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Forget K-shaped economy completely because it cannot allow that deflation to hit the market.

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That credit-based system requires exponentially more monetary units.

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Otherwise, it collapses completely because if it allows deflation, your banks fail and

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everything fails, your government fails and everything fails.

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Every single person would be begging to manipulate money because the entire system would completely collapse to zero.

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It's a coordinated game. It's a crazy coordinated game.

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And you should be scared of what AI can do from that system.

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You don't have a vote with how much of your money is being manipulated.

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So we have an appearance, a charade of a democracy, which is really a control system.

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so i really want to go into the ai stuff because um i've been spending a bit of time sort of looking

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into it because it's so it's unbelievably useful and i'm not sure i'm into like the the doomer take

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of it's going to kill us although i did listen to a guy on peter's podcast recently who was like 90

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chance this kills us um but what i am a little bit doomerish about is what it does to the economy

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And if this is like just a massive accelerant for sort of the K-shaped economy where poor people just get even more left out in the cold.

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Let's jump in because I think even what you just described, what it describes for me is even as much as I think you understand my thesis, you don't quite yet.

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honestly jeff this is this is one of the things that i battle with so much because i want to think

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like you i really really do and i have glimpses of it but changing your entire worldview to fit

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your thesis is very hard yeah so so why don't we then then look for you and actually because i found

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when this has happened twice lately natalie natalie who did this on um just for her own

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knowledge because she couldn't understand it. And I thought she knew totally. And then it happened

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on Nico's podcast too, where he was just like, you could see him actually get it, right? You could

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actually see him get it in it. And both of those did like well over 200,000 views because it was

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helping so many people, other people get it. So I think just be really honest, let's just stay there

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in the uncomfortable and keep as for as long as we need to, because I just, I cannot tell you

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how many people I just got one, another person that just said it, uh, yesterday, um, or not today

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on, on Jeff, he goes, it fine. He said after four years, it finally clicks what Jeff Booth has been

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saying this whole time. And it changes just the, um, it's so much more than, than you think. So.

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yeah i mean i remember when we were speaking in bedford when we recorded a podcast for the old

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what bitcoin did and then afterwards um i don't know if you remember we did a short bit maybe like

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20 minutes for the patreon that we used to have yeah and um i we were digging into it then and

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when you were explaining it to me in bedford i remember a lot of it clicking and i still have

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moments where i i do see the world like jeff but it's not my i'm not always seeing the world like

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Yeah, yeah.

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So maybe we should just start there and get like, what is the thesis?

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Just let's start again.

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And I know we've done it a lot.

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I think even though people have heard this multiple times, I think you need to hear it a lot.

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So let's just start there.

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What is the Jeff Booth thesis?

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It's not just my thesis.

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So I always start with the natural state of the free market is deflation, right?

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And most people can nod their head to saying, yep, that's right, without understanding what they've just agreed to.

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Because if they agree to that, then it means they've never lived in a free market.

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And all their actions in the opposite market, in the opposite zero-sum game, drive every single thing that they're worried about in the world.

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right and they stay there right because and they're they try to integrate two two thoughts

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that cannot be integrated together they try to put them together and so and you're probably

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finding that same same thing so let's natural state of the free market is deflation right

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and we'll spend a little bit afterwards and we'll go down why a credit-based system

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can't allow deflation. Okay. Those, those two statements are both true and they're both opposite

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systems. They're completely opposite systems. One has to kill the other.

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That makes sense. That makes total sense. Um, but so why has natural, like if, if deflation is the

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natural state of the market, why is that not already killed the other, other truth that in

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a credit-based system, you can't have deflation. So the faster technology moves, the faster

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monetary easing and the faster manipulation of money. It's just a mirror image, right? It's one

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system is supposed to be making you richer through the prices falling, through essentially

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why is the natural state of the free market deflation is because every entrepreneur that

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creates any value has to compete with what came before, right? And if they don't provide more value

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to society, they fail because what was there before, we just use what was there before.

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When they do create more value for society, we use the more value, right? So we are part of the

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system that has to be deflationary because we always choose more value. That makes sense. So

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I kind of ninja launched this show and I didn't do a full context. I don't know where we're going

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to cut that in. But so the reason, something I've been thinking a lot about recently is like,

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AI is incredible. Like it has, I'm using it a lot. It's probably replaced at least half a person in

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terms of what I do for a business. And what I can't figure out is what impact this has on the

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economy. Like AI is probably the most deflationary tech we've maybe ever had. I don't know, maybe

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alongside Bitcoin, like the two most deflationary technologies we've ever had. And how does that

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not lead to a crazy, like it, how does that not exacerbate the K-shaped economy to the

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point where you have even fewer very rich and then a lot of very poor?

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Forget K-shaped economy completely.

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Okay.

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Your K-shaped economy would have to look like that through a credit-based system because

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it cannot allow that deflation to hit the market.

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has to just manipulate money.

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And the manipulation of money

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goes to the richest first

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because of the canceling effect.

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And so it creates bigger and bigger monopolies

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that coordinate with governments

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to create more and more regulation

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to protect the monopolies.

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And everybody else loses.

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You are talking about what happens

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inside a credit-based system

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when you use words like K-shaped economy.

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Right. So, so just keep in mind, and this is why this is so hard to, hard to do. They're different. You, you have to, you have to find out what's true, what it, it's sand at this first principle. So is, and that's why I ask questions so people can see it in themselves and then lead them to that. But is it true? Or I say if a lot.

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so if the natural state of the free market is deflation and we can test it all the way through

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and say yes that's why prices fall to the marginal cost of production in that what's the marginal

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cost of production of ai zero so prices of all ai will fall to zero what is marginal cost of

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production short term on robotics there's a marginal cost of production of physical robotics

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but then robots will create their own robots, right? They'll explode with the same AI merging,

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and prices will fall and fall and fall on those robots, and they'll take more and more jobs,

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and most of those will fall to near zero in time. All of the energy going into those,

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all of the raw materials going into those, are also experiencing the same

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fall in price, right? They're all being the base formation of everything we do is create more value.

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and we use more value.

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Why you are using more AI

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instead of hiring more people?

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Because if you don't,

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your show will lose out to somebody who is.

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Right?

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And you won't be able to provide as much value to your users,

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so your viewers will go somewhere else.

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So for sure you will use more AI.

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for sure AI is going to move exponentially

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and get better and better and better

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and do more things at an alarming rate

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and if you're using the AI now

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and you're looking at it as helpful now

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you're looking backwards

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because where it's coming

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and at the rate it's coming

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looking forward

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these things

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people haven't

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they're reading halfway through the book

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looking at the next page

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when you can already see

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the entire where the sun all unfolds. Because AI today is the worst it will ever be.

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Worst it will ever be. And there are very few people using AI today at the front edge of what's

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possible. Very few people. And that's today's front edge, not tomorrow's front edge. So as more

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and more people understand the power of this and what they'll be able to do, and they're building

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their own agents and network of agents that'll do a whole bunch of different complex tasks that

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you can't even imagine today. And those complex tasks will get easier and easier and easier.

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It's just, it's almost, it is inconceivable that that doesn't destroy labor.

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Inconceivable. Because what are you doing? Instead of hiring somebody for 20 hours a week,

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you're getting more product productivity so you don't have to and it cost me 20 a month or whatever

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and pretty pretty soon that'll be free the part that i struggle with is like if because i totally

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agree with what you're saying there um i think it will wipe out the job market in a way that we've

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never seen before but if the k-shaped economy is the wrong way of looking at it what's the right

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way of looking at it so so now you have to um enter in so so and i'm doing this in in in air in

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kind of levels so you can see so two things are true credit based uh system that lends money

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into existence so right so when a bank lends you money there was no money

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and if all the money was repaid from all the banks all over the world there'd be no money

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So when that credit-based system requires exponentially more monetary units,

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otherwise it collapses completely. Because if it allows deflation,

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it collapses completely. And it gets faster and faster and faster. And your houses fall

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in it. Your banks fail in it. Everything fails. Your government fails in it. Everything fails.

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So what you could say quite simply from that is, Danny knows you wouldn't let it fail.

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So you call yourself a free market person, yourself, and you would not let that fail.

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Right?

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Because if it did, you'd be, every single person would be begging to manipulate money because the entire system would completely collapse to zero.

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every house, every business, everything, because it's built on that credit based money.

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Is there a part of that where like, you're right, I wouldn't want to click my fingers and have that

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fail because that's just suffering all over the world. But is there an argument that you want that

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to fail very slowly as Bitcoin just eats everything else? So that's what it's doing.

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Yeah. So that's what I'm getting at. So now, so understand those action. So if those two

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systems are opposite, then you can kind of do some deductive reasoning and what does that mean,

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right? And say, so what it means is if the natural state of the free market is deflation,

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then it means we have never lived in a global free market. Yeah. Like it kind of takes your

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breath away. But now what does that mean? You don't, you have no, no understanding of what that

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means. You're trying to apply what I'm saying into a different past framework. Because all the books

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you've ever read about what free markets look like, what government structures look like, what

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capitalism looks like, what every single word you have to describe your previous realities,

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were all created by the winners write the history books, and money was always co-opted.

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So it would be normal to try to attach this new thing in Bitcoin that's never existed before

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to your previous biases and try to make them work together. It'd be totally normal.

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But is there kind of a middle step that is missed there in the sense that I agree that

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the paradigm we live in now is not the paradigm we'll live in in the future.

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But there's going to be a transition period. And what happens in that transition period?

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So that transition period is happening right now. So this house, I've said it many times on your

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podcast, this house, and every time I say it, right, it's cheaper in Bitcoin terms, right? Now

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it was 300 Bitcoin five years ago, and now it's 11 Bitcoin. And every time we're on a podcast

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together is cheaper in Bitcoin terms. And so if you measure, what would, what a different question,

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an open, anybody could use it, decentralized, secure, you cannot break it, protocol,

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which would come in layers, adding more and more functionality, protocol bounded by energy look

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like, wouldn't it, if it stayed decentralized and secure, and you couldn't change it, and

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it was bounded by energy, wouldn't it describe the first global free market that ever existed?

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And wouldn't relative to it, all energy prices be falling, all manufacturing prices be falling,

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all house prices be falling, all everything be falling, right?

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If you measured from that first global free market, you could say every single person that moved their time to it would compete more for value for all of us.

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And you would have faster and faster deflation in it forever.

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Yeah.

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From that.

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And the only caveat, the only caveat would be it stays decentralized and secure.

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There isn't another caveat.

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So if it stayed decentralized and secure, and so all of the work should be, do you believe

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it'll stay decentralized and secure and how can you become a node to ensure it does, right?

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And then you start utilizing your time into this new protocol and you are part of the thing that imposing a discipline across the world that is the first global free market that ever existed that and and that and the more you inside

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that system everything else from the other system makes perfect sense it makes perfect sense why

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it would try to drive you into fear that ai is going to kill you it would make it because that's

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that way you could regulate AI. It would try to make you believe that Biden was a hero or Trump

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was a hero or name insert any single person from that system. Elon Musk, just name a bunch of

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people from inside that system. It would be trying to convince you that it wasn't a structural

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problem. Somebody could save you. And it would be doing that with more and more AI tools.

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and you if the more you listened inside that system the more you would be convinced

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that that's normal i i guess like i again there's nothing that you say that i disagree with but so i

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was walking around the supermarket yesterday my daughter was asleep and i was just doing the

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shopping and i was thinking about this interview and like if you go if you asked anyone in there

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like the people living in fiat world i think they're constantly under this pressure that

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housing's getting more expensive, is further and further out of reach. Their groceries are getting

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more expensive. And there's like a wistfulness, I think, for the old days. Like they want things to

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be like they used to be or like how their parents had it. And then there's me there as a Bitcoiner

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who's like, all these things are getting cheaper. That's the world I already live in. But there's

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probably only one or two other people in the entire supermarket that even really know what Bitcoin is,

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if that. And so what happens to all those people that haven't understood what Bitcoin is in this

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transition. I think that's what I'm unsure about. Okay. This, this goes on forever.

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And we're very, very early. We're crazy early because I would say the majority of Bitcoiners

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are actually Bitcoiners measuring in a U S dollar thinking it's going up.

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Absolutely. In other words, the majority of Bitcoiners are still reinforcing an inflationary

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monetary system. And the majority of Bitcoiners will sell their Bitcoin back to that system.

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In other words, they'll distribute their Bitcoin to other people, right?

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As this goes on, it's, we are so crazy early, um, uh, in, insanely early in, in the understanding

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that this is imposing a new discipline, but most, most people, so just take three different

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buckets of people.

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There's Bitcoiners that are, are like you and I who are pricing in Bitcoin and watching

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the first global free market advance.

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And in that world, AI is wonderful.

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It's a productivity tool,

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makes everybody richer.

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It just moves faster and faster,

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broad-based abundance from that world.

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There's another group of people

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who are Bitcoiners

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who are still in fiat, right?

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And who are potentially getting co-opted

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by a system that it would,

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if you couldn't kill Bitcoin, what you'd try to do is co-opt it.

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Try to get people not to go into self-custody, not run nodes. You can trust,

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you can trust the centralized version of a paper instrument, tether or whatever on, on,

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on Bitcoin. You should, that's safer. You would, you'd be convinced in that. And you'd be convinced

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because it would appear to you, your Bitcoin was going up and it would match your view of the world.

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right? It's always been, prices always rise. And then there'd be a third group of people who

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don't understand Bitcoin at all, think it's a scam or it's so early. And what would be happening

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in their world? They'd be getting debased at a crazy rate. So it actually says nothing about

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Bitcoin. It says nothing about, it says our own version of what we think reality looks like

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in this new immovable thing that's imposing a discipline.

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And on each side, you could see the,

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and I've said this many times before,

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so I apologize if people have heard it over and over again,

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but imagine being in Venezuela and knowing this,

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because a lot of people had access to Bitcoin in Venezuela early,

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and some people took it.

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Some people took it, not just held it, but some people took it and then also created businesses on top of it.

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And most people held their currency and got destroyed by their currency.

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So that's what's going to happen.

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And everybody looks at Venezuela and says, I can't believe they did that.

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When they are doing it themselves right now.

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Because everywhere is Venezuela.

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It's just relative.

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it's just in the west it's much more of a like it's the boiling frog analogy isn't it instead of

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it jumping into a boiling pan it's just slowly heating up i actually just did a show with maricho

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from leden and he told his venezuela story which was like his family's venezuela story because it's

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really about his brother escaping and then one thing he said in the show is like without bitcoin

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he his brother could have escaped but he wouldn't have the ability to build a life elsewhere and so

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Bitcoin really did allow his brother to escape Venezuela and continue to sort of thrive.

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Whereas like so many people just got completely wiped out.

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And that's going to happen in a town near you, right?

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It's happening everywhere right now.

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And people think that they're safe in that.

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It's the most unsafe thing you could be.

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Like every single currency, it's relative devaluation, not is it devaluing?

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So in other words, a relative theft rather than is it theft. And that means no one in the world

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today actually lives in a true democracy because you don't have a vote with how much of your money

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is being manipulated. So we have an appearance, a charade of a democracy, which is really a control

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system where the majority of the money comes from debasing your units, just stealing from you.

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And so, of course, from within that system and what that system would have to do to make you think it's okay to do that, it would be filled with all the things people are worried about.

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And it will also make people more worried if you were just trying to understand Bitcoin, it would be pulling you into that other system.

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So earlier in the show, you said that I wouldn't choose to just turn off the current system like the click of my fingers.

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And I wouldn't because of the amount of suffering that would cause other people.

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But in some ways, does AI actually enshrine the power of this like control system in the sense that as people lose their jobs, they're going to want things like UBI?

282
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And does that actually make the system stronger in some ways?

283
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So this is a nuanced question.

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yes to the people that don't know because they're essentially being mind melded into this is okay.

285
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And they will vote for more of it. And they'll take less and less agency and trust other people

286
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have their best interests while that's being extracted. Wealth and power is being extracted

287
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from them. And they will turn within the system, just like this has always happened before in all

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of our previous history, to elect other people to essentially take more of their individual rights

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and freedoms in the name of protecting them. It will happen. It might happen. And lots of people

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will be stuck there. But while that's happening as well, there's an escape hatch for every single

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person who wants to take their own agency and build onto the first global free market

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that's ever existed. And nothing can stop them. Nothing. And so they can just move.

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I've said many times, it's like they're in a jail cell yelling at their captor.

294
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And the jail cell door is open and they can just walk out and live in freedom. And they're so

295
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convinced with their narrative of the way that the world looks. This, by the way, this is true

296
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for many Bitcoiners too, thinking that there's a solve within that through politics.

297
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While this other system is completely imposing a different reality.

298
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Do you think we are likely to see UBI in the next, I don't know, say like five years?

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Will people vote for more UBI and elect people who say that you can have something from nothing

300
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without understanding where that money comes from? Where does it come from?

301
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Where does the money for UBI come from if the natural state of the free market is deflation?

302
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Meaning if you didn't have UBI, if you just held Bitcoin and you were in the new system,

303
00:26:49,507 --> 00:26:52,767
every year prices are falling for you forever.

304
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Yep.

305
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And it would accelerate.

306
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So if you wanted UBI, where does the money come from?

307
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It comes from stopping the prices from falling.

308
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That's where it comes from.

309
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It comes from manipulating the free market to stop prices from falling, to convince you it's somebody else's fault.

310
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And you need money, because you wouldn't need that money or the job if prices kept falling.

311
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Maybe, can you explain that further?

312
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So, so why prices fall?

313
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Because we use the more value is also because, because more value costs less to, to be able to create.

314
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So new competitors, and why does it cost less?

315
00:27:36,347 --> 00:27:41,908
Because we use technology that removes jobs to be able to create more value for people.

316
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So the fall in prices is a part of the jobs being removed.

317
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But if people lose their job to AI, they're still going to need to buy groceries, which

318
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even if the price is full, there is still a price to those groceries.

319
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So how does that work?

320
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So if you're in Bitcoin, you already see it, right? If you were in Bitcoin four years ago or eight years ago, and you just bought $100 a week, you never have to worry about groceries or anything else again right now.

321
00:28:16,107 --> 00:28:22,047
Mm-hmm. Prices are falling forever on those items, and they will continue to fall forever

322
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on all of those items. What you're describing is you're measuring from the system thinking prices

323
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always rise. I don't have enough Bitcoin, and from that system, prices will keep rising,

324
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and then you lose your job, and you wonder how you're going to pay for those groceries,

325
00:28:39,527 --> 00:28:43,127
because you're not living in a Bitcoin system. You're living in a fiat system,

326
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and it is a risk from the fiat system. And there's nothing, by the way, Bitcoin didn't create that

327
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problem. That problem exists in itself, right? It exists, the entire problem is essentially

328
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an economy based on theft. Like if you just ask what money is, it's just the trade between us.

329
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It's just an abstract concept for the trade between us.

330
00:29:10,367 --> 00:29:18,928
So if you insert manipulation into money to the trade between us, what would happen to our trade?

331
00:29:22,447 --> 00:29:24,067
It's just entirely manipulated.

332
00:29:24,527 --> 00:29:25,408
Yeah, everything.

333
00:29:25,767 --> 00:29:30,487
And what would happen to all of your beliefs from that system if that's what it looked like?

334
00:29:30,507 --> 00:29:32,787
It would have to touch absolutely everything.

335
00:29:33,388 --> 00:29:35,747
So it has to touch education.

336
00:29:35,747 --> 00:29:36,967
It has to touch.

337
00:29:38,607 --> 00:29:41,707
The economy is so crazy, simple.

338
00:29:42,227 --> 00:29:44,967
You could explain it to a five-year-old.

339
00:29:45,607 --> 00:29:46,967
We trade with each other.

340
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We trade with more people all over the world to try to gain more value.

341
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And unobstructed from that, prices continue to fall forever as we gain more value.

342
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Everybody wins.

343
00:30:01,527 --> 00:30:03,227
It's an infinite game where everyone wins.

344
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That's how, that's how, that's how, that's everything in an economy.

345
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There is nothing else.

346
00:30:10,547 --> 00:30:16,287
So all of what you've learned, why people are so scared to ask the question I just asked,

347
00:30:16,727 --> 00:30:20,727
because they don't think they're smart enough to know something that a five-year-old could

348
00:30:20,727 --> 00:30:22,447
understand simply, right?

349
00:30:22,888 --> 00:30:26,527
Because they're looking at it through a system that says that you're not smart enough.

350
00:30:26,648 --> 00:30:30,087
You need a PhD to understand how an economy works.

351
00:30:30,087 --> 00:30:35,527
You need to understand all of these different three-letter words and all of this manipulation

352
00:30:35,527 --> 00:30:40,367
so it's harder and more opaque to understand.

353
00:30:40,587 --> 00:30:44,467
And as you chase these things and you're told, oh, no, that's stupid, right?

354
00:30:44,727 --> 00:30:56,467
You're inside this other system designed to make a very, very simple complex system seem hard to understand.

355
00:30:56,467 --> 00:31:03,467
So for anyone that's not owning Bitcoin right now, I assume this gets sort of exponentially

356
00:31:03,467 --> 00:31:06,287
worse as it gets exponentially better for Bitcoiners.

357
00:31:06,287 --> 00:31:06,827
Yes.

358
00:31:07,648 --> 00:31:08,207
Yes.

359
00:31:08,428 --> 00:31:14,987
And that's why a lot of the Bitcoiners, because it's exponentially better for Bitcoiners,

360
00:31:15,668 --> 00:31:19,607
they're thinking in terms of fiat and they'll just sell their Bitcoin and they'll move right

361
00:31:19,607 --> 00:31:20,207
back to fiat.

362
00:31:21,107 --> 00:31:25,668
And they'll still be retire wealthy and everything else, but they'll distribute their Bitcoin

363
00:31:25,668 --> 00:31:30,787
to everybody else who's just coming to today and this is going to continue to happen forever

364
00:31:30,787 --> 00:31:36,587
how long do you think it takes for us to move out of this old system to the new system

365
00:31:36,587 --> 00:31:41,607
so so when you ask that you're asking you're really asking how to how long does it take everyone

366
00:31:41,607 --> 00:31:48,967
when it doesn't matter yeah but it it honestly doesn't matter it just matters for you

367
00:31:48,967 --> 00:31:56,168
matters for your friends. It matters for, um, but, but you know, and, um, they say in a plane,

368
00:31:56,267 --> 00:32:02,327
put on your own oxygen mask first, might want to put on your own oxygen mask first. And it doesn't

369
00:32:02,327 --> 00:32:08,127
matter what is, so the, when people see that you've already moved and you're living in a higher

370
00:32:08,127 --> 00:32:15,067
energy form, right. And, um, and everything in your life is getting better. As long as you're not

371
00:32:15,067 --> 00:32:19,327
kind of using that and saying you're a dummy

372
00:32:19,327 --> 00:32:22,827
and use it kind of an ego-driven thing.

373
00:32:23,227 --> 00:32:27,148
As long as you still care about that process,

374
00:32:27,267 --> 00:32:28,287
you care about other people,

375
00:32:28,707 --> 00:32:32,168
you can talk about it at a very high energy type of thing

376
00:32:32,168 --> 00:32:34,428
and just allow them to see it in their own time.

377
00:32:35,148 --> 00:32:36,408
And they'll see it in their own time.

378
00:32:36,888 --> 00:32:40,267
Do you know somebody who is in Bitcoin

379
00:32:40,267 --> 00:32:42,087
and the more time they spend in Bitcoin,

380
00:32:42,087 --> 00:32:44,428
the better and better all of these things are?

381
00:32:45,067 --> 00:32:46,607
Not everyone in Bitcoin.

382
00:32:46,607 --> 00:32:48,908
Everyone in Bitcoin. Every single person.

383
00:32:48,908 --> 00:32:53,107
And that's, I think, why it becomes so hard for people,

384
00:32:53,408 --> 00:32:55,447
because we are living in a different world.

385
00:32:56,027 --> 00:32:57,067
We're living on something.

386
00:32:57,067 --> 00:32:59,367
We see the hope, the abundance, the truth.

387
00:32:59,367 --> 00:33:02,188
We see a totally different world.

388
00:33:02,567 --> 00:33:05,367
And so when I'm walking down the street or when I'm paying in Bitcoin,

389
00:33:05,367 --> 00:33:08,908
when I'm doing this, all my relationships, many of my relationships are in it.

390
00:33:08,908 --> 00:33:19,767
I just, it's a mirror that's on a foundation of truth, right? And that mirror, that reflection

391
00:33:19,767 --> 00:33:26,087
back, the more time you spend in it, it just gets better and better and better. And you can leave

392
00:33:26,087 --> 00:33:31,367
the other system behind. But you did, I did, everything else. As we were moving our time

393
00:33:31,367 --> 00:33:33,767
and more and more of it to this new system.

394
00:33:34,867 --> 00:33:36,947
We also had the same questions

395
00:33:36,947 --> 00:33:39,347
that every single person

396
00:33:39,347 --> 00:33:43,487
that is just starting their journey today has.

397
00:33:43,688 --> 00:33:45,428
I know when I first looked at it,

398
00:33:45,567 --> 00:33:48,467
I didn't think this could stay decentralized and secure.

399
00:33:48,467 --> 00:33:52,107
I thought if in 5,000 years of human history

400
00:33:52,107 --> 00:33:56,547
that we've never allowed a global free market,

401
00:33:57,227 --> 00:34:00,247
then it must be something in us

402
00:34:00,247 --> 00:34:02,767
that chooses short term over long term.

403
00:34:03,787 --> 00:34:07,388
And we could always get co-opted again.

404
00:34:07,648 --> 00:34:11,748
And so I had a really high bar on could Bitcoin resolve this paradox.

405
00:34:12,827 --> 00:34:15,627
And I believe now it resolves this paradox.

406
00:34:17,448 --> 00:34:22,307
I guess one of the reasons that I care about this kind of happening

407
00:34:22,307 --> 00:34:24,468
to more than just me and my friends and my family

408
00:34:24,468 --> 00:34:29,827
is because with the degradation of fiat comes like a degradation of society.

409
00:34:30,248 --> 00:34:36,307
And I want my daughter to grow up in a nice place, not somewhere that's just a dystopian hellscape.

410
00:34:36,668 --> 00:34:36,847
Yeah.

411
00:34:37,188 --> 00:34:40,308
It's why I wrote, by the way, this is why I wrote my book, right?

412
00:34:40,308 --> 00:34:41,847
Because you could see what would happen.

413
00:34:41,847 --> 00:34:46,367
And there's going to be a whole bunch of dystopian hellscapes.

414
00:34:47,808 --> 00:35:00,207
There's dystopian hellscapes today in this world where you have the privilege because you were raised in one of essentially the taker countries from the have not countries that we were essentially.

415
00:35:00,248 --> 00:35:07,927
putting in that position from a monetary system. We didn't know it or people in the West didn't

416
00:35:07,927 --> 00:35:25,355
know it but they were part of the haves and other people had to be part of the have in an economic system that it was a zero game And so but there been lots of in your life in my life a whole bunch of regions that are hellscapes

417
00:35:25,355 --> 00:35:32,095
And those regions are hellscapes largely because of the same system that provides your success.

418
00:35:32,095 --> 00:35:40,735
right that's a really hard thing to to know that's true for sure because it wasn't a global free

419
00:35:40,735 --> 00:35:46,595
market and so we're on the winning side of that worried about the hellscapes that are coming to

420
00:35:46,595 --> 00:35:55,315
our countries from the very same thing are you worried about the centralization of control over

421
00:35:55,315 --> 00:35:59,675
these ai systems in the sense that really it's kind of like four or five big tech companies in

422
00:35:59,675 --> 00:36:09,415
Silicon Valley that are driving everything. Yeah. So I think, I don't know if I told you this,

423
00:36:09,495 --> 00:36:16,015
but one of the robotics companies, one of the AGI robotics companies that's one of the leaders

424
00:36:16,015 --> 00:36:24,435
right now was started by a friend of mine. Okay. And his chief scientific officer said to me,

425
00:36:24,555 --> 00:36:28,555
we're going to create the first multi-trillion dollar company because it's not going to have

426
00:36:28,555 --> 00:36:36,155
any humans working in it. And I said, well, where does the money come from? And the money comes from

427
00:36:36,155 --> 00:36:43,335
that sitting on top of that system that aggregates it all to the control companies.

428
00:36:43,335 --> 00:36:52,495
And so that race, that global race for AI from that system, of course, is China, US, NVIDIA,

429
00:36:52,495 --> 00:37:01,075
all of these are all kind of how do we win this game so we control ai and a lot of winning that

430
00:37:01,075 --> 00:37:08,395
game is convincing you through all of your social media channels and everything else that that's okay

431
00:37:08,395 --> 00:37:13,535
that that's the way the system so you're living inside this and most of your most of your channels

432
00:37:13,535 --> 00:37:19,895
everything else and it is a core it's a coordinated game it's a crazy coordinated game and you should

433
00:37:19,895 --> 00:37:25,135
be scared of what AI can do from that system. Is that because controlling AI is just controlling

434
00:37:25,135 --> 00:37:31,095
everyone's data essentially? Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're training the AI every time you're, you're

435
00:37:31,095 --> 00:37:36,635
using these models and error and you've seen an error and you correct the error. You're training

436
00:37:36,635 --> 00:37:45,815
the, uh, you're training the AI. Yeah. So they're now, um, and so they talk about synthetic data.

437
00:37:45,815 --> 00:37:51,815
those would be the worst ai models on the planet because you'd just have garbage in garbage out

438
00:37:51,815 --> 00:37:59,815
we are the ai like literally what we do as humans we are abundance creating machines out of scarcity

439
00:37:59,815 --> 00:38:08,555
nothing that's ever been scarce so far have we not found a way to break through with our minds

440
00:38:08,555 --> 00:38:14,235
and create abundance from it if you look back through history and why would that be normal

441
00:38:14,235 --> 00:38:18,335
is because that centralized or that power or that margin

442
00:38:18,335 --> 00:38:24,855
attracts more entrepreneurs to solve those problems in a different way.

443
00:38:24,855 --> 00:38:32,135
So anything that's stuck has always become unstuck through just our mind.

444
00:38:34,155 --> 00:38:35,935
That's our role in this.

445
00:38:36,015 --> 00:38:39,775
And then we use the things that give us more value.

446
00:38:40,335 --> 00:38:41,855
So it's a really simple concept.

447
00:38:42,295 --> 00:38:43,735
Really simple concept.

448
00:38:43,735 --> 00:38:51,155
The problem is you're trying to marry that concept into something that it cannot connect to because it's never existed.

449
00:38:51,555 --> 00:39:02,155
So when you connect that concept to Bitcoin and then you say, do you have this open decentralized secure protocol bounded by energy that can't be cheated?

450
00:39:03,055 --> 00:39:05,915
Then it will impose the concept I just said.

451
00:39:06,915 --> 00:39:13,715
And that means relative to that concept, all governments will get smaller over time.

452
00:39:13,735 --> 00:39:19,055
It means relative to that, the debt in the world will be repriced and it'll be way smaller

453
00:39:19,055 --> 00:39:22,475
debt on the new system.

454
00:39:22,475 --> 00:39:25,815
It means your house price is falling and will fall forever.

455
00:39:25,815 --> 00:39:30,555
It falls back to its utility value where you raise your family in a house, right?

456
00:39:30,555 --> 00:39:34,595
Because it's a beautiful neighborhood with your friends and family and kids riding their

457
00:39:34,595 --> 00:39:42,115
bikes instead of a store of value against depreciate currencies that are being devalued.

458
00:39:42,115 --> 00:39:48,415
means a whole bunch of other things from the new system that's imposing that. But you have to stay

459
00:39:48,415 --> 00:39:56,095
in the new system. You say, is the natural state of the free market deflation? Yes or no? Yes.

460
00:39:57,775 --> 00:40:05,075
Should we be seeing exponential deflation or exponential productivity gains, which would

461
00:40:05,075 --> 00:40:14,615
drive exponential deflation? Yes or no? Yes. If you had a decentralized secure protocol bounded

462
00:40:14,615 --> 00:40:20,935
by energy that couldn't be cheated, it would be pricing that exactly what I just described

463
00:40:20,935 --> 00:40:26,695
perfectly. Would it also be true at the same time that most people wouldn't get,

464
00:40:27,075 --> 00:40:32,375
be able to hold on to that thought that I just said, and they would go back to their old,

465
00:40:32,375 --> 00:40:38,055
they would be living okay okay I get it I get it prices are falling I get it and then they would

466
00:40:38,055 --> 00:40:43,315
look at the Bitcoin price in US dollars or whatever every day and think it's going up

467
00:40:43,315 --> 00:40:51,795
of course they would right would the would it hang would Bitcoin price going up hang better

468
00:40:51,795 --> 00:40:59,115
off their mental models of previous models would that then say how are governments going to deal

469
00:40:59,115 --> 00:41:08,635
with this? Would that then say, okay, are they going to drive more EUBI? All of these models

470
00:41:08,635 --> 00:41:18,475
that you're describing are actually our own cognitive dissonance trying to take two incompatible

471
00:41:18,475 --> 00:41:23,395
models and put them together. Do you wish you could access cash without selling your Bitcoin?

472
00:41:24,015 --> 00:41:27,415
Well, Ledin makes that possible. They're the global leader in Bitcoin-backed lending,

473
00:41:27,415 --> 00:41:32,355
and since 2018 they've issued over $9 billion in loans with a perfect record of protecting client

474
00:41:32,355 --> 00:41:37,155
assets. With Ledin you get full custody loans with no credit checks or monthly repayments,

475
00:41:37,275 --> 00:41:43,135
just easy access to dollars without selling a single SAT. As of July 1st, Ledin is Bitcoin only,

476
00:41:43,315 --> 00:41:47,435
meaning they exclusively offer Bitcoin backed loans with all collateral held by Ledin directly

477
00:41:47,435 --> 00:41:51,175
or their funding partners. Your Bitcoin is never lent out to generate interest.

478
00:41:51,615 --> 00:41:54,955
I recently took out a loan with Ledin and the whole process couldn't have been easier.

479
00:41:54,955 --> 00:41:59,795
The application took me less than 15 minutes and in just a few hours I had the dollars in my bank account.

480
00:41:59,975 --> 00:42:00,835
It was super smooth.

481
00:42:01,275 --> 00:42:07,075
So if you need cash but you don't want to sell Bitcoin, head over to learn.leden.io forward slash WBD

482
00:42:07,075 --> 00:42:09,675
and you'll get 0.25% off your first loan.

483
00:42:10,195 --> 00:42:13,395
That's learn.leden.io forward slash WBD.

484
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485
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486
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487
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488
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489
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490
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491
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492
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493
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494
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495
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496
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497
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498
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499
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500
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501
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week of free hosting and electricity. Of course none of this is tax advice, speak with Blockware

502
00:43:36,635 --> 00:43:42,615
to learn more at mining.blockwaresolutions.com forward slash WBD. This is one of the funny things

503
00:43:42,615 --> 00:43:44,195
like obviously Bitcoin's been ripping.

504
00:43:44,455 --> 00:43:46,195
And every time like we're in a bull market,

505
00:43:46,315 --> 00:43:47,055
people will ask me like,

506
00:43:47,095 --> 00:43:48,155
what's your price you're going to sell at?

507
00:43:48,475 --> 00:43:49,975
And my answer is always like, sell for what?

508
00:43:50,115 --> 00:43:52,375
Like what am I going to sell it back to fiat?

509
00:43:52,655 --> 00:43:53,275
Absolutely not.

510
00:43:53,375 --> 00:43:54,735
Like there are realistic situations

511
00:43:54,735 --> 00:43:57,035
where I would sell Bitcoin to make my life better

512
00:43:57,035 --> 00:43:59,395
because time is more scarce than anything.

513
00:44:00,375 --> 00:44:02,635
So if I was going to buy a house for the family

514
00:44:02,635 --> 00:44:04,095
or whatever it is, like those things,

515
00:44:04,195 --> 00:44:05,835
I understand why you sell Bitcoin

516
00:44:05,835 --> 00:44:08,275
to get something like a new house,

517
00:44:08,375 --> 00:44:09,795
like improve your life,

518
00:44:09,815 --> 00:44:10,995
but sell it for fiat.

519
00:44:11,095 --> 00:44:12,415
Like it makes no sense to me.

520
00:44:12,615 --> 00:44:33,395
Totally. And just like you probably bought a big flat screen TV 10 years ago, right? And then TV felt more and it didn't stop you from buying that TV, even though you knew that. And then you bought another TV, right? A better one and a bigger one or any computer equipment.

521
00:44:33,395 --> 00:44:41,715
by the way, all of those items are still being debased. So they're way higher than they would be

522
00:44:41,715 --> 00:44:46,355
in a natural free market, but you can see where Moore's law is moving really fast.

523
00:44:46,355 --> 00:44:51,395
You can see that they're outpacing even the debasement of currency and how much they're

524
00:44:51,395 --> 00:44:58,915
falling. But all of those items, just like you'll buy in Bitcoin, I spend Bitcoin every day

525
00:44:58,915 --> 00:45:07,195
knowing full well that the bitcoin i'm spending today will buy more tomorrow yeah because life is

526
00:45:07,195 --> 00:45:11,075
like you life is just life you have to spend something but it's like i remember the first

527
00:45:11,075 --> 00:45:16,155
time my dad bought a flat screen tv it was like four grand and uh that same tv so it cost you

528
00:45:16,155 --> 00:45:22,855
like a hundred dollars and in fact you couldn't get one as bad totally um so when it comes to

529
00:45:22,855 --> 00:45:28,695
like the idea of super intelligence do you have any because because to like to kind of

530
00:45:28,695 --> 00:45:34,055
conceptualize what you're saying here it seems like you're almost saying who cares you know like

531
00:45:34,055 --> 00:45:39,335
this stuff is happening like i live in a system outside of the current system so just let it

532
00:45:39,335 --> 00:45:45,615
happen and and i will be better off at the end of it so i wouldn't i've probably done 1500 podcasts

533
00:45:45,615 --> 00:45:52,995
right? I've probably done. And why would I keep saying yes? I care, right? I care to help more

534
00:45:52,995 --> 00:46:01,575
people understand this. I really do. Because if something grabs them and they can move their time,

535
00:46:01,735 --> 00:46:09,275
their energy into a productive system that is for all of us, then everybody wins. Those people won.

536
00:46:09,275 --> 00:46:17,575
those people might then touch tens of millions of people more. And essentially what's happening is

537
00:46:17,575 --> 00:46:25,515
you're bending reality into a new world that looks nothing like any previous reality.

538
00:46:26,035 --> 00:46:29,775
And all of those people that are starting to understand, even if it's the first day and

539
00:46:29,775 --> 00:46:33,875
they're just starting to understand and then they spend 1% of their energy and they put

540
00:46:33,875 --> 00:46:39,035
a little bit into Bitcoin self-custody, then they'll start to learn more about this and

541
00:46:39,035 --> 00:46:47,875
they'll take time. So I do care. I care a lot. But I can't, when somebody says,

542
00:46:47,875 --> 00:46:53,315
how do you get everybody to move tomorrow? What does it look like for all those people that are

543
00:46:53,315 --> 00:47:00,695
stuck? And I know full well the chaos. I'm not like how terrible it is. It already is bad.

544
00:47:01,555 --> 00:47:06,315
And it's getting worse. And many of those people, they don't know that,

545
00:47:06,315 --> 00:47:08,575
but they're feeding the thing they're most scared of.

546
00:47:09,675 --> 00:47:12,315
And they're fighting with people within that system,

547
00:47:13,315 --> 00:47:14,855
thinking that it's the other person,

548
00:47:14,935 --> 00:47:16,375
and the other person thinks it's them,

549
00:47:16,835 --> 00:47:18,575
and it's neither, right?

550
00:47:20,355 --> 00:47:22,535
Both people could escape,

551
00:47:22,635 --> 00:47:24,055
and they could see how beautiful

552
00:47:24,055 --> 00:47:25,815
both of the people are on the new system.

553
00:47:27,755 --> 00:47:31,895
And so that system is designed for coercion control, right?

554
00:47:31,895 --> 00:47:33,995
It has to look like that,

555
00:47:34,075 --> 00:47:35,495
and if you're feeding it, if you're...

556
00:47:35,495 --> 00:47:37,735
And so what I'm saying is not that I don't care.

557
00:47:38,615 --> 00:47:44,535
I don't let that energy, which is really low frequency energy, touch me.

558
00:47:46,955 --> 00:47:51,835
And so do you think that one of the things that could actually accelerate the decline

559
00:47:51,835 --> 00:47:57,455
of the current system is AI in the sense that if we get these AI agents and super intelligence,

560
00:47:57,455 --> 00:48:02,335
they're going to at some point need a money to transact between each other and they may

561
00:48:02,335 --> 00:48:03,355
end up picking Bitcoin.

562
00:48:03,355 --> 00:48:07,695
Yeah, so not the way that you just described at all, right?

563
00:48:07,775 --> 00:48:08,935
Okay, tell me what you're saying.

564
00:48:09,415 --> 00:48:18,095
So, and I'm not saying that you couldn't create a business on needing transact sats on that,

565
00:48:18,195 --> 00:48:19,155
and you could create a business.

566
00:48:20,255 --> 00:48:27,455
So that is likely to happen as individual companies try to create more value on this system.

567
00:48:27,455 --> 00:48:32,175
But remember, I said before, those prices are going to fall to zero.

568
00:48:33,355 --> 00:48:37,315
The AI won't need something to interact with another AI to pay the other AI.

569
00:48:37,775 --> 00:48:39,295
Why does the AI need the money?

570
00:48:40,075 --> 00:48:40,875
To pay for compute.

571
00:48:41,975 --> 00:48:44,755
But it's not the AI paying for compute.

572
00:48:44,895 --> 00:48:46,315
It's a company paying for compute.

573
00:48:50,195 --> 00:48:52,195
It's somebody paying for compute.

574
00:48:53,195 --> 00:48:54,675
And so they're under the same thing.

575
00:48:54,995 --> 00:48:58,595
So all these things would centralize up.

576
00:48:58,595 --> 00:49:04,815
And so these prices continue to fall in this forever.

577
00:49:05,375 --> 00:49:09,335
They drive falling prices everywhere else forever.

578
00:49:10,295 --> 00:49:16,135
It's easier to say, just Bitcoin imposes a discipline that makes the free market work.

579
00:49:16,995 --> 00:49:20,655
And now you have no place to hide from the free market.

580
00:49:21,995 --> 00:49:27,655
The free market is being imposed, first global free market,

581
00:49:27,655 --> 00:49:33,575
and you have a chance to contribute to it and benefit from it by moving to Bitcoin.

582
00:49:34,055 --> 00:49:40,855
Or you could stay in a centralized market that it has to get more and more centralized

583
00:49:40,855 --> 00:49:43,975
and be stuck there.

584
00:49:46,955 --> 00:49:51,075
So in that, instead of thinking about Bitcoin,

585
00:49:51,075 --> 00:49:58,755
that's where instead of thinking about Bitcoin as the user of a tool that is, is then the,

586
00:49:58,755 --> 00:50:04,215
sorry, an AI using Bitcoin as a user of a tool that then has this super intelligence. That's

587
00:50:04,215 --> 00:50:09,915
a squad like intelligence. That's over all of us because it's using Bitcoin.

588
00:50:09,915 --> 00:50:20,015
it's just like any tool it's a powerful powerful tool like like on any that we have

589
00:50:20,015 --> 00:50:26,475
unlike anything we've ever seen and it will make it will be incredible at finding

590
00:50:26,475 --> 00:50:33,915
drug discovery a whole bunch of other stuff uh things in physics that we haven't like patterns

591
00:50:33,915 --> 00:50:38,395
that we haven't been able to see with our time you'll be able to understand those patterns and

592
00:50:38,395 --> 00:50:47,555
So in other words, it's a massive productivity enhancement. It's like orders of magnitude from

593
00:50:47,555 --> 00:50:53,775
going from a shovel to a steam shovel, right? Massive productivity improvements that allow you

594
00:50:53,775 --> 00:51:02,015
to do way more for less, see more things, solve problems faster. But we are super, we're higher

595
00:51:02,015 --> 00:51:07,955
than it. We're the supercomputer. It's just a tool of productivity, a staggering tool of

596
00:51:07,955 --> 00:51:17,575
productivity. And unless you believe the way that you said, then you would be worried about

597
00:51:17,575 --> 00:51:28,435
the AIs that are controlled by Tesla or Google or DeepSea, which would eventually be controlled

598
00:51:28,435 --> 00:51:33,975
by the government if they're not already. That would have to happen, right? Because they're

599
00:51:33,975 --> 00:51:42,835
only allowed domain to work inside a country that gains its powers from its citizens, from that

600
00:51:42,835 --> 00:51:50,055
system. So those would be taken, right, by the government for sure. They would be centralized.

601
00:51:50,955 --> 00:51:55,175
And so if you think this system is this super intelligence that's over you,

602
00:51:55,835 --> 00:52:02,395
and it looks like that to you instead of in service to you, you'll probably be more and more

603
00:52:02,395 --> 00:52:05,255
afraid of that and you'll probably make it happen more.

604
00:52:06,655 --> 00:52:12,775
So do you think that all the sort of semi-pseudo Bitcoiners out there that are buying things like

605
00:52:12,775 --> 00:52:16,635
MicroStrategy instead of Bitcoin are still just living in Fiatland and don't understand what's

606
00:52:16,635 --> 00:52:24,595
really happening here? I don't want to say that because I still now I'm exiting Canada.

607
00:52:25,455 --> 00:52:25,815
Oh, are you?

608
00:52:25,815 --> 00:52:37,835
Yeah, and more on that. We can talk more about it. But I still have RSPs because there are tax

609
00:52:37,835 --> 00:52:45,255
and those RSPs, and I might not for much longer, but those RSPs are in, nor TFSA.

610
00:52:45,515 --> 00:53:00,063
In Canada there tax rules that I still have I bought MicroStrategy a long time ago Now would never only only do MicroStrategy I convince everybody to or tell everybody have to get into self Bitcoin run a node anything else

611
00:53:00,063 --> 00:53:07,623
But if they wanted to have something in that, to each their own.

612
00:53:08,343 --> 00:53:12,962
I do think if people think that the returns forever will be way higher there,

613
00:53:12,962 --> 00:53:20,023
you'll have a bunch of more companies that will race in and lower their standards.

614
00:53:20,823 --> 00:53:23,143
It'll drive a massive hype cycle.

615
00:53:24,162 --> 00:53:27,323
And then probably the next down on the other side,

616
00:53:27,442 --> 00:53:31,883
all the broken bodies unwinding because they levered too much

617
00:53:31,883 --> 00:53:34,543
is going to be horrific for a bunch of those companies

618
00:53:34,543 --> 00:53:37,143
as they start selling their Bitcoin into the market

619
00:53:37,143 --> 00:53:41,563
at the same time they can't sell their Bitcoin and prices down.

620
00:53:41,563 --> 00:53:49,242
So it's going to be interesting to watch animal spirits on these things. Um, and, and I think,

621
00:53:49,242 --> 00:53:57,462
uh, and so again, it just goes back to that self custody, um, that, that people I would recommend

622
00:53:57,462 --> 00:54:04,023
them do it doing, but I can see a lot of people first and easier way they think to get in is this

623
00:54:04,023 --> 00:54:11,162
way. And then they, um, then they get rug pulled later on. Yeah, that makes, I could do a hundred

624
00:54:11,162 --> 00:54:16,102
100% see that future coming. So you're voting with your feet, voting with your money and

625
00:54:16,102 --> 00:54:17,402
potentially leaving Canada?

626
00:54:17,402 --> 00:54:20,402
Yeah, I'm going through the process right now.

627
00:54:20,402 --> 00:54:23,702
Are you going to say where you're going or are you keeping that a secret?

628
00:54:23,702 --> 00:54:32,063
Yeah, I can't say where I'm going right now, but I'm, let's say 90% right now, I'm doing

629
00:54:32,063 --> 00:54:41,023
the work to make that, to see if that's a viable option or when that's a viable option.

630
00:54:41,023 --> 00:54:44,602
And why is that? Is that because you see this kind of dystopian hellscape that we were talking

631
00:54:44,602 --> 00:54:46,102
about earlier coming to Canada?

632
00:54:46,102 --> 00:54:52,782
Yeah, I just see, if I look at Canada where it's going, I just see that we're

633
00:54:52,782 --> 00:55:02,282
on the wrong path. Some countries are going to do a lot more printing, and convince a

634
00:55:02,282 --> 00:55:11,282
society that freedoms are going to be harder to define. Those countries will face wealth

635
00:55:11,282 --> 00:55:19,143
taxes, those confiscatory taxes, a whole bunch of things that will happen. And unfortunately,

636
00:55:19,143 --> 00:55:24,962
you can see citizens in those countries voting for more of that because they don't know what's

637
00:55:24,962 --> 00:55:25,962
actually happening.

638
00:55:25,962 --> 00:55:31,363
So there's this sort of like constant degradation in most Western countries at

639
00:55:31,363 --> 00:55:35,202
the moment, which areas of the world do you think will benefit most from this transition?

640
00:55:36,802 --> 00:55:43,302
I think the global south, which has been extracted from for hundreds of years,

641
00:55:44,102 --> 00:55:51,722
right? More than that. But I think that many of those countries, maybe not the country,

642
00:55:51,863 --> 00:55:57,782
maybe not the dictator or whoever in the country, but many of the citizens themselves in those

643
00:55:57,782 --> 00:56:02,383
countries. And you see, you see this too, you've been to some of these regions with me and you see

644
00:56:02,383 --> 00:56:07,543
these circular economies popping up and these people are, are on a new system and they're

645
00:56:07,543 --> 00:56:13,123
emerging. They're, they're, they've freed themselves from the same thing. And that's,

646
00:56:13,182 --> 00:56:18,942
that's why this is true for every single human being on the planet. If they knew they can move

647
00:56:18,942 --> 00:56:25,162
time and energy into the new system without, um, um, and they can't be stopped.

648
00:56:25,982 --> 00:56:28,823
And they actually have the most to gain in that, in the sense that, as you say, they're

649
00:56:28,823 --> 00:56:29,982
just constantly extracted from.

650
00:56:30,102 --> 00:56:34,043
We're the beneficiaries of that in the West, but when you're under that rule, you have

651
00:56:34,043 --> 00:56:36,722
so much to gain by moving out of that system and moving to Bitcoin.

652
00:56:37,202 --> 00:56:41,582
Yeah, and I've said this on many podcasts in the past, but if you think about how technology

653
00:56:41,582 --> 00:56:50,202
evolves, it's always the new entrant, and in this case, it's even more powerful because

654
00:56:50,202 --> 00:56:57,002
this as a protocol, but let's just assume it was just a technology. So a difference there just for

655
00:56:57,002 --> 00:57:04,863
protocols are winner take all. Technologies are winner take most. And so, but new technologies,

656
00:57:05,282 --> 00:57:12,582
where did they emerge first, right? What typically happens is a monopoly, the biggest company pre

657
00:57:12,582 --> 00:57:21,863
pre-the technology, never uses the technology. They try to block it, they try to stop it. And why?

658
00:57:21,863 --> 00:57:28,182
Because they're the monopoly, they have all the power. But the further away from the monopoly you

659
00:57:28,182 --> 00:57:36,023
are, who has little power, they always go first and they build and it disrupts from the outside

660
00:57:36,023 --> 00:57:41,702
in. The creative destruction, Joseph Schumpeter talked about it, and that's what's happening.

661
00:57:41,702 --> 00:57:51,702
And now if you just said the monopoly of money, most of the people that watch your podcast are at the top of the monopoly of money game.

662
00:57:52,502 --> 00:57:56,882
So at the bottom of that game, there's people that there's a greater incentive.

663
00:57:57,202 --> 00:58:00,482
They're further away from the monopoly and they go first.

664
00:58:00,722 --> 00:58:02,582
And so that's what's happening.

665
00:58:02,922 --> 00:58:09,702
That's why through that lens, it's really easy to see why El Salvador was the first country that went to Bitcoin standard.

666
00:58:09,702 --> 00:58:16,302
yeah it makes sense i'm glad like every six months or so i need just my fill of jeff booth to kind of

667
00:58:16,302 --> 00:58:21,202
lock back in because when when you explain this to me it does make sense but it's very hard to

668
00:58:21,202 --> 00:58:26,462
carry that through to like the rest of your life like i'll i'll go out and i'll live in fiatland

669
00:58:26,462 --> 00:58:32,682
again at some point and uh i really enjoy getting you just to kind of hold me back in it's uh um

670
00:58:32,682 --> 00:58:37,882
but i think that that's a really good takeaway i think that's a good takeaway for anybody listening

671
00:58:37,882 --> 00:58:43,782
to this because that's the normal thing that people would do right you're you know this is true

672
00:58:43,782 --> 00:58:49,163
and then and then what happens for even for people that aren't in bitcoin at all right now

673
00:58:49,163 --> 00:58:56,523
what they go they'll go to is they'll think okay i need to do this but then have fear about how do

674
00:58:56,523 --> 00:59:02,902
i start where do i start how do i do and then they'll stay in fiat land right if things will

675
00:59:02,902 --> 00:59:07,843
get worse and worse and worse and they'll see another podcast two years later and then they

676
00:59:07,843 --> 00:59:15,082
might do the same thing again right and they'll do and so it just takes um it takes starting with

677
00:59:15,082 --> 00:59:20,722
something if you're spending 100 of your time in fiat land right now spend one percent in bitcoin

678
00:59:20,722 --> 00:59:26,563
just get curious if you're spending one percent and two percent then four percent then eight

679
00:59:26,563 --> 00:59:32,382
percent and you'll notice you'll feel it just like you you feel it danny the every time you

680
00:59:32,382 --> 00:59:39,222
move more time, your time is more valuable. It comes back to you. It's just a mirror. It just

681
00:59:39,222 --> 00:59:42,902
comes straight back to you and that your time is more valuable and you're giving your energy.

682
00:59:43,563 --> 00:59:47,182
Instead of having your energy extracted to feed this other system,

683
00:59:47,363 --> 00:59:52,782
you're truly choosing to give your energy to the system that has to give back to you.

684
00:59:54,102 --> 00:59:59,462
I mean, and that's, so I've taken your time on a Sunday here and I really appreciate you,

685
00:59:59,462 --> 01:00:04,843
doing this. You've been busy taking money from the old system to invest in the new Bitcoin system.

686
01:00:04,922 --> 01:00:10,402
You just raised $100 million. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. First of all, that's insane. Is that

687
01:00:10,402 --> 01:00:14,462
the largest Bitcoin fund ever? It is. Bitcoin only fund ever.

688
01:00:15,323 --> 01:00:20,643
And what's your plan with that? Where are you looking? Where do you think the interesting

689
01:00:20,643 --> 01:00:27,762
things are? So what I would say is, you know, the last one we did, I think it was 26.2 million.

690
01:00:27,762 --> 01:00:30,023
than we did in SPV for seven and a half.

691
01:00:30,222 --> 01:00:32,802
So just over 35 million,

692
01:00:32,902 --> 01:00:34,802
about 35 million in the first fund.

693
01:00:35,363 --> 01:00:37,242
But at that time, Bitcoin was,

694
01:00:37,482 --> 01:00:38,863
at least as a protocol,

695
01:00:39,043 --> 01:00:40,163
lightning, liquid,

696
01:00:40,942 --> 01:00:42,802
Fetamint, a whole bunch of other stuff.

697
01:00:42,882 --> 01:00:44,502
It was just so, so early

698
01:00:44,502 --> 01:00:46,942
that you needed to spend time

699
01:00:46,942 --> 01:00:49,202
and help these companies mature.

700
01:00:50,002 --> 01:00:51,702
And the thesis was,

701
01:00:52,123 --> 01:00:54,262
this would start to evolve

702
01:00:54,262 --> 01:00:56,023
and these second layers

703
01:00:56,023 --> 01:00:57,722
and third layers

704
01:00:57,722 --> 01:01:03,202
would evolve and you'd have this ecosystem that would spread and then the velocity would increase

705
01:01:03,202 --> 01:01:13,902
from there. That's exactly what's happened. What's happened is in that fund, I'm not saying we won't,

706
01:01:14,382 --> 01:01:22,623
but we don't have a company that's failed. That is unreal for start-up venture capital,

707
01:01:22,623 --> 01:01:25,242
seed stage venture capital without a company-

708
01:01:25,242 --> 01:01:27,843
You'd normally be looking at like one in 10 that would succeed.

709
01:01:28,222 --> 01:01:29,623
One in 10 would succeed.

710
01:01:30,382 --> 01:01:37,242
So to not have any companies that fail, one that's already going through an acquisition,

711
01:01:37,602 --> 01:01:41,422
two that are already very, very profitable and growing extraordinarily fast,

712
01:01:41,422 --> 01:01:44,602
and a bunch of others that are kind of chasing those.

713
01:01:45,742 --> 01:01:53,262
It makes sense that Series A fund, bigger funds, would now start seeing what's happening

714
01:01:53,262 --> 01:01:59,023
and this ecosystem would be heating up and there'd be a whole bunch of value being created

715
01:01:59,023 --> 01:02:07,343
and more capital would chase companies that are winning and more of this ecosystem.

716
01:02:07,922 --> 01:02:09,442
So that's all that's happened, right?

717
01:02:10,962 --> 01:02:16,282
But it also describes how painful, how crazy early we are in this

718
01:02:16,282 --> 01:02:21,202
because the majority of capital is still going into crypto and other nonsense.

719
01:02:21,202 --> 01:02:28,882
sense. But this capital is, actually this came from one of our company founders and I loved it.

720
01:02:28,882 --> 01:02:37,523
And he's in, they were in Venezuela. And he said, what would it be like if you just held dollars,

721
01:02:37,523 --> 01:02:42,722
U.S. dollars, if you were in Venezuela? You would escape the currency devaluation and you look,

722
01:02:42,722 --> 01:02:49,442
because then what would it look like if you built a company creating more U.S. dollars in Venezuela?

723
01:02:49,442 --> 01:02:55,422
right now you have something real um you have something that's that your balance sheet is

724
01:02:55,422 --> 01:03:00,982
growing in dollars and you're not just protecting a currency devaluation you're building value in

725
01:03:00,982 --> 01:03:08,182
the free market now every single person today except for bitcoiners live in venezuela they

726
01:03:08,182 --> 01:03:14,623
just don't know it and a lot of those bitcoiners that live in venezuela are just holding

727
01:03:14,623 --> 01:03:21,302
What if they're building companies that are adding more balance to their balance sheet

728
01:03:21,302 --> 01:03:26,702
by extending the free market? That's what's happening in venture capital. That's what's

729
01:03:26,702 --> 01:03:31,462
happening in these companies. And you still have to be right. There's more risk there

730
01:03:31,462 --> 01:03:39,563
than just buying Bitcoin. But there's also potentially incredible return because you're

731
01:03:39,563 --> 01:03:44,282
building. The only way you can create more Bitcoin on your balance sheet is to create

732
01:03:44,282 --> 01:03:50,202
more value in somebody else's eyes and the free market on top of Bitcoin. And by doing so,

733
01:03:50,982 --> 01:03:57,043
you extend both the free market and the things that are building and all the more value that's

734
01:03:57,043 --> 01:04:01,942
coming on top of Bitcoin, but you're also building a balance sheet in Bitcoin.

735
01:04:02,762 --> 01:04:06,843
Are there enough good early stage Bitcoin companies to actually deploy $100 million?

736
01:04:06,843 --> 01:04:15,843
dollars. Yes, simply yes. We've been blown away by how much opportunity there is.

737
01:04:18,163 --> 01:04:23,922
It's wild when you're in here. And this is actually why I would, the same thing

738
01:04:23,922 --> 01:04:30,262
we were talking about before. I wouldn't have known this unless I moved all my time into it.

739
01:04:31,182 --> 01:04:35,823
I would have actually thought the same thing that most people are spending looking at this just from

740
01:04:35,823 --> 01:04:40,823
the sidelines and saying, oh, it's moving too slow, or there's nobody using it as payments.

741
01:04:41,343 --> 01:04:45,823
If you're inside the other world and you're spending all your time there,

742
01:04:45,982 --> 01:04:53,302
you wouldn't see how fast this is developing. But that also provides the opportunity for people too,

743
01:04:53,802 --> 01:04:58,302
because they could go to meetups, they could go to see other people, they could just spend more

744
01:04:58,302 --> 01:05:04,902
time. And by spending more time, they'll be infected because there's so much other opportunity

745
01:05:04,902 --> 01:05:11,382
here. I almost feel embarrassed, Jeff, that I've got the price of Bitcoin in dollars behind me this

746
01:05:11,382 --> 01:05:15,023
entire show. I just need to change that. So it just says one Bitcoin equals one Bitcoin.

747
01:05:17,742 --> 01:05:23,163
But I massively appreciate the time. Thank you for taking an hour out of your Sunday to do this.

748
01:05:23,482 --> 01:05:26,543
I'm going to see you in a month in Bali as well. We'll go for a serve.

749
01:05:27,323 --> 01:05:30,602
That's going to be awesome. So where do people find you, Jeff? You're not really on Twitter

750
01:05:30,602 --> 01:05:36,942
anymore. Are you NOSTA only now? Yeah, I'm NOSTA only. And I'm NOSTA only for the very same reason.

751
01:05:36,942 --> 01:05:43,623
If you know where AI is going, if you know where AI already is, and you're in a centralized system

752
01:05:43,623 --> 01:05:50,082
with AI, and that's where you're getting all your information, you are being farmed.

753
01:05:50,922 --> 01:05:55,442
Are you actually, I've been closing out the show, but I should ask you about NOSTA. Are you going

754
01:05:55,442 --> 01:06:02,082
invest in any NOSTA companies with ego death? So we haven't seen anything yet that, uh, there's,

755
01:06:02,163 --> 01:06:07,023
uh, there's some good, uh, there's some good companies, but we haven't seen anything that,

756
01:06:07,023 --> 01:06:17,082
that, um, right metrics, right valuation, right, uh, um, uh, right company, uh, yet we've looked

757
01:06:17,082 --> 01:06:22,663
at a whole bunch. Um, the new fund is a series a fund, so they'd have to be further along.

758
01:06:22,663 --> 01:06:28,823
I see okay and just remember why that's so hard though in the free market it because because

759
01:06:28,823 --> 01:06:35,043
Noster is at the protocol that means any client on top of it can be another client can be spun up

760
01:06:35,043 --> 01:06:40,843
tomorrow another one the next day that next day the next day so if you created a huge moat

761
01:06:40,843 --> 01:06:50,563
and you were extracting a whole bunch of margin you would have a competitor day two day three day

762
01:06:50,563 --> 01:06:56,602
because you so so but that's how all of things look on bitcoin so you have to really be thoughtful

763
01:06:56,602 --> 01:07:05,043
and how am i going to give enduring value to users and make a little bit over over uh over

764
01:07:05,043 --> 01:07:10,502
time from that and so it's just that you have to be very thoughtful in your in your creation of uh

765
01:07:10,502 --> 01:07:14,782
of what that model looks like and then you're going to have to constantly innovate to deliver

766
01:07:14,782 --> 01:07:21,663
more value. I think there's lots of exciting things coming through Nostr and the integration

767
01:07:21,663 --> 01:07:27,502
of Nostr and Lightning and Fetiment or Cashew. There's lots of different things coming, but it's

768
01:07:27,502 --> 01:07:33,262
just we haven't seen anything yet that we've pulled the trigger on. But obviously, this was

769
01:07:33,262 --> 01:07:36,302
a fund for Bitcoin companies. You'd still be open to doing Nostr investments.

770
01:07:36,782 --> 01:07:43,543
Oh, of course. Yeah. I'm very pro Nostr. Yeah. That's very cool. I mean, I've been spending more

771
01:07:43,543 --> 01:07:49,462
more time there and like it's just getting better and better. Like the UI of everything is improved

772
01:07:49,462 --> 01:07:54,343
so much in the last couple of years. I think we, I do feel like we're waiting for sort of the killer

773
01:07:54,343 --> 01:08:00,262
Noster app though. Yeah. And I think that the killer Noster app isn't, I don't think it, it

774
01:08:00,262 --> 01:08:07,143
won't look like most people are thinking it right now. It won't come from, um, a Twitter clone.

775
01:08:07,782 --> 01:08:12,502
I agree. Totally agree. It won't come, it won't come from a YouTube clone. It'll come from

776
01:08:12,502 --> 01:08:17,303
something that's integrated that does this plus this plus something over here that creates a new

777
01:08:17,303 --> 01:08:23,623
space, new design space that we don't know yet. Yeah. I actually think white noise is really

778
01:08:23,623 --> 01:08:27,922
interesting. You know, they're doing this sort of encrypted chat signal like chat, but with NOSTA

779
01:08:27,922 --> 01:08:32,362
connections. I think that's cool. But I totally agree that I don't think the Twitter clone,

780
01:08:32,523 --> 01:08:35,583
I think it's very hard to beat a centralized system in that way if you're just copying it.

781
01:08:35,663 --> 01:08:42,183
I think you need to do something new. Yeah. And why is that, right? Because the new company has

782
01:08:42,183 --> 01:08:44,602
or the new company or new protocol

783
01:08:44,602 --> 01:08:47,083
or it has to deliver 10 times more value.

784
01:08:48,143 --> 01:08:49,542
Because of network effects.

785
01:08:49,803 --> 01:08:50,742
Because of the network effect.

786
01:08:50,842 --> 01:08:52,242
To overcome that network effect,

787
01:08:52,882 --> 01:08:54,623
everybody, people don't change

788
01:08:54,623 --> 01:08:57,203
for a little bit of value.

789
01:08:57,723 --> 01:08:59,742
And if the new company has to market

790
01:08:59,742 --> 01:09:00,663
to all those people

791
01:09:00,663 --> 01:09:02,223
and you're spending money marketing,

792
01:09:02,742 --> 01:09:06,703
right, you can't pull enough people away

793
01:09:06,703 --> 01:09:08,183
on a marketing budget.

794
01:09:08,422 --> 01:09:09,223
That's why you have to,

795
01:09:09,322 --> 01:09:11,643
it has to provide such compelling value.

796
01:09:11,643 --> 01:09:18,223
That's why I use 10 times more value than anything else to have a massive acceleration.

797
01:09:18,703 --> 01:09:22,723
Because then it's not the marketing that you're telling people you're better.

798
01:09:23,023 --> 01:09:25,602
The product is that much better in somebody's life.

799
01:09:26,942 --> 01:09:31,143
And unless we get like a crazy amount of censorship, I don't see how that wins.

800
01:09:31,563 --> 01:09:32,782
So that's the point.

801
01:09:32,982 --> 01:09:39,002
So most people through all of the, if you think about all of the bots and everything else,

802
01:09:39,002 --> 01:09:41,203
and even with all of that

803
01:09:41,203 --> 01:09:46,502
and the censorship that you know is in X,

804
01:09:46,703 --> 01:09:49,203
that you know your likes and everything else

805
01:09:49,203 --> 01:09:51,623
are being oversubscribed to make it look like,

806
01:09:51,623 --> 01:09:52,862
appear that you're seeing,

807
01:09:53,002 --> 01:09:54,322
being seen by more people,

808
01:09:54,723 --> 01:09:56,782
you know all of these things exist

809
01:09:56,782 --> 01:09:59,583
and it still feels like this other thing

810
01:09:59,583 --> 01:10:01,002
for most people isn't 10X.

811
01:10:01,163 --> 01:10:02,523
It might already be 10X.

812
01:10:04,462 --> 01:10:06,822
It's just they would do people to realize

813
01:10:06,822 --> 01:10:07,882
that it's 10X better

814
01:10:07,882 --> 01:10:09,782
where it needs to be.

815
01:10:10,703 --> 01:10:11,862
Yeah, I totally agree.

816
01:10:11,982 --> 01:10:12,882
Jeff, this has been amazing.

817
01:10:13,063 --> 01:10:13,803
Thank you for this.

818
01:10:13,902 --> 01:10:14,842
I really appreciate it.

819
01:10:15,123 --> 01:10:16,462
And I'm looking forward to hanging out

820
01:10:16,462 --> 01:10:17,542
in a few weeks time.

821
01:10:17,882 --> 01:10:18,362
Yeah, me too.

822
01:10:19,183 --> 01:10:19,462
Cool.

823
01:10:19,703 --> 01:10:20,242
Thank you, Jeff.

824
01:10:20,703 --> 01:10:21,023
You bet.

825
01:10:21,223 --> 01:10:21,542
See you, buddy.