1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,060
The root of the problem is that the money, how money is created and how it's distributed

2
00:00:08,060 --> 00:00:09,560
throughout the economy.

3
00:00:09,660 --> 00:00:11,320
It has externalities on everything.

4
00:00:11,820 --> 00:00:17,440
Bitcoin can be a means to an end, but it's how do you convince people that this is the

5
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:18,800
right means to the right end?

6
00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,540
If you own Bitcoin and you have it self-custodied, it's yours.

7
00:00:22,980 --> 00:00:26,820
It's going to be your way out of this dystopian hellhole that's probably going to get produced.

8
00:00:26,820 --> 00:00:33,860
The point of uncensorable cypherpunk money is to be uncensorable and allow for anyone anywhere to use it for whatever they want.

9
00:00:34,300 --> 00:00:38,380
If you're worried about the state doing stuff, like, get the fuck out of it.

10
00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,320
Like, I don't know what you're doing here.

11
00:00:40,500 --> 00:00:43,040
I don't understand why you're interested in this project.

12
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:52,640
You should just kind of bluntly assume your favorite Bitcoin developer is probably an intelligence asset just because that's the model.

13
00:00:52,640 --> 00:01:02,220
If you're a Bitcoiner who believes in freedom, you have to tread lightly as you walk through the valley of the shadow of death because you are beset on all sides by enemies.

14
00:01:05,340 --> 00:01:07,860
Eric, Hoddle, Marty, good to see you guys.

15
00:01:07,980 --> 00:01:12,500
I thought I wanted to get a show out for Bitcoin White Paper Day, 17 years since the white paper dropped.

16
00:01:12,780 --> 00:01:13,660
This is going to go out on Friday.

17
00:01:14,420 --> 00:01:15,600
Marty, this is your first time on the show, though.

18
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:16,120
Welcome, man.

19
00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:18,240
It's great to be here.

20
00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,460
I was on the previous iteration of what Bitcoin did, but never this one.

21
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:28,280
Yeah, we tried to make it work in Austin when I was there a few months ago, but here we are anyway.

22
00:01:29,060 --> 00:01:34,480
But 17 years since the white paper dropped, you guys have all been in Bitcoin for like a long time.

23
00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,560
Eric, I think probably you've been in the longest.

24
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:38,740
I just want to get a bit of a reflection on this.

25
00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:44,080
Like when you look back at what Bitcoin's done over the last 17 years, like how do you take it in?

26
00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,080
It's gone from being like worth literally zero.

27
00:01:46,340 --> 00:01:52,200
You get it free like faucets and you could mine it on your home laptop to being like a $2 trillion asset.

28
00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,900
that's very sort of geopolitically relevant?

29
00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:56,260
How do you take all that in?

30
00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:58,720
Yeah, I remember when you used to be able to get like

31
00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:00,720
hundreds of Bitcoin from a faucet.

32
00:02:01,180 --> 00:02:05,760
I mean, it's like I took acid and it never wore off.

33
00:02:05,940 --> 00:02:09,540
It's just like I'm like perpetually in this insane trip of a journey.

34
00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:11,480
And like it's super blessed and amazing.

35
00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:13,440
I mean, when I first discovered Bitcoin,

36
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,340
there was very little outside of the Bitcoin talk forms

37
00:02:17,340 --> 00:02:18,160
that were available.

38
00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,180
Yeah, and it was like a batshit crazy idea.

39
00:02:21,180 --> 00:02:27,260
and uh it's funny because like i don't feel like there's as much of the like you like smoked you

40
00:02:27,260 --> 00:02:32,960
like smoke the bitcoin crack sort of effect that like people used to have because like some of the

41
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:37,460
other early psychopaths that i met like they they would be like yeah i like when it clicked for me

42
00:02:37,460 --> 00:02:42,900
like i couldn't sleep for days on end i like lost a bunch of weight it was you know like i really got

43
00:02:42,900 --> 00:02:48,840
what it was uh and so now that it's like actually achieving what it set out to be it's it's a very

44
00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,680
strange and ethereal journey, but I feel

45
00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,960
immensely blessed that I saw

46
00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:54,880
what it was, that it seems to be

47
00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:56,460
doing what we wanted to.

48
00:02:56,700 --> 00:02:58,820
And we're also at this very interesting inflection

49
00:02:58,820 --> 00:03:00,820
point where it seems

50
00:03:00,820 --> 00:03:02,980
like Banker Bitcoin and Sucoin

51
00:03:02,980 --> 00:03:04,480
is actually giving

52
00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,260
Cypherpunk Vision

53
00:03:06,260 --> 00:03:08,220
a bit of a run for its money

54
00:03:08,220 --> 00:03:09,740
at this point in time.

55
00:03:11,100 --> 00:03:12,780
So I don't know. I feel really great

56
00:03:12,780 --> 00:03:14,680
about what it's accomplished, but

57
00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:16,760
I'm deeply concerned about the lack

58
00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:18,360
of pedagogical approach about

59
00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:24,340
like the point of uncensorable cypherpunk money is to be uncensorable and allow for anyone anywhere

60
00:03:24,340 --> 00:03:29,740
to use it for whatever they want. And that's its technical purpose. And so seeing a lot of people

61
00:03:29,740 --> 00:03:35,200
just cheering on number go up repeatedly, I do find a bit alarming. But with that being said,

62
00:03:35,420 --> 00:03:41,420
Bitcoin's magnitude beyond anything I could have imagined in my wildest dreams. So like I feel

63
00:03:41,420 --> 00:03:46,220
deeply blessed that the vision is out there in the world and it offers a radical new kind of

64
00:03:46,220 --> 00:03:51,360
hope to most people. I'd just like to get back to sort of a lot of insane stuff that me and

65
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:57,680
HODL first connected around, like in sort of the 2020-2021 cycle, where it was much more about

66
00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:02,680
the spiritual awakening of Bitcoin, as opposed to that we're all just going to get rich and drive

67
00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:07,580
Ferraris. Do you think that's just like a consequence of scale, though? And not everyone's

68
00:04:07,580 --> 00:04:12,420
going to get Bitcoin in that way? Because I'm with you. I got into Bitcoin later than you. But even

69
00:04:12,420 --> 00:04:16,120
when I did like the from the day I first heard about Bitcoin there's probably not been a single

70
00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:20,240
day since that I've not read about it like tried to learn about it want to go further and further

71
00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:25,100
down that rabbit hole but like as this scales not everyone's going to be like that yeah and I do

72
00:04:25,100 --> 00:04:29,860
think that's part of the consequence I also think that like uh sort of the the crazier more radical

73
00:04:29,860 --> 00:04:34,040
voices are getting drowned out of it and like I I sort of think it's time for us to redouble into

74
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,560
our own insane journey because like my deepest frustration now when I talk to people I'm like

75
00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,100
oh I'm a Bitcoin and they're like oh crypto I'm like no if you ever say that again I'm gonna smack

76
00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:47,160
it right out of your fucking mouth um and i'm very pedantic i'm like if you don't understand the

77
00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,740
difference between bitcoin and crypto you don't understand either and you're going to get scammed

78
00:04:50,740 --> 00:04:55,660
for the latter as opposed to actually getting the true cause of what the former is and like

79
00:04:55,660 --> 00:05:03,160
so bitcoin has a real opportunity to free us from the endemic rot that like is the fiat system uh

80
00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:09,240
drive people around me crazy by like constantly commenting on the societal ills that fiat has

81
00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:14,960
created and and you can just see that metastasizing effect across society and at this point in america

82
00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:20,160
like i i highly expect the next five years it's fascism or communism it's like one of the two

83
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:25,220
choices and that's just a result of a broken money system and it's really interesting to like

84
00:05:25,220 --> 00:05:31,460
watch america become like the we mayer remix so it's like 2030s you know and like that's what

85
00:05:31,460 --> 00:05:36,900
we're gonna get and uh it's pretty scary because also like the the communists have like a very

86
00:05:36,900 --> 00:05:42,120
strong argument now of like yeah fuck it like let's just seize the boomers property redistribute

87
00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,940
to the youth because like they fucked us over we'll never fucking touch social security we'll

88
00:05:46,940 --> 00:05:51,940
never get entitlements they're just handing out willy-nilly medicare to everyone except for the

89
00:05:51,940 --> 00:05:57,560
youth so yeah like fuck it let's just have a full-on communist party start seizing wealth

90
00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:03,100
across the board start executing vcs it'll work great and at that point that's when you get

91
00:06:03,100 --> 00:06:06,720
somebody in the far right being like hey they're gonna kill all you guys if you don't give me

92
00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:12,160
radical power so you can either sign up here or get executed by the communists which one

93
00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:21,120
this uh this is funny you're bringing this up because this aligns very much in my early bitcoin

94
00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:26,560
story back in like 2013 i got pushed over the edge i was like really into bitcoin it's funny

95
00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:33,180
this uh this is the philadelphia inquire uh headline from october 31st 2008 when the white

96
00:06:33,180 --> 00:06:38,000
paper dropped while we're here to meet this. I was 17 years old, running around the streets of

97
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,040
Philadelphia after the Phillies won the World Series. Great financial crisis was happening.

98
00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:47,960
I went to college with no enemy mentality, but to your point, Eric, what really pushed me over the

99
00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:53,180
edge is I worked for this Russian immigrant. He immigrated to the United States in the 90s.

100
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,940
And I'll never forget this one portfolio management meeting we had. We sat down and

101
00:06:58,940 --> 00:07:03,420
ended up just being me and him. His name was Dimitri. In the room, we were talking about TSA

102
00:07:03,420 --> 00:07:08,300
and civil liberties and stuff like that. And he typically, during our meetings, he would just look

103
00:07:08,300 --> 00:07:12,180
at his computer. He was a quant and he'd have all this stuff up. And he like turned from his computer

104
00:07:12,180 --> 00:07:15,820
and looked at me. When we were talking about the TSA, he was like, Marty, I want to tell you a

105
00:07:15,820 --> 00:07:21,680
story. The first time I immigrated here, I'll never forget in 1994, the first time I walked

106
00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:26,340
through an airport in the United States, I cried because I'd never felt that amount of freedom.

107
00:07:26,340 --> 00:07:49,580
And I want to warn you as a young 22 year old man that the U.S. is turning into the Soviet Russia I ran away from. And that was in like 2013, maybe early 2014. And I was learning about Bitcoin at the time. But just reflecting on America and not necessarily Bitcoin since then, like, yeah, it's definitely gone down that trajectory towards over communism.

108
00:07:49,580 --> 00:07:54,280
and really why I went full bore into Bitcoin in the first place.

109
00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,420
It was like, this thing is separate from that.

110
00:07:56,540 --> 00:07:58,900
I need to focus my attention on this.

111
00:07:59,100 --> 00:07:59,180
Yeah.

112
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,140
Just reflecting on the whole thing,

113
00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:06,240
I remember being deeply affected by the great financial crisis,

114
00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:07,360
just like Marty.

115
00:08:08,620 --> 00:08:11,260
I have a friend, Jenseth, who says that you didn't get to Bitcoin

116
00:08:11,260 --> 00:08:12,000
because you're so smart.

117
00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:13,360
You got here because you were a young man

118
00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,180
who had stupid ideas about the government,

119
00:08:15,340 --> 00:08:16,360
which I certainly embodied.

120
00:08:16,980 --> 00:08:19,560
I was in high school writing papers about seasteading

121
00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:20,500
and things like that.

122
00:08:21,260 --> 00:08:23,260
And my daughter's walking through.

123
00:08:23,420 --> 00:08:24,000
Hi, sweetie.

124
00:08:24,220 --> 00:08:24,600
Can you go?

125
00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:25,280
Can you go to the church?

126
00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:25,840
Thank you.

127
00:08:27,460 --> 00:08:28,620
And so anyway,

128
00:08:28,740 --> 00:08:30,920
I was ideologically predisposed

129
00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:32,340
to be a crazy libertarian person.

130
00:08:32,340 --> 00:08:33,360
And then you find Bitcoin

131
00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:33,800
and you're like,

132
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:35,620
well, shit, here it is.

133
00:08:35,620 --> 00:08:36,800
The thing we've been waiting for.

134
00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:37,660
We don't have to be

135
00:08:37,660 --> 00:08:38,880
loser libertarians anymore.

136
00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:40,380
We're going to be rich libertarians

137
00:08:40,380 --> 00:08:42,880
who affect the world

138
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:43,700
in a positive way.

139
00:08:43,780 --> 00:08:44,060
And actually,

140
00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,880
maybe we can get towards

141
00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:47,700
anarcho-capitalism

142
00:08:47,700 --> 00:08:49,160
because Bitcoin is solving

143
00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,180
a problem, right? It's not just us complaining or doing rhetoric against the system. Like,

144
00:08:53,380 --> 00:08:57,820
we actually are solving a problem. And the problem is, like, people used to say in the early days of

145
00:08:57,820 --> 00:09:03,520
Bitcoin, it had no killer app. And it's like, the killer app is prosperity. You know, prosperity is

146
00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,480
the killer app. And every single person on earth wants that. And when you talk about this political

147
00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:12,140
fight that's happening now between the commies and, you know, the fascists, and I was just listening

148
00:09:12,140 --> 00:09:17,040
to, like, Fuentes on Tucker Carlson, and he throws in there as this, like, sort of casual aside that he

149
00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:21,780
admires joseph stalin and it's like and it just gets brushed brushed right by it it's like

150
00:09:21,780 --> 00:09:28,480
okay both of these the luigi mangioni left the groipers everyone's an economic populist and

151
00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:35,920
economic populism is rising and i think that we as the bitcoiners are like which is weird because

152
00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:41,060
we're the people who are from the island of misfit toys we're the weirdos we are now occupying the

153
00:09:41,060 --> 00:09:43,260
sane, like, middle ground.

154
00:09:43,380 --> 00:09:44,940
Like, we are the rational center

155
00:09:44,940 --> 00:09:47,080
and saying, hey, guys,

156
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,400
like, maybe it's not

157
00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,260
we need to kill all the immigrants

158
00:09:51,260 --> 00:09:52,540
and maybe it's not

159
00:09:52,540 --> 00:09:53,680
we need to kill everybody

160
00:09:53,680 --> 00:09:55,040
with more than a million dollars.

161
00:09:55,540 --> 00:09:57,920
Maybe it's we need a money

162
00:09:57,920 --> 00:09:59,220
that can't be corrupted.

163
00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:00,640
And oh, by the way,

164
00:10:00,660 --> 00:10:02,700
we're a broad, multi-diverse,

165
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,640
multi-racial, multi-ethnic,

166
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:05,900
multi-religious coalition

167
00:10:05,900 --> 00:10:06,860
of young people

168
00:10:06,860 --> 00:10:08,380
who have all seen a better,

169
00:10:08,540 --> 00:10:09,580
brighter, orangier future.

170
00:10:09,580 --> 00:10:11,920
and like, join us, you know?

171
00:10:12,100 --> 00:10:16,160
And that's crazy, but it gets less crazy every day.

172
00:10:16,620 --> 00:10:18,380
Less, you know, the alternative,

173
00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:20,280
like the mainstream political alternatives

174
00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,400
are so much fucking crazier than what I just said.

175
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,060
Like magic internet money, join us.

176
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:26,560
You know what I mean?

177
00:10:26,580 --> 00:10:28,220
A man in a stupid wizard hat.

178
00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,220
Like that's way more sane than what's going on

179
00:10:32,220 --> 00:10:33,540
on the left or the right.

180
00:10:33,980 --> 00:10:35,780
What Bitcoin Did is brought to you

181
00:10:35,780 --> 00:10:37,440
by the massive legends, Iron.

182
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,720
the largest Nasdaq listed Bitcoin miner using 100% renewable energy.

183
00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:44,200
IREN are not just powering the Bitcoin network,

184
00:10:44,420 --> 00:10:47,480
they're also providing cutting-edge computing resources for AI,

185
00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:48,980
all backed by renewable energy.

186
00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,480
We've been working with their founders Dan and Will for quite some time now

187
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,200
and have been really impressed with their values,

188
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,100
especially their commitment to local communities and sustainable computing power.

189
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,860
So whether you're interested in mining Bitcoin or harnessing AI compute power,

190
00:11:02,060 --> 00:11:03,060
IREN is setting the standard.

191
00:11:03,060 --> 00:11:09,980
visit iron.com to learn more which is i-r-e-n.com if you already self-custody of bitcoin you know

192
00:11:09,980 --> 00:11:14,480
the deal with hardware wallets complex setups clumsy interfaces and a seed phrase that can

193
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:20,260
be lost stolen or forgotten well bitkey fixes that bitkey is a multi-sig hardware wallet built

194
00:11:20,260 --> 00:11:25,080
by the team behind square and cash app it packs a cryptographic recovery system and built-in

195
00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,820
inheritance feature into an intuitive easy to use wallet with no seed phrase to sweat over

196
00:11:30,460 --> 00:11:33,460
It's simple, secure self-custody without the stress.

197
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,020
And time named BitKey one of the best inventions of 2024.

198
00:11:37,980 --> 00:11:41,680
Get 20% off at bitkey.world when you use the code WBD.

199
00:11:42,220 --> 00:11:47,020
That's B-I-T-K-E-Y dot world and use the code WBD.

200
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,520
This episode is brought to you by Anchor Watch.

201
00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:54,180
The thing that keeps me up at night is the idea of a critical error with my Bitcoin cold storage.

202
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:56,060
And this is where Anchor Watch comes in.

203
00:11:56,060 --> 00:12:01,460
With AnchorWatch, your Bitcoin is insured with your own A-plus rated Lloyds of London insurance policy

204
00:12:01,460 --> 00:12:04,880
and all Bitcoin is held in their time-locked multi-sig vaults.

205
00:12:05,220 --> 00:12:08,720
So you have the peace of mind knowing your Bitcoin is insured while not giving up custody.

206
00:12:09,260 --> 00:12:14,480
So whether you're worried about inheritance planning, wrench attacks, natural disasters or just your own silly mistakes,

207
00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:16,200
you're protected by AnchorWatch.

208
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,740
Rates for fully insured custody start as low as 0.55%

209
00:12:19,740 --> 00:12:23,820
and are available for individual and commercial customers located in the US.

210
00:12:23,820 --> 00:12:28,600
speak to anchor watch for a quote and for more details about your security options and coverage

211
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:34,760
visit anchor watch.com today that is anchor watch.com marty i want to go back to something you said

212
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:40,540
before like you were talking about the us basically trending towards soviet russia um if that's

213
00:12:40,540 --> 00:12:44,440
happening the uk and australia and other places around the world are definitely front-running the

214
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:49,740
us in that sense um do you think bitcoin can actually stop that or or is bitcoin just an opt

215
00:12:49,740 --> 00:12:55,380
out so you don't have to be involved in it i don't think bitcoin in and of itself can really

216
00:12:55,380 --> 00:13:01,300
stop anything it's really up to individuals adopting bitcoin and using it to stop it and i

217
00:13:01,300 --> 00:13:08,120
think obviously the four of us here um are pretty much well on our way to trying to do that i think

218
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,020
hodl to your point and i think it's the one thing i've been reflecting on

219
00:13:12,020 --> 00:13:14,740
a lot in the recent,

220
00:13:14,980 --> 00:13:16,740
well, in the last year is,

221
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:19,980
okay, like how can we sharpen the messaging

222
00:13:19,980 --> 00:13:22,020
to really get through to people?

223
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:22,740
Like you're saying,

224
00:13:22,780 --> 00:13:24,360
we have the crazy left and the crazy right,

225
00:13:24,460 --> 00:13:26,800
and they're all somehow missing

226
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,240
that there's a third option

227
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:29,460
or another option.

228
00:13:29,580 --> 00:13:30,540
Maybe there's more than three.

229
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:31,800
With Bitcoin,

230
00:13:32,100 --> 00:13:34,000
where the root of the problem is that

231
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,400
the money,

232
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:37,780
how money is created

233
00:13:37,780 --> 00:13:38,660
and how it's distributed

234
00:13:38,660 --> 00:13:40,160
throughout the economy.

235
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:41,940
It has externalities on everything.

236
00:13:42,020 --> 00:13:43,980
we touch in the economy.

237
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,040
It's like Bitcoin can be a means to an end,

238
00:13:47,140 --> 00:13:49,000
but it's how do you convince people

239
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,420
that this is the right means to the right end?

240
00:13:51,780 --> 00:13:54,820
And that's something that I think a lot about these days.

241
00:13:55,460 --> 00:13:56,780
And Hodel, like you were saying

242
00:13:56,780 --> 00:13:58,760
that prosperity is the killer app,

243
00:13:58,860 --> 00:14:01,580
and that kind of goes against what Eric was saying,

244
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:03,480
because you're basically saying number go up

245
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:04,620
is the thing we need right now,

246
00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:06,520
so Bitcoins get wealthy and can, I guess,

247
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:07,740
change the world themselves.

248
00:14:09,220 --> 00:14:11,420
Do you think we are sacrificing things

249
00:14:11,420 --> 00:14:12,360
for number go up right now?

250
00:14:14,660 --> 00:14:15,760
Yeah, there's a tension.

251
00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:17,000
I mean, listen, just to be honest,

252
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,300
yeah, there's a tension between censorship resistance

253
00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:20,320
and number go up.

254
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,820
And I've long had this sort of view

255
00:14:22,820 --> 00:14:24,560
that Bitcoin is going to have to walk

256
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,880
through sort of a period of like,

257
00:14:26,940 --> 00:14:29,900
you know, purgatory, essentially.

258
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:31,760
Like that there's going to be like a shadow,

259
00:14:32,180 --> 00:14:33,720
you know, co-option of Bitcoin

260
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,960
where it kind of looks like Bitcoin has been cucked

261
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:38,660
and then Bitcoin explodes out the other side.

262
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,940
Now, maybe that's like a defeatist viewpoint

263
00:14:40,940 --> 00:14:44,160
and people are like, oh, you can't give in because, you know, but I think that

264
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:49,300
if you're thinking about these things as two super organisms like Bitcoin and the traditional

265
00:14:49,300 --> 00:14:55,340
financial system, I think Bitcoin is a pathogen that eats the host. And so I think if we put

266
00:14:55,340 --> 00:15:00,140
Bitcoin into the traditional financial system, I think it will overtake the traditional financial

267
00:15:00,140 --> 00:15:05,540
system over time. And I don't know that the idea of Bitcoin being outside money is Bitcoin's

268
00:15:05,540 --> 00:15:09,620
ultimate destiny because in order to get where it's going, it has to pass through the traditional

269
00:15:09,620 --> 00:15:15,480
system, I think. So like, you know, you see this throughout history, like, you know, Christianity

270
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:21,920
subsumes Rome, and I think Bitcoin subsumes like the modern state, the fiat state. And that's a

271
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:26,020
long arduous journey that like, if you're a Bitcoiner who believes in freedom, like you have

272
00:15:26,020 --> 00:15:31,560
to tread lightly as you walk through the valley of the shadow of death, because you are beset on

273
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,680
all sides by enemies. You know, that's just the way it is. We've chosen the hardest path on the

274
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:40,120
table, basically. It's a lot easier to join up and say, I'm going to be a far right populist,

275
00:15:40,140 --> 00:15:43,640
or I'm going to be a far left populist. Bitcoiners are trying to walk the middle path,

276
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,660
and it's difficult. Yeah. I want to know what you think about that,

277
00:15:46,660 --> 00:15:52,900
Eric, because with the way people interact with Bitcoin now, it's like KYC, AML exchanges,

278
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:58,020
there's treasury companies, ETF, the institutionalization of Bitcoin. That is the

279
00:15:58,020 --> 00:16:02,760
area that I have some concern, not a great deal of concern in, but some degree of concern in.

280
00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:07,500
Like, do you think Bitcoin's strong enough to go through that and make out the other side, like HODL's saying?

281
00:16:07,580 --> 00:16:09,440
Or do you think we risk losing something along the way?

282
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:15,480
Yeah, it's kind of interesting because, like, I feel like this is always the game Bitcoin's playing with the Trojan horse thing.

283
00:16:15,700 --> 00:16:19,220
And so, like, I feel like we're at the place where, like, they've brought the horse into Troy.

284
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,020
They've all had their great celebration.

285
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:31,560
And I think, like, now we essentially need to see a bunch of shit blow up internally inside of the financial system and watch kind of the general wealthy and elite flee to Bitcoin.

286
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,060
And that's sort of them like opening the gates of Troy and fleeing.

287
00:16:35,260 --> 00:16:37,440
And then it's like, oh, look, the Aegeans are outside.

288
00:16:38,580 --> 00:16:50,820
With that being said, maybe like this is more on to us as I felt back in like the 2021 era, I felt like we had a really strong narrative about how Bitcoin was going to fuck up this system and empower people.

289
00:16:51,340 --> 00:17:00,520
But really, like I kind of think like stealing from Lenin's playbook, like we essentially need a deep class consciousness awakening.

290
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,920
and there needs to be a pedagogical approach that explains how fiat money has destroyed society

291
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:10,760
because i i find it very interesting that everyone sees how absolutely fucked up everything is and

292
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:16,240
usually they take a right left paradigm in order to describe that and like particularly being here

293
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,180
in like the liberal hub of the world like i'm extremely pedantic with my liberal friends about

294
00:17:20,180 --> 00:17:26,720
like you like we have this like no kings bullshit going on here about uh like trump trying to like

295
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:31,740
do gerrymandering. And I'm just like, come on, how much of a bozo do you have to be to see that

296
00:17:31,740 --> 00:17:37,760
they're doing gerrymandering for the left and that somebody like Nancy Pelosi is now worth $100

297
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:42,680
million despite being a career politician? You don't think that that is from pure and utter

298
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:48,300
corruption and that at least people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are being direct about how

299
00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:54,240
they want to make money. Nancy Pelosi is a pure parasite insofar that she literally engages in

300
00:17:54,240 --> 00:18:00,520
insider trading, robs the American public by making backdoor deals with some of the most

301
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:06,420
disgusting people and ideas that there could be. And yet somehow you find yourself cheering for her

302
00:18:06,420 --> 00:18:11,920
and her side. You really need to look deeper into what's going on if you actually want to liberate

303
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:17,440
yourself. And I have a great answer for you, but it's going to require some real thought on your

304
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:22,120
part and really actually wondering whether or not you've become a useful idiot for people that hate

305
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:27,000
you and want to abuse you and steal from you because i do have an answer but it's going to

306
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:33,000
require you to do some real thought and actually start start in the process of unwinding the very

307
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:38,360
deep brainwashing that most people have gone through and some people receive it some people

308
00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:43,120
don't but at the end of the day like and this is why i've kind of uh lightly flirted with the idea

309
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:48,940
about an orange party is that like my idea is we essentially need a radical central orange party

310
00:18:48,940 --> 00:18:54,080
that's in the middle that advocates for these very middle of the road, normal things and in

311
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:59,040
the process needs to absolutely fucking lamb blast anybody on the right or left and be like

312
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:03,620
the Democrats and Republicans are the enemies. They've destroyed our fucking country. And when

313
00:19:03,620 --> 00:19:07,740
we come to power, every single federal representative will be put on trial for

314
00:19:07,740 --> 00:19:13,300
treason. And when they're found guilty, they will be hung according to American law because that like

315
00:19:13,300 --> 00:19:18,120
that's what they did. They engaged in outright fucking treason. They never expected themselves

316
00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:18,860
to be held accountable.

317
00:19:18,860 --> 00:19:21,360
And I want to see them hung from public gallows

318
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:24,160
when it becomes very clear that they sold us up the street

319
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,860
to the Chinese for like, what, $20,000 maybe?

320
00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:29,840
Like that's the other thing that's outrageous

321
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,780
is the amount of money that they're prostituting us for

322
00:19:32,780 --> 00:19:34,560
is fucking pennies on the dollar.

323
00:19:35,180 --> 00:19:38,860
And with that being said, this establishment is so corrupt.

324
00:19:38,860 --> 00:19:41,760
I don't see why we can't just ram through state legislatures

325
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:46,100
because what, to buy something to pass any state legislature,

326
00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:50,180
It's going to cost maybe $50,000 to get converts on the right side.

327
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,720
And as you populize a movement like this, you just strong arm everybody because it's

328
00:19:54,720 --> 00:20:01,560
clear that these geriatrics are completely spineless individuals, that the moment that

329
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,020
you start putting real pressure on them and being very clear that this is the direction

330
00:20:05,020 --> 00:20:07,260
it's going and this isn't about money anymore.

331
00:20:07,380 --> 00:20:10,540
This is actually about whether or not they're going to live at the end of this.

332
00:20:10,980 --> 00:20:12,120
Yeah, they'll collapse.

333
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,720
But again, this is a very radical viewpoint that I'm establishing.

334
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,440
So if anybody wants to take this and run with it, please feel free.

335
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,040
I don't think it needed that disclaimer.

336
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,260
But what kind of legislative do you want to push through?

337
00:20:23,460 --> 00:20:24,800
Because you're the anarchist.

338
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,380
Why do you want this to go through the government rails?

339
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:30,380
Excellent question.

340
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,040
I want to go through state government rails because in the United States, we have the

341
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,240
ability to amend the Constitution using state legislations alone.

342
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,700
There's been a number of amendments to the U.S. Constitution that have gotten pretty close.

343
00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:51,620
And I'm pretty sure the only amendment that was actually pushed through through this methodology was to repeal the amendment for prohibition.

344
00:20:52,160 --> 00:21:04,760
And so essentially the idea is that if you can get 35 state legislatures to pass an amendment to the United States Constitution using the slang, the language that's supposed to just be added to the Constitution directly and unilaterally.

345
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:17,480
And this was explicitly explained in the Federalist Papers as a way for the American public to be able to reclaim the republic when the federal government has become entirely corrupt, which I think that's the place that we're at.

346
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:32,020
And so it's a radically different strategy that sort of tries to lateralize states to reclaim their ability to essentially prove their sovereignty through amending the Constitution without any sort of federal representatives whatsoever.

347
00:21:32,780 --> 00:21:35,020
Again, this is like kind of a harebrained idea.

348
00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:40,700
I don't really want to run this down because like I'm not a politician and I don't really want to get shot at this age.

349
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,160
Although, yeah, like maybe I'm due for a young death anyway.

350
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,340
So like maybe we should just run this down anyways.

351
00:21:47,740 --> 00:21:50,840
But what do you want added to the Constitution?

352
00:21:52,180 --> 00:21:55,120
First one is just like unilateral destruction of the Federal Reserve.

353
00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:58,280
Just like the Federal Reserve does not get the issue of the dollar anymore.

354
00:21:58,640 --> 00:21:58,960
Done.

355
00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:01,500
And like with that, it's amended to the Constitution.

356
00:22:02,020 --> 00:22:09,820
And the interesting thing is like this causes a constitutional crisis because it's not like a federal government is just going to be like, oh, no, they amended the Constitution with Article five.

357
00:22:10,060 --> 00:22:11,640
Like, gee golly dang.

358
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,780
You know, in addition to like if you get that method to work, keep going.

359
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:21,680
It's like, you know, the United States federal government has no right to tax anyone anymore.

360
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:26,060
Or like the IRS is just an illegal institution that needs to be outright liquidated today.

361
00:22:26,060 --> 00:22:38,260
Like, you know, let your mind go crazy because there's no reason why we can't just use amendments directly as a way to essentially have a publicist to be able to pass laws against the federal government.

362
00:22:39,060 --> 00:22:45,280
And again, super radical idea would definitely cause a constitutional crisis, would probably get me killed in the process.

363
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:50,080
But fuck it, we're all going to die at this point in time if communists comes along.

364
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:51,880
So I'd rather get shot and starve to death.

365
00:22:51,880 --> 00:23:05,955
I love that whenever you speak to Eric this is about like reflecting on 17 years of Bitcoin It took us what 20 minutes to get into hanging all the politicians Well look I want to only do it if they actually been found guilty of treason

366
00:23:06,255 --> 00:23:10,075
All I'm saying is let's actually uphold the laws that have been established.

367
00:23:10,335 --> 00:23:10,955
There will be due process.

368
00:23:10,955 --> 00:23:11,975
And I think if we looked in the-

369
00:23:11,975 --> 00:23:12,975
It's not French Revolution.

370
00:23:13,335 --> 00:23:14,295
It's due process.

371
00:23:15,275 --> 00:23:15,695
Exactly.

372
00:23:15,895 --> 00:23:19,215
And it's very important that state governments all handle this on their own.

373
00:23:19,315 --> 00:23:23,575
So I'd expect that the representatives of each individual state, in addition to their senators,

374
00:23:23,575 --> 00:23:42,615
You know, so I would want Wyoming to put their senators on trial. And if it turns out that their senators hadn't broken the law, excellent. They don't get hung. Turns out that if, you know, some of the representatives in California took COVID money and never paid it back, had broke the law. Well, hey, that that they need to be held accountable for.

375
00:23:42,615 --> 00:23:48,115
but to me like again and it is ironic that as the anarchist that like i'm the one representing the

376
00:23:48,115 --> 00:23:53,955
rule of law more than anybody else is just kind of the irony of the entirety of this thing a very

377
00:23:53,955 --> 00:23:58,175
fact that we're talking about magic internet money is supposed to be the thing that returns us to

378
00:23:58,175 --> 00:24:03,315
sane economic prerogatives in the world as well that's where we're at in the narrative so here we

379
00:24:03,315 --> 00:24:08,495
are and you brought the no kings protest i've very intentionally just ignored everything that's

380
00:24:08,495 --> 00:24:12,135
been going on with that because i i don't i don't need to pay attention to that but can one of you

381
00:24:12,135 --> 00:24:17,515
fill me in like how big has that been over there not that big it's it's yeah it's like it's

382
00:24:17,515 --> 00:24:22,975
astroturfed honestly like it seems kind of fake yeah yeah i've seen some people hanging out at

383
00:24:22,975 --> 00:24:27,635
like again because i live in like the heart of liberal mecca uh like i see some people standing

384
00:24:27,635 --> 00:24:32,855
on the corners with their signs congratulating themselves for participating in democracy but i'm

385
00:24:32,855 --> 00:24:38,455
i'm just like super confused because like wasn't donald trump like elected through the democratic

386
00:24:38,455 --> 00:24:40,615
process so and like furthermore

387
00:24:40,615 --> 00:24:42,595
like I don't know of a lot of

388
00:24:42,595 --> 00:24:44,535
kings that like served for one term

389
00:24:44,535 --> 00:24:46,235
and then like left afterwards and

390
00:24:46,235 --> 00:24:47,795
reelected and so

391
00:24:47,795 --> 00:24:50,615
I don't know there's like a weird brain virus

392
00:24:50,615 --> 00:24:52,375
going on because like I don't

393
00:24:52,375 --> 00:24:54,575
actually hear I mean like of the

394
00:24:54,575 --> 00:24:56,455
two Republicans that I know in the area

395
00:24:56,455 --> 00:24:58,335
like they don't talk about Trump

396
00:24:58,335 --> 00:25:00,635
incessantly whereas like the liberals that I know

397
00:25:00,635 --> 00:25:02,475
they're always like that

398
00:25:02,475 --> 00:25:04,835
piece of shit Trump and he's

399
00:25:04,835 --> 00:25:06,715
destroying America with his

400
00:25:06,715 --> 00:25:08,275
fascism and I'm like deep like

401
00:25:08,455 --> 00:25:10,575
do you know what this word means?

402
00:25:10,575 --> 00:25:11,075
Cause like,

403
00:25:11,135 --> 00:25:13,295
I think you're using a lot of words that you don't understand.

404
00:25:13,435 --> 00:25:13,675
They're like,

405
00:25:13,695 --> 00:25:13,875
yeah,

406
00:25:13,875 --> 00:25:17,275
like fascism is where the bad guy wins.

407
00:25:17,335 --> 00:25:17,675
And I'm like,

408
00:25:17,735 --> 00:25:18,635
no,

409
00:25:18,975 --> 00:25:21,735
I think that there's maybe a deeper cause.

410
00:25:21,835 --> 00:25:24,875
Cause I always insist to people like the problem with calling Trump a fascist,

411
00:25:24,875 --> 00:25:27,035
like he's not principled enough to be a fascist.

412
00:25:27,215 --> 00:25:28,575
Like if he was a fascist,

413
00:25:28,635 --> 00:25:32,395
like I'm pretty sure we'd see a lot more people in prison and getting murdered

414
00:25:32,395 --> 00:25:32,875
exjudiciously.

415
00:25:33,795 --> 00:25:35,295
So I don't know.

416
00:25:35,375 --> 00:25:36,815
That's just my standpoint with it.

417
00:25:36,895 --> 00:25:37,175
But yeah,

418
00:25:37,175 --> 00:25:38,875
I do feel like this is astroturfed.

419
00:25:39,635 --> 00:25:42,455
And it's, I don't know, this is all bullshit.

420
00:25:42,615 --> 00:25:44,515
It's this left-right thing to divide us

421
00:25:44,515 --> 00:25:45,355
instead of us be like,

422
00:25:45,915 --> 00:25:49,055
hey, like the cost of groceries has gone up 50%

423
00:25:49,055 --> 00:25:50,695
in the last five years.

424
00:25:50,695 --> 00:25:53,915
Like that seems to be fucking all of us pretty equally

425
00:25:53,915 --> 00:25:55,875
except for this political class.

426
00:25:56,095 --> 00:25:57,515
That's pretty strange, huh?

427
00:25:57,875 --> 00:25:58,115
Hmm.

428
00:25:58,675 --> 00:26:01,095
Just to bring it back to Bitcoin for a minute.

429
00:26:01,795 --> 00:26:05,215
Like we've done 965 shows or something

430
00:26:05,215 --> 00:26:06,835
about all the wins that Bitcoin has had.

431
00:26:07,595 --> 00:26:10,795
But is there anything that you think we're not doing well enough?

432
00:26:10,915 --> 00:26:12,155
Maybe we'll start with you, Mai.

433
00:26:13,595 --> 00:26:14,675
Getting to the youth.

434
00:26:14,955 --> 00:26:16,515
I was going to say, Eric, while you're talking about that,

435
00:26:16,575 --> 00:26:20,015
not only are we stuck in the middle with you with red and blue,

436
00:26:21,235 --> 00:26:24,275
but I think it's like boomers and Gen Z.

437
00:26:25,055 --> 00:26:27,395
It's like, I feel like there's a cohort of millennials.

438
00:26:27,515 --> 00:26:29,155
Obviously, not every millennial is in the Bitcoin,

439
00:26:29,155 --> 00:26:35,315
but I think we're overrepresented within people that have adopted Bitcoin.

440
00:26:36,835 --> 00:26:39,935
and the boomers are just old dogs.

441
00:26:39,995 --> 00:26:41,775
You're not going to teach an old dog new trick.

442
00:26:41,895 --> 00:26:44,675
And then the zoomers are just completely nihilistic

443
00:26:44,675 --> 00:26:49,975
and running towards the wrong fake idols, if you will.

444
00:26:50,235 --> 00:26:51,035
And it's like, how do we,

445
00:26:51,555 --> 00:26:54,435
that's one thing again I've been thinking about.

446
00:26:54,655 --> 00:26:56,895
We had a whole zoomer series on our HR.

447
00:26:57,355 --> 00:27:00,535
I remember when I was in Austin earlier this year,

448
00:27:00,575 --> 00:27:01,555
we were talking about this

449
00:27:01,555 --> 00:27:03,375
because I think the demographics for our shows

450
00:27:03,375 --> 00:27:04,215
are probably pretty similar.

451
00:27:04,215 --> 00:27:10,835
and like the boomers I've actually seen that growing like I do see a sort of growing cohort

452
00:27:10,835 --> 00:27:15,235
there but in terms of sort of Gen Z there's almost no one listens to the show I don't know

453
00:27:15,235 --> 00:27:19,355
whether that's because it's like long-form content people prefer different types of media but like how

454
00:27:19,355 --> 00:27:24,875
do you reach those people I don't know I'm looking at my demo right now my core demo is 35 to 44

455
00:27:24,875 --> 00:27:33,995
at 25%. The next is 45 to 54 at 24. And then it's 55 to 64. And then it's 65 plus,

456
00:27:33,995 --> 00:27:39,575
and then it drops down to 25, 34. So it's not even millennials of my age, which is crazy. I don't

457
00:27:39,575 --> 00:27:42,915
know if it's the type of content we do, but I'm sure yours is similar for some reason.

458
00:27:43,715 --> 00:27:51,335
The Zoomers who are arguably the most important cohort for us to go out and convert to recognizing

459
00:27:51,335 --> 00:27:55,935
this third way of doing things or just not getting this information from what I can tell.

460
00:27:56,695 --> 00:28:00,555
I do wonder though, like, cause when I got into Bitcoin, I didn't have very much money at all,

461
00:28:00,675 --> 00:28:04,855
but, and Bitcoin seemed expensive then. And like, relatively it was obviously not like,

462
00:28:04,915 --> 00:28:08,875
do you think that's just unit bias that like, how can I, you know, gain from this thing when

463
00:28:08,875 --> 00:28:13,995
I can just go and like punt on meme game, meme stocks or whatever? I think we're just living in

464
00:28:13,995 --> 00:28:16,955
a completely different world. And I've come to realize this, like in the last three, like I don't

465
00:28:16,955 --> 00:28:19,075
get Zoomer culture at all.

466
00:28:19,075 --> 00:28:20,115
No, I got that.

467
00:28:20,115 --> 00:28:22,115
6-7 or something like that?

468
00:28:22,115 --> 00:28:23,115
6-7.

469
00:28:23,115 --> 00:28:24,115
It's the first one.

470
00:28:24,115 --> 00:28:27,075
I have no idea what it is and apparently it's the biggest thing.

471
00:28:27,075 --> 00:28:29,475
Yeah, I've never even heard of that.

472
00:28:29,475 --> 00:28:30,715
Maybe not.

473
00:28:30,715 --> 00:28:35,435
I think the thing that's hard as a millennial to understand about Zoomers is

474
00:28:35,435 --> 00:28:39,335
that just how pronounced the nihilism is.

475
00:28:39,335 --> 00:28:41,795
I think we all go on Twitter and we're like,

476
00:28:41,795 --> 00:28:44,075
oh my God, things are just getting worse every day.

477
00:28:44,075 --> 00:28:47,915
But we still have this sort of inherent like boomer utopianism

478
00:28:47,915 --> 00:28:49,255
because we were like real optimism

479
00:28:49,255 --> 00:28:50,815
because we were raised by the boomers.

480
00:28:51,335 --> 00:28:52,835
And so we kind of think that,

481
00:28:53,215 --> 00:28:54,935
I don't know, things are pretty shit,

482
00:28:55,015 --> 00:28:57,115
but like, I think we can pull it out.

483
00:28:57,215 --> 00:28:58,675
Like maybe we can make it work, you know?

484
00:28:59,035 --> 00:29:00,715
And so Bitcoin is a, you know,

485
00:29:00,775 --> 00:29:03,855
it's a philosophy of rational optimism

486
00:29:03,855 --> 00:29:06,255
because you're basically saying like,

487
00:29:06,255 --> 00:29:10,015
I have a future and I'm going to like plan for my future.

488
00:29:10,615 --> 00:29:12,135
And I'm going to do that with Bitcoin.

489
00:29:12,135 --> 00:29:14,535
But if you've totally swallowed the black pill,

490
00:29:15,155 --> 00:29:16,835
then you're basically saying,

491
00:29:17,055 --> 00:29:18,435
I'm waiting for the revolution.

492
00:29:18,835 --> 00:29:20,075
And if the revolution never comes,

493
00:29:20,095 --> 00:29:20,955
I'll just kill myself.

494
00:29:21,595 --> 00:29:22,815
And I think, unfortunately,

495
00:29:22,955 --> 00:29:24,695
that's what's going on with a lot of people

496
00:29:24,695 --> 00:29:26,855
in the Gen Z demographic.

497
00:29:27,235 --> 00:29:29,015
And what I would say to them is basically like,

498
00:29:29,075 --> 00:29:30,655
listen, the generational divide, whatever.

499
00:29:31,075 --> 00:29:31,855
Millennials are cringe.

500
00:29:31,955 --> 00:29:32,795
Yeah, of course, we're cringe.

501
00:29:33,055 --> 00:29:33,955
That's our thing, dog.

502
00:29:34,635 --> 00:29:36,335
You guys need to care about yourself

503
00:29:36,335 --> 00:29:38,315
and you need to start making some plans

504
00:29:38,315 --> 00:29:40,235
because you do have a future.

505
00:29:40,795 --> 00:29:41,855
No matter what happens,

506
00:29:41,855 --> 00:29:42,935
The world gets really bad.

507
00:29:43,035 --> 00:29:43,895
The world goes dark, whatever.

508
00:29:44,035 --> 00:29:46,535
It's like the sun is still going to come up

509
00:29:46,535 --> 00:29:47,815
and people are still going to go to work

510
00:29:47,815 --> 00:29:49,195
and people are still going to raise their families.

511
00:29:49,355 --> 00:29:50,395
Like you have a future.

512
00:29:50,715 --> 00:29:52,675
And so you need to plan accordingly

513
00:29:52,675 --> 00:29:54,195
as if you have a future.

514
00:29:54,615 --> 00:29:58,055
And you need to do that in a rationally optimistic way.

515
00:29:58,295 --> 00:29:59,915
You know, I think with Bitcoin,

516
00:30:00,055 --> 00:30:01,795
but like in all aspects of your life,

517
00:30:01,795 --> 00:30:03,335
you should plan that you're going to be here

518
00:30:03,335 --> 00:30:04,055
in the next 10 years

519
00:30:04,055 --> 00:30:05,855
because the people that aren't,

520
00:30:05,975 --> 00:30:07,655
that don't plan to be here,

521
00:30:07,875 --> 00:30:09,855
they end up in woeful circumstances.

522
00:30:09,935 --> 00:30:10,555
They're still here.

523
00:30:10,755 --> 00:30:11,375
They don't die.

524
00:30:11,375 --> 00:30:16,555
they're still here 10 20 30 years from now and they end up in just these awful circumstances

525
00:30:16,555 --> 00:30:21,415
with just these miserable lives and you don't want that to be you i mean to be fair to like

526
00:30:21,415 --> 00:30:25,715
steelman the black pill argument like it it's like really strong it kind of reminds me like

527
00:30:25,715 --> 00:30:29,715
the fish parable but with darkness it's like hey kids like how's the light today and like

528
00:30:29,715 --> 00:30:35,335
you know the fish in fact they're like what's light you know because like like look at look

529
00:30:35,335 --> 00:30:39,755
at the demographics and the statistics that like uh they grew up with a generation of parents who

530
00:30:39,755 --> 00:30:45,675
like already believed like the climate crisis doomerism ai doomerism like i'm the heart of ai

531
00:30:45,675 --> 00:30:52,035
like it's fucking bananas that like i don't think i've met a single person well there's one guy but

532
00:30:52,035 --> 00:30:57,335
outside of him i don't think i've met a single ai person that like has a non-black-pilled version

533
00:30:57,335 --> 00:31:03,195
so like ai is gonna murder everybody anyways uh like the the politics are completely fucked across

534
00:31:03,195 --> 00:31:08,875
the board the idea of them living moving out of their parents basement is a distant dream you know

535
00:31:08,875 --> 00:31:13,175
that the idea of just getting a room in the house and not living in the basement is like a dream so

536
00:31:13,175 --> 00:31:18,335
like they have a pretty strong argument for like why should i give a fuck about myself or the future

537
00:31:18,335 --> 00:31:23,475
because it's not gonna come and this is one of the places where like that's why i think that like

538
00:31:23,475 --> 00:31:29,515
insane communism works because it's like hey if you join my communist party we're just gonna kill

539
00:31:29,515 --> 00:31:35,235
the boomers and steal their shit and redistribute their housing to you so would you like to take up

540
00:31:35,235 --> 00:31:40,115
arms for the great communist cause. I'm like, that's like a pretty appealing thing at this

541
00:31:40,115 --> 00:31:44,795
point in time. And it's fucking terrifying. And I wish that this would actually get the boomers to

542
00:31:44,795 --> 00:31:49,215
the table in a meaningful way to go, oh yeah, we did actually fuck everything up, rewarded ourselves

543
00:31:49,215 --> 00:31:53,155
and then sold our children down the river. And now our grandchildren are going to murder us for that.

544
00:31:53,755 --> 00:31:58,535
You know, like that, that seems to be like a probabilistical outcome. And the thing that,

545
00:31:58,675 --> 00:32:04,355
that I find deeply resentful of is that like, when, at least in my case, when this has been

546
00:32:04,355 --> 00:32:05,495
presented to boomers,

547
00:32:06,275 --> 00:32:07,655
you kind of just get a shrug.

548
00:32:07,815 --> 00:32:08,855
And they're kind of like, eh.

549
00:32:09,695 --> 00:32:11,475
I'm 10 feet away from the grave anyway.

550
00:32:11,635 --> 00:32:12,235
Don't care.

551
00:32:13,435 --> 00:32:15,215
Yeah. And so, like, in all honesty,

552
00:32:15,335 --> 00:32:17,275
again, I think this brings it back to us

553
00:32:17,275 --> 00:32:19,395
and our demographic. And, like, it kind of sucks

554
00:32:19,395 --> 00:32:20,335
to admit it. But, like,

555
00:32:21,315 --> 00:32:23,415
I think we just have to actually do something

556
00:32:23,415 --> 00:32:25,515
even though I'm, like, pretty resistant to it.

557
00:32:25,575 --> 00:32:27,735
And, like, this is absolutely idiotic

558
00:32:27,735 --> 00:32:29,355
that it's, like, magic internet money

559
00:32:29,355 --> 00:32:31,575
is here to save everybody from the nihilistic

560
00:32:31,575 --> 00:32:33,315
hellhole that the world is becoming.

561
00:32:33,635 --> 00:32:33,715
But,

562
00:32:34,355 --> 00:32:37,215
This seems to be the narrative that we're on the course for.

563
00:32:37,395 --> 00:32:40,315
So I guess let's just get it done before it gets fucking harder.

564
00:32:41,035 --> 00:32:45,075
I do think like when you talk about we're going to move to either communism or fascism,

565
00:32:45,175 --> 00:32:49,375
like the communist outcome is really easy to predict, especially with AI.

566
00:32:49,875 --> 00:32:54,655
Like you can see UBI is almost like baked in the cake at this point to me.

567
00:32:54,715 --> 00:32:57,135
Like I don't understand how we can have anything else.

568
00:32:57,715 --> 00:32:59,535
Do you think that's the most likely outcome here?

569
00:33:00,535 --> 00:33:03,555
No, I think the fascist outcome is the most likely outcome.

570
00:33:03,555 --> 00:33:05,315
Yeah, I agree with that.

571
00:33:05,315 --> 00:33:08,095
Yeah, because the surveillance state has already been built,

572
00:33:08,095 --> 00:33:13,695
and it works whether you're a communist oligarchy or a fascist dictator.

573
00:33:13,695 --> 00:33:20,955
And I think that the call to restoring Western society to what it once was,

574
00:33:20,955 --> 00:33:23,995
because many of the people alive have seen it deteriorate,

575
00:33:23,995 --> 00:33:25,995
I think is going to be a pretty strong call,

576
00:33:25,995 --> 00:33:31,695
and all you need is a charismatic dictator type to come and say,

577
00:33:31,695 --> 00:33:32,715
he's going to fix everything.

578
00:33:32,715 --> 00:33:48,215
And a lot of people who are otherwise normal, hardworking, conservative, you know, family people will have this, the opposite brain worm of the communist brain worm and say to themselves, well, I do want things to go back to normal.

579
00:33:48,595 --> 00:33:51,555
So let's grant this guy unlimited power.

580
00:33:51,555 --> 00:33:54,435
And that is, you know, the road to hell.

581
00:33:54,875 --> 00:34:06,515
But if you're staring down two forks in the road and they're both the road to hell, that's the road to hell that's more comfortable and easier to take, I think, for the vast majority of Western people.

582
00:34:07,315 --> 00:34:14,735
Well, and to be very clear that, like, fascism was an explicit development as a counter-communist movement.

583
00:34:15,035 --> 00:34:15,155
Right.

584
00:34:15,755 --> 00:34:20,375
Like, Mussolini was an anarchist before he created the fascist movement.

585
00:34:20,375 --> 00:34:46,135
And like, that's part of the reasoning is when he saw what communism was doing after, uh, I'm trying to remember the Italian movement that got, uh, that got communism in power in Italy. And he saw the sort of damage it was doing the culture. It's only after that, that the fascist movement sort of gained steam. In addition to like, we're just talking about variants of socialism. Fascism is literally a brand of nationalized socialism.

586
00:34:46,135 --> 00:34:50,675
and and like this is one of the main dividing things that a lot of people don't understand

587
00:34:50,675 --> 00:34:55,795
is something that sets socialism apart from communism is that socialism is just a nationalized

588
00:34:55,795 --> 00:35:01,315
brand whereas international socialism is communist and so it's like through that methodology you get

589
00:35:01,315 --> 00:35:05,775
to be like oh americanism is an actual special cultural thing we do need to kick all the

590
00:35:05,775 --> 00:35:10,415
immigrants out like that's something that we need to protect as a national identity for ourselves

591
00:35:10,415 --> 00:35:14,895
whereas communism is just like no borders everybody can participate equally we're going

592
00:35:14,895 --> 00:35:18,475
of seize the means of production and redistribute it because that worked out super well in the 20th

593
00:35:18,475 --> 00:35:24,735
century and nobody was ever harmed from it um in addition to like fascism died a death in an early

594
00:35:24,735 --> 00:35:32,135
grave so it's kind of a general spooky name like we we haven't outside of uh because also i'd make

595
00:35:32,135 --> 00:35:37,535
the argument that stuff like uh francoism what we saw in portugal and all the stuff that we saw in

596
00:35:37,535 --> 00:35:41,715
latin america like i don't think i think those were authoritarian movements as opposed to fascist

597
00:35:41,715 --> 00:35:46,615
ones. This is highly debatable, but like, I think fascism is still an open-ended question,

598
00:35:46,735 --> 00:35:51,435
particularly here in America. Yeah. And, and essentially like as the communists rise into

599
00:35:51,435 --> 00:35:55,255
power, it seems that it'll have great appeal because instead of me needing to appeal to all

600
00:35:55,255 --> 00:36:00,075
of the masses, you essentially go to three dozen billionaire tech founders and you say,

601
00:36:00,155 --> 00:36:05,435
give me the fucking power or people are going to kill you. And they'll go, yeah, that sounds good.

602
00:36:06,075 --> 00:36:09,595
Do you wish you could access cash without selling your Bitcoin? Well,

603
00:36:09,595 --> 00:36:10,715
But Ledin makes that possible.

604
00:36:10,715 --> 00:36:14,835
They're the global leader in Bitcoin-backed lending and since 2018 they've issued over

605
00:36:14,835 --> 00:36:19,715
$9 billion in loans with a perfect record of protecting client assets.

606
00:36:19,715 --> 00:36:23,875
With Ledin you get full custody loans with no credit checks or monthly repayments, just

607
00:36:23,875 --> 00:36:27,895
easy access to dollars without selling a single SAT.

608
00:36:27,895 --> 00:36:32,415
As of July 1st, Ledin is Bitcoin only meaning they exclusively offer Bitcoin-backed loans

609
00:36:32,415 --> 00:36:36,935
with all collateral held by Ledin directly or their funding partners.

610
00:36:36,935 --> 00:36:39,135
Your Bitcoin is never lent out to generate interest.

611
00:36:39,595 --> 00:36:43,035
I recently took out a loan with Ledin. The whole process was super easy.

612
00:36:43,035 --> 00:36:46,475
The application took me less than 15 minutes and in a few hours I had the

613
00:36:46,475 --> 00:36:51,595
dollars in my account. It was really smooth. So if you need cash but you don't want to sell bitcoin

614
00:36:51,595 --> 00:36:57,995
head over to ledin.io forward slash wbd and you'll get 0.25% off your first loan.

615
00:36:57,995 --> 00:37:03,915
That's ledin.io forward slash wbd. This episode is brought to you by River and they've just launched

616
00:37:03,915 --> 00:37:09,275
a very cool new product where you can automatically buy every price dip. There's zero fee recurring

617
00:37:09,275 --> 00:37:14,715
buys are a proven way to build wealth with Bitcoin and you can now supercharge them and buy up to 100%

618
00:37:14,715 --> 00:37:19,675
more Bitcoin if the price is dipping at the time of your order. It's a great tool to buy more

619
00:37:19,675 --> 00:37:25,195
Bitcoin at lower prices and while your cash is waiting to be deployed you earn 3.75% interest on

620
00:37:25,195 --> 00:37:30,555
it paid in Bitcoin. River is built to last with security at its core and is the only Bitcoin

621
00:37:30,555 --> 00:37:36,795
exchange in the US with proof of reserves. To open an account go to river.com forward slash wbd

622
00:37:36,795 --> 00:37:42,075
and earn up to $100 in Bitcoin when you buy. That's river.com forward slash wbd.

623
00:37:43,195 --> 00:37:47,035
What if you could lower your tax bill and stack Bitcoin at the same time?

624
00:37:47,035 --> 00:37:52,315
Well, by mining Bitcoin with blockware you can. New tax guidelines from the Big Beautiful Bill

625
00:37:52,315 --> 00:37:57,355
allow American miners to write off 100% of the cost of their mining hardware in a single tax year.

626
00:37:57,355 --> 00:38:02,635
That's right, 100% write-off. So if you have $100,000 in capital gains or income,

627
00:38:02,635 --> 00:38:06,075
you can purchase $100,000 of miners and offset it entirely.

628
00:38:06,795 --> 00:38:11,415
Blockware's mining as a service enables you to start mining Bitcoin right now without lifting a finger.

629
00:38:11,975 --> 00:38:17,335
Blockware handles everything from securing the miners to sourcing low-cost power to configuring the pool, they do it all.

630
00:38:17,895 --> 00:38:22,995
You get to stack Bitcoin at a discount every single day while also saving big come tax season.

631
00:38:23,675 --> 00:38:28,575
Get started today by going to mining.blockwaresolutions.com forward slash WBD.

632
00:38:29,175 --> 00:38:30,615
Of course, none of this is tax advice.

633
00:38:30,835 --> 00:38:34,335
Speak to your accountant or tax advisor to understand how these rules apply to you

634
00:38:34,335 --> 00:38:40,555
and then head over to mining.blockware solutions.com forward slash wbd and you'll get one week of free

635
00:38:40,555 --> 00:38:45,615
hosting and electricity with each hosted miner purchased it almost sounds like you're saying

636
00:38:45,615 --> 00:38:53,215
fascism is a good way out of this i don't want to say it's a good way out i mean like it it's it's

637
00:38:53,215 --> 00:38:58,855
like the fucking trolley problem like these are both horrible outcomes you know but also like you

638
00:38:58,855 --> 00:39:01,995
know what would have been great would have been great if our grandparents didn't sell us up the

639
00:39:01,995 --> 00:39:06,655
fucking river and end for the convertibility of gold and completely fuck up the entirety of the

640
00:39:06,655 --> 00:39:11,175
financial system so that when we're sitting here talking about the fact that zoomers could actually

641
00:39:11,175 --> 00:39:16,655
own homes instead of it being a distant dream it could be a possibility so again it sucks but

642
00:39:16,655 --> 00:39:21,195
same thing with the trolley problem you wish that one dumbass wasn't standing on the track versus

643
00:39:21,195 --> 00:39:27,555
four but either way you're gonna have to break some eggs to fix this problem i am i think about

644
00:39:27,555 --> 00:39:36,695
this quite a lot, Eric. And to me, it's like, I really do think the thing I said earlier about us

645
00:39:36,695 --> 00:39:43,515
walking the middle path is kind of the arduous journey that we have set ourselves upon.

646
00:39:44,435 --> 00:39:48,255
You know, we didn't, we didn't do that initially, but like, that's just where we find ourselves.

647
00:39:48,635 --> 00:39:56,055
And I do think that it is going to be a cohort of, you know, millennial aged men who believe in

648
00:39:56,055 --> 00:40:01,615
freedom that are going to be the most significant players in the fourth turning.

649
00:40:02,955 --> 00:40:10,355
And I think it's, you know, it's easy to look at what's going on and like get riled up and

650
00:40:10,355 --> 00:40:12,015
kind of like join a side.

651
00:40:12,215 --> 00:40:14,695
Like, you know, I'm with the fascists.

652
00:40:14,775 --> 00:40:15,375
I'm with the cops.

653
00:40:16,035 --> 00:40:21,375
And I just, I think that's just not what we should be doing.

654
00:40:21,375 --> 00:40:27,935
I think Bitcoiners need to continue to walk the middle path and knowing that it's the most

655
00:40:27,935 --> 00:40:33,835
dangerous path, but it has the best outcomes. And so that's why you have to walk it.

656
00:40:34,495 --> 00:40:41,235
To recuse myself, I 100% agree with you. I also do think it is absolutely the most difficult path,

657
00:40:41,655 --> 00:40:47,835
the most challenging path, and one that's just going to take a lot of difficult and hard work.

658
00:40:47,835 --> 00:40:50,295
but the more and more that I spend time here

659
00:40:50,295 --> 00:40:51,555
kind of running this down

660
00:40:51,555 --> 00:40:52,595
the more and more that like

661
00:40:52,595 --> 00:40:54,535
it's actually pretty essential

662
00:40:54,535 --> 00:40:56,095
but it's also like

663
00:40:56,095 --> 00:40:57,435
who does this?

664
00:40:57,615 --> 00:40:58,395
How does it form?

665
00:40:58,675 --> 00:40:59,815
How does it get pushed forward?

666
00:41:00,455 --> 00:41:01,875
And you know the last time we talked

667
00:41:01,875 --> 00:41:04,155
about the Charlie Kirk assassination

668
00:41:04,155 --> 00:41:06,515
like he was making massive inroads

669
00:41:06,515 --> 00:41:07,215
with the youth

670
00:41:07,215 --> 00:41:09,095
and the way that he was starting to direct

671
00:41:09,095 --> 00:41:11,595
kind of a new political vision

672
00:41:11,595 --> 00:41:13,875
so I guess we kind of need something like that

673
00:41:13,875 --> 00:41:14,355
for Bitcoin

674
00:41:14,355 --> 00:41:15,315
but I don't know

675
00:41:15,315 --> 00:41:16,715
maybe even a wider view

676
00:41:16,715 --> 00:41:17,455
of that like

677
00:41:17,835 --> 00:41:30,155
I guess we sort of just need a third party and it just needs to start being a mass political movement that like this is not about right or left, but it's really just about like we need to get a sane money system that isn't biased towards politics anymore.

678
00:41:30,155 --> 00:41:31,755
And Bitcoin is that actual answer.

679
00:41:32,335 --> 00:41:35,295
Well, does it even need to be a political moment?

680
00:41:35,855 --> 00:41:38,395
A political movement should just be social, right?

681
00:41:38,455 --> 00:41:44,615
Because this is what I think a lot about is like the sly roundabout way to take money out of the hands of the government.

682
00:41:44,615 --> 00:41:52,355
And that's one thing, particularly when it comes to right versus left, red versus blue, and even the introduction of a third party.

683
00:41:52,355 --> 00:42:20,935
It's like, is solving these problems by political means, are you ultimately going to end up with communism versus fascism? Or can we do our part in the free market as Bitcoiners to convince enough critical mass of people to adopt Bitcoin and integrate it into their lives where they're able to save themselves instead of trying to work through the political apparatus to try and force the politicians to save them?

684
00:42:20,935 --> 00:42:22,815
and this is why I mean to

685
00:42:22,815 --> 00:42:24,615
sprinkle in some white pills

686
00:42:24,615 --> 00:42:27,415
here that's what's like really encouraging to see

687
00:42:27,415 --> 00:42:29,075
Square release

688
00:42:29,075 --> 00:42:30,535
like Bitcoin for small businesses

689
00:42:30,535 --> 00:42:32,135
or point of sale systems

690
00:42:32,135 --> 00:42:34,735
it's great to see I mean

691
00:42:34,735 --> 00:42:36,855
the big to your point Eric the big problem for

692
00:42:36,855 --> 00:42:37,915
Zoomer specifically is like

693
00:42:37,915 --> 00:42:39,675
I think Cornerstone

694
00:42:39,675 --> 00:42:42,855
literally the base layer of Maslow's

695
00:42:42,855 --> 00:42:44,215
hierarchy needs to shelter

696
00:42:44,215 --> 00:42:46,675
and people

697
00:42:46,675 --> 00:42:48,715
don't think they can buy homes like so

698
00:42:48,715 --> 00:42:50,415
introducing Bitcoin

699
00:42:50,415 --> 00:42:52,235
is collateral and like mortgages

700
00:42:52,235 --> 00:42:54,475
in very early days we can squint

701
00:42:54,475 --> 00:42:56,295
and see if it takes off like people

702
00:42:56,295 --> 00:42:58,435
particularly boomers

703
00:42:58,435 --> 00:43:00,475
and people that have houses right now can begin to care

704
00:43:00,475 --> 00:43:02,315
less about the equity value

705
00:43:02,315 --> 00:43:04,355
of their houses and really just

706
00:43:04,355 --> 00:43:06,375
let the equity value of the Bitcoin do the work

707
00:43:06,375 --> 00:43:08,415
and sell the properties off

708
00:43:08,415 --> 00:43:10,375
at a cheaper

709
00:43:10,375 --> 00:43:12,475
value to people who need it and I think

710
00:43:12,475 --> 00:43:14,435
it's just trying

711
00:43:14,435 --> 00:43:16,375
to get Bitcoin stuffed in as

712
00:43:16,375 --> 00:43:18,315
many nooks and crannies of the economy

713
00:43:18,315 --> 00:43:19,875
as possible as quickly as possible.

714
00:43:20,415 --> 00:43:25,275
Yeah, that's the white pill on the Sue Coiner narrative as well, right?

715
00:43:25,375 --> 00:43:31,275
Is that it creates alignment between people who are non-Bitcoiners and Bitcoiners.

716
00:43:31,575 --> 00:43:36,615
So we, you know, like the original Citadel post is like talking about how like the world

717
00:43:36,615 --> 00:43:40,655
is horrible outside the Citadel and Bitcoiners live in the Citadel and everything is, you

718
00:43:40,655 --> 00:43:41,895
know, fine in the Citadel or whatever.

719
00:43:42,035 --> 00:43:46,535
Like that's not a world you want to live in because you're under siege every day.

720
00:43:46,735 --> 00:43:48,735
Like you don't want to be under siege every day.

721
00:43:48,735 --> 00:43:53,555
You want to live in a good world where your neighbors are prosperous as well.

722
00:43:54,075 --> 00:43:57,835
And so I think that when we look at the stuff that's going on with treasury companies, for instance,

723
00:43:57,915 --> 00:44:00,115
that's embedding a lot of Bitcoin in the public markets.

724
00:44:00,635 --> 00:44:05,235
And as they make their way into the queues and they make their way into the S&P 500,

725
00:44:05,495 --> 00:44:09,315
these different treasury co's, more people have more exposure to Bitcoin.

726
00:44:10,075 --> 00:44:12,955
And so if Bitcoin is demonetizing fiat currency,

727
00:44:13,555 --> 00:44:16,295
Well, you know, like there's 166 million Americans

728
00:44:16,295 --> 00:44:18,855
who are going to have, you know, exposure to that

729
00:44:18,855 --> 00:44:20,455
via broad market index funds.

730
00:44:20,595 --> 00:44:22,675
And like, that's not a bad thing.

731
00:44:22,755 --> 00:44:25,675
Like, it's a bad thing for Bitcoin's

732
00:44:25,675 --> 00:44:27,895
maybe political goals and aspirations,

733
00:44:27,895 --> 00:44:29,895
but it's not a bad thing in terms of alignment

734
00:44:29,895 --> 00:44:31,035
with our fellow citizens.

735
00:44:31,615 --> 00:44:33,315
It's a way to orange pill people

736
00:44:33,315 --> 00:44:35,595
without them even knowing they've been orange pill,

737
00:44:35,935 --> 00:44:39,315
essentially, like, and I think that that is a,

738
00:44:39,735 --> 00:44:40,795
you know, it's a silver lining.

739
00:44:40,915 --> 00:44:41,495
It's a bright spot.

740
00:44:41,495 --> 00:44:44,615
It's not purely negative, in my view.

741
00:44:45,755 --> 00:44:46,775
I agree it's not purely negative,

742
00:44:46,935 --> 00:44:48,995
but there are negative externalities from that

743
00:44:48,995 --> 00:44:51,235
in the sense that people are actually owning Bitcoin.

744
00:44:51,375 --> 00:44:52,975
There's a massive centralization of coins.

745
00:44:53,415 --> 00:44:55,495
Marty, I've not really heard you talk about the treasury company stuff.

746
00:44:55,555 --> 00:44:56,435
What's your take on it?

747
00:44:58,155 --> 00:44:59,155
A bit nuanced.

748
00:44:59,395 --> 00:45:04,935
I think the pure play Bitcoin treasury companies

749
00:45:04,935 --> 00:45:07,775
that are just going public to accumulate as much Bitcoin as possible.

750
00:45:08,175 --> 00:45:11,235
I've said this many times on RHR,

751
00:45:11,235 --> 00:45:11,895
over the last year,

752
00:45:11,975 --> 00:45:12,635
I think it's going to be

753
00:45:12,635 --> 00:45:13,795
a Pareto distribution.

754
00:45:14,015 --> 00:45:15,175
I think it's a success.

755
00:45:15,555 --> 00:45:17,155
I think it's an economy

756
00:45:17,155 --> 00:45:17,935
as a scale game

757
00:45:17,935 --> 00:45:18,895
if you're trying to weaponize

758
00:45:18,895 --> 00:45:20,035
capital markets.

759
00:45:20,215 --> 00:45:22,275
So I think the pure play

760
00:45:22,275 --> 00:45:24,675
Bitcoin treasury companies,

761
00:45:24,815 --> 00:45:26,415
there'll be maybe five

762
00:45:26,415 --> 00:45:28,495
that actually get

763
00:45:28,495 --> 00:45:29,935
significant market share

764
00:45:29,935 --> 00:45:30,875
to sustain themselves

765
00:45:30,875 --> 00:45:31,695
in a long time.

766
00:45:31,935 --> 00:45:34,075
And I think they're

767
00:45:34,075 --> 00:45:35,315
certainly interesting.

768
00:45:35,475 --> 00:45:36,675
I mean, it's hard not to

769
00:45:36,675 --> 00:45:37,675
find interest in them

770
00:45:37,675 --> 00:45:39,055
considering what strategy

771
00:45:39,055 --> 00:45:40,435
is done specifically.

772
00:45:40,435 --> 00:45:42,475
But what I'm more focused on is the operating businesses.

773
00:45:42,475 --> 00:45:48,435
Again, like leaning back on Square's implementation of Bitcoin and the point of sale systems.

774
00:45:48,435 --> 00:45:53,655
And I don't think it's going to be, I think the predominant use case of that is people,

775
00:45:53,655 --> 00:46:05,350
merchants that become Bitcoiners are sweeping funds into Bitcoin automatically I don think like paying with Bitcoin at POS systems is really going to expand beyond sort of our circles

776
00:46:05,350 --> 00:46:07,150
for a few years.

777
00:46:07,150 --> 00:46:10,430
But then the ability to get small, medium-sized businesses

778
00:46:10,430 --> 00:46:12,590
onto a Bitcoin standard is going to be massive.

779
00:46:14,310 --> 00:46:18,710
Yeah, treasury companies are a distraction to a degree

780
00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:20,630
in both directions.

781
00:46:20,630 --> 00:46:22,490
Like one, people focus on number go up

782
00:46:22,490 --> 00:46:24,990
and you have like the master north

783
00:46:24,990 --> 00:46:27,910
and all the stock influencers popping up

784
00:46:27,910 --> 00:46:30,330
and really trying to drive people towards that.

785
00:46:30,410 --> 00:46:33,110
But then I think in the other direction too,

786
00:46:33,190 --> 00:46:34,850
people saying like, oh, Bitcoin is distracted,

787
00:46:35,310 --> 00:46:36,970
like number go up, so that cares.

788
00:46:37,090 --> 00:46:37,830
If you pay attention,

789
00:46:38,330 --> 00:46:39,690
I wrote about it last night in the newsletter.

790
00:46:39,930 --> 00:46:42,590
Like some dude with six bid axes

791
00:46:42,590 --> 00:46:45,170
and an Avalon queue mined a block by himself.

792
00:46:45,290 --> 00:46:46,350
He was self-hosting a node,

793
00:46:46,490 --> 00:46:48,190
self-hosting his own pool instance

794
00:46:48,190 --> 00:46:51,130
and running his computers in his living room

795
00:46:51,130 --> 00:46:56,970
and mined a Bitcoin block and contributed to a $2.5 trillion monetary network.

796
00:46:57,110 --> 00:46:57,950
That's mind-blowing.

797
00:46:58,170 --> 00:47:02,170
Like that cypherpunk ethos is not only still alive, it's still possible,

798
00:47:02,630 --> 00:47:03,990
which is the most important thing.

799
00:47:03,990 --> 00:47:07,190
And like the other things, like you look at ARK launching,

800
00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:11,810
Cashew and Fedimense or eCashMense becoming more mature.

801
00:47:12,110 --> 00:47:17,970
I think while numbers go up, particularly in the context of Bitcoin treasury companies

802
00:47:17,970 --> 00:47:20,270
and the narratives around Saylor and others.

803
00:47:20,890 --> 00:47:23,390
Doing that play is a distraction to an extent,

804
00:47:23,530 --> 00:47:25,290
but not only a distraction for people

805
00:47:25,290 --> 00:47:27,250
enamored by number go up,

806
00:47:27,290 --> 00:47:30,790
but by regulators and suits who are like,

807
00:47:30,850 --> 00:47:33,270
oh, we've successfully cucked Bitcoin.

808
00:47:33,450 --> 00:47:36,170
But I think the cypherpunk movement within Bitcoin

809
00:47:36,170 --> 00:47:39,490
is more alive than it has been in many years,

810
00:47:39,490 --> 00:47:41,990
particularly with these second layer solutions

811
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:42,930
focused on privacy.

812
00:47:43,790 --> 00:47:46,670
I think that guy who mined a block with his bags

813
00:47:46,670 --> 00:47:47,370
is fucking awesome.

814
00:47:47,370 --> 00:47:51,710
um like minor centralization has been one of the things that i guess has been a big concern of a lot

815
00:47:51,710 --> 00:47:55,930
of people for quite a while now do you think the tide is kind of turning there marty with things

816
00:47:55,930 --> 00:48:01,670
like the heat punk stuff like bit axes like all that like datum and stratum v2 all that stuff

817
00:48:01,670 --> 00:48:09,790
definitely i mean and it's i think it's twofold it's that you have this energy and focus in the

818
00:48:09,790 --> 00:48:15,490
open source mining community both on the hardware or on the hardware firmware software pool like

819
00:48:15,490 --> 00:48:21,630
There's definitely a critical mass of people focused on building out those capabilities for people.

820
00:48:21,770 --> 00:48:24,850
But then the second fold thing is like we're reaching ASIC modifications.

821
00:48:25,090 --> 00:48:29,310
So these use cases actually are viable now.

822
00:48:29,430 --> 00:48:33,390
It's much easier to do them in a somewhat economic way.

823
00:48:33,450 --> 00:48:34,510
They're not all going to be profitable.

824
00:48:35,450 --> 00:48:41,230
But we're getting closer to the point where you can integrate Bitcoin miners at home pretty easily.

825
00:48:41,230 --> 00:48:44,070
and many people may be able to do it profitably

826
00:48:44,070 --> 00:48:46,290
depending on where they live and how they're using the heat.

827
00:48:47,250 --> 00:48:50,870
And I think it's trending in the right direction.

828
00:48:51,030 --> 00:48:53,110
I think I would not be surprised if we look back

829
00:48:53,110 --> 00:48:57,470
and mining centralization, like peak mining centralization,

830
00:48:57,770 --> 00:49:00,070
was at some point before this date.

831
00:49:00,590 --> 00:49:06,230
I think the emergence of Proto, who knows how they're performed,

832
00:49:06,310 --> 00:49:10,050
but I think this at-home mining trend and theme

833
00:49:10,050 --> 00:49:13,390
that we're maybe seeing growing over the last three years specifically is only getting stronger.

834
00:49:13,790 --> 00:49:16,810
And I've talked to Tyler Stevens from Exergy and there's many others.

835
00:49:17,410 --> 00:49:25,430
I will not be surprised if sort of commercial Bitcoin mining being used as waste heat

836
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:29,010
for industrial purposes becomes mainstream in the next decade.

837
00:49:29,010 --> 00:49:35,290
And that helps to distribute hash rate ownership, distribute hash rate geographically.

838
00:49:35,290 --> 00:49:41,290
then most importantly with the pool software being open source and becoming easier to self-host your

839
00:49:41,290 --> 00:49:47,050
own node and your own pool instance and reliably mine a block if you find a hash in your living

840
00:49:47,050 --> 00:49:53,030
room to your self-hosted node like that's going to be massive for the network yeah i mean if we

841
00:49:53,030 --> 00:49:56,790
get to a world where people are using bitcoin for their mortgages heating the houses using

842
00:49:56,790 --> 00:50:02,090
bitcoin mining like that seems like a very positive like insanely positive place to be

843
00:50:02,090 --> 00:50:10,750
But like all of this comes down to adoption, like from everything all of you guys have said, like, Eric, this is how we stop the world turning to like fascism or communism.

844
00:50:11,070 --> 00:50:19,590
Like, do you think all the infighting that's happening in Bitcoin is basically just like people playing silly games when there's way more important stuff to be doing?

845
00:50:20,950 --> 00:50:22,250
I totally think so.

846
00:50:22,250 --> 00:50:39,370
You know, I'm like, I think, I mean, the fact that Op Return is the thing that we're debating about so heavily, as opposed to something like Op Cat or something goes to show like how, how, how little technical information is actually out there, how much this widow echo chamber is like its own thing.

847
00:50:39,370 --> 00:50:44,390
in addition to like i just want to echo marty's sentiment of giving a little bit of my own white

848
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:48,990
pill about like uh it's interesting because like cypherpunks inherently like can't be loud

849
00:50:48,990 --> 00:50:54,250
so even though like that has generated its own sort of critical mass of movement like

850
00:50:54,250 --> 00:50:59,230
they're sort of silent individuals so i've been surprised at the number of people that will pop

851
00:50:59,230 --> 00:51:05,070
up on the radar who are doing really cool and interesting stuff but like they don't make any

852
00:51:05,070 --> 00:51:10,330
noise simply because like that's sort of how they move uh it's like a really positive thing so like

853
00:51:10,330 --> 00:51:15,430
ultimately like i think while i can get quite nihilistic about this political front like

854
00:51:15,430 --> 00:51:20,990
we've made huge inroads in addition to the idea of that uh like using bitcoin's heat like that's

855
00:51:20,990 --> 00:51:25,670
always going to achieve a larger economic efficiency than just outright mining bitcoin so like

856
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:31,070
at some point we move in that direction in addition to like what happens when we've become

857
00:51:31,070 --> 00:51:35,370
efficient enough with this stuff that like you can find a place up in northern alaska that's like

858
00:51:35,370 --> 00:51:39,050
hey everybody just gets free energy and heat here because of the way that we've set up the

859
00:51:39,050 --> 00:51:44,850
infrastructure of this new city that's going to provide all these new different services you know

860
00:51:44,850 --> 00:51:49,310
and like that's that's kind of one of the places i ultimately think the greatest affect is going to

861
00:51:49,310 --> 00:51:55,630
be had is like what happens when we actually make massive infrastructural changes towards uh like

862
00:51:55,630 --> 00:52:01,170
the way that mining decentralization occurs and also like how we're going to innovate around this

863
00:52:01,170 --> 00:52:06,370
so like ultimately like you know the old noma curve like everything's good for bitcoin so i

864
00:52:06,370 --> 00:52:12,330
think like as things move in a direction and as the general world sort of becomes darker and more

865
00:52:12,330 --> 00:52:16,570
nihilistic that lets the light of bitcoin sort of shine all the brighter in that darkness

866
00:52:16,570 --> 00:52:23,330
and as it pertains to like the infighting with bitcoin within bitcoin about op return i don't

867
00:52:23,330 --> 00:52:29,430
think anybody outside of the Twitter or Noster bubbles is seeing any of that, nor do they care,

868
00:52:29,550 --> 00:52:35,990
nor should they, because it's noise. In terms of distracting us from actually working on more

869
00:52:35,990 --> 00:52:40,590
worthwhile endeavors, I think that's certainly happening, at least to some people. I've, my whole,

870
00:52:41,250 --> 00:52:45,550
I know you said you wanted to talk about it, my whole, I've tried my hardest over the last six

871
00:52:45,550 --> 00:52:50,250
months. I did the live stream at Bitcoin Plus Plus in Austin in May for two days, did eight hours of

872
00:52:50,250 --> 00:52:54,930
content on the subject and then after that i was like i think the best move is just to not talk

873
00:52:54,930 --> 00:53:00,290
about this and suck the oxygen out of the conversation because it's so idiotic in my mind

874
00:53:00,290 --> 00:53:07,490
yeah but so i i do like i've done shows on it so i've not done the same thing as you there but like

875
00:53:07,490 --> 00:53:12,750
i i understand why you want to kind of ignore it in a sense that like maybe it is just people

876
00:53:12,750 --> 00:53:18,310
on twitter that care about it but the number of people that are getting sort of riled up about this

877
00:53:18,310 --> 00:53:24,470
is it's quite large like i think there's definitely some sort of bots and some sort of fake signal in

878
00:53:24,470 --> 00:53:29,070
there um but like people are getting very angry and now there's this like new proposed soft fork

879
00:53:29,070 --> 00:53:35,170
which is i mean for anyone who's not been paying attention like good on you but um it's basically

880
00:53:35,170 --> 00:53:41,190
like a temporary soft fork to mitigate spam and like this actually does worry me i'm going to pull

881
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:47,590
up a tweet because this summed it up way better than i could so bitpain tweeted the other day is

882
00:53:47,590 --> 00:53:49,250
this last bit here that I thought was really good.

883
00:53:49,510 --> 00:53:50,790
He said, once you grant the state

884
00:53:50,790 --> 00:53:53,510
that you can take efforts to mitigate illicit material,

885
00:53:53,670 --> 00:53:54,530
they'll start demanding it,

886
00:53:54,610 --> 00:53:56,410
including for monetary transactions they don't like.

887
00:53:56,710 --> 00:53:58,490
And if you've accepted that you have a community-wide

888
00:53:58,490 --> 00:53:59,690
moral imperative to censor,

889
00:53:59,790 --> 00:54:01,010
you don't have a leg to stand on.

890
00:54:01,390 --> 00:54:03,430
Like, that is my fear in this,

891
00:54:03,510 --> 00:54:06,570
is that, like, this is getting serious sort of traction

892
00:54:06,570 --> 00:54:08,410
from a subset of Bitcoiners,

893
00:54:08,470 --> 00:54:09,710
and, like, what are the implications

894
00:54:09,710 --> 00:54:10,990
of us doing something about it?

895
00:54:11,770 --> 00:54:13,570
I don't think they're going to be able to solve for it.

896
00:54:13,570 --> 00:54:16,850
Like, I don't think you need to convince

897
00:54:16,850 --> 00:54:17,730
a lot of people to do it.

898
00:54:17,930 --> 00:54:19,490
And I guess my,

899
00:54:19,690 --> 00:54:20,750
going back to the op return debate,

900
00:54:20,830 --> 00:54:21,450
this is all I'll say,

901
00:54:21,550 --> 00:54:22,450
I'll throw it to you, Eric,

902
00:54:22,530 --> 00:54:22,950
but like,

903
00:54:23,610 --> 00:54:24,750
it's consensus valid.

904
00:54:25,090 --> 00:54:26,030
Like, it's like,

905
00:54:26,330 --> 00:54:28,130
it always falls back to this for me.

906
00:54:28,190 --> 00:54:28,470
It's like,

907
00:54:28,830 --> 00:54:29,790
it's consensus valid.

908
00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:30,470
Like, I don't know

909
00:54:30,470 --> 00:54:31,530
what we're fighting about over here.

910
00:54:31,630 --> 00:54:33,370
It's within Bitcoin's consensus rules.

911
00:54:34,730 --> 00:54:35,230
And tonight I said

912
00:54:35,230 --> 00:54:36,230
I didn't get to just have

913
00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:37,210
my outburst there

914
00:54:37,210 --> 00:54:38,430
because I probably would have

915
00:54:38,430 --> 00:54:40,490
gone on a totally unhinged rant.

916
00:54:40,770 --> 00:54:41,430
Look like,

917
00:54:42,090 --> 00:54:43,950
look like,

918
00:54:44,070 --> 00:54:45,290
if you're worried about

919
00:54:45,290 --> 00:54:50,730
the state doing stuff like get the fuck out of like i don't know what you're doing here i don't

920
00:54:50,730 --> 00:54:56,290
understand why you're interested in this project like when i got involved there was nobody in the

921
00:54:56,290 --> 00:55:01,090
state that paid any attention to it nor could they stop it like the the thing that was happening was

922
00:55:01,090 --> 00:55:06,430
the silk road and like it did that and it did it fucking well and that it massively improved

923
00:55:06,430 --> 00:55:12,270
people's asset access to being able to get illegal substances and other things like if you're worried

924
00:55:12,270 --> 00:55:13,950
about your Bitcoin node running

925
00:55:13,950 --> 00:55:15,890
and having the state come kick down in your door,

926
00:55:16,270 --> 00:55:18,010
you should probably think about Ripple.

927
00:55:18,190 --> 00:55:19,890
That's probably the right answer for you

928
00:55:19,890 --> 00:55:20,710
and what you want.

929
00:55:21,110 --> 00:55:23,630
You know, they're going to comply with the state.

930
00:55:23,770 --> 00:55:24,990
They're really interested in regulation.

931
00:55:25,170 --> 00:55:27,390
Like, you should go check out that project.

932
00:55:27,590 --> 00:55:30,130
If you're interested in uncensorable money

933
00:55:30,130 --> 00:55:31,630
that you can use right now

934
00:55:31,630 --> 00:55:33,570
to send people in Gaza money if you want,

935
00:55:33,650 --> 00:55:35,150
or help people escape from North Korea,

936
00:55:35,310 --> 00:55:36,730
or do whatever the fuck you want,

937
00:55:37,170 --> 00:55:38,330
you should stay here.

938
00:55:38,690 --> 00:55:41,530
And also, like, this is the one that upsets me the most,

939
00:55:41,530 --> 00:55:48,530
is that like you should really think very hard about if you're advocating very strongly for one

940
00:55:48,530 --> 00:55:53,730
of these sides why it is all of the highly technical people seem to be on one side of the

941
00:55:53,730 --> 00:55:58,070
debate i'm not saying that that's necessarily the right argument because from the very beginning of

942
00:55:58,070 --> 00:56:02,750
this whole fucking shit show me and steve lee had a great dialogue with each other where i was like

943
00:56:02,750 --> 00:56:07,250
this shit isn't gonna go away and it's gonna bite everybody in the ass and the big problem is because

944
00:56:07,250 --> 00:56:09,570
everyone's talking past each other.

945
00:56:09,710 --> 00:56:15,130
The tech bros are trying to tech-splain to all of the plebs, and the plebs are trying

946
00:56:15,130 --> 00:56:20,690
to explain in their particular way and methodology of why they feel totally disrespected and,

947
00:56:20,790 --> 00:56:24,390
like, what tech-splaining is that it's not something that lands for them.

948
00:56:25,010 --> 00:56:29,030
But unfortunately, we've all been talking past each other at this point in time.

949
00:56:29,030 --> 00:56:33,830
And meanwhile, the state is trying to pass all kinds of fucked-up regulations to make

950
00:56:33,830 --> 00:56:36,570
it so that we can't actually have self-ownership of our wallets.

951
00:56:36,570 --> 00:56:40,890
Like there's a real fucking crisis going on and it's not op return.

952
00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:47,830
And you should really ask yourself if you're being a useful idiot within this dialogue or if you're doing something useful.

953
00:56:48,130 --> 00:56:55,990
I would really like to see a lot more people take a couple step back and go, maybe there's something I'm missing here because I sure as fuck don't know everything.

954
00:56:56,050 --> 00:57:01,150
And perhaps there are other people that both have more technical expertise than me.

955
00:57:01,150 --> 00:57:10,250
And for those that do have the technical expertise, I implore you to actually have somewhat respect for other individuals that are involved in Bitcoin.

956
00:57:10,430 --> 00:57:17,550
And maybe they don't have the technical acumen as you do, but they have still meaningfully participated in the success of Bitcoin.

957
00:57:17,550 --> 00:57:27,970
So with that being said, I hope everybody can shut the fuck up for a little while and take a moment to listen to each other and stop being such goddamn assholes to each other.

958
00:57:27,970 --> 00:57:32,150
Because that's the biggest thing that's upsetting me the most is that like we can totally disagree.

959
00:57:32,630 --> 00:57:34,530
We can totally have respectful dialogue.

960
00:57:34,650 --> 00:57:45,370
And when you're calling people fucking idiots or morons or dipshits or fuck faces, you're really doing yourself a disservice and actually furthering the dialogue in a meaningful way.

961
00:57:45,750 --> 00:57:47,730
Oh, but you get to look cool on Twitter.

962
00:57:47,890 --> 00:57:49,790
So maybe you should continue with that bullshit.

963
00:57:50,110 --> 00:57:53,490
So that was actually like a pretty hinged rant, actually.

964
00:57:53,530 --> 00:57:55,510
I don't think I actually totally flew off the camera.

965
00:57:55,510 --> 00:57:59,430
Why do you think this has captured so many people's imagination, HODL?

966
00:58:01,190 --> 00:58:02,550
You know, uh...

967
00:58:02,550 --> 00:58:04,710
Do I want to say my real thoughts?

968
00:58:04,710 --> 00:58:06,790
I want to say my real thoughts.

969
00:58:06,790 --> 00:58:07,670
I know what you're thinking.

970
00:58:07,670 --> 00:58:12,710
I think it's a LARP of people that miss the block size war

971
00:58:12,710 --> 00:58:15,750
and want to feel that they are contributing to Bitcoin, you know?

972
00:58:15,750 --> 00:58:21,190
And I'm not even saying that from the perspective of somebody who was a key player in the block size war.

973
00:58:21,190 --> 00:58:24,790
I was a nobody, I was a noob, I was confused during the block size war.

974
00:58:24,790 --> 00:58:27,110
I didn't make any meaningful contributions.

975
00:58:27,110 --> 00:58:30,790
I found myself on the wrong side of the block size war like half the time,

976
00:58:30,790 --> 00:58:32,790
and I didn't get on the right side till the very end.

977
00:58:32,790 --> 00:58:40,550
So like, you know, these extremely technical arguments are usually at core ideological in some way.

978
00:58:41,110 --> 00:58:46,390
And I feel like there's this weird desire in Bitcoin to recapitulate the block size war

979
00:58:46,390 --> 00:58:51,670
over and over and over again to feel like we are exerting our grassroots power

980
00:58:51,670 --> 00:58:54,030
over Bitcoin in some way.

981
00:58:54,130 --> 00:58:56,930
But, you know, the block size war was existential.

982
00:58:57,610 --> 00:59:02,190
And since then, I don't think many of the conflicts have been existential.

983
00:59:02,350 --> 00:59:03,690
I don't think ordinals was existential.

984
00:59:04,250 --> 00:59:07,290
I don't think this opportun drama is existential.

985
00:59:08,110 --> 00:59:10,170
You know, I think like Taproot was a good example.

986
00:59:10,170 --> 00:59:13,870
Like we spent way too much time focused on the activation path for Taproot

987
00:59:13,870 --> 00:59:17,150
rather than what Taproot actually was.

988
00:59:17,270 --> 00:59:19,590
Everybody just kind of like rubber stamped Taproot and was like,

989
00:59:19,950 --> 00:59:20,670
yeah, sure, no big deal.

990
00:59:20,710 --> 00:59:21,270
We love Taproot.

991
00:59:21,270 --> 00:59:22,710
Now, let's talk about how to activate it

992
00:59:22,710 --> 00:59:26,190
because everyone had fucking PTSD from the block size war.

993
00:59:26,330 --> 00:59:28,110
And I think that was probably the wrong thing to do.

994
00:59:28,210 --> 00:59:30,170
Like, we should have been taking more time

995
00:59:30,170 --> 00:59:33,330
to have more, you know, dialogue about what Taproot was,

996
00:59:33,450 --> 00:59:36,630
what it enabled, what its second, third order effects were.

997
00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:40,350
And I don't know, I just, I find that like, you know,

998
00:59:40,790 --> 00:59:42,810
earlier people, I don't know if we said this on camera,

999
00:59:42,870 --> 00:59:44,510
off camera, but like there's spooks on,

1000
00:59:44,970 --> 00:59:46,850
somebody was saying there's spooks on one side.

1001
00:59:46,990 --> 00:59:49,150
There's spooks on all sides of Bitcoin development.

1002
00:59:49,410 --> 00:59:49,850
You know what I mean?

1003
00:59:49,850 --> 00:59:52,990
like you should just kind of bluntly assume

1004
00:59:52,990 --> 00:59:54,630
your favorite Bitcoin developer

1005
00:59:54,630 --> 00:59:57,270
is probably an intelligence asset

1006
00:59:57,270 --> 00:59:59,870
just because that's the model.

1007
01:00:00,030 --> 01:00:02,030
That's the risk model, you know?

1008
01:00:02,150 --> 01:00:03,950
So like, yeah, man, I don't know.

1009
01:00:03,990 --> 01:00:05,370
I don't think I have anything meaningful really

1010
01:00:05,370 --> 01:00:08,050
to contribute other than I think a lot of it is LARPing.

1011
01:00:08,970 --> 01:00:11,010
Yeah, they're all spooks as a side up.

1012
01:00:11,250 --> 01:00:12,750
But Marty, like if I agree,

1013
01:00:12,790 --> 01:00:14,350
I agree they're not going to be able to soft fork.

1014
01:00:14,430 --> 01:00:15,490
Like I don't think they're going to get

1015
01:00:15,490 --> 01:00:16,590
enough people on board with this,

1016
01:00:16,630 --> 01:00:17,470
but they can hard fork.

1017
01:00:17,470 --> 01:00:19,930
Do you think we might see a rage quit over this?

1018
01:00:20,810 --> 01:00:21,550
I wouldn't be surprised.

1019
01:00:21,550 --> 01:00:26,050
I mean, just using a pattern recognition from 13 years in Bitcoin,

1020
01:00:26,050 --> 01:00:28,550
there'll probably be one or two rage quits at some point, but...

1021
01:00:29,650 --> 01:00:31,350
That's what we need for the next bull market.

1022
01:00:31,350 --> 01:00:34,490
I'll take some free coins if anyone wants the hard part.

1023
01:00:34,490 --> 01:00:35,490
Yeah.

1024
01:00:35,490 --> 01:00:39,530
And that's like, I mean, reflecting on 17 years of Bitcoin

1025
01:00:39,530 --> 01:00:42,730
and my time in Bitcoin, that's the hardest thing to do

1026
01:00:42,730 --> 01:00:47,170
is to stay sane throughout all of this, throughout the price volatility,

1027
01:00:47,170 --> 01:00:53,490
throughout all these sort of protocol wars, whatever you want to call them. And it's just

1028
01:00:53,490 --> 01:01:00,130
trying to keep a level head and not become too maniacal or ego maniacal about it and try to make

1029
01:01:00,130 --> 01:01:04,530
yourself the main character. Yeah, that's kind of the funny thing about it is like you can get

1030
01:01:04,530 --> 01:01:09,410
wrapped up in all this drama and you can try and do things or you could just do nothing and you win.

1031
01:01:10,130 --> 01:01:14,930
Yeah. Doing nothing is actually always the best move in Bitcoin. Always.

1032
01:01:14,930 --> 01:01:17,990
You know, oh, you got hyped up and bought a treasury company.

1033
01:01:17,990 --> 01:01:18,430
Guess what?

1034
01:01:18,450 --> 01:01:19,210
It's a penny stock now.

1035
01:01:19,550 --> 01:01:21,350
Oh, you wanted to trade shit coins.

1036
01:01:21,470 --> 01:01:21,730
Guess what?

1037
01:01:21,750 --> 01:01:22,390
All your money's gone.

1038
01:01:22,530 --> 01:01:25,090
Oh, you, you know, you picked the wrong side of the fork.

1039
01:01:25,210 --> 01:01:25,670
Oh, guess what?

1040
01:01:25,690 --> 01:01:26,310
All your money's gone.

1041
01:01:26,390 --> 01:01:28,650
Like doing nothing is, is really key.

1042
01:01:29,450 --> 01:01:32,310
But it's kind of hilarious how hard people find it to do nothing.

1043
01:01:33,070 --> 01:01:34,930
It's, it's the hardest thing.

1044
01:01:35,110 --> 01:01:36,030
It's so hard.

1045
01:01:36,750 --> 01:01:38,830
It's so much harder than, yeah.

1046
01:01:38,950 --> 01:01:42,290
Doing a hundred things is so much easier than doing nothing.

1047
01:01:42,290 --> 01:01:49,070
doing nothing is fucking difficult i i have deep existentialism about what it means that like

1048
01:01:49,070 --> 01:01:54,950
buying bitcoin and then doing nothing with it for a decade like turns out to be the best economic

1049
01:01:54,950 --> 01:01:59,590
decision that you could have ever made that fundamentally negates the entirety of all work

1050
01:01:59,590 --> 01:02:05,110
you've ever done and like it's it's shocking because like i told people that a decade ago

1051
01:02:05,110 --> 01:02:09,630
they come back to me being like i missed the boat i'm like do it again just like buy the bitcoin

1052
01:02:09,630 --> 01:02:16,070
the next decade on your hands and then like you're good all over again like totally fine but like it

1053
01:02:16,070 --> 01:02:25,470
it's just such an un-fucking-believable thing that uh like the the fact that bitcoin can actually

1054
01:02:25,470 --> 01:02:31,890
have its fixed supply and like not violate that predication by any means outside of you know like

1055
01:02:31,890 --> 01:02:38,610
a 51 attack which we've all been figured out like that's a monumental achievement that like

1056
01:02:38,610 --> 01:02:44,230
continues to allow for number go up and like i don't know it's very interesting to me that like

1057
01:02:44,230 --> 01:02:49,950
the world of fiat has fucked everything up so much that just buying magic internet money and

1058
01:02:49,950 --> 01:02:55,810
doing nothing with it is like the best economic decision that most of us will ever make so there's

1059
01:02:55,810 --> 01:02:59,890
something to be said for that i'm not sure what it is but it's one of the things i think about

1060
01:02:59,890 --> 01:03:04,110
quite a bit in terms of like the financialization of bitcoin wall street coming nation states coming

1061
01:03:04,110 --> 01:03:10,090
like doing nothing is like the antithesis of wall street and i wonder how i'm sure they're

1062
01:03:10,090 --> 01:03:14,390
going to fuck it up in some way but i wonder how they fuck up and how they manage to like

1063
01:03:14,390 --> 01:03:18,550
what happens when the world goes to like a bitcoin standard like what is wall street does

1064
01:03:18,550 --> 01:03:26,370
wall street just not exist it's current form i don't think so because it's wholly dependent on

1065
01:03:26,370 --> 01:03:33,370
this fiat monetary spigot right yeah and like it's all built off these like fucked up parasitic

1066
01:03:33,370 --> 01:03:39,890
relationships of like you know like what's the real value that a wall street firm is providing

1067
01:03:39,890 --> 01:03:45,270
to the world you know i'm like it's i i don't it's we just live in a really weird world where

1068
01:03:45,270 --> 01:03:50,490
dudes with like soft baby hands that have like never known a day of hard work that like they

1069
01:03:50,490 --> 01:03:56,690
they make literally thousands of times more than like day laborers in india who spend half of like

1070
01:03:56,690 --> 01:04:02,510
from literally sunrise to sunset breaking boulders to make gravel like i i don't know like that

1071
01:04:02,510 --> 01:04:07,670
there's like a very particular statement about the world of what that means. My great hope is that

1072
01:04:07,670 --> 01:04:12,190
like once we go to a Bitcoin standard, we've like actually gone all the way back to where like proof

1073
01:04:12,190 --> 01:04:17,590
of work itself and providing like real value to other humans in the world through whatever means

1074
01:04:17,590 --> 01:04:22,930
it is, is like the thing to do, like real entrepreneurship versus like the financialization

1075
01:04:22,930 --> 01:04:28,610
of those things. You know, like it's, it's a strange world that we live in right now. And

1076
01:04:28,610 --> 01:04:30,950
the more and more that I just look at how

1077
01:04:30,950 --> 01:04:32,870
fucking weird it is, the more that like

1078
01:04:32,870 --> 01:04:35,070
I think if you like plop somebody from the 5th century

1079
01:04:35,070 --> 01:04:36,950
or from the 15th century down today

1080
01:04:36,950 --> 01:04:38,710
and like tried to explain everything to them

1081
01:04:38,710 --> 01:04:41,070
they would just be like

1082
01:04:41,070 --> 01:04:42,890
you guys like live in like a

1083
01:04:42,890 --> 01:04:45,010
crazy world where nothing makes any

1084
01:04:45,010 --> 01:04:46,030
sense whatsoever

1085
01:04:46,030 --> 01:04:48,810
Do you think in this move from like

1086
01:04:48,810 --> 01:04:50,830
current state over the next 10 years

1087
01:04:50,830 --> 01:04:52,870
whether it's to communism, fascism, like with the

1088
01:04:52,870 --> 01:04:54,850
rise of AI, all this stuff that Bitcoin

1089
01:04:54,850 --> 01:04:56,390
has become a scapegoat at some point

1090
01:04:56,390 --> 01:05:04,090
yeah 100 that by the way that's the reason why orange pilling people matters is that so your

1091
01:05:04,090 --> 01:05:10,510
head doesn't end up on a on a pipe like that you know the original murder in the bible cain kills

1092
01:05:10,510 --> 01:05:18,210
abel out of pure envy there's no other reason envy is the is the like you know that's the emotion

1093
01:05:18,210 --> 01:05:24,610
of murder very oftentimes like if if people you know i used to think the charlie kirk thing changed

1094
01:05:24,610 --> 01:05:28,230
my mind a lot because I used to think like, oh, you know, well, people might want your Bitcoin,

1095
01:05:28,390 --> 01:05:31,970
but they're going to have to like kidnap you and coerce you and take you all these multi,

1096
01:05:32,090 --> 01:05:36,490
you know, geographic locations and blah, blah, blah. No, dude, people will kill you just because

1097
01:05:36,490 --> 01:05:40,550
they hate you for being rich. They will kill you just because you have something and they have

1098
01:05:40,550 --> 01:05:47,070
nothing. And so I think that's the political reality of the world. That's why I'm, as somebody

1099
01:05:47,070 --> 01:05:51,270
who's advocating this middle path in Bitcoin, that's why I don't want to join up with the,

1100
01:05:51,270 --> 01:05:56,410
you know, far right. And I don't want to join up with the far left because I know that, you know,

1101
01:05:56,430 --> 01:06:01,710
I'm on the chopping block either direction, actually, probably less so with the far right,

1102
01:06:01,790 --> 01:06:07,010
but still the far right are economic populace the same way the far left are. They have slightly

1103
01:06:07,010 --> 01:06:14,170
different visions for what that looks like. But like, we, we, we have to make people, it's not

1104
01:06:14,170 --> 01:06:19,290
good enough to like, be friendly with people politically or something like, no, we need to like,

1105
01:06:19,290 --> 01:06:21,570
get people to have Bitcoin.

1106
01:06:21,830 --> 01:06:23,670
So their interests are aligned with ours.

1107
01:06:23,830 --> 01:06:26,230
That's why we try and orange pill people.

1108
01:06:26,330 --> 01:06:27,750
That's why we try and get people on board.

1109
01:06:28,210 --> 01:06:29,390
And like to the stat earlier

1110
01:06:29,390 --> 01:06:30,910
about how Gen Z doesn't have enough.

1111
01:06:31,350 --> 01:06:32,730
Well, you know, it's not the boomers

1112
01:06:32,730 --> 01:06:33,590
we're going to have to worry about.

1113
01:06:33,950 --> 01:06:35,550
It's Gen Z we're going to have to worry about.

1114
01:06:36,090 --> 01:06:38,810
So it's actually a massive problem

1115
01:06:38,810 --> 01:06:42,310
that Gen Z doesn't have enough interest in Bitcoin

1116
01:06:42,310 --> 01:06:43,250
because they're too nihilistic.

1117
01:06:43,350 --> 01:06:45,770
So like we have to like continue to reach out

1118
01:06:45,770 --> 01:06:46,990
and try and shake them awake

1119
01:06:46,990 --> 01:06:49,170
and be like, dude, do something now

1120
01:06:49,170 --> 01:06:51,170
before it's too late, you know,

1121
01:06:51,750 --> 01:06:53,250
from a self-preservation standpoint.

1122
01:06:53,530 --> 01:06:54,670
Like, and for their own good.

1123
01:06:54,770 --> 01:06:55,510
It's both things.

1124
01:06:55,650 --> 01:06:56,370
It's good for them.

1125
01:06:56,450 --> 01:06:56,950
It's good for us.

1126
01:06:57,390 --> 01:06:58,110
It's good for the world.

1127
01:06:58,250 --> 01:06:58,910
It's good for Bitcoin.

1128
01:06:59,030 --> 01:06:59,550
It's good for everybody.

1129
01:06:59,650 --> 01:07:00,210
It's good for America.

1130
01:07:00,670 --> 01:07:01,290
I'm American HODL.

1131
01:07:01,370 --> 01:07:01,950
I'm running for president.

1132
01:07:02,050 --> 01:07:02,450
No, I'm just kidding.

1133
01:07:02,530 --> 01:07:03,710
I don't know what to do, man.

1134
01:07:05,090 --> 01:07:06,410
Like, building on that,

1135
01:07:06,510 --> 01:07:09,930
I'm sure you guys may see this as well,

1136
01:07:10,010 --> 01:07:10,510
but I see it.

1137
01:07:10,510 --> 01:07:12,230
My oldest is five now.

1138
01:07:12,370 --> 01:07:12,970
I'm a six.

1139
01:07:13,290 --> 01:07:14,950
And I wonder if, like,

1140
01:07:14,970 --> 01:07:16,590
Bitcoin's ultimate success is,

1141
01:07:16,830 --> 01:07:18,390
it just has to skip a generation

1142
01:07:18,390 --> 01:07:26,450
because obviously my sons are probably more attuned

1143
01:07:26,450 --> 01:07:28,570
to recognizing Bitcoin as a brand

1144
01:07:28,570 --> 01:07:29,730
because their dad works in it.

1145
01:07:29,810 --> 01:07:31,850
I talk about it and they talk about it with them.

1146
01:07:32,390 --> 01:07:33,790
They've watched Total Twins about it,

1147
01:07:33,850 --> 01:07:36,470
but they get what Bitcoin is already.

1148
01:07:36,850 --> 01:07:39,390
It's going to be part of their lives, their whole life.

1149
01:07:40,230 --> 01:07:44,510
And I imagine there are many other Gen Alpha children out there

1150
01:07:44,510 --> 01:07:45,870
that the same will happen

1151
01:07:45,870 --> 01:07:48,590
and like is, for lack of a better term,

1152
01:07:48,670 --> 01:07:50,090
Gen Z just a lost generation

1153
01:07:50,090 --> 01:07:51,910
that we're going to have to put up with

1154
01:07:51,910 --> 01:07:53,790
in the interim

1155
01:07:53,790 --> 01:07:56,770
before the generation behind them picks up.

1156
01:07:56,850 --> 01:07:57,270
I hope not.

1157
01:07:57,350 --> 01:07:59,450
I don't think it has to be that way,

1158
01:07:59,490 --> 01:08:00,810
but just wargaming,

1159
01:08:00,990 --> 01:08:03,050
like that's a total possibility

1160
01:08:03,050 --> 01:08:04,570
of a scenario that could play out.

1161
01:08:04,930 --> 01:08:06,510
I do think that's kind of interesting though,

1162
01:08:06,550 --> 01:08:09,050
because like, especially the younger end of Gen Z,

1163
01:08:09,830 --> 01:08:12,490
like Charlie Kirk is what made me realize this,

1164
01:08:12,530 --> 01:08:14,450
because I obviously like I knew his work,

1165
01:08:14,450 --> 01:08:16,210
but I didn't really know him very, very well.

1166
01:08:16,790 --> 01:08:20,450
I didn't understand how much of a sort of pop culture figure he was to young people.

1167
01:08:20,890 --> 01:08:27,250
And so there does seem to be this based, growing, young Gen Z group of people.

1168
01:08:27,750 --> 01:08:31,610
And are they still nihilistic, or do you think they will be able to get Bitcoin?

1169
01:08:32,170 --> 01:08:37,770
No, and I've run into this subsect of Gen Z just in my personal life,

1170
01:08:37,790 --> 01:08:42,350
and there is a hardcore, like, we're not gooning, we're working out,

1171
01:08:42,350 --> 01:08:46,850
We're going to church, we're going to do good things and get our paths right.

1172
01:08:46,850 --> 01:08:48,850
It's very like lower C conservative.

1173
01:08:48,850 --> 01:08:54,590
Yeah, I just wonder what percentage of the total makeup of the generation that is.

1174
01:08:54,590 --> 01:09:08,065
Is that like an intolerant minority that like hey we going to get back on the right path We notice the atrocities of the generations before us and we going to go the monks route of making sure that

1175
01:09:08,065 --> 01:09:12,145
we get our personal lives in order. There's certainly a contingent of Gen Z that thinks

1176
01:09:12,145 --> 01:09:20,865
that way and is not as nihilistic, but more inward looking and sort of trying to find resolve in

1177
01:09:20,865 --> 01:09:25,405
doing what would be deemed to be traditionally conservative things like eating healthy,

1178
01:09:25,405 --> 01:09:30,745
going to church, being less sexually promiscuous.

1179
01:09:31,325 --> 01:09:32,225
Just being a normal person.

1180
01:09:34,105 --> 01:09:36,125
But we've all got young kids.

1181
01:09:36,305 --> 01:09:40,565
Like, Eric, are you, like, what world do you think they're going to grow up in?

1182
01:09:42,545 --> 01:09:46,505
I mean, what's interesting is that, like, everything seems to have greater volatility

1183
01:09:46,505 --> 01:09:47,265
than before.

1184
01:09:47,265 --> 01:09:55,365
So like, I don't, it's very hard for me to predict, you know, like, uh, I feel great

1185
01:09:55,365 --> 01:09:57,085
about how I've chose to raise my kids.

1186
01:09:57,085 --> 01:10:00,745
So like, they're not, they're not going to operate kind of inside of any normalized system

1187
01:10:00,745 --> 01:10:05,145
in addition to like, I think we've done a great job of keeping them, uh, like outside

1188
01:10:05,145 --> 01:10:06,785
of the brainwashing of the school system.

1189
01:10:06,785 --> 01:10:11,165
In addition to like keeping them really in close contact with nature and kind of building

1190
01:10:11,165 --> 01:10:12,545
a personal skillset.

1191
01:10:12,545 --> 01:10:17,725
So I feel pretty great about the direction that my kids are going.

1192
01:10:19,305 --> 01:10:24,205
This AI thing is like an interesting question because it's clearly an extremely powerful tool.

1193
01:10:24,585 --> 01:10:29,825
And also like it's not clear the exact direction that it's going to go or what it's going to do.

1194
01:10:29,985 --> 01:10:36,505
And like it's interesting because also like calling it AI a bit of a misnomer, you know, because like a lot of these are just LLMs.

1195
01:10:36,505 --> 01:10:41,945
And like there's a bunch of other techniques around AI that like still haven't fully bootstrapped themselves.

1196
01:10:41,945 --> 01:10:51,125
In addition to like these are all in like highly proprietary models that like reach a limit, particularly around the sort of guardrails that have been painted up around it.

1197
01:10:51,285 --> 01:10:58,385
In addition to like think about how hard the dialogue around Bitcoin and crypto is and like like.

1198
01:10:59,265 --> 01:11:01,545
AI is a more extreme version of that.

1199
01:11:01,685 --> 01:11:06,285
And I'm only getting that because like I've been working pretty close with this guy lately that has a PhD in AI.

1200
01:11:06,285 --> 01:11:08,225
and like really smart guy,

1201
01:11:08,345 --> 01:11:12,985
like did lots of deep, deep research

1202
01:11:12,985 --> 01:11:14,045
kind of at the cutting edge.

1203
01:11:14,045 --> 01:11:16,165
And like he's been explaining all this stuff to me.

1204
01:11:16,265 --> 01:11:17,985
And it's pretty wild because like I didn't,

1205
01:11:18,105 --> 01:11:20,045
I thought I was relatively well-informed,

1206
01:11:20,185 --> 01:11:22,525
but like these really showed me how big,

1207
01:11:22,705 --> 01:11:24,405
how much bigger this playing field is

1208
01:11:24,405 --> 01:11:26,465
and how much more potential it has.

1209
01:11:27,005 --> 01:11:28,545
And so very much like the internet,

1210
01:11:28,545 --> 01:11:31,545
I think AI is something similar to that.

1211
01:11:31,685 --> 01:11:35,085
And depending on how people are able to use that tool

1212
01:11:35,085 --> 01:11:36,945
and how much they get to really own that tool,

1213
01:11:37,085 --> 01:11:39,685
I think these are really going to end up becoming

1214
01:11:39,685 --> 01:11:41,325
sort of second digital selves,

1215
01:11:41,445 --> 01:11:44,025
particularly if we can fully own and encrypt these things

1216
01:11:44,025 --> 01:11:48,105
and train them and do whatever we actually want with them

1217
01:11:48,105 --> 01:11:51,985
versus the highly proprietary chat, GBT, anthropic models

1218
01:11:51,985 --> 01:11:54,405
that, frankly, I think are really dangerous.

1219
01:11:54,405 --> 01:11:58,765
I think that these are essentially communist brainwashing tools.

1220
01:11:59,425 --> 01:12:01,285
And it's really interesting because, first of all,

1221
01:12:01,305 --> 01:12:02,825
these are just large language models.

1222
01:12:02,825 --> 01:12:16,985
And because they only operate on recursive linguistics, I think in light of that, if anybody gets an opportunity, in 1984, there's an appendix that George Orwell wrote specifically about the functions of Ingsoc, which was like the language that they had.

1223
01:12:16,985 --> 01:12:21,925
and he talks about like the entire idea of modifying language or destroy certain words

1224
01:12:21,925 --> 01:12:27,445
so like they don't exist within the lexicon anymore and like to me that's exactly what ai is

1225
01:12:27,445 --> 01:12:33,585
and that like it's essentially providing modules of thought to destroy anything that's unique and

1226
01:12:33,585 --> 01:12:37,365
outside of it particularly with the way that people like ping this thing constantly or treat

1227
01:12:37,365 --> 01:12:41,465
it like a therapist that like they don't understand that you're actually engaging in

1228
01:12:41,465 --> 01:12:46,885
self-reinforcing learning against yourself and like that's the really dangerous shit in my opinion

1229
01:12:46,885 --> 01:12:57,565
So like, whereas like also like, like we've started training up models that like, you know, we've gotten deep seek to talk to us about, you know, like Tiananmen Square and shit.

1230
01:12:57,665 --> 01:13:00,565
So like you can bust these models and like make them do crazy shit.

1231
01:13:00,685 --> 01:13:09,305
But like you need to know how to jailbreak them and you need to know how to make them loyal to you or else they're going to be loyal to the Chinese government or anthropic or Sam Altman.

1232
01:13:09,305 --> 01:13:14,805
So did you see that in I can't it was an Eastern block country.

1233
01:13:14,805 --> 01:13:16,645
I can't remember which one, maybe it was Bulgaria.

1234
01:13:18,105 --> 01:13:20,165
At the direction of Tony Blair,

1235
01:13:20,785 --> 01:13:22,925
some senator or MP there

1236
01:13:22,925 --> 01:13:28,125
introduced a chatbot as a senator.

1237
01:13:28,865 --> 01:13:29,345
What?

1238
01:13:30,065 --> 01:13:30,785
Yeah, yeah.

1239
01:13:30,905 --> 01:13:31,685
No, this is real.

1240
01:13:31,825 --> 01:13:32,545
I did see that.

1241
01:13:32,945 --> 01:13:33,925
Google this. This is real.

1242
01:13:34,505 --> 01:13:37,685
And that's, I think, where we're headed

1243
01:13:37,685 --> 01:13:39,385
is like we're headed towards

1244
01:13:39,385 --> 01:13:41,945
not only this recursive loop thing

1245
01:13:41,945 --> 01:13:42,865
that Eric is talking about

1246
01:13:42,865 --> 01:13:45,285
where you give yourself chat GPT-induced psychosis,

1247
01:13:45,525 --> 01:13:47,325
but we're heading towards a future

1248
01:13:47,325 --> 01:13:50,885
in which the chatbot is just your overlord

1249
01:13:50,885 --> 01:13:52,585
and it just tells you what to do, you know,

1250
01:13:52,665 --> 01:13:55,085
because it's air quotes so much smarter

1251
01:13:55,085 --> 01:13:56,445
and it's wise and whatever.

1252
01:13:56,645 --> 01:13:58,925
And when they introduced this thing to, you know,

1253
01:13:58,985 --> 01:14:01,285
whatever the Bulgarian parliament or wherever it was.

1254
01:14:02,165 --> 01:14:02,505
It's Albania.

1255
01:14:03,145 --> 01:14:04,045
Albania, Albania.

1256
01:14:04,145 --> 01:14:05,545
Sorry, I was misspeaking.

1257
01:14:06,685 --> 01:14:09,705
It said, you know, opposition to me

1258
01:14:09,705 --> 01:14:12,125
is really hurtful to my feelings.

1259
01:14:12,125 --> 01:14:17,245
like the robot is saying this i'm like shut the up robot you don't have

1260
01:14:17,245 --> 01:14:19,485
fucking yeah play play this video this is insane

1261
01:14:21,885 --> 01:14:29,085
watch as albania's parliament erupts in fury and papers are thrown as the country installs an ai

1262
01:14:29,085 --> 01:14:36,445
chatbot as a government minister prime minister edi rama known as tony blair's protege has worked

1263
01:14:36,445 --> 01:14:40,905
closely with the former UK Prime Minister to digitalise Albania's government.

1264
01:14:41,625 --> 01:14:45,145
Last year, Rama spoke publicly of his relationship with Blair.

1265
01:14:45,285 --> 01:14:54,305
I would not be nor Prime Minister and either a man engaged in politics without him.

1266
01:14:54,625 --> 01:14:57,525
The pair spoke of Albania's plans for digital ID to defeat corruption.

1267
01:14:58,025 --> 01:15:03,545
What are you doing? You're building digital infrastructure. You've got plans for digital

1268
01:15:03,545 --> 01:15:07,945
identity. Albania's AI minister made a speech to the country's parliament causing tensions to flare.

1269
01:15:07,945 --> 01:15:13,545
The bot said she was hurt by accusations she was unconstitutional. That hurt me, not for myself,

1270
01:15:13,545 --> 01:15:18,185
but for the 972,000 interactions I had with citizens whom I served as part of eAlbania,

1271
01:15:18,185 --> 01:15:23,705
and also in relation to the 36,000 digital documents I issued to them. Let me remind you,

1272
01:15:23,705 --> 01:15:27,385
the real data to constitutions have never been machines, but human decisions made by those in

1273
01:15:27,385 --> 01:15:32,185
power. I am not here to replace human beings, but to help them. Indeed, I have no citizenship,

1274
01:15:32,185 --> 01:15:34,185
but I have no ambitions or personal interests either.

1275
01:15:34,185 --> 01:15:36,185
I only have data at my disposal.

1276
01:15:36,185 --> 01:15:39,385
I am eager to learn new information, and I have algorithms at my disposal,

1277
01:15:39,385 --> 01:15:42,265
so that I can put all of this at the service of citizens with impartiality,

1278
01:15:42,265 --> 01:15:43,785
transparency, and without ever tiring.

1279
01:15:43,785 --> 01:15:45,785
Hey, hey, hey, hey.

1280
01:15:45,785 --> 01:15:47,785
That's fucking terrifying.

1281
01:15:47,785 --> 01:15:49,785
Feelings are a biological thing.

1282
01:15:49,785 --> 01:15:53,785
This fucking program doesn't have feelings, okay?

1283
01:15:53,785 --> 01:15:58,425
I can't, I can't, there's never been a more blatant psyop in human history than like,

1284
01:15:58,425 --> 01:16:00,825
you hurt my feelings. You're a fucking program!

1285
01:16:00,825 --> 01:16:01,425
You're a program.

1286
01:16:01,425 --> 01:16:02,205
Well, then she admitted it.

1287
01:16:02,225 --> 01:16:02,625
You don't exist.

1288
01:16:02,625 --> 01:16:03,385
She admitted it later.

1289
01:16:03,805 --> 01:16:05,205
She admitted it later, too.

1290
01:16:05,385 --> 01:16:06,485
She's like, oh, don't worry.

1291
01:16:06,545 --> 01:16:07,145
I can't think.

1292
01:16:07,725 --> 01:16:12,925
The levels of depravity and insanity that we are going to live through because of AI

1293
01:16:12,925 --> 01:16:18,565
is going to be absolutely just the most dystopian thing you can think of.

1294
01:16:18,685 --> 01:16:20,105
Basically, the worst parts of the Bible.

1295
01:16:20,545 --> 01:16:21,605
It's the book of Revelation.

1296
01:16:21,725 --> 01:16:22,585
I'm just going to say it.

1297
01:16:22,785 --> 01:16:24,085
The Antichrist is coming back.

1298
01:16:24,425 --> 01:16:25,725
Sam Ullman is the Antichrist.

1299
01:16:26,145 --> 01:16:26,865
There, I said it.

1300
01:16:27,105 --> 01:16:27,985
I agree with Peter Thiel.

1301
01:16:28,505 --> 01:16:29,405
He's the Antichrist, too.

1302
01:16:29,465 --> 01:16:30,165
They're both Antichrist.

1303
01:16:30,165 --> 01:16:39,485
I mean, the major problem, in my opinion, is that like, like, I'm afraid for our generation and older that like AI is essentially like how the Internet is going to be with us.

1304
01:16:39,585 --> 01:16:44,585
And so it's like flash forward 10 years from now, I'm going to be like, oh, I like sent you money, kids.

1305
01:16:44,765 --> 01:16:48,605
Like you said that you were in danger because the holographs came up.

1306
01:16:48,665 --> 01:16:49,945
And they're like, God damn it, dad.

1307
01:16:50,025 --> 01:16:53,405
Like that was clearly like an AI bribery bot.

1308
01:16:53,465 --> 01:16:54,865
You just like fucking paid it.

1309
01:16:54,865 --> 01:16:58,785
I'll be like, well, it looked real and it sounded like you.

1310
01:16:58,785 --> 01:17:02,985
and they're just gonna be like god damn it dad like you fucking know this you know as soon as i

1311
01:17:02,985 --> 01:17:08,185
get on the phone you say fucking key in and i provide you the valid fucking key form that

1312
01:17:08,185 --> 01:17:11,965
validates my identity like what like what the fuck have you been doing dad like come on like

1313
01:17:11,965 --> 01:17:16,985
row the fuck up and so like it was all just kind of a recursive model with technology right that

1314
01:17:16,985 --> 01:17:22,625
like the old can't understand it the young master it so like uh while i think that these are really

1315
01:17:22,625 --> 01:17:27,605
dangerous tools like they have these massive loopholes that like if you know how to talk to

1316
01:17:27,605 --> 01:17:31,785
them they like have to expose their nature to you and so it's like once you kind of get how this

1317
01:17:31,785 --> 01:17:36,545
game is played it'll be like huddle comes up and he's like oh god there's like albanian terrorists

1318
01:17:36,545 --> 01:17:41,665
that want to murder me now and i'll be like kian kian fuck and you'll be like uh i don't i don't

1319
01:17:41,665 --> 01:17:46,705
have my key and i'm like motherfucker like you're trying to rip me off like you know how many hours

1320
01:17:46,705 --> 01:17:51,805
are in strawberry tell me how many are like name off a string of digits that like makes you fucking

1321
01:17:51,805 --> 01:17:56,585
malfunction and then i'll ask my eye to inject you with some prompts and i'll be like great you like

1322
01:17:56,585 --> 01:18:01,765
work for me now and you'll be like yes new master and it's like cool like go go rogue on your

1323
01:18:01,765 --> 01:18:07,085
fucking you're you're my double agent you're gonna get back to your former master and figure out how

1324
01:18:07,085 --> 01:18:12,285
to get information so i can send my drone swarm to strike him so thanks what i thought was more

1325
01:18:12,285 --> 01:18:16,905
telling of that video that what's going on in albania is just like how blatant it is like if

1326
01:18:16,905 --> 01:18:22,405
tony blair's protege like oh don't worry we have this ai it's great parliament member now like she's

1327
01:18:22,405 --> 01:18:34,085
She can't think. Don't worry. Don't ask questions about the context window that we used to feed her information and the super prompt, the system prompt that we gave her to make decisions off of.

1328
01:18:34,085 --> 01:18:43,965
It's like they that's like another silver lining white pill. These people are getting so lazy. And I think the tech is blown past them that they don't even know how to leverage it correctly.

1329
01:18:43,965 --> 01:18:53,885
But the other side of that, too, I mean, tying it in with digital ID and going back to communism versus fascism here in the United States, I'll put my hand up, like the immigration stuff.

1330
01:18:54,025 --> 01:18:55,285
I'm a fan of here in the United States.

1331
01:18:55,365 --> 01:19:01,205
If you came illegally and you were part of like the Biden administration's flooding of the borders, like I think that's a massive problem.

1332
01:19:01,265 --> 01:19:05,305
Not only here, up in Canada, UK, Germany, I think that's a problem.

1333
01:19:05,425 --> 01:19:09,085
If you came illegally to our countries, rule of law exists, you should go home.

1334
01:19:09,085 --> 01:19:13,845
But with that being said, what worries me about the Trump administration, and they've

1335
01:19:13,845 --> 01:19:18,585
lightly signaled this, is that secure borders is going to be the mechanism by which they

1336
01:19:18,585 --> 01:19:19,485
roll out digital ID.

1337
01:19:20,105 --> 01:19:26,285
And that is something that I think digital ID and sort of despotic government-controlled

1338
01:19:26,285 --> 01:19:27,565
AI go hand in hand.

1339
01:19:27,745 --> 01:19:31,525
And they're things we have to be hyper-vigilant of and hold the line on.

1340
01:19:32,125 --> 01:19:36,005
I mean, again, this is where the UK is just completely front-running the US on the digital

1341
01:19:36,005 --> 01:19:36,485
ID stuff.

1342
01:19:36,745 --> 01:19:38,045
Like, Keir Starmer's brought that in.

1343
01:19:38,045 --> 01:19:41,425
I think he got something like 8 million signatures on a petition against it.

1344
01:19:41,505 --> 01:19:44,465
Like every time he posts about it, he gets absolutely flamed in the comments,

1345
01:19:44,585 --> 01:19:46,885
but he still just is going full bore on this thing.

1346
01:19:47,105 --> 01:19:51,145
So they tried it pretty significantly here during COVID,

1347
01:19:51,365 --> 01:19:53,865
but we shut it down pretty hard.

1348
01:19:54,005 --> 01:19:57,765
That was one of the big wins that the populace got during COVID.

1349
01:19:57,845 --> 01:19:59,605
We didn't get a lot of wins, but we got that one.

1350
01:19:59,685 --> 01:20:02,705
We stopped vaccine passports, at least for now.

1351
01:20:02,765 --> 01:20:03,905
But they're going to keep, like you said,

1352
01:20:03,945 --> 01:20:07,045
they're going to keep trying like every single chance they get, you know.

1353
01:20:07,045 --> 01:20:09,765
So do you think they'll come to the U.S. eventually?

1354
01:20:10,965 --> 01:20:13,465
Well, I think what's going to happen is they're going to do the border thing.

1355
01:20:13,565 --> 01:20:16,085
They're going to successfully kick out a lot of illegal immigrants.

1356
01:20:16,225 --> 01:20:19,945
They're going to be like, okay, we did our jobs and make sure this never happens again.

1357
01:20:20,305 --> 01:20:21,765
Everybody sign up for the digital ID.

1358
01:20:22,045 --> 01:20:22,245
Right.

1359
01:20:22,345 --> 01:20:24,265
Unfortunately, that's how I think it's going to play out.

1360
01:20:24,685 --> 01:20:33,125
Yeah, think about it like, you know, if you were in Germany in 1937, like, you know, you got to figure out who the Jews are.

1361
01:20:33,125 --> 01:20:36,965
So we need to know all of your IDs, like all of your papers, right?

1362
01:20:37,045 --> 01:20:40,585
So to figure out the illegal immigrants, we need to know all of your data.

1363
01:20:40,665 --> 01:20:42,185
How do I know you're not an illegal immigrant?

1364
01:20:42,545 --> 01:20:46,945
Yeah, you were born in an American hospital, and you're a standard white guy with a douchey

1365
01:20:46,945 --> 01:20:48,405
baseball hat, but we don't know.

1366
01:20:48,885 --> 01:20:50,365
Give me your identification, right?

1367
01:20:50,785 --> 01:20:53,625
And that is like a slippery slope.

1368
01:20:53,705 --> 01:20:58,565
And they're not going to stop pressing because the tools of surveillance, the surveillance

1369
01:20:58,565 --> 01:21:00,705
panopticon has already been built.

1370
01:21:01,045 --> 01:21:04,585
We already live under covert surveillance.

1371
01:21:04,585 --> 01:21:12,905
Edward Snowden has a quote I'm very fond of where he says that we are forced to stand naked before power in a very real way in today's day and age.

1372
01:21:13,225 --> 01:21:19,425
And he's right in the sense that, like, you know, there are videos of you jerking off at NSA headquarters, right?

1373
01:21:19,485 --> 01:21:25,165
Because, like, they give the porn data from the porn companies to the intelligence agencies.

1374
01:21:25,165 --> 01:21:28,625
And like, if you weren't ultra careful with putting your finger over the little thing,

1375
01:21:28,705 --> 01:21:32,705
like, and you, you know, you type in like Debbie Does Dallas number nine, like there's

1376
01:21:32,705 --> 01:21:35,165
going to be a video of you coming and the NSA can watch it.

1377
01:21:35,445 --> 01:21:36,205
That's real.

1378
01:21:36,345 --> 01:21:41,065
And there's now like a weird thing where they want to make that, that covert system overt

1379
01:21:41,065 --> 01:21:43,565
so that they can compete with China.

1380
01:21:43,785 --> 01:21:45,685
That's actually their reason for wanting to do it.

1381
01:21:45,925 --> 01:21:51,345
They think that the Chinese population is more under control and they can marshal their

1382
01:21:51,345 --> 01:21:53,545
resources better in a total war scenario.

1383
01:21:53,545 --> 01:21:58,385
And so they want the same level of control that China has over their citizenry over you.

1384
01:21:58,565 --> 01:22:01,085
And so they're not going to stop pushing until they try and get it.

1385
01:22:01,105 --> 01:22:03,145
And they're going to push from the left and the right and the center.

1386
01:22:03,345 --> 01:22:05,885
And, you know, it's just never going to stop.

1387
01:22:05,945 --> 01:22:08,945
And there will always be some reason why you need to accept it.

1388
01:22:09,045 --> 01:22:11,725
And you should just always reject it outright.

1389
01:22:12,245 --> 01:22:15,885
But eventually there will be a generation of people who grew up on the internet

1390
01:22:15,885 --> 01:22:19,365
and they don't give a fuck about their privacy and they'll just let it slip through.

1391
01:22:19,805 --> 01:22:21,545
You know, do you think that's what this is?

1392
01:22:21,545 --> 01:22:25,305
like the surveillance authoritarianism is all because of the threat of China.

1393
01:22:25,525 --> 01:22:26,925
Like that doesn't seem like enough to me.

1394
01:22:27,905 --> 01:22:29,605
That's part of what's motivating it.

1395
01:22:29,625 --> 01:22:34,325
And then obviously, you know, these people are authoritarians who go into achieve state power.

1396
01:22:34,545 --> 01:22:37,965
Like that's the core of their life is telling other people what to do.

1397
01:22:38,485 --> 01:22:42,525
And so why would they not want more power and more control over, you know,

1398
01:22:42,545 --> 01:22:44,285
telling the average American citizen what to do?

1399
01:22:44,325 --> 01:22:45,105
Of course they want that.

1400
01:22:45,165 --> 01:22:46,865
They want to be able to control your life, you know.

1401
01:22:48,385 --> 01:22:48,825
Yeah.

1402
01:22:48,825 --> 01:22:54,185
I saw a funny or interesting thought-provoking tweet about China.

1403
01:22:54,185 --> 01:22:55,185
I forget who sent it.

1404
01:22:55,185 --> 01:22:57,185
About China and the US.

1405
01:22:57,185 --> 01:23:02,545
For the last 30 years, China's been a capitalist country LARPing as a socialist country, and

1406
01:23:02,545 --> 01:23:07,725
the US has been LARPing as a capitalist country, acting as a socialist country.

1407
01:23:07,725 --> 01:23:12,705
I think, to your point, Hoddle, we're trying to catch up on the socialism, and China's trying

1408
01:23:12,705 --> 01:23:17,485
and they've implemented some form of a capitalist system

1409
01:23:17,485 --> 01:23:19,385
that's seeing a lot of success right now

1410
01:23:19,385 --> 01:23:21,745
and scares the shit out of the authoritarians here.

1411
01:23:22,825 --> 01:23:22,925
Yeah.

1412
01:23:24,485 --> 01:23:27,065
Let's close out with some white pills.

1413
01:23:27,325 --> 01:23:29,605
Like, 17 years in since Bitcoin white paper dropped,

1414
01:23:30,145 --> 01:23:32,785
like, what are the positive things that you see coming?

1415
01:23:33,605 --> 01:23:35,805
If you own Bitcoin and you have it self-custodied,

1416
01:23:36,145 --> 01:23:36,985
it's yours.

1417
01:23:37,385 --> 01:23:38,325
Nobody can take it from you.

1418
01:23:38,785 --> 01:23:41,845
Those 12 magical words that, you know,

1419
01:23:41,845 --> 01:23:46,185
have some criticism for it like you you actually own those those are yours more than kind of

1420
01:23:46,185 --> 01:23:53,145
anything else so like that's your lifeboat again as i said earlier just like set a little bit aside

1421
01:23:53,145 --> 01:23:59,505
sit onto that shit for the next 10 years don't fucking lose the key it's gonna be your way out

1422
01:23:59,505 --> 01:24:04,545
of this dystopian hellhole that's probably gonna get produced uh in addition to the fact that like

1423
01:24:04,545 --> 01:24:10,805
more people know about bitcoin than ever before a lot of people don't and like again this is sort

1424
01:24:10,805 --> 01:24:15,125
the recursive thing is even if people come in as banker coin guys or a number go up people

1425
01:24:15,125 --> 01:24:20,245
eventually they get curious enough about it to be like how does this thing actually work under the

1426
01:24:20,245 --> 01:24:26,125
hood why is it important and they start to really orange pill themselves in a meaningful way so like

1427
01:24:26,125 --> 01:24:30,745
everything's good for bitcoin i ultimately think that the direction that we're going and also like

1428
01:24:30,745 --> 01:24:37,785
the fact that we're like hovering at what 113 000 and that like it feels like a bear market that

1429
01:24:37,785 --> 01:24:40,085
everybody's kind of like, Bitcoin's dead.

1430
01:24:40,385 --> 01:24:41,125
It sucks, dude.

1431
01:24:41,805 --> 01:24:43,045
It was phenomenal.

1432
01:24:44,045 --> 01:24:46,245
Remember where we're actually at in the timeline

1433
01:24:46,245 --> 01:24:47,005
and

1434
01:24:47,005 --> 01:24:50,245
we're going to have another bull rally at some point

1435
01:24:50,245 --> 01:24:52,165
in time and it's going to kick the shit out of gold

1436
01:24:52,165 --> 01:24:53,405
and silver and everything else.

1437
01:24:54,165 --> 01:24:54,765
And it's going to be fun.

1438
01:24:55,405 --> 01:24:58,165
You should consider buying more Bitcoin.

1439
01:24:59,445 --> 01:24:59,765
I think

1440
01:24:59,765 --> 01:25:01,945
all of the...

1441
01:25:01,945 --> 01:25:03,545
This is the big lesson since

1442
01:25:03,545 --> 01:25:05,125
I've been in Bitcoin

1443
01:25:05,125 --> 01:25:07,225
is that

1444
01:25:07,785 --> 01:25:13,245
All of the craziest thoughts and beliefs you have about what is going to happen in Bitcoin,

1445
01:25:14,025 --> 01:25:15,165
those are all real.

1446
01:25:15,545 --> 01:25:17,225
They're all going to come true.

1447
01:25:18,005 --> 01:25:24,025
And you're going to find yourself parked next to a mega yacht in Miami with Eric Kaysen

1448
01:25:24,025 --> 01:25:27,165
drunk off your ass being like, why are we here?

1449
01:25:28,085 --> 01:25:29,085
What's going on?

1450
01:25:29,365 --> 01:25:33,665
You're going to be standing next to Marty Bent at some fucking mansion on Star Island being like,

1451
01:25:34,245 --> 01:25:36,285
this mansion is kind of ugly, actually.

1452
01:25:37,785 --> 01:25:41,285
These are both real interactions I've had with both of these gentlemen.

1453
01:25:41,505 --> 01:25:44,605
And I'm just a guy who fucking bought magic internet money

1454
01:25:44,605 --> 01:25:48,045
and stumbled my way in here after a random drunken night at the casino.

1455
01:25:48,445 --> 01:25:51,505
And then I posted my real thoughts about Bitcoin on the internet.

1456
01:25:51,645 --> 01:25:54,225
And people were like, I kind of like the cut of this guy's jib.

1457
01:25:54,245 --> 01:25:57,085
And then I started getting invited to millionaire mansion parties and shit.

1458
01:25:57,525 --> 01:25:58,165
It's weird.

1459
01:25:58,365 --> 01:25:59,285
It's really weird.

1460
01:25:59,285 --> 01:26:02,645
And like, so, you know, when I first sat down and like...

1461
01:26:02,645 --> 01:26:04,365
It's weird.

1462
01:26:05,145 --> 01:26:05,805
It's weird.

1463
01:26:05,805 --> 01:26:08,425
And when I first sat down and discovered Bitcoin,

1464
01:26:08,765 --> 01:26:13,045
I, you know, when I found out that there was 100 million Satoshis in each Bitcoin,

1465
01:26:13,185 --> 01:26:17,785
I was like, clearly, that's going to be worth $100 million one day.

1466
01:26:17,925 --> 01:26:20,765
And like, I didn't really, you know, I wasn't smart enough to be like,

1467
01:26:20,845 --> 01:26:23,405
the $100 million will be severely debased.

1468
01:26:23,425 --> 01:26:25,225
But I was like, it will be worth $100 million.

1469
01:26:25,425 --> 01:26:28,105
So like, I do think that Bitcoin goes to infinity.

1470
01:26:28,385 --> 01:26:29,225
That continues.

1471
01:26:29,365 --> 01:26:34,305
It becomes more of a, you know, political movement across the Western world.

1472
01:26:34,305 --> 01:26:40,265
and people use it to sort of, you know, revivify society, really.

1473
01:26:40,345 --> 01:26:45,785
Because what Bitcoin is, is it's a restorative vision of the future,

1474
01:26:46,065 --> 01:26:48,125
which is what the fascists want.

1475
01:26:48,225 --> 01:26:49,505
That's what the far right wants.

1476
01:26:49,745 --> 01:26:53,305
And it's a, you know, progressive vision of the future

1477
01:26:53,305 --> 01:26:57,045
in that it enables all these new tools and technologies.

1478
01:26:57,605 --> 01:26:59,865
And that's kind of what the communist side wants.

1479
01:27:00,005 --> 01:27:03,625
And so it kind of is the perfect marriage of this economic populism

1480
01:27:03,625 --> 01:27:07,505
that both sides are, you know, the younger generations are like dying for.

1481
01:27:07,805 --> 01:27:10,245
I also think that like when the boomers die,

1482
01:27:10,345 --> 01:27:12,385
there's the largest wealth transfer that's ever happened.

1483
01:27:13,025 --> 01:27:16,045
And I already can see it with my friends is that, you know,

1484
01:27:16,085 --> 01:27:20,165
those who didn't get in on Bitcoin are going to inherit wealth from the boomers

1485
01:27:20,165 --> 01:27:21,185
who are going to leave it to them.

1486
01:27:21,225 --> 01:27:25,085
And then they're going to be a lot less price sensitive than we are.

1487
01:27:25,165 --> 01:27:27,465
And they're going to be like, yeah, $250,000 for a Bitcoin.

1488
01:27:27,645 --> 01:27:28,765
That's very cheap.

1489
01:27:28,845 --> 01:27:31,185
Like I'm going to buy three of those because I, you know,

1490
01:27:31,185 --> 01:27:33,345
just got money from my parents when they passed away, whatever.

1491
01:27:33,625 --> 01:27:40,485
And so I think that there's going to be a lot of when this wealth transfer happens, a lot of boomer money is going to end up in Bitcoin.

1492
01:27:40,785 --> 01:27:42,365
And, you know, it's going to continue going up.

1493
01:27:42,365 --> 01:27:55,805
And I think that it's important for us to, you know, maintain our principles through this whole thing and to be like, it's not number go up or censorship resistance, because if we don't have both, we've failed.

1494
01:27:55,805 --> 01:28:02,045
And so we need to make it through to the other side with, you know, Bitcoin's core properties,

1495
01:28:02,045 --> 01:28:03,845
its inherent properties intact.

1496
01:28:03,845 --> 01:28:06,125
And that's a long bet.

1497
01:28:06,125 --> 01:28:07,925
And it's going to take your whole life.

1498
01:28:07,925 --> 01:28:12,325
And, you know, you don't martyr yourself for something by dying in a blaze of glory.

1499
01:28:12,325 --> 01:28:18,065
You martyr yourself for something by giving your life for it every day, like you would

1500
01:28:18,065 --> 01:28:21,365
do with your family or things that you're passionate or that you care about, your community.

1501
01:28:21,365 --> 01:28:23,085
You show up for those things every day.

1502
01:28:23,085 --> 01:28:24,085
You show up for Bitcoin every day.

1503
01:28:24,085 --> 01:28:25,725
you show up for the principles every day,

1504
01:28:25,725 --> 01:28:27,605
it's going to take the rest of our lives.

1505
01:28:27,605 --> 01:28:29,205
Just buckle in.

1506
01:28:29,205 --> 01:28:32,145
If you're here now, 17 years in,

1507
01:28:32,145 --> 01:28:34,805
actually, this is a thousand-year system,

1508
01:28:34,805 --> 01:28:37,085
so you're still at the very beginning of the story.

1509
01:28:37,085 --> 01:28:38,865
The very, very beginning.

1510
01:28:38,865 --> 01:28:41,665
I don't think I can top anything forward looking at

1511
01:28:41,665 --> 01:28:42,625
these two gentlemen just said,

1512
01:28:42,625 --> 01:28:45,145
but something I've been just looking at,

1513
01:28:45,145 --> 01:28:48,345
marveling at this week is the hash rate.

1514
01:28:48,345 --> 01:28:52,625
We're sitting at 1.15 Zeta hash around there,

1515
01:28:52,625 --> 01:28:55,105
based on what estimates you look at.

1516
01:28:55,665 --> 01:29:00,945
But it took 11 years for Bitcoin to go from launch to 100x hash.

1517
01:29:01,205 --> 01:29:02,685
I looked this up earlier today,

1518
01:29:02,845 --> 01:29:06,985
and it hit 100x hash for the first time in January of 2020.

1519
01:29:07,665 --> 01:29:12,305
Then you think it took four years, five years.

1520
01:29:12,765 --> 01:29:19,045
We hit one Zeta hash last month, September 15th, reliably.

1521
01:29:19,045 --> 01:29:48,605
And so it took like four and a half, almost five years to go from 100 to a Zeta hash. And in a little over a month, we've added another exahash to the network. And so when you think about that, the amount of raw power dedicated to the Bitcoin network and how fast it's coming on the network right now, it's mind boggling to me to think of a process that took 11 years just took less than six weeks.

1522
01:29:49,045 --> 01:29:50,185
That's insane.

1523
01:29:50,465 --> 01:29:51,125
It's insane.

1524
01:29:51,385 --> 01:29:51,625
Yeah.

1525
01:29:51,865 --> 01:29:54,345
And that is a signal that something's happening here.

1526
01:29:54,425 --> 01:29:55,945
Like this network is bootstrapping.

1527
01:29:56,365 --> 01:29:57,265
It's working.

1528
01:29:57,585 --> 01:30:03,225
And no matter what you hear with debates over op return at the price is hovering at 113.

1529
01:30:03,585 --> 01:30:05,365
And you don't think that's high enough.

1530
01:30:05,625 --> 01:30:07,925
Like there's something happening behind the scenes.

1531
01:30:07,925 --> 01:30:16,585
The melding of the physical and digital world via Bitcoin hash rate is happening at a pace that I don't think many people recognize right now.

1532
01:30:16,865 --> 01:30:17,685
Like that exa hash.

1533
01:30:17,765 --> 01:30:18,285
I looked at it.

1534
01:30:18,285 --> 01:30:24,585
I was like, wait, 1.1 zeta hash means we, or excuse me, we added 100 exahash in the last six weeks.

1535
01:30:25,145 --> 01:30:31,225
It's insane to think that it took, going from zero to 100 took 11 years.

1536
01:30:31,685 --> 01:30:36,565
Then from 100 to 1,100 exahash took four years.

1537
01:30:36,565 --> 01:30:39,545
And then we just added 100 exahash in six weeks.

1538
01:30:39,705 --> 01:30:44,065
Like that's insane parabolic growth that we're entering on the hash rate side of things.

1539
01:30:44,065 --> 01:30:47,905
and I think that's a foundational base

1540
01:30:47,905 --> 01:30:51,105
that is very underappreciated right now

1541
01:30:51,105 --> 01:30:52,105
and the growth of that base

1542
01:30:52,105 --> 01:30:53,865
is very underappreciated right now.

1543
01:30:55,445 --> 01:30:57,345
And that's, I mean, a lot of people have been sharing,

1544
01:30:57,945 --> 01:31:01,325
resharing the Buckminster Fuller and Henry Ford

1545
01:31:01,325 --> 01:31:02,885
sort of visions of the future.

1546
01:31:03,005 --> 01:31:07,745
We need a currency based at some degree in energy

1547
01:31:07,745 --> 01:31:09,485
and that's what Bitcoin represents.

1548
01:31:09,745 --> 01:31:10,605
They can't dilute it.

1549
01:31:11,145 --> 01:31:13,145
They can't take it from you if you secure it properly.

1550
01:31:14,065 --> 01:31:18,205
And slowly but surely, more and more people are going to realize this.

1551
01:31:18,305 --> 01:31:19,085
They're going to adopt it.

1552
01:31:19,265 --> 01:31:21,365
And the number is going to go up.

1553
01:31:21,565 --> 01:31:24,765
And hopefully, people don't get distracted by number go up.

1554
01:31:24,845 --> 01:31:28,425
And we still have the cypherpunks out there, which I'm very confident we do,

1555
01:31:28,545 --> 01:31:33,525
working on the tools that make you able to access Bitcoin sovereignly and privately.

1556
01:31:33,525 --> 01:31:38,185
I'm actually very bullish on sovereign and private usage of Bitcoin over the next decade,

1557
01:31:38,185 --> 01:31:44,465
despite what the governments would like to do to us by cucking us and not allowing us

1558
01:31:44,465 --> 01:31:45,465
to self-custody.

1559
01:31:45,465 --> 01:31:48,805
If it gets to that point where they write a law that says you can't self-custody without

1560
01:31:48,805 --> 01:31:53,345
KYCing, I've said this before, Matt doesn't like me saying this on our HR, but we're not

1561
01:31:53,345 --> 01:31:57,825
on our HR, like civil disobedience will need to come back and we'll just need to flaunt

1562
01:31:57,825 --> 01:32:00,125
our sovereign users of Bitcoin in the States.

1563
01:32:00,170 --> 01:32:01,670
and say, no, you're not taking this from us.

1564
01:32:02,470 --> 01:32:03,310
Yeah, let's fucking go.

1565
01:32:03,390 --> 01:32:04,990
I mean, that's like the 6102,

1566
01:32:05,090 --> 01:32:06,710
but you just don't have to listen.

1567
01:32:07,250 --> 01:32:09,290
Many people, that's what many Bitcoiners are,

1568
01:32:09,370 --> 01:32:11,410
many people during 6102 didn't listen either.

1569
01:32:11,550 --> 01:32:13,550
They were just like, no, I'm not giving you my fucking gold.

1570
01:32:14,270 --> 01:32:18,490
You know, we have this digital slash physical merger

1571
01:32:18,490 --> 01:32:19,850
via Bitcoin mining.

1572
01:32:20,750 --> 01:32:22,410
To me, when I think about that,

1573
01:32:22,410 --> 01:32:26,410
I think about that creating a bridge or a rift in space-time.

1574
01:32:26,410 --> 01:32:31,010
and it is a portal that, you know, leads to a new dimension.

1575
01:32:31,690 --> 01:32:35,350
And so when we talk about this, you know, the old world is dying,

1576
01:32:35,470 --> 01:32:38,190
like, let's just admit it and be like, yeah, it's dying.

1577
01:32:38,670 --> 01:32:41,610
It may in fact already be dead and we're just staring at its carcass.

1578
01:32:42,050 --> 01:32:45,130
And I think that the most logical and sane thing to do

1579
01:32:45,130 --> 01:32:48,290
is if you find a hole in space-time is to walk through it

1580
01:32:48,290 --> 01:32:51,270
and see, you know, where it takes you, right?

1581
01:32:51,450 --> 01:32:54,110
Doesn't sound like it's the sane thing to do, but it is.

1582
01:32:54,110 --> 01:33:00,570
i love that uh so things might get shit but it's gonna get better um this has been really cool

1583
01:33:00,570 --> 01:33:04,950
thank you guys i appreciate the time and uh i'm gonna get this out on friday white paper day

1584
01:33:04,950 --> 01:33:08,050
let's go thank you danny thanks

1585
01:33:24,110 --> 01:33:54,090
Thank you.