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A lot of the things that you produce just go away, right?

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And that's even discounting just the money, right?

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You're forced to use the US dollar.

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The US dollar is one of the most mighty printing presses ever.

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The sad story of the cypherpunks is that they've built incredible ideas, powerful gold,

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but they're just humans and they can be killed.

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And they have been kidnapped, tortured and killed for decades.

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And that war is ongoing.

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and people will continue to sacrifice their lives in order to make these tools a reality.

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Scarcity is at the root of property.

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And we needed scarcity in cyberspace for money.

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That's why Bitcoin is such a massive achievement.

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We've introduced scarcity in cyberspace without a trusted third party.

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It's never existed before Bitcoin.

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Now the question is, how do we allocate our scarce resources

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such that we will solve our problems in the future?

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And that is what action is all about.

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Max Hillebrand, man.

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We have been trying to make this show for such a long time.

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Well, it happens when it happens.

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We're finally here.

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So I want to start with a question that bugs me.

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Whenever you talk to someone who doesn't really know

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that they should care about privacy,

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they'll always say, it's fine, I'm doing nothing wrong.

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And those are the people that are now using,

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especially with AI, they're giving up so much data

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to companies that it's kind of terrifying.

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And it makes me wonder if the fight for privacy now

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is kind of over for most people.

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If you don't do anything about it, it really is.

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The tools of surveillance have gotten so good,

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like so scarily good,

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that if you don't take extra precautions,

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you have very little secrets left.

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And we all want to have some secrets.

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But the cool thing is that for the last 30, 40 years or something,

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the cypherpunks have really worked hard

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to build tools that make privacy impossible.

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And so if you use modern technologies and you learn a little bit on how to use them and just choose the right applications in your tech stack, basically, you can have serious levels of privacy.

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You can have very well-protected communications, anonymous communications, and secure sound money that all rely on privacy as a whole.

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But it's absolutely achievable.

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You just got to know how.

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Yeah, it's funny though, because like the tools,

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like if you use Signal as an example,

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like I have basically every single person on Signal now.

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I've managed to get even like my elderly family onto it

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because I stole this from Odell,

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but it's the only place to get baby pictures.

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And so like, and that tool is amazing.

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It's really easy to use.

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It looks like any other like communication app.

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So the tools have got really good.

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So they're usable.

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But at the same time,

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everyone moves towards like using the frontier AI models

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and are probably like putting pictures

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they shouldn't be putting up in there

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of like their family, their kids,

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they're asking financial information about,

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like they're doing everything

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that they shouldn't be doing

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in terms of protecting your actual privacy.

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Like, so while, I guess the point is,

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while the apps are getting better, more usable,

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at the same time,

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I feel like it's accelerating

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on the data collection side even faster.

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And I don't know how you pull someone

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who's like partly in that world

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where they are giving up way too much information.

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How do you pull them out?

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What can they come out with?

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and how do they get into a world that they are retaining their information?

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The problem is that it's always easier to build technology

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that doesn't protect the privacy of users.

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Because to really protect users is an extra effort.

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And that requires technological protocol

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and just user experience, design and skills that take longer to build.

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And so we see that now with the frontier models.

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They don't care about your privacy.

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They want to see how you're using the software

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so that they can improve it further on.

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Is that part true?

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Is it so they can improve it

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or have they got other incentives?

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I mean, that's one of the reasons.

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They need a whole bunch of text

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in order to make the system better.

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And that goes for anything.

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If you know how the users are using the software,

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when they get frustrated,

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when it works well for them,

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then you can make your app better.

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Just listening to users is a very powerful thing

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to make tools work better.

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The problem is what if the users don't want you to listen?

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But so like that makes like, obviously they are doing that.

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They're using it to train new models.

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They're using it to make the user interface better, all that stuff.

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But what else are they doing that's the scary part?

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Yes, that is the really scary part.

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And it basically comes down to censorship.

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If you're asking stuff that they don't want you to ask about,

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then very quickly they will suspend your account.

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So they're checking for policies that you uphold the terms

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and conditions and so on.

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And of course, they could collaborate with governments

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to hand over this information.

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I'm sure they do to some extent.

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Every big tech firm collaborates with the state.

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And that's a problem.

113
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But the cool thing is we already now today

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have AI solutions that are reasonably private.

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And really good.

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Like Maple, I use it all the time.

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Exactly.

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Very, very good.

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It's probably, I don't know, 10, 20% behind a frontier model.

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but it's like, it's definitely good enough.

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And like, I use both.

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So like, to be honest, I care about privacy

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and I try and do everything I can to sort of maximize that.

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But there are times when I mess up

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and like sometimes there's times

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where I'll type something into like a frontier model

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and be like, you are an idiot.

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Like, believe that.

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And there's other times when I've done it

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and, you know, enter that information

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and afterwards I've been like, fuck.

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But you're right.

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Like the tools are really, really good.

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I think Maple's an incredible product.

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I use it a lot.

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it's just, it's hard to make people care, which is, I guess, why you wrote this book.

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Yes.

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And the cool thing about this book is it's not just like a privacy handbook. It's like

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privacy and economics.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And I know you're like the deeply rooted Austrian school. Like, why does privacy matter in economics?

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It matters for a whole bunch of reasons. And like the main reason that I wrote this book

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is because the economists don't really understand the cypherpunks. Right. If you look back at

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mises.org 2012 2013 every article about bitcoin was like no this isn't a great idea like it can't

145
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work in the long run and what was it what was the reasoning when they said that because digital goods

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are not scarce and money needs to be scarce right and they didn't really realize that bitcoin solved

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the double spending problem which introduces scarcity in cyberspace the the core idea of

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money is that if I give you money, then I no longer have it. And that's not how PDF documents

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or music files work. If I give you the copy, I still have the original. So the scarcity aspect

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isn't there in cyberspace. That's what makes cyberspace so beautiful. But it's very critical

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for money that we have that. And then the other aspect was that, oh, well, the government is just

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going to shut it down. And well, the cypherpunks realized that we don't care. We just keep building,

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we keep using, we will resist the state.

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And so ultimately, I think those two main reasons,

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a kind of a lack of computer science understanding

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and then an assumption that the resistance against the state

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is not possible in the digital realm

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was why they didn't get it.

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And so it took quite a long time

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before more Austrian economists really started to hone down

161
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and be like, no, this is actually useful.

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Like Conrad Graf was very important in that.

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Stefan Kinsella as well.

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00:07:41,380 --> 00:07:49,040
But that took very, very long, way too long than it should be because Bitcoin is obviously Austrian economics embodied.

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Embodied, yeah.

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Exactly.

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So that is the first side of why this book matters so much to me at least.

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And then the other side is that the cypherpunks don't understand the economics of it.

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Like there were so many cypherpunk projects that failed in ways that if they would have understand praxeology better, they would have designed the system in a different way.

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and that's in part because it's difficult to design the system properly

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so that it survives censorship and shutdown

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and so this book is kind of here to get my two friend groups to meet

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and be like you should really talk to each other

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because both of you are trying to solve the similar set of problems

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but you're going about it in very different ways

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and both of these ways are extremely valuable

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and if we put them together I think we have a really good shot

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at making the world a much freer place.

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awesome um i think the best place for us to like dive into the book is the thing that you talk about

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right at the start i think we were kind of talking about a little bit before which is

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a lot of people when you try and talk to them about privacy will say i've got nothing to hide

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yeah like why do you think that is sort of one of the most dangerous sentences that

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is uttered today it's i mean if you have nothing to hide you're just a very boring person

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like we we all have things that we don't want everyone to know and i think it's a definitional

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mistake people think that privacy is about full anonymity that nobody knows you that nobody knows

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what you're doing and so on and and that's a part of privacy but privacy actually defined and again

187
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that's where the cypherpunks come in eric hughes specifically privacy is the ability to selectively

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reveal yourself to the world.

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Privacy is a choice, a choice freely made on what to say to whom and when.

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And if that's the proper framing of privacy, then it's a synonym for freedom.

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If you cannot choose what to say to whom, if someone can force you to reveal an information

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that you don't want to tell him, then that's not freedom.

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That's slavery.

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And if that's the fundamental starting point, then you start to realize it's just what humans

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do.

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We first think and then we speak.

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And we think about the stuff that we want to say.

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And we don't say many things for many reasons.

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For one, because it might be rude to say the first thing that comes to your mind.

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00:10:08,220 --> 00:10:11,280
And then we catch ourselves, let's phrase that a little bit more diplomatic.

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00:10:12,220 --> 00:10:14,060
Like that's one of the reasons.

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00:10:14,060 --> 00:10:17,940
But it also then leads to just free action itself.

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And so the ultimate conclusion of the economic side of the book is that if we don't have privacy,

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If there is someone else who can surveil you and watches your actions and you cannot escape, then this means that you will not buy the goods that you would actually want to have.

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And that means that prices start to be manipulated.

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And it's a little bit similar to what inflation does to the market economy, that we buy the stuff that we don't actually want because we're kind of tricked into it because inflation.

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And we build the stuff that we don't really need as well.

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00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:56,000
And so this malinvestment and overconsumption leads to a boom and bust cycle, ultimately,

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00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:01,940
where we build the things that we don't really want and we waste our time, capital and precious effort

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00:11:01,940 --> 00:11:07,340
on things that are not really the best interest that we would like to do.

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00:11:07,780 --> 00:11:09,200
So ultimately, it makes us poorer.

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00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,500
If we don't have privacy, if there's surveillance everywhere, then we're all worse off.

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The thing that keeps me up at night is the idea of a critical error in my Bitcoin cold storage.

214
00:11:18,380 --> 00:11:20,380
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215
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218
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220
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221
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267
00:13:44,392 --> 00:13:51,952
So this is like, I think that the increase in surveillance is like a slow creep towards like

268
00:13:51,952 --> 00:13:55,673
the world we live in today. Like the question I would have is if you went back a hundred years,

269
00:13:55,673 --> 00:14:00,913
I can't imagine anyone saying I've got nothing to hide. Like, is this a psyop? Where's it come

270
00:14:00,913 --> 00:14:05,372
from? This idea that, that people are okay with surveillance because they don't think they need

271
00:14:05,372 --> 00:14:11,072
to hide anything. Yeah. I think it's, it's, it's a psyop basically. Like people have been trained

272
00:14:11,072 --> 00:14:18,492
to not to use the tools of defense that they ought to, right? There's a great paper on the

273
00:14:18,492 --> 00:14:22,592
discourse of voluntary servitude. Because if you look throughout the history of mankind,

274
00:14:23,012 --> 00:14:29,452
one thing that was always the case is that there were, the number of slaves was way larger than

275
00:14:29,452 --> 00:14:35,212
the number of slave masters. And if the oppressed people would realize that they're oppressed

276
00:14:35,212 --> 00:14:40,212
and they would start doing something about it, the slave masters have no chance, right?

277
00:14:40,433 --> 00:14:45,612
Simply because they're outnumbered. And so the trick of the government is to make you think that

278
00:14:45,612 --> 00:14:51,252
you're free when actually you're not. And just exactly that linguistic trap of I have nothing

279
00:14:51,252 --> 00:14:58,712
to hide is similar to who's going to build the roads. It's like a linguistic trap to make you

280
00:14:58,712 --> 00:15:05,992
think that you can't protect yourself and someone else will protect yourself and that someone else

281
00:15:05,992 --> 00:15:09,533
has your best interest at heart. But if you look closer, that's just not the case.

282
00:15:09,913 --> 00:15:14,132
And it's one of those things that the people who might say that will also be self-centering because

283
00:15:14,132 --> 00:15:18,132
they clearly don't feel completely free in what they can do. And like you said before,

284
00:15:18,132 --> 00:15:23,752
there are times when self-centering is a good thing. I can choose to not say the first thing

285
00:15:23,752 --> 00:15:28,592
that comes into my head when I'm talking to you. But when does it become a bad thing? When

286
00:15:28,592 --> 00:15:33,972
is self-centership a huge issue? When the consequences of you speaking the truth

287
00:15:33,972 --> 00:15:41,712
are worse to you individually than actually speaking properly. So we see this a lot in

288
00:15:42,472 --> 00:15:43,952
I mean, that's here Oslo Freedom Forum, right?

289
00:15:43,992 --> 00:15:44,813
We have this often.

290
00:15:46,112 --> 00:15:49,313
Where during the communist occupation of Czechoslovakia, for example,

291
00:15:49,433 --> 00:15:52,192
Vaclav Havel and Vaclav Bender both were writing about this,

292
00:15:52,272 --> 00:15:57,053
where everyone had in his storefront, you know, the butcher, the carpenter,

293
00:15:57,252 --> 00:15:59,793
had a sign in the window of workers of the world unite.

294
00:16:00,512 --> 00:16:01,612
It was an empty slogan.

295
00:16:02,192 --> 00:16:03,392
Nobody believed it.

296
00:16:03,813 --> 00:16:05,492
But everyone had to do it.

297
00:16:05,832 --> 00:16:08,592
And so you start living the lie.

298
00:16:08,592 --> 00:16:12,053
and that is very, very depressing.

299
00:16:12,592 --> 00:16:14,472
But the problem is if you don't do it,

300
00:16:14,553 --> 00:16:16,272
you go to the Gulag, right?

301
00:16:16,452 --> 00:16:18,433
If you're not a member of the Communist Party,

302
00:16:18,772 --> 00:16:21,232
your children will not go to school, right?

303
00:16:21,252 --> 00:16:22,592
Your children will not get a job

304
00:16:22,592 --> 00:16:25,592
and your cousin will get fired as well, right?

305
00:16:25,592 --> 00:16:29,112
So the cost of speaking the truth

306
00:16:29,112 --> 00:16:34,173
would be way higher than just going along with the lie.

307
00:16:34,492 --> 00:16:37,033
And then we just all lie to each other constantly.

308
00:16:37,033 --> 00:16:39,413
and that's a dreadful experience.

309
00:16:39,913 --> 00:16:41,272
So if you talk like today,

310
00:16:41,752 --> 00:16:44,192
the country probably that values freedom

311
00:16:44,192 --> 00:16:45,793
at least outwardly the most

312
00:16:45,793 --> 00:16:47,492
is probably America, would you say?

313
00:16:47,572 --> 00:16:48,612
Like that's like their slogan,

314
00:16:48,852 --> 00:16:50,092
that everything they do is about freedom.

315
00:16:50,392 --> 00:16:51,612
Do you think the people living there

316
00:16:51,612 --> 00:16:53,033
who are being surveilled

317
00:16:53,033 --> 00:16:54,913
are like giving up data

318
00:16:54,913 --> 00:16:56,533
to all the big tech companies in Silicon Valley?

319
00:16:56,832 --> 00:16:58,152
Do you think they're actually free

320
00:16:58,152 --> 00:16:59,092
or do you think they're being oppressed

321
00:16:59,092 --> 00:16:59,793
without knowing it?

322
00:17:00,212 --> 00:17:01,832
They're being oppressed without knowing it.

323
00:17:02,212 --> 00:17:02,752
I mean, to be fair,

324
00:17:02,852 --> 00:17:04,453
like freedom is a very rare

325
00:17:04,453 --> 00:17:05,372
and very precious thing

326
00:17:05,372 --> 00:17:11,212
and we don't have much of it if you actually look at it right like uh if you need a license to cut

327
00:17:11,212 --> 00:17:17,773
someone else's hair like crazy that's not freedom yeah you know if like 50 of your paycheck just

328
00:17:17,773 --> 00:17:22,732
disappears before it even hits your bank account like that's not free either you know like back in

329
00:17:22,732 --> 00:17:27,813
the days like with the balls and shackles slavery like the slaves could keep a whole bunch of the

330
00:17:27,813 --> 00:17:32,832
things that they produce just to sustain themselves right now okay they like a lot of the things that

331
00:17:32,832 --> 00:17:38,232
you produce just go away right and that's even discounting just the money right you're forced

332
00:17:38,232 --> 00:17:43,932
to use the us dollar yeah the us dollar is one of the most mighty printing presses ever right and

333
00:17:43,932 --> 00:17:48,192
and and so no there's a whole bunch of theft happening in america and a whole bunch of

334
00:17:48,192 --> 00:17:54,793
censorship like all of the big tech platforms you know youtube google facebook all of these

335
00:17:54,793 --> 00:18:02,092
they're all american and they're they're definitely not free speech platforms right there is so much

336
00:18:02,092 --> 00:18:07,732
content that gets deleted there. There's so much shadow banning happening where the content might

337
00:18:07,732 --> 00:18:12,872
be out there, but they will change the algorithm so that nobody will see it. That's highly

338
00:18:12,872 --> 00:18:19,092
manipulative. So we're unfortunately quite far away from an actual free market where choices are

339
00:18:19,092 --> 00:18:23,112
made freely by those who want to engage with it. And the hard thing with this is like, I know that

340
00:18:23,112 --> 00:18:29,033
you've been living on Bitcoin for a long time. I'm sure your privacy practices are in the top 0.1%.

341
00:18:29,033 --> 00:18:31,712
but still, if you walk down the street here in Oslo,

342
00:18:31,773 --> 00:18:33,193
there's going to be security cameras watching you.

343
00:18:33,232 --> 00:18:34,533
Like you're still being surveilled.

344
00:18:35,092 --> 00:18:36,033
Like, are you free?

345
00:18:37,352 --> 00:18:42,432
No, like not to the extent that I would like to, right?

346
00:18:42,533 --> 00:18:44,592
There is a lot of things that I have to do

347
00:18:44,592 --> 00:18:46,412
that I don't want to, ultimately.

348
00:18:47,672 --> 00:18:51,293
A thinker from the 1970s, an American thinker

349
00:18:51,293 --> 00:18:52,953
called Rayo, an anonymous guy.

350
00:18:53,372 --> 00:18:55,492
He wrote a book on VONU,

351
00:18:55,912 --> 00:18:58,112
which means voluntary, not vulnerable.

352
00:18:58,112 --> 00:19:01,273
and he came up with a fascinating metric

353
00:19:01,273 --> 00:19:04,652
to answer exactly that question of how free are you?

354
00:19:04,952 --> 00:19:06,712
Because that's actually a difficult question to answer.

355
00:19:07,452 --> 00:19:10,553
And so his idea is the mean time to harassment.

356
00:19:11,232 --> 00:19:12,132
Or in other words,

357
00:19:12,452 --> 00:19:14,172
when was the last time that you were stolen from?

358
00:19:15,432 --> 00:19:17,952
That's a really useful metric.

359
00:19:18,672 --> 00:19:21,072
And the goal for freedom lovers

360
00:19:21,072 --> 00:19:22,212
is to increase that metric.

361
00:19:22,712 --> 00:19:24,592
Increase the time in between

362
00:19:24,592 --> 00:19:26,452
where you were physically harassed,

363
00:19:26,732 --> 00:19:27,553
stolen from,

364
00:19:27,553 --> 00:19:34,152
where you had to ask for permission. And he realized that that number is extremely low,

365
00:19:34,752 --> 00:19:38,632
extremely low for most people. Can you talk about the things that you would consider being stolen

366
00:19:38,632 --> 00:19:45,293
from? So theft is broadly defined as like seven different categories. There's obviously murder,

367
00:19:45,533 --> 00:19:50,252
right? That's the bad one, right? You steal someone's life. Then you have theft of physical

368
00:19:50,252 --> 00:19:56,912
property, right? You have coercion, which is the threat of violence so that you change your actions.

369
00:19:56,912 --> 00:19:58,132
So taxes would fit into that.

370
00:19:58,293 --> 00:19:58,732
Absolutely.

371
00:19:58,872 --> 00:19:59,572
Taxes are theft.

372
00:20:00,533 --> 00:20:04,832
Taxes are both the coercion that if you don't pay them, you'll go to prison.

373
00:20:04,972 --> 00:20:07,972
And then the actual taking of your property, your money, and so on.

374
00:20:08,752 --> 00:20:13,132
Then you have contract violations, for example.

375
00:20:13,632 --> 00:20:17,372
So this is when you've agreed to do something and then you don't do that.

376
00:20:17,492 --> 00:20:19,313
That's the theft of the counterparty.

377
00:20:20,013 --> 00:20:21,492
You have whenever you have to ask for permission.

378
00:20:21,872 --> 00:20:23,152
The hairdresser, for example.

379
00:20:23,152 --> 00:20:30,132
He's being stolen from in applying his own body and tools in a way that he sees fit by someone who says, no, you need a license for that.

380
00:20:31,193 --> 00:20:34,072
Rape, of course, that's theft of your sexual autonomy.

381
00:20:34,852 --> 00:20:40,872
Trespassing, that's theft of your dwelling place and your freedom to live peacefully in your own home.

382
00:20:41,732 --> 00:20:44,112
And lying, ultimately.

383
00:20:44,912 --> 00:20:46,773
Closely tied especially with contracts.

384
00:20:47,252 --> 00:20:48,293
Fraud, basically.

385
00:20:48,752 --> 00:20:52,592
Theft usually of money that was given in exchange for the contract that was lied upon.

386
00:20:52,592 --> 00:20:56,592
So with that definition, I was stolen from 30 minutes ago.

387
00:20:56,832 --> 00:20:57,152
Exactly.

388
00:20:57,592 --> 00:20:57,793
Yes.

389
00:20:58,152 --> 00:20:59,313
You were stolen from last time.

390
00:20:59,313 --> 00:20:59,572
I went to buy a sandwich.

391
00:20:59,852 --> 00:21:00,632
You bought a sandwich.

392
00:21:00,773 --> 00:21:00,892
Yeah.

393
00:21:00,912 --> 00:21:01,533
And you paid like what?

394
00:21:01,592 --> 00:21:02,793
20% value added tax?

395
00:21:02,852 --> 00:21:02,972
Yeah.

396
00:21:03,332 --> 00:21:03,472
Right.

397
00:21:04,533 --> 00:21:05,972
Last time you drove a car.

398
00:21:06,632 --> 00:21:08,252
You needed to have a license.

399
00:21:08,513 --> 00:21:10,553
You needed to have a registered car, et cetera.

400
00:21:12,072 --> 00:21:13,352
There's a lot of theft happening.

401
00:21:13,572 --> 00:21:17,872
If you really honestly define it and look at it, it's scary.

402
00:21:17,872 --> 00:21:22,793
there'll be people listening to this that aren't like familiar with the austrian sort of framework

403
00:21:22,793 --> 00:21:28,313
and will think me paying tax is not theft what would you say to that well try not paying it

404
00:21:28,313 --> 00:21:37,553
like there's countless people kidnapped and in jail like right now as we speak uh because

405
00:21:37,553 --> 00:21:42,952
they made a mistake filing it or they just for ethical reasons choose not to to support that

406
00:21:42,952 --> 00:21:50,412
that system and you know religious reasons etc and they're tortured like uh imprisonment is

407
00:21:50,412 --> 00:21:57,793
an insane torture like they they asked did a study on on lots of um imprisoned people of like

408
00:21:57,793 --> 00:22:03,992
would would you prefer physical torture if you could get out of here most of them said yes

409
00:22:03,992 --> 00:22:11,533
right so uh prisons are are horrendous institutions uh and they they get applied for

410
00:22:11,533 --> 00:22:16,873
peaceful people who've done nothing wrong, right? Who simply said no to a thief that came with a

411
00:22:16,873 --> 00:22:23,432
gun. It's, do you think that there's any way out of this system that we live in for everyone? Or

412
00:22:23,432 --> 00:22:26,912
do you think this is going to be a thing where you have a small group of people that manage to

413
00:22:26,912 --> 00:22:34,513
live outside of this system? I think the option to live freer or to choose towards a freer world

414
00:22:34,513 --> 00:22:41,112
is there for everyone. It doesn't come for free, right? There are costs there and they can be

415
00:22:41,112 --> 00:22:48,112
quite substantial. And so many people will, even those who understand it might not want to pursue

416
00:22:48,112 --> 00:22:52,912
this path. And then just countless people don't understand it. I mean, I would fall into that

417
00:22:52,912 --> 00:22:58,393
category. Like I'm not going to go and not pay my taxes. Like that's not something that I'm

418
00:22:58,393 --> 00:23:02,832
willing to risk. Like I have a family. Like there are things that will come above that for me.

419
00:23:03,492 --> 00:23:08,912
And that's why I see it as such a hard battle. Yeah. And that's, I think, where the cypherpunks

420
00:23:08,912 --> 00:23:10,712
come in with their amazing strategy

421
00:23:10,712 --> 00:23:13,652
of if we increase the cost of attack,

422
00:23:14,132 --> 00:23:16,332
if we make it more difficult for the thief to steal,

423
00:23:16,752 --> 00:23:18,273
if it's more expensive for him,

424
00:23:18,793 --> 00:23:20,892
then he will no longer be profitable.

425
00:23:21,572 --> 00:23:23,793
Because if it takes you 10 Bitcoin

426
00:23:23,793 --> 00:23:27,553
to buy the people and the machines and so on

427
00:23:27,553 --> 00:23:29,572
and the guns to steal one Bitcoin,

428
00:23:30,172 --> 00:23:32,412
you've just decreased your wealth by nine Bitcoin.

429
00:23:32,832 --> 00:23:34,313
So that's stupid.

430
00:23:34,832 --> 00:23:36,293
And there's a praxeology to violence

431
00:23:36,293 --> 00:23:38,672
where thieves are entrepreneurs too.

432
00:23:38,912 --> 00:23:41,553
And if they're not profitable, they will stop.

433
00:23:42,013 --> 00:23:45,612
And then simultaneously, if we decrease the cost of defense,

434
00:23:46,132 --> 00:23:48,513
then more and more people will choose to protect themselves

435
00:23:48,513 --> 00:23:52,332
simply because the means are available at an affordable rate.

436
00:23:52,793 --> 00:23:55,252
Do you think this is the reason that Austrian economics

437
00:23:55,252 --> 00:23:56,752
isn't sort of widely taught anywhere?

438
00:23:56,912 --> 00:23:58,412
It's kind of a niche school of economics

439
00:23:58,412 --> 00:24:00,672
because it's seen as dangerous by these people.

440
00:24:01,273 --> 00:24:03,652
Yeah, and especially by the thieves.

441
00:24:03,992 --> 00:24:08,172
The thieves don't like a well-educated slave forever.

442
00:24:08,172 --> 00:24:14,172
There was a very severe penalty in the Roman Empire when you taught your slave how to read.

443
00:24:15,793 --> 00:24:20,013
Because they would realize that it is an unjust system or they would be closer to realizing that.

444
00:24:20,513 --> 00:24:26,852
So yeah, education has always been, or a lot of education has been controlled by the slave masters.

445
00:24:27,172 --> 00:24:30,313
And they clearly do not want their slaves to revolt.

446
00:24:30,313 --> 00:24:39,652
And that's why the grand heroes of Austrian economic thought had substantial difficulties to actually get teaching positions even at universities.

447
00:24:40,492 --> 00:24:45,372
Like Murray Rothbard was teaching at a New York university and he was paid almost nothing.

448
00:24:45,832 --> 00:24:49,732
Even though he's like one of the greatest economic minds that ever lived.

449
00:24:50,452 --> 00:24:54,612
And then later he finally got a paid job at the Las Vegas University.

450
00:24:55,192 --> 00:24:59,932
But it was like a clergy level, like very, very, very, very low.

451
00:25:00,313 --> 00:25:05,932
And Ludwig von Mises had a great term for this back in the Austrian-Hungarian Empire.

452
00:25:06,793 --> 00:25:18,172
The intellectual, so the mainstream economists at the universities, he called them the intellectual bodyguards of the House of Hohenzollern, which were like the kings back then, right?

453
00:25:18,172 --> 00:25:28,932
So they have an intellectual bodyguard that trick people into thinking that being ruled by a master is correct and useful and you should be thankful for it.

454
00:25:28,932 --> 00:25:31,513
And we absolutely see this today.

455
00:25:31,752 --> 00:25:33,872
I mean, America is a great example of this.

456
00:25:34,612 --> 00:25:39,053
People stay in the American school system until they're like, what, 25?

457
00:25:39,472 --> 00:25:41,872
And in debt for multi-million dollars.

458
00:25:42,513 --> 00:25:49,053
And at the end, they've had a proper indoctrination of loving the state, ultimately.

459
00:25:49,592 --> 00:25:50,813
And we see this everywhere.

460
00:25:51,432 --> 00:25:55,572
The school system that we are currently using goes back to the Prussians.

461
00:25:55,572 --> 00:25:59,572
because the Prussians lost the war against Napoleon

462
00:25:59,572 --> 00:26:02,712
and realized that they need more obedient soldiers.

463
00:26:03,533 --> 00:26:05,972
So a psychology professor, I forgot his name,

464
00:26:06,892 --> 00:26:09,612
researched on how can we make more obedient soldiers

465
00:26:09,612 --> 00:26:14,332
that will follow orders and just blindly march into their death

466
00:26:14,332 --> 00:26:16,412
without retreating and deserting.

467
00:26:17,072 --> 00:26:20,033
So they came up with the outcome-based education system,

468
00:26:20,612 --> 00:26:24,033
which is basically that, and we have this exact same system right now,

469
00:26:24,033 --> 00:26:27,572
You sit in a classroom, everyone faces the teacher, right?

470
00:26:27,892 --> 00:26:30,013
You have to sit down when you're told to sit down.

471
00:26:30,752 --> 00:26:33,412
The teacher knows the answer, right?

472
00:26:33,832 --> 00:26:37,092
And you are here to get the wisdom from the teacher

473
00:26:37,092 --> 00:26:40,332
and your success is measured by you repeating

474
00:26:40,332 --> 00:26:43,553
the truth of the teacher back correctly.

475
00:26:44,132 --> 00:26:47,192
And it's not based on the trivium process

476
00:26:47,192 --> 00:26:50,612
of how to actually achieve understanding and wisdom.

477
00:26:50,892 --> 00:26:51,672
It's about recollection.

478
00:26:51,852 --> 00:27:03,425
It about recollection right So you not there to think you there to memorize and to repeat back what you were told And that is I think the root cause of a lot of the

479
00:27:03,425 --> 00:27:07,665
suffering in this world. I mean, it's, it's what started the first war and the second world war and,

480
00:27:07,665 --> 00:27:13,265
and all the American wars that came after that are, I think heavily rooted in the education

481
00:27:13,265 --> 00:27:17,425
system and of course the money system, right? But that, those are big problems.

482
00:27:17,425 --> 00:27:25,685
So when you take the biggest minds in Austrian economics, I've read a few books now, a lot of them from your recommendation.

483
00:27:26,365 --> 00:27:29,545
But obviously, you know this group of techs way better than I do.

484
00:27:29,705 --> 00:27:31,085
Do they ever talk about privacy?

485
00:27:32,245 --> 00:27:35,465
Well, it's kind of in the word private property, interestingly.

486
00:27:36,345 --> 00:27:43,125
So it's kind of at the very root of it, but they've never so clearly articulated it.

487
00:27:43,125 --> 00:27:48,545
I think they've underappreciated the power of what privacy really is.

488
00:27:49,925 --> 00:27:53,245
There is a lot of this on involuntary disclosure.

489
00:27:53,665 --> 00:27:57,405
Like the gist of Austrian economics is like actions should be voluntary.

490
00:27:58,445 --> 00:28:03,605
And that defined by Hughes to choose what to reveal to whom

491
00:28:03,605 --> 00:28:05,885
is based on voluntary revelation as well.

492
00:28:06,945 --> 00:28:10,045
There was then a lot of thoughts on, for example,

493
00:28:10,425 --> 00:28:12,465
can we have like non-disclosure agreements?

494
00:28:13,025 --> 00:28:15,105
Can you and I sign a contract that says,

495
00:28:15,205 --> 00:28:17,165
hey, I will tell you a secret and I will pay you,

496
00:28:17,465 --> 00:28:20,485
but under the condition that you don't reveal the secret to someone else?

497
00:28:21,245 --> 00:28:23,705
If that's an opt-in contract for both of you, that seems okay to me.

498
00:28:23,825 --> 00:28:24,145
Exactly.

499
00:28:24,845 --> 00:28:27,705
So this was one of the conclusions that the Austrians reached.

500
00:28:28,245 --> 00:28:31,785
But they never really were that much technologists.

501
00:28:32,585 --> 00:28:35,005
Like Murray Rothbard only typed on a typewriter.

502
00:28:35,245 --> 00:28:35,385
Yeah.

503
00:28:35,625 --> 00:28:36,345
Is that why?

504
00:28:36,445 --> 00:28:37,905
Is it the world that they were writing these in

505
00:28:37,905 --> 00:28:39,365
is very different to the world we live in today?

506
00:28:40,285 --> 00:28:41,365
Yes, ultimately.

507
00:28:41,365 --> 00:28:47,765
and it wasn't just their main passion, I would guess.

508
00:28:48,265 --> 00:28:52,505
They were really into how can we design better contracting schemes,

509
00:28:52,765 --> 00:28:56,885
how could we design a government that is less predatory and so on.

510
00:28:58,305 --> 00:29:02,705
But one of the common philosophicals of Austrian economics is like,

511
00:29:02,765 --> 00:29:03,785
oh, the market will fix it.

512
00:29:04,905 --> 00:29:06,685
It's just that we are the market.

513
00:29:07,045 --> 00:29:08,865
We actually have to fix it.

514
00:29:08,865 --> 00:29:15,105
and yeah for for this i just value the cypherpunks because they're like no okay we don't have to

515
00:29:15,105 --> 00:29:20,605
petition for the government like we have to write the code and we have to deploy it right ron paul

516
00:29:20,605 --> 00:29:25,565
one of the amazing austrian economist influencers he's a politician right he has been lobbying to

517
00:29:25,565 --> 00:29:31,505
end the fed for like i don't know 50 years or something and apparently not succeeded it's still

518
00:29:31,505 --> 00:29:37,445
there they're still printing like more than ever and i guess it never really came to their mind to

519
00:29:37,445 --> 00:29:39,745
just build an alternative system.

520
00:29:40,085 --> 00:29:43,725
They're very much like advocating for the gold standard, but like for the government

521
00:29:43,725 --> 00:29:44,925
to adopt the gold standard.

522
00:29:45,325 --> 00:29:48,745
And sure, like for individuals to save in gold, et cetera, that too.

523
00:29:48,885 --> 00:29:53,725
But to really radically create a new monetary system that cannot be stopped the same way

524
00:29:53,725 --> 00:29:58,365
that gold could be stopped, just wasn't really that much there.

525
00:29:59,225 --> 00:30:02,465
I mean, there's people also doing that in Bitcoin, trying to make nation states adopt

526
00:30:02,465 --> 00:30:02,885
Bitcoin.

527
00:30:03,805 --> 00:30:05,285
What do you feel about that?

528
00:30:05,385 --> 00:30:06,205
How do you feel about that?

529
00:30:06,205 --> 00:30:10,485
Well, I don't like thieves to have tech that is unstoppable.

530
00:30:11,645 --> 00:30:13,525
So I'm not the biggest fan of it.

531
00:30:13,745 --> 00:30:17,825
I much more care about individuals being able to protect themselves.

532
00:30:19,045 --> 00:30:21,225
It's inevitable that thieves will use Bitcoin.

533
00:30:21,505 --> 00:30:23,605
They were probably one of the early adopters as well.

534
00:30:24,045 --> 00:30:27,145
Just because thieves are at the edges of society

535
00:30:27,145 --> 00:30:30,005
and they need the best technologies to stay ahead of the game.

536
00:30:30,925 --> 00:30:34,725
So to some extent, unfortunately, bad people will use Bitcoin.

537
00:30:34,725 --> 00:30:36,125
And that includes the state.

538
00:30:37,085 --> 00:30:38,985
There's not much that we can do about that.

539
00:30:39,265 --> 00:30:42,185
That's why Bitcoin is a good, fair, neutral money.

540
00:30:42,745 --> 00:30:44,665
And that's why it will succeed in the long run.

541
00:30:45,265 --> 00:30:49,445
So where does lack of privacy in this sort of Keynesian world that we live in today,

542
00:30:49,525 --> 00:30:51,445
where does that sort of distort the market?

543
00:30:51,525 --> 00:30:52,465
Where does it break things?

544
00:30:52,845 --> 00:30:56,645
Like you're not buying things that you would have bought otherwise, right?

545
00:30:56,945 --> 00:30:57,425
Ultimately.

546
00:30:58,065 --> 00:31:00,885
So, you know, that might be books, right?

547
00:31:00,885 --> 00:31:05,725
There are some books that you probably don't want to buy on Amazon with your name.

548
00:31:06,205 --> 00:31:09,105
Because that might lead to...

549
00:31:09,105 --> 00:31:09,465
You get flagged.

550
00:31:09,565 --> 00:31:11,005
You will get flagged, exactly.

551
00:31:13,005 --> 00:31:16,025
During COVID, people were buying Ivermectin, for example.

552
00:31:16,645 --> 00:31:18,445
If you bought that on a bank account,

553
00:31:18,765 --> 00:31:21,965
then they probably knew about it and they would come after you.

554
00:31:22,745 --> 00:31:27,865
So a lot of these goods were the powers to be,

555
00:31:28,565 --> 00:31:31,685
do you harm if they found out that you have them,

556
00:31:32,145 --> 00:31:33,025
you just don't buy them.

557
00:31:33,025 --> 00:31:36,225
And this means we decrease the demand for these goods.

558
00:31:37,205 --> 00:31:39,385
And that means that there will be less produced.

559
00:31:39,945 --> 00:31:43,385
Even though people actually want to have this for numerous different reasons,

560
00:31:43,945 --> 00:31:48,465
they would not be able or not really willing to buy it at that rate.

561
00:31:48,845 --> 00:31:54,185
And then the entrepreneurs who have correctly anticipated the demand of these goods

562
00:31:54,185 --> 00:31:55,505
would make less profit.

563
00:31:55,765 --> 00:31:59,665
Because even though there is actual demand, it's not executed upon

564
00:31:59,665 --> 00:32:02,225
because the cost is too high.

565
00:32:02,225 --> 00:32:17,505
And so these entrepreneurs who have successfully predicted what humans will want in the future, who should be rewarded for that incredibly difficult task that they've achieved, they now get punished by their business having less revenue and so on.

566
00:32:17,825 --> 00:32:29,205
Well, simultaneously, the businesses that are working on the things that the state forces you to do or at least heavily encourages you to do, they will get more and more business.

567
00:32:29,365 --> 00:32:30,605
They get outsized reward.

568
00:32:31,305 --> 00:32:31,705
Exactly.

569
00:32:31,905 --> 00:32:36,585
Like, you know, the painters of sign of Workers of the World Unite, they got a whole bunch

570
00:32:36,585 --> 00:32:37,125
of business.

571
00:32:37,305 --> 00:32:41,405
Not because people actually wanted to have the sign, but just because if they didn't,

572
00:32:41,565 --> 00:32:42,545
they would get into trouble.

573
00:32:42,785 --> 00:32:43,965
And so everyone had to get one.

574
00:32:44,625 --> 00:32:47,725
And so the only way out of this then is by building parallel systems.

575
00:32:48,165 --> 00:32:54,065
It's not the only way, but it's, I think, the way that is the least violent and the

576
00:32:54,065 --> 00:32:58,165
most peaceful and the one with the least harm.

577
00:32:58,165 --> 00:33:02,125
plus the one that works without the majority agreeing upon it.

578
00:33:02,785 --> 00:33:05,305
The problem of the whole politicking scheme

579
00:33:05,305 --> 00:33:08,405
is that sure you can try to convince the politicians,

580
00:33:09,465 --> 00:33:12,585
but then even like, first of all, that's difficult.

581
00:33:13,185 --> 00:33:14,785
But even if you do succeed,

582
00:33:15,245 --> 00:33:16,545
a whole bunch of people will be angry.

583
00:33:17,045 --> 00:33:20,245
The core of the political system is a violence

584
00:33:20,245 --> 00:33:23,145
and of you forcing others to do what you want

585
00:33:23,145 --> 00:33:24,125
rather than what they want.

586
00:33:24,745 --> 00:33:25,585
You know, like we've seen that

587
00:33:25,585 --> 00:33:26,905
with the Bitcoin strategic reserve.

588
00:33:26,905 --> 00:33:34,385
A lot of people were like, no, I don't want that my tax money gets used to pump the bags of the early Bitcoiners.

589
00:33:34,605 --> 00:33:35,725
I don't want that.

590
00:33:36,265 --> 00:33:38,765
And they have a right in saying that.

591
00:33:39,365 --> 00:33:45,405
But we forced them to spend their tax money on buying more Bitcoin, for example.

592
00:33:45,665 --> 00:33:51,065
I mean, it didn't really happen in America yet, but that was the claim or the goal.

593
00:33:51,805 --> 00:33:54,685
And so people won't like our ideas.

594
00:33:54,685 --> 00:33:58,605
and if we force them, then turns out that we are the baddies.

595
00:33:59,285 --> 00:34:01,905
And that's why I'm not a big fan of the political means entirely.

596
00:34:02,505 --> 00:34:05,885
I would rather work with people who would like to work with me

597
00:34:05,885 --> 00:34:08,825
and build the ideas that they agree with

598
00:34:08,825 --> 00:34:12,485
and not force them on things that they don't really want to do.

599
00:34:12,965 --> 00:34:14,465
And that's the beauty of the parallel economy.

600
00:34:14,465 --> 00:34:18,165
It's there for the people who want to, but we're not forcing anyone to join us.

601
00:34:18,565 --> 00:34:22,045
We're very open for anyone to come over to the free side of the world

602
00:34:22,045 --> 00:34:25,545
and will gladly accept you as long as you're being productive

603
00:34:25,545 --> 00:34:26,745
and you're actually helping us.

604
00:34:27,265 --> 00:34:29,245
We're very much not welcoming thieves.

605
00:34:29,985 --> 00:34:33,525
But ultimately, we're not forcing you to be part of this.

606
00:34:34,265 --> 00:34:36,945
Do you want to pay less in taxes and stack more Bitcoin?

607
00:34:37,365 --> 00:34:38,085
Of course you do.

608
00:34:38,445 --> 00:34:40,545
Well, by mining Bitcoin with Blockware, you can.

609
00:34:41,105 --> 00:34:43,405
Under section 168k of the US tax code,

610
00:34:43,725 --> 00:34:46,745
Bitcoin mining servers qualify for 100% bonus depreciation.

611
00:34:47,245 --> 00:34:48,885
This means every dollar you spend on miners

612
00:34:48,885 --> 00:34:51,205
can directly offset your income in a single year.

613
00:34:51,205 --> 00:34:54,165
and that's true for both business owners and W2 earners.

614
00:34:54,545 --> 00:34:56,945
If you have $100,000 in ordinary income,

615
00:34:57,105 --> 00:34:58,905
you can purchase $100,000 in miners

616
00:34:58,905 --> 00:35:01,625
and potentially offset your tax liability entirely.

617
00:35:02,505 --> 00:35:04,445
Blockware's mining as a service does all the heavy lifting.

618
00:35:04,725 --> 00:35:06,785
They secure the rigs, they source the low-cost power

619
00:35:06,785 --> 00:35:08,365
and they handle all the day-to-day maintenance.

620
00:35:08,885 --> 00:35:10,945
So you get to stack Bitcoin every single day

621
00:35:10,945 --> 00:35:12,665
while drastically shrinking your tax bill.

622
00:35:13,165 --> 00:35:17,165
Get started today at blockwaresolutions.com forward slash WBD

623
00:35:17,165 --> 00:35:20,365
and use code WBD for $100 off your first miner.

624
00:35:20,905 --> 00:35:24,165
That's blockwaresolutions.com forward slash WBD.

625
00:35:24,585 --> 00:35:26,885
Privacy was never a priority for mobile networks.

626
00:35:27,285 --> 00:35:30,025
For companies like AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon,

627
00:35:30,345 --> 00:35:32,525
data collection and monetization is the default.

628
00:35:32,985 --> 00:35:34,085
But Cape is changing that.

629
00:35:34,605 --> 00:35:36,325
Cape is a premium US mobile carrier

630
00:35:36,325 --> 00:35:38,745
with nationwide coverage designed from the ground up

631
00:35:38,745 --> 00:35:40,725
with privacy and security at the core.

632
00:35:41,505 --> 00:35:42,265
When you sign up,

633
00:35:42,365 --> 00:35:44,305
Cape collects the absolute minimum data required,

634
00:35:44,525 --> 00:35:45,905
stores it for the shortest time possible,

635
00:35:46,085 --> 00:35:47,045
and never sells it.

636
00:35:47,505 --> 00:35:48,965
They also make you significantly harder

637
00:35:48,965 --> 00:35:50,265
to track at the network level,

638
00:35:50,365 --> 00:35:54,045
and protect against sim swap attacks which are becoming one of the biggest security risks out

639
00:35:54,045 --> 00:35:59,245
there especially for bitcoiners cape sim swap protection is fundamentally different instead

640
00:35:59,245 --> 00:36:03,885
of usernames and passwords your account is secured by a 24 word passphrase similar to how bitcoin

641
00:36:03,885 --> 00:36:08,765
wallet works no one can initiate a sim swap or take control of your phone number except you

642
00:36:09,405 --> 00:36:14,605
this isn't a burner phone or workaround it's a normal mobile service built properly if you care

643
00:36:14,605 --> 00:36:19,725
about privacy and security there is no better mobile carrier to learn more and get 33 off your

644
00:36:19,725 --> 00:36:27,725
first six months, head to cape.co slash wbd and use code wbd at checkout. That's cape.co slash wbd.

645
00:36:27,865 --> 00:36:31,305
If you already self-custody Bitcoin, you know the deal with hardware wallets.

646
00:36:31,725 --> 00:36:36,185
Complex setups, clumsy interfaces, and a seed phrase that can be lost, stolen, or forgotten.

647
00:36:36,965 --> 00:36:41,405
Well, BitKey fixes that. BitKey is a multi-sig hardware wallet built by the team behind Square

648
00:36:41,405 --> 00:36:46,245
and Cash App. It packs a cryptographic recovery system and built-in inheritance feature into an

649
00:36:46,245 --> 00:36:52,065
intuitive easy to use wallet with no seed phrase to sweat over it's simple secure self-custody

650
00:36:52,065 --> 00:36:59,225
without the stress and time named bitkey one of the best inventions of 2024 get 20 off at bitkey.world

651
00:36:59,225 --> 00:37:07,945
when you use the code wbd that's b-i-t-k-e-y.world and use the code wbd i want to go back to something

652
00:37:07,945 --> 00:37:11,805
we talked about before in terms of that that freedom index what when were you last stolen from

653
00:37:11,805 --> 00:37:18,385
what's what's your best ever run at that to be honest not not long because like i buy stuff in

654
00:37:18,385 --> 00:37:24,505
stores and there's a massive tax on that right i have a driver license right i like i drive a car

655
00:37:24,505 --> 00:37:31,465
um it's it's it's like it's really really really like actually difficult and then like it's

656
00:37:31,465 --> 00:37:36,945
difficult in the modern world to do this just as a single individual living right now try to do this

657
00:37:36,945 --> 00:37:44,285
as a business yeah like try to feed a family right try try to feed 30 employees and and like

658
00:37:44,285 --> 00:37:50,425
building goods and services without being stolen from it's basically impossible and that just shows

659
00:37:50,425 --> 00:38:00,605
you how dire the situation is like we can't build a pencil without theft how sad is that right and

660
00:38:00,605 --> 00:38:01,485
And why is that?

661
00:38:01,625 --> 00:38:08,085
It's deeply perplexing that humans are just so used to stealing from each other.

662
00:38:08,545 --> 00:38:09,845
And it makes me sad.

663
00:38:10,405 --> 00:38:15,465
I think the big problem there is I don't think people understand your definition of theft.

664
00:38:16,145 --> 00:38:23,045
I think there would be people in Normie world that would not consider a lot of the things they do as theft,

665
00:38:23,105 --> 00:38:24,065
even though I think they should.

666
00:38:24,885 --> 00:38:26,445
And I don't know how you turn that around.

667
00:38:26,585 --> 00:38:28,765
This isn't a five-year problem.

668
00:38:28,865 --> 00:38:29,765
This is a hundred-year problem.

669
00:38:29,765 --> 00:38:32,405
Yeah, this is a multi-generational thing.

670
00:38:33,085 --> 00:38:37,225
And Ludwig von Mises emphasized just the power of ideas.

671
00:38:37,805 --> 00:38:42,985
Ideas are incredible because with the right ideas, we do the right things.

672
00:38:43,485 --> 00:38:45,705
And with the wrong ideas, we do the wrong things.

673
00:38:46,285 --> 00:38:49,185
And for a long time, especially in the last hundred years or so,

674
00:38:49,705 --> 00:38:52,105
wrong ideas were proliferated as the truth.

675
00:38:53,045 --> 00:38:55,385
And that leads to so much pain and suffering.

676
00:38:55,385 --> 00:39:18,845
And that's why it's important to write books, to do podcasts, to tell people about good and useful ideas and to try to win in this marketplace of ideas to make people realize that some of their world set and mind view is not really proper, not right, not good.

677
00:39:19,705 --> 00:39:21,845
And yeah, that's hard work.

678
00:39:21,845 --> 00:39:28,125
what do you think of the state of bitcoin privacy right now because obviously like we saw what

679
00:39:28,125 --> 00:39:34,305
happened with uh bill and kione samurai devs um there's been like a big resurgence of zcash

680
00:39:34,305 --> 00:39:39,005
pumping online like i think that's a lot of the silicon valley vcs but like that that narrative

681
00:39:39,005 --> 00:39:42,505
is growing that bitcoin doesn't have good enough privacy and therefore people should be using zcash

682
00:39:42,505 --> 00:39:49,925
like what's your overall take on it um the the problem of bitcoin is is bitcoin privacy is

683
00:39:49,925 --> 00:39:55,165
architectural. In order to receive Bitcoin and to validate that you actually got Bitcoin,

684
00:39:55,525 --> 00:39:59,765
you need to validate and look at every other transaction that came before you from everyone

685
00:39:59,765 --> 00:40:06,005
else on the planet for the history of Bitcoin. That's a stupid design. It's a non-private design.

686
00:40:06,445 --> 00:40:11,325
You cannot make a Bitcoin transaction without telling the entire world about the transaction.

687
00:40:12,005 --> 00:40:17,525
And that's the limit of the privacy. You have to reveal yourself in order to use the system.

688
00:40:17,525 --> 00:40:34,257
And that sucks right There two major solutions to it fundamentally on the blockchain layer The first is CoinJoin where we create transactions together rather than alone

689
00:40:34,977 --> 00:40:37,077
And that increases the size of the crowd.

690
00:40:37,398 --> 00:40:42,438
And all of a sudden it becomes very difficult to see where the input's going to which outputs.

691
00:40:42,857 --> 00:40:44,597
That's CoinJoin, it's Wasabi Wallet.

692
00:40:45,077 --> 00:40:45,797
It's a solved problem.

693
00:40:45,797 --> 00:40:50,537
Like with Wasabi 2.0 and the Wabi Sabi protocol, you get fantastic privacy on-chain.

694
00:40:51,257 --> 00:40:52,277
And it works.

695
00:40:52,497 --> 00:40:52,857
And it's easy.

696
00:40:52,857 --> 00:40:53,198
It continues to work.

697
00:40:53,377 --> 00:40:54,177
It's super easy.

698
00:40:54,317 --> 00:40:54,957
It's automated.

699
00:40:55,477 --> 00:40:58,177
Very little mental transaction costs and mental friction.

700
00:40:58,857 --> 00:41:01,398
So that's a solved aspect.

701
00:41:01,698 --> 00:41:04,777
The second solution is to swap histories.

702
00:41:05,557 --> 00:41:10,218
If I have a coin with a certain transaction history and you have a coin with a different transaction history,

703
00:41:10,218 --> 00:41:15,457
we can atomically swap the coin so that I end up having your transaction history and you end up having mine.

704
00:41:15,797 --> 00:41:20,957
And if we keep doing this often enough, then all of the analysis of the blockchain becomes meaningless

705
00:41:20,957 --> 00:41:25,157
because we never know if a transaction stayed with the person or if it's swapped to someone else.

706
00:41:25,837 --> 00:41:28,418
And ultimately, the Lightning Network is a coin swap network.

707
00:41:28,418 --> 00:41:32,637
They also moved the swaps off-chain, which is another fantastic benefit.

708
00:41:33,017 --> 00:41:36,857
You can make a Lightning transaction without the entire world having to see it.

709
00:41:37,357 --> 00:41:40,898
And so that also solves the fundamental problem itself.

710
00:41:40,898 --> 00:41:46,398
So we have two incredible solutions like CoinJoin for on-chain transactions.

711
00:41:46,898 --> 00:41:50,438
There's also some research and work in progress on coin swaps on the blockchain.

712
00:41:50,637 --> 00:41:56,257
But we have a fantastic coin swap network in the Lightning Network, which is also faster, cheaper, and so on.

713
00:41:56,657 --> 00:41:58,017
So two fantastic solutions.

714
00:41:58,477 --> 00:42:04,657
In the long run, what I'm most excited about and where I think long-term the privacy of Bitcoin will head

715
00:42:04,657 --> 00:42:07,677
is with a concept called shielded client-side validation.

716
00:42:08,557 --> 00:42:11,777
RGB is an instantiation of client-side validation.

717
00:42:11,777 --> 00:42:20,877
It basically means that instead of everyone having to validate every transaction, only the receiver has to validate the transaction history of the sender.

718
00:42:21,677 --> 00:42:26,257
So it's a client-side validation rather than global consensus validation that Bitcoin is currently.

719
00:42:26,977 --> 00:42:32,957
And recently a couple geniuses found out how we can add zero-knowledge proofs in these things.

720
00:42:32,957 --> 00:42:38,997
so that even the receiver of a coin does not learn the transaction history of the sender.

721
00:42:38,997 --> 00:42:43,357
But he can validate in zero knowledge that it is a valid coin

722
00:42:43,357 --> 00:42:48,737
with a valid history or chain of signatures without any inflation.

723
00:42:49,257 --> 00:42:52,257
So the receiver can validate all of these things that we need to validate

724
00:42:52,257 --> 00:42:56,377
in order to move Bitcoin properly without learning anything about it.

725
00:42:56,597 --> 00:42:58,777
And this is like BitVM roll-up stuff?

726
00:42:58,777 --> 00:43:03,438
So, no. Shielded CSV is a second layer accounting mechanism.

727
00:43:03,557 --> 00:43:05,198
A little bit like the Lightning Network.

728
00:43:06,057 --> 00:43:12,257
The real problem is how do we get the Bitcoin from the base layer into the second layer

729
00:43:12,257 --> 00:43:18,677
and out of the second layer back into the base layer trustlessly without any single party or consortium.

730
00:43:19,737 --> 00:43:24,557
And that was the original vision of the Blockstream research group that worked on sidechains.

731
00:43:24,557 --> 00:43:27,757
How do we get this trustless two-way peg, they called it?

732
00:43:27,757 --> 00:43:32,057
How can we get out of the blockchain and back into the blockchain without a trusted third party?

733
00:43:32,797 --> 00:43:39,398
And in order to do this, we need something like BitVM or changes to the Bitcoin consensus protocol.

734
00:43:39,398 --> 00:43:46,938
But the cool thing is there's now like four or five really theoretical cryptographic research teams that are trying to solve this two-way peg problem.

735
00:43:47,237 --> 00:43:52,017
As soon as we have that solved, Bitcoin's scalability and privacy is solved forever.

736
00:43:52,017 --> 00:43:55,137
I think. Because then we will just

737
00:43:55,137 --> 00:43:57,157
pack out of the slow, expensive

738
00:43:57,157 --> 00:43:59,017
and non-private

739
00:43:59,017 --> 00:44:01,198
base layer into a second layer

740
00:44:01,198 --> 00:44:02,977
accounting system, similar to Lightning

741
00:44:02,977 --> 00:44:05,177
but with way better privacy guarantees

742
00:44:05,177 --> 00:44:07,137
than Lightning. With even way better privacy

743
00:44:07,137 --> 00:44:08,198
guarantees than Zcash.

744
00:44:08,898 --> 00:44:11,097
For Zcash, you still have to

745
00:44:11,097 --> 00:44:13,037
validate every transaction in

746
00:44:13,037 --> 00:44:13,898
a zero knowledge proof.

747
00:44:14,657 --> 00:44:16,977
With the shielded client

748
00:44:16,977 --> 00:44:19,017
side validation, the full nodes

749
00:44:19,017 --> 00:44:20,997
don't have to validate anything. They don't

750
00:44:20,997 --> 00:44:25,297
have to validate signatures, they don't have to validate spending conditions, they just

751
00:44:25,297 --> 00:44:31,737
validate proof of work and they collect a set of accumulators or nullifiers, just large

752
00:44:31,737 --> 00:44:33,617
numbers that you put in a database.

753
00:44:34,137 --> 00:44:34,938
That's basically it.

754
00:44:36,077 --> 00:44:39,117
So you can do some really powerful stuff with this.

755
00:44:39,677 --> 00:44:43,657
And over the last couple of years, we've not only improved the second layer accounting

756
00:44:43,657 --> 00:44:47,737
privacy, again, shielded CSV is kind of the pinnacle of what we have so far.

757
00:44:47,737 --> 00:44:52,677
We've also found ways of doing these two-way pegs without having to change the Bitcoin consensus model.

758
00:44:53,597 --> 00:44:56,357
So I'm extremely bullish on this.

759
00:44:57,097 --> 00:45:01,557
And funny that you bring up Zcash because I haven't really verified,

760
00:45:01,837 --> 00:45:08,857
but just recently Zcash found some bug in their shielded private payment pool.

761
00:45:09,697 --> 00:45:14,357
And so they just made a hard fork or the miners stopped mining transactions in this pool.

762
00:45:15,117 --> 00:45:18,117
So Zcash is a cool research project

763
00:45:18,117 --> 00:45:20,317
and they've done some amazing cryptographic work.

764
00:45:20,817 --> 00:45:22,918
But it's not really a decentralized money system

765
00:45:22,918 --> 00:45:24,938
if someone can flip the finger

766
00:45:24,938 --> 00:45:27,537
and transactions are no longer happening.

767
00:45:28,137 --> 00:45:30,297
So if you have money in the industry that pooled

768
00:45:30,297 --> 00:45:31,877
and we're using Zcash anonymously,

769
00:45:32,297 --> 00:45:33,797
right now you cannot spend them anymore.

770
00:45:34,637 --> 00:45:35,938
I mean, that kind of sucks.

771
00:45:35,938 --> 00:45:37,077
That definitely sucks.

772
00:45:37,637 --> 00:45:40,877
So we need systems that are not just anonymous

773
00:45:40,877 --> 00:45:41,997
but also unstoppable.

774
00:45:41,997 --> 00:45:46,137
And it seems that Bitcoin has successfully done the unstoppable part.

775
00:45:46,637 --> 00:45:51,398
And it's already almost impossible to build unstoppable systems.

776
00:45:51,918 --> 00:45:54,837
It's already almost impossible to build anonymous systems.

777
00:45:55,297 --> 00:45:59,857
But to build unstoppable and anonymous systems, that's like the holy grail.

778
00:46:00,517 --> 00:46:03,037
And it's no wonder that it's taken us so long.

779
00:46:03,277 --> 00:46:07,737
It's literally at the edges of human consciousness and computer science.

780
00:46:07,737 --> 00:46:11,097
and we just need to fail a million times

781
00:46:11,097 --> 00:46:13,938
before we will find the one nugget that makes it work.

782
00:46:14,557 --> 00:46:16,257
That's the most bullish I've heard you

783
00:46:16,257 --> 00:46:17,537
on Bitcoin privacy ever, I think.

784
00:46:18,457 --> 00:46:21,957
Because I think last time we spoke was quite a while ago.

785
00:46:22,398 --> 00:46:23,337
I can't remember where we were hanging out,

786
00:46:23,418 --> 00:46:24,977
but you were talking about,

787
00:46:26,597 --> 00:46:27,757
this would have been before

788
00:46:27,757 --> 00:46:30,197
all this new novel stuff would come out,

789
00:46:30,257 --> 00:46:33,997
but these systems at the time were not failing,

790
00:46:33,997 --> 00:46:35,137
but they were being stopped.

791
00:46:35,137 --> 00:46:42,317
Like when the Samurai developers got put in jail and I know like Wasabi removed themselves from the US, that felt like a huge step backwards.

792
00:46:42,637 --> 00:46:44,737
This feels like a giant leap forwards.

793
00:46:45,017 --> 00:46:45,117
Yeah.

794
00:46:45,597 --> 00:46:45,717
Yeah.

795
00:46:46,357 --> 00:46:52,757
The downside is, again, with CoinJoin specifically, we made Bitcoin anonymous.

796
00:46:53,717 --> 00:46:57,597
We did not inherently make the anonymizing technology unstoppable.

797
00:46:58,457 --> 00:46:58,537
Right.

798
00:46:58,537 --> 00:47:02,177
In its single instantiation.

799
00:47:02,177 --> 00:47:06,377
Like CK Snacks, the company who created Wasabi, shut down.

800
00:47:06,657 --> 00:47:10,977
Shut down their services and that coin join coordinator stopped working.

801
00:47:11,617 --> 00:47:15,117
But in a sly roundabout way, the code is open source.

802
00:47:15,398 --> 00:47:16,237
Always has been.

803
00:47:16,697 --> 00:47:20,817
The ideas have been created, the code was created and ideas are bulletproof.

804
00:47:21,697 --> 00:47:25,957
And as long as there are courageous people that will continue running the software,

805
00:47:26,317 --> 00:47:29,517
both on the operator as well as the user side, it will continue to work.

806
00:47:29,517 --> 00:47:33,297
and we see now that coin join volumes are higher than before.

807
00:47:34,157 --> 00:47:38,737
So there are always going to be some people

808
00:47:38,737 --> 00:47:39,777
who care about this so much

809
00:47:39,777 --> 00:47:41,517
that they will make sure that it keeps running.

810
00:47:42,457 --> 00:47:46,177
The question is, can we design these systems

811
00:47:46,177 --> 00:47:48,757
so that there isn't even a single operator in the first place?

812
00:47:49,757 --> 00:47:51,837
And this is also something with BitVM.

813
00:47:52,257 --> 00:47:55,017
There are probably, it depends on the nuances,

814
00:47:55,177 --> 00:47:56,398
but there are probably going to be operators

815
00:47:56,398 --> 00:47:58,057
of these two-way bridges.

816
00:47:58,057 --> 00:48:01,017
and they will be the choke point of the future.

817
00:48:02,057 --> 00:48:06,037
And the sad story of the cypherpunks

818
00:48:06,037 --> 00:48:08,337
is that they've built incredible ideas,

819
00:48:09,097 --> 00:48:09,938
powerful code,

820
00:48:10,457 --> 00:48:12,898
but they're just humans and they can be killed.

821
00:48:13,497 --> 00:48:16,297
And they have been kidnapped, tortured and killed

822
00:48:16,297 --> 00:48:17,777
for decades.

823
00:48:18,297 --> 00:48:19,657
And that war is ongoing

824
00:48:19,657 --> 00:48:22,857
and people will continue to sacrifice their lives

825
00:48:22,857 --> 00:48:25,217
in order to make these tools a reality.

826
00:48:25,217 --> 00:48:30,237
and that just shows you how much these people believe in it right there's really something

827
00:48:30,237 --> 00:48:36,877
there for martyrs to like they do it for a reason and maybe you should look into the reason

828
00:48:36,877 --> 00:48:44,657
why people are willing to sacrifice themselves for the the broader good of humanity it's fucking

829
00:48:44,657 --> 00:48:49,157
awesome man um before we move on to something else i want to talk about what else in the book

830
00:48:49,157 --> 00:48:52,637
are the things that because i know it sucks i've not read this before we're doing this but like

831
00:48:52,637 --> 00:48:53,757
What else should we be getting into?

832
00:48:55,197 --> 00:49:00,418
So the first part of the book really is about the economics.

833
00:49:00,938 --> 00:49:03,517
The second part of the book is about the implementation.

834
00:49:06,037 --> 00:49:09,097
Maybe a couple more interesting words about the economics.

835
00:49:09,497 --> 00:49:14,617
Because there are three core concepts that I think you have to really understand

836
00:49:14,617 --> 00:49:20,037
in order to appreciate the full spectrum of freedom and especially of privacy.

837
00:49:20,037 --> 00:49:28,237
And those are the starting points, the axioms, the things that are self-evident to a large extent.

838
00:49:29,177 --> 00:49:32,717
And this is the methodology of the Austrian school.

839
00:49:33,657 --> 00:49:38,977
The Austrians are special because they have a different way of thinking about economic problems.

840
00:49:39,517 --> 00:49:44,257
Different than the Keynesians, different than the historicism school, different than the Chicago school.

841
00:49:44,677 --> 00:49:49,117
And I think it is an incredibly useful way of thinking about the problem.

842
00:49:49,938 --> 00:49:53,057
And so Ludwig von Mises came up with the first axiom that's covered in the book.

843
00:49:53,297 --> 00:49:58,817
And that's the action axiom, which is kind of obvious if you frame it this way,

844
00:49:58,877 --> 00:50:02,277
but it's really hard to come up with that frame in the first place.

845
00:50:02,657 --> 00:50:06,717
But it basically says that humans have problems and we try to fix them.

846
00:50:07,797 --> 00:50:10,077
That's ultimately what human action is.

847
00:50:11,597 --> 00:50:17,197
Mises would say that we live in a state of uneasiness and that we have an uncertain future.

848
00:50:17,197 --> 00:50:27,977
And we have means, we have resources, we have goods, our body, our time, our home, our wood, our meat, etc.

849
00:50:28,537 --> 00:50:35,837
And now the question is how do we allocate our scarce resources such that we will solve our problems in the future?

850
00:50:36,457 --> 00:50:39,677
And that is what action is all about ultimately.

851
00:50:39,677 --> 00:50:42,898
and the entrepreneurial spark,

852
00:50:43,117 --> 00:50:45,557
the creative idea of figuring out

853
00:50:45,557 --> 00:50:47,117
what will be the problems in the future

854
00:50:47,117 --> 00:50:49,637
and how do we allocate our resources today

855
00:50:49,637 --> 00:50:51,757
in order to fix them in the future.

856
00:50:52,418 --> 00:50:54,918
And not only for you yourself,

857
00:50:55,097 --> 00:50:56,197
but also for others.

858
00:50:56,817 --> 00:50:59,537
And that's why entrepreneurs and businessmen are heroes

859
00:50:59,537 --> 00:51:02,277
because they don't just solve their own problems,

860
00:51:02,277 --> 00:51:04,217
they solve other people's problems.

861
00:51:04,977 --> 00:51:07,597
And that's why they deserve recognition and reward.

862
00:51:07,597 --> 00:51:17,557
But ultimately this all comes down to action itself, to analyze the consequences of human action.

863
00:51:17,557 --> 00:51:25,057
I kind of like to think of psychology talks about the reason why we act in certain ways.

864
00:51:25,057 --> 00:51:34,297
And economics is about, regardless of why we act that way, what are the consequences of these types of actions?

865
00:51:34,297 --> 00:51:41,357
So a very praxeologically rigorous sentence is that the minimum wage leads to unemployment.

866
00:51:42,837 --> 00:51:44,217
And that is true.

867
00:51:44,617 --> 00:51:52,137
And there is a very obvious logical chain of reasoning that gets you from human action to minimum wage leads to unemployment.

868
00:51:53,037 --> 00:51:54,037
We should go through that chain.

869
00:51:55,097 --> 00:51:58,438
So basically, humans act.

870
00:51:58,597 --> 00:51:59,617
So we have problems.

871
00:51:59,817 --> 00:52:02,898
We want to live in a house and not be out in the rain.

872
00:52:04,297 --> 00:52:06,317
No, we're doing minimum wage, not price controls.

873
00:52:06,317 --> 00:52:12,557
So, okay, we want to produce a dinner, you know, to not be hungry anymore.

874
00:52:13,137 --> 00:52:14,998
And so that's our goal, right?

875
00:52:15,237 --> 00:52:16,977
Create food, not be hungry.

876
00:52:17,977 --> 00:52:26,057
Now we have our resources, you know, some flour, some salamis, cucumbers, whatever.

877
00:52:26,517 --> 00:52:27,597
And we want to make a sandwich.

878
00:52:29,257 --> 00:52:32,177
We need labor to produce anything, right?

879
00:52:32,177 --> 00:52:35,557
So we need to get someone to build it for us.

880
00:52:35,977 --> 00:52:37,157
We also need ideas.

881
00:52:38,057 --> 00:52:40,537
You could have all of the natural resources that you want.

882
00:52:40,857 --> 00:52:44,057
If you don't know how to use them, you will not be able to solve any of our problems.

883
00:52:44,918 --> 00:52:49,757
So ideas are part of the means of production that are needed.

884
00:52:50,597 --> 00:52:58,377
And now we want to allocate our scarce resources and transform them into a consumption good.

885
00:52:58,877 --> 00:53:03,517
So there are production goods that are the things that will later produce the consumption goods.

886
00:53:04,017 --> 00:53:07,357
And consumption goods are the things that we destroy in order to solve our problems.

887
00:53:07,977 --> 00:53:09,957
After I eat the sandwich, it's gone.

888
00:53:10,657 --> 00:53:11,877
But I'm no longer hungry.

889
00:53:12,657 --> 00:53:15,477
So ultimately, humans consume stuff.

890
00:53:15,617 --> 00:53:17,517
We destroy stuff to make us happy.

891
00:53:18,237 --> 00:53:22,157
And first we need to produce and create the things that we will later destroy.

892
00:53:23,557 --> 00:53:28,297
And now the trick is to be able to produce things very efficiently.

893
00:53:28,377 --> 00:53:34,377
if it's if it's if it's inefficient to produce something right then it it doesn't make sense to

894
00:53:34,377 --> 00:53:40,117
do again if it takes you 10 bitcoin to produce something that you can sell for one bitcoin no

895
00:53:40,117 --> 00:53:47,617
one's gonna do it no one's gonna do it right and so the problem of a minimum wage is that it increases

896
00:53:47,617 --> 00:53:54,117
the cost of production to more than what people would voluntarily be paid for right let's say you're

897
00:53:54,144 --> 00:53:55,824
to stick with this example, you want to produce the sandwich,

898
00:53:56,404 --> 00:53:59,924
you know you can sell the sandwich for one Bitcoin.

899
00:54:00,264 --> 00:54:02,004
That's what the people are willing to pay for.

900
00:54:02,744 --> 00:54:05,024
And let's say it costs you 0.5 Bitcoin

901
00:54:05,024 --> 00:54:07,744
to get all of the raw materials together.

902
00:54:08,284 --> 00:54:10,904
And let's say it would cost you 0.3 Bitcoin

903
00:54:10,904 --> 00:54:15,124
to hire the person to put it together.

904
00:54:15,504 --> 00:54:17,744
So your cost of production are 0.7 Bitcoin

905
00:54:17,744 --> 00:54:20,144
and your revenue would be one Bitcoin.

906
00:54:20,584 --> 00:54:22,204
So you make 0.3 Bitcoin profit.

907
00:54:23,144 --> 00:54:24,084
You're going to do it.

908
00:54:24,144 --> 00:54:26,604
Like 30 million sats, that's a lot of sats.

909
00:54:27,184 --> 00:54:29,164
Like I'll happily sell you the sandwich for that.

910
00:54:29,644 --> 00:54:32,344
Now what if the state comes and says,

911
00:54:32,664 --> 00:54:36,604
you are not allowed to hire someone for 0.3 Bitcoin.

912
00:54:37,264 --> 00:54:40,644
You can only hire them if you pay them double, 0.6 Bitcoin.

913
00:54:41,784 --> 00:54:45,484
Now this is a triangular intervention, as Rothbard would have said it.

914
00:54:45,964 --> 00:54:49,124
The state, or anyone, comes to you and coerces you

915
00:54:49,124 --> 00:54:51,924
under the threat of violence that you are not allowed

916
00:54:51,924 --> 00:54:53,544
to do a business with someone else.

917
00:54:54,144 --> 00:55:01,804
So Alice and Bob are not allowed to work together unless Alice pays Bob 0.6 Bitcoin instead of 0.3.

918
00:55:02,404 --> 00:55:04,884
Which, you know, at first glance sounds great.

919
00:55:05,104 --> 00:55:06,784
Like Alice, Bob is going to get more money.

920
00:55:07,344 --> 00:55:08,264
This is awesome.

921
00:55:08,344 --> 00:55:08,684
Why not?

922
00:55:08,784 --> 00:55:10,464
We want the workers to make a lot of money.

923
00:55:10,964 --> 00:55:17,364
But the problem is now we've increased our costs from 0.7 Bitcoin to 1.1 Bitcoin.

924
00:55:18,444 --> 00:55:21,624
So all of a sudden we're no longer profitable.

925
00:55:22,484 --> 00:55:26,064
We have to spend more than one Bitcoin,

926
00:55:26,204 --> 00:55:27,284
like one and a half Bitcoin, whatever,

927
00:55:27,764 --> 00:55:29,164
in order to produce the thing

928
00:55:29,164 --> 00:55:32,204
that the people will only buy from us voluntarily

929
00:55:32,204 --> 00:55:32,884
at one Bitcoin.

930
00:55:33,464 --> 00:55:35,124
Nobody is willing to buy it from us

931
00:55:35,124 --> 00:55:36,984
at 1.5 Bitcoin.

932
00:55:37,744 --> 00:55:40,544
So I would lose money if I offer the good.

933
00:55:41,344 --> 00:55:43,204
So what will I do?

934
00:55:43,304 --> 00:55:44,544
I will not hire Bob.

935
00:55:44,544 --> 00:55:45,524
Or increase the price.

936
00:55:45,984 --> 00:55:47,044
I could increase the price,

937
00:55:47,144 --> 00:55:48,084
but then they would not buy it.

938
00:55:48,524 --> 00:55:49,904
So I wouldn't have the customers.

939
00:55:49,904 --> 00:55:53,864
and so I just simply cannot afford to hire Bob anymore.

940
00:55:54,104 --> 00:55:55,304
So I have to let him go.

941
00:55:55,504 --> 00:55:56,604
I have to shut down my business.

942
00:55:57,464 --> 00:55:59,024
So it leads to unemployment

943
00:55:59,024 --> 00:56:01,504
because it increases the cost of productions

944
00:56:01,504 --> 00:56:03,604
higher than it otherwise would have been.

945
00:56:03,824 --> 00:56:05,684
And Bob might be willing to work for 0.3 Bitcoin.

946
00:56:05,864 --> 00:56:07,404
And that's the thing, right?

947
00:56:07,524 --> 00:56:08,284
Bob is happy.

948
00:56:08,464 --> 00:56:10,104
Bob wants to have the 0.3 Bitcoin.

949
00:56:10,584 --> 00:56:12,204
Again, 30 million cents is a lot of cents.

950
00:56:12,484 --> 00:56:14,344
I would do a lot of things for 0.3 Bitcoin,

951
00:56:15,084 --> 00:56:16,124
especially build a sandwich.

952
00:56:16,124 --> 00:56:21,984
so like that's that's the problem with with intervention is that alice and bob were happy

953
00:56:21,984 --> 00:56:27,464
before like if bob wouldn't have wanted to work for 0.3 bitcoin he wouldn't have done it right

954
00:56:27,464 --> 00:56:33,204
as long as alice didn't force him right as long as bob is not a slave and he's voluntarily choosing

955
00:56:33,204 --> 00:56:39,784
to work with alice both are happy do you think it's like a lack of understanding of second and

956
00:56:39,784 --> 00:56:44,844
third order consequences because like the reason that i think people are constantly trying to

957
00:56:44,844 --> 00:56:48,064
increase the minimum wages, because it feels good to be like, you should get more money.

958
00:56:48,064 --> 00:56:50,944
Are feelings getting in the way of actual economics?

959
00:56:51,324 --> 00:56:56,744
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. There's a fantastic book by Perel Biden called The Seen,

960
00:56:56,924 --> 00:57:02,284
the Unseen, and the Unrealized, which talks exactly about this. You know, and the classic

961
00:57:02,284 --> 00:57:05,944
example is the broken window fallacy. Yeah, you should explain that because people won't

962
00:57:05,944 --> 00:57:13,424
know exactly what it is. So if, you know, you have a butcher, he has a shop, right? The shop

963
00:57:13,424 --> 00:57:18,944
has a window and some hooligan comes along and throws a stone through the window, breaks

964
00:57:18,944 --> 00:57:19,204
it.

965
00:57:19,804 --> 00:57:25,404
The first obvious analysis of this is, well, that's great because Alice has a glassmaking

966
00:57:25,404 --> 00:57:25,724
shop.

967
00:57:25,844 --> 00:57:26,604
She makes windows.

968
00:57:27,064 --> 00:57:27,824
And now she's going to get some money.

969
00:57:27,964 --> 00:57:28,644
Oh, she's got some money.

970
00:57:28,724 --> 00:57:29,744
Like she has a job, right?

971
00:57:29,824 --> 00:57:32,244
She has a new customer that she otherwise wouldn't have.

972
00:57:32,704 --> 00:57:36,564
Alice is going to get rich because Bob will have to buy a new window from Alice.

973
00:57:37,664 --> 00:57:42,284
And that's, you know, that's again, like if we increase the minimum wage, people get more

974
00:57:42,284 --> 00:57:42,544
money.

975
00:57:42,784 --> 00:57:43,304
Isn't that great?

976
00:57:43,424 --> 00:57:46,944
But the problem is the unseen, right?

977
00:57:47,024 --> 00:57:54,224
The things that require a couple extra steps of analysis is that Bob, the butcher who now has a broken window, he had some savings.

978
00:57:54,924 --> 00:57:59,644
And his plans with his money, his capital was to take his daughter on a vacation.

979
00:58:00,524 --> 00:58:04,204
That is the thing that he was planning to spend the money on later.

980
00:58:04,204 --> 00:58:10,244
but now all of a sudden because the window was broken when it was working perfectly fine before

981
00:58:10,244 --> 00:58:18,984
he has to reduce the spending for the vacation in order to buy the window so the unseen aspect is

982
00:58:18,984 --> 00:58:25,184
that bob and his daughter will not have a fun time and charlie who is running the hotel that bob would

983
00:58:25,184 --> 00:58:31,064
have spent the money on is now not getting the money right so we're reallocating the money away

984
00:58:31,064 --> 00:58:34,144
from Bob and Charlie, who would have traded voluntarily,

985
00:58:34,704 --> 00:58:38,664
towards Bob and Alice, and Alice gets paid

986
00:58:38,664 --> 00:58:41,724
for something that was working perfectly fine before.

987
00:58:42,584 --> 00:58:45,844
This is the whole weird statist argument

988
00:58:45,844 --> 00:58:48,864
that going to war is great for the economy.

989
00:58:48,944 --> 00:58:49,824
Yeah, crazy.

990
00:58:50,004 --> 00:58:51,124
Which is wild.

991
00:58:51,484 --> 00:58:55,024
We're producing things, and then we're destroying the things

992
00:58:55,024 --> 00:58:56,524
in order to destroy other things.

993
00:58:56,684 --> 00:58:58,324
Bombs are expensive to produce.

994
00:58:58,324 --> 00:59:04,904
right and like we just destroy the bombs by definition of it blowing up and then we also

995
00:59:04,904 --> 00:59:10,364
destroy the houses and the equipment of the enemy right so it's a we produce stuff so that we can

996
00:59:10,364 --> 00:59:15,224
destroy a lot of stuff and somehow that's supposed to make us rich it makes no sense it makes absolutely

997
00:59:15,224 --> 00:59:21,704
no sense right unfortunately it's very very very common misunderstanding and because people think

998
00:59:21,704 --> 00:59:25,564
that people working in the factories building the bombs they're getting paid that's the thing it's a

999
00:59:25,564 --> 00:59:27,904
resource shift.

1000
00:59:28,144 --> 00:59:29,464
Like the resources get allocated

1001
00:59:29,464 --> 00:59:31,464
away from the peaceful people

1002
00:59:31,464 --> 00:59:34,064
towards the military industrial complex.

1003
00:59:34,924 --> 00:59:35,704
The people

1004
00:59:35,704 --> 00:59:37,204
who produce the bombs, they get rich.

1005
00:59:37,304 --> 00:59:39,284
And let's be honest, all these countries are running at a deficit.

1006
00:59:39,404 --> 00:59:41,364
That money is being created and making

1007
00:59:41,364 --> 00:59:43,184
everyone else poorer in the meantime as well.

1008
00:59:43,184 --> 00:59:44,204
Exactly. Yes.

1009
00:59:44,964 --> 00:59:47,004
And that's the same thing with the state.

1010
00:59:47,124 --> 00:59:49,204
The state is exclusively funded by

1011
00:59:49,204 --> 00:59:50,764
theft. Like definitionally.

1012
00:59:51,004 --> 00:59:52,464
There's taxation and there's inflation.

1013
00:59:53,064 --> 00:59:55,144
Those are the two ways that the state gets his money.

1014
00:59:55,564 --> 00:59:56,084
Ultimately.

1015
00:59:56,844 --> 01:00:00,664
And so anything the state spends money on is stolen from people.

1016
01:00:01,324 --> 01:00:07,044
And the sad thing of theft is that it decreases the value of the society.

1017
01:00:08,404 --> 01:00:15,204
And on the flip side, the beauty of free exchange is that by definition, it makes both parties better off.

1018
01:00:16,084 --> 01:00:23,424
If you have a sandwich and I have a steak and I would prefer to have the sandwich and you would prefer to have the steak, then we can trade.

1019
01:00:23,424 --> 01:00:26,104
and afterwards both of us are happier than before.

1020
01:00:26,604 --> 01:00:27,924
That's why we did the trade

1021
01:00:27,924 --> 01:00:29,544
because we thought that we'll be better

1022
01:00:29,544 --> 01:00:30,764
after the trade than before.

1023
01:00:31,124 --> 01:00:32,544
That's why we voluntarily did it.

1024
01:00:32,964 --> 01:00:35,444
So by definition, with every trade,

1025
01:00:35,824 --> 01:00:36,544
everyone is better.

1026
01:00:37,504 --> 01:00:38,404
And on the flip side,

1027
01:00:38,904 --> 01:00:41,564
if I have the steak and you have the sandwich

1028
01:00:41,564 --> 01:00:44,664
and I have also a $5 wrench and I hit you

1029
01:00:44,664 --> 01:00:46,564
and I take away the sandwich,

1030
01:00:47,004 --> 01:00:49,184
now you have nothing plus a lot of pain.

1031
01:00:49,184 --> 01:00:49,984
You're happy.

1032
01:00:50,324 --> 01:00:51,344
I'm very happy.

1033
01:00:51,844 --> 01:00:52,584
But you're not.

1034
01:00:52,584 --> 01:00:57,504
And you're probably less happy than I'm more happy.

1035
01:00:57,924 --> 01:00:59,764
So we've destroyed something.

1036
01:01:00,384 --> 01:01:02,244
And obviously, obviously, right?

1037
01:01:02,404 --> 01:01:04,084
Theft destroys things.

1038
01:01:04,264 --> 01:01:05,724
War destroys things.

1039
01:01:06,104 --> 01:01:07,784
Breaking windows destroys things.

1040
01:01:08,404 --> 01:01:10,084
It's the intuitively obvious,

1041
01:01:10,544 --> 01:01:13,424
it should be common sense that that's a bad idea.

1042
01:01:13,804 --> 01:01:16,424
Is part of that down to like the broken window fallacy,

1043
01:01:16,504 --> 01:01:19,604
down to the discounting of the use of savings,

1044
01:01:19,724 --> 01:01:21,404
like saving money is using money.

1045
01:01:21,404 --> 01:01:27,404
Is that discounted and the idea of speed of money moving around an economy over-indexed?

1046
01:01:28,344 --> 01:01:28,804
Exactly.

1047
01:01:29,004 --> 01:01:36,824
That's one of the Keynesian fallacies, is that saving money is a bad thing and spending it is good because it pushes up the GDP and the higher GDP is better.

1048
01:01:37,604 --> 01:01:40,484
That's, again, a very short-term thinking.

1049
01:01:40,684 --> 01:01:43,404
Because without savings, you cannot produce anything.

1050
01:01:44,924 --> 01:01:47,064
Every production requires saving.

1051
01:01:47,384 --> 01:01:48,544
It doesn't matter what it is.

1052
01:01:48,544 --> 01:01:54,324
it's again a definitional argument of you cannot produce without having saved resources that you

1053
01:01:54,324 --> 01:02:01,224
use in order to produce stuff right obviously and and so if we decrease savings we will produce less

1054
01:02:01,224 --> 01:02:08,264
if we increase savings we will produce more eventually and that goes back to time preference

1055
01:02:08,264 --> 01:02:15,084
as well the reason why people save basically to save means you know you have five ribeyes in in

1056
01:02:15,084 --> 01:02:20,064
the freezer and instead of eating all of the five ribeyes today which you know would satiate you

1057
01:02:20,064 --> 01:02:25,944
instantly you degrade you you delay your gratification so so that you go hungry today

1058
01:02:25,944 --> 01:02:32,484
and so that you can have food for the next couple days so the more you save the more you are

1059
01:02:32,484 --> 01:02:38,904
actually delaying the the satisfaction of things and that is ultimately what what makes us richer

1060
01:02:38,904 --> 01:02:41,644
is to not consume and consume and consume,

1061
01:02:42,184 --> 01:02:44,604
but to think ahead for the future

1062
01:02:44,604 --> 01:02:47,144
and to save our resources today,

1063
01:02:47,224 --> 01:02:48,504
to consume less today

1064
01:02:48,504 --> 01:02:51,004
so that we and our children and grandchildren

1065
01:02:51,004 --> 01:02:52,464
will have more stuff

1066
01:02:52,464 --> 01:02:54,804
that they can build greater projects with.

1067
01:02:55,184 --> 01:02:57,684
GDP is obviously like a nonsense metric,

1068
01:02:58,004 --> 01:02:59,624
but it's the metric that everyone uses

1069
01:02:59,624 --> 01:03:01,744
to sort of judge economies against each other,

1070
01:03:01,904 --> 01:03:03,684
judge your own economy against previous years.

1071
01:03:04,104 --> 01:03:06,384
Like what would the Austrians say you should use for that?

1072
01:03:06,384 --> 01:03:09,144
Like how do you measure the economy?

1073
01:03:09,944 --> 01:03:12,684
You shouldn't measure the economy ultimately.

1074
01:03:13,324 --> 01:03:16,104
Like it's a methodological difference.

1075
01:03:16,844 --> 01:03:27,586
And more I mean you can obviously but as soon as you create a metric then people will try to optimize for that metric And so it creates the incentive you don want to see

1076
01:03:27,746 --> 01:03:28,106
Exactly.

1077
01:03:28,526 --> 01:03:28,786
Yes.

1078
01:03:29,486 --> 01:03:34,106
So you, I guess you should count for like problem solved, right?

1079
01:03:34,326 --> 01:03:37,906
Number of trades is a somewhat decent metric, right?

1080
01:03:37,906 --> 01:03:39,906
Number of voluntary trades should go up.

1081
01:03:40,106 --> 01:03:40,486
Cost of goods?

1082
01:03:41,406 --> 01:03:41,806
Yeah.

1083
01:03:41,886 --> 01:03:46,566
Cost of goods or prices are kind of the result of a whole bunch of trades happening.

1084
01:03:46,746 --> 01:03:51,926
And if we can decrease our prices, that means we can solve more problems ultimately, right?

1085
01:03:51,926 --> 01:03:54,326
Because with less capital, we can solve the problem.

1086
01:03:54,426 --> 01:03:56,826
And that means we have capital left over to solve the next problem.

1087
01:03:57,306 --> 01:04:00,346
So yeah, probably decreasing prices is an interesting metric.

1088
01:04:00,886 --> 01:04:07,766
Prices are so powerful because that was one of the genius starting points of the Austrian economic tradition by Karl Menger,

1089
01:04:08,146 --> 01:04:10,546
is that the value is not in the good itself.

1090
01:04:11,086 --> 01:04:13,566
The value is in the minds and hearts of individuals.

1091
01:04:14,566 --> 01:04:17,266
This was a fallacy that goes back to the ancient Greeks,

1092
01:04:17,786 --> 01:04:19,626
continued through with Adam Smith,

1093
01:04:19,966 --> 01:04:22,926
and then later very much made deadly by Karl Marx,

1094
01:04:23,466 --> 01:04:25,166
that value is in the thing itself.

1095
01:04:25,586 --> 01:04:26,626
It's what they all believed in.

1096
01:04:27,186 --> 01:04:30,026
And if you really believe in that and you think it logically through,

1097
01:04:30,566 --> 01:04:32,646
then communism is the only logical way.

1098
01:04:33,386 --> 01:04:36,326
But the problem is that value is not in the goods.

1099
01:04:36,786 --> 01:04:37,846
Value is in your heart.

1100
01:04:38,626 --> 01:04:41,186
You value something because it helps you.

1101
01:04:41,186 --> 01:04:44,766
and you value the same thing different depending on the circumstances.

1102
01:04:45,486 --> 01:04:48,566
If you're in the desert and you're starving for water

1103
01:04:48,566 --> 01:04:50,626
and you haven't drunk for the whole day

1104
01:04:50,626 --> 01:04:53,726
and someone offers you a tiny cup of water.

1105
01:04:53,846 --> 01:04:54,906
I'll give you a Bitcoin for it.

1106
01:04:55,066 --> 01:04:56,726
Take whatever you want, right?

1107
01:04:57,306 --> 01:05:01,066
The little bit of water will have an unmeasurable amount of value.

1108
01:05:01,786 --> 01:05:04,806
Well, if you're sitting at a fresh spring river

1109
01:05:04,806 --> 01:05:07,326
and someone comes with a plastic bottle of water,

1110
01:05:07,426 --> 01:05:08,646
you're like, no, thank you.

1111
01:05:09,006 --> 01:05:10,846
I have a fresh spring water here.

1112
01:05:10,846 --> 01:05:12,466
I don't value this water at all.

1113
01:05:13,026 --> 01:05:15,026
So the same thing for the same person

1114
01:05:15,026 --> 01:05:15,966
at different scenarios

1115
01:05:15,966 --> 01:05:18,166
has immensely different values.

1116
01:05:19,606 --> 01:05:23,146
But the thing is,

1117
01:05:23,626 --> 01:05:26,686
we can't really put a number on value.

1118
01:05:27,626 --> 01:05:30,506
Value is subjective and value is ordinal.

1119
01:05:30,947 --> 01:05:34,466
Meaning I can say that I prefer steak over a sandwich.

1120
01:05:34,806 --> 01:05:35,766
I'm not a big fan of bread,

1121
01:05:35,846 --> 01:05:37,226
so I prefer just the meat.

1122
01:05:37,226 --> 01:05:41,006
but I can't really say that I like steak

1123
01:05:41,006 --> 01:05:42,546
five times more than sandwich

1124
01:05:42,546 --> 01:05:45,186
you can't even say that you like steak

1125
01:05:45,186 --> 01:05:46,526
every time more than sandwich

1126
01:05:46,526 --> 01:05:47,606
exactly right

1127
01:05:47,606 --> 01:05:50,126
and so then the question is

1128
01:05:50,126 --> 01:05:51,806
what is the value of things

1129
01:05:51,806 --> 01:05:53,386
that's a useful thing to know

1130
01:05:53,386 --> 01:05:55,346
in order to allocate our resources

1131
01:05:55,346 --> 01:05:58,386
because you could build your house

1132
01:05:58,386 --> 01:05:59,306
out of pure gold

1133
01:05:59,306 --> 01:06:01,366
that's an option

1134
01:06:01,366 --> 01:06:03,066
not for me

1135
01:06:03,066 --> 01:06:05,326
or you could build it out of wood

1136
01:06:06,206 --> 01:06:08,086
So what should you choose?

1137
01:06:08,886 --> 01:06:13,246
And the thing is, again, costs of things versus the value that we get out of them.

1138
01:06:13,246 --> 01:06:18,126
If we build stuff that costs way more than what we get out of, then we're not profitable.

1139
01:06:18,447 --> 01:06:20,226
We're making a loss and we'll just get poorer.

1140
01:06:20,746 --> 01:06:27,986
So if we would all build our houses out of insanely valuable things like gold, then we would get poorer and poorer and poorer.

1141
01:06:28,386 --> 01:06:32,986
So we need to find a way that we can make the decision of should I use gold or should I use wood?

1142
01:06:32,986 --> 01:06:36,926
and the price is what helps us make this decision.

1143
01:06:37,786 --> 01:06:42,286
The price puts an actual number on the value of things.

1144
01:06:42,286 --> 01:06:44,786
It's not an exact representation of the value,

1145
01:06:45,346 --> 01:06:49,246
but it is like at what price the two people voluntarily agree

1146
01:06:49,246 --> 01:06:51,166
to exchange the good with each other.

1147
01:06:51,947 --> 01:06:55,366
And that's why prices are so fundamentally important

1148
01:06:55,366 --> 01:06:59,686
because it helps us to allocate our resources efficiently

1149
01:06:59,686 --> 01:07:02,066
so that instead of destroying stuff,

1150
01:07:02,146 --> 01:07:03,566
we create more stuff over time,

1151
01:07:03,566 --> 01:07:04,746
which makes us richer

1152
01:07:04,746 --> 01:07:06,706
and solves more problems in the long run.

1153
01:07:07,066 --> 01:07:09,366
And that's fundamentally why socialism

1154
01:07:09,366 --> 01:07:10,846
and communism doesn't work.

1155
01:07:11,286 --> 01:07:12,726
Because what socialism is,

1156
01:07:12,886 --> 01:07:14,706
is the abolition of private property.

1157
01:07:15,286 --> 01:07:17,526
You are no longer allowed to own resources.

1158
01:07:18,066 --> 01:07:19,746
The collective owns the resources,

1159
01:07:20,066 --> 01:07:21,246
whatever that means, by the way.

1160
01:07:21,726 --> 01:07:24,306
But the problem, if you don't have ownership,

1161
01:07:25,086 --> 01:07:26,266
then you cannot trade.

1162
01:07:26,486 --> 01:07:28,906
Because trading means to exchange ownership.

1163
01:07:29,686 --> 01:07:31,506
And with a trade, we get a price.

1164
01:07:32,447 --> 01:07:35,726
And so if you don't own things, you cannot trade things, you don't have a price,

1165
01:07:36,046 --> 01:07:38,426
then you don't know how to allocate resources.

1166
01:07:38,846 --> 01:07:42,366
You don't have a number to put on the value of things.

1167
01:07:42,926 --> 01:07:46,586
And that's why every time socialism was tried, people starved to death

1168
01:07:46,586 --> 01:07:49,506
because we've destroyed all the food, literally.

1169
01:07:50,086 --> 01:07:51,646
It's a dire, dire situation.

1170
01:07:52,106 --> 01:07:54,806
And that's why today's world is a little bit messed up

1171
01:07:54,806 --> 01:07:56,666
because we're living in socialism.

1172
01:07:57,046 --> 01:07:58,447
Yeah. I mean, we're in Oslo.

1173
01:07:58,447 --> 01:08:04,646
especially in Oslo but but that means we we simply don't know the value of things anymore

1174
01:08:04,646 --> 01:08:09,506
yeah and that means that we're tricked into spending more than we otherwise would have

1175
01:08:09,506 --> 01:08:13,786
and in consuming more than we otherwise would have and in not building the things that we

1176
01:08:13,786 --> 01:08:18,707
actually need and so we just get poorer over time and more depressed over time why does putting the

1177
01:08:18,707 --> 01:08:27,626
value in the thing lead to communism um because uh let's say i have the stake and and i have the

1178
01:08:27,626 --> 01:08:29,906
and you have the sandwich, right?

1179
01:08:30,466 --> 01:08:33,827
And the value would be like objective in the thing.

1180
01:08:34,146 --> 01:08:35,966
Let's say the steak is worth seven

1181
01:08:35,966 --> 01:08:37,806
and the sandwich is worth five.

1182
01:08:38,367 --> 01:08:42,086
Then if we trade, you win while I lose.

1183
01:08:43,166 --> 01:08:44,966
Whereas in the other scenario, we both win

1184
01:08:44,966 --> 01:08:45,867
because that's just what we want.

1185
01:08:45,986 --> 01:08:46,367
Exactly.

1186
01:08:46,966 --> 01:08:48,766
But why does that lead to communism?

1187
01:08:49,266 --> 01:08:52,646
Because then if one person always loses in a trade,

1188
01:08:53,046 --> 01:08:53,867
then we shouldn't trade.

1189
01:08:53,867 --> 01:08:54,766
No one trades, I see.

1190
01:08:54,947 --> 01:08:55,166
Right?

1191
01:08:55,306 --> 01:08:56,947
It's a bad thing to trade

1192
01:08:56,947 --> 01:08:59,166
if you know that one guy is winning over the other.

1193
01:08:59,726 --> 01:09:01,526
That's why theft is bad, right?

1194
01:09:01,566 --> 01:09:02,626
For the exact same argument,

1195
01:09:02,726 --> 01:09:04,106
one guy wins, the other guy loses.

1196
01:09:04,367 --> 01:09:05,386
We shouldn't do that.

1197
01:09:06,106 --> 01:09:07,926
And so if value is in the thing,

1198
01:09:08,426 --> 01:09:10,766
the logical conclusion is you should not trade.

1199
01:09:11,026 --> 01:09:12,766
You should not even own anything then.

1200
01:09:12,947 --> 01:09:14,207
I'll eat the sandwich that I don't want

1201
01:09:14,207 --> 01:09:15,686
and you'll eat the steak you don't want

1202
01:09:15,686 --> 01:09:17,526
and we'll pretend to be happy.

1203
01:09:17,746 --> 01:09:18,926
Exactly, yes.

1204
01:09:19,367 --> 01:09:22,586
So does it surprise you that we're seeing

1205
01:09:22,586 --> 01:09:24,546
like quite a big rise in socialism

1206
01:09:24,546 --> 01:09:25,906
and like outright communism?

1207
01:09:25,906 --> 01:09:28,386
Like the communist parties like in the UK

1208
01:09:28,386 --> 01:09:29,686
are definitely gaining traction.

1209
01:09:30,046 --> 01:09:31,906
Like the outright communist parties that are,

1210
01:09:33,327 --> 01:09:34,486
like, does that surprise you?

1211
01:09:34,506 --> 01:09:35,486
Because when I look at that,

1212
01:09:35,606 --> 01:09:38,546
I think most of these people

1213
01:09:38,546 --> 01:09:40,766
are naively seeing the problems in the world

1214
01:09:40,766 --> 01:09:42,327
that we've talked about this entire show

1215
01:09:42,327 --> 01:09:44,606
and then just picking the wrong solution.

1216
01:09:44,726 --> 01:09:47,286
Again, I think because feelings are way over indexed

1217
01:09:47,286 --> 01:09:48,166
in all of this stuff.

1218
01:09:48,686 --> 01:09:51,426
But like, does that make sense that that's growing?

1219
01:09:51,886 --> 01:09:52,306
Absolutely.

1220
01:09:52,886 --> 01:09:55,346
Again, Ludwig von Mises wrote a fantastic book on this

1221
01:09:55,346 --> 01:09:58,106
called the middle of the road leads to socialism.

1222
01:09:58,966 --> 01:10:01,207
And socialism being the abolition of private property,

1223
01:10:01,486 --> 01:10:03,306
which is an instantiation of communism.

1224
01:10:03,827 --> 01:10:08,186
So the problem is, if we start introducing price controls,

1225
01:10:08,986 --> 01:10:11,286
just on milk, milk should be like,

1226
01:10:11,526 --> 01:10:13,486
the farmers should get a decent price for their milk.

1227
01:10:14,246 --> 01:10:18,566
So we're putting a minimum price on milk,

1228
01:10:19,026 --> 01:10:23,966
which means that people are no longer able to buy the milk

1229
01:10:23,966 --> 01:10:26,306
because they are not,

1230
01:10:27,486 --> 01:10:29,367
or let's do the other way,

1231
01:10:29,426 --> 01:10:31,026
let's say a maximum price on something.

1232
01:10:31,406 --> 01:10:33,827
Let's stick with the maximum price on houses.

1233
01:10:35,106 --> 01:10:38,207
So now we have a maximum price.

1234
01:10:38,406 --> 01:10:39,926
Entrepreneurs can no longer charge more,

1235
01:10:40,246 --> 01:10:41,786
which means they will produce less

1236
01:10:41,786 --> 01:10:46,867
because they cannot produce the thing profitably.

1237
01:10:48,166 --> 01:10:51,126
And now people lack houses.

1238
01:10:51,546 --> 01:10:52,406
And so the government is like,

1239
01:10:52,406 --> 01:10:54,246
hey, we got to produce more houses.

1240
01:10:54,947 --> 01:10:59,287
But the producers will say, hey, well, I cannot produce it

1241
01:10:59,287 --> 01:11:00,386
because my costs are too high.

1242
01:11:01,046 --> 01:11:03,166
And so now there are two solutions to it.

1243
01:11:03,506 --> 01:11:06,566
Either we remove the maximum price on houses,

1244
01:11:07,326 --> 01:11:08,947
which sounds bad.

1245
01:11:09,246 --> 01:11:15,006
So let's decrease the maximum price for steel.

1246
01:11:16,746 --> 01:11:21,966
And now steel is cheaper because we forced them to sell it cheaper.

1247
01:11:21,966 --> 01:11:25,046
and so now we can build houses again while being profitable

1248
01:11:25,046 --> 01:11:27,666
because the costs of building have decreased.

1249
01:11:28,506 --> 01:11:30,626
But now the steel producers are like,

1250
01:11:30,726 --> 01:11:33,106
well, okay, but now I'm no longer profitable.

1251
01:11:33,646 --> 01:11:34,766
And we're going to have the same choice.

1252
01:11:34,846 --> 01:11:37,666
Do we remove the price intervention or do we double down on it?

1253
01:11:38,306 --> 01:11:41,366
And now the fuel prices will have a maximum thing, right?

1254
01:11:41,426 --> 01:11:43,046
And so it keeps trickling down

1255
01:11:43,046 --> 01:11:45,947
until we have maximum prices put everywhere.

1256
01:11:46,686 --> 01:11:49,566
And that's again just a maximum price

1257
01:11:49,566 --> 01:11:50,846
is the abolition of private property.

1258
01:11:50,846 --> 01:11:55,586
if you are no longer allowed to trade your goods for the price that both parties agree on

1259
01:11:55,586 --> 01:12:00,226
it's no longer yours it's the government's and you have to ask for permission to trade it later

1260
01:12:00,226 --> 01:12:07,726
and that ultimately you know leads to more and more socialism and then on the other hand we have

1261
01:12:07,726 --> 01:12:11,826
inflation right the same thing like we can increase our money supply to pay the subsidies

1262
01:12:11,826 --> 01:12:17,466
to those producers so that they have extra income but that means that we've increased the money

1263
01:12:17,466 --> 01:12:23,246
supply, which means prices will keep going up. And so more and more people will be poor. And so we

1264
01:12:23,246 --> 01:12:26,486
need to give them more subsidies. And what are we going to do? We're going to print more money,

1265
01:12:26,926 --> 01:12:31,346
right? Until we have an economic crisis. And what's the solution to an economic crisis? It's

1266
01:12:31,346 --> 01:12:37,346
obviously more money printing, right? And that just keeps going and going and going. And that's

1267
01:12:37,346 --> 01:12:43,006
why the middle of the road leads to socialism. Unless we put a hard stop on theft. And then

1268
01:12:43,006 --> 01:12:56,209
And hopefully very quickly we will actually become profitable again as a society How do you think you change the mind of these people who think that entrepreneurs and CEOs and billionaires are evil

1269
01:12:56,209 --> 01:13:00,009
into thinking, no, these are the people that are solving problems for humanity

1270
01:13:00,009 --> 01:13:02,189
and they should be paid whatever the market demands?

1271
01:13:03,369 --> 01:13:06,529
Well, books and ideas are one answer.

1272
01:13:07,169 --> 01:13:10,789
If you pick up For a New Liberty, for example, by Mary Rothbard,

1273
01:13:10,789 --> 01:13:15,089
It's a very good intro to what freedom and entrepreneurship actually is.

1274
01:13:15,509 --> 01:13:16,829
It's hard to disagree with that book.

1275
01:13:16,949 --> 01:13:17,809
It's really easy to read.

1276
01:13:18,529 --> 01:13:22,129
But much more prevalent is experiential knowledge.

1277
01:13:23,109 --> 01:13:23,829
Start a business.

1278
01:13:24,209 --> 01:13:24,309
Yeah.

1279
01:13:24,569 --> 01:13:29,729
I mean, there's a reason that like growth in the communist party in the UK is like out of universities.

1280
01:13:30,629 --> 01:13:32,329
Because these people haven't worked yet.

1281
01:13:32,409 --> 01:13:32,569
Yeah.

1282
01:13:32,749 --> 01:13:32,949
Right?

1283
01:13:32,949 --> 01:13:39,469
and that's in part of what really started my love for for the economy and for entrepreneurism

1284
01:13:39,469 --> 01:13:44,749
was to work myself like i got my first job when i was nine a big fan of child labor by the way i

1285
01:13:44,749 --> 01:13:50,289
think child labor would absolutely solve the communist problem absolutely because children

1286
01:13:50,289 --> 01:13:55,469
will realize the value of working it's a beautiful thing to help others dude i've got a two-year-old

1287
01:13:55,469 --> 01:14:01,469
and obviously this isn't like working but she wants to help yeah like like there's a desire to

1288
01:14:01,469 --> 01:14:02,189
This is working.

1289
01:14:02,669 --> 01:14:03,909
This is absolutely working.

1290
01:14:04,129 --> 01:14:06,849
Like cleaning the stairs in the house,

1291
01:14:07,329 --> 01:14:08,829
you know, vacuuming the floor.

1292
01:14:08,929 --> 01:14:09,569
She wants to cook.

1293
01:14:09,629 --> 01:14:10,649
She wants to put things in the bin.

1294
01:14:10,729 --> 01:14:11,429
She wants to like,

1295
01:14:11,509 --> 01:14:13,629
she wants to join in and do those things.

1296
01:14:13,629 --> 01:14:13,849
Exactly.

1297
01:14:13,849 --> 01:14:14,329
It's innate.

1298
01:14:14,729 --> 01:14:16,149
And encourage her to do that.

1299
01:14:16,189 --> 01:14:16,389
Yeah.

1300
01:14:16,629 --> 01:14:17,909
And to keep going

1301
01:14:17,909 --> 01:14:19,329
and to solve ever larger

1302
01:14:19,329 --> 01:14:20,869
and more complicated problem.

1303
01:14:21,089 --> 01:14:21,269
Yeah.

1304
01:14:21,429 --> 01:14:23,749
And to really, really appreciate that.

1305
01:14:24,349 --> 01:14:25,949
She hates the vacuum cleaner though.

1306
01:14:26,009 --> 01:14:27,209
That one's way too loud.

1307
01:14:28,409 --> 01:14:29,629
Well, and that's the good thing

1308
01:14:29,629 --> 01:14:31,209
about division of labor, you know?

1309
01:14:31,469 --> 01:14:34,349
She might not have to do the things that she doesn't like to do,

1310
01:14:34,889 --> 01:14:36,129
but she has to do something.

1311
01:14:36,469 --> 01:14:38,189
She can't just sit on the couch doing nothing.

1312
01:14:38,889 --> 01:14:39,709
So trade.

1313
01:14:40,509 --> 01:14:43,669
You will clean the floor and she can do the dishes.

1314
01:14:43,929 --> 01:14:44,069
Yeah.

1315
01:14:45,289 --> 01:14:48,349
It's really strange, though, seeing this growth in communism.

1316
01:14:48,349 --> 01:14:52,289
And I do think it's diagnosing the problem, misdiagnosing the solution.

1317
01:14:53,669 --> 01:14:57,149
And ideas like this, they're just right.

1318
01:14:57,309 --> 01:14:58,449
They are right.

1319
01:14:58,849 --> 01:15:00,849
But they don't hit the feels.

1320
01:15:00,849 --> 01:15:07,629
And I saw an interesting chart the other day that was like, it was one line going up slowly with like four or five decision points.

1321
01:15:07,709 --> 01:15:10,509
One line going down slowly with four or five decision points.

1322
01:15:10,989 --> 01:15:14,489
And the one going up was like tough but correct decision.

1323
01:15:14,609 --> 01:15:16,029
The one going down was felt good.

1324
01:15:16,309 --> 01:15:18,869
And I feel like that's just exactly what's happening in society.

1325
01:15:19,009 --> 01:15:20,289
Like we're on that downward trajectory.

1326
01:15:21,209 --> 01:15:21,309
Yeah.

1327
01:15:21,369 --> 01:15:23,589
And I think that's just a narrative mismatch.

1328
01:15:23,849 --> 01:15:24,069
Yeah.

1329
01:15:24,069 --> 01:15:30,449
Because like, you know, the truth is actually a good thing and like obviously beneficial for everyone.

1330
01:15:30,849 --> 01:15:34,149
And I think that's where just the mind control of government education comes in.

1331
01:15:34,229 --> 01:15:35,509
But that like PSYOP is crazy.

1332
01:15:35,609 --> 01:15:37,409
Like people think it's bad to make profit.

1333
01:15:37,689 --> 01:15:37,989
Yeah.

1334
01:15:38,069 --> 01:15:41,469
And I don't understand what has broken their brain.

1335
01:15:43,429 --> 01:15:44,689
Bad economic theory.

1336
01:15:45,289 --> 01:15:46,489
Ultimately, I think.

1337
01:15:46,489 --> 01:15:54,129
Like with a wrong starting assumptions, like, you know, value is in the things itself.

1338
01:15:54,629 --> 01:15:56,909
The collective is more important than the individual.

1339
01:15:57,649 --> 01:16:06,249
These types of starting points, if you agree with them and you take the natural conclusion, leads exactly to these problems.

1340
01:16:07,069 --> 01:16:09,869
So I think it's a methodological mistake.

1341
01:16:10,909 --> 01:16:12,509
And this was in Vienna.

1342
01:16:13,009 --> 01:16:17,569
They had decades of debates on the proper methodology of things.

1343
01:16:17,849 --> 01:16:19,109
And we no longer really do that.

1344
01:16:19,989 --> 01:16:23,469
You don't get taught methodology in university anymore.

1345
01:16:23,529 --> 01:16:25,629
You just get the Keynesian nonsense.

1346
01:16:25,629 --> 01:16:29,829
right i mean you don't even get that a lot of places like yeah i mean maybe at university but

1347
01:16:29,829 --> 01:16:33,689
it's like going through the schooling system in the uk we never learned anything about money yeah

1348
01:16:33,689 --> 01:16:39,369
like i i don't understand how just running a household budget isn't like you learn about

1349
01:16:39,369 --> 01:16:43,869
mitochondria but you don't learn about how to like run a budget like it's insane yeah it is

1350
01:16:43,869 --> 01:16:48,229
it is like that is so much more specialized and something that not everyone will have to do

1351
01:16:48,229 --> 01:16:53,709
and you just never learn about like how how you should think about finances yeah it's crazy

1352
01:16:53,709 --> 01:17:00,849
maybe the actual outcome is the intended outcome maybe people not really understanding how to not

1353
01:17:00,849 --> 01:17:08,269
be poor is exactly what they wanted and obedient soldiers who depend on the state for their

1354
01:17:08,269 --> 01:17:15,129
survival who will do anything that the state wants just to get fed yeah because like if you're

1355
01:17:15,129 --> 01:17:22,289
starving if your daughter is starving and like you will kill for her right if if you're well off

1356
01:17:22,289 --> 01:17:24,469
and she's fine, you probably won't kill.

1357
01:17:24,729 --> 01:17:24,929
Yeah.

1358
01:17:25,749 --> 01:17:28,469
And they got really good at tricking us into killing.

1359
01:17:29,289 --> 01:17:30,989
And that's sad.

1360
01:17:32,029 --> 01:17:33,449
One of the things I worry about in this

1361
01:17:33,449 --> 01:17:34,889
is like the TikTok brain rot,

1362
01:17:35,089 --> 01:17:37,449
like seven second attention span thing

1363
01:17:37,449 --> 01:17:39,769
is that like if someone hears you say

1364
01:17:39,769 --> 01:17:42,229
abolish minimum wage, child labor is good,

1365
01:17:42,469 --> 01:17:44,829
like they're not going to do the work

1366
01:17:44,829 --> 01:17:46,469
to understand what the actual argument is.

1367
01:17:46,489 --> 01:17:47,349
Because if they heard the argument,

1368
01:17:47,429 --> 01:17:49,029
I think it's very hard to disagree with.

1369
01:17:49,389 --> 01:17:51,109
Like, I think that's also driving

1370
01:17:51,109 --> 01:17:56,609
this in the wrong direction, that people, instead, if they hear abolish all minimum wage versus

1371
01:17:56,609 --> 01:18:01,169
we'll pay you more, like that's all they need to hear. There's no, there's no reason to go deeper

1372
01:18:01,169 --> 01:18:06,909
for a lot of people. And I don't know how we get out of that. Yeah. That's, that's a really good

1373
01:18:06,909 --> 01:18:10,929
point. And you know, like the, the, the books that really walk you through these conclusions

1374
01:18:10,929 --> 01:18:16,849
are like this, this thing, like my book is small. But this, and I guess like a textbook, right?

1375
01:18:16,849 --> 01:18:19,389
Because these are deep topics.

1376
01:18:19,549 --> 01:18:22,289
But like Man, Economy and State is like 1,500 pages.

1377
01:18:22,549 --> 01:18:23,369
This is 500.

1378
01:18:23,549 --> 01:18:24,949
This is relatively short.

1379
01:18:26,189 --> 01:18:30,169
No, it's like the real step-by-step reasoning just takes time.

1380
01:18:30,729 --> 01:18:41,409
And to really go through all of the different methods and ways of thinking of the problem to come to an actual conclusion, it's the unseen.

1381
01:18:41,749 --> 01:18:44,529
It's the extra logical steps that need to be taken.

1382
01:18:44,529 --> 01:18:52,349
And then it's just a question of, I think, you're in my job of packaging this up better, making better memes.

1383
01:18:52,689 --> 01:18:54,449
This is mimetic warfare, ultimately.

1384
01:18:54,889 --> 01:19:03,749
And we need to get really, really good at clipping those seven seconds and condensing this information into a digestible form.

1385
01:19:04,569 --> 01:19:09,189
And that has always been the struggle for ideas.

1386
01:19:09,889 --> 01:19:12,589
And the propaganda has been really good.

1387
01:19:12,589 --> 01:19:26,109
There are countless psychology geniuses who have thought really long and hard on how to proliferate the positive ideas of the state.

1388
01:19:26,669 --> 01:19:28,289
That's what propaganda is about.

1389
01:19:28,989 --> 01:19:34,189
Goebbels was a genius, an absolute genius who applied his genius for really bad things.

1390
01:19:34,689 --> 01:19:38,749
And we have to apply our genius for the better things.

1391
01:19:38,749 --> 01:19:51,929
Yeah. This might be impossible, but has anyone ever tried to almost run two simulations of like ever increasing minimum wages versus abolishing minimum wages and seeing what the average wage would be at the end of it?

1392
01:19:52,829 --> 01:20:02,269
I'm sure they have. I would probably disagree with the methodology of it because humans are not rocks, right?

1393
01:20:02,269 --> 01:20:05,909
We can make science experiments with rocks because rocks don't act.

1394
01:20:06,209 --> 01:20:08,589
They just react, right?

1395
01:20:08,709 --> 01:20:11,109
You let them fall, they go down.

1396
01:20:11,649 --> 01:20:14,129
They always have the same acceleration when they go down.

1397
01:20:14,269 --> 01:20:14,969
That's gravity.

1398
01:20:15,689 --> 01:20:19,669
And we can make replicable experiments for this.

1399
01:20:22,069 --> 01:20:27,709
The historicism school in early Vienna, late 19th century,

1400
01:20:27,709 --> 01:20:30,949
was thinking that we can apply this same methodology

1401
01:20:30,949 --> 01:20:32,689
to analyzing economics.

1402
01:20:33,549 --> 01:20:36,269
We can make a study of 100 people

1403
01:20:36,269 --> 01:20:38,429
and we will see how they behave.

1404
01:20:39,149 --> 01:20:41,589
And then we can draw conclusions

1405
01:20:41,589 --> 01:20:43,369
and predict the futures with that.

1406
01:20:45,109 --> 01:20:46,769
We've tried that now for a long time.

1407
01:20:47,669 --> 01:20:50,069
Basically, you're better off flipping a coin

1408
01:20:50,069 --> 01:20:51,989
than relying on an economist's prediction.

1409
01:20:52,849 --> 01:20:54,149
They're just not accurate.

1410
01:20:54,149 --> 01:20:59,389
and that's why I value the praxeological method

1411
01:20:59,389 --> 01:21:01,929
because we don't have to run these experiments.

1412
01:21:02,529 --> 01:21:05,349
We just have to find good starting points

1413
01:21:05,349 --> 01:21:06,729
and deduce logically from there

1414
01:21:06,729 --> 01:21:08,469
and see how far we can get.

1415
01:21:08,909 --> 01:21:11,009
And we can get really, really, really far.

1416
01:21:12,009 --> 01:21:16,169
And the interesting thing is that we can extend this.

1417
01:21:16,169 --> 01:21:19,549
So to get back to the axioms that I mentioned earlier,

1418
01:21:19,789 --> 01:21:22,129
with the action axiom by Ludwig van Mises,

1419
01:21:22,129 --> 01:21:25,169
we can deduce a bunch of economic thoughts.

1420
01:21:26,069 --> 01:21:29,229
We can deduce a whole bunch of exchange theory,

1421
01:21:29,609 --> 01:21:31,449
monetary theory, interest rate theory.

1422
01:21:31,709 --> 01:21:36,109
All of this we can deduce just from human action ultimately.

1423
01:21:36,869 --> 01:21:39,069
But what Mises was very careful about

1424
01:21:39,069 --> 01:21:40,949
is that we cannot make normative claims.

1425
01:21:41,829 --> 01:21:45,149
We cannot say that a minimum wage is bad

1426
01:21:45,149 --> 01:21:46,689
and we should not do it.

1427
01:21:47,349 --> 01:21:49,249
We can just say that it leads to unemployment.

1428
01:21:49,249 --> 01:22:03,389
And then later in the 1980s, Hans-Herborn Hoppe introduced a second axiom to the canon, which is the axiom of argumentation, from which we can deduce moral claims.

1429
01:22:04,329 --> 01:22:11,249
So he has found, and I think it's a marvelous achievement, a solution to the you cannot derive an ought from an is problem.

1430
01:22:12,269 --> 01:22:25,532
Like we cannot have a logical claim on what is good and what is bad i think he has clearly shown that we can right you you cannot deny that you own yourself in an argument ultimately like now

1431
01:22:25,532 --> 01:22:30,971
that we're speaking i cannot claim that i control your thoughts and still presume that we're actually

1432
01:22:30,971 --> 01:22:36,012
arguing and trying to discover the truth because if i control both my brain and your brain i'm just

1433
01:22:36,012 --> 01:22:41,151
talking to myself that's not really an argument right we're just agreeing with myself then so like

1434
01:22:41,151 --> 01:22:48,811
I have to presuppose that you are a sovereign being with your own mind, your own thoughts, and your own capability of reason and discovering truth.

1435
01:22:49,752 --> 01:22:56,011
So with this additional assumption, we can deduce what you ought to do and what you ought not to do.

1436
01:22:56,651 --> 01:22:58,971
And that's why I'm so firm on theft is bad.

1437
01:22:59,091 --> 01:23:01,151
Like it's not just economically stupid.

1438
01:23:01,711 --> 01:23:04,551
It doesn't only make us like less rich.

1439
01:23:04,611 --> 01:23:06,231
It makes us poor all the time.

1440
01:23:06,591 --> 01:23:08,731
But also it's just a bad thing to do.

1441
01:23:08,731 --> 01:23:12,471
because I could not actually claim that theft is a good thing

1442
01:23:12,471 --> 01:23:15,151
without proving that I own myself.

1443
01:23:15,451 --> 01:23:19,811
And therefore, I don't appreciate theft of my body.

1444
01:23:19,891 --> 01:23:21,191
Otherwise, I wouldn't have made the point.

1445
01:23:22,011 --> 01:23:25,691
And so we can, with the right methodology applied correctly,

1446
01:23:25,691 --> 01:23:28,811
we can really come to much better conclusions

1447
01:23:28,811 --> 01:23:32,191
than with wrong methodology,

1448
01:23:32,451 --> 01:23:35,231
like trying to do science experiments with humans.

1449
01:23:35,231 --> 01:23:43,211
You know, that whole idea of overpopulation is bad and we'll just run out of resources comes from exactly this thing, right?

1450
01:23:43,271 --> 01:23:51,471
Of we can make an experiment in like a Petri dish and we have like a certain amount of resources and sugars and then we add a fungus into it.

1451
01:23:51,771 --> 01:23:55,752
And eventually the fungus will spread and all the resources are gone and then the fungus dies.

1452
01:23:56,191 --> 01:24:00,191
So therefore we should kill humans to decrease the population so that we will survive longer.

1453
01:24:00,311 --> 01:24:05,011
Like, I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but countless people think like this, right?

1454
01:24:05,231 --> 01:24:05,871
Crazy.

1455
01:24:06,111 --> 01:24:07,791
And it's crazy, right?

1456
01:24:08,551 --> 01:24:15,992
But what this experiment misses is that we humans can create more sugar, right?

1457
01:24:16,171 --> 01:24:22,591
If we run out of stuff, we can just produce more of it because we are value-making machines, right?

1458
01:24:22,611 --> 01:24:25,471
And we can produce things with our hands and our minds.

1459
01:24:26,431 --> 01:24:30,832
And so having the wrong methodology leads to really, really dangerous conclusions.

1460
01:24:30,832 --> 01:24:35,631
fuck man i feel like we should do every six months we need to do like you can give me an austrian

1461
01:24:35,631 --> 01:24:42,691
economic lesson yeah yeah this has been awesome um i i only got this book two days ago from you

1462
01:24:42,691 --> 01:24:47,751
so i've not read it yet but this is going to be my uh my deep reading on the way home um but thank

1463
01:24:47,751 --> 01:24:51,412
you so much man this has been awesome no i really appreciate it is there anything that we've not

1464
01:24:51,412 --> 01:24:55,451
talked about that you want to today we'll definitely do this again though yeah we have to

1465
01:24:55,451 --> 01:24:59,611
I guess one aspect that's also at the very core of the book

1466
01:24:59,611 --> 01:25:05,231
is that ownership of information is a horrible idea.

1467
01:25:05,711 --> 01:25:08,392
It's one of those root problems that humanity has

1468
01:25:08,392 --> 01:25:10,811
is that we think we can own ideas.

1469
01:25:11,832 --> 01:25:15,492
And ownership means to be able to stop other people from using it.

1470
01:25:15,572 --> 01:25:16,511
It's the IP rules.

1471
01:25:16,631 --> 01:25:17,871
It's the IP rules, exactly.

1472
01:25:19,511 --> 01:25:20,992
This is so stupid.

1473
01:25:21,611 --> 01:25:24,511
Like, tremendously stupid on many levels.

1474
01:25:24,511 --> 01:25:33,111
um god gave us ideas that are non-scarce the words that i'm speaking now i can give them to

1475
01:25:33,111 --> 01:25:37,171
you i can give them to a million people in the audience hopefully let's see let's see

1476
01:25:37,171 --> 01:25:45,431
and the beautiful thing is i still have them yeah right i didn't have to sacrifice the sharing

1477
01:25:45,431 --> 01:25:53,931
of information so there is no potential conflict over who can control and own the ideas we can all

1478
01:25:53,931 --> 01:25:59,971
have them right and we need ideas to produce things right again if you're on a lonely island

1479
01:25:59,971 --> 01:26:05,311
with all the raw materials that you have but you don't know how to use a screwdriver then you can't

1480
01:26:05,311 --> 01:26:11,471
build anything right ideas are an essential means of production we need it in order to produce

1481
01:26:11,471 --> 01:26:18,492
anything right we need it to act we need to think and to have these ideas right so the beautiful

1482
01:26:18,492 --> 01:26:23,291
thing of ideas is that we can all use them at the same time once one person figures out a way of

1483
01:26:23,291 --> 01:26:29,892
doing something we can all use it and that one guy doesn't lose anything which is incredible it's a

1484
01:26:29,892 --> 01:26:37,251
gift and the idea of i wrote this book these patterns of words this collection of words are

1485
01:26:37,251 --> 01:26:43,791
mine and if you put them on your piece of paper i will hit you and take your book away because it's

1486
01:26:43,791 --> 01:26:51,671
my ideas that's so stupid because not only does it introduce a conflict where none existed right

1487
01:26:51,671 --> 01:26:55,111
We didn't have the conflict over ideas, but now all of a sudden we have.

1488
01:26:55,551 --> 01:26:59,511
So we've taken this abundance and put it back into the bucket of scarcity.

1489
01:26:59,851 --> 01:27:02,111
When we all want to go past scarcity, right?

1490
01:27:02,111 --> 01:27:07,131
We would like to have as many things that all of us could have whatever we want so that we no longer suffer.

1491
01:27:07,351 --> 01:27:08,471
That would be a utopia.

1492
01:27:08,611 --> 01:27:09,631
That would be paradise, right?

1493
01:27:09,971 --> 01:27:11,711
And we have that paradise with ideas.

1494
01:27:12,351 --> 01:27:18,611
But if we try to put it back into the box of ownership and scarcity, we're like back into the hellfire ultimately.

1495
01:27:18,611 --> 01:27:27,832
And the second aspect is, not only are we reducing the beautiful abundance of ideas, also I would actually be stealing your physical paper.

1496
01:27:28,471 --> 01:27:30,771
Because you worked hard to produce this paper.

1497
01:27:31,492 --> 01:27:33,532
And it is the scarce resource.

1498
01:27:33,912 --> 01:27:36,731
Either you have the book or the paper or I have the paper.

1499
01:27:37,032 --> 01:27:40,832
We can't both have this particular edition of the book at the same time.

1500
01:27:41,572 --> 01:27:42,771
That's a conflict.

1501
01:27:43,451 --> 01:27:47,551
That's where ownership and property rights is the solution to a problem.

1502
01:27:48,211 --> 01:27:50,951
The problem is who will be able to walk out with this book today?

1503
01:27:51,511 --> 01:27:52,691
Is it you or is it me?

1504
01:27:52,811 --> 01:27:53,591
It's mine, man.

1505
01:27:55,032 --> 01:27:58,191
Because Amazon printed it.

1506
01:27:58,471 --> 01:28:00,152
I paid Amazon to print it.

1507
01:28:00,611 --> 01:28:02,572
So it was my book, but then I gifted it to you.

1508
01:28:03,051 --> 01:28:04,751
And now it's no longer mine, it's yours.

1509
01:28:05,311 --> 01:28:10,271
So we have a clear chain of ownership that solves the conflict of who gets to walk out of it.

1510
01:28:10,332 --> 01:28:10,692
It's you.

1511
01:28:10,692 --> 01:28:15,332
And I have to agree with that based on me arguing about it in the first place.

1512
01:28:15,332 --> 01:28:22,551
so me trying to steal the book if you started to print it on your own is me actually taking away

1513
01:28:22,551 --> 01:28:29,551
your property and claiming that you stole my ideas which i still have i still have the pdf of the book

1514
01:28:29,551 --> 01:28:38,311
yeah so scarcity is at the root of property and we needed scarcity in cyberspace for money that's

1515
01:28:38,311 --> 01:28:43,332
why bitcoin is such a massive achievement we've introduced scarcity in cyberspace without a trusted

1516
01:28:43,332 --> 01:28:48,172
a third party. It's never existed before Bitcoin. And we've achieved that. And now we have money in

1517
01:28:48,172 --> 01:28:53,011
cyberspace. And that's beautiful. But for most things in cyberspace, scarcity is a really,

1518
01:28:53,011 --> 01:28:58,932
really bad idea. So this is why this book is published on the public domain. Like the PDF,

1519
01:28:59,332 --> 01:29:04,392
the markdown files, the print editions, the EPUB files, all of this is available for free on my

1520
01:29:04,392 --> 01:29:11,412
website. Towards liberty.com slash pop, Praxeology of Privacy. You can get it for free. Because it

1521
01:29:11,412 --> 01:29:16,531
doesn't cost me anything to give it to everyone who's listening, anyone who wants it. And also,

1522
01:29:16,531 --> 01:29:20,152
if you want to print it, please do like printing is expensive.

1523
01:29:21,631 --> 01:29:22,691
You're doing you a favor.

1524
01:29:22,932 --> 01:29:29,851
Exactly. Yeah. Like I want these ideas to flourish and to be understood by people. So if people want

1525
01:29:29,851 --> 01:29:34,152
to print it, if people want to sell it, do it and like keep the money.

1526
01:29:34,392 --> 01:29:39,172
That's awesome. I love that. I mean, I think everyone should read this book. I know I'm

1527
01:29:39,172 --> 01:29:44,051
going to learn a lot from it uh it's funny because like when i when you like i agree with you

1528
01:29:44,051 --> 01:29:48,851
wholeheartedly and like the idea of what you're saying but i know that like i also would want

1529
01:29:48,851 --> 01:29:53,251
people to support you in what you've done with this and buy it as well download it free and buy

1530
01:29:53,251 --> 01:30:01,152
it like i'd appreciate it too right but uh ultimately like i i have no claim of stealing

1531
01:30:01,152 --> 01:30:06,031
your money if you print this book and sell it yeah right it would be kind of a nice move you

1532
01:30:06,031 --> 01:30:07,491
to give some of that to me.

1533
01:30:08,771 --> 01:30:09,791
But you don't have to.

1534
01:30:10,051 --> 01:30:11,452
And honestly, I don't even expect it.

1535
01:30:12,452 --> 01:30:14,231
If people go through the effort,

1536
01:30:14,412 --> 01:30:16,152
and it's a lot of effort to print the book,

1537
01:30:16,332 --> 01:30:18,471
bring it to market, tell people about it,

1538
01:30:18,551 --> 01:30:19,871
manage all the customer relations,

1539
01:30:20,351 --> 01:30:21,771
that's a big job.

1540
01:30:21,952 --> 01:30:23,291
And people should get paid for it.

1541
01:30:23,711 --> 01:30:24,892
These ideas aren't mine.

1542
01:30:25,991 --> 01:30:28,172
I may have been the one to

1543
01:30:28,172 --> 01:30:30,011
put them in exactly this pattern,

1544
01:30:30,011 --> 01:30:32,152
but there's nothing new under the sun.

1545
01:30:32,592 --> 01:30:34,131
All of that I've learned in here

1546
01:30:34,131 --> 01:30:35,511
comes from other people.

1547
01:30:35,511 --> 01:30:38,231
there's like 500 footnotes in this book

1548
01:30:38,231 --> 01:30:42,131
you know like there is an insane amount of fantastic thinkers

1549
01:30:42,131 --> 01:30:44,251
who've gone so deep into these problems

1550
01:30:44,251 --> 01:30:45,892
and I'm standing on the shoulders of giants

1551
01:30:45,892 --> 01:30:49,211
like I wouldn't be here without reading tons of books

1552
01:30:49,211 --> 01:30:51,211
that were available for free on mises.org

1553
01:30:51,211 --> 01:30:54,592
so this is just my way of giving back

1554
01:30:54,592 --> 01:30:57,491
to all the free information that I could accumulate

1555
01:30:57,491 --> 01:31:02,251
and you know put a little spin on it from my point of view

1556
01:31:02,251 --> 01:31:05,092
but ultimately this book is a free book

1557
01:31:05,092 --> 01:31:08,051
and get it for free, get it in print,

1558
01:31:08,892 --> 01:31:09,731
do what you want with it.

1559
01:31:09,771 --> 01:31:10,932
Make a movie, love a movie.

1560
01:31:11,592 --> 01:31:14,251
It might be a hard one to find, to make a movie.

1561
01:31:15,152 --> 01:31:15,992
Dude, I love you.

1562
01:31:16,072 --> 01:31:17,072
Thank you for doing this, man.

1563
01:31:17,172 --> 01:31:18,191
It's really, really cool.

1564
01:31:18,412 --> 01:31:20,652
And I'm serious, we should do this every few months.

1565
01:31:20,832 --> 01:31:23,851
And you can be my Austrian economist teacher.

1566
01:31:24,892 --> 01:31:25,472
Let's do it.

1567
01:31:25,511 --> 01:31:26,211
All right, thank you, man.

1568
01:31:26,251 --> 01:31:26,531
This is cool.

1569
01:31:26,531 --> 01:31:26,912
Thanks, Danny.

1570
01:31:35,092 --> 01:32:05,072
Thank you.