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Welcome back to another episode of this intellectual Silk Road edition of the Pew

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Weekly Bitcoin podcast. Today is a special interview. We are with the champ, the winner

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of the inaugural Maxi Madness Noster edition.

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Now, before Maxi Madness really kicked into the later,

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the final four, the championship round,

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I said that Noster, because of the zap structure of the vote,

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where you can vote with your zaps instead of one man, one vote,

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one end pub, one vote,

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I said that this was social capital price discovery.

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And that's exactly what it turned out to be.

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Because the social capitalist, Rev Hoddle, is joining us today.

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He's proven that the Maxi Madness can be and was a smashing success.

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Thank you to the primal developers, to Mijan, Paul Keating, all the guys over there who made this possible.

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Rev, how's it going?

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Are you still feeling the afterglow of your win?

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I saw you had a corny chat last night in the winner's circle.

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How's it been since last week when you took home all the glory?

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Oh, well, I'm still recovering.

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You know, it's good to be able to talk about it while it's still fresh.

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But, yeah, it takes a lot of work to participate in Maxi Madness.

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If anyone listened to the Twitter spaces with Aaron and Casey, it sounds like they had spent quite a bit of time participating as well.

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And I think that's just what it takes in order to win.

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You have to really prove that you're the one having the most fun, you know.

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So I had a little bit of fun last night kind of just explaining my strategy and how I used permaculture, the lens through which to view the competition.

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And I think that's how I came up with the winning strategy.

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But I was by no means doing it by myself.

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Like you said, the social capital was the key component in pulling it all together.

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Can you explain what you mean by it?

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Because you talked about this in Corny Chat last night about permaculture

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and how it relates to Maxi Madness and your path to victory

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over you you beat a very hot person in the championship uh an international sensation

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just got off tour with sabaton in europe singing and you you soundly defeated noah

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so can you explain how this works and why you think that you this permaculture phenomenon

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is what vaulted you to the championship.

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Well, in permaculture, there's three ethics,

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earth care, people care,

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and the third ethic I call non-extraction.

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And the non-extraction ethic is a big component of this,

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especially when you tie in the game theory

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of the prediction markets, the predix market.

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In addition to that, permaculture operates

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with this viewpoint of systems succeeding

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from one phase to the next.

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And so in order to, in the instance of Maxi Madness, the whole tournament is a series of rounds.

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In each round, as you win, you succeed into the next round.

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But each round is different than the round before it.

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So a new strategy must be employed in order to take that round down.

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And so in permaculture, we also talk about these mixtures of plants working together in ecosystem.

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We call that a polyculture.

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And so when you look at the social capital that I employed in order to take down the whole thing, I viewed the different, I guess, pools of social capital that I had built up either through Noster, through these group chats, or through the meetups that I go to as different plants, you could say, in this ecosystem of like a food forest.

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And so it was a whole thought process of how and when to utilize each pool of social capital, each plant in this polyculture system, and choose when to deploy those to glean the yields from that based on what process of succession, what part of the succession in the tournament it was.

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it's very cool uh it was fun to to watch it you know from behind the scenes and and just see it

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all play out i was very active in the group chats you were very active in the group chats now

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the question i have for you do you feel like you spent all your social capital

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did you gain social capital do you have to refill your social capital

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what's the you know kind of the process of next steps for you after this victory

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well so and a big part of my strategy was to create incentives for people to participate and

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you know the Mestadel really won this thing um the Mestadel was the group chat that took down

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Odell in the semifinals but they were there right with me the whole time I mean if you go back and

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look at the results you see these names from the Mestadel they were boosting big without me

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sort of asking for any favors the whole time.

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But, you know, I did have to eventually say,

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look, if I'm going to win,

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I need to, you know, sweeten the deal a little bit.

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And so I offered up to the Mestradel,

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like if you vote, max vote,

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you can get a jar of maple syrup from me,

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a pack of my cannabis seeds,

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a free ticket to Lake Satoshi,

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a bag of Otis Bickmeyer coffee.

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And these are items that we have already been exchanging

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in the Mestradel anyways.

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And so it's not, this comes back to the whole non-extraction thing.

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I could have chosen to extract from my social capital base.

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And like you said, then I would be in a deficit and I would have to replenish it.

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But instead, I created a more of a holistic approach where now, the way I was thinking about it is I was basically selling these items and then donating the sats to the Bugle through their vote.

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and then we get to participate in this tournament

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and everybody sort of wins all through across the board.

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Very cool.

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How's your wife feel about your victory?

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Well, she doesn't have much to say about it, unfortunately.

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She's not that excited.

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You don't feel like you have bragging rights?

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It hasn't changed any of the home dynamics of, you know,

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her looking at you differently?

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well you know the the glitter in my eye is is uh definitely a little brighter now that i'm the

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champion and she does recognize that but uh you know i don't think she attributes it to maxi

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madness she just looks at me and says oh maybe something's a little different today

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but you mentioned this polyculture and i assume that does not mean multiple sexual partners

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you're still a loyal uh you know husband this is polyculture just means different

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different logos different types of call like different meetups what does this explain this

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a little bit more uh thoroughly so a polyculture in a food forest for example is when you have um

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There's seven layers to a forest, right?

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You got your ground cover layer, which would be something like strawberries.

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And then you've got the herbaceous layer, which would be something like comfrey or rhubarb or horseradish.

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And then you've got your shrub layer, which would be something like currants or gooseberries.

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And then you got your understory layer, which might be something like hazelnuts.

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And then in my food forest, the overstory layer is the fruit tree.

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And so these plants can all grow together cooperatively because they take up a different size and shape of that understory beneath the tree.

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So they're not inherently competing with each other.

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They're all working cooperatively.

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And so this is how you can pack a lot of yields into a small footprint.

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And so the same can be true of your social capital, right?

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I looked at the social capital that I had in the Mastodal as one part of that layer of the food forest, of the social capital forest.

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and then my local connections,

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the hyper-local stuff from everyone that I knew

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going to the meetups was another layer.

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And then the Noster community

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that I participate in was another layer.

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And so I had access to all these different layers.

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They're all kind of intersecting and working together

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and connected together in one way or another,

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but they do come,

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they form this holistic viewpoint,

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which is Bitcoin culture.

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What is the optimal stack

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in a seven-layer salad

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of the forest.

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I think I would want

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strawberries,

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rebarb,

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feast berries,

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hazelnuts.

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How would you finish out that stack?

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Tobacco.

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Tobacco.

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Where is tobacco?

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Which layer is the tobacco?

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I think tobacco is probably

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somewhere between

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the herbaceous layer

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and the shrub layer.

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It grows pretty big,

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but it is an annual.

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Mmm.

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that's a good that's that's important to know it's that's hard to keep up with if you're playing

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annuals and so you know if you look at like um if you take something like tobacco and you try and equate it to uh Bitcoin culture right It something that everybody wants but isn necessarily coming to every meetup

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you know what I mean? Or not always active in the group chat, but like tobacco is the plant that

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just says like, Hey, I've been head down vibe coding and I just made this new app and boom,

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here you go. And the addiction is on, right? And everyone wants more of what tobacco has to offer,

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but it's not there perennially, right?

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It's only there, you have to cultivate the tobacco.

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Whereas these other plants are perennial,

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so they just are, as long as you participate with them

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and you interact with them, they're around

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and they're there to, and in the lens of the social capital

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like we've been talking about,

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that social capital continues to liquidate

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amongst the whole polyculture, right?

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Everyone's trading between themselves.

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the one of the user experience hurdles that the maxi madness nostril tournament had to overcome

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and had to have some playoff rounds playing you know to to make up for is primal has a

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web of trust and a web of trust can filter out some people who are maybe just creating

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endpubs to zap more than once or something to kind of create like a civil attack sort of um

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give the impression of such anyways um but thinking about a web of trust on nostr where

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that is much more customizable than it is on some a platform like x and it kind of relates to these

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communities these permaculture type of situations that you're developing have you

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explored kind of this this customization or this optimization on on nostra or your group chats with

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this web of trust where you have layers of group chats for example with like the mesh del and some

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of your other more trusted confidants and then it layers out from there where like a new person

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coming into your your space or your sphere so to speak kind of has to go through these layers of

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the web of trust before it gets down into your most cherished group chats well sure yeah absolutely

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and and through the lens of the the tournament let's say through through the lens of maxi madness

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This is how I chose to when to tap, right, when to utilize my social capital in which particular circle. I knew that I needed to save my local homies until the very end because that once I didn't even really tell anyone locally that this thing was going on until I was in the finals.

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So now when I'm in the finals, I present, look, I'm in the finals.

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If you want to take me across the finish line, here's how we do it.

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And people got excited about that.

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If I had let them know that I was in the tournament right from the beginning,

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I might have expended that social capital too soon.

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And so, yeah, there's just different relationships that you have,

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and it does filter on down through for sure.

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Absolutely.

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what what was your impression of how did how did nostor receive maxi madness

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i think that it was uh about as uh 50 50 as you could have expected um a lot of people were excited

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about it and and having fun with it and a lot of people wanted to like found it to be incredibly

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annoying and how to get it to go away and you know when i was like hey dude this is going to

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be happening for, you know, the next week or something, they're just like, oh, God, how do I,

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do I have to mute you? You know, it's like, well, you can, but I'm going to be posting about this,

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you know, because I think, as you guys say, it's the most important election, right? It is important.

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And it's a distillation. It's a way of anecdotally assessing what a particular community sees as

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valuable. Whether you want to say that the results were gamed or not or whatever, right?

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It is ultimately like the Twitter championship. That shows that people do value data on chain,

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right? To me, anecdotally, that's what the result of that tournament suggests. Like,

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the Bitcoin culture right now appreciates that shit. And they don't care about BIP110 and they

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don't care about podconf and swan or whatever right and the no stir tournament showed that

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people care about people interacting in this grassroots level running meetups doing podcasting

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uh focusing on building circular economies right absolutely i mean the the two individuals in the

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championship were neither of them were podconf affiliated uh and i would consider your matchup

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against Odell in the final four as a referendum against Podcoff.

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Would you agree?

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Well, yeah, and so this kind of gets back into this whole

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non-extraction principle, right?

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And where it wasn't me versus Odell.

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It was me versus Predix, right?

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So I knew that there was some people with money on the line over on Predix,

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and I think that they had a cakewalk, dude.

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I think that they were expecting that, you know,

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all they they however someone had figured out i'm not going to say who right but i think someone

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knew how to get by the this web of trust system that primal had put up and they could influence

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the votes right they could juice it up with some some some nent pumps that they spun up

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and so once i realized that i was like okay this is who i'm competing against i'm not competing

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against Matt Odell.

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I'm here to prove that, like,

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you have no idea

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when some dude who's connected

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in the community,

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if they unleash their social capital,

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that you're going to have a hard time,

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you know,

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pushing the results

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of this prediction market

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to your favor.

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And we accomplished that.

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Domestadol totally shut

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that prediction market down,

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proved it wrong.

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Absolutely.

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You know, you paid attention

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to the Twitter maxi madness.

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is the dynamics were incredibly different the mechanisms were incredibly different

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what what do you what was your perspective on that of of the happenings on twitter

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versus the happenings on nostr like how how do you see the dynamics as different

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i think that like the just the fact that people have to put sats on the line

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in Noster sort of changes the way that people are participating.

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Because you can, so a lot of the, if you want to win, right,

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you have to have a community rallying around you.

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And so in Twitter, you have to have a large community, right?

228
00:17:16,940 --> 00:17:20,580
You could have a small community of very dedicated fans, right?

229
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,600
And they're all going to vote for you every time.

230
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:31,020
But their vote doesn't have much weight because somebody else can just access their larger user base or fan base or whatever.

231
00:17:31,140 --> 00:17:37,160
They have a larger form of social capital where everyone can just click one button for free and vote.

232
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:45,940
Whereas on Noster, it shows like how much people are willing to put down for you, like how much they really appreciate you, right?

233
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,160
And what you represent for Bitcoin.

234
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:53,520
you know because like right at the beginning I knew that I was pretty popular on Noster right I

235
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,920
participate on Noster I've been doing it for several years I went to the first Nosterville

236
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and you know right off the bat I against Jack Dorsey I didn't try to do anything right I just

237
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this is another permaculture principle right observe and interact I just wanted to see what

238
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would happen round one and just watch that play out now I eked it out by about 200 sats maybe 250

239
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:23,180
sats that was a super close round but that was just purely um the noster community saying like

240
00:18:23,180 --> 00:18:28,460
yeah dude you're around and you're participating in noster where did jack dorsey go you know why

241
00:18:28,460 --> 00:18:35,620
would i put my sats down for that guy um he you know so yeah it's the the difference is that

242
00:18:35,620 --> 00:18:43,040
the someone's audience or their their social capital base can uh really show how much they

243
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:50,160
care. One vote can mean a lot. One person can do a lot more on Twitter than on, or on NOSTER than

244
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:59,380
on Twitter. Yeah, I'm excited. I like that there is, there's more options with NOSTER.

245
00:19:01,060 --> 00:19:06,900
And the big thing that I want to try and do for next year that, you know, I'll, I don't have

246
00:19:06,900 --> 00:19:11,960
confirmed that they'll do it, but one of the things I really like to do is to do splits in the polls.

247
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for the individuals participating.

248
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:16,060
So there's a little bit more of an incentive

249
00:19:16,060 --> 00:19:17,400
for them to participate,

250
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:24,420
to try and earn zaps, essentially.

251
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,460
So the way I think it would be is like,

252
00:19:27,460 --> 00:19:29,420
you know, the Beagle would get a portion

253
00:19:29,420 --> 00:19:31,080
and both of the participants would.

254
00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:34,241
And so the incentive is to continue to compete

255
00:19:34,241 --> 00:19:39,840
until the finals to be able to earn more zaps.

256
00:19:40,100 --> 00:19:41,200
And I think that'd be fun.

257
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:47,420
i think that would get people's buy-in a little bit more and that'd be a cool function that this

258
00:19:47,420 --> 00:19:53,460
one was you know it all happened so last minute like the the primal team pushed this update allowing

259
00:19:53,460 --> 00:20:05,441
us to do these polls i think maybe a few days if not a week prior So there wasn a ton of thinking into the mechanics of how it worked

260
00:20:05,501 --> 00:20:06,701
It was very experimental.

261
00:20:08,881 --> 00:20:12,761
Yeah, there's some interesting, it's really hard to think about what's going to happen, right?

262
00:20:12,781 --> 00:20:15,561
And I'm sure you guys had no idea how it was going to play out,

263
00:20:15,981 --> 00:20:18,601
how big people are going to zap, what was really going to go down.

264
00:20:18,601 --> 00:20:24,761
And if you start to filter some of that, so this comes back into permaculture.

265
00:20:24,881 --> 00:20:27,841
Once again, there's self-regulate, accept, and apply feedback.

266
00:20:28,061 --> 00:20:33,041
And if you put the zap split in there, now you've got a feedback loop going, right?

267
00:20:33,101 --> 00:20:36,701
So if someone wins and now they've got a whole bunch of sats, right,

268
00:20:36,761 --> 00:20:41,401
now they can essentially offer these incentives like what I was doing for free.

269
00:20:41,821 --> 00:20:47,341
And so you give each round kind of snowballs, has this potential snowballing effect.

270
00:20:47,341 --> 00:21:01,121
As the participant, you have to make the choice. Do I keep the sats or do I use the sats to continue to create incentives for my social cap, my base of voters, right, or people who are participating to keep zapping big?

271
00:21:01,121 --> 00:21:08,781
do you think that democracy should be run more like maxi madness do you think that

272
00:21:08,781 --> 00:21:16,181
every november for one week we should have a bracket of 64 politicians and they have to go

273
00:21:16,181 --> 00:21:20,261
through each round until we finally get down to the last two and that's who we both were for

274
00:21:20,261 --> 00:21:25,681
president and we can vote do you think we should do that like with one man one vote or we should do

275
00:21:25,681 --> 00:21:32,641
with zaps like on the roster i think like what maxi madness shows is that you know this is what

276
00:21:32,641 --> 00:21:37,721
the new government looks like when democracy fail like when when fiat system breaks down and all the

277
00:21:37,721 --> 00:21:44,201
hits the fan uh this is how we organize right because like jason lorie right the whole idea of

278
00:21:44,201 --> 00:21:50,281
power projection through bitcoin like that was the meshadel right there you know the meshadel was

279
00:21:50,281 --> 00:21:57,521
like look we we've got a dedicated group willing to project power uh through this tournament and

280
00:21:57,521 --> 00:22:03,201
and win you know and so there was no violence right but in the end of the day there was some

281
00:22:03,201 --> 00:22:07,881
serious power projection going on there i mean what was it uh almost a million sats or over a

282
00:22:07,881 --> 00:22:12,641
million sats on that semi-final round that's uh not that's that's generational wealth right

283
00:22:12,641 --> 00:22:20,261
so are you saying that the match to dell declared soft war on maxi madness and what

284
00:22:20,261 --> 00:22:26,741
i'm saying that the that uh you know the whole maxi madness thing is software

285
00:22:26,741 --> 00:22:34,301
war right and this is how uh you project power that's an interesting way to frame it and i

286
00:22:34,301 --> 00:22:41,881
didn't think about it prior to the beginning of maxi madness but a few rounds in i realized holy

287
00:22:41,881 --> 00:22:49,021
shit this is we are in the middle of you know software one there's going to be future softwares

288
00:22:49,021 --> 00:22:54,081
and I don't know if it's going to be 10 years from now, Maxi Manus, but this was the first

289
00:22:54,081 --> 00:23:05,321
soft war and there was almost as many casualties in soft war one as world war one.

290
00:23:05,321 --> 00:23:10,401
The amount of crash outs, the amount of crash outs in the trenches, the amount of crash

291
00:23:10,401 --> 00:23:11,201
outs on the time.

292
00:23:11,301 --> 00:23:16,961
It was, you've heard of the book, All's Quiet on the Western Front.

293
00:23:17,441 --> 00:23:18,401
It was kind of the opposite.

294
00:23:19,021 --> 00:23:21,401
All is crazy.

295
00:23:21,741 --> 00:23:27,661
All is chaotic on the timeline front during Maxi Madness, during Software 1,

296
00:23:27,741 --> 00:23:30,701
because people were crashing out left and right.

297
00:23:30,741 --> 00:23:31,961
It was like a machine gun.

298
00:23:33,041 --> 00:23:36,681
A guy in one of those pillboxes just mowing down plebs,

299
00:23:36,941 --> 00:23:38,221
and they were just crashing out.

300
00:23:38,221 --> 00:23:45,101
And I saw the crash outs, the huge amount of crash outs on Twitter.

301
00:23:45,361 --> 00:23:47,261
I saw some on Noster.

302
00:23:47,781 --> 00:23:48,801
I didn't see them all.

303
00:23:49,021 --> 00:23:57,961
But my assessment about you saying it was about 50-50 was roughly accurate based on my observations.

304
00:23:58,921 --> 00:24:04,801
And do you think that that contributes to the success of Maxi Madness?

305
00:24:04,801 --> 00:24:11,641
Having a sell side and a buy side, people who are buying in and people who are like, fade this noise.

306
00:24:11,921 --> 00:24:12,621
I hate this.

307
00:24:12,621 --> 00:24:23,041
And their annoyance, their crashing out, brings more attention, brings more eyes and realizes, holy shit, there's a lot of social capital on the line.

308
00:24:23,181 --> 00:24:24,421
I have to pay attention to this.

309
00:24:24,501 --> 00:24:28,181
I have to put my bets in on the prediction markets.

310
00:24:28,281 --> 00:24:29,721
I have to be involved in this somehow.

311
00:24:29,901 --> 00:24:37,421
I thought it was stupid, but now I'm realizing that there's a situation going on and it is in my best interest to be monitoring it very closely.

312
00:24:37,421 --> 00:24:43,161
Well, and you know, there's other people that are going to be monitoring who voted for it.

313
00:24:43,261 --> 00:24:46,601
So the beautiful thing about the Nostra polls, too, is that the votes were public, right?

314
00:24:46,921 --> 00:24:50,361
So I could go back and see like, oh, this dude voted against me.

315
00:24:51,121 --> 00:24:51,521
Why?

316
00:24:51,881 --> 00:24:53,821
You know, it brings up questions, right?

317
00:24:54,121 --> 00:25:00,061
Where I could see that, oh, this person's really involved in the culture, but they didn't participate at all.

318
00:25:00,181 --> 00:25:00,461
Why?

319
00:25:00,801 --> 00:25:07,261
And so this definitely adds a whole other layer of, you know, when it comes down to it.

320
00:25:07,421 --> 00:25:13,361
talk about crash outs and everything you kind of like if you don't participate now it's it's

321
00:25:13,361 --> 00:25:20,621
clear that you didn't and that's like a crash out in itself right what was your favorite crash out

322
00:25:20,621 --> 00:25:28,021
that you saw oh that's a good question i mean it's got to be uh my homie uh kid warp so kid

323
00:25:28,021 --> 00:25:35,041
warp is uh he's he's local kind of to me and uh i i know him personally and he was just like dude

324
00:25:35,041 --> 00:25:41,041
this is so fucking annoying man and he was like when is this going to end and he he he it wasn't

325
00:25:41,041 --> 00:25:45,901
like he couldn't let it go right he wanted to continue to post about not liking it and so that

326
00:25:45,901 --> 00:25:50,061
is it's like dude when you don't like something that much that you can't stop you realize that

327
00:25:50,061 --> 00:25:53,861
you're feeding the beast here you know you got to just if you don't like it you can't say anything

328
00:25:53,861 --> 00:25:56,601
about it otherwise other people are gonna be what's going on and they're gonna start getting

329
00:25:56,601 --> 00:26:01,001
riled up into it and so he had the opposite effect of what i think he was hoping for was that

330
00:26:01,001 --> 00:26:04,921
he wanted everyone to boycott it or something or just stop talking about it but in reality

331
00:26:04,921 --> 00:26:11,061
him saying something really stoked the flames of it all what do you think his protest was i mean

332
00:26:11,061 --> 00:26:16,801
ron and i were speculating about this on the last episode you know nostril users aren't really used to

333
00:26:16,801 --> 00:26:21,981
any sort of real activity on the platform right like they're used to like

334
00:26:21,981 --> 00:26:28,681
occasional good morning posts you know very light farting around on the app

335
00:26:28,681 --> 00:26:36,061
you think it was just over stimulating for them or what what was the the issue that they saw with

336
00:26:36,061 --> 00:26:43,261
it that people were getting zaps or it wasn't them well yeah it's just like somebody came and

337
00:26:43,261 --> 00:26:48,001
take over it's just like you know you got your your neighborhood right and and like someone's

338
00:26:48,001 --> 00:26:52,741
rolling through with the boom truck right with the boom trunk fucking playing their music fucking

339
00:26:52,741 --> 00:26:56,541
And forcing everyone to look at them as they roll by.

340
00:26:56,701 --> 00:27:00,001
It's like, out of nowhere, I don't think anyone was ready for it.

341
00:27:00,561 --> 00:27:03,201
And it was unavoidable.

342
00:27:03,321 --> 00:27:06,421
Anywhere you look, you're going to see something about Maxi Madness while it's going on.

343
00:27:07,861 --> 00:27:10,341
So what do you think we should do in the future?

344
00:27:10,341 --> 00:27:17,541
Should we put PSAs out before to shelter in place for the week if they aren't excited about it?

345
00:27:17,601 --> 00:27:19,081
Or go on vacation or something?

346
00:27:20,641 --> 00:27:22,361
Yeah, the war is imminent.

347
00:27:22,361 --> 00:27:33,641
I don't know if it's good to keep on the Jason Lurie software meme here, but, like, it is, you got to prepare Noster for this shit because they clearly weren't prepared.

348
00:27:34,921 --> 00:27:45,841
I think a good strategy would be, there's no, this is a software, but if we map it to real world physical conflict, kinetic warfare,

349
00:27:45,841 --> 00:27:57,481
There is no military more competent and skilled at what they do than the Israeli Defense Forces, the IDF.

350
00:27:57,481 --> 00:28:11,741
And what they do in Gaza and in Lebanon and these other places is they they give everybody a 10 minute warning where they they send in these these precision guided projectiles that basically dump really hard.

351
00:28:11,881 --> 00:28:17,861
And they say, hey, you have X amount of time to get out of here because we're killing terrorists if you don't.

352
00:28:17,861 --> 00:28:27,801
And giving Noster kind of like the IDF courtesy announcement that, hey, Maxi Madness is about to start and it's going to go for a week.

353
00:28:28,661 --> 00:28:29,261
Get out of it.

354
00:28:29,261 --> 00:28:30,421
Go to Blue Sky.

355
00:28:31,321 --> 00:28:32,421
Go to Reddit.

356
00:28:32,761 --> 00:28:34,441
Go to, you know, don't go to X.

357
00:28:34,821 --> 00:28:35,681
Go to Facebook.

358
00:28:36,281 --> 00:28:38,921
Go somewhere else and shelter in place.

359
00:28:39,361 --> 00:28:41,141
Or take cover in the group chats.

360
00:28:41,141 --> 00:28:47,421
And I think maybe that's the answer is people need to just bunker down in the group chats during Maxi Madness to keep their sanity.

361
00:28:47,421 --> 00:28:57,021
Because if you isolate yourself or you get stuck on Facebook with a bunch of boomers freaking out about some AI slot that they fell for, you're going to probably crash out over there, too.

362
00:28:57,261 --> 00:29:00,501
The place where you're least likely to crash out is the group chats.

363
00:29:01,501 --> 00:29:10,641
Yeah, maybe the best way to go about it would be to take the committee and start to, as they're making their picks, sort of tease that a little bit, right?

364
00:29:10,901 --> 00:29:14,421
And you don't release the whole bracket right away, but you put some spoilers out there.

365
00:29:14,421 --> 00:29:19,781
you know like Odell's back you know he's gonna and so that's a way to ease into maxi madness get

366
00:29:19,781 --> 00:29:25,101
some awareness about it the bracket slowly builds up over time and that leads into the actual

367
00:29:25,101 --> 00:29:32,641
tournament. Interesting you know there's a lot of dynamics to uh you know explore here you know for

368
00:29:32,641 --> 00:29:36,961
the for the individuals that you know were very unhappy with what you said with us taking over

369
00:29:36,961 --> 00:29:43,061
their neighborhood for a week do you suggest that they do something like they form NOSTA HOAs

370
00:29:43,061 --> 00:29:45,801
and set guidelines of what's allowed in their neighborhood?

371
00:29:46,081 --> 00:29:51,641
Or how do you think they create a peace of mind for themselves?

372
00:29:52,581 --> 00:30:08,161
Well and this is the direction that Nostra heading in man is that I think every website will be a Nostra client If you going to participate in Noster you going to stop going to websites You just going to go to this one niche client after another to get to filter the information on Noster the way you want to see

373
00:30:08,161 --> 00:30:14,301
it. And so for that week, everyone can go to the no Maxi Madness client or whatever. Someone can

374
00:30:14,301 --> 00:30:22,061
spin that up and just filter all that shit out. Everyone can go on these relay browsing clients

375
00:30:22,061 --> 00:30:27,841
and everyone can choose to go on a relay where no one's posting the Maxi Madness notes or whatever, right?

376
00:30:27,921 --> 00:30:32,921
So there is definitely ways to – you can't hide from it on Twitter, right?

377
00:30:33,381 --> 00:30:34,681
I mean, it's impossible.

378
00:30:34,681 --> 00:30:41,401
But on Noster, there's these little nooks and crannies everyone can shelter in place for if they choose to.

379
00:30:42,561 --> 00:30:47,241
So, like, they switch over to Domus for the week or something like that.

380
00:30:47,401 --> 00:30:50,121
They're not an amethyst or primal.

381
00:30:50,121 --> 00:30:56,961
yeah i mean especially like i think that other people found that frustrating too

382
00:30:56,961 --> 00:31:03,281
was that so this uh the nip that allowed for the zap votes was not in the vast majority of the

383
00:31:03,281 --> 00:31:08,961
clients and so um people were seeing it and then maybe they decided that they wanted to participate

384
00:31:08,961 --> 00:31:13,281
but then they couldn't and so that made it even more frustrating right now i got your you're

385
00:31:13,281 --> 00:31:19,401
twisting my arm to go get amethyst or primal um and i have to use a client that i don't like

386
00:31:19,401 --> 00:31:24,721
in order to finally break down and submit, is that my vote, right?

387
00:31:26,021 --> 00:31:31,061
So do you think that some people believe there's a conspiracy

388
00:31:31,061 --> 00:31:34,281
that Primal got involved with Maxi Madness

389
00:31:34,281 --> 00:31:36,361
because they just wanted the marketing,

390
00:31:36,481 --> 00:31:38,461
they wanted people to download and use Primal.

391
00:31:38,581 --> 00:31:40,461
Do you think there's some evidence for that?

392
00:31:42,221 --> 00:31:43,741
I mean, why not?

393
00:31:43,941 --> 00:31:46,921
Yeah, if I was Primal, I would definitely do that.

394
00:31:47,921 --> 00:31:48,721
There's a lot.

395
00:31:48,721 --> 00:31:54,461
happy right it's like paul keating is hot and he's walking around half naked all the time in

396
00:31:54,461 --> 00:32:01,281
costa rica and there's videos of him but apparently that only gets you so far like keep only only so

397
00:32:01,281 --> 00:32:06,121
many people are using primal and want to live free based on thinking that paul keating is hot

398
00:32:06,121 --> 00:32:12,841
they needed something fresher something more controversial more dynamic and they leaned into

399
00:32:12,841 --> 00:32:17,041
the max they even changed their logo for maxi madness they made it blue just like the maxi

400
00:32:17,041 --> 00:32:21,281
Madness branding, which I thought was interesting as well.

401
00:32:22,661 --> 00:32:25,381
They should have turned the Primal logo.

402
00:32:25,541 --> 00:32:27,241
They should have made it like a little basketball too,

403
00:32:27,901 --> 00:32:30,121
instead of like a little Firefox ripoff.

404
00:32:32,161 --> 00:32:36,201
Well, I think didn't, so all this lined up with Primal

405
00:32:36,201 --> 00:32:38,861
introducing the new Spark-based wallet, right?

406
00:32:38,941 --> 00:32:40,361
The no KYC wallet and all that.

407
00:32:41,001 --> 00:32:43,861
And I think so many people got into Maxi Madness

408
00:32:43,861 --> 00:32:46,361
and started to use the wallet and turn it over

409
00:32:46,361 --> 00:32:49,081
that it actually overloaded their infrastructure.

410
00:32:49,861 --> 00:32:52,061
However they had it set up, right, they had to fix that shit.

411
00:32:52,621 --> 00:32:55,321
And so, yeah, it turned out that Primal made a good choice

412
00:32:55,321 --> 00:32:58,461
in implementing the SNP just for Maxi Madness.

413
00:32:58,741 --> 00:33:00,361
I don't know if they did it just for Maxi Madness.

414
00:33:00,501 --> 00:33:04,461
I don't really, but the fact that they did it on time was very poignant.

415
00:33:04,621 --> 00:33:08,041
And, you know, they got a lot more people participating in NOSTER because of it,

416
00:33:08,081 --> 00:33:09,541
and that's a good thing in my mind.

417
00:33:09,541 --> 00:33:19,241
so hell yeah one of the conspiracy theories that i've been hearing periodically is there there are

418
00:33:19,241 --> 00:33:25,501
a lot of individuals that said that noster was a social attack on the bitcoin ecosystem taking

419
00:33:25,501 --> 00:33:31,521
people away from bitcoin twitter like uh you know aaron redwing the the runner-up in the the twitter

420
00:33:31,521 --> 00:33:39,941
one she was very she turned her nose up to nostor a couple times uh what what are your thoughts on

421
00:33:39,941 --> 00:33:46,681
that theory is would you consider nostor a social attack on the you know the pleb slot bitcoin

422
00:33:46,681 --> 00:33:52,921
twitter industrial complex or um is it something else well it certainly is it is an attack on the

423
00:33:52,921 --> 00:33:59,581
pleb slot man because the the algo there's no feeding the algo right now on nostor and so yeah

424
00:33:59,581 --> 00:34:06,641
you have an option to go it's a i have this this saying it's a diy or gfy like do it yourself or go

425
00:34:06,641 --> 00:34:13,001
fuck yourself right and so um on nostril you can do that you can you can build your own experience

426
00:34:13,001 --> 00:34:18,601
and if you don't like it it's totally your responsibility to fix that right and uh on

427
00:34:18,601 --> 00:34:24,281
twitter you're kind of stuck with whatever the hell is going on over there and so yeah it is it's

428
00:34:24,281 --> 00:34:29,561
it's an attack in a sense that like dude we over here on nostril we just do whatever we want like

429
00:34:29,561 --> 00:34:35,221
we do our own thing. On Twitter, you're subjugated to whatever Twitter wants. They can shadow ban you.

430
00:34:35,321 --> 00:34:40,281
You have to bend over and do whatever you need to do to get your exposure, get your, what do they

431
00:34:40,281 --> 00:34:45,801
call it, impressions or some shit. On Noster, you just build your social capital and participate.

432
00:34:46,341 --> 00:34:53,901
And the more you do that, the better it becomes for you. What about people who they love to monitor

433
00:34:53,901 --> 00:34:58,641
the situation? It's very hard to monitor the situation on Noster. Like, I don't know if Noster

434
00:34:58,641 --> 00:35:00,721
realizes we've invaded, that we've attacked

435
00:35:00,721 --> 00:35:02,761
Iran yet, like they're still

436
00:35:02,761 --> 00:35:04,721
kind of waiting on some of that, the

437
00:35:04,721 --> 00:35:06,361
news cycle to make it

438
00:35:06,361 --> 00:35:08,801
over there. Is it, is

439
00:35:08,801 --> 00:35:10,901
there an opportunity or is there

440
00:35:10,901 --> 00:35:12,621
a solution

441
00:35:12,621 --> 00:35:14,621
for people who like to monitor a situation

442
00:35:14,621 --> 00:35:16,761
if they were to go only on

443
00:35:16,761 --> 00:35:17,281
to Noster?

444
00:35:18,721 --> 00:35:20,561
Would, would they be able to do that?

445
00:35:22,121 --> 00:35:22,841
Well, so

446
00:35:22,841 --> 00:35:24,241
I think Noster is for

447
00:35:24,241 --> 00:35:26,841
participants, not for observers, right?

448
00:35:26,841 --> 00:35:31,301
If you want to just consume, once again, this comes back into the permaculture principle of non-extraction, right?

449
00:35:31,521 --> 00:35:38,621
If you just want to extract information from a platform and for only your benefit, then Twitter is the place for you.

450
00:35:38,721 --> 00:35:44,301
But if you try and do that on Noster, there's some work that you have to do in order to get what you want out of it.

451
00:35:44,941 --> 00:35:47,381
And so you have to actually participate.

452
00:35:48,421 --> 00:35:50,701
Extraction doesn't work on Noster, right?

453
00:35:51,281 --> 00:35:54,421
You have to actually be part of the community.

454
00:35:54,421 --> 00:35:59,001
and so that's what I think about it.

455
00:36:00,341 --> 00:36:02,361
You're a meetup organizer.

456
00:36:02,581 --> 00:36:04,201
You're a prolific meetup organizer.

457
00:36:04,441 --> 00:36:08,341
You're very active on the ground

458
00:36:08,341 --> 00:36:10,741
in the heartland of America.

459
00:36:12,961 --> 00:36:15,601
You know, the sentiment online is very bearish.

460
00:36:15,721 --> 00:36:18,141
What do you see the sentiment on the ground

461
00:36:18,141 --> 00:36:19,481
looking like at the moment

462
00:36:19,481 --> 00:36:20,821
as you're interacting with people

463
00:36:20,821 --> 00:36:22,461
that are interacting with Bitcoin?

464
00:36:24,421 --> 00:36:31,741
It's, well, I don't know if this correlates with this podcast that I recently just started called Local Bitcoiners.

465
00:36:32,501 --> 00:36:35,481
It's a podcast about Bitcoin meetups, right?

466
00:36:35,521 --> 00:36:39,821
We just interview and talk to Bitcoin meetup organizers, talk about meetups, talk about the power of meetups.

467
00:36:40,601 --> 00:36:48,741
And so this kind of lined up us starting this podcast, Reid and I, my co-host Reid, with this bear market.

468
00:36:48,741 --> 00:36:59,501
But ever since that podcast has been going on, maybe it's because I'm so involved in this region, the Chicagoland, Great Lakes, Michiana, Michigan region, right?

469
00:36:59,721 --> 00:37:04,381
But a lot of people are listening to the podcast and there's a huge buzz going on right now.

470
00:37:04,441 --> 00:37:05,321
The meetups are good.

471
00:37:05,721 --> 00:37:10,501
People are showing up with items to participate in the circular economy.

472
00:37:10,501 --> 00:37:15,581
in Chicago. They just launched, and this also coincided with the beginning of this podcast,

473
00:37:16,101 --> 00:37:21,861
was the Chicago Bitcoin Collective, which is a dedicated Bitcoin space, fork and coin restaurant.

474
00:37:22,261 --> 00:37:24,881
They're going to be doing bit devs there. They're going to be doing meetups there. They're going to

475
00:37:24,881 --> 00:37:31,381
be doing all this stuff. There's a huge buzz going on around that. And so it's very much the

476
00:37:31,381 --> 00:37:35,361
bear market is for building vibes, right? Everyone's just coming out of the woodwork

477
00:37:35,361 --> 00:37:37,381
and really participating right now.

478
00:37:37,441 --> 00:37:40,261
And the meetups have gotten really good recently.

479
00:37:40,461 --> 00:37:41,381
Yeah, they're great.

480
00:37:43,981 --> 00:37:46,041
Why do you think there's such a difference

481
00:37:46,041 --> 00:37:48,421
between the sentiment online

482
00:37:48,421 --> 00:37:50,761
and the sentiment that you're seeing in meetups?

483
00:37:51,461 --> 00:37:52,361
Where's the disconnect?

484
00:37:53,641 --> 00:37:55,981
I think that, so there are some people

485
00:37:55,981 --> 00:37:56,841
that come to the meetups

486
00:37:56,841 --> 00:37:58,501
and they want to talk about number go up, right?

487
00:37:59,421 --> 00:38:03,021
And they're very concerned about the quantum FUD,

488
00:38:03,021 --> 00:38:16,341
Not because of the reality of the quantum FUD, right, that it could actually be dangerous for people losing their, getting their Bitcoin sniped away from them from some weird quantum computer somewhere, but more about how the idea of this affects the price.

489
00:38:16,841 --> 00:38:24,141
And when you're participating in Bitcoin and you're earning Bitcoin, you're spending Bitcoin, the price doesn't really matter, right?

490
00:38:24,141 --> 00:38:32,261
You get Bitcoin in, Bitcoin goes out, the price might fluctuate a few percent in that exchange, but the price isn't the important thing.

491
00:38:32,261 --> 00:38:41,581
It's the freedom and it's the culture and the community and the ability to build resilience and build sovereignty to operate in a thermodynamically sound lifestyle.

492
00:38:42,281 --> 00:38:49,181
Right. And so that's where the meetups, the people like that are going to the meetups, the people who want to live sovereign.

493
00:38:49,321 --> 00:38:52,001
They want to operate with good thermodynamics.

494
00:38:52,001 --> 00:39:02,121
You know, if you're just looking on Twitter, you know, you're basically just looking for the next reason for the price to go up or down and make your decisions on that.

495
00:39:02,261 --> 00:39:05,461
that's my opinion. I don't really know, but you know, that's what I think.

496
00:39:07,961 --> 00:39:14,361
It's an interesting perspective. I mean, uh, yeah, I don't know. It's, I, I've been wondering

497
00:39:14,361 --> 00:39:22,861
this for a while and, uh, you know, I, I talked to Avi Burra pretty frequently and he says, um,

498
00:39:25,521 --> 00:39:31,321
he said Noster's even had kind of a bear market, which I, I would have figured Noster would be

499
00:39:31,321 --> 00:39:38,641
more of a reflection of you know what's actually happening on the ground but maybe not so

500
00:39:38,641 --> 00:39:46,441
well so these are all just i mean we we talk about the bitcoin as a tool noster as a tool

501
00:39:46,441 --> 00:39:51,861
um but you know when it comes to the the actual meetups and you get together

502
00:39:51,861 --> 00:39:58,601
in person you know these people they're part of your life um it's not a tool anymore man it's a

503
00:39:58,642 --> 00:40:05,322
community asset. And so this is the big difference is like when you actually take things into the

504
00:40:05,322 --> 00:40:12,622
meat space in reality, there's a whole different set of incentives and a dynamic that goes on.

505
00:40:13,622 --> 00:40:20,802
And I think it does reveal the truth, right? That, okay, price is down. Nobody's really

506
00:40:20,802 --> 00:40:28,542
chit-chatting, gossiping about this or that on these socials. But the group chats, still good.

507
00:40:28,642 --> 00:40:44,402
Right. And the meetups are still good. And that's where the signal is, you know. Podcasts too, right? That's, has there been a bear market in podcasting? Hell no, dude. There's a new fucking podcast spinning up every day about Bitcoin.

508
00:40:44,402 --> 00:40:52,662
So you've got to look at the real sovereign shit, like podcasting, uncensorable way to promote and propagate cultural capital.

509
00:40:53,122 --> 00:40:57,562
Bitcoin meetups, real sovereign way, unstoppable way to promote and propagate cultural capital.

510
00:40:58,522 --> 00:41:08,242
Nostra to a degree is unstoppable, but it's just, it's more nebulous than these true relationships that you have.

511
00:41:08,242 --> 00:41:16,862
i wonder one of the things that i've been thinking about is crashing out we've talked

512
00:41:16,862 --> 00:41:25,082
about it a little bit but there's really very few ways to prove that you're not crashing out

513
00:41:25,082 --> 00:41:30,902
if everybody else is saying you're crashing out if people were if there was like a crash out

514
00:41:30,902 --> 00:41:36,022
civil attack right and all and all your followers everybody whether it's on nost or on x and they

515
00:41:36,022 --> 00:41:43,082
said rev huddle is crashing out right now and you're like i'm not crashing out i'm totally normal

516
00:41:43,082 --> 00:41:46,922
like mike brock is going through this right everybody's calling if you don't know who mike

517
00:41:46,922 --> 00:41:52,202
brock is he's on that tray he was a former executive at block under jack dorsey and now

518
00:41:52,202 --> 00:41:59,742
he is um he's an essayist everybody's accusing him of crashing out and he had to start a podcast

519
00:41:59,742 --> 00:42:07,402
to prove that he wasn't crashing out are there any other methods are there any other ways you

520
00:42:07,402 --> 00:42:12,402
can prove that you're not crashing out if everybody says you're crashing out other than

521
00:42:12,402 --> 00:42:17,442
start a podcast is there like a certain amount of social capital that you can have where people are

522
00:42:17,442 --> 00:42:22,562
like well he's got too much social capital to be crashing out he's just esoteric or something like

523
00:42:22,562 --> 00:42:32,342
that uh or eccentric um is it is it just you have to start a podcast i well yeah to to crash out is

524
00:42:32,342 --> 00:42:39,542
not uh it's not up to you right it your actions reveal if you're crashing out or not and you could

525
00:42:39,542 --> 00:42:48,262
be uh in denial about it um i i actually had a i crashed out dude uh about a year ago um and i was

526
00:42:48,262 --> 00:42:53,702
super hard, just like, fuck, I can't stand that everyone's talking about doing shit. No one's

527
00:42:53,702 --> 00:42:59,682
actually doing shit. It's so hard. This was when the meetups did go. So Paper Bitcoin Summer

528
00:42:59,682 --> 00:43:03,782
destroyed the meetups, basically. Everyone was talking about instead of price talk,

529
00:43:04,442 --> 00:43:11,702
it's okay to talk about micro strategy and all this shit. And people just stopped coming. The

530
00:43:11,702 --> 00:43:18,042
vibe just got killed by that. And I couldn't stand it. And I crashed out about it. And it got

531
00:43:18,042 --> 00:43:22,442
so bad that the Mestradel had like an intervention with me where they got on a call and they like

532
00:43:22,442 --> 00:43:27,962
talked me off the ledge, you know. And so, you know, at the time I didn't feel like I was crashing

533
00:43:27,962 --> 00:43:33,642
out. I was in denial about it, but I, there was no way for me to prove that to them that I was,

534
00:43:33,762 --> 00:43:40,442
it was a real serious, you know, it wasn't a crash out. And so, yeah, your, your crash out is,

535
00:43:41,062 --> 00:43:45,722
it's not up to you. It's a, it's up to how the, the people that you're talking to perceive your

536
00:43:45,722 --> 00:43:52,182
actions. So there's no, there's no like sovereign crash outs at this point. Like a crash out is

537
00:43:52,182 --> 00:44:02,662
like a network effect phenomenon. I'd say so. Yeah. So from your experience of having a crash out,

538
00:44:02,782 --> 00:44:08,802
it sounds like you, you had people around you that helped you pull out of it. You know,

539
00:44:08,802 --> 00:44:12,442
there's a lot of people on the verge of crashing out. There's a lot of people that are crashing

540
00:44:12,442 --> 00:44:17,302
out right now. What words of advice do you have for those crashing out?

541
00:44:19,002 --> 00:44:23,382
You got to go to the to the group chats. You got to go to the meetup. You got to talk to the people

542
00:44:23,382 --> 00:44:32,602
you know. And you got to you got to just basically confirm that it's going to be all right. You know

543
00:44:32,602 --> 00:44:38,282
that this is just a moment in time that the volatility is everywhere. There's volatility in

544
00:44:38,282 --> 00:44:44,042
Bitcoin. There's volatility in nature. And sometimes the volatility does not swing in your

545
00:44:44,042 --> 00:44:50,662
direction. And don't worry, zoom out, right? Over enough, long enough time horizon, if you lower

546
00:44:50,662 --> 00:44:59,202
your time preference, things will hit, will swing your way again. As a, you know, experienced meetup

547
00:44:59,202 --> 00:45:05,982
organizer, you kind of talked about the disruption of the paper Bitcoiners showing up and wanting to

548
00:45:05,982 --> 00:45:12,902
talk about their, you know, paper bitcoins being problematic to the meetup structure and

549
00:45:12,902 --> 00:45:20,782
an organization, uh, you know, impacting members from, from coming people, you know, not being

550
00:45:20,782 --> 00:45:27,622
interested in participating anymore, you know, for individuals that are problematic, what are

551
00:45:27,622 --> 00:45:33,382
some strategies that you've learned at handling them? Do you like a torn feather them in the,

552
00:45:33,382 --> 00:45:39,022
in the town square for talking about paper-baked calling or, you know, what are like the strategies

553
00:45:39,022 --> 00:45:46,502
to prevent disruptive, unhelpful behavior in the meetup? Well, this is, you can take permaculture

554
00:45:46,502 --> 00:45:52,102
once again and apply this to that kind of behavior. And so first you start off by observing and

555
00:45:52,102 --> 00:45:59,342
interacting with the person, right? The next step is to accept, self-regulate, accept and apply the

556
00:45:59,342 --> 00:46:03,802
feedback that that person is giving to you. And then from there, you're able to take a small and

557
00:46:03,802 --> 00:46:09,002
slow solution in order to turn this into, in permaculture, we have a saying that's called

558
00:46:09,002 --> 00:46:15,882
the problem is the solution, right? So how do you take this person that's kind of disrupting the

559
00:46:15,882 --> 00:46:21,082
vibe of the meetup and running away with the meetup with this price talk and this paper Bitcoin

560
00:46:21,082 --> 00:46:42,281
bullshit and turn it into an educational experience for everybody else to and you have to do it gracefully right Because the reason why people come to the meetups is to learn and to participate If you at the meetup you trying to participate There no reason to just poo someone and push them out and exclude them The purity test

561
00:46:42,281 --> 00:46:48,101
thing is definitely not valuable in meetup culture, right? You don't need to pass all the purity

562
00:46:48,101 --> 00:46:55,301
tests so you just have to find a way to make the problem a solution and and turn it into uh

563
00:46:55,301 --> 00:47:06,341
a talk about privacy or a talk about um self uh uh holding your coins like uh cold storage right

564
00:47:06,341 --> 00:47:14,861
these kinds of things so like if they're talking about paper bitcoin ngu you you try to change the

565
00:47:14,861 --> 00:47:20,341
subject into paper bitcoin privacy strategies or what do you what do you mean yeah like how how are

566
00:47:20,341 --> 00:47:23,701
you gonna you question you ask them questions right like how are you how are you maintaining

567
00:47:23,701 --> 00:47:29,061
your privacy with your paper bitcoin right like how are you how are you uh self self-custodying

568
00:47:29,061 --> 00:47:35,761
your paper bitcoin and um that leads to a lot of people that are doing that to think a little bit

569
00:47:35,761 --> 00:47:43,821
deeper about how their strategies are to improve that makes sense interesting uh shifting the

570
00:47:43,821 --> 00:47:53,461
conversation to a new topic here kind of off off kilter the united states just launched a manned

571
00:47:53,461 --> 00:48:00,081
crew into outer space like a half hour ago and it's going to be the first uh the first crew to

572
00:48:00,081 --> 00:48:08,021
fly around the moon in decades question for you do you believe this is real i mean a they did it

573
00:48:08,021 --> 00:48:15,601
on april fool's day which could be a coincidence it could be part of the clues that they leave to

574
00:48:15,601 --> 00:48:24,081
let us know that it's not real and be any video that they quote unquote like you know broadcast

575
00:48:24,081 --> 00:48:29,481
back to the united states for us to watch on our screens could be ai slop there's no way for us to

576
00:48:29,481 --> 00:48:32,681
know that the pictures and the video that they're going to be sending from their flight around the

577
00:48:32,681 --> 00:48:39,121
moon in the next few days is real or AI slop. But I'm just curious, what is your reaction to

578
00:48:39,121 --> 00:48:44,201
that we're going around the moon again? And it's going to be the first woman to fly around the moon.

579
00:48:44,321 --> 00:48:50,401
She's on board. Dr. Richard Harambe just tweeted that there's a Canadian astronaut on board, a man,

580
00:48:50,561 --> 00:48:55,161
which means it's basically two women. So there's basically two women flying around the moon for

581
00:48:55,161 --> 00:49:01,621
the first time. Is this real or fake? Well, I hope it's real because I want to see the pictures of

582
00:49:01,621 --> 00:49:06,681
the other side of the moon, the dark side of the moon, the side of the moon that's so I don't know

583
00:49:06,681 --> 00:49:09,861
if you guys know this, but on the on the dark side of the moon, there's a whole civilization

584
00:49:09,861 --> 00:49:16,441
of people that are like 40 feet tall, and they're all hot. And like, dude, I want to see I don't

585
00:49:16,441 --> 00:49:20,201
think why would you need clothes on the moon? So like, I want to see the pictures of these,

586
00:49:20,201 --> 00:49:25,621
these 40 foot tall women, and their tits out, right? Like, that would be fucking amazing. And

587
00:49:25,621 --> 00:49:29,341
so as soon as those pictures come out, I'll know it's real. Until then, I think that it's probably

588
00:49:29,341 --> 00:49:36,821
bullshit should we have a maxi madness tournament for the hot naked aliens on the moon they're not

589
00:49:36,821 --> 00:49:41,521
aliens they're just people they're just people like us that are just 40 feet tall they're not

590
00:49:41,521 --> 00:49:47,661
even aliens they're just okay that's it i'm glad you brought that up because of this sort of off

591
00:49:47,661 --> 00:49:54,101
topic again here but similar when they talk about aliens being real and there being alien technology

592
00:49:54,101 --> 00:50:03,981
yada yada what does that mean because it kind of depends on your definition of alien so how

593
00:50:03,981 --> 00:50:11,701
if somebody were to say to you rev huddle come come out from picking your your your deuce berries

594
00:50:11,701 --> 00:50:19,081
on your homestead and come look at the tv right now because aliens are are being introduced by

595
00:50:19,081 --> 00:50:26,161
the president what does it what does that mean are aliens from a different planet are they a

596
00:50:26,161 --> 00:50:32,081
different life form instead of this carbon-based life form like us are they is it is it something

597
00:50:32,081 --> 00:50:38,721
mental or spiritual that makes an alien what is if aliens exist let's just say the aliens exist

598
00:50:38,721 --> 00:50:44,981
what does that mean what is an alien versus a human well there's a whole lot of different kinds

599
00:50:44,981 --> 00:50:50,261
of aliens, in my opinion. And this comes down to like the way I think that the universe works.

600
00:50:51,341 --> 00:50:56,641
It's all vibration, right? Everything is connected. And there's there is a vibrational force

601
00:50:56,641 --> 00:51:03,341
creating volatility, creating entropy throughout the universe. And so I'm sure you guys have seen

602
00:51:03,341 --> 00:51:08,781
these these videos of, you know, you put a plate on top of a speaker and you sprinkle some sand on

603
00:51:08,781 --> 00:51:13,941
it and you play the different tones and the sand takes up all these different shapes. And so the

604
00:51:13,941 --> 00:51:20,941
vibration of the universe forces form. And so the human form is dictated by the vibrations of the

605
00:51:20,941 --> 00:51:25,621
universe. And so that means that there are aliens out there that are from outside the earth that

606
00:51:25,621 --> 00:51:31,241
are people just like us, because that's the only way that the vibration of the universe can only

607
00:51:31,241 --> 00:51:39,721
create human, right? And so then there's also the etheric form of alien, right? Where these

608
00:51:39,721 --> 00:51:45,621
these trans-dimensional people or beings or entities, you could say, manifest.

609
00:51:46,321 --> 00:51:50,261
And so that's kind of like the glitch in the matrix type of experience.

610
00:51:51,621 --> 00:51:53,781
So there can be many different kinds of aliens,

611
00:51:54,121 --> 00:51:58,001
but I think the aliens that people talk about the most are just people from somewhere else.

612
00:51:58,321 --> 00:51:59,921
And I think they exist, personally.

613
00:52:01,421 --> 00:52:03,261
Do you think any of them are on Noster?

614
00:52:05,721 --> 00:52:06,601
Well, they should be.

615
00:52:06,601 --> 00:52:07,301
And that's what I'm saying.

616
00:52:08,221 --> 00:52:09,141
That's what I think.

617
00:52:09,141 --> 00:52:20,281
Like, you know, if the aliens come, I want to have enough social capital and enough proof with my signatures, right, of these notes that I've signed and these Bitcoin transactions that I made, right?

618
00:52:20,301 --> 00:52:21,041
It's a public ledger.

619
00:52:21,341 --> 00:52:28,321
This is actually beneficial to us because when the aliens show up, they can see who the fuck's been participating in Bitcoin and Noster and who's not.

620
00:52:28,521 --> 00:52:32,221
And they're going to want to come talk to me because I'm on the frontier here as a pioneer.

621
00:52:32,541 --> 00:52:35,541
I'm trying to push the world forward into a positive place.

622
00:52:35,541 --> 00:52:45,241
The aliens will know this and they'll the new politicians, right, are going to be the people not talking with aliens because of the reptilian bullshit fucking center of the earth stuff.

623
00:52:45,401 --> 00:52:53,501
I'm going to be working with the the Palladians, right, who are coming with their beautiful blonde hair and their their voluptuous forms.

624
00:52:54,281 --> 00:53:05,880
And they going to want to talk to me and not the people who are basically fiat Right Just the fiat system shit is over right Pleiadians are pretty hot

625
00:53:08,780 --> 00:53:10,300
Did aliens crash out?

626
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:12,880
Of course.

627
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:14,900
Of course.

628
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:15,380
You said that.

629
00:53:15,380 --> 00:53:20,840
We're all subject to the same vibrations of the universe, right?

630
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:39,800
So you think that crash outs are a vibrational phenomenon and maxi madness was a vibration shift on the protocol that people were not prepared to handle.

631
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,800
The vibes freaked them out.

632
00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:49,940
Well, so, all right, you can think about it like this, right?

633
00:53:49,940 --> 00:53:56,360
When you drop a stone into a still pool, the ripples go out.

634
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,300
But when the ripples reach the end of the pool, they reflect back.

635
00:54:02,380 --> 00:54:07,840
And so this creates, when the ripples start to intersect, now this creates distortion and feedback.

636
00:54:08,900 --> 00:54:18,040
And so in the sense of maxi madness, right, that was the stone being dropped into the pool of Noster, which created ripples.

637
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:22,340
And as soon as the ripples bounced to the edge of the pool and started coming back, now the distortion comes.

638
00:54:22,780 --> 00:54:24,160
And that feels uncomfortable, right?

639
00:54:24,220 --> 00:54:32,100
You went from looking at a very pleasing waveform into something that turned into chaotic noise, right?

640
00:54:32,460 --> 00:54:39,020
And that, if you want to pull the signal out of the noise, now you've got to put in some proof of work to determine what to do here.

641
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:40,560
That's uncomfortable.

642
00:54:42,300 --> 00:54:44,940
What do you think the odds that Noah Groom is a Palladian is?

643
00:54:44,940 --> 00:54:54,140
well i believe in this idea of uh soul groups and and that there are soul groups that uh have ties

644
00:54:54,140 --> 00:55:01,800
to other extraterrestrial communities and so i mean judging by the way she looks man she could

645
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:08,660
definitely be a part of that palladian soul group and be here for a purpose you know uh her her soul

646
00:55:08,660 --> 00:55:10,600
may have manifested on Earth

647
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:11,700
at the time that she did

648
00:55:11,700 --> 00:55:15,560
to push Bitcoin forward.

649
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,180
Because I think there needs to be more music.

650
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,460
This DMU, the decentralized music culture,

651
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:24,620
is really growing on Noster.

652
00:55:25,060 --> 00:55:26,080
And I think it's really important.

653
00:55:26,700 --> 00:55:28,960
And the fact that she's putting so much work in,

654
00:55:29,020 --> 00:55:30,060
participating in that,

655
00:55:30,860 --> 00:55:32,640
doing the Zap streams and all the stuff,

656
00:55:33,220 --> 00:55:35,680
suggests to me that, yeah,

657
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,060
it's very likely that she is from this

658
00:55:38,060 --> 00:55:39,880
more benevolent

659
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,620
soul group outside

660
00:55:42,620 --> 00:55:43,020
the earth.

661
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,660
I kind of agree. Yeah. I think there's a good

662
00:55:46,660 --> 00:55:48,160
chance he's a play in for sure.

663
00:55:50,940 --> 00:55:51,660
Well, yeah.

664
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:54,720
Looking at wrapping

665
00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:56,640
this up, I mean, what do you see

666
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:58,660
for the rest of 2026?

667
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:00,180
What's got you excited?

668
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:02,860
Are you

669
00:56:02,860 --> 00:56:04,640
thinking about your strategy next year

670
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:05,760
in Maxi Madness?

671
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,480
are you thinking that far ahead?

672
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:10,760
I mean, what's real important to you right now?

673
00:56:10,860 --> 00:56:13,220
What's really important on your horizon ahead?

674
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:15,740
What are you excited about?

675
00:56:17,540 --> 00:56:20,300
Well, I think that the most important thing for me

676
00:56:20,300 --> 00:56:21,960
is just going to be continuing to,

677
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:25,180
winning the Maxi Madness was a signal to me

678
00:56:25,180 --> 00:56:30,180
that I'm representing what Nostra culture appreciates,

679
00:56:31,140 --> 00:56:33,220
what local Bitcoin culture appreciates,

680
00:56:33,220 --> 00:56:36,260
and that people need to,

681
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:38,540
if the number's not going to go up, right,

682
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:39,360
if we're in a bear market,

683
00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:41,840
you have to hyper-Bitcoinize your own life.

684
00:56:41,940 --> 00:56:44,680
You have to figure out ways to interact

685
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:46,420
with your local Bitcoin community

686
00:56:46,420 --> 00:56:50,880
and lean into that and get the freedom go up, right?

687
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,340
Increase the utility that the Bitcoin affords you

688
00:56:54,340 --> 00:56:57,540
to build shit and access freedom.

689
00:56:58,220 --> 00:57:00,240
And when we do that,

690
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:02,280
then when the price starts to go up,

691
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:06,960
we're that much more powerful where that's much more connected and we're that much more ready for

692
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:13,000
when the aliens show up for them to come talk to us instead of the the reptilian uh politicians right

693
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:22,700
absolutely well carl i gotta say you you are a true first turning uh pioneer one of the few out

694
00:57:22,700 --> 00:57:28,900
there majority of people out there they're still living in the fourth turning crashing out you got

695
00:57:28,900 --> 00:57:29,960
a very different perspective.

696
00:57:33,180 --> 00:57:34,620
We'll have to do this again sometime.

697
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:38,000
Yeah, I'd be happy to.

698
00:57:38,300 --> 00:57:40,200
You know, there's a lot going on

699
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:43,180
in the meetup culture here locally.

700
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:44,300
We got a lot of pioneers.

701
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:47,200
Otis Bitmeyer roasting his coffee.

702
00:57:48,300 --> 00:57:50,180
The people in the Mestredel, man,

703
00:57:50,260 --> 00:57:51,180
like you mentioned, Avi,

704
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:54,520
he's got how many different podcasts

705
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:55,600
going on, Fundamentals,

706
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:56,780
how many different podcasts

707
00:57:56,780 --> 00:57:57,680
does he have going on?

708
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:06,180
And there are, we are a group of people who are recognizing that the frontier is, we're on the frontier.

709
00:58:06,660 --> 00:58:11,020
And it's up to us to decide now that we're going to make the first turning happen.

710
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:12,720
We're doing it.

711
00:58:13,940 --> 00:58:19,860
We're building our way into the, you know, strong men make good times.

712
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:22,400
Absolutely.

713
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:28,220
Absolutely. Well, go through, plug all the meetups that you're part of and the events that you're going to be part of.

714
00:58:28,420 --> 00:58:31,660
You know, Lake Satoshi is coming up in Michigan.

715
00:58:34,300 --> 00:58:39,280
Yeah, you can't miss Lake Satoshi. That's the first weekend in August, I believe.

716
00:58:40,660 --> 00:58:45,640
I'm not sure about this, but I think it's Saturday, August 2nd is like the main day.

717
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,380
I could be wrong, but first weekend in August.

718
00:58:48,380 --> 00:58:53,820
but you know in Michigan there's the Southwest Michigan meetup that's where you'll see all of

719
00:58:53,820 --> 00:59:00,400
this homesteader really good circular economy around food then there's the Grand Rapids meetup

720
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:07,000
which has two meetups right there's the the educational meetup at the factory and then

721
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:13,080
there's the social meetup which is at two guys brewing and beyond that I run the South Bend

722
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:19,080
Indiana meetup. I go to the Chicago BitDevs meetup. There's a meetup in Elmhurst, Illinois

723
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:26,040
that I go to as well, the western suburbs of Chicago. I go to the Mid-Michigan meetup in

724
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:38,259
Lansing There a lot of I have to say that the Indianapolis meetup is really good The Cleveland meetup is really good Those are a little outside my range I might I only been to the Indianapolis meetup once

725
00:59:38,459 --> 00:59:39,739
but you get the idea.

726
00:59:39,859 --> 00:59:43,359
There's a meetup for you out there, right?

727
00:59:43,519 --> 00:59:46,019
And if you don't have a meetup near you,

728
00:59:46,159 --> 00:59:47,819
if you can't find one, you should start one.

729
00:59:48,999 --> 00:59:49,739
Well said.

730
00:59:49,739 --> 00:59:57,439
I've been seeing some chatter in the Messerdale chat.

731
00:59:57,659 --> 01:00:03,599
It sounds like Jackie's going to bring some orange paint to Lake Satoshi this year to paint the lawn orange.

732
01:00:05,179 --> 01:00:06,839
Will you be partaking in that?

733
01:00:07,659 --> 01:00:09,219
Do some rallying with Jackie?

734
01:00:10,159 --> 01:00:17,299
You know, if Jackie's on board and he's got the paint, you've got to build that social capital, man, and participate, right?

735
01:00:17,599 --> 01:00:18,439
So I'm in.

736
01:00:19,739 --> 01:00:23,479
Rod, are you in? Are you going to paint the lawn orange with us? I know I'm in.

737
01:00:24,839 --> 01:00:27,699
Paint the town orange. Paint all orange.

738
01:00:29,019 --> 01:00:33,219
Rod, you got any closing questions before we wrap this one up?

739
01:00:34,539 --> 01:00:36,839
You said you've been to the Cleveland Bitcoin meetup.

740
01:00:38,339 --> 01:00:43,279
I have not been to Cleveland, but I'm pretty close with the Cleveland organizers.

741
01:00:44,119 --> 01:00:47,499
And they bring a huge crew to Lake Satoshi every year.

742
01:00:47,499 --> 01:00:51,439
So I know the Cleveland group, I'm in their group chats and all that stuff.

743
01:00:51,659 --> 01:00:56,999
I'll have to see if they can bring Phillip of Macedonia to Lake Satoshi this year.

744
01:00:58,619 --> 01:01:00,239
We'll have to meet him in person.

745
01:01:01,059 --> 01:01:04,499
He could maybe do a performance, a rap performance.

746
01:01:05,439 --> 01:01:07,739
But he's a big listener to the podcast.

747
01:01:07,979 --> 01:01:09,679
He's not very happy with us right now.

748
01:01:10,159 --> 01:01:13,499
He's not happy with the bracket for Maxi Madness.

749
01:01:13,499 --> 01:01:15,419
but I think that

750
01:01:15,419 --> 01:01:18,179
it'd be great to hang out

751
01:01:18,179 --> 01:01:18,999
in the Lake Satoshi

752
01:01:18,999 --> 01:01:21,979
I bet you he would love painting the lawn red

753
01:01:21,979 --> 01:01:22,979
or the orange

754
01:01:22,979 --> 01:01:25,319
yeah Phil if you come to

755
01:01:25,319 --> 01:01:27,279
Lake Satoshi you're gonna have a good time

756
01:01:27,279 --> 01:01:29,479
you should do it

757
01:01:29,479 --> 01:01:31,479
wear all your medals

758
01:01:31,479 --> 01:01:33,099
wear all your medals from

759
01:01:33,099 --> 01:01:35,719
grade school those are fucking

760
01:01:35,719 --> 01:01:37,239
incredible swag

761
01:01:37,239 --> 01:01:40,179
yeah just shout out

762
01:01:40,179 --> 01:01:40,599
to Phillip

763
01:01:40,599 --> 01:01:43,399
shout out to Phillip indeed

764
01:01:43,499 --> 01:01:46,039
Rev Honnold, thank you for coming on.

765
01:01:46,319 --> 01:01:47,059
This has been a pleasure.

766
01:01:47,599 --> 01:01:48,359
I appreciate it.

767
01:01:49,039 --> 01:01:49,619
Hey, you know what?

768
01:01:49,639 --> 01:01:54,239
I'm really happy that you guys chose to get Maxi Madness over to Noster.

769
01:01:54,559 --> 01:01:56,919
I do think that it is important.

770
01:01:57,359 --> 01:01:58,079
This is important.

771
01:01:58,559 --> 01:02:03,879
As much as people like to think that this is all just fun and games,

772
01:02:04,179 --> 01:02:05,599
there's more to it than that.

773
01:02:06,139 --> 01:02:10,319
And the only way you know that is if you listen to 40 hours of Bitcoin podcast per week

774
01:02:10,319 --> 01:02:16,639
and that you listen to the Bugle and you understand the message that you guys are putting out.

775
01:02:17,799 --> 01:02:19,579
Well, thank you, Rev Hoddle.

776
01:02:20,639 --> 01:02:23,759
Folks, go give Rev Hoddle a follow on Noster.

777
01:02:23,899 --> 01:02:26,999
If you're not following him yet, I don't know what's wrong with you.

778
01:02:26,999 --> 01:02:29,319
You should reconsider your life decisions.

779
01:02:29,699 --> 01:02:34,719
But People's Champ, it's been a great rip.

780
01:02:35,879 --> 01:02:39,339
Folks, we'll see you on another episode of Intellectual Silk Road soon.

781
01:02:40,319 --> 01:02:47,659
Tryna stay calm but I can feel it

782
01:02:47,659 --> 01:02:54,439
Don't crash out, don't crash out That's what I keep telling myself now

783
01:02:54,439 --> 01:03:01,139
Whole world watching, zoomed in close One wrong post and it's over, I know

784
01:03:01,139 --> 01:03:08,059
Don't crash out, don't crash out But they love when you lose control now

785
01:03:08,059 --> 01:03:11,339
Everybody say stay chill out loud

786
01:03:11,339 --> 01:03:14,679
But they really wanna see you crash out

787
01:03:14,679 --> 01:03:17,299
Politics turn into comment fights

788
01:03:17,299 --> 01:03:18,999
Everyone swingin' for clips and likes

789
01:03:18,999 --> 01:03:20,819
Economics in a viral thread

790
01:03:20,819 --> 01:03:22,459
Expert take from a random head

791
01:03:22,459 --> 01:03:24,119
G.O. News with a countdown clock

792
01:03:24,119 --> 01:03:25,779
Every headline built to shock

793
01:03:25,779 --> 01:03:27,659
You say one thing, they twist it fast

794
01:03:27,659 --> 01:03:29,399
Now your name in a trending tag

795
01:03:29,399 --> 01:03:31,299
They poke, they prod, they wait, they watch

796
01:03:31,299 --> 01:03:32,979
They screenshot every little thought

797
01:03:32,979 --> 01:03:34,719
You try to breathe, you try to pause

798
01:03:34,719 --> 01:03:36,619
They spam, say more, they want it wrong

799
01:03:36,619 --> 01:03:43,879
Don't crash out, don't crash out That's what I keep telling myself now

800
01:03:43,879 --> 01:03:50,499
Whole world watching, zoomed in close One wrong post and it's over, I know

801
01:03:50,499 --> 01:03:57,319
Don't crash out, don't crash out But they love when you lose control now

802
01:03:57,319 --> 01:04:04,039
Everybody say stay chill out loud But they really wanna see you crash out

803
01:04:04,039 --> 01:04:07,899
Corporate voice in a PR tone Please stay calm, but they egg it on

804
01:04:07,899 --> 01:04:11,279
Faith debates in the common war Speak your truth and they ask for more

805
01:04:11,279 --> 01:04:14,699
AI clips got it looking real You don't even know how you feel

806
01:04:14,699 --> 01:04:17,879
Every take gotta escalate If it's not extreme, it don't penetrate

807
01:04:17,879 --> 01:04:24,879
They build you up just to tear you down Turn your spiral into a sound

808
01:04:24,879 --> 01:04:30,819
You try to log off, step away But the noise still echoes anyway

809
01:04:30,819 --> 01:04:34,759
Don't crash out, don't crash out

810
01:04:34,759 --> 01:04:38,099
That's what I keep telling myself now

811
01:04:38,099 --> 01:04:41,279
Whole world watching, zoomed in close

812
01:04:41,279 --> 01:04:44,759
One wrong post and it's over, I know

813
01:04:44,759 --> 01:04:48,199
Don't crash out, don't crash out

814
01:04:48,199 --> 01:04:51,559
But they love when you lose control now

815
01:04:51,559 --> 01:04:54,759
Everybody say stay, chill out loud

816
01:04:54,759 --> 01:04:58,359
But they really wanna see you crash out

817
01:04:58,359 --> 01:05:00,799
Maybe it's me, maybe it's us

818
01:05:00,799 --> 01:05:02,499
Maybe we all just feel too much

819
01:05:02,499 --> 01:05:04,179
Too many odds, too many takes

820
01:05:04,179 --> 01:05:06,799
Too many chances for one mistake

821
01:05:06,799 --> 01:05:10,159
To become, but the timeline shakes

822
01:05:10,159 --> 01:05:13,499
Every second's a higher stake

823
01:05:13,499 --> 01:05:19,819
Stay cool, stay cool, don't lose it

824
01:05:19,819 --> 01:05:23,119
Don't give them what they came for

825
01:05:23,119 --> 01:05:25,999
Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh

826
01:05:25,999 --> 01:05:28,579
Crash out, I might crash out

827
01:05:28,579 --> 01:05:31,899
Tryna stay level but it's hard now

828
01:05:31,899 --> 01:05:35,099
Everything built for the moment you break

829
01:05:35,099 --> 01:05:38,119
Every reaction they can replay

830
01:05:38,119 --> 01:05:41,959
Crash out, we all crash out

831
01:05:41,959 --> 01:05:45,219
That's just the rhythm we live in now

832
01:05:45,219 --> 01:05:48,559
If it's all pressure all the time

833
01:05:48,559 --> 01:05:53,039
Then losing is just part of the design, yeah

834
01:05:53,039 --> 01:05:56,919
Stay calm

835
01:05:56,919 --> 01:05:59,379
But don't