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I've never seen a more hated bull market around the greatest innovation technology that the world

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has ever seen. Agents have not replaced people at work. What has happened is they have not hired

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people and then the corporate ladder has stopped. So you can't go up any further and the costs

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haven't changed inside the city. So I think this is what builds the anger is humans do much better

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with hope. And if hope has been taken away, which is what the corporate ladder and getting more

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money in the future is, then I think someone is to blame. Data centers are to blame, potentially.

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I think robots and agents will be taxed. In the world that I'm seeing, the founders are going to

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own 80, 90, 100% of their business because they don't need employees and they don't need to borrow

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money. And those are the two things. If you need capital and you need employees, you have to give

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up a lot of your money. But with AI, you don't need either. So you think that AI is going to be

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the catalyst that means the people who own the $900 trillion are going to need Bitcoin?

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Okay, Jordy, I'm very glad to have you on the show.

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I've been wanting to do this for a little while.

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You've been on my radar for a bit,

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but it was really when you did the Bitcoin IPO moment piece

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that you put on your sub stack

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that you sort of sprung to my attention.

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You've been an investor for 30 years, longer?

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30 plus years.

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I want to know from your perspective,

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what you see right now that you feel like everyone's missing.

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So there's a lot of things people are missing.

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most of them have to do with AI but the reason I decided to leave the traditional investing world

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was really you know two major reasons that fit in with a question you had number one I believe that

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the combination of AI and crypto was going to change the world very very rapidly with the speed

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coming from AI and the guardrails necessary for the speed coming from the crypto side

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but there's another angle too i believe that ai was also going to disrupt all

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bureaucracies and that this was going to be about being in the the speed rail um so i write a lot

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about the the problems of friction uh bitcoin to me represents the other side of friction

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that's my viewpoint so I made the decision that when I was talking to people in both the traditional

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finance world but also as I got more involved in the crypto side and I was kind of listening to what

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people were saying I very seldom meet anyone at all on either side that talks about what Michael

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Saylor talked about and it was his I'd say experience and I'm a very big experiential

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person so I listened to what people said but he's the only person I've heard talk about

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his business being disrupted by the speed of technology and then also what that led to in

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the basement and why he was so changes business specifically when you are you talking about when

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he uh you know first came onto the bitcoin scene he talked a lot about his 500 million dollar

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melting ice cube of money that he was sat on is that what you're referring to yeah i i mean that

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is basically to me what every diner on the streets of new york and every you know small business has

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gone through, which is you can't compete with better technology.

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And if you don't have this massive capital raising ability.

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And in his case, he talked about, I couldn't beat Microsoft.

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I'd have to invest and go a completely different path.

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And so that trapped feeling, and that's why his line of you don't find Bitcoin, Bitcoin

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finds you, was really what I think people are missing.

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I think my views are different in terms of the end game.

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But I think Michael's connection with the technology disruption and the speed of that and the inability to compete was really a big part of it.

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And he was obviously very early on that train.

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There's been a lot of talk of sort of institutional investment in Bitcoin.

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Some people saying it's already here.

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Obviously, there's been huge wins in terms of like the BlackRock ETF strategy sort of started the institutional investment.

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But we've not seen that much.

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Like, I don't feel like we've had the wave of institutional investment that people predicted.

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would you agree with that and why do you think that's the case we definitely have not um i so

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let's go back for a second because you said something which um i don't i don't agree with

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and it's not that we disagree it's that i think what you said it's important for people to hear

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what michael saylor did that makes his decision unique is he folded and i don't think people

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realize human beings don't like to fold especially if they've built their own business

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he folded and said i can't win so i'm going to take this big risk it wasn't an easy risk it was

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a big risk yeah and he had to go sell his board and all the story that comes with it i think there's

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thousands of mom pop businesses there's thousands of fords for big companies that don't fold and

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whatever reason that something he doesn get enough credit for i see so you you saying he was on like the very traditional playbook that path that every company goes on And he said okay that no longer works That was him folding He realized that like your point the melting ice

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cube, the inevitability and low probability outcomes to get there. And Bitcoin was a

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better solution for him. He just came at the right time because this was something I couldn't solve

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for myself, which was how do businesses that are failing?

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So now let's take it a different way.

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There's only seven companies working.

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How do the other billions of individuals compete with seven companies?

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And what he chose was Bitcoin.

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Now I don't think individuals themselves should go out there and do it.

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And we'll get to your institutional question, but I do think every individual needs to think

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of their own balance sheet the way Michael did, because I always say to like young kids

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in college, well, you have to care about Geordie Visser university.

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Like you have an LLC now.

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You come out, you graduate.

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Don't think of you work for this company.

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Think of your path.

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You're going to work for five, six, seven companies.

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That's your company.

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And as you make money and income,

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you have to decide what to do with your balance sheet.

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And if you spend it and you don't invest in it,

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you're probably not going to have as much

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unless your income is huge.

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I think if you really take a case study to what he did

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and get past all of the...

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He's been his own worst enemy in many ways

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in terms of the way he's approached it.

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But I know he doesn't care

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because he was the one that made the decision the person that makes the first decision in anything

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and then has a moat around that decision which he does is this so let's get to your institutional

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question um straddling both places now for two years meaning i've been embraced by the

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crypto slash bitcoin community um i know everyone in the macro world in the traditional finance

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world because i've been in it or was in it for 30 years and i developed some everyone developed

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some sort of respect in there and i've always been a thinker and i've always done content

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um i think this is a very simple thing michael also says you don't find bitcoin bitcoin finds you

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well for people that have nine trillion 900 trillion in assets the majority of them are in

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the top one percent and then when you go down in the top ten you're dealing with almost all of the

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world's money they don't need bitcoin so the reason they haven't embraced it is because they don't

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need it the reason they haven't embraced the other guardrails is because they don't care if their

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money settles in a period of time they don't care europe japan the us they don't care about the

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valuation we're not talking about you know brazil's imbabwe type hyperinflation we're just

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talking about okay no confiscation of your money worst case scenario you get a few scares every now

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and then in the case of europe you know you might get 17 years of no equity performance but it

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It doesn't really matter because you own a lot of real estate.

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I think that's starting to change now.

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And so I always say that one common thread between human beings that I've never like not seen is greed.

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They care about making money.

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And if for whatever reason fiat assets stop working, which I believe AI will do to all the 900 trillion,

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then you're left with a scenario that, oh my gosh, we've got to find something that is growing.

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And I think that's where crypto is right now.

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So you think that AI is going to be the catalyst that means the people who own the $900 trillion

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are going to need Bitcoin?

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There's no question in my mind.

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I'm a big, let's say, early stage Jeff Booth disciple in terms of embracing his view that

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innovation is inherently deflationary.

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Governments need to fight off the deflation.

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But at some point, two things happen.

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And we're at that point.

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Joseph Schumpeter also said that creative destruction occurs.

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It ultimately leads to socialism.

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And that's kind of where we're getting to, except there's another avenue to.

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So when you get to the point where the deflation gets so bad and the governments, even with

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their printing, all they're doing is siphoning the money into the wealthiest hands, you get

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what we have now which is people start comparing their life to the people that have the money but

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also that money that gets ends up there it drives real estate prices in Australia and in New York

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to places where the people who serve as police officers and nurses and everything else they

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can't afford to live there I have three daughters that are in the helping people field they can't

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afford to live where they want so they have to live outside the city they have to take a long

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commute so their lives are not good the schooling that they have to pay for if they want to live in

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manhattan they can't even if they live a a lifestyle where they sacrifice they can't afford

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to send their kids to school and that's because the distribution wealth has gotten so big so

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i think the jeff booth argument has reached the breaking point and where ai fits in is ai is a

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democratizing force for education you don't need to go to school yeah um i believe that when we get

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to humanoids, the cost of real estate will stop going higher because it'll be much easier to make

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things. You won't need the shortages of people. In the US, we had to bring in immigrants and we

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shut off immigration There just not enough reasonably priced labor for the housing market things like that So I a big believer that we reach the end game and people are underestimating AI And you asked at the beginning what are people missing I think everyone is underestimating the speed of AI And I already seen it over the last 12 months That where I

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spend my life. It's had a big impact on investing markets. If you didn't catch the AI move, you've

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missed huge returns for many, many names. So I've got so much I want to wash you in there, but

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everything you described there in terms of people not being able to live where they want to live

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It is like the fiat degradation of society, essentially.

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It's the K-shaped economy forcing people out of where they may be from, where they want to live.

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In Bitcoin, a lot of people talk about if we enter a Bitcoin standard, a hyper-Bitcoinized world,

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they talk about that scenario as if it's a bit of a utopia and things like that start reversing.

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Do you think that can be true?

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I think without AI, no.

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So what has happened now to change everything is that AI has reached a level where the agentic world is happening.

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The crypto world, because people don't even want to hear the story, and I see this with AI,

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when I talk to people about artificial intelligence, I can immediately tell whether they believe in it or they don't.

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I mean, I was around people today at the event where I can tell very quickly.

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And as I showed in my video this past weekend, the numbers are staggering of people who use AI and don't use AI.

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It's all demographics.

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55 and higher, they don't use AI.

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So that means my age bracket.

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I'm one of the 2%.

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And I don't use it from a chatbot perspective.

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I build with it.

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Well, that's what I was going to say.

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Because there's using AI as if it's Google.

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And then there's actually using AI.

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Yeah.

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And so when I hear economists say, we're going into a depression, we're going to have a big fall, the bubble's going to blow.

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I'm like, well, of course you say that. You don't use it.

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So how could you possibly understand?

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So for me, the utopia that'll come is that without the agentic side, that is the bridge.

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And I've been using the word bridge a lot lately, which is how do we go from the guardrails are built, they're faster, they're cheaper than the traditional payment system.

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Tokenization opens up fractional ownership.

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It opens up anyone owning a stock in any country in a digital virtual platform.

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Like these are things that should happen.

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They are very democratizing because it means if you've limited the ability for people to

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invest in things, the only thing they can really invest in is like an ETF, which allows

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you to buy fractional shares of Microsoft.

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So everyone is funneled into U.S.

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companies and the bigger companies that actually feeds this.

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Okay, you have a small business.

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You have no way of raising capital.

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Why?

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Well, you can go to the bank and you can borrow for a lot of money.

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but what if I have a great idea?

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Sorry, that's the only way you can do it.

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As opposed to, hey, I have a community of a billion people

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that love what I do.

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And I use Justin Bieber as like this example

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where Justin Bieber had to go to the bank.

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The bank was Scooter Braun.

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Braun, he took most of his business.

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Then he goes off and makes all this money.

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He would have owned most of that himself,

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but in today's world of tokenization and programmable money,

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he would have given his community royalties on his stuff

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and they'd all be successful.

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as opposed to Scooter Braun taking all this money.

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So you get the distribution of wealth

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that's going to happen through democratization of ownership,

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the democratization of education, all of those things.

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But without AI agents that serve as the bridge,

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the translation, it wouldn't happen, in my opinion.

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You wouldn't get to the point,

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because what does it matter if crypto is $3 trillion market cap

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or $6 trillion, if we've got $900 trillion on the other side?

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It's a nice little party game,

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but it's not something that is ever going to be anything.

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And for people that were early into it, like yourself, more so than me, they deserve the payoff.

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And the payoff comes when the AI agents come and that just happens.

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243
00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:58,770
So I do want to understand your sort of AI framework a little more. So you say that

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Bitcoin or crypto will be the guardrail. What does that actually mean?

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So agents can't work on Visa and MasterCard. They want to work on speed. They have to make

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17 transactions and their goal is going to be very simple, save people money. So Muse just came out.

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all you have to do is go type into anything and say what are the majority of people saying about

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the benefits from muse and all of them have to do with saving money and time that's what ai agents

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allow you to do yeah i use it all day long um before we sat down when i was downstairs waiting

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for you i literally had the time to go and this has probably happened to everyone you know when

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you try to use a new service um this happened because i had to sign a document online and i

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I refuse to pay for DocuSign.

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And so I just keep going through all the free trials

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and I'll use a thing, get a free trial.

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Next time I'll use a different Google email

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and I'll keep going.

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But the mistake is they give you a free trial

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for only 30 days.

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And then you have to remember to go cancel it.

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So if you do this all the time,

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and let's assume you do 75 free trials in a day,

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you're gonna miss one

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and then you're gonna be paying for a service

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for the next 12 months.

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I do this all the time.

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Okay.

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Well, with Muse, you just say,

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I just did this and it reminded me in 10 days so I can go in and cancel it.

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And in some cases, it'll cancel for you if you give it your Google password in this.

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So I've given it most of my passwords.

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So Muse will prevent that from day one, meaning before I hit it, I go, hey, just remind me

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in 10 days so that we can do this and then it will do it for you.

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This is what you're getting into.

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So the reason that's so important is by saving money, the same thing is going to happen.

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That's its goal.

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Its goal is to save you money.

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Well, what's cheaper?

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to use an AI agent to book something or to do it yourself. And everyone's going to start to realize

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I'm going to give it more trust. So I've said to a lot of people that, I think his name is William

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McGuire. I think that's how you pronounce it, McGuire. He talked about trust being a valuation

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tool for an asset. And I think we're getting into that. So part of what AI is going to do,

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It'll handle the speed of the rails.

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So the crypto rails that were set up to handle everything will go.

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Tokenization will be heavily agentic.

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We already have agentic trading.

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So Robin Hood has talked about tokenization and agentic trading combined together.

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This is all going to happen.

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So whether it's Muse connecting to agentic payments, whether it's Stripe doing an entire

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stack over the last 18 months of things prepping for this, I don't just live in a world of my vision.

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I've been thinking about this for well over a year, and I wrote a paper this week on it,

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And I said, I said at the panel, this paper came out recently because the price of Bitcoin went higher after bad news.

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It handled bad news really well.

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The agentic side came out and tokenization was going to happen.

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But I knew tokenization would not go fast enough unless we had the agentic side.

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So now it's all come together.

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So now it's the right time to release a paper.

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This was my vision on what would happening because to me, AI is inevitable as the linkage for crypto.

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Okay.

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00:20:06,170 --> 00:20:09,370
I don't want to go down too much of a tangent here, but you just said that Bitcoin went higher

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00:20:09,370 --> 00:20:14,010
on bad news recently. What was the bad news? Was that the interest rate hike?

301
00:20:14,570 --> 00:20:20,890
No. So you can take the interest rate height. You can take the failure of the clarity act,

302
00:20:20,890 --> 00:20:27,050
but let's go back to when it was doing well in August in particular, let's say July,

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00:20:27,050 --> 00:20:32,410
because it was really the end of July that you got the change where of course the, the people that

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00:20:32,410 --> 00:20:36,490
that are left, the only enthusiasts, the only people that wear their orange ties

305
00:20:36,790 --> 00:20:38,590
are the debasement libertarian crowd.

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00:20:38,590 --> 00:20:42,550
So when Besant decided to intervene in the yen,

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I wrote a paper and everyone realized, oh my God,

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then he did the quarterly refunding announcement.

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Everyone, okay, here we go.

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The debasement is going to go gold, shoots up all this stuff.

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happens and everyone gets excited gold's gone back down to right where it was like when we came in

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00:20:55,171 --> 00:20:59,011
here i didn't actually know that yeah it's gold has given up most of what it is and the reason is

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because rates have gone higher yeah but this was really in july where you had the cold wallet

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situation you had the clarity act going from as high as 50 probability of getting done to

315
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dropping down to the you know the the mid-20s before it went down further and ultimately failed

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uh you had the ai trade completely unwinding yeah during the month of july you had a lot of things

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happening where the narratives on bitcoin are it's a it's a high beta tech side okay well ai was

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unwinding you had the rate situation wasn't responding to rates because we built in fed rate

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hikes where we still had not had everything kind of changed in that month and it acted well meaning

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it wasn't going down and then the second that the intervention in the end happened and then all the

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00:21:44,191 --> 00:21:49,351
subsequent things that went on that ultimately didn't stop the rate move higher. That just got

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00:21:49,351 --> 00:21:53,871
the debasement crowd excited, but it even broke away from gold where gold has gone down and Bitcoin

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still near the highs of the move. So what do you think the reason for that is then? Because

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00:21:58,791 --> 00:22:03,791
you could say that Bitcoin was already down, you know, 50%. It had its bear market and was it just

325
00:22:03,791 --> 00:22:07,331
ready to move higher anyway? Like, why do you think it moved when nothing else did?

326
00:22:07,331 --> 00:22:12,131
No, because there were other parts. So I created a, here's the problem.

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00:22:12,131 --> 00:22:22,531
um i love the community but for the hardliner bitcoin crowd that call the other cryptocurrency

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00:22:22,531 --> 00:22:28,451
shit coins um i've kind of left myself out of this little debate and i've broken it down into

329
00:22:28,451 --> 00:22:32,371
three let's say nicer ways to put everything you got the bitcoiners they get to keep their name

330
00:22:32,371 --> 00:22:37,811
see that's great um i call the shit corners programmables okay they're the technologists

331
00:22:37,811 --> 00:22:41,651
in the space that are trying to relive what happened with the internet and then you have

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00:22:41,651 --> 00:22:47,331
the incumbents now the incumbents are the people with the 900 trillion for this to work all three

333
00:22:47,331 --> 00:22:53,091
need to agree that the crypto ecosystem is going to work there is no way that i can come up with a

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00:22:53,091 --> 00:22:59,091
scenario where the 900 trillion go you know what bitcoin is a good asset for us to move into unless

335
00:22:59,891 --> 00:23:04,771
every time you debase what seems to happen is they get more money yeah and they don't move it over

336
00:23:05,571 --> 00:23:09,731
so debasement's not the solution guys like i don't know who came up with this i understand that it

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00:23:09,731 --> 00:23:13,911
it did work for the first 15 years, but that's kind of the way all innovations work. And I think

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00:23:13,911 --> 00:23:18,731
that's the issue. Marc Andreessen, I always reference the paper he wrote, Why Bitcoin Matters.

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00:23:18,731 --> 00:23:23,991
And he wrote it in 2014 in January. It doesn't get talked about by a lot of the Bitcoin crowd

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00:23:23,991 --> 00:23:30,151
because it really immortalized the white paper itself and it talked about the innovation.

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00:23:30,711 --> 00:23:36,311
But within there, he kind of described the value, which was tokenization. He didn't call tokenization,

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00:23:36,311 --> 00:23:41,551
but that's what it was, the transference of assets and having it the way it's gone.

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00:23:42,231 --> 00:23:48,491
He talked about stablecoins and he mentioned Bitcoin, but the stablecoins replaced Bitcoin

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as kind of the original theme, I think, that people thought that Marc Andreessen was covering.

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00:23:52,731 --> 00:23:57,251
So you have this paper he wrote about, not once did he mention debasement as the thing.

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00:23:57,631 --> 00:24:02,491
Now, Marc Andreessen's a lot smarter on the importance of innovation. So I call him the

347
00:24:02,491 --> 00:24:06,451
godfather of the programmable part michael saylor's godfather of the bitcoiners and the

348
00:24:06,451 --> 00:24:11,031
incumbents their ego is so big that they each consider themselves the gods of the incumbent

349
00:24:11,031 --> 00:24:14,991
side so um to get them to convince them to put their money into something that

350
00:24:14,991 --> 00:24:19,231
they don't know and they've publicly said like jamie diamond

351
00:24:19,231 --> 00:24:27,091
warren buffett charlie munger the zero value um the fact that jamie diamond is now

352
00:24:27,091 --> 00:24:34,251
involved in promoting it is only for one reason fear of competition why is he doing it he sees

353
00:24:34,251 --> 00:24:38,791
what black rock are doing exactly and they need to be a part of it so what ends up happening with

354
00:24:38,791 --> 00:24:43,531
anything like that is mark andreison called this perfectly the only reason that they're involved

355
00:24:43,531 --> 00:24:48,331
though is not because of bitcoin jamie diamond did not turn because bitcoin went up to a certain

356
00:24:48,331 --> 00:24:54,771
level he turned because of tokenization and stable coins so the incumbents are now seeing the bridge

357
00:24:54,771 --> 00:24:56,711
and the investors are like, you know what?

358
00:24:56,731 --> 00:24:57,611
I can buy into this.

359
00:24:57,731 --> 00:24:59,531
So now you're going to start having fundamentals

360
00:24:59,531 --> 00:25:01,411
that people can latch onto.

361
00:25:01,951 --> 00:25:03,851
You're starting, and that's what Robin Hood chain,

362
00:25:03,951 --> 00:25:04,971
that's the importance of it.

363
00:25:05,091 --> 00:25:07,351
Now, none of that matters without the agentic side

364
00:25:07,351 --> 00:25:09,131
because the agentic side brings the volume.

365
00:25:09,351 --> 00:25:11,851
And when you have a business that has very low fees,

366
00:25:11,851 --> 00:25:14,291
the only way it makes any mathematical sense

367
00:25:14,291 --> 00:25:16,591
is with extreme volumes.

368
00:25:17,351 --> 00:25:20,171
Now, what have we seen that people underestimated

369
00:25:20,171 --> 00:25:21,351
that had extreme volumes?

370
00:25:21,351 --> 00:25:31,491
so i publicly talked about micron for well over a year and i talked about it all to the incumbents

371
00:25:31,491 --> 00:25:37,451
last year and i've given these numbers out because i just want to make sure people realize my view on

372
00:25:37,451 --> 00:25:42,611
where bitcoin will be in a year where all of the crypto ecosystem will be don't underestimate ai is

373
00:25:42,611 --> 00:25:48,471
the point so micron from all of the people that cover it well and know everything about the company

374
00:25:48,471 --> 00:25:51,891
their forecasted earnings per share

375
00:25:51,891 --> 00:25:53,951
for the end of this year, 2026,

376
00:25:53,951 --> 00:25:55,471
as of the first quarter of,

377
00:25:55,471 --> 00:26:09,325
or the second quarter of last year they were expected for this year They now expected to be So they were wrong by an amount that just unfathomable

378
00:26:09,805 --> 00:26:11,125
So the question is what happened?

379
00:26:11,205 --> 00:26:13,005
Well, they underestimated AI.

380
00:26:13,005 --> 00:26:15,685
Now, the problem is the reason I was writing papers,

381
00:26:15,785 --> 00:26:18,025
but I'm like, don't you guys see the tokens that are happening?

382
00:26:18,325 --> 00:26:19,545
Inference is going to explode.

383
00:26:19,685 --> 00:26:21,725
Now we had the tariffs going on at that time,

384
00:26:21,785 --> 00:26:23,985
but I'm telling you the smartest people in the world said,

385
00:26:24,085 --> 00:26:24,965
what's a token?

386
00:26:25,925 --> 00:26:27,425
Now, here we are a year later.

387
00:26:27,505 --> 00:26:30,865
That whole token word is really important again.

388
00:26:30,865 --> 00:26:31,945
They're not paying attention.

389
00:26:32,445 --> 00:26:38,265
So I'm just telling you that people are underestimating the volume and speed and how you make money.

390
00:26:38,445 --> 00:26:44,725
Those tokens took, and I joke about this because when I was in DC last week, I had to give a speech.

391
00:26:44,725 --> 00:26:46,965
And what I said was, do you know the Clarity Act?

392
00:26:47,105 --> 00:26:51,325
By the time the Clarity Act started as an initial attempt to when it failed,

393
00:26:51,325 --> 00:26:57,505
anthropic went from being a 3 billion revenue company to where they are now about 80 billion

394
00:26:57,505 --> 00:27:01,485
revenue company their valuation went from about 50 billion to two or three trillion

395
00:27:01,485 --> 00:27:07,965
that's what friction looks like to bring up clarity for it to fail and then to have the cftc

396
00:27:07,965 --> 00:27:11,645
and the sec and everyone come out with their rule changes on the whole thing and saying you guys can

397
00:27:11,645 --> 00:27:15,905
do this for the next three years four years five years whatever the case um all of that's happened

398
00:27:15,905 --> 00:27:20,545
so never underestimate the power of the speed and the volume of ai i think people have lost

399
00:27:20,545 --> 00:27:23,685
a lot of potential money on it. I think crypto is going to fit the same way.

400
00:27:24,205 --> 00:27:27,045
Okay. So I definitely want to come back to the AI market as it stands right now,

401
00:27:27,045 --> 00:27:30,945
but just quickly on the debasement thing, because I've not heard someone say that Bitcoin is not a,

402
00:27:30,945 --> 00:27:38,425
not a debasement hedge. Um, is it that it is that, but that's not the most important story

403
00:27:38,425 --> 00:27:42,265
because if it, if it's not that it kind of means that the scarcity of Bitcoin is not important.

404
00:27:43,325 --> 00:27:49,885
So the scarcity of Bitcoin is not important to the debasement theme as my reality. If it was,

405
00:27:49,885 --> 00:27:55,405
it would be up far more like i don't even understand the concept of what it means i the

406
00:27:55,405 --> 00:28:00,845
scarcity thing i believe in but the reason i believe in the scarcity is because bitcoin has

407
00:28:00,845 --> 00:28:12,365
a moat on time so ai makes everything everything either hackable or replaceable so a house the

408
00:28:12,365 --> 00:28:17,485
value of a house you have to have margin in it okay how do you price in humanoids when they can

409
00:28:17,485 --> 00:28:24,845
work 24 7 and we're solving problems for nano and all of this stuff to where if the input costs go

410
00:28:24,845 --> 00:28:28,045
down to zero then what's the value of a house sitting next to it if it costs zero to build the

411
00:28:28,045 --> 00:28:34,925
one next to it would rather use the land then yeah and that's it and in the end okay how much is the

412
00:28:34,925 --> 00:28:39,965
land really worth this is a mistake that i think people make is well how much does the land work

413
00:28:39,965 --> 00:28:46,205
people didn't buy i mean no offense to the people who own land and go through this and i agree having

414
00:28:46,205 --> 00:28:51,565
a beautiful view is worth a good amount of money to show off but if you're in a world of abundance

415
00:28:51,565 --> 00:28:55,565
i don't know what showing off your big house means when virtual reality allows you to travel

416
00:28:55,565 --> 00:28:59,485
anywhere so when you start getting into sci-fi things and again we're past the point of getting

417
00:28:59,485 --> 00:29:05,805
into them we have a company that raised a lot of money to go to mars so like land is about to get

418
00:29:05,805 --> 00:29:09,965
much more expansive at some point and maybe people would rather be on the moon maybe that'll be the

419
00:29:09,965 --> 00:29:14,845
most expensive property i just know that when you think about scarcity you have to bring in the fact

420
00:29:14,845 --> 00:29:22,845
that ai all technology does um there's a reason why napster you know was a company and then they

421
00:29:22,845 --> 00:29:28,925
were banned because they were making music free and it was this whole thing when i mentioned william

422
00:29:28,925 --> 00:29:35,725
uh muguayar one of the reasons i became i started listening to him on his pitch on ethereum was

423
00:29:35,725 --> 00:29:39,565
because he was saying very smart things but he was connected to napster and so he understood the peer

424
00:29:39,565 --> 00:29:44,605
to peer side so napster is a very important thing in like the bitcoin journey for me because i already

425
00:29:44,605 --> 00:29:50,205
saw it before the whole internet came blew up the white paper came you had this thing where you could

426
00:29:50,205 --> 00:29:55,245
steal things and it's a big part of the scarcity issue i just think when people do the scarcity

427
00:29:55,245 --> 00:30:01,405
there's the first phase which is the ideologues want to hide their money away from the government

428
00:30:01,405 --> 00:30:06,845
i get it and they moved it in and it was a great decision and people made a lot of money off it

429
00:30:06,845 --> 00:30:14,045
i just think going forward people are missing the fact that bitcoin didn't outperform

430
00:30:14,045 --> 00:30:19,885
the mag seven it did overall but not to a point that people care the incumbents the incumbents

431
00:30:19,885 --> 00:30:24,285
made tons of money being along the mag seven because they went up at a very fast pace and

432
00:30:24,285 --> 00:30:29,565
i think right now bitcoin relatives of mag seven is like the same level as 2016 or 17.

433
00:30:29,565 --> 00:30:35,965
so even in like a big thing it didn't work during the basement everything worked during the basement

434
00:30:35,965 --> 00:30:41,725
so the stuff that isn't scarce worked too so i think people may have been using this narrative

435
00:30:41,725 --> 00:30:46,985
in a way that helped it but i think the next phase to turn it into a hundred trillion dollar

436
00:30:46,985 --> 00:30:52,505
200 trillion whatever you want the size to be you actually need people to doubt the investments they

437
00:30:52,505 --> 00:30:58,005
have and that's not about the basement because if you keep debasing those things never lose value

438
00:30:58,005 --> 00:31:04,665
that's the whole point that actually makes sense so so the demonetization of things like real estate

439
00:31:04,665 --> 00:31:22,278
how that one i understand and the thing that i don necessarily understand is what that means for things like the stock market because i mean right now the stock market is AI like there almost nothing else interesting happening there What does it mean for those investments So I written about this a

440
00:31:22,278 --> 00:31:26,098
lot. There's two things about what are going to happen, which are going to destroy the

441
00:31:26,098 --> 00:31:31,478
growth of public equities. And what I want to make sure people understand, this is not

442
00:31:31,478 --> 00:31:38,098
a bearish argument. So if you put lots of money into the system and you use this debasement

443
00:31:38,098 --> 00:31:43,478
theme, okay, the total sum of the assets has just gone higher with debasement and Bitcoin's been a

444
00:31:43,478 --> 00:31:48,098
part of it. So how is it the best debasement asset? It doesn't make any sense to me. Okay.

445
00:31:49,238 --> 00:31:55,678
What I think people should be paying more attention to is at some point you start to

446
00:31:55,678 --> 00:32:00,798
realize, well, wait a second, the money's not going into all people. It's going into the biggest

447
00:32:00,798 --> 00:32:06,518
people, the ones that own the assets. So it's a funneling into those things. What has to happen

448
00:32:06,518 --> 00:32:09,258
is there needs to be a democratization of ownership.

449
00:32:09,698 --> 00:32:14,278
The money needs to go to the 8 billion people that don't have anything.

450
00:32:14,658 --> 00:32:16,438
So you're talking about the canceling effect here?

451
00:32:16,758 --> 00:32:17,158
Yes.

452
00:32:17,358 --> 00:32:22,058
But the way that it'll work is that AI allows me to grow a business

453
00:32:22,058 --> 00:32:24,098
without any investors and without any people.

454
00:32:25,478 --> 00:32:29,538
The biggest risk for public companies is that, number one, they're big.

455
00:32:29,898 --> 00:32:33,178
So they could stay big and relevant and they can look like Ford.

456
00:32:33,458 --> 00:32:36,138
And I pick on Ford, but it could be GM.

457
00:32:36,138 --> 00:32:40,618
it could be a lot of different companies but the reality is how long has ford been around for i mean

458
00:32:40,618 --> 00:32:46,698
they've been around for a hundred years yeah they stopped growing a long time ago assets can survive

459
00:32:46,698 --> 00:32:51,978
and have a function but if they're not growing they won't take in any new money so it's not that

460
00:32:51,978 --> 00:33:00,058
the stock market will collapse it's that on the one side if tokenization happens the where capital

461
00:33:00,058 --> 00:33:06,218
can go if they don't print like trillions more dollars and all of a sudden you have a lot of

462
00:33:06,218 --> 00:33:13,118
tokens being listed i don't know how many viewers your podcast has but if i told you that there were

463
00:33:13,118 --> 00:33:18,198
a billion more podcasts tomorrow you're probably going to be affected your growth will be affected

464
00:33:18,198 --> 00:33:22,858
now your content could be the best out there it'll keep growing at some pace but there's no way having

465
00:33:22,858 --> 00:33:28,758
access to a trillion more podcast isn't going to saturate it of course that's what's coming with

466
00:33:28,758 --> 00:33:34,978
tokenization so private credit will be liquid so people will be able to have their money and things

467
00:33:34,978 --> 00:33:40,278
you'll be able to have ip like all of these things are going to happen because once you can tokenize

468
00:33:40,278 --> 00:33:46,418
anything which is really what happened with crypto you can tokenize any idea and community-based

469
00:33:46,418 --> 00:33:50,158
investing to me is going to happen so i think public equities are just going to lose their growth

470
00:33:50,158 --> 00:33:54,958
and that'll happen partly through tokenization and partly through the ability of entrepreneurs

471
00:33:54,958 --> 00:33:56,358
to compete with big businesses.

472
00:33:56,498 --> 00:33:58,738
Big businesses of which I worked for one,

473
00:33:59,238 --> 00:34:01,678
but then even moved to another one that had 100 people.

474
00:34:01,838 --> 00:34:03,598
So when I go from Morgan Stanley

475
00:34:03,598 --> 00:34:05,658
and it started with 10,000 and ends up at, say,

476
00:34:06,198 --> 00:34:08,118
50,000 people by the time I left,

477
00:34:09,018 --> 00:34:10,898
it's a bureaucracy.

478
00:34:11,398 --> 00:34:14,458
It's like a government, but yet they've been winning.

479
00:34:14,458 --> 00:34:16,758
How can a big bureaucracy win?

480
00:34:16,898 --> 00:34:18,558
Well, they have some moat.

481
00:34:18,558 --> 00:34:19,618
They're getting the talent.

482
00:34:19,758 --> 00:34:20,278
They're getting this.

483
00:34:20,358 --> 00:34:21,778
They're getting the best educated people.

484
00:34:21,938 --> 00:34:23,718
I came in at the bottom level from a school

485
00:34:23,718 --> 00:34:25,218
that they didn't normally hire from.

486
00:34:26,638 --> 00:34:28,798
That's what democratization of education is going to do.

487
00:34:28,858 --> 00:34:30,878
It's going to open up entrepreneurs in Africa

488
00:34:30,878 --> 00:34:32,778
and entrepreneurs in Brazil and Australia,

489
00:34:32,898 --> 00:34:34,518
people that maybe didn't go to the best schools,

490
00:34:34,878 --> 00:34:35,418
but like, you know what?

491
00:34:35,438 --> 00:34:36,038
I'm going to sit at home

492
00:34:36,038 --> 00:34:37,698
and I'm going to create a podcast to compete with Danny.

493
00:34:37,878 --> 00:34:39,358
I'm going to create, I'm going to compete with Jordy.

494
00:34:39,418 --> 00:34:39,918
I'm going to compete.

495
00:34:40,118 --> 00:34:42,778
I'm going to make something and sell it over the internet.

496
00:34:43,138 --> 00:34:44,198
All of a sudden this stuff,

497
00:34:44,238 --> 00:34:46,198
and as long as you create something that people want

498
00:34:46,198 --> 00:34:48,238
and now they have access to it

499
00:34:48,238 --> 00:34:49,718
and your agent will find it

500
00:34:49,718 --> 00:34:51,678
because they'll be able to weed through everything

501
00:34:51,678 --> 00:34:52,878
and know what you like,

502
00:34:52,878 --> 00:34:57,718
all of a sudden you're going to see a democracy or a distribution of opportunity for people that

503
00:34:57,718 --> 00:35:02,458
didn't exist do you think they'll be in that incumbent class that you described do you think

504
00:35:02,458 --> 00:35:06,718
everyone is going to push back against this because it's so disruptive and scary as they

505
00:35:06,718 --> 00:35:10,838
are the ones with the moat do you think they're going to push back heavily against this i mean

506
00:35:10,838 --> 00:35:19,898
they have i think that's what the crypto you know winter was about um i think a lot of the vc places

507
00:35:19,898 --> 00:35:24,138
that, I mean, they funded 21 and 22.

508
00:35:25,518 --> 00:35:26,638
It wasn't debt.

509
00:35:26,778 --> 00:35:29,038
It was literally this wave of capital.

510
00:35:29,198 --> 00:35:30,858
I mean, I was joking with someone today

511
00:35:30,858 --> 00:35:32,078
who was like, hey, so-and-so.

512
00:35:32,158 --> 00:35:35,118
I'm like, and they worked at a Wall Street bank.

513
00:35:35,738 --> 00:35:39,778
And they're like, yeah, it's been a tough few years.

514
00:35:39,898 --> 00:35:43,338
I'm like, oh, so did you join in 21, 22?

515
00:35:44,218 --> 00:35:45,398
Yeah, okay.

516
00:35:45,398 --> 00:35:48,338
And in 30s, 40s.

517
00:35:48,338 --> 00:35:50,578
but really when they joined 30s.

518
00:35:51,198 --> 00:35:53,298
The thing that that says to me is that

519
00:35:53,298 --> 00:35:56,458
crypto got a wave of VC money in.

520
00:35:57,058 --> 00:35:59,958
Those VCs gave it to crypto companies on the vision.

521
00:36:00,638 --> 00:36:03,118
Most of those VCs have now become Republicans

522
00:36:03,118 --> 00:36:05,378
because of the experience of what happened,

523
00:36:05,498 --> 00:36:07,138
what they learned from crypto and with SaaS

524
00:36:07,138 --> 00:36:09,058
and the fact that we were going to regulate tech.

525
00:36:09,418 --> 00:36:10,958
And they became more libertarians.

526
00:36:11,038 --> 00:36:13,598
And they were like, hey, we don't believe in this.

527
00:36:13,638 --> 00:36:15,238
And we were help giving money.

528
00:36:15,238 --> 00:36:18,478
I think politics became part of kind of the,

529
00:36:18,478 --> 00:36:34,871
let say the thing that has really made the country polarizing has been what you described which is people fighting back on people not able to participate And so socialism becomes the voting movement as well

530
00:36:34,871 --> 00:36:36,731
So you get the far right and the far left

531
00:36:36,731 --> 00:36:38,911
because there's people that either don't like the,

532
00:36:38,911 --> 00:36:41,251
hey, you're intervening too much in our life

533
00:36:41,251 --> 00:36:43,511
and generally they have more money or on the other side,

534
00:36:43,511 --> 00:36:45,471
hey, you're not allowing us to participate.

535
00:36:45,471 --> 00:36:47,591
And those fringes are getting more important

536
00:36:47,591 --> 00:36:48,431
and more important.

537
00:36:48,431 --> 00:36:51,371
And I think they all lead back to a place of what's positive

538
00:36:51,371 --> 00:36:52,671
for AI and positive for crypto.

539
00:36:52,671 --> 00:36:55,511
And I don't think the big has a chance to fight it.

540
00:36:55,571 --> 00:36:56,331
I just don't.

541
00:36:56,551 --> 00:36:58,391
I mean, I think what you said there is clearly right.

542
00:36:58,491 --> 00:37:01,371
That everything that happened, say post-COVID

543
00:37:01,371 --> 00:37:03,111
with the money printing has definitely created

544
00:37:03,111 --> 00:37:04,211
more of a K-shaped economy.

545
00:37:04,631 --> 00:37:06,131
And I also understand, you know,

546
00:37:06,171 --> 00:37:07,711
the people who are on the bottom end of that,

547
00:37:07,971 --> 00:37:09,791
who do tend to lean more socialist,

548
00:37:09,971 --> 00:37:11,891
more even like communist at the extreme.

549
00:37:12,131 --> 00:37:13,231
I understand the frustration.

550
00:37:13,451 --> 00:37:16,411
Like, I think that they're diagnosing the problem

551
00:37:16,411 --> 00:37:17,771
and misdiagnosing the solution.

552
00:37:18,151 --> 00:37:20,071
But like, I understand the frustration.

553
00:37:20,071 --> 00:37:25,151
um i'm really interested though because one of the things i've been talking about a lot recently

554
00:37:25,151 --> 00:37:31,571
is like the ai bubble if it exists um i think to a degree it probably does but do you think

555
00:37:31,571 --> 00:37:36,091
this the ai trade which you described earlier is like if you've not been in that last year or two

556
00:37:36,091 --> 00:37:41,391
you've you've absolutely lost do you think it is coming to a close you wouldn't reuse a bitcoin

557
00:37:41,391 --> 00:37:47,191
address so why does your phone broadcast the same identifier for life every sim has a static id and

558
00:37:47,191 --> 00:37:50,731
carriers ad networks and bad actors all use it to track you.

559
00:37:50,751 --> 00:37:54,291
The big carriers have been caught selling that data over and over again.

560
00:37:54,311 --> 00:37:57,191
Cape is America's privacy first mobile carrier.

561
00:37:57,211 --> 00:38:00,971
Their identifier rotation feature changes your ID every 24 hours.

562
00:38:00,991 --> 00:38:03,811
So you look like a different subscriber every single day.

563
00:38:03,831 --> 00:38:05,571
And sim swaps are off the table.

564
00:38:05,591 --> 00:38:09,191
Your number can't move without a 24 word phrase that only you hold.

565
00:38:09,211 --> 00:38:12,331
There's also no name at sign up, no social security number,

566
00:38:12,351 --> 00:38:14,571
and there's no profile to build on you.

567
00:38:14,571 --> 00:38:18,231
If you're a Bitcoiner in America, I honestly don't know why you'd use any other network.

568
00:38:18,531 --> 00:38:25,131
You can head over to cape.co forward slash WBD and use the code WBD for 33% off your first six months.

569
00:38:25,551 --> 00:38:29,511
That's C-A-P-E dot co forward slash WBD.

570
00:38:29,751 --> 00:38:33,751
Recent hardware wallet vulnerabilities have definitely made me rethink my entire security setup,

571
00:38:33,991 --> 00:38:35,571
as I'm sure it has for a lot of Bitcoiners.

572
00:38:35,571 --> 00:38:39,851
And the uncomfortable truth is that no single security product can promise there'll never be a problem,

573
00:38:40,251 --> 00:38:42,211
which is exactly why the design matters.

574
00:38:42,211 --> 00:38:47,311
BitKey is a self-custody hardware wallet that uses three keys created in three separate environments

575
00:38:47,311 --> 00:38:52,271
There's one on your phone, one on the BitKey hardware itself and one on a secure BitKey server

576
00:38:52,271 --> 00:38:55,431
Two of those three keys are required to sign any transaction

577
00:38:55,431 --> 00:38:59,191
So a problem isolated to just one key is never enough to move your Bitcoin

578
00:38:59,191 --> 00:39:02,571
So if you are rethinking your setup right now, as I'm sure a lot of people are

579
00:39:02,571 --> 00:39:04,091
You should really think about the BitKey

580
00:39:04,091 --> 00:39:07,751
The hardware looks great, the app and the user experience is second to none

581
00:39:07,751 --> 00:39:11,971
Backing up and restoring your wallet is seamless and they even have inheritance built in

582
00:39:11,971 --> 00:39:13,731
So I really don't think you'd be disappointed.

583
00:39:14,591 --> 00:39:15,791
So download BitKey today.

584
00:39:16,031 --> 00:39:19,271
Use the code WBD for 10% off the second generation BitKey,

585
00:39:19,391 --> 00:39:21,191
which is this device right here with the screen.

586
00:39:22,151 --> 00:39:23,671
Download the app, download BitKey,

587
00:39:23,951 --> 00:39:26,191
use code WBD and get 10% off.

588
00:39:30,351 --> 00:39:35,171
So I wrote a paper in June,

589
00:39:35,651 --> 00:39:38,351
basically titled The Firework Show is Over.

590
00:39:38,351 --> 00:39:47,231
so uh number one i i want to make sure i get this there there is the word bubble is used so much

591
00:39:47,231 --> 00:39:56,171
yeah you couldn't name one thing one thing bars are a bubble hairdressers are a bubble like at

592
00:39:56,171 --> 00:40:01,011
some point you walk down the street and you're like why are there so many of these so i just

593
00:40:01,011 --> 00:40:05,811
think people use this in the context of it's going to take the economy down so i just want to make

594
00:40:05,811 --> 00:40:11,311
sure people get this straight. The only time there's a bubble that matters from an investment

595
00:40:11,311 --> 00:40:20,651
standpoint is when supply is too big to be saturated by the demand. Here's a bubble,

596
00:40:21,251 --> 00:40:29,551
the crypto guardrails in 21, 22. So much money went into the space and there were kids coming

597
00:40:29,551 --> 00:40:33,711
from Wall Street. I'm quitting my job, Jordy. What do you think? I'm going to go over. I'm like,

598
00:40:33,711 --> 00:40:34,851
All right, great. Have a good time.

599
00:40:35,151 --> 00:40:37,051
And I'm not going to name the companies they were going to,

600
00:40:37,111 --> 00:40:38,051
but I mean, at Goldman Sachs,

601
00:40:38,071 --> 00:40:40,331
it was like every day I got a call from some young person going,

602
00:40:40,411 --> 00:40:41,351
I'm going to go over there. What do you think?

603
00:40:41,991 --> 00:40:43,051
I'm guessing FTX.

604
00:40:44,051 --> 00:40:46,391
I mean, FTX, Galaxy, it doesn't really matter.

605
00:40:46,391 --> 00:40:50,871
I mean, whoever had the most connections back to the bank,

606
00:40:50,991 --> 00:40:51,671
they were going there.

607
00:40:51,731 --> 00:40:52,891
But FTX was brought up from,

608
00:40:53,071 --> 00:40:54,951
that was the one place that Wall Street did invest in.

609
00:40:55,711 --> 00:40:58,771
Regardless, that was a bubble.

610
00:40:58,771 --> 00:41:05,651
now it was a bubble in the fact that too much money came in before the demand was there yeah

611
00:41:05,651 --> 00:41:11,331
do i think nfts are a great idea yeah i actually do not the art side but i think memories and

612
00:41:11,331 --> 00:41:17,731
experiences that you can digitally keep just like memorabilia with inside the physical world

613
00:41:17,731 --> 00:41:22,451
seems far more important to me in a digital world and to younger people than the actual physical

614
00:41:22,451 --> 00:41:26,831
side i don't want i don't want to get off on a tangent on it but i'm a big believer in nfts and

615
00:41:26,831 --> 00:41:29,491
in a certain context, but it was too early.

616
00:41:29,491 --> 00:41:31,591
There was there was it didn't make any sense

617
00:41:31,591 --> 00:41:34,411
and it was too much money going into something new speculating on it.

618
00:41:34,751 --> 00:41:37,171
This was the dot com bubble for crypto.

619
00:41:37,891 --> 00:41:39,991
The AI side is not a bubble.

620
00:41:39,997 --> 00:41:44,777
The AI side is a bubble if you say, are all the companies going to make it? No. And the firework

621
00:41:44,777 --> 00:41:50,197
show was it was easy to make money in the AI infrastructure trade and in the duopoly that

622
00:41:50,197 --> 00:41:57,237
was created with OpenAI and Anthropic. It's over. Micron, which is trading now at whatever,

623
00:41:57,477 --> 00:42:03,577
4 PE, depending on what earnings you use. Do I think it's going to go up again? Yeah. But do I

624
00:42:03,577 --> 00:42:09,957
think the multiple is low? I've called this a bull market with inside a bear market. There are

625
00:42:09,957 --> 00:42:14,497
two types of bear markets. One is where the price goes down, the other one where the PEs go down.

626
00:42:14,697 --> 00:42:19,537
That's what's happening to equities. They're no longer being valued the same way. Crypto on the

627
00:42:19,537 --> 00:42:26,437
other end, I've used Peter Lynch, one of the most famous, I would say, contrarian investors who wrote

628
00:42:26,437 --> 00:42:32,757
a book called One Up on Wall Street, who literally wrote, the key thing to finding great ideas is to

629
00:42:32,757 --> 00:42:38,577
find things that are undercovered by the sell side and that are still small and haven't been

630
00:42:38,577 --> 00:42:44,017
invested in yet. That is crypto. That is the exact definition. Wall Street doesn't know anything

631
00:42:44,017 --> 00:42:50,377
about it. I write research and I've got 46 names in my index. You couldn't find a person at Morgan

632
00:42:50,377 --> 00:42:54,837
Stanley. Even with the digital asset team they're hiring, that knows as much as I do about some of

633
00:42:54,837 --> 00:42:59,277
these names because I'm researching them. I'm doing writings on them. I'm doing it. So I do

634
00:42:59,277 --> 00:43:05,037
think AI has peaked in the growth of it, in the surprise of it, in the ability to monetize it

635
00:43:05,037 --> 00:43:07,777
because the competition is too extreme.

636
00:43:07,777 --> 00:43:09,337
I think crypto is on the other end.

637
00:43:09,337 --> 00:43:10,877
It's coming out of the dot-com bubble.

638
00:43:10,877 --> 00:43:13,397
And what changed those companies, the Mag7,

639
00:43:13,397 --> 00:43:16,197
and had them build to the level they are,

640
00:43:16,197 --> 00:43:18,077
is there was one event that occurred,

641
00:43:18,077 --> 00:43:20,337
which was the launch of the smartphone.

642
00:43:20,337 --> 00:43:23,617
And so to me, AI agents are the smartphone moment,

643
00:43:23,617 --> 00:43:25,037
the app store moment.

644
00:43:25,037 --> 00:43:27,097
They will allow the enthusiasm

645
00:43:27,097 --> 00:43:30,597
for the $900 trillion of incumbents to go,

646
00:43:30,597 --> 00:43:31,877
you know, there's something here.

647
00:43:31,877 --> 00:43:34,737
I really like this angle that crypto

648
00:43:34,737 --> 00:43:36,737
kind of went through its internet mode.

649
00:43:36,737 --> 00:43:38,637
We didn't know how to invest in the internet.

650
00:43:39,497 --> 00:43:42,097
Let's go find these L2s and go figure out

651
00:43:42,097 --> 00:43:42,997
which ones can make money.

652
00:43:42,997 --> 00:43:44,597
And I think Robinhood chain right now

653
00:43:44,597 --> 00:43:46,677
is kind of helping them zero in.

654
00:43:46,677 --> 00:43:49,877
And I can just tell you as someone who stands on the bridge

655
00:43:49,877 --> 00:43:51,177
in the middle of it where they're like,

656
00:43:51,177 --> 00:43:56,177
hey, Jordy, explain to me how tokenization fits in my world.

657
00:43:56,557 --> 00:43:58,677
And I'm getting that question now from,

658
00:43:58,677 --> 00:44:03,417
I would say the biggest players at the most highest level.

659
00:44:03,417 --> 00:44:06,957
So not their analysts, but the actual decision makers.

660
00:44:06,957 --> 00:44:10,477
And the reason that's important is they know me.

661
00:44:11,317 --> 00:44:16,197
Number two, that means before they even allow their analysts to bring to them, like you

662
00:44:16,197 --> 00:44:20,137
should look at Zcash or you should look at this, they're coming to me going, should I

663
00:44:20,137 --> 00:44:20,837
be looking at this?

664
00:44:20,957 --> 00:44:22,537
Give me the macro vision on this.

665
00:44:22,597 --> 00:44:24,637
Give me the bigger picture so I can go through it.

666
00:44:24,717 --> 00:44:29,537
And I'm getting those questions now, which says we're in the early stages of a Peter

667
00:44:29,537 --> 00:44:31,037
Lynch moment of people finding it.

668
00:44:31,037 --> 00:44:40,237
So if the massive growth in AI is over for now, you're not expecting this to pull back massively, but the major growth is gone for now.

669
00:44:40,717 --> 00:44:43,917
But you think that's still to come in Bitcoin sort of crypto world.

670
00:44:44,297 --> 00:44:53,197
If you were talking to, say, the CEO of Apple or Google, or maybe Google is a better example as it's like so dialed in on the AI stuff.

671
00:44:53,917 --> 00:44:54,877
They're sat on a lot of cash.

672
00:44:55,537 --> 00:44:57,717
Should they be looking to buy Bitcoin?

673
00:44:57,717 --> 00:45:05,157
going no they will keep spending their money into oblivion um because they have a lot of money

674
00:45:05,157 --> 00:45:11,697
sitting you know in orders that this is the most trapped obvious thing I've ever seen in my lifetime

675
00:45:11,697 --> 00:45:19,977
um Microsoft Amazon Google I mean the major important hyperscalers but even Oracle yeah

676
00:45:21,177 --> 00:45:26,817
they have massive orders for compute and again that's why I say there's no bubble

677
00:45:26,817 --> 00:45:30,977
demand for compute is greater than supply end of story and if people don't know that they just are

678
00:45:30,977 --> 00:45:35,457
not they're living in their own bubble yeah 100 it's definitely true i mean the prices don't go

679
00:45:35,457 --> 00:45:40,977
down every bare argument that's ever been made has been disproven just by the prices that exist i was

680
00:45:40,977 --> 00:45:44,097
just talking on the phone with someone who literally said the biggest problem we're having

681
00:45:44,097 --> 00:45:49,457
right now is we can't get enough compute online in the next two years yeah so it's like the window

682
00:45:49,457 --> 00:45:56,577
is out way past 28 at this point in terms of the demand side so i i think as we kind of you know

683
00:45:56,817 --> 00:46:02,197
move through this, Google has, I don't know, I think they're half a trillion dollars of back

684
00:46:02,197 --> 00:46:07,017
orders. They just don't have the compute. So they can't not spend the money. The question really

685
00:46:07,017 --> 00:46:13,217
comes, will they have a product outside of this boring product of supplying compute to open AI

686
00:46:13,217 --> 00:46:19,977
and Anthropic? I mean, they basically own a restaurant unless they can figure a way to

687
00:46:19,977 --> 00:46:26,397
monetize this. And what happened with Meta, Meta came out with Muse. It's a big hit.

688
00:46:26,397 --> 00:46:30,717
I've not used it yet. You're not allowed to use it in Australia. It's like, it's US only for now.

689
00:46:30,717 --> 00:46:35,817
Okay. I mean, I've used it. I've heard it's very good. Yeah. I've talked to you about it canceled

690
00:46:35,817 --> 00:46:41,037
or gave me the, I won't name the company, but the one I did a free trial to and pointed out,

691
00:46:41,097 --> 00:46:46,557
but it's done amazing things for me, including, and so people know, um, it does fraud alert for

692
00:46:46,557 --> 00:47:00,970
me Everyone worried about their bank account and stuff being connected to it And I like well I got protection of my bank account on multiple levels If you guys don have it like go in there and say hey if anyone takes money out for more than off a debit card let me know Cause I don use my debit card that much

693
00:47:01,110 --> 00:47:06,010
And that's really where a lot of the bots go in. And in particular, in your checking account,

694
00:47:06,050 --> 00:47:09,750
cause your savings account has more like, I've already looked all this stuff up. So I'm like,

695
00:47:09,870 --> 00:47:14,950
okay, here's my other check. Hey, um, I'm a big believer that if you don't want to die from

696
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:20,270
cancer you should know you have cancer day one and it's a very simple thing well the same thing

697
00:47:20,270 --> 00:47:26,130
goes with fraud they're gonna test it and i want to know and so i'll give my protection at the bank

698
00:47:26,130 --> 00:47:33,510
and then i'll have protection with muse and i already do that so muse is a a warning shot to

699
00:47:33,510 --> 00:47:41,190
apple siri hasn't they don't have it yet siri is dreadful it's unbelievable how about it is it

700
00:47:41,190 --> 00:47:47,270
alexa is too so they haven't figured it out google i mean i'm using muse on my gmail accounts

701
00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:51,510
so how come they haven't come out with microsoft and copilot they're saying they have their agents

702
00:47:51,510 --> 00:47:55,670
now open ai is going to have theirs and you know anthropic's going to have theirs so the problem

703
00:47:55,670 --> 00:48:01,750
is for all of these companies there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen already and the competition's

704
00:48:01,750 --> 00:48:07,430
going to be extreme the thing i don't think people realize with the mag 7 is they really are like

705
00:48:07,430 --> 00:48:12,870
seven different companies and almost there's a lot of rumors that they agreed a long time ago we're

706
00:48:12,870 --> 00:48:16,930
not going to go in your lane you don't go in our lane so when you break down what amazon is it's

707
00:48:16,930 --> 00:48:19,710
very different than what apple is it's very different than what google is and you go through

708
00:48:19,710 --> 00:48:24,130
like oh these mag seven they do seven different things now they're all competing for the exact

709
00:48:24,130 --> 00:48:29,550
same pie that's interesting so by definition they're going to be a feeding frenzy it's going

710
00:48:29,550 --> 00:48:33,270
to drive costs down so people don't think about these things that's why i don't worry like oh

711
00:48:33,270 --> 00:48:37,370
meta stock's going up i'm like yeah great and what happens when everyone else comes out with

712
00:48:37,370 --> 00:48:42,050
their version haven't you learned what happened with your fears on open source laws they'll all

713
00:48:42,050 --> 00:48:48,550
be feeding for zero costs because muse is free and so what happens then as they compete do you

714
00:48:48,550 --> 00:48:52,910
think the mag 7 becomes the mag 6 and then the mag 5 until we have the mag 1 it depends on how

715
00:48:52,910 --> 00:49:01,690
you you measure it do i think um here's the best way to say it um cable companies

716
00:49:01,690 --> 00:49:10,650
they're there their stocks suck yeah they become regulated commodities they don't grow anymore

717
00:49:10,650 --> 00:49:17,150
so what happens to a stock like at&t it's not like you've woken up at&t is never on the front

718
00:49:17,150 --> 00:49:22,270
page like there if you go into x and say what's the latest news on at&t there's no news and if

719
00:49:22,270 --> 00:49:28,130
there is it's about something bad or you know how to date space yeah their debt's gonna blow them up

720
00:49:28,130 --> 00:49:34,290
but nothing good so i think over time these companies just become like that i don't think

721
00:49:34,290 --> 00:49:38,310
they grow but this might be too extreme but is this almost like the end of capitalism then

722
00:49:38,310 --> 00:49:46,610
so it i i think i have written or said that somewhere that it's very difficult for the

723
00:49:46,610 --> 00:49:52,370
way capitalism exists the way people know it today but here's the thing i don't know what

724
00:49:52,370 --> 00:49:58,330
you call it if we go from the mag seven to the mag one billion and all that means is a

725
00:49:58,330 --> 00:50:03,650
redistribution through a channel of competition and capitalism at the end of the day is cap is

726
00:50:03,650 --> 00:50:08,950
competition the problem is i don't think it's been fair competition when it gets back to

727
00:50:08,950 --> 00:50:15,010
it costs me nothing to borrow money and i get to hire the best talent because i can pay the most

728
00:50:15,010 --> 00:50:19,810
money so as you get a moat around your business it's very hard for there to be competitors so

729
00:50:19,810 --> 00:50:25,030
someone might have a better idea. I mean, go back to the mag seven. What did they do when there was

730
00:50:25,030 --> 00:50:30,170
a competitor? They bought Instagram. What I could name a hundred little companies that were growing

731
00:50:30,170 --> 00:50:35,010
rapidly that they just gobbled up. So I think that's what capitalism really was, was you get

732
00:50:35,010 --> 00:50:40,110
big enough. And before someone can compete, you buy them, you buy them. And it's kind of rigged

733
00:50:40,110 --> 00:50:44,570
because the VC needs to be monetized and go through it. I mean, I just heard on the all in

734
00:50:44,570 --> 00:50:52,010
podcast that they were describing um anthropic and like the the founders own very little of the

735
00:50:52,010 --> 00:50:57,970
company which is an amazing thing that here's a company that's not that old and it's trillions

736
00:50:57,970 --> 00:51:03,030
of dollars and i think dario owns two percent of it yeah that's crazy so again you think about a

737
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:08,350
founder who creates a business that gets to this level that's not even that old and he owns two

738
00:51:08,350 --> 00:51:13,070
percent of it so i think we're kind of entering this weird world why does he own two percent

739
00:51:13,070 --> 00:51:19,490
And I think when you go through the difference of that with like Zuck with Facebook and you

740
00:51:19,490 --> 00:51:24,690
realize, well, it's really hard with hardware companies that have to spend tons of money

741
00:51:24,690 --> 00:51:26,070
because they have to raise the money.

742
00:51:26,190 --> 00:51:28,470
They have to give up ownership to be able to raise the money.

743
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:33,130
In the world that I'm seeing, the founders are going to own 80, 90, 100% of their business

744
00:51:33,130 --> 00:51:35,150
because they don't need employees and they don't need to borrow money.

745
00:51:35,190 --> 00:51:36,190
And those are the two things.

746
00:51:36,190 --> 00:51:40,310
If you need capital and you need employees, you have to give up a lot of your money.

747
00:51:40,410 --> 00:51:41,890
But with AI, you don't need either.

748
00:51:41,890 --> 00:51:46,890
And so I might be crazy, I might be the only person

749
00:51:47,090 --> 00:51:48,990
that believes this, but I really do think

750
00:51:48,990 --> 00:51:51,890
that this is more about we invest in growth

751
00:51:51,890 --> 00:51:55,030
and if these companies can't grow their earnings fast enough,

752
00:51:55,030 --> 00:51:56,250
their multiples compress.

753
00:51:56,250 --> 00:51:58,290
One of the things about me that people that know

754
00:51:58,290 --> 00:52:12,283
in my weekly it all data driven So I try to look at what the market is saying and it saying to me triple C spreads are widening out in the US Oh that means a recession is coming Well no because high

755
00:52:12,283 --> 00:52:18,083
yield is not budging and investment grade is not budging. The mag seven CDS is widening out and all

756
00:52:18,083 --> 00:52:23,963
these scary things. Okay. But their equities at all time highs, their equity is lower in the cap

757
00:52:23,963 --> 00:52:28,183
structure than their debt guys. Like, come on, let's be, the market's telling you something.

758
00:52:28,183 --> 00:52:30,483
It's not telling you there's a problem with their borrowing.

759
00:52:31,023 --> 00:52:34,703
It's saying that this is a very concentrated amount of borrowing.

760
00:52:34,903 --> 00:52:38,963
And if you believe the AI trade is going to be a bubble, what better thing than to buy CDS on this?

761
00:52:39,223 --> 00:52:46,343
Plus, for people that believe that this is just a repeat of the big short, everyone made a ton of money doing this type of trade on the big shorts.

762
00:52:46,443 --> 00:52:48,203
Let's go buy CDS on all these companies.

763
00:52:48,203 --> 00:52:54,603
I just think the market has been telling you by the multiple compression and specifically NVIDIA.

764
00:52:54,603 --> 00:53:02,003
nvidia's earnings have blown away all estimates and they literally just did something we've never

765
00:53:02,003 --> 00:53:07,863
seen before in terms of rating guidance for next year on their revenues way above the street i mean

766
00:53:07,863 --> 00:53:12,223
the street was expecting 40 top line revenue growth and they said it was going to be 70 for

767
00:53:12,223 --> 00:53:18,243
a company to say that even if they it's never happened and the reason i say it's never happened

768
00:53:18,243 --> 00:53:22,783
you would never say a year out you have that much certainty and visibility to say it's going to be

769
00:53:22,783 --> 00:53:29,983
way above where the street is and the stock was unchanged four days later now their pe has

770
00:53:29,983 --> 00:53:38,623
collapsed micron's pe is low why is that happening and i believe it's because out five years we have

771
00:53:38,623 --> 00:53:43,423
no certainty whatsoever yeah and at the end of the day the value of a fiat asset to get back to your

772
00:53:43,423 --> 00:53:48,783
your scarcity side, it's about the future discounted cash flows.

773
00:53:50,103 --> 00:53:54,463
And that in it, a PE to me gets back to Bitcoin.

774
00:53:54,603 --> 00:53:57,923
It's like, how do you convert this into a PE?

775
00:53:58,823 --> 00:54:04,683
Well, maybe the PE is the most vulnerable thing because it means you have to extrapolate

776
00:54:04,683 --> 00:54:09,583
this moat such a far time out that if you cut off five years from now and you go, you

777
00:54:09,583 --> 00:54:09,803
know what?

778
00:54:09,803 --> 00:54:14,163
I'm going to place a very low probability this company will still be winning in five years.

779
00:54:14,683 --> 00:54:16,523
Well, then the PE goes down to single digits.

780
00:54:16,843 --> 00:54:20,163
And the reason I know that is because that's where the stock market was in 1980

781
00:54:20,163 --> 00:54:24,963
before the personal computer started to get the rise in PEs in the US.

782
00:54:25,083 --> 00:54:27,463
Now it was coming out of the inflation era back then,

783
00:54:27,483 --> 00:54:29,903
but there was also an uncertainty over rates were going to be.

784
00:54:30,203 --> 00:54:32,403
We kind of have the same thing now with rates.

785
00:54:32,483 --> 00:54:33,643
We don't know where rates are going to be.

786
00:54:33,683 --> 00:54:34,983
And as I'm going to show this week,

787
00:54:35,363 --> 00:54:37,823
for everyone worried about the bond market and what it means,

788
00:54:37,823 --> 00:54:40,543
It's like, guys, the rates don't matter anymore.

789
00:54:41,023 --> 00:54:43,303
Like, I don't know how to get this across to people.

790
00:54:43,563 --> 00:54:47,323
You guys are getting scared about something that I know doesn't matter.

791
00:54:47,403 --> 00:54:48,683
And it's another one of these market tells.

792
00:54:48,843 --> 00:54:49,743
Same thing with oil.

793
00:54:50,043 --> 00:54:50,803
It doesn't matter.

794
00:54:51,083 --> 00:54:53,323
You say so many things that have just a thousand questions on.

795
00:54:53,663 --> 00:54:56,823
But just before we get on to rates, because I do want to ask you about that.

796
00:54:57,063 --> 00:54:59,023
With the AI trade, the PE is dropping.

797
00:54:59,263 --> 00:55:03,383
Is that also partly a self-fulfilling prophecy where if enough people think it's a bubble,

798
00:55:03,383 --> 00:55:07,203
they start treating it like a bubble and therefore the stocks don't grow or shrink?

799
00:55:07,823 --> 00:55:08,823
comparatively.

800
00:55:08,823 --> 00:55:15,083
I've never seen a more hated bull market around the greatest innovation technology

801
00:55:15,083 --> 00:55:16,983
that the world has ever seen.

802
00:55:16,983 --> 00:55:23,323
When Cisco was trading at 100 PE and I moved back from Brazil, I was watching very educated

803
00:55:23,323 --> 00:55:26,483
Ivy League people try to explain to me how it was justified.

804
00:55:26,483 --> 00:55:32,203
And I remember coming back being like, so I leave Brazil, which is in a depression,

805
00:55:32,203 --> 00:55:34,823
and you guys bring me back here because I was successful down there.

806
00:55:34,823 --> 00:55:39,183
So now the capitalist side is we need Jordy to come back here and run the S&P options book.

807
00:55:40,403 --> 00:55:43,143
And then I get to see people who I still talk to today.

808
00:55:43,183 --> 00:55:46,943
I'm like, remember when you were drunk on pets.com and all this stuff that you own?

809
00:55:46,943 --> 00:55:49,063
Yeah, that was a crazy time.

810
00:55:49,223 --> 00:55:53,423
I was like, right now in the stock market, we have none of that.

811
00:55:54,023 --> 00:55:54,783
Like none of that.

812
00:55:55,003 --> 00:55:56,323
Micron's trading at a four P.

813
00:55:56,423 --> 00:56:02,163
I mean, if you thought, if you do the numbers on Micron and if someone said to me, so what's

814
00:56:02,163 --> 00:56:03,003
the argument for memory?

815
00:56:03,063 --> 00:56:04,163
I'm like, well, let's see.

816
00:56:04,163 --> 00:56:07,063
we're not even in the first inning of compute demand.

817
00:56:07,663 --> 00:56:11,023
We just started the agentic revolution in January.

818
00:56:12,303 --> 00:56:17,903
Opus 4.6 and OpenClaw were kind of the key points

819
00:56:17,903 --> 00:56:19,083
for the agentic world.

820
00:56:19,343 --> 00:56:21,843
And coding agents started enterprise adoption.

821
00:56:22,183 --> 00:56:24,263
But enterprise adoption is in the first inning.

822
00:56:24,943 --> 00:56:27,003
Consumer agents, Muse just started.

823
00:56:27,003 --> 00:56:30,343
So it's like those two alone are massive,

824
00:56:30,603 --> 00:56:31,603
but let's take it further.

825
00:56:31,603 --> 00:56:37,743
full self-driving doesn't happen yet it's gonna happen and you need a hell of a lot more compute

826
00:56:37,743 --> 00:56:42,763
for doing visual and bringing that in too and then after that you have humanoids you still have

827
00:56:42,763 --> 00:56:49,063
going to space like this is a never-ending demand for compute so theoretically micron should be

828
00:56:49,063 --> 00:56:54,443
trading extrapolating the next 10 years into their multiple it should be trading at 40 times this

829
00:56:54,443 --> 00:56:59,783
year's earnings but it's not and the reason is because the market is smarter than any individual

830
00:56:59,783 --> 00:57:02,723
And we saw that with the SaaSpocalypse

831
00:57:02,723 --> 00:57:03,823
in the beginning part of the year.

832
00:57:03,823 --> 00:57:05,483
So again, you look to the market,

833
00:57:05,483 --> 00:57:08,623
and I believe that when you take 8 billion people,

834
00:57:08,623 --> 00:57:23,017
including if only 2 of people above the age of 55 are using AI the 2 that are using it they engineers they but at 55 they probably have a lot of money Mark Andreessen has a lot of money

835
00:57:23,077 --> 00:57:24,437
Like if I go through the list of people

836
00:57:24,437 --> 00:57:26,177
that have a lot of money that are using it

837
00:57:26,177 --> 00:57:27,017
and understand it,

838
00:57:28,017 --> 00:57:29,317
they're saying the same thing I am

839
00:57:29,317 --> 00:57:31,277
because where am I getting my stuff from?

840
00:57:31,697 --> 00:57:32,317
Those people.

841
00:57:32,957 --> 00:57:34,657
Like I'm not the first person to say

842
00:57:34,657 --> 00:57:36,477
the valuation of these companies is coming down

843
00:57:36,477 --> 00:57:38,577
because terminal value has been eliminated.

844
00:57:38,917 --> 00:57:41,197
But if you only listen to the bubbles here,

845
00:57:41,197 --> 00:57:46,097
it's a lazy way for people to go oh thank god there's a bubble so that way i can just wait it

846
00:57:46,097 --> 00:57:51,897
out that's what a bubble means to me it's a lazy way of saying i don't have to use ai i don't have

847
00:57:51,897 --> 00:57:56,337
to buy any ai companies it doesn't really matter because i can just sit this one out it's i mean

848
00:57:56,337 --> 00:58:01,657
it's both the most hated um sort of bull market but also just the most hated technological

849
00:58:01,657 --> 00:58:07,537
revolution like the it's become so politically polarized and pub key where we're recording above

850
00:58:07,537 --> 00:58:13,937
right now hosted a event in dc last week which was like they had a load of um ai infrastructure

851
00:58:13,937 --> 00:58:18,617
content so they were talking to data centers all that kind of thing and in the wake of that

852
00:58:18,617 --> 00:58:25,077
they've had an absolute ton of one star reviews on their on their bar because they had those

853
00:58:25,077 --> 00:58:30,197
conversations within the bar like it's insane how much people hate the data centers yeah and

854
00:58:30,197 --> 00:58:33,957
like don't get me wrong i don't necessarily want to live right next to a data center but

855
00:58:33,957 --> 00:58:40,877
like the most of the people that hate it do not live next to a data center correct it's it's very

856
00:58:40,877 --> 00:58:45,837
interesting so i want to go back to rates you said rates don't matter why do rates not matter anymore

857
00:58:45,837 --> 00:58:50,337
because the economy has changed dramatically since the iphone came into existence so um

858
00:58:50,337 --> 00:58:57,077
and i'll just use i could use australia as well but it's not going to be the same as as the u.s

859
00:58:57,077 --> 00:59:03,597
let's just use the u.s um first of all corporate balance sheets are pristine on the aggregate

860
00:59:03,597 --> 00:59:09,417
it's lunacy to me that people worry about the debt of like Microsoft and Google and all this

861
00:59:09,417 --> 00:59:15,697
stuff like these companies are worth so much money that go back to your debt to equity class like it

862
00:59:15,697 --> 00:59:20,757
there's no risk of default or anything with them borrowing a total of two trillion dollars between

863
00:59:20,757 --> 00:59:25,637
them when they're worth 20 30 trillion dollars in the aggregate so there's that the cash and

864
00:59:25,637 --> 00:59:31,677
the balance sheet is still enormous and marketable securities so on a risk analysis the corporate

865
00:59:31,677 --> 00:59:36,117
balance sheets today relative to the great financial crisis completely different i use

866
00:59:36,117 --> 00:59:39,277
great financial crisis as the brammer because that's when the iphone came out yeah so when the

867
00:59:39,277 --> 00:59:43,317
iphone came out the companies that grew the mag 7 they took no debt so when you see these scary

868
00:59:43,317 --> 00:59:47,557
charts with these histograms and it's like look at the debt it's up here and it's coming from here

869
00:59:47,557 --> 00:59:54,537
i'm like the real story is the prior 10 years they took no debt how do you grow from a trillion

870
00:59:54,537 --> 01:00:00,157
to 15 trillion amongst those companies and take no debt yeah like it never happened before in

871
01:00:00,157 --> 01:00:03,717
mankind and you guys leave it. So when you see this stuff going up, okay, that's going to kill

872
01:00:03,717 --> 01:00:07,237
their growth going forward. I'm with you guys. Like it's not going to blow the company up. So

873
01:00:07,237 --> 01:00:11,677
rates don't matter from a corporate side, from a household side, household net worth in the United

874
01:00:11,677 --> 01:00:17,277
States of America is $195 trillion. Okay. Let me say that again, 195 trillion. When you guys hear

875
01:00:17,277 --> 01:00:25,237
the big scary government debt number, it's 40 trillion, 120% of GDP. You know, when Japan's

876
01:00:25,237 --> 01:00:30,697
debt was 120 percent of gdp that was in 2000 that was a long time ago it was a quarter of a century

877
01:00:30,697 --> 01:00:35,537
quarter of a century ago they haven't blown up they're still playing the party game of we don't

878
01:00:35,537 --> 01:00:39,477
need to pay our debt off because we just buy it back and go through it so is the u.s have that

879
01:00:39,477 --> 01:00:43,437
luxury yet no but they'll get there they'll just keep buying back the debt move everything into

880
01:00:43,437 --> 01:00:47,017
short-term yields and it'll just become a sieve just like everything that went on during the great

881
01:00:47,017 --> 01:00:54,217
financial crisis but betting against the government is bad mistake um rates for housing the majority

882
01:00:54,217 --> 01:00:56,657
40% of houses in the U.S. completely paid off.

883
01:00:57,697 --> 01:01:01,937
The average mortgage rate on a house is sub 4%.

884
01:01:01,937 --> 01:01:05,237
So as rates go higher, these are fixed rate mortgages.

885
01:01:05,417 --> 01:01:07,897
And I'm pretty sure Australia does not have a big fixed rate.

886
01:01:08,037 --> 01:01:08,577
We don't have a luxury of that.

887
01:01:08,617 --> 01:01:08,757
Yeah.

888
01:01:08,877 --> 01:01:11,817
But in the U.S., they're locked in at fixed rate mortgages.

889
01:01:12,197 --> 01:01:13,697
So they're not getting worse.

890
01:01:14,137 --> 01:01:18,157
The wealthy people who don't have mortgages and have lots of cash,

891
01:01:18,157 --> 01:01:21,777
if rates are going higher, the government is giving more money into the system.

892
01:01:21,777 --> 01:01:28,377
this is not the case from before and i can keep going on and on but when you're left with is if

893
01:01:28,377 --> 01:01:33,957
the household balance sheets are good the private sector as a whole are because corporations balance

894
01:01:33,957 --> 01:01:39,037
sheets are good the only people who get hurt from rates going higher are arguably the places that

895
01:01:39,037 --> 01:01:44,557
should go out of business house sales are at zero in the u.s i mean not literally zero but they're at

896
01:01:44,557 --> 01:01:47,977
the lowest level when you do existing home sales they're at the same level they were during the

897
01:01:47,977 --> 01:01:53,497
great financial crisis, the worst of it. So there is no element of this that has the same impact

898
01:01:53,497 --> 01:01:58,857
that it used to have in the past. And that's why as rates go higher, is there an element that knocks

899
01:01:58,857 --> 01:02:05,497
out small businesses? Yeah. But to be honest, it gets back to the point of the stubbornness that a

900
01:02:05,497 --> 01:02:10,797
lot of businesses have. Recessions are supposed to be cleansing events to get rid of the weak and

901
01:02:10,797 --> 01:02:15,577
allow the strong to get in. And sometimes for individuals that it was their dream to have a

902
01:02:15,577 --> 01:02:17,917
a little hardware store or a little diner,

903
01:02:17,917 --> 01:02:20,417
they might be better off with it going out of business

904
01:02:20,417 --> 01:02:22,917
because they're sitting there and watching their,

905
01:02:22,917 --> 01:02:25,377
I'm making $10,000 and now I'm only making eight.

906
01:02:25,377 --> 01:02:26,797
I'm going to have to leave and move anyway

907
01:02:26,797 --> 01:02:28,297
because the rent's going up.

908
01:02:28,297 --> 01:02:29,977
I just think the rate situation,

909
01:02:29,982 --> 01:02:31,522
It's not going to take the economy down.

910
01:02:31,622 --> 01:02:34,522
It's not as sensitive as it was before 2008.

911
01:02:34,702 --> 01:02:37,322
And there's a variety of other things that go through.

912
01:02:37,322 --> 01:02:43,642
But if it does get to the point, like, obviously, the person it matters to is the government as they're rolling their debt over at higher and higher rates.

913
01:02:43,862 --> 01:02:49,442
And if it gets to the point where they're having to buy back that debt themselves, like that then affects everyone through debasement.

914
01:02:50,722 --> 01:02:57,082
Well, when you say debasement, not if all they're doing is moving the maturities closer and closer in.

915
01:02:57,082 --> 01:03:00,722
and it doesn't really increase any more dramatically than it was.

916
01:03:00,822 --> 01:03:02,662
But if they have to start buying back the bonds like Japan.

917
01:03:03,982 --> 01:03:06,882
Again, as you go through this and you figure out

918
01:03:06,882 --> 01:03:09,462
the total sum of the assets is $900 trillion.

919
01:03:10,282 --> 01:03:13,402
So they're not having any trouble on this now

920
01:03:13,402 --> 01:03:15,522
because the rates haven't gone up that much.

921
01:03:15,722 --> 01:03:19,482
So far, we've done 100 basis point move in a year.

922
01:03:20,082 --> 01:03:22,942
We have this thing in the US that we pay attention to

923
01:03:22,942 --> 01:03:24,922
for good reason.

924
01:03:25,662 --> 01:03:26,522
Actually, two things.

925
01:03:26,522 --> 01:03:35,362
So there's the LEI, which is the leading economic indicator, which was negative for three years from 2022 to just turn.

926
01:03:35,822 --> 01:03:36,742
It's not positive yet.

927
01:03:36,782 --> 01:03:38,482
I think it's about to go positive above zero.

928
01:03:38,922 --> 01:03:43,262
We've never not had a recession without that going below zero.

929
01:03:43,422 --> 01:03:44,262
And yet we've been below.

930
01:03:44,342 --> 01:03:45,522
We had an inverted yield curve.

931
01:03:45,642 --> 01:03:47,922
We didn't get a recession magically enough.

932
01:03:48,162 --> 01:03:51,302
We took rates from zero to 5% didn't get a recession.

933
01:03:52,562 --> 01:03:56,102
We have the financial conditions index.

934
01:03:56,522 --> 01:04:03,862
rates have gone up 100 basis points financial conditions have gotten easier so we're kind of

935
01:04:03,862 --> 01:04:08,222
in an environment again where if people want to believe that there'll be more printing then we'll

936
01:04:08,222 --> 01:04:12,602
see it through money supply but the reality is we've got a fiscal deficit of six percent

937
01:04:12,602 --> 01:04:18,702
which means there's a transfer from the government who's borrowing money and basically again giving

938
01:04:18,702 --> 01:04:23,882
it back out so we're already in the debasement thing we've been in it before it's just a call of

939
01:04:23,882 --> 01:04:28,922
liquefaction transfer payments continue to grow we keep giving money out i don't think that's going

940
01:04:28,922 --> 01:04:34,602
to last forever my own personal view because i think entitlements are going to change in the

941
01:04:34,602 --> 01:04:40,282
coming years because of ai but you know that's a view that's a little out there for people you say

942
01:04:40,282 --> 01:04:44,762
too many interesting things i need to now ask you about entitlements because when you say that's

943
01:04:44,762 --> 01:04:49,882
going to change are they going to be forced to change or why would ai change them um so i do

944
01:04:49,882 --> 01:04:55,022
believe that when it comes to people's health, longevity is going to go through its exponential

945
01:04:55,022 --> 01:04:59,602
as well. Absolutely. So if you believe in that, then you have to go through the entitlements and

946
01:04:59,602 --> 01:05:06,082
separate the social security side and then the other side, Medicare, Medicaid, and what's going

947
01:05:06,082 --> 01:05:12,582
on. And the majority of health expenditures come in the final five days of your life.

948
01:05:12,582 --> 01:05:21,942
if nobody dies from disease and they die from old age which is a far better way to die and so let's

949
01:05:21,942 --> 01:05:27,802
assume you know the current people above their 70 because of how old they are they don't get another

950
01:05:27,802 --> 01:05:34,262
70 years they get an extra 10 years well that's worth a lot of money but more importantly if they

951
01:05:34,262 --> 01:05:41,582
die from just old age and that's it well that's a pretty great way to go but the cost side and the

952
01:05:41,582 --> 01:05:46,002
burden on everyone else will go down dramatically. And I do believe that is going to happen. When

953
01:05:46,002 --> 01:05:50,322
humanoids come and let's say a decade from now, they're able to live in the home and go through

954
01:05:50,322 --> 01:05:54,722
this. When you go through where the entitlements start to become a major issue, you're talking in

955
01:05:54,722 --> 01:06:01,302
2032 and going beyond. So social security is a harder one for people to deal with, but the wealth

956
01:06:01,302 --> 01:06:06,662
of the country is enormous. And I do believe that in the next five years, people are underestimating

957
01:06:06,662 --> 01:06:11,342
the tax side that's going to go up dramatically. And this is not something to scare people with.

958
01:06:11,582 --> 01:06:15,102
if abundance actually happens,

959
01:06:15,102 --> 01:06:17,522
people have to start thinking about what will go on.

960
01:06:17,522 --> 01:06:20,562
A company like Anthropic has, I think,

961
01:06:20,562 --> 01:06:23,862
like 5,000 employees and they're worth

962
01:06:25,202 --> 01:06:26,762
two, three trillion dollars.

963
01:06:26,762 --> 01:06:27,762
Okay, I wanna say that again.

964
01:06:27,762 --> 01:06:31,522
5,000 employees, the company's not even,

965
01:06:31,522 --> 01:06:32,962
I don't even know when they were incorporated,

966
01:06:32,962 --> 01:06:34,902
but it can't be more than six years ago.

967
01:06:36,042 --> 01:06:38,182
And their revenue per employee,

968
01:06:38,182 --> 01:06:40,662
like when you do the numbers,

969
01:06:40,662 --> 01:06:42,302
if that's what their value is,

970
01:06:42,302 --> 01:06:58,839
that means they building in that next year which is I mean there people that have said publicly they be at a trillion dollars of revenue next year which I don believe in but let assume it 300 billion Okay Well that a lot of revenues And if they don have a lot of employees the question is

971
01:06:58,839 --> 01:07:03,779
shouldn't we be taxing them at some huge rate for their AI agents? And shouldn't there be

972
01:07:03,779 --> 01:07:07,459
taxation because the government's not receiving it from the individuals.

973
01:07:07,739 --> 01:07:11,999
So when the humanoids come and all this stuff, corporations will start paying taxes because

974
01:07:11,999 --> 01:07:16,879
labor has suffered relative to capital. It's almost like a form of UBI. Exactly. But it's

975
01:07:16,879 --> 01:07:21,659
happening through taxing the robots, which I believe will happen. And it's probably a better

976
01:07:21,659 --> 01:07:25,659
outcome. It's a better outcome. And I think it will only happen. And I think that's something

977
01:07:25,659 --> 01:07:31,479
that both parties could agree on. Yeah. Because I do believe that the one place that the merge

978
01:07:31,479 --> 01:07:37,779
has happened, Donald Trump won on trying to help the masses. He believed tariffs were good for

979
01:07:37,779 --> 01:07:43,079
regenerating the, you know, the, the Midwest and the people that have been left out at the expense

980
01:07:43,079 --> 01:07:47,179
of the coastline. Well, I think in the democratic party, even though they win on the coastline,

981
01:07:47,179 --> 01:07:54,359
you can't run without kind of going towards people that are being impacted. And I think they

982
01:07:54,359 --> 01:07:58,459
want to tax people that have most of the money. Now, maybe it won't be the individuals because

983
01:07:58,459 --> 01:08:02,579
that becomes a state thing and people run from different States. But I think for corporations,

984
01:08:02,579 --> 01:08:09,899
it's a little bit easier if the data center thing no one's gonna like if their pay's been disrupted

985
01:08:09,899 --> 01:08:16,919
by ai agents and robots and that's what the next five years is agents have not replaced people at

986
01:08:16,919 --> 01:08:22,539
work what has happened is they have not hired people yeah and then the corporate ladder has

987
01:08:22,539 --> 01:08:28,159
stopped so you can't go up any further and the costs haven't changed inside the city so i think

988
01:08:28,159 --> 01:08:34,279
this is what builds the anger is humans do much better with hope and if hope has been taken away

989
01:08:34,279 --> 01:08:38,179
which is what the corporate ladder and getting more money in the future is then i think someone

990
01:08:38,179 --> 01:08:44,839
is to blame data centers are to blame potentially i think robots and agents will be taxed that makes

991
01:08:44,839 --> 01:08:48,719
sense to me and it's also like without that you're going to get huge social disruption i think the

992
01:08:48,719 --> 01:08:53,959
companies will be happy to pay it i i do too um the and that's another reason why at the end of the

993
01:08:53,959 --> 01:08:58,479
day the government involvement the forcing of it i just think the growth for these companies the

994
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:02,099
multiple you have to the more the government gets involved in your business i don't think they're

995
01:09:02,099 --> 01:09:05,459
getting involved in businesses that are making two million dollars no i think they're getting

996
01:09:05,459 --> 01:09:10,139
involved in businesses that are making trillions of dollars yeah and so if that's the case that is

997
01:09:10,139 --> 01:09:15,899
another redistribution that everyone would vote for because nobody i mean when you get to a

998
01:09:15,899 --> 01:09:19,199
corporation it's like how many people actually make most of the money it's very concentrated

999
01:09:19,199 --> 01:09:24,559
even inside a corporation so it's it's very challenging and the threat to the ai data center

1000
01:09:24,559 --> 01:09:28,799
companies as an example is it's you pay the tax that's essentially like ubi or you get people

1001
01:09:28,799 --> 01:09:34,319
throwing molotov cocktails at your data centers you know it's an easy choice um i have two more

1002
01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:40,159
of the big questions i want to ask you first of all if this happens we have huge deflationary

1003
01:09:40,159 --> 01:09:46,079
effects from ai there's huge disruption in the stock market what happens to the sort of the debt

1004
01:09:46,079 --> 01:09:53,119
based fiat system that we live in today? Nothing as long as it's PEs collapsing. So again,

1005
01:09:53,119 --> 01:10:00,759
if the stock prices don't go down fast, the problem with deflation every time I get asked it,

1006
01:10:01,259 --> 01:10:06,679
the depression was not about prices going down. It was about them going down in a short amount of

1007
01:10:06,679 --> 01:10:14,299
time. If prices in public stocks go down, that would matter because that's the only place people

1008
01:10:14,299 --> 01:10:21,699
can invest. If tokenization happens and your money gets redistributed, then those assets deflate while

1009
01:10:21,699 --> 01:10:27,159
the other ones go up. This is the whole beauty of crypto. Crypto is not big enough now to offset it,

1010
01:10:27,199 --> 01:10:31,839
but over the course of a decade, that's how things change. So the best way to think about it is

1011
01:10:31,839 --> 01:10:37,819
we have a bear market in the US market right now. We have a lot of companies trading at 52-week

1012
01:10:37,819 --> 01:10:41,499
lows. We have a lot of companies that are unchanged over the course of the last decade.

1013
01:10:41,499 --> 01:10:49,099
down why is that well because they're in a bear market the problem i don't think people understand

1014
01:10:49,099 --> 01:10:55,399
is that's not causing any problems because the overall situation's better that's what's going

1015
01:10:55,399 --> 01:11:01,019
to happen if the total sum of assets doesn't collapse and the only reason it collapses

1016
01:11:01,019 --> 01:11:13,376
is because of the synchronization of debt which doesn exist anymore that why the rate thing doesn matter anymore It used to be if the dominoes of the private sector having so much debt I mean why did the

1017
01:11:13,376 --> 01:11:19,416
great financial crisis happen? Okay. People were speculating on housing. Banks were speculating

1018
01:11:19,416 --> 01:11:23,556
on housing and corporations were speculating on, they were all speculating on housing.

1019
01:11:24,216 --> 01:11:29,896
Now nobody's speculating with debt anymore. It's just not happening. Private credit is not a

1020
01:11:29,896 --> 01:11:35,676
problem. Like the BDCs are trading at the correct level. The people are trapped. It's not the debt

1021
01:11:35,676 --> 01:11:39,556
that's a problem. It's the liquidity that's a problem. And the companies have rules. We like

1022
01:11:39,556 --> 01:11:44,536
Blackstone's not going to give them their money back because this is the rule. You signed up for

1023
01:11:44,536 --> 01:11:49,236
this. They got the money to give them back. That's why they were like, here's 500. You know, they

1024
01:11:49,236 --> 01:11:53,376
were writing checks to people. Now they're like, how many outflows we got? Nah, screw them. It's

1025
01:11:53,376 --> 01:11:58,736
fine. It doesn't really matter. So I'm not worried about the collapse in any way. I think this is

1026
01:11:58,736 --> 01:12:05,736
going to be a deflationary in certain situations, which has happened. Actually, the whole world is

1027
01:12:05,736 --> 01:12:13,216
that it happened since the great financial crisis until, you know, at the end of 2023, 2022.

1028
01:12:14,996 --> 01:12:19,516
Every part of the world was basically unchanged since 2007, except for the United States of

1029
01:12:19,516 --> 01:12:25,316
America. That's how it became 73, 74% of MSCI world. So if people don't realize what happened,

1030
01:12:25,316 --> 01:12:28,856
You were in a living example of what's going to happen.

1031
01:12:29,416 --> 01:12:35,556
If crypto goes up, but nothing else goes up much, there's a rebalancing going on.

1032
01:12:35,916 --> 01:12:38,316
And that can happen in a very positive way.

1033
01:12:38,396 --> 01:12:39,676
And I think that's what's going to happen.

1034
01:12:40,276 --> 01:12:40,336
Okay.

1035
01:12:40,456 --> 01:12:41,536
And then last question.

1036
01:12:42,796 --> 01:12:48,396
You described how Bitcoin sort of crypto is going to benefit massively from this agentic

1037
01:12:48,396 --> 01:12:48,756
economy.

1038
01:12:49,296 --> 01:12:51,096
Can we take crypto out for a second?

1039
01:12:51,216 --> 01:12:53,616
Because I think I understand that part with stable coins.

1040
01:12:53,616 --> 01:12:55,416
What role will Bitcoin play?

1041
01:12:56,776 --> 01:12:59,516
So Bitcoin to me is the end result of,

1042
01:13:00,596 --> 01:13:02,596
and I guess the best way to do this

1043
01:13:02,596 --> 01:13:04,236
is to take people on a little bit of a journey.

1044
01:13:04,676 --> 01:13:07,556
So to make sure people understand,

1045
01:13:07,716 --> 01:13:09,276
they've heard the gold standard,

1046
01:13:09,896 --> 01:13:14,236
and I'm sure the sophistication level of your audience,

1047
01:13:14,676 --> 01:13:17,276
most of them must know that effectively

1048
01:13:17,276 --> 01:13:19,376
we eventually got off the gold standard,

1049
01:13:19,556 --> 01:13:21,836
and the Great Depression was one of the major reasons.

1050
01:13:21,836 --> 01:13:29,576
so when we went global and countries were figuring out how to trust each other gold became the

1051
01:13:29,576 --> 01:13:33,796
necessary thing to i trust you you trust me and we've got gold backing this up so then we go into

1052
01:13:33,796 --> 01:13:37,096
this new system where it's kind of free for all we're off the gold standard and everyone's just

1053
01:13:37,096 --> 01:13:41,636
like we have this printing press and we learned in the great depression that the worst thing is if

1054
01:13:41,636 --> 01:13:47,156
you if your hands are tied we don't want that because then when everyone tries to sell at the

1055
01:13:47,156 --> 01:13:52,076
same time and the world is interconnected it's it's a fucking problem now with the great financial

1056
01:13:52,076 --> 01:13:55,796
crisis we just printed money and we had this helicopter thing we're like we'll shoot it out

1057
01:13:55,796 --> 01:14:01,236
and they kind of tried it they didn't really try it well there were still votes it's a tarp vote

1058
01:14:01,236 --> 01:14:06,436
it took it was a very messy thing but then covid happened and everyone around the globe went

1059
01:14:06,436 --> 01:14:11,676
let's just print from all directions and that's what happened and so we learned that we have that

1060
01:14:11,676 --> 01:14:16,356
the reason bitcoin is important is because it gets us back to the point of we definitely need a gold

1061
01:14:16,356 --> 01:14:22,316
standard in a world where we don't have to worry about that scenario because at some point to

1062
01:14:22,316 --> 01:14:26,956
redistribute things, there has to be a standard and Bitcoin is the standard. There would be no

1063
01:14:26,956 --> 01:14:31,396
crypto except for the Bitcoin white paper. The Bitcoin white paper got it. So I've always said

1064
01:14:31,396 --> 01:14:36,676
that Bitcoin is one of the things that is the most important thing that we all have to deal with in

1065
01:14:36,676 --> 01:14:42,816
life. There are only three motes that I know of. Gold has been accepted by human beings. It has

1066
01:14:42,816 --> 01:14:49,936
been accepted as the store of value it's carried on for thousands of years at some point someone

1067
01:14:49,936 --> 01:14:56,776
said not seashells this one's the one yeah religion survives it doesn't matter how much information

1068
01:14:56,776 --> 01:15:01,816
i made a joke that i'm like kids still believe in santa claus but they have an iphone like it's a

1069
01:15:01,816 --> 01:15:06,256
it's a beautiful thing that you can have religion last for all this time and bitcoin is the third

1070
01:15:06,256 --> 01:15:12,196
one it's been chosen it's a belief now it's a belief that it is the digital asset store of value

1071
01:15:12,196 --> 01:15:14,436
So when you have a system that operates,

1072
01:15:14,436 --> 01:15:17,796
you need something that is the bank,

1073
01:15:17,796 --> 01:15:20,436
that is the trust for it to function.

1074
01:15:20,436 --> 01:15:22,016
And so I believe Bitcoin is that.

1075
01:15:22,016 --> 01:15:33,733
And then the other thing is it is a moat against time So in a world of deflation and i want to make sure people understand because this word deflation everyone jumps to that means assets are going down and i

1076
01:15:33,733 --> 01:15:40,713
want to keep saying hyper competition is deflation that's what it means when innovation is so fast

1077
01:15:40,713 --> 01:15:45,373
it's driving down the cost to zero and then everyone that can't afford to run their business

1078
01:15:45,373 --> 01:15:51,413
at zero goes out of business and the debt that's associated with it okay but that's not happening

1079
01:15:51,413 --> 01:15:57,913
you're going to have hyper competition so in a world of deflation where i have a business i'm

1080
01:15:57,913 --> 01:16:04,373
being out competed by ai then your business starts heading towards zero bitcoin doesn't have a value

1081
01:16:04,373 --> 01:16:09,133
it doesn't have cash flows it doesn't have anything so if you're losing over here you're like let me

1082
01:16:09,133 --> 01:16:15,033
put it over here that's what a store of value is but it's a deflationary store of value gold standard

1083
01:16:15,033 --> 01:16:21,073
was a deflationary asset that's what you wanted to own during the great depression

1084
01:16:21,073 --> 01:16:23,333
because you knew it was going to be worth something.

1085
01:16:23,693 --> 01:16:26,513
Only later on in the fiat system did people go,

1086
01:16:26,853 --> 01:16:29,113
I need to have gold because I'm going to inflate my way out.

1087
01:16:29,833 --> 01:16:33,053
Stocks have been just as good as gold as an inflationary hedge.

1088
01:16:33,053 --> 01:16:39,093
So in a deflationary hedge, you lose on all of your assets except for Bitcoin,

1089
01:16:39,473 --> 01:16:42,053
probably gold as well, but I think Bitcoin is a better choice.

1090
01:16:42,893 --> 01:16:46,233
And so earlier in the show, we were talking about the $900 trillion of assets

1091
01:16:46,233 --> 01:16:49,493
and Bitcoin's just under $2 trillion right now.

1092
01:16:49,493 --> 01:16:53,593
how big does it have to become to become relevant like you said earlier like it's not really a

1093
01:16:53,593 --> 01:16:58,753
relevant figure to actually soak up all of that that 900 trillion how big does bitcoin have to

1094
01:16:58,753 --> 01:17:08,413
become i i've said that i think by 2035 the crypto ecosystem the total crypto market cap has to be at

1095
01:17:08,413 --> 01:17:14,593
least 100 trillion kind of in the in the vision i am and that's assuming a bunch of of so i do

1096
01:17:14,593 --> 01:17:19,573
everything in probabilities of three. So let's assume crypto doesn't grow and the fiat system

1097
01:17:19,573 --> 01:17:25,153
just continues as it is. And we just keep printing money and the assets go up and crypto ends up

1098
01:17:25,153 --> 01:17:30,573
still being six trillion in a decade. And it just grows by the amount of liquidity. That's one

1099
01:17:30,573 --> 01:17:34,493
scenario. The second one is that I'm right about the deflationary side and people get frustrated

1100
01:17:34,493 --> 01:17:38,113
with their fiat assets. There's a move to tokenization. That money moves into the guard

1101
01:17:38,113 --> 01:17:43,553
rails because now it's all moving into the guard rails and Bitcoin benefits. And it probably stays

1102
01:17:43,553 --> 01:17:49,873
33% of the assets, meaning it goes down from 60 down and you have the ecosystem,

1103
01:17:50,033 --> 01:17:55,413
the crypto rails that grow more. And then the third scenario is that I'm actually

1104
01:17:55,413 --> 01:18:01,333
underestimating the agents moving away from all of this other stuff and they're investing

1105
01:18:01,333 --> 01:18:06,553
primarily in Bitcoin. And I think that's a smaller possibility, but I would put it equally

1106
01:18:06,553 --> 01:18:11,073
at the same as the other. So I just come to a hundred trillion dollars is something that I

1107
01:18:11,073 --> 01:18:17,853
think is valid. And I think Bitcoin will be at a minimum a third of that. So that means it's market

1108
01:18:17,853 --> 01:18:22,953
cap in a decade in my mind of just, again, if it wasn't for AI, this would not happen. This is all

1109
01:18:22,953 --> 01:18:28,593
about the deflationary pressures hurting the way the current 900 trillion looks at it at the same

1110
01:18:28,593 --> 01:18:32,873
point of them being able to value it from the programmable side. And they're actually getting

1111
01:18:32,873 --> 01:18:37,793
interested and I can feel it. So at 33 trillion, you can go through your whole side and be like,

1112
01:18:37,793 --> 01:18:41,213
okay, well, he's saying it's going to be worth 17 times where it is today.

1113
01:18:41,293 --> 01:18:43,033
That's a good number to go off of.

1114
01:18:43,073 --> 01:18:44,033
And I can live with that.

1115
01:18:44,053 --> 01:18:47,993
And then you get to a million and everyone can go have their million party.

1116
01:18:48,253 --> 01:18:50,853
I'll take, I'll take 33 trillion in 10 years time.

1117
01:18:50,953 --> 01:18:51,513
That sounds good.

1118
01:18:51,633 --> 01:18:52,913
In 10 years, just got to be patient.

1119
01:18:54,293 --> 01:18:55,293
Jordy, this has been amazing.

1120
01:18:55,573 --> 01:18:57,613
I've still got a thousand questions that I want to ask you,

1121
01:18:57,693 --> 01:18:58,913
but we'll have to do it again sometime.

1122
01:18:59,213 --> 01:19:00,553
Really appreciate you coming on the show.

1123
01:19:00,753 --> 01:19:04,773
And I'll be your Freddie Mercury for the, for the next one.

1124
01:19:04,813 --> 01:19:06,193
You can ask me whatever questions you want.

1125
01:19:06,193 --> 01:19:12,193
And tell everyone where they can find your show or the work you do.

1126
01:19:12,193 --> 01:19:20,713
AI.22vresearch.com where they can start from my own LLC website, which is visser-labs.com

1127
01:19:20,713 --> 01:19:25,893
and they can find everything there, but they can also find me on LinkedIn on X, Substack.

1128
01:19:25,893 --> 01:19:26,893
I'm everywhere.

1129
01:19:26,893 --> 01:19:27,893
You're everywhere.

1130
01:19:27,893 --> 01:19:28,893
I appreciate you, man.

1131
01:19:28,893 --> 01:19:29,893
That was really good.

1132
01:19:29,893 --> 01:19:30,893
Thanks, Danny.

1133
01:19:30,893 --> 01:19:31,793
Thanks, Danny.

1134
01:19:36,193 --> 01:20:06,173
Thank you.