1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,140 true inflation is monetary expansion. 2 00:00:02,500 --> 00:00:03,520 And they don't want to tell you, 3 00:00:03,820 --> 00:00:05,180 hey, every nine to 10 years, 4 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:07,060 you're losing half your purchasing power 5 00:00:07,060 --> 00:00:09,520 at current M2 growth. 6 00:00:09,820 --> 00:00:10,780 Because if you said that, 7 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:11,920 there'd be riots in the streets. 8 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,860 And so they kind of have to pitch this idea 9 00:00:14,860 --> 00:00:17,720 that it's 2% inflation target, 10 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:19,000 things are stable. 11 00:00:19,460 --> 00:00:20,460 But yeah, in finance, 12 00:00:20,740 --> 00:00:22,420 they literally are assuming 13 00:00:22,420 --> 00:00:23,980 that this is a reliable tool. 14 00:00:24,260 --> 00:00:27,680 But proof of that is look at any company 25 years ago. 15 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:34,560 like they literally all appear as small caps so how do you know what their actual financial stance 16 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:40,740 was or in position when you can't actually compare a company today to a company 25 years ago because 17 00:00:40,740 --> 00:00:47,000 the dollar is so unstable bitcoin is a currency on the internet if you don't trust any other 18 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,760 currency this is where you go it's going to outperform everything bitcoin could eventually 19 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:55,780 be worthless every day is a good day to buy bitcoin bitcoin reached its highest price to date 20 00:00:55,780 --> 00:00:57,400 Bitcoin hitting a new high. 21 00:00:57,500 --> 00:00:59,220 It really has reached escape velocity. 22 00:00:59,340 --> 00:01:00,360 There is no second best. 23 00:01:00,500 --> 00:01:01,640 Who cares about Bitcoin? 24 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,040 It's the only secure database that's ever been invented. 25 00:01:04,620 --> 00:01:05,100 Antisocial. 26 00:01:05,340 --> 00:01:06,940 Bitcoin is the real deal. 27 00:01:07,140 --> 00:01:07,540 Stupid. 28 00:01:07,900 --> 00:01:09,800 Everything is bullish for Bitcoin. 29 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:10,480 Immoral. 30 00:01:10,740 --> 00:01:12,160 It's going up forever, Laura. 31 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:13,520 Fix the money. 32 00:01:14,100 --> 00:01:14,880 Fix the world. 33 00:01:17,620 --> 00:01:18,960 White Rock is a registered investment advisor, 34 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:20,480 and the opinions expressed on the show are their own 35 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:21,760 and do not reflect the opinions of the Silicon LLC. 36 00:01:21,980 --> 00:01:23,520 Joining us as a CPA and the opinions expressed on the show 37 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:25,000 are their own and do not reflect the opinions of trusted CPA 38 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:25,740 or other affiliated firms. 39 00:01:25,780 --> 00:01:28,480 information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or 40 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,780 solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities investments or investment 41 00:01:30,780 --> 00:01:33,140 strategies investments of all risk and unless otherwise stated are not guaranteed information 42 00:01:33,140 --> 00:01:35,720 expressed does not take into account your specific situation or objectives is not intended as a 43 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:37,780 recommendation appropriate for any individual listeners are encouraged to seek advice from a 44 00:01:37,780 --> 00:01:40,160 qualified tax legal or investment advisor to determine whether any information presented may 45 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,640 be suitable for their specific situation past performance is not indicative of future performance 46 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,760 any statements or opinions are subject to change without notice this investment partners to llc 47 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,060 dba this investment partners this up a federally registered investment advisor under the investment 48 00:01:49,060 --> 00:01:51,780 advisors act of 1940 registration as an investment advisor does not imply a certain level of skill 49 00:01:51,780 --> 00:01:54,000 or training the oral written communications of advisor provide you with the information about 50 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:55,600 which you determine to hire, retain, and advisor. 51 00:01:55,900 --> 00:01:59,720 Business form ADB Part 2A and 2B can be obtained by visiting advisorinfo.sc.gov and searching 52 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:00,340 our firm name. 53 00:02:00,900 --> 00:02:03,900 Neither the information nor any opinion expressed is to be constructed as solicitation to buy 54 00:02:03,900 --> 00:02:05,460 or sell security or personalized investment tax or legal advice. 55 00:02:08,780 --> 00:02:13,000 Welcome to Bitcoin for Financial Services Media, the podcast where sound money meets 56 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:13,980 professional services. 57 00:02:14,460 --> 00:02:18,780 We explore how to build a financial service industry within the principles, values, and 58 00:02:18,780 --> 00:02:19,460 ethos of Bitcoin. 59 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,200 Today, we're joined by Jonathan Camps, CPA at Orange Horizon Wealth. 60 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:25,200 Let's get started. 61 00:02:28,900 --> 00:02:30,040 All righty. 62 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:35,660 Welcome back to another episode of the Bitcoin for Financial Services podcast. 63 00:02:36,700 --> 00:02:39,340 And man, today we've got a treat like we do every week. 64 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:41,200 This week is kind of stacked. 65 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:46,480 We've got several shows to kind of, because I'm out of town next week and the time zones 66 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:47,320 will be a little too crazy. 67 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:54,380 But today we've got Jonathan Camps, who's a CPA. He's at Vista, or is that right? Vista Investment Partners? 68 00:02:54,400 --> 00:03:02,400 Yeah, Vista Investment Partners. Yeah. And we're DBA's Orange Horizon Wealth, which most people might have heard of by now. 69 00:03:03,540 --> 00:03:10,700 Yeah, yeah. Well, welcome to the show. We've got some deep content to go through. 70 00:03:10,700 --> 00:03:15,580 You've put out some really great articles over the course of the past four or five months. 71 00:03:15,700 --> 00:03:19,860 And I know we met out at our summit in Denver. 72 00:03:20,220 --> 00:03:22,500 So glad to be on the pod with you. 73 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,900 And we're neighbors, basically, right? 74 00:03:25,100 --> 00:03:26,240 Basically, next door. 75 00:03:27,420 --> 00:03:27,540 Yeah. 76 00:03:27,540 --> 00:03:27,780 Yeah. 77 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:28,620 I love it. 78 00:03:28,820 --> 00:03:31,980 Just a quick two-hour hop and jump away. 79 00:03:32,420 --> 00:03:33,480 So, well, thanks for coming on, man. 80 00:03:33,540 --> 00:03:34,140 How's your week going? 81 00:03:35,140 --> 00:03:36,080 Oh, it's going great. 82 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:44,040 um, working in business, uh, Bitcoin, you know, Bitcoin is good for business. So 83 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,640 it's always a good time. Yeah. Always a good time. 84 00:03:50,140 --> 00:03:55,080 You guys are on the investment side and tax or tell us a little bit more about like, 85 00:03:55,080 --> 00:04:01,340 just give everyone the quick download on what Vista does. Yeah. So we're a registered RIA, 86 00:04:01,340 --> 00:04:06,700 that basically embraced Bitcoin a few years ago. 87 00:04:06,700 --> 00:04:11,740 We went through a big process of building up a compliance team 88 00:04:11,740 --> 00:04:15,500 to where we can offer Bitcoin to clients and speak on it 89 00:04:15,500 --> 00:04:20,080 because we are strong believers that this is potentially 90 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,420 the greatest innovation of our lifetime. 91 00:04:22,580 --> 00:04:27,000 Even though a lot of people are focused on AI and other investments, 92 00:04:27,260 --> 00:04:29,700 we view Bitcoin as a game changer. 93 00:04:29,700 --> 00:04:36,280 I myself came from the corporate accounting world and got orange-pilled. 94 00:04:37,020 --> 00:04:44,400 And through my process, I joined Vista Investment Partners a couple years ago now. 95 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,900 And we're starting up a tax practice actually this year. 96 00:04:48,980 --> 00:04:57,280 So we will be offering tax services, advisory, and prep for our regular traditional RIA clients, 97 00:04:57,280 --> 00:05:06,060 as well as Bitcoiners that want CPA and tax advisory from a, you know, orange-pilled individual 98 00:05:06,060 --> 00:05:14,240 who sees the asset that they hold the same way and can give good guidance on what to do with that. 99 00:05:14,380 --> 00:05:18,120 So, yeah, we're regular RAA who embraced, got orange-pilled. 100 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,480 Our managing partners are all orange-pilled. 101 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:26,360 And we now are doing tax preparation and advisory services as well. 102 00:05:27,280 --> 00:05:30,900 Wow. So you're going to put me and Wyatt out of business. 103 00:05:31,300 --> 00:05:34,080 One stop shot. Why do we have this guy in the pod? 104 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,240 We're merging. Hey, Bitcoin is good for business. It rises all boats. 105 00:05:39,660 --> 00:05:44,340 There's enough Bitcoiners out there that we'll be okay. 106 00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:48,380 No, dude, absolutely. I love to hear that. 107 00:05:48,380 --> 00:05:54,780 I mean, we are, I would say in some ways, like kind of drowning over here. 108 00:05:54,780 --> 00:06:00,100 There's not enough practitioners on the tax side that are going down this route. 109 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:05,720 And, um, and man, it is, uh, potent, you know, I'm sure you guys have all seen it. 110 00:06:05,740 --> 00:06:10,240 Like people, we have this like give and take where the government is like, they're only 111 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,620 going to continue to like really try to squeeze people on the tax side. 112 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:19,660 And then people are seeing the headlines and they're like, I don't know why I'm sending 113 00:06:19,660 --> 00:06:21,320 money to Washington DC. 114 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:32,220 So I want to make sure I'm working with people who can help me in all the legal avenues, minimize that bill in the short and long term. 115 00:06:32,300 --> 00:06:35,200 So I love to hear that. Congratulations to you guys. 116 00:06:35,660 --> 00:06:43,760 Thanks. Yeah, we're really excited. Honestly, it's been a great couple of years embracing and getting through that hurdle. 117 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:50,620 but yeah it's been really good for us and I know you guys too with the space and everything you're 118 00:06:50,620 --> 00:06:58,880 doing in the podcast there's there's enough people out there that will embrace bitcoin if they hear 119 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:03,020 about it and understand what the problem is that I don't think it's a problem there's not 120 00:07:03,020 --> 00:07:11,800 too too many tax advisors well tax advisors maybe but in the bitcoin space like there's enough 121 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:19,120 people there yeah no certainly certainly and that that's our whole mission is you know get more folks 122 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:24,060 you know on board providing these services um and ultimately offering clients a better experience 123 00:07:24,060 --> 00:07:28,760 yeah jonathan you guys kind of made a splash on your bitcoin twitter so just while you're 124 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:34,400 you know introducing this and orange horizons here you guys recently you opened up a office 125 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:39,400 in rockford which is sweet why don't you kind of walk us through what that process was like 126 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:44,400 And I was particularly surprised by, you know, the reception of the locals. 127 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:53,400 And I think this is kind of maybe a glimpse into the future of, you know, more orange carpets getting rolled out for Bitcoin companies. 128 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,240 And it was awesome to see, you know, your guys' success and reception there. 129 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:58,720 So I would love the inside scoop. 130 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:00,260 Yeah. 131 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,160 So it started several years ago. 132 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:08,160 We were introduced to Jeff Arand through Swan, Ryan Flynn specifically. 133 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,380 And he was basically saying like, hey, you guys might have a lot in common. 134 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:14,260 You guys should talk. 135 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,880 So Jeff was from the traditional brick and mortar RAA, where you're not allowed to talk 136 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:19,560 about Bitcoin. 137 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:21,500 You're not allowed to recommend it. 138 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,500 Even if someone wants to buy it, you're kind of like, I can't help you. 139 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:26,400 You have to go do it on yourself. 140 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,640 And so from his perspective, he was doing a disservice to his clients. 141 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:35,620 And so that started a conversation with us who just launched Orange Rising Wealth. 142 00:08:35,620 --> 00:08:47,980 And over several years, he was able to transition from his old RIA firm to join Orange Horizon Wealth under our umbrella because we're independent. 143 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:54,260 And in that process, he ended up opening up his own branch out of Rockford, Illinois. 144 00:08:54,260 --> 00:09:08,520 So he's not coming, you know, in our building. He's doing his own thing, but he's under our umbrella so he can offer Bitcoin and give advice that he feels is his fiduciary responsibility to his clients. 145 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:16,200 and in that process he had a ribbon cutting and the mayor of rockford shows up the news station 146 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:23,520 shows up the best part is across the hall and i mean like 50 feet away is a brick and mortar ria 147 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:28,440 inside the same building and they're all like peeking and looking over because there was probably 148 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:34,440 a crowd of 50 people that showed up and uh the chamber of commerce from rockford was there and 149 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:40,500 they said that this was the biggest ribbon cutting they've had in a long time so there's a lot of 150 00:09:40,500 --> 00:09:47,140 interest in uh bitcoin sparks interest whether or not it's good or bad people when they hear the word 151 00:09:47,140 --> 00:09:52,260 it you know they have curiosity of what's going on and the best part is there was a couple clients 152 00:09:52,260 --> 00:09:56,980 walking into the other uh brick and mortar and they were looking and they were like i kind of 153 00:09:56,980 --> 00:10:01,540 want to see what's going on over here um and then they end up sending some people that kind of like 154 00:10:01,540 --> 00:10:08,000 interrogate what was going on and who we were and are we crypto uh are we bitcoin and then they you 155 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:15,520 know they do the typical i i heard about about bitcoin in 2012 and then i sold it at a 20 percent 156 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:22,480 game and they're it almost like you're trying to show that i know what this asset is but it shows 157 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:28,500 that they don't truly understand what the asset is um but yeah that's it was really great the 158 00:10:28,500 --> 00:10:31,100 Twitter response was great. 159 00:10:31,220 --> 00:10:34,740 I saw over 100,000 views on some channels, 160 00:10:34,740 --> 00:10:37,680 which shows it was the thing of the day, I guess. 161 00:10:38,060 --> 00:10:40,800 But yeah, congrats to Jeff on making the move. 162 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,120 Congrats to my team for getting it done. 163 00:10:44,260 --> 00:10:45,300 And we're excited. 164 00:10:45,900 --> 00:10:47,020 And we're waiting for more. 165 00:10:47,100 --> 00:10:48,080 Like we're trying to get more. 166 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:49,300 So we're recruiting, you know. 167 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,180 We're like, hey, you want to offer actual Bitcoin, 168 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:53,340 not the ETFs? 169 00:10:54,140 --> 00:10:54,900 We can. 170 00:10:55,100 --> 00:10:56,300 So it's kind of cool. 171 00:10:56,580 --> 00:10:57,020 I love it. 172 00:10:58,500 --> 00:11:05,380 Your wealth deserves intention. Basilic Financial is a Bitcoin-focused wealth management firm built 173 00:11:05,380 --> 00:11:09,720 to help our clients find balance between money and meaning. We integrate sound money strategies 174 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:14,020 across four distinct personalized services, financial planning, individual wealth management, 175 00:11:14,420 --> 00:11:19,740 retirement services for SMBs, and Bitcoin financial services. Your prosperity, your purpose, 176 00:11:20,100 --> 00:11:25,080 intentionally guided at Basilic Financial. Visit our website at basilic.io to schedule 177 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:33,140 free consultation. Well, I want to talk through the article that you put out earlier this year. 178 00:11:34,260 --> 00:11:40,520 I mean, I remember it got, I don't know how I got, maybe you sent it or I saw it on LinkedIn 179 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:46,480 and then I dropped it in the signal group for Bitcoin for Financial Services. I mean, 180 00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:50,240 I think that we could spend, we could kind of live here for a little bit and just kind of 181 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:56,680 talk to the core thesis. I guess maybe to take a step back, because I think it is helpful for 182 00:11:56,680 --> 00:12:04,280 people to understand why it is that you went down this path. In the article, you're talking about 183 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:11,280 COVID, which I hear that a lot from Bitcoiners, especially in that 21, 2020 class of saying, 184 00:12:11,460 --> 00:12:17,740 it didn't really click for me until COVID and the things I saw that happened with the interest rates 185 00:12:17,740 --> 00:12:24,060 going to zero and, and then, you know, the, the Canadian trucker protests and all kinds of things 186 00:12:24,060 --> 00:12:29,040 where you're like, if you're caught on the wrong side of, uh, of the big government, you might, 187 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:34,300 you might want to think through what that looks like from a financial standpoint. So I guess maybe 188 00:12:34,300 --> 00:12:40,220 let's go there first. Let's just talk through any, anything you want to, uh, bring up from 189 00:12:40,220 --> 00:12:45,340 what you were seeing back then from macro data and the client work that you're working on 190 00:12:45,340 --> 00:12:50,460 that kind of made you like the light bulb moment of like, wait, what's going on here? And, 191 00:12:50,540 --> 00:12:57,940 and how do I approach things going forward? Yeah. So this goes back, you know, high school days 192 00:12:57,940 --> 00:13:05,780 where Warren Buffett was like the legend to me. I just admired him and his work ethic and how he 193 00:13:05,780 --> 00:13:12,460 would approach investing. And so I went to college and I got an accounting and business and finance 194 00:13:12,460 --> 00:13:20,000 majors. And so that initially started my journey to be a value investor. So I read all the books, 195 00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:25,280 you know, security analyst and not just read them. I wrote summaries and then summary of the summary 196 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:31,040 because the book's like 900 pages long if you read it and it's just really dense. And so I would 197 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:38,980 try to break it down because I saw what he was doing and I kind of inspired to be able to assess 198 00:13:38,980 --> 00:13:44,020 a company, understand the operations, and then invest and make a lot of money. 199 00:13:44,140 --> 00:13:45,640 That was the long-term goal. 200 00:13:46,420 --> 00:13:54,100 And so what led me down this road is after working in corporate accounting for a decade, 201 00:13:54,840 --> 00:14:01,280 value investing for about eight years, and doing deep research into companies and assessing 202 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:07,420 and doing discount cash flow analysis and looking at all these metrics, there's one 203 00:14:07,420 --> 00:14:13,980 thing that occurred to me and that was we were taught accounting but we were not taught about 204 00:14:13,980 --> 00:14:20,280 the money we were accounting for and I never really questioned the unit that we were measuring 205 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:25,920 and so when you're assessing a company and you're looking at this oh hey they're growing at eight 206 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:31,400 percent a year and you're you know you're forecasting and then doing a DCF on what you 207 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:36,400 think those operations will be and you're using all those metrics you're using nominal terms 208 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:51,535 which might be growing more than the actual nominal but you don realize that because in a financial statement they numbers They not discounting or using a net present value of what that is in real terms 209 00:14:51,535 --> 00:14:58,115 compared to other things. You're using the dollar as if it's stable. And so that was kind of what 210 00:14:58,115 --> 00:15:06,816 COVID happened and all the craziness with that real estate jumping up 30 to 50% everywhere. 211 00:15:06,816 --> 00:15:14,255 you had the entire new car industry shut down and they were all those prices were going up 30 40 50 212 00:15:14,255 --> 00:15:19,196 because i was in the used car uh corporate world for a while so i was watching what was happening 213 00:15:19,196 --> 00:15:26,415 and we were all like a little confused and um then it got to companies i was value investing 214 00:15:26,415 --> 00:15:31,856 in i was assessing them and they're coming up as seven or eight p.e ratios meaning they lost like 215 00:15:31,856 --> 00:15:39,436 60 to 70% of their market cap within a month. And that kind of was the light bulb moment of like, 216 00:15:39,576 --> 00:15:43,615 I should be rejoicing right now because these look like the greatest buys ever, 217 00:15:43,836 --> 00:15:49,056 but something is off because you had other companies, I won't say their names, but they 218 00:15:49,056 --> 00:15:54,436 were at thousand plus PE ratios. And I was like, this makes literally no sense. It doesn't even 219 00:15:54,436 --> 00:16:00,456 matter if they only a hundred X, like if you're buying a thousand PE ratio company from a value 220 00:16:00,456 --> 00:16:06,556 investors perspective, right? I'm not talking a price appreciation, but from a deep value, 221 00:16:07,076 --> 00:16:11,275 you just wouldn't ever touch it. But then it goes up more and more. And then you had meme coins, 222 00:16:11,796 --> 00:16:19,255 meme stocks. And so that kind of had to reassess what I thought I knew about money and the markets. 223 00:16:19,255 --> 00:16:26,296 And then that's kind of what led me down videos, looking up Andrea Antopolis. And then he kind of 224 00:16:26,296 --> 00:16:33,216 opened my eyes to reading about the Bitcoin standard. And then I basically read every book 225 00:16:33,216 --> 00:16:39,875 you can find on money and Bitcoin. I read Jekyll Island. You know, you read Seven, the Property, 226 00:16:39,995 --> 00:16:46,855 you understand how Bitcoin actually works. And that's kind of what started my transition of 227 00:16:46,855 --> 00:16:54,956 changing my measurement tool of how valuable or healthy is this company. So long, you know, 228 00:16:54,956 --> 00:17:02,056 the long story short is basically you're doing things for 10 years and then you get, you see the 229 00:17:02,056 --> 00:17:06,616 red pill and the blue pill, you take the red pill and then you realize everything you thought you 230 00:17:06,616 --> 00:17:13,656 knew about finance was actually not taught. You're kind of assuming the reference you're using is 231 00:17:13,656 --> 00:17:23,116 reliable. And if you question that, it makes you question everything. Yeah, no, I mean, I think 232 00:17:23,116 --> 00:17:49,255 Probably Wyatt and I definitely have seen that. And I mean, I've seen it more like in small business world, right? It's like, okay, you're depreciating an asset and then maybe you're trying to also set money aside to replace that asset or at least like account for that within strategic meetings to say like, okay, like I used to work with a big, you know, coffee roaster and they'd spend, you know, a hundred thousand dollars on one of these big roasters. 233 00:17:49,255 --> 00:18:04,355 And you're trying to measure that, right? Of like, okay, well then this will only last us a decade or a decade and a half at the most. And then we're going to have to go figure out how we're going to actually replace that asset. 234 00:18:04,355 --> 00:18:31,956 And if the ground is like moving and sliding beneath your feet, right? Like how do you plan for that as a business owner? And the answer I think is extremely difficult. And that's probably why you see so many small businesses, whether they know the reason or not, that's why they go under. It's just because they can't plan for this uncertain future that they're having to live through. 235 00:18:31,956 --> 00:18:38,896 So, yeah, I mean, if you worked in that world too, you know, I'm presenting financial statements 236 00:18:38,896 --> 00:18:43,495 and operation performance, and you're looking at measurements of like, hey, we're growing 237 00:18:43,495 --> 00:18:44,816 five, six, seven, 8%. 238 00:18:44,816 --> 00:18:47,755 And you think that's great year over year. 239 00:18:47,855 --> 00:18:49,995 You're like, hey, we're really growing here. 240 00:18:50,216 --> 00:18:52,896 But then you're not able to acquire future inventory. 241 00:18:53,976 --> 00:18:55,176 Things aren't adding up. 242 00:18:55,255 --> 00:18:56,736 You're like, well, we're growing. 243 00:18:56,976 --> 00:19:01,835 Our profits should be able to acquire more goods and services to continue that business. 244 00:19:01,956 --> 00:19:20,755 And to your point, eventually, if you're measuring wrong, like you'll hit that point to where your prices now have to go up or your quality is going down or you're just shutting down entirely because you get underwater in debt that you thought you could service, but you're not able to acquire the future goods. 245 00:19:20,755 --> 00:19:27,275 And that's kind of what stood out to me when I wanted to write this article is business after business. 246 00:19:27,476 --> 00:19:29,716 I'm helping and on paper, they look great. 247 00:19:29,716 --> 00:19:36,015 But the reality of what's going on in the world is worse than what's happening on their balance sheet. 248 00:19:36,676 --> 00:19:39,716 And so eventually, you know, something's going to have to give. 249 00:19:39,835 --> 00:19:48,696 And it sucks because we should be able to run a business and store in something that is stable enough to plan long term. 250 00:19:48,696 --> 00:19:51,315 And instead, now we're making short term decisions. 251 00:19:51,315 --> 00:19:55,015 We're making malinvestments because we thought it looked good. 252 00:19:55,095 --> 00:19:59,535 And then to your point, the ground moved under our feet and now we're underwater. 253 00:19:59,716 --> 00:20:07,295 yes it's really well said jonathan i think it's such an important point and it's honestly one of 254 00:20:07,295 --> 00:20:13,795 the biggest tools i use to orange pill people is trying to help them understand it's like look 255 00:20:13,795 --> 00:20:18,335 you're not using a consistent measuring stick here uh yeah i kind of think of it as if money 256 00:20:18,335 --> 00:20:22,936 is the base market and every other market is built on top of that and the value of that market is 257 00:20:22,936 --> 00:20:27,416 constantly manipulating and shifting it's like you're building a house on sand and it's like 258 00:20:27,416 --> 00:20:28,736 you're doomed to fail. 259 00:20:28,855 --> 00:20:30,055 And it's unfortunate 260 00:20:30,055 --> 00:20:32,676 and just obviously nothing you can do about it 261 00:20:32,676 --> 00:20:34,275 besides opt out, you know, 262 00:20:34,275 --> 00:20:35,476 and go on Bitcoin standard 263 00:20:35,476 --> 00:20:38,176 and use a more solid unit of account. 264 00:20:39,555 --> 00:20:40,555 Yeah, because you don't know 265 00:20:40,555 --> 00:20:41,976 if you're measuring the table or the ruler. 266 00:20:42,555 --> 00:20:44,156 That's kind of my main point. 267 00:20:44,335 --> 00:20:46,295 Like, what are you measuring here? 268 00:20:46,456 --> 00:20:48,976 You measuring operation improvement and growth? 269 00:20:49,095 --> 00:20:50,555 Are you measuring monetary debasement? 270 00:20:52,636 --> 00:20:54,035 Yeah, when you made a point 271 00:20:54,035 --> 00:20:56,075 in that last piece right there 272 00:20:56,075 --> 00:20:57,116 where you just said, 273 00:20:57,416 --> 00:21:04,436 measure in a more stable unit, right? I think for someone coming in off the street and they, 274 00:21:04,535 --> 00:21:07,855 you know, they click on this video and they're like, oh, these guys are talking about Bitcoin, 275 00:21:08,055 --> 00:21:15,656 interesting. And they hear into a more stable unit and they, you know, and they exist in the 276 00:21:15,656 --> 00:21:22,355 year 2026 and they, you know, they watch CNBC maybe on the TV while they're working. And they're 277 00:21:22,355 --> 00:21:29,535 like, well, I don't get that. That doesn't compute in my brain. Can you go down that path of why you 278 00:21:29,535 --> 00:21:37,515 would argue that Bitcoin is a stable unit when measured correctly? Yeah. Well, measuring in 279 00:21:37,515 --> 00:21:44,476 terms, it may appear very volatile. Although we know that the dollar is extremely volatile. 280 00:21:44,476 --> 00:21:50,815 Well, interest rates, they alter, they print more or destroy through paying off debt. 281 00:21:51,436 --> 00:21:53,136 And their measuring stick is moving. 282 00:21:53,355 --> 00:21:57,916 But when that is your unit of account, then it appears stable. 283 00:21:57,916 --> 00:22:01,095 But in reality, the prices of everything are changing. 284 00:22:01,736 --> 00:22:07,495 Bitcoin from that perspective, or you can use gold, gold or Bitcoin, the price may be changing. 285 00:22:07,495 --> 00:22:12,535 But the quantity of that item is in Bitcoin terms fixed. 286 00:22:12,535 --> 00:22:31,315 So we know that there's only 21 million or really 20 million point nine, nine, nine, nine, whatever, but basically 21 million of those units ever. So you can basically approach long term decisions on how much of this network or percent of this monetary unit or good. Am I growing? 287 00:22:31,315 --> 00:22:39,976 So if you're accumulating more Bitcoin in Bitcoin terms every year, you can actually assess whether or not you are achieving profit. 288 00:22:40,095 --> 00:22:46,775 If that's your capital, your unit of account that you're using, the capital good, then you know if you're increasing that unit. 289 00:22:46,916 --> 00:22:52,995 So stable in the sense of you know the denominator you are measuring everything in is not changing. 290 00:22:52,995 --> 00:23:08,795 Now, in fiat terms, it may change. But I think because we have been the dollar reserve currency of the world, we assume that the dollar is stable or fixed when in reality nothing is stable or fixed unless it's controlled. 291 00:23:08,795 --> 00:23:15,595 It's not a free market when you're altering all of the underlying properties of that money. 292 00:23:15,696 --> 00:23:29,936 That just basically means that we are either diluting or we are manipulating those figures to have an illusion of growth or stability when you could feel it today. 293 00:23:30,075 --> 00:23:32,716 I mean, things are growing at 10, 20% a year. 294 00:23:32,716 --> 00:23:38,376 So is pricing of everything in dollars is also not stable? 295 00:23:38,376 --> 00:23:42,716 And so people just assume because you have $1, hey, this is stable. 296 00:23:42,815 --> 00:23:43,095 It's $1. 297 00:23:43,416 --> 00:23:46,095 But that dollar is getting you less and less goods every year. 298 00:23:46,236 --> 00:23:49,676 So it's not stable in the sense of what you're acquiring in goods. 299 00:23:49,676 --> 00:23:51,815 It's only stable in nominal terms. 300 00:23:53,075 --> 00:23:53,555 Yeah. 301 00:23:53,636 --> 00:23:58,916 And I do want to dig into kind of some of the equity analysis you did behind that in the article. 302 00:23:59,515 --> 00:24:07,335 But one of the things I want to double click on you mentioned, I think the finance industry is notorious for making these assumptions because, you know, also finance major. 303 00:24:07,335 --> 00:24:12,636 and this never really clicks for me until I was a Bitcoiner. 304 00:24:12,795 --> 00:24:14,775 But, you know, in corporate finance, it was like, 305 00:24:14,855 --> 00:24:16,075 well, you know, you're whack. 306 00:24:16,156 --> 00:24:18,755 You're weighted average cost of capital, you know, risk free rate, 2%. 307 00:24:18,755 --> 00:24:22,676 It's just blindly 2% in every financial model ever. 308 00:24:22,815 --> 00:24:24,835 It was like, where's this number even come from? 309 00:24:25,095 --> 00:24:26,196 Don't challenge it. 310 00:24:26,335 --> 00:24:29,456 Don't bother, you know, tweaking it because that's what everybody uses. 311 00:24:31,136 --> 00:24:33,396 Yeah, and that's if you're using a 2%. 312 00:24:33,396 --> 00:24:36,236 But once again, that's based on CPI. 313 00:24:36,236 --> 00:24:41,656 And from a Bitcoin's perspective, when you've done the work, you realize C&P is non-inflation. 314 00:24:41,995 --> 00:24:46,976 It's literally just a proxy in the basket that they use to measure prices constantly changing. 315 00:24:47,216 --> 00:24:51,956 And majority of the goods in the basket were substitute goods already. 316 00:24:52,116 --> 00:24:59,575 So they'll go from ribeye to ground beef or they'll have like VHS tapes in there, which clearly nobody has. 317 00:24:59,575 --> 00:25:03,795 or just whatever they use to make that number appear better. 318 00:25:04,156 --> 00:25:07,595 Because true inflation is monetary expansion. 319 00:25:07,976 --> 00:25:10,656 And they don't want to tell you, hey, every nine to 10 years, 320 00:25:10,815 --> 00:25:14,995 you're losing half your purchasing power at current M2 growth. 321 00:25:15,196 --> 00:25:17,396 Because if you said that, there'd be riots in the streets. 322 00:25:17,876 --> 00:25:23,196 And so they kind of have to pitch this idea that it's 2% inflation target. 323 00:25:23,656 --> 00:25:24,476 Things are stable. 324 00:25:24,995 --> 00:25:29,456 But yeah, in finance, they literally are assuming that this is a reliable tool. 325 00:25:29,575 --> 00:25:33,176 But proof of that is look at any company 25 years ago. 326 00:25:34,116 --> 00:25:36,315 Like they literally all appear as small caps. 327 00:25:36,676 --> 00:25:47,555 So how do you know what their actual financial stance was or in position when you can't actually compare a company today to a company 25 years ago because the dollar is so unstable? 328 00:25:48,476 --> 00:25:51,275 So that'd be my answer to the stability of the dollar, I guess. 329 00:25:51,275 --> 00:25:57,075 Just look 20 years down the road or your grandparents were making what, $2, $3 an hour. 330 00:25:57,075 --> 00:26:00,275 and in those terms we'd be able to acquire, 331 00:26:00,396 --> 00:26:01,495 let's say 10 cheeseburgers. 332 00:26:01,936 --> 00:26:04,575 I can't work that much time 333 00:26:04,575 --> 00:26:05,976 to acquire the same amount of goods. 334 00:26:06,636 --> 00:26:08,476 So it's all about that measuring stick 335 00:26:08,476 --> 00:26:09,236 of what you're using. 336 00:26:10,196 --> 00:26:12,035 Yeah, price of Bitcoin is one Bitcoin 337 00:26:12,035 --> 00:26:15,436 and my co-host is on a VHS standard. 338 00:26:15,795 --> 00:26:19,015 So if we could maybe keep the VHS slander to a minimum, 339 00:26:19,515 --> 00:26:20,255 that'd be appreciated. 340 00:26:21,055 --> 00:26:24,015 Only because all the new movies are, 341 00:26:24,616 --> 00:26:26,436 I don't know what the right PC word is, 342 00:26:26,436 --> 00:26:30,396 But, you know, we just prefer, you know, the old school Disney. 343 00:26:30,775 --> 00:26:31,755 Classic Lion King. 344 00:26:32,176 --> 00:26:32,575 Yep. 345 00:26:33,315 --> 00:26:34,095 I'm on it. 346 00:26:34,855 --> 00:26:36,216 And they can't change it. 347 00:26:36,295 --> 00:26:38,716 You know, I don't know if you guys have seen that on Disney Plus. 348 00:26:39,136 --> 00:26:43,315 They might adjust, you know, some things or they might put some like, you know. 349 00:26:43,755 --> 00:26:45,795 So, yeah, I might be a VHS maxi. 350 00:26:46,495 --> 00:26:48,795 So, but I'm a Bitcoiner and an AI guy. 351 00:26:48,876 --> 00:26:50,555 So, I'm playing in both worlds. 352 00:26:50,555 --> 00:26:58,416 If you're a financial professional working with Bitcoin, you know the pain of messy CSVs, 353 00:26:58,416 --> 00:27:04,295 broken cost basis, and accounting tools that were never built for this asset. Bitment fixes that. 354 00:27:04,736 --> 00:27:09,916 Bitment is the Bitcoin-native accounting platform built for CPAs, bookkeepers, advisors, 355 00:27:10,355 --> 00:27:15,176 miners, and serious Bitcoin investors. You get clean Bitcoin bank statements, 356 00:27:15,495 --> 00:27:19,976 reliable cost basis tracking, full reporting, and fiat integration through Plaid. 357 00:27:20,355 --> 00:27:22,236 No crypto talk, no workarounds, 358 00:27:22,335 --> 00:27:24,815 just proper accounting for the hardest money on earth. 359 00:27:25,255 --> 00:27:28,515 Create a free account or book a demo at bitment.co today. 360 00:27:29,656 --> 00:27:32,755 The one thing I want to bring up on this front is, 361 00:27:32,855 --> 00:27:35,916 I don't know if you guys have heard of this guy named Dr. John Dorrell. 362 00:27:36,216 --> 00:27:37,595 Is that named Maria Bell to either of you? 363 00:27:37,976 --> 00:27:40,335 He's a professor down at University of Tampa. 364 00:27:41,855 --> 00:27:45,755 If you haven't interacted with any of his stuff or anyone listening, 365 00:27:46,416 --> 00:27:47,535 he's a great resource. 366 00:27:47,636 --> 00:27:48,916 I don't know if he has a ton of content. 367 00:27:48,916 --> 00:27:58,196 I've only seen him speak in person when I've been down in Florida at a few events, but he has this great, he's very good at like these visual analogies. 368 00:27:58,775 --> 00:28:03,236 So one that he, that I've seen him do a couple of times now is he'll hold up an ounce of gold. 369 00:28:03,495 --> 00:28:03,896 Right. 370 00:28:04,156 --> 00:28:12,515 And he will be like, does anyone know what this, you know, was worth in when we went off the gold standard in 1971 or whatever? 371 00:28:12,775 --> 00:28:16,436 And he'll wait, you know, he'll be like, seriously, does anyone know what this is worth? 372 00:28:16,436 --> 00:28:20,176 And I always forget, but I think he says like $35 an ounce. 373 00:28:20,376 --> 00:28:20,815 Right. 374 00:28:21,156 --> 00:28:25,616 And then he's like, now this is worth, you know, whatever it is today. 375 00:28:25,616 --> 00:28:25,956 Right. 376 00:28:26,055 --> 00:28:28,916 Forty eight hundred or five thousand or whatever it is today. 377 00:28:29,055 --> 00:28:30,176 I don't follow it too closely. 378 00:28:30,535 --> 00:28:30,936 Fifty one hundred. 379 00:28:31,136 --> 00:28:31,535 Yeah. 380 00:28:31,616 --> 00:28:32,156 Give or take. 381 00:28:32,255 --> 00:28:32,755 Fifty one hundred. 382 00:28:33,216 --> 00:28:34,976 So so he makes that. 383 00:28:35,136 --> 00:28:40,676 It's a very powerful illustration to say, like, this little, you know, circle, it looks like a quarter. 384 00:28:41,035 --> 00:28:42,916 You know, he's just like this didn't change. 385 00:28:42,916 --> 00:28:51,535 the measuring uh stick uh changed right and this didn't get more valuable really uh the the thing 386 00:28:51,535 --> 00:28:57,275 that you're the units that you're applying against it got way less valuable um so that's one and then 387 00:28:57,275 --> 00:29:01,495 the other fun it's a it's not as it might be more powerful actually but it's it's just different 388 00:29:01,495 --> 00:29:06,775 is he'll take a dollar like a dollar bill or a 20 dollar bill and he'll just start ripping little 389 00:29:06,775 --> 00:29:12,495 pieces off of it and he throws it into you know off of the stage and he the illustration is like 390 00:29:12,495 --> 00:29:18,595 this is what is happening actually to your dollar every year when they debase you seven to eight 391 00:29:18,595 --> 00:29:24,736 percent a year so anyways i think it's um i just love that he's a very visual guy and does things 392 00:29:24,736 --> 00:29:36,391 that are like wait this guy ripping up a dollar isn that illegal and or and but i get it That crazy So anyways if you haven looked into his stuff he very just a good guy to follow 393 00:29:36,651 --> 00:29:38,111 So not really a question there. 394 00:29:38,151 --> 00:29:39,431 I just wanted to throw that out there. 395 00:29:39,811 --> 00:29:41,411 Yeah, something I want to build on there too, Jordan, 396 00:29:41,491 --> 00:29:45,551 because I think specifically in our advisor role, 397 00:29:45,551 --> 00:29:47,831 I use kind of a similar example 398 00:29:47,831 --> 00:29:49,751 when I'm sitting down with my financial planning clients. 399 00:29:49,871 --> 00:29:51,371 You know, we use a bottle of Coke and it's like, 400 00:29:51,811 --> 00:29:54,651 okay, you know, if you're 40 and we're projecting out, 401 00:29:54,651 --> 00:30:02,431 you know 50 years until you know end of plan at age 90 it's like one conceptualizing growth of 402 00:30:02,431 --> 00:30:06,031 assets which can be difficult and obviously forecasting more of an art than a science 403 00:30:06,031 --> 00:30:11,631 but then also understanding the for uh the growth of you know expenses like everybody gets excited 404 00:30:11,631 --> 00:30:16,371 about their portfolio growing they really kind of ignore like the expense side you know of their 405 00:30:16,371 --> 00:30:21,531 lives growing and so we really use this as an exercise to like ground us in like how much can 406 00:30:21,531 --> 00:30:27,211 change over you know a relatively short amount of time you know a generation or two certainly 407 00:30:27,211 --> 00:30:31,851 you know over the course of your living life and what you need to plan for and they're always like 408 00:30:31,851 --> 00:30:36,951 shocked and it's just kind of like this yeah like kind of like the shock factor we use it's like 409 00:30:36,951 --> 00:30:41,491 okay whoa it's like we really need to be you're planning on the long-term horizons and you know 410 00:30:41,491 --> 00:30:45,991 it's just day by day and you're just constantly getting chipped away at a little bit and a little 411 00:30:45,991 --> 00:30:50,471 bit you don't really notice but you know if you zoom out and actually look at the trend it's like 412 00:30:50,471 --> 00:30:55,771 it's shocking. And it's like, well, we need to comprehend this. And I'm sure you guys talk about 413 00:30:55,771 --> 00:31:02,291 that stuff all the time, Jonathan. Yeah. I have a illustration I use with high school kids or 414 00:31:02,291 --> 00:31:08,751 college kids that ask, you know, like about money or if we have an intern, I'll take a bag of sand, 415 00:31:08,751 --> 00:31:13,691 I'll poke holes in it and I'll have, you know, a bunch of sand in a scooper. And so while you're 416 00:31:13,691 --> 00:31:18,091 bleeding out, you have to pour more money in. I'm explaining like, this is what your income 417 00:31:18,091 --> 00:31:23,431 is doing with your actual purchasing power. You have to constantly refill it. Otherwise, 418 00:31:23,571 --> 00:31:28,011 you're going to bleed out over time. And then you obviously have the steel jar, you know, 419 00:31:28,011 --> 00:31:33,871 the stable reference of putting that in. And the difference of in nominal terms, 420 00:31:33,971 --> 00:31:40,491 those will be different because they may price this steel jar differently than the units in here. 421 00:31:40,591 --> 00:31:47,951 But I know this is a of the unit itself will not dilute. And so as long as the market grows to value, 422 00:31:47,951 --> 00:31:53,111 this item more than whatever is bleeding out, then you're going to be winning in real terms. 423 00:31:53,211 --> 00:31:59,231 I kind of use that for my kids and other interns. But yeah, I mean, it's illustrations are very 424 00:31:59,231 --> 00:32:05,191 powerful because we can talk numbers, but if you don't see it, it kind of doesn't resonate with you 425 00:32:05,191 --> 00:32:09,991 until you're feeling it. And I feel like most people are feeling it now. And that's kind of why 426 00:32:09,991 --> 00:32:16,271 they'll go off on more risk on assets. So we can kind of see the markets waking up. 427 00:32:17,951 --> 00:32:24,671 yeah it's interesting john so in in terms of the the market once you kind of 428 00:32:24,671 --> 00:32:30,991 dig into some of the work and research you did for the article and how really inflation or 429 00:32:30,991 --> 00:32:36,491 monetary you know expansion is really kind of fueling you know equity growth and how you guys 430 00:32:36,491 --> 00:32:44,851 talk to clients so this is where my like passion went into i started wanting to assess historical 431 00:32:44,851 --> 00:32:50,811 data of assets because, you know, being an investor and a value investor and assuming 432 00:32:50,811 --> 00:32:56,471 inflation rates or asset price increase, we always hear that, you know, real estate's a 433 00:32:56,471 --> 00:33:02,551 great investment or you always hear the S&P will always go up and it averages 10, whatever, say, 434 00:33:02,711 --> 00:33:09,971 percent a year. But it really goes based on what time frame, because if you're going based on like 435 00:33:09,971 --> 00:33:16,491 a hundred year investment, typically investments match M2, like to the T. It's almost like the 436 00:33:16,491 --> 00:33:22,871 same number, but over periods of time, they'll fluctuate. And so I started assessing companies, 437 00:33:23,551 --> 00:33:31,231 the S&P 500, I did NASDAQ, I did the median household income, median home price. And if you 438 00:33:31,231 --> 00:33:37,551 start looking over 50, 20, 10 years, they're all basically growing at the same rate of M2. 439 00:33:37,551 --> 00:33:55,231 And so when you start assessing from that perspective, you're actually not growing in real terms. You're literally treading water. Now, there are certain assets that sometimes that will grow exponentially, but they're almost forecasting the future print. 440 00:33:55,231 --> 00:34:01,831 And so the S&P for the last five years have grown about 15%, but M2 has been growing 7.4. 441 00:34:02,431 --> 00:34:08,231 So if you're not growing more than seven, you're actually in real terms losing purchasing power. 442 00:34:08,551 --> 00:34:13,971 So I spent many months just gathering data of all these investments because I wanted to know, 443 00:34:14,671 --> 00:34:19,671 okay, nominally it appears I'm getting wealthier, but what's really happening behind the scenes? 444 00:34:19,671 --> 00:34:48,431 And so if you look in chart form, you know, price is going up. But when you look at the denominator, the monetary expansion was going up at the same rate. And very few investments are actually outpacing inflation. And that was the really scary moment for me. When you look at in chart form, many companies, not companies, but assets like mainstream assets we're investing in might be beating the hurdle rate by 1%. But you have unlimited risk. 445 00:34:48,431 --> 00:34:57,351 so you're like okay i have a one to two percent buffer on the monetary debasement but risk is 446 00:34:57,351 --> 00:35:04,411 not it's almost not worth the risk and so you're unless you're willing to uh you know put up some 447 00:35:04,411 --> 00:35:10,551 capital but most people are not investors they're savers but now you're forced to be aggressive 448 00:35:10,551 --> 00:35:17,011 in your savings which means now you're at risk of loss of capital it's a really messed up system so 449 00:35:17,011 --> 00:35:22,471 when people are saving in real estate and they think that's like a good investment they're losing 450 00:35:22,471 --> 00:35:26,891 about two to three percent of purchasing power every year for the last 10 years and those are 451 00:35:26,891 --> 00:35:34,531 more of the eye openings and why bitcoin may appear very volatile long term it is one of the few 452 00:35:34,531 --> 00:35:41,511 asset classes today that actually beat monetary expansion but it beats it so 453 00:35:41,511 --> 00:35:48,491 on a long-term basis has beaten it so bad that it's worth handling the volatility on the downside 454 00:35:48,491 --> 00:35:54,411 as long as you know no matter what i'm losing here if i don't do something and that's why 455 00:35:54,411 --> 00:35:58,331 bitcoin gets more attractive because if you sit still you're down eight percent a year 456 00:35:58,331 --> 00:36:02,591 well it's crazy i read an interesting thread the other day and it was just 457 00:36:02,591 --> 00:36:07,991 that the s&p 500 is largely become like a savings account or people are viewing it as a savings 458 00:36:07,991 --> 00:36:12,231 account, which is just such an interesting indication of how far you have to move out 459 00:36:12,231 --> 00:36:14,291 in the risk spectrum just to stay where you're at. 460 00:36:15,331 --> 00:36:18,711 Monetization of all assets because money is not serving its purpose. 461 00:36:18,891 --> 00:36:19,011 Yeah. 462 00:36:19,631 --> 00:36:21,951 Store value has been lost in our money. 463 00:36:23,251 --> 00:36:25,631 We'll talk through the other side of the equation. 464 00:36:25,751 --> 00:36:31,291 I always find it so interesting that we've been talking kind of more about these equities, 465 00:36:31,471 --> 00:36:32,131 things like that. 466 00:36:32,131 --> 00:36:38,271 I guess for the listener who's like, well, I'm older, you know, I'm, I'm wealthy and I want to, 467 00:36:38,411 --> 00:36:45,271 I want to have a good chunk of, of my, uh, portfolio and fixed income. Uh, I think Bitcoiners 468 00:36:45,271 --> 00:36:52,411 have a pretty specific, uh, in particular view on, on that market, which is like what, uh, you know, 469 00:36:52,771 --> 00:37:00,351 multitudes more in, uh, in market cap than the equity, um, bucket. So maybe talk through just 470 00:37:00,351 --> 00:37:04,431 What does that look like? Because isn't it? Yeah. It's even more dim, right? 471 00:37:05,071 --> 00:37:14,631 Yeah. The 60 40 portfolio. We as a firm, in my personal opinion, is regarding bonds, you know, I'm 35. 472 00:37:14,891 --> 00:37:23,711 So to me, bonds are are dead. Like there's no point of me having bonds, but I'm also have a long time risk horizon. 473 00:37:23,711 --> 00:37:36,571 And so for people that are not as risk averse as me because they have certain things in their life, we're not zero bonds, but we're not zero Bitcoin. 474 00:37:37,191 --> 00:37:44,711 And so when it comes to the whole bond argument, it really comes down to each client and their risk tolerance. 475 00:37:44,711 --> 00:37:51,591 tolerance, as long as they're aware, like, hey, inflation is eight, your bond of five and a half 476 00:37:51,591 --> 00:37:57,551 is not hurtling that. But if you're unable to risk the tolerance, like risk tolerance of 477 00:37:57,551 --> 00:38:04,791 you're losing 20 to 30% of your equity, we understand that. So it's more of the educational 478 00:38:04,791 --> 00:38:09,911 aspect. And I can say, you know, when people ask about Bitcoin, they're like, how much should I put 479 00:38:09,911 --> 00:38:17,431 in Bitcoin? I don't know that answer, but I do know it's not zero. And so that's my answer to 480 00:38:17,431 --> 00:38:22,531 anyone asks what allocation percentage. I don't know, but it doesn't matter how old you are. It's 481 00:38:22,531 --> 00:38:28,591 not zero. And so that person that might want more heavy bonds will have a smaller Bitcoin allocation 482 00:38:28,591 --> 00:38:36,691 and will have maybe a smaller equity, but bonds, even though they are return-free risk, 483 00:38:36,691 --> 00:38:48,011 As Greg Foss said, it's not zero in everyone's portfolio, even if we hate bonds because you're bleeding purchasing power slowly. 484 00:38:48,411 --> 00:38:52,791 For some people, they have less time available in the market. 485 00:38:53,391 --> 00:39:04,051 And so as a fiduciary, we're kind of forced to walk with them throughout their journey to make sure that we're not being too risk on. 486 00:39:04,051 --> 00:39:10,731 but the preferreds are very attractive too. And so we're kind of doing some deep research on the 487 00:39:10,731 --> 00:39:18,331 preferreds and what that actually means, um, from a advisor perspective. Like I can't just say, 488 00:39:18,331 --> 00:39:22,231 we're going to go a hundred percent STRC because they're going to give you a 12% return. 489 00:39:22,631 --> 00:39:28,791 It sounds great. And so far it's worked out perfectly and I would expect it to continue, 490 00:39:28,791 --> 00:39:49,451 But I can't do that in someone who's 80 years old. And there's a risk there that I am ignoring. And that's just being in equity. You know, a company can fail. Sailor can die. I know I would hate to believe that's possible because of what they're doing, but something could change. 491 00:39:49,451 --> 00:40:04,271 And that's just something from our perspective, like someone that is in bonds, they understand that they are bleeding just slower than if they were doing nothing in cash. And sometimes that's okay. If you have something you have to spend in two, three years, you know? 492 00:40:04,271 --> 00:40:10,391 So, yeah. Yeah. I think as long as they know that, uh, that's happening, then that at least 493 00:40:10,391 --> 00:40:14,211 is a step in the right direction versus the vast majority of folks that are just, they don't even 494 00:40:14,211 --> 00:40:19,191 understand the reality there. I guess, you know, I'm sure you get this pushback. I've heard it 495 00:40:19,191 --> 00:40:26,371 before. Uh, you know, CPI comes out, it's, it's like 2.8, 2.9% and all these Bitcoiners come out 496 00:40:26,371 --> 00:40:30,951 and they're like, no, that's just a lie. I know we touched on a little bit, but it might be worth 497 00:40:30,951 --> 00:40:36,271 going back because you know there's this whole you're on the internet and like there's all these 498 00:40:36,271 --> 00:40:42,091 conspiracies and what do you believe and a lot of the conspiracies turn out to be true 499 00:40:42,091 --> 00:40:50,831 for give it enough time but i guess um talk the normal listener into like how do you maybe just 500 00:40:50,831 --> 00:40:56,071 go over one more time how do you back into by supporting with data the seven to eight percent 501 00:40:56,071 --> 00:41:02,951 and essentially, yes, the government is lying to you, I assume, right on all the CPI stuff. 502 00:41:03,691 --> 00:41:07,991 Yeah. So with inflation, we often pay attention to the price increase, 503 00:41:08,251 --> 00:41:13,971 but we completely ignore that prices should be going down as people get more competent 504 00:41:13,971 --> 00:41:19,091 and technology is deflationary. So why is my TV getting more expensive? 505 00:41:19,651 --> 00:41:25,231 If we're getting more efficient on making TVs and technology is deflationary, 506 00:41:25,231 --> 00:41:32,931 Why am I still paying more? And so when you're looking at CPI, one thing people miss is what it should have gone down. 507 00:41:33,231 --> 00:41:41,871 So you kind of have to add that deflationary aspect to the price increase to find a real number of actual inflation. 508 00:41:42,191 --> 00:41:45,831 And if you look at M2, it kind of works out pretty well. 509 00:41:46,211 --> 00:41:53,051 And that's kind of why I use that as my benchmark is that is a number that I can actually look at. 510 00:41:53,051 --> 00:41:58,791 Well, if I can believe the numbers, I'll be frank to say here, I'm looking at a website 511 00:41:58,791 --> 00:42:04,491 that's published from the Fed and those numbers could be a little off or whatnot, but that's what 512 00:42:04,491 --> 00:42:10,551 I have as a reference point. And so if you look at that growth, that's been growing at 6.8% for 513 00:42:10,551 --> 00:42:16,151 the last hundred years. And for the last five years, it's been 7.4%. And if you were to subtract 514 00:42:16,151 --> 00:42:23,791 CPI from that number, 2% to 3%, you would get a 3% to 4% buffer. And it's not crazy to say, 515 00:42:23,871 --> 00:42:31,071 you can't be growing your company and more efficiency 3% to 4%. If you really wanted to 516 00:42:31,071 --> 00:42:37,871 add those two numbers, you kind of have to count the deflationary aspect with the inflationary 517 00:42:37,871 --> 00:42:44,051 to get a real, what prices should be going down. That's kind of what my pitch would be on the price. 518 00:42:44,051 --> 00:42:48,231 Yeah, you have to account for why is nothing going down? 519 00:42:49,051 --> 00:42:50,431 Why is everything going up? 520 00:43:14,051 --> 00:43:18,531 of Bitcoiners and help you stay compliant while building for the long term. To learn more or book 521 00:43:18,531 --> 00:43:25,811 consultation, visit satoshipacioli.com. Well, I want to get both of you all like to speak on this, 522 00:43:25,911 --> 00:43:31,611 you know, even in the last week, a lot of SaaS, a lot of, a lot of, like I saw Schwab was down, 523 00:43:31,611 --> 00:43:39,611 what, eight or 9% earlier this week, I think. And I think Jeff Booth's thesis is starting to play out 524 00:43:39,611 --> 00:43:45,991 that actually, you know, things should be trending down, but we live in this upside down world, 525 00:43:45,991 --> 00:43:51,091 right. Of like, I mean, just take my, my firm, for example, right. We could get more efficient 526 00:43:51,091 --> 00:43:58,351 on the tax returns with, by implementing the correct technology. Um, but we actually have to, 527 00:43:58,551 --> 00:44:04,631 since our costs are going up right on the, on our software stack, on our payroll, 528 00:44:04,631 --> 00:44:34,627 we are actually having to continue to raise prices to your point earlier right We have to at least raise prices more than 5 maybe even more than 7 or 8 a year just so that we can survive But all the while our services should actually you compare how we prepare a tax return today versus how someone did it in the mid like physically writing things on a piece of paper and taking it to the post office 529 00:44:34,627 --> 00:44:41,327 um i guess square that circle for the audience and and how does that lead to and i want to open 530 00:44:41,327 --> 00:44:47,107 up to both you all to to like square that circle how does it how does that lead to the society that 531 00:44:47,107 --> 00:44:56,167 i think we're seeing start to break down in multiple facets yeah so sailor he put out a tweet 532 00:44:56,167 --> 00:45:02,627 and i put it in my article it just when he posted that it just stuck with me he said the road to 533 00:45:02,627 --> 00:45:07,867 serfdom is working exponentially harder for a currency growing exponentially weaker. 534 00:45:08,467 --> 00:45:14,227 And so when you're watching these companies grow nominally and they're getting larger too, 535 00:45:14,407 --> 00:45:21,787 and they're kind of falling back in, in, uh, in real terms, shrinkflation is a real thing. 536 00:45:21,787 --> 00:45:28,206 You know, where you used to buy that candy bar for when I was a kid, you know, 29 cents and it'd 537 00:45:28,206 --> 00:45:36,827 be like a full size candy bar. And today it's $1.29 and it's half the size. And so those are 538 00:45:36,827 --> 00:45:42,087 the corners that you're cutting when, even though you are more efficient in making those candy bars, 539 00:45:42,327 --> 00:45:47,807 the price and costs of everything has gone up so much that you are cutting your quality and you 540 00:45:47,807 --> 00:45:53,927 have to raise prices. So you're kind of getting hit on both sides. And usually we only see the 541 00:45:53,927 --> 00:45:59,627 obvious one, which is the price, but you're missing the hidden changes of the quality. 542 00:45:59,747 --> 00:46:03,987 First, they're using different products. It's not even food anymore. You read the back 543 00:46:03,987 --> 00:46:11,227 of almost anything and it's all seed oil or some type of chemical I cannot pronounce, 544 00:46:11,647 --> 00:46:18,387 where it used to be two ingredients. Now you're cutting corners in the quality of your product. 545 00:46:18,567 --> 00:46:23,907 You're cutting the quantity of that product that you were providing and you raise prices. 546 00:46:23,927 --> 00:46:30,166 and and to add on that the prices aren't going down and the quality is not getting better 547 00:46:30,166 --> 00:46:37,787 yeah it's uh it's insulting right it's a humiliation ritual i remember i was used to 548 00:46:37,787 --> 00:46:42,686 be a big mcdonald's fiend in high school i was like mcdouble dollar six you know i had change 549 00:46:42,686 --> 00:46:50,527 in my car for mcdoubles and now you know it's like 350. yeah yeah exactly and yeah they're awful 550 00:46:50,527 --> 00:46:59,027 you know tastes horrendous and it's half the meat yeah if it's me yeah yeah whatever and i i think i 551 00:46:59,027 --> 00:47:04,347 mean jeff booth is like the best in the world arguably at this you know his lines like prices 552 00:47:04,347 --> 00:47:09,706 fall to the marginal cost of production yeah i think he uses an example of coffee beans where 553 00:47:09,706 --> 00:47:16,567 we can harvest coffee 80 more efficiently than we could 20 30 years ago whatever and the cost the 554 00:47:16,567 --> 00:47:22,647 price of coffee is still rising it's interesting with ai jordan you know because i think like 555 00:47:22,647 --> 00:47:28,487 conceptually that that punchline prices fall to the marginal cost of production 556 00:47:28,487 --> 00:47:35,507 makes sense but nothing at least me personally anecdotally have seen that in more real time here 557 00:47:35,507 --> 00:47:40,087 than like playing with some of these ai tools seeing you know what people have built with ai 558 00:47:40,087 --> 00:47:47,287 tools and larger markets you know i tweeted a graph earlier this week uh you and i jordan went 559 00:47:47,287 --> 00:47:52,927 uh back and forth a little bit on x where you have the price of bitcoin is largely tracked 560 00:47:52,927 --> 00:47:58,206 you know software so it's like the market's perception of bitcoin is just essentially the 561 00:47:58,206 --> 00:48:03,567 same perception it has of you know a crm which i think is insulting as a bitcoiner because it's so 562 00:48:03,567 --> 00:48:08,947 much more than that um and but it can't be replicated in the same way that software can 563 00:48:08,947 --> 00:48:26,507 And so there's just like this total misconception, mispricing of everything, you know, even, you know, silver and gold, you know, precious metals that should be fairly stable are having these, you know, crazy kind of volatile move or, you know, multiple standard deviation moves outside of their normal trading ranges. 564 00:48:26,507 --> 00:48:33,706 and so it just seems to me that like something's coming to a head here i think maybe a little 565 00:48:33,706 --> 00:48:39,107 faster than we all kind of you know anticipated and i'm particularly kind of worried about the 566 00:48:39,107 --> 00:48:44,647 and maybe too strong language but for sake of conversation worried about like the the strength 567 00:48:44,647 --> 00:48:51,767 of u.s the economy just because largely you know since 2010 most of our you know gp or stock market 568 00:48:51,767 --> 00:48:56,807 growth has been software companies, you know, just blindly invest in software number go up. 569 00:48:57,107 --> 00:49:03,087 And I think that's really coming to a reckoning. Dude, I was at this market outlook, you know, 570 00:49:03,267 --> 00:49:06,527 I work out of this wealth management firm, right. And I went to their market outlook 571 00:49:06,527 --> 00:49:13,907 events like two weeks ago. I want to get to your thoughts on this too. So it was so bullish. The 572 00:49:13,907 --> 00:49:18,567 whole thing was like, markets are going to, you know, they're going to rip this year, everything's 573 00:49:18,567 --> 00:49:23,527 going up. And, um, and I was just sitting back kind of having the thought that you're having 574 00:49:23,527 --> 00:49:28,627 wide of like, man, I don't know. Like I talked to real, I talked to real people all the time. 575 00:49:28,706 --> 00:49:33,567 I don't know. And, and, uh, you know, I might get in trouble for saying this, but I, I, uh, 576 00:49:33,567 --> 00:49:42,567 it almost felt to me like, man, are these, are these like outsourced salespeople for keep your 577 00:49:42,567 --> 00:49:46,387 money in the market, even when times get tough. And I get that. Like, I understand you have to 578 00:49:46,387 --> 00:49:52,427 keep your money in the market. But if everyone is feeling this, like what's going on, the reading 579 00:49:52,427 --> 00:49:57,367 that article, I'm sure you guys saw that went viral on Twitter yesterday about how AI is 580 00:49:57,367 --> 00:50:01,247 accelerating to a point where, you know, you walk into a restaurant today. I don't know if you guys 581 00:50:01,247 --> 00:50:06,007 feel this. Like I walk into a restaurant or any like public place, like a Walmart or something. 582 00:50:06,007 --> 00:50:11,547 I'm like, no one knows. Like no one understands. They're not using Claude. They're not like in the 583 00:50:11,547 --> 00:50:16,327 terminal. They're not building like little apps to make them be more efficient. And that guy laid 584 00:50:16,327 --> 00:50:21,927 that article out like so well to be like oh i've been polite you know people are and he's a software 585 00:50:21,927 --> 00:50:26,587 person who's in ai so you know dinner parties people are like oh is this thing crazy or whatever 586 00:50:26,587 --> 00:50:31,907 he's like oh whatever it's like it we'll see you know kind of being polite right and then that 587 00:50:31,907 --> 00:50:37,166 article he's like no it's okay i can't hold back anymore like people have to understand 588 00:50:37,166 --> 00:50:45,647 and um yeah bitcoin's so well positioned for a world like that that where prices do have to fall 589 00:50:45,647 --> 00:50:52,507 and you do have to and especially if we see agents uh i saw albi hub talking about how they had a 590 00:50:52,507 --> 00:50:58,227 lightning uh product that was built entirely by agents they're trading with each other in lightning 591 00:50:58,227 --> 00:51:07,147 orange pilling other agents yeah but like the normal person man i just it's hard it's i it's 592 00:51:07,147 --> 00:51:12,327 moving so quickly um even i'm overwhelmed at times and i feel like i'm you know there's some nights i 593 00:51:12,327 --> 00:51:15,047 don't go to sleep till too late to say on the podcast. 594 00:51:15,147 --> 00:51:15,767 And like, 595 00:51:15,807 --> 00:51:16,087 uh, 596 00:51:16,447 --> 00:51:18,767 because I'm just so enamored with all this stuff. 597 00:51:19,307 --> 00:51:21,247 And then there's this permanent underclass meme, 598 00:51:21,307 --> 00:51:21,427 right? 599 00:51:21,467 --> 00:51:21,847 Where everyone, 600 00:51:22,027 --> 00:51:23,547 I think there's some of the people who are, 601 00:51:23,706 --> 00:51:26,867 who are seeing like reading all these things on Twitter and they're kind of 602 00:51:26,867 --> 00:51:27,087 just, 603 00:51:27,166 --> 00:51:27,387 um, 604 00:51:28,107 --> 00:51:28,587 lurking, 605 00:51:28,727 --> 00:51:29,607 but they don't know. 606 00:51:29,686 --> 00:51:31,087 They're kind of like frozen. 607 00:51:31,227 --> 00:51:32,387 They don't know what to do with it all. 608 00:51:32,647 --> 00:51:33,587 And they're scared. 609 00:51:34,287 --> 00:51:34,647 Um, 610 00:51:34,887 --> 00:51:35,186 anyways, 611 00:51:35,186 --> 00:51:36,567 I don't know where we go with that. 612 00:51:36,647 --> 00:51:38,747 I know we could go for a long time, 613 00:51:38,787 --> 00:51:40,087 but I just want to throw all that out there. 614 00:51:40,166 --> 00:51:40,327 Get your thoughts. 615 00:51:40,327 --> 00:51:42,147 I read that article last night. 616 00:51:42,327 --> 00:51:49,027 And when I was reading it, that's one of the first articles I've read in a while that I really had to sit down and think through. 617 00:51:49,447 --> 00:51:51,827 And first reaction is it sounded like a Bitcoiner. 618 00:51:52,267 --> 00:51:54,686 It's like, hey, he's right. 619 00:51:55,027 --> 00:51:55,767 It's when. 620 00:51:56,307 --> 00:51:59,927 And so because Bitcoiners were known for saying, hey, it's going to the moon tomorrow. 621 00:52:00,447 --> 00:52:02,407 You know, you should have put all your money into Bitcoin. 622 00:52:02,567 --> 00:52:03,967 And then it dropped 60 percent. 623 00:52:04,047 --> 00:52:05,107 And you're like, well, it's going to happen. 624 00:52:05,247 --> 00:52:06,027 I know it is. 625 00:52:06,027 --> 00:52:18,867 With this AI thing going down, most people are not acknowledging that as technology advances, prices should go down to Jeff Booth's point. 626 00:52:19,367 --> 00:52:31,027 And so the way I view Bitcoin is it is the first thing in the history of the world that is 100% demand driven because we already know the supply is 21 million. 627 00:52:31,427 --> 00:52:34,666 You cannot increase the supply if the price goes up. 628 00:52:34,666 --> 00:52:46,267 And so with AI, they are going to completely compete against each other in the most advanced tech to where they're going to be driving that price down, down, down, down. 629 00:52:46,367 --> 00:52:47,747 And what are they going to put their money? 630 00:52:47,867 --> 00:52:52,847 They're not going to put their money in anything that's inflationary because they themselves are deflationary. 631 00:52:53,287 --> 00:52:54,646 And so my long-term thesis- 632 00:52:54,646 --> 00:52:56,807 The price down of services and products, right? 633 00:52:56,807 --> 00:53:01,827 Services and products. They get better producing those goods. And being AI, they're going to be 634 00:53:02,427 --> 00:53:10,467 extremely advanced as they grow and code each other and make costs go down. They're not going 635 00:53:10,467 --> 00:53:14,327 to put their money that's inflationary because their prices are going to go down, their profits 636 00:53:14,327 --> 00:53:20,767 are going to go down. And now they're basically combating inflation in a deflationary world. 637 00:53:20,767 --> 00:53:36,047 And so my long-term thesis is AI, AGI, whatever, they're going to be storing their time in a deflationary asset that is not supply driven because you'll just increase the supply exponentially in any other asset or good. 638 00:53:36,186 --> 00:53:38,827 And then the price will go down, but you can't do that in Bitcoin. 639 00:53:39,407 --> 00:53:43,267 And so it kind of perfectly aligns AI and Bitcoin. 640 00:53:43,527 --> 00:53:46,666 You can see that they are aligning perfectly. 641 00:53:46,666 --> 00:53:55,927 You have something that will basically drive progress up, but prices are, I do not think, going up. 642 00:53:56,206 --> 00:54:01,527 I think we're just going to be more productive and prices will be going down in an AI world. 643 00:54:01,867 --> 00:54:09,007 And then people are going to be in trouble when we hit deflation because of the debt they can't service or the income. 644 00:54:09,007 --> 00:54:19,727 And so I think we're heading into a deflationary production with AI, even though prices may, you know, in dollar terms are going up. 645 00:54:19,987 --> 00:54:26,347 But if they're not using dollars anymore, it'd just be like using Venezuelan to the dollar today. 646 00:54:26,347 --> 00:54:31,067 Like those dollars are going up far more than the our dollar. 647 00:54:31,166 --> 00:54:39,646 And I think Bitcoin is going to kind of be the measuring stick of how society's, you know, moving on with AI. 648 00:54:39,947 --> 00:54:42,947 So I kind of ramble a little bit, but you can get it. 649 00:54:42,947 --> 00:54:43,527 No, no, that's good. 650 00:54:44,206 --> 00:54:44,706 Yeah, no. 651 00:54:44,867 --> 00:54:45,127 Okay. 652 00:54:45,127 --> 00:54:48,507 So I got to get back to mining fiat in like three minutes. 653 00:54:48,507 --> 00:54:55,646 And so, Jonathan, I want you to give us, I got to have you give us the hopeful Bitcoiner outlook to end here. 654 00:54:55,646 --> 00:54:58,987 Because we always, you know, we end on a positive note. 655 00:54:59,107 --> 00:55:02,166 And I know people are like, what is, what's going on? 656 00:55:03,007 --> 00:55:11,547 You know, give us your, I don't know, maybe go out one, three years, how many ever you want to go out and describe the future that Bitcoin can afford us. 657 00:55:11,547 --> 00:55:27,987 Yeah. So I think for us individually and businesses, if we start to analyze the world we're in and start to measure based on a more stable unit, there's like true growth and progress happening. 658 00:55:27,987 --> 00:55:31,827 And maybe the world today has not caught on because the price may be down. 659 00:55:31,947 --> 00:55:42,407 But if you're acquiring more hard money or hard assets that are not printable long term, those have proven to outpace monetary expansion. 660 00:55:42,706 --> 00:55:55,467 And I just think it's important to know, like in a world where there's persistent monetary debasement, how we're measuring our progress matters as much as what we're measuring. 661 00:55:55,467 --> 00:56:06,407 And so if you're measuring your progress in a more stable unit like Bitcoin, then I think long term you will be better off in real terms. 662 00:56:06,947 --> 00:56:20,487 That's kind of my my pitch. And I just think more people should study, you know, what money is, why storing money in something that someone can print is not a good long term solution. 663 00:56:20,487 --> 00:56:24,787 when you can store your wealth into a network that you cannot print 664 00:56:24,787 --> 00:56:31,467 and kind of have freedom and the ability to keep your wealth from being diluted. 665 00:56:34,047 --> 00:56:35,887 Yeah, it's beautifully said. 666 00:56:36,007 --> 00:56:39,607 I'll just end to, it's like you can't be idle. 667 00:56:39,947 --> 00:56:41,186 It's like you got to be taking action. 668 00:56:41,186 --> 00:56:43,447 You got to be integrating Bitcoin into your practice. 669 00:56:43,686 --> 00:56:45,567 You got to be integrating AI into your practice. 670 00:56:45,727 --> 00:56:49,706 Like these are two trends like I don't think you want to bet being on the wrong side of. 671 00:56:50,487 --> 00:56:54,407 And then last thing I'll say is new rule of BFFS. 672 00:56:54,507 --> 00:56:56,607 Like you can't go to bed until you hit your rate limit. 673 00:56:59,646 --> 00:57:00,467 So good job. 674 00:57:01,487 --> 00:57:04,127 Yeah, no, no, I'm, uh, that's good. 675 00:57:04,447 --> 00:57:07,747 I, I'm going to have to either bring my Claude plan down. 676 00:57:07,747 --> 00:57:12,146 Cause I, I've hit my rate limit a few times and it's like, all right, just give Anthropic 677 00:57:12,146 --> 00:57:13,007 more money, I guess. 678 00:57:13,567 --> 00:57:16,067 Um, yeah, but okay. 679 00:57:16,327 --> 00:57:20,307 We got to end here, but Jonathan tell people where they can find the article. 680 00:57:20,487 --> 00:57:27,947 Tell people where they can get their, you know, their wealth managed, their taxes prepped, how to find you on all the different platforms. 681 00:57:28,407 --> 00:57:31,947 So our website's orangehorizonwealth.com. 682 00:57:32,047 --> 00:57:35,307 You can find me on Twitter, CampsJonathan. 683 00:57:35,927 --> 00:57:42,727 My article is posted on my Twitter, or you can look it up on Medium Financial Measurement. 684 00:57:43,427 --> 00:57:48,447 It's called The Illusion of Growth Financial Measurement in an Era of Monetary Expansion. 685 00:57:49,287 --> 00:57:49,727 Yeah. 686 00:57:49,727 --> 00:57:51,666 And we'll link it in the show notes. 687 00:57:52,327 --> 00:57:54,686 And it's camps with a K, just so everyone knows. 688 00:57:55,007 --> 00:57:55,327 Camps with a K. 689 00:57:55,347 --> 00:57:56,007 If you're just listening. 690 00:57:56,646 --> 00:57:58,507 So, well, thank you, sir, for coming on. 691 00:57:58,567 --> 00:57:59,047 This is fun. 692 00:57:59,047 --> 00:57:59,347 Yeah, thanks, John. 693 00:57:59,347 --> 00:58:01,347 We could have gone probably for a long time. 694 00:58:02,027 --> 00:58:02,907 Yeah, thank you, guys. 695 00:58:04,186 --> 00:58:05,347 Fan of what you guys are doing. 696 00:58:06,627 --> 00:58:07,267 Appreciate it, man. 697 00:58:07,427 --> 00:58:08,186 All right, we'll talk to you soon. 698 00:58:08,407 --> 00:58:08,567 See ya. 699 00:58:08,587 --> 00:58:09,127 All right, thanks, y'all. 700 00:58:14,686 --> 00:58:16,047 We appreciate you joining us. 701 00:58:16,047 --> 00:58:19,487 If you want to help build a future of Bitcoin financial services, 702 00:58:19,727 --> 00:58:22,567 hit subscribe, leave a review, sign up for a newsletter, 703 00:58:22,847 --> 00:58:24,427 and share this with someone in your network 704 00:58:24,427 --> 00:58:26,087 who's integrating Bitcoin into their practice. 705 00:58:26,607 --> 00:58:28,087 The more professionals we reach, 706 00:58:28,567 --> 00:58:32,166 the better this ecosystem serve and our clients benefit. 707 00:58:32,666 --> 00:58:35,186 Stay sharp, stay sovereign, keep leading from the front. 708 00:58:49,727 --> 00:58:51,787 you