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Do we want other people to be the primary influence in our kids' lives, or do we want

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to be the primary influence?

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If someone's going to indoctrinate my kids, it's going to be me.

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Like, that's really what it comes down to.

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I hate to put it that bluntly, but like, listen, everyone's indoctrinated by something.

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So it's like, what do I want my kids to be influenced by primarily?

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And the decision came down to, we want that to be us.

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And so we pulled them out of elementary school, started homeschooling.

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Anyone who can't homeschool, I would just encourage you to really consider it and take on the work, man.

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Like, do the actual work because nothing easy is going to be worthwhile.

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And if you're going to invest somewhere, this should be the one area where you're like, all right, cool, I'm down to put in the work.

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It's easy to point to fiat and blame fiat on everything.

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But I mean, I think it's true.

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We've gotten soft.

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parents just like don't take their role seriously they're too distracted chasing money because they

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have to keep up with inflation and so they're they're less present with their with their kids

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i think that's a huge part of it is just like it's easy to just check out as a parent nowadays and put

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your kid in front of a you know a youtube show parenting is the lowest time preference thing you

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can do if you really think about it you know if we're changing the world it's it's going to go

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beyond us, right? It has to go into the next generation. And so really be thinking about

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your level of intentionality with the next generation and your responsibility to raise

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your kids with the level of intentionality that is required of you. It's not something that happens

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accidentally. They're not going to fall into good habits. They're not going to fall into

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being mature or having self-awareness. You have to do the work. This is where the ball is going.

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This is where the world is going. Everything is going to be repriced in Bitcoin. Every company is

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going to be a Bitcoin company. And it just, it feels like we're on our way to hyper Bitcoinization.

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It feels like all the things that we've been dreaming up and we've been kind of planning for,

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you know, all of like the game, we've talked about game theory for so long and now it's like

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happening, it's playing out. And so it's exciting, man. I think I'm one of those people that believes

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this time is different. You know, I think, I think when you have Bitcoin treasury companies

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buying more Bitcoin, that's being, than is being mined, you know, quarter over quarter, that,

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That gap is growing.

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It's not going down.

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They're buying exponentially more.

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And so when you have a finite resource like Bitcoin, I just don't see us having an intense bear market like we have.

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I think the four-year cycle thing is kind of over.

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minutes, the value of one Bitcoin is still one Bitcoin. And if you're listening to this right

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now, remember, you are still early. If you're not already, go ahead and subscribe to this show

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00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:02,340
wherever you're watching or listening and share it with your friends, family and strangers on the

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00:03:02,340 --> 00:03:07,180
internet. If you want to follow me in the show on Noster and X, just head to the show notes to grab

41
00:03:07,180 --> 00:03:12,060
the links. If you're enjoying the Bitcoin podcast and want to support it by becoming a paid

42
00:03:12,060 --> 00:03:17,480
subscriber, you can download the Fountain app, search for The Bitcoin Podcast, and subscribe

43
00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:23,760
by paying with Bitcoin via Lightning or fiat via card. You'll get access to ad-free episodes and

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00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:29,000
early releases of select content, plus you'll help support this show. Head to the show notes

45
00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:34,380
for product discount links, go to walkeramerica.substack.com to get episodes emailed to you,

46
00:03:34,540 --> 00:03:40,620
and head to bitcoinpodcast.net for everything else. Without further ado, let's get into this

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Bitcoin talk.

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I need to get,

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I need to get back into Noster,

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man.

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It just fell off.

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Dude,

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it,

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it's a lot of fun.

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I'll be honest.

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The vibes,

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the vibes on Noster are,

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are a lot better.

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Like the,

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the Bitcoin Twitter,

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Bitcoin X vibes.

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I've,

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I've been a little weird lately,

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I think.

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And the vibes on Noster just,

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just,

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just feel good.

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Like it,

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I think because it's also, so Gigi, like, I don't know if you know this, but he like completely went off of X.

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Wow.

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Doesn't use it at all anymore.

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Deleted his account.

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And he's exclusively using Noster.

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One of the things he talked about, he did a really great presentation on it.

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It might have been at Baltic Honey Badger or somewhere else.

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But basically this idea that like you wouldn't zap a car crash.

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This idea that, you know, because you can send zaps to Noster, because you can send value on Noster,

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people tend to give value to things that uh are are positive or or at least that show a proof of

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work whatever generally things that are like good things is what you want to zap if you're sending

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bitcoin something like you're not going to send bitcoin to a video of a car crash that's it's

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horrible it's tragic that feels messed up to even do that right and so i thought that that's like such

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a such a brilliant thing because it's like the attention algorithm on these centralized platforms

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absolutely prioritizes that you know car crash clickbait like you know everybody stops to watch

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a car crash but this idea that everybody may stop to watch it but you you don't zap that like you

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don't give that value you might give that attention but you don't give that value and i just thought

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that's like a kind of like blew my mind when he said that like you don't zap a car crash and it's

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like wow okay that's actually insanely profound oh dude my feed on x is just like it's all that

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it's all it's trash it's like fights it's it's become extremely racist too i'm like damn this is

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like just everything is clickbait but yeah it's it's wild and i mean i think that this is also

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just like most people aren't going to come over to noster and start using it until the pain gets

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great enough on these other platforms where it's like i need to make a switch or the pain might be

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censorship like it may it may be actual like you know totalitarian crackdowns i mean the uk is

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looking weird right now man like i don't know what is going on over there but it's it is not good i

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saw some like there's like like dozens of people getting arrested like on a like i think forget if

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it was daily or weekly either way it's a large number for like social media posts for like

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retweeting things and like that's just insane no apparently yes for even retweeting you can you can

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get this and like i don't know i for a while i thought all that stuff like oh it must be overblown

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like it must just be you know kind of like uh catastrophizing it you know again like people

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doing it for clickbait right but from like talking to people in the uk it's like no no no this is

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like a legitimate thing and it's super messed up and so it's i don't know it's it's sad to see

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so how do you how do you balance both because you're on both right x and noster yeah yeah uh

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so I,

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I use,

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I use two Noster clients.

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I use Domus and I use Primal.

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And then I also use Zap.Stream,

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which we are streaming on right now.

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And hello to anyone who is here live.

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But I guess for me,

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it's like,

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it's actually,

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I post my podcast stuff on both.

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I have a podcast account for both.

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And so that stuff I kind of put out.

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It's like basically the same on,

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on both Noster and on X,

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just because it's like a workflow thing for me.

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But on a personal level,

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I,

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I guess I post different sorts of content on Nostra than I do on X.

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On X, honestly, I troll a lot more.

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On Nostra, I don't feel the need to troll.

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It's kind of like you, again, people aren't going to zap a car crash.

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Right.

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I mean, maybe if it's a really masterful troll,

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but like it's a more open discussion, I think.

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Right.

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Because you don't have people that are going to algorithmically get fed

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your inflammatory tweet as some sort of clickbait.

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It's like people do less of that.

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It's kind of interesting.

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You have this open protocol for communication where people can say anything they want or any heinous things.

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And, of course, some people are going to.

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But, like, that just gets drowned out.

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Nobody pays attention to that.

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That doesn't get amplified because there's no incentive to amplify negativity like that.

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So I think that incentive model is really, really amazing.

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And honestly, like, go on Noster and just start talking about your book and parenting.

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Like, you know, if like, that's not something you do as much on X, like you were talking

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before this, like, Oh, I need to like self promote a little bit more.

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Like that's always a hard thing.

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It's a hard thing for, for me too.

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Like no stir is a great place to do that.

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Cause if you're just engaging honestly with people and being like, Hey, I really care

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about parenting and this idea of sound parenting.

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And this is what I'm here to talk about.

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I think people will, uh, will vibe with that very well.

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Okay.

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No, that's good.

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Yeah.

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It's just been getting like the habit of it.

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You know what I mean?

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I have, I have both on my, on my phone as well, both those clients.

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But it's just like the, I think just the addiction, frankly, like I'm addicted to X.

155
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I hate to admit it.

156
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Like I had to delete it off my phone for a little while because it's like the doom scrolling is just too much, bro.

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Dude, it is.

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I mean, it's, but it's literally like it's built for that.

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It's built to keep you engaged and hooked.

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And the weird thing is you find yourself like you spend, you know, a few minutes on there and you try to think back.

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Like, what did I even start looking at?

162
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Like, what have I just been doing?

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Like for the last, like, I don't, I literally don't, can't remember what I was just doing, but I just feel more anxious now.

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like i need to go walk outside i need to chill it's i i we really have no idea what the long-term

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effects of just social media exposure are going to do to people i'm like feel bad for like they

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you know the younger generations who basically were complete guinea pigs for it like social

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media came around when i was already i mean my prefrontal cortex wasn't fully formed but it was

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it was it was getting there like mine just finished forming like last year but like you know for these

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kids that like they grew up with a smartphone in their hands i remember the first phone i had

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was a motorola razor and i think i was 16 when i got it and i was like whoa that was cool man like

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that was you know it was a razor like that it was sweet they were they were awesome they were so cool

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but like you know well first of all okay welcome george it's awesome to have you here um we're

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gonna we're gonna just go in a bunch of different directions today but maybe we just kind of start

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out like on the parenting side a little bit because you are a father who has been in this

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fatherhood game for longer than I have. I am very new to this. You've done it a couple of times over.

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You've got kids that are in their late teens. Yeah, I don't want to be too specific just but.

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No, early teens. A 15-year-old daughter and a 17-year-old son. So yeah, it's teenage years,

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man, a whole new challenge. And I can't honestly, like my, my parenting sort of advice is definitely

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not about teenagers. It's, it's more focused on kind of where I'm experienced, which is the younger

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years. But yeah, it's been, it's been quite the journey and it's, it's been a lot of fun. It's

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something I'm really passionate about. Like I was talking about with you earlier is like

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watching the Bitcoin scene start to mature. We're getting older, right? It's like I got it in 2017

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and there weren't a lot of kids in the space.

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But now, you know, Bitcoiners growing up, starting to have kids, I saw a need.

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And actually, so kind of where the story starts, I guess I'll just dive right in.

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I started to bring my son Kingston to Bitcoin meetups when he was really young, probably

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like 10 or 11.

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And he always just loved it.

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He always like vibed with the adults.

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And it was cool because, you know, bringing my kids around Bitcoiners, I always felt comfortable.

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Like these are the people who I want my kids to be like, you know what I mean?

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And we homeschooled our kids.

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And so there's always kind of that stigma with homeschoolers.

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Like, are they going to be socialized or whatever?

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And you meet my kids and it's like, that stigma is gone.

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They're like, they know how to talk to adults.

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You know, we're trained at a young age to shake hands, look people in the eye and kind of the basics.

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And brought Kingston to Bitcoin 2021.

199
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And he, you know, he got to see kind of Jack Mallers make the announcement about El Salvador.

200
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And he was really struck by that.

201
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It was a really influential moment.

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Um, and that was actually the time period where I transitioned to working for BTC Inc.

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Uh, I came on originally as a director of marketing.

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That was my first, first role.

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Got my foot in the door, got to leave my fiat job and get into, into Bitcoin full time.

206
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And, um, from there I started bringing him to all the conferences and, and Bitcoin 2022,

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you know, it was my first conference working there.

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He was 13 at the time.

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And I remember being like nervous.

210
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I'm going to bring my son and I'm working.

211
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So I was like, how much do I have to like babysit or like keep an eye on him?

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00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:28,960
And dude, he just, he just blew me away.

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He kind of just made himself useful, dove right in, kind of picked up on what he learned at the meetups.

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And, um, the staff really embraced him and we're pulling him in like 18 different directions.

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Like just, Hey, this kid can actually help.

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He can actually contribute value and, um, got, you know, a ton of compliments and was, you know, very proud as a, as a father, obviously.

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But there was one conversation with one of my coworkers, Alan Helm, and his wife, Sid.

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And they were like, dude, what did you do with this kid?

219
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Like, can you please help us?

220
00:12:59,620 --> 00:13:05,060
They were expecting at the time, like, can you like write a book or, you know, write your ideas down, what you and your wife did?

221
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And I was like, hmm, I probably could do that, actually.

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And so that was kind of the genesis.

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That was originally what inspired me to write this book.

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and sat down and just started kind of writing all of the things that we did as parents.

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And the book is called I'm Not Your Bruh, 21 Keys to Sound Parenting.

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You know, the thesis is right there in the title.

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It's like we got to get back to sound parenting.

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We got to get back to like the basics of you're a parent.

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That's your child.

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It's not your best friend.

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You know, you don't treat them like they're one of your buddies.

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We have to like regain authority.

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And I think like this is really missing in society if you look at kind of some of the common like parenting habits.

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And so, yeah, the book is very practical.

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It's very – there's literally 21 chapters, 21 keys of here's kind of how to approach parenting.

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I mean love that there are 21 keys as well.

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Like a good Bitcoin pun is never amiss.

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I'm curious what, like, do you think as a whole, because I think we've all, we've all experienced

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that, like the, the cliche, which is a cliche for a reason of like the, you know, the, I'm a cool mom

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or, you know, I'm a cool dad or whatever, like that exists for a reason. And like, you know,

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like we've all known those kinds of, those kinds of people. Like, I mean, is this a, is this

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something we, we trace back to fiat? Like is part of this an issue of, you know, both parents being

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gone all the time, like during, during the day, like is that, or how do you look at this in terms

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of like, how did we get here to where we are today? And why did this problem become so acute?

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Yeah. I mean, I think, I think what you just touched on is definitely part of it. I mean,

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it's easy to point to Fiat and blame Fiat on everything, but I mean, I think it's true. Like

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it's just, we've, we've, we've gotten soft. Um, and we're in that kind of that loop of,

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you know, the hard part, what's the meme, hard men create soft times. And we're,

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we're in that it's like parents just like don't take their role seriously um they're too distracted

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chasing uh money because they have to keep up with inflation and so they're they're less present

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with their with their kids i think that's a a huge part of it is just like it's easy to

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just check out as a parent nowadays and put your kid in front of a you know a youtube show and

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not be intentional with with your role and your responsibility and just like

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let your kid kind of exist, you know? Um, and so my, my whole thing is no, we got to be active.

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We got to be present. We got to be, um, hands-on and teaching our kids how to be human. Uh, it

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doesn't just happen accidentally. Like if you don't teach your kid how to, um, you know, again,

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look an adult in the eye, shake their hand, you know, things like little things. And it really is

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little, just very practical things when you're at a restaurant and you're ordering for your kid

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Rather than, you know, training them, hey, you know, look the server in the eye and tell

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them what you want.

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That becomes a very useful thing in life.

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Or just like introducing your kid, when your child is with you and you're in a conversation,

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it's like, are you in the habit of being like, oh, by the way, this is my son.

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And, you know, training them in that moment to shake a hand and look people in the eye

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and be confident and say, you know, put your hand out, say like, my name is Kingston.

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It's great to meet you.

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These little things that are ignored or dismissed or not thought about, they don't just happen.

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You know what I mean?

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And so that's kind of what I try to instill is just like we got to go back to the basics.

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We have to reclaim our authority.

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You know, being the cool mom is a very temporary thing that when your kid grows up, they're not going to, you know, it's not going to work.

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Like the better approach is to actually be present in your kid's life, to be helpful and useful.

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and train them and coach them.

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And then when they get older, and actually this is what I'm realizing,

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it's funny because the book is called I'm Not Your Bruh,

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but like my son who's 17 now has become like a really good friend

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like in a lot of ways, right?

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Like that's my buddy.

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And it didn't start that way because, you know,

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I understood my authority in his life and I understood that, you know,

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I have a responsibility to train him to be his own individual person.

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but it's cool now that I'm reaping the benefits of that

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because we're very close.

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I think that there's this idea that people have that,

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well, I want to have what you have with Kingston, right?

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I want to have my child be someone that I can feel like

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I'm actually a friend with later in life.

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So that must mean that I need to start just being their friend

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earlier in life.

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And it's kind of counterintuitive because it's like,

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no, you have to be able to set boundaries.

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like that you have to like you like you're you do no better as a parent i can be good like i mean

293
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like i don't know about you but i was a dumbass like and i was a really good kid too but even i

294
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like i was a very good kid and i was homeschooled as well uh but i was still a dumbass because i was

295
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a kid like you know we do stupid stuff i think especially like especially boys obviously we've

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got to start getting some testosterone just coursing through our veins and we're like yes

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like let's go right but but so i but i think people like miss they don't understand that

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that relationship can and should evolve it doesn't have to start from the the place that you want to

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get to it should start from a place of you know of course love like that should you know like it

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doesn't authority and love don't have to be mutually exclusive in fact they're they're

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definitely not you were doing the things you're doing because you love your child like it's not

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like and i think people just lose then i i wonder how much of it too is just like this i

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the kind of the participation generation you know the participation ribbon sort of vibe of things

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and just wanting to make sure everybody feels good and everybody feels you know safe and nobody

305
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feels uncomfortable or they don't feel bad like a failure to realize that difficult and painful

306
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moments are what shape you and make you better like not exclusively good moments can but like

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you you learn often by by force not by choice like you get smart by force and so i think people have

308
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i don't know there's this uh there's just a bit of a shift to where it's like

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you know the dad is not in a place of authority um and if and if the mom's not in a place of

310
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authority either then like nobody's in a place of authority you hear you know horror stories about

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you know uh you know kids teens going crazy and everything and it's like man i don't know i think

312
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it's uh traditional methods of parenting worked pretty well for a very very very long time and

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like i remember growing up it's like we started to get into these like kind of participation

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parenting style of things and i just don't think that was helpful for anyone like i learned a hell

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of a lot more from you know a baseball game where we lost than from where we won right it's important

316
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it's important to lose because then you realize what it takes to win you know it's important to

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Lose and then not get a trophy ceremony after.

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No, no, no.

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Because you don't deserve one.

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You lost.

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You're a loser.

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That's not a permanent state for you, but you were a loser today.

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So what are you going to do differently?

324
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How are you going to make yourself better?

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Because otherwise you will be a loser.

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You'll lose again.

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But you don't have to be.

328
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You can win.

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Hello, friends.

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You may notice that there are no sponsors for this episode,

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00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,480
and that is because this is a pure value for value episode.

332
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,700
So if you find this episode valuable, consider giving value back.

333
00:20:46,860 --> 00:20:49,680
You can do that by becoming a paid subscriber on Fountain.

334
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,160
You can send me a zap on Noster, a boost on Fountain.

335
00:20:53,460 --> 00:20:57,460
Or if you don't feel like doing any of those, one thing you can do that is totally free

336
00:20:57,460 --> 00:21:02,800
is just to share this show with your friends, family, and strangers on the internet so that

337
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:03,760
it reaches more people.

338
00:21:03,940 --> 00:21:08,900
If you are listening on a podcasting app like Apple Podcasts, you can also give this a five

339
00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:10,780
star rating so more people find the show.

340
00:21:10,780 --> 00:21:14,500
You can subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, or wherever else you're watching.

341
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,300
But again, I always recommend that Bitcoiners check out Fountain.

342
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,960
You can also go check out the big print audiobook, which I narrated.

343
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,100
You also, of course, do not have to do any of those things.

344
00:21:26,260 --> 00:21:30,060
Bitcoin does not care, but I sure do appreciate all of your support.

345
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:31,260
So thank you.

346
00:21:32,420 --> 00:21:37,440
Yeah, and I think there's a section in the book about discipline.

347
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That was probably the hardest to write, the most controversial.

348
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I remember putting some of these ideas out that, you know, my wife and I started at a very young age.

349
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We had kids young.

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I was 22 and Kingston was born.

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And, you know, it was shortly after we got married.

352
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So it wasn't part of our plan to have kids that early.

353
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But, you know, we had to figure it out because there's a child here now and we're parents.

354
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,900
And so we adopted a few mantras.

355
00:22:07,060 --> 00:22:09,380
And, like, in our household, like, mantras are really big.

356
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One of the things we talk about, words are really important.

357
00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:14,680
The use of words with intentionality is very important.

358
00:22:15,660 --> 00:22:23,960
But one of the things that was pretty controversial, pissed a lot of people off when I tweeted it, was obey first and then ask questions.

359
00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:26,820
That's one of the things that we've always taught our kids.

360
00:22:27,140 --> 00:22:34,120
And really what that comes down to is like if I give you instruction as a parent, you are to obey first.

361
00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:39,880
And then if you have questions about sort of why that instruction was put out, then you can ask questions.

362
00:22:40,580 --> 00:22:41,780
But it's after the fact.

363
00:22:41,860 --> 00:22:47,260
It's not when I ask you to do something, it's not a why or like, you know, questioning or pushing back.

364
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:50,040
Like this isn't a democracy, right?

365
00:22:50,060 --> 00:22:51,960
Like this is very much a dictatorship.

366
00:22:52,940 --> 00:22:55,920
It's like even like little things like what we're eating for dinner.

367
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Like I don't consult with my kids on that.

368
00:22:57,980 --> 00:22:58,320
You know what I mean?

369
00:22:58,340 --> 00:23:01,060
Like it's like here's what I'm doing for dinner and this is what you're going to eat.

370
00:23:01,060 --> 00:23:04,680
And another mantra we have is whiners get nothing.

371
00:23:04,980 --> 00:23:09,900
It's like, dude, if you whine about anything ever, I just – I'm not going to hear it.

372
00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:25,420
And so it is being like hard in some ways and it is being direct and that's difficult for the trophy, the participation generation because in a lot of ways, that's not what we got.

373
00:23:25,420 --> 00:23:38,660
If you're a millennial, it's like you kind of were raised in that sort of softness where you kind of – you got the trophy even if you lost and you were told you're a winner even when you weren't very talented in certain things.

374
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,540
And like that just wasn't helpful.

375
00:23:41,740 --> 00:23:45,900
Another one is delayed obedience is disobedience, right?

376
00:23:46,000 --> 00:24:01,644
It similar to obey first and ask questions But it like the countdown method is one that I criticize pretty harshly I like if you do the countdown method if you like three come on you better listen to me or it going to be really bad for you

377
00:24:02,184 --> 00:24:04,224
Two, like a lot of parents do that.

378
00:24:04,344 --> 00:24:09,884
And what you're teaching your kid is that it's okay for them to not listen to you right away, right?

379
00:24:10,564 --> 00:24:15,304
And so one of the things we said is if you delay that obedience, you're actually disobeying.

380
00:24:15,304 --> 00:24:19,644
And so the expectation is you do something the first time I ask you, I'm not going to count down.

381
00:24:19,984 --> 00:24:22,324
And if you don't do it, there's going to be consequences.

382
00:24:24,044 --> 00:24:32,604
I think that I remember hearing because we were on a like a Bitcoin parenting panel at the conference this past year, which was an awesome panel.

383
00:24:32,684 --> 00:24:34,764
I remember you were discussing that with somebody backstage.

384
00:24:34,924 --> 00:24:40,724
I hadn't heard that phrased that way before the countdown because that feels like that's just like something that like a lot of parents do.

385
00:24:40,724 --> 00:24:46,104
um i'm not at that stage yet you know where my son like would understand like why i'm counting

386
00:24:46,104 --> 00:24:48,964
he'd just like start counting with me and i'd be like oh that's this is fun we're playing a

387
00:24:48,964 --> 00:24:54,204
counting game okay but like there was something you know it's interesting in this in this parenting

388
00:24:54,204 --> 00:25:00,624
journey it's like so many of these things are only abstract concepts to you until you get there

389
00:25:00,624 --> 00:25:04,764
yourself like until you get that we were talking about this just off off camera it's like you know

390
00:25:04,764 --> 00:25:09,804
you you don't even realize little things like oh why why do people you know denominate their baby's

391
00:25:09,804 --> 00:25:14,904
age in months for so long. Like it sounds ridiculous to say 20, you know, 21, 22 months

392
00:25:14,904 --> 00:25:19,204
old or whatever, just, you know, say two years. And it's like, Oh, because those couple months

393
00:25:19,204 --> 00:25:22,544
make a world of difference in your child's development. And, but you don't know that

394
00:25:22,544 --> 00:25:26,804
until you're actually in it. And I think that's the case with, with a lot of things, like when

395
00:25:26,804 --> 00:25:31,084
it comes to discipline, like when it comes to any of these things, you, you don't really,

396
00:25:31,084 --> 00:25:36,044
really internalize what that means or the implications of it until you are in it in

397
00:25:36,044 --> 00:25:40,004
the moment living it and it's no longer just abstract and theoretical it's not it's not

398
00:25:40,004 --> 00:25:46,624
academic it's real life it's like this like what you do right now as a parent will make a difference

399
00:25:46,624 --> 00:25:51,764
and i think that that's like again it's like you don't know until you know you don't know

400
00:25:51,764 --> 00:25:58,284
like about how you're going to feel and how you're going to change as a man until that baby is there

401
00:25:58,284 --> 00:26:05,064
and you're like holy shit what happens after i die uh what what i need like i need to i i thought

402
00:26:05,064 --> 00:26:09,344
I had a low time preference before. I didn't. I didn't. It was all a lie. Now I need to buckle

403
00:26:09,344 --> 00:26:13,384
down and work harder, but I also need to balance that with still being there and being present and

404
00:26:13,384 --> 00:26:18,004
being a key figure. And like, and how do I do that? And like, shit, I'm just thinking about so

405
00:26:18,004 --> 00:26:22,144
many more things than I ever was before. But while I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.

406
00:26:22,784 --> 00:26:29,424
Right. Right. No, absolutely. I think it's easy again, to just like check out and coast and not

407
00:26:29,424 --> 00:26:34,544
be present and your kids need you to be there.

408
00:26:34,884 --> 00:26:38,464
You are the automatic authority figure whether you like it or not.

409
00:26:39,084 --> 00:26:40,704
You know, your kids look up to you.

410
00:26:40,764 --> 00:26:44,684
They want to be just like you, which is kind of terrifying if you think about it.

411
00:26:45,244 --> 00:26:50,624
And it's funny, as I was writing this book, it challenged me, right, to think through

412
00:26:50,624 --> 00:26:56,244
the level of intentionality that's required down to the littlest, stupidest things of

413
00:26:56,244 --> 00:27:03,164
like, if you're, if my office is messy and I'm going to tell my child to clean their room,

414
00:27:03,304 --> 00:27:08,304
I'm just a hypocrite. Right. And you know, that's, again, it's a very simple concept to think about,

415
00:27:08,304 --> 00:27:13,484
but, um, a lot of like parent, like basic parenting really comes down to bettering yourself.

416
00:27:13,824 --> 00:27:19,784
That's what I learned. Um, is, is that like, you know, be a better person, work on yourself.

417
00:27:20,124 --> 00:27:25,184
And like, that's 90% of the battle. Um, cause your, your, your child is looking to you as an

418
00:27:25,184 --> 00:27:30,904
example. And so they're going to mirror you. They're going to reflect who you are and who

419
00:27:30,904 --> 00:27:35,064
you're becoming and how you're acting and how you're treating people and the words that you say

420
00:27:35,064 --> 00:27:41,664
and how messy your room is. Like all of those things matter. And so it really does. It's funny.

421
00:27:41,764 --> 00:27:44,964
Like I almost want to rewrite the book and just have it not be a parenting book and have it be

422
00:27:44,964 --> 00:27:50,304
just like a, how to be a human book. Cause so much of it is just like practical application,

423
00:27:50,304 --> 00:27:55,204
things that like we just, we should just do better and they'll, you know, they'll, they'll

424
00:27:55,204 --> 00:27:56,584
be adopted by our children.

425
00:27:56,584 --> 00:27:59,664
So, um, so yeah, that's, that's really the thesis.

426
00:27:59,664 --> 00:28:01,804
It's like sound parenting, sound money.

427
00:28:01,884 --> 00:28:05,984
They're, they're, they're back to the basics type, type of things, like strip away all

428
00:28:05,984 --> 00:28:10,144
the bullshit and just go back to just being a better person showing up.

429
00:28:10,684 --> 00:28:14,664
Um, but like, to your point, you don't really think about a lot of these things until you're

430
00:28:14,664 --> 00:28:15,024
in it.

431
00:28:15,124 --> 00:28:19,484
You know, my wife and I read a ton of parenting books and we had to learn, again, learn on

432
00:28:19,484 --> 00:28:19,944
the fly.

433
00:28:19,944 --> 00:28:37,464
And so I do think it's one of those things where it's like, I'm not like an expert in any way other than like, I've just been through it. And so I wrote down, you know, the practical things that we did that I think are helpful, the lessons that we learned along the way. And so I think it can be really useful if you're in that in that season of life.

434
00:28:37,464 --> 00:28:44,124
how much do you think do you think about the nature versus nurture kind of debate at all

435
00:28:44,124 --> 00:28:48,404
because it's something i think about like all the time and i it's wild how much to your point about

436
00:28:48,404 --> 00:28:53,164
like oh they're your child is looking at you and they want to be just like you boy you realize that

437
00:28:53,164 --> 00:28:56,584
real quick when they start either repeating everything you say or mimicking whatever action

438
00:28:56,584 --> 00:29:01,184
you did and you're like oh my god i need to make sure i'm not being a complete piece of garbage like

439
00:29:01,184 --> 00:29:06,584
you know like you really you do want to be better but i'm curious like where you stand on that how

440
00:29:06,584 --> 00:29:12,624
much, I mean, it's obviously an interplay, right? Like it's not, it's not a binary there, but how

441
00:29:12,624 --> 00:29:16,264
much of an interplay do you think it is? How much are they just, you know, some people are like,

442
00:29:16,304 --> 00:29:18,904
well, what, you know, when they're born and like, that's just the person they're going to be. And

443
00:29:18,904 --> 00:29:23,824
you can nudge them a little bit, but they're basically, that's who they are. Or, or do you

444
00:29:23,824 --> 00:29:29,804
think, you know, the nurture does make a bigger difference? Yeah. I mean, I definitely think that

445
00:29:29,804 --> 00:29:36,124
it is an interplay. It's not binary. Both are, both are definitely, um, factors, but I do think

446
00:29:36,124 --> 00:29:42,384
that, you know, nurture does have an important role. If I had to quantify it, I'd probably say

447
00:29:42,384 --> 00:29:48,924
it's 80-20, maybe 70-30. And in terms of like, what you what you actually do, what you instill

448
00:29:48,924 --> 00:29:56,524
in your children, I always tell my kids that I want them to be better versions of me. And not like,

449
00:29:56,864 --> 00:30:02,264
you need to be like me, but I'm just saying, the whole like, well, you did this when you were a kid,

450
00:30:02,264 --> 00:30:05,184
Like that doesn't work because actually I want you to be better than me.

451
00:30:05,444 --> 00:30:12,444
Like if you're looking at an example of like my life of something that I did where I fell short and you're using that as an excuse of like, well, you did that.

452
00:30:12,524 --> 00:30:13,444
Well, guess what?

453
00:30:13,484 --> 00:30:14,784
The goal isn't to be me.

454
00:30:14,884 --> 00:30:16,264
The goal is to be better than me.

455
00:30:17,684 --> 00:30:19,604
I think a lot about leadership too.

456
00:30:19,844 --> 00:30:21,404
You know, I want my kids to be leaders.

457
00:30:22,744 --> 00:30:27,884
One of the mantras that we use has been make good choices, be good leaders.

458
00:30:28,404 --> 00:30:29,404
Make good choices, be good leaders.

459
00:30:29,404 --> 00:30:33,904
Every time we left them somewhere, dropped them off at school or whatever, make a choice to be good leaders.

460
00:30:34,744 --> 00:30:36,624
And I still actually use this one.

461
00:30:36,704 --> 00:30:37,164
It's kind of funny.

462
00:30:37,284 --> 00:30:38,544
And they're like, OK, dad, yeah, whatever.

463
00:30:39,124 --> 00:30:44,404
But I think it's important to think about this, especially as Bitcoiners.

464
00:30:44,724 --> 00:30:49,184
I believe that Bitcoiners are developing some of the best leaders in the world.

465
00:30:49,704 --> 00:30:53,264
And I think that responsibility is on us to raise up leaders.

466
00:30:54,044 --> 00:30:57,924
I think leadership is one of those things that's lost in our society.

467
00:30:57,924 --> 00:31:03,884
There's not a lot of good leaders you can point to as examples in the world anymore, which is terrifying, right?

468
00:31:04,024 --> 00:31:10,064
I'm talking about presidents and people who are in positions of leadership, industry leaders.

469
00:31:10,764 --> 00:31:13,484
There's not a lot that you want to really emulate.

470
00:31:14,464 --> 00:31:16,704
Effective leadership has become scarce.

471
00:31:17,544 --> 00:31:24,004
And so I think that on the nurture side, let's just talk about us as Bitcoiners, this community.

472
00:31:24,384 --> 00:31:27,564
It's on us to raise up the next generation of leaders.

473
00:31:27,924 --> 00:31:32,764
And I think that's, that's critically important if we're going to be, you know, leading the world,

474
00:31:32,764 --> 00:31:37,784
like we're trying to change the world. And I don't, I don't want to downplay that. I think

475
00:31:37,784 --> 00:31:40,804
it's a, it's a really important thing for us to embrace and be real about, like,

476
00:31:41,384 --> 00:31:47,664
if we're changing the world, if Bitcoin is going to be the global reserve currency, and, you know,

477
00:31:47,664 --> 00:31:53,984
the people who, who have Bitcoin, right, it's the, what was the old thing is, those who have the gold,

478
00:31:53,984 --> 00:31:55,424
He who has the gold makes the rules.

479
00:31:56,284 --> 00:31:58,364
Now it's like he has the Bitcoin, makes the rules.

480
00:31:58,464 --> 00:32:02,404
We're going to be running a lot of aspects of society.

481
00:32:02,924 --> 00:32:07,224
This next generation is going to be in positions of authority and leadership, right?

482
00:32:07,244 --> 00:32:08,484
That's what we hope for.

483
00:32:08,564 --> 00:32:09,364
That's what we want to manifest.

484
00:32:09,564 --> 00:32:11,484
That's what we want to instill in our children.

485
00:32:11,724 --> 00:32:14,004
And so I want to nurture that.

486
00:32:14,124 --> 00:32:16,324
I want to influence that as much as I can.

487
00:32:16,324 --> 00:32:25,124
yeah i think that that's a it's something that is growing increasingly difficult in our society

488
00:32:25,124 --> 00:32:33,504
when you have an education indoctrination system that is specifically made like the public school

489
00:32:33,504 --> 00:32:40,224
system is not built to produce leaders it's built to produce followers that's that's explicitly what

490
00:32:40,224 --> 00:32:45,324
it is right and there's a there's a whole rabbit hole there because it's like i know you know this

491
00:32:45,324 --> 00:32:46,504
You homeschooled your kids.

492
00:32:46,884 --> 00:32:48,784
Again, I was homeschooled myself.

493
00:32:48,884 --> 00:32:49,644
I went to high school.

494
00:32:49,844 --> 00:32:50,604
I made that decision.

495
00:32:50,704 --> 00:32:53,484
My parents said, this is your choice to make, and you live with the consequences.

496
00:32:53,644 --> 00:32:55,184
Go and do it if you want to.

497
00:32:56,264 --> 00:32:59,064
I'm so grateful to my parents for homeschooling me.

498
00:32:59,364 --> 00:33:04,824
And I grow increasingly grateful the older I get because the more I learn about it.

499
00:33:04,924 --> 00:33:09,444
At that time, it just felt right, but I didn't fully appreciate the totality of it.

500
00:33:09,984 --> 00:33:10,084
Wow.

501
00:33:10,084 --> 00:33:13,424
And now it's like I go back, and I look, and I start researching these things,

502
00:33:13,424 --> 00:33:23,884
And you find out it's like, oh, so wait, this compulsory public education was like, that's like a Prussian model that they use to basically produce good workers and good soldiers.

503
00:33:24,584 --> 00:33:26,184
Okay, well, that's a little weird.

504
00:33:26,624 --> 00:33:30,924
Oh, Germany still makes it illegal to homeschool your kids?

505
00:33:31,004 --> 00:33:31,484
Why is that?

506
00:33:31,524 --> 00:33:32,544
Where did that policy start?

507
00:33:32,604 --> 00:33:33,624
It started with Adolf Hitler.

508
00:33:33,764 --> 00:33:34,024
Really?

509
00:33:34,644 --> 00:33:36,484
Oh, well, that's interesting.

510
00:33:36,644 --> 00:33:39,424
Why would the Nazis not want you to homeschool?

511
00:33:39,504 --> 00:33:40,484
That's so weird.

512
00:33:40,484 --> 00:33:50,044
like huh i can't that just cooks my noodle you know and so but like it's sad that and obviously

513
00:33:50,044 --> 00:33:54,464
maybe homeschooling is not for everyone either and it's not for everyone for the whole time that

514
00:33:54,464 --> 00:33:57,964
your child is going through school i think your kids now have moved into like a we can maybe talk

515
00:33:57,964 --> 00:34:02,184
about that a little bit moved into kind of like a hybrid model but i think that it is something

516
00:34:02,184 --> 00:34:05,624
where you have to acknowledge like if you're going to send your kids to public school you have to

517
00:34:05,624 --> 00:34:10,284
acknowledge that you, you can bring them through that in one piece and they can still be good

518
00:34:10,284 --> 00:34:15,644
leaders. That is entirely on you as the parent, because the school system is not going to do that.

519
00:34:15,964 --> 00:34:20,724
They will create little sheep out of them because that is what the school system is designed to do.

520
00:34:20,724 --> 00:34:24,524
That doesn't mean every teacher is bad. It doesn't mean that every school is bad.

521
00:34:25,044 --> 00:34:29,704
It means that overall the public school system, and this is not just in the U S but across the

522
00:34:29,704 --> 00:34:36,144
world is designed after the neoprussian model and it is made to turn them into obedient little

523
00:34:36,144 --> 00:34:41,064
worker bees and obedient little soldiers and so i i love that maybe if you can talk about kind of

524
00:34:41,064 --> 00:34:47,844
how that changed for you guys homeschooling to like not homeschooling you know where what what

525
00:34:47,844 --> 00:34:52,004
made that change for you guys and just kind of like how do you how do you view that in terms of

526
00:34:52,004 --> 00:34:58,684
their early education versus their later education? Yeah. So definitely I'm a massive

527
00:34:58,684 --> 00:35:04,504
advocate for homeschooling. I know it's not practical for everyone. I know it sounds difficult

528
00:35:04,504 --> 00:35:10,584
because it is, it's a lot of work. You know, we've been fortunate enough where, you know,

529
00:35:10,584 --> 00:35:15,164
I've been able to work. My wife stayed home and homeschooled the kids. And that was, you know,

530
00:35:15,164 --> 00:35:20,484
her primary like responsibility. She did all the heavy lifting and she took it very seriously.

531
00:35:20,484 --> 00:35:22,944
She took her role as teacher, but, you know, very seriously.

532
00:35:24,184 --> 00:35:27,544
Our kids started in public schools in elementary.

533
00:35:28,344 --> 00:35:34,184
And we just, you know, started noticing that exactly what you're talking about.

534
00:35:34,244 --> 00:35:39,584
It's like, do we want other people to be the primary influence in our kids' lives?

535
00:35:39,604 --> 00:35:42,784
Or do we want to be the primary influence?

536
00:35:42,844 --> 00:35:44,804
If someone's going to indoctrinate my kids, it's going to be me.

537
00:35:44,904 --> 00:35:46,904
Like, that's really what it comes down to.

538
00:35:46,904 --> 00:35:52,024
I hate to put it that bluntly, but like, listen, everyone's indoctrinated by something.

539
00:35:52,144 --> 00:35:55,904
So it's like, what do I want my kids to be influenced by primarily?

540
00:35:56,124 --> 00:35:58,904
And the decision came down to, we want that to be us.

541
00:35:58,964 --> 00:36:03,884
And so we pulled them out of elementary school, started homeschooling.

542
00:36:03,884 --> 00:36:08,564
Actually, we started homeschooling right before COVID, right before it became cool and everyone started doing it.

543
00:36:09,284 --> 00:36:15,304
But at the time, it was like, it was a pretty common sense kind of a decision for us.

544
00:36:15,304 --> 00:36:16,624
We had the opportunity.

545
00:36:16,624 --> 00:36:17,644
We had the means to do it.

546
00:36:18,224 --> 00:36:21,864
And so it was a pretty easy decision from that standpoint.

547
00:36:22,964 --> 00:36:25,764
And yeah, we've homeschooled our kids all the way through.

548
00:36:26,124 --> 00:36:28,204
Kingston stayed homeschooled.

549
00:36:28,224 --> 00:36:29,204
He actually just graduated.

550
00:36:29,644 --> 00:36:30,244
He's 17.

551
00:36:30,364 --> 00:36:31,364
He graduated a year early.

552
00:36:31,584 --> 00:36:34,104
He was homeschooled, you know, all the way up through high school.

553
00:36:35,024 --> 00:36:41,284
Saxon, our daughter, when she got into high school, she, you know, approached us and said,

554
00:36:41,284 --> 00:36:47,944
I'm interested in going to – getting kind of a high school experience is the way she framed it.

555
00:36:48,564 --> 00:36:52,924
And so we found a local private Christian school that she's now attending.

556
00:36:53,944 --> 00:36:59,524
And she's 15, but she's got the mind of an adult already.

557
00:37:00,284 --> 00:37:04,644
And I credit a lot of that to homeschooling and her being around us, frankly.

558
00:37:05,564 --> 00:37:13,424
And so, you know, the way she approached us even was very mature and, you know, very like, here's kind of how I'm thinking about it.

559
00:37:13,464 --> 00:37:15,284
And so we were like, all right, cool.

560
00:37:15,304 --> 00:37:21,044
If that's what you want to do, you can't really force your kids at that age to do something they don't want to do.

561
00:37:21,124 --> 00:37:24,544
Then you just kind of – they start to resent you and all that kind of stuff.

562
00:37:24,544 --> 00:37:29,244
So, you know, we made the decision and she's now doing that.

563
00:37:29,784 --> 00:37:30,324
And it's been great.

564
00:37:30,504 --> 00:37:31,804
It's been a solid shift.

565
00:37:31,804 --> 00:37:34,224
I think everything she's learned in homeschool, she's taken with her.

566
00:37:34,484 --> 00:37:40,364
And, um, and so that's, that's been a little bit of a shift, but, uh, I, again, anyone who

567
00:37:40,364 --> 00:37:45,084
can't homeschool, I would just encourage you to, to really consider it and, um, take,

568
00:37:45,244 --> 00:37:50,224
take on the, um, take on the work, man.

569
00:37:50,224 --> 00:37:55,064
Like, like do, do the actual work because nothing easy is going to be worthwhile.

570
00:37:55,224 --> 00:37:59,564
And, um, if you're going to invest somewhere, it's like, this should be the one area where

571
00:37:59,564 --> 00:38:05,624
like, all right, cool. I'm down to, to put in the work. Yeah. I mean, it is undeniably a lot of work.

572
00:38:05,664 --> 00:38:10,584
I am so grateful to my parents for doing it again. That's as you, I think as you become a parent,

573
00:38:10,584 --> 00:38:14,544
you appreciate so many more things about what your parents did that you maybe didn't fully,

574
00:38:14,544 --> 00:38:18,204
didn't fully grasp at the time. And you realize, Oh wow. You know, you're like, you, you've made

575
00:38:18,204 --> 00:38:22,484
this sacrifice or that's like, wow. You know, I tell my parents, thank you a lot more now at this

576
00:38:22,484 --> 00:38:27,504
stage of my life. Let's just say that. And I'm so grateful for them. And you know, the, the

577
00:38:27,504 --> 00:38:33,704
homeschooling piece, I think it's just, it's sad that more folks, I think, view it as something

578
00:38:33,704 --> 00:38:37,644
that's out of their reach for a couple of reasons. And I think there's a couple of reasons for that.

579
00:38:37,904 --> 00:38:41,724
One of the reasons is they feel like, okay, well, I'm not equipped to home. I'm not a,

580
00:38:41,724 --> 00:38:44,924
I'm not a professional teacher. And I've been told that to teach kids, you need to be a

581
00:38:44,924 --> 00:38:48,764
professional teacher and go and, you know, go to, you know, university for this and do all these

582
00:38:48,764 --> 00:38:53,904
things. And it's like, my, my, my mom was not guys. She was a, she was an English major. Um,

583
00:38:53,904 --> 00:38:58,844
And she did not have any teaching experience whatsoever.

584
00:38:59,684 --> 00:39:04,104
And I turned out, I mean, I'm a little bit, you know, the wackadoodle and conspiracy theorist and everything.

585
00:39:04,144 --> 00:39:06,124
But I turned out pretty well overall.

586
00:39:06,224 --> 00:39:07,024
Not to toot my own horn.

587
00:39:07,104 --> 00:39:09,924
I'll toot my mother's though because she's responsible for it.

588
00:39:10,764 --> 00:39:15,104
But, you know, like they feel that, oh, I just, I don't know how to do it.

589
00:39:15,104 --> 00:39:21,744
It's like, if my mom can do it in like the nineties and early two thousands, I promise

590
00:39:21,744 --> 00:39:26,964
you can do it now because you have literally everything available to you online, like for

591
00:39:26,964 --> 00:39:27,424
free.

592
00:39:27,624 --> 00:39:28,024
Yeah.

593
00:39:28,024 --> 00:39:31,804
She would get like, you know, curriculums, you know, like for guidelines, like, you know,

594
00:39:32,064 --> 00:39:33,764
ordered in the mail sent to us.

595
00:39:33,764 --> 00:39:34,824
Like this was a different time.

596
00:39:34,924 --> 00:39:36,924
You have so many options available to you.

597
00:39:36,924 --> 00:39:39,704
You can, there's all sorts of cool stuff with AI tutors now too.

598
00:39:39,784 --> 00:39:43,884
Like to be able to work through specific subject matter, like you might not be great at math.

599
00:39:43,964 --> 00:39:44,464
That's okay.

600
00:39:44,464 --> 00:39:45,664
Like my mom wasn't either.

601
00:39:45,804 --> 00:39:48,364
I just had to read my Saxon math book cover to cover.

602
00:39:48,464 --> 00:39:49,944
But like you can get a cool AI tutor.

603
00:39:50,084 --> 00:39:53,384
I also had a Mennonite woman named Edith who tutored me in algebra for a while.

604
00:39:53,404 --> 00:39:55,124
That was actually, she was pretty cool.

605
00:39:55,344 --> 00:39:55,864
She was pretty cool.

606
00:39:56,224 --> 00:39:57,964
Dude, Saxon math is still a thing.

607
00:39:58,104 --> 00:39:58,464
That's what I think.

608
00:39:58,824 --> 00:39:59,064
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

609
00:40:00,084 --> 00:40:02,304
But dude, also the bar is so low.

610
00:40:02,404 --> 00:40:09,564
I mean, if you think about what public education is like providing in terms of actual education.

611
00:40:10,404 --> 00:40:12,904
Yeah, the bar is incredibly low.

612
00:40:13,124 --> 00:40:13,704
It's funny.

613
00:40:13,704 --> 00:40:17,184
one of the things that, you know, Saxon, when she approached us that she kind of alluded

614
00:40:17,184 --> 00:40:19,484
to, and we, you know, we have a great relationship with our kids.

615
00:40:19,564 --> 00:40:22,204
They talk to us about everything that, you know, they share pretty openly.

616
00:40:22,644 --> 00:40:25,724
One of the things she pointed, she was like, homeschooling is hard.

617
00:40:25,904 --> 00:40:28,564
Like mom is like, she makes it hard.

618
00:40:29,024 --> 00:40:30,784
And I was kind of proud of that.

619
00:40:30,824 --> 00:40:31,424
I was like, okay, good.

620
00:40:31,484 --> 00:40:33,444
Like it should be, it should be hard.

621
00:40:33,444 --> 00:40:38,664
Like school, if you want your kids to actually be trained in how to, again, how to be a human

622
00:40:38,664 --> 00:40:42,204
and how to, how to learn, right?

623
00:40:42,204 --> 00:40:45,184
It's not, this is the thing that you don't learn at public school.

624
00:40:45,384 --> 00:40:47,464
They don't teach you how to learn, right?

625
00:40:47,564 --> 00:40:52,624
They just throw shit at you and like expect you to memorize facts and, you know, and by

626
00:40:52,624 --> 00:40:55,164
the way, their version of the facts, right?

627
00:40:55,164 --> 00:41:00,144
And so it's like what we instilled in our kids was here's how to learn.

628
00:41:00,284 --> 00:41:04,604
And we would use phrases like even when we're going through the curriculum, you know, that

629
00:41:04,604 --> 00:41:11,084
we bought or whatever, it isn't here's what happened in 19, whatever.

630
00:41:11,564 --> 00:41:13,964
It's here's what this book says happened.

631
00:41:14,644 --> 00:41:16,144
This is one version of history.

632
00:41:16,244 --> 00:41:20,044
By the way, there's other viewpoints on this that are interesting.

633
00:41:20,784 --> 00:41:22,324
And so that's really the key.

634
00:41:22,444 --> 00:41:38,824
It's like you don't want your kids just to memorize a bunch of facts that they were told that this is the way that it is that you may or may not agree with, by the way, if you're sending them off to a public school and someone else is telling them, here's what happened in this version of history.

635
00:41:38,824 --> 00:41:46,064
you get to teach your kids no this is how you learn and this is one version of the way the

636
00:41:46,064 --> 00:41:49,984
story is told and it's it's especially important when it comes to history in my opinion i think

637
00:41:49,984 --> 00:41:55,304
history is one of those subjects where it's just like we're we're told you know here's the way

638
00:41:55,304 --> 00:41:59,964
it happened and don't question it ever and you know what i mean and it's just like that's not

639
00:41:59,964 --> 00:42:07,024
how things work at all no uh just jumping off on you mentioned just about the rigor like you know

640
00:42:07,024 --> 00:42:09,504
homeschooling is hard. It's funny.

641
00:42:09,864 --> 00:42:13,364
The primary reason I wanted to go to public school that I told my parents I

642
00:42:13,364 --> 00:42:16,604
wanted to do that was because I was pretty convinced. I was like, I'm,

643
00:42:17,024 --> 00:42:19,904
what if I'm an idiot? Like, what if I like, you know,

644
00:42:19,904 --> 00:42:20,884
and we do something like, you know,

645
00:42:20,884 --> 00:42:23,464
like you have to do something like still like standardized testing and stuff

646
00:42:23,464 --> 00:42:26,984
like that as a part of like being homeschooled. But I was just like, man,

647
00:42:27,004 --> 00:42:27,864
I was looking around, you know,

648
00:42:27,864 --> 00:42:30,664
and I had like plenty of friends and everything's that did a bunch of sports.

649
00:42:30,664 --> 00:42:33,144
I was involved in a bunch of different community activities. You know,

650
00:42:33,224 --> 00:42:36,224
the, this idea of like this freakish homeschool recluse,

651
00:42:36,224 --> 00:42:37,224
Like it didn't exist.

652
00:42:37,324 --> 00:42:41,104
I knew a lot of other homeschooled kids too, you know, and like, wasn't the case.

653
00:42:41,844 --> 00:42:46,464
And, but I was worried because I was like, I see my friends who go to public school and

654
00:42:46,464 --> 00:42:51,704
they do hours of homework every night after they've been in school for eight plus hours.

655
00:42:51,884 --> 00:42:54,304
And then they come home and they do more homework.

656
00:42:54,664 --> 00:42:57,264
Like, my God, they must be so far ahead of me.

657
00:42:57,424 --> 00:42:59,564
They must be just crazy far ahead of me.

658
00:42:59,944 --> 00:43:01,884
So like, I just, I need to go test myself.

659
00:43:01,884 --> 00:43:06,304
I need to go test my mettle and see, you know, make sure I'm not an idiot.

660
00:43:06,404 --> 00:43:07,024
Maybe I am.

661
00:43:07,064 --> 00:43:07,944
And then I need to work hard.

662
00:43:08,324 --> 00:43:08,684
Okay.

663
00:43:09,344 --> 00:43:14,444
And then I get to public school and, you know, you're laughing because you know what happens next.

664
00:43:14,504 --> 00:43:17,604
I was like, oh, my God, this is so easy.

665
00:43:17,924 --> 00:43:20,024
Like, this is stupidly easy.

666
00:43:20,524 --> 00:43:23,044
This is, like, honestly, embarrassingly so.

667
00:43:23,424 --> 00:43:28,804
I found one of the biggest shocks to me was I, like I mentioned, I would do every problem in my Saxon math book.

668
00:43:28,804 --> 00:43:32,904
I would never skip a problem, never skip a chapter, front to back, reading these myself.

669
00:43:33,064 --> 00:43:38,704
And then I had my nice Mennonite tutor who would come in and help me out with concepts I didn't understand.

670
00:43:39,604 --> 00:43:44,204
And kind of helped found like a little small charter school with like 10 or 15 kids in our area as well.

671
00:43:45,664 --> 00:43:51,164
And I got to public school and I found out they were like, okay, we're going to be skipping this chapter here.

672
00:43:51,184 --> 00:43:53,984
And we're just going to be doing odds today or evens today of the problems.

673
00:43:54,084 --> 00:43:55,544
I'm like, you guys aren't doing all of them.

674
00:43:55,544 --> 00:43:59,804
and then i remember the first time i found out that all the answers were in the back of the book

675
00:43:59,804 --> 00:44:03,304
like because i just hadn't like looked and like someone was like well why don't you just look in

676
00:44:03,304 --> 00:44:09,344
bob i'm like bob who's bob like back of book like you just i was like what's going on no one's

677
00:44:09,344 --> 00:44:14,144
learning anything and you also realize like you know i was the kid who was like very eager raising

678
00:44:14,144 --> 00:44:18,124
my hand because i like especially like in math and everything i was like i didn't know all the

679
00:44:18,124 --> 00:44:21,904
answers to this so the teacher's asking nobody's raising their hand well i'm gonna raise mine

680
00:44:21,904 --> 00:44:25,864
And you start to realize that like that sort of behavior gets,

681
00:44:25,984 --> 00:44:28,944
gets socially punished as well. That gets,

682
00:44:29,124 --> 00:44:31,264
that gets you looked down on as the, you know,

683
00:44:31,284 --> 00:44:34,664
the know it all or whatever it might be. So, I mean,

684
00:44:34,664 --> 00:44:37,464
I ended up graduating valedictorian. My school was not, not huge,

685
00:44:37,504 --> 00:44:39,304
but I graduated, you know, number one.

686
00:44:40,484 --> 00:44:44,184
And so I was confirmed not to be an idiot or maybe still am an idiot,

687
00:44:44,184 --> 00:44:47,564
but the bar was so damn low, but I was just, I was blown away.

688
00:44:47,564 --> 00:44:51,344
I was blown away at the lack of rigor. And there were some, I had,

689
00:44:51,344 --> 00:44:54,344
I did have some really great teachers who I'm from a small town and I was like,

690
00:44:54,744 --> 00:44:57,184
I don't know what business you have being here, but I'm really glad you are.

691
00:44:57,184 --> 00:45:00,084
Like you're a very bright spot in this. Um, really,

692
00:45:00,144 --> 00:45:03,564
I think a lot of teachers are there because they truly care about kids.

693
00:45:03,564 --> 00:45:05,644
Like they really, really, truly care about kids.

694
00:45:05,844 --> 00:45:10,104
They are handicapped by a system of administrative bureaucrats.

695
00:45:10,104 --> 00:45:12,784
Like if you look one of those, uh, uh,

696
00:45:12,784 --> 00:45:15,604
what the fuck happened in 1971 graphs that they've got on that site.

697
00:45:16,144 --> 00:45:20,924
It's like number of school administrators versus number of teachers versus

698
00:45:20,924 --> 00:45:25,544
number of students and it's like teachers and students is basically like the same but administrators

699
00:45:25,544 --> 00:45:30,484
just goes through their sets all of your counselors and you know all of the different bureaucratic

700
00:45:30,484 --> 00:45:36,704
bureaucratic layers they don't do anything for actual education they don't actually help the

701
00:45:36,704 --> 00:45:41,684
kids it doesn't increase the teacher to student ratio at all they're just there to you know

702
00:45:41,684 --> 00:45:45,704
basically create problems for the teachers so that the teachers have to jump through even more hoops

703
00:45:45,704 --> 00:45:48,044
when they're just trying to get through their day and teach your kids.

704
00:45:48,644 --> 00:45:51,004
It's like – it's crazy.

705
00:45:51,104 --> 00:45:54,484
I'll have to find that graph and send it to you because it's one of those shocking things where you're like,

706
00:45:54,884 --> 00:45:56,204
well, look, here's the problem.

707
00:45:56,264 --> 00:46:00,804
And it happened – it kind of started around 1971 to see this divergence.

708
00:46:00,924 --> 00:46:04,864
I'm not trying to say Fiat ruins everything, but boy, it really seems to ruin most things.

709
00:46:05,424 --> 00:46:05,504
Wow.

710
00:46:06,104 --> 00:46:06,884
That's fascinating.

711
00:46:07,464 --> 00:46:11,664
Yeah, I think also too, one thing people don't realize, this is just kind of like on a really practical level.

712
00:46:12,384 --> 00:46:15,504
Like you mentioned, a lot of people think that homeschooling is out of reach.

713
00:46:15,704 --> 00:46:22,824
It's amazing, not just the resources and technology, but dude, the state will sometimes give you money to homeschool.

714
00:46:23,064 --> 00:46:24,024
I mean, depending on what state you're in.

715
00:46:24,104 --> 00:46:27,224
So I've lived, we homeschooled in, we lived in California and now we live in Arizona.

716
00:46:27,864 --> 00:46:32,724
Both states, I can't believe this about California actually, give you money.

717
00:46:32,724 --> 00:46:38,824
They will literally write you a check for things like curriculum and whatever you need for school.

718
00:46:39,384 --> 00:46:42,564
And I think that's actually pretty prevalent in most states.

719
00:46:42,564 --> 00:46:56,404
So depending on where you live, like Arizona gives you like six grand a year per kid that, you know, it's not cash in your bank account, but it's money that you can use to buy like a MacBook for their education, you know.

720
00:46:56,904 --> 00:47:02,404
And so that little those little things do help, you know, if again, if you feel like it's out of your reach.

721
00:47:02,544 --> 00:47:07,284
So don't just like dismiss it out of pocket and be like, no, that's not that's not for me.

722
00:47:07,284 --> 00:47:11,784
I could never like, you know, give yourself some credit, you know, be a leader and, and, you know,

723
00:47:11,784 --> 00:47:17,464
try to make it happen and look into the resources. Yeah. I think the other, the other piece of it

724
00:47:17,464 --> 00:47:22,544
feeling out of reach for a lot of people is both parents are working because both parents are,

725
00:47:22,544 --> 00:47:29,964
are forced to be working because we are on a Fiat hamster mill treadmill and you, you need to do

726
00:47:29,964 --> 00:47:34,384
that. So you're, you, you spend, you know, both parents spend their whole days working,

727
00:47:34,384 --> 00:47:38,964
outsourcing the care of their kids to the state.

728
00:47:39,484 --> 00:47:39,924
Yeah.

729
00:47:40,124 --> 00:47:56,308
And it like that that can be what you want Like you you don most people like if given the choice like should one parent stay home and like like let be honest like usually the mother cause they are more naturally caregiving and nurturing Like this this is just a fact folks

730
00:47:56,808 --> 00:48:03,188
And anyone who has a mother or knows women knows this. So like this shouldn't be controversial,

731
00:48:03,188 --> 00:48:08,148
but like we have gotten so far away from that to now it's the point where it's like, Oh,

732
00:48:08,148 --> 00:48:12,708
both parents are working and but most of one parent's salary is going to pay for the you know

733
00:48:12,708 --> 00:48:16,548
expensive inner city preschool because they or inner city you know elementary school private

734
00:48:16,548 --> 00:48:20,668
school because you know they can't send them to the public one because like in chicago for example

735
00:48:20,668 --> 00:48:28,108
it's just complete garbage like the literacy rates are like insanely embarrassingly low

736
00:48:28,108 --> 00:48:32,928
and so it's like you're spending all your time working to pay for somebody else to raise your kid

737
00:48:32,928 --> 00:48:37,648
yeah in what world does that make sense well in the fiat world it makes sense right because that's

738
00:48:37,648 --> 00:48:42,628
just how it has to be done. We need more, we need more tax slaves, you know, like ever more tax

739
00:48:42,628 --> 00:48:47,848
slaves. That's the, that's the only answer, right? Oh man. Yeah. That one's heartbreaking. Cause you

740
00:48:47,848 --> 00:48:52,308
know, it's, it's hard, it's really hard to tell someone who's, you know, has two parents that are

741
00:48:52,308 --> 00:48:55,928
working that, you know, one of them should consider quitting their, their job or stopping

742
00:48:55,928 --> 00:49:02,948
their career to do this. But I mean, what else do you say other than like, you should, you should

743
00:49:02,948 --> 00:49:07,468
really consider it, you know, like figure out a way to make it work, figure out a way. And

744
00:49:07,468 --> 00:49:15,468
I agree with you, like practically and sort of like throughout history, it's been the mom that stays home and takes care of the kids.

745
00:49:15,468 --> 00:49:17,748
Like it's just kind of how the world has worked.

746
00:49:17,808 --> 00:49:26,908
And if we're talking about going back to the basics and going back to, you know, sound parenting, that's what my encouragement would be if you can find a way to do that.

747
00:49:27,048 --> 00:49:31,448
So, yeah, I mean, I think we're selling homeschooling pretty hard here, Walker.

748
00:49:31,668 --> 00:49:33,568
And hopefully people get the message.

749
00:49:33,568 --> 00:49:36,708
But like, I think this message is needed.

750
00:49:36,708 --> 00:49:39,648
Like people don't talk about this because it's controversial.

751
00:49:39,808 --> 00:49:40,388
It's hard.

752
00:49:40,448 --> 00:49:41,408
It's hard to say these things.

753
00:49:42,248 --> 00:49:50,308
And people push back because, you know, it's hard to afford life right now, you know, and it feels like we don't have two jobs.

754
00:49:50,308 --> 00:49:53,148
Like, how am I going to pay the rent and how am I going to put food on the table and all that kind of stuff?

755
00:49:53,148 --> 00:50:03,688
But you'll find a way just like in the same way that like when you became a parent and all of a sudden your instincts came, you know, kicked in and you just figured it out how to how to care for a child.

756
00:50:03,688 --> 00:50:06,828
I think this is, it's kind of similar in some ways.

757
00:50:06,828 --> 00:50:08,548
Like you'll figure out where to cut costs.

758
00:50:08,548 --> 00:50:13,448
You'll figure out how to adjust your lifestyle to, to make this work, but it won't happen

759
00:50:13,448 --> 00:50:14,408
if you don't make it a priority.

760
00:50:14,408 --> 00:50:18,248
And if you don't think that it's important and if you think that, oh, they'll be fine,

761
00:50:18,348 --> 00:50:19,128
that kind of a thing.

762
00:50:19,128 --> 00:50:21,808
Like this kind of comes back to intentionality.

763
00:50:21,808 --> 00:50:27,588
Like you have to make a decision that you are the best person to be in your kid's life

764
00:50:27,588 --> 00:50:31,648
and be the influence and be the role model and be the teacher.

765
00:50:31,648 --> 00:50:34,708
Like actually be the person that teaches them.

766
00:50:34,788 --> 00:50:39,148
I think we're kind of – we're born in this world and we have all these assumptions.

767
00:50:39,288 --> 00:50:45,228
One of those assumptions is that sending your kid to public school is what people do because most people, that is what they do.

768
00:50:45,548 --> 00:50:47,388
And it is in a lot of ways the easier choice.

769
00:50:48,528 --> 00:50:55,588
But if we're thinking sort of as Bitcoiners, if we're thinking from first principles, like we have to question this.

770
00:50:55,588 --> 00:50:59,968
It's like this isn't the automatic thing that like we've done throughout history.

771
00:50:59,968 --> 00:51:08,268
And we should question why most people do this and if it's actually right for you as somebody who thinks differently.

772
00:51:08,588 --> 00:51:11,548
Like if you're listening to this podcast, you probably are a Bitcoiner.

773
00:51:11,868 --> 00:51:13,588
You probably think differently about the world.

774
00:51:13,648 --> 00:51:20,148
And this is one of those areas that I think you should be challenged to think differently and make some maybe uncomfortable decisions.

775
00:51:21,148 --> 00:51:24,228
Well, I think the other – I couldn't agree more with you first of all.

776
00:51:24,228 --> 00:51:36,288
And I think another thing that people really aren't grokking yet is that the current public school convention is really not prepared for the post-AI world.

777
00:51:36,828 --> 00:51:39,388
Like it's really – it's just not.

778
00:51:39,648 --> 00:51:46,028
Like rote memorization was never that helpful, like except in certain cases it can be.

779
00:51:46,128 --> 00:51:52,648
But like generally just as that being the gold standard of public education, let's just have them memorize stuff and take this test.

780
00:51:52,648 --> 00:51:56,348
And that, you know, that's how we'll make them, you know, better little worker bees that are great at following instructions.

781
00:51:57,068 --> 00:52:04,828
But like in the, in the post AI world, you need to radically rethink what education should look like.

782
00:52:04,828 --> 00:52:10,768
And like to the earlier point of me being blown away when I found, you know, I was like, my friends are in school all day long.

783
00:52:10,768 --> 00:52:12,608
And then they come home and they do more homework.

784
00:52:12,888 --> 00:52:17,628
I would do all of my work within like two to three hours in the morning.

785
00:52:17,628 --> 00:52:21,148
Wake up, you know, wake up, wake up early at the crack of dawn, do all of my work.

786
00:52:21,148 --> 00:52:25,148
can I be done by like 9am, 10am after putting in a few hours?

787
00:52:25,528 --> 00:52:27,908
I would go play outside or go do random things where my mom would,

788
00:52:28,268 --> 00:52:31,608
one day she sent me off to a practicing blacksmith's house.

789
00:52:32,568 --> 00:52:34,828
And, and she, it's just something like random dude, super cool guy.

790
00:52:34,968 --> 00:52:37,768
I was like still a blacksmith. And, and he,

791
00:52:37,908 --> 00:52:40,508
so the first one who taught me about the Fibonacci sequence and how,

792
00:52:40,608 --> 00:52:42,888
like how that informs his work and all these things. And like,

793
00:52:42,888 --> 00:52:45,568
and then show me the practical application of that in, you know,

794
00:52:45,628 --> 00:52:47,928
in smithing. And I was like, that was really cool.

795
00:52:47,988 --> 00:52:50,288
Like I'll never forget that day. And that's the thing.

796
00:52:50,288 --> 00:52:54,308
Bitcoin gives you more control over your time, right?

797
00:52:54,608 --> 00:53:01,128
And I think one of the best things that you can do for your child is to give them more time,

798
00:53:01,188 --> 00:53:05,748
more time that they're not just sitting in a chair, having their butts planted

799
00:53:05,748 --> 00:53:10,608
and being told to walk in a straight line on the hallway to cater to the lowest common denominator of student.

800
00:53:10,608 --> 00:53:17,908
And I'm sorry, but if you're listening to this, you at least have a few brain cells to rub together

801
00:53:17,908 --> 00:53:20,068
and hopefully your kids will not be the lowest common denominator.

802
00:53:20,288 --> 00:53:28,448
But all – what you have to understand is that all of the public school system, all – so much of so many of our systems, but let's focus on public school.

803
00:53:28,828 --> 00:53:33,608
All of the public school system is built around catering to the lowest common denominator.

804
00:53:34,288 --> 00:53:36,268
It's like – it just is.

805
00:53:37,108 --> 00:53:40,268
And so if you – like your child will revert to that.

806
00:53:40,588 --> 00:53:41,888
Like they will revert towards that.

807
00:53:41,888 --> 00:53:58,988
They are not going to be, they're not going to get better than, than they, or, you know, better than they could be because the system isn't built for that. It's built to keep everybody basically in line and it has to be just easy enough and just pleasant enough that it caters to the people who are at the very, very bottom. So they don't get left behind.

808
00:53:58,988 --> 00:54:05,188
and maybe that's what you want for your kid but i kind of doubt it like i kind of doubt it like

809
00:54:05,188 --> 00:54:09,448
most most parents who give a shit about their kids wouldn't and so it's like yeah i would i

810
00:54:09,448 --> 00:54:13,768
would highly encourage people like as somebody who was homeschooled as somebody who's you know

811
00:54:13,768 --> 00:54:21,508
we are going to homeschool our son like you know at least give it a shot like yeah i love your point

812
00:54:21,508 --> 00:54:27,508
i love your point about time i think it's a really important thing it's not just it's the

813
00:54:27,508 --> 00:54:33,728
flexibility of time too. It's like the opportunity to bring Kingston to every conference, you know,

814
00:54:33,728 --> 00:54:37,088
since I've worked there, that wouldn't have happened if he was in public school, right?

815
00:54:37,248 --> 00:54:41,348
Like the flexibility to be like, oh yeah, we're going to go on a, you know, four day trip to

816
00:54:41,348 --> 00:54:46,008
Miami and he's going to come with me. I don't have to worry about, you know, getting whatever

817
00:54:46,008 --> 00:54:52,028
dismissed from school and getting like a excused absence or whatever. It's like, no, I just talked

818
00:54:52,028 --> 00:54:57,488
to my wife and like, what better classroom than a Bitcoin conference for him to be at, right?

819
00:54:58,148 --> 00:55:00,028
And that's, I mean, I think it's paid dividends.

820
00:55:00,128 --> 00:55:02,648
I think it's, you want to talk about socialization.

821
00:55:02,648 --> 00:55:05,968
You want to talk about just education on the fly.

822
00:55:06,028 --> 00:55:11,068
It's like your version of going to a blacksmith's house is going to a Bitcoin conference.

823
00:55:11,068 --> 00:55:17,108
And so having that flexibility of time and just like being able to get up and go on a

824
00:55:17,108 --> 00:55:22,048
vacation or, you know, whatever it is, like that's also a huge benefit of homeschooling.

825
00:55:22,168 --> 00:55:27,288
You don't have to mess with like, oh no, you know, we can't do this because they got school

826
00:55:27,288 --> 00:55:31,948
or they got a test next week or whatever, like you make the rules, like you take control of your

827
00:55:31,948 --> 00:55:37,028
time back. And it's such a huge advantage, um, for, for your kids and just for your lifestyle,

828
00:55:37,028 --> 00:55:43,248
like reclaim that, you know, you're, you become a prisoner to that, that, uh, that school schedule

829
00:55:43,248 --> 00:55:48,088
that is very oppressive. Um, and, and so I think that's a huge benefit that isn't,

830
00:55:48,088 --> 00:55:53,528
isn't talked about a lot. Um, you know, and to your point about AI, like, dude, absolutely.

831
00:55:53,528 --> 00:55:55,408
This is kind of a terrifying one.

832
00:55:56,148 --> 00:56:05,028
But like if you think about AI in public schools too, you know, just like to kind of flip the conversation a little bit.

833
00:56:05,308 --> 00:56:13,808
It's like it makes the public school system so much more useful knowing that, you know, ChadGBT exists or useless, I should say.

834
00:56:14,208 --> 00:56:20,348
Knowing ChadGBT exists, it's like I'm just going to plug my homework into that and it's just going to do my homework for me.

835
00:56:20,348 --> 00:56:26,508
So it's like it kind of exposes how useless public school is because everything can be done by child-eating.

836
00:56:26,728 --> 00:56:27,488
Okay, so it's now what?

837
00:56:27,648 --> 00:56:29,228
Now what is education, right?

838
00:56:29,648 --> 00:56:32,668
It was already done when you got the answers in the back of your book.

839
00:56:32,788 --> 00:56:35,388
Now you can just have a robot do your thing.

840
00:56:35,468 --> 00:56:37,928
It's just like, okay, that covers every other subject.

841
00:56:38,568 --> 00:56:41,728
And so it goes back to flexibility.

842
00:56:41,888 --> 00:56:46,588
Like having the flexibility to adapt and to figure out, okay, what does this mean?

843
00:56:46,588 --> 00:56:54,388
How do I teach my kid to integrate this new technology that's not going anywhere and be able to make that adjustment on the fly?

844
00:56:54,488 --> 00:56:59,748
Meanwhile, the public school structure and infrastructure is so far behind.

845
00:56:59,868 --> 00:57:02,468
It's like there is no way it's going to pivot anytime soon.

846
00:57:02,588 --> 00:57:04,268
It's already trying to catch up to the internet, right?

847
00:57:04,508 --> 00:57:12,348
It still hasn't even caught up to what's happening with the world of the internet existing, let alone AI existing.

848
00:57:12,348 --> 00:57:18,548
And so that flexibility is invaluable to be able to say, okay, this exists.

849
00:57:19,008 --> 00:57:20,688
How do I incorporate this?

850
00:57:21,028 --> 00:57:25,408
And technology in general, I mean, that was another – discipline was probably the hardest section to write.

851
00:57:25,868 --> 00:57:28,648
The technology section was probably the second hardest.

852
00:57:28,868 --> 00:57:33,568
But how do you teach your kid to have a cell phone responsibly?

853
00:57:34,068 --> 00:57:40,948
What are you teaching them about taking photos or being in photos or their online identity?

854
00:57:40,948 --> 00:57:45,728
Like, uh, these are all very practical or even just like, um, uh, manners, you know,

855
00:57:45,768 --> 00:57:46,808
manners with, with phones.

856
00:57:46,808 --> 00:57:51,128
Like one of the things that we have in our home is, uh, is like very practical.

857
00:57:51,228 --> 00:57:52,628
No, no screens at the table.

858
00:57:52,788 --> 00:57:57,468
We don't allow any, you know, whatever, uh, devices or whatever.

859
00:57:57,468 --> 00:58:00,388
Like you're not going to be sitting at a restaurant on an iPad ever.

860
00:58:00,468 --> 00:58:01,228
That's not a thing.

861
00:58:01,808 --> 00:58:06,128
Um, and you're not going to be pulling out your phone and, you know, checking your texts

862
00:58:06,128 --> 00:58:07,568
while we're sitting at the dinner table eating.

863
00:58:07,568 --> 00:58:13,188
and by the way you should be sitting at the dinner table and eating with your children like

864
00:58:13,188 --> 00:58:21,148
it's like a very uh back to basics type of thing but so much so much uh parenting happens at the

865
00:58:21,148 --> 00:58:27,108
dinner table it's it's it's ridiculous and so um not having devices not having the distraction of

866
00:58:27,108 --> 00:58:32,488
that is like creating a sacred space where you're communicating with your children and you're

867
00:58:32,488 --> 00:58:37,408
actually having conversations um and protecting that space and saying like you know we're not

868
00:58:37,408 --> 00:58:41,588
going to be interrupted by anything that's outside of what's happening right here as we share a meal.

869
00:58:42,648 --> 00:58:47,148
I think it's a really important thing. So kind of off on a tangent in 18 different directions,

870
00:58:47,308 --> 00:58:52,688
but I think it's all kind of connected. No, it's a safe space for tangents. I'm curious too,

871
00:58:52,848 --> 00:58:58,088
because your kids are now getting to this age. How are you guys looking at college? Like,

872
00:58:58,088 --> 00:59:02,348
is this something that they're planning to do? Are they going more of a trade school route?

873
00:59:02,868 --> 00:59:05,948
How have you guys been thinking about that or talking to your kids about it?

874
00:59:05,948 --> 00:59:12,068
yeah so um so Kingston's already decided he's not going to college he's like that's not for me um

875
00:59:12,068 --> 00:59:19,028
and you know he's he's 17 years old trying to really start his career and and he's been applying

876
00:59:19,028 --> 00:59:23,648
for he's already here he works at Chick-fil-a he had like an internship actually at strike

877
00:59:23,648 --> 00:59:28,868
um because he met Jack Mallers at a conference and Jack was very impressed with him and he's like

878
00:59:28,868 --> 00:59:32,848
when you're old enough we're we're gonna get you on the team and you know he was a man of his word

879
00:59:32,848 --> 00:59:34,368
and got him on the team.

880
00:59:34,448 --> 00:59:35,608
So he spent some time on strike,

881
00:59:35,988 --> 00:59:37,168
spent some time with BTC Inc.

882
00:59:37,168 --> 00:59:38,188
actually as an intern too.

883
00:59:38,368 --> 00:59:40,548
So he's already got like some experience

884
00:59:40,548 --> 00:59:42,108
in the workforce

885
00:59:42,108 --> 00:59:45,548
and he's actively interviewing

886
00:59:45,548 --> 00:59:47,508
and looking for a job.

887
00:59:49,368 --> 00:59:52,148
Saxon, she's a sophomore in high school now

888
00:59:52,148 --> 00:59:54,088
and it's an open question.

889
00:59:54,188 --> 00:59:56,648
It's one that we're holding very open-handedly.

890
00:59:57,708 --> 00:59:59,288
I would say my wife and I

891
00:59:59,288 --> 01:00:01,488
come from different sides of this.

892
01:00:01,568 --> 01:00:02,608
She went to college.

893
01:00:02,608 --> 01:00:03,408
I did not.

894
01:00:04,188 --> 01:00:07,528
And so we have opinions and we share our opinions very openly.

895
01:00:08,068 --> 01:00:11,068
And Saxon ultimately is going to make a decision.

896
01:00:11,208 --> 01:00:15,688
I'm actually still pretty curious on what she's going to decide because, you know, I

897
01:00:15,688 --> 01:00:18,468
kind of see it going either direction for her.

898
01:00:19,408 --> 01:00:22,908
So, yeah, it's one that is an active conversation in our household.

899
01:00:24,208 --> 01:00:30,568
It's such a tough one because, you know, and obviously my son is a lot younger, you

900
01:00:30,568 --> 01:00:31,728
know, under two years old.

901
01:00:31,728 --> 01:00:35,628
So like Carl and I talk about this all the time, like what is, what is college?

902
01:00:35,688 --> 01:00:40,528
What is the university system going to look like in, you know, 16 years when, you know,

903
01:00:40,548 --> 01:00:43,688
he'd be the typical age of, of, you know, going to college.

904
01:00:43,688 --> 01:00:45,968
Like what is that even going to be like?

905
01:00:45,968 --> 01:00:48,568
Is it, is it going to exist in the same way?

906
01:00:49,328 --> 01:00:53,648
Is it, you know, is the price of it going to continue rising with inflation or is it

907
01:00:53,648 --> 01:00:57,728
going to be start to be, you know, repriced to its utility value instead of its credentialed

908
01:00:57,728 --> 01:00:58,428
fiat value?

909
01:00:58,428 --> 01:01:00,268
Because that's a, you know, a huge issue, right?

910
01:01:00,268 --> 01:01:02,568
Like Carl, also Carl and I met in school.

911
01:01:02,688 --> 01:01:04,748
Like we met like the first week of college.

912
01:01:04,748 --> 01:01:07,688
So like, you know, it has some benefits.

913
01:01:07,948 --> 01:01:14,328
You know, I don't use a lot of what I learned there in school, in the classroom, but I wouldn't be where I am today.

914
01:01:14,328 --> 01:01:17,008
I wouldn't have my wife and our son without it.

915
01:01:17,228 --> 01:01:24,908
It's not to say you can't, you know, meet somebody outside of college too, but like, you know, it's a, was it Mark Twain who said, you know, never let school interfere with your education.

916
01:01:25,608 --> 01:01:27,648
So, you know, it's, it's a tough question.

917
01:01:27,688 --> 01:01:29,188
I think a lot of people are struggling with it.

918
01:01:29,188 --> 01:01:32,788
I'm kind of glad I don't have to worry about it for at least a little while yet.

919
01:01:32,788 --> 01:01:38,668
I have a little bit of time to see how the dust settles and see what the collegiate education system looks like.

920
01:01:38,708 --> 01:01:44,528
Because honestly, I have no idea how it's going to look in 10, 15, 20 years.

921
01:01:44,728 --> 01:01:47,988
I struggle to figure out what that's going to be.

922
01:01:49,068 --> 01:01:49,988
Yeah, no, totally.

923
01:01:50,128 --> 01:01:51,328
I mean, you raise a good point.

924
01:01:51,328 --> 01:02:04,008
One thing as your kids get older, you start thinking about more is who their potential mates are going to be, you know, and then the environments that they're in kind of dictates that.

925
01:02:04,088 --> 01:02:09,648
So it's like if they're if if they are going to college, like what college is it?

926
01:02:09,648 --> 01:02:12,508
And are they going to be around people that make good suitors?

927
01:02:13,088 --> 01:02:14,128
This is a tough one.

928
01:02:14,128 --> 01:02:19,268
This one, you know, this is the current struggle with teenagers is like, you know, I don't.

929
01:02:19,268 --> 01:02:24,008
like Tinder and all that shit. Like, uh, man, I just,

930
01:02:24,508 --> 01:02:29,588
it's stressful as a parent because the, the dating pool is not great, you know?

931
01:02:29,768 --> 01:02:35,188
Um, and, and so I think this goes back to wanting to surround my kids by, uh,

932
01:02:35,188 --> 01:02:38,648
with Bitcoiners because that would be the, that would be the dream, right?

933
01:02:38,648 --> 01:02:41,688
Like, is this like almost like a pseudo, like arranged marriage?

934
01:02:41,688 --> 01:02:47,668
Like anyone out there have like a 15, 16 year old, let's talk, you know,

935
01:02:47,668 --> 01:02:54,848
I think, uh, I know it sounds crazy, but I'm just like, I want to be very intentional about every,

936
01:02:54,948 --> 01:02:58,488
every part of this. And it's not like a matter of like literally like a range marriage, like

937
01:02:58,488 --> 01:03:02,168
forcing my kids into anything, but it's literally just putting them in environments where

938
01:03:02,168 --> 01:03:07,788
there's a high likelihood that they're going to meet somebody that is going to be a good match.

939
01:03:07,788 --> 01:03:13,708
Right. I just believe in that. I just, I just think like, I have a very specific list of criteria.

940
01:03:13,708 --> 01:03:18,428
I tell my daughter, I'm like, listen, don't bring home anybody that's like vaccinated.

941
01:03:19,208 --> 01:03:23,008
First of all, sorry, that's just a high bar.

942
01:03:23,468 --> 01:03:36,468
Bring home someone from a good family, somebody who, you know, is thinking about their future and has like career aspirations, somebody who works hard.

943
01:03:37,088 --> 01:03:39,408
And it's a lot of things that like Bitcoiners are.

944
01:03:39,808 --> 01:03:41,328
And so that would be great.

945
01:03:41,388 --> 01:03:41,968
That would be ideal.

946
01:03:41,968 --> 01:03:47,488
obviously i'm not telling her you need to bring home a bitcoiner but uh just hinting at it yeah

947
01:03:47,488 --> 01:03:54,748
totally so um yeah the the spectrum of like arranged marriage and and to tinder is great

948
01:03:54,748 --> 01:04:00,868
is a crazy wide spectrum right and i am like let's find something in the maybe in the middle

949
01:04:00,868 --> 01:04:06,468
maybe we can find you know something yeah more traditional it's it's crazy because like i mean i

950
01:04:06,468 --> 01:04:11,768
was i never like used the dating apps because it was just like that was like after kind of you know

951
01:04:11,768 --> 01:04:18,228
by my time right like i mean yeah they existed but like you know when uh you know like when i was in

952
01:04:18,228 --> 01:04:22,988
college even but like they weren't to the extent they are today and i feel like that's like it used

953
01:04:22,988 --> 01:04:28,048
to be have you seen the the chart uh it's the visualization basically showing the breakdown of

954
01:04:28,048 --> 01:04:33,048
where people met or how they met their their spouse over time and it's like it used to be like

955
01:04:33,048 --> 01:04:38,348
you know like church you know neighborhood uh community event like that kind of thing like

956
01:04:38,348 --> 01:04:44,588
all very physical uh kind of local type things and it starts to change and it you know goes to

957
01:04:44,588 --> 01:04:48,348
like workplace and and uh you know workplace comes in there because you know more women are

958
01:04:48,348 --> 01:04:51,288
entering the workplace and then it comes to university as well and that starts you know

959
01:04:51,288 --> 01:04:55,348
taking up a larger part of it and you know so school takes up a bigger part of it and then it's

960
01:04:55,348 --> 01:05:00,288
like you know more recent like since dating apps it's like that one just starts out stripping like

961
01:05:00,288 --> 01:05:05,108
everything else it just it's kind of wild because it's like it's it's this very like

962
01:05:05,108 --> 01:05:11,528
it's this very fiat selection you know it's like literally instant gratification i mean it's it's

963
01:05:11,528 --> 01:05:16,808
swiping right like it's you know just looking looking for the the next best thing and always

964
01:05:16,808 --> 01:05:22,508
wondering well did i did i find the best option that i could and i think that that like that

965
01:05:22,508 --> 01:05:27,928
ultimately like just doesn't work super well and not that like and i know plenty of people who met

966
01:05:27,928 --> 01:05:32,808
through dating apps happily married having kids that's fantastic i'm could not be happier for him

967
01:05:32,808 --> 01:05:36,368
but like, I mean, I guess we'll see like in the next 20 years,

968
01:05:36,368 --> 01:05:38,128
if divorce rates start to go down,

969
01:05:38,128 --> 01:05:42,268
cause dating apps turns out really fixed the problem or if they continue going

970
01:05:42,268 --> 01:05:46,448
up, like we'll see. But I don't know. I, I, I,

971
01:05:46,448 --> 01:05:50,468
I don't envy your position right now. Like I'm glad,

972
01:05:50,468 --> 01:05:54,368
I'm glad my son is still, still, still very little.

973
01:05:54,448 --> 01:05:57,768
It has a long way to go before that. Cause yeah. It's,

974
01:05:57,828 --> 01:06:01,428
it sounds rough as a dad. Oh man. Yeah. That's my next big challenge. So,

975
01:06:01,428 --> 01:06:04,188
uh yeah keep me in your prayers

976
01:06:04,188 --> 01:06:12,968
well you know okay there's we we have we have hit on the the parenting stuff uh a lot and we we had

977
01:06:12,968 --> 01:06:17,688
some other stuff to get into as well but honestly this has been just a a fantastic conversation

978
01:06:17,688 --> 01:06:23,248
around parenting uh so i i i hate to to cut it at all but like are you down to get into some other

979
01:06:23,248 --> 01:06:27,228
stuff too i mean we've we've done a pretty good job during the parenting side of things is there

980
01:06:27,228 --> 01:06:31,808
anything else you want to leave folks with on the parenting side before we maybe just kind of,

981
01:06:31,808 --> 01:06:36,188
we get into some more like it's more Bitcoin stuff. Not that parenting isn't actually what's

982
01:06:36,188 --> 01:06:39,688
more Bitcoin than parenting. Right. Uh, but you know what I mean? No, definitely. I mean,

983
01:06:39,708 --> 01:06:44,188
I actually believe that parenting is the lowest time preference thing you can do.

984
01:06:44,208 --> 01:06:48,528
If you really think about it, you know, if we're changing the world, it's, uh, it's,

985
01:06:48,528 --> 01:06:54,148
it's going to be go beyond us, right. It's, it's going to, it has to go into the next generation.

986
01:06:54,148 --> 01:07:10,248
And so I guess the last thing is just like really be thinking about your level of intentionality with the next generation and your responsibility to raise your kids with a level of intentionality that is required of you.

987
01:07:10,348 --> 01:07:12,908
It's not something that happens accidentally.

988
01:07:13,128 --> 01:07:14,788
They're not going to fall into good habits.

989
01:07:14,908 --> 01:07:18,288
They're not going to fall into being mature or having self-awareness.

990
01:07:19,108 --> 01:07:20,628
You have to do the work.

991
01:07:20,628 --> 01:07:24,668
And so, yeah, again, I'm not very good at promoting my book.

992
01:07:24,728 --> 01:07:26,888
I need to get better because it's something I really believe in.

993
01:07:26,988 --> 01:07:27,668
I love this book.

994
01:07:28,008 --> 01:07:29,848
You know, I feel like it's helpful.

995
01:07:30,348 --> 01:07:33,888
Everyone who's who's who's read it has had really, really good things to say about it.

996
01:07:33,928 --> 01:07:34,828
So I do.

997
01:07:34,928 --> 01:07:37,928
I need to be more confident in saying, like, you know, check it out.

998
01:07:38,008 --> 01:07:38,608
It's on Amazon.

999
01:07:38,788 --> 01:07:40,448
It's on Bitcoin magazine store.

1000
01:07:41,128 --> 01:07:42,468
And we'd love your thoughts.

1001
01:07:42,688 --> 01:07:44,648
And honestly, we'd love to talk about it more.

1002
01:07:44,688 --> 01:07:48,828
I think we need to find more more opportunities to have this conversation.

1003
01:07:48,828 --> 01:07:53,568
and so yeah appreciate you giving me the the opportunity to share dude for sure yeah everyone

1004
01:07:53,568 --> 01:07:58,588
should i still need to order it uh you know uh full disclosure so i'm super like especially after

1005
01:07:58,588 --> 01:08:03,308
this conversation i'm super stoked to dig into it i am not your bruh and yeah you know maybe we start

1006
01:08:03,308 --> 01:08:09,208
that bitcoin dad's podcast uh who knows we just had a bunch of people in the in the comments on

1007
01:08:09,208 --> 01:08:15,488
zap.stream uh just saying you know like i want one one guy just uh just did their first day of

1008
01:08:15,488 --> 01:08:20,028
homeschooling today, which is awesome. I've got another father of five, a bunch of, a bunch of

1009
01:08:20,028 --> 01:08:25,568
dads here in the chat. So like, I think it may be a, it may be a niche, maybe a niche for now,

1010
01:08:25,568 --> 01:08:30,928
but I think that like, as Bitcoin devours the world, you know, hopefully we get more and more

1011
01:08:30,928 --> 01:08:38,948
Bitcoin dads as well. And Bitcoin moms, like turns out you need both. I love it. Wild. Who

1012
01:08:38,948 --> 01:08:43,848
could have seen that coming, but okay. So let's, we'll shift gears a little bit. Again, everyone

1013
01:08:43,848 --> 01:08:49,608
should go check out the book. But you, so you have this side, right? You have your dad's side.

1014
01:08:49,688 --> 01:08:54,468
Then you also have your, you know, one of the same, two sides of the same coin, but you work

1015
01:08:54,468 --> 01:08:58,968
in the Bitcoin industry. You have now for a number of years. You are now working with Bitcoin for

1016
01:08:58,968 --> 01:09:05,588
corporations. Let's start with that a little bit. So are you still at BDC Inc as well as that, or

1017
01:09:05,588 --> 01:09:10,968
is it part of it? I'm actually, I wasn't clear on that. Okay. Yeah. So Bitcoin of corporations

1018
01:09:10,968 --> 01:09:18,428
started about a year ago. I partnered with Sharish at MicroStrategy at the time. We came up

1019
01:09:18,428 --> 01:09:21,388
with this concept of like, look, there's going to be a lot of people that are going to be following

1020
01:09:21,388 --> 01:09:26,268
the Michael Saylor playbook. So we created this initiative as a partnership between BGC Inc. and

1021
01:09:26,268 --> 01:09:32,428
Strategy. And so Bitcoin for Corporations is a network of these Bitcoin treasury companies.

1022
01:09:32,608 --> 01:09:39,148
We're now up to about 40 members. So it's been growing at a ridiculous rate. So originally,

1023
01:09:39,148 --> 01:09:43,268
it was a product of Bitcoin Magazine. So it was just one of the things that Bitcoin Magazine did.

1024
01:09:43,968 --> 01:09:48,068
At the time, I was managing director of Bitcoin Magazine. So I was leading our entire media

1025
01:09:48,068 --> 01:09:52,528
operation. And Bitcoin of Corporations was this, you know, this thing that I started,

1026
01:09:52,628 --> 01:09:57,288
I was really proud of, that was just kind of one of the things that we did. And as it grew,

1027
01:09:58,588 --> 01:10:02,928
we decided that, you know, we're going to spin it out to be its own division within the company.

1028
01:10:02,928 --> 01:10:07,068
So now, BTC Inc., you know, it's the parent company of Bitcoin Magazine,

1029
01:10:07,068 --> 01:10:12,408
the Bitcoin conference, UTXO, and then Bitcoin for corporations are kind of the four business

1030
01:10:12,408 --> 01:10:16,188
lines. And so when we spun it out, you know, I had to make a decision, like, am I going to,

1031
01:10:16,188 --> 01:10:22,228
you know, go lead this, this thing that I, that I started, or are we going to hire a director to

1032
01:10:22,228 --> 01:10:25,848
kind of take over? So I made the decision that, you know, I wanted to, I wanted to stick with

1033
01:10:25,848 --> 01:10:30,128
this Bitcoin for corporations thing. I think I had a lot of potential. And so, so now I'm the

1034
01:10:30,128 --> 01:10:37,048
managing director of Bitcoin for corporations. So that has been a very exciting journey. It's

1035
01:10:37,048 --> 01:10:44,328
obviously like the main narrative in the Bitcoin space right now. It's the demand for this is crazy.

1036
01:10:44,468 --> 01:10:50,208
I mean, everybody wants to be close to Sailor, to be close to the companies that are doing this.

1037
01:10:50,208 --> 01:10:58,728
And so this network that's kind of emerged has been, man, it's been a whirlwind. Like I just got

1038
01:10:58,728 --> 01:11:04,288
back from Hong Kong. And so my head's kind of still spinning. But, you know, the pipeline of

1039
01:11:04,288 --> 01:11:08,568
new companies that are coming online, you know, from outside of the Bitcoin space.

1040
01:11:08,568 --> 01:11:13,828
I think it's probably the most exciting development because we're seeing just like the growth in

1041
01:11:13,828 --> 01:11:19,008
various sectors and companies who are like, okay, I'm going to add Bitcoin in my balance

1042
01:11:19,008 --> 01:11:22,508
sheet because this is just a smart thing to do, not because they're just like, you know,

1043
01:11:22,548 --> 01:11:23,588
crypto native or whatever.

1044
01:11:24,728 --> 01:11:29,288
And so I think what we're seeing, there's a number of different like aspects of this.

1045
01:11:29,428 --> 01:11:34,068
You got kind of the pure play Bitcoin treasury companies that are just like, we're going to

1046
01:11:34,068 --> 01:11:48,732
raise money and we going to buy Bitcoin and we going to raise more money and we going to buy more Bitcoin And that like the flywheel I think that great There a handful of companies that are doing it The ones that are first to market in their region are usually the winners

1047
01:11:48,953 --> 01:11:52,313
Like there is very much a first mover advantage to this that's taking place.

1048
01:11:53,472 --> 01:11:57,393
And I think that probably has a limited time horizon in terms of like,

1049
01:11:57,692 --> 01:12:01,612
there's only so much capital that can go around for the pure play Bitcoin treasury companies.

1050
01:12:01,612 --> 01:12:05,273
and that capital is probably going to be allocated to, again, the first mover in a market.

1051
01:12:06,652 --> 01:12:11,652
But now kind of this next wave, the second wave is, again, these non-endemic companies that have a

1052
01:12:11,652 --> 01:12:16,373
core business. They have an operating business that's making money. And they're going to raise

1053
01:12:16,373 --> 01:12:21,152
money, but they're also going to use their profits to buy Bitcoin. And so to me, that's probably

1054
01:12:21,152 --> 01:12:26,032
going to be the more sustainable thing that we're going to see happening as capital kind of gets

1055
01:12:26,032 --> 01:12:31,292
allocated to the pure play companies. What's going to need to happen is you're going to have

1056
01:12:31,292 --> 01:12:35,232
to have a real business. You're going to have to have an underlying company that's profitable,

1057
01:12:35,232 --> 01:12:39,052
that makes money, that uses its profits to buy Bitcoin, because that's going to be

1058
01:12:39,052 --> 01:12:44,212
the more sustainable flywheel. And so, yeah, that's been a really fun part of what's been

1059
01:12:44,212 --> 01:12:48,972
emerging is seeing the different companies that are coming online that have nothing to do with

1060
01:12:48,972 --> 01:12:53,672
Bitcoin, but just recognize that this is where the ball is going. This is where the world is going.

1061
01:12:54,192 --> 01:12:58,252
Everything is going to be repriced in Bitcoin. Every company is going to be a Bitcoin company.

1062
01:12:58,252 --> 01:13:04,712
and it just, it feels like we're on our way to hyper Bitcoinization. It feels like all the things

1063
01:13:04,712 --> 01:13:09,393
that we've been dreaming up and we've been kind of planning for, you know, all of like the game,

1064
01:13:09,492 --> 01:13:13,032
we've talked about game theory for so long and now it's like happening, it's playing out.

1065
01:13:13,192 --> 01:13:17,933
And so it's exciting, man. I think I'm one of those people that, that believes this time is

1066
01:13:17,933 --> 01:13:23,492
different. You know, I think, I think when you have Bitcoin treasury companies buying more Bitcoin

1067
01:13:23,492 --> 01:13:29,833
that's being, that is being mined, you know, quarter over quarter, uh, that, that gap is,

1068
01:13:29,833 --> 01:13:35,652
is growing. It's not, it's not going down and they're buying, uh, exponentially more. Uh,

1069
01:13:35,672 --> 01:13:42,292
and so when you have a finite resource like Bitcoin, like I just don't see us having a

1070
01:13:42,292 --> 01:13:46,933
intense bear market. Like we have, I think the four year cycle thing is, is, is kind of over.

1071
01:13:48,052 --> 01:13:53,413
Well, it'll be interesting too, because like we've been in a fairly tight, uh, monetary

1072
01:13:53,413 --> 01:13:58,032
policy period for some time as well. And Bitcoin has actually done

1073
01:13:58,032 --> 01:14:02,192
shockingly well during that same period. So it'll be very interesting

1074
01:14:02,192 --> 01:14:05,732
to see what happens when, you know, the printers have still been

1075
01:14:05,732 --> 01:14:10,152
purring along, but we did have like a decrease in M2 during

1076
01:14:10,152 --> 01:14:14,032
the last half of Biden's admin. That did happen.

1077
01:14:14,132 --> 01:14:18,232
Liquidity came out of the system. So it'll be very interesting to see what happens when that really goes

1078
01:14:18,232 --> 01:14:22,192
full bore again. I think we're back up to new all-time highs in the M2

1079
01:14:22,192 --> 01:14:27,532
money supply, but like we, we haven't seen anything yet. Like it's, you know, it's, it's

1080
01:14:27,532 --> 01:14:31,933
going to, it's going parabolic, right? I'm curious too. So you mentioned the operating business

1081
01:14:31,933 --> 01:14:35,933
versus kind of the pure play. Do you think that operating business becomes even more important

1082
01:14:35,933 --> 01:14:41,273
in a, okay. Yes. For your cycles, you're saying like maybe dead, but Bitcoin is still going to

1083
01:14:41,273 --> 01:14:45,232
have drawbacks, right? We, we, we know that's the case. Maybe they're not extended bear market

1084
01:14:45,232 --> 01:14:50,592
winters like we've had in the past, but of course, Bitcoin will, will, will take a dip and that dip

1085
01:14:50,592 --> 01:14:55,512
may last for longer than people would like. Does that operating business become kind of, uh,

1086
01:14:55,692 --> 01:14:59,712
especially important during those times? Cause then you have, you have cashflow to fall back on.

1087
01:14:59,873 --> 01:15:04,433
You're able to take advantage of those, you know, you can, you can maybe, uh, invest in more Bitcoin

1088
01:15:04,433 --> 01:15:08,692
without needing to, you know, uh, further dilute or things like that. How do you see that?

1089
01:15:09,212 --> 01:15:13,373
No, absolutely. I mean, I think it's going to be exponentially more important. I think, you know,

1090
01:15:13,373 --> 01:15:17,672
there's exceptions to this, um, strategy is certainly one. I think, you know, they have a

1091
01:15:17,672 --> 01:15:23,292
level of like escape velocity where they're going to be able to survive any downturn really. Like

1092
01:15:23,292 --> 01:15:28,373
I think they can survive that 80 or 90% drawdown from here. Metaplanet is another one. I think they

1093
01:15:28,373 --> 01:15:33,172
have a level of escape velocity where it's like they're good, they're chilling. There's a couple

1094
01:15:33,172 --> 01:15:40,333
others that I think are going to be able to survive the bear market or even an intense

1095
01:15:40,333 --> 01:15:46,393
drawback just based on raising more capital and kind of living off of their Bitcoin.

1096
01:15:47,672 --> 01:15:51,292
Um, but not every company is going to make it, unfortunately.

1097
01:15:51,292 --> 01:15:59,072
And I hate to say that there's, there's pure play companies that are, um, probably going

1098
01:15:59,072 --> 01:16:00,632
to get acquired by the bigger companies.

1099
01:16:00,632 --> 01:16:05,232
I think that's, that's going to be part of the sort of this next cycle where, um, companies

1100
01:16:05,232 --> 01:16:08,452
that get over leveraged or don't, don't deploy capital responsibly.

1101
01:16:09,192 --> 01:16:13,813
Um, they're going to, uh, not be able to survive if there, if there is a big, a big

1102
01:16:13,813 --> 01:16:19,012
drawdown. And I don't think that's going to be catastrophic for the Bitcoin industry. Like a lot

1103
01:16:19,012 --> 01:16:24,612
of people think like this is the next Terra Luna or whatever the FUD is. But I just don't think

1104
01:16:24,612 --> 01:16:27,893
that's the case at all. I think it's if anything, it's just they're just going to be M&A opportunities

1105
01:16:27,893 --> 01:16:35,112
for a sailor to be like, okay, well, I can buy your company and your balance sheet for pennies

1106
01:16:35,112 --> 01:16:40,873
on the dollar. I'm going to do that. And, you know, Bitcoin's going to Bitcoin's going to be

1107
01:16:40,873 --> 01:16:48,092
fine. So even the worst kind of case scenario that people can draw up isn't really that bad

1108
01:16:48,092 --> 01:16:55,333
because of the companies that already exist in the space that are kind of like a little bit of

1109
01:16:55,333 --> 01:17:02,512
a backbone for sort of this treasury strategy. So yeah, there's a lot to be excited about. I'm

1110
01:17:02,512 --> 01:17:10,092
obviously, you know, more on the bullish side, very optimistic. You know, I just, I think though,

1111
01:17:10,092 --> 01:17:14,612
So regardless, we're going back to the basics where you have to be able to make money.

1112
01:17:14,712 --> 01:17:15,913
You have to be able to produce value.

1113
01:17:16,232 --> 01:17:18,132
You have to have a product or service that people want.

1114
01:17:18,752 --> 01:17:21,433
And ultimately, that's going to be the thing that helps you survive.

1115
01:17:22,252 --> 01:17:24,132
Not just survive, but thrive.

1116
01:17:24,373 --> 01:17:29,333
Like if your goal is to continue to accumulate Bitcoin, like the best way to do that is to

1117
01:17:29,333 --> 01:17:35,132
make money and use your own revenue to acquire more Bitcoin.

1118
01:17:35,373 --> 01:17:38,313
So yeah, I think we're going to see different dynamics.

1119
01:17:38,313 --> 01:17:50,612
I think the market right now has Bitcoin companies priced in not really the most accurate ways in some cases, especially when it comes to these companies that have operating businesses.

1120
01:17:50,752 --> 01:17:54,632
They're almost being penalized by the market, which is interesting, right?

1121
01:17:54,973 --> 01:17:55,452
It's weird.

1122
01:17:55,833 --> 01:17:56,433
It's weird.

1123
01:17:56,752 --> 01:17:56,873
Yeah.

1124
01:17:56,873 --> 01:18:00,313
I mean, like Semler is one that I think about there.

1125
01:18:00,313 --> 01:18:06,612
where like you know and uh similar has been pretty pretty forward thinking in terms of having a big

1126
01:18:06,612 --> 01:18:10,532
operating business and a successful business but realizing they're somewhat of a you know a quote

1127
01:18:10,532 --> 01:18:16,692
zombie company um you know and and they've made the switch and like yeah it's it is strange it

1128
01:18:16,692 --> 01:18:20,212
seems that people i mean right now they're all kind of getting as we were you know record this

1129
01:18:20,212 --> 01:18:25,152
september 2nd they're all kind of getting hammered uh as bitcoin has you know because bitcoin died i

1130
01:18:25,152 --> 01:18:30,172
don't know if you heard but it crashed down to like you know 108 000 infinitely printable petro

1131
01:18:30,172 --> 01:18:35,873
dollar cuck bucks per coin it's really it's sad to see it die like this um so i think people are

1132
01:18:35,873 --> 01:18:40,152
people are understandably skeptical of this i would also you know i whenever i have these

1133
01:18:40,152 --> 01:18:44,893
conversations about bitcoin treasury companies which is a lot lately because it comes up in some

1134
01:18:44,893 --> 01:18:48,492
way shape or form i like to remind people like for the average person like you should just

1135
01:18:48,492 --> 01:18:54,572
buy bitcoin accumulate a large enough utxo transfer it to cold storage live your life like

1136
01:18:54,572 --> 01:18:58,052
Like, you know, like these are certainly not for everyone.

1137
01:18:58,792 --> 01:19:00,813
And you're probably not a good trader.

1138
01:19:00,952 --> 01:19:01,652
I know I'm not.

1139
01:19:01,652 --> 01:19:10,032
You know, and so like buy Bitcoin, put it in cold storage, live your life, you know, save the value, time, energy in Bitcoin.

1140
01:19:10,252 --> 01:19:10,452
Great.

1141
01:19:10,672 --> 01:19:15,592
But like it is really important to talk about these things because I think they were inevitable on the one hand.

1142
01:19:15,672 --> 01:19:18,433
I think like nation state adoption is also inevitable.

1143
01:19:18,433 --> 01:19:24,873
if bitcoin was going to succeed which i believe it is succeeding then naturally every individual

1144
01:19:24,873 --> 01:19:30,273
every corporation every nation state is going to want it of course there's no situation where

1145
01:19:30,273 --> 01:19:34,913
bitcoin is winning but you know a corporation or nation state says no no thank you i don't want

1146
01:19:34,913 --> 01:19:39,333
any of that i don't want any of the best performing asset no thank you sir no it's just it's sorry

1147
01:19:39,333 --> 01:19:45,152
that's not realistic and so it's like it i think this is ultimately very positive for bitcoin uh

1148
01:19:45,152 --> 01:19:49,813
I do think that a lot of these, a lot of these companies, to your point,

1149
01:19:49,873 --> 01:19:52,913
I think you're exactly right with the thesis about acquisitions during

1150
01:19:52,913 --> 01:19:53,632
drawdowns.

1151
01:19:54,112 --> 01:19:58,732
I think this is a winner take or a couple of winners take most couple of

1152
01:19:58,732 --> 01:20:02,773
winners take all like size matters in this sailor.

1153
01:20:02,852 --> 01:20:05,552
Obviously he's got the size, right? You know, like he is, he is the,

1154
01:20:05,652 --> 01:20:07,773
so I don't think anyone's catching him.

1155
01:20:08,032 --> 01:20:11,292
Like he's got more Bitcoin than most countries combined.

1156
01:20:11,292 --> 01:20:12,893
Like I don't, so I don't think that's happening.

1157
01:20:12,893 --> 01:20:16,712
Metaplanet has been acquiring massive amounts, super impressive.

1158
01:20:17,592 --> 01:20:21,313
Then there's kind of like a, you know, there's, there's a race you've,

1159
01:20:21,313 --> 01:20:25,072
you've got, you've got Nakamoto, you've got 20, you know, 21 with,

1160
01:20:25,112 --> 01:20:28,292
with Mallers, you've got a few, you've got similar, a few of these others.

1161
01:20:28,433 --> 01:20:31,933
Then you've got like a very long tail of like very small ones.

1162
01:20:31,933 --> 01:20:34,852
And I think, I mean, it will be interesting to like,

1163
01:20:34,873 --> 01:20:37,132
if Bitcoin doesn't go through a protracted bear market,

1164
01:20:37,333 --> 01:20:39,552
is it just going to come down to like,

1165
01:20:39,773 --> 01:20:41,592
some of these companies are going to be managed poorly.

1166
01:20:41,992 --> 01:20:43,413
They're not going to execute the right strategy.

1167
01:20:44,072 --> 01:20:47,032
And that's like it won't be the bear market that destroys them.

1168
01:20:47,092 --> 01:20:51,413
It'll just be kind of a bad implementation of these Bitcoin treasury strategies.

1169
01:20:51,492 --> 01:20:57,652
Is that kind of where you're at given the assumption that if the four-year cycle is dead, then is that necessarily true?

1170
01:20:58,992 --> 01:20:59,393
Yeah, yeah.

1171
01:20:59,473 --> 01:21:01,333
I mean I think execution matters.

1172
01:21:01,473 --> 01:21:02,592
The team that you have matters.

1173
01:21:02,913 --> 01:21:07,032
How you deploy capital, all of it is critically important.

1174
01:21:07,032 --> 01:21:09,913
And I think that, again, some companies aren't going to make it.

1175
01:21:09,913 --> 01:21:18,352
and it's going to be fine for Bitcoin, but it's going to be tragic for a lot of people.

1176
01:21:18,512 --> 01:21:24,192
And so I agree with you, like buy Bitcoin, put it in cold storage. This is in a lot of ways

1177
01:21:24,192 --> 01:21:30,172
on the retail side, this is still kind of a degen play. This is like, I feel like we got through

1178
01:21:30,172 --> 01:21:35,152
like the meme coin cycle. And now a lot of capital is like, what else can I gamble on?

1179
01:21:35,152 --> 01:22:01,552
What else can I speculate on? And, you know, Bitcoin treasury companies for retail is a very speculative play. So like, I don't think it's for everyone. You know, I think if you think back to sort of how this all started, Saylor's original thesis for kind of what was going to be his like major unlock was attracting pools of capital from different parts of the market that didn't have access to Bitcoin.

1180
01:22:01,552 --> 01:22:06,373
So his original thesis wasn't even like retail is going to be what makes this thing happen.

1181
01:22:07,052 --> 01:22:16,072
It was like fixed income markets and equity markets and like giving exposure to Bitcoin to pools of capital that just couldn't buy spot Bitcoin.

1182
01:22:16,732 --> 01:22:19,433
And so that's important to kind of keep in mind.

1183
01:22:19,732 --> 01:22:27,632
I think that's the companies that can do that well in their respective markets, unlock capital that doesn't have access to Bitcoin.

1184
01:22:27,632 --> 01:22:30,952
Those are the ones that are going to succeed if they keep that kind of the main thesis.

1185
01:22:31,552 --> 01:22:40,512
The ones that are more kind of like focused on trying to get retail hype and sort of meme their way into, you know, getting their stock to go up.

1186
01:22:41,292 --> 01:22:45,393
But if that's the strategy, like I just I think that's a little bit less sustainable.

1187
01:22:46,273 --> 01:22:51,192
And again, if you get over leveraged, if you if you do this irresponsibly, like you're going to have a hard time.

1188
01:22:51,192 --> 01:22:53,813
So there is a right way to do this.

1189
01:22:53,833 --> 01:23:00,152
And there is a there is a way that's that's very speculative and may or may not work out depending on a lot of different factors.

1190
01:23:00,152 --> 01:23:12,112
And so I would encourage people to be very cautious with kind of how they're using their own funds and recognize that this is a speculative – this is a very speculative play and be careful.

1191
01:23:13,692 --> 01:23:14,172
Amen.

1192
01:23:14,512 --> 01:23:19,492
And it is interesting what you mentioned, kind of like the relying on this community for some of these moments.

1193
01:23:19,873 --> 01:23:25,732
It is like the same sort of narratives that you saw during like the – you see with meme coins and NFTs.

1194
01:23:25,913 --> 01:23:28,192
Like, well, it's no longer about utility.

1195
01:23:28,192 --> 01:23:29,852
It's just like, well, we've got the best community.

1196
01:23:29,852 --> 01:23:33,152
Our community is so, you know, and it's like, I'm not, I'm not saying they're the same thing.

1197
01:23:33,152 --> 01:23:38,433
Cause they're not like one is fundamentally, I think like polls, a meme coin, shit coins

1198
01:23:38,433 --> 01:23:40,132
across the board, NFTs, whatever it is.

1199
01:23:40,952 --> 01:23:46,252
They are taking capital that would otherwise flow into Bitcoin and they're putting it into

1200
01:23:46,252 --> 01:23:48,473
this garbage and enriching a small group of founders.

1201
01:23:48,732 --> 01:23:49,132
Right.

1202
01:23:49,813 --> 01:23:53,393
With Bitcoin treasury companies, the capital still ultimately flows to Bitcoin.

1203
01:23:53,512 --> 01:23:55,132
It just flows through a proxy vehicle.

1204
01:23:55,132 --> 01:23:55,492
Right.

1205
01:23:55,532 --> 01:23:58,112
And so like, ultimately that is accretive to Bitcoin.

1206
01:23:58,112 --> 01:23:59,373
I think that is good for Bitcoin.

1207
01:23:59,852 --> 01:24:04,632
But again, that being said, like, be very careful out there, folks.

1208
01:24:04,752 --> 01:24:08,732
Like, there is no substitute for Bitcoin held in cold storage.

1209
01:24:09,052 --> 01:24:13,552
You, like, you know, most of the benefits are lost if a trusted third party is still required.

1210
01:24:13,652 --> 01:24:19,352
So, like, but, like, you should know that if you're buying Bitcoin treasury companies, you're not buying a claim on Bitcoin.

1211
01:24:19,913 --> 01:24:19,973
Right.

1212
01:24:20,232 --> 01:24:21,672
You're buying a security.

1213
01:24:22,012 --> 01:24:22,893
You're buying equity.

1214
01:24:23,072 --> 01:24:24,252
Like, that is different.

1215
01:24:24,352 --> 01:24:26,373
You have no rights to any of the Bitcoin that they have.

1216
01:24:26,413 --> 01:24:27,652
That's not how it works.

1217
01:24:28,112 --> 01:24:28,313
Right.

1218
01:24:28,313 --> 01:24:32,393
So, you know, if you want actual Bitcoin, buy actual Bitcoin.

1219
01:24:32,792 --> 01:24:35,433
And if you want to speculate, speculate.

1220
01:24:35,592 --> 01:24:36,313
Nobody's going to stop you.

1221
01:24:36,352 --> 01:24:38,552
Do whatever you want with your money, but just be conscious of that.

1222
01:24:39,652 --> 01:24:43,893
It's, you know, buyer beware, but like, yeah, a lot of people are going to get fabulously

1223
01:24:43,893 --> 01:24:44,952
wealthy at the same time.

1224
01:24:45,752 --> 01:24:46,072
100%.

1225
01:24:46,072 --> 01:24:47,052
And I love what you just said.

1226
01:24:47,072 --> 01:24:48,152
I think it's such an important distinction.

1227
01:24:48,252 --> 01:24:52,273
It's like, I think the companies that are doing this that are focused on accumulating

1228
01:24:52,273 --> 01:24:56,052
as much Bitcoin as possible, and they're not really, it's not like they don't care about

1229
01:24:56,052 --> 01:24:56,473
their stock.

1230
01:24:56,473 --> 01:25:00,433
Obviously, they want their stock to go up and they want to create shareholder value.

1231
01:25:01,112 --> 01:25:06,913
But if they keep the main thing about actually, you know, acquiring Bitcoin and having an

1232
01:25:06,913 --> 01:25:14,752
creative strategy and not focusing so much on kind of the like meme aspect of this, those

1233
01:25:14,752 --> 01:25:18,192
are going to be the winners because they recognize that like this is it.

1234
01:25:18,292 --> 01:25:22,532
We are in the digital gold rush and the name of the game is to acquire as much Bitcoin as

1235
01:25:22,532 --> 01:25:24,072
you can as responsibly as you can.

1236
01:25:24,072 --> 01:25:27,712
and there are going to be factors beyond your control. And stock price is certainly one of them,

1237
01:25:27,792 --> 01:25:32,473
but on a long enough time horizon, like, you know, right now, again, we're seeing all these

1238
01:25:32,473 --> 01:25:39,712
companies kind of a pullback in their stock price, but dude, the ones that are still stacking hard,

1239
01:25:39,712 --> 01:25:43,172
um, and, and kind of just like keeping their head down, executing the strategy,

1240
01:25:43,172 --> 01:25:46,292
they're going to win. Like we know that they're going to win because they have,

1241
01:25:46,292 --> 01:25:50,373
yeah, they're increasing their Bitcoin on their balance sheet. Um, and so, yeah,

1242
01:25:50,473 --> 01:25:53,952
keeping the main thing, the main thing and, and recognizing that, you know, if you're buying

1243
01:25:53,952 --> 01:26:02,492
retail stocks, then, you know, you're speculating, then there's a lot of value to be created and

1244
01:26:02,492 --> 01:26:07,773
there can be a lot of winners. So it's an exciting time. It's a precarious time in a lot of ways.

1245
01:26:08,552 --> 01:26:14,552
But yeah, this is what we signed up for. This is, like you said, when corporations got wise to the

1246
01:26:14,552 --> 01:26:20,012
fact that, oh, this is a race. There's only so many of these things. And I can just tell you,

1247
01:26:20,012 --> 01:26:24,512
based on the conversations we're having, like, this is not going anywhere. And in a lot of ways,

1248
01:26:24,512 --> 01:26:28,612
we're just getting started. Like the, the, the pipeline that we have, the number of like the

1249
01:26:28,612 --> 01:26:33,433
inbound that we have is overwhelming. It's crazy. Um, and so I don't, I don't see it slowing down

1250
01:26:33,433 --> 01:26:39,992
anytime soon. What's, uh, what's your take on, okay. So we've got like Bitcoin treasure companies,

1251
01:26:40,072 --> 01:26:43,893
we've got pure plays, we've got Bitcoin treasure companies with an operating business. Then we've

1252
01:26:43,893 --> 01:26:49,672
got Bitcoin companies that also have a Bitcoin treasury, like fold comes to mind as one. And

1253
01:26:49,672 --> 01:26:51,873
That is a publicly traded company, right?

1254
01:26:51,952 --> 01:26:54,512
You know, they don't have the biggest treasure, but they've got a pretty darn good one.

1255
01:26:54,612 --> 01:26:56,313
They're actually like, you know, they're hardcore Bitcoiners.

1256
01:26:56,352 --> 01:26:57,012
They're a Bitcoin company.

1257
01:26:58,152 --> 01:27:04,092
And then you've got Bitcoin miners who, in many cases, like some of them have raised capital to buy Bitcoin.

1258
01:27:04,092 --> 01:27:06,873
But also a lot of them, obviously, they mine Bitcoin.

1259
01:27:07,192 --> 01:27:09,512
Like that's what they're in the business of doing.

1260
01:27:09,712 --> 01:27:11,813
So they have accumulated treasuries through that.

1261
01:27:11,813 --> 01:27:17,232
how how do you view that dynamic of bitcoin companies with bitcoin treasuries

1262
01:27:17,232 --> 01:27:26,012
bitcoin miners with bitcoin treasuries you know like is that an even better play that's ultimately

1263
01:27:26,012 --> 01:27:30,973
i've noticed recently because i do follow this stuff and i've i have you know small uh small

1264
01:27:30,973 --> 01:27:34,413
stakes in you know some of these companies miners and a couple of the treasury companies i have some

1265
01:27:34,413 --> 01:27:39,413
strategy full disclosure uh again i recommend everybody just get cold storage bitcoin that is

1266
01:27:39,413 --> 01:27:45,252
all I will ever recommend. But it seems that miners have been actually doing pretty well lately,

1267
01:27:45,252 --> 01:27:50,712
even amidst this, this drawdown, this tiny little drawdown. But how do you view this playing out?

1268
01:27:50,833 --> 01:27:54,952
Like, do, does there one of these categories that outperforms? We've already said, okay,

1269
01:27:54,952 --> 01:28:00,112
the pure play is having a moment, but like, can it last? Operating business is good. But what

1270
01:28:00,112 --> 01:28:05,352
about a Bitcoin operating business or a Bitcoin mining operating business? Is that inherently

1271
01:28:05,352 --> 01:28:11,373
better for long term. Yeah, I definitely see a scenario where it could be like fold is a great

1272
01:28:11,373 --> 01:28:15,092
example. It's one of my one of my favorite companies full disclosure. I've had been a

1273
01:28:15,092 --> 01:28:20,692
fold cardholder, you know, since they rolled out the card. And I think that, you know, they're I

1274
01:28:20,692 --> 01:28:26,552
mean, I think the top top 20 Bitcoin treasuries. But you're right, they're focused on their

1275
01:28:26,552 --> 01:28:31,552
operating business. And it's a little bit tragic that you know, the market doesn't isn't rewarding

1276
01:28:31,552 --> 01:28:37,592
that right now. But I think that long term, you know, again, they got their head down,

1277
01:28:37,652 --> 01:28:40,592
they're building a good product, they're creating value, they're creating revenue,

1278
01:28:40,592 --> 01:28:45,393
and they're buying Bitcoin with, you know, their excess cash. So like, I think eventually the

1279
01:28:45,393 --> 01:28:50,632
market will reward that. Again, I think the market right now is kind of distracted by the shiny

1280
01:28:50,632 --> 01:28:57,833
object, which is the pure plays. And MNAV, and you know, I think we overhype MNAV a little bit,

1281
01:28:57,833 --> 01:29:03,052
I get it. It's a valuable metric, but like, let's just chill with thinking it's everything.

1282
01:29:04,873 --> 01:29:09,513
And then you got miners and that's a whole different beast. You know, I think again,

1283
01:29:09,513 --> 01:29:15,992
the market is, is pricing in just like the overhead risk primarily. And they're looking at

1284
01:29:15,992 --> 01:29:20,052
how quickly can you accumulate Bitcoin? Okay, cool. You got this whole mining operation,

1285
01:29:20,232 --> 01:29:24,893
whatever. And that's another thing that I think is just like not going to be

1286
01:29:24,893 --> 01:29:30,433
the case for very long. I think people are going to look at, you know, Mara that has, I think,

1287
01:29:30,433 --> 01:29:34,333
I think they're number two, if I'm not mistaken, 50,000 Bitcoin on their balance sheet.

1288
01:29:35,473 --> 01:29:40,273
You know, the mining industry right now is a little bit in an interesting spot because I think

1289
01:29:40,273 --> 01:29:45,833
a lot of these public miners, especially got over levered in a different way. They got over levered

1290
01:29:45,833 --> 01:29:50,632
with, with, you know, too many machines. I mean, a lot of them, a lot of these, a lot of these

1291
01:29:50,632 --> 01:29:55,212
mining companies have machines that they don't have plugged in, right? Because that was what was

1292
01:29:55,212 --> 01:30:00,112
being demanded essentially of the market is like increase, you know, your hash rate.

1293
01:30:01,373 --> 01:30:07,072
And I think that period is kind of starting to subside. And so miners are having to correct. And

1294
01:30:07,072 --> 01:30:12,852
now the dynamic that you have right now in the mining industry is that the new machines aren't

1295
01:30:12,852 --> 01:30:17,072
really that much better than the previous generation machines. And so what we've seen in

1296
01:30:17,072 --> 01:30:21,032
the past is like the four, around the time, the four year cycle was starting to hype up.

1297
01:30:21,152 --> 01:30:26,473
You would be able to deploy these new machines that were way outperforming the previous generations,

1298
01:30:26,712 --> 01:30:32,273
uh, um, ASICs. Now that's not the case. And so it's like, all right, uh, I guess we'll just keep

1299
01:30:32,273 --> 01:30:34,873
mining these other machines so that we don't have to, you know, buy these other machines.

1300
01:30:35,112 --> 01:30:41,032
And so you have this oversupply of ASICs. And, uh, so the ASIC distributors aren't, you know,

1301
01:30:41,032 --> 01:30:45,833
aren't making money. And so there's all these like unique dynamics in, in mining that are,

1302
01:30:45,833 --> 01:30:50,393
that are happening during this particular cycle. Um, and there's a lot of things that are, that,

1303
01:30:50,473 --> 01:30:55,172
you know, are on the horizon that are exciting. I think, um, I think proto is one, um, you know,

1304
01:30:55,212 --> 01:31:01,393
squares new, new minor. I don't know if you've seen this, but, um, it's super cool, ridiculous

1305
01:31:01,393 --> 01:31:06,473
specs on, on this machine. Like if they can get this, this thing up and running and deployed,

1306
01:31:06,473 --> 01:31:11,492
like, I think that could actually change the, the, the mining industry, um, in a, in a very

1307
01:31:11,492 --> 01:31:16,473
positive way. So yeah, it's hard to say what's going to happen with the public miners. A lot of

1308
01:31:16,473 --> 01:31:21,933
them are like in the top 10, top 20 of Bitcoin holders, but they don't necessarily run an

1309
01:31:21,933 --> 01:31:25,992
accretive strategy. And so they're not really kind of participating in this current like hype cycle

1310
01:31:25,992 --> 01:31:29,852
of Bitcoin treasury companies. A lot of them are considering pivots. Like how do we do this? How

1311
01:31:29,852 --> 01:31:35,292
do we actually become a Bitcoin treasury company and increase our MNAV and do all that?

1312
01:31:35,292 --> 01:31:38,692
everyone's kind of scrambling to keep up with this narrative.

1313
01:31:39,513 --> 01:31:42,592
I don't think any company, even outside of the industry,

1314
01:31:42,592 --> 01:31:46,172
is exempt from having to evaluate like, okay, what are we going to do about this?

1315
01:31:46,212 --> 01:31:47,072
How are we going to address this?

1316
01:31:47,273 --> 01:31:48,132
How are we going to get involved?

1317
01:31:48,292 --> 01:31:50,492
And so I think what we're going to see over the next six months

1318
01:31:50,492 --> 01:31:54,132
is a lot of companies pivoting to kind of do this,

1319
01:31:54,492 --> 01:32:00,052
a lot of companies recognizing that they need to participate in this digital gold rush.

1320
01:32:00,052 --> 01:32:02,273
and yeah

1321
01:32:02,273 --> 01:32:05,052
it's hard to predict who the winners and losers

1322
01:32:05,052 --> 01:32:06,692
are going to be but like you said earlier

1323
01:32:06,692 --> 01:32:08,313
I think there's going to be a couple breakouts

1324
01:32:08,313 --> 01:32:08,552
and

1325
01:32:08,552 --> 01:32:12,333
yeah it's going to be

1326
01:32:12,333 --> 01:32:14,052
a wild run man

1327
01:32:14,052 --> 01:32:16,792
What a time to be alive right

1328
01:32:16,792 --> 01:32:18,532
and yeah you were correct Mara

1329
01:32:18,532 --> 01:32:20,952
is number two just over

1330
01:32:20,952 --> 01:32:22,352
50,000 coins

1331
01:32:22,352 --> 01:32:24,612
and then Riot number seven

1332
01:32:24,612 --> 01:32:26,572
with a little over 19,000

1333
01:32:26,572 --> 01:32:28,333
you got CleanSpark as well

1334
01:32:28,333 --> 01:32:36,592
clean spark with uh almost 13 000 wow it's interesting coinbase cracked uh after losing

1335
01:32:36,592 --> 01:32:45,852
the top 10 spot they're back in at number 10 with 11 776 coins so even uh even the the shit coin

1336
01:32:45,852 --> 01:32:52,172
salesmen finally capitulate and start stacking uh bitcoin again what a shocker well yeah it's gonna

1337
01:32:52,172 --> 01:32:56,412
it's gonna be it's gonna be wild to see it play out it's amazing to be alive at this moment in

1338
01:32:56,412 --> 01:33:00,273
time as we see this because I think we are like we are undeniably so early we're so early to

1339
01:33:00,273 --> 01:33:03,933
bitcoin we're so early to treasury strategies we're so early to all of this like we get to be

1340
01:33:03,933 --> 01:33:09,032
here for it like what an amazing thing it's gonna be a different world that uh that our children get

1341
01:33:09,032 --> 01:33:15,572
to experience so hopefully a better one no doubt that's a role we have a role to play in that it's

1342
01:33:15,572 --> 01:33:21,732
not you know hope isn't a strategy I think we uh we can be active in in determining kind of how this

1343
01:33:21,732 --> 01:33:26,252
how this thing plays out and like we talked about earlier it does kind of start with uh with phrasing

1344
01:33:26,252 --> 01:33:28,752
raising children intentionally full circle.

1345
01:33:29,513 --> 01:33:29,873
Yeah.

1346
01:33:29,973 --> 01:33:30,452
I love it,

1347
01:33:30,513 --> 01:33:30,612
man.

1348
01:33:30,752 --> 01:33:31,252
But George,

1349
01:33:31,252 --> 01:33:32,852
this was a great to have you on.

1350
01:33:33,212 --> 01:33:34,393
I love the conversation.

1351
01:33:34,492 --> 01:33:36,632
I think folks are going to get a lot out of it.

1352
01:33:36,973 --> 01:33:38,032
And there's a,

1353
01:33:38,112 --> 01:33:38,893
there's something here for the,

1354
01:33:38,952 --> 01:33:41,373
for the dads and the Bitcoin treasury D gens.

1355
01:33:41,652 --> 01:33:42,492
So I got a little,

1356
01:33:42,572 --> 01:33:43,352
a little bit for everyone,

1357
01:33:43,452 --> 01:33:45,112
but I appreciate you coming on.

1358
01:33:45,292 --> 01:33:46,532
Where do you want to send folks again,

1359
01:33:46,532 --> 01:33:48,232
just in case they missed it the first time around.

1360
01:33:48,912 --> 01:33:49,572
So yeah,

1361
01:33:49,592 --> 01:33:51,492
you can find me on X.

1362
01:33:51,572 --> 01:33:53,752
I'm going to be more active on Noster after this conversation.

1363
01:33:53,752 --> 01:33:54,052
Yes.

1364
01:33:54,172 --> 01:33:54,752
That is my goal.

1365
01:33:54,752 --> 01:34:02,152
so um but yeah i'm on uh exit g mikhail and then um you know check out the book i am not your bruh

1366
01:34:02,152 --> 01:34:06,112
it's kind of hard to find on amazon you can't just you have to type in i am not your bruh book

1367
01:34:06,112 --> 01:34:10,532
that's how you find it uh go to go to the bitcoin magazine store and you can find it there as well

1368
01:34:10,532 --> 01:34:15,833
awesome well jord thanks for coming on here uh appreciate it we'll have to and i'll i'll hit you

1369
01:34:15,833 --> 01:34:21,112
up about maybe we maybe we spin spin off a dad's pot bitcoin dad's podcast i'm into it as well but

1370
01:34:21,112 --> 01:34:24,652
Appreciate your time and I look forward to seeing you in the flesh again soon.

1371
01:34:24,992 --> 01:34:25,333
All right.

1372
01:34:25,412 --> 01:34:25,792
Cheers, man.

1373
01:34:25,852 --> 01:34:26,212
Thank you.

1374
01:34:33,212 --> 01:34:37,933
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin talk episode of the Bitcoin podcast.

1375
01:34:38,433 --> 01:34:46,833
Remember to subscribe to this podcast, wherever you're watching or listening and share it with your friends, family and strangers on the Internet.

1376
01:34:46,833 --> 01:34:53,532
Find me on Noster at primal.net slash Walker and this podcast at primal.net slash Titcoin.

1377
01:34:54,072 --> 01:35:01,933
On X, YouTube, and Rumble, just search at Walker America and find this podcast on X and Instagram at Titcoin Podcast.

1378
01:35:02,672 --> 01:35:04,933
Head to the show notes to grab sponsor links.

1379
01:35:05,032 --> 01:35:09,732
Head to substack.com slash at Walker America to get episodes emailed to you.

1380
01:35:10,092 --> 01:35:13,532
And head to bitcoinpodcast.net for everything else.

1381
01:35:13,532 --> 01:35:17,652
Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant.

1382
01:35:18,232 --> 01:35:22,992
So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to The Bitcoin Podcast.

1383
01:35:23,873 --> 01:35:26,313
Until next time, stay free.