mortgage through Coinbase. Right.

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That's pretty huge deal. We've got Morgan Stanley with launching their own Bitcoin ETF.

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and they got six seven trillion dollars assets under management They if they tell their clients to put a 2 allocation they have a Bitcoin ETF that is three times the size of BlackRock the most successful Bitcoin or ETF

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launch of all time, right? So there's all these things. It's happening now, right? On the highest

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scale, on the lowest scale, if you look over at Africa, the amount of just meetups and organizations

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that are just popping up all over there, there's a lot of encouraging things. It's just like the,

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it's the Bitcoin Twitter, I think, which is having the atrophy right now, whereas there's just so much

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good stuff happening everywhere else. There's plenty of reasons to be bullish and excited for

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the future. And we're here for a reason. We want to make the world a better place. We think that

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fixing the money fixes the world. And if we're able to get the word out and just have one more

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person understand that, it could unlock a whole bunch of positive effects for the planet.

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Amen to that. Did you say you were, have you been in Bitcoin since like as long as you said you

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started learning about hyperinflation? Oh, I was, I wasn't trying to like dox, you know,

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just, just curious, like what can you talk a little bit about that? And then maybe just like

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at what point you started the Bitcoin news part of your journey, like how far along into your

320
00:22:02,812 --> 00:22:09,852
Bitcoin journey? Yeah. So, I mean, I was studying at Tufts during the great financial crisis. Um,

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I remember coming back to my fraternity during the fall of 2008 and seeing Hank Paulson come on TV and say, if we don't give the banks a trillion dollars, there's going to be tanks on the street.

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We're going to have to declare martial law.

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And that just hit me as a complete lie.

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I knew something was horribly fishy, and it just sank to the bottom of my stomach, knowing that I'm being lied to right now.

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We're all being lied to, and we're all being robbed because that's our money they're going to take to pay those bankers.

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And of course, that was the time of Ron Paul and the Fed.

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And of course, not long after that was Occupy Wall Street.

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So there was that there's a general feeling, the Tea Party of we've been sort of going down the wrong path here since 2001 with 9-11 and the global war on terror.

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This is an opportunity for us to turn things around, use this crisis to our benefit, learn about hard money, Austrian economics at that time.

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I thought I thought gold and silver were the answer, right?

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as a college kid. I didn't have like much money to buy gold and silver with, but I got some silver

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coins and I thought, oh, I'm preparing for hyperinflation. I thought hyperinflation was

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common, dude. In 2010, I thought it was going to be here by 2012. I was reading a lot of like

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poor Stansberry, those newsletters and whatnot. And they had me convinced like this, we were about

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to hit the fan. But that didn't happen. That didn't happen. Right. So I was studying Chinese

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at the time. I thought I wanted to like work for the government to be a diplomat. And then I went

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to China and said, wow, this, this is a country on the rise right now. This is on the come up.

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Like the there's cranes everywhere you look, there's entrepreneurship on the lowest to highest

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levels. You can really do what you want. And so as a college kid studying abroad there, I decided,

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oh, I'm going to stay here. I'm going to stay in China. So I lived in China for four years

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in Shanghai. And so started teaching English, had a band, wrote for a magazine, started a YouTube

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channel doing comedy stuff. I was the shooter, editor, director for a channel called Donnie Does.

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He now works at Barstool. He's been a Barstool since 2016, 2017. But it was like the Borat shtick,

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right? Like he was a drunken Bostonian who woke up in China and needed to work his way back. So

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we would like, he was a kindergarten teacher. That was our first episode. And so I brought my

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Cameron to him teaching kindergarten. He's teaching little kindergartners to teach to say,

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Yankees suck. Yankees suck. Right. We had these Chinese kindergartners.

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So, I mean, that was amazing. Right. And so I lived in China from 21 to 25. And it was really

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it was peak vibes. They had the the Olympics before I was there, but then they had the World's

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Fair in Shanghai and people were welcome. This was before Xi Jinping. Then by the time 2014,

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or so came, I was like, okay, if I stay here for a couple more years, then I'm just going to like

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be stuck in China for forever, right? It's gonna be very hard to acclimate back into America and

353
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get my whole life going over there. So I decided to leave. And it was actually pretty good timing,

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because when she took over, that was bad news. One example I like to use is foreigners, like

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Shanghai is a huge party city. So there's lots of great bars and clubs. When she took over,

356
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they would send cops into some bars or clubs, take out 10 random foreigners, clip their hair,

357
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test it for drugs. And if it was positive, they'd kick them out of the country.

358
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So it became much less friendly to foreigners. Before, we could do whatever we wanted. We were

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throwing party buses. We would just jam like 80 college kids onto a double-decker bus and take

360
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them to like three bars across the city in the night and charge like 50 bucks a head and give

361
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them all panda hats. It was a really fun time and like stuff that you can never get away with in

362
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New York City. And I absolutely loved and relished that opportunity. But I still had in the back of

363
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my mind that like, oh, wow, I knew about inflation and the dollars of scam and all this stuff. And so

364
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I was thinking like, what is going on here? How are they able to keep this whole entire system going?

365
00:26:10,792 --> 00:26:17,752
Came back to New York City in the mid 2010s, started working in advertising and marketing,

366
00:26:17,752 --> 00:26:25,132
doing that stuff. And that's when actually I bought my first Bitcoin in 2016. Went to a

367
00:26:25,132 --> 00:26:31,612
Bitcoin ATM at the Southside Seaport in Manhattan, put in $1,000 and got 2.2 Bitcoin.

368
00:26:33,272 --> 00:26:39,772
But I had no idea what I was doing, right? I had no idea about cold storage or how to properly take

369
00:26:39,772 --> 00:26:44,552
care of your Bitcoin. So I was just walking around with a QR code, a printout from the Bitcoin ATM

370
00:26:44,552 --> 00:26:45,752
in my backpack, right?

371
00:26:45,812 --> 00:26:47,372
And so it was worth a thousand bucks at the time.

372
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So, I mean, it's a decent chunk of change,

373
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but it's nothing too crazy.

374
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But a year later, I was traveling.

375
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I had this QR code in my backpack

376
00:26:56,052 --> 00:26:57,772
in the airport in Las Vegas.

377
00:26:57,772 --> 00:27:00,212
I put my backpack down.

378
00:27:00,372 --> 00:27:01,852
I put $5 in a slot machine,

379
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pulled the lever,

380
00:27:03,152 --> 00:27:03,912
lose the $5,

381
00:27:04,272 --> 00:27:06,432
look down and my backpack was stolen.

382
00:27:07,612 --> 00:27:10,092
So that's my donation to the Bitcoin network,

383
00:27:10,252 --> 00:27:11,292
those 2.2 Bitcoin,

384
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never getting those back.

385
00:27:13,332 --> 00:27:16,732
But that was right as like it started to go parabolic.

386
00:27:16,992 --> 00:27:23,012
It went from a thousand grand or one grand a piece to 20, you know, in that fall.

387
00:27:23,312 --> 00:27:27,712
And it was that made me kind of bitter having that Bitcoin stolen from me.

388
00:27:27,952 --> 00:27:29,652
And so I was like, oh, I don't need Bitcoin, whatever.

389
00:27:30,132 --> 00:27:32,492
So turn my back on it for, I guess, two years there.

390
00:27:32,552 --> 00:27:36,932
And then in 2020, we were locked in our homes.

391
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And I got that feeling in the bottom of my stomach that I had when Hank Paulson went on TV and said,

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we need to give the banks a trillion dollars.

393
00:27:45,052 --> 00:27:47,152
And so this time they printed six trillion

394
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to keep the system afloat.

395
00:27:48,672 --> 00:27:50,692
And I just, I knew like none of the principles

396
00:27:50,692 --> 00:27:53,452
had changed from what I'd first learned

397
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a decade before that.

398
00:27:55,992 --> 00:27:57,872
But it's just accelerating, right?

399
00:27:57,972 --> 00:28:01,992
So I was able to get back into Bitcoin during COVID,

400
00:28:02,372 --> 00:28:05,532
join Bitcoin Twitter and have it look back.

401
00:28:06,012 --> 00:28:06,632
I haven't looked back.

402
00:28:06,792 --> 00:28:07,632
That's my origin story.

403
00:28:08,492 --> 00:28:10,532
That is a wild origin story.

404
00:28:10,532 --> 00:28:17,532
first of all i didn't realize it was that permissive pre-xi in china i guess i thought

405
00:28:17,532 --> 00:28:24,172
it was you know by degrees i didn't realize it was that much of a kind of about face yeah man uh

406
00:28:24,172 --> 00:28:29,092
especially like beijing and shanghai like they've always been competing cities and beijing of course

407
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is the government capital and they're more locked down and a little bit more stuffy but

408
00:28:32,232 --> 00:28:36,832
shanghai has always been a party city dude shanghai jazz like in the 20s it was ripping and

409
00:28:36,832 --> 00:28:43,152
roaring uh before that of course opium dens uh it's a huge port and you've got people and sailors

410
00:28:43,152 --> 00:28:47,732
from around the world coming and going and so they everybody likes to have a good time and that city

411
00:28:47,732 --> 00:28:54,712
definitely is on top of the list for that especially back then yeah man it's just wild because like now

412
00:28:54,712 --> 00:28:59,872
from what i've seen if you're uh like you should maybe be very cautious about even bringing your

413
00:28:59,872 --> 00:29:05,032
normal phone as a foreigner into china like probably just maybe get a get a burner for that

414
00:29:05,032 --> 00:29:08,212
you know, but also maybe be careful with the burner because they may be like,

415
00:29:08,332 --> 00:29:12,932
why is this a burner phone? Where's your normal phone? Like, you know, I don't know. I don't know.

416
00:29:12,932 --> 00:29:19,072
Have you been back since? I haven't actually. Last time. My best friend, he, we went there

417
00:29:19,072 --> 00:29:24,512
together and he stayed and he's been there ever since. And so he's, any day now, he should be

418
00:29:24,512 --> 00:29:29,432
having a baby there in China, which is kind of crazy. But a story that we just posted today

419
00:29:29,432 --> 00:29:37,832
is that Hong Kong just issued a new law on March 23rd saying that if you do not give over your

420
00:29:37,832 --> 00:29:43,232
passwords or de-encrypt any device that you bring to Hong Kong, even if you're just traveling through

421
00:29:43,232 --> 00:29:50,292
it, you can face a year in jail and a hundred thousand Hong Kong dollar fine. So yeah, we said

422
00:29:50,292 --> 00:29:54,592
be careful to bring any hardware wallets if you're traveling to or through Hong Kong right now.

423
00:29:54,592 --> 00:29:59,712
absolutely wild that is a pretty nuts one and it's also it's funny because it's like

424
00:29:59,712 --> 00:30:06,112
look we for those that don't know um at the border like and just generally governments have

425
00:30:06,112 --> 00:30:13,552
such so much scarier tech than you realize and they can clone your phone very very quickly like

426
00:30:13,552 --> 00:30:18,072
they have so many like boy they i mean all they need is your phone number for a lot of these

427
00:30:18,072 --> 00:30:22,472
different softwares and it's like you're fucked like you know and that's not again not even talking

428
00:30:22,472 --> 00:30:27,412
about what they can do at the border. But boy, yeah, that's a that's a tough one. It's like they

429
00:30:27,412 --> 00:30:32,352
just want explicit permission from you basically to fully, you know, run roughshod over you, it seems.

430
00:30:33,612 --> 00:30:37,552
Yeah. And I mean, I mean, I guess I'll divulge a little bit because it might be past the statute

431
00:30:37,552 --> 00:30:43,472
of limitations. But when I was living there, I was under the age of 25. Right. And in order to get a

432
00:30:43,472 --> 00:30:48,892
work visa to live there, you needed to be over 25, have a college degree and like three years of work

433
00:30:48,892 --> 00:30:53,412
experience, all of which I did not have at the time when I was living there. But I did know a

434
00:30:53,412 --> 00:30:59,952
dude and his dad was a big wig in the Chinese government back like decades ago. And he was an

435
00:30:59,952 --> 00:31:06,832
older guy at the time. But yeah, through him, I was able to get a work visa in China pre Xi,

436
00:31:07,452 --> 00:31:13,772
just through connections. And so, I mean, Xi, the president has cracked down so much on this

437
00:31:13,772 --> 00:31:19,192
corruption and this backroom dealing that you used to be able to get away with in China.

438
00:31:19,192 --> 00:31:25,652
And I guess it's for the better, but it's serious business now. I wouldn't try that again these days.

439
00:31:26,452 --> 00:31:32,792
I guess the for you better or for the better part depends on who you talk to, maybe. It is wild how

440
00:31:32,792 --> 00:31:38,552
fast things can change, though. It's a wild, this is a totally just unrelated anecdote, but just

441
00:31:38,552 --> 00:31:44,392
talking about the pace of change and kind of how bad we are as humans at understanding it.

442
00:31:44,792 --> 00:31:48,792
The wife and I decided she'd never seen Hell's Kitchen before, you know, with Gordon Ramsay. So

443
00:31:48,792 --> 00:31:54,052
we went back to like a season six or something, I don't know, from 2009. And like, it's not that

444
00:31:54,052 --> 00:31:58,412
long ago. But you look at it and it's like, it's a different world. Even like what they say on the

445
00:31:58,412 --> 00:32:04,672
program, just like, it's a completely different world. And we, it's so easy in the moment to forget

446
00:32:04,672 --> 00:32:10,832
how quickly things can change. Like it's, it's kind of wild. And I guess we're,

447
00:32:10,972 --> 00:32:15,032
we're always just kind of bad at that. Nothing wrong with living in the moment too. Like you

448
00:32:15,032 --> 00:32:18,812
should live in the moment. The moment is all we have, right? But like live in the moment while

449
00:32:18,812 --> 00:32:22,812
respecting the future and remembering the past as well, you know, planning for the future,

450
00:32:23,192 --> 00:32:26,492
remembering the past and, and then trying to experience the moment as much as you can.

451
00:32:26,492 --> 00:32:30,012
I'm not saying in like a degenerate way. I just mean like a be present, you know?

452
00:32:30,012 --> 00:32:35,792
and it's wild i did not know you had such a uh a rich and colorful history and what i love look

453
00:32:35,792 --> 00:32:40,052
this is why i love bitcoin podcasting guys and you too can just bitcoin podcast and learn

454
00:32:40,052 --> 00:32:44,732
fascinating stuff about fascinating people while talking about bitcoin it's a beautiful thing i i

455
00:32:44,732 --> 00:32:49,312
want to ask you too because 2020 for me was when i went down the bitcoin rabbit hole i heard about

456
00:32:49,312 --> 00:32:56,632
it the first time in 2014 buddy of mine was uh utilizing a uh website that some may be familiar

457
00:32:56,632 --> 00:33:00,352
with called the silk road and he's like a finance guy i was an engineering guy so i don't know i

458
00:33:00,352 --> 00:33:05,632
guess he thought like i might know more about computery stuff and he was like hey or have you

459
00:33:05,632 --> 00:33:10,472
heard about this bitcoin bitcoins thing i'm going to get these bitcoins to to you know get this

460
00:33:10,472 --> 00:33:16,012
stuff that i want to get on this website internet website and i was like no like i don't know if

461
00:33:16,012 --> 00:33:20,032
that is nerd anyway back to whatever fiat stuff i was doing just like completely blew it off

462
00:33:20,032 --> 00:33:26,492
2017 during the run-up paid attention again because it was in the news right i was like

463
00:33:26,492 --> 00:33:29,792
oh, I remember, you know, my buddy asking me about this back and then, that's funny.

464
00:33:30,572 --> 00:33:34,652
Is this thing still around? You know, that's not gone yet? That's crazy. Thought it was just for

465
00:33:34,652 --> 00:33:39,832
that website or whatever. Nope, still around, running up to, you know, 17, whatever thousand

466
00:33:39,832 --> 00:33:46,012
dollars or 20,000 or whatever it was. And at that time, I was like, I don't have enough to buy a

467
00:33:46,012 --> 00:33:50,252
full Bitcoin. I can't do that. I'll just get a couple of these Litecoins, you know, but that was

468
00:33:50,252 --> 00:33:54,252
a dumb move. So I'll always have empathy for people who are like, don't understand the whole

469
00:33:54,252 --> 00:33:57,872
satoshi thing you know it's like i didn't understand it right away either you know it's

470
00:33:57,872 --> 00:34:02,132
not necessarily self-evident right you know bias bias is real but then it was 2020 where

471
00:34:02,132 --> 00:34:08,012
honestly like so similar you know i think so similar to many bitcoiners out there who maybe

472
00:34:08,012 --> 00:34:11,952
had heard about bitcoin before at least it was somewhere in the back of their mind whether they

473
00:34:11,952 --> 00:34:16,832
you know got some back in the day lost it whatever or like me ignored it multiple times or just

474
00:34:16,832 --> 00:34:21,652
badly informed didn't take the time 2020 i think was a turning point where people

475
00:34:21,652 --> 00:34:28,072
started waking up at, you know, on mass, either that, or I think it was, you went one of two ways,

476
00:34:28,112 --> 00:34:33,652
right? You either flipped a switch and woke up and started going down the Bitcoin rabbit hole,

477
00:34:33,652 --> 00:34:38,072
going down or many other rabbit holes, or you kind of went deeper into the matrix. You went

478
00:34:38,072 --> 00:34:42,292
more asleep. That's it. Obviously there's some people in the middle too. It wasn't a binary thing,

479
00:34:42,372 --> 00:34:47,372
but I saw a lot of both ends of that spectrum. And, you know, thank God for both you and I,

480
00:34:47,372 --> 00:34:49,052
and probably a lot of people listening to this,

481
00:34:49,132 --> 00:34:52,392
it was going on the, you know, taking the red pill, right?

482
00:34:52,812 --> 00:34:53,652
But if you hadn't already,

483
00:34:53,732 --> 00:34:54,912
like you really took the red pill

484
00:34:54,912 --> 00:34:55,852
and you took the orange pill

485
00:34:55,852 --> 00:34:58,392
and there's no looking back, right?

486
00:34:59,012 --> 00:35:01,632
And I think that's like, I wonder,

487
00:35:01,812 --> 00:35:02,752
I sometimes wonder from,

488
00:35:02,812 --> 00:35:04,112
and I love your perspective on this,

489
00:35:04,692 --> 00:35:06,492
from an adoption standpoint,

490
00:35:06,712 --> 00:35:07,852
we were talking just before the call,

491
00:35:07,932 --> 00:35:10,492
how kind of like retail never really made it here

492
00:35:10,492 --> 00:35:11,652
this cycle, you know?

493
00:35:11,992 --> 00:35:12,732
Maybe they made it here

494
00:35:12,732 --> 00:35:13,972
through the Bitcoin treasury company.

495
00:35:14,072 --> 00:35:14,452
I don't know.

496
00:35:14,572 --> 00:35:16,192
There's different theories on this, right?

497
00:35:16,192 --> 00:35:20,952
if maybe a lot of that frothiness came in through other mechanisms and just never touched spot

498
00:35:20,952 --> 00:35:27,132
Bitcoin as much. But regardless, we didn't really see that retail hype on spot Bitcoin. We just

499
00:35:27,132 --> 00:35:34,212
didn't see it on social media either. It felt more dead than it was during the 2022 bear market.

500
00:35:34,732 --> 00:35:41,712
It just felt weird. What do you think it takes to spark the next wave of just individuals? Not

501
00:35:41,712 --> 00:35:46,772
talking institutions. Sailor is going to be buying no matter what. That man is a beast, right? He's

502
00:35:46,772 --> 00:35:50,952
going to be scooping up as many as he can. He gets it. He's gotten it for a long time. He also ignored

503
00:35:50,952 --> 00:35:56,152
it for a long time. Then he got it. He hasn't looked back. What do you think it takes to wake up

504
00:35:56,152 --> 00:36:02,232
another massive wave of just, you know, fellow humble plebs like you and me?

505
00:36:03,892 --> 00:36:08,332
Well, I think you got to look back. Bitcoin was born out of the great financial crisis, right?

506
00:36:08,332 --> 00:36:14,392
the same, I'm sure Satoshi, whoever he, she, they might be, sort of had that same feeling that I did

507
00:36:14,392 --> 00:36:18,732
when they went on TV and said, we're going to print all this money that we're being lied to.

508
00:36:18,832 --> 00:36:23,712
We need to find a fix for this. And it was born out of that. Another huge adoption boom was,

509
00:36:23,712 --> 00:36:29,312
of course, when Cyprus did the bail-ins, right? 2013. And they said, we're going to take your

510
00:36:29,312 --> 00:36:33,452
money. It's in the bank account. And we're going to give you a 25% haircut. And thank you very much.

511
00:36:33,452 --> 00:36:36,892
have a good day. Well, that can't happen with Bitcoin. And that led to another huge

512
00:36:36,892 --> 00:36:42,212
burst of adoption. And then it really took until 2020 to have that next

513
00:36:42,212 --> 00:36:47,172
crate. I mean, of course, 2017 was number go up, does a lot for getting new people on board.

514
00:36:47,432 --> 00:36:54,092
But in terms of 2020, I do think that you need that sort of negative catalyst, right? That thing

515
00:36:54,092 --> 00:37:00,452
that unites Bitcoiners together in finding a solution versus some external threat that really

516
00:37:00,452 --> 00:37:04,832
is a menace to you and your way of life and those you care about.

517
00:37:05,272 --> 00:37:10,792
It's having that external pressure outside, I think, is what drives people to find Bitcoin

518
00:37:10,792 --> 00:37:14,572
and become sort of zealous about it, right?

519
00:37:14,652 --> 00:37:19,872
Because you are able to find a shield, something to protect you and those you care about from

520
00:37:19,872 --> 00:37:23,252
something negative that's at the village gates.

521
00:37:23,252 --> 00:37:38,612
And so whether that be censorship in the future or another massive round of money printing, we've won a lot since 2022 during the FTX crash.

522
00:37:38,612 --> 00:37:43,912
You know, since the Larry Fink came out in 23 and said, I think I want to do a Bitcoin ETF.

523
00:37:44,152 --> 00:37:45,112
And then he got it approved.

524
00:37:45,112 --> 00:37:47,712
And then we got Trump and then we got a strategic Bitcoin reserve.

525
00:37:47,972 --> 00:37:52,592
All these things allow us to pat ourselves on the back and say, hey, look who cares about us now.

526
00:37:52,672 --> 00:37:54,592
Like we're we're on the biggest stages.

527
00:37:54,792 --> 00:37:57,132
But that doesn't drive new people.

528
00:37:57,332 --> 00:37:58,052
Necessity does.

529
00:37:58,532 --> 00:38:00,772
And I think that Bitcoin is going to be there.

530
00:38:00,772 --> 00:38:02,212
Right. It's not missing a block.

531
00:38:02,272 --> 00:38:05,332
It's still running just as perfectly as it has for the last 17 years.

532
00:38:05,652 --> 00:38:07,792
So it will be there when people need it.

533
00:38:07,792 --> 00:38:13,872
and then we'll see the next great wave of adoption when shit hits the fan again.

534
00:38:14,452 --> 00:38:22,652
So you think the next wave of adoption is more likely to be driven by, let's say, a push than a pull,

535
00:38:22,792 --> 00:38:28,132
like more likely to be driven by people running away from pain than running toward pleasure?

536
00:38:28,612 --> 00:38:30,672
It's not that they're even running toward number go up.

537
00:38:30,672 --> 00:38:34,612
It's not that they're running towards, you know, we know that most people don't give a shit about whole, you know,

538
00:38:34,612 --> 00:38:39,172
unconfiscatable, uncensorable, immutable. But let's be honest, most people don't. A lot of us

539
00:38:39,172 --> 00:38:43,872
do. And that's what matters. But most people don't. So you're saying it's going to be pain,

540
00:38:43,872 --> 00:38:50,952
running away from pain, that would be the driver of the next large adoption wave. Am I understanding

541
00:38:50,952 --> 00:38:57,232
correct? 100%, dude. I mean, we're humans, right? We're primates. We lay to coast when we can. And

542
00:38:57,232 --> 00:39:02,512
we really only change when we have to. And Bitcoin is a change. It's a mental framework change that

543
00:39:02,512 --> 00:39:10,492
you need to make. And it's the running away from pain that forces you to do it. Yeah, I mean, I'm

544
00:39:10,492 --> 00:39:15,212
out here every single day talking about Bitcoin. And also, you got to provide that for people so

545
00:39:15,212 --> 00:39:20,772
that when they do wake up, people wake up on their own levels. And I'm sure even today, there's no

546
00:39:20,772 --> 00:39:25,972
major external catalyst, but there could be one around the corner and each person finds it when

547
00:39:25,972 --> 00:39:31,832
they need it. So the masses will when we have that next big catalyst.

548
00:39:32,512 --> 00:39:43,432
And now that's it's fair. I mean, I the other side of that, if I'm to play devil's advocate, I would say NGU is a great like NGU is Bitcoin's best marketing like number go up.

549
00:39:43,732 --> 00:39:49,332
People want Bitcoin. They don't want Bitcoin when it's cheap, right? Nobody wanted Bitcoin at 16K at the bottom.

550
00:39:49,332 --> 00:39:59,432
And for the, I don't know if people remember if people weren't around, but like we were, we bumped around, we went up and down from right around 19K in 2022.

551
00:39:59,672 --> 00:40:04,232
So many times that Carla and I made a song.

552
00:40:04,512 --> 00:40:05,652
Well, I helped write it.

553
00:40:05,692 --> 00:40:11,772
Carla did all the singing and all the editing, but I was there, you know, the sound of silence.

554
00:40:11,772 --> 00:40:16,532
But, you know, starting out like hello, 19, my old friend, like we had hit 19K so many times over and over.

555
00:40:16,532 --> 00:40:21,352
you had so many opportunities to buy at 19k above it below it and then finally it did one last week

556
00:40:21,352 --> 00:40:28,712
down to 16 and then that was it then it went up to 125 like and that and like that was actually a

557
00:40:28,712 --> 00:40:35,552
pretty you know people say this last run was like disappointing i don't know was it like it was a

558
00:40:35,552 --> 00:40:42,372
pretty a pretty hefty run it wasn't a 20x right but it was like what a uh what 8x something like

559
00:40:42,372 --> 00:40:48,872
that 9x something something to that effect it was it was pretty it was pretty decent yeah uh but

560
00:40:48,872 --> 00:40:53,952
nobody wants it at that point when everybody's dancing on bitcoin's grave when peter schiff's

561
00:40:53,952 --> 00:41:00,912
got a hard-on nobody wants bitcoin but they want it once the number's pumping again you know humans

562
00:41:00,912 --> 00:41:07,692
are funny man they are and uh i think the the reason it it pumps is when usually there's there's

563
00:41:07,692 --> 00:41:12,692
something external bad going on right like covid and the money printing and even the debasement

564
00:41:12,692 --> 00:41:19,532
trade of of 2024 25 was the same thesis that like yeah we're even though things might be hunky dory

565
00:41:19,532 --> 00:41:25,992
right now uh we're still getting debased we all are and the the largest money managers understand

566
00:41:25,992 --> 00:41:31,592
that too and with the etfs they can finally allocate towards it so yeah people people run

567
00:41:31,592 --> 00:41:44,644
towards bitcoin when something scary is behind them and uh that that what we seen before and what we see again And number go up is a great advertisement of course and it gets normies on board because usually something bad is causing that

568
00:41:45,244 --> 00:41:48,244
But also it attracts the worst things too, right?

569
00:41:48,844 --> 00:41:52,064
When Bitcoin pumps, all these other scams go up as well.

570
00:41:52,124 --> 00:41:53,384
And it attracts the charlatans

571
00:41:53,384 --> 00:41:55,044
and the steak oil salesmen

572
00:41:55,044 --> 00:41:57,604
that want to strip people from their money

573
00:41:57,604 --> 00:41:58,824
rather than see us all win

574
00:41:58,824 --> 00:42:00,744
by getting our fair share of sass.

575
00:42:02,804 --> 00:42:04,904
It is a very fair point that

576
00:42:04,984 --> 00:42:08,664
okay, Bitcoin NGU tends to coincide with shit hitting the fan.

577
00:42:08,824 --> 00:42:10,684
So it's like those two are not mutually exclusive.

578
00:42:10,884 --> 00:42:14,324
It's not that, you know, it's just one is a function of

579
00:42:14,324 --> 00:42:16,324
or at least correlated with the other,

580
00:42:16,424 --> 00:42:18,744
which I think is a fair assessment.

581
00:42:19,464 --> 00:42:21,984
I think another point that I wanted to dig into a bit

582
00:42:21,984 --> 00:42:25,864
that you mentioned is just having the resources available for people.

583
00:42:25,944 --> 00:42:28,824
Because I'm sure, you know, first time you bought Bitcoin from an ATM

584
00:42:28,824 --> 00:42:31,264
and certainly first time I heard about Bitcoin from my buddy

585
00:42:31,264 --> 00:42:32,464
in, you know, 2014 or whatever,

586
00:42:33,064 --> 00:42:34,844
not that I even bothered to look for resources,

587
00:42:34,984 --> 00:42:39,784
But if I would have, it would have been probably, you know, Andreas Antonopoulos, like a couple others, like pretty meager.

588
00:42:40,204 --> 00:42:48,424
You fast forward to now, even if you go from 2020, when you and I really both went down the rabbit hole, you go from 2020 to now, 2026.

589
00:42:49,064 --> 00:42:51,404
I mean, it's an exponential increase.

590
00:42:51,544 --> 00:42:55,104
Like BDC Sessions alone has been doing it longer than that, obviously, what, 10 years now.

591
00:42:56,004 --> 00:42:57,384
Legend in the game.

592
00:42:57,684 --> 00:43:04,864
But even the amount of content that he's put out since then, the breadth and depth of content alone, just from him, is insane.

593
00:43:04,984 --> 00:43:33,044
And then you tack on all of the other people that came onto the scene, all the other educators from all different walks of life. It's like, it's a night and day difference, man. And I'm curious if you think, is the Bitcoin education media space broadly, is it saturated yet? Do we have enough? You know, do we have enough Bitcoin podcast? Do we have enough Bitcoin news? Do we have enough Bitcoin education out there that, okay, yeah, you know, people that are here, they'll keep producing what they're producing, but like, there's enough for people to chew on.

594
00:43:33,044 --> 00:43:39,484
Or do we still have work to do from an education, adoption, awareness, etc. standpoint?

595
00:43:40,364 --> 00:43:49,824
You always need fresh blood no matter what it is, whether it's a school or a military or a Bitcoin ecosystem.

596
00:43:49,824 --> 00:43:58,744
You need new people to infuse new life ideas, perspectives on it because you never know who you're going to resonate with and who's going to resonate with you.

597
00:43:58,744 --> 00:44:03,844
and even if we have a whole lot of bitcoin podcasts right now i'm sure there are some that

598
00:44:03,844 --> 00:44:09,844
you prefer to listen to than others right and so because of that you got to put your put your voice

599
00:44:09,844 --> 00:44:14,104
out there if you love bitcoin if you can't stop yourself from talking about it you'll soon realize

600
00:44:14,104 --> 00:44:19,284
that the people around you they'll either have understood it or they'll uh i've gotten sick of

601
00:44:19,284 --> 00:44:23,564
you talking about it so the best thing for you to do is try to go find out new people on the internet

602
00:44:23,564 --> 00:44:30,584
to pitch it to. One thing that we're, I think we are missing right now is the meme energy,

603
00:44:30,944 --> 00:44:39,164
right? I mean, HODL and 6.15, all these things have fun staying poor. They were so vital back

604
00:44:39,164 --> 00:44:45,164
in 2020, 2021. And right now, I don't know if it's because the treasury companies or the suits

605
00:44:45,164 --> 00:44:50,144
are here or what it is, but yeah, we're missing some of that vital energy. And I think that comes

606
00:44:50,144 --> 00:44:56,804
from youth. I think that like having 40 year olds try to come up with the memes is very different

607
00:44:56,804 --> 00:45:02,944
than having a 22 year old come up with the meme. Right. So it's we need new people in this space.

608
00:45:03,404 --> 00:45:09,224
And I think I try to you got to be on the platforms where they are, too. Right. Like I have

609
00:45:09,224 --> 00:45:14,144
TikTok on my phone because I'm making Bitcoin videos to put on TikTok. Right. You know,

610
00:45:14,144 --> 00:45:19,984
I don't look I don't scroll TikTok, but I do post there because that's where people are.

611
00:45:20,144 --> 00:45:26,784
And so you got to be there and you got to meet them where they're at in terms of education, platforms and attention span too.

612
00:45:27,724 --> 00:45:28,764
No, that's fair.

613
00:45:28,944 --> 00:45:30,344
TikTok is the one.

614
00:45:30,464 --> 00:45:35,364
I mean, when Carl and I started with, you know, the crypto couple, the Bitcoin couple, we started on TikTok.

615
00:45:35,884 --> 00:45:37,824
And that's where we went like very viral.

616
00:45:38,384 --> 00:45:47,984
It wasn't until later like where they started shadow banning us for various things or outright taking down our videos that we were like, fuck this noise.

617
00:45:47,984 --> 00:45:50,124
and haven't been back there in a while.

618
00:45:50,204 --> 00:45:51,604
I have still never downloaded it.

619
00:45:51,644 --> 00:45:52,804
I still haven't posted any content

620
00:45:52,804 --> 00:45:54,604
from the Bitcoin podcast on there.

621
00:45:54,664 --> 00:45:56,444
If there's a Zoomer out there who wants to,

622
00:45:56,444 --> 00:45:59,084
you know, intern for me and handle TikTok,

623
00:45:59,304 --> 00:46:00,264
I would be very grateful.

624
00:46:00,384 --> 00:46:01,324
I will pay you in SAT.

625
00:46:01,444 --> 00:46:03,364
So if you happen to be anyone listening to this

626
00:46:03,364 --> 00:46:05,404
and wants to do that, hit me up.

627
00:46:05,844 --> 00:46:07,544
Because I don't want to do it.

628
00:46:07,544 --> 00:46:09,424
But it is important to meet people where they are.

629
00:46:09,544 --> 00:46:11,804
And on that demographic piece,

630
00:46:11,824 --> 00:46:12,924
I wanted to talk to you about that too,

631
00:46:12,964 --> 00:46:13,704
because I don't know about you,

632
00:46:14,084 --> 00:46:15,724
but from what I know about my own content,

633
00:46:15,884 --> 00:46:17,884
seeing the demographic info that I see from YouTube,

634
00:46:17,984 --> 00:46:22,304
from other peoples that I, you know, talking to other podcasters, people in the space,

635
00:46:22,424 --> 00:46:27,304
looking at demo info, it's like, it's hard to get into that 18 to 25 demo.

636
00:46:27,584 --> 00:46:34,024
I will often have like 0%, literally zero in my YouTube, it'll be like 0% were 18 to 25.

637
00:46:34,384 --> 00:46:40,364
A lot in the late 20s, 30s, 30s to 40s, 40s to 50s, boomers as well. I've got more boomers than

638
00:46:40,364 --> 00:46:44,724
Gen Zers. Shout out to the Bitcoin boomers out there. You guys are based. You're the good boomers.

639
00:46:44,724 --> 00:46:50,504
but that's a tough demo to break into and it I think my opinion at least I'd like your thoughts

640
00:46:50,504 --> 00:46:56,064
it's like it's because they want to hear from people that are their own demographic like we

641
00:46:56,064 --> 00:47:00,544
we naturally want that right we want to hear from people that are like us or similar to us that we

642
00:47:00,544 --> 00:47:06,204
resonate with and like it or not Rob we're getting old you know we're getting old uh you know we're

643
00:47:06,204 --> 00:47:10,524
not cool anymore maybe we never were you sound like you're probably cooler than me given your

644
00:47:10,524 --> 00:47:15,684
hijinks. But, you know, I'm curious your take on that. I mean, is the other side of this like,

645
00:47:15,744 --> 00:47:20,084
okay, a guy like Jordan Peterson, just as an example, off the top of my head, ends up appealing

646
00:47:20,084 --> 00:47:27,144
to a massive demographic of younger men, right? Or Andrew Tate appeals to a massive demographic

647
00:47:27,144 --> 00:47:33,184
of younger men outside of, you know, outside of their own demographics. Do you think that that's

648
00:47:33,184 --> 00:47:38,504
something that in the Bitcoin space, we should be focusing on trying to find ways to target that

649
00:47:38,504 --> 00:47:43,304
demographic and I don't mean target in like the fiat way I just mean actually like figuring out

650
00:47:43,304 --> 00:47:47,064
ways to get the content in front of them more find things that resonate or is that not our job

651
00:47:47,064 --> 00:47:52,384
is that where the fresh blood comes in where we need young bitcoiners to step up start making that

652
00:47:52,384 --> 00:48:01,084
content and clearly there is an opening there from what I've seen there is and it's a couple things

653
00:48:01,084 --> 00:48:09,264
for one, they're so internet native, right? Like, and I don't like to use the term brain rot, but

654
00:48:09,264 --> 00:48:14,464
a lot of that content that they've consumed from a very early age is, is brain rot, right? Like

655
00:48:14,464 --> 00:48:19,224
with the multiple, multiple things happening on one screen, just to keep your attention for 15

656
00:48:19,224 --> 00:48:23,624
seconds. And in order to understand Bitcoin, you got to study, you got to do the hard work. Like

657
00:48:23,624 --> 00:48:29,044
there's, there's no easy way into becoming a hardcore Bitcoiner. You've got to, you've got to

658
00:48:29,044 --> 00:48:34,384
read, you've got to watch, you've got to listen. You should also be writing and creating things to

659
00:48:34,384 --> 00:48:38,144
get your thoughts out there, see if you truly understand them. Because that's the best way to

660
00:48:38,144 --> 00:48:42,744
understand if you know, if you see if you understand something is to, of course, express it, to teach

661
00:48:42,744 --> 00:48:47,504
it and try to tell other people about it. So when it comes to these kids, yeah, I think it would be

662
00:48:47,504 --> 00:48:55,204
great to have Gen Z content creators getting out there, making their own stuff that appeals to them.

663
00:48:55,204 --> 00:49:04,184
but also I think younger guys want to look up to older guys who they see as successful right

664
00:49:04,184 --> 00:49:10,564
who have been able to to do it so I think there still is a place for us we're we're both Bitcoin

665
00:49:10,564 --> 00:49:19,704
dads now and being able to have a family in the 2020s is a task into of itself right like there's

666
00:49:19,704 --> 00:49:23,864
a lot of people who just say no it costs too much I don't want to have kids well that's crazy I think

667
00:49:23,864 --> 00:49:28,024
by showing that you want that,

668
00:49:28,164 --> 00:49:30,124
you were able to execute it, do it yourself,

669
00:49:30,284 --> 00:49:31,724
and that Bitcoin helped you get there

670
00:49:31,724 --> 00:49:33,544
is a great example for younger people.

671
00:49:33,704 --> 00:49:35,864
And hopefully they will jump on that train

672
00:49:35,864 --> 00:49:38,724
and realize that because more than Bitcoin podcasters,

673
00:49:38,784 --> 00:49:40,084
we probably need more Bitcoin babies.

674
00:49:41,164 --> 00:49:43,704
Bitcoin baby NGU is a powerful thing.

675
00:49:43,804 --> 00:49:46,004
It's like you don't need to orange pill a baby.

676
00:49:46,184 --> 00:49:47,324
You know, if you're raising them right,

677
00:49:47,404 --> 00:49:48,384
they're going to be Bitcoiners.

678
00:49:48,384 --> 00:49:50,904
You've got to shoe in for the next generation.

679
00:49:51,764 --> 00:49:53,724
I think that is one of the incredible things

680
00:49:53,724 --> 00:49:56,184
about Bitcoin that at least I've seen.

681
00:49:56,304 --> 00:49:58,204
I mean, it's certainly been true for me,

682
00:49:58,324 --> 00:50:00,104
for my family, probably for yours,

683
00:50:00,164 --> 00:50:01,904
for a lot of Bitcoiners that I've talked to,

684
00:50:01,984 --> 00:50:03,984
whether it's on the internet or in person.

685
00:50:04,824 --> 00:50:07,324
You know, Bitcoin giving them the confidence

686
00:50:07,324 --> 00:50:09,384
to be able to start a family,

687
00:50:09,504 --> 00:50:12,124
just from a, especially from a man's perspective,

688
00:50:12,204 --> 00:50:13,444
from a provider's perspective,

689
00:50:14,204 --> 00:50:16,864
saying, yep, like, you know, I may not,

690
00:50:17,044 --> 00:50:18,624
I'm going to keep working, I'm going to keep doing it.

691
00:50:18,624 --> 00:50:20,104
I can't sit back and rest on my laurels.

692
00:50:20,204 --> 00:50:21,904
I'm not an OG who's been stacking

693
00:50:21,904 --> 00:50:23,524
or, you know, who bought a bunch of Bitcoin

694
00:50:23,524 --> 00:50:24,644
when it was $2, right?

695
00:50:24,724 --> 00:50:26,404
You know, I've been stacking all the way up

696
00:50:26,404 --> 00:50:27,584
to the recent tops, all the way down

697
00:50:27,584 --> 00:50:28,964
to the recent bottoms, gonna keep doing it.

698
00:50:29,064 --> 00:50:31,424
But you do that for enough years,

699
00:50:32,024 --> 00:50:33,184
you get a lot of breathing room.

700
00:50:33,664 --> 00:50:35,824
Even if your stack's not yet where you want it to be,

701
00:50:35,844 --> 00:50:36,884
you still have that breathing room.

702
00:50:36,944 --> 00:50:37,784
You still have that cushion.

703
00:50:38,404 --> 00:50:41,444
You know you've got this incredible sound money

704
00:50:41,444 --> 00:50:43,304
that you can always fall back on.

705
00:50:43,944 --> 00:50:45,564
And that frees you up to be able to do the things

706
00:50:45,564 --> 00:50:47,764
that are like having Bitcoin itself,

707
00:50:48,024 --> 00:50:49,964
just accumulating Bitcoin's not the goal, right?

708
00:50:50,404 --> 00:50:53,024
The goal is what Bitcoin allows you to do.

709
00:50:53,524 --> 00:50:59,284
money itself is never the end money is the means but the problem is that broken money is a broken

710
00:50:59,284 --> 00:51:04,964
means and you know sound money is a is a sound means right and and so i think that what i've

711
00:51:04,964 --> 00:51:11,444
seen just the microcosm of the bitcoin community and how many babies are being made in this in this

712
00:51:11,444 --> 00:51:18,084
you know small crazy you know niche internet psychopath community it's amazing and you look

713
00:51:18,084 --> 00:51:22,724
at the declining birth rates everywhere you look at the increasing nihilism everywhere you look at

714
00:51:22,724 --> 00:51:27,344
at the people just who are you know not getting married at all not having kids at all like all of

715
00:51:27,344 --> 00:51:32,864
this so much of it i think people give bitcoiners shit for like oh you're oversimplifying you can't

716
00:51:32,864 --> 00:51:36,424
it's not just you know it's not always just fix the money fix the world but but boy a lot of things

717
00:51:36,424 --> 00:51:41,604
get fixed when you fix the money and you know this is true because it's true on the individual level

718
00:51:41,604 --> 00:51:46,304
and it will be true on the societal level the problem is i think it takes a long time to get

719
00:51:46,304 --> 00:51:51,044
there but every new bitcoin accounts right every new bitcoin helps every new person who decides to

720
00:51:51,044 --> 00:51:56,524
start a family, raise their kids the best way they know how, like it moves the needle, even if it's

721
00:51:56,524 --> 00:52:01,064
slowly. And I think it's, it's important for us to remember that, like these little things may not

722
00:52:01,064 --> 00:52:05,584
seem important at the time, but they add up and they do make a huge difference.

723
00:52:07,964 --> 00:52:12,864
100%. Um, a funny thing that Marty Bentz says is that like, yeah, Gen Z is not getting it right now,

724
00:52:12,864 --> 00:52:16,984
but we're having kids. And so we'll just skip a generation and then we'll just be an army of

725
00:52:16,984 --> 00:52:22,884
Bitcoiners, right? And so that's one way to look at it. But it gives you hope too, right? Not just

726
00:52:22,884 --> 00:52:29,044
a financial cushion, but hope. And in my earlier conspiracy theory days, like thinking that you

727
00:52:29,044 --> 00:52:34,944
needed to get some gold and silver and bullets and you'd be able to hunker down and ride out a

728
00:52:34,944 --> 00:52:41,184
Mad Max situation. Well, Bitcoin gives you the belief, the hope that the world might and will

729
00:52:41,184 --> 00:52:47,184
be different in the not too distant future, but there's a way for you to ride that wave that

730
00:52:47,184 --> 00:52:52,944
looks possibly better than, than what we have right now. You know, it's not just a doomer mindset

731
00:52:52,944 --> 00:52:58,824
because once you get into that frame of thinking, um, you don't want to do anything else. Right.

732
00:52:58,864 --> 00:53:04,464
And it's a lot easier just to, to rest back and try to get into the, the hedonistic spiral. Just

733
00:53:04,464 --> 00:53:09,624
like I need to live for today because I don't know what's going to come next. Bitcoin allows

734
00:53:09,624 --> 00:53:15,124
of course, to delay some of that gratification and believe that there's something better on the

735
00:53:15,124 --> 00:53:22,744
horizon. So the hope is just as powerful as the financial. The world does it. We need more hope,

736
00:53:22,824 --> 00:53:28,684
right? We need more bright orange optimism. I'm curious to it because, you know, if we keep going

737
00:53:28,684 --> 00:53:34,024
down this path, we're going to get extremely out into the ether, very esoteric out here. And I love

738
00:53:34,024 --> 00:53:38,744
it. I love it. But I want to bring us back a little bit as well, because otherwise I will be

739
00:53:38,744 --> 00:53:44,404
the one leading us down this very feel-good rabbit hole, but one that perhaps not everyone's

740
00:53:44,404 --> 00:53:49,664
ready for yet. So I want to bring it back a little bit to just the good old-fashioned news side of

741
00:53:49,664 --> 00:53:58,844
things. There's a lot going on right now, to put it mildly, in the Bitcoin world, in the larger

742
00:53:58,844 --> 00:54:03,224
world, but focusing kind of on where we're at right now, again, in the adoption cycle, we clarified

743
00:54:03,224 --> 00:54:06,984
earlier, like, look, retail never really made it here. They're probably not going to come back

744
00:54:06,984 --> 00:54:12,904
in large numbers until there's a big push until and that push being from something negative

745
00:54:12,904 --> 00:54:20,444
happening some sort of a breakdown i'm curious what your kind of general vibe check is on

746
00:54:20,444 --> 00:54:28,544
are we at a point right now where we are about to kind of come out the other side of all the

747
00:54:28,544 --> 00:54:34,064
chaos that we're seeing are we are we closer to a let me put a different way are we closer to

748
00:54:34,064 --> 00:54:39,344
the start of a first turning or are we still in the depths of the fourth if you know what i mean

749
00:54:39,344 --> 00:54:44,284
i mean the bugle guys like to joke that we're we're already in the first turning dude just

750
00:54:44,284 --> 00:54:51,204
open your eyes we're in the first i love those guys maxi madness uh ending right now um but

751
00:54:51,204 --> 00:54:56,924
dude no we haven't seen the end of this fourth turning there's no way i mean of course you got

752
00:54:56,924 --> 00:55:01,464
to go back 80 years world war ii civil war revolutionary war these things have blow-off

753
00:55:01,464 --> 00:55:07,824
tops, right? And it's only after a blow off top in terms of chaos and just the table being flipped

754
00:55:07,824 --> 00:55:15,124
over. Are you able to start a new new rules and have new lines in the sand for a another 80 years

755
00:55:15,124 --> 00:55:22,144
of civilization to to grow on top of it? So I mean, I don't like to say that, of course, but

756
00:55:22,144 --> 00:55:26,684
yeah, this is this fourth turning. It was just getting turned on, right? If you read the book,

757
00:55:26,684 --> 00:55:32,884
Of course, they say it started in 2008, but they said that it should peak around 2030.

758
00:55:33,704 --> 00:55:35,604
You know, that's 22 years later.

759
00:55:35,824 --> 00:55:39,184
These these turnings are around 25 years apiece.

760
00:55:39,364 --> 00:55:44,384
And so, yeah, I don't think we're going to see the first turning till the 2030s.

761
00:55:44,804 --> 00:55:48,164
So four more years left of the 2020s.

762
00:55:48,244 --> 00:55:49,884
It's been quite the decade thus far.

763
00:55:50,564 --> 00:55:51,584
Let's keep going.

764
00:55:51,744 --> 00:55:55,284
But another thing is there's only so much you can control.

765
00:55:55,284 --> 00:55:55,884
Right.

766
00:55:55,884 --> 00:55:58,984
by spending so much time.

767
00:55:58,984 --> 00:56:00,484
I spend too much time on X, right?

768
00:56:00,544 --> 00:56:02,064
I do it for a living.

769
00:56:02,204 --> 00:56:03,324
I'm scrolling all day.

770
00:56:03,744 --> 00:56:09,024
I do think that I've built up some cognitive security, right?

771
00:56:09,704 --> 00:56:12,624
Try not to let things hit me too much.

772
00:56:13,884 --> 00:56:14,904
Sometimes they do.

773
00:56:15,604 --> 00:56:17,744
This weekend, to be completely honest,

774
00:56:17,884 --> 00:56:19,884
I was in the shower and it just sort of hit me like,

775
00:56:20,544 --> 00:56:22,844
wait, so the Strait of Hormuz is closed.

776
00:56:22,844 --> 00:56:30,144
oil could be going to 200 300 dollars a barrel what like what does that mean for for me and

777
00:56:30,144 --> 00:56:35,304
and this baby right like this is the first time i've had to face like a a global crisis with with

778
00:56:35,304 --> 00:56:42,264
a baby in the house and it it changes things for sure but all you can do is is care about those

779
00:56:42,264 --> 00:56:47,864
and yourself and those around you right and you got to be mentally physically and spiritually fit

780
00:56:47,864 --> 00:56:55,024
So meditate, read, take time off of screens and appreciate.

781
00:56:55,584 --> 00:56:57,344
Gratitude is a hell of a drug.

782
00:56:57,744 --> 00:56:58,724
It's a hell of a drug.

783
00:56:58,904 --> 00:57:04,904
And you can turn any situation upside down if you just are able to zoom in on what you can be thankful for.

784
00:57:05,004 --> 00:57:13,244
Because no matter what situation you're in, I mean, of course, Viktor Frankl, whatever, no matter where you are, you can find something that day to be grateful for.

785
00:57:13,244 --> 00:57:21,004
And if you can just put on those glasses, it will make your life a whole lot better than if you're constantly looking for the thing that's wrong.

786
00:57:21,724 --> 00:57:23,504
That is a damn good piece of advice.

787
00:57:24,304 --> 00:57:26,724
I'm curious on taking a slightly different tack here.

788
00:57:27,464 --> 00:57:31,384
What's your read broadly on treasury companies?

789
00:57:31,604 --> 00:57:35,864
This is like a total 180 here, but I follow your guys' feed pretty close.

790
00:57:35,924 --> 00:57:37,784
You guys do a lot of coverage of treasury companies.

791
00:57:38,864 --> 00:57:41,544
Obviously, there's kind of their strategy and there's everyone else, right?

792
00:57:41,544 --> 00:57:46,064
just both from a size and I think from a operational perspective as well.

793
00:57:46,444 --> 00:57:50,624
But I'd love your view on it as somebody who spends a lot of time covering this,

794
00:57:50,744 --> 00:57:53,184
looking at this stuff, analyzing it, talking about it.

795
00:57:54,244 --> 00:57:56,864
What's your overall assessment on them?

796
00:57:56,924 --> 00:58:00,904
Just kind of like just personally, like, you know, good, bad, ugly, indifferent, inevitable, whatever.

797
00:58:01,644 --> 00:58:08,664
And then where do you sit on the, you know, are these a winner take all or winner,

798
00:58:09,144 --> 00:58:10,864
you know, a couple winners take all sort of thing?

799
00:58:10,864 --> 00:58:12,804
Is strategy just going to eclipse everything?

800
00:58:13,584 --> 00:58:16,824
Or is there a lot of room for these other players?

801
00:58:16,984 --> 00:58:18,244
I'd love to hear what you think.

802
00:58:18,784 --> 00:58:25,324
Yeah, it's funny when you are able to look back and realize that you were in the midst of a mania.

803
00:58:26,124 --> 00:58:33,504
The space, it was, you know, May last year, it was just like any mom and pop shop would put a couple of Bitcoin on the balance sheet.

804
00:58:33,604 --> 00:58:38,844
They were able to triple their stock price and you had coffee shops in Spain doing it.

805
00:58:38,844 --> 00:58:42,804
And it was really all gravitated around the conference last year.

806
00:58:42,964 --> 00:58:45,424
Like in Vegas, it was the suit show.

807
00:58:45,924 --> 00:58:47,524
And it was fun.

808
00:58:47,704 --> 00:58:52,184
And everybody thought that like this was going to take Bitcoin to $200,000, $300,000, $400,000

809
00:58:52,184 --> 00:58:54,224
because all these companies were going to do it.

810
00:58:54,464 --> 00:58:56,264
And it was a you couldn't lose.

811
00:58:56,404 --> 00:58:58,404
You couldn't lose as long as you bought Bitcoin.

812
00:58:59,104 --> 00:59:01,084
And now we're a year later.

813
00:59:01,804 --> 00:59:04,404
And I mean, I respect it.

814
00:59:04,444 --> 00:59:06,644
I think it's a natural part of what's going to happen.

815
00:59:06,644 --> 00:59:08,484
You know, Bitcoin, like Bitcoin, sovereign money.

816
00:59:08,484 --> 00:59:12,064
anybody's gonna be able to go out there and purchase it and benefit their balance sheet by

817
00:59:12,064 --> 00:59:17,064
buying it but it's the the motivations of those who do that determines whether it'll be successful

818
00:59:17,064 --> 00:59:21,384
or not because as you know you got to be able to to ride these waves and a lot of these companies

819
00:59:21,384 --> 00:59:28,104
aren't i think a lot of newbies got burned um you know when you first get into bitcoin you realize

820
00:59:28,104 --> 00:59:33,604
everybody thinks they're too late no matter if you got in in 2012 or 2022 you think oh i missed

821
00:59:33,604 --> 00:59:37,624
the boat i need to try to catch up and whether that's getting into shit coins in the beginning

822
00:59:37,624 --> 00:59:40,184
or treasury companies this last go around.

823
00:59:40,424 --> 00:59:42,744
A lot of new people bought treasury companies.

824
00:59:42,884 --> 00:59:44,624
I mean, I remember seeing this dude saying,

825
00:59:44,804 --> 00:59:46,224
I'm going with the better money.

826
00:59:46,344 --> 00:59:49,484
I'm 100% MSTR, 0% Bitcoin.

827
00:59:49,784 --> 00:59:52,224
And it's just like, guys have lost the plot here, right?

828
00:59:52,244 --> 00:59:54,364
There was so much of losing the plot.

829
00:59:55,364 --> 00:59:59,064
And I mean, it was really, I mean, Odell said this,

830
00:59:59,064 --> 01:00:02,604
like going on Twitter last year,

831
01:00:02,704 --> 01:00:03,904
it turned into LinkedIn

832
01:00:03,904 --> 01:00:06,004
because everybody was just congratulating each other

833
01:00:06,004 --> 01:00:08,444
for getting a spot on a treasury company, right?

834
01:00:08,964 --> 01:00:15,144
And yeah, it's, at the end of the day,

835
01:00:15,444 --> 01:00:17,044
they're only gonna be a handful of winners, right?

836
01:00:17,684 --> 01:00:19,364
MSCR is gonna run America.

837
01:00:19,504 --> 01:00:21,704
I do think what MetaPlanet is doing in Japan,

838
01:00:21,844 --> 01:00:23,064
it's a completely different jurisdiction,

839
01:00:23,484 --> 01:00:25,524
different rules and laws over there.

840
01:00:25,844 --> 01:00:27,184
Because of that, I do think that they are

841
01:00:27,184 --> 01:00:28,404
in good position to win.

842
01:00:28,504 --> 01:00:29,504
They've got a fat stack.

843
01:00:29,684 --> 01:00:31,364
They're at number four now, I think,

844
01:00:31,364 --> 01:00:33,124
on the list at 35,000 Bitcoin.

845
01:00:33,124 --> 01:00:37,804
We just saw Marathon today sell 15,000 Bitcoin, right?

846
01:00:37,884 --> 01:00:52,344
They were sitting at number two with over 50,000 Bitcoin, and they just sold 15,000 of them in order to fund their pivot to AI and clear up some of the debt on their balance sheet because they were manic too.

847
01:00:52,484 --> 01:00:59,164
And in the middle of the euphoria, they took out a billion dollars of convertible notes in order to go buy $95,000 Bitcoin.

848
01:00:59,164 --> 01:01:02,164
And then they went and sold it at 65, right?

849
01:01:02,164 --> 01:01:07,924
these corporates really don't, they don't have the balls, dude. They don't have the testicular

850
01:01:07,924 --> 01:01:13,744
fortitude to ride it out. And they do have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders.

851
01:01:14,464 --> 01:01:22,384
But Bitcoin doesn't follow those rules. So yeah, I mean, it's, I'm sort of glad that the whole

852
01:01:22,384 --> 01:01:29,244
entire, like, throth is out of the system. Hopefully some new cooler narratives can come up

853
01:01:29,244 --> 01:01:35,564
because of it. But yeah, I mean, and now we're seeing this whole perpetual preferred stocks,

854
01:01:35,704 --> 01:01:44,564
right? These STRC and SATA getting 11%. But again, the numbers came out today. And I think

855
01:01:44,564 --> 01:01:53,344
Fong Li, the CEO of MSTR said that the purchasers of STRC stretch 80% are retail.

856
01:01:54,924 --> 01:01:58,704
Wow. This is supposed to be an institutional product, right? This is supposed to be the

857
01:01:58,704 --> 01:02:06,064
answer to all these big boys, these insurance companies who need that coupon to go out and get

858
01:02:06,064 --> 01:02:13,124
this Wall Street product that provides a high yield. But it's retail buying it right now. So

859
01:02:13,124 --> 01:02:21,844
yeah, it's an experiment, right? And they're learning in real time. And owning 760,000 Bitcoin

860
01:02:21,844 --> 01:02:36,516
allows you to have a cushion and figure things out on the fly But for a lot of these guys Um no And I glad I just so glad that i was able to get into the space before this whole entire thing so i wasn caught up in it and

861
01:02:36,516 --> 01:02:45,156
was walking around wearing an orange tie 24 7. my uh digression nothing against the guys wearing

862
01:02:45,156 --> 01:02:48,976
the orange ties sailor since i know you listen to every episode of my podcast this is not about you

863
01:02:48,976 --> 01:02:54,276
you look great in the orange tie man um not about you just to clarify here but um hey

864
01:02:54,276 --> 01:02:59,716
uh let's say it's about everyone else who decided to you know be a follower instead of a leader like

865
01:02:59,716 --> 01:03:03,096
sailor was the leader with the orange tie you know what i mean that's cool doing the same thing as

866
01:03:03,096 --> 01:03:07,956
everyone else is doing man that's not cool but my uh my father-in-law he always says like yeah

867
01:03:07,956 --> 01:03:14,756
walker is a escaped communism's badass dude he's like what's the difference between a necktie

868
01:03:14,756 --> 01:03:20,996
and uh and a cow's tail and it's like i don't know what is it well the cow's tail covers the

869
01:03:20,996 --> 01:03:27,376
entire asshole uh and i was like yeah just beautiful beautiful i'm curious i mean do you

870
01:03:27,376 --> 01:03:31,976
think we're gonna because you're spot on about the kind of the conference in vegas last year and that

871
01:03:31,976 --> 01:03:38,336
really being like the yeah baby it's up only forever now look at all the there's these companies

872
01:03:38,336 --> 01:03:43,936
are going to be playing the the fiat system like a fiddle they're going to be buying so much corn

873
01:03:43,936 --> 01:03:52,616
like it's up only forever now, most of those are down aggressively from their highs

874
01:03:52,616 --> 01:03:53,996
and even from the conference time.

875
01:03:54,716 --> 01:03:58,796
You think, you'll be in Vegas, I assume, again this year?

876
01:03:59,256 --> 01:04:02,896
You think we see as many suit corners, or do you think they're a little bit more quiet?

877
01:04:02,976 --> 01:04:04,876
Maybe they're tightening up the travel budgets.

878
01:04:05,116 --> 01:04:06,356
What's your read on that?

879
01:04:07,196 --> 01:04:09,316
I think it's still going to be a big narrative.

880
01:04:09,316 --> 01:04:12,816
I mean, NACA is the ones who are throwing this event,

881
01:04:12,816 --> 01:04:40,416
And I mean, they're the poster child for this, right? I mean, I just saw a clip of David Bailey talking about raising money for NACA to buy Bitcoin. And when they started off with their fundraising initiative, they wanted to raise $100 million. Well, he said that he was on the phone from 6 a.m. to 2 a.m. for weeks on end. And they were just they went up to $700 million. They raised $700 million.

882
01:04:40,416 --> 01:04:45,456
dollars. People could not get enough. They're knocking down the doors trying to get a part of

883
01:04:45,456 --> 01:04:52,976
these companies. And now we see that they went from $32 to 26 cents, right? I mean, it's like

884
01:04:52,976 --> 01:04:58,996
insane, insane drawdowns, much worse than anything we've seen in Bitcoin ever, right?

885
01:04:59,676 --> 01:05:06,776
Other than the very early days, you know, drew down to a penny. But yeah, I think it'll still

886
01:05:06,776 --> 01:05:11,436
be a part. I mean, these treasury companies will still exist. They're playing there. I mean,

887
01:05:11,516 --> 01:05:19,096
and again, at the, we just saw the latest numbers this quarter, other treasury companies bought just

888
01:05:19,096 --> 01:05:26,396
2% of, uh, the total treasury company buying a Bitcoin and MSTR bought 98%, right? So they're

889
01:05:26,396 --> 01:05:30,116
not buying right now. Uh, so I don't know if they've got money to send people to Vegas,

890
01:05:30,116 --> 01:05:41,836
but it's uh yeah you know what i'm trying to say yeah yeah no it's uh oh boy yeah that's uh

891
01:05:41,836 --> 01:05:46,856
i mean it's it's wild what sailors and i know sailor gets a lot of grief like a lot of people

892
01:05:46,856 --> 01:05:52,056
may think like oh you know he's like the you know original you know suit coiner progenitor right or

893
01:05:52,056 --> 01:05:56,976
whatever but like from everything that i have seen sailor i've been privileged to interact with him

894
01:05:56,976 --> 01:06:02,776
you know in person a couple of times like first of all he's boy he's one of the smartest people

895
01:06:02,776 --> 01:06:10,776
i've ever interacted with the guy if you okay you don't like him whatever but say what you will

896
01:06:10,776 --> 01:06:17,256
about him the guy is in has in my opinion done more in terms of the you know evangelization of

897
01:06:17,256 --> 01:06:23,856
bitcoin than everyone except maybe a couple other people like the sheer amount of podcast appearances

898
01:06:23,856 --> 01:06:26,436
like Lin Alden, Jeff Booth, they do a lot of podcasts too.

899
01:06:26,576 --> 01:06:27,896
Sailor, I actually, I don't know.

900
01:06:27,956 --> 01:06:30,196
Those three would be in a tough competition

901
01:06:30,196 --> 01:06:31,496
for who does the most podcasts.

902
01:06:32,076 --> 01:06:35,216
But the guy has done an incredible job evangelizing.

903
01:06:35,736 --> 01:06:38,036
And yeah, he explains things, uses analogies

904
01:06:38,036 --> 01:06:39,836
that maybe some people might not like at times

905
01:06:39,836 --> 01:06:41,136
or well, that's not exactly how it works.

906
01:06:41,196 --> 01:06:42,756
It's like, yeah, the point of an analogy

907
01:06:42,756 --> 01:06:43,876
is not to be exact, right?

908
01:06:43,896 --> 01:06:45,376
The point of an analogy is to make somebody

909
01:06:45,376 --> 01:06:46,436
think a little bit differently,

910
01:06:46,436 --> 01:06:49,156
to put something in a way that makes something click for them.

911
01:06:49,556 --> 01:06:51,596
And he's made it click for a lot of people.

912
01:06:51,596 --> 01:06:52,836
And shout out to Eric Weiss

913
01:06:52,836 --> 01:06:54,736
for actually being the one to orange pill sailor

914
01:06:54,736 --> 01:06:55,696
in the first place, right?

915
01:06:55,756 --> 01:06:57,516
Like that, talk about the butterfly effect,

916
01:06:57,616 --> 01:07:00,056
like that action and the ripple effects

917
01:07:00,056 --> 01:07:02,456
that it has created and will create throughout time.

918
01:07:02,576 --> 01:07:03,736
It's fascinating.

919
01:07:03,996 --> 01:07:07,416
But I mean, as we sit here now,

920
01:07:07,936 --> 01:07:10,356
it seems as though strategy is not slowing down.

921
01:07:10,696 --> 01:07:12,816
As you said, they've purchased, what,

922
01:07:13,056 --> 01:07:16,256
98% of all the treasury company buying that's been done.

923
01:07:16,636 --> 01:07:19,516
The other treasury companies have had to sell some strategy.

924
01:07:19,796 --> 01:07:22,116
To my knowledge, have they sold a single sat to date?

925
01:07:22,116 --> 01:07:23,776
I mean, at any point?

926
01:07:25,016 --> 01:07:25,196
Never.

927
01:07:25,976 --> 01:07:28,516
And like amidst all the talk of it's always, you know,

928
01:07:28,576 --> 01:07:30,256
Sailor's about to get liquidated.

929
01:07:30,296 --> 01:07:31,316
He's about to get liquidated.

930
01:07:31,476 --> 01:07:33,636
Always from usually the crypto, you know,

931
01:07:33,776 --> 01:07:36,276
Bitcoin-hating, crypto-loving, moon boy type guys.

932
01:07:36,416 --> 01:07:37,376
You see that from a lot.

933
01:07:37,436 --> 01:07:38,276
Or the Peter Schiff's.

934
01:07:38,736 --> 01:07:40,276
They're like two sides of the same coin, really.

935
01:07:41,216 --> 01:07:43,156
But I mean, I'm curious your thoughts.

936
01:07:44,596 --> 01:07:48,396
Is there any part of you that worries about strategy at all?

937
01:07:48,396 --> 01:07:55,196
that worries about uh you know okay even if sailor has the best intentions like is is he

938
01:07:55,196 --> 01:08:00,376
creating something that may be even too big for him to handle at some point like the guy's going

939
01:08:00,376 --> 01:08:03,676
to be he's already one of the richest people in the world he's already a billionaire i think he's

940
01:08:03,676 --> 01:08:09,296
going to be i mean give it 10 years like it's going to be like him elon musk and a couple other

941
01:08:09,296 --> 01:08:14,196
people will be like the richest people in the world that is my opinion i think as far as people

942
01:08:14,196 --> 01:08:18,616
being richest people in the world goes, he's not a bad one, honestly.

943
01:08:18,776 --> 01:08:20,576
Like, he's pretty darn mission aligned.

944
01:08:20,676 --> 01:08:26,116
I have this idea that he's actually, he plays the suit coiner role very well, but he is more

945
01:08:26,116 --> 01:08:27,536
subversive than you might think.

946
01:08:28,196 --> 01:08:30,316
He has never said anything to make me think that, guys.

947
01:08:30,356 --> 01:08:32,696
If the government's listening, he has no subversive plans.

948
01:08:32,816 --> 01:08:33,856
I'm just, just my read.

949
01:08:34,316 --> 01:08:34,816
Just my read.

950
01:08:34,876 --> 01:08:36,796
I think he's more of a revolutionary than he lets on.

951
01:08:36,916 --> 01:08:37,556
Maybe I'm wrong.

952
01:08:37,936 --> 01:08:38,436
Maybe I'm wrong.

953
01:08:38,536 --> 01:08:40,156
Maybe I'm the cuck here.

954
01:08:40,236 --> 01:08:40,636
I don't know.

955
01:08:40,636 --> 01:08:43,716
I just love you to read on it broadly, because a lot of people are always shrieking about

956
01:08:43,716 --> 01:08:51,476
strategy is this huge risk, this huge risk. What's your take? It's not a risk. They've got

957
01:08:51,476 --> 01:08:58,496
$2 billion in cash to pay these dividends, right? And they've got about $50 billion in Bitcoin.

958
01:08:58,496 --> 01:09:06,436
That means that they can pay the dividends for the next 75 plus years and they'll be fine. There

959
01:09:06,436 --> 01:09:12,876
is no liquidation risk when it comes to strategy. If we look at giant holders of Bitcoin, I mean,

960
01:09:12,876 --> 01:09:17,276
BlackRock, they've got roughly the same amount of Bitcoin right now. I mean, of course, it's not

961
01:09:17,276 --> 01:09:22,476
BlackRock owning it. They own it on behalf of the ETF holders, but they have a fat stack of Bitcoin

962
01:09:22,476 --> 01:09:27,316
themselves. And of course, there's Satoshi's stack, or we think it's Satoshi's stack of 1.1

963
01:09:27,316 --> 01:09:33,736
million Bitcoin. So that's roughly 5% of the entire issuance. So of course, we've seen that

964
01:09:33,736 --> 01:09:41,516
Bitcoin can function just fine if there's large pools of Bitcoin owned by one party here. So I

965
01:09:41,516 --> 01:09:48,156
don't think that's the risk in terms of the long-term plans i mean look at sailor in terms of

966
01:09:48,156 --> 01:09:54,716
his past um he grew up as an air force brat right he spent some time in new zealand because his dad

967
01:09:54,716 --> 01:10:00,736
was in the military uh then he goes to mit there's there's lots of connections between the u.s

968
01:10:00,736 --> 01:10:07,996
government and mit and now we have a sovereign wealth fund right and the sovereign wealth fund

969
01:10:07,996 --> 01:10:15,556
just bought a portion of Intel. And we have talked about building a strategic Bitcoin reserve.

970
01:10:16,116 --> 01:10:23,936
If you look at Google Maps and the location of Tyson Hill, where strategy is headquartered

971
01:10:23,936 --> 01:10:29,196
and the distance to Langley, the headquarters of the CIA, they're not far from each other.

972
01:10:29,776 --> 01:10:35,996
Right. So I do. Honestly, I'm putting on again my tinfoil hat here, but I think he does seem

973
01:10:35,996 --> 01:10:39,836
like a patriot. And Larry Lepard says that he's one of the smartest guys he's ever met and that

974
01:10:39,836 --> 01:10:49,456
he very well could run for president in 2032, something like that. So, yeah, I think there

975
01:10:49,456 --> 01:10:55,196
might be some connections there between Michael Saylor and the United States government. Maybe he

976
01:10:55,196 --> 01:11:01,036
got the nod early on and said, you got a job here, boy, go do it. And he's done a hell of a job doing

977
01:11:01,036 --> 01:11:05,616
it. But I don't know. I mean, of course, I'm just throwing things out there. But there's a lot of

978
01:11:05,616 --> 01:11:10,996
different pieces of evidence to maybe draw some conclusions. But at the end of the day,

979
01:11:11,136 --> 01:11:15,336
Bitcoin doesn't care. Bitcoin is going to exist. And even if the U.S. government does wind up

980
01:11:15,336 --> 01:11:22,476
owning 5 million Bitcoin, Bitcoin will still be able to succeed and provide what the people from

981
01:11:22,476 --> 01:11:28,516
around the world who use it need. I agree with that. And yeah, of course, we're just, Michael,

982
01:11:28,636 --> 01:11:32,876
because again, I know you're a regular listener to the Bitcoin podcast. We're just shooting the

983
01:11:32,876 --> 01:11:38,056
shooting the breeze here, Michael. Am I getting a little too out of bounds here?

984
01:11:39,616 --> 01:11:44,036
No, no, no, not at all. Because this is Bitcoin. There is no out of bounds, right? That's the

985
01:11:44,036 --> 01:11:49,256
beauty. This is an uncensored show. And I know Michael as a regular listener appreciates that.

986
01:11:50,096 --> 01:11:54,216
And I appreciate him buying up so much corn. And that's the other thing. When I hear people,

987
01:11:54,356 --> 01:11:59,576
to your point about like, yeah, okay, Bitcoin doesn't care. The government buys or tries to

988
01:11:59,576 --> 01:12:05,496
buy try would be the operative word tries to buy 5 million bitcoin okay like i think what a lot of

989
01:12:05,496 --> 01:12:12,196
people who are gnashing their teeth about either institutional or state-based adoption of bitcoin

990
01:12:12,196 --> 01:12:21,876
maybe fail to understand is like this is what bitcoin winning looks like if bitcoin was going

991
01:12:21,876 --> 01:12:29,416
to be successful if bitcoin is successful of course every individual every family every company

992
01:12:29,416 --> 01:12:37,336
every country is going to want to own as much of it as they can. This is a symptom of Bitcoin's

993
01:12:37,336 --> 01:12:42,576
success. This is not a sign that Bitcoin is somehow failing or not working. Have the properties of

994
01:12:42,576 --> 01:12:47,196
Bitcoin changed? Have the underlying fundamentals of Bitcoin? Has the 21 million supply cap changed?

995
01:12:47,476 --> 01:12:53,196
Has its unconfiscatable, uncensorable nature changed? No, no, no. So nothing's changed there.

996
01:12:53,196 --> 01:12:59,196
Bitcoin is still Bitcoin. And because of its properties, everyone who is paying attention

997
01:12:59,196 --> 01:13:04,336
wants some. So to me, I look at this and I say, yeah, like you don't have to like it. We don't

998
01:13:04,336 --> 01:13:09,636
have to cheer it, but it's the reality. It's the natural, natural evolution of where this was

999
01:13:09,636 --> 01:13:16,396
always going to go. Luckily, we had, you know, over a decade of time where no corporations and

1000
01:13:16,396 --> 01:13:20,376
no governments or very few corporations, non, you know, anyone outside of the Bitcoin space,

1001
01:13:20,376 --> 01:13:24,636
let's say, nobody was paying attention to it, or they were paying attention to it, but thought it

1002
01:13:24,636 --> 01:13:29,156
was some little thing that was going to fizzle out, die off. Okay, yeah, cute little project for,

1003
01:13:29,236 --> 01:13:33,956
you know, magic internet money nerds, but it's not going away. Bitcoin is here to stay. Bitcoin

1004
01:13:33,956 --> 01:13:39,556
is winning. There's a growing acknowledgement of Bitcoin winning. So of course, this is what we're

1005
01:13:39,556 --> 01:13:46,576
going to see. This is what it looks like when Bitcoin is winning. Now, again, you don't have

1006
01:13:46,576 --> 01:13:52,336
to like it, but you should acknowledge that this is what reality looks like and also say, hmm, well,

1007
01:13:52,556 --> 01:13:57,156
I guess if this is what reality looks like, where does this go next? You can pretty easily draw,

1008
01:13:57,296 --> 01:14:01,756
draw that line, right? To say, okay, well, this is only going to accelerate. Given that it's only

1009
01:14:01,756 --> 01:14:07,436
going to accelerate, how should I alter my actions in the present? Has, you know, how should I stack

1010
01:14:07,436 --> 01:14:12,816
harder? How should I create more value? How should I do what I can to evangelize more of my fellow

1011
01:14:12,816 --> 01:14:17,376
plebs if that's what you're if that's what you wanted you want individuals to hold more bitcoin

1012
01:14:17,376 --> 01:14:22,056
no one's stopping you you know what i mean you can just do things you can just go out there and

1013
01:14:22,056 --> 01:14:27,976
start a bitcoin podcast start a bitcoin news channel do just talk to talk to people at a

1014
01:14:27,976 --> 01:14:31,716
farmer's market i don't be like ben justman and go out there and just put a bitcoin preferred sign

1015
01:14:31,716 --> 01:14:37,276
and sell your wine you make with your own bare hands you know like you can be steak and shake

1016
01:14:37,276 --> 01:14:42,576
and start giving your employees start giving your employees a bitcoin bonus for every hour they work

1017
01:14:42,576 --> 01:14:48,736
that's cool like you can just do things guys so like hey i don't even have a question here rob

1018
01:14:48,736 --> 01:14:52,456
just just more just the statement i've got a response this is what bitcoin winning looks like

1019
01:14:52,456 --> 01:14:56,316
yeah yeah no i'd love you but like so much gnashing of teeth when it's like guys

1020
01:14:56,316 --> 01:15:00,896
we're not going to change reality what you can change is your own behavior focus on what you

1021
01:15:00,896 --> 01:15:06,596
can change not what you cannot change and celebrate the fact that look this means bitcoin is winning

1022
01:15:06,596 --> 01:15:12,436
the greatest hope for bitcoin is that it separates money from state

1023
01:15:12,576 --> 01:15:16,616
And if it separates money from state, every state is going to need some Bitcoin.

1024
01:15:16,996 --> 01:15:19,596
That's just how it boils down to, right?

1025
01:15:19,716 --> 01:15:24,776
Like these, we want to rip the money printer out of their hands and they're not going to do it willingly.

1026
01:15:25,236 --> 01:15:31,976
They're going to do it because their situation that got themselves in has been so horribly destroyed.

1027
01:15:32,096 --> 01:15:34,416
I mean, we're at $39 trillion worth of debt, right?

1028
01:15:34,636 --> 01:15:37,416
When Trump first got in in 2017, it was $19 trillion.

1029
01:15:37,876 --> 01:15:39,896
Now, less than a decade later, it's $39 trillion.

1030
01:15:39,896 --> 01:15:46,916
And over the next 30 years, they project that we're going to have to spend $100 trillion just in interest.

1031
01:15:47,756 --> 01:15:49,656
$100 trillion in interest, right?

1032
01:15:50,376 --> 01:15:51,296
Like insane.

1033
01:15:51,616 --> 01:15:53,556
There's no coming back from that.

1034
01:15:53,916 --> 01:15:55,456
And we're going to live through it.

1035
01:15:55,556 --> 01:16:00,516
We're going to live through the transition of the dollar, whatever that means.

1036
01:16:00,756 --> 01:16:08,456
And as we're both Americans, right, we've had this exorbitant privilege of being able to be born into the country that issues the dollar, that uses it.

1037
01:16:08,456 --> 01:16:10,056
The whole entire world is forced to use it.

1038
01:16:10,116 --> 01:16:17,176
And because of that, we've had cheap energy and food and life is easier in America because we use the dollar.

1039
01:16:17,416 --> 01:16:20,076
But as Bitcoiners, we're willing to give that up, right?

1040
01:16:20,116 --> 01:16:32,556
Because we believe that we're going to see a better world on the other side of it where this money printer is no longer at the Federal Reserve and that states need to use Bitcoin because Bitcoin separates money from state.

1041
01:16:32,556 --> 01:16:38,116
that's actually such an important point here that i'll double tap on for a second because i've heard

1042
01:16:38,116 --> 01:16:42,836
that argument not not your argument your argument i believe is absolutely correct i've heard the the

1043
01:16:42,836 --> 01:16:48,556
up the opposition to that which is oh i thought bitcoin was about separating money from state but

1044
01:16:48,556 --> 01:16:53,096
now the state is you know adopting bitcoin themselves it's like okay let's add a different

1045
01:16:53,096 --> 01:16:57,616
let's add one more word in there it's about separating the creation of money from state or

1046
01:16:57,616 --> 01:17:03,676
about separating the control of money from state. Holding Bitcoin does not give you control over

1047
01:17:03,676 --> 01:17:07,956
Bitcoin. That's one of the whole points, right? Does it make you a significant economic actor to

1048
01:17:07,956 --> 01:17:12,776
hold a million Bitcoin? Of course. Do you, if you're cussing that yourself, if you're running

1049
01:17:12,776 --> 01:17:18,076
your own node, do you have a very large economic node? Yes, absolutely. Still doesn't give you

1050
01:17:18,076 --> 01:17:23,676
unilateral control. And the beautiful thing about Bitcoin is if you do hold that much Bitcoin,

1051
01:17:23,676 --> 01:17:29,356
it's not in your best interest the game theory doesn't work out for you to sabotage bitcoin

1052
01:17:29,356 --> 01:17:33,756
that is one of the other beautiful things that i i come back to again and again rob just about the

1053
01:17:33,756 --> 01:17:37,436
i don't know sometimes i wonder with satoshi and i'd love your opinion on it

1054
01:17:37,436 --> 01:17:44,416
what was he she they just that brilliant where they actually gamed through so many of these

1055
01:17:44,416 --> 01:17:50,376
different things that we think about now and it's like you know galaxy brain meme or did they just

1056
01:17:50,376 --> 01:17:56,436
get a lot of the fundamentals right a lot of the first principles right and that naturally led to

1057
01:17:56,436 --> 01:18:02,976
the game theory on second third fourth order effects also being brilliant you know do you

1058
01:18:02,976 --> 01:18:06,796
know what i mean because like some of the stuff you think about it's like if you are a large holder

1059
01:18:06,796 --> 01:18:14,436
of bitcoin you have an economic incentive not to fuck up bitcoin that fact alone combined with all

1060
01:18:14,436 --> 01:18:20,076
the other game theoretical parts of Bitcoin, but that fact alone is so powerful. It's so powerful.

1061
01:18:20,396 --> 01:18:24,996
And unless you're willing to put up a lot of money, if you don't hold Bitcoin, but you want

1062
01:18:24,996 --> 01:18:28,836
to somehow hurt Bitcoin, the amount of money that it would take you to do that, if we're even just

1063
01:18:28,836 --> 01:18:34,736
from 51% attack standpoint, right? You don't have it. You don't have that money. And if you are a

1064
01:18:34,736 --> 01:18:39,136
government, you try to print that money, you're going to bankrupt yourself. But I'm curious,

1065
01:18:39,136 --> 01:18:46,336
your take was satoshi did satoshi galaxy brain this think about every eventuality or is bitcoin's

1066
01:18:46,336 --> 01:18:52,916
simplicity in architecture and game theory from a first principles level such that all of the rest

1067
01:18:52,916 --> 01:18:58,656
of this perceived brilliance was really just a natural consequence of getting the basics right

1068
01:18:58,656 --> 01:19:06,416
do you know what i mean yeah i think nothing can stop an idea whose time has come and 2008 2009

1069
01:19:06,416 --> 01:19:09,136
it was just the perfect, all the ingredients were there,

1070
01:19:09,236 --> 01:19:11,416
just like the spark of life on planet Earth, right?

1071
01:19:12,076 --> 01:19:14,076
Was it a lightning bolt? Who knows?

1072
01:19:14,176 --> 01:19:16,976
But it was an idea that he had.

1073
01:19:17,036 --> 01:19:18,296
He was able to put all these pieces together.

1074
01:19:18,416 --> 01:19:21,576
I mean, cryptography goes back hundreds and thousands of years, right?

1075
01:19:21,636 --> 01:19:24,396
I mean, people have been trying to hide messages from their enemies

1076
01:19:24,396 --> 01:19:26,976
for a long time and allow their friends to decrypt them

1077
01:19:26,976 --> 01:19:28,376
since the beginning of warfare.

1078
01:19:28,976 --> 01:19:32,356
And now we've gotten to a point, whether it's the Internet

1079
01:19:32,356 --> 01:19:35,896
and the need for it too, right?

1080
01:19:35,896 --> 01:19:39,616
Because back in 2008, what was the national debt?

1081
01:19:39,776 --> 01:19:42,596
It was under $10 trillion, that's for sure, right?

1082
01:19:42,676 --> 01:19:44,156
But it was still gotten to a point.

1083
01:19:44,256 --> 01:19:47,636
It took us from 7076 to 1980 to get the first trillion.

1084
01:19:48,116 --> 01:19:50,336
And then we had, what, 10X'd it by then.

1085
01:19:51,236 --> 01:19:53,536
And now we have 4X'd since there.

1086
01:19:53,716 --> 01:19:56,516
So he stood on the shoulders of giants, of course.

1087
01:19:56,676 --> 01:19:58,496
People had been doing lots of different,

1088
01:19:58,876 --> 01:20:03,116
trying to figure out how to do digital gold for a long time,

1089
01:20:03,236 --> 01:20:04,876
since the birth of the internet almost,

1090
01:20:04,876 --> 01:20:07,356
and cryptography has been going on much longer than that.

1091
01:20:07,696 --> 01:20:09,156
But yeah, all the pieces just line up together

1092
01:20:09,156 --> 01:20:13,196
and it was such a beautiful, simple design that it worked.

1093
01:20:13,556 --> 01:20:17,236
And as you mentioned before, the incentives are there.

1094
01:20:17,556 --> 01:20:18,936
It's a Mexican standoff

1095
01:20:18,936 --> 01:20:21,476
and everybody benefits by not screwing it up.

1096
01:20:21,836 --> 01:20:23,936
So let's all win together

1097
01:20:23,936 --> 01:20:26,076
just like we should all go on each other's podcasts.

1098
01:20:26,676 --> 01:20:27,976
We really should.

1099
01:20:28,096 --> 01:20:30,496
And we're getting right up against the edge of our time here.

1100
01:20:30,956 --> 01:20:33,136
But I do want to point out to you,

1101
01:20:33,136 --> 01:20:38,136
just uh just checked real quick looks like the u.s national debt at the end of 2007 was around

1102
01:20:38,136 --> 01:20:44,636
nine trillion which is just like it's laughable now like we've added that in the last few years

1103
01:20:44,636 --> 01:20:52,076
you know like it's just it's insane uh shout out to lynn alden i think economic macro meme

1104
01:20:52,076 --> 01:20:58,596
of the of the decade dare i say of the century of the millennia perhaps nothing stops this train

1105
01:20:58,596 --> 01:21:02,576
you know fiscal dominance like they just got to keep kicking the can down the road

1106
01:21:02,576 --> 01:21:07,036
and I could keep kicking the proverbial can down the road with you Rob all day long when it comes

1107
01:21:07,036 --> 01:21:10,576
to the conversation though it never feels like kicking the can because it's not I don't know

1108
01:21:10,576 --> 01:21:14,276
we're doing something else we're shooting the can with the high-powered rifle or something I don't

1109
01:21:14,276 --> 01:21:20,116
know something more American but thank you for your time here today man seriously I could go on

1110
01:21:20,116 --> 01:21:24,816
for way longer but I try to be respectful of people's scarce time as much as I can we're at

1111
01:21:24,816 --> 01:21:29,056
the end of ours where do you want to send people I want people to go and follow you if they're not

1112
01:21:29,056 --> 01:21:31,256
I want you to get a personal account on Noster too.

1113
01:21:31,436 --> 01:21:32,456
Do that for me.

1114
01:21:32,636 --> 01:21:33,996
I don't usually give homework.

1115
01:21:34,336 --> 01:21:36,716
And you got to do it, you know.

1116
01:21:37,076 --> 01:21:38,236
And that way I'll blast you out.

1117
01:21:38,676 --> 01:21:39,996
Get everybody following you there too.

1118
01:21:40,496 --> 01:21:41,396
You guys do great work.

1119
01:21:41,456 --> 01:21:42,476
But where can people find out?

1120
01:21:42,596 --> 01:21:46,376
Where can they, you know, follow, like, subscribe, newsletter, et cetera.

1121
01:21:46,596 --> 01:21:47,536
Send people where you want.

1122
01:21:48,116 --> 01:21:52,976
Yeah, we're on Noster, Bitcoin Newscom, on X, same Bitcoin Newscom.

1123
01:21:53,636 --> 01:21:57,876
Two things that I would like people to check out if they have the time and energy,

1124
01:21:57,876 --> 01:22:02,756
our newsletter, Bitcoin News Weekly, comes out every Monday morning. That's awesome. Full roundup

1125
01:22:02,756 --> 01:22:07,996
of the last week's news gets you caught up, ready for the week ahead. And then we go live five days

1126
01:22:07,996 --> 01:22:16,176
a week on X, LinkedIn, YouTube. We're the daily stack. So we're covering Bitcoin, markets, AI,

1127
01:22:16,376 --> 01:22:20,816
everything, but 1230 Eastern, five days a week. Really fun new initiative that we started this

1128
01:22:20,816 --> 01:22:25,516
year. Would be great to have people come check it out. We just did our first live event at PubKey

1129
01:22:25,516 --> 01:22:27,156
two weeks ago.

1130
01:22:27,436 --> 01:22:29,496
So we're going to be doing that on a monthly basis.

1131
01:22:29,716 --> 01:22:30,296
How'd it go, by the way?

1132
01:22:30,356 --> 01:22:32,556
I think I was just, I was on your show, I think,

1133
01:22:32,636 --> 01:22:34,476
right before you guys were doing the event.

1134
01:22:34,536 --> 01:22:35,636
I assume it went swimmingly.

1135
01:22:36,156 --> 01:22:37,176
Yeah, yeah, no, it was great.

1136
01:22:37,556 --> 01:22:40,356
We had like 120 people sign up.

1137
01:22:40,696 --> 01:22:41,716
It was a packed house.

1138
01:22:42,256 --> 01:22:45,816
And yeah, we talked about navigating the bear market, right?

1139
01:22:45,856 --> 01:22:48,016
And so each month we're going to focus on something new.

1140
01:22:48,236 --> 01:22:51,276
And I think we might do a, like,

1141
01:22:51,816 --> 01:22:54,476
clodbot type of a workshop next time.

1142
01:22:54,476 --> 01:22:59,416
So always something interesting coming out. Nice. I haven't taken the cloud bot plunge yet.

1143
01:22:59,416 --> 01:23:04,436
So perhaps that would be enough to, uh, to entice me, but Rob appreciate your time, man.

1144
01:23:04,436 --> 01:23:09,596
This was a treat. And also shout out to everybody who joined in on the Noster live stream,

1145
01:23:09,596 --> 01:23:15,476
the Bitcoin podcast streams live on Noster. And I appreciate every one of you who zapped me sats

1146
01:23:15,476 --> 01:23:19,916
during the stream. Sincerely, thank you for sharing a scarce piece of absolutely

1147
01:23:19,968 --> 01:23:23,728
Finite 21 million Bitcoin with me for doing this stream.

1148
01:23:23,828 --> 01:23:24,448
It means a lot.

1149
01:23:24,648 --> 01:23:25,048
Sincerely.

1150
01:23:25,288 --> 01:23:26,488
I know you worked hard for those sets.

1151
01:23:26,588 --> 01:23:27,628
So thank you for sharing them.

1152
01:23:27,688 --> 01:23:28,388
Thank you for tuning in.

1153
01:23:28,488 --> 01:23:30,548
Thanks for the comments in the chat.

1154
01:23:30,628 --> 01:23:31,748
There were some good ones there.

1155
01:23:32,368 --> 01:23:33,748
I need to start reading those live.

1156
01:23:33,868 --> 01:23:35,628
I'm just, I'm not quite as good as, you know,

1157
01:23:35,688 --> 01:23:37,688
Odell and Marty at this thing.

1158
01:23:37,708 --> 01:23:38,568
I'm working on it, guys.

1159
01:23:38,588 --> 01:23:39,488
I'm working on my streaming.

1160
01:23:39,728 --> 01:23:41,628
But Rob Wallace from Bitcoin News.

1161
01:23:41,868 --> 01:23:42,408
Thank you, brother.

1162
01:23:42,508 --> 01:23:43,228
This was a pleasure.

1163
01:23:43,868 --> 01:23:44,548
Best to you.

1164
01:23:44,788 --> 01:23:45,688
Keep up the great work.

1165
01:23:45,688 --> 01:23:47,008
And yeah, we'll do it again soon.

1166
01:23:47,088 --> 01:23:48,228
We'll cross pollinate again soon.

1167
01:23:48,688 --> 01:23:48,968
Cheers, man.

1168
01:23:49,048 --> 01:23:49,388
Thank you.

1169
01:23:49,488 --> 01:23:49,788
Anytime.

1170
01:23:49,968 --> 01:24:01,928
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin talk episode of the Bitcoin podcast.

1171
01:24:01,928 --> 01:24:10,568
Remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you're watching or listening and share it with your friends, family and strangers on the Internet.

1172
01:24:10,948 --> 01:24:17,248
Find me on Noster at primal.net slash Walker and this podcast at primal.net slash titcoin.

1173
01:24:17,248 --> 01:24:25,668
On X, YouTube, and Rumble, just search at Walker America and find this podcast on X and Instagram at Titcoin Podcast.

1174
01:24:26,388 --> 01:24:28,648
Head to the show notes to grab sponsor links.

1175
01:24:28,768 --> 01:24:33,448
Head to substack.com slash at Walker America to get episodes emailed to you.

1176
01:24:33,908 --> 01:24:37,228
And head to BitcoinPodcast.net for everything else.

1177
01:24:37,788 --> 01:24:41,348
Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant.

1178
01:24:41,348 --> 01:24:46,688
So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to The Bitcoin Podcast.

1179
01:24:47,248 --> 01:24:50,008
Until next time, stay free.