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Inevitably, Bitcoin will go up again. Only broad participation against lots of people who truly

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understand Bitcoin can keep it there. The people that just get easy access to Bitcoin through

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institutionalization and paper Bitcoin and price exposure, by definition, because it was easy to

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buy, they have paper hands. The institutions and the retail that buy ETFs are easy to shake out of

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their positions. All the treasury stock type people are easy to shake out of their positions.

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people that truly understand real on-chain Bitcoin are much harder to shake out of their positions.

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Nothing can beat Bitcoin at this point. The rest of this century is basically just a race between,

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you know, dollar slash treasuries and gold and Bitcoin. And Bitcoin is the fastest horse in the

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race. And it's the one that's technologically and just kind of logically superior to the other two.

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And it's just a matter of getting people to wake up to that. It's okay to like pick up the baton

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and try to achieve something, you know, like define your mission, plan your mission, get on the damn

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mission, stay on the mission and be inspired.

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Corey Clipson, good to see you, mate.

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You're coming live from London.

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I am.

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I am in London for a little bit and bouncing around, planning to meet some Bitcoiners over

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on this side of the drink, working on some early potential expansion plans into some

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new markets and enjoying being able to do a lot of the morning shows that I really can't

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do from the West Coast with call times at like 1 a.m. and 6 a.m. having young children. So,

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yeah, really packing in the media appearances this summer and really trying to get the word out

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and bring some real signal and some positivity. I don't want to say back to the space because I

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don't think it ever really leaves. I just think in bear markets, it gets kind of drowned out by

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a lot of FUD and a lot of negativity and a lot of infighting. And it just feels like the exact

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right time to just be a lot louder coming through with Bitcoin education, really pushing

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adoption, really trying to create the circumstances through which individual humans can understand

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the power of real on-chain Bitcoin and self-custody after a lot of years of crypto madness and

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Bitcoin stonks and ETFs and TradFi and just kind of abdicating responsibility for reasons to get into Bitcoin to signals from authority, which I think is kind of what's gotten people into Bitcoin for the last four or five years has mostly just been like on the recommendation of somebody else that's successful in TradFi.

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and i'd like to fucking kill that completely and bring back people educating other people

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and um and getting them into bitcoin so you know i think what you continue to do

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is extremely important and uh you know i'm on the mission as always and uh have myself

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a little extra time more than i have in recent years and so uh yeah back on the warpath man

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let's go i want to get into all the efforts you guys are making at swan to sort of bring this back

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but i have to ask you cory is the is the death of london exaggerated i mean look it's been through

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tougher times they've had plague here uh you know i'm explaining to my wife the history of world war

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ii and you know why blitz yeah the blitz and you know why are some buildings new and some not and

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i'm like well that's pretty much a map of of strikes from the liftoff baby sorry uh you know

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And like, why are there such well built out basements in so many of these places?

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And I'm like, it's kind of some people actually did some reno when they were living down there

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for a year or two.

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You know, it's it's it is unbelievable.

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I think the whole city in some ways, I haven't verbalized this before, but I was thinking

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about it this morning.

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It's a lot like kids that get to live at like their parents' villa or their grandparents'

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villa or something like that.

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There's so much capital that's accumulated here over the years.

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like if you started out with the UK's economy today, you obviously couldn't get here. You know,

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it probably wouldn't look as nice as Santa Monica, which isn't very nice,

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you know, but because you have so many awesome buildings from so long ago,

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like Istanbul, you know, there's so much amazing architecture there. And a lot of it frankly came

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before the Ottomans even came to power, let alone all the cool shit they built, you know,

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long before it became a secular republic.

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And so you just get to walk around in certain cities around the world

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and benefit from the many, many generations before you.

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So I think that's pretty cool.

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You know, I moved for now from the third largest metropolitan economy on the planet,

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which is Los Angeles, to the fourth, which is London.

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New York and Tokyo being one, two, and Paris being number five.

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So, you know, you're just kind of moving from like capital to capital in some ways.

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It's not that different as far as being an international city and 40% of the people living

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here right now weren't born in the UK.

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So it's got that cosmopolitan vibe and flavor.

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And I mean it is weird I you know I not a fan of kind of walking around cities doxing myself but I obviously wore a Swan shirt to come do this show and I did Newt show earlier this morning

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And, of course, you get stopped a couple of times.

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It's like, are you Corey from Swan?

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And it's like, oh, okay, yeah, that's right.

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I mean, we may serve only the USA,

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but obviously our education and our content is global,

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and everybody gets Twitter.

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So it does carry, which is kind of funny.

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Yeah, as Fiat as London is,

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there are still some Bitcoiners there. I love London still. It has its problems, absolutely.

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But the architecture, the history is a beautiful city. I just hope it can get back to what it once

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was. I guess we have the benefit that we used to be the world reserve currency, which is what

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helped build it. But I still like London. It's fun. But we should get into Bitcoin. You guys

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are bringing the vibes back, which I am loving seeing. So I think we had a few cool things

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happen recently. X changing the algorithm, I think genuinely made a big difference. I've seen the

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positivity grow from that. You're bringing back Cafe Bitcoin. I know you've got a big push for

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the next 50 days. Tell people what you're doing. Yeah, so we call it 50 Days for Freedom. It kicked

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off on the 21st, so we're on day four right now. We brought back Cafe Bitcoin. I've been hosting

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every day this week, 10 a.m. Eastern, 3 p.m. UK time, 7 a.m. Pacific. It's been awesome. We go for

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90 minutes, tons of guests, just really trying to bring educators and doers and people that are

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actually building things up to talk about what they're doing. Obviously, a bit of news of the

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day and topics that I think are important. It's curated heavily by me personally, for better or

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worse. I think that's actually important that you have an editorial point of view and that you're

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bringing people on stage that you have a sense of their quality and that you actually go out

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actively and recruit people to come and join and have guests and things like that. So, I've always

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been about journalistic objectivity, understand what you know and what you don't and what the line

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is between them, try to present the facts, don't present opinions or forecasts as certain.

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And I'm just kind of all about, you know, just signal through the noise. That's always,

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you know, that's why it was called Swan Signal since inception, our weekly show that's been

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going for seven years now. And, you know, I just think it was a really good time to bring that back.

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I wrote a post that was kind of the third installment in the broad mission statement

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of Swan and myself and what we and I try to do in this space.

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It's called The Battle for Monetary Independence.

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Just put that up on Tuesday.

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It's much longer than most articles that I usually write.

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I think, you know, it's probably like a 15 minute read versus the usual, you know, five

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to seven minute read.

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But it really is kind of the third installment after 10 million Bitcoiners from 2020.

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And I think it was 2023, I put out the race to avoid the war.

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And the way I really think about the battle for monetary independence is that it's kind

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of like Russian nesting dolls, like a race to avoid the war is like a superset of the

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themes and the mission required that was elucidated in 10 million Bitcoiners.

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And then the battle for monetary independence is kind of a superset of the themes and the

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actions required that I talked about in The Race to Avoid the War. So I think it is a good rallying

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cry. It seems to be striking a nerve with a lot of people, which is great. We at Swan,

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we like to coordinate things and we like to provide a platform, whether it's Bitcoin or

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Jobs or Pacific Bitcoin or just producing shows or partnering with other companies.

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I can't help. I'm a pass-first point guard by training in basketball. You try to make everybody

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else score and then you win, right? So it's just kind of bringing that vibe back. I think there's

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just been a kind of a lot of me, me, me, selfish, selfish, selfish, I, I, I in Bitcoin in recent

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years. And I just wanted to do my best, as best as I know how, to the best of my capabilities

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and our capabilities to kind of bring that vibe back. So we're doing it. We put our money where

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our mouth is. We actually dropped our buy fee to 50 bps for the rest of the summer. So 0.5%

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We remain the only company that has always since inception picked up the network fees for withdrawals.

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So it is and always has been free to withdraw your coins into self-custody.

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Over 80% of the sats ever bought through SWAN are in self-custody as they should be.

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We're not in the business of custody.

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I don't want your damn coins.

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Like I want you to learn self-custody.

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We help you with CS to take custody completely yourself.

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We also have guided self-custody through Swan Sovereign, where you actually get a rep who can help you and do key ceremonies and help you figure out your wallets and stuff.

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And then, of course, we have Swan Vault for two of three multi-sig collaborative self-custody.

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So we really are there to help you own real on-chain Bitcoin and get comfortable to the point where you are perfectly willing and able to take self-custody.

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We can help you get there.

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So I think that is enough on the shilling of swan things.

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The one thing I will add just here at the outset is I done this a couple of times the last couple of weeks and I really enjoy it Email me Like if you interested in talking to me my Twitter DMs like rest in peace

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My company just, you know, communicates through Slack and Zoom.

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So actually email is like the place where things stand out.

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And it's been really fun.

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I've gotten dozens of messages from Bitcoiners the last couple of weeks since I've been saying Corey at Swan.com.

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C-O-R-Y at Swan.com.

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Email me if you have a question about Swan or Bitcoin or educational resources or whatever.

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Tell me what you're up to.

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I happen to have the bandwidth right now to be a bit of an information broker and a connector,

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more like in the early days of Swan and eager to be of service.

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You wouldn't reuse a Bitcoin address, so why does your phone broadcast the same identifier for life?

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Every SIM has a static ID and carriers, ad networks and bad actors all use it to track you.

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The big carriers have been caught selling that data over and over again.

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CAPE is America's privacy first mobile carrier.

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Their identifier rotation feature changes your ID every 24 hours

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so you look like a different subscriber every single day.

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And SIM swaps are off the table.

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Your number can't move without a 24-word phrase that only you hold.

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There's also no name at sign up, no social security number,

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and there's no profile to build on you.

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If you're a Bitcoiner in America,

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I honestly don't know why you'd use any other network.

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You can head over to cape.co forward slash WBD and use the code WBD for 33% off your first six months.

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That's C-A-P-E dot co forward slash WBD.

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If you own a Bitcoin ETF, especially if it's GBTC, you need to listen up.

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Spot Bitcoin ETFs provide price exposure to Bitcoin, not direct ownership.

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You can't withdraw it, you can't self-custody it, and they charge you a management fee every year to hold it.

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Well, Swan recently announced Swan Real Bitcoin Exchange and it's ready to use right now.

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RBX is a structured in-kind exchange that converts your spot Bitcoin ETF shares into real on-chain Bitcoin

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It does that without selling on the open market and is designed to support a tax-efficient outcome

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So for example, if you hold GBTC, you're paying 1.5% a year in management fees for Bitcoin price exposure

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But by swapping GBTC for real Bitcoin with RBX, you can drop that figure as low as 0% by just holding it in self-custody

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this is designed in a way that maintains your cost basis and in a manner that supports the

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deferral of capital gains tax so if you own a bitcoin etf especially if it's gbtc

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you need to talk to swan private about rbx today head over to swan.com forward slash wbd and book

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in a call with one of their team that's swan.com forward slash wbd if you already self-custody

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bitcoin you know the deal with hardware wallets complex setups clumsy interfaces and a seed phrase

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that can be lost, stolen or forgotten.

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BitKey fixes that.

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BitKey is self-custody built for real life.

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It gives you an intuitive, easy to use wallet

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with no seed phrase to sweat over.

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And it has a strong recovery system

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and built inheritance for long-term peace of mind.

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And BitKey's just had a massive upgrade.

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The new device now has a screen.

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So before you approve something,

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you can check it on the BitKey itself.

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The transaction, the address or any account changes.

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It's a big difference.

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You're not just trusting what's on your phone,

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you're seeing it for yourself on the device.

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it's simple secure self-custody without the stress go to bitkey.world today and use the

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code wbd to get 10 off the new bitkey that's bitkey.world and use the code wbd i love it i

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think that's awesome um can we get a bit more into your recent article because this was some

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clipston family history um just tell everyone sort of the the basis of the piece yeah so look

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you can you can access it really quickly we did a short link so it's just swan.com slash battle

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and you can check it out and that'll just redirect right to it. But broadly, it compares

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this moment in time and like the work of our generation right now to the work of the founding

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fathers of the American Republic 250 years ago. So their great job, the job of their generation

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was to achieve political independence. And I see it as being our job to achieve monetary independence.

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and we're early in the install of Bitcoin as global money across all three functions of money,

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store of value, medium of exchange, unit of account. We have a lot of bears to beat back.

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So battle of the bears is like one of the sub themes of the campaign and all this like, you

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know, kill the bears and battle the bears type art and memes and comic books and AI videos and

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things like that, which is really fun. But bringing it back to the article, you know, the

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The anchor or the through line is actually my grandfather's war journals from World War

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II.

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So, he was on the USS Yorktown.

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Unsurprisingly, he was in comps, so like radar and getting messages to and from the Admiral

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on the flight deck, whatever, and I guess like the observation deck and getting the word

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out on what he wanted to do and grabbing information and bringing it to him, et cetera.

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And he kept a journal every single day that he was on it from embarking in early 44 out

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of Bremerton Washington and then all the way through to Tokyo and Victory and Kamikazes and the whole thing And it all in there every day What was going on That incredible And so yeah so there quotes from his journal throughout it which are just I think

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spectacular and really inspiring.

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And I just really feel like, you know, standing on the shoulders of giants when we think about,

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you know, what that generation achieved, what the founding fathers generation achieved.

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and it's okay to like pick up the baton and try to achieve something, you know, like define your

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mission, plan your mission, get on the damn mission, stay on the mission and be inspired.

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Like, don't just let things happen. Don't just wait for somebody to give you permission for

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Bitcoin to be awesome. Like, I just feel like so many people were so passionate about this

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more than I see today, where I think there's just a lot of abdication of responsibility.

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And it's like, oh, we're so small in comparison to, you know, what's going on with like BlackRock or Sailor or Fidelity or the government or fucking Howard Lutnick or like whatever it is.

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It's like, no, these guys don't even really care that much.

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Most of those people I named, they don't give a shit at all.

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It's just kind of more fiat for them.

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And I think that we owe it to ourselves to really take up the battle cry and do it.

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And, you know, if I can pull my favorite anecdote from my grandfather, Philip's war journal, German descent, that's why he got sent to the Pacific and wasn't allowed to go to Europe.

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You know, so he has this story in there where, you know, kamikazes are inbound and Japanese planes are coming and like trying to fire on them.

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I think they took out 13 planes that day from the carrier.

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And it's all going on madness around him.

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And people are like scurrying and heads down and everything.

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And like he's scared too.

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And he's kind of like ducking down and like doesn't know where to be.

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And he looks over and like the Admiral is like dead center on the observing deck or whatever.

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Just standing there upright, you know, heartbeat, probably 55 per minute, something like that.

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And, you know, he looks at him and he was like, oh, I guess it's okay.

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You know, like maybe low chance of a plane actually crashing into us here and it would crash into me if I were squatting too, right?

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So he just goes over and stands next to him and starts doing the, you know, the comms thing and sending out the messages and gathering the messages and just, you know, being chill in the face of danger as well.

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And so I just encourage people that have like any kind of inclination to action, to leadership, to whatever. You're going to be so much happier that you did it when times were tough and were, you know, in five digit Bitcoin and you help rally the troops and we all get to like win together and come back out of this.

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You know, if, you know, some new institution or government or whatever the hell, you know, creates some narrative that Wall Street thinks it can sell and the media latches on, you know, and then they get the credit for the narrative, like inevitably Bitcoin will go up again.

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Only broad participation against lots of people who truly understand Bitcoin can like keep it there.

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The people that just get easy access to Bitcoin through institutionalization and paper Bitcoin and like price exposure, by definition, because it was easy to buy, they have lettuce hands.

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Like they have paper hands, you know, the institutions and the retail that buy ETFs are easy to shake out of their positions.

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All the treasury stock type people are easy to shake out of their positions.

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People that truly understand real on-chain Bitcoin are much harder to shake out of their positions.

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Like that's the holder base.

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And so I really do think that continues to be, you know, where the floor is set. That is where we can get a ripping bull market that's actually truly exciting and isn't so kneecapped by, you know, shitcoin chicanery like 21 was with SBF and Drayson Horowitz and all that Solana scamming or 25, which was just driven by institutional adoption by lettuce hands.

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right and we just got kneecapped and that should have been 180 or 200 not 126.

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So I do really hope that we see a bull market that really feels you know more like the bull

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market did when you know I first came into the space 2017 and how exciting that was.

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I can't even imagine being in from 2011 to 2013 and seeing it go from like a you know

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two bucks to 1100. Oh my God. Like that would be, we're not going to see that. I'm not promising

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that, but like, it does feel like we could, you know, at, at some point, it's not just going to

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go up four X, six X, eight X. Like I do think at some point there'll be kind of a super cycle or

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like an accelerated blow off top type thing. And I just think, you know, if that's going to happen,

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it's going to be because we get back to basics and actually share with people all of the

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underpinnings from Austrian economic thought to the best writing about Bitcoin, the best speaking about Bitcoin from the early days and like all the way through and just kind of marshal a new wave of actual human adoption.

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Yeah, this is why I love what you're doing, because I think we do need a really broad push to try and get the vibes back in Bitcoin.

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I've said this before on the show, but it feels like sentiment.

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is particularly bad in this bear market, even though we're only down 50%, which comparatively

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is not a lot, because there's kind of nothing to point to as the reason why we're going down.

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Like it felt like in the last bear market, obviously there was FTX blowing up, Terra

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Luna, all the block fires Celsius, all that craziness.

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And it was very easy to point at that and be like, that's the reason.

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Whereas this time, it doesn't really feel like we've had that, which I think has left

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people feeling confused, which is, I think, why sentiment's so bad.

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I don't know if you agree with that.

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But what we do need is sort of a rallying cry to get everyone back on side.

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No, I do totally agree.

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I think that, you know, unfortunately, you know, we all probably rehash this in Q1.

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But, you know, just briefly, I do think the one major theme that continues to resonate with me is that 100,000 kind of felt like an exit for a lot of early HODLers.

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but that was just a number that they had in mind where they would peel it off and like have a good

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life and buy the boat and pay for the kids college and kind of, and, and just diversify basically,

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you know, they carried for a long time in many cases from like single, double, triple digits,

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and it gets to six digits and you're like, ah, shit, like anywhere from 50 to 150, I'm peeling

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off. Right. And that's exactly what we saw. It was a lot of old coins that changed hands,

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but they've changed hands. And now we're at all time highs for long-term Bitcoin not moving,

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right? And just sticking there in addresses for over the six months, over 12 months,

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these numbers are at all time highs on chain now. And it does feel like we're kind of putting in a

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floor somewhere around here. Would I be surprised if we saw 49? No. Would I be surprised if we saw

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53? No. Would I be surprised if we see two or three months of the 58K stablecoin come back

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one more time. No, but, uh, you know, do I see like a, a real flush? I don't, I don't think that

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it's in the cards. I think this is a shallower bear, which makes sense. You know, we went down,

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you know, 85% and then 77%. And, you know, I think it's, I came into this cycle believing like

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if we actually had a proper bull market, I'd be fine with anything less than a 70% drawdown

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because the bear was, I'm sorry, because the bull was so muted and didn't reach the heights that I

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expected it to. It wasn't that exciting to go to 126. I think this is good. I think having hit

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57.5 or whatever, that's a perfectly reasonable floor for the spare market. And I am just

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encouraging everybody to buy the dip. Any excess fiat I have is going straight to Swan. Yes,

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I pay transaction fees at the damn company that I own. So I'm also excited at taking 0.5%

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and uh i just did uh you know just tested my whole setup again right before coming abroad and it's

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like i just can't believe how easy uh our product has gotten with uh with swan vault multi-sig like

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it's just so good so i highly recommend it like i stand behind it with two feet and i highly

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recommend you check it out that's awesome um so i i totally agree with what you're saying there

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though and and checkmate has a thing he says that the the bull market author is the bear that follows

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And I think that's what we've seen, like a 50% drop after the sort of muted last cycle

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makes sense.

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And I'm not in the business of calling tops or bottoms.

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I'm just here talking about Bitcoin to people.

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But what does seem clear is there are things happening that make me think the bottom is

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probably close, if not already in.

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And I think even just in the last few days, BitMEX has closed down.

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We're seeing some of the treasury companies capitulate.

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These are the things that I think end up marking the bottom.

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Do you think we are probably quite close?

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Yeah.

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And just from every bear market has bottomed out exactly 12 months after the bull peak.

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So what is that?

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When was it?

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October 26th?

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October.

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Yeah.

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I think it was late October.

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So it's three months away.

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Can we trundle along here for three months?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And if it bounces between 53 and 73, I don't think we're headed back to the bull until

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we punch through 73.

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that's just you know that was kind of the peak of the the etf pump in q124 and then in the in the

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bull there was one you know it went to like 108 but then it pulled all the way back down to 73 and

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that was support so it's been like the high and it's been the low now it has to be the one that

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you punch through to to head up to 200k i just think i think there's like very little but air

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above 73 so it'll be 73 a little bit of psychology around 100 again a little bit of psychology

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around 125 126 where the uh where the head where the basketball mark was but like i don't think

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that 100 and 125 are hard to punch through i think it really is like you know off and running once

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you punch through 73 let's go i i want to know why you think by the way i don't trade

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for me just you know thinking about my family's future and you know how to spend money at swan

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and make investments and think about campaigns and shit like that yeah exactly so i the same I obviously don trade The only trade I have in my future is selling some Bitcoin to buy a house at some point And I felt like I was close to that And now I probably a couple of years away again No you won have to buy a house

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My wife is going to make me buy a house.

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Yeah, I know. I'm married to a Turk. They don't believe in debt. So I get it.

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Yeah, exactly. I want to know why you think that the sort of the diminishing returns that we've seen in Bitcoin,

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the not so like I like you I came into Bitcoin 2016 2017 like that was my first bull market and

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being the first one and being the kind of market that we had it was pure euphoria craziness like

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those last few days of of 2017 were absolutely nuts and we've not really seen that again since

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why do you think they can come back and it's not just a forever diminishing returns type thing

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well I think it'll be vibe based so I'm not saying that I think we're gonna go from

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180 bucks to 19,700 that was like 110x from uh from property peak i don't see 110x cycle coming up

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uh and then also because it's just a law of large numbers and it's just like bigger it's just harder

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to move the thing so if you think about going from like 15 5 to 126 like that was 8x if we go from

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60 to 480 that's that's another 8x it could be muted like even if you went from like you know 60

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to you know 300 that would be a 5x which actually is diminishing returns in percentage terms

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but the vibes and the feel of that would still be just like rip roaring so i'm looking for like

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a vibe match not a percentage gains match that makes sense i i can't wait for those vibes to

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come back like they were then um do you think we've had a an adoption problem over the last

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few years? Because I mean, I obviously can track who's watching the podcast and it doesn't feel

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like we've had a huge influx of new people. I did a live show here in PubKey last night. And one of

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the questions I asked the audience was who had come to Bitcoin in the last couple of years.

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And I think three people raised their hand, which honestly was three people more than I expected to

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see. I don't know. I don't exactly know why we've not had the adoption. But do you think there is a

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problem there? So what it is very clearly to me is that, you know, ETFs and institutional adoption

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and spread of price exposure came about four or five years earlier than I expected it. I thought

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we did ETFs in like 2028 to 2030. So just like circular economies and trying to jam medium of

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exchange down somebody's throat long before people even understand owning and holding Bitcoin and

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long before it's actually like a stable store of value is too early. And that's basically just

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marketing. Like that's, that's all the El Salvador thing ever was, was just marketing, which is why

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I didn't get involved in it other than kind of helping a little bit in the background.

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It's like that, like the, the flip side of that coin of making it easy to buy Bitcoin,

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as, as I was saying 10 minutes ago, is that a lot of people bought Bitcoin price exposure without

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understanding what they own, not actually getting it into the real thing, not understanding the power

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of not having to ask for permission to hold and own your own assets. And those are just lettuce

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handed institutions and lettuce handed retail. And they just, you know, it was the last thing in

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their portfolio. It's the thing they understand the least. And so we cheered making it easy to

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buy Bitcoin. And it also is super easy to sell Bitcoin, again, because they don't have conviction.

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so we need to disable the sell button on swan again um that that would be

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there's a very there's a very bad history with hodl mode if you remember the celsius days

353
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uh i'm not i'm not sure you want to bring that back in any way shape or form but yeah we did

354
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hold out for about four and a half five years with no sell button i love that still um do you

355
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think any of it comes down to sort of narrative issues because like if you look at the past cycles

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2017, I always feel like that was when Bitcoin became a household name.

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Like certainly everyone did not understand Bitcoin, but I think most people had heard

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of Bitcoin at that point.

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And then you had sort of the 2020 COVID crash and then crazy stimulus, which kind of shoved

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inflation down everyone's throat for the first time.

361
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Everyone kind of woke up to that.

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Again, we had an influx of new people.

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And even 24, I guess we had this sort of ETF narrative, very different, way less cool,

364
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way less like punk rock Bitcoin.

365
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and I feel like now we're hanging out for one.

366
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Look, I think it's kind of back to basics.

367
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I think this is kind of the,

368
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I think the freedom narrative

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and the bulwark against tyranny,

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that's what motivated me.

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That's why in May we started planning

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for 50 Days for Freedom

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and the battle for monetary independence

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and all of this kind of came around.

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It's because there has been this rush

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of anti-freedom actions

377
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taken by governments in different places,

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often in collusion with private companies.

379
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You know, it started with the social media ban

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for under 16s in the UK And then like the next day there was a VPN ban for Utah And then you know a couple of days after that was like an announcement of you know the accelerated schedule for the Euro CBDC And then a few days after that was having to prove your ID that you

381
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not a miner to use the LLMs in the US, the Anthropic and OpenAI. And then you've got chat

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00:31:37,584 --> 00:31:43,804
control in the EU that they jammed through after losing five times in a row when there was a full

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vote, then they basically just did some tricks basically and reversed it and said on the last

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week before MPs go on vacation, it has to pass instead of fail by a majority of the people

385
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present. I'm sorry, a majority of the MPs, not the people present. So it actually like

386
00:32:01,504 --> 00:32:07,564
anti-chat control was the majority of people voting, but they set it up so that it had to be

387
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majority of the total and a bunch of people were already on the Riviera and don't give a shit

388
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because they just have a sanity here and they're bureaucrats that don't give a shit about the people

389
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and they pass chat control. So I just think that Bitcoin and just freedom tools, free open source

390
00:32:24,124 --> 00:32:34,384
software, cryptography generally are the last bastion of liberty. And this is really the time

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to take up that call. And that was the inspiration for writing the battle for monetary independence.

392
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It was the inspiration for this 50 day campaign of the battle for freedom through Bitcoin really

393
00:32:45,584 --> 00:32:52,244
is like Bitcoin as a freedom enabling tool. And I am just, I don't know. I don't know that I've

394
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been this excited and fired up in years. I mean, this, this feels like, this feels like when I got

395
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into Bitcoin, you know, building my conviction in 1819 and starting Swan and launching in 2020

396
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and just how much energy there was, you know, all the way through battling all the crypto scammers

397
00:33:12,284 --> 00:33:18,824
in 22 and all those collapses and how we were all cheering and having the blast even as Bitcoin was

398
00:33:18,824 --> 00:33:23,324
falling into the, you know, into the teens at Pacific Bitcoin in 22. Like it feels like that

399
00:33:23,324 --> 00:33:28,124
kind of moment right now. Do you want to pay less in taxes and stack more Bitcoin? Of course you do.

400
00:33:28,124 --> 00:33:30,464
Well, by mining Bitcoin with Blockware, you can.

401
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402
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403
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404
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405
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406
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407
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408
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409
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410
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411
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412
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413
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414
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415
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416
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That's blockwaresolutions.com forward slash WBD.

417
00:34:13,844 --> 00:34:15,104
If you hold Bitcoin long enough,

418
00:34:15,164 --> 00:34:16,864
there's gonna come a time when you need some dollars.

419
00:34:17,144 --> 00:34:18,984
It might be a tax bill, a business expense,

420
00:34:19,244 --> 00:34:20,104
life getting in the way,

421
00:34:20,284 --> 00:34:22,004
but whatever it is, it might come at a time

422
00:34:22,004 --> 00:34:23,264
when you don't wanna sell your Bitcoin.

423
00:34:23,844 --> 00:34:25,064
That's where Ledin comes in.

424
00:34:25,064 --> 00:34:27,324
Ledin lets you borrow against your Bitcoin instead

425
00:34:27,324 --> 00:34:29,864
with tiered rates that go as low as 9.25%

426
00:34:29,864 --> 00:34:32,724
so you don't have to sell your stack if you don't want to

427
00:34:32,724 --> 00:34:35,704
Ledin have operated through every market cycle since 2018

428
00:34:35,704 --> 00:34:38,444
and have originated over $11 billion in loans

429
00:34:38,444 --> 00:34:41,204
but the important part for me is the way Ledin handles these loans

430
00:34:41,204 --> 00:34:44,624
your collateral is held in custody and never lent out to generate interest

431
00:34:44,624 --> 00:34:47,064
and Ledin's more than just loans

432
00:34:47,064 --> 00:34:49,524
Tether Gold is now live alongside your Bitcoin

433
00:34:49,524 --> 00:34:51,684
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434
00:34:51,684 --> 00:34:54,024
and later this year you'll be able to borrow against gold

435
00:34:54,024 --> 00:34:55,744
in the same way that you do with Bitcoin.

436
00:34:56,724 --> 00:34:57,864
Ledin really is an awesome company.

437
00:34:58,044 --> 00:34:59,304
I've used them multiple times.

438
00:34:59,464 --> 00:35:01,584
The applications have taken me less than 15 minutes

439
00:35:01,584 --> 00:35:03,724
and you have the dollars in your account within hours.

440
00:35:04,164 --> 00:35:05,404
If you want to check out Ledin,

441
00:35:05,504 --> 00:35:08,744
go to ledn.io and use the code WBD

442
00:35:08,744 --> 00:35:10,844
for 0.25% off your first loan.

443
00:35:11,344 --> 00:35:14,284
That's ledn.io and use the code WBD.

444
00:35:14,864 --> 00:35:17,104
Every Bitcoiner eventually has to answer one question.

445
00:35:17,404 --> 00:35:18,364
If something happened to me,

446
00:35:18,484 --> 00:35:19,744
would my family know what to do?

447
00:35:20,144 --> 00:35:22,064
Could my wife or parents recover my Bitcoin

448
00:35:22,064 --> 00:35:25,304
and would my children inherit the Bitcoin that I spent years stacking?

449
00:35:25,924 --> 00:35:28,104
That's where Anchor Watch builds Bitcoin custody models

450
00:35:28,104 --> 00:35:30,304
to protect you and your family against real life,

451
00:35:30,744 --> 00:35:34,024
accidents, errors, kidnappings, and even your own death.

452
00:35:34,724 --> 00:35:37,904
Every Anchor Watch custody solution includes their inheritance protocol,

453
00:35:38,464 --> 00:35:40,004
designed so when the unthinkable happens,

454
00:35:40,104 --> 00:35:42,164
your Bitcoin reaches the people you intended it for.

455
00:35:42,644 --> 00:35:45,864
Whether you're a self-custody expert or want multi-institutional support,

456
00:35:46,064 --> 00:35:48,364
your Bitcoin estate plan shouldn't be an afterthought.

457
00:35:49,064 --> 00:35:50,644
Bitcoin is only generational wealth

458
00:35:50,644 --> 00:35:53,004
if it can actually be passed down through the generations.

459
00:35:53,404 --> 00:35:55,284
So make sure they can access in the future

460
00:35:55,284 --> 00:35:56,504
what you've built today.

461
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462
00:35:59,564 --> 00:36:01,364
Visit anchorwatch.com to get started.

463
00:36:01,724 --> 00:36:03,244
That's anchorwatch.com.

464
00:36:04,304 --> 00:36:05,924
I love the vibes coming back.

465
00:36:06,004 --> 00:36:07,104
And the funny thing about that

466
00:36:07,104 --> 00:36:08,924
Pacific Bitcoin conference in 2022,

467
00:36:09,284 --> 00:36:10,924
price was crashing, I was there,

468
00:36:11,024 --> 00:36:12,204
and vibes were still high then.

469
00:36:12,484 --> 00:36:13,944
Like amongst the hardcore Bitcoiners,

470
00:36:14,004 --> 00:36:15,064
the vibes don't really change.

471
00:36:15,144 --> 00:36:16,684
We just need to spread this to everyone else.

472
00:36:17,184 --> 00:36:19,584
The interesting thing on all the sort of crackdown

473
00:36:19,584 --> 00:36:35,020
on free and open use of the internet chat controls things like this is that there a proportion of people that say well move And I don really love that as an argument The amazing thing about Bitcoin and the freedom tech that being built is you can still live in those systems and just live in a totally

474
00:36:35,020 --> 00:36:41,540
parallel world. You don't have to necessarily follow these rules. Using Bitcoin, using VPNs,

475
00:36:41,540 --> 00:36:45,420
using open source AI, all these things are available to everyone and you could just live

476
00:36:45,420 --> 00:36:51,120
the life you want to live. That's right. Yeah. You can exit without physically exiting. And

477
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,280
And we've talked about this time and time again as Bitcoiners.

478
00:36:54,380 --> 00:36:56,320
And I don't think people really understand that.

479
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:04,520
And this kind of gets to, interestingly, I think it was the opening speech I gave at Pacific Bitcoin 2023.

480
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:17,500
Do you remember that was like the first big backlash from the shit coins on Bitcoin people and all the ordinals people and like the Oodis, whatever of the world, like hating on Bitcoin educators and saying it was, you know, whatever.

481
00:37:17,500 --> 00:37:32,460
And it was my cousin, Cameron Clipston, the much more famous Clipston in Los Angeles who grew up there. He came up to me after a Swan Salon and it happened to be, that's one of our private client events.

482
00:37:32,460 --> 00:37:37,140
and I was like I was a little drained because I'd been on stage you know talking and I kind of just

483
00:37:37,140 --> 00:37:42,160
felt like and I was kind of you know burying my chest in a little bit and saying like you know

484
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:48,120
it really felt like I am just kind of synthesizing things that I've read by other people and I just

485
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,860
feel like I'm kind of repeating things a lot you know like the same old jokes for a comedian or

486
00:37:52,860 --> 00:37:57,780
something like how much is there really like new thought here it's all been said to some degree

487
00:37:57,780 --> 00:38:00,280
and I feel a lot more creative now,

488
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,040
but at the time I was just feeling a little bit

489
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,160
like at the end of my cycle there a little bit.

490
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,880
And what he said is like,

491
00:38:08,020 --> 00:38:09,380
everything you said was awesome

492
00:38:09,380 --> 00:38:10,720
because I don't know much about Bitcoin

493
00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:12,280
and that was all new to me.

494
00:38:13,020 --> 00:38:15,980
And he reminded me of something that I should know

495
00:38:15,980 --> 00:38:19,340
because I ran a lot of YouTube sales strategy at Google.

496
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,900
And like, I know that over 99% of views

497
00:38:21,900 --> 00:38:24,060
come on new content, not library content.

498
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:25,700
And his point was,

499
00:38:25,700 --> 00:38:32,300
if somebody has chosen to listen to you, it actually is incumbent on you to, if you're the

500
00:38:32,300 --> 00:38:37,620
voice that they listen to and you're the educator they choose, it's incumbent upon you to tell them

501
00:38:37,620 --> 00:38:42,920
everything about Bitcoin. So like you with your audience, like you have to tell them everything

502
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:49,000
they should have learned if they read Bitcoin is worse is better and showing out. And, you know,

503
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:54,460
if they never saw the podcast with like, you know, Naval interview, or sorry, it was Tim Ferriss

504
00:38:54,460 --> 00:39:00,580
interviewing Nick Szabo and, you know, or they never listened to episode 71 of the Stefan

505
00:39:00,580 --> 00:39:04,660
Levera podcast, you know, intro to Bitcoin economic thought, you know, or Austrian economic

506
00:39:04,660 --> 00:39:09,540
thought, you know, so you kind of have to like resurface these things and repackage them and

507
00:39:09,540 --> 00:39:14,100
tell them in your own voice. And, you know, if people are learning Bitcoin because they're

508
00:39:14,100 --> 00:39:17,880
subscribed to your feed and they like your style and they like the cadence and you're a good

509
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:22,240
interviewer and the production value is good, like it's kind of on you to find the guests and find

510
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:27,660
the topics and ask the questions and figure out a way to get them up to speed on everything

511
00:39:27,660 --> 00:39:29,360
they've missed in the last 17 years.

512
00:39:30,140 --> 00:39:34,920
So I'm just kind of reminding myself of that responsibility and reminding our whole team

513
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:39,780
and everybody around us and the podcasts we sponsor, et cetera, like we actually have

514
00:39:39,780 --> 00:39:46,220
a responsibility to bring the best of everything forward, you know, kind of year after year.

515
00:39:46,220 --> 00:39:53,880
and you know using the the stand-up comic you know frame of reference again or the analogy like

516
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:58,020
some of the jokes may change and you're swapping it in and you're like hey there was this one piece

517
00:39:58,020 --> 00:40:02,600
about bitcoin and mises from 2014 actually the way they said it in 2019 was a little better so

518
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:08,100
we swapped that out and like the jokes or the routine just keeps on getting better but uh yeah

519
00:40:08,100 --> 00:40:14,380
i just i just think you know always be curating abc always be curating i think that's i think

520
00:40:14,380 --> 00:40:18,800
that's actually a really good point um it's like you're the band you need to play the hits you don't

521
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,960
want to be playing the obscure b-sides and i think when you've been doing this a long time

522
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:26,060
and having these conversations a lot it's easy to feel slightly jaded by them but i think that

523
00:40:26,060 --> 00:40:30,600
is actually a very good reminder is that the thing as like bitcoin educators people who who

524
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,120
do bitcoin content do you think that's the key thing we need to take forward or is there anything

525
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:44,220
else we should be doing better i mean that i see as kind of the key thing uh i do continue

526
00:40:44,220 --> 00:40:56,960
I think there's something interesting going on right now with just how accessible AI makes knowledge and deep dives, not just coding, but also just being able to do research so easily and so quickly.

527
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:08,640
I find it a lot easier to get to a point of technical understanding for a non-technical person than it's ever been before.

528
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:14,380
because you got to spend a lot of time with these tools

529
00:41:14,380 --> 00:41:17,680
and you have to understand that Gemini is the best at research

530
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,020
because it's Google and they have access to the internet

531
00:41:20,020 --> 00:41:22,560
and it's super fast and you can get all the information,

532
00:41:23,140 --> 00:41:26,580
but the logic engine is really stupid

533
00:41:26,580 --> 00:41:28,540
and it hallucinates constantly.

534
00:41:28,900 --> 00:41:33,740
And so you basically have to run it through ChatGBT,

535
00:41:33,740 --> 00:41:35,700
which is by far the smartest of the four,

536
00:41:35,700 --> 00:41:38,960
if you think of like Rock and Claude as being in there.

537
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:39,960
And so you can kind of like

538
00:41:39,997 --> 00:41:44,077
like bat them off. And then if you want like a crazy autistic cousin, then you also run it

539
00:41:44,077 --> 00:41:47,997
through Grok sometimes. And then, you know, if you're doing coding or processes or whatever,

540
00:41:47,997 --> 00:41:51,657
like Claude is fine, but Claude is not a good researcher and it's not a good logician

541
00:41:51,657 --> 00:41:57,477
for words, strategy, research, things like that. Like it's just, it's great for code and it's great

542
00:41:57,477 --> 00:42:02,317
for process and that's fine. And sure, whatever, maybe Dario invents AGI, I don't know. But,

543
00:42:02,817 --> 00:42:08,597
you know, I just, I just find it's, it's rather easy now to get up to speed on technical topics

544
00:42:08,597 --> 00:42:15,957
for someone who's not that technical, you know? And I enjoyed jumping back into coding for the

545
00:42:15,957 --> 00:42:21,397
first time since the 90s. And I did a lot of it in like December, January, February. And we launched

546
00:42:21,397 --> 00:42:26,037
Speakeasy, which I prototyped. And we launched Vigil Protocol, which I prototyped, which is like

547
00:42:26,037 --> 00:42:31,637
family financial orchestration for Bitcoiners and non-Bitcoiners. Go to vigilprotocol.ai if you want

548
00:42:31,637 --> 00:42:39,277
want to check that out or email me. But yeah, I think then I just started realizing, you know,

549
00:42:39,277 --> 00:42:44,857
so much of this is just about having a tool for easy, faster understanding of complex topics

550
00:42:44,857 --> 00:42:52,237
and helping you kind of explain things to other people and arming yourself with good info. And I

551
00:42:52,237 --> 00:42:57,357
love that aspect of it. Obviously, it's great for strategy and great for marketing and writing and

552
00:42:57,357 --> 00:43:01,297
all kinds of different things, but I'm really enjoying being able to use it as a research tool

553
00:43:01,297 --> 00:43:07,297
as well yeah i'd be we should get individual later on because i am interested in that but um

554
00:43:07,297 --> 00:43:11,597
before we do that like you you have obviously been pushing bitcoin to sort of broader audiences

555
00:43:11,597 --> 00:43:16,357
trying to go through like the more cultural um avenues you had a lot of like basketball players

556
00:43:16,357 --> 00:43:20,337
people like that on the team do you still see that as a very important thing because i mean i had

557
00:43:20,337 --> 00:43:24,457
brandon quit on the show recently and we were talking about the uh archetypes of bitcoiners

558
00:43:24,457 --> 00:43:29,737
and how we're all just as a little bit weird and obviously we need to scale this to beyond the uh

559
00:43:29,737 --> 00:43:30,777
the autists of the world.

560
00:43:31,217 --> 00:43:33,177
Do you still see that as a very key avenue?

561
00:43:38,397 --> 00:43:45,617
I do think that when we were going a lot more after mass retail

562
00:43:45,617 --> 00:43:48,497
and probably just...

563
00:43:49,897 --> 00:43:51,657
I think the way that...

564
00:43:51,657 --> 00:43:52,277
You know what it is?

565
00:43:52,357 --> 00:43:52,997
It's probably...

566
00:43:52,997 --> 00:43:54,717
It was the ETFs launching in 24

567
00:43:54,717 --> 00:43:59,357
that basically pushed Bitcoin-only fintechs

568
00:43:59,357 --> 00:44:03,477
more mid funnel and ETFs became a much bigger part of the top of funnel.

569
00:44:03,857 --> 00:44:07,837
It made it a lot easier to do kind of private client businesses.

570
00:44:07,837 --> 00:44:15,197
It made it a lot easier to have subscription revenue from retirement accounts and different

571
00:44:15,197 --> 00:44:20,437
custody products and loans and things like that because you didn't have to fight against

572
00:44:20,437 --> 00:44:23,577
altcoins because altcoins are basically dead.

573
00:44:24,157 --> 00:44:28,377
So it's like a much better and cleaner top of funnel and especially because the ETFs

574
00:44:28,377 --> 00:44:33,377
sell a much inferior product to what you have. So it just kind of naturally sends people down

575
00:44:33,377 --> 00:44:43,817
funnel to Bitcoin financial services firms. But the broad retail is very handled by Robinhood,

576
00:44:43,817 --> 00:44:52,097
E-Trade, Fidelity, ETFs, et cetera, when they're not into it yet. So we used to have the first

577
00:44:52,097 --> 00:44:56,897
purchase from the majority of our new customers, it was the first place they ever bought Bitcoin.

578
00:44:56,897 --> 00:45:11,257
And it was like that for years. And now it's more like, you know, two thirds have an ETF already. And then they're going through that phase and starting to learn and care about Bitcoin after that and realizing it's better to have ownership than just exposure.

579
00:45:12,657 --> 00:45:15,797
So it really is just education, education, education at this point.

580
00:45:15,797 --> 00:45:27,777
It is because, yeah, because I could go and, you know, do a jersey patch on the Lakers or go and, you know, try to cut a deal with like Giannis or, you know, Roger Federer or something like that.

581
00:45:27,817 --> 00:45:29,257
And like, it just wouldn't fucking do anything.

582
00:45:30,077 --> 00:45:32,037
That's all that market is all gambling.

583
00:45:32,337 --> 00:45:38,717
It's all hot stocks and, you know, hot cryptos and leverage trading and sports betting and prediction markets.

584
00:45:38,717 --> 00:45:42,397
I mean, you just cannot outspend these guys because they're the house of a casino.

585
00:45:42,397 --> 00:45:50,597
and that's where the mass market is you know it makes sense for coinbase to put their name on the

586
00:45:50,597 --> 00:45:56,597
backboard during the playoffs and it makes sense for all the gambling sites to be on the epl jerseys

587
00:45:56,597 --> 00:46:02,097
you know it doesn't make sense for a bitcoin company to do that yeah no i totally agree with

588
00:46:02,097 --> 00:46:07,437
that um you you said that um you think altcoins are dead and i know we spoke about this a little

589
00:46:07,437 --> 00:46:11,617
bit on the last show but i think it's worth revisiting do you think that like obviously

590
00:46:11,617 --> 00:46:18,097
the vibes in bitcoin have been low the vibes in crypto it is over um i i am reluctant to say it's

591
00:46:18,097 --> 00:46:22,837
dead forever because like whenever i think that they come back with some new innovation but um

592
00:46:22,837 --> 00:46:28,337
well it's fake innovation it's dead for the fight that i care about which was okay what's what's

593
00:46:28,337 --> 00:46:33,657
that well there was there was this you know it was the it was the the altcoin battle or the battle

594
00:46:33,657 --> 00:46:38,897
of Bitcoin versus crypto and it was seven years. It was basically 2017 to 2023 inclusive

595
00:46:38,897 --> 00:46:43,437
of those seven years. And it was when a bunch of them were making claims to be better money.

596
00:46:44,717 --> 00:46:59,853
And it was you know it ended with the last gasp of the ETH heads and the bankless guys claiming that ETH was super sound or whatever And basically with the merge spurge plurge spooge doge whatever that was that Ethereum did

597
00:46:59,853 --> 00:47:06,273
and switching to proof of stake, that was the end of it. And I think the launch of the ETFs was

598
00:47:06,273 --> 00:47:11,513
kind of the nail in the coffin in January of 24. And it's just not a thing that gives me any

599
00:47:11,513 --> 00:47:18,173
thinking or pausing or anything at all. I mean, you can maybe have a short-term trade

600
00:47:18,173 --> 00:47:23,993
in a stock or a shitcoin that may outperform Bitcoin for a short period of time,

601
00:47:23,993 --> 00:47:29,213
but you can't do a one-way trade and hold for a few decades.

602
00:47:29,993 --> 00:47:30,553
Yeah.

603
00:47:30,733 --> 00:47:36,873
Because the founder could die or Vitalik could actually act on his fantasies of doing

604
00:47:36,873 --> 00:47:43,693
horrible things to young people or like whatever it is, you know, like I think I just, you know,

605
00:47:43,693 --> 00:47:48,293
you just, you can't trust these things that are just, that have leaders and that aren't

606
00:47:48,293 --> 00:47:49,793
Bitcoin in that way.

607
00:47:50,333 --> 00:47:55,913
And that's true of, you know, the, the leverage Bitcoin equity treasury stocks, which require

608
00:47:55,913 --> 00:47:58,693
all these levels of execution, have key man risk, et cetera.

609
00:47:58,693 --> 00:48:01,133
Like you just can't put much of your net worth into these things.

610
00:48:01,133 --> 00:48:04,253
um i think the only

611
00:48:04,253 --> 00:48:15,133
yeah but you are you are just um they're not even making the claim of any there's no altcoin that

612
00:48:15,133 --> 00:48:20,333
i've heard of in the last couple of years that's made any kind of claim of like being better than

613
00:48:20,333 --> 00:48:25,853
bitcoin at being money yeah that's the fight we've won we've won it's completely defeated and i don't

614
00:48:25,853 --> 00:48:31,573
really care about the other stuff because the bull case for crypto blockchain defy always which

615
00:48:31,573 --> 00:48:37,673
i became aware of by 2019 and have said ever since is the bull case is to merge with tradfi

616
00:48:37,673 --> 00:48:43,453
and provide incremental improvements to financial it which i have no fucking problem with i'd like

617
00:48:43,453 --> 00:48:51,333
go for it dude like you know improve settlement times a little bit you know put some tokenize

618
00:48:51,333 --> 00:48:56,933
some cows and take a loan against it. You know, like it's fine. I don't give a shit. Like it's

619
00:48:56,933 --> 00:49:03,113
just, it doesn't matter. Real world assets on chain is just like, you know, another flavor of

620
00:49:03,113 --> 00:49:09,933
digital recording of asset ownership. It's still adjudicated in meat space. I don't even, I don't

621
00:49:09,933 --> 00:49:14,613
give a shit if somebody comes and tells me about their Wharton blockchain certification. Like it

622
00:49:14,613 --> 00:49:19,433
doesn't mean what they thought it was going to mean back then that we'd have all these competing

623
00:49:19,433 --> 00:49:24,633
currencies. It was like, that was the one major thing that Andreas Antonopoulos got dreadfully

624
00:49:24,633 --> 00:49:29,733
wrong because he just never understood Austrian economics. Great at technical explanations of

625
00:49:29,733 --> 00:49:33,973
Bitcoin, but like all his economic stuff was just terrible because he would always talk about,

626
00:49:34,053 --> 00:49:37,513
you know, there's going to be some little girl in like Eastern Kenya that will start a currency

627
00:49:37,513 --> 00:49:42,853
in our village and it could be worth a lot. And it's like, no, they're going to get fucking wrecked

628
00:49:42,853 --> 00:49:47,733
like the dudes that were, you know, trading glass beads, you know, because their currency is shit

629
00:49:47,733 --> 00:49:49,293
and doesn't have a monetary network effect.

630
00:49:49,493 --> 00:49:51,933
So nothing can beat Bitcoin at this point.

631
00:49:52,113 --> 00:49:54,213
The rest of this century is basically just a race

632
00:49:54,213 --> 00:49:57,193
between, you know, dollars slash treasuries

633
00:49:57,193 --> 00:49:58,893
and gold and Bitcoin.

634
00:49:59,073 --> 00:50:00,693
And Bitcoin is the fastest horse in the race.

635
00:50:00,733 --> 00:50:01,993
And it's the one that's technologically

636
00:50:01,993 --> 00:50:05,113
and just kind of logically superior to the other two.

637
00:50:05,233 --> 00:50:07,313
And it's just a matter of getting people to wake up to that.

638
00:50:07,753 --> 00:50:09,813
Like the real lines that are going is like,

639
00:50:09,813 --> 00:50:12,673
it's 8 billion people versus 21 million coins.

640
00:50:12,853 --> 00:50:14,373
Like that's really the only two numbers

641
00:50:14,373 --> 00:50:15,393
that matter for this thing.

642
00:50:16,353 --> 00:50:17,193
Let's go.

643
00:50:17,193 --> 00:50:23,333
can I get your sort of broad take on everything that's happened with strategy and especially on

644
00:50:23,333 --> 00:50:27,873
their sort of marketing side over the last you know six eight months because one of the things

645
00:50:27,873 --> 00:50:32,153
that I had a really big problem with is calling saying that he was making bitcoin better money

646
00:50:32,153 --> 00:50:36,053
that that was like really the marketing push that I did not like that didn't sit well with me

647
00:50:36,053 --> 00:50:43,053
but like what's your overall take well that was the uh you know Fonzie jumping the shark moment

648
00:50:43,053 --> 00:50:53,593
And that was kind of when like even even the nicest Bitcoiners that like him personally and like the team and like the effort and love having them on the bid like that was a bridge too far.

649
00:50:54,313 --> 00:51:01,413
So I was I was OK with digital credit, even though Stretch and SATA are not digital credit.

650
00:51:01,413 --> 00:51:04,993
They're hybrid equities and it's you know, it is an equity and it's professional preferred.

651
00:51:05,233 --> 00:51:11,693
And, you know, using the language of better savings is pretty much what Mashensky and BlockFi used to say.

652
00:51:11,693 --> 00:51:18,033
and you know that that wasn't really okay but it did seem like they'd always caveat it on their

653
00:51:18,033 --> 00:51:22,293
appearances and they would actually always point to the fine print and they would always be like

654
00:51:22,293 --> 00:51:27,453
you know i know it's actually a hybrid equity it's just like it like the buyers are seeing it as

655
00:51:27,453 --> 00:51:31,093
credit and it does kind of have a yield because there's a payment every month or whatever so like

656
00:51:31,093 --> 00:51:37,693
i was okay with digital credit as a term of art and the way they were talking about it uh i didn't

657
00:51:37,693 --> 00:51:45,153
like any of the marketing to retail. From inception, when I saw these, I saw this as a

658
00:51:45,153 --> 00:51:50,093
Wall Street product. I saw these as leveraged Bitcoin equities. That's what they actually are.

659
00:51:50,213 --> 00:51:55,573
That's why I created the acronym in late 23 LBE, because it accurately describes what's going on.

660
00:51:56,113 --> 00:52:11,869
A Bitcoin treasury company masks what going on and confuses people because if you have Bitcoin in your treasury like MassMutual or Tesla you a Bitcoin treasury company and so is Swan and probably so are you right You a Bitcoin treasury company because you have Bitcoin in your treasury So it just confusing and doesn make

661
00:52:11,869 --> 00:52:19,269
any sense. A leveraged Bitcoin equity should provide levered exposure to Bitcoin price.

662
00:52:19,769 --> 00:52:27,529
And so it should be essentially a way to get 1.2X per year or 1.15X per year that compounds over

663
00:52:27,529 --> 00:52:35,369
time. It also will draw down more in a bear market when Bitcoin drops. It's hard to do. You can't

664
00:52:35,369 --> 00:52:40,649
create perpetual leverage that just sits there. You have to actively kind of trade and market

665
00:52:40,649 --> 00:52:45,849
and access capital markets and talk to shareholders and you face liquidity crunches

666
00:52:45,849 --> 00:52:50,969
and key man risk and regulatory risk and all these other things. There's all these extraneous factors.

667
00:52:50,969 --> 00:52:57,209
True of ETFs as well, by the way, which is why you can't just buy and hold a 2x long ETF. They always

668
00:52:57,529 --> 00:53:02,369
have an error tracking the index, which is why they're actually used as hedging tools by

669
00:53:02,369 --> 00:53:09,289
professional traders, not buy and holds for long-term investors. You can't use them that

670
00:53:09,289 --> 00:53:13,489
way. They erode and they don't actually track it and they have high expense ratios and you just get

671
00:53:13,489 --> 00:53:21,889
wrecked. And so I never thought they should have been marketed to retail. I thought the whole point

672
00:53:21,889 --> 00:53:23,849
was trying to get institutions into it.

673
00:53:24,749 --> 00:53:29,829
If you're obviously like watching the institutional marketing

674
00:53:29,829 --> 00:53:31,629
and seeing people going doing roadshows

675
00:53:31,629 --> 00:53:35,849
and getting institutions into the stock and their preferreds,

676
00:53:35,849 --> 00:53:39,289
like by all means, if that like I'm all about freedom

677
00:53:39,289 --> 00:53:41,769
and you should be like free to do what you want.

678
00:53:41,909 --> 00:53:43,969
But I don't like the messaging coming through

679
00:53:43,969 --> 00:53:45,949
with like superhero memes and like, you know,

680
00:53:46,009 --> 00:53:48,249
hot girl on the tide beach talking about retiring

681
00:53:48,249 --> 00:53:50,629
on a preferred equity or whatever.

682
00:53:50,629 --> 00:53:58,469
But even all of that didn't really raise my hackles until it was like a derivative of a derivative is digital money.

683
00:53:59,789 --> 00:54:02,429
You know, with the oil derrick meme or whatever.

684
00:54:02,589 --> 00:54:04,749
And like we refined Bitcoin into digital money.

685
00:54:04,749 --> 00:54:26,449
And I was like, bro, you're literally taking like a tranche of a preferred share that's traded on the DeFi rails of like former crypto scammers who you're now putting on stage at your conference and pumping them.

686
00:54:27,049 --> 00:54:30,729
And, you know, I just and calling it digital money.

687
00:54:30,909 --> 00:54:32,929
Anyway, so that I thought was a bridge too far.

688
00:54:33,009 --> 00:54:34,229
I hope they pull back from that.

689
00:54:34,229 --> 00:54:36,129
I think they'll revisit that term.

690
00:54:36,129 --> 00:54:40,629
I still very much like as people,

691
00:54:40,629 --> 00:54:44,729
let's say like Sailor and Sharish and CJ and the team at Strategy,

692
00:54:44,729 --> 00:54:48,969
I still like people Matt and Ben and Jeff over at Strive.

693
00:54:48,969 --> 00:54:54,929
Kudos to both of those teams for actually achieving live functioning LBEs,

694
00:54:54,929 --> 00:54:57,529
the only two in the US that actually achieved it.

695
00:54:57,529 --> 00:55:00,229
Everybody else either died or is still

696
00:55:00,229 --> 00:55:04,089
subscale and hasn't even been able to lever up in that way.

697
00:55:04,229 --> 00:55:09,249
I do think one of the most interesting things that came out from the strategy team where they

698
00:55:09,249 --> 00:55:13,749
said that 80% of the people that bought it were retail investors. And like you said earlier,

699
00:55:13,749 --> 00:55:20,029
this was kind of touted as being an institutional vehicle. And clearly, we didn't get there to a

700
00:55:20,029 --> 00:55:24,349
great degree. And I do wonder if that means the institutional money that everyone expected to

701
00:55:24,349 --> 00:55:28,729
flow into Bitcoin last cycle is still on the sidelines. And that's sort of a big pool of

702
00:55:28,729 --> 00:55:35,089
capital that we'll tap into in the next few years? Yeah. So look, I know what I wanted to say in the

703
00:55:35,089 --> 00:55:41,429
last section, which is that even in the height of the hysteria of strategy in, you know, 24, 25,

704
00:55:42,049 --> 00:55:45,729
you know, we had a hard line that I personally had to come up with and kind of put through our

705
00:55:45,729 --> 00:55:50,529
whole sales and marketing team, which is like, yes, we understand some of our clients are also

706
00:55:50,529 --> 00:55:55,789
allocating to this, but like hold the line and be very firm that you actually believe, you know,

707
00:55:55,789 --> 00:55:59,569
80% of their Bitcoin price exposure minimum should be real on-chain Bitcoin.

708
00:56:00,289 --> 00:56:03,189
So if you want a trading stack, understand that that's a trade.

709
00:56:03,669 --> 00:56:05,009
Understand it's not the real thing.

710
00:56:05,489 --> 00:56:10,749
Understand there's a lot of risks on top of Bitcoin that you're accepting by buying these, you know, securities.

711
00:56:11,549 --> 00:56:12,289
And just make sure.

712
00:56:12,629 --> 00:56:18,689
I would say having watched the last year of, you know, NACA, Sequans, which we, you know, advised to some degree.

713
00:56:18,689 --> 00:56:21,269
and Empree and Pops thing

714
00:56:21,269 --> 00:56:25,009
and, you know, all the hundreds of failed attempts

715
00:56:25,009 --> 00:56:26,549
that Debra even got off the ground

716
00:56:26,549 --> 00:56:28,749
and then watching what happened to strategy

717
00:56:28,749 --> 00:56:30,429
and their price.

718
00:56:30,689 --> 00:56:31,989
Like, at this point, I'm like,

719
00:56:32,109 --> 00:56:35,349
like, minimum 90% of your Bitcoin price exposure

720
00:56:35,349 --> 00:56:37,409
should be real on-chain Bitcoin.

721
00:56:37,609 --> 00:56:39,069
And if you want to gamble a little bit

722
00:56:39,069 --> 00:56:40,969
and, like, think you have an N or something like that,

723
00:56:41,029 --> 00:56:42,229
like, sure, go there.

724
00:56:42,229 --> 00:56:44,529
But I think you'll be very happy

725
00:56:44,529 --> 00:56:47,069
buying and holding Decoin for the long term.

726
00:56:48,689 --> 00:56:54,829
Yeah, that's all I do. I do think that going forward, maybe these will perform kind of like

727
00:56:54,829 --> 00:56:58,809
altcoins did in the past, where maybe during a bull market, they'll outperform Bitcoin,

728
00:56:59,109 --> 00:57:01,709
but I don't think over any long arc of time they will.

729
00:57:02,149 --> 00:57:05,109
Then you shouldn't hold them at all, because that's really the promise of a leveraged Bitcoin

730
00:57:05,109 --> 00:57:09,169
equity. So if you think they're going to weed out so much that over the long haul,

731
00:57:09,229 --> 00:57:12,149
they don't outperform Bitcoin, then you should never buy it.

732
00:57:14,669 --> 00:57:24,966
And I mean I no markets guy That just my gut check on it at the moment Have you seen that Strategy Galaxy BlackRock a few other companies have just come out with this Bitcoin

733
00:57:24,966 --> 00:57:27,046
security consortium? I have. Yeah.

734
00:57:27,046 --> 00:57:31,046
What's... So the idea of this is... Sorry, just for the audience, the idea of this is that they're

735
00:57:31,046 --> 00:57:36,726
going to try and do some novel quantum proof cryptography, sort of build on that. Does it

736
00:57:36,726 --> 00:57:38,966
worry you in any way, like the group of people that are working on it?

737
00:57:38,966 --> 00:57:55,206
So that's one of the things they say they're going to work on. I think Galaxy announced first, and I think of it, it's not using the word of a pledge, but I think that is the way to understand it. So they basically pledged $5 million, and then the rest of the firms kicked in, and I think it's like $15 million total.

738
00:57:55,206 --> 00:58:03,726
it's not going to any central entity and each of the companies gets to spend the money however they

739
00:58:03,726 --> 00:58:10,866
want and so in that respect it doesn't worry me as being like particularly centralizing

740
00:58:10,866 --> 00:58:18,206
uh you know i just see it as you know why not having have some people spending some money on

741
00:58:18,206 --> 00:58:22,046
bitcoin and looking at things and they're probably gonna hire people that really give a shit and

742
00:58:22,046 --> 00:58:23,386
And we'll look at these things.

743
00:58:23,626 --> 00:58:31,146
And this is why, again, you can't always look at something that appears stupid and negative and self-serving.

744
00:58:31,286 --> 00:58:34,406
And like there may be a silver lining to the cloud.

745
00:58:35,066 --> 00:58:41,426
So, you know, there was a lot of penny stock pump and dumping in early 25 around quantum themes.

746
00:58:41,426 --> 00:58:45,346
And a bunch of people ripped people's faces off and did a lot of scamming and got away with it as usual.

747
00:58:45,346 --> 00:58:47,206
and basically by the fall,

748
00:58:47,306 --> 00:58:48,286
there were a bunch of crypto,

749
00:58:48,486 --> 00:58:50,246
blockchain VCs and companies

750
00:58:50,246 --> 00:58:53,346
pumping crypto, you know, quantum FUD

751
00:58:53,346 --> 00:58:54,486
and, you know, basically

752
00:58:54,486 --> 00:58:55,726
the way they marketed their funds

753
00:58:55,726 --> 00:58:56,766
and marketed their companies

754
00:58:56,766 --> 00:58:58,326
was saying that Bitcoin was, you know,

755
00:58:58,386 --> 00:59:00,626
in dire need of saving like right now.

756
00:59:00,706 --> 00:59:01,546
So fund my deal.

757
00:59:02,166 --> 00:59:03,486
And that sucked.

758
00:59:03,546 --> 00:59:05,466
And I do think it was part of the muting

759
00:59:05,466 --> 00:59:07,066
of the bull market last fall

760
00:59:07,066 --> 00:59:10,186
was quantum FUD kind of selfishly.

761
00:59:10,566 --> 00:59:12,586
But, you know, there is a silver lining.

762
00:59:12,846 --> 00:59:14,266
Not everything is in the con column.

763
00:59:14,266 --> 00:59:17,006
and why not have some shit on the shelf

764
00:59:17,006 --> 00:59:18,886
kind of ready to go, well-researched,

765
00:59:19,106 --> 00:59:20,686
in case something ever happens.

766
00:59:21,046 --> 00:59:22,146
Do I think it's urgent? No.

767
00:59:22,406 --> 00:59:25,126
Do I think it was genuine and honest

768
00:59:25,126 --> 00:59:28,526
the way that a bunch of these scammer types

769
00:59:28,526 --> 00:59:30,726
went after Quantum FUD last fall?

770
00:59:30,886 --> 00:59:32,626
No, I don't think that was genuine and honest

771
00:59:32,626 --> 00:59:33,546
and I don't believe them.

772
00:59:34,766 --> 00:59:38,206
But I really don't fucking mind where it ended up

773
00:59:38,206 --> 00:59:40,346
and I just don't really care.

774
00:59:40,346 --> 00:59:42,346
I don't think that they can exert

775
00:59:42,346 --> 00:59:49,446
undue influence on this. I don't think the loose coordination by, you know, Mike Schmidt organizing

776
00:59:49,446 --> 00:59:54,646
a Zoom call twice a week or probably like fucking twice a year, not twice a week, probably like

777
00:59:54,646 --> 01:00:00,166
twice a year between, you know, some lower level research guy that works for Alex Thorne at Galaxy

778
01:00:00,166 --> 01:00:06,226
and Alex is a hardcore Bitcoiner. You know, even some of the guys at Fidelity that would take this

779
01:00:06,226 --> 01:00:10,926
work on are Bitcoiners. And, you know, same thing at BlackRock. There's a couple of real Bitcoiners

780
01:00:10,926 --> 01:00:16,126
that run their internal blockchain group. And do I think they're going to be nefarious?

781
01:00:16,126 --> 01:00:20,246
I don't think it'll matter. Like 15 million isn't that much money. Like what are they

782
01:00:20,246 --> 01:00:25,686
going to do? Like force us all to like steal Satoshi's coins and pass James' dumb ass BIP?

783
01:00:25,686 --> 01:00:31,106
No, it's not going to happen. Yeah, no, I think this is a good thing as well.

784
01:00:31,106 --> 01:00:35,606
And there's no reason that any of the research that they fund will, it doesn't mean it has

785
01:00:35,606 --> 01:00:39,346
to end up in Bitcoin. And if strategy and Galaxy are going to foot the bill to do some

786
01:00:39,346 --> 01:00:43,326
novel cryptography research. I think it's a really good thing. I also think there's been a lot of

787
01:00:43,326 --> 01:00:46,746
people that were critical of Sailor for never funding developers who are now being critical

788
01:00:46,746 --> 01:00:50,826
of Sailor because he's teamed up with BlackRock to fund developers. I just don't think you can

789
01:00:50,826 --> 01:00:55,886
have it both ways. I think it's probably a good thing. I'm neutral. I don't trust anybody.

790
01:00:57,446 --> 01:01:04,766
I just don't really care. And I think there's plenty of people willing to do the research,

791
01:01:04,766 --> 01:01:10,126
especially with, again, like AI tools and being able to access cryptography papers and like

792
01:01:10,126 --> 01:01:15,246
figure things out. It's not out of reach for people without funding to do that sort of thing

793
01:01:15,246 --> 01:01:20,926
either. And as we've seen with some of the atrocious funding that's gone on for Bitcoin devs

794
01:01:20,926 --> 01:01:26,126
and protocol devs and some of the poor choices made for like who gets those grants, you know,

795
01:01:26,126 --> 01:01:30,686
just having the money available doesn't mean that that person or people are going to outperform

796
01:01:30,686 --> 01:01:32,646
people doing it for the love of the game.

797
01:01:33,686 --> 01:01:33,866
Yeah.

798
01:01:34,646 --> 01:01:37,066
Before we close out, Corey, I want to talk a little bit about Vigil.

799
01:01:37,206 --> 01:01:40,946
I was speaking to Brady and P a couple of weeks ago, and they were telling me about

800
01:01:40,946 --> 01:01:41,086
it.

801
01:01:41,126 --> 01:01:43,106
It sounds very cool, but you should let everyone know what it is.

802
01:01:43,126 --> 01:01:44,106
Yeah, it really is.

803
01:01:44,686 --> 01:01:52,066
So Vigil Protocol basically came out of the problems that we individual humans at Swan

804
01:01:52,066 --> 01:01:57,926
and all our clients kept on pointing to, which is that once you get over a certain level

805
01:01:57,926 --> 01:02:03,866
assets that's not really that high, your life financially gets pretty complicated. This is like

806
01:02:03,866 --> 01:02:10,746
the more money, more problems issue that you run into. Like over like 30 to 50 million bucks,

807
01:02:10,746 --> 01:02:15,026
you can pay for your own family office or you qualify for like ultra high net worth tier at

808
01:02:15,026 --> 01:02:18,946
Goldman or Morgan. And you kind of have a whole team handling all your shit and, you know, doing

809
01:02:18,946 --> 01:02:24,666
all the legal tax evasion and asset optimization and tax-free gifts to your kids and all that kind

810
01:02:24,666 --> 01:02:26,426
You got enough money to handle it,

811
01:02:26,506 --> 01:02:28,506
and it's worth paying like the 250 grand a year

812
01:02:28,586 --> 01:02:29,946
or whatever to get that done for you.

813
01:02:29,982 --> 01:02:33,282
anywhere between that, like one to 30 mil,

814
01:02:33,682 --> 01:02:35,262
it's just like you're on your own

815
01:02:35,262 --> 01:02:37,502
and you have this patchwork, you know,

816
01:02:37,522 --> 01:02:39,482
and basically every American suburb and city

817
01:02:39,482 --> 01:02:41,422
is just full of people with like, you know,

818
01:02:41,482 --> 01:02:44,242
their tax guy, their fucking estate lawyer,

819
01:02:44,822 --> 01:02:47,062
their insurance guy, their real estate guy,

820
01:02:47,582 --> 01:02:51,042
their FA, you know, maybe like a pocket

821
01:02:51,042 --> 01:02:53,402
for venture capital, private equity type stuff,

822
01:02:53,782 --> 01:02:55,702
investing in your friends, this, that, the other,

823
01:02:55,802 --> 01:02:57,942
like it's just, it's spread out all over the place

824
01:02:57,942 --> 01:02:59,422
plus you own all these assets and everything.

825
01:02:59,982 --> 01:03:20,742
And so having a coordination software that basically replicates what you get if you have your own family office or have your own team, but it's actually that you have the assets and that you actually have a plan of how to make sure that your family knows about them, keeps them.

826
01:03:20,922 --> 01:03:23,502
It's basically the sleep well at night.

827
01:03:23,842 --> 01:03:25,362
Go ahead and take that business trip.

828
01:03:25,642 --> 01:03:26,822
Your wife is going to be handled.

829
01:03:27,062 --> 01:03:28,262
Your kids are going to be fine.

830
01:03:28,402 --> 01:03:29,282
Take that vacation.

831
01:03:29,282 --> 01:03:36,822
Like we know, and you've actually proven to yourself because you've actually tested it and made sure that all the messages go to the right places.

832
01:03:37,662 --> 01:03:43,802
And it's family financial orchestration for people with complicated financial lives.

833
01:03:44,042 --> 01:03:48,322
I think it's targeted at kind of like the 80th to the 99th percentile, basically.

834
01:03:48,702 --> 01:03:50,242
And it's U.S. only for now.

835
01:03:50,242 --> 01:04:02,202
So it is, I think it's the number two source of anxiety for families outside of where to store your wealth, which I think a lot of us handle with Bitcoin.

836
01:04:02,782 --> 01:04:03,502
We figured that one out.

837
01:04:03,662 --> 01:04:04,122
That's Bitcoin.

838
01:04:04,122 --> 01:04:08,842
And then how do you make sure that your family is going to be taken care of and you have it all coordinated?

839
01:04:09,642 --> 01:04:25,617
And none of these point solution providers that serve these families is willing to kind of take on all of that across the others They all kind of peers and they hang out at the Chamber of Commerce and you know coach Little League or whatever And they spend 60 of their time on BD

840
01:04:25,777 --> 01:04:28,337
So they're not really like super up to speed on the new laws,

841
01:04:28,417 --> 01:04:29,837
new regulations, like the best things.

842
01:04:30,237 --> 01:04:32,177
Even really good accountants like fuck up my taxes.

843
01:04:33,057 --> 01:04:35,877
Even like big name firms in Century City with skyscrapers

844
01:04:35,877 --> 01:04:37,417
have fucked up my taxes like bad,

845
01:04:37,417 --> 01:04:39,657
especially when you're dealing with like Bitcoin and, you know,

846
01:04:39,717 --> 01:04:40,817
venture and stuff like that.

847
01:04:40,977 --> 01:04:44,697
So I think actually, I'd say the biggest thing,

848
01:04:44,697 --> 01:04:50,817
So portfolio management software like Mint, personal capital, stuff like that basically pulls in your balances from all these different accounts.

849
01:04:51,257 --> 01:04:51,997
It's not that.

850
01:04:52,257 --> 01:05:02,577
This is you actually upload like the 200 page will and like the full insurance contract and the full deed and like literally all of the actual paperwork.

851
01:05:02,577 --> 01:05:05,877
and it actually audits that and pulls out the real fields

852
01:05:05,877 --> 01:05:08,057
and tells you what's what and what's missing

853
01:05:08,057 --> 01:05:11,697
and what is done better in other similar documents

854
01:05:11,697 --> 01:05:14,917
out there and helps you get the whole thing in order.

855
01:05:15,077 --> 01:05:16,417
So you go through that process,

856
01:05:16,977 --> 01:05:18,517
you know, you or you with your spouse,

857
01:05:18,517 --> 01:05:20,957
and you actually know for the first time

858
01:05:20,957 --> 01:05:22,557
that you actually have it handled

859
01:05:22,557 --> 01:05:23,917
and you can prove it to yourself

860
01:05:23,917 --> 01:05:27,677
and you can remove that second biggest source

861
01:05:27,677 --> 01:05:28,857
of financial anxiety.

862
01:05:30,197 --> 01:05:32,137
It's weird because now I'm like thinking,

863
01:05:32,137 --> 01:05:40,977
And, you know, so much of what we do is just kind of removing stress from our own lives.

864
01:05:41,377 --> 01:05:43,257
And that's what Bitcoin has done for me.

865
01:05:43,377 --> 01:05:46,257
And now the other thing that I really needed in my life was Vigil.

866
01:05:46,897 --> 01:05:53,417
So, you know, broadly, I think the mission of the company is to like reduce divorce rates and SSRI prescriptions.

867
01:05:55,997 --> 01:05:56,717
Let's go.

868
01:05:57,057 --> 01:05:58,917
We need to open this up outside of America.

869
01:05:59,197 --> 01:06:00,377
I need access to this.

870
01:06:00,377 --> 01:06:05,217
The big question that I'm sure everyone would have on this is with AI, obviously,

871
01:06:05,217 --> 01:06:16,551
you don want to be uploading a ton of financial documents if you don know where they going Is this presumably completely secure and private It in like you know super super locked locker within AWS and Azure with multiple levels of

872
01:06:16,551 --> 01:06:22,291
controls. I mean, it's, we're a company that's secured PII and the only kind of value, more

873
01:06:22,291 --> 01:06:27,191
valuable information than financial information is a digital asset itself. And obviously we've

874
01:06:27,191 --> 01:06:31,671
secured that very well. So yeah, you don't want to via code this thing. This is not the kind of

875
01:06:31,671 --> 01:06:36,111
thing that like two dudes in Germany can copy and like come out with because they'll get you

876
01:06:36,111 --> 01:06:40,551
wrecked if they don't have a real security infrastructure and team. Half our freaking

877
01:06:40,551 --> 01:06:47,091
eng team is basically security. Yeah, that's awesome. I think that's a really cool product

878
01:06:47,091 --> 01:06:51,051
and something that's definitely needed. I think maybe particularly needed for Bitcoiners because

879
01:06:51,051 --> 01:06:56,051
I don't know, a lot of people that came in here don't have experience with this. Like I didn't,

880
01:06:56,191 --> 01:07:01,211
I certainly didn't. And this would be a very useful tool. Corey, before we close out, can you

881
01:07:01,211 --> 01:07:06,791
give everyone a closing rallying cry get the vibes going let's get let's kill this bear look

882
01:07:06,791 --> 01:07:14,711
what i'll say is i think that there is a there's a common theme usually here in the media i get

883
01:07:14,711 --> 01:07:19,671
asked all the time from the the you know msm sources and then you also always hear it from

884
01:07:19,671 --> 01:07:24,591
the bankers uh and they're always looking for a narrative they're saying like what narrative is

885
01:07:24,591 --> 01:07:30,311
going to spur the next bull market and i've posted about this they have it asked backwards

886
01:07:30,311 --> 01:07:32,311
actually price drives the narrative.

887
01:07:32,611 --> 01:07:34,251
And as soon as price starts going up,

888
01:07:34,291 --> 01:07:36,771
which is just a matter of having more buyers than sellers,

889
01:07:36,951 --> 01:07:38,511
and it's basically just putting in a floor

890
01:07:38,511 --> 01:07:40,711
and recruiting more people into Bitcoin,

891
01:07:41,131 --> 01:07:42,551
and we'll turn this thing around,

892
01:07:43,231 --> 01:07:44,871
there's plenty of bullish narratives.

893
01:07:45,391 --> 01:07:46,851
We've had 100 bullish narratives

894
01:07:46,851 --> 01:07:49,231
from the last nine months since the ATH,

895
01:07:50,011 --> 01:07:53,611
and they're all worthy of spurring a bull market.

896
01:07:54,351 --> 01:08:06,766
There plenty of bullish things out there from institutional adoption to great things that have happened here there or the other Legislation you know more adoption more products more loans lower rates on and on and on

897
01:08:06,846 --> 01:08:08,426
Like there's plenty of good things out there.

898
01:08:08,946 --> 01:08:13,006
So I just don't, I don't think we need a new narrative.

899
01:08:13,446 --> 01:08:16,806
I think we just need to, you know, buy the bear,

900
01:08:17,766 --> 01:08:20,866
buy it up, turn it around, smash it,

901
01:08:20,966 --> 01:08:23,886
take advantage of those 50-bit buys.

902
01:08:23,886 --> 01:08:31,346
and you know if you're if you have any inclination to be one of those people that you know wants to

903
01:08:31,346 --> 01:08:37,166
be the admiral or just go stand next to the admiral and and be a leader through osmosis and

904
01:08:37,166 --> 01:08:45,146
and do it like you know plan the mission get on the mission stay on the mission and and win

905
01:08:45,146 --> 01:08:50,706
you know and and whatever you can do i just think this is a really fun moment in time like it's it's

906
01:08:50,706 --> 01:08:55,366
not cool to wear a Bitcoin shirt and hat when you're at an all time high because there's

907
01:08:55,366 --> 01:08:57,826
a bunch of douchebags doing the same thing and they just got it right.

908
01:08:57,826 --> 01:09:01,266
Like it's fucking cool to rock Bitcoin gear in the bear.

909
01:09:01,486 --> 01:09:05,346
And it's cool to be pumping Bitcoin and telling people to buy it now.

910
01:09:05,486 --> 01:09:09,086
Like this is actually the most fun time to buy because then you get to win with your friends.

911
01:09:11,666 --> 01:09:12,366
Let's go.

912
01:09:12,466 --> 01:09:13,026
I love it, Corey.

913
01:09:13,106 --> 01:09:14,866
I'm glad you're bringing the vibes back.

914
01:09:15,026 --> 01:09:16,306
I'm glad Cafe Bitcoin's back.

915
01:09:16,926 --> 01:09:18,346
This show is going to go out on Monday.

916
01:09:18,346 --> 01:09:21,306
Tuesday is my chance.

917
01:09:21,586 --> 01:09:22,826
Let me come on Cafe Bitcoin.

918
01:09:23,106 --> 01:09:24,326
It's going to be my last day in the US

919
01:09:24,326 --> 01:09:25,786
and it's the last time I'm on the time zone.

920
01:09:25,926 --> 01:09:27,086
So yeah, let's do it.

921
01:09:27,286 --> 01:09:28,306
But I appreciate you, man.

922
01:09:28,346 --> 01:09:28,926
This has been awesome.

923
01:09:29,866 --> 01:09:30,906
Thank you for everything you're doing.

924
01:09:31,066 --> 01:09:32,626
Since people are listening to this on Monday,

925
01:09:32,726 --> 01:09:33,426
I'll see you tomorrow.

926
01:09:48,346 --> 01:10:18,326
Thank you.