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The scam can't run forever. There's something about Bitcoin that we felt like we discovered

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on our own was what kind of flipped the switch for us. We planted the seeds and maybe someday

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that they'll become a Bitcoiner. That's actually how it works. Bitcoin being a free market

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solution. That's why they're willing to tell you that you were right because they learned

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that on their own. I think that's maybe what some of the outside world's seen a little bit.

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It's like, why didn't the Fed shut them down? There's something different about this movement.

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The problem is people are trying to find the alpha.

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Okay, Bitcoin's 75,000.

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Go, I'm going to buy the XRP.

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I'm going to buy this.

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No, the alpha is still in Bitcoin.

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You want to be at the forefront of the Bitcoin economy.

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It kind of behooves us to spend some sats now.

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This is the fulfillment of the prophecies that we've been saying,

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the cypherpunks have been saying since the early days.

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We get to live through those.

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And it's pretty rewarding.

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We're in Vegas.

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There's a lot of Bitcoins around right now.

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And it's really funny.

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Vegas is the most fiat place in the world.

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100%.

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Like you walk around and it's like everything that's good

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and everything that's bad about America in one place.

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It's so overwhelming.

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And then you see this like group of Bitcoiners

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who are kind of just living in a parallel world.

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And you know, the criticism of like Bitcoin is a cult.

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Yeah.

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Is Bitcoin a cult?

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Cause I kind of think it is.

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A hundred percent.

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And I'll agree with that.

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I think I'm like qualified to agree with that

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because actually the first book,

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you might not know this,

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the first book I wrote was called Bitcoin Evangelism.

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So it was like literally like,

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Like, we're a cult, so how do we spread this gospel?

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And it's because there is, I mean, I'm a Christian,

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so I'm not knocking religion because I'm a religious guy.

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But there is something to be said about movements that shake the world.

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They have a, you can call it whatever you want,

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they have a cult-like following.

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They have raving fans behind it.

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And so we do, we need to foster an ethos

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that we shine a little bit differently

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than the rest of the world.

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So I think, you know, that was the knock on the conferences.

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Like, why would they come to Vegas?

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Why would they come to Vegas two years in a row?

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It's like, what better place to shine a light

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than in the darkness, you know?

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And I think that gives a,

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like that's the contrast you see of Bitcoin, Twitter,

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the world where everyone's angry, fighting about stuff.

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And then you get here and like vibes are good.

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Like we're in a bear market.

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There's probably less people here than last year maybe,

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but like vibes are still very high.

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Brian, we didn't introduce you.

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This is the first time you've been on the show.

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You should tell people who you are.

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My name is Brian DeMint.

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That's my real name.

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It's not like some altcoin name or anything like that.

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I get that all the time.

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It's like, oh, yeah, what are you shilling?

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No, DeMint is my real last name.

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I'm the head of marketing for Club Orange.

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We used to be Orange Pill App.

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So if anybody has heard of Orange Pill App,

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we are Club Orange now.

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We're the world's biggest network,

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social network for Bitcoiners in real life.

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So if you want to find and meet other Bitcoiners

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in your neighborhood, when you're at a conference, whatever, we have the app that helps facilitate

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that. We have over 20,000 active members. It's a really thriving, robust community of people who

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want to find local meetups. They want to find the after party. I think that was like,

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we thrive at something like this at a conference where there's a huge concentration of Bitcoiners,

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but most guys, they don't work in Bitcoin. They don't have Bitcoin connections, I guess,

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for lack of a better term. And so Club Orange kind of satisfies that of, I know what I'm doing

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from nine to five, because that's when the conference is. But after five o'clock, I don't

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want to be the guy who's in Vegas. It's just like strolling up and down the street, just finding

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whatever bar to go into. Like most, most Bitcoiners are like more sane than wanting to try and like

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find out what the night has in store for them in Vegas. And so they connect with other Bitcoiners

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and, uh, and actually foster legitimate friendships. We've had, we've had one marriage

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come from Club Orange.

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We try to stay away from marketing that.

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Yeah, when Club Tinder.

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That was the biggest concern

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because it's like most of our members,

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our Bitcoiners are typically men

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or women who are already married.

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And so it's like these people

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who are in loving relationships already,

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it's kind of hard to have your spouse

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find a meetup app on your phone.

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And so it is like when you tell them,

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hey, it's just Bitcoin nerds that are on the app,

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then it kind of satisfies that with the wife.

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But no, it is.

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There's an inherent desire for in-real-life connections.

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That's just what Mateo founded.

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That was his dream of founding this app

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to help Bitcoiners make friends with other Bitcoiners.

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And I think if Bitcoiners think Bitcoin's the future,

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then Bitcoiners are part of that future.

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Yeah, it's awesome.

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And then the group chat while I've been here

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has been going off.

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Clearly, there's a lot of people using it.

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But one of the interesting things

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when we talk about Bitcoin being a cult

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is one of the things you've got to do in a cult

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is bring more people into the cult.

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and I think everyone goes through this journey

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and I definitely did

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where when I got into Bitcoin

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I was super excited about it

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and I'm still super excited about it

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but I wanted to tell everyone

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and like so anytime I went out for drinks with people

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it's all I wanted to talk about

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and now when I go out with my normal friends

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I've kind of given up

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I find it tiring

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and I wait for people to come to me

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rather than the other way around

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like how do you keep the energy up

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to actually do that?

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I mean I think that's probably why people

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want to go meet other Bitcoiners

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so they can start out

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what I would call a friendship second base.

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So it's just like, well, you know

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that this guy's gone through the filter of,

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he's already read four Bitcoin books or whatever it has.

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He's already here, he watches what Bitcoin did.

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You know, that kind of thing.

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Like there really is this filter that happens.

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For the normie world, I think it gives,

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when Bitcoiners have a place to go and be around

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and like talk shop with it.

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And half the time their conversation

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isn't necessarily about Bitcoin.

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It's like Bitcoin's the bridge of the friendship,

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but then they talk about their other passions

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and those types of things.

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It's just like, hey, I know you're cool

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because you're in Bitcoin.

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Like that, that's enough for us to like have a hangout or have a meetup.

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But then we talk about the other things that we're into.

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Now, I think it gives those Bitcoiners more patience with their friends.

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Like you get to satisfy your Bitcoin cravings that you had as a newbie Bitcoiner because

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you have this show, you go to these conferences where people are pulling you in all sorts of

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different directions and asking you questions.

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So you have no shortage of like avenues for that to go into.

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And so I think it probably makes you more effective though.

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the times when your friends do come and finally ask you about Bitcoin is probably going to be

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during the next all-time high or whatever, you know, that type of thing. That's when our holdout

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friends, they wait to start asking questions. But I think it gives you probably as an individual,

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like Danny Knowles, like a little bit more patience with that person of like,

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I don't have to win this guy over so that I finally have a Bitcoin friend, you know,

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because that's what the stakes were before. It's like, I've got to make a, I've got to convert a

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Bitcoin are into the cold or else I have nobody to talk to. And so I think that that's maybe some

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of like the inertia that, that, that we're pulled towards in that. Um, but, but at the end of the

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day, yeah, we just, I think with my, with my normie friends, I just try to ask them questions

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to just meet them where they're at and just talk about normal things. And then the Bitcoin,

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when not everybody has a book or a Bitcoin show or whatever, but if you're, if you're the,

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if you're into Bitcoin, you're like the Bitcoin guy in your normie community. And so you're,

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you're the Michael Saylor to that community. Um, and so those questions will flow naturally. And

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so, yeah, for me, I think it gives me more patience with my, my uncle that just is like the last

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holdout, you know, do you know the funny thing there about like, cause you do become, you're

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known as like the Bitcoin are amongst your friends and you say you become like the Michael

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Saylor of those people, but that's not been my experience. It's like, it's that thing where like

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everyone's an idiot in their own village and like all these people know me from when I was like 11

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years old and absolutely I'm not listening to you. Um, that's a good point, but it's funny at

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these conferences, I, I become the normie, like by the end of it, after like five days of only

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talking about Bitcoin, I'm like, can we talk about football or something? That's funny. You know what?

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And I think I'll, I'll grant you that amongst my family, you know, the ones that have changed my

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diapers when I was a little kid or whatever the shot, you know, saw me light the neighbor's palm

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tree on fire with a bottle rocket. Like those are probably not the ones that are going to listen to

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me. I think it's the guys, there is something that comes from going to a conference and then

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speaking on stage. And then they see that on Instagram or whatever that kind of reinforces

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like, Oh wait, other people pay attention to you. That maybe does make you in that category a little

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bit more, but yeah, no, I've definitely got the cold. Like I had a friend one time, I think it

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was during COVID. He goes, why are you telling me this? He's like, who are you? Like, like,

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you're not the financial guru. I'm like, but I like, I'm trying to, you know? And so yeah,

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yeah, I've definitely gotten that. Yeah. I have seen that swing back the other way a little bit

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as well. And the most interesting thing this bear market has been in previous bear markets,

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I don't know if you've experienced the same thing. Like it's almost people sort of sniggering at you

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thinking like you fucked up, this is going to zero. And this time it's been totally different.

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Like this time I've had people reaching out instead of being like trying to buy at the top,

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they're like, Bitcoin looks cheap now. And I do wonder if the world more broadly is starting to

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wake up to Bitcoin. And I think the kind of sales of the world probably do help that. Like they've

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clearly brought a different level of sort of reputation to it. And then bringing a new audience

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in. But with that, do you think we lose anything in the Bitcoin culture, Bitcoin cult?

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I think that, yeah, that's, yeah, cults, cults. And that's where maybe the cult analogy breaks

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down a little bit is like a cult, once it gets to a certain size, like the feds come in and break

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it up, right? I mean, and like legitimately like the feds. Or you drink the Kool-Aid.

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Yeah, you drink the Kool-Aid, you put yourself out of business. And it's because the scam

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can't run forever. And I think that's maybe what some of the outside world's seen a little bit is

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like, why didn't they drink the Kool-Aid yet? Or why didn't the Fed shut them down? Like there's

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something different about this movement. I thought it was a Ponzi scheme, but like

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the Bitcoin obituaries thing comes up enough to these people where like your normie friends are

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like, yeah, I read this website where it talks about all the times that Bitcoin died. And I

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remember, because now they remember being part of the crew that rubbed it in your face two bear

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or bull market bear markets ago or three bear markets ago or however many however long you've

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been in it and so they recognize that they've had some egg on their face a little bit too

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yeah and so as as much as they could shame you in this moment they're like actually you you didn't

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like you didn't rub it in my face when it was at 126k and i've seen this this kind of cyclical

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thing happening and you just get enough financial like mainstream television that's that's kind of

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getting your back and that for good or bad or whatever that is it's branding i mean all things

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all the world is propaganda. And we can use the word propaganda in this really negative word,

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but it's using information to shift people's perspective. There's good propaganda and there's

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bad propaganda. And so at the end of the day, people are getting messaging through their

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television, through their phone. And there's enough financial institutions that have vested

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interest in Bitcoin that are going to legitimize it in their eyes. And so they would rather maybe

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kind of come back and give you credit because like they know that you you front ran some of

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those institutions it's like okay there's certain people you will get that that that stamp of

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validity with those those people where others they're going to run to yeah they're the financial

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instruments because they don't trust you but but it is it is rewarding when when you see people

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turn the corner and yes like not rubbing in your face in this bear market and saying like wow you

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know 75k seems like a good buy dude that's that's a while for anybody that's been in bitcoin for a

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while the statement that wow 75k seems cheap seems cheap is what we all said would happen but we like

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i hope that we all said we like we said it like i know that's going to happen but you we we hoped

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it would happen and just in the same way that we say oh when somebody you know somebody's going to

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buy it you know three quarters of a million dollars 750 000 and that's going to feel cheap

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00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,480
We're saying that now, but like, we don't know until it happens, right?

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00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,460
So this is the fulfillment of the prophecies that we've been saying,

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00:11:42,540 --> 00:11:44,600
the cypherpunks have been saying since the early days.

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We get to live through those and it's pretty rewarding.

234
00:11:48,100 --> 00:11:51,080
The thing that keeps me up at night is the idea of a critical error

235
00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:52,200
with my Bitcoin cold storage.

236
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And this is where AnchorWatch comes in.

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241
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242
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243
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248
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250
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251
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254
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267
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270
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271
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272
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273
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277
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278
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280
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283
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284
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and securing bitcoin i recommend swan meet the team at swan.com forward slash wbd which is swan.com

285
00:14:15,705 --> 00:14:22,025
forward slash wbd yeah it's funny when i got in first going to bitcoin like 2016 2017 people

286
00:14:22,025 --> 00:14:26,245
would talk would talk about 100k like they talk about a million dollars now and at the time i was

287
00:14:26,245 --> 00:14:30,065
like, yeah, a hundred K, but I kind of didn't believe it. And now when I'm, when people,

288
00:14:30,165 --> 00:14:32,425
I hear people talk about a million dollars, it's like, yeah, it's inevitable. Like it's

289
00:14:32,425 --> 00:14:36,825
going to happen. Um, one of the funny things on the Bitcoin obituary side, I had a friend

290
00:14:36,825 --> 00:14:42,185
who works in renewable energy and he, I remember at the time when the narrative was, it was

291
00:14:42,185 --> 00:14:46,705
going to consume all the world's energy by 2021 or whatever it was. Um, I remember having

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00:14:46,705 --> 00:14:51,885
a conversation with him and he was super skeptical about Bitcoin and I, his mind got changed

293
00:14:51,885 --> 00:14:52,885
in December last year.

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00:14:53,585 --> 00:14:54,965
So I went out to Africa,

295
00:14:55,105 --> 00:14:57,125
did an amazing trip with Eric Herzman.

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So we flew to Nairobi

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and then we did a 30-hour road trip

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from Nairobi up to the Ethiopian border

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over like a couple of days,

300
00:15:05,525 --> 00:15:06,645
three days, I think it was.

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00:15:06,905 --> 00:15:08,305
And I mean, the first seven hours

302
00:15:08,305 --> 00:15:08,725
were on a road.

303
00:15:08,805 --> 00:15:09,885
The rest of it was dirt tracks.

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00:15:09,985 --> 00:15:11,645
We were in the middle of absolutely nowhere.

305
00:15:12,085 --> 00:15:13,365
And it's like, there's nothing there.

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00:15:13,405 --> 00:15:14,345
It looks like you're on the moon.

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00:15:14,765 --> 00:15:16,265
And we went to this village called Saru,

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00:15:16,265 --> 00:15:17,665
which isn't even on any map

309
00:15:17,665 --> 00:15:18,785
that you can find,

310
00:15:19,005 --> 00:15:20,985
apart from like the very specific one

311
00:15:20,985 --> 00:15:21,565
that Eric uses.

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00:15:21,565 --> 00:15:24,565
he found this town and it's like a transient community there.

313
00:15:24,625 --> 00:15:26,685
So they have like four or 5,000 people at a time

314
00:15:26,685 --> 00:15:28,385
and basically no electricity.

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00:15:28,525 --> 00:15:29,705
The only electricity they have

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00:15:29,705 --> 00:15:31,725
is they've got one solar panel on the roof of a school

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00:15:31,725 --> 00:15:34,705
and one solar panel on the roof of their sort of medicine hut.

318
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And so they have no batteries in either of them.

319
00:15:38,365 --> 00:15:39,365
And so in the medicine hut,

320
00:15:39,445 --> 00:15:41,165
they have a rule where at like 4 p.m.,

321
00:15:41,165 --> 00:15:42,165
no one opens the fridge.

322
00:15:42,285 --> 00:15:44,565
They have, it's like one of those like, I don't know.

323
00:15:44,845 --> 00:15:45,125
Yeah, yeah.

324
00:15:45,225 --> 00:15:46,445
Waist high fridge freezer things.

325
00:15:46,505 --> 00:15:47,225
They have ice blocks.

326
00:15:47,765 --> 00:15:48,345
And at 4 p.m.

327
00:15:48,345 --> 00:15:48,865
That's what the medicine's in?

328
00:15:48,865 --> 00:15:50,645
They take the ice blocks and put it in the fridge

329
00:15:50,645 --> 00:15:51,505
to keep it cold overnight

330
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and then the power comes on

331
00:15:52,565 --> 00:15:53,325
when the sun comes up.

332
00:15:53,965 --> 00:15:54,885
And in the school,

333
00:15:55,045 --> 00:15:55,545
it's quite funny,

334
00:15:55,725 --> 00:15:55,985
they can,

335
00:15:56,305 --> 00:15:57,845
it's quite a large-ish school.

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00:15:58,285 --> 00:15:59,705
They can light eight

337
00:15:59,705 --> 00:16:00,965
of the classrooms they've got.

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00:16:01,085 --> 00:16:01,745
I think they had 10,

339
00:16:01,805 --> 00:16:02,445
they can light eight,

340
00:16:02,525 --> 00:16:03,685
but they only choose to do six

341
00:16:03,685 --> 00:16:04,585
because everyone wants to

342
00:16:04,585 --> 00:16:05,545
plug in their mobile phones

343
00:16:05,545 --> 00:16:06,125
during the day.

344
00:16:06,625 --> 00:16:07,365
And so he's gone out

345
00:16:07,365 --> 00:16:07,965
to this village

346
00:16:07,965 --> 00:16:09,425
and he wants to build

347
00:16:09,425 --> 00:16:10,945
a huge solar plant

348
00:16:10,945 --> 00:16:12,945
and he's obviously

349
00:16:12,945 --> 00:16:13,905
going to monetize that

350
00:16:13,905 --> 00:16:14,565
by mining Bitcoin,

351
00:16:14,785 --> 00:16:16,665
but the knock-on effect to them

352
00:16:16,665 --> 00:16:17,985
is that if they want

353
00:16:17,985 --> 00:16:19,085
to buy electricity,

354
00:16:19,085 --> 00:16:19,885
it's going to cost them

355
00:16:19,885 --> 00:16:23,845
one or two cents a kilowatt hour more than the cost of mining Bitcoin, which is the cheapest

356
00:16:23,845 --> 00:16:27,285
energy basically anywhere in the world. They'll be getting it for like 10 cents a kilowatt hour.

357
00:16:28,785 --> 00:16:33,145
And I did a show with Eric after that road trip and we kind of broke down the whole thing we went

358
00:16:33,145 --> 00:16:36,685
on. And this guy reached out to me like, I was wrong. He was like, this is one of the coolest

359
00:16:36,685 --> 00:16:40,045
things I've ever seen. And I actually need to put him in touch with Eric. He wanted to speak to him,

360
00:16:40,045 --> 00:16:45,885
but awesome. So like what it was, it was the, it was the financialization of it. It was like the,

361
00:16:45,885 --> 00:16:48,945
mechanism of power that won him over?

362
00:16:49,045 --> 00:16:54,025
The thing that won him over is that there is no way that that project would ever be sustainable

363
00:16:54,025 --> 00:16:55,105
unless it was an NGO.

364
00:16:55,625 --> 00:17:00,185
But the thing I also didn't understand until I went there is out in Africa, they hate the

365
00:17:00,185 --> 00:17:05,345
NGOs because what they do, the way they get paid is they'll get paid to like stand up

366
00:17:05,345 --> 00:17:06,165
a solar plant.

367
00:17:07,105 --> 00:17:08,705
And as soon as it's done, they get paid.

368
00:17:09,065 --> 00:17:12,625
And so there's no incentive for them to go back and like maintain the things that they

369
00:17:12,625 --> 00:17:12,925
build.

370
00:17:12,925 --> 00:17:14,165
So this is actually a town.

371
00:17:14,425 --> 00:17:15,805
It's the closest town to Saru,

372
00:17:15,865 --> 00:17:18,445
which has a big solar plant that was built by an NGO.

373
00:17:19,205 --> 00:17:20,565
And they built it.

374
00:17:20,605 --> 00:17:22,105
And then like a storm came through,

375
00:17:22,185 --> 00:17:23,085
a load got flipped over.

376
00:17:23,285 --> 00:17:25,245
And then people started stealing the electricity

377
00:17:25,245 --> 00:17:26,565
from the energy lines.

378
00:17:26,785 --> 00:17:28,525
And so they were like, we're pulling out.

379
00:17:28,745 --> 00:17:31,305
And someone stopped them from pulling out.

380
00:17:31,365 --> 00:17:33,785
So instead of completely ripping the whole thing out,

381
00:17:33,885 --> 00:17:36,685
they now charge 72 cents kilowatt hour there.

382
00:17:37,045 --> 00:17:38,245
So the poorest people in the world.

383
00:17:38,325 --> 00:17:38,905
That's crazy.

384
00:17:39,025 --> 00:17:40,645
So like the idea of having,

385
00:17:40,765 --> 00:17:41,685
so the thing that got him

386
00:17:41,685 --> 00:17:43,665
is the idea of these people going in as capitalists.

387
00:17:43,745 --> 00:17:44,545
They're there to make money,

388
00:17:44,665 --> 00:17:47,225
but the effect on the local people is awesome.

389
00:17:47,345 --> 00:17:48,805
Right, so a free market solution.

390
00:17:49,065 --> 00:17:50,545
Like without Bitcoin,

391
00:17:50,625 --> 00:17:52,225
he couldn't have imagined a free market solution

392
00:17:52,225 --> 00:17:53,305
that would solve their problem.

393
00:17:53,365 --> 00:17:54,405
There was no way you could do it.

394
00:17:54,445 --> 00:17:54,725
Wow.

395
00:17:54,805 --> 00:17:55,185
No way.

396
00:17:55,245 --> 00:17:55,665
That's amazing.

397
00:17:55,745 --> 00:17:57,705
Because they can build a solar plant

398
00:17:57,705 --> 00:17:59,385
that's big enough for them for decades,

399
00:17:59,385 --> 00:18:01,645
but they can monetize it instantly.

400
00:18:01,905 --> 00:18:03,465
Yeah, and I think it's funny

401
00:18:03,465 --> 00:18:07,065
because I think that's why people get that story

402
00:18:07,065 --> 00:18:10,105
and it's the humanitarian side and capitalism winning.

403
00:18:10,105 --> 00:18:18,965
And so, I mean, you can speak to a few different people groups of, you know, you're winning people over to Bitcoin because whether you're a capitalist or whether you're somebody who cares about people in Nairobi or whatever it is.

404
00:18:19,125 --> 00:18:37,465
I was talking to a dude at the conference today that's talking about how he's working with the wealthiest companies in the world in AI and how they're using and they're throttling Bitcoin miners to allow for kind of a market dynamic for AI computation and stuff.

405
00:18:37,465 --> 00:18:46,065
And so it's like, whether you're dealing with the wealthiest, the most well-capitalized companies in the world, there's a free market solution involving Bitcoin mining.

406
00:18:46,225 --> 00:18:50,325
And whether you're dealing with the poorest people in the world, the spectrum is massive.

407
00:18:50,645 --> 00:19:00,485
And the problems that are being solved by this, and that's like, that's not even Fox News or any of the financial channels have never once mentioned that.

408
00:19:00,585 --> 00:19:02,905
Like, that's not something that's part of the narrative, you know?

409
00:19:03,265 --> 00:19:06,925
And so that's where I think when people hear this, they feel like they've discovered.

410
00:19:06,925 --> 00:19:08,985
And I think that's the biggest eye-opener for most people.

411
00:19:09,085 --> 00:19:10,525
And I think that was probably true.

412
00:19:10,645 --> 00:19:11,385
That was true for me.

413
00:19:11,505 --> 00:19:12,385
Maybe it was true for you.

414
00:19:12,885 --> 00:19:20,885
There was something about Bitcoin that we felt like we discovered on our own that was what kind of flipped the switch for us.

415
00:19:21,545 --> 00:19:29,025
And so I think when these people hear a story like that, Bitcoin being a free market solution, that's why they're willing to tell you that you were right.

416
00:19:29,065 --> 00:19:30,825
Because they learned that on their own.

417
00:19:30,925 --> 00:19:31,085
Yeah.

418
00:19:31,085 --> 00:19:33,225
As opposed to like, well, Danny shoved it down my throat.

419
00:19:33,225 --> 00:19:34,385
And so I got it.

420
00:19:34,485 --> 00:19:39,585
We're just such prideful people that we want to go and we want to get the last piece of the puzzle on our own.

421
00:19:40,025 --> 00:19:45,085
And so planting the seeds for Bitcoin, that's why we say corny stuff like that.

422
00:19:45,165 --> 00:19:48,725
It's like, we've planted the seeds and maybe someday they'll become a Bitcoiner.

423
00:19:48,905 --> 00:19:50,125
That's actually how it works.

424
00:19:50,925 --> 00:19:53,185
And so, yeah, it's pretty cool to see that.

425
00:19:53,305 --> 00:19:58,585
And I think it's super rewarding when you do get that attaboy from the guy.

426
00:19:58,845 --> 00:19:59,045
Totally.

427
00:19:59,045 --> 00:20:04,225
And it's funny though, because it feels like the Bitcoin industry, I know people don't like that term, but I don't know what else you'd call it.

428
00:20:04,425 --> 00:20:08,945
But like the Bitcoin industry has got so mature where we have these like cool things doing frontier energy in Africa.

429
00:20:09,125 --> 00:20:14,865
There's like the stuff that Cash App and Square have done with allowing Bitcoin payments to every merchant in America.

430
00:20:15,965 --> 00:20:19,285
Like the Bitcoin backed loans, like the financial side has got way, way better.

431
00:20:19,465 --> 00:20:22,625
The stuff that strategy is doing, like everything feels like it's really grown up now.

432
00:20:23,125 --> 00:20:26,645
But Bitcoin is still quite small in the grand scheme of things.

433
00:20:26,645 --> 00:20:31,385
And like, how do you think it goes from here to being what we think Bitcoin will be?

434
00:20:31,725 --> 00:20:32,665
That's a good question.

435
00:20:32,765 --> 00:20:37,245
I wrote, I mean, this sounds like, I mean, shilling my books, but so the first book was

436
00:20:37,245 --> 00:20:37,965
Bitcoin evangelism.

437
00:20:38,025 --> 00:20:40,785
The second book was called Parallel.

438
00:20:41,165 --> 00:20:43,785
So Bitcoin evangelism was about helping people understand Bitcoin.

439
00:20:43,905 --> 00:20:45,925
If they didn't know it, there's plenty of books that you can do that with.

440
00:20:46,345 --> 00:20:51,645
Parallel is kind of a unique book in the Bitcoin space because it's kind of like the pitch for

441
00:20:51,645 --> 00:20:58,605
why we should start to use Bitcoin as money, as a unit or as a medium of exchange. And so it's the

442
00:20:58,605 --> 00:21:06,245
growth roadmap for money, like anything that becomes the standard in money goes through four

443
00:21:06,245 --> 00:21:11,445
distinct stages. I didn't create these stages. These are just the stages of money. It starts as

444
00:21:11,445 --> 00:21:15,905
a novelty. So if you take something like gold, gold was originally like when the first Egyptian

445
00:21:15,905 --> 00:21:20,465
or wasn't Egyptians, but we'll just say Egyptians because that sounds right. When the first Egyptian

446
00:21:20,465 --> 00:21:25,145
found a shiny gold rock. He just gave it to his wife because it looked pretty and you'd set it on

447
00:21:25,145 --> 00:21:29,965
the table and that's why she wanted it. But then enough Egyptians did that and they saw it on other

448
00:21:29,965 --> 00:21:33,505
people's entry tables. They're like, oh, you have a, you have that, that gold rock and you have that

449
00:21:33,505 --> 00:21:38,725
gold rock. Then that's when it goes from novelty. And then it moves into store of value because

450
00:21:38,725 --> 00:21:43,265
everybody says, oh, other people want this too. And so I'm actually going to try and collect some

451
00:21:43,265 --> 00:21:47,045
more of those gold rocks because I realized that other people want them. And now there's this market

452
00:21:47,045 --> 00:21:52,485
demand for it. So you go from novelty, the new thing, it's a collectible or whatever it is to

453
00:21:52,485 --> 00:21:57,345
it's a store of value because other people want it. And then the stage after that is medium of

454
00:21:57,345 --> 00:22:01,965
exchange. The stage after that is unit of account. So unit of account being like, this is what we do

455
00:22:01,965 --> 00:22:06,605
our books in. It's like the world is on a fiat standard right now. What's your net worth? Well,

456
00:22:06,605 --> 00:22:11,545
it doesn't matter. You could have, you know, a hundred kilos of gold, but we don't say you're

457
00:22:11,545 --> 00:22:15,825
worth a hundred kilos of gold. You're worth X amount of dollars. You're worth X amount of pounds.

458
00:22:15,825 --> 00:22:24,245
Right. And so it's that's those are the stages of money where we're at right now is pretty undeniable that we're in the store value phase of Bitcoin.

459
00:22:24,245 --> 00:22:32,725
It was in the novelty phase when you got the two thousand or the two pieces for 10,000 Bitcoin, when you could go to the Bitcoin faucet and you can get five Bitcoin a day for solving a capsic.

460
00:22:33,605 --> 00:22:41,545
Like that was the novelty phase. We were playing around with Bitcoin at the time. Right now, companies are trying to hoard Bitcoin or countries are trying to hoard Bitcoin.

461
00:22:41,545 --> 00:22:59,605
That's clearly the store value phase. Well, the medium of exchanges, that was the whole pitch of parallel. It was like, here's a case for why you should spend Bitcoin. I'll tell you what, the most pushback I've gotten in the Bitcoin space was asking people to spend their Bitcoin because Bitcoiners inherently are savers. We plan for the future. We talk about low time preference.

462
00:22:59,605 --> 00:23:08,465
And so there's something that feels like it's in conflict with spending sats to get a haircut or to have my computer fixed and pay in sats.

463
00:23:08,865 --> 00:23:15,765
People feel a conflict in that because we've trained ourselves to think of Bitcoin only as a store of value.

464
00:23:15,885 --> 00:23:22,145
So to me, the future of Bitcoin happens if we don't allow Bitcoin to stay in the store of value phase.

465
00:23:22,585 --> 00:23:24,965
It's OK to have a savings account and a checking account.

466
00:23:25,085 --> 00:23:26,965
I mean, that's how we do fiat right now.

467
00:23:26,965 --> 00:23:29,805
Now, I think, and Jack Dorsey said the same thing.

468
00:23:29,885 --> 00:23:33,925
He goes, somebody asked him in an interview, how does Bitcoin die?

469
00:23:34,305 --> 00:23:38,385
And he goes, Bitcoin dies, and maybe this is true, maybe it's not, but he goes, Bitcoin

470
00:23:38,385 --> 00:23:43,885
dies if we fail to use it as money, not as a savings technology, but as a form of money.

471
00:23:43,885 --> 00:23:49,045
And he's the one that's, I mean, he's pushing the limits as far as like merchant adoption

472
00:23:49,045 --> 00:23:49,745
and things like that.

473
00:23:49,805 --> 00:23:53,145
So he's really putting his technology where his mouth is on it.

474
00:23:53,145 --> 00:24:00,445
And I think that the people who've been the most enriched by Bitcoin were the people who saw one of those phases ahead.

475
00:24:00,825 --> 00:24:07,405
Like if you were in the novelty phase and everybody's, you know, and Laszlo, when he did the two pizzas for 10,000 Bitcoin, he's actually a genius in doing that.

476
00:24:07,465 --> 00:24:10,045
That's a great story for anybody that like makes fun of him for that.

477
00:24:10,165 --> 00:24:10,825
It's dumb.

478
00:24:10,985 --> 00:24:17,945
The other thing people don't know about that story, which I think this is true at least, is that Satoshi was trying to encourage him to, because he was basically getting too much Bitcoin.

479
00:24:17,945 --> 00:24:20,425
He was GPU mining and he was getting all the Bitcoin.

480
00:24:20,425 --> 00:24:23,545
and Satoshi said, hey, you got to find ways to get this out.

481
00:24:23,865 --> 00:24:26,705
And so incredible story when you dig into that.

482
00:24:26,805 --> 00:24:28,445
And yeah, I think that's true as well.

483
00:24:28,605 --> 00:24:31,625
But anybody that was treating Bitcoin as a store of value

484
00:24:31,625 --> 00:24:33,745
when it was in the novelty phase,

485
00:24:34,265 --> 00:24:35,885
you became excessively wealthy

486
00:24:35,885 --> 00:24:38,825
because you took those 10,000 Bitcoin and held onto them.

487
00:24:38,865 --> 00:24:40,065
So you were thinking one stage ahead.

488
00:24:40,325 --> 00:24:42,525
I think the same thing is true for any Bitcoiners

489
00:24:42,525 --> 00:24:43,685
that are trying to find the alpha.

490
00:24:43,845 --> 00:24:45,885
And that's part of the problem, I think,

491
00:24:45,885 --> 00:24:49,105
is when the knock on conferences is that,

492
00:24:49,105 --> 00:24:54,765
oh, there's so many altcoiners there. There's so much noise or whatever. And maybe that's true,

493
00:24:54,845 --> 00:25:01,925
but the problem is people are trying to find the alpha. Okay, Bitcoin's 75,000 or 100,000 or 150,000,

494
00:25:02,045 --> 00:25:05,745
so I'm going to buy the XRP. I'm going to buy this. No, the alpha is still in Bitcoin,

495
00:25:06,045 --> 00:25:10,005
but it's just by treating Bitcoin as money. It's by treating it as a medium of exchange.

496
00:25:10,165 --> 00:25:17,365
And so I think if that message becomes popular enough that Bitcoin moves a tremendous step

497
00:25:17,365 --> 00:25:21,125
forward. And that's probably the biggest step forward that Bitcoin could ever take is if people

498
00:25:21,125 --> 00:25:27,125
want to transact in commerce with Bitcoin. And I think too many Bitcoiners unfortunately think that

499
00:25:27,125 --> 00:25:34,285
that would take away from their wealth because it's like, it seems obvious. If I spend my sats,

500
00:25:35,085 --> 00:25:39,545
that I'm going to lose sats. But this is just not understanding opportunity cost and the idea of

501
00:25:39,545 --> 00:25:45,445
spend and replace. And that's absolutely right. And I think it even goes a step beyond that

502
00:25:45,445 --> 00:25:54,225
Because as soon as I spend my sats with somebody, I've now developed an economic connection with somebody who also transact in sats.

503
00:25:54,565 --> 00:25:59,925
So my first experience with this was a few years ago when I found my barber on Club Orange.

504
00:26:00,585 --> 00:26:06,825
I went I traveled further to this barber because simply because he he accepted sats for a haircut.

505
00:26:06,825 --> 00:26:10,705
Yeah. And so one, that's the Bitcoin cheat code.

506
00:26:10,705 --> 00:26:15,705
that's the, you know, people will come from further away because they want to support a Bitcoiner.

507
00:26:16,505 --> 00:26:20,625
But I dropped off some of my books with him. And I said, here, man, just like sell some of these and

508
00:26:20,625 --> 00:26:24,445
you take the money from it. And he ended up saying, look, I'm going to sell them, but I'm

509
00:26:24,445 --> 00:26:29,165
going to send you the sats for them. And so I paid whatever. I think by the time I was done with my

510
00:26:29,165 --> 00:26:34,085
tip and everything, I think I paid like $40 for the haircut in sats, the equivalent. And I ended

511
00:26:34,085 --> 00:26:39,605
up, he ended up selling like $120 worth of books for me. So I went out intention with the intention

512
00:26:39,605 --> 00:26:43,705
that I'm going to spend some sats into the parallel Bitcoin economy. And it turned out that

513
00:26:43,705 --> 00:26:48,745
that economic connection actually connected me to his other clients who also spend Bitcoin,

514
00:26:48,905 --> 00:26:53,865
who also bought a book at the same time. And so my $40 expenditure actually netted me,

515
00:26:54,245 --> 00:27:00,005
you know, or brought in $120 worth of sats. So it's not that that happens every single time,

516
00:27:00,005 --> 00:27:05,185
but when you develop economic connections within Bitcoin, you brought up opportunity costs. Yeah,

517
00:27:05,185 --> 00:27:20,170
the opportunity of the cost of not spending your your stats maybe maybe closes you off to other bitcoiners who spend bitcoin And so if you want to be at the forefront of the Bitcoin economy it kind of behooves us to spend some sats now And like you said spend and replace

518
00:27:20,170 --> 00:27:24,730
is like the safest method to go. Just if you're going to spend $40 on a haircut and pay for it in

519
00:27:24,730 --> 00:27:30,870
cash, just buy $40 of Bitcoin, spend it in sats, but you've now unlocked a relationship that's a

520
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:36,710
pretty anti-fragile economic connection for you. That's very cool. So I did a panel yesterday with

521
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:41,010
Jack Mallers and Miles Suter. And we were talking a lot about Bitcoin as payments. And

522
00:27:41,010 --> 00:27:46,330
one of the things that Jack pushed back on a little was like the idea that holding Bitcoin

523
00:27:46,330 --> 00:27:51,830
is still using Bitcoin. And also like the idea of borrowing against Bitcoin and spending in a

524
00:27:51,830 --> 00:27:56,310
depreciating currency also can be like the trade. Like, why do you think using Bitcoin specifically

525
00:27:56,310 --> 00:28:00,610
as money? Is it for that reason? Is it that it basically expands your monetary network,

526
00:28:00,710 --> 00:28:04,970
your like personal monetary network? That's exactly why I do it is because if I spend,

527
00:28:04,970 --> 00:28:06,710
And those are valid methods.

528
00:28:06,910 --> 00:28:10,250
And it's like, man, I think we can race a few different ways to get to the same destination.

529
00:28:10,250 --> 00:28:11,910
So I do not knock them.

530
00:28:12,090 --> 00:28:14,690
And those guys are pushing the goalposts for Bitcoin.

531
00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:17,790
So that might be the cheap way to do it.

532
00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:23,010
The way that the little guy like me can do it is, I think, by spending Bitcoins, by spending some sats.

533
00:28:24,010 --> 00:28:30,770
And yes, every one of those community connections I get, it's a signal of this is a real one.

534
00:28:30,770 --> 00:28:35,550
Like as, as soon as I've transacted and I've, I've done a lightning transaction with somebody

535
00:28:35,550 --> 00:28:38,390
and they've accepted a lightning transaction is like, that's a real one.

536
00:28:38,490 --> 00:28:38,690
Yeah.

537
00:28:38,690 --> 00:28:39,630
I know that guy's legit.

538
00:28:39,630 --> 00:28:42,230
And it's, it's, it acts as a filter for my community.

539
00:28:42,790 --> 00:28:46,390
Um, and there, there's, there's all sorts of tangential benefits to that.

540
00:28:46,490 --> 00:28:51,130
I'd say probably the easiest way to orange pill somebody is to send them a thousand sats,

541
00:28:51,130 --> 00:28:57,150
like take download a custodial, uh, like lightning wallet where like you put in your,

542
00:28:57,270 --> 00:28:58,890
all your KYC, it can be like, whatever it can be.

543
00:28:58,890 --> 00:29:00,990
it doesn't have to be protected at all,

544
00:29:01,090 --> 00:29:03,390
but just download whatever the easiest lightning wallet

545
00:29:03,390 --> 00:29:04,350
is for you to download

546
00:29:04,350 --> 00:29:05,990
so that I can send you a thousand sats

547
00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:10,210
because I can try to explain the double spend problem

548
00:29:10,210 --> 00:29:11,310
and what Satoshi solved,

549
00:29:11,310 --> 00:29:13,550
or I can just show you that, look it,

550
00:29:13,810 --> 00:29:16,350
like I just sent you this money without permission

551
00:29:16,350 --> 00:29:21,690
and we transacted without the traditional financial rails

552
00:29:21,690 --> 00:29:23,050
that the rest of the world uses.

553
00:29:23,230 --> 00:29:25,890
And so whether it's like orange pilling somebody

554
00:29:25,890 --> 00:29:26,710
in that method

555
00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:28,830
or it's stimulating an economic connection,

556
00:29:28,890 --> 00:29:35,010
I think both are valid and both allow, again, the regular little guy to kind of push Bitcoin

557
00:29:35,010 --> 00:29:36,510
forward just an inch or two.

558
00:29:36,610 --> 00:29:39,910
But if enough of us move it an inch or two, I think we go pretty far.

559
00:29:40,430 --> 00:29:43,770
How do you think the sort of merchant adoption of Bitcoin will go from here?

560
00:29:43,810 --> 00:29:48,370
Because we've seen for years now, like Bitcoiners will go into places and try and convince their

561
00:29:48,370 --> 00:29:49,290
local stores to take Bitcoin.

562
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:52,450
And they're probably the only ones going in there and actually spending in Bitcoin.

563
00:29:53,010 --> 00:29:56,770
Does this actually need to be flipped on its head where instead of the person trying to

564
00:29:56,770 --> 00:30:00,570
buy something demanding they accept Bitcoin, the merchant demanding they're paid in Bitcoin?

565
00:30:01,570 --> 00:30:07,930
I mean, I think if you've got a cool enough business, then you could probably do that.

566
00:30:07,930 --> 00:30:19,330
It's just it's going to be it's going to be a risk because, yeah, the Bitcoin has a flavor to it and some people don't like it.

567
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:26,510
Right. And so you might have you might have some of your clients that that just don't know Bitcoin and that that's off putting to them.

568
00:30:26,510 --> 00:30:29,310
So I say, I actually speak on this from experience.

569
00:30:29,310 --> 00:30:32,610
I have a chain of wellness studios called Salt and Light in Southern California.

570
00:30:32,610 --> 00:30:35,990
So if you ever want to come and do cold plunge or salt rooms or any of that kind of stuff,

571
00:30:36,050 --> 00:30:37,770
come on in when you're in Southern California.

572
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:40,090
Did you give me a hat like three years ago?

573
00:30:40,150 --> 00:30:40,350
Yeah.

574
00:30:40,790 --> 00:30:42,270
I didn't realize that was you.

575
00:30:42,350 --> 00:30:43,390
I hadn't put two and two together.

576
00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:45,030
Pacific Bitcoin, I think it was.

577
00:30:45,150 --> 00:30:45,290
Yeah.

578
00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:46,650
I still wear that hat sometimes.

579
00:30:46,990 --> 00:30:47,910
It's a good hat.

580
00:30:48,070 --> 00:30:48,350
There we go.

581
00:30:48,350 --> 00:30:48,790
It's a good hat.

582
00:30:49,070 --> 00:30:49,950
I appreciate that.

583
00:30:50,170 --> 00:30:51,590
Well, thanks for repping the brand.

584
00:30:52,070 --> 00:30:55,350
But anyway, so yeah, so we've been doing this.

585
00:30:55,350 --> 00:31:00,330
and we've accepted Bitcoin for eight or nine years now.

586
00:31:00,450 --> 00:31:02,510
And I'd say the people that have paid in Bitcoin,

587
00:31:02,650 --> 00:31:04,310
I mean, I could probably count them on a couple of hands.

588
00:31:05,190 --> 00:31:07,650
And now we've never, we've encouraged,

589
00:31:07,790 --> 00:31:08,630
we've gone different methods.

590
00:31:08,730 --> 00:31:10,290
We've gone the discount method where like,

591
00:31:10,350 --> 00:31:13,130
hey, you can get a discount if you pay in Bitcoin.

592
00:31:13,550 --> 00:31:16,350
We've also gone the, and I've heard this,

593
00:31:16,570 --> 00:31:18,530
people encourage this is like,

594
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:21,810
no, you charge a fee to pay in fiat, right?

595
00:31:21,830 --> 00:31:22,050
Yeah, it's a premium.

596
00:31:22,210 --> 00:31:23,730
This is what Parker loves this.

597
00:31:23,890 --> 00:31:24,430
Yeah, okay.

598
00:31:24,430 --> 00:31:27,910
So yeah, so like, and I think that there's something to that.

599
00:31:27,950 --> 00:31:33,390
That might be the methodology is you still give them the optionality, but you just show

600
00:31:33,390 --> 00:31:35,610
the Bitcoin price and then the fiat price.

601
00:31:36,810 --> 00:31:42,210
If we can lever our businesses in that way, then perhaps we're on to something.

602
00:31:42,450 --> 00:31:42,650
Yeah.

603
00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:45,830
You said Bitcoin has a flavor to it.

604
00:31:46,490 --> 00:31:50,510
Do you think that when you say that, are you kind of saying it's associated with like

605
00:31:50,510 --> 00:31:51,390
Trump, the Republicans?

606
00:31:51,610 --> 00:31:52,530
Is that what you mean?

607
00:31:52,530 --> 00:31:53,090
Yeah.

608
00:31:53,090 --> 00:31:56,570
Yeah, well, unfortunately, I think it has a different flavor for different people.

609
00:31:56,950 --> 00:32:00,170
People project onto it their different biases.

610
00:32:01,930 --> 00:32:03,050
The flavor has changed.

611
00:32:03,130 --> 00:32:04,430
I think now you're right.

612
00:32:04,490 --> 00:32:09,050
I think the majority opinion is that it's tied to Trump or tied to MAGA or whatever.

613
00:32:09,050 --> 00:32:14,810
And so if people don't like that flavor, then they're going to resent Bitcoin for it.

614
00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:20,030
Back in the day, it was, that's online pirates.

615
00:32:20,290 --> 00:32:22,710
And that's the cypherpunks.

616
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:26,370
and I don't want to have, you know, I'm a mainstream financial guy. And so I don't want

617
00:32:26,370 --> 00:32:30,110
anything to do with that. Actually, there was, I mean, we used to say this all the time because

618
00:32:30,110 --> 00:32:33,790
you've been around, you've been around Bitcoin for, for a long time. And so you, you remember

619
00:32:33,790 --> 00:32:38,370
that the term was reputational risk, right? All the mainstream guys were worried about

620
00:32:38,370 --> 00:32:44,410
reputational risk. And that's, and that's true. That's maybe been dampened a little bit because

621
00:32:44,410 --> 00:32:48,270
there's, you know, as soon as black rock gets in the game, you can be like, well, Larry Fink did it.

622
00:32:48,270 --> 00:32:53,770
Right. But but within your firm, you might have been the black sheep if you if you did that.

623
00:32:53,770 --> 00:32:55,730
And certainly you could have put your career at risk.

624
00:32:55,890 --> 00:32:57,190
And so I think the flavor.

625
00:32:57,350 --> 00:32:59,970
Yeah, the flavor is very like Trump flavored, I think, at this point.

626
00:33:00,850 --> 00:33:03,490
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627
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628
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631
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657
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661
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680
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one of the cool things on this sort of merchant adoption and just general adoption of bitcoin as

681
00:35:37,970 --> 00:35:42,650
a payment method that i think we've seen did you see david marcus's announcement no so i just did

682
00:35:42,650 --> 00:35:47,050
a show with him he's done a really cool thing which is i think he calls it grid global accounts

683
00:35:47,050 --> 00:35:52,810
and what he's built is this sort of plumbing infrastructure that will allow wallets to use

684
00:35:52,810 --> 00:35:57,310
this and you can basically have you'll have a visa mastercard that you can spend from

685
00:35:57,310 --> 00:35:59,230
actually no it's just Visa

686
00:35:59,230 --> 00:36:00,350
a Visa you can spend from

687
00:36:00,350 --> 00:36:02,010
you have a Bitcoin account

688
00:36:02,010 --> 00:36:03,270
dollars in there

689
00:36:03,270 --> 00:36:04,110
other fiat currencies

690
00:36:04,110 --> 00:36:04,850
stable coins

691
00:36:04,850 --> 00:36:07,470
and you can completely decide

692
00:36:07,470 --> 00:36:08,230
how you pay

693
00:36:08,230 --> 00:36:09,710
and the merchant can decide

694
00:36:09,710 --> 00:36:10,810
exactly what they receive

695
00:36:10,810 --> 00:36:12,070
and Square do a similar thing

696
00:36:12,070 --> 00:36:12,870
where if you pay in Bitcoin

697
00:36:12,870 --> 00:36:14,090
the merchant can receive dollars

698
00:36:14,090 --> 00:36:15,870
or receive 90% dollars

699
00:36:15,870 --> 00:36:16,670
and 10% Bitcoin

700
00:36:16,670 --> 00:36:17,930
and these are the things

701
00:36:17,930 --> 00:36:18,730
that I think are really going to

702
00:36:18,730 --> 00:36:19,670
break through these barriers

703
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:20,170
that we're seeing

704
00:36:20,170 --> 00:36:22,890
so in terms of

705
00:36:22,890 --> 00:36:24,730
do you want to get into

706
00:36:24,730 --> 00:36:25,510
the wellness stuff?

707
00:36:26,010 --> 00:36:26,670
I love it

708
00:36:26,670 --> 00:36:27,130
that's yeah

709
00:36:27,130 --> 00:36:30,950
Because this is one of the really interesting things in Bitcoin is that like, we start off as

710
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:34,050
these weird Bitcoiners who come together because we're Bitcoiners. And then there's so many other

711
00:36:34,050 --> 00:36:37,850
things that have come out of that. Like obviously the health and wellness thing has been a huge one.

712
00:36:38,370 --> 00:36:44,950
Like, was that what you were doing before Bitcoin? Yeah. Yeah. So I started my wellness company in

713
00:36:44,950 --> 00:36:49,750
2008. It was just, I'd just gotten out of college. Terrible time to start a business.

714
00:36:49,890 --> 00:36:56,910
It was a terrible time to start a business. So, so Club Orange launched the week that FTX crashed

715
00:36:56,910 --> 00:37:01,230
at that Pacific Bitcoin. So the only times I've been associated with like launching companies are

716
00:37:01,230 --> 00:37:04,550
just in like the worst condition. So what's the opposite of a Midas touch?

717
00:37:05,250 --> 00:37:10,670
That's right. That's a, I've, I've never framed it that way. That that's pretty good. So if you

718
00:37:10,670 --> 00:37:15,690
have any business ideas, like do not, do not, do not ask me to launch it with you. Um, but,

719
00:37:15,810 --> 00:37:19,490
but anyways, we, we, we made it through and some, maybe some of the best companies are born in,

720
00:37:19,490 --> 00:37:25,970
in hard times. Um, but I grew up in a, in a family where, uh, my, my dad died of a drug overdose,

721
00:37:25,970 --> 00:37:32,030
prescription drug overdose and not to make it all like you know about that but that i think it

722
00:37:32,030 --> 00:37:36,450
painted my view that something in the system is broken because i remember at one point i think he

723
00:37:36,450 --> 00:37:41,150
had 12 doctors and i thought like oh he's going to 12 doctors so like that's a lot of medical

724
00:37:41,150 --> 00:37:46,770
attention well i found out after he died and we're like going through things it's like this was 12

725
00:37:46,770 --> 00:37:51,030
doctors that were giving 12 prescriptions it was there it was he was he was he was cycling through

726
00:37:51,030 --> 00:37:56,910
doctors and nobody was trying to fix them. Um, it was, he, it was, it was his, it was his gravy

727
00:37:56,910 --> 00:38:01,050
train of, of prescriptions and opiates and things like that. And so can I ask when, when that was,

728
00:38:01,070 --> 00:38:06,130
when he died? So that was 2006 when he, when he died. Because obviously like in the last,

729
00:38:06,130 --> 00:38:10,390
you know, decade or so, there's been the huge thing about the opioid epidemic in, in America.

730
00:38:10,570 --> 00:38:13,990
Was this before that had really kicked off or was this, this a part of the same problem?

731
00:38:13,990 --> 00:38:18,790
This is when it was happening. And I don't think it was getting the press that, uh, cause yeah,

732
00:38:18,790 --> 00:38:23,550
Doctors weren't being scrutinized for, for, you know, just, there was no standards around.

733
00:38:23,670 --> 00:38:27,270
You could come in and say you have an achy knee and get, get opiates.

734
00:38:27,330 --> 00:38:31,050
I mean, I remember I, so I, I, I, I'm a black belt in Brazilian jujitsu.

735
00:38:31,050 --> 00:38:33,790
I trained, I fought MMA for a long time.

736
00:38:34,410 --> 00:38:39,030
Just weird, fun stories that, but, but I, I fractured a rib one time.

737
00:38:39,130 --> 00:38:42,210
I remember going in, this is probably 2012 at the time or 2013.

738
00:38:42,470 --> 00:38:46,870
I remember going into the doctor and, and I just said, Hey, I just need to know what's

739
00:38:46,870 --> 00:38:47,590
wrong with my rib.

740
00:38:47,650 --> 00:38:48,570
I don't want anything else.

741
00:38:48,570 --> 00:38:50,470
He goes, oh, ribs are really painful.

742
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:52,330
He goes, what are you at on the pain meter?

743
00:38:52,490 --> 00:38:54,370
And it was probably like an eight or a nine

744
00:38:54,370 --> 00:38:55,530
because it was pretty bad.

745
00:38:55,890 --> 00:38:56,730
I told him a three.

746
00:38:56,810 --> 00:38:57,430
I said, it's a three.

747
00:38:57,510 --> 00:38:59,050
I can deal with it because I knew he would say.

748
00:38:59,330 --> 00:39:00,430
And so he goes, you know what?

749
00:39:00,470 --> 00:39:01,910
Let me just give you some Norcos anyways.

750
00:39:02,210 --> 00:39:04,670
And that was me telling him that I'm not in much pain

751
00:39:04,670 --> 00:39:08,270
and I have a family history of abusive pain meds.

752
00:39:08,370 --> 00:39:10,590
And he was still just to be safe.

753
00:39:10,730 --> 00:39:13,070
Like that was the decorum.

754
00:39:13,130 --> 00:39:16,030
That was the standard was let's just be safe on that side.

755
00:39:16,110 --> 00:39:17,650
I mean, it was like the least safe method

756
00:39:17,650 --> 00:39:18,310
you could possibly do.

757
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:19,330
I actually had a similar thing.

758
00:39:19,510 --> 00:39:23,170
So I did my ACL and I went in for a knee reconstruction

759
00:39:23,170 --> 00:39:25,930
and there they have like the thing you can press on the bed

760
00:39:25,930 --> 00:39:27,350
to just like administer as much you want.

761
00:39:27,670 --> 00:39:28,850
And at first I was like, this might be fun.

762
00:39:28,950 --> 00:39:30,790
So I was pressing it a few times, felt dreadful.

763
00:39:31,070 --> 00:39:32,630
And then when I was leaving again, they were like,

764
00:39:32,690 --> 00:39:33,610
cause it can be very painful,

765
00:39:33,610 --> 00:39:35,450
but it really depends on how the surgery goes.

766
00:39:35,490 --> 00:39:36,430
And they're like, how sore is it?

767
00:39:36,430 --> 00:39:37,330
I was like, it's actually fine.

768
00:39:37,350 --> 00:39:38,610
Like I'm not in much pain at all.

769
00:39:38,950 --> 00:39:39,850
And they gave me, they were like,

770
00:39:39,910 --> 00:39:41,310
I can't remember exactly which drug it was,

771
00:39:41,330 --> 00:39:41,850
but it was an opioid.

772
00:39:41,930 --> 00:39:43,170
And they were like, here's something to take home with you.

773
00:39:43,170 --> 00:39:44,170
I just put them straight in the bed.

774
00:39:44,890 --> 00:39:45,250
Yeah, man.

775
00:39:45,370 --> 00:39:46,990
When you got, when you got a family

776
00:39:48,310 --> 00:39:53,450
and stuff. It's just like, it's too easy for that. And it's like, it was, especially then it was

777
00:39:53,450 --> 00:39:58,170
socially acceptable. I mean, I remember, uh, seeing, you know, my dad, I would go to visit

778
00:39:58,170 --> 00:40:02,490
him at work and, and he would, uh, mention to his secretary, he's like, Oh, can you bring me my,

779
00:40:02,810 --> 00:40:05,870
bring me my meds? Like, cause it was the afternoon or whatever. It was just like,

780
00:40:05,870 --> 00:40:10,130
that was just like the office, how the office function was dysfunctional to the max. Anyway.

781
00:40:10,330 --> 00:40:14,430
So that was probably the first time that I recognized like, gosh, man, like systems,

782
00:40:14,430 --> 00:40:18,550
you grow up thinking systems are built a certain way because they work.

783
00:40:18,610 --> 00:40:19,810
Like we're sitting in this building.

784
00:40:19,930 --> 00:40:23,330
We're sitting in like this, you know, like tens of stories up in the air.

785
00:40:23,470 --> 00:40:27,090
And we've just kind of trusted that the people that constructed this building

786
00:40:27,090 --> 00:40:28,630
did what they were supposed to do.

787
00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:32,850
Like we can't operate in life unless we kind of trust in things.

788
00:40:33,010 --> 00:40:33,750
You have to trust systems.

789
00:40:33,810 --> 00:40:34,910
You have to trust systems.

790
00:40:35,310 --> 00:40:39,170
At the same time, those systems could have been built terribly.

791
00:40:39,450 --> 00:40:41,310
And so some of the systems, I think that's what Bitcoiners,

792
00:40:41,310 --> 00:40:44,110
That's why there's this cross section between Bitcoiners

793
00:40:44,110 --> 00:40:46,450
and healthy diet or Bitcoiners and activity

794
00:40:46,450 --> 00:40:57,515
or whatever it happens to be Because we started to see the cracks COVID was a big one for a lot of people but we have these kind of moments in our lives where man the system that I grew up

795
00:40:57,615 --> 00:40:59,575
it was like finding out Santa Claus wasn't real.

796
00:40:59,695 --> 00:41:03,175
And I think that's kind of what was the eye-opening moment

797
00:41:03,175 --> 00:41:05,175
that, okay, there's maybe other things

798
00:41:05,175 --> 00:41:05,915
that I should question.

799
00:41:06,015 --> 00:41:07,535
And so that's where I got into the health

800
00:41:07,535 --> 00:41:09,275
and wellness movement was just like,

801
00:41:09,315 --> 00:41:11,115
I wanna help people's bodies heal naturally.

802
00:41:11,255 --> 00:41:13,895
I firmly believe that we were created in such a way

803
00:41:13,895 --> 00:41:16,595
that we have the ability, we're kind of like Wolverine,

804
00:41:16,595 --> 00:41:21,095
but like in slow motion, you know, like if I get injured, my body, it's kind of crazy. Like I can

805
00:41:21,095 --> 00:41:25,635
get cut and it can literally heal back together where that sounds like magic, but it's actually

806
00:41:25,635 --> 00:41:29,415
the way our body works. I just need to make sure that I'm getting out of the way of, you know,

807
00:41:29,415 --> 00:41:33,355
with, with, with toxins and with poisons and things like that. And so that was kind of the,

808
00:41:33,355 --> 00:41:36,155
the, the groundwork for why we got into health and wellness.

809
00:41:36,415 --> 00:41:39,295
Can I ask you a bit about this, this like opioid epidemic? Cause I'm sure obviously

810
00:41:39,295 --> 00:41:44,975
you've been personally affected by it. Um, what do you think is driving this? Cause like,

811
00:41:44,975 --> 00:41:46,755
obviously you hear people talk about big pharma.

812
00:41:47,075 --> 00:41:49,255
What are the broken incentives that have led to this?

813
00:41:50,755 --> 00:41:51,655
Good Lord, man.

814
00:41:51,775 --> 00:41:55,575
I think it's the most heartbreaking part of it

815
00:41:55,575 --> 00:41:56,755
because I think it's really easy

816
00:41:56,755 --> 00:41:58,375
just to place blame on pharma.

817
00:41:58,615 --> 00:42:01,295
And that's clearly, that's the top of the,

818
00:42:01,635 --> 00:42:02,935
whether you want to say it's basically the perimeter.

819
00:42:03,195 --> 00:42:04,295
It's part of the story.

820
00:42:04,375 --> 00:42:07,055
It's where all the financial incentive comes from.

821
00:42:07,915 --> 00:42:10,815
But the most heartbreaking was the complicitness

822
00:42:10,815 --> 00:42:12,295
of the doctors.

823
00:42:12,515 --> 00:42:14,095
The doctors willing to participate.

824
00:42:14,095 --> 00:42:32,635
And when you start to get into doctor's incentives, it's like, wait, if you're a pediatrician and for a very long time, if you had a certain uptake of vaccinations in your practice or as an adult doctor, as a regular general practitioner, if you had a certain uptake of pain meds in your practice, you had certain quotas.

825
00:42:32,975 --> 00:42:34,595
And you would get things like cruises.

826
00:42:34,795 --> 00:42:36,815
And people, if they want to fact check this, go look.

827
00:42:36,895 --> 00:42:39,335
Go look it up in ChatGPT, Google, whatever.

828
00:42:40,055 --> 00:42:41,235
Doctors incentives.

829
00:42:41,355 --> 00:42:42,895
They actually had sales incentives.

830
00:42:42,895 --> 00:42:49,155
So they were essentially outposts or like sales agents for pharmaceutical companies.

831
00:42:49,295 --> 00:42:52,675
So you go to a doctor thinking they're there to help you heal.

832
00:42:52,915 --> 00:42:57,755
But that guy's financial incentives, the things that are actually going to put a little extra

833
00:42:57,755 --> 00:43:02,535
money on the end of his paycheck are going to be the add-ons that are, it's not the co-pay

834
00:43:02,535 --> 00:43:03,135
for the visit.

835
00:43:03,215 --> 00:43:04,915
It's not what insurance is paying for the visit.

836
00:43:05,015 --> 00:43:07,375
It's not the cast when you get a broken arm.

837
00:43:07,775 --> 00:43:12,535
It's the real incentives and the way that he rises in prominence in that industry is

838
00:43:12,535 --> 00:43:17,515
feeding the beast, which is in that case for, for those doctors that my dad was going to,

839
00:43:18,035 --> 00:43:23,035
their, their, their flash sale was always on opiates. And, and that was the heartbreaking

840
00:43:23,035 --> 00:43:30,035
part. So do you think these docs, cause like my, I've got a young daughter and, um, like during,

841
00:43:30,175 --> 00:43:33,495
I really have never really had to go to the doctors very much touch wood, like, but this

842
00:43:33,495 --> 00:43:37,175
was a time when I did like, because during pregnancy, you have to go for checkups and all

843
00:43:37,175 --> 00:43:39,775
this sort of stuff. And once the baby's born, there's lots of things you have to go and do.

844
00:43:39,775 --> 00:43:43,935
and one thing I found is we used multiple GPs through this

845
00:43:43,935 --> 00:43:47,555
and obviously there's some amazing ones out there

846
00:43:47,555 --> 00:43:50,895
but we encountered some that were really giving terrible advice

847
00:43:50,895 --> 00:43:53,515
and I don't think that was out of sort of negligent.

848
00:43:53,615 --> 00:43:54,795
I don't think they were meaning to.

849
00:43:55,395 --> 00:43:57,155
Like what do you think drove the doctors?

850
00:43:57,235 --> 00:43:58,635
Do you think they knew they were doing wrong

851
00:43:58,635 --> 00:43:59,915
and wanted to hit the sales quotas

852
00:43:59,915 --> 00:44:01,915
or do you think they thought they were trying to solve the problem?

853
00:44:02,295 --> 00:44:06,415
No, I think that their medical school is not about

854
00:44:06,415 --> 00:44:08,015
here's how the immune system works.

855
00:44:08,015 --> 00:44:12,735
their medical school is that this drug is the immune system.

856
00:44:13,035 --> 00:44:14,375
Like this is how this works.

857
00:44:14,495 --> 00:44:17,795
And that's just for the vertical of immunity, right?

858
00:44:18,015 --> 00:44:21,455
This is how, this is a well baby check.

859
00:44:21,755 --> 00:44:23,675
This is when you're supposed to take your baby

860
00:44:23,675 --> 00:44:25,815
to a six week well baby check and a two month

861
00:44:25,815 --> 00:44:29,655
and a whatever, you know, these different timeframes.

862
00:44:30,115 --> 00:44:30,875
Well, if you look at it,

863
00:44:31,095 --> 00:44:34,955
those are all based around the administration of drugs.

864
00:44:35,135 --> 00:44:36,695
Like you come in for your well baby check,

865
00:44:36,695 --> 00:44:41,515
Like not to see like we could take its pulse and we can check its blood pressure and all that kind of stuff.

866
00:44:41,615 --> 00:44:43,615
But it's to administer a series of drugs.

867
00:44:43,775 --> 00:44:47,295
And so I don't think that they think there's anything wrong.

868
00:44:47,395 --> 00:44:53,475
I think they've been thoroughly convinced through many, many years of schooling that this is how Western medicine works.

869
00:44:53,475 --> 00:45:02,595
And this is just this is the best and latest we have from the scientific data because all of that is backed by some form of scientific data.

870
00:45:02,735 --> 00:45:06,015
Now, scientific data is there's problems with it.

871
00:45:06,015 --> 00:45:14,015
But nonetheless, everything has a journal associated with it, a doctor associated with it, a textbook that says that this is the truth.

872
00:45:14,455 --> 00:45:17,615
And so when – think about it.

873
00:45:17,755 --> 00:45:19,415
Like we're promoting Bitcoin.

874
00:45:19,795 --> 00:45:24,695
And in so doing of the promotion of Bitcoin, we kind of enrich ourselves, right?

875
00:45:24,695 --> 00:45:26,635
Because as Bitcoin grows, the cult grows.

876
00:45:26,635 --> 00:45:29,455
And we actually – Bitcoin grows and we become wealthy.

877
00:45:30,095 --> 00:45:34,315
And we think we're doing something good and it's simultaneously enriching us.

878
00:45:34,335 --> 00:45:35,735
And I actually think we're doing something good.

879
00:45:35,735 --> 00:45:38,355
There's nothing wrong with being enriched while you do something good.

880
00:45:38,455 --> 00:45:42,975
Doctors are just convinced that they're being enriched while they're doing something good.

881
00:45:43,635 --> 00:45:45,335
I tweeted this out recently.

882
00:45:45,515 --> 00:45:59,375
It was something to the effect of the scariest thing that we could encounter would be to follow the world's most evil man around for 24 hours only to realize he's kind of likable and we totally get where he's coming from.

883
00:45:59,575 --> 00:45:59,655
Yeah.

884
00:46:00,415 --> 00:46:01,615
That's a banger tweet.

885
00:46:02,015 --> 00:46:02,335
Thank you.

886
00:46:02,615 --> 00:46:04,155
I'm surprised I remembered it right now.

887
00:46:04,155 --> 00:46:12,655
So how do you change this then? Does this need full reform of like the education system or is it really a little like Bitcoin? People just opting out of that?

888
00:46:12,655 --> 00:46:31,375
Yeah. I think a lot of that's actually changing now under RFK is that one of the things that he, and this is by kind of like executive and regulatory compliance. So hopefully when a new administration comes in, they don't overhaul this because it's kind of finicky with each administration, which is shocking.

889
00:46:31,375 --> 00:46:37,635
but in medical school, diet and nutrition is not a rigorous part of medical school.

890
00:46:37,895 --> 00:46:42,575
That should be the foundation because you might be getting these medications once a year,

891
00:46:42,735 --> 00:46:47,475
every six months, every five years or whatever, but you're putting food in your mouth three times

892
00:46:47,475 --> 00:46:52,435
a day. And so if the doctors aren't studying the thing that's being put in your mouth or in your

893
00:46:52,435 --> 00:46:57,915
body constantly, then they really have no foundational understanding of what the biomechanics

894
00:46:57,915 --> 00:46:59,455
that are going on in your body.

895
00:46:59,575 --> 00:47:01,055
And so I think that that's probably

896
00:47:01,055 --> 00:47:02,175
the biggest change that's happening.

897
00:47:02,255 --> 00:47:04,815
So I'm very bullish on the way

898
00:47:04,815 --> 00:47:05,995
that the medical community is going.

899
00:47:06,075 --> 00:47:07,795
I'd be the first one to champion,

900
00:47:08,255 --> 00:47:09,815
go to your doctor, go see your doctor,

901
00:47:09,815 --> 00:47:11,715
because he actually has an understanding

902
00:47:11,715 --> 00:47:13,115
of the ins and outs of your body.

903
00:47:13,235 --> 00:47:14,455
I think it would be better,

904
00:47:14,535 --> 00:47:17,435
a world where doctors would give you

905
00:47:17,435 --> 00:47:20,075
the best medical advice you could possibly get.

906
00:47:20,475 --> 00:47:22,835
I would gladly pay and take the time out of my day

907
00:47:22,835 --> 00:47:23,975
to take my kids to the doctor

908
00:47:23,975 --> 00:47:26,095
so that I don't have to try and figure out

909
00:47:26,095 --> 00:47:30,895
what's right and wrong by my research online. And I've actually read a lot of medical journals,

910
00:47:31,015 --> 00:47:35,355
but even then there's still a lot. I mean, it's just a lot of time and energy. I would rather pay

911
00:47:35,355 --> 00:47:40,335
somebody that legitimately is weighing the pros and cons. And when there's a time to take a medicine

912
00:47:40,335 --> 00:47:45,135
that I know that they've done the due diligence on it. When I was still taking my kids to

913
00:47:45,135 --> 00:47:50,215
pediatricians, I would ask them questions, but I'd say, okay, this drug that you're trying to give my

914
00:47:50,215 --> 00:47:55,415
kid right now, I just read the three studies that are associated with it. Can you tell me some of

915
00:47:55,415 --> 00:47:59,675
the contrary. I would quiz the doctor and the doctor's like, I'm going to be real with you.

916
00:47:59,795 --> 00:48:03,335
I have not read those. I just know that this is part of our protocol. We're part of this

917
00:48:03,335 --> 00:48:08,495
doctor's network. And so that's why we do this. And they, like, unashamedly, they were honest.

918
00:48:08,695 --> 00:48:12,095
Like they would lay it out and I'd say, okay, thank you for your honesty. So we're going to

919
00:48:12,095 --> 00:48:19,195
decline that one today. And so I would love a system where I could go in and I think doctors

920
00:48:19,195 --> 00:48:23,015
have, you know, they swear a Hippocratic oath that they should have a fiduciary responsibility

921
00:48:23,015 --> 00:48:25,495
to be the most knowledgeable person

922
00:48:25,495 --> 00:48:26,715
that you're gonna talk to

923
00:48:26,715 --> 00:48:28,435
about the entirety of your health.

924
00:48:28,455 --> 00:48:29,875
And I think that actually is changing.

925
00:48:29,955 --> 00:48:30,955
I've talked to a few doctors,

926
00:48:31,335 --> 00:48:32,155
doctors that have come,

927
00:48:32,215 --> 00:48:34,255
I had a spine surgeon the other day talking about,

928
00:48:34,335 --> 00:48:36,915
he wants to open up one of our wellness studios

929
00:48:36,915 --> 00:48:37,835
inside of his clinic

930
00:48:37,835 --> 00:48:38,655
because he says,

931
00:48:38,775 --> 00:48:40,095
our continuing education,

932
00:48:40,495 --> 00:48:42,075
we're learning about infrared saunas

933
00:48:42,075 --> 00:48:42,955
and red light therapy.

934
00:48:43,075 --> 00:48:43,795
He's a spine surgeon.

935
00:48:43,935 --> 00:48:44,855
He goes, we're learning about,

936
00:48:44,935 --> 00:48:46,175
he goes, what you guys are doing

937
00:48:46,175 --> 00:48:48,455
is the future of Western medicine.

938
00:48:48,655 --> 00:48:49,215
And I like that,

939
00:48:49,295 --> 00:48:51,015
he said that quote verbatim.

940
00:48:51,095 --> 00:48:51,475
And I'm like,

941
00:48:51,475 --> 00:48:57,315
oh, that's kind of crazy to think that holistic hippie medicine is the future of Western medicine.

942
00:48:57,475 --> 00:49:01,275
Is that kind of saying the future of Western medicine is like the history of Eastern medicine?

943
00:49:02,035 --> 00:49:06,975
I think it's exactly what he's saying. And to me, that was like so, so refreshing to hear.

944
00:49:07,095 --> 00:49:11,335
Yeah, that's cool. Can we talk about another one of the big scams in this sort of space,

945
00:49:11,355 --> 00:49:12,835
which is the food pyramid? Oh, yeah.

946
00:49:13,475 --> 00:49:17,635
So I'm going to let you explain it because I'm going to do a way worse job than you. So why is

947
00:49:17,635 --> 00:49:23,315
this a problem? Well, it goes back to why the food pyramid was built in the first place. And it was

948
00:49:23,315 --> 00:49:27,495
the regulatory agency says that you said that you need to have certain things in your diet. Well,

949
00:49:27,495 --> 00:49:34,135
the things that the companies that were that had influence over that criteria were ones that were

950
00:49:34,135 --> 00:49:40,375
this is post World War Two. And so most people don't realize that how much of an influence we

951
00:49:40,375 --> 00:49:45,275
know that Bretton Woods happened at that time, the Jekyll Island and, and all that the new world

952
00:49:45,275 --> 00:49:51,035
order of finance came about at the end of world war two, but we don't know that there's like this,

953
00:49:51,395 --> 00:49:56,275
there's like this free market dynamic that didn't, it didn't need to be like backroom deals and stuff.

954
00:49:56,275 --> 00:50:01,655
It's just that all the munitions factories, all the industrialization of the United States economy

955
00:50:01,655 --> 00:50:06,995
that we did to produce war materials needed to find something else to produce. Think of like,

956
00:50:07,235 --> 00:50:12,035
if you were doing your American duty and you, Oh, and you're a, you're a wealthy capitalist and you

957
00:50:12,035 --> 00:50:17,215
opened up a factory that was producing gunpowder and all of a sudden after the war you're like yeah

958
00:50:17,215 --> 00:50:21,395
i helped us win the war but now like what do i do with this thing you'd be looking for something

959
00:50:21,395 --> 00:50:26,435
else to do well at the same time we had the baby boom right we know about the post-war baby boom

960
00:50:26,435 --> 00:50:32,755
and so now there's more mouths to feed so your capitalist duty would be not only to make sure

961
00:50:32,755 --> 00:50:38,595
your factory has something to do because we don't need to you know produce war munitions anymore but

962
00:50:38,595 --> 00:50:44,995
now the country has this huge demand of hungry people. So we need to help farmers. And so we need

963
00:50:44,995 --> 00:50:50,255
a lot of those munitions factories started developing fertilizers. And so fertilizers

964
00:50:50,255 --> 00:50:56,615
became this huge industry and the fertilizers, it was a race to the bottom in terms of trying to

965
00:50:56,615 --> 00:51:00,455
find the cheapest fertilizers to feed the most people. And actually that was probably a good

966
00:51:00,455 --> 00:51:05,295
thing. We had a lot of people that even if it wasn't the most, the healthiest way to produce

967
00:51:05,295 --> 00:51:09,795
food, at least we were putting food in people's mouths. And so, so it kind of came out of these

968
00:51:09,795 --> 00:51:14,855
good incentives, but over time, after a couple of generations of that, you're left with these

969
00:51:14,855 --> 00:51:19,635
people that are exerting this influence over the food pyramid. The guy that was just this,

970
00:51:19,635 --> 00:51:24,375
this industrialist that was trying to find something to do with his factory. Now he's part

971
00:51:24,375 --> 00:51:29,355
of big ag and he's part of this process of, of he has these chemicals that he needs to do something

972
00:51:29,355 --> 00:51:32,935
with. Like you look at fluoride in the water, whether we want to go down that hole or not,

973
00:51:32,935 --> 00:51:36,755
But it's like, what's a byproduct of producing fertilizer?

974
00:51:37,115 --> 00:51:41,775
It's like you have this product of fluoride that all of a sudden, why in the 1960s does

975
00:51:41,775 --> 00:51:44,715
fluoride in the water become something that every government needs to do?

976
00:51:44,955 --> 00:51:48,915
Well, it turns out those same guys that had influence over the food pyramid were also

977
00:51:48,915 --> 00:51:52,655
the ones producing fertilizer for the farmers.

978
00:51:53,095 --> 00:51:57,075
Well, they also had this byproduct called fluoride that now instead of it being a waste

979
00:51:57,075 --> 00:52:00,955
product, they can actually make money off of it because they can sell it to local governments

980
00:52:00,955 --> 00:52:02,315
because it's good for your teeth, right?

981
00:52:02,315 --> 00:52:17,535
And so there's this like intertwining of the diet and our like supplements that we need and this idea that the government should be telling us what's in our water, that government should be doing like because we have a lot of hungry mouths to feed.

982
00:52:17,535 --> 00:52:26,395
And if you have six kids running around your house, well, make sure that you give them this basically matrix of food.

983
00:52:26,395 --> 00:52:32,295
And the foundation of it being, well, one of the things that we produced the best as a country was wheat and bread.

984
00:52:32,615 --> 00:52:37,575
And so let's make bread, because we can give that to everybody, let's make that the foundation of the pyramid.

985
00:52:37,755 --> 00:52:39,735
Again, probably in pretty good motives.

986
00:52:39,975 --> 00:52:44,035
Like, yes, farmers can produce a lot of bread, so we want to make sure there's market demand for it.

987
00:52:44,135 --> 00:52:48,075
But at the same time, at least we can make sure that the American population doesn't starve.

988
00:52:48,455 --> 00:52:49,595
And so it goes from there.

989
00:52:49,595 --> 00:52:58,235
And it's like, clearly we know by today, by a 2026 standard, that just because we can produce a lot of bread doesn't mean that it should be the foundation of our diet.

990
00:52:58,335 --> 00:53:04,295
It actually should be maybe at the top of the pyramid where we're just sprinkling that in as a tasty treat, you know?

991
00:53:04,435 --> 00:53:08,135
And the foundation of the diet needs to be more nutrient-dense foods.

992
00:53:08,335 --> 00:53:10,475
Before, it was about getting calories in.

993
00:53:10,775 --> 00:53:17,095
Now we're recognizing that nutrients are the most vital role in the food pyramid.

994
00:53:17,095 --> 00:53:24,195
And so with like saying it in the most complicated way possible, that that was the incentive structure around the food pyramid.

995
00:53:24,315 --> 00:53:29,135
So it's easy to say that, oh, big food constructed the food pyramid because they were nefarious.

996
00:53:29,355 --> 00:53:32,755
I do think there's a lot of nefarious actors in regulatory agencies and government.

997
00:53:33,295 --> 00:53:39,575
I try to ascribe the most like basic economic motives to it.

998
00:53:39,655 --> 00:53:45,715
I think that that's probably the closest approximation I can make as to why we got the food pyramid that we did.

999
00:53:45,715 --> 00:53:48,495
It was based in like necessity, market demand.

1000
00:53:48,895 --> 00:53:50,915
And then, yeah, some guys wanted to get rich off of it too.

1001
00:53:51,015 --> 00:53:52,215
So at the same time, you know,

1002
00:53:52,255 --> 00:53:54,735
if I can feed this growing American population,

1003
00:53:54,955 --> 00:53:56,555
but I can get filthy rich off of it,

1004
00:53:56,595 --> 00:53:58,335
off of the cheapest parts of my food,

1005
00:53:58,395 --> 00:53:59,455
then I'm going to do that.

1006
00:53:59,595 --> 00:54:01,395
Yeah, it makes sense like in that post-world era,

1007
00:54:01,495 --> 00:54:02,515
because obviously in the UK,

1008
00:54:02,615 --> 00:54:03,795
there was rationing at that time.

1009
00:54:03,835 --> 00:54:05,175
I don't think you ever had rationing here, did you?

1010
00:54:05,295 --> 00:54:05,435
Yeah.

1011
00:54:05,775 --> 00:54:07,615
So it's really just make whatever.

1012
00:54:07,775 --> 00:54:09,635
As long as people can eat, then that's kind of good.

1013
00:54:09,735 --> 00:54:11,155
But we're not living in that world now.

1014
00:54:12,075 --> 00:54:14,015
Obviously in Bitcoin, the sort of carnivore diet,

1015
00:54:14,015 --> 00:54:15,235
this kind of thing has been big.

1016
00:54:15,715 --> 00:54:17,295
What do you think the right diet is?

1017
00:54:17,295 --> 00:54:19,675
Because I love eating steak,

1018
00:54:19,675 --> 00:54:21,135
but I just don't wanna eat every meal.

1019
00:54:21,135 --> 00:54:22,675
Like I've never done the carnivore thing.

1020
00:54:22,675 --> 00:54:24,175
I like fruit and vegetables.

1021
00:54:25,175 --> 00:54:27,175
But when I'm at home, I eat pretty well.

1022
00:54:27,175 --> 00:54:28,515
Like I eat really good,

1023
00:54:28,515 --> 00:54:29,835
like generally just whole foods,

1024
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:30,860
We make everything from scratch.

1025
00:54:31,140 --> 00:54:32,880
When I'm away, that's a different story.

1026
00:54:33,020 --> 00:54:34,160
Like I'm drinking an energy drink

1027
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:35,460
and now we're on day three of a conference.

1028
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:36,540
I'm with you on that, don't worry.

1029
00:54:37,140 --> 00:54:39,280
But like, what do you think people should be doing?

1030
00:54:39,300 --> 00:54:40,360
Because I don't want you to tell me

1031
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:41,260
that I shouldn't be eating bread

1032
00:54:41,260 --> 00:54:42,880
because my wife makes amazing sourdough.

1033
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:45,880
You sound like you got a good one at home.

1034
00:54:46,180 --> 00:54:48,700
The sourdough, there's nothing intrinsically bad

1035
00:54:48,700 --> 00:54:49,620
about sourdough.

1036
00:54:50,300 --> 00:54:55,200
The way it's carbohydrates are constructed

1037
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,840
is completely different than the very synthetic form

1038
00:54:57,840 --> 00:54:58,640
of bread that we would get.

1039
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,500
then there's a nutritious value to sourdough.

1040
00:55:01,660 --> 00:55:03,580
So I don't think there needs to be any guilt

1041
00:55:03,580 --> 00:55:06,060
associated with homemade sourdough.

1042
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:07,340
My daughter, my 12-year-old,

1043
00:55:07,420 --> 00:55:09,360
she makes a dynamite sourdough as well.

1044
00:55:10,740 --> 00:55:15,040
But yeah, I'm not a scientist.

1045
00:55:15,340 --> 00:55:17,680
I'm not the leading expert on this

1046
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,400
other than I'm a guy that's genuinely spent

1047
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,100
the last like almost two decades

1048
00:55:22,100 --> 00:55:25,120
trying to understand this and reading and understanding

1049
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,980
and talking to the genuine experts in the space

1050
00:55:27,980 --> 00:55:29,320
because this is my livelihood.

1051
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,540
The best approximation I can come to on that

1052
00:55:32,540 --> 00:55:34,600
is that diets need to be unique.

1053
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,420
Like your body type is very different

1054
00:55:37,420 --> 00:55:39,040
than somebody else's, right?

1055
00:55:39,100 --> 00:55:41,360
If somebody's an endomorph and something,

1056
00:55:41,500 --> 00:55:44,540
like there's these different types of body types

1057
00:55:44,540 --> 00:55:47,880
that people have, we burn different rates of fuel.

1058
00:55:48,300 --> 00:55:50,200
And so, like I mentioned earlier,

1059
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:51,860
I like to train Brazilian jujitsu.

1060
00:55:51,980 --> 00:55:53,560
I have a jujitsu school.

1061
00:55:53,740 --> 00:55:56,740
And so I'm constantly training with these young people.

1062
00:55:56,740 --> 00:55:57,620
Please do.

1063
00:55:57,620 --> 00:55:59,1000
Your ears are going to get jacked up.

1064
00:55:59,1000 --> 00:56:02,140
I'm a big boxer, but I've never done jujitsu.

1065
00:56:02,900 --> 00:56:03,820
You're going to love it.

1066
00:56:03,900 --> 00:56:06,040
Like if you're willing to take a punch to the face,

1067
00:56:06,100 --> 00:56:08,240
like it's so easy to do jujitsu.

1068
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,200
It's tiring just like boxing, but yeah, less head trauma.

1069
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,420
I was sparring like twice a week until about a year ago,

1070
00:56:14,540 --> 00:56:16,060
not long after my daughter was born.

1071
00:56:16,140 --> 00:56:17,020
My wife said, you got to stop this.

1072
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:17,700
I was like, fair enough.

1073
00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:18,320
I probably do.

1074
00:56:18,740 --> 00:56:22,180
So when I had done kickboxing, Muay Thai and stuff

1075
00:56:22,180 --> 00:56:23,600
and trained some grappling,

1076
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:36,900
but when my daughter was born was basically the same time when I went full jujitsu And I love it And it scratches the competitive itch It makes me feel pretty confident that somebody jumps up from behind me and tries to strangle me to death

1077
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:39,380
I can at least try to fight out of it a little bit.

1078
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:44,580
Now, if somebody stabs me in the back, it doesn't do much for me.

1079
00:56:44,580 --> 00:56:53,500
But all that to say is like, I can tell that my nutrient demand when I'm training jujitsu

1080
00:56:53,500 --> 00:56:57,660
is different, even in my own body type, than when I'm out of training camp.

1081
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:03,060
And so to think that different body types wouldn't need types of diets, I know guys that

1082
00:57:03,060 --> 00:57:04,000
thrive on carnivore.

1083
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:05,920
My wife thrives on carnivore.

1084
00:57:06,100 --> 00:57:12,880
My mother-in-law just started carnivore last year and she stuck to it and transformed herself.

1085
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:17,100
I mean, at 65, she looks younger than she did when she was 50.

1086
00:57:17,180 --> 00:57:18,000
I mean, it's crazy.

1087
00:57:18,420 --> 00:57:30,420
And I think what people are seeing in these transformation diets, and especially what we see in our business of older people, they've been programmed to think that life is just a slow degrade until you die.

1088
00:57:30,500 --> 00:57:32,980
So after 50, things are not going to get better.

1089
00:57:33,380 --> 00:57:35,920
And when things get a little bit worse, here's another pill for it.

1090
00:57:35,940 --> 00:57:37,960
I guess it's the pharma tie back into it.

1091
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,600
But every time some new symptom arises, cool, we can kind of medicate that.

1092
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:46,260
but it's certainly not going to reverse it. Like the whole concept of the medication is just to

1093
00:57:46,260 --> 00:57:53,680
deal with the symptoms as they go. And you have to kind of mentally accept the suck that is life

1094
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:58,080
is only going to get worse from here. So seeing people, we have people, we have these vitamin D

1095
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:02,740
sunbeds where like in three treatments of people, just if they can't get vitamin D, because there's

1096
00:58:02,740 --> 00:58:06,540
not good sunshine outside or whatever, people are like, I feel like a different human being.

1097
00:58:06,540 --> 00:58:10,440
I'm like, stay on this stuff and start to eat well. And you know, these people were in their

1098
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:16,640
late 50s or early 60s, I said, I guarantee you that you are going to, the biggest unlock for you

1099
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:34,220
will be that life doesn have to be a slow downward spiral until I die And I think that Bitcoiners have kind of the upper hand on that because we saw that with the money We started to ask what in our money So then we asked what in our food and then we start to ask all these other questions And so there lots of Bitcoiners in their twenties thirties

1100
00:58:34,260 --> 00:58:38,940
and forties that are, that are kind of like capturing that ethos and running with it now.

1101
00:58:38,940 --> 00:58:43,740
And so, I mean, it's only gonna, you know, that's like a compounding effect that by the time that

1102
00:58:43,740 --> 00:58:48,080
we're 60, hopefully our health and wellness is even, is even better than the generation before.

1103
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:52,860
But the fact that people that didn't take that good care of themselves at 65 can start doing

1104
00:58:52,860 --> 00:59:00,500
it at 65 and have like life altering changes is really, really encouraging. And yeah, that spans

1105
00:59:00,500 --> 00:59:05,400
different. Um, I've seen people do that through a vegetarian diet. It seems, and I think what it

1106
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:09,340
comes down to, and this is the most consistent thread I've seen is that those people have

1107
00:59:09,340 --> 00:59:14,940
community, they have purpose, they have a regular activity, and then the food they eat just isn't

1108
00:59:14,940 --> 00:59:18,660
processed. So whether it's vegetarian, whether it's meat or whatever, whatever it is, it comes

1109
00:59:18,660 --> 00:59:19,620
from some sort of, like you said,

1110
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:21,080
whole food natural source.

1111
00:59:21,220 --> 00:59:23,640
And there's just not crap pumped into it.

1112
00:59:24,100 --> 00:59:25,540
And so those are like the four pillars

1113
00:59:25,540 --> 00:59:26,620
that I see most consistently.

1114
00:59:26,820 --> 00:59:27,160
I love it.

1115
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:28,880
Because I feel like Bitcoiners are so focused

1116
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:30,080
on taking sovereignty of their money,

1117
00:59:30,220 --> 00:59:32,080
but you also have to take sovereignty of your health.

1118
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:32,520
Yeah.

1119
00:59:32,860 --> 00:59:33,080
Yeah.

1120
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:34,680
It like sucks if you don't do that.

1121
00:59:34,980 --> 00:59:36,060
It's kind of like a,

1122
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:38,260
it's like seeing a personal trainer

1123
00:59:38,260 --> 00:59:39,220
that's like super fat.

1124
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:40,700
You know, like when you see a Bitcoiner

1125
00:59:40,700 --> 00:59:42,260
that's just like not taking care of himself,

1126
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:44,120
I'm like, dude, you got it on the money.

1127
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:45,840
And so why aren't you getting it here?

1128
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:47,440
And so, I mean, everybody's got their own path.

1129
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:49,380
So what happens when I come into one of these places?

1130
00:59:49,380 --> 00:59:50,180
Like, what do you do?

1131
00:59:50,540 --> 00:59:51,840
I'm going to give you a personal massage.

1132
00:59:51,940 --> 00:59:52,340
No, I'm sorry.

1133
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:53,260
No, no, no, no.

1134
00:59:53,260 --> 00:59:57,120
So, so yeah, salt and light is, is a pretty cool, fun experience.

1135
00:59:57,140 --> 01:00:01,520
We try to make the, the components of sunlight as easily, I guess it's almost like the components

1136
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:02,740
of a, of a day at the beach.

1137
01:00:02,740 --> 01:00:04,620
And so we have six different wellness services.

1138
01:00:04,620 --> 01:00:08,360
We have, like I mentioned, the vitamin D sunbeds, which incorporate red light therapy.

1139
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:13,020
So, so you're, you're, you're getting the, the healthy elements of the sun without the

1140
01:00:13,020 --> 01:00:14,420
overexposure risk of it.

1141
01:00:14,420 --> 01:00:18,460
because when you're outside, right, you don't, you don't, you know, make sure you, you don't

1142
01:00:18,460 --> 01:00:32,500
avoid getting too much And so everything kind of more properly dosed infrared light which is also in the natural sunshine You can go into the sauna get a get a sweat which pulls some of the toxins out You move from that room to our cold plunge room which you know when you go to the beach

1143
01:00:32,500 --> 01:00:33,180
and you go in the water,

1144
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:34,980
even if you go to Southern California in the summertime,

1145
01:00:35,100 --> 01:00:37,540
the water's always like, it hits you a little bit.

1146
01:00:37,540 --> 01:00:38,120
Not in Brisbane.

1147
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:39,080
Yeah, not in Brisbane.

1148
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:40,500
You don't go in the water?

1149
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:41,860
Oh, no, I do, but it's not cold.

1150
01:00:41,900 --> 01:00:42,380
It's not cold.

1151
01:00:42,460 --> 01:00:43,500
Not in the summer, at least.

1152
01:00:43,580 --> 01:00:44,440
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1153
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,980
So, yeah, you get a brisk,

1154
01:00:47,180 --> 01:00:48,580
I don't know if you've done cold plunge,

1155
01:00:48,740 --> 01:00:50,520
but the invigoration of the cold plunge,

1156
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:53,020
And then that's all inside of a salt room.

1157
01:00:53,100 --> 01:00:54,700
So you're actually just breathing in salty air,

1158
01:00:54,780 --> 01:00:57,020
which has incredible effects for your respiratory tract.

1159
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:59,280
I think that's one of the things that a lot of people don't.

1160
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:03,660
I think that if anybody's trying to look for the alpha in the wellness space,

1161
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:07,000
I think the thing that most people in wellness,

1162
01:01:07,140 --> 01:01:08,660
like red light's kind of a fad right now,

1163
01:01:08,780 --> 01:01:10,760
which, well, red light's been around for a long time.

1164
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,140
I don't think it's going anywhere, but it's just like kind of cool right now.

1165
01:01:13,620 --> 01:01:19,620
The salt therapy, breathing in salt, it's crazy how good it feels.

1166
01:01:19,620 --> 01:01:23,920
like if you have a lung condition, if you're sick, if you've got a cold, how fast it clears it up.

1167
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:29,320
And, uh, or, or we have people that have asthma and the fact that it, it, uh, it's anti-inflammatory.

1168
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:32,260
And so people are like, oh my gosh, it's the first time in a long time I could breathe naturally.

1169
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:36,320
I think that's, if you're betting on something or if somebody has got a wellness company out there

1170
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:39,260
and just like, like put a salt room and do these things, these things are incredible.

1171
01:01:39,260 --> 01:01:44,000
See, I surf quite a bit and you get the feeling like, I think being in the ocean again, I did.

1172
01:01:44,060 --> 01:01:47,480
I never really thought of the salt part, but like being in the ocean, doing exercise and then coming

1173
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:53,780
out, you don't ever feel better. It is the best start of any day. A hundred percent. Um, this has

1174
01:01:53,780 --> 01:01:56,740
been awesome. I'm going to come and see you, dude, please do. I want to go and do jujitsu.

1175
01:01:56,860 --> 01:02:01,800
We're going to do jujitsu. Yeah. We're, we're LA and the greater LA area. Okay. Yeah. I'm going

1176
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:07,180
to be in LA in July, so I'm going to hit you up. That'll be fun. So we, we've been accused of being

1177
01:02:07,180 --> 01:02:11,480
just like pharma and the fact that in jujitsu we beat people up, but then I also charge them to go

1178
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:14,960
do the full punch afterwards. So we caused the problem and we pay you for the, you make,

1179
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:15,760
That's just good business.

1180
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:17,240
But I'll take care of you.

1181
01:02:17,300 --> 01:02:17,620
Don't worry.

1182
01:02:17,660 --> 01:02:18,000
There you go.

1183
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:18,760
And can I pay in Bitcoin?

1184
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:20,080
You absolutely can.

1185
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:20,480
Awesome.

1186
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:20,960
Let's go.

1187
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:21,520
Thank you for this.

1188
01:02:21,540 --> 01:02:21,900
It's been cool.

1189
01:02:21,900 --> 01:02:22,060
Thank you.

1190
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:22,460
Thanks, Danny.