Music industry is being destroyed by fiat Taylor Swift tickets are outperforming the price of Bitcoin
Ticketmaster and Live Nation are crushing the spirit of artists who are forced to bend over to record labels
who don't take you seriously unless you go to Diddy parties
Radio music is devolving into toxic sludge indistinguishable from AI sloth
The algorithms are destroying discoverability and penalizing anything that's valuable.
Is the world of music hopeless?
One man thinks it's not.
While others are throwing up their hands and submitting to a system that preys on children,
promotes predators, and champions mediocrity, there's a grassroots movement building in the shadows.
Today, joining us is the most important man in the value-for-value music economy,
the visionary behind the live streaming platform Toonster, the inventor of the Bugle Mile High Club.
Open mic, how are you doing today?
Hey, that's quite the intro. Thanks for having me. I'm doing well.
It's good to have you.
It's great to be here. It's great to be on the Bugle. Long time listener, first time caller.
Yeah. So kind of fun story. So we're recording in Matt O'Dell's studio. We took it over. We're in Nashville.
that's right you've got a uh music event happening here tomorrow that i'm pretty excited about
yeah yeah yeah we're um the the bitcoin park open house tomorrow is value for value themed we have
uh four new musicians who are coming into the space going to be playing for about an hour upstairs
and on the front end um ainsley costello and i are going to be doing a fireside chat on the state of
the state of the value for value industry, the state of independent music,
um, her Genesis story and, and this, and where she's at in her career. It's, uh,
it's about, it's coming up on two years now from that infamous lightning summit where she showed up
and, um, just dove headfirst into this world. It's been, it's been insane to watch that trajectory.
Yeah. I'm excited for it. It's a, so what, what can we expect? So there's going to be some,
some chants there's going to be some music performed yep it'll be a traditional nashville
round so there'll be four artists playing acoustic sets um one song at a time across the um you know
the the main room in in the bitcoin park studio upstairs and um be broadcast live on tunester and
we hope we have a raucous crowd and a lively chat room going so we can really show these artists
It's, you know, what this community is all about
and, like, why should they give a shit about what we're doing?
Why should they, you know, why should they really take this seriously?
Because we know the tech.
We know the tools that we have.
But at the end of the day, it's, you know, with a traditional musician,
the results and the economics really matter.
and to get that feedback in the form of sats is important
rather than just the thumbs up on Facebook
or the hearts on Instagram.
To actually give them true value
and see the reaction, that's priceless
when you can watch the light bulbs kind of click.
It doesn't happen with everybody,
but hopefully one of them, hopefully all of them,
will catch the bug and get the mind virus like we all have.
have you thought about bringing dennis porter to orange pill all these artists
it's got to be that's got to be so price point you know so i i think uh i my question would do
you think you need more drama do you think it's got to be more like uh battle of the bands or like
you know real real uh you know artists of of bitcoin park like like real housewives or something
like that um or do you and do do you think you maybe need more commercials do you because i think
nostril people or people that use like wave lake and in toonster and i think that not all of them
know that uh the mute that that they've got you know music to sell like they they but if you make
a commercial it's like oh i can go tip ainsley costello uh you know 12 000 sats for her new
album uh i didn't know i could do that so you just need more commercials sell themselves you
know sell themselves sell sell your uh sell your art you know instead of just waiting for somebody
to come by and appreciate it be like hey this is i'm proud of this i'm this is for sale come uh
come buy my album i think you know i think more people would i think that's not that they
are willing to it's just sometimes you gotta trick him into trick him into it well i mean
the value for value the pod father is very open and um direct in his in his business model and
asking he said you have to ask so um that is that's a very real a real thing that drives results
is make sure people know what you're up to and what this means.
And that's something that I always try to drill home on my little soapbox
when I get a chance to speak before a show or give a little statement between sets.
I just say, if this is what you want your artists to take on a path for their career,
then we need to step up and speak with our feet and speak with our wallets as well
and make sure that they're getting the appropriate compensation
or love for the big risk that they're taking.
Yeah, I would categorize that I've had a decent amount of success
and good experience on the value for value economy,
especially on the Oscar and some of these platforms.
With all my art, people know I've got music.
I've got it on Spotify as well.
But I've got it on these platforms.
Richard has a huge catalog of music and people.
It's really popular in these communities.
And I think my secret to my success is playing hard to get.
Instead of asking people to lose at me or to boost me,
I get the chicks a little bit like my songs.
And they're like, why is he not asking me to boost him?
what's going on you know it's play hard to get a little bit is that your dating strategy as well
yeah exactly i just ignore if i think a girl's beautiful and i really want to get to know her
i completely ignore her i put my headphones on i listen to bitcoin podcasts and i don't even make
eye contact and that usually gets them curious and they're like what what podcast is he listening to
that's more interesting than this dress and then i tell her it's you know pressed attention bitcoin
fundamentals and then she's interested she knows i'm an intellectual i mean that makes sense with
the hot women you know it's because like hot women are just they're always used to all the
guys like going after them you know what i mean it's just like unusual if but isn't there like a
point where you get worried about it where like she thinks you're probably gay you know what i mean
i think it's pretty clear if you look at me in the the state of my clothes how wrinkly are like
i don't make my own bed i i don't iron my own clothes like she so she's probably not gonna um
mistake me for being too like in the feet so yeah you're you're you're really in the
the music ecosystem right you're a big fan of music very involved with it like what's your
overview in your opinion of the the bitcoin ecosystem and its involvement with music so
we've got ainsley we got sarah jade we've got uh tip nz we've got uh joe martin um we got
scardust now we've got uh a bunch of people putting music out there we got satoshi rakamoto
they're doing some pretty cool stuff man like quacks man like quacks yeah there's a lot of
there's a lot of activity there's a lot of a lot of ogs in the turn in the in the sense that
two to three years is og in this space right now um and there's a lot of passion
a lot of concentrated passionate people and we're really looking for a breakout you know i think it's
everybody wants to you know figure out what's what's the next big wave right what's the next
what where's the god candle of a musician adoption and in this culture growing um
i i stand honestly i stand in awe at times of of what needs to happen and and and like i look at
uh nostr as a whole or musician adoption as like a subset of that and i think back to the the tiktok
ban in january i'm like well man if that didn't do it what's gonna do it right everybody's freaking
out. You think about in my world, I operate in the independent venue promoter business. So we
interact with thousands of independent artists a year and do 1,300 concerts a year. And we don't
deal in the recorded music space as much, but we very much see the impact of it because they
if they're not making money on their records they need to make money on tour
they need to make money on merch and they need to make money on other things and that puts
it puts a pretty unique strain on the relationship between the venue the promoter and the booking
agent who's representing the artists um and i see these people who are spending so much time
like 10 000 hours like developing their brand on youtube on tiktok you know taking all these
instagram videos just to get followers because if you don't have a million followers a record
label is not going to even let you in the door for a conversation and so they got to do all these
little dances just to get into quote the music industry and then then you'll have enough money
behind you so that you can go on tour and afford it.
And so when I see the tick tock band go I like oh this is going to be it Everybody going to see this now Like this is this is the catalyst and it didn happen and then you know even pre before that like i got really excited when all
the swifties left twitter i was like well they got to go somewhere and they're gonna see that
the other one's just as flawed as this one but it's it hasn't it hasn't directed the traffic to
what we're doing yet and so i don't know if we need to you know talk to the ceo derrick ross or
what's got to happen for the nostril marketing department to kick in but we're um i think it's
good i think it's i think the tools are there but they're they're they're not ready they're not ready
for the mainstream but do we need do we need to bring back good morning post uh on roster like do
we need to like lighten up the mood i know bodell is pretty grumpy and he's like one of the biggest
influencers on roster so he kind of sets the mood for the rest of the users kind of and the you know
that main primal algorithm um so everybody's grumpy and then you start saying good morning
again and it's like lighten up the mood be bullish this is the bull market and uh just yeah just
me that will finally help it be a little bit more palatable to the mainstream and gonna draw some
more interest yeah we got we got odell off all caps so he's he's dialing it down a little bit
but yeah a little little morale boost might might be great bring lighten it up
i'm waiting for the the point in the bull market where odell like last cycle where he wasn't humble
anymore 100k by conference day going on btc sessions all drunk screaming we need we need
that odell back in my opinion he talked about that on uh god what was just the podcast
the other day he talked about look out for the top signals when i get euphoric
the overall sentiment seems pretty negative right now like a lot of people are grumpy they're
they're not enjoying paper bitcoin summer pleditors run around issuing purity tests left and right
the the morale seems pretty low right now i don't i don't really know uh why that is bitcoin
continues to hit all-time highs you know i i i almost wondered ken you said like the top is when
matt odell gets euphoric can matt odell still get euphoric is still having him he seems like maybe
but part of his grumpiness is he feels jaded and i think the problem is we're letting people like
pleaded or set the narrative we're trying to convince pleaded or that it's bullish that we
should be bullish that we should be optimistic we're trying to convince him instead of just
being bullish and optimistic because there's so much happening in this space because it is growing
i don't know who's letting pleaded or set the narrative i'm not letting them set the narrative
i think i think he's entertaining i enjoy it's it's like i don't know i did when i was
collecting my credentials in college i took an anthropology course which was pretty interesting
i feel like uh watching platterers like watching like well like a anthropological study of a
i don't even know how i would describe him but just like a very um unhappy individual
yeah i just mean like you know he will you know he published a really like a really
red chart about a bitcoin meme stock you know or treasury company and you got like the ceos
like cory from swan who are constantly having to reply and retweet pleasure and explain why that
chart is actually bullish and they got to do it over and over and over again and i just think that
it's you if you really are bullish you shouldn't have to retweet and reply to everything pleditor
says well why do you retweet and reply to everything pleditor says from just reporting
the news he is a um an important influencer in the space his tweets are notable so
is this like a problem that you face you try and bring musicians into the bitcoin ecosystem
into the circular economy and they're just met with like hundreds of purity tests
is that something that you you have to like give them a rundown on like okay bitcoin not crypto um
you know there's all these landmines that they can walk on is that is that a barrier to entry
that you find difficult dealing with new artists interested yeah absolutely it is um
i mean we all know there's just certain things that are toxic on on bitcoin on social media on
and you just don't you just don't touch it but for the outside normie world
you know the bitcoin is like a term like kleenex to them it's just a generic
title for this, you know, quote, digital asset or blockchain, web three, blah, blah, blah. And
there's definitely a degree of grace that needs to be given to a newcomer who comes in and they
might, you know, they might misspeak and talk about, um, whatever, you know, goofy variation
they've gotten involved in but you know i i i've even had to educate myself on some of those
areas so that i can speak you know on a very on an educated basis to tell them what the
shortcomings are and why this is yeah certainly it's i'm not going to tell you you shouldn't go
earn a living if if all of your fans want to go buy you know a picture of an ape on a different
chain well then the market has decided that that's what you should you should sell your
fans but just be fucking transparent about what it is you're doing and and make sure you're
delivering what they want don't over promise don't tell them it's going to go to the moon
and then as soon as you get any form of value convert it to bitcoin immediately um but
But the other thing that I think is important, even for me, as I've been around in Bitcoin for not quite a decade,
but to really remember that I dabbled in that shit at one point.
The difference between somebody like that and me is time.
We know that.
Bitcoin's inevitable.
I think Noster's inevitable.
I think these things are are just a matter of how much time and engagement do you put into
giving a shit about it and you're going to just be right where I am in a couple years
and so you know if I meet if I meet somebody who's really into NFTs I'll just wait for them
to go to zero and then they'll come back to me and generally speaking though the artists
are are not in it for the wrong reasons they there's like so many of these things the
they see an opportunity to monetize something and exchange value with their with their followers and
they're trying to do it in good faith but they they're not going to dive down the technical
rabbit hole and figure out what the protocol layer looks like and and that you know some yeah
some ethereum committee can can go change all the rules overnight and then none of it matters
right i mean it it's just it it also highlights the you know when you come to some of these
platforms and you're checking out in australia it's a different crowd it's like people who are
a little bit more technical they're a little bit more withered they're pioneers they've been
trailblazing the user experience um difficulties for years decades sometimes and they're just
withered and you know they're i can only imagine like how awful we how much we would have missed
out on if ainsley costello her first post on nostr was the date pleditor was on there and he
retweeted her and said you know oh this girl's a scammer because she's the law the wrong custodial
lightning wallet like that would be like that would that'd be a shame and like but some people
might um have to get used to the brash nature of uh of some of the fans that are gonna encounter
on these platforms yeah it's it's very confusing if you if you come on and you know play play a
show on Toonster, I'll hook you up with your first lightning wallet and transaction, kind of show you
the way. And then we, you know, send you off on your journey. And it's, it becomes ideally a,
a self-taught pursuit with the support of the community at that point. And then if they go out
there and they're getting lectured on, you know, why are they using wallet of Satoshi instead of
some more sovereign choice? They're like, what am I talking about? I just want to play songs and,
engage with the fans like get the fuck out of my face and i'm out of here yeah this is yeah this is
why you're uh you probably you do a good job that you're great like you show these people how to do
it like you download wallet this is all you have to do and you say it's a little bit of a
responsibility but your goal is to get good enough that your agent handles your uh your
revenue so like you you can outsource once you've uh released a few hits you can you can get an
agent and your agent can handle all the user experience difficulties for you it's like good
motivation you want to talk about the best diamond hand you know some of these guys who've lost their
keys forever might have better diamond hands but some of these artists that i work with um that
that famous show in 23 and in uh minneapolis when ainsley and just loud generated 18 million sats
i always i always give just loud shit i'm just like yeah you got you got the most diamond hands
you didn't even know how to move your bitcoin if you wanted to like he's gonna hodl that forever
because it's such a technical barrier for him to think about i mean if he called me and said i need
to liquidate of course i'd show them how to do it but it's uh it's funny because they don't
necessarily get here we got here generally because of the bitcoin because nostr came second
um for me now nostr first is is a way more compelling value prop for engaging this community
because you you have to you know you you meet an artist set them up with primal set them up with fountain that takes you know two to three minutes hopefully if the email validations go through quick um zap zap adam curry or zap the bugle on fountain and then
take them back over to primal and show that it cross posted they're like holy cow i've got these
two quote platforms but somehow they're talking to each other and so then that that usually gets
them engaged in this idea that these aren't new apps these aren't new platforms but
buried in that is you have to deal with bitcoin right this stuff all all of the value that's
extracted and earned and exchanged is in the form of bitcoin so if you like what you see on that
quote social media front on Noster well then you've got the task in front of you that you're
gonna have to figure out this Bitcoin thing that you've been cringing at for five years
and it becomes more of something that you want to seek rather than get you know shoved down your
mouth by a bunch of Bitcoin evangelists which is that's the normal pattern that we all try and
guilty as charged here is I see I see the value prop and I see all of the similarities between
music and the finance world. I'm in finance by trade, my day job. I'm a CPA working in the music
industry and running these venues. So I got into Bitcoin from a finance standpoint of how this,
what this means for banking and personal finance and sovereignty. And working tangentially then
in music you're you look at it's like this is the same problem just in a different structure it's
everything is centralized gate kept nobody owns what they think they own it's it's all permission
based and that makes so much more sense when you paint it in the in the light of nostor to an artist
because they use tools that look like nostor all the time and that's why you know that's why i i
I leaned into TuneStir is like this is something that people are familiar with the visual isn't
scary it doesn't it's not a new concept it's it's just not a very good business model in in the real
music world like not many people are doing streams successfully and monetizing it but
it's kind of a Trojan horse for me it it gives them something to do that is zero risk
low effort and if if they walk in and see a whole bunch of crazy maniacs like us zapping and chatting
on the side of the live stream and then at the end of the night i get to say hey you you made 300
extra bucks how do you know do you want to collect that or you know how do you feel about that what
and that's when they their eyes perk up a little bit and they say tell me more that's that's cool
but you can't sell them up front it doesn't work the other way well have you ever tried to like
explain to them that if they do this there's a pathway for them to be an advisor at a bitcoin
treasury company paper bitcoin company that's that is the next step by far
you have you thought about you that you need uh or you could benefit from your own mr beast have
you have you gone out looking for a mr beast who will just be such a uh they'll just cause so much
commotion uh and so maybe we'll be talking about it that they'll they'll go viral your entire
platform will go viral and then people will want to be like well mr b the the sworn still mr beast
guy could do it i could do it and then you just you got people playing video games you got hot
shit smoking cigarettes and talking about podcast like you got all these cool streams that uh
people were they start using it and it just becomes of like a popular alternative something
like that i don't know you need a mr beast is what i'm saying that's an interesting idea that's
like what nico from simply bitcoin is trying to be right btc sessions who do you think's the best
candidate for the mr beast of bitcoin
oh i mean it's it is it's it's almost it is a hybrid between those two because i did i just
think that uh well they do what they have like simply sessions that is like our mr beast well
that's our top one i i think isabella is a good candidate that's that's that's a good one see who
goes into merchandise first um so one thing that i've found pretty fascinating uh just interacting
with the value for value music ecosystem interacting with a lot of bitcoin people uh
is their taste in music it seems like a lot of them they like little bubble so they just like
like you know edm with like michael saylor talking over it uh i don't know if that's like
the only music they listen to so ainsley kind of has like a pop uh yeah she she's a pop artist
uh scar dust you know a lot of people when i was sharing their their music video rip the bitcoin
theme music video uh they predominantly said they didn't like metal which you know surprised me
because bitcoin seems pretty metal to me uh kind of punk rock metal um
the bitcoin or personality type is according to brandon quittum study is like an intj which i
think is kind of like an autist like what what type of music like do you think there's something
here where the personality type of people that are into bitcoin they like certain types of music
like do we the the people that are going to be most successful with this ecosystem
are they gonna have to like are they gonna be the types of the the genre of music that like luke
dash jr listens to exactly don't make me like pot music for the normies you gotta make um
music for your autistic audience what type of music do autists like besides edm with michael
saylor talking over well those do get a lot of traction on nostor they are um it is it is funny
and i think it it it is also the source of a little confusion when you have some of these
artists like uh theo katzman and scardust and laser beak who come in at a much more traditional
um traditional music background and they have significant success already and they come on
and they're competing with that and they got nothing you know they i mean theo's gotten a
pretty good amount of love but um it is uh it is challenging to like you know we've been talking
about scardust quite a bit and how they're just the perfect fit for the space and they're embracing
it um they they're in line with the ethos and they're actually they're doing these 24-hour
streams they're releasing their music on nostr and um and yeah little bubble is is uh taking
all the zaps a lot of times um i'm not sure how we tackle that other than um you know with toonster
and the bugle using using some of our reaches to let everybody know when i think it's really
important when a when an artist is making a pivot into this space that that we really try to raise
them up and showcase them and um i know that's what we're doing we're trying to do with scardust
is um get yeah increase the awareness so that they're not total strangers to to the rest of
the community if they're not you know if they're not rapping about the having you know yeah i um
one of the things that we do at the bugle that just thinking about it more during this conversation
I think we should emphasize more as I, we, we, we want to find people who, and artists and creators and our friends who, uh, we think other people need to hear their content or hear what they have to say or listen to their music, whatever it is, if we enjoy it.
and it's like sending a signal like if we're advocating for more of this value for value
exchange we should be out there more with these big hard-hitting zaps on a really good video a
really good song a really good post and it's like hey i'm gonna put up a couple hundred but you know
a couple hundred thousand sats a couple million sats um because i think that this this artist this
person um my friend i think it's worth it and i think when you you set that example i think it
invites other people to like whoa that's a that that was a pretty big stake like that's a big
signal that they put that much that must be a good song that must be a good um you know podcast
whatever it is um and i think that builds and i think that's like something that we could do i
think to bugle we like we should do more of yeah no exactly it's like we need like an open sats of
uh funding artists and in a way if that makes sense like like what you're describing is that
if somebody shows interest in us we have to be hardcore simps like real hardcore i'm a hardcore
simp that scarred us for sure yeah uh you know part of the reason is like i really genuinely
like their music i think it's some of the best music in the world uh especially from the singing
standpoint the complexity of it like i i come from uh listening to a lot of classical music and i
think metal and classical music uh with the complexity of it like you look at scardust they
have uh a full choir featured in a lot of their shows they they feature a lot of different artists
that are really good the uh uh the music happening in the background the guitar the drums the bass
is very complex it's uh like there's a lot of really good music out there you know that
just consists of like three chords on repeat you know very like um simple strong structure
you've got verse chorus verse chorus verse chorus um some of my music's like that i think uh
Yeah, some of my songs, they only have like four chords,
but you just see like the wild range of dynamics It definitely like next level and uh i i have this belief you know we all read the bitcoin standard you know and heard safe of dean thoughts on on bitcoin art
or fiat art and we're seeing you know fiat art dominating right now and it's just trash
a lot of trash out there and i think there there are people that are actually creating really really
really cool i mean you look at like modern art you know safety likes to um shit on modern art
you like you look at the stuff that madex is doing and it's is very very cool next level
uh yeah i just want to highlight stuff yeah pretty much yes exactly i if you see rod palmer
boosted some piece of content on fountain or on primal 50 000 sats 30 000 sats immediately you
know at least one thing that it's not ai slop that it's not you know it's not wife slop your
wife don't show this meme don't listen to the song your wife it's not wife slop it's something that
uh maybe i should take two minutes out of my day to listen to or to check out or to laugh at or to
learn from but that's the signal like we can we can set the example i guess to uh just keep
highlighting what is an ai slum yeah i think another you know thinking about another thing that
that one of the major problems for an artist is discoverability and that's sort of what we're
talking about here is in our little community um when somebody comes in we have our little rituals
where you hashtag introductions and then everybody you know zaps them and we start following for a
while but um i i think there is there's a next level that we need to figure out on like how to
sustain it i know um a really good example is uh henry invisible if you've seen him on any of his
posts on on nostrils he we did a show um at anton's nightclub in austin last december with
Adam Curry and Ainsley. And there were six musicians there. I did a half day conference
called Sats by Southwest at Bitcoin Commons. And we had a bunch of artists on stage talking and
Derek Ross, Parker Lewis, DJ Val, a bunch of Phantom Power, Heather Larson, Mike Newman,
there's a whole bunch of people involved in the space and then the next day we went over to
Antone's and had this six person um just we called it an artist showcase and each each artist got
introduced by Adam Curry and he gave him a little spiel about what we're doing and the value for
value movement and um henry came in totally blind he had he was a he was a late fill-in in the last
week i had to um i reached out to an agent down in austin and and said who's a who's a good
tickets you know who's moves tickets in the club scene down here and would be open-minded to
something like this and she said first thing they said is henry invisible and he you know he had
he dove right in. I can't remember how much he got from that night. Probably. I mean,
I think we got over 5 million sats that night and he got, you know, five or 600 bucks probably,
but he immediately dove in and started posting, you know, short form videos from his studio
almost on a daily basis. And he was texting me and calling me and, um, you know, he was going
into the tech i was it was super exciting to see and that's you know that's the kind of stuff
that that gets momentum but then it was clear i i have i owe him a phone call i got to get back and
see where he's at now and i know his his posts have slowed down but i think artists are still
developing kind of parallel fan bases so he's got he's got his austin live community where he could
he could go out and sell 200 300 tickets a night down there and um but if he's not bringing
those fans into nostor to support him in nostor then he's losing out because the people that are
currently in nostor are not familiar with him and they're not in austin at all these shows
so the people who are most likely to really zap hard and get emotional about your music
are not the people that are on Primal right now
if you're a new artist.
And so until we bridge that,
bringing their fans here,
I don't know, we got to really support them
and give them the favorable results here
so that then they take their next steps
to invest more of their time and energy here.
So where are some of the hubs?
So you've got Phoenix.
Phoenix is definitely a hub.
You've got the WaveLite guys out there and QW.
You've just got a huge community out there.
You've got Nashville with Bitcoin Park.
Austin has a big Bitcoin scene.
It kind of seems like those types of areas.
I know Minneapolis has a big Bitcoin scene as well.
yep they're popping up a lot of the um a lot of the podcast 2.0 um people are in the midwest
in missouri um sarah jade's out in california um there's some things popping off in new york but
it really it it really demands a physical space that's accessible and you know it's like set up
to be because like when i take this on the road it could cost five figures really fast
so like take all the equipment out pop up a show in a different city and
rent a room get some equipment book the artists um it's a pretty terrible business model as much
fun as it is but it um if you have something that you could just pop up in your hometown like
you know the we had the vinyl lounge here in nashville going for a couple months where
i came in and i brought i brought some cameras from minneapolis and we installed it for the
the bitcoin conference side event two years ago and um i knew the owner there so i just left my
gear there and i said let's just let's just do tunster here for as long as you want and
uh phantom power really spearheaded the whole thing and they they took over that place every
monday night and they had a house band and we ran a monday night stream for four or five weeks um
that was that's the model but the problem is we need then to have the expertise of phantom power
to move on to someplace else and you know teach a man how to fish don't just give him a bunch of
fish and and that's it wasn't sustainable to just have them show up every week so one of the things
we've already kind of talked about but i wanted to highlight again was like just the audience and
like knowing the the new audience that you will be engaging with in this you know on austrian in
this community um is i see a lot of people they do try to promote you know music or uh content that
is kind of more like mainstream which is a generally younger audience but one thing i am
constantly reminded about nostra and the bitcoin community in general is like it is a slightly
older um demographic so it's like a lot of gen x there's a lot of boomers uh that are you know
buying some crazy emoji that you might not suspect and what like the people this like middle-aged
people grew up with is um was mtv so you had like total requests live with carson daily and you
everybody would like they'd call in and they'd sit on the phone and they would like wait for the
operator to like hey who do you vote for or then they would eventually do it online but everybody
would go home and they'd like vote for who would get in the top 10 their favorite songs and that's
what we need we need a like a nostr like tunster total request live we need a carson daily and
every day you you go at a certain time and you boost and you uh who's your favorite song what's
your favorite artist that day who do you want in the top 10 i would probably do that all the time
we need a teamster trl teamster trl there we go that's the that's the that's the for the show
i love that and and and all these creative gamification
ideas where the artists are the ones who benefit is is what i've really seen successful we
for the traditional shows that i do like i'd never stick a tv near the stage that's a big no-no and
in concert production the the artist is the focal point you want distractions adjacent to the stage
um but for these bitcoin events like tomorrow at the at the bitcoin park event we're going to have
tvs flanking the the performance area that shows what's going on online and it shows
the zap activity and oftentimes we have a customized leaderboard that has
effects and whatnot so if you're the top zapper you can see who you know you're kind of jockeying
with with your your fellow plebs and seeing who's who's got the most love for this band
and um that's really how those those two shows got pretty viral and got such a crazy amount of
of artist support is because people were uh people were competing it was one of them was rss
boosts versus nostros apps and everybody wanted to win and then the one in in austin was just
individuals on the leaderboard and there are a couple people trying to outdo each other
exactly and it's awesome exactly uses um and this is an opportunity like it goes back to
where I said earlier,
my approach is that
I'm going to play hard to get.
So instead of, you know,
you can now reach out
to a broader audience.
You could stream this on YouTube.
You could stream this on Rumble.
You could stream it on X.
But if you want to
get your favorite song
in the top 10,
you're going to have to go get Bitcoin
and pay a lightning invoice
or zap a Nostra profile.
Otherwise, it's a good show.
You'll watch, but you don't get a say
no matter what platform you're on
unless you just figure out
the very easy step
of just downloading a Primal Wallet,
signing up for,
and then boom, now you can zap.
Now you can vote.
And they want to.
They want to be a part of this community
and being a part of this community
is this influence
a fun influence battle to get your favorite music in the toaster trl
trl and maybe yeah exactly yeah yeah it's interesting to think uh it sounds like there's
a lot of ways for people to get involved outside of just being musicians like people with av skills
people that are good at making memes people that want to help out at these events people that know
people that run venues or work at venues or own venues, uh, people that podcast.
All of these.
I mean, do you know of any, um, I know there's been a few attempts.
I haven't followed it as closely as I could because I've been so hyper-focused on Bitcoin
podcasts, but you know, of many value for value music podcasts out there that are really
going out and promoting uh people there are some the phantom power team has the the artist hour
the business hour um they've been a little less regular on the cadence lately but um my favorite
one was adam curry's boosted grand ball live when he was doing that um because that was just such a
cool. Um, it was such a cool, like it reminded me of the radio DJs when I was growing up in the
nineties and eighties and he, you know, he'd play them and then you'd literally hear this,
you'd hear the feedback of the, of the boosts and the zaps as they were happening. And he's,
he's just so gifted in his delivery of all of his years in broadcasting. Um,
but there's a handful of them out there um
uh wave lake was doing one for a while um
but we i wouldn't say there's a dominant you know maybe maybe that's the niche let's go the
the toonster bugle t-r-l you know we get to insert t-r-o yeah i mean get some i think a way to
to provide a discovery mechanism where people you know people who take the plunge and go into the
space get distribution right away yeah like a t you know you talked about you had these events
and these live streams where you bring people together and you build hype and you get i think
it's just create and you could be a music podcast it could be a podcast it could be a meetup it could
be anything it could be these special events that you guys throw um just creating more reasons to
get people's attention and say listen we're spending money like i said if i put 50 000
sats on a uh a podcast it's not ai slump if you're putting proof of work into this cool production
in some city and you're bringing people's favorite artists from these all these different platforms
who have their own niche fans
and you're bringing them all together
and you're saying this stuff's good
and we're putting it out there
and we're saying you should listen to this.
Just doing that as much as possible
at every scale, big or small possible,
is just another opportunity to attract more people
and bring more people in and grow the space.
Yeah, the individuals that come to mind
who are really working on this community,
the most intimately and successfully are actually right here in in bitcoin park's backyard the
phantom power group has started a a community on the mighty network and they're aggregating like
when they have these four musicians that are going to come in tomorrow they're going to be
onboarded to this network and it's this online community where everybody everybody can kind of
speak freely and not you know the idea is you're not going to run into those like
points of shame where you might you might say the wrong might say the wrong thing and
reference uh alt this is backstage this is backstage like backstage talk locker room talk
you're you're with other uh they're from the rock stars you're yeah you guys are gonna talk a little
bit loose about you know some of the some of the experiences you had on the blockchain and that is
that is a direct result of the work that phantom power has been doing in the last year plus and
seeing some of the experiences of the musicians that you know because we've partnered together
on most of the the larger shows that tunester's done and the artists um you know for various
reasons some of them got really interested and then they just fell off and they they either
didn't get the results or they got intimidated um some of them yeah some of them definitely have uh
had mixed thoughts about you know the political landscape on nostor and that's just you know
that's just an unfortunate side effect of of what what's gone on in the world and and how the artist
community generally trends in that direction yeah so yeah when you don't know the difference
between bitcoin and trump coin it all looks the same and and so this community that phantom power
has put together is it's just getting started they launched it over the summer but it's a fantastic
idea to give that little buffer of protection and safety to let people step on their toes and not
have to get just murdered in the plain sight of the internet and say the wrong thing yeah we need
we need more places that it's just it's um it's public that you don't have to pass any purity
tests to have a conversation here or to collaborate here to learn here to talk here you don't need to
pass any purity tests uh to belong and i think that is more important than ever it's fine if you
want to have echo chambers it's fine if you want to just see your timeline just completely full of
ghost of dick whitman saying you know every single ticker on uh the cop 100 is a scam is a shit coin
we did it we get it some people like that but if you want to go someplace where you you're not gonna
you're not gonna get kicked out for accidentally posting about monero like boom come here yeah
it makes sense it's kind of like uh it's kind of like training wheels you know what i mean like you
uh like when you're teaching a kid how to ride a bike a lot of times you don't just uh unless
you're like my dad you know slap you on the bike and just push you down the steepest hill possible
and be like call you a pussy when you fall over uh a lot of people like benefit from from learning uh
not getting thrown into the fire initially it makes sense yeah i don't know like should matthew
crater crater do a 750 course like teaching people about all the purity tests and the
intricacies of a bitcoin culture and we should accept expect these artists to go through the
course first or we'd ensure that we'd have based musicians or maybe a musician
yeah you shouldn't have to take like an sat course to prepare for all the purity tests you're gonna
have to pass your first day on a new social media app that you were hoping you would just be like
hey like i'm gonna make new friends here i'm gonna find new fans and immediately you're subject to
this bar exam before you're allowed into the community then we need to get rid of that but
The people who come to these groups also have to remember that what this means is it similar like if you do stand comedy like if you go to an open mic you gonna have to listen to somebody who might not
be that articular that funny do their best israel gaza jokes and they're going to be really
fucking yeah it's just going to be you're going to be shaking your head but that's the risk you
take it's going to be there all that's going to potentially be there but uh everybody can still
laugh at a laugh at a good joke i i really like the idea of bitcoin standardized testing so like
we have a new person coming to the community we issue them like an lsat or an sat they have their
score it determines how much we should boost them on nostr or you know the podcast appearances that
they have it's how many if we should follow them or not like if you're below like a certain score
you're like a bad bitcoiner uh you have the ability to court or credit score yeah yeah
bitcoiner credit score yeah i like that a lot like an influencer credit score you have it's like
you're if you're a bitcoin influencer this is your kind of like credit score are you a scammer
like do you have to bring it up or do you got like a pristine got pristine collateral for reputation
i mean it'd make a lot of sense for these these bitcoin treasury companies like
you know like you see that preston pish just got hired by one so all the podcasters are getting
gobbled out but they're going to run out of podcasters eventually and they're going to have
to start going to musical artists at some point and uh it makes sense like you have to achieve a
certain score to like get a sponsorship from cold card or like uh to uh go on what bitcoin did or or
to you know sit on the board of micro strategy or whatever get an advisory uh roll at sequins or
is that am i saying right sequins or saquans saquans like saquan barkley from the philadelphia
the eagles yeah to speak to speak at bitcoin magazines conference like i just think this
makes a whole lot of sense i think i think plenitor would agree with us on this yeah um
gee that's that he would love that in fact he would probably run in like a he would start it
like you're get it on umbral but he doesn't like umbral so like a home server so you run your own
influencer credit score it's like a note it's like you know that this credit score is not uh
made up like start nine server yeah i'm sure start nine would be down with that that makes sense
all righty well uh one of the things that we do mike is um at the end of every show is we
go through all the boosts uh did you listen to our last show we we interviewed crypto mags
i don't think i've gotten to that one yet well we won't give you a hard time we know you're a
regular listener um yeah so we interviewed crypto mag she is the canadian queen of uh paper bitcoin
there's a good time shout out to crypto mag she's hot she's gonna start a podcast soon
a blonde podcast i'm down yeah we need more hot blondes doing podcasts for sure
her and i her and i've been uh talking uh about podcasts i mean there's uh
uh, you know, it's like somebody that has been doing this for a while,
forget how much of a learning curve there is with this stuff.
Like podcasting is hard work.
There's a lot of people that drop off.
Um, there's a lot of people that choose not to, not to do it.
You know, listening to podcasts is hard work,
but producing them is also hard work.
Uh, yeah.
Anyways, first boost 1000 sats.
You'll know this guy.
pies he says one of the highlights of my life is being referred to as a thirst trap by the bugle
boys lfg with four exclamation points uh strong arm strong arm strong arm mushroom mushroom mushroom
salute salute salute you probably know pies pretty well legend he's everywhere do you think he's a
thirst trip he's definitely he's got to be 80 hours per week don't you say i think i i think
we just we need to get pies listening to uh some of this music he's listening to a lot of podcasts
but he's also constantly like every couple episodes he'll be like i'm just his ears are
bleeding either from you know destruction work uh or listening to me podcasts but it's like he's
like he's gonna take time away i think he should start listening to some of this music because if
If you started getting into this,
the pies would be blasting us on the boom box
at the construction site.
You could hear it all throughout the neighborhood.
Everybody's too afraid of him
to tell him to turn down the volume.
Like nobody's,
if you think that you're going to go up to pies,
if you saw him in public
and ask him to turn down the volume
on his boom box or in his headphones,
yeah, you probably wouldn't do it.
And dude, he'll be hitting them with 40 hours per week,
teams for TRL and like while they're in Osborne.
dude pies might be we got to get pies listen to this music who should pies who should pies check
out do you think do you think he might like yeah what type of music do you think pies listens to
see a hip-hop guy i was i was thinking beastie boys in my head i think try try doom tree and
laser beak doom tree is a legendary independent hip-hop collective in minneapolis um they uploaded
their album from about 15 years ago 12 years ago onto wave lake and i tell you if if v4v was around
when that album came out i'd be a broke son of a bitch i listen to that so much um and uh i love
those guys and laser beak is the is one of the artists in that group so his his music is his
solo career from doom tree i think i was listening they have very clever lyrics yeah they're great i
mean if we put a show on sale for doom tree right now that probably sell 10 000 tickets and just
minneapolis would go nuts so they're phenomenal yeah
speaking of minneapolis uh what a crazy city they're calling it little mogadishu now right
because of all the immigrants yeah that we have the largest somali and mong
communities outside of their homeland yeah so is anybody orange filling them
got to get dennis porter on the job right but you need to get dennis the ass exactly i've not seen
him in minneapolis anytime recently well if you're gonna orange pill the somalis you're about to get
a minneapolis about to get a somali mayor so that's a reason for dennis porter to go out there
because he he likes the orange pill interesting there we go um so is it minnesota that is the
land of lakes yeah 10 000 lakes sir has there been any concerns about all these smallies moving out
there uh becoming pirates on these lakes i have not i have not heard of this concern yet but i
now i'm you know it's an election season here i'm gonna go have to go have to kick the kick the tires
here and see if this is on any of the dockets for discussion this november yeah it's good to remind
all those lakes minnesota is underrated place to go for a boating accident yes there are lots of
them that's we have a strong bitcoin community of people who've lost their bitcoin well i mean
you know it's kind of a risky situation you know like you go out to the lake you're playing on
having a boating accident and you accidentally run into somalis who end up pirating your bitcoin
So it just doesn't go.
You want your keys to be at the bottom of the lake, but they end up in the hands of a Somali pirate.
It's a dangerous situation.
For most people if you think about it you do not think that an hour outside of Duluth Minnesota is a likely place to run into somali pirates so you just not going to be prepared for it and if you don know so it it
just know the rest i've been enjoying the i am the captain memes about the future mayor i don't
really have anything against him for being somali it's just he's communist you know they're they're
are the worst odd the next uh yeah a bite so pies you gotta get into teenster um you gotta start
listening to this music because i think you're gonna be into it the next one is from turkey
500 sats turkey did not have a message thank you turkey uh the next one bitcoin account
212 sets bugle makes going to the laundromat an enjoyable 40 hour per week day and yes uh
absolutely uh sitting in traffic waiting for your wife to try on clothes at the mall
uh going to the laundromat all those are great opportunities to listen to more bitcoin podcasts
when's the last time that you went to a laundromat mike buying no kyc bitcoin during
covid really yeah the guy wanted to meet at a laundromat there's uh there was one of the last
this has all subsequently been lost in boating accidents with smallie pirates involved but
the uh laundromat in town there's one left that didn't have kyc requirements
for an atm and so i'd just drive there you know as during the during the mask era and just roll up
and and uh get your get your kyc free bitcoin and call it a day so i did that for a while until they
took it away what's the point of a bitcoin atm if it has kyc because like bitcoin atms they're
known for having horrendous exchange rates yeah no it's that's not a good economical decision it's
you got to place a premium on that bitcoin and take take good care of it but if you're if you're
scanning your driver's license and taking a selfie there's i can't even remember what the premium is
like 15 20 it's stupid well they'll have a premium on the price but then also charge some outrageous
just fee on top of that yeah it's like stub hub they get you on both sides so who do you think
or like the types of customers that are using those services now it's just obviously people
that don't listen to uh bitcoin podcasts they don't hear marty tell them that river's the best
place to buy bitcoin or you know whichever exchange is sponsoring it i have no clue but probably uh
i don't know maybe the ethbros are buying their etc on there or something
oh interesting they got all kinds of shit coins on there you buy monero that's the question no
no exchanges have monero so maybe the bitcoin atms have monero well right now they're getting 51
percent attack so you might boost somebody with monero and then comes to find out it's got reord
uh and they didn't get uh they didn't get their pay anyway yeah i think uh i don't know what's
going on over there i need to look into it more i saw peter todd tweeting about it
it's pretty interesting we need monero bid access to defend the network
i think they i think they call them laptops but
i'm not sure about that you'll probably use your cell phone too
uh nostrigang101sats a shout out to clara and fitz tallow for sunning your tits
yeah uh crypto mags was shilling uh clarin fits tallow who's your favorite tallow person so there's
there's a few so there's clarin fits i'd never heard of them there's uh kit sats she's got golden
tallow steak and shake has tallow steak and shakes my favorite tallow that's what i use on my face
is steak and shake tallow that's the only one that i'm familiar with i'm a big fan of steak and shake
no complaints from open mike what do you think's better steak and shake or waffle house
it's got to be steak and shake the problem with steak and shake is they close they're not 24 hours
that's true oh so on the last episode uh the bugle weekly ron and i did we were doing we're
debating on which um you know when when bitcoin fixes everything all the restaurants are going to
let you smoke cigarettes inside again what do you think the first restaurant to allow people to smoke
inside is going to be i i said waffle house that's a that's a pretty strong lead um denny's got to be
up there you think denny's yeah we we discussed denny's denny's was uh part of this i don't think
it's denny's yeah but i mean there's a lot of pressure on denny's they they're they claim to
be america's diner to retain that title i i think they they really have to let people smoke inside
again it's like they're in the running my hope for dennis porter is that once he's uh orange
pilled every single politician that he's going to start teaching people about cigarettes but
you know i first and i heard some people talk about our last episode and we had this discussion
and they said that in their mind, the Citadels,
the McDonald's will have the big ball pit,
and the parents will be able to sit inside,
watch their kids play in the McDonald's ball pit,
smoke cigarettes inside.
So I switched mine from Walling John Silver's to McDonald's.
I think people are going to have that nostalgia.
I hope so.
McDonald's has really gone downhill.
i've been trying to reach people at mcdonald's for years now to figure out where the dollar menu
went and they will not respond to me i don't know what their deal is they just rug pulled the entire
world i don't know if they're like waiting to bring back the usdt menu or something or what
the deal is here but we had the orange bill ronald mcdonald i guess i mean mcdonald's
adopting bitcoin if you could pay um maybe that could bring back the dollar menu is uh usdt over
tether you could pay mcdonald's but yeah we need the orange bill ronald mcdonald's i think
and those the new bill their new mcdonald's they're just like the most they're like disto
they're like communist rest like there's no character there's no culture there's no bitcoin
podcasts you know pictures on the wall it's just sterile and i think that i think it's awful
no made x art yeah right um so i thought that was interesting uh and nostril gang you know
fits she's just shots out clara and fitz tallow again for sunning your tits and they're just
one of the guys that leads to toshi actually a couple guys they were talking about if bitcoin
hits 250k they were gonna maybe buy their wife new fake tits but the tie-in was that they were
thinking about using tallow instead of silicone for their wife's fake tits for 250k and i just
thought that was interesting people are using tallow now i think that's a bad purchase i'm
personally a small tit guy but that's just me there are some guys like big utxos some guys like
small utxos you know it's just everybody's got their private that's you can express yourself
however you want.
But if you are a big boob guy,
look into tallow instead of silicone.
Apparently, it's out there.
I think a much better buy
is remodeling your kitchen
than fake tits.
I don't know.
I feel like your wife will want to have sex with you more
with the remodeling kitchen.
I think remodeling your kitchen,
new fake tits,
I think we're saying the same thing, buddy.
Just different ways.
the remodeled kitchen though will probably help her cook better so that's uh
i don know how fake tits can make sex better i just feel like they they get in the way and they feel weird but i don have any experience with fake fake tits so i don know i i don i not gonna have experience but what the what the official toonster
position on fake tits all are welcome here all tits matter
at toonster all tits matter that's a that's a pretty safe uh perspective um you can't go wrong
Oh yeah.
Tits matter.
Like almost everybody can universally agree on that.
Except for me.
I like smart people.
Even man boots.
Some of you have done them.
The next one pies again.
100 sats.
My ADHD led me down the path of criminal underworld.
But it also became my super bowl or my superpower when I changed my ways and helped me go down the Bitcoin rabbit hole.
Yeah.
um pies is he's not shy about his his transfer his bitcoin transformation um
if it can fix pies it could fix anyone and some of you you know need to realize that
uh the hell yeah thank you pies uh last boost btc on board there he is thumbs up thumbs up
thumbs up thank you btc on board mike really appreciate you coming on the show you got anything
you want to shout out before we uh wrap this obviously everybody should uh that can should
come to that event tomorrow night yeah thanks for having me this has been great um love the bugle
love what you guys are up to and um keep the keep the zaps going you know we really got to make sure
uh content creators like yourselves are getting getting the love we need the success stories to
share with other artists to get them on board so we're changing the world we're changing the way
that the uh content marketplace ecosystem works when you guys boost us it shows everybody else
that there's something happening here.
If you're tired of listening to podcasters,
Shell BlockFi, and Shell KYC exchanges,
you have a way to change the world.
It's better than running a BIDX, in my opinion.
Before you go, so, yeah, Toonster,
if you're listening right now
and you're you you're not even you never knew about teamster before and you're interested
where do you go what can you do at teamster like what is there a video some content that's a
the product like is doing well right now that you'd say go check this out and how do i how do
i do that how do i get there yeah so toonster is a fork of zap.stream so if you have a nostr id
Noster and Pub key pair you can you can log in and and launch a stream now if if you're not doing
music you you need to reach out to me we have a a whitelist you know for the for the musicians to
ensure that the community is just all music focused but hit me up with a DM love to hear
hear what you're up to as a as an artist or a performer entertainer and um then we you know
teach you how to how to onboard and and uh you're free to just launch your streams and do whatever
you want with the product um and you help them it's all open source on github yeah and if they're
more use of it if they if they're new and they're doing their first stream like how should they do
helped like to like how somebody hey somebody a new uh a new artist just uh is is now streaming
on tunes for like go check it out so when they're you know so somebody sums and checks it out and
sees if they like it yep then then we're here to help and here to promote and
you know work on that discoverability getting the word out i'm currently zapping ainsley costella
um so best place to dmu is on austere how the hell did you almost get 25 000 subscribers
or followers you're 24 766 how'd you pull that off i have no idea i just i just do me
grinding away well there you go folks this is the conclusion of the interview
with the most important person in the value for value music ecosystem.
Thank you all for tuning in.
And we'll catch you on the next episode of The Bugles Behind the Podcast.
Here's where your story begins.
The journey will be long.
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Enjoy it while you can, the past can't be undone
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It's your story to write, embrace faith
This is not how the journey ends
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Run with the wind
Explosions all across the sky
They try to make you quit
But you can't comply
Cigarette in hand, fire in your eye
You'd rather really live before it's your turn to die
A crossroads, choices to be made
It's your story to write, embrace faith
This is not how the journey ends
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Round with the wind
Focus fixed on the path ahead
The road is long but you can't prepare
Open sky up above your head
You'd rather try than submit to be misled
Oh
A crossroads, choices to be made
It's your story to write, embrace fate
This is not how the journey ends
No need to wait
Run with the wind
Here's where your story begins
The journey will be long
There'll be dark days, but you'll choose to be strong
Time is running away like a bullet from a gun
Chase it while you can, the past can't be undone
Across the roads, choices to be made
It's your story to write, embrace faith
This is not how the journey ends
No need to wait
Run with the wind