We outsource all these responsibilities to other people that are just other people, you know?
And it doesn't matter what their intentions are if they're really malicious or not or they think they're better
It doesn't really matter. They're just other people. Just another dude. Just another woman. That's how I try to approach it now
Like do you want to
Put your future in the hands of a random other person or do you want to think for yourself?
I know that I can I'm gonna be a look my son in the eyes and say I did everything that I possibly could
To ensure the best possible future for you because I saved the value of my time and energy in Bitcoin and
Unless you can say that and look your kids in the eye and say that in a decade
You're gonna have some explaining to do and you're also gonna be putting your own children a disadvantage
Which I know no parent who loves their children wants to do you want to give them every advantage that they can that you can
So they can then take that advantage and run with it so they can stand on the shoulders of giants and see further
Greetings and salutations my fellow plebs. My name is Walker and this is the Bitcoin podcast
The Bitcoin time chain is 848783 and the value of one Bitcoin is shockingly still one Bitcoin
Today's episode is Bitcoin talk where I talk with my guest about Bitcoin and whatever else comes up
But this Bitcoin talk is actually a crossover episode with Brahm Constine the host of Bitcoin for Millennials
Brahm reached out about doing a crossover show and I loved the idea because I love his show
So we got together and had a wide ranging rip that I think you're really gonna enjoy and yes
This is a Bitcoin podcast where two Bitcoin podcasters talk about Bitcoin podcasting. It's basically podcast inception
But we also talk about reaching outside the Bitcoin echo chamber
Bitcoin versus fiat the effectiveness of orange pilling how to make your kids not hate you later in life a spoiler alert
Just buy Bitcoin and the changing media landscape as it shifts from centralized to
Decentralized before we dive in do me a favor and subscribe to the Bitcoin podcast wherever you're listening or watching and check out Brahm's as well
Bitcoin for Millennials and give both of our shows a five-star rating or don't Bitcoin doesn't care
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Let's get into this crossover episode with Brahm constain
I think
From what I've seen from your podcast you also are not an interviewer like me, you know, you want to have
Conversations, I don't know if you get the comments as well like dude stop talking. I don't want to hear you
I don't get I get the exact same ones and I'm like that, you know that I'm not holding your you know
Holding your feet to the fire making you you know watch this podcast like there if you want to really just straight up like
Question and answer short block interview. There's lots of great podcasts to do that on the just you know
I like to have a conversation and it so meet me too, but that's why I think it's nice to also
You know talk talk with each other and jam
I think what is a really big
They say that like
Right, I look a really big point for when you have a podcast is that I don't know what your motivation was
I think mine was pretty selfish in a sense that I use it to structure my own thoughts around Bitcoin, right?
Like I'm thinking and and and discussing with people anyway, so why not record and share and you know
Have these moments
Almost daily now where I get to reflect on my thoughts around Bitcoin, you know and so that yeah
I'd love to have just conversations and we jam. I think this is an endless rabbit hole. So
Yeah, that was kind of my idea too
No, that's the cool thing about it like you know, I
Saw I forget who I think was maybe as to fun Lavera had posted this the other day because obviously he's you know
One of the the real OG's has been making great content for a long time him, you know McCormick
Marty Bent
They've been doing this and many others but those guys are kind of like some of the really big ones been doing this for a while and
Somebody, you know, you always see the comments like oh
Why is it always the same guests? You know across different podcasts?
Why is it, you know a lot of times similar topics?
You know with with these same guests like you know like you need more variety and Stefan made a really good point
just about the fact that
the audience of like people yes like I think all
Bitcoin podcast they you're making stuff for Bitcoiners
But also at least for me and I clearly this was to funds perspective too
The goal is also to reach outside of the echo chamber and to reach outside of the echo chamber the people who are who haven't been listening to Bitcoin
podcast for years
These topics which may seem very overdone and over covered and these guests who maybe
Seemed to Bitcoiners like they've you know, they don't want to see any more of them. They've heard from them too much
Well, that's completely brand new to somebody who is not deeply in you know engrossed in this Bitcoin space
And so you kind of need that you know that repetition you need that repetition of the message
Because you don't know what what point in someone's Bitcoin journey down that endless rabbit hole
They're gonna stumble across your particular podcast. Yeah, and decide to go into it. So yeah
I appreciate that perspective from from Stefan, you know, it's and it's ultimately a question of you know
Who are you making the content for like are you making it for existing?
Bitcoiners who are deep deep down the rabbit hole and some shows like that are like
NVK does the Bitcoin review which is awesome like technical deep dives on everything that's going on
You know every every poll request that's out there in the Bitcoin space
But you know, but like that's
That's not that's way over the heads of somebody who's just like hmm. I think I'll try it out this Bitcoin thing
I'm gonna you know search for Bitcoin podcast and let's see what I find like they yeah
Wouldn't even know where to begin with that great show for those of us who know what they're talking about
But for the average person not so much. Yeah, I
Agree, I think it's funny
I think you and I would be able to listen to some OG's jam
You know with three or four people on a podcast
But that's definitely not for people who are just getting into it
but I think it's also part of
Like the the wave of how adoption of something new goes right ahead
And that was really great and I also see you have you know your momentum and I see you also spending more time on it
Just just like me right like I think we are part of kind of like this this new generation of podcasters that also reach
you know new people new people and
Tomer Strow light said this to me like that he thought it was really great that I actually started another podcast because I thought you know
Do should I start another podcast? But I said yeah, like it goes in waves
You know and these waves are a little overlapping or you can see the circles overlapping, right?
But that is how Bitcoin eventually grows. We have so many people to still
Reach right so I think this is one of the topics we wrote down right like a Bitcoin podcast number go
But no, it's it's this it's necessary and and we reached just totally different people man
I even had a comment this I think my my my the comment I'm most proud of someone said I found your podcast
And then I found sailor and then I found breed love. I was like, okay my work
Yeah, it's cool like that is actually the internet is infinite, you know in that way
So it's super fun to see that that works like it is not enough. We need to talk more about it
You know Bitcoin is not inevitable
Yeah, like we are winning I would say, you know, but we also need to win that like continue winning that information game
and if you think about this like like I
Initially, I started this podcast as as like a literal joke like it was gonna be like the you know another fucking Bitcoin podcast was the
The name is brilliant by the way. Yeah, and you know coin both cause yeah, why not it wasn't really taken so you know
So but but with I was gonna do like basically a you know a Bitcoin podcast about Bitcoin podcasts as satire
You know and and then I was like well, you know, I do like that idea
But also I just kind of want to have actually sincere conversations too
And so then I was like well shit
I guess I guess I am like really just doing another fucking Bitcoin podcast
But like the nice thing about this is is that if you think about the sheer number of podcasts out there
Just podcasts generally it is insane like there are orders of magnitude more true crime
Podcasts probably then there will ever be Bitcoin podcast
Maybe not ever but for a long time true crime has a really big head start on that and even just like finance shows
That you know all these like, you know finance gurus who give you all their different tips for for how to you know
How to grow wealthy and and all these things and so many most of those don't talk about Bitcoin at all
And so we need to keep saturating this space like we need to overtake that
podcast mindshare and
Build up as many fucking Bitcoin podcasts as possible
So if you're if you're if you're thinking about starting a Bitcoin podcast and you're listening just just do it
You're gonna end up doing it eventually you may as well start now and like it's it's not too bad to start either a couple hundred bucks
for a decent microphone and
You're good to go like that's really all you need
But how what was your motivation to?
Well, you wanted to start a satire one, right?
But what was your motivation to be a bit more serious then?
It was honestly that I wanted I felt that there were
Some gaps in my podcast by Bitcoin podcast experience that I felt could be filled as in like when before I started one like I had
I had I've listened to what Bitcoin did and Bitcoin audible with Guy Swan
Like those were the two that I really started out with say Fadine's as well
But a little bit later, but those were the two and still are that I consistently go back to
over and over again, and I think Guy and Peter just do a fantastic job
But at the same time I was also kind of missing some of the news
Angle of things like they're the only like kind of news
Bitcoin podcasts were really like these crypto podcasts and I was like I don't want the other fluff in there
So I started out actually just doing like condensed newsreads on this show
With the goal of like, okay
I also want to do some some read some books and articles on here like guys Juan does I want to focus more on the Austrian
Economic side of things too as kind of a foundational piece
I've continued doing that and then I only added the interviews in later because I was also just thinking well
I I love to talk to Bitcoiners and and people really you can explore things in a long form
person-to-person conversation
So much more deeply than you can giving just a news, you know a news brief
And I also then realized writing even like a 20 minute, you know news episode
It takes a really long time like it's it's a lot of work to source it all and then like actually write it all and make sure
It's cohesive and ties together so I kind of have dropped those a little bit as as as dad life has me a little bit a little bit busier
So now I'm pretty much just doing the reads doing these you know interviews
But like you said, it's it's a really nice thing to be able to
Kind of use these sessions as an opportunity to explore your own ideas
Like you get to talk to great people I get to talk to people too that it's like I've already made friends with most of these people
You know at conferences and whatever else so you hit them up
And it's like it's just like having a you know, it's having a conversation with an old friend
You don't see them all the time, but you know when you get together. It's a good time
Yeah, I couldn't agree I couldn't agree more but also
Today I was a guest on our podcast physical which is by the way way more way better. Yeah
and
We talked about how just how big Bitcoin is
Is with regards to just the topic that it covers right like just money is the biggest thing in the world
It's it's really what creates all our
incentives and how we communicate with each other and what is value and all these things right and
We talked about that this morning and now that you're saying this I think like that is also it is
intellectually also the most rewarding and
It is the most difficult thing I think to
reflect on and discuss etc like you can find factual information about how Bitcoin works, right and you can find
news items on in a lot of different places, right, but
Why it is important or how you view it or how I view it or how the people we talk to
view it right
In in those conversations there are triggers for other people to be like oh really is it like that?
Oh, I should dive into that more and you don't know what those triggers are right like I mean
I cannot retrace my steps from discovering Bitcoin 10 years ago
Well buying at 400 selling at 4,000, you know up and down ETH ICOs NFTs, blah and then eventually
The light right I cannot retrace those steps like very specifically right, but I know there have been a few
triggers along the way where I was like oh wow, okay if I view it like this
so for example
When I was 30 I had a mortgage and in Bitcoin and I worked at a bank
And then I had a colleague tell me did you know the money in the bank is not yours?
And I was like what are you talking about and then we talked for an hour and he explained it to me
And I was like damn. I'm an idiot. I felt like an idiot like I was this was your banker colleague telling you this yes, correct
Wow, okay. Yeah
good for him fractional reserve banking to me and
I
Just felt I remember really well that I felt like an idiot like I'm participating in the system that I don't understand and
It's funny because I'm a pretty risk averse person and maybe a little control freak
So I was like that's idiotic like what am I doing right?
And so that kind of triggered me to to go deeper down like kind of like the finance
You know dimension of Bitcoin, but oh mind you I was already into Bitcoin right and so you have like these different points that trigger you to go
down a certain dimension further and
Learn about it and see how it ties together and another one for example was when I realized, you know
It's Bitcoin is not investing Bitcoin is saving right like I create value. I get a reward
I save that reward in fiat money or no, I put it on a bank where it's not mine
What you know, why am I doing that? So I want to move to another system where I am truly
You know the owner I that property is actually mine, right?
And I saved that economic energy in in an asset that cannot be the base when I when that clicked I started to move
I was selling everything, you know and moving all the stuff that all the energy that I had like so those are like these little
moments in time right and I think just because just by talking about it and
Having I have my own different background and perspective you have yours the guests have them as well right and so the people listening connect to different people at different moments
And I think that is where the value is right so there can never be enough
Bitcoin podcast in that sense. Yeah, amen
Bitcoin podcast and GU is a is a very good thing again
We need to flood just flood the market overtake all the finance bro podcasts
Yeah, you know get get top of the charts in any sort of way
You know get get top of the charts in any sort of finance category, but only talk about Bitcoin
But but you're right about the the triggers because I know it's like
And I think there's there's that trigger that first makes you want to really dive into Bitcoin and
Then there's the triggers along the way that make you realize how little you still
understand and and somebody you know somebody put like
one of those like along my Bitcoin journey was actually was reading Jeff Booth's The Price of Tomorrow and
just being like
The the whole concept that okay technology is naturally deflationary
So why is everything always getting more expensive and and it's like okay?
Yes, now that you've said it it seems obvious
But until then I hadn't thought about it from that perspective of the deflationary nature of technology
And then also when you're looking at you know, I was already you know understanding it, you know monetary inflation and these things like that
but
Thinking about it from the fact that not only are they debasing the currency and that you know
They are stealing from you that way
But they they're able to debase it so much more because of the naturally
Deflationary nature of technology that that hides so much all those productivity and efficiency gains hides so much of the theft that they're doing and
That's the only read you know if we didn't have that natural deflation
Tech tendency with technology. I don't think they would have been able to get away with this sham for so long
But they have been and that was just like kind of a oh shit
This just kind of took me down this whole another path of how I want to look at this how I need to approach it and also just like the
Scale of this theft and how genuinely bad this is that you know, we should be everything should be getting cheaper
We we are so much more efficient so much more productive
But but it's not and then and we're also somehow still working the same or more hours
You know, we're not getting any of those gains that entrepreneurs around the world have made possible because it's being stolen by
systematic theft which yes, though my point being you know
You're exactly right that you never know what's going to trigger somebody to go a little bit deeper and then a little bit deeper and
And it's different forever when I think and it's different, you know, you're
Without without doxing yourself. I would guess you're somewhere in the EU. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah
I'm somewhere somewhere in America as well. So, you know, like so we've got obviously very different
You know, I was born and raised in America. I live in America now. I've I've traveled extensively both for work and pleasure
But I'm always gonna have a different set of
Perspectives and just kind of inherent biases than someone who was born and raised in you know, a European nation
And like that's a good thing too. It means we approach things differently. We have different perspectives
But it also means different things might flip that light switch on which again is a good thing. Yeah
Yeah, I would agree. I think this is a nice leeway to something else that we wrote down about
Well, I think I wrote it down, but like orange billing is not explaining Bitcoin
I shared with you but but to add to what you said about, you know, the price of tomorrow
There's also something I talked about this morning in in that podcast
You can factually find how Bitcoin works like on the internet, right? Like you can read how it works and you know
Have it explained to you. That's actually my first interaction with
When I found Bitcoin was a Vimeo video that that was titled like Bitcoin explained
It's offline now or it's it's hidden so I cannot link to it anywhere, which is a pity. But anyway, like you can find that right?
But why is this thing that works in a certain way? Why is that important right now? And I think
if we want to
Reach more people to help them understand the problem that they have I think
What you just touched upon is what we should talk about right so I think it's it's
Simple to explain that the goal of people is to become more efficient, right? We build technology to become more efficient
Constantly so if things get more efficient and we all get more productive like all the innovation in the past has been about
Compressing energy in a certain way
So that we can do more with less energy, right?
So from mong's writing in a book to the printing press from horses to the trains and all these things, right?
I think everyone would agree that that is what humans do, right?
so
If that is what we do, why is a bread five dollars as you know as you alluded to, you know
A bread should be free and nobody should be hungry, right?
And I always use the example of there was a child show
In my country and there was the main character had like a little pill that he put in seawater and then boom like a bread popped out
Like he got a bread from like a pill in the water and I'm just thinking like why aren't we there?
What what is going on, right?
And what you you said is 100% correct
We should already be there and we we are way further ahead obviously technology wise
but
If a bread is not free and there's still people who are hungry and the bread is actually four dollars or five dollars
Which side do you think is winning?
You know the the deflationary line versus the inflationary line, right?
Guess which side is winning?
We have worse bread, which is more expensive than 1961, right? We are going back in time
We are maybe we're back to the invention of bread as as you know, if we look at how it's priced, right?
that is how bad it is right and I
Love drilling down on this thought because I think we have to show people how big this problem is right?
You know the meme like we talked about flying car. They promised us flying cars, but all we got was you know, whatever
That is fucking real like we are living in it, you know and and we should realize that although we have amazing technology
We are thousands of miles away from each other. We are talking live and all these things like we have that
but we could be so much further along like
Lightyears further probably if it wasn't for you know the broken money we use to price all these things in
It's it's such a good point and I think I think you're right about the explaining Bitcoin is not
Is not how you orange pill someone to Bitcoin because really it's
It's very difficult to understand like you could have Bitcoin explained to you
You could have it all broken down. You could under you could understand that from from a technical perspective even
But if you don't understand what the problem is that Bitcoin fixes
That's kind of irrelevant like there's no meaning behind it. There's no there's no why there's no why are we even doing this in the first place?
Like oh, that's a neat that's a neat technology you've got there, but I you know if I don't know why it is actually important
What is actually?
This problem this pain point that it addresses
Then it's irrelevant and then it's then it's just a you know a cool little really do yeah, yeah, it's like okay
Yeah, neat
But who cares yeah, and so I think and again that pain point is also
Different for everyone because especially in the developed world in the Western world
We are obviously, you know very financially privileged because we you know export
We print money out of thin air and we export it to developing countries who make things for us at rock bottom prices
So that we can further hide how much in play how like how much money we've actually been printing like that's that's the other thing
You know that America from America's standpoint like our number one export is the US dollar and
And there's Mars. Yeah, it's it's brilliant. It's really cheap to make you don't even have to print it anymore
You don't even have to use the paper you just have to put a couple more entries in your you know central bank excel sheet
And you're off to the races, but
So for people in the Western world that it's like well
There's this
Insane Keynesian idea that's up for some reason really took hold in the minds of the you know academic elite that
That we need to we need to keep creating money so that we stimulate the economy as if without just the creation of money
Ex-neal, oh we would be just we no one would do anything
There would be stagnation the economy would grind to a stop and we'd all be dead
And it's like well if you think about that for more than two seconds
It's very obvious that that's ridiculous like people are people have innate drive and
For selfish reasons like they want to make their lives better. That's that's a good thing all of us acting in our own self-interest
To make a better life for ourselves for our family for our future generations. That's what drives humanity forward
It's that idea that I want to make
My my place in this world better. I want to make it better for my family
Maybe I want to make it better for my community too. Maybe my family extends, you know slightly out outward there
But this idea that oh well if we don't if we don't print money people will just
There won't be any growth. It's such nonsense. It's insane. It's fascinating
By a bread who makes the bread someone who likes making bread right like where do you sell the bread in an area where there's houses or stores?
Next to each other, maybe you know, it's just it's so it's so simplistic. It's so yeah, it's wild
It's I think my other big problem
And I think it's a problem for a lot of big players. My frustration is just the hubris
The self-importance of the central planners to think that they can
centrally plan an economy
better than all of the hundreds of millions or if we're talking globally billions of people who
Who inhabit this world making decisions in their own best interest?
They truly think that they are because they are smart enough and they and they if they get their little theoretical
calculations about how
What humans do with their money and what they want if they get them just right then everything will be perfect and
That that we're just need to give them a little bit more time and get close to this and it's like
You just can't do it. You can't even do it with an AGI. You can't possibly have all of the information
that eight billion people making individual decisions on a split-second basis constantly individual
individual value judgments subjectively valuing things and
Revaluing them constantly around the world with a relation of matrices that we can't even possibly comprehend not even an AGI
Could do that it would create a black hole
It would use all the energy in the universe and create a black hole and suck us all into it and then we're gone
Yeah, and yet these old farts
Sitting in some you know wood paneled office think that they somehow
Know better than those eight billion people and they're just people too. They're just normal fucking people
Yeah, we think that somehow they're a little bit better and that they just they need to make the decisions for you know
The rest of the folks because they can't possibly know what's best for them
You know the the central planners always know best and we know how that works out throughout history not well
No, I love that you say this because this is what I I so I
Never really tried orange billing or something I explain Bitcoin, but I now
Switched more to asking questions
No, why do you believe this? Why do you ask me this? How do you think this works? You know
But but this what you just mentioned, you know all these people that control you are also just people
No one has a clue what they're doing if they look up to the stars. No one has a clue what the fuck is going on, right?
Where are we in what how long where from?
Everybody's winging it right and I use that as as an argument a lot because these people have
Egos they have individual lives. They have family children their own fucking personal internal struggle like like anyone has
but
Yeah, the simplest way to put it is they just they don't give a fuck as in
They just talk
But we also don't give a fuck because we just take it right like they say a and we say well
Well, sounds about right, you know, let's do it and and if you hear Janet Yellen say like or or what's her name?
Oh, sorry Christine Lagarde, you know from the ECB
It's like we have to tame the monster that is inflation. I think like really did that just came from your mouth in your position
And you know but but but hear me out
I hear the same and I keep forgetting her name that the White House press woman
Korean Jean Pierre, I think yeah, exactly like I'm looking at America from an outside view, right?
But sometimes I hear her say things where I think like really like are you testing the acceptance of the audience right now?
Like are you just being like I'm just gonna say this really weird thing and then I'm just gonna see if
anyone actually cares what I say, right and
It's just so crazy because I think what we need to realize is that yes, these are just other people and for some reason
They think that they can actually figure it out for us
Like where what happened there? When did this like turn around? You know, I I talked to Rune Ostkart
He's a Norwegian Bitcoiner and he told me about
Like in this, I don't know 15 16 something hundreds in Norway. You had a king
and the king had an agreement with
With the citizens
That if he would screw them over they were allowed to kill him
That was there. That was their agreement
It's a confident king, you know, yeah, but that kept him in check, right? And it's the same with Rune
I also talked about I don't know if you watched Peaky Blinders
That's like in the 1920s, right? And there's a lot of unwritten rules in the 1920s, especially between criminals, right?
So if we would do a deal
The unwritten rule is if we spit on our hands and we shake hands
That is the deal is done, right? That we do what we just agreed to do if I double cross you
I know
That you you know, I legitimized you to kill me and the other way around and you see that in the show as well
Like sometimes they double cross each other. They get caught and they're like, okay, where do you want me?
You know, and then you know, they execute the guy that double crossed him
And it sounds very brutal and obviously it is but it is very transparent, right?
It is like, okay, a deal is a deal and if I don't adhere to the deal, you know, I
I pay the highest price and I'm actually okay with it, right? People still try to fuck each other over and sometimes they get caught
right, but that
that
I was thinking where I wanted to go with that but just that that equalness in a sense
It's just totally gone, right? Like most people and me too before I really went all in on into Bitcoin
It's just we we outsource all these responsibilities to other people that are just other people, you know
And it doesn't matter what their
Intentions are if they're really malicious or not or they think they're better. It doesn't really matter. They're just other people
Just another dude. Just another woman. Yeah, like that. So that's how I try to approach it now. Like do you want to?
Put your future in the hands of a random other person or do you want to think for yourself?
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Amen, and I think you touched on something really important there, which is that there is actually zero
accountability
In the institutional structures that we have today
There's the percent or there's the uh,
veneer of accountability like for example in the united states
There were multiple federal reserve bank presidents because you know, we have the there's Jerome Powell is the chair
and then we've got you know, the the different federal reserve banks
and two different presidents, uh, i'm gonna think it's eric rosengren and uh, and robert kaplan were their names
And they were caught like insider trading like making massive trades ahead of key fed policy decisions during the covet time
Wow, like this is like, I mean, this is this is worse than like senators and congre-
You know congresspeople insider trading because these guys are literally right
They're right there. They're the ones that are directly closest to the creation of the money
So as offensive as it is to me that there's congresspeople that are insider trading
The fact that federal reserve presidents would do that
Is so fucking outrageous to me
And I was like, okay, like please tell me they're you know, they're sending these guys to jail
Obviously they didn't what did they do? Well, they both resigned
Oh, okay, they they resigned, um
filthy rich of course
And then you know, what happens next is there any disciplinary action? Well, we've uh, we've introduced stronger ethics rules
And it's like well, well your ethics rules didn't stop them from doing it in the first place
If your ethics rules worked then they would have worked
But they didn't so they don't
And so there's just there's zero accountability there whatsoever and there's also zero accountability for just making
God awful policy decisions
And or for just blatantly lying to people like, you know, laggard, you know, you know inflation is a hump and a hump will come down
you know, it will come it will come and and
no
Inflation compounds year after year. So unless it is an active deflation scenario
It's it's never coming down. You've permanently prices are permanently higher because you've inflated the supply of money
But there's never any accountability to that
Jerome Powell same thing
And it just it just doesn't it doesn't matter. It's this big revolving door club
You know, Janet Yellen was at the Fed before she was at the Treasury
Christine Lagarde was at the IMF and you know did some illegal shit there
It's this, you know, it's a George Carlin said, you know, it's a it's a big club and you ain't in it
And it's so true and it's a club where they all have each other's backs
There's zero accountability and if you think that they work for the people
You like you need to open your fucking eyes and so that's you know to that's that's the the black pill part
The white pill part is
At least now we have bitcoin at least now we have something that we do not have to rely
On them they you know, the others who are in charge of the fiat world
We can there's no need for us to trust we can verify
And we can also begin to opt out of that system by taking our monetary energy and putting it elsewhere
And that's a really powerful
Incredibly
Transformative thing because there's not like gold was great gold worked for you know worked pretty well for like 5,000 years
Gold doesn't work in the information age. It just doesn't it's slow. It's a you know, shiny rock
It's you know questionably scarce on earth and certainly not scarce in the you know, the sense of the solar system and the
larger galaxies beyond
But bitcoin works
and
It works without the need for any sort of interference or manipulation
Or hubris on the part of some unelected central banking bureaucrats
So that's the white pill because there are reasons to be hopeful if shit is
To put it very bluntly shit is really fucked up
But there's hope. Yeah, so that's a good thing
Yeah, I agree I what I do find difficult is that
When you um
I think I talked with jeff booth about it about this like
When he says inflation is theft, right and I asked him like why
I understand what you're saying, but for some people that word theft is a really heavy word, right?
and
How how can we approach that because I also
In conversations have talked about you know, as you said the the people that corrupt the system that they are in charge of
That's the worst like they should be an example
Not not the random citizen that you know, doesn't pay their taxes or whatever, you know
Do something wrong like these people should should be the prime example of
Following the rules that we all agree to follow, right? But nobody seems to care
at least not enough people seem to care, right and
I try to explain to people like you have to understand that if you are in a system
That has the possibility, you know, you have the possibility to
Do corrupt it because you see an opportunity
You can say from a distance. No, I would never do that, right? I'm a righteous person. I would never do that, but 100%
100% because you just talked about self-preservation
100% if you think all the system is fucked anyway, I'm here, you know, I can I can do this or that
Blah blah blah if you're really honest, you would do that you have a young child you see the self-preservation there
I need food look at me take care of me like all this thing like it's it's inherently in all of us
right and I think
I don't know if that's black pill white pill blue red pill whatever the first pill you have to take is that you have to accept that
You know your rational mind is like, oh no, I would never do that
but your you know
Your primal mind will 100,000% do that point like that's a hill I will die on I think so once we accept that
that if I would do it
someone
In a position of power who doesn't care about my individual life
They will also do it right and that does impact my individual life. So
if there is a system
A money monetary system in which we don't have to trust anyone
and
Everyone trusts each other because everyone trusts each other right or you can trust each other because you don't have to trust each other basically
Then that solves that
Human tendency to corrupt the systems that we are part of or in charge of or whatever right but
What I find and I wonder about your experience that is already such a big far away kind of like scary realization for people that a lot of people
Do not want to accept right especially if you live in a western country where you've never had to worry about
Anything right in comparison to the rest of the world being poor in a western country is you have no problem
You know, I know, you know, everyone has individual problems and all these things. I'm not uh
You know, yes, I'm kind of generalizing but more like, you know being poor in a western country
It's not the same as being poor in Burkina Faso, right or right, you know rural India or something like that. So
from our perspective
money just works and
If someone comes along with that big thing that I just explained, you're like, you're crazy. What are you talking about now?
I'm fine. You know, my life is fine. It's just so hard for people already
To add one to add one thing you also talk to Maya and
When I talked to her, you know from from Suriname
I told her I always kind of prided myself in the fact that I figured out bitcoin without actually having the problem
Right coming from a western country. I was like, oh, it's pretty cool that I figured this out because I don't even have the problem
Right, I would assume that people who have the problem are the ones that would adopt bitcoin and then she said she really humbled me
She said like you have to remember that people in Suriname, they have two 300 dollars a month and they're surviving every day
They don't have time for like conversation like this
Right or study or debate themselves or whatever. They're hungry and their child is hungry
And they need to find food and they need to be safe
You know and so maybe back to why more bitcoin podcasts or we should never stop talking about this
That's exactly this because the people who actually would need it are the ones that are hungry
Would need it. They don't even have time
To study and and also adopt it, right? So I also feel like we have to now I'll not do it for them
but we are kind of like obligated to
To talk about this because
They definitely don't have time to do that
There's a couple things I want to touch on there
The first of them is just about like the tendency to like if you're in this position you too would probably
Be
Steel or you know do something
Immoral
Because out of just self preservation and the desire to
Ultimately make things better for yourself and your family
And I think that it's it's
Important to point out that in a in a system that is based on theft
Of course people are incentivized to be thieves
The system itself is
Based on thievery so yeah, you're gonna have more thieves in a system that's based on an honest ledger
Instead of a corrupt and theft based ledger
Well on that honest ledger you actually incentivize people to be honest
To to act, you know morally however you want to define those but I think there are some very
You know like don't steal from other people
Is kind of like a basic moral that most people have no matter where you're from what religion you may practice like
That's kind of one of the core ones. Don't take something for don't take the fruits of someone else's labor
That that's wrong and you know it's wrong unless you're a psychopath like
And then you're just like fuck it. I'll take whatever
Like I deserve this and I literally can't empathize with that other person but psychopaths aside
On an honest ledger
People are incentivized to be honest. You're incentivized because by being honest
And that's the whole game theory of bitcoin what it comes down to is that you know
When it comes to you know, like you think of nation-state adoption of bitcoin even you know
Like it's all it's all still self-preservation
But it's self-preservation with an honest ledger behind it
And so that's with that self-preservation you are incentivized to work harder to become more productive
To add more value to create more value
And by doing so you are able to then take the fruits of your labor and whatever you don't need to
Consume in the moment
You can then save on that honest ledger and know that theft is not possible on that honest ledger
You have your piece of the pie that pie of 21 million bitcoin and that can't be adulterated somehow
your bitcoin cannot be
Literally stolen from you so it can't be stolen from inflation. It can't be confiscated
And when that happens like you have that
you have potential for uh
true anarchy
And I I mean anarchy in the in a positive way the literal sense of the word and I I talk about this
Like a lot because I think it's important and people get the idea of anarchy wrong
And it's the idea that it's it's rules without rulers, you know, it just means no masters
And like that's that's what bitcoin is. It's it's it's a set of rules, but there are no rulers
There are no masters. There are no slaves because there are no masters
correct and
That idea that you can have a nonviolent
honest and cooperative society where it's cooperative because cooperating is the best way
to bring more value for yourself
In our current system
It is violent
It is not cooperative
It is theft based the best way if you really want to accrue the most value to yourself
The best way to do that is to find a way to steal it
Whether that be through, you know through playing that fiat game
And so that again, that's a black pill uh with with a little bit of a white pill that things can get better
And as we start to build up this parallel system
Things are going to get better and you already see things getting better like personally for my family
Things have gotten better because I have a superior technology in which to save the value of my time and energy
For the people that I know I'm sure for yourself for for other bitcoiners. I know
Their lives are getting better not worse
Their purchasing power is increasing not decreasing their optionality is increasing not decreasing
and because of that they're able to actually live their lives and take care of their families and
That's a beautiful thing because that's ultimately
I think you're I don't know how
And again, no need to dox anything. I don't know how old your your kid or kids are
But my my son is six months now
And I am so glad that you know, I work a fiat job
It's a you know family business fiat job. So it's a little bit better than just a
Cog in a corporate wheel so I can't complain
But I save in bitcoin and
Because of that my family has more optionality
That's that's all that I want. I want to be able to give a
Secure future for my son
Yeah, and and when you're able to do that and do it with confidence because you know that it's not going to be stolen from you
Then you can actually live as you want to live
And that's powerful and the more people that can do that the better this world gets
The less people steal, you know
Yeah, fully agree. I what I like to
You know characterize the fiat money system by that's a zero zero some game, right even subconsciously people are
Participating in that game, right? Some people steal
Not because they're bad people. It's because they see an opportunity to
Self-preservate right and oh well what they do is that not by the laws, right? It's it's not
I like to think that most people are good, you know, I well we could go this entire spiritual way, right?
But if you think we are all one
then
You know eventually
Then there is no difference between you and me. It's more the context or the setting
You know or where we ended up in our body that that made us the way we are, right?
and
So so the fiat money system is a zero some game
Whereas the bitcoin money system is a mutually beneficial game and that is I think also, you know, jeff booth talks about the paradigm shift
That's also why this is so hard to understand, right?
Sometimes I hear myself talk and I think like damn that sounds like snake oil salesman, right?
Or that sounds too good to be true, right? Or what you just said if you adopt bitcoin
You will have more time for your family, you know, you should adopt bitcoin like it sounds
You know shady as fuck. It's okay. This must be a scam. Yeah, 100% right?
But it's just the fact that
If you turn it around, I like to turn these things around, right?
So you can look at it from a negative point of view and well, you get a lot of comments. I think also on youtube
There's there's you know an Eric Kason talks a lot about this, you know this nihilism in this zero some fiat game
That is what is at the service level, right? People don't believe you or they are just mean on the internet for a random reason
While we are spending hours of our time to try to you know, share the message about this thing and they're just commenting on their little keyboard
You know, like that that those negative thoughts are a consequence of the fucking game
You are forced to play without you knowing that you're actually playing it or maybe you are subject of the game and you have no clues
Right? We should become aware of that because that that mutually beneficial game is only a game of building
We are building together. What I do is beneficial for you and I don't have to do something that is directly affecting you
But we are in this like one big group of people that are that are building together
But that sounds too good to be true because the current paradigm that people live in is not like that, right?
That people get abused and people corrupt systems and all these things and so
I think again we should talk about that more that we don't even have to talk about bitcoin itself
You should talk about, you know, what is the matrix that you're in? Like it is really the matrix because once you understand that that exists
That there's an alternative to your paradigm. You cannot ignore that anymore, right?
So then you have to figure out which pill do I take in a sense and I also agree with you like what you said like you have more
It's beneficial for your family. I always saw money as buying time to figure out what's the next thing
But I didn't understand what I actually fought until I was all into bitcoin
Like so I had that thought before but later I realized that it even with the, you know, following that kind of let's say first principle for my in my life
That it was made harder by the money that I used to do that and now on like a bitcoin standard it the money really is the time
And it's kind of like your future. I don't know. It feels like a slow motion morphing. I don't know if that's the right way to characterize it
But it feels like the time gets stretched but I think it's actually going back to the normal pace of time versus, you know, what save Dean talks about the high time preference
That you feel like you have to go and move all the time and do things and buy things and, you know, I think bitcoin takes you back to just the normal pace of time in a sense
And that when you have a young child that you can, I don't know, be at home for the first three months or six months or maybe a year, whatever you want to do
Right? Like you are now unable to do that and on a fiat money standard. It's just really hard
Yeah, and I think, you know, so your podcast is bitcoin for millennials, right? And I think that that's a, I'm as a millennial myself, I'd like to see that
And I think we are, we're an interesting, you know, every generation is interesting, right? But we're an interesting crossover generation, right?
Because we have, we're not digital natives, we're digital converts, you know, like we still remember, you know, like we didn't have Wi-Fi and then we had dial-up internet, you know, then DSL
And a log TV, it's fun
And so like, you know, we didn't grow up with, you know, the latest iPhone in our hands at the age of six or whatever that didn't happen. So we bridged this interesting gap technologically
And also a lot of millennials started coming into the workforce around, you know, right at and around the 2008 financial crisis
Like literally the worst, the worst possible time. A lot of millennials also starting, started then, you know, having kids right before, during and after COVID
Another just shitty, shitty, shitty time for a lot of people
For me, COVID was actually was pretty great in a lot of ways because I found and went deep into Bitcoin during it
My life got much, much better during COVID and I think that's true for a lot of Bitcoiners
But now like, you know, I've got a kid, he's an awesome little dude, he's six months old, loves to smile all the time, finds everything hilarious
He's gonna be, gonna be quite a little joker, I think
But I'm thinking about like, now when I stack Bitcoin, I'm like, oh, this isn't just for me and for my wife, this is for you, this is for your future
The time preference, the low time preference really sinks in even more
Because it's not just even my lifetime I'm thinking about, I'm thinking about from a generational perspective
And I think, I think that right now, if you are a millennial, I mean, if you're anyone, but I'll speak to millennials specifically
Because we are in that in between generation
If you are a millennial and you are not stacking Bitcoin, you are gonna have really, really uncomfortable conversations with your children in a few years
When Bitcoin becomes so self-evident and so obvious and especially in retrospect that your kids ask you, daddy, mommy, why don't we have any Bitcoin?
When, you know, like Walker's parents have Bitcoin, like why don't we have any Bitcoin?
You know, and like, this is gonna be a, your kids are going to think you are a fucking moron
If you learned about Bitcoin, grew up at a time when you could have studied Bitcoin and bought Bitcoin
And then continued to just ignore it and ignore it and ignore it
And we all ignore Bitcoin, most of us, I ignore Bitcoin the first few times I heard about it
Shame on me, but that's okay because I came around to it eventually
We all come around to it eventually, but right now is a particularly, I would say, important time to do so
And to do so quickly because the world is changing very fast
There's late stage empire vibes, that doesn't mean things are gonna come crashing down in a day
This fiat system is gonna milk everything it can out of the world before it eventually crashes and burns
But in the meantime, you have a window of time in which you can drastically alter the lives of yourself, of your family, of your kids
Of their future kids, of your great grandkids
You have the potential to change that and all it takes is a little bit of time and attention
Turn off the game for one night, turn off the real housewives of whatever the fuck you watch
I don't know if real housewives shows are as big over in Europe, but they are disgustingly big here and I don't fucking understand it
Like it is probably about the most absurd waste of time I could ever imagine
That's beside the point
Watching other people live as well
Yes, exactly
Take a moment away from watching other people live and fantasizing about their lives
And what their lives are and what yours could maybe be, but you think it never will
And do a little bit of studying
Make it so that your life can be the one that you want and a life that you're proud of
And a life that you're proud to hand over to your kids and that they're proud to hand over to their kids
Because you have a shrinking window of time where you can really make a massive, massive change in your future state
And your family's future state
And buying, you know, you're always going to be early to Bitcoin
You're always going to be earlier than somebody else
But right now it's still very early
Like we just got these fucking ETFs here in America
And I'm never going to tell anyone what to do with their money
But if you really want to, you know, move the needle on your own personal sovereignty a little bit
I would recommend that you hold your own Bitcoin in self-custody
But if you have a 401k sitting there and you have the ability to convert all of it into a Bitcoin ETF
That's a good start while you figure out how to self-custody your own Bitcoin, you know
But I truly think ten years time when millennial children are of the age where they may start asking a lot of questions
Because the world may be in a really strange place for better or for worse
I know that I can, I'm going to be able to look my son in the eyes and say
I did everything that I possibly could to ensure the best possible future for you
Because I saved the value of my time and energy in Bitcoin
And unless you can say that and look your kids in the eye and say that in a decade
You're going to have some explaining to do
And you're also going to be, well, you're going to be putting your own children at a disadvantage
Which I know no parent who loves their children wants to do
You want to give them every advantage that they can, that you can
So that they can then take that advantage and run with it
So they can stand on the shoulders of giants and see further
And yeah, that's so, message to the other millennials out there
To the boomers, boomers, feel free to buy Bitcoin too
But I'm not so worried about you
I got a lot of boomers in my comments actually
Yeah, lots of boomers on YouTube
Positive or negative
Very interesting, no, very positive
That's great
I'm 67, I sold everything, I'm all into Bitcoin, I'm 71, 72, I got them all
Yeah, it's wild, wild, yeah, very good
That's awesome though
I mean, in general for me, boomers, boomers that are into Bitcoin
Huge signal for me, probably the biggest
You know, like people who profit from the fiat money system
You know, in a crazy way and they are like, this is all wrong
I need to adopt this other thing before I die
Like, what do I have to say about that, like against that, right?
Like that realization really humbled me
Like those, seeing those stories and these people are like, okay, they changed their mind
Do you know how hard it is to change your mind at like 60, 64, what the hell
Like these people are the biggest signal for me
I love what you shared, you know, I think it's funny
I had a dinner on Monday, I was sitting, we had like 20 people on the table
But I was sitting opposite of a guy, I was like, hey dude, I listened to your show
I was like, whoa, that's just really cool, one
But he's like, I think the name is really brilliant
I said, why?
He said, well, it's a niche thing, he has like a marketing agency, so he's like all into it
He's like, well, it's a niche thing, but it's niche, it's big enough
I said, well, yeah, that was the point
But he said, you know what, it should actually not exist
Why is it called Bitcoin for millennials?
Why do millennials need Bitcoin?
You know, that's the entire problem
You captured the problem in the name of the podcast
And I was like, what?
I never thought about it like that
But I think what you just said illustrates to that, like we
You know, I really hope that there's some people who listen to think like
Oh yeah, I'm watching other people live their life and I'm not thinking about my life
And that's pretty fucked up, like I need to start thinking for myself
Yes, that's the entire thing, everyone is distracted
You know, that's why the meme of thinking about the Roman Empire is so funny
Because they had bread and circuses in the Roman Empire
That's literally what you're doing, right?
If you are at your job and there's people like, hey, did you catch the game last weekend?
That's a fucking circus, like that is part of the circus, you know
If you watch the baseball game for hours, that's not for hours studying Bitcoin
Or whatever is going on, you know, in your society with the money
Like that's the entire point
So once you realize that that is actually happening
You know, and you are being played, which is just, you know
Again, I hear myself say this and I think like two years ago I would have not said this
So it's just so funny how it changed your mind
But I think like that is the entire thing, you know
And you don't have to go as crazy as like I listen to Bitcoin stuff
And finance stuff and economic stuff all day now
This is the only thing I listen to because I'm just totally fascinated with it, right?
I'm not saying you have to do that, but like stop watching the game
Stop watching fucking reality TV, stop watching, stop playing Call of Duty
Just for like one fucking week
And just study what this is, like what is money, like dude
I talked to a guy who's master of economics, double master's degree, whatever
He's like, I never learned what is money in my entire study
So I think like how should general people understand this, right?
Like a double master's of economics doesn't have a clue what money is
He just learned to calculate with units or something
That's how he explained it to me
And so I think like come on, like this is, I want to trigger people like that
I don't know how to do it differently, but you know, it's
It winds me up because I just want more people to see this, right?
And I love what you said about, you know, if your child asks you
Because our children will be super informed about the world
You have some real explaining to do
I was just fucking around, well I was 33 and you were there
That's what you're gonna say
It's true, it's like, you know, and for those people who really just
Who truly enjoy watching a ballgame or watching the real housewives of
You know, go fuck yourself Phil, wherever it is
To those people, do whatever the fuck you want
It is fine, of course
It's fine, however, you don't have to listen to Bitcoin podcasts all the time
You don't have to study economics all the time
You don't have to read everything Mises and Rothbard and Hayek wrote
You could and you would probably find a lot of enjoyment and enlargement of your brain there
But you don't have to, but what you could do is just take a little bit of a break
Because that's the crazy thing, and you see this in most of the Bitcoin critics
It's very evident that they haven't even spent, you know, 10 hours
Let alone 100 hours, let alone 1,000 hours studying this thing
But if you just take, you know, if you genuinely took a couple hours a night
For a week, where you're usually watching some sort of garbage TV show
And you do just some actual dedicated study
Or, you know, you could probably listen to a different pop-up
Listen to the Bitcoin standard
You could just do that
And that little bit of time and attention
Away from your normal distractions, away from the bread and circuses
That could change your entire life and the lives of everyone that will follow you
And, you know, and if you're a dink, you know, a dual income, no kids
And you're never going to have kids, so you don't care about the future generations
Fine
You know, this will allow you to live your best dink life
But, you know, hey, if you want to take yourself out of the gene pool voluntarily
Be my guest, that's more room for my son to dominate, so, yeah
I think, yeah, two things there
I think, you know, everyone should do whatever they want, obviously
But I think you cannot complain about it, right?
Like, I am, my new word is fascinated
Or fascinating, I'm just fascinated by a lot of people
You know, these progressive people that want to fix all these things in the world, you know
They think it's because of capitalism, or the dirty something-something
Or the CEO of a company, this or that, blah, blah, blah
No, it's about incentives, and we talked about that, right?
And incentives are broken because money is broken
Eventually, everything is downstream from money, right?
But if you talk to progressives, and there are some progressive bit coiners, right?
Like on Twitter, but like people who say like, oh, yeah, I'm a liberal progressive, something, something
They hate Bitcoin, they hate it
They cannot, they just, they cannot, they cannot compute, right?
And I would love also to reach like those people
Because everyone wants a better world, like who doesn't want a better world, right?
Just, just from, you know, your local community
You want green, you want schools for the kids, you want houses, you want public transport
Or something like that, you know, internet, whatever, clean water
Like everyone wants the same thing, right?
And I feel like people who are, let's say, active
Or active as in, you know, they want to protest, or they want to do things like
They, they don't understand that they are co-opted in a way, right?
Like they are doing something, but it's not fruitful
They are just yelling at someone who's not listening to them
They don't care about you, literally
This woman in the White House is saying random things, and still no one cares
She says ridiculous things, and no one cares, right?
Absurd things
Absurd, yeah
So you're in the street, you're like shouting, you know, whatever you're shouting
Like no one cares that you're doing that
You should, that is not action
The action is voting with your money
You have to move away from the money that they're corrupting
Because then we can align all the incentives
And we can actually beat all these people that, you know, are breaking the money
It's, eventually, I think it's very, very simple
But as long as you, you know, you yell to a paradigm or like a system that you still operate in
And you know, you're doing this round virtue trip or whatever you want to call it
It's fruitless, right?
It's like the just stop oil people, you know, did you see that video of them?
Oh my god
Like throwing orange paint on a stonehenge
It's like, you, first of all, you are not bringing anyone over to your cause
In fact, you are making so many people hate your cause
Like so much
And this is not
What did stonehenge do?
Yeah, what did that priceless work of art do?
What did those people who are just trying to get to work and actually be productive members of society
But you're blocking the, you know, the highway
What did they do?
And it's this completely, it's just this yelling into the void
Yes
About what you perceive to be a problem
But actually doing nothing of substance to try and fix that
Like I would have a little bit of respect for them if they actually did something
Other than just shout
But they're not doing anything
You're defacing beautiful works of art
You're defacing, you know, megaliths from, you know, thousands of years ago
You are blocking people who are trying to do productive work in this society
Like you are just an absolute waste of space
And if you actually gave, like, not even to get into the fact that, okay, oil is going to be around for a very long time
It is energy dense and allows us to have all the trappings of modern life
That allow you to be a faux communist on X
Like that is, we are able to do all of these things
On your cobalt powered iPhone
Yeah, while you drive your EV that is only possible
Because a bunch of children in a country you've never heard of
Yeah, dug up cobalt and breathed in every day
But no, you're doing great
You're changing the world by being a little cry baby who does absolutely nothing
And contributes nothing and produces nothing
It's like, no, no, no, you're not
You're the perpetual college student studying some pointless major
And then begging for a refund when you realize that all you can be is a barista
And there's nothing wrong with being a barista
That's a job where you're actually, at least you're actually producing something there
But some of these people, they never dream of doing, stooping so low
They have a degree, so what shall they do?
They'll protest, like what a privilege to be able to live your life where you can just go and produce nothing and protest and ruin things
You spoiled little brat
Sorry, you got it
I couldn't have written more
No, I saw that now, it's just so random
That's why I used the word co-opted
I don't talk about this a lot, but I feel like this is not the way
Like I feel you, I think, this is totally different conversation
But well, do humans do something to the environment?
Yes, obviously, do we do that more than before?
Because there's more people, yeah, probably we do
Yes, does the climate change because we are in this infinite universe and we turn around and there's great years
Yeah, also, right?
It's the pointing at this group of other people and being like, you are bad, you should stop
That's not action, you have to take action
I think it's almost, when you were talking about it, I feel like it's a disdain of life, right?
Yeah, my thoughts are co-opted and I'm just gonna glue my hand to the asphalt here
So what are you doing?
Nobody cares, you're fucking annoying, everyone thinks you're annoying, everyone who's on their way to work thinks you're annoying
I don't even like this subject, we shouldn't even talk about this
Yeah, it's draining
Let's not give them any more airtime
The last thing I would say on it is, there are two types of people
There's the people that claim they want to, there's a problem, but they provide no solution
And they do nothing to work toward any solution because they don't have a solution, they just have a problem they want to whine about
Then there's the kind of people that look and say, there's a problem, we should fix it, here's a solution, I'm gonna build it
And then I guess there's also the other type of person that just, you know, some people make things happen, some people watch things happen
Some people wonder what the fuck happened, there's that third type that just has no idea what's going on, even after the fact
But yeah, no more time for the just stop oil people, you worthless drains
Anything else on our list? I have some time left, so I'm good for whatever
One other thing that I wanted to talk about a little bit, because I'm always keen to talk on this, is just the kind of changing media landscape in general
And you're on Noster as well, right?
Yeah, well I have an account, I'm not very active, but it's worth it
I was gonna say, I hadn't seen you active, we gotta change that man, we gotta get those apps flowing
I know, I'm just really long on Twitter already, like 15 years or like, not from the beginning, but very early
It's just like, yeah, like the entire network is there, I think that that switching cost is pretty high, I'd say
But I love the idea of...
No one's asking you to switch fully though, you know?
No, I agree, but it's more my behavior of, okay, I have a thought, I just type it into Twitter, then I should like paste it into Noster
There should be, if there is like some connection thing, you know, some service or tool or app, whatever, that would be great
If it just gets posted on Noster as well
But I loved, by the way, that you wrote this down, because I think what is interesting is that you see, we just talked about, you know, like our kids are gonna have lots of information, right?
But I already see that, I think in our generation, because we had the analog time and we moved to the digital, I think we saw, you know, what I mentioned before, that compression of energy or compression of information in this case, right?
From a thick phone book to, you know, a Google, in a sense, right?
That we are aware of, I wanna say, like, yeah, like what is information, where can I find it, how should I judge it, right?
We are pretty aware of that, because we live through it, you know, for boomers it's perhaps a bit more overwhelming, but what I see with Gen Z, you know, they...
I talked to a few Gen Zers also on the podcast, like they... what I see with them, it's like a barbell, right? Like one side is very nihilistic and it's like the world is dying, I'm gluing my hand to the asphalt type person, or my arm, or, you know, the world is not dying, I'm dying my hair, anyway
And the other side is like super optimistic, super informed, very, you know, vocal, active, way more than when I was 18, when I was just, you know, literally playing Call of Duty, hanging out, you know, at some study, I don't even know what I was doing at 18, you know?
They are super active and very vocal and very informed and I think that is very interesting when you look at, like, the evolvement of media, in a sense, like...
I don't know if this is true, but I see, like, these numbers that for, like, a prime time, some CNN show, it's like 800,000-ish viewers or something.
Oh, it's awful. And CNNs, I think, are less. And that's prime time, like, like, literal prime time.
Joe Rogan is, like, 120 million, plays per episode, or 100-ish, or 80 million, I don't know, like, that range, you know? It's already done, like, mainstream media is not mainstream media.
Yeah, the people in charge of mainstream media, you know, it's kind of the same as in the banking game, I would say, like, they're trying to keep their positions.
But the younger people see through this, right? Like, if you scroll on Twitter and you see, I actually saw two New York Times tweets yesterday, or today, I saw two tweets where I was like, really, is this...
I would love to look it up, sorry, I'm gonna look it up, because I was like, is this the New York Times?
Like, my perspective of the New York Times is something totally, totally different than what is here. Wait, I'm gonna...
I'm curious on these. While you look that up...
I think it's New York Times, sorry. I hope I'm correct.
Either way, they all, you know, many of them have the same ultimate owners at the end of the day, you know, there's different...
High temperature takes a toll on our brains, makes us aggressive, impulsive and dumb, research shows. Here's what to know about the heat wave sweeping across the U.S.
That wasn't even a one, but that's the one I just...
That's... Well, I've got some things I could say about that.
I saw one about a woman who quit drinking two glasses of wine each day because it made her feel better.
I was like, yeah, duh, what is this? What is going on?
But I feel like it's... I used to be like all into tech, you know, like in startups, like these publications, like Mashable, TechCrunch, all these things.
If you look at that now on Twitter, it's all nonsense. It's all clickbait.
Literally, it's all clickbait. They are milking their cash cow is literally what they are doing, right?
There's no insightful long form conversations, no deep dive journalism, real investigative, all that stuff.
All that stuff is independent journalists on Twitter, basically, right? Or sub-stack stuff like that.
It's already unbundled like crazy. And the younger generation, I think, not only knows that,
but they are going to enhance that they are going to follow these independent people, right?
Because the independent people can show their integrity or be more transparent, whereas like a bigger media corp, you know,
they have shareholders, they have advertisers, like they're just pretending.
And I think a lot of Gen Z years, at least on one side of the barbell, they don't take that bullshit anymore.
You know, and I think the changing media landscape can basically be summed up as it's a contest between centralization and decentralization.
Centralization is legacy corporate media. That's having, you know, and it used to be even so much more centralized.
We think about, you know, just if you were watching the evening news, there was like one, you know, one channel to do it on at one point, you know, many decades ago.
And that's where you got your news in that one hour block a night. And what was said there was, for most people, probably deemed to be true and accurate,
most of which was also propaganda. But, you know, it was really centralized. It was a one-way information flow.
And you didn't have any sort of options. Now, with independent journalism, with podcasts, with, you know, anyone that wants to can have a show on YouTube,
they can have a show on Rumble or a, you know, audio podcast. They don't even ever have to show their face if they don't want to.
They can stay anonymous. You can have a true free market and optionality for the viewer with all sorts of...
You don't have to just go with one source. You can pick and choose and find people that fit what you want and find conflicting views as opposed to just the same homogenous view from, you know, all the major news sources.
And you actually have a chance, you have choice. And that's a good thing. And then, you know, at the same time, we see that like the centralization model is just, it's failing.
There are some layoffs across all these major news companies. The quality of their work, which was, you know, let's...
Many of these places did have really good journalists working for them at some time, sometimes that did use, you know, used to publish hard-hitting journalism and expose corruption.
But now it just feels like they're all regime mouthpieces. But they're failing. They're all reshoring the clickbait.
They're all that they're flailing in their death throes trying to figure out how to possibly stay relevant and make money. And it's not working.
Because there is so much choice for people. Because anybody can be a creator. Anybody can start a podcast. Anybody can start a Bitcoin podcast.
You know, another and another and another fucking Bitcoin podcast. Keep it rolling. But that's such a good thing.
And where I also think Nostra fits into this is that, and the reason that I've been on since, well, relatively early, is that you now have a way to completely decentralize the publication medium itself.
Because that's the other thing when it comes to independent content creators and decentralized media.
When you're still relying on centralized tools that are still gatekeepers, that can still be shut down, where you can still be banned, where you can be canceled, where you can be demonetized, whatever it may be, that's still a vulnerability.
That's still centralization, not in terms of the voices that are available, but in terms of the gatekeepers that decide what voices are available.
Yeah, you still have options. But if the person that you really like to get your news from gets kicked off of YouTube and you always watch it on YouTube, where do you go?
And that's why I'm very hopeful because of all that's being built on Nostra. And because it's a, you know, it's a many-headed hydra.
You know, you can't, there's not one throat to choke. There's many different heads and you cut off one, two morals bring up in its place.
And the other reason is because I think it's generally, like genuinely a better tool for creatives, for creators, for people who want to have a single identity that they can then use across everything.
Like, it's, you know, this as a podcast, like it's a pain in the ass to have to, okay, like, let me upload this to YouTube, let me upload this, you know, on my RSS feed, let me post this on Twitter, let me do all these things.
With Nostra, you have one end pub where you post this from and, and, you know, create another one for your show if you like.
But you have one end pub and then that distributes to every single Nostra client that anyone is using without you needing to do any extra work.
Like from a workflow perspective, Nostra is superior. And you're right that it does not yet have the network effect that X does. Of course not.
Like, it's not even close. But it's going to creep up there. And I would not be surprised if we saw something like X integrating into becoming in its, in a sense, a sort of Nostra client as well.
In addition to having their own homespun or, you know, completely centralized silo, why not pull in from this decentralized network and why not publish to that decentralized network as well.
That's what I think we'll start to see happen is some of the legacy systems start to adopt some, some of the benefits that they can get from becoming pseudo Nostra clients as well.
But a legacy media is dying. It's, you're right that it's not mainstream anymore. The mainstream is independent, decentralized media.
And that's a really good thing because it also forces people to make their own value judgments about what they want, but also about what is true.
It's not just you're being fed a single source is you can take in a lot of different sources and actually come to your own conclusion to have your own original opinions versus just whatever is fed to you nonstop by the behemoth of the, you know, the media conglomerate.
And that's a good thing, but a lot of people also aren't ready for that because they just want to be told what to think. They don't want to think for themselves.
You know, that meme of the video where they stitch like all these new segments about the same subject where like different anchors say the exact same thing and you hear like all these voices on top of each other.
Yeah, well, I think, you know, this is some it is somewhat similar what you're saying to, you know, banking and money and and Bitcoin in a sense.
I'm not sure if there's a way to kind of like also keep all these independent journalists or researchers, you know, or media producers, whatever you want to call them like in check.
And as we, you know, talked about what what you can do when you adopt a Bitcoin standard or Bitcoin is a base layer of money.
But I would agree it's easier to differentiate yourself, you know, being fully transparent, for example, as an independent journalist versus hiding behind some corporate, you know, stock exchange ticker.
I think just that already is really interesting.
What I found is the bar is actually pretty low in general, right.
And it seems like it's high, but the bar is actually really low if you just do the work and are honest and transparent, you know, and I would say on, yeah, yeah, like honest in your motivation.
That's enough for a lot of people, you know, and I think I don't know how you experience that with your podcast, but I get wonderful messages from people who who listen and appreciate what I'm doing.
And, you know, it's really rewarding to to get those messages also because I don't want to say like it feels seen, but it's like it's acknowledged that you're coming from a good place.
And that is motivating in in itself, right. And like wherever this podcast ends up, it ends up or how big it becomes or, you know, if I can dedicate my life to it or whatever, you know, that that comes from doing the actual work.
And I think that is what I also love about the Bitcoin ethos is I think all these things that we talked about, you know, in this chat about people who are in charge of a certain aspect of our life while they don't care about our individual life, you know,
we are, you know, we as the people we accept that in some way, but we accept their words, we don't accept their work, you know, and I think with a Bitcoin mindset or Bitcoin as a base layer of the money, we turn that around like you have to do the work.
If you want to earn Bitcoin for whatever work you do, you have to do the work, i.e. you have to deliver value or someone else will not pay you with the most valuable thing to ever exist.
Right. And I think that ethos is something that I think is very, very special and and and also just like the other things we talked about just very contradictory to, you know, the current paradigm like people can talk shit, the woman in the White House can talk shit and nobody
cares like wow, you know, how, how does that even work but this is where we are. And that that realization again, I think it's just something we need to talk about more like that that is where we are you are just accepting nonsense from people that have control over you but they don't care about you
and you're like, okay, whatever. How about that game last night? Yeah, but it's just, I just, I don't know, I hope we can inspire more people to to think for themselves and try to do the work as you said just don't watch the game spend a few hours, listen or read to the
Bitcoin standard or whatever and just be curious, you know, and be humble as in, you know, know that you don't know try to get to a point where you know that you don't know everything, you know, for me, I read that once I think I don't know if it's Aristotle or Epictetus or
you know, some stoic guy who said something similar to this. But I read that once and I was like, yeah, like, seriously, probably the only stoic thing I actually really adopted in my life is that like, once you know that you don't know everything
then like all the doors open, because you know that there's other people who are all the other people have the same. So no other person is better than you. So why, why should you allow them to exert this power over you when they don't care about you
like they they also don't know anything they're also just winging it figuring out what life is about. You know, that that just that frees your mind, incredibly, at least for me.
Yeah, the realization that the people in charge have no fucking clue what they're doing is very powerful. And and that they have no right to do what they're doing to you. This system has been constructed in such a way that they have a perceived power over you.
But they, they ultimately don't. Not if you unless you let them, but you have to at some point make the conscious decision to hopped out.
Like you nobody can opt out for you. You have to do that part yourself, you have to do a little bit of work. You have to go in and say I'm, I'm fed up with this.
And I want something different for myself for my family for my future. And I know that they're not going to fix my problems. Nobody's coming to save you.
Nobody gives a shit about you. Like you give a shit about you. Your family gives a shit about you. You give a shit about your family. Some close friends give a shit about you.
And that's about where the giving a shit ends. But nobody in power gives a rat's ass about you or your family in any real way. They pretend to so that they can stay in power and you'll keep voting for them and keep giving them your money.
But they do not care about you. And that realization, as you said that they're also they're just people. They care about their friends. They care about their family. They care about their children.
They do not care about you. You need to care about you and your family and take care of them because nobody's going to do it for you. And the state is not going to save you.
The state is going to be your ruin if you let it. So that's why you have to opt out. But you have to do it yourself. Nobody's going to hold your hand and do it for you. You have to do it yourself.
I couldn't agree more. And I think the opt out starts with just opt out just with your thinking. Yeah. That's where it starts. It doesn't mean something huge or you go in the streets and revolt or whatever.
No, it's the thinking. Just opt out what you're thinking or start thinking. Yeah. And then I think the government doesn't care about you. I think that's James Carlyle is a great one. But I think maybe the last thing we could talk about I think is nice that also the government and all the institutions
right there are all made up of individuals that care about the same thing as you care about. Right. Like what we talked about their own life their own children progeny all these all these things.
And eventually they will feel the results of the broken money system as well. And they are hopefully going to start to think for themselves as well. And because we are starting yet another Bitcoin podcast.
Yeah. They will discover Bitcoin and they will see that it is that solution that you know we've talked about that brings transparency and honesty in this new ledger and that will improve your life.
And they are going to change the organizations that they work in as well because they care more about themselves than they care about the organization right so either they're going to opt out of the organization or they're going to want to change the organization or tell more people about this.
And that is how it's going to change. But that's a really long long game. But I think that is a very optimistic thing to think about. Right. Like just the fact that whatever you think of Black Rock and Wall Street and all these things the fact that they adopted a random idea that was you know
published on a random Internet forum 15 years ago is fucking wild. That is the signal. You know there's individuals in this big behemoth that all signed off on this thing. You know and eventually they adopted it. You might not like the finance
because I'm sad they figured it out. You know. But eventually everything all the corporations all the governments it's all individuals. Right. And so I have this example that I used in another podcast where I said like imagine there's like this guy from a tax agency in whatever
country. Right. And he's going to call you know Bitcoiners that did KYC stuff and they're there. He's going to call them and be like you know this Bitcoin thing is like 500 K it's time you start paying the taxes or whatever.
Right. And then he's going to go 20 30 Bitcoiners and they're all going to be like what are you talking about Bitcoin. Yeah. Yeah I bought that on like fucking finance or something but I lost the key and or I had a voting accident or whatever you know.
And this person is going to have 30 of these conversations where they're all like. I don't know what you're talking about. I know I don't have access to it anymore. Right. And he's going to think like hmm what are these people on you know and it's going to be a bit weird.
And he's be like yeah yeah they're fucking annoying. But then he goes to the grocery store and his spinach is like 50 bucks. And it's going to be like shit my life sucks. Like I had all these fucking conversations today and my spinach is 50 bucks.
And he's got to go home and it's going to be like maybe I should look into this Bitcoin thing right and then he finds yet another Bitcoin podcast. And then he's going to change his thinking.
And it's really that is my hope or how I see the future. Eventually these people are also they have a job to preserve their own life. Right. And if there's people that have a way different look at life and you realize that you cannot afford your own life anymore and you have a shitty job.
You are forced to start fucking thinking right. And so I love to use that as an example because that I think is how it goes but it's a slow grind. It's a very slow. It's a slow grind.
But yeah I see that as a positive outlook that everyone is just also their own individual. Right. I don't think the people in charge are malicious or you know or at you know all the people not all the people in the government are malicious or working against you.
They're working for themselves in a system that is working against lots of other people in the country. And yeah they're just you know focusing on themselves which is fine. But there's going to be a point where it's going to start trickling down and they're going to either experience the problem more or they're going to figure out that this Bitcoin
thing might be something to pay attention to. And that's how this mind virus is going to take over the world I think. It's I think that's a that's a that's a perfect white slash orange pill to end on. And that's the beauty of Bitcoin.
The game theory of Bitcoin makes people want to adopt Bitcoin because it is in their own self interest to do so. Yes. Even if they don't like it at first even if it threatens the current paradigm that they operate in it's still in their best interest to adopt Bitcoin.
And that is an incredible thing. And that's why Bitcoin is winning. That's why you have presidential candidates falling over themselves trying to we're going to compete for who is loves Bitcoin more who's going to protect Bitcoin more.
No it is. And you know and Bitcoin doesn't need politicians but politicians need Bitcoin. Everybody needs Bitcoin even if they don't know it yet. And that is why Bitcoin is winning and Bitcoin will win. And I think that's a if you're good I think that's a good note to end on unless one question I asked my guests all the time and I'm curious from you.
Are you reading anything right now that you'd recommend. And is there something that you yeah I always like to know.
I have a fun and there for you as well. Oh all right.
I'm not reading it yet.
But I just got it in. This is called.
Can you see that or is it in mirrored.
It'll flip around. What's the title.
I'm called stalking the wild pendulum on the mechanics of consciousness by it's a bent off. I saw him in a few videos I saw.
I'm going to read the back cover. Yeah. In his exciting and original view of the universe it's a bent off has provided a new perspective on human consciousness and its limitless possibilities. Widely known and loved for his delightful humor and imagination bent off explains the familiar world of phenomena with perceptions that are as lucid as they are
and how they are revealing. He gives a provocative picture of ourselves and an expanded conscious holistic universe showing us that our bodies mirror the universe down to the working of each cell that's as above so below right micro and macro cosmos.
We are pulsating beings in a vibrating universe in a constant motion between the finite and the infinite.
And all matter is consciousness in the process of developing our brains are fought amplifiers no thoughts not thoughts source the unit.
So you are not your thoughts right. The universe is a hologram and so is the brain a hologram interpreting a holographic universe.
That's that's my bending.
We can instantly reclaim any information ever known.
So yeah I love stuff like this. I'm all like one rabbit holes Bitcoin other rabbit holes all this consciousness stuff.
But I saw I saw him and then I discovered he had a book. So that's what I just got. Yeah.
I'll have to check that out. I just started.
It's a pretty short one. So I just started and almost just finished.
I was just dumbing us down by John Taylor Gatto John Taylor Gatto was recommended to me by Shane Hazel as a really transformative writer and he writes he was a New York School teacher for like 30 plus years.
But he writes about how messed up the educational or indoctrination system of the United States is.
It's really it's really quite fascinating and also again from a teacher's perspective it's not an outsider looking in it's an insider looking out and telling you how broken it is.
And so it's it's it's really really excellent. So I would highly recommend that as well.
It's probably not quite a cerebral it's as what as what you're about to dive into there pretty out there.
Yeah.
I love that. I love that though.
You said you had you had an ender as well.
Yes. So sometimes I see people tweet about you know Bitcoin is going mainstream.
We are crossing the chasm you know from like adopters you know you know this this distribution I assume right like innovators early adopters early majority etc.
Right. And between early adopters and early majority there's a chasm right that's that's like it's like a space that new technology in terms of adoption has to has to cross.
So you have to have reached enough people.
So some people talk about that right. They say like oh yeah we're crossing the chasm blah blah and I absolutely think we are not.
We are super early.
And I once replied to someone you know I think one million people in the world understand Bitcoin tops right like tops one million people but understand it like we understand this like the.
Not just how it works but all the implications you know all the dimensions it touches etc.
And I wanted to ask you what your number is and then I'll have a little kicker too.
I think it's I think it's far less than one million who who really understand the far reaching potential but I would also say what maybe one million is a nice round number but that that feels high to me.
But like if we're talking about not just what is Bitcoin but why does Bitcoin need to exist.
Yeah but I would also say that for Bitcoin to succeed it it's not necessary for everyone to understand the what and the why because at a certain point it becomes so ubiquitous and there is so much money there is so much wealth there is so much value concentrated in this technology
in this network and in the asset that that moves around on it that it's just going to become a part of people's lives whether they understand it or not.
You know Fiat is ubiquitous.
We all all of us use Fiat very few of us understand it.
100% now and that's that's a terrible thing is when you understand how when you understand Fiat you realize that you're being robbed with with Bitcoin at least.
It may be happening in the background it may be you know it may be the it will be the monetary technology that all value is benchmarked against.
But that's a good.
Yeah, thank you.
You know but because that's what it is it's a benchmark it's a it's an honest ledger we have a gold is a pretty good measuring stick for value.
Across across time right because you can look at like the the old idea of like the price of a suit you know a good tailored suit is basically the same in terms of gold you know from 100 years go to now.
It's basically the same.
And and that's cool because that's at least some form of benchmark.
But gold's a bad benchmark because gold is not transparent the supply of gold isn't transparent.
It's it's useful enough but now we have a better benchmark we have a better technology and that's Bitcoin.
And so I think that you know to your original point.
While I enjoy wondering how many people really understand it at the same time they don't need to understand it to benefit from it.
They will benefit much more from it if they do understand it because if you really understand it you're going to do everything you can to acquire as much as you possibly can.
But just the simple fact that we will start to operate and are already starting to operate with a more honest ledger as our base layer of society.
That's a net benefit for society in and of itself if that makes sense.
Yeah.
So what's funny is I when I first asked this question.
I wanted to illustrate like how early it was right like one million people on like eight billion people list.
It's just nothing.
But later I came to the realization exactly as you said so I love that you said it right like it doesn't matter if everyone understands because you know if you ask a random person can you explain to me how fiat money works.
No no clue or how your iPhone works or your car or whatever.
What's an LED light you know like stuff like that.
So that's a very good point.
But here's the kicker.
So later I was like no million million is too much.
I talked to some people and then I thought OK well maybe two hundred thousand fifty two fifty K tops right like in that range.
Then yesterday I spoke to a guy investment banker from Switzerland who's also like friends with Willie Wu and Jeff Booth and I asked him the same question and he's like 10,000 people.
And I include Jeff and Willie too.
He said like that.
He said 10,000 people and I was like OK it's also it could be like it's very difficult to think in how big a group of people is.
But anyway between 10 K and let's say 250 K let's say we get to 500 K right people actually on the highest level understand Bitcoin.
You know Bitcoin is never ending rabbit hole.
But you know what I mean.
You can change the world with 500,000 people.
Yeah.
That's a crazy thought.
And you can change the world with 10,000.
That's maybe even and the world is changing with 10,000.
That's the incredible thing.
But cool right.
It is cool numbers.
Yeah it's like wow that is a well but that's that's what happens you know it's.
It's generally a small group of people who are really passionate about something and incredibly driven who do change the world.
It's not a giant group of people acting on mass.
Those people may be spurred on by that smaller group of people but every every large change starts with a small number of people and I mean ultimately it starts with one.
Right.
It starts with literally one person or one one group of a couple people.
That in this case it starts with Satoshi it starts with one.
And it moves from there but if that ultimately means that one person can change the world.
And that's something to celebrate.
So.
100% and maybe also last last point when I'm I'm thinking about the book is.
Because we are doing that our brains are fought amplifiers not fought source I love that right like that's kind of like about manifesting and stuff like that.
We are actively manifesting Bitcoin in the world right like all these thousands of people together are actually doing it and if we could actually bring this idea this concept into the world together.
Then we literally manifested that into the world by all of our actions.
And that is just really cool.
It's just really cool to at least.
Be part of trying to do that you know and.
Yeah maybe that's a that's the ender that that's that's.
We can we are changing the world.
And it started with one and now it's many.
But the many are still a few but the few can do quite a lot to influence the rest of the many and that's powerful.
But from this was I enjoyed this chat.
We'll have to we'll have to do this again sometime I think you know what once we're both at you know at at at Peter McCormick levels of downloads you know what was for.
I don't know I think he's too far gone I don't think we can catch him you know but I'm glad I'm glad he exists because he's a.
He's a good guy and he puts out great stuff so and you know honestly if I wouldn't have listened to his podcast I probably would not be sitting here today with a podcast of my own talking about Bitcoin with another guy who has a Bitcoin podcast we wouldn't be.
Podcasting about our Bitcoin podcast together on the same podcast it wasn't for a podcaster so yes shout out to the podcasters but.
Well thanks so much to our rip we did well we just started talking and.
And we can keep going but I now now it's well it's late for you and it's it's time for some some family time for me so.
Great chat with you and look forward to doing it again likewise man thank you appreciate you.
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin talk episode of the Bitcoin podcast if you're a Bitcoin only company interested in sponsoring another fucking Bitcoin podcast head to Bitcoin podcast dot net.
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Bitcoin podcasts are abundant so thank you for spending your scarce time to listen to another fucking Bitcoin podcast.
Until next time stay free.