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Maybe it's time to kill your heroes again, and Saylor is now the hero to slay in this cycle.

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Why did the market react in terms of just emotions, but also price action for 32 Bitcoin sold?

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And why didn't anything happen when he sold 700?

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It was because, in my opinion, because of the narrative engineering that Saylor was doing.

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Somebody like Sailor or anybody who chooses to engineer their narrative in a way can actually control markets.

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Bitcoin is so many different things that you can literally have a great argument for Bitcoin to somebody who is on the extreme far right and also the extreme far left.

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So the customization of Bitcoin is actually pretty cool.

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And that will lead to a lot of people from different walks of life to understand Bitcoin in a very deep way and be completely convinced about it.

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So that's great.

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That's like bullish.

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good to see you man um we're going to talk all about bitcoin narratives across the board breaking

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down no one knowing which way is up with it anymore like it's funny just before we started

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recording i was scrolling through twitter and like i've seen three posts that like is bitcoin

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dead is bitcoin over like i feel like we've lost the narrative but i think there's nothing more

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apparent as of right now as to where a narrative has either been broken or lost in everything that's

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happened with michael saylor and yesterday you just dropped a big piece on this um and it has

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been really interesting to see his messaging change over time so do you want to start i'll

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just leave it open for you you pick where you want to jump in like what what you notice when

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you kind of dug through all of the data around the things that michael saylor has been saying

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well you know first of all i think you know when um when strategy sold 32 bitcoin and uh you know

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the reaction that everybody had, not only in like the market and the price action, but just like on Twitter and on socials.

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And everybody has kind of like come to this realization that, OK, maybe it's time to kill your heroes again.

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And Sailor is now the hero to slay in this cycle.

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And I was like, it's interesting that people react like that after the fact, you know.

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Obviously, there are people who have been critical of Sailor and strategy.

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you know there's like this section or like this cohort of bitcoiners who are like anti-sootcoiner

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that that that has always been part of this but then it's like there's a lot of other people as

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well that like really were had a problem with what was happening and they were kind of like freaking

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out and i was like what's up with that like why do people always react after something has happened

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you know and are there any indicators that some signals before anything happened that might have

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giving us a clue in terms of whether Saylor has changed his mind or if he had started doing,

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saying something that was an indicator of something else. I was like, okay,

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I just let my agents run through the Perception MCP. For people who don't know, Perception is my

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company. So essentially what we do is like we track thousands of sources when it comes to discourse

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in the entire digital asset industry. So tweets, LinkedIn posts, the filings, white papers,

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transcripts from conferences, podcasts, everything, you name it. And I was like,

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okay, let me just like run my agents through the MCP and just

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track, you know, all of Saylor's tweets, interviews, conference

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panels, whatever he was talking about and say, hey, were there any

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clues before like the 32 Bitcoin

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sell or anything else might have been some kind of a

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leading indicator of like where things were going to go instead of

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like reacting on a, on a, something that's already happened. So I essentially told my agents to just

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go back to 2020 up until today. And just like, give me, just give me a whole like analysis on

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like everything that Sailor has said and whether there's a word or two words or three words that

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keeps repeating or like, has he actually had a narrative that was planned and structured and,

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and kind of like on purpose throughout this, these years. And, you know, it was kind of clear when,

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when, you know, the analysis came back that, okay, and there's like three phases from 2020 till today

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that was like, okay, the first four years after strategy first announced that they were buying

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Bitcoin in 2020, up until 2024, there was just like this, I don't know, there's like Bitcoin maxi,

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anti-fiat maxi uh type of narrative and kind of like propaganda because and i say propaganda

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because the way that sailor was was saying things was in a very kind of like i don't know as a

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calculated mode but it was like very it seems very on purpose he kept repeating the same

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talking points and also used the same type of words over and over again so i was like that is

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pretty interesting. And then

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after 2024

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entering 2025

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things started to change

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with the introduction of the term

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credit. And

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credit in the

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first cycle of 2020

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to 2024 was

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mentioned, but it was mentioned in a very

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negative way. It was mentioned as like, okay

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this is fiat shit. This is

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like not good. Credit is bad. You should

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just hold Bitcoin.

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So obviously he was

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trying to appeal or maybe pander to like the Bitcoin, you know, mentality,

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trying to get them on board during these whole four years.

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And then started to like slowly switch over a little bit,

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like not as hardcore as the first four years,

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but it's like in 2025, there was like this little like transitional period

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where you started like switching things a little bit, like subtly, but it started.

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And then obviously you take a look at like what happened

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in terms of like product development or just like the offerings that strategy started to

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offer to the market around that time in 2024, 2025. And that's obviously, you know, when Stretch,

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when STRC got introduced and all of a sudden the credit language or the credit discourse started to switch into something more positive And then 2026 came and he started talking about derivatives and just like completely went to the other side

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And I know that at this time, there was some people that started to question this, but it wasn't really noticeable.

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It was some people that was like against this, like, what is this whole credit, you know, paper Bitcoin, anti-suit coiners.

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They were speaking up, but the overall market wasn't really paying attention until Sailor or Strategy sold the 32 Bitcoin.

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And I was like, this whole upheaval happened, which also had this like market correction, this market reaction as well.

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And I'm saying this because in this whole 2020 to 2026 cycle where these three phases happen, there was a time in 2022 where a strategy sold 700 plus Bitcoin and the market didn't react.

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Nobody said anything and the price didn't do anything.

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It's 700 plus Bitcoin.

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I forget exactly how much Bitcoin exactly, but it was definitely way more than 32.

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Now, why did the market react in terms of just emotions, but also price action for 32 Bitcoin sold? And why didn't anything happen when he sold 700? It was because, in my opinion, because of the narrative engineering that Saylor was doing.

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So 2022, the 700 Bitcoin was just like, okay, he's like tax harvesting.

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There's just some other people had like other, not excuses, but like they had a, they were rationalizing it.

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Whereas when he, when Saylor or Strategy sold 32, it was already a problem with the narrative that Saylor had done when he started to change a year before.

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And that to me is extremely interesting to, to, to me, that's like proof that, you know, narratives.

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is one factor that drives markets.

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It all has to do with the emotion of people,

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how they react to certain actions unfolding.

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And somebody like Sailor

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or anybody who chooses to engineer their narrative

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in a way can actually control markets,

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subconsciously or not.

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But narratives has a very important part

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when it comes to how people react

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and how people feel about something.

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So I thought that was pretty interesting.

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and I think that's kind of the biggest takeaway from the report.

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one of the most interesting things about the narratives that Saylor drives,

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because they've been incredibly powerful,

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is it started, like the first one I remember is the sort of melting ice cube.

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The melting ice cube of fiat money he was sat on,

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so he turned his treasure into Bitcoin.

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And then there was the sort of Manhattan real estate,

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there was digital energy.

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And it felt like all of the initial narratives

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were kind of very positive for Bitcoin.

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And then the reason I've never liked the digital credit one

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is it's always been like Bitcoin's not enough on its own without me giving this other product.

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And so I feel like there's been a bit of a disconnect on the narrative there.

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And then the other interesting thing about this is I remember I had Fong Lee on the podcast.

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I think it was about October-ish time last year.

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And he said on the show, I asked him if they would sell Bitcoin.

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And he said, yes, they would.

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And when he said that, I thought that was just like a fiduciary duty thing that he had to say he would

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because at some point he may have to and he has to say that that is an option.

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But the more I think about it, the more I wonder if it was just like it was sowing the seeds of this new narrative.

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I don't know.

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And it just been interesting to see it go from being in my opinion very very pro to being like pro and sometimes like saying Bitcoin not enough Like we need to add these new layers on top of it for

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it to become money-like. And that's kind of, I think, where I've fallen out with this whole thing.

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And I think there's a lot of Bitcoiners in the same boat. Yeah. And I think, you know,

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I mentioned Fang Li as well in the report, because, you know, when the 32 Bitcoin got sold,

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You know, he bought back a lot of shares as well.

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And so there was kind of like, and these things are filed publicly as well.

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And that is, you know, even though it's not necessarily a verbal message, it is still a message that is publicly filed that should be kind of like a thing that people pick up on.

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That kind of like went unnoticed.

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It didn't help at all.

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like MSTR still crashed and it was like,

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nobody cared that this actual CEO bought back a significant amount of shares

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while the price was crashing.

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So that means that, you know,

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when a certain narrative has been solid and has, you know, over time,

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and in this case, you know, from 2020 to 2024,

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four year cycle of like having a very hard narrative,

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kind of like rooting, when that gets uprooted, like nothing helps.

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Nothing you say afterwards will help.

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And that's like how big narratives actually is.

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And, you know, you can speculate.

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I mean, obviously there's a lot of like, you can reason your way out of this and say, hey, you know, business is business.

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Things change.

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Times change.

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And you want to adapt.

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You want to, you know, try out new things.

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And also for Sailor, it's kind of like a learning curve as well, right?

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Like even before 2020, he had tweets where he said, okay, Bitcoin is dead or has no future.

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And obviously he changed his mind on that as well.

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So, I mean, all of those things are allowed, obviously, but it's just interesting to have data on that right now that is quantitative.

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And you can actually, you can pinpoint to a place where like, okay, he's changing his narrative right now.

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And you can speculate on like, okay, why is this happening right now?

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What has happened before he spoke up about it that is changing his mind or is changing his mind in real time?

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And obviously, we don't know, but I think it's extremely interesting to just have data on it.

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Like that's why I created Perception in the first place,

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because I don't feel that we don't have this service

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where we can actually catch a narrative changing in real time

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if you bother to look.

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The kind of like the consensus here is just to check the narrative

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after it's already been said and done,

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like everybody has with the reaction to the 32 Bitcoin being sold.

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So that's the cool part.

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It's language.

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It's not binary as code, so it's not black and white.

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You can only speculate and talk about it on the podcast.

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but I think it's just incredibly interesting narratives really move markets sometimes

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a hundred percent and and obviously like we've focused there on the strategy side but

217
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on the bitcoin side the narrative has changed a lot as well like when I came into bitcoin

218
00:15:34,868 --> 00:15:41,428
I don't get me wrong like I came for number go up but I stayed for freedom money and and bitcoin was

219
00:15:41,428 --> 00:15:47,488
like it was freedom money like this was a counterculture thing that was cool it was like

220
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end the fed it was punk rock like it was everything that like i wanted to find at the time that i found

221
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it and it's part of the reason that i fell completely in love with it and like never

222
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focused on anything since then essentially but like now i think because bitcoin's won so hard

223
00:16:02,808 --> 00:16:10,508
we and we've got everything that we talked about in 2016 2017 i feel like people aren't sure what

224
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the narrative is anymore because like and and to me like a real turning point is like the etf

225
00:16:17,268 --> 00:16:22,108
approval it's kind of that was something that bitcoin has been fighting for since 2014 when

226
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the wink of us first applied for an etf and it was like the thing that kind of knighted them and

227
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allowed them to come on with the wall street like finance bros and be a real big boy asset like they

228
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it got everything and then it's like now what we've won what what who are we anymore and i feel

229
00:16:39,108 --> 00:16:45,128
like that's something bitcoin's battling with right now 100 man and if there's so much to say

230
00:16:45,128 --> 00:16:51,328
about this uh let me try to just synthesize it and not have too long of a rant because i i i really

231
00:16:51,328 --> 00:16:57,328
really geek out about these things so yes i agree like i'm class of 2017 and the things that

232
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convicted me back then was just not what's being talked about right now definitely and we definitely

233
00:17:04,088 --> 00:17:09,388
have a situation right now like where the punk rock band you know from you know bushwick brooklyn

234
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all of a sudden is now playing at stadiums in in wembley london you know like we totally went

235
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mainstream and a lot of people don't like that you know like me too we've made the really shit third

236
00:17:18,948 --> 00:17:25,468
album exactly like the first album is like everything your whole life experience and it's

237
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amazing and then after that then what you know so we have already gone through that like first

238
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album where everything is fucking beautiful and it's packaged right and so many more people come

239
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along and then are we fizzling out right now because right now there's there's really no

240
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solid narratives to cling on and you know bear markets are for building narratives not only for

241
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building products it's for us to kind of like regroup and be like okay well what do we talk

242
00:17:50,768 --> 00:17:55,968
about now that can you know live on during the next bull i don't see any new narratives happening

243
00:17:55,968 --> 00:18:01,248
right now i don't see any memes happening right now and like the narratives and the meme culture

244
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i mean talk to any like real quote-unquote bitcoiner they will tell you like memes is so

245
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important for us to convince outsiders because it's a memetic culture is visual it cuts through

246
00:18:15,948 --> 00:18:20,648
a lot of the noise and you get it instantly you don't need to read any academic papers or white

247
00:18:20,648 --> 00:18:27,068
papers or any of that bullshit and if we don't have that then what are we what do we hold on to

248
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when we are ready for the next phase of adoption and more outsiders and normies are going to come

249
00:18:31,828 --> 00:18:36,588
into the realm so that's a i don't know if it's a problem but it's definitely different this cycle

250
00:18:36,588 --> 00:18:41,908
than before and i see a lot of other like bitcoiners who've been around for a while during

251
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this cycle kind of like first of all killing your heroes that's always the thing and that is also

252
00:18:47,828 --> 00:18:49,848
always based on narratives because your hero

253
00:18:49,848 --> 00:18:51,928
became a hero because of things that

254
00:18:51,928 --> 00:19:03,592
he said and then since where am i going with this uh the cypherpunk ethos is also kind of like

255
00:19:03,592 --> 00:19:10,352
dwindling out as well and we see like we are kind of like in a in a environment right now where

256
00:19:10,352 --> 00:19:16,692
there is no bitcoin culture or bitcoin community neither there's no and i know we're going to talk

257
00:19:16,692 --> 00:19:20,952
about monoculture but like there used to be a monoculture within bitcoin like a decade ago

258
00:19:20,952 --> 00:19:26,432
perhaps obviously within fighting still prevalent it has always been a thing because we are like

259
00:19:26,432 --> 00:19:30,912
decentralized we are kind of like chaotic in the way we organize so that's kind of part of the dna

260
00:19:30,912 --> 00:19:37,032
but there was like always a thing that made this a movement that a lot of people felt part of

261
00:19:37,032 --> 00:19:42,912
and now i think on a broader sense with just the internet being fragmented and the way we

262
00:19:42,912 --> 00:19:48,652
communicate with each other and taking information and educate ourselves is also fragmented because

263
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of just the internet has created thousands of voices,

264
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thousands of channels,

265
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and the incentives for a thought leader

266
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or an influencer or a podcaster

267
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is pretty much to just stay within one very niche subject

268
00:20:01,412 --> 00:20:04,032
and just double, triple down on that.

269
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So once you get caught in one of these niches,

270
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you kind of like, you get caught because you understand it.

271
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Like, let's say there's a podcast that is only about,

272
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I don't know, self-sovereignty, freedom,

273
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and all of those things.

274
00:20:16,732 --> 00:20:22,652
you're going to tune into that podcast if you share some of those beliefs before and then you're

275
00:20:22,652 --> 00:20:27,232
going to continue listening to that podcast and you know continue to go deeper into that rabbit

276
00:20:27,232 --> 00:20:31,772
hole and be completely convinced about the freedom aspect of bitcoin self-sovereignty self-custody

277
00:20:31,772 --> 00:20:37,872
all that but the same that same phenomenon is also going to happen on a separate like pocket

278
00:20:37,872 --> 00:20:43,492
of the internet where somebody who just wants no number go up all of a sudden is starting to

279
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discover Adam Livingston's of the world, right? The True North podcast, whatever. And they're

280
00:20:49,352 --> 00:20:53,672
going to be convinced because they have some preconceived beliefs about financial stuff.

281
00:20:54,052 --> 00:20:57,992
And they're going to understand Bitcoin from that perspective. And they're going to double and

282
00:20:57,992 --> 00:21:02,012
triple down and kind of go down that rabbit hole. And the way the internet is right now is like,

283
00:21:02,012 --> 00:21:05,732
these two pockets of the internet are not really talking to each other that much.

284
00:21:06,612 --> 00:21:11,412
And extrapolate that with like hundreds of pockets of the internet. So I think

285
00:21:11,412 --> 00:21:17,492
this is interesting right now because to me this is affecting bitcoin adoption this is kind of

286
00:21:17,492 --> 00:21:22,872
setting the stage for the next wave of adoption where there's no like one movement that's going

287
00:21:22,872 --> 00:21:27,972
to bring in a lot of people understanding bitcoin in one way there's going to be a lot of people

288
00:21:27,972 --> 00:21:31,592
coming in but it's going to be fragmented groups understanding bitcoin in very different ways

289
00:21:31,592 --> 00:21:36,532
and a lot of those ways are going to be extremely contradictory and they're going to be like

290
00:21:36,532 --> 00:21:37,732
opposite of each other.

291
00:21:38,052 --> 00:21:38,772
Is that good?

292
00:21:38,872 --> 00:21:39,432
Is that bad?

293
00:21:39,952 --> 00:21:40,412
I don't know.

294
00:21:40,512 --> 00:21:42,172
It is kind of like decentralized and cool, right?

295
00:21:42,212 --> 00:21:44,732
It's kind of like the same chaoticness of Bitcoin,

296
00:21:44,992 --> 00:21:46,192
which is part of our culture.

297
00:21:46,492 --> 00:21:47,972
But at the same time, it's a little bit weird

298
00:21:47,972 --> 00:21:51,672
because we're continuing to kind of go away

299
00:21:51,672 --> 00:21:54,752
from those things that convinced a lot of people

300
00:21:54,752 --> 00:21:55,392
in the very beginning.

301
00:21:55,792 --> 00:21:57,552
So I don't know if a lot of people are going to

302
00:21:57,552 --> 00:21:59,352
rage quit because of that

303
00:21:59,352 --> 00:22:02,692
or if Bitcoin is going to be very different

304
00:22:02,692 --> 00:22:05,092
because of how many different people are going to come in

305
00:22:05,092 --> 00:22:08,092
and not really get the 360 degree view

306
00:22:08,092 --> 00:22:10,272
of all the awesome things that Bitcoin represents.

307
00:22:10,852 --> 00:22:12,152
I don't know if this is good or bad.

308
00:22:12,232 --> 00:22:12,452
I don't know.

309
00:22:12,492 --> 00:22:12,852
What do you think?

310
00:22:13,872 --> 00:22:16,132
I don't like, I find this really hard

311
00:22:16,132 --> 00:22:19,232
because when I came into Bitcoin 2016,

312
00:22:20,152 --> 00:22:22,992
like I was really only ever on Bitcoin Twitter,

313
00:22:23,692 --> 00:22:25,832
a little bit on sort of the Reddit,

314
00:22:25,992 --> 00:22:27,172
but I think really most of the people

315
00:22:27,172 --> 00:22:28,852
who were on the Reddit were also on Bitcoin Twitter.

316
00:22:28,852 --> 00:22:31,192
And it did feel like a monoculture in a lot of ways.

317
00:22:31,192 --> 00:22:36,992
like it felt like this sort of inside group that knew a secret that no one else knew and everyone

318
00:22:36,992 --> 00:22:41,812
just wanted to meme and talk all day and bullshit and during this whole time like don't get me wrong

319
00:22:41,812 --> 00:22:46,312
i was really new so i i i didn't understand the full complexity of like the block size walls

320
00:22:46,312 --> 00:22:51,652
everything that was going on but there was still infighting it's just like but it still happened in

321
00:22:51,652 --> 00:22:55,912
one place it felt like a sort of clubhouse that everyone went to to talk about this thing that we

322
00:22:55,912 --> 00:23:01,592
knew existed and no one else did. And then, like you say, that's fragmented so much. I think

323
00:23:01,592 --> 00:23:07,092
the sort of orange tie suit coin of Bitcoiners are entirely different. They represent like a

324
00:23:07,092 --> 00:23:11,452
different subset of Bitcoiners. They don't really talk to the sort of the freedom maximalist

325
00:23:11,452 --> 00:23:15,932
Bitcoiners who don't really talk to like the Bit.110 people who might not talk to the ordinal

326
00:23:15,932 --> 00:23:21,092
guys. Like it has been totally fragmented. And I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing,

327
00:23:21,092 --> 00:23:30,372
But what I do worry about is like how without a sort of monoculture within Bitcoin, how you push Bitcoin adoption as wide as we need to push it.

328
00:23:30,472 --> 00:23:32,132
That's my big open question.

329
00:23:33,352 --> 00:23:33,812
Yeah, man.

330
00:23:33,872 --> 00:23:41,472
And it's like it's kind of like the way that I I I've been kind of like saying Bitcoin is not for everyone for a while.

331
00:23:42,092 --> 00:23:45,092
And that's that's pretty much my reasoning behind it.

332
00:23:45,132 --> 00:23:47,152
It's just like it's not it's not for everyone.

333
00:23:47,152 --> 00:23:48,332
I mean, it is for anyone.

334
00:23:48,332 --> 00:23:51,832
Like anyone is welcome if you kind of like understand it your way.

335
00:23:52,932 --> 00:23:55,072
But it's just like a lot of people are not going to get it.

336
00:23:55,632 --> 00:24:16,532
And I think another reality like in this internet age that we are living in, like the last 20 years, I would say not only did everything started to fragment 20 years ago and is as fragmented as ever today, but that has also changed our habits a little bit in terms of personalization.

337
00:24:16,532 --> 00:24:22,592
so it's like uh you can now personalize your feed you can now personalize like if you if you buy a

338
00:24:22,592 --> 00:24:29,232
car you can personalize the color the wheels the everything is personalized so that leads to a

339
00:24:29,232 --> 00:24:34,532
change in like consumer behavior where everybody expects things to be customized we're seeing this

340
00:24:34,532 --> 00:24:39,872
now in ai on on the business side of things we're like hey if you are selling a dashboard these days

341
00:24:39,872 --> 00:24:44,792
you're dead like everybody's creating their own dashboards everybody because everybody wants like

342
00:24:44,792 --> 00:24:46,212
a highly customized solution

343
00:24:46,212 --> 00:24:47,332
for whatever they're doing, right?

344
00:24:47,392 --> 00:24:48,152
And it's possible.

345
00:24:48,352 --> 00:24:50,052
So people are just going to expect that.

346
00:24:50,552 --> 00:24:51,652
Now, the cool thing about Bitcoin

347
00:24:51,652 --> 00:24:53,312
is that I've always said that

348
00:24:53,312 --> 00:24:55,212
Bitcoin is so many different things

349
00:24:55,212 --> 00:24:57,912
that you can literally have a great argument

350
00:24:57,912 --> 00:24:59,152
for Bitcoin to somebody

351
00:24:59,152 --> 00:25:01,032
who is on the extreme far right

352
00:25:01,032 --> 00:25:03,092
and also the extreme far left.

353
00:25:03,712 --> 00:25:07,012
There are arguments for both extremes

354
00:25:07,012 --> 00:25:07,872
and everything in between.

355
00:25:08,332 --> 00:25:09,732
So the customization of Bitcoin

356
00:25:09,732 --> 00:25:10,512
is actually pretty cool.

357
00:25:10,952 --> 00:25:12,872
And that will lead to a lot of people

358
00:25:12,872 --> 00:25:15,972
from different walks of life to understanding

359
00:25:16,016 --> 00:25:20,656
stand bitcoin in a very deep way and be completely convinced about it so that's great that's that's

360
00:25:20,656 --> 00:25:25,136
like bullish but that's actually really interesting because like one of the things that i think i've

361
00:25:25,136 --> 00:25:32,236
said before on the podcast is that i think bitcoin covers such a broad array of things that it's very

362
00:25:32,236 --> 00:25:36,516
hard to know how to orange pill someone if you don't know him like if you know that someone cares

363
00:25:36,516 --> 00:25:41,796
deeply about like human rights you tell them the story of like roy and maboo giving women education

364
00:25:41,796 --> 00:25:48,056
in afghanistan by like with using bitcoin like that's gonna always hit but the same story of like

365
00:25:48,056 --> 00:25:54,036
fiat like money like money printing and fiat inflation is not going to necessarily hit that

366
00:25:54,036 --> 00:25:58,516
same person who might be have more those like left-wing biases but maybe that's where the

367
00:25:58,516 --> 00:26:03,016
complete fragmentation of culture actually works in bitcoin's favor like you have people in each of

368
00:26:03,016 --> 00:26:07,556
these camps and and everyone's pushing bitcoin from every different angle it's exactly right and

369
00:26:07,556 --> 00:26:11,836
But that's going to create a reality for a lot of people that will make them think,

370
00:26:12,116 --> 00:26:13,576
ah, nothing is happening in Bitcoin, man.

371
00:26:13,636 --> 00:26:17,016
Like, there's nothing, there's no narratives, there's no movement.

372
00:26:17,656 --> 00:26:22,576
But maybe not to you in your view of the world,

373
00:26:22,656 --> 00:26:26,076
but something here is happening that's really cool that you have absolutely no clue about.

374
00:26:26,616 --> 00:26:31,616
Like, so many times I go to lunch and I talk about something that I care about.

375
00:26:31,616 --> 00:26:35,216
Like, I don't know, I read a book and that book I know sold millions.

376
00:26:35,216 --> 00:26:37,076
and then I talk to somebody like,

377
00:26:37,076 --> 00:26:38,356
hey, do you know about this book

378
00:26:38,356 --> 00:26:39,196
or do you know about this author?

379
00:26:39,256 --> 00:26:40,856
And they're like, nope, never heard about this guy.

380
00:26:40,956 --> 00:26:41,476
I'm like, what the hell?

381
00:26:41,516 --> 00:26:42,976
The guy has sold millions of books.

382
00:26:43,156 --> 00:26:44,336
You have no idea who that is.

383
00:26:44,616 --> 00:26:45,976
And this goes with like, I don't know,

384
00:26:46,036 --> 00:26:47,956
films that you see, bands that you hear.

385
00:26:48,536 --> 00:26:49,356
People are just like,

386
00:26:49,876 --> 00:26:52,956
there's such a disconnect between people.

387
00:26:53,176 --> 00:26:54,116
Like you go to your neighbor

388
00:26:54,116 --> 00:26:56,196
and your neighbor is just going to have

389
00:26:56,196 --> 00:26:57,916
wildly different tastes

390
00:26:57,916 --> 00:27:00,616
and things that they're interested in compared to you.

391
00:27:00,976 --> 00:27:02,296
There's absolutely no,

392
00:27:03,436 --> 00:27:04,416
it doesn't matter anymore

393
00:27:04,416 --> 00:27:05,556
if you live in the same street,

394
00:27:05,636 --> 00:27:06,976
doesn't matter if you live in the same city,

395
00:27:07,196 --> 00:27:08,556
like everything is fragmented

396
00:27:08,556 --> 00:27:10,776
and people just customize their own worldview.

397
00:27:11,536 --> 00:27:13,936
So Bitcoin will win in that way

398
00:27:13,936 --> 00:27:18,036
because it's adaptive enough to create arguments

399
00:27:18,036 --> 00:27:19,916
and be convincing for a lot of different people.

400
00:27:20,816 --> 00:27:24,216
And the thing with the fragmented media is like,

401
00:27:24,256 --> 00:27:26,036
okay, you're going to create these pockets of internet

402
00:27:26,036 --> 00:27:27,356
that are kind of like insulated,

403
00:27:27,616 --> 00:27:30,096
but it's going to be super effective

404
00:27:30,096 --> 00:27:32,216
because these people are going to be super niche.

405
00:27:32,216 --> 00:27:34,656
They're going to cut down to one very specific thing.

406
00:27:35,256 --> 00:27:41,956
And the way that we also like ingest information these days, we don't have the mental capacity to like register everything.

407
00:27:41,956 --> 00:27:47,276
So we need things like packaged in a, you know, bite-sized way.

408
00:27:47,576 --> 00:27:56,436
So adoption is going to be good, but it's not going to feel like, oh my God, we're taking over the world because, you know, this one narrative is like totally dominating.

409
00:27:56,436 --> 00:27:59,236
It's going to be like boring, fragmented.

410
00:27:59,576 --> 00:28:01,896
You're going to not know what the hell is happening.

411
00:28:02,216 --> 00:28:04,136
But it's going to still happen.

412
00:28:04,516 --> 00:28:07,356
But you're going to have a view of like Bitcoin is boring.

413
00:28:07,496 --> 00:28:09,496
And I think that is also what's happening right now.

414
00:28:09,556 --> 00:28:14,396
I think a lot of people are like, like I said, like literally 10 minutes ago, there's no memes.

415
00:28:14,636 --> 00:28:16,016
There's no dominating narrative.

416
00:28:16,276 --> 00:28:16,816
I'm bored.

417
00:28:17,316 --> 00:28:18,856
Bitcoin has no future.

418
00:28:19,016 --> 00:28:20,336
But maybe we shouldn't think like that.

419
00:28:20,396 --> 00:28:26,076
Maybe this is just the way adoption is changing and mutating into something else that we're just not used to.

420
00:28:26,656 --> 00:28:30,336
The thing that keeps me up at night with Bitcoin cold storage isn't Bitcoin failing.

421
00:28:30,336 --> 00:28:31,476
It's my setup failing.

422
00:28:31,476 --> 00:28:33,356
and this is where Anchor Watch comes in.

423
00:28:33,796 --> 00:28:35,376
With Anchor Watch, your Bitcoin's insured

424
00:28:35,376 --> 00:28:38,216
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425
00:28:38,216 --> 00:28:41,296
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426
00:28:41,496 --> 00:28:43,616
So you have the peace of mind knowing your Bitcoin's insured

427
00:28:43,616 --> 00:28:44,776
while not giving up custody.

428
00:28:45,296 --> 00:28:47,116
So whether you're worried about inheritance planning,

429
00:28:47,336 --> 00:28:48,916
wrench attacks, natural disasters,

430
00:28:48,916 --> 00:28:50,456
or just your own silly mistakes,

431
00:28:50,596 --> 00:28:51,896
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432
00:28:52,616 --> 00:28:55,296
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433
00:28:55,296 --> 00:28:56,676
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434
00:28:56,676 --> 00:28:58,516
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435
00:28:58,916 --> 00:29:00,636
You can speak to Anchor Watch for a quote

436
00:29:00,636 --> 00:29:03,236
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437
00:29:03,416 --> 00:29:05,096
visit anchorwatch.com today.

438
00:29:05,676 --> 00:29:07,196
That's anchorwatch.com.

439
00:29:07,456 --> 00:29:08,856
You wouldn't reuse a Bitcoin address,

440
00:29:08,976 --> 00:29:11,796
so why does your phone broadcast the same identifier for life?

441
00:29:12,436 --> 00:29:15,416
Every SIM has a static ID and carriers, ad networks,

442
00:29:15,496 --> 00:29:17,436
and bad actors all use it to track you.

443
00:29:17,896 --> 00:29:20,876
The big carriers have been caught selling that data over and over again.

444
00:29:21,776 --> 00:29:23,956
CAPE is America's privacy-first mobile carrier.

445
00:29:23,956 --> 00:29:27,876
Their identifier rotation feature changes your ID every 24 hours

446
00:29:27,876 --> 00:29:30,376
so you look like a different subscriber every single day.

447
00:29:30,636 --> 00:29:32,296
And SIM swaps are off the table.

448
00:29:32,696 --> 00:29:35,836
Your number can't move without a 24-word phrase that only you hold.

449
00:29:36,216 --> 00:29:41,056
There's also no name at sign up, no social security number, and there's no profile to build on you.

450
00:29:41,476 --> 00:29:45,236
If you're a Bitcoiner in America, I honestly don't know why you'd use any other network.

451
00:29:45,676 --> 00:29:52,116
You can head over to cape.co forward slash WBD and use the code WBD for 33% off your first six months.

452
00:29:52,556 --> 00:29:56,496
That's C-A-P-E dot co forward slash WBD.

453
00:29:56,776 --> 00:29:59,756
If you hold Bitcoin long enough, there's going to come a time when you need some dollars.

454
00:29:59,756 --> 00:30:02,996
It might be a tax bill, a business expense, life getting in the way,

455
00:30:03,196 --> 00:30:06,156
but whatever it is, it might come at a time when you don't want to sell your Bitcoin.

456
00:30:06,736 --> 00:30:07,976
That's where Ledin comes in.

457
00:30:08,396 --> 00:30:10,236
Ledin lets you borrow against your Bitcoin instead,

458
00:30:10,416 --> 00:30:12,756
with tiered rates that go as low as 9.25%.

459
00:30:12,756 --> 00:30:15,596
So you don't have to sell your stack if you don't want to.

460
00:30:16,336 --> 00:30:18,596
Ledin have operated through every market cycle since 2018

461
00:30:18,596 --> 00:30:21,296
and have originated over $11 billion in loans.

462
00:30:21,676 --> 00:30:24,096
But the important part for me is the way Ledin handles these loans.

463
00:30:24,436 --> 00:30:27,496
Your collateral is held in custody and never lent out to generate interest.

464
00:30:27,496 --> 00:30:29,956
and Ledin's more than just loans.

465
00:30:30,316 --> 00:30:32,436
Tether Gold is now live alongside your Bitcoin

466
00:30:32,436 --> 00:30:34,576
with instant trading across 10 pairs

467
00:30:34,576 --> 00:30:36,936
and later this year, you'll be able to borrow against gold

468
00:30:36,936 --> 00:30:38,736
in the same way that you do with Bitcoin.

469
00:30:39,636 --> 00:30:40,776
Ledin really is an awesome company.

470
00:30:40,956 --> 00:30:42,216
I've used them multiple times.

471
00:30:42,376 --> 00:30:44,496
The applications have taken me less than 15 minutes

472
00:30:44,496 --> 00:30:46,636
and you have the dollars in your account within hours.

473
00:30:47,056 --> 00:30:50,216
If you want to check out Ledin, go to ledn.io

474
00:30:50,216 --> 00:30:53,756
and use the code WBD for 0.25% off your first loan.

475
00:30:54,276 --> 00:30:57,176
That's ledn.io and use the code WBD.

476
00:30:57,496 --> 00:31:19,796
So I do have my ace on my sleeve, which is when I think Bitcoin monoculture comes back. But can we talk more broadly about the death of monoculture in society? Because this is a topic that I find really interesting. And I don't always find people that also find it interesting. And there's a time I brought this up on a show maybe six months ago, and you reached out to me. And so I've been excited to talk to you about this.

477
00:31:19,796 --> 00:31:27,296
because i don't know when the death of monoculture happened but i know that it has happened and and

478
00:31:27,296 --> 00:31:43,040
the problem with it is it to me looks like the shittification of everything like music has got worse film has got worse tv got worse like culture is fragmented and so there there no real shared values amongst people that

479
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,300
you might be in like a local geography with maybe there is in all different like different parts of

480
00:31:47,300 --> 00:31:51,820
the world who you have you're connected to through the internet but like i feel like it's a societal

481
00:31:51,820 --> 00:31:58,680
breakdown that i don't love to see and one of the cool things though about recently is the world cup

482
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,360
has been like a shining light of what monoculture can be.

483
00:32:02,580 --> 00:32:08,260
Like, I feel like it's a very small glimpse of the life in the late 90s,

484
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:09,540
early 2000s when I was a kid,

485
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,000
when everyone cared about the same thing at the same time.

486
00:32:12,260 --> 00:32:14,220
And I think there's something really special about that.

487
00:32:14,220 --> 00:32:17,140
But I want to start like just a really open question about like,

488
00:32:17,420 --> 00:32:20,460
when do you think the death of monoculture happened?

489
00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:23,200
Oh man, you're saying so many things.

490
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:24,860
And I'm afraid of going into like crazy around

491
00:32:24,860 --> 00:32:28,040
because I have so many thoughts and opinions about this, but let's do it.

492
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:38,680
I think the death of monoculture probably happened around late aughts, early 2010s, because of social media and internet.

493
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,100
And I think this is something that everybody intuitively knows.

494
00:32:42,420 --> 00:32:45,460
But it's easy to look back and say that now.

495
00:32:45,460 --> 00:32:55,440
But I think, you know, the World Cup is a great example of why we need monocultures in different geographical locations.

496
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,020
because it's really beautiful to see

497
00:32:57,020 --> 00:32:59,600
you know, all the fans

498
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,560
in the stands representing each

499
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,220
country kind of like dressing up in like the

500
00:33:03,220 --> 00:33:05,300
stereotypical garments, you know, like that

501
00:33:05,300 --> 00:33:07,540
it's totally, yeah, it's totally

502
00:33:07,540 --> 00:33:09,420
stereotypical, but it's really

503
00:33:09,420 --> 00:33:11,240
beautiful because you're really, you're shining

504
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,040
you know, your culture, what you represent

505
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,520
and all the values and the traditions of it

506
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,460
right, like I love to see, you know

507
00:33:17,460 --> 00:33:19,400
I grew up in Norway, my fellow Norwegians

508
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,440
they just post up

509
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,280
with like Viking helmets and then

510
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,200
they do the row thing and

511
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:32,800
And it's really wonderful because, you know, when I travel, I want to go to a place and feel like I'm in that country.

512
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:41,120
I don't want to see the same type of coffee shops or the same type of people like being present in every single city.

513
00:33:41,220 --> 00:33:45,920
And I think we see that on, you know, physically.

514
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,740
Like a lot of cities, big cities in Europe, for example, are kind of like starting to look the same.

515
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,080
They're losing their like flair and originality.

516
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:58,400
and we are also seeing it now on the internet with what i like to call the homogenization

517
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:04,920
of the internet which ai is really pushing forward because we have all these tools that

518
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:09,260
are trying to appease everyone because they want to grow fast so they kind of like homogenize the

519
00:34:09,260 --> 00:34:15,660
entire web and giving you results or answers to questions that are like they sound confident but

520
00:34:15,660 --> 00:34:21,300
it gives you like 40 of the actual truth so you we kind of like get like lobotomized slowly over

521
00:34:21,300 --> 00:34:27,980
time thinking that we're really making decisions and we're making opinions based on facts but we're

522
00:34:27,980 --> 00:34:35,040
not and when the monoculture did exist there was at least a feeling even though yes it was super

523
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:41,980
centralized and your only choice was like five hosts of five different shows in one channel

524
00:34:41,980 --> 00:34:47,000
it still was something that brought people together and there was some sense of like okay

525
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:55,040
a consensus of culture that at least if you felt identified or not, it was kind of like the thing,

526
00:34:55,180 --> 00:35:00,920
like mainstream was a thing. And I don't know, there was stuff like grunge bands,

527
00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:05,980
like obscure music from Seattle that just managed to kind of like hit the zeitgeist

528
00:35:05,980 --> 00:35:11,220
to the mainstream. And if they did that, it was literally a global thing. I remember like in the

529
00:35:11,220 --> 00:35:15,300
nineties growing up as a kid as well, like basketball was like insane. They hit the

530
00:35:15,300 --> 00:35:22,660
and it became like an all like all sucking thing that everybody could relate to and and embraced

531
00:35:22,660 --> 00:35:28,940
and that was because of yeah there wasn't the customization again of content wasn't there we

532
00:35:28,940 --> 00:35:34,720
were kind of like reduced to the tv the radio and that was like a thing that happened from

533
00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:42,640
i think 1930s when you know more people at their households began began getting radios and tvs

534
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:48,900
and channels started to appear and content started to create and then that kind of like from the 1930s

535
00:35:48,900 --> 00:35:54,940
it became a growing business a growing industry we saw advertising kind of like get invented

536
00:35:54,940 --> 00:36:00,980
and like more money more money were made so more channels were made and then when the internet came

537
00:36:00,980 --> 00:36:06,300
that kind of like metastasized into the internet and continued to fragment and spread everybody had

538
00:36:06,300 --> 00:36:10,760
their own channels everybody had their own opinions everybody wanted to make money so i think around

539
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:16,740
that 2010 is is kind of like where things really starting to accelerate and just like we are now

540
00:36:16,740 --> 00:36:23,980
15 years in and this like very crazy period where i honestly think and sorry for the rant again

541
00:36:23,980 --> 00:36:32,060
we're kind of like going back to our like human biology of like dude societies for hundreds and

542
00:36:32,060 --> 00:36:39,640
hundreds of years millennia even were mostly reduced to like your local physical place and

543
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:46,680
the culture that grew in those places were just like local, high trust, same language,

544
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:51,080
same way of speaking. Everybody kind of like understood each other because they had evolved

545
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:58,060
in the same place for hundreds of years. Then the 1930s came, fucked us up. And now we're kind of

546
00:36:58,060 --> 00:37:03,540
like, we are not even like, we're not biologically wired to handle all this information that we're

547
00:37:03,540 --> 00:37:06,380
getting fed every single day. Like you're not-

548
00:37:06,380 --> 00:37:07,000
Oh, that's 100% true.

549
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:22,600
Right. You're not supposed to know that there's an earthquake in Venezuela. You're not supposed to know that there's a train derailing in Karachi. You're supposed to know what's happening around you with your family, with your friends, and the Dunbar number of 150 persons max, and then that's it.

550
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:27,700
and we're kind of like we crashed through that and now we're feeding ourselves with so much

551
00:37:27,700 --> 00:37:32,900
information that we have absolutely no clue and i can see now people are kind of slowly going back

552
00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:39,220
to that like the tribal the local only online right so people are like rage quitting x and they

553
00:37:39,220 --> 00:37:45,260
go to nostor or they go to blue sky or you know they they all now make their little tribe their

554
00:37:45,260 --> 00:38:01,085
local tribes online that the only difference that is done online but we kind of like reverting back to that by the human the human kind of like status quo of just like hey i know my people i know what i like i try to find like people that speak the same language

555
00:38:01,085 --> 00:38:08,785
we agree on some fundamentals and then ah my my worldview is like restored and i feel good about

556
00:38:08,785 --> 00:38:15,504
it but that it's it's crazy because you have so much information accessible you literally have the

557
00:38:15,504 --> 00:38:19,785
library of Alexandria at your disposal and you can learn so many great new things. But I think

558
00:38:19,785 --> 00:38:26,205
humans just like default back to that state of like, ah, at least I can, I can feel good about

559
00:38:26,205 --> 00:38:30,585
myself. And I'm like blissfully ignorant about other stuff that is happening because I'm not

560
00:38:30,585 --> 00:38:35,705
really meant to know absolutely everything, if that makes sense. It totally makes sense. And

561
00:38:35,705 --> 00:38:41,684
it gets interesting because, so when I was growing up until I was maybe 10 or 11, we had five TV

562
00:38:41,684 --> 00:38:48,665
channels and then we got sky tv which is essentially like cable tv um and there's there's

563
00:38:48,665 --> 00:38:52,124
two sides of this there's one which is like the information that you're being fed through the news

564
00:38:52,124 --> 00:38:56,705
services and like sure they can be propaganda they can be driving a narrative but everyone was

565
00:38:56,705 --> 00:39:03,205
getting getting given the same information and so people that were close by like in a literal like

566
00:39:03,205 --> 00:39:07,205
geographical sense would be getting the same information to you sure they might be processing

567
00:39:07,205 --> 00:39:11,184
it differently but everyone was like on the same playing field and everyone was kind of dealing

568
00:39:11,184 --> 00:39:17,965
with the same hand of cards whereas now like on that side the information that i'm getting when

569
00:39:17,965 --> 00:39:24,105
i'm scrolling x or whatever is so different to my neighbor that like we can be living next door to

570
00:39:24,105 --> 00:39:29,525
each other but essentially living in an entirely different existence and it's like what i see as

571
00:39:29,525 --> 00:39:34,145
truth they don't see as truth and it makes it very hard to kind of go to the coffee shop and

572
00:39:34,145 --> 00:39:40,744
have a conversation with someone that's not just surface level bullshit like small talk um and and

573
00:39:40,744 --> 00:39:46,305
i don't know what that does to society and then like on a cultural side even more so it's even

574
00:39:46,305 --> 00:39:50,785
more dispersed in that like the stuff that i'm watching for entertainment is totally different

575
00:39:50,785 --> 00:39:54,785
like i'm not watching you know married at first sight or love island or whatever that someone else

576
00:39:54,785 --> 00:40:01,824
might be watching and i just feel like the the sort of medium that you communicate to other humans

577
00:40:01,824 --> 00:40:06,744
that you don't properly know through has changed and i don't know what it is anymore and i just see

578
00:40:06,744 --> 00:40:13,944
that as being a really scary thing for society yeah no it is it is and it's like um an analogy

579
00:40:13,944 --> 00:40:18,905
that i had one more thing in there sorry go ahead i totally interrupt you but because this is

580
00:40:18,905 --> 00:40:23,744
something i've been thinking about a lot as well is i think it's bad for everyone but there's also

581
00:40:23,744 --> 00:40:30,444
a huge age divide which i think is really bad like so when i grew up again like anyone who grew up in

582
00:40:30,444 --> 00:40:36,305
the same era as me like you talk to respect your elders like the these are like i look up to my my

583
00:40:36,305 --> 00:40:41,944
my grandparents fucking amazing people they live in a different world entirely because they still

584
00:40:41,944 --> 00:40:48,605
live in the 90s and so like i don't know what it does to society both in people like my own age

585
00:40:48,605 --> 00:40:54,484
that live in a different world of truth to me and also like different generations that are just i

586
00:40:54,484 --> 00:40:59,345
they may as well be like an alien race at this point they don't have the same context i mean

587
00:40:59,345 --> 00:41:03,925
there is a point to be said about like boomers getting totally sucked into apps and their phones

588
00:41:03,925 --> 00:41:06,564
more than young people, but that's kind of like a different topic.

589
00:41:06,564 --> 00:41:11,364
But like they are like literally getting their brain fried through WhatsApp and Telegram.

590
00:41:11,484 --> 00:41:14,124
It's just that's that's an entirely different discussion.

591
00:41:14,124 --> 00:41:15,324
But yeah, it's crazy.

592
00:41:15,824 --> 00:41:20,805
But I think it's just like I don't I don't think people know the difference between facts

593
00:41:20,805 --> 00:41:21,324
and truth.

594
00:41:21,785 --> 00:41:22,025
Right.

595
00:41:22,225 --> 00:41:27,305
That's that's kind of the biggest issue right now, because we all agree on the facts.

596
00:41:27,305 --> 00:41:35,905
Like, okay, if somebody records on their phone somebody robbing somebody else, right?

597
00:41:36,045 --> 00:41:37,064
That's a fact.

598
00:41:37,244 --> 00:41:39,324
Like, you see the crime happening.

599
00:41:39,725 --> 00:41:41,585
This person killed that person.

600
00:41:42,264 --> 00:41:42,864
End of.

601
00:41:42,984 --> 00:41:43,805
That's the fact.

602
00:41:43,864 --> 00:41:48,564
But the truth around that fact depends a lot on, like, your ideas already.

603
00:41:48,805 --> 00:41:53,444
So if you're, or your ideology, depending on how extreme you are.

604
00:41:53,444 --> 00:42:06,324
But you can say, somebody on both extremes can say, well, the guy who killed that guy comes from the slums and there's majority of a certain race that live in that slum.

605
00:42:06,525 --> 00:42:07,764
So it's a racist thing.

606
00:42:08,104 --> 00:42:10,025
And that's why I hate that race.

607
00:42:10,324 --> 00:42:14,444
Then the other extreme can say, but this guy is poor.

608
00:42:14,585 --> 00:42:15,764
He lives in poverty.

609
00:42:15,944 --> 00:42:18,905
He has to resort to crime because he doesn't have any other opportunity.

610
00:42:18,905 --> 00:42:23,405
So that's two truths for just one very simple fact.

611
00:42:23,445 --> 00:42:28,285
that happen. Now extrapolate that to like literally everything that happens that gets

612
00:42:28,285 --> 00:42:35,604
recorded and shared online. And you have this like insane chaos of nobody agreeing on simple things

613
00:42:35,604 --> 00:42:41,165
that should be simple things to agree around. Right. And, and then you have people who,

614
00:42:41,385 --> 00:42:46,484
who capitalize on these things and, you know, politicians are always the first ones to do,

615
00:42:46,545 --> 00:42:50,545
but this is also for influencers, thought leaders, people who just want to grow their accounts.

616
00:42:50,545 --> 00:42:55,864
they just leverage that as well just to get more followers and like the incentives for

617
00:42:55,864 --> 00:43:02,084
spreading information and building a followership and and creating content that actually educates

618
00:43:02,084 --> 00:43:08,305
and gets gets through is highly highly perverse and that is definitely breaking a lot of people's

619
00:43:08,305 --> 00:43:14,025
brains but and this is an analogy that a lot of bitcoiners like to um compare bitcoin with

620
00:43:14,025 --> 00:43:19,305
is gutenberg's printing press right what we're seeing right now with all this like distribution

621
00:43:19,305 --> 00:43:25,744
mechanics and all distribution channels like completely getting you know disrupted can be

622
00:43:25,744 --> 00:43:31,125
compared to that right and the thing is is like well a lot of people don't know about because

623
00:43:31,125 --> 00:43:36,625
when you look back and do like revisionist history it's very easy to just pinpoint to one point in

624
00:43:36,625 --> 00:43:42,344
history and then another like a result and think this happened in a very small vacuum but if you

625
00:43:42,344 --> 00:43:46,584
really take a look at like the printing press let's say and i and i do want to compare the printing

626
00:43:46,584 --> 00:43:53,125
press with Bitcoin, with AI, and the internet as a whole, because... Let me explain. So the printing

627
00:43:53,125 --> 00:43:58,705
press, now everybody looks back and said, okay, yeah, it dissolved the Catholic church's monopoly

628
00:43:58,705 --> 00:44:18,529
on God There was these institutions that had this information asymmetry and they grew in power they grew in influence and they got a lot of money right and you would think like okay the printing press disrupted that and it was over but if you really take a look at

629
00:44:18,529 --> 00:44:26,429
history uh from the invention of the printing press what really followed was like 300 years of like

630
00:44:26,429 --> 00:44:32,789
complete chaos starting with the reformation but then like the enlightenment the 30 years war

631
00:44:32,789 --> 00:44:37,209
than the collapse of feudalism and the rise of nation states, right?

632
00:44:37,329 --> 00:44:40,929
That was like a crazy, chaotic transitional period

633
00:44:40,929 --> 00:44:44,649
because of this one invention that made it essentially information-free.

634
00:44:45,269 --> 00:44:49,349
Now, nobody who used the early printing press,

635
00:44:49,769 --> 00:44:54,069
they didn't live to see the world that that invention eventually created.

636
00:44:54,069 --> 00:44:57,529
What they did, they just spent their entire lives

637
00:44:57,529 --> 00:45:00,829
in that transition chaos era.

638
00:45:00,829 --> 00:45:06,829
And I think we are in the exact same spot today with both the internet, Bitcoin, and AI.

639
00:45:07,329 --> 00:45:09,649
So if you expect all of these...

640
00:45:09,649 --> 00:45:10,389
We're in the chaos era.

641
00:45:10,569 --> 00:45:11,289
We're in the chaos.

642
00:45:11,489 --> 00:45:13,069
Yeah, I like to call it the chaos gap.

643
00:45:13,169 --> 00:45:16,968
I don't know if I can maybe coin that term and it becomes a thing, but it's the chaos gap.

644
00:45:17,369 --> 00:45:22,729
So if we obviously talk about this right now on this podcast, because we have questions,

645
00:45:22,789 --> 00:45:24,468
we want to know what the fuck is going on.

646
00:45:24,468 --> 00:45:36,729
But if we and other people who share our thoughts expect this to resolve within this decade, I mean, then we don't really understand the scale of the game, you know.

647
00:45:36,849 --> 00:45:50,929
So, yeah, you might get blackpilled because you see regulators banning a wallet or, you know, the authorities arrest the samurai devs or you get blackpilled when, you know, Bitcoin crashes to 70%.

648
00:45:50,929 --> 00:45:59,149
But if you do that, you're kind of like looking at this civilizational transition through a very short lens.

649
00:45:59,609 --> 00:46:09,649
And we're kind of like in the middle of a very crazy transitional era in human history that I don't think we're going to live to see through the actual results.

650
00:46:10,949 --> 00:46:12,649
You know, and this goes for everything.

651
00:46:13,129 --> 00:46:14,129
Yeah, you hope not.

652
00:46:14,229 --> 00:46:14,529
Yeah, yeah.

653
00:46:14,789 --> 00:46:16,489
I want to see the end of this.

654
00:46:16,489 --> 00:46:26,289
But I do think when you bring all this back to Bitcoin, it does make more sense why things like the Bit110 civil war is happening right now.

655
00:46:26,468 --> 00:46:37,009
I think one of the interesting things on the Bit110 side is that most of the people who are supportive of it also don't like the sort of financialization treasury company side of it.

656
00:46:37,009 --> 00:46:49,869
And I think that's people completely understandably wanting to push back against this becoming like a homogenized, boring version of what we thought Bitcoin was.

657
00:46:51,889 --> 00:46:59,909
But my kind of strong take on this is I think Bitcoin might go through this period now where it does fragment a little.

658
00:47:00,029 --> 00:47:04,629
It goes into its niches like Bitcoin adoption happens at the edges rather than like straight through the middle.

659
00:47:04,629 --> 00:47:06,749
It's not the coolest thing in the world.

660
00:47:06,749 --> 00:47:11,349
like ai is here now and that's what everyone wants to talk about but i think it comes back when

661
00:47:11,349 --> 00:47:18,489
we realized that this was a trojan horse like i i think if if bitcoin is the trojan horse

662
00:47:18,489 --> 00:47:25,209
and if we've now been sort of let into the gates and wall street are accepting us the the the

663
00:47:25,209 --> 00:47:29,589
changing point will be when it becomes clear that bitcoin is a threat to the u.s dollar

664
00:47:29,589 --> 00:47:36,349
and what leads to that i don't know whether it's like you know financial crisis huge money printing

665
00:47:36,349 --> 00:47:40,069
and Bitcoin then poses a realistic threat to the US dollar.

666
00:47:40,149 --> 00:47:41,809
But I think there will come a time

667
00:47:41,809 --> 00:47:43,949
when Bitcoin does get its monoculture back.

668
00:47:45,349 --> 00:47:46,089
Yeah, I think so.

669
00:47:46,229 --> 00:47:49,389
I mean, usually when a crisis happens,

670
00:47:49,468 --> 00:47:52,089
that's when humans get together super quickly

671
00:47:52,089 --> 00:47:54,529
in defense of that crisis.

672
00:47:55,009 --> 00:47:56,729
And I don't know what that crisis is going to be,

673
00:47:56,729 --> 00:47:58,549
but definitely a lot of people agree.

674
00:47:58,708 --> 00:48:02,468
And it's kind of like a meme that Bitcoin thrives in crises.

675
00:48:02,468 --> 00:48:09,909
is um so but i it's it's kind of like a black pill uh way of growing adoption right like you

676
00:48:09,909 --> 00:48:15,489
don't want the world to become a worse place just so that bitcoin can win so i i think um

677
00:48:15,489 --> 00:48:22,088
bitcoin will win in a very boring and slowly way i i kind of like i i do think like adoption is

678
00:48:22,088 --> 00:48:26,968
going to just be fragmented and very boring and slow slow grinding and we will like the same way

679
00:48:26,968 --> 00:48:32,869
the price is not really like making crazy moves but just like slowly grinds upwards that's kind

680
00:48:32,869 --> 00:48:37,389
of what's going to happen in the future even more because it's just uh very hard to organize

681
00:48:37,389 --> 00:48:44,449
ourselves and and get a lot of people behind one one movement on one narrative but i'm repeating

682
00:48:44,449 --> 00:48:52,929
myself that's boring on the 110 on the bit 110 guys i think it's just like um i i feel like you

683
00:48:52,929 --> 00:48:58,909
know bitcoin if you really look at it from first principles it's technology man and technology

684
00:48:58,909 --> 00:49:08,249
adapts changes and 99 of things that gets built for one very specific purpose once adoption

685
00:49:08,249 --> 00:49:16,269
happens that purpose kind of like it's not really what what it ends being right like take take my

686
00:49:16,269 --> 00:49:22,269
company for example i was totally i'm not comparing precision with bitcoin but you know any startup

687
00:49:22,269 --> 00:49:27,549
any founder any people working in tech can tell you hey you start off with an idea and you think

688
00:49:27,549 --> 00:49:32,849
you build a product a certain way then people come and like oh shit you got a pivot and the

689
00:49:32,849 --> 00:49:36,769
things that you thought was true is actually not true because the market is telling you a very

690
00:49:36,769 --> 00:49:42,589
different truth so you adapt to that and you build around that and obviously bitcoin is not as flexible

691
00:49:42,589 --> 00:49:47,208
as a startup as a regular SaaS but it's kind of like the same thing like yeah you have a white

692
00:49:47,208 --> 00:49:54,708
paper with like some fundamentals but that was written in a in a time and place where maybe these

693
00:49:54,708 --> 00:49:59,889
these things become less relevant over time just because the type of people who ends up adopting

694
00:49:59,889 --> 00:50:05,208
bitcoin and builders that are building on top of bitcoin changing bitcoin in a way because they just

695
00:50:05,208 --> 00:50:10,529
build different things like ordinals or whatever that you just don't see as like hey this is not

696
00:50:10,529 --> 00:50:16,968
the original Bitcoin idea, but how much does that really matter?

697
00:50:16,968 --> 00:50:19,429
It doesn't really matter what you thought of something in the beginning.

698
00:50:19,729 --> 00:50:20,968
What matters is the outcome.

699
00:50:21,309 --> 00:50:26,149
So I think a lot of these people are like screeching as a result of that because, hey,

700
00:50:26,149 --> 00:50:31,989
this is not what I thought this was, but it's like, that's a very hard pill to swallow because

701
00:50:32,033 --> 00:50:38,113
Because again, it's akin to orange pilling in itself.

702
00:50:38,373 --> 00:50:48,913
In order to understand Bitcoin, it's a highly spiritual individual journey that part of that process is to unlearn a lot of things that you thought was true about the world.

703
00:50:48,913 --> 00:50:57,053
And you got to come to that realization of like, fuck, like, damn, I need to like humble myself here because it's just not the world is not what I thought it was.

704
00:50:57,913 --> 00:51:00,393
And why is Bitcoin very different than that?

705
00:51:00,393 --> 00:51:02,113
I think Bitcoin is exactly the same.

706
00:51:02,213 --> 00:51:07,113
It's like a lot of people, they understand Bitcoin and they get convinced about Bitcoin

707
00:51:07,113 --> 00:51:10,653
and they love Bitcoin because of two, three, four different arguments.

708
00:51:11,353 --> 00:51:15,553
But then more arguments are going to come later in the future as this thing grows and

709
00:51:15,553 --> 00:51:17,253
more different people comes into the ring.

710
00:51:17,353 --> 00:51:19,093
And then you got to be accepting of that.

711
00:51:19,313 --> 00:51:21,853
And then it seems like these people are not.

712
00:51:22,253 --> 00:51:26,653
And then the way that they go about it is also extremely cringe.

713
00:51:26,653 --> 00:51:32,693
I just want to say it like the scare tactics, this kind of like, hey, I'm the sole holder of truth.

714
00:51:32,693 --> 00:51:34,713
And if you don't agree with me, you're an idiot.

715
00:51:35,273 --> 00:51:41,873
It's like that's kind of the same thing we have been criticizing each other about when it comes to like orange peeling norm is like this.

716
00:51:42,113 --> 00:51:45,713
This way, this tactic is just not good.

717
00:51:45,773 --> 00:51:47,033
You're not going to get a lot of people.

718
00:51:47,033 --> 00:51:52,153
And it seems to me like the people that they manage to gather around are people who share the same views.

719
00:51:52,153 --> 00:51:58,033
and so they're not really they're not really being successful in getting other type of different

720
00:51:58,033 --> 00:52:02,953
people to believe that BIP 110 is relevant and important so it's like the same the same type

721
00:52:02,953 --> 00:52:09,513
people are just gathering together here and it's yeah I don't know it's I don't know it's been

722
00:52:09,513 --> 00:52:13,453
interesting to see but like I I totally agree I think there's going to be a lot of people

723
00:52:13,453 --> 00:52:21,053
realize that Bitcoin doesn't care what you think it should be um but I don't know it's a mess I'm

724
00:52:21,053 --> 00:52:25,833
excited for this all to be over like this is such peak bear market things like i i just want i want

725
00:52:25,833 --> 00:52:30,393
to get past this like we need to build a new narrative we need to build more memes um but

726
00:52:30,393 --> 00:52:36,433
fernando before we close out i need you to i need you to give me some light on an argument that i had

727
00:52:36,433 --> 00:52:44,553
with pete for years on the podcast i don't so we recorded a podcast with pete when he first pivoted

728
00:52:44,553 --> 00:52:55,793
I don't think it came up, but he held this opinion very strongly in that he thought that Amy Winehouse's album was the last great album.

729
00:52:57,053 --> 00:53:00,993
And I think he might have been directionally right.

730
00:53:01,173 --> 00:53:07,833
Although I so I always said Kendrick Lamar to Pimper Butterfly was a great album that came out after the Amy Winehouse one.

731
00:53:07,833 --> 00:53:14,653
but i think what he actually spotted was the homogenization of music through things like

732
00:53:14,653 --> 00:53:22,353
spotify algorithms do you think we've lost art forever oh man that's a great question i think

733
00:53:22,353 --> 00:53:29,293
well amy winehouse was not like um was not an artist that really created an original sound for

734
00:53:29,293 --> 00:53:35,233
the time that she was living in she was like all retro like her music was like old soul so her music

735
00:53:35,233 --> 00:53:41,033
was like the 70s wrapped in a modern package so if you strip that away and you only look at

736
00:53:41,033 --> 00:53:48,253
original music maybe the last album is like from the 80s or 90s um and a lot of like new bands that

737
00:53:48,253 --> 00:53:54,333
really that that i like that are new are like kind of like sounding like old school stuff throwbacks

738
00:53:54,333 --> 00:54:01,773
throwbacks and the new sound that i see that kind of is hitting the the mainstream cultures like in

739
00:54:01,773 --> 00:54:15,835
terms of like you know hip music and rap music fucking sucks man and uh messaging is kind of like crazy and i always i been i grew up on rap music to be honest i i love rap music and i always felt like part of the part of the

740
00:54:15,835 --> 00:54:19,595
reason why i love rap music is because it's a reflection of society because there's so much

741
00:54:19,595 --> 00:54:25,455
talking so much lyrics so much verbal communication so if you listen you get like a nice reflection

742
00:54:25,455 --> 00:54:29,875
of like the reality that is being lived and if you listen to the lyrics today of rap it's just

743
00:54:29,875 --> 00:54:36,275
like whoa we are living in a nihilistic world that just like nobody has any hopes and it's all

744
00:54:36,275 --> 00:54:41,875
about drugs and fucking all kind of like demon-like things so if that's a reflection of the society

745
00:54:41,875 --> 00:54:46,035
that we're in yeah we're not going to create good music and maybe we need to look back at like

746
00:54:46,035 --> 00:54:53,455
older older stuff but what was your original question sorry i kind of got derailed i wonder

747
00:54:53,455 --> 00:55:00,975
if the the fact that we've kind of become slaves to the algorithm for finding new music new art

748
00:55:00,975 --> 00:55:06,135
new film like does that how do you break out of that and and will we break out of that because

749
00:55:06,135 --> 00:55:11,155
like it leads to everything being beige because it never the algorithm never wants to offend

750
00:55:11,155 --> 00:55:16,875
so it always gives you stuff that it thinks you're gonna like enough to stay not enough to love and i

751
00:55:16,875 --> 00:55:22,755
just wonder if we can break out of that yeah i don't think the majority of people will break out

752
00:55:22,755 --> 00:55:28,375
of that and I can explain why. So I started my career in the music business, right? And I started,

753
00:55:28,615 --> 00:55:33,535
I was working at Universal Music in Norway, where I grew up between Norway and Argentina. I was in

754
00:55:33,535 --> 00:55:39,135
the Oslo office in Universal Music and in the neighboring country, Sweden, the Pirate Bay guys

755
00:55:39,135 --> 00:55:44,835
were doing their thing, right? And torrenting had like a very, you know, I had a moment in the early

756
00:55:44,835 --> 00:55:51,175
odds, mid odds. So by the time I started my career back in 2007, I was working there. I was, I remember

757
00:55:51,175 --> 00:55:54,715
to this day and i've been tweeting about this a lot like i remember sitting in the in the board

758
00:55:54,715 --> 00:56:00,655
rooms on the phone with with the london office and all the executives were like screeching and

759
00:56:00,655 --> 00:56:06,335
and and like saying like we need to stop the pirate bay uh we need to like confiscate their

760
00:56:06,335 --> 00:56:11,295
servers we need to put those people in jail we need to shut down the website and i was the youngest

761
00:56:11,295 --> 00:56:15,435
guy there and i was like to myself i'm like what the fuck is what is going on right now what are

762
00:56:15,435 --> 00:56:18,655
these people talking about like they obviously don't understand the technology they don't

763
00:56:18,655 --> 00:56:23,455
understand the decentralization of torrenting and that is literally unstoppable you can put them in

764
00:56:23,455 --> 00:56:28,755
jail but you're not gonna you're not gonna make a dent uh they just didn't didn't understand it

765
00:56:28,755 --> 00:56:33,775
and i was like hey why don't we embrace this technology and we try to like uh create like

766
00:56:33,775 --> 00:56:39,635
low bit rate uh versions of singles and and distribute that and get people excited and then

767
00:56:39,635 --> 00:56:43,695
they will buy the real shit later and they were like no absolutely not like i'm like that was a

768
00:56:43,695 --> 00:56:49,815
thing that made me rage quit the uh the industry what happened later though is that the music

769
00:56:49,815 --> 00:56:56,395
business as they got disrupted and they were like trying to scramble to stay relevant and just to

770
00:56:56,395 --> 00:57:02,855
stay solvent is that they did mergers and acquisitions and then they got like those

771
00:57:02,855 --> 00:57:07,315
mergers and acquisitions made them to like a one global entity that was powerful enough to say to

772
00:57:07,315 --> 00:57:12,495
spotify like hey if you want to enter the u.s market if you want to ipo in this market we need

773
00:57:12,495 --> 00:57:17,935
a we need a cut pure mafia shit like if you want to like have a shop here in the street and you

774
00:57:17,935 --> 00:57:22,735
don't want us to like come and destroy your shop give us a give us a piece so i think if i remember

775
00:57:22,735 --> 00:57:29,935
correctly when they ipo'd uh in the us the this conglomerate had like 20 25 of the of the initial

776
00:57:29,935 --> 00:57:35,895
shares during the ipo and that was the way that they allowed spotify to exist and then they

777
00:57:35,895 --> 00:57:54,178
obviously pushed that solution to a lot of other people but the torrenting has always managed to co Torrenting is not dead and you can still go today and you can download any files and movies and media that you want But it is definitely a user experience that is less smooth

778
00:57:54,178 --> 00:57:57,638
than just like paying $10 to Amazon Prime, $25 to Netflix

779
00:57:57,638 --> 00:57:59,658
and just like go there and stream.

780
00:58:00,258 --> 00:58:05,258
So convenience, when they wrapped the MP3s and the MP4 files

781
00:58:05,258 --> 00:58:08,858
that torrenting were just giving to you directly, real MP4s,

782
00:58:08,858 --> 00:58:14,958
Now you get the wrapped MP4 versions on these platforms that people are just like, yeah, these are great businesses.

783
00:58:15,578 --> 00:58:22,618
So things coexist, but the real torrenting is a minority and the normies are just embracing that, right?

784
00:58:22,678 --> 00:58:24,018
And they're a slave to that algorithm.

785
00:58:24,198 --> 00:58:30,758
And you got these self-sovereign people who get their taste buds from other way and they know what to go for.

786
00:58:30,818 --> 00:58:34,518
And they download very specific things because they know that they like it.

787
00:58:35,698 --> 00:58:38,178
Bitcoin, I kind of feel like it's the same.

788
00:58:38,178 --> 00:58:44,418
like we have you have you have we have managed to separate money and state it's definitely the

789
00:58:44,418 --> 00:58:50,518
state the state is not controlling anything it's not not letting you download a wallet and receive

790
00:58:50,518 --> 00:58:56,118
bitcoin you can do that today you don't need any permission still possible and self-custody is still

791
00:58:56,118 --> 00:59:00,878
possible great products are out there and there's a plethora of products and companies fighting for

792
00:59:00,878 --> 00:59:07,818
the customers they're making these products better over time but the wrapped bitcoin the normies are

793
00:59:07,818 --> 00:59:13,678
loving that now if it's etf if it's paper if it's like custodial even that they hold bitcoin but

794
00:59:13,678 --> 00:59:18,598
together with a custodian i think the majority are going in that direction as well the same thing is

795
00:59:18,598 --> 00:59:25,898
going to happen when it comes to taste music design ai is kind of like giving you a wrapped

796
00:59:25,898 --> 00:59:30,738
version of like hey this is what good web design is and now you see a lot of people creating websites

797
00:59:30,738 --> 00:59:36,098
and they all have that like annoying little like border color on the left and just like man this is

798
00:59:36,098 --> 00:59:40,918
AI. And then with language, it's the same. Like AI is giving you the homogenized wrapped version

799
00:59:40,918 --> 00:59:46,478
of like what cool, what good writing is supposed to be. And people are so dumb and they're so bad

800
00:59:46,478 --> 00:59:51,558
at writing and designing that that version is way better than they could produce themselves.

801
00:59:51,558 --> 00:59:56,898
So they're just going to go with that. And now we have AI slopification of the internet through

802
00:59:56,898 --> 01:00:02,818
sloppy design and sloppy language. So are we going to escape it? Yeah, it is still possible. There is

803
01:00:02,818 --> 01:00:09,718
escape hatch, but how many people are actually going to actually be high agency enough to realize

804
01:00:09,718 --> 01:00:16,698
what's happening and actually take action? One, two, three, five percent. That's like Odell said

805
01:00:16,698 --> 01:00:20,838
this to me a couple of times when I've had him on the podcast. He's like, the percentage number is

806
01:00:20,838 --> 01:00:25,258
going to drop, but the real number is going to grow it. And like, maybe that is two, three, four,

807
01:00:25,358 --> 01:00:29,418
five percent, but it's going to be a small number of people that actually do have agency.

808
01:00:30,138 --> 01:00:32,278
And the scary thing on the AI side is like,

809
01:00:32,818 --> 01:00:38,118
I can't see how they break out of the same incentives that the Netflix and Spotify's have

810
01:00:38,118 --> 01:00:46,418
in the world where they want to give you safe beige information. And I think that just means

811
01:00:46,418 --> 01:00:52,758
censorship in a different form. Like they're going to give you such bland takes on everything and

812
01:00:52,758 --> 01:00:55,898
people are going to rely on it so heavily. That's their only take they're going to have.

813
01:00:55,898 --> 01:01:04,378
and i don't know man i just worry about society i mean listen i think there's always been equality

814
01:01:04,378 --> 01:01:09,018
in this world there's always been people that are high agency people that are low agency i think the

815
01:01:09,018 --> 01:01:13,618
majority of people are low agency that's also the reason why bitcoin adoption is maybe not as big as

816
01:01:13,618 --> 01:01:27,720
we wish it to be but that because we are all high agency people who know our shit and we are humbled enough to change our worldview and to be adaptable majority of people aren like that they just passive consumers of content we are on the other side and

817
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:31,720
i don't want to sound like elitist or anything like that but just there are just differences

818
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:35,720
in people there are people that will take the opportunity that they have even though they have

819
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:42,680
to do uber eats all day and they will put on this headphone and listen to a podcast about finance and

820
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:44,440
Bitcoin as they deliver Uber Eats.

821
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:49,380
And there's going to be people who are ordering Uber Eats and just sitting on their couch

822
01:01:49,380 --> 01:01:50,540
watching Slop all day.

823
01:01:51,100 --> 01:01:55,140
And I think we can be as altruistic as we want to be and try to help as many people

824
01:01:55,140 --> 01:01:59,340
as possible, but at the same time, lead a horse to the water and all of that stuff, right?

825
01:01:59,380 --> 01:02:05,960
Like we just got to like keep working hard, understand that there's still a lot of things

826
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:06,380
to grow.

827
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:12,080
Bitcoin has still a lot of more adoption, more, this cake is going to get bigger.

828
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:15,060
I don't think the hyper-boliconization of the world,

829
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:16,720
like us taking over the US dollar

830
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:18,140
is going to happen anytime soon,

831
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:20,140
but that's the end game.

832
01:02:20,660 --> 01:02:21,900
Right now, we just got to be content

833
01:02:21,900 --> 01:02:23,080
with where we are right now

834
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:25,720
and just keep focused and keep building

835
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:27,880
and just chipping away at it.

836
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:29,1000
And I think even though I'm not

837
01:02:29,1000 --> 01:02:32,360
a huge circular economy fan,

838
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:34,920
I do respect the people who chose that path

839
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,240
and want to deliver that message

840
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,060
while other people are choosing different paths

841
01:02:39,060 --> 01:02:41,020
and they still deliver the Bitcoin message.

842
01:02:41,020 --> 01:02:43,540
everybody wins if Bitcoin just grows

843
01:02:43,540 --> 01:02:44,760
and I don't care how

844
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:47,060
you can be an ordinal maxi for all I care

845
01:02:47,060 --> 01:02:48,840
if that's the only understanding of Bitcoin that you have

846
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:49,760
good for you man

847
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:51,680
at least you're doing something in Bitcoin

848
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:53,820
I don't care about my personal opinion

849
01:02:53,820 --> 01:02:55,300
I care about freedom

850
01:02:55,300 --> 01:02:57,860
and I want people to be free to do whatever stupid shit

851
01:02:57,860 --> 01:02:58,560
that they want to do

852
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:00,940
but I think Bitcoin wins no matter what

853
01:03:00,940 --> 01:03:02,220
and we just need more people through the door

854
01:03:02,220 --> 01:03:03,780
so you know that's it

855
01:03:03,780 --> 01:03:05,600
I love it man

856
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:07,100
Fernando this has been awesome

857
01:03:07,100 --> 01:03:08,400
we've got to do it again at some point

858
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:11,840
This is a very different show than the type I normally make.

859
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:12,820
And I really enjoyed it.

860
01:03:13,180 --> 01:03:16,460
But tell people where they can find out about the work you're doing before we close out.

861
01:03:17,140 --> 01:03:19,480
Yeah, so my company is Perception.

862
01:03:19,940 --> 01:03:22,080
The website is perception.to.

863
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:27,900
What it essentially is, is just I gather all the discourse that happens around the digital

864
01:03:27,900 --> 01:03:28,580
asset industry.

865
01:03:28,700 --> 01:03:30,520
So I include Bitcoin, but I don't want to have that.

866
01:03:30,700 --> 01:03:32,240
I don't want to study Bitcoin in isolation.

867
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:35,700
It's important to know where Bitcoin stands, where everything else is going on.

868
01:03:35,700 --> 01:03:42,320
So it's compute, AI, mining, payments, you name it, stable coins, all of that.

869
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:50,720
I gather thousands of sources every single day, thousands of data points about the discourse, about the filings, documentation, everything that happens.

870
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:52,500
And then I give it to you.

871
01:03:52,600 --> 01:04:04,940
And a lot of people, this is more for businesses that take that and they get a feel of what's happening in the industry and they can, you know, do product strategy and they do marketing and communication strategy for it.

872
01:04:04,940 --> 01:04:06,980
it's delivered through an MCP

873
01:04:06,980 --> 01:04:09,960
and you can go to perception.to for that.

874
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:11,620
And for me, you know, just Google my name,

875
01:04:11,660 --> 01:04:12,360
you'll find me everywhere.

876
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:14,340
I love it, man.

877
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:15,680
I should use this, by the way.

878
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:18,100
I want to try it out and see what it gives me on Bitcoin.

879
01:04:18,700 --> 01:04:19,300
Yeah, do it.

880
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:21,820
By the way, the MCP is free for forever

881
01:04:21,820 --> 01:04:23,240
for five requests a day.

882
01:04:23,300 --> 01:04:24,920
So you just like plug it into your agents

883
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:25,1000
and you get five requests a day

884
01:04:25,1000 --> 01:04:28,800
and you can take a peek and see how it feels like.

885
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:30,080
So go ahead and do that.

886
01:04:30,940 --> 01:04:31,700
I'm going to try it out.

887
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:33,420
Fernando, this has been awesome, man.

888
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:34,640
Thank you for coming on the show.

889
01:04:34,940 --> 01:04:36,440
I will speak to you soon.

890
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:37,540
We've got to do it again at some point.

891
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:38,760
Yeah, thanks for having me on, man.

892
01:04:38,900 --> 01:04:39,860
Good combo.