1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,660 One of the key aspects there that we kind of align with is taking a long-term view of how you grow your business. 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:13,780 And I think that nicely fits in with kind of the Bitcoin ethos of low time preference, right? 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:21,020 And it is, how do I build this business to be sustainable and add value to clients in the long term? 4 00:00:21,700 --> 00:00:25,240 We know there's a bunch of things that you can do in the short term to make more money. 5 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,340 But is that really in the interest of your clients? 6 00:00:28,340 --> 00:00:32,160 And I think that aligns nicely with, hey, you know, I'm holding Bitcoin. 7 00:00:32,420 --> 00:00:33,420 I know it's going to be volatile. 8 00:00:34,060 --> 00:00:37,920 But I think long term, it is better for humanity. 9 00:00:38,260 --> 00:00:39,160 It's a better asset. 10 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,260 I want to hold some portion of my wealth in it. 11 00:00:43,260 --> 00:00:45,520 Bitcoin is a currency on the Internet. 12 00:00:45,900 --> 00:00:48,560 If you don't trust any other currency, this is where you go. 13 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:49,820 It's going to outperform everything. 14 00:00:49,980 --> 00:00:51,460 Bitcoin could eventually be worthless. 15 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:53,360 Every day is a good day to buy Bitcoin. 16 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:55,880 Bitcoin reached its highest price to date. 17 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:57,520 Bitcoin hitting a new high. 18 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,360 It really has reached escape velocity. 19 00:00:59,500 --> 00:01:00,480 There is no second best. 20 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:01,780 Who cares about Bitcoin? 21 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,160 It's the only secure database that's ever been invented. 22 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:05,200 Antisocial. 23 00:01:05,460 --> 00:01:07,060 Bitcoin is the real deal. 24 00:01:07,260 --> 00:01:07,660 Stupid. 25 00:01:08,020 --> 00:01:09,940 Everything is bullish for Bitcoin. 26 00:01:10,180 --> 00:01:10,620 Immoral. 27 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,280 It's going up forever, Laura. 28 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:13,660 Fix the money. 29 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:15,020 Fix the world. 30 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,300 and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, 31 00:01:30,420 --> 00:01:32,660 investments, or investment strategies. Investments involve risk and almost otherwise stated or not 32 00:01:32,660 --> 00:01:35,080 guaranteed. Information expressed does not take into account your specific situation or objectives 33 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,600 is not intended as a recommendation appropriate for any individual. Listeners are encouraged to seek 34 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,900 advice from a qualified tax legal or investment advisor to determine whether any information 35 00:01:39,900 --> 00:01:42,200 presented may be suitable for their specific situation. Past performance is not indicative 36 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,240 of future performance. Any statements or opinions are subject to change without notice. 37 00:01:47,660 --> 00:01:51,620 What's up, everyone? Thank you for tuning in. Welcome back to the Bitcoin for Financial Services 38 00:01:51,620 --> 00:01:55,940 Media, the podcast where sound money meets professional services. We explore how to build 39 00:01:55,940 --> 00:02:01,380 financial services industry within the principles ethos and values of bitcoin today we're honored to 40 00:02:01,380 --> 00:02:06,660 be joined by joe wood founder of satoshi patroli let's get started 41 00:02:11,540 --> 00:02:18,180 all righty welcome back y'all we are back with our second episode of the bitcoin for financial 42 00:02:18,180 --> 00:02:23,860 services podcast this is the first episode though where we've got a guest and we uh we have a special 43 00:02:23,860 --> 00:02:29,720 guest today, Joe Wood from Satoshi Pacioli. Joe is the owner and founder of Satoshi Pacioli 44 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:36,940 Accounting Services. And I know Joe well now, but Joe and I actually just met earlier, like 45 00:02:36,940 --> 00:02:42,400 very beginning of this year at Bitcoin Park in Nashville. So we've gotten to know each other 46 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:47,700 well very quickly. And so I'm excited to have him on the show. And we've got Wyatt as well, 47 00:02:47,780 --> 00:02:52,760 who's going to be, I think Wyatt's just here to get free tax advice, if I'm not mistaken. 48 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:54,260 And so that's a hundred percent. 49 00:02:54,380 --> 00:02:54,580 Correct. 50 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:57,840 So Joe, thanks for taking the time. 51 00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:59,500 I know, I know you're a busy man. 52 00:02:59,500 --> 00:03:03,060 We're going into the end of the year and there's lots of work to be done on the tax side. 53 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:04,260 We'll get into all that. 54 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,380 But how's your, uh, how's your Monday or Monday or Tuesday? 55 00:03:07,780 --> 00:03:08,140 How's it going? 56 00:03:09,060 --> 00:03:09,460 Okay. 57 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:10,820 Oh, no, it's Tuesday. 58 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:12,620 No, we're just a day behind. 59 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:13,940 Uh, it's, it's going well. 60 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:15,460 Clearly I'm on top of things. 61 00:03:18,100 --> 00:03:18,500 Yeah. 62 00:03:18,500 --> 00:03:33,560 Yeah. Well, I guess tell us about because you were like the premier Bitcoin accounting firm. Right. And that's why that's why we're having you on, of course, because accounting is one of the main components in this whole well in the whole business cycle. 63 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:47,080 But of course, in an account or with the Bitcoin ecosystem. And so I wanted to just we've got to ask you, like how, you know, were you 2011? Were you class of 2015? How did you get into Bitcoin? Roughly what year? 64 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:53,480 yeah so it's always kind of hard to say exactly when you got in i i would say like i bought my 65 00:03:53,480 --> 00:04:02,080 first bitcoin in like 2014 um and always was interested in from a like philosophical standpoint 66 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:08,300 like hey this would be really cool if this works right um and so it didn't take me very much to 67 00:04:08,300 --> 00:04:13,340 like i heard about it was like oh that sounds like a great idea but it wasn't where i was like 68 00:04:13,340 --> 00:04:19,640 oh i'm gonna like deep dive deep into this learn all the technical stuff um it was always kind of 69 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:24,020 one of those things that was kind of on the side of like hey there's this weird bitcoin thing it 70 00:04:24,020 --> 00:04:29,300 aligned with like what i i think should work in theory but who knows what's actually going to 71 00:04:29,300 --> 00:04:36,640 happen right um and so it was very much more so like a passive following for you know a number of 72 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:44,200 years watch the price go up watch the price go down um which is always fun um and then you know 73 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:49,220 as you know learning a little bit about it over the time but like you know i held bitcoin in 2017 74 00:04:49,220 --> 00:04:56,040 when there was like you know the fork wars and everything um but don't really remember it didn't 75 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:01,120 have a strong opinion on it or anything um so to kind of give you a perspective of kind of how 76 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:09,300 deeply into it I was. And then really, yeah, 2020 came around, started a bunch of podcasts, 77 00:05:09,940 --> 00:05:15,280 took it more seriously. Eventually all your debt worth is a Bitcoin. So this is kind of like the 78 00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:19,640 normal cycle, I guess, but it took me kind of a while to kind of get deeply into it. 79 00:05:22,620 --> 00:05:29,220 Well, and then, so remind me too, because you obviously you're CPA, but you weren't in tax 80 00:05:29,220 --> 00:05:31,640 prior really to getting into Bitcoin, right? 81 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:32,600 You were more, I guess, 82 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,120 were you on the audit side of things prior? 83 00:05:35,780 --> 00:05:37,500 Yeah, so I started on my career in audit. 84 00:05:37,620 --> 00:05:40,020 I did like four years in audit and public accounting. 85 00:05:40,280 --> 00:05:42,140 And then most of my career though, 86 00:05:42,140 --> 00:05:44,560 I spent in accounting departments 87 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,400 for private companies, nonprofits. 88 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,520 So my accounting background really very much 89 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,260 is on the financial reporting side, 90 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,660 the general ledger, making payments, 91 00:05:55,660 --> 00:06:04,680 receiving uh you know receiving uh invoices in um and i always kind of tried to avoid the tax stuff 92 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:10,060 because it's not the most fun thing to do um but it was very much one of those things where 93 00:06:10,060 --> 00:06:15,620 you know i started up the company i was really focused on you know serving that controller role 94 00:06:15,620 --> 00:06:21,400 for from all companies that weren't ready to hire a full-time person and continually were asked like 95 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:27,720 hey like do you do taxes do you do taxes and i was trying to stay away from it but like the what i 96 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:32,260 came to realize is like no one else actually has these answers like they need somebody who 97 00:06:32,260 --> 00:06:38,660 understands bitcoin and i knew enough about taxes to like fill that role for them right 98 00:06:38,660 --> 00:06:44,140 i mean we've evolved a lot since then brought on more expertise um but it really was like 99 00:06:44,140 --> 00:06:49,340 the bitcoin piece was a missing piece for the people that needed the tax support so being able 100 00:06:49,340 --> 00:06:56,100 fill that role for them in an immediate sense well now joe i appreciate that that's that's 101 00:06:56,100 --> 00:07:01,300 fascinating insight and i think you're just like the the perfect first guest to have on this podcast 102 00:07:01,300 --> 00:07:06,900 because we're really trying to help you know the normies and uh the folks working in traditional 103 00:07:06,900 --> 00:07:13,460 your professional services like adopt bitcoin so i think satoshi patroli is the premier 104 00:07:13,460 --> 00:07:19,100 bitcoin accounting firm give us some insight on how you you started the firm how you thought there 105 00:07:19,100 --> 00:07:25,680 was how you evaluated the market and thought there was opportunity to take here yeah i mean 106 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:33,920 i don't know that it was all that uh strategic um it was um my last job was as a controller 107 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:39,080 at a non-profit in dc i got to the point where i was like i don't want to do this i want to do 108 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:45,300 something in bitcoin and so that was really the it came from the fact that i wanted to work in 109 00:07:45,300 --> 00:07:49,940 Bitcoin. I wanted to work with Bitcoiners. And so after thinking about all the different things I 110 00:07:49,940 --> 00:07:53,380 could potentially do, I was like, oh, you have 15 years of account experience. Maybe you should 111 00:07:53,380 --> 00:07:58,860 lean on that a little bit. And so that was really what it kind of came out of there. And then 112 00:07:58,860 --> 00:08:03,900 trying to just bring what I, you know, that traditional finance background, the accounting 113 00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:09,580 knowledge, like knowing that, you know, whether it's a Bitcoin company or anything else, that you 114 00:08:09,580 --> 00:08:15,280 still need that information. Right. And so just being able to apply that to the Bitcoin world, 115 00:08:15,300 --> 00:08:18,360 where it's not overly complicated, right? 116 00:08:18,420 --> 00:08:20,400 Like after you start learning about it, 117 00:08:20,580 --> 00:08:21,940 like accounting for Bitcoin 118 00:08:21,940 --> 00:08:24,080 is not the most complicated thing in the world. 119 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,740 But when you tell somebody who has been doing it 120 00:08:26,740 --> 00:08:28,740 for 15, 20, 30 years, 121 00:08:29,060 --> 00:08:30,740 hey, learn about this new thing, 122 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:32,300 they're probably gonna be like, 123 00:08:32,380 --> 00:08:33,560 no, I don't want to, right? 124 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,580 And so that was probably the biggest difference 125 00:08:35,580 --> 00:08:37,880 for me starting the firm 126 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,520 versus your CPAs that could have done it, 127 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,360 but just had no real incentive 128 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,820 or, yeah, no real desire to. 129 00:08:48,500 --> 00:08:52,320 Well, and so far, I've only heard you talk about one cryptocurrency. 130 00:08:52,580 --> 00:08:53,780 I've heard you talk about Bitcoin. 131 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,760 And I run into a lot of, I run into not a lot, 132 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,480 but some CPAs that are more crypto CPAs. 133 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,840 So I assume maybe you had a bit of a shitcoin phase. 134 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,040 I think maybe he's telling some of that story, if that exists, 135 00:09:10,560 --> 00:09:11,540 if you want to share. 136 00:09:11,540 --> 00:09:16,320 might be helpful to some other advisors who are kind of starting to dip their toe into the water. 137 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:26,260 But then also, once you answer that, if you could also kind of touch on why did you go Bitcoin only with your firm? 138 00:09:26,260 --> 00:09:32,480 And from the outside looking in, someone might be like, well, aren't you kind of hampering your growth 139 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:40,600 because you could be servicing this broad industry, but you took this route of going extremely niche. 140 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:45,300 And of course, it's worked out very well for you. So maybe you could touch on that for the audience as well. 141 00:09:46,440 --> 00:10:07,280 Yeah, I mean, I think I certainly had the shitcoin phase where it was, hey, but it was as I was learning about Bitcoin. Right. And it was like, hey, I'm going to learn about this thing. And then you had Bitcoin for a little while. And then it was like, oh, there's this Ethereum thing. And I don't really understand it at all, but it's going up. Maybe I should buy some. Right. 142 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:15,280 and so it really for me it was once I started to understand Bitcoin better I at least realized I 143 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:20,580 didn't understand any of the other crypto at all right and so I was like all right I got to this 144 00:10:20,580 --> 00:10:26,880 point with Bitcoin maybe I should just focus on that and so I remember when I sold the all the 145 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:33,740 Ethereum I had it was hey I'm gonna like understand this one thing well and I'm not gonna own things 146 00:10:33,740 --> 00:10:37,580 I don't understand whether it's from a technology or an asset standpoint. 147 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,200 And so for me, that was kind of the path. 148 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,600 And so I try not to be too judgmental of people that are like, 149 00:10:44,060 --> 00:10:45,460 hey, everyone have all these different tokens. 150 00:10:45,700 --> 00:10:48,500 I think there's probably a natural path there. 151 00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:52,120 But for me, if you understand Bitcoin, 152 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:58,580 you understand why everything else doesn't really matter in the long term. 153 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:01,800 And so that's kind of the way I view it. 154 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:18,080 And then just from the, purely from the business side of things, I think for me at least, like, I couldn't, I don't think you can potentially, I don't think you can really fully understand all the different crypto. 155 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:28,800 I always kind of find it weird of like if Solana or Ethereum or XRP, like I assume they all work very differently. 156 00:11:29,060 --> 00:11:36,240 I know they're all on blockchains, but if you actually want to understand the technology, like you probably have to go down a bunch of different rabbit holes. 157 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:43,720 And so it's like Bitcoin is complicated enough that maybe you should focus on that one thing and know that well. 158 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:51,020 if you're trying to understand 10 20 30 different cryptos if if you just want to do like the tax 159 00:11:51,020 --> 00:11:55,800 cost basis reporting that's probably fine but if you actually want to advise people and be an expert 160 00:11:55,800 --> 00:12:01,500 in it and get grain gain a really good understanding of it you probably have to focus on one and you 161 00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:09,200 what you don't see is oh i'm an ethereum accountant or i'm a xrp accountant um because like obviously 162 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:13,640 that's not where you're going to like grow a business on it. Right. So you just put everything 163 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,980 in the crypto bucket and you're like, oh, I know more about this than everybody else. Right. 164 00:12:18,140 --> 00:12:25,560 Which is maybe not the greatest place to start with. Yeah, that's such a good point. The first 165 00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:33,140 XRP account and I see I'm going to quit and I'm just going to exit stage left done. I think you're 166 00:12:33,140 --> 00:12:38,020 totally right. You know, one of my favorite sayings in Bitcoin is Bitcoin works like how 167 00:12:38,020 --> 00:12:43,040 your grandma thinks money actually works and it's like yes it is complicated there's a lot of nuance 168 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:49,100 to it but if you focus on it's like it's actually you know somewhat somewhat simple to grok uh it's 169 00:12:49,100 --> 00:12:54,740 really not as complex i think we can actually do ourselves a disservice by you know making it like 170 00:12:54,740 --> 00:12:59,940 this super you know complex system you just takes homework like anything else but in that that 171 00:12:59,940 --> 00:13:07,120 journey joe were you ever pressured by any mentors or you know friends whatever it may be to 172 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:13,740 really kind of embrace cryptocurrency at large or were you just like from the beginning i'm bitcoin 173 00:13:13,740 --> 00:13:20,400 only i'm planting my flag um yeah i think probably most people just thought it was a terrible idea 174 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:25,600 general of just focusing on the county firm on just bitcoin even if it's bitcoin in in crypto 175 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:34,140 um so yeah no one no one specifically was like oh you should do all crypto um but i i mean there 176 00:13:34,140 --> 00:13:35,960 there is a line there where it's like, 177 00:13:36,260 --> 00:13:38,100 hey, where do you actually draw the line, right? 178 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,260 And it's not like, hey, if you hold any other assets, 179 00:13:41,300 --> 00:13:42,660 we're not going to do your tax return. 180 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,180 Or if it's like, hey, you sold some, you know, 181 00:13:46,260 --> 00:13:47,860 assets this year to convert into Bitcoin. 182 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,060 Oh, we're not going to do your tax return, right? 183 00:13:50,340 --> 00:13:53,060 It is more so a, hey, here's where our interest 184 00:13:53,060 --> 00:13:54,680 and here's where our expertise lies. 185 00:13:55,420 --> 00:13:57,720 And whether we're a good fit for you or not 186 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,660 is more on the client side. 187 00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:02,380 But if you want someone, an expert 188 00:14:02,380 --> 00:14:03,680 in all these different areas, 189 00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:05,460 we're probably not the right fit for it. 190 00:14:08,820 --> 00:14:10,940 Your wealth deserves intention. 191 00:14:11,380 --> 00:14:14,000 Basilic Financial is a Bitcoin-focused wealth management firm 192 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,820 built to help our clients find balance between money and meaning. 193 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,560 We integrate sound money strategies across four distinct personalized services. 194 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,920 Financial planning, individual wealth management, 195 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,460 retirement services for SMBs, and Bitcoin financial services. 196 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:31,000 Your prosperity, your purpose, intentionally guided at Basilic Financial. 197 00:14:31,420 --> 00:14:34,780 Visit our website at basilic.io to schedule free consultation. 198 00:14:37,180 --> 00:14:38,040 Totally, totally. 199 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,920 Well, and that's what I think is kind of unique about, you know, services businesses. 200 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,780 I think it's really more the venture-backed, you know, businesses, you know, 201 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,280 whether that's, you know, whatever type of exchange or product 202 00:14:47,280 --> 00:15:01,531 that really get a lot of pressure you know from VCs to you know adopt other cryptocurrencies and clearly I morally opposed to that So I do think it an interesting segment of financial services generally not venture 203 00:15:01,531 --> 00:15:06,711 back or scalable businesses, where you really do have a lot more flexibility to just embrace 204 00:15:06,711 --> 00:15:10,151 what you believe in and you can really kind of lead the noise out. 205 00:15:10,251 --> 00:15:11,491 So I appreciate the insight on that. 206 00:15:11,491 --> 00:15:19,111 well joe could you also tell us a little bit about the satoshi paccioli uh token offering 207 00:15:19,111 --> 00:15:23,531 you guys are launching a token later this year yeah that's i think the big announcement for this 208 00:15:23,531 --> 00:15:32,951 podcast yeah we don't have a price yet but yeah uh only 21 billion for now for now and then we'll 209 00:15:32,951 --> 00:15:38,371 see um no i'm just kidding i one thing that came to mind as you guys were just talking was 210 00:15:38,371 --> 00:15:45,911 so the the bitcoin industry has had to do a lot of growing up you know really even in the last five 211 00:15:45,911 --> 00:15:54,011 years right and i'd just be curious you've had this you know keen insight to see bitcoin businesses 212 00:15:54,011 --> 00:15:59,251 from all the way from startup to you know more established businesses that are just owned by 213 00:15:59,251 --> 00:16:03,831 bitcoiners and so they either have it on their you know balance sheet or they just distribute 214 00:16:03,831 --> 00:16:07,711 the profits out and they buy the Bitcoin personally. But I would just be curious, 215 00:16:07,831 --> 00:16:13,711 like you've played this crucial role actually of, of helping a lot of, you know, and all founders 216 00:16:13,711 --> 00:16:20,031 are bootstrapped kind of like scrappy guys or gals, but you, you've helped people who have 217 00:16:20,031 --> 00:16:26,071 come into wealth that they probably didn't expect to come into. I'd just be curious, like how you, 218 00:16:26,251 --> 00:16:31,791 how you see the role you've played in helping the asset class actually grow up a bit and come into 219 00:16:31,791 --> 00:16:39,531 more of the mainstream yeah um i mean we yeah we have a wide variety of clients there and so 220 00:16:39,531 --> 00:16:48,731 it's everybody from hey i've been in bitcoin for 10 plus years and i need someone who understands 221 00:16:48,731 --> 00:16:56,451 it to you know help me with my tax accounting whatever it is um to the hey i just you know 222 00:16:56,451 --> 00:17:05,171 just got in last year and you know maybe older older clients um and they have you know cynically 223 00:17:05,171 --> 00:17:09,651 more wealth that they built up and so they're putting a cynically amount of money in but they're 224 00:17:09,651 --> 00:17:18,591 relatively new to bitcoin and so our role has really kind of evolved there from a hey i used 225 00:17:18,591 --> 00:17:23,951 to always tell people like i know a lot less about bitcoin than my clients do right because they are 226 00:17:23,951 --> 00:17:27,951 building businesses in the space, you know, building infrastructure, wallets, whatever 227 00:17:27,951 --> 00:17:28,631 it is. 228 00:17:28,931 --> 00:17:29,771 They're the experts. 229 00:17:29,891 --> 00:17:31,091 I'm trying to learn from them. 230 00:17:31,591 --> 00:17:38,091 And then now we have more and more as you have the ETFs and just more Wall Street getting 231 00:17:38,091 --> 00:17:38,471 in. 232 00:17:38,471 --> 00:17:43,391 It is more new people that are getting exposed to as an asset. 233 00:17:43,691 --> 00:17:48,811 And so they are coming to us more so as like a guide, advisory. 234 00:17:49,411 --> 00:17:53,291 And so that role has kind of evolved over these four years here. 235 00:17:53,291 --> 00:18:16,391 And yeah, not something I probably anticipated. I really was getting into it of, hey, I'm going to bring my accounting expertise to the Bitcoin space. And that being in the Bitcoin space and learning about it, going to BitDevs more regularly, like understanding it more, we're able to be a more valuable advisor to the people that have come in the last couple of years, which has been interesting to see. 236 00:18:16,391 --> 00:18:25,591 yeah well that all makes sense i mean it's it's definitely it is interesting when you're talking 237 00:18:25,591 --> 00:18:30,051 to someone who's like on the development side right like something that comes to mind for me 238 00:18:30,051 --> 00:18:35,011 and we can actually maybe pivot a little bit into some of the just nuances especially on the 239 00:18:35,011 --> 00:18:40,351 accounting side since i know that's kind of where you uh mostly live at this point on in the firm 240 00:18:40,351 --> 00:18:45,131 talk us through of course there's the whole cost basis there's bitcoin treated as property 241 00:18:45,131 --> 00:18:53,311 but maybe specifically like how are you thinking about different data sources that are harder to 242 00:18:53,311 --> 00:19:00,411 to track like I'm thinking specifically about lightning and how difficult it really is to track 243 00:19:00,411 --> 00:19:07,691 these micro payments do we have I guess and I know you guys have done a lot of work with you know with 244 00:19:07,691 --> 00:19:13,551 spreadsheets and but I guess just talk us through for an advisor who's not fully you know ingrained 245 00:19:13,551 --> 00:19:14,671 and how all this works. 246 00:19:15,171 --> 00:19:17,611 What does it look like from when you started the firm 247 00:19:17,611 --> 00:19:19,211 dealing with all of that stuff 248 00:19:19,211 --> 00:19:22,151 to where Lightning sits now within the business? 249 00:19:22,911 --> 00:19:25,691 Yeah, I mean, that certainly has changed quite a bit as well. 250 00:19:26,651 --> 00:19:29,251 Yeah, Bitcoin in some ways is very transparent. 251 00:19:29,571 --> 00:19:30,411 You have a blockchain. 252 00:19:31,311 --> 00:19:33,511 You know, if you want to go through and read the blockchain, 253 00:19:33,751 --> 00:19:35,451 you can see all the detail there. 254 00:19:35,451 --> 00:19:38,171 And if you have very little insight into what it's for, right? 255 00:19:38,251 --> 00:19:40,031 Like it's all in there and transparent. 256 00:19:40,191 --> 00:19:41,311 You can get back to it. 257 00:19:41,311 --> 00:19:48,791 lightning is kind of the exact opposite of that right um where even like the the service provider 258 00:19:48,791 --> 00:19:54,431 that you're working with like the exports that you get um the information there is just it's 259 00:19:54,431 --> 00:20:00,811 harder to track and if you're not doing it in real time going back and getting it is still very 260 00:20:00,811 --> 00:20:10,811 difficult um so i there are there's a wide variety of like um ways you can do that some 261 00:20:10,811 --> 00:20:19,511 are more built out than others um depending on yeah like if you're if you're using a you know a 262 00:20:19,511 --> 00:20:25,131 voltage or something like that you have a little bit more support versus if you're running your own 263 00:20:25,131 --> 00:20:30,291 node at home and you have to track all that yourself right um and so there there's a wide 264 00:20:30,291 --> 00:20:38,391 variety there and there's different lightning setups right um so all that to say like it is 265 00:20:38,391 --> 00:20:44,851 one of those things that we tell people to start of like if you can set up your accounting side of 266 00:20:44,851 --> 00:20:51,091 it if you can you can track your transactions really before you start and you have that set 267 00:20:51,091 --> 00:20:57,411 up you're going to be a much better place if we have to go back a year even six months and get all 268 00:20:57,411 --> 00:21:04,451 the transactions um it's all there it's all possible to get to but it's a lot harder to do 269 00:21:04,451 --> 00:21:10,031 after the fast if then you're proactive and maybe you set up something like bitment where you have 270 00:21:10,031 --> 00:21:15,251 it plugged in from day one um i know you guys are working on getting the lightning side set up but 271 00:21:15,251 --> 00:21:22,971 um like tools like that are critical so that we don't have to have these conversations with our 272 00:21:22,971 --> 00:21:27,291 client when they're you know when you're having the conversation on hey you should accept bitcoin 273 00:21:27,291 --> 00:21:33,031 for payment um it was like oh how do i do that and like there are custodial ways to do it right 274 00:21:33,031 --> 00:21:44,891 But if you want them to handle it themselves, getting the tools good enough so that you come to the end of the year and it's not a bit of a black hole is a huge, huge gap to get through. 275 00:21:47,851 --> 00:21:49,531 Go ahead, Jordan. You show Bitment. 276 00:21:52,811 --> 00:21:56,251 I'm just learning about Bitment, so I'll have to look into that tool. 277 00:21:56,391 --> 00:21:58,431 But thanks for shouting that out, Joe. 278 00:21:58,431 --> 00:22:06,651 well it's such a an interesting point joe because as you were describing that i was like 279 00:22:06,651 --> 00:22:12,571 ah shit looks like my bookkeeper is gonna have to go back and do some work because i didn't set up 280 00:22:12,571 --> 00:22:17,131 the proper infrastructure so would you kind of have any kind of you know generalized advice you 281 00:22:17,131 --> 00:22:22,751 know for folks that are you know interested in you accepting bitcoin you're paying vendors in 282 00:22:22,751 --> 00:22:27,271 bitcoin like what are what are some easy things to do off the jump to make sure we don't have kind 283 00:22:27,271 --> 00:22:34,651 of this you know rat sense we have to untangle yeah i mean just i mean personally like for our 284 00:22:34,651 --> 00:22:39,991 firm we accept bitcoin and we run everything through zap right so zap right's essentially 285 00:22:39,991 --> 00:22:45,271 an invoicing well more than an invoicing platform now but we use it for invoicing so we send out 286 00:22:45,271 --> 00:22:50,971 payment invoice requests to our clients and it has an option on there to pay in bitcoin 287 00:22:50,971 --> 00:22:59,991 lightning credit card ach um and so for us that's really nice in that we have the record of how much 288 00:22:59,991 --> 00:23:04,471 bitcoin we received at the time and so that we can always go kind of go back to that as our source 289 00:23:04,471 --> 00:23:10,351 of truth right so you know regardless of where it's going whether it's going into a self-custodial 290 00:23:10,351 --> 00:23:17,851 wallet into a you know a river or strike account into a lightning node like in zap right it all 291 00:23:17,851 --> 00:23:23,131 looks the same and I can all get to those records. So tools like that are really valuable. 292 00:23:24,431 --> 00:23:29,631 Square now has it built into their point of sale. I haven't seen their reporting on it. I'm assuming 293 00:23:29,631 --> 00:23:33,771 that it's really good. Hopefully it's really good. And most of those people are going to convert to 294 00:23:33,771 --> 00:23:39,891 dollars right away as well. So from that standpoint, the Bitcoin tracking becomes less important. But 295 00:23:39,891 --> 00:23:47,411 I think it really will become like, it has to be built into the product up front versus having to 296 00:23:47,411 --> 00:23:51,391 go back and do the accounting later. I think that's kind of the key and critical things 297 00:23:51,391 --> 00:24:00,151 as we try to build this out. If we actually want people to use Bitcoin as a payment mechanism, 298 00:24:00,851 --> 00:24:04,011 you have to build the accounting kind of seamlessly into it. 299 00:24:06,111 --> 00:24:11,491 Totally. Well, I want you to double click on that a little bit more because from my seat, 300 00:24:11,491 --> 00:24:25,271 I think it's my job as an advisor is getting more robust and in some ways easier because there's other entrepreneurs in the space that are developing Bitcoin-based financial products that I can help my clients with. 301 00:24:25,271 --> 00:24:34,731 So since you started Apacheoli, kind of walk us through on what is the tool development been that you've been able to kind of tap into? 302 00:24:35,011 --> 00:24:38,371 How is that making your job easier, et cetera? 303 00:24:38,371 --> 00:24:46,151 yeah i mean yeah there's been a lot out there i think i mentioned zap right as far as the invoice 304 00:24:46,151 --> 00:24:52,531 and that makes that side really easy um one of the things that we use i don't even know that 305 00:24:52,531 --> 00:25:00,331 it's advisable for all clients but we use uh like the strike bill pay as well um for businesses so 306 00:25:00,331 --> 00:25:06,051 for us we keep our treasury in bitcoin and so as people are paying us we're rolling into bitcoin 307 00:25:06,051 --> 00:25:07,411 or they're paying us a Bitcoin. 308 00:25:07,671 --> 00:25:11,791 And so our balance sheet essentially looks like Bitcoin. 309 00:25:12,031 --> 00:25:15,071 And then when we're paying payroll, it comes out 310 00:25:15,071 --> 00:25:21,771 and the payroll processor hits the strike account, right? 311 00:25:21,851 --> 00:25:23,591 And Bitcoin comes out of it, right? 312 00:25:24,031 --> 00:25:27,691 And so that is a custodial solution, right? 313 00:25:27,691 --> 00:25:29,831 So it's not perfect as far as like, 314 00:25:29,991 --> 00:25:31,291 hey, you're trusting the custodian, 315 00:25:31,411 --> 00:25:33,631 but from just an ease of process, 316 00:25:33,751 --> 00:25:35,611 if you want to live on Bitcoin 317 00:25:35,611 --> 00:25:37,571 and you want Bitcoin to be your base currency, 318 00:25:37,571 --> 00:25:40,431 you can do that now with the bill pay, right? 319 00:25:41,211 --> 00:25:43,311 It does not make your account it easier. 320 00:25:43,611 --> 00:25:46,331 Every time you do that, you have a gain or loss, 321 00:25:46,691 --> 00:25:49,531 which again goes into you have to build that in 322 00:25:49,531 --> 00:25:53,171 on the back end of like, hey, you're buying it here. 323 00:25:53,271 --> 00:25:54,931 We know how much you paid for it. 324 00:25:55,391 --> 00:25:56,951 Every time you have a transaction, 325 00:25:57,091 --> 00:25:58,811 we're recording a quarter of that gain or loss. 326 00:25:58,951 --> 00:26:00,971 If that's built into the exchanges, 327 00:26:00,971 --> 00:26:07,991 the headache on the consumer side is so much easier to take care of i know river's done really 328 00:26:07,991 --> 00:26:14,071 well with that for a while where they'll have pdf statements on a monthly basis that tell you 329 00:26:14,071 --> 00:26:18,931 here's how much bitcoin you have here's the realized gain here's the unrealized gain 330 00:26:18,931 --> 00:26:24,791 and then like from my standpoint we check that but it's really nice to have something you just go to 331 00:26:24,791 --> 00:26:30,891 and actually have that already at least as a starting point when you're doing that calculation 332 00:26:30,891 --> 00:26:39,611 so yeah i mean we use strike i think river has great yeah statements great uh proof of reserves 333 00:26:39,611 --> 00:26:47,911 there now as well especially after you know 2021 with all the ftx stuff um having a business hold 334 00:26:47,911 --> 00:26:51,911 bitcoin it's one of those things where you really want to be you know if they're going to do 335 00:26:51,911 --> 00:26:57,731 custodially you want to have some like some support that they actually hold in the bitcoin that 336 00:26:57,731 --> 00:27:05,191 they say they are. So, I mean, there's probably a million more things that I'm not thinking about 337 00:27:05,191 --> 00:27:13,591 right now, but just the where the industry is today versus four years ago. Yeah, I think just 338 00:27:13,591 --> 00:27:19,971 light years ahead and the tools are light years ahead. Lightning is light years ahead, right? 339 00:27:19,971 --> 00:27:29,291 so not perfect by any means still probably a long ways to go there a lot on the privacy side where 340 00:27:29,291 --> 00:27:35,291 we probably have a lot of work to do but yeah like unfortunately like a lot of the companies 341 00:27:35,291 --> 00:27:41,191 that we got we've gotten to work with kind of have have led the charge there but if you're 342 00:27:41,191 --> 00:27:47,011 getting into bitcoin today and the tools and resources that are out there are just drastically 343 00:27:47,011 --> 00:27:51,551 different than they were four years ago, but definitely five, six, seven years ago. 344 00:27:54,951 --> 00:28:00,111 If you're a financial professional working with Bitcoin, you know the pain of messy CSVs, 345 00:28:00,291 --> 00:28:06,011 broken cost basis, and accounting tools that were never built for this asset. Bitment fixes that. 346 00:28:06,471 --> 00:28:11,631 Bitment is the Bitcoin native accounting platform built for CPAs, bookkeepers, advisors, 347 00:28:11,631 --> 00:28:18,251 miners and serious bitcoin investors you get clean bitcoin bank statements reliable cost basis 348 00:28:18,251 --> 00:28:23,951 tracking full reporting and fiat integration through plaid no crypto talk no workarounds 349 00:28:23,951 --> 00:28:28,911 just proper accounting for the hardest money on earth create a free account or book a demo at 350 00:28:28,911 --> 00:28:35,771 bitment.co today i would say that's that's amazing um i really appreciate you sharing that because 351 00:28:35,771 --> 00:28:40,611 like one i think that's very you know encouraging for for people that may be intimidated and 352 00:28:40,611 --> 00:28:44,911 accepting Bitcoin. I mean, they're, they're treasuring Bitcoin. It's like the, the tool 353 00:28:44,911 --> 00:28:49,951 set is getting very robust, but also encouraging and exciting too, that there's still plenty of 354 00:28:49,951 --> 00:28:57,271 opportunities to, to build. Yeah. I was going to have you actually zoom in on the, uh, on the 355 00:28:57,271 --> 00:29:02,771 privacy component. I know like, obviously Bitcoiners are, you know, very particular bunch, 356 00:29:02,771 --> 00:29:08,691 right. And, um, and you're handling a lot of, uh, you know, sensitive information. I mean, 357 00:29:08,691 --> 00:29:14,171 that's just the nature of tax and accounting in general, but then even more so potentially on, 358 00:29:14,271 --> 00:29:19,951 on how we're, how do we even actually get some of this data from the client, right? Maybe we're 359 00:29:19,951 --> 00:29:26,831 having to ping their, their X pub. And, and then the other piece is like when you're paying out 360 00:29:26,831 --> 00:29:31,871 Bitcoin, if you don't do it right, are you exposing your balance to, you know, a counterparty, 361 00:29:31,871 --> 00:29:37,071 if you're just doing everything on chain? So maybe, maybe talk through just how you all approach 362 00:29:37,071 --> 00:29:51,542 privacy within the firm in general and then how you seeing some of these tools that are built out to actually just generally make Bitcoin more private than it inherently is Yeah Yeah so always trade there 363 00:29:51,542 --> 00:30:02,082 I think for us, the privacy broadly comes from, you know, one of the other sides of using custodial services is that, you know, 364 00:30:02,142 --> 00:30:04,322 the custodian is the one actually making the payments. 365 00:30:04,622 --> 00:30:09,062 And so it's not going to a multi-sig or a single-sig where we're holding the keys. 366 00:30:09,062 --> 00:30:29,902 And, you know, if we wanted to pay all our employees out of our Bitcoin single SIG wallet, like you could kind of see how much we were holding in there. Right. It's not a great solution. But I think Lightning itself is a great option there. Right. Where, you know, payments on Lightning are more private. 367 00:30:29,902 --> 00:30:35,222 and then I know just on the more technical side, 368 00:30:36,022 --> 00:30:39,022 you know, PayJoin has been one of those things 369 00:30:39,022 --> 00:30:41,642 that has been developed relatively recently 370 00:30:41,642 --> 00:30:43,622 that has a lot of potential there 371 00:30:43,622 --> 00:30:46,202 where it still needs to gain adoption, traction, 372 00:30:46,442 --> 00:30:47,922 and actually get people to use it. 373 00:30:48,282 --> 00:30:53,282 But there are more ways that Bitcoin can be private. 374 00:30:53,282 --> 00:30:55,682 I think it's honestly one of those things 375 00:30:55,682 --> 00:31:03,282 where it is more of a do people actually want it and do they care versus are the tools available 376 00:31:03,282 --> 00:31:08,902 and out there um there are probably more better there's probably tools out there that are 377 00:31:08,902 --> 00:31:16,702 underutilized because there isn't actually as much of a focus on there we have a we have a select 378 00:31:16,702 --> 00:31:22,862 view and like we see kind of maybe some of the more hardcore people that care about the privacy 379 00:31:22,862 --> 00:31:30,042 but it's probably not up there as much for even most of our client base right um so like we've 380 00:31:30,042 --> 00:31:36,762 we've made that a point of emphasis for our clients for for our operations so like we'll 381 00:31:36,762 --> 00:31:46,162 use proton mail for our our um our mail service we have encrypted storage for receiving documents 382 00:31:46,162 --> 00:31:53,962 for clients we do that because we care about you know safeguarding and making sure that we don't 383 00:31:53,962 --> 00:32:03,022 leak our customers um information but i think the reality is if we if we change from that 95 384 00:32:03,022 --> 00:32:09,642 of our clients probably don't care right and so it is very much the minority that we are trying to 385 00:32:09,642 --> 00:32:16,142 make sure that we satisfy but then also like dragging some people along there right where 386 00:32:16,142 --> 00:32:21,262 it's like actually there are really good reasons to care about this this is not just privacy for 387 00:32:21,262 --> 00:32:28,022 the sake of like keeping all your information um you know secret so you can do tax fraud is 388 00:32:28,022 --> 00:32:33,382 hey you don't need to expose your data to people if they don't need it right and so 389 00:32:33,382 --> 00:32:40,602 some of that's education um but i i think there are there are probably more i don't think tools 390 00:32:40,602 --> 00:32:41,802 are the issue at this point. 391 00:32:42,042 --> 00:32:44,962 I think it is, you know, 392 00:32:45,002 --> 00:32:46,902 the average Bitcoiners willingness 393 00:32:46,902 --> 00:32:50,982 or sense of ERV's HC to use them, I would say. 394 00:32:53,742 --> 00:32:56,662 Yeah, I'm happy you brought that up, Joe, 395 00:32:56,762 --> 00:32:58,362 because that's something I really am curious 396 00:32:58,362 --> 00:33:00,742 in getting your input on, 397 00:33:00,822 --> 00:33:01,802 because something, you know, 398 00:33:01,802 --> 00:33:02,802 Jordan and I want to do with this 399 00:33:02,802 --> 00:33:04,402 is helping normies 400 00:33:04,402 --> 00:33:06,522 or traditional financial service providers 401 00:33:06,522 --> 00:33:08,962 really kind of understand the language of Bitcoin 402 00:33:08,962 --> 00:33:10,462 and working with Bitcoiners 403 00:33:10,462 --> 00:33:12,882 and Bitcoiners are a unique bunch. 404 00:33:13,022 --> 00:33:16,782 And I think the encryption, Proton are great examples 405 00:33:16,782 --> 00:33:20,422 of kind of going above and beyond to service Bitcoiners 406 00:33:20,422 --> 00:33:22,582 or provide what they want to see. 407 00:33:22,842 --> 00:33:24,602 So over the course of running your business, 408 00:33:24,682 --> 00:33:27,282 how have you been intentional about kind of serving 409 00:33:27,282 --> 00:33:29,622 the psyche and ethos of Bitcoiners? 410 00:33:30,762 --> 00:33:31,002 Yeah. 411 00:33:31,582 --> 00:33:34,082 Yeah, I mean, another example there is like, 412 00:33:34,442 --> 00:33:38,162 we will use like Maple AI for like our AI stuff 413 00:33:38,162 --> 00:33:45,782 of like we want to stay on top of the most recent like progressions we want to use technology in the 414 00:33:45,782 --> 00:33:53,382 to you know make our firm you know more efficient keep our prices down like be able to do all that 415 00:33:53,382 --> 00:33:59,802 but doing a private privacy preserving way so i think it really has been like staying up to 416 00:33:59,802 --> 00:34:05,782 to date on the most recent trends what's available out there and there are people on our team that 417 00:34:05,782 --> 00:34:12,622 know this stuff a lot better than I do we kind of can lean on as far as hey what's going on um 418 00:34:12,622 --> 00:34:18,222 and so it really has been a what are the tools out there and what are the trade-offs that we're 419 00:34:18,222 --> 00:34:25,402 making we we try not to do things just for the sake of like hey this is the most private way to 420 00:34:25,402 --> 00:34:29,722 do it this is going to give us the most like brownie points for you know the most hardcore 421 00:34:29,722 --> 00:34:35,922 our privacy people we try to make it actually like a tangible trade-off where it's like 422 00:34:35,922 --> 00:34:41,342 all right we use ProtonMail there are some things that don't work as well with ProtonMail but 423 00:34:41,342 --> 00:34:47,502 overall we feel better about using that than running it to like something like Google or Gmail 424 00:34:47,502 --> 00:34:53,562 where we know all that information is going to get exposed maybe not broadly but to Google at least 425 00:34:53,562 --> 00:34:58,662 right and every one of those decisions is hard though there's not one thing where it's like 426 00:34:58,662 --> 00:35:07,102 we're always doing the most private thing it is is the privacy trade-off work whatever whatever 427 00:35:07,102 --> 00:35:14,282 other vantage it at it is out there and i think as those tools get built out though ideally there's 428 00:35:14,282 --> 00:35:20,502 more less and less trade-off to make um to save that privacy but it's always going to be a battle 429 00:35:20,502 --> 00:35:25,542 of like what are you giving up what are other firms able to do that we're not able to do 430 00:35:25,542 --> 00:35:29,182 because maybe it's not as open or not as integrated. 431 00:35:29,522 --> 00:35:31,762 So that's been a constant battle for us. 432 00:35:34,942 --> 00:35:36,482 Yeah, no, that makes sense. 433 00:35:36,942 --> 00:35:40,262 I wanted to potentially pivot a little bit 434 00:35:40,262 --> 00:35:44,362 because part of this whole show is about educating, 435 00:35:44,722 --> 00:35:48,062 like what I just said about just what Bitcoin is. 436 00:35:48,282 --> 00:35:49,762 One of the things that struck me 437 00:35:49,762 --> 00:35:52,862 when I got into my Bitcoin podcast journey 438 00:35:52,862 --> 00:35:57,202 was I heard a gentleman on the What Bitcoin Did podcast, 439 00:35:57,342 --> 00:35:59,622 I'm going to blank on his name, maybe I'll think of it, 440 00:35:59,982 --> 00:36:03,342 but he spoke about Bitcoin, the network. 441 00:36:03,922 --> 00:36:06,642 And obviously there's Bitcoin, the asset. 442 00:36:06,882 --> 00:36:09,082 That's what people generally mean 443 00:36:09,082 --> 00:36:10,302 when they talk about Bitcoin. 444 00:36:10,662 --> 00:36:12,342 But then there's Bitcoin, the network. 445 00:36:12,682 --> 00:36:15,842 And Joe, I think you just have such a unique position 446 00:36:15,842 --> 00:36:19,482 being that you are the accounting guy in Bitcoin. 447 00:36:19,482 --> 00:36:26,702 talk to us about what bitcoin the network is how does it like how is it a ledger and how do we 448 00:36:26,702 --> 00:36:32,142 actually all keep the ledger and make sure that there's no devil spend no um no funny business or 449 00:36:32,142 --> 00:36:38,502 anything like that yeah this is one of those things where i think because of the the nature 450 00:36:38,502 --> 00:36:44,022 of bitcoin i would i would expect more accounts to get it earlier uh which is a little bit 451 00:36:44,022 --> 00:36:49,762 disappointing uh but yeah like i and i don't know i don't know this was one of the initial like 452 00:36:49,762 --> 00:36:54,162 draws to it but like it always made sense to me right i'm like when we talk about the network 453 00:36:54,162 --> 00:37:00,862 we're talking about essentially all the transactions historically on bitcoin are all view 454 00:37:00,862 --> 00:37:10,102 viewable on a ledger um all transparent right um and you can go i i mean i remember when i first 455 00:37:10,102 --> 00:37:15,702 you know loaded up ran my own node and seeing like the blocks fill right and like having the 456 00:37:15,702 --> 00:37:21,742 full data to go back to um i i mean i could be wrong about this but i don't know that it really 457 00:37:21,742 --> 00:37:28,282 exists in any way with anything else out there um and so like having a historical ledger there 458 00:37:28,282 --> 00:37:36,722 where you're able to see all those transactions um for what 16 years now um it's kind of an 459 00:37:36,722 --> 00:37:42,882 amazing thing just on itself um and that obviously a little bit of a tangent but that led a lot of 460 00:37:42,882 --> 00:37:47,862 people in the kind of the earlier years and probably even still in a day of like oh this is 461 00:37:47,862 --> 00:37:52,302 awesome what else can we do with this blockchain i want to put everything on the blockchain right 462 00:37:52,302 --> 00:37:57,882 um it was like all right maybe that wasn't really the solution but for money right where it's like 463 00:37:57,882 --> 00:38:03,182 i want to have a clear transparent ledger of all the the transactions that's happened 464 00:38:03,182 --> 00:38:10,282 And, you know, throughout the globe or at least right now, whoever's using Bitcoin, it's kind of an amazing thing from an accounting standpoint. 465 00:38:11,442 --> 00:38:16,522 And so, like, yeah, from an accountant where it's like, hey, we're used to working with ledgers. 466 00:38:16,642 --> 00:38:17,942 We have double entry bookkeeping. 467 00:38:19,142 --> 00:38:32,802 Having, you know, an open, transparent public ledger was always one of those, you know, initial fascinating things that I would think your average accountant should be like, at least that's interesting, right? 468 00:38:32,802 --> 00:38:40,222 but we haven't had a ton of adoption necessarily in the accounting world compared to 469 00:38:40,222 --> 00:38:43,162 at least the broader space but maybe we're catching up. 470 00:38:44,862 --> 00:38:50,942 Hey that's what we're trying to do here right Wyatt we're trying to bring some more normal CPAs 471 00:38:50,942 --> 00:38:58,322 into the fold. Yeah I mean I just I feel like it's so interesting that you know how even how 472 00:38:58,322 --> 00:39:05,862 the nodes work. The analogy that I heard early on was, it's like a group of people, call it 10 473 00:39:05,862 --> 00:39:13,822 people who have all memorized the New Testament of the Bible, right? And so if one person says that 474 00:39:13,822 --> 00:39:19,622 John 3.16 says something that it doesn't, right? The other nine folks who have memorized it, they 475 00:39:19,622 --> 00:39:26,562 can all as a group say, no, like we all say unanimously, that's not true. And that's what 476 00:39:26,562 --> 00:39:31,342 the nodes are able to do, right? Since we're all running the same code, we've all got the same 477 00:39:31,342 --> 00:39:38,382 transaction history, we can validate amongst ourselves what's true on the network and what's 478 00:39:38,382 --> 00:39:43,242 not true, which is just, is very interesting because generally you, well, one, generally all 479 00:39:43,242 --> 00:39:49,202 that stuff's hidden, right? Maybe there's a group of nodes for JPMorgan Chase that has all their 480 00:39:49,202 --> 00:39:55,762 transaction history, but of course, none of us can see that. And so, yeah, it's definitely very, 481 00:39:55,762 --> 00:40:00,662 That was always a big part of my Bitcoin journey as an accountant myself, I guess. 482 00:40:01,382 --> 00:40:01,942 Yeah. 483 00:40:02,162 --> 00:40:10,022 And I think the other big difference there is Bitcoin is not tangible, right? 484 00:40:10,102 --> 00:40:20,302 But it is actually sending data back and forth that has something to it, right? 485 00:40:20,302 --> 00:40:25,042 Whereas literally on the JP Morgan spreadsheet is just numbers from one sheet to another. 486 00:40:25,762 --> 00:40:27,162 And it's like, oh, I owe you this. 487 00:40:27,222 --> 00:40:28,222 Now you owe me that. 488 00:40:28,322 --> 00:40:30,342 And these numbers go back and forth, right? 489 00:40:30,822 --> 00:40:37,762 Whereas like Bitcoin, whoever is it currently at, whoever has those keys has that Bitcoin, right? 490 00:40:37,882 --> 00:40:42,682 And if it doesn't move, then you don't have a transition, a transfer of that Bitcoin. 491 00:40:43,762 --> 00:40:55,302 So it is that kind of that digital but real asset side that is, I think, really hard to wrap your mind around at first of like, hey, these are just made up numbers. 492 00:40:55,302 --> 00:41:05,522 And it's like, I mean, kind of, but also like there is something behind it and it does require real, real energy to move the Bitcoin. 493 00:41:05,902 --> 00:41:15,142 And yeah, it is one of those things that, you know, I don't think I even like touched the surface on for the first five years of kind of like thinking about Bitcoin. 494 00:41:15,682 --> 00:41:16,902 It took me a little while. 495 00:41:19,302 --> 00:41:23,062 Well, I'm happy you brought that up, Joe, because that's one of the points I harp on. 496 00:41:23,062 --> 00:41:29,462 we're all responsible for building a Bitcoinized financial system within the values, 497 00:41:29,722 --> 00:41:35,362 principles, and ethos of Bitcoin. And I think that only happens with the asset settling and trading 498 00:41:35,362 --> 00:41:40,222 in kind. And that's extremely important and obviously unique to Bitcoin just being a digital 499 00:41:40,222 --> 00:41:45,922 bear asset. So I love that aspect about Bitcoin. I think it's really kind of 500 00:41:45,922 --> 00:41:48,902 underrated, especially when we're talking about how centralized ledgers work. 501 00:41:48,902 --> 00:41:56,542 This episode is brought to you by Satoshi Pacioli, a full-service accounting and tax 502 00:41:56,542 --> 00:42:01,142 firm built for the Bitcoin economy. If you run a Bitcoin business, mine Bitcoin, or invest in it, 503 00:42:01,222 --> 00:42:05,742 you need advisors who actually understand how this industry works. Satoshi Pacioli handles 504 00:42:05,742 --> 00:42:10,222 bookkeeping, financial reporting, tax compliance, and strategic planning for Bitcoin-focused 505 00:42:10,222 --> 00:42:13,982 companies and individuals. They speak the language of Bitcoiners and help you stay 506 00:42:13,982 --> 00:42:18,402 compliant while building for the long term. To learn more or book a consultation, visit 507 00:42:18,402 --> 00:42:26,322 satoshipacioli.com. So I'd love to just bring up how the firm is changing. Of course, you know, 508 00:42:26,362 --> 00:42:31,602 for those who don't know, Joe and I are actually merging our firms together here by the end of this 509 00:42:31,602 --> 00:42:38,662 year. But specifically, like, you know, your team has grown a lot over the last, obviously, three or 510 00:42:38,662 --> 00:42:45,322 four years. And I'd love for you to touch on, you know, the client advisory services that you guys 511 00:42:45,322 --> 00:42:50,022 are adding on, as well as touch on the PBM side, because I think it's really unique what you, 512 00:42:50,422 --> 00:42:56,562 what you're trying to build, you know, essentially trying to help bring the Bitcoin businesses 513 00:42:56,562 --> 00:43:03,802 into the future and adding some pretty unique consulting services on top of the 514 00:43:03,802 --> 00:43:12,302 underlying accounting stack? Yeah. There's probably a lot there. I could dive into each of it. 515 00:43:12,602 --> 00:43:20,002 I mean, as far as the team growth, yeah, we're looking at beginning of next year as a merge 516 00:43:20,002 --> 00:43:28,862 firm, about 11 people to start. You said growth over the last three or four years. It really has 517 00:43:28,862 --> 00:43:34,462 been the last two years it was basically it was just me for the first two years um and then 518 00:43:34,462 --> 00:43:42,342 essentially added two people in year three um and now as we're going you know year four into year 519 00:43:42,342 --> 00:43:48,822 five we'll be at 11 um so yeah pretty pretty significant growth in a relatively short period 520 00:43:48,822 --> 00:43:53,342 of time after like a kind of a slow start there right where it's the first couple years it's very 521 00:43:53,342 --> 00:43:57,522 Like, hey, what's going on? What's the industry? What is our actual unique fit here? 522 00:43:57,982 --> 00:43:59,282 So that's been interesting. 523 00:44:01,082 --> 00:44:07,082 And yeah, kind of like you touched on, we're trying to see what is out there as far as needs in the industry 524 00:44:07,082 --> 00:44:10,482 and what are kind of some of the unique values that we can bring. 525 00:44:10,602 --> 00:44:17,362 And so we started with, you know, the accounting, the monthly close, the financial reporting stuff. 526 00:44:17,362 --> 00:44:25,422 um we have essentially like three four people for three or four person team doing that um 527 00:44:25,422 --> 00:44:31,582 we have you know a whole full tax function um what are we up to there on the tax side now 528 00:44:31,582 --> 00:44:49,133 if we do what we do fds yeah i think it uh five five or six of us depending on what what bucket you fall in figure out how much you want to allocate to each person So yeah that kind of always been like a 50 thing for us though of like between tax and then the monthly accounting 529 00:44:50,253 --> 00:45:00,533 Kind of been 50-50 as far as like workload, revenue coming in, kind of a split there in that they do work very nicely together of like, hey, you need tax support. 530 00:45:00,693 --> 00:45:01,893 You need monthly accounting. 531 00:45:01,893 --> 00:45:09,093 you need you know and then also like leaning into like fractional cfo client advisory services 532 00:45:09,093 --> 00:45:15,873 we're gonna have a full-time person devoted to fractional cfo work and in the new year we already 533 00:45:15,873 --> 00:45:21,173 have you know i think probably a backlog of clients that need that right now uh so really 534 00:45:21,173 --> 00:45:28,893 being able to ramp that up in 2026 um and really just being able to focus on i mean i think uniquely 535 00:45:28,893 --> 00:45:36,653 that that fractional cfo side it is getting someone with many years of experience doing 536 00:45:36,653 --> 00:45:41,433 fractional cfo work but also with a deep understanding of bitcoin is going to be very 537 00:45:41,433 --> 00:45:45,893 hard to find there's a few of them out there but like being able to bring one on full time onto the 538 00:45:45,893 --> 00:45:51,393 team now that we have kind of the workload and need for it has been like i think will be a huge 539 00:45:51,393 --> 00:45:59,513 value add across our whole client base right um and that there is the hey a dedicated fractional 540 00:45:59,513 --> 00:46:04,453 cfo and then there is the hey i just need these one-off questions here and there and like being 541 00:46:04,453 --> 00:46:10,073 able to have that on the team will be great um and then you reference the kind of the pbm stuff 542 00:46:10,073 --> 00:46:16,533 uh what i would broadly call kind of like organizational development um a little bit 543 00:46:16,533 --> 00:46:22,613 outside the the main accounting focus of the organization outside accounting and tax um or 544 00:46:22,613 --> 00:46:29,613 even finance where it gets into how do you as a bitcoin or want to think about running your 545 00:46:29,613 --> 00:46:36,593 business growing your business um that has been one of those things where i came from an organization 546 00:46:36,593 --> 00:46:43,513 that had a pretty strong culture as far as like organization development leadership and how 547 00:46:43,513 --> 00:46:48,853 organizations should run um and one of the guys that worked there and that i learned a bunch of 548 00:46:48,853 --> 00:46:54,833 stuff from was looking for new opportunities really wanted to get into bitcoin um and so it 549 00:46:54,833 --> 00:47:00,573 was one of those just i i wouldn't have done it if they're like the time time in place hadn't kind 550 00:47:00,573 --> 00:47:07,013 of worked out nicely for both of us um and so he's been helping us internally for the last few months 551 00:47:07,013 --> 00:47:09,913 to kind of build out our processes 552 00:47:09,913 --> 00:47:11,533 and the timing's worked great 553 00:47:11,533 --> 00:47:13,673 as far as we've grown as a team 554 00:47:13,673 --> 00:47:16,973 to help us think more strategically about things. 555 00:47:18,833 --> 00:47:20,653 A whole wide range of things 556 00:47:20,653 --> 00:47:22,673 that would probably be better to dive into 557 00:47:22,673 --> 00:47:25,173 with him versus me trying to explain it all, 558 00:47:25,293 --> 00:47:28,153 but really just fundamentally trying to get organizations 559 00:47:28,153 --> 00:47:31,393 to be strategic and with that Bitcoin mindset 560 00:47:31,393 --> 00:47:33,733 as far as growth and long-term thinking. 561 00:47:34,253 --> 00:47:36,613 And we have him working with one external client 562 00:47:36,613 --> 00:47:38,613 is kind of a test case for us right now. 563 00:47:38,733 --> 00:47:42,653 And then really looking to roll that out broader in the new year again 564 00:47:42,653 --> 00:47:47,593 to what other Bitcoin businesses out there are growing, doing really well. 565 00:47:47,993 --> 00:47:49,573 Maybe they have a first-time founder. 566 00:47:50,013 --> 00:47:52,393 They want to get things organized as far as like, 567 00:47:52,473 --> 00:47:54,273 hey, how do I want to run this business? 568 00:47:54,373 --> 00:47:56,293 How do I get everyone on the same page? 569 00:47:56,593 --> 00:47:58,453 I think there's a huge need for that. 570 00:47:58,453 --> 00:48:05,233 And so we'll be rolling out that more broadly probably towards January this year 571 00:48:05,233 --> 00:48:08,573 and seeing what companies kind of want to dive into it. 572 00:48:11,253 --> 00:48:13,133 Well, I'm so happy we got on this topic 573 00:48:13,133 --> 00:48:14,913 because that was something I was really interested in 574 00:48:14,913 --> 00:48:16,653 chatting with you about, Joe, 575 00:48:16,753 --> 00:48:20,553 is I think there's a little bit of a chicken and egg problem 576 00:48:20,553 --> 00:48:23,093 when it comes to growing Bitcoin businesses. 577 00:48:23,353 --> 00:48:24,773 You spent time in traditional finance. 578 00:48:24,873 --> 00:48:26,693 You obviously built a business in Bitcoin. 579 00:48:27,133 --> 00:48:28,193 So two-parter here. 580 00:48:28,373 --> 00:48:31,553 It's like when you've come to evaluating talent, 581 00:48:31,693 --> 00:48:34,493 are you kind of prioritizing knowledge in Bitcoin? 582 00:48:34,493 --> 00:48:42,993 Are you kind of prioritizing a knowledge in your core field and like trying to teach or train staff on one or the other? 583 00:48:43,613 --> 00:48:55,953 And then this second, which kind of related to what you were just talking about, being in Bitcoin, servicing Bitcoiners, having Bitcoin as a core function ethos of your business. 584 00:48:56,273 --> 00:49:00,553 How is that influence your thoughts on your business model? 585 00:49:00,553 --> 00:49:06,393 How is it? How does it vary from traditional CPA or advisory firms? Why don't you tackle those two things for us? 586 00:49:07,393 --> 00:49:24,613 Yeah. So, I mean, I guess on the first side. So one of the one of the tools we have kind of in our our organizational framework is like when we look at talent, we have them on like a matrix of like virtues and then talent. 587 00:49:24,613 --> 00:49:27,953 So it is like, how technically competent are you? 588 00:49:28,013 --> 00:49:30,333 How good are you at doing the thing that you're going to do? 589 00:49:30,413 --> 00:49:32,413 And like, what are your virtues, right? 590 00:49:33,413 --> 00:49:37,033 And you decide how much like Bitcoin wants to like work into those virtues. 591 00:49:37,753 --> 00:49:43,773 But really it is like, we're primarily focused on like, who are the high value people that 592 00:49:43,773 --> 00:49:48,013 if I need to teach them something, I can teach them, but they're going to be the right people 593 00:49:48,013 --> 00:49:53,193 for the organization long-term over the person that may be the most technically competent. 594 00:49:53,193 --> 00:49:57,733 And I think I would probably apply that to Bitcoin or accounting, right? 595 00:49:57,793 --> 00:50:02,233 So I can teach someone more about accounting or I could teach them more about tax. 596 00:50:02,593 --> 00:50:05,633 I can't teach them to be a better person, right? 597 00:50:06,273 --> 00:50:08,033 We're probably a little bit past that phase. 598 00:50:08,913 --> 00:50:13,033 So that's kind of how we think about it as far as like priorities there. 599 00:50:13,773 --> 00:50:21,413 And I think either way, like we've had people that are newer to Bitcoin that are still learning, but really want to grow, right? 600 00:50:21,413 --> 00:50:24,373 And then we have people that have been in Bitcoin for a while. 601 00:50:24,593 --> 00:50:28,253 That's maybe more closer to me where it's like, hey, I just want to work in the Bitcoin. 602 00:50:28,993 --> 00:50:31,913 How do I figure out how to contribute there, right? 603 00:50:31,993 --> 00:50:37,033 And so Bitcoin is inherently a piece of that, I think, as we look at the people that we're bringing on. 604 00:50:38,113 --> 00:50:40,013 But it is not like a one-size-fits-all. 605 00:50:40,113 --> 00:50:42,453 It is very much, I think, virtues first. 606 00:50:42,753 --> 00:50:46,233 And then out of that, like, what's the right fit for the organization? 607 00:50:48,373 --> 00:50:49,953 So I think that was the first part of your question. 608 00:50:49,953 --> 00:50:50,813 What's the second part? 609 00:50:51,413 --> 00:50:57,313 just how uh bitcoin has changed or um influenced your thoughts on your business model 610 00:50:57,313 --> 00:51:02,213 yeah i mean this is kind of one of the things that we try to build into this what we're calling 611 00:51:02,213 --> 00:51:08,413 like a pbm product which is um yeah essentially yeah like an organizational framework of like how 612 00:51:08,413 --> 00:51:13,353 do you think about your business and one of the key aspects there that we kind of align with is 613 00:51:13,353 --> 00:51:20,553 taking a long-term view of how you grow your business and i think that nicely fits in with 614 00:51:20,553 --> 00:51:26,793 kind of the Bitcoin ethos of low time preference, right? And it is, how do I build this business to 615 00:51:26,793 --> 00:51:33,053 be sustainable and add value to clients in the long term? We know there's a bunch of things that 616 00:51:33,053 --> 00:51:38,273 you can do in the short term to make more money. But is that really in the interest of your clients? 617 00:51:38,273 --> 00:51:42,813 And I think that aligns nicely with, hey, you know, I'm holding Bitcoin. I know it's going to 618 00:51:42,813 --> 00:51:50,113 be volatile. But I think long term, it is better for humanity. It's a better asset. I want to hold 619 00:51:50,113 --> 00:51:56,313 some portion of my wealth in it right and so i think those as we looked at this product and as 620 00:51:56,313 --> 00:52:01,793 we're trying to build it out of like who is going to like gravitate to it and would actually buy in 621 00:52:01,793 --> 00:52:07,693 and get value in um into some of these concepts it's going to be the big corner that are already 622 00:52:07,693 --> 00:52:13,033 kind of familiar with it and comfortable with it um from a very like kind of base level 623 00:52:13,033 --> 00:52:19,753 oh that's awesome and you know follow a question how did you justify bringing 624 00:52:19,753 --> 00:52:27,313 jordan on even though he scored well on that virtue scale uh yes uh it was uh i mean 625 00:52:27,313 --> 00:52:31,453 yeah he was obviously very high in other areas but that is one of those things actually 626 00:52:31,453 --> 00:52:38,553 i'm like we have like a we call it like a matrix right and like you actually 627 00:52:38,553 --> 00:52:45,313 the person that's really high in the talent section um if they're not like they're actually 628 00:52:45,313 --> 00:52:49,393 the worst one to have if they're low on the virtue because like they're the ones that can 629 00:52:49,393 --> 00:52:56,453 actually do the worst uh damage to your organization um so as much as i would like to say 630 00:52:56,453 --> 00:53:00,513 that jordan is like very very low on that uh it probably doesn't work out 631 00:53:00,513 --> 00:53:08,593 no it's been uh no it's been fun honestly i like joe and i met because i was trying to 632 00:53:08,593 --> 00:53:13,893 you know talk to him about hey maybe this software we're developing would be helpful for the firm and 633 00:53:13,893 --> 00:53:18,573 he's like yeah no that sounds interesting but uh what if we just merge firms together too and i was 634 00:53:18,573 --> 00:53:25,133 like let's do that too that sounds fun so yeah yeah no it was very much one of those things where 635 00:53:25,133 --> 00:53:32,453 we we knew we we potentially were growing and it was like hey we got all this in down demand 636 00:53:32,453 --> 00:53:37,613 it was me and seth it was like all right we're pulling this off but it's like we need more 637 00:53:37,613 --> 00:53:43,833 people we need more expertise and jordan had been doing this for a while already uh and he's building 638 00:53:43,833 --> 00:53:48,853 up the software so it was like hey if we need more people like there's not gonna be anybody better 639 00:53:48,853 --> 00:53:53,113 than than jordan so like how do we pull this off that's mutually beneficial for everybody 640 00:53:53,113 --> 00:53:58,873 and so we talked for a little while um eventually able to to make it happen 641 00:53:58,873 --> 00:54:06,073 yeah no it's all all fun stuff well i think that that i don't have any other questions i don't know 642 00:54:06,073 --> 00:54:11,713 why is anything else on your mind you want to make sure we cover yeah um i'm starting to think 643 00:54:11,713 --> 00:54:17,373 we should just make this a recurring question for for all of our our guests but i think it's so 644 00:54:17,373 --> 00:54:22,693 funny joe that uh it's almost like innate within bitcoiners like they have this skepticism 645 00:54:22,693 --> 00:54:28,833 of professional services like i just buy bitcoin i'm fine how have you encountered that how have 646 00:54:28,833 --> 00:54:33,913 you kind of uh countered it or you know kind of you know educated your client base where it's like 647 00:54:33,913 --> 00:54:41,513 yes bitcoin's awesome but my services are still valuable yeah um i don't we probably don't get 648 00:54:41,513 --> 00:54:48,193 that as much as you do um because like i mean we will get the people that will say 649 00:54:48,193 --> 00:54:53,453 oh why would I pay taxes on my bitcoin the government doesn't know about it I'm not going 650 00:54:53,453 --> 00:54:58,333 to pay taxes when I send my bitcoin or whatever it is I'm like that's fine you go ahead and do that 651 00:54:58,333 --> 00:55:03,213 we're not going to be your accountant um but generally if you are coming to us they like they 652 00:55:03,213 --> 00:55:08,193 realize there's a need for it right and they're trying to do it correctly and so like those people 653 00:55:08,193 --> 00:55:17,253 that are coming to us like we get less of that in that um assuming that they do want to compliantly 654 00:55:17,253 --> 00:55:23,013 file their taxes like they're going to have a need and like a support for that um so probably 655 00:55:23,013 --> 00:55:27,373 less so than than your side where they are saying like hey i'm just going to hold everything at 656 00:55:27,373 --> 00:55:31,973 bitcoin i don't need any help where it's like there's a little bit more nuance to that right 657 00:55:31,973 --> 00:55:41,613 um but yeah i think it i think we'll get more of that honestly um as people just hold the etf right 658 00:55:41,613 --> 00:55:46,153 and they're like oh i just have the etf it's just like anything else and then it's like all right 659 00:55:46,153 --> 00:55:50,133 if you just want to hold the etf that's fine again we're probably not the right fit for you 660 00:55:50,133 --> 00:55:54,553 um so i i we'll probably see that evolve in the years to come 661 00:55:54,553 --> 00:56:01,133 must be nice you guys have a spoiled riches over at satoshi patroli i should have been an accountant 662 00:56:01,133 --> 00:56:06,533 i i don't know about that every every accountants i've ever worked with i feel like in the first 663 00:56:06,533 --> 00:56:10,333 couple years they're like oh what do you want to do next how do you want to evolve and they're like 664 00:56:10,333 --> 00:56:13,933 i want to go work in finance i'm like i know you want to go work in finance but 665 00:56:13,933 --> 00:56:21,413 someone's gotta do the accounting uh yeah yeah i wouldn't be too jealous no definitely not 666 00:56:21,413 --> 00:56:27,733 well this is great joe thank you so much for just being so gracious and uh generous with your time 667 00:56:27,733 --> 00:56:31,633 uh and for being our first guest on the bitcoin for financial services 668 00:56:31,633 --> 00:56:38,873 podcast um we'll be excited to bring you back out to denver uh where wyatt's at we're 669 00:56:39,333 --> 00:56:43,893 out in the mountains mountain men out there why it's always giving me stuff you know crab 670 00:56:43,893 --> 00:56:45,113 about living in the Midwest. 671 00:56:45,813 --> 00:56:47,513 So I think he's... 672 00:56:47,513 --> 00:56:48,873 Joe's trying to get me to move to Nashville. 673 00:56:49,153 --> 00:56:51,493 Wife's trying to get me to move out West. 674 00:56:51,953 --> 00:56:53,413 And my in-laws want me to move to Florida. 675 00:56:53,673 --> 00:56:56,433 So I got to figure out where to go next, I guess. 676 00:56:56,633 --> 00:56:59,353 But all that said, really appreciate it, Joe. 677 00:56:59,693 --> 00:57:00,313 Yeah, absolutely. 678 00:57:00,433 --> 00:57:01,153 Thanks for having me on. 679 00:57:01,233 --> 00:57:03,113 Yeah, thanks so much for coming on, Joe. 680 00:57:03,113 --> 00:57:06,533 I hope you were the first guest with a badge of honor. 681 00:57:06,993 --> 00:57:09,273 Quick clarification, though, because that was slanderous. 682 00:57:09,453 --> 00:57:10,493 I'm a Midwest boy. 683 00:57:10,833 --> 00:57:11,873 I'm from the Midwest. 684 00:57:12,053 --> 00:57:13,133 Kentucky is not the Midwest. 685 00:57:13,313 --> 00:57:13,873 That's the South. 686 00:57:13,893 --> 00:57:21,553 okay well Louisville is right on the is right on the line generally is Tennessee in the Midwest 687 00:57:21,553 --> 00:57:28,193 yeah that's the south too okay that's what we said right when we were getting on the call I was like 688 00:57:28,193 --> 00:57:34,033 Joe did you get snow today he's like no I'm in the south I'm like all right fair enough so um 689 00:57:34,033 --> 00:57:38,553 well this is great yeah we'll probably have to bring you back on Joe maybe uh post-tax season 690 00:57:38,553 --> 00:57:43,293 and get the rundown on how everything went. 691 00:57:43,673 --> 00:57:46,953 So where can people find the content 692 00:57:46,953 --> 00:57:48,433 that Pacioli's putting out, 693 00:57:49,233 --> 00:57:53,073 follow you if they wanted to reach out for services? 694 00:57:53,773 --> 00:57:55,973 Yeah, probably it should be pretty easy 695 00:57:55,973 --> 00:57:57,193 to find Satoshi Patroli. 696 00:57:57,373 --> 00:57:59,093 We're really the only one out there. 697 00:57:59,353 --> 00:58:00,573 It's a little hard to spell, 698 00:58:00,573 --> 00:58:03,433 but Satoshi Patroli accounting, 699 00:58:03,693 --> 00:58:07,353 you'll find this, our website, Twitter, Noster. 700 00:58:07,353 --> 00:58:14,433 we have a sub stack as well so if you want more of this like content i would go to the sub stack 701 00:58:14,433 --> 00:58:18,513 probably first that's where we're really trying to build out and get some more educational 702 00:58:18,513 --> 00:58:24,513 resources whether for our clients or more broadly um some really valuable information that we think 703 00:58:24,513 --> 00:58:30,973 is missing there that's hard to fit into like i'm a short you know short tweet so um that's where i 704 00:58:30,973 --> 00:58:37,513 would point people to the most. Perfect. All righty. Well, thank you so much, Joe. We will 705 00:58:37,513 --> 00:58:39,533 talk to you next time. Great. Thanks. 706 00:59:00,973 --> 00:59:03,293 and our clients are better served. 707 00:59:03,993 --> 00:59:06,753 Stay sharp, stay sovereign, and keep leading from the front. 708 00:59:30,973 --> 01:00:00,953 Thank you.