It is a time of chaos, as we are officially in the fourth turning.
There is war in the Middle East, riots in the streets, and even worse, every day there's a new paper Bitcoin company.
While Lightning Wallets are acting meek, running from the pressures of the state, there is one man who has planted his flag.
Today we are summoning the storm as Evan Kalupas joins us, the creator of Zeus Wallet.
He's the man bringing the ability to interface with the lightning network in a manner unparalleled by any other lightning wall.
Phoenix, Breeze, Wall of Satoshi, all these lightning wallet developers, they stay up at night terrorized by the image of the world's premier graphics.
with no plans for support of securitized paper bitcoin.
Joining us today, Evan Kalupas, how you doing?
I'm doing great, boys. Thanks for having me back on the show.
It's really a privilege and an honor.
It's been a while since we've done one of these, Rod.
This is the Beagles behind the podcast, the premier bitcoin interview show.
How lucky do you feel to be joining us today, Evan?
I mean, listen, anytime I have the opportunity to go on one of my favorite podcasts that I listen to regularly, part of my 40 hours a week, I can't help but think that I'm blessed.
So how many people can say that, that they go on their favorite podcasts themselves?
Not many.
Yeah, it feels great to be back doing this, and it feels great.
We hung out in Vegas at the conference.
We got to know it.
You came to satirize the system.
A midget came flying out of the ring, crashed into you, spilled your beer.
Just a little bit.
I kept most of the beer.
I want that to be on the record.
I'm not a big beer-spilling guy.
Why?
Plus, it wasn't a full-size guy.
If it was a full wrestler, maybe I would have spilled more.
Just a little splash.
Yeah.
It was I expected, but you handled it like a champ.
You're flexible.
You're adaptable.
That's what it takes to be a lightning entrepreneur.
But first and foremost, you got to survive.
Yeah, absolutely.
And right now, it's difficult.
It feels like it's hard to survive.
I don't know if you've been monitoring the situation, but we've got, you know, the United States just bombed the shit out of Iran.
And apparently he took out a nuclear facility that was also found to been running a shitload of bid axes.
So we dropped bunker busters in Iran.
It took out.
It was a noticeable drop in the hash rate, corresponding with that bombing.
And this is according to Marty Bent.
I have not independently verified this, but this is according to Marty Bent that they were mining Bitcoin in the Iranian nuclear facilities.
So, you know, with that backdrop, like what is your take on where we're at?
The opening mentioned fourth turning.
Do you think that we are in – first of all, do you believe in the fourth turning?
And how would you respond to that?
Well, first and foremost – well, first of all, excuse my dog.
He's having a hard time.
What's your dog's name again?
What's your dog's name?
You told us this.
his name's uh murray rothbark he's uh he's a bit of a gold bug so he doesn't really like me doing
bitcoin podcasts but i don't i don't know maybe maybe he does i feel like if murray rothbard
who he's named after was alive today he'd probably be a bitcoiner um but yeah murray himself he's
been having a hard time the last couple days something in the yard is driving him nuts it's
been a bad it's been a bad few days for libertarians so if murray bothbard is a libertarian
And it sucks because we just Donald Trump reneged on his promise.
He he drug us into a foreign war, but he actually kept it under two weeks.
You know, seems like and it he projected it as a big success.
So, you know, everybody's just kind of like his approval ratings have actually probably gone up since this.
And the libertarians are they thought this was going to be the thing that finally brought Donald Trump down was breaking his promise to libertarians.
But, you know, if it wasn't, you know, it was it was a bad week.
So maybe that's Murray's problem.
Yeah, I think it's like a couple of things like the Donald Trump thing, New York City, at least for the Democratic primary elected, like a socialist.
Murray Rothbard was from New York, too.
So he's got that tie to, you know, our ties to New York.
What are your ties to New York?
No, I'm from New York originally.
um you know i just moved down the road basically during covid um now oh okay so you were in new
york during covid yeah yeah i was i was in astoria man astoria is fucking best part of new york that's
where all the greeks hang out that's where i get all my yiro it was fantastic uh until uh you know
covid came around and really put a damper on everything and yeah sure you could still get
your takeout and that was fantastic but you know you were deal was you were gone they were the king
of were you the king of uh queen's greek town oh yeah i was i was the king of suvlaki which was
you know also the name of one of my favorite cards um yeah man it was a great time out there
you know we had we had a lot on um quick question what are you what is your opinion of
mandrick's baklava as a greek man from greek town like is is it overrated do you yeah did you could
your mom make better baklava than mandrick or uh or is it is it is it worth the hype it is but it's
not like authentic authentic style like mandrick brings his own style to it like it's super sweet
super sugary over the top it's like drowning interesting but it actually like it delivers
and he does like a couple different flavors so like if he's got something new cooking up
he's like he's basically the walter white of like baklava it's like it's addictive
so um you know any time i get a chance to see him he's just got like he produces it by the pound too
um but yeah i have i try to have you know one or two pieces try to limit it there
because it is fucking loaded with calories but oh it's tasty it's really good
what what do you what is your reaction to the place you grew up for the pace he's been a decade
a place that you started to probably i mean any i think anybody who lives in new york for a decade
probably starts really identifies a new yorker what is your reaction as a new yorker to uh
your your city electing at least in the primary uh a car or a socialist over an italian pervert
and as yeah you know like like i i like i told you this before dude i mean do you think in my
lifetime or how many decades we've had anyone who's remotely politically aligned with with us
like not not really i mean the closest thing we've had um is i guess now which is really funny is the
current mayor mayor adams he was speaking in vegas he was talking about bit bonds in new york city
so he's like sort of
oh man
Murray you're killing me buddy
um
yeah I think what he's trying to say
is a mess man I mean
de Blasio
Bloomberg
Giuliani
so it's not
never been great
so
what do you
I just want to throw a hypothetical out there
sure so New York politics
are famously screwed up.
They have been for a long time.
I think this is just how things work
in most major cities
in the United States in the political realm.
Uh-huh.
What do you think
things would look like
if Dennis Porter
was the mayor of New York City?
Could he clean it up and fix it?
No, I think he would do
a 180 completely
towards the 70s.
Basically,
Times Square would be
back to its pornographic roots.
Basically, everyone
opening their newspapers,
turning into the local TV,
would be fully erect.
First of all, I don't think you could
run a society like that.
It would be full-on decay at that rate.
Well, actually,
think about this, though.
Okay.
Remember, we had stop and frisk
is what cleaned up new york um and if you were to do a stop and frisk and someone did not have an
erection when when given you know a youtube video showed them of dennis porter or a picture
uh if they didn't get an erection that means that their their assentives were misaligned
and you could probably bring them in and find that they were getting into like criminal behavior or
just not savory citizens um i think that would be a great way to clean up new york city like stop
and frisk boner or no boner and it's it's it's a clear cut there's you you don't yeah
that they're not getting their 40 hours per weekend um but i don't know i feel like dennis
just transcends that too like what you don't think he's attractive to socialists and communists like
Have you seen the man? He's a god.
He's the alpha orange pillar.
Yeah.
The apex orange pillar.
I feel like anyone who wasn't erect soon would be after him being in the media there, ubiquitous through the media there, within a couple weeks.
Would you even really need to take action, block these people away?
I don't even think so.
But at the same time, the debauchery that we'd fall into, I just don't think that putting New York City on a Bitcoin standard would cancel that out.
I feel like it would be fucking nuts.
So I don't know.
Some things you really got to just put into practice to see how they play out.
But man, it's like Prometheus and fire, man.
Who knows, man?
A whole new world would be possible.
Yeah. So the as seeing New York City elect a socialist doesn't surprise me.
And it doesn't surprise people who listen to 40 hours of Bitcoin podcast per week.
We knew that New York City was full of woke socialist retards.
It was just you know but all the all my friends in New York all the people who love they think New York City is the best city in the world despite some of its problems here and there They assure us that that was not true that what we heard on podcast we were told to to not believe the things we hear on podcasts
about new york city and it turns out the podcasters were right and do you think this is like a big um
you know a coup de grace so to speak for the people in new york city who think it's the best
in the world to maybe have some humility for you know just have a little humility yeah i mean
you gotta be staying humble in this world everything is just changing so rapidly
but at the same time like you know new york is the greatest city in the world and in what terms
uh in terms of you know lifestyle when you're young and you're going out and socializing
is it really the best for you know later stages in your life um probably not unless you have
it's not great for right it's not great for it's not great for cigarette smokers oh it's awful
have you know how much a pack is out there is it's probably like 13 40 probably more since i
left dude honestly i have no idea but it seems brutal um but yeah the the syntaxes are just uh
thrill out there.
It's really great if you're working
for a paper Bitcoin company.
New York is
the epicenter of that right now.
Is it?
What companies are out there?
Listen, I haven't been following the paper
Bitcoin, except for the non-KYC
paper Bitcoin stuff, as closely as
you guys, so I don't really know.
Some of the newer ones, they're more
decentralized paper bitcoin's a little bit more decentralized than he used to be um but you know
until recently the big one and still the biggest is black rock so black rocks are on wall street
so that's a big bitcoin present i mean you mentioned it uh the the current mayor adams he uh
he has used bitcoin when it was politically advantageous for him for the past few years
um so he he gets bitcoin he's not against it he uses it when you know he needs non-kyc
fucking tickets to turkey airline tickets to turkey but yeah you know i mean um such a character that
guy but the yeah exactly so you know you pay for bitcoin's more decentralized uh but it's still big
for for blackrock but it's um i forgot where i was going with that but uh it definitely i would
considered the epicenter of paper bitcoin and i think it will continue to be it there there have
been some attempts to uh to go after new york uh and replace it so like dan held convinced uh
francis suarez to to use a stacks thing you remember that and try and make miami
a financial hub but he learned the hard one was on stacks yeah oh geez yeah yeah
shit coin on a shit coin that's shit coin squared but uh yeah i mean he learned the
hard way that shit coining is not the way to uh uh retain or gain the title of uh
financial capital the world but yeah do you think that uh
you know, we're watching this process as people are coming to the conclusion that Bitcoin has won.
Do you think that New York will be able to be disrupted as the financial hub of the world?
Or do you think with their adoption of paper Bitcoin, is that what it takes for them to retain their spot?
It's going to be really, really hard to shake.
I think eventually a new hub will emerge, but it's hard to shake the amount of capital that's in it right now.
And obviously they're going to try to get in on this crypto thing with the paper Bitcoin companies,
with the exchanges that are out there already, hopping in on the trend and trying to retain their status.
It's really going to take a big player to really get behind it.
and create a new hub.
But at the same time, it's not like the old paradigm
where you had to go to the exchange
to fucking physically settle stuff.
Everything is distributed online through the internet.
So we'll see.
We'll see.
I think eventually something will overtake it,
but this is not going to happen soon.
It's all just going to be a steady decline
as more options and hubs.
Do you think that there's any other city in the world or any other bar in any other city that could be as iconic as Pupke?
Or you say, hey, I'm going to tweet every day until somebody on Wall Street or somebody in the paper Bitcoin industry needs me for a drink at Pupke.
Or guys like, I can't remember his name, but he's from Austin.
he's at the Bitcoin meetup there
but he was asking
Albert Strobel
to go on a date with him
and that he was going to be
at PubKey
I like it
this is an iconic
it's an iconic
bar in the capital
of capitalism
do you think that there's
any place else
that could replace that
because until that
there's something more iconic
than getting a beer
with somebody at PubKey
New York is number one
but with a socialist mayor
if he wins
the general election
that's going to definitely put
I mean, Matthew Cratter is going to have a field day with people going to a socialist city to hang out with influencers.
Pledger is going to have a field day with that kind of behavior.
A hundred percent.
Pledger is going to be so fucking grumpy.
He's going to call it out right away.
He might do a tweet thread.
But in terms of PubKey, I don't know.
I feel like they sort of see the writing on the wall, too.
They sort of know the power of distributed networks.
I think they're trying to branch out to some other cities.
I think DC is for sure on the way very soon after that.
I think Thomas, the founder over there,
has basically said he's willing to expand to basically any city in the world
except for Boston.
So we'll see.
I hope to see some other competitors too,
give them a little bit of a run for their money.
Everybody is relocating to Washington.
Even the paper Bitcoiners are relocating.
Are you going to relocate to Washington?
Because I think people talk about the Cantillionaire effect.
I think Bitcoiners are realizing that it's literal proximity to the money printer.
So they're all trying to get as close to the White House and the Federal Reserve.
They're like encircling.
So Bitcoiners are cornering the fiat system.
They've got it cornered in Washington, D.C.
They've got it cornered at the Fed.
And they've got it cornered at the CIA.
They've got a query of the FBI.
Bitcoiners are closing in.
And we're going to fix this.
You know, Bitcoin's going to fix all these departments.
It's going to fix the government.
It's going to fix the kiosk system.
So are you getting in on that?
Are you going to, like, Bitcoin policy institute summits and, like, hanging out in D.C.
so you can get close to the mine printer and fix it with those?
So, I mean, I'm going to be honest.
Like, the thought has crossed my mind.
And so the first Bitcoin policy summit I got invited to was the one with Senator Lummis.
So that was the last one.
And then she went to PubKey and did a little event.
And I thought she was going to go pay with Bitcoin.
And we get a little transaction over Zeus, right?
And what does this bitch do?
Tether.
She pays.
No, not tether.
Maybe worse.
She pays with cash.
And she's like, I'm spending my dollars and I'm holding my Bitcoin.
And I'm like, fuck.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Are you talking trash about cash, bro?
Cash is private.
They're trying to take cash away from us and you're disparaging it.
I mean, everybody's, yeah, you're a lightning guy.
Everybody's got shoulder backs.
But cash, come on.
Okay, listen, obviously cash has amazing properties.
They're itching to take it away from us.
But, you know, at least Tether, you know, we keep it in the family.
Who's they?
I'll offer him.
Who's they?
Oh, that's a good question.
Listen, I'm not sure if it's advisable for me to say who.
I'm not sure if I have enough clout to say who.
I think I might see some repercussions.
Maybe next year if Zeus does enough sales, gets enough clout.
The monetary maximus.
Monetary maximus in Bitcoin.
That's him.
Yeah, yeah.
That's a good enough answer for now, I guess.
um yeah yeah so uh keep going on and uh uh oh okay
while this is hot so like we're gonna work policy summit but there's another one going on right now
but then richard invited me to the show and i'm like well i'm not going to be recording the show
fucking down to DC. So I told
him to buzz off.
And you know, honestly, it's been a great
conversation so far. And just to be frank,
like,
I just don't think that
the favors
that would be able to be returned to
me
to correspond to the
favors that they're asking
from me.
Yeah, it's not value for value.
I wouldn't get what I want out of it.
I mean, listen,
And, you know, I could be a horny guy if I want.
Hell, I named my company Zeus and we all know how horny that guy was in mythology.
But you got to pay up.
You got to pay up and my price isn't being hit.
So, you know, we'll see.
Maybe another offer comes on the table.
Maybe I make my way down to BPI, Washington, D.C., you know, but right now it's not doing it for me.
So TBD.
how would you feel if dennis porter gave you an offer similar offer
richard richard richard always asking the hard-hitting questions i mean
i can't lie to you i mean
we know the aura the pull that dennis has when he comes knocking
realistically
you know I
gotta be a little humble here
I don't think I will resist but we'll see
we'll see I've had a couple
convos with Dennis
you know not so sexual in nature
but
are you disappointed
by that
I mean
maybe but at the same time
what can I offer him I don't live
in DC I'm not
you know, amongst those ranks.
There other people that are probably more attractive to him right now Yeah that fair I don blame him I don blame him He a man on a mission You know he trying to get us to hyper
And, you know, he sees a clear path,
and I'm sort of the other opposite direction.
He's also gone very hard in on his support for running knots and filters.
And this is, you know, the Bitcoin policy in Stupel, first of all.
It began with a standing ovation for the Genius Act.
Because everybody at the policy institutes are very supportive of stable coins.
What the hell is the Genius Act?
It's a stable coin legislation.
It sounds like everyone's going to get free repairs on their Apple products, the Genius Act.
Yeah, there you go.
It's modernizing the U.S. dollar system.
Some politicians say it's bullish for Bitcoin.
some i think dennis believes is bullish for bitcoin yes yes big time big time um interesting
uh and it's one of the big topics of conversation this week about the policy institute uh summit
is uh this mempool policy so there's like a big you know the controversy between communists and
the nazis uh yeah and rob hamilton was tweeting about uh it being the mempool policy uh summit
and all the things we're going to talk about and grassland mechanic was immediately very furious
about this and he was he considered that this tweet an attack on bitcoin but it but it sparked
the conference it sparked the conversation and other than dennis porter there's nobody in
washington who is a knots runner it is all the people uh surrounding the white house and the
federal reserve are accordionists so you know what do you think about that development and do you
think this knots is you know it's up to 14 almost of the nodes do you think that this is legitimate
do you think this is like a balkanization of node clients um maybe and on one hand it's probably not
a bad thing is probably pretty good to get some diversity in clients i mean hell am i gonna run
nuts no what are you fucking nuts but the same dei for notes yeah i think i think we should ask
that question at the uh the beginning of every episode is which node implementation you run
so what people can determine whether they want to listen to the episode or not because you know
how people are these days sure thing well i'll do it right now i'm bitcoin core and i'm btcd
have you have you ever considered running bugle core i took a look at the code and uh you know i
was thinking it was looking pretty good i like the code basic based on obviously um but you know
i was thinking about making some commits myself before i actually ran it on any critical
infrastructure uh so we'll see hopefully i could push some stuff that's worthwhile um yeah if you
wanted to make some commits to it i would uh love that actually that'd be great great do you guys
have like a new logo for the launcher what's it look like when i install it i haven't seen that
part of the code base we will uh yeah we can connect on this uh on the details sometime but
i think like my question high level what would it take for bugle core to be the official node of
like aziz wallet so people would know like if they want to pick a lighting wallet that it's
the using a node that they trust and that they verify themselves and that they they can believe
in it's not just you know what could the self-custody if you don't get to run your own
node yeah yeah for sure i mean it's definitely something i've entertained as a thought like
when i think about bugle core and i think about you know what shared values that we have you know
as friends right here on this podcast i think like something that really resonates with me and i know
resonates with you guys for sure is that we all think vaping is gay um if there was some way that
i'm not sure the technology is there yet but if there was some way we can just like disconnect or
filter out peers that were vapors that would be a really appealing feature to me and you know if
we lose revenue from
Zeus users that
vape,
so be it. Hopefully we get some
ice smokers,
some cigarette smokers,
cigars, even people who do
Zins are all preferable to
vapors.
Vapors are like the
scourge of the earth.
I think this is something Hitler
got wrong severely
is you
he was going after the jews which is really stupid so it's like okay you're gonna go after
the people that the class of people that exclusively know how to make good movies
and to your taxes like you're gonna remove them from society it's pretty fucking retarded in my
opinion but he never went after the vapors and i think you know germany wouldn't be such a
pathetic country today,
if Hitler had realized the real,
the real group that he should have gone after and eliminated from polite society
was the vapors,
they are,
they're the worst.
That's an interesting theory.
I wouldn't go so far as saying that I want them eradicated or even put in
work camps or concentration camps or anything like that.
But I would very much like to not hear from them,
whether it be on the big network on lightning on twitter on nostril whatever just
they can they can put them in camps i guess is fine as long as my tax paying dollars are
going towards it like if you want to do it find it yourself uh do it start it now i don't know
whatever but uh you know it's also stupid like you're right richard the dumb thing that hillard
did it's like if you're gonna go you're gonna do a genocide you can't do it why would you do it
against the jews because you're going to have to go to the the hague and you're not going to be able
to have a jewish lawyer so like you're going to get you're going to get the death penalty that's a
student's you got to be smarter about this it's like the same thing with iran iran just asked to
weakly arbitrate these attacks from israel in the united states it's like you guys are fucked
who's going to represent you yeah exactly exactly it's it's the stupidest fucking idea in state
craft ever to go after the jews because you're you're essential essentially your ability to
function as a state is dependent on tax revenue and so if you take all the good accountants
and you remove them like how the fuck are you going to collect taxes at the end of the day
it's um i mean it's it's just it's a uh action that will only lead to dysfunction 100 but um
you know evan you're you're a guy that does well under pressure you think absolutely so
you've got this device this this lightning wallet that has cool graphics i'm a user of it
i think i'm a daily user i think i used it like three times today and every every transaction
routed because my wife has been uh doing better with the the node liquidity nice but you're a man
that does well under pressure because you're going around and you have you don't have like a big
marketing team like one of the biggest salesmen of your product is you and so you're having to go
and you're having to demo your product and you know you know there's that chance where you just
get stuck in the loop where the graphics are just spinning over and over and over again
and the transaction doesn't route which just kills the sales process right so you're under a lot of
pressure frequently how do you deal with that pressure how do i deal with that pressure uh
well first of all i made sure that the graphics still look fucking awesome when the transaction
fails so i think that was paramount making sure that you know even when you can't even connect
your node by a tor network to your node in your bunker thousands of miles away that you always
get a cool graphic of really sad Zeus.
So we covered
that and then we had
the ability to connect multiple wallets.
You can
have a node on your phone or a remote node.
You could switch between them. Now you could even have
a paper Bitcoin wallet.
I don't really care about your wallet.
I want to know how you deal with the pressure of
a potential fail.
How do you deal with it?
That is a great question.
I mean, really, if it's really crunch time, the big event, you know, rip a couple bogeys, you know, smoke a cigarette.
That'll help.
I really like drinking a lot of coffee and energy drinks, so that could get me a little anxious.
So if I'm really using that to power through my week, I got to counteract that, too.
Just that and Jesus.
What about lowering your time preference?
oh yeah i love that you know you go into your settings when you're about to make a payment
you increase the time out 30 seconds 60 seconds now let's go to a full two minutes four minutes
eight minutes transaction is going to go through one way or the other yeah so yeah literally like
protocol level will ring your time preference i was talking more um metaphorically but yeah
They both, same thing, same thing.
Yeah, I mean, physically, literally, you know, what is time?
It sounds like you realize it's all about the user experience because failed payments is a part of life.
But as long as you still have a cool, like, GIF or a cool animation, it's like if you're going to make me wait in the lobby, at least give me art.
Right, right.
And then while you're waiting, you know, you just got to have subject matter to talk about.
so you could you could put podcasts on like you could pipe a podcast when somebody's waiting for
their lightning transaction to go through or they're waiting for something else in their
lightning wallet to fucking work like it's supposed to you can watch a podcast in like
it's like the elevator music or you know the waiting when you're on on on hold on a call
you can have a bitcoin podcast playing in your house that would be amazing but rod how many more
enemies do you want me to make you know you called out all my fucking rivals at the start of the show
I was dictated.
And now I'm going to get in the ring with fountain.
Like,
what am I going to do next?
I'm going to go after YouTube or whatever.
Spotify,
all the podcast apps.
Well,
this is,
um,
an important part of the Bitcoin ecosystem is everybody with a competing
product arguing with each other.
Like,
uh,
yeah.
Yeah.
Samurai wasabi.
They,
they did a lot of arguing.
Uh,
Oh,
constantly dude.
Oh sure.
And we did an event with you guys to help support Samurai, but fully expecting them to come out and say,
Oh yeah, thanks, but you guys are a bunch of fags.
So you know but that what happens when you defend Liberty you defend scoundrels it okay yeah i mean do you anticipate and do you see the need for more arguing amongst the different
lightning devs and wallet users or makers or whatever you call it i mean i think one of the
things that we've really seen success with on the lightning network is zaps on nostr
and being able to zap a person for their post or their note on Nostran.
If we're not arguing about things on Nostran,
it's all just a kumbaya circle jerk.
There's only so many zaps that could get thrown around.
But if you have people slamming each other about their wallet implementation
or the privacy trade-offs, the UX, the graphics,
and you can throw zaps left and right about who's got the best alley-oops and dunks,
I think we're all going to really benefit.
so lightning could benefit from their own luke and mechanic somebody to stir up some drama and get
a huge like just timeline sucking fucking pointless debate about features about you know
lnurl versus bolter versus uh you know the different there's different lightning clients
right yeah cln you got lnd there's something something to get people to look at lightning
again and care and care about it you know like we've had some good routes you know we were
you know a few years back duking it out with mutiny and we threw some some punches back and
forth that was fun no doubt no doubt it was really good i still like those guys uh even though you
know we pulverize them maybe if i was on the other end i want to feel the same way but we still have
a couple of people who are feisty, fiery
out there. I think Blue Matt.
Joe Nakamoto.
Joe is very fiery.
He is opinionated. He wears his
heart on his sleeve, too.
I was just thinking in terms of Lightning developers.
Corral definitely
speaks his mind. He gets into fights.
We need more of that.
Samson.
Samson, if you want to call him a Lightning dev.
I guess
he's a pretty big
wallet.
Samson is the memer for his lightning company.
Like, that's what more of these lightning developers, like Blue Wallet should have, you know, an influencer or a memer, you know, kind of doing stuff, like promoting them on the timeline, pointing them at conferences, things like that.
Did they have, I feel like they were involved in some beef, but I feel like they're mostly heads down working on stuff.
Like, I think they've been trying to wire up Spark State Train into their wallet or whatever.
You know who's quiet is MoonWallet.
What do you think of MoonWallet?
Oh, MoonWallet.
MoonWallet, fucking awesome UX when it came out,
and then people realized where it hit the rails in those high-fee environments.
Oh, that really sucked.
The inside baseball on that is I think they're working on an ARC implementation.
So they're all in on ARC, and I think they're just on that.
Speaking of ARC, Ron and I were talking with another Layer 2,
person.
I guess he was just a shill.
He was shilling for the company that was
rolling out the Layer 2. I'm not going to say who it was.
It sounds similar to Ark.
There's like 20 Layer 2s
that sound similar to Ark.
There's Ark, there's Spark, there's Fart.
There's all these old 2s.
Yep.
I want to know your opinion.
I think this is a really important question.
We asked the guy this,
and he didn't really want to answer it.
I think it made him feel uncomfortable.
And it's just sometimes what you have to do as a journalist.
But what is the gayest L2 being proposed right now in the pipeline?
This is a really, really tough one.
I think we tried to duke it out on a smaller scale.
We were duking out.
Was eCash gayer than Liquid?
And obviously I thought Liquid was gayer.
I think it's Paul Storzik's drive chain is probably the gayest to me.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, 100%.
It's so gay.
And that's like a really...
It's really hard to get that title as the gayest of the L2s
because you're going up against David Marcus
and the guy who tried to do the Libra...
Stax.
Oh, and Stax, too.
They're like, fuck those guys.
They're fucking dickheads.
Stax is really gay.
Stax is a really gay one.
I still think Paul's
drive chain is the worst.
Yeah, it's like Paul's demeanor too
and his gay arguments.
It's really not good. And he's such a clever guy.
He could be doing so much better things
with his life than pushing forward
this gay thing that's never even going to get
activated. It's just really
gay.
Did you hang out with him
at our event? He was there.
We talked outside the
door. He was with, what's his
name from Bitfm,
Robin Linus. Robin's really nice.
That guy looks crazy. He looks like a fucking Cuban
porn star. I'm sure he gets ladies left and right.
But no, Paul was funny. He was
witty. He was nice. We threw a couple of
witty remarks back
and forth. I think he's a smart guy,
but yeah, I just think
BIP 300, 301 are
pretty silly.
His arguments against Lightning,
trying to
derive it and say, oh, we've got to activate
my thing is just silly and bad approach you're not going to get people on your side to activate
it when you need broad consensus right yeah i mean when i think of certain people um i just
kind of get like these weird urges to like do certain things to them in person you know like
when i think yeah i think sometimes it's like um what do they call it those uh those urges you
shouldn't act on well i think these are like they're like intuitive urges i think they're
good but like when i think of david bailey i want to twist his nipples you know what i mean
right i mean you should use that as like a guide and know like okay maybe you shouldn't team up or
attach your uh your sale to this person and whatever but probably wouldn't really want to
twist his nipples would you not in a mean way you know just in a friendly way just like you know
just like as like the first introduction before i shake his hand you might know it's me already but
just walk up twist his nipples but when i think when i think of paul stork when i think of paul
stork i think i think he just needs to be tickled a little bit you know what i mean
you just need to walk up to him oh i'm telling you he's like he was super cordial in person he
He was not, you know, the times I've met him.
I think I met him, you know, earlier back in Miami, too.
He's, like, he's a nice guy.
Just, like, when you get in the weeds on stuff, he's just, like, too prickly.
He's, like, he's in his corner.
He's only trying to push this.
He's, like, too defensive about it.
He lashes out at everything else.
I think Tickles, maybe a hug even could go a long way with someone like him.
Yeah, yeah.
I think just a lot of people in this space are just a little too grumpy.
um and there's no everybody there's no need to be grumpy when you introduce yourself for the first
time as a plaid or a pioneer whoever tomato dough you should just give him a titty twister just don't
even say hi just give him a titty twister and then like just like oh like he would shake his hand
uh and everybody if everybody did that he just he'd stop being grumpy i think rod you know the
thing with matt is matt always has like one button too many unbuttoned on his shirt you can get in
there dude you can do skin to skin oh i mean i'm not endorsing i i love matt i don't want anything
to happen to him physically like that but if you're so inclined and you're gentle enough the
opportunity is there that's all i'm saying he's oh yeah he's always got his his chest hair with
like it's shining because he's got tallow on it and he's always got that shell into his shirts
the tallow that's pretty good is there anybody that you get weird urges thinking about
like I was describing.
Other than Dennis?
Well, yeah, explain your urge with Dennis.
He's just an attractive man.
I mean, I feel like everyone's attracted to him.
You know, it's nothing to be ashamed about.
But what does acting on that urge look like for you?
You know, probably PubKey DC opens up
and then I start tweeting at him.
It's day one of me tweeting at Dennis Porter
to get a drink with me at pub key dc dennis i'll get you the whale you know what that comes with
the problem with dennis is anybody anybody who wants to hang out with dennis and like which we
about let's get a beer pub key that's the guy dennis that's the guy dennis knows he doesn't need
he's got he's got to go out there he's got to go out there and get the people who are playing hard
to get he's going to get the politicians he's always looking forward right right like you know
you could try to win him over with a ceramic frog filled with mezcal,
but it's only going to go so far.
So we'll see.
Maybe post-hyper-Bitcoinization it could happen.
Yeah, we're just talking dreams here.
We're just talking dreams, you know, if I were to shoot my shot.
Unfortunately, buying Dennis a drink doesn't pay for his private jet expenses.
He's got some important work to do,
so he's got to keep that puppy fueled at all times.
You know what I mean?
he's on a private jet now he's onto that grind no way who was it who was it that was talking
shit about him in vegas rod saying that he was flying economy and then he tweeted a picture of
his private jet in response that was that was teddy bitcoins fucking uh dennis porter
absolutely mocked teddy bitcoins on the timeline uh right to start the con that was the kickoff
to the Bitcoin conference.
He was making fun of Dennis
for flying coach
and Dennis posted a picture of his jet
and said, I fly private.
Wow.
So he actually posted about it.
That's news to me.
That's amazing.
But yo, he was Bitcoin.
He wasn't at the conference.
I feel like it's sort of.
Yeah, he wasn't.
It wasn't.
It sort of detracts from the conference
in a big way if he wasn't there.
Well, he got a lot of backlash
for winning MacCity Madness.
Like Brady Swenson
and Corey Klipstein
were really mad at him
for winning.
Yeah, like Stacey Herbert was really mad
at him for winning.
There was a lot of people that were really mad.
Platter, of course, really mad.
Oh, naturally.
And
yeah, I think he was kind of afraid
of somebody trying
to beat him up or something because they were so
mad that he won and they didn't.
jealousy is one hell of a hell of a drug you gotta you gotta stay humble
it's there's a lot of you know it's a real problem in podconf you know there's this kind
of uh competitive nature you know what i mean yeah absolutely i mean it's cutthroat out there
you know every everyone wants to be the guy who ushers in however bitcoin is
Everyone wants to be the guy that gets the president to just sign into law, just executive order.
Bitcoin's the money now.
Yeah.
The competition is, I think, it's getting more monetized and it's getting more exciting.
It's getting more fierce.
I think paper Bitcoin is going to be a huge combo.
Who's got the best paper Bitcoin mean stock?
Is it MetaPlanet? That's who I think.
That's my pick.
MicroStrategy, of course, is like,
you know, MicroStrategy
dominance of paper Bitcoin is going to be strong
forever, but who are like some of these other paper
Bitcoin companies with big
influencer investments?
They might not cut it.
I think,
what is it?
What are they
called? The hotel stock?
MetaPlanet.
with Dylan McClare.
Mediplan is probably a pretty good pick for the ones that are existing right now.
But you've got to think, with this genius thing,
there's going to be a lot of incumbent players from the legacy financial system
that come in and really give everyone else a run for their money.
Do you think Jamie Dimon is not going to come out swinging
and go for the crown right there?
He's like, oh, my buddy Larry Pink, he's got this ETF going on,
I'm going to come with the hammer and really do with the premier stablecoin.
That's who I got my money on.
And, you know, Jamie Dimon, also Greek.
Not that I claim him like that.
He's going to bust some balls.
He's right across the street from the Fed.
He's all tied in.
I'm not particularly worried about it right now.
I think the Bitcoiners have an edge, like a major edge, right?
But Jamie Dimon is dangerous only when he starts listening to 40 hours of Bitcoin podcasts a week.
Right, and it doesn't sound like he is.
He said Bitcoin is going to be shut off in 10 years today.
You'll know when things are getting real.
When JP Morgan starts hiring Bitcoin podcasters like all these treasury companies are.
Yep.
Who do you think would be a really good fit for them on their board?
if they did more crypto-focused shit.
Yeah, I think probably like
Michelle Weakley.
Michelle Weakley, yeah.
Morgan Weakley, Michelle Weakley,
maybe Aubrey Strobel,
Dennis Porter.
Yeah.
Who do you think?
Oh, it's a tough call.
I don't know who's brushed up
with that sort of side of the world,
but still deep into the Bitcoin stuff.
I don't know.
Are you a daily?
Nick Carter?
Those are great choices.
I feel like someone to not overlook
is my boy Alex Thorne.
He's at Galaxy Digital, you know?
Alex Thorne.
Alex Leishman.
Yeah, these are heavy hitters.
Like, you know, some of our New York crew,
you got to...
That's right.
The other secret weapon that big owners have right now is Tether on Lightning.
How excited are you for Tether on Lightning?
How is that going to, how do you build that into Zeus?
Because it's going to be popular.
Oh, yeah.
It's probably going to be more popular than Cashew.
Yeah, probably, probably.
But at the same time, I'm telling you, don't write off Jamie Dimon, dude.
I mean, yeah, Tether's the most popular company in the world, most successful crypto company in the world by far.
But Jamie Dimon gets in, you're going to be like, oh, fuck Tether.
I want that JPMorgan coin.
So maybe we should be thinking about how we get that JPMorgan coin into Zeus instead.
And I don't know, maybe Cashew could be a really good route for it instead of going on to taproot assets.
That's an idea.
You think that JPMorgan coin is going to be an attractive asset?
you think people are gonna want jp morgan conan you after all this after all the memes you think
that the jp morgan conan meme is gonna people are gonna be like hell yes that's what i want or do
you think they're gonna want the like crazy like super fit dude who's like a cypherpunk with a
weird accent they can't quite place and who lives in the the caribbean and fucking has like four
employees jp morgan's got like a bazillion employees he's got so much overhead
nah well dude well you just gotta pull a trump card and you know what i would do i would call
kali up you have that motherfucker in his orange balaclava on stage next to jamie diamond that's
your trump card dude fuck uh paulo i know his face i know his name i might as well know his ssn
i don't know who the fuck kali is honestly um so yeah you could trump that jv morgan needs an
influencer for him who's a nin.
Yeah,
that would be good. That would be good.
Maybe they could get Shams from
PubKey. You know Shams?
It says Shams-tastic a lot.
There could be synergy there. They're both New York.
Shams has worked in
the financial world a little bit.
You get that guy that works
at Foundry.
I forgot what his
name is. He's the guy that
speaks with the mask and
wears gloves because he doesn't want them
getting his fingerprints.
Yeah, someone of that caliber.
Someone who does not have their real face
as their profile picture.
I don't know. Maybe
you start small. Maybe you don't
get a super techie
cypherpunk who's coding
it up. Maybe you just focus it on comms.
Maybe you get a credentialed
journalist.
Maybe you get a
Rod Palmer or Dick Greaser that just do comms
for the crypto shit at JP Morgan.
But at the same time, I know
you guys would demand a lot.
I don't think they even
produce that many cigarettes in a year to
pay you guys off traditionally.
I don't think JP Morgan could
ever meet my demands
of what I would require to work for them.
On day one, I'd walk in
with a chainsaw
and HR
would be fucking gone.
HR would be gone.
And that's tough to do with so many employees to just get rid of HR.
Like that's almost impossible.
Why?
You know, corporate culture, you know, they're publicly traded too.
Like get rid of HR.
Is he going to really roll the dice and say, hey, our Bitcoin earnings are going to out?
HR is like the worst thing ever.
It is the worst thing ever because these women, mostly white women, have gone in and created a position for themselves that's completely worthless.
so they they sell themselves to the employer as being protective of their business right
they're like we need to protect you and then then they they kind of cackle behind the scenes
talking about how they can implement all these policies that are really bad for the employer
and super gay they're like how can we make this work environment as gay as possible
and then they go to the employee and sell themselves to the employee like hey we're here
for you we'll listen to your feelings you know whatever whatever and they're just snitching on
their employees to their uh the other people in the company the the people running it essentially
and they're like pretending like they actually want to give these people fucking raises so these
people are like oh i need to get so that you don't fucking need them in both sides of the
company but the the employee the uh the labor and the the capital the executives have been sold on
this worthless position and they just make everything gayer and less productive so i would
you don't think you could fix hr from the inside you don't think you could have like hr having
meetings about like oh elon musk has tried with an army full of broccoli haircut elon musk just
took on hr with a broccoli haircut army of ai zoomers and they couldn't take down hr we thought
after trump got elected we all thought that hr was toast they were gonna be like you said going
through with the uh shane solid elon with the fucking blame thrower throwing the hr out and
And just in the deep state is HR.
Like they listen to everything.
They tell you that you need, they're protecting you.
They tell you that they're doing this for your own good,
that they're doing it for the best of the country.
And then they use your data and your feelings
and your information against you.
And they snitch, they're spooks.
HR, CIA, they're all spooks.
And Elon Musk took a chainsaw to it and he got rejected.
so that is that is they're stronger than we thought it's a bigger force than we thought
you have to abolish it there there's no middle ground on this one it's either you're fully
cucked you have hr or you don't and like look at the bitcoin ecosystem look look at hrf
they try to act as the the hr for the dissidents around the world
they're like hey we'll give you money but you have to give us kyc
true yeah hr loves getting everybody's kyc they get they get everybody's kyc
that's like one of their favorite jobs but anyways um yeah the rest of your demands what
else would you demand dick uh there there needs to also be um somebody like super hot
acting as kind of like one of the the frontline influencers so i would i would nominate kaylee
welch for that oh total babe good choice you would need to smoke be able to smoke inside the offices
oh yeah that doesn't even have to be said yeah of course dude fuck um there there has to be a whole
department created for maintaining all the typewriters that will be used so you get rid
of the hr i guess you could repurpose them into cleaning typewriters and maintenance in them
you can retrain them on useful skills um what else would we fire the vapors or try to rehabilitate
them that's a good point yes no i mean i don't know i i know it sounds really callous to say this
but i i came to this conclusion yeah i came to this conclusion after being around you ever hang
around shinobi and get a vape cloud in your face oh god no i try to hang with him uh when he can't
be smoking we can't be hitting the vape you know under professional pretenses uh yeah sheesh i can't
even imagine could you imagine the smell have you been hit with one of those clothes what flavors
does he even like that guy i don know but i don remember the flavors but it was gross god so yeah like rod said send shinobi and all the vapors that work at J Morgan down to El Salvador
I guess that's their rehabilitation.
We just don't hear from them again.
And they do jumping jacks
in that giant prison.
I like that.
Plus, that fuels the circular economy.
You know, El Salvador and Bitcoin and all.
Yeah.
Trump's got all the shit wrong
about deporting all these Mexicans
he's got to go and deport the vapors
yeah 100%
100%
well we're roughly an hour in
so have you ever listened to one of our
interview shows before
I listened
to the
ones with or the most
latest one with fundamentals
I listened
to the latest one
with
what's the guy? The guy, the big
guy, the tan guy's got
the beard. He looks homeless most of the time.
Oh, John Seth. Yeah, I listened to that
one. John Seth, yeah. Yeah, that
was a great one. Oh, man. He's
such a sharp guy.
Yeah.
Love John Seth. He's great.
And then, yeah,
I think those are the only two interview ones I've listened to
so far.
Oh, yeah.
well we we kind of have a ritual before we go into the ritual rod you got you got anything else
you want to talk chat about no no i just wanted to uh to wrap up on like the paper big way no how
do you think we talked about the gayest l2 but like what oh you see yeah that dominant that
that competition it was way too cringe you know i really like tatum but you know i could only do
so much cringe listening.
He's a character.
He's one of the kind. No one makes me feel
more cringe than Tatum.
He's looking for a girlfriend, man.
I know Tatum Phyms is a girlfriend.
He's an eligible bachelor.
He's tall.
So, you know,
those were two most important qualities.
Forklift certified.
That's huge, dude.
Huge.
So what was cringe about it?
No, just Tatum. Just Tatum's personality.
I'm like, his response is, he's just too much.
He did like a comedy skit at the pub key party in Vegas.
And oh my God, dude.
I mean, it was like such an oscillation between me like dying hysterically and just being like so cringe.
It's like cringe core.
You know, it's like some of the stuff is just like gives you the heebie-jeebies.
It's like some of those like Sam Hyde skits sometimes.
It just like teeters too much.
It makes you uncomfortable.
But, no, I'm looking forward to more Tatum content.
I just don't think I could do a full hour.
So you think, like, how would you rank as comedy?
Was it pretty good?
Oh, it was great.
It was self-deprecating, a lot of good jokes.
But, yeah, yeah, just we've got to ease up a little bit on the cringe.
I mean, that's the whole thing.
But, like, you know, one-tenth less would go a long way.
so let's see yeah i was just shout out to him for getting out of his comfort zone and doing like a
set like that you know different format it takes a lot of balls so you know tip my hat off to him
for that yeah the reason why he came on the show was uh i i invited him i reached out to him i i
saw a friend in need you know like one of my one of my comrades in in this journey and um he uh
I told him that I know he wanted a girlfriend and we could essentially
advertise him to all the women in Bitcoin.
Nice.
And,
uh,
so that's,
that was like the goal of the last episode.
I think we did a good job of laying it out there,
why people should like him,
why they should go on dates with him.
Maybe have you caught up with him?
Has he gotten any prospects out of it?
Has anyone zapped him?
Um,
I did bump into him in Vegas,
actually.
Uh,
he was,
i think he just needs some like in-person coaching because crypto mags was like all over him and
she she wanted to go on his podcast and like one of the things you have to understand
as a podcaster is like if a hot woman who's like smart and knows the thing about bitcoin like
crypto mags wants to come on your podcast you need to like drop everything and make it happen
you know what i mean yeah 100 any cross media anything you know like come on let me let me
write an article about you blah blah blah you know just tatum's prime avenue to get in there
tatum's problem with women is the same problem he had with podcasting he he just had it too easy
when he first started podcast he had jack doors he had all the most biggest influencers wanting
on his podcast it was there was no challenge to him and the same with all these women all these
women are no challenge to him you can have them all on his podcast and but he just done he's he
just doesn't have the work ethic to like sit down and crank out the episodes go on dates meet girls
he's uh he's just add uh but he's having a good time so he's just gotta focus his attention
yeah i feel like one of those acts you know like these acts that come out their first album is just
so fire it's like oh shit just dropped appetite for destruction how is he gonna follow that up
it's like that was his whole folly probably should have saved dorsey for like
yeah he should have he should have recorded a few episodes and built up to it yeah there's still
there's still a lot of cool people that i don't think he's peaked yet there's a lot of cool people
that you could have and i think herco mags is one of those people if i don't know i would probably
climb a mountain and cross a river to have crypto mags on this podcast yeah she's great
she's a part of vibes capital so anyway yeah crypto mags is hot definitely 100 the point wasn't to
talk about crypto mags the point was to say uh i think tatum still needs some help i don't i don't
think the advertise uh you know because like one of the things is like you can advertise for a
product but if you can't manage a sales funnel and convert right it's pretty useless right that's
true funnels are important for funnels are everything all right that isn't yeah business
cat calls on gravity wells all right so you sort of listen so you answered one of the questions of
the ritual so you you answered uh oh this was part of it i thought this was a detour yeah i
listen to a couple of shows guys are good no wait well we always ask if you listen to the last
episode and uh so it sounds like you listen to like a little bit of it so you have some other
context and we just kind of like covered the synopsis of uh right i probably got 20 30 minutes
in you know i was talking about a sailor he's like i'm not sure i want to yeah i listened to
part of it i was yeah i mean yeah i'd like to see crypto mags on this podcast soon because she went
to africa to run bid axes and uh that's like that's like the equivalent of like
a church group going to like puerto rico to build houses you know what i mean
yeah so that's a big moment for bitcoin for her and econo alchemist and a few of those other guys
to to essentially go on a missionary trip to africa with some bid axes so she's deserving of
But the second question, and arguably the most important question, Evan, is are you Jewish?
Am I Jewish?
No, unfortunately.
I am Greek, Greek Orthodox.
But part of me wishes I was Jewish, or at least part.
you know so i've noticed that amongst lightning developers
people building these wallets there's a severe underrepresentation of jews and i'm curious
do you think that's one a problem and two why there hasn't been any decent accounting services
for managing all of your transactions.
Or legal representation.
Doing accounting in L&D is actually nuts.
But, you know, they do have some Jewish folks,
some fine Jewish folks at Lightning Labs.
It's just they're not developers.
They're not the ones coding this up.
So, yeah, if they did have some more Jewish programmers,
that certainly would have been nipped in the bud.
um but no they're they're great jewish uh lightning devs i think right uh roy sheffield he's from
israel right um who else i'm ben kaufman ben kaufman's working on something now yeah ben
kaufman's working at uh at keeper which is like a multi-sig mobile wallet yeah ben kaufman is great
I love Ben.
He's one of my favorite Jews.
Oh, yeah.
He's up there.
He's up there in the ranks for me.
You know, he's up there with, well, maybe not quite as much as fundamentals, but close.
Damn close.
I wish we had a list of all the Jewish developers on Lightning.
I don't know.
You know, it's kind of a bad idea to mix Jews and lists.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
That's a meme.
The Jews don't like to be on lists.
That's for sure.
Definitely don't inscribe that anywhere.
Oh yeah, for sure.
That's the thing.
That is the answer right there.
How can you promote lightning?
Jewish lightning.
Everybody loves Jewish lightning.
It's already a meme.
You just subscribe it to a new product.
Boom.
Takes off.
the reason why the jews don't like kyc in general is because they know the the risk of being on list
yeah that's for sure um okay well yeah so then we make you read all the boosts with us
from the previous week oh shit i fucked up guys i was gonna send a boost uh damn it i'll send one
next week that'll be funny it would be funny if i had to read my own boost but okay let's go through
Most people don't even listen, so man, go ahead.
Late stage hodl. Do you know late stage hodl, Evan?
No, it sounds familiar. There's a lot of pioneers to keep track of.
Are you going to be going to Lake Satoshi by chance in August?
I'm trying to sell my wife on it.
But our local group here told me about it, like Shads and Fundamentals, they told me about it.
It sounds like a great time.
If I could also work on a trip to Detroit where we got another merchant that we really excited about can be fantastic But as of now I don think it happening I just got too much travel going on unfortunately
But maybe next year at the very least, it would be great.
Late-stage hodl will be there.
Just like a fire question before we get derailed, just like short answer on this one.
Sure.
How much Bitcoin do you think you need to be able to remodel your kitchen for your wife in 15 years?
In 15 years?
For, like, a good remodeling job?
Like 100 sats?
That might be a little low.
Let's say 200.
200 sats.
All right, there you go, folks.
You don't need to be saving that fucking hard.
These guys, like, Sailor,
If you could afford to remodel the kitchen for your wife in 15 years with 200 cents.
Save some for the rest of us.
Like, shit, guys.
Like, fucking zap the guys here.
They're doing a great job with the pot.
Like, let's get some more zap reads.
You know, fucking value for value over here, guys.
If that's the fucking case, then you know how valuable the fold wheel is?
Getting like five sats a day.
Oh, fuck.
that's you just need driveway you need fucking like 40 days of spinning the fold wheel to be able to
afford to get your wife a brand new kitchen in 15 years and imagine if it was really that good
i'm saying realistically you know like 100 100 000 sats you'll have a banging kitchen
like come on this is i don't want to derail this too much but last one how how long and how much to
afford one of those big ass stone walls that stony bits and builds and always most pictures of
uh built by stony or just similar yeah built by stony like you come out to your come out to your
house and build it in fucking 15 years that guy you're gonna have to move mountains to get him to
move stones for you so probably a fucking pot load dude but he'd do a great job it looks like
he does some fantastic work hell yeah we really dragged out that fire question sorry but we hit
on some good points it's okay that was fine it's all very important stuff we're discussing here
folks um yeah yeah late stage hodl 10 000 sats i guess i forgot to boost last episode oops wish i
had known Tatum would be on this one.
I sent him a plug minor
sticker, or John did,
and he put it on an S9
he had. Could see it in a few
interviews. Yeah.
That's sweet.
Always feels good when someone
is using something you gave to them or
sent them.
That is cool.
That is really cool. I like the guys that are
in Governable Misfits a lot,
and
it was fun that Tatum was
connected to them in some way.
The bitaxers
killed the pleb
miner meme.
That's okay.
It was enough.
It's probably best to move on.
We're pioneers now.
Solo Satoshi is
the bitaxe guys with the plebs.
We're pioneers now.
Right, guys. We gotta be
doing real mining. Don't expect you
to do the kitchen renovations at 200 sats.
Let's set our sights a little higher.
You guys can do it.
But still, at the same time,
they'll fucking zap the show, you dicks.
Who is the lightning wallet of the plebs?
Because I would argue Zeus
is definitely one of the ones the pioneers use.
Oh, 100% of the pioneers.
Well, plebs is probably wallet of Satoshi,
or at least it was.
And now, you know,
the plebs can barely make their heads from their asses.
Strike.
Yeah, like Strike, just KYC, do Cash App maybe.
Whatever's easiest.
They don't give a fuck about the KYC, a lot of those guys.
So you think when a pleb is going and trying to decentralize the network and buy a bidaxe of Bitcoin from Sol Satoshi, they just use Strike or Cash App?
No, they'll first log into the Stripe account and they're like, oh yeah, Stripe supports crypto.
and then it's only the Ethereum-based stablecoin shitcoins.
They're like, oh, why is the checkout not working?
But yeah, then they'll eventually land on a cash app or a strike
or something similar like that.
It's wonderful the lengths people are going for decentralization these days.
Yeah, well, it could be worse.
This is a whole topic I wanted to get into,
but i don't think i think we should go through the booths uh before we get too derailed but
i was wondering if you ever want just like quick yes or no i was wondering if you were ever going
to use the decentralization uh marketing meme that all these guys use uh like the bid axers
use this ocean uses this you have to use their product to decentralize something
um have you ever considered that as a marketing uh effort for decentralizing the network the
lightning network oh like you gotta reuse zeus wallow to decentralize the lightning network like
that meme yeah yeah yeah so you you you raise your fist up and you shake it in the air and then you
get invited on all these stages at conferences so you know nifty i'll invite you to be tcu plus plus
to argue with justifer um oh yeah that's already happening i'm gonna be in berlin baby that'll be
fun that's a light new one i mean it gets you on all the podcasts you'll you'll go on natalie's
podcast you'll go on marty's podcast in right you know i do need to lean into that sort of
meme ability over the bear adventure i thought you were gonna ask me if i was doing like zap
advertising i'm like oh shit yeah we should do that oh that is that is a very cool thing that uh
i think we should collaborate on one there's so much text that you could put in one of those
messages why don't we split the cost why don't we say yo dude download zeus and listen to bugle
weekly like that could be a great advertising send the whole network one set what's the uh what's the
limit, data limit
on a Zapp advertisement?
You could get a decent amount of text
in there. I'm not sure we could do two URLs,
but we don't need
our link in there. Just do 40 hours
per week? Yeah, perfect.
Fucking download Zeus,
run lightning, let's do 40 hours per week.
Yeah, I'll do it.
I'll put some
stats towards Lynn Alden's hot
for sure. Nice, man.
We'll work that out after this show.
Alright, yeah, yeah. Let's not get into
the technicals. Alright, should I do this
next one? Open mic?
If you want to read them, you can, for sure.
Let's do it. Open mic.
He zaps
7,777 sats.
Bugle mile
high club. Squeezing in my
40 hours per week en route
to satirize the system. And then
I think he put a link to the
event. Yep.
Thank you, Open Mike.
Yeah, thank you.
We haven't done this in a while, yeah.
So this is still pre-conference.
But yeah, we got to see Mike at the show.
Nice.
I hope to be hanging out with him quite a bit in the future.
I'm looking forward to it.
Unfortunately, we had events at the same time.
He's running the Noster event.
and uh that was a bummer that it conflicted like that because i i would have liked to have been at
that but our event got like pushed back too i was gonna run over there at the end but our event went
way late have you met open mic evan i feel like i must have yeah he's a cool dude he uh
he's a music executive and he is uh the guy behind tunster which is
the fork of zapped out stream where musicians yeah yeah yeah yeah i think i think i met him
a while back uh did i see him at the show i don't think so but at the same time at the show i was
like all over the place i was a fucking mess um but yeah tunster is super cool it's rad we we need
more music products in the space.
We can't just let Wave Lake do
everything. There's so much more to do.
He's a cool dude, yeah. I like
Toonstir a lot. Big fan.
Timesloth
5000Sats says
the overtime for 40 HPW
of cerebral
Adam Back
podcast while going to sleep
while being listened to in sleep
is how real Bitcoin
learning must occur. I apologize. I'm butchering
the reading of that.
I was trying to understand what the hell he was talking about.
In your sleep, maybe I'll give you
0.5x. I don't know.
Do you ever
listen to Adam Back Podcast to fall asleep?
I mean,
they're the best, dude.
That and the Bitcoin Review Podcast,
what else do you need?
Exactly.
Yeah, that's 5,000 stats.
Thank you, Time Sloth.
We got StackGero, 5,000 sats.
The Overtime...
Oh, it's a duplicate.
The next one is 2,121 sats from Odie, 40 hours per week.
First time I've heard of this Tatum guy.
He needs to work more with this Gambian audience.
Maybe prioritize Oslo Freedom Forum before Vegas,
like BTC Sessions did.
Ooh.
Looks like Tatum could be going to Oslo next year.
If he wants to build his Ski-Indian audience,
there's probably a lot of hot chicks in Ski-Indianavia
who would like a big Bitcoin liner like Tatum
to keep them warm in the wintertime.
Yeah, that sounds like a grand slam.
A lot of blonde chicks.
All right, I'm going to do this next one.
Odie, 40 HPW sends 2000.
That's a repeat.
Read this one.
oh no sorry yeah my bad
Bitcoin account
Bitcoin
ACCT account
I don't know he sends
2,112 sats
he says Mr. Turnip's romantic
success could make him Rocky
Balboa, Luke Skywalker
or Gandhi
for the orange cells
yeah I agree that would be massive
the orange cells need a win huge yeah they do and he can do it tatum i actually truly do believe in him so that would be amazing we need an orange shell season like a season for
the orange cells to just get in win after win somebody's gonna ask albert strobel to get a
a beer with her at bob key she's gonna say yes like it's it's just gonna happen you know they're
gonna get on podcasts and we're gonna see we're gonna see a renaissance for the orange cells i
don't know if it's soon i hope it is i hope it is for their sake but it feels it feels like it could
come the vibes are shifting it's okay just lower your time preference you'll be okay exactly
next one is uh 500 sats from turkey just to link thank you turkey and then i'll just do the next
one because it's also a bar a farm animal bob the cow uh tatum won't stay single for long if btc
keeps pumping.
Bob the cow, this cow,
even the cows know
that when BT pumps,
orange sales get more attractive.
Maybe that's what brings orange sales season
at a bull market.
Hell yeah.
I got this next one because I like the handle
here. BTC on board,
hashtag LNHands or
hashtag CTV.
Sends 300 sats. He sends three emojis.
Two thumbs up and a lightning bolt.
Love it, BTC on board.
Thank you.
What's your rundown?
What's out?
Ellen Hance, good or bad?
Is it gay?
Is it good?
Ellen Hance is great.
It's not as earth-shattering as some people say,
but it would be a great enhancement.
I'm more excited about CTV by itself,
all the stuff that opens up.
Let's fucking activate it.
We could get into that in another show.
Rob Hamilton would probably twist your nipples hearing that.
What do you mean?
He's fucking signed the letter that said he's in favor of activating it.
No, but he wants CTV and something else.
CTV and Chexig from Stack, yeah.
We want them together.
I feel like he's saying CTV by itself is kind of like taking your nails
and going across the chalkboard for him.
Oh, dude, look who's up.
And he's dropping multiple in a row over here.
Oh, you know this guy?
uh fucking pies of course dude uh he's like probably the pioneer i want to meet the most
from you know from the author look how many he did one two three four you gotta let me read
no you can read them all read them all and do and read them however you think pies are you
or whatever you do it okay pies hundred sets emoji this it's the bird being flipped three
mushrooms three bicep
pumps fuck yeah
pies love that next
up another one from pies 100 Tatum
dropped the vest and just hired me
and my homies as security
fantastic advice
at least try
it Tatum like I know it's hard
to get pies out unless it's the
weekend he doesn't come out on weekdays
he's got
if you wrap up pies and his
goons on a Saturday though
watch out yeah
you're gonna be knocked into next thursday buddy let me tell you gonna be missing out on your 40
hpw while you're fucking in a coma all right next up pi is another hundred i think i got the street
credit to come back to 40 hours a week but without the hashtag anymore lol i'm too og for that shit
pi's the og of 40 hpw haha and he's got that crazy emoji with the tongue sticking out amazing
pies again hundred sats fuck anyone who isn't down with the bugle boys if i ever meet someone
in person who blocks the beautiful they might get the five dollar wrench attack
rolling laughing emoji real talk though crazy eyes emoji real talk though pies i love it
another hundred sats from pies fuck vegas another hundred sats from pies i'm also retarded i feel
a lot better about my retardation
after hearing about Tatum's retardation.
Rolling laugh
and emoji. True.
True. That's the great thing about
Tatum.
He's honest.
You know, he's
he will make you feel a little bit better about yourself
with his
quandaries and positions, but
still love him. Still love him.
But you'll still get a better
fucking podcast guest list than you, so
hate him or love him
yeah that's for sure
that's for sure although Pies
god damn it please zap this podcast
say some funny shit this is great
and then Pies with another hundred
he's got the
the beers being cheered
emoji that's a good one
that's a good one I should have cracked a beer
for this pod maybe next one
is that the end of them
that's the end of Pies
Pies salute you bro hopefully I can meet you
one day in person
fantastic pioneer so how how the fuck do i become the node routing these transactions for pies
so i can get all these routing fees from all these transactions oh you gotta get in the middle
you gotta figure out okay where are you guys hosting your node and then you gotta figure
out where fucking pies wallet is and you gotta become the middle man lower your fees
so you're the most competitive and then bam so you're not let jb morgan get pies this fucking
business that's for sure oh realistically realistically what i would have to do is like
get a channel open with zebedee which would probably be ginormous probably have to raise
money on geyser to open a channel with zebedee and then open a channel with pies i feel like
the channel size i could open with pies could be like 10 000 sats you know what i mean it doesn't
have to be like a very big channel with all these small transactions i just have to balance it
frequently.
Yeah.
Just to keep them rolling.
Oh,
no,
there's one more.
There's one last.
Noster gang,
a hundred cents,
a kissy and face emoji.
Oh,
maybe Tatum's got an admirer.
Maybe that's what that means.
There we go.
That's how it starts.
We met him.
We met in the zap comments on his podcast with the bugle.
Tatum said that he would love to find a girlfriend on Noster.
I think there's probably some pretty hot chicks on Noster.
Tatum, it'd be great like how I met your mother's story.
Met on Noster.
So, a question for you, Evan.
are you at the age
where you think
it's acceptable to be
referred to as Mr.
yet have you hit that milestone
in your life where you're Mr.
Kalupas
yeah it's like just about there
where I'm like okay
you know I'm not gonna go and correct like the
fucking 16 year old
zit covered cashier
and be like no
call me bro
you know like i can't do that call me cypher pump call me a call me a pioneer dude do i look like a
sarah to you um yeah i don't know it's i sort of just got accepted i'm getting like the the grays
in my hair like a lot the last year or two um i'm a dad now too like i'm basically there like i can't
fight against it you know i'll try to still i'm not gonna like change my my whole style like i'll
still like be like a little kid and wear like soccer jerseys and stuff like that like stuff i
still like i won't like man maybe i'll ease out of it but it's not like a oh okay now i'm a grown
man sort of thing right now you know have you ever met rob warren rob warren is that the politician
no who's rob born he used to work for riot he does like a lot of like think boy stuff on twitter
bikes and bitcoin or whatever yeah used to work for upstream data mining guy it was a good ponytail
yeah i don't know too many thinky boy ponytail guys but yeah what about him you should meet him
someday because i think he could be a good mentor for you and like the the dad clothing attire
you see you see rob warren you see you see him with his ponytail up he's got
like a he's going to nashville he's got an old off-colored uh like polo shirt he's got it tucked
into his like they're not like fully bleached but like somewhat bleached dad jeans they're a
little bit baggier and he's got his new balances on his white new balances you like that guy will
he rock a fanny pack i think yeah he would totally rock a fan i think he does
that's pretty good i got one that's like loaded with bitcoin pins over there
i don't know where it is but yeah i usually have some good goodies in there
yeah i think that's uh it's an important uh aspect of men i think it's important for us to
to be to demand to be called mister as grown men uh the broccoli haircuts need to be put in their
fucking place they need to know listen if they're like rude to me and be like bro like you know the
the other way around if you're not being professional and you're not getting shit done
then yeah like sometimes you'll have to call out a little shit especially if they're
broccoli hair cut it up and along on top with a fade
i i i would narrow it down further richard i would node runners deserve to be called mister
but do they have to be economic node runners
yeah i mean do you got deserve to be called mister if you just spin up a fucking node to
pump a pie chart of if your wife knows the economic note of the household yeah like seriously who's
wearing the pants who's who's validating the transactions in the house or if your uncle jim
in off of somebody else's uh bitcoin if your uncle jim in off of matt odell's bitcoin node
do you deserve to be called mister right and that's the sort of kyc information hr should be
collecting so that they know you know people's titles how to address them like but that's not
what they're interested in that's right all right so evan wrap it up you got you got anything else
you want to talk about anything that's on your heart that you've never shared before on a previous
Bitcoin podcast?
Wow, that's a great question.
You know, I feel like, I mean, I've told Rod this one, but if someone wants...
wants a good laugh and they want to see me as an extra in a comedy skit go look up stavros halkias
bad life decisions with evan williams and i was an extra for this skit in this greek restaurant
in astoria and it is really funny the skit i'm just really glad to be like in the background and
the final shot. I think
my beard is much thinner
and my hair is much shorter.
But yeah,
I have some really funny
reaction shot at the end of that.
Go check it out. I never shared it
because when I did, I was working at some
corporate gig doing cyber
security. But yeah, I figured
Bugle is a great place to share it.
Go check it out. I've only told a few people about it.
Stavros Halkis, hilarious
comedian. I from Tires,
the general manager dave who gets you know i don't want to spoil it but from tires i mean
he's coming up yeah yeah he's great he's gonna be uh all over the place soon uh yeah they got big
on this punk podcast called come town it's all about being gay with your dad hilarious content
marketed when laws come down you talk to me all the time yeah yeah so yeah that that's a good
I definitely haven't shared that on any Bitcoin podcast.
So there you go.
But yeah, wrapping up, download Zeus, run your own node, validate your own transactions.
Don't just spin up nodes for them to fucking fill up a number on a pie chart.
Take control of your own keys.
Aim to use Lightning and Bitcoin self-custodially and fucking build out a circular economy on board merchants.
And start locally.
start with your local meetup and start onboarding local merchants and try to get it going there.
That's where you have the most immediate impact.
I think that's about it, boys.
That sounds like how you would end every other Bitcoin podcast.
How would you handle, yeah, how would you tell people to handle the pressure of trying to onboard merchants
by showing them a Bitcoin wallet and trying to use the Senate transaction?
So if they're trying to onboard immersion, they should use, what should they use?
The wallet that can handle the pressure Zeus wallet Zeus wallet If you trying to orange spill somebody you need the wallet that can handle the pressure because the developer behind it can handle the pressure
The wallet?
The wallet.
I mean, listen, that's the whole goal of the wallet.
We want to make you feel like a god.
We want to make the merchants look like gods.
You've got to have that godlike handling of the pressure.
And you need that distraction in case things go wrong with those beautiful, beautiful graphics.
and we got you covered.
The only wallet that got you covered in that regard,
Zeus Wallet.
The CEO of the company is in the same wallet
to orange pill people as you.
Exactly.
Value for value.
Exactly, exactly.
And yeah, we're just a small team
just trying to make it work one day at a time
and we're just going to keep on keeping on.
Fuck KYC, fuck paper Bitcoin unless it's cashew
which is also KYC.
And yeah, and fuck HR.
Zeus doesn't have an HR department,
so that's just working in our favor too.
That's such a good selling point.
I'm looking at the wallet.
Seriously.
Do you have an employee handbook?
No, no.
I fucking tell my employees as I go,
like, dude, don't do that.
Or, oh yeah, that's good.
Just really rare so far
having issues with employees like that.
hopefully i could exit before the time zeus needs hr hopefully it never really does but
we'll see what happens one day at a time how many how many rounds of funding from uh 1031 do you need
in order to be able where you're like expected to have an hr department
shit i really don't know i really don't know and i don't know the way things are going like
hopefully we don't need to do funding i mean it's sort of working right now
i mean obviously it's tough because we're trying to grow too
but dude i mean yeah after you do two rounds once you get to series a i guess you gotta
fucking do it and we we have we haven't even done our seed around we just did a little uh
incubator around with our boys at wolf so yeah you're nowhere close to becoming uh a registry
paper Bitcoin company.
No no Although I am trying to get Walker from the Titcoin podcast to get me on his board if he does do his own paper Bitcoin company I mean if not the board I be the IT guy I run the lightning node which won be running knots unfortunately
So don't kill me.
Well, very cool, Evan. Really thank you for coming on the show. I thought this was a great conversation.
I think people are going to walk away from this feeling like they've learned a lot.
And it was a good use of everybody's, you know, part of their 40 hours this week.
So I really appreciate it.
Cheers, boys.
Fantastic, as always.
I'm going to run it back one more time.
I'm going to listen to it probably at 1x speed because I'm not a degenerate.
And, you know, it'll count double towards my hours.
It's going to be great.
Maybe I'll even zap you guys.
Give you a little boost.
That'd be cool.
Thank you again.
And we'll catch everybody on the next episode of Behind the Podcast.
I met you on the NASDAQ in late July.
Your wallet said you held a little blue sky.
You said it's Bitcoin, baby, pure and true
But your sats were sitting in a truss or two
You whispered dreams of sequit romance
But your private keys were held at Coinbase by chance
And I believed each line, your sweet, sweet fate
Till I saw your love was just a rap mistake
Don't re-hide, father, cake my heart
Don't pledge it twice, then break it apart
One claim, one coin, that's how love should start
But you loan it out and triplify how it's missing from the chart
So please don't rehide, Father, keep my heart.
You said it's back one to one, no stress.
But your ledger looks like Celsius In a dress there 10 of me in line for that same set And they all in love with an NFT or futures contract
I gave you cold storage, gave you my trust.
You gave me IOUs and called it lust.
Your love's like Tether's stable till it ain't.
Now my emotions trade with leverage I just can't sustain.
Don't re-hypocate my heart
Don't use it as collateral
For a fresh new start
It's not a yield farm, it's a work of art
But you've wrapped it, swapped it, stayed the parts
Then fractioned it like postmodern charts
Please don't re-hypothicate my heart
And when the big crash comes, when margin calls
When BlockFi burns and Mt. Gox folds
Will you remember that one true claim
Or sell me short again in someone else's name
Don't re-hypothicate my heart
I'm not a token, you can just restart
I need the real thing, not paper spark
So if you're holding me, then hold me tight
Don't let me out overnight
No, please don't re-hypublicate my heart
Thank you.