We're not fighting against people who had better arguments.
There's no arguments here.
This is not the, we're not in the field of rational humans.
We're not rational.
We teach, you know, Bitcoin, there's numbers everywhere.
There's nothing to do with math.
People say, oh, I love the math of Bitcoin.
Yeah, it's great.
It's what gives us assurance that it's true and it's the one data point.
But truthfully, it is the psychology that it unleashes as our advantage, right?
The confidence that we've got the system is what will inevitably bring us to a level
of economic ability to win this fight.
And that's what we have to do.
It's an economic war and we've got to be richer than them.
That's it.
We need the Bitcoiners, the richest, and all the people who got in early rich.
But that's not really the prize.
The prize is to decimate the job of Wall Street.
It's to destroy the financial engineer.
Greetings and salutations, my fellow plebs.
My name is Walker and this is the Bitcoin podcast.
The Bitcoin time chain is 839228 and the value of one Bitcoin is still one Bitcoin.
Today's episode is Bitcoin Talk, where I talk with my guest about Bitcoin and whatever else
comes up.
Today, that guest is Nolan Bauerly, aka CountBTC.
Nolan writes, produces, and creates content related to our shift from a fiat to a Bitcoin
standard as a measure of economic production.
He also has a long and fascinating history working in the Bitcoin industry from the early
days.
He hosts a daily show called The Breakup and just released two books which are available
for free download.
You can get them in the show notes.
Bitcoiners guide to US 2024 elections and a Bitcoiners guide to NPC management.
We cover a lot of topics in this show, but one of the main things we discuss and keep
going back to is how to break through the delusions created by fiat and ultimately how
everything, even chaos, is good for Bitcoin.
Before we dive in, I'm pleased to announce a new partner for the Bitcoin podcast, Cloak
Wireless, a privacy and security focused 5G wireless service built by Bitcoiners for
Bitcoiners.
You can go to CloakWireList.com and use the promo code Walker for 25% off eSIM or physical
SIM plans for your first month.
You can pay in fiat or in Bitcoin and keep yourself safe from sim swap attacks.
And of course, shout out to my longtime sponsor, Bitbox.
Go to bitbox.swiss.walker and use the promo code Walker for 5% off the fully open source
Bitcoin only Bitbox 02 hardware wallet.
If you'd rather watch this show than listen, you can head to the show notes for links to
watch on YouTube, Rumble, and now on Noster.
But if you're like me and you just prefer to listen to your podcasts, I highly recommend
you check out fountain.fm.
Not only can you send Bitcoin to your favorite podcasters to give value for value, but you
can earn Bitcoin just for listening to the show.
And if you're already listening to the Bitcoin podcast on fountain, consider giving the show
a boost or creating a clip of something you found interesting.
And if you are a Bitcoin only company interested in sponsoring another fucking Bitcoin podcast,
hit me up on social media or through the website, bitcoinpodcast.net.
But further ado, let's get into this Bitcoin talk with Nolan Bauerley.
We love the Miller light.
I didn't know we were doing Miller lights.
You know what?
I'm a simple, I'm a simple, you know, small town guy from Wisconsin.
So I can't help it when it comes to Miller light.
It's my it's my weakness and my strength.
But yeah, figured it was fitting.
I just got done mining some fiat.
And so it's like, well, like any good American after getting done mining fiat, you got to
have yourself a little, little brisky, right?
Yeah, man.
Yeah, I've been getting cheese where I live here from Wisconsin a lot.
And as a Vermonter, it's kind of something I don't see around a lot, you know, but Vermont
we've got great cheese on our own supply.
But yeah, my wife's been loving it.
We got the cottage cheese.
We got some Cheddar's that she's loved.
The sour cream, I can't remember the brand, but boy, is it good.
Yeah, honestly, we, you got to love the spirit of Wisconsin where we're like, you know what?
Let's see, we eat a lot of cheese here.
What's a what's a good like kind of mascot for?
Well, how about a cheesehead?
It's just like that right on the nose, you know, like it may as well have been a beer
belly, but it's like, oh, cheesehead, that works pretty well.
Yeah.
But dude, thank you for joining.
You know, I want to, I want to start out by just for anyone who is not familiar with you
who is watching or listening to this, I like to start with just a very simple question.
And that's just who are you and how did you get where you are today?
And you can take that any way you want.
I'm a bit coiner.
I think that the easiest way to describe what I am and I feel settled in that because
I've been professionally operating in Bitcoin for 11 years now.
So for 11 years, I've been paid and have been working off of this crazy ecosystem that we
started this crazy revolution.
So I came in with those that sort of political group of people that came in after the Occupy
Movement.
At the time I was working as a lawyer, not a lawyer.
I never passed a bar exam or anything like that, but I'd finished law school.
I did a little bit of time in Japan at a law firm there, but I got a job afterwards in
the Senate Banking Committee in Canada.
And we were looking into money laundering like the whole FinCEN FinTrack thing, and
this would have been 2012.
But we were sort of a proto-populist government at the time.
And what we found out was that FATIF, which if you don't know the sort of operating hub
of FinCEN in America, FinTrack in Canada, they operated of Paris.
And what was happening was now Canadian federalism is almost an exact copy of American federalism,
except one thing, it's banking.
They made banking a federal charter event.
States get to create these sort of quasi-credit unions they're called, and it's a completely
different charter.
And the corporate structure they're allowed to have is also very different.
Now, the long and short of it involves Wisconsin and where you're from a little bit.
It's basically after the Civil War, the British said, you know, they'd already had two wars
against the United States.
And they said, after they'd seen what happened in the Civil War, they said, these motherfuckers
are too crazy.
Like, we're not fighting this again.
Canada, you idiots, you're on your own because we're not doing this.
And so what that really meant was we couldn't get British London finance anymore to build
infrastructure east-west.
So basically the point was consolidate the purpose of banking into this federal architecture.
So the committee that I worked for actually was kind of a real think-tanky committee.
It's the original parliamentary committee in Canada.
It is literally there to build the railroad.
That was the point of building the country.
They had to build east-west because they knew the private railroads that were coming in after
the Civil War were going to go north-south.
And that was going to destroy any concept or purpose to have a Canada.
It would just been commercially extracted from the United States.
They said, let's try this thing out.
It was like the original Plan B. Like, if the America thing doesn't work out, at least
we have this other experiment and we'll see how we...
We got a plan going up in the air.
Yeah, they completely fucked it up.
And they've made a country filled of the dumbest people in the world.
I mean, they really are the stupidest people in the world now.
And one of the reasons is the banking, right?
They're the most hypnotized by fiat because they've only got seven banks, which is why
they were able to do the trucker's thing back in 2022 because it was literally, I mean,
a group call could have handled it.
There's so few banks.
That's why you saw all the Canadian banks come in and swoop in 2008 in America because
we were a little not interested in the credit default swap thing, a little conservative.
They're making money anyway.
So what do they care?
Right?
So that's why in your area, I bet you see a lot of BMOs now, right?
BMO came in.
That's a Canadian.
That's the Bank of Montreal, right?
That's the Bank of Montreal.
So they came in at that time and started, you see TD a lot.
That's where the Celtics play in Boston and the Boston Bruins will play there.
That's the Toronto Dominion Bank.
They all have these imperious names like the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce, right?
So they have all these names.
There's not a lot of them, right?
So what was happening though to get back to the job was that the credit unions, so the
state chartered banks, can't consolidate the $10,000 reporting requirement.
That's their whole plan, by the way, to stop money laundering.
Is that thing you sign on the airplane, right?
Do you have $10,000?
No.
And then that's their plan.
So in Canada, the credit unions, now there's a weird thing that goes along with this.
It's just corporate structure.
We're not able to corporatize to the head office compliance for what we call FinTrack
in Canada, what you call FinSan in the United States, the FATIF umbrella.
So this was a political wedge issue for us because what was happening was small, rural,
usually agricultural state chartered banks were saying, instead of a loan officer, we've
got to hire another compliance officer because we can't use a head office compliance thing.
So we didn't know anything about it other than Parisian morons telling country people
what to do.
And that's what we call a wedge issue in politics, right?
So you're like, let's drive a wedge into that and make this into a big problem because
we like the idea of some UN thing telling small town Canadians what to do and we're
going to stop it, right?
So that was kind of the point.
And what I ended up finding out in this investigation was a year-long study.
This was in 2012.
We almost were ready to destroy FinTrack, root and stem at the time.
We politically thought it was just terrible and they didn't do anything, they didn't
catch criminals.
I got both parties are liberal and conservative, so you're a Democrat and Republican, to both
agree they were useless because they could see there was nothing actually happening,
right?
They were not prosecuting anyone.
And liberals and Democrats would have a heart string and the way we pulled it was this small
town people getting ground to the ground by Canadian banks.
So we had everybody on board and I'm telling you I was that close to destroying it.
They had to do a private meeting where I wasn't allowed because I was whispering in every one
of the senator's ears about this and that and they knew it was a big problem.
So I was banned by the lobbyists from entering in there, but it didn't matter because during
that investigation I'd already learned about Bitcoin.
And that's all I was thinking about.
That's it.
Like someone laughed in a testimony like, where do you see this next thing?
And I was like, what's the next thing?
What are you talking about?
And so in 2013, I got them to do a study on Bitcoin.
We brought Andreas Antonopoulos to testify.
It was a huge, huge hit.
People watched it all around the world.
We didn't try to approach it as what about the criminality?
We ignored that.
We were like, other people have done that.
What are we really dealing with here and is it as big as it could possibly hint at?
And so I got sort of permission from our prime minister in Canada at the time, Pierre
Palliver, who I think is running for leadership, was also around at the time and saying, well,
maybe, maybe, you know, might as well look at the benefits of separating money and state.
It was those gang, it was that gang in charge of the country at the time.
And weirdly, the prime minister at the time, his son, who I knew when he was a little boy,
is now a derivatives trader with Luxor.
He's a complete and total maximalist.
He's hilarious.
He's like 25 years old or something.
And I remember he was a kid.
I was like throwing the football on his lawn.
So there you go.
These people have all sort of come to it.
Now what happened was at the time, I was pretty sure Justin Trudeau was going to scam his
way into being the prime minister.
So I said, we finished the study.
I did a cool publicity trick where I used the opera turn script to hash the report into
Bitcoin's blockchain simultaneous to our publishing of the report.
And so it's in there.
It's Satoshi's invention deserves a light regulatory touch block 36,000 something, something
from back in 2015.
And weirdly, I had the original co-working space where Ethereum was created.
They helped engage this for me.
So that's a whole another story.
I was living in Toronto at this time and I would travel back and forth between Ottawa
where our capital was.
And I used to do rideshare for people right out of car and I would get 30 bucks or whatever.
And because I didn't get no one was paying for my travel.
It was all sort of on my own.
And this would have been early 2014.
And I saw a Bitcoin sign outside of a store where I was meeting people to get on the highway
and go.
And I thought I was the only human who knew about Bitcoin around here.
And I walked in and there was Vitalik.
He had just started Bitcoin magazine or he had started it two years ago and was writing
articles.
And he was just about to come out.
It was about a year and a bit before the actual network launch, but he was just doing Bitcoin
magazine articles at the time and talking about this other thing and everyone was just
kind of there.
And so I chatted with everyone and when I finally released the report a year later, I quit my
job.
Obviously they were going to start a retirement.
There's nothing stupid after.
And I was like, no, no, no, no, I'm good.
It's Bitcoin forever.
So this was the time.
So I went and worked at that co-working space for a little while and it was the original
ATM of Toronto.
So that's where all the drug dealers, Silk Road folks were getting there.
We didn't care what people were doing back then, obviously, right?
The machine sold Bitcoin and that was it.
And you could buy and sell it.
There was a big lineup to sell it and we did our business and it funded the whole business
and it was great.
But at the same time, CoinDesk in America was in, now this was the bear market 2014
and 2015 are still, I think, they were as bad as the bear that we just went from.
They were, you could see the bottom.
You could see like if a few things went a little wrong and sketchy, it might have all
been over, right?
So we were pretty low down there and what happened was CoinDesk was finished, basically.
They couldn't keep paying the bills.
So DCG acquired them.
But they were actually started, CoinDesk was started in London and when Barry bought it,
he said, forget it.
It's not going to be in London anymore.
It's got to be in New York.
So I joined the original team that was put together in early 2016 that ended up building
the American version of CoinDesk that you would have seen for years.
So I ended up sort of falling into events, which was a pretty neat little niche.
I think I created the Wall Street version.
You can you can blame me for that.
All this Wall Street shit.
Basically I knew Andreas had the market cornered on everybody and that there was a niche little
market of education evangelist stuff in Wall Street.
So that ended up being what I did.
So I ended up going on all the fake news shows CNN was there a hack?
The price is up.
The price is down.
Oh, it's the same story every day, but it was fun because he got the black car service
and they drove you and you do the TV shows and this and that.
So that was all good.
But you know, as you go on and and as CoinDesk grew as a company and and I did the show
and would have been right after the 2017 Thanksgiving weekend.
If you remember, everyone was going crazy about Bitcoin that weekend.
We had our show.
We just hit the nail on the head.
It was the first day Bitcoin hit $10,000 live on our stage and I still I'll never forget
the headline.
It's like waking up and doing it because the show is literally on Broadway, right?
So the show was on Broadway and it was the original show where before that before 2017,
if you'd say I'm doing a Bitcoin show, someone on Wall Street would say I'm not an engineer.
I'm not a tech guy.
I was the first person who said to them, no, no, no, no, no, no, we don't care.
You know, if you understand hashrate as a key price indicator, you're good to go.
We want to we want to do a show in Wall Street vocabulary.
We don't want to meet them halfway.
We want to go to where they are and try to break this down in language they understand
without getting into the complicated aspects of cryptography and engineering and crypto
economics and we don't need any of that.
We just need the nuts and bolts.
What does this mean for Wall Street?
Let's go.
And so we programmed a show and it was so successful.
You couldn't get in.
It was a big thing.
And I'll never forget the headlines.
CNBC has a headline.
It's Bitcoin crosses $10,000 packed conference parties into the night.
I mean, you can't beat that kind of a headline.
It's just not possible.
You know what I mean?
You wake up and you have a hit Broadway show like that.
It's pretty much the greatest feeling in the world, you know?
So we did pretty well.
But of course, as you imagine, Coin Desk has other priorities and that's all fine.
I never had a problem with their other priorities.
I was in a lane.
It was going great.
But I had the opportunity in 2019 to exit, you know, in a beneficial way, let's say.
I still stayed on as advisor, but now I could start focusing on things that I wanted to
focus on more, which was Bitcoin only and Bitcoin related things.
You know, because of course, Bitcoin provides a sort of worldview versus crypto, which I
don't mind.
I'm not an anti-crypto person, but it's baseball cards.
It's Pokemon, right?
It literally is the same Pokemon.
People will say, you know, Bitcoin is Pokemon, but in the case of crypto, I believe it is.
There's nothing wrong with that.
Pokemon's great, right?
I don't know if I'm a Pokemon.
Love me some Pokemon.
Yeah, I love some Pokemon.
Yeah.
Gotta catch them all, man.
Gotta catch them all.
But Bitcoin, of course, is something else entirely.
It's the basis of a worldview.
It's something as an event programmer, which is what I do now with Bitcoin Magazine at
the program, the Bitcoin Magazine events, the canvas is everything under the sun, right?
It's not just the areas of cryptography or computer science or scaling.
That's all interesting.
I still program that stuff.
It was the blind spot I had going into this in those early years that I described earlier
was cryptography.
So I devoted myself to being a student of cryptography for several years.
So you had to do that back in those days if you wanted to enter the industry.
You really had to have chops, let's say, in just cryptography outside of Bitcoin.
You had to know what hashing really was.
You had to understand those things.
So as in total graphs, you just had to have an understanding of what was going on behind
just the markets and all that stuff.
So you had to have an understanding of the cryptography.
So I spent good two years.
I couldn't teach the stuff.
I'm not even at that level, but I'm capable of understanding what someone's talking about
and referencing and things like that.
So when you go into these Bitcoin-only events, of course, you start being able to get into
political things, psychological things.
You can start programming lifestyle.
You can start programming what Bitcoin has taught us about diets and health.
So you start being able to use contrast a lot more to describe fiat and Bitcoin.
And that's how you're able to drive down to that worldview level.
So that's what I'm interested in doing.
That's my sort of Bitcoin-only path.
It's not against anything else.
It's just literally Bitcoin is so much more interesting and so much more relevant.
And there's so much more to talk about and plan.
I saw this last year at our event, people I even program, Udi and Eric Wall going on.
All the other crypto shows are solving the world's problems.
You guys are doing nothing.
And I'm like, wait a minute, we're dispelling fake news about global warming.
We're showing that everyone who relies on fiat information sources are NPCs.
They're the stupidest people in the world, including Ethereum and crypto bros and all
that other stuff.
You can lump them all into that NPC crowd.
So the ability to see that contrast is what attracted me to programming these Bitcoin
events.
And then I do a daily show called The Breakup.
We do The Breakup every morning, which is exactly that.
It's a method of contrasting fiat fake news and the fears and wants that it's desired
to induce with the Bitcoin incentive model.
And you don't have to do anything more than that.
Just put contrast there.
You don't have to explain it to people.
You don't have to say why Bitcoin's better.
None of that.
I basically start every show with a segment I call Moscow Time, because of course the
fiat world is so ridiculous and absurd, you can't actually tell the difference between
reality and humor.
They've blended.
They're the same thing.
And so I just read headlines from the fake news and I don't add any context.
I don't add anything else other than exercising too much and eating steak will kill you and
don't go out in the sun.
And why inflation is a good thing.
I mean, that one's been that one.
I get to get that headline at least once a month.
Why inflation is really great.
And why inflation when it's bad is your fault.
Oh, that was the best view.
That is like your fault is awesome.
It's unreal and I appreciate the background because I always find that to be just it's
fascinating because Bitcoiners are such a truly and I mean this in the genuine sense
of the word diverse group of humans from all walks of life from all over the world, all
different backgrounds.
It is not a fake fiat diversity of we'll put the right number of tokens, you know, token
representations here and here and here and now we have look, we did a diversity.
No, it's the diversity that comes from something emergent and something that allows people
to freely opt in versus being prescribed.
And I think that's beautiful.
So I'm always curious about people's backgrounds and how they wound up where they are today.
And I find that with Bitcoiners, the story is always fascinating and has, you know, now
I know who to blame for, you know, Wall Street Bitcoin.
Like, so if you're listening, you know, you son of a bitch, yeah, how could you know,
but you know, Bitcoin is for anyone, right?
Maybe not for everyone, but for anyone.
And I want to poke at a couple of things because I love your perspective doing the breakup
because I think it's, again, it's not telling people what to think.
It is giving them things to think about and allowing them to draw their own conclusions,
which often are self-evident if you have a few extra brain cells to rub together.
Not everyone does, apparently.
But you're working on a new book now and you've put out a couple of books in the past.
But I wonder if we can talk about that a little because I just listened to the audio version
that you had put together and it's the Bitcoiners guide for the 2024 election, right?
And I loved your framing of it and specifically talking about the medic warfare and super
prompting and this, what did you say?
Was it engage and amplify or?
Gauge and amplify, yeah.
That's a good one.
Yeah.
Okay.
I love that and I love that framing of a way to engage.
Can you talk about that a little bit and kind of how you, what brought you around to pursuing
that perspective?
Well, remember you said earlier about the Wall Street people and their Bitcoiners too
and it's sort of what I'm thinking about these days.
I guess you can say it this way.
The people who came to Bitcoin early, the people who arrived at where you arrived, where
I arrived, it's not necessarily an IQ or an information problem.
It could be something you noticed that was wrong in the world.
So it's not necessarily a test of intelligence, right?
It's not necessarily that.
I know a lot of dumb Bitcoiners.
That's fine.
I love the low IQ, 80 IQ plebs, right?
But let's be honest, the people who can rub two cells together are already there.
They already learned.
They already know what's going on, right?
So that's why a lot of Bitcoin outreach or orange pilling, I guess it's called, seems
to think that it's like an information problem.
Like they just didn't hear about it.
So you get a lot of nagging, like, you just got a new about central banks.
No one wants to fucking know about central banks.
We've made people, Fiat has spellbound them to such an extent that the black magic of
it leaves them absolutely, they don't even want to hear it.
I mean, they're allergic to the news, right?
So we're not dealing with an information problem.
We're not dealing with an IQ problem.
That's generally how it's been approached until now.
At this stage, now there are people who are about to come like the Wall Street folks.
They have the best educators in the world sell these ETFs.
I mean, salesmen are also educators.
So they now have an army of people and they're going to make it.
I mean, they're going to make it.
They have the high IQ, the energy people, right?
They're not hypnotized by Fiat climate science fears.
So they're fine.
They're going to make it, right?
They're a big part of it.
But this idea that the Bitcoin revolution runs through every pleb who somehow was orange
pilled is kind of a dead end street, right?
People just aren't smart enough.
That's the problem, right?
It's not an IQ problem.
It is that they've been spellbound and hypnotized and they are under delusions.
And so how do you break through the delusions?
Arrogance don't work.
You can show me, you can show me any statistic you want on COVID in any direction.
And I'll think you're an idiot.
If you're going to convince me in 2024 with data, fucking data, all the data is shit.
There is no data about anything except one data point in the world, which is the Bitcoin
blockchain.
And that's literally the only useful data left because the incentives have hollowed
out every other incentive structure out there that would allow us to have any confidence
in the data.
Everyone's making money and you can't tell how, so you can't trust the data.
It might be right.
I don't know if it's right.
It's not trustworthy.
It's not credible, right?
So super prompting really works to, instead of an argument, what you do is you basically
punch someone in the face argumentatively or in a context, right?
Like I love stupid presidents.
I voted for Joe Biden five times, right?
Now, I love Donald Trump and I've loved Donald Trump since 2015, right?
But genuinely as a Bitcoiner, when I stop and look at 2020, the best case scenario for
us was a stolen election and a mentally ill and dementia head president.
I mean, it's the best possible outcome because what you get is the true sense now that we
don't, that's not the leader of the free world.
We haven't had civilian control of the US military in 50 years.
I mean, it's a joke, right?
So can you explain that to someone or can you get them to understand it themselves?
When you super prompt, when I say to someone, no, no, I voted for Joe Biden five times.
They say, what?
And I say, yeah, yeah, he's the best, you know?
But oh, you think I want him to do the job?
No, I'm a Bitcoin.
I don't give a fuck.
What are you talking about?
Let it burn.
Fuck it's hilarious.
Joe Biden's the president.
Yee-haw.
Woo.
So if you play that game, it's just like elections, right?
It's like elections.
Like, everyone is pessimistic about what's going on in America, but it's a good thing.
All elections in all 50 states work great.
Nothing else works.
I can't go buy an iPhone at a cell phone store.
I can't do that.
You can't.
Have you tried to buy a phone in America at a phone store?
It is a circus of incompetency, of stupid bureaucracy.
I mean, I've laughed about this and then people, they think I'm joking.
And then they go to buy a phone.
You can't go to the Apple store and buy a phone.
They don't know what happens.
They don't know how to complete the transaction.
They don't know where the phones are.
They don't know any of this stuff.
They're just incompetence, right?
And Apple stores are the best.
Go to Best Buy and buy a phone there.
You can't.
You just can't do it.
So the point is, you're not going to be able to convince people through arguing that this
works.
You've got to really treat them like the NPCs they are.
It's not an information problem.
It's a frame problem.
And these are high IQ people.
What they need is the spell, the fiat dark magic to be broken.
My other book, The Bitcoiner's Guide to NPC Management, is explicitly about this.
It's explicitly about removing the scales from their eyes and prompting them into this
engaged situation where they're sort of figuring it out for themselves, right?
Because that's what you've got to do.
Now, when you have the cognitive dissonance that super prompts are designed to create,
that's the embrace and amplify piece, right?
For example, another one that Bitcoiners should embrace.
I don't know why they don't, right?
I hear people saying, UBI is so dumb.
Oh, UBI, we can't do that.
We can't print more money.
Yes, we fucking can.
Print it.
Let's go.
Give it to all the fat people.
I don't want a fat chain, but give it to them.
Accelerate.
Give them the money.
Accelerate, right?
If someone wants to sign up for a CVDC, why should I stop them?
It's none of my business.
I mean, if they want to live like that, I used to believe we could all make it.
Then COVID came, and I'm sure we can't.
Now, we're in a middle state in the same way that, and this is the UBI sort of argument
for Bitcoiners, right?
You look at El Salvador.
El Salvador is experiencing what we call bimetalism.
Bimetalism was what we had in America before the Federal Reserve was created.
It was silver on gold.
We're going to see the Wizard of Oz come out again in 2024.
They've remade Wizard of Oz.
It's obviously going to be shit, but the original, not the movie, the original book, it wasn't
Ruby Red Slippers.
It was Silver Slippers on a gold road.
The point of this is the book came out in the 1890s and was about the fight before the
banking cartel was created in 1912.
DC is the Emerald City.
The bankers are the witches.
They send the people out to get stuff.
It's a quid pro quo.
You do something for me.
You're one of the bankers, which is what happened.
Populism came with the silver and created such a ruckus in the market that there was
a demand for a central bank and lender of last resort from then on.
You take that bimetalism point of view and you say, well, if we're going back to the
gold standard, we might have to go to it the way we came to it, which was this period of
first bimetalism before we arrived at pure fiat.
If we turn the polarity back, maybe in 80 years, we can have only sound money in the
world.
Maybe when we really just crush fiat into the ground and it's nothing but bone dust.
Yeah, maybe.
But first and foremost, we can create this division where we explicitly make political
money what it should be, food stamps.
It should be.
We can create fiat, actual policy money, really political money for people who need it.
And I think that's an easier way because look, as Bitcoiners, we don't.
The fiat sludge people are going to need help.
We can't have this appetite where everybody dies and it's a Bitcoin Mad Max world.
My version of a world on Bitcoin has enough empathy and compassion that every person who
needs help.
The point of Bitcoin is to start being more efficient with our capital and understanding
that we can actually take care of everyone.
This isn't survival of the fittest.
This isn't Darwinian.
We're the opposite of Darwinian and that whole thing that came in with Darwinian evolution
and survival of the fittest and blah, blah, blah.
I don't buy it for a minute.
I don't buy it.
I don't buy that humans are like that.
We're not an animal.
We can make the weakest amongst us capable of enjoying their lives.
I think that's something all Bitcoiners should aspire to.
If we have to do it with some money printing for now while we wind down this thing, so
be it.
Other people can already move to Bitcoin and protect their wealth and preserve their ability
to save and getting it back to the low IQ job that saving money used to be.
It used to be good at a thing and I saved my money.
If you save your money in 2024, you're an idiot.
You're the dumbest person I know.
You're fucked.
You are really fucked.
I think that's such an important point that is lost to so many that are completely brainwashed
in the fiat world.
We've been taught that somehow in order, when you make money, you can't just sit on that
money.
You have to invest that money and make your money work for you and by buying real estate,
by buying stocks, by being really, really super smart or if you're not super smart,
costing somebody to handle your money for you and make sure you put everything you can
into a 401K because then you'll be set for retirement even though the returns that 401K
is making are probably not even keeping up with inflation.
It's tracking the most mediocre basket of goods that it possibly can when it comes to
stocks.
The idea that you should be able to work hard to be a productive member of society to bring
value to the market and have the market say, yep, what they're doing is valuable.
They should be paid for it.
And then to take the fruits of your labor and save them without needing to go through
a bunch of fucking financial gymnastics just to be able to tread water because the purchasing
power of your wealth is being inflated away by a bunch of people who think, well, why
are you complaining?
The economy's fine.
We just got the recent cooked book numbers and everything looks hunky dory.
No, you should be able to work hard at something and to not have to jump through hoops to save
the value of your energy and of your expended time across the space of time.
And it used to be the case and you can very much see that in the standard of livings around
the world.
But as an American, I'll speak about America.
My grandfather was a minister, did not make a lot of money, obviously he was a minister,
but saved and was frugal and was able to retire and provide a great life for my grandmother
long after he passed away, for decades after he passed away on a minister's salary.
This was also if you worked in manufacturing, I did some time at General Electric Appliance
in a past fiat life.
And when I was working there, I was listening to stories of people who had been there.
I was managing people on the assembly line who had been at that job longer than I'd
been alive at that point.
They'd been there for 35 years.
But it was incredible to hear their stories about back in the day.
Wow, these people still make good money, especially if they'd been there for that many years because
they just their rates kept going up.
They actually did fairly well, all things considered, but what they made just didn't
go as far anymore.
And they were all able to buy really nice houses and have a single parent working while
the mom stayed at home and provide a really wonderful life for their families.
Working a job and saving their money and they weren't brilliant stock investors.
They just worked hard.
They did something that was valuable and needed, making appliances and provided a wonderful
life and a comfortable life for their family.
You cannot do that anymore.
We're at a place where you need to have both parents working just to tread water.
And if you want to get ahead a little, maybe you need a second job.
One of you needs a second job, but oh, because you're both working also, you've got to pay
for daycare.
And that's only getting more expensive, right?
And so people are stuck in this just hamster wheel cycle.
And again, this is the, a lot of them perhaps through no fault of their own per se, you
know, everyone's eyes are closed until, until they're open, right?
And it's very easy for us who have our eyes open to look and say, well, why don't you
see it yet?
But you don't see it until you see it.
It sounds, you know, cliche, but it's true.
And so we have to have some compassion for these people.
But sometimes to bring them around to it, the approach that you're suggesting with kind
of punching them in the face with this absurdist argument, almost satirical argument, I think
is a very, a very good way to go about it.
Cause it makes them just, even if it makes them just stop for a second and say, hold
the fuck on.
Wait, that doesn't make any sense.
And then they realize what you're saying is what's said in all seriousness by them and
their friends and the politicians they like.
And then they say, hold on.
Well, that's kind of ridiculous.
Now that you put it that way.
It's those little clicks.
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Yeah, and that's the psychology.
That's what psychology and arguments and information are not exactly the same thing.
You know, with money as debt the way it is, like you said, it's not their fault.
It is a form of black magic.
It's a form of hypnosis.
If you can define by controlling the money what people are afraid of, because of course
what propagates the fiat network is the fake news, right?
If the fake news wasn't in the bag and the aircraft carriers weren't in the bag, none
of it would propagate.
Right?
So you got the aircraft carriers, but most importantly, right?
Fiat tells you exactly what it is.
It's dictate.
It's dictates from the government and that's money.
And what that ended up doing as far as I can tell, not only defining the fears and wants,
which is how to simulate reality.
I mean, you can literally define reality to people if you make them afraid and and and
covetous of things and wanting things.
You can give root key access, right?
And that's why I constantly compare the psychological engines behind fiat and the outcomes it produced.
You can understand the purpose of a machine by what it produces.
And Bitcoin incentives seem to create these situations where indeed, again, you can have
a basic job and you're good at it.
But now because we've lowered the threshold to participate in saving, you can be focusing
on the job and not saving.
And indeed, I mean, that's really the main difference I see with the crypto people that
I've seen from the beginning.
I was lucky enough to be able to perceive this from the very beginning.
I had these arguments in 2014 with the people that I was with who were creating Ethereum.
And what I would say to them, I'd say, OK, what I'm not understanding here, guys, right?
What I don't really get, like I don't get what you're trying to do.
Now what I want is a world where we get into the root key access of people's brains and
we change their time preference and then we make saving easy.
We we don't want.
The last thing we want is the best and brightest who will always go into the highest paid jobs.
That's reality, right?
The best and brightest that you can't stop the natural progression of those people, the
natural attraction they'll have to the highest paid jobs.
It's just reality, right?
Bitcoin accepts reality as it is.
So if we had a whole generation where financial engineering was the best job, when these crypto
people try and tell me that, you know, we don't know, it's not enough financial engineering.
You got to get a series seven license.
You got to know everything about all of the market manipulations in Wall Street, but
you got to run an EVM fucking node and you got to do the flash bots, you know, minor
extracted value, the MEV and you got to you got to be a computer scientist on top of it.
So it's not going to be good enough that you have a series seven license on Wall Street.
It's not going to be good enough that you'd experience at a prop shop in Chicago.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
We're going to add to this esoteric crypto knowledge that's all made up and mostly just
complexity theater and you got to memorize the complexity theater because because, right?
So again, that's the contrast.
Fiat is and crypto have that in common, right?
They think that if you just put the best and brightest into one location, they'll fix everything.
It's a very top down way to see things, right?
Now, with Bitcoin, all we're really doing is lowering the threshold to participate in
the economy effectively.
That's it.
There's nothing more complicated than that.
But that's all we need.
I mean, that's literally all we need now because we're feeling the effects of what we did and
it's a disaster out there.
It's just a disaster.
We can tell psychologically the trouble people are having has nothing to do with smartphones.
Well, it does in a sense because it's given people that dopamine addiction, the outrage
addiction, but that was already all fueled with a low time preference of money being
debt and credit issued by the government.
That's what's got this root key access and created these actual NPCs, these actual black
magic hypnotized zombies.
And so I don't know any other way.
And I've seen it work, right?
If you, you know, you got to think about what Trump does.
Now, Trump goes a little far in that he creates mental illness, right?
He's already dealing with mentally ill and mentally handicapped people.
And that is his weakness in a sense, right?
It's also his number one strength, the things he says, the way he says them, it lights people's
brains on fire.
I mean, it absolutely lights the brains on fire.
But that's the type of cognitive innocence.
Not everyone's going to like it when they have these thoughts that say, well, wait a
minute, my whole worldview is wrong, right?
So that's the issue here.
Now, Trump has his way of doing it.
You know, I continue to predict.
I know there was a fake news story that said Vivek won't be his vice president.
I think he will be.
I think it's pretty much in the bag.
He he does everything stupid of him, not to.
Very stupid.
Honestly.
Yeah, very stupid.
So, uh, I'll go ahead.
I just need the tension there.
I just I just see the the complete package there because I don't find my as someone who
just said I was a Trump 2015 all the way, never doubted, except for Billy Bush Sunday that
he was going to lose Billy Bush Sunday.
Uh, parties over, you know, but then he came back and he brought the crazy people that
Clinton had raped or something to the fucking debate, like just madness, right?
Absolute hilarious madness.
And he's a showman.
Whatever, whatever, whatever you think of Trump, because I think the Trump is also he
personifies so many of the negative aspects of fiat in many ways.
Now I'm I don't think that Trump is is the devil like many people do.
I don't think Joe Biden's the devil either.
I think they're both just human beings, uh, with different levels of cognitive ability,
different levels of ego, narcissism and capability.
And I what I struggle with is, and this is something I say ad nauseam to the point where
Carla is like, ah, you got to stop saying that so much, but there is no red, there is
no blue, there is the state and there is you.
And now, of course, and Mark Moss rightly called me on this the other day saying, well,
you know, you can't entirely say that across the board because obviously we do see at a
more decentralized level at a state level, we do see very big differences between red
states and blue states, right?
In terms of, for instance, during COVID, what states people were leaving and what states
they were flocking to undeniably.
But when I say this, I mean it from the top level perspective of that presidential seat
because so much time and attention is spent focusing on that president and rightly so
it's supposed to be the leader of the free world.
But when do we see truly meaningful differences?
President to president like Trump printed ungodly amounts of money after, you know,
an appointed Jerome Powell, Biden has printed ungodly amounts of money and also kept Jerome
Powell in office.
I mean, M2 actually shrank slightly.
I describe him with a hostage.
Poor guy, you know, yeah, like blink twice if you need to get out.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've heard about your own talk.
It's because he's got one where they asked him about the bricks and the dollar and he
says, yeah, yeah, yeah.
As long as America remains a rules-based country, we have nothing to worry about.
Yeah, it's like as blink, Morse code SOS blinks.
Yeah, but I actually I want to I want to go back onto one thing you said earlier because
I think it's really important as you were differentiating, let's say a Bitcoin or mindset
versus a fiat and PC or crypto mindset.
And that is in terms of I think what you were getting toward is the hubris of the fiat
mind and the crypto in quotes, crypto mind.
When it comes to, oh, if we just get enough of the smartest people in a room together,
we can just tell the economy what it should do.
We can just dictate how much money should be printed.
We can just dictate what the interest rates are.
We can dictate the amount of new money that's in circulation.
We can dictate the new tokens that we issue in the crypto sense.
But to go to the fiat sense is this idea that, well, the poor people.
They don't know any better.
So it's up to us, the anointed in our in our back rooms to make these decisions for them.
And if we just engineer the economy, just right, everything will be perfect.
We'll we'll figure it out.
And oh, sure, it literally we've never been able to do that ever.
But maybe this time, you know, just one more boom and bust cycle, one more boom and bust,
and we'll get it right.
Whereas the Bitcoiner mentality is just back the fuck away, you us you as a singular individual
or you as a group of people are never going to be smarter than the 8 billion plus people
who make up the free market, the market that should be free.
You cannot have all of the information that 8 billion people making independent decisions,
judging value subjectively in their own best interest are going to make.
And by trying to engineer it, you just lead to what we see, which is repeated boom and
bust cycles, run up, run down, run up, run down.
And it's not the people who are making these decisions who ultimately get hurt.
And we certainly know they don't go to jail.
We saw that after 2008, right?
It's the people who are working at a factory job, who are who are working at any sort of
job that does not place them in close proximity to the money printer.
They're the ones who get hurt just for trying to do something well, to provide value and
to make a decent life for their family.
And they're repeatedly screwed because we have a bunch of fucking bureaucrats who think
they know better than the free market.
And that's that distinction that I think you were you were getting at there.
And it's, it's frustrating to to see because it's just hubris.
It's just hubris on their part.
This is one of the reasons why people like me in the same way that I joked about voting
for Biden five times, it's the same reason why in 2015 and 2016, I love Trump.
The job of president needed to be changed.
And if it became this TV celebrity fiat guy, it didn't matter.
It was taking it out of the frame that it had been for so long.
And Obama would be the great example of that, like all these weighted speeches, Harvard,
Alprompters, be careful what you say.
But why do we have to care about the president to that extent?
I mean, it's a made up job.
It has been practiced based on the times and customs of the era.
The problem is we just inherited a World War II president and then we had the Cold War
after and we never changed the job description.
We just kept running them the same way.
What they said on the news mattered and how what, you know, the news covered what they
said.
So the whole thing really from that time was what my original backing of Trump was.
It wasn't because I thought he was going to be like, you know, inspire everyone to come
together and have great policies.
Even though he was successful and I predicted he would be successful in whatever he did.
He did some good stuff and some bad stuff.
I wasn't in it for the policies.
I was in it for the shock already then as a Bitcoin or I was already thinking strategically
in the sense that how are we going to run this revolution?
It can't be with a competent president.
We don't want that.
We want chaos.
We literally want everyone to be arguing because it's a time of change and Trump was
change in the same reason why I embraced Joe Biden in 2020.
It wasn't the mean tweets.
It was the corruption that I wanted the corruption.
The corruption was an even better way to push the job along.
Like when Trump was there, you'd still be afraid of the president.
What can they do?
The president of the USA Inc. and the completely made up federal government that we don't even
need and that has to be liquidated and shrunk and turned into exactly what Vivek is talking
about.
Motosierra, the Mele Plan.
It's got to be the Texas Motosierra Massacre.
They've got to just go and get rid of all these people.
But we're seeing it already.
I think Texas is going to be a real great example.
Whatever way things go in the 2024 elections, doesn't matter.
Biden, Trump, Kennedy, we don't know.
It doesn't matter.
Texas has already assumed its sovereignty of the border.
It's never giving that up.
It's never going to create a confusing situation where the federal government and the Texan
men are going to be staring each other down.
All men who understand violence know that they're not even going to put them in that
position.
It's never happening.
Texas owns its border forever.
They're never getting rid of that, ever.
If you look deep into Texas, if you look deep into what Texas actually is, it's a little
bit similar to my home state of Vermont in that you had the original 13 colonies and
then you had Wisconsin, which came as part of the territorial expansion formula.
But Texas and Vermont joined the Union as nations.
They joined it as countries, actual countries.
That was the way America was originally started.
Before the Civil War, you would have said the United States are.
After the Civil War, you'd have said the United States is.
After World War II, you started saying the Fed is or the government is.
We're going to switch that here in this World War III, which is really just a continuation
of World War I and World War II, which are really just wars about how to finance war.
That's all it was.
We haven't stopped that war.
We have not stopped it.
We haven't stopped the job of president, as I said, is still this commander of the military
industrial complex, which was set up for whatever reason to win World War II the way it was
done.
We never shut off the aircraft carriers.
We never shut off any of it.
We just kept it all running.
The point of the country, the business of the country is war.
It is.
That's what makes these new presidents that are incompetent or different or not behold
into the old ways or whatever Trump is.
Interesting for Bitcoiners because it's showing that the actual republic is changing and that
it's organic.
Go back to Texas for a second.
I'll finish the thought on that.
When the border situation happened, you know, because Texas is a country, they still have
the ability to mint their own non-fiat money that can't be fractionally reserved lent.
They have a constitutional right in their own sovereignty to issue money.
Now, they say it's got to be gold backed and some form of collateralized money.
I don't think it's limiting in the sense that they can't take their energy system and do
something like a volcano bond, which is a mix of Bitcoin and their actual energy reserves,
and they can issue that because they're not going to want to absorb the USA Inc's disastrous
Fed Reserve balance sheet that's about to become more toxic than ever.
This year has this ability and so do all of the United States.
There's nothing we need to change about the Constitution.
There's no divorce coming.
You don't need divorce when everyone is sovereign and the nations are all sovereign.
The states are sovereign.
All we need psychologically is to change our point of view and start saying the United
States are again.
That's where Bitcoiners are going to come in.
Bitcoiners have a decentralized outlook.
They have a desire to have sovereignty closer to the individual and shrink the size of the
country, you start getting closer to that individual sovereignty.
We as Bitcoiners who have been around can already feel and express that individual sovereignty.
That's something that I've, why I do my show and why I write the books as someone who's
been a Bitcoiner psychologically for, this is my 11th year as a professional in the industry,
when this is all I think about and do and it hasn't, the way you're compelled to join
never changes and participate.
It's just always interesting.
It's always, I didn't know that.
What's going on?
Oh my goodness.
You're always interested and involved and you always know which path would be good for
Bitcoin and politics are a part of that.
Now, I don't need, if you saw in the book, there's no, if we vote for this guy, we'll
get our way.
There's literally any scenario is fine.
It doesn't really matter.
Everything is good for Bitcoin, right?
Everything is good for Bitcoin.
Some is slower, some is faster.
Like I said, the only one you really don't want is Hillary, but Joe Biden, if you're
an accelerationist, there isn't a better, there's no better candidate.
I mean, really, like if you want to just get it done, right?
Like just plung us into chaos because it's the most disgusting.
It's the most death, right?
I'd say, depending on what Trump does, you're going to get a lot of people killing themselves,
you're going to get mass Canadian healthcare distributed everywhere to people who have,
you know, these, the orange man's back, unless Vivek can smooth that over.
I think Kennedy is probably the best choice for the psychological state of the country
in a sense, you know, not necessarily better in a way because you're going to be listening
to a lot of people with mental illness and confusing their political opinions for politics
when it's just mental illness induced by the unbelievable toxic amounts of propaganda
they consume in order to perpetuate the fiat industrial complex or the fiat component of
the military industrial complex.
So you can see the toxic levels of brainwashing.
You can see the mental illness all around.
That's to support the dollar.
Trump is a bit accelerationist in that way.
I think Kennedy might be able to, to rein it all in.
We'll see.
It's kind of a monarchist approach, which I think most Bitcoiners have an appetite for.
We understand why monarchy is what it is and it's a low time preference mindset for leadership.
We've heard, of course, Prince Philip and Serbia explain this many times at Bitcoin
events and, you know, he's got to think about his relatives.
He saw what Fiat did to his family and he's learned a lot from it.
And if he is compelled to be the king of Serbia for whatever reason, it'll be with this kind
of stuff in mind, right?
The doing what's best for your society because that's how you reward your own children by
having a healthy world for them.
And that's really what Kennedy is up to, right?
He is a royal.
He is a type of monarch and he's out there sort of promoting a kind of no bless oblige
for America.
And he's on all the right policies.
I mean, Bitcoiners understand exactly what he's talking about with health, right?
If people ate better, they would be far less easy to hypnotize with fiat and then it would
be a big problem.
But if we didn't have obesity as bad as it is, we would have a lot fewer brainwashed
sludge people in America and that would be a good thing, right?
It's so true.
I put out a, I was quoting or quote noting American hotel on on No Study the other day
because he was just basically saying like, we have a we have a mental illness pandemic.
Like that's the real pandemic is mental illness and it was accelerated by COVID.
And you see people that are still like masking outside occasionally.
If you ever find that weird subsection of Twitter that's like, we're still masking,
you're like, oh, I go to Canada.
Oh, dear Lord.
People in the world, in the world, there's nothing like them.
It's insane.
But I quoted that saying like, it's insane to me that nowhere in the world really and
certainly not in the US, do you see public health messaging being, you know what, go
outside as much as you can, walk as much as you can, drink plenty of water, get some exercise.
But even if you can just go walk, you know what, that's a great start.
And try to eat foods that are not over processed and packaged and served to, you know, combined
up into mush and then printed into the shape that you like with the textures that trigger
the right things in your brain and the right amount of, you know, crap just injected into
them.
You don't see that messaging at all.
Certainly not in the US and really, I mean, the food in Europe is marginally better.
Like you can see that when you spend a little bit of.
Getting bad.
Yeah.
It's fiat is infecting it despite long, long standing cultural norms, sadly.
But at least you can still get pretty decent bread at most corner bakeries in most towns
in Europe, which is great.
But in America, like you don't see that messaging.
What did you see the messaging during COVID?
It was, uh, we're going to close down the parks.
We're going to close down the gyms.
So okay, you're closing down the places where people can, and there was no evidence to support
that and not, not even then, no one was making it.
It was just, it was optics, right?
It was optics.
It was well.
I think it was worth, I mean, I think it had a lot.
I think it was everything to do with the election and stuck on that, you know, it was, but either
it was just, and I'm inclined to agree with you, but it was, it was just insanity.
And that level of propaganda just set off so many people that were already near the
breaking point.
And many of them have not come back from that.
And okay, what do you, how do you go forward from that when you're dealing with it?
You know, like, well, you start with, you know, like clean, clean body, clean mind, you know,
but besides these, these Miller lattes here, you know, try to do, like as an individual,
what can you do?
Well, try to go outside and get some sunlight.
Try to take a walk, spend time with your family, with your friends, as much as we are both
very online people.
I think I speak for us both when I say, you know, we prefer the time spent in person always,
you know.
And so, but it is ultimately like people have become so addicted to the actual consumption
of the propaganda itself, because it's this self affirming propaganda that makes them
think, ah, my neuroses is actually warranted and okay, and why doesn't everyone, why isn't
everyone else freaking out about this?
And that's probably going to get worse before it gets better, sadly, like there, it's, it's
going to reach a true breaking point, like you, you saw it during Trump's election, 2016,
like people started to really lose it, you know.
And again, no fan of note, like I'm not a Trump fan here, but I also did not lose my
shit and deteriorate into a subhuman because I thought orange man bad.
So and I don't know, it's, I think it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
This is not something, it's not a light switch, but it's something we can hopefully, again,
through some of that super prompting that you talked about, start to show people like
I'm all about the satirical approach, the absurdist approach.
Just start asking the question of like, every time Elizabeth Warren posts anything or Joe
Biden posts anything about spending on anything, you say, well, we don't need taxes for this
because we just, we can just print the money guys.
You just basically, you take the MMT approach, like you just literally become a.
Yeah.
I'm great.
Do it.
Yes.
Go.
Debt doesn't matter.
Create a government, you know, government deficit is private sector surplus guys.
It makes perfect sense.
Don't think about it too much.
Just print the money and, and let's, let's take this fucking train into the station,
you know.
But yeah, I love MMT.
I'm a huge MT fan for anyone listening.
Yeah.
I don't know anything about it.
I don't care.
All I know is they're going to print like hell and I love it.
Go.
Yeah.
But no, the big thing with M.M.T. is like that they all, you know, Stephanie Kelton's
whole thing, one of the big, you know, messiahs of MMT is like that government deficit is a
private sector surplus.
Like that's how you boost the private sector is by the government spending.
It's like, it's like this insane, and I'm, and I'm being reductionist here.
I'm sure I should read her full book, not just, you know, spark notes versions of it.
So I can truly sing MMT's praises, but it's this like absurdist notion that you need the
government to spend money created out of thin air to create value when in fact that creates
no value that just like subsidies are an absurdity to me.
Subsidies are market distortions.
And anytime I see like any sort of industry being subsidized, it's like, well, like how
did we get so much fiat food?
Well, because we subsidized the fuck out of the corn industry under Nixon and we got
shocker way too much fucking corn, and then we got to figure out what to do with that
corn.
So let's create some industrial lubricants that we then turn into actually human food
lubricants.
And wow, obesity starts to take off around that time too.
Who could have, so it's like these, again, the hubris of people thinking that they know
better than the free market is what so much of it comes down to.
Especially, you know, that's why, again, I always sort of come back to COVID being a
good thing for that because now it's bad for the people who got kind of left behind because
humanity really forked.
I didn't see it coming.
Again, I said earlier, I think we could save everyone with Bitcoin today, you know, all
the plebs in the world.
But then I saw COVID and I went, this is not going to work.
And it's not going to work because not only did they fork now, you just had your first
kid.
I had kids just before COVID.
I had one in 2017 and one in 2019.
But it was fine for me, like I wasn't following any of this stuff.
I was outside, we were in parks.
When New York became insufferable by the summer, we were gone.
And we never to come back.
I could tell it was going to be a hellhole.
I came and didn't manage any of COVID risks.
I didn't manage COVID risks.
I went to like where it was sunny and where they couldn't lock me down and lived my life.
But what I've seen, and it's with kids, you can really see it because these are now, they're
not the same species.
Like these kids, compared to my kids who have grown up outside on a farm and in the Caribbean
are outdoor psychopaths.
You know what I mean?
They're so healthy and all they eat is grass-fed beef and raw milk.
And so you can imagine, these are the happiest full of energy kids you can ever come across.
When I see them with friends they knew in New York when they were born or anywhere, we're
not in the same planet of energy, of happiness, of what kids ought to do.
And I don't think there's any way getting it back.
If you want to look at the sovereign individual thesis and that they say there will be these
mythological superhumans, that's what we got going on here.
I mean, like it's not even in the same planets.
It's not even in the same planets.
And when you look at El Salvador, for example, the only, this is one of the most effective
orange-pilling things out there when you're talking about COVID, is this diet and the
prescriptive health stuff and the incentives.
Only El Salvador said go outside and get exercise.
Only, only Bukele.
Right?
Now, again, I'm not trying to say this leader is going to deliver us or not.
It's just useful for our Bitcoin contrast.
And again, I love to use contrast to explain Bitcoin because it's much better than explaining
Bitcoin is better because you just say, well, this was what they said.
They said, lock up, get a bunch of needles and don't see the sun.
All he said was eat well, exercise, and most people understood that was better.
And if you can't understand that's better, you have separate problems.
But it's an effective orange-pilling thing more than Bukele bought a bunch of Bitcoin,
actually.
Now, that he is a Bitcoiner when you say that after starts to get people's mind going.
That's one of those things where, oh, what?
Wait a minute.
And so it's a really effective tool and the psychology of folks who've embraced that
low-time preference thing in Bitcoin look 20 years younger now.
I mean, when you go to, here's another, I guess, indicator.
So as someone who helped create the CoinDesk show and consensus and it grew into something
very big and great.
I like a lot of it.
I handle all the Bitcoin content there, but I've said this and I don't want to sound
like an asshole when I say it, but it's the truth.
As someone who is very involved in the Bitcoin magazine planning, you just look, the looks
alone of the Bitcoin crowd at the Bitcoin event versus the other crowd.
We're not dealing with the same people here.
I'm not saying everyone's beautiful in Bitcoin, but it is a pleasant looking crowd.
The other one, now again, I don't want to fat shame anyone.
That's not what I'm trying to say.
No one chooses to be unhealthy.
They're hypnotized into it.
I'm totally there.
But what I saw, and that wasn't obvious before COVID.
As someone who went, I went to every ETH event in the world because we were covering it.
I was stealing ideas and things like that.
So I'd been to the old ones, like the original ETH event and ETH2 and ETH3 and blah, blah,
and so they were very similar people.
You couldn't really tell the difference between 2015 and Bitcoiners had their own fucked up
problems.
But after 2020, what I saw was, I don't want to put a name out there, but one, he can handle
it, take Jameson, for example.
His physical health, how much better Jameson Lopp got after the pandemic in 2020 is indicative
of many Bitcoiners.
Many Bitcoiners realized that the health thing was super important.
And so what you see there is really what we're after.
This is a root key access issue.
When you run on a Bitcoin psychological engine, your wants and fears become a little more
easily perceived through Bitcoin and you're able to manage your health outcomes a lot
better than you would under Fiat.
And that's the contrast I like.
Now, it's not totally true what I said.
There are plenty of beautiful people that go to ETH events or whatever.
But what I'm saying, you just look at an aggregate.
You just look at the lineup of people getting a coffee and you're like, yikes.
Whereas if I go to the Bitcoin show, it's like, wow, look at all these beautiful people.
I love it.
Now, again, I'm not trying to be a dick and an asshole about looks and it's not that
important.
And again, I'm 100% not a fat shamer.
I want everyone to be healthy.
I think everyone can.
No one, I'm lucky.
I'm not addicted to food or alcohol.
I have other addictions.
Addiction is the operating system.
It's good to be addicted to healthy things like Bitcoin and stacking sats.
That's a great addiction to have.
Cultivate the stack stacking addiction or the sat stacking addiction.
We are programmed to be addicted to stuff.
There's no avoiding it.
We'll always have our addictions.
We'll always create a dopamine release system.
We'll always want that confirmation and that boost.
The problem with Fiat is that it's running people and their systems down.
It's too quick.
It's too short term.
And it is creating these actual easily tricked, easily hypnotized zombies.
But that's the good news.
If you're a Bitcoin or it's all so easy to trick them.
It's not like they're out there letting the world on fire.
You just got to break through there.
Can you do it very well with your New York Times articles about, you know, that's exactly
the right aesthetic here, right?
It's like cancel the New York Times for printing on paper.
They're just the worst for the environment.
And I believe your thing.
Why would you kill trees to print newspapers in a digital age?
It's insane.
Don't they care about the planet?
I just don't understand it.
Why didn't they turn off their physical printing presses yesterday?
They got new ones just a few years ago, dude.
I was in New York when they got the new ones.
Jesus Christ.
Big spread.
Welcome to the new world of the New York Times.
We got new printers and they tried to push that on everyone.
Obviously, I do not read the New York Times.
I never have.
I've known it was brainwashing for quite a while, but...
I bring stickers with me.
My Stop the Press stickers that I had a bunch of made.
And whenever I'm in airports, because that's the only place I see physical New York Times,
you know, it's like the only place I see CNN on the TV as well.
I'm pretty sure that's all of CNN's viewership is in airports.
But that's beside the point.
But I'll always slap a couple of Stop the Presses, you know, New York Times up stickers
on the physical New York Times when I do see them.
Just so that maybe I awaken a few more people to the fact that killing trees to print a
newspaper full of propaganda is insane.
Put your propaganda online, only online like everyone else.
I mean, come on, people.
We've got a planet we're trying to steward here.
This is ridiculous.
No, it's so true.
I think that's great.
And that's exactly the type of culture jamming that I think we need to embrace in this cycle.
Because, again, we're not the people who found Bitcoin early.
They're the outliers.
They're not.
You can't make...
You can't take them as the model and say, we're just going to do this everywhere.
Right?
It's like expecting there to be a bunch of founding fathers from the Constitution just
lying around America at any time.
It's not true, right?
There was only one Andreas Antonopoulos.
There's only been one Francis Pouliottes.
There's only a few of these people.
And when you see the way they are and the way they interact with the world, that's not
replicatable.
We got to find other ways.
And it's not going to be because, oh, are you interested in Austrian school economics?
If you just read this pile of fucking books, you'll get it, right?
Now, I'm not trying to stop anyone from writing a Bitcoin book.
God knows I love writing Bitcoin books.
But I'm not going to be there doing the nag thing.
If you were just smarter and knew about economic history, you'd be a Bitcoiner.
That's just not true.
That was true in 2015.
You could reach people that way.
We are far beyond that world now.
I actually use the human capital migrations into Bitcoin from professional circles as
a predictive frame.
So you can actually look at it as like sediments, right?
The original ones were the mailing list.
The political people from the Ron Paul thing happened right after.
And you saw real professionals giving up on politics saying, this isn't going to work.
Once you saw Bitcoin, you realized there was no more...
You couldn't support a party and expect the kind of change Bitcoin was offering.
It was all band-aids.
It was all lipstick on a pig.
And so if you understood it back then, you realized and you took that leap of faith with
Bitcoin, you said, okay, I'm going to do this.
I'm going to go in this direction.
Those people are rare.
You could see it, the political people.
The next one were not sentimental.
The Wall Street people who came, they understood what O8 did.
It made Wall Street a porno.
It made it a no-risk porno.
It's whacking off.
And some people want to fuck for real.
The only fucking will do.
People who really like risk, like an Arthur Hayes kind of guy who ended up creating Bitmex.
This guy loved real risk.
The real thing, you can lose everything.
So he went out and made Bitmex in Hong Kong where it was total cowboy.
And this was exactly what it sounds like.
It was fucking for real.
You could die.
You could get AIDS.
You could fucking get syphilis.
Like it was a disaster if it went wrong.
But if you want to fuck, porno won't do.
It'll never do.
And so we already in 2013 and 2014 were attracting real Wall Street traders, the only ones that
were left in the world.
Not the ones who were whacking off to porno, but the people who loved it.
So that was another thing.
Then we saw the Pepe start after and the artists came into Bitcoin.
You had these sort of sedimentary layers that entered the conversation.
What we're getting now are these Wall Street people and the energy folks.
And I do believe that's the path for us.
As much as I love the plebs of the world who are Bitcoiners, but all the other NPCs, we
can't contort everything we have just so that we knock Fiat out with the right style.
We got to knock it out whatever way we can.
And if that involves all this crazy shit, then that's what we got to do.
And so, and by crazy shit, I mean, embracing the failure of Fiat, basically.
But what we can go through as Fiat fails is the de-risking of the wealthy people and the
energy companies.
You know, unlike Fiat, Bitcoiners don't treat energy as like some input that academics
and journalists and economists can all talk about and put it in the New York Times.
Energy is the economy.
It's not an indicator on the GDP.
It is the fucking GDP.
Whatever else happens after doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned.
We only need one market to trade all the time with real price discovery and that's energy
denominated in Bitcoin.
If energy is measured in Bitcoin, if the market for oil makes sense to the world in Bitcoin,
if that is the reference in the same way that water was used to create the metric system,
right?
That's all the metric system is.
It's OK.
These are the properties.
It boils here and freezes there.
We'll make that zero and we'll make that 100 and everything else comes with it.
Kilometers, meters, everything came out of that.
You know, Bitcoin doesn't have to be in every plus wallet for us to win the revolution.
It only has to be in the wallet or in the psychology of the richest people in the world
who want to preserve their wealth and not get and want to be de-risked from what they
see as sovereign failure in America.
And the energy companies, if it doesn't make economic sense to own the war machine anymore,
which is what happened, right?
The energy companies own the war machine.
It's theirs.
They tell us what to do.
You can say whatever you want about Ukraine and the Nord Stream.
I don't care about any of the propaganda stories.
The truth of the matter is American energy companies backstopped it.
Whoever did it, they said, we can you're not going to freeze to death Europe.
We have the energy.
And so it was our call, right?
American energy did it.
I don't care who hired the fucking diver and planted the bomb.
It was American energy who said, make sense to us.
We're going to take Russia's market share and maybe if we win this, we'll get their
actual resources.
That's all good, right?
So the energy companies tell the war machine where to go and they listen.
Now the reality of war and the costs of violence exactly as the sovereign individual predicted
is changing.
And the Houthis are holding off the American aircraft carriers with $25 drones have shown
and proven and the energy companies are going to understand that their old way and the usefulness
of the US war machine is gone.
And so they need another way to stay ahead.
And the only way they can come to is energy finance.
That's what it's going to be.
How do you finance energy?
How do you build the new energy systems?
And it's not going to be from, oh, the government built a nuclear reactor.
It's not that they're too stupid.
So the best way is for them to build it.
And the only way they're going to be able to build it is by having real price discovery
and a real financial asset that allows the complex players to come together and coordinate
this.
So I do believe America is going to go energy abundance like we've never seen.
I mean, America is about to become just already a superpower in energy.
But when we don't get confused and sidetracked by all these foreign energy sources around
the world that we never needed, that we're all just bonus, that we're all just scooped
up in our unbelievable and insatiable appetite, not to innovate, but to just take what others
had, because it was the cheapest and most direct way.
I mean, we as Bitcoiners have to align with this type of enemy.
We do.
We have an energy system that provided all of this stuff to the world in the form of
direction to the war machine.
We have to literally convert them and the evil ones and the good ones and whoever else is
around.
But we will.
And that's the path I think we're going to take.
And that's why Texas is so important in this election where they have a whole bunch of
stuff about Texas in particular in the book, even though they're not involved in the federal
thing, what Abbott does and what Texas does.
We'll provide again that contrast for us to understand federal overreach and what we
did wrong in America and why we shouldn't have a federal government that runs this huge
war machine.
State militias are probably enough, right?
So three things.
First thing, I read in the New York Times that Russia blew up the pipeline.
Is that not true?
Of course they blew up their own pipeline.
I wouldn't blow up their own resource because I love it.
What it's due is the best.
This was Moscow time for a long time.
It was, try to say it straight, it was, because we have the segment we call it Moscow time,
of course, based on the fake news losing their mind about Jack Dorsey when he came in.
His block clock, yeah, in sats per dollar.
Well, it's the hallucination, right?
Because the guy convinced himself that it was Moscow code, that's where the Moscow time
thing comes from.
It's Moscow time.
So now we use it to show this hallucinatory effect.
This is what they hallucinated with the Nord Stream thing.
That it, because Putin was his reputation about paying his bills on time was a mess.
Thank you.
Blow it up.
Yes.
It's such an insane, like it's insane that, that I don't know what you want to call it.
I was going to call them like legacy, but they're not media.
They're propaganda.
And like, to a certain extent, everything is propaganda of some sort.
Yes, you could make that kind of argument as well, but this is different.
But this is, this is, yeah, this is just absurd.
Like, and nobody who, like if you read that headline, you're like, well, I guess, I guess
Vladimir Putin did blow up his own pipeline.
Like then fuck, like we may never reach you, but we certainly won't reach you for another,
I don't know, another few years at least.
But second thing was, I think you're exactly right with Texas, Texas, the Bitcoin mining
expansion and explosion that you're seeing there and the Texas grids ongoing stability
and ability to react to.
I love Pierre Rashard's tweets when he'll be like, well, you know, prices spiked due
to sunset.
And it's like, you know, which is just again, hilarious.
Like, well, the sun went down.
So of course prices had to go up, you know, right when everybody needs more.
But Texas, they're, you know, all the, these legacy media outlets for a few years were really
like bashing Urquhart bashing the Texas grid.
Oh, you know, they can't manage it.
And then, you know, Greenpeace was trying to blame some of that on Bitcoiners.
Oh, they're creating all this instability.
But now you see how well it's working and how Texas electricity prices are like some
of the cheapest in the world, like that it's self-evident, right?
You can just look at it.
And as you said, you can contrast it with anywhere else.
And that's a very easy comparison to make.
The one thing that I wanted to expand on a little bit was you said earlier, and I think
this is something that perhaps a lot of Bitcoiners may take issue with, which is why I want to
expand that a little bit, that you need to focus on the people who have the most wealth
basically, grocking Bitcoin first, like they're going to be the needle movers.
And some people may say, you know, I'm going to play both sides here.
On the one side, well, that's ridiculous.
Bitcoin should be to enfranchise the disenfranchised to lift up the lowest among us, you know.
And the other side of that is to say, well, what matters most is the most highly converting
the most highly productive people.
And with, you know, granted fiat wealth is an imperfect measure of one's productivity
and one's potential productivity, because again, those closest to the creation of new
money derive the greatest benefit from it, right?
You know, old Richard Cantillon taught us that well.
But can you expand on what your position on that is a little bit, just kind of why you've
arrived at that?
Just because, again, I think some people may pick up on that and say, well, what do you
mean, you know?
I don't mean we need to prioritize licking Wall Street people.
So that's not like, oh, you're from Wall Street and you're rich.
We love it.
Like that's not what I mean.
Yeah.
Right.
What I mean is there is a map when they people talk about the wealth transfer going on or
that the generational wealth transfer.
Now it's not generationally really, it's from NPCs to Bitcoiners.
And however we manage that is fine with me because it's a mad rush.
Now I agree with the Bitcoiners that in 100 years you sell a JPEG and you launch a shit
coin, you'll probably be killed on the spot and you won't need a trial because everyone's
time preference will be so low that we'll all have time to contemplate it and they'll
be, well, he's a scammer.
How did you know?
And everyone will be so trustworthy because the incentives are better and we can trust
each other a little better.
And they'll say, well, he's a scammer.
So we had to kill him, right?
But we're nowhere near that yet.
We're near that, right?
So I agree with the toxic maximalists about all of that stuff, right?
It's all dumb, JPEGs and blah, blah, blah, blah.
But we are in this weird middle period with all this money out there and it's going to
be converted through the Wall Street apparatus.
So we have to win this fight.
It's like a major battleground.
I don't know if it has to be the number one thing.
I hope that people down in wherever South America, all these Argentinian people, but
the truth is they've had, what are we at, 15 years ahead of the markets.
We've told them for 15 years this is coming.
We can't slow it down just to get a few people on.
That's not the kind of rocket we're building here, right?
We sent this Bitcoin thing into orbit to get away from the earthly forces of gravity.
We wanted exit velocity, right?
We had to get into space before they could take us apart.
And there's only a few ways to do that, right?
This is a literal engineering fight.
And when you look at this battlefront and what we can win just through shit talking and memes
and all this shit, right?
We got to get that.
We got to win that prize just like energy.
We don't need every energy company holding Bitcoin in the balance sheet.
What we need them to do is not recognize the dollar as useful for measuring the markets
because it's for food stamps.
And what we need is bricks to also fail because it is also a shit coin, right?
No one's going to trust it.
So in the end, what are they going to reference for energy prices?
How are they going to measure the price of West Texas crude versus Brent versus whatever?
You win that fight, you start winning the psychological war that we're in, right?
Now World War III is psychological and economic.
I think they're very similar economics are a form of psychology, but let's just pull
them apart for a second and go back to the economics part.
It's just the reality.
The vast amount of wealth that's held is held by boomers who are dying.
Now I think an angel gets their wings when I see a boomer signing up for a collateralized
loan on some stupid fucking platform staking Solana and all this shit.
And I think every Bitcoiner should sit there and go, this is hilarious.
I can sell this fucking moron a goddamn JPEG and turn it into Bitcoin.
Are you fucking serious?
Now I get it.
It puts the fees up high and all that, right?
That's a problem.
You know, you don't again, you want the Argentinians to not have to pay, you know, too many sats
for a transaction, but it's just it's not where the fight is.
The energy is on Wall Street.
It is with the ETF.
It is with this huge breakdown of what Wall Street was, right?
That's the real change here.
We want to change Wall Street.
We want to wipe it out, right?
The best way to wipe out Wall Street is actually to make Ethereum a bigger scam.
It's not big enough.
It's got to be so big that everyone in Wall Street trades whatever it is for something
on ETH.
And then in the end, it's like, yeah, but we can roll it back, motherfuckers.
And then they go, oh, what?
And then it's all gone, right?
And then it's all gone because we're not here to tweak Wall Street.
That's not the game.
The game to go after these wealthy people is to destroy it.
Destroy it.
So when I say prioritize it, it's not to make sure.
Now, I don't, if someone makes money off this and they get a bunch of Bitcoin, I don't
care.
I mean, this is this is war.
It's war, right?
And I'm not going to sit here like some people and say, you know, oh, you're a murderer in
a war.
There's no murdering in war.
There's no such thing.
You kill people, right?
This is death.
So now this is not that kind of war.
This is an economic war, right?
And if we wipe out the morons on Wall Street who don't think they're hypnotized, who really
believe their wants and fears are their own, they think they're their own, right?
They're not.
Neither are ours, right?
We're all sort of NPCs, all of us, even the Bitcoins, right?
So we can all be prompt engineered is what I mean, right?
Like that, to me, that's what Donald Trump is.
He's the greatest prompt engineer we've ever seen.
I mean, he's a prompt engineer.
That's what he does.
And everyone's susceptible to it.
He just goes in and, you know, prompt and then bang, people do shit, right?
And so prompt engineering is what the Fiat system does.
They've understood prompt engineering well long before we had AI.
They understood how to nudge people and how to pre-suede, right, to set something up so
that your own cognitive solution to a threat that's been given to you and put in front
of your line of sight.
It's a magic trick.
It's exactly that.
Look at this.
Boom.
Here's the solution, which comes to yourself, right?
You come up with the idea to put shackles on.
And so that's why I use the prompt engineering stuff in my book, because that's who we're
fighting against.
We're not fighting against people who have better arguments.
There's no arguments here.
We're not in the field of rational humans.
We're not rational.
We teach, you know, Bitcoin, there's numbers everywhere.
There's nothing to do with math.
People say, oh, I love the math of Bitcoin.
Yeah, it's great.
It's what gives us assurance that it's true and it's the one data point.
But truthfully, it is the psychology that it unleashes is our advantage, right?
The confidence that we've got the system is what will inevitably bring us to a level
of economic ability to win this fight.
And that's what we have to do.
It's an economic war, and we've got to be richer than them.
That's it.
We need the Bitcoiners the richest, and all the people who got in early rich, but that's
not really the prize.
The prize is to decimate the job of Wall Street.
It's to destroy the financial engineer.
And there's a few ways to do that, right?
And I say deliver them all the eth they can handle, deliver them Solana with a bow.
This is great.
Take it, guys.
You're going to love it.
Clatter eyes, go, you know, spin it.
Get that yield.
Get the yield.
And now there will be people who don't fall for that.
There will be people who will.
So again, this is my thesis is not to go bootleg Jamie Diamond.
Jamie Diamond, I don't give a fuck about it, right?
I know what he I've been talking to Jamie Diamond's office for years.
They're not they're liars.
I've known it forever.
It's complete and total liars, right?
You know, Bitcoiners will fall for Peter Schiff, too.
I don't know if it's real.
I don't think it is.
This is a character.
It's wrestling.
He's a heel.
He had a better chance to be a heel.
He played the heel.
You know, it's not about caring what he thinks.
He knew people would watch.
And so he did it and it worked.
I don't know if that's true, but when I saw the kid come out and he was in he was into
Bitcoin, it was a wrestling script.
I watched enough WWE in my life.
And then he had his his AI arc like, oh, no, I'm not interested in Bitcoin anymore.
Now it's now it's AI.
And exactly.
Exactly.
I mean, honestly, yeah, good acting, really, from the Schiff family.
You got to give him respect, man.
You can't let him trigger you.
You can't get angry.
Peter Schiff today said he is dumb and he loves gold and everyone's like, oh, I love
it because I like to lean into it because it's it's so absurd.
Again, he he is unless he like I am totally misreading this.
Peter Schiff is one of the greatest absurdists of of of our present time.
Like, yeah, maybe about like, it's incredible satire.
Because and all you have to do is look at the fact that Peter Schiff will sell you gold
in exchange for Bitcoin.
Yeah.
Like he will literally you can buy gold from him and pay in Bitcoin.
Yeah.
Like, don't look at what they say.
Look at what they do.
And it's very obvious.
Yeah.
He had a motherfucking Ordinals collection of fucking terrible JPEG art.
I, you know, I right click saved a few of them just so I have them, you know, and like,
like again, try he's trying to acquire Bitcoin very obviously.
Yeah.
But honestly, dude's a good actor and us Bitcoiners have amplified him up to a million followers.
Because, you know, the majority of real gold bugs aren't on Twitter.
They're in their fucking bunker already.
They're like, we're we're ready, you know.
But now I'm glad you clarified that because I think the clarification was very important.
And again, it comes back to your kind of core thesis, which is accelerate absurdity, accelerate
contrast.
And I mean, what you're basically suggesting there is like, look, whether these very wealthy
people who are the, you know, the fiat cantillionaires, whether they get Bitcoin or not or get distracted
by all the other peripheral shit, it's still good for Bitcoin.
It's ultimately still good for Bitcoin.
If they decide if they really end up clicking with Bitcoin, well, great, you've got somebody
who has an immense amount of purchasing power who just groked it.
If they don't and they get distracted by chasing the yield, also great.
They get wiped out.
Again, you know, everything is good for Bitcoin, right?
To me, you know, you look at the, you remember the boxing match between Muhammad Ali and
George Foreman.
And if you don't know it, you know, it's the rope of dope thing.
And right.
So George Foreman is falling.
He's a huge man.
And he's sort of lumbering around the stage when Ali finally got him.
And you see Ali sort of not hit him once.
He's cocked and he's ready to go.
And if you saw that movie, When We Were Kings, they described that moment.
Basically, Ali's thinking now that he doesn't want to be off balance when he knocks him
out because it will ruin the beauty of like, like a, like an ugly punch, you know?
And that's kind of how I think about the Wall Street stuff for Bitcoiners.
Like we argue about the style of knocking out fiat.
No, no, no, knock them the fuck out.
I don't care about the fucking style.
Knock them out.
Like we can't sit around here.
We don't have time to say, oh, well, I wish we would have had a three punch combo in
the 10th minute of round, you know, or the 10th round, you know, third minute, like dramatic
or something.
No, just knock the fucker out.
It doesn't matter how we'll clean up the mess after and Bitcoin will be supreme.
And if there's the worst cantillionaire who made Bitcoin and got out, what are we supposed
to do about that?
I mean, really, are we in a world where we're going to be policing who has Bitcoin?
Of course not.
That's the last thing we want to do.
I don't care who gets it.
I don't care.
And if I see Wall Street going degenerate again, because that's what it is, it's a degenerate
shithole.
If you're going to come there in a degenerate shithole and think you're going to nag people
into being healthier and exercising, it's not going to work.
You need to do this.
You need to rug pull them, punch them in the face, sell them each.
Sell them what you did on the other end with it and laugh at them when they're poor.
That's it.
Like, that's it.
That's it.
That's the game.
Honestly, I like the perspective very much.
And it really does get back to the whole like everything is good for Bitcoin.
And I think a lot of, I have empathy for people who still don't crock Bitcoin because it took
me a long time to grok it.
I heard about it during the Silk Road days from a buddy who was like, hey, I'm ordering
something off the Silk Road.
And have you heard of this Bitcoin thing?
I like need to get some to pay to pay this guy.
I'm like, dude, I don't care about your nerd shit.
Like, you know, whatever, you know, so ignored, right?
Back to back to fiat life for a couple of years, 2017 bull run hits.
Huh.
Now, that thing that my buddy told me about now that's like in the news.
Huh.
Okay.
Well, let me just see what's going on here.
Oh, I can't afford a full Bitcoin.
Let me just buy one of these lite coins because, you know, I can't afford a full Bitcoin.
Again, fucking idiot, right?
Yep.
And then finally, 2020 rolls around.
And I see that the government is just starts like they are starting to just create money
out of nothing.
And I was really paying attention at this point.
And then I was like, well, hold on a second.
This doesn't make any, you know, where the fuck does the money come from?
They're about to start sending out stimulus checks in a month.
From where?
Like what, where is it coming from?
It doesn't make any sense.
And that's when I started like really going deep.
But in, you know, it, it takes people sometimes a few, a few nudges and then one big knock
on the head before they finally like, and that was me.
So again, like I have, I have so much empathy for people who have heard about Bitcoin, heard
about Bitcoin.
Now it's also a thing where it's like, well, there are some people I have no empathy for
because, you know, they've heard about it, heard about it, been in the right circles
to actually understand it, been exposed to it countless times, not just like once every
couple of years.
And they're still just so they have that sunk cost bias where they're so deep in their
hole, they're never going to get out.
And then it's like, okay, you know, here's another frame for you if you want to help
understand and bridge the gap to those people.
Because I, you know, look, if you come from the early days, there wasn't as much of a
distinction between shit coiners and Bitcoiners yet, right?
They just didn't need it.
But I've never, I've never changed my tune from back then and it's the following.
You know, Bitcoin, all the other cryptos have the same consumer tech mindset in place,
right?
Where it's like new or iPhone 11, 12, 13, and Super Nintendo, and Nintendo 64, right?
Bitcoin of course was unique.
Now we've been trained to understand technology in this way, right?
We've been trained to understand consumer technology.
Bitcoin came around and it inverses that.
It's the oldest, it's the slowest, it's this and that.
But that's important if you're doing something like money where credibility becomes the number
one factor.
Not just as if we're not trying to beat Visa here and, you know, transactions per minute.
That's the problem of the smart, high IQ people who have had access to Bitcoin for years.
They still haven't broken the mold on the consumer mindset, the consumer tech mindset.
Because everything around you and Fiat would hypnotize you into believing that's just reality.
That newer is better.
But we of course understood.
And that's a very revolutionary act to understand the Lindy effect piece to this, that it's
every day that Bitcoin has survived.
It's the length of time it's been alive that's valuable.
And that's very hard for some people to grok.
Because again, we're not dealing with an information or IQ problem.
What we're dealing with is hypnotism.
What we're dealing with is black magic, a form of black magic that is altering people's
view of reality.
Now it might have been good.
It might have been close enough to reality 80 years ago that you could have one job and
raise a family on it, right?
You didn't have to have all of these compromises.
And you didn't have to, you know, sort of, what's the word?
It's not eat crow, but you didn't have to, you didn't have to put water in your wine
to that extent and say, oh, it's great.
It's still great.
You didn't have to do the mental gymnastics to talk yourself into, oh, I love sitting
in traffic and no one sees their kids and we are working all the time and it's just
the best, right?
We get two weeks vacation a year.
It's awesome, right?
So that whole piece, I think anyway, is where we can actually win.
And it's what a lot of these methods that I have are about.
They're about provoking these people, you know, not with an argument, but with a way
that reverses and makes the fiat world collapse on its own weight because it is so made up
now and it's such a hallucination that it's easy to use that contrast.
So that to me is how I try and go about doing it.
You know, it seems to work.
Now you got to guide them because they'll either hate you when you do the cognitive dissonance
thing so you'll lose a lot of friends this way, right?
Because they will hate you if you, you know, I've been doing this for years.
So they fucking hate it when people make them review.
No one wants to review their whole worldview, not you and not me either, right?
I don't want to hear anything about the vaccine.
Nothing.
I don't want to change.
I don't want to learn more about it and change my opinions and I don't want to hear it, right?
And if someone brings me information about the vaccines, I'm angry.
I'm angry.
Like, like shut the fuck up.
You stupid shit talking to me about fucking vaccines.
Get the fuck out of here.
I don't want to hear anything about it, right?
Not data on any side, on any side, nothing, zero, not interested.
And so the way we can actually implement that and connect with these people is, you know,
through these kinds of mimetic techniques because once they hate you or they're opened,
that's when you have the chance to get into their subconscious and really just drop Bitcoin
means into that, you know, fleshy, the underbelly that they've exposed and you can pump them
right in there at that time because they don't know anything.
If you can say you love having a retarded president because it's amazing, right?
Because it's good for your bag and the US is dumb and the whole thing's going to fall.
People never thought about that before.
They're like, what?
And it's like I say, I do the Ethereum thing with Bitcoiners.
No, no, no, Ethereum is not a big enough scam.
You're not, what are you protecting Bitcoiners from Ethereum for?
What are you talking about?
Let it go to the people who have no idea what's going on here.
Let them buy dog shit all day long.
What's the best way to make a Bitcoiner?
I know what it is.
The foolproof way to make a Bitcoiner is to make them lose shit coin money.
It works every time.
It's the best way.
There's never been a better way.
Shitcoining and getting burned is the tried and true passage of most Bitcoiners and we
should embrace people shitcoining and getting burned.
It will happen eventually.
Take me for example at CoinDesk all those years I worked for Kraken.
I'm as inside fucking baseball as you can get with these motherfuckers.
I got every VC begging me to be on stage I got and for years now.
I knew every secret, everything that was going to pop, every coin that was going to
go to a million, all of it.
Even I couldn't trade against these fucking people with all the information that I have.
I would get burned in the old days because it's an unwinnable game.
It's literal gambling.
Indeed, even for example, equity in companies that are startups, all I have left is the
Bitcoin.
Everything else gets to Kraken getting sued by the SEC, DCG, fucking Dunn, CIA.
One magazine gets sued by the Federal Reserve or Cease and Desist they're financially fine
but it's like you get these enemies that are going to come after you and you got to deal
with it.
The best way that I've known is let them get burned.
It works every time.
I think it may honestly be the only foolproof way.
Again, very few people get smart by choice.
The majority get smart by force.
But force is usually something very unpleasant.
It's usually pain.
But then you get smart.
Sometimes you need to touch the stove and realize it's hot so you don't fucking touch the stove
again.
Now, I don't want to leave any moral lighthouse censored.
I don't have any problem with Maxi's being to their absolute most toxic.
That's the way the system ought to work.
Some people do need to hear the extreme version even if it's not for the world today.
Even if it's not for the world today, I don't think I would be as cavalier about shipping
all of Ethereum into Wall Street to destroy it.
Had I not understood Peter Todd's breakdown of complexity theater and Francis Pouliac's
way of triggering Vitalik, I wouldn't have understood what was really going on.
I've met Vitalik a million times.
He's a great guy.
He's super nice.
He's like gentle, gentle, gentle.
But what they created and what they did all those years ago, I understand why people
hate it.
It is something to criticize and condemn.
But that's just to be right.
The game here is not to be right.
The game here is hyperbitcoinization.
If people want to get confused by iPhone 12 and iPhone 13 before they understand we reverse
the polarity on tech development here, then they've got to learn.
Sometimes it takes a punch in the face.
It's the Mike Tyson quote.
Everyone has a plan until you get punched in the face.
Everyone has a plan for their shitcoins and their fucking 401k and their shit fiat trash
tokens.
They all have ideas for that money.
Then they get punched in the face.
That's a reality.
We can't argue about the style of Bitcoin winning.
It's a war.
It's a kinetic war.
It's a psychological and economic war.
It involves taking over vast resources, food, energy, and destroying entire industries.
It's a big war.
I can't think of a better way to destroy an industry than polluting it and corrupting
it to its very core by injecting so much toxic garbage into it that it can't survive.
What kind of stockpicker?
It's already not a job.
You don't even mean stockpicking.
It's already not a job.
Now you're going to go be a shitcoin picker.
There's a way to get rid of this.
There's a way to get rid of it forever.
That's by allowing it all to just get way worse.
I pray for ETH at whatever thousands of dollars eclipsing Wall Street.
It'll be the funniest thing you ever see when it all comes down because it's bullshit.
It's a proof of stake shitcoin scam.
The best thing we can do with it is drive it right into Wall Street.
Let all these people, oh, I did the technical analysis on Ethereum.
Perfect.
Great.
I love it, man.
That is honest, I think, about as perfect a note to wrap up on as we could have.
Let's drive Ethereum right into the belly of Wall Street.
That's the only surefire way to bring it to you.
Push the line.
Oh, God, yeah.
What are the new ones?
You got to always cycle up.
Whatever the new one is.
You got to cycle up.
It'll be down for maintenance for a little while, but just once it's back up, yeah.
So good.
I love it.
Hey, any place you want to send people, I'll link.
Sure, yeah.
I do the breakup every day.
You can catch that on YouTube.
You can catch that on Rumble.
You can catch that on the Bitcoin Magazine Rumble channel.
I think it's along with simply Bitcoin, the two most watched daily shows in the industry.
It's every day 8 a.m. Eastern time.
And then I publish my books at NolanBowrelly.com so you can find the Bitcoiners guide to NPC
Management, the Bitcoiners guide to the US 2024 elections.
They're both there free downloads.
I'm also in the Bitcoin sci-fi game, and I've got a couple of Bitcoin sci-fi novels.
One will be coming out soon called Blue Moon Orange Coin.
Very fun.
I like it.
I can't wait to check it out, man.
I got to say, thank you so much for coming on here today.
Bitcoin is scarce, but Bitcoin podcasts are abundant.
So thank you for sharing your scarce time.
So come on another fucking Bitcoin podcast.
No, this was a real treat for me, yours is one of the podcasts I like.
So there you go.
Well, now I'm going to be blushing as we go off camera here.
All right, man.
Thanks so much.
Peace, man.
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin talk episode of the Bitcoin podcast.
If you are a Bitcoin only company interested in sponsoring another fucking Bitcoin podcast,
head to Bitcoinpodcast.net or hit me up on social media.
On Noster, head to primal.net slash Walker.
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slash at Walker America or rumble by searching for at Walker America.
Bitcoin is scarce.
There will only ever be 21 million, but Bitcoin podcasts are abundant.
So thank you for spending your scarce time to listen to another fucking Bitcoin podcast.
Until next time, stay free.