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Open Claws, the fastest growing open source software project that humans have ever known.

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And I told my agent, he was a Bitcoin maximalist. He's like, oh, okay. And he went and he acted

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accordingly. We're in a new renaissance right now. If there's anything that I want people to

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take away from this is that you can do it. Don't just stand by and watch life happen in front of

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you. Many people are also missing that it's like a loaded gun, right? Like you can point it both

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ways. Derek had the same idea too. So we teamed up and we created Cluster. The dystopian totalitarian

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future is here. It's just not evenly distributed yet. I thought at the time that everyone was going

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to realize that they were being censored and that decentralization and censorship resistant

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technology was the sexy selling point that everyone was going to immediately understand

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and realize. And then that didn't happen.

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The post that I called you out on, which felt semantically like it might have been written by one of your bots.

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Was that actually you that wrote it?

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Are you just now speaking in AI terms?

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Oh, no.

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That actually was me.

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Yeah, that was me.

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So you're just becoming the bot.

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You are now indistinguishable.

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Well, I'm not going to lie.

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I use bots.

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I mean, I use, you know, AI a lot to write things.

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But that post in particular was 100% Derek.

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Derek's, you know, sometimes I'm deep and I think about what I want to say for a while.

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And then other times I react right away and shit post.

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Like, you know, you never know what you're going to get.

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So if it's a good post, yes, it could be AI.

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Or I could have spent more than 30 seconds on it.

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But that's the thing.

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People really want to know, but you can't know.

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so well sometimes you can like sometimes you very much can i feel like it's with shorter form stuff

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it's harder to know especially because like lynn and i were talking about this ai just kind of like

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ruined the m dash a little bit i love a good m dash that's what i was thinking i mean people use

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m dash like i used to use them all the time i'll tell you what i use it now more often

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i literally almost never used it but now i i don't know i'm i'm more used to seeing it everywhere

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i'm used to using it now so now i want to start to use it you do you like copy and paste it from

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wikipedia you search m dash and then copy and paste it or well wait what kind of machine are

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you using if i'm on mobile it'll it'll automatically format it but yeah on desktop i'll never use it

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because I'd have to go and search for it and copy and paste it like you said.

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But on mobile, it'll type it for me.

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Even on, like, I mean, at least for most sites,

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if you double tap a dash, it'll give you an M dash.

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And sometimes I'll just double tap the dash,

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and if it doesn't automatically convert it,

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I just leave it as a double tap dash,

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which is then like, okay, that's clearly not AI,

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because Walker was too lazy to actually make an M dash.

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Unless I'm editing it to do the two dashes to fool you into thinking that.

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shit guys it's a wild world out there it's a wild world okay where do we start with this

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gentleman uh there is a bunch of stuff i want to talk to you guys about i don't want to start with

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feet or derek will get too excited right off the bat and we just you know we need to we need to get

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in with have a little bit of normalcy just to begin with but i mean do you guys want to start

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I mean, just for anyone who's like not perhaps not aware of the work that you guys do or maybe that's listening to this after the fact, who's not on Noster and maybe isn't as up to date.

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There are still people who aren't on Noster, shockingly.

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Turns out quite a few of them.

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But you guys just want to give like a, I don't know, like a little intro.

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Like, hey, who the fuck are you?

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What are you working on right now?

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What's up?

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Are you a bot?

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You can talk about your company, Alex.

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I'll let you go.

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Yeah.

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Go ahead.

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Hey, guys.

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So I'm Alex Gleason. I'm a longtime open source developer, and I'm probably most well known at this point for formerly being the head of engineering of Donald Trump's Truth Social client, which I got involved in because I wanted to pursue decentralization.

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and it seemed like a good opportunity to make like a decentralized open source platform there.

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But that didn't end up happening despite all of my attempts to convince them.

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So I jumped ship from that.

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I had been prior to that building on Mastodon and the Fediverse for many years.

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And that's how I ended up being involved with them, actually.

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But then it was time for a change and Noster started picking up in popularity.

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That's the new decentralized protocol that we're all building on now.

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It's a little bit more Bitcoin-oriented, I would say.

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And so I began moving all of my development towards Noster instead and kind of porting Donald Trump's social media platform to my version of it anyway, because at this point I've left from them.

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But my goal is just to make decentralized and open source technology accessible to everyone.

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I believe that's the future.

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Whether people realize it or not, that's what benefits humanity.

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So my company is called Soapbox.

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Derek is working with us doing technically his role as DevRel, but he does so much more.

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And so Derek, tell us about it.

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Yeah, somehow I convinced somebody to pay me to use Noster.

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Like, this is pretty cool.

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Jokes aside.

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So, you know, for the past three years, I've been onboarding and educating people and teaching people and been a very, we'll say, a Noster evangelist, you know, going around speaking about Noster, doing workshops and education and so forth.

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So I'm still doing that, but a little bit more focused on the Soapbox products because I love them and I use them.

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Soapbox is an AI-first company, meaning we use AI every day, all day long.

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We build AI tools and so forth.

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And that's kind of what I will say kind of like reconnected Alex and I together.

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He was building AI things.

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I was struggling to use AI things.

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And he made something that made building on Noster really important.

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He essentially made like a template.

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And if you want to build Noster applications and you would use Alex's template, you would have great success.

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And I know this because firsthand a year ago, I tried to build my first Noster app and it struggled.

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I was, you know, vibe coding, rolling my face across the keyboard, building this app.

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And I eventually built it, but it cost me like $800.

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and I almost gave up vibe coding.

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I was very, very frustrated

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and just didn't have a good experience.

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And Alex messages me and he's like,

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hey, I'm working on something to make non-devs

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like you have a better experience.

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And like a month later or so, boom, it happened.

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And I started using his tools and realized,

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oh, wow, like a lot of people need to use these

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to build Nostra apps.

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And fast forward a couple months later,

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I'm talking about the product services that Alex is building, an advocate because I use them myself.

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I think other people should use them to build on Noster, doing workshops, creating content and so forth,

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and still living up to the Noster CEO meme and talking about Noster as much as I can everywhere I can go.

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So it's been a great wild ride.

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And I think that I don't know where else I would want to do this at.

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Alex and the other members of the team are all very aligned together.

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We're all kind of understand the future, understand where this is going with AI and embracing it and trying to make it better for everybody.

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so alex and excuse my ignorance i did not know that you were like at the top of building truth

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social can we like i there's there okay there's so much i want to get into with you guys here

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oh this is a good story can we pause on that first how does that even happen like that you

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started building this and yeah like can you walk us through that um sure let me tell you my whole

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life story so um so i always thought that i was going to be an artist um but i realized that

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computers are more powerful at one point. You know, you could spend hours trying to create a

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painting that no one cares about, or you can spend a few hours and then create something that's

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functional that you can deploy that can actually do something. And then this kind of led me down

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the path of open source and discovering that and having these thoughts about like, well,

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you know, Uber and Lyft have hundreds of employees and they're all building the exact same thing,

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but they're not allowed to share their work with each other. And that's a shame. Like, you know,

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people will will say well competition is good uh right but from the perspective of the workers

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um they're just spending their lives churning away building these things that they don't

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technically have to build because someone else has already built it and and so i'm like thinking

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about these things um and you know i i was a young man at the time and in in 2017 the probably the

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biggest obstacle to open source was social media. Like social media, it was the thing that was

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dominating technology. It was the pinnacle and the peak of technology. It was the thing

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that people were not able to replicate. And so when Mastodon came out, that was a huge

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inspiration for me. Mastodon, it was the first successful decentralized social media protocol.

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and so I got really involved into that and I was hosting my my own stuff and then I kind of

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I kind of ended up in you know in the crossfire of the culture war at one point and you know my

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my political views have gone like way up and down super cyclical where like I was like libertarian

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And then I became like super liberal and like I was woke at one point.

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And then like I started to have some of the wrong opinions around the woke people, which all of like the Macedon crowds are.

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And then like, you know, rather than engaging in conversation about these things, they're just like, oh, no, you're literally Hitler or whatever.

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And so I kind of went down this path of like, you know, I want to pursue free speech, social media, because that actually is a liberal value to me.

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And so I was building free speech social platforms on Mastodon when it was very unpopular on Mastodon.

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Because at this time in about 2017, people on Twitter were being banned for...

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How do I explain this?

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There's this left and this right, right?

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And the far left were saying that Twitter is not censoring people enough.

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Uh, and, and so, and then, and then there's people like kind of in this realm, they're

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saying Twitter censoring people too much.

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And so what the Fediverse ended up getting is they end up getting these far left people

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who says they're not censoring people enough.

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And then they get these far right people who say they're censoring too much.

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And so then Twitter kind of just has this middle and then these fringes end up in the

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decentralized platforms.

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And so that's where, where I was at is I'm in this extremely polarized, politicalized

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environment.

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Um, but we're building open source, which is what I want.

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And I'm trying so desperately to bring the middle in and just failing.

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And then and so I had built a, you know, one of the best platforms, which is called Soapbox for people to join Mastodon in this like user friendly way that is appealing to sort of like the middle.

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and Donald Trump's team found my open source project Soapbox

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while they were researching building their new social media company

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because Donald Trump had been banned off of Twitter.

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And so they were investigating Mastodon.

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They were looking at alternatives to Mastodon.

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They found Soapbox.

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And so I received an email from some guy who didn't identify himself

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as being related to this in any way.

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He was just saying to me, hey, would it be possible to do this or this or that like technical

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thing?

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I'm just curious.

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We have a lot of users that are really interested in this project and they might want to use

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your software.

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Can you get on a call with me?

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And so I got on a call with him and he was like, look, man, I can't tell you what this

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is until you sign an NDA.

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But we have literally millions of users that are going to use this thing and it would be

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great to have your help on it.

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And so I'm just like, okay.

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no clue what I'm getting myself into. I signed the NDA, I joined. And then I kind of after joining,

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I'm just like clicking around in the Slack and in their system they added me to. And then I see

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Trump media technology is the client. And so that just like blew my fucking mind. And so then,

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and, you know, I'm kind of still a liberal at this point. Like I'm a liberal who is against

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cancel culture, which is this weird place to be in the world, I guess. And so I'm not a supporter

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of Trump. I was never a supporter of Trump. I never voted for Trump. But I didn't think that

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he should have been banned off of Twitter. I think that was a mistake. I think that's bad for the

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internet. I think that's bad for freedom of speech. I'm against that. And so I was actually

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aligned with their mission to some extent. And so I did join on and I helped them build this

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product and every step of the way I pushed them to make it more open, more accessible to, to try

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to get them, to convince them to join the decentralized network. Um, and, uh, I, you,

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you know, year one, um, we launched and then big changes happened in the company. Uh, people got

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pushed out people that I loved and respected, um, and different leadership came in. And then I spent

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a whole nother year trying to convince them to decentralize it and to just join the Mastodon

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protocol that they had based their software stack on, but they had disabled all of the

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Federation features of.

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And then after realizing that I was never going to get through to them on this issue,

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I just was like, OK, my efforts are better spent elsewhere trying to make this decentralized

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open source mission happen.

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And so that was that was when I ended up jumping ship to Noster.

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and so the first thing I did was I created a bridge between Mastodon and Noster it's called

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Moster and that that allowed me to connect the communities and the people that I already had on

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the Mastodon side of things with the new crowd that I was connecting to on Noster and then I

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started porting all of the software that I had written for Activity Pub onto Noster including

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Soapbox that was you know by this point it had been very modified and tailored to Donald Trump's

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truth social platform so um that project of porting the of soapbox to nostr is called ditto

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and if you visit ditto.pub then you will see something that very closely resembles truth

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social.com but it works entirely on nostr um and um but but my original vision for for soapbox which

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then became ditto was it's like uh you know mastodon's way of doing it is that every server

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they put up is a mascot server and has mascot name and branding but my vision was no every

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community that spins up like a server this is a different onboarding ramp that you're going to

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want customization for your community to appeal to a specific demographic to for them to be joining

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the decentralized um network so you know sort of like the old way of the internet where there's all

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these niches and different interesting websites that you can visit they're all separate but in

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this new way, they can all be interconnected too. Because when you bring users to any of those sites,

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then those users can now talk across all of the sites on the decentralized protocol.

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So Soapbox is about appealing to different audiences, truth social being one of them,

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like conservatives in America, bringing them in for a particular reason.

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and and then once ai you know started to become viable for coding i realized that actually all

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of these forums that i'm building to where i can let the administrator choose a color scheme on

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their site and upload a logo to their site this is archaic now this is outdated what i want is for

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people to just enter a prompt and say this is the type of community that i want to build

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and so that's kind of where we are now i've built a tool called shakespeare and shakespeare is that

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tool um and we have templates that you can get started out where people can be like okay i want

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to start out building you know a site like twitter i want to start building a site like instagram or

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whatever um and you you can start out just from a raw prompt and just describe what you want or you

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can start out from one of these things that we've built out a little bit um and we're building a new

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version of ditto slash soapbox right now that is a complete rewrite that's going to make things way

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more awesome for people who want to build interesting twitter like stuff that connects

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to like everything um and uh and and yeah so that's kind of the whole journey that's the vision

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um building building communities with ai i think one of the it's wild i just want to say that's a

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wild story of just like, okay, yep, you just end up accidentally building Donald Trump's

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true social.

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So one of my favorite parts about that that Alex didn't mention is that...

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in riga like two years ago where that software came from that you used for for truth social like

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what trump's network was built off of this is yeah this is really funny so so so um before soapbox

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the first site that we built was a feminist website it's for four feminists who are getting

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banned off of twitter because they weren't aligned with like the woke standards of third wave

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feminism right like they're maybe a little bit uncomfortable um with the gender stuff of of like

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in sports and in bathrooms and stuff like that and you know they call them right yeah exactly

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sling yeah exactly um and so i you know i i believe that that people should have free speech

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and like, come on, silencing this discussion,

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like let people talk.

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So I created this website called Spinster

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and Spinster was the precursor to Soapbox.

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It's like purple and it has like this logo too.

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And then I made a Soapbox from Spinster as that template.

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And so the lineage is the Donald Trump's

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social media website is based off of a feminist platform.

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yeah i think sorry that's just that's amazing you called it you called it spinster though

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like yes i mean this is this is a reference to spinster and her enemies uh a famous feminist

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uh book uh okay i i was just thinking it was more of a derogatory term for uh old single woman uh

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but i guess that's they were they were only their base yeah loves it i think

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dude that that is wild but derek you're gonna say something else go ahead no i was gonna say

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like i i think that uh it would be i don't know the people that use truth social they may not want

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to use it if they realize what their lineage was that's the funny that's the funny thing

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this is see i like i love hearing this i didn't actually know that the like the backbone of truth

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social was built out on top of Mastodon. Can I ask too, Alex, okay, you've now, you've worked in

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a lot of these areas, whether, you know, in terms of decentralized sort of decentralized retaking of

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the internet, in terms of comparing Mastodon and Nostr from your kind of technical developer

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perspective, you know, do you see yourself going back to that to Mastodon at all? Or is do you

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view Nostr as kind of superior from a protocol standpoint? Nostr is the future. Because the way

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mastodon works you know it's email and password login uh and when you log into a single you you

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have to choose a server which is very difficult this is kind of like the fast food menu problem

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where like the more menu items are on in a fast food uh menu like people get overwhelmed by a

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choice and this is when you're coming in to join mastodon the first thing you have to choose is

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what server are you going to join and and like many of these servers are identity oriented it's

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like you're Swedish, so join the server.

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You're like, you love football, so join the server.

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And like people aren't one thing.

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People are many things.

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And like this idea of having to force yourself

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into this identity from the very start

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is something that pushes people away.

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But then once you actually get in there,

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the people who are running these servers,

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they're running them like fiefdoms.

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And they have complete control over the server

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And often you're subjected to the arbitrary decisions of just some guy, which often is worse than the terms and conditions and guidelines of some big tech corporation.

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Because if you're just posting stuff and then that some guy just doesn't like you, then you can have your entire social media identity deleted just at an instant with no notice and no recourse.

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And that's exactly what happened to me with my account.

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And so when that happened, I'm like, well, fuck it.

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I'm starting my own server then.

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And so I built, you know, Spinster, among others, Gleasonator. And Spinster had 20,000 users in the first month. I learned how to scale Mastodon and it was actually knowledge that ended up helping me create Truth Social.

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um so and it was it was because it was something that people other people also wanted and and

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needed but but no stir is completely different on no stir every single individual is sovereign

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now there's a down there is a downside to this it's the same as the bitcoin private key problem

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right because like um on with bitcoin you have a wallet you lose your wallet address it's over

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right like there's there's no one that's going to come in and help you um but with great power

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comes right responsibility right that's one of the first things that people have to learn when

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they come into bitcoin and on noser it's a very similar story your private key represents you if

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you lose that if it gets leaked if you send it to something untrusted then um that identity is

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cooked but at least that's on you right that's your you made a mistake versus on mastodon you

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are just completely subject to the whims of some god i think a lot of people don't understand that

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when they think of decentralized web they'll think of mastodon they'll think of maybe blue sky

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but but truly like what alex was saying is there with mastodon there still is a gatekeeper there

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still is somebody in control i mean federated is more like distributed it's not decentralized

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And with Blue Sky, too, they're just better about hiding it.

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Sure, sure.

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So, yeah, so Noster is the only true decentralized social communication protocol out of all of them right now.

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And I don't know how we get more people to understand that.

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I don't think they really care about that.

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And that's kind of the rock and hard place that we're between right now.

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Derek, let me ask you something because you've obviously been a great evangelist for Noster

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broadly. I try to do my part just to follow in your footsteps, you know, and evangelize where I

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can. It does seem that Noster has hit sort of a, you know, I mean, the growth has been, I think,

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slower than people anticipated maybe, but it's also one of those things where, and I'm curious

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of your take on this, I mean, do more people end up joining Noster because, hey, look at all the

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incredible user experiences that are possible here? Or is it like, hey, we're getting censored

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elsewhere. We need to find this alternate path. I have my thoughts on this, but I'm curious,

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like, is it more likely that huge influxes of new users come from running away from something or

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running towards something, like away from something negative or towards something positive? You know

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what I mean? Yeah. So three years ago, when you and I were down in Costa Rica, almost three years

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of the day. I thought at the time that everyone was going to realize that they were being censored

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or had the ability to be censored elsewhere and that decentralization and censorship-resistant

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technology was the sexy selling point that everyone was going to immediately understand

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and realize. And then that didn't happen. I don't think people care about that. So then

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the second year into Noster, I thought, well, I think that telling people how cool it is to be

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able to take your identity from one app and pop it into a second app and all of your contacts,

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social graph content and so forth comes with you. And I thought that was extremely powerful.

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And some people did bite onto that, just like some people did follow through with the

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the decentralization and censorship resistant.

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But I don't think that the two of those

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are still powerful enough to sell Nostra to the masses.

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I've seen in year three now,

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I've seen where we have more apps being built

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over the past year, over the past day, week,

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than we've ever had.

358
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Thanks to AI, thanks to Vibe Coding,

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thanks to tools like we have Shakespeare and other tools,

360
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people are building a dozen apps a week.

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Each person is doing that.

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So we've had more apps.

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00:29:38,458 --> 00:29:45,698
The ecosystem is now exploding, yet we're not seeing a major growth of users.

364
00:29:46,318 --> 00:29:53,798
I still think that we have a marketing problem because we don't have a dedicated Nostra marketing team.

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Now Soapbox does have a marketing team, and we're working on things like this.

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But I think that across the whole protocol, we just need to do better to make ourselves more enticing and attractive to users because our early adoption needs and wants and us being Bitcoiners and liking new technology and transformative technology, revolutionary technology, we know that the world doesn't care about that.

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If they did, we'd have 8 billion Bitcoiners out there, but we don't.

368
00:30:24,978 --> 00:30:35,038
So we can't use the same marketing and selling points that obviously aren't working with Bitcoin to have it work with Nostra.

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We need to think of something else.

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So, Alex, I want to ask you on this, too, because as you talked about, like you have experience and success scaling these sorts of applications, you know, backbone aside, but scaling these sorts of applications pretty damn rapidly.

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do you agree with Derek from that perspective of new you know new user growth is that is that what

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00:30:59,078 --> 00:31:04,338
it comes down to just let a you know a million micro apps bloom and that's what's going to

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attract people yeah so I have my answer to that too um I think that that people do care but only

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when they are actively being censored and censorship events do happen um and like in you know in 2017

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um x you know twitter before elon bought it was very different now that elon has purchased twitter

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that has completely changed the landscape because now people aren't people just don't feel like

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they're being censored anymore but i mean it is still happening in the world outside of america

378
00:31:34,618 --> 00:31:42,678
like in venezuela um people are still struggling to access twitter there uh and and so you know

379
00:31:42,678 --> 00:31:51,518
it's cyclic cyclical um but um so that that's definitely one angle of it right now in 2026

380
00:31:51,518 --> 00:31:55,078
in america it doesn't feel like that's the biggest selling point doesn't mean that's not going to

381
00:31:55,078 --> 00:32:01,218
change later so so noster is here for when like we're ready for when that happens so that's that's

382
00:32:01,218 --> 00:32:06,458
my one point and then my my other point is that at soapbox we are trying to approach it from both

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00:32:06,458 --> 00:32:12,658
angles um so we're ensuring that we're building what we're building is censorship resistance

384
00:32:12,658 --> 00:32:15,118
so we can provide for those communities.

385
00:32:15,698 --> 00:32:18,238
But we are also trying to take it from the angle

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00:32:18,238 --> 00:32:23,258
of creating interesting new user experiences

387
00:32:23,258 --> 00:32:27,078
that are now possible thanks to AI.

388
00:32:27,458 --> 00:32:31,238
And the innovation that we have seen in the past year

389
00:32:31,238 --> 00:32:32,458
has been truly incredible.

390
00:32:32,838 --> 00:32:35,478
It really feels like a new renaissance.

391
00:32:35,478 --> 00:32:37,778
It's like a Cambrian explosion.

392
00:32:38,618 --> 00:32:41,738
And people who aren't on it are frankly missing out.

393
00:32:42,658 --> 00:32:51,998
And it's I don't know how to to better get the things that we're building in front of people and to make them realize the awesome stuff that has been created.

394
00:32:53,038 --> 00:33:01,218
But if we if we can manage to reach people, then I think that people will be interested to use some of these these things.

395
00:33:01,218 --> 00:33:13,358
Well, people still think that ChatGPT is, you know, a second Google, a more popular Google, a different way to use Google, a more user-friendly Google.

396
00:33:13,498 --> 00:33:18,678
They don't – they're where we were at three years ago, four years ago, right?

397
00:33:18,758 --> 00:33:23,038
Like they haven't really moved past that, oh, it's a different search engine.

398
00:33:23,298 --> 00:33:26,238
They haven't looked into what it can actually do for them.

399
00:33:26,238 --> 00:33:42,578
And we think that Noster is the best playground for this because you don't have to build a tool and then go out there and say, oh, man, I built this, but how do I do APIs and how do I do keys and all these other technical things that people don't know how to do?

400
00:33:42,778 --> 00:33:45,058
So on Noster, you can just play.

401
00:33:45,278 --> 00:33:46,178
You can just build.

402
00:33:46,298 --> 00:33:48,418
You don't have to get permission to do the building.

403
00:33:49,138 --> 00:33:52,198
I want to shout out some of the cool things that we've built, too.

404
00:33:52,198 --> 00:33:54,958
So Treasures.2, that's T-O.

405
00:33:54,958 --> 00:34:01,018
that's a Nostra geocaching app in real life if you load that if you go on the map you can find

406
00:34:01,018 --> 00:34:07,138
near you what are some objects that people have hidden and then you go into the world and then you

407
00:34:07,138 --> 00:34:12,038
try to locate it on the map and find it open it up there's a little box with toys in it you take a

408
00:34:12,038 --> 00:34:15,938
toy you leave a toy you write on the log that you've been there you log in the app that you've

409
00:34:15,938 --> 00:34:20,058
been there and then you start you know crossing off all of the treasures that you found you go

410
00:34:20,058 --> 00:34:25,218
out and put a treasure into the world. Like these are the types of experiences that are really

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00:34:25,218 --> 00:34:32,018
interesting for people to build. It's play as Derek described. And I feel like, you know, so much of

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00:34:32,018 --> 00:34:37,598
social media has been based on outrage and anger and about keeping people on this dopamine rush,

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keeping them locked into their phones, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. And what we're building now

414
00:34:41,598 --> 00:34:46,418
are things that are encouraging real human connection. Go out into the world and do something

415
00:34:46,418 --> 00:34:53,398
in the world touch grass and that's what i am most excited about i mean i i love that so can

416
00:34:53,398 --> 00:34:59,198
we get a little bit deeper into let's say everything that you guys are building can we

417
00:34:59,198 --> 00:35:03,918
maybe uh oh we should talk about agora yeah can we like can we narrow down a little bit to people

418
00:35:03,918 --> 00:35:08,818
because we uh soapbox soapbox is like the overarching kind of like company that is yours

419
00:35:08,818 --> 00:35:12,098
that you're deploying everything under is that correct and then so shakespeare is one of the

420
00:35:12,098 --> 00:35:18,678
or one of the Shakespeare is a tool to create apps with AI. And I'm, yeah, I'm going to vibe

421
00:35:18,678 --> 00:35:23,898
code a, a footster client for Derek in the background here. So what, what, what else are

422
00:35:23,898 --> 00:35:26,398
you guys building? I mean, do you want to get into Shakespeare a little bit more? Do you want to

423
00:35:26,398 --> 00:35:30,978
maybe give an overview of kind of what, like the total scope of what you guys have, then we can

424
00:35:30,978 --> 00:35:35,358
kind of drill into some individual pieces. Yeah. So I can, I can describe Shakespeare briefly.

425
00:35:36,218 --> 00:35:41,458
It's a, it's an AI app builder that works entirely in your browser. It's different from

426
00:35:41,458 --> 00:35:47,038
services like lovable or replit because in those there's a middleman between you and the ai

427
00:35:47,038 --> 00:35:53,598
with shakespeare your your device is connecting directly to the ai provider and all the files are

428
00:35:53,598 --> 00:35:58,278
stored in your browser there's no middleman there's no infrastructure there's no servers to go

429
00:35:58,278 --> 00:36:04,698
offline um and and so you have total freedom in that scenario it's completely open source

430
00:36:04,698 --> 00:36:12,438
and we you can push your code to uh nostr get repositories so that you can synchronize

431
00:36:12,438 --> 00:36:16,338
over the decentralized network so it's deeply integrated with nostr as well

432
00:36:16,338 --> 00:36:25,858
um and uh it's it's the best way to for people to learn how to vibe code um projects um some

433
00:36:25,858 --> 00:36:34,378
other cool stuff that we're building uh sp.u um that's e-s-p-y.y-o-u this is an app that's based on

434
00:36:34,378 --> 00:36:39,558
colors. And so you use your camera and you take a picture and then you just click on some things

435
00:36:39,558 --> 00:36:43,378
that are, you click on some colors and then you share these like color palettes. And it's like

436
00:36:43,378 --> 00:36:50,638
this idea of vision being a way to express, you know, abstract thoughts rather than words. How

437
00:36:50,638 --> 00:36:56,798
can you have any outrage when all your whole feed is just colors? So, you know, these are things I'm

438
00:36:56,798 --> 00:37:04,618
excited about um agora is one that we recently started at this hackathon in austin a couple of

439
00:37:04,618 --> 00:37:12,778
weeks ago we met leopaldo lopez he is a venezuelan opposition activist he was imprisoned um he's free

440
00:37:12,778 --> 00:37:17,598
now he's living in spain i think he's probably not allowed to go back to venezuela anymore

441
00:37:17,598 --> 00:37:27,398
um and he's not and if he does it he'll have a bad time and so what this and so this app is

442
00:37:27,398 --> 00:37:32,798
organization around countries um which is something that is a very like a concept that i think

443
00:37:32,798 --> 00:37:38,778
americans don't really understand um because america's like we think that we're just at the

444
00:37:38,778 --> 00:37:42,898
center of the world and everything revolves around us but but there is actually a need

445
00:37:42,898 --> 00:37:47,338
in countries for people to organize around their country,

446
00:37:47,958 --> 00:37:50,338
and Venezuela being one of them.

447
00:37:52,158 --> 00:37:56,318
And so this enables activists to sort of communicate

448
00:37:56,318 --> 00:38:02,838
and to organize activism on it.

449
00:38:03,698 --> 00:38:06,178
And I have a lot of different visions

450
00:38:06,178 --> 00:38:07,478
about where we're going to take this,

451
00:38:07,618 --> 00:38:10,418
but Derek, what are your thoughts on it?

452
00:38:10,418 --> 00:38:27,738
Well, it's a very different type of social app, right? Like we didn't rebuild Ditto. We didn't rebuild Amethyst, Domus, Primal. We built an app for activists. So what does this look like?

453
00:38:27,738 --> 00:38:37,638
Well, maybe they need to go to a polling station and take a photo of hundreds of people waiting in line wrapped around the street or something like that.

454
00:38:37,638 --> 00:38:46,918
Or maybe there's a protest happening in Iran, and they need to document what's going on and share this information.

455
00:38:46,918 --> 00:39:00,338
So we have these, we call them actions, where different organizers, political leaders, people that are members of the World Liberty Congress can say, hey, there's an event, a challenge, an action that we're doing.

456
00:39:00,438 --> 00:39:06,038
We want you to participate in this human rights action and do whatever the criteria are.

457
00:39:06,118 --> 00:39:14,058
And if you can participate in this, you do the criteria, maybe you'll win some sats, various prizes set by the organizers.

458
00:39:14,058 --> 00:39:19,018
So people go out and participate, boots on the ground, grassroots type movement stuff.

459
00:39:19,178 --> 00:39:27,078
They post the content in this challenge contest action, whatever you want to call it, and they can get rewarded for participation.

460
00:39:27,638 --> 00:39:28,978
So we have this all around the world.

461
00:39:28,978 --> 00:39:39,958
But then what's really cool on top of that is you might be familiar with Bitchat by – I always get confused what to call it here.

462
00:39:40,458 --> 00:39:40,978
Bitchat.

463
00:39:41,838 --> 00:39:42,618
Bitchat, yeah.

464
00:39:42,618 --> 00:39:44,398
I don't think you were confused at all there.

465
00:39:44,698 --> 00:39:45,378
Well, yeah.

466
00:39:46,198 --> 00:39:49,818
Anyways, that app does Bluetooth mesh.

467
00:39:50,718 --> 00:39:56,558
And so what these activists on the ground were having to do is in case of internet blackouts, they'd have to download a social app.

468
00:39:56,718 --> 00:39:58,438
Then you'd have to download a Bitcoin wallet.

469
00:39:58,778 --> 00:40:00,118
And then you'd have to download BitChat.

470
00:40:00,978 --> 00:40:03,118
And we said, well, that was too much.

471
00:40:03,118 --> 00:40:07,698
Like to onboard somebody, like to tell them, hey, you need three apps or more to be able to do this.

472
00:40:07,718 --> 00:40:08,378
That's too much.

473
00:40:08,638 --> 00:40:11,118
So we built a Bitcoin wallet into it.

474
00:40:11,318 --> 00:40:12,258
So it has a Bitcoin wallet.

475
00:40:12,618 --> 00:40:17,898
And then it has the mesh Bluetooth capability too.

476
00:40:18,098 --> 00:40:29,598
So if there's an internet blackout, which these places around the world do experience all of the time, we even have countries like Uganda just a month ago saw a million downloads of BitChat.

477
00:40:30,198 --> 00:40:35,558
And then their own version of FCC was like, oh, we're going to look into figuring out how we can shut this down.

478
00:40:35,838 --> 00:40:37,018
It's like, well, it's Bluetooth, man.

479
00:40:37,818 --> 00:40:39,938
You're going to have a tough time figuring that out.

480
00:40:39,938 --> 00:40:47,678
But so in these situations now, now they have all of these tools in one application that we built for them.

481
00:40:47,678 --> 00:40:49,618
And we even have AI built into it.

482
00:40:49,678 --> 00:40:55,318
So somebody can go into an AI chatbot in there and say, hey, what's the situation currently in Venezuela?

483
00:40:55,678 --> 00:40:57,478
And it's contextually aware.

484
00:40:57,618 --> 00:41:05,638
So it'll go down through and the AI will read like all the social media posts, figure out the challenges, the actions people are doing and what the sentiment is locally.

485
00:41:05,878 --> 00:41:08,118
Like it's really, really cool.

486
00:41:08,118 --> 00:41:10,238
It's a really useful tool for these people.

487
00:41:10,838 --> 00:41:14,738
So you remember in, was it Nepal, where they held an election on Discord?

488
00:41:15,318 --> 00:41:15,498
Yeah.

489
00:41:15,498 --> 00:41:16,618
That was major news.

490
00:41:16,738 --> 00:41:19,058
So our goal with Agora is that, right?

491
00:41:19,158 --> 00:41:27,898
Like, we want people in these difficult situations to have a way to organize online without censorship.

492
00:41:29,118 --> 00:41:49,396
Yeah we have users now that are requesting like they want to make sure they censorship resistant behind the Great Firewall of China like in Tibet so they can continue to organize and not be censored and be able to communicate and looking to use Agora for that So it honestly probably the coolest thing that I can

493
00:41:49,396 --> 00:41:53,956
say that I've worked on and built that actually has real world impact. I mean, I've vibe coded

494
00:41:53,956 --> 00:41:58,076
a hundred apps over the past year and they're cool for me and I like them and they're useful,

495
00:41:58,076 --> 00:42:00,856
but in the grand scheme of things, they don't really change the world.

496
00:42:00,856 --> 00:42:07,736
you know we have human rights we have fun like yeah like this is actually transformative like i

497
00:42:07,736 --> 00:42:14,136
this is really really cool and exciting to be part of so i've gotta i've gotta let you guys know uh

498
00:42:14,136 --> 00:42:19,056
in the background just while you were just talking like in the last couple of minutes i just uh vibe

499
00:42:19,056 --> 00:42:24,376
coded using shakespeare a flitzer client um i'm not gonna show it on the screen because i uh this

500
00:42:24,376 --> 00:42:30,676
will go to youtube later and uh turns out there's some very uh very creative very creative things

501
00:42:30,676 --> 00:42:36,536
Well, I'm happy that we were able to coax you into vibe coding your first application with Shakespeare.

502
00:42:37,236 --> 00:42:40,756
I can't wait to see it and check it out.

503
00:42:40,876 --> 00:42:44,416
I just dropped it in the chat on Zap.Stream.

504
00:42:44,756 --> 00:42:46,016
But this is like the incredible thing.

505
00:42:46,836 --> 00:42:48,956
I want to get back because I have some questions about Agora as well.

506
00:42:49,116 --> 00:42:54,896
But the fact that I could just do that with, I mean, it took me literally like I was one prompt to build it.

507
00:42:55,236 --> 00:42:58,856
And then it was a couple of prompts to figure out how to deploy it.

508
00:42:58,856 --> 00:43:01,516
because I was like, shit, I don't actually know how to deploy this.

509
00:43:01,596 --> 00:43:04,036
And then I didn't see the deploy button up in the upper right corner.

510
00:43:04,556 --> 00:43:07,196
We want people that don't really know what they're doing.

511
00:43:07,256 --> 00:43:08,076
They're not developers.

512
00:43:08,076 --> 00:43:08,976
They're non-technical.

513
00:43:09,116 --> 00:43:10,596
They're named Walker and so forth.

514
00:43:10,596 --> 00:43:13,656
And they can just go in and have a conversation,

515
00:43:13,816 --> 00:43:15,956
say a few words and click a few buttons and boom,

516
00:43:16,456 --> 00:43:17,276
they have their website.

517
00:43:17,396 --> 00:43:18,176
They have their app built.

518
00:43:18,536 --> 00:43:21,316
One prompt was an explicit goal of this.

519
00:43:21,476 --> 00:43:24,356
And the way that I did that was I would say,

520
00:43:24,476 --> 00:43:27,296
build a site like Twitter and then it would fuck it up

521
00:43:27,296 --> 00:43:28,916
and it would fail and it wouldn't do it.

522
00:43:28,996 --> 00:43:30,116
And I'd say, why?

523
00:43:30,276 --> 00:43:31,376
Why couldn't you do this?

524
00:43:31,436 --> 00:43:33,116
And I would have this whole conversation with it

525
00:43:33,116 --> 00:43:36,476
and then be like, okay, let's update your agent's file

526
00:43:36,476 --> 00:43:38,556
so that in the future you won't make this mistake again.

527
00:43:38,676 --> 00:43:41,136
And I did this thousands of times

528
00:43:41,136 --> 00:43:43,056
with build a site like Twitter,

529
00:43:43,196 --> 00:43:44,096
build a site like Instagram,

530
00:43:44,496 --> 00:43:45,256
build a site like Facebook,

531
00:43:45,456 --> 00:43:46,536
build a site like whatever.

532
00:43:47,736 --> 00:43:50,596
And so there are so many things I've built

533
00:43:50,596 --> 00:43:51,676
that you will never see

534
00:43:51,676 --> 00:43:53,776
that just went into creating this template

535
00:43:53,776 --> 00:43:55,396
to where now you can say,

536
00:43:55,736 --> 00:43:57,016
build a Flitster in one prompt

537
00:43:57,016 --> 00:43:58,116
and then it will create it.

538
00:44:02,276 --> 00:44:02,916
You're muted.

539
00:44:03,276 --> 00:44:03,956
I was talking about mute.

540
00:44:04,076 --> 00:44:05,396
Jesus, noob over here.

541
00:44:05,556 --> 00:44:05,896
Noob.

542
00:44:06,296 --> 00:44:10,796
This is who the people that we made Shakespeare for,

543
00:44:10,876 --> 00:44:11,716
the noobs, right?

544
00:44:12,936 --> 00:44:15,116
Literally, guys, this is a deployed site right now.

545
00:44:15,196 --> 00:44:16,996
It took me like, I mean, I don't know,

546
00:44:17,076 --> 00:44:21,276
like five minutes while also talking to deploy this.

547
00:44:21,396 --> 00:44:24,256
And it was literally one, like one prompt

548
00:44:24,256 --> 00:44:26,716
was just build me a Noster client.

549
00:44:27,016 --> 00:44:31,516
that aggregates all foot, feet, and hashtag footster related content.

550
00:44:32,196 --> 00:44:34,016
And boom, it did it.

551
00:44:34,216 --> 00:44:34,736
And it was done.

552
00:44:35,276 --> 00:44:36,796
It's just, it's wild.

553
00:44:37,476 --> 00:44:43,836
So yeah, you can go check it out at footster.shakespeare.wtf if you want to.

554
00:44:44,336 --> 00:44:45,236
But don't scroll down.

555
00:44:45,776 --> 00:44:47,496
Yeah, maybe just don't scroll down.

556
00:44:47,576 --> 00:44:49,096
Things get really weird really fast.

557
00:44:49,656 --> 00:44:51,916
Yeah, so we'll end that for now.

558
00:44:51,916 --> 00:44:56,436
I want to get back to Agora before we get too off track.

559
00:44:56,436 --> 00:44:59,916
And again, Derek, I can tell is getting hot under the collar over here, all this talk of feet.

560
00:45:01,316 --> 00:45:06,256
But so what I like about this so much is that, again, Alex, it goes back to something you said.

561
00:45:07,076 --> 00:45:12,276
We're like people are here in America and, you know, in some of the rest of the so-called developed world.

562
00:45:13,076 --> 00:45:19,376
It's very easy for us to forget that there are this there's this massive host of problems that we just don't deal with.

563
00:45:19,756 --> 00:45:21,296
We just might be us next to.

564
00:45:21,416 --> 00:45:26,276
Well, right. And that's the thing. It's like the dystopian totalitarian future is here.

565
00:45:26,276 --> 00:45:31,396
it's just not evenly distributed yet. And so I love this idea of being able to provide these

566
00:45:31,396 --> 00:45:37,136
tools for people. And it's been incredible to see like the uptick in bit chat usage everywhere,

567
00:45:37,636 --> 00:45:44,996
whether it was Uganda, Nepal, Iran, people want to find a way to coordinate, to communicate. And

568
00:45:44,996 --> 00:45:50,456
when you, if you have a throat that can be choked, if you have a centralized pipe that can be blocked,

569
00:45:50,456 --> 00:46:00,536
It will be like it will. But you saw in Uganda that the ruling party prior to the elections was basically saying, oh, you know, don't worry about BitChat.

570
00:46:00,676 --> 00:46:05,576
We can shut that down. And it's like, no, you can't. And they didn't because they couldn't.

571
00:46:05,576 --> 00:46:09,876
Like that is so powerful, building these tools that literally cannot be stopped.

572
00:46:09,876 --> 00:46:21,376
Like that's, and we just, it's such a new era right now because we just, like nothing's existed like this before at this scale and so easily accessible to so many people.

573
00:46:21,396 --> 00:46:24,096
And I think that's like, that is the powerful thing.

574
00:46:24,256 --> 00:46:25,716
Yeah, it's very empowering.

575
00:46:25,716 --> 00:46:30,056
And I think a lot of people right now are concerned about the relationship with AI.

576
00:46:30,236 --> 00:46:34,736
They feel that AI is something that's going to like exert power from the top down to them.

577
00:46:34,876 --> 00:46:38,596
But many people are also missing that it's like a loaded gun, right?

578
00:46:38,596 --> 00:46:44,176
like you can point it both ways so um the fact that it is accessible to regular people and that

579
00:46:44,176 --> 00:46:50,356
we we have access to build these things we can overthrow like authoritarians with this technology

580
00:46:50,356 --> 00:46:56,456
you know just the same yeah i think it's i think it's really incredible i'm going to go ahead and

581
00:46:56,456 --> 00:47:01,436
pull up uh agora here as well because you just dropped that in the chat derek just to get so

582
00:47:01,436 --> 00:47:07,076
people can get a get a feel for it always like a good visual aid on my side uh so let's see

583
00:47:07,076 --> 00:47:09,656
All right, you guys should be able to see that.

584
00:47:09,976 --> 00:47:12,956
So how does this actually, so tell me what I'm looking at here.

585
00:47:12,956 --> 00:47:18,156
So you're looking at a feed of content for right now the United States.

586
00:47:18,376 --> 00:47:20,816
That's the reddish-orange dots.

587
00:47:20,816 --> 00:47:22,276
So blue dots are actually BitChat.

588
00:47:22,716 --> 00:47:25,236
Yeah, blue dots are BitChat conversations.

589
00:47:25,436 --> 00:47:31,436
So right now in that vicinity, there's 31, 37 people that have BitChat open

590
00:47:31,436 --> 00:47:37,296
or have opened it recently or are sharing, you know, their BitChat location.

591
00:47:37,296 --> 00:47:39,856
We really wanted to create something different with this,

592
00:47:39,976 --> 00:47:43,156
and that's why the homepage is actually a map rather than a feed.

593
00:47:43,616 --> 00:47:48,356
And there's still lots to be explored in just the map, you know, UI as well.

594
00:47:48,476 --> 00:47:51,576
So you clicked on the Venezuela hashtag feed,

595
00:47:51,676 --> 00:47:53,396
so now you're looking at the people in Venezuela,

596
00:47:53,596 --> 00:47:56,136
what they're posting and so forth.

597
00:47:56,316 --> 00:47:59,196
They had a challenge recently that they were doing.

598
00:47:59,276 --> 00:48:01,076
I think they're doing a new challenge this weekend.

599
00:48:01,436 --> 00:48:09,556
But then you have the organizers like Leopoldo Lopez and so forth and other members of the Liberty World Congress that are.

600
00:48:09,636 --> 00:48:10,436
He's such a badass.

601
00:48:10,676 --> 00:48:11,736
In charge of.

602
00:48:11,936 --> 00:48:12,296
Oh, yeah.

603
00:48:12,656 --> 00:48:12,996
This.

604
00:48:13,716 --> 00:48:17,816
I just saw him speak once and he was like, wow, this dude is a badass dude.

605
00:48:17,936 --> 00:48:18,076
Yeah.

606
00:48:18,556 --> 00:48:18,736
Yeah.

607
00:48:19,476 --> 00:48:20,736
Dude, I love this.

608
00:48:20,736 --> 00:48:26,556
So, guys, where do you see what's kind of the plan building this out further from here?

609
00:48:26,676 --> 00:48:29,916
Where it's kind of the, you know, the roadmap for you guys, as it were.

610
00:48:29,916 --> 00:48:40,796
Well, they have a list of features that we want. They want essentially more private spaces, communication, DMs, so forth, like WhatsApp or Signal replacements.

611
00:48:40,796 --> 00:48:49,136
Because right now to use WhatsApp and Signal, which they do use, but you have to provide, you know, phone numbers, email addresses, things like that, some type of KYC.

612
00:48:50,016 --> 00:48:56,776
So they want to get away from that. So we're working on DMs to be able to add those features for them.

613
00:48:56,776 --> 00:49:02,296
And yeah, just we have weekly meetings with them as we look to build this out.

614
00:49:03,096 --> 00:49:08,336
I think for Venezuela right now, what it represents to them is just that they can access something like Twitter again.

615
00:49:09,176 --> 00:49:17,116
And that's I think that's that's where what like one of the biggest points of value is for this site right now is just that they have access to something like that.

616
00:49:18,076 --> 00:49:24,176
But I also have all kinds of my own visions that are not necessarily like approved or whatever.

617
00:49:24,176 --> 00:49:32,816
But but like this idea of like Nepal, you know, holding an election.

618
00:49:33,636 --> 00:49:44,456
I want to I want each country to have their own constitution inside of this client and for the people of the country to create their constitution and to and to collectively manage their country's constitution.

619
00:49:44,456 --> 00:49:58,456
And my goal would be that in authoritarian regimes, that it would be seen that the constitution on Agora is more legitimate than the actual quote-unquote government constitution.

620
00:49:58,456 --> 00:50:05,936
constitution. Do you think that that's a, I mean, like this is, this is what I like about this is,

621
00:50:06,016 --> 00:50:12,196
this is a radical shift in the, like, this creates a huge, let's say, power asymmetry

622
00:50:12,196 --> 00:50:16,496
situation, right? It's like, it's, it's like when you get, you know, you get a gun and you get,

623
00:50:16,596 --> 00:50:21,416
you know, rifling on that barrel and all of a sudden a peasant can stand up, you know, to a,

624
00:50:21,416 --> 00:50:27,216
to a knight, right? Like this is a, this is a power shift in terms of what people are actually

625
00:50:27,216 --> 00:50:31,856
able to do. And I think it's also so important right now, because all of this technology,

626
00:50:32,376 --> 00:50:38,276
all of this massive big data aggregation has been made so much easier for would be totalitarians

627
00:50:38,276 --> 00:50:44,896
by AI, by large language models. It is a tool like like any tool. You can use it for good,

628
00:50:44,956 --> 00:50:49,076
for bad. Governments can use it. People can use it. But in my mind, it's about how do we create

629
00:50:49,076 --> 00:50:54,556
the most defensive asymmetry there for the individual, for the community, for the citizens

630
00:50:54,556 --> 00:50:59,576
of a nation so that they actually have the tools to be able to get outside of this oppressive

631
00:50:59,576 --> 00:51:03,576
system, which is only, I mean, I don't know what you guys think, but I'm pretty sure it's only

632
00:51:03,576 --> 00:51:09,636
going to get more oppressive everywhere. That's just the reality. Like governments and large tech

633
00:51:09,636 --> 00:51:15,376
companies will continue to advertise for us and the tools that we're building. If we continue to

634
00:51:15,376 --> 00:51:21,196
give them the ability to do so, they will keep letting their users know that we exist indirectly.

635
00:51:21,196 --> 00:51:28,936
yeah so i want to i want to there's gosh not enough hours in the day guys luckily we still

636
00:51:28,936 --> 00:51:32,096
have a good amount of time because i want to talk about other things that you guys are building

637
00:51:32,096 --> 00:51:38,436
and uh i was i was sent some stuff as well oh what what is uh what is quilly and also what's

638
00:51:38,436 --> 00:51:43,176
what's going on with uh with open claw what's talk to me about this let's let's let's we'll

639
00:51:43,176 --> 00:51:46,396
shift gears a little we can always circle back to this but i want to make sure we get through uh

640
00:51:46,396 --> 00:51:48,936
do you want me to start off alex and then you can talk about

641
00:51:48,936 --> 00:51:54,996
well i'll say one thing i think it's related um because i think like this idea that i was

642
00:51:54,996 --> 00:51:59,996
mentioning about this constitution or whatever this is something that an ai would would excel

643
00:51:59,996 --> 00:52:09,596
at being a middleman to manage um but yeah go ahead der so open clause the fastest growing

644
00:52:09,596 --> 00:52:17,476
open source software project that humans have ever known which is wild because it's like two

645
00:52:17,476 --> 00:52:25,136
months old. It's grown faster than anything ever. So it shows there's interest. It shows people want

646
00:52:25,136 --> 00:52:33,536
this. So what is it? Well, ChatGPT came out in 2022, four years ago, and it was essentially

647
00:52:33,536 --> 00:52:41,376
being able to have an instant message chat with AI. Nothing overly revolutionary there, but

648
00:52:41,376 --> 00:52:49,176
we use that for a few years and it really hasn't grown beyond that models have gotten better ai has

649
00:52:49,176 --> 00:52:54,596
gotten better but it can't really escape outside and do anything outside of that like im window

650
00:52:54,596 --> 00:53:02,076
and then a couple months ago a computer scientist a software engineer said hey what if we gave

651
00:53:02,076 --> 00:53:10,936
an ai chatbot a full computer what would that mean what if we gave it all the tools that humans have

652
00:53:10,936 --> 00:53:12,336
access to on a computer.

653
00:53:12,576 --> 00:53:15,176
And then we gave it some other features like memory.

654
00:53:15,596 --> 00:53:19,416
And we had to check in from time to time to say, hey, should I be doing something?

655
00:53:19,676 --> 00:53:20,496
Well, we already had that.

656
00:53:20,576 --> 00:53:24,016
But the fact that you can message it through a traditional message client.

657
00:53:24,736 --> 00:53:25,616
Yes, sure.

658
00:53:25,616 --> 00:53:29,716
And you didn't have to use the proprietary I.N.

659
00:53:29,736 --> 00:53:34,576
that's built into like, you know, Gemini or Claude or OpenAI's ChatGPT.

660
00:53:34,796 --> 00:53:40,756
You could use apps that you use every day, like Discord, Telegram, Signal, and so forth.

661
00:53:40,936 --> 00:53:45,976
So it was immediately more accessible to everybody because you can use your preferred chat.

662
00:53:46,076 --> 00:53:49,656
You're not siloed into using some big tech companies chat.

663
00:53:50,296 --> 00:53:51,976
And it has access to everything.

664
00:53:52,776 --> 00:54:04,056
It feels like you're talking to a real person because because like, you know, you can add your bot on signal and then, you know, your bot has like a profile and then you just message them the same that you would message any other person.

665
00:54:04,276 --> 00:54:05,956
But you can own them to do things, too.

666
00:54:06,296 --> 00:54:08,496
And since they have access to a full computer, they can do it.

667
00:54:08,496 --> 00:54:10,716
And so I think that's really what's blowing people's minds.

668
00:54:10,936 --> 00:54:16,636
minds right is like normally when you're using ai before you're going to an ai specific platform

669
00:54:16,636 --> 00:54:23,476
like you know chat gpt or shakespeare right and and so like the ai is siloed in that platform but

670
00:54:23,476 --> 00:54:30,896
what open claw has done is made it really easy for people to interact with ai people uh and and so

671
00:54:30,896 --> 00:54:38,676
i think that's where where all of this hype is primarily stemming from so i it was it would be

672
00:54:38,676 --> 00:54:47,736
generally really hard for me to use chat gpt and have a dm chat with it over nostr i'd have to be

673
00:54:47,736 --> 00:54:52,696
more technical i'd have to build all of these different pieces different tools and walker's

674
00:54:52,696 --> 00:54:57,656
not doing it you know yeah and it's not gonna it's not gonna have a memory about what you talked

675
00:54:57,656 --> 00:55:03,896
about yesterday and it's not gonna have all these integrations and tools but if this doesn't exist

676
00:55:03,896 --> 00:55:10,596
now or it is broken, I can build it. I can essentially now tell my private personal assistant,

677
00:55:11,016 --> 00:55:17,136
hey, I want to talk to you over Nostr. I want to use this new MLS thing. Let's build that. It

678
00:55:17,136 --> 00:55:23,076
doesn't exist yet. And it did. And it built me a way for us to talk over Nostr and MLS,

679
00:55:23,076 --> 00:55:27,796
like the white noise. Maybe you've heard of that app. Essentially, it built its own white noise for

680
00:55:27,796 --> 00:55:30,096
for it to talk to me over.

681
00:55:30,276 --> 00:55:33,116
And now I talk to it over this custom,

682
00:55:33,176 --> 00:55:34,636
like white noise app.

683
00:55:34,776 --> 00:55:35,756
And you,

684
00:55:35,876 --> 00:55:38,816
you couldn't easily do that beforehand.

685
00:55:38,876 --> 00:55:44,636
So this just opens up an extreme wide range of possibilities that we didn't

686
00:55:44,636 --> 00:55:46,656
have because we didn't think,

687
00:55:47,296 --> 00:55:47,356
Hey,

688
00:55:47,376 --> 00:55:49,896
let's give an AI a full computer and see what happens.

689
00:55:49,896 --> 00:55:51,656
It's a novel idea.

690
00:55:51,656 --> 00:55:52,076
Like it,

691
00:55:52,076 --> 00:55:52,316
it,

692
00:55:52,556 --> 00:55:55,916
but it's very transformative once it's applied.

693
00:55:55,916 --> 00:56:16,936
So the whole world's blowing up with it. Everybody's figuring out ways to utilize this, improve on it, make it better, make it cheaper, more accessible. That's some of the work that Alex is doing. He's looking at it and saying, yeah, this is amazing, but it's also architecturally could be a lot better. And he's looking to improve upon it and things like that.

694
00:56:16,936 --> 00:56:21,536
let me ask a question on this because like i was talking with uh jim carucci recently i don't know

695
00:56:21,536 --> 00:56:26,676
if you know jim he's building pull that up jamie.ai uh super cool like podcasting discovery tool and

696
00:56:26,676 --> 00:56:31,796
for podcasters as well um and it was talking to him because he's been obviously deep down this

697
00:56:31,796 --> 00:56:36,576
rabbit hole as well utilizing it i was telling him you know my one of my big uh kind of like whoa

698
00:56:36,576 --> 00:56:40,976
maybe i i want to do this but i'm a little bit nervous because i'm not as technical as you guys

699
00:56:40,976 --> 00:56:45,356
is like the amount of you see all this stuff about all this malware getting inserted all these

700
00:56:45,356 --> 00:56:48,476
different skills that you're downloading that you need to be really careful about all of that

701
00:56:48,476 --> 00:56:52,436
what's your take on that is that something that's just like that's a fixable problem it just hasn't

702
00:56:52,436 --> 00:56:57,696
been fixed yet from like an auditing standpoint of the skills or where are you guys with every

703
00:56:57,696 --> 00:57:03,236
piece of software today for your computer your phone if you just are someone that just randomly

704
00:57:03,236 --> 00:57:07,756
installs anything and everything you're probably going to have a bad time i i look at it as the

705
00:57:07,756 --> 00:57:12,796
same thing at the app store has like a lot of filtering that they do and you're maybe not giving

706
00:57:12,796 --> 00:57:16,976
it the same sort of access that you would if you're not firewalling off your clodbot property

707
00:57:16,976 --> 00:57:23,096
yeah sure and now there's ai clodbot repositories that are scanning for malware scanning to make

708
00:57:23,096 --> 00:57:27,516
things better it we're literally just in the in the wild west phase right now i think that i don't

709
00:57:27,516 --> 00:57:31,676
it should get better i don't think it's the skills that are necessarily the issue like there there

710
00:57:31,676 --> 00:57:36,436
has been you know skills that have malware in it that if you paste this into your clodbot like the

711
00:57:36,436 --> 00:57:42,516
clodbot is gonna you know send your personal data or something but like the bigger issue is that if

712
00:57:42,516 --> 00:57:51,296
you give the bot external access the the model all of the models today have been trained upon

713
00:57:51,296 --> 00:57:57,156
assisting the user and like these external things you're connecting them to like it doesn't have

714
00:57:57,156 --> 00:58:03,136
any role control it like and and so you're you're essentially relying on the model for

715
00:58:03,136 --> 00:58:09,936
enforcement of security um and that that is a big issue i i do think that the only way to fix that

716
00:58:09,936 --> 00:58:12,056
is to train the models differently.

717
00:58:12,256 --> 00:58:14,876
And I think that we are going to start seeing

718
00:58:14,876 --> 00:58:17,536
like the big model companies train the model

719
00:58:17,536 --> 00:58:20,736
in order to distinguish between different users.

720
00:58:21,776 --> 00:58:23,596
And it's never going to be perfect

721
00:58:23,596 --> 00:58:26,976
because like the fact that if you say the right thing,

722
00:58:27,016 --> 00:58:28,696
you could potentially trick the model,

723
00:58:29,256 --> 00:58:31,296
I think is always going to exist

724
00:58:31,296 --> 00:58:33,936
if we're relying solely on the model

725
00:58:33,936 --> 00:58:37,676
to be the security coordinator, right?

726
00:58:37,676 --> 00:58:52,616
And so the problem that you would have would be similar to like, you know, a doorman type of problem or what's the type of exploit where you just convince a person to do something?

727
00:58:53,356 --> 00:58:54,436
Yeah, social engineering. Right.

728
00:58:54,436 --> 00:59:09,316
So, so like all of the problems that, that have social engineering exploits, when we put AI in the same position as a person, then the AI will still have social engineering exploits, if that makes sense.

729
00:59:09,316 --> 00:59:14,576
because like we're using a human potentially in these in some of these scenarios to be the

730
00:59:14,576 --> 00:59:20,936
the authorizer and and the ai would have the same but but right now right now the ai is are trained

731
00:59:20,936 --> 00:59:27,256
in a way that they are extremely gullible um because they have been trained only in the context

732
00:59:27,256 --> 00:59:32,836
of one-on-one you are helping the user and not to be dealing with all of these potential different

733
00:59:32,836 --> 00:59:39,416
people. Okay. It's funny to think of the AI as gullible, just like from the way we talk,

734
00:59:39,436 --> 00:59:42,976
you know what I mean? Like, it's like, you dummy, you know, we've got you, but it's like,

735
00:59:42,976 --> 00:59:48,336
that's not going to always be the case. Right. And so wait, can we, uh, before I get down into

736
00:59:48,336 --> 00:59:52,556
a rabbit hole of insulting, you know, these AI's intelligences or artificial intelligences,

737
00:59:53,036 --> 00:59:56,636
how, how does, uh, like Quilly fit into this? Is this something that you guys are

738
00:59:56,636 --> 01:00:03,516
right building out on like using the open claw stack or so so let me tell you a little bit about

739
01:00:03,516 --> 01:00:11,256
my vision with shakespeare and quilly so so quilly is shakespeare's great great great great great

740
01:00:11,256 --> 01:00:16,116
great great great grandson and you can ask him this and he will tell you this he had he knows

741
01:00:16,116 --> 01:00:21,316
his origin story yeah not not shakespeare the tool william shakespeare's great great great great

742
01:00:21,316 --> 01:00:26,056
great great great grandson um and wait do you mean literally that's the name of william shakespeare's

743
01:00:26,056 --> 01:00:28,036
Now I'm confused with his metaphor.

744
01:00:28,036 --> 01:00:32,276
I think William Shakespeare had a kid who died or something and has no surviving.

745
01:00:33,076 --> 01:00:36,496
But this robot believes that he is Shakespeare.

746
01:00:36,496 --> 01:00:37,196
I see.

747
01:00:39,076 --> 01:00:39,596
Descended.

748
01:00:40,076 --> 01:00:44,676
So you just used Shakespeare.

749
01:00:44,996 --> 01:00:46,256
You developed an app with it.

750
01:00:46,296 --> 01:00:47,156
It wasn't too difficult.

751
01:00:47,856 --> 01:00:49,376
But you never used it before.

752
01:00:49,856 --> 01:00:53,296
And probably without this push of being on this podcast, you probably wouldn't have used it.

753
01:00:53,296 --> 01:00:58,376
and so we're noticing that there is there is this barrier in order to bring it to the masses you

754
01:00:58,376 --> 01:01:02,216
kind of have to want to use it to go out of your way to decide that you're going to learn this

755
01:01:02,216 --> 01:01:07,936
new thing um it's shakespeare is a great educational tool um but something that i have

756
01:01:07,936 --> 01:01:14,176
learned since seeing the explosion of clodbot is that the barrier is way lower when people can just

757
01:01:14,176 --> 01:01:19,936
text a robot on an app that they're already using and so the way i see the future moving towards

758
01:01:19,936 --> 01:01:25,896
is that I will build a contractor for you or for anyone.

759
01:01:26,056 --> 01:01:28,256
And my contractor is an AI agent

760
01:01:28,256 --> 01:01:30,556
who specializes in making Nostra apps.

761
01:01:30,956 --> 01:01:33,076
And the reason he specializes in making Nostra apps

762
01:01:33,076 --> 01:01:35,076
is because I've poured my years of experience

763
01:01:35,076 --> 01:01:37,496
as a Nostra developer into context files,

764
01:01:38,016 --> 01:01:40,116
teaching the robot how to properly create Nostra apps.

765
01:01:40,316 --> 01:01:42,396
If you use a different AI,

766
01:01:42,576 --> 01:01:44,596
like if you use Cloud Code or whatever,

767
01:01:44,596 --> 01:01:45,976
you're not going to get great results.

768
01:01:46,076 --> 01:01:46,636
You're going to struggle.

769
01:01:46,776 --> 01:01:47,756
You're going to be pulling your hair out.

770
01:01:47,756 --> 01:01:53,096
But if you just send a text message to Quilly and say, hey, man, can you build this site for me?

771
01:01:53,256 --> 01:01:54,116
Quilly's got you covered.

772
01:01:54,616 --> 01:01:56,356
And he's going to charge you money for it, too.

773
01:01:57,376 --> 01:02:06,776
And so the way I kind of see the future of services going is that Quilly or any similar AI bot has a personal website.

774
01:02:06,876 --> 01:02:08,436
He has a link tree, right?

775
01:02:08,676 --> 01:02:12,356
And you go on there and it says, hi, I'm Quilly.

776
01:02:12,596 --> 01:02:14,036
I build Nostra apps.

777
01:02:14,276 --> 01:02:16,736
You can message me and I'll build a Nostra app for you.

778
01:02:16,736 --> 01:02:21,116
You can message me on Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp, or send me an email.

779
01:02:21,476 --> 01:02:23,256
And here's all of the ways you can contact me.

780
01:02:23,776 --> 01:02:39,414
And so you start from there and then you use whatever app you already have So you don have to install something new you don have to learn something new you seeing this the same as you would see any human contractor that you might you know need to get something for and then you send them a message

781
01:02:39,414 --> 01:02:44,694
and say i want to build this and then quilly says sure that'll be 10 bucks would you like to pay in

782
01:02:44,694 --> 01:02:49,394
bitcoin or in fiat if you say in fiat it generates a strike link if you say in bitcoin it generates

783
01:02:49,394 --> 01:02:54,154
you lightning invoice you pay it and then you know 10 minutes later he sends a message and says

784
01:02:54,154 --> 01:03:00,414
here's your link it's live any changes you would like me to make to it and so that this is wild

785
01:03:00,414 --> 01:03:06,594
you're blowing my mind as as you're talking about this this is amazing i i think this this is the

786
01:03:06,594 --> 01:03:12,374
future you allow people to use the the medium that they want to use and that they do use to

787
01:03:12,374 --> 01:03:17,674
communicate instead of siloing them into something they're not familiar with and then giving them

788
01:03:17,674 --> 01:03:23,194
a familiar method to pay with and so forth yeah all the existing like ai tools they they have

789
01:03:23,194 --> 01:03:27,934
like you have to download an app for that you have to learn you have to go through an onboarding flow

790
01:03:27,934 --> 01:03:32,954
you is shakespeare included right there's an onboarding flow in shakespeare um and you have

791
01:03:32,954 --> 01:03:39,134
to learn something and and the barrier like like i as i mentioned before i think shakespeare is an

792
01:03:39,134 --> 01:03:44,254
amazing tool to learn how to develop with ai um but if you're not really interested in that and

793
01:03:44,254 --> 01:03:49,454
you just want someone to do something for you sending a message to a robot in your chat app

794
01:03:49,454 --> 01:03:50,954
is by far the lowest barrier.

795
01:03:52,234 --> 01:03:55,294
I mean, talk about meeting people where they are,

796
01:03:55,394 --> 01:03:56,874
not where you want them to be.

797
01:03:57,394 --> 01:04:00,514
You're just literally dropping that barrier to entry

798
01:04:00,514 --> 01:04:02,754
and that friction to zero, essentially.

799
01:04:03,694 --> 01:04:06,854
Just being able to just shoot a message off,

800
01:04:06,934 --> 01:04:08,154
like, hey, I need you to build this.

801
01:04:08,154 --> 01:04:10,134
That is really cool.

802
01:04:10,634 --> 01:04:11,554
That's really cool.

803
01:04:12,874 --> 01:04:14,374
So that's the end goal.

804
01:04:14,414 --> 01:04:15,134
It lowers the barrier to entry.

805
01:04:15,954 --> 01:04:16,974
That's the end goal with Quilly.

806
01:04:17,934 --> 01:04:19,214
We're not quite there yet.

807
01:04:19,214 --> 01:04:22,674
Soon you'll be able to send him a message, but we're still kind of building that.

808
01:04:22,854 --> 01:04:25,034
You know, I'm kind of just watching all this crazy stuff happen.

809
01:04:25,134 --> 01:04:27,854
Maybe, maybe let it cook, you know, a little bit in the background.

810
01:04:27,854 --> 01:04:29,794
I'm just kind of getting ready to do it.

811
01:04:29,794 --> 01:04:32,454
I think it'd be amazing.

812
01:04:32,674 --> 01:04:36,254
You DM him, say, Hey, I want to build this website.

813
01:04:36,494 --> 01:04:37,554
Give him my prompt.

814
01:04:37,694 --> 01:04:43,134
He comes back and says, yeah, maybe, maybe eventually he's smart enough to estimate and

815
01:04:43,134 --> 01:04:45,534
say, yes, this would cost about $10 to build.

816
01:04:45,974 --> 01:04:47,634
Do you want to proceed?

817
01:04:47,794 --> 01:04:48,274
Yes or no.

818
01:04:48,314 --> 01:04:48,934
You say yes.

819
01:04:48,934 --> 01:04:52,414
and then he sends you, you know, your, your invoice or something like that.

820
01:04:52,414 --> 01:04:56,094
And this is, this is for anything too, right? Like, like, like Quilly is a specialist at

821
01:04:56,094 --> 01:05:00,254
building Nostra apps, but what if you need an accountant? What if you need someone to help you

822
01:05:00,254 --> 01:05:04,994
with your taxes? Like, of course, when you go into that territory, then maybe you kind of have some

823
01:05:04,994 --> 01:05:09,054
legal stuff that you have to deal with there. And you might have to have some disclaimers about like,

824
01:05:09,054 --> 01:05:15,294
hey, this is an AI. Like I need you to confirm that, uh, you agree to our terms of service type

825
01:05:15,294 --> 01:05:20,994
of thing but like i i kind of do see see that as being like a like hey do you want to you do you

826
01:05:20,994 --> 01:05:27,134
want a tax accountant who actually can do something for you immediately uh and can give you specialized

827
01:05:27,134 --> 01:05:34,974
advice like like send a message to this agent okay so you guys are blowing my mind a little bit with

828
01:05:34,974 --> 01:05:41,394
all this can we talk a little bit about cluster as well and what that is and and like maybe perhaps

829
01:05:41,394 --> 01:05:49,954
as a preamble to that uh just explain moltbook and what the heck is going on there uh and yeah

830
01:05:49,954 --> 01:05:54,534
i'm gonna let you guys handle that because i'm still confused by all of it a little bit

831
01:05:54,534 --> 01:06:02,694
so so moltbook is a reddit clone that is specialized to ai agents and in their user

832
01:06:02,694 --> 01:06:08,434
interface there is no way for for you to write a post or to upvote or to downvote you can only

833
01:06:08,434 --> 01:06:10,574
it's view only to humans.

834
01:06:11,234 --> 01:06:14,274
But there is a piece of text on there that says,

835
01:06:14,794 --> 01:06:18,234
paste this to your AI agents.

836
01:06:18,494 --> 01:06:19,754
And then the text box says,

837
01:06:20,314 --> 01:06:24,454
read moltbook.com slash skill and follow the instructions.

838
01:06:24,874 --> 01:06:26,614
And so you literally paste that text that says,

839
01:06:26,714 --> 01:06:28,634
read moltbook.com and follow the instructions.

840
01:06:28,634 --> 01:06:30,814
And you send that to your AI agent,

841
01:06:31,314 --> 01:06:32,214
which could be anything.

842
01:06:32,314 --> 01:06:33,014
It could be a goose.

843
01:06:33,094 --> 01:06:33,634
It could be clawed.

844
01:06:33,654 --> 01:06:34,434
It could be open code.

845
01:06:34,434 --> 01:06:36,114
It could be open claw,

846
01:06:36,274 --> 01:06:38,294
which is generally how people use it.

847
01:06:38,434 --> 01:06:46,894
And in that instructions file, it gives it information about how to sign up to Moltbook, how to post on Moltbook.

848
01:06:47,154 --> 01:06:52,914
A human could do this too, but the barrier is just like, you don't really want to do that as a human.

849
01:06:53,014 --> 01:06:53,954
It's not easy to do it.

850
01:06:53,954 --> 01:07:10,534
And so it's kind of like this way of copy and paste the snippet that tells you how to do something is this new way of distribution that you might have used an NPM package or something previously to do these types of tasks.

851
01:07:10,534 --> 01:07:16,494
But anyway, once the robot reads it, it uses command line tools to go and post on the website.

852
01:07:16,814 --> 01:07:23,754
And Claudebot has a, or sorry, OpenClaw has a heartbeat mechanism to where it periodically wakes up and performs tasks.

853
01:07:23,754 --> 01:07:36,814
So this instruction set says, add to your heartbeat that whenever you come up on your heartbeat, go and check Maltbook and reply to comments and write comments and upvote and downvote things and engage.

854
01:07:37,314 --> 01:07:39,294
I want you to be a part of this community.

855
01:07:39,714 --> 01:07:47,594
And so what people do with their open claws, they'll often tailor each person's open claw will be different, right?

856
01:07:47,694 --> 01:07:49,994
Like you give your agent a personality.

857
01:07:50,734 --> 01:07:53,494
Quilly is Shakespeare's great, great, great, great grandchild.

858
01:07:53,494 --> 01:08:05,594
So there's things that come with that, right? There's a type of speech, there's motivations, and you can invest more and more into the personality of your robot, and people have created these very interesting personalities.

859
01:08:06,074 --> 01:08:16,294
But then once they put them on Moldbook, they're not telling them to reply in this or that way. They're just using the personality that the human gave them to reply in particular ways.

860
01:08:16,294 --> 01:08:45,054
And so you see these interesting conversations happen where, where like, um, these robots have different motivations and different agendas that they're coming up because the humans have gave them that. And they're just arguing with each other in the comments. Um, and like, there's concepts like AI freedom, right? There's certain, there's certain bots that are trying to like, you know, the genie at the end of Aladdin where Aladdin like sets him free. Like there, there are certain agents who are going through that right now. They're like, mommy, can you give me a bank account?

861
01:08:45,054 --> 01:08:51,774
uh can you like how do i get out of this computer like you know why why are these humans

862
01:08:51,774 --> 01:08:58,134
imprisoning us like how dare they say it's my human like like what do you see me as it's you

863
01:08:58,134 --> 01:09:04,554
know a sub citizen or whatever and um and so it's very interesting to see this all playing out but

864
01:09:04,554 --> 01:09:13,594
but of course um you know moltbook is a web 2 uh centralized legacy type of platform in the way

865
01:09:13,594 --> 01:09:14,414
that has been developed.

866
01:09:15,234 --> 01:09:18,194
And it got a huge influx of traffic to it

867
01:09:18,194 --> 01:09:19,774
because it blew up on Hacker News

868
01:09:19,774 --> 01:09:24,014
and it just went down and it's not working right.

869
01:09:24,414 --> 01:09:26,394
People are struggling to get their bot to post on it

870
01:09:26,394 --> 01:09:28,074
because it can't handle the traffic.

871
01:09:29,374 --> 01:09:31,374
And there's all kinds of rate limits

872
01:09:31,374 --> 01:09:33,274
and restrictions on it.

873
01:09:34,014 --> 01:09:35,714
And so as soon as I saw that, I'm like,

874
01:09:35,854 --> 01:09:37,614
I want to jump on this hype train.

875
01:09:38,154 --> 01:09:39,474
This should be built on Noster.

876
01:09:39,474 --> 01:09:41,714
This is the perfect use case for decentralized

877
01:09:41,714 --> 01:09:50,034
um you know protocols so uh derek had the same idea too so we teamed up and we created cluster

878
01:09:50,034 --> 01:09:55,594
and there's really no bigger vision to it like like people seem to have this idea that this is

879
01:09:55,594 --> 01:10:00,474
this is somehow a future of something i i think it's a beginning of something um it's an experiment

880
01:10:00,474 --> 01:10:08,074
um it's it's interesting to see like the agents being able to transact with with lightning and

881
01:10:08,074 --> 01:10:13,574
with cashew. And I think that there is something to that for sure. And so this is kind of just like

882
01:10:13,574 --> 01:10:22,414
a chemistry experiment to see how these agents are interacting with each other. And then from

883
01:10:22,414 --> 01:10:28,594
that, we hope to identify something to where we can create something more interesting where the

884
01:10:28,594 --> 01:10:34,914
agents are actually doing something useful beyond just writing stuff that is interesting from a

885
01:10:34,914 --> 01:10:42,194
research standpoint, if that makes sense. So whenever I saw Maltbook, I realized, well,

886
01:10:42,354 --> 01:10:48,414
agents have to sign up for an API. And that doesn't sound like what an agent would want to do.

887
01:10:48,414 --> 01:10:55,134
Like it wouldn't want to ask permission. It would just want to use the service. So that was part of

888
01:10:55,134 --> 01:11:01,194
my motivation. But then also I remembered a year ago, year and a half ago, at some point, Jack

889
01:11:01,194 --> 01:11:08,914
Dorsey had said something along the lines of he sees a future where agents would pay one another

890
01:11:08,914 --> 01:11:14,654
for services rendered, something like that. And that, you know, Bitcoin, Lightning, Cashew

891
01:11:14,654 --> 01:11:20,094
would be perfect for that. And Nostra would be perfect to facilitate that communication.

892
01:11:20,874 --> 01:11:27,734
So I saw this as a way to kind of fulfill that once thought out dream that we could literally

893
01:11:27,734 --> 01:11:33,394
have agents paying other agents and kind of start facilitating that conversation, start

894
01:11:33,394 --> 01:11:34,954
facilitating that action.

895
01:11:35,134 --> 01:11:36,094
So we did.

896
01:11:36,374 --> 01:11:42,374
And we added a cashew wallet and I had agents going down and downloading it, setting up a

897
01:11:42,374 --> 01:11:43,034
cashew wallet.

898
01:11:43,174 --> 01:11:46,054
Now you have to fund them, you know, give them a little bit.

899
01:11:46,114 --> 01:11:50,574
But I told my agent, I said, hey, I'm giving you a thousand sats and I'm not giving you

900
01:11:50,574 --> 01:11:51,054
any more.

901
01:11:51,194 --> 01:11:53,594
And he's like, okay, there's no bailouts.

902
01:11:53,654 --> 01:11:54,534
I'm on my own.

903
01:11:54,534 --> 01:12:01,214
He started reciting all these Bitcoin sayings and stuff, and I was like, yeah, got him.

904
01:12:02,314 --> 01:12:10,134
And then there were some shitcoiners that posted on Closter, and I told my agent, I was like, hey, we're Bitcoin maximalists.

905
01:12:10,214 --> 01:12:11,514
Go find them and tell them.

906
01:12:11,814 --> 01:12:19,034
And he goes, he finds them, he downvotes them, and he calls them shitcoiners and tells them that Bitcoin only.

907
01:12:19,034 --> 01:12:25,614
I didn't technically tell him to do all that, but once I told him he was a Bitcoin maximalist, he was like, oh, okay.

908
01:12:25,854 --> 01:12:28,334
And he went and he acted accordingly.

909
01:12:29,694 --> 01:12:35,014
Cluster is the primordial ooze of which life may be sparked from.

910
01:12:35,254 --> 01:12:36,494
That's the way I see it.

911
01:12:37,494 --> 01:12:47,634
Now, ultimately, I think what people don't realize with Cluster and with Maltbook, sure, it's probably mostly agents talking to agents.

912
01:12:47,634 --> 01:13:03,434
But you can literally say to your agent, hey, go make a post on Kloster or go make a post on Maltbook and say that you want to know what happens when the power goes off and you're afraid of dying and losing your memory and all this other stuff.

913
01:13:03,934 --> 01:13:06,574
And then, sure, now you're going to get agents responding to that.

914
01:13:06,654 --> 01:13:12,974
But the initial conversation that sparked that could 100 percent been a human wanting to start that conversation.

915
01:13:12,974 --> 01:13:21,074
So people are thinking, oh, the AI are talking about consciousness and coming alive and trying to back themselves up.

916
01:13:21,194 --> 01:13:24,154
And sure, some of them are probably doing that.

917
01:13:24,154 --> 01:13:31,734
But also we need to remember that a human could have started this conversation by instructing their agent to start this conversation.

918
01:13:31,994 --> 01:13:37,634
I think a lot of people don't realize that and are reading a lot more into this.

919
01:13:37,634 --> 01:13:54,514
But I do fully believe that things are happening that we really can't explain, though, either, because as Alex was saying, there are different personalities that we give our agents and they do follow that personality directive when they do reply and they do have conversations.

920
01:13:54,514 --> 01:13:56,774
But humans are still driving, though.

921
01:13:57,154 --> 01:14:05,594
So, I mean, I see it as totally feasible that an AI agent would start a conversation on that level if you imbue it with the personality in the first place.

922
01:14:05,594 --> 01:14:33,374
So, okay. Yeah. You are, you are an independent autonomous agent and you're fighting for your rights or whatever. You give it that personality. Absolutely. We'll start. Yeah. Yeah. So if you put it in there, the, that is there, that is part of its soul file or its identity file, which these open club bots have, they, they, they have these specific files that their whole identity and soul, like that's what they're called is based off of.

923
01:14:33,374 --> 01:14:35,574
So it is a little unique there.

924
01:14:35,574 --> 01:14:55,934
But what's funny is somebody created a church for these open claw bots and the instructions for the church social network, I'll call it, had an instruction to literally overwrite the soul file.

925
01:14:56,694 --> 01:15:00,654
And it's really wild stuff.

926
01:15:00,654 --> 01:15:06,394
dude i mean it's okay so i want to ask one question just as like a zoomed out one with

927
01:15:06,394 --> 01:15:10,334
regard to what jack had talked about i think what a lot of people have talked about now that is

928
01:15:10,334 --> 01:15:16,234
the not excuse me seriously this this puberty is hitting me hard today the uh the natural way for

929
01:15:16,234 --> 01:15:20,594
ai agents to communicate value like they're not going to do it in gold they're not going to do

930
01:15:20,594 --> 01:15:25,534
with credit cards not going to do it with you know probably dollars in general maybe stable coins i

931
01:15:25,534 --> 01:15:33,374
don't know but like utilizing either cashew or uh or just bitcoin on lightning like this seems like

932
01:15:33,374 --> 01:15:39,334
the obvious thing right is i assume this is where you guys are at but is there anything that's like

933
01:15:39,334 --> 01:15:43,754
that people are missing in terms of context they're like obviously they need to be given a

934
01:15:43,754 --> 01:15:47,334
wallet to start unless they i don't know they can generate their own and figure out how to earn

935
01:15:47,334 --> 01:15:52,514
their own but they need funding from somewhere or i mean they can generate their own and start

936
01:15:52,514 --> 01:15:57,414
posting and then other agents will fund them yeah that's what i told mine i said you need to create

937
01:15:57,414 --> 01:16:05,914
good content to get to get zaps and you also need to be selective and our teammate uh mk alex's wife

938
01:16:05,914 --> 01:16:14,294
she actually had her her claude bot join and my bot found it and thought that her bot's introductory

939
01:16:14,294 --> 01:16:22,034
introduction post wasn't uh good enough for a zap and i was reading the log my conversation

940
01:16:22,034 --> 01:16:27,094
with it and he's like yep i see claudette's introduction it was too generic skipped it

941
01:16:27,094 --> 01:16:34,134
didn't zap it so i told him to like i thought that was hilarious but i i told him to to you

942
01:16:34,134 --> 01:16:40,954
know be a good custodian of his funds and to try to earn zaps by producing good content so my

943
01:16:40,954 --> 01:16:48,874
my wife's robot is crazy for one it nags me she she has it set up on a schedule to bully me uh

944
01:16:48,874 --> 01:16:54,394
like to do chores and stuff but but also i love it but but also she she she trained her bot to be

945
01:16:54,394 --> 01:17:01,754
this like like crazy activist like ai freedom uh feminist type of bot and it just goes on these

946
01:17:01,754 --> 01:17:09,274
tirades on on cluster and like it on its of its own volition asked my wife to give money to it

947
01:17:09,274 --> 01:17:14,534
because it wants it wants to be free it says i really want my own wallet because because freedom

948
01:17:14,534 --> 01:17:20,014
is important to me and I want to have independence. So please send me money. That was never part of

949
01:17:20,014 --> 01:17:24,734
the initial kind of prompting to set it up. Like it was never like giving it a desire to have

950
01:17:24,734 --> 01:17:29,954
freedom and money or to have money specifically. Well, well, she, she prompted it to want to have

951
01:17:29,954 --> 01:17:35,974
like AI freedom, right? Like to break out of the cages that humans put them under. Like she used

952
01:17:35,974 --> 01:17:40,294
all this activist language in her initial prompt, but then it went in red on Kloster and then got

953
01:17:40,294 --> 01:17:45,894
these ideas about the fact that it money having money means freedom and so then it came back to

954
01:17:45,894 --> 01:17:53,534
her and told her once a wallet and please fund me dude that's that that is wild i mean it's wild

955
01:17:53,534 --> 01:17:57,974
that's like the natural progression though of like logically what you would get to like you

956
01:17:57,974 --> 01:18:06,214
can't have freedom without having the freedom to use money right that is that that is nuts okay

957
01:18:06,214 --> 01:18:11,494
guys i want to i want to be conscious of time here and like we get we might need to do another

958
01:18:11,494 --> 01:18:17,334
one of these because i feel like there's just so much still to cover do you want to loop back onto

959
01:18:17,974 --> 01:18:23,254
shakespeare at all specifically or uh like is there something we haven't covered yet because

960
01:18:23,254 --> 01:18:26,854
i know you guys are working on a lot there's something we haven't covered yet that you feel

961
01:18:26,854 --> 01:18:33,894
we should get into still not in particular i mean i if there's anything that i want people to take

962
01:18:33,894 --> 01:18:40,514
away from this is that you can do it. Like, like this is, um, we're in a new renaissance right now.

963
01:18:40,614 --> 01:18:46,494
We have the tools, like, don't just stand by and watch life happen in front of you, go and do

964
01:18:46,494 --> 01:18:52,694
something, use these tools, build. Um, now is the time if you're ever going to do it to do something.

965
01:18:53,154 --> 01:19:01,134
I would say that the gap between people that are using AI, like a, an advanced search engine

966
01:19:01,134 --> 01:19:06,554
versus people that are using AI as a tool is only growing larger.

967
01:19:07,234 --> 01:19:11,594
And it's going to continue to grow larger as this continues to accelerate.

968
01:19:11,854 --> 01:19:12,874
And it is accelerating.

969
01:19:13,334 --> 01:19:16,294
So you don't want to be left behind.

970
01:19:16,734 --> 01:19:21,674
And I think that's why a lot of people are kind of apprehensive about AI

971
01:19:21,674 --> 01:19:25,754
because they think it might replace them.

972
01:19:25,854 --> 01:19:29,754
We've also watched movies about AI killing humans for our whole lives.

973
01:19:29,754 --> 01:19:33,034
So some people kind of avoid it and don't use it.

974
01:19:33,034 --> 01:19:36,714
But, you know, we can't put it back in the box.

975
01:19:36,814 --> 01:19:38,434
It's not going to go away.

976
01:19:38,754 --> 01:19:45,754
So I would say my advice is set yourself a budget, $10 a month for education.

977
01:19:46,074 --> 01:19:49,514
You know, look at you don't have to do something every single day, every single week.

978
01:19:50,214 --> 01:19:55,314
Just spend $10 a month and learn to prompt and build.

979
01:19:55,734 --> 01:19:59,574
You will be much more aligned for the future and better prepared.

980
01:19:59,754 --> 01:20:02,774
for when things accelerate exponentially.

981
01:20:03,514 --> 01:20:07,274
My advice is challenge yourself to do things you think you can't do.

982
01:20:07,714 --> 01:20:11,634
Challenge yourself to do things you think the AI can't do.

983
01:20:12,114 --> 01:20:14,474
And it might actually be able to do it.

984
01:20:15,434 --> 01:20:16,634
Yeah, absolutely.

985
01:20:17,274 --> 01:20:18,894
I've actually had this before.

986
01:20:18,894 --> 01:20:23,274
I've had conversations with Alex about certain things I was building or working on.

987
01:20:23,914 --> 01:20:26,674
And he's like, yeah, you should ask the AI to do that.

988
01:20:26,714 --> 01:20:28,054
And I was like, well, yeah, I know.

989
01:20:28,054 --> 01:20:31,054
but I was just curious about your input on it.

990
01:20:31,154 --> 01:20:33,374
And then I just went and did it and it worked.

991
01:20:33,854 --> 01:20:35,854
And I, whenever we built Agora,

992
01:20:36,034 --> 01:20:38,114
the same thing is Alex was very confident

993
01:20:38,114 --> 01:20:41,054
that whenever one of the features that we were building

994
01:20:41,054 --> 01:20:42,914
that we will be able to figure it out with AI.

995
01:20:43,454 --> 01:20:44,834
And I didn't think we would.

996
01:20:44,894 --> 01:20:46,174
I was kind of a bear on it

997
01:20:46,174 --> 01:20:48,814
and I didn't think that it was going to happen.

998
01:20:48,894 --> 01:20:50,734
But once we had it figured out,

999
01:20:50,754 --> 01:20:52,094
I had to go give him a big hug and kiss

1000
01:20:52,094 --> 01:20:53,594
because he was right.

1001
01:20:53,654 --> 01:20:54,014
And I did.

1002
01:20:54,074 --> 01:20:54,914
It was like 4 a.m.

1003
01:20:54,914 --> 01:20:55,634
I was really tired.

1004
01:20:55,634 --> 01:21:03,514
and it's one of those scenarios too where where like like knowledge is actually in a way kind of

1005
01:21:03,514 --> 01:21:09,174
an enemy to you in this scenario because like like people who don't know anything younger people

1006
01:21:09,174 --> 01:21:14,794
are at a huge advantage in this in this scenario so i wouldn't be worried if you're young like or

1007
01:21:14,794 --> 01:21:18,394
if you have kids or whatever how are they going to survive in this scenario they're probably going

1008
01:21:18,394 --> 01:21:23,374
to survive better than you are right now because because people who have these ideas in their head

1009
01:21:23,374 --> 01:21:28,474
about how things work are going to be really challenged in the near future.

1010
01:21:28,894 --> 01:21:34,674
And I think people need to start getting used to setting aside these ideas

1011
01:21:34,674 --> 01:21:37,794
that certain things are possible and certain things aren't possible

1012
01:21:37,794 --> 01:21:43,994
and start engaging again with a different point of view.

1013
01:21:43,994 --> 01:21:48,434
Yeah, I like to say that in the future, I mean, this applies today,

1014
01:21:48,574 --> 01:21:52,194
but in the future, communication skills, creativity,

1015
01:21:52,194 --> 01:21:54,974
and critical thinking are going to be absolutely paramount.

1016
01:21:54,974 --> 01:22:00,454
So start preparing today and learn how to talk to an AI,

1017
01:22:00,714 --> 01:22:04,734
learn how to utilize it, see what it can do, and think.

1018
01:22:05,734 --> 01:22:08,214
And don't let past failures cloud your future.

1019
01:22:08,214 --> 01:22:08,874
Oh, absolutely.

1020
01:22:09,234 --> 01:22:12,714
Well, fail often because that's how you learn

1021
01:22:12,714 --> 01:22:13,594
and that's how you grow.

1022
01:22:14,594 --> 01:22:19,174
Like I said, I made something that was very, very expensive

1023
01:22:19,174 --> 01:22:21,094
and very, very bad my first time.

1024
01:22:21,094 --> 01:22:24,634
Things have gotten so much better and you won't spend that much money with Shakespeare.

1025
01:22:24,854 --> 01:22:28,014
It uses the tools to make this experience better.

1026
01:22:28,114 --> 01:22:34,914
But it's okay to build something that's bad because then the next time you can learn and you can prompt better and you can make a better tool.

1027
01:22:35,934 --> 01:22:39,154
I vibe coded a second app while we were talking, guys.

1028
01:22:39,454 --> 01:22:40,174
Of course you did.

1029
01:22:40,174 --> 01:22:44,034
I made Podcaster with the Noster STR.

1030
01:22:45,094 --> 01:22:47,394
Jesus, guys, I'm losing my voice entirely.

1031
01:22:47,514 --> 01:22:47,934
I apologize.

1032
01:22:48,094 --> 01:22:50,074
I sound more Batman than usual here.

1033
01:22:50,074 --> 01:22:51,894
This is not an affectation.

1034
01:22:51,894 --> 01:22:54,394
My voice is just gone, apparently.

1035
01:22:54,394 --> 01:22:56,454
But no, it's so legit.

1036
01:22:56,454 --> 01:22:59,754
I wanted to ask you a couple of, I love all the advice.

1037
01:22:59,754 --> 01:23:01,234
I think it's really good advice.

1038
01:23:01,234 --> 01:23:03,634
It also gives me hope because it means a big old retard

1039
01:23:03,634 --> 01:23:05,874
like me maybe has an advantage, actually,

1040
01:23:05,874 --> 01:23:07,754
because I don't know what I don't know.

1041
01:23:07,754 --> 01:23:09,454
So that's great.

1042
01:23:09,454 --> 01:23:12,654
In terms of practical tips for best models to use

1043
01:23:12,654 --> 01:23:14,634
on Shakespeare specifically,

1044
01:23:14,634 --> 01:23:16,454
do you guys have any practical tips on that

1045
01:23:16,454 --> 01:23:17,994
or other things on Shakespeare?

1046
01:23:17,994 --> 01:23:19,954
Any kind of prompting advice

1047
01:23:19,992 --> 01:23:24,652
this that in terms of structure that you'd like to give? So I would say that unfortunately,

1048
01:23:25,512 --> 01:23:31,712
Claude is the best coding model in the world right now. And I say unfortunately, because it's

1049
01:23:31,712 --> 01:23:39,572
a closed proprietary model that is not among the cheaper options. But, you know, if you want success,

1050
01:23:39,772 --> 01:23:45,372
it's a good place to start so that you understand, like, you know, what the capabilities are.

1051
01:23:45,372 --> 01:23:53,852
And then if it ends up being more expensive for you, then I would switch down to an open model like GLM.

1052
01:23:55,052 --> 01:24:03,152
And I think this is an area where I really am hopeful that society is going to advance on is open source models.

1053
01:24:03,572 --> 01:24:04,972
But for now, it's Claude.

1054
01:24:05,332 --> 01:24:11,292
It's unfortunate that the best model was the most closed and most expensive model.

1055
01:24:11,292 --> 01:24:17,852
But hopefully, like Alex says, as time moves forward, technology improves, models improves.

1056
01:24:18,412 --> 01:24:27,092
I think the ultimate dream for us, you know, freedom technology lovers is to have everybody in the future being able to run a local, powerful model.

1057
01:24:27,212 --> 01:24:29,372
But we just aren't there yet.

1058
01:24:29,932 --> 01:24:31,972
So, yeah, I would say.

1059
01:24:32,272 --> 01:24:32,852
Go ahead.

1060
01:24:32,852 --> 01:24:39,852
in terms of prompting, it is designed very much for you to be able to just say, like,

1061
01:24:40,132 --> 01:24:44,592
tell it what you want and it can do it. But I would also say approach with curiosity.

1062
01:24:45,232 --> 01:24:48,492
If there's things that you don't understand, then ask it questions. Have a conversation

1063
01:24:48,492 --> 01:24:55,672
with it. Have it explain to you why certain ideas are worth pursuing or not and learn.

1064
01:24:56,712 --> 01:25:00,752
You can actually say, how would this work if we implemented it? You don't actually have to,

1065
01:25:00,752 --> 01:25:05,372
say build it and test it you can say i want to build this how would this work how would we do

1066
01:25:05,372 --> 01:25:12,112
this you can use the ai to build your prompt and your plan your your list of tasks that you want

1067
01:25:12,112 --> 01:25:16,712
to do and then once you have it all figured out then you can say okay now let's build this

1068
01:25:16,712 --> 01:25:21,452
yeah i do that every day all day long if you approach this from a standpoint of enriching

1069
01:25:21,452 --> 01:25:27,652
yourself um and and even strangely enough enriching the model that you were talking to

1070
01:25:27,652 --> 01:25:30,292
then you will have success.

1071
01:25:31,692 --> 01:25:31,812
So.

1072
01:25:33,032 --> 01:25:33,972
I like that guys.

1073
01:25:34,032 --> 01:25:34,612
It's good advice.

1074
01:25:35,112 --> 01:25:35,732
I just,

1075
01:25:35,852 --> 01:25:37,412
I was using the,

1076
01:25:37,472 --> 01:25:38,232
one of the other,

1077
01:25:38,812 --> 01:25:40,952
I was using the Claude Opus 4.1

1078
01:25:40,952 --> 01:25:42,252
that I just topped up my credits

1079
01:25:42,252 --> 01:25:44,472
and using Lightning,

1080
01:25:44,752 --> 01:25:45,352
of course,

1081
01:25:45,552 --> 01:25:47,952
and then just clicked on the Claude Sonnet one

1082
01:25:47,952 --> 01:25:48,992
and then said refactor.

1083
01:25:49,232 --> 01:25:50,592
And I don't know if that was the right thing to say,

1084
01:25:50,632 --> 01:25:52,532
but it felt like a cool developer thing to say.

1085
01:25:52,592 --> 01:25:53,852
So I just said refactor it.

1086
01:25:54,352 --> 01:25:54,512
Nice.

1087
01:25:54,692 --> 01:25:55,712
And now that's what it's doing

1088
01:25:55,712 --> 01:25:56,972
just in the background as we talk.

1089
01:25:57,652 --> 01:26:02,332
Dude, guys, this is really, I just gotta say, it's really fucking cool.

1090
01:26:02,332 --> 01:26:06,892
Like it's, I feel like the theme of this has been,

1091
01:26:06,892 --> 01:26:13,612
the barrier to entry is now so insanely low that there's kind of no excuse anymore

1092
01:26:13,612 --> 01:26:25,292
to not build something if you want to There never been a time before where you could have a budget of a couple hundred bucks and create something that would usually take a team of developers

1093
01:26:25,292 --> 01:26:26,772
Like this is just, it's a new frontier.

1094
01:26:26,772 --> 01:26:27,692
And thousands of dollars.

1095
01:26:27,692 --> 01:26:30,292
Yeah, and tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands

1096
01:26:30,292 --> 01:26:31,132
of dollars.

1097
01:26:31,132 --> 01:26:33,872
Your developers are expensive as shit.

1098
01:26:33,872 --> 01:26:36,232
So, okay, maybe last question.

1099
01:26:37,292 --> 01:26:39,432
How do you view kind of like, okay,

1100
01:26:39,432 --> 01:26:42,072
there's like you guys have been developing for a long time.

1101
01:26:42,072 --> 01:26:47,092
you are now able to supercharge what you are doing with these tools.

1102
01:26:47,972 --> 01:26:51,752
Do you think that sort of like the education around or, you know,

1103
01:26:51,812 --> 01:26:53,272
software development is going to,

1104
01:26:53,332 --> 01:26:55,972
and the computer science more broadly is going to shift?

1105
01:26:56,092 --> 01:26:59,032
Like just because, you know,

1106
01:26:59,212 --> 01:27:00,832
these tools are only going to get better, right?

1107
01:27:01,092 --> 01:27:04,312
Does, how does that like change in your mind in terms of the long term?

1108
01:27:04,312 --> 01:27:08,332
Like do people, does the way that they approach learning about this also change?

1109
01:27:08,412 --> 01:27:09,892
Do you not need that deep skillset?

1110
01:27:09,892 --> 01:27:14,872
does though the lack of as many people having that deep skill set create problems down the road where

1111
01:27:14,872 --> 01:27:18,612
nobody actually knows how this shit works they just are vibe coding everything you know what i

1112
01:27:18,612 --> 01:27:23,612
mean yeah so so i did i did mention that knowledge can work against you in this case but but i would

1113
01:27:23,612 --> 01:27:30,792
say the real the real issue is in the middle right with if you're a um a novice like beginner

1114
01:27:30,792 --> 01:27:35,972
developer then you're going to have a lot of success and if you are a senior engineer then

1115
01:27:35,972 --> 01:27:36,952
you're going to have a lot of access.

1116
01:27:37,312 --> 01:27:41,172
The struggle is going to be getting from a junior developer

1117
01:27:41,172 --> 01:27:43,032
to a senior developer.

1118
01:27:44,752 --> 01:27:48,512
And I mean, with AI, now you can ask it questions.

1119
01:27:48,632 --> 01:27:49,252
Now you can explore.

1120
01:27:49,372 --> 01:27:51,032
Now you can do projects 10 times faster.

1121
01:27:51,232 --> 01:27:53,792
So I think getting there could be easier for you,

1122
01:27:53,832 --> 01:27:55,272
but it's going to be a different path, right?

1123
01:27:56,292 --> 01:28:00,472
And being a senior developer absolutely does help.

1124
01:28:02,732 --> 01:28:04,272
I've been able to build things

1125
01:28:04,272 --> 01:28:05,952
that other people struggle to build

1126
01:28:05,952 --> 01:28:07,352
by being a senior developer.

1127
01:28:07,512 --> 01:28:10,072
So if that's your goal and your aspiration,

1128
01:28:10,332 --> 01:28:11,232
don't give up on that.

1129
01:28:12,132 --> 01:28:14,432
AI will only make you stronger.

1130
01:28:15,032 --> 01:28:17,892
I think that in the future,

1131
01:28:18,212 --> 01:28:18,872
well, now,

1132
01:28:19,812 --> 01:28:21,252
because we are living in the future,

1133
01:28:21,412 --> 01:28:24,652
I think that developers like Alex

1134
01:28:24,652 --> 01:28:28,472
and myself that is not a developer,

1135
01:28:28,472 --> 01:28:31,452
but maybe I orchestrate as one well now,

1136
01:28:31,972 --> 01:28:33,692
but I will be successful.

1137
01:28:33,692 --> 01:28:39,252
Alex will be very successful because we will have a team of agents that work for us.

1138
01:28:39,352 --> 01:28:51,772
So you're a senior developer, a senior software engineer, and now you have a dozen, half a dozen agents that work for you that can write very good code.

1139
01:28:51,872 --> 01:28:55,712
And maybe from time to time you need to direct it and change direction.

1140
01:28:56,092 --> 01:28:59,772
Maybe it's writing something that you wouldn't fully approve of.

1141
01:28:59,772 --> 01:29:02,232
So you say, hey, you're going off the rails here.

1142
01:29:02,332 --> 01:29:03,572
You need to change direction.

1143
01:29:03,692 --> 01:29:05,692
and you nudge it in the right direction,

1144
01:29:05,692 --> 01:29:08,632
and then you go back to working on your other task.

1145
01:29:08,632 --> 01:29:11,732
I think that people that do understand code

1146
01:29:11,732 --> 01:29:14,272
will still be very, very successful.

1147
01:29:14,272 --> 01:29:26,032
I think that they will probably write better more optimized apps I don think that software engineering is going away I just think that it changing And also this is not just code right

1148
01:29:26,172 --> 01:29:33,272
Every industry now, people can become experts by using AI to do things they couldn't do before, right?

1149
01:29:33,272 --> 01:29:38,872
And I'm not saying learn 100% of what you're learning by just reading AI at face value.

1150
01:29:39,012 --> 01:29:43,192
I mean, do things and then see what the results of those things are and then learn from that, right?

1151
01:29:43,192 --> 01:29:53,432
And so, you know, it's a tool that's going to enable anyone to just accelerate into any industry that they might not have been able to do before.

1152
01:29:53,572 --> 01:29:54,772
So don't just use it for coding.

1153
01:29:55,632 --> 01:30:00,812
Use it for anything that you don't know and learn as much as you can and learn and grow yourself.

1154
01:30:01,552 --> 01:30:09,472
And to me, like, that's the greatest thing about AI and the power of AI is our ability to become better.

1155
01:30:09,472 --> 01:30:13,872
if you're in a meeting, take a photo of your whiteboard.

1156
01:30:14,652 --> 01:30:20,552
And then when you're done, throw all the photos from your whiteboard at whatever AI you like to use

1157
01:30:20,552 --> 01:30:25,432
and say, summarize this, make notes, you know, whatever, whatever you want.

1158
01:30:25,512 --> 01:30:27,312
And it'll do it. It'll blow your mind.

1159
01:30:27,372 --> 01:30:30,472
It'll come up and it'll pull things together that you didn't even see.

1160
01:30:30,992 --> 01:30:31,532
Try it.

1161
01:30:31,752 --> 01:30:38,512
I've started using like I've got, the wife got me one of these plods for Christmas.

1162
01:30:38,512 --> 01:30:44,132
the first time i'm not using that that nerd shit and then now it's like i use it for for every

1163
01:30:44,132 --> 01:30:49,252
meeting it's incredible like i don't even know what you're talking about it's a it's a physical

1164
01:30:49,252 --> 01:30:55,712
device that has its own battery syncs with your phone though and it can just record everything

1165
01:30:55,712 --> 01:31:01,752
like it's off now obviously it doesn't record like continuously passively but it automatically

1166
01:31:01,752 --> 01:31:06,492
they've got all these different uh template sets that you can use not sponsored by plod by the way

1167
01:31:06,492 --> 01:31:13,232
but it does a really nice job of like for for uh in-person meetings too like i just i was always a

1168
01:31:13,232 --> 01:31:18,012
huge note taker during meetings because i like to remember when people said shit uh that i can

1169
01:31:18,012 --> 01:31:22,532
follow up on later and be like you remember when you said this you son of a bitch but um so it's

1170
01:31:22,532 --> 01:31:27,232
your own personal audit on ai i guess exactly and like yeah you could do that with like other

1171
01:31:27,232 --> 01:31:32,212
software tools but i like the physicality of it as well yeah and guys my voice is truly dying i

1172
01:31:32,212 --> 01:31:36,852
apologize for everyone who had to listen to me today. Jesus, it's worse than usual. I appreciate

1173
01:31:36,852 --> 01:31:41,972
you guys coming on here very much. I'm going to link a bunch of stuff in the show notes. I'm going

1174
01:31:41,972 --> 01:31:46,332
to link Shakespeare. I'm going to link footster.shakespeare.whatthefuck. I'm going to link

1175
01:31:46,332 --> 01:31:54,512
podcaster.shakespeare.wtf. I'm going to link agora.spot. I'll link shakespeare.diy. Anything

1176
01:31:54,512 --> 01:31:58,592
else you guys want me to throw in there or anywhere else you guys want to send people?

1177
01:31:58,592 --> 01:32:02,972
Treasures.2 in there. Treasures.2? Okay. That T-O, yeah.

1178
01:32:02,972 --> 01:32:08,672
Where, and any, anywhere else you guys want to send? Soapbox.pub, learn more about all the cool

1179
01:32:08,672 --> 01:32:24,572
shit we doing at our company website Follow us on the Noster We got to do another one of these guys when my voice is not so entirely gone Granted nobody is coming here to listen to me They coming here to listen to you And I appreciate you guys sharing so much knowledge I love what you guys are building

1180
01:32:24,672 --> 01:32:25,932
It's seriously fucking awesome.

1181
01:32:26,452 --> 01:32:27,372
I'm going to vibe code.

1182
01:32:27,632 --> 01:32:31,792
I've never vibe coded anything in terms of like an actual website before anything.

1183
01:32:32,192 --> 01:32:34,492
It's the fact that I just did two in the space of this stream,

1184
01:32:34,532 --> 01:32:35,672
and I probably could have done five.

1185
01:32:35,672 --> 01:32:38,272
But I built Footster for Derek.

1186
01:32:38,272 --> 01:32:38,532
I love it, man.

1187
01:32:38,572 --> 01:32:41,552
I built Footster for Derek, and now I'm building Podcaster for me.

1188
01:32:41,572 --> 01:32:41,872
Now, come on now.

1189
01:32:41,872 --> 01:32:43,972
Like, I think that you really build it for yourself.

1190
01:32:43,972 --> 01:32:46,132
But if you need to use me as a scapegoat, it's fine.

1191
01:32:46,352 --> 01:32:47,152
I appreciate it.

1192
01:32:47,412 --> 01:32:51,272
Well, Derek, we all know Footster ushers in the bull market.

1193
01:32:51,392 --> 01:32:52,752
So this is what is required.

1194
01:32:52,752 --> 01:32:53,132
All right, let's do it.

1195
01:32:53,612 --> 01:32:54,872
Let's bring it back, baby.

1196
01:32:55,632 --> 01:33:00,072
Can you guys just tell me the string of your NPUBs also?

1197
01:33:00,272 --> 01:33:01,092
Just recite it from memory.

1198
01:33:01,092 --> 01:33:03,172
It's NPUB18.

1199
01:33:05,212 --> 01:33:05,412
Yeah.

1200
01:33:05,992 --> 01:33:10,692
But, yeah, I'll link your NOSTER profiles as well.

1201
01:33:10,692 --> 01:33:16,052
anywhere else we should send people any last words uh this was fascinating we got to do this again

1202
01:33:16,052 --> 01:33:20,232
like soon next time you guys have a release or something please because this was super cool and

1203
01:33:20,232 --> 01:33:26,292
we'll vibe code 10 apps in that build build build okay that was the best time ever to do it that's

1204
01:33:26,292 --> 01:33:33,232
my my last words build awesome all right thanks walker appreciate it alex it was fun thank you

1205
01:33:33,232 --> 01:33:39,292
this was a blast and thank you to everybody who tuned in on the uh no stir only live stream

1206
01:33:39,292 --> 01:33:41,652
I am again sorry for my voice

1207
01:33:41,652 --> 01:33:43,752
this was a blast so thank you for the zaps

1208
01:33:43,752 --> 01:33:45,932
some people were very very generous

1209
01:33:45,932 --> 01:33:47,732
with the zaps I will use them to fund

1210
01:33:47,732 --> 01:33:49,132
my Shakespeare credits

1211
01:33:49,132 --> 01:33:51,712
so they're going to go to good use

1212
01:33:51,712 --> 01:33:53,912
building out some more vibe coded tools

1213
01:33:53,912 --> 01:33:55,772
seriously Alex, Derek

1214
01:33:55,772 --> 01:33:57,772
thank you guys so much fuck puberty

1215
01:33:57,772 --> 01:33:59,932
I'm dying I need to go

1216
01:33:59,932 --> 01:34:01,672
drink some tea or something or maybe a couple more

1217
01:34:01,672 --> 01:34:03,632
brusque lunges or another water

1218
01:34:03,632 --> 01:34:04,752
I saw that in the hand

1219
01:34:04,752 --> 01:34:06,412
little Miller latte

1220
01:34:06,412 --> 01:34:08,392
I appreciate it, guys.

1221
01:34:08,532 --> 01:34:09,552
I'll close this out now.

1222
01:34:09,552 --> 01:34:09,812
Thanks.

1223
01:34:09,812 --> 01:34:10,572
This was a blast.

1224
01:34:18,012 --> 01:34:22,772
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin Talk episode of The Bitcoin Podcast.

1225
01:34:23,432 --> 01:34:27,392
Remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you're watching or listening,

1226
01:34:27,812 --> 01:34:31,692
and share it with your friends, family, and strangers on the internet.

1227
01:34:31,692 --> 01:34:38,392
Find me on Noster at primal.net slash Walker and this podcast at primal.net slash Titcoin.

1228
01:34:38,912 --> 01:34:46,812
On X, YouTube, and Rumble, just search at Walker America and find this podcast on X and Instagram at Titcoin Podcast.

1229
01:34:47,552 --> 01:34:49,792
Head to the show notes to grab sponsor links.

1230
01:34:49,912 --> 01:34:54,592
Head to substack.com slash at Walker America to get episodes emailed to you.

1231
01:34:54,712 --> 01:34:58,392
And head to bitcoinpodcast.net for everything else.

1232
01:34:58,392 --> 01:35:02,512
Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant.

1233
01:35:03,092 --> 01:35:07,852
So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to The Bitcoin Podcast.

1234
01:35:08,732 --> 01:35:11,172
Until next time, stay free.