1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,800
don't lose focus where is bitcoin going who is it going to benefit is this actually going to

2
00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:14,400
unlock this freedom the greatest change of the global order maybe ever and maybe the final one

3
00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:19,400
or will it sort of unlock and enable you know the same networks that were running the dollar system

4
00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:25,400
to have a really neat way to get out of their debt problem and and you know kick the can down

5
00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:30,120
the road. It was designed to kind of have this disinflationary, asymptotic approach to zero

6
00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:35,980
issuance. That has not been co-opted. That will not be co-opted. And because of that, Bitcoin will

7
00:00:35,980 --> 00:00:42,100
win, but it might not win carrying along the carriage behind it of peer-to-peer, uncensurable

8
00:00:42,100 --> 00:00:47,020
cash. If there was something that was co-opted, it's the Bitcoin culture. It's the people. It's

9
00:00:47,020 --> 00:00:51,700
the community. It's the discourse. If we're not ready to onboard billions of people onto Bitcoin

10
00:00:51,700 --> 00:00:56,660
and give them sovereignty, a permissionless network like it was when we found it years ago.

11
00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:01,600
If we can't give that to our kids, then we failed, even though we're going to be multimillionaires.

12
00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:11,100
Let's go. Mark Goodwin, what a terrible time to be a conspiracy theory denier.

13
00:01:13,780 --> 00:01:18,640
Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. The only one who's down more to go on the last week.

14
00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:46,560
Yeah, the only people that are down more than the Bitcoin holders right now are the conspiracy short sellers. So yeah, it's been interesting. It's been fun. Twitter's on fire. And it's just we're in the fog of war, the eye of the storm, whatever crappy metaphor you want to use. But yeah, files are some of them are out. There's some people that are now having to accept the reality that they've denied for years.

15
00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,480
And, you know, here we are.

16
00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,160
And Bitcoin gets wrapped all up in it, you know.

17
00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:59,580
So very, very fun for, you know, for folks like me who've been sort of yelling for a while about this stuff.

18
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:05,200
And, you know, obviously many times spoken on this show with you, with Peter, about a lot of this stuff.

19
00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:06,180
So, yeah.

20
00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:07,160
Wakey, wakey.

21
00:02:07,220 --> 00:02:07,460
Welcome.

22
00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:09,640
I hope you had a nice nap.

23
00:02:09,980 --> 00:02:10,720
Welcome back.

24
00:02:11,900 --> 00:02:15,080
I mean, I feel like you're an apology from some people over this.

25
00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:19,380
this is like like you say you've been banging this drum for so long i do want to get into the

26
00:02:19,380 --> 00:02:24,440
bitcoin and epstein um stuff a little bit later but can we start on just the epstein files like

27
00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,580
more broadly because i know you'll have been paying a lot of attention to this it's been

28
00:02:28,580 --> 00:02:33,520
impossible to to not see this on twitter for the last couple weeks but i don't even know where to

29
00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:38,060
start because there's just so much in this like what where do you think we should start with this

30
00:02:38,060 --> 00:02:45,540
well I think just you know zooming out quite a bit and just looking at you know what is the real

31
00:02:45,540 --> 00:02:52,100
Epstein story um you know for starters anybody that says they they know the whole Epstein story

32
00:02:52,100 --> 00:02:57,440
is full of it because there's just so much we don't know and and from what we do know there's

33
00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:04,720
so many tangent tangential connections and the web of it is just very insane no pun intended of

34
00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:09,660
course, with Whitney Webb's wonderful book that sort of broke down, you know, all of this years

35
00:03:09,660 --> 00:03:15,380
ago about as thoroughly as one could. So I highly recommend checking out her work, both online and

36
00:03:15,380 --> 00:03:20,620
One Nation Under Blackmail for the real story. I'm not an Epstein expert. I just work with one

37
00:03:20,620 --> 00:03:26,980
who's like the premier. So I get a lot of, you know, osmosis, you know, thinking about Epstein.

38
00:03:27,220 --> 00:03:33,020
But I think the main thing for me that I think people miss with the Epstein story is, yeah,

39
00:03:33,020 --> 00:03:38,520
there was sex, blackmail, and illegal trafficking and prostitution,

40
00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:43,040
and a whole bunch of disgusting stuff with real victims and real people.

41
00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,140
And it's so sensational that it's hard sometimes to remember

42
00:03:47,140 --> 00:03:51,440
that there were real people involved, not just the bad people,

43
00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,420
but the people that were hurt.

44
00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:55,720
And it's a really sensational story.

45
00:03:56,100 --> 00:04:00,220
And I think by design, the story has always sort of focused

46
00:04:00,220 --> 00:04:01,980
on the sensationalism of it.

47
00:04:03,020 --> 00:04:14,040
You know, he's got this crazy island and they're doing occult rituals and, you know, using code words and eating jerky and pizza and all this insanity.

48
00:04:14,260 --> 00:04:16,460
And I think there's a ton of truth to that stuff.

49
00:04:16,940 --> 00:04:18,340
And it's really disturbing.

50
00:04:19,700 --> 00:04:23,760
But to me, I think the story and maybe it's just because of where my interests lie.

51
00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:32,660
But, you know, the technology angle, the science angle and the financial angle of the Epstein case are just severely under investigated.

52
00:04:33,020 --> 00:04:35,120
especially the financial angle.

53
00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:40,200
So that's where, you know, if I have any right to speak on this topic,

54
00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,660
you know, surely where the Bitcoin and the cryptocurrency networks,

55
00:04:44,940 --> 00:04:46,980
you know, combine with the Epstein network

56
00:04:46,980 --> 00:04:49,880
and why someone like Epstein would be interested in,

57
00:04:49,940 --> 00:04:52,200
you know, a technology like Bitcoin.

58
00:04:53,020 --> 00:04:58,660
You know, he's the money man of, you know, that network,

59
00:04:58,660 --> 00:05:06,200
of that, you know, power nexus that obviously has pretty significant control, if not influence,

60
00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:15,580
over American politics. And it seems to be a lot more than just that, but sort of this worldwide,

61
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:21,600
you know, power structure that influences world governments. And, you know, you look into some

62
00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,740
of these emails, there's some really telling things and, you know, that relate to that,

63
00:05:25,740 --> 00:05:32,560
Like Larry Summers, the former Treasury secretary, referring to Epstein as Mr. Money.

64
00:05:33,140 --> 00:05:47,600
You know, I mean, this is a guy that was running, you know, the Treasury at the most important financial powerhouse in the world, sending an email to this guy with, you know, very few credentials in the academic sense.

65
00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,700
And he's emailing him, asking him questions and calling him Mr. Money.

66
00:05:51,700 --> 00:06:02,020
You know, I mean, it's like this guy was the money man for this currency speculation network that sort of, you know, grew out of the mega group.

67
00:06:02,460 --> 00:06:06,040
Robert Maxwell, Glenn Maxwell's dad, Jimmy Goldsmith.

68
00:06:07,340 --> 00:06:18,660
And then, of course, Leslie Wexner, who is, you know, kind of the main financial beneficer benefactor for Epstein was one of the main ways that he got the majority of his money.

69
00:06:18,660 --> 00:06:24,140
and Epstein was sort of the money guy for these for these people. These people have billions of

70
00:06:24,140 --> 00:06:29,680
dollars, if not hundreds of millions of dollars. And, you know, they have to figure out a way to

71
00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:35,000
deal with the tax code to, you know, launder successfully to figure out how to hide illegal

72
00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:41,380
money to wash illegal money, to put it in legitimate ventures. And Epstein was the guy.

73
00:06:41,380 --> 00:06:46,680
I mean, he he was the guy for this network that understood the tax code better than everyone else,

74
00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,100
which is interesting as it relates to him talking about Bitcoin.

75
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,360
A lot of his Bitcoin discussion was talking about tax code.

76
00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:54,540
And no, you can't say that.

77
00:06:54,540 --> 00:07:04,540
Try not to use coin when doing ICO stuff because it brings up a bunch of legal gray areas and yada yada.

78
00:07:04,620 --> 00:07:09,480
But this guy, he was the money man for the people behind the control nexus.

79
00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:27,520
And, you know, he was heavily involved in what developed in 2008 and 2007 with the financial crisis at Bear Stearns. And he had this firm, I believe it was called Liquid Holdings, that got liquidated.

80
00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:40,480
But they were one of the first people that was really working on these collateralized debt obligations and doing these synthetic mortgage plays that obviously developed and spiraled out of control, which led to the huge crash.

81
00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:47,900
which of course again Larry Summers was one of the main guys behind the deregulation

82
00:07:47,900 --> 00:07:54,520
you know in the Glass-Steagall era that led to you know this stuff being able to be

83
00:07:54,520 --> 00:08:00,620
to be legal that people could split up these mortgages and play with them and take these

84
00:08:00,620 --> 00:08:08,440
huge risks and this you know this this new way this new kind of evolution of the junk bond

85
00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:13,800
that Mike Milken kind of created, you know, a decade prior, two decades prior,

86
00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,400
the modern iteration in the 2000s, you know, a lot of it was,

87
00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:23,120
let's play with mortgages, let's cut them up, let's create synthetic versions of these mortgages

88
00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,040
and speculate all over them and just blow it out into this big bubble.

89
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:27,360
And then it popped.

90
00:08:28,540 --> 00:08:35,320
And, you know, these people in the network of Epstein were, you know, pretty responsible

91
00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,440
for a lot of what went down at the great financial crisis.

92
00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:42,580
And, you know, for the listeners, if you've listened to me on the show before, you know,

93
00:08:42,620 --> 00:08:46,880
I've talked a lot about how it is absolutely not an accident that Bitcoin came, you know,

94
00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:55,540
right when the U.S., you know, monetary system needed a relief valve for the economic stimulus

95
00:08:55,540 --> 00:08:58,820
that came downstream of these great financial crisis.

96
00:08:58,820 --> 00:09:05,580
um you know obviously it's very convenient at the start of 2009 that you know this white paper comes

97
00:09:05,580 --> 00:09:11,860
out of nowhere and and here we go uh and then of course what happened in covid in 2020 you know

98
00:09:11,860 --> 00:09:17,520
bitcoin was was ready um right before the halvening that brings it down to its relative issuance below

99
00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:24,340
the rate of gold below the target inflation rate of of uh the dollar um that would be in may in 2020

100
00:09:24,340 --> 00:09:51,900
So right before that, we see, you know, the going direct reset with BlackRock and Donald Trump kind of putting together this plan of how do we deal with this stimulus? How do we get it into the right hands? And they created this whole plan, you know, months before there was any whisper of a virus. Again, very convenient place for Bitcoin to be ready, waiting to take on that, you know, be the debt sink, basically, for that massive monetary stimulus.

101
00:09:51,900 --> 00:10:04,940
So Epstein, you know, prior to 2020, obviously he's not around by then. But in 2008, he's right there. He's right in the smack of, you know, really everything that was going down in 2008.

102
00:10:04,940 --> 00:10:29,760
Right. And very interestingly, you know, what these emails have shown is that he was speaking in 2009 to John Brockman, who was the co-founder of the, you know, the Mindshift Conference and the Edge Foundation, which were these kind of like gatherings of scientific minds, you know, kind of the best of the best.

103
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:36,460
you know, Epstein kind of collected smart people, whether they were, you know, doctors or scientists

104
00:10:36,460 --> 00:10:44,040
or, you know, money people themselves like Summers or like a Brock Pierce. And in 09, he, you know,

105
00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:50,100
obviously after the network had launched, but I believe it was in August of 09, he sent an email

106
00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:55,960
to John Brockman saying, you know, it's time for a new financial, you know, system. It's time for a

107
00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:03,540
new alternative currency um this is what paypal set out to do initially you know this was this was

108
00:11:03,540 --> 00:11:08,920
what they set out to do a new world currency which of course again listeners that listened in that was

109
00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:15,680
kind of the finishing blow of the chain series that was you know hey maybe bitcoin and stable

110
00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:23,200
coins are the final culmination of paypal's quest to create a new world currency um and he was

111
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:29,340
talking about it right then, you know, in 2009. Now, again, let's just, we have to be very clear

112
00:11:29,340 --> 00:11:33,020
when we're talking about this stuff. He never specifically says he's talking about Bitcoin.

113
00:11:33,860 --> 00:11:38,820
You know, these are unencrypted emails. They're just, you know, he's probably shooting it off

114
00:11:38,820 --> 00:11:43,080
from his BlackBerry at the side of the pool, you know, doing sketchy shit. And, you know,

115
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:47,300
you can look at the way he types and, you know, they're very casual emails,

116
00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:53,100
but the implications are very, very big. And so to me, like that was kind of the one that

117
00:11:53,100 --> 00:11:59,780
blew my brain open where I was like, aha, like you just connected all of these tropes that I've been

118
00:11:59,780 --> 00:12:05,860
trying to connect. And I'd say I did for the most part, but trying to connect, you know,

119
00:12:05,860 --> 00:12:12,860
how does the Epstein network combine with the PayPal network and culminating all together at

120
00:12:12,860 --> 00:12:21,180
the same time as the Bitcoin network is launching off? Who really had the power, the technical chops,

121
00:12:21,180 --> 00:12:27,940
the economic chops and the influence the political influence and the banking influence to pull

122
00:12:27,940 --> 00:12:33,620
something like this off um and it's that network to me i don't think there's any other network that

123
00:12:33,620 --> 00:12:40,520
could if we want to sort of you know let's moonlight the idea that it was just the shadowy

124
00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:47,500
coder in in uh in his basement you know just a single guy who who did the bitcoin um white paper

125
00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:48,380
and the coding.

126
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,900
You know, if we ignore that possibility,

127
00:12:51,020 --> 00:12:53,840
which is, of course, an absolutely valid possibility.

128
00:12:55,060 --> 00:12:57,320
Again, if anyone's talking in absolutes here,

129
00:12:57,420 --> 00:12:58,280
they're full of shit.

130
00:12:58,480 --> 00:12:59,780
I mean, we just, we don't know.

131
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,840
There's no evidence that the Bitcoin network

132
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,160
came out of PayPal or the Epstein network.

133
00:13:06,780 --> 00:13:08,400
Just like there's actually no evidence

134
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,180
that it came out of a single solitary guy

135
00:13:11,180 --> 00:13:12,980
writing code in a UK basement

136
00:13:12,980 --> 00:13:14,800
or a California basement or whatever.

137
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:17,080
There's a lot of speculation.

138
00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:20,540
lots of good research that's been done trying to pin it down,

139
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,840
but there just isn't and there never will be.

140
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,860
And to me, you know, the fact that there never will be is also very telling.

141
00:13:29,860 --> 00:13:32,240
You know, we know the state that we're in,

142
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,080
the surveillance state that we exist in and operate in.

143
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,400
And if Bitcoin was this grand, you know,

144
00:13:38,500 --> 00:13:41,980
threat to this group's power that it was,

145
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:43,980
I think we would know who Satoshi is,

146
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,160
or certainly they would know who Satoshi is.

147
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,580
and Bitcoin would have been dealt with in a way

148
00:13:49,580 --> 00:13:51,100
that never would have allowed it

149
00:13:51,100 --> 00:13:52,560
to become a trillion dollar asset

150
00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:56,120
and be borderline too big to fail

151
00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,560
as it relates to American consumers

152
00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:02,500
and the American citizenry

153
00:14:02,500 --> 00:14:06,200
and certainly the institutions that profit off of them.

154
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:08,740
With fiat money constantly debasing,

155
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:10,520
wealth preservation isn't optional.

156
00:14:10,940 --> 00:14:12,440
That's why I recommend Swamp Bitcoin,

157
00:14:12,860 --> 00:14:14,460
a team of dedicated Bitcoiners

158
00:14:14,460 --> 00:14:15,900
who work with families and businesses

159
00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:18,440
to build and secure generational wealth with Bitcoin.

160
00:14:19,060 --> 00:14:20,520
Strong relationships with clients

161
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,300
are at the center of everything SWAN does.

162
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:24,840
A dedicated SWAN private wealth representative,

163
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,120
which is a real person that you can text and call,

164
00:14:27,420 --> 00:14:29,360
will help you build a Bitcoin wealth strategy

165
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,260
using SWAN's comprehensive platform of Bitcoin services,

166
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,740
including tax-advantaged retirement accounts,

167
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:36,420
advanced Bitcoin cold storage

168
00:14:36,420 --> 00:14:37,880
using collaborative self-custody,

169
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,920
inheritance planning with both trust and entity accounts,

170
00:14:41,380 --> 00:14:43,860
tax loss harvesting, asset-backed loans, and more.

171
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,060
Swan have helped over 100,000 clients since 2020,

172
00:14:47,540 --> 00:14:50,620
and if you're serious about acquiring and securing Bitcoin, I recommend Swan.

173
00:14:51,340 --> 00:14:58,160
Meet the team at swan.com forward slash WBD, which is swan.com forward slash WBD.

174
00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:01,660
If you're already self-custody of Bitcoin, you know the deal with hardware wallets.

175
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:06,640
Complex setups, clumsy interfaces, and a seed phrase that can be lost, stolen, or forgotten.

176
00:15:07,260 --> 00:15:08,400
Well, BitKey fixes that.

177
00:15:08,740 --> 00:15:12,740
BitKey is a multi-sig hardware wallet built by the team behind Square and Cash App.

178
00:15:12,740 --> 00:15:20,380
It packs a cryptographic recovery system and built-in inheritance feature into an intuitive, easy-to-use wallet with no seed phrase to sweat over.

179
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,020
It's simple, secure self-custody without the stress.

180
00:15:24,580 --> 00:15:27,580
And Time named Bitkey one of the best inventions of 2024.

181
00:15:28,540 --> 00:15:32,240
Get 20% off at bitkey.world when you use the code WBD.

182
00:15:32,780 --> 00:15:37,580
That's B-I-T-K-E-Y dot world and use the code WBD.

183
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,680
If you haven't tried out Club Orange yet, then now is the time.

184
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,500
It's my go-to place to find Bitcoiners whenever I'm traveling.

185
00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:46,220
Club Orange is a social app built for Bitcoiners

186
00:15:46,220 --> 00:15:48,660
where you can find local meetups and events in your area

187
00:15:48,660 --> 00:15:50,700
and find merchants that are accepting Bitcoin.

188
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,500
There are over 19,000 Bitcoiners on there

189
00:15:53,500 --> 00:15:54,820
and whether you're at home or traveling

190
00:15:54,820 --> 00:15:57,000
is a great place to keep in touch with Bitcoiners

191
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,120
from all over the world.

192
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:00,980
I've been using Club Orange since it was Orange Pill app

193
00:16:00,980 --> 00:16:02,000
and it really is awesome.

194
00:16:02,180 --> 00:16:04,300
So if you're on there, drop me a DM and say hi.

195
00:16:04,620 --> 00:16:06,720
And if you want to find out more and download the app,

196
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:08,660
just search for Club Orange on your app store

197
00:16:08,660 --> 00:16:10,620
or go to cluborange.org.

198
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,920
What if you could lower your tax bill and stack bitcoin at the same time?

199
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,120
Well, by mining bitcoin with Blockware you can.

200
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:22,360
New tax guidelines from the Big Beautiful Bill allow American miners to write off 100%

201
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:27,160
of the cost of their mining hardware in a single tax year. That's right, 100% write-off.

202
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,520
So if you have $100,000 in capital gains or income,

203
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,960
you can purchase $100,000 of miners and offset it entirely.

204
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,920
Blockware's mining as a service enables you to start mining bitcoin right now without lifting a

205
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:43,580
finger. Blockware handles everything from securing the miners to sourcing low-cost power to

206
00:16:43,580 --> 00:16:48,560
configuring the pool, they do it all. You get to stack Bitcoin at a discount every single day

207
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:54,960
while also saving big come tax season. Get started today by going to mining.blockwaresolutions.com

208
00:16:54,960 --> 00:17:00,300
forward slash WBD. Of course none of this is tax advice, speak to your accountant or tax advisor

209
00:17:00,300 --> 00:17:05,420
to understand how these rules apply to you and then head over to mining.blockwaresolutions.com

210
00:17:05,420 --> 00:17:10,640
forward slash WBD and you'll get one week of free hosting and electricity with each hosted miner

211
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:16,780
purchased. When you say like who could have pulled this off are you saying you think this came out of

212
00:17:16,780 --> 00:17:22,140
the PayPal mafia people the CIA do you think it was like an intelligence group that actually built

213
00:17:22,140 --> 00:17:29,520
Bitcoin or or do you think really this was like Epstein realizing there needed to be an alternative

214
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,560
and looking for something and finding Bitcoin?

215
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,100
I mean, that's a great question

216
00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:37,040
that I don't think we'll ever get an answer to.

217
00:17:37,140 --> 00:17:39,540
I think these emails give us kind of the closest,

218
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,060
you know, glimpse into that,

219
00:17:42,180 --> 00:17:43,380
but like, we'll never know.

220
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,320
I mean, we will never know where Bitcoin came from.

221
00:17:47,660 --> 00:17:49,840
Obviously, what is infinitely more important

222
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:50,960
is where it's going.

223
00:17:51,540 --> 00:17:53,360
And that's always been the case.

224
00:17:53,700 --> 00:17:55,960
And, you know, we have a lot to talk about here today,

225
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,200
but I think that's like the main point

226
00:17:58,200 --> 00:17:59,760
of why I was excited to come on.

227
00:17:59,820 --> 00:18:01,380
Well, also, it's just always great to talk to you, Danny.

228
00:18:01,780 --> 00:18:03,980
But, you know, the main thing I was really excited about

229
00:18:03,980 --> 00:18:06,900
to talk about now is just like, don't lose focus.

230
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,300
You know, where is Bitcoin going?

231
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,420
Where is it being pushed to?

232
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,060
Who is it going to benefit?

233
00:18:15,340 --> 00:18:18,660
You know, is this actually going to unlock this freedom,

234
00:18:19,220 --> 00:18:23,240
you know, kind of utopia because we have sound money

235
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,480
and that can be used on the internet?

236
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:30,920
or will it sort of unlock and enable, you know, the same networks that were running the dollar system

237
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:37,340
to have a really neat way to get out of their debt problem and, you know, kick the can down the road

238
00:18:37,340 --> 00:18:45,480
10 to 15 years, maybe 40 years at a very important time when technology is really hitting this kind of parabolic breakthrough

239
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:54,600
with autonomy, with AI, with, you know, robotics, just drone satellites, just internet, you know, architecture

240
00:18:54,600 --> 00:19:00,320
kind of breaking in the world of bits, breaking into the world of atoms as it's sort of happening.

241
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:06,460
You know, let's focus on that. Where is it going? So the question of was it Epstein? Was Satoshi

242
00:19:06,460 --> 00:19:11,760
Epstein? I think it's kind of a ridiculous question like on its face because he very clearly

243
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:18,380
wasn't a coder. Very clearly was, you know, in the emails buying books in 2018, you know, that,

244
00:19:18,380 --> 00:19:24,040
you know, was like Bitcoin for dummies and this. And I think a bit of that is sort of him being a

245
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:29,740
curious guy and, you know, wanting to see what was, well, what is the Bitcoin for dummies? What

246
00:19:29,740 --> 00:19:33,820
is the, you know, how do we reduce this for dummies? Let me check it out. But obviously,

247
00:19:33,820 --> 00:19:40,000
he knew very much about it. I mean, he was reaching out to Gavin Andreessen in 2011 to,

248
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:45,700
like, ask about what was going on with Bitcoin at the time. You know, again, that email to John

249
00:19:45,700 --> 00:19:53,000
Brockman saying it's time for a viable alternative currency. His connections with Amir and Adam Back

250
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:59,180
Amir Taki and Adam Back you know he he claimed multiple times in multiple emails that he met

251
00:19:59,180 --> 00:20:03,360
with the founders of Bitcoin and you know there are these kind of crazy guys that are willing to

252
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:10,160
go to jail for it and I'm not and you know so it's very clear pretty early on in the network cycle

253
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:14,920
he was hip to Bitcoin and had a pretty good understanding of it you know there's some pretty

254
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:19,900
pretty interesting emails in there where he where he talks about this so the idea that he was there

255
00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:22,540
at the very, very, very beginning is unknown.

256
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,120
I don't think he has the technical chops

257
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:26,040
to have created it,

258
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,220
but I do think he knew the people

259
00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:30,440
that did have the technical chops to create it.

260
00:20:31,060 --> 00:20:44,465
And you know the chain series sort of concludes with this idea that you know the most likely people that would benefit from it and have the ability to create it would be the paypal guys would be peter teal and max

261
00:20:44,465 --> 00:20:52,745
lefkin specifically and we know how close they were with with epstein specifically teal um and

262
00:20:52,745 --> 00:20:58,605
there's even emails with peter teal talking to epstein about you know the coming anti-bitcoin

263
00:20:58,605 --> 00:21:04,965
pressure in 2014, which I think, again, everybody read it wrong. Everybody read that email being

264
00:21:04,965 --> 00:21:09,385
like, look, Epstein and Teal are here to take down Bitcoin. They're talking about the coming

265
00:21:09,385 --> 00:21:14,885
pressure. It's like, no, they're sitting on their tower looking at like, oh, there's a new front

266
00:21:14,885 --> 00:21:20,645
developing in the Bitcoin space. And here comes the legislators that don't know that it is

267
00:21:20,645 --> 00:21:28,585
designed to beat the system and become the new reserve currency, a reserve asset, really.

268
00:21:29,385 --> 00:21:33,065
I think they're sort of like, we're expecting it and waiting for it.

269
00:21:33,185 --> 00:21:35,625
And then they saw it and they're sharing it with each other.

270
00:21:35,625 --> 00:21:39,485
And Teal's like, oh, is this the start of what we thought was going to happen?

271
00:21:39,625 --> 00:21:45,105
Which is like, actually the incumbent system pushing back on Bitcoin.

272
00:21:45,585 --> 00:21:46,665
That's how I read it.

273
00:21:46,725 --> 00:21:48,545
I don't see how you could read it any other way.

274
00:21:48,805 --> 00:21:53,085
I mean, I don't think the Epstein network or Teal, I mean, PayPal was playing around

275
00:21:53,085 --> 00:21:54,725
with Bitcoin by then publicly.

276
00:21:54,925 --> 00:21:55,665
Teal owned it.

277
00:21:56,125 --> 00:21:57,465
A lot of those guys owned it.

278
00:21:58,605 --> 00:22:04,165
you know, Balaji and co were working on their mining, you know, their ASICs. And a lot of the

279
00:22:04,165 --> 00:22:09,125
people in the Bitcoin network, you know, had intense connections to the PayPal network. Max

280
00:22:09,125 --> 00:22:17,325
Levchin was an investor in that Balaji, you know, ASIC project. So no, I don't think he's Satoshi.

281
00:22:17,785 --> 00:22:23,645
I don't. Yeah, no, I, Epstein's clearly not Satoshi. But I do think we should dispel some

282
00:22:23,645 --> 00:22:28,045
FUD here because I think there's a few things that are in the emails, like one saying he met

283
00:22:28,045 --> 00:22:32,505
the creators of Bitcoin. I think that could really be easier, easily be explained by maybe he met

284
00:22:32,505 --> 00:22:38,705
like Amir Taki, Gavin Andreessen or spokes Gavin Andreessen and put like chalked them up as the

285
00:22:38,705 --> 00:22:44,025
creators of Bitcoin, which they clearly weren't just like developers in the space early. I think

286
00:22:44,025 --> 00:22:51,365
in 2009, 2010, that's kind of an understandable take. But like the really interesting thing here

287
00:22:51,365 --> 00:22:55,225
is that there's becoming this connection, like especially on Twitter, maybe people who are newer

288
00:22:55,225 --> 00:22:59,485
to Bitcoin who think that this is kind of an issue that Epstein was in Bitcoin very early,

289
00:22:59,665 --> 00:23:02,065
maybe like had something to do with the developers back then.

290
00:23:02,165 --> 00:23:03,945
But really, that doesn't matter.

291
00:23:04,085 --> 00:23:05,485
Do you want to explain why?

292
00:23:07,185 --> 00:23:10,545
Well, it doesn't matter and it does matter.

293
00:23:10,545 --> 00:23:18,745
It does matter in the sense that it is very clear that this network was in on Bitcoin in

294
00:23:18,745 --> 00:23:24,805
the first epoch, which is the epoch that 50% of all Bitcoin were issued.

295
00:23:25,225 --> 00:23:27,505
And that's something that the chain looked at as well.

296
00:23:27,605 --> 00:23:29,765
You look at Charles Cascarilla of Paxos.

297
00:23:30,225 --> 00:23:36,205
He talks about running a mining operation out of a failed bank in Manhattan where he got free electricity.

298
00:23:36,205 --> 00:23:47,205
And he had enough GPUs and early ASICs where he was actually running, you know, he had over 25% of the hash rate of the network during the first epoch, right?

299
00:23:47,205 --> 00:23:55,225
You know, you look at Wenceslas Casares, who was incredibly involved in the PayPal network and, you know, formed Zappo.

300
00:23:55,465 --> 00:24:01,565
He has a hot wallet that's linked to his name that he published online that had a million Bitcoin flow through it.

301
00:24:01,965 --> 00:24:04,745
Right. So these guys were there at the beginning.

302
00:24:04,925 --> 00:24:15,425
This idea that Bitcoin was this complete immaculate conception and there were not bankers or intelligence or scummy people at the beginning is ridiculous.

303
00:24:15,425 --> 00:24:21,905
they were they were there um the difference though is that it was designed so that the

304
00:24:21,905 --> 00:24:28,725
issuance was not controlled by any of these people um specifically unlike uh you know an

305
00:24:28,725 --> 00:24:34,145
ethereum or something like that where there's a pre-mine and this stuff is distributed uh you

306
00:24:34,145 --> 00:24:40,925
know there's at least the idea the concept that this was distributed fairly um and that's important

307
00:24:40,925 --> 00:24:55,905
I think for it to kind of get the treatment from the market as it does as being kind of a commodity versus, you know, XRP that printed 100 billion tokens in the Genesis block, if it even is a Genesis block.

308
00:24:56,005 --> 00:25:02,045
But you know what I mean? It's like they just printed it, distributed it. Yes, they locked half away, but, you know, they were all created at the beginning.

309
00:25:02,165 --> 00:25:08,105
Bitcoin isn't like that. It's infinitely more like a commodity and you have to kind of put in work to get the Bitcoins out.

310
00:25:08,105 --> 00:25:12,905
But it is important that this network was there at the beginning because they probably hold a shit ton of Bitcoin.

311
00:25:13,385 --> 00:25:14,825
But they can't do anything with that Bitcoin.

312
00:25:14,925 --> 00:25:17,185
They can't change the rules because they have a load of Bitcoin.

313
00:25:17,465 --> 00:25:17,885
Well, right.

314
00:25:18,005 --> 00:25:26,185
But also that shows that if this is going to become the new reserve asset of the world, they might have 25 percent of the supply that we don't know about.

315
00:25:26,385 --> 00:25:31,145
And what if it's like, you know, we're seeing consolidation within that network.

316
00:25:31,145 --> 00:25:35,085
It's not like these networks are perfect and there's not infighting within them.

317
00:25:35,085 --> 00:25:42,625
um you know who knows where all that bitcoin went and who knows who has control of satoshi's wallets

318
00:25:42,625 --> 00:25:48,105
um you know all we have is these little data points these little emails these little things

319
00:25:48,105 --> 00:25:53,305
the the little bit of architecture that people have kind of designed to look at the blockchain

320
00:25:53,305 --> 00:25:58,085
and try to make guesses but like we don't really know and if this is going to be something that

321
00:25:58,085 --> 00:26:03,525
you know is a true social post away from becoming a 10 trillion dollar market cap

322
00:26:03,525 --> 00:26:08,825
well you know some of the worst people in the world might hold 10 percent 5 percent of the

323
00:26:08,825 --> 00:26:14,785
supply and we and we would have no idea so to say that that doesn't matter uh is ludicrous in the

324
00:26:14,785 --> 00:26:21,325
sense that well we just made these guys some of the richest people in the world and uh if this is

325
00:26:21,325 --> 00:26:26,205
going to plan out or pan out the way that we as bitcoiners think it will bitcoin will continue to

326
00:26:26,205 --> 00:26:31,225
appreciate immensely um and of course have boom bust like we're seeing now at bitcoin looks

327
00:26:31,225 --> 00:26:37,305
absolutely terrible right now um but you know like like these guys have a lot of power i mean

328
00:26:37,305 --> 00:26:42,485
if this becomes the next reserve asset of the world like it of course it's important but does

329
00:26:42,485 --> 00:26:48,105
that mean that they control consensus moving forward like not at the protocol level i mean

330
00:26:48,105 --> 00:26:52,905
it's not a proof of stake system holding a bunch of bitcoin does not mean you can censor the next

331
00:26:52,905 --> 00:27:00,585
person or restrict a transaction from going through or uh you know my favorite fud i guess is is you

332
00:27:00,585 --> 00:27:06,005
know this idea that they'll make more than 21 million it's like why would someone that controls

333
00:27:06,005 --> 00:27:12,365
that much of the asset want there to be more i mean it makes absolutely no sense um and so but

334
00:27:12,365 --> 00:27:19,585
but but yeah i mean it of course matters um you know if if gold had a had a fair launch like that

335
00:27:19,585 --> 00:27:24,705
but had a limited supply and there was someone that held you know let's say even two percent five

336
00:27:24,705 --> 00:27:31,125
percent of the supply you know it's a big deal i mean they can find ways to paperize it and not

337
00:27:31,125 --> 00:27:37,085
have to sell it they can find ways to financialize it and make um you know make that work for them

338
00:27:37,085 --> 00:27:41,425
without actually moving the asset at all which is one of the big things that worries me about

339
00:27:41,425 --> 00:27:47,605
where bitcoin is going as this like treasury asset um by the way love your interview with

340
00:27:47,605 --> 00:27:53,165
sailor i thought it was great i really enjoyed it that was great but and and i'm not you know

341
00:27:53,165 --> 00:28:07,465
I don't really care what happens to strategy, but I think the idea of like, OK, so this network has X amount of the next reserve asset and it is going to continue to inflate like crazy and it's not going to be distributed necessarily.

342
00:28:08,085 --> 00:28:14,685
It does matter who is there at the beginning. And now we have proof that this network was there at the beginning.

343
00:28:15,045 --> 00:28:19,205
It just was maybe not before the white paper came out. Maybe they weren't there.

344
00:28:19,205 --> 00:28:42,345
I think that's a good point that maybe they came in and saw it and went, we were, you know, experimenting already with alternative currencies. You know, that's something that's really important with this nexus that, again, I talked about quite a bit in the chain is the Steve Bannon, Brock Pierce, IGE company that, you know, Goldman took a big share of that Brock Pierce started after he left the Digital Entertainment Network.

345
00:28:42,345 --> 00:28:46,125
It blew up in flames because of a sexual assault pedophilia scandal.

346
00:28:47,045 --> 00:28:49,705
And he was really into World of Warcraft.

347
00:28:50,045 --> 00:29:01,805
And they developed a virtual goods system where they were, you know, finding value in these multi, you know, massive multiplayer online games like World of Warcraft.

348
00:29:01,805 --> 00:29:08,265
and literally mining gold in the game with these, you know, paying people minimum wage

349
00:29:08,265 --> 00:29:14,225
or way less, you know, but paying people to farm gold, virtual gold in the game, and

350
00:29:14,225 --> 00:29:17,885
then consolidating it and selling it on eBay for tons of money.

351
00:29:18,025 --> 00:29:20,085
And then eBay started to shut them down.

352
00:29:20,225 --> 00:29:23,865
PayPal said, you can't, you know, process your, you know, we're not letting you process

353
00:29:23,865 --> 00:29:24,385
this money.

354
00:29:24,385 --> 00:29:29,505
And they had to look for an alternative currency to sell the alternative currency, you know,

355
00:29:29,505 --> 00:29:33,965
But this network, you know, it's not an accident.

356
00:29:34,285 --> 00:29:48,825
You know, Pierce talks about this, which is noted in the chain, that they were working with economists to try out things in online games because the outcome was a game.

357
00:29:48,825 --> 00:29:55,905
So it didn't have real world effects if they inflated the supply of a rare item, if they only created one of a rare item.

358
00:29:55,905 --> 00:30:23,845
And they basically ran experiments on the players and the users of the world to figure out, you know, OK, how do we not piss everybody off but create scarcity? How do we, you know, do X, Y, Z within the digital space? And that network was very interested in that. I mean, they understood that the world was digitizing and that, you know, that there was an exceptionally good chance that the world economy would run on Internet rails, whether that's the dollar or some other alternative currency.

359
00:30:23,845 --> 00:30:30,865
and again that email from from epstein in 2009 to john brockman was like now's the time this was

360
00:30:30,865 --> 00:30:36,425
this was paypal's original vision the the technology is there we can actually do this

361
00:30:36,425 --> 00:30:43,185
um and there's actually a a super telling email it's probably my favorite in the whole bunch it

362
00:30:43,185 --> 00:30:52,585
was it it was released actually in november um but it's an email from um from uh jeffrey uh to

363
00:30:52,585 --> 00:31:01,185
Steve Bannon in 2018 talking about, you know, should we get rid of Powell or get rid of

364
00:31:01,185 --> 00:31:05,605
Mnuchin, you know, kind of talking about the Trump administration, you know, right before

365
00:31:05,605 --> 00:31:11,185
the going direct happens, right before COVID, you know, is December 2018, like the end of

366
00:31:11,185 --> 00:31:11,505
the year.

367
00:31:12,505 --> 00:31:17,325
And Bannon asked him, you know, should we get rid of Powell or Mnuchin, which is very

368
00:31:17,325 --> 00:31:20,725
strange that Bannon, who was, you know, a political advisor to Trump, you know, very

369
00:31:20,725 --> 00:31:24,845
early on, it was a big part of the campaign, but he kind of, at least publicly, sort of

370
00:31:24,845 --> 00:31:27,385
looked like he had kind of taken a step back from the administration.

371
00:31:28,245 --> 00:31:33,985
But, you know, there were reports, as this email notes, you know, like the Hill was reporting

372
00:31:33,985 --> 00:31:39,625
that Trump was discussing firing Powell because of interest rate hikes.

373
00:31:40,705 --> 00:31:42,905
And Epstein says, no, Mnuchin is OK.

374
00:31:43,105 --> 00:31:43,745
It's simple.

375
00:31:44,565 --> 00:31:49,645
Fifteen years ago, the geriatrics understood that the Internet was like telephones, connections

376
00:31:49,645 --> 00:31:50,145
only.

377
00:31:50,725 --> 00:31:53,685
Then my nerds taught them that cyber is a weapon.

378
00:31:54,345 --> 00:31:55,325
Same with the Fed.

379
00:31:55,765 --> 00:31:58,205
It's a weapon to be used with sophistication.

380
00:31:59,105 --> 00:32:01,265
Inflation is a concept from the 50s

381
00:32:01,265 --> 00:32:05,505
before the internet sent instantaneous info around the world.

382
00:32:06,165 --> 00:32:07,345
So dumb.

383
00:32:08,505 --> 00:32:11,225
Great Epstein banter there.

384
00:32:11,345 --> 00:32:12,505
I mean, it's pretty funny,

385
00:32:12,585 --> 00:32:14,245
but I think it really sets up this idea.

386
00:32:14,245 --> 00:32:15,345
Again, this is 2018.

387
00:32:15,805 --> 00:32:20,005
He's had extensive connections with the Bitcoin space.

388
00:32:20,005 --> 00:32:26,625
by then Bitcoin really had its big pop in 2017 where it really became kind of indisputable that

389
00:32:26,625 --> 00:32:31,105
it was going to be around for a bit that was really the you know to me I mean I got into it

390
00:32:31,105 --> 00:32:37,345
in 2017 but it seemed like that was kind of the okay we're we're we're crossing 10,000 you know

391
00:32:37,345 --> 00:32:42,465
we're going to be here for a bit and I think he understood he was a technologist and interested

392
00:32:42,465 --> 00:32:48,225
in technology and a money man and he knew that inflation was is an outdated concept and we have

393
00:32:48,225 --> 00:32:54,285
technology and algorithms and instantaneous information that can collude and create a

394
00:32:54,285 --> 00:33:01,505
monetary network with zero inflation interesting um you know these were his people so he's being

395
00:33:01,505 --> 00:33:06,605
asked by you know a close advisor to to trump you know do we need to get rid of some of the

396
00:33:06,605 --> 00:33:13,725
most important bankers in the world and he's like nah no cyber cyber is the weapon and and this is

397
00:33:13,725 --> 00:33:18,685
how we're going to do it. And again, he doesn't specifically say we're going to use Tether and

398
00:33:18,685 --> 00:33:22,365
Bitcoin and we're going to create the Bitcoin dollar and this guy Mark Goodwin is going to

399
00:33:22,365 --> 00:33:26,925
write a book about it. No, he doesn't say any of that shit, obviously. But what the fuck else is

400
00:33:26,925 --> 00:33:34,905
he talking about? I mean, it's very obvious that the fight for the future of the financial system

401
00:33:34,905 --> 00:33:40,865
and the global economy was through digital rails. It wasn't through these analog connections like

402
00:33:40,865 --> 00:33:47,345
early telephones it's through packets um it's through creating a monetary ledger um and an

403
00:33:47,345 --> 00:33:54,025
asset that lives on it and he understood that and he understood it early and early enough um

404
00:33:54,025 --> 00:33:59,925
to probably help guide it along i mean he's advising treasury secretaries he's advising

405
00:33:59,925 --> 00:34:06,565
um you know the people at um the digital currency initiative at mit that were helping you know take

406
00:34:06,565 --> 00:34:11,805
over the void left when the Bitcoin Foundation exploded, you know, you know, helping developers

407
00:34:11,805 --> 00:34:19,605
get money. I mean, he he really did understand where this was going. And I think he helped

408
00:34:19,605 --> 00:34:25,125
connect the people that needed to be connected to do it. He connected Larry Summers and and

409
00:34:25,125 --> 00:34:33,025
Brock Pierce at the Mindshift conference, like really early on 2011. I think he, you know, he

410
00:34:33,025 --> 00:34:37,325
He was obviously in the Bannon sphere and talking with Bannon.

411
00:34:37,445 --> 00:34:39,005
He was talking with the MIT guys.

412
00:34:39,085 --> 00:34:40,145
He was talking with Amir.

413
00:34:40,265 --> 00:34:42,585
He was talking apparently with Adam Back.

414
00:34:44,005 --> 00:34:48,465
Gavin Andreessen, at least it seems in the emails, said no, which is very interesting.

415
00:34:48,645 --> 00:34:49,705
So hats off to him.

416
00:34:50,785 --> 00:34:52,745
But, you know, he was all over the space.

417
00:34:52,745 --> 00:34:55,525
And his connections with Teal are pretty immense.

418
00:34:56,305 --> 00:34:59,645
And he was quite literally putting his money where his mouth was.

419
00:34:59,645 --> 00:35:03,005
He wasn't just coming up with these ideas or connecting people.

420
00:35:03,145 --> 00:35:05,185
I mean, he was investing in these companies.

421
00:35:05,985 --> 00:35:10,125
There's tons of portfolios and things strewn throughout.

422
00:35:10,765 --> 00:35:16,725
I mean, I almost kind of feel bad for some of the people that whose names are just in the files technically, right?

423
00:35:16,725 --> 00:35:30,285
Because it's like, you know, here's all the cryptocurrency partners, like the early version of blockchain capital, Brock Pearson and the Stevens brothers, you know, really the first VC firm that, you know, it was kind of behind all the early Bitcoin companies.

424
00:35:30,865 --> 00:35:41,725
You know, they have all of these investor decks just like all over the, you know, the files because they emailed them with Jeffrey because they were, you know, investing with him.

425
00:35:41,725 --> 00:35:45,405
And Jeffrey invested in, you know, in Coinbase.

426
00:35:46,725 --> 00:35:53,185
and was divested from it you know pretty quickly on a slight tangent here it is kind of funny

427
00:35:53,185 --> 00:35:59,385
actually you look at the block stream emails you know he was conversing a lot with austin hill of

428
00:35:59,385 --> 00:36:06,325
block stream and there's actually a uh you know so he he was working with reed hoffman who was

429
00:36:06,325 --> 00:36:11,325
another paypal mafia guy the founder of linkedin who was you know we know was was one of the the

430
00:36:11,325 --> 00:36:18,145
seed investors of Blockstream. And they were really good buddies, Epstein and Reid Hoffman.

431
00:36:18,725 --> 00:36:21,745
And but it's funny, there's this email with Austin Hill where he talks about like, hey,

432
00:36:21,745 --> 00:36:28,405
I see that you guys are putting money in like Stellar and Ripple. And like, there are competitors

433
00:36:28,405 --> 00:36:33,745
and we don't want like, like what they're doing is very bad for our ecosystem. Like we don't want

434
00:36:33,745 --> 00:36:39,225
this competition and basically ask them to divest because they were investing in competitors.

435
00:36:40,225 --> 00:36:43,665
So like that's another angle to this that's very interesting.

436
00:36:43,825 --> 00:36:48,185
To me, it seems very obvious Bitcoin is created to be the commodity that it is.

437
00:36:48,405 --> 00:36:50,685
But like it wasn't always a sure bet.

438
00:36:50,685 --> 00:36:58,665
It's pretty sure now that it has the, you know, mostly has the regulatory clarity of the only jurisdiction that really matters that it's a commodity.

439
00:36:59,065 --> 00:37:00,785
But like that wasn't true back then.

440
00:37:00,785 --> 00:37:11,585
And it really was, you know, a fight to see who would win and who would who would, you know, stand the test of time and actually have a chance at becoming an alternative currency.

441
00:37:12,245 --> 00:37:26,665
And so it was a bit more of a battle then between Bitcoin and these alternative these alternative ideas that even, you know, some of the most important people in the space at the time were like, don't you can't put money into our competitors.

442
00:37:26,665 --> 00:37:47,985
Like, what if we lose? It's so funny to think of that. But yeah, I mean, Epstein was all over this space, all over with Brock Pierce, who, you know, Tether is the most important, maybe the most important company in the world, like in many ways.

443
00:37:47,985 --> 00:37:56,685
like yeah okay they're not creating ai that's going to take over so much of of you know uh you

444
00:37:56,685 --> 00:38:01,525
know jobs and and how people interact with each other and interface with companies okay but they

445
00:38:01,525 --> 00:38:06,445
are investing in it um they're not creating the chips that um are going to run all the computers

446
00:38:06,445 --> 00:38:12,005
that run all this stuff like sure maybe nvidia is up there obviously apple and microsoft you know

447
00:38:12,005 --> 00:38:17,025
there's these software and hardware companies that are stalwarts that are exceptionally important

448
00:38:17,025 --> 00:38:24,425
but like what's more important than the the digital federal reserve i mean like the like

449
00:38:24,425 --> 00:38:30,465
the company that prints dollars and gets four and a half percent or whatever three percent um to

450
00:38:30,465 --> 00:38:37,845
issue dollar tokens i mean it's it's incredible what the the way that tether has squeaked through

451
00:38:37,845 --> 00:38:44,925
um where their bag man now who's all over the files as well howie lutnik is like running commerce

452
00:38:44,925 --> 00:38:47,905
for years and years, right?

453
00:38:47,945 --> 00:38:50,925
It's been Bitfinexed and a lot of these truthers

454
00:38:50,925 --> 00:38:55,545
who are like 99% correct about everything about Tether

455
00:38:55,545 --> 00:38:58,965
except the most important thing to me,

456
00:38:59,065 --> 00:39:01,985
which is that it's not a fraud in the typical sense

457
00:39:01,985 --> 00:39:04,965
where it's not this Ponzi scheme that's going to blow up

458
00:39:04,965 --> 00:39:06,465
because it's too important.

459
00:39:06,765 --> 00:39:09,385
It is way, way, way too important

460
00:39:09,385 --> 00:39:13,845
for dollar hegemonic advances.

461
00:39:14,925 --> 00:39:19,585
for the U.S. government to let Tether die.

462
00:39:20,125 --> 00:39:22,145
And so, I don't know, maybe I'll eat my words.

463
00:39:22,245 --> 00:39:22,805
Maybe it will.

464
00:39:22,925 --> 00:39:23,985
Maybe it finally will.

465
00:39:24,065 --> 00:39:24,965
This will be the cycle,

466
00:39:25,265 --> 00:39:26,945
and I'm totally wrong about all this,

467
00:39:27,065 --> 00:39:28,005
and Tether blows up.

468
00:39:28,085 --> 00:39:30,845
But it's like Tether resembles so much more

469
00:39:30,845 --> 00:39:35,405
of an intelligence operation than it does a fraud.

470
00:39:36,045 --> 00:39:39,205
And I think the Tether truthers for years and years

471
00:39:39,205 --> 00:39:41,005
have really done the research

472
00:39:41,005 --> 00:39:43,605
about how nefarious a lot of these people are

473
00:39:43,605 --> 00:39:47,265
and how they are working at the behest of the government in so many ways,

474
00:39:47,385 --> 00:39:48,845
freezing funds and this and that.

475
00:39:49,165 --> 00:39:53,125
But now they're like the largest private holder of gold in the world.

476
00:39:53,525 --> 00:39:55,445
They have 100,000 Bitcoin.

477
00:39:56,345 --> 00:39:58,665
They have a money printer.

478
00:39:59,185 --> 00:40:02,945
They've basically gotten the okay from at least the current administration.

479
00:40:02,945 --> 00:40:04,465
We'll see if that stays.

480
00:40:05,165 --> 00:40:08,645
And they have a big enough head start in the stablecoin space

481
00:40:08,645 --> 00:40:13,985
that, you know, I don't see the market cap being challenged imminently.

482
00:40:15,365 --> 00:40:17,845
Yeah, they're one of the most important companies in the world.

483
00:40:18,585 --> 00:40:19,625
Which is wild.

484
00:40:20,025 --> 00:40:20,925
Which is crazy.

485
00:40:21,805 --> 00:40:25,425
Obviously, some of us knew that that was coming a little earlier on than others.

486
00:40:25,425 --> 00:40:29,425
But, I mean, the gold thing is...

487
00:40:29,425 --> 00:40:32,945
I know I've been ranting a ton, but the gold thing is crazy.

488
00:40:33,305 --> 00:40:35,045
I don't know if you have any thoughts on it, but it's like,

489
00:40:35,185 --> 00:40:37,225
what's going on here?

490
00:40:37,325 --> 00:40:38,585
This is an interesting development.

491
00:40:38,645 --> 00:40:44,325
I remember Ansel, who, you know, I used to work with a bit at Bitcoin magazine.

492
00:40:44,545 --> 00:40:46,925
He runs some pretty good financial market stuff.

493
00:40:47,645 --> 00:40:57,645
And, you know, he had a tweet about, you know, pretty early on in the gold bull run that was like, what if the gold story is actually kind of accidentally a Bitcoin story?

494
00:40:58,185 --> 00:41:05,365
And it's really about Tether buying up tons of gold to get ready for the expansion of the tokenized gold system.

495
00:41:05,365 --> 00:41:07,065
You know, wouldn't that be kind of funny?

496
00:41:07,065 --> 00:41:09,365
and everybody was ripping him apart and being like,

497
00:41:09,445 --> 00:41:21,690
you so crazy they not buying enough This is a central bank and this china and and sure it is but also no he was right like this this is tether they bought a fucking

498
00:41:21,690 --> 00:41:27,670
shit ton of gold and they're getting ready i mean they they are the prime company set up for

499
00:41:27,670 --> 00:41:32,410
you know if this financial system you know goes into place which like i don't know what other

500
00:41:32,410 --> 00:41:39,990
choice the u.s government has why would trump uh let himself go into the midterms um you know

501
00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:57,290
With a collapsed economy, when there's an alternative where he could theoretically do the things we've discussed for years and use Bitcoin as this debt sink and print a bunch of money at zero rates to the stablecoin issuers and have the new buyers of debt issue stablecoins who hold a lot of Bitcoin and pump Bitcoin.

502
00:41:57,290 --> 00:42:12,630
I mean, to me, it's sort of a no brainer versus like, let's lose all the midterms, get everything all fucked up, have the economy crash, have the world, you know, take over US dollar hedge fund and we lose it to gold backed stable coins from China.

503
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:16,190
You know, I don't think they're going to let that happen.

504
00:42:16,410 --> 00:42:17,530
They're definitely not going to let that happen.

505
00:42:17,710 --> 00:42:20,350
And so Tether has emerged as too big to fail again.

506
00:42:20,990 --> 00:42:23,050
This episode is brought to you by Anchor Watch.

507
00:42:23,050 --> 00:42:27,690
The thing that keeps me up at night is the idea of a critical error with my Bitcoin cold storage

508
00:42:27,690 --> 00:42:32,050
and this is where Anchor Watch comes in. With Anchor Watch your Bitcoin is insured with your

509
00:42:32,050 --> 00:42:37,350
own A-plus rated Lloyds of London insurance policy and all Bitcoin is held in their time-locked

510
00:42:37,350 --> 00:42:41,650
multi-sig vaults. So you have the peace of mind knowing your Bitcoin is insured while not giving

511
00:42:41,650 --> 00:42:45,990
up custody. So whether you're worried about inheritance planning, wrench attacks, natural

512
00:42:45,990 --> 00:42:51,250
disasters or just your own silly mistakes, you're protected by Anchor Watch. Rates for fully insured

513
00:42:51,250 --> 00:42:56,550
custody start as low as 0.55% and are available for individual and commercial customers located

514
00:42:56,550 --> 00:43:01,610
in the US. Speak to AnchorWatch for a quote and for more details about your security options and

515
00:43:01,610 --> 00:43:08,090
coverage. Visit anchorwatch.com today. That is anchorwatch.com. Privacy was never a priority for

516
00:43:08,090 --> 00:43:14,010
mobile networks. For companies like AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon, data collection and monetization is

517
00:43:14,010 --> 00:43:18,950
the default. But Cape is changing that. Cape is a premium US mobile carrier with nationwide

518
00:43:18,950 --> 00:43:22,710
coverage designed from the ground up with privacy and security at the core.

519
00:43:23,350 --> 00:43:26,310
When you sign up, Cape collects the absolute minimum data required,

520
00:43:26,310 --> 00:43:28,950
stores it for the shortest time possible and never sells it.

521
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:32,310
They also make you significantly harder to track at the network level

522
00:43:32,310 --> 00:43:35,030
and protect against SIM swap attacks, which are becoming one of the biggest

523
00:43:35,030 --> 00:43:37,750
security risks out there, especially for Bitcoiners.

524
00:43:38,390 --> 00:43:40,950
Cape's SIM swap protection is fundamentally different.

525
00:43:40,950 --> 00:43:44,310
Instead of usernames and passwords, your account is secured by a 24-word

526
00:43:44,310 --> 00:43:46,550
passphrase similar to how Bitcoin wallet works.

527
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:50,810
No one can initiate a SIM swap or take control of your phone number except you.

528
00:43:51,390 --> 00:43:55,550
This isn't a burner phone or a workaround, it's a normal mobile service built properly.

529
00:43:56,030 --> 00:43:59,570
If you care about privacy and security, there is no better mobile carrier.

530
00:43:59,910 --> 00:44:06,750
To learn more and get 33% off your first six months, head to cape.co slash WBD and use code WBD at checkout.

531
00:44:07,270 --> 00:44:09,670
That's cape.co slash WBD.

532
00:44:09,810 --> 00:44:12,370
Do you wish you could access cash without selling your Bitcoin?

533
00:44:12,890 --> 00:44:13,930
Well, Ledder makes that possible.

534
00:44:13,930 --> 00:44:22,230
They're the global leader in Bitcoin-backed lending and since 2018 they've issued over $9 billion in loans with a perfect record of protecting client assets.

535
00:44:23,010 --> 00:44:30,270
With Ledin you get full-costal loans with no credit checks or monthly repayments, just easy access to dollars without selling a single sat.

536
00:44:31,110 --> 00:44:39,530
As of July 1st, Ledin is Bitcoin only, meaning they exclusively offer Bitcoin-backed loans with all collateral held by Ledin directly or their funding partners.

537
00:44:40,170 --> 00:44:42,390
Your Bitcoin is never lent out to generate interest.

538
00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:47,550
I recently took out a loan with Ledin. The whole process was super easy. The application took me

539
00:44:47,550 --> 00:44:52,110
less than 15 minutes and in a few hours I had the dollars in my account. It was really smooth.

540
00:44:52,750 --> 00:44:58,150
So if you need cash but you don't want to sell Bitcoin, head over to ledin.io forward slash WBD

541
00:44:58,150 --> 00:45:04,190
and you'll get 0.25% off your first loan. That's ledin.io forward slash WBD.

542
00:45:04,770 --> 00:45:09,070
The interesting thing is like we've been calling Tether sort of a de facto central bank for such a

543
00:45:09,070 --> 00:45:13,910
long time and so i didn't i didn't guess they were going to buy a massive amount of gold be the

544
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:17,490
largest private holder of gold in the world but no they're just behaving like a central bank like

545
00:45:17,490 --> 00:45:21,490
it all makes sense like they are just doing what all the other central banks are doing at this

546
00:45:21,490 --> 00:45:27,250
point and i think the tokenization of gold is really i don't really know what their end game is

547
00:45:27,250 --> 00:45:33,350
there um can we go back a little bit because that was an insane rant um you're awesome yeah sorry but

548
00:45:33,350 --> 00:45:38,610
i do want to ask a question about the paypal mafia still because there's tons of people that

549
00:45:38,610 --> 00:45:43,230
got into Bitcoin in, you know, 2010, 2009, like super, super early that are going to get rich that

550
00:45:43,230 --> 00:45:46,950
I might not like. And there's nothing I can do about that. Nothing I should do about that.

551
00:45:47,410 --> 00:45:52,770
But like, do you think there's a non-nefarious answer to why the PayPal guys got into Bitcoin

552
00:45:52,770 --> 00:45:58,090
so early in the sense that they were trying to build a monetary system for the world? They were

553
00:45:58,090 --> 00:46:01,030
obviously going to be paying attention to anything like Bitcoin that did come out.

554
00:46:01,430 --> 00:46:04,890
Is there no explanation where they just spotted it early and thought this is interesting?

555
00:46:05,310 --> 00:46:07,110
I should buy some while it's really cheap.

556
00:46:08,610 --> 00:46:16,310
Well, I think the answer sort of lies in the words of Teal, which is interesting because, you know, he says a lot of things that are obviously not true.

557
00:46:16,310 --> 00:46:18,270
Like, I'm a libertarian and blah, blah, blah.

558
00:46:18,350 --> 00:46:22,670
And it's like, no, you work with the state like you're on the Bilderberg Steering Committee.

559
00:46:22,670 --> 00:46:23,630
Like, what are you talking about?

560
00:46:24,590 --> 00:46:29,130
But, you know, he talks about how competition is for losers.

561
00:46:29,790 --> 00:46:34,810
And that is how you lose profits is entering an environment with competition.

562
00:46:34,810 --> 00:46:41,490
um you know find something that no one else does create it build it offer it and dominate it

563
00:46:41,490 --> 00:46:47,290
become the monopoly of the thing that you offer that no one else does and that is what paypal did

564
00:46:47,290 --> 00:46:53,150
i mean you have to tip your hat these guys are the the ultra spooks of of the the modern world

565
00:46:53,150 --> 00:46:58,490
but you have to kind of tip your hat sometimes and be like okay paypal did it you know levchin

566
00:46:58,490 --> 00:47:05,470
studied distributed systems and cryptography and he meets up with teal um and uh you know they have

567
00:47:05,470 --> 00:47:11,990
a breakfast one morning and he tells him i want to you know build the cryptography for uh you know

568
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:19,990
sending money um you know using using palm pilots that was the initial idea and they he jumped on it

569
00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:24,350
and they were like that's an amazing idea i'm a currency speculator that's what teal did you know

570
00:47:24,350 --> 00:47:33,190
His first fund was a hedge fund that dealt with, you know, Forex currency, you know, markets.

571
00:47:33,930 --> 00:47:38,810
And they knew right away that, hey, actually, we can blow this out.

572
00:47:39,570 --> 00:47:41,150
I shouldn't say right away, actually.

573
00:47:41,150 --> 00:47:50,810
It actually came when Reid Hoffman joined and when David Sachs, who's now running crypto and AI for Trump, when they both joined, you know, they weren't founders.

574
00:47:50,810 --> 00:47:59,590
it was you know mostly Levchin and Teal but they decided like hey you know we are the we're in

575
00:47:59,590 --> 00:48:04,930
Silicon Valley this is where all the PayPal or sorry all the Palm Pilot users of the world are

576
00:48:04,930 --> 00:48:09,470
if we build this thing as a Palm Pilot native thing like great our like target audience is like

577
00:48:09,470 --> 00:48:16,330
40 bros that live in Silicon Valley whereas if we use email everyone has email and literally

578
00:48:16,330 --> 00:48:23,090
the PayPal idea of emails was just the backup. Like that was just the way to access if your

579
00:48:23,090 --> 00:48:28,370
Palm Pilot got lost. Like they had a backup system that used email where you could send money if your

580
00:48:28,370 --> 00:48:33,470
Palm Pilot infrared, you know, doohickey wasn't working. It was literally just like, you know,

581
00:48:33,490 --> 00:48:39,430
the backup. And then they're like, let's focus on that and let's grow it out like that. And they

582
00:48:39,430 --> 00:48:45,030
were correct. And what people never understand about PayPal is they were the first people to

583
00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:51,790
dollarize the internet they made the dollar via paypal and ebay who later bought them um you know

584
00:48:51,790 --> 00:48:56,590
the the native currency of the internet was the dollar that's extremely important i mean as it

585
00:48:56,590 --> 00:49:02,970
relates to you know these again these are decade-long plans the dollar system new technology

586
00:49:02,970 --> 00:49:10,710
is coming a lot of this um you know communication technology will lead to uh new new ways to uh

587
00:49:10,710 --> 00:49:16,830
spend and transact financially. PayPal understood that. They dominated it. They took over. And they

588
00:49:16,830 --> 00:49:21,430
not only dominated it within the U.S., but throughout the world, they made the U.S. dollar

589
00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:27,990
the de facto currency of the internet. So there's the rant there. How does that relate to your

590
00:49:27,990 --> 00:49:32,350
question? They're already saying that they're not going to let competitors into the space.

591
00:49:32,450 --> 00:49:37,410
You find the space, you dominate the space, and you kill the competitors. Why would this group of

592
00:49:37,410 --> 00:49:42,310
people that understood that there was a viable alternative currency that was that was being born

593
00:49:42,310 --> 00:49:45,970
that was now starting to get a little bit of a market cap and get a little bit of a network

594
00:49:45,970 --> 00:49:53,670
um bitcoin was a lot more fragile than than it is now and rather than embracing it uh they could

595
00:49:53,670 --> 00:50:00,390
have done things to try to displace it um in line with this idea of let's not have competitors and

596
00:50:00,390 --> 00:50:06,730
they didn't do that i mean paypal flirted with doing bitcoin stuff in 2014 like there are um

597
00:50:06,730 --> 00:50:18,350
There's like deleted like commercials that they made that reference Bitcoin payments that they ended up taking that out and not not delivering that option.

598
00:50:18,350 --> 00:50:30,630
And there's a lot of interesting interviews with like David Marcus, who's at LightSpark now, who was at PayPal then talking about, you know, how they were interested in, you know, using Bitcoin early on.

599
00:50:30,950 --> 00:50:34,490
And Teal and Epstein are emailing about Bitcoin in 2014.

600
00:50:34,490 --> 00:50:57,710
He bought it then. That whole network is all over it. They would not let it let it blossom. They wouldn't invest their money into it. They wouldn't be pushing it as this altruistic good or this potential commodity replacement if they thought it was a real threat to their model rather than something that could extend their their dominance.

601
00:50:57,710 --> 00:51:03,650
and so I do think it's very possible that they weren't behind it and they saw it and they went

602
00:51:03,650 --> 00:51:10,710
actually we can use this better than everybody else by you know tweaking a couple things and

603
00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:18,050
actually there's an interesting email there um uh let me just find it here um where he's talking

604
00:51:18,050 --> 00:51:28,030
about he's talking to bill gross um who is the the guy that founded idea labs and idea labs is

605
00:51:28,030 --> 00:51:34,830
this like southern california incubator that was the first investor the first institutional investor

606
00:51:34,830 --> 00:51:43,370
in paypal um and paypal was initially funded with a million dollar um fund from teal himself from his

607
00:51:43,370 --> 00:51:47,690
from his hedge fund that he gave basically to him and Levchin to start the company.

608
00:51:47,810 --> 00:51:51,190
But the first real investor was this incubator Idea Labs.

609
00:51:52,250 --> 00:52:00,210
And Bill Gross, one of the co-founders with him was Bill Elkis, who was the guy that led

610
00:52:00,210 --> 00:52:01,770
the investment into PayPal.

611
00:52:02,010 --> 00:52:03,710
He was the signee on that.

612
00:52:03,710 --> 00:52:11,110
Also, turns out, he was the co-signee of the Jay Epstein Foundation and was very close

613
00:52:11,110 --> 00:52:11,630
to Epstein.

614
00:52:11,630 --> 00:52:14,370
They had known each other since 85.

615
00:52:15,370 --> 00:52:19,250
And there's this exchange between Epstein and Bill Gross

616
00:52:19,250 --> 00:52:27,130
where he talks to Jeff, and they get connected in 2013.

617
00:52:27,750 --> 00:52:31,370
And he says, I'd love to talk to you about my new currency idea.

618
00:52:32,410 --> 00:52:35,650
And they talk about Bill Elkis, and they have this little bit of an exchange.

619
00:52:35,650 --> 00:52:43,730
and um you know they they literally bring up you know are you thinking of doing this with brock

620
00:52:43,730 --> 00:52:49,110
pierce and bill gross says i don't know brock pierce it's very interesting that he says that

621
00:52:49,110 --> 00:52:55,690
because brock pierce at the time was actually running a fund with bill with with bill elkus

622
00:52:55,690 --> 00:53:03,410
um under his clearstone ventures which was a spinoff from idea labs and um pierce was was

623
00:53:03,410 --> 00:53:07,790
running this fund with William Quigley that was the Clearstone Ventures gaming fund.

624
00:53:09,290 --> 00:53:14,390
And that was sort of a spinoff of when he got replaced by Steve Bannon at IGE when they

625
00:53:14,390 --> 00:53:15,810
were doing the World of Warcraft stuff.

626
00:53:16,030 --> 00:53:20,710
He got sucked into this world and he started this online gaming fund.

627
00:53:21,370 --> 00:53:22,910
And so Bill Gross is reaching out to Epstein.

628
00:53:23,030 --> 00:53:25,870
He's like, hey, I have this new idea for a currency.

629
00:53:26,410 --> 00:53:29,570
He brings up, Epstein says, you should talk to Brock Pierce.

630
00:53:30,510 --> 00:53:32,510
And Bill Gross says, I don't know Brock Pierce.

631
00:53:32,510 --> 00:53:37,630
obviously you know he it's very close in his network that he could he could get to know Pierce

632
00:53:37,630 --> 00:53:43,410
very well because he's working with one of his best friends Bill Elkis and in this email after

633
00:53:43,410 --> 00:53:49,230
he says you should talk to Brock Pierce Epstein writes to Bill Gross it just randomly turns and

634
00:53:49,230 --> 00:53:55,910
starts talking about Bitcoin and so in 2013 after discussing I have this new idea for a currency

635
00:53:55,910 --> 00:54:00,890
you should talk to Brock Pierce and then it just randomly cuts to discussing Bitcoin and Epstein

636
00:54:00,890 --> 00:54:08,190
says this. He says, this is May 30th, 2013, Epstein to Bill Gross. The good is that Bitcoin

637
00:54:08,190 --> 00:54:13,610
uses an algorithm to limit supply. Unlike the variable of gold or other commodities. However,

638
00:54:13,990 --> 00:54:18,930
two main issues. One, the government doesn't like it. Money laundering, money transmitting,

639
00:54:19,090 --> 00:54:24,270
aiding and abetting all types of crime, etc. Two, all transactions are arguably taxable

640
00:54:24,270 --> 00:54:30,530
and therefore extra tricky. The Bitcoin guys came to see me early in the process and made it clear

641
00:54:30,530 --> 00:54:33,070
they were all willing to go to jail for their ideas.

642
00:54:33,650 --> 00:54:34,310
I'm not.

643
00:54:34,950 --> 00:54:36,570
But there is a way to do it.

644
00:54:36,810 --> 00:54:39,290
But it turns the Bitcoin model on its head.

645
00:54:39,910 --> 00:54:40,770
Talk to you soon.

646
00:54:41,110 --> 00:54:42,270
So that's 2013.

647
00:54:43,030 --> 00:54:46,090
They're talking about, hey, how can we flip this model on its head?

648
00:54:46,150 --> 00:54:47,050
I have this idea.

649
00:54:47,190 --> 00:54:48,630
You got to talk to Brock Pierce,

650
00:54:49,470 --> 00:54:52,830
who's buddies with Bill Elkis, who we're both buddies with.

651
00:54:53,690 --> 00:54:56,990
And Tether gets formed the next year in 2014,

652
00:54:57,990 --> 00:55:00,490
founded by Brock Pierce.

653
00:55:00,530 --> 00:55:04,390
and Reeves and Sellers,

654
00:55:04,550 --> 00:55:06,670
but then the kind of fourth guy that joins on,

655
00:55:06,790 --> 00:55:09,810
technically I've been corrected by Craig Sellers personally

656
00:55:09,810 --> 00:55:13,590
that William Quigley was actually not a co-founder of Tether,

657
00:55:13,710 --> 00:55:16,190
but he came on pretty promptly after.

658
00:55:16,530 --> 00:55:18,650
Him and Brock Pierce worked on that fund together

659
00:55:18,650 --> 00:55:21,150
under Elkis at Clearstone,

660
00:55:21,150 --> 00:55:24,250
and he comes on and William Quigley considers himself

661
00:55:24,250 --> 00:55:25,570
one of the founders of Tether,

662
00:55:25,690 --> 00:55:28,110
but apparently the other Tether boys do not.

663
00:55:28,110 --> 00:55:34,750
but then they go on and they create Tether which kind of flips the Bitcoin model on its head

664
00:55:34,750 --> 00:55:41,810
and sort of this new idea of a currency that Bill Gross had Bill Gross is like an incredibly

665
00:55:41,810 --> 00:55:48,150
important guy in the in the in the tech space who was you know kind of a an uncle figure for a lot

666
00:55:48,150 --> 00:55:54,650
of these pretty important companies early on PayPal absolutely included and he went on to then form

667
00:55:54,650 --> 00:56:00,170
near intelligence, which became one of the largest data brokers and trackers of human

668
00:56:00,170 --> 00:56:05,090
and data in the world. It's this huge, you know, kind of think like a primordial pound here.

669
00:56:06,210 --> 00:56:10,130
But these guys are, I mean, they're just discussing very openly in these emails,

670
00:56:10,330 --> 00:56:13,910
like, how do we flip the Bitcoin thing on its head? How do we create a new currency? Hey,

671
00:56:13,910 --> 00:56:18,970
you should talk to Brock Pierce. Oh, you know, Bill Elkis. And it's like, they're the PayPal guys.

672
00:56:19,070 --> 00:56:22,310
They were the money behind PayPal. They were the incubators behind PayPal.

673
00:56:22,310 --> 00:56:28,270
you know these guys are all there they could see you know to your point of okay maybe they didn't

674
00:56:28,270 --> 00:56:35,150
start it but did they try to co-opt it you know I to me the tether model doesn't work unless there

675
00:56:35,150 --> 00:56:40,750
is extreme belief that bitcoin will monetize excessively because it's sort of this play that

676
00:56:40,750 --> 00:56:46,790
the dollar will continue to depreciate relative to bitcoin so we have this huge bitcoin holdings

677
00:56:46,790 --> 00:56:58,390
And we can use Tether to not artificially necessarily, but to by creating more dollars of these digital tokens, what else are you using them for other than trading and going in and out of Bitcoin?

678
00:56:58,590 --> 00:57:06,670
So it becomes this way to generate more liquidity in dollars in the Bitcoin space and quite literally tether the Bitcoin price to the US dollar price.

679
00:57:06,670 --> 00:57:16,050
To me, that's not a necessarily like a mutualistic bad relationship with Bitcoin.

680
00:57:16,050 --> 00:57:30,630
You could argue that it does. And a lot of people do. A lot of the hijacking Bitcoin people talk excessively about how Tether is this big fraud. And it's, you know, well, you know, really only started doing this in 2017 when it picked the winner of the block size war. It was Tether that did it.

681
00:57:31,390 --> 00:57:33,930
But to me, I think the story is a lot deeper than that.

682
00:57:33,930 --> 00:57:44,970
And these guys understood that there was going to be economic debasement that would threaten the U.S. dollar system because of just the math of X trillion dollars of debt.

683
00:57:45,050 --> 00:57:48,610
It's obviously gone up exceptionally since these systems were even put in place.

684
00:57:49,050 --> 00:57:57,250
But to me, it doesn't seem like Tether or PayPal has any interest in killing Bitcoin because it actually helps them a lot because they own a shit ton of it.

685
00:57:57,250 --> 00:57:59,190
And so why would they hurt this system?

686
00:57:59,190 --> 00:58:06,390
um how can we try to monetize it and create a you know a profit model around something that

687
00:58:06,390 --> 00:58:11,270
doesn't have a profit model other than just hold and watch the asset appreciate you know you have

688
00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:18,070
to sell you have to distribute you have to you know find uh income right and so paypal and tether

689
00:58:18,070 --> 00:58:23,790
and and this group that is immensely connected at its origins understood how they could build a

690
00:58:23,790 --> 00:58:28,290
system that kind of flipped the bitcoin thing on its head when you look at what tether is today

691
00:58:28,290 --> 00:58:34,750
it has i mean it's it's an important part of like the bitcoin story that is now has like regulatory

692
00:58:34,750 --> 00:58:39,530
clarity in the u.s at least but like go back to 2016 2017 it didn't at all it was under massive

693
00:58:39,530 --> 00:58:45,890
scrutiny yeah do you think um what was sort of well that's that was going to be my question do

694
00:58:45,890 --> 00:58:51,150
you think the kind of epstein paypal mafia connection is what allowed it to kind of get

695
00:58:51,150 --> 00:58:55,710
through that period where like i think who was it the new york fed were trying to sue not the new

696
00:58:55,710 --> 00:58:56,130
No offense, sorry.

697
00:58:56,210 --> 00:58:57,950
The New York DA suit.

698
00:58:58,250 --> 00:58:59,050
Yeah, the SDNY.

699
00:58:59,710 --> 00:58:59,890
Yeah.

700
00:59:00,210 --> 00:59:00,450
Yeah.

701
00:59:01,810 --> 00:59:03,150
I think it's theater.

702
00:59:03,350 --> 00:59:04,730
I think a lot of this stuff is theater.

703
00:59:04,970 --> 00:59:08,690
I think the other big story that was going on at that time was Facebook's Libra.

704
00:59:08,970 --> 00:59:11,550
And they were going to create this basket of currencies.

705
00:59:11,550 --> 00:59:14,610
Then it turned into a stable coin, a US dollar stable coin.

706
00:59:15,310 --> 00:59:19,230
And, you know, immediately upon Facebook, which, again, we know so much about their intelligence

707
00:59:19,230 --> 00:59:21,030
connections at their origin as well.

708
00:59:21,030 --> 00:59:28,330
this idea that the US government wouldn't want the most active website with the most active

709
00:59:28,330 --> 00:59:37,570
monthly users to create a US dollar you know asset that is totally surveillable and seizeable

710
00:59:37,570 --> 00:59:43,030
and freezable and used by the world like the fact that the Senate like called them in like

711
00:59:43,030 --> 00:59:47,690
immediately upon the announcement of it and did this whole you're threatening the US dollar system

712
00:59:47,690 --> 00:59:48,850
and doing all this bullshit.

713
00:59:49,010 --> 00:59:51,310
It's like, why the hell wouldn't they want that?

714
00:59:51,590 --> 00:59:52,870
You know, why wouldn't they want that?

715
00:59:52,890 --> 00:59:55,430
It doesn't threaten the power structures of the Fed at all.

716
00:59:55,990 --> 00:59:57,470
Well, was that not when they were trying to do it

717
00:59:57,470 --> 00:59:59,150
with like a basket of different things?

718
00:59:59,150 --> 01:00:01,290
They wanted to have like gold in there, different currencies.

719
01:00:01,610 --> 01:00:03,350
Well, yeah, it was going to be, you know,

720
01:00:03,530 --> 01:00:06,090
the euro and the pound.

721
01:00:06,470 --> 01:00:08,990
And, you know, I think there was a bunch of different discussions.

722
01:00:08,990 --> 01:00:11,350
And the hard part about talking about Libra

723
01:00:11,350 --> 01:00:13,790
is it literally like changed names and changed ideas

724
01:00:13,790 --> 01:00:15,150
and changed lead developers.

725
01:00:15,150 --> 01:00:16,490
And it just moved around so much.

726
01:00:16,490 --> 01:00:18,250
It's hard to say specifically.

727
01:00:18,410 --> 01:00:24,150
But initially, when that first happened, the first white paper and getting called to Congress, it was a basket of currencies.

728
01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:30,130
And it's hilarious to me that the U.S. government would pretend that they didn't want that.

729
01:00:30,290 --> 01:00:33,930
Now, I get other central banks not wanting it, which is also true.

730
01:00:34,170 --> 01:00:35,230
I mean, there was a lot of talk.

731
01:00:35,310 --> 01:00:40,210
I think Mark Carney, who's now the president of Canada, was running the Bank of England at the time.

732
01:00:40,210 --> 01:00:46,190
and um he talked about you know how this is a threat to you know if it gets put in this basket

733
01:00:46,190 --> 01:00:50,630
and then we create extreme monetary velocity because it's a digital asset and then they have

734
01:00:50,630 --> 01:00:58,010
200 million active users and um you know this could become a threat to like our financial um

735
01:00:58,010 --> 01:01:02,730
you know sovereignty basically and i understand everyone else being involved in the libra project

736
01:01:02,730 --> 01:01:07,190
the basket of currencies pissing their pants but the u.s government it's like you guys obviously

737
01:01:07,190 --> 01:01:13,230
created Facebook and why wouldn't you want this? To me, it was just a lot of theater about like,

738
01:01:13,750 --> 01:01:15,910
okay, well, if there's going to be centralization-

739
01:01:15,910 --> 01:01:20,050
We've got to go back. You say so many things that I've got questions on.

740
01:01:20,210 --> 01:01:24,170
You say like the US government obviously created Facebook. Is that true?

741
01:01:25,370 --> 01:01:32,950
Yeah. I mean, the LifeLog story of kind of this idea that, you know, the day the LifeLog

742
01:01:32,950 --> 01:01:39,430
project was shuttered which was this darpa project um that basically was to create a database an id

743
01:01:40,070 --> 01:01:45,670
pictures um a life log you know of every person of every citizen in the united states the day

744
01:01:45,670 --> 01:02:04,655
that was shuttered was the day that facebook was launched um and um there an amazing article by um by whitney webb about the military origins of facebook and it is a crazy it a lot to like accept of course this this idea that like is

745
01:02:04,655 --> 01:02:10,775
intelligence really in the private sector like this like doing social networks and like

746
01:02:10,775 --> 01:02:19,175
is the remnants of DARPA and the CIA like, you know, actually the company that Mark Zuckerberg

747
01:02:19,175 --> 01:02:26,075
is running. And there's a lot of like suspension of disbelief to sort of accept the premise that

748
01:02:26,075 --> 01:02:31,155
maybe it's true. But when you read about it, I mean, definitely I urge everyone to read it and

749
01:02:31,155 --> 01:02:36,735
make the decision for themselves. It's like pretty undeniable, I think. And, you know, again,

750
01:02:36,735 --> 01:02:42,095
does it matter who created Facebook just like who doesn't matter who created Bitcoin like no it

751
01:02:42,095 --> 01:02:45,975
doesn't really but at the end of the day where is it going and what is it doing and what does it

752
01:02:45,975 --> 01:02:52,375
enable and it created the first it created consent for uh you know the digital ID it created the

753
01:02:52,375 --> 01:02:57,415
first kind of web of interconnectivity between all these people these spokes of people on the

754
01:02:57,415 --> 01:03:02,855
internet I mean it's it's absolutely proven that they have IDs for people that don't even have

755
01:03:02,855 --> 01:03:08,715
um you know uh accounts on facebook like they were able to just sort of map everybody that's

756
01:03:08,715 --> 01:03:14,075
interacted with each other and create um you know through our consent right i mean i was all over

757
01:03:14,075 --> 01:03:19,335
facebook when i was like a child and in high school and came out and tagging yourself in

758
01:03:19,335 --> 01:03:25,395
tagging myself and putting like pick like squares over my face and being like this is me and like

759
01:03:25,395 --> 01:03:30,575
this is my grandma and this is my best friend and i'm at camp and i'm this and just the web of

760
01:03:30,575 --> 01:03:39,455
connections that that whole network created plays a huge role in, you know, like the Bitcoin is

761
01:03:39,455 --> 01:03:44,255
pseudo anonymous. But if you have all of this just crap laying around that you were kind of

762
01:03:44,255 --> 01:03:51,915
careless about all over the Internet, it becomes a lot easier to sort of, you know, analyze and do

763
01:03:51,915 --> 01:03:56,235
heuristic analysis to figure out, you know, what everybody's doing on the Internet. And the Internet's

764
01:03:56,235 --> 01:04:00,475
really hard to be private, like not because there aren't technologies to be private on the Internet,

765
01:04:00,575 --> 01:04:04,615
But like there's so much lossiness in the process of trying to be private.

766
01:04:04,615 --> 01:04:17,635
And when you've created so much evidence and breadcrumbs through social networks that you consented to giving your information to and didn't really think about why that would be a bad idea.

767
01:04:19,375 --> 01:04:29,495
Yeah. And so so anyways, I think it's I think it's pretty, pretty proven that that there was a military origin to the background of Facebook.

768
01:04:29,495 --> 01:04:35,335
and there's more to it um i i i haven't read the article in a little bit and i i don't exactly

769
01:04:35,335 --> 01:04:40,135
remember but um there there's there's a lot more to it than just the day that it shuttered was the

770
01:04:40,135 --> 01:04:44,395
day that it opened that shared some advisors and some people left from darpa to then go

771
01:04:44,395 --> 01:04:51,135
and work um directly at facebook um but but regardless right like the u.s government

772
01:04:51,135 --> 01:04:55,215
understands the importance of facebook being basically the face of the internet for like

773
01:04:55,215 --> 01:04:59,915
billions of people i mean at least a billion people like a lot of places in the world like

774
01:04:59,915 --> 01:05:03,675
that's how you it's kind of the american online portal like that's how you get on the internet

775
01:05:03,675 --> 01:05:08,475
it's like you use facebook it's a lot of times it's free you can't access the internet but you

776
01:05:08,475 --> 01:05:14,395
can access facebook like with a phone um and so like why wouldn't the u.s government want there

777
01:05:14,395 --> 01:05:20,535
to create a u.s dollar asset that runs around on its rails that users in africa can send to each

778
01:05:20,535 --> 01:05:25,235
other for free with their smartphones. Like, why wouldn't they want to extend dollar hedge fund in

779
01:05:25,235 --> 01:05:29,835
that way? Of course they would. But to me, I looked at it as this sort of like, well, this is how we

780
01:05:29,835 --> 01:05:36,395
create consent for what we really want to do. And we have to create the regulatory environment and

781
01:05:36,395 --> 01:05:41,195
use the government as the enabling environment to create the system that we really want. So we'll

782
01:05:41,195 --> 01:05:46,815
huff and puff and make a big stink about, oh, no, like Facebook is becoming too powerful and it's

783
01:05:46,815 --> 01:05:53,215
too centralized. And so it basically creates this perfect opportunity for what we're seeing now,

784
01:05:53,295 --> 01:05:58,095
which is the proliferation of privately issued stable coins that, you know, because of the Genius

785
01:05:58,095 --> 01:06:07,395
Act, that was really the evolution of the Gillis or the Lummis-Gillenbrand bill that had so much

786
01:06:07,395 --> 01:06:12,295
to do and talked so much about the Terra Luna implosion. We can't have algorithmic backed

787
01:06:12,295 --> 01:06:17,555
stable coins they need to be backed with u.s treasuries um you know we need to be very careful

788
01:06:17,555 --> 01:06:22,615
because it's very dangerous and they just created all of this consent and for the perfect you know

789
01:06:22,615 --> 01:06:29,775
um you know opportunity for them to just enshrine u.s debt has to back stable coins these are the

790
01:06:29,775 --> 01:06:33,395
people that can issue them we don't really care who issues them as long as they're backed with

791
01:06:33,395 --> 01:06:40,015
our debt and they uphold to these kyc and aml and all these things and they really just set you know

792
01:06:40,015 --> 01:06:52,515
the perfect gumbo for the U.S. dollar to just spread all over the world and just infiltrate like a virus every other national sovereign central bank.

793
01:06:53,595 --> 01:06:59,495
Why would you keep your money in a local currency if you can just use your cell phone and get a U.S. dollar token?

794
01:06:59,895 --> 01:07:01,835
And, you know, it's a total domination.

795
01:07:01,995 --> 01:07:03,995
The U.S. is in perfect place.

796
01:07:04,515 --> 01:07:08,655
You know, the dollar is over levered against itself, but every other currency looks like shit, too.

797
01:07:08,655 --> 01:07:13,855
and the U.S. dollar is having a technological breakthrough

798
01:07:13,855 --> 01:07:16,555
whereas really nothing else in the world

799
01:07:16,555 --> 01:07:19,055
is having that technological breakthrough by any means

800
01:07:19,055 --> 01:07:22,055
and these rails are there to create enough liquidity

801
01:07:22,055 --> 01:07:24,395
for the whole world to use dollars.

802
01:07:24,935 --> 01:07:28,215
I mean, stable coins are the big, you know,

803
01:07:28,895 --> 01:07:31,095
they are the big kahuna of what's happening.

804
01:07:31,095 --> 01:07:33,595
Whether it's gold-backed or U.S. dollar-backed,

805
01:07:33,635 --> 01:07:34,395
like, that's the fight.

806
01:07:35,035 --> 01:07:37,575
And it's really interesting to me that Tether now

807
01:07:37,575 --> 01:07:39,315
is the largest private holder of gold.

808
01:07:39,315 --> 01:07:40,155
Yeah, it's going to win the fight.

809
01:07:40,555 --> 01:07:40,755
Yeah.

810
01:07:41,075 --> 01:07:41,995
Tether's going to win.

811
01:07:42,895 --> 01:07:46,935
Yeah, it's a showdown between US dollar backed stable coins

812
01:07:46,935 --> 01:07:48,635
and gold backed stable coins.

813
01:07:48,815 --> 01:07:50,615
And the winner is already determined.

814
01:07:51,155 --> 01:07:51,835
It's Tether.

815
01:07:52,335 --> 01:07:53,175
Thanks for playing.

816
01:07:53,275 --> 01:07:53,915
Have a good time.

817
01:07:55,035 --> 01:07:57,155
So I don't know where we started there,

818
01:07:57,235 --> 01:07:58,455
but I think there was a question.

819
01:07:58,575 --> 01:08:01,075
I probably didn't answer it, but we can-

820
01:08:01,075 --> 01:08:02,255
Well, I don't remember either,

821
01:08:02,335 --> 01:08:03,635
but I have another question anyway.

822
01:08:04,095 --> 01:08:05,935
So last time we spoke,

823
01:08:05,935 --> 01:08:09,815
we talked a little bit about, well, we talked a lot about the idea of Bitcoin being co-opted

824
01:08:09,815 --> 01:08:14,835
and what role Tether plays in that. I've also, since then, I did an interview with Brent Johnson

825
01:08:14,835 --> 01:08:20,075
where we talked about his dollar milkshake theory, which Tether only accelerates to a crazy degree.

826
01:08:20,075 --> 01:08:20,515
Oh, yeah.

827
01:08:20,575 --> 01:08:26,535
That is the way that the world dollarizes. Do you think that Bitcoin is co-opted at this point?

828
01:08:28,655 --> 01:08:34,095
No, I don't actually, which I think is probably surprising to a lot of my

829
01:08:34,095 --> 01:08:40,155
independent media friends because I think they would just assume that I think that because I've

830
01:08:40,155 --> 01:08:44,555
talked so much about the Epstein network and Bitcoin and the PayPal mafia and Tether is,

831
01:08:44,555 --> 01:08:51,795
you know, a lot of these things being ultimately bad for sovereignty and privacy and human freedom.

832
01:08:52,335 --> 01:08:58,155
But I don't think Bitcoin was co-opted because I think it is doing exactly what it was designed to

833
01:08:58,155 --> 01:09:03,515
do. I don't know if it's better that it's not co-opted or that like, I don't know if it's like

834
01:09:03,515 --> 01:09:08,735
a worse thing that it was created under these perfect altruistic scenarios and then got co-opted

835
01:09:08,735 --> 01:09:15,035
by the baddies does that feel better is it better for us to think that way um i don't know i don't

836
01:09:15,035 --> 01:09:20,735
know what's better what's not but but but bitcoin was designed to to do exactly what it's doing

837
01:09:20,735 --> 01:09:26,895
right now maybe not literally this month but with you know with the with the down but i mean it's

838
01:09:26,895 --> 01:09:33,755
just very clearly proven itself to be a very strategically important asset at a time where

839
01:09:33,755 --> 01:09:39,635
the economic debasement of the U.S. dollar is about to create, you know, the debasement trade

840
01:09:39,635 --> 01:09:45,355
when the world currency, world reserve currency begins to debase. You just want to get rid of

841
01:09:45,355 --> 01:09:52,195
all of your dollars and throw it into assets. And that has not happened yet. I mean, despite gold

842
01:09:52,195 --> 01:09:58,375
going gangbusters and silver having that that crazy blow off top there um and i'm very happy

843
01:09:58,375 --> 01:10:04,435
for my silver and gold bugs friends i own some and and and great and i do think it will appreciate

844
01:10:04,435 --> 01:10:11,075
immensely um eventually when it gets its shit back together um but but no i don't think i think

845
01:10:11,075 --> 01:10:18,195
bitcoin was designed to do exactly what um it needs to do to um to win you know it i don't think

846
01:10:18,195 --> 01:10:26,255
it was really designed to fight um it was designed to win and be the most mathematically astute

847
01:10:26,255 --> 01:10:34,155
investment you can make during the debasement trade um and i think it's very clear that it is

848
01:10:34,155 --> 01:10:41,315
being embraced by the very administration at the very time that it needs to be embraced to allow

849
01:10:41,315 --> 01:10:48,295
to get the regulatory clarity and have the inbound action, you know, have enough ability

850
01:10:48,295 --> 01:10:51,995
for people to get their money in, more so the institutions maybe than retail.

851
01:10:52,855 --> 01:10:54,175
And that's kind of already happened.

852
01:10:55,335 --> 01:10:59,195
I think if the U.S. government really didn't want Bitcoin to win, they wouldn't let MicroStrategy

853
01:10:59,195 --> 01:11:02,455
do what they're doing, which is obviously a speculative attack on the dollar.

854
01:11:02,675 --> 01:11:04,175
It's just there is no other way to put it.

855
01:11:04,175 --> 01:11:08,835
and if Bitcoin was truly co-opted

856
01:11:08,835 --> 01:11:12,235
it wouldn't have gotten this far

857
01:11:12,235 --> 01:11:15,175
it would have died a few years ago

858
01:11:15,175 --> 01:11:18,315
it wouldn't have had the COVID expansion that it saw

859
01:11:18,315 --> 01:11:21,715
COVID was the perfect opportunity to kill something like Bitcoin

860
01:11:21,715 --> 01:11:23,995
when we saw it crash down to 3,000

861
01:11:23,995 --> 01:11:27,175
if the powers that be wanted Bitcoin to die

862
01:11:27,175 --> 01:11:28,315
they would have killed it then

863
01:11:28,315 --> 01:11:31,395
and they didn't

864
01:11:31,395 --> 01:11:48,275
And they didn't because it is very useful to them. And that does not mean that it was co-opted useful. It means that it is what it is. And it is the only digital commodity that can and will ever exist. It will never happen again.

865
01:11:48,275 --> 01:11:54,335
this idea that you can just carbon copy and create another one or increase the 21 million.

866
01:11:54,495 --> 01:11:56,375
I mean, these are things that will not happen.

867
01:11:56,935 --> 01:12:01,255
They can technically happen, but they will not happen economically or socially.

868
01:12:01,875 --> 01:12:03,435
I can create a fork right now.

869
01:12:03,575 --> 01:12:05,975
I can increase the supply of Bitcoin on my node.

870
01:12:06,515 --> 01:12:08,435
Neither of those things matter at all.

871
01:12:09,335 --> 01:12:15,795
Bitcoin was designed to be a liquidity sink and be a reserve asset at the time when economic

872
01:12:15,795 --> 01:12:18,095
debasement goes gangbusters.

873
01:12:18,275 --> 01:12:34,615
And it is mostly centralized within the United States power system, within the Western power system. It is mostly, even within that power structure, it's mostly centralized within Silicon Valley from a technology standpoint.

874
01:12:34,615 --> 01:12:44,875
And now from an institutional standpoint, there's enough held in private companies or rather public companies that the U.S. government doesn't actually need to buy Bitcoin at all.

875
01:12:45,595 --> 01:12:54,335
They can basically just use reserve capital requirements and tell these publicly traded companies that hold millions of dollars of Bitcoin or millions of Bitcoin.

876
01:12:54,875 --> 01:12:58,735
You have to have a dollar for every dollar of Bitcoin value you have on your balance sheet.

877
01:12:58,735 --> 01:13:06,175
here we'll we'll link you up with a stable coin issuer that will lend you a stable coin so you can

878
01:13:06,175 --> 01:13:11,715
hold for every dollar a bitcoin and we'll charge you a little fee and bitcoin goes up to be a 10

879
01:13:11,715 --> 01:13:16,675
million dollar market cap we generate 10 dollar 10 million 10 trillion dollars of dollar demand

880
01:13:16,675 --> 01:13:23,115
bitcoin goes to 50 trillion we create 40 trillion more dollars a dollar demand like there's so many

881
01:13:23,115 --> 01:13:30,875
ways that the that the system can use bitcoin um that are just innately baked into what bitcoin is

882
01:13:30,875 --> 01:13:38,115
that the idea that this was hijacked by roger or sorry by the epstein group and roger ver was right

883
01:13:38,115 --> 01:13:43,735
and he totally wasn't wrong about anything and i think this bifurcation that's occurred within

884
01:13:43,735 --> 01:13:50,215
the bitcoin space is also part of the design of the bitcoin project which was to keep us all sort

885
01:13:50,215 --> 01:13:56,555
of on the reservation and infighting between the ideologues and the technologists and not

886
01:13:56,555 --> 01:14:00,915
really paying attention to what's going on outside of that.

887
01:14:01,195 --> 01:14:10,675
And instead of focusing on, you know, scaling tools and privacy tools and barter and, you

888
01:14:10,675 --> 01:14:16,115
know, local economies and getting, you know, people that can actually, you know, really

889
01:14:16,115 --> 01:14:21,975
benefit from the monetization of Bitcoin, getting Bitcoin. We're instead cheering on

890
01:14:21,975 --> 01:14:27,515
an administration that is incredibly corrupt and has been proven in these emails to be incredibly

891
01:14:27,515 --> 01:14:35,595
corrupt and is trying, whether it's Lutnik or Trump, and trying to basically get the US government

892
01:14:35,595 --> 01:14:40,395
to pump the shit out of our bags rather than focusing on all the things that we as people

893
01:14:40,395 --> 01:14:46,015
can use. Bitcoin is an amazing idea. It will never happen again. Why do we want to let it

894
01:14:46,015 --> 01:14:50,475
be centralized entirely into some of the worst people in the world holding the majority of

895
01:14:50,475 --> 01:14:56,315
Bitcoin. If we could keep this message going and everyone just keeps bike shedding on who won the

896
01:14:56,315 --> 01:15:03,115
block size war, should it be two megabyte block? Should it be four? Was BSV the right choice?

897
01:15:03,795 --> 01:15:11,215
Maybe Ripple's the right choice. Was it XRP? Was it Ethereum? All of these things that were just in

898
01:15:11,215 --> 01:15:16,095
this little box and they're just shaking it and laughing at us and we're just infighting

899
01:15:16,095 --> 01:15:23,115
instead of actually building something um that will create um you know freedom and success and

900
01:15:23,115 --> 01:15:29,135
and and what have you at the local level it's become zoomed out and it's this big um

901
01:15:29,135 --> 01:15:36,555
you know it's it's ridiculous i think the amount of time we've wasted um whether you believe roger

902
01:15:36,555 --> 01:15:42,615
Veyer's book is the Bible or, you know, the block size war is the Bible. I think you miss the bigger

903
01:15:42,615 --> 01:15:49,955
picture that like Bitcoin was actually probably designed by an intelligence group early on to

904
01:15:49,955 --> 01:15:56,335
create this exact environment and be there when monetary debasement happens and sort of push us

905
01:15:56,335 --> 01:16:03,995
along into the new financial system. And Bitcoin is the only digital commodity. And we're fighting

906
01:16:03,995 --> 01:16:09,515
all of this time, wasting all of this amazing human capital and human energy on infighting.

907
01:16:09,715 --> 01:16:14,995
And I'm not saying that we should reach out this big olive branch to Craig Wright or whatever,

908
01:16:15,295 --> 01:16:20,955
or even Roger. I think these guys have done some pretty dumb things that don't deserve

909
01:16:20,955 --> 01:16:27,695
forgiveness. I mean, you look at who's cost more people more Bitcoin in the world. Roger

910
01:16:27,695 --> 01:16:32,435
Vare is right up there with Mt. Gox and Bcash. I mean, it's just unfortunate. It's true.

911
01:16:32,435 --> 01:16:42,015
But a lot of the people that went over there thinking this guy was correct because he said a lot of nice things like aren't necessarily bad people and they haven't done necessarily bad things on Bcash development.

912
01:16:42,295 --> 01:16:47,195
Like it's not a terrible idea. Increasing the block size was something that most people in Bitcoin agreed with.

913
01:16:47,795 --> 01:16:53,115
We don't need it yet because no one's fucking using Bitcoin to transact. We're just holding it and hoping that we become billionaires.

914
01:16:53,115 --> 01:17:00,655
and I think the real freedom that humans could find out of it is a uncensorable peer-to-peer

915
01:17:00,655 --> 01:17:06,955
cash like that is that is the ultimate goal not because the white paper says it not because Roger

916
01:17:06,955 --> 01:17:13,055
Baer said it but because that is actually what it would would be helpful that I could have an

917
01:17:13,055 --> 01:17:20,035
uncensorable monetary good I think that's that's the greatest but but to be fair Bitcoin economically

918
01:17:20,035 --> 01:17:25,955
you know uh it was designed to kind of have this disinflationary asymptotic approach to zero

919
01:17:25,955 --> 01:17:31,755
issuance and that is what it is that's what it was designed to do that has not been co-opted

920
01:17:31,755 --> 01:17:37,635
that will not be co-opted and because of that bitcoin will win on that metric of being the

921
01:17:37,635 --> 01:17:44,675
reserve asset it will win mathematically but it might not win carrying along the carriage behind

922
01:17:44,675 --> 01:17:50,615
it of peer-to-peer, uncensurable cash. And so can we create an environment where we understand,

923
01:17:51,335 --> 01:17:55,115
okay, it's going to win. It's going to monetize. That's going to happen. The government's there.

924
01:17:55,235 --> 01:17:59,735
BlackRock's there. All the worst people in the world are there. The Epstein's there. Teal's

925
01:17:59,735 --> 01:18:04,775
there. You know, okay. Like, they're not going to just blow this up. I don't think it's a giant

926
01:18:04,775 --> 01:18:11,915
Ponzi scheme. I think it's something a lot more important. Can we come together and understand

927
01:18:11,915 --> 01:18:17,795
that we do have human power and human capital that we can lever against these institutions

928
01:18:17,795 --> 01:18:23,275
that hold all the Bitcoin. But can we create tools, create way to spend Bitcoin privately,

929
01:18:23,995 --> 01:18:29,055
create, you know, education and marketing and ways to get people into Bitcoin,

930
01:18:29,615 --> 01:18:34,615
understanding all of the faults of it and that it that may be this dream of peer to peer

931
01:18:34,615 --> 01:18:41,595
uncensorable cash may fail, but the monetary side will definitely win. Can we fight that battle

932
01:18:41,595 --> 01:18:47,675
knowing that it probably almost definitely was designed to win the reserve asset battle.

933
01:18:47,875 --> 01:18:53,995
And if we can kind of get our shit together and stop infighting and wasting more time on did Epstein hijack Bitcoin,

934
01:18:54,515 --> 01:18:57,715
what size should block and just focus on like, what the fuck do we want?

935
01:18:57,915 --> 01:18:59,515
Because so many of us made it.

936
01:18:59,515 --> 01:19:10,155
I mean, so many Bitcoiners made it and we have all day to sit on pods and sit on spaces and talk about fucking JPEGs and talk about bullshit and nothing is happening.

937
01:19:10,155 --> 01:19:15,975
there is no push towards scaling solutions there's very little work on privacy stuff we're not

938
01:19:15,975 --> 01:19:23,355
developing cool alternative ways to like you know create dollar denominated value and send it you

939
01:19:23,355 --> 01:19:28,535
know we're we're just recreating old shitty systems on top of bitcoin over and over and over again

940
01:19:28,535 --> 01:19:35,195
that are centralized and shitty and that we're doomed to fail on the peer-to-peer cash element

941
01:19:35,195 --> 01:19:40,955
for 8 billion people if we keep bike-shedding and fighting the block-size war every three years

942
01:19:40,955 --> 01:19:45,915
when there's a bear market. It's fucking stupid, and it's probably by design. If there was something

943
01:19:45,915 --> 01:19:51,135
that was co-opted, I'll leave it at this, it's the Bitcoin culture. It's the people. It's the

944
01:19:51,135 --> 01:19:57,395
community. It's the discourse. And it has been co-opted by people that have alternative motives

945
01:19:57,395 --> 01:20:06,175
that are not expressed and they censor and they promote and they tweak and they tweak the discourse

946
01:20:06,175 --> 01:20:12,295
towards specific ways so that we're all wasting our time talking about bullshit and not fighting

947
01:20:12,295 --> 01:20:17,315
the the giant elephants in the room and the block size war is not the elephant in the room

948
01:20:17,315 --> 01:20:26,895
it's not important it it it happened it here we are uh move on like figure it out i can't send

949
01:20:26,895 --> 01:20:33,735
Bitcoin to you privately easily. Can we solve for that? Can we get people to open a million

950
01:20:33,735 --> 01:20:38,875
lightning channels in a single transaction? Can we onboard 8 billion people onto Bitcoin? No.

951
01:20:39,535 --> 01:20:44,315
Does that mean we need bigger blocks? Maybe. But there's probably a bunch of other ways that we can

952
01:20:44,315 --> 01:20:51,475
do it too. And if we just continually to get baited by fucking spooks in the Bitcoin space

953
01:20:51,475 --> 01:20:53,615
that have terrible motives

954
01:20:53,615 --> 01:20:55,675
and are probably taking money

955
01:20:55,675 --> 01:20:57,355
from certain entities

956
01:20:57,355 --> 01:20:58,815
to push certain narratives,

957
01:20:58,935 --> 01:20:59,995
to push certain books,

958
01:21:00,555 --> 01:21:02,415
you know, we're not going to get anywhere.

959
01:21:02,935 --> 01:21:03,835
And so Bitcoin culture,

960
01:21:04,075 --> 01:21:05,955
in my opinion, has been co-opted.

961
01:21:07,255 --> 01:21:08,655
And, you know,

962
01:21:08,695 --> 01:21:10,475
I can hear people already thinking,

963
01:21:10,655 --> 01:21:11,855
like, there is no Bitcoin culture.

964
01:21:12,055 --> 01:21:13,055
You're just projecting

965
01:21:13,055 --> 01:21:14,235
because you worked at Bitcoin Magazine.

966
01:21:14,415 --> 01:21:15,855
You're talking about Mr. Huddle here.

967
01:21:16,015 --> 01:21:16,215
Yeah.

968
01:21:17,015 --> 01:21:18,195
How the fuck did you know?

969
01:21:18,235 --> 01:21:19,895
I'm exactly thinking about Mr. Huddle.

970
01:21:20,155 --> 01:21:21,275
And I disagree.

971
01:21:21,275 --> 01:21:40,515
I think there obviously very clearly is like a multimillion dollar Bitcoin culture industry, but that is also not necessarily representative of what Bitcoin culture could be. And like eventually it's just going to be money. It's just we're all going to be running around with shirts on that just say money on it. And it's not going to be cool or interesting. That's already kind of started to happen.

972
01:21:40,515 --> 01:21:51,295
But if we're not ready from a technological and ideological standpoint to deal with the transition, which has not happened yet, the economic debasement trade has not happened yet.

973
01:21:51,415 --> 01:22:08,575
If we're not ready to onboard billions of people onto Bitcoin and give them sovereignty and give them a permissionless network like it was when we found it years ago, if we can't give that to our kids, then we failed, even though we're going to be multimillionaires.

974
01:22:08,575 --> 01:22:10,615
Like that sucks.

975
01:22:10,615 --> 01:22:12,075
I don't want that world.

976
01:22:12,075 --> 01:22:26,335
I want I want people to be able to use this technology and have access to this monetary policy in a self-sovereign way, holding their own UTXOs rather than having to go through some paperized Bitcoin bullshit where there's there's there's third party trust.

977
01:22:26,335 --> 01:22:27,535
There's custodial risk.

978
01:22:27,535 --> 01:22:29,995
There's all of these issues surveying.

979
01:22:30,047 --> 01:22:34,267
censorship, freezability. I don't want that to be how everyone interacts with Bitcoin,

980
01:22:34,627 --> 01:22:40,227
knowing that it's probably almost definitely designed to win the economic debasement trade.

981
01:22:40,507 --> 01:22:45,387
How do we make it a useful technology for everyone else that doesn't hold it? Because frankly,

982
01:22:45,387 --> 01:22:49,227
not a lot of people own Bitcoin. They just don't. You know?

983
01:22:49,627 --> 01:22:56,147
Damn, you got me fired up, Mark. We need to do better. This has been awesome. Is there anything

984
01:22:56,147 --> 01:22:59,887
else that you want to talk about when it comes to Epstein and Bitcoin? I have one more question

985
01:22:59,887 --> 01:23:05,967
about Epstein, but it's got nothing to do with Bitcoin? I don't know. I talked about a good

986
01:23:05,967 --> 01:23:13,227
amount of stuff. I think the Tether stuff is super interesting. Yes, there is one more thing I want

987
01:23:13,227 --> 01:23:17,207
to talk about. It'll be quick, though, I know, because we've been ripping for a bit. But hey,

988
01:23:17,247 --> 01:23:20,547
you don't have to be quick. We've got all the time in the world, man. Right on, brother. Well,

989
01:23:21,167 --> 01:23:29,867
in 2014, August, Epstein emailed a group of people, or at least one person. It's redacted.

990
01:23:29,887 --> 01:23:44,907
A lot of people speculate it's Austin Hill from Blockstream, but I don't know. It's hard to see. There is a redaction there. But he messages in August 14, 2014, I'm going to Treasury to talk Bitcoin. Questions?

991
01:23:44,907 --> 01:23:53,507
which a that to me is extremely interesting that well after he was arrested the first time

992
01:23:53,507 --> 01:23:59,407
uh you know epstein is going to treasury to to discuss financial things you know mr money is

993
01:23:59,407 --> 01:24:05,227
strutting into treasury um that obviously should be a huge red flag about our government and by

994
01:24:05,227 --> 01:24:11,287
our government i mean the united states government um that financial decisions and and counsel

995
01:24:11,287 --> 01:24:18,267
is being had with convicted sexual abusers.

996
01:24:19,967 --> 01:24:22,167
So that's, A, very interesting.

997
01:24:22,287 --> 01:24:25,067
But also the fact that he is being brought into Treasury

998
01:24:25,067 --> 01:24:26,727
to discuss Bitcoin.

999
01:24:28,027 --> 01:24:30,367
You could argue, is he doing it to discuss

1000
01:24:30,367 --> 01:24:32,867
how do we stop it or how do we embrace it

1001
01:24:32,867 --> 01:24:35,967
or just, hey, did you make this thing?

1002
01:24:36,087 --> 01:24:37,867
I don't know. No one has any ideas.

1003
01:24:38,187 --> 01:24:40,287
But the response is very interesting to me.

1004
01:24:40,287 --> 01:24:49,507
And I think it really sums up kind of everything that I've sort of speculated regarding stable coins and Bitcoin.

1005
01:24:50,487 --> 01:24:56,027
And the response is, I'm more interested in planting some seeds of thought.

1006
01:24:56,647 --> 01:24:59,167
Ecuador is working on a nationally approved cryptocurrency.

1007
01:24:59,627 --> 01:25:05,587
Looks like we will have a pilot in the works with India to do a digital rupee to phase out grift and corruption.

1008
01:25:06,407 --> 01:25:09,387
Canada is also looking at doing a digital Canadian dollar.

1009
01:25:10,007 --> 01:25:14,347
I'm more interested in what Treasury thinks about doing a Fed Reserve-backed digital USD,

1010
01:25:15,067 --> 01:25:19,967
especially if they felt like they could embed AML and KYC policy into the coin.

1011
01:25:20,627 --> 01:25:25,527
It's one of the few legitimate approaches they have to change the adoption use cases of Bitcoin.

1012
01:25:25,727 --> 01:25:31,187
A digital USD wouldn't suffer the volatility of Bitcoin and could gain wider adoption

1013
01:25:31,187 --> 01:25:36,627
and allow them to have a seat at the table, as opposed to regulating Bitcoin

1014
01:25:36,627 --> 01:25:40,947
and driving innovation overseas and criminals underground.

1015
01:25:41,787 --> 01:25:43,867
Any insights on this will be great.

1016
01:25:45,607 --> 01:25:50,367
That, to me, sums up so much about what we've discussed

1017
01:25:50,367 --> 01:25:55,147
about the perception of stablecoins.

1018
01:25:56,247 --> 01:25:59,947
And that, interestingly, I think you could make an argument

1019
01:25:59,947 --> 01:26:03,747
based on that, that, okay, maybe this is a co-option play

1020
01:26:03,747 --> 01:26:06,607
and the stablecoins are part of this co-option play.

1021
01:26:06,627 --> 01:26:11,827
of how do we coax, you know, the Treasury into playing ball,

1022
01:26:12,267 --> 01:26:14,407
and here's how they can co-opt in and do it.

1023
01:26:14,467 --> 01:26:17,307
But to me, it seems like a really clever plan,

1024
01:26:17,987 --> 01:26:19,887
especially if this did come from Austin Hill,

1025
01:26:20,667 --> 01:26:23,767
that it is them saying, here's how we trick Treasury

1026
01:26:23,767 --> 01:26:28,207
and the U.S. government into thinking they have a seat at the table,

1027
01:26:28,207 --> 01:26:32,167
and they get a seat at the table to ensure, you know,

1028
01:26:32,327 --> 01:26:34,427
U.S. dollar hegemony lasts.

1029
01:26:34,427 --> 01:27:02,047
But in reality, us Bitcoiners are actually really playing them and playing the uninitiated into the Bitcoin scheme. And we're tricking them into thinking, yeah, if you use stable coins, you don't got to worry about Bitcoin at all. But in reality, we obviously know that that's not true. And there's this incredible symbiotic relationship between stable. Now, let's talk about it. In 2014, I mean, there was no stable coin industry.

1030
01:27:02,047 --> 01:27:26,147
Tether was founded then. I mean, we're talking, you know, at most when it was MasterCoin on OmniLayer. I mean, you know, we're talking millions of dollars, well under a billion dollars. I mean, it was just this tiny little list little thing. But this seed being planted, like as as this email says, like this is how we get Treasury, which again is bringing in Epstein for counsel to talk about Bitcoin.

1031
01:27:26,147 --> 01:27:42,947
This is how we get them to be comfortable with the growth of Bitcoin, which, of course, we saw massive growth of Bitcoin in that era. You know, this is how we get them comfortable is we tell them this and they think they're playing this game when in reality we're playing this game, which is the Bitcoin.

1032
01:27:42,947 --> 01:27:55,567
And that to me, I think, is like such a perfect summation of a lot of the questions I have about like which came first, the stable coin or the Bitcoin, like the chicken and the egg thing.

1033
01:27:55,567 --> 01:28:15,467
Like, was it just to trick the government? Was it created as a ploy? Was Bitcoin created as a ploy to extend the dollar? Was it actually created by a bunch of insiders to make a breakaway financial system that mathematically will win as we see the economic debasement? Like, who knows?

1034
01:28:15,467 --> 01:28:38,727
But I think the reality of that situation that Epstein is going into Treasury to talk Bitcoin and he's coming in with this idea in his head after he just discussed in emails previously a year ago with Bill Gross about how he had this idea to flip Bitcoin on its head and you should talk to Brock Pierce and found this new alternative currency, which very likely became Tether.

1035
01:28:38,727 --> 01:28:45,807
and then he's going into treasury and then this guy is saying trick them with this tell them this

1036
01:28:45,807 --> 01:28:50,107
you know we don't want to force innovation to go overseas like you hear so many of those talking

1037
01:28:50,107 --> 01:28:55,047
points in senators today talking about stable coins we can't drive innovation overseas that

1038
01:28:55,047 --> 01:29:00,827
was in an email from this guy to epstein on his way probably looking at his blackberry walking

1039
01:29:00,827 --> 01:29:06,087
into the fucking treasury to talk about bitcoin in 2014 and he's getting fed this yeah that's that's

1040
01:29:06,087 --> 01:29:11,127
a pretty good idea. I actually might have just helped create Tether and that's a pretty good idea.

1041
01:29:12,007 --> 01:29:32,585
It just so crazy that we think of these technologies as inhuman and especially Bitcoin as not having been created or pushed along by humans It like the philosophers of Bitcoin about how Bitcoin wasn invented it was discovered

1042
01:29:32,925 --> 01:29:39,765
And the fires of math and the proof of work and just like absolute slop ridiculousness.

1043
01:29:39,905 --> 01:29:42,365
Although sometimes I do think it's fun and I get it.

1044
01:29:42,465 --> 01:29:44,825
But no, it was obviously invented.

1045
01:29:45,485 --> 01:29:47,065
Bitcoin was fucking invented.

1046
01:29:47,585 --> 01:29:48,125
Grow up.

1047
01:29:48,625 --> 01:29:49,605
It wasn't discovered.

1048
01:29:49,625 --> 01:29:53,325
There are elements of math that, of course, will always exist.

1049
01:29:53,805 --> 01:29:55,905
But like, yeah, it was invented.

1050
01:29:56,025 --> 01:29:56,965
It was invented by people.

1051
01:29:57,165 --> 01:29:58,005
They coded it.

1052
01:29:58,205 --> 01:29:59,025
They released it.

1053
01:29:59,225 --> 01:30:00,425
They created pseudonyms.

1054
01:30:00,585 --> 01:30:02,685
They did like Satoshi was a human being.

1055
01:30:02,825 --> 01:30:07,065
He might have been multiple human beings, but he was a human being or they were a human being or whatever.

1056
01:30:07,785 --> 01:30:08,825
And it was this.

1057
01:30:08,925 --> 01:30:10,265
This is a plan that was done.

1058
01:30:10,445 --> 01:30:11,825
It was done very carefully.

1059
01:30:12,145 --> 01:30:14,045
It was done at the specific time.

1060
01:30:14,245 --> 01:30:17,465
It was done to do exactly what it is doing now.

1061
01:30:17,465 --> 01:30:47,445
It was not co-opted. Tether didn't co-opt Bitcoin. The big blockers didn't lose. It isn't some whatever conspiracy you think it is. It's like the conspiracy is actually simpler in that it was a group of people came together and went, let's do this and let's do that and let's tell them this and we'll release it here and we'll do that and we'll sit back and we'll make billions and billions of dollars and we'll have a whole new alternative currency network where we can launder and we can pay for nefariousness.

1062
01:30:47,465 --> 01:30:54,065
things and do a whole bunch of crazy shit and take over the world global economy. And the fact

1063
01:30:54,065 --> 01:30:58,765
that at the very beginning, these discussions were being had with the Epstein network deserves

1064
01:30:58,765 --> 01:31:05,265
a think. It deserves a thought to think about what does that mean? Does that change my relationship

1065
01:31:05,265 --> 01:31:09,925
with Bitcoin? Am I selling all my Bitcoin because I think that there were bad things,

1066
01:31:10,125 --> 01:31:15,485
bad people involved at the beginning, or it might be this big trick? I'm not. And I know people

1067
01:31:15,485 --> 01:31:20,125
probably don't get that. Like, how could you? You know, I've been called crazy things on Twitter

1068
01:31:20,125 --> 01:31:25,905
because people sort of assumed I was someone other than I was by saying that there's a lot

1069
01:31:25,905 --> 01:31:30,125
of issues with Bitcoin and a lot of bad people and blah, blah, blah. But like it was designed

1070
01:31:30,125 --> 01:31:34,605
to do what it's going to do. And I want to be there for it when it does it. So I can use that

1071
01:31:34,605 --> 01:31:40,665
my asymmetric, you know, information advantage of being early to Bitcoin to go do cool things with

1072
01:31:40,665 --> 01:31:46,345
my family and help and help people and hopefully build things because ultimately the final play of

1073
01:31:46,345 --> 01:31:53,305
the bitcoin dollar stable coin hoopla blah is is not a decentralization of monetary policy it's a

1074
01:31:53,305 --> 01:31:59,945
centralization of the u.s dollar policy over the world and then that versus gold and versus bitcoin

1075
01:31:59,945 --> 01:32:07,205
and that trifecta will play out and if i had to choose between bitcoin gold or u.s dollars to hold

1076
01:32:07,205 --> 01:32:11,885
long term to be able to give something to my kids, I would certainly put some in gold,

1077
01:32:12,165 --> 01:32:17,085
but I would put the vast majority of it in Bitcoin, which is what I'm doing, which is what I'm living.

1078
01:32:17,365 --> 01:32:21,965
I'm not lying to you. I'm going down with the ship with all of you if this goes to zero, too.

1079
01:32:22,645 --> 01:32:27,985
You know, like that's just the reality and it will be painful, but it is what it is. But if I had to

1080
01:32:27,985 --> 01:32:33,705
pick between those three things, I'm picking Bitcoin for the long term, for the most appreciation

1081
01:32:33,705 --> 01:32:36,285
and in the most sovereignty.

1082
01:32:37,005 --> 01:32:39,505
And I hope that the Bitcoin space

1083
01:32:39,505 --> 01:32:41,205
can stop arguing and fighting

1084
01:32:41,205 --> 01:32:43,505
like Don Quixote style,

1085
01:32:43,625 --> 01:32:45,225
the windmills of the block size war

1086
01:32:45,225 --> 01:32:46,125
over and over again.

1087
01:32:46,245 --> 01:32:48,145
And we can come together and be like,

1088
01:32:48,265 --> 01:32:49,365
OK, maybe we were fooled.

1089
01:32:49,485 --> 01:32:50,505
Maybe we were bamboozled.

1090
01:32:50,585 --> 01:32:51,285
Who gives a shit?

1091
01:32:51,365 --> 01:32:52,265
It is what it is.

1092
01:32:52,645 --> 01:32:53,305
Let's fight.

1093
01:32:53,705 --> 01:32:54,345
What do we do?

1094
01:32:54,545 --> 01:32:55,165
How do we build?

1095
01:32:55,285 --> 01:32:56,525
How do we put this money towards?

1096
01:32:56,725 --> 01:32:58,645
Bitcoiners like suck at supporting stuff

1097
01:32:58,645 --> 01:33:00,145
as it relates to development.

1098
01:33:00,465 --> 01:33:02,225
Like there's a lot of cool stuff going on.

1099
01:33:02,225 --> 01:33:15,345
But like in general, other spaces, because it's a much less hard money, you know, there's so much more money in Ethereum and in these shit coins to slosh around to buy influencers to do this stuff.

1100
01:33:15,345 --> 01:33:24,045
Bitcoiners need to sort of to use sailor talking to you, like not eat their own and and and support their own.

1101
01:33:24,645 --> 01:33:40,745
Because there are a bunch of true Bitcoiners that don't give a shit about state power and want the U.S. dollar to not necessarily go up in flames, but like, you know, do a controlled demolition of the power structures that are upheld because of dollar hegemony.

1102
01:33:40,745 --> 01:33:48,065
and and i think bitcoiners can do it and uh i hope they do um but either way i mean i'm pretty

1103
01:33:48,065 --> 01:33:55,325
sure bitcoin uh is going to succeed because it was designed to succeed and uh you know how how

1104
01:33:55,325 --> 01:34:02,125
that success is distributed is up to us um and i think there's a lot of demoralization in hearing

1105
01:34:02,125 --> 01:34:07,365
about all these bad things like oh my god epstein wasn't talking about bitcoin and maybe 2009 like

1106
01:34:07,365 --> 01:34:13,545
this is so bad. Like, it's not the money of pedophiles. Like, sorry, that's the US dollar,

1107
01:34:13,885 --> 01:34:21,705
maybe the pound. I don't know. But it's not Bitcoin. And certainly, we can get rid of that

1108
01:34:21,705 --> 01:34:29,005
moniker and get rid of that stickiness of these bad people by using it as a tool that empowers,

1109
01:34:29,005 --> 01:34:36,085
you know, local trade and economic freedom that doesn't touch status government bags. So,

1110
01:34:36,085 --> 01:34:45,505
yeah long story short that's that's that's about it um okay last question on epstein do you did

1111
01:34:45,505 --> 01:34:53,505
this um document drop unearth anything about who he exactly was and who he was working for how what

1112
01:34:53,505 --> 01:34:59,825
where he kind of fit in the power structure yeah i mean nothing that i think wasn't already pretty

1113
01:34:59,825 --> 01:35:08,765
expressed by a lot of great Epstein researchers, but obviously Whitney Webb has done excessive

1114
01:35:08,765 --> 01:35:13,525
amounts of work and research on this. But no, I mean, he talks about how he basically is a

1115
01:35:13,525 --> 01:35:21,065
representative of the Rothschild banking dynasty, which is also very interesting because

1116
01:35:21,065 --> 01:35:27,125
Trump himself was bailed out by Wilbur Ross, who later worked in his first administration

1117
01:35:27,125 --> 01:35:29,285
when he was a banker at Rothschild Inc.

1118
01:35:29,685 --> 01:35:31,505
You know, when he got into a bunch of gambling debt.

1119
01:35:32,405 --> 01:35:34,665
You know, so he was very likely an asset

1120
01:35:34,665 --> 01:35:37,485
of Rothschild banking dynasty as well.

1121
01:35:38,265 --> 01:35:40,585
Obviously, Rothschild, like when you talk about them,

1122
01:35:40,585 --> 01:35:44,225
it like devolves really quickly into, you know, like,

1123
01:35:44,865 --> 01:35:48,805
I don't know, like Luciferian, anti-Semitic, crazy.

1124
01:35:48,945 --> 01:35:50,645
I mean, it's just you can't like say Rothschild

1125
01:35:50,645 --> 01:35:52,865
without it going into that place,

1126
01:35:53,045 --> 01:35:54,965
which I think is probably by design

1127
01:35:54,965 --> 01:35:57,325
where you can't actually talk about them

1128
01:35:57,325 --> 01:35:59,605
because if you do, you're this crazy guy

1129
01:35:59,605 --> 01:36:02,505
and you hate Jews or whatever.

1130
01:36:02,665 --> 01:36:05,525
And it's just like, no, that has nothing to do with that.

1131
01:36:05,625 --> 01:36:07,865
It's like, this is a banking dynasty

1132
01:36:07,865 --> 01:36:12,725
that has controlled humongous areas

1133
01:36:12,725 --> 01:36:28,862
of the world global financial system for centuries And it interesting that I think a lot of people when they think about these banker families they think of you know gold silver like napoleonic era

1134
01:36:28,862 --> 01:36:35,782
um which is true that's where they were there as well but like these banking dynasties these these

1135
01:36:35,782 --> 01:36:41,182
infrastructure dynasties the rockefellas these the you know they don't they don't just disappear

1136
01:36:41,182 --> 01:36:47,642
they didn't lose all of their money they got guys like epstein to hide it and that's what epstein

1137
01:36:47,642 --> 01:36:54,562
was doing i mean he was he was the best at finding these offshore banking communities using cayman

1138
01:36:54,562 --> 01:37:00,182
you know um fronts and and washing you know billions and billions of dollars for the wealthiest

1139
01:37:00,182 --> 01:37:05,822
people in the world and he so much as says that in in the in the docs that he is a representative

1140
01:37:05,822 --> 01:37:11,042
of them he obviously isn't only a representative of them i mean he obviously has humongous

1141
01:37:11,042 --> 01:37:16,942
ties to Leslie Wexner and, you know, a lot of other people and obviously had his hands

1142
01:37:16,942 --> 01:37:21,062
in, you know, he was distributing money for Bill Gates, you know, who also invested in

1143
01:37:21,062 --> 01:37:22,742
MIT on behalf of him.

1144
01:37:23,242 --> 01:37:28,862
He was obviously all over the PayPal mafia through Peter Thiel and Reid Hoffman and,

1145
01:37:28,982 --> 01:37:33,582
you know, was investing money in Thiel's valor, you know, his fund there.

1146
01:37:35,262 --> 01:37:38,442
Like, I don't think there is one answer of who he worked for.

1147
01:37:38,442 --> 01:37:48,202
I think he was the best at, you know, brokering power and blackmailing was a part of it.

1148
01:37:48,622 --> 01:38:00,142
But I think it was mostly a money manager and finding ways, you know, working with the Bronfmans, finding ways to hide humongous amounts of money for these families that had so much money.

1149
01:38:00,142 --> 01:38:02,422
and he was better at it than anyone

1150
01:38:02,422 --> 01:38:03,822
because he understood the math.

1151
01:38:03,922 --> 01:38:05,722
He understood foreign exchange,

1152
01:38:05,842 --> 01:38:08,902
you know, and currency plays

1153
01:38:08,902 --> 01:38:10,622
and the tax code.

1154
01:38:10,622 --> 01:38:13,642
And he was just so good at what he did

1155
01:38:13,642 --> 01:38:17,582
that, you know, we get treasury secretaries

1156
01:38:17,582 --> 01:38:19,102
calling him Mr. Money, you know.

1157
01:38:20,042 --> 01:38:22,222
But I don't think there's one single answer.

1158
01:38:22,482 --> 01:38:24,062
I don't think we'll ever have a single answer.

1159
01:38:24,462 --> 01:38:26,062
We'll never know why he died

1160
01:38:26,062 --> 01:38:29,202
or if he died or how he died

1161
01:38:29,202 --> 01:38:34,322
or why he got into this network in the first place,

1162
01:38:34,342 --> 01:38:35,562
although there is a lot of speculation

1163
01:38:35,562 --> 01:38:37,942
about his connections going overseas

1164
01:38:37,942 --> 01:38:39,562
and meeting up with Jimmy Goldsmith,

1165
01:38:39,682 --> 01:38:41,102
who formed the mega group.

1166
01:38:41,322 --> 01:38:44,882
And there's a lot of interesting conversation there,

1167
01:38:45,082 --> 01:38:47,982
especially with the Dalton School and William Barr

1168
01:38:47,982 --> 01:38:49,842
and his connections with the Trump administration.

1169
01:38:50,322 --> 01:38:51,782
Like, looking at the life of Epstein,

1170
01:38:52,402 --> 01:38:55,142
I mean, this guy is everywhere,

1171
01:38:55,802 --> 01:38:58,282
everywhere you want and don't want to be.

1172
01:38:58,282 --> 01:39:00,402
and there is not one handler.

1173
01:39:00,762 --> 01:39:03,562
He had multiple projects

1174
01:39:03,562 --> 01:39:05,222
where he was working on specific people.

1175
01:39:05,342 --> 01:39:07,402
He had multiple people that were working with him.

1176
01:39:07,962 --> 01:39:09,382
I think he was taking directions

1177
01:39:09,382 --> 01:39:12,002
from multiple intelligence agencies,

1178
01:39:12,122 --> 01:39:13,262
from multiple countries.

1179
01:39:13,842 --> 01:39:18,682
I think the answer to who runs the world,

1180
01:39:19,622 --> 01:39:21,722
it's not necessarily a fun answer

1181
01:39:21,722 --> 01:39:23,642
because it doesn't really answer anything,

1182
01:39:23,822 --> 01:39:26,682
but it's a trans-fraternal, trans-national,

1183
01:39:26,682 --> 01:39:34,862
transgenerational uh group of people so it doesn't really narrow it down you can't just say oh it's

1184
01:39:34,862 --> 01:39:42,322
the city of london oh it's it's israel oh it's the u.s oh it's it it's all of those things it's it's

1185
01:39:42,322 --> 01:39:48,982
it's so much more simpler and more complicated at the same time and again i'm not an expert on

1186
01:39:48,982 --> 01:39:55,922
epstein um i just work with one and i've read the books and and you know done a lot of reading myself

1187
01:39:56,802 --> 01:39:59,102
But, you know, like, we'll never know the true answer.

1188
01:39:59,702 --> 01:40:07,942
Even the things that we got, the Epstein files, like, how can you possibly trust this administration at this time?

1189
01:40:08,182 --> 01:40:09,702
Why are they dropping it now?

1190
01:40:09,902 --> 01:40:10,802
What is the point?

1191
01:40:11,182 --> 01:40:17,822
You know, I'm seeing people say that it's a big sting operation and Q is real and Trump's going to there's a thing.

1192
01:40:17,862 --> 01:40:19,402
And he actually blew the whistle on him.

1193
01:40:19,402 --> 01:40:24,302
and it's like I just I think they're going to do some sort of play like that

1194
01:40:24,302 --> 01:40:26,102
where they'll try to make Trump the hero.

1195
01:40:27,002 --> 01:40:29,282
I think it will probably work on a lot of people.

1196
01:40:29,542 --> 01:40:30,802
It won't work on me.

1197
01:40:31,822 --> 01:40:33,422
I don't I don't trust this guy.

1198
01:40:33,542 --> 01:40:34,522
I never liked Trump.

1199
01:40:35,062 --> 01:40:38,702
I mean I think he's hilarious like early on Trump was very funny

1200
01:40:38,702 --> 01:40:41,482
and I living in a super liberal area.

1201
01:40:41,762 --> 01:40:44,482
I thought it was very funny when he won watching you know

1202
01:40:44,482 --> 01:40:46,302
the Californians just lose their minds.

1203
01:40:47,442 --> 01:40:48,502
It was fun.

1204
01:40:48,502 --> 01:41:05,742
I enjoyed that. But I also knew what was coming was was was very serious that if they're going to put in this sort of very compromised chaos agent to run the most important government in the world, that like very intense, dramatic things were going to change and were going to happen.

1205
01:41:05,742 --> 01:41:22,422
I mean, you look at that election, it's like Hillary was obviously made more sense as like a insider and the continuation of the status quo of the Obama years and bringing back a little bit of neocon hawkishness there and a little bit more Bush era than Obama.

1206
01:41:22,682 --> 01:41:24,862
But, you know, let's continue on this path.

1207
01:41:25,022 --> 01:41:28,742
And then Trump comes in and he's a wrecking ball by design.

1208
01:41:28,742 --> 01:41:57,882
And he set up everything that we're seeing now, legislation-wise, all of these things that we were talking about of like, how do we set up the Bitcoin dollar system? Like he set all that up in his first term, created the scenario to print tons of money, worked with Fink and created the going direct reset, leaves for four years. And it's just, we have this, you know, a cadaver as president. And it just doesn't even make any sense. The Biden era is like a dream. It's like it didn't even happen.

1209
01:41:58,742 --> 01:42:02,062
And then they run Kamala and Waltz, which is the most obvious just poison pill.

1210
01:42:02,402 --> 01:42:04,542
They know they're not going to win candidacy ever.

1211
01:42:04,542 --> 01:42:08,282
And Trump comes in, you know, number 47 and he's here.

1212
01:42:08,402 --> 01:42:12,042
And now it's just absolute insanity by design.

1213
01:42:12,522 --> 01:42:15,742
Tariffs, gold, silver explosions.

1214
01:42:16,342 --> 01:42:20,222
You know, Bitcoin, at least at first, did break all time highs and went to 126.

1215
01:42:20,322 --> 01:42:21,422
I mean, that was only October.

1216
01:42:23,142 --> 01:42:25,442
The stablecoin market exploded.

1217
01:42:25,662 --> 01:42:27,262
There's way more stablecoins now.

1218
01:42:27,262 --> 01:42:29,202
Now the tokenized gold market has exploded.

1219
01:42:29,402 --> 01:42:31,582
Tethers down the largest private gold holder.

1220
01:42:31,582 --> 01:42:39,762
Like all of these things are, you know, are being done basically under the guise of a chaos agent of chaos.

1221
01:42:40,102 --> 01:42:42,622
But in reality, I think it's a lot more controlled than that.

1222
01:42:42,742 --> 01:42:52,922
And this trans fraternal, transgenerational, transnational group that is very possibly behind all of the, you know, the most important players in the Trump government.

1223
01:42:53,322 --> 01:42:54,322
You know, Trump himself.

1224
01:42:54,622 --> 01:42:56,762
Besant is this longtime Soros guy.

1225
01:42:56,762 --> 01:43:03,222
uh lutnik is a lot is an epstein affiliate and is the bad guy for tether uh we're having kevin

1226
01:43:03,222 --> 01:43:20,600
warsh come in as the um uh you know most likely coming in he been picked anyway to be the new fed chair he was an advisor to anchorage digital um up until a week ago till they took his name off of it I mean alongside Max Levchin of PayPal alongside

1227
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:29,340
Stanley Drunkenmiller, another Soros guy. And, you know, Anchorage Digital was the bank that the

1228
01:43:29,340 --> 01:43:34,920
Trump administration gave the first bank charter to as Brian Brooks, who was like a founding,

1229
01:43:34,920 --> 01:43:41,340
not founding, but very early PayPal VP, or sorry, Coinbase VP. He was like their head legal guy that

1230
01:43:41,340 --> 01:43:47,520
set up all the legal environments there to let Coinbase become the publicly traded company that

1231
01:43:47,520 --> 01:43:53,240
it is. And on his last days in office, when Trump's leaving, he sends them a bank charter.

1232
01:43:53,860 --> 01:43:57,1000
Kevin Warsh, you know, Bilderberg Steering Committee member who worked with Teal there,

1233
01:43:58,420 --> 01:44:03,380
and he's advisor to like the one bank that the Trump administration gave the bank charter to

1234
01:44:03,380 --> 01:44:08,660
up until a week ago and now he's going to go run the fed uh and is going to come in to theoretically

1235
01:44:08,660 --> 01:44:17,580
cut rates to zero and let the let the real economic debasement begin um again i don't

1236
01:44:17,580 --> 01:44:21,500
think that's an accident i don't think that's chaos that to me sounds very it doesn't seem like

1237
01:44:21,500 --> 01:44:26,180
an accident when you look at how it doesn't seem like an accident i don't believe in coincidences

1238
01:44:26,180 --> 01:44:31,920
they do happen but i i think what we're going to see is warsh come in and cut rates and we're going

1239
01:44:31,920 --> 01:44:37,140
to see tokenized gold explode and we're going to see Bitcoin explode and we're going to see

1240
01:44:37,140 --> 01:44:42,040
the debasement trade begin. Stocks are going to go crazy because why would you hold anything in

1241
01:44:42,040 --> 01:44:46,580
dollars? Real estate probably will go crazy. And then we'll see these crazy boom busts all

1242
01:44:46,580 --> 01:44:54,640
throughout the system at the same time. And what will be the outcome? I think it will be the U.S.

1243
01:44:54,680 --> 01:45:00,1000
finds a way to basically force demand for dollars and pay off their debt. They'll still be way in

1244
01:45:00,1000 --> 01:45:07,540
debt, but they'll find buyers to service the old debt that they have. And, you know, basically,

1245
01:45:07,540 --> 01:45:14,340
things will turn on for another 10 to 40 years. And then we'll see what drone warfare, AI,

1246
01:45:15,100 --> 01:45:20,580
all the crazy scientific sci-fi future, how that affects power structures. Do we live in a

1247
01:45:20,580 --> 01:45:25,660
multipolar world? Or is it already one world government already? And it's just a bunch of

1248
01:45:25,660 --> 01:45:32,300
theater. We'll find all that out in our lifetime, which is exciting. But, you know, it's going to be

1249
01:45:32,300 --> 01:45:37,140
insane because they don't want us to feel like it's by design. They want us to feel like it's

1250
01:45:37,140 --> 01:45:44,660
chaos. So they will generate social chaos. And if you are engaged all the time and you're online

1251
01:45:44,660 --> 01:45:49,680
and you're getting this dream of slop and you're looking at YouTube shorts and you're on Twitter

1252
01:45:49,680 --> 01:45:53,880
and you're doing the thing, you're going to you're not it's going to be this very gradual

1253
01:45:53,880 --> 01:45:59,360
thing and then you're suddenly oh wow uh every commercial at the super bowl was about ai

1254
01:45:59,360 --> 01:46:05,040
ring doorbell was using ai to find dogs and they can track everything that they see in all the

1255
01:46:05,040 --> 01:46:10,880
neighborhoods in the world i mean it's like like it's insane where we're going and if you're

1256
01:46:10,880 --> 01:46:18,400
involved in looking at the screen like you it'll be so gradual you won't notice um but if you're

1257
01:46:18,400 --> 01:46:22,540
not looking and then you check back in every once in a while like it's so crazy and so insane how

1258
01:46:22,540 --> 01:46:27,540
fast everything is moving. Um, and they keep you on the edge of your seat. I mean, it's like,

1259
01:46:28,260 --> 01:46:32,140
like what's going on in El Paso, Texas? Oh, they closed the border. They closed the, they closed the,

1260
01:46:32,140 --> 01:46:36,800
the airport for 10 days. Cause are we going to war with Mexico? Oh no, it was a balloon.

1261
01:46:37,060 --> 01:46:42,360
And they shot it down and they already like that story happened and ended like this morning for me,

1262
01:46:42,360 --> 01:46:47,940
you know? Um, the chaos of that is like, they're, they're just, they're creating, you know, they're

1263
01:46:47,940 --> 01:46:53,740
wagging the keys and you're looking and then you miss that brian brooks handed anchorage digital a

1264
01:46:53,740 --> 01:46:58,020
bank charter on the final days of the administration because you're still wondering how the fuck biden

1265
01:46:58,020 --> 01:47:02,600
won you know it's like you look away because the keys are so shiny and dangly and jingly

1266
01:47:02,600 --> 01:47:08,660
and then it's like oh holy shit we're in a new financial system um and so like enjoy the ride

1267
01:47:08,660 --> 01:47:14,860
have fun be safe don't fucking lever up like you're gonna get fucked like bitcoin could go to

1268
01:47:14,860 --> 01:47:21,060
40 35 who the fuck knows it could it could it could absolutely go down another 50 for like a

1269
01:47:21,060 --> 01:47:27,320
second and then shoot the fuck back up it could go to zero but i think long term if you hold spot

1270
01:47:27,320 --> 01:47:33,460
and you chill buy some metals buy land get yourself so that you're not dependent on anything

1271
01:47:33,460 --> 01:47:39,620
i don't want anyone listening to this to be a stable coin slave or surf i want to see you have

1272
01:47:39,620 --> 01:47:44,900
assets and have land and live a nice life. And, uh, you know, at least you'll be able to write a

1273
01:47:44,900 --> 01:47:53,040
cool memoir because you saw the, the, the greatest change of the global order, um, you know, maybe

1274
01:47:53,040 --> 01:47:59,900
ever and maybe the final one. Damn, Mark, what a way to end the show. Um, you're fucking awesome.

1275
01:48:00,060 --> 01:48:04,200
Where do people go to find all your writing? Um, where do you want to send people? Yeah. Thanks,

1276
01:48:04,280 --> 01:48:08,120
brother. I think you're the man too, man. I really appreciate these conversations. It's very fun. I,

1277
01:48:08,120 --> 01:48:15,460
It really means a lot that there are places where we can have these conversations and, you know, who the fuck knows what's going to happen.

1278
01:48:15,640 --> 01:48:20,380
But the only thing that I care about is people are informed enough to then go inform themselves.

1279
01:48:20,700 --> 01:48:22,880
So there's a lot of things we've sprinkled out there.

1280
01:48:22,960 --> 01:48:23,580
Go look them up.

1281
01:48:23,820 --> 01:48:28,920
I'll send the email links so you can post them if people want to look at those emails and everything I talked about.

1282
01:48:28,920 --> 01:48:33,580
But you can find me on Twitter, Mark Good W underscore I N.

1283
01:48:33,580 --> 01:48:38,880
uh i try not to be there as much but then when something like this happens i have to go look at

1284
01:48:38,880 --> 01:48:44,620
what everyone's finding and spend a couple days um being in the slop with everyone else um but

1285
01:48:44,620 --> 01:48:49,440
i've been writing for unlimited hangout for a couple years now and we actually just started

1286
01:48:49,440 --> 01:48:55,880
a new publication um called paper cut publishing house um whitney myself and my dear friend ab

1287
01:48:55,880 --> 01:49:02,660
very excited about that our first book is is out it's just shipping now um called the technocratic

1288
01:49:02,660 --> 01:49:09,840
Dark State by Ian Davis, who's the man who, you know, has been writing for UH for a long time,

1289
01:49:09,940 --> 01:49:14,600
too. So find me at Unlimited Hangout. We got a whole bunch of new stuff coming, website redesign,

1290
01:49:15,140 --> 01:49:19,520
maybe some video content, a whole bunch of shit. We want to thank everybody for

1291
01:49:19,520 --> 01:49:23,880
taking care of us for a while. And we got a bunch of cool shit coming, a magazine,

1292
01:49:24,480 --> 01:49:28,700
all this good stuff. So it's been a little bit of a dormancy period for me because I've been

1293
01:49:28,700 --> 01:49:36,500
dealing with a bunch of health issues, but feeling so much better and alive and excited to

1294
01:49:36,500 --> 01:49:41,440
make a bunch of more articles for you. And so that's all coming. So yeah, find me on Twitter

1295
01:49:41,440 --> 01:49:46,1000
and on Limited Hangout. Well, let's go. Thank you, Mark. This was really cool. Hopefully I'll

1296
01:49:46,1000 --> 01:49:50,580
see you in person again at some point soon, but I appreciate you, man. Cheers, brother.

1297
01:49:58,700 --> 01:50:28,680
Thank you.