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Hey, folks, this is Buster Cherry.

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I just wanted to let you know about a new Bitcoin podcast that is launching.

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Are you tired of listening to podcasts done by suits?

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Do you want to hear content that affirms you doing nothing and makes you feel good about it?

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Do you want to be told that you can change the world by buying $100 hardware wallets using Bitcoin-only KYC exchanges running knots on a Start9 server, as well as buying whatever the recent gadget is?

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Do you want to hear macro gibberish that doesn't even make sense, but confirms you are right?

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Well, Pleb Slop is the podcast for you.

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By plebs for plebs.

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This podcast will complain about people doing things while making you feel good,

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while you sit on your couch smoking weed and shit posting about David Bailey on Twitter.

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The co-hosts Citizen Pleb and Toxic Plebinot will entertain you.

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This podcast can only be found on Fiat Podcasting 1.0 platforms

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because the hosts don't believe you should ever spend your Bitcoin.

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Find the hosts on Twitter, not Nostar, because the UX is too hard.

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Now sit back, light a cigarette, and enjoy the show.

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The climate is abysmal.

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Plevs are grumpy.

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They're attacking podcasters, devs, and suitcoiners, trying to cancel them for laughing at the plight of other plebs.

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Paper Bitcoin summer fizzled out before the first autumn leaves fell to the ground.

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Noster has become a ghost protocol, yet in the midst of all the chaos, Bitcoin is still trading well over 100,000 tethers.

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Many are asking if all hope is lost, but all hope is not lost, not for pioneers.

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While the plebs are gnashing their teeth, the pioneers are blazing trails and building the foundation for the future.

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Hard times create strong men and folks, we are in hard times.

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Once seen as the grumpiest Bitcoin podcaster, our guest today says he is feeling gleeful and bullish.

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known for his optimistic price predictions prolific bitcoin podcasting

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Noster only-ish ethos and being a true trailblazing pioneer of the value for value frontier

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today we are joined by Matt Odell Matt Odell is a man who has read the mandibles has survived

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multiple bear markets never succumbed to the noise of the bull markets except for that one time

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and is a true top G.

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Although a skeptic of listening to 40 hours of Bitcoin podcasts per week,

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he lives it.

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Mr. Odell, amidst all this turmoil

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and the accelerating pace of the fourth turning,

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you've chosen to no longer be grumpy.

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What can the plebs learn from your example?

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it's uh it's uh you gotta just in in in enjoy the journey have fun

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that was a great intro i wasn't expecting a question thank you for having me

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it's good to be here so we're taking over your studio we're in nashville

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it's not it's not a bugle stream without me messing something up so i i think i mistitled

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the stream are we live on primal we should be but i think i'm pointing it to the wrong account

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so which account liberty under attack i think what account is that it's a good account

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it's a pretty under attack

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yeah

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Dick Reaser does uh DJ

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he's like a doomsday DJ radio

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on Mondays for Liberty Under Attack

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but why do you speak

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in that I have a question

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for you Matt you I think

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you could be described you're a venture capitalist

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a podcaster

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a nostrich

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a father

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and a freak how would you

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rank those five

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you know

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descriptions of yourself how would you rank those

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in order of importance to you

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uh

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father

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husband bitcoiner

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okay if you said

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you don't take

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pride or at least

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as much pride as we do

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in being a bitcoin podcaster

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you know the best the podcasts were like kind of an accident and then um

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did i just kept doing them i don't uh

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i don't know the podcasts are are kind of to me are more of a means of an end i don't like think

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of myself as a podcaster but i definitely am one so maybe that's not relevant

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do you think you should have more pride should you be more proud to be a bitcoin podcaster

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um i mean i think i i think we definitely you know take pride in our work in general

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i mean when i say we me and marty on rabbit hole recap i mean i think it's uh to the point where

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it probably gets a little bit gratuitous how many times i say we've done it every week for seven

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years.

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But that specifically is

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pretty fucking crazy.

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It's that borderline insane.

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We haven't taken a break.

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Had kids. Marty's dad died.

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Like all the

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COVID shit.

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Evacuated New York.

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Gave Marty two

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masks and said, good luck.

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That was when we thought everyone was going to die.

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March 2020.

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Still had RHR that week though.

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I got married.

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It's going to turn your wedding into a podcast.

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I think that would have been really great.

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It was actually really funny.

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I did want to dox my wedding day.

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So,

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but Marty was at my wedding,

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but we did it remote.

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Why?

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We did it like remote in person

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so that the freaks wouldn't know.

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the the reason we asked the question is because podcasters are becoming incredibly

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influential and being a bitcoin podcaster comes with a lot of responsibility and i think

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or do you agree that at the very least bitcoin podcasters should take themselves as seriously

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as dennis porter well that's a pretty low bar um i mean jokes aside like i think uh

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I think it's pretty lame that people just like change their recommendations for like 10k.

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There's so many cheap people in the Bitcoin space.

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Like your self-custody recommendations shouldn't like change based on who your sponsor is.

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It's a pretty sacred responsibility to like recommend how someone saves their life savings.

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for their family and uh it shouldn't change based on who pays you the most and if it is

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going to like they should at least pay you more it's really fucking cheap yeah we take

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that responsibility very seriously that's why we only refer people to office depot for

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their paper wallets i feel like this is safe it's like how can the massad infiltrate the

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paper supply no no freaks do not i mean they're obviously joking but definitely do not use like

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a shared printer to print a fucking paper wallet that's a horrible idea no obviously not what you

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do is you take a sharpie and you draw the qr code by hand in the office depot cypherpunks use paper

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i think jay weatherman would advise that you go to the forest and you cut down five separate trees

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and you make your own paper out of the pulp and you make,

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and then you write your seed, you know,

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you make your paper wall out of those files,

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and then you put them in an envelope

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and you spread them out across the country.

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I'm kind of annoyed that I can't see the live chat.

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Are we not live on Primal?

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Check the app stream. We should be.

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Oh, I can check the app stream.

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Should we...

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I mean I could I could stop the stream and restart it now don't do that we have Lindy

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I'm checking primal right now I'm doing the I'm under in the situation from from a remote location

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We might only be live on Twitter this might actually be a problem

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Yeah, I don't see it on well. I don't know how to necessarily confirm on primal and I'm sitting on his upstream

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where is it on twitter is it on the bugle account yeah it's on the bugle account

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and i mislabeled the uh the stream i'm acting like an amateur we're live with

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adele and then another then there's an exclamation point that's on the second line pretty funny

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being a podcaster serious business it's hard it's hard

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It's a lot harder to like stream live on like five different platforms at once.

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It's a lot harder than it looks.

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Yeah, both of my shows are live shows.

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That definitely makes it much more difficult, I think.

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Yeah, you're a true pioneer.

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Thanks.

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You have been one of the biggest, longest advocates of the value for value ecosystem.

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Yeah.

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we got the citadel dispatch flag behind us

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how do you how do you want to be like when kids are learning about history and bitcoin history

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in their citadel schools 50 years from now how do you think they're going to write about you in

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the history books i know hopefully they don't at all that would be the ideal situation well

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It's not an option.

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Yeah, I think it's impossible because you've been out in front of a lot of things.

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And, you know, right now, Bitcoin Twitter is absolutely nothing but drama.

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But sometimes you know when there's some pretty spicy industry drama,

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when a screenshot, an Odell screenshot from Noster starts going viral on X.

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And last spring one of the one of these situations are where you it where you called out Michael Saylor for his you know he wanted to starve the core dads charitable donations and you whipped off the plebs into quite a frenzy over that

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um but barely you know just over a year later the tides have shifted dramatically but plebs are

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very much on Sailor's side.

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Sailor's trashing the idea of donating to well-intentioned core devs

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who just want to make Bitcoin better.

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How do you feel about that whole situation?

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Do you feel betrayed by the Pledge,

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or would you encourage them to rethink their position in this node client battle?

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Have you taken a position in this node client battle?

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No.

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Well, there's a lot of pieces there.

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First of all, so like last year, it came to my attention that Michael privately was telling people not to support the different organizations that are supporting open source developers in the Bitcoin space.

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Um, and, uh, like I first just wanted to like talk to him about it privately.

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And I, I believe it or not, like I couldn't get, I couldn't get in touch with him.

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I tried for a couple months.

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Um, so like four months went by, five months went by.

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Um, and then at that point I really just got frustrated that it was just happening behind

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closed doors.

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Like I just kind of wanted an open discussion about it.

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so I sent out two Nostra posts

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and at that point I was posting in all caps

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so it probably came out

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much more aggressive

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than I intended

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which is

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I'll take responsibility for that

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because I posted it in all caps

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but I was posting everything in all caps

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and you can look back at the Nostra post

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like I intentionally

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did not

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put my judgment there about whether or not I thought,

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I mean, you can like kind of,

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I've donated so much of my time to OpenSats.

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Like you can kind of get my opinion from that,

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just from like the proof of work there.

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But I intentionally was just like,

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I just wanted people to talk about it and know about it.

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And a lot of the immediate reaction

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was specifically that I was lying about it.

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And as someone who has been truthful

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and honest and very transparent in the space for a long time like the accusations of being a liar is

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like that sucks like that really frustrated me so at this point now when it's mostly people

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saying like sailor was right and odell was wrong at least like they're admitting that i wasn't a

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liar so i got that going for me um so that's a nice change of pace um because sailor can't both

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both be right and me be a liar.

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Logically, that's the case.

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I think, look, people are,

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everyone should have their own opinion.

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I think there's no such thing as an invalid opinion.

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It's not like an objective thing.

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It's something that people subjectively have to decide

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on what they think the best path forward is

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on open source development in general, not just in Bitcoin.

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But I would say that the idea that there's a small group of developers

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that are working on the Bitcoin protocol and Bitcoin core is a very real concern

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and is part of the reason that OpenSats exists in the first place

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because I think the answer there is actually,

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I personally think the answer there is more developers

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and more diverse funding

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and bringing more developers into the space

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that think differently and are running their own

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well-maintained, well-reviewed implementations.

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I think more choice is better in general.

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I think if you try and do like

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a defund the police movement on open source developers,

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what you actually introduce is you introduce a situation where

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they become more desperate and they'll take questionable funding, right? Like the concern

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that, you know, maybe they're getting influenced by certain for-profit companies and stuff like

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that. Like to me, that concern becomes, if you remove independent organizations like OpenSats

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that separates the donors from the actual grants,

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then the result you get is the situation we had.

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You get a situation where like a random for-profit company

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is like paying core devs like $60,000 directly

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and says like, merge the things that I want to see.

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So to me,

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I think that we were probably in a way worse position

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four years ago, five years ago,

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in terms of how these open source contributors were getting funding

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because they were getting funding like directly from exchanges and stuff.

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And since then, we've seen HRF do their dev funding.

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We've seen OpenSats do the dev funding.

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So they have more diverse independent options available to them,

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and I think that's a pretty big win.

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But yeah, I'm just glad that people are talking about it publicly

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and that it's not happening behind closed doors.

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I kind of have two questions on that subject.

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So one's a little bit unfair, or maybe it's not.

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You since have talked to Saylor, right?

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00:17:31,948 --> 00:17:33,049
Yeah, we're actually on good terms.

241
00:17:33,529 --> 00:17:33,689
Yeah.

242
00:17:34,149 --> 00:17:35,508
So what do you think his standpoint is?

243
00:17:35,669 --> 00:17:40,369
And he wasn't offended that I posted those Nostro posts.

244
00:17:41,429 --> 00:17:45,809
Is he just a big believer that paper Bitcoin is the best way to scale Bitcoin?

245
00:17:45,809 --> 00:17:55,988
look i mean obviously uh he is uh a massive holder of bitcoin both personally and with his

246
00:17:55,988 --> 00:18:01,029
company right so like he does have very strong incentive to see bitcoin succeed i mean that's

247
00:18:01,029 --> 00:18:04,988
one of the cool parts about bitcoin right is that anyone who owns bitcoin is aligned

248
00:18:04,988 --> 00:18:12,329
and wanting to see bitcoin succeed um i think it was actually kind of interesting i did an

249
00:18:12,329 --> 00:18:18,789
interview with him at the park, like right over there. Um, a couple months after all of that.

250
00:18:19,609 --> 00:18:28,269
And it was like a breaking bread kind of thing. Um, and I asked him specifically about,

251
00:18:29,189 --> 00:18:35,089
well, first of all, he only had like 40 minutes and, uh, which means I get like four questions,

252
00:18:35,389 --> 00:18:41,968
like three questions. Cause he's, he, he always has very long answers. Um, but I asked him about

253
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Bitcoin used as money.

254
00:18:45,129 --> 00:18:46,728
And I was actually kind of surprised.

255
00:18:46,849 --> 00:18:47,748
He said that

256
00:18:47,748 --> 00:18:53,968
the main thing that he thinks is holding back

257
00:18:53,968 --> 00:18:55,689
is actually like U.S. tax policy,

258
00:18:55,889 --> 00:18:56,968
which is interesting

259
00:18:56,968 --> 00:18:58,169
because I think a lot of people

260
00:18:58,169 --> 00:19:01,289
like assume that he just doesn't think

261
00:19:01,289 --> 00:19:04,089
people should or will spend Bitcoin.

262
00:19:05,488 --> 00:19:09,349
But if it's just a tax policy argument,

263
00:19:10,049 --> 00:19:10,909
then I think

264
00:19:10,909 --> 00:19:17,829
like people are more aligned there than, than people give them credit for.

265
00:19:19,049 --> 00:19:27,728
Um, because I mean, they, the, the tax policy specifically cap gains is like, it's just,

266
00:19:27,829 --> 00:19:32,448
it adds such a mental burden, adds such mental friction that it does hold back. I think it

267
00:19:32,448 --> 00:19:36,269
holds back adoption in a lot of ways, but I think also at the same time, like, uh,

268
00:19:36,269 --> 00:19:38,589
it's just an order of operations thing.

269
00:19:38,669 --> 00:19:43,109
Like I think it's going to take time for people to first end up with all their

270
00:19:43,109 --> 00:19:43,929
savings in Bitcoin.

271
00:19:43,929 --> 00:19:45,809
And then once all your savings is in Bitcoin,

272
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:48,429
it's actually easier to spend Bitcoin than spend dollars.

273
00:19:49,309 --> 00:19:50,769
Because if you're spending dollars,

274
00:19:50,829 --> 00:19:55,369
it means you have to actually sell the Bitcoin first to spend in dollars.

275
00:19:56,129 --> 00:20:01,069
So first Bitcoin is used primarily as savings.

276
00:20:02,149 --> 00:20:05,389
Then people start spending it later.

277
00:20:05,389 --> 00:20:16,789
And I think good money, it's weird because with Bitcoin, it's always been like the spend camp and then like the save camp because like people on social media like to be in like tribes.

278
00:20:17,909 --> 00:20:21,129
But you really, for good money, you need both.

279
00:20:21,309 --> 00:20:25,968
Like because if you can't spend your savings without permission, then you have no value there.

280
00:20:27,589 --> 00:20:28,988
It's basically not your money.

281
00:20:29,629 --> 00:20:32,708
So you need to be able to do both and they both work hand in hand together.

282
00:20:32,708 --> 00:20:41,748
so you think sailors being empathetic to people he understands they they can't afford their taxes

283
00:20:41,748 --> 00:20:49,609
and that bitcoin's a savings vehicle to be able to afford your taxes and then if you spend your

284
00:20:49,609 --> 00:20:55,488
bitcoin then you have to pay a jewish accountant to help you figure out how to be able to afford

285
00:20:55,488 --> 00:21:01,208
your taxes and it's just expense after expense that's his that's his no i don't think i don't

286
00:21:01,208 --> 00:21:06,129
think the problem with tax policy is not affording it because you're only paying taxes on profit,

287
00:21:06,748 --> 00:21:11,429
right? Like the way cap gains works is if you're paying, you're paying a percentage,

288
00:21:11,429 --> 00:21:16,069
if in America it's long-term cap gains, I think on the federal level is like 20%,

289
00:21:16,069 --> 00:21:22,508
but it's a percentage of, of, of your purchasing power increase. So you're literally only paying

290
00:21:22,508 --> 00:21:28,089
cap gains if Bitcoin increases in purchasing power, which it, which it does. So, so in that

291
00:21:28,089 --> 00:21:33,349
respect like obviously you can afford it the problem is just the mental burden of of like

292
00:21:33,349 --> 00:21:40,269
actually um like keeping track of it and reporting it and whatnot i think that's the

293
00:21:40,269 --> 00:21:47,869
that you can afford it as long as you don't spend it before next april and according to like you

294
00:21:47,869 --> 00:21:53,049
know this is just speculation you're not the one tweeting from the 1031 twitter account

295
00:21:53,049 --> 00:21:59,948
but according to that account bitcoin is going much higher it's a very high signal account i

296
00:21:59,948 --> 00:22:03,909
don't know if you've noticed there's a lot of bullshit that's going on twitter right now but

297
00:22:03,909 --> 00:22:09,809
um if you want the signal between signal through the noise the 1031 twitter account is really

298
00:22:09,809 --> 00:22:16,789
it's really there for the plebs what about so nostor we can get into this a little bit too

299
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:20,769
because it seems like nostor is kind of going through a little bit of a bear mark and all the

300
00:22:20,769 --> 00:22:22,889
drama is on X.

301
00:22:23,329 --> 00:22:24,748
So everybody wants to go to where

302
00:22:24,748 --> 00:22:26,849
the drama is. You got Pleds who are

303
00:22:26,849 --> 00:22:28,728
fleeing Noster, going to

304
00:22:28,728 --> 00:22:30,169
X. And then

305
00:22:30,169 --> 00:22:32,248
you got Marty.

306
00:22:32,708 --> 00:22:34,589
What's it like going through this fourth

307
00:22:34,589 --> 00:22:35,649
turning, all this drama?

308
00:22:36,708 --> 00:22:38,649
Marty isn't so much on Noster,

309
00:22:38,769 --> 00:22:40,609
but I feel like he's probably spending 40

310
00:22:40,609 --> 00:22:42,448
hours per week reading Truth Social.

311
00:22:42,629 --> 00:22:44,769
How do you pull Marty back from Truth Social

312
00:22:44,769 --> 00:22:46,569
and put on a good

313
00:22:46,569 --> 00:22:48,669
podcast and do good work

314
00:22:48,669 --> 00:23:02,917
when everybody is just glued to the drama on the timeline Including ostriches who were going to axe Like how do you get them back how do you get the drama we talked slander might come to nostril when uh he was

315
00:23:02,917 --> 00:23:08,257
crashing out over paid for bitcoin summer he getting the last he he he thought it was an

316
00:23:08,257 --> 00:23:13,657
active chamber you got american hodl he's doing he's posting vlogs vlogs how do you how do you

317
00:23:13,657 --> 00:23:23,057
draw the the plebs back to nostril um first of all you guys i think you guys are the main reason

318
00:23:23,057 --> 00:23:29,537
that you like you like bullied predator off of x and then you brought paper bitcoin summer over to

319
00:23:29,537 --> 00:23:34,777
nostril and then bullied him back to x so that that was all and you guys that i disagree with

320
00:23:34,777 --> 00:23:41,657
that i disagree no platter went to nostril and he realized that it was really difficult to delete

321
00:23:41,657 --> 00:23:47,897
his post so then he left yeah i think um that's something that's really difficult for influencers

322
00:23:47,897 --> 00:23:54,177
on nostr is that is the the no deletes so you have to actually stand behind what you say and

323
00:23:54,177 --> 00:23:58,417
then the other thing is no blocks like you can mute people but you can't restrict your replies

324
00:23:58,417 --> 00:24:04,417
and i think you know a lot of influencers like the safe space of being able to restrict who can

325
00:24:04,417 --> 00:24:13,277
reply to them and stop the reply guys. So, but to me, that's a feature, not a bug. And I think

326
00:24:13,277 --> 00:24:19,597
over time, as Nostra adoption increases, the fact that people can't restrict replies will just mean

327
00:24:19,597 --> 00:24:27,197
that we'll have more honest discourse will happen. You know, I think Nostra is still incredibly early.

328
00:24:28,297 --> 00:24:32,277
I think adoption is going pretty well. I think we're just starting to get to the point where

329
00:24:32,277 --> 00:24:36,777
like the apps are stable enough, right? Specifically Primal is getting to a really

330
00:24:36,777 --> 00:24:43,717
stable point. And I've been heavily involved in building that out. Um, so I'm pretty happy. I'm,

331
00:24:43,877 --> 00:24:49,377
I'm pretty happy with where we currently stand in terms of, uh, Nostra adoption. It is pretty

332
00:24:49,377 --> 00:24:53,457
disappointing that we don't have more drama. I think it's funny that a lot of people say,

333
00:24:53,457 --> 00:25:00,197
um, there's too much Bitcoiners on Nostra. It's like, to me, it's like, we don't have enough.

334
00:25:00,197 --> 00:25:05,717
Like if you're going to fight, if Bitcoiners are going to fight, it'd be great if they fought on Nostra instead of X.

335
00:25:06,617 --> 00:25:08,317
But I think it's just going to be a grind thing.

336
00:25:08,397 --> 00:25:09,377
Like I think it's a time thing.

337
00:25:09,457 --> 00:25:16,637
I don't think Nostra is inevitable, but I think it is something that would be a massive value add to society if it does succeed.

338
00:25:18,857 --> 00:25:24,057
And so there's a bunch of us that are going to try and bootstrap it and try and make it happen.

339
00:25:24,057 --> 00:25:30,057
I think the live streaming with Zapp specifically is a nice little edge that we have.

340
00:25:30,197 --> 00:25:34,657
um and then you mentioned American HODL like I don't think he gets enough credit for

341
00:25:34,657 --> 00:25:44,257
um being active and and uh posting good shit over there he's like he makes some really

342
00:25:44,257 --> 00:25:51,877
he makes some really great videos uh the Bitcoin treasury video the 80s theme I thought that was

343
00:25:51,877 --> 00:25:59,637
fantastic and that was really that video was a a big uh influence and like a inspiration for me

344
00:25:59,637 --> 00:26:06,517
or for not me, but me as well as the others who really were talking about paper Bitcoin summer and

345
00:26:06,517 --> 00:26:12,257
this big, um, this big event that it was. And I want to clarify, we were not wholly in Twitter

346
00:26:12,257 --> 00:26:18,477
or a planet or what we were doing. We was, we were, we were player was trying to avoid us.

347
00:26:18,477 --> 00:26:22,937
And we wanted him to know that he was invited to paper Bitcoin summer. And there was nowhere

348
00:26:22,937 --> 00:26:28,877
that he could hide where we wouldn't find him and let him know that we wanted him to join us.

349
00:26:28,877 --> 00:26:45,177
And I think you make a good point about Noster allowed people don't like the ability to restrict the two ways communication that people be able to like a lot of people do want to avoid Shinobi coming into the replies to call them retarded.

350
00:26:45,577 --> 00:26:52,397
And I my advice is if you want people to stop calling you retarded, you have to stop being retarded.

351
00:26:52,557 --> 00:26:56,057
And I think that Noster is a place where you learn that more quickly.

352
00:26:56,057 --> 00:26:57,317
You get that feedback.

353
00:26:57,457 --> 00:26:59,317
You can't hide from the truth.

354
00:26:59,857 --> 00:27:01,297
In Austria, you can't hide from the truth.

355
00:27:01,377 --> 00:27:05,617
And I think that the problem, and we get back to it, is you can't delete your tweets.

356
00:27:06,197 --> 00:27:09,897
Well, cancel culture just kind of flipped sides a week ago.

357
00:27:10,177 --> 00:27:15,377
And now there's a lot of people used to be safe to post a white saying that Trump's meme

358
00:27:15,377 --> 00:27:16,437
coin was a shit coin.

359
00:27:16,957 --> 00:27:18,177
And now you should be sued for it.

360
00:27:18,377 --> 00:27:20,677
And now people are trying to delete those tweets.

361
00:27:20,957 --> 00:27:24,237
And it's just a different, it's a different mindset.

362
00:27:26,057 --> 00:27:29,957
would you consider

363
00:27:29,957 --> 00:27:31,137
Plutterter an influencer?

364
00:27:32,137 --> 00:27:32,937
Oh, 100%.

365
00:27:32,937 --> 00:27:34,537
Would you not?

366
00:27:37,677 --> 00:27:39,037
I don't know what I call it.

367
00:27:39,037 --> 00:27:42,437
He thinks he's a journalist, but...

368
00:27:42,437 --> 00:27:43,617
Well, in Nafsi Madness,

369
00:27:43,737 --> 00:27:46,397
he was in the influencer bracket.

370
00:27:46,397 --> 00:27:47,397
So...

371
00:27:47,397 --> 00:27:53,397
I think he plays an important role

372
00:27:53,397 --> 00:27:55,637
in the ecosystem

373
00:27:55,637 --> 00:28:01,297
and there is a lot of groupthink and there's, you know,

374
00:28:03,157 --> 00:28:06,917
I mean, he definitely provides a unique perspective, right,

375
00:28:07,077 --> 00:28:11,977
that most people aren't highlighting in a lot of ways.

376
00:28:11,977 --> 00:28:19,737
I will say that at one point he, like,

377
00:28:19,737 --> 00:28:32,837
he posted about how 1031 was evil for dumping, uh, fold stock on retail, um, and posted like a

378
00:28:32,837 --> 00:28:39,557
public document because publicly traded companies have to release like, you know,

379
00:28:39,557 --> 00:28:46,757
all sorts of documentation. And the public document he posted was, uh, about a credit

380
00:28:46,757 --> 00:28:52,117
deal that we set up for fold where they for debt so that they could buy bitcoin and put it on the

381
00:28:52,117 --> 00:29:00,597
balance sheet and we hadn't sold any fold stock i was i i believe we still haven't uh and so the 1031

382
00:29:00,597 --> 00:29:07,477
intern uh let him know you know what the facts of the situation were there and he just like

383
00:29:07,477 --> 00:29:12,837
completely ignored it and then it wasn't like oh i'm wrong i think there's a there's a tendency of

384
00:29:12,837 --> 00:29:20,757
people to not admit when they were wrong um or don't know something um and i think it's fine to

385
00:29:20,757 --> 00:29:28,037
be wrong i think but you should own it um you know i've been wrong plenty of times but it's important

386
00:29:28,037 --> 00:29:37,637
to own it it's a good point it's a good point yeah let's let's talk about i wanted to circle back to

387
00:29:37,637 --> 00:29:48,277
open sense yeah so what what type of purity test do you issue when you're uh evaluating developers

388
00:29:48,277 --> 00:29:54,917
that you're funding so i mean that's the other thing that's you know and and maybe we try and be

389
00:29:54,917 --> 00:29:59,557
as transparent as possible i think we're probably one of the most transparent charities in the world

390
00:29:59,557 --> 00:30:07,877
period um and so all of our grants are public the the who we provide grants to we're provide

391
00:30:07,877 --> 00:30:15,797
we've provided over 200 grants um throughout our existence we don't say the amounts because

392
00:30:15,797 --> 00:30:25,157
it's a balancing act like we don't want to you know basically dox people's you know how much

393
00:30:25,157 --> 00:30:27,117
much Bitcoin they might have or might be getting.

394
00:30:28,837 --> 00:30:30,197
So this has been a balancing act.

395
00:30:30,257 --> 00:30:34,617
And I will say like what we've like probably provided nearly 250 grants.

396
00:30:35,837 --> 00:30:37,797
A lot of them are year long grants.

397
00:30:38,437 --> 00:30:41,797
And I don't think a single grant recipient has, they've, they're will,

398
00:30:41,917 --> 00:30:46,857
they're obviously completely allowed to tell people how much they make.

399
00:30:47,657 --> 00:30:49,777
And none of them have chosen to do that.

400
00:30:49,857 --> 00:30:50,557
So like, it's very,

401
00:30:50,617 --> 00:30:54,037
it's very obvious to me that grant recipients do not want amounts to be known.

402
00:30:55,157 --> 00:31:01,237
Um, but, uh, we, and so like when people say like, oh, like open session, it'd be funding

403
00:31:01,237 --> 00:31:02,697
commie devs or this or that.

404
00:31:02,737 --> 00:31:05,897
It's like, okay, well, which ones are the commies and which ones are the ones we're

405
00:31:05,897 --> 00:31:06,317
funding?

406
00:31:06,497 --> 00:31:08,777
And no one ever gives me an answer on that.

407
00:31:09,017 --> 00:31:10,537
Like they never tell me that.

408
00:31:10,677 --> 00:31:17,317
I will say that, uh, the overwhelming majority of stuff we fund is actually like not protocol

409
00:31:17,317 --> 00:31:17,837
stuff.

410
00:31:18,697 --> 00:31:21,197
Uh, we fund a few core developers.

411
00:31:21,197 --> 00:31:26,517
I think we fund one maintainer

412
00:31:26,517 --> 00:31:27,637
Which ones?

413
00:31:27,857 --> 00:31:28,617
Just out of curiosity

414
00:31:28,617 --> 00:31:29,917
Fanquake

415
00:31:29,917 --> 00:31:34,837
I think we fund him

416
00:31:34,837 --> 00:31:36,277
I think we partially fund him

417
00:31:36,277 --> 00:31:38,697
And another organization partially funds him

418
00:31:38,697 --> 00:31:42,457
I was hoping you'd say Gloria

419
00:31:42,457 --> 00:31:44,417
No, we don't fund Gloria

420
00:31:44,417 --> 00:31:46,117
But I, like

421
00:31:46,117 --> 00:31:50,157
The whole design of OpenSats

422
00:31:50,157 --> 00:31:55,597
was based on me seeing, us seeing,

423
00:31:56,257 --> 00:31:59,677
you know, inefficient, corrupt charity organizations

424
00:31:59,677 --> 00:32:00,437
in the past.

425
00:32:00,757 --> 00:32:03,057
So we're 100% passed through by design.

426
00:32:03,497 --> 00:32:04,977
The board doesn't get paid anything.

427
00:32:08,117 --> 00:32:13,317
And we have a nine-person board that's eight right now

428
00:32:13,317 --> 00:32:17,217
because Lisa stepped away earlier this year.

429
00:32:17,277 --> 00:32:18,197
So we need to replace her.

430
00:32:18,197 --> 00:32:20,817
but we have a nine person board that doesn't get paid.

431
00:32:21,317 --> 00:32:24,657
And then every grant basically comes in, we get an app

432
00:32:25,957 --> 00:32:28,197
and then it comes into this private GitHub repo.

433
00:32:28,957 --> 00:32:32,437
And then the board members review it underneath

434
00:32:33,277 --> 00:32:37,117
and then we all vote underneath as well.

435
00:32:37,117 --> 00:32:41,357
And so like if a grant gets a simple majority, gets five votes,

436
00:32:41,357 --> 00:32:42,577
then it gets approved.

437
00:32:42,577 --> 00:32:47,657
So no single board member can force through grant applications.

438
00:32:47,657 --> 00:32:50,377
no single board member can block those things.

439
00:32:52,477 --> 00:32:59,257
And as a result, I think it's a more merit-based process

440
00:32:59,257 --> 00:33:03,237
than a lot of other organizations.

441
00:33:03,937 --> 00:33:06,577
And what's cool there, it means like those votes aren't public

442
00:33:06,577 --> 00:33:08,497
because I also don't think votes should be public

443
00:33:08,497 --> 00:33:11,297
because if votes are public, then you could pressure board members

444
00:33:11,297 --> 00:33:16,257
and do like social media mobs and stuff to get them to vote one way or the other.

445
00:33:16,257 --> 00:33:36,397
So that's why those votes aren't public. But what it means is we have a full audit trail over every review process and every vote. So if we ever needed to release like an audit trail of why someone got a grant and how much they were getting and all that stuff, like we have all of those records, which I think is pretty cool.

446
00:33:36,397 --> 00:33:39,637
and then we have a review process

447
00:33:39,637 --> 00:33:41,977
so usually like people

448
00:33:41,977 --> 00:33:43,857
have one year grants

449
00:33:43,857 --> 00:33:45,197
we have long term support grants

450
00:33:45,197 --> 00:33:47,737
that are two years

451
00:33:47,737 --> 00:33:50,397
but then they're

452
00:33:50,397 --> 00:33:52,897
they're fixed in fiat

453
00:33:52,897 --> 00:33:55,617
on a yearly basis

454
00:33:55,617 --> 00:33:57,117
and then they're paid out monthly

455
00:33:57,117 --> 00:33:58,437
in Bitcoin

456
00:33:58,437 --> 00:34:01,117
so like the Bitcoin exchange rate is fluctuating

457
00:34:01,117 --> 00:34:02,757
but we send out about a million dollars

458
00:34:02,757 --> 00:34:05,077
of the Bitcoin every month

459
00:34:05,077 --> 00:34:08,917
to about 200 grant recipients in 40 plus countries.

460
00:34:09,757 --> 00:34:13,037
And it's pretty fucking cool to see it all kind of come together.

461
00:34:13,637 --> 00:34:25,206
I mean the BidAx project we were the original funders of the BidAx project I think that has been a massive success I think we seen a lot of success with CashU We one of the largest funders at BTC Pay Server

462
00:34:28,246 --> 00:34:30,905
And I think, you know, if you want to supercharge,

463
00:34:30,905 --> 00:34:33,246
I think open source development is a key piece of,

464
00:34:33,246 --> 00:34:35,386
you know, freedom in the digital age

465
00:34:35,386 --> 00:34:37,046
because it's not controlled by any individual.

466
00:34:37,046 --> 00:34:38,746
It's not controlled by a company.

467
00:34:39,966 --> 00:34:41,766
And if you want to supercharge that,

468
00:34:41,766 --> 00:34:45,346
it makes sense to me that you support developers

469
00:34:45,346 --> 00:34:46,986
so that they can work full time on this stuff

470
00:34:46,986 --> 00:34:49,726
instead of, you know, making it a hobby project on the side.

471
00:34:50,146 --> 00:34:53,646
Like, would these projects, you know, still happen?

472
00:34:53,986 --> 00:34:54,425
Probably.

473
00:34:54,766 --> 00:34:55,866
Would they take longer?

474
00:34:56,026 --> 00:34:56,266
Yeah.

475
00:34:56,446 --> 00:34:57,286
Like, is life short?

476
00:34:57,405 --> 00:35:01,786
Like, would I rather have Freedom Tools operating in two years

477
00:35:01,786 --> 00:35:03,026
than five years or 10 years?

478
00:35:03,066 --> 00:35:03,786
Yeah, 100%.

479
00:35:03,786 --> 00:35:05,726
Like, that's better for myself.

480
00:35:05,826 --> 00:35:06,646
That's better for everyone.

481
00:35:06,726 --> 00:35:07,606
It's better for our children.

482
00:35:08,905 --> 00:35:11,925
So that's why OpenSats exists, to supercharge it,

483
00:35:11,925 --> 00:35:14,966
but also provide, you know, this funding

484
00:35:14,966 --> 00:35:20,566
in a relatively merit-based, independent, transparent way as much as possible.

485
00:35:21,726 --> 00:35:25,786
Do you think our core devs who are funded by OpenSats,

486
00:35:26,086 --> 00:35:27,886
are they allowed to have sex?

487
00:35:28,066 --> 00:35:31,606
Or is it like a no-ask, don't-ask, don't-tell situation?

488
00:35:31,826 --> 00:35:34,326
Do you have a policy at all in their contracts?

489
00:35:35,466 --> 00:35:42,046
No, their sex life is completely independent from our review process.

490
00:35:42,046 --> 00:35:44,486
I mean look the cool part

491
00:35:44,486 --> 00:35:46,826
the cool part about open source stuff is you actually

492
00:35:46,826 --> 00:35:48,826
have like a pretty

493
00:35:48,826 --> 00:35:50,806
a relatively objective like

494
00:35:50,806 --> 00:35:52,726
proof of work track record

495
00:35:52,726 --> 00:35:53,866
for a lot of these developers

496
00:35:53,866 --> 00:35:56,786
so you can see like

497
00:35:56,786 --> 00:35:59,126
if they're actually doing things

498
00:35:59,126 --> 00:36:00,466
or if they're not

499
00:36:00,466 --> 00:36:03,186
and

500
00:36:03,186 --> 00:36:04,966
they usually

501
00:36:04,966 --> 00:36:06,286
provide like

502
00:36:06,286 --> 00:36:08,746
a roadmap of what they

503
00:36:08,746 --> 00:36:09,986
tend to work on

504
00:36:09,986 --> 00:36:12,766
and then when they give us reports

505
00:36:12,766 --> 00:36:14,246
when they give us the quarterly reports

506
00:36:14,246 --> 00:36:15,726
they say what they got done

507
00:36:15,726 --> 00:36:17,686
and where they currently stand

508
00:36:17,686 --> 00:36:20,886
but we're relatively loose about it

509
00:36:20,886 --> 00:36:21,326
like if

510
00:36:21,326 --> 00:36:26,666
we see situations where

511
00:36:26,666 --> 00:36:28,546
someone maybe they're doing

512
00:36:28,546 --> 00:36:30,246
they're outside of protocol work

513
00:36:30,246 --> 00:36:32,425
they're making a Bitcoin wallet or something

514
00:36:32,425 --> 00:36:34,026
like we have Cove wallet

515
00:36:34,026 --> 00:36:38,026
which we've been funding

516
00:36:38,026 --> 00:36:40,886
which is a self-custody mobile-based wallet.

517
00:36:41,706 --> 00:36:44,666
But let's say, for instance, he says in his roadmap

518
00:36:44,666 --> 00:36:46,206
he's going to release an iOS wallet,

519
00:36:46,326 --> 00:36:48,766
and then he decides to pivot, and he's like,

520
00:36:48,826 --> 00:36:50,326
no, the app store is too difficult.

521
00:36:50,566 --> 00:36:52,925
I'm just going to release on Android or web or something like that.

522
00:36:52,966 --> 00:36:54,766
And he says in a report, that's completely fine.

523
00:36:55,066 --> 00:36:55,886
We're not going to be like,

524
00:36:56,006 --> 00:36:58,346
you said you were going to have an iOS wallet,

525
00:36:58,446 --> 00:36:59,866
and now you don't have an iOS wallet.

526
00:37:02,386 --> 00:37:04,726
So we're relatively loose about it,

527
00:37:04,726 --> 00:37:10,546
But like the key is like, like, don't just like take the money and do nothing.

528
00:37:13,925 --> 00:37:16,506
You know, just like fuck off and go on vacation or something.

529
00:37:16,626 --> 00:37:22,686
And we've actually only had, maybe there's like nine grants that we've paused in the review process.

530
00:37:22,986 --> 00:37:27,266
And the overwhelming majority of them actually send back the Bitcoin, which is kind of crazy.

531
00:37:27,726 --> 00:37:30,186
Because like, obviously it's Bitcoin, we can't call it back.

532
00:37:32,566 --> 00:37:34,526
But they like feel bad when they send it back.

533
00:37:34,526 --> 00:37:36,446
They're like, oh, like I had a family issue or something.

534
00:37:36,566 --> 00:37:37,606
I'm just going to send it back.

535
00:37:38,286 --> 00:37:39,386
Maybe that's first.

536
00:37:40,246 --> 00:37:40,646
Yeah.

537
00:37:41,166 --> 00:37:42,026
They're not prime trust.

538
00:37:42,126 --> 00:37:42,266
No.

539
00:37:43,266 --> 00:37:51,526
Maybe that's the compromise, though, to all this drama on Twitter is to pay debts not to do any of that.

540
00:37:52,446 --> 00:37:53,546
Maybe that's what we have to do.

541
00:37:53,606 --> 00:37:57,086
It's like pay all these debts to not tinker with Bitcoin.

542
00:37:57,266 --> 00:37:58,566
Maybe that's what some people want.

543
00:37:58,566 --> 00:38:11,686
i mean if if uh if if the goal is to get developers that you don't want to work on bitcoin to stop

544
00:38:11,686 --> 00:38:16,686
working on bitcoin then yeah that actually probably would be pretty effective it'd be just

545
00:38:16,686 --> 00:38:21,606
like sailor's got plenty of money sailor doesn't want anybody to tinker with bitcoin he can just

546
00:38:21,606 --> 00:38:26,966
pay them to stay away everybody who knows how to code just pay them to not tinker with bitcoin

547
00:38:26,966 --> 00:38:29,726
And the solution is that it's like the people who don't like the spam.

548
00:38:29,726 --> 00:38:33,366
It's like, then just buy block space and price out the spam.

549
00:38:34,026 --> 00:38:37,266
Buy off the developers to not code.

550
00:38:37,646 --> 00:38:40,826
I think that is maybe that's what we need to tell Saylor to do.

551
00:38:42,606 --> 00:38:43,106
Yeah, I mean.

552
00:38:45,126 --> 00:38:50,166
Look, I jokes aside, like I think.

553
00:38:51,546 --> 00:38:56,346
There's a lot of maintenance and like efficiency improvements that can be done on Bitcoin without protocol changes.

554
00:38:56,966 --> 00:39:03,606
Um, I think, uh, actually like the knots people mostly agree with this.

555
00:39:03,606 --> 00:39:06,986
Cause like Luke is constantly shipping updates and making his own tweaks.

556
00:39:07,946 --> 00:39:13,406
Um, but if you believe that there isn't, and you believe that we don't need any, you know,

557
00:39:13,406 --> 00:39:17,986
more maintenance work or, or like efficiency gains and stuff like that.

558
00:39:18,166 --> 00:39:22,726
Um, then like, why are people arguing about running knots?

559
00:39:22,726 --> 00:39:28,246
Like just run v28 forever, v29 forever, not upgrade.

560
00:39:29,206 --> 00:39:30,446
You don't need the developers.

561
00:39:30,746 --> 00:39:31,646
Like you can just do that.

562
00:39:32,666 --> 00:39:45,186
But I think everyone is implicitly saying like, no, that's not the case because that's why they, you know, that's why they want a separate, well-reviewed, maintained implementation and have more choice going forward.

563
00:39:45,226 --> 00:39:48,446
Because if that wasn't the case, then you could just always run the old one.

564
00:39:48,446 --> 00:39:52,966
I will say that on the consensus stuff, like actual soft forks,

565
00:39:53,066 --> 00:39:58,846
I think that ship has mostly sailed, like, except for a few,

566
00:39:59,446 --> 00:40:02,406
maybe very urgent things that have, like,

567
00:40:02,425 --> 00:40:06,386
if something urgent and absolutely necessary had to happen,

568
00:40:06,966 --> 00:40:09,846
we might see a soft fork in the future.

569
00:40:09,986 --> 00:40:13,106
But at least in the near, I don't think, like,

570
00:40:13,486 --> 00:40:16,686
these things like Covenants or anything that, like CTV or whatever,

571
00:40:16,686 --> 00:40:20,026
I don't think any of that's going to happen.

572
00:40:21,546 --> 00:40:25,386
And I think policy changes like how nodes relay transactions

573
00:40:25,386 --> 00:40:29,586
and stuff that are not consensus-based, you know,

574
00:40:29,646 --> 00:40:34,126
should be up to the node operator on how they want to run that.

575
00:40:34,666 --> 00:40:38,026
But it's like not, you know, it's not changing the protocol.

576
00:40:38,386 --> 00:40:41,166
So I think there's a little bit of a conflation between like

577
00:40:41,166 --> 00:40:45,946
bad changes to the protocol versus like how a node relays transactions

578
00:40:45,946 --> 00:40:48,046
and what a node keeps in its mempool.

579
00:40:50,425 --> 00:40:52,846
And I actually, I would just say, like, in general,

580
00:40:52,946 --> 00:40:58,066
I lean more on the sailor side in terms of,

581
00:40:58,066 --> 00:41:02,166
first of all, like, breaking changes to Bitcoin,

582
00:41:02,326 --> 00:41:06,706
which would be a hard fork, but also, like, on the soft fork side.

583
00:41:06,706 --> 00:41:09,486
Like, I think we should be very, very conservative

584
00:41:09,486 --> 00:41:13,886
if there are any soft forks going forward to Bitcoin.

585
00:41:13,886 --> 00:41:17,006
and it should only be when it's absolutely necessary.

586
00:41:20,386 --> 00:41:26,266
Like there is a concern that you could have a change

587
00:41:26,266 --> 00:41:27,166
that's a bad change.

588
00:41:28,466 --> 00:41:30,346
And so Bitcoin is working right now.

589
00:41:30,346 --> 00:41:32,986
It is the base of a global financial system.

590
00:41:34,346 --> 00:41:37,126
And my entire family, my family relies on it.

591
00:41:37,626 --> 00:41:39,026
My businesses rely on it.

592
00:41:39,206 --> 00:41:40,726
Like my whole life relies on Bitcoin.

593
00:41:41,346 --> 00:41:43,406
Like I really don't want to fuck it up.

594
00:41:43,886 --> 00:41:49,086
i don't want developers to it up and so everyone needs to be as conservative as possible

595
00:41:50,526 --> 00:41:58,206
do you think that uh so there's this growing crowd of people that say that there's too many bitcoin

596
00:41:58,206 --> 00:42:06,286
podcasts do you think that the proponents of that believe that because there's too diverse of

597
00:42:06,286 --> 00:42:12,286
opinions they want protocol changes like ctv and that having too many podcasters with different

598
00:42:12,286 --> 00:42:13,966
opinions cause problems for that?

599
00:42:14,966 --> 00:42:16,286
I mean, I think the problem

600
00:42:16,286 --> 00:42:18,206
on the Bitcoin podcast side is

601
00:42:18,206 --> 00:42:20,586
we don't have enough podcasts.

602
00:42:21,086 --> 00:42:22,146
I think it's

603
00:42:22,146 --> 00:42:25,586
there's a lot of group think out there.

604
00:42:25,726 --> 00:42:27,486
There's not a lot of independent opinions.

605
00:42:28,386 --> 00:42:30,346
I think people are more or less

606
00:42:30,346 --> 00:42:32,506
scared to say how they actually feel

607
00:42:32,506 --> 00:42:34,506
or actually haven't been able to do

608
00:42:34,506 --> 00:42:36,626
the work to actually have their own opinion.

609
00:42:38,166 --> 00:42:40,566
And usually they just repeat whatever their sponsors

610
00:42:40,566 --> 00:42:42,506
tell them to think.

611
00:42:43,586 --> 00:42:45,146
So I would like to actually see more.

612
00:42:45,286 --> 00:42:48,866
I think more education is good in general.

613
00:42:49,366 --> 00:42:52,746
I think more tools is better in general.

614
00:42:53,646 --> 00:42:56,046
You know, I think more Bitcoin companies

615
00:42:56,046 --> 00:42:56,966
is better in general.

616
00:42:57,126 --> 00:42:59,166
I think more open source Bitcoin projects

617
00:42:59,166 --> 00:43:00,126
is better in general.

618
00:43:01,326 --> 00:43:02,986
And we just need more, more, more.

619
00:43:04,726 --> 00:43:06,566
And that's just a net win for everybody.

620
00:43:06,566 --> 00:43:08,506
And so how do you grow that pie?

621
00:43:10,566 --> 00:43:15,566
How do you make it more, uh, accessible?

622
00:43:16,446 --> 00:43:18,126
I think I've got an easy answer to that.

623
00:43:18,166 --> 00:43:22,266
Uh, I think open shouts should be looking at funding open source

624
00:43:22,266 --> 00:43:24,006
podcasting in general.

625
00:43:25,806 --> 00:43:31,806
I, um, we did, we were funding education for a bit, um, which we pulled back on.

626
00:43:32,806 --> 00:43:37,886
Uh, so like technically that kind of kind of fall into that, uh, field.

627
00:43:37,886 --> 00:43:55,046
I will say that the cool part about OpenSATs funding developers is, like I said, open source developers specifically have like a verifiable track record that you can base your grant decisions on, right?

628
00:43:55,086 --> 00:44:02,666
Like you actually have, you have commits and releases and projects that you can like actually like audit and look at and review.

629
00:44:02,666 --> 00:44:22,066
When you start funding things like education or we've seen some organizations fund so-called Bitcoin circular economies like a Bitcoin beach or something like that, it becomes much more subjective on if work is being done, how much progress is being made.

630
00:44:22,146 --> 00:44:23,306
So it becomes much more difficult.

631
00:44:23,306 --> 00:44:32,786
I mean, I think other organizations, it makes sense to me that other organizations, you know, could or maybe even should fund these things.

632
00:44:35,246 --> 00:44:37,006
Well, I'm thinking about it.

633
00:44:37,006 --> 00:44:41,766
I personally don't think OpenSAT should do all the things.

634
00:44:42,146 --> 00:44:45,166
And I want to see more organizations bloom in general.

635
00:44:45,406 --> 00:44:49,266
We've helped support multiple independent organizations

636
00:44:49,266 --> 00:44:54,246
that specialize in different aspects of Bitcoin.

637
00:44:54,925 --> 00:44:57,566
And we'd like to see a thousand flowers bloom.

638
00:44:57,726 --> 00:44:59,766
I don't want OpenSAT to be a single point of failure.

639
00:44:59,766 --> 00:45:02,086
The whole point of OpenSAT in the first place

640
00:45:02,086 --> 00:45:07,546
was to distribute what we saw as centralized funding

641
00:45:07,546 --> 00:45:10,146
in the first place and add another option to the table.

642
00:45:11,246 --> 00:45:13,506
So if you don't like how OpenSats does things,

643
00:45:14,046 --> 00:45:15,646
one of the most productive things you can do

644
00:45:15,646 --> 00:45:17,946
is actually launch another organization, I think.

645
00:45:18,746 --> 00:45:21,646
But then last but not least, on the value-for-value side,

646
00:45:21,646 --> 00:45:24,586
I think direct funding is the best

647
00:45:24,586 --> 00:45:27,106
because then you don't have a middleman in the first place.

648
00:45:28,886 --> 00:45:31,586
And I think this is another reason why

649
00:45:32,086 --> 00:45:50,306
specifically the work that's being done on Primal is so important because you, if you make the interface for supporting both creators and open source devs, much easier, much more like fun and almost gamified with that nice software.

650
00:45:50,354 --> 00:45:54,734
social signal built in with zaps, I think what you see is you see more people actually

651
00:45:54,734 --> 00:46:01,054
do it. I think a lot of people want to support their favorite podcast or their favorite open

652
00:46:01,054 --> 00:46:08,014
source project, but it can be difficult. And so then they get, so then the friction stops

653
00:46:08,014 --> 00:46:13,834
them from doing it. But like if you, for instance, like if Craig Raw posts like a new Sparrow

654
00:46:13,834 --> 00:46:20,794
wallet update like zap that shit you know so like that is strictly better than i'm getting funding

655
00:46:20,794 --> 00:46:26,394
from an open source like i think users should be funding to developers directly if they if they

656
00:46:26,394 --> 00:46:30,754
appreciate their work and same with podcasts other education what do you think about what do you

657
00:46:30,754 --> 00:46:34,994
think about like there's this company called lightning bounties where you can put a lightning

658
00:46:34,994 --> 00:46:42,214
payment bounty on a project or something on github if somebody actually goes implements it it gets

659
00:46:42,214 --> 00:46:47,914
merged into the to the project they automatically get a payout from it like what about using

660
00:46:47,914 --> 00:46:54,894
bounties in this way where it's like instead of me just funding you to go put whatever you want

661
00:46:54,894 --> 00:47:02,014
on bitcoin a very specific change a very specific fix a very specific feature and it goes on a

662
00:47:02,014 --> 00:47:08,254
bounty and if it ultimately makes it into a release then you can get paid for that instead of um you

663
00:47:08,254 --> 00:47:10,234
know, the alternative.

664
00:47:11,234 --> 00:47:12,354
I think bounties are interesting.

665
00:47:12,634 --> 00:47:15,454
I think it's also hard to do bounties effectively, though.

666
00:47:16,074 --> 00:47:19,414
So we've kind of shied away from it for the most part.

667
00:47:20,154 --> 00:47:24,734
I mean, the problem with bounties is, first of all, you have to make them very, very specific

668
00:47:24,734 --> 00:47:32,194
and objective, because if they're vague in any kind of way, there's going to be arguments

669
00:47:32,194 --> 00:47:36,774
on who qualifies for the bounty and who should get paid out and if someone should get paid

670
00:47:36,774 --> 00:47:37,354
out or not.

671
00:47:38,254 --> 00:47:44,954
The second problem you have is you have people do like the bare minimum amount of work to get a bounty.

672
00:47:47,494 --> 00:47:50,234
But I will say that we've had some successes.

673
00:47:50,234 --> 00:47:55,274
Like we did a bounty program in partnership with HRF and Strike a couple of years ago.

674
00:47:56,474 --> 00:48:03,194
And that was actually what birthed Cashew, which I think has been a pretty successful project and it's been pretty cool to watch.

675
00:48:03,194 --> 00:48:10,374
Like, uh, Cali basically saw the bounty go up and then like in three weeks released the first cash you wallet, um, and claimed a bounty.

676
00:48:11,194 --> 00:48:13,334
Um, so there's definitely success stories there.

677
00:48:13,674 --> 00:48:24,194
Um, but as someone who has, you know, had to debate about whether or not someone qualifies for a bounty or not, it gets, it can get really dicey.

678
00:48:25,114 --> 00:48:26,354
It's hard to do right.

679
00:48:27,354 --> 00:48:32,914
Um, I think, yeah, so you kind of flipped the tables on me.

680
00:48:32,914 --> 00:48:36,854
So it sounds like I care about open source podcasting.

681
00:48:36,934 --> 00:48:38,734
So I should endeavor on this.

682
00:48:38,814 --> 00:48:41,354
Like I'd like to see the bid acts of microphones.

683
00:48:42,734 --> 00:48:43,294
That's pretty cool.

684
00:48:43,774 --> 00:48:44,034
The,

685
00:48:44,034 --> 00:48:47,354
the sure SM seven B the one that you're using.

686
00:48:47,534 --> 00:48:47,814
Yeah.

687
00:48:48,134 --> 00:48:48,814
It's like the,

688
00:48:48,814 --> 00:48:50,954
the flagship of Bitcoin podcasters.

689
00:48:51,614 --> 00:48:53,894
And I think there's a centralization risk.

690
00:48:55,674 --> 00:48:57,114
Podcasting is just like mining.

691
00:48:58,594 --> 00:49:00,414
I think it's funny that,

692
00:49:00,414 --> 00:49:01,454
uh,

693
00:49:02,914 --> 00:49:05,574
I don't know.

694
00:49:05,694 --> 00:49:09,094
Like the cool part about podcasting today,

695
00:49:09,094 --> 00:49:09,974
in my opinion,

696
00:49:09,974 --> 00:49:11,194
is that you can just like,

697
00:49:11,974 --> 00:49:13,474
you know,

698
00:49:13,574 --> 00:49:14,734
use your laptop's mic

699
00:49:14,734 --> 00:49:17,234
and you don't have to go buy fancy equipment.

700
00:49:17,394 --> 00:49:18,834
Like just ship a podcast.

701
00:49:19,454 --> 00:49:20,594
Just like do it.

702
00:49:21,454 --> 00:49:22,734
You can iterate over time.

703
00:49:22,794 --> 00:49:24,534
Like I think people overthink a lot of things.

704
00:49:24,734 --> 00:49:26,954
I'm a big believer in just like diving in

705
00:49:26,954 --> 00:49:28,574
headfirst into things

706
00:49:28,574 --> 00:49:30,334
and figuring it out as you go.

707
00:49:32,914 --> 00:49:37,134
and I think with podcasting as well,

708
00:49:37,294 --> 00:49:40,574
that's a very valid thing.

709
00:49:40,874 --> 00:49:42,314
I also hate when people,

710
00:49:44,354 --> 00:49:47,734
like they sit on a show for like three weeks or four weeks.

711
00:49:49,014 --> 00:49:50,254
They just fucking release the thing.

712
00:49:51,754 --> 00:49:53,794
That's why all my shows are live, unedited,

713
00:49:54,094 --> 00:49:55,594
immediately ship it out.

714
00:49:57,134 --> 00:49:58,634
Things are moving too fast.

715
00:49:59,394 --> 00:50:01,594
Yeah, taking three weeks to edit your podcast,

716
00:50:01,594 --> 00:50:09,434
that was like a third turn or yeah it's not a fourth turning activity that's for sure i agree

717
00:50:09,434 --> 00:50:14,434
so one thing that i thought was really important i want to talk to you about

718
00:50:14,434 --> 00:50:17,834
before we get into the fountain base uh

719
00:50:17,834 --> 00:50:25,554
how close are we to the mandibles right now and did marty ben ever read the book he never read the

720
00:50:25,554 --> 00:50:33,114
book no you know I think what people so the mandibles to like the 10 people that don't know

721
00:50:33,114 --> 00:50:40,294
what it is is a book about hyperinflation in the United States I think one piece that people miss

722
00:50:40,294 --> 00:50:44,674
about it is that it's specifically based in New York so like you only see the New York City

723
00:50:44,674 --> 00:50:53,114
perspective for the most part without giving away too many spoilers but it makes sense to me that

724
00:50:53,114 --> 00:51:07,454
And as we see the institutions we rely on, even more trust get eroded for them and the dollar continuing to just bleed value.

725
00:51:10,974 --> 00:51:12,914
Inflation is just running away at this point.

726
00:51:13,614 --> 00:51:18,014
And it's not, you know, the numbers they give you on inflation are just absolutely bullshit.

727
00:51:18,014 --> 00:51:19,494
Like it's really double digits.

728
00:51:19,494 --> 00:51:24,594
and you can just see it from like the cost of groceries and everyday things like people aren't

729
00:51:24,594 --> 00:51:31,194
idiots um so I think that will happen and I think the question is what is the timing

730
00:51:31,194 --> 00:51:38,514
and now I think in mandibles specifically like she thought bitcoin was going to fail and in her

731
00:51:38,514 --> 00:51:44,894
defense I think she wrote she wrote the book almost 10 years ago um which it was probably

732
00:51:44,894 --> 00:51:48,714
more likely at that point that bitcoin could fail or would fail so I think in a world where

733
00:51:48,714 --> 00:51:55,894
we have Bitcoin and you have a, um, basically a seamless path to switching to better money,

734
00:51:55,894 --> 00:52:01,794
it should reduce the impact on how severe everything is because people will have an

735
00:52:01,794 --> 00:52:07,374
option, right? People will have an out, but then it also depends on like where you are in the world

736
00:52:07,374 --> 00:52:12,294
and what is your local jurisdiction like, and what is your local community like? And so there'd be

737
00:52:12,294 --> 00:52:18,154
places that will, you know, it won't be as severe and then there'll be other places that will just

738
00:52:18,154 --> 00:52:24,434
be fucking horrible and like specifically like the big cities on the coasts uh that are like

739
00:52:24,434 --> 00:52:29,934
horribly run and have like huge populations like it's gonna be worse there and we're seeing that

740
00:52:29,934 --> 00:52:35,354
in new york right now with like mom donnie like a just a vowed socialist or like never had a job

741
00:52:35,354 --> 00:52:43,674
um likely winning the mayoral race there um these are like the early warning signs for this type of

742
00:52:43,674 --> 00:52:50,094
thing. And I think it's important, specifically if you have a family, like, I think it's really

743
00:52:50,094 --> 00:52:54,634
important to think about these things and plan for the worst and hope for the best, you know,

744
00:52:54,674 --> 00:53:01,554
like maybe, maybe it doesn't, it's not as bad as it looks like. But I will say that, you know,

745
00:53:01,554 --> 00:53:05,774
when you see smaller economies like Argentina and stuff go through hyperinflation, it's absolutely

746
00:53:05,774 --> 00:53:12,854
brutal. Now imagine that with a global reserve currency and, uh, it should, it should be

747
00:53:12,854 --> 00:53:19,734
significantly worse because, you know, the whole world relies on the dollar. Um, like

748
00:53:19,734 --> 00:53:25,714
when Argent, when Argentina peso is failing, like people flood to the dollar and the dollar

749
00:53:25,714 --> 00:53:30,334
is failing, where do you flood to? Well, like you have gold and you have Bitcoin. Um, so

750
00:53:30,334 --> 00:53:37,054
it's good that we have that that that uh alternative that we have a good money because if you don't

751
00:53:37,054 --> 00:53:45,774
have that then it'd be significantly worse you know uh thinking about that thinking about like

752
00:53:45,774 --> 00:53:51,274
people fleeing to the dollar and in places in the global south where it's kind of their lifeline it

753
00:53:51,274 --> 00:53:58,574
makes me think of my most valuable bitcoiner uh who is paulo from tether and in these kind of

754
00:53:58,574 --> 00:54:06,814
situations like we don't want to see patterns hyperinflate but what who is your most valuable

755
00:54:06,814 --> 00:54:15,474
bitcoiner you know just for 20 to 2025 and is it is it a podcaster um

756
00:54:15,474 --> 00:54:23,074
i mean i think we're very lucky to have cali working on open source bitcoin stuff i think

757
00:54:23,074 --> 00:54:28,674
cashew is fucking awesome i think it's been impressive to to watch it you know be an open

758
00:54:28,674 --> 00:54:34,454
become an open protocol that is much bigger than just him um with many different wallets i think

759
00:54:34,454 --> 00:54:42,074
his work on bitchat uh has been really cool too i think bitchat's pretty exciting um the other

760
00:54:42,074 --> 00:54:49,614
zoomers in into in nepal were going full tally mode using bitchat to overthrow a very corrupt

761
00:54:49,614 --> 00:54:57,294
state so it penny pretty cool progress in action right there um so i think that's pretty pretty

762
00:54:57,294 --> 00:55:05,034
cool i think craig raw just like is just a constant fucking legend um like i fucking rely

763
00:55:05,034 --> 00:55:11,274
on sparrow my businesses rely on sparrow open sats relies on sparrow my family relies on sparrow

764
00:55:11,274 --> 00:55:18,134
like that fucking piece of software is unparalleled um so we're very lucky to have that um

765
00:55:18,134 --> 00:55:27,074
but yeah i mean i think there's new what i was just going to say i think using sparrow like i

766
00:55:27,074 --> 00:55:34,794
want to start i want to watch the term raw dogging cold storage raw dogging cell storage but as a

767
00:55:34,794 --> 00:55:43,534
tribute to craig why would it be a tribute to craig because his last name is raw oh

768
00:55:43,534 --> 00:55:47,334
thank you for explaining that to me

769
00:55:48,134 --> 00:55:49,314
you're welcome

770
00:55:49,314 --> 00:55:52,674
it's a great last name

771
00:55:52,674 --> 00:55:55,994
it is a good last name

772
00:55:55,994 --> 00:56:02,794
well yeah so one of the things we do on all our interviews is uh

773
00:56:02,794 --> 00:56:06,614
we read the fountain booths from the previous episode the previous interview

774
00:56:06,614 --> 00:56:07,714
nice we did

775
00:56:07,714 --> 00:56:12,594
rob hamilton told you to listen to our last one it sounded like you didn't

776
00:56:12,594 --> 00:56:15,514
we had portland huddle on i didn't listen to it no

777
00:56:15,514 --> 00:56:23,814
what's your aversion to listening to 40 hours of bitcoin podcast um i think 40 hours is a little

778
00:56:23,814 --> 00:56:28,274
bit aggressive i think like if you listen to like a humble like four hours a week it's pretty good

779
00:56:28,274 --> 00:56:38,754
which ones i mean that's a good question um i've been listening to a mallard show a decent amount

780
00:56:38,754 --> 00:56:45,114
now it's like weekly macro show you're not concerned with his broccoli haircut no i think

781
00:56:45,114 --> 00:56:59,165
that a feature not a bug why um i don know i just being provocative i don really think about his haircut at all I think it pretty crazy how much success he found with that show so quickly

782
00:57:00,205 --> 00:57:08,205
And it does cover, you know, I like it because it's like kind of like weekly topical news

783
00:57:08,205 --> 00:57:12,185
and specifically macro stuff, which I've never been stronger on.

784
00:57:12,745 --> 00:57:14,365
It has never been my strong suit.

785
00:57:14,365 --> 00:57:18,305
I'll occasionally listen to Marty's shows

786
00:57:18,305 --> 00:57:22,665
I'll occasionally listen to Danny's shows

787
00:57:22,665 --> 00:57:25,325
It's hard not to listen to Marty's shows

788
00:57:25,325 --> 00:57:28,125
When you see the open mouth thumbnail on YouTube

789
00:57:28,125 --> 00:57:29,825
I fucking hate that

790
00:57:29,825 --> 00:57:31,805
And Marty's not the only one guilty of that

791
00:57:31,805 --> 00:57:32,045
But

792
00:57:32,045 --> 00:57:36,005
The YouTube algorithm

793
00:57:36,005 --> 00:57:37,105
Has just really

794
00:57:37,105 --> 00:57:39,485
It's amazing what people do

795
00:57:39,485 --> 00:57:40,825
For like a couple more listeners

796
00:57:40,825 --> 00:57:43,465
I'm hoping that

797
00:57:44,365 --> 00:57:54,145
I'm hoping that we can, you know, provide a more incentive aligned path with primal, um, on the video and the podcasting side.

798
00:57:54,145 --> 00:57:57,885
And, um, because I fucking, I like, I hate those.

799
00:57:58,005 --> 00:57:58,885
I hate the thumbnails.

800
00:57:59,005 --> 00:57:59,865
I hate the clickbait.

801
00:58:00,885 --> 00:58:01,365
Um,

802
00:58:03,725 --> 00:58:07,065
You got me with the last episode of, uh, RHR.

803
00:58:07,145 --> 00:58:09,685
I saw the open mouth thumbnails and clicked on it right away.

804
00:58:09,685 --> 00:58:18,605
yeah well to be clear like i'm against our youtube uh on rhr um i don't handle that um

805
00:58:18,605 --> 00:58:24,485
so how far how far do you think marty's gonna take it we don't do those thumbnails on the podcast

806
00:58:24,485 --> 00:58:38,065
feed or on roster um the rhr uses marty's tftc youtube account um it always has it doesn't have

807
00:58:38,065 --> 00:58:39,405
its own YouTube account.

808
00:58:39,865 --> 00:58:40,285
And then like,

809
00:58:40,505 --> 00:58:41,985
if you look at the exact opposite,

810
00:58:42,145 --> 00:58:42,945
like Sill Dispatch,

811
00:58:43,005 --> 00:58:43,625
which I manage,

812
00:58:43,805 --> 00:58:44,945
like there's no clickbait,

813
00:58:45,045 --> 00:58:45,845
there's no thumbnails,

814
00:58:46,065 --> 00:58:47,005
and like we're basically

815
00:58:47,005 --> 00:58:49,185
shadow banned on YouTube.

816
00:58:49,785 --> 00:58:50,665
No ads.

817
00:58:51,865 --> 00:58:53,405
Like YouTube prioritizes

818
00:58:53,405 --> 00:58:53,925
in the algo

819
00:58:53,925 --> 00:58:58,045
anything that shows YouTube ads.

820
00:59:00,385 --> 00:59:02,485
So it's like,

821
00:59:02,545 --> 00:59:03,245
you're kind of damned

822
00:59:03,245 --> 00:59:04,385
if you do, damned if you don't.

823
00:59:04,725 --> 00:59:05,425
It's a little,

824
00:59:05,585 --> 00:59:08,045
it's a fucked up situation.

825
00:59:08,065 --> 00:59:10,205
so I don't really blame

826
00:59:10,205 --> 00:59:12,245
particularly people that are

827
00:59:12,245 --> 00:59:13,845
like that's their main source of income

828
00:59:13,845 --> 00:59:16,425
I think is where a lot of the issues stem from

829
00:59:16,425 --> 00:59:21,885
because you just have to go to like the lowest

830
00:59:21,885 --> 00:59:23,725
common denominator slot bullshit

831
00:59:23,725 --> 00:59:27,705
I don't know what the solution to that is

832
00:59:27,705 --> 00:59:29,605
maybe zaps play a piece

833
00:59:29,605 --> 00:59:34,685
maybe algo choice and no algo stuff plays a piece

834
00:59:34,685 --> 00:59:36,965
maybe webs of trust play a piece

835
00:59:36,965 --> 00:59:44,805
but um it's like pretty dark where we are in like social landscape right now um and there's no easy

836
00:59:44,805 --> 00:59:50,325
solutions like i don't it's not healthy whatever we're currently doing is not healthy but i don't

837
00:59:50,325 --> 00:59:56,565
pretend to have the answers on like what the solution is i'm just curious how far it's gonna go

838
00:59:57,925 --> 01:00:06,485
what do you mean well we're getting this weird you know people have their their ai girlfriends now

839
01:00:06,485 --> 01:00:14,645
yeah that's a new thing yeah that's pretty dark yeah or like is marty gonna have to do

840
01:00:14,645 --> 01:00:20,325
like bikini anime picture thumbnails in the future to grab attention like how far

841
01:00:20,325 --> 01:00:26,805
does this go yeah i mean i don't think he will do that um but uh

842
01:00:29,445 --> 01:00:34,565
on the ai sex bot stuff like i think i mean you want to talk about dark

843
01:00:34,565 --> 01:00:36,605
I think if

844
01:00:36,605 --> 01:00:38,885
if Elon releases

845
01:00:38,885 --> 01:00:39,465
a robot

846
01:00:39,465 --> 01:00:42,925
or releases a way

847
01:00:42,925 --> 01:00:44,765
for you to have VR

848
01:00:44,765 --> 01:00:46,165
sex that feels

849
01:00:46,165 --> 01:00:48,625
as good as real sex or

850
01:00:48,625 --> 01:00:50,625
close, like half

851
01:00:50,625 --> 01:00:52,945
of society just like immediately checks out.

852
01:00:53,305 --> 01:00:54,825
Like I think that's a pretty dark

853
01:00:54,825 --> 01:00:56,965
path to think about. And it's probably

854
01:00:56,965 --> 01:00:58,825
going to happen because there's definitely demand for it.

855
01:01:01,045 --> 01:01:01,605
But

856
01:01:01,605 --> 01:01:03,065
I wonder if

857
01:01:03,065 --> 01:01:10,065
mechanical will think it's okay for core devs to have sex with the r bots what's your fascination

858
01:01:10,065 --> 01:01:16,865
with core devs having sex it's not ours we're not we're just we're we took a stance that it's okay

859
01:01:16,865 --> 01:01:21,265
for them to have sex that's really that's really big of you it's important yeah

860
01:01:21,265 --> 01:01:26,665
some of the purity tests that goes they go too far

861
01:01:26,665 --> 01:01:32,705
that's definitely true

862
01:01:32,705 --> 01:01:37,605
well

863
01:01:37,605 --> 01:01:40,885
Rod do you have anything before we go to the fountain booth

864
01:01:40,885 --> 01:01:44,285
no let's do let's do the bursts

865
01:01:44,285 --> 01:01:45,365
cool

866
01:01:45,365 --> 01:01:48,605
so we interviewed

867
01:01:48,605 --> 01:01:50,605
Portland Hoddle it was a great episode

868
01:01:50,605 --> 01:01:52,765
he was he was the big

869
01:01:52,765 --> 01:01:53,485
villain on

870
01:01:53,485 --> 01:01:56,125
on Twitter for a little bit

871
01:01:56,125 --> 01:02:00,885
yeah I mean I think what he did with the

872
01:02:00,885 --> 01:02:04,305
trying to use,

873
01:02:04,505 --> 01:02:05,625
intentionally use up the bandwidth

874
01:02:05,625 --> 01:02:06,665
of people's home nodes

875
01:02:06,665 --> 01:02:07,745
was pretty fucked up,

876
01:02:07,785 --> 01:02:08,245
to be honest.

877
01:02:09,105 --> 01:02:09,785
Well, he didn't do it.

878
01:02:09,825 --> 01:02:10,845
He just talked about it.

879
01:02:11,065 --> 01:02:11,965
Oh, well, if he did it,

880
01:02:12,005 --> 01:02:12,645
it was fucked up.

881
01:02:14,665 --> 01:02:16,045
I think he's writing a book

882
01:02:16,045 --> 01:02:17,005
if I did it,

883
01:02:17,145 --> 01:02:18,805
but he's just going to talk

884
01:02:18,805 --> 01:02:20,045
about how the attack worked,

885
01:02:20,165 --> 01:02:21,485
but he didn't actually do it.

886
01:02:21,725 --> 01:02:22,585
And nobody's been able

887
01:02:22,585 --> 01:02:25,745
to provide Comcast cable bills

888
01:02:25,745 --> 01:02:27,065
to, you know,

889
01:02:27,445 --> 01:02:29,245
corroborate the accusations.

890
01:02:29,245 --> 01:02:31,285
we've seen no logs

891
01:02:31,285 --> 01:02:33,085
fair enough

892
01:02:33,085 --> 01:02:37,945
but yeah

893
01:02:37,945 --> 01:02:39,065
it was a great interview

894
01:02:39,065 --> 01:02:40,665
um

895
01:02:40,665 --> 01:02:42,465
rob hamilton

896
01:02:42,465 --> 01:02:43,485
first boost

897
01:02:43,485 --> 01:02:44,625
21,000 sats

898
01:02:44,625 --> 01:02:45,445
like 20

899
01:02:45,445 --> 01:02:47,065
laughing emojis

900
01:02:47,065 --> 01:02:50,885
what do you think

901
01:02:50,885 --> 01:02:53,445
is rob hamilton's giggling

902
01:02:53,445 --> 01:02:54,565
problematic

903
01:02:54,565 --> 01:02:56,205
should you stop laughing

904
01:02:56,205 --> 01:02:57,185
um

905
01:02:57,185 --> 01:02:59,365
Rob can do what he wants to do

906
01:02:59,365 --> 01:03:00,185
Rob's a friend

907
01:03:00,185 --> 01:03:03,065
I definitely don't agree with him on everything

908
01:03:03,065 --> 01:03:07,525
Do you agree with him on

909
01:03:07,525 --> 01:03:08,065
Miniscript?

910
01:03:09,185 --> 01:03:10,405
I think it's pretty cool

911
01:03:10,405 --> 01:03:12,265
I mean it's really

912
01:03:12,265 --> 01:03:14,245
It's cool what they were able to build with

913
01:03:14,245 --> 01:03:15,265
Anchor Watch using it

914
01:03:15,265 --> 01:03:20,805
I think it's like a

915
01:03:20,805 --> 01:03:22,485
It doesn't make sense to me that

916
01:03:22,485 --> 01:03:23,085
People

917
01:03:23,085 --> 01:03:30,885
like care what a company's node preferences are

918
01:03:30,885 --> 01:03:33,645
for like a non-consensus change.

919
01:03:35,605 --> 01:03:37,025
I think that's a little bit weird,

920
01:03:37,125 --> 01:03:39,405
but, you know, people like cancel culture stuff.

921
01:03:39,405 --> 01:03:43,705
So maybe that's just more endemic of our current society.

922
01:03:44,625 --> 01:03:46,805
On the giggle gate specifically,

923
01:03:47,005 --> 01:03:48,305
I think it was like kind of a bad look

924
01:03:48,305 --> 01:03:51,985
to laugh at node operators potentially getting

925
01:03:51,985 --> 01:04:00,145
uh yeah node operators getting uh you know almost like ddos i guess but uh

926
01:04:00,145 --> 01:04:05,205
you know i also think like people make big deals about things that don't really matter

927
01:04:05,205 --> 01:04:12,445
yeah but so the next boost is from fundamentals and he's the you know i'll get into him in a

928
01:04:12,445 --> 01:04:20,125
second but he boosted 10 000 sats um and his comment was the giggler is born so if you're

929
01:04:20,125 --> 01:04:26,605
kind of piecing together the conversation we're having right now about rob and giggling and nodes

930
01:04:26,605 --> 01:04:32,905
being attacked so a bunch of rowdy students from bitcoin university uh matthew cratter's

931
01:04:32,905 --> 01:04:39,045
institution got really upset that robbed for laughing at the plight of com coast node com

932
01:04:39,045 --> 01:04:44,525
cast nodes run by plebs so they were trying to cancel them and there's an ad in the uh in the

933
01:04:44,525 --> 01:04:50,045
episode at the very beginning that people are referencing here in these boosts but um we covered

934
01:04:50,045 --> 01:04:56,305
that already i wanted to cover real quickly on fundamentals um he's the author of bitcoin is for

935
01:04:56,305 --> 01:05:02,325
institutions and he was in nashville we were all in nashville last summer at the rabbit hole recap

936
01:05:02,325 --> 01:05:08,785
uh like bitcoin conference event the the at the bar yeah do you remember that do you remember like

937
01:05:08,785 --> 01:05:14,485
the rose do you remember that comedian that was there do you remember that was david david lucas

938
01:05:14,485 --> 01:05:18,085
And fundamentals, he was aggressive than I expected.

939
01:05:18,365 --> 01:05:18,945
Anyway, continue.

940
01:05:19,365 --> 01:05:21,725
Or as you find, I was loves podcasts.

941
01:05:21,885 --> 01:05:24,145
And you just mentioned David being aggressive.

942
01:05:24,145 --> 01:05:36,725
But fundamentals kind of has Odell derangement syndrome since that night because he thought that you were very grumpy and that you were not handling the the roast very well.

943
01:05:36,725 --> 01:05:44,145
I'm curious to hear your thoughts firsthand about what you were thinking about on stage, because.

944
01:05:45,685 --> 01:05:50,645
Were you, you know, were you like, I'm a podcaster, you can't be talking about me this way.

945
01:05:51,765 --> 01:05:53,145
No, I think.

946
01:05:54,325 --> 01:05:55,145
You know.

947
01:05:57,225 --> 01:06:03,105
One of the coolest parts of the shows is, you know, interacting with people all around the world.

948
01:06:03,105 --> 01:06:05,225
Like, I think the freaks are fucking awesome.

949
01:06:05,225 --> 01:06:09,945
Like we have a really cool ride or die community of listeners.

950
01:06:11,965 --> 01:06:17,885
And like, that's the single most positive part of, of the shows.

951
01:06:18,225 --> 01:06:20,105
I mean, it's what keeps me going.

952
01:06:20,845 --> 01:06:25,525
And the in-person shows are, are extra special because I mean, in this case, it was our largest

953
01:06:25,525 --> 01:06:27,965
in-person show that we'd ever done independently.

954
01:06:27,965 --> 01:06:32,745
So like not at a conference, I think it was like 600 people's like packed out room at this,

955
01:06:32,745 --> 01:06:35,605
at this music venue in Nashville.

956
01:06:36,625 --> 01:06:39,605
And we told people that it was family friendly

957
01:06:39,605 --> 01:06:41,125
and that they can bring their family.

958
01:06:41,345 --> 01:06:42,725
And he just gets up on stage.

959
01:06:42,765 --> 01:06:44,685
And the first thing he says is there's a bunch of kids

960
01:06:44,685 --> 01:06:45,405
in like the front row.

961
01:06:45,425 --> 01:06:46,745
And he's like, you all should have been aborted.

962
01:06:47,465 --> 01:06:50,405
And I was like, it just set me off in the wrong direction.

963
01:06:50,565 --> 01:06:51,265
So I don't think I was,

964
01:06:53,805 --> 01:06:56,925
I think grumpy is probably the wrong word for it.

965
01:06:56,985 --> 01:06:58,085
I think it was more like,

966
01:06:59,685 --> 01:07:02,605
and anger is not the right word either,

967
01:07:02,605 --> 01:07:03,905
but it was like I was like

968
01:07:03,905 --> 01:07:06,405
I was pretty pissed off at him

969
01:07:06,405 --> 01:07:09,345
no it was fucked up

970
01:07:09,345 --> 01:07:10,345
that's actually

971
01:07:10,345 --> 01:07:11,565
yeah

972
01:07:11,565 --> 01:07:14,445
that's David Lucas' shtick

973
01:07:14,445 --> 01:07:16,305
I know I had no idea who he was though

974
01:07:16,305 --> 01:07:18,125
like the pub key guys handled that part

975
01:07:18,125 --> 01:07:20,025
um

976
01:07:20,025 --> 01:07:22,785
I mean mostly the I mean I think the pub key

977
01:07:22,785 --> 01:07:24,625
guys did a pretty good job with that event planning

978
01:07:24,625 --> 01:07:26,585
and the best part was I didn't have to do

979
01:07:26,585 --> 01:07:27,665
any of the planning so

980
01:07:27,665 --> 01:07:30,625
um on that note

981
01:07:30,625 --> 01:07:31,705
uh

982
01:07:32,605 --> 01:07:34,745
Like they do, they do deserve credit for that.

983
01:07:35,625 --> 01:07:37,165
Because I hate planning events.

984
01:07:38,625 --> 01:07:40,065
Like that shit is a slog.

985
01:07:41,005 --> 01:07:45,245
I was one of the co-founders of Bitcoin Park and we have an event going on right now.

986
01:07:49,445 --> 01:07:50,505
It was a great show.

987
01:07:50,725 --> 01:08:09,496
I had a good time It was a lot of fun right I hope you guys do more of those i think the live events are really uh really awesome yeah it a lot of fun so yeah it a lot a lot of people they they hug

988
01:08:09,496 --> 01:08:13,696
it out when they're in person you know they argue on twitter they issue each other purity tests

989
01:08:13,696 --> 01:08:19,456
when they're drinking beer together they hug it out feel better yeah no i think social media

990
01:08:19,456 --> 01:08:25,776
really divides people in general um and that's another unsolved problem like i don't know how

991
01:08:25,776 --> 01:08:32,496
we mitigate that make it a healthier experience for people i mean this this is what we try to

992
01:08:32,496 --> 01:08:37,536
we try to constantly do with platter we just try to wish him a good day hope he has a good day

993
01:08:37,536 --> 01:08:43,136
that's really it's really big of you guys i want to give him a hug i hope he shows up at the rhr

994
01:08:43,136 --> 01:08:46,656
event i'll give him a big hug we'll smoke a cigarette together i mean he might have

995
01:08:46,656 --> 01:08:49,076
He might have been there at the last one.

996
01:08:50,516 --> 01:08:52,776
That already doesn't go to these events because he's,

997
01:08:52,936 --> 01:08:56,416
somebody told him that crypto mags will tickle him.

998
01:08:56,576 --> 01:08:57,296
And he doesn't,

999
01:08:57,356 --> 01:08:59,796
he doesn't like to be tickled without consent.

1000
01:09:02,616 --> 01:09:05,256
How would you not want to be tickled by crypto mags?

1001
01:09:07,996 --> 01:09:08,616
All right.

1002
01:09:09,176 --> 01:09:09,856
Next boost.

1003
01:09:09,936 --> 01:09:11,156
What did Fundamental say?

1004
01:09:11,296 --> 01:09:12,916
Did you even say what Fundamental said?

1005
01:09:13,236 --> 01:09:14,496
He said the giggler was born.

1006
01:09:14,716 --> 01:09:15,696
Oh, the giggler was born.

1007
01:09:15,896 --> 01:09:16,316
Oh, yeah.

1008
01:09:16,656 --> 01:09:18,316
The giggler was a big hit.

1009
01:09:18,976 --> 01:09:20,796
I mean, you mentioned Odell derangement syndrome.

1010
01:09:20,796 --> 01:09:22,316
Like that's a real fucking thing.

1011
01:09:22,836 --> 01:09:24,896
I, uh, it's kind of crazy.

1012
01:09:25,756 --> 01:09:28,976
Um, that's a lot of people hate me now.

1013
01:09:30,816 --> 01:09:31,836
Kind of unexpected.

1014
01:09:32,616 --> 01:09:32,816
Yeah.

1015
01:09:32,856 --> 01:09:37,036
I think the people that the haters, what you need to realize is that

1016
01:09:37,036 --> 01:09:38,556
Bitcoin podcasters are important.

1017
01:09:38,876 --> 01:09:41,476
Where would Bitcoin be without Bitcoin podcasters?

1018
01:09:41,996 --> 01:09:45,396
Odell here is like one of the longest running Bitcoin podcasters

1019
01:09:45,396 --> 01:09:46,816
in the world.

1020
01:09:47,156 --> 01:09:48,556
He's going to be in the history books.

1021
01:09:49,276 --> 01:09:50,176
You know, people in the future,

1022
01:09:50,276 --> 01:09:51,016
they're going to think of,

1023
01:09:51,076 --> 01:09:54,676
you know, these important figures in history.

1024
01:09:54,796 --> 01:09:56,096
Alexander the Great,

1025
01:09:57,296 --> 01:09:58,956
George Washington,

1026
01:09:59,276 --> 01:10:01,076
Thomas Jefferson, Matt O'Dell.

1027
01:10:03,456 --> 01:10:04,696
I fucking hate you.

1028
01:10:07,156 --> 01:10:07,956
But thank you.

1029
01:10:08,016 --> 01:10:08,876
That was kind.

1030
01:10:09,396 --> 01:10:10,356
I will say,

1031
01:10:10,416 --> 01:10:12,096
I think a lot of it stems from

1032
01:10:12,096 --> 01:10:13,236
what people don't realize

1033
01:10:13,236 --> 01:10:15,176
is open science has probably rejected

1034
01:10:15,176 --> 01:10:18,096
like nearly 2,000 applications.

1035
01:10:18,516 --> 01:10:20,316
So I think behind most,

1036
01:10:20,876 --> 01:10:21,976
like most Odell haters

1037
01:10:21,976 --> 01:10:23,696
is a rejected open-sets application.

1038
01:10:23,816 --> 01:10:25,436
And they never say that's what it was.

1039
01:10:25,876 --> 01:10:27,796
They always make up some other reason for it.

1040
01:10:28,416 --> 01:10:29,396
Well, how many...

1041
01:10:29,396 --> 01:10:30,576
And it's funny because a lot of them

1042
01:10:30,576 --> 01:10:32,236
I've actually probably voted yes for,

1043
01:10:32,496 --> 01:10:35,096
but I'm the face, so they blame it on me.

1044
01:10:35,416 --> 01:10:36,816
Well, how many applications

1045
01:10:36,816 --> 01:10:39,096
has the Clinton Foundation

1046
01:10:39,096 --> 01:10:42,476
or the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation approved?

1047
01:10:43,076 --> 01:10:43,496
I don't know.

1048
01:10:43,556 --> 01:10:44,736
I don't think they're very transparent.

1049
01:10:44,736 --> 01:10:46,196
I don't know if we have that information.

1050
01:10:49,556 --> 01:10:52,136
It's interesting where some people's priorities are.

1051
01:10:52,656 --> 01:10:53,156
What do you mean?

1052
01:10:55,436 --> 01:11:00,736
Well, you know, there's these purity tests that are thrown at Bitcoin podcasters,

1053
01:11:00,896 --> 01:11:03,796
and then there's these people on the Epstein client list,

1054
01:11:03,836 --> 01:11:05,636
and it's like, where are you drawing all your energy?

1055
01:11:06,196 --> 01:11:07,776
Yeah, I think that's a good point.

1056
01:11:07,956 --> 01:11:10,816
And why are you sitting on the peanut gallery

1057
01:11:10,816 --> 01:11:14,096
hurling insults at Bitcoin podcasters when you don't even have a podcast?

1058
01:11:14,736 --> 01:11:21,996
like what ground do you have to stand on like sure yeah you can you can uh pass all the purity

1059
01:11:21,996 --> 01:11:28,396
tests when you're not even uh doing anything you know what i mean yeah i think that's true

1060
01:11:28,396 --> 01:11:34,356
you can't you can't criticize you can criticize anybody you want with the way that they're

1061
01:11:34,356 --> 01:11:36,156
spending your bitcoin if you never spent a sat

1062
01:11:36,156 --> 01:11:44,356
yeah i mean i just think it's it's weird where people

1063
01:11:44,356 --> 01:11:49,916
I, you know, it's people can focus their time wherever they want to focus their time, but

1064
01:11:49,916 --> 01:11:51,236
try and be productive.

1065
01:11:51,816 --> 01:11:51,876
Yeah.

1066
01:11:53,216 --> 01:12:00,176
Um, Shadrack, 10,093 sat says, thank you, gentlemen.

1067
01:12:00,336 --> 01:12:02,936
Long live the giggler hashtag 40 HPW.

1068
01:12:03,796 --> 01:12:04,276
Yeah.

1069
01:12:05,276 --> 01:12:07,156
Giggler was a hit for sure.

1070
01:12:09,936 --> 01:12:11,876
I really appreciate this following boost.

1071
01:12:11,876 --> 01:12:15,276
We got a very committed group of people.

1072
01:12:15,556 --> 01:12:16,436
Yeah, that's pretty good.

1073
01:12:17,876 --> 01:12:19,496
We don't have a name for them yet.

1074
01:12:19,536 --> 01:12:20,456
We don't call them freaks.

1075
01:12:20,536 --> 01:12:21,796
I think that's really disrespectful.

1076
01:12:23,396 --> 01:12:24,696
We do have a name for them.

1077
01:12:24,776 --> 01:12:26,076
We call them pioneers.

1078
01:12:26,616 --> 01:12:27,656
That's kind of our big thing.

1079
01:12:27,796 --> 01:12:33,496
We try to get people to stop identifying as, you know, retarded plebs

1080
01:12:33,496 --> 01:12:38,236
and realize that they're pioneers, that the UX, the user experience on the frontier

1081
01:12:38,236 --> 01:12:41,236
of separating money from state

1082
01:12:41,236 --> 01:12:43,616
and building a new global monetary standard.

1083
01:12:43,756 --> 01:12:45,636
The user experience is not going to be good.

1084
01:12:45,876 --> 01:12:47,216
It's not going to be easy.

1085
01:12:48,816 --> 01:12:51,136
We're pioneers when we either start acting like it

1086
01:12:51,136 --> 01:12:52,376
and start acting like floods.

1087
01:12:53,196 --> 01:12:53,876
I like pioneers.

1088
01:12:54,296 --> 01:12:55,216
Pioneers is a good one.

1089
01:12:56,176 --> 01:12:56,776
Go Pios.

1090
01:12:57,816 --> 01:13:02,316
Did you hear there's a new rival university out there,

1091
01:13:02,316 --> 01:13:04,556
the rival Bitcoin University.

1092
01:13:04,756 --> 01:13:06,096
It's called the University of Bitcoin.

1093
01:13:06,096 --> 01:13:11,356
It's actually a real credentialed university, and their mascot is the Pioneers.

1094
01:13:11,716 --> 01:13:12,136
That's great.

1095
01:13:12,936 --> 01:13:14,096
The more education, the better.

1096
01:13:15,996 --> 01:13:19,016
I mean, I don't know why you would go to an unaccredited university.

1097
01:13:20,456 --> 01:13:21,316
No way.

1098
01:13:22,596 --> 01:13:25,336
The next boost is from another Pioneer.

1099
01:13:25,856 --> 01:13:29,216
Late-stage HODL, 2,500 sats.

1100
01:13:29,296 --> 01:13:31,916
He says, Notre Dame's helmets are painted in gold.

1101
01:13:31,916 --> 01:13:39,276
As gold demonetizes, then Bitcoin fixes this, and then Notre Dame will have to foredo the paint to stack sets.

1102
01:13:40,016 --> 01:13:40,736
That's a good point.

1103
01:13:42,556 --> 01:13:48,616
Demonetization, the dollar falling apart, Bitcoin taking over, it's going to have an impact on college sports.

1104
01:13:48,756 --> 01:13:55,776
They're not going to be able to pay student athletes millions of dollars to play sports ball every Saturday.

1105
01:13:55,776 --> 01:14:04,676
They're going to have to fund Bitcoin podcasters and the infrastructure for education a little bit more deliberately.

1106
01:14:06,876 --> 01:14:09,076
Notre Dame is such a loser school.

1107
01:14:09,296 --> 01:14:10,716
What's your opinion on sports ball?

1108
01:14:10,776 --> 01:14:12,116
You got a favorite sports ball team?

1109
01:14:12,836 --> 01:14:13,616
You like sports ball?

1110
01:14:16,116 --> 01:14:18,496
I used to be a big Giants fan.

1111
01:14:19,696 --> 01:14:21,356
COVID kind of broke it all for me.

1112
01:14:21,356 --> 01:14:30,276
I think also at the same time, we started a family and I became a dad and have a lot of work stuff as well.

1113
01:14:30,436 --> 01:14:33,696
So, like, it's just, it's hard for me to devote much time to it.

1114
01:14:33,896 --> 01:14:36,096
I, like, kind of got, like, burnt out from it.

1115
01:14:37,216 --> 01:14:42,196
But, like, the whole way, like, all the leagues, like, fucked around with their players.

1116
01:14:42,196 --> 01:14:49,276
and, you know, were very, like, propaganda-driven

1117
01:14:49,276 --> 01:14:52,356
on the, like, vaccine side and stuff,

1118
01:14:52,436 --> 01:14:53,896
like, kind of really broke it for me.

1119
01:14:54,476 --> 01:14:59,416
I do, I watched F1 a decent amount.

1120
01:15:04,056 --> 01:15:06,716
Wouldn't racing be better if they allowed cigarette companies

1121
01:15:06,716 --> 01:15:07,536
to sponsor cars?

1122
01:15:08,416 --> 01:15:09,156
Yeah, they used to.

1123
01:15:09,196 --> 01:15:10,536
They don't anymore, I don't think, right?

1124
01:15:10,536 --> 01:15:13,096
I mean I think it's kind of funny

1125
01:15:13,096 --> 01:15:14,996
I think Bitcoin podcasters should have to wear

1126
01:15:14,996 --> 01:15:16,156
like the F1 uniforms

1127
01:15:16,156 --> 01:15:18,036
like all the different sponsors on them

1128
01:15:18,036 --> 01:15:20,876
kind of like the swan forcers

1129
01:15:20,876 --> 01:15:21,856
back in the day

1130
01:15:21,856 --> 01:15:24,596
yeah you should have to wear the sponsors all over

1131
01:15:24,596 --> 01:15:25,876
all over your clothing

1132
01:15:25,876 --> 01:15:27,176
be very obvious

1133
01:15:27,176 --> 01:15:30,936
I mean I like F1 because like it's

1134
01:15:30,936 --> 01:15:32,116
first of all I think it's

1135
01:15:32,116 --> 01:15:34,696
it's just a cool sport

1136
01:15:34,696 --> 01:15:36,396
but second of all

1137
01:15:36,396 --> 01:15:38,876
just like the fact that like it's one of the few ones

1138
01:15:38,876 --> 01:15:44,956
where you can actually like still die in them which i think it keeps it well for a while there

1139
01:15:44,956 --> 01:15:48,956
a lot of players on the football field and other sports were dying because they need them get

1140
01:15:48,956 --> 01:15:57,916
vaccinated yeah you can die podcasting these days pretty crazy that's true too i like going to live

1141
01:15:57,916 --> 01:16:05,036
sports you know i've been watching way less tv in general so i like live sports are fun live music

1142
01:16:05,036 --> 01:16:12,876
is fun like it's just cool being at events you should be able to do a live podcast yeah have a

1143
01:16:12,876 --> 01:16:26,436
live podcast studio it's a great idea well let's blast through these booths uh team satoshi double

1144
01:16:26,436 --> 01:16:33,516
boosted us so thank you for your time everything satoshi 500 sat says the people complaining about

1145
01:16:33,516 --> 01:16:38,476
portland huddle are people who missed out on bitcoin twitter spaces during the bear market

1146
01:16:38,476 --> 01:16:45,836
the 69 to 15k era some of the stuff mentioned in those spaces can't be discussed today courtesy

1147
01:16:45,836 --> 01:16:52,876
of the oversensitive less bitcoin educated suit coiners and noobs i support nods datum and ocean

1148
01:16:52,876 --> 01:17:00,436
but matthew cratter was wrong about this one love cratter though well it's nice that you love

1149
01:17:00,436 --> 01:17:08,216
matthew no real quick before we blast you the rest of these we forgot to ask you what is your

1150
01:17:08,216 --> 01:17:14,876
how do you feel about suit coiners are you a fan of the suit coiners are you some people think you

1151
01:17:14,876 --> 01:17:21,076
may have coined the term suit coiner although creditor takes credit um what are your thoughts

1152
01:17:21,076 --> 01:17:24,516
there i think i might have been the first person to say it but also i don't really give a shit

1153
01:17:24,516 --> 01:17:28,456
what? Joe's looking at me

1154
01:17:28,456 --> 01:17:30,836
do we never admit you're in the room?

1155
01:17:33,256 --> 01:17:35,376
I think I was the first person to say suit corners

1156
01:17:35,376 --> 01:17:38,756
I have my Twitter archive

1157
01:17:38,756 --> 01:17:40,976
so I can pull up the date

1158
01:17:40,976 --> 01:17:44,356
but anyway it doesn't really matter

1159
01:17:44,356 --> 01:17:46,916
I like just putting words in front of coiners

1160
01:17:46,916 --> 01:17:50,336
so like pre-coiners, no corners

1161
01:17:50,336 --> 01:17:53,396
I mean obviously I didn't come up with the term no corners

1162
01:17:53,396 --> 01:17:54,796
Bitcoin deniers

1163
01:17:54,796 --> 01:17:56,576
but the suit coiners

1164
01:17:56,576 --> 01:17:57,456
look I think

1165
01:17:57,456 --> 01:18:00,956
I think they're aligned

1166
01:18:00,956 --> 01:18:03,056
obviously because of Bitcoin

1167
01:18:03,056 --> 01:18:04,836
alignment like what we talked about earlier

1168
01:18:04,836 --> 01:18:07,096
I do think

1169
01:18:07,096 --> 01:18:10,916
everyone's welcome to do

1170
01:18:10,916 --> 01:18:12,656
whatever they want but this whole

1171
01:18:12,656 --> 01:18:14,036
leverage Bitcoin equity

1172
01:18:14,036 --> 01:18:16,156
MSTR strategy play is

1173
01:18:16,156 --> 01:18:17,956
not interesting to me

1174
01:18:17,956 --> 01:18:20,896
I think Saylor has absolutely

1175
01:18:20,896 --> 01:18:22,156
crushed the game on that front

1176
01:18:22,156 --> 01:18:24,616
It's like very much MSTR and then everyone else.

1177
01:18:25,296 --> 01:18:34,936
But at this point, it's like clearly like a bottom tier grift on like a bunch of these plays.

1178
01:18:35,396 --> 01:18:41,916
And it's like everybody is like just selling out and like launching some random fucking Bitcoin penny stock

1179
01:18:41,916 --> 01:18:46,316
that doesn't actually like have an operating business.

1180
01:18:46,316 --> 01:18:49,376
It doesn't actually like, you know.

1181
01:18:49,376 --> 01:19:03,867
Um they and then they implicitly try and get you to buy the stock instead of Bitcoin Um so it it pretty lame It kind of boring I don think it bad for Bitcoin

1182
01:19:04,187 --> 01:19:06,227
I think it probably broke the,

1183
01:19:07,007 --> 01:19:09,967
any remainder of moral high ground

1184
01:19:09,967 --> 01:19:13,707
that like the online Bitcoin maximalism community had.

1185
01:19:14,727 --> 01:19:16,527
Like how can you, you know,

1186
01:19:18,527 --> 01:19:20,647
you know, I think actions speak louder than words

1187
01:19:20,647 --> 01:19:23,027
and it's like, it's,

1188
01:19:23,027 --> 01:19:32,947
i i mean i'd rather not name names uh but like

1189
01:19:32,947 --> 01:19:37,947
i don't know like a lot of these are just fucking

1190
01:19:37,947 --> 01:19:46,587
just fucking garbage and people are just in it to like hopefully get rich quick uh at the expense

1191
01:19:46,587 --> 01:19:51,247
of whatever their audience is uh because i mean you look at like the the boards and stuff and it's

1192
01:19:51,247 --> 01:19:53,007
It's like, oh, who has the most Twitter followers?

1193
01:19:53,947 --> 01:19:55,327
We'll just draft you in.

1194
01:19:57,747 --> 01:20:00,327
I appreciate you not naming names.

1195
01:20:00,507 --> 01:20:01,327
We don't.

1196
01:20:01,407 --> 01:20:02,047
Do you?

1197
01:20:02,247 --> 01:20:04,807
We don't allow anti-souanitism on the podcast.

1198
01:20:09,807 --> 01:20:10,567
I don't know.

1199
01:20:10,667 --> 01:20:17,127
I think like having a formalized influencer draft is a great idea.

1200
01:20:17,847 --> 01:20:20,127
I mean, that's basically what it kind of, you guys should do that.

1201
01:20:20,127 --> 01:20:24,027
Like, that's how, what it feels like.

1202
01:20:24,067 --> 01:20:31,347
It feels like all these people are like free agents and they're getting drafted by whichever penny stock gives them the best deal.

1203
01:20:35,747 --> 01:20:38,287
But yeah, look, at the end of the day, I'm also a free market guy.

1204
01:20:38,407 --> 01:20:44,967
So people have the right to get wrecked and they should, you know, take personal responsibility for their actions.

1205
01:20:44,967 --> 01:20:46,947
and obviously

1206
01:20:46,947 --> 01:20:50,007
you know more demand for Bitcoin

1207
01:20:50,007 --> 01:20:52,027
helps all Bitcoiners because we see

1208
01:20:52,027 --> 01:20:53,927
our purchasing power increase and

1209
01:20:53,927 --> 01:20:56,187
I don't know like some people would prefer

1210
01:20:56,187 --> 01:20:58,027
to be poor like I'd rather

1211
01:20:58,027 --> 01:21:00,187
my purchasing power or my money increase

1212
01:21:00,187 --> 01:21:01,907
it makes everything easier in life

1213
01:21:01,907 --> 01:21:04,207
if your savings

1214
01:21:04,207 --> 01:21:05,147
can buy more shit

1215
01:21:05,147 --> 01:21:06,847
over time

1216
01:21:06,847 --> 01:21:12,067
well let me blast through the rest of these

1217
01:21:12,067 --> 01:21:13,527
God's death

1218
01:21:13,527 --> 01:21:19,487
237 sats says thank you gentlemen pies 121 sats you know pies right

1219
01:21:19,487 --> 01:21:25,187
i don't know what you're talking about oh you don't know that nostril user pies

1220
01:21:25,187 --> 01:21:33,947
oh yeah yeah of course says yo yo yo salute strong arm mushroom emoji hashtag 40 hpw

1221
01:21:33,947 --> 01:21:41,627
dave 100 sats says we ain't going nowhere we ain't going nowhere we can't be stopped now because

1222
01:21:41,627 --> 01:21:43,907
it's bad boy for life

1223
01:21:43,907 --> 01:21:49,007
CPOBV

1224
01:21:49,007 --> 01:21:51,067
Average Gary 100 Sat says

1225
01:21:51,067 --> 01:21:53,327
there's a Bitcoin underground on Noster

1226
01:21:53,327 --> 01:21:55,207
that Portland HODL is missing out on

1227
01:21:55,207 --> 01:21:57,727
yeah we gave Portland a hard time for not being on Noster

1228
01:21:57,727 --> 01:21:59,427
yeah I mean

1229
01:21:59,427 --> 01:22:01,947
it's weird that more Bitcoiners

1230
01:22:01,947 --> 01:22:03,267
don't use it but

1231
01:22:03,267 --> 01:22:09,807
you know network effects are a bitch

1232
01:22:09,807 --> 01:22:10,227
and

1233
01:22:11,627 --> 01:22:13,267
A lot of people are obsessed with engagement.

1234
01:22:13,267 --> 01:22:17,767
So until we get more users, those people will not use Oster.

1235
01:22:18,587 --> 01:22:20,587
It doesn't really even matter what the UX is like.

1236
01:22:21,267 --> 01:22:21,367
Yeah.

1237
01:22:22,447 --> 01:22:23,967
Average Gary, 100 sats.

1238
01:22:24,047 --> 01:22:27,847
Says like a heart hand symbol emoji.

1239
01:22:28,907 --> 01:22:30,547
Bitcoin Golf Pro, 100 sats.

1240
01:22:30,607 --> 01:22:31,107
Says greatness.

1241
01:22:31,347 --> 01:22:31,767
Thank you.

1242
01:22:31,867 --> 01:22:33,507
BTC on board, 100 sats.

1243
01:22:33,787 --> 01:22:35,167
Good friend, BTC on board.

1244
01:22:35,807 --> 01:22:36,587
Glad you listened.

1245
01:22:37,407 --> 01:22:38,867
Three laughing emojis.

1246
01:22:39,507 --> 01:22:41,247
And that's it, folks.

1247
01:22:41,627 --> 01:22:51,127
for the fountain base mr rodell you're a true pioneer thank you sir i feel i feel like i'm

1248
01:22:51,127 --> 01:23:00,787
talking to an elder statesman right now any advice for for people who it's going to be hard not to be

1249
01:23:00,787 --> 01:23:06,847
grumpy i have a feeling the next few years what is your advice for people to to break past the grumps

1250
01:23:06,847 --> 01:23:11,827
be happy and optimistic about the future why do you think it's going to be hard not to be grumpy

1251
01:23:11,827 --> 01:23:18,327
well you're not on x but if you have been paying attention and monitoring the situation the world

1252
01:23:18,327 --> 01:23:28,727
is not not going in a great direction right now um yeah i mean i tend to agree with that but i think

1253
01:23:28,727 --> 01:23:33,747
uh uh on the bitcoin side we're probably in the best bitcoin timeline

1254
01:23:33,747 --> 01:23:38,307
um it's hard to imagine bitcoin being in a better place right now

1255
01:23:38,307 --> 01:23:46,827
uh so i think people should find uh joy in that and not take it for granted um it's really weird

1256
01:23:46,827 --> 01:23:52,207
like this is the first real bull market where like the bitcoin prices as the bitcoin price is

1257
01:23:52,207 --> 01:23:57,907
increasing like people are getting more mad right like we used to be happy together and i think part

1258
01:23:57,907 --> 01:24:04,867
it is also because like of the bitcoin penny stocks because like sometimes you know the penny

1259
01:24:04,867 --> 01:24:08,547
stock pumps and bitcoin doesn't pump so the penny stock people are happy and then sometimes bitcoin

1260
01:24:08,547 --> 01:24:15,027
pumps but the penny stock doesn't pump so then the penny stock people are upset um so like we're not

1261
01:24:15,027 --> 01:24:21,107
like as all in it together in terms of like uh our bags at the same time it's like very much like a

1262
01:24:21,107 --> 01:24:28,787
shitcoin dynamic in that regard right like solana solana dumps from bitcoin pumps you know um so

1263
01:24:28,787 --> 01:24:33,667
it's like an interesting phenomenon how much rage there's been but i think it's probably going to be

1264
01:24:33,667 --> 01:24:42,867
even more rageful like it's going to be so just like enjoy the pump you know uh enjoy enjoy enjoy

1265
01:24:42,867 --> 01:24:50,707
bitcoin being adopted and increasing and in use and and purchasing power is just awesome to see

1266
01:24:51,107 --> 01:24:54,987
And then the second piece is like, I find a lot of hope in, in the open source movement.

1267
01:24:55,847 --> 01:25:01,647
Um, I, I think ultimately like giving people agency over their lives and, and independence

1268
01:25:01,647 --> 01:25:08,347
and, and freedom to choose how they live their digital lives is, uh, something that will

1269
01:25:08,347 --> 01:25:14,267
result in, in better human flourishing and, and, and just better, you know, better results

1270
01:25:14,267 --> 01:25:15,927
for individuals themselves.

1271
01:25:16,307 --> 01:25:18,247
So that's where I focus most of my time.

1272
01:25:18,247 --> 01:25:24,347
um to me i there's you know real optimism there and it's actionable and something that i can

1273
01:25:24,347 --> 01:25:30,867
actually change and then last but not least like you know i have a i have a growing young family and

1274
01:25:30,867 --> 01:25:41,107
uh that's fucking awesome i i i it's an incredibly exhausting rewarding beautiful experience

1275
01:25:41,107 --> 01:25:47,047
um and so like focus on the things that you can change focus on what matters

1276
01:25:47,047 --> 01:25:48,947
and enjoy the little things.

1277
01:25:49,167 --> 01:25:52,367
Don't get caught up in all the bullshit out there

1278
01:25:52,367 --> 01:25:54,167
because there's so much fucking bullshit.

1279
01:25:54,367 --> 01:25:57,607
People just get angry about things that just don't matter.

1280
01:25:57,767 --> 01:25:57,887
Yeah.

1281
01:25:58,687 --> 01:26:01,787
If my final thoughts on that is,

1282
01:26:02,207 --> 01:26:04,947
if you thought hyper-Bitcoinization was going to be easy,

1283
01:26:05,767 --> 01:26:06,467
you did not.

1284
01:26:06,467 --> 01:26:10,407
You're not listening to 40 hours of Bitcoin podcasts per week.

1285
01:26:13,067 --> 01:26:15,527
Thank you, Mr. O'Dell, for coming on.

1286
01:26:15,807 --> 01:26:16,887
Thank you for having me, gentlemen.

1287
01:26:17,047 --> 01:26:23,847
anytime i i enjoyed it and uh very lucky in the bitcoin community to have the boys of the bugle

1288
01:26:23,847 --> 01:26:32,087
providing us prevention for this journalism thank you marty bent says this time is different

1289
01:26:32,087 --> 01:26:40,487
bitcoin is one and it is magnificent governments are buying so why aren't you don't you want to be

1290
01:26:40,487 --> 01:26:42,167
Rich and cool.

1291
01:26:43,367 --> 01:26:46,627
Odell is confused and doesn't think Lenny's hot.

1292
01:26:46,947 --> 01:26:50,027
He's a gay bear who needs to be taught.

1293
01:26:50,727 --> 01:26:53,967
Staying humble is cool during the bear market.

1294
01:26:54,227 --> 01:26:55,567
But this is the bull.

1295
01:26:55,747 --> 01:26:57,747
It's going up like a rocket.

1296
01:26:58,587 --> 01:27:01,887
The future is bullish because Bitcoin has won.

1297
01:27:02,007 --> 01:27:03,967
It's been a tough bear market.

1298
01:27:03,967 --> 01:27:06,147
Get ready for some fun.

1299
01:27:06,287 --> 01:27:09,247
The future is bullish when Trump shit coins.

1300
01:27:09,247 --> 01:27:13,327
Game theory is in progress, everyone will join

1301
01:27:13,327 --> 01:27:16,887
Plebs and podcasters are the vanguard

1302
01:27:16,887 --> 01:27:21,247
The world is going to use a Bitcoin standard

1303
01:27:21,247 --> 01:27:29,927
A Bitcoin standard

1304
01:27:29,927 --> 01:27:38,407
If you think about it closely

1305
01:27:38,407 --> 01:27:40,067
Matt is plain wrong

1306
01:27:40,067 --> 01:27:41,607
We'll have a bright future

1307
01:27:41,607 --> 01:27:43,847
Because Bitcoiners are strong

1308
01:27:43,847 --> 01:27:45,747
We are all about to get rich

1309
01:27:45,747 --> 01:27:47,807
Beyond our imaginations

1310
01:27:47,807 --> 01:27:49,867
But casters will be royalty

1311
01:27:49,867 --> 01:27:52,247
Deciding the fate of nations

1312
01:27:52,247 --> 01:27:54,147
So will this time be different?

1313
01:27:54,387 --> 01:27:56,167
Only time will tell

1314
01:27:56,167 --> 01:27:57,847
Are we walking into heaven?

1315
01:27:57,847 --> 01:28:02,907
Or are we ushering in hell? The spooks are here and they don't play by the rules

1316
01:28:02,907 --> 01:28:06,867
You can see if you pay attention to the clues

1317
01:28:06,867 --> 01:28:10,467
Bitcoin will go up-priced in USDT

1318
01:28:10,467 --> 01:28:14,187
That doesn't mean that we will necessarily be free

1319
01:28:14,187 --> 01:28:18,027
Wanting wealth and comfort is not a sin

1320
01:28:18,027 --> 01:28:21,287
People are tired, they just wanna catch a win

1321
01:28:21,287 --> 01:28:26,367
The future is bullish when Trump shit coins gain theory

1322
01:28:26,367 --> 01:28:34,787
is in progress everyone will join plebs and podcasters are the vanguard the world is going to

1323
01:28:34,787 --> 01:28:43,107
use a bitcoin standard odalax faith in good old dennis porter he's orange pulling the world

1324
01:28:43,107 --> 01:28:52,047
ushering in order 70 approval rating is no small feat he makes bitcoin go up with breaking tweets

1325
01:28:52,047 --> 01:28:55,947
Remember all the people who were lazy

1326
01:28:55,947 --> 01:28:59,727
Didn't listen to podcasts and called us crazy

1327
01:28:59,727 --> 01:29:03,807
Back then we listened to 40 hours every week

1328
01:29:03,807 --> 01:29:07,387
Hearing Matt and Marty call us freaks

1329
01:29:07,387 --> 01:29:11,427
They listened to their podcast while they were poor

1330
01:29:11,427 --> 01:29:15,487
Bitcoin started pumping and their prospects began to soar

1331
01:29:15,487 --> 01:29:17,907
Marty Ben says his time is different

1332
01:29:17,907 --> 01:29:19,927
And I think he might be right

1333
01:29:19,927 --> 01:29:22,927
But Matt's a gaybird thinking adversarially

1334
01:29:22,927 --> 01:29:25,027
Still ready for a fight

1335
01:29:25,027 --> 01:29:28,287
The future is bullish when Trump shit coins

1336
01:29:28,287 --> 01:29:32,387
Game theory is in progress, everyone will join

1337
01:29:32,387 --> 01:29:35,927
Plebs and podcasters are the vanguard

1338
01:29:35,927 --> 01:29:40,487
The world is going to use a Bitcoin standard

1339
01:29:40,487 --> 01:29:49,007
To use a Bitcoin standard

1340
01:29:49,927 --> 01:29:50,927
Bye.