Hey, folks, this is Buster Cherry.
I just wanted to let you know about a new Bitcoin podcast that is launching.
Are you tired of listening to podcasts done by suits?
Do you want to hear content that affirms you doing nothing and makes you feel good about it?
Do you want to be told that you can change the world by buying $100 hardware wallets using Bitcoin-only KYC exchanges running knots on a Start9 server, as well as buying whatever the recent gadget is?
Do you want to hear macro gibberish that doesn't even make sense, but confirms you are right?
Well, Pleb Slop is the podcast for you.
By plebs for plebs.
This podcast will complain about people doing things while making you feel good,
while you sit on your couch smoking weed and shit posting about David Bailey on Twitter.
The co-hosts Citizen Pleb and Toxic Plebinot will entertain you.
This podcast can only be found on Fiat Podcasting 1.0 platforms
because the hosts don't believe you should ever spend your Bitcoin.
Find the hosts on Twitter, not Nostar, because the UX is too hard.
Now sit back, light a cigarette, and enjoy the show.
The climate is abysmal.
Plevs are grumpy.
They're attacking podcasters, devs, and suitcoiners, trying to cancel them for laughing at the plight of other plebs.
Paper Bitcoin summer fizzled out before the first autumn leaves fell to the ground.
Noster has become a ghost protocol, yet in the midst of all the chaos, Bitcoin is still trading well over 100,000 tethers.
Many are asking if all hope is lost, but all hope is not lost, not for pioneers.
While the plebs are gnashing their teeth, the pioneers are blazing trails and building the foundation for the future.
Hard times create strong men and folks, we are in hard times.
Once seen as the grumpiest Bitcoin podcaster, our guest today says he is feeling gleeful and bullish.
known for his optimistic price predictions prolific bitcoin podcasting
Noster only-ish ethos and being a true trailblazing pioneer of the value for value frontier
today we are joined by Matt Odell Matt Odell is a man who has read the mandibles has survived
multiple bear markets never succumbed to the noise of the bull markets except for that one time
and is a true top G.
Although a skeptic of listening to 40 hours of Bitcoin podcasts per week,
he lives it.
Mr. Odell, amidst all this turmoil
and the accelerating pace of the fourth turning,
you've chosen to no longer be grumpy.
What can the plebs learn from your example?
it's uh it's uh you gotta just in in in enjoy the journey have fun
that was a great intro i wasn't expecting a question thank you for having me
it's good to be here so we're taking over your studio we're in nashville
it's not it's not a bugle stream without me messing something up so i i think i mistitled
the stream are we live on primal we should be but i think i'm pointing it to the wrong account
so which account liberty under attack i think what account is that it's a good account
it's a pretty under attack
yeah
Dick Reaser does uh DJ
he's like a doomsday DJ radio
on Mondays for Liberty Under Attack
but why do you speak
in that I have a question
for you Matt you I think
you could be described you're a venture capitalist
a podcaster
a nostrich
a father
and a freak how would you
rank those five
you know
descriptions of yourself how would you rank those
in order of importance to you
uh
father
husband bitcoiner
okay if you said
you don't take
pride or at least
as much pride as we do
in being a bitcoin podcaster
you know the best the podcasts were like kind of an accident and then um
did i just kept doing them i don't uh
i don't know the podcasts are are kind of to me are more of a means of an end i don't like think
of myself as a podcaster but i definitely am one so maybe that's not relevant
do you think you should have more pride should you be more proud to be a bitcoin podcaster
um i mean i think i i think we definitely you know take pride in our work in general
i mean when i say we me and marty on rabbit hole recap i mean i think it's uh to the point where
it probably gets a little bit gratuitous how many times i say we've done it every week for seven
years.
But that specifically is
pretty fucking crazy.
It's that borderline insane.
We haven't taken a break.
Had kids. Marty's dad died.
Like all the
COVID shit.
Evacuated New York.
Gave Marty two
masks and said, good luck.
That was when we thought everyone was going to die.
March 2020.
Still had RHR that week though.
I got married.
It's going to turn your wedding into a podcast.
I think that would have been really great.
It was actually really funny.
I did want to dox my wedding day.
So,
but Marty was at my wedding,
but we did it remote.
Why?
We did it like remote in person
so that the freaks wouldn't know.
the the reason we asked the question is because podcasters are becoming incredibly
influential and being a bitcoin podcaster comes with a lot of responsibility and i think
or do you agree that at the very least bitcoin podcasters should take themselves as seriously
as dennis porter well that's a pretty low bar um i mean jokes aside like i think uh
I think it's pretty lame that people just like change their recommendations for like 10k.
There's so many cheap people in the Bitcoin space.
Like your self-custody recommendations shouldn't like change based on who your sponsor is.
It's a pretty sacred responsibility to like recommend how someone saves their life savings.
for their family and uh it shouldn't change based on who pays you the most and if it is
going to like they should at least pay you more it's really fucking cheap yeah we take
that responsibility very seriously that's why we only refer people to office depot for
their paper wallets i feel like this is safe it's like how can the massad infiltrate the
paper supply no no freaks do not i mean they're obviously joking but definitely do not use like
a shared printer to print a fucking paper wallet that's a horrible idea no obviously not what you
do is you take a sharpie and you draw the qr code by hand in the office depot cypherpunks use paper
i think jay weatherman would advise that you go to the forest and you cut down five separate trees
and you make your own paper out of the pulp and you make,
and then you write your seed, you know,
you make your paper wall out of those files,
and then you put them in an envelope
and you spread them out across the country.
I'm kind of annoyed that I can't see the live chat.
Are we not live on Primal?
Check the app stream. We should be.
Oh, I can check the app stream.
Should we...
I mean I could I could stop the stream and restart it now don't do that we have Lindy
I'm checking primal right now I'm doing the I'm under in the situation from from a remote location
We might only be live on Twitter this might actually be a problem
Yeah, I don't see it on well. I don't know how to necessarily confirm on primal and I'm sitting on his upstream
where is it on twitter is it on the bugle account yeah it's on the bugle account
and i mislabeled the uh the stream i'm acting like an amateur we're live with
adele and then another then there's an exclamation point that's on the second line pretty funny
being a podcaster serious business it's hard it's hard
It's a lot harder to like stream live on like five different platforms at once.
It's a lot harder than it looks.
Yeah, both of my shows are live shows.
That definitely makes it much more difficult, I think.
Yeah, you're a true pioneer.
Thanks.
You have been one of the biggest, longest advocates of the value for value ecosystem.
Yeah.
we got the citadel dispatch flag behind us
how do you how do you want to be like when kids are learning about history and bitcoin history
in their citadel schools 50 years from now how do you think they're going to write about you in
the history books i know hopefully they don't at all that would be the ideal situation well
It's not an option.
Yeah, I think it's impossible because you've been out in front of a lot of things.
And, you know, right now, Bitcoin Twitter is absolutely nothing but drama.
But sometimes you know when there's some pretty spicy industry drama,
when a screenshot, an Odell screenshot from Noster starts going viral on X.
And last spring one of the one of these situations are where you it where you called out Michael Saylor for his you know he wanted to starve the core dads charitable donations and you whipped off the plebs into quite a frenzy over that
um but barely you know just over a year later the tides have shifted dramatically but plebs are
very much on Sailor's side.
Sailor's trashing the idea of donating to well-intentioned core devs
who just want to make Bitcoin better.
How do you feel about that whole situation?
Do you feel betrayed by the Pledge,
or would you encourage them to rethink their position in this node client battle?
Have you taken a position in this node client battle?
No.
Well, there's a lot of pieces there.
First of all, so like last year, it came to my attention that Michael privately was telling people not to support the different organizations that are supporting open source developers in the Bitcoin space.
Um, and, uh, like I first just wanted to like talk to him about it privately.
And I, I believe it or not, like I couldn't get, I couldn't get in touch with him.
I tried for a couple months.
Um, so like four months went by, five months went by.
Um, and then at that point I really just got frustrated that it was just happening behind
closed doors.
Like I just kind of wanted an open discussion about it.
so I sent out two Nostra posts
and at that point I was posting in all caps
so it probably came out
much more aggressive
than I intended
which is
I'll take responsibility for that
because I posted it in all caps
but I was posting everything in all caps
and you can look back at the Nostra post
like I intentionally
did not
put my judgment there about whether or not I thought,
I mean, you can like kind of,
I've donated so much of my time to OpenSats.
Like you can kind of get my opinion from that,
just from like the proof of work there.
But I intentionally was just like,
I just wanted people to talk about it and know about it.
And a lot of the immediate reaction
was specifically that I was lying about it.
And as someone who has been truthful
and honest and very transparent in the space for a long time like the accusations of being a liar is
like that sucks like that really frustrated me so at this point now when it's mostly people
saying like sailor was right and odell was wrong at least like they're admitting that i wasn't a
liar so i got that going for me um so that's a nice change of pace um because sailor can't both
both be right and me be a liar.
Logically, that's the case.
I think, look, people are,
everyone should have their own opinion.
I think there's no such thing as an invalid opinion.
It's not like an objective thing.
It's something that people subjectively have to decide
on what they think the best path forward is
on open source development in general, not just in Bitcoin.
But I would say that the idea that there's a small group of developers
that are working on the Bitcoin protocol and Bitcoin core is a very real concern
and is part of the reason that OpenSats exists in the first place
because I think the answer there is actually,
I personally think the answer there is more developers
and more diverse funding
and bringing more developers into the space
that think differently and are running their own
well-maintained, well-reviewed implementations.
I think more choice is better in general.
I think if you try and do like
a defund the police movement on open source developers,
what you actually introduce is you introduce a situation where
they become more desperate and they'll take questionable funding, right? Like the concern
that, you know, maybe they're getting influenced by certain for-profit companies and stuff like
that. Like to me, that concern becomes, if you remove independent organizations like OpenSats
that separates the donors from the actual grants,
then the result you get is the situation we had.
You get a situation where like a random for-profit company
is like paying core devs like $60,000 directly
and says like, merge the things that I want to see.
So to me,
I think that we were probably in a way worse position
four years ago, five years ago,
in terms of how these open source contributors were getting funding
because they were getting funding like directly from exchanges and stuff.
And since then, we've seen HRF do their dev funding.
We've seen OpenSats do the dev funding.
So they have more diverse independent options available to them,
and I think that's a pretty big win.
But yeah, I'm just glad that people are talking about it publicly
and that it's not happening behind closed doors.
I kind of have two questions on that subject.
So one's a little bit unfair, or maybe it's not.
You since have talked to Saylor, right?
Yeah, we're actually on good terms.
Yeah.
So what do you think his standpoint is?
And he wasn't offended that I posted those Nostro posts.
Is he just a big believer that paper Bitcoin is the best way to scale Bitcoin?
look i mean obviously uh he is uh a massive holder of bitcoin both personally and with his
company right so like he does have very strong incentive to see bitcoin succeed i mean that's
one of the cool parts about bitcoin right is that anyone who owns bitcoin is aligned
and wanting to see bitcoin succeed um i think it was actually kind of interesting i did an
interview with him at the park, like right over there. Um, a couple months after all of that.
And it was like a breaking bread kind of thing. Um, and I asked him specifically about,
well, first of all, he only had like 40 minutes and, uh, which means I get like four questions,
like three questions. Cause he's, he, he always has very long answers. Um, but I asked him about
Bitcoin used as money.
And I was actually kind of surprised.
He said that
the main thing that he thinks is holding back
is actually like U.S. tax policy,
which is interesting
because I think a lot of people
like assume that he just doesn't think
people should or will spend Bitcoin.
But if it's just a tax policy argument,
then I think
like people are more aligned there than, than people give them credit for.
Um, because I mean, they, the, the tax policy specifically cap gains is like, it's just,
it adds such a mental burden, adds such mental friction that it does hold back. I think it
holds back adoption in a lot of ways, but I think also at the same time, like, uh,
it's just an order of operations thing.
Like I think it's going to take time for people to first end up with all their
savings in Bitcoin.
And then once all your savings is in Bitcoin,
it's actually easier to spend Bitcoin than spend dollars.
Because if you're spending dollars,
it means you have to actually sell the Bitcoin first to spend in dollars.
So first Bitcoin is used primarily as savings.
Then people start spending it later.
And I think good money, it's weird because with Bitcoin, it's always been like the spend camp and then like the save camp because like people on social media like to be in like tribes.
But you really, for good money, you need both.
Like because if you can't spend your savings without permission, then you have no value there.
It's basically not your money.
So you need to be able to do both and they both work hand in hand together.
so you think sailors being empathetic to people he understands they they can't afford their taxes
and that bitcoin's a savings vehicle to be able to afford your taxes and then if you spend your
bitcoin then you have to pay a jewish accountant to help you figure out how to be able to afford
your taxes and it's just expense after expense that's his that's his no i don't think i don't
think the problem with tax policy is not affording it because you're only paying taxes on profit,
right? Like the way cap gains works is if you're paying, you're paying a percentage,
if in America it's long-term cap gains, I think on the federal level is like 20%,
but it's a percentage of, of, of your purchasing power increase. So you're literally only paying
cap gains if Bitcoin increases in purchasing power, which it, which it does. So, so in that
respect like obviously you can afford it the problem is just the mental burden of of like
actually um like keeping track of it and reporting it and whatnot i think that's the
that you can afford it as long as you don't spend it before next april and according to like you
know this is just speculation you're not the one tweeting from the 1031 twitter account
but according to that account bitcoin is going much higher it's a very high signal account i
don't know if you've noticed there's a lot of bullshit that's going on twitter right now but
um if you want the signal between signal through the noise the 1031 twitter account is really
it's really there for the plebs what about so nostor we can get into this a little bit too
because it seems like nostor is kind of going through a little bit of a bear mark and all the
drama is on X.
So everybody wants to go to where
the drama is. You got Pleds who are
fleeing Noster, going to
X. And then
you got Marty.
What's it like going through this fourth
turning, all this drama?
Marty isn't so much on Noster,
but I feel like he's probably spending 40
hours per week reading Truth Social.
How do you pull Marty back from Truth Social
and put on a good
podcast and do good work
when everybody is just glued to the drama on the timeline Including ostriches who were going to axe Like how do you get them back how do you get the drama we talked slander might come to nostril when uh he was
crashing out over paid for bitcoin summer he getting the last he he he thought it was an
active chamber you got american hodl he's doing he's posting vlogs vlogs how do you how do you
draw the the plebs back to nostril um first of all you guys i think you guys are the main reason
that you like you like bullied predator off of x and then you brought paper bitcoin summer over to
nostril and then bullied him back to x so that that was all and you guys that i disagree with
that i disagree no platter went to nostril and he realized that it was really difficult to delete
his post so then he left yeah i think um that's something that's really difficult for influencers
on nostr is that is the the no deletes so you have to actually stand behind what you say and
then the other thing is no blocks like you can mute people but you can't restrict your replies
and i think you know a lot of influencers like the safe space of being able to restrict who can
reply to them and stop the reply guys. So, but to me, that's a feature, not a bug. And I think
over time, as Nostra adoption increases, the fact that people can't restrict replies will just mean
that we'll have more honest discourse will happen. You know, I think Nostra is still incredibly early.
I think adoption is going pretty well. I think we're just starting to get to the point where
like the apps are stable enough, right? Specifically Primal is getting to a really
stable point. And I've been heavily involved in building that out. Um, so I'm pretty happy. I'm,
I'm pretty happy with where we currently stand in terms of, uh, Nostra adoption. It is pretty
disappointing that we don't have more drama. I think it's funny that a lot of people say,
um, there's too much Bitcoiners on Nostra. It's like, to me, it's like, we don't have enough.
Like if you're going to fight, if Bitcoiners are going to fight, it'd be great if they fought on Nostra instead of X.
But I think it's just going to be a grind thing.
Like I think it's a time thing.
I don't think Nostra is inevitable, but I think it is something that would be a massive value add to society if it does succeed.
And so there's a bunch of us that are going to try and bootstrap it and try and make it happen.
I think the live streaming with Zapp specifically is a nice little edge that we have.
um and then you mentioned American HODL like I don't think he gets enough credit for
um being active and and uh posting good shit over there he's like he makes some really
he makes some really great videos uh the Bitcoin treasury video the 80s theme I thought that was
fantastic and that was really that video was a a big uh influence and like a inspiration for me
or for not me, but me as well as the others who really were talking about paper Bitcoin summer and
this big, um, this big event that it was. And I want to clarify, we were not wholly in Twitter
or a planet or what we were doing. We was, we were, we were player was trying to avoid us.
And we wanted him to know that he was invited to paper Bitcoin summer. And there was nowhere
that he could hide where we wouldn't find him and let him know that we wanted him to join us.
And I think you make a good point about Noster allowed people don't like the ability to restrict the two ways communication that people be able to like a lot of people do want to avoid Shinobi coming into the replies to call them retarded.
And I my advice is if you want people to stop calling you retarded, you have to stop being retarded.
And I think that Noster is a place where you learn that more quickly.
You get that feedback.
You can't hide from the truth.
In Austria, you can't hide from the truth.
And I think that the problem, and we get back to it, is you can't delete your tweets.
Well, cancel culture just kind of flipped sides a week ago.
And now there's a lot of people used to be safe to post a white saying that Trump's meme
coin was a shit coin.
And now you should be sued for it.
And now people are trying to delete those tweets.
And it's just a different, it's a different mindset.
would you consider
Plutterter an influencer?
Oh, 100%.
Would you not?
I don't know what I call it.
He thinks he's a journalist, but...
Well, in Nafsi Madness,
he was in the influencer bracket.
So...
I think he plays an important role
in the ecosystem
and there is a lot of groupthink and there's, you know,
I mean, he definitely provides a unique perspective, right,
that most people aren't highlighting in a lot of ways.
I will say that at one point he, like,
he posted about how 1031 was evil for dumping, uh, fold stock on retail, um, and posted like a
public document because publicly traded companies have to release like, you know,
all sorts of documentation. And the public document he posted was, uh, about a credit
deal that we set up for fold where they for debt so that they could buy bitcoin and put it on the
balance sheet and we hadn't sold any fold stock i was i i believe we still haven't uh and so the 1031
intern uh let him know you know what the facts of the situation were there and he just like
completely ignored it and then it wasn't like oh i'm wrong i think there's a there's a tendency of
people to not admit when they were wrong um or don't know something um and i think it's fine to
be wrong i think but you should own it um you know i've been wrong plenty of times but it's important
to own it it's a good point it's a good point yeah let's let's talk about i wanted to circle back to
open sense yeah so what what type of purity test do you issue when you're uh evaluating developers
that you're funding so i mean that's the other thing that's you know and and maybe we try and be
as transparent as possible i think we're probably one of the most transparent charities in the world
period um and so all of our grants are public the the who we provide grants to we're provide
we've provided over 200 grants um throughout our existence we don't say the amounts because
it's a balancing act like we don't want to you know basically dox people's you know how much
much Bitcoin they might have or might be getting.
So this has been a balancing act.
And I will say like what we've like probably provided nearly 250 grants.
A lot of them are year long grants.
And I don't think a single grant recipient has, they've, they're will,
they're obviously completely allowed to tell people how much they make.
And none of them have chosen to do that.
So like, it's very,
it's very obvious to me that grant recipients do not want amounts to be known.
Um, but, uh, we, and so like when people say like, oh, like open session, it'd be funding
commie devs or this or that.
It's like, okay, well, which ones are the commies and which ones are the ones we're
funding?
And no one ever gives me an answer on that.
Like they never tell me that.
I will say that, uh, the overwhelming majority of stuff we fund is actually like not protocol
stuff.
Uh, we fund a few core developers.
I think we fund one maintainer
Which ones?
Just out of curiosity
Fanquake
I think we fund him
I think we partially fund him
And another organization partially funds him
I was hoping you'd say Gloria
No, we don't fund Gloria
But I, like
The whole design of OpenSats
was based on me seeing, us seeing,
you know, inefficient, corrupt charity organizations
in the past.
So we're 100% passed through by design.
The board doesn't get paid anything.
And we have a nine-person board that's eight right now
because Lisa stepped away earlier this year.
So we need to replace her.
but we have a nine person board that doesn't get paid.
And then every grant basically comes in, we get an app
and then it comes into this private GitHub repo.
And then the board members review it underneath
and then we all vote underneath as well.
And so like if a grant gets a simple majority, gets five votes,
then it gets approved.
So no single board member can force through grant applications.
no single board member can block those things.
And as a result, I think it's a more merit-based process
than a lot of other organizations.
And what's cool there, it means like those votes aren't public
because I also don't think votes should be public
because if votes are public, then you could pressure board members
and do like social media mobs and stuff to get them to vote one way or the other.
So that's why those votes aren't public. But what it means is we have a full audit trail over every review process and every vote. So if we ever needed to release like an audit trail of why someone got a grant and how much they were getting and all that stuff, like we have all of those records, which I think is pretty cool.
and then we have a review process
so usually like people
have one year grants
we have long term support grants
that are two years
but then they're
they're fixed in fiat
on a yearly basis
and then they're paid out monthly
in Bitcoin
so like the Bitcoin exchange rate is fluctuating
but we send out about a million dollars
of the Bitcoin every month
to about 200 grant recipients in 40 plus countries.
And it's pretty fucking cool to see it all kind of come together.
I mean the BidAx project we were the original funders of the BidAx project I think that has been a massive success I think we seen a lot of success with CashU We one of the largest funders at BTC Pay Server
And I think, you know, if you want to supercharge,
I think open source development is a key piece of,
you know, freedom in the digital age
because it's not controlled by any individual.
It's not controlled by a company.
And if you want to supercharge that,
it makes sense to me that you support developers
so that they can work full time on this stuff
instead of, you know, making it a hobby project on the side.
Like, would these projects, you know, still happen?
Probably.
Would they take longer?
Yeah.
Like, is life short?
Like, would I rather have Freedom Tools operating in two years
than five years or 10 years?
Yeah, 100%.
Like, that's better for myself.
That's better for everyone.
It's better for our children.
So that's why OpenSats exists, to supercharge it,
but also provide, you know, this funding
in a relatively merit-based, independent, transparent way as much as possible.
Do you think our core devs who are funded by OpenSats,
are they allowed to have sex?
Or is it like a no-ask, don't-ask, don't-tell situation?
Do you have a policy at all in their contracts?
No, their sex life is completely independent from our review process.
I mean look the cool part
the cool part about open source stuff is you actually
have like a pretty
a relatively objective like
proof of work track record
for a lot of these developers
so you can see like
if they're actually doing things
or if they're not
and
they usually
provide like
a roadmap of what they
tend to work on
and then when they give us reports
when they give us the quarterly reports
they say what they got done
and where they currently stand
but we're relatively loose about it
like if
we see situations where
someone maybe they're doing
they're outside of protocol work
they're making a Bitcoin wallet or something
like we have Cove wallet
which we've been funding
which is a self-custody mobile-based wallet.
But let's say, for instance, he says in his roadmap
he's going to release an iOS wallet,
and then he decides to pivot, and he's like,
no, the app store is too difficult.
I'm just going to release on Android or web or something like that.
And he says in a report, that's completely fine.
We're not going to be like,
you said you were going to have an iOS wallet,
and now you don't have an iOS wallet.
So we're relatively loose about it,
But like the key is like, like, don't just like take the money and do nothing.
You know, just like fuck off and go on vacation or something.
And we've actually only had, maybe there's like nine grants that we've paused in the review process.
And the overwhelming majority of them actually send back the Bitcoin, which is kind of crazy.
Because like, obviously it's Bitcoin, we can't call it back.
But they like feel bad when they send it back.
They're like, oh, like I had a family issue or something.
I'm just going to send it back.
Maybe that's first.
Yeah.
They're not prime trust.
No.
Maybe that's the compromise, though, to all this drama on Twitter is to pay debts not to do any of that.
Maybe that's what we have to do.
It's like pay all these debts to not tinker with Bitcoin.
Maybe that's what some people want.
i mean if if uh if if the goal is to get developers that you don't want to work on bitcoin to stop
working on bitcoin then yeah that actually probably would be pretty effective it'd be just
like sailor's got plenty of money sailor doesn't want anybody to tinker with bitcoin he can just
pay them to stay away everybody who knows how to code just pay them to not tinker with bitcoin
And the solution is that it's like the people who don't like the spam.
It's like, then just buy block space and price out the spam.
Buy off the developers to not code.
I think that is maybe that's what we need to tell Saylor to do.
Yeah, I mean.
Look, I jokes aside, like I think.
There's a lot of maintenance and like efficiency improvements that can be done on Bitcoin without protocol changes.
Um, I think, uh, actually like the knots people mostly agree with this.
Cause like Luke is constantly shipping updates and making his own tweaks.
Um, but if you believe that there isn't, and you believe that we don't need any, you know,
more maintenance work or, or like efficiency gains and stuff like that.
Um, then like, why are people arguing about running knots?
Like just run v28 forever, v29 forever, not upgrade.
You don't need the developers.
Like you can just do that.
But I think everyone is implicitly saying like, no, that's not the case because that's why they, you know, that's why they want a separate, well-reviewed, maintained implementation and have more choice going forward.
Because if that wasn't the case, then you could just always run the old one.
I will say that on the consensus stuff, like actual soft forks,
I think that ship has mostly sailed, like, except for a few,
maybe very urgent things that have, like,
if something urgent and absolutely necessary had to happen,
we might see a soft fork in the future.
But at least in the near, I don't think, like,
these things like Covenants or anything that, like CTV or whatever,
I don't think any of that's going to happen.
And I think policy changes like how nodes relay transactions
and stuff that are not consensus-based, you know,
should be up to the node operator on how they want to run that.
But it's like not, you know, it's not changing the protocol.
So I think there's a little bit of a conflation between like
bad changes to the protocol versus like how a node relays transactions
and what a node keeps in its mempool.
And I actually, I would just say, like, in general,
I lean more on the sailor side in terms of,
first of all, like, breaking changes to Bitcoin,
which would be a hard fork, but also, like, on the soft fork side.
Like, I think we should be very, very conservative
if there are any soft forks going forward to Bitcoin.
and it should only be when it's absolutely necessary.
Like there is a concern that you could have a change
that's a bad change.
And so Bitcoin is working right now.
It is the base of a global financial system.
And my entire family, my family relies on it.
My businesses rely on it.
Like my whole life relies on Bitcoin.
Like I really don't want to fuck it up.
i don't want developers to it up and so everyone needs to be as conservative as possible
do you think that uh so there's this growing crowd of people that say that there's too many bitcoin
podcasts do you think that the proponents of that believe that because there's too diverse of
opinions they want protocol changes like ctv and that having too many podcasters with different
opinions cause problems for that?
I mean, I think the problem
on the Bitcoin podcast side is
we don't have enough podcasts.
I think it's
there's a lot of group think out there.
There's not a lot of independent opinions.
I think people are more or less
scared to say how they actually feel
or actually haven't been able to do
the work to actually have their own opinion.
And usually they just repeat whatever their sponsors
tell them to think.
So I would like to actually see more.
I think more education is good in general.
I think more tools is better in general.
You know, I think more Bitcoin companies
is better in general.
I think more open source Bitcoin projects
is better in general.
And we just need more, more, more.
And that's just a net win for everybody.
And so how do you grow that pie?
How do you make it more, uh, accessible?
I think I've got an easy answer to that.
Uh, I think open shouts should be looking at funding open source
podcasting in general.
I, um, we did, we were funding education for a bit, um, which we pulled back on.
Uh, so like technically that kind of kind of fall into that, uh, field.
I will say that the cool part about OpenSATs funding developers is, like I said, open source developers specifically have like a verifiable track record that you can base your grant decisions on, right?
Like you actually have, you have commits and releases and projects that you can like actually like audit and look at and review.
When you start funding things like education or we've seen some organizations fund so-called Bitcoin circular economies like a Bitcoin beach or something like that, it becomes much more subjective on if work is being done, how much progress is being made.
So it becomes much more difficult.
I mean, I think other organizations, it makes sense to me that other organizations, you know, could or maybe even should fund these things.
Well, I'm thinking about it.
I personally don't think OpenSAT should do all the things.
And I want to see more organizations bloom in general.
We've helped support multiple independent organizations
that specialize in different aspects of Bitcoin.
And we'd like to see a thousand flowers bloom.
I don't want OpenSAT to be a single point of failure.
The whole point of OpenSAT in the first place
was to distribute what we saw as centralized funding
in the first place and add another option to the table.
So if you don't like how OpenSats does things,
one of the most productive things you can do
is actually launch another organization, I think.
But then last but not least, on the value-for-value side,
I think direct funding is the best
because then you don't have a middleman in the first place.
And I think this is another reason why
specifically the work that's being done on Primal is so important because you, if you make the interface for supporting both creators and open source devs, much easier, much more like fun and almost gamified with that nice software.
social signal built in with zaps, I think what you see is you see more people actually
do it. I think a lot of people want to support their favorite podcast or their favorite open
source project, but it can be difficult. And so then they get, so then the friction stops
them from doing it. But like if you, for instance, like if Craig Raw posts like a new Sparrow
wallet update like zap that shit you know so like that is strictly better than i'm getting funding
from an open source like i think users should be funding to developers directly if they if they
appreciate their work and same with podcasts other education what do you think about what do you
think about like there's this company called lightning bounties where you can put a lightning
payment bounty on a project or something on github if somebody actually goes implements it it gets
merged into the to the project they automatically get a payout from it like what about using
bounties in this way where it's like instead of me just funding you to go put whatever you want
on bitcoin a very specific change a very specific fix a very specific feature and it goes on a
bounty and if it ultimately makes it into a release then you can get paid for that instead of um you
know, the alternative.
I think bounties are interesting.
I think it's also hard to do bounties effectively, though.
So we've kind of shied away from it for the most part.
I mean, the problem with bounties is, first of all, you have to make them very, very specific
and objective, because if they're vague in any kind of way, there's going to be arguments
on who qualifies for the bounty and who should get paid out and if someone should get paid
out or not.
The second problem you have is you have people do like the bare minimum amount of work to get a bounty.
But I will say that we've had some successes.
Like we did a bounty program in partnership with HRF and Strike a couple of years ago.
And that was actually what birthed Cashew, which I think has been a pretty successful project and it's been pretty cool to watch.
Like, uh, Cali basically saw the bounty go up and then like in three weeks released the first cash you wallet, um, and claimed a bounty.
Um, so there's definitely success stories there.
Um, but as someone who has, you know, had to debate about whether or not someone qualifies for a bounty or not, it gets, it can get really dicey.
It's hard to do right.
Um, I think, yeah, so you kind of flipped the tables on me.
So it sounds like I care about open source podcasting.
So I should endeavor on this.
Like I'd like to see the bid acts of microphones.
That's pretty cool.
The,
the sure SM seven B the one that you're using.
Yeah.
It's like the,
the flagship of Bitcoin podcasters.
And I think there's a centralization risk.
Podcasting is just like mining.
I think it's funny that,
uh,
I don't know.
Like the cool part about podcasting today,
in my opinion,
is that you can just like,
you know,
use your laptop's mic
and you don't have to go buy fancy equipment.
Like just ship a podcast.
Just like do it.
You can iterate over time.
Like I think people overthink a lot of things.
I'm a big believer in just like diving in
headfirst into things
and figuring it out as you go.
and I think with podcasting as well,
that's a very valid thing.
I also hate when people,
like they sit on a show for like three weeks or four weeks.
They just fucking release the thing.
That's why all my shows are live, unedited,
immediately ship it out.
Things are moving too fast.
Yeah, taking three weeks to edit your podcast,
that was like a third turn or yeah it's not a fourth turning activity that's for sure i agree
so one thing that i thought was really important i want to talk to you about
before we get into the fountain base uh
how close are we to the mandibles right now and did marty ben ever read the book he never read the
book no you know I think what people so the mandibles to like the 10 people that don't know
what it is is a book about hyperinflation in the United States I think one piece that people miss
about it is that it's specifically based in New York so like you only see the New York City
perspective for the most part without giving away too many spoilers but it makes sense to me that
And as we see the institutions we rely on, even more trust get eroded for them and the dollar continuing to just bleed value.
Inflation is just running away at this point.
And it's not, you know, the numbers they give you on inflation are just absolutely bullshit.
Like it's really double digits.
and you can just see it from like the cost of groceries and everyday things like people aren't
idiots um so I think that will happen and I think the question is what is the timing
and now I think in mandibles specifically like she thought bitcoin was going to fail and in her
defense I think she wrote she wrote the book almost 10 years ago um which it was probably
more likely at that point that bitcoin could fail or would fail so I think in a world where
we have Bitcoin and you have a, um, basically a seamless path to switching to better money,
it should reduce the impact on how severe everything is because people will have an
option, right? People will have an out, but then it also depends on like where you are in the world
and what is your local jurisdiction like, and what is your local community like? And so there'd be
places that will, you know, it won't be as severe and then there'll be other places that will just
be fucking horrible and like specifically like the big cities on the coasts uh that are like
horribly run and have like huge populations like it's gonna be worse there and we're seeing that
in new york right now with like mom donnie like a just a vowed socialist or like never had a job
um likely winning the mayoral race there um these are like the early warning signs for this type of
thing. And I think it's important, specifically if you have a family, like, I think it's really
important to think about these things and plan for the worst and hope for the best, you know,
like maybe, maybe it doesn't, it's not as bad as it looks like. But I will say that, you know,
when you see smaller economies like Argentina and stuff go through hyperinflation, it's absolutely
brutal. Now imagine that with a global reserve currency and, uh, it should, it should be
significantly worse because, you know, the whole world relies on the dollar. Um, like
when Argent, when Argentina peso is failing, like people flood to the dollar and the dollar
is failing, where do you flood to? Well, like you have gold and you have Bitcoin. Um, so
it's good that we have that that that uh alternative that we have a good money because if you don't
have that then it'd be significantly worse you know uh thinking about that thinking about like
people fleeing to the dollar and in places in the global south where it's kind of their lifeline it
makes me think of my most valuable bitcoiner uh who is paulo from tether and in these kind of
situations like we don't want to see patterns hyperinflate but what who is your most valuable
bitcoiner you know just for 20 to 2025 and is it is it a podcaster um
i mean i think we're very lucky to have cali working on open source bitcoin stuff i think
cashew is fucking awesome i think it's been impressive to to watch it you know be an open
become an open protocol that is much bigger than just him um with many different wallets i think
his work on bitchat uh has been really cool too i think bitchat's pretty exciting um the other
zoomers in into in nepal were going full tally mode using bitchat to overthrow a very corrupt
state so it penny pretty cool progress in action right there um so i think that's pretty pretty
cool i think craig raw just like is just a constant fucking legend um like i fucking rely
on sparrow my businesses rely on sparrow open sats relies on sparrow my family relies on sparrow
like that fucking piece of software is unparalleled um so we're very lucky to have that um
but yeah i mean i think there's new what i was just going to say i think using sparrow like i
want to start i want to watch the term raw dogging cold storage raw dogging cell storage but as a
tribute to craig why would it be a tribute to craig because his last name is raw oh
thank you for explaining that to me
you're welcome
it's a great last name
it is a good last name
well yeah so one of the things we do on all our interviews is uh
we read the fountain booths from the previous episode the previous interview
nice we did
rob hamilton told you to listen to our last one it sounded like you didn't
we had portland huddle on i didn't listen to it no
what's your aversion to listening to 40 hours of bitcoin podcast um i think 40 hours is a little
bit aggressive i think like if you listen to like a humble like four hours a week it's pretty good
which ones i mean that's a good question um i've been listening to a mallard show a decent amount
now it's like weekly macro show you're not concerned with his broccoli haircut no i think
that a feature not a bug why um i don know i just being provocative i don really think about his haircut at all I think it pretty crazy how much success he found with that show so quickly
And it does cover, you know, I like it because it's like kind of like weekly topical news
and specifically macro stuff, which I've never been stronger on.
It has never been my strong suit.
I'll occasionally listen to Marty's shows
I'll occasionally listen to Danny's shows
It's hard not to listen to Marty's shows
When you see the open mouth thumbnail on YouTube
I fucking hate that
And Marty's not the only one guilty of that
But
The YouTube algorithm
Has just really
It's amazing what people do
For like a couple more listeners
I'm hoping that
I'm hoping that we can, you know, provide a more incentive aligned path with primal, um, on the video and the podcasting side.
And, um, because I fucking, I like, I hate those.
I hate the thumbnails.
I hate the clickbait.
Um,
You got me with the last episode of, uh, RHR.
I saw the open mouth thumbnails and clicked on it right away.
yeah well to be clear like i'm against our youtube uh on rhr um i don't handle that um
so how far how far do you think marty's gonna take it we don't do those thumbnails on the podcast
feed or on roster um the rhr uses marty's tftc youtube account um it always has it doesn't have
its own YouTube account.
And then like,
if you look at the exact opposite,
like Sill Dispatch,
which I manage,
like there's no clickbait,
there's no thumbnails,
and like we're basically
shadow banned on YouTube.
No ads.
Like YouTube prioritizes
in the algo
anything that shows YouTube ads.
So it's like,
you're kind of damned
if you do, damned if you don't.
It's a little,
it's a fucked up situation.
so I don't really blame
particularly people that are
like that's their main source of income
I think is where a lot of the issues stem from
because you just have to go to like the lowest
common denominator slot bullshit
I don't know what the solution to that is
maybe zaps play a piece
maybe algo choice and no algo stuff plays a piece
maybe webs of trust play a piece
but um it's like pretty dark where we are in like social landscape right now um and there's no easy
solutions like i don't it's not healthy whatever we're currently doing is not healthy but i don't
pretend to have the answers on like what the solution is i'm just curious how far it's gonna go
what do you mean well we're getting this weird you know people have their their ai girlfriends now
yeah that's a new thing yeah that's pretty dark yeah or like is marty gonna have to do
like bikini anime picture thumbnails in the future to grab attention like how far
does this go yeah i mean i don't think he will do that um but uh
on the ai sex bot stuff like i think i mean you want to talk about dark
I think if
if Elon releases
a robot
or releases a way
for you to have VR
sex that feels
as good as real sex or
close, like half
of society just like immediately checks out.
Like I think that's a pretty dark
path to think about. And it's probably
going to happen because there's definitely demand for it.
But
I wonder if
mechanical will think it's okay for core devs to have sex with the r bots what's your fascination
with core devs having sex it's not ours we're not we're just we're we took a stance that it's okay
for them to have sex that's really that's really big of you it's important yeah
some of the purity tests that goes they go too far
that's definitely true
well
Rod do you have anything before we go to the fountain booth
no let's do let's do the bursts
cool
so we interviewed
Portland Hoddle it was a great episode
he was he was the big
villain on
on Twitter for a little bit
yeah I mean I think what he did with the
trying to use,
intentionally use up the bandwidth
of people's home nodes
was pretty fucked up,
to be honest.
Well, he didn't do it.
He just talked about it.
Oh, well, if he did it,
it was fucked up.
I think he's writing a book
if I did it,
but he's just going to talk
about how the attack worked,
but he didn't actually do it.
And nobody's been able
to provide Comcast cable bills
to, you know,
corroborate the accusations.
we've seen no logs
fair enough
but yeah
it was a great interview
um
rob hamilton
first boost
21,000 sats
like 20
laughing emojis
what do you think
is rob hamilton's giggling
problematic
should you stop laughing
um
Rob can do what he wants to do
Rob's a friend
I definitely don't agree with him on everything
Do you agree with him on
Miniscript?
I think it's pretty cool
I mean it's really
It's cool what they were able to build with
Anchor Watch using it
I think it's like a
It doesn't make sense to me that
People
like care what a company's node preferences are
for like a non-consensus change.
I think that's a little bit weird,
but, you know, people like cancel culture stuff.
So maybe that's just more endemic of our current society.
On the giggle gate specifically,
I think it was like kind of a bad look
to laugh at node operators potentially getting
uh yeah node operators getting uh you know almost like ddos i guess but uh
you know i also think like people make big deals about things that don't really matter
yeah but so the next boost is from fundamentals and he's the you know i'll get into him in a
second but he boosted 10 000 sats um and his comment was the giggler is born so if you're
kind of piecing together the conversation we're having right now about rob and giggling and nodes
being attacked so a bunch of rowdy students from bitcoin university uh matthew cratter's
institution got really upset that robbed for laughing at the plight of com coast node com
cast nodes run by plebs so they were trying to cancel them and there's an ad in the uh in the
episode at the very beginning that people are referencing here in these boosts but um we covered
that already i wanted to cover real quickly on fundamentals um he's the author of bitcoin is for
institutions and he was in nashville we were all in nashville last summer at the rabbit hole recap
uh like bitcoin conference event the the at the bar yeah do you remember that do you remember like
the rose do you remember that comedian that was there do you remember that was david david lucas
And fundamentals, he was aggressive than I expected.
Anyway, continue.
Or as you find, I was loves podcasts.
And you just mentioned David being aggressive.
But fundamentals kind of has Odell derangement syndrome since that night because he thought that you were very grumpy and that you were not handling the the roast very well.
I'm curious to hear your thoughts firsthand about what you were thinking about on stage, because.
Were you, you know, were you like, I'm a podcaster, you can't be talking about me this way.
No, I think.
You know.
One of the coolest parts of the shows is, you know, interacting with people all around the world.
Like, I think the freaks are fucking awesome.
Like we have a really cool ride or die community of listeners.
And like, that's the single most positive part of, of the shows.
I mean, it's what keeps me going.
And the in-person shows are, are extra special because I mean, in this case, it was our largest
in-person show that we'd ever done independently.
So like not at a conference, I think it was like 600 people's like packed out room at this,
at this music venue in Nashville.
And we told people that it was family friendly
and that they can bring their family.
And he just gets up on stage.
And the first thing he says is there's a bunch of kids
in like the front row.
And he's like, you all should have been aborted.
And I was like, it just set me off in the wrong direction.
So I don't think I was,
I think grumpy is probably the wrong word for it.
I think it was more like,
and anger is not the right word either,
but it was like I was like
I was pretty pissed off at him
no it was fucked up
that's actually
yeah
that's David Lucas' shtick
I know I had no idea who he was though
like the pub key guys handled that part
um
I mean mostly the I mean I think the pub key
guys did a pretty good job with that event planning
and the best part was I didn't have to do
any of the planning so
um on that note
uh
Like they do, they do deserve credit for that.
Because I hate planning events.
Like that shit is a slog.
I was one of the co-founders of Bitcoin Park and we have an event going on right now.
It was a great show.
I had a good time It was a lot of fun right I hope you guys do more of those i think the live events are really uh really awesome yeah it a lot of fun so yeah it a lot a lot of people they they hug
it out when they're in person you know they argue on twitter they issue each other purity tests
when they're drinking beer together they hug it out feel better yeah no i think social media
really divides people in general um and that's another unsolved problem like i don't know how
we mitigate that make it a healthier experience for people i mean this this is what we try to
we try to constantly do with platter we just try to wish him a good day hope he has a good day
that's really it's really big of you guys i want to give him a hug i hope he shows up at the rhr
event i'll give him a big hug we'll smoke a cigarette together i mean he might have
He might have been there at the last one.
That already doesn't go to these events because he's,
somebody told him that crypto mags will tickle him.
And he doesn't,
he doesn't like to be tickled without consent.
How would you not want to be tickled by crypto mags?
All right.
Next boost.
What did Fundamental say?
Did you even say what Fundamental said?
He said the giggler was born.
Oh, the giggler was born.
Oh, yeah.
The giggler was a big hit.
I mean, you mentioned Odell derangement syndrome.
Like that's a real fucking thing.
I, uh, it's kind of crazy.
Um, that's a lot of people hate me now.
Kind of unexpected.
Yeah.
I think the people that the haters, what you need to realize is that
Bitcoin podcasters are important.
Where would Bitcoin be without Bitcoin podcasters?
Odell here is like one of the longest running Bitcoin podcasters
in the world.
He's going to be in the history books.
You know, people in the future,
they're going to think of,
you know, these important figures in history.
Alexander the Great,
George Washington,
Thomas Jefferson, Matt O'Dell.
I fucking hate you.
But thank you.
That was kind.
I will say,
I think a lot of it stems from
what people don't realize
is open science has probably rejected
like nearly 2,000 applications.
So I think behind most,
like most Odell haters
is a rejected open-sets application.
And they never say that's what it was.
They always make up some other reason for it.
Well, how many...
And it's funny because a lot of them
I've actually probably voted yes for,
but I'm the face, so they blame it on me.
Well, how many applications
has the Clinton Foundation
or the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation approved?
I don't know.
I don't think they're very transparent.
I don't know if we have that information.
It's interesting where some people's priorities are.
What do you mean?
Well, you know, there's these purity tests that are thrown at Bitcoin podcasters,
and then there's these people on the Epstein client list,
and it's like, where are you drawing all your energy?
Yeah, I think that's a good point.
And why are you sitting on the peanut gallery
hurling insults at Bitcoin podcasters when you don't even have a podcast?
like what ground do you have to stand on like sure yeah you can you can uh pass all the purity
tests when you're not even uh doing anything you know what i mean yeah i think that's true
you can't you can't criticize you can criticize anybody you want with the way that they're
spending your bitcoin if you never spent a sat
yeah i mean i just think it's it's weird where people
I, you know, it's people can focus their time wherever they want to focus their time, but
try and be productive.
Yeah.
Um, Shadrack, 10,093 sat says, thank you, gentlemen.
Long live the giggler hashtag 40 HPW.
Yeah.
Giggler was a hit for sure.
I really appreciate this following boost.
We got a very committed group of people.
Yeah, that's pretty good.
We don't have a name for them yet.
We don't call them freaks.
I think that's really disrespectful.
We do have a name for them.
We call them pioneers.
That's kind of our big thing.
We try to get people to stop identifying as, you know, retarded plebs
and realize that they're pioneers, that the UX, the user experience on the frontier
of separating money from state
and building a new global monetary standard.
The user experience is not going to be good.
It's not going to be easy.
We're pioneers when we either start acting like it
and start acting like floods.
I like pioneers.
Pioneers is a good one.
Go Pios.
Did you hear there's a new rival university out there,
the rival Bitcoin University.
It's called the University of Bitcoin.
It's actually a real credentialed university, and their mascot is the Pioneers.
That's great.
The more education, the better.
I mean, I don't know why you would go to an unaccredited university.
No way.
The next boost is from another Pioneer.
Late-stage HODL, 2,500 sats.
He says, Notre Dame's helmets are painted in gold.
As gold demonetizes, then Bitcoin fixes this, and then Notre Dame will have to foredo the paint to stack sets.
That's a good point.
Demonetization, the dollar falling apart, Bitcoin taking over, it's going to have an impact on college sports.
They're not going to be able to pay student athletes millions of dollars to play sports ball every Saturday.
They're going to have to fund Bitcoin podcasters and the infrastructure for education a little bit more deliberately.
Notre Dame is such a loser school.
What's your opinion on sports ball?
You got a favorite sports ball team?
You like sports ball?
I used to be a big Giants fan.
COVID kind of broke it all for me.
I think also at the same time, we started a family and I became a dad and have a lot of work stuff as well.
So, like, it's just, it's hard for me to devote much time to it.
I, like, kind of got, like, burnt out from it.
But, like, the whole way, like, all the leagues, like, fucked around with their players.
and, you know, were very, like, propaganda-driven
on the, like, vaccine side and stuff,
like, kind of really broke it for me.
I do, I watched F1 a decent amount.
Wouldn't racing be better if they allowed cigarette companies
to sponsor cars?
Yeah, they used to.
They don't anymore, I don't think, right?
I mean I think it's kind of funny
I think Bitcoin podcasters should have to wear
like the F1 uniforms
like all the different sponsors on them
kind of like the swan forcers
back in the day
yeah you should have to wear the sponsors all over
all over your clothing
be very obvious
I mean I like F1 because like it's
first of all I think it's
it's just a cool sport
but second of all
just like the fact that like it's one of the few ones
where you can actually like still die in them which i think it keeps it well for a while there
a lot of players on the football field and other sports were dying because they need them get
vaccinated yeah you can die podcasting these days pretty crazy that's true too i like going to live
sports you know i've been watching way less tv in general so i like live sports are fun live music
is fun like it's just cool being at events you should be able to do a live podcast yeah have a
live podcast studio it's a great idea well let's blast through these booths uh team satoshi double
boosted us so thank you for your time everything satoshi 500 sat says the people complaining about
portland huddle are people who missed out on bitcoin twitter spaces during the bear market
the 69 to 15k era some of the stuff mentioned in those spaces can't be discussed today courtesy
of the oversensitive less bitcoin educated suit coiners and noobs i support nods datum and ocean
but matthew cratter was wrong about this one love cratter though well it's nice that you love
matthew no real quick before we blast you the rest of these we forgot to ask you what is your
how do you feel about suit coiners are you a fan of the suit coiners are you some people think you
may have coined the term suit coiner although creditor takes credit um what are your thoughts
there i think i might have been the first person to say it but also i don't really give a shit
what? Joe's looking at me
do we never admit you're in the room?
I think I was the first person to say suit corners
I have my Twitter archive
so I can pull up the date
but anyway it doesn't really matter
I like just putting words in front of coiners
so like pre-coiners, no corners
I mean obviously I didn't come up with the term no corners
Bitcoin deniers
but the suit coiners
look I think
I think they're aligned
obviously because of Bitcoin
alignment like what we talked about earlier
I do think
everyone's welcome to do
whatever they want but this whole
leverage Bitcoin equity
MSTR strategy play is
not interesting to me
I think Saylor has absolutely
crushed the game on that front
It's like very much MSTR and then everyone else.
But at this point, it's like clearly like a bottom tier grift on like a bunch of these plays.
And it's like everybody is like just selling out and like launching some random fucking Bitcoin penny stock
that doesn't actually like have an operating business.
It doesn't actually like, you know.
Um they and then they implicitly try and get you to buy the stock instead of Bitcoin Um so it it pretty lame It kind of boring I don think it bad for Bitcoin
I think it probably broke the,
any remainder of moral high ground
that like the online Bitcoin maximalism community had.
Like how can you, you know,
you know, I think actions speak louder than words
and it's like, it's,
i i mean i'd rather not name names uh but like
i don't know like a lot of these are just fucking
just fucking garbage and people are just in it to like hopefully get rich quick uh at the expense
of whatever their audience is uh because i mean you look at like the the boards and stuff and it's
It's like, oh, who has the most Twitter followers?
We'll just draft you in.
I appreciate you not naming names.
We don't.
Do you?
We don't allow anti-souanitism on the podcast.
I don't know.
I think like having a formalized influencer draft is a great idea.
I mean, that's basically what it kind of, you guys should do that.
Like, that's how, what it feels like.
It feels like all these people are like free agents and they're getting drafted by whichever penny stock gives them the best deal.
But yeah, look, at the end of the day, I'm also a free market guy.
So people have the right to get wrecked and they should, you know, take personal responsibility for their actions.
and obviously
you know more demand for Bitcoin
helps all Bitcoiners because we see
our purchasing power increase and
I don't know like some people would prefer
to be poor like I'd rather
my purchasing power or my money increase
it makes everything easier in life
if your savings
can buy more shit
over time
well let me blast through the rest of these
God's death
237 sats says thank you gentlemen pies 121 sats you know pies right
i don't know what you're talking about oh you don't know that nostril user pies
oh yeah yeah of course says yo yo yo salute strong arm mushroom emoji hashtag 40 hpw
dave 100 sats says we ain't going nowhere we ain't going nowhere we can't be stopped now because
it's bad boy for life
CPOBV
Average Gary 100 Sat says
there's a Bitcoin underground on Noster
that Portland HODL is missing out on
yeah we gave Portland a hard time for not being on Noster
yeah I mean
it's weird that more Bitcoiners
don't use it but
you know network effects are a bitch
and
A lot of people are obsessed with engagement.
So until we get more users, those people will not use Oster.
It doesn't really even matter what the UX is like.
Yeah.
Average Gary, 100 sats.
Says like a heart hand symbol emoji.
Bitcoin Golf Pro, 100 sats.
Says greatness.
Thank you.
BTC on board, 100 sats.
Good friend, BTC on board.
Glad you listened.
Three laughing emojis.
And that's it, folks.
for the fountain base mr rodell you're a true pioneer thank you sir i feel i feel like i'm
talking to an elder statesman right now any advice for for people who it's going to be hard not to be
grumpy i have a feeling the next few years what is your advice for people to to break past the grumps
be happy and optimistic about the future why do you think it's going to be hard not to be grumpy
well you're not on x but if you have been paying attention and monitoring the situation the world
is not not going in a great direction right now um yeah i mean i tend to agree with that but i think
uh uh on the bitcoin side we're probably in the best bitcoin timeline
um it's hard to imagine bitcoin being in a better place right now
uh so i think people should find uh joy in that and not take it for granted um it's really weird
like this is the first real bull market where like the bitcoin prices as the bitcoin price is
increasing like people are getting more mad right like we used to be happy together and i think part
it is also because like of the bitcoin penny stocks because like sometimes you know the penny
stock pumps and bitcoin doesn't pump so the penny stock people are happy and then sometimes bitcoin
pumps but the penny stock doesn't pump so then the penny stock people are upset um so like we're not
like as all in it together in terms of like uh our bags at the same time it's like very much like a
shitcoin dynamic in that regard right like solana solana dumps from bitcoin pumps you know um so
it's like an interesting phenomenon how much rage there's been but i think it's probably going to be
even more rageful like it's going to be so just like enjoy the pump you know uh enjoy enjoy enjoy
bitcoin being adopted and increasing and in use and and purchasing power is just awesome to see
And then the second piece is like, I find a lot of hope in, in the open source movement.
Um, I, I think ultimately like giving people agency over their lives and, and independence
and, and freedom to choose how they live their digital lives is, uh, something that will
result in, in better human flourishing and, and, and just better, you know, better results
for individuals themselves.
So that's where I focus most of my time.
um to me i there's you know real optimism there and it's actionable and something that i can
actually change and then last but not least like you know i have a i have a growing young family and
uh that's fucking awesome i i i it's an incredibly exhausting rewarding beautiful experience
um and so like focus on the things that you can change focus on what matters
and enjoy the little things.
Don't get caught up in all the bullshit out there
because there's so much fucking bullshit.
People just get angry about things that just don't matter.
Yeah.
If my final thoughts on that is,
if you thought hyper-Bitcoinization was going to be easy,
you did not.
You're not listening to 40 hours of Bitcoin podcasts per week.
Thank you, Mr. O'Dell, for coming on.
Thank you for having me, gentlemen.
anytime i i enjoyed it and uh very lucky in the bitcoin community to have the boys of the bugle
providing us prevention for this journalism thank you marty bent says this time is different
bitcoin is one and it is magnificent governments are buying so why aren't you don't you want to be
Rich and cool.
Odell is confused and doesn't think Lenny's hot.
He's a gay bear who needs to be taught.
Staying humble is cool during the bear market.
But this is the bull.
It's going up like a rocket.
The future is bullish because Bitcoin has won.
It's been a tough bear market.
Get ready for some fun.
The future is bullish when Trump shit coins.
Game theory is in progress, everyone will join
Plebs and podcasters are the vanguard
The world is going to use a Bitcoin standard
A Bitcoin standard
If you think about it closely
Matt is plain wrong
We'll have a bright future
Because Bitcoiners are strong
We are all about to get rich
Beyond our imaginations
But casters will be royalty
Deciding the fate of nations
So will this time be different?
Only time will tell
Are we walking into heaven?
Or are we ushering in hell? The spooks are here and they don't play by the rules
You can see if you pay attention to the clues
Bitcoin will go up-priced in USDT
That doesn't mean that we will necessarily be free
Wanting wealth and comfort is not a sin
People are tired, they just wanna catch a win
The future is bullish when Trump shit coins gain theory
is in progress everyone will join plebs and podcasters are the vanguard the world is going to
use a bitcoin standard odalax faith in good old dennis porter he's orange pulling the world
ushering in order 70 approval rating is no small feat he makes bitcoin go up with breaking tweets
Remember all the people who were lazy
Didn't listen to podcasts and called us crazy
Back then we listened to 40 hours every week
Hearing Matt and Marty call us freaks
They listened to their podcast while they were poor
Bitcoin started pumping and their prospects began to soar
Marty Ben says his time is different
And I think he might be right
But Matt's a gaybird thinking adversarially
Still ready for a fight
The future is bullish when Trump shit coins
Game theory is in progress, everyone will join
Plebs and podcasters are the vanguard
The world is going to use a Bitcoin standard
To use a Bitcoin standard
Bye.