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The reason they have to continue to create money is that the debt continues to grow,

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and if we don't create money, the debt will collapse.

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The debasement will come.

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Gold will keep running.

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Bitcoin is going to wake up and go from, you know, 90 to 270 or, you know, 3x easily.

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Everybody is saying, you know, we realize that this is a house of cards,

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and the way to think of it is like a game of musical chairs.

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It's not a trade.

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It's a trend.

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I do think that big print's on deck.

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And I do think that when it comes, Bitcoin will respond and it will respond ferociously.

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You know, at some point, the thing is so asymmetric.

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It's just going to explode to the upside.

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Bitcoin's going to smash the system, whether they like it or not.

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Few people understand is how when this thing does hit, when this next wave does hit, it's not going to 140, guys.

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It's going to 250 or 300 or 350.

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Larry Lippard, welcome back on the show.

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The last time we spoke was in September last year,

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and so much stuff has happened since then.

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I was kind of going back through all the macro events since then,

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and we've got a lot to talk about today, Larry.

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Yeah, we sure do, yeah.

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But how are you doing?

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How was your Christmas break?

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Well, it was great.

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It's nice to be with you.

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And as I think I've told you,

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I'm trying to kind of reduce my podcast a lot, but yours is always, Peter had me on in the early days,

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and you guys have always been one of my favorites, so I'm never going to cut out WBD.

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But I'm doing great.

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My vacation was good.

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I'm now in Florida.

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You know, I'm kind of in that old guy camp where, I guess in America they call us snowbirds,

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which means I spend the summer in Boston and the winter in Florida.

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And it's also tax advantage because Florida doesn't have state income tax.

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So I will be here into May and June.

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And, you know, it's pretty nice and sunny outside, whereas I just talked to somebody in Massachusetts and they just got six inches of snow last night.

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Yeah, that's the move.

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I was obviously just in Miami to do the sailor interview and the weather at this time of year is so nice.

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That's the place you want to be doing winter.

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Yeah, it's really great.

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But let's get into it, Larry.

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So when we were speaking last time, I think I titled the episode The Big Print is Coming, something like that.

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a classic Larry Lippard title. And we've not had the big print, but there has been the start of a

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little something. They've been doing the, what are they calling it? The buyback.

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The gradual print. Well, they call it reserve management.

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Yeah.

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Right. And so, yeah, it's notable what happened in the last two Fed meetings. One,

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they stopped the quantitative tightening. And then two, they started saying that they were going to

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potentially do some reserve management because things were getting too tight. And they floated

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the trial balloon of $25 billion and maybe starting in 2026. And then at the Fed meeting in December,

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they came out and they said, no, it's not 25, it's 40, and it starts in two days,

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which kind of told me that they really were under pressure to do it. And just to summarize for the

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audience, most people know this, the reason they have to continue to create money is that the debt

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continues to grow. And if we don't create money, the debt will collapse. So they have to service it.

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And they've tried to be responsible and to reduce inflation. And I think it's an important point

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that they did not want to do this, Danny. I mean, they, you know, Chairman Powell wants to be Paul

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Volcker. He wants to tame inflation. And inflation has not been tamed. Even by their crummy broken

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measure, it's 2.7 to 3%. And we all know it's actually higher than that. So they haven't solved

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the inflation problem, but they've turned the money printer back on. And that's a big deal.

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I'm writing my fourth quarter letter, which will be out soon. It's free. I'll put it on Twitter and

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we talk about that. And it's a very big deal. And so it's, you know, it's 40 billion of purchases

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a month, which adds up to 480 a year, which is not the, you know, 3 trillion that Bernanke printed

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or the 5 trillion that Powell printed. But, you know, my sense is that's the start and it's,

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They pivoted and it's going to grow.

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And Lynn and I have had kind of a nice back and forth on Twitter where she says, well, it's the gradual print, not the big print.

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And I said, yeah, you're right.

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But it could morph into the big print.

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And I think it will.

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And I've actually got a chart on that.

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I don't know if Niles want to go into it, but we could talk a little bit about that if you like.

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Yeah, well, we can pull the chart up.

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But the thing that I thought was really interesting about this is that in 2008, when they did the big QE event then, it was in response to a crisis.

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And then with COVID, it was in response to a crisis.

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And then even with the BTFP thing, that was in response to like a small crisis within like the regional banks.

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But then this time, I don't know if it's the first time it's been like this, but nothing seems to be happening.

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But they are still turning the money printer back on.

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And I don't know if it kind of signifies that the system just needs this now.

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It's not a response something.

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It just needs it all the time.

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I think that's a great insight on your point.

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And I had the same thought myself personally that, you know, yes, the system does need it.

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It's almost a mathematical requirement or certainty.

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And you're right.

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There is no crisis.

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And yet, you know, they're trying to be preemptive.

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They know that if reserves get too tight, they'll have something like the repo blowout in 2019.

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And, you know, they can't have that.

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And they don't want to have that.

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They're trying to fight off a crisis by kind of gradually leaking more money in there.

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I think the problem they're going to have, though, is that the math is just compelling.

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And I think there are a couple, there are probably three macro signals that I see that say that they're really running out of time, and I'll point them out.

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Probably macro signal number one is the price of silver.

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Silver was up 157% last year and just continues to go straight up.

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And there's a lot to unpack there, but we'll just leave it at that.

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The other point is the price of gold, which is very similar.

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It hasn't gone up as much, but it's up 50% plus last year.

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And then the third item is, and I kind of continually retweet this every morning, is the Japanese 10-year bond.

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Japan has been a source of a lot of liquidity in the United States and really all over the world as a result of their carry trade, which was driven by their low interest rates.

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And interest rates in Japan kind of look like a chart of the price of silver.

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You know, the 10-year just kind of goes, it's up and to the right in a very steep fashion.

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So to me, there's some clues, not certainties, but clues that things are breaking and they need to print more money.

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And as we see, they just started printing more money.

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You know, I think that number will grow.

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I said that earlier.

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So you think this gradual print could turn into the big print?

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What would be a, do you think it needs an event, a COVID type, obviously not global pandemic, but like a black swan event to turn into a big print?

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Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know. I really don't know. Yes. I mean, obviously a COVID black swan type event will clearly do it. You know, we're so leveraged that any kind of a serious downturn in the stock market or a blow up in the bond market would be.

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The question is, can we have the big print under just kind of normal circumstances?

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And, you know, it took two big events to create those prior big prints.

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And so you would think, OK, it's going to take a big event this time.

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But one other there's one other thing that's in the mix that I think makes it very an interesting question.

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And that is what's going on with the Federal Reserve and the Federal Reserve management?

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And, you know, the subtext here is, you know, we've got Trump at war with Powell.

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And, you know, it's very unusual for a Fed president to come out on a Sunday night and say that he's going to fight back against, you know, this group within the government that are asking him a lot of questions about the overruns on the building.

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And Trump kind of claims that's not him doing it.

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That's a little bit hard to believe.

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And, you know, the fact of the matter is that, you know, Trump has really kind of got the Fed under siege.

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and as we all know, he has the ability to appoint a new Fed chairman in May

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and a couple of names have been bounced around for that.

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The original name was Hassett, Kevin Hassett, who was very, very dovish,

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said he thinks interest rates should be 1% or 2%.

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And I think what happened is Trump might have gotten a tap on the shoulder

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from a combination of percent and the bond market.

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I said, nah, sir, if you do that, you're going to lose the bond market.

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And I've often thought that the trigger for the next big print

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will be the 10-year, the U.S. 10-year yield, which has kind of been locked in plus or minus around 4%.

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And they've been able to do that because the basis trade has just grown enormously.

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Basis trade is three times larger than it was in 2019, which is shocking to me.

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Yeah, and the basis trade is just they get hedge funds to buy and sell treasury bonds in order to

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keep the yields locked into a certain place. And they lever them up heavily and they make a spread

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on the fact that nothing blows up.

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But when something does blow up,

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then they have to issue swap lines.

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And that was part of what happened in COVID.

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They had to bail out Ken Griffin and Citadel

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and a big participant in the basis trade.

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So if the 10-year were to start to move aggressively

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through 4, 4, 4, 5 to 5%,

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which I think is a very real possibility,

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that would lead to yield curve control.

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I mean, basically, I think what's going on

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is gold and silver smell what's coming.

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It hasn't happened yet, but they think mathematically it has to.

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And so they kind of smell it.

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And we've even seen things that are very, it's very notable to me.

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Stephen Moran is Trump's Council of Economic Advisers guy.

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And he got put on the Fed board when the woman got accused of insider trading.

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And so she resigned.

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That was like the fourth instance of that.

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And when he was getting vetted to be a member of the board, on the Fed board,

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he made a testimony that more or less said something along the lines of,

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The Fed may have to, at some point, be in a position where they set policy on long-term interest rates.

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Well, that's code for yield curve control.

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And yield curve control says the Fed buys the bonds to keep the rates low.

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This is what third world and emerging market countries do.

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What do they buy the bonds with?

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They buy it with newly printed paper that grows their balance sheet.

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And so once that starts, this has a little bit of the gradually then suddenly kind of component to it.

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And so, you know, if the Fed just starts yield curve control and says, let's say we're going to lock like they did after World War II or during World War II, they locked in yields long bonds at 2.5 percent.

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Let's say the Fed says we're going to hold bond yields at 4 percent.

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We're not going to let the 10 year go above 4 percent.

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And let's say, you know, Trump keeps talking the way he's been talking about, you know, occupying countries and growing the defense budget from one trillion to five trillion.

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Well, then the next step is going to be, all right, you're telling me I can only get 4% and we're spending like crazy.

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There's $37 trillion, almost $38 trillion of U.S. federal treasury debt.

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The bond market is going to look at the Fed and say, sold to you.

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Great.

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You'll pay me for my bond at the 4% yield?

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Good.

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I'll give it to you.

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And 38, I mean, their balance sheet right now is about $6.5 trillion, down from $9.

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so i think on the next big print the fed balance sheet goes from that six five to i don't know 10

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15 20 i mean some big number right and if the entire 38 you know trillion came at it you know

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it would really go to a big number and we'd be off on the road to hyperinflation so that's not

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my base case by the way i think we're just gonna have high inflation but um you know all of these

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things to me you know the markets are telling us the silver market and gold market are telling us

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these things are in the works. I mean, gold and silver are really great at smelling this stuff.

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And there's a chart I put out as well in the past, and it's all over my Twitter feed and others that

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it showed. And this time reminds me very much of 2020. So the COVID event occurred,

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the Fed pivoted, they started printing a lot of money quickly. Gold went from 1,200 to 2,000

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quite quickly. And Bitcoin just sat there, you know, for months, it was kind of locked between

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like seven and ten thousand dollars and you know it just kind of went sideways and then suddenly it

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woke up that fall in october and it just went on a tear and in the next six months it went from 10

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to 60 that's 6x and so there was you know it was kind of like gold moved first gold smelled it first

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and then bitcoin followed the flag and i i kind of expect the same thing this time gold's doing

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its thing it's moving it says the debasement is coming the debasement will come gold will keep

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running and then at some point as the debasement comes and the money flows in

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bitcoin is going to wake up and go from you know 90 to 270 or you know 3x easily in my view so

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is it tomorrow no i mean i i have that as within six to six to twelve months i guess but i i could

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be wrong i mean maybe maybe they hold it all together danny it's entirely possible that they

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hold it together i mean they're they're good can kickers i'll give them that you know if you already

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222
00:15:51,620 --> 00:15:53,680
Yeah, I'm not betting on them holding it together.

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I do want to get into the gold and silver trade because I think that's been like probably the most interesting thing over the last six or 12 months.

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Right.

225
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,700
But just before we do, do you want to bring that chart up that you sent me?

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I think that shows how the balance sheet goes exponential.

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00:16:07,580 --> 00:16:11,880
Yeah, this is a really, I love this chart because this was done by Mike Oliver,

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who's a really great macro analyst.

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And let me just show this to you.

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So what you have here, Dan Oliver owns more McCann Capital.

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All credit to him.

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This is his chart, not mine.

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But I read it and saw this is really, this nails it.

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So in his title is American Money Printing Goes Exponential.

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And the chart starts in 1960.

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The lighter gray sloped line, that's kind of a growth curve, you know, pretty much tied to the growth of my spouse.

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It's kind of 7% compound growth.

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And as you can see, compounds are getting 7%.

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Eventually, it starts to go straight up.

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It's kind of exponential.

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And the black line is the Federal Reserve liabilities or the Federal Reserve balance sheet, which really is a measure of the reserves that they put into the system, which the banks then take and lend out.

242
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And that lending is what creates growth in M2.

243
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Okay.

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Okay. So what you can see is that they tracked from 60 to 80, they were together all the way up to 2000, a little blip.

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But basically in 2008, you can see that, you know, the debt kept growing at an exponential pace.

246
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And one thing that's not on here, I kind of wish it was, is the overall level of debt in society.

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Because the debt level in society would kind of track the exponential growth curve.

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And, you know, the debt kind of got ahead of the balance sheet in 08, and we had a panic.

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and boom, they printed.

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And you can see it went up quite a bit from,

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I think the Fed balance sheet was 850 pre-08

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and it topped around three something,

253
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three five, I think at the top.

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And then of course, Yellen and Powell tried to reduce it

255
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and they did start reducing it,

256
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but you can see the second arrow right there,

257
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the repo COVID panic was 2019,

258
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New York repo rates blew out,

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went up to 10% overnight.

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And that was the first Powell pivot.

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And so Powell at that point in time basically said, hey, we can't keep tightening. We've got to loosen. In fact, we've got to do QE. And then, of course, COVID hit and then all hell broke loose and it went straight up. And of course, that's what created the 9% inflation peak that we had. And so eventually he figured out and he said it was transitory, it was wrong. I mean, this is what happens when a lawyer is your central banker. I mean, you can blame a lawyer for not understanding it. I mean, the one who should have understood it is yelling.

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Anybody, when we grew, when they did this thing,

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basically they grew M2 by 40%.

264
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So you can't grow M2 by 40% and think

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you're not going to have inflation.

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I mean, I was just, you know, what were they smoking?

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So, right, but then he started tightening again.

268
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But here, notice this, you know, so they tightened

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and they came from the peak of nine.

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Now the balance sheet is say six five okay But look at how the interesting point is every time the money in the system the black line dipped below kind of the growth in debt line

271
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the exponential growth in debt line, you know, a problem occurred.

272
00:18:54,505 --> 00:18:56,485
Well, look at where we are right now, right?

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00:18:57,145 --> 00:18:59,665
So what do you think is going to happen next, right?

274
00:18:59,665 --> 00:19:03,145
I mean, the black line is about, and the black line is turning up.

275
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This doesn't reflect the December, you know, change policy.

276
00:19:06,965 --> 00:19:09,845
So, you know, you just know what's going to happen next, right?

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this black line's got to go north of $10 trillion. And it will, in my opinion. This isn't just my

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opinion. This is kind of a mathematical fact. I mean, they could not do it. And in which case,

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the debt would start to default and everything would start to collapse. And we'd have a

280
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deleveraging, cascading cycle that would look like 1929. And that would be extremely unpleasant.

281
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And, you know, if they choose to go in that direction, so be it.

282
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I'm making a strong bet that they will not choose to go in that direction.

283
00:19:42,665 --> 00:19:45,485
And I think it's a logical conclusion that they won't.

284
00:19:45,605 --> 00:19:47,605
But I suppose they could, right?

285
00:19:47,705 --> 00:19:51,245
That's a tail risk to the debasement trade that we're all in.

286
00:19:51,705 --> 00:19:56,485
So, but this chart is basically why you think a gradual print isn't sustainable.

287
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Because at some point, like, it just needs to keep up with the debt.

288
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That's exactly right.

289
00:20:00,445 --> 00:20:01,665
It's just not going to cut it.

290
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But so is there like when you say the tail risk, is the tail risk that instead of printing money, they start defaulting on debt and things like that?

291
00:20:10,305 --> 00:20:14,585
Yeah, yeah. It's a possibility that they, you know, they try and maintain discipline.

292
00:20:15,145 --> 00:20:23,205
I mean, I don't I don't think it's particularly likely given, you know, what we know about what Trump has said and his policy.

293
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I mean, we've got Basant saying, you know, that the Fed and the Treasury need to coordinate policy.

294
00:20:28,125 --> 00:20:39,625
We've got Trump saying, you know, that we've got to be more of, I mean, it's becoming clear that this administration and a lot of people in government are kind of starting to view this as, you know, we're going to make up the rules as we go along.

295
00:20:39,705 --> 00:20:48,125
We're in a great power competition with China and Russia and whatever it takes to keep America in the position we want to be in, we're going to do it.

296
00:20:48,645 --> 00:20:50,285
And, you know, it's existential.

297
00:20:50,445 --> 00:20:53,265
They're using words like, you know, we've got to go to a wartime footing.

298
00:20:53,965 --> 00:20:56,305
And, you know, they did it in World War II, right?

299
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I mean, we had to fight fascism.

300
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We took on all kinds of debt.

301
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We suppressed yields.

302
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Bondholders got killed.

303
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Inflation was high.

304
00:21:03,865 --> 00:21:07,045
You know, I think that's kind of where we're heading.

305
00:21:07,125 --> 00:21:08,045
And they're telling you that.

306
00:21:08,145 --> 00:21:09,645
I mean, this is not some secret.

307
00:21:09,845 --> 00:21:15,345
I mean, Trump had a tweet on Truth Social where he said he wanted to see 20% to 25% GDP growth.

308
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Well, you can get that, but only if you have 15% inflation.

309
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Do you know what I mean?

310
00:21:20,805 --> 00:21:22,545
Because you can't get real GDP growth.

311
00:21:22,545 --> 00:21:26,225
I mean, it's not like we're going to increase our productive capacity 25% one year.

312
00:21:26,305 --> 00:21:28,065
That's physically impossible.

313
00:21:28,765 --> 00:21:33,265
Is that impossible even with massive breakthroughs in AI robotics?

314
00:21:34,025 --> 00:21:34,825
Those things will help.

315
00:21:35,065 --> 00:21:39,365
There's no doubt that all of the great technology we've got going on will help,

316
00:21:39,485 --> 00:21:42,645
and it fights against the argument that I'm making.

317
00:21:42,845 --> 00:21:47,105
But I'm of the belief that it's too little too late,

318
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that the problem is bigger than can be solved with the AI and the productivity boom.

319
00:21:53,645 --> 00:21:58,165
I mean, we are really in the later stages of this monetary decay.

320
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And, you know, things like the silver price.

321
00:22:00,865 --> 00:22:05,525
I mean, the silver price and the gold price have done things they've never really ever done before.

322
00:22:05,905 --> 00:22:07,845
You know, just they're kind of relentless.

323
00:22:09,225 --> 00:22:13,065
You know, they did this a little bit in the 80s with the end of that.

324
00:22:13,805 --> 00:22:16,465
And Volcker solved that by taking rates at 20%.

325
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But, you know, he had the space to do it.

326
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At that time, debt to GDP was 35%.

327
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Right now, debt to GDP is 125%.

328
00:22:24,545 --> 00:22:29,805
So they just, you know, the Fed really is kind of trapped.

329
00:22:30,045 --> 00:22:32,925
And in my view, they have to run it hot.

330
00:22:33,265 --> 00:22:35,385
And what's going to be interesting, and they can do that.

331
00:22:35,425 --> 00:22:37,525
And that will keep the economy going, by the way.

332
00:22:38,165 --> 00:22:40,425
But there's just no way that's not inflationary.

333
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I mean, that's the bottom line.

334
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It has to mathematically be inflationary.

335
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And Trump and Vicent have said that their best bet

336
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at solving this problem is to grow their way out of it.

337
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And so that's what I think they're going to try their best to do.

338
00:22:55,945 --> 00:22:58,645
We should talk a little bit about the gold and the silver trade

339
00:22:58,645 --> 00:23:03,245
because I remember when you were in Bedford in March last year,

340
00:23:03,425 --> 00:23:06,145
we did a show and gold had already been ripping.

341
00:23:06,265 --> 00:23:09,165
I think it had just gone over like $3,000 or something.

342
00:23:10,165 --> 00:23:13,465
And you were saying then you could see it having a run at sort of $5,000

343
00:23:13,465 --> 00:23:16,885
and here we are like not even a year later and we're not far off that at all.

344
00:23:18,045 --> 00:23:20,045
What's been driving the gold and silver trade?

345
00:23:20,045 --> 00:23:22,945
Because I imagine this isn't just hedge funds.

346
00:23:23,005 --> 00:23:24,745
Do you think nation states are a big part of this?

347
00:23:24,925 --> 00:23:25,865
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

348
00:23:25,865 --> 00:23:28,865
So a lot of things are driving it.

349
00:23:29,105 --> 00:23:36,445
But I would say that the two biggest drivers are the dollar losing its status as the world's reserve asset.

350
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Not necessarily currency, but asset.

351
00:23:39,205 --> 00:23:39,905
People used to save.

352
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I mean, since 2014, net treasury bills held by foreigners have been flat to down.

353
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People just don't trust the dollar anymore.

354
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They can see what we all can see.

355
00:23:48,765 --> 00:24:08,565
So that's part of it. And then, you know, the Chinese and others, they've stood up the Shanghai Gold Exchange and the volumes there are huge. And, you know, you've now got China trading with Saudi Arabia. And if Saudi Arabia ends up with too many yuan and they don't want it, they can't buy goods from China for it. They just converted it gold. In the old days, with the petrodollar, they would have converted that excess into US dollars.

356
00:24:08,565 --> 00:24:14,905
And so, you know, so you've got nation states going for gold as a neutral reserve asset.

357
00:24:15,105 --> 00:24:16,785
That's part number one.

358
00:24:16,865 --> 00:24:20,965
You've also got central banks realizing the problem and central bank purchases have been

359
00:24:20,965 --> 00:24:23,025
growing and they're large and steadily growing.

360
00:24:23,545 --> 00:24:27,465
And you've got a third issue that kind of falls into a little bit of the conspiracy

361
00:24:27,465 --> 00:24:29,025
theory world.

362
00:24:29,205 --> 00:24:34,005
But, you know, I would consider we all know that a lot of conspiracy theories have kind

363
00:24:34,005 --> 00:24:35,565
of become conspiracy facts.

364
00:24:35,565 --> 00:24:39,305
and that is kind of the paper markets

365
00:24:39,305 --> 00:24:40,945
that have manipulated these things.

366
00:24:41,065 --> 00:24:44,005
I mean, the United States and others for years and years,

367
00:24:44,185 --> 00:24:46,025
and I know this, I believe this,

368
00:24:46,485 --> 00:24:48,125
there's absolutely conclusive evidence

369
00:24:48,125 --> 00:24:50,045
if you go to the GAB site or a lot of other places

370
00:24:50,045 --> 00:24:53,525
to show it, that they've suppressed

371
00:24:53,525 --> 00:24:55,445
the precious metals prices because they know

372
00:24:55,445 --> 00:24:57,885
that doing so helps their inflation numbers look better

373
00:24:57,885 --> 00:25:01,205
and they've done it by selling paper gold

374
00:25:01,205 --> 00:25:02,005
and paper silver.

375
00:25:02,905 --> 00:25:05,325
And you can do that as long as buyers

376
00:25:05,325 --> 00:25:07,265
are willing to accept paper gold and paper silver.

377
00:25:07,405 --> 00:25:09,625
And up until more recently, that's been the case.

378
00:25:09,705 --> 00:25:12,425
But what's happened, and you see it this year in the data,

379
00:25:12,525 --> 00:25:14,125
and it's really kind of stunning data, Danny.

380
00:25:14,165 --> 00:25:16,825
I don't have it right in front of me, but trust me on this,

381
00:25:16,885 --> 00:25:19,665
that people are starting to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's nice.

382
00:25:19,705 --> 00:25:20,705
I've got a derivative contract.

383
00:25:20,805 --> 00:25:25,405
I've got a CME contract for, you know, one CME contract is 5,000 silver ounces.

384
00:25:25,565 --> 00:25:27,445
It's five bars at 1,000 ounces a piece.

385
00:25:27,445 --> 00:25:29,585
I know because I took delivery of one once.

386
00:25:29,665 --> 00:25:32,545
It bottomed out the trunk of my car when I put them in the trunk.

387
00:25:32,545 --> 00:25:37,605
And, you know, they're saying, you know, give me the silver.

388
00:25:37,945 --> 00:25:39,085
You know, yeah, I bought the contract.

389
00:25:39,305 --> 00:25:42,625
And it's funny, when I said I want the silver delivered, they were like, no, you don't.

390
00:25:42,865 --> 00:25:43,365
I was like, yeah, I do.

391
00:25:43,405 --> 00:25:44,825
And they were like, well, there are going to be charges.

392
00:25:45,165 --> 00:25:48,265
And, you know, we're willing to pay you a small premium to not take delivery.

393
00:25:48,405 --> 00:25:49,145
I said, no, that's not what I want.

394
00:25:49,185 --> 00:25:50,765
I want you to give me the damn bars.

395
00:25:51,405 --> 00:25:54,585
And eventually they did, but it took a lot to do it.

396
00:25:55,045 --> 00:25:56,625
And that's happening everywhere.

397
00:25:56,805 --> 00:26:00,625
Everybody is saying, you know, we realize that this is a house of cards.

398
00:26:00,625 --> 00:26:04,085
And the way to think of it is like a game of musical chairs, right?

399
00:26:04,165 --> 00:26:12,085
I mean, a real silver bar is a chair, and a paper silver claim, that's not a chair.

400
00:26:12,305 --> 00:26:16,125
And so if you take the paper claim and say, I want the real bar, there are only so many bars.

401
00:26:16,285 --> 00:26:24,285
I mean, the silver market is so financialized and so papered over that we buy in 850 million ounces of silver every year.

402
00:26:25,045 --> 00:26:27,405
We trade that in half a day.

403
00:26:28,245 --> 00:26:30,265
So, I mean, think about that.

404
00:26:30,265 --> 00:26:36,325
I mean, there are days when we trade two times the annual mining volume on one of the silver paper exchanges.

405
00:26:36,445 --> 00:26:37,085
Isn't that crazy?

406
00:26:37,765 --> 00:26:38,285
That's crazy.

407
00:26:38,365 --> 00:26:43,025
What that tells you is there's just a lot of paper claims against what's really being produced.

408
00:26:43,365 --> 00:26:49,285
And, you know, we're moving from a world where paper, you know, we've had 50 years of, you know,

409
00:26:49,305 --> 00:26:52,645
the U.S. had the leading form of paper and paper could be used to buy everything.

410
00:26:52,865 --> 00:26:55,205
And, you know, you didn't need to really have the stuff.

411
00:26:55,705 --> 00:26:59,925
And, you know, the bricks and others in the world are now kind of saying, well,

412
00:27:00,265 --> 00:27:03,365
That's all really nice that you got that paper, but show me the stuff.

413
00:27:04,065 --> 00:27:07,845
You know, I can't build a solar panel with a silver paper contract.

414
00:27:08,045 --> 00:27:11,245
I can't, you know, build my Tesla with a silver paper contract.

415
00:27:11,425 --> 00:27:12,565
And you've seen it.

416
00:27:12,665 --> 00:27:13,445
I mean, you've seen it.

417
00:27:13,505 --> 00:27:14,985
It's reached even down to the company level.

418
00:27:15,145 --> 00:27:16,385
I thought this was very interesting.

419
00:27:16,485 --> 00:27:19,165
A company I'm involved with, Samsung.

420
00:27:19,565 --> 00:27:21,105
So silver, and that's the other thing about silver.

421
00:27:21,225 --> 00:27:22,345
Silver demand is really growing.

422
00:27:23,045 --> 00:27:25,245
Silver demand, silver is used heavily in solar now.

423
00:27:25,245 --> 00:27:26,365
It used to be used in photography.

424
00:27:26,505 --> 00:27:27,705
That's gone away because of digital.

425
00:27:27,705 --> 00:27:32,445
but it's also being used in these new batteries that uh toshiba and samsung have developed and

426
00:27:32,445 --> 00:27:35,765
they're not commercial yet but they use a lot of silver but the solar demand alone

427
00:27:35,765 --> 00:27:41,805
i've read that the solar demand in china um could consume over half of it's right now it's about 20

428
00:27:41,805 --> 00:27:46,585
percent of world silver supply and that will grow to over a half in the next five years if it

429
00:27:46,585 --> 00:27:51,385
continues at the current slope right and then you bring these chinese these japanese companies who

430
00:27:51,385 --> 00:27:55,545
have these new solid state batteries that require a lot of silver um you know they're going to have

431
00:27:55,545 --> 00:27:59,685
enormous demand too. And so if you took a lot of electric cars, a lot of electric batteries with

432
00:27:59,685 --> 00:28:04,085
these silver, you know, silver component, there's going to be demand getting added there. And to

433
00:28:04,085 --> 00:28:08,585
that point, one of those companies, I believe it was Samsung, went to one of the companies I'm

434
00:28:08,585 --> 00:28:13,125
invested in and said, we're going to invest $10 million in you on very preferential terms,

435
00:28:13,245 --> 00:28:17,825
slightly above market. But in exchange for that, you're going to agree to sell all your production

436
00:28:17,825 --> 00:28:26,105
to us. Now, why does a user of silver do that? And not at some fixed price. They're not trying

437
00:28:26,105 --> 00:28:30,805
to arb the price. I say, whatever the market price is, they are worried about their supply.

438
00:28:30,985 --> 00:28:36,385
They know supply is tight and they want to have a guaranteed source of supply. So they're willing

439
00:28:36,385 --> 00:28:40,945
to make an investment in the company to help them and lock in that supply. So that's the kind of

440
00:28:40,945 --> 00:28:44,925
thing that's going on. So this is very real. And in Bitcoin land, others, I've seen people say,

441
00:28:44,925 --> 00:28:46,605
well, look at the chart of silver.

442
00:28:46,685 --> 00:28:47,225
It's a parabola.

443
00:28:47,305 --> 00:28:47,905
This is a short.

444
00:28:47,985 --> 00:28:50,285
It's going to collapse like it did with the Hunt brothers,

445
00:28:50,345 --> 00:28:51,245
like it did in 2011.

446
00:28:52,325 --> 00:28:53,445
I'm not so sure.

447
00:28:53,765 --> 00:28:55,865
I mean, you asked me my target price on silver.

448
00:28:56,565 --> 00:28:58,405
I mean, we'll be at 100 in days.

449
00:28:58,805 --> 00:29:00,965
And, you know, I mean, how high up is up?

450
00:29:01,005 --> 00:29:01,785
I just don't know.

451
00:29:02,385 --> 00:29:04,365
But it's been suppressed for so long,

452
00:29:04,425 --> 00:29:07,105
and 50 was a ceiling for so long.

453
00:29:07,105 --> 00:29:08,325
We broke through that ceiling.

454
00:29:09,185 --> 00:29:10,405
200 could be possible.

455
00:29:10,525 --> 00:29:11,165
I've seen 500.

456
00:29:11,325 --> 00:29:11,985
It's not nuts.

457
00:29:11,985 --> 00:29:21,425
I mean, it's interesting that the precious metals, I say this a lot and people kind of laugh, but the precious metals have no top because fiat has no bottom.

458
00:29:23,125 --> 00:29:26,045
And I'm not predicting hyperinflation yet.

459
00:29:26,105 --> 00:29:27,185
It's not my base case.

460
00:29:27,725 --> 00:29:32,805
I just think high inflation is very likely built into the system.

461
00:29:33,225 --> 00:29:35,565
And there's really no way to avoid it.

462
00:29:35,565 --> 00:29:38,625
I mean, other than letting everything collapse, which I don't think they'll do.

463
00:29:38,625 --> 00:29:43,305
So you think this sort of commodity bull run is nowhere near over yet?

464
00:29:43,665 --> 00:29:47,025
Absolutely. I'm going to say it in my letter. I think we're in the second inning.

465
00:29:47,525 --> 00:29:51,525
I really do. And it's very hard. I mean, look, my fund's up a lot. I've got investors saying,

466
00:29:51,585 --> 00:29:53,825
God, we've got all these profits. Should we take them? And I'm like,

467
00:29:54,305 --> 00:29:58,225
yeah, let's take a little bit. And we actually distributed 10% of the fund this year to our

468
00:29:58,225 --> 00:30:02,685
investors. Just said, yeah, it's prudent in case we're wrong to take a little bit of the profit

469
00:30:02,685 --> 00:30:09,125
off the table. But no, I think that, you know, this is a case of we're in early days of this

470
00:30:09,125 --> 00:30:16,165
kind of a problem. Unless we see sudden, and when I say this, people always chuckle because it's not

471
00:30:16,165 --> 00:30:21,405
like, but if we see sudden responsible behavior out of the United States government, you know,

472
00:30:21,485 --> 00:30:26,645
balanced budget, et cetera, that, you know, it's, well, look, it's not, you know, stranger things

473
00:30:26,645 --> 00:30:31,305
have happened, right? I mean, you know, if they got, if they started behaving in a responsible

474
00:30:31,305 --> 00:30:38,405
fashion, then we'd have to reevaluate our thesis. But I see them going the other way. Like I said,

475
00:30:38,445 --> 00:30:44,545
Trump said, I was shocked when he said it. He said, our defense budget is just under a trillion

476
00:30:44,545 --> 00:30:48,605
dollars. And he said, we should take it to one five. I'm like, sir, where the hell is that going

477
00:30:48,605 --> 00:30:53,865
to come from? Do you know what I mean? I mean, it's nuts. It's nuts. I mean, safety noise used

478
00:30:53,865 --> 00:30:57,985
to say the biggest threat to Bitcoin was responsible fiscal policy by governments,

479
00:30:57,985 --> 00:31:04,525
which really means there's no threat to Bitcoin. I think that's what most of us see. But look,

480
00:31:04,625 --> 00:31:12,285
I've got my eyes open. I've been burnt before and I'm not believing my own bullshit here. If

481
00:31:12,285 --> 00:31:17,145
there's evidence and the price starts to show me that we're wrong, then I'll react to that.

482
00:31:17,985 --> 00:31:26,405
I know a lot of people, I have investors, I've talked to people in my cohort, and I know a lot

483
00:31:26,405 --> 00:31:29,965
wealthy people, most of them don't own gold or silver or Bitcoin, they own stocks.

484
00:31:30,385 --> 00:31:33,425
And they're all talking to me and they're just like, God damn, Larry, I'm just too late.

485
00:31:33,545 --> 00:31:35,645
And I'm like, no, you're really not.

486
00:31:37,185 --> 00:31:40,845
As you and I both know and agree, I mean, Bitcoin will be at a million someday and then

487
00:31:40,845 --> 00:31:42,005
some higher number than that.

488
00:31:42,505 --> 00:31:44,745
I think gold 10,000 is very doable.

489
00:31:44,965 --> 00:31:46,625
So buying it at four is not nuts.

490
00:31:46,805 --> 00:31:47,605
I mean, four and a half.

491
00:31:47,605 --> 00:31:55,625
I mean, so it's, you know, to me, it's interesting because, you know, remember that year, one of

492
00:31:55,625 --> 00:31:59,105
things I pointed out is that they've labeled this now. They've come out and they've called it the

493
00:31:59,105 --> 00:32:04,385
debasement trade. I mean, it really started in a big way in September, right after the fall came

494
00:32:04,385 --> 00:32:09,905
in. And at that point in time, Doge was dead and it became very clear and the big, beautiful bill

495
00:32:09,905 --> 00:32:14,465
had passed. And so they're going to spend another three or $400 million more than they thought.

496
00:32:14,865 --> 00:32:18,925
And it became, and Elon had given up on it all because, you know, he's a smart guy and he realized

497
00:32:18,925 --> 00:32:26,225
he couldn't fix it. So he walked away from it. And, um, yeah, so, you know, at that point in time,

498
00:32:26,225 --> 00:32:30,585
you know, gold and silver just woke up and said, okay, we know what comes next guys, you know,

499
00:32:30,605 --> 00:32:37,885
we're, um, let's go. And, you know, the, I think that these people who asked me, am I too late?

500
00:32:37,905 --> 00:32:41,925
I just, I say to them, you know, it's, it's not a trade. I mean, they call it the debasement trade.

501
00:32:41,945 --> 00:32:48,705
It's not a trade. It's a trend. It's a multi-year trend. And I don't know what the top is. And will

502
00:32:48,705 --> 00:32:52,305
there'll be corrections? Sure. You know, there'll be corrections in all of these assets. But,

503
00:32:52,545 --> 00:32:57,505
but I think the trend in all, all sound money assets, silver, gold, Bitcoin is up and to the

504
00:32:57,505 --> 00:33:01,765
right strongly. So yeah, the idea of a trade implies that at some point you're going to want

505
00:33:01,765 --> 00:33:07,385
to sell it back for dollars. And I thought about that. I thought, should I sell some of my gold

506
00:33:07,385 --> 00:33:11,705
and silver? Where would I put it now? Now it's interesting in my case, because I've got assets

507
00:33:11,705 --> 00:33:15,185
in both of these camps, as you know, one of the hardest things I've had to do in this whole

508
00:33:15,185 --> 00:33:21,845
goddamn sound money world. And I got the Bitcoiners criticizing me for being a boomer with rocks.

509
00:33:22,205 --> 00:33:26,565
And I got the rocks guys criticizing me for believing in magic internet money. And I get

510
00:33:26,565 --> 00:33:33,645
all these trolls on Twitter. Trust me, fucking nuts. But it is the one nice part about having

511
00:33:33,645 --> 00:33:39,525
that balance of these two assets is like right now, I am trimming some silver mining, some silver

512
00:33:39,525 --> 00:33:44,365
and gold positions. And I'm buying MicroStrategy because to me, MicroStrategy at 1.7 is just

513
00:33:44,365 --> 00:33:49,005
money laying on the floor. It's like, go pick it up. I mean, you know, the MNAV has gotten

514
00:33:49,005 --> 00:33:53,845
completely compressed. There's nothing broken with the thesis. You know, I sincerely believe

515
00:33:53,845 --> 00:34:00,045
that Saylor is a genius and he will continue to, you know, do what he's doing and that this will

516
00:34:00,045 --> 00:34:06,405
be a thousand dollar stock. So, you know, on a relative basis, you know, Bitcoin and strategy

517
00:34:06,405 --> 00:34:12,265
are cheaper to me right now than gold and silver in the debasement trade. It's interesting too,

518
00:34:12,265 --> 00:34:17,505
daniel point something out you know three years ago bitcoin was flying and gold and silver stocks

519
00:34:17,505 --> 00:34:21,545
were in the sewer and everyone hated them and and that was when a lot of bitcoin said why don't you

520
00:34:21,545 --> 00:34:25,545
just dump that shit do you know what i mean it's like yeah i don't know i think we got a couple

521
00:34:25,545 --> 00:34:29,965
more puffs in the cigar i'm not going to give up you know and and here we are and it's kind of

522
00:34:29,965 --> 00:34:34,665
worked and right now i got a lot of you know shift and all these other gold guys are like hey see the

523
00:34:34,665 --> 00:34:39,505
bitcoin thesis is broken it's all over you know it hasn't correlated we got five years of flat

524
00:34:39,505 --> 00:34:43,445
performance. I mean, Luke Groman, who I love and think is brilliant and I've learned a ton from,

525
00:34:43,625 --> 00:34:47,645
you know, even he kind of backed away from, I don't know, you know, maybe, you know, he lightened

526
00:34:47,645 --> 00:34:52,725
up and I'm just like, gosh, guys, you know, to me, that just feels like, you know, this New York

527
00:34:52,725 --> 00:34:57,885
Times piece, right? And it totally attacked, total cheap shot hit piece on Sailor. I mean, to me,

528
00:34:57,885 --> 00:35:02,365
that's going to be like the magazine indicator, you know, inflation is dead or, you know, I mean,

529
00:35:02,405 --> 00:35:06,325
gold is a pet rock. I mean, they, they, the, you know, the journal published an article,

530
00:35:06,325 --> 00:35:12,425
gold as a pet rock right at the bottom in 2015. I mean, they almost nailed the low price of gold

531
00:35:12,425 --> 00:35:18,545
at $1,000. And here we are at $4,500. And so, you know, they're attacking Saylor. And I think in

532
00:35:18,545 --> 00:35:23,725
two years, Saylor's going to have the last laugh. And I think Bitcoin's going to wake up and, you

533
00:35:23,725 --> 00:35:27,425
know, it's like the Christopher Walken's lion. It's going to wake up and just show everybody

534
00:35:27,425 --> 00:35:33,185
who's boss. So I'm very sanguine about it, but that's because I've been at this for a long,

535
00:35:33,185 --> 00:35:39,245
long time and I've seen these you know these psychological swings occur and it's just like

536
00:35:39,245 --> 00:35:44,345
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556
00:37:21,605 --> 00:37:24,505
I'm the Lou Grohman one. I'm with you. I think Luke's brilliant.

557
00:37:24,505 --> 00:37:39,770
I learned an absolute ton from him I love his newsletter Um I really enjoy having him on the show but he um he sold at least a portion of his Bitcoin a couple of months ago And the reason being was that he thought the four cycle was still a thing which I just think that out the window

558
00:37:40,030 --> 00:37:43,130
I'm more and more coming around to the fact that maybe it never really existed.

559
00:37:43,290 --> 00:37:44,950
Maybe it was just sort of the quiddity cycles.

560
00:37:45,230 --> 00:37:46,390
I don't really know.

561
00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:47,430
I'm not sure that's his reasoning.

562
00:37:47,530 --> 00:37:51,530
When I heard him talk about it, I think his reasoning was a little bit more that it was still trading like an equity.

563
00:37:51,690 --> 00:37:53,730
It wasn't trading like a neutral reserve asset.

564
00:37:54,890 --> 00:37:55,810
Which is true.

565
00:37:55,810 --> 00:38:02,290
there's some of that i mean it started to detach from the triple q's but um and it is it's clearly

566
00:38:02,290 --> 00:38:08,770
risk on um you know versus gold which is more risk off but you know think about selling an asset with

567
00:38:08,770 --> 00:38:13,710
this much um asymmetry to it i mean you know so he sold it in the 90s he's got to pay tax so now

568
00:38:13,710 --> 00:38:18,250
he's you know he's got it's got to drop into the 60s or 70s to just get the same amount of bitcoin

569
00:38:18,250 --> 00:38:23,530
after he pays his taxes on what he sold right and so to me you're picking up nickels in front of a

570
00:38:23,530 --> 00:38:28,970
steamroller right so you're hoping it'll go to 50 and by the way it might go to 50 it might go to 60

571
00:38:28,970 --> 00:38:33,610
i mean i have that in my model i my partner and i talk about this a lot we have it as about a 30

572
00:38:33,610 --> 00:38:38,510
chance that we're not done with this bitcoin correction and there's one more cleansing flush

573
00:38:38,510 --> 00:38:43,990
sometime in the next three months before the real big print comes but i think that you know

574
00:38:43,990 --> 00:38:50,150
as i mapped out earlier i do think that big print's on deck and i do think that when it comes

575
00:38:50,150 --> 00:38:53,310
Bitcoin will respond and it will respond ferociously.

576
00:38:54,410 --> 00:39:00,950
And so, you know, I mean, Fred Kruger wrote a really good book, which I recommend a lot, called Bitcoin One Million.

577
00:39:02,270 --> 00:39:09,510
And in that book, he had a very interesting statistic, which is that from 18 to 24, Bitcoin went up 7 or 8x.

578
00:39:09,910 --> 00:39:11,670
You missed the 10 best days.

579
00:39:12,210 --> 00:39:13,090
You didn't make any money.

580
00:39:13,730 --> 00:39:16,310
I mean, so how do you, you know, how do you time?

581
00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:18,050
I mean, how do you time this asset?

582
00:39:18,050 --> 00:39:24,110
And so it's a classic to me because as you're, you know, I thought your last interview with Saylor was really great.

583
00:39:24,270 --> 00:39:27,550
And I, you know, my take is he was just having a bad day.

584
00:39:27,630 --> 00:39:29,270
And I think he was a little hard on me unnecessarily.

585
00:39:29,370 --> 00:39:32,430
I'm not sure he really, I think you guys were kind of talking past each other.

586
00:39:32,430 --> 00:39:35,190
Because he's right that anyone buying Bitcoin, we should support.

587
00:39:35,470 --> 00:39:39,070
But you are right that not all of these, you know, Bitcoin treasury companies are going to make it.

588
00:39:39,130 --> 00:39:40,830
And some of them were pretty poorly run, to be fair.

589
00:39:40,830 --> 00:39:48,890
um so um but you know it's um it's a situation where um you know at some point the thing is

590
00:39:48,890 --> 00:39:54,670
is so asymmetric it's just gonna it's gonna explode to the upside so i i don't get it i

591
00:39:54,670 --> 00:39:59,910
mean you know like i say kruger said that you know 10 days you missed 10 days and you lost the

592
00:39:59,910 --> 00:40:04,470
money you lost money i mean i don't want to know when those i don't want to not be there i guess

593
00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:10,090
is the point i'm making right a hundred percent and like i i'm not someone who can predict the

594
00:40:10,090 --> 00:40:16,470
price of Bitcoin, but I would be surprised if it went back down to 50, 60K. And like, it could,

595
00:40:16,590 --> 00:40:21,290
it could. And if it does, I'll buy more Bitcoin. But I don't, it's not, it's not my sort of base

596
00:40:21,290 --> 00:40:26,190
case. So like the question I'd want to ask Luke is when does he sort of, if it doesn't go down

597
00:40:26,190 --> 00:40:29,930
there, when does he capitulate and buy back? I listened to him carefully and he said, he thinks

598
00:40:29,930 --> 00:40:33,990
it'll go down there. You know, he, he expects, I mean, I think the other reason, and to be fair,

599
00:40:34,010 --> 00:40:39,990
he may be right about this. He does expect some kind of something breaking and a real deflationary

600
00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:44,350
flush that I think then leads to the big print. I think that's more his model, that it's going to

601
00:40:44,350 --> 00:40:49,790
look like COVID or it's going to look like 2008. And that in that environment, you might see 60,

602
00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:54,770
50, whatever it might be, and he would buy it. He also, in a more recent interview, I listened to,

603
00:40:54,770 --> 00:41:00,650
because I listened to everything he says, like I said, he's brilliant. He said, look, if it turns

604
00:41:00,650 --> 00:41:05,290
around and they start printing like crazy and the print comes and it goes to 110 or 115 and I got to

605
00:41:05,290 --> 00:41:06,690
buy it back slightly higher, fine.

606
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:08,110
You know, I'll do that.

607
00:41:09,250 --> 00:41:13,150
You know, look, everybody manages their own money in their own way.

608
00:41:13,390 --> 00:41:15,430
And, you know, it's not a religion.

609
00:41:15,650 --> 00:41:20,690
It's not like, you know, all you're doing is you're making probability-based bets.

610
00:41:20,690 --> 00:41:23,470
And he's been so damn right about so many things.

611
00:41:24,030 --> 00:41:25,310
He may be right about this one, too.

612
00:41:25,370 --> 00:41:28,050
Another really good guy I respect is Michael Oliver.

613
00:41:28,750 --> 00:41:31,290
He's not a Bitcoin fan, but he's a very good technical analyst.

614
00:41:31,750 --> 00:41:34,870
And his technical models show up going to 60,000 as well.

615
00:41:35,290 --> 00:41:44,230
If you kind of look at it in Elliott Wave terms, the first wave down was an A round, then to 80, it bounced back up here into the 90s, that's a B, and then the C should take it below the 80.

616
00:41:44,890 --> 00:41:54,710
I'm not sure we get to 60. 70s probably seems likely. But I bought some microstrategy yesterday. I mean, I want to own a lot of microstrategy.

617
00:41:54,710 --> 00:41:57,590
I've got some cash from having sold some silver stocks.

618
00:41:58,430 --> 00:42:02,670
And so I'm going to just kind of dollar cost average micro strategy for the next six months.

619
00:42:03,050 --> 00:42:09,190
Because I know that at 170, you know, I mean, if Bitcoin goes to 50 or 60, strategy is going to 110.

620
00:42:09,950 --> 00:42:12,830
But, you know, you can't, I mean, that's the thing.

621
00:42:13,050 --> 00:42:15,710
You can't get the absolute tops and the absolute bottoms.

622
00:42:15,830 --> 00:42:16,750
That's what Rothschild said.

623
00:42:16,850 --> 00:42:18,770
You know, you can't be a pig, right?

624
00:42:18,770 --> 00:42:21,370
I mean, when things are on the cheap side of the board, you buy them.

625
00:42:21,850 --> 00:42:23,950
And when things are on the expensive side of the board, you sell them.

626
00:42:23,950 --> 00:42:25,790
And by the way, that's why I've been selling a little bit of silver.

627
00:42:25,930 --> 00:42:30,810
I mean, I think silver's still got quite a ways to run, but I could be wrong about that.

628
00:42:30,890 --> 00:42:31,990
So I've sold some.

629
00:42:32,110 --> 00:42:37,050
I mean, I've got silver that I bought in the 80s and 90s for $6 an ounce.

630
00:42:37,370 --> 00:42:39,610
I mean, what is it today?

631
00:42:39,730 --> 00:42:41,130
I mean, it's like 80-something.

632
00:42:41,310 --> 00:42:42,270
It's nuts, right?

633
00:42:43,230 --> 00:42:44,150
Yeah, that's not bad.

634
00:42:44,570 --> 00:42:45,990
Yeah, I've got silver right now at 94.

635
00:42:46,230 --> 00:42:47,050
I mean, this is crazy.

636
00:42:47,050 --> 00:42:52,390
So if I didn't sell some, I mean, one of the things when I look at investing, one of the things I try and do is,

637
00:42:52,390 --> 00:42:57,030
because I've done this for so long and I've made so many mistakes, is you try to minimize regret,

638
00:42:57,390 --> 00:43:00,330
right? And you think when you're sitting there and looking at something, you say, well,

639
00:43:00,690 --> 00:43:07,150
if, you know, okay, so silver's at 94 and I think it's going to 300. Okay. But guess what? It can

640
00:43:07,150 --> 00:43:12,190
also go down to 40 again. And if it's a 94 and I didn't sell any, what were you, some kind of an

641
00:43:12,190 --> 00:43:16,490
idiot? Do you know what I mean? So am I going to sell all my silver? Hell no. Am I going to peel

642
00:43:16,490 --> 00:43:20,690
off 5%? Yeah. And then, and then what's cheap right now? Oh, MicroStrategy is pretty cheap.

643
00:43:20,690 --> 00:43:24,310
well, maybe I'll sell 5% of my silver and I'll buy some MicroStrategy, right?

644
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:29,490
So it's just, you know, that's, I mean, I'm a, you know, I'm a professional investment manager.

645
00:43:29,590 --> 00:43:30,190
That's what I do.

646
00:43:30,290 --> 00:43:32,790
And so to me, it's all about kind of probability and odds.

647
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:36,530
None of us know anything with certainty, but you can kind of lean, you know,

648
00:43:36,550 --> 00:43:39,510
you can lean into things when you think you're on the right side of stuff, right?

649
00:43:40,590 --> 00:43:40,950
Yeah.

650
00:43:41,050 --> 00:43:45,530
I mean, so one of my, this might be a bit of a mid-care take on what's going to happen this year,

651
00:43:45,530 --> 00:43:53,770
But with the midterms coming up, like Trump is obviously worried that if he doesn't do well in the midterms, he's going to get impeached, like all sorts of stuff.

652
00:43:53,990 --> 00:43:59,530
He needs to have an incredible year, which means he needs the economy to be running like absolutely blazing.

653
00:44:00,390 --> 00:44:08,830
So he's going to do everything in his power, which is obviously why he's doing the stuff he's doing with the Fed, to just make the economy the best economy the U.S. has ever seen, essentially.

654
00:44:09,270 --> 00:44:12,650
And so I don't know how you bet against Bitcoin in that environment.

655
00:44:12,750 --> 00:44:15,410
I don't know how you can sell Bitcoin now with that coming up.

656
00:44:15,530 --> 00:44:17,130
I completely agree with you.

657
00:44:17,330 --> 00:44:19,710
I mean, it's just, yeah, the politics of it all.

658
00:44:19,830 --> 00:44:23,710
I mean, what he said, you know, the aggressiveness of Venezuela and Greenland.

659
00:44:23,850 --> 00:44:25,130
I mean, all of it.

660
00:44:25,190 --> 00:44:28,030
I mean, it's just, you know, the 1-5 on the defense budget.

661
00:44:28,750 --> 00:44:33,190
I mean, you know, money is, you know, they will find the money.

662
00:44:33,350 --> 00:44:34,550
They will spend the money.

663
00:44:34,550 --> 00:44:38,870
They will have, and, you know, the tell, the thing to watch,

664
00:44:38,930 --> 00:44:40,270
I think it's kind of surprising to me,

665
00:44:40,330 --> 00:44:42,270
but I guess it's the basis trade that's held it together,

666
00:44:42,410 --> 00:44:45,270
is that the 10-year, the U.S. 10-year is hung in there at 4%.

667
00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:52,010
I mean, I just can't imagine who would want to own a U.S. 10-year bond paying 4% when you've got a government that's out of control.

668
00:44:52,130 --> 00:44:55,110
It makes no sense to me, but it is what it is.

669
00:44:55,490 --> 00:44:58,830
But at some point, I think that will break, and that'll be the tell.

670
00:44:59,770 --> 00:45:01,510
That is what I watch most carefully.

671
00:45:02,770 --> 00:45:07,710
So do you think if that's true and Trump tries to run this incredibly hot going through the rest of this year,

672
00:45:08,070 --> 00:45:10,270
asset prices will do really well.

673
00:45:10,330 --> 00:45:13,590
Do you think he'll be able to do that without inflation coming back in a serious way?

674
00:45:13,590 --> 00:45:37,550
Well, yes and no. So as you know, there's a lag between the time when you print and the time when the inflation shows up. Right. So and they're probably they're probably trying to time it well. You know that the sense that I mean, Paul's out in May. You know, hopefully they get a new Fed share. They let's let's say hypothetically they can get the rates down to two or one. I don't know if they can.

675
00:45:37,550 --> 00:45:42,590
I mean, there is a board and they all vote, but I think they're going to really bully the shit out of the people at the Fed.

676
00:45:43,570 --> 00:45:48,390
That would lead to a whole round of refis that would lead to a lot of, you know, real estate transactions.

677
00:45:48,430 --> 00:45:51,610
That would lead to a lot of borrowing and locking in those low rates.

678
00:45:52,030 --> 00:45:56,810
And by the way, it would bring down the U.S. interest costs because we've financed everything short term.

679
00:45:57,530 --> 00:46:00,570
You know, and our average interest cost right now is about 3.3%.

680
00:46:00,570 --> 00:46:06,290
I mean, if bills got down to 1.5%, you know, that trillion dollars we're spending on interest would get cut.

681
00:46:06,290 --> 00:46:07,730
and that would make the deficit smaller.

682
00:46:07,890 --> 00:46:10,730
So that's another consideration that they're facing.

683
00:46:10,730 --> 00:46:16,330
And, you know, all of those things will lead to rapid, in my opinion, M2 growth.

684
00:46:16,670 --> 00:46:19,010
But that doesn't necessarily happen immediately.

685
00:46:19,170 --> 00:46:24,030
If you'll recall with COVID, you know, they printed a lot of money very quickly starting in 2020.

686
00:46:24,590 --> 00:46:27,810
But the peak inflation was kind of 12 to 18 months.

687
00:46:27,890 --> 00:46:29,150
I'd have to go back and look at the numbers.

688
00:46:29,330 --> 00:46:31,650
But it takes a little while to show up, you know.

689
00:46:31,650 --> 00:46:42,870
So, you know, they might, you know, print the money, get the high, feel good, you know, and the inflation prints are still okay, you know, and so they cruise through November and they get the seats.

690
00:46:43,010 --> 00:46:43,650
But guess what?

691
00:46:44,330 --> 00:46:48,210
You know, inflation in 2027 goes back and heads towards double digits.

692
00:46:48,510 --> 00:46:48,910
You know what I mean?

693
00:46:49,570 --> 00:46:51,490
So just more kicking the can down the road.

694
00:46:51,610 --> 00:46:53,070
Yeah, I could see that scenario.

695
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:56,790
That's kind of, that's my best guess as to how it plays, right?

696
00:46:57,930 --> 00:46:59,730
Larry, you're like a free markets guy.

697
00:46:59,730 --> 00:47:06,050
And one thing that I've never really understood, like Trump said that he wants to get the rates down to like 1%.

698
00:47:06,050 --> 00:47:09,390
Surely that shouldn't be the cost of capital.

699
00:47:09,530 --> 00:47:10,630
That seems too low.

700
00:47:10,730 --> 00:47:12,790
Like, what do you think the cost of capital should be?

701
00:47:12,990 --> 00:47:13,930
Oh, it's way too low.

702
00:47:14,110 --> 00:47:22,170
Well, so none of us really know because we're living in a Potemkin artificial world.

703
00:47:22,170 --> 00:47:28,490
I mean, the real cost of capital is set by the balance of savings and investment demand.

704
00:47:28,490 --> 00:47:34,010
And, you know, and that would only occur if we didn't have a Federal Reserve and we had a true free market for interest rates.

705
00:47:34,150 --> 00:47:37,610
But we're so far away from that to be ridiculous.

706
00:47:37,830 --> 00:47:42,150
I mean, if you look at the level of inflation we have, you know, across the capital should be higher.

707
00:47:43,570 --> 00:47:47,270
I can't answer the question because I just I don't even begin to know.

708
00:47:47,330 --> 00:47:49,630
And things are just so crazy distorted.

709
00:47:50,970 --> 00:47:56,750
But I mean, one thing I do know is true, though, if you look at the chart of what the federal funds rate has done since Volcker,

710
00:47:56,750 --> 00:48:00,590
I mean, you know, they jack it up, they drop it down, they jack it up, they drop it down.

711
00:48:00,610 --> 00:48:04,650
We'd almost be better off if it had just been set on autopilot at 4% or something.

712
00:48:05,250 --> 00:48:05,770
Do you know what I mean?

713
00:48:05,850 --> 00:48:08,290
I mean, it's because we've got these enormous swings.

714
00:48:08,490 --> 00:48:11,050
I mean, you know, Volcker quote rates up to 20%.

715
00:48:11,050 --> 00:48:16,030
I mean, and setting, I mean, part of what created this mess and has us where we are now, Danny,

716
00:48:16,090 --> 00:48:18,470
that's so screwed up, and I talk about this a lot in the book.

717
00:48:19,050 --> 00:48:23,230
I mean, zur, the whole notion that capital is free, it's just insane.

718
00:48:23,230 --> 00:48:23,510
Insane.

719
00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:25,050
That's like a tautology.

720
00:48:25,050 --> 00:48:31,110
It's like a crime, it's like a chart crime against, you know, against capitalism.

721
00:48:31,390 --> 00:48:32,490
You can't have free capital.

722
00:48:33,070 --> 00:48:38,770
You know, okay, if you say interest rates are zero, you're implying that money has no value, which one could argue that's true when it comes to fiat.

723
00:48:39,610 --> 00:48:46,110
But, you know, I mean, ZERP was just a, it was ridiculous, you know, and it was a free subsidy to everyone who could borrow money.

724
00:48:46,690 --> 00:48:48,530
And that's why all these cotillionaires got rich.

725
00:48:48,870 --> 00:48:53,730
And so, you know, it's, this is no way to run a railroad.

726
00:48:54,070 --> 00:48:55,490
It's just no way to run a railroad.

727
00:48:55,490 --> 00:48:59,930
And, you know, that's all pretty depressing and it's tearing the country apart.

728
00:49:00,030 --> 00:49:03,170
And you see all the bad social things that are happening in Minneapolis, everywhere.

729
00:49:03,450 --> 00:49:09,050
And, you know, it all just comes back down to the money being broken, which, again, is why I wrote the book.

730
00:49:09,130 --> 00:49:14,370
I just I wish the country understood that, you know, and I think most Bitcoiners understand it.

731
00:49:14,450 --> 00:49:16,070
It's the base layer that's broken.

732
00:49:16,530 --> 00:49:18,870
And it's not unsolvable, folks.

733
00:49:18,870 --> 00:49:30,210
I mean, if we go back to a sound-based layer, you know, we've got all this great technology, and if we don't get into a world war and we don't all kill each other, you know, everything will reorganize.

734
00:49:30,330 --> 00:49:39,890
Now, there will be winners and losers, you know, people who hold debt will get wiped out, and there'll be a lot of inflation in the transition, but, you know, things will be good again.

735
00:49:39,890 --> 00:49:48,170
I mean, it's, you know, we are all productive actors who will, with the right incentives, do the right things and make the world a much better place.

736
00:49:48,170 --> 00:50:08,170
And so, you know, all I'm waiting for is to get through this fourth turning and return to that sound money. The problem is that, you know, it's going to take, it's probably going to take crisis or semi-crisis conditions to get us there because, you know, the average boobus Americanus and certainly all the politicians aren't going to take us there on their own.

737
00:50:08,170 --> 00:50:19,730
Although one interesting possibility, and I've talked about this on other pods, is that Trump and or Bessent do something really, really bold, which is to try and do a monetary reset.

738
00:50:19,730 --> 00:50:24,050
and I don't know if they have the political space, I don't know if they have the guts

739
00:50:24,050 --> 00:50:27,630
but we could theoretically skip the

740
00:50:27,630 --> 00:50:31,670
let's go to super high inflation, the country tears itself apart and the currency fails

741
00:50:31,670 --> 00:50:35,190
by Besant waking up one morning and saying

742
00:50:35,190 --> 00:50:38,930
we're going to revalue gold at $30,000

743
00:50:38,930 --> 00:50:41,650
we're going to revalue Bitcoin at a million dollar coin

744
00:50:41,650 --> 00:50:47,230
and the government will now exchange your dollars for either of those two things

745
00:50:47,230 --> 00:50:51,270
bring us a million dollars, we'll give you a Bitcoin. Bring us your ounce of gold, we'll give

746
00:50:51,270 --> 00:50:56,590
you $25,000. Or give us $25,000, we'll give you an ounce of gold. And we are now on a sound money

747
00:50:56,590 --> 00:51:03,910
standard, period. And 1971, gone, done. Oh, and by the way, we're going to balance the budget by

748
00:51:03,910 --> 00:51:10,770
basically cutting expenses here and there. And the TGA would be revalued. And that markup of the TGA

749
00:51:10,770 --> 00:51:15,090
would be used to pay down the government debt. I mean, if they did that, it would be enormously

750
00:51:15,090 --> 00:51:20,510
painful for bondholders it would be enormously one-time inflationary but it would you know so

751
00:51:20,510 --> 00:51:25,630
it's like ripping off the band it would hurt like shit but you know on a go forward basis we would

752
00:51:25,630 --> 00:51:33,610
actually have a sound money solution um now you know that's my 10 case because i just i don't know

753
00:51:33,610 --> 00:51:38,310
that they'll have the guts to do it and i mean and and even even i may be wrong about it i mean it's

754
00:51:38,310 --> 00:51:45,050
a scary step i mean i i could be wrong about the way that it plays out um so you know will they do

755
00:51:45,050 --> 00:51:50,570
it? I don't know. But I do know this. I do know that until we get back to sound money, I think

756
00:51:50,570 --> 00:51:55,950
inflation is going to be the problem of our age. And, you know, the more likely path on the whole

757
00:51:55,950 --> 00:52:00,150
thing is I think inflation just gets worse and worse and worse. You know, the blue team wins in

758
00:52:00,150 --> 00:52:06,230
2028 and inflation really gets bad. Maybe the currency even fails with all their actions. And

759
00:52:06,230 --> 00:52:10,610
then, you know, I've said this in other pods, I really do believe there's some chance that we get,

760
00:52:10,610 --> 00:52:15,910
you know, Michael Saylor stands up and says, Hey, you know what? Uh, you know, I've studied history.

761
00:52:16,130 --> 00:52:20,470
I went to MIT. I'm an engineer. I understand how this all got broken. I've got the receipts. I'm

762
00:52:20,470 --> 00:52:24,730
the richest man in the world. Cause Bitcoin's at $10 million a coin. I'm going to burn my keys.

763
00:52:24,790 --> 00:52:29,910
I don't give a shit about any of that. I want to be the Thomas Edison slash, um, you know,

764
00:52:29,970 --> 00:52:35,330
Thomas Jefferson of our age and, um, you know, elect me as president and we're going to reform

765
00:52:35,330 --> 00:52:40,290
the constitution and reset this whole goddamn system. I mean, that's my, that's my hope for

766
00:52:40,290 --> 00:52:47,250
my kids because the other going the other direction, you know, it could be decades of pain, you know,

767
00:52:48,130 --> 00:52:52,130
you know, trying all these other solutions that won't work. You know what I mean?

768
00:52:53,170 --> 00:52:58,850
I'm surprised you put the idea of a percent and Trump doing a monetary reset at 10%. Like that

769
00:52:58,850 --> 00:53:06,930
seems very, very high to me. 10 seems high or 10 seems low? No, 10 seems high. I think that would

770
00:53:06,930 --> 00:53:11,810
be the most ballsy move by any president ever, probably. I think that's right. But think about

771
00:53:11,810 --> 00:53:15,970
it. Think about it. I mean, it's going to come down to Basant. And Basant basically said,

772
00:53:16,770 --> 00:53:19,890
we need a new Bretton Woods and I want to be at the table when it happens.

773
00:53:20,450 --> 00:53:24,690
They understand it. Moran understands it. I mean, Trump might realize that,

774
00:53:24,690 --> 00:53:30,110
that, you know, if he lets, I mean, let's say, let's say it's 2028 and inflation's raging and

775
00:53:30,110 --> 00:53:35,190
it looks like Vance is going to lose and blue team's going to win. You know, why not, why not

776
00:53:35,190 --> 00:53:39,410
throw a Hail Mary pass and just say, screw it. You know, let's try and reset this whole goddamn

777
00:53:39,410 --> 00:53:43,970
thing. And, you know, he'd get challenged in the courts and everything else, but, you know, Nixon

778
00:53:43,970 --> 00:53:49,950
did it. FDR did it. Lincoln did it. You know, I mean, the money to monetary stuff is supposed to

779
00:53:49,950 --> 00:53:54,370
be controlled by the constitution, you know, article in section eight and Congress, but, you

780
00:53:54,370 --> 00:53:57,830
know that's not what's happened there's a practical matter the chief executive has done it

781
00:53:57,830 --> 00:54:04,550
and you know it's i i i think it's 10 i do i i think it's i think there is some possibility i

782
00:54:04,550 --> 00:54:10,170
think they you know you have to remember these guys i mean in my opinion for all their and there's

783
00:54:10,170 --> 00:54:13,370
there's some good things about them there's there's a lot of flaws about them i mean don't you know

784
00:54:13,370 --> 00:54:19,510
don't get me started on the epstein files but um you know or doge uh trump coin trump and melania

785
00:54:19,510 --> 00:54:26,790
coin, right? But, you know, I think they are thinking, you know, about what's truly best for

786
00:54:26,790 --> 00:54:32,270
America and maintaining our sovereignty and our leading position in the world versus, you know,

787
00:54:32,310 --> 00:54:37,110
a couple, I mean, look, I don't love our government, but I think I love it more than I love the Russian

788
00:54:37,110 --> 00:54:41,630
government and the Chinese government. And so, you know, and I think they do too. And I think

789
00:54:41,630 --> 00:54:46,450
they basically want to try to maintain our position of leadership. And, you know, returning

790
00:54:46,450 --> 00:54:50,850
to sound money in this way would be, in my view, would keep us in a leading position,

791
00:54:51,330 --> 00:54:56,370
particularly if they have Bitcoin in the picture. I mean, because I don't think China has made any

792
00:54:56,370 --> 00:55:01,850
kind of a bet on Bitcoin. And I think China has a lot more gold than they say they have.

793
00:55:02,750 --> 00:55:08,570
So leapfrogging China with a Bitcoin piece of the whole solution would be a big positive in my view.

794
00:55:09,290 --> 00:55:13,310
Yeah. I mean, the risk I'm sure they would have to calculate is whether it's worth it to give up

795
00:55:13,310 --> 00:55:18,150
being like the global hegemon. But I mean, I think it would be an amazing thing to happen.

796
00:55:19,150 --> 00:55:25,130
I don't know. You may be right, Ted. It may be high. I mean, maybe I'm a dreamer. I don't know.

797
00:55:26,710 --> 00:55:31,230
It's probably, sadly, we probably just keep stumbling along down this road

798
00:55:31,230 --> 00:55:35,230
until it gets so painful that everyone demands a solution. I mean,

799
00:55:35,950 --> 00:55:41,530
if we get kind of South America-style inflation in the double digits,

800
00:55:41,530 --> 00:55:46,010
you know i mean this country has been through so much and people are hurting so badly

801
00:55:46,010 --> 00:55:50,830
and you can already see it you know in so many different measures of the social fabric being

802
00:55:50,830 --> 00:55:58,810
torn um you know i it's it i i pray that at some point in time you know the large remnant within

803
00:55:58,810 --> 00:56:04,370
this country will stand up and say god damn it give us politics give us politicians who are willing

804
00:56:04,370 --> 00:56:09,950
to you know to balance the budget and return to a sound monetary unit i mean you know i mean

805
00:56:09,950 --> 00:56:25,655
Another data point you may not be aware of Judy Sheldon is a sound money person she a gold person She proposed a treasury bond with a gold piece or gold back into it or gold exchange clause in it so that you would be protected in terms of the purchasing power of your principal And you know Andy Sheckman says

806
00:56:25,655 --> 00:56:30,675
Sheldon told him that she was in a meeting with Trump and Trump said, that's a great idea. Maybe

807
00:56:30,675 --> 00:56:35,955
we do that in July of 26 when we have the 250th anniversary of the country. We introduced that

808
00:56:35,955 --> 00:56:41,455
bond. So, I mean, these, these ideas are not, they're not completely, you know, alien or far

809
00:56:41,455 --> 00:56:47,095
fetched, you know, to, to the people who are in office today. Now that doesn't mean they're going

810
00:56:47,095 --> 00:56:53,555
to do them. I mean, the, the idea of like a goldback bond or a bit back or a bit bond is,

811
00:56:53,855 --> 00:56:58,915
seems like a no brainer to me, that kind of thing I could see happening. And I guess that would be a

812
00:56:58,915 --> 00:57:03,775
step in the right direction towards returning to a sound money standard. Absolutely. Yeah, no,

813
00:57:03,775 --> 00:57:09,215
absolutely and they should do both of those things tomorrow yeah i mean it's um and it's not it's not

814
00:57:09,215 --> 00:57:13,695
that painful or that hard to do i mean that's that's a that's a step it doesn't fully solve it

815
00:57:13,695 --> 00:57:18,415
but it gets you know it gets you thinking and i mean they tried to kind of do it i mean they were

816
00:57:18,415 --> 00:57:21,535
you know what they were hoping what was sent was hoping was that these stable coins were going to

817
00:57:21,535 --> 00:57:25,615
solve the problem that there'd be enough stable coin demand for all those treasures but if you

818
00:57:25,615 --> 00:57:29,535
actually run the math you look at the size of the stable coin market versus the size of the treasury

819
00:57:29,535 --> 00:57:34,735
market, sabre corns are just too small still, and they're not growing fast enough to absorb it.

820
00:57:34,815 --> 00:57:39,375
So that's not going to bail them out. I mean, they've been kind of throwing Hail Marys, right?

821
00:57:39,515 --> 00:57:43,495
I mean, or they've been, you know, Doge was a Hail Mary, you know, Elon, we're going to save two

822
00:57:43,495 --> 00:57:48,795
trillion. Oh, no, well, we'll save a trillion. Well, maybe this kind of doesn't work. Oh, shit.

823
00:57:49,195 --> 00:57:56,955
I'm fed up. I'm smart. I'm not wasting my time here. I'm gone. I mean, it's sadly, sadly, it's a

824
00:57:56,955 --> 00:58:04,075
very, very broken system and reforming it is just no piece of cake. So, you know, but I mean, I, I,

825
00:58:04,075 --> 00:58:08,695
I believe in a higher power. So I think this higher power sent us Bitcoin. And I think that,

826
00:58:08,695 --> 00:58:13,135
you know, we're basically, Bitcoin is going to smash the system, whether they like it or not.

827
00:58:13,955 --> 00:58:19,315
And the, the only real issue is on what time scale. And, you know, I, I kind of think that

828
00:58:19,315 --> 00:58:23,955
all this, I mean, fourth turnings tend to last between 20 and 30 years. This one started in 08.

829
00:58:23,955 --> 00:58:30,515
so 2028 is the short end of the line and 2038 is the long this will get resolved probably in the

830
00:58:30,515 --> 00:58:36,875
early 30s in my opinion we're not too far away not that far away actually if we're you know

831
00:58:36,875 --> 00:58:42,755
talking you know five six seven eight years so i mean we're getting to the point where it's you

832
00:58:42,755 --> 00:58:48,375
know we're serious now right i mean these metals moves are serious i i said on twitter and a lot

833
00:58:48,375 --> 00:58:52,355
of people laughed at me but i said on twitter you know wouldn't it be ironic if silver was the

834
00:58:52,355 --> 00:58:56,955
Lehman Brothers of this cycle. I mean, there's somebody, you know, if some big banks are short

835
00:58:56,955 --> 00:59:02,235
silver, you know, they're going to go, they could go BK. And if they do, their governments will have

836
00:59:02,235 --> 00:59:05,975
to bail them out. And then that will lead to, you know, all the leverage in the system could

837
00:59:05,975 --> 00:59:13,575
come cascading down. And, you know, there's your big print, right? So one of the questions I've

838
00:59:13,575 --> 00:59:18,455
always had for you, Larry, and I've never actually properly asked you. So since the first time I

839
00:59:18,455 --> 00:59:22,795
think I ever spoke to you. You've been talking about how gold price was suppressed for decades.

840
00:59:24,115 --> 00:59:29,435
I guess this is a two-part question. Do you think that suppression is ending? And also,

841
00:59:29,795 --> 00:59:32,735
the second question being, how do we avoid that for Bitcoin?

842
00:59:33,415 --> 00:59:38,275
That's a great question. Yeah. So yes, I do think it's ending because people are demanding

843
00:59:38,275 --> 00:59:43,615
the physical and you're at the stage where we can see the man behind the curtain and we don't

844
00:59:43,615 --> 00:59:47,215
believe him. So it's like, give me the gold. So yes, I think to answer your first question,

845
00:59:47,215 --> 00:59:50,455
You know, something that's happening for gold.

846
00:59:51,555 --> 00:59:52,595
Bitcoin thing is interesting.

847
00:59:52,795 --> 00:59:54,175
There is paper Bitcoin.

848
00:59:54,555 --> 00:59:58,135
I mean, if you go to the Binance Perpetual Futures, you know, it has grown a lot.

849
00:59:58,275 --> 01:00:01,855
You can go and you can buy paper Bitcoin and somebody can sell you paper Bitcoin.

850
01:00:02,575 --> 01:00:08,595
And you've got to put a contract on the Bitcoin price and no Bitcoin ever, you know, that was demand that you had, but no Bitcoin ever got purchased.

851
01:00:09,055 --> 01:00:11,315
So that market has grown a lot.

852
01:00:11,675 --> 01:00:15,955
James Check, checkmate, one of your country mates, has done a really good job of this.

853
01:00:15,955 --> 01:00:16,895
He's got some great charts.

854
01:00:16,895 --> 01:00:18,955
You can subscribe to a service to get them, but we do.

855
01:00:19,715 --> 01:00:21,455
And that whole market has grown quite a bit.

856
01:00:22,855 --> 01:00:27,875
I've often said that they had 50 years to perfect the gold manipulation scheme.

857
01:00:28,675 --> 01:00:30,375
And they had Cayman Islands entities.

858
01:00:30,595 --> 01:00:31,855
They had central banks that owned it.

859
01:00:31,915 --> 01:00:32,615
They had the BIS.

860
01:00:32,855 --> 01:00:33,935
They had all these different things.

861
01:00:34,795 --> 01:00:35,815
Bitcoin's a different animal.

862
01:00:36,055 --> 01:00:36,835
It's a lot harder.

863
01:00:36,975 --> 01:00:37,915
One, it's not as old.

864
01:00:38,095 --> 01:00:40,755
Two, the suppression mechanisms aren't as developed.

865
01:00:41,335 --> 01:00:45,255
And three, one of the things that Bitcoin can do that gold never has done,

866
01:00:45,255 --> 01:00:48,295
Bitcoin can go up 6x in six months, right?

867
01:00:48,835 --> 01:00:51,135
And so, you know, when they had a problem with gold,

868
01:00:51,295 --> 01:00:54,015
I mean, a bad year for them in gold was 20% and 30%.

869
01:00:54,015 --> 01:00:56,075
Well, they'd sell into it, create a narrative,

870
01:00:56,375 --> 01:00:57,335
drive it back down.

871
01:00:57,635 --> 01:00:59,195
And even if they needed to print the money

872
01:00:59,195 --> 01:01:00,435
to cover the 20% or 30%,

873
01:01:00,435 --> 01:01:02,375
that wasn't a lot of money on a relative

874
01:01:02,375 --> 01:01:04,215
to keeping the whole system going basis.

875
01:01:04,875 --> 01:01:07,155
When you're short something and it goes up 6x,

876
01:01:07,835 --> 01:01:10,355
that's, you know, that's a come to Jesus moment, right?

877
01:01:10,535 --> 01:01:13,355
I mean, you know, so if you're suppressing it

878
01:01:13,355 --> 01:01:17,135
with paper Bitcoin and the price goes, does that.

879
01:01:17,495 --> 01:01:20,015
In fact, that's part of what drives it to go up the 6X

880
01:01:20,015 --> 01:01:23,275
is the fact that, you know, when we break through this 26,

881
01:01:24,075 --> 01:01:25,415
you're going to see people scramble

882
01:01:25,415 --> 01:01:27,175
that are on the wrong side of that trade.

883
01:01:27,315 --> 01:01:28,975
I mean, there's a big pair on Wall Street that said,

884
01:01:29,495 --> 01:01:30,355
you know, they had a pair trade

885
01:01:30,355 --> 01:01:32,475
where they're long with triple Qs and short Bitcoin.

886
01:01:32,955 --> 01:01:34,315
And that pair trade has actually worked

887
01:01:34,315 --> 01:01:36,275
because the triple Qs have hung in there

888
01:01:36,275 --> 01:01:37,055
and Bitcoin has failed.

889
01:01:37,515 --> 01:01:38,875
I think it's a stupid trade

890
01:01:38,875 --> 01:01:41,415
because I think the triple Qs are overvalued.

891
01:01:41,935 --> 01:01:43,255
I think Bitcoin is undervalued.

892
01:01:43,355 --> 01:01:48,855
but as long as it works, it works until, you know, they get too far out over their skis and then it

893
01:01:48,855 --> 01:01:54,715
reverses. And that's what causes Bitcoin to trade like the wild animal it trades at. And so what I

894
01:01:54,715 --> 01:01:59,635
think few people understand is how when this thing does hit, when this next wave does hit,

895
01:01:59,855 --> 01:02:07,215
it's not going to 140, guys. It's going to 250 or 300 or 350. I mean, because there will be so much,

896
01:02:07,895 --> 01:02:10,735
you know, there'll be two things happening. There'll be all the shorts who have to cover

897
01:02:10,735 --> 01:02:12,895
or else they're going to get their faces ripped off.

898
01:02:13,215 --> 01:02:15,495
And then it'll be a whole new category of long D-gens

899
01:02:15,495 --> 01:02:17,855
who'll come in and who'll lever it and go long it, right?

900
01:02:18,475 --> 01:02:20,415
And that's what'll shove it to 400.

901
01:02:20,555 --> 01:02:22,915
And then from 400, by the way, it'll correct back to 150.

902
01:02:23,715 --> 01:02:28,075
But I mean, it's the nature of a speculative asset

903
01:02:28,075 --> 01:02:29,875
that's being adopted.

904
01:02:29,875 --> 01:02:32,315
You know, this is, and if you go look

905
01:02:32,315 --> 01:02:34,035
at a very long-term price chart of Amazon,

906
01:02:34,235 --> 01:02:36,195
which is a similar network-based business,

907
01:02:36,795 --> 01:02:39,995
it had multiple, you know, one had 190% correction

908
01:02:39,995 --> 01:02:43,355
and multiple 60, 70, a lot of 40, 50% corrections.

909
01:02:43,515 --> 01:02:44,875
I mean, either it's going to take over the world

910
01:02:44,875 --> 01:02:45,615
or it's going to die.

911
01:02:46,335 --> 01:02:47,855
And right now, Bitcoin's in the, you know,

912
01:02:47,915 --> 01:02:48,875
right now we're kind of hearing,

913
01:02:49,015 --> 01:02:51,735
oh, it's not, I mean, I just saw a tweet this morning

914
01:02:51,735 --> 01:02:52,355
from a gold guy.

915
01:02:52,715 --> 01:02:54,835
Well, not really looking like digital gold, is it?

916
01:02:55,375 --> 01:02:56,695
And I was just kind of, you wait.

917
01:02:57,495 --> 01:02:59,655
Okay, you know, just wait.

918
01:02:59,955 --> 01:03:01,035
You just relax.

919
01:03:01,775 --> 01:03:03,255
You know, it's not a straight line,

920
01:03:03,455 --> 01:03:06,315
but, you know, I'll take the other side of that bet

921
01:03:06,315 --> 01:03:07,995
and in two years, we'll see who looks right.

922
01:03:07,995 --> 01:03:19,435
So you don't think it's an issue that so much Bitcoin is now being owned in a non-self-custodial way through the options on Ibit, strategy or treasury companies?

923
01:03:19,435 --> 01:03:26,655
I don't. Yeah, that goes to the issue of are they going to grab it all? And I suppose that's a possibility and it's always a risk.

924
01:03:26,915 --> 01:03:32,315
But let's be honest, Danny. I mean, we had to have the ETF. We had to have corporate adoption.

925
01:03:32,475 --> 01:03:35,635
We had to have nation state adoption, sovereign wealth fund adoption.

926
01:03:35,635 --> 01:03:40,555
And all of those things had to happen or this asset wouldn't become what we thought it was going to become.

927
01:03:40,755 --> 01:03:42,675
So they're all net good.

928
01:03:42,815 --> 01:03:46,235
I mean, as you know, I'm a real self-sovereignty nut.

929
01:03:46,435 --> 01:03:51,055
And I think, you know, having control of your coins is critical.

930
01:03:51,515 --> 01:04:01,895
But that, you know, for people who don't want to do that or can't do that, you know, the 6102 risk, I don't view it as being that large yet.

931
01:04:02,555 --> 01:04:04,555
I mean, I think it's one of those things we've got to watch.

932
01:04:04,555 --> 01:04:10,115
you know how dystopian does our government get i mean you know let's i mean let's map it out so

933
01:04:10,115 --> 01:04:16,695
let's say it's now 2028 and sadly red team loses blue team wins you know and we've got i don't know

934
01:04:16,695 --> 01:04:21,575
stephanie kelton's the treasury secretary and the narrative develops that this great keynesian

935
01:04:21,575 --> 01:04:25,535
monetary system that we've had going for all these years that's being ruined by these gold and silver

936
01:04:25,535 --> 01:04:30,495
and bitcoin people and we need to tax that shit at 90 in fact we need to go further than that

937
01:04:30,495 --> 01:04:33,995
we need to just seize it because they're ruining this country.

938
01:04:34,135 --> 01:04:35,555
They're ruining the financial system.

939
01:04:36,115 --> 01:04:37,375
And so we're going to seize it.

940
01:04:37,555 --> 01:04:38,275
And here you go.

941
01:04:38,355 --> 01:04:39,035
Here's your cash.

942
01:04:39,775 --> 01:04:41,175
Send us your Bitcoin.

943
01:04:41,535 --> 01:04:45,135
Well, if you're in an ETF, Fidelity and BlackRock,

944
01:04:45,255 --> 01:04:48,055
they're going to comply with the law and send the Bitcoin in and give you the cash.

945
01:04:48,135 --> 01:04:49,755
The cash will buy less the next day.

946
01:04:50,455 --> 01:04:52,055
But that's just the way it's going to go down.

947
01:04:52,175 --> 01:04:53,455
Same is true with the gold and silver.

948
01:04:54,175 --> 01:04:55,995
And that's one of the possibilities.

949
01:04:56,875 --> 01:04:59,675
It's one of the reasons why I sincerely feel like we've got to make a lot of it.

950
01:04:59,675 --> 01:05:04,555
And by the way, the other thing that's going to happen with absolute certainty if you study history is taxes are going to go up.

951
01:05:04,835 --> 01:05:11,315
I mean, just, you know, it's just, it's, we've been lucky to have such a low tax rate environment.

952
01:05:11,475 --> 01:05:17,615
I mean, you got to remember when Reagan came in in 80, you know, top marginal tax rate in the United States was like 70%.

953
01:05:17,615 --> 01:05:19,815
You know, I mean, right?

954
01:05:20,095 --> 01:05:28,335
I mean, it's, I mean, there's been, and, you know, with all this wealth inequality, I mean, you think a blue team in 2028 isn't going to jack taxes on everybody?

955
01:05:28,495 --> 01:05:29,195
Of course they are.

956
01:05:29,195 --> 01:05:37,895
It's going to be horrible, which is also another reason why, and I'm not suggesting anybody don't pay their taxes or cheat or any of that kind of crap.

957
01:05:37,955 --> 01:05:47,775
I'm just saying that if you own money that's got no counterparty in your own possession and you lose it in a boating accident, I don't know.

958
01:05:47,835 --> 01:05:48,795
How are they going to tax it?

959
01:05:48,955 --> 01:05:50,795
I mean, good luck with that, right?

960
01:05:52,375 --> 01:05:54,775
But it's a real consideration, right?

961
01:05:56,115 --> 01:05:58,135
Yeah, I mean, I think that's definitely true.

962
01:05:58,135 --> 01:06:00,895
The 6102 is a tail risk.

963
01:06:01,035 --> 01:06:02,115
I think it's obviously possible.

964
01:06:02,315 --> 01:06:03,215
I don't think it's likely,

965
01:06:03,635 --> 01:06:05,935
but I could 100% see them taxing Bitcoin

966
01:06:05,935 --> 01:06:06,795
at an insane rate.

967
01:06:06,795 --> 01:06:07,475
Oh, absolutely.

968
01:06:07,955 --> 01:06:10,015
And using us as scapegoats for the system.

969
01:06:10,015 --> 01:06:10,695
Oh, absolutely.

970
01:06:10,815 --> 01:06:12,035
Those damn sound money people,

971
01:06:12,195 --> 01:06:12,895
Jesus Christ,

972
01:06:12,995 --> 01:06:14,155
look at what they've done to our beautiful kids.

973
01:06:14,155 --> 01:06:15,575
How dare they want to save their money.

974
01:06:15,975 --> 01:06:17,135
Yeah, exactly.

975
01:06:18,275 --> 01:06:20,835
I can't believe that they pulled this off.

976
01:06:20,835 --> 01:06:21,195
Right?

977
01:06:21,515 --> 01:06:22,935
And so, yeah,

978
01:06:23,055 --> 01:06:27,915
you really are seeing these camps dividing.

979
01:06:28,135 --> 01:06:33,255
between the socialist communist side of the world and those of us who believe in liberty and freedom

980
01:06:33,255 --> 01:06:38,915
and all the things that are in the constitution. We've got to fight like hell to make sure that

981
01:06:38,915 --> 01:06:46,775
our side wins. I think our side will win. We're heavily armed. That's a positive, right?

982
01:06:48,555 --> 01:06:49,655
Not here in Australia.

983
01:06:50,035 --> 01:06:55,015
Well, I know you guys aren't. Yeah, but you've got brave guys that'll go tackle guys with rifles.

984
01:06:55,015 --> 01:06:56,395
That guy was a stud.

985
01:06:57,435 --> 01:06:58,835
Yeah, that was insane.

986
01:06:59,155 --> 01:07:00,235
That was absolutely insane.

987
01:07:00,535 --> 01:07:01,835
While the police were terrified.

988
01:07:02,255 --> 01:07:02,735
Is that right?

989
01:07:03,555 --> 01:07:03,915
Yeah.

990
01:07:05,555 --> 01:07:07,135
Larry, I always love to talk to you.

991
01:07:07,175 --> 01:07:09,635
Is there anything that's happening in the macro world at the moment

992
01:07:09,635 --> 01:07:11,095
that we've not talked about that you want to?

993
01:07:11,775 --> 01:07:12,415
Well, let's see.

994
01:07:12,575 --> 01:07:12,895
I don't know.

995
01:07:14,815 --> 01:07:17,995
No, I mean, I think we've kind of hit most of the high points.

996
01:07:19,055 --> 01:07:21,435
I mean, I guess the big thing we didn't really talk about

997
01:07:21,435 --> 01:07:27,015
was what happens with the Fed becoming less or completely non-independent.

998
01:07:27,015 --> 01:07:32,075
Yeah. Well, I think, yeah, we haven't talked about that. I think that in general,

999
01:07:33,015 --> 01:07:37,355
it'll be interesting to see because in general, the history of the Fed has been that the chairman

1000
01:07:37,355 --> 01:07:41,235
kind of pushes whatever the direction is and he beats everybody else into accepting

1001
01:07:41,235 --> 01:07:44,895
his decisions. I mean, that's kind of behind the scenes what occurs.

1002
01:07:45,475 --> 01:07:51,055
But as a practical matter, they actually really can vote and do vote. And so, you know, I don't

1003
01:07:51,055 --> 01:07:54,915
think I've ever been, you know, and occasionally they'll have a few dissents, but, you know,

1004
01:07:54,915 --> 01:08:01,475
it's never like gets down to a split vote where one person swings it. You know, it could become

1005
01:08:01,475 --> 01:08:05,875
a very, very political organization. And Trump has made it very clear that he wants to get as many

1006
01:08:05,875 --> 01:08:11,735
seats and he wants people who see it the way he sees it. And he wants lower interest rates. And so,

1007
01:08:12,595 --> 01:08:19,955
you know, I think you got to believe he's going to kind of get them. I don't know how far, how much,

1008
01:08:19,955 --> 01:08:27,515
how quick, but I think he's going to get them. And, and honestly, you know, we kind of, you kind

1009
01:08:27,515 --> 01:08:33,375
of need them. I mean, if you look at all the, the budget deficit, I mean, the, the, the interest

1010
01:08:33,375 --> 01:08:38,615
expense is about a trillion two at the current run rate. I mean, you know, if, if interest rates go

1011
01:08:38,615 --> 01:08:44,235
up, I mean, it gets worse, right? I mean, that's your debt, death spiral. And so, but if you, if

1012
01:08:44,235 --> 01:08:49,395
you could take the average interest rate down to one and a half percent, now that would, you know,

1013
01:08:49,395 --> 01:08:54,895
that would seriously help in terms of balancing the budget right now you know it would also create

1014
01:08:54,895 --> 01:09:00,075
massive growth in m2 which is inflationary so you know pick your poison right but i think

1015
01:09:00,075 --> 01:09:05,155
i think you know this administration i mean it's interesting to me i mean another thing we haven't

1016
01:09:05,155 --> 01:09:08,455
talked about we haven't talked about the supreme court right because the supreme court's going to

1017
01:09:08,455 --> 01:09:12,935
rule on these tariffs i mean and it's it's become very clear i read the journal i read everything

1018
01:09:12,935 --> 01:09:19,375
very carefully it's become very clear to me that you know the court wants to say no these are

1019
01:09:19,375 --> 01:09:24,715
tariffs really should be part of Congress, not the executive branch. But Trump has drawn it so,

1020
01:09:25,015 --> 01:09:27,955
you know, he said, well, how are we going to give the money back? And it's a national security. I

1021
01:09:27,955 --> 01:09:34,455
mean, everything's being framed in terms of existential national security, fighting China,

1022
01:09:34,675 --> 01:09:40,695
winning the overall war, you know, for being, maintaining, quote unquote, our empire, our

1023
01:09:40,695 --> 01:09:48,715
position in the world. And in that, if you use that argument, it's kind of like, what's the

1024
01:09:48,715 --> 01:09:50,815
counter-argument. You can do anything.

1025
01:09:52,975 --> 01:09:54,835
If they

1026
01:09:54,835 --> 01:09:56,755
say, look, this is an existential threat,

1027
01:09:57,395 --> 01:09:58,815
the budget's going to blow up the

1028
01:09:58,815 --> 01:09:59,175
country,

1029
01:10:00,495 --> 01:10:02,675
we've got to take interest rates down, fine.

1030
01:10:03,115 --> 01:10:04,715
Then the bond market blows up

1031
01:10:04,715 --> 01:10:06,675
and they say, well, that's an existential

1032
01:10:06,675 --> 01:10:08,735
threat. We can't pay big money on our bonds

1033
01:10:08,735 --> 01:10:10,095
so we're going to start buying them.

1034
01:10:11,195 --> 01:10:12,335
Yield curve control.

1035
01:10:13,715 --> 01:10:14,795
Danny, that's going to

1036
01:10:14,795 --> 01:10:15,175
happen.

1037
01:10:15,175 --> 01:10:36,935
Okay. I mean, that is going to happen. That has to happen. Mathematically, that literally has to happen. And I know it. I believe it. Most sound money people know it and believe it. But I think the average person doesn't believe it and won't believe it until it actually happens. But when it happens, they'll wake up and they'll believe it and they'll go, holy shit, this guy was right.

1038
01:10:36,935 --> 01:10:43,855
you know it it'll happen and and at that point in time you know money supply is going to explode

1039
01:10:43,855 --> 01:10:48,275
again and and we're we're right back to you know where we are so i mean i laid this all out in the

1040
01:10:48,275 --> 01:10:54,015
book and so it just you know i mean it's it's interesting to me the book's done pretty well

1041
01:10:54,015 --> 01:10:59,375
i sold 50 000 copies but which people tell me that's great i think it sucks why do i think it

1042
01:10:59,375 --> 01:11:03,175
sucks because there are hundreds of millions of people out there and it's kind of like you guys

1043
01:11:03,175 --> 01:11:04,195
you all need to know this.

1044
01:11:04,775 --> 01:11:07,855
And so we really got to get it to go viral

1045
01:11:07,855 --> 01:11:10,555
because if you want to protect yourself from this thing,

1046
01:11:10,595 --> 01:11:13,455
which seems to be a very high mathematical probability,

1047
01:11:14,255 --> 01:11:16,595
the only way to do it is to fully understand it.

1048
01:11:17,335 --> 01:11:18,675
But I think it's coming.

1049
01:11:19,235 --> 01:11:22,415
So I think I would end it on that note

1050
01:11:22,415 --> 01:11:24,795
unless there's someplace else you want to go.

1051
01:11:25,715 --> 01:11:26,855
No, that's perfect.

1052
01:11:27,035 --> 01:11:30,235
I mean, I think 50,000 books is pretty impressive, Larry.

1053
01:11:30,635 --> 01:11:31,535
Well, I appreciate that.

1054
01:11:31,535 --> 01:11:31,895
Thank you.

1055
01:11:33,175 --> 01:11:33,615
Thanks.

1056
01:11:34,275 --> 01:11:36,975
But I always love talking to you.

1057
01:11:37,795 --> 01:11:39,695
Maybe yield curve control is the big print.

1058
01:11:39,895 --> 01:11:40,715
We'll see what happens.

1059
01:11:40,795 --> 01:11:43,855
I think one of the most interesting things about late-stage fiat

1060
01:11:43,855 --> 01:11:46,395
is that these conversations just get more and more interesting.

1061
01:11:47,135 --> 01:11:47,715
Well, they do.

1062
01:11:48,275 --> 01:11:50,915
And something will surprise us, too.

1063
01:11:51,015 --> 01:11:52,775
Something will happen that we couldn't even foresee,

1064
01:11:53,575 --> 01:11:54,675
and we'll get there that way.

1065
01:11:54,755 --> 01:11:56,295
I mean, who could have foreseen COVID, right?

1066
01:11:57,295 --> 01:11:57,655
Exactly.

1067
01:11:57,655 --> 01:12:03,595
The math is, you know, I keep coming back to, you know, the math is what it is.

1068
01:12:03,775 --> 01:12:06,975
And so how are you going to resolve it with this mathematical problem?

1069
01:12:07,135 --> 01:12:09,515
It's just too hard to solve any other way.

1070
01:12:10,735 --> 01:12:10,935
Yeah.

1071
01:12:11,195 --> 01:12:12,235
Well, let's close out.

1072
01:12:12,315 --> 01:12:13,655
We'll sell a few more copies of the book.

1073
01:12:13,755 --> 01:12:15,395
Where do people go and buy the big print?

1074
01:12:15,395 --> 01:12:16,995
Yeah, so I'll just show the cover.

1075
01:12:17,175 --> 01:12:19,215
So the book is available on Amazon.

1076
01:12:19,515 --> 01:12:20,095
It's interesting.

1077
01:12:20,175 --> 01:12:20,995
I can't get a publisher.

1078
01:12:21,115 --> 01:12:24,455
And the reason I can't get is too edgy, which is fine.

1079
01:12:24,935 --> 01:12:25,995
But it's there.

1080
01:12:25,995 --> 01:12:27,355
It's hardcover paperback.

1081
01:12:27,655 --> 01:12:36,315
ebook and then also Walker read an audio book. It's about 12 hours if you listen to it. So,

1082
01:12:36,675 --> 01:12:43,095
yeah. And, you know, I wrote it because I wanted to orange pill the world. I wrote it because I

1083
01:12:43,095 --> 01:12:47,955
want to try and protect the average person. I tried to write it with enough detail to support

1084
01:12:47,955 --> 01:12:54,535
my argument, you know, and the facts, but in a simple enough way that, you know, you didn't need

1085
01:12:54,535 --> 01:12:59,295
an economic background and you shouldn't be intimidated by it. An average person can read it.

1086
01:12:59,935 --> 01:13:03,755
You know, I mean, they could be a nurse or, you know, karma can. I mean, it doesn't matter who you

1087
01:13:03,755 --> 01:13:07,935
are. You know, if you've got a functioning brain, you can read it and go, oh, I get it. Here's how

1088
01:13:07,935 --> 01:13:12,575
they're screwing me and here's what I got to do. So, and they are screwing you and there is something

1089
01:13:12,575 --> 01:13:17,695
you can do. So that's, those are, you know, those are both good things to understand. Right.

1090
01:13:18,215 --> 01:13:22,515
Yeah. It's an awesome book. I love that. It's not like a textbook. A lot of the Bitcoin books end

1091
01:13:22,515 --> 01:13:25,615
being like you're reading a dense textbook. Oh, yeah, but they're great books. I mean,

1092
01:13:25,695 --> 01:13:31,455
honestly, I look at Lynn's book, I look at Sage's book, and I'm jealous. Those are fantastic books.

1093
01:13:31,655 --> 01:13:36,055
And honestly, I borrowed heavily from all these people. I borrowed heavily from Luke Groman. I

1094
01:13:36,055 --> 01:13:41,835
mean, you know, I think what I've done and what people told me I'm decent at, and I'll accept the

1095
01:13:41,835 --> 01:13:45,795
compliment, is that I can take these complicated things and I can put them in words and everyone

1096
01:13:45,795 --> 01:13:51,935
can understand and indense it in a crisp way so that people can, quote unquote, get it. And so

1097
01:13:51,935 --> 01:13:54,655
So I thought, you know, I'm 68 years old.

1098
01:13:54,775 --> 01:13:56,535
I've seen how this country's deteriorated.

1099
01:13:56,635 --> 01:13:57,815
I know how broken it is.

1100
01:13:58,195 --> 01:13:59,335
It really pisses me off.

1101
01:13:59,395 --> 01:14:00,895
I want my kids to live in a better world.

1102
01:14:01,075 --> 01:14:05,755
And so, you know, I thought, I've got to tell the story of how we got here.

1103
01:14:06,075 --> 01:14:07,715
Because it's a fascinating story.

1104
01:14:08,515 --> 01:14:12,595
And once you see it, you know, you can't, as you know, you can't unsee it.

1105
01:14:12,975 --> 01:14:17,335
And then, you know, I challenge anybody to read this book and not become a Bitcoiner.

1106
01:14:17,695 --> 01:14:21,355
I mean, I've had some very, very skeptical friends who've read it and go,

1107
01:14:21,355 --> 01:14:23,135
oh shit, I get it.

1108
01:14:23,675 --> 01:14:25,015
I'm in. There you go.

1109
01:14:25,235 --> 01:14:26,075
There you go, right?

1110
01:14:26,735 --> 01:14:27,595
So thanks, Tad.

1111
01:14:29,595 --> 01:14:31,355
Those other books are great, but it's nice

1112
01:14:31,355 --> 01:14:32,475
to have one that's like a narrative.

1113
01:14:33,075 --> 01:14:35,315
It's a bit easier to read. It's easy to

1114
01:14:35,315 --> 01:14:37,275
understand. But go buy Larry's book.

1115
01:14:37,495 --> 01:14:39,235
Thank you, Larry. Always love talking to you, man.

1116
01:14:39,295 --> 01:14:41,555
I hope I'll see you soon at some event.

1117
01:14:41,735 --> 01:14:43,055
I'm sure I will. We'll get an event, for sure.

1118
01:14:43,355 --> 01:14:45,195
Thanks, man. Take care. All right. Thank you.

1119
01:14:51,355 --> 01:15:21,335
Thank you.