If you go on Twitter today, you will see a lot of people yelling about different things.
And most of them are solutions to problems that do not exist.
A lot of the development that I've seen come out of African nations
are solutions to problems I didn't know exist.
And that's the key difference.
I challenge everyone listening like just in every aspect, but Bitcoin too,
like change your viewpoint, get out of your bubble,
try to experience what other people are experiencing and see why they do what they do.
Greetings and salutations, my fellow plebs.
My name is Walker, and this is the Bitcoin podcast.
The Bitcoin block height is 832015.
And the value of one Bitcoin is still one Bitcoin.
Today's episode is Bitcoin talk, where I talk with my guest about Bitcoin and whatever else comes up.
Today, that guest is Tatum Turnup.
Tatum is a Bitcoin entertainer hosting the hilarious show between two A6.
But he's also a Bitcoin miner and educator.
So our conversation ranges all over the place.
We had a lot of fun with it, and I think you'll really enjoy this conversation.
You can find all of Tatum's links in the show notes.
I highly recommend you give him a follow on Noster, Twitter and YouTube.
A quick public service announcement before we get going,
because the Bitcoin halving is less than 8000 blocks away.
So now is a great time to get your Bitcoin off exchanges and into your own self-custody.
Head to bitbox.swiss.
Slash Walker and use promo code Walker for 5% off the Bitcoin only
Bitbox O2 hardware wallet. This wallet is easy as hell to use.
It is fully open source Bitcoin only.
And if you don't trust me about the open source, go to their GitHub and verify it for yourself.
When you go to bitbox.swiss slash Walker and use the promo code Walker,
not only do you get 5% off, but you also help support another fucking Bitcoin podcast.
This one. So thank you.
As always, you can watch the video version of this show on rumble, YouTube or X by searching at Walker America
or listen on fountain.fm or wherever you get your podcast by searching for the Bitcoin podcast.
And if you listen to this show on fountain, which I recommend, consider giving this show a boost
or creating a clip of something you found valuable.
Finally, if you are a Bitcoin only company interested in sponsoring another fucking Bitcoin podcast,
hit me up on social media or through the website, Bitcoin podcast.net.
Without further ado, let's get into this Bitcoin talk with Tatum turnip.
It's real now. We're doing it live. Hey, what's up?
I'm going to drink on your behalf. Just so you know, I appreciate that.
It's a once I get off work, I'm going to delete several beers.
I like that deleting beers. Yeah, I usually just drink them, but I guess it kind of deleting them from existence is also a fair characterization.
Yeah, it's a maybe it's been a week, but it's Friday.
I'm living life. I'm living large, large in charge.
Imagine being like a part of like any aristocracy back in the day where like,
like what like at what point was the term weekend invented?
You know, because like if you didn't actually work, if you're a member of the landed gentry or whatever they call them over in the UK,
like that's just I mean, it's just you're just living all the time.
Is role in the I. Yeah. Yeah. Must have been nice.
I've always I've always had issues with the calendar.
Think it's stupid and time in general. I'm at UTC maxi.
I like time zones like the fact that if we just went on a lunar calendar,
we wouldn't have to have fucking February with its stupid 28 or 29 days.
Like I I understand that since it and agree.
However, I do celebrate Leap Day every four years because it's one of those things
and only comes around before you same thing with the Olympics, you know, it's it's.
But honestly, there should be more fanfare with Leap Day.
Like it should be the same as the Olympics, basically.
Yeah, I mean, like.
Why are we not having Leap Day grades?
I know what I'm going to do next four years and four years because don't have time to plan now.
But I promise you, dude, I want to make it.
I want to have a conference like I want to make my own Bitcoin conference
and I want to make sure that it lines up on Leap Year on Leap Day.
And then it's only going to be an every four year conference to so let's see 24 28.
Wait a minute, so leap years also coincide with having because we have a leap year this year, right?
Like this we have 29 days.
Way whoa.
Did we just discover is this another?
Is this a purposeful Satoshi thing?
Or are we just ascribing some meaning to it that does not exist?
Oh, man, dude, I've been having some fun with the Satoshi emails.
I've been in the lab.
Playing with HTML on Bitcoin talk dot org.
And like I think you saw the picture where I said that he's online.
I've had so many people is this real?
Like you idiot, you can go.
Oh, my don't just verify for like us for a solid like three milliseconds.
I was like what?
And then I was like, oh, wait, no, obviously, obviously not.
Also, look at his posting it to exactly like, dude,
that's the same with this this whole Dick Cuckerson thing, which I give you followed Carla and I for a while.
Like you would recognize him as a recurring character who works at douche bunk.
But it is it's honestly a little bit worrisome.
How many bit coiners like really thought it was dead?
Seriously, you guys, I'm not even trying to make the profile picture that different.
Like it's it's that's the thing.
I was like, I've seen I saw bit coiners under some of your posts.
I'm like they're like fighting and arguing you with you.
And I'm like, can you not see that that's Walker?
Like that that literally is just him earlier on with longer hair.
Like, dude, the fucking funniest part.
People would be like, God, that guy's just got a fucking punchable face.
Like wouldn't let him around my kids like all this stuff like looks like a fucking
Pato or Pito or whatever.
If you're from the UK, you say it weird.
And I'm just like, oh, well, that's just that.
OK, well, now you're not attacking Dick Cuckers in your attacking Walker.
That's just my face.
So that's a little bit a little bit hurtful.
But honestly, like we need I was inspired by one of my all time
favorite journalists, Bob Malacca's, because he's doing great.
You know, this real real great journalism.
He's doing with the best of them.
And so I figured, well, you know what, why not create a character?
And of course, Carla's first reaction was like, do you really need another Twitter account?
And I was like, yes.
So that I have too many now, though.
That's the problem.
I say quick question.
You hold down the home tab on Twitter.
How many pop up?
How many how many counts pop up?
Fuck man, a lot.
There's a lot.
Do you have to scroll?
I think so.
Yeah.
Yeah. Oh my God.
Walker.
Well, OK, to be fair, like there's there's Walker America there.
We still have the BTC couple, Carla and I, from when we were like trying to run
more less sarcastic and, you know, humorous side of things, but like that just
was too much work.
Right.
And then there's well, now there's Dick Cuckerson.
There's the Nostrich.
He's up there.
I forgot about Nostrich.
Yeah.
I forgot.
And why times up stop the presses.
That was one of the best campaigns ever.
Like the the rollout was perfect.
It had insane traction.
It like props.
I don't think I've ever given you proper props.
Like that was awesome.
And I was like, I know that guy.
So yeah, I mean, you were you had normies, dude.
You had people who never didn't know all the everything going on.
And I was like, it's happening.
There was a period of time where I was like, I got to take this movement
to Washington.
Like I've got to I've got to get up there in the capital and speak to this.
Give me a picket sign.
Yeah.
I mean, it was honestly that was another one where it was it was pretty amazing.
Like, I mean, good satire should be basically indistinguishable from just absurd reality.
And that's the thing like now it is genuinely so hard to tell.
But I feel like that stopped the presses thing with something where people were
like, oh, yeah, wait, it is kind of fucked that we just kill all these trees to
print newspapers that, you know, nobody really reads anyway.
Like why are we doing your delivery?
Your delivery was always so good because it was like.
It was snarky.
Basically, it wasn't like a let me refute your point.
It was like, oh, yeah, good point.
This is the standard like it was basically like a punch in the nuts.
Like, oh, damn, he did get us like, you know, for about probably 30 to 40
percent of those tweets, I would just exactly copy pasta, a change the code
tweet and just swap stuff out because I was like, you know, just to again
illustrate that these are really loose arguments that can be interchangeable
like with any industry.
So that honestly, that made the content creation a little bit easier,
but that's the problem.
Tatum is just time is scarce and, you know, it turns out I it is tough being
a one man, a bot farm, you know, not really bots.
I guess they're.
Oh, I'm logging this account like, yeah, those when you look at discount
like repose.
I saw I I love Bitcoin bugle like I actually do a great job.
I did not know of also the career Bitcoin bugle is also named Dick, Dick
Greaser, but I did not know they existed until someone sent me an article
about Orange Pill app as a dating app or something like that.
And I was like, why are you sending me this?
And I was looking through it and saw it said, host of between two a six
chaining Tatum says I'm on the app and forklift certified, but still single.
I don't get it.
And I was like, that's me and I met him in Vegas and I was like, so
you're the one that wrote change Tatum forklift certified.
He's like, yep, that was me.
My dog dude.
It's fantastic.
I honestly think like that first of all, like I enjoy satire very much.
I think if you don't, if you don't enjoy satire, either you don't get it,
which is fine, you know, it's sometimes goes above people's heads or you
just hate fun and like everything is so fucking serious these days.
Yeah.
Even when I mean, even when I post like tweets that are mostly serious,
I honestly just like to like everything I try to do is a little bit
tinted with satire.
Like I am not actually a person who likes to say, you know, breaking news,
but it's like, God damn it.
Everybody loves to put breaking in front of everything, even as they're tweeting
something from like two years ago and it's like, this isn't breaking at all.
So let's just fucking put breaking in front of all that breaking his church
changed meetings from this happened just now to I want you to engage with this post.
And yeah, like I capitalize on that all the time and say like, I'll put all caps
breaking and then put the most random, not even like news or anything like that.
Like breaking.
I have to take a shit or something like that.
It's just fine.
Like breaking.
At least there's stupidity.
Yeah, exactly.
Like, but again, a little dark, but like a couple days ago on Nostar,
someone posted about like men sometimes just need a bro to talk to and stuff.
And it was starting to talk about like men's mental health and I responded
to Hodel on something and I was like, how do I put it really well?
He just said like all these things that are fucking hard.
And I was like, men's mental health matters.
I went to town, suicide survivor.
I was like, dude, this is really dark.
I got a lightened up.
And so I said in parentheses, I know, right?
How did I fail twice?
I'm really bad.
Oh my God.
And I was and Derek was like, I don't know how to react to this,
but I'm glad you're here.
It was like, thanks, man.
I first of all, I have not seen that note of yours.
I'll have to go and check that out so that I can also feel uncomfortable
about how to react.
But as long as I get the point across.
Yeah, there we go.
No, I also that's something that's kind of wonderful about Nostar, right?
Is that you feel it is like all jokes aside, it is genuinely a space
where you can feel more comfortable just like letting out an inner monologue,
which is kind of nice.
Like, I don't know how long it's going to stay that way.
That's one thing that I'm like, hmm, I've given that thought like I've
I've thought about it.
There is a I've made a post about it at some point.
I really hope that is backed up on a real later.
So I really hope all my stuff is backed up because my relay that I my
personal backup relay kind of shit the bed a little bit.
But it said something like this profile is finite.
Like it there is going to be an end to it.
I don't know what is going to be that trigger, but there might be a day
where you know, you're going to see deleted account or something like that.
It's going to have everything wiped except for the notes.
Oh, because like what it is right now that input is literally it's my echo
chamber.
It's my just like diary.
It's it's if I have a thought it goes not sure.
Oh, but that that is going to change at some point.
I just don't know what the catalyst is going to be.
Yeah, I know it's you know, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
I guess because like right now that is the wonderful thing about
those two is like I feel like this is yeah.
And like and people genuinely don't feel like they there's no incentive to act
a certain way or to engage in a certain way or to farm engagement in a certain way.
I mean, there will be if they're you know, there are opt-in algorithms
that people can choose to check out.
But for the most part, it's like you are just incentivized to be you,
which is a beautiful fucking thing as opposed to Twitter where you're just
incentivized to troll and engagement bait because that's what that's
what gets out there.
But also one of my favorite things about it is that like when I'm when I'm
hosting on Twitter versus posting on Nostra.
On Nostra, my thumbs are flying on Twitter.
I'm reading and rereading to see if there's any of those trigger words
that might shadow band be or something like that.
Even like Bitcoin sometimes I'll tweet about Bitcoin and then not receive
a single like on a post for like three days.
I'm convinced that it's like a shadow band thing because it's not like I'm
I deserve so many likes, but it's different.
What caused that differentiation?
It's like I don't know what I can and can't talk about because I'm going
to go in the shadows and I would like to keep my account so I can continue
to grow to a to a six and in my brand and everything.
But also I'm walking on eggshells as I am posting on Twitter.
So it is one free switch.
Yeah.
What was his whole thing?
Freedom of speech, freedom of freedom of speech, not freedom of reach.
Like they they reserve the right to restrict reach.
And well, it's also like again, I still use Twitter all the time
because I still enjoy it and I like I get a lot of you know, news from
there and everything else.
Like it's a good aggregator.
It's great for search.
Nostra has been improving a lot search wise, just at least Primal
and and Domus both have.
But like there is just.
I don't know.
It ruins a little bit of the experience to know that there you have absolutely
no control like on Twitter, your tweets are not your tweets.
Like they could be wiped at any moment.
Your account is not your account.
It's somewhat pay to play because first of all, if you're not, you know,
if you haven't paid the eight dollars a month, you're not going to get,
you know, you're not going to get boosted.
And if you haven't paid eleven dollars, you won't get double boosted.
And if you haven't paid whatever twenty two dollars, you won't get triple
boosted.
And then if you're a if you're a verified organization now, you get like
guaranteed to X the reach.
And so if you're a member of a verified organization, you also get more reach.
So it's that it's so much hits.
Yeah.
So anybody that works for like anybody that's a Bitcoin or working for a
Bitcoin company where they have a verified corporate account and you know
that people with their little badge next to their next to their check mark,
they are getting increased reach because you're paying.
It's like pretty expensive.
I mean, not for a company, but like I think it's like some of the pricing
for some of that stuff is ridiculous because like I see I follow a few meme
accounts and like they've started to seem really.
Like when I followed them up, because like I like content now, it seems like
regurgitation of old content or like those like random only fan shills out
of nowhere.
And now they got in trouble.
So now they have ad on this.
Like, oh, yeah, no, everyone knew it's like, have you seen this drill video?
Like I followed for cat videos and what the hell is going on.
And now I started to see that they all have like company badges and I'm like.
What?
So now I'm imagining that they're probably paying some corporate organization
to be associated with them.
Usually it's like there's some PC company that has like ship those
gateway and a bunch of other meme accounts.
So they're just paying them, I guess, to get that badge to get boosted.
So they can also make ad revenue of only fans girls that say, Hey, makes it.
Here's a tweet.
Can you put it out?
I'm like, this is not like you're ruining this.
Stop.
It's a weird incentive structure.
And that's why it is kind of nice to at least that there are still bubbles with
like some of these echo chambers are kind of a good thing because you can you can
find signal within that echo chamber.
You know, Bitcoin Twitter is is still pretty wonderful.
And you know, the key is just make sure you're still following enough people
that are outside of that echo chamber, like, you know, follow the Paul Krugman's
of the world and some other highly regarded economists and make sure you branch
out from there.
And, you know, it's Twitter still has its place.
And also, like, I know a lot of people have gone noster only in like mad respect
for that.
I think there's still something to be said for trying to bring awareness
to Noster through the centralized platforms that you are also still using
if you have the reach on there.
Like it's amazing that Jack and Snowden both have noster in their Twitter bios.
Like it's right up there.
It's not Snowden has literally instructions like download, you know,
or use primal on web, use Domus for iOS, use, you know, like that's awesome.
That's like a combined, you know, 11 million followers or something.
And that's a pretty cool thing to see.
But yeah, I'm we're still very much in the early early adoption phase of noster,
but that's also what makes it so fucking fun, right?
Is it like it's just pretty raw and that's nice.
Some of my best friends I've met on Noster and never seen them anywhere
outside of this protocol and or in person, even like it's it's a weird
we're in weird times and I like staying weird.
Okay, look, I'm not everyone's like, oh, this is so 1984 about like, you
know, everything else going on in the world.
I was like, y'all have that.
I'm in 2077 over here, like just having my own fun.
2024 has been canceled.
We're all in different years and y'all have fun doing whatever.
I'm going to go do my own thing.
It's it's fucking cool.
Like the amount of like you see so much doom and gloom throughout,
you know, in the legacy news, obviously, you see so much doom and gloom
on just Twitter.
Generally, I don't go on Facebook anymore.
I'm not in years.
I don't know what it's like over there.
I assume just a lot of every time.
So I I deleted I deleted Facebook off my phone, but like I still use it like
maybe once a month, once every two months just to kind of catch up on some
of my friends every single time I get on the first post I see is someone dying
or not not like a video of someone dying.
That's for the for you.
The of Twitter, you know, but like someone of someone that I know died.
It's like they push death announcements to the very top, which I'm not like
it's fearsome conspiring that that's like what they actually do.
But it's weird that like every time I've gotten on, it's like it's almost
like I'm logging on to see who died.
Damn.
It's like, oh, just deaths and birthdays, I guess.
That's what Facebook's good for these days.
But no, like so again, like so much darkness and from like it doesn't
matter what side of the political spectrum you're on, like everybody
has something that is world ending, you know, and it's always the especially
like this election year is going to be so fucking annoying.
It already is.
You know, it's it's the most important election of our lifetimes.
Again, always.
Oh wait, and the last one was the most annoying one.
Yeah.
And the one before and everyone and all the ones in between to the like, yeah.
Yeah.
They're all pretty important, I guess.
Yeah.
But it's then it's like, if that was all you were taking in information from,
I can see why you would be pretty fucking pessimistic and nihilistic and have
a pretty dark view of the world.
But it's like, I find myself growing ever more positive because my my own
little echo chamber between Noster and also just Bitcoin Twitter and the
Bitcoiners and nostritches I've met through that like is so fucking positive.
Not to say that bad shit doesn't happen like and people are real about it
when it does.
But you see people that are actually building shit that is so outside of the
current scope of most people's knowledge that you're like, oh, well,
this is great.
These are like some of the smartest people I've ever had the pleasure of
meeting and they're all building this freedom tech like that's fucking awesome.
Like that that that gives me so much hope and it's like, all right, you know
what, things are going to be okay.
I I look forward to raising a son in the world that is being built right now
or at least in a parallel system that emerges and is emerging in the world
to come because, you know, the the old dog's not going to go down so easy.
I don't think it's it.
I finally, especially the not sure like I feel like I'm finally early to
something and part of like a little cool kids club right now because do the
people who are building on us are are cool.
I remember in the street.
Like I don't know if it was a if it was a panel or if it was just discussion.
I was just like watching happen like on the sidelines, but Pablo was like
talking someone asked him a question and he was answering it and he was
looking like really, really serious in his speech kind of started getting a
little quieter and a little slower and he kind of looked off and they just
grabbed his laptop and starts building whatever they just suggested.
I'm like, that's insane.
That is so freaking cool.
It is like, is he having a stroke?
No.
Oh, he's he's coding in his head.
Gosh, sorry.
I'll let you let him cook, man.
Let him cook.
Do Pablo is incredible.
Like that's awesome.
And is really good not only at the actual building, but at communicating
his vision for what he is building and the reasons why he is building it
because that's a very important part that is often difficult for people
that are also like savants at coding.
Like and he also.
I would say.
Created the most prolific and will be remembered forever quote about
Nostra, which is I'm so fucking bullshit.
Yeah, I love that.
And that's why I like you can say like, oh, why can't we delete it?
Why can't we delete our post?
Why can't we enter our post because you don't have stuff like that happening
if you can like that's holy.
It's and I think it was.
Me and was born.
Yeah, amazing.
I think I think Derek has it.
Maybe a couple of people having a think and I'll just post pictures coffee
chain and then a picture of Pablo black and white like he died or something.
It's just a quote.
This is I'm so fucking bullshit like cursive.
God, I am so fucking bullshit on Pablo.
Like he will just continue building at a breakneck pace and it's beautiful.
And I love it.
You know, and it's it was cool at Nostra because you're right.
Like, you know, neither of us were particularly early to Bitcoin.
Like we're all early, right?
Still right.
Right.
We're all yeah, we're all still early.
But like not like we're early in the grand scheme of things, but relative to
this time where and now we are right.
Like I didn't start stacking Bitcoin until 2020.
Like I've been around about the same class.
Yeah.
All right.
Class of 2020.
I like it.
But you know, like you you see people like serious Marty, they just he just
posted all those email dumps from between himself and Satoshi.
Like and that is just like it's so cool to see that.
And I remember seeing him speaking at Nostrica about and telling the story
of how, you know, he paid for an apartment with, you know, with Bitcoin
and like the value of that Bitcoin now is just like fucking insane.
And like you hear these stories about those early days and then you realize
in the context of Nostra, it's like, oh, wow, those these are the early days
for Nostra.
That's a pretty beautiful thing to be here.
And like you're walking around and like, yeah, you're going to go and soak
your feet in the river with Jack Dorsey.
Like what?
Like what's happening that I loved you.
I loved your between two a six with Jack also that that turned out really well.
I bet I'm not a he talked about that.
Was that just a blast to shoot that?
Yes.
It so there have been two guests that I've had that I would say are tied
for the top guest who understood the assignment and that's Peter and Jack.
They were so good that in both of the Peter's first episode and Jack's
episode, I legitimately thought that I was pissing them off and wasting their
time.
Like Peter walked off and I like I was like, well, I'm already here.
Let me do this outro and I looked over and he was like on the phone.
I was like, I'm really sorry.
Like if we that was too much like, oh my God, that was bloody hilarious.
I was like, oh, thank God.
Same thing with Jack.
Like he I'm like, this guy is probably the highest net worth individual.
I'll probably ever talk to and sit, you know, one on one with and he took
time out to sit in the Costa Rican jungle and have me just basically kind
of annoy the shit out of him.
And he looks really mad.
And I was like, all right, I think we're good.
He just starts laughing.
I was like, oh, thank goodness.
That's that's awesome.
I love the part where he was like, sorry, are you going to turn the asics on?
Like, you know, they're not on right now.
Like I can't hear them.
It's like just so deadpan.
So perfect.
It was it was very well done.
And you know, that's actually he was great.
Oh, sorry.
Go ahead.
He's great.
Like he he was it was like it was you would think Jack Dorsey would do an
interview with someone like me.
Like it was perfect.
He wasn't trying to put on.
He wasn't trying to be too serious or anything like that.
Like he was he was genuinely just like he was like, this is my time to shine.
And shine.
He did shine.
He did show.
Man, you know, I would actually love to because otherwise you and I are just
going to one.
We're going to continue riffing for this.
This is a this is a Friday riff.
But I also want to give you a formal chance or as formal as I get on the show
to introduce yourself.
Let and I like to ask a simple question.
And so I'll ask it to you.
So you are Tatum Turnip and it is close.
Yeah, right.
You know, sure.
Tatum turn up.
Okay.
But I think turn up might be a cool rebrand, but that's beside the point.
Who are you, man?
And how did you get here today to be doing what you're doing?
I don't know who I am.
Thanks for saying that existential crisis.
No, I'm a tin turn up.
I'm a.
Former Treadfy worker, I guess.
I don't know that knows dived into Bitcoin and never turned back and I got
degree in banking and finance now working industry actually trying to destroy
the industry.
I got my degree in Bitcoin mining enthusiasts and I got my degree in
Bitcoin mining enthusiasts and overall shit poster comedian.
If that's a that's a very generous term, but that's been called that being
called a smart comedian been called a diet anarchist.
Quick story on the diet anarchist someone someone.
I can't remember who it was.
They're like, you know, you kind of I would call you a diet anarchist.
I was like, what?
What do you what do you mean by that?
And they said, you talk about hating the government all the time, but you
also kind of suck their dick.
And I just I just dead paying.
I was like kind of a point.
I don't know if I'm honored or offended, but you have a point and kind of
it kind of was true, but you know, I'm a good boy.
I pay my taxes.
But that's who I am.
If the IRS is listening like wank wank, yeah, that pain.
Yeah, I pay my taxes to like a status fucking cock, because I know that if I
don't, the IRS will literally come and knock on your door and fuck your
shit up on an unrelated note.
Everyone should have kill switches and have a circular economy ready if
they need it.
If you know some I'm just saying that sometimes accidents happen.
This is just a public service now said maybe you tragically.
Following your death or getting a car crash where the cars never found
anything like that.
But you know, just be prepared, you know, take with that.
Take that with what you how you want and you know, anyway, Walker next topic.
That was an excellent answer.
And you know, I was I was stoked to talk to you.
I'm glad we got a chance to do this because you I feel that in some ways
Tatum you and myself we follow similar paths in in this wild Bitcoin space.
And you know, so Carl and I, as you well know, started out just making
absurd videos and we still do occasion.
We just have a little bit less time now because there's a there's an awesome
baby that's human.
He's cool.
By the way, holy crap.
That picture of him laughing.
I like I'm this I'm a big, you know, masculine dude, you know, like I can
tell by the muscle.
I saw that picture.
I was like, oh my God, I want a baby.
I'm like, oh my God, that's turned to a girl for a second.
But like that was the cutest picture I've ever seen of a small human.
It was awesome.
The the desire to raise a human is I think neither like it is both feminine
and masculine.
If you are a man and you want to have a kid that doesn't make you feminine,
you know, right?
Like it's in fact I have done in my relatively short life.
I have done quite a lot.
There is nothing that compares to the couple months I have spent with my
incredible wife trying our best to raise this little dude and the many
years that we will have in the future of us doing this like it is it is fucking
cool and I heard that it's something that you can't describe.
You can't feel other than just actually feeling it like I I am like super excited.
Not necessarily ready by any means, but I'm super excited to be a dad and like
actually because I mean, I've seen several, you know, the whole anecdote of,
you know, fathers being really protective of their daughters or sons and and like
there's a there's a compilation on YouTube, several compilations of dads
being awesome.
It's like a baby about to fall off a swing or something.
The dad just instinctively like one hand catches a Delbeckum junior and I'm
like, I want to I want to have those wait.
I think I've seen one of those.
Yeah.
I love watching them.
It's just like one day I want to be in a dad's being awesome compilation.
That that's a it's a good life.
Go but you know, because it's it's funny like with all of just the again, there's
so much like nihilism and anti-natalism that you see with a sprit like the
insanity of people being like, oh, what are they called the dinks?
The dual income.
No kids.
You know, those videos were going.
Yeah.
And like that's fine.
I believe in personal choice and freedom.
Do whatever the fuck you want.
But the people who are legitimately like in a non satirical way saying I'm not
going to have kids and that's me doing my part for the environment or something
like I am so sorry you are suffering from severe mental illness.
Like that is really sad.
But also that's like I'm not.
It's a beautiful way to have that.
Yeah, I was going to say it's a beautiful way that evolution and natural
selection is making sure your genes don't get passed on.
So don't worry.
You are pulling yourself out of the gene pool voluntarily.
The rest of the world will be better for it.
Please don't have it's like just like you want.
Like you said, like you can have your choices and stuff like that statement.
I'm not going to have kids.
Okay.
That's fine.
No, no harm there, whatever.
And this is how I'm helping the population Christ.
Okay.
That's where you lost me right there.
You know, like you know, but it's insanity that people have been like
brainwashed into thinking that it's somehow altruistic or like that they're
they're doing, you know, I'm doing my part.
Like it's like you're not doing you're not putting your mind
you're not playing the part that you think you're playing, but that's cute.
And you know, do whatever the fuck you want.
I really don't care.
But yeah, it's not making tiktoks like like you don't want to have kids.
Like that's totally fine.
But don't make it your personality and try to go viral.
Like that's cringe.
That's really weird.
It's like it's like actually cringe like not the kind of cringe that
like you and I and Carla do.
It's like like genuinely just cringe.
And just it's a terrible acronym too.
Like you're calling yourself a dink like yeah.
Okay.
Again, fine.
But man, rough, a quick side story.
Um, so I found I found this, uh, this little like thrift shop, uh, a couple
blocks away and I was just looking around.
They have these socks that have, um, it's like those old school like gym
socks with the stripes at the top and they have like words on them.
Just silly stuff.
Like I got a pair that says daddy love those.
Um, and then I also got another pair that said day drinker is I like day
drinking.
It wasn't until like two, three months later that I figured out there was
no art.
It says day dinker.
Um, and so I don't know what a dinker is.
Someone said it was a pickleball thing.
I'm too scared to look it up because it sounds like I don't want to look it
up, but, uh, yeah.
Just maybe I'm dyslexic.
I have sex daily.
I mean, dyslexia.
Sorry.
See, there we go.
It's happening again.
So maybe this were the socks on sale, uh, because maybe that's the, the typo
was had something to do with the reduced price.
You can say.
I'm sorry.
No, I paid like $15 for a pair of socks.
Shit man.
But I was like, I was like, I did drink.
I love to drink.
I'll wear these on that day drinking.
Like, no, day, I'm just going to be dinking.
I'm just going to be.
Oh, that's unfortunate.
But yeah, long story short, I highly, uh, I highly recommend having kids when
you are ready for it.
I am very early in this journey.
Yeah.
Right now if you want.
No, but it's, uh, I have never been lacking in purpose in my life.
That's not been an issue for me.
Um, I've, I felt pretty good about where my life is heading, but I've got to say
having a kid gives purpose a entirely new depth that is really cool because
it's like, wait, I have a question.
That's what you're building for, you know, like, like, what if, like, if not,
what would it, you're building so you can what retire on some island by yourself
in over many years?
Like, okay, cool.
Again, if that's what you want to do, freedom of fucking choice, do whatever
you want, but it's cool to know that you can build something that you can then
use to make your offspring's life better and more meaningful.
And I think like the ultimate goal of like any dad should be, and I don't
have the daughter yet, so I can only speak for some, but it's like, I just
want to raise a son who's a better man than I am.
Like let's, I want this to be an additive process.
Like I'm not fucking perfect.
That's for sure.
And so I'm just going to try to do my best and luckily I've got a fucking
badass wife that helps a lot.
Um,
she is pretty damn cool.
She's pretty fucking cool.
Yeah.
I still, you know, still not sure how I lucked out there.
It's like, oh boy, yeah.
Lucky man.
I mean, if I were to see y'all like randomly not knowing y'all, like y'all
are too like objectively attractive looking people, I feel like y'all make a
really cute couple.
Then just turn into a girl again, dude.
What's with me?
What's in the water today?
I have baby fever and I'm saying people are cute couples.
What the hell?
Having like some sort of almond soy milk over there.
Something like that.
I did start my vegan diet last night.
I'm just kidding.
I ate with a vegan out last night.
He's really cool.
He's he's a big quarter, big one.
I had a question for you.
Do you feel like,
and you can elaborate this on the stages of like you and Carla.
Finding out the other pregnant and then probably born.
Even when y'all are trying.
Did it feel like your.
Purpose that you had.
Felt up until that point was.
Amplified or changed.
When Apollo was in the equation or.
Or like they're just thought of Apollo.
Or do you feel like you have a new purpose now?
Or is it some kind of like.
Venn diagram and combination of both.
Like what is the purpose of the.
Combination of both. Like what is that?
Yes.
Yes. Yes to the both because it's like.
I guess I would say that it.
It gave me a different layer and level of purpose.
And it gave me a greater.
Urgencies the wrong word.
Like.
Severe any kind of.
Yeah. Yeah. Maybe.
It made me realize.
That I've tried to.
And Bitcoin has been very helpful with this but.
Have a very low time preference and.
Think about the future without you know there's no reason to make yourself.
Miserable in the present right like the presence all that exists.
Life is meant for a living.
That being said if you only live for the moment then.
That tends to not always turn out so well.
But like mentally you should appreciate the present.
Because the you know the past and the future don't really exist like all we have is the moving present.
But.
This just made me realize like oh shit like.
I've made me want to work harder.
It made me want to.
And to make sure that I'm the kind of man.
That my son can look up to.
And to be.
Also a better husband because it's like that's you know part of.
Raising kids is also like how well are you.
Supporting your partner in all this right and like.
I'm lucky the minds of you know again she's a bad ass lady.
I'm fortunate there but.
Yeah it's a it's a.
I'm excited for the next however many.
Years.
Of raising kids like we are just we're just dipping our toes in you know.
But it's cool what I love to see also is that like.
We're about to get another pregnancy announcement.
Is that what you're saying.
No we're going to take take take a nice little pause here.
But you know it's amazing to see like Bitcoin baby number go up.
Oh my God.
It is clear.
Had his kids.
Yeah.
Yeah congratulations Nico and Sophie that's fucking awesome.
Like it and there you've noticed like it's been there's been a lot of Bitcoiners that are like yep.
The time.
Either first kid or second or like third or you know just babies come out.
Well I think it was building in the bear market for the bull market like now you know babies are made in the bear market they're born in the bull market I think that's a.
There we go there we go.
We can put that on a plaque.
Coin that yeah yeah I like it.
But now it's a.
It's a it's a cool trip so far.
And again like back to the hope for the future thing.
I do not want to be nihilistic about what the future has in store because that means that I am resigning myself to leave my child.
Mine and Carlos child a shittier future than we have right now.
Like.
Fuck know that for what.
Yeah it's like no that like I want to like fuck you totalitarian neo communist Marxist fucks we are not going to bend the knee to you.
Like there is a better world that will come out of everything that is being built right now.
And I'm fucking bullish on that you know.
It's so crazy because like.
Obviously people have been born after 2009.
But like you now have a personal connection.
Yeah.
Surprise.
My God.
Yeah I know you might have any data.
You have any data on that.
I know you might have thought there was a little gap there but I met someone.
The kids in our home.
That's how weird.
Like did now you have a you have the playground personal.
No I'm not allowed near those.
I got stopped dude.
Anyway now you have like a personal connection with someone who like not even like personal like you created this person who was born after one of the kids.
Like not even like personal like you created this person who was born after well after Bitcoin.
And it's like how does that how does that make you feel because I know I quoted the picture and said like as a smile of a kid who knows inherently that his parents have been stacking like him efforts for him.
It's like.
I hate always tie in stuff to Bitcoin but you know it's like what it how does that feel like it was born at 50 or 40 ish thousand dollars which is crazy.
I mean it's interesting using the fiat price to designate his birth I would have gone you know time chain length or height.
Yeah.
It's just a thing about the price and like because I mean the people who were born you know after 2009 like the price was lowered it keeps getting higher and higher and higher.
I feel like babies going born into very high barriers of entry into you know getting those those coins stashing them up.
It's a crazy thing to think about like what is the world going to look like when he actually like 18 years from now like he's becoming a legal adult.
What is the world going to look like then.
How will Bitcoin or maybe how not will Bitcoin have changed that world.
Like 18 years is like that's a that's a big chunk of time.
Right.
That's that's you know four and a half having cycles like that's wow a lot can happen there.
You know and and I think a difficult thing this is something that I actually before he was born I was asking Preston Pish about this or Preston Piss as you said in.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yes of course.
Wonderful human guy I really respect a lot as both a Bitcoin or a veteran a family man like he's just a fucking he's a good guy at one of those people you meet through Bitcoin you're like man.
You know you're in the right spot when you're meeting people like that.
But I asked him like how do you balance like obviously.
All of us right now are really to Bitcoin still in the grand scheme of things.
Some more so than others but like 10 20 years from now like anyone that was in now is going to have it's like it's real early.
Like if you were in 2020 like fuck 18 years from then like damn that's a different it's a different ballgame.
How do you balance trying to give your kids the best life that you can give them while also ensuring that you raise kids to have grit and drive and the will to build and create on their own.
Because I'm sure we all know plenty of people either growing up or that you went to school with or from fiat jobs where it's like they came from really well off parents and it did not did not do them any favors like it made things easier for them but that was part of the
problem is that it made things too easy and you know Preston was basically like yeah you know I'm just not going to give my kids anything for you know a long time like work to like you got to you got to learn to work learn to create learn to build.
And I think that's that's going to be a difficult balancing act for me for myself and Carla but also for a lot of Bitcoiners like.
You know maybe you just you know it don't well you know you don't ever tell anyone how much Bitcoin you have but maybe you know don't even tell your kids how much Bitcoin you have.
Because you want to instill in them the same drive that allowed you to get to where you are.
So I think that that's like I definitely don't have all the answers there like I luckily I still got some time he's not even talking yet you know so luckily still got some time.
I'm like I'm not so I know I'm honestly I I'm got to get in as many of those tweets like oh my you know my child just looked at me today.
Oh my God I love those.
Those are so funny where you know like I remember seeing one that was like you know my my one one year old looked at me and said you know why why did Donald Trump win the election if he's so like if he's so evil and doesn't respect human rights and like really like your one year old said that.
Like okay like that like stuck with me and so now I'm gonna I'm gonna milk that as some deep satire.
But yeah.
I'm trying to find I know that I have.
Here's.
Wait what's this I came home from work to be.
Yeah.
My six month I posted this like 21 my six month old was waiting for me at the door when I came home from work with two beers and said here dad looks like you need one of these bad boys to love my kid like stuff like that like those are so freaking funny.
It's a great joke format.
Oh yeah absolutely.
So I'm switching gears a little bit actually because you know I remember what I was getting back to before we went on a tangent here.
Yeah you were somebody who like Carl and myself entered this Bitcoin space as the quote like jokers right.
And that's a great place to be because I think when we when both yourself and Carl and I started making content content it was like we didn't start making content till 2021.
It was when things that we just taken up you know had a blown way down from the high 60s.
People were bumming out and we were like let's just make fucking funny Bitcoin videos because everybody's so goddamn serious and those probably a similar.
That's exactly that's literally exactly why like I wanted to do something in the space and like on my own.
I started a blog explain Bitcoin like I'm five and it it was I did enjoy doing that but I'm just not a long form writer and it got really tough.
Then I tried starting a podcast turns out there's too many podcasts then you may have had to ask because exactly why I started another fucking Bitcoin podcast.
And that never even took off and I just like kept failing forward.
And finally I was like let me you know do this silly idea because you know it was to a point where I would log on to Twitter and I mean I was mad at people for being mad at people for the dumbest reasons like sometimes it wasn't even about like today people are mad and arguing about Bitcoin related things.
Ordinal CDP cabinets all that stuff.
Bitcoiners were arguing like I mean legitimately not even silly like oh no this is the best TV show like they were mad at each other about stupid shit.
I was like I'm going to put it into this and it somehow I guess kind of works somehow but that everyone was so sour it was just straight nine on Twitter.
I know. And like I think it's a I mean right now the the phrase you know making Bitcoin fun might have some loaded meaning given some of the folks that have been using that phrase.
But I remember the first Bitcoin conference that Carl and I went to was unconfiscatable.
And that was in 2022 like it was not not long ago.
And we were on a panel. It was Carl and I Gandalf who dressed as I remember that.
Yeah. Yeah. Niko was up there. An angry old goat as well.
And it was the panel was called like making Bitcoin fun again.
And it's so ironic that Gandalf was dressed as a wizard too.
It was beautiful.
But you know I think there's this like OK there's quote making make Bitcoin fun again which is being used by some right now for certain reasons whatever.
Then there's like making fun Bitcoin content.
And then there's making fun of Bitcoin and Bitcoiners as kind of niche micro industry humor which has its own place as well.
And the interesting thing is and this is where I wanted to get to is it's tough to crawl out of the hole of I'm a Joker and to go and start doing more serious stuff.
But I know that you are somebody who actually knows a fuckload about the technical side of Bitcoin and mining.
But now you're fighting this uphill battle of being like you guys I swear I'm not just really really really ridiculously funny and have a sweet mustache.
I also know stuff. But it's a tough hole to get out of. And that's for you know myself.
I was like well of course I'll just start a podcast like every other man of a certain age is in Bitcoin.
And then you know you said the demographic.
I was legitimately going to start this podcast.
The initial way was as a joke like to be a Bitcoin podcast about Bitcoin podcasting and have it be complete satire.
I actually do want to have serious conversations with people and talk about stuff because I'm I'm quite fascinated by it.
And my fiat job is I'm still mining fiat. You know like this is this is a hobby for me.
But it's a great hobby because I get to talk with Bitcoiners about Bitcoin and about NoSterp and about fucking monetary theory and fucking Neo Marxists and all sorts of stuff.
And that's really cool. But show me your brain. Is that the correct phrase.
So hey no we're getting like that.
Oh shit. OK. Not the brain your brain. But like you you actually do you you home mine.
You've also like I don't know. Talk to me about fucking Bitcoin mining man.
Talk about what your how you started getting into that. And let's set the record straight Tatum is not just a moderately funny guy with a mustache.
He also there's a brain behind that mustache.
You have activated my trap part. No.
I didn't want to get into my actually the my kind of like.
Orange pill story but kind of like how I started deep diving was that I was at a trap by job that had a lot of adverse effects on me like.
Not even exaggerating on that. We can talk about that later. Yeah.
I had a very abusive boss.
And it was my girlfriend at the time.
She asked me like she knew that I was miserable at the job.
And she asked me like how much research do you do in your free time about life insurance.
I was like none wouldn't want to say how much research do you do in your free time about Bitcoin.
I was like all right. I like where your head's at. I see where you go.
And so I just I there was this is a really fun story actually I.
So that I will only work at this particular job for a year and I made $12,000 the entire year.
And there was one one case that I had that if I closed on this deal.
I would basically be about even I'd be on the right track to where I'd be able to.
More easily crawl out of the hole that I was in it still be really difficult.
And the I was I was traveling and the guy called me.
He's like, Hey man, what's up? You know, small talk.
It's like so really sorry, but like I think we're going to go to someone else.
I was like, okay. He's like this is usually where you're trying to like point in.
I'm so we were friends too. So what like he was just some random client.
Trying to test my sales skills, but he was like, you sound really okay with that.
I was like, Oh yeah, no, totally fine.
And he was like, I'm just going to be real with you as a friend.
Like we're going to give you this a lot, a lot of money.
I know, you know, roughly about how much you can.
I was like, dude, seriously, don't worry about it.
It's like, okay, hung up, call my boss. I was like, yo, Mr. Boss.
I was like, this is my four week notice over the phone.
I know it's crazy, but I am giving you four weeks rather than two.
I want to tie up everything and I'm going to be done.
So thanks for everything you did.
So that very, absolutely he did anything for me.
And he was like, Oh, hold on. Let's talk about this.
And I was like, yeah, they were good.
So hung up just like 10 minutes later, his boss calls me.
He's like, Hey, man, what's going on?
I was like, what's up?
He's like, just checking in, seeing how things are going.
I was like, no, you're not.
And he's like, no, I like checking on my team.
I said, I've never talked to you in my entire life.
Like, would you do not care about me right now?
10 minutes ago, I just resigned and basically eight out had no plan whatsoever.
And that's something that my dad always told me to always have a plan.
And I called him.
I was like, this is where I start.
I start crying a little bit.
I was like, my dad's about to kill me.
I'm also scared.
I called him. I was like, Hey, man, I just resigned.
Almost in my words was like, I just resigned from my job.
And he's like, I think you should have.
And I was like, what?
You're not mad.
And he's like, no, we're going to get through this together.
I was like, Oh, sweet. Awesome.
That's how bad it was.
Because my dad wasn't upset that I quit without a plan.
So from there, I just started grinding.
This was when I started trying to get traction on these projects of like,
how do I get into the space?
And I was doing the blog, the tips of podcast and just brainstorming all these other ideas of how can I contribute?
I even tried learning to code because I was dumb.
Bitcoin has already existed for like 12, 13 years at this point.
I'm not going to bring any developer resources to Bitcoin.
I ended up taking taking a few.
I took a POM script to Academy.
That was ironically where I got fully actually orange pill like hardcore.
Crazy enough.
And from there, I just started kind of serially applying the jobs.
And I one of the guys that was in my cohort offered me a job where he was at.
He or he he's like, you should apply. I think you'd be really good at this.
There's a mining company I joined had no idea what money was.
Like, literally, this was the last part of it.
Sub industry of Bitcoin that thought I would work it.
I want to do something like financial.
I have a degree in banking and finance.
The one to integrate like financial systems into accepting Bitcoin stuff like that.
At this point in my life, very shortly after I joined, I don't want to do anything but Bitcoin money.
That was a really long winded answer how I started.
But but now I'm long winded.
Hey, look, I'm your guy then.
All right.
Now it's like, you know, I.
I'm doing everything I can around mining.
I'm, you know, reaching out to people on Twitter.
It has become like.
Twitter for Bitcoiners.
For the past couple of years has been the new LinkedIn.
But like, I have this subsection of followers.
Like they're starting to populate my entire feed or following people I've followed.
They're just like talking about, you know, overclocking, doing experiments with custom firmware and.
You know, talking about a future of hardware and stuff like that and.
Talking about their horror stories at facilities and things.
And it's like that stuff never would have thought that I'd just be like.
So glued into these long form post about the ideal tuning.
For for chips on a certain board or something like that.
And here I am, like I absolutely love.
I love my so much.
It's brought me it.
It's legitimately changed my life.
And it has given me it's kind of rejuvenated my passion for just having a passion really like.
I am now like excited to do any sort of work in Bitcoin mining.
It's not something I wake up like, oh, okay, gotta go.
Like I would stream every morning when I woke up for my fiat job my last one.
And I'm not exaggerating.
I there was a couple of days that I legitimately woke up.
Heard the sound of my alarm.
And just immediately start crying like, I'm not a cryer, but I cry like a couple of times while working for this company.
And now it's like, sometimes I don't sleep because I'm too excited for the next day.
And that sounds super nerdy and super cringy and super sigma male.
But like it's it's legitimately changed my life.
It's one of the best things that I could have landed on.
And there's so much that I don't know.
There's so much to come this year specifically.
I'm studying Bitcoin mining in Africa.
And that's a whole story of itself, how I came to that, that desire.
But Bitcoin mining is Bitcoin mining itself like Bitcoin.
Yes.
But the actual mining of Bitcoin is going to change the world specifically.
Third world countries developing nations, people who you think like, oh, they don't need it because they don't have the technical resources for it.
I swear to you, Bitcoin mining is going to skyrocket every nation into the plane.
The plane is going to be leveled because of Bitcoin.
I honestly, first of all, your passion is palpable.
And I love that.
Thank you.
Like, you know, and I'm so, I'm so excited to see and so bullish on the global south using all of this otherwise wasted energy.
I really enjoy the writings of Alex Gladstein, because he's done a great job highlighting this, not just like he opened my mind to the CFA Frank and stuff, which I didn't even know was a thing.
I think that's probably the case for a lot of people if we're being honest.
I didn't know about this monetary neocolonialism that the French are doing.
She should shed light on the IMF and the World Bank and what awful organizations those are.
But then also, like his latest piece, Stranded was really, I read it as one of my Bitcoin out loud episodes, because I was like, well, if I'm going to, it's a pretty long piece.
So I may as well read it out loud too.
And it's just fascinating when you think about, you know, these, these countries that are considered, you know, that are seen as so dependent on foreign aid and all of these things and all this foreign aid that goes there.
Well, a lot of it doesn't actually go to where it's supposed to for one.
Right. And also on that note too, the foreign aid that is being given, those nations are being predatory with it.
It's not like a kind-hearted donation. No, it's exploitative.
Well, exactly. And it's, I mean, we all know that the IMF is like, literally the, they are modern day debt slavers.
This is a sidebar also. There's a great song by Bruce Coburn.
It's spelled like Cockburn. But it's, it's fantastic.
It's about the IMF. Wait, I fucking, I'm Bruce Cockburn, Coburn IMF.
Call it democracy. There we go.
Should listen to it after this. It's going to get you fucking jazzed up because it's just a killer song and he just calls out the IMF the whole way through.
We don't make protests, real protest music like that anymore. It's become a bit of a lost art, you know, I have a play.
I have a play called a baby. That was that was a real protest song.
But I have a playlist called Riot Time and it's for when, you know, I'm not actually going to say for when you go.
Cheers. I'm not going to say for when, because there might be, you know, people who might make assumptions and, you know, three letter organizations that want to take me out, you know, but I think half of my listeners are actually CIA assets.
So I'm pretty sure I expected that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
But continue though with so that let's give the CIA assets something to chew on.
Yeah, I mean, just just on the music part, like I have playlists. It's just, you know, if you're marching to do something and protest, like music is there's some there's some good songs, especially from like it is a lost art.
Like most.
I'm actually going to look back after this and see when the last the last song was like when it was written.
Because like they're all older songs like the from like pre I'd say I think the last one might be mid 90s or something like that.
People don't make music to get angry at your government for anymore like bring it back to seriously.
And you because music is very important to me. And like it's my mood dictates what I'm going to listen to when I listen to also it's a symbiotic relationship. And sometimes I'm like, I'm studying Bitcoin.
I'm fired up and then turn on like some absolute banger that's just like.
So yeah, exactly. Or speaking of rage against the machine, you know, what's kind of a bummer is that they like literally became part of the machine during that.
That's the one part I try not to think about it's like up until that it was great.
Separate the art from the artist and all that. But yeah, that was a bummer what they were like requiring the like Vax cards to get in their show and I'm like that's the most like raging on behalf of the machine thing I've ever heard
like fuck. Go listen to your songs. Yeah, did you listen? You forget. Are you playing killing in the name at this at this concert that I have to show that you remember how you guys used how you guys just used to yell repeatedly fuck you I won't do it you
tell me and then again and again and then like you're like so much like fuck you please do what the government tells me like fuck you guys got soft but like still amazing music was made.
But no, you should check out and anyone listening to check out Bruce Coburn spelled like cockburn.
Again. Yeah, sweet. But it's Cobra. I think he's a Canadian guy actually.
But he had a couple of series of albums that were just incredible. He's got one song called Rocket Launcher.
It's that sounds like I want to listen to that honestly. I mean, yeah, he's talking about like if he had a rocket launch, shoot the fucking, you know, war copters coming down and it sings a lot about South America and it's some pretty powerful shit.
But we digress slightly Bitcoin mining in fucking anywhere that is currently viewed as underdeveloped or quote third world and also slight sidebar.
I think the term third world actually came from like the Cold War era and it was used to refer to anyone that wasn't like the US or Russia like was the third world.
I need to double check that I might be making that up. But we the we are in the so called developed world right.
Developed in certain ways, not in others or perhaps regressing. But it's really cool to see the opportunity that it's not just like what Gladstein says, like it's not just like what Bitcoin and Bitcoin mining can do for Africa or for, you know, Latin America.
It's what these places can do for Bitcoin. Like this is this incredible. I was just talking to to KG who created Machankura, which is the no internet required Bitcoin over USSD short codes.
Service, which is just incredible. Like that's that's amazing. And now he's building a self custody solution that'll use SIM cards. So like anyone with a feature phone and self custody Bitcoin like that's fucking awesome.
And like that was one of the things that sorry, I just got a message I had to respond to.
Oh, no, you're good, man. I was just gonna say, while you're responding. It's some of these things will not be built by someone in the so called developed world, because there's not the push there's not the pain point to require it to be built.
And so that's why like, I think that the global south is going to do so much for Bitcoin and for Bitcoiners and for sovereignty in general, because they are living in circumstances that we are financially privileged, Western upbringing, don't have to fucking deal with
like we are, you know, we are in a bubble, even if you are, quote, disadvantaged, and but you were born in America grew up in America, you are more advantaged than the vast majority of the world. If for no other reason, then your country prints the world's reserve currency.
But like, it's cool to see what gridless is doing in.
Oh, without a say,
like that's awesome. You know, it's, it's inspiring to see like, again, bullish on Bitcoiners who are just like, no, we're just going to go and build stuff and solve the problems.
Yeah, cool.
That's why that's why I had like a weird.
Kind of, I guess, relationship with if I ever heard someone talk about Bitcoin mining in African nations. I initially kind of thought like, that's a little predatory, because they're using cheap energy from, you know, these nations that the government, there's a lot of
corruption, there's a lot of poverty and like, why are you taking that away from them? But what I didn't realize was I was super, super wrong. And what's happening is that like, it's creating demand enough for infrastructure to go into power, you know, entire cities
and basically, because there, there's it right now, the way that I, and I have an episode between two nodes coming out soon, I keep trying to, I'm having technical difficulties for some reason because I record it and MKV format.
If anyone knows how to convert a file from MKV to MP4, please hit me up.
But it is a long story. But it was with Adam O. from upstream data. And the way that he explained it is that like, there is no economic incentive to put large scale power and energy infrastructure in some of these places because there is not enough demand for it to just make sense.
And there is a zero risk buyer of that energy when you introduce Bitcoin mining. Like, it's, no one's going to, it's not like, they're also fluctuating. That's the biggest thing about Bitcoin mining that I thought was nothing, but it is huge.
It's like, Oh, is the demand too, is the demand too high right now? Let's shut off a couple of Bitcoin miners or let's underclock them. Oh, do you need more to meet the requirements for, you know, some power dealer or whatever?
Let's overclock and let's turn more on. Like the only other, the only other thing that can do it, can do that on demand like that is batteries and they are way slower.
Bitcoin mining is literally the solution to demand response and it will balance grids. If people embrace it, every grid will be perfectly balanced with Bitcoin mining.
And that's how, you know, people will receive power to their house, power to their business, power to their entire village, city, town, because there are these little machines that have, you know, maybe a couple of different guys monitoring them to see, like,
you know, do we need more? Do we need less? Because we can do either. It's up to you. And on top of all that, of course, is the coding of you're introducing Bitcoin to these ecosystems that arguably needed the most.
And that's where another callback to Gladstein, check your financial privilege is one of my favorite books of all time.
A lot of people, especially in the path in the bear during the bear market have argued that they're like, Oh, debunk the Bitcoin is a hedge gets inflation, you know, perc.
It's like, OK, what's your primary currency that you use? Tell that to someone who has just watched their currency go parabolic in terms of Bitcoin.
I don't know if you if you saw, I can't remember who posted it, but it was a video of screenshots of Bitcoin hitting all time highs like last week in at least six or eight different currencies.
Yeah, it's a hedge against inflation for them, whether it's up or down, because I don't know if you've seen it in the USD, the price chart, it's, you know, it's up and down, up and down, up and down for them straight up.
No matter what the price would be for us, it was a hedge against inflation for them. And like I'm saying that broadly, I don't know exactly what countries it was.
The video included, but I mean, one of my favorite, favorite facts is that you can literally hold what 100 billion or 100 trillion Zimbabwe dollars in between your fingers, because they make those notes.
There's a reason they make those notes, because like, and also that happened in like a very short timeframe for one one would equal 10 100 billion or whatever it was.
All right, dude, no, it is wild. And, and honestly, a lot of in a lot of like in the Turkish lira.
Bitcoin was already making all time highs like months ago, like that already happened, like and it's again, I would also I would slightly argue again, I think the inflation hedge framing has some issues with it, because simply,
I will agree with that. Not that it's wrong, but that people think in two short of time frames and they say, well, inflation's like why inflation was up last year, why was Bitcoin down?
Or inflation was up last month, why is Bitcoin down? And it's like, again, change your fiat yardstick fiat, any fiat currency is an inherently poor measuring stick.
You're trying to measure a new system with the broken and flexible yardstick of the system that is being replaced.
But also, I think a useful framing is just it's a hedge against general monetary policy uncertainty and overall fiat fuckery.
Like it is a hedge against fuckery, basically, like because you know, like, no matter what that fiat price does, if you are, that's why we say one Bitcoin equals one Bitcoin, right?
Because you can tell because it's a middle.
And then people are like, well, what does that mean $1 equals $1? It's like, no, it doesn't because you can't tell me what the denominator of dollars is.
And if you can't tell me what the denominator is, then you don't know what piece of the pie you hold. And the reality is that that denominator is always increasing with Bitcoin.
Your denominator is always going to be 21 million. And so that's like, but then again, it's like, is that even a more useful framing?
Because now you're talking to people about monetary uncertainty and fiat fuckery. And they're like, dude, I don't you sound like a fucking wackadoodle.
Like, I don't know what you're saying.
But it's people have enough to why they come to Bitcoin. You know, yeah.
It really is one of those things where, like you said, I completely agree. That's one of the things that real early on in Bitcoin kind of gave me a lot of conviction was that like,
Yeah, you know, we're in America, we use US dollars just like the rest of the world because that's who we are, whatever.
And it's like, why is Bitcoin down? Well, let me think in the perspective of someone else, you know, the lowest class citizens in America are arguably better off than some of the high class citizens and other nations that you probably don't even couldn't even point to on a map.
And those are the places where, like, they need it way more than you do.
And I think a lot of people, a lot of, I wouldn't say all, but a lot of people get into Bitcoin because they want to.
And then they realize that they are there because they need to be finished that quote off.
But it's because that's why I got in, I got in because number go up the line kept getting higher. And I was like, yeah, why not? I'm gonna make some money.
I came to get rich as say to get even. And that's what that's the the pinnacle of it all is like, it's, it's solving literally every single problem that I learned about getting my finance degree and more.
It's a come for the money stay for the revolution, brother.
Yeah, exactly.
No, it is a it is a funny thing. Like, I know, I have a lot of a lot of friends who are in the trad fi space and do very well for themselves. And some of them I have gotten to come around to Bitcoin actually, after, you know, many late night chats over many Miller lights.
But others, it takes, they're still just not quite there because they just it's like, you know what, you're complaining a lot and you're saying a lot of things, but things are working out pretty well for me.
You know, and a for you.
Yeah, it's getting smart by choice or getting smart by force. And most people end up getting smart by force for better for worse. It's just the way it works out.
Right.
But that's why it's also I think a great opportunity for the global south to be able to leapfrog forward a bit, because you have people who are comfortable in their Western bubbles or their, you know, Western European bubbles.
And they just don't see the need yet. Like that's an opportunity that's a hole to fill where these nations that have been under the boot, like of fucking France, for example, for way too long, have an opportunity to get out from under that boot and lift their people up and also to contribute in massive ways to Bitcoin itself by creating awesome solutions on top and around Bitcoin.
That's that's fucking amazing.
Yeah, I'm bullish on builders always.
Absolutely. That's the shout out to a layer of dirty coin documentary. First of all, just the I was at a screening of the preview. I think it was in Miami.
Like, so it's amazing. But also she has connected me with a lot of African bit pointers and specifically African Bitcoin miners. And also, Marshall Long, OGBTC been mining since 2010. And now he's, he's like, he's in it.
I think I want to say he's in Nigeria right now, which I mean, that's very relevant today because Nigeria go and have on crypto and stuff. But there's, there's a lot of people like the innovation that's coming out of African nations is showing that with like the things they come up with like SMS Bitcoin.
I would have never even thought like what if you could do that, I wouldn't have in someone thought of that and then also made it.
That proves that there is no ceiling to what they can, they can accomplish of different tools that they, they need. We don't see it. We don't see the need where we are.
I feel like there's, especially if you go on Twitter today, let me say this, if you go on Twitter today, you will see a lot of people yelling about different things. And most of them are solutions to problems that do not exist.
And a lot of the development that I've seen come out of African nations are solutions to problems I didn't know existed. And that's the key difference.
I challenge everyone listening like just in every aspect, but Bitcoin to like change your viewpoint, get out of your bubble, try to experience what other people are experiencing and see why they do what they do.
Because it all comes back to, you know, just different cultures, different, different infrastructure, different systems that you are not used to. And it, that's why I try to lead with empathy because even in my own nation, there are tons of different
upbringings and tons of different cultures. And I try to lead with empathy because I don't know why this person is making the decisions they are because I make these decisions based on that could be different for them.
But I'm super bullish on builders, super bullish on Africa, super bullish on Bitcoin mining. Like, I'm getting a little too bullish, dude. I might start growing horns.
Like, man, but it's a different kind of bullish than just NG you bullish, which also bullish on that. Have we said bullish enough? Yeah, maybe. Okay, we'll retire it for now.
But, you know, it's like, it's not just like when I think when we say bullish in this context, what it means is hopeful. Yes, hopeful because you see that, again, as you said, people are a lot of people argue, and this isn't just as it relates to Bitcoin, but you see this
across every aspect of political debates, economics debates, people argue about about problems and solutions to those problems, or that they're not really actual problems. Maybe they're in the fiat world, they're more so symptoms of the deeper disease.
And the solutions that they propose never cure whatever that disease is. They just put a bandaid on on on the boo boo, you know, I got a kid now so I can say boo boo.
And in the Bitcoin space, it's like there's there's so much debate happening, whether it be around ordinals, and like you, you know, whatever your opinion on that might be like, I've talked to I talked a lot and I talked to jocomo about these things because they both know a lot more than I do.
That's one of the perks being a podcast host now I can just ask questions that would otherwise.
It's a true divorce to get answers. Yeah, because that's what I want, you know, and they both presented really valid opinions on both sides of this.
Like, not that Jameson was on one particular we know what side jocomos on not that Jameson was on the other side of that, just that he presented a really interesting point about osfication as it related to the death of SMTP and centralization of email, which is like a really
fascinating thing like you ossified too quickly and you actually tend towards centralization like these are really cool things and he should know he worked in SMTP for 10 years like the guy knows what he's talking about.
My point being we're rambling a lot today but I love it. My point being that while a lot of Western Bitcoiners are debating these sorts of things, you have people like KG, who's just like, Ah, you don't get his bank account frozen for trying to buy rights to the
Bitcoin standard. I think he was going to translate it or something. His bank froze his account for trying to somehow purchase like reprinting rights or something to the Bitcoin standard.
It froze the account. And that was one of the things where he was like, Well, do I try to get my my bank account unfrozen or maybe I just build a solution that allows Bitcoiners and people to use Bitcoin in Africa with a feature phone like we don't even see feature
phones in the US. Hardly at all unless somebody's buying a burner.
Like it's just not a thing but that is extremely prevalent over there. And again, it gets back to like, it's very easy to get sucked into the minutia of these different debates.
But then it's important to take that step back and look at what people all around the world are doing because there are problems that as you said, you don't even know exist until you read about them until you talk to somebody who's actually going through that problem.
Gladstein again has done an amazing job of highlighting so much of this and very like grateful to him because I've learned a lot through his writings.
But take a step back and realize that you know, the Western Bitcoin scene is not the only one.
It's not that those conversations are not important. Like I think there are some like, it's good that we're honestly debating things like this within Bitcoin, right?
Like, we're, these are like we're debating kind of very well, they're technical things but they're ultimately like their market questions, right?
That's also the beauty of Bitcoin though, right? Is that at the end of the day, like Bitcoin doesn't care. The free market will decide.
And you know, as a jocomo made an actually a really interesting point because I was like, oh, is, you know, is filtering out these, you know, ordinal type transactions.
Is that, is that manipulation or is that like, why not just let the free market do its thing? He's like, Walker, like people deciding to do that, that is the free market working.
Those are decisions of free market actors doing that. I was like, oh, that's actually a really good framing. So yeah, that was a rambling way of saying again, I'm very hopeful because around the world, anybody can build on Bitcoin, like anybody can build on Noster.
And you're seeing that's actually, you know what, you done a switch gears a little bit.
Yeah, like before we do, I wanted to do it, do it, do it. I want to add on say that shout outs and safety though for it. I don't think it was KG that he responded to, but he posted something about his books and someone said something about like not being able to afford them or something.
And safety and literally responds like hired him like, yeah, what a G he basically saying like, you can open source it if you want. Like, I'm just I'm just saying so he he's a he's a fucking cool.
The only thing that I my only beef with say Fadine is how he cooks his beef.
And that is in a stainless steel pan versus a cast iron. Absolutely.
It is it is insane. But you know what, a guy can't be he can't be perfect. Right. So it's he needed to have that fatal flaw of being a stainless steel maximum maximalist safety.
You probably will not listen to this podcast. But in case you do, it's okay. We're none of us is perfect. Someday you'll come around to cast iron. It's not that hard to clean. It's actually quite easy.
Welcome you with open arms. We will the cast iron maximumless community is extremely welcoming. That's what I've come to find out. Yeah.
But no, what I wanted to change gears.
By the way, also, I have a hard stop at three. So we have a hard stop. I've got a hard stop at in one minute before that. So actually, I'm still in power here. Yeah.
But good to know. Yeah, just really cool. I appreciate it.
What I wanted to talk about is just at a larger scale, like, as we go into this next election year, did you know that 2024? It's something like it's either 49 or 50% of like people around the world are going to be voting in a like presidential or like top level election.
Like it's like the highest concentration of national elections in one year, I think like ever, which is kind of based on voter registration or voter registration.
Or voter eligibility.
Let me hold on. Hold on. Hold on. We're gonna find it.
It's I'm pretty sure it's let's see.
Okay, let's see from Time Magazine. Geez. Oh, and the link I clicked is malformed. Nice job time. Doesn't matter. Point being that we can look this up afterwards. You can don't quote me on it, but you can quote me on it.
It is a historically dense year of elections around the world. There are the top seats of power will be changing hands.
Oh, I'm sorry. You're talking globally. I'm talking globally. I'm talking globally all around the world. There are more elections. Like I think it's like it's it's like 50%, which is pretty wild, like, and maybe even more.
That's actually crazy. It's well, so like all around the world, you have power changing hands and being handed off.
And we're at this crazy point in time where, you know, okay, yeah, back to back to Twitter, Elon's like all pro free speech, right. And a lot of things have have improved, I would say.
But also, like, India just like made Twitter blacklist and remove a bunch of content.
I think Twitter is like not even accessible in a well a number of countries, obviously we know like it's not getting through their firewalls right.
And so this is I'm bringing it back around to Noster, because I think that this is this election cycle is going to actually drive a ton of awareness around the need for open protocols around publishing.
We've also got the, like right now going on the trial of Julian Assange, which he should not even be on trial. He all he did was act as a journalist should and publish information that was handed.
Bro said, hey, this happened and now he's locked up.
It is genuinely if if they genuinely move forward and they extradite him and he is or he just continues to be locked up, whether he's extradited to the US or he's continued to be locked up and I think he's in Belmarsh, right.
It's like the really fucking horror.
It's the really fucking hardcore prison over there in the UK, like awful.
That is like that's kind of like the death of free speech and the death of the right of the media to publish the truth and whether that truth be inconvenient or not.
It's insane that we're even at that point and the fact that you don't see every major news organization jumping, jumping at the chance to say we stand with Assange like you should he should be freed he should have all the charges dropped.
Build a fucking statue in his name because he had the balls to actually publish what nobody you know what others wouldn't.
Like that that is fucking nuts that we are at this point.
And again, like a lot of people just aren't even probably paying attention to this right now.
And fuck, I don't know if I don't know, noster does not fix does not fix governments coming after you for publishing information but it does provide another channel for information to be published.
And that's a powerful thing.
I truly hope that Assange is like, I mean you want to know how like that as I say ad nauseum there is no red there is no blue there is the state and there is you love that.
Trump Trump is the one who his DOJ indicted Assange on 18 charges of the espionage act.
So that started under Trump.
It wasn't the Obama DOJ they started to push on up they realized they weren't going to have a good case Trump's DOJ did it.
And then now under Biden they're going to move forward with this.
So it's like wow the one thing Biden and Trump agree on is fucking over freedom of speech and fucking over journalists who are actually trying to publish the truth.
Boy, doesn't that just tell you something literally tell you everything you need to know, then you're deranged and there's no help.
Like, it's the more that it's not the more that like stuff comes out gets any more skeptical.
It's just more that I pay attention not to the news but sometimes the lack there are up news or the the parallel parallels with news outlets.
Like, like these are very, very high value companies.
There, there are like, there are people in everyone's ears, whether it be, you know, money talks, money, it all comes down to money.
And it's, it's corruption, it literally is like we're living in nothing but just a state of giant corruption at some level or another.
It might not be, you know, outright, you know, paying paying off the police force to, you know, take it do a hit or something, you know, like, it doesn't even have to be that there's levels of corruption that we've become just kind of numb to.
Because it seems normal.
But when you look at it, it's not normal man.
Like, all of these, all these people in that are like sea level in these journalists, journalistic organizations and companies.
Why do you think they make so much money?
Like, I'm not saying that they're getting, you know, tons of like Biden's hand them, you know, millions of dollars under the table or anything like that.
But you got to think like, where, where is that incentive coming from that incentives talk and the money pushes the incentives and the Federal Reserve has the money.
Like, okay, that's all I'm going to say there.
Like, it trickle it back.
It all comes down to that.
No, but like, as much as I hate to say it, and I've thought about this a lot, like America has been called the home of the rich.
And it seems less and less and less like the home of the free every single day.
Like there are, and I'm not saying that I hate America.
Like I, I'm, I'm glad that I've been born into this, this country with the resources that I have.
But like the more I'm maturing, the more I'm growing up, the more that I'm thinking for myself.
I'm realizing that there is so much behind the scenes that's scripted that's corruption that's, you know, I mean, the, I don't know if you saw this.
I also cannot speak to the validity of this, but there was something about like Hillary Clinton saying, can we just drone.
I think it was a signs and I was like, if this is real, like I said, I didn't trust verify.
I wouldn't at a point where I could, but like it still just rang in my head because like there have been verified emails that come from political figures that you're like, oh, wow, a person in power said that, let alone a person said something like this, because it's a it's business to them is what the sad part is.
Their, their business is affecting everyone else's life.
Like it's not like a, you know, I have a business obligation with a sponsor or something like that.
Like, you're probably not going to be affected on whatever kind of relationship me and my sponsor have.
I'm, we can have a huge falling out something like that.
And you may not even ever know about it.
It's not going to affect you.
This business that these people in power are doing is literally affecting everyone.
That's why that that's why the government exists or sorry.
That's why the government currently exists.
Not why it was supposed to exist.
And it's just where the money talks take for, for instance, the Mississippi governor Tate Reeves.
He is one of the worst humans on the entire planet.
And I'm very proud that he's blocked me on Twitter.
Um, but, uh, like, I mean, he, he was driven by money because of several things.
And not necessarily even more on him, but like Supreme Court, for instance, they, there was a bill a couple of couple of years ago on legalizing recreation, not recreational sorry, medicinal use of marijuana.
72% of the state voted yes, let's do that.
And like, it's not even like a mix up in the choices or something like that.
There were two choices of one, uh, like, uh, an add on or something like that.
But no, like it was 72% people of people said, yes, let's legalize this.
That's awesome.
That's how laws are passed.
Right.
The Supreme Court didn't want to do it.
Because the incentives weren't the incentives that they wanted weren't there.
They were getting paid off in the back.
I'm convinced of this because I've seen this happen with Tate Reeves.
They, their pockets were getting stuffed by organizations that drive them to stay in power because they didn't like the marijuana bill.
And that's where we are.
It's all the government and choices are monopolized, not even oligopolize.
It's a monopoly on whatever they want.
The people do not have a voice anymore.
Sorry, I kind of went off right now.
You're good, man.
You're good.
There's a lot to touch on there.
I'll, I'll work, I'll work backward.
Uh, a parallel to that is, uh, Elizabeth Warren, who is the classic, you know, loves to claim she's on the side.
The little guy, she's a good, you see the director of marketing for Bitcoin.
Yeah, yeah, she is.
She is.
Gotcha.
I think it's an unpaid internship actually.
But yeah, she, uh, she is allegedly on the side of the little guy and anti big bank and she's, you know, tweets things about, oh, you know, this bank and that bank and all this stuff.
But then she shows you what she really thinks when she's, you know, says literally like, I don't often agree with the CEOs of multi billion dollar banks, but you know, when it comes to Bitcoin, I do.
And it's like, huh, that's funny.
Where's that?
Like, when it comes to the thing that actually matters, which is control of the money.
Okay.
So now you do agree with them.
And this is what I think this is honestly what I really love about Bitcoin as it's entering and has entered the public discourse more in the overton window starts to shift where people are presidential candidates are talking about Bitcoin.
Like, it holds up a mirror to everything because Bitcoin just is right.
How you react to Bitcoin shows a lot.
What, because if you are going to be vocally against an open permissionless, decentralized, censorship resistant monetary protocol that anyone in the world can freely use that is not controlled by any single entity.
Okay.
Why are you against that?
How can you possibly be against that?
I want someone to frame it like that to people, especially was with war and like, are you against freedom of XYZ?
Like, yes.
Oh, tell me why.
Like, it ultimately just comes down to giving people choice, right? It comes down to the freedom to choose to choose how you live your life to choose what is the best money for you that you personally choose to save in or conduct transactions in.
And it's just fucking absurd that you start going down the laundry list of money laundering that is done by JPMorgan, HSBC, Deutsche Bank or Duschbank.
All like that. Yeah. All of these major banks like, I mean, fucking a Bitcoin, Jeffer Epstein wasn't using Bitcoin as, you know, Jack Mallers pointed out like Epstein didn't bank himself.
His banker was JPMorgan.
Like, and oh, we had no idea.
It's like, really?
That was crazy.
You had no idea.
Like, fuck you.
Bullshit.
Like, it's, it's, it's absolutely insane.
But like, but I will agree with the government.
The mask is coming off.
Protect us.
Yeah, of course.
They protect us by by choosing for us. They know best, right?
You know, you know what? Here's the problem. Whenever I'll speak for Americans and you can agree or disagree on this, but I'm an American, so I'll speak for the American experience.
When your team, you know, your, your color, whether you're red or blue, if let's say you're red, you're on the red team. And when you're your red captain is in the White House, you are.
Yep, the government's doing a great job.
Yep. Yep. I won't hear a word against it.
And if you're on the blue team, when the blue teams in power, wow, the blue team's doing a great job. Aren't they just doing wonderful?
I won't hear a word against it.
And if you're on the red team, while the blue teams in power, you say they're doing a shit job and vice versa.
Right.
And we do this over and over and over again. And for some reason, people like they think that when their guys in power, the government somehow becomes benevolent.
When their political presidential puppet is in the Oval Office, all the governments doing a wonderful job and they care about me and everything's everything's peachy.
And then the other guy gets an office and all the government's terrible, but our rebel rebel.
It's I hope that I think for Bitcoiners, a lot of Bitcoiners have gone down this path of realizing again, there is no red, there is no blue, there is the state and there is you.
This like the state is the state is the state is the state.
And having this mentality of, oh, I'm just going to support my team whenever they're in power because, you know, if I don't, you know, they're at least they're not as bad as the other guy.
But each team thinks that that's the mentality of each side that while it's not as bad as the other guy, our guys.
They may have their faults, but they're not so bad as as those those red guys or those blue guys.
And it's this fucking incessant wheel of doom that just keeps spinning down and down and down.
Meanwhile, the things that actually matter, the base layer of our society, which is money is being just sneakily degraded, sneakily withered away to nothing as your purchasing power trends towards zero.
And it's like, fuck people.
If there's one thing I hope is that the discussion around Bitcoin, which is becoming more pervasive, helps to wake more people up.
Because the things you're arguing about, the things that you find that are so important, these policy decisions, they're all moot.
Unless the money is fixed.
Because like you said, it just comes back to the money.
And until we have a fix for that.
We're fucked.
But that may sound very nihilistic.
But the more people that freely opt into this open system, the better things get.
And the idea of the parallel systems being built alongside of it.
Alongside of all the fiat fuckery is this, you know, this beautiful digital Citadel that's being built stone by stone by people who actually give a fuck and have seen through all of the bullshit.
And are still have plenty of their own bullshit themselves. Bitcoiners are fucking not perfect.
We're a bunch of ADIQ fucking psychopaths.
But we're trying our best.
We're all just trying our best, right?
Yeah, that's my little rant.
I like that.
It's easy to see a white car on the road when you're looking for a white car and miss every black car that goes by.
So try not to look for any cars and just see what you see.
And what I'm saying is that, like, look at the good, look at the bad, you know, like, there's a Twitter account holding Biden accountable.
What are my favorite Twitter accounts?
Because I'll say this. I'm open.
I voted for Biden.
And because he had a lot of promises that I really liked that they would be good for me.
They'd be good for a lot of other people didn't act on a single one.
And they go back and pull receipts and say, like, you know, oh, did you did Biden just tweet this?
Let me pull out this account.
This statement from when he was running that completely is opposite from this.
It's contradiction after contradiction and comes back to money comes back to incentives.
But, you know, like, that's why I'm just I'm I'm out of it now.
Like, it's it's not done even feel worth it because I have an open system that I've opted into.
And I live my own life, you know, like, it's it's very tiresome because it is the reality that we do live in and we can't fully avoid it.
Like, it's not like a, I'm just not going to pay attention and live my own life.
But there is, you know, some silver lining, whatever you do, open your eyes to it and kind of have a little cushion of, you know, something that no one in the White House can affect because it's just going to keep going.
So, yeah, it's a I'm I'm interested to see, you know, the good thing about election years is that there will hopefully be a lot of good memes to be had.
Oh, that's a given. That's a one thing I'm looking forward to.
Yeah, no, same here.
And honestly, looking forward to some of these debates, because you know, they're just going to be hilarious, but it's also just like bad lip readings.
Oh, yes.
Oh, I love bad lip readings.
Love presidential debate, bad lip readings.
Oh, there's a fucking great one that I still remember about Bernie Sanders.
Like, you're talking about your reference in that bad lip reading account on our channel on YouTube, is that what you're talking about?
Yeah, fucking great.
I gotta go check that out again. I haven't looked at it.
Yeah, I know what I'm doing tonight. I'm watching the entire going deep down some bad lip readings from past debates.
No, but it's it's it is so sad that we're at this point where it's like we've got these what Biden will be a fuck 80 something or what 82 this year and Trump is what, you know, 79 or like they're basically the same age, like, and it's just fucking sad.
It's like really in a country that is 50 million people. That's the best we fucking have.
Come on.
Like, what's crazy is aside from Biden and Obama, I think the last I think the last five, four or five presidents are all the exact same age, not while they were in office, like, they are the same age today.
Dude, I'm pretty sure Bill Clinton who left office 25 years ago is younger than Biden and younger than Trump. Let's see. Let's see how old Bill Clinton is.
Bill Clinton is currently 77 years old.
And Trump is, let's see, 77.
I think Clinton was the start of what I was talking about.
Yeah.
And Biden is currently 81. So Bill Clinton was a president in the 90s is the same age as the guys running for president right now.
And the one who is president right now, that's fucking nuts.
Yes, baby. Yeah, I gotta love it, right? Gotta love it.
But hey, we have things to be hopeful about.
We have open protocols with really fucking smart driven people building on top of them.
And that gives me a lot of hope. That gives me hope for my son's generation.
They're going to be a generation B, right?
They're, you know, this is this is generation Bitcoin.
And it's going to be a beautiful thing.
I hope.
But I have hope. So that's a good thing.
But I know you have a hard stuff. I know you have a hard stop here, Tatum.
And, you know, I appreciate you sharing your scarce time because Bitcoin is scarce, but Bitcoin podcasts are abundant.
So thanks for sharing your time on another fucking Bitcoin podcast.
But anything else you want to drop out, I'll link your channel.
Everybody should go check out between two asics. It's fucking hilarious.
If people want to learn more about your less joker side, should they follow you on Twitter?
Should they? Is there anywhere else they should go?
Send people where you would.
Twitter is going to have the best of both worlds. You'll see me constantly shitpost.
But also you'll see me throw out just like some crazy just like, whoa, that was.
But I've started to do more long form stuff, not necessarily long form, like serious journaling type deal.
If you just go to at Tatum on Nostar, or if you go to at Tatum turn up on Nostar, which is my regular profile, it's linked in my bio.
And it has that's where I'm kind of logging, you know, my genuine thoughts and.
And experiments that I'm working on progress on my essays, a couple essays that I'm working on too.
But yeah, Tatum on Nostar is going to be.
I'll drop my.
I'll drop the links in there. Yeah, yeah, I got you.
Freeze.
Well, sweet man.
With that, I, I appreciate you taking the time. This was this was a good chat. We went all over the place and I like that.
I mean, this crazy the range that was on this.
Maybe we start ourselves our own little like Jerry Springer style, you know, Bitcoin variety podcast.
Who knows, we'll start building out a, you know, another fucking Bitcoin podcast network or something.
Yep, that sounds like a plan to be it was inevitable to happen.
So, you know, let's just go ahead and do it.
Let's fucking do it.
Well, I mean, thanks so much for having me, man.
Look forward to seeing you in person soon.
Absolutely.
You can also watch the video version of this show on X or on YouTube by going to YouTube.com slash out walker America or rumble by searching for at Walker America.
Bitcoin is scarce.
There will only ever be 21 million, but Bitcoin podcasts are abundant.
So thank you for spending your scarce time to listen to another fucking Bitcoin podcast until next time.
Stay free.