1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,320
So they have the one that are like, well, didn't it crash?

2
00:00:02,380 --> 00:00:03,160
Isn't it going to zero?

3
00:00:03,280 --> 00:00:05,120
And it's like, yeah, there's like significant drawdowns.

4
00:00:05,140 --> 00:00:09,200
Like it's fucking painful and it makes you really need to stop and reassess what's going on.

5
00:00:09,500 --> 00:00:12,460
And for me, it's really valuable because I have to like look at Bitcoin and be like, wow.

6
00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,100
My mom was a single mom who like had a really hard time getting by.

7
00:00:16,220 --> 00:00:17,160
We like grew up poor.

8
00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:22,640
But like she still managed to like buy a house and like keep it.

9
00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,460
Today, like there's no fucking way that's even remotely on the table.

10
00:00:26,460 --> 00:00:32,460
You believe these people when they come to you and tell you that they're trying to implement age verification to protect the kids.

11
00:00:32,580 --> 00:00:35,300
Meanwhile, they're actually taking advantage of them in the background.

12
00:00:35,740 --> 00:00:38,080
Like, this representative democracy thing to me is bullshit.

13
00:00:38,260 --> 00:00:43,000
Like, I don't understand why I'm supposed to collectivize myself with a bunch of fucking idiots that can't think for themselves.

14
00:00:43,220 --> 00:00:49,880
My dream with the Orange Party is, like, eventually sweep the elections and full sweep of the feds of put them all on trial for treason.

15
00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,040
Whoever's found guilty, hang them publicly.

16
00:00:52,260 --> 00:00:53,960
We need to fight back at some point in time.

17
00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:58,320
There's a technological solution we have to this that nobody's thought of yet.

18
00:01:23,960 --> 00:01:29,120
here uh i feel like that with setting up live streams on no store it's like is it gonna work

19
00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,700
this time like did i fuck something up and it works most of the time okay i just posted it let's

20
00:01:33,700 --> 00:01:40,540
make sure it blasted out it'll be nice when like there's you have like a competent like ai podcasting

21
00:01:40,540 --> 00:01:44,440
assistant that like you you can count on and you know like isn't gonna completely shit the bed

22
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:49,280
dude it it really will be and i mean honestly i'm of the opinion also

23
00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:56,700
that like as far as i mean everybody's obviously talking about all the jobs that will be although

24
00:01:56,700 --> 00:02:01,060
like white collar jobs or technical kind of developer jobs are just like you know computer

25
00:02:01,060 --> 00:02:07,160
jobs quote it will be replaced by ai and i honestly think i say this like ironically and

26
00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:11,860
somewhat baiting like in a baiting way but also unironically i think that podcasting like in the

27
00:02:11,860 --> 00:02:15,140
future everyone will be a podcaster it's like it's no longer learn to code it's like learn to

28
00:02:15,140 --> 00:02:21,000
podcast. People will crave that genuine human connection with somebody when they know that the

29
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,920
whole world is just mostly slop. It's like, what do people want when everything turns to slop? It's

30
00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:29,760
like, you want something real. You want something that's actually somewhat feels like a human

31
00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,320
connection. I feel like that's what like a huge part of the rise of streaming culture was,

32
00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:39,320
especially during COVID was just a response to, I can't get human connection in the physical world

33
00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:44,180
right now. So I need to find it in the digital world. And like, I don't know. I mean, granted,

34
00:02:44,180 --> 00:02:48,860
like there's probably a point of saturation with podcasts but then maybe not maybe in the future

35
00:02:48,860 --> 00:02:54,380
everybody's just their own you know niche niche uh niche creator like i think there's a place for

36
00:02:54,380 --> 00:03:01,040
that there's an irony of that like in uh the most extreme tensions like of these dynamics that like

37
00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,920
there's a very high galleon effect of that like the thesis and the anti-thesis come to represent

38
00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:10,460
this new thing so like despite the fact that like we're a world apart right now that like the like

39
00:03:10,460 --> 00:03:14,680
you go into streaming for like the most human kind of connection and it's actually interesting

40
00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:20,100
because like that that dovetails a lot of i mean really a lot of the affects that are sort of going

41
00:03:20,100 --> 00:03:24,300
on technologically is that like we've we've entered into like such an extreme place of

42
00:03:24,300 --> 00:03:28,560
development with the technology that like it's only through its return and the representation

43
00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:34,720
of like the anti-thesis of it that like we're creating this new thing right now and i think

44
00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,560
this is part of the whole exploration is that like people are trying to find what it means to

45
00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:43,960
be human in the digital age so that like we're no longer we're no longer just pieces of data but we

46
00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,840
actually get to be human and like what is what does that mean in the internet because like that

47
00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:53,540
that was never it was never built with that intentionality you know like it was always just

48
00:03:53,540 --> 00:03:57,320
supposed to be subsets of data so now that we're trying to return to like what does it mean to be

49
00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:02,600
human in the digital age i think streaming is just one part of it and it's sort of like personal

50
00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:08,540
branding if you will but that also represents its own anti-humanism in a very particular way

51
00:04:08,540 --> 00:04:14,320
I just love that you managed to slip in Heigelian in the first like two minutes of this.

52
00:04:14,780 --> 00:04:17,680
That is skill right there.

53
00:04:18,580 --> 00:04:22,220
Knowing how Heigel has made the world work is an important thing for everybody.

54
00:04:23,700 --> 00:04:24,900
It is.

55
00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:26,640
And Eric, I'm stoked to have you back, man.

56
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:33,760
I realized it's been a little while, I think, since I had you and Hodl on.

57
00:04:34,220 --> 00:04:35,660
We have no Hodl this time.

58
00:04:35,840 --> 00:04:37,620
Maybe he'll pop in partway through.

59
00:04:37,620 --> 00:04:42,380
who can say he's a man of mystery probably out at the shooting range but like i was just thinking

60
00:04:42,380 --> 00:04:47,180
about as i was just setting up the studio here for this today i was like wow the last time we

61
00:04:47,180 --> 00:04:54,640
talked was in the uh the world before we had explicit confirmation of something we all already

62
00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:59,360
well many of us already knew which is that basically like our country and not just our

63
00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,780
country like our world is run by this like pseudo cult of satanic pedophiles and we all pay taxes

64
00:05:03,780 --> 00:05:05,080
to these satanic pedophiles.

65
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,540
But now we have like actual pretty hard and fast confirmation of that,

66
00:05:09,620 --> 00:05:10,980
even though most of it's redacted.

67
00:05:11,220 --> 00:05:11,900
I don't know.

68
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,700
Do you think that that actually ends up mattering?

69
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,080
Do you think that that breaks enough people to a certain point

70
00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,360
where they realize like, oh, all of this is just bullshit?

71
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,220
Or do you think where everyone is so sucked into just like getting through

72
00:05:24,220 --> 00:05:27,260
the fucking day and just putting food on the table

73
00:05:27,260 --> 00:05:29,200
and trying to deal with the pressures of life

74
00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,760
that actually just doesn't end up moving the needle that much?

75
00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:37,320
definitely the latter i mean i mean like the the fact that all this information is coming out is

76
00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:43,780
part of a limited hangout and like the the fact that we are ran by uh you know like like most

77
00:05:43,780 --> 00:05:48,540
normies even if you put it in front of them of like hey like the epstein stuff it turns out it's

78
00:05:48,540 --> 00:05:55,500
true blah blah blah they'd be like oh god that's so horrible like back to my tv um i mean it's

79
00:05:55,500 --> 00:06:01,060
pretty sad because like i think this is one of the places i want to that like i push in a particular

80
00:06:01,060 --> 00:06:05,300
their way because like i think we need more radicalism is that like it it's there isn't

81
00:06:05,940 --> 00:06:11,420
like look what covet was it it there there there isn't some event that's going to come about where

82
00:06:11,420 --> 00:06:16,240
people suddenly radicalize themselves and they're like that like that's the line enough no don't

83
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,680
like like the police show up their house and give them a gun they're like you need to kill your

84
00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:27,500
neighbor they'll be like oh okay well i mean if if the police said so uh and i you know like it to

85
00:06:27,500 --> 00:06:31,720
me it's one of the dark and horrific truths of that like we we live in a day and age where most

86
00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:38,580
people in my opinion are sort of uh you know and like any of us could fall into this but like

87
00:06:38,580 --> 00:06:43,320
they're still plugged in the matrix in a way and very similar to what what morpheus said is that

88
00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:48,080
like you know like the these people are dangerous to us like they're not they're not going to

89
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:52,880
spontaneously awake and become our allies like like they're very dangerous because they're plugged

90
00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:57,480
into a matrix where they'll tell you stuff that like like if you say jeffrey epstein didn't kill

91
00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,700
himself they'll be like whoa that sounds like crazy conspiracy theory stuff that's what the

92
00:07:01,700 --> 00:07:08,100
report said what do you mean yeah and like it's i struggle a lot with it because like on on one

93
00:07:08,100 --> 00:07:14,900
side like i have very deep empathy like i uh like i understand why we want to believe the media and

94
00:07:14,900 --> 00:07:19,460
why we want to believe that the government loves us and wants to do good and like you know why why

95
00:07:19,460 --> 00:07:23,800
we should just let everybody come to america and we should all be able to hold hands and hug and

96
00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:29,740
that like it should be like a happy great experience that's not reality and like and i'm

97
00:07:29,740 --> 00:07:35,760
really sorry like i really wish it was different i very sincerely do but like we have to look at

98
00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:43,140
the facts of the matter and also it's like it's pretty clear that like uh like the sexual pedophilia

99
00:07:43,140 --> 00:07:46,820
cult thing like that was kind of like a side project for jeffrey epstein like that was that

100
00:07:46,820 --> 00:07:51,760
that was probably his hobby like his main thing was probably being a major financial

101
00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:58,300
trading hub in terms of like washing money but also like he was involved in arms dealings and

102
00:07:58,300 --> 00:08:04,140
other things and that like so like the like that was just kind of like a side quest and so when you

103
00:08:04,140 --> 00:08:09,220
really start looking at the the makeup of what's going on it's like not only is the thing that we

104
00:08:09,220 --> 00:08:14,340
call democratic and representative like completely corrupt but that like it it's probably in service

105
00:08:14,340 --> 00:08:19,460
to like a much larger and more wicked and impossible to sort of fight structure.

106
00:08:20,580 --> 00:08:22,100
And it sucks and it blows.

107
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:23,680
And I wish we could vote our way out of it.

108
00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:24,340
We can't.

109
00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:26,360
Bitcoin is a great start.

110
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,160
It's tangentially allied with like a bunch of fucked up shit that like, I don't know,

111
00:08:31,300 --> 00:08:33,840
we got pretty off track in the last five years.

112
00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,420
But yeah, I don't know.

113
00:08:38,540 --> 00:08:41,800
I used to feel a lot more anger about it.

114
00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,540
And I think I just I felt that for too long and affected my own life too much.

115
00:08:46,700 --> 00:08:48,680
So in a lot of ways, I'm more accepting about it.

116
00:08:48,680 --> 00:08:56,740
And also, like, I think at some point we have to just kind of worry about ourselves more than kind of the greater country in a whole and hope that they get it.

117
00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,700
But I don't know. It sucks. I wish I wish people would wake up.

118
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,920
Can I ask you to elaborate on the part about the last five years and just getting off track?

119
00:09:06,980 --> 00:09:08,100
What do you mean by that specifically?

120
00:09:08,100 --> 00:09:15,980
uh i think specifically like the tangent like at first i thought what david bailey did with trump

121
00:09:15,980 --> 00:09:20,820
was okay like there was a particular number of wins that happened with it same thing as like

122
00:09:20,820 --> 00:09:24,920
getting integrated with the nation state but like now i'm realizing like it was it was like a pretty

123
00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:31,520
dangerous flaw um the obfuscation between bitcoin and crypto same thing and i think like we've done

124
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:36,320
a pretty good job about talking shit about these people uh but like i think we should have developed

125
00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:41,560
more of an eminity with them uh and been like very clear like fuck these people they are fucking

126
00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:46,660
scammers they've hooked their wagon up to ours i think there was a number of us that did like

127
00:09:46,660 --> 00:09:52,900
you know like i'd give us a good b with it but like um yeah it's just it's very difficult for

128
00:09:52,900 --> 00:09:56,380
me now when i tell people like you know i'm a bitcoiner this is what i do and they're like oh

129
00:09:56,380 --> 00:10:00,640
like crypto and i want to be like i'll rip your fucking eyes out and show them up your ass to

130
00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:05,680
make you see how wrong you are if you ever say that again they're like whoa like fucking chill

131
00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:11,180
um dude it is it is crazy though just on sorry to interrupt but on that point like it is kind of

132
00:10:11,180 --> 00:10:16,600
crazy for all of the drum beating that bitcoiners have done about look this like this isn't crypto

133
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:21,860
it's like it it hasn't moved the needle that much in terms of public perception or public confusion

134
00:10:21,860 --> 00:10:27,680
like it's maybe moved it a little bit but man it and maybe that just goes back to the fact that

135
00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:33,140
most people because they are still plugged into the matrix they cannot be bothered to go even one

136
00:10:33,140 --> 00:10:37,300
layer deeper to say, huh, well, let me check my assumptions on this. I'm calling all of this

137
00:10:37,300 --> 00:10:42,540
crypto like, oh, FTX, Sandbankman-Fried, that's like, that's Bitcoin and Bitcoin is crypto. And

138
00:10:42,540 --> 00:10:46,060
like, because that's like the jump most people make. I don't know how many, it can't even count

139
00:10:46,060 --> 00:10:49,680
how many times, like if I brought up Bitcoin, somebody would say like, oh, like the FT,

140
00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:54,900
the Sandbankman-Fried thing or whatever. And you'd be like, oh, fuck, like you got to be kidding me.

141
00:10:55,300 --> 00:11:00,580
But it's like, again, like maybe just most people won't ever be woken up from that or can't be

142
00:11:00,580 --> 00:11:08,600
bothered i don't know like i i wish i could say it's different but like plato's cave is literally

143
00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:14,920
about this and that's like a story from you know fucking more than 2 000 years ago and like it it

144
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:19,480
i don't know like for me it's really difficult because on some level

145
00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:26,280
i i feel very torn because like on one level i want to empathize and understand that like a lot

146
00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:31,120
of people don't have the time effort energy capacity whatever to be able to like look deeper

147
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:35,600
into this stuff and they're plugged in and that's not their fault but on the other hand at some

148
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:40,740
point like i start feeling really upset and contemptful and i have to be like you you need

149
00:11:40,740 --> 00:11:45,580
to empower yourself at some point in time to like figure out how and why the world works but

150
00:11:45,580 --> 00:11:50,220
i found a lot of people don't do that and like for me it's a real struggle because i'll be like

151
00:11:50,220 --> 00:11:53,560
like here's this bitcoin thing it could help you and they're like

152
00:11:53,560 --> 00:12:01,320
i meh and i'm like no like sincerely you should like look into it deeper it's like really important

153
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:11,140
like uh oh and it's i don't know it pains me deep deeply because it's like okay well

154
00:12:11,140 --> 00:12:18,200
i led you to water you don't want to drink it like if you want to continue living your fiat

155
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:23,200
lifestyle doing what you're doing okay uh and then also they have the one that

156
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,060
they're like well didn't it didn't crash isn't it going to zero and it's like

157
00:12:26,060 --> 00:12:29,380
yeah there's like significant drawdowns like it's fucking painful and it makes

158
00:12:29,380 --> 00:12:33,360
you really need to stop and reassess what's going on and for me it's really

159
00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,780
valuable because I have to like look at Bitcoin and be like wow yeah drew down

160
00:12:36,780 --> 00:12:42,160
50 percent like did I misvalue it does it not do the stuff I want it to do and I

161
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,860
have to like go through the whole existential thing and be like no I can

162
00:12:44,860 --> 00:12:50,300
still pay whoever I want. Like I can still send it wherever I need to pay join still works. Like

163
00:12:50,300 --> 00:12:55,120
you can still create privacy if needed. Like it's doing everything that I think it's going to do.

164
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:59,880
And then there's like a redoubling of like, oh yeah, okay. This is actually how the cycles work

165
00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:04,660
in the process. I could try to call the top and sell, you know, like some people do really well

166
00:13:04,660 --> 00:13:10,160
with trading. I don't, I suck at it. Uh, like I'll more likely lose a lot more money. Yeah. And so

167
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,280
it's a lot easier of a strategy just to hold.

168
00:13:12,940 --> 00:13:15,800
And some people are really good at trading and great for them.

169
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:20,180
Like I like market dynamics and it's great that there's probably a lot of

170
00:13:20,180 --> 00:13:22,640
people that were looking at Bitcoin at 125 and they're like,

171
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,980
that's too much that now it's at what 68 or something that they'll be like,

172
00:13:27,060 --> 00:13:29,660
yeah, like maybe now is a good time for me to get in.

173
00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:34,560
So to me, it's all the dynamics of how Bitcoin works.

174
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,800
It's all of the fundamentals that make it operable are still there.

175
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,940
it's just whether or not the rest of the world will catch up to it

176
00:13:41,940 --> 00:13:49,840
circling back on the uh satanic pedophiles it is just like it seems that there's all of this

177
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:54,820
this tsunami of fud being thrown at bitcoin right now and all of it is just the most

178
00:13:54,820 --> 00:14:01,600
mid-curve slop you can imagine like the whole epstein and you know hijacked bitcoin and all

179
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:07,620
the and it's like all these b cashers and uh and xr we gotta throw adam back under the bus now and

180
00:14:07,620 --> 00:14:14,400
we got to talk about all these people oh my god it's it's just it's so tiresome like yeah

181
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:23,040
yeah it turns out that like uh epstein was deeply involved in a lot of academic projects that's

182
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,480
like a lot of people don't seem to understand that like this is an explicit part of laundering

183
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,860
it's not like everything he touched he automatically made evil it's that like he touched a lot of

184
00:14:31,860 --> 00:14:36,480
legitimate stuff intentionally in order to be able to launder the rest of the shit and like that's

185
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,900
this is literally how laundering works.

186
00:14:38,940 --> 00:14:42,040
That's why you have like a legitimate business to pair with your illegitimate

187
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:42,480
business.

188
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:43,940
It's like mix them up together,

189
00:14:43,940 --> 00:14:46,720
but trying to like address,

190
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:47,700
you know,

191
00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:48,100
and like,

192
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:48,960
again,

193
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,820
this is sort of comes back to the same thing with Bitcoin.

194
00:14:50,820 --> 00:14:51,600
And why like,

195
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,460
I'm just kind of realizing like,

196
00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:56,920
it's just kind of stupidity on a whole is like more of the problem.

197
00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:01,840
And like a lot of people don't want to use logic as like a rigorous format

198
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:06,000
that like is the way that they understand the truth as opposed to their own

199
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:06,380
biases.

200
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,700
And like I'm as susceptible to it as anybody else.

201
00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:13,560
And I have to like stop and really ask myself to work through stuff from first principles.

202
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,220
But like it's I don't know.

203
00:15:17,620 --> 00:15:23,600
It's yeah, for me, the most disturbing thing coming about right now is realizing how many people.

204
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:33,700
Not not only do they not necessarily understand what's going on, but that like they'll have very significant opinions that aren't well supported.

205
00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:36,080
And it's just fucking sucks.

206
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,860
It's a bummer to try to deal with them and their opinionated nature.

207
00:15:39,740 --> 00:15:53,380
Meanwhile, people who like know 10 times more than them and like should have 100 times more assurance usually are a thousand times more modest, which means that like they're not going to have the same loudness that other individuals will.

208
00:15:54,020 --> 00:15:57,240
Wish you could access cash without selling your Bitcoin?

209
00:15:57,820 --> 00:15:59,120
Ledin makes that possible.

210
00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:09,440
The global leader in Bitcoin-backed lending, Ledin has issued over $10 billion in loans since 2018 and has a perfect record of protecting client assets.

211
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:11,480
Why is a Ledin loan different?

212
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,980
Well, with custodied loans, collateral is not lent out to generate interest.

213
00:16:16,420 --> 00:16:22,940
No credit checks, no monthly payments, apply in minutes and repay whenever you want, with zero penalties.

214
00:16:22,940 --> 00:16:29,840
And proof of reserves reports verified by a top accounting firm are published every six months.

215
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:36,500
Ledin gives Bitcoin holders a secure, transparent way to unlock liquidity without selling.

216
00:16:37,180 --> 00:16:41,080
Learn more at ledin.io slash walker.

217
00:16:41,660 --> 00:16:47,160
That's L-E-D-N dot I-O forward slash walker.

218
00:16:47,300 --> 00:16:52,900
If you're hodling Bitcoin personally or for a business, here's the uncomfortable truth.

219
00:16:52,940 --> 00:16:59,000
you probably don't have insurance. Most policies exclude Bitcoin, and the ones that don't,

220
00:16:59,420 --> 00:17:04,960
they only pay you back in fiat. What's the point of that if you need to claim a loss when number

221
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:12,900
go up? That's not insurance, that's liquidation. Now there's another option, BDIC. They're

222
00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:19,300
building an insurance marketplace on the Bitcoin standard. One Bitcoin lost equals one Bitcoin paid.

223
00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:26,980
They've integrated with Liana Business for enterprise self-custody with personal wallet coverage options coming later this year.

224
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:38,360
If you care about protecting your Bitcoin as Bitcoin, sign up for the waitlist at bdic.io slash walker.

225
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:44,380
That's bdic.io slash walker.

226
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,360
Insurance on the Bitcoin standard.

227
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:54,760
Blockstream Jade Plus delivers robust security with fully open-source hardware and software.

228
00:17:55,300 --> 00:18:01,600
Its unique genuine check feature ensures your device is authentic, giving you ultimate peace of mind.

229
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:08,900
With versatile connectivity options including Bluetooth, USB-C, built-in camera, and SD card,

230
00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:13,900
Jade Plus offers unparalleled flexibility in managing your Bitcoin.

231
00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:19,660
Whether you prefer wireless convenience or air-gapped security, Jade has you covered.

232
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:25,820
Its innovative design features a durable metal case, a bright 1.9-inch color screen,

233
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:32,080
and intuitive navigation buttons that make managing your Bitcoin straightforward and enjoyable.

234
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:37,340
Jade Plus also supports secure, air-gapped transactions via QR code signing

235
00:18:37,340 --> 00:18:43,240
using the Jade Link storage device, keeping your Bitcoin safe without compromising convenience.

236
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:53,160
Visit store.blockstream.com and use my coupon code WALKER for an exclusive 10% discount on your Blockstream Jade Plus.

237
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,980
Protect your Bitcoin. Sleep better. Stack harder.

238
00:18:57,420 --> 00:19:03,780
What's that old paradox of the more you know about something, the more you understand how much you still do not know?

239
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:04,580
Yeah.

240
00:19:04,700 --> 00:19:11,620
And that requires a certain level of humility that honestly just like most, I mean, this is like the opposite end of that spectrum is the Dunning-Kruger effect, right?

241
00:19:11,620 --> 00:19:16,360
where it's like you know just a little bit about something and so you think you are the end-all be-all

242
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:20,420
expert on this thing and you've been you've done a lot of rote memorization and you're really good

243
00:19:20,420 --> 00:19:24,640
at rattling off certain things and certain talking points so you think like oh I've got this figured

244
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:29,340
out and none of your arguments are actually organic or like the of that you came up with

245
00:19:29,340 --> 00:19:33,620
yourself they're all regurgitated slop that somebody else came up with that was regurgitated

246
00:19:33,620 --> 00:19:38,460
from somebody else and that's just I mean maybe this this is just always the case like this is

247
00:19:38,460 --> 00:19:44,560
just to something with human nature and the fact that we are kind of distributed along this bell curve.

248
00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:49,560
But it's like, man, I think some of the most dangerous people in the world are just mid-curve.

249
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,380
This goes through all levels, you know what I mean?

250
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:57,920
Yeah, and the consequences is most people in the world are mid-curve,

251
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,100
and most people in the world are going to group together under that same affect,

252
00:20:02,360 --> 00:20:04,680
which kind of explains everything that's going on.

253
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:16,380
And I don't know, like I, for quite a while, I felt stuck at a crossroads of like, do I try to actually push and make a bigger and more significant difference in the world?

254
00:20:16,380 --> 00:20:21,380
Or like, do I just kind of fade out into the forest and live my own private life?

255
00:20:22,380 --> 00:20:27,760
And it's difficult because like I, you know, we've talked about the orange party for a while.

256
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,940
And like, I'd love to see something like that come to fruition.

257
00:20:29,940 --> 00:20:33,240
But like, do I want to try to do something like that?

258
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:38,300
It's like a lot of time and energy and effort and and more than anything like it's

259
00:20:40,180 --> 00:20:56,118
It difficult to deal with normies and like a lot of people believe that only two political parties can exist at all and like trying to push up against that is really difficult but at the same time like we entering into a really interesting and new era with uh how significant

260
00:20:56,118 --> 00:21:02,618
and powerful ai is and like it's becoming more and more obvious as each day passes that like

261
00:21:02,618 --> 00:21:07,398
this is essentially alien technology at this point in time and like it's starting to

262
00:21:07,398 --> 00:21:13,118
it's starting to get to a place where like it it very clearly can kind of challenge our intellect

263
00:21:13,118 --> 00:21:15,278
and very novel in different ways.

264
00:21:15,458 --> 00:21:17,198
Like, I'm not sure if you followed much,

265
00:21:17,278 --> 00:21:20,598
but, like, I think the head of anthropic safety just left

266
00:21:20,598 --> 00:21:23,258
and was pretty much like, yeah, I'm going to go into hiding in the UK.

267
00:21:25,018 --> 00:21:27,938
And so, like, it's really interesting

268
00:21:27,938 --> 00:21:30,558
because I feel like this is a real place

269
00:21:30,558 --> 00:21:33,338
that we can radicalize and change things

270
00:21:33,338 --> 00:21:35,978
in a very special and important direction

271
00:21:35,978 --> 00:21:38,018
for humanity on a whole if we choose to.

272
00:21:39,178 --> 00:21:41,598
But looking at what the masses are out there doing

273
00:21:41,598 --> 00:21:43,978
in that, you know, like a lot of this,

274
00:21:44,038 --> 00:21:45,758
a lot of this computational power

275
00:21:45,758 --> 00:21:47,238
is being used to make cat videos,

276
00:21:47,398 --> 00:21:48,998
which like no hate on cat videos,

277
00:21:48,998 --> 00:21:51,798
but like the fact that that's kind of the preoccupation

278
00:21:51,798 --> 00:21:54,438
is disturbing in some ways.

279
00:21:54,578 --> 00:21:56,538
So like, I don't know.

280
00:21:56,658 --> 00:21:58,718
It's, I think there is an opportunity

281
00:21:58,718 --> 00:22:00,298
to make a huge impact right now.

282
00:22:00,298 --> 00:22:01,558
And I also think that's one reason

283
00:22:01,558 --> 00:22:02,858
why people like streaming

284
00:22:02,858 --> 00:22:04,138
and talking to people online

285
00:22:04,138 --> 00:22:05,558
is realizing that like there's,

286
00:22:05,678 --> 00:22:07,918
there's a possibility for something

287
00:22:07,918 --> 00:22:09,038
very radical and different.

288
00:22:09,238 --> 00:22:09,878
But the question is,

289
00:22:09,898 --> 00:22:11,438
is do we want to challenge ourselves

290
00:22:11,438 --> 00:22:12,858
to try to bring that forth.

291
00:22:14,998 --> 00:22:18,738
Do you think on the AI front,

292
00:22:18,878 --> 00:22:22,238
like one of my worries just from some of the stuff

293
00:22:22,238 --> 00:22:25,778
that I'm exposed to is like, boy, as you said,

294
00:22:25,858 --> 00:22:28,098
most people are just using this to generate cat videos.

295
00:22:28,298 --> 00:22:31,478
On the other side of this, you've got governments

296
00:22:31,478 --> 00:22:34,018
and very large corporations who are realizing,

297
00:22:34,018 --> 00:22:40,998
wow, this is a panopticon enabling totalitarian's wet dream

298
00:22:40,998 --> 00:22:48,158
from a surveillance state perspective, just being able to analyze and like large, large

299
00:22:48,158 --> 00:22:52,138
data sets in a way that we have not been able to with an efficiency that we have not been

300
00:22:52,138 --> 00:22:52,798
able to before.

301
00:22:53,018 --> 00:22:56,138
But it's also like it's, it's, it's, there's always a dualism to it, right?

302
00:22:56,178 --> 00:22:59,498
Anything it's like with Bitcoin yet can be used by bad people and it can be used by good

303
00:22:59,498 --> 00:23:00,498
people can be used by anyone.

304
00:23:00,498 --> 00:23:01,038
It's a tool.

305
00:23:01,078 --> 00:23:01,698
It's like a gun.

306
00:23:01,738 --> 00:23:03,018
It's like a car, right?

307
00:23:03,018 --> 00:23:07,558
Except in this case, it's like a, a massive data processing engine.

308
00:23:07,558 --> 00:23:13,778
where are you at with this in terms of sort of like near-term potential versus long-term potential

309
00:23:13,778 --> 00:23:20,658
with AI specifically in the sense that okay you know we've already established that most people

310
00:23:20,658 --> 00:23:26,098
just are plugged in right so they're not going to use something as necessarily a tool for them

311
00:23:26,098 --> 00:23:28,818
they're going to generate cat videos nothing wrong with that but that's like that's what they're

312
00:23:28,818 --> 00:23:34,298
going to use it for meanwhile people who are paying attention and who may or may not have

313
00:23:34,298 --> 00:23:41,258
nefarious ends will use these things to try and usher in a totalitarian global panopticon.

314
00:23:42,058 --> 00:23:48,238
Like, do the tools that AI provides us offer us also an asymmetric defense against that?

315
00:23:48,438 --> 00:23:50,918
Or is the asymmetry in a different direction? You know what I mean?

316
00:23:51,478 --> 00:23:55,958
Yeah, no, the asymmetry is definitely biased towards the individual. And like, that's one

317
00:23:55,958 --> 00:24:01,038
of the reasons that you can see that, like, open source models are very quickly closing the gap

318
00:24:01,038 --> 00:24:05,098
between frontier capacities and open source models.

319
00:24:05,978 --> 00:24:09,818
Same thing with novel new ways of creating tokenization schemes

320
00:24:09,818 --> 00:24:12,538
in order to make them much more efficient and smaller.

321
00:24:13,478 --> 00:24:18,138
So I believe that this is one of the most radical tools

322
00:24:18,138 --> 00:24:20,278
that has ever been given to individuals

323
00:24:20,278 --> 00:24:24,278
because now a lone individual with an open source model

324
00:24:24,278 --> 00:24:27,978
can go and do research that just a year ago

325
00:24:27,978 --> 00:24:31,558
would have, you know, taken large corporations

326
00:24:31,558 --> 00:24:33,878
that would have been their cutting edge technology.

327
00:24:34,858 --> 00:24:34,958
Right.

328
00:24:35,058 --> 00:24:37,458
So like I think, and like short-term and long-term

329
00:24:37,458 --> 00:24:38,438
are related to each other

330
00:24:38,438 --> 00:24:42,538
because like these are highly efficient at, you know,

331
00:24:42,798 --> 00:24:43,658
data analysis.

332
00:24:43,658 --> 00:24:45,938
It can make the Panopticon all the better.

333
00:24:46,258 --> 00:24:48,418
But with that being said, the same thing,

334
00:24:48,418 --> 00:24:51,158
like tools and techniques to obfuscate that information

335
00:24:51,158 --> 00:24:53,398
and data allows for you to throw out way more flack.

336
00:24:53,738 --> 00:24:56,358
And like in the cat and mouse game,

337
00:24:56,358 --> 00:25:10,078
I think this was one of the things that was asserted in Snow Crash was like the idea that like you can essentially pump out all this extra information that like without anything being verified, you can't really know anything.

338
00:25:10,738 --> 00:25:20,738
And so I think like the amount of like slop that can get pumped out to kind of throw flack to make the information analysis more difficult is really powerful.

339
00:25:20,738 --> 00:25:23,038
in addition to like,

340
00:25:24,158 --> 00:25:25,738
and this is sort of our thesis at Vora,

341
00:25:25,898 --> 00:25:27,638
is that like people are going to realize like your oil

342
00:25:27,638 --> 00:25:30,318
and like you generate data

343
00:25:30,318 --> 00:25:31,918
and like that is your,

344
00:25:32,338 --> 00:25:33,578
like that's your crude oil

345
00:25:33,578 --> 00:25:36,258
and like you being able to synthesize that on your own

346
00:25:36,258 --> 00:25:38,578
to make plastics, refined gasoline,

347
00:25:38,698 --> 00:25:39,318
like whatever,

348
00:25:39,498 --> 00:25:40,778
like if you own that data,

349
00:25:40,818 --> 00:25:41,678
you can do that

350
00:25:41,678 --> 00:25:43,018
and you can do it way more efficiently

351
00:25:43,018 --> 00:25:44,938
and substantially for yourself,

352
00:25:44,938 --> 00:25:46,198
but like you need to own it.

353
00:25:47,038 --> 00:25:49,078
And so like I think inevitably

354
00:25:49,078 --> 00:25:51,058
it sort of concludes into that direction.

355
00:25:51,698 --> 00:25:54,298
But then again, like most people are idiots

356
00:25:54,298 --> 00:25:58,078
and they would rather use something that is very simple,

357
00:25:58,318 --> 00:26:00,098
even if it's selling their soul,

358
00:26:00,278 --> 00:26:01,338
they would rather do that.

359
00:26:01,478 --> 00:26:03,618
So like, it's really interesting.

360
00:26:03,958 --> 00:26:05,918
Like I'm going to be intrigued to see where it goes.

361
00:26:06,398 --> 00:26:07,598
And ultimately like,

362
00:26:08,238 --> 00:26:10,178
because I think these models have been open source

363
00:26:10,178 --> 00:26:11,938
because I do think we have Bitcoin,

364
00:26:12,158 --> 00:26:15,718
to me like this is all ultimately sort of a brinkmanship

365
00:26:15,718 --> 00:26:18,238
towards individual liberty itself

366
00:26:18,238 --> 00:26:23,678
because I think at some point people start to realize like there are two options you can live

367
00:26:23,678 --> 00:26:28,878
in the panopticon or not there's not really an in-between and I think when people realize that

368
00:26:28,878 --> 00:26:34,598
like living in the panopticon might be comfortable to a point in time but like you can essentially get

369
00:26:34,598 --> 00:26:39,838
red marked at any point in time and process for elimination I think a lot of people are going to

370
00:26:39,838 --> 00:26:44,678
realize like well if that's a possibility I probably shouldn't make that one that's available

371
00:26:44,678 --> 00:26:45,618
in the first place.

372
00:26:46,418 --> 00:26:47,638
So long-term, I think, like,

373
00:26:48,198 --> 00:26:50,318
people eventually conclude that they need to

374
00:26:50,318 --> 00:26:52,738
not only own their own data, but not...

375
00:26:52,738 --> 00:26:54,018
Like, I think there's a potential for, like,

376
00:26:54,038 --> 00:26:55,518
a totally new form of the Internet

377
00:26:55,518 --> 00:26:57,978
where instead of us having these large corporations

378
00:26:57,978 --> 00:26:59,378
with data siloed in them,

379
00:27:00,118 --> 00:27:01,758
that people own their own data

380
00:27:01,758 --> 00:27:04,198
and that, like, a new structure of the Internet

381
00:27:04,198 --> 00:27:05,398
gets built on top of that.

382
00:27:07,278 --> 00:27:09,818
Do you want to talk about Vora a little bit, maybe?

383
00:27:09,818 --> 00:27:11,418
And I'm not sure how much

384
00:27:11,418 --> 00:27:14,538
has already been disclosed publicly

385
00:27:14,538 --> 00:27:18,858
in terms of these things, but I mean, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about it.

386
00:27:19,558 --> 00:27:22,878
Where are you guys at right now in terms of what you can talk about publicly?

387
00:27:23,838 --> 00:27:27,338
Yeah, so we've been working on our alpha for quite a while.

388
00:27:27,498 --> 00:27:29,778
We've had to revamp it a few different times.

389
00:27:30,178 --> 00:27:33,298
We have a working, we have an open source model that's working.

390
00:27:33,738 --> 00:27:35,298
There's two main components to it.

391
00:27:35,338 --> 00:27:39,238
We have something that's called the Guardian, which is, it's really a local AI that lives

392
00:27:39,238 --> 00:27:45,258
privately on your computer and it's designed to uh like be housed and dwell there that's like

393
00:27:45,258 --> 00:27:50,138
where that information lives and it never touches the open internet and that's kind of the big thing

394
00:27:50,138 --> 00:27:55,598
is like there's a moat in between it and the open internet you then have another section of the ai

395
00:27:55,598 --> 00:28:00,698
that's called uh the explorer and that's designed to like go out on the internet find information

396
00:28:00,698 --> 00:28:06,278
search for it and jesse has very thoughtfully designed a system that allows for this information

397
00:28:06,278 --> 00:28:08,078
to flow in between.

398
00:28:08,498 --> 00:28:12,678
So from the Guardian to the Explorer

399
00:28:12,678 --> 00:28:14,898
and to the Explorer from the Guardian,

400
00:28:15,138 --> 00:28:16,178
the information can be swapped,

401
00:28:16,338 --> 00:28:17,198
but it's never direct.

402
00:28:17,458 --> 00:28:18,578
And so it's always sort of filtered

403
00:28:18,578 --> 00:28:19,678
with an intermediary

404
00:28:19,678 --> 00:28:21,498
so that you can't get prompt injected.

405
00:28:22,158 --> 00:28:23,978
Your private information can't be compromised

406
00:28:23,978 --> 00:28:26,558
because there's something in AI

407
00:28:26,558 --> 00:28:28,938
called the lethal trifecta of AI.

408
00:28:30,338 --> 00:28:32,378
I think Simon Wilson has it on his blog.

409
00:28:32,458 --> 00:28:33,018
It's really good.

410
00:28:33,418 --> 00:28:34,318
Explains it in detail.

411
00:28:34,318 --> 00:28:36,898
but more or less in the lethal trifecta

412
00:28:36,898 --> 00:28:38,758
if you have any of these

413
00:28:38,758 --> 00:28:40,838
three parameters which I think is like

414
00:28:40,838 --> 00:28:42,858
I'd butcher it if I

415
00:28:42,858 --> 00:28:44,758
try to say it online so go look it up if you want to

416
00:28:44,758 --> 00:28:46,578
but it's that any of these three parameters

417
00:28:46,578 --> 00:28:48,938
when you intermix them they introduce

418
00:28:48,938 --> 00:28:50,518
inherent dangers of being able to like

419
00:28:50,518 --> 00:28:52,558
exfiltrate data or compromise stuff

420
00:28:52,558 --> 00:28:54,778
so you have to be very thoughtful about

421
00:28:54,778 --> 00:28:56,498
how you organize an AI

422
00:28:56,498 --> 00:28:58,638
and I'm sure you've been following Clodbot

423
00:28:58,638 --> 00:29:00,678
stuff and Clodbot is a great example

424
00:29:00,678 --> 00:29:02,738
of when you don't obey any of these sort of

425
00:29:02,738 --> 00:29:05,218
security parameters and how well you can get totally fucked.

426
00:29:06,218 --> 00:29:10,958
So in a lot of ways, like we're trying to build really like a security enabled kind

427
00:29:10,958 --> 00:29:15,658
of clodbot in particular ways so that like you can give it all of your personal information

428
00:29:15,658 --> 00:29:18,978
and you know that clodbot isn't just going to take that and go dump it out on the open

429
00:29:18,978 --> 00:29:20,778
internet or vice versa.

430
00:29:20,778 --> 00:29:25,618
It's not just going to kind of randomly take whatever it looks up on the internet and prompt

431
00:29:25,618 --> 00:29:27,818
inject you to then be able to exfiltrate your data.

432
00:29:27,818 --> 00:29:33,978
uh so we have a piece of hardware that it runs pretty well on and the idea is ultimately we want

433
00:29:33,978 --> 00:29:39,658
to give you the hardware you can run run your own local inference all the information lives there

434
00:29:39,658 --> 00:29:45,938
privately you can go explore the internet to gather any new information pull it in and slowly

435
00:29:45,938 --> 00:29:50,998
over time like this is particularly the guardian is going to get to know you a lot better it's

436
00:29:50,998 --> 00:29:54,458
going to know your habits it's going to know your information it's going to be able to read your

437
00:29:54,458 --> 00:29:58,858
emails, it's going to see your calendar. And from this, it's going to essentially become kind of

438
00:29:58,858 --> 00:30:03,878
your primary personal assistant. And from that, it'll spawn up a bunch of smaller agents that

439
00:30:03,878 --> 00:30:08,098
like, maybe you'll have one that runs business, maybe you'll have one that does health stuff for

440
00:30:08,098 --> 00:30:12,838
you, maybe you'll have one that does finances. And from all of this, it becomes more and more

441
00:30:12,838 --> 00:30:16,458
personalized. And through you owning your own data, you can give it more and more private

442
00:30:16,458 --> 00:30:22,818
information, you can do therapy with it, whatever. And this really is kind of why Bitcoiners need to

443
00:30:22,818 --> 00:30:27,278
own this and have because we're the only people with an ethos that really understands why privacy

444
00:30:27,278 --> 00:30:32,478
and security is so paramount to it because this this information is going to be just as valuable

445
00:30:32,478 --> 00:30:36,978
as your bitcoin private key and so it needs to be thought of and protected in the same way

446
00:30:36,978 --> 00:30:42,458
and you can only do that if not only you're running the information locally but on another level there

447
00:30:42,458 --> 00:30:48,518
is robust backup features and also there's a network that can actually like the idea is

448
00:30:48,518 --> 00:30:53,678
eventually different uh like essentially vora boxes will be able to talk to each other and be

449
00:30:53,678 --> 00:30:59,218
able to use homoformic encryption schemes so like i can back up a chunk of your data the rest of the

450
00:30:59,218 --> 00:31:04,578
network can back up chunks of your data and like recoverability becomes this process of where

451
00:31:04,578 --> 00:31:10,498
you don't know what data of mine you're hosting it's kind of part of a larger network and uh

452
00:31:10,498 --> 00:31:15,538
recoverability so that like if somebody steals my box that's always a possibility and like it's not

453
00:31:15,538 --> 00:31:21,738
on Vora. It's part of sort of the larger CT network that operates on top of that. And so like if I

454
00:31:21,738 --> 00:31:27,818
invoke the recovery protocol, I zap you, you know, however much it is to download all of that

455
00:31:27,818 --> 00:31:33,178
information. I get the information downloaded, I can decrypt it, and I now have all of my information

456
00:31:33,178 --> 00:31:40,918
back. So it's, it's still a ways off. It's going slower than we'd want to, but we really think

457
00:31:40,918 --> 00:31:47,338
it's important to get it right and make sure that at no point in this process will we not only fuck

458
00:31:47,338 --> 00:31:51,698
something up and make it so that like your private data can be exfiltrated but that uh

459
00:31:51,698 --> 00:31:58,198
once we do launch that it kind of can't be stopped like once you own the box the data

460
00:31:58,198 --> 00:32:03,698
and information like we have no way to stop you from kind of asking it whatever you want so

461
00:32:03,698 --> 00:32:10,798
do you think so i've got a couple of questions there uh on the one side you you mentioned the

462
00:32:10,798 --> 00:32:17,138
whole Claude bot thing and that has been obviously very uh very in vogue lately do you think there's

463
00:32:17,138 --> 00:32:23,438
quite a few sort of let's say security risks that folks aren't considering with that with everybody

464
00:32:23,438 --> 00:32:27,518
100 i mean watching a few youtube videos and spinning these things up and then hooking it

465
00:32:27,518 --> 00:32:31,898
into everything like it just seems like boy what could go wrong right yeah and like there's plenty

466
00:32:31,898 --> 00:32:37,158
of examples already out there of you know people mismanaging it and it fucking them over in

467
00:32:37,158 --> 00:32:42,598
different ways you know and uh it's one of those things i think a lot of people are unaware of uh

468
00:32:42,598 --> 00:32:49,118
the security risks up until they present themselves so uh go out there watch youtube videos that you

469
00:32:49,118 --> 00:32:54,158
want about it you'll see the problems that it has and for us it's been highly validating for our

470
00:32:54,158 --> 00:32:59,678
thesis like people people want these private ai boxes that they can kind of do whatever they want

471
00:32:59,678 --> 00:33:05,058
with the problem is is like if you don't have robust security parameters in place it can become

472
00:33:05,058 --> 00:33:09,338
very problematic which is why a lot of people are just buying a brand new mac mini or whatever and

473
00:33:09,338 --> 00:33:14,218
loading it up on there which really like you don't need that much power for them you can just

474
00:33:14,218 --> 00:33:21,778
wipe an old macbook get a vps setup and like you're good to go so uh just in terms of what

475
00:33:21,778 --> 00:33:26,758
you mentioned about the way that uh within vora specifically you would be able to have this

476
00:33:26,758 --> 00:33:31,198
network with backup infrastructure and all of that do you envision this then just become i mean this

477
00:33:31,198 --> 00:33:33,898
is you're creating a network of nodes essentially, right?

478
00:33:34,438 --> 00:33:34,578
Yeah.

479
00:33:34,978 --> 00:33:37,458
Yeah, and like the, it's really interesting

480
00:33:37,458 --> 00:33:40,078
because like it demands the Lightning Network,

481
00:33:40,218 --> 00:33:42,298
it demands Noster, and it demands Bitcoin

482
00:33:42,298 --> 00:33:44,538
all to be a part of this kind of stack.

483
00:33:45,938 --> 00:33:47,718
You know, and like I think it's really,

484
00:33:47,878 --> 00:33:50,358
like Noster is kind of the most important one in my opinion

485
00:33:50,358 --> 00:33:52,378
because like now there becomes an ability

486
00:33:52,378 --> 00:33:54,718
to be able to like have a web of trust

487
00:33:54,718 --> 00:33:56,918
with various people in it that have their own force

488
00:33:56,918 --> 00:33:58,778
sort of plugged into them in various ways.

489
00:33:58,778 --> 00:34:05,498
um you know and like we're still just the very beginning of all this and so uh we're going to

490
00:34:05,498 --> 00:34:11,038
call this the ct network uh but ultimately like there's nothing terribly special about it outside

491
00:34:11,038 --> 00:34:16,838
of that like it it's really just a homoformic encryption scheme um like i can locate your data

492
00:34:16,838 --> 00:34:23,058
vis-a-vis no stir and i can pay you for my data with its encrypted id based off of like the lightning

493
00:34:23,058 --> 00:34:28,578
network's infrastructure so like it becomes pretty simple to do this stuff and i think we need to

494
00:34:28,578 --> 00:34:34,958
really take a step back and realize like uh like lightning is relatively immature it's maybe only

495
00:34:34,958 --> 00:34:40,158
i think the white paper was like a decade old maybe and then noster is even what like three

496
00:34:40,158 --> 00:34:44,478
years old or something like that maybe even less and like these are very important core

497
00:34:44,478 --> 00:34:49,118
infrastructures towards this kind of wider decentralized ideal that's been thought of for

498
00:34:49,118 --> 00:34:55,098
i mean a very long time and so the fact that they're all sort of slowly coming into fruition

499
00:34:55,098 --> 00:34:57,158
in their own way is really important and powerful.

500
00:34:57,818 --> 00:35:01,058
And with that, there's probably more stuff on the horizon

501
00:35:01,058 --> 00:35:04,178
that AI is going to help us with in really powerful ways.

502
00:35:04,438 --> 00:35:07,878
I won't be surprised if through an intermixing

503
00:35:07,878 --> 00:35:10,058
of all of this information that eventually

504
00:35:10,058 --> 00:35:13,318
there becomes a wider community AI

505
00:35:13,318 --> 00:35:15,498
that has encrypted weights and parameters

506
00:35:15,498 --> 00:35:18,398
to kind of start as a substrate from how you can

507
00:35:18,398 --> 00:35:23,638
spin up your own open-sourced Vora instances you want.

508
00:35:25,098 --> 00:35:34,738
I mean, I love what you guys are doing because like I know you and I've only gotten to know Jesse a little bit so far, but you guys are like you're hardcore fucking dudes.

509
00:35:35,478 --> 00:35:46,898
And you're fundamentally like anti-authoritarian, anti-state, you know, anti-totalitarianism or to put you not in an anti light, you are pro-human freedom and flourishing at your core.

510
00:35:47,278 --> 00:35:49,978
And that's why like I'm so glad that people like you are building these things.

511
00:35:50,138 --> 00:35:51,138
I'm curious, too.

512
00:35:51,278 --> 00:35:54,678
And, you know, somebody had just just asked this on Noster.

513
00:35:55,098 --> 00:35:58,218
on the live stream, if you're listening to this later, it was Soap Miner.

514
00:35:58,798 --> 00:36:05,518
Since most people are midwits and plugged into the matrix, will we even be able to help them

515
00:36:05,518 --> 00:36:10,438
escape or will this take generations to fight for freedom? And I want to go on top of that a little

516
00:36:10,438 --> 00:36:17,538
bit more, which would be like this place that we're at right now in space time or time space,

517
00:36:17,538 --> 00:36:24,398
it feels really important. And it feels like there's a limited window where we can get things

518
00:36:24,398 --> 00:36:29,738
right and if we don't we're going to be in big fucking trouble just in terms of human freedom

519
00:36:29,738 --> 00:36:35,298
in terms of human flourishing so like where are you at with that how does that just fit into your

520
00:36:35,298 --> 00:36:39,678
thesis like how does that inform what you guys are doing at vora how does it inform how you are

521
00:36:39,678 --> 00:36:44,578
just generally living your life and i mean or am i off base like is it actually just kind of same

522
00:36:44,578 --> 00:36:49,438
as it ever was this is always the feeling that everyone has and i'm just kind of like falling

523
00:36:49,438 --> 00:36:55,798
into that same trap or like is this time different from just like the cyclical rhythms of history

524
00:36:55,798 --> 00:37:02,818
perspective well i mean i think uh there's a bit of like the the two entangled in a particular way

525
00:37:02,818 --> 00:37:07,838
like i think anybody who's rode through a particular zeitgeist at a point in time might

526
00:37:07,838 --> 00:37:12,538
have this special feeling uh and maybe for them it's very true and sincere because like uh

527
00:37:13,318 --> 00:37:18,818
you know world work two or world war one could have gone very different ways um

528
00:37:18,818 --> 00:37:24,678
yeah so like i think if you're in the zeitgeist you can have that particular feeling uh with that

529
00:37:24,678 --> 00:37:30,958
being said i think watching the acceleration of technology watching what i mean the fact that like

530
00:37:30,958 --> 00:37:37,778
you and me are a world apart talking right now a lot like like this is magical alien technology

531
00:37:37,778 --> 00:37:44,358
that like go back just 30 years ago people would be like what the absolute fuck is going on you know

532
00:37:44,358 --> 00:37:48,758
and go back 300 years, they'll be like, you're obviously witches that we need to burn alive

533
00:37:48,758 --> 00:37:54,558
immediately. The fact that like the idea of burning anybody alive to us is like, whoa,

534
00:37:54,618 --> 00:37:58,938
that's too radical. Whereas 300 years ago, people would be like, yeah, of course you burn witches

535
00:37:58,938 --> 00:38:03,118
alive. Like what else are you supposed to do? Well, we could drown them. Like that's like a good idea.

536
00:38:03,118 --> 00:38:06,478
We'll see to see if they float. And if they float, they're a witch, then you have to burn them. So

537
00:38:06,478 --> 00:38:12,658
like, yeah, exactly. Perfect system. But like that, that actually points to, to sort of, again,

538
00:38:12,658 --> 00:38:16,778
the same sort of eugenics project that has now made us all homogenized people is that like

539
00:38:16,778 --> 00:38:23,438
people in antiquity believed that like evil was like a real thing like you had to fight and then

540
00:38:23,438 --> 00:38:29,158
like fighting it viciously and with force was like of necessity whereas now today you have like a lot

541
00:38:29,158 --> 00:38:35,158
of hippie like no like evil like what do you mean like god isn't real like bullshit you know you know

542
00:38:35,158 --> 00:38:42,418
like it's a very particular influence and affect that has occurred to the world that that i personally

543
00:38:42,418 --> 00:38:47,078
think is really dangerous because like i think evil is real but we do have to fight it with force

544
00:38:47,078 --> 00:38:52,338
and our unwillingness to do that is part of why we now have a giant cabal of pedophiles that like

545
00:38:52,338 --> 00:38:59,478
essentially run the world and with that being said like vora specifically came about from an instance

546
00:38:59,478 --> 00:39:05,138
of jesse and i being in a very deep dialogue specifically about like hey like first of all

547
00:39:05,138 --> 00:39:11,458
like what's my book crypto sovereignty about why is bitcoin so important uh is it possible to truly

548
00:39:11,458 --> 00:39:16,918
achieve self-sovereignty in the digital age? Does Bitcoin offer that? Can we do it with the

549
00:39:16,918 --> 00:39:22,258
current kind of hardware that we have? And what's the instance of AI within this? And as we kind of

550
00:39:22,258 --> 00:39:26,758
went deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole of this problem, we realized that like AI was kind

551
00:39:26,758 --> 00:39:31,818
of quintessential to it. Because like if you can't self-host your own AI, being able to self-host

552
00:39:31,818 --> 00:39:35,038
your own Bitcoin is going to be all the more difficult because like eventually these things

553
00:39:35,038 --> 00:39:39,598
sort of merge up. So that's why we ultimately pivoted to why we needed to start with AI.

554
00:39:39,598 --> 00:39:44,658
and eventually this becomes a hardcore vault for kind of all of your cryptographic key information

555
00:39:44,658 --> 00:39:50,518
and at the end of the day like philosophy is first and foremost what leads us and really it's sort of

556
00:39:50,518 --> 00:39:55,838
the question of like what is what does it mean to be in the digital age like what does it mean that

557
00:39:55,838 --> 00:40:00,798
we have access to these technologies what does it mean that as human beings you and I can interface

558
00:40:00,798 --> 00:40:06,878
in this way and also what does it mean that uh there are these greater governmental powers that

559
00:40:06,878 --> 00:40:12,058
have radical panoptic capacities to sort of monitor, surveil, and limit us in very particular

560
00:40:12,058 --> 00:40:18,698
ways. And so for us, ultimately, this business is about being able to push philosophy first and

561
00:40:18,698 --> 00:40:24,658
foremost to its rightful place as a first philosophy of how we choose to live and create

562
00:40:24,658 --> 00:40:31,978
in the world. And so for us, Vora is the abstantiation of that and asserting it in the

563
00:40:31,978 --> 00:40:36,738
world and saying we deserve to have compute in a way that we really control, that we know and

564
00:40:36,738 --> 00:40:41,998
understand its weights and parameters and that I'm free and entitled to talk to my AI, give it any

565
00:40:41,998 --> 00:40:48,258
information I want, and really have the volition on my own to choose what I do or don't ask without

566
00:40:48,258 --> 00:40:56,838
limits. What I think is really interesting is, and also I'd just like to say hell yeah to that,

567
00:40:57,258 --> 00:41:02,438
what I think is interesting and just not at all surprising, but something that's worth mentioning,

568
00:41:02,438 --> 00:41:08,058
and I try to beat this drum a lot because most people still seem not to understand this,

569
00:41:08,178 --> 00:41:12,558
but the big AI companies want more regulation.

570
00:41:13,118 --> 00:41:15,338
They want more government interference.

571
00:41:15,718 --> 00:41:17,498
They want more government control.

572
00:41:17,578 --> 00:41:19,598
And they do it under the guise of Sam Altman being there,

573
00:41:19,658 --> 00:41:20,998
being like, this is so dangerous.

574
00:41:21,658 --> 00:41:22,798
We need more regulation.

575
00:41:22,898 --> 00:41:25,178
We can't have these AI models running amok.

576
00:41:25,318 --> 00:41:26,458
We can't have that.

577
00:41:26,978 --> 00:41:28,058
But what do they really want?

578
00:41:28,118 --> 00:41:31,018
They want an expansion of their moat.

579
00:41:31,018 --> 00:41:32,778
They want an expansion of their regulatory mode.

580
00:41:32,778 --> 00:41:45,836
They do not want these things to be able to get out there into the general public for anybody to be tinkering But I feel like they kind of fucked right now because the genie is already out of the bottle Like the open source like the fact that these things are getting open sourced

581
00:41:45,836 --> 00:41:50,276
means that they've actually, these big companies have already lost to a certain extent.

582
00:41:50,416 --> 00:41:51,816
They just don't quite know it yet.

583
00:41:52,276 --> 00:41:53,216
Would you agree with that?

584
00:41:53,816 --> 00:41:54,216
Absolutely.

585
00:41:54,496 --> 00:41:59,056
I mean, I also think that's part of the approach that they're sort of taking

586
00:41:59,056 --> 00:42:01,276
is because if they say, give us the control,

587
00:42:01,276 --> 00:42:08,816
only frontier models are the ones that businesses can use anybody using an open source model or a

588
00:42:08,816 --> 00:42:16,676
Chinese model is not allowed and anybody that's caught using one is illegal and also goes to show

589
00:42:16,676 --> 00:42:21,676
like the brilliance of the CCCP's approach of that like from you know I think this has been

590
00:42:21,676 --> 00:42:26,036
known for more than a decade that like their approach to AI was to open source everything

591
00:42:26,036 --> 00:42:28,956
to make sure that it collapsed the American capitalist model,

592
00:42:29,116 --> 00:42:31,276
which seems to be highly effective.

593
00:42:32,636 --> 00:42:36,676
And also in a lot of ways, like, I kind of think we're at an endgame

594
00:42:36,676 --> 00:42:38,336
because, like, these are open source.

595
00:42:38,656 --> 00:42:41,476
They're highly efficient on a bunch of levels,

596
00:42:41,476 --> 00:42:46,236
and this essentially drops the cost to doing not only software development

597
00:42:46,236 --> 00:42:49,656
but, like, graphics development, all sorts of things to zero,

598
00:42:50,496 --> 00:42:53,756
which, like, that seems to fulfill the Marxian ideal

599
00:42:53,756 --> 00:42:56,116
of like what happens at the end of capitalism

600
00:42:56,116 --> 00:42:57,576
where everything outstrips itself

601
00:42:57,576 --> 00:42:58,976
to create a classless society.

602
00:42:59,596 --> 00:43:01,896
Now getting into that classless society,

603
00:43:02,076 --> 00:43:05,896
this seems to be not only highly dangerous and contentious,

604
00:43:05,996 --> 00:43:08,376
but like creates a lot of tertiary problems.

605
00:43:08,636 --> 00:43:12,236
But I think that the game of software itself

606
00:43:12,236 --> 00:43:13,516
is sort of at an end game.

607
00:43:13,676 --> 00:43:16,616
So like I very much believe probably sometime

608
00:43:16,616 --> 00:43:17,976
in the next three to five years,

609
00:43:17,976 --> 00:43:21,296
like all of these frontier AI companies go belly up

610
00:43:21,296 --> 00:43:23,576
because not only is the cost,

611
00:43:23,716 --> 00:43:27,276
like they're dumping all this time, energy, and effort into compute,

612
00:43:27,276 --> 00:43:30,976
but like the cost of compute for this stuff is going to drop substantially

613
00:43:30,976 --> 00:43:34,396
as these models sort of self-feedback into themselves

614
00:43:34,396 --> 00:43:37,776
and become more and more efficient, find better ways of token usage.

615
00:43:37,956 --> 00:43:43,276
In addition to people being able to like have these different collaborative models

616
00:43:43,856 --> 00:43:47,816
that like hopefully Vora will have to where like you'll be able to get on Noster,

617
00:43:48,036 --> 00:43:50,396
you'll be able to rent a little bit of compute from other people

618
00:43:50,396 --> 00:43:53,196
if you want to run big projects or simulations.

619
00:43:54,256 --> 00:43:56,816
And instead of that going to a company like Amazon

620
00:43:56,816 --> 00:43:58,576
that has a huge data server somewhere,

621
00:43:58,796 --> 00:44:01,976
it just goes out to all the people that have a VOR device at home.

622
00:44:02,456 --> 00:44:06,716
And yeah, it'll split up the instance between 100 different computers

623
00:44:06,716 --> 00:44:08,016
over the course of several hours.

624
00:44:08,176 --> 00:44:12,176
And you get your simulation back in, you know, four or five hours.

625
00:44:12,476 --> 00:44:15,896
And you made five bucks and so did 100 other people

626
00:44:15,896 --> 00:44:18,116
because I was able to buy that from you directly.

627
00:44:20,396 --> 00:44:43,816
I actually, I like, I love that idea to just from a more fundamental premise of that should be the way that quote, the internet works, right? This was always sort of the initial idea of the internet pioneers was to have it be this way was not to have it be all siloed into AWS East, you know, and AWS East goes down.

628
00:44:43,816 --> 00:44:45,896
And it's like, well, okay, fuck, I guess nothing works now.

629
00:44:46,196 --> 00:44:47,256
Like cloud flares down.

630
00:44:47,356 --> 00:44:48,876
Oh, I guess we're all fucked now.

631
00:44:48,956 --> 00:44:50,336
Can't do internet stuff for today.

632
00:44:50,836 --> 00:44:51,956
But we've gotten so far.

633
00:44:52,116 --> 00:44:57,236
And again, so much of that comes back to the regulatory moat that these companies have been able to create.

634
00:44:57,236 --> 00:45:06,176
And you see this as well across all the new compliance with all these digital ID laws or the age-appropriate ID laws,

635
00:45:06,456 --> 00:45:11,636
whether it's in the UK or Australia or name any other nation or Discord just said they're going to start adding.

636
00:45:11,816 --> 00:45:13,416
They did that kind of voluntarily, I guess.

637
00:45:13,816 --> 00:45:16,576
start adding in age verification via ID.

638
00:45:16,776 --> 00:45:18,236
And what does it all come back to?

639
00:45:18,276 --> 00:45:23,276
It comes back to creating a cost of compliance that is too hard for startups to,

640
00:45:23,736 --> 00:45:28,696
they can't compete with that because they don't have the money yet to be able to compete with that cost of compliance.

641
00:45:29,056 --> 00:45:32,856
Whereas the incumbents have the massive legal teams, have the massive budgets.

642
00:45:33,136 --> 00:45:35,816
That's the cost of doing business for them is dealing with this compliance.

643
00:45:35,816 --> 00:45:37,076
And they want that.

644
00:45:37,136 --> 00:45:39,456
And I think people like are asleep at the wheel.

645
00:45:39,456 --> 00:45:44,416
that's whenever i hear these news stories about like well we're just gonna institute uh id checks

646
00:45:44,416 --> 00:45:48,156
on this online platform but it's don't worry guys it's just to keep the kids safe and it's like well

647
00:45:48,156 --> 00:45:51,496
how would you like this fucking rap do you want to rap is you know protect the kids or counter

648
00:45:51,496 --> 00:45:55,636
terrorism because it's all a method of control meanwhile the epstein stuff is out there and it's

649
00:45:55,636 --> 00:46:00,196
very clear that people like bill clinton and other people were very implicit in it so like how much

650
00:46:00,196 --> 00:46:05,756
do you actually give a shit about helping kids in a meaningful way like maybe just maybe you're

651
00:46:05,756 --> 00:46:12,316
actually lying to me for your own benefit but no that's too far and like the like this is one of

652
00:46:12,316 --> 00:46:16,556
the things where like i i have a lot of empathy towards people is like i get that like you're such

653
00:46:16,556 --> 00:46:22,636
a simpleton that like the idea of there being wickedness out in the world and that like maybe

654
00:46:22,636 --> 00:46:28,996
there actually is a cabal of people that are uh engaged in ritual child sacrifice in order to try

655
00:46:28,996 --> 00:46:34,916
to get the powers of moulatch like i i get like that's a horrific and disgusting thought and it's

656
00:46:34,916 --> 00:46:40,836
really difficult to try to swallow but like what if that actually is true and like what does it

657
00:46:40,836 --> 00:46:45,736
mean now that you believe these people when they come to you and tell you that they're trying to

658
00:46:45,736 --> 00:46:49,976
implement age verification to protect the kids meanwhile they're actually taking advantage of

659
00:46:49,976 --> 00:46:55,196
them in the background like is it possible that evil people would lie for their own benefits and

660
00:46:55,196 --> 00:47:01,116
that instead of you accepting that evil is actually a real thing in the world that and that evil people

661
00:47:01,116 --> 00:47:06,456
would then lie to you to take advantage of it that you can't accept that that even exists in

662
00:47:06,456 --> 00:47:11,716
the world which is a beautiful idea like i i really appreciate that like you see the world

663
00:47:11,716 --> 00:47:16,936
as rainbow and sunshines and that we're all we're all equal good people just trying our best

664
00:47:16,936 --> 00:47:22,216
but maybe there's actually some people out there that would be totally cool with cutting the heart

665
00:47:22,216 --> 00:47:27,576
of a living child and sacrificing it to moulatch because they believe that would give them very

666
00:47:27,576 --> 00:47:33,496
real powers i get it's a fucking crazy idea but like let's just try it on for a minute

667
00:47:33,496 --> 00:47:39,716
and if that is true would these people be willing to lie to you maybe i don't know but

668
00:47:39,716 --> 00:47:45,836
it's really difficult because like um and this is why i always try to present people to to

669
00:47:45,836 --> 00:47:52,436
hannah a dent in the banality of evils like look like you can't reason with evil and like there's

670
00:47:52,436 --> 00:47:56,076
no point where it's like they went to eichmann they're like hey you're evil and he was like oh

671
00:47:56,076 --> 00:48:01,316
shit you're right like i shouldn't kill all these people this is like a terrible thing no the whole

672
00:48:01,316 --> 00:48:06,556
time he was like i'm a good guy i'm following the rules like i did what i was told if people don't

673
00:48:06,556 --> 00:48:11,496
do what they're told society collapses and i was like look at this motherfucker he like killed

674
00:48:11,496 --> 00:48:16,216
millions of people and he believes that he's the good guy is it possible all this shit's going on

675
00:48:16,216 --> 00:48:22,196
again maybe is it possible that all these people are the same people in positions of government and

676
00:48:22,196 --> 00:48:27,116
power who believe that when they tell you shit like blowing up kids in Yemen is for the safety

677
00:48:27,116 --> 00:48:36,056
of our republic I don't know oh I'm gone it like wasn't me that dropped out or was it him that

678
00:48:36,056 --> 00:48:42,736
dropped out I don't know you know I'll uh get on signal here if it's just me streaming uh welcome

679
00:48:42,736 --> 00:48:49,036
to my individual podcast I guess this is where we're starting the premiere anyways uh if this

680
00:48:49,036 --> 00:48:54,836
is just me alone i would like to say that i love you all thanks for wanting to to listen to me

681
00:48:55,656 --> 00:49:05,096
diatribe about bullshit okay let's see so am i still live

682
00:49:05,096 --> 00:49:08,316
i guess i might be

683
00:49:08,316 --> 00:49:16,776
yeah yeah yeah i think i am live so thanks for joining me uh walkers having technical

684
00:49:16,776 --> 00:49:24,216
difficulties. I'm streaming on my own here. It's still recording. I don't know, man. Like it's,

685
00:49:24,216 --> 00:49:33,756
I think we need to, I mean, this orange party thing, I'm, I really want to do. I think it's

686
00:49:33,756 --> 00:49:39,316
really important. I think if we asserted it and tried it, we'd win. Maybe it's like a decade down

687
00:49:39,316 --> 00:49:51,956
the road but uh i don't know it scares me it's difficult yeah but i think that might just be in

688
00:49:51,956 --> 00:50:00,136
our fate you know let me text walker and see if he's coming back but uh let me get on uh primal

689
00:50:00,136 --> 00:50:11,236
here. I'll take some of your questions if need be. All right. Walker's coming back. Don't worry,

690
00:50:11,336 --> 00:50:17,476
his internet sucks. Ours isn't so bad here. But this is our studio at San Francisco Presidio

691
00:50:17,476 --> 00:50:22,996
Bitcoin. We're located here in the Presidio. It's a fun place. Some of you should come visit

692
00:50:22,996 --> 00:50:29,056
at some point in time. Yeah, and I'm kind of thinking maybe I'll even do my own podcast out

693
00:50:29,056 --> 00:50:35,616
here. I need to start recording my audio book for crypto sovereignty. So I think I'm going to be

694
00:50:35,616 --> 00:50:42,416
using this space to do that. Because yeah, a lot of people have made the request for an audio book,

695
00:50:42,476 --> 00:50:46,196
it'd be good for me to reread my own book after it's been like three years since I published it.

696
00:50:48,416 --> 00:50:52,136
But yeah, I'm looking forward to doing that should start some interesting dialogue.

697
00:50:53,396 --> 00:50:57,936
Yeah, I think as Bitcoiners, we need to kind of understand like the the future is something that

698
00:50:57,936 --> 00:51:05,236
we can really assert and try to make a meaningful change but if uh i mean kind of truthfully if we're

699
00:51:05,236 --> 00:51:12,176
gonna try to do this like really nice kind way of being like oh please accept bitcoin we love

700
00:51:12,176 --> 00:51:16,616
like oh trying to compromise somebody like i don't i don't think that's gonna work

701
00:51:16,616 --> 00:51:25,296
i think we need to be more assertive uh i think we need to communalize ourselves greater i'd love

702
00:51:25,296 --> 00:51:27,436
to see more circular economies popping up.

703
00:51:27,696 --> 00:51:30,716
We're seeing that happen in more places like El Salvador,

704
00:51:31,016 --> 00:51:32,536
which I just got back from El Salvador.

705
00:51:33,016 --> 00:51:37,136
So I was pretty enthusiastic about what I saw.

706
00:51:37,136 --> 00:51:39,236
I was surprised and impressed.

707
00:51:39,436 --> 00:51:42,876
Like I thought it was going to be a passing thing.

708
00:51:43,096 --> 00:51:44,976
I don't think I'm seeing that like they're really trying

709
00:51:44,976 --> 00:51:46,516
to sincerely develop it down there.

710
00:51:47,096 --> 00:51:50,716
But more than anything else, I'm seeing that education,

711
00:51:51,976 --> 00:51:54,436
and not like I think El Salvador is doing a great job.

712
00:51:54,436 --> 00:52:01,196
I think education on a whole and really getting people to understand why they need Bitcoin is really important.

713
00:52:02,436 --> 00:52:05,696
But, you know, it's very difficult.

714
00:52:06,356 --> 00:52:06,676
Oh, yeah.

715
00:52:06,876 --> 00:52:07,056
Yeah.

716
00:52:07,176 --> 00:52:11,276
Walker's just saying, Quince and all this happened right during the satanic pedo talk.

717
00:52:11,556 --> 00:52:12,096
Yeah, it's true.

718
00:52:14,376 --> 00:52:15,536
Let me just let him know.

719
00:52:16,576 --> 00:52:17,956
I'm in here.

720
00:52:19,496 --> 00:52:20,096
All right.

721
00:52:20,196 --> 00:52:20,456
All right.

722
00:52:20,456 --> 00:52:25,736
So, yeah, I was surprised and impressed with what was going on in El Salvador.

723
00:52:26,036 --> 00:52:26,996
I think we need more of that.

724
00:52:27,836 --> 00:52:30,836
I think we need people encouraging each other to accept Bitcoin.

725
00:52:30,996 --> 00:52:37,616
I think we need to be using Bitcoin as a way to, frankly, really engage in meaningful tax evasion.

726
00:52:40,316 --> 00:52:43,636
Yeah, and ultimately, like, we need to fight back at some point in time.

727
00:52:44,156 --> 00:52:47,076
And at some point in time, this becomes a real fight.

728
00:52:47,916 --> 00:52:48,796
And it's difficult.

729
00:52:48,796 --> 00:53:02,576
You know, like a lot of us have vulnerabilities that we have to come to terms with and that trying to fight the state on its turf is really difficult, particularly if you like own a home or have a family or any of these things.

730
00:53:03,076 --> 00:53:05,656
So I don't know.

731
00:53:05,736 --> 00:53:11,996
That's part of what's made me hesitate from all of this is like I don't want to put my own livelihood at risk.

732
00:53:12,096 --> 00:53:13,376
I don't want to risk my family.

733
00:53:14,116 --> 00:53:15,776
But I think a lot of us feel that way.

734
00:53:15,776 --> 00:53:19,936
and it's also one of those things if we don't make this choice now we have to make this choice

735
00:53:19,936 --> 00:53:30,696
later down the line so like what do we do if that's what happens yep yep okay so yes i am

736
00:53:30,696 --> 00:53:36,016
okay cool yeah so i didn't know if this was live i thought it was live it looks live so

737
00:53:36,016 --> 00:53:44,336
it says live so i'm gonna keep acting like it's live um yeah another other on other fronts stuff

738
00:53:44,336 --> 00:53:45,676
with Vora's going really great.

739
00:53:46,136 --> 00:53:48,956
If you're interested in my book, Crypto Sovereignty,

740
00:53:49,236 --> 00:53:52,156
I'm going to be presenting that at Bitcoin Vegas.

741
00:53:53,336 --> 00:53:54,636
I call it Shitcoin Vegas

742
00:53:54,636 --> 00:53:56,696
because there's a lot of shit-coating that goes on there,

743
00:53:56,736 --> 00:53:57,836
and it's really tragic and sad.

744
00:53:58,856 --> 00:54:01,856
And it's also the place that has the highest Bitcoin signal.

745
00:54:02,356 --> 00:54:06,916
I think that this is one of the places that, as Bitcoiners,

746
00:54:06,916 --> 00:54:10,136
we've sort of made a mistake of doing the pro-Bitcoin thing.

747
00:54:10,716 --> 00:54:13,656
I really like that, particularly in Europe,

748
00:54:13,656 --> 00:54:18,056
between Bitcoin Riga and Bitcoin Prague.

749
00:54:18,296 --> 00:54:22,116
Both of them have made the choice to stay kind of Bitcoin maximalist oriented

750
00:54:22,116 --> 00:54:28,816
versus Bitcoin Vegas, which I feel like is of the pro-Bitcoin subset.

751
00:54:29,556 --> 00:54:32,296
And not to say that there's anything necessarily wrong with pro-Bitcoin,

752
00:54:32,296 --> 00:54:36,036
but I find that it allows for the cozying up of a lot of shitcoiners

753
00:54:36,036 --> 00:54:39,776
and a lot of nihilists and kind of shitty people.

754
00:54:39,776 --> 00:54:45,556
and I think that that's been really problematic to a lot of us

755
00:54:45,556 --> 00:54:49,056
and that's kind of where I think greater resistance needs to be

756
00:54:49,056 --> 00:54:51,656
is kind of calling out the scammers for where they're at.

757
00:54:52,276 --> 00:54:57,416
It's also problematic and difficult with some of our own interfeuding, if you will.

758
00:54:58,496 --> 00:55:02,116
I think I've made it clear kind of my own position on some of that stuff.

759
00:55:02,556 --> 00:55:04,736
I'm happy and willing to talk more about it.

760
00:55:06,396 --> 00:55:09,156
Walker said he's going to be back relatively soon.

761
00:55:09,776 --> 00:55:23,056
But, yeah, I think for me, one of my next big steps, recording my audio book, Crypto Sovereignty, if any of you are interested in like having a dialogue with me about a particular chapter, I'd love to do that.

762
00:55:23,156 --> 00:55:27,396
I actually have a chapter from like two years ago that me and Fractal and Crypt recorded together.

763
00:55:28,216 --> 00:55:29,556
It was really interesting. Great dialogue.

764
00:55:30,256 --> 00:55:35,656
But to me, like at the end of the day, Bitcoin to me is of the political.

765
00:55:35,656 --> 00:55:40,036
And when I say of the political, I mean like capital T, capital P, the political.

766
00:55:40,416 --> 00:55:45,776
So like what the founding fathers did, like what they did was part of the political.

767
00:55:46,016 --> 00:55:48,136
Like they weren't engaging in politics at all.

768
00:55:48,196 --> 00:55:54,036
They were engaging in the political because they were saying, what does it mean that we're human beings?

769
00:55:54,036 --> 00:56:00,116
And like we have an ability and a right to actually organize ourselves politically.

770
00:56:00,116 --> 00:56:06,456
that like this isn't something that comes from the manifest of from God to the sovereign.

771
00:56:07,556 --> 00:56:13,476
And very much for today, like we behave like the United States has some sort of legitimacy

772
00:56:13,476 --> 00:56:18,056
just based on the fact that like they own the apparatus of governance today.

773
00:56:18,996 --> 00:56:22,336
And I think there's a real opportunity for us, particularly with this technology,

774
00:56:22,596 --> 00:56:26,636
not just Bitcoin, not just AI, not just Noster, but kind of all of these things together.

775
00:56:26,636 --> 00:56:29,916
and more importantly that ethos that comes with it,

776
00:56:30,176 --> 00:56:33,036
there's a chance that we could change things,

777
00:56:33,596 --> 00:56:35,656
that we could actually make things better.

778
00:56:36,256 --> 00:56:39,596
I don't know about you, but one of the things that I feel

779
00:56:39,596 --> 00:56:46,616
kind of the greatest amount of resentment towards my parents' generation

780
00:56:46,616 --> 00:56:50,076
is that things feel worse for us.

781
00:56:50,796 --> 00:56:55,936
And I think most people in between the age brackets of 25 and 40

782
00:56:55,936 --> 00:57:01,536
would agree with that statement we we were given a short end of the stick we were given

783
00:57:01,536 --> 00:57:07,336
fiat inflation we were given higher housing prices higher education higher health care

784
00:57:07,336 --> 00:57:15,576
like across the board shit is harder for us and that wasn't true for our parents or

785
00:57:15,576 --> 00:57:22,016
their parents and it's not to blame them but it's to to really point out that like there's

786
00:57:22,016 --> 00:57:27,456
something structurally and inherently wrong and it could be different could be radically different

787
00:57:27,456 --> 00:57:33,896
but until we choose to address the fact that both the republican party and the democrat party are

788
00:57:33,896 --> 00:57:40,696
radically corrupt beyond recovery and until we fundamentally reject both of them as structures of

789
00:57:40,696 --> 00:57:49,556
being capable of governing us uh nothing will actually change and that's what that's what i

790
00:57:49,556 --> 00:57:53,116
want the orange party for i've kind of thought about certain like an orange party podcast and

791
00:57:53,116 --> 00:57:58,996
just making that like a way point for it i guess but again it's difficult you know like i i have

792
00:57:58,996 --> 00:58:06,096
all my own very real human struggles uh yeah that that holds me back in a bunch of ways um

793
00:58:06,096 --> 00:58:11,316
but with that being said at some point we have to take on enough responsibility and kind of set

794
00:58:11,316 --> 00:58:19,476
that stuff aside and say you know what whether whether or not i believe in the possibilities

795
00:58:19,476 --> 00:58:23,596
with this, I still have to make an attempt towards it. And I think that that's important that we try

796
00:58:23,596 --> 00:58:29,116
to do as a people. And when I say people, like I don't mean American, but I mean like people that

797
00:58:29,116 --> 00:58:36,896
love freedom, liberty, choice, the ability and capacity to be able to actually make a substantial

798
00:58:36,896 --> 00:58:42,856
and meaningful change for ourselves and our future and our children's futures. And I think there's a

799
00:58:42,856 --> 00:58:48,736
new sort of ethos that's getting formed and created that has came out of the cypherpunk

800
00:58:48,736 --> 00:58:57,396
movement that's becoming larger and more important and more robust than uh sort of the smallness that

801
00:58:57,396 --> 00:59:03,256
uh the cypherpunk movement developed from and i think it's because well one the internet kind of

802
00:59:03,256 --> 00:59:09,396
touches everything now but i think two is uh that as it touches everything we realize that like if we

803
00:59:09,396 --> 00:59:17,976
don't take on these same ideals and values of sort of taking on what the sort of radical libertarianism

804
00:59:17,976 --> 00:59:21,996
and sort of, in my opinion,

805
00:59:22,116 --> 00:59:28,196
it's sort of like an anarcho-communist synthesis in a lot of ways.

806
00:59:29,176 --> 00:59:30,816
Syndicalism is kind of a pretty good word for it,

807
00:59:30,836 --> 00:59:32,676
whether most people don't know,

808
00:59:32,736 --> 00:59:35,856
but one of the most powerful movements politically

809
00:59:35,856 --> 00:59:38,556
at the turn of the 20th century was something called syndicalism.

810
00:59:38,556 --> 00:59:42,016
It eventually became fascism through national syndicalism.

811
00:59:42,936 --> 00:59:45,616
But all this is like a pretty important development

812
00:59:45,616 --> 00:59:51,096
where syndicalism is the idea of just like people sort of syndicalizing themselves.

813
00:59:51,496 --> 00:59:55,156
Classically, this was done through industrial labor industry.

814
00:59:56,056 --> 00:59:57,936
So like if we were all plumbers,

815
00:59:58,036 --> 01:00:02,456
we would syndicalize our plumbing unions together to make like one big union.

816
01:00:03,116 --> 01:00:05,396
And eventually it went from plumbing to like maybe like all,

817
01:00:06,016 --> 01:00:11,236
you know, like plumbers and electricians and I don't know,

818
01:00:11,236 --> 01:00:13,776
like any other kind of trade union movement.

819
01:00:13,776 --> 01:00:16,516
and it becomes a bigger and bigger and bigger union

820
01:00:16,516 --> 01:00:19,536
until eventually it comprises kind of all of laborers.

821
01:00:19,776 --> 01:00:24,796
But I think at this point we're like past identifying as people who sell our labor,

822
01:00:25,516 --> 01:00:28,276
and I think it is now about being Internet users,

823
01:00:28,596 --> 01:00:31,556
which like as a class that seems like kind of absurd, right?

824
01:00:31,636 --> 01:00:34,056
Like who doesn't use the Internet? Exactly.

825
01:00:34,716 --> 01:00:36,896
Very similar to like at the turn of the 20th century,

826
01:00:36,996 --> 01:00:38,696
like who didn't sell their labor?

827
01:00:39,636 --> 01:00:40,456
Very few people.

828
01:00:40,456 --> 01:00:46,316
at some point I'll have to do like a big long conversation about the development of anarchism

829
01:00:46,316 --> 01:00:52,756
communism capitalism sort of development of all these things since they all kind of have their

830
01:00:52,756 --> 01:00:59,756
origin at Heigl so like it's a big long and robust discussion but we don't need to have that today

831
01:00:59,756 --> 01:01:04,616
and so I think like we need to syndicalize ourselves as internet users and realize that

832
01:01:04,616 --> 01:01:11,076
being users of the internet we sort of need to assert our internet user rights if you will

833
01:01:11,076 --> 01:01:17,716
and we also need like an internet users union something that is uh more or less about like

834
01:01:17,716 --> 01:01:21,756
we can all belong to it maybe it's even a membership based thing i don't know like

835
01:01:21,756 --> 01:01:28,596
eventually this comprises of billions of people right but that through us collectivizing ourselves

836
01:01:28,596 --> 01:01:33,176
around like very agreeable principles,

837
01:01:33,516 --> 01:01:36,956
very much like I think most people in the United States today

838
01:01:36,956 --> 01:01:38,576
would agree with the Bill of Rights,

839
01:01:38,996 --> 01:01:42,416
like the rights that are enumerated in there

840
01:01:42,416 --> 01:01:44,436
and what it means to be an American.

841
01:01:44,696 --> 01:01:47,456
Like it's kind of a low bar to achieve,

842
01:01:47,576 --> 01:01:49,916
but I think we can get something similar for the Internet.

843
01:01:51,036 --> 01:01:53,276
And we need to insist on those rights and values

844
01:01:53,276 --> 01:01:56,556
being extended to kind of everybody that uses the Internet.

845
01:01:56,556 --> 01:02:01,436
Like I don't really – I don't care if you're Chinese or South African or Cambodian.

846
01:02:02,156 --> 01:02:06,916
Like you probably have the same rights, needs, and demands as I do.

847
01:02:07,956 --> 01:02:37,294
And we should probably try to create something together to ensure those rights because I mean it not a future I imagine but maybe at some point in time I got to flee to some other country because of how bad stuff gets here in America or vice versa as most of human history has told You know like I I think America is a pretty great place i really want to protect the ability and capacity for uh people that are in more difficult circumstances to come

848
01:02:37,294 --> 01:02:44,754
here and i really hope that the internet can be a bridge that we can use for that um but again like

849
01:02:44,754 --> 01:02:51,534
this is a large and substantial undertaking that like i don't know i'm like i'm kind of tired like

850
01:02:51,534 --> 01:02:53,454
I want to contribute as much as I can,

851
01:02:53,554 --> 01:02:57,154
but trying to count on me to, like, move the boulder forward

852
01:02:57,154 --> 01:02:59,254
in a capacity or context like this.

853
01:03:00,574 --> 01:03:01,714
That shit's hard, man.

854
01:03:03,554 --> 01:03:04,334
But I don't know.

855
01:03:04,494 --> 01:03:06,454
Like, with the encouragement of some of you

856
01:03:06,454 --> 01:03:11,234
and the ability to go on this journey together, you know,

857
01:03:11,234 --> 01:03:15,174
like maybe we find a solidarity like that Frodo and Sam had

858
01:03:15,174 --> 01:03:20,194
where we can make this long journey to destroy the one ring of power

859
01:03:20,194 --> 01:03:22,554
to the volcano at Mordor.

860
01:03:23,074 --> 01:03:26,854
But yeah, it's going to be a long journey.

861
01:03:29,034 --> 01:03:31,254
Speaking of long journeys, what the fuck happened to Walker?

862
01:03:31,554 --> 01:03:34,294
I think, I hope he'll come back.

863
01:03:34,814 --> 01:03:36,914
He said he's restarting his computer, but we'll see.

864
01:03:38,714 --> 01:03:41,914
Outside of that, you know, like I've been spending a lot of time and energy

865
01:03:41,914 --> 01:03:48,514
really thinking about like what does it mean to create a dwelling for ourselves

866
01:03:48,514 --> 01:03:50,834
in the digital age.

867
01:03:50,954 --> 01:03:52,514
It's what I'm working on right now.

868
01:03:52,554 --> 01:03:55,394
It's based off of a Heidegger piece called

869
01:03:55,394 --> 01:04:00,134
Thinking, Building, Dwelling.

870
01:04:01,014 --> 01:04:02,074
It's a really good piece,

871
01:04:02,154 --> 01:04:05,514
but he talks about how the nature of man is to dwell.

872
01:04:06,434 --> 01:04:07,814
Oh, great. Thank God you came back.

873
01:04:08,194 --> 01:04:12,614
I was about to lecture people on thinking, building, dwelling from Heidegger.

874
01:04:12,814 --> 01:04:16,234
I leave for five minutes and hear you talking about unionizing.

875
01:04:16,234 --> 01:04:22,134
you know and i'm like geez you know i well it's like it's syndicalizing which is like a number of

876
01:04:22,134 --> 01:04:27,094
unions together but you know i'm just gonna say god you're back i don't want to have to explain

877
01:04:27,094 --> 01:04:32,774
heidegger to people anymore uh thank but i i appreciate i am i'm not sure what happened i'm

878
01:04:32,774 --> 01:04:38,554
not sure if it's you know the wife watching netflix or the satanic pedophiles but um satanic

879
01:04:38,554 --> 01:04:45,914
up there the amazing thing is that while uh apparently i was down i was still able to watch

880
01:04:45,914 --> 01:04:48,674
it on Noster on my phone, which is kind of amazing.

881
01:04:48,774 --> 01:04:50,074
So I felt like I was still here with you.

882
01:04:50,194 --> 01:04:51,814
I thought they were good rants.

883
01:04:52,174 --> 01:04:55,414
Are you going to do an audio book for Crypto Sovereignty?

884
01:04:56,454 --> 01:05:00,774
Yeah, that was kind of why I got set up in the studio here today was because I wanted

885
01:05:00,774 --> 01:05:06,454
to do the stream here, but also I wanted to get set up to start doing that because the

886
01:05:06,454 --> 01:05:10,314
book has been out for almost three years now, so it's kind of time to get started on that

887
01:05:10,314 --> 01:05:10,594
point.

888
01:05:10,594 --> 01:05:14,714
I feel like it'll encourage more people to kind of engage in this dialogue that I'm interested

889
01:05:14,714 --> 01:05:15,014
in.

890
01:05:15,014 --> 01:05:21,234
And, yeah, a lot of people don't know how to read, so reading it to them is helpful.

891
01:05:23,074 --> 01:05:27,414
Dude, first of all, you're going to read it yourself, right?

892
01:05:27,574 --> 01:05:30,014
Yeah, that's why it hasn't happened yet.

893
01:05:30,954 --> 01:05:31,354
Okay.

894
01:05:31,734 --> 01:05:32,894
Dude, I'm not going to lie.

895
01:05:32,974 --> 01:05:34,854
Audiobooks, they are not easy.

896
01:05:34,934 --> 01:05:36,914
It is a shocking amount of work.

897
01:05:37,274 --> 01:05:41,514
But also I feel like you reading it in your tone and your voice

898
01:05:41,514 --> 01:05:44,174
and you knowing the material better than, like, obviously anyone else

899
01:05:44,174 --> 01:05:50,794
is kind of like crucial for this particular book you know what i mean yeah so like i'm i'm kind of

900
01:05:50,794 --> 01:05:55,594
thinking like uh i'm gonna read a chapter and then i don't know how i'm gonna structure it but like

901
01:05:55,594 --> 01:05:59,654
i then kind of want to do like a secondary reading where i'm like all right i mentioned like all this

902
01:05:59,654 --> 01:06:03,874
shit that i have to kind of go into so like in the second paragraph i say this thing that's a

903
01:06:03,874 --> 01:06:09,074
reference to this and then i reference it because of blah blah blah because there's a bunch of shit

904
01:06:09,074 --> 01:06:12,414
like almost every other paragraph, I have something like that tucked in there.

905
01:06:12,694 --> 01:06:16,634
And so I guess on some level, like sort of knew I was going to do this in the future

906
01:06:16,634 --> 01:06:17,574
and wanted to explain it.

907
01:06:17,634 --> 01:06:19,314
But also that's what a lot of philosophy is,

908
01:06:19,314 --> 01:06:23,474
is like having these secondary readings to like unpack all of this shit in a particular way.

909
01:06:25,754 --> 01:06:27,234
Well, I'm stoked for it.

910
01:06:27,254 --> 01:06:29,594
You're going to end up having like a 50-hour audiobook though,

911
01:06:29,714 --> 01:06:31,374
but like I'm totally here for it, you know?

912
01:06:32,514 --> 01:06:35,554
Yeah, and like I'm trying to figure out like do I kind of keep it like

913
01:06:35,554 --> 01:06:38,994
just the raw reading on like chapter one?

914
01:06:39,074 --> 01:06:43,854
Or like, do I have like my extended version where I read the first paragraph and I go,

915
01:06:43,934 --> 01:06:46,234
okay, like I just mentioned this thing.

916
01:06:46,754 --> 01:06:47,734
Here's all the subset.

917
01:06:48,034 --> 01:06:51,414
All right, I'm going to like move on to the second paragraph and like keep doing that.

918
01:06:51,894 --> 01:06:52,534
So I don't know.

919
01:06:52,654 --> 01:06:54,154
We'll see how it all works out.

920
01:06:54,274 --> 01:06:59,074
I'm hoping the AI recording software might be good enough that like I can kind of do it all one in the same.

921
01:06:59,314 --> 01:06:59,774
But we'll see.

922
01:07:01,914 --> 01:07:04,954
Yeah, it's going to be a fun journey for you.

923
01:07:05,354 --> 01:07:08,434
So I was listening to a number of the things you said there.

924
01:07:08,434 --> 01:07:10,834
And you brought up the orange party as well because like,

925
01:07:10,834 --> 01:07:13,754
and also shout out to average Gary for building out a,

926
01:07:13,754 --> 01:07:18,854
just like a propel of nothing built out a website for it.

927
01:07:18,894 --> 01:07:21,554
If you go to, I think it's, I think it's at the orange party.org.

928
01:07:22,314 --> 01:07:26,114
But he literally took, he took like the one.

929
01:07:26,234 --> 01:07:26,334
Yeah.

930
01:07:26,414 --> 01:07:30,094
It's the orange party.org or the orange party.org.

931
01:07:30,154 --> 01:07:32,814
I just say the now for, for a lot of things.

932
01:07:32,814 --> 01:07:34,314
It's probably because it's the Bitcoin podcast,

933
01:07:34,454 --> 01:07:38,234
but he took that conversation that you and I had with American HODL

934
01:07:38,234 --> 01:07:41,894
and just basically got AI to like, okay, synthesize this,

935
01:07:41,974 --> 01:07:43,034
put it into like a party format.

936
01:07:43,034 --> 01:07:45,094
And it's like a really nice, clean site too.

937
01:07:45,654 --> 01:07:47,994
And I think there is almost a need, you know,

938
01:07:48,034 --> 01:07:49,634
I heard you brought up as well, like, okay,

939
01:07:49,634 --> 01:07:52,414
maybe you just like start a podcast around this.

940
01:07:52,454 --> 01:07:54,874
And I think it's actually beneficial.

941
01:07:55,174 --> 01:07:58,134
Like who was, I forget if it was Dick Greaser or Rod Palmer,

942
01:07:58,334 --> 01:08:00,654
one of the Bugle guys who, when they were on my show,

943
01:08:00,694 --> 01:08:03,034
they were like, you know, it used to be the man in the arena.

944
01:08:03,034 --> 01:08:04,294
Now it's the man in the studio.

945
01:08:04,494 --> 01:08:06,714
Like the man in the studio is the man in the arena now,

946
01:08:06,714 --> 01:08:09,314
which I thought was like, it was kind of brilliant.

947
01:08:10,394 --> 01:08:12,114
There being a little tongue in cheek,

948
01:08:12,214 --> 01:08:13,354
but also not at all tongue in cheek,

949
01:08:13,374 --> 01:08:15,394
because I think that that's actually meaningful.

950
01:08:15,774 --> 01:08:19,894
Like media has, it's like, it's always,

951
01:08:20,014 --> 01:08:21,634
it's a form of control,

952
01:08:21,654 --> 01:08:23,574
but it's also a form of liberation, right?

953
01:08:23,674 --> 01:08:25,694
It has a dualism to it, like a lot of things.

954
01:08:26,234 --> 01:08:28,674
And throughout history, there's never been a time

955
01:08:28,674 --> 01:08:31,754
where we had this like many to many

956
01:08:31,754 --> 01:08:33,434
or one to many like distribution model.

957
01:08:33,434 --> 01:08:35,654
It's always been like one,

958
01:08:35,654 --> 01:08:42,354
it's always been one to many and it's always been hyper controlled it's always been just working

959
01:08:42,354 --> 01:08:47,554
hand in glove with governments it's always been or the church depending on how far back you go

960
01:08:47,554 --> 01:08:52,354
right it's always been a method of control and obfuscation of the truth and now we have this

961
01:08:52,354 --> 01:08:57,434
opportunity with like new media in this age where you and I were you know I'm sitting in a studio in

962
01:08:57,434 --> 01:09:02,754
a weird room in my house you're sitting in a studio in the presidio like we are able to broadcast

963
01:09:02,754 --> 01:09:08,494
with the same efficacy as somebody with a multi-million dollar studio, right?

964
01:09:08,514 --> 01:09:14,514
And that's like a hugely powerful, and you don't even need these fancy Shure SM7B mics

965
01:09:14,514 --> 01:09:15,294
and a Rodecaster.

966
01:09:15,534 --> 01:09:19,174
Like you can just broadcast via this supercomputer in your pocket.

967
01:09:19,274 --> 01:09:22,174
And I feel like that's such a, it's such a liberating force.

968
01:09:22,374 --> 01:09:28,074
And it's again, one of those things where the genie doesn't go back in the bottle with this.

969
01:09:28,354 --> 01:09:29,794
They can't put this away.

970
01:09:29,794 --> 01:09:40,614
And so I truly think like where we're at right now, and you see this even with, you know, like any sort of legacy media you can consume because they're not mainstream anymore.

971
01:09:40,694 --> 01:09:41,614
They are legacy.

972
01:09:42,414 --> 01:09:44,074
It's all just such trash.

973
01:09:44,234 --> 01:09:46,074
Like most of it was already slop.

974
01:09:46,314 --> 01:09:48,154
And now it's just even sloppier.

975
01:09:48,314 --> 01:09:50,874
And they're just they're slowly dying.

976
01:09:50,954 --> 01:09:57,014
I don't know how like I don't know how anybody still advertises with a lot of these publications anymore.

977
01:09:57,014 --> 01:10:05,714
I mean, even the Financial Times publishing that article from whatever, Jemima Kelly about Bitcoin's $69,000 too expensive, basically.

978
01:10:05,814 --> 01:10:10,094
And then they changed the article like an hour later because Bitcoin was $70,000.

979
01:10:10,414 --> 01:10:11,394
So they had to change the headline.

980
01:10:11,494 --> 01:10:13,354
It's just like nobody trusts you anymore.

981
01:10:14,014 --> 01:10:15,874
They haven't trusted you for a long time.

982
01:10:16,014 --> 01:10:16,954
Like you are dying.

983
01:10:17,534 --> 01:10:19,574
You just don't necessarily realize it yet.

984
01:10:20,294 --> 01:10:24,174
But like from their ashes, something better has been reborn, I think.

985
01:10:25,574 --> 01:10:26,414
Yeah, for sure.

986
01:10:26,414 --> 01:10:42,354
I was thinking about how it's always also like on the precipice of these technological changes that like Gutenberg's printing press like allowed for the printing of the Bible to be read by individuals like Luther who then were like, hey, like maybe like don't need the fucking church for this stuff.

987
01:10:42,734 --> 01:10:51,534
And same thing like that printing press also like allowed for people to distribute their own pamphlets, which they could be like, hey, like, you know, like maybe like the king isn't the right way to do this.

988
01:10:51,594 --> 01:10:53,094
Maybe we should do like a representative thing.

989
01:10:53,094 --> 01:10:59,674
so yeah i do think it's a radically empowering thing uh and also like i kind of feel like the

990
01:10:59,674 --> 01:11:05,794
call to arms just to be like hey we need we need a different approach and like this form of

991
01:11:05,794 --> 01:11:10,294
governance is broken i think a lot of people would answer the call it's kind of like the field of

992
01:11:10,294 --> 01:11:15,574
dreams thing like build it and they will come um but on another level like it's also like pretty

993
01:11:15,574 --> 01:11:22,614
terrifying it's like you know we were just talking about a that were ran by a uh satanic cult of

994
01:11:22,614 --> 01:11:31,394
uh pedia pedophilia eating children uh and like it's i don't know like on one level it's kind of

995
01:11:31,394 --> 01:11:37,874
scary and it feels unrealistic and on the other level it feels very real and direct um but at

996
01:11:37,874 --> 01:11:43,074
some level like i don't know i think most people that have children eventually realize that like

997
01:11:43,074 --> 01:11:47,574
we're gonna leave them a world that's like a lot worse than the one we inherited the one we

998
01:11:47,574 --> 01:11:51,114
inherited was like a lot shittier than our parents so it's like can we do that to them

999
01:11:51,114 --> 01:11:57,954
like i feel like our parents at least like they you know like i always find this really interesting

1000
01:11:57,954 --> 01:12:03,374
that like my mom was a single mom who like had a really hard time getting by we like grew up poor

1001
01:12:03,374 --> 01:12:11,674
uh but like she still managed to like buy a house and like keep it like if you're a single mom today

1002
01:12:11,674 --> 01:12:17,814
like there's no fucking way that's even remotely on the table um and they're like is a real lack

1003
01:12:17,814 --> 01:12:22,874
of appreciation from the generation before of like what that means it's funny because like i uh

1004
01:12:22,874 --> 01:12:28,054
i live in a place right now that i rent and i i have the thought a lot of times like like how the

1005
01:12:28,054 --> 01:12:34,094
fuck do you create any sense of community in like a like a rental place because like i you know like

1006
01:12:34,094 --> 01:12:38,694
the drain's broken there isn't good incentive for me to fix it but say like same thing about anything

1007
01:12:38,694 --> 01:12:44,314
with the house or like you know planting a garden like what's the incentive like i don't know if i'll

1008
01:12:44,314 --> 01:12:51,094
be there in the next year so like why uh and it's pretty sad because like that that that starts to

1009
01:12:51,094 --> 01:12:56,594
conform society in a very particular way to where uh there's no longer such thing as community

1010
01:12:56,594 --> 01:13:01,534
because community is about this similar to what i was going to start talking about like it's about

1011
01:13:01,534 --> 01:13:07,834
dwelling it's about a place that you really intend to not just live but like that's where your life

1012
01:13:07,834 --> 01:13:13,594
emanates from whereas simply residing in a building for some duration of time is not

1013
01:13:14,314 --> 01:13:20,554
about building community. It's just about passing time. And I think that without something like the

1014
01:13:20,554 --> 01:13:25,874
Orange Party, we're going to find ourselves kind of continuously caught between these two highly

1015
01:13:25,874 --> 01:13:31,294
corrupt and frankly evil parties. And like my dream with the Orange Party is like eventually

1016
01:13:31,294 --> 01:13:37,134
figure out that we have political policy at that point, sweep the elections. And then it's like

1017
01:13:37,134 --> 01:13:43,974
full on like PAC state official offices with state attorneys that are like loyal to Orange Party.

1018
01:13:44,314 --> 01:13:47,994
And full sweep of the feds of put them all on trial for treason.

1019
01:13:48,194 --> 01:13:51,674
And at the end, like whoever's found guilty, hang them publicly.

1020
01:13:52,174 --> 01:14:03,834
And like it's a scary prospect, but like I fundamentally believe that most federal representatives, meaning more than 50 percent, like I think there are traitors to the American republic.

1021
01:14:03,834 --> 01:14:13,514
I think that they have directly collaborated with foreign corporations and governments to essentially sacrifice the American public.

1022
01:14:14,314 --> 01:14:32,874
And I think that like unless we make it very clear that the rule of law is applicable to everyone and that if you are in a federal public office and you try to get around the rules for your own benefit, you will be held accountable.

1023
01:14:32,874 --> 01:14:37,314
And I think right now, you know, take Nancy Pelosi, for example.

1024
01:14:37,454 --> 01:14:42,994
Like why is it that she's been a career politician and she is worth hundreds of millions of dollars?

1025
01:14:42,994 --> 01:14:50,034
like that that seems to be very indicative of corruption and i find it wild that there's a lot

1026
01:14:50,034 --> 01:14:55,734
of people who will outright defend her and i don't know maybe we get farther down the road on this

1027
01:14:55,734 --> 01:15:01,154
when we realize there's a lot more corruption than we want to believe but i'd like to think

1028
01:15:01,154 --> 01:15:06,514
that we're better than that so but this goes back to the initial point that we were discussing

1029
01:15:06,514 --> 01:15:11,454
earlier which is like the fact that you brought up like look most people just aren't going to

1030
01:15:11,454 --> 01:15:18,894
actually care or change in any way, even with the realization that there is all this just heinous,

1031
01:15:19,574 --> 01:15:24,634
all these heinous things being done at the highest levels of our government with regard to Epstein.

1032
01:15:25,434 --> 01:15:31,594
It's like, I just, I don't know what ends up shaking people loose of this because you can tell

1033
01:15:31,594 --> 01:15:36,854
somebody that, well, Nancy Pelosi's got, you know, 200, 200, $300 million net worth, whatever it is,

1034
01:15:36,854 --> 01:15:42,154
like, you know, and how is that? How is that possible? Why is she? Why is her stock trading

1035
01:15:42,154 --> 01:15:46,674
record and her husband's like, one of the greatest of all time? How does she even have time for all

1036
01:15:46,674 --> 01:15:50,874
of that? Like, oh, my God, she must really be spending time studying so much. Or like, even

1037
01:15:50,874 --> 01:15:54,494
even look at like Elizabeth Warren, you know, champion of the people, she's got a net worth of

1038
01:15:54,494 --> 01:15:59,314
like 60 million or something. And I'm not knocking them because they have a high net worth. I'm

1039
01:15:59,314 --> 01:16:02,554
knocking them because they've abused their positions of power. That's the fundamental

1040
01:16:02,554 --> 01:16:06,054
difference. There's nothing wrong with having a lot of money. There's something wrong with being

1041
01:16:06,054 --> 01:16:11,434
in a position where you were elected to serve the people and then you just basically rape and abuse

1042
01:16:11,434 --> 01:16:17,654
that position like you are just you are the lowest of the low like i mean even these we had multiple

1043
01:16:17,654 --> 01:16:25,274
cases during covid of federal reserve uh governors that uh rosen grand kaplan and there's one more

1044
01:16:25,274 --> 01:16:30,674
whose name i'm forgetting who were caught insider trading they didn't even get punished for it they

1045
01:16:30,674 --> 01:16:35,634
They just like, Jerome was like, well, we'll institute new ethics policies.

1046
01:16:35,634 --> 01:16:37,274
And it's like, oh, because those work really well.

1047
01:16:37,374 --> 01:16:38,734
Like, you fucking idiot.

1048
01:16:38,734 --> 01:16:44,654
Like, no, like this is just, it's all, it's corrupt to the core, I think, is the problem, Eric.

1049
01:16:44,734 --> 01:16:46,434
And like, you talk about this all the time.

1050
01:16:46,514 --> 01:16:57,174
It's just like this duopoly that we have, this, as my father-in-law who escaped communism calls it, he's like, Walker, in America, you have Coca-Cola, Pepsi-Cola democracy.

1051
01:16:57,174 --> 01:17:00,694
You don't like Coca-Cola, you get Pepsi-Cola, but you still drink cola.

1052
01:17:01,194 --> 01:17:01,794
And it's true.

1053
01:17:01,954 --> 01:17:02,914
It's that idea.

1054
01:17:03,734 --> 01:17:04,974
He loves America, by the way.

1055
01:17:05,034 --> 01:17:06,254
He's been in America for a long time.

1056
01:17:06,314 --> 01:17:08,254
He defected from communism to get here.

1057
01:17:08,754 --> 01:17:13,494
He knows what communism looks like, and he does not want it to happen here.

1058
01:17:14,054 --> 01:17:23,054
But honestly, it just gets frustrating to the point where I think everybody, because of the dualism of our political system,

1059
01:17:23,054 --> 01:17:30,594
everybody feels that they must defend their team no matter what that team does everyone feels they

1060
01:17:30,594 --> 01:17:36,414
must attack other team no matter what that team does good or bad on either side right and it's

1061
01:17:36,414 --> 01:17:42,414
the same for both but we because of that we will never actually have meaningfully honest conversations

1062
01:17:42,414 --> 01:17:48,174
about the true nature of the corruption because everybody will defend their own team even when

1063
01:17:48,174 --> 01:17:51,854
they know they've got like there's a bunch of satanic pedophiles on both sides right like

1064
01:17:51,854 --> 01:17:57,534
satanic pedophilia has bipartisan fucking support but we're never going to get anywhere with it

1065
01:17:57,534 --> 01:18:02,614
because everybody just holds the party line and and i don't know like you're right we're never

1066
01:18:02,614 --> 01:18:06,934
going to vote our way out of that because you're voting for two sides of the same coin like two

1067
01:18:06,934 --> 01:18:11,354
sides of the same satanic pedophilic coin that happen to have different colors and it's like

1068
01:18:11,354 --> 01:18:17,354
what do you do like but more parties you know like having a big parliamentary system isn't necessarily

1069
01:18:17,354 --> 01:18:22,534
the the answer either with a bunch of you know coalition governments but that's why i think this

1070
01:18:22,534 --> 01:18:26,414
idea that that you kind of initially posited around the orange party is so powerful because

1071
01:18:26,414 --> 01:18:32,294
it starts out as more of a cultural movement than a political but it is necessarily political in its

1072
01:18:32,294 --> 01:18:37,794
nature like is that kind of the way you you frame it like the cultural leading to the political or

1073
01:18:37,794 --> 01:18:44,154
being part of the political yeah and i think that and and like i i think the lowest substrate in it

1074
01:18:44,154 --> 01:18:47,634
is like the rejection of the red and blue guys

1075
01:18:47,634 --> 01:18:51,194
with that like, you know, pedophilia and satanicism

1076
01:18:51,194 --> 01:18:54,374
has bipartisan support and we project that.

1077
01:18:55,014 --> 01:18:58,374
And starting there, like I think is kind of the best place that you can do.

1078
01:18:59,514 --> 01:19:01,894
And also like I think part of the problem is that like

1079
01:19:01,894 --> 01:19:06,814
we're so atrophied and calcified into looking backwards

1080
01:19:06,814 --> 01:19:09,014
to answer the political that like we,

1081
01:19:09,014 --> 01:19:15,814
the idea of looking forward away from classic approaches seems nearly impossible.

1082
01:19:16,094 --> 01:19:27,534
And like the I think we all have this boner for democracy because we believe that like everybody should have a say within our systems and forms of governance, which I think there's some credence to that.

1083
01:19:28,154 --> 01:19:34,494
But with that being said, like, why isn't there something that's more about like a real time liquid democracy thing?

1084
01:19:34,494 --> 01:19:47,614
Like, I feel like if there was an ability to because like the other thing is, is like I joke a lot about fascism kind of tongue in cheek and part of it's serious, part of it's not because like specifically with the world we're dealing with today.

1085
01:19:47,614 --> 01:19:53,674
Like I if you had a hardcore fascist movement where you had a leader that was like, give me the power.

1086
01:19:53,814 --> 01:19:55,174
I will hang the pedophiles.

1087
01:19:55,174 --> 01:20:00,894
I will butcher the satanic culturist, which is kind of ironic because that's satanic in its own right.

1088
01:20:00,894 --> 01:20:06,234
but like I will deal with these things through the law and capital punishment.

1089
01:20:06,434 --> 01:20:10,114
I'd probably support them because like I'm pretty angry about how corrupt things are

1090
01:20:10,114 --> 01:20:16,074
and like I have a very deep disgust for somebody like Elizabeth Warren

1091
01:20:16,074 --> 01:20:18,374
mostly for her hypocrisy.

1092
01:20:18,934 --> 01:20:21,774
Like it would be really different if she wasn't so hypocritical

1093
01:20:21,774 --> 01:20:27,194
in trying to like lecture me about how I don't care for the people

1094
01:20:27,194 --> 01:20:30,834
and that I want Bitcoin to be able to destroy the environment

1095
01:20:30,834 --> 01:20:36,194
And it's like, bitch, like how, like, like you have the audacity to try to lecture me on this.

1096
01:20:36,254 --> 01:20:41,374
Well, well, like you literally started out as a woman who said, I'm going to stand up against the big banks.

1097
01:20:41,374 --> 01:20:45,334
And now you take more money from the big banks than any other representative.

1098
01:20:46,294 --> 01:20:51,834
Like, like, it's just, it's a real smack to the face.

1099
01:20:53,114 --> 01:20:56,414
And more than anything, I'm really resentful about that.

1100
01:20:57,294 --> 01:20:59,874
And I think there's a lot of people out there that feel the same way.

1101
01:20:59,874 --> 01:21:09,094
And I think that trying to collectivize ourselves and realize that like there's there's a technological solution we have to this that nobody's thought of yet.

1102
01:21:09,774 --> 01:21:19,734
And I feel like if we really put our heads together and tried our best to find a way to approach that and kind of synthesize all these things, maybe there's a real answer.

1103
01:21:21,154 --> 01:21:22,514
But it's also really scary.

1104
01:21:22,514 --> 01:21:31,094
It's not like, you know, it's not like you start organizing something like this and the Democrats and Republicans are like, they're like using cryptography to like build the system.

1105
01:21:31,254 --> 01:21:31,734
Like, dang it.

1106
01:21:31,834 --> 01:21:39,914
Like we, you know, like, and this is like where the wrench attack thing comes from is it's like, ha ha, I've encrypted my passwords.

1107
01:21:40,154 --> 01:21:41,134
You'll never get it from me.

1108
01:21:41,174 --> 01:21:43,994
And it's like, yeah, just beat them with this wrench for a while and we'll see what happens.

1109
01:21:44,314 --> 01:21:47,834
So like there's a lot of risk with this stuff.

1110
01:21:47,874 --> 01:21:51,374
And I think there's very strong forces of not only propaganda, but other things.

1111
01:21:51,374 --> 01:21:56,254
But at some point we have to ask ourselves, like, when is actually enough enough?

1112
01:21:56,834 --> 01:22:04,214
And I think, like, that's a really terrifying question because I think a lot of people realize that there probably actually isn't a point.

1113
01:22:04,654 --> 01:22:10,194
You know, like, if the police did come to their house and ask them to murder their neighbor, they'd probably be okay with it.

1114
01:22:11,194 --> 01:22:15,914
And, like, I don't want to be critical of other people for the choices that they make.

1115
01:22:15,914 --> 01:22:32,174
But I personally really want to be able to leave a better future for my kids and feel like they have greater rights and capacity to protect those, but also the ability to have real privacy and to be able to have the volition to ask questions that they want to.

1116
01:22:33,194 --> 01:22:37,814
And that's something that is really insignificant lack today.

1117
01:22:38,014 --> 01:22:45,134
That like even trying to ask sincere questions around any taboo topic is really difficult.

1118
01:22:45,134 --> 01:22:51,994
and so I don't know I think a lot about these things and how there's an opportunity that

1119
01:22:51,994 --> 01:22:55,734
presents itself to us but we just have to be courageous enough to actually seize it

1120
01:22:55,734 --> 01:23:01,234
uh and I'm afraid like maybe I'm too chicken shit to do that and like it's a deeply shameful

1121
01:23:01,234 --> 01:23:07,074
thing to have to actually like kind of see it and be like I don't know like maybe I'm too

1122
01:23:07,074 --> 01:23:14,614
afraid to do this I I feel that sentiment very deeply I also think that it's different because

1123
01:23:14,614 --> 01:23:17,734
like when you have kids, right?

1124
01:23:17,734 --> 01:23:19,934
Like you, you fund

1125
01:23:19,992 --> 01:23:25,912
Mentally, when you have children, there is now something that you do care about more than yourself.

1126
01:23:26,112 --> 01:23:29,312
And you, that was the, our son was born.

1127
01:23:30,092 --> 01:23:35,392
That was when I first understood what like true low time preference meant and actual long-term

1128
01:23:35,392 --> 01:23:35,772
thinking.

1129
01:23:35,872 --> 01:23:40,352
I thought I did, but I really only grasped it in this sort of theoretical academic way

1130
01:23:40,352 --> 01:23:41,892
where I was like, well, yeah, I'm a long-term thinker.

1131
01:23:41,952 --> 01:23:44,172
I mean, I'm thinking long into the future, you know, generations, right?

1132
01:23:44,172 --> 01:23:47,852
But it's like, no, until you see that next generation there, I don't think you can really

1133
01:23:47,852 --> 01:23:48,632
grapple with that.

1134
01:23:48,632 --> 01:23:56,112
Like there's a reason that even most of the revolutionaries, the great men who built this country were very young men.

1135
01:23:56,212 --> 01:23:58,892
Right. And obviously some of them were married, like some of them had kids, too.

1136
01:23:58,912 --> 01:24:06,792
But like a lot of them were were very young, like they were brimming with fucking testosterone and hatred of the fucking tyrannical British Empire.

1137
01:24:06,972 --> 01:24:10,592
And they went out there with reckless abandon and put their lives in the line.

1138
01:24:10,592 --> 01:24:14,212
that gets a lot harder to do when you are,

1139
01:24:14,392 --> 01:24:18,872
when you have like a child or children to answer to, I think.

1140
01:24:19,112 --> 01:24:20,352
It's like, I feel that like there,

1141
01:24:20,412 --> 01:24:21,972
there is a balance there where it's like,

1142
01:24:21,972 --> 01:24:25,312
to what point do you put yourself out there?

1143
01:24:25,332 --> 01:24:27,532
To what point do you risk yourself?

1144
01:24:27,532 --> 01:24:29,252
Because you're not just risking yourself anymore.

1145
01:24:29,252 --> 01:24:31,092
When you have kids, you're risking everything.

1146
01:24:31,252 --> 01:24:32,472
Like you're risking your family.

1147
01:24:32,492 --> 01:24:34,412
And I think that's where it becomes a difficult proposition.

1148
01:24:34,832 --> 01:24:36,312
And it is hard to grapple with.

1149
01:24:36,312 --> 01:24:37,392
Cause then at the same time, you're like, well,

1150
01:24:38,232 --> 01:24:40,532
but fucking a, like nobody else is stepping up.

1151
01:24:40,592 --> 01:24:41,652
Nobody else is doing this.

1152
01:24:41,832 --> 01:24:43,132
Nobody else is speaking the truth.

1153
01:24:43,612 --> 01:24:47,992
How do you, you know, but will I just be one of the others that slinks back into the darkness

1154
01:24:47,992 --> 01:24:51,092
and decides, well, I'll let somebody else do that?

1155
01:24:51,272 --> 01:24:54,072
Or will I be the one who tries to speak the truth?

1156
01:24:54,692 --> 01:24:59,192
And I think fundamentally, too, where I always come back to, because, you know, you brought

1157
01:24:59,192 --> 01:25:00,472
up this point about privacy, too.

1158
01:25:01,012 --> 01:25:03,932
And I think that that's so important for our kids to have.

1159
01:25:03,932 --> 01:25:05,692
It's something that I think about a lot.

1160
01:25:05,692 --> 01:25:13,792
And I think that it's become this idea that the whole trope of why do you need privacy if you have nothing to hide?

1161
01:25:14,212 --> 01:25:15,832
Why do you need that, right?

1162
01:25:15,892 --> 01:25:16,972
That old trope.

1163
01:25:17,252 --> 01:25:26,112
And it's so insidious because we're now at a point where our kids could grow up with literally zero privacy, like of any kind.

1164
01:25:26,172 --> 01:25:27,792
Not even private thoughts.

1165
01:25:27,912 --> 01:25:31,032
No private communications of any kind unless maybe you're in person.

1166
01:25:31,032 --> 01:25:38,632
But even if you're in person, if you're in any sort of concentrated, you know, urban or suburban area, you're still going to be surveilled there.

1167
01:25:38,692 --> 01:25:39,692
That's all still going to be tracked.

1168
01:25:39,752 --> 01:25:41,172
It's all still going to be associated with your face.

1169
01:25:41,192 --> 01:25:49,872
It's all going to be tagged to your social profile, which is ultimately then going to be assessed by AI and determine whether or not you're a threat to the societal order.

1170
01:25:50,112 --> 01:25:52,232
And, you know, for the greater good, maybe you need to be removed.

1171
01:25:52,232 --> 01:25:57,772
it is a terrifying fucking prospect because i don't think you can have any sort of actual

1172
01:25:57,772 --> 01:26:03,972
freedom without privacy at its core like i think you need that i don't think you can have true

1173
01:26:03,972 --> 01:26:08,872
free speech if you can't speak freely in private i don't think you can have anything without

1174
01:26:08,872 --> 01:26:13,572
privacy at its core but people just don't give a shit like people really don't give a shit about

1175
01:26:13,572 --> 01:26:18,992
privacy like at all and they're perfectly willing they haven't suffered the convenience right

1176
01:26:18,992 --> 01:26:28,072
you know it's yeah um it's like at the core of the idea of not having privacy is really about

1177
01:26:28,072 --> 01:26:33,832
thought modification and making it so that you can't think in a way that has any dissonance

1178
01:26:33,832 --> 01:26:40,292
within it you know because like uh this is why volition and the ability to think for yourself

1179
01:26:40,292 --> 01:26:47,172
is so important it is not that like not because i'm going to shove a fork in the light socket on

1180
01:26:47,172 --> 01:26:52,132
my own. But if I can't be like, Oh, if like, if I'm told to shove a fork in a light sock and I do

1181
01:26:52,132 --> 01:26:56,732
it anyway, it's like, I'm going to learn from the lesson of it. But if we're not allowed to think

1182
01:26:56,732 --> 01:27:00,612
for ourselves, I can't be like, Oh, like maybe this is dangerous to me. Maybe I shouldn't do that.

1183
01:27:00,612 --> 01:27:04,532
Like maybe even if Bob said to do it, that that like, that's a dangerous thing.

1184
01:27:05,732 --> 01:27:29,924
And so to me like there there we entering into an age of extraordinary danger of where not only can we lose the ability to actually have the privacy and the ability to have volition to think for ourselves but that becomes something much more extreme in that getting outside of that box to even consider why it could have value is starting to become endangered in itself

1185
01:27:29,924 --> 01:27:38,904
and I think the other thing is is that uh I think the truth is is that like we exist in a very

1186
01:27:38,904 --> 01:27:44,804
important time and that like in five years from now like this thing is we kind of either have

1187
01:27:44,804 --> 01:27:51,184
freedom or we don't and like those are kind of the options on the table um and the other one is

1188
01:27:51,184 --> 01:27:56,944
like and I think Trump Trump's election and appeal is a signalist like people are fucking sick of

1189
01:27:56,944 --> 01:28:04,704
normal politicians like people people hate the the Nancy Pelosi's and Chuck Grassley's of the world

1190
01:28:04,704 --> 01:28:12,664
like we're we're no longer interested in this kind of performative appeal to everybody like we want

1191
01:28:12,664 --> 01:28:18,304
people that'll actually kind of speak off the cuff and be real people and I think Trump captures some

1192
01:28:18,304 --> 01:28:22,924
of that in a particular way and so like while I think the prospect of something like an orange

1193
01:28:22,924 --> 01:28:29,984
Party, while it seems far-fetched from our particular angle right now, like kind of every

1194
01:28:29,984 --> 01:28:35,604
major political movement seemed like that at its fruition. You know, whether it was Lenin's

1195
01:28:35,604 --> 01:28:40,824
Communist Party and when he wrote what needs to be done in 1906 and the development that happened

1196
01:28:40,824 --> 01:28:46,524
over the next decade that allowed her to seize Russia, or the fact that the Nazi Party in 1927

1197
01:28:46,524 --> 01:28:51,924
only captured three percent of the vote in Germany, and then like it happened to sweep the elections by

1198
01:28:51,924 --> 01:28:59,484
1933. Like any radical political movement seems very nascent at its beginning. But I think Bitcoiners

1199
01:28:59,484 --> 01:29:05,324
seem to have captured a particular form and ethos that while it's still definitely in the minority,

1200
01:29:05,324 --> 01:29:12,644
like I think we're looking at history in the right direction. I think if you look at some of the works

1201
01:29:12,644 --> 01:29:19,784
of a number of individuals like Lawrence Lepard's work that shows, like just do the math and you'll

1202
01:29:19,784 --> 01:29:25,384
see that the US dollar is going to die, that people are going to need an alternative, that

1203
01:29:25,384 --> 01:29:29,804
Bitcoin seems to be the best representation of what that alternative is, not just for

1204
01:29:29,804 --> 01:29:32,084
Americans, but for the globe on a whole.

1205
01:29:33,164 --> 01:29:36,964
I think we should try to assert that politically in a large and meaningful way.

1206
01:29:38,904 --> 01:29:43,084
And like, I hate the one that I'm the most pedantic about it because it seems to ascribe

1207
01:29:43,084 --> 01:29:45,404
some particular responsibility towards me.

1208
01:29:45,464 --> 01:29:46,824
But like, I don't fucking want it.

1209
01:29:46,904 --> 01:29:47,604
I just see it.

1210
01:29:47,604 --> 01:29:49,744
And I like, I want somebody else to pick it up and run with it.

1211
01:29:49,784 --> 01:29:53,524
I'm happy to help and do and encourage it.

1212
01:29:54,404 --> 01:29:55,204
But I don't know.

1213
01:29:55,404 --> 01:29:56,884
Maybe I should just accept fate

1214
01:29:56,884 --> 01:29:59,224
and that I'm sort of doomed towards something like this

1215
01:29:59,224 --> 01:30:00,124
and I don't want it.

1216
01:30:00,704 --> 01:30:03,244
But maybe that would make me a good dictator.

1217
01:30:03,664 --> 01:30:04,724
And to be clear, I'm a dictator.

1218
01:30:04,724 --> 01:30:10,784
I'm super like this representative democracy thing to me is bullshit.

1219
01:30:10,924 --> 01:30:13,524
Like I don't understand why I'm supposed to collectivize myself

1220
01:30:13,524 --> 01:30:15,724
with a bunch of fucking idiots that can't think for themselves.

1221
01:30:15,724 --> 01:30:26,184
Why the fuck should somebody who hasn't studied any amount of history have the same right and capacity to make comments on those as I do?

1222
01:30:26,864 --> 01:30:32,664
And I get that that's inflammatory in a particular way, but I think most people are fucking morons.

1223
01:30:33,064 --> 01:30:37,264
And that's why when you talk to them about money and they're like, well, the dollar is backed by gold, right?

1224
01:30:37,364 --> 01:30:39,804
It's like, I don't know where to start here.

1225
01:30:41,304 --> 01:30:42,444
So I don't know.

1226
01:30:42,444 --> 01:30:45,204
I'm a bit resentful about the whole thing,

1227
01:30:45,204 --> 01:30:47,124
but at the same time, like,

1228
01:30:47,124 --> 01:30:50,884
and like with all of, with shitting on people like that,

1229
01:30:50,884 --> 01:30:52,664
there's also brilliant, incredible,

1230
01:30:52,664 --> 01:30:54,324
extraordinary individuals that are making

1231
01:30:54,324 --> 01:31:05,436
massive contributions to humanity a thousand times over in the most incredible ways And like I that part of why I so big on individual rights is that like I way

1232
01:31:05,436 --> 01:31:10,936
more concerned and interested in the one in one million people that can become Einstein's

1233
01:31:10,936 --> 01:31:16,536
and protecting the ability and capacity for them to explore and discover and allow for

1234
01:31:16,536 --> 01:31:23,816
them to become who they can really be with their potential than I am in helping out the

1235
01:31:23,816 --> 01:31:32,096
other you know 999,000 people that are absolutely it's that will never make an impact on the world

1236
01:31:32,096 --> 01:31:38,396
like I just I just I very much believe in the individual in very radical ways so that's kind

1237
01:31:38,396 --> 01:31:44,896
of gives you some idea of how I approach things when so much of it just also comes back to like

1238
01:31:44,896 --> 01:31:53,456
the perversion of the law and private property and the fact that like we're we don't and to bring

1239
01:31:53,456 --> 01:31:57,556
back to community and then we'll wrap this up because I've kept you along already and I made

1240
01:31:57,556 --> 01:32:02,596
you I made you roll solo for a while and I appreciate I appreciate you doing so but but

1241
01:32:02,596 --> 01:32:08,536
this idea are you gonna make me roll again by myself no not at all not at all but you started

1242
01:32:08,536 --> 01:32:16,196
to break up there oh geez fuck I was hoping I'm hoping not so far so good Jesus um you know the

1243
01:32:16,196 --> 01:32:20,196
idea that like you talked about community earlier and building that now that's actually like not

1244
01:32:20,196 --> 01:32:24,416
possible without the dwelling, right? And it's not possible without private property. And it also

1245
01:32:24,416 --> 01:32:29,896
gets back to this idea of why communism ultimately deteriorates and fails is because when people

1246
01:32:29,896 --> 01:32:34,196
don't have ownership, when there's quote, collective ownership, nobody gives a shit about

1247
01:32:34,196 --> 01:32:38,456
things. When things are yours, when you have private property, you protect those things,

1248
01:32:38,456 --> 01:32:44,516
you make those things better. You grow upon those things to create more when it's not yours,

1249
01:32:44,676 --> 01:32:48,816
when it's just, you know, the parties, when it's the collectives, you don't actually give a fuck

1250
01:32:48,816 --> 01:32:53,856
about that. And so much of what democracy goes toward ultimately, like the end state of it is

1251
01:32:53,856 --> 01:32:58,636
mob rule, right? And this is something that's been around for thousands of years with like

1252
01:32:58,636 --> 01:33:04,916
Polybius's anticyclosis was this first kind of like instantiation of this, which was you start

1253
01:33:04,916 --> 01:33:10,056
out, you know, the society's moving in these sociopolitical cycles where it starts out with

1254
01:33:10,056 --> 01:33:15,496
a monarch. The monarch becomes a dictator. From dictatorship, you move to an aristocracy that

1255
01:33:15,496 --> 01:33:20,316
takes over from that and they govern well for a while it moves to an uh oligarchy when the when

1256
01:33:20,316 --> 01:33:24,016
that gets corrupted from the oligarchy you move to a democracy and everything is great and fine

1257
01:33:24,016 --> 01:33:29,416
and then it moves to mob rule eventually uh oglocracy and then eventually what is necessary

1258
01:33:29,416 --> 01:33:34,556
to get out of mob rule and oglocracy well that's a strong man a monarch uh you know a dictator to

1259
01:33:34,556 --> 01:33:39,016
come back in and be able to bring things and to right the ship essentially and i think that like

1260
01:33:39,016 --> 01:33:45,396
we're at the uh we're right on the verge of that oglocracy stage right now where democracy it's

1261
01:33:45,396 --> 01:33:50,736
being clear that that is just, it's not working as well as people kind of thought it does,

1262
01:33:50,796 --> 01:33:53,036
or as well as people want to imagine that it does.

1263
01:33:53,736 --> 01:33:55,776
And, and we're going to have a reckoning with that.

1264
01:33:55,816 --> 01:34:01,416
People are, because it's like, you can't just keep taxing people to hell while at the same

1265
01:34:01,416 --> 01:34:04,996
time saying, well, your vote is just the same as everyone else's, no matter how much you

1266
01:34:04,996 --> 01:34:06,076
contribute to the society.

1267
01:34:06,196 --> 01:34:09,096
Like people eventually are going to get sick and tired of that.

1268
01:34:09,116 --> 01:34:10,076
And I think they are already.

1269
01:34:10,076 --> 01:34:14,576
And the fact that you're also stealing from them every single day, week, month, year through

1270
01:34:14,576 --> 01:34:19,876
inflation at the same time while taxing them to death, it's like people are just getting sick and

1271
01:34:19,876 --> 01:34:24,516
tired of it and they will eventually break. And I think that, you know, we're going to start,

1272
01:34:24,596 --> 01:34:29,976
it's going to be a chaotic time, Eric, a very chaotic time. For sure. And the question is,

1273
01:34:29,976 --> 01:34:37,196
how are we going to respond to that kind of breakdown? And, you know, like I think there's

1274
01:34:37,196 --> 01:34:59,408
some new political form that synthesizes technology democratic rights republicanism like how much one pays into a system I think there some pretty novel and interesting ways to approach this question but I think we need to actually try to address it technologically at some point in time

1275
01:34:59,508 --> 01:35:04,428
And it feels like now is the time, particularly with AI and where it's at in its development.

1276
01:35:04,428 --> 01:35:08,408
Because also, like, it seems to me how radical these powers are,

1277
01:35:08,488 --> 01:35:11,648
that people are going to be restricted from having access to it.

1278
01:35:11,648 --> 01:35:22,008
And I think that that's going to be a huge preeminent right in the next 10 years is be able to say, look, like all people everywhere have a right to this form of knowledge and to be able to interact with it as they choose.

1279
01:35:22,008 --> 01:35:38,288
And trying to limit some people from being able to have access to that like is inherently and fundamentally wrong because it turns out like if a kid is brilliant and he has access to one of these things, he can make discoveries that will affect and help all of humanity.

1280
01:35:38,288 --> 01:35:41,728
And if they're restricted from it, well, nothing will ever become of them.

1281
01:35:42,148 --> 01:35:47,288
So, yeah, I just want to kind of encourage everybody to, like, think about this in big ways.

1282
01:35:47,468 --> 01:35:51,808
Challenge yourself to consider what and how we could change the world.

1283
01:35:52,088 --> 01:35:58,488
And I don't know, maybe it's time that we actually try to talk to Marty Bent about this.

1284
01:35:58,568 --> 01:36:03,308
Is that, like, maybe on the 250th anniversary of the American independence,

1285
01:36:03,308 --> 01:36:07,428
maybe we should try to find an orange party and its principles

1286
01:36:07,428 --> 01:36:11,828
and, like, substantiate that in a meaningful way to then carry forward.

1287
01:36:12,548 --> 01:36:13,268
It's a fun idea.

1288
01:36:13,568 --> 01:36:16,328
I'm a big ideas guy, not so much on the execution side.

1289
01:36:17,208 --> 01:36:19,828
Well, I mean, you can count me in.

1290
01:36:20,028 --> 01:36:23,048
And we already know, you know, we've got Hoddle in.

1291
01:36:23,248 --> 01:36:25,748
We'll opt him in since he's not here as well.

1292
01:36:26,628 --> 01:36:29,528
Eric, I've kept you for a while now, and I appreciate you running solo.

1293
01:36:29,988 --> 01:36:33,728
Where can people go to find out more about Vora, by the way,

1294
01:36:33,768 --> 01:36:36,088
for anybody who was listening and was like, yeah, that sounds fucking awesome?

1295
01:36:36,988 --> 01:36:38,288
Yeah, go to Vora.io.

1296
01:36:38,448 --> 01:36:42,288
You can sign up for what's going to eventually become

1297
01:36:42,288 --> 01:36:44,728
sort of our launch for pre-sales.

1298
01:36:44,868 --> 01:36:46,728
We're hoping to get that out by the end of Q2.

1299
01:36:46,888 --> 01:36:48,768
We'll kind of see how development happens.

1300
01:36:49,568 --> 01:36:51,288
If you're interested in my own work,

1301
01:36:51,348 --> 01:36:52,448
you can follow me on Twitter.

1302
01:36:52,668 --> 01:36:54,588
It's just my name, Eric Kaysen.

1303
01:36:55,668 --> 01:36:58,028
Or you can find me on Noster as well.

1304
01:36:58,608 --> 01:36:59,948
And if you're interested in my philosophy,

1305
01:37:00,208 --> 01:37:01,668
I have a book called Crypto Sovereignty.

1306
01:37:01,668 --> 01:37:05,808
You can find most of the writings at cryptosoveignty.org as well.

1307
01:37:06,088 --> 01:37:13,048
and shout out to all the folks who did join on noster and who zapped some sats as well

1308
01:37:13,048 --> 01:37:17,348
appreciate you all we are living in the future already here on noster it's just not even

1309
01:37:17,348 --> 01:37:22,548
distributed yet eric thank you man i always i always appreciate these uh these sessions with

1310
01:37:22,548 --> 01:37:28,048
you i always leave hating the state just a little bit more but also a little bit more bullish on

1311
01:37:28,048 --> 01:37:34,348
humanity so cheers cheers indeed fuck the state for anybody who uh was waiting for me to say that

1312
01:37:34,348 --> 01:37:34,868
I couldn't.

1313
01:37:35,028 --> 01:37:35,648
There we go.

1314
01:37:35,728 --> 01:37:36,908
We made it right to the end.

1315
01:37:37,588 --> 01:37:37,848
So.

1316
01:37:38,188 --> 01:37:38,608
All right.

1317
01:37:39,568 --> 01:37:44,168
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin talk episode of the Bitcoin podcast.

1318
01:37:44,828 --> 01:37:53,068
Remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you're watching or listening and share it with your friends, family and strangers on the Internet.

1319
01:37:53,068 --> 01:38:01,828
Find me on Noster at primal.net slash Walker and this podcast at primal.net slash titcoin on X YouTube and Rumble.

1320
01:38:01,828 --> 01:38:08,468
Just search at Walker America and find this podcast on X and Instagram at titcoin podcast.

1321
01:38:08,628 --> 01:38:11,168
Head to the show notes to grab sponsor links.

1322
01:38:11,168 --> 01:38:16,828
Head to substack.com slash at Walker America to get episodes emailed to you and head to

1323
01:38:16,828 --> 01:38:19,788
Bitcoin podcast.net for everything else.

1324
01:38:20,328 --> 01:38:23,888
Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant.

1325
01:38:24,168 --> 01:38:29,508
So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to the Bitcoin podcast.

1326
01:38:29,508 --> 01:38:32,548
Until next time, stay free.