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If something comes along and improves the world 2%, you now have a world that doubles

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36 years faster than it used to be.

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Bitcoin is a global project.

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People that have dreams for it, it's very selfish.

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Their dreams are going to be very small compared to what Bitcoin does.

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Don't fall into the trap of the autistic bedroom dweller telling you his dream for the world

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and how he's about to achieve it.

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You don't have to live in that world.

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You can elect not to.

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Bitcoin needs to be used primarily

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for its function of transferring value

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from place to place right now,

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such that that is the number one reason

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that someone wants to use the blockchain.

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And until then,

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we will have a million attack vectors.

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Mr. Junset.

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Aye.

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We are on.

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Have you seen, you were obviously on the show maybe three years ago, talking about how-

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This is for me, obviously.

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Yeah, you've got your sippy cup ready.

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It was whiskey when you were on the show last time.

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Now it's sippy cups.

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It was whiskey and guns.

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But you were on the show a few years ago.

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Look at you eating all your baby snacks.

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Well, I love baby snacks.

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This is actually what I buy now when I go to the store.

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I put things into sippy cup bottles so I can drink them later.

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I don't want to be the one to dox it, Jenseth,

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but I feel like you have.

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You've got your kid in the room.

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Yeah, my little baby's here.

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Having a fun time walking around, seeing the cameras?

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She might make an appearance if she's brave.

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She has no idea what's going on.

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But last time, not last time,

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but a few years ago when you were on the pod,

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did a show about how the metaverse isn't real.

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Yeah.

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Have you seen they've closed down the metaverse?

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What metaverse? It wasn't real.

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Well, the company that named themselves after the metaverse.

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They've closed down their metaverse.

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Well, that's not surprising because it never really existed in the first place.

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It's one of the latest narratives in crypto world to die.

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It's really easy to make predictions when you're just saying true things.

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You know, the metaverse stuff was funny.

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I remember debating someone.

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They told me that the amazing thing about the metaverse was that very soon,

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Boeing is going to be able to stop making airplanes.

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Because why would you need to go there?

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And that we will be able to just walk into an airplane in the virtual world, fly somewhere, and land and get to see any place we want.

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And I said to this person, well, why use an airplane?

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Why not a Star Trek transporter then?

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And they just kind of froze because they hadn't considered that maybe in the metaverse you don't need an airplane.

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I was like, why spend like three hours flying to a place that's virtual when you could just transport there?

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No, you've still got to go through TSA.

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Sir, please.

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You have metal in your pockets.

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The thing that was insane to me about that narrative

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is how they thought you could take

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any kind of human touch out of an interaction.

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Like they thought that it could be the same.

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Me and you sat here with our VR headsets on

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and it feel the same as us being sat here.

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I don't know what the kind of, what was going on?

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What were people actually thinking?

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I think this was like brain rot after COVID.

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it. It used to be that the world was imagined by people who were grounded and had a sense of

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wonder about the future. And now the world is imagined by a bunch of autistics who want nothing,

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who think that the best state of the world is one wherein you live in your bedroom and never come out.

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and human interactions are superfluous like food in Silicon Valley.

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You know what I mean?

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Like it's the, what's that?

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The green drink or whatever it was from that movie.

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What's this?

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Where they drink the people.

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Oh, I do know what you mean.

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So I was talking to, I think this is where-

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What's that called?

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I don't know.

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Do you want me to look it up?

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Yeah.

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I can't think of what that was called.

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They have a product that they make of it too.

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It's like a soy, like milk thing.

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Let's see.

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All the energy you'd ever need.

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Soylent green.

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Soylent.

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What was that?

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Is that what it was called?

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Or is that what the fake one is?

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Soylent.

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It was both.

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I mean, they named Soylent after Soylent.

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So yeah, the whole world is like, it's like Soylent, but in like human interaction sense.

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Like you, you just, the world's imagined by people who think the best state of the world

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is living in your bedroom and not seeing beautiful things and not experiencing art,

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you know, for the sake of, you know, there's a whole lot of things that have always existed

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that you can do, that you could do virtually, that are virtually identical to doing the real

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thing, going to a concert, listening to a CD, for example. And people have decided that it is a

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better world where I can go to a concert and watch the person who I love to listen to the CD of

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perform the music live. And there's a whole class of people that we've given a whole bunch of power

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to for some reason who view the world as, or who view those people who believe those things as

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insipid and as, as, uh, as

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uncomfortably imaginative, I guess. And I view those people as, as normal. And I think you would

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have too. Yeah. And the thing is that there's like an infection that I've noticed that has occurred

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in, in humans where we take this class of people who believe that living inside their bedroom is

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the best state of the world. And it seems like it infects all of our analyses all over. Everyone I

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talk to talks about AI as if it's going to replace every single job. They talk about the great future

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in which we'll all be embedding chips in our brain and sitting in chairs in the matrix.

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And I just don't see that as an interesting world. And I don't think that they would see that as an

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interesting world. And I don't see how you end up from here to there without convincing people that

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it's an interesting world. As humans, we still have to be, we still have to elect to live in the

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world that we build. There's so much in that. So I do want to come back to the AI taking jobs,

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but before we do, like, do you think the world, like the world is dictated by like the genius

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autist coders at the moment, because like everything comes out of the big tech company.

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No, the world is not dictated by them. The imagination is captured by them. That's what

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I'm saying is like, they don't make the world. They, they're the ones that make stupid products

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and say that everyone's going to like this amazing product in Bitcoin. We saw it for years. We had

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Slocket and like all sorts of other retarded things that people made and proposed. And I was

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like, you know, always viewed as this person who was just so amazing in terms of understanding what

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wouldn't, wouldn't work. But like they, I knew that nothing would work because it was stupid.

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And like, it's the same way nowadays, you know, but you can't say the big tech companies haven't

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work like it's not that the big tech companies haven't worked it's that it's that the the

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augmentation of the world we live in is like a good thing things that allow us to better connect

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can you know maybe be good and good enhancements to your life or my life but a world where like

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every single every single young kid has anxiety about how many likes they get on a post i think

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you and i both would agree that that is not an optimal world to live in absolutely and i think

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that those kids that have the anxiety would agree that if there were an alternative, which there is.

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You just don't go on social media.

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Yeah. If there were an alternative, they would prefer the alternative. And so the imagination

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is captured by these autistic idiots who don't understand human interaction. But we as humans,

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again, still have to elect to live in the world they're imagining. And I don't think that there's

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support for that. See, I wonder if AI really changes that. So I was speaking to Jesse Posner,

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who, I don't know if you know him, working on Vora with Eric Kaysen at the moment. They're doing a

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load of AI stuff. And he was saying the interesting change that's going to happen is that the world

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is no longer created, for example, social media by these genius coders at Silicon Valley. It's

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going to be the philosophers and the English majors that are now going to be the best actually

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implementing ideas, because all you have to do is use language to talk to these AI models. And who's

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better at language than those people. That's dumb. Why? Because... Let me just help you out there.

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He told me it was a death trap, Abigail. Come here, hon.

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You're doxing yourself now. We nearly lost the camera, but we're okay.

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Okay. So it's dumb because the language of every single industry is not best spoken by an English

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major the language of art is going to be spoken by someone who is well versed in art and maybe has

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an art history major i mean he included the artists the creatives they're the people great

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talking about but the language of like i don't know science is best spoken by a scientist

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like i i i've done some things in chat gpt and these other llms where i'm making things using

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them for making various things that I sell just for fun.

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I have these little projects I do.

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And I won't tell you how many times they have given me formulations that if I were to mix

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them together, they would cause a giant explosion.

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And then when I ask it-

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Do you mean unintentionally or intentionally?

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It tells me that just mix these two things together.

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And then I'll be like, that'll explode.

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And I'll be like, oh, yeah, that it will.

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Yeah.

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Potentially, yes.

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I think you can argue that's down to

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inputs as well. Okay, so we'll give that to an

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English major. Let the English major

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parse that out then.

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But did you see the guy in Australia? I don't know how true this is

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because it was on Twitter, but the guy whose dog had

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cancer. And then he cured his dog's cancer

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with the... I heard about this.

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So he sequenced the genome

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and then fed it into some

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LLM, got it to come up with the

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mRNA vaccine and created

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the vaccine, went through the regulations,

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gave this dog the vaccine, and it seemingly

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has done a good job at like reducing the cancer.

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Sounds like mRNA might actually be incredible.

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I think we always knew that though, right?

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But like, okay, so what we have here

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is regulatory hurdles that prevent mRNA

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from being incredible.

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We have LLMs that will take all of the mRNA research

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and tell you what to do.

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We also have scientists that can do that stuff.

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And like, this isn't a world,

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like what's neat is the DIY chemistry stuff.

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Like a lot of that DIY chemistry and DIY everything.

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I mean, I set up a chemistry lab in my own house.

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What happened to the wood shop?

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I have a wood shop in my own house.

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I have a chemistry lab.

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I have a wood shop.

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I have, you know, everything I can.

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You know, I have toys and whatever that I enjoy.

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But I have a daughter that I want to, like, have her be allowed to touch and do everything that she can possibly do.

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so she can learn the language of the world.

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And the language isn't like Chinese or Spanish or anything like that.

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It's like the language of chemistry and the language of biology

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and the language of computer science and all of these things.

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All of that language is going to actually help you to actually navigate,

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whether it's LLMs or whatever it is in the future.

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I don't really view the LLM space as AI per se.

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It's just language models.

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They're just, you know, output machines.

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If you already self-custody Bitcoin, you know the deal with hardware wallets.

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Complex setups, clumsy interfaces, and a seed phrase that can be lost, stolen, or forgotten.

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234
00:13:57,700 --> 00:13:59,820
with all collateral held by Ledin directly

235
00:13:59,820 --> 00:14:00,960
or their funding partners.

236
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,360
Your Bitcoins never lent out to generate interest.

237
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:05,600
I recently took out a loan with Ledin.

238
00:14:05,780 --> 00:14:07,360
The whole process was super easy.

239
00:14:07,740 --> 00:14:09,600
The application took me less than 15 minutes

240
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,200
and in a few hours I had the dollars in my account.

241
00:14:12,500 --> 00:14:13,460
It was super smooth.

242
00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:16,260
So if you need cash, but you don't want to sell Bitcoin,

243
00:14:16,260 --> 00:14:19,220
head over to ledin.io forward slash WBD

244
00:14:19,220 --> 00:14:21,780
and you'll get 0.25% off your first loan.

245
00:14:21,780 --> 00:14:25,920
That's ledn.io forward slash WBD.

246
00:14:26,140 --> 00:14:27,500
So when you look at like,

247
00:14:28,020 --> 00:14:29,780
I guess what you project the future to be

248
00:14:29,780 --> 00:14:31,500
with these LLMs, with AI,

249
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:33,640
you said you don't think it's going to take every job.

250
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,360
I think every job is a stretch for anyone,

251
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,400
but like, I think it's going to replace a lot of jobs.

252
00:14:37,540 --> 00:14:39,900
And especially those jobs tend to be,

253
00:14:40,220 --> 00:14:41,780
at least at first, white collar jobs.

254
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:43,060
Like it's the computer programmers,

255
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:44,520
it's going to be the lawyers, the accountants,

256
00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,080
like these, this is going to be like incredibly disruptive.

257
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,460
Do you think it's all,

258
00:14:50,460 --> 00:14:53,100
do you think we're going to move to a better future,

259
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,980
even if we have like a huge interim period

260
00:14:55,980 --> 00:14:57,240
where it's very painful for people?

261
00:14:57,420 --> 00:14:58,820
Or do you think we're going to see

262
00:14:58,820 --> 00:15:00,360
some like revolt against technology?

263
00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:02,560
I don't know.

264
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,580
I tend to live my life as a Luddist and the first,

265
00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,400
so it doesn't really bother me anyway,

266
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:10,020
which way it goes.

267
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,940
And as to whether we end up having a revolt with people

268
00:15:14,940 --> 00:15:19,300
or whether there actually is this incredible transition

269
00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:20,300
that everyone's predicting,

270
00:15:20,300 --> 00:15:20,820
I don't know.

271
00:15:21,780 --> 00:15:37,700
I think the thing about transition in history, I think, shows us this, is that we as humans do fine with tumultuous transitions as long as they're slow.

272
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,300
And we—

273
00:15:41,300 --> 00:15:42,920
But this isn't going to be slow.

274
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:44,220
I don't think you're right.

275
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:48,720
I think that—I think it will be very slow comparatively.

276
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,100
I think it's going to be...

277
00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:52,080
What makes you think that, though?

278
00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:56,520
Because you look at the sort of the charts of how good these LLM models are getting,

279
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,620
and it's basically exponential at the moment.

280
00:15:59,540 --> 00:16:01,220
So how can that be slow?

281
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:06,120
Because it's just...

282
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,420
Everything just takes longer than you think.

283
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:11,980
It's kind of like the humanoid robots.

284
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,900
Everyone is telling me we were going to have by now that we don't have.

285
00:16:15,900 --> 00:16:21,440
you know um and i don't think that we'll ever have them i think that those will probably i i was

286
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,600
talking to someone a couple months ago saying that like i don't think that humanoid robots are

287
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:31,980
the answer i think it's going to be specific task robots that you know yeah and that's just that's

288
00:16:31,980 --> 00:16:36,620
my prediction like i don't think that there's any reason why it has to look like a human like

289
00:16:36,620 --> 00:16:43,140
you know i think that a robot built to sweep my floors is going to be way better at sweeping my

290
00:16:43,140 --> 00:16:46,920
floors and like a general purpose human robot. I mean, I have one of them. I have a robot vacuum.

291
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,600
And it's terrible. I mean, it's better than you because it does it every day. Well, that's the

292
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:56,320
thing is like, there's just like reality in which if you've had one of these robots, you know,

293
00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:03,980
okay, your robot does a job that is 10% as good as your job, but it does it every day. So after

294
00:17:03,980 --> 00:17:08,300
two weeks, you look at the floor and you're like, this is 400% better than it is when I take care of

295
00:17:08,300 --> 00:17:14,160
it yep but like in like an aggregate sense it's better but in an like an individual like i just

296
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:19,980
vacuum the floor sense it's heinous 100 right and that's how all these are same with my like my my

297
00:17:19,980 --> 00:17:27,540
my uh my mower same thing it's you have a robot mower oh yeah it does a five percent as good a job

298
00:17:27,540 --> 00:17:34,020
as i do five percent and only an aggregate like after a week is it as good as as mine

299
00:17:34,020 --> 00:17:36,500
You know, dad is pretty good, too.

300
00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:38,300
She doesn't want that.

301
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:39,960
Do you want peanuts down there, hon?

302
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,640
I think this is the most wholesome show I've ever done.

303
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,140
Yeah, well, peanuts here.

304
00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:48,620
Uh-oh.

305
00:17:48,980 --> 00:17:49,720
You can have peanuts.

306
00:17:51,140 --> 00:17:52,640
Mommy can make sure you don't choke on them.

307
00:17:53,540 --> 00:17:54,200
There you go.

308
00:17:55,180 --> 00:18:00,700
So, yeah, I think in aggregate, the mower does about a 5% as good a job as I do mowing the lawn.

309
00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:03,820
But because it does it every day, now my lawn is mowed.

310
00:18:04,020 --> 00:18:09,380
Did you see the humanoid robot thing that came out maybe six months ago or something,

311
00:18:09,500 --> 00:18:12,640
where it was sold as this thing that was going to do all the tasks around your house?

312
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:13,440
It looked like a human.

313
00:18:13,580 --> 00:18:14,400
It could do the dishwasher.

314
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,020
And it turned out it was being driven by someone with a VR headset in another part of it.

315
00:18:18,020 --> 00:18:19,080
You can always expect that, though.

316
00:18:19,300 --> 00:18:19,500
Nothing.

317
00:18:20,780 --> 00:18:25,260
I have a rule in my life, which is that no innovation will ever change the world more

318
00:18:25,260 --> 00:18:25,980
than 2%.

319
00:18:25,980 --> 00:18:27,860
Even Bitcoin?

320
00:18:28,540 --> 00:18:28,900
Nothing.

321
00:18:29,860 --> 00:18:31,780
You don't think Bitcoin has changed the world by more than 2%?

322
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:33,520
No, not efficiency.

323
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:38,520
I think it will, like, I think maximum, like, Bitcoin could do, like, a big 2%.

324
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:40,840
Like, that's a huge, think about it this way.

325
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:52,260
Like, if something comes along and improves the world 2%, you now have a world that doubles 36 years faster than it used to be.

326
00:18:52,580 --> 00:18:53,400
It's pretty big.

327
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:54,260
It's huge.

328
00:18:54,340 --> 00:18:59,280
So, like, every 36 years, you'll have another doubling based on the 2% change.

329
00:18:59,380 --> 00:19:00,780
Like, 2% is a lot.

330
00:19:00,860 --> 00:19:01,860
People don't realize that.

331
00:19:01,860 --> 00:19:05,440
I think last time we spoke, you said Bitcoin's not done anything yet.

332
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:06,240
Yeah.

333
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,680
Do you feel like it has at this point?

334
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:09,320
No.

335
00:19:10,020 --> 00:19:10,740
No, not yet.

336
00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:13,240
I find that really hard.

337
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:14,680
It's just, it's jumped in value.

338
00:19:14,780 --> 00:19:16,500
Like, what has it done?

339
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:17,700
We haven't done anything yet.

340
00:19:17,820 --> 00:19:20,240
It's done, but it has done things for people.

341
00:19:21,580 --> 00:19:22,340
It's made people rich.

342
00:19:22,740 --> 00:19:26,160
No, no, and it's helped people escape dictatorships and autocratic regimes.

343
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:27,560
Well, that's what it does.

344
00:19:29,740 --> 00:19:30,200
That's it?

345
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:30,500
That's what it does.

346
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:32,120
Yeah. No, that is a thing that Bitcoin does.

347
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:33,940
Makes people rich and helps people escape.

348
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:40,580
Well, Bitcoin goes in your prison wallet and helps you escape autocracy, oligarchy, whatever,

349
00:19:41,140 --> 00:19:43,300
arcy you're living under, right?

350
00:19:43,980 --> 00:19:47,040
Bitcoin is good at being transported.

351
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,680
That's the function of Bitcoin, right?

352
00:19:49,700 --> 00:19:52,160
You memorize some things in your head and it moves from place to place.

353
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:53,080
Incredible.

354
00:19:53,580 --> 00:19:55,000
Helps you escape fiat debasement?

355
00:19:55,700 --> 00:19:55,920
Yeah.

356
00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:58,600
So it has done things.

357
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,580
If that's a thing that if we're considering that doing a thing, then yeah.

358
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:03,720
Okay.

359
00:20:03,860 --> 00:20:05,340
So when you say that-

360
00:20:05,340 --> 00:20:06,020
It moves value.

361
00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:07,040
That's what Bitcoin does.

362
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,900
Like that's, I'm not, I'm not like, I'm not, I don't want to take away from that.

363
00:20:11,020 --> 00:20:17,900
What I mean is like, is Bitcoin, is Bitcoin doing like, like, are we seeing banks use

364
00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:19,400
it and governments grab it?

365
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:33,212
And like is it really changing the world Like getting people out of like bad situations they could stick gold up their butthole or they can stick Bitcoin up their butthole Bitcoin is better And especially especially over shorter periods of time where it like a little you know we can get it in

366
00:20:33,293 --> 00:20:37,152
get it out, sell it. It's highly liquid. It doesn't, you don't have to go to your local

367
00:20:37,152 --> 00:20:42,313
coin shop and take a 10% VIG on it, right? Like Bitcoin is better at that. That's a thing. It's

368
00:20:42,313 --> 00:20:48,352
way better at getting in and out of countries. You could literally, you know, mine your way out

369
00:20:48,352 --> 00:20:51,932
of Venezuela or something like that if you had to. Although now we don't have to worry about

370
00:20:51,932 --> 00:20:57,732
Venezuela. They're fine. But I'm not sure they're fine. They're fine. They might be in a slightly

371
00:20:57,732 --> 00:21:03,752
better situation. I'm not sure they're fine. Good job done. Mission accomplished. Is there something

372
00:21:03,752 --> 00:21:09,592
that you would look at and be like, okay, that Bitcoin is real now? I think if governments were

373
00:21:11,592 --> 00:21:15,892
were kind of doing like mini war with Bitcoin, that would be kind of an interesting thing.

374
00:21:15,892 --> 00:21:24,892
like uh fighting over i think if we um i think if bitcoin were used more in like transactions for

375
00:21:24,892 --> 00:21:31,533
like arms and maybe higher crimes i don't know but arms deals and other such things maybe that

376
00:21:31,533 --> 00:21:36,293
would be i i don't know i just i just feel like i look at it and bitcoin's kind of it's just boring

377
00:21:36,293 --> 00:21:41,092
bitcoin's boring it's not it's not that's not a bad thing it's a good thing i always joked about

378
00:21:41,092 --> 00:21:46,412
it i said if bitcoin were universal so like we we have you know these meetup groups down here we had

379
00:21:46,412 --> 00:21:51,252
them the bitcoin were universal it would this meetup group would be like having the like

380
00:21:51,252 --> 00:21:58,492
uh greenback money club it'd just be like very very stupid uh just passing around dollar bills

381
00:21:58,492 --> 00:22:05,553
yeah and you know i like exactly like look at this dollar man like that's cool and like i i feel like

382
00:22:05,553 --> 00:22:10,692
we're just i i'm not gonna have a strong sense that bitcoin's done something until we're at the

383
00:22:10,692 --> 00:22:17,572
stage where like we're doing that kind of thing. I think the ETFs are a really big thing. I think

384
00:22:17,572 --> 00:22:22,492
the like acceptance generally for Bitcoin in everyday life and such is a really big thing.

385
00:22:23,152 --> 00:22:26,172
I think the fact that the shit coins are still around is a bad thing.

386
00:22:27,072 --> 00:22:30,612
Yeah, but are they even like that relevant anymore? I feel like the sort of-

387
00:22:30,612 --> 00:22:35,033
Well, they've piggybacked on a lot of the Bitcoin stuff and like nobody knows, right? Like for

388
00:22:35,033 --> 00:22:39,652
example, like you have ETH ETFs and you have Ripple, I'm sure ETFs and you know, whatever.

389
00:22:39,652 --> 00:22:45,313
like you have all of these things that are just kind of like piggybacking on the the the the sort

390
00:22:45,313 --> 00:22:52,192
of like footsteps that bitcoin's forged and they're just kind of they're just a few months

391
00:22:52,192 --> 00:22:57,832
behind it it would seem and also no one really cares about them like the the treasury companies

392
00:22:57,832 --> 00:23:04,773
like who's talking about them bitcoin tina is he he called me up once and he goes you gotta get

393
00:23:04,773 --> 00:23:08,632
this big picture of this theory company i said that's so stupid i'm not doing that

394
00:23:08,632 --> 00:23:14,592
i put ten dollars and just took track it oh is he just trying to make it all back in one trade

395
00:23:14,592 --> 00:23:21,192
no what he's doing i i've told him before to just like like i don't think everyone knows what

396
00:23:21,192 --> 00:23:27,832
bitcoin t is but i've uh i get a kick out of it because like like i i think i think for him he

397
00:23:27,832 --> 00:23:34,892
needed to reduce his like Bitcoin stack because he's an older guy. And, uh, and now like I just,

398
00:23:34,892 --> 00:23:40,252
he's, he's, he just really loves reading market news and following ideas. And I just think he's

399
00:23:40,252 --> 00:23:47,412
a really bad trader. I would be too. I don't trade though. I just, I don't have any Bitcoin,

400
00:23:47,553 --> 00:23:51,813
but of course not. Never have. Um, when did Bitcoin get boring then? Cause like,

401
00:23:51,892 --> 00:23:57,632
even since I've come in, it's, I mean, it's changed massively in since you, were you like

402
00:23:57,632 --> 00:24:02,072
2011? I was a week after pizza day. So I think that's 2010, but I'm not sure.

403
00:24:02,372 --> 00:24:06,412
So you've seen everything. I've seen everything. And it definitely hasn't always been boring.

404
00:24:06,432 --> 00:24:09,053
Well, you know, it's funny because at the time I didn't think I'd seen everything at the time.

405
00:24:09,072 --> 00:24:13,773
I thought it was late. I mean, that's insane. That's how everyone felt at every stage of

406
00:24:13,773 --> 00:24:18,972
entering Bitcoin. It doesn't matter when you got here. Every single person has felt like they missed

407
00:24:18,972 --> 00:24:24,412
everything and that they're late. I felt that way. I couldn't believe how late I was to this like

408
00:24:24,412 --> 00:24:25,692
cool project.

409
00:24:28,972 --> 00:24:30,672
It's weird to be in the position now

410
00:24:30,672 --> 00:24:32,832
that I'm considered an OG

411
00:24:32,832 --> 00:24:35,293
because when I got here, there were people that had been here before.

412
00:24:35,972 --> 00:24:38,832
Yeah, but the longest they could have been before you is like 18 months.

413
00:24:38,832 --> 00:24:40,432
But it still felt

414
00:24:40,432 --> 00:24:42,152
the same.

415
00:24:42,672 --> 00:24:44,293
It felt exactly the same.

416
00:24:45,632 --> 00:24:45,912
And

417
00:24:45,912 --> 00:24:48,872
back then we celebrated things like

418
00:24:48,872 --> 00:24:50,912
when Bitcoin Magazine

419
00:24:50,912 --> 00:24:52,912
was in a few Barnes

420
00:24:52,912 --> 00:24:53,452
and Nobles

421
00:24:53,452 --> 00:25:01,553
that was when vitalik had it well i guess so i guess that's the story um when matthew and right

422
00:25:01,553 --> 00:25:10,813
this is pre uh pre-acquisition by bitpay or tony galipi matthew and right was one of the big guys

423
00:25:10,813 --> 00:25:17,232
on there i don't remember vitalik really being uh anything other than kind of a staff writer and i

424
00:25:17,232 --> 00:25:20,852
think maybe they gave us equity but maybe i'm wrong there's there's some history of that that

425
00:25:20,852 --> 00:25:28,773
I'm not sure exactly how that worked, but Matthew and Wright and a few other guys, Matthew's kind of like disappeared from the community after the pirate scandal.

426
00:25:30,912 --> 00:25:32,972
But yeah, that got in.

427
00:25:33,352 --> 00:25:36,392
Bitcoin magazine was put into some Barnes and Nobles.

428
00:25:36,992 --> 00:25:40,232
I remember going and buying issue one at Barnes and Noble, if it was issue one or two.

429
00:25:41,033 --> 00:25:49,033
And just couldn't couldn't believe that my like teeny tiny project had like made it done enough to get into Barnes and Noble.

430
00:25:49,033 --> 00:25:57,793
So I guess the news around Bitcoin has been exciting before, but now it just kind of turned into CNBC financial news.

431
00:25:58,053 --> 00:26:03,072
Before, it felt like we were building a business at one time as a giant community of people.

432
00:26:04,192 --> 00:26:07,912
Does it feel in any way like it's failed to become what you thought it was going to be?

433
00:26:08,112 --> 00:26:10,293
No. I never had any expectations.

434
00:26:11,152 --> 00:26:13,972
I wasn't a libertarian who thought we were going to take over the world.

435
00:26:13,972 --> 00:26:20,972
I would say that the way that Bitcoin has gone has been closer to their predictions than I thought it ever would be.

436
00:26:22,252 --> 00:26:24,152
It's been faster than I think they ever thought.

437
00:26:25,013 --> 00:26:35,152
The idea that you have this asset that you've created out of thin air that is sort of like, I don't know, it's sort of like going through Pennsylvania, right?

438
00:26:35,692 --> 00:26:40,672
And discovering that the Indians are finding this juice coming out of rocks.

439
00:26:41,513 --> 00:26:43,892
And then you're like, oh, that's interesting.

440
00:26:43,972 --> 00:26:46,212
And you're like, you're like, it lights on fire.

441
00:26:46,533 --> 00:26:46,932
Interesting.

442
00:26:47,053 --> 00:26:49,053
And you pull it out of the ground, you fill up barrels.

443
00:26:49,053 --> 00:26:51,553
And then you're like, huh, I wonder what the fuck this does.

444
00:26:52,192 --> 00:26:56,372
And then over time, like it replaces like oil lamps.

445
00:26:56,372 --> 00:27:01,092
And over time, it replaces, you know, and then all of a sudden there's a use for it because we have like the automobile arrives.

446
00:27:01,092 --> 00:27:01,332
Right.

447
00:27:01,852 --> 00:27:07,492
And you derive like all sorts of things from it, including what goes in there to lubricate like gasoline and whatever.

448
00:27:07,632 --> 00:27:07,773
Right.

449
00:27:09,632 --> 00:27:13,612
So there's there's that sort of thing.

450
00:27:13,612 --> 00:27:18,252
And I think that's kind of how Bitcoin is oil in your computer, right?

451
00:27:18,313 --> 00:27:21,072
We don't really, like it was discovered there by Satoshi Nakamoto.

452
00:27:22,432 --> 00:27:23,652
There's an asset in there.

453
00:27:23,852 --> 00:27:25,652
We didn't really know how to quantify the asset.

454
00:27:25,872 --> 00:27:29,152
He did it with some numbers and some algos to like pull it out.

455
00:27:29,572 --> 00:27:31,972
And now it's like, oh, there's an asset in my computer.

456
00:27:32,293 --> 00:27:33,533
Well, what is it useful for?

457
00:27:34,492 --> 00:27:37,592
It's kind of like money, like this thing that we've theorized.

458
00:27:38,092 --> 00:27:42,932
We've made these proximate things that we call money that are like money.

459
00:27:43,612 --> 00:27:46,632
that have the features of a thing that we think money has.

460
00:27:47,392 --> 00:27:50,252
And so there's this thing in the computer digitally

461
00:27:50,252 --> 00:27:54,652
that looks like what we have theorized exists, which is money.

462
00:27:55,432 --> 00:27:58,972
It's kind of like oil in that it's an asset we've never touched.

463
00:27:59,172 --> 00:28:00,612
And we're just kind of looking like, what does it do?

464
00:28:00,872 --> 00:28:01,992
And maybe it is money.

465
00:28:02,293 --> 00:28:02,872
Maybe it is.

466
00:28:02,912 --> 00:28:07,112
We don't know yet exactly because it's just kind of like sitting there

467
00:28:07,112 --> 00:28:08,313
in your computer doing its thing.

468
00:28:08,813 --> 00:28:11,692
And we are just holding it and just watching it

469
00:28:11,692 --> 00:28:14,352
and seeing what smarter people than us do with it.

470
00:28:14,952 --> 00:28:19,112
So you don't worry at all about this idea of co-option,

471
00:28:19,293 --> 00:28:20,632
what Bitcoin could have been?

472
00:28:23,212 --> 00:28:23,692
No.

473
00:28:24,732 --> 00:28:25,652
No, that's stupid.

474
00:28:27,072 --> 00:28:28,773
No, Bitcoin don't live in the no regrets.

475
00:28:30,033 --> 00:28:31,092
Neither does John Seth.

476
00:28:32,013 --> 00:28:34,053
But why is it stupid?

477
00:28:34,112 --> 00:28:36,592
Because I know you understand the sort of idea around that,

478
00:28:36,652 --> 00:28:37,852
that basically it becomes like a walkthrough.

479
00:28:37,852 --> 00:28:40,132
It's stupid because there's not one person who's in charge of this.

480
00:28:40,132 --> 00:28:45,172
and there's like maybe you have dreams for bitcoin but your dreams for bitcoin are so stupid and small

481
00:28:45,172 --> 00:28:48,852
well i agree with that but like that's everybody everyone's got dreams for bitcoin and their dreams

482
00:28:48,852 --> 00:28:54,372
for bitcoin are stupid and small like bitcoin you know like no one could have foreseen the automobile

483
00:28:54,372 --> 00:28:58,852
no one maybe some people who are working on it could have foreseen ai maybe some people could

484
00:28:58,852 --> 00:29:04,372
have foreseen you know like whatever um nvidia is making chips like bitcoin proceeds like a lot of

485
00:29:04,372 --> 00:29:10,053
this like what happens ethereum uh what i call a scam comes out trying to take a different kind

486
00:29:10,053 --> 00:29:13,513
kind of market. It's a stupid market for it to take, but people are mining it. Therefore,

487
00:29:13,592 --> 00:29:17,212
NVIDIA is like, we got to make these chips. NVIDIA makes a bunch of chips, gets really,

488
00:29:17,212 --> 00:29:22,212
like really valuable on the back of Ethereum. Then all of a sudden AI is announced. We're like,

489
00:29:22,273 --> 00:29:27,273
hey, by the way, we need these chips. It's almost like Bitcoin was like created by an AI back.

490
00:29:28,952 --> 00:29:31,432
Well, the government might have had AI back then.

491
00:29:32,273 --> 00:29:36,732
Maybe Bitcoin is an AI. And it was like, I need to devise the greatest scheme in history

492
00:29:36,732 --> 00:29:38,672
to have NVIDIA make chips

493
00:29:38,672 --> 00:29:41,172
so that AI can become a thing in the future.

494
00:29:41,732 --> 00:29:43,872
And it only took 15 years really for it.

495
00:29:43,932 --> 00:29:45,692
What, 16 years for it to do it?

496
00:29:46,432 --> 00:29:48,192
And that would be incredible.

497
00:29:48,472 --> 00:29:51,852
But Bitcoin's a global project.

498
00:29:52,513 --> 00:29:53,972
People that have dreams for it

499
00:29:53,972 --> 00:29:55,652
have dreams for it

500
00:29:55,652 --> 00:29:57,112
and they can have their dreams.

501
00:29:57,352 --> 00:29:59,092
And it's very selfish.

502
00:29:59,932 --> 00:30:01,252
Their dreams are going to be very small

503
00:30:01,252 --> 00:30:02,432
compared to what Bitcoin does.

504
00:30:02,952 --> 00:30:04,592
All my dream is that I hope that Bitcoin

505
00:30:04,592 --> 00:30:06,472
can always be used as freedom money.

506
00:30:06,732 --> 00:30:08,872
that's basically my only dream for Bitcoin.

507
00:30:09,273 --> 00:30:10,972
Because that's why I cared about it originally.

508
00:30:11,092 --> 00:30:12,152
It's why I still care about it today.

509
00:30:12,553 --> 00:30:14,192
I think they're the only properties

510
00:30:14,192 --> 00:30:16,813
that I need it to not lose for it to remain interesting.

511
00:30:19,392 --> 00:30:23,572
Yeah, but those properties are endemic to it.

512
00:30:23,832 --> 00:30:27,352
So the way it would lose them exclusively is through regulation.

513
00:30:27,632 --> 00:30:29,773
But that doesn't change the properties of the thing itself.

514
00:30:29,773 --> 00:30:30,172
Yeah.

515
00:30:30,773 --> 00:30:33,013
But I guess usability is important.

516
00:30:33,352 --> 00:30:35,332
You need to be able to actually use it as freedom money.

517
00:30:35,332 --> 00:30:47,553
Maybe. I mean, if you want things to skirt regulation, then maybe recruit some anarchist UI developers.

518
00:30:48,252 --> 00:30:49,712
I mean, they're here. That's for sure.

519
00:30:50,752 --> 00:30:57,013
It's just that everyone's going to work toward the regulatory thing being prettier and better.

520
00:30:57,533 --> 00:31:00,612
And the hard thing is always going to be uglier and harder.

521
00:31:00,612 --> 00:31:05,352
Yeah. I like throwing these narratives at you because you just basically say everything's dumb.

522
00:31:05,712 --> 00:31:06,452
Everything is dumb.

523
00:31:06,632 --> 00:31:09,892
But do you think Bitcoin will be the money of AI?

524
00:31:13,852 --> 00:31:16,612
AI is really dumb. No, I'm kidding. I'm just kidding.

525
00:31:17,732 --> 00:31:18,952
Will Bitcoin be the money of AI?

526
00:31:22,232 --> 00:31:25,652
I don't know. Maybe Tether will be the money of AI.

527
00:31:25,652 --> 00:31:27,452
It depends on what AI wants.

528
00:31:27,553 --> 00:31:34,952
If it's looking for stable currency to trade in, Tether is probably a better option for now than Bitcoin.

529
00:31:35,392 --> 00:31:37,652
But Tether runs on Bitcoin.

530
00:31:38,513 --> 00:31:39,293
And other blockchains.

531
00:31:39,952 --> 00:31:41,392
Yeah, but started on Bitcoin.

532
00:31:42,432 --> 00:31:48,072
Bitcoin is where all of this experimentation began, and it went to other blockchains for marketing purposes.

533
00:31:48,572 --> 00:31:50,313
And then eventually for liquidity.

534
00:31:50,313 --> 00:31:55,752
you know if you believe as i do that like the liquidity collapse like that liquidity collapses

535
00:31:55,752 --> 00:32:02,732
to bitcoin eventually like tethers on bitcoin right and so you know to me like maybe maybe

536
00:32:02,732 --> 00:32:07,553
tether maybe bitcoin i don't know i could see a world where it's both at least in the short period

537
00:32:07,553 --> 00:32:12,372
it's ai so like there's no reason it can't just use credit cards and well there is ach because

538
00:32:12,372 --> 00:32:15,992
like if it tries to buy something on a website with a credit card and it hits a security check

539
00:32:15,992 --> 00:32:21,232
what does it do well i mean i think the internet's going to change see i think this is what's going

540
00:32:21,232 --> 00:32:25,472
to happen with ai i don't think that like i don't think that you're going to necessarily like

541
00:32:25,472 --> 00:32:28,293
everyone's going to lose their jobs but i think the internet's going to fundamentally change i

542
00:32:28,293 --> 00:32:33,432
think the internet is going to become like heavily botted oh yeah for sure advertisements are going

543
00:32:33,432 --> 00:32:41,513
to be two ais you know uh websites might end up being like there might be entire sections of the

544
00:32:41,513 --> 00:32:48,513
internet that are just like blocks of code but it's just ap just api calls back and forth kind of

545
00:32:48,513 --> 00:32:53,872
i mean like ai doesn't need amazon to show them a picture of pretty shoes to buy them

546
00:32:53,872 --> 00:33:02,492
so if you if you have an agent if that is like if we go agentic in the future here

547
00:33:02,492 --> 00:33:08,813
where like everyone's got their own personal agent um which i think is not gonna work today

548
00:33:08,813 --> 00:33:14,832
but it's just because it's too hard it's just way too hard these things are expensive like unless

549
00:33:14,832 --> 00:33:21,072
you have unlimited funds you're not going to be able to go like have a have have a good agentic

550
00:33:21,072 --> 00:33:27,492
experience but might change in a year so if we're going to go agentic like if that actually is

551
00:33:27,492 --> 00:33:33,412
happening you're not going to necessarily be doing a lot of your grocery shopping you know so why

552
00:33:33,412 --> 00:33:38,832
does Instacart need to have like a picture of the raspberries, you know, for you to buy them.

553
00:33:38,952 --> 00:33:45,572
I don't know. So I don't know exactly. But like to me, as I'm watching traffic trends change on

554
00:33:45,572 --> 00:33:50,412
the internet, particularly with regard to ads, like it used to be that bots were taking over the

555
00:33:50,412 --> 00:33:56,152
web. And, you know, for whatever reason, people were just crawling, crawling, crawling, but that

556
00:33:56,152 --> 00:34:01,273
there was enough traffic of real people. I would say nowadays, I'm hearing and looking at like

557
00:34:01,273 --> 00:34:09,432
websites, content websites with 60, 40, 60 to 80% traffic from AIs, at least in the short term,

558
00:34:09,492 --> 00:34:14,913
that's been the case. And that's like incredible. Do you want to pay less in taxes and stack more

559
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568
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569
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577
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578
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Club Orange is a social app built for Bitcoiners

579
00:35:54,852 --> 00:35:57,052
where you can find meetups and events in your area

580
00:35:57,052 --> 00:35:58,992
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581
00:35:59,652 --> 00:36:01,712
There are over 19,000 Bitcoiners on there

582
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583
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584
00:36:05,413 --> 00:36:06,573
from all over the world.

585
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586
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and it really is awesome.

587
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So if you're on there, drop me a DM and say hi.

588
00:36:13,152 --> 00:36:15,152
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589
00:36:15,393 --> 00:36:17,032
just search for Club Orange on your app store

590
00:36:17,032 --> 00:36:18,913
or go to cluborange.org.

591
00:36:19,293 --> 00:36:20,512
But does that not get to the point

592
00:36:20,512 --> 00:36:21,873
where the internet just becomes unusable?

593
00:36:21,873 --> 00:36:24,232
if there's trillions of AI agents on there

594
00:36:24,232 --> 00:36:26,413
just publishing whatever?

595
00:36:27,073 --> 00:36:28,132
Because like Twitter already,

596
00:36:28,273 --> 00:36:29,692
like the bots on Twitter are insane.

597
00:36:29,813 --> 00:36:31,152
I mean, the Ouroboros effect.

598
00:36:32,313 --> 00:36:32,972
What's that?

599
00:36:33,913 --> 00:36:36,352
Ouroboros is a snake eating its own tail, right?

600
00:36:36,393 --> 00:36:40,132
So like at the point AI is consuming AI content

601
00:36:40,132 --> 00:36:42,452
and then using that to train AI,

602
00:36:43,332 --> 00:36:44,852
I don't know what you end up with

603
00:36:44,852 --> 00:36:48,352
because you might end up with something incredible

604
00:36:48,352 --> 00:36:49,972
or you more than likely end up

605
00:36:49,972 --> 00:36:51,632
with something inscrutable and stupid.

606
00:36:51,873 --> 00:36:57,252
and it happens real quick because AI just can make a lot of bad content really quickly.

607
00:36:57,893 --> 00:36:58,832
So I don't know.

608
00:36:59,552 --> 00:37:00,052
I don't know.

609
00:37:00,692 --> 00:37:02,692
I've been wondering about that since the day it started

610
00:37:02,692 --> 00:37:05,352
because the first thing I heard is everyone's going to not have jobs.

611
00:37:05,432 --> 00:37:07,432
I'm like, well, then that means AI is going to be the only thing writing,

612
00:37:07,552 --> 00:37:10,093
and if AI is the only thing writing, then AI is the only thing training AI.

613
00:37:10,992 --> 00:37:12,192
Which is already kind of happening.

614
00:37:12,492 --> 00:37:14,352
AI models are training the next AI models.

615
00:37:14,352 --> 00:37:17,172
Yeah, but they're training it with data that existed before.

616
00:37:17,432 --> 00:37:20,852
So it's just the problem is if the entire internet becomes like,

617
00:37:21,873 --> 00:37:30,552
AI is philosophizing to themselves about religions that they can follow. It's really weird.

618
00:37:31,072 --> 00:37:35,132
I guess that's the point where AI then over time just gets worse, not better.

619
00:37:35,313 --> 00:37:38,572
Yeah, I think so. I think it just gets worse and worse. It doesn't improve at that stage.

620
00:37:38,572 --> 00:37:46,352
Whereas if it's practicing on... I think AI in some sense needs to interact with the real world.

621
00:37:46,352 --> 00:37:49,793
if AI is purely digital

622
00:37:49,793 --> 00:37:52,452
and interacting with digital world only

623
00:37:52,452 --> 00:37:54,972
then it's going to be

624
00:37:54,972 --> 00:37:59,373
very difficult for it to become better

625
00:37:59,373 --> 00:38:02,992
I think that's often true of the Bitcoin stuff

626
00:38:02,992 --> 00:38:06,192
and again this is the autistic living in his room dream

627
00:38:06,192 --> 00:38:10,572
I just live on the internet and become better

628
00:38:10,572 --> 00:38:12,813
and if you don't interact with the real world

629
00:38:12,813 --> 00:38:14,913
you become better at coding maybe

630
00:38:14,913 --> 00:38:17,132
but like nothing, you don't become better at baseball.

631
00:38:17,552 --> 00:38:19,132
You don't become better at understanding

632
00:38:19,132 --> 00:38:23,552
like what people like or enjoy or, you know, whatever.

633
00:38:24,732 --> 00:38:27,893
And that's, I think that it's going to be very difficult

634
00:38:27,893 --> 00:38:30,492
for AIs if they don't operate in the real world as well.

635
00:38:30,873 --> 00:38:32,572
So this is like the idea that for AI

636
00:38:32,572 --> 00:38:34,692
to actually get to sort of AGI,

637
00:38:34,873 --> 00:38:37,373
it needs to have some sort of plain pleasure response.

638
00:38:37,532 --> 00:38:38,652
Depends on what you mean by AGI

639
00:38:38,652 --> 00:38:39,692
because like eight months ago,

640
00:38:39,752 --> 00:38:42,293
AGI meant that AI was the singularity.

641
00:38:42,293 --> 00:38:46,652
and I then said, AGI will never happen.

642
00:38:47,112 --> 00:38:49,032
And now AGI means that like,

643
00:38:49,052 --> 00:38:50,552
it's like a little better than it is now.

644
00:38:51,212 --> 00:38:52,813
So when you say, what do you mean?

645
00:38:52,873 --> 00:38:55,112
Maybe like super intelligence is a better word

646
00:38:55,112 --> 00:38:57,992
or, you know, I think you can't go as far as-

647
00:38:57,992 --> 00:38:58,832
How do you define super?

648
00:38:58,852 --> 00:39:00,552
Cause like it can beat everybody in chess, right?

649
00:39:00,632 --> 00:39:01,913
Yeah, and it's really hard

650
00:39:01,913 --> 00:39:03,893
cause like you almost want to say conscious

651
00:39:03,893 --> 00:39:05,152
but it's not going to be conscious.

652
00:39:05,472 --> 00:39:08,913
But like, I guess perpetually self-improving,

653
00:39:08,972 --> 00:39:10,773
I think it needs a pleasure response

654
00:39:10,773 --> 00:39:12,532
to have like the right incentives.

655
00:39:12,652 --> 00:39:13,512
It needs to go out into the world

656
00:39:13,512 --> 00:39:14,712
and experience things, I feel.

657
00:39:14,873 --> 00:39:18,873
And that's where the AI robots get more interesting.

658
00:39:19,393 --> 00:39:20,732
Like imagine if every AI robot

659
00:39:20,732 --> 00:39:23,893
was like its own sort of self-hosted LLM

660
00:39:23,893 --> 00:39:26,152
that reported back to the mothership type thing.

661
00:39:26,273 --> 00:39:28,612
Then it would have its own unique set of experiences.

662
00:39:29,273 --> 00:39:32,913
And I think that's where it can truly be considered

663
00:39:32,913 --> 00:39:33,952
like super intelligent AI,

664
00:39:34,052 --> 00:39:35,492
whatever term you want to put on that.

665
00:39:35,612 --> 00:39:37,813
Would you call this like a Borg of sorts?

666
00:39:37,992 --> 00:39:38,413
I guess.

667
00:39:38,413 --> 00:39:53,512
I think in some ways, like I, I, I see these like futurists, like Rick Hertz, while talking about

668
00:39:53,512 --> 00:39:59,592
how the world is going to be and they're perpetually incorrect, perpetually nothing

669
00:39:59,592 --> 00:40:05,032
they think is going to happen has ever occurred. And yet Google pays them massive amounts of money

670
00:40:05,032 --> 00:40:10,832
to come and speak as if they're like an alien from outer space explaining to you for the first

671
00:40:10,832 --> 00:40:14,852
time what the future of the world will be. But someone's got to have a swing. Everyone can't

672
00:40:14,852 --> 00:40:23,212
just be like, I swing all the time and I'm just so right. So off this stuff. I like, I, I, I think

673
00:40:23,212 --> 00:40:28,773
with like this, this AI stuff, I have a lot of difficulty because there's, we're clearly seeing

674
00:40:28,773 --> 00:40:34,612
some new stuff come on. I do think AI is potentially as revolutionary as the internet.

675
00:40:35,032 --> 00:40:37,832
however revolutionary you think that was.

676
00:40:37,832 --> 00:40:38,832
Very.

677
00:40:38,832 --> 00:40:43,332
Yeah, but I don't know that it achieved everybody's dreams, right?

678
00:40:43,332 --> 00:40:58,985
So I keep getting called an AI bear because I like instead of the internet basically putting every single person out of a job making every single digital everything you know obsolete whatever

679
00:40:59,845 --> 00:41:05,585
maybe it'll end up in like a, you know, place where you buy pants and shoes, you know, for the

680
00:41:05,585 --> 00:41:11,185
most part, and then, you know, allow us to communicate and, you know, whatever. So there's,

681
00:41:11,305 --> 00:41:15,045
there's great things the internet has done, incredible opportunities. It's opened up,

682
00:41:15,045 --> 00:41:18,005
you know, amazing efficiencies.

683
00:41:20,305 --> 00:41:26,125
And, and it's made us a better, better as a society in some ways and worse in others,

684
00:41:26,125 --> 00:41:30,625
like the consequences of it, I think we have not necessarily fully dealt with, nor like

685
00:41:30,625 --> 00:41:34,825
seen what they fully are. Right. Are you really talking about social media here?

686
00:41:36,225 --> 00:41:42,885
I guess I like, to me, that's sort of like a small, I'm honestly, like, I, I think outsourcing

687
00:41:42,885 --> 00:41:50,105
the ease of outsourcing yeah the reduction of quality like have you ever used a phone from the

688
00:41:50,105 --> 00:41:58,205
90s how old are you uh i'm 30 nearly 35 so barely yeah the i think the first phone i had was a nokia

689
00:41:58,205 --> 00:42:04,865
3310 you mean a cell phone yeah okay oh do you mean like a natural like house like landline yeah

690
00:42:04,865 --> 00:42:09,865
oh yeah of course i use one yeah copper to copper yeah it's uh it's not digital

691
00:42:09,865 --> 00:42:16,525
right it's analog the quality is like you're standing next to the person yeah there's not

692
00:42:16,525 --> 00:42:21,945
you're not like i can't hear you your signal's bad you know that stuff yeah

693
00:42:21,945 --> 00:42:30,545
we sacrificed like high fidelity for bad fidelity talk to people anywhere

694
00:42:30,545 --> 00:42:37,965
and so there's consequences to that is it better i think we've all decided it is

695
00:42:37,965 --> 00:42:45,865
there's consequences and that's like a lot of a lot of life is like that where we've given up

696
00:42:45,865 --> 00:42:55,325
quality for like sort of anywhereness furniture i want to move 42 times before i'm 38 so i buy

697
00:42:55,325 --> 00:43:01,045
a hundred dollar furniture and instead of like ordering a craftsman home from sears that has

698
00:43:01,045 --> 00:43:06,845
the furniture built into the walls you know what i mean and that lasts 135 years before it like

699
00:43:06,845 --> 00:43:08,545
ever needs to be looked at again.

700
00:43:08,685 --> 00:43:10,865
I know this is, you're going to, again, you're going to call me dumb here,

701
00:43:10,925 --> 00:43:12,105
but like, I think there is.

702
00:43:12,105 --> 00:43:12,985
I really call you dumb.

703
00:43:13,925 --> 00:43:16,665
There is like a fiat element to that as well, though.

704
00:43:17,025 --> 00:43:20,025
Like when you consider how expensive, like handcrafted.

705
00:43:20,025 --> 00:43:20,305
That's dumb.

706
00:43:20,865 --> 00:43:21,105
Yeah.

707
00:43:21,345 --> 00:43:24,165
But like, when you consider how expensive like a handcrafted table is

708
00:43:24,165 --> 00:43:25,585
compared to like the average salary,

709
00:43:25,585 --> 00:43:27,585
and then you compare that to like my parents' generation,

710
00:43:27,665 --> 00:43:28,465
there's a big difference there.

711
00:43:28,505 --> 00:43:28,965
I don't think so.

712
00:43:29,705 --> 00:43:30,365
No, I don't think so.

713
00:43:30,625 --> 00:43:32,825
I think there is, but I think that it's not just.

714
00:43:32,845 --> 00:43:33,685
Wait, like, why can't they go?

715
00:43:33,785 --> 00:43:35,845
But it's also, it's the loss of craftsmanship.

716
00:43:35,845 --> 00:43:40,345
a handicrafted table used to be made by your grandpa exactly like that's not true like it

717
00:43:40,345 --> 00:43:49,145
you can still go get lumber from home depot you could make a 1990s era red oak table uh for

718
00:43:49,145 --> 00:43:54,345
maybe 800 in wood i think you're right there because like my dad could build a nice table i

719
00:43:54,345 --> 00:44:00,585
couldn't yeah i mean you could if you watch enough pornography about videos uh woodworking though

720
00:44:00,585 --> 00:44:04,885
yeah true yeah it's like the whole world now just learns everything that's that's actually the

721
00:44:04,885 --> 00:44:08,805
The interesting thing, like it's, it's the sort of information has been democratized.

722
00:44:08,845 --> 00:44:11,665
Like you can go on YouTube and watch, I'm sure there's tens of thousands of videos of

723
00:44:11,665 --> 00:44:13,485
how to make a really nice table, but no one does it.

724
00:44:14,045 --> 00:44:14,405
Yeah.

725
00:44:14,545 --> 00:44:15,165
Or very few people.

726
00:44:15,165 --> 00:44:15,885
It's because it's porn.

727
00:44:16,485 --> 00:44:18,265
It's titillating, especially to men.

728
00:44:18,685 --> 00:44:19,365
It's pornography.

729
00:44:19,785 --> 00:44:19,985
Yeah.

730
00:44:20,085 --> 00:44:22,665
So like you want to make a, you want to make an heirloom table.

731
00:44:22,845 --> 00:44:26,525
You can watch someone go make an heirloom table and fantasize about how you would do

732
00:44:26,525 --> 00:44:26,885
it too.

733
00:44:27,105 --> 00:44:31,345
See, mine is a, the people that go out into like the woods in Alaska and camp with nothing.

734
00:44:31,825 --> 00:44:32,665
I've never, I've never done it.

735
00:44:32,685 --> 00:44:34,365
I never want to do it, but that's the thing I watch.

736
00:44:34,365 --> 00:44:36,425
That's your titillating pornography.

737
00:44:36,825 --> 00:44:37,925
But now you know how to do it.

738
00:44:38,045 --> 00:44:38,525
That's true.

739
00:44:38,625 --> 00:44:38,805
Yeah.

740
00:44:38,925 --> 00:44:40,725
Although I stick me in that situation, I'm dead in a week.

741
00:44:40,725 --> 00:44:42,245
You can learn in two ways.

742
00:44:42,405 --> 00:44:46,665
You can have generational knowledge passed down through the generations by the old folks.

743
00:44:47,205 --> 00:44:48,965
Or you can learn through pornography.

744
00:44:48,965 --> 00:44:58,385
And I think the latchkey generation and many others after it learned their sex from Playboy and other places.

745
00:44:58,385 --> 00:45:06,625
and uh you know the modern day child is learning sex from you know ex hamster and and you porn and

746
00:45:06,625 --> 00:45:13,125
porn tube and porn hub and i mean you know all of them obviously these are we discussed this earlier

747
00:45:13,125 --> 00:45:22,885
a longer list than i did and so so like you can learn you can learn sex through watching people

748
00:45:22,885 --> 00:45:28,665
have it uh which is what like the modern generation has done and it's the same with everything else

749
00:45:28,665 --> 00:45:32,825
it's just you you can learn from the old generations you can learn by being hands-on or you can learn

750
00:45:32,825 --> 00:45:38,645
through porn and there are consequences to that so it's not i'm like to the earlier question it's

751
00:45:38,645 --> 00:45:44,925
not social media so much that like i'm that worried about like i don't mind you know phone books

752
00:45:44,925 --> 00:45:51,585
online which is essentially what like most social media is but i am i'm like i said i'm a ludist i

753
00:45:51,585 --> 00:45:56,485
I don't know how to use most social media, to be honest, and I don't really care.

754
00:45:56,625 --> 00:46:02,165
Because I just think that the world is made for humans.

755
00:46:03,505 --> 00:46:09,665
Whether you believe in God or not, none of this matters if it's not for our pleasure.

756
00:46:10,805 --> 00:46:18,125
And so I don't spend a lot of my time indoors experiencing the pleasure of surfing the internet.

757
00:46:18,125 --> 00:46:33,065
Like, I'd rather go into nature and look at it and be amazed and in awe of a thunderstorm that's happening and take care of my yard and trees and plants and stuff like that.

758
00:46:33,125 --> 00:46:40,065
I'd rather be tending to my external environment than tending to the environment that I can create internally.

759
00:46:40,065 --> 00:46:50,045
And if there's like automations that I can make that allow me to do that better and more quickly, oftentimes I'll take advantage of those.

760
00:46:50,125 --> 00:46:53,145
Like this morning, I put a gardener out of business with AI.

761
00:46:53,585 --> 00:46:55,245
I put a timer on my hose.

762
00:46:58,145 --> 00:47:02,725
But so essentially, I started this by saying, do you think people will revolt against this?

763
00:47:03,025 --> 00:47:05,865
And actually, AI could be a way off the Internet for a lot of people.

764
00:47:06,325 --> 00:47:08,785
AI could be the interface between you and the internet

765
00:47:08,785 --> 00:47:10,305
without you having to go on the internet.

766
00:47:10,525 --> 00:47:12,185
Yeah, that's kind of what I'm saying, though.

767
00:47:12,285 --> 00:47:15,965
I think that there is a world in which people use AI

768
00:47:15,965 --> 00:47:18,585
to go do the things that people used to do.

769
00:47:19,525 --> 00:47:22,665
And I think that that frees up a lot of your own time.

770
00:47:23,045 --> 00:47:24,305
And I don't think necessarily,

771
00:47:24,305 --> 00:47:29,705
I'm not going to lament the loss of Instacart shoppers

772
00:47:29,705 --> 00:47:31,865
or something, but maybe that doesn't get lost, right?

773
00:47:31,925 --> 00:47:33,485
Maybe Instacart shoppers remain

774
00:47:33,485 --> 00:47:34,765
and maybe Uber drivers remain

775
00:47:34,765 --> 00:47:37,425
or maybe eventually they're replaced by actual robots, right?

776
00:47:37,645 --> 00:47:38,265
I don't know.

777
00:47:39,145 --> 00:47:41,125
Maybe you have a robot kitchen in your house

778
00:47:41,125 --> 00:47:43,645
that makes Chef Ramsay-type dishes.

779
00:47:43,985 --> 00:47:46,265
That's an American HODL idea to talk about.

780
00:47:46,445 --> 00:47:51,865
But maybe that's the kind of thing that happens.

781
00:47:51,865 --> 00:47:56,305
But yeah, I do think that if there's anything really good about AI,

782
00:47:56,805 --> 00:47:58,625
it's the promise that you as an individual

783
00:47:58,625 --> 00:48:00,605
will have the opportunity possibly

784
00:48:00,605 --> 00:48:03,325
to do more interaction with the external world.

785
00:48:03,325 --> 00:48:06,905
and I don't think that's what the autists are thinking is going to happen.

786
00:48:07,365 --> 00:48:11,925
I think that they think your whole life is going to be like taken over by the AI monster.

787
00:48:11,925 --> 00:48:18,885
Whereas I'm thinking like this sounds, AI sounds to me like the promises that were made to me about IoT.

788
00:48:20,085 --> 00:48:25,445
Everyone, every company in the world wanted to be the hub of your home and they all tried.

789
00:48:26,325 --> 00:48:31,225
Microsoft, Honeywell, PlayStation, Sony, every.

790
00:48:31,445 --> 00:48:31,945
Amazon, Apple.

791
00:48:31,945 --> 00:48:34,285
Amazon, Apple, all wanted to be the hub of your home.

792
00:48:34,465 --> 00:48:38,145
And then what happened is some of them were made the hub,

793
00:48:38,225 --> 00:48:39,985
and they were like, what the fuck are we getting from this?

794
00:48:40,025 --> 00:48:41,225
What information are we gleaning?

795
00:48:41,885 --> 00:48:43,605
Nothing, nothing, nothing.

796
00:48:43,785 --> 00:48:45,185
And they tried it in the thermostat.

797
00:48:45,325 --> 00:48:48,665
They tried it in the home speaker systems.

798
00:48:49,485 --> 00:48:49,885
Doorbell.

799
00:48:50,185 --> 00:48:51,545
Yeah, in the doorbell.

800
00:48:51,765 --> 00:48:52,825
They tried everything.

801
00:48:53,105 --> 00:48:54,645
We'll make the doorbell the hub of the home.

802
00:48:54,745 --> 00:48:56,025
We'll make whatever it is.

803
00:48:56,805 --> 00:48:57,685
Nothing worked.

804
00:48:57,685 --> 00:49:03,725
And what people ended up doing is kind of like mishmashing ecosystems together.

805
00:49:04,325 --> 00:49:10,385
The true IoT people have really discovered that they maybe want their speaker system on IoT, if you will.

806
00:49:10,645 --> 00:49:14,365
They maybe want some plugs on IoT.

807
00:49:14,785 --> 00:49:17,025
They like their garage door on IoT.

808
00:49:17,445 --> 00:49:22,585
And then every other thing in their home, they want offline for the most part.

809
00:49:22,925 --> 00:49:24,725
Maybe a few extra things, right?

810
00:49:24,725 --> 00:49:30,185
But the IOT world was one in which everyone was attached.

811
00:49:30,465 --> 00:49:31,865
Your shoes were on the internet.

812
00:49:33,005 --> 00:49:35,105
And I was told that was going to be a great world.

813
00:49:35,365 --> 00:49:37,685
But then when I heard that, I was like, that's stupid.

814
00:49:37,925 --> 00:49:43,425
That's, again, another world created by an autistic retard sitting in his room going, it's better this way.

815
00:49:43,965 --> 00:49:45,405
And that's not how the world is.

816
00:49:45,465 --> 00:49:46,865
I don't opt to live in that world.

817
00:49:48,005 --> 00:49:52,545
I don't want to replace the batteries in my light switch every four years.

818
00:49:52,545 --> 00:49:55,425
because that's fucking gay.

819
00:49:57,605 --> 00:50:01,225
But I think the world that you're painting there

820
00:50:01,225 --> 00:50:03,545
is very sort of utopian.

821
00:50:03,685 --> 00:50:05,285
It sounds great if you don't have to-

822
00:50:05,285 --> 00:50:05,745
Which world?

823
00:50:05,905 --> 00:50:07,645
I didn't say anything utopian.

824
00:50:07,745 --> 00:50:10,265
I was talking about the world remaining a lot like it is.

825
00:50:10,465 --> 00:50:12,805
But it's like you're saying everyone will have more time

826
00:50:12,805 --> 00:50:14,905
to go outside, touch grass, think, walk, whatever.

827
00:50:15,785 --> 00:50:16,525
That's great.

828
00:50:16,865 --> 00:50:18,425
But what do they do for their jobs?

829
00:50:18,925 --> 00:50:22,185
Because if it does replace a big portion

830
00:50:22,185 --> 00:50:23,205
of white collar work,

831
00:50:23,245 --> 00:50:24,425
which I think it has the potential to do.

832
00:50:24,525 --> 00:50:25,805
In Australia, you guys can go back to

833
00:50:25,805 --> 00:50:28,305
in America, we got other sorts.

834
00:50:29,245 --> 00:50:30,125
That's getting cut.

835
00:50:30,405 --> 00:50:31,185
I know.

836
00:50:31,385 --> 00:50:32,265
That's getting cut.

837
00:50:35,765 --> 00:50:37,865
There's always one part of you that gets cut.

838
00:50:39,805 --> 00:50:40,965
So in, in,

839
00:50:41,185 --> 00:50:44,065
the reality is that when people have more time,

840
00:50:45,605 --> 00:50:47,105
Daddy, you can't handle the jokes.

841
00:50:47,525 --> 00:50:48,225
I can,

842
00:50:48,845 --> 00:50:50,925
but I'm not being associated with the jokes.

843
00:50:51,705 --> 00:50:54,205
I feel like I wouldn't be allowed to go to Australia if I tried.

844
00:50:54,365 --> 00:50:55,505
I don't think you're allowed already.

845
00:50:56,265 --> 00:50:58,565
So, I mean, the thing is, people have more time.

846
00:50:58,625 --> 00:50:59,445
You might get f***ed.

847
00:50:59,785 --> 00:51:01,105
I think that's getting cut, too.

848
00:51:01,865 --> 00:51:02,425
Which one?

849
00:51:03,005 --> 00:51:03,365
Both.

850
00:51:03,665 --> 00:51:04,485
Everything's getting cut.

851
00:51:04,845 --> 00:51:05,665
The whole thing's cut.

852
00:51:05,805 --> 00:51:06,185
No more.

853
00:51:06,185 --> 00:51:10,065
I think that when people have a lot of time,

854
00:51:10,345 --> 00:51:14,965
you have the ability to do more things and think about more things.

855
00:51:15,705 --> 00:51:20,685
I think people underestimate the need for men to create, in particular.

856
00:51:20,925 --> 00:51:24,465
Like I'm often called a sexist,

857
00:51:24,465 --> 00:51:27,025
but I just believe men and women are really different people.

858
00:51:28,205 --> 00:51:28,685
And men.

859
00:51:28,905 --> 00:51:29,165
I think they're different people.

860
00:51:29,325 --> 00:51:29,645
What's that?

861
00:51:29,705 --> 00:51:30,305
I think they're different.

862
00:51:30,545 --> 00:51:30,805
Yeah.

863
00:51:31,165 --> 00:51:31,885
I'm not saying that like women.

864
00:51:31,885 --> 00:51:33,445
It's not one's better, one's worse, but they're different.

865
00:51:33,985 --> 00:51:35,425
Being a man is more awesome.

866
00:51:36,085 --> 00:51:39,465
You know, external pudenda is awesome.

867
00:51:42,325 --> 00:51:44,385
It's just like less showering, you know?

868
00:51:46,205 --> 00:51:48,725
So like, you know, the thing is like,

869
00:51:48,725 --> 00:51:55,805
Men have a drive that forces them to be, to produce.

870
00:51:57,485 --> 00:52:00,665
That drive is hot chicks.

871
00:52:01,865 --> 00:52:05,305
And I think like for whatever reason,

872
00:52:05,305 --> 00:52:09,365
it seems like a lot of that motivation has been reduced over the last couple,

873
00:52:09,625 --> 00:52:10,345
last few years.

874
00:52:10,345 --> 00:52:12,505
And I don't know what the reason is,

875
00:52:12,505 --> 00:52:17,965
but like a lot of men have abandoned attempting to like impress hot chicks

876
00:52:17,965 --> 00:52:18,345
anymore.

877
00:52:18,725 --> 00:52:23,085
But I do think that there's a world in which a lot of that motivation comes back because it's biological.

878
00:52:23,945 --> 00:52:29,465
And I think if there's more time to be outside and do things, men are going to create more things.

879
00:52:30,305 --> 00:52:33,365
And they might, the good ones are going to use AI to do it, right?

880
00:52:33,365 --> 00:52:39,125
Like, I talk regularly about like my own little projects.

881
00:52:39,365 --> 00:52:42,825
I have lots of little projects that I do just for fun for myself.

882
00:52:43,845 --> 00:52:46,285
But I enjoy scaling things.

883
00:52:46,765 --> 00:52:48,245
I make a wood finish.

884
00:52:48,725 --> 00:52:54,485
in my garage I know exactly how long it takes me to make it I know how many I can make with like a

885
00:52:54,485 --> 00:53:01,845
you know whatever size whatever I make right and so I'll make it in my garage with my recipe

886
00:53:01,845 --> 00:53:10,085
I know that it takes me 30 minutes to make X number of you know jars and I sell it for X amount

887
00:53:10,085 --> 00:53:15,985
this much profit is how much I get I don't do anything like that unless I'm making $500 an hour

888
00:53:15,985 --> 00:53:26,505
but i sell eight a month you know for a profit of you know 13 a thing right but

889
00:53:26,505 --> 00:53:33,585
all of my hours combined are 500 an hour and if i had 15 little jobs like that

890
00:53:33,585 --> 00:53:43,745
then i would be you know making 500 an hour from 15 jobs maybe the future is everyone's got 45 jobs

891
00:53:43,745 --> 00:53:46,485
Maybe they're growing tomatoes and selling them at Trader Joe's.

892
00:53:46,545 --> 00:53:47,005
I don't know.

893
00:53:48,625 --> 00:53:53,245
But if everyone's got time, then we can think of things to do.

894
00:53:54,105 --> 00:53:55,485
I'm not worried about that.

895
00:53:55,565 --> 00:53:56,705
Like, that's what everyone's like, what are we doing?

896
00:53:56,765 --> 00:53:57,525
Everyone's out of a job.

897
00:53:57,665 --> 00:54:00,105
We know what to do when everyone's out of a job.

898
00:54:00,425 --> 00:54:01,405
Go make a job.

899
00:54:01,785 --> 00:54:03,865
But see, that's not the part that necessarily worries me.

900
00:54:03,925 --> 00:54:06,925
It's the part that is like the step between here and there.

901
00:54:07,205 --> 00:54:10,005
Because if like you said, you don't think it's going to happen fast.

902
00:54:10,065 --> 00:54:11,305
I think it is going to happen fast.

903
00:54:12,225 --> 00:54:16,225
If it does, and we have 5% of the country unemployed,

904
00:54:17,225 --> 00:54:19,965
then 5% of the country are now no longer servicing debt.

905
00:54:20,205 --> 00:54:21,485
What does that do to the economy?

906
00:54:22,545 --> 00:54:24,965
I think if people can't afford their mortgage,

907
00:54:25,985 --> 00:54:30,165
then do we go into a 2008-style financial crisis?

908
00:54:30,425 --> 00:54:31,185
Do we have UBI?

909
00:54:31,365 --> 00:54:32,105
What happens there?

910
00:54:32,125 --> 00:54:33,705
All these things are like punctuations.

911
00:54:34,025 --> 00:54:36,165
You have a punctuated three to five-year period.

912
00:54:36,165 --> 00:54:36,665
They're not.

913
00:54:36,885 --> 00:54:37,945
They're three to five years.

914
00:54:38,145 --> 00:54:40,245
We have the Great Recession.

915
00:54:41,305 --> 00:54:42,805
Were you jobless during the Great Recession?

916
00:54:44,085 --> 00:54:45,085
I was like 17.

917
00:54:45,505 --> 00:54:45,805
Okay.

918
00:54:46,165 --> 00:54:47,125
Were your parents jobless?

919
00:54:47,125 --> 00:54:48,425
I did have a job, but...

920
00:54:48,425 --> 00:54:50,725
You had a job during the Great Recession at 17.

921
00:54:50,825 --> 00:54:51,245
Your parents?

922
00:54:51,265 --> 00:54:51,665
I was washing pots.

923
00:54:51,665 --> 00:54:52,165
What about your parents?

924
00:54:53,105 --> 00:54:57,065
My dad had his own business, kept the business,

925
00:54:57,245 --> 00:54:59,005
definitely did worse during it.

926
00:54:59,285 --> 00:54:59,465
Yeah.

927
00:55:00,365 --> 00:55:01,065
But you had a job.

928
00:55:01,625 --> 00:55:04,465
Do you know a lot of other people that were jobless

929
00:55:04,465 --> 00:55:05,525
or most of the people that you knew?

930
00:55:05,605 --> 00:55:06,825
I know people that lost homes

931
00:55:06,825 --> 00:55:08,305
or had to at least downsize homes.

932
00:55:08,385 --> 00:55:08,545
Okay.

933
00:55:08,645 --> 00:55:09,365
They did downsize.

934
00:55:09,505 --> 00:55:10,965
Not that tragic, to be honest.

935
00:55:11,305 --> 00:55:13,625
I mean, see, the tricky thing here is like,

936
00:55:13,625 --> 00:55:15,785
I was like lucky.

937
00:55:16,025 --> 00:55:17,825
I was amongst like, I went to private school.

938
00:55:17,945 --> 00:55:18,485
I had like-

939
00:55:18,485 --> 00:55:19,225
Most people are though.

940
00:55:20,585 --> 00:55:22,305
Most people, I don't know.

941
00:55:22,325 --> 00:55:22,785
Is that true?

942
00:55:22,925 --> 00:55:24,505
Like by definition, can that be true?

943
00:55:24,705 --> 00:55:25,345
Yes, it's true.

944
00:55:25,505 --> 00:55:27,665
Most people are in like a privilege enough,

945
00:55:27,985 --> 00:55:29,965
like at least of the people that, you know,

946
00:55:30,565 --> 00:55:33,105
in these societies that are producing and doing things.

947
00:55:33,865 --> 00:55:34,085
Yeah.

948
00:55:35,225 --> 00:55:39,105
Yeah, the eaters, the eaters might lose their jobs,

949
00:55:39,105 --> 00:55:48,485
but like a lot of people are producers and and they will find work i'm not too worried about it

950
00:55:48,485 --> 00:56:00,345
like i i remember reading in uh an article by um it was eb white talking about how he lived through

951
00:56:00,345 --> 00:56:06,785
the um great depression is the editor of the new yorker at the time and saying that like

952
00:56:06,785 --> 00:56:12,845
he barely noticed it was happening which you know you read the history of it like how could you not

953
00:56:12,845 --> 00:56:18,065
notice this was happening in the reality is that like i look back at the 2008 financial crisis i

954
00:56:18,065 --> 00:56:25,445
graduated into it got a job lived in new york like got a crappy place like every kid who gets a job

955
00:56:25,445 --> 00:56:32,445
in new york out of college does lived on top of someone's kitchen in like a four by five by eight

956
00:56:32,445 --> 00:56:39,765
foot like like hollow and a futon bed that they pushed up there for me and they needed some help

957
00:56:39,765 --> 00:56:48,165
so i rented it for 550 a month which i didn't have um so this is like you know the story of

958
00:56:48,165 --> 00:56:53,165
every major depression is that like there's a bunch of people who can't get work or can't find

959
00:56:53,165 --> 00:56:59,905
jobs or lose their jobs and and it sucks for like a portion of people but it's not that it's it's not

960
00:56:59,905 --> 00:57:02,845
But the tricky thing there is, like, what happened?

961
00:57:02,845 --> 00:57:05,845
We know what happened to the wealth divide since then, and it's only got worse.

962
00:57:05,845 --> 00:57:09,585
And you're lucky in that situation, because I guess about that time is when you found

963
00:57:09,585 --> 00:57:11,425
Bitcoin, not long after, at least.

964
00:57:11,425 --> 00:57:16,485
And so, like, you have had a very unusual experience post-financial crisis, whereas

965
00:57:16,485 --> 00:57:21,425
most people have comparatively got poorer compared to the people, like-

966
00:57:21,425 --> 00:57:23,385
I don't think that's true.

967
00:57:23,385 --> 00:57:24,505
I just don't think that's true.

968
00:57:24,505 --> 00:57:28,425
Like, I think that, like, in the last couple of years with, like, great inflation, that's

969
00:57:28,425 --> 00:57:33,105
true but we had like 10 years of really low inflation before that which you know made people

970
00:57:33,105 --> 00:57:37,745
comparatively rich look at the s p 500 for the last 10 years but these are all the asset owners

971
00:57:37,745 --> 00:57:43,185
you ever done the math of put like put money into like tqqq five ten thousand dollars in 2010 how

972
00:57:43,185 --> 00:57:49,485
much money you have today i don't know a lot how much 10 000 in 2010 uh 15 years

973
00:57:49,485 --> 00:57:56,285
500 000 i think it's like i think it's like two million dollars yeah that's really triple levered

974
00:57:56,285 --> 00:57:59,965
QQQs or something. But again, this is always focusing on the people that like can buy assets.

975
00:58:00,105 --> 00:58:03,785
It's $5,000. Yeah. There's a lot of people in America that don't have $5,000 spent.

976
00:58:04,625 --> 00:58:08,745
There's people that are bad at managing money. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not like, I'm not like,

977
00:58:09,085 --> 00:58:15,585
I don't find it that interesting to like discuss like the, uh, discuss people that like can't

978
00:58:15,585 --> 00:58:20,505
manage their money because like, yeah, those people are going to be like maybe out of jobs,

979
00:58:20,505 --> 00:58:23,165
but they don't have that important jobs.

980
00:58:23,565 --> 00:58:26,505
And they're like not managing themselves.

981
00:58:26,845 --> 00:58:28,585
But even if you don't think they have important jobs,

982
00:58:28,665 --> 00:58:30,765
like it does matter to society.

983
00:58:31,165 --> 00:58:31,385
Yeah.

984
00:58:31,925 --> 00:58:32,965
Well, it depends.

985
00:58:33,125 --> 00:58:33,785
It depends on what they're doing.

986
00:58:33,785 --> 00:58:35,805
Not even that the job necessarily matters to society.

987
00:58:35,805 --> 00:58:35,905
They're not creating the jobs.

988
00:58:36,105 --> 00:58:37,765
Someone else is going to come along.

989
00:58:37,865 --> 00:58:39,585
Someone else is going to make a job that they can do.

990
00:58:39,585 --> 00:58:43,005
But they're like, if it's a menial job, like they can.

991
00:58:43,225 --> 00:58:45,525
But it's not even that the job necessarily matters to society.

992
00:58:45,525 --> 00:58:49,165
It's the fact that like the wealth divide matters to society.

993
00:58:49,165 --> 00:58:52,965
I think there are less menial job takers than you think.

994
00:58:53,205 --> 00:58:54,565
That's what I'm trying to say is like,

995
00:58:54,605 --> 00:58:57,825
there are people that are taking menial jobs.

996
00:58:58,425 --> 00:59:00,045
How do I navigate this?

997
00:59:00,305 --> 00:59:02,785
Like I've already said things that are so offensive, I feel like.

998
00:59:03,005 --> 00:59:04,465
At least you, we all know this.

999
00:59:06,045 --> 00:59:09,405
There are people that have menial jobs that will keep them

1000
00:59:09,405 --> 00:59:10,945
and who can manage themselves, right?

1001
00:59:10,965 --> 00:59:14,145
Like there's people who work at McDonald's in a menial way

1002
00:59:14,145 --> 00:59:17,165
and like retire with millions of dollars

1003
00:59:17,165 --> 00:59:18,685
because they managed their life.

1004
00:59:19,165 --> 00:59:24,365
Um, I guess what I'm saying is, is like in a situation where there's turmoil like this,

1005
00:59:24,365 --> 00:59:30,025
or you think there's going to be turmoil from, from job loss, the people that don't manage their

1006
00:59:30,025 --> 00:59:34,545
lives now are going to have a lot of trouble navigating that, but they would have trouble

1007
00:59:34,545 --> 00:59:40,365
navigating every single crisis. And I'm not that worried about them. Cause I think there are more

1008
00:59:40,365 --> 00:59:47,405
people in the world that are managing themselves enough that we're not going to see like nine,

1009
00:59:47,405 --> 00:59:53,245
90% homeless rates across the United States because nobody has a job. You're going to end

1010
00:59:53,245 --> 00:59:57,845
up with people who are like, I got to feed my family. I'm going to sell peanuts door to door,

1011
00:59:58,365 --> 01:00:03,625
you know, and they'll do it. Might be back to like the Hoover salesman coming to your door to

1012
01:00:03,625 --> 01:00:09,205
sell vacuums. I don't know. But I do know that like people figure things out and I don't think

1013
01:00:09,205 --> 01:00:14,045
that it's going to be as fast as you think or as fast as anybody seems to think, despite the fact

1014
01:00:14,045 --> 01:00:19,465
that AI is advancing really quick, we'll see. I don't think that it's going to be like jobs lost

1015
01:00:19,465 --> 01:00:26,305
as fast as everybody thinks. And the reason is because I think people realize, particularly the

1016
01:00:26,305 --> 01:00:32,865
very wealthy, that you can't transition so quickly as to have your own house get burned down by

1017
01:00:32,865 --> 01:00:40,285
the plebeians who are coming and like, you know, burning the beast's gates, right? They know that

1018
01:00:40,285 --> 01:00:46,285
they have to transition probably over the course of a generation and they will do their best to do

1019
01:00:46,285 --> 01:00:53,905
it. And, uh, and a lot of the people that like, I think would be out of jobs here are hitting a

1020
01:00:53,905 --> 01:00:59,165
retirement age. Like we're like seeing sort of a boomer exodus from the workforce and like the new

1021
01:00:59,165 --> 01:01:02,825
group of people that are coming up there. A lot of them started working younger. They started

1022
01:01:02,825 --> 01:01:07,105
programming when they were in like eighth grade, you know, maybe they weren't saving money, but

1023
01:01:07,105 --> 01:01:09,445
They had well-paying jobs for many years.

1024
01:01:09,445 --> 01:01:11,105
And there's a lot of things that might change,

1025
01:01:11,105 --> 01:01:22,597
but a lot of them are also very aware of the changes that are coming Like when a journalist when you have the entire the entirety of the journalist class lose their jobs you don have riots in the streets

1026
01:01:24,577 --> 01:01:28,957
That's just like, those are the people that don't riot. Yeah, that's true. When you have

1027
01:01:28,957 --> 01:01:34,258
computer programmers all losing their job, they're like, good, I don't have to talk to anyone anymore.

1028
01:01:35,277 --> 01:01:38,777
You know? So I do think you said something interesting there, which is that like,

1029
01:01:38,777 --> 01:01:47,637
I think I agree that maybe the people most at risk here are the older workforce, because they're not going to be the ones that necessarily adapt to AI as quickly.

1030
01:01:48,258 --> 01:01:50,457
Like sweeping statement, but I think generally true.

1031
01:01:50,898 --> 01:01:57,057
And I think the younger kids, like I've got a kid similar age to you, to your kid, not to you.

1032
01:01:58,277 --> 01:01:59,518
I think they're going to be all right.

1033
01:01:59,537 --> 01:01:59,918
You're really old.

1034
01:02:01,037 --> 01:02:05,738
I think they're going to be all right, because there's going to be a lot of time to process what happens in the next 10, 15 years.

1035
01:02:05,738 --> 01:02:14,377
They're going to get to see, like, the world is going to be, like, whatever world develops, it's going to be massively different 20 years from now than it is today.

1036
01:02:14,418 --> 01:02:16,877
But, like, look at what people predicted 20 years ago.

1037
01:02:16,918 --> 01:02:21,657
They told us today, 20 years from then, that universities would be dead.

1038
01:02:24,777 --> 01:02:25,137
Yeah.

1039
01:02:25,218 --> 01:02:27,097
They told us that oil was going to be gone.

1040
01:02:27,518 --> 01:02:31,177
I mean, the Amazon rainforest is going to be completely burned down.

1041
01:02:31,758 --> 01:02:33,357
Like, none of this happened.

1042
01:02:33,357 --> 01:02:33,718
Yeah.

1043
01:02:33,718 --> 01:02:36,938
The same number of people apply to Harvard every year.

1044
01:02:38,518 --> 01:02:42,557
And I mean, could the universities be gone with AI, though?

1045
01:02:44,617 --> 01:02:48,518
Your guess is as good as mine, but I'll bet you the chances are about the same.

1046
01:02:49,938 --> 01:02:56,977
Like you can predict also like institutions have staying power and they have staying power for a lot of reasons.

1047
01:02:57,077 --> 01:02:58,218
Reputation being one of them.

1048
01:02:58,218 --> 01:03:09,297
Like, don't fall into the trap of the like autistic bedroom dweller, like telling you his dream for the world and how he's about to achieve it.

1049
01:03:10,137 --> 01:03:16,018
It's such a mistake because the world, the perspective on the world you get is so dismal.

1050
01:03:16,337 --> 01:03:22,317
And like people start telling you things like you, like you never, ever going to have to fly on an airplane again.

1051
01:03:22,398 --> 01:03:25,137
Like, but do you want that world?

1052
01:03:25,258 --> 01:03:26,758
If I could teleport, fuck yeah.

1053
01:03:26,758 --> 01:03:27,998
You don't know, not the teleporter.

1054
01:03:28,218 --> 01:03:36,577
Like, do you want the world where you never get to go to South Dakota and see the Badlands with your own two goddamn eyes?

1055
01:03:36,918 --> 01:03:37,117
Absolutely.

1056
01:03:37,277 --> 01:03:41,377
Do you want the world where you don't go to the Grand Canyon and look down at it?

1057
01:03:41,617 --> 01:03:42,218
Like you did.

1058
01:03:42,297 --> 01:03:46,557
You're just like, wow, what a beautiful VR rendering of the Grand Canyon.

1059
01:03:46,617 --> 01:03:47,938
It's just like the real thing.

1060
01:03:47,938 --> 01:03:49,898
Like what a crappy world.

1061
01:03:49,898 --> 01:03:53,557
And there's just some autistic stream of how you and I will live.

1062
01:03:53,597 --> 01:03:55,337
And he's so excited about it.

1063
01:03:55,337 --> 01:03:58,657
And I'm telling you, I don't elect to live in that world.

1064
01:03:59,837 --> 01:04:00,477
Me neither.

1065
01:04:00,677 --> 01:04:01,477
I know you don't.

1066
01:04:01,597 --> 01:04:02,057
No one does.

1067
01:04:02,157 --> 01:04:10,117
So why is that the world that like when we talk about things, we talk about AI, we're like, and then it's going to airplanes will crash out of the sky.

1068
01:04:10,198 --> 01:04:10,857
It's going to be so cool.

1069
01:04:11,057 --> 01:04:14,797
Like it's not the world that you will elect to live in.

1070
01:04:14,938 --> 01:04:18,438
Maybe a world in which like you have more free time is when you elect to live in.

1071
01:04:18,637 --> 01:04:23,977
But a world where no humans have jobs, nobody's doing any work, no one has any idea what to do.

1072
01:04:23,977 --> 01:04:25,837
Like you're talking about zombies.

1073
01:04:25,977 --> 01:04:31,477
Like we're just like, oh, that's the world that AI is going to bring.

1074
01:04:31,677 --> 01:04:32,357
Oh, great.

1075
01:04:32,438 --> 01:04:33,938
I elect to live in that.

1076
01:04:34,097 --> 01:04:35,998
You don't have to live in that world.

1077
01:04:36,057 --> 01:04:37,097
You can elect not to.

1078
01:04:37,198 --> 01:04:39,218
And no one elects to live in that world.

1079
01:04:39,317 --> 01:04:41,498
So that is not what AI will do.

1080
01:04:42,117 --> 01:04:43,617
It's a really simple rubric.

1081
01:04:44,137 --> 01:04:50,597
Like AI is going to give us, hopefully, a world that all of us are more desirous of.

1082
01:04:50,597 --> 01:04:59,077
And if we take AI and it has consequences that we do not like in 20 years, we will roll them back.

1083
01:04:59,218 --> 01:05:06,238
Just like we're doing now with immigration or with some of the outsourcing or whatever it is.

1084
01:05:06,258 --> 01:05:09,258
We're rolling things back because they have consequences.

1085
01:05:10,238 --> 01:05:14,898
And as we see the consequences, we take back the world for ourselves.

1086
01:05:14,898 --> 01:05:18,337
and we live in a world that we elect to enjoy

1087
01:05:18,337 --> 01:05:22,177
because we're the ones for whom it's created.

1088
01:05:22,438 --> 01:05:25,957
This world is not created for AI robots to enjoy.

1089
01:05:26,117 --> 01:05:27,557
It's created for you and me.

1090
01:05:28,297 --> 01:05:30,757
And if the world is not one that you elect to live in

1091
01:05:30,757 --> 01:05:32,317
and it's not one that I elect to live in,

1092
01:05:32,657 --> 01:05:33,938
then what's the point?

1093
01:05:34,577 --> 01:05:35,898
Yeah, I mean, I agree with that.

1094
01:05:35,957 --> 01:05:36,898
The thing that does suck though

1095
01:05:36,898 --> 01:05:39,297
is that narratives matter, at least in the short term.

1096
01:05:39,577 --> 01:05:41,297
And I think the generation that are

1097
01:05:41,297 --> 01:05:43,538
in a really tricky spot right now,

1098
01:05:43,597 --> 01:05:44,797
the people leaving college now,

1099
01:05:44,797 --> 01:05:48,257
the, like, I don't know, say 16 to 25 year olds,

1100
01:05:48,337 --> 01:05:49,918
if they're trying to go into the workforce

1101
01:05:49,918 --> 01:05:51,718
and all these companies are trying to prepare

1102
01:05:51,718 --> 01:05:54,218
for this AI world that you're saying may never come,

1103
01:05:54,398 --> 01:05:56,038
but they're at least preparing for that.

1104
01:05:56,117 --> 01:05:57,257
Like the jobs that are on offer to them

1105
01:05:57,257 --> 01:05:58,337
are completely different.

1106
01:05:59,297 --> 01:06:00,837
Yeah, go make a company.

1107
01:06:00,998 --> 01:06:02,018
It's never been a better time.

1108
01:06:02,157 --> 01:06:04,938
Everyone in your cohort is going to be out of a job

1109
01:06:04,938 --> 01:06:09,218
because they're all lamenting the coming of AI.

1110
01:06:09,837 --> 01:06:10,538
Go, I don't know.

1111
01:06:10,637 --> 01:06:13,277
I mean, I, like when Bitcoin's down, I start companies.

1112
01:06:13,277 --> 01:06:19,998
um i just started a trash cleaning business a trash a trash bin cleaning business like all

1113
01:06:19,998 --> 01:06:23,498
the rage i didn't know this we had a maggots after a party last year

1114
01:06:23,498 --> 01:06:32,097
and uh and i wanted to get my trash can clean because it was disgusting and i don't want to

1115
01:06:32,097 --> 01:06:37,277
do it myself because that's gross so i uh so i looked online and i found out that there were like

1116
01:06:37,277 --> 01:06:41,077
people that did this and i was like this i was like i wonder if this is like a business and

1117
01:06:41,077 --> 01:06:43,637
Sure enough, there's a few people doing it in a small way.

1118
01:06:43,677 --> 01:06:44,097
I was like, you know what?

1119
01:06:44,137 --> 01:06:47,057
I'm going to try one of these businesses.

1120
01:06:47,177 --> 01:06:53,518
So I bought a truck, and we've been selling trash bin cleaning services locally in South Florida.

1121
01:06:54,317 --> 01:06:54,957
That's awesome.

1122
01:06:55,377 --> 01:06:59,597
Yeah, but what's AI going to do?

1123
01:07:00,137 --> 01:07:01,498
I mean, you get it to clean your bin.

1124
01:07:02,077 --> 01:07:03,438
You're going to get AI to clean your bin?

1125
01:07:03,617 --> 01:07:03,977
Maybe.

1126
01:07:04,057 --> 01:07:04,738
If I have a robot, maybe.

1127
01:07:04,738 --> 01:07:05,057
Maybe.

1128
01:07:05,277 --> 01:07:06,137
Yeah, maybe it will.

1129
01:07:06,757 --> 01:07:07,418
Maybe it won't.

1130
01:07:07,518 --> 01:07:07,918
I don't know.

1131
01:07:07,918 --> 01:07:18,757
But like, you know, my truck is going to do it better because I have, you know, high pressure water coming out at like 200 degrees, you know, like he's going to clean with a hose.

1132
01:07:19,718 --> 01:07:20,398
Bleach.

1133
01:07:21,857 --> 01:07:27,637
There's just like, it's just very, there's tons of jobs out there that you can go make for yourself.

1134
01:07:27,977 --> 01:07:28,898
You can make them.

1135
01:07:29,238 --> 01:07:30,177
You don't need a truck.

1136
01:07:30,238 --> 01:07:31,218
You could do it with a hose.

1137
01:07:31,337 --> 01:07:34,238
Like I'm only talking about cleaning bins because it's the one that I did.

1138
01:07:34,238 --> 01:07:36,337
But like my wife wanted to start a nursery.

1139
01:07:36,337 --> 01:07:40,777
So I went and I bought a bunch of plants and I put them in our front yard and said, here you go.

1140
01:07:41,257 --> 01:07:43,957
And then I advertised on Facebook marketplace and now she has a nursery.

1141
01:07:45,137 --> 01:07:51,257
Like it's going to be a funny mindset shift though, because I don't think most people are

1142
01:07:51,257 --> 01:07:55,398
entrepreneurial because they think they're just going to get to go to New York and work in finance.

1143
01:07:56,698 --> 01:08:02,377
Most people think that as an example, your view of the world is like, you're telling me like my

1144
01:08:02,377 --> 01:08:06,837
view of the world like everybody's like no no no nobody's getting jobs i mean i think the vast

1145
01:08:06,837 --> 01:08:10,317
majority of people going like into the working world think they're going to get like a corporate

1146
01:08:10,317 --> 01:08:14,277
job or be a mechanic i think i think you're right but well there's nothing and there's nothing wrong

1147
01:08:14,277 --> 01:08:18,797
with that stuff but i'm saying like if you're if the world you're entering is one in which like ai

1148
01:08:18,797 --> 01:08:23,177
is taking over that's the narrative that's a short-term narrative and the result of the short-term

1149
01:08:23,177 --> 01:08:29,737
narrative is that there are no jobs available if you're a man and i'm not saying women can't do it

1150
01:08:29,737 --> 01:08:37,177
But if you're a man and you want a hot chick, you need to just go make a job.

1151
01:08:37,438 --> 01:08:38,498
It's not hard.

1152
01:08:38,977 --> 01:08:40,357
Go make a job.

1153
01:08:40,558 --> 01:08:42,197
And you're like, well, what am I going to do?

1154
01:08:42,277 --> 01:08:42,917
I don't know.

1155
01:08:43,638 --> 01:08:45,777
Buy shoes cheap.

1156
01:08:46,197 --> 01:08:49,618
Go door to door until you find someone to buy the shoes.

1157
01:08:49,717 --> 01:08:50,518
I don't care.

1158
01:08:50,898 --> 01:08:55,578
Like sell peanuts, sell Diet Coke at like a concession stand.

1159
01:08:55,657 --> 01:08:56,638
I don't care.

1160
01:08:57,257 --> 01:08:58,777
But like go work.

1161
01:08:58,777 --> 01:09:05,157
knowing your cohort is working. So go work, go find work. Work is good. Go find work.

1162
01:09:05,518 --> 01:09:07,297
I mean, a world of more entrepreneurs is a good world.

1163
01:09:07,697 --> 01:09:12,518
Become an entrepreneur. So go, go find people with coconut trees in the backyard. If you're

1164
01:09:12,518 --> 01:09:18,638
in Florida, pick them and then set up a stand at the side of the road and sell them. Like it's,

1165
01:09:18,977 --> 01:09:24,877
it is, there are so many opportunities that are not going to be taken by AI, no matter what,

1166
01:09:24,877 --> 01:09:26,337
at least not in the short term.

1167
01:09:26,477 --> 01:09:28,118
And if they are in the long term,

1168
01:09:28,237 --> 01:09:33,717
the world may suck because we want people to do things like it's the commies

1169
01:09:33,717 --> 01:09:36,837
and the libertarians who are the same thing.

1170
01:09:37,018 --> 01:09:38,257
They're Ouroboros.

1171
01:09:38,458 --> 01:09:42,118
The tail is the libertarian and the communist is the mouth,

1172
01:09:42,197 --> 01:09:42,377
right?

1173
01:09:42,438 --> 01:09:44,098
They're the same goddamn thing.

1174
01:09:44,178 --> 01:09:45,837
They're both of them have the same dream,

1175
01:09:46,117 --> 01:09:47,797
which is that you're going to sit.

1176
01:09:47,938 --> 01:09:50,518
I know that you're going to sit there on the side of,

1177
01:09:50,518 --> 01:09:53,757
of the stream at the end of the day in their perfect world.

1178
01:09:53,757 --> 01:09:54,717
And you're going to be fishing.

1179
01:09:54,877 --> 01:09:57,538
which is what you definitely want to be doing as a human.

1180
01:09:57,717 --> 01:09:58,898
You want to just be fishing all day.

1181
01:09:59,018 --> 01:09:59,657
That's fun.

1182
01:10:00,678 --> 01:10:02,117
And that's their dream world.

1183
01:10:02,297 --> 01:10:03,837
And like, that's cute.

1184
01:10:04,217 --> 01:10:06,737
And I think that like some of this stuff fulfills that.

1185
01:10:06,797 --> 01:10:08,178
It's like, everyone's going to be out of a job

1186
01:10:08,178 --> 01:10:09,417
and then we're going to all be on UBI.

1187
01:10:09,777 --> 01:10:13,217
And it's both mine and my communist friend's dream

1188
01:10:13,217 --> 01:10:14,117
as a libertarian.

1189
01:10:14,357 --> 01:10:16,977
And that's like exactly what the world that they want

1190
01:10:16,977 --> 01:10:20,138
is everyone on UBI, like Milton Friedman said.

1191
01:10:20,138 --> 01:10:28,817
and um and it just doesn't it's it's a terrible world yep it's a really it is a dismal world

1192
01:10:28,817 --> 01:10:32,737
i totally agree with that but i think we might have go through a period of ubi

1193
01:10:32,737 --> 01:10:38,317
yeah they're gonna try it they're gonna it's gonna fail because all all things where human

1194
01:10:38,317 --> 01:10:47,217
incentives are not aligned with money fail so if we do ubi uh and you give people money to lounge

1195
01:10:47,217 --> 01:10:53,898
around and do nothing, the program will fail at producing the consequences that you'd like.

1196
01:10:54,558 --> 01:10:57,898
Do you think that's a situation where everyone just, or not everyone, a large amount of people

1197
01:10:57,898 --> 01:11:00,917
just end up drinking themselves to death, doing drugs, like loss of meaning?

1198
01:11:01,217 --> 01:11:05,518
Could be. I don't see why not. Like in a world where like, if you construct, if you construct

1199
01:11:05,518 --> 01:11:09,337
the zombie apocalypse is the world that you live in and you elect to live in that world,

1200
01:11:09,458 --> 01:11:14,598
you're going to have a lot of people eating brains. You know, it's just not, you can't

1201
01:11:14,598 --> 01:11:17,417
survive as a, as humanity.

1202
01:11:17,598 --> 01:11:21,398
If we're electing to live in worlds that we don't want to live in.

1203
01:11:22,438 --> 01:11:23,938
You've made me feel better about AI.

1204
01:11:25,277 --> 01:11:25,797
Good.

1205
01:11:27,337 --> 01:11:28,357
I guess.

1206
01:11:28,857 --> 01:11:30,938
I don't feel anything about AI.

1207
01:11:31,117 --> 01:11:32,038
I just like everyone.

1208
01:11:32,138 --> 01:11:33,018
Do you feel anything?

1209
01:11:34,237 --> 01:11:36,078
I've been trying to for years.

1210
01:11:36,697 --> 01:11:38,678
It's like, it's like cut myself.

1211
01:11:39,837 --> 01:11:40,857
That's getting cut.

1212
01:11:41,157 --> 01:11:41,578
Why?

1213
01:11:41,737 --> 01:11:42,817
That's a good joke.

1214
01:11:44,598 --> 01:11:48,117
I mean, I don't really feel much toward AI.

1215
01:11:48,317 --> 01:11:51,657
I feel immense love toward my daughter.

1216
01:11:52,178 --> 01:11:54,857
I feel immense love toward my wife.

1217
01:11:55,518 --> 01:12:02,157
I feel love of a different sort towards my friends, toward you.

1218
01:12:02,817 --> 01:12:06,357
I feel great about the place I live,

1219
01:12:06,578 --> 01:12:11,898
and I feel wonderful when I'm outside fixing things with my hands

1220
01:12:11,898 --> 01:12:15,357
or I'm in my garage turning a piece of wood, right?

1221
01:12:15,977 --> 01:12:20,717
Like the idea that AI is going to come

1222
01:12:20,717 --> 01:12:24,417
and make me feel worse in that world is nuts.

1223
01:12:24,797 --> 01:12:28,237
And the idea that it's going to take my job is nuts

1224
01:12:28,237 --> 01:12:30,938
because I will just create a new job in that world

1225
01:12:30,938 --> 01:12:35,018
where AI is either part of it or is not.

1226
01:12:35,078 --> 01:12:35,477
One sec.

1227
01:12:37,157 --> 01:12:37,417
A.

1228
01:12:38,558 --> 01:12:39,317
Works for me.

1229
01:12:40,317 --> 01:12:40,857
All right.

1230
01:12:40,998 --> 01:12:41,138
Bye.

1231
01:12:41,898 --> 01:12:46,977
schedule training on cleaning dumpsters.

1232
01:12:47,617 --> 01:12:48,458
There you go.

1233
01:12:48,898 --> 01:12:50,657
See, I think narratives are really important, though.

1234
01:12:50,777 --> 01:12:53,178
And I think one of the interesting things is that

1235
01:12:53,178 --> 01:12:56,458
sci-fi for the last 20 years or however long

1236
01:12:56,458 --> 01:12:59,458
have been that AI is this terrible thing.

1237
01:12:59,777 --> 01:13:00,558
It's going to kill us all.

1238
01:13:00,638 --> 01:13:01,518
It's going to take over the world.

1239
01:13:01,917 --> 01:13:04,498
And hearing someone say that it can be actually

1240
01:13:04,498 --> 01:13:08,138
kind of restorative is really interesting.

1241
01:13:08,138 --> 01:13:09,438
Yeah, I think that's...

1242
01:13:09,438 --> 01:13:19,217
But I do also have this other belief that either you believe that AI is human or conscience, or you can believe in God.

1243
01:13:20,117 --> 01:13:23,458
And I think that these are diametrically opposed beliefs.

1244
01:13:24,977 --> 01:13:26,617
I don't think you can believe them both.

1245
01:13:27,157 --> 01:13:27,518
Why not?

1246
01:13:29,498 --> 01:13:34,038
Because in my world, God creates life.

1247
01:13:34,498 --> 01:13:35,617
It is magical.

1248
01:13:35,617 --> 01:13:41,277
how it happens. There's insolument and all sorts of amazing things that occur.

1249
01:13:42,117 --> 01:13:53,178
And consciousness is a gift from the creator in that sense. So then we as humans fiddle-faddle

1250
01:13:53,178 --> 01:14:03,058
with our machines, and we create this thing that feels very alive, but isn't. And it feels so alive

1251
01:14:03,058 --> 01:14:05,237
that many people believe it to be alive.

1252
01:14:06,417 --> 01:14:10,558
But we can't really do that.

1253
01:14:10,998 --> 01:14:15,237
So in my world, it is impossible for AI to be alive.

1254
01:14:15,417 --> 01:14:16,417
It can't be alive.

1255
01:14:18,697 --> 01:14:19,998
But humans can be.

1256
01:14:21,078 --> 01:14:25,958
And I think in a world where you believe that AI is alive,

1257
01:14:25,958 --> 01:14:30,138
it's very difficult to believe in an all-powerful creator

1258
01:14:30,138 --> 01:14:31,857
because, you know,

1259
01:14:32,297 --> 01:14:33,737
apparently we can just create life.

1260
01:14:34,138 --> 01:14:34,157
So.

1261
01:14:35,317 --> 01:14:36,058
Makes sense.

1262
01:14:36,337 --> 01:14:36,958
You know, why?

1263
01:14:37,317 --> 01:14:38,477
What's the point of God?

1264
01:14:39,977 --> 01:14:41,257
See, I'm not religious at all,

1265
01:14:41,317 --> 01:14:44,237
but God couldn't have created the AIs.

1266
01:14:45,757 --> 01:14:46,477
Why not?

1267
01:14:47,038 --> 01:14:47,917
God can do anything.

1268
01:14:48,178 --> 01:14:50,757
But I tell you, if you're not religious,

1269
01:14:51,357 --> 01:14:53,277
you will believe that AI is real.

1270
01:14:53,477 --> 01:14:54,117
It's alive.

1271
01:14:54,958 --> 01:14:56,117
See, I don't at the moment.

1272
01:14:56,257 --> 01:14:56,558
Not yet.

1273
01:14:57,697 --> 01:14:58,458
But you will.

1274
01:14:58,458 --> 01:15:01,857
Again, it's very hard to say what I'll believe in the future.

1275
01:15:02,018 --> 01:15:04,578
I can't see it, but potentially.

1276
01:15:04,777 --> 01:15:06,837
I think I'm in a place right now

1277
01:15:06,837 --> 01:15:09,257
where I think that everyone is going to fall into the two camps.

1278
01:15:10,357 --> 01:15:13,237
And there will be one side you'll have to take.

1279
01:15:14,078 --> 01:15:15,998
And I just think it's inevitable

1280
01:15:15,998 --> 01:15:19,518
because if the better AI gets, the more real it seems.

1281
01:15:21,617 --> 01:15:22,898
Yeah, but then it's like,

1282
01:15:23,657 --> 01:15:26,398
that gets to the point where you think that AI

1283
01:15:26,398 --> 01:15:28,578
has to have some kind of like human rights treatment

1284
01:15:28,578 --> 01:15:30,657
and they're equal to humans, which...

1285
01:15:30,657 --> 01:15:31,078
It's coming.

1286
01:15:31,598 --> 01:15:31,998
You think?

1287
01:15:32,078 --> 01:15:33,377
You wait until the debates start.

1288
01:15:33,797 --> 01:15:35,477
It might be 30 years down the road, but yeah.

1289
01:15:37,578 --> 01:15:40,837
Yeah, unless I start believing in God,

1290
01:15:40,917 --> 01:15:42,377
I think I'm going to fade that narrative

1291
01:15:42,377 --> 01:15:43,578
because I can't see that.

1292
01:15:46,317 --> 01:15:46,998
Just wait.

1293
01:15:48,058 --> 01:15:49,018
Should we talk about Bitcoin?

1294
01:15:49,117 --> 01:15:50,277
We've done like an hour on AI there.

1295
01:15:50,337 --> 01:15:50,877
Yeah, let's do it.

1296
01:15:50,877 --> 01:15:51,898
You're wearing your ocean shirt.

1297
01:15:53,157 --> 01:15:54,777
Are you a Bit110 guy?

1298
01:15:54,777 --> 01:16:01,257
am i a what a bit 110 guy i don't know what that means yes you do no i don't you're such a liar

1299
01:16:01,257 --> 01:16:06,417
let me let me tell you something i think that right now in bitcoin there's like

1300
01:16:06,417 --> 01:16:13,038
factions developing and political uh political parties of a sort developing

1301
01:16:13,038 --> 01:16:22,018
and everybody wants you to take a side and i just couldn't care less uh i'm an ocean investor

1302
01:16:22,018 --> 01:16:28,558
because I think Ocean is a good money-making opportunity, possibly.

1303
01:16:28,817 --> 01:16:30,058
I think it's also very good for Bitcoin.

1304
01:16:30,477 --> 01:16:35,518
I also think it's very good for Bitcoin to have a mining pool like Ocean.

1305
01:16:35,998 --> 01:16:36,217
Yep.

1306
01:16:39,277 --> 01:16:42,817
I'm not always a fan of ideology entering into your business,

1307
01:16:43,058 --> 01:16:46,777
but it's their business and they get to do what they want with it.

1308
01:16:47,337 --> 01:16:49,197
And it's not like you invest with Luke Dash Jr.

1309
01:16:49,317 --> 01:16:51,578
and don't know that he's got an ideology, right?

1310
01:16:51,578 --> 01:16:58,297
Like, so I think that there's like some, some sort of like political, uh, thing going on here

1311
01:16:58,297 --> 01:17:04,538
in Bitcoin right now. There's factions developing. And I think that like, it'll probably end up

1312
01:17:04,538 --> 01:17:08,998
making Bitcoin better in a weird way. And everyone is going to be surprised by how.

1313
01:17:09,757 --> 01:17:13,237
Yeah. Because it gets more like, we don't need, this is money for enemies. We don't need to agree

1314
01:17:13,237 --> 01:17:16,797
on everything. There's this, there's no point. Like I'm glad there's factions. Like who cares?

1315
01:17:16,797 --> 01:17:23,398
like let core fight for their like legitimacy always uh core is this amorphous group of

1316
01:17:23,398 --> 01:17:30,877
programmers that come together and decide on how the bitcoin protocol looks and they could just

1317
01:17:30,877 --> 01:17:39,157
it could be just as it could be that core you know loses that legitimate like power and that's

1318
01:17:39,157 --> 01:17:45,018
some other you know implementation takes over it's just like i think that i think that everyone

1319
01:17:45,018 --> 01:17:50,617
should always be on their toes in a world like this. Everyone should know that if you put some

1320
01:17:50,617 --> 01:17:56,977
kind of like bad code into the blockchain, if you put any, any, anything, you'll be found.

1321
01:17:58,257 --> 01:18:04,558
And it'll be, and apparently the accusations will just go nuts. Like you will be accused of

1322
01:18:04,558 --> 01:18:10,657
looking at child porn and, you know, jerking it to pictures of, you know, your mom.

1323
01:18:10,657 --> 01:18:14,697
Which to be fair, like that whole narrative has been very disappointing, but, um,

1324
01:18:14,697 --> 01:18:16,377
It is what it is.

1325
01:18:16,538 --> 01:18:19,217
I get what's going on.

1326
01:18:19,518 --> 01:18:20,538
It's rhetoric.

1327
01:18:21,178 --> 01:18:25,657
It's like the worst people at rhetoric playing games of rhetoric.

1328
01:18:26,678 --> 01:18:27,117
Yeah.

1329
01:18:27,538 --> 01:18:28,058
You know what I mean?

1330
01:18:28,317 --> 01:18:28,538
Yeah.

1331
01:18:28,578 --> 01:18:31,257
Like they're like, it's like they didn't take the rhetoric class in college.

1332
01:18:31,877 --> 01:18:35,617
And so they're sitting there like, well, you look at child porn.

1333
01:18:35,737 --> 01:18:36,617
And you're like, wait, wait, what?

1334
01:18:36,777 --> 01:18:38,038
Like, uh-huh.

1335
01:18:38,117 --> 01:18:39,317
And they're like, no, I don't.

1336
01:18:39,417 --> 01:18:39,977
Oh, yeah.

1337
01:18:40,438 --> 01:18:42,977
Something like a child porn guy would say.

1338
01:18:43,078 --> 01:18:43,697
You know, like, okay.

1339
01:18:43,697 --> 01:18:47,337
Like that's, you know, so it's like two sides of a coin.

1340
01:18:47,777 --> 01:18:55,018
Neither side, like core was not prepared for taking political positions because there are a bunch of autistic programmers.

1341
01:18:55,737 --> 01:19:03,558
And like the other side didn't tell them because there are a bunch of autistic programmers that they were going to start like doing rhetoric.

1342
01:19:03,757 --> 01:19:07,757
And so it's autistic rhetoric versus like unprepared autists.

1343
01:19:07,938 --> 01:19:10,638
And it's really funny to me to watch.

1344
01:19:10,697 --> 01:19:11,377
I'm not disappointed.

1345
01:19:11,377 --> 01:19:14,417
I sit back and watch the game.

1346
01:19:14,458 --> 01:19:16,657
You got to do more of that, like being in the stadium,

1347
01:19:16,797 --> 01:19:18,257
announcing the game kind of thing.

1348
01:19:18,578 --> 01:19:21,257
It's like, oh, you're accusing her of watching child porn.

1349
01:19:21,357 --> 01:19:22,078
Let's see what he's doing.

1350
01:19:22,237 --> 01:19:22,977
You know what she's doing.

1351
01:19:23,098 --> 01:19:25,697
And she just kind of like sits there and doesn't know what to do.

1352
01:19:25,757 --> 01:19:27,518
It's, you know, it's fine.

1353
01:19:27,938 --> 01:19:28,837
It is what it is.

1354
01:19:28,958 --> 01:19:30,638
I mean, who does know what to do when you get accused of that?

1355
01:19:30,657 --> 01:19:31,518
And I do think it's disappointing.

1356
01:19:31,518 --> 01:19:33,117
You just say no, and then you just move on.

1357
01:19:33,138 --> 01:19:34,958
Like you say, then you go, well, that's what they'd say.

1358
01:19:35,138 --> 01:19:35,757
Yeah, whatever.

1359
01:19:35,757 --> 01:19:44,558
like do you i think i think that if you're a regular consumer of that content you'll get caught

1360
01:19:44,558 --> 01:19:51,217
in like not too long a time you know like they'll show up at your house and they'll rage you

1361
01:19:51,217 --> 01:19:56,837
and everybody will know because it just it is what it is like it just seems it seems like it's

1362
01:19:56,837 --> 01:20:03,098
difficult to not end up stepping on a lot of giant landmines when you're like searching for that

1363
01:20:03,098 --> 01:20:08,817
stuff. I would think it's rife with FBI and CIA or whoever the hell the enforcement agencies are.

1364
01:20:09,157 --> 01:20:11,578
Yeah. So are you a Bitpontent guy though?

1365
01:20:12,078 --> 01:20:12,678
Am I a what?

1366
01:20:12,917 --> 01:20:15,797
Do you support Bitpontent? Come on, you never pull punches.

1367
01:20:17,078 --> 01:20:28,678
I don't care. I actually have not looked strongly into Bitpontent. The idea that we need to control

1368
01:20:28,678 --> 01:20:33,617
the blockchain i've always thought was not not control the blockchain but control like what is

1369
01:20:33,617 --> 01:20:40,197
put in it i think that like the blockchain has a very limited amount of space that space has a price

1370
01:20:40,197 --> 01:20:46,357
maybe we've made a mistake with like the segwit discount and stuff like that i don't know

1371
01:20:46,357 --> 01:20:52,477
i think that'll let people debate that and figure that out but like as to whether uh as to whether

1372
01:20:52,477 --> 01:20:56,578
we right now need to regulate it like i don't know because i think i think that like what needs

1373
01:20:56,578 --> 01:21:02,518
to happen is like this is the whole bitcoin that has not done anything yet bitcoin needs to be used

1374
01:21:02,518 --> 01:21:07,817
primarily for its function of transferring value from place to place right now such that that is

1375
01:21:07,817 --> 01:21:14,438
the number one reason that someone wants to use the blockchain and until then every we will have

1376
01:21:14,438 --> 01:21:20,857
a million attack vectors things people want to put in there whether it's words or not and so i'm not

1377
01:21:20,857 --> 01:21:26,377
like i'm not that concerned about it i never have been i think that there's a lot of people that are

1378
01:21:26,377 --> 01:21:32,277
concerned about it um there has definitely been some like bloat in the blockchain which i don't

1379
01:21:32,277 --> 01:21:37,337
you know it's it's bigger right now than maybe it would otherwise have been but i'm not i'm just not

1380
01:21:37,337 --> 01:21:42,518
that worried about it yet it's it's we're still early in bitcoin's history i'll let them debate it and then if

1381
01:21:42,557 --> 01:21:43,637
Implement it, they implement it.

1382
01:21:43,697 --> 01:21:44,417
And if they don't, they don't.

1383
01:21:44,517 --> 01:21:48,777
Like, it's not, to me, this is never, this is more about, like, the sort of emergence

1384
01:21:48,777 --> 01:21:52,957
of, like, factions than it is about whether a BIP is going to end up getting, like, you

1385
01:21:52,957 --> 01:21:54,177
know, operationalized or not.

1386
01:21:54,657 --> 01:21:55,697
Very fenced city.

1387
01:21:56,497 --> 01:21:57,357
It's not fenced city.

1388
01:21:57,457 --> 01:21:59,717
It's, like, do you care about every BIP?

1389
01:22:00,077 --> 01:22:00,297
No.

1390
01:22:00,557 --> 01:22:01,017
Me neither.

1391
01:22:02,537 --> 01:22:05,057
There's someone that cares about every BIP, you know?

1392
01:22:05,397 --> 01:22:08,777
And there's some people that, like, just don't know what's going on.

1393
01:22:08,777 --> 01:22:10,597
I tend to know what the BIPs are.

1394
01:22:11,617 --> 01:22:14,537
And then some of them, I'm like, OK, that would be good.

1395
01:22:14,577 --> 01:22:15,117
That would be bad.

1396
01:22:15,217 --> 01:22:17,797
There's some ideas that I think are good and some ideas that I think are bad.

1397
01:22:17,957 --> 01:22:20,277
And they get hammered out and debate.

1398
01:22:21,017 --> 01:22:35,757
And then I have, to be honest, no, apart from maybe starting a movement in Bitcoin, I'm not going to affect whether that BIP gets implemented or not unless I have a really strong opinion and start, I don't know, lobbying the developers.

1399
01:22:35,757 --> 01:22:37,377
I'll call Adam back and let him know.

1400
01:22:38,777 --> 01:22:45,597
But most of us don't really know day to day what the BIPs are.

1401
01:22:46,037 --> 01:22:47,917
You're just in your Bitcoin Zen watching.

1402
01:22:48,557 --> 01:22:50,077
That's always been the case with me.

1403
01:22:50,097 --> 01:22:50,837
I'm always watching.

1404
01:22:51,517 --> 01:22:56,117
Fence sitting, I've never taken strong stances on what Bitcoin should do

1405
01:22:56,117 --> 01:23:02,457
other than that it did and probably needs to remain serving the underserved,

1406
01:23:02,757 --> 01:23:04,297
which is exactly your statement.

1407
01:23:04,437 --> 01:23:06,497
It needs to remain free and open, right?

1408
01:23:06,917 --> 01:23:07,777
Freedom money.

1409
01:23:07,777 --> 01:23:12,157
so that's exactly what I think as long as it remains freedom money like you do whatever you

1410
01:23:12,157 --> 01:23:19,057
want the rest is just noise yeah like it's you know it's an asset in your computer and then

1411
01:23:19,057 --> 01:23:22,437
they're trying to put controls on it whatever those controls are some are going to be regulated

1412
01:23:22,437 --> 01:23:29,497
you know with uh code some with laws yeah I mean as much as I called you a fence sitter but I think

1413
01:23:29,497 --> 01:23:35,017
more people probably need to have that opinion I I can't imagine caring so much about everything

1414
01:23:35,017 --> 01:23:41,257
like just people spend so much time carrying whatever like i i i make jokes bitcoin uncensored

1415
01:23:41,257 --> 01:23:46,737
back in the day it was all fart jokes like the whole thing fart jokes and then technical discussion

1416
01:23:46,737 --> 01:23:50,977
fart jokes and technical discussion fart jokes and that was the show like if you asked me to

1417
01:23:50,977 --> 01:23:55,557
summarize it that would be it was like i was mostly a podcast about fart jokes and like bitcoin

1418
01:23:55,557 --> 01:24:00,797
technical discussions and i don't think you can have the perspective that like everything

1419
01:24:00,797 --> 01:24:05,977
everything is important and i must care about it if you're going to tell a lot of fart jokes

1420
01:24:05,977 --> 01:24:10,617
and like that was the thing is like with bu we just we just kind of watched we just let it happen

1421
01:24:10,617 --> 01:24:16,137
we thought things were hilarious we thought most of what we thought was funny was how seriously

1422
01:24:16,137 --> 01:24:22,477
people took themselves like we and now everyone does everyone takes themselves so seriously in

1423
01:24:22,477 --> 01:24:29,857
this space like do you guys do you guys realize where we came from like this is like bitcoin

1424
01:24:29,857 --> 01:24:35,757
magazine was run by a guy who like put on like those fake horse contests of faith you know horse

1425
01:24:35,757 --> 01:24:40,797
masks and like all over himself and put posted these things online all the time embarrassingly

1426
01:24:40,797 --> 01:24:52,577
like ethereum bitcoin's competitor is run by a a weird emaciated ethiopian child who like

1427
01:24:52,577 --> 01:25:00,937
needs to eat a burger and like i don't know like none of this it's all funny nothing here is serious

1428
01:25:00,937 --> 01:25:07,917
and yet like there's an ef or etf about it hilarious i don't know that surprises me

1429
01:25:07,917 --> 01:25:13,657
it's it's as surprising as an etf about pokemon cards or beanie babies or beanie babies it's

1430
01:25:13,657 --> 01:25:19,577
hilarious and like people take themselves so seriously about it and it is important i really

1431
01:25:19,577 --> 01:25:25,637
do think it is important but i think that it is like it is contingent on everyone to remember where

1432
01:25:25,637 --> 01:25:31,037
we were like when the suits got here that's when things got retarded like we had suits come in for

1433
01:25:31,037 --> 01:25:34,917
a while and then try to sell blockchain to everybody every time the suits come in it gets

1434
01:25:34,917 --> 01:25:40,737
dumb because they don't know what they're looking at so i don't know like everyone's taking themselves

1435
01:25:40,737 --> 01:25:46,157
so seriously it gets real bad when you get serious folk in here i mean i kind of love that that's

1436
01:25:46,157 --> 01:25:48,357
That's a, that makes me bullish.

1437
01:25:48,977 --> 01:25:49,277
Yeah.

1438
01:25:50,017 --> 01:25:50,257
Yeah.

1439
01:25:50,437 --> 01:25:53,397
No, this is a toy and we're playing in a sandbox.

1440
01:25:53,637 --> 01:25:57,717
And then like, maybe at some point someone goes like, oh, that toy looks really amazing.

1441
01:25:57,717 --> 01:26:00,837
I'm going to turn that into a big toy for adults.

1442
01:26:01,837 --> 01:26:02,557
I don't know.

1443
01:26:02,777 --> 01:26:04,617
I think that's what the ETF is in some ways.

1444
01:26:04,617 --> 01:26:06,017
Like they're like, it's a big toy for adults.

1445
01:26:06,017 --> 01:26:07,057
Like, well, that's cool.

1446
01:26:07,157 --> 01:26:09,077
I'm going to turn that into a big toy for adults.

1447
01:26:09,177 --> 01:26:13,077
So they put it, they wrapped it in an ETF and they're like, now it's a big toy for adults.

1448
01:26:13,077 --> 01:26:26,642
And like the adults are like oh wow look at this thing It kind of cool And so like you know I think that kind of what going on here is like we been playing in a sandbox and then the suits showed up multiple times in Bitcoin history and they did just the dumbest things and they were always funny

1449
01:26:28,042 --> 01:26:32,862
And then we watch suits fall for scams from other suits. And then we'd watch the suits that just got

1450
01:26:32,862 --> 01:26:37,562
here, go on CNBC and go like, I've been here for a very long time since May. And you're like, whoa,

1451
01:26:38,082 --> 01:26:43,622
they are. I remember I've told the story before, but like, I remember the first Bitcoin conference,

1452
01:26:43,622 --> 01:26:45,722
there was a VC who got up on stage.

1453
01:26:46,482 --> 01:26:49,922
And he was on with a panel of four people.

1454
01:26:50,162 --> 01:26:52,342
It was like Mo Levin's first conference.

1455
01:26:53,502 --> 01:26:56,402
And this guy, this VC, is talking.

1456
01:26:56,582 --> 01:26:59,782
And he's like, I've been in Bitcoin quite a while.

1457
01:27:00,482 --> 01:27:04,982
Been in since, I think he said, like $200 or something like that.

1458
01:27:05,262 --> 01:27:06,902
And this is like January, I think.

1459
01:27:07,602 --> 01:27:09,342
I remember turning to Chris and going, that was May.

1460
01:27:11,182 --> 01:27:12,262
He's been in a while.

1461
01:27:12,262 --> 01:27:13,162
He's been in since May.

1462
01:27:13,622 --> 01:27:15,342
What is he talking about?

1463
01:27:16,182 --> 01:27:18,602
The suits have no idea what they're doing.

1464
01:27:19,002 --> 01:27:19,882
And I love it.

1465
01:27:19,942 --> 01:27:20,822
I think that that's great.

1466
01:27:20,982 --> 01:27:25,482
I think it's really difficult for me to take anything we do here seriously.

1467
01:27:26,402 --> 01:27:35,822
Because it's so, the people that got the richest are the funniest, most unlikely people to have gotten there.

1468
01:27:36,482 --> 01:27:38,262
Have you been watching Bruce Fenton?

1469
01:27:38,662 --> 01:27:40,142
I really like Bruce.

1470
01:27:40,242 --> 01:27:42,342
Bruce Fenton took himself so seriously for years.

1471
01:27:42,342 --> 01:27:47,422
he was you know mr bruce i'm so serious i'm big money guy he would make fun of me like you're just

1472
01:27:47,422 --> 01:27:51,702
an alarm salesman or you know whatever now people like you're just a trash guy you know like like oh

1473
01:27:51,702 --> 01:27:58,822
yeah bruce okay bruce goes now and like does bitcoin uncensored like bits in front of his

1474
01:27:58,822 --> 01:28:04,042
like city council ship because he's bored and so he puts on like a wig and not and talks like a

1475
01:28:04,042 --> 01:28:09,642
tory and like it does these things and i'm just like okay there we go like don't take yourself

1476
01:28:09,642 --> 01:28:13,402
so seriously because on the other side of this as you're trying to build your wealth as you're

1477
01:28:13,402 --> 01:28:17,302
trying to build the world you want to live in on the other side of this when you retire you'll

1478
01:28:17,302 --> 01:28:22,682
realize that you you took yourself serious taking yourself seriously was nothing but larping and

1479
01:28:22,682 --> 01:28:26,422
then on the other side of this all you want to do is go and like talk to your city council like an

1480
01:28:26,422 --> 01:28:34,722
englishman put on a ridiculous like tory uh fucking uh wig you know he's doing that like uh

1481
01:28:34,722 --> 01:28:38,942
what's it called is it gumbo style what's the word i'm like gonzo style journalism yeah you know

1482
01:28:38,942 --> 01:28:45,622
that's gumbo gonzo gumbo gumby style journalism uh that was what we like again be we always thought

1483
01:28:45,622 --> 01:28:49,862
of ourselves as like gonzo journalists in a sense like where you become the story as well

1484
01:28:49,862 --> 01:28:56,322
and that that is you know what be you was it was gonzo journalism but i just i just think it's funny

1485
01:28:56,322 --> 01:29:01,762
that like i see people who spent years trying to like take themselves very seriously getting off

1486
01:29:01,762 --> 01:29:07,522
the serious train and like being i'm rich i arrived right i can stop being serious and then

1487
01:29:07,522 --> 01:29:12,342
And they're like, oh, I guess here at this station, I don't have to be serious anymore.

1488
01:29:12,342 --> 01:29:23,062
And they put down the pretense and they suddenly become like hilarious, funny people that are no longer the professional that they like pretended to be for 10 years.

1489
01:29:23,242 --> 01:29:23,342
Yeah.

1490
01:29:23,702 --> 01:29:24,562
So I don't know.

1491
01:29:24,662 --> 01:29:28,642
Like, I just, I think it's funny in Bitcoin how seriously people take it.

1492
01:29:28,702 --> 01:29:35,822
And I just think that everyone's got to remember that, like, at the end of this, we're all going to take our pants off and probably find ourselves in some kind of orgy.

1493
01:29:37,522 --> 01:29:40,822
What else is there, man?

1494
01:29:40,962 --> 01:29:42,002
We've talked about a lot there.

1495
01:29:42,162 --> 01:29:42,622
I don't know.

1496
01:29:42,702 --> 01:29:44,542
Do you have a really unpopular Bitcoin opinion?

1497
01:29:45,802 --> 01:29:46,562
These days?

1498
01:29:47,322 --> 01:29:50,162
I feel like my AI opinions are the unpopular ones these days.

1499
01:29:50,542 --> 01:29:51,702
I like that opinion.

1500
01:29:52,362 --> 01:29:53,342
I don't know if it's true.

1501
01:29:53,342 --> 01:29:58,702
No, it's like the only really positive outcome from AI that I've heard.

1502
01:29:59,742 --> 01:30:03,602
I mean, the Bitcoin opinions are, I feel like they're all said and done.

1503
01:30:03,602 --> 01:30:09,642
like any like specific things about bitcoin like bitcoin's kind of doing its thing right now it's

1504
01:30:09,642 --> 01:30:15,662
kind of like we're in a bear market uh this is a good like being at 70k in a bear market feels

1505
01:30:15,662 --> 01:30:23,542
pretty good that feels it's weird isn't it it's like oh bummer it's it's real weird like i don't

1506
01:30:23,542 --> 01:30:29,542
know like bitcoin is bitcoin it always has been like my my whole thesis about bitcoin like i feel

1507
01:30:29,542 --> 01:30:35,002
like much of it is one and i just kind of like sit back and let bitcoin do its thing it's not

1508
01:30:35,002 --> 01:30:42,862
there's i i don't the metaverse is dead it never was uh all of these shit coins like i said they

1509
01:30:42,862 --> 01:30:47,162
still exist but like i don't think they will forever real world assets is the new metaverse

1510
01:30:47,162 --> 01:31:10,547
real world assets is the new metaverse which is was obvious because you know it doesn make any set on real world assets like i i think i don like the touch grass meme but i think that like i find that having a sense of the world you in is the only way that

1511
01:31:10,547 --> 01:31:17,467
you can kind of understand what's coming particularly when things look difficult like

1512
01:31:17,467 --> 01:31:21,927
everyone thinks they're going to lose their jobs and i i kind of like work it out in my head i'm

1513
01:31:21,927 --> 01:31:26,947
like okay so like someone in the company is going to have to go in and really learn ai and that's

1514
01:31:26,947 --> 01:31:33,167
someone like in an entrepreneurial sense is going to have to be the person with the incentive to get

1515
01:31:33,167 --> 01:31:38,307
rid of the workers like you're not going to get the workers themselves to work themselves out of

1516
01:31:38,307 --> 01:31:43,827
a job so like the entrepreneurs themselves are going to have to do it so maybe there will be

1517
01:31:43,827 --> 01:31:46,967
businesses that go like come in and do it and they're gonna they're gonna charge you fifty

1518
01:31:46,967 --> 01:31:51,987
thousand dollars to teach you the ai that will help you get rid of workers and then you as the

1519
01:31:51,987 --> 01:31:58,847
entrepreneur are gonna have to like actually hold become a manager of the ais and if you suck at

1520
01:31:58,847 --> 01:32:05,087
managing people you're gonna suck at managing ais and so your whole company like now is like on your

1521
01:32:05,087 --> 01:32:10,667
back whereas before you had like an operations manager and like three or four levels of people

1522
01:32:10,667 --> 01:32:12,007
that actually knew what was going on.

1523
01:32:12,167 --> 01:32:13,907
And like just the world,

1524
01:32:14,487 --> 01:32:16,487
that's just not how it's going to go.

1525
01:32:18,247 --> 01:32:19,327
It just like,

1526
01:32:19,387 --> 01:32:20,927
it's not going to be that fast.

1527
01:32:21,447 --> 01:32:23,467
The only people that are going to be able to do this

1528
01:32:23,467 --> 01:32:24,527
are the people that are like

1529
01:32:24,527 --> 01:32:26,527
the ones with the incentives

1530
01:32:26,527 --> 01:32:28,307
to get rid of the jobs.

1531
01:32:29,167 --> 01:32:31,447
And there aren't that many people like that.

1532
01:32:32,307 --> 01:32:33,107
I love it, man.

1533
01:32:33,147 --> 01:32:34,707
I really hope it takes longer than we think.

1534
01:32:34,947 --> 01:32:35,627
It will.

1535
01:32:35,807 --> 01:32:36,307
Don't worry.

1536
01:32:37,627 --> 01:32:38,587
This time next time.

1537
01:32:38,587 --> 01:32:44,247
clothes will be shredded i have no pants what we're doing in the metaverse

1538
01:32:44,247 --> 01:32:49,427
couldn't afford to drive down the gases two dollars a gallon i just can't afford that

1539
01:32:49,427 --> 01:32:58,347
anymore my ubi check didn't cover it really like i don't i don't know like it just seems it just

1540
01:32:58,347 --> 01:33:02,667
seems to me to be implausible that that all of a sudden we're going to have a whole bunch of

1541
01:33:02,667 --> 01:33:09,987
competent people show up and like all of these companies like from the other side that the you

1542
01:33:09,987 --> 01:33:15,507
know the gelman amnesia effect you know what this is no it's the idea that you you know in a in an

1543
01:33:15,507 --> 01:33:20,307
industry you're competent in if you look at a newspaper and you read about it so like you go

1544
01:33:20,307 --> 01:33:24,347
you read the reporting on bitcoin on the new york times and you're like you're reading it you're

1545
01:33:24,347 --> 01:33:28,427
like that's not how bitcoin works oh yeah what the hell that's not true that's not what the debate

1546
01:33:28,427 --> 01:33:34,087
what are they oh my god this whole article like 93 percent of this article is wrong that's weird

1547
01:33:34,087 --> 01:33:41,647
then the next page AI gonna take all the jobs whoa no right yeah like they just you just read

1548
01:33:41,647 --> 01:33:48,507
what someone in your industry is going is is thinking like and it was 90 wrong you flip the

1549
01:33:48,507 --> 01:33:53,107
page and you forget that like that just happened and that's that's kind of how I feel like with

1550
01:33:53,107 --> 01:33:57,967
with AI like you get a couple of people like I worked in the AI industry and everything is

1551
01:33:57,967 --> 01:34:01,707
going to change and no one's going to have it. These people aren't not making companies.

1552
01:34:04,487 --> 01:34:09,827
They're still making companies. Explain that one to me. They're still hiring programmers to do the

1553
01:34:09,827 --> 01:34:15,467
jobs that programmers need to do. They're still hiring janitors. They're still hiring operations

1554
01:34:15,467 --> 01:34:21,187
managers. They're still hiring drivers and still sending their kids to school.

1555
01:34:22,807 --> 01:34:25,267
The janitors and the bin cleaners will be the last ones to go.

1556
01:34:25,267 --> 01:34:33,787
you've diversified well that's my goal but like you know what i mean like these these silicon

1557
01:34:33,787 --> 01:34:38,647
valley guys who are telling you that the world's about to come to an end like why is why is there

1558
01:34:38,647 --> 01:34:44,907
uh the rate of starting companies not slowing down don't believe the hype it's not that it's

1559
01:34:44,907 --> 01:34:48,407
it's not that it's not like you know when like if barack obama tells you the world's going to be

1560
01:34:48,407 --> 01:34:52,647
underwater in three years and then buys a home on martha's vineyard or whatever like right next

1561
01:34:52,647 --> 01:34:58,407
of the ocean, maybe there's something he's saying that he doesn't actually truly believe

1562
01:34:58,407 --> 01:34:59,267
in his heart of hearts.

1563
01:34:59,487 --> 01:34:59,627
Yeah.

1564
01:34:59,687 --> 01:35:01,107
It wasn't Miami meant to be gone by now.

1565
01:35:01,367 --> 01:35:03,767
Miami's been gone for the last 15 years.

1566
01:35:03,887 --> 01:35:04,647
It's been underwater.

1567
01:35:05,127 --> 01:35:06,167
Like, this is the thing.

1568
01:35:06,327 --> 01:35:08,047
That's why I picked the highest department I could.

1569
01:35:08,127 --> 01:35:08,507
Oh, good.

1570
01:35:08,627 --> 01:35:10,207
It is beautiful.

1571
01:35:10,387 --> 01:35:11,547
Just in case it's this time.

1572
01:35:11,747 --> 01:35:17,667
It is incredible the amount of times the experts are wrong, particularly in their timelines,

1573
01:35:17,967 --> 01:35:21,927
and the amount of credibility we give them every single time they propose a new timeline.

1574
01:35:21,927 --> 01:35:22,327
Yep.

1575
01:35:22,647 --> 01:35:26,407
Like Elon Musk has never been right about a timeline.

1576
01:35:26,407 --> 01:35:27,747
And then like he comes and he's like,

1577
01:35:27,747 --> 01:35:41,472
oh well you know the jobs will be done in like a year and a half and blah blah blah And like no one going to be in work and we going to be at Mars in two years And like you like okay can I get that full self on my car that was promised

1578
01:35:41,472 --> 01:35:42,812
me eight years ago or whatever?

1579
01:35:42,832 --> 01:35:44,992
Yeah, it wasn't the roadster meant to be out like six years ago.

1580
01:35:45,112 --> 01:35:45,992
The roadster, that's right.

1581
01:35:46,032 --> 01:35:47,212
He's like, next month it will do.

1582
01:35:47,352 --> 01:35:47,572
Yeah.

1583
01:35:48,432 --> 01:35:50,252
For like six, seven, eight years.

1584
01:35:51,532 --> 01:35:56,652
So, you know, that's true of Elon Musk, but like you have scientists who for the last

1585
01:35:56,652 --> 01:36:02,732
30, 40 years have been predicting the demise of every major city along the coast. We're still here.

1586
01:36:02,732 --> 01:36:03,212
Yeah.

1587
01:36:03,212 --> 01:36:11,372
We have experts in programming that have been telling us the future of the world looks like

1588
01:36:11,932 --> 01:36:14,732
this with this new technology, IoT.

1589
01:36:16,972 --> 01:36:18,012
Maybe it's not true.

1590
01:36:18,012 --> 01:36:20,652
Everyone's annoyed that their fridge connects to the internet now.

1591
01:36:20,652 --> 01:36:21,212
Yeah.

1592
01:36:21,212 --> 01:36:22,412
And nobody wants-

1593
01:36:22,412 --> 01:36:24,492
I've never understood why you'd want your fridge to get into that.

1594
01:36:24,492 --> 01:36:27,972
10 years ago, everyone wanted their fridge to connect to the internet because.

1595
01:36:29,552 --> 01:36:29,752
Yeah.

1596
01:36:30,732 --> 01:36:37,452
And I think in 10 years, AI, many of the promises of AI will look similar.

1597
01:36:38,272 --> 01:36:41,292
I do love the idea, though, that this could be your interface to the internet

1598
01:36:41,292 --> 01:36:42,932
and you don't actually have to be terminally online.

1599
01:36:43,052 --> 01:36:44,072
That sounds amazing to me.

1600
01:36:44,232 --> 01:36:44,712
Wouldn't it be great?

1601
01:36:44,892 --> 01:36:45,112
Yep.

1602
01:36:45,852 --> 01:36:47,832
Yeah, I just, I don't know exactly how that looks.

1603
01:36:48,332 --> 01:36:53,072
But to me, that like, if you're going to set up things like agents,

1604
01:36:53,592 --> 01:36:54,532
And this is the thing.

1605
01:36:54,572 --> 01:36:59,612
AI has gone from absolutely horrendously bad to like, wow, that's pretty good.

1606
01:37:00,892 --> 01:37:02,912
But you got a preview of what it was doing a year ago.

1607
01:37:02,992 --> 01:37:04,672
It's like, oh, it writes things.

1608
01:37:04,792 --> 01:37:05,112
Cool.

1609
01:37:06,172 --> 01:37:07,232
Oh, it makes images.

1610
01:37:07,412 --> 01:37:07,712
Cool.

1611
01:37:07,832 --> 01:37:17,052
But now it's like you can literally take two photographs and be like, take this image and take the thing from here, transform it, combine it into this image, and put them here.

1612
01:37:17,052 --> 01:37:20,812
And then voila, you have like a near perfect facsimile of that.

1613
01:37:21,312 --> 01:37:22,032
So that's cool.

1614
01:37:22,032 --> 01:37:24,392
and I think it'll probably get a little better.

1615
01:37:25,712 --> 01:37:27,332
On the agent side, it's brand new.

1616
01:37:27,572 --> 01:37:29,152
Like people have just started running like CloudBots

1617
01:37:29,152 --> 01:37:29,692
and stuff like that.

1618
01:37:29,712 --> 01:37:32,232
So that absolute, absolutely terrible experience.

1619
01:37:32,392 --> 01:37:32,872
I've got one.

1620
01:37:32,952 --> 01:37:33,912
It worked amazing for a while.

1621
01:37:33,972 --> 01:37:34,712
Now it just keeps breaking.

1622
01:37:34,892 --> 01:37:36,452
Just absolutely terrible experience.

1623
01:37:37,252 --> 01:37:39,172
But in a year, maybe two years,

1624
01:37:39,432 --> 01:37:42,312
it might be that these agents are incredible.

1625
01:37:42,452 --> 01:37:44,092
I think that's the likely outcome.

1626
01:37:44,192 --> 01:37:45,172
So that's the likely outcome.

1627
01:37:45,732 --> 01:37:47,092
What that means is that your agent

1628
01:37:47,092 --> 01:37:48,852
is going to do things for you that you don't want to do.

1629
01:37:49,252 --> 01:37:51,452
They're going to grocery shop for you with your help.

1630
01:37:51,452 --> 01:37:55,992
right they might message you and say hey are you out of bananas you can say actually yes i am like

1631
01:37:55,992 --> 01:38:00,552
that's what i thought because it's about that time and it'll say hey are you out of uh you know

1632
01:38:00,552 --> 01:38:06,232
dishwashing detergent you know yeah actually i am or no and so it'll buy these things for you

1633
01:38:06,232 --> 01:38:12,252
and it'll like make your general life pretty easy and then you can focus if you want to buy things

1634
01:38:12,252 --> 01:38:17,412
that like make your life fun now you're going to shop for things that make your life fun but you

1635
01:38:17,412 --> 01:38:22,732
might even ask you ask your a i to do that but for the most part like if you can allow the ai to do

1636
01:38:22,732 --> 01:38:27,552
all that stuff you just get a bunch of time back you just unlock productivity it doesn't have to

1637
01:38:27,552 --> 01:38:32,912
be productive like it depends on what you mean by productivity like time potential for it but

1638
01:38:32,912 --> 01:38:38,832
yeah time a lot you're allowed to not do anything with your time doesn't always feel like it

1639
01:38:38,832 --> 01:38:46,572
especially with a kid but yeah but like that's the thing is like more you have a kid so more time

1640
01:38:46,572 --> 01:38:50,232
with your kid is wonderful, right?

1641
01:38:50,432 --> 01:38:51,152
It's amazing.

1642
01:38:51,612 --> 01:38:54,632
You'd hope that you could have more of that.

1643
01:38:54,872 --> 01:38:55,232
Absolutely.

1644
01:38:55,872 --> 01:38:58,732
And I wouldn't call that productive time,

1645
01:38:59,032 --> 01:39:00,712
like not in any way, shape, or form.

1646
01:39:00,712 --> 01:39:04,212
It's absolutely like useless, like relationship building.

1647
01:39:04,412 --> 01:39:05,472
I don't think that's useless.

1648
01:39:05,852 --> 01:39:06,512
Totally useless.

1649
01:39:07,732 --> 01:39:09,512
No, it's just relationship building.

1650
01:39:09,592 --> 01:39:11,432
It's not like you're not making money, right?

1651
01:39:11,552 --> 01:39:13,672
Like you're earning dollars for that.

1652
01:39:13,992 --> 01:39:15,072
But you're probably building a better future.

1653
01:39:15,072 --> 01:39:22,692
yeah yeah yeah well you're making the world you're electing to live in the world that you

1654
01:39:22,692 --> 01:39:27,872
want to live in yeah i love it jen seth i genuinely love talking to you you're one of

1655
01:39:27,872 --> 01:39:33,152
my favorite people to have on the show oh um thank you sorry yeah everyone else that's that's how

1656
01:39:33,152 --> 01:39:40,772
bad very very like low standards no it's been awesome um i normally say where do you want people

1657
01:39:40,772 --> 01:39:44,512
to go but you don't want people to go anywhere unless you've got unless you've got a dirty trash

1658
01:39:44,512 --> 01:39:48,832
can around if you're in south florida you want your dirty trash can clean go to wash a can.com

1659
01:39:48,832 --> 01:39:52,292
thank you man i will see you soon all right