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What does it mean to switch into a 10x mindset?

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What does it mean to achieve things at a completely different rate, different level of impact?

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It's a moment of identity shift, right?

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And any direction that's taken, some subsection of what Bitcoin is to people has to be compromised.

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And so how do we navigate that as a community?

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And it's not just one homogenous community, right?

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It's layers and bubbles and, you know, interactions and all these superset of communities.

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Because we're trying to build technologies that last lifetimes.

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All right.

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We got coffee.

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I don't need it.

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In Costa Rica.

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I don't even know if I can drink it.

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I've already had a surf.

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Nice.

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How was it?

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It was beautiful.

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Oh, good.

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The sunrise here is insane. And there was like 20 Bitcoiners out there.

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Wow.

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It was beautiful.

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Oh, that's so fun.

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Have you been down to the beach this morning?

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No, not yet this morning. Had a nice sunrise meditation.

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Oh, nice. Very Costa Rica.

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Love that. Well, Amiti, welcome back to the show.

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Thank you.

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The first time you were on the show, you were an intern at Chaincode working on Bitcoin Core.

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You were the first female contributor to Bitcoin Core, is that correct?

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First identified.

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Yeah. And then since then, you went into sort of coaching. So do you want to start off by just telling everyone what you did, how you got to where you are today before Way, and then we're going to get into Way.

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Yeah, I guess my journey into Bitcoin Core was a series of passionate curiosities and good fortunes.

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My previous job prior to Bitcoin life, prior to learning about it, was working at this services marketplace called Simbi.

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And there it was all about trading and bartering goods and services.

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And there, one of the users of the platform was like, hey, you guys have this virtual currency and the vibe that you have is so right.

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You need to learn about Bitcoin.

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So he came into our office and just straight up orange-pilled us.

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Like, flash forward, I'm doing a scuba dive weekend and sitting on the sofa of a hostel, like, reading the Bitcoin white paper.

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And my takeaway from that was not to understand what this thing is at all.

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It was that the internet is really fast.

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You can get a message out to all computers on the whole network in the entire world within 10 seconds.

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I mean, that does sound insane.

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Isn't that crazy?

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Yeah.

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We live in a very advanced world, but it compelled my curiosity.

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And so for years after, I just kept being like, what is this thing?

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How does it work?

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Does it work?

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How do I learn more?

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How do I get closer?

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And through that years of, you know, fading in and out, leveling up, getting closer, I

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eventually became a Bitcoin core protocol developer.

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And what really compelled me was the peer-to-peer layer.

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the kinds of questions of you are a node in an unknown network that's adversarial,

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but you need to collaborate with people in order to know what's the best chain,

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tell them what your transaction is, things like that.

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So how do you find peers to connect to?

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How do you decide who to stay connected to?

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How do you send out your transactions but maintain some idea of privacy?

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Those kinds of questions are what really compelled me and led to a series of protocol contributions that I've made.

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I'm proud of a lot of my contributions. I've changed how we broadcast transactions to make them more private.

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The address manager is what Bitcoin Core uses to manage who other peers are.

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And with collaboration with Martin, we rewrote the whole thing, changed the address protocol for the network at large.

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You know, lots of improvements to long term thinking for security, privacy.

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It was a ton of fun.

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I love the intellectual challenge.

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It's kind of it's a bit of an impossible challenge.

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you're trying to make changes in a network where the question how many nodes are on this network

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could be probably a series of academic research papers because one what's a node two what's the

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network three if anybody could know that's a bad thing for the entire network

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so anyways i had uh many years of having um an amazing time working in the peer-to-peer

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layer of of bitcoin core and the bitcoin protocol um and and then somehow kind of organically over

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time i got pulled into this other thing that now has a name called way and yeah we can dive into

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that when you first discovered bitcoin as like a software engineer is your first instinct to be

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Like, I'm going to see if I can break it.

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Oh, yeah.

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I think that was my first and my second and my third and my fourth.

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And I think till this day, I still hold the question of, does this thing actually work?

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Or what will break it?

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What do you mean, does it work?

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Because it does work.

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So what are you sort of questioning?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Great question.

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it clearly works for certain utilities at certain points in time right like there are many many

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different ways in which bitcoin works um whether or not it will continue to work into future of

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unknown size big question mark um whether or not it works for everyone in the way it needs to work

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big question mark so to me the thing that makes bitcoin bitcoin the thing that makes it compelling

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and interesting is, you know, we say censorship resistant, but it's really that no one can prevent

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anyone else from participating in the network. And sounds fancy, but this is actually very

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primitive. Like if I want your shirt and I say, here, take my bag, no one can stop that unless

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they're physically here and they violently stop it. But in our digital age, and this transformed

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into any tangible currency, if it was gold or if it was cigarettes in a refugee camp or whatever,

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right? But in our digital age, people can just totally arbitrarily stop it. Even in America,

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one of the countries where money works best in all of the countries in the world,

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people's bank accounts get shut down on a daily basis, and the bank is not allowed to tell them

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why. I've heard stories of people just like their bank account gets shut down. And then randomly,

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six months later, there's a check mailed to like their parents' house in a different country

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for the entire content of their bank account. Totally insane. And like, and the scary thing

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is, and I think we'll probably start to see this happen, like, especially in the UK with their sort

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of crackdown on hate speech, however you define that online is like, that's going to be another

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reason people are going to get their bank account shut down. Like we saw it happen to Nigel Farage,

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who's a totally polarizing figure.

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Don't get me wrong.

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But he's still leading the party that is most likely to be elected next election.

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And he had his bank account closed down because of his opinions and his views.

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That's really scary.

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But when you say Bitcoin has to work for everyone,

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are you really saying it has to be freedom tech for everyone?

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That's the Bitcoin I'm interested in.

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I think different people have different definitions of what Bitcoin is

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and what success looks like.

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But for me, the version of Bitcoin I care about are people who need money as a tool to achieve some ends, but for some reason aren't allowed that access, denied privilege of using this tool.

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And I think that's really silly.

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It's just a tool.

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And so Bitcoin being an option for them is the version of Bitcoin that is meaningful to me.

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today. That is anchorwatch.com. I totally agree with that. When you say the sort of future threats

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to Bitcoin, will it continue to succeed? What do you see as the biggest future threat?

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Oh my gosh. So many. I think the conversation of the threat of quantum is really interesting.

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and I'm not at all the most informed,

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but several people who I consider very, very smart

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who have been engaged in this

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think that quantum is a very existential threat to Bitcoin.

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I don't think that's the only one.

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Personally, I look a lot at the social layer

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and I think that in order for Bitcoin

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to be globally accessible money that anyone can use,

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we still have big changes that need to be made.

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We have, there's privacy, there's security, there's scalability, there's access, you know, there's education, all these things.

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And so conversation that talks about, for example, ossification or that social layer that prevents progress from being made in the name of preserving security, privacy, something like that.

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I think those are really, really big threats to ensuring that this technology can actually be something meaningful that lasts for lifetimes.

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Yeah, the quantum one, I think, is really interesting because I'm in no way a quantum expert.

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But I'm not going to bet against human ingenuity here.

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There's also billions and billions of dollars going into this.

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I think at some point they'll get a quantum computer that's probably good enough to crack elliptic curve cryptography.

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That's the one that's going to crack, isn't it?

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Yes.

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I mean.

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Just checking.

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amongst other things but but getting smashed by leaves um but if that does happen i also believe

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that like there's going to be bitcoin developers like there's already bit 360 where they're

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working on things that will be quantum uh resistant addresses the problem i have though is again on

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the social layer what do we do with like old coins and that whole debate because like the the idea

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that we go out and confiscate old coins because they could potentially be stolen by an attacker

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is just like a non-starter for me like as soon as you break bitcoin's property rights this is

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To me, that's Bitcoin failing anyway, regardless of any quantum attack.

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I think it's going to get pretty spicy over the next few years.

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Totally.

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Yeah, it's a moment of identity shift, right?

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And any direction that's taken some subsection of what Bitcoin is to people has to be compromised.

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And so how do we navigate that as a community?

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And it's not just one homogenous community, right?

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It's layers and bubbles and interactions and all these superset of communities.

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And I think Quantum is one example.

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But my stance is I've taken a step back from being like,

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what do I think is the single most threatening thing?

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As a dev, I was looking at that,

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like what's something really important, really threatening?

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And I looked a lot at long-term security

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and approached that through protocol development.

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But now I'm kind of like, how do I support a wide array of intelligent thinkers who are engaged to move forth with their own personal, you know, hypotheses, theories of what is the biggest threat?

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And help them be clear enough, solid enough, effective enough to put that into the shared space.

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You know, it's really, I do have a very kind of decentralized ideology, fairly internalized from working on the technical P2P layer, but now looking at it in the social lens.

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Like, I think that what we need as an ecosystem is competing ideas of what the biggest existential threat is and different visionaries and leaders who can share to others why this needs to be worked on, you know, people to work on it, implement robust solutions, people to challenge those robust solutions in thoughtful discourse.

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and, you know, eventually unity as a community to adopt whatever over here, over there, over there.

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Like, I think if we all focused on the same thing that we wouldn't be building the future that we need.

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For sure.

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Does that make sense?

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It makes total sense.

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So when, like, I do want to get into what you're doing now, but when did you decide to leave Core and why,

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or stop contributing to Core?

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Why did you decide that?

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Yeah, totally.

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Um, so, I do have a moment in time, which is convenient for being on a podcast.

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But basically, 2024, I went to my first Oslo Freedom Forum, and I walked out of that week

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in just this very energized confusion going, huh, I guess I'm starting a nonprofit.

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it. And that was when I decided to temporarily pause coding and see what this nebulous thing was.

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So the journey has been a lot longer. Before that, I had organically started coaching people

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and doing that in addition to doing my full-time coding job. And that's kind of what led to,

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when I was at the Oslo Freedom Forum, why people in the wonderful HRF community were like,

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Like, hey, Amidi, everyone is talking about these problems.

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These problems being things like the psychological toil, the challenges focusing on long-term solutions, burnout, these human aspects of working in open source, working on permissionless technology.

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And the theme, the problems were everywhere.

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Everyone's talking about it.

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But they convinced me by saying that I was the only one who was talking about the solutions.

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And at the time, my form of solutions was fairly organic and individual.

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And it was in the form of coaching other people, other devs in the ecosystem.

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And the shift for me was, okay, what would it look like for me to put my attention onto

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designing scalable solutions, designing a social layer that helps us have more resilience,

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support each other to pursue long-term meaningful changes. And that's what's led to where Way is at.

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And it's been a series of learning. And this past year, I guess 2025, has been an incredible journey

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of a lot of experimentation and a lot of traction.

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And so that's just information that is informing

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what 2026 is gonna look like where we gonna go So maybe it worth starting with the problems because open source development I obviously never done it but like I imagine it tricky because there not necessarily one direction that everyone taking I sure there sort of structures in there where people are

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project managing and telling people like what they should be working on. Is there not? Is it

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just literally choose your own adventure, go and write some code? I wouldn't say there's none,

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but that is definitely not the norm. That's not even close to majority. It's mostly choose your

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own adventure. And yeah, it's kind of wild. There's a burden of this solopreneur journey.

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And, you know, as, and it goes beyond devs. I think it really applies to people who are

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independently working in general, but specifically in this ecosystem, there's trends, you know,

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But let's use the example of me as a dev and the grant ecosystem.

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And this is the case for many, many other people.

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But you have to figure out what you're working on.

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You have to figure out how to work on it.

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You have to find people to collaborate with.

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You have to build your own team.

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You have to advocate for yourself in terms of fundraising.

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So you have to market yourself to a certain degree.

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You have to advocate for your work.

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So you have to socialize it and market your work as well.

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In addition to the day-to-day challenges of you don't have a boss, when do you take time off?

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Is going to a conference taking time off or is it not taking time off?

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You know, how many hours a day is a normal amount of hours to work?

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Like all of these different things.

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So you really actually have to essentially run an entire organization as an individual.

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But you don't think about it that way.

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You're not a creator.

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You're not somebody who's like, okay, let me spend 20% of my time doing business development.

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What are those words?

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You're like, I'm a dev.

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I write code.

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And you're working on some of the most complex systems.

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Like as a software engineer, I've seen a lot of different projects in the world.

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And the Bitcoin protocols, the complexity of them are, I don't know, top 5% of complex

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technical projects.

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Easy.

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You know, it's no joke.

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And so in addition to all of that as requirements, also like you either, if nobody mentored anybody, the ecosystem wouldn't grow.

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So hopefully people are mentoring people.

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And you obviously want to grow because life's no fun if you're not learning.

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So then you have to do your personal development.

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And this is just off the top of my head.

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You know, like not to be, I don't want to be mean here to developers, but you don't necessarily think of developers as being excellent marketers.

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They're incredibly different skills.

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I'm sure some of them are great at it, but they're very different skills.

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So like, how do you address all those problems then?

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Are you going in and like teaching people about business development and marketing and how they can sort of sell their ideas?

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Okay, great question.

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How do we address the problems?

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And, you know, I wish it was a silver bullet, but really the answer is in a layered way.

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And before we get right there, I want to talk about one more thing that I find interesting on the problem front,

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which is our research report has coined this term, the tyranny of permissionlessness.

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And I think that's really interesting to focus on because the idea is that the same values,

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the freedom to work on whatever you want, nobody can stop you, just do things, right?

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these values that lead to these technologies that we're passionate about can be kind of oppressive

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when applied without intention to human systems. And so this double-edged sword, this tyranny of

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permissionlessness, I think is a very interesting way to put a label on something that we face as an

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ecosystem challenge. And I think it's important to recognize it as an ecosystem challenge,

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because if we only treat it as an individual challenge,

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it's not that we can't address it at individual layers

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and that there's value, like, and we do, you know,

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Wei is doing that.

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I've contributed to working on that.

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But I think what's really important

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is that we realize that this is a shared challenge.

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And if we treat it as such,

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there's so much that we can do to work on it.

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And so what I'm doing and what Wei is doing

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is hopefully part of the solution,

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But the world I want to live in is a more robust, decentralized, permissionless ecosystem.

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And it's this opportunity to radically rethink how work works.

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We know that there's tons of companies that are business bureaucracy that exist in the world and people who show up to their job but don't actually do anything.

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And there's a lot of ways that conventional structures don't work, whether it's for certain people or for certain businesses, for example.

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And we have this opportunity to build an entire new way of working.

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And we're seeing so much traction in that.

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The grant ecosystem right now versus when I started contributing, like early 2019, is a completely different space.

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In addition to the grant ecosystem, there's so many different, you know, like shops, like engineering shops, right?

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Chaincode, Brink, Localhost, 2140.

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So we're in a different and also onboarding programs.

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There's programs, BitChalla, Bitcoin for open source,

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blah, blah, blah.

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It's really cool.

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There's so much going on.

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So anyways, I just kind of want to mention that looking at it at that ecosystem lens,

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I think is the most powerful thing.

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And now I'm happy to drill into what what way does and how we address that at different layers.

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But I want to pause there.

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Is this making sense?

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It makes total sense.

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00:23:46,050 --> 00:23:49,530
So what's your sort of overall take on the grant ecosystem?

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because there's obviously a few companies doing,

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I'm sure there's more than I can name,

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doing really good work.

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There's OpenSats, there's Brink, there's HRF, Chaincode.

314
00:23:57,830 --> 00:24:00,310
Like, have we got enough people funding this development?

315
00:24:01,350 --> 00:24:03,950
Oh, if you want an answer to that question,

316
00:24:04,170 --> 00:24:08,190
have you seen that report that, is it 1A, 1Z?

317
00:24:08,450 --> 00:24:09,410
Yeah, they're great.

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I've not seen the report, but they are great.

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Well, they have a report

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00:24:12,810 --> 00:24:15,850
and they look at the funding ecosystem.

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And I think that puts forward the information

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of is there enough and uh if you ballpark it compared to any numbers of of like looking at

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00:24:27,250 --> 00:24:32,910
bitcoin and it's you know whether it's market cap or the amount of development fund compared to if

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00:24:32,910 --> 00:24:38,550
it was a company or anything like that it's a tiny fraction does that report say how many million go

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00:24:38,550 --> 00:24:45,810
to developers every year i think so i i don't remember off the top i mean i mean it's a two

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$2 trillion project that these people are working on.

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Like that should be.

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00:24:50,510 --> 00:24:57,830
And so if that was a company, how much would be spent on first off engineers, which is easier to quantify, but also for Bitcoin to succeed.

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00:24:57,830 --> 00:24:59,290
We need a lot more than engineers.

330
00:24:59,290 --> 00:25:08,650
We need educators and builders and project managers and like all sorts of, you know, recruitment, like all these dimensions we have are real.

331
00:25:08,650 --> 00:25:15,670
You know, so it's hard to make a claim that there is sufficient funding.

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00:25:15,950 --> 00:25:18,710
But I also think that funding is not the only issue.

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00:25:19,670 --> 00:25:27,590
And do you think, so from my understanding, the way these grants often work is sometimes there'll be sort of monthly payments to work on a project.

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Sometimes they'll do long-term grants.

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00:25:29,450 --> 00:25:31,770
Like, is the structure of the grants sufficient?

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00:25:32,970 --> 00:25:33,210
Yeah.

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00:25:33,330 --> 00:25:33,570
Okay.

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00:25:33,730 --> 00:25:35,850
So there's a couple of things, you know, you mentioned.

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So Brink, Chaincode, Localhost, 2140, these kind of blockstream, they have more of primarily employment models.

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And a lot of them have in-person offices and additional elements that go to that.

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Then there's the series of organizations that are primarily grant-oriented.

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00:25:58,010 --> 00:25:59,550
So HRF, Spiral.

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I mean, Spiral also has an in-person aspect, but Spiral does a lot of grants, too.

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00:26:04,650 --> 00:26:11,290
uh so hrf opensat's obviously huge um you know so uh btrust is coming onto the scene

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um so so the grants are are more like we give you x amount of money for y amount of time

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00:26:20,390 --> 00:26:27,850
you know one year is fairly standard but some are less some are longer and but one year even one year

347
00:26:27,850 --> 00:26:33,450
which is great it doesn't give you that much security on what you're doing 100 i think that

348
00:26:33,450 --> 00:26:45,210
Our research report gets into this, but I also personally strongly believe that there's a bit of a disincentive and I'm seeing it play out a lot because we're trying to build technologies that last lifetimes.

349
00:26:45,930 --> 00:26:53,510
In order for Bitcoin to succeed, it better be going when I'm no longer on this planet.

350
00:26:53,770 --> 00:26:55,110
That's the Bitcoin I want.

351
00:26:55,350 --> 00:27:00,730
And not just Bitcoin, all these things, whether it's Nostra, whether it's other layers of Bitcoin, etc.

352
00:27:00,730 --> 00:27:08,270
um so so in that context when you look at hey we're going to sponsor one year of work

353
00:27:08,270 --> 00:27:16,830
it's a very narrow amount of time and the people who have done the the most meaningful changes the

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00:27:16,830 --> 00:27:23,010
biggest changes so someone who i respect immensely who is you know just my favorite is aj towns

355
00:27:23,010 --> 00:27:28,930
and he has been contributing in this ecosystem for i don't know higher than i can count

356
00:27:28,930 --> 00:27:39,450
But he, I've gotten the privilege to, you know, witness his expertise, his contributions up close.

357
00:27:39,730 --> 00:27:43,510
And he will incubate research ideas for years.

358
00:27:44,130 --> 00:27:55,610
I kid you not, three, four years before they actually see potentially, you know, there will be three, four years he's been working on something that doesn't actually make it to the GitHub repo.

359
00:27:55,610 --> 00:28:01,390
um and i think that i mean i understand that the position of like giving out grants there has to be

360
00:28:01,390 --> 00:28:06,370
like some evaluation of is this working but i think that giving year-long grants especially

361
00:28:06,370 --> 00:28:12,090
to people who are later in their journeys is a bit of a disincentive and i see for example

362
00:28:12,090 --> 00:28:19,250
research being deprioritized over things that are more tangibly observable such as prs and reviews

363
00:28:19,250 --> 00:28:23,750
yeah that's that's really hard though i like i understand from the people who are giving the

364
00:28:23,750 --> 00:28:29,330
grants out like why that's tricky because you need to see progress but like thinking is progress

365
00:28:29,330 --> 00:28:34,390
and how do you kind of benchmark that and say yeah you're still hitting your goals or like it's a

366
00:28:34,390 --> 00:28:39,690
very tricky thing to try and manage totally totally and yeah it's definitely not an easy challenge

367
00:28:39,690 --> 00:28:48,190
um our our researcher uh in the report made the recommendation of basically doubling the amount of

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time. So if you demonstrate that you did good with a year, then next time two, then if you

369
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demonstrate that you did good with two, next time four, like et cetera, that was the recommendation

370
00:28:58,530 --> 00:29:09,550
there. I also think there's a difference between like deliverables versus code. Just because you're

371
00:29:09,550 --> 00:29:14,830
doing research doesn't mean that that should not have a deliverable, whether it's thoughtful posts

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00:29:14,830 --> 00:29:21,850
on delving or maybe it could be in a GitHub issue or it could be working groups. There are ways to

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involve the community. And if you're working on a long-term research project, it is very important

374
00:29:27,030 --> 00:29:30,870
that you involve people because if you're like, hey, I went in a hole and contributed,

375
00:29:31,350 --> 00:29:36,890
I thought about it for five years and I came out and I have this really cool thing that might work

376
00:29:36,890 --> 00:29:44,390
if your name or your pseudonym is Satoshi. But for 98% of the people, it's like, do you want to be

377
00:29:44,390 --> 00:29:48,590
like just wake up one day and be like okay i need to spend the next six months reviewing something

378
00:29:48,590 --> 00:29:53,330
that someone worked on for five years like that's very overwhelming and not very enticing you know

379
00:29:53,330 --> 00:30:00,910
so collaborating with thoughtful contributors who have domain expertise is is a very important part

380
00:30:00,910 --> 00:30:06,730
of project success and so there's a difference between isolation versus long term you know yeah

381
00:30:06,730 --> 00:30:10,590
that makes sense so so what kind of projects are you working with because this isn't all just core

382
00:30:10,590 --> 00:30:18,330
developers, is it? No, definitely not. I think this past year, Way has supported over 35 open

383
00:30:18,330 --> 00:30:23,730
source projects, which are all in the Bitcoin and friends, like Bitcoin and Noster ecosystem,

384
00:30:24,030 --> 00:30:27,690
which is kind of wild. I definitely can't name them off the top of my head, but

385
00:30:27,690 --> 00:30:31,170
it is shocking. And I think it's really important for people to realize

386
00:30:31,170 --> 00:30:37,750
how many different projects are in this open source permissionless thing. Like even in Bitcoin

387
00:30:37,750 --> 00:30:43,510
itself. There's Bitcoin Core, but even other Bitcoin like implementations, whether it's BDK

388
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:48,410
or Rust Bitcoin. And then you have the whole school of lightning. And then you have additional

389
00:30:48,410 --> 00:30:54,050
projects that might be a bit more, you know, researchy, but also relevant. There are findings.

390
00:30:54,570 --> 00:31:00,030
And then there's Noster and a whole slew of projects over there. So there is a lot. And I

391
00:31:00,030 --> 00:31:06,730
think that's something that I very much want people to hear because I have the good fortune

392
00:31:06,730 --> 00:31:08,530
of getting exposure to these things,

393
00:31:08,670 --> 00:31:09,990
but it's funny.

394
00:31:10,110 --> 00:31:11,590
I feel like in a way,

395
00:31:11,730 --> 00:31:14,330
it's kind of like five-year-olds playing soccer

396
00:31:14,330 --> 00:31:16,930
or football for the international audience.

397
00:31:17,470 --> 00:31:20,170
And everybody's just kind of like running to the ball,

398
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:21,730
the ball being Bitcoin Core.

399
00:31:22,250 --> 00:31:26,770
But in order for Bitcoin or even Bitcoin Core to succeed,

400
00:31:27,330 --> 00:31:29,810
for example, like research layers as well, right?

401
00:31:29,810 --> 00:31:32,010
There's people who have made such meaningful contributions

402
00:31:32,010 --> 00:31:33,210
to the Bitcoin protocol

403
00:31:33,210 --> 00:31:36,190
who have never touched Bitcoin Core code.

404
00:31:36,730 --> 00:31:41,170
Um, and, and yeah, there's mailing list or delving is really, I think a much more thoughtful

405
00:31:41,170 --> 00:31:42,450
discussion place these days.

406
00:31:42,450 --> 00:31:47,110
Um, and yeah, there are so many different ways to contribute.

407
00:31:47,810 --> 00:31:53,850
Uh, and, and so you have to, you have to, if you're interested in understanding the

408
00:31:53,850 --> 00:31:59,270
space, you have to make sure to put some energy into mapping the field, not, not just staring

409
00:31:59,270 --> 00:32:00,770
at the soccer ball.

410
00:32:00,770 --> 00:32:07,630
and if you're interested in doing that I think a good place to look is for example if you go to

411
00:32:08,390 --> 00:32:13,070
Sat Viral's page, HRF's page, OpenSat's page and you see the projects they support

412
00:32:13,070 --> 00:32:19,050
they have these huge lists of projects that they're supporting and I think that's high signal.

413
00:32:19,710 --> 00:32:23,370
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436
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less than 15 minutes and in a few hours I had the dollars in my account. It was really smooth.

437
00:34:03,270 --> 00:34:08,650
So if you need cash but you don't want to sell Bitcoin, head over to ledin.io forward slash WBD

438
00:34:08,650 --> 00:34:14,730
and you'll get 0.25% off your first loan. That's ledin.io forward slash WBD.

439
00:34:15,170 --> 00:34:19,810
So help me understand what you actually do. So if you're a Bitcoin company reached out to you,

440
00:34:19,810 --> 00:34:22,430
they're working on something in, I don't know, eCash, for example.

441
00:34:22,870 --> 00:34:25,590
Like what do you do when you go in and you talk to them?

442
00:34:25,630 --> 00:34:26,990
What does coaching actually look like?

443
00:34:27,130 --> 00:34:29,890
Okay. Yeah. All right. What is way? Great question.

444
00:34:30,550 --> 00:34:34,390
So way is it's executive coaching for freedom tech builders.

445
00:34:35,050 --> 00:34:35,730
What does that mean?

446
00:34:35,890 --> 00:34:38,510
It's executive coaching is a little bit of an umbrella term.

447
00:34:38,870 --> 00:34:43,270
What we're focused on is helping people build things that matter

448
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:45,470
and do it for the long term.

449
00:34:46,110 --> 00:34:47,450
That's the goal.

450
00:34:48,210 --> 00:34:55,190
And this past year, we've run a lot of different experiments and programs and projects, etc.

451
00:34:55,830 --> 00:34:59,990
And what's really gained the most traction is this coaching thing.

452
00:35:00,070 --> 00:35:02,970
And so what we're focusing on is doing it two ways.

453
00:35:03,350 --> 00:35:07,090
One is individual coaching, and the other is group.

454
00:35:07,990 --> 00:35:09,790
So what is coaching?

455
00:35:10,070 --> 00:35:10,730
What does that mean?

456
00:35:10,730 --> 00:35:14,250
We look at the models of the world around.

457
00:35:14,250 --> 00:35:21,770
if you look at anyone who's excellent at what they do, whether it's an athlete or a musician

458
00:35:21,770 --> 00:35:31,390
or, you know, a startup like entrepreneur executive or Oprah, like anybody, they all have a coach.

459
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:37,450
Because when you reach a certain point of excellence, having somebody else focus on,

460
00:35:37,450 --> 00:35:49,160
okay what can get you that last mile so that you can focus on actually doing it is well known Like what athlete that is a superstar doesn have a coach That silly right

461
00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:58,340
And so that's the aspect. It's getting systemic support, having coaches focus on like,

462
00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:03,020
here are shared problems and here are shared solutions so that the individuals can focus

463
00:36:03,020 --> 00:36:08,980
on building the thing that matters. And it all starts with, you know, whether you're doing it

464
00:36:08,980 --> 00:36:14,540
in an individual format, whether you're doing it in a group format, it all starts with identifying

465
00:36:14,540 --> 00:36:21,180
what is the single most thing, single most important thing that matters to you right now.

466
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:29,320
And having support shifting into that long-term mindset is extremely meaningful when we live in a

467
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,440
world. I mean, everyone in open source, there's a hundred million directions pulling you.

468
00:36:33,700 --> 00:36:39,140
And everybody in the modern day has a hundred million directions pulling you. We come out of

469
00:36:39,140 --> 00:36:46,360
hustle culture. And so really spending time to create intentionality of like, hey, this month,

470
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:52,660
this year, what is the dent I want to make that is going to make, whether it's Bitcoin Core,

471
00:36:52,860 --> 00:36:59,100
whether it's my NOSTER project, whether it's a research project, what's the dent that is really

472
00:36:59,100 --> 00:37:06,720
going to improve our collective knowledge or our collective tooling um what's the one i want to

473
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:14,600
focus on and having that clarity already is such a big deal and then the next step is how do i focus

474
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:19,520
on it and and what are the if there's someone who's working on like open source software right

475
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:25,220
now who who wants to use way how do they actually do it do they do they pay for the services this

476
00:37:25,220 --> 00:37:33,180
like how does it work yeah totally um so we've run we've gotten some grants the kind support of

477
00:37:33,180 --> 00:37:41,980
hrf and opensats um and we have run programs that are open to freedom tech builders um we have a

478
00:37:41,980 --> 00:37:49,680
proof of work model um strongly believe that uh like i personally the reason i care a lot about

479
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:55,480
this is kind of what we were talking about, that individual ingenuity and having people put forth

480
00:37:55,480 --> 00:38:01,420
their own ideas. Like, I think that what we need to succeed as a space is a diversity of thought.

481
00:38:02,260 --> 00:38:07,240
You know, I come from being the first female and the gender diversity thing has always been very

482
00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:13,560
in my face. And I'm passionate about that. Also very passionate about geographic diversity.

483
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:19,920
When I started in Bitcoin Core, there were zero contributors from Asia, Africa, and South America.

484
00:38:20,540 --> 00:38:23,000
And so I'm very glad that that's not the case anymore.

485
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,400
But if we're working on a global project, it should be global.

486
00:38:25,620 --> 00:38:26,040
Duh.

487
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:32,820
But really, really what we need is a diversity of perspectives and a diversity of thought.

488
00:38:33,220 --> 00:38:34,200
And that's the hardest thing.

489
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:36,860
That's much harder to measure than what we look like.

490
00:38:37,380 --> 00:38:43,460
But that's the critical thing that I believe leads to the security resilience success of these projects.

491
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:54,120
And so because of that, we've gone with this proof of work model of if you're making contributions that matter, we want to help you do it well and do it for the long term.

492
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:59,500
So our funding source is we're trying to get it more independently.

493
00:39:00,420 --> 00:39:07,900
And, you know, if any donors out there want to contribute to supporting the good people working on open source infrastructure, hit us up.

494
00:39:07,900 --> 00:39:11,940
but that's why I strongly believe

495
00:39:11,940 --> 00:39:14,380
that I don't want to reinforce systemic biases.

496
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:15,340
I want to challenge them.

497
00:39:15,580 --> 00:39:15,760
Yeah.

498
00:39:16,020 --> 00:39:17,140
Can we talk about diversity?

499
00:39:17,460 --> 00:39:18,760
Because like for some reason

500
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:20,780
that's become almost like a dirty word,

501
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,000
especially when Bitcoin is.

502
00:39:22,380 --> 00:39:23,700
Dangerous to use on a pod.

503
00:39:23,700 --> 00:39:26,300
But like everything you say makes sense.

504
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:27,640
Like it's a global project

505
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:29,940
that should absolutely be contributors from Asia,

506
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:30,920
from South America, from Africa,

507
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:31,840
from all over the world.

508
00:39:31,940 --> 00:39:33,360
Like that's just obvious to me.

509
00:39:33,660 --> 00:39:34,980
But why do you think it's become

510
00:39:34,980 --> 00:39:36,980
such a sort of hot button topic?

511
00:39:36,980 --> 00:39:45,440
Especially, I don't want to get into the whole Notts Core stuff, but the Notts side of that, I've been really pushing the problem with diversity in Core and things like this.

512
00:39:46,380 --> 00:39:57,560
You know, I can't really comment on speaking to that perspective. I'm not very familiar with it. I'm hardly on Twitter, things like that.

513
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:06,060
But I can talk to you about my work at the protocol level in Bitcoin Core, and I think that contextualizes the way I approach it.

514
00:40:06,060 --> 00:40:27,300
So I worked a lot on security, right? And one of those aspects is in an adversarial environment, you can only connect to a certain amount of peers. Because if I connected to everyone, that would require so much resource that you no longer could run Bitcoin on a Raspberry Pi, or you'd have to have a supercomputer, maybe that cost is prohibitive, right?

515
00:40:27,300 --> 00:40:30,760
So limited amount of slots, adversarial environment.

516
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:31,960
You need to choose.

517
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,840
We make eight full relay outbound connections by default,

518
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,200
two additional block relay only, so 10.

519
00:40:39,420 --> 00:40:42,860
You have 10 slots from this entire world of Bitcoin nodes.

520
00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:46,320
And how you choose is very important.

521
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:48,040
If you choose wrong,

522
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,180
you could actually not be connected to the main network.

523
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,240
You could actually be eclipsed and connected to one entity

524
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:57,140
that you perceive as 10 different entities.

525
00:40:57,300 --> 00:41:03,760
So very big risk, right? Or very big consequence, I should say. And you want to mitigate the risk

526
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:09,660
because the consequence is so high. How do you mitigate the risk? You know very little about

527
00:41:09,660 --> 00:41:18,520
your peers. What we do from a purely technical point of view is we try to get as much diversity

528
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:25,020
as possible along as many different indices as possible. So we take every piece of information

529
00:41:25,020 --> 00:41:31,600
we can get. We look at, you know, IP address range. We look at what network are you on?

530
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:39,380
When was the last ping time, response time? What kinds of information are you advertising or not?

531
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:46,360
We get our hands on any piece of information possible and then try to maximize diversity

532
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:52,000
or variability, whatever you want to call it, along each one of these. And this is the strategy

533
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:57,720
for security. This is the strategy for privacy. Because you don't want to be connected to 10 nodes

534
00:41:57,720 --> 00:42:05,980
in one server room. If you are, that is an eclipse. That is a risk of, and it could be an eclipse

535
00:42:05,980 --> 00:42:12,280
attack if it's more intentional and targeted. If we do that at the network level, you could have a

536
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:18,640
partition risk, which would be game over. If we had two separate Bitcoin networks, I mean, I really

537
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:25,240
think that would be game over. So that's what we look at is we try to maximize variability.

538
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:32,920
And so, yeah, okay, this word diversity comes very loaded, but I come from the background of

539
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:39,800
having a very technical view on it. And genuinely, if you go to the GitHub repo of Bitcoin Core right

540
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:46,620
now and you type in diversity, you'll see a bunch of PRs that are probably mostly in the P2P layer

541
00:42:46,620 --> 00:42:48,940
that have diversity and security,

542
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:50,260
like probably in the title,

543
00:42:50,540 --> 00:42:51,660
a couple of which are mine,

544
00:42:51,740 --> 00:42:53,520
but like others too, I'm pretty sure.

545
00:42:53,620 --> 00:42:54,780
I mean, I haven't checked this.

546
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:56,140
I'm just kind of guessing,

547
00:42:56,260 --> 00:42:57,240
but I feel fairly confident

548
00:42:57,240 --> 00:42:58,440
claiming something like this.

549
00:42:59,100 --> 00:43:02,020
So I think that it's,

550
00:43:02,660 --> 00:43:03,540
I mean, and you know,

551
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,380
any good thing can be hijacked.

552
00:43:07,260 --> 00:43:09,020
Any well-intentioned thing

553
00:43:09,020 --> 00:43:12,780
can be transformed into something else.

554
00:43:12,780 --> 00:43:13,840
And so I think if you're like,

555
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:14,800
we must have diversity

556
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,340
and what that means is quota

557
00:43:16,340 --> 00:43:24,680
like that can lead to undesirable consequences um so how i look at it i mean you know going back

558
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:31,900
to like what way does and looking at the individual um layer and and and this relates to my own

559
00:43:31,900 --> 00:43:41,120
journey what i saw is that a lot of times we we have we see these experiences where

560
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:45,740
Okay, let me talk about an individual, someone I respect very much.

561
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:47,080
Her name is Stratosphere.

562
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,860
She's a Bitcoin Core contributor in South Asia.

563
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,080
And she came onto the project through Summer of Bitcoin

564
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:58,460
and contributed straight out the gate to Bit324.

565
00:43:58,840 --> 00:43:59,820
Super cool project, right?

566
00:43:59,820 --> 00:44:00,420
What was 324?

567
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:02,180
Ah, end-to-end encryption.

568
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:02,640
Okay.

569
00:44:02,820 --> 00:44:05,860
So awesome for security, privacy,

570
00:44:06,460 --> 00:44:09,740
something that really moved the needle in the Bitcoin protocol.

571
00:44:09,740 --> 00:44:18,480
and so she demonstrated incredible in like just talent passion you know ability to execute

572
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:25,380
but after after that project she was sponsored to work on bitcoin in full time and after there was

573
00:44:25,380 --> 00:44:31,240
really a lull in productivity if you looked at it externally you could wonder what is she doing

574
00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:36,820
she's not doing anything you don't see any work products but if you zoomed in and looked closely

575
00:44:36,820 --> 00:44:44,060
she was showing up every day. She was engaging very deeply and technically, working really hard.

576
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:49,640
But the problem was that she would review a PR and she would have these amazing notes

577
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:55,720
in a different place. Those notes weren't translating into leaving the review comment.

578
00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:03,180
So why was she doing it that way? Right. So first was she didn't realize she was doing that.

579
00:45:03,180 --> 00:45:06,400
You know, it was just kind of the, oh, I'll review the PR.

580
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:07,140
Oh, yeah, yeah.

581
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:08,060
I mean, I'll get to that.

582
00:45:08,100 --> 00:45:12,060
But then the next PR caught her attention and she was doing the deep work.

583
00:45:12,540 --> 00:45:16,000
And so she was one of my first coachees.

584
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,620
I think it was before I used the word coaching.

585
00:45:19,180 --> 00:45:23,340
You know, and I saw it wasn't technical mentorship that she needed.

586
00:45:23,420 --> 00:45:26,160
She was already incredibly badass problem solver.

587
00:45:26,620 --> 00:45:28,040
It wasn't some technical tool.

588
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:35,120
what she needed was a mirror held up to help her realize that she wasn't hitting the green button

589
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:41,660
and leaving the review comments and when it was you know there was a very specific period of time

590
00:45:41,660 --> 00:45:47,880
that we were working together and in this role of what I now call coach I held up that mirror

591
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:55,920
it showed her like hey dude you're you're not actually doing that last step which you know is

592
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:02,900
less work yeah she was just like oh my goodness and once she saw that she couldn't unsee it

593
00:46:02,900 --> 00:46:10,240
and and and broke that pattern and so why why is she doing that i mean i can comment at a higher

594
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:16,180
level of i've seen that not just with her but with myself and i've seen that with many other women

595
00:46:16,180 --> 00:46:24,960
and for some reason women have this tendency to to overthink um before like it's not oh my god

596
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,040
you're not doing the hard work. It's not, oh my God, you don't have the technical engagement.

597
00:46:28,460 --> 00:46:35,420
It's this level of hindrance before you post the review comment. And that is a critical difference.

598
00:46:36,140 --> 00:46:40,620
You know, and I've seen other trends too. Working, I've seen this huge trend with Africans

599
00:46:40,620 --> 00:46:49,600
where they will not submit the funding application. Like, and you go, why? And I think that the person

600
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:55,420
or the lens that could best answer why would be some historian or something like that who could

601
00:46:55,420 --> 00:47:02,760
talk about colonialism and the entrenched systems that still run the world and how that shows up in

602
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:09,520
individuals and how that translates into individual Africans feeling intimidated to ask for funding.

603
00:47:09,700 --> 00:47:13,200
And it's not like they're sitting there like, no, I'm not going to ask. They're like, oh, I'm just

604
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,800
going to do a little bit more proof of work. Oh, once I have a bit more in my repertoire, then I'll

605
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:22,720
be in a good position to ask like they don't realize that hey it's been six months and no

606
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:27,440
one's paying you and you've done amazing work until someone helps them realize I saw you do

607
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,920
your talk at the Africa Bitcoin conference and you asked the question who here is nervous about

608
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:37,560
like asking for money and every single hand went up so like clearly that's a real problem yeah and

609
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:45,260
I wonder if that's just down to like valuing their their own work yeah I mean it's hard for me to

610
00:47:45,260 --> 00:47:51,580
comment on those aren't my areas of expertise of like really why it happens but i see that there

611
00:47:51,580 --> 00:47:58,060
are these trends and there are certain patterns that hit certain groups of people harder and i

612
00:47:58,060 --> 00:48:02,620
can comment a bit easier just anecdotally on what i've seen with women and what i've seen with

613
00:48:02,620 --> 00:48:08,100
africans but this is true for everybody we all have the things we're good at and the things we're

614
00:48:08,100 --> 00:48:14,080
hard like that are harder for us and that's why that that coach can really help you see the thing

615
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,680
that is actually a small amount of effort,

616
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,200
but a huge amount of gains.

617
00:48:18,380 --> 00:48:19,080
I need a coach.

618
00:48:20,060 --> 00:48:21,160
We all do.

619
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:22,140
One sec, sorry.

620
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,020
I'm just seeing how we're getting on for time

621
00:48:24,020 --> 00:48:25,660
because I know Alex wants us to start at 9.30,

622
00:48:25,780 --> 00:48:26,400
but we're doing good.

623
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:27,640
No, start at 10.

624
00:48:28,060 --> 00:48:28,700
Oh, okay, cool.

625
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:29,160
We're great.

626
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:29,500
Okay.

627
00:48:29,980 --> 00:48:32,040
So, yeah, I think we all need a coach.

628
00:48:32,420 --> 00:48:33,540
And yeah, I mean,

629
00:48:33,620 --> 00:48:36,560
so do you want to get into some of the mental models

630
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,140
that have been really cool and takeaways?

631
00:48:39,140 --> 00:48:40,640
Can we go on a different tangent first?

632
00:48:40,700 --> 00:48:41,120
Sure, sure.

633
00:48:41,300 --> 00:48:42,480
Because when we've been speaking

634
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:43,400
over the last couple of months,

635
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,600
you were telling me that you've gone down a kind of neuroscience rabbit hole.

636
00:48:48,060 --> 00:48:49,300
Oh, great. That's the same thing.

637
00:48:49,380 --> 00:48:52,220
Okay, perfect. So what's the rabbit hole? What have you gone down?

638
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:56,160
Oh my God, so many. All right.

639
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,200
And why did it start? Like what made you sort of start looking into this?

640
00:48:59,660 --> 00:49:02,480
Oh, personally, neuroscience is just very fascinating to me.

641
00:49:02,860 --> 00:49:09,200
I have this naive, optimistic lens that it's the source code of like how we work,

642
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:14,960
of what is a good life, you know, and I have a very technical nerdy brain. And so neuroscience,

643
00:49:15,180 --> 00:49:25,060
I'm like, does it hold all the answers? Um, does it? I mean, I'm hoping, um, but yeah, so,

644
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:30,000
so I've learned a lot about neuroscience. Um, and obviously I'm not a neuroscientist. So anything I

645
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:35,280
share comes with that strong disclaimer, but with way we do have a neuroscientist that we work with.

646
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:41,100
And so my claims have been reviewed by someone who does, you know, has had real world experience.

647
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:53,920
And I think how I'd like to approach this is talking through one example of applying to ourselves, like, how to work on something that matters.

648
00:49:54,440 --> 00:50:03,520
So I want to share something that came up from a OS reboot, which is our group coaching protocol that happened this year.

649
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:08,140
and then work through, I mean, you got a little glimpse of the 10x framework,

650
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,900
and then talk about the neuroscience of that as well.

651
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:13,000
So kind of like do the full stack.

652
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:13,560
How's that sound?

653
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:15,140
Okay, cool.

654
00:50:15,860 --> 00:50:20,040
So earlier this year, Wei ran a OS reboot, as I mentioned,

655
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,960
group coaching protocol for a group of Nostra devs.

656
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,400
The lead facilitator of that was Noemi Boyer,

657
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:32,600
who is the CEO of Democracy Labs here in Costa Rica.

658
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:40,060
extraordinary human being. We are so lucky that she has shared her knowledge, her passion,

659
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:47,760
her expertise with us. And what she came in with was very, you know, out the gate, very strong,

660
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:56,200
was this idea that 10x is easier than 2x. This is based on a book by someone whose name I don't

661
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:03,860
remember, but the mental model is really interesting. So our natural mode, passionate

662
00:51:03,860 --> 00:51:10,760
people trying to help the world do something better, is to find those 2x improvements. How can

663
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:18,520
I be more effective? How can I achieve these goals quicker or better? Whatever, right? 2x

664
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:25,800
linear thinking, that's very natural to us. And the metaphor for that is building a faster

665
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:30,520
airplane. We already have an airplane. It's taking people where they got to go. We want to make it

666
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:36,880
faster. How do we do that? Let's innovate. Let's experiment. Let's build, make a faster airplane.

667
00:51:38,100 --> 00:51:45,200
The idea of switching into a 10x mindset requires stepping back, which is a very uncomfortable

668
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:51,620
process. And one of the key reasons having external support is valuable. Stepping back and going,

669
00:51:51,620 --> 00:52:01,240
what does it mean to switch into a 10x mindset? What does it mean to achieve things at a completely

670
00:52:01,240 --> 00:52:08,520
different rate, different level of impact? And the metaphor here is stepping back and saying,

671
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:15,000
I don't need a faster airplane. I need a rocket ship. And the concept is that

672
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:24,680
having a 10x mindset is actually easier than having a 2x mindset because good luck making

673
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:29,580
a plane go as fast as a rocket this isn't like iterating it's completely rebuilding yes it's

674
00:52:29,580 --> 00:52:37,500
exponential rather than linear thinking so i'm gonna give the example of um pablo f7z i think

675
00:52:37,500 --> 00:52:44,720
he goes by on the internet um do you know him he's like the nostrdev nostrdev another extraordinary

676
00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:47,080
He builds like one project and Nostra every week or something.

677
00:52:47,380 --> 00:52:48,260
Right, exactly.

678
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:49,340
Yes, that's great.

679
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:59,760
Also is on Waze board, but also participated as a dev in this reboot that Noemi was the lead facilitator in.

680
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:06,080
And got exposed to this 10x mindset, you know, this concept.

681
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:14,640
and he set a 10x goal to you know he was his context was that he was at the computer screen

682
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:20,240
all of the time you know he uh was saying that sometimes he would tell his family he's asleep

683
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:24,700
but then actually be working because there's too much to do you know like are you kidding me have

684
00:53:24,700 --> 00:53:39,230
you seen the world we in there way too much to do how can you turn off the computer let alone your brain which is something that i think many of us share this experience of you know And so he was probably sleeping four hours a night just like oh my God got to go

685
00:53:40,210 --> 00:53:45,190
And, oh, which quick tidbit, our research finding had a kind of disturbing finding that

686
00:53:45,190 --> 00:53:53,170
as seniority increased of contributors in the ecosystem, the sustainability decreased.

687
00:53:53,930 --> 00:53:55,310
Because they're not sleeping.

688
00:53:55,470 --> 00:53:57,250
They're not paying any attention to their own health.

689
00:53:57,250 --> 00:53:58,210
Oh my God.

690
00:53:58,290 --> 00:53:58,890
Yeah, exactly.

691
00:53:58,990 --> 00:54:05,270
which like oh boy that was came out of like an academic research you know interview anyway that's

692
00:54:05,270 --> 00:54:08,430
a really weird thing though because it's so obvious that you need sleep to be productive

693
00:54:08,430 --> 00:54:12,610
but it's so easy to fall into the trap of being like i've got too much to do i'm going to sacrifice

694
00:54:12,610 --> 00:54:20,350
sleep 100 100 so pablo one of the many who's found himself in this situation making amazing

695
00:54:20,350 --> 00:54:26,590
things that people are using right leading a lot of expanding our communal minds as to what is

696
00:54:26,590 --> 00:54:37,010
possible, but his 10x goal was to spend four hours a day in front of a computer while having

697
00:54:37,010 --> 00:54:44,770
stronger day-over-day productivity, stronger day-over-day impact than before. That was his

698
00:54:44,770 --> 00:54:54,890
10x goal. And he is well on his way to achieving it. So how he has done this is he's built this

699
00:54:54,890 --> 00:55:02,710
incredible AI tooling, which is a series of autonomous agents that are essentially working

700
00:55:02,710 --> 00:55:09,490
as a team. You hire somebody who's the project manager, you hire somebody who's the designer,

701
00:55:09,710 --> 00:55:14,070
you hire different devs who have different approaches, and this one's going to focus on

702
00:55:14,070 --> 00:55:20,570
fuzz testing and that one, whatever. And so they are all interacting with each other to challenge

703
00:55:20,570 --> 00:55:27,170
each other to iterate. And there's touch points of human interaction. I think he also has trained

704
00:55:27,170 --> 00:55:34,030
different AIs to model his own mind. And he actually called this project 10X after this

705
00:55:34,030 --> 00:55:46,290
mental framing, which is mind-blowing. And yeah, I love this story because he's living a richer life

706
00:55:46,290 --> 00:55:48,230
while achieving more.

707
00:55:48,630 --> 00:55:51,350
And I really believe that when you're aligned,

708
00:55:51,870 --> 00:55:53,310
when you're internally aligned

709
00:55:53,310 --> 00:55:55,650
and you bring that into the external world,

710
00:55:55,910 --> 00:55:57,930
that's where real impact occurs.

711
00:55:58,390 --> 00:56:00,190
So the idea of spending four hours at your computer

712
00:56:00,190 --> 00:56:03,330
instead of 10 or whatever he was doing is that you spend-

713
00:56:03,330 --> 00:56:04,970
10, I think that's an underestimation,

714
00:56:05,170 --> 00:56:06,070
but we don't know.

715
00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:08,810
But is that you're spending the hours

716
00:56:08,810 --> 00:56:10,130
when you're in the right state of mind

717
00:56:10,130 --> 00:56:12,570
to actually do work rather than just sitting there

718
00:56:12,570 --> 00:56:14,690
because you feel like you need to be sitting there.

719
00:56:14,690 --> 00:56:42,490
Yeah, I mean, you know, in order to really dive into his experience, we would need to summon him. But I think there's one element of we all find ourselves. Okay, so flow state, the research shows high achievers across all fields of study, whether it's physical domains or more intellectuals, whether it's, you know, musicians or mathematicians or athlete, etc.

720
00:56:42,490 --> 00:56:53,990
But flow state, high performers, top less than 1% of their fields, do not achieve more than three to four hours of flow state per day.

721
00:56:54,850 --> 00:57:01,310
Which contextualized that to what we as knowledge workers think we're supposed to be spending in front of a computer.

722
00:57:02,430 --> 00:57:07,870
And I know that when I started measuring my focus time, I was so embarrassed.

723
00:57:07,870 --> 00:57:10,190
I didn't know this fact about three to four hours.

724
00:57:10,190 --> 00:57:15,950
and I was so embarrassed that I was like working between two to four hours a day.

725
00:57:16,270 --> 00:57:20,970
And I, at the time I was like, I am never going to tell anybody about this.

726
00:57:21,010 --> 00:57:25,990
Like, oh my God, they're going to think that my imposter syndrome isn't a syndrome.

727
00:57:25,990 --> 00:57:27,570
It's real. I am an imposter.

728
00:57:27,730 --> 00:57:29,990
Like that was what was going through my mind, you know?

729
00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:33,310
But I feel like so like I'm the exact same.

730
00:57:33,450 --> 00:57:36,030
Like there's no way that I can be productive for eight hours a day.

731
00:57:36,210 --> 00:57:38,830
Like my, I think I've got a bit of ADHD as well, which doesn't help.

732
00:57:38,830 --> 00:57:43,430
but like there's times where I'll sit down in front of my computers to do work and I'll start

733
00:57:43,430 --> 00:57:47,090
doing something. I'm just like, I can't do it now. Like I'm just not in the right state of mind.

734
00:57:47,150 --> 00:57:50,650
I'll have to go and like sit and read and have a coffee or whatever, come back. And then you can,

735
00:57:50,730 --> 00:57:54,910
then like, sometimes you'll sit down and it's just like, you're on. Totally. And I don't know,

736
00:57:54,970 --> 00:57:59,550
the thing that I don't know is how you know you're in the right state of mind when you're going to do

737
00:57:59,550 --> 00:58:04,690
some work. Totally. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that the research around flow state is very relevant

738
00:58:04,690 --> 00:58:09,710
here. And there's a couple of different attributes of like, how do you know if you're in flow? And

739
00:58:09,710 --> 00:58:14,090
there's also how do you set yourself up for it? And so things of like, how do you know you're in

740
00:58:14,090 --> 00:58:18,190
flow are things that are probably relatable, like everybody's experienced it somewhere,

741
00:58:18,670 --> 00:58:23,990
which is like total absorption in the activity at hand. It's intrinsically rewarding. You're

742
00:58:23,990 --> 00:58:28,470
kind of having a good time, but you're also convinced that there is these feedback loops

743
00:58:28,470 --> 00:58:34,530
of like, I'm getting somewhere. There's a dilation of time. Like you have a loss of sense

744
00:58:34,530 --> 00:58:36,370
of how does time work right now.

745
00:58:36,430 --> 00:58:37,950
So those are indicators that you're in flow.

746
00:58:38,170 --> 00:58:39,530
And I know them when it's happening,

747
00:58:39,750 --> 00:58:42,050
but it's when I'm like, if I'm not on my computer,

748
00:58:42,250 --> 00:58:45,110
it's like, I don't know whether to be like,

749
00:58:45,190 --> 00:58:46,270
right, now's the time.

750
00:58:46,370 --> 00:58:47,390
You're in a really good state of mind.

751
00:58:47,490 --> 00:58:48,310
Go and do some work.

752
00:58:48,450 --> 00:58:48,670
Totally.

753
00:58:48,770 --> 00:58:50,770
So how do you set yourself up for success, right?

754
00:58:51,470 --> 00:58:54,650
And this, like, based on my understanding of the research,

755
00:58:54,750 --> 00:58:56,030
you know, there's a couple of different things.

756
00:58:56,090 --> 00:58:57,790
Like one is strong intent.

757
00:58:58,430 --> 00:59:00,550
Before you enter the block of time,

758
00:59:00,550 --> 00:59:03,090
you should know exactly what you're working on

759
00:59:03,090 --> 00:59:08,590
and what you're working on is also like feeds into how do you know if you're making progress on it

760
00:59:08,590 --> 00:59:15,350
so that should be identified before you enter the work block that's one another one is removing

761
00:59:15,350 --> 00:59:21,710
distractions flow state is really interesting it's actually in the research it's called

762
00:59:21,710 --> 00:59:29,070
exploitation mode I think that's the neuroscience lens of the way it interacts with like your

763
00:59:29,070 --> 00:59:34,410
hormones and chemicals and neurotransmitters and things like that. It's called exploitation mode.

764
00:59:34,990 --> 00:59:42,110
It is not meant to be sustained for extended periods of time. So this is the critical piece

765
00:59:42,110 --> 00:59:45,690
that I think we're all missing. Those other ones, like know what you're doing, remove your

766
00:59:45,690 --> 00:59:49,430
distractions. Like, okay, like we kind of know whether or not we're doing it, we know.

767
00:59:49,910 --> 00:59:56,790
The one that I find most interesting and most difficult is to recover effectively.

768
00:59:56,790 --> 01:00:14,850
And what does that mean? It means some tangible things like to re-up your glucose stores, you need to eat food. Hydration is really relevant, like those kinds of things. But the critical piece that is central to motivation is dopamine.

769
01:00:14,850 --> 01:00:18,110
and for those of us who have ADHD,

770
01:00:18,550 --> 01:00:21,550
which I strongly believe is overrepresented in our space,

771
01:00:22,690 --> 01:00:25,410
but dopamine is relevant to everybody.

772
01:00:26,210 --> 01:00:31,330
And in order to replenish your dopamine stores,

773
01:00:31,630 --> 01:00:33,330
you need to let up on yourself.

774
01:00:34,050 --> 01:00:35,990
The metaphor I like is like,

775
01:00:36,050 --> 01:00:39,970
you can't refill gas while your car is still going.

776
01:00:40,870 --> 01:00:43,130
And this is an oversimplification,

777
01:00:43,130 --> 01:00:49,250
but the best, but it's relevant as a mental model to think of dopamine as a limited supply

778
01:00:49,250 --> 01:00:53,950
because it's kind of like rate limited. And if that, if you have too much or too little,

779
01:00:53,990 --> 01:01:00,130
it's actually like psychosis or schizophrenia or, you know, it's good that it's rate limited.

780
01:01:01,410 --> 01:01:08,030
So, so thinking of it as a fixed supply. And so flow state feels good, right? I'm productive.

781
01:01:08,030 --> 01:01:13,290
I'm having a good time. I'm focused. Right. And so it's very natural to have that addictive

782
01:01:13,290 --> 01:01:18,770
quality of it. I'm in it. Let me just keep going. I don't know when it'll come back. Like,

783
01:01:18,830 --> 01:01:23,930
let me get every drop of it that I can get. This is really natural. This, do you, do you relate to

784
01:01:23,930 --> 01:01:30,790
that experience? I mean, yeah, me too. Right. So, so truly though, if you want to encourage more

785
01:01:30,790 --> 01:01:38,770
flow state in your life, ending it well, saying I'm done now. And, and not, I have nothing left

786
01:01:38,770 --> 01:01:46,410
in me, but like, I've done a good amount. I'm going to stop there. I'm going to feel good. And,

787
01:01:46,490 --> 01:01:51,850
and for some people, there's so much guilt driven development in this space, uh, not just with

788
01:01:51,850 --> 01:01:57,510
developers, but like with everybody in this ecosystem that, um, some I've gotten the feedback

789
01:01:57,510 --> 01:01:59,350
that like feeling good about yourself,

790
01:01:59,350 --> 01:02:00,150
like that's impossible.

791
01:02:00,150 --> 01:02:00,930
So I was like, okay,

792
01:02:01,230 --> 01:02:04,170
what if we just acknowledge that progress was made?

793
01:02:04,310 --> 01:02:06,510
They're like, okay, that maybe I could do that.

794
01:02:06,650 --> 01:02:09,590
But like closing it, saying I've made progress,

795
01:02:09,970 --> 01:02:12,250
saying, wow, I'm happy with that progress

796
01:02:12,250 --> 01:02:13,150
if that's possible.

797
01:02:13,550 --> 01:02:15,470
And stopping and saying,

798
01:02:15,550 --> 01:02:17,250
I'm not gonna continue right now.

799
01:02:17,290 --> 01:02:18,370
I'm gonna come back later.

800
01:02:19,410 --> 01:02:21,730
That's really the way that you can let up

801
01:02:21,730 --> 01:02:24,750
on trying to squeeze every drop of dopamine out

802
01:02:24,750 --> 01:02:28,810
and giving yourself that mental rest

803
01:02:28,810 --> 01:02:31,050
is going to help you regenerate

804
01:02:31,050 --> 01:02:32,490
not just dopamine,

805
01:02:32,630 --> 01:02:33,870
but also norepinephrine

806
01:02:33,870 --> 01:02:36,050
and other neurotransmitters

807
01:02:36,050 --> 01:02:37,770
that are necessary to that process

808
01:02:37,770 --> 01:02:39,910
to help bring more flow state

809
01:02:39,910 --> 01:02:41,390
into your future life.

810
01:02:41,730 --> 01:02:42,590
I also think we need-

811
01:02:42,590 --> 01:02:43,870
Also exercise and hang out with people.

812
01:02:44,630 --> 01:02:47,150
Well, so I'm pretty good at exercising.

813
01:02:47,370 --> 01:02:50,110
And the thing that I think we need to normalize

814
01:02:50,110 --> 01:02:50,870
is having a nap.

815
01:02:51,370 --> 01:02:52,970
Like a 20 minute nap in the afternoon

816
01:02:52,970 --> 01:02:54,430
honestly makes me so much more productive.

817
01:02:54,430 --> 01:02:57,030
There must be a reason Google put like sleep pods in their offices.

818
01:02:57,270 --> 01:02:58,930
Like there must be some science behind that.

819
01:02:59,150 --> 01:03:00,830
But you can, I cannot do 20 minute naps.

820
01:03:00,930 --> 01:03:02,830
I'm just out for like two hours and I'm like, oh.

821
01:03:03,130 --> 01:03:04,950
Oh, see, if I sleep two hours, I'm dead.

822
01:03:05,330 --> 01:03:06,930
No, that's what happens to me if I try.

823
01:03:07,030 --> 01:03:08,250
You just got to set an alarm, Amiti.

824
01:03:08,490 --> 01:03:08,950
Come on.

825
01:03:09,570 --> 01:03:10,570
You don't think I try that?

826
01:03:11,550 --> 01:03:15,390
But the thing that I found, again, I think this is because I've got ADHD,

827
01:03:15,990 --> 01:03:19,270
is I have like an office at home where I do all the podcasts from.

828
01:03:19,630 --> 01:03:20,450
Works great for the podcast.

829
01:03:20,590 --> 01:03:21,630
I cannot work in there.

830
01:03:21,910 --> 01:03:24,010
And I think it's because there's like multiple screens.

831
01:03:24,010 --> 01:03:27,310
I need to be like on just a single laptop so I can't get distracted.

832
01:03:27,590 --> 01:03:31,090
And I like to go out and like work at a coffee shop or something where there's other people around.

833
01:03:31,310 --> 01:03:34,890
Even if I'm not talking to them, I just don't like being completely isolated on my own.

834
01:03:35,130 --> 01:03:37,250
Totally. Totally. I mean, I love it.

835
01:03:37,450 --> 01:03:40,090
I think you know what works for you.

836
01:03:40,490 --> 01:03:41,850
And that's what's really important.

837
01:03:42,370 --> 01:03:45,530
And each of us finding like what our own cadence is.

838
01:03:45,690 --> 01:03:49,530
And then also the fun thing is what works for us changes over time.

839
01:03:49,530 --> 01:03:56,510
and which goes back into why it's so helpful to have some additional support for like coaches and

840
01:03:56,510 --> 01:04:01,770
and people who are are learning the research so you don't have to I mean that's part of it my

841
01:04:01,770 --> 01:04:07,350
journey it's like the way I have fallen into nerding out about all of this was as an independent

842
01:04:07,350 --> 01:04:12,270
worker working in my room alone caring deeply about these projects wanting to be more effective

843
01:04:12,270 --> 01:04:18,590
I was like oh how do I be effective and then I took on an entire other job of like researching

844
01:04:18,590 --> 01:04:23,310
learning, thinking, project managing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And part of building ways,

845
01:04:23,490 --> 01:04:29,110
like, like, if you just want to do your job really well, and your job is building these freedom

846
01:04:29,110 --> 01:04:33,690
technologies, working in a permissionless ecosystem, and stewarding our decentralized

847
01:04:33,690 --> 01:04:39,050
future, I want you to have the support to do that. So going back to kind of ecosystem vision,

848
01:04:39,810 --> 01:04:48,230
and grant, like the role of grantors and grants in it. So we have some shops that are like,

849
01:04:48,230 --> 01:04:54,550
like, you know, more like full-time employment. But I also see this decentralized vision of the

850
01:04:54,550 --> 01:05:01,730
future. And if you look at funders like HRF, OpenSats, et cetera, as verticals in that space,

851
01:05:01,870 --> 01:05:07,830
you have as an individual, this amazing opportunity where the work you're doing is

852
01:05:07,830 --> 01:05:12,790
unentangled from the people who are offering financial sustainability. At a normal job,

853
01:05:13,070 --> 01:05:16,310
if the people don't want to pay you to do it, you still, you can't continue doing the work.

854
01:05:16,310 --> 01:05:17,710
You know, your access is removed.

855
01:05:17,990 --> 01:05:19,390
But in open source, it's different.

856
01:05:19,570 --> 01:05:21,730
And in decentralized development, it's very different.

857
01:05:22,430 --> 01:05:27,570
And so you might, you know, maybe one of those orgs is not aligned with the way you're approaching things.

858
01:05:27,650 --> 01:05:28,530
You have other options.

859
01:05:28,810 --> 01:05:29,630
And that's really cool.

860
01:05:29,710 --> 01:05:34,530
You can mix and match according to what suits you and what aligns with your point of view.

861
01:05:35,210 --> 01:05:42,550
And so if we look at those as verticals, the world I want to see, my vision of our decentralized supported future,

862
01:05:42,870 --> 01:05:45,390
is that we have a lot more horizontals.

863
01:05:45,390 --> 01:05:52,430
And these horizontals are things that would be comparable to stuff you find at a company, especially if done well.

864
01:05:52,970 --> 01:06:00,310
You know, like having an engineering manager that's a good manager is amazing for helping you grow the size of project you're able to take on.

865
01:06:00,910 --> 01:06:06,030
Or having, you know, off-sites are wonderful for reminding yourself that you're human, you know.

866
01:06:06,410 --> 01:06:08,230
And so having more horizontals.

867
01:06:08,230 --> 01:06:14,790
And an example of this horizontal that has existed is the Legal Defense Fund.

868
01:06:15,390 --> 01:06:17,190
You know, and they had a proof of work model.

869
01:06:17,190 --> 01:06:24,410
If you've done meaningful contributions and you're under threat because of this legal concern, then we're here to support you.

870
01:06:25,210 --> 01:06:27,290
And way is another horizontal.

871
01:06:27,910 --> 01:06:37,690
It's executive coaching of if you've done things that matter, we believe in you and want to help you do it for the long term effectively.

872
01:06:38,450 --> 01:06:43,990
And so based on this proof of work that you have, you get access to executive coaching.

873
01:06:43,990 --> 01:06:45,750
and that's another horizontal.

874
01:06:45,930 --> 01:06:47,490
And I want to see many, many more.

875
01:06:47,590 --> 01:06:49,570
I think there's additional legal support

876
01:06:49,570 --> 01:06:51,750
that people in our ecosystem could really use.

877
01:06:52,130 --> 01:06:53,570
There's additional mental health.

878
01:06:53,810 --> 01:06:55,810
Like, I mean, so many people really want

879
01:06:55,810 --> 01:06:57,790
actual proper mental health support

880
01:06:57,790 --> 01:07:00,250
and Way is not that,

881
01:07:00,630 --> 01:07:02,330
but I would love to see people do it.

882
01:07:02,330 --> 01:07:04,490
I would love to see people do something

883
01:07:04,490 --> 01:07:06,470
that directly competes with Way.

884
01:07:06,570 --> 01:07:08,230
I think that's a sign of success

885
01:07:08,230 --> 01:07:10,150
because we're in a decentralized ecosystem,

886
01:07:10,690 --> 01:07:12,170
not in a, you know,

887
01:07:12,170 --> 01:07:14,870
I want to run a company and have the market share.

888
01:07:15,010 --> 01:07:16,310
No, we should have alternatives.

889
01:07:16,530 --> 01:07:19,730
If somebody doesn't align with Way's approach, they should have alternatives.

890
01:07:20,450 --> 01:07:25,930
And this is really critical because as individual contributors who are working in unaffiliated

891
01:07:25,930 --> 01:07:32,270
ways, that individual human ingenuity is what I see for a robust, resilient, long-term

892
01:07:32,270 --> 01:07:32,790
ecosystem.

893
01:07:33,650 --> 01:07:39,850
And financial sustainability is a very critical aspect, but there's so much more to sustainability

894
01:07:39,850 --> 01:07:41,470
than just financial.

895
01:07:41,470 --> 01:07:48,130
and so having that kind of multi-dimensional support and and that's the world i i want to

896
01:07:48,130 --> 01:07:51,930
live in and that's the world where i think it loops back to what you're saying because

897
01:07:51,930 --> 01:07:57,350
you figured out things about the way you work like me at this point in time it's hard to imagine me

898
01:07:57,350 --> 01:08:01,590
going back to an office because i work terribly in coffee shops i listen to everything everywhere

899
01:08:01,590 --> 01:08:06,590
i'm like a little puppy you know see i work terribly in silence exactly and so a bit of

900
01:08:06,590 --> 01:08:10,390
background noise helps me zone out that's just like my white noise to work in and i can't have

901
01:08:10,390 --> 01:08:13,610
headphones and listening to something that distracts me but if there's just white noise

902
01:08:13,610 --> 01:08:19,470
i'm good that's awesome i love that you know what works for you and so iterating on that you know

903
01:08:19,470 --> 01:08:25,030
and i think we can all that's why it's there is no one size fits all i mean that would be so cool

904
01:08:25,030 --> 01:08:29,870
but uh also it would probably make a less interesting life that's true i do have an

905
01:08:29,870 --> 01:08:34,350
eight hour whale song playlist that i have on youtube that i listen to i work sometimes as well

906
01:08:34,350 --> 01:08:38,610
are you serious because i just need something in my head whale songs well it's just like

907
01:08:38,610 --> 01:08:40,050
It sounds so bad.

908
01:08:40,130 --> 01:08:40,490
Yeah, I know.

909
01:08:40,590 --> 01:08:41,630
It sounds terrible.

910
01:08:42,150 --> 01:08:45,170
But it's just like, it'll help me just zone out and actually do my work.

911
01:08:45,590 --> 01:08:46,790
Oh my God, that's hilarious.

912
01:08:46,810 --> 01:08:47,370
There you go.

913
01:08:47,790 --> 01:08:48,930
Amiti, this has been amazing.

914
01:08:49,130 --> 01:08:57,830
Wait, before we go, can I share some like a bit more about what Way has been up to and what Way is about to be up to?

915
01:08:57,890 --> 01:08:58,190
Absolutely.

916
01:08:58,710 --> 01:08:58,970
Okay.

917
01:08:59,150 --> 01:09:00,430
And tell everyone how to find it as well.

918
01:09:00,610 --> 01:09:01,450
Yeah, yeah, totally.

919
01:09:02,110 --> 01:09:06,530
Okay, so this past year has blown me away in terms of traction.

920
01:09:07,490 --> 01:09:14,110
We've had, Way has supported over 150 Freedom Tech builders coming from over 35 different

921
01:09:14,110 --> 01:09:17,390
countries, which I'm just completely astounded by.

922
01:09:17,990 --> 01:09:23,270
The stories of impact you've heard, I guess, just two, but oh my God, I could talk your

923
01:09:23,270 --> 01:09:28,230
ear off about, we need to do a better job of sharing them because it's really blown me

924
01:09:28,230 --> 01:09:28,550
away.

925
01:09:28,730 --> 01:09:34,290
People who are either, oh my God, I'm on the brink of burnout or things are blowing up

926
01:09:34,290 --> 01:09:42,710
And this has really helped me focus on what's important to be more efficient, you know, to level up the whole spectrum of things.

927
01:09:43,770 --> 01:09:48,730
We have, yeah, I think I mentioned we've supported so many different open source projects.

928
01:09:49,650 --> 01:09:52,790
And, yeah, we're doubling down.

929
01:09:52,790 --> 01:09:55,750
This upcoming year, Way is partnering with HRF.

930
01:09:55,870 --> 01:09:59,150
We're going to be supporting 50 HRF grantees.

931
01:09:59,610 --> 01:10:02,870
We're in talks with other organizations and looking.

932
01:10:02,870 --> 01:10:07,490
Right now, we have really big wait lists for these programs.

933
01:10:08,110 --> 01:10:20,650
So I highly recommend if you're interested in staying up to date with what Wei is doing, you can find us at www.wei.dev, W-A-Y-E dot D-E-V.

934
01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:22,270
Please include it in the show notes.

935
01:10:23,130 --> 01:10:25,510
I would recommend signing up for our newsletter.

936
01:10:25,510 --> 01:10:28,970
We have yet to send a mail, but we're working on it.

937
01:10:28,970 --> 01:10:32,010
The next time we launch a program,

938
01:10:32,010 --> 01:10:35,970
which, donors, you're very invited to help us

939
01:10:35,970 --> 01:10:38,970
reduce the size of these waitlists.

940
01:10:38,970 --> 01:10:42,770
But the next time we launch a program that's open source,

941
01:10:42,770 --> 01:10:44,830
that is available,

942
01:10:44,830 --> 01:10:49,050
we're going to definitely message out the mailing list.

943
01:10:49,050 --> 01:10:51,990
Any questions, you can email us, hello at way.dev.

944
01:10:51,990 --> 01:10:54,830
To be clear, it's not only for developers,

945
01:10:54,830 --> 01:10:56,970
it's for FreedomTech builders.

946
01:10:56,970 --> 01:10:58,170
Yeah.

947
01:10:58,170 --> 01:11:00,570
That's awesome. Thank you for this Amiti.

948
01:11:00,770 --> 01:11:01,710
Thank you so much.

949
01:11:02,210 --> 01:11:03,550
I think it's an amazing project.

950
01:11:04,330 --> 01:11:05,130
I'm so glad.

951
01:11:05,290 --> 01:11:06,290
And I've had fun. It's been great.

952
01:11:06,310 --> 01:11:07,430
I've had a great time. Thank you.