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Bitcoin fixes this, right? There's a way to solve this problem. I'm going to protect myself,

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and then I'm going to spread the word and try and get as many other people to protect themselves,

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and we're going to break this crooked system that they've got. The fiat currency, the dollar,

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is the Titanic, and it's sinking. And I bought seats on the lifeboat, and they were cheaper when

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I bought them. Do you want a seat on the lifeboat, or do you want to stay on the Titanic? I think

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this cycle takes us to kind of 200, 250 in Bitcoin. I'm quite certain that Bitcoin will be a million

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dollars. What I'm not certain of is how much will a gallon of gasoline cost when Bitcoin's a million

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dollars. Something really breaks and you know what they're going to do. They're going to bring out

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the monetary monetary fire hoses. And man, when that happens, just look out. And this is how

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currencies fail. Once everyone realizes that it's part of the policy and they can never stop,

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the currency is doomed. Sadly, you know, this is how hyperinflations occur. It could go to zero.

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larry it is good to see you my friend um i think this show great to see you as well this show is

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uh is coming at a perfect time while i was prepping for it i felt like a lot of the stuff

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that i've been being told for the last however many years started falling into place a little

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bit so i'm hoping that's true we'll find out but um i think we've got to start on the fed

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they obviously had their meeting earlier this week and decided to cut 25 basis points what do you

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think of their reaction to this? Do you think 25 was enough? Well, to me, it's all kind of

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kabuki theater because the right interest rate is the one the market should determine.

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And we're so far from that. I mean, it almost doesn't matter. I mean, I think Powell played

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it straight up the middle. He said a couple of interesting things. I mean, he said he thought

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the risk to inflation had increased and inflation has not hit his target. He admitted that.

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But he also said he thought the unemployment mandate, the risk there had increased as well.

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And I think maybe driven by the revisions in the prior employment reports, you know, he wanted to lean towards the sides of being more careful.

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And I think he viewed the policy as being somewhat restrictive and he wanted to be somewhat less restrictive.

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But recognizing that, you know, both risks are there.

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Several times he said, well, if inflation really becomes a risk, we've got the tools, we'll solve it.

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So, you know, he's still trying to bluff that they do have the tools they don't.

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I mean, what he kind of said in code is we're trapped, but he obviously couldn't say that.

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I thought one of the more interesting developments of the meeting was that the newest appointed Fed governor, Stephen Moran, a young gentleman who runs a Council of Economic Advisors for Trump, voted against it.

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he dissented. The prior two dissenters fell back in line, which, of course, I'm sure fits with,

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you know, trying to keep their boss happy. And, you know, Moran's dissent makes sense,

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right? Because Trump has called for cutting 300 basis points, and Moran wanted them to cut 50.

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You know, there's some other interesting things that we were discussing before the show that have

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gone on with respect to Moran. There's a recent, it was a Marty Bent tweet, a summary of an AI

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of Moran's comments. I haven't had time to go back and look at the original comments,

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but in summary, what Moran said was something along the lines of, you know, perhaps the Treasury

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and the Fed will have to work together to coordinate to keep long-term interest rates

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in a certain level. And anyone who knows anything about history knows that that's yield curve

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control. That's saying we're not going to let rates rise as a result of lack of faith in our

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debt. And that's fine. You can do that. But the way that one does that is one prints the money

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to buy the bonds. And so the money supply grows more rapidly. And, you know, in so doing, I went

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back, I was recently reading some things on the old yield curve control example. Most people don't

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realize this, but we, well, we had yield curve control, obviously, to some degree when we had QE,

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but there's another example of it. Post-World War II, you know, we had a lot of debt because

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we fought the war in one and we had to, we had to take on that debt. It was existential. And,

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you know, in order to control inflation, they had rationing and everything else. And,

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And coming out of that period in 46, they were in yield curve control starting in 42.

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They put the short rate at three-eighths, and they put the longer rates at 2.5%, and they just stood ready to buy whatever bonds were sold.

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And so they did that all the way into the early 50s, and there were periods.

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I think there was one month in 1947 when inflation was year-over-year 18%.

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There was a year in early 1950 when, or month in 1950 when inflation year over year was 21%.

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I mean, those are face ripping, you know, rates of inflation.

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And the reason is that they were suppressing the bond yield to get the debt control, to

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be controllable.

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And the only way they could do that was to grow M2.

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And so if we go back to that, there's just no doubt in my mind that we are going to have

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a lot of inflation.

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And so, you know, a lot of people say, well, how, when is the dollar going to fail?

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I don't know. I mean, it depends on a lot of things like policy choices. But what I do know

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is that we are in an inflationary cycle and it's not over yet. I believe that very strongly.

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So I do definitely want to talk about the inflation side of this. But I also read

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Marty's piece for TFTC. I'll make sure there's a link in the show notes because it's a really

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good piece. But maybe it's worth getting into yield curve control because what I don't necessarily...

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So basically, that is them just putting a backstop on the sale of bonds and they'll buy them at a

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fixed price. So Japan did this. Correct. It's QE. It's QE as well. I mean, they go into the market.

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And by the way, they're kind of doing a little bit of it today. I mean, one of the things they've

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done is they've shifted a lot of the issuance into the shorter rates, which are lower than the

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longer rates. We have a normal year curve, not inverted. And so it's cheaper to sell short-term

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debt. And then Basant has used some of that money that he got selling the short-term debt, and he's

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bought the long-term debt. And again, to keep those long-term rates anchored. And so it's a

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little bit, Bernanke did this back in the day, it's called Operation Twist, where you sell short

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and you buy long and you're holding the rates down. And yes, I mean, what all this ties into,

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Danny, fundamentally is that the bondholder is the screwy in this whole cycle, right? I mean,

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in an inflationary cycle where you got too much debt, we know because after Doge failed,

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and it really did fail.

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I mean, don't get me wrong.

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They probably cut some bad programs,

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but, you know,

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Elon's saying $2 trillion and $1 trillion.

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I mean, that's all a joke, right?

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None of that happened.

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If you look at the expenditures,

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they continue to grow

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and our deficit this year

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will be as large as last year,

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perhaps a tad larger.

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Depends on this month of September.

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But, you know, when Doge failed

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and then they had, you know,

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Liberation Day created the panic

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in the stock and bond markets,

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you know, Bacent kind of pivoted

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and said, well, you know,

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we're not focusing on that stuff as much anymore.

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We're really going to,

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what we're going to focus is on growing the economy.

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And I heard that and I fell out of my chair.

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That's code for,

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we're going to inflate the shit out of this thing

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and run it hot, right?

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And so, and then you've soon thereafter,

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you heard President Trump say,

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you know, and he went on his attack against Powell,

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which was well-deserved.

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But, you know, I mean,

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you've never seen a president behave so aggressively,

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you know, regarding a Fed chair.

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although there was some of that back in the 60s with, you know, beating up on Burns and stuff.

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But and, you know, Trump said rates should be down 300 percent or three.

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Yeah. 300 basis points. So three percent. So, you know, the Fed funds rate should be one percent.

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Well, you want to get inflation going again. You want to get a revancing cycle.

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You want to get a debt growth cycle going again. You know, go back to almost ZERP.

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And boy, it's sure it's surely going to happen.

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and so the thing is you know as you and i both know that in may powell's term is up and powell's

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going to appoint somebody who's or i mean trump is going to appoint somebody's going to be very

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very dovish and so you know you can kind of i think what's going on is the market sees that

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the market's like all right i know it's coming you know they're going to print like crazy

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you know and and markets look ahead right markets aren't pricing for today's conditions they're

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pricing where are we going to be in six months a year year and a half and so you know how far out

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as may what is it eight months or something i mean it's not that far away so the markets can see it

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and in the first market to see it as we'll talk about is is the gold market right because

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gold has just literally been on fire you know it's it's i mean i was listening to luke roman

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the other night and he said yeah gold goes up on every day that ends and why it's been just

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relentless for the last year like it's i just thought that was a great way of putting it right

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totally um on the yield curve control so let me just make sure i've got this right so obviously

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the Fed sets the short-term rate. The problem is they can't control the long-term, but this is a

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way of getting that in check as well. So it kind of just removes any free market dynamic. Is that

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right? Pretty much. I mean, and to be fair, I mean, if you really get technical about it, the Fed is

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not printing money when it buys those bonds. It's creating reserves for the bank. It's buying

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the bonds back and, you know, and then putting a reserve asset on the bank's balance sheet. But

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be absolutely certain it's just one step removed from printing money because now that the bank has

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bigger reserves on its balance sheet and it's a fractional reserve lender, it can lend more and

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it will lend more. So, you know, unless they're isolated as they were, you know, after the great

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financial crisis, I mean, the Fed changed the rules as they always do when they want to screw

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people and decided they started playing interest on excess reserves. And that kept the inflation

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in check somewhat at a consumer level. Although at an asset level, everything went kind of,

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you know, that's how we got into this everything bubble was all that free money.

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So even if it's not technically money printing, the actual outcome of it is exactly the same.

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Exactly. It's just one step removed. Yeah. I mean, and to be fair, I mean,

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even the Fed has said, you know, we've got a tool called the printing press. I mean,

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it really is money printing, so we might as well just call it that.

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forward slash wbd when we spoke it was probably six months ago in bedford and we were talking

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about the big print and you were saying like the big print is coming but you weren't sure exactly

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what form it was going to come in like i think we we said that we we didn't think it would be

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like qe again it would be something different is this it is this the big print

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Well, it's kind of the beginning of it. But yes, you're right. I mean, they know they don't want to have to go to QE. They don't want to have to go to ZERP, although Trump probably does. They can do the big print via the banks. I mean, just by changing, you know, there's all these technical plumbing, monetary plumbing things that, you know, even sometimes my head spins when I try and understand them.

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I mean, I think Luke and Lynn get them a little better than I do, but they can change the rules.

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And effectively, the banks are what keep the whole thing going because the banks can create money.

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The banks can buy the bonds by creating money.

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And as long as they can get a positive spread, and my guess is the Fed will make it such that they do, because we already know.

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I mean, the Fed's running huge deficits, and that's based on the spread, right?

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And so, you know, they're basically giving the banks an enormous subsidy.

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In fact, as some of these people attack the Fed, they've been attacking them for that.

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And it's not only they give an enormous subsidy, but like 40% of that subsidy goes to foreign banks.

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So it's kind of like, hang on a second, why is our monetary authority subsidizing foreign banks?

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Well, the answer is to keep the whole financial system from blowing apart.

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But yeah, so yes, they're very good at trying to rebrand and change and hide the peas and shells.

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I mean, you know, I mean, the great we've talked about this, but I'll just mention it again because I think it's so important.

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You know, Dodd-Frank outlawed bank bailouts, period.

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You know, Dodd-Frank was a reaction to 2008, said, you know, everyone's rip shit pissed that we bailed out all those banks.

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It was wrong. It was unfair. Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the rest of us, lose our houses and stuff.

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So Dodd-Frank was like, you're not going to bail out the banks anymore.

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The banks screw up. You know, they're going to have to take the hit.

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The shareholders, the depositors, et cetera.

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Well, along comes Silicon Valley Bank, which is so ironic, it got itself in trouble because of ZERP.

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And they bought all these safe government bonds, which in theory had no default risk, but they bought them so cheap and with so much duration that when Powell started raising rates, you know, Silicon Valley Bank went tits up.

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And, you know, the rule should have said, OK, depositor of Silicon Valley Bank, you take a 20 percent haircut.

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That's what should have happened.

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But guess what?

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The depositors of Silicon Valley Bank were rich venture capitalists and Bill Ackman and

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a lot of people who had a lot of political sway.

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And so they got in there and they said, oh, no, no, you can't have that happen.

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If you have that happen, the whole banking system is going to go down.

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The FDIC won't be able to cover all the deposits.

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And so they undusted off another rule, which was kind of the systematic, you know, failure

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exemption.

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And they bailed them out, you know, just broke the Dodd-Frank law.

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So, you know, this is a pattern that we just know will be repeated over and over again.

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It's frustrating.

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It's unfair.

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You know, it just, I mean, people have read my book.

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They say, God, the first half of the thing was so depressing.

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I'm like, yeah, I know.

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That's the point.

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That's the world we live in.

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The point, you know, I would never have written the first half if I didn't know the second half, which is, you know, Bitcoin fixes this, right?

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There's a way to solve this problem.

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And while you might get depressed with the first half, I'm hoping that depression leads you to resolve.

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And your resolve is, OK, I'm going to, you know, we're going to break this thing and I'm going to I'm going to save, you know, I'm going to protect myself.

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And then I'm going to spread the word and try and get as many other people to protect themselves.

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And we're going to break this crooked system that they've got.

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So so that's, you know, that's I guess that's a little long winded answer to your question.

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No, that was great. So it's really like a semantic thing.

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It's not it's not if the big print will happen, it's how.

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Well, I think that's right. That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. It's happening. It's kind of happening, but it could get bigger, right?

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I mean, I think this is going to get exponentially bigger forever until it blows up. But on the yield curve control thing, the question I would have is, like, how much does this lead to inflation? Because Japan have had yield curve control for, I don't know, a decade or something like that. And they've not had inflation. But I know they're a very different market. So what would it mean in the US?

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Well, they're starting to have inflation. They are starting to have inflation because they import their energy and they were having trouble paying for their oil, you know, in dollars because the dollar was weakened. Yeah, and Japan's a slightly different case. I mean, their budget is in much more balance. They run a trade surplus, not a deficit. And they're a nation of savers. So it's not exactly apples to apples with us on the inflation front.

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You know, and they also tend to be kind of a trusting people, I think, in general, the government and their systems.

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I mean, inflation, one of the things I think people forget about inflation is that it's not just all these numbers on a page.

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Inflation is also a psychological phenomena.

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If you believe that inflation exists, it kind of comes, you can bring it into being.

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Let me give you an example.

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You know, when the COVID inflation came out and, you know, the price of everything went up 30, 40 percent, you know, the longshoremen and the airline pilots and a lot of unions realized, holy shit, we're getting screwed.

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Our money's not buying as much.

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We know it exists.

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We believe it exists.

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We're going to demand higher wages.

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And they did.

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And they got them.

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I mean, the longshoremen got like 10 percent a year for six years.

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That's a lot bigger than 2 percent.

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And, you know, the airline pilots, a similar deal.

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And the point is that inflation flows through a system and everybody notices it's hitting them and then they demand theirs, right?

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And so this is why, you know, people say, well, in a technical Austrian sense, you know, tariffs are a tax and therefore they're not inflationary.

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They're actually deflationary because they increase demand by taxing and using it on something like the government.

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And there's some truth in that.

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But the flip of that is, well, yes, that's true, except that if the producer passes it on to the user, the user sees a higher price.

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That user thinks the higher price is inflation, which to him it is.

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It's a higher price for the same thing.

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And then he turns around to his employer and says, hey, my money's not going as far.

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You've got to pay me more.

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So, you know, it's a self-reinforcing cycle.

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And I know about it a lot because I was young when it happened.

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But the 70s was the last time this really happened in a big way.

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And there were three big waves of inflation.

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And we're in that cycle. And to break that cycle, you've got to convince people that inflation is totally under control. And Volcker did it in 80 by taking rates to 20 percent, almost bankrupted my father. But that's a side effect. But it's great. I mean, some farmer drove to the Eccles building in D.C. in 1980 with a shotgun intent on killing Volcker because basically the interest rates were killing him.

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And you know so I mean you got this I mean how can you have an authority that charged with setting the rate of interest that can have the interest rate somewhere between 20 and zero I mean it both are extremes and it just tells you how out of control the whole goddamn thing is

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I mean, they'd be better off just to set it at 4% and leave it, you know, and then I mean it.

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Right.

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I mean, it's just it's like we're swinging from one extreme to the other.

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So I don't know.

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That's just kind of a tangent.

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But I do think that idea of inflation being a psychological phenomenon is really interesting because like I really had no real idea of what inflation was until I found Bitcoin.

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And I think like if you ask my friendship group, people my age, until COVID happened, they wouldn't have been very well aware of what inflation was and how it impacted them.

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But my parents, who would probably be a similar generation to you, like absolutely know what it is because they lived through the 70s.

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And so everyone waking up to this is, I mean, it's kind of scary in one sense, but incredibly bullish for things like Bitcoin and things like gold.

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Oh, yeah. It's insanely bullish for what we've got.

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And we're still, you know, I still think if this is a nine inning baseball game, we're in somewhere between the second and the third inning.

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I mean, it's early days.

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And I spent a lot of my time talking to investors, wealthy people or my clients and others.

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And, you know, so many of them are, you know, they're backward looking.

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They're like, well, they'll get it under control.

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And gosh, you know, gold's gone up a lot.

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Bitcoin's gone up a lot.

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Don't we sell it now?

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And I'm kind of like, well, no, you really don't because it's going to get worse, not better.

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You know, now there'll come a time when they've gone up a lot and monetary reform is being talked about and they're going to eventually address all these issues and solve this problem.

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And at that point in time, you know, it'll be time to sell this and move back into productive businesses, which, you know, perhaps will be selling at five times earnings instead of 50 times earnings.

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But we're a long way away from that right now.

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I mean, we're only just getting started.

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You know, people should think about this as we are early in the inflation game, not late.

295
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I think that's an important distinction to make.

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Um, you know, I've used the price price, um, fixating on a price is a, is a very human emotion.

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If something like gold was a thousand dollars a bunch of years ago or $2,000 a year and a half ago,

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it's 36. Now it's very easy to think that 36 is expensive. 3,600 is expensive,

299
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but in fact, you know, to balance the entire debt burden, all the money that's been created

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with the gold that we hold, if you compare it to the seventies model, you know, it'd have to be

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$90,000 an ounce. So if that's really the case and we're at 3,600, you know, it's kind of cheap,

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right? And, you know, the model I've been using, I've been touting recently, it's just, I think

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it's a good metaphor is, you know, fiat currency is the, I mean, because the thing, here's what's

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going on. I'm encountering a lot of people says, yeah, I can't buy that because you bought it

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much cheaper. And I'm happy for you that you made all this money, but now it's high in price. I can't

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buy it. I mean, it's not a good investment to buy it this high. And I'm like, no, you don't

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understand. You got the model wrong. The model is that the fiat currency, the dollar is the Titanic

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and it's sinking. And I bought seats on the lifeboat and they were cheaper when I bought them,

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but they're, and they're more expensive to you. And I'm sorry for that, but you didn't buy them

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when I did. But you know, the question to you and you've got to address is, do you want to

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seat on the lifeboat or do you want to stay on the Titanic? Because you know, the, the, the Bitcoin

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seed is now 117 and the you know the gold seed is now you know 3 600 your choice right and and how

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good a lifeboat you want to get on you want to get on bitcoin because because if gold has to be

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i think bitcoin's a better it's a better lifeboat than gold but they're both don't get me wrong

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they're both going to work danny i mean it's you know they're both going to work bitcoin much in a

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much better way but you know i can completely buy that but if gold should be 90 000 an ounce like i

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want to know what the bitcoin price is that i can't do the math but millions of dollars no i mean it's

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It's $10 million.

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I mean, it's, yeah.

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And, you know, to be honest with you, all these numbers kind of get hard to deal with and become a little irrelevant when you really are in a currency failure.

321
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Because, you know, I'm quite certain that Bitcoin will be a million dollars.

322
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What I'm not certain of is how much will a gallon of gasoline cost when Bitcoin's a million dollars.

323
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Do you know what I mean?

324
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And because, you know, it will be there in part because we've had massive inflation.

325
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And, you know, that will hit everything.

326
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So, you know, it's the purchasing power you really care about.

327
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And we measure nominally with dollars at the base.

328
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I mean, as I said in the book, and as you and I've talked about, I mean, I'm pretty sure my kids and grandkids will quote prices and satoshis.

329
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And the dollar will be kind of this historical remnant of our old broken monetary system.

330
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So a car will be, I don't know, 20 satoshis and a sandwich will be, you know, one 100th of satoshi.

331
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I mean, I don't know, you know, who knows what it'll be.

332
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But the point is, we'll have a difference.

333
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The numeraire will be a different thing.

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That's the world I want to live in.

335
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We'll get there.

336
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I'm sure we will.

337
00:24:32,818 --> 00:24:35,278
You said that you think inflation is coming back.

338
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Like one of the things that I've struggled with, with this Fed decision, they've obviously

339
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cut rates, but inflation is not at their target.

340
00:24:41,498 --> 00:24:42,898
It's just under 3%, I think.

341
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No, not even close.

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And those are the quick numbers, by the way, right?

343
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Of course, yeah.

344
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I mean, the numbers aren't right.

345
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But I want to know, like, who are they doing this for?

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Are they doing this because they think it's the right decision for the economy?

347
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Or are they doing it because they're worried about their interest payments?

348
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Because they have that dual mandate at the moment.

349
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Maybe it becomes a triple mandate.

350
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But it's stable prices and jobs.

351
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And it seems like jobs are really struggling and they've not got stable prices under control.

352
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So what on earth do they do?

353
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Well, that's the thing.

354
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They're trapped, as we all know.

355
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They're painted into a corner.

356
00:25:17,158 --> 00:25:19,498
I mean, I thought, you know, as I listened to Powell.

357
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It's funny, I was coming back from a trade show in Denver focused on gold mining companies.

358
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So I was with another guy and we were in the car and they had Sirius XM radio.

359
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It was perfect.

360
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I'm driving for an hour and I got to listen to Powell.

361
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I don't know.

362
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I don't like the guy, but I actually kind of felt sorry for him in the sense that, you know, he said, well, you know, we're not at our inflation target.

363
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And frankly, their inflation risk is getting worse.

364
00:25:41,118 --> 00:25:44,217
But in turn, you know, we've been trying to be restrictive.

365
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And, you know, we're seeing the labor data is really starting to get soft, as we all know, there were huge downward revisions.

366
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And so we feel like, you know, he almost said, like, we're kind of pulling this out of our ass, but we kind of feel like we ought to lean towards the labor side.

367
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If I were, you know, if you were just kind of summarizing what he said, but he said he did say, look, we're in a particularly challenging position.

368
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But a few people pushed him on the inflation.

369
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And, of course, he did the old threat.

370
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No, we think we can get it under control.

371
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And if we need to, we've got the tools and we'll do whatever we have to do.

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which implies they would raise rates. But of course, I don't think they will. I mean,

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I got to believe what Powell is doing is he's literally just counting the days

374
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until he can retire and say, I did my job, you know, system's still in one piece,

375
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you know, whatever it might be. I mean, and all he's got to do is make it into May of next year.

376
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And I'm pretty sure he's counting the days because he knows he's in a very, very tough spot. And who

377
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knows, he may make it out. I mean, if there's any karma in the world, I kind of think there is.

378
00:26:45,678 --> 00:26:51,378
I actually don't think he's going to make it. I think something's going to break between now and

379
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May and he's going to be forced to pivot and do Zerp and QE and all that other stuff. But we'll

380
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see. I could be wrong. They're pretty good at can kicking and they could just kick it down the

381
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road until May. And then at that point, Muran will be chairman or somebody else will be chairman

382
00:27:06,398 --> 00:27:10,938
and they'll drop rates aggressively and it'll keep the economy kind of going.

383
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But, you know, inflation will get into another wave of inflation.

384
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And this one won't stop at nine.

385
00:27:15,778 --> 00:27:17,957
It'll go to 15, you know.

386
00:27:19,057 --> 00:27:21,477
So that's kind of what I could see happening.

387
00:27:21,797 --> 00:27:25,358
And whoever comes in is likely just to be a kind of Trump stooge

388
00:27:25,358 --> 00:27:26,778
and it blurs the lines between.

389
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Gotta be.

390
00:27:27,618 --> 00:27:27,898
Yeah.

391
00:27:28,098 --> 00:27:28,737
Gotta be.

392
00:27:28,878 --> 00:27:30,898
I mean, he's not going to blow this.

393
00:27:31,018 --> 00:27:34,237
I mean, he knows that, you know, keeping the economy going

394
00:27:34,237 --> 00:27:43,717
And what he's going to hope is that that initial surge from the new guy coming in and printing money won't show up in the CPI data for a little bit of time.

395
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So you'll have an economy that's running strong.

396
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Everybody will have jobs.

397
00:27:47,518 --> 00:27:49,818
Inflation hasn't really gotten going yet.

398
00:27:50,197 --> 00:27:52,778
And that'll lead to, you know, President Vance.

399
00:27:52,938 --> 00:27:54,297
That's kind of what he's hoping.

400
00:27:54,297 --> 00:28:01,237
um you know the the flip side of that possibility is that the inflation shows up good and hard and

401
00:28:01,237 --> 00:28:07,318
fast and the economy slows down anyway and then the dems come in and say well you know we need

402
00:28:07,318 --> 00:28:15,338
ubi and you know wealth taxes and you know blah blah blah blah and and they win and you know look

403
00:28:15,338 --> 00:28:20,418
out because we're you know it's all going in the other direction very quickly which would be terrible

404
00:28:20,418 --> 00:28:23,697
But, you know, I assume we're in a fourth turning.

405
00:28:23,798 --> 00:28:33,117
The typical fourth turning model is that you see this real political, you know, people are dissatisfied with politics.

406
00:28:33,117 --> 00:28:35,717
And so one side wins and then they kick those bums out.

407
00:28:35,778 --> 00:28:38,438
And then the other side wins and they kick those bums out.

408
00:28:38,498 --> 00:28:40,138
And I mean, just back and forth, back and forth.

409
00:28:40,278 --> 00:28:41,377
I mean, that's definitely happening.

410
00:28:41,518 --> 00:28:46,278
And that's one of the areas where I wonder if the UK is sort of ahead down that path.

411
00:28:47,158 --> 00:28:48,158
I think you are.

412
00:28:48,237 --> 00:28:50,057
I think that's exactly what you guys are doing.

413
00:28:50,057 --> 00:28:59,838
And obviously, I mean, we don't need to get into the politics, but now there's this new party that, while I agree with a lot of the stuff they say, are certainly very populist and who knows what happens.

414
00:28:59,918 --> 00:29:02,557
I think the fourth turning meme is, well, it's not a meme.

415
00:29:02,778 --> 00:29:03,938
It's life at the moment.

416
00:29:04,578 --> 00:29:07,197
Yeah, no, that theory, it's playing out in real time.

417
00:29:07,278 --> 00:29:08,138
It's pretty amazing.

418
00:29:08,258 --> 00:29:12,078
I mean, all the horrific stuff that happened in our country last week with that shooting.

419
00:29:12,197 --> 00:29:15,117
I mean, I got to tell you, it just broke my heart.

420
00:29:15,197 --> 00:29:16,258
It's just so sad.

421
00:29:16,377 --> 00:29:16,957
It's funny.

422
00:29:16,957 --> 00:29:19,678
I was talking to a couple of people offline about that.

423
00:29:19,918 --> 00:29:21,898
And I quite like Charlie Kirk.

424
00:29:21,938 --> 00:29:23,457
I didn't listen to a lot of the stuff he did.

425
00:29:23,518 --> 00:29:26,557
But I saw him, you know, like if I was scrolling, I'd see his clips every now and again.

426
00:29:26,658 --> 00:29:30,538
And I thought he always seemed like a really genuine, like decent person, I thought.

427
00:29:31,258 --> 00:29:31,697
Totally agree.

428
00:29:31,838 --> 00:29:37,518
I mean, I have to admit, I'm kind of culturally deaf and I don't listen to a lot of that stuff.

429
00:29:37,678 --> 00:29:42,078
So I didn't know much about him actually before it occurred.

430
00:29:42,318 --> 00:29:45,798
But gosh, it's just heartbreaking, just tragic, really.

431
00:29:45,798 --> 00:29:49,638
And really kind of a turning point maybe for our country.

432
00:29:49,877 --> 00:29:51,518
I mean, I just was like, wow.

433
00:29:52,258 --> 00:29:54,538
You know, I knew things were bad in America.

434
00:29:54,638 --> 00:29:55,697
I knew they were getting worse.

435
00:29:56,418 --> 00:30:00,278
And I guess I shouldn't have been surprised because we've had school shootings.

436
00:30:00,678 --> 00:30:04,237
And, you know, I mean, there have been a lot of bad things going on.

437
00:30:04,298 --> 00:30:13,598
I mean, you know, and I really do believe that this broken money is what's led to, you know, this dysfunctional society.

438
00:30:13,798 --> 00:30:15,018
I mean, my book talks about that.

439
00:30:15,018 --> 00:30:18,678
I mean, the deaths of despair and the hollowing out of the middle class.

440
00:30:18,678 --> 00:30:19,737
I mean, it's just been so much.

441
00:30:19,918 --> 00:30:22,598
And look, some of it, you know, couldn't have been helped.

442
00:30:22,697 --> 00:30:25,617
I mean, some of it's just the technology and the changes that have occurred in our world.

443
00:30:25,717 --> 00:30:30,057
And the flip side of those technologies are that, you know, we're incredibly productive.

444
00:30:30,197 --> 00:30:33,918
You and I can have conversations from halfway around the world and broadcast it to thousands of people.

445
00:30:34,057 --> 00:30:39,678
I mean, you know, there are a lot of positives coming out of the technology, but there were a lot of disruptions and negatives as well.

446
00:30:39,678 --> 00:30:46,717
and it's you know I mean the good news is I think it's all leading us to a better place and I remain

447
00:30:46,717 --> 00:30:52,858
enormously optimistic about where we will get to and the world my kids will live in but boy I mean

448
00:30:52,858 --> 00:30:58,617
it's you know right now the last time I remember this country being this way and I was I was 10

449
00:30:58,617 --> 00:31:04,918
years old was you know back in back in the 60s you know when the Vietnam War protests were just

450
00:31:04,918 --> 00:31:10,678
raging and there was all kinds of campus dissent and you know the democratic convention in chicago

451
00:31:10,678 --> 00:31:16,258
was you know it was a mess and and then then of course people started getting killed i mean jfk

452
00:31:16,258 --> 00:31:22,078
earlier in 63 but you know mlk and malcolm x and bobby and all of it it was just horrible

453
00:31:22,078 --> 00:31:27,018
absolutely horrible and this feels the same actually it feels kind of worse the the funny

454
00:31:27,018 --> 00:31:32,158
thing about it well not funny at all but like the the interesting part about it is that how much it

455
00:31:32,158 --> 00:31:36,617
bothered me like because like i say i always quite liked him but it bothered me in a in a

456
00:31:36,617 --> 00:31:41,018
way deeper way than than i would have expected something like that too and i think it is the

457
00:31:41,018 --> 00:31:46,498
fact that it just feels like a really pivotal moment and it's like it's right in front i mean

458
00:31:46,498 --> 00:31:52,117
obviously you literally saw it you know you saw the oh it's horror the video was just horrific

459
00:31:52,117 --> 00:31:56,998
yeah i mean i good god but it's really what that represents like the fact that discourse is broken

460
00:31:56,998 --> 00:32:01,358
down to the point that you have to shoot someone you disagree with is just disgusting it's just

461
00:32:01,358 --> 00:32:07,278
absolutely barbarian and disgusting. And after a thousand years of human progress to think that

462
00:32:07,278 --> 00:32:13,518
we've come to this, it's like, what? You know, I mean, yeah, it's just, it's absolutely horrific.

463
00:32:13,798 --> 00:32:20,298
So, but maybe it'll be a sober, I mean, you know, the bright side of it is perhaps a sober reminder

464
00:32:20,298 --> 00:32:24,898
for everyone to tone down the rhetoric and recognize that, you know, it's one planet,

465
00:32:24,998 --> 00:32:29,578
we're one people, most of us are alike. We just want to live our lives and not kill other folks.

466
00:32:29,578 --> 00:32:33,918
and to the degree we have differences, we've got to talk about them and work it out, not,

467
00:32:34,278 --> 00:32:39,018
you know, kill each other. And, uh, you know, there's obviously thousands of years of history

468
00:32:39,018 --> 00:32:43,217
of human beings killing each other, but I'd like to think we're moving away from that. And I think

469
00:32:43,217 --> 00:32:47,398
that, you know, one, one way to be, to, to increase the odds that we're moving away from

470
00:32:47,398 --> 00:32:51,538
that is to keep the system fair, you know, because I'd be willing to bet that, you know,

471
00:32:51,538 --> 00:32:56,538
a lot of the killing that takes place is driven by people who feel like they have nothing to lose

472
00:32:56,538 --> 00:33:02,438
and the system is incredibly unfair to them. They feel it. And so they act out in a way that,

473
00:33:02,518 --> 00:33:06,178
you know, is horrific, right? Yeah. It's like peak nihilism,

474
00:33:06,178 --> 00:33:13,858
peak disenfranchised youth. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, there's no justification for it,

475
00:33:13,877 --> 00:33:17,578
but you can kind of analyze it and see how it could occur, right?

476
00:33:17,957 --> 00:33:22,018
Yeah. I mean, I was going to say onto, I mean, it's definitely less depressing news,

477
00:33:22,078 --> 00:33:26,197
but it's still depressing news on the fact that the one thing that I wanted to kind of get back

478
00:33:26,197 --> 00:33:32,938
to on that is, how much do you think the Fed actually matters now? Because I think the month

479
00:33:32,938 --> 00:33:38,697
of August, the deficit was something like $350 billion. Can the Fed even do anything?

480
00:33:39,758 --> 00:33:45,057
Well, yeah, they can print money. I mean, they do matter because they've got their hands on that

481
00:33:45,057 --> 00:33:51,138
printing press. And they're going to matter in spades if Stephanie Kelton is the Fed,

482
00:33:51,138 --> 00:33:56,898
is the president or treasury secretary. I mean, for anyone who doesn't know who Stephanie is,

483
00:33:56,918 --> 00:34:04,858
she's the champion of MMT. MMT. Yeah. And money printing. And so, yeah, they do matter. I mean,

484
00:34:04,877 --> 00:34:11,357
look, the markets matter more, but the markets follow the monetary authority. And

485
00:34:11,357 --> 00:34:19,598
if the monetary authority is going to print a ton of money, guess what? The money is going to get

486
00:34:19,598 --> 00:34:29,498
massively debased. And yeah, they matter. They matter a lot, really. And they matter. Now,

487
00:34:29,738 --> 00:34:34,518
you know, it's possible the market is going to, I mean, the events are going to make them not

488
00:34:34,518 --> 00:34:38,977
matter. Because if the currency fails, then they're not going to matter. Nobody's going to

489
00:34:38,977 --> 00:34:45,278
fall for that again. We're going to be transacting in Bitcoin and silver coins, you know, but for now,

490
00:34:45,278 --> 00:34:50,718
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513
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so I was speaking to Joe Carlseri. I know you guys don't get along, but he's got some valuable

514
00:36:46,018 --> 00:36:52,337
stuff. And so I was speaking to him in Vegas and he was talking about like the idea that

515
00:36:52,337 --> 00:36:57,018
when it comes to this kind of debt spiral, people don't talk enough about the productivity gains

516
00:36:57,018 --> 00:37:01,198
that we're going to see in the coming years from things like AI and robotics. Do you think there is

517
00:37:01,198 --> 00:37:04,477
a path out of this through massive increase in productivity?

518
00:37:05,618 --> 00:37:11,238
Not alone. I mean, I share his belief that productivity is going to increase a lot,

519
00:37:11,317 --> 00:37:16,998
and I share his belief in AI and what it can do for the economy. But I think like most things,

520
00:37:17,698 --> 00:37:22,418
you know, the AI thing has gotten a little bit ahead of itself, people a little bit too excited.

521
00:37:22,418 --> 00:37:27,998
The studies I've read have said, you know, a lot of people who've done AI projects of,

522
00:37:27,998 --> 00:37:33,118
you know, corporations like 90% have not seen direct benefits from it. But I mean, just at

523
00:37:33,118 --> 00:37:37,698
my own personal level, I mean, writing the book, doing some research, getting information quickly,

524
00:37:37,698 --> 00:37:43,337
it was massively beneficial. I have some friends, actually a relative who's a, you know, legal

525
00:37:43,337 --> 00:37:48,698
profession, paralegal going on to be a lawyer. You know, she says, this is going to wipe out the

526
00:37:48,698 --> 00:37:53,238
paralegal profession, because you can just do so much more so quickly. And she may be right.

527
00:37:53,238 --> 00:38:03,638
I mean, you know, yes, there will be productivity increases, but, you know, at the end of the day and robotics and yes, I mean, some of the more, you know, repetitive, terrible jobs.

528
00:38:03,777 --> 00:38:07,258
I mean, you look at and read about what China is doing with manufacturing cars.

529
00:38:07,377 --> 00:38:09,297
You look at paint shops and how they're using robotics.

530
00:38:09,438 --> 00:38:20,357
I mean, yes, robotics will definitely make things more efficient, but, you know, it's pretty hard to automate absolutely everything, you know, and it's not going to happen overnight.

531
00:38:20,357 --> 00:38:22,598
I mean, it's like the self-driving cars.

532
00:38:22,598 --> 00:38:41,977
I mean, they've come a long, long, long way. We're almost there, but we're not quite, you know, we're not all the way there yet. And so, you know, to me, to my way of seeing it, these and those productivity gains will benefit everybody. But, you know, the flip of that, Danny, too, is keep in mind that there are a lot of workers in the world.

533
00:38:41,977 --> 00:38:45,477
OK, let's say their jobs are replaced by AI.

534
00:38:45,837 --> 00:38:48,797
You know, OK, well, those workers have mortgages.

535
00:38:49,138 --> 00:38:50,657
Those workers have debts.

536
00:38:51,477 --> 00:38:52,977
You know, suddenly they're unemployed.

537
00:38:53,418 --> 00:38:57,118
You know, how are they going to transition into something else?

538
00:38:57,198 --> 00:38:58,618
Maybe the programming of AI.

539
00:38:59,477 --> 00:39:06,418
I mean, it's, you know, every deflationary trend, you know, as Jeff Booth points out,

540
00:39:06,418 --> 00:39:10,977
every deflationary trend is a problem for a credit-based system

541
00:39:10,977 --> 00:39:23,535
that absolutely relies upon inflation and growth in credit to keep it going And so to the degree that we have deflation in jobs wages productivity driven by productivity et cetera

542
00:39:24,255 --> 00:39:27,835
that all creates more problems for a system

543
00:39:27,835 --> 00:39:30,335
that has to have credit growth, right?

544
00:39:30,435 --> 00:39:33,175
And therefore, the only way to get credit growth

545
00:39:33,175 --> 00:39:37,855
is to misprice interest and grow the money supply.

546
00:39:37,855 --> 00:39:38,935
And that's inflation.

547
00:39:39,095 --> 00:39:40,515
I mean, it's Jeff's point.

548
00:39:40,595 --> 00:39:41,255
It's a brilliant one.

549
00:39:41,335 --> 00:39:42,435
And I mean, when he came out with that book,

550
00:39:42,435 --> 00:39:52,835
It was just such an insight that just we're trying to map a deflationary economy becoming more so, you know, and productivity increases are rapidly accelerating.

551
00:39:53,155 --> 00:40:00,935
We're trying to map that against a old monetary system that absolutely positively has to have credit growth or else the existing system collapses.

552
00:40:01,215 --> 00:40:03,295
So it's like, how do you do that?

553
00:40:03,515 --> 00:40:05,495
You know, one of them has got to give.

554
00:40:05,495 --> 00:40:17,755
I mean, they're completely incompatible. But while they try and keep the current monetary system alive, I assume what will happen there is just UBI. I can't really see any other way out for them if we do enter that world.

555
00:40:17,835 --> 00:40:29,415
I think that's probably right. Yeah. No, I think that's probably right. I mean, I think, you know, and look, COVID was an interesting test case for all of that, right? I mean, cash, you know, money just showed up in our bank accounts, right?

556
00:40:29,415 --> 00:40:34,955
you're a taxpayer they've got your you know they've got your social boom here's your you know

557
00:40:34,955 --> 00:40:39,855
here's your check so they you know they they tested it they know it works they can do it

558
00:40:39,855 --> 00:40:45,595
um and you know boy watch you know when inflation is raging and things are tough in three years

559
00:40:45,595 --> 00:40:51,455
and vance is running against a aoc or whoever i mean heaven forbid newsom whatever but

560
00:40:51,455 --> 00:40:57,355
you know the then um these kinds of things are going to be promised and there's some segment of

561
00:40:57,355 --> 00:41:01,435
the voters who will go for that in a big way. I just looked up because I always think it's an

562
00:41:01,435 --> 00:41:04,915
interesting stat. If you'd have put that $1,200 stimulus check into Bitcoin, it would have been

563
00:41:04,915 --> 00:41:09,995
worth $21,000 now. Isn't that stunning? Wow. That's pretty cool. Incredible. That's really cool.

564
00:41:10,535 --> 00:41:15,015
So we've kind of framed this interview like the book. We've done the depressing stuff. I do have

565
00:41:15,015 --> 00:41:20,335
one more depressing question and then we can get onto kind of the solutions. But if we do actually

566
00:41:20,335 --> 00:41:25,895
go into a world where the Fed are trying to do yield curve control, does that really blur the

567
00:41:25,895 --> 00:41:30,755
between sort of monetary policy and fiscal policy? Because obviously, Lynn's been on this sort of

568
00:41:30,755 --> 00:41:34,855
fiscal dominance narrative for a long time now. Where does that leave us?

569
00:41:35,235 --> 00:41:40,475
Yeah, well, you nailed it. I mean, the fact is nothing stops the train. And one of the most

570
00:41:40,475 --> 00:41:45,615
disingenuous things that I think Powell has done is to say, well, I don't do fiscal policy. Well,

571
00:41:45,735 --> 00:41:50,735
you know, come on, dude. I mean, you're the guy who enables them to do what they're doing.

572
00:41:51,295 --> 00:41:54,755
I mean, if he was honorable, he would say, look, either you guys clean up your act and balance the

573
00:41:54,755 --> 00:41:59,475
budget or I quit. Because, you know, you can't honestly do his job of keeping the money sound

574
00:41:59,475 --> 00:42:06,175
when they're spending more than they're bringing in. You just can't do it. So to me, they're

575
00:42:06,175 --> 00:42:10,455
completely and totally linked. And interestingly, that's kind of where Trump and Besant say they

576
00:42:10,455 --> 00:42:13,715
want to take it. That's what Moran said in his recent comments, right, that the Fed and the

577
00:42:13,715 --> 00:42:18,495
Treasury have to coordinate, you know, to keep the whole thing together. I mean, it's interesting,

578
00:42:18,675 --> 00:42:24,475
you know, all countries learn from other countries. And China has been quite successful as a result of

579
00:42:24,475 --> 00:42:28,615
having kind of quote-unquote industrial policy, not being a democracy, just saying this is how

580
00:42:28,615 --> 00:42:31,655
we're going to do it, and we're going to move quickly and break things and make things better.

581
00:42:32,455 --> 00:42:36,835
And, you know, I mean, I wouldn't want to be in the Chinese political system, but you can't really

582
00:42:36,835 --> 00:42:41,455
argue with their economic success, right? And, you know, we've done it democratically, which is

583
00:42:41,455 --> 00:42:46,335
messier and slower and this, that, and the other, but in turn, you know, we're starting to see us

584
00:42:46,335 --> 00:42:50,955
acting more like them, like, okay, we need some industrial policy. Boom. Let's invest in MP

585
00:42:50,955 --> 00:42:55,495
materials because they have rare earths and we need that shit. Boom, let's invest in intel because

586
00:42:55,495 --> 00:43:00,235
chips are important to us and we just want to take a big piece of it. Moran coming out saying,

587
00:43:00,335 --> 00:43:04,415
boom, let's, you know, maybe the treasury and the Fed need to be joined at the hip because we need

588
00:43:04,415 --> 00:43:09,055
to have a, you know, a monetary industrial policy kind of thing. I mean, that's what they did in

589
00:43:09,055 --> 00:43:14,015
World War II, you know, and they had to do it, right? I mean, it was existential, you know,

590
00:43:14,055 --> 00:43:18,295
these fascist countries that attacked us or were attacking Europe and, you know, we wanted to

591
00:43:18,295 --> 00:43:22,475
prevent that and stop that. So, okay, fine. You know, let's, whatever it takes, we're going to

592
00:43:22,475 --> 00:43:26,175
win this thing. And it was a different country back then. Everyone got behind it. You know,

593
00:43:26,195 --> 00:43:30,235
you had the hero generation and, and everyone agreed that this is wrong. We got to fight.

594
00:43:30,335 --> 00:43:33,775
And, you know, I mean, I remember my grandparents telling me you couldn't get anything, you know,

595
00:43:33,795 --> 00:43:37,275
you couldn't get tires, you couldn't get gasoline, you couldn't get meat, you know,

596
00:43:37,275 --> 00:43:41,815
you were eating rice and crackers and, you know, but they were like, you know, we all said it was

597
00:43:41,815 --> 00:43:46,755
okay because, you know, we're still alive. And once we win the war, you know, things will be good

598
00:43:46,755 --> 00:43:52,515
again. And they were right. And so, you know, arguably, arguably, you know, maybe America's

599
00:43:52,515 --> 00:43:55,615
going to have to go through kind of one of those, this whole generation is going to have to go

600
00:43:55,615 --> 00:44:00,375
through one of those big changes where, gosh, you know what, the currency failed. Oh my,

601
00:44:00,735 --> 00:44:05,515
that's a really bad thing. But I've studied a lot of currency failures, talk about it in the book,

602
00:44:05,595 --> 00:44:10,115
write about it. If we can avoid getting into a war, if we can stop the nuclear exchange,

603
00:44:10,135 --> 00:44:15,935
if we can stop killing each other, you know, all the assets are still there. What just happens is

604
00:44:15,935 --> 00:44:20,035
just like you've kind of taken a monopoly board and you've tipped it upside down. So everyone who

605
00:44:20,035 --> 00:44:24,475
owned the houses don't own them anymore. And all the math is different. People who thought they had

606
00:44:24,475 --> 00:44:29,115
a lot of money don't because it was fiat and it was worthless. And people who thought they owned

607
00:44:29,115 --> 00:44:32,375
magic internet money were suddenly some of the richest people in the world. I mean,

608
00:44:32,855 --> 00:44:38,975
that's kind of where I think we're going, which is strange, but I see it. That's what I see.

609
00:44:38,975 --> 00:44:44,495
It is so strange. And it's such like, it is the weirdest thing ever, but an incredibly

610
00:44:44,495 --> 00:44:49,695
positive thing i think changing the people who have the capital is what this world needs but it's

611
00:44:49,695 --> 00:44:54,615
oh my goodness yeah but it's funny you saying like in the 50s like the country is a different country

612
00:44:54,615 --> 00:44:59,195
because i don't even think you need to go back that far like in my childhood i feel like it was

613
00:44:59,195 --> 00:45:04,275
a different place like pre 9 11 the patriarch mass surveillance like the global financial crisis

614
00:45:04,275 --> 00:45:08,795
like the world i grew up in was different to the world right now like definitely oh absolutely

615
00:45:08,795 --> 00:45:15,435
Absolutely. And I just, it's just been a kind of continual, long, slow slide. And I, you know,

616
00:45:15,455 --> 00:45:20,895
I was born in 57, you know, I had relatives who were in the war. I mean, you know, it's,

617
00:45:21,455 --> 00:45:25,495
yeah, it's just been a long, slow slide. This is a great country. And the West was really

618
00:45:25,495 --> 00:45:30,895
at its peak in 46. And sadly, we kind of pissed it away. I mean, we kind of had that winner's

619
00:45:30,895 --> 00:45:35,295
curse of, well, we got it all figured out and everyone will just listen to us as they should

620
00:45:35,295 --> 00:45:39,535
forever. And, you know, then some evil people got in control of the United States and they murdered

621
00:45:39,535 --> 00:45:44,675
Kennedy and, you know, the military industrial complex rose up, which, you know, Eisenhower

622
00:45:44,675 --> 00:45:48,815
warned us against and, you know, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, so you end up with, you know,

623
00:45:48,875 --> 00:45:53,555
Dick Cheney starting a war over mass weapon, you know, mass extinction weapons, which did not exist.

624
00:45:53,915 --> 00:45:57,595
But hey, he made $150 million on his Halliburton stock, worked out for him.

625
00:45:58,035 --> 00:46:02,855
Do you know what I mean? You know, so he could get drunk and shoot some guy with his, you know,

626
00:46:02,855 --> 00:46:07,855
with a shotgun. I mean, it's just, it's horrific. I mean, I was at this conference last week. I was

627
00:46:07,855 --> 00:46:11,435
walking through this hall of, it was the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs. I was walking through this

628
00:46:11,435 --> 00:46:15,315
hall and they had all these photos of all the famous people who'd been there. And it was like

629
00:46:15,315 --> 00:46:20,615
Kissinger and Cheney and Bush. And I'm just like, these guys are war criminals. You know,

630
00:46:20,955 --> 00:46:24,375
you got them up on the wall of this hall. I'm like, these guys are war criminals. They killed

631
00:46:24,375 --> 00:46:31,035
millions of people. You know, what are you doing? I mean, yeah, it's just, I don't know. The West,

632
00:46:31,035 --> 00:46:36,615
we lost our way. We really lost our way. And which is not to say that the East and the Chinese have

633
00:46:36,615 --> 00:46:40,415
it all figured out or the Russians have it all figured out. I mean, you know, the one thing that's

634
00:46:40,415 --> 00:46:44,855
good about all these changes, it'd actually be nice to kind of get back to a multipolar world

635
00:46:44,855 --> 00:46:50,595
where all of humanity could embrace the best of each culture, right? I mean, there's good parts

636
00:46:50,595 --> 00:46:55,615
of all cultures and they're bad parts of all cultures. And, you know, if we can kind of, I mean,

637
00:46:55,995 --> 00:46:59,915
the thing that's so great about Bitcoin, as you know, and I know, is it separates money and state,

638
00:46:59,915 --> 00:47:05,495
But more importantly, it's just it's the first game I've ever seen that's completely fair.

639
00:47:06,015 --> 00:47:08,335
It's absolutely completely fair.

640
00:47:08,435 --> 00:47:13,635
I mean, you think almost anything else and it's kind of a might makes right situation.

641
00:47:14,135 --> 00:47:15,955
And yet Bitcoin is not that way.

642
00:47:16,075 --> 00:47:19,095
It's just a mathematical algorithm that's completely fair.

643
00:47:19,835 --> 00:47:24,975
I think that I think the implications of that, I think we've I don't think we've even begun to scratch the surface.

644
00:47:25,095 --> 00:47:28,215
I mean, I was around when the Internet came around and got started.

645
00:47:28,215 --> 00:47:35,615
And, you know, did I have any idea that you and I would be talking like this, you know, 25 years later and we'd be broadcasting it to thousands of people?

646
00:47:35,695 --> 00:47:36,575
No fucking way.

647
00:47:36,775 --> 00:47:37,315
You know what I mean?

648
00:47:37,735 --> 00:47:42,315
I mean, I remember when eBay popped up and I was like, wow, look at that.

649
00:47:42,715 --> 00:47:44,555
You know, a worldwide swap meet.

650
00:47:44,735 --> 00:47:47,975
I mean, everyone knows what a swap meet is, you know, or what the want ads are.

651
00:47:48,075 --> 00:47:49,735
You know, I want to buy your used bicycle.

652
00:47:50,155 --> 00:47:54,195
But, gosh, you could put it up on eBay and sell it to anyone anywhere in the country.

653
00:47:54,355 --> 00:47:55,255
Wow, what a concept.

654
00:47:55,255 --> 00:48:00,655
And, you know, the same kinds of breakthroughs are going to occur with Bitcoin.

655
00:48:01,475 --> 00:48:04,775
You know, it's just, it's like, and you and I were talking before we started.

656
00:48:04,895 --> 00:48:08,575
I mean, what Alex Gladstein is doing, the change he's making in the third world.

657
00:48:08,635 --> 00:48:10,315
There's a part of that in the book about that, right?

658
00:48:10,775 --> 00:48:13,175
The way that Bitcoin has helped in the remittances business.

659
00:48:13,335 --> 00:48:16,875
I mean, here are these poor people who, you know, they send relatives overseas to work.

660
00:48:17,355 --> 00:48:19,035
The relative sends money back to them.

661
00:48:19,295 --> 00:48:23,335
And Western Union and the money changers, they scrape off, you know, 10 to 20%.

662
00:48:23,335 --> 00:48:27,815
well, what if that were actually in the people's pockets who did the work instead of, you know,

663
00:48:27,935 --> 00:48:32,975
in the middlemen? I mean, it's just, there's so many benefits to having a fairer system,

664
00:48:32,975 --> 00:48:34,855
and this is a fairer system. So-

665
00:48:34,855 --> 00:48:37,015
A hundred percent. We need to get rid of these-

666
00:48:37,015 --> 00:48:41,675
I know I'm speaking to the choir, but I just, I get really excited when I think about all the

667
00:48:41,675 --> 00:48:45,515
positive shit that's coming, but it's, you know, meanwhile, we, you know, meanwhile,

668
00:48:45,515 --> 00:48:47,375
I have to sit in the car and listen to Jerome Powell.

669
00:48:48,815 --> 00:48:52,515
Hopefully not for too much longer. So we've done all the kind of, uh,

670
00:48:52,515 --> 00:48:58,675
depressing old system stuff let's get into some of the yeah hopeful bits um obviously you've been

671
00:48:58,675 --> 00:49:05,015
a gold bug for a long time um and gold has been absolutely ripping it's crazy right it's ridiculous

672
00:49:05,015 --> 00:49:08,615
i don't know like the actual figure of the amount of money gone into gold in the last 12 months but

673
00:49:08,615 --> 00:49:14,635
it's outrageous it's unbelievable yeah is this just natural sort of market dynamics coming from

674
00:49:14,635 --> 00:49:21,395
people reacting to this kind of um monetary system or is this the repricing of gold is this is this

675
00:49:21,395 --> 00:49:26,775
driven by something else? Well, it can be both, Danny. I mean, I think it's both. And it comes

676
00:49:26,775 --> 00:49:33,575
in a lot of layers, right? Look, human awareness, you know, kind of moves in waves. And, you know,

677
00:49:33,755 --> 00:49:39,775
what starts off as kind of a crazy ass idea eventually becomes common sense accepted reality.

678
00:49:39,975 --> 00:49:43,675
I mean, you know, Galileo says, no, no, no, you know, we're all circling the sun and everything

679
00:49:43,675 --> 00:49:47,915
she's a frigging nut and the Catholic church wants to kill him, you know, and, you know,

680
00:49:47,915 --> 00:49:52,195
hundreds of years later. It's just, it's obvious that's the way it works. And, and I think the same

681
00:49:52,195 --> 00:49:57,775
is going on with respect to fiat money, you know? And so, you know, what you can see is that the

682
00:49:57,775 --> 00:50:03,975
central banks have figured it out. Large hedge funds have figured it out. BlackRock has figured

683
00:50:03,975 --> 00:50:08,495
it out. Ray Dalio, the largest hedge fund manager, very successful man, he's figured it out.

684
00:50:08,995 --> 00:50:14,515
And so, you know, what, what Lynn describes as nothing stops this train and what we've seen in

685
00:50:14,515 --> 00:50:17,755
terms of the behavior of the government and the trend in behavior of the government is

686
00:50:17,755 --> 00:50:21,435
that they just cannot and will not stop spending.

687
00:50:21,775 --> 00:50:24,055
You know, the system is constructed in a manner

688
00:50:24,055 --> 00:50:27,495
which forces them to spend, to keep it going,

689
00:50:27,575 --> 00:50:30,355
and to buy votes at an ever-increasing rate.

690
00:50:31,055 --> 00:50:33,415
And so it's like an alcoholic has to keep drinking more

691
00:50:33,415 --> 00:50:35,355
or a drug addict, you have to take more and more and more

692
00:50:35,355 --> 00:50:36,895
to get the high, well, eventually you kill yourself.

693
00:50:37,295 --> 00:50:39,055
And that's what's happening with the system.

694
00:50:39,155 --> 00:50:40,875
It's eventually going to kill itself.

695
00:50:40,875 --> 00:50:43,935
And it's showing up, most notably,

696
00:50:43,935 --> 00:50:51,115
in the obligations, the trusted obligations of the system, long bonds, which used to be the base

697
00:50:51,115 --> 00:50:58,595
of the financial system, have gotten destroyed, particularly since 2020. And the things that are

698
00:50:58,595 --> 00:51:03,335
outside of the system that, you know, represent a form of money that the system can't mess with,

699
00:51:03,755 --> 00:51:10,395
Bitcoin and gold, have skyrocketed. I mean, since 2020, in bond terms, gold's up, you know, 250%,

700
00:51:10,395 --> 00:51:13,495
and Bitcoin's up, you know, 2,000%.

701
00:51:13,495 --> 00:51:15,015
I mean, it's insane.

702
00:51:15,875 --> 00:51:18,755
And so that's a signal that something is going on here.

703
00:51:18,935 --> 00:51:22,675
And, you know, whether it's the people buying, you know, gold bars at Costco

704
00:51:22,675 --> 00:51:25,315
or the people who are going to the coin stores and buying coins

705
00:51:25,315 --> 00:51:29,335
or, you know, the blue collar workers that I've worked with, you know,

706
00:51:29,455 --> 00:51:32,695
that I know who take all their savings and put it in silver coins.

707
00:51:33,235 --> 00:51:35,495
I mean, it's just kind of coming from everywhere.

708
00:51:35,755 --> 00:51:39,275
And, you know, this awareness is just, it's growing and growing and growing.

709
00:51:39,275 --> 00:51:46,155
And yet, you know, the average person isn't really tuned into it.

710
00:51:46,335 --> 00:51:49,415
And we're still, you know, as Saylor says, this is the gold rush.

711
00:51:49,515 --> 00:51:54,295
We're still, you know, I don't know where we are in the Malcolm Gladwell 10% tipping point.

712
00:51:54,415 --> 00:51:55,155
We all know the theory.

713
00:51:55,275 --> 00:51:58,135
You hit 10% and then it's going to rapidly accelerate until you hit 90.

714
00:51:58,755 --> 00:52:02,355
The same time it got from zero to 10 is the same time it goes from 10 to 90.

715
00:52:03,055 --> 00:52:04,515
Well, we're 16 years into Bitcoin.

716
00:52:04,615 --> 00:52:05,895
I don't think we're actually at 10 yet.

717
00:52:05,955 --> 00:52:06,975
I think we're maybe at five.

718
00:52:06,975 --> 00:52:13,355
but we're growing we're going there pretty quickly and uh you know to my way of seeing it

719
00:52:13,355 --> 00:52:19,855
you know it's going to accelerate here in the next five or ten years and so i you know i i think i

720
00:52:19,855 --> 00:52:24,315
think we're all going to be stunned i mean i i'm i know it's in the fund i manage the things i watch

721
00:52:24,315 --> 00:52:28,515
it's very easy to me think well gosh this has gone up a lot and usually when you're investing

722
00:52:28,515 --> 00:52:34,375
and you have something that goes up a lot i think maybe it's time to sell and um but then i i look

723
00:52:34,375 --> 00:52:39,035
at the bigger picture and the construction of what's going on and i realize that no this if if

724
00:52:39,035 --> 00:52:43,355
this is the fundamental shift that i think it is of growing awareness of everybody of the issue

725
00:52:43,355 --> 00:52:48,155
um you know then we don't sell until everybody's aware of the issue and it's no longer an issue

726
00:52:48,155 --> 00:52:55,715
and that's you know we're not there yet not even close so um you know i as you and i've talked

727
00:52:55,715 --> 00:53:00,215
about in the past i mean you know i think gold's going to 10 000 i think bitcoin's going to a

728
00:53:00,215 --> 00:53:05,115
million. I mean, and that's not that far out. I mean, within a five to six to seven year window.

729
00:53:06,035 --> 00:53:10,435
I mean, I don't pay very much attention to gold, but on the Bitcoin side, I completely agree. And

730
00:53:10,435 --> 00:53:16,355
it's not time to sell. It's time to buy more. But the thing that's crazy about throwing out

731
00:53:16,355 --> 00:53:20,935
numbers like Bitcoin going to a million is when I first got into Bitcoin, people talked about a

732
00:53:20,935 --> 00:53:24,395
million dollars and it always, even to Bitcoin, it's like, I think they knew it would happen

733
00:53:24,395 --> 00:53:28,135
eventually, but it still seemed like a crazy thing to say. But now it's like, it feels like

734
00:53:28,135 --> 00:53:32,275
it's right around the corner. I mean, I don't know if we'll get to 2030 before Bitcoin's a million

735
00:53:32,275 --> 00:53:38,815
dollars. I agree. It really does. I mean, you know, it's so it grows an order of magnitude. I

736
00:53:38,815 --> 00:53:44,495
mean, so it went from one to 10, 10 to 100, 100 to 1000, 1000, 10,000, 10,000 to 100,000. I mean,

737
00:53:44,495 --> 00:53:50,875
it's six or seven orders of magnitude and it's been around for 15 years. So now it was more

738
00:53:50,875 --> 00:53:57,635
rapid in the earlier years, but, and, and that's slowing down as, as sailors pointed out, the ARR

739
00:53:57,635 --> 00:54:02,855
has come down, but you know, it's going to do, it's going to do another order of magnitude.

740
00:54:02,955 --> 00:54:06,155
That's going to do another order of magnitude after that. You know, I mean, it's someday it's

741
00:54:06,155 --> 00:54:10,455
going to go to 10 million, but you know, that's, that's probably quite some ways out because it,

742
00:54:10,455 --> 00:54:17,615
like I say, it is slowing down, but yeah, it, it, I mean, I, I remember very clearly back in the

743
00:54:17,615 --> 00:54:22,495
depths of, you know, the bull market or the bear market in gold and things were down. And I don't

744
00:54:22,495 --> 00:54:27,635
know, this was 2016 or 17 or 18. And thinking to myself, boy, if this, you know, and I owned a

745
00:54:27,635 --> 00:54:31,875
bunch of Bitcoin, I think I said, boy, if this ever got to 10, 20, 30,000, I'd be feeling pretty

746
00:54:31,875 --> 00:54:37,555
good about life. You know, it was like at four at the time, you know, and, you know, it went up and

747
00:54:37,555 --> 00:54:40,995
I got to 20. I was like, you know, if this ever got to a hundred, I'd be feeling really good about

748
00:54:40,995 --> 00:54:46,695
life and, you know, and now it's at a hundred and, um, yeah, the, the, the goalposts kind of keep

749
00:54:46,695 --> 00:54:51,195
moving, but it's, it's a hard, I mean, I've said this before, it's a hard thing to get your head

750
00:54:51,195 --> 00:54:56,855
around. Um, and I say that, I said this in another podcast, I think it's an important point to make.

751
00:54:57,295 --> 00:55:04,355
We have never had a form of money that would not be diluted in some form or fashion. There's never

752
00:55:04,355 --> 00:55:10,555
been such a thing, even gold, 1.7% a year, every 45 years, the amount of gold on the planet doubles.

753
00:55:10,995 --> 00:55:18,955
21 million, it's fixed. I think that fact right there explains why it can go up forever.

754
00:55:19,735 --> 00:55:29,315
Because the supply is perfectly inelastic. And I think that fact right there is also why it's

755
00:55:29,315 --> 00:55:33,895
really hard for people to get their heads around it. I think that's exactly right. Because it's so

756
00:55:33,895 --> 00:55:37,735
simple, but then people end up getting stuck in the minutiae and don't allow themselves just to

757
00:55:37,735 --> 00:55:45,235
believe that fact. Yeah. If you believe that fact, you know, if the demand just keeps on growing and

758
00:55:45,235 --> 00:55:51,415
the supply is fixed. The only thing left to change is price. The only thing left to change is price.

759
00:55:51,655 --> 00:55:56,555
Yeah, that's it. And that's, and by the way, and it's not, okay, so you know, you could have said

760
00:55:56,555 --> 00:55:59,575
that a bunch of years ago, but you know, you would have, the volatility and everything,

761
00:55:59,715 --> 00:56:04,795
am I right about it? But man, now you got 16 years of this shit. Do you know what I mean?

762
00:56:04,795 --> 00:56:07,115
and no financial asset.

763
00:56:07,255 --> 00:56:09,035
I mean, there's so many amazing things going on.

764
00:56:09,295 --> 00:56:12,655
How can you be a financial advisor, you know, of any kind

765
00:56:12,655 --> 00:56:15,935
and not be pushing Bitcoin to your investors

766
00:56:15,935 --> 00:56:17,515
or not even mention or poo-poo it

767
00:56:17,515 --> 00:56:20,235
when it is the best performing financial asset

768
00:56:20,235 --> 00:56:21,215
in the past 16 years?

769
00:56:21,295 --> 00:56:24,595
Not by a little bit, Danny, by an enormous amount.

770
00:56:24,795 --> 00:56:26,235
You're just proving you're terrible at your job.

771
00:56:26,835 --> 00:56:27,715
Yeah, right?

772
00:56:27,755 --> 00:56:28,615
How can you do that?

773
00:56:28,715 --> 00:56:30,935
I mean, you know, I get it.

774
00:56:30,955 --> 00:56:32,815
If you didn't get it out earlier on, fine.

775
00:56:32,815 --> 00:56:39,515
if you're skeptical fine if you're still skeptical fine but at some point the evidence you know i

776
00:56:39,515 --> 00:56:44,335
mean you're lying eyes i mean the price you just can't ignore it right i was talking to eric yakes

777
00:56:44,335 --> 00:56:48,715
about this recently and and he was saying the same thing and and i do understand why you might

778
00:56:48,715 --> 00:56:54,535
have been skeptical in you know 2015 2016 2017 but like right now all the facts are on our side

779
00:56:54,535 --> 00:56:58,915
you can't disagree with what we're saying it's just it is factually accurate no you really can't

780
00:56:58,915 --> 00:57:04,675
I mean, there still is a little bit of this core protocol risk stuff.

781
00:57:04,775 --> 00:57:07,035
I mean, I haven't dug deep into that.

782
00:57:07,575 --> 00:57:10,055
I don't want to express a view on one side or the other.

783
00:57:10,955 --> 00:57:12,795
I mean, I have some gut feelings about it.

784
00:57:12,915 --> 00:57:15,215
But let me say it this way.

785
00:57:15,555 --> 00:57:24,335
I remember being at Sailor's Place a long time, like in Bitcoin Miami, a couple of things ago, maybe three things ago, 22 or I don't know what year it was.

786
00:57:24,335 --> 00:57:29,275
And a couple of us asked him, we said, you know, what do you worry about with respect to Bitcoin?

787
00:57:29,375 --> 00:57:36,095
He said, the only thing that could screw this up is if core, you know, goes rogue and just does a bunch of stupid shit.

788
00:57:36,115 --> 00:57:42,195
And he said, even that I'm not terribly worried about because of the consensus and the way that everybody votes on it.

789
00:57:42,195 --> 00:57:45,795
And I don't think, you know, it'll be allowed to go in that direction.

790
00:57:46,635 --> 00:57:47,995
But, you know, there's that.

791
00:57:48,115 --> 00:57:51,435
I mean, and then more recently people have said, well, the quantum risk is a real risk.

792
00:57:51,535 --> 00:57:54,055
And I'm not a computer scientist.

793
00:57:54,055 --> 00:57:55,135
I'm not an expert on that.

794
00:57:55,215 --> 00:57:56,835
All I know is what I read and listen to.

795
00:57:57,455 --> 00:58:01,895
Probably the one I trust the most is Lynn, who says, you know, she doesn't see this being a risk within a five-year window.

796
00:58:02,295 --> 00:58:10,995
And to the degree that it did become a risk for cracking the SHA-256, you know, eventually you'd do a hard fork with its quantum resistance.

797
00:58:10,995 --> 00:58:23,195
So, you know, you set those two things aside, it feels to me, it feels pretty certain to me that it's going to continue as it has, you know, tick-tock next block, you know.

798
00:58:23,455 --> 00:58:23,535
Yeah.

799
00:58:23,535 --> 00:58:27,375
Yeah, with the quantum stuff, there's stuff we can do to mitigate that if it ever becomes a real risk.

800
00:58:27,735 --> 00:58:32,555
And with the Notts Core stuff, my opinion on it is that ideologically, I get what the Notts people are saying,

801
00:58:32,775 --> 00:58:38,515
but I really don't think that this new version of Core is going to have any detrimental impact to Bitcoin.

802
00:58:38,655 --> 00:58:39,815
This isn't a risk to Bitcoin.

803
00:58:40,195 --> 00:58:42,855
I hope you're right. I hope you're right. I know people are on the other side of that.

804
00:58:43,195 --> 00:58:46,795
I've listened to it. You know what? I'm not technical enough to figure it out myself.

805
00:58:46,795 --> 00:59:02,413
So I don want to express an opinion on just some half view I just don know you know I mean I think the important part like this is a mental policy change It nothing to do with consensus We going to be absolutely fine I convinced of that

806
00:59:02,633 --> 00:59:07,233
I hope you're right. That's reassuring to me, actually, because a lot of my wealth is in

807
00:59:07,233 --> 00:59:12,733
Bitcoin. Again, my opinion, I'm not speaking for anyone else here, but it's not going to be a

808
00:59:12,733 --> 00:59:17,113
problem for Bitcoin. I'm pretty sure. I'm glad to hear you believe that. Yeah, I hope you're right.

809
00:59:17,252 --> 00:59:21,613
I do. So can we just quickly talk about the nation states that are buying gold?

810
00:59:21,613 --> 00:59:25,933
because gold on the balance sheets of the central banks across the world has gone up tremendously.

811
00:59:27,793 --> 00:59:32,873
Obviously, as Bitcoiners, we think that that will one day be Bitcoin. Do you think we have

812
00:59:32,873 --> 00:59:39,752
an interim step where this is gold then Bitcoin? That's a really great question. Possibly.

813
00:59:41,032 --> 00:59:47,512
I just don't know. I mean, I think if America is smart, and I think there are some parts of

814
00:59:47,512 --> 00:59:52,793
America that are smart in our higher government echelons. I mean, an interesting thing, I don't

815
00:59:52,793 --> 00:59:57,653
know if I've told you, I don't think you and I have this discussion. So I was at Bitcoin Vegas,

816
00:59:57,832 --> 01:00:03,213
you know, this last one, and a guy came up to me. I can't dox him. I can't tell you who he works for.

817
01:00:03,252 --> 01:00:08,313
He works for something very heavily associated with the defense and intelligence community of

818
01:00:08,313 --> 01:00:14,052
the United States. One of his prior employers is NSA. So I checked him out. He's a real deal.

819
01:00:14,052 --> 01:00:15,293
and I said, what's going on?

820
01:00:15,393 --> 01:00:16,893
He walked up to me and he tapped me.

821
01:00:16,953 --> 01:00:17,873
He said, hi, I really liked your book.

822
01:00:17,913 --> 01:00:18,552
I said, oh, thank you.

823
01:00:19,273 --> 01:00:21,093
He said, you know, your book is burning up the halls

824
01:00:21,093 --> 01:00:23,032
of my, you know, where I work.

825
01:00:23,153 --> 01:00:23,933
I said, where do you work?

826
01:00:23,973 --> 01:00:25,313
He explained, I'm not going to say what it was.

827
01:00:25,873 --> 01:00:26,752
And I said, why?

828
01:00:26,973 --> 01:00:28,453
And I said, that's as easy as a why.

829
01:00:28,552 --> 01:00:30,713
He said, well, part of our job is to kind of look

830
01:00:30,713 --> 01:00:32,713
at every existential threat to the United States.

831
01:00:33,512 --> 01:00:36,052
And, you know, hyperinflation is an existential threat.

832
01:00:36,913 --> 01:00:38,433
And, you know, we're using your book

833
01:00:38,433 --> 01:00:41,593
as kind of a textbook to examine how and why

834
01:00:41,593 --> 01:00:43,973
hyperinflation is a risk and talk about

835
01:00:43,973 --> 01:00:48,393
our monetary, you know, the monetary risk that exists within the United States. It's been very

836
01:00:48,393 --> 01:00:52,673
helpful. And I was like, wow, that's interesting. So you take that, you combine that with Jason

837
01:00:52,673 --> 01:00:57,573
Lowry's book, you combine that with, and Lowry telling my partner, David Foley, saying to him,

838
01:00:57,573 --> 01:01:05,633
hey, you know, the people at the CIA, the DOD, the Pentagon, even high up in the treasury,

839
01:01:05,913 --> 01:01:10,413
they get it. They understand that, you know, the monetary threat here, and they get that Bitcoin

840
01:01:10,413 --> 01:01:14,653
is the solution. They're not stupid. I mean, Moran, Stephen Moran is a Bitcoiner. He said it. I mean,

841
01:01:14,673 --> 01:01:19,512
he had tweets supporting Bitcoin. They get it. Now, you know, the Congress, the Senate,

842
01:01:19,752 --> 01:01:24,332
the executive branch, well, this one's a little better, but, you know, they didn't get it at all.

843
01:01:24,493 --> 01:01:28,973
But these people understand that this is the superior form of sound money and therefore

844
01:01:28,973 --> 01:01:34,373
strategically important to the United States. So, you know, I think there's a chance, and I don't

845
01:01:34,373 --> 01:01:38,113
know if Trump and Bacent will have the guts to do it before he leaves. I think some of it will

846
01:01:38,113 --> 01:01:41,752
depend on whether they think they're going to win the next election or not. I think if they go into

847
01:01:41,752 --> 01:01:47,233
the next election thinking, oh, no problem, you know, JD's got it locked up, there's no chance

848
01:01:47,233 --> 01:01:51,653
of a loss, then they may not be forced to do it. But I think if it looks like they're losing

849
01:01:51,653 --> 01:01:55,953
ground and JD isn't going to win the next election, you know, they might try a monetary

850
01:01:55,953 --> 01:02:00,733
reset right then, right there and say, you know, we're going to a Bitcoin standard, you know, and

851
01:02:00,733 --> 01:02:06,213
you know, which would involve a massive devaluation of the dollar, an enormous one-time

852
01:02:06,213 --> 01:02:12,493
inflation across the board, but then actually a solving of the problem of sound money and forcing

853
01:02:12,493 --> 01:02:17,552
the government to balance its budget. So, you know, and I mean, Basant has said things like,

854
01:02:17,633 --> 01:02:21,433
you know, we need another Brent Woods and I want to be at the table when it happens. What?

855
01:02:22,213 --> 01:02:28,413
You know, holy shit. You know, he kind of gets it. I mean, you know, it's not, I mean,

856
01:02:28,512 --> 01:02:32,252
it's funny, these politicians, in some ways they're stupid and in some ways they're not.

857
01:02:32,252 --> 01:02:39,613
And, you know, you can't really look at the $37 trillion of debt and not realize that that's a big elephant in the room, right?

858
01:02:40,252 --> 01:02:46,293
So, and the executive branch, there's a history of the executive branch doing monetary resets.

859
01:02:46,393 --> 01:02:52,552
I mean, you know, the monetary policy in the United States is supposed to be set by Congress because it was said so in Article 1.8 of the Constitution.

860
01:02:53,093 --> 01:02:55,733
You know, only gold and silver money in the monetary policy congressional thing.

861
01:02:55,733 --> 01:03:00,752
Well, fine, until, you know, Lincoln printed greenbacks, executive order, right?

862
01:03:00,752 --> 01:03:06,153
You know, FDR grabbed the gold, revalued it, executive order, right?

863
01:03:06,752 --> 01:03:10,693
You know, Nixon broke us off the gold standard, 71, executive order.

864
01:03:11,273 --> 01:03:18,232
So, you know, there's this history that just says, you know, the president can change the monetary policy.

865
01:03:18,473 --> 01:03:22,653
So, you know, what if they came out and said, guess what, guys, we're going to a Bitcoin standard.

866
01:03:23,252 --> 01:03:25,673
You know, the new price of Bitcoin is a million dollars a coin.

867
01:03:25,773 --> 01:03:27,393
We stand ready to buy it or sell it.

868
01:03:27,593 --> 01:03:30,373
You know, the dollar obviously would depreciate enormously.

869
01:03:30,752 --> 01:03:34,953
and, you know, we're going to match that with a balanced budget amendment,

870
01:03:35,673 --> 01:03:37,752
and off we go.

871
01:03:38,133 --> 01:03:40,732
You know, and China and India are left there with their, you know,

872
01:03:40,773 --> 01:03:43,793
their thumb and their butt going, oh, fuck, now what do we do, you know?

873
01:03:44,293 --> 01:03:46,953
I mean, so, I mean, that would be the smart thing to do.

874
01:03:47,093 --> 01:03:50,852
Now, you know, will we do that, or will they have the political cover

875
01:03:50,852 --> 01:03:51,813
or the guts to do it?

876
01:03:51,852 --> 01:03:55,633
I don't know, probably not, but it's the right thing to do.

877
01:03:55,633 --> 01:04:00,433
That's what we should do, you know, if you want to restore fairness

878
01:04:00,433 --> 01:04:12,653
And at that point in time, you know, we could go forward in a much, much better world, you know, because all of this grift, all of this monetary nonsense would just go away.

879
01:04:12,852 --> 01:04:16,352
It just would. And the currency would be sound again.

880
01:04:17,013 --> 01:04:18,332
Can we play that out a little bit?

881
01:04:18,373 --> 01:04:26,313
Because I'm there's one kind of element I'm not sure about, which is let's say the U.S. did that, but continue to run a trade deficit.

882
01:04:26,532 --> 01:04:30,113
Would that not just end up with China having all the Bitcoin?

883
01:04:30,113 --> 01:04:31,953
Do they need to also fix the trade deficit?

884
01:04:32,913 --> 01:04:35,433
Well, yeah, but yes and no.

885
01:04:35,673 --> 01:04:40,573
The trade deficit, by definition, would have to disappear because we couldn't afford it, right?

886
01:04:40,673 --> 01:04:46,752
In other words, you know, suddenly we would have to pay in real money.

887
01:04:47,852 --> 01:04:58,893
And, you know, if we didn't have the real money, I mean, their currency would appreciate massively in a way that we couldn't buy as much of their stuff and it wouldn't be cheap stuff.

888
01:04:58,893 --> 01:05:06,032
I mean, the reason it's cheap stuff is that, you know, they've been willing to hold our currency and they've been, you know, they've held their currency down.

889
01:05:06,133 --> 01:05:11,453
So they've been very, what's it called, mercantile in their dealings with us.

890
01:05:11,773 --> 01:05:19,532
When you go to a sound currency and everybody's playing by the same sound currency rules, then, yeah, okay, they can make cheaper shit.

891
01:05:20,252 --> 01:05:22,413
But we've got to have the money to really pay for it.

892
01:05:22,433 --> 01:05:23,293
We can't buy it.

893
01:05:23,633 --> 01:05:26,293
I mean, the way we buy it now is we issue debt to buy it.

894
01:05:26,293 --> 01:05:30,032
We issue paper, which they're willing to take in order to buy it.

895
01:05:30,093 --> 01:05:32,352
So we get more than our fair share of cheap shit.

896
01:05:32,873 --> 01:05:37,493
And they sell more and they want to do that because they want to be a mercantile nation.

897
01:05:38,013 --> 01:05:43,373
If we suddenly are back to a sound monetary unit, well, yeah, they're making cheap shit.

898
01:05:43,453 --> 01:05:46,513
But we're not producing anything here that they want.

899
01:05:47,193 --> 01:05:49,273
They're not going to take our dollars for it.

900
01:05:49,693 --> 01:05:51,013
They'll only take Bitcoin.

901
01:05:51,573 --> 01:05:52,493
Well, then guess what?

902
01:05:52,552 --> 01:05:56,133
Suddenly we're going to have to actually earn and do something that the world really wants.

903
01:05:56,133 --> 01:05:57,513
if we want to buy the world's shit.

904
01:05:57,773 --> 01:05:59,493
So the trade deficit would disappear.

905
01:05:59,793 --> 01:06:00,213
Follow what I'm saying?

906
01:06:00,232 --> 01:06:00,893
Yeah, that makes sense.

907
01:06:01,013 --> 01:06:02,032
I mean, just by definition.

908
01:06:02,673 --> 01:06:02,913
Yeah.

909
01:06:03,493 --> 01:06:06,133
So, I mean, it would just balance everything

910
01:06:06,133 --> 01:06:08,552
so that you'd have to, I mean, you know,

911
01:06:08,573 --> 01:06:09,693
and it wouldn't necessarily be good

912
01:06:09,693 --> 01:06:10,913
for the United States right away,

913
01:06:10,933 --> 01:06:12,653
but we'd come back and find things to do.

914
01:06:12,713 --> 01:06:14,532
I mean, you know, one of the things that,

915
01:06:14,613 --> 01:06:16,252
I always marveled at this when I was younger

916
01:06:16,252 --> 01:06:18,052
is how much better the U.S. lived

917
01:06:18,052 --> 01:06:19,453
than most of the world.

918
01:06:19,453 --> 01:06:22,913
I mean, but it was because we had the reserve currency.

919
01:06:23,493 --> 01:06:25,093
I mean, we could print pieces of paper,

920
01:06:25,093 --> 01:06:30,913
send them overseas people would accept them even though they were somewhat worthless or had less

921
01:06:30,913 --> 01:06:35,413
worth than we were attributing to them and they would send us their shit i mean that was a great

922
01:06:35,413 --> 01:06:40,713
deal i mean it's absolutely insane when you say it like that that's how it works yeah i mean it's

923
01:06:40,713 --> 01:06:44,973
a great deal if you can pull it off and that's why you know that's why the american lifestyle

924
01:06:44,973 --> 01:06:50,173
has been as good as it's been but you know i mean sadly you know this reset is going to involve

925
01:06:50,173 --> 01:06:54,173
everybody in the world is going to have to pull their own weight in terms of you know you'll eat

926
01:06:54,173 --> 01:06:58,332
what you kill. I mean, if, you know, if, if there are Americans doing good stuff and adding a lot

927
01:06:58,332 --> 01:07:02,732
of value and I mean, look, in some areas we're extremely competitive in technology, we're damn

928
01:07:02,732 --> 01:07:06,773
competitive. I mean, Apple and other country companies, I mean, there's some things we do

929
01:07:06,773 --> 01:07:11,293
extremely well and those will be rewarded. But, um, you know, there are other things that, that,

930
01:07:11,433 --> 01:07:16,513
that we don't do so well and we'll have to either shape up and, or we won't live as high a lifestyle

931
01:07:16,513 --> 01:07:20,732
as we can because we're not adding value there. I mean, again, that's a world I want to see.

932
01:07:20,732 --> 01:07:25,433
like that that's how the world should work and hopefully it does in the future um just lastly i

933
01:07:25,433 --> 01:07:29,232
know before you started you pulled up a chart that i think we should look at because one of the things

934
01:07:29,232 --> 01:07:34,653
that you've said oh yeah over and over again um is that gold moves first bitcoin moves fastest

935
01:07:34,653 --> 01:07:39,593
um so you think that we're about to have a bit of an explosion in bitcoin price

936
01:07:39,593 --> 01:07:45,093
yeah let me just um give me a moment here let me just find it on my screen so

937
01:07:45,093 --> 01:07:52,953
So this is a chart that my partner and I, David Foley, use a lot just for people watching.

938
01:07:53,073 --> 01:07:54,073
So this chart just on.

939
01:07:54,393 --> 01:07:56,552
So this is from 2018 to present.

940
01:07:56,713 --> 01:07:59,153
It's a little out of date because gold's now over 3,500.

941
01:07:59,813 --> 01:08:04,173
And this is the price of gold in gold and the price of Bitcoin in orange.

942
01:08:04,413 --> 01:08:05,433
Funny I can pick that color.

943
01:08:06,933 --> 01:08:09,613
But note the scales are very, very different.

944
01:08:10,893 --> 01:08:13,933
You know, gold has gone from 1,000 to 3,000.

945
01:08:13,933 --> 01:08:15,013
It's now 3,600.

946
01:08:15,173 --> 01:08:16,232
So it'd be the upper right-hand corner,

947
01:08:16,292 --> 01:08:16,773
be a little higher.

948
01:08:17,593 --> 01:08:18,792
And the orange is Bitcoin.

949
01:08:18,953 --> 01:08:20,852
But again, the scales are different.

950
01:08:20,993 --> 01:08:24,633
It's gone from 10,000 to 117,000, right?

951
01:08:25,073 --> 01:08:27,292
So Bitcoin's moved a lot farther than gold.

952
01:08:27,633 --> 01:08:29,413
But that's not the point of the chart.

953
01:08:29,513 --> 01:08:33,453
The point of the chart is the synchronization

954
01:08:33,453 --> 01:08:34,352
to some degree.

955
01:08:34,453 --> 01:08:35,973
They've kind of generally moved together.

956
01:08:36,212 --> 01:08:37,993
But here's what I found most interesting.

957
01:08:38,073 --> 01:08:38,652
Look at the beginning.

958
01:08:38,773 --> 01:08:40,533
Look at 2018, 2019, 2020.

959
01:08:41,393 --> 01:08:42,292
Look at how far.

960
01:08:42,292 --> 01:08:49,292
So there was a lot of monetary debasement in 2019 and 2020 as Powell pivoted and then COVID happened.

961
01:08:49,413 --> 01:08:52,813
And you could just kind of smell the money printer warming up and going again.

962
01:08:53,112 --> 01:08:55,933
And look at how gold took off like a rocket, okay?

963
01:08:56,393 --> 01:09:03,212
You know, and it went from, I don't know, call it 750 to, you know, almost up to 2000, right, at the peak in 2020.

964
01:09:04,133 --> 01:09:07,553
And during that same time frame, look at how Bitcoin just languished along.

965
01:09:07,813 --> 01:09:11,133
You know, I think on the scale here, I think it was around 10,000 about the time.

966
01:09:11,732 --> 01:09:14,333
It had actually been as low as five, but it was kind of 10 in this window.

967
01:09:14,692 --> 01:09:19,033
And then suddenly when the COVID thing really started to kick in, everybody figured out what Bitcoin was.

968
01:09:19,473 --> 01:09:20,152
Holy shit.

969
01:09:20,573 --> 01:09:23,453
Bitcoin went from 10 to 60 really fast.

970
01:09:23,453 --> 01:09:25,373
So gold moved first.

971
01:09:25,852 --> 01:09:27,652
Bitcoin crushed it when it moved.

972
01:09:27,792 --> 01:09:28,973
Much, much more movement.

973
01:09:29,533 --> 01:09:29,813
Okay.

974
01:09:29,953 --> 01:09:31,933
So then they kind of both calmed down.

975
01:09:32,612 --> 01:09:33,493
Gold dipped down.

976
01:09:33,633 --> 01:09:35,093
Notice again, gold dipped first.

977
01:09:35,212 --> 01:09:36,013
Bitcoin was still running.

978
01:09:36,112 --> 01:09:36,712
Gold was dipping.

979
01:09:37,112 --> 01:09:37,352
Whoops.

980
01:09:37,792 --> 01:09:38,893
Bitcoin followed it down.

981
01:09:39,073 --> 01:09:40,973
Sam Bankman-Fried played a role in that.

982
01:09:41,133 --> 01:09:46,953
then notice how gold starts to level off and we got a secondary run in Bitcoin because that

983
01:09:46,953 --> 01:09:52,252
whole run had been truncated by Bankman-Fried and the China thing. So it's a little bit of an

984
01:09:52,252 --> 01:09:56,533
anomaly. Then gold's kind of flat. Bitcoin came down there. The correlation didn't really work

985
01:09:56,533 --> 01:10:00,112
too much. I think the correlation didn't work there though, because that was like Checkmate

986
01:10:00,112 --> 01:10:05,373
describes that as the scam pump because it was basically all the arbitrage, all the FTX stuff,

987
01:10:05,373 --> 01:10:08,232
the 3AC stuff. I think you can almost ignore that second pump.

988
01:10:08,232 --> 01:10:14,473
okay fair enough fair enough yeah i i was thinking yeah you're right ftx wasn't 2021 it was over here

989
01:10:14,473 --> 01:10:18,773
you're right okay so then so then you know then they kind of moved together and actually bitcoin

990
01:10:18,773 --> 01:10:24,933
led gold down a little in 2022 tighter monetary conditions okay so now bitcoin is enjoying you

991
01:10:24,933 --> 01:10:29,112
know kind of the the the free money and everything when the free money gets taken away bitcoin gets

992
01:10:29,112 --> 01:10:34,373
slammed hard gold got slammed not as hard but that's fitting with the you know bitcoin moves a

993
01:10:34,373 --> 01:10:40,013
lot further and faster, right? But here, you know, and here, but here again, notice this in late 2022,

994
01:10:40,192 --> 01:10:45,633
gold starts moving up, Bitcoin's still flat, right? Yeah, it comes up a little bit, gold moves up even

995
01:10:45,633 --> 01:10:51,633
further. Okay, Bitcoin's up a little bit more. Then you get a downturn in 2023, you know, gold starts

996
01:10:51,633 --> 01:10:57,453
moving down, Bitcoin's still going up, but Bitcoin follows gold down. Okay, so now gold starts moving

997
01:10:57,453 --> 01:11:01,993
up again. And this time, there wasn't much of a lag, Bitcoin catches up, and Bitcoin really catches

998
01:11:01,993 --> 01:11:07,553
up. Then you pause, but gold moves out of the pause again first. Then Bitcoin comes, it goes

999
01:11:07,553 --> 01:11:14,413
crazy up again, right? And so my point here is just that they're correlated, but often gold

1000
01:11:14,413 --> 01:11:19,053
smells at first. And right now gold is cooking. We're over 3,600. We're running to 3,700.

1001
01:11:19,833 --> 01:11:24,712
Everybody's kind of tired. It's amazing to me, right? Everyone's frustrated that Bitcoin's at

1002
01:11:24,712 --> 01:11:29,333
115. I mean, if you told me back here Bitcoin was going to be at 115, I'd have said, hallelujah,

1003
01:11:29,333 --> 01:11:35,413
right i mean and you know or and or that micro strategy i mean i'm i'm i i howl at all these

1004
01:11:35,413 --> 01:11:39,232
micro strategy people who are just crying in their beer that sailor's done them wrong because

1005
01:11:39,232 --> 01:11:43,513
micro strategy hasn't moved for a while well just wait guys micro strategy is going to a thousand

1006
01:11:43,513 --> 01:11:50,393
plus um and the point is that gold smells what's coming next because it's already moving whereas

1007
01:11:50,393 --> 01:11:55,692
bitcoin is still lagging a little bit but there's another chart i don't have it here but it shows m2

1008
01:11:55,692 --> 01:12:00,792
global m2 and it continues to grow and it's starting to go up the global m2 is now growing

1009
01:12:00,792 --> 01:12:05,192
at about 4.8 percent a year it actually went slightly negative when powell tightened things

1010
01:12:05,192 --> 01:12:11,852
greatly in 2022 but we're back to growing we've hit an all-time high and all i would say is you

1011
01:12:11,852 --> 01:12:15,313
know bitcoin people should be just rooting for gold because it's the early indicator

1012
01:12:15,313 --> 01:12:20,893
and so i i fully expect that kind of in the tail end of this year probably in the next you know

1013
01:12:20,893 --> 01:12:25,933
three months, we're in September now. I see us at the end of the year at 140, 150 Bitcoin,

1014
01:12:26,553 --> 01:12:31,212
and maybe $4,000 gold. And who knows, maybe the Bitcoin overshoots and goes to 150.

1015
01:12:32,013 --> 01:12:37,013
Maybe we correct a little bit then. And I think this cycle takes us to kind of 200, 250 in Bitcoin.

1016
01:12:37,533 --> 01:12:42,073
I think this cycle maybe takes us to 5,000 in gold. I don't know. You know, it's, look,

1017
01:12:42,073 --> 01:12:46,833
some of this is just reading tea leaves, and it's impossible to know with great certainty what's

1018
01:12:46,833 --> 01:12:53,593
going to happen. But I, you know, I find I want to offer words of encouragement to the Bitcoin people.

1019
01:12:54,053 --> 01:13:01,553
Don't be mad that gold's running. Be happy because it's about to come to you. And I own both.

1020
01:13:01,993 --> 01:13:05,752
You know, I own both. So October is right around the corner. Bitcoin's going to rip.

1021
01:13:06,073 --> 01:13:11,593
I think it really is. I really. And as we know, you know, that's the other thing back. I won't go

1022
01:13:11,593 --> 01:13:16,152
back to the chart, but did you notice how the way it trades? I mean, it just does these long periods

1023
01:13:16,152 --> 01:13:22,593
and nothing. And then it really moves. You know, it moves with authority. And I mean, I have to say,

1024
01:13:22,672 --> 01:13:29,313
I'm a little puzzled when I look at all the BTC companies and the corporate buying. I'm a little

1025
01:13:29,313 --> 01:13:34,093
puzzled it hasn't moved. I mean, there's been a lot of Bitcoin soaked up from a lot of sources.

1026
01:13:34,953 --> 01:13:40,093
And I don't know, maybe it's been suppressed by some paper. I know, I do know, I used to have no

1027
01:13:40,093 --> 01:13:45,232
fear of paper Bitcoin. Now I look at the size of the Bitcoin futures market. It's gotten pretty

1028
01:13:45,232 --> 01:13:50,273
damn big. I mean, the Bitcoin perpetual futures on Binance, the last time I checked, the numbers

1029
01:13:50,273 --> 01:13:54,433
were quite large. And, you know, the, I don't know, 20 billion, I mean, it was billions and billions,

1030
01:13:54,533 --> 01:13:59,073
a lot more than it had been in the past. And so, you know, so some people are on the wrong side of

1031
01:13:59,073 --> 01:14:02,633
this trade, but guess what? They're going to get their faces ripped off, you know, when Bitcoin

1032
01:14:02,633 --> 01:14:06,953
takes out 130 with authority, because we're going to probably be at 180 faster than we realize.

1033
01:14:07,752 --> 01:14:13,813
And, you know, as I like to say, they're going to have a deeply religious experience. So, I mean,

1034
01:14:13,813 --> 01:14:15,493
I think that's what we have to look forward to.

1035
01:14:15,732 --> 01:14:21,953
So I, you know, but this, again, this, it makes it all very, very hard because, and I think it's very important.

1036
01:14:22,172 --> 01:14:25,553
You know, people sometimes say, well, what's going to happen this week, this month, next year?

1037
01:14:26,152 --> 01:14:28,252
You know, I've been around, I've done this for a long time.

1038
01:14:28,252 --> 01:14:29,973
I've been through a bunch of these cycles.

1039
01:14:30,172 --> 01:14:32,752
And I try to think in five-year timeframes.

1040
01:14:32,873 --> 01:14:37,033
As you all know, you know, in four-year timeframes, you've always come out ahead in Bitcoin.

1041
01:14:37,033 --> 01:14:43,033
and, you know, trying to predict the next month or week or year, a half year,

1042
01:14:43,413 --> 01:14:46,192
half year you can kind of do, but it's kind of a mugs game.

1043
01:14:46,273 --> 01:14:47,073
You just don't know.

1044
01:14:47,513 --> 01:14:51,993
But I'm pretty sure that, you know, in several years, you know,

1045
01:14:51,993 --> 01:14:54,453
and I rely actually a lot on the power law model.

1046
01:14:54,493 --> 01:14:55,513
I think it's a decent model.

1047
01:14:55,513 --> 01:14:58,593
It explains a lot going backwards on an R-squared basis.

1048
01:14:59,252 --> 01:15:01,172
Now, I eventually think it'll break to the upside

1049
01:15:01,172 --> 01:15:03,513
because I do think we'll get into hyper-Bitcoinization.

1050
01:15:04,352 --> 01:15:06,993
I mean, one thing is, the other thing I would say that I think is very important

1051
01:15:06,993 --> 01:15:13,133
point, Danny, and I want to make is that all of this is happening just in terms of kind of a small

1052
01:15:13,133 --> 01:15:18,513
big print. I mean, we're kind of in a big print. I mean, they're kind of doing some shadow QE.

1053
01:15:18,672 --> 01:15:22,813
They're kind of talking about stuff. We're anticipating lower Fed funds, you know, etc.

1054
01:15:22,913 --> 01:15:27,633
But this isn't really the big event yet. Okay, we're just kind of warming up. I mean, imagine

1055
01:15:27,633 --> 01:15:34,913
something really breaks. I mean, a la 2008 or 2020 COVID. I mean, and that's possible,

1056
01:15:34,913 --> 01:15:36,212
Not certain, but possible.

1057
01:15:36,313 --> 01:15:38,152
I think it's likely within a two or three year time frame.

1058
01:15:38,612 --> 01:15:39,773
Something really breaks.

1059
01:15:39,852 --> 01:15:40,672
And you know what they're going to do.

1060
01:15:40,712 --> 01:15:43,073
They're going to bring out the monetary fire hoses.

1061
01:15:43,712 --> 01:15:46,273
And man, when that happens, just look out.

1062
01:15:46,913 --> 01:15:48,712
You know, we're going to Fed balance sheet 50.

1063
01:15:48,813 --> 01:15:51,112
And this is how currencies fail.

1064
01:15:51,712 --> 01:15:54,192
You know, the next time it'll be bigger than the last time.

1065
01:15:54,252 --> 01:15:55,273
It'll be more aggressive.

1066
01:15:55,473 --> 01:15:56,652
There'll be more money printed.

1067
01:15:57,013 --> 01:16:03,692
And there'll be a larger segment of the population that'll say, oh my God, they can never stop printing money.

1068
01:16:03,692 --> 01:16:26,393
And that's the famous von Mises quote. Once everyone realizes that it's part of the policy and they can never stop, the currency is doomed. It's just literally doomed. And sadly, you know, this is how hyperinflations occur. It could go to zero. I don't wish that on America. I actually don't think that's the base case of what will happen. But it's a tail possibility if we don't get our shit together.

1069
01:16:26,393 --> 01:16:33,252
and so and and and i feel very comfortable leaning on the inflation side you know is this gonna is

1070
01:16:33,252 --> 01:16:38,212
this trade gonna make me fabulously rich who the hell knows but is this better than any other trade

1071
01:16:38,212 --> 01:16:42,913
out there oh yeah i'm pretty sure about that i mean this is the right you know we are on the right

1072
01:16:42,913 --> 01:16:50,712
side of this trade you know unless unless suddenly washington dc gets incredibly responsible and of

1073
01:16:50,712 --> 01:16:54,833
course whenever i say that everybody laughs because that's not it doesn't feel very likely but

1074
01:16:54,833 --> 01:16:56,612
But, you know, stranger shit's happened.

1075
01:16:56,752 --> 01:16:59,212
And if things get painful enough, maybe they will get responsible.

1076
01:16:59,473 --> 01:17:04,152
So we have to keep that in the back of our mind that, you know, if they get responsible,

1077
01:17:04,333 --> 01:17:05,752
this isn't as obvious a trade.

1078
01:17:06,453 --> 01:17:09,953
But, you know, as long as they're behaving the way they're behaving, I feel like we're

1079
01:17:09,953 --> 01:17:10,612
on the right side.

1080
01:17:10,852 --> 01:17:14,553
I put pretty low percentage odds on them behaving responsibly, but we will see.

1081
01:17:14,833 --> 01:17:15,553
Yeah, we all do.

1082
01:17:15,612 --> 01:17:16,852
But stranger shit's happened.

1083
01:17:17,173 --> 01:17:17,732
That's true.

1084
01:17:18,033 --> 01:17:20,572
I can't think of a better way to end the show than that, Larry.

1085
01:17:20,572 --> 01:17:22,433
We've got the prints happening.

1086
01:17:22,692 --> 01:17:23,633
The big prints coming.

1087
01:17:23,993 --> 01:17:24,752
Bitcoin's going to rip.

1088
01:17:24,833 --> 01:17:32,493
things are looking good oh you know the um i've got it here too don't hesitate to buy the book

1089
01:17:32,493 --> 01:17:38,453
and pass it on obviously i'm uh it's a very self-interested uh shilling statement but um

1090
01:17:38,453 --> 01:17:42,313
actually shilling is a negative term i mean in the most positive way possible it's a great book

1091
01:17:42,313 --> 01:17:47,593
can help people so yeah i think it can help people so i if you know if you care about your

1092
01:17:47,593 --> 01:17:52,993
friends and family pass it on because um you know the way the way we win this is we get more people

1093
01:17:52,993 --> 01:17:58,813
to advocate for sound money, because if we get enough, we'll get it. And if we get it,

1094
01:17:58,993 --> 01:18:04,752
life will be better. I really, history shows that. And I want my kids to live in a better world.

1095
01:18:05,473 --> 01:18:09,433
Absolutely. Me too. Well, Larry, I always love talking to you. Thank you for this.

1096
01:18:10,072 --> 01:18:13,673
Oh, likewise. Hopefully I'll see you around at something at some point in the near future,

1097
01:18:13,673 --> 01:18:18,413
but thank you. There's no doubt. There's no doubt. Thanks. All right. Cheers. Take care.

1098
01:18:22,993 --> 01:18:52,973
Thank you.