1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,000
Now that I've written the book, my focus is actually going to be over the next year to put out a lot of Bitcoin 101 content, like the fundamentals, because it's great to talk about Bitcoin with the folks that are already orange pilled, but there are so many people we still need to reach.

2
00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:22,720
No one ever questions validity of money. They think money is real because they can use it to buy stuff and they don't think any further than that.

3
00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:28,620
I think it's a greater problem today that we can't take our hard-earned time and store

4
00:00:28,620 --> 00:00:33,600
that energy in something that doesn't get diluted and lose purchasing power.

5
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:38,280
I don't know why as a society, we're so scared now of competition, right?

6
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,420
I mean, it's like we have to level the playing field.

7
00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:41,720
Everyone has to have a trophy.

8
00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:44,180
Everyone has to start on third base.

9
00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:44,600
Why?

10
00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:45,980
It's that meme, right?

11
00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:47,820
Like hard times create strong men.

12
00:00:47,940 --> 00:00:49,380
Strong men create easy times.

13
00:00:49,500 --> 00:00:50,680
Easy times create weak men.

14
00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:55,440
Think of how far we can go with perfect money that really rewards value.

15
00:00:55,580 --> 00:00:58,340
Everything's getting more expensive and lower in quality.

16
00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:00,860
And I didn't understand why until Bitcoin.

17
00:01:01,140 --> 00:01:03,820
Bitcoin is for everyone and Bitcoin is hope.

18
00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,080
Natalie, a warm welcome back to the Bitcoin Infinity Show.

19
00:01:07,420 --> 00:01:08,200
Great to have you back.

20
00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:09,900
Thank you so much for having me.

21
00:01:09,960 --> 00:01:10,900
It's great to see you.

22
00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:12,200
Likewise.

23
00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:13,920
What have you been up to lately?

24
00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:14,980
Oh, gosh.

25
00:01:15,660 --> 00:01:19,040
I mean, I wrote a book and it's finally coming out.

26
00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:24,200
So that's probably the most exciting update, I would say, and still trying to grow the show

27
00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,360
and educate as many people as possible.

28
00:01:26,980 --> 00:01:30,840
Now that I've written the book, my focus is actually going to be over the next year to

29
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:37,360
put out a lot of Bitcoin 101 content, like the fundamentals, because it's great to talk

30
00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,920
about Bitcoin with the folks that are already orange-pilled, but there are so many people

31
00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:42,020
we still need to reach.

32
00:01:42,500 --> 00:01:44,580
And sometimes it's a book that works.

33
00:01:44,700 --> 00:01:45,840
Sometimes it's a video.

34
00:01:46,220 --> 00:01:47,880
Sometimes it's a webinar.

35
00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:53,900
so I just feel like I want to get more involved in the 101 conversations again since I remember

36
00:01:53,900 --> 00:01:58,780
what it's like to be very new and skeptical and feel like I'm too late or you know there's

37
00:01:58,780 --> 00:02:01,800
something I don't understand about it and I'm trying to reach all the newbies.

38
00:02:02,340 --> 00:02:08,200
Oh that sounds great I mean Luke and I we see ourselves as conviction deepeners more than

39
00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:13,120
orange pillars so it's great that there are actual orange pillars out there too I mean and you've done

40
00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,860
a great job. I think you've, on the whole, you've, you've probably orange filled more people than

41
00:02:17,860 --> 00:02:22,080
most because you have such a large reach and everything. And your book is called Bitcoin for

42
00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,560
everyone, isn't it? It's called Bitcoin is for everyone. Yes. But there are so many people that

43
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,840
came before me that are such great educators. Like I would actually say that Max and Stacey

44
00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:37,020
have educated more people than anyone the earliest, right? For the longest time. And I, I loved their

45
00:02:37,020 --> 00:02:41,460
show. The fact that they were actually, you know, on TV talking about Bitcoin when it was like

46
00:02:41,460 --> 00:02:44,020
$10 or something is so wild.

47
00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,240
So I'm standing on the shoulders of giants.

48
00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:47,920
Yeah, aren't we all?

49
00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,180
And sometimes we're sitting shoulder to shoulder with giants.

50
00:02:51,180 --> 00:02:54,820
And that's absolutely amazing that you can do this in this space.

51
00:02:54,820 --> 00:02:57,900
I was on a spaces with Max and Stacey yesterday.

52
00:02:58,300 --> 00:03:01,760
Because I'm going to El Salvador next week for the historical thing.

53
00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:03,740
I so wish I could be there.

54
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,020
I can't make it because I'm launching my books.

55
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,920
I have to go to New York and I'll be there for basically that week.

56
00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:12,240
but I think it's going to be a great event.

57
00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:13,000
I'm so excited.

58
00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:14,460
I can't wait to see photos from it.

59
00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:16,140
No, it looks amazing.

60
00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:17,980
And yeah, Stacey mentioned,

61
00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,300
she was actually the first person ever

62
00:03:20,300 --> 00:03:23,140
to mention Bitcoin in any type of mainstream media.

63
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:23,980
Yeah, I believe it.

64
00:03:24,100 --> 00:03:25,060
Which is just fantastic.

65
00:03:25,660 --> 00:03:28,800
And this is 2011 or something like that.

66
00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,340
Bitcoin is like at 60 cents or whatever.

67
00:03:33,220 --> 00:03:33,740
Well, you know,

68
00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,140
and I give another shout out to Max and Stacey

69
00:03:36,140 --> 00:03:37,820
because when I went to my first conference

70
00:03:37,820 --> 00:03:39,060
with my best friend, Paula,

71
00:03:39,060 --> 00:03:40,060
It was 2021.

72
00:03:41,020 --> 00:03:45,260
I had just recorded a couple of episodes of the podcast, and I was still working full-time

73
00:03:45,260 --> 00:03:45,880
as a reporter.

74
00:03:46,660 --> 00:03:48,480
And no one knew who I was.

75
00:03:48,580 --> 00:03:50,000
And we didn't know anyone.

76
00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,560
We were really nervous going into the conference, but super excited to listen to the panels.

77
00:03:55,140 --> 00:03:57,460
And Max and Stacey were so welcoming.

78
00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,260
And they invited us to their event.

79
00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:04,660
And at that event, we met so many people who were orange-pilled by them through their shows.

80
00:04:04,660 --> 00:04:07,560
And they came in from all over the world.

81
00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,540
and they were so grateful for Max and Stacey.

82
00:04:10,980 --> 00:04:12,200
And it was so sweet.

83
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,880
And they've always just been so supportive and so great.

84
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,160
And they're doing amazing things for El Salvador.

85
00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,440
So yeah, Max and Stacey are the best.

86
00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:20,340
We're lucky to have them.

87
00:04:21,060 --> 00:04:21,740
Yeah, absolutely.

88
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,760
And I'm looking forward a lot to seeing them again

89
00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,540
and to return to El Salvador.

90
00:04:29,820 --> 00:04:30,820
I just love it there.

91
00:04:32,020 --> 00:04:34,500
There's an energy in that country

92
00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:35,680
that you don't find elsewhere,

93
00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:42,920
like this optimism everywhere. And I absolutely love that. So yeah, I've been saying lately on a

94
00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:48,660
lot of pods and stuff that Bitcoin is not really for everyone, but it's for anyone.

95
00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,880
So what would you say to that? How would you debunk me?

96
00:04:54,420 --> 00:04:59,760
Well, you're not the first person from the Bitcoin community who has said that. And I kind of chuckle

97
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:06,880
because I will tell you that if you're looking at a store shelf of books, it's probably more

98
00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:11,700
appealing for the average person who's not a Bitcoiner to read Bitcoin is for everyone rather

99
00:05:11,700 --> 00:05:17,400
than Bitcoin is for anyone. And it's kind of like, well, who are we leaving out there?

100
00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,620
I don't know. I mean, I do see it as for everyone and it's their choice, obviously,

101
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:26,640
whether we can lead them to water. We hope they will drink. It's their decision. But there's no

102
00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:31,460
one that's excluded from the Bitcoin network and the Bitcoin ecosystem. If they want to get involved,

103
00:05:31,540 --> 00:05:36,280
if they want to invest, if they want to mine, if they want to participate, it's open to everyone,

104
00:05:36,420 --> 00:05:40,680
right? So that's why it's for everyone. And I really just feel like the message is so important

105
00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:46,040
today because a lot of people feel like they're too late or people think it's for one political

106
00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:52,320
party or another, or they're too old, it's too technical. And my message is just to not feel that

107
00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:57,900
way. The book is really a message of hope and empowerment that it's really early and all of us

108
00:05:57,900 --> 00:06:02,120
can embrace this new technology. And it's critical that we do, especially now with what's happening

109
00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:06,680
in the world. And it allows us to save for the future. And I think that that allows us to feel

110
00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:11,980
a sense of freedom and the ability to think more, right, about what we can do for one another and

111
00:06:11,980 --> 00:06:17,100
what we can do for our descendants and for our future. So it makes me really excited. Like the

112
00:06:17,100 --> 00:06:23,880
book has a very very positive message to it oh fantastic i i couldn't agree more and like i i

113
00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:31,100
i've written five books at this point so so i have my my own version of what the process of writing

114
00:06:31,100 --> 00:06:38,260
a book is like but i have a sneaky suspicion that our processes are kind of different so so first of

115
00:06:38,260 --> 00:06:43,840
all what what what compelled you to write a book like what what what what's what's your driving

116
00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:49,900
force for getting this text out there? Well, I'd love to hear your experience too. I didn't set out

117
00:06:49,900 --> 00:06:55,740
to write a book. I was reached out to first by a book agent who is lovely. Her name's Maura,

118
00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:00,920
and she was already orange-pilled. She was a Bitcoiner, and she thought that there needs to

119
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:06,280
be a very, very mainstream-friendly 101 book that can be published for the masses.

120
00:07:07,060 --> 00:07:11,000
And my first reaction, which maybe some of the listeners are probably thinking,

121
00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,000
well, that exists already, right? Because I've read all the Bitcoin books. Some of them I've

122
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:21,040
read multiple times. And so I was kind of like, they're already out there. And then I was approached

123
00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:27,460
by a publisher. And the publisher actually published one of my favorite non-Bitcoin books

124
00:07:27,460 --> 00:07:33,100
within the kind of business or finance ecosystem. And it's called Psychology of Money by Morgan

125
00:07:33,100 --> 00:07:39,220
Housel. So he found Morgan. And I love that book. That book was actually first given to me by

126
00:07:39,220 --> 00:07:42,200
James Lavish to read. And I don't know if you've, have you read it?

127
00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,720
No, I haven't read it, but I heard about it. It's one of those that are,

128
00:07:45,820 --> 00:07:48,140
that you see in airports, I believe.

129
00:07:48,380 --> 00:07:52,920
Yeah, it's really good. It's sold millions of copies around the world. I'm like shilling this

130
00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:58,980
book instead, but it's really good. And it talks about the psychology behind investing and our

131
00:07:58,980 --> 00:08:03,760
relationship with money. And it has really interesting lessons and anecdotes from some

132
00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:09,020
people who are just average Joes, like for example, a janitor who just worked his whole entire

133
00:08:09,020 --> 00:08:15,860
life, this average nine to five job, but he was so good at putting away and investing that he passed

134
00:08:15,860 --> 00:08:20,680
away a millionaire and gave away his fortune. And it showed the power of compounding and just

135
00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:25,340
really interesting stories. And so when he approached me and he thought that there should be

136
00:08:25,340 --> 00:08:30,740
a Bitcoin book, the two of them with their support and encouragement, I thought, okay,

137
00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:36,560
well, why not? Why not give it a try? There are situations where I feel like I've given Bitcoin

138
00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:41,420
books to my girlfriends or family members and they don't get through the whole thing or they

139
00:08:41,420 --> 00:08:46,940
put it down or something loses them. And so I thought, I want to write a book that they will

140
00:08:46,940 --> 00:08:52,020
finish and sit down and have the same experience that I did when I read my first Bitcoin book,

141
00:08:52,020 --> 00:08:57,500
which was like, oh my gosh, how did I not know this? How did I not learn this in school?

142
00:08:58,020 --> 00:09:02,280
Oh my gosh, this might be the future. I need to learn everything I can about it.

143
00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:06,360
And so maybe my book can be like an entry point for all the other great books out there in this

144
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,340
space and the great content that's out there. Because for me, it all started with that. It

145
00:09:10,340 --> 00:09:16,300
started with a book and I sat back and I was like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, now I understand the

146
00:09:16,300 --> 00:09:20,980
problems that exist all around me that I've been reporting on for like a decade. Now I understand

147
00:09:20,980 --> 00:09:25,500
why we're so divided. Now I understand why the prices keep going up. Now I understand why I can't

148
00:09:25,500 --> 00:09:31,860
afford anything. And now there's a solution that we can maybe get behind. And so that's the reason

149
00:09:31,860 --> 00:09:38,080
And I wanted to just share my voice and throw my hat in the ring and see if my book will help anyone.

150
00:09:39,580 --> 00:09:45,040
I love that attitude because I think we need all of these different angles, right?

151
00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:49,140
And there's different approaches to explaining this thing.

152
00:09:49,140 --> 00:09:52,700
Because my books don't appeal to everyone.

153
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,720
The Bitcoin standard doesn't appeal to everyone.

154
00:09:54,900 --> 00:10:01,180
So I love the fact that we had the fortune of helping Larry a bit with his book during his process.

155
00:10:01,180 --> 00:10:06,760
and and larry is it's a great success the book like it's it's he's doing great with it and he's

156
00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:12,080
doing great in general and going to dc to tell politicians that they're all thieves and that they

157
00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:17,840
should app off like i love that larry is doing his thing his way and i think he reaches a completely

158
00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:24,620
different audience than than i do and i think your audience is completely different to to larry's or

159
00:10:24,620 --> 00:10:32,120
Seyfedine's or mine or anyone else's. So I just love that we're getting more and more different

160
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,460
angles, even though we're saying the same things, but with different words, I guess.

161
00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:43,220
Yeah, but it's fun to see that once someone gets started and once someone reads one book,

162
00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:47,760
they tend to read them all, right? And people have their collections and it's all the books,

163
00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:52,820
your book, Saif's book, Lynn's book, Jeff Booth's book, Larry's. It's just fun. And you're right.

164
00:10:52,820 --> 00:11:00,540
I mean, each book offers something so special and unique, and some are more academic, some are more technical, some are more philosophical.

165
00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,000
So, yeah, it's like it's great that we have so many of them out there.

166
00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:11,140
Yeah, I know we both I talked to Jeff in several times during the year.

167
00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,140
I had the pleasure of meeting him in Colombia and then later on in Helsinki.

168
00:11:15,540 --> 00:11:21,500
And he told me that he he talked to you about this book a couple of times and that you got his input on it.

169
00:11:21,500 --> 00:11:27,720
and like maybe a penny or two more dropped as they always do when you talk to Jeff because he's so

170
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:34,440
insightful right so oh yes he he had a great big impact on my life too and graciously wrote the

171
00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:39,380
forward for everything divided by 21 million and helped me helped me put that together in a coherent

172
00:11:39,380 --> 00:11:46,560
way so I'd love to hear your story about that and what's what his role in this was yeah so I'm I mean

173
00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:51,480
And I've always learned so much from every conversation and every interview that I've

174
00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:52,380
had with Jeff.

175
00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:58,480
And he has such a calm and positive way that he frames this world transition that we're

176
00:11:58,480 --> 00:11:59,080
going through.

177
00:11:59,660 --> 00:12:05,260
And so just being the longtime friend and mentor that he's been for me and how brilliant

178
00:12:05,260 --> 00:12:10,820
he is at explaining inflation and deflation, I just really wanted him to read an early

179
00:12:10,820 --> 00:12:14,340
version of the manuscript and just offer me feedback.

180
00:12:14,780 --> 00:12:15,980
And so that's what he did.

181
00:12:15,980 --> 00:12:17,820
And Lynn Alden also did that as well.

182
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:19,140
She was extremely helpful.

183
00:12:19,660 --> 00:12:21,020
Because one thing too is I just,

184
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,820
I wanted to be very accurate.

185
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,080
And sometimes when you simplify things,

186
00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:28,660
you can lose the nuance or the details

187
00:12:28,660 --> 00:12:30,160
that might be important, right?

188
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,240
And it's very hard to explain things like money printing

189
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:34,880
and how the banking system works.

190
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:36,760
People think Bitcoin's complex, right?

191
00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:38,860
When you break down how the dollar actually works

192
00:12:38,860 --> 00:12:41,000
and like all the institutions and the money printing

193
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,860
and the swaps and this and that

194
00:12:43,860 --> 00:12:45,240
between like bank reserves,

195
00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:50,780
it gets very, very complicated. And when you try to simplify it, I wanted it to both be very

196
00:12:50,780 --> 00:12:55,720
approachable, but also very factual. And so it was really important to get feedback and make sure that

197
00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:00,900
I am telling it in a way that is simple and easy to understand for the average person who maybe has

198
00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:06,880
never been exposed to financial education or engineering or anything like that, but also

199
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:13,000
doesn't lose the accuracy and the facts. And Michael Saylor also read an early manuscript.

200
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,660
So I'm just really grateful they all endorsed it.

201
00:13:15,820 --> 00:13:17,820
And their quotes are on the back of the book.

202
00:13:17,900 --> 00:13:19,500
So very humbled and grateful.

203
00:13:20,060 --> 00:13:21,940
But the process was just,

204
00:13:22,100 --> 00:13:24,040
it was a really rewarding process for me

205
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,420
because I've been a writer for so many years,

206
00:13:26,540 --> 00:13:28,020
but specifically I write scripts.

207
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,820
And I mean, you might know this as a podcast host.

208
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,960
Let's say we did our interview and then you transcribed it.

209
00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:38,740
It's like choppiness and filler words.

210
00:13:39,020 --> 00:13:41,160
And the way that you talk,

211
00:13:41,160 --> 00:14:00,486
The way you talk on TV or radio or a podcast is very different than the way you write a book So I really needed some guidance and some help turning my script writing background into something that is eloquent and articulate on a page So that was challenging but in a very very rewarding way

212
00:14:01,146 --> 00:14:08,386
And yeah, I mean, it's hard because it was so hard to squeeze in everything I wanted to in like 200 pages.

213
00:14:08,386 --> 00:14:11,986
Because Bitcoin is, you can write about it for a thousand pages, right?

214
00:14:12,046 --> 00:14:14,446
But I wanted it to be as digestible as possible too.

215
00:14:14,446 --> 00:14:20,666
Yeah, I mean, the way I see it, writing makes you a better speaker and speaking makes you a better writer.

216
00:14:21,126 --> 00:14:23,146
Like they fuel one another.

217
00:14:23,446 --> 00:14:28,486
Writing is a very good way to find a coherent thread.

218
00:14:29,006 --> 00:14:34,226
Like thoughts without writing them down are sort of like they're all over the place.

219
00:14:34,366 --> 00:14:42,306
And you sort of can connect the dots in your brain, but other people probably can't because you have no way of communicating how they all fit together.

220
00:14:42,306 --> 00:14:49,546
When you start writing it down, you sort of get this narrative structure or whatever it is, like coherency.

221
00:14:49,946 --> 00:14:50,446
Is that a word?

222
00:14:51,426 --> 00:14:56,386
You get a coherent version of what you think about things.

223
00:14:56,546 --> 00:15:00,746
And it's very good for expressing yourself in other ways, too.

224
00:15:01,326 --> 00:15:01,926
100%.

225
00:15:01,926 --> 00:15:05,906
I came from writing songs.

226
00:15:06,306 --> 00:15:09,866
I think that's the first thing I wrote, and song lyrics.

227
00:15:09,866 --> 00:15:11,966
And then that turned into tweets.

228
00:15:11,966 --> 00:15:20,006
So when I quit the last band I took seriously, I sort of needed other ways to have my creative constipation solved.

229
00:15:20,826 --> 00:15:30,226
So Twitter played a huge role because the thing I loved about that in the beginning was that the fact that you had to condense it to 140 characters,

230
00:15:30,226 --> 00:15:36,266
which made me like, it's like boiling, it's like a beef broth.

231
00:15:36,526 --> 00:15:41,926
Like you have to boil it down to its essentials and you cut out all the fluff, right?

232
00:15:41,966 --> 00:15:48,286
so you so that helped me a lot with my writing i think like initially and then but but i'm curious

233
00:15:48,286 --> 00:15:54,846
about your process in general like since you were approached by other people to write a book

234
00:15:54,846 --> 00:16:00,166
so so you get this task and then you do it but how do you do it like how do you find the time

235
00:16:00,166 --> 00:16:05,246
to write and how do you find a way to focus on this thing and not get distracted like what's

236
00:16:05,246 --> 00:16:09,866
what's your process well that's why it took me a very long time i mean this book has been years

237
00:16:09,866 --> 00:16:15,766
in the making because you are, you're busy with your full-time job. And I think what helped is

238
00:16:15,766 --> 00:16:21,366
because my job is Bitcoin, I'm constantly reading about it, writing other people's work or reading

239
00:16:21,366 --> 00:16:26,186
other people's works, talking about it. So it was always front of mind. So it really honestly

240
00:16:26,186 --> 00:16:33,346
started with an outline. I had to kind of decide how I was going to even structure the book and the

241
00:16:33,346 --> 00:16:39,986
story. And for me, that was a really exciting process because I felt and I have always felt

242
00:16:39,986 --> 00:16:45,606
that until you understand the problem, you're not going to appreciate the solution. And so I really

243
00:16:45,606 --> 00:16:51,606
wanted to have a clear story arc. That's something that I really embraced in my TV journalism life.

244
00:16:51,746 --> 00:16:58,906
And as an adjunct professor, I always believed a story arc has to be there. A strong kind of

245
00:16:58,906 --> 00:17:04,086
you know, something that pulls you in and it takes you down a journey and there's some sort

246
00:17:04,086 --> 00:17:09,706
of crisis or conflict and hopefully a resolution and like it takes you full circle. So my book

247
00:17:09,706 --> 00:17:14,786
starts with really kind of taking the reader by the hand and saying, okay, we know that something

248
00:17:14,786 --> 00:17:19,846
is wrong. We can both acknowledge something's wrong. Let's talk about the symptoms of the

249
00:17:19,846 --> 00:17:24,746
problem and let's get on the same page, no pun intended. And then I break down, how did we get

250
00:17:24,746 --> 00:17:29,626
here? What is the problem? So obviously, there's something broken in the financial system.

251
00:17:30,266 --> 00:17:34,286
Well, what is money? How does the financial system actually work? And so I go through that.

252
00:17:34,406 --> 00:17:39,426
I explain it in a very, very, very simple way. And then by the time I get to Bitcoin,

253
00:17:39,426 --> 00:17:47,526
which is not until chapter 10, you're very primed to appreciate the properties of good money and

254
00:17:47,526 --> 00:17:55,686
what can allow us to save for the future and can allow us to, I think, be kind of better humans to

255
00:17:55,686 --> 00:18:01,206
one another, if I'm being honest. I mean, part of the book is also about your time preference and

256
00:18:01,206 --> 00:18:05,806
being able to dream bigger and being able to hope and what that brings out in one another to be more

257
00:18:05,806 --> 00:18:11,406
cooperative and be more productive. And it talks about, obviously, the human rights angle of Bitcoin,

258
00:18:11,406 --> 00:18:16,566
which I think is so appealing for so many people and was the thing that got them interested in

259
00:18:16,566 --> 00:18:22,946
Bitcoin in the first place. And then it ends on a very positive note of hope. So that's the journey

260
00:18:22,946 --> 00:18:29,986
that I really wanted to go on with the reader. And it was fun just kind of testing my own

261
00:18:29,986 --> 00:18:35,626
knowledge of how do I explain things like money printing? How do I explain fractional reserve

262
00:18:35,626 --> 00:18:41,146
banking and the history of money and how we went from the gold standard to the dollar and the

263
00:18:41,146 --> 00:18:45,846
dollars of reserve currency and how that's helped us in some ways, but also hurt us. So I take you

264
00:18:45,846 --> 00:18:55,126
through all of it fantastic and uh i love to hear this because it's so similar to to my process and i

265
00:18:55,126 --> 00:19:00,706
i i in my mind for some reason i thought our processes would be very different but

266
00:19:00,706 --> 00:19:06,866
for instance in the inverse of clown world the uh after after having written sort of the bulk of

267
00:19:06,866 --> 00:19:12,886
the thing at some point i realized hang on this is like joseph campbell's hero's journey structured

268
00:19:12,886 --> 00:19:17,786
sort of but the reader is the hero so like i can structure the book in this way and like make it an

269
00:19:17,786 --> 00:19:23,506
actual hero's journey and just follow the steps and that sort of fill in the filled in the blanks

270
00:19:23,506 --> 00:19:29,886
for what what other chapters were needed yeah so so so then it became easy to write the the rest of

271
00:19:29,886 --> 00:19:35,766
the book because i knew what pieces were missing exactly so and and also this you say that you're

272
00:19:35,766 --> 00:19:41,986
like i'm curious how i would explain this or how i would explain that a lot a lot of the stuff

273
00:19:41,986 --> 00:19:47,186
especially in my older books, I just ask myself a question on top of the page and then just try to

274
00:19:47,186 --> 00:19:54,766
explain it as well as I could. To me, that's a very good writing process. And yeah, I usually

275
00:19:54,766 --> 00:19:59,626
write in the mornings before the rest of the family is up because I know that I'm not going

276
00:19:59,626 --> 00:20:03,586
to be interrupted. Not only do I not get interrupted, I know that I'm not going to get

277
00:20:03,586 --> 00:20:08,246
interrupted. And that's important to me to stay focused. How do you stay focused? Like,

278
00:20:08,246 --> 00:20:12,986
turn off all notifications and like, are you in a dark room? Like what do you do?

279
00:20:14,026 --> 00:20:17,906
Yeah. I mean, that's one of the toughest things, especially with all the stimulation we have with

280
00:20:17,906 --> 00:20:23,426
our devices and social media, because it's, it really is important to focus whether you're

281
00:20:23,426 --> 00:20:29,466
reading or writing, you just have to have some quiet space. For me, I'm a really big note taker.

282
00:20:29,626 --> 00:20:35,446
So I have, I wouldn't be able to even count how many binders I have. I take notes on a lot of

283
00:20:35,446 --> 00:20:39,946
things. I've taken notes. People make fun of me for this, but even the Bitcoin books that I've

284
00:20:39,946 --> 00:20:44,666
read. I mean, if you took out my notes for the Bitcoin standard, it's probably 30 pages worth

285
00:20:44,666 --> 00:20:49,986
of notes. So I would take my notes, my binders out. I would go through notes. I would look at

286
00:20:49,986 --> 00:20:54,646
things that I've learned and observed. I save a lot of things. I'll write notes in my phone,

287
00:20:54,646 --> 00:21:00,826
or I'll screenshot things that I thought were really interesting. And I save everything. And

288
00:21:00,826 --> 00:21:08,546
then I go through it later. And I think it helps me just kind of distill it into sort of how I best

289
00:21:08,546 --> 00:21:13,606
understand it or would want it told to me or explained to me. So that's been really helpful.

290
00:21:14,146 --> 00:21:18,066
And I mean, to your point, it's like, I mean, for me, I feel like I did a lot of work on weekends,

291
00:21:18,066 --> 00:21:22,226
like a lot of work on just weekends or late night, because during the day,

292
00:21:22,346 --> 00:21:28,426
things are super crazy with my regular work. It's hard too when you're traveling. I think that

293
00:21:28,426 --> 00:21:33,946
when you're working while traveling, it's just, it's so hard to not be distracted because something's

294
00:21:33,946 --> 00:21:39,406
always going on and hotels are not that great to work in. And if you're not in the hotel room,

295
00:21:39,406 --> 00:21:44,086
then you're in a loud lobby or coffee. Like there's always distractions, right? So I'm not

296
00:21:44,086 --> 00:21:49,606
my best worker when I'm traveling. No, same here. I would say I can't really work while traveling.

297
00:21:49,766 --> 00:21:56,326
Like I never understood how you can work in airports, like tasks that are like, for lack

298
00:21:56,326 --> 00:22:01,186
of a better word slightly retarded okay i can do them in airports but i couldn't be creative in an

299
00:22:01,186 --> 00:22:08,726
airport it just doesn't work like so i i usually take long walks to get the ideas for for for books

300
00:22:08,726 --> 00:22:15,786
and stuff do you do that at all i do some of my best thinking on walks and drives totally like i

301
00:22:15,786 --> 00:22:20,486
actually i love long drives because i just your mind goes to places and i don't know if you've

302
00:22:20,486 --> 00:22:23,446
experienced this but all of a sudden you get somewhere and you're like i don't even remember

303
00:22:23,446 --> 00:22:30,146
driving here. I was so zoned out thinking about something. No, I love that. And then I'm also

304
00:22:30,146 --> 00:22:37,226
slightly scared of it because I don't know who was driving the car. Bitcoin is all about reclaiming

305
00:22:37,226 --> 00:22:42,466
the driver's seat of your car and then you don't even know who's driving. So that's the irony of it.

306
00:22:43,046 --> 00:22:48,626
You should check out our latest sponsor, BitVault. BitVault is real hardcore Bitcoin security.

307
00:22:48,626 --> 00:22:59,266
They combine multi-sig with a time delay so that they discourage thieves from using $5, $15, $21 wrenches to bash your head in.

308
00:22:59,546 --> 00:23:06,686
This time lock function increases the risk for the thief, discourages coercion, and makes the whole act less likely to happen.

309
00:23:06,966 --> 00:23:10,066
Go to bitvault.sv right now and check out their offers.

310
00:23:10,386 --> 00:23:15,806
You can get a yearly subscription for $129, and it's a fantastic product overall.

311
00:23:16,426 --> 00:23:16,926
Brush your teeth.

312
00:23:16,926 --> 00:23:23,786
Our favorite hardware wallet is of course the Bitbox. Check out our friends at Bitbox at bitbox.swiss.

313
00:23:24,306 --> 00:23:31,786
There you'll find a bunch of different products, but the main one, the Bitbox O2 Nova with the Bitcoin firmware installed,

314
00:23:32,146 --> 00:23:38,146
is a fantastic hardware wallet and the software that comes along with it has a fantastic user interface.

315
00:23:38,426 --> 00:23:42,306
It is one of my personal favorites. It's easy to use and it's super secure.

316
00:23:42,306 --> 00:23:44,906
is my personal favorite hardware wallet.

317
00:23:45,306 --> 00:23:48,126
It's super slick, super privacy focused

318
00:23:48,126 --> 00:23:49,766
and super easy to use.

319
00:23:49,766 --> 00:23:51,446
So go to bitbox.swiss

320
00:23:51,446 --> 00:23:58,086
and use code infinity for a discount.

321
00:23:58,466 --> 00:23:59,046
Check it out now.

322
00:23:59,586 --> 00:24:02,406
So let's get into the meat of the book a bit more.

323
00:24:02,666 --> 00:24:06,166
You said you read almost all the Bitcoin books

324
00:24:06,166 --> 00:24:08,066
over and over again and took notes and blah, blah, blah.

325
00:24:08,586 --> 00:24:10,806
Did you read Austrian economics books as well?

326
00:24:10,926 --> 00:24:11,086
Yes.

327
00:24:11,086 --> 00:24:13,686
Yeah. Which ones?

328
00:24:14,166 --> 00:24:39,106
Oh, gosh. I mean, I went down a whole rabbit hole probably a year after I read most of the Bitcoin books where, I mean, obviously, it's like people like Saifedean introduced me to Austrian economists that I had never heard of. And I'm so sad that I didn't hear about them in school because I find their work really fascinating. So, you know, Rothbard and Hayek and Mises, you just go down the rabbit hole and start reading those books.

329
00:24:39,426 --> 00:24:42,786
I've really liked the works of Thomas Sowell as well.

330
00:24:42,926 --> 00:24:44,306
I mean, he's not an Austrian economist,

331
00:24:44,586 --> 00:24:46,366
but the way he explains economics,

332
00:24:46,686 --> 00:24:49,726
I've personally really found value in.

333
00:24:49,726 --> 00:24:52,526
I read books like Economics in One Lesson,

334
00:24:52,686 --> 00:24:53,846
Anatomy of the State.

335
00:24:54,326 --> 00:24:55,786
You know, some of the books were tough.

336
00:24:55,986 --> 00:24:57,606
Some of the books were not easy to read,

337
00:24:57,986 --> 00:25:00,346
but because I think I had the framework

338
00:25:00,346 --> 00:25:02,306
from the Bitcoin books,

339
00:25:02,446 --> 00:25:04,326
it was easier for me to follow them

340
00:25:04,326 --> 00:25:06,526
and to really understand why there's such an issue

341
00:25:06,526 --> 00:25:07,406
with central planning.

342
00:25:08,386 --> 00:25:11,166
And I mean, if you would have asked me like 10 years ago,

343
00:25:11,266 --> 00:25:13,226
oh, what do you think about Keynesian economics?

344
00:25:13,226 --> 00:25:15,166
I'd be like, I have no idea what you're talking about.

345
00:25:15,266 --> 00:25:16,846
Or Austrian economics, I'd be like,

346
00:25:16,906 --> 00:25:19,086
is that economics that they teach in Austria?

347
00:25:19,246 --> 00:25:20,646
I have no opinion, right?

348
00:25:21,186 --> 00:25:25,586
But it's so incredible that when you do read those works,

349
00:25:25,586 --> 00:25:31,346
it helps you frame the way that we've kind of oriented our lives

350
00:25:31,346 --> 00:25:33,686
within these economies around the world

351
00:25:33,686 --> 00:25:39,726
and how money has always been manipulated in some way. And someone has always had the ability to

352
00:25:39,726 --> 00:25:44,726
inflate the money supply. And that has always had second, third, fourth order effects that have

353
00:25:44,726 --> 00:25:50,786
impacted humans and especially the working class. And we just kind of like go from one fiat currency

354
00:25:50,786 --> 00:25:56,446
to the next and it rolls over in 100-year cycles. And what if we could have something better?

355
00:25:56,766 --> 00:26:02,086
Because obviously, if I learned all of this, but there was no Bitcoin, I would probably be

356
00:26:02,086 --> 00:26:07,846
a gold bug. And I would probably say gold is our best solution. But it has this inherent flaw that

357
00:26:07,846 --> 00:26:14,826
Lynn, I think, does such a brilliant job in Broken Money of framing it as a technology issue and how

358
00:26:14,826 --> 00:26:21,526
technology advances. At some point, you can't scale gold. You have to paper over it and abstract it

359
00:26:21,526 --> 00:26:26,446
because you can't send it across the world and have it settle. You can't easily verify it and

360
00:26:26,446 --> 00:26:33,266
transport it. And that settlement part is so difficult. So you have to paper over it,

361
00:26:33,326 --> 00:26:39,006
essentially. And that leads to all of the issues that we've had, especially when you lose the gold

362
00:26:39,006 --> 00:26:45,906
tether entirely, which we did, right? So it's like Bitcoin solved for that. It solved it. It made

363
00:26:45,906 --> 00:26:53,066
money perfect for the first time. And it allows us to have capitalism for the first time. And I

364
00:26:53,066 --> 00:26:57,866
think that that's also so important. And that's what changed my point of view really on capitalism,

365
00:26:58,286 --> 00:27:02,446
especially because, and I've shared this, you've probably heard me say it on other shows.

366
00:27:03,086 --> 00:27:07,526
When I was a reporter and I had just started my career and it was after the great financial

367
00:27:07,526 --> 00:27:13,646
crisis when my family lost everything, I was not for capitalism. I associated it with the

368
00:27:13,646 --> 00:27:20,706
problems that exist. And I thought that we have to have a way for the government to check greed,

369
00:27:20,706 --> 00:27:26,726
to check our worst impulses of greed. And I thought that capitalism was the root of a lot

370
00:27:26,726 --> 00:27:32,026
of problems. And I hear that now so much. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, I don't know if you

371
00:27:32,026 --> 00:27:36,226
know what capitalism is, right? And that's one of the things that I think the Austrian economists

372
00:27:36,226 --> 00:28:01,711
really taught me was to understand what capitalism is and appreciate the fact that we actually never lived in a world with capitalism not real capitalism We gotten close maybe sometimes but it would be a great world if we had a capitalistic form of money like Bitcoin and we allowed true value to rise to the surface and for value to accrue where it was originated and not because someone close to the money printer apparatus

373
00:28:02,832 --> 00:28:03,532
No, exactly.

374
00:28:03,792 --> 00:28:09,611
I mean, you always hear this phrase, that wasn't real communism or real communism has never been tried.

375
00:28:09,611 --> 00:28:10,532
Well, it has.

376
00:28:10,532 --> 00:28:15,552
that's the thing that has been tried the thing that hasn't been tried is real capitalism totally

377
00:28:15,552 --> 00:28:21,131
because we've always had central banks or the equivalent of them even when we didn't have

378
00:28:21,131 --> 00:28:26,871
central banks there the bankers the private bankers were also giving out more receipts for

379
00:28:26,871 --> 00:28:31,671
gold than they had gold in their vaults so we've we've had that problem for thousands of years

380
00:28:31,671 --> 00:28:38,691
there's a great book by my norwegian friend uh rune ostgård called fraud coin where he describes

381
00:28:38,691 --> 00:28:47,371
like how this coin clipping and stuff was going on like a thousand year thousand BC, like up in the Nordics.

382
00:28:47,512 --> 00:28:50,171
And it's always been there.

383
00:28:50,731 --> 00:28:52,651
So it's just this.

384
00:28:53,072 --> 00:29:01,092
And I think that is, as you said before, like it's very hard to, ironically enough, I was just on another pod saying the exact same thing.

385
00:29:01,151 --> 00:29:04,871
Like it's hard to understand the solution without first comprehending the problem.

386
00:29:04,871 --> 00:29:13,032
Right. And I think this this is absolutely the biggest hurdle because no one ever questions validity of money.

387
00:29:13,151 --> 00:29:18,391
They think money is real because they can use it to buy stuff and they don't think any further than that.

388
00:29:18,471 --> 00:29:20,971
They think, no, what are you talking about? The money is fake.

389
00:29:21,312 --> 00:29:24,411
It obviously isn't fake because I can buy things with it.

390
00:29:24,411 --> 00:29:29,151
And they don't. The thought never goes anywhere from that point.

391
00:29:29,151 --> 00:29:33,492
and the whole medium of exchange.

392
00:29:33,911 --> 00:29:39,411
Yeah, this is a pet peeve rabbit hole here,

393
00:29:39,512 --> 00:29:42,191
but I don't like the term store of value

394
00:29:42,191 --> 00:29:45,092
since value is subjective and dynamic, as we know.

395
00:29:45,092 --> 00:29:47,351
So I think the whole store of value,

396
00:29:47,471 --> 00:29:50,592
medium of exchange dichotomy is false.

397
00:29:51,072 --> 00:29:52,252
And it's created by this,

398
00:29:52,411 --> 00:29:54,131
that gold was a good store of value

399
00:29:54,131 --> 00:29:56,572
and fiat was a good medium of exchange.

400
00:29:56,572 --> 00:30:02,471
it's sort of the dichotomy isn't really there when you have perfect money because it's medium

401
00:30:02,471 --> 00:30:09,191
exchange over time and space either either you trade with your future self or or your or other

402
00:30:09,191 --> 00:30:15,851
human beings so one is over time and the other is over space and i think thinking of the two as

403
00:30:15,851 --> 00:30:23,012
separate is very dangerous and that's why why we get a lot of these fiat narratives around uh we

404
00:30:23,012 --> 00:30:28,971
we need to use Bitcoin as this or that. Well, both use cases are equally valid.

405
00:30:29,891 --> 00:30:36,691
And who's to say how many transactions are natural? I think in a Bitcoin-denominated world,

406
00:30:36,691 --> 00:30:43,292
we will have much more subscription services and one-time payments. And it's very anti-micropayments,

407
00:30:43,371 --> 00:30:51,131
really, if you think about it. Micropayments are a very fiat-y thing. You're paying a couple of

408
00:30:51,131 --> 00:30:56,012
cents to get into the bathroom in a central station somewhere. To me, that's a very Fiat-y

409
00:30:56,012 --> 00:31:00,351
thing. On a Bitcoin standard, I think we'll have fewer payments in general. What are your thoughts

410
00:31:00,351 --> 00:31:07,131
around that? Well, I think we've never had a form of money that perfectly serves both of those use

411
00:31:07,131 --> 00:31:14,411
cases, right? I mean, because gold did store value well, but you can't transport it over space very

412
00:31:14,411 --> 00:31:18,292
easily because of the issues that we raised, right? Because of its physicality, and it's very

413
00:31:18,292 --> 00:31:24,512
difficult to transport and settle. Paper money allows you to do that, but it doesn't store,

414
00:31:24,792 --> 00:31:29,951
I'll say, purchasing power very well. So the fact that you have both, I think,

415
00:31:30,292 --> 00:31:36,671
is so incredible. I explain in the book, I go into both. I talk about Bitcoin as a network and

416
00:31:36,671 --> 00:31:40,032
as a payments layer and as the internet of money. And I try to explain that simply.

417
00:31:40,592 --> 00:31:46,651
But I start with the store of value aspect because I think that is the more pressing problem. I think

418
00:31:46,651 --> 00:31:54,131
it's a greater problem today that we can't take our hard-earned time and store that energy in

419
00:31:54,131 --> 00:31:58,832
something that doesn't get diluted and lose purchasing power. That to me is the critical

420
00:31:58,832 --> 00:32:03,211
thing we need to address right away, as opposed to a lot of people, regardless of what country

421
00:32:03,211 --> 00:32:07,871
they're in and what they're actually spending. The payments problem is not as pressing to me

422
00:32:07,871 --> 00:32:14,552
as being able to store your money in something that stores its purchasing power. However,

423
00:32:14,552 --> 00:32:21,992
again with Bitcoin, you get both. You get both of the best worlds. My only approach to this,

424
00:32:22,252 --> 00:32:27,272
though, is that the payments aspect is the one that is more threatening to the institutions,

425
00:32:27,572 --> 00:32:32,411
to the banks, to the governments, right? They want to be able to print money and they want to

426
00:32:32,411 --> 00:32:39,871
be able to tax and they want to be able to maintain as much control as possible. And I feel like as

427
00:32:39,871 --> 00:32:47,552
As Bitcoiners, we will accomplish more of the world that we want to see sooner if we

428
00:32:47,552 --> 00:32:55,951
usher it in as a Trojan horse and usher it in slowly and politely and kindly, as opposed to

429
00:32:55,951 --> 00:33:00,891
getting in the face of governments and banks and saying, screw you, you're all going down.

430
00:33:01,032 --> 00:33:05,371
We're taking over. We don't need you, right? You attract more flies with honey.

431
00:33:05,371 --> 00:33:20,611
And I've really just taken that approach because, yes, Bitcoin is the perfect payments network. But we live in a world where there are some established monopolies and we want them to become Bitcoiners. I think everyone will become Bitcoiners eventually.

432
00:33:20,611 --> 00:33:25,731
And I think it's easier for us to share our message with the world when we do it in a way

433
00:33:25,731 --> 00:33:32,631
that is understanding that things have evolved in a way that's behind walled gardens.

434
00:33:32,931 --> 00:33:36,312
And to break them down, maybe we don't need nuclear weapons.

435
00:33:36,532 --> 00:33:40,752
Maybe we can knock on the door and ask to kind of work together.

436
00:33:41,072 --> 00:33:42,931
And maybe that's like rose-colored glasses.

437
00:33:43,191 --> 00:33:48,971
But I don't think that we get as far when we say very, very dramatic, hostile things

438
00:33:48,971 --> 00:33:50,552
to the institutions that exist.

439
00:33:50,611 --> 00:33:55,332
instead of just being like, they're going to need us. And we're here and we're ready to educate them.

440
00:33:55,332 --> 00:33:58,951
And we're going to start using this and we're going to fight for our ability to use it and

441
00:33:58,951 --> 00:34:03,312
fight for our freedoms and fight for our property rights. But we're also not going to say like,

442
00:34:03,651 --> 00:34:09,512
burn it all down. Because I do think that there are good, good people that work in these

443
00:34:09,512 --> 00:34:14,532
institutions that just don't understand yet, or they're not incentivized to understand it yet.

444
00:34:14,831 --> 00:34:19,331
But eventually they will. Eventually they will. We can, we can build a better world and the

445
00:34:19,331 --> 00:34:23,951
incentive system is there to transition us to Bitcoin. I just don't think we'll get there as

446
00:34:23,951 --> 00:34:30,831
quickly and as in a world that we want to live in and a transition that we would want to go through

447
00:34:30,831 --> 00:34:37,331
if we're just going to like go to war with everybody. No, I absolutely agree. A diplomatic

448
00:34:37,331 --> 00:34:42,492
route is probably a better one, even though I bash politicians all the time and stuff and

449
00:34:42,492 --> 00:34:49,751
talk shit about banks but it's mostly for fun i mean i'd say individuals is the key word there

450
00:34:49,751 --> 00:34:54,912
because all these institutions and all the states and all the institutions all the corporations

451
00:34:54,912 --> 00:35:01,731
they're made up of people so every single person in these institutions is a potential bitcoiner

452
00:35:01,731 --> 00:35:08,372
they're basically pre-coiners all of them and we can orange pill all of them and only an individual

453
00:35:08,372 --> 00:35:10,012
can actually own a Bitcoin.

454
00:35:10,211 --> 00:35:11,552
Only an individual can actually

455
00:35:11,552 --> 00:35:12,872
self-custody a Bitcoin.

456
00:35:13,671 --> 00:35:15,592
And they're not there yet,

457
00:35:15,671 --> 00:35:17,092
but they may be at some point.

458
00:35:17,171 --> 00:35:17,931
And if not them,

459
00:35:17,992 --> 00:35:18,892
then they're descendants.

460
00:35:19,532 --> 00:35:21,092
Like we're playing the long game here.

461
00:35:21,191 --> 00:35:21,492
Absolutely.

462
00:35:21,931 --> 00:35:24,231
And sometimes you see these public figures

463
00:35:24,231 --> 00:35:25,791
and they're speaking on behalf

464
00:35:25,791 --> 00:35:27,651
of a very, very powerful institution.

465
00:35:27,651 --> 00:35:30,671
And you know that maybe you disagree

466
00:35:30,671 --> 00:35:32,392
or you don't trust what they're saying.

467
00:35:32,592 --> 00:35:34,992
If you had the ability to sit down

468
00:35:34,992 --> 00:35:38,072
in a closed room with that person

469
00:35:38,072 --> 00:35:39,912
and actually have a heart to heart with them,

470
00:35:40,471 --> 00:35:43,431
I feel like you can get on a human level,

471
00:35:43,612 --> 00:35:45,751
a better understanding of where they're coming from,

472
00:35:45,831 --> 00:35:47,151
what their experience is,

473
00:35:47,151 --> 00:35:48,211
if they're willing to listen.

474
00:35:48,372 --> 00:35:49,771
Like that's actually really important, right?

475
00:35:49,791 --> 00:35:51,791
Because sometimes I think what gets frustrating

476
00:35:51,791 --> 00:35:54,512
for us Bitcoiners is we want to have these conversations

477
00:35:54,512 --> 00:35:56,151
and we want to reach out and engage.

478
00:35:56,612 --> 00:35:59,311
And oftentimes it's like the hand is stuck up to us

479
00:35:59,311 --> 00:36:01,492
and it's like, no, we don't want you at all.

480
00:36:01,971 --> 00:36:04,251
I feel like if these people sat down with us,

481
00:36:04,711 --> 00:36:07,711
whatever, you know, ivory tower they're sitting in

482
00:36:07,711 --> 00:36:10,271
and they had a real conversation about value,

483
00:36:10,412 --> 00:36:13,592
about time, about money, about opportunity, about freedom,

484
00:36:13,992 --> 00:36:16,032
they would probably be on the same page as us.

485
00:36:16,412 --> 00:36:19,691
They would probably feel and value the same things as us.

486
00:36:20,151 --> 00:36:22,492
And so I feel like that's like, how do we do that?

487
00:36:22,592 --> 00:36:24,151
How do we reach people in that way

488
00:36:24,151 --> 00:36:26,651
as opposed to all of us just like throwing,

489
00:36:26,892 --> 00:36:28,372
you know, insults publicly

490
00:36:28,372 --> 00:36:31,052
and we divide ourselves in teams

491
00:36:31,052 --> 00:36:31,971
and nothing gets said.

492
00:36:32,032 --> 00:36:33,811
We just talk past each other all the time.

493
00:36:33,831 --> 00:36:34,771
And that's what worries me

494
00:36:34,771 --> 00:36:36,412
because like we're missing them

495
00:36:36,412 --> 00:36:37,651
and they won't pick up your book.

496
00:36:37,711 --> 00:36:42,471
to read it right they won't they won't watch your show because they just assume things about you

497
00:36:42,471 --> 00:36:47,052
and i just wish we would do things that would encourage more dialogue and conversation because

498
00:36:47,052 --> 00:36:54,231
then i think we would bring more people into the bitcoin noah's ark yeah yeah absolutely have you

499
00:36:54,231 --> 00:37:01,892
read 1984 by george orwell yes my favorite part about that book is the ending where there turns

500
00:37:01,892 --> 00:37:07,892
out that there is no big brother it's just the system that makes makes the and i see a lot of

501
00:37:07,892 --> 00:37:14,791
conspiracy theories thrive within the bitcoin space like people people tend to and i like the

502
00:37:14,791 --> 00:37:20,731
diversity of ideas don't get me wrong here and you shouldn't trust the science too much but but in the

503
00:37:20,731 --> 00:37:26,811
bitcoin space there's there's a lot of people who have this or that conspiracy theory to cling on to

504
00:37:26,811 --> 00:37:31,291
and that this is obviously an evil schemer doing this or that.

505
00:37:31,552 --> 00:37:34,211
But I think that Orwell was right.

506
00:37:34,612 --> 00:37:38,412
You don't need the evil mastermind in the lair.

507
00:37:38,592 --> 00:37:42,112
You just need the flawed system to make the incentives in such a way

508
00:37:42,112 --> 00:37:47,052
that we end up chasing money and we end up in a skyscraper somewhere

509
00:37:47,052 --> 00:37:52,052
and we're really feeding the beast without knowing that that's what we're doing.

510
00:37:52,231 --> 00:37:54,412
And as you say, if we sat down with these people,

511
00:37:54,412 --> 00:37:57,852
I think we could get on the same page easily.

512
00:37:58,231 --> 00:38:00,171
People don't know that what they're doing

513
00:38:00,171 --> 00:38:01,932
is fueling something evil.

514
00:38:02,191 --> 00:38:03,811
I don't believe that.

515
00:38:04,392 --> 00:38:04,751
I agree.

516
00:38:04,932 --> 00:38:06,211
I always question,

517
00:38:06,352 --> 00:38:07,532
especially when I see leaders

518
00:38:07,532 --> 00:38:09,151
do some of the things that they do,

519
00:38:09,932 --> 00:38:13,512
is it ignorance or incompetence

520
00:38:13,512 --> 00:38:14,432
or is it malice?

521
00:38:14,872 --> 00:38:15,811
And I do think there is,

522
00:38:15,912 --> 00:38:17,932
I'm certain there are people out there

523
00:38:17,932 --> 00:38:18,872
that are bad and evil,

524
00:38:19,532 --> 00:38:21,311
but I don't think it's as many

525
00:38:21,311 --> 00:38:23,412
as there are just people who are ignorant

526
00:38:23,412 --> 00:38:27,171
to what we now know and maybe incompetent.

527
00:38:27,412 --> 00:38:28,872
And sometimes incompetent people

528
00:38:28,872 --> 00:38:32,572
get to pretty high levels of power, unfortunately.

529
00:38:32,572 --> 00:38:32,971
Yeah, no shit.

530
00:38:33,291 --> 00:38:36,432
Like we have a system that doesn't reward competence

531
00:38:36,432 --> 00:38:38,492
or merit or value right now.

532
00:38:38,671 --> 00:38:41,671
We have a system that rewards people who are insiders.

533
00:38:42,032 --> 00:38:44,992
And I just think that that's one of the best aspects

534
00:38:44,992 --> 00:38:45,492
of Bitcoin.

535
00:38:45,651 --> 00:38:48,231
I don't know why as a society,

536
00:38:48,231 --> 00:38:51,852
we're so scared now of competition, right?

537
00:38:51,852 --> 00:38:54,012
I mean, it's like we have to level the playing field.

538
00:38:54,532 --> 00:38:56,311
Like everyone has to have a trophy.

539
00:38:57,131 --> 00:38:58,992
Everyone has to start on third base.

540
00:38:59,092 --> 00:38:59,432
Why?

541
00:38:59,852 --> 00:39:01,392
I mean, I feel like one of the reasons

542
00:39:01,392 --> 00:39:04,372
why I've reached a level of confidence

543
00:39:04,372 --> 00:39:07,951
and the ability to endure difficult things

544
00:39:07,951 --> 00:39:10,171
is because I've struggled in the past

545
00:39:10,171 --> 00:39:11,631
and I've seen my family struggle

546
00:39:11,631 --> 00:39:12,992
and it has built character.

547
00:39:13,512 --> 00:39:14,352
It's that meme, right?

548
00:39:14,432 --> 00:39:16,171
Like hard times create strong men.

549
00:39:16,311 --> 00:39:17,751
Strong men create easy times.

550
00:39:17,872 --> 00:39:19,052
Easy times create weak men.

551
00:39:19,052 --> 00:39:24,691
And I think that sometimes people get into this fog of like, I'm a victim.

552
00:39:25,751 --> 00:39:29,412
You owe me some of what you earned.

553
00:39:29,532 --> 00:39:30,612
You owe it to me.

554
00:39:31,012 --> 00:39:32,852
Well, it's like, no, maybe not.

555
00:39:33,311 --> 00:39:34,271
It's not that I'm a get...

556
00:39:34,271 --> 00:39:36,912
I feel like charity should come from the private sector.

557
00:39:36,912 --> 00:39:43,092
And I actually think that we would be more incredibly charitable if we didn't feel like

558
00:39:43,092 --> 00:39:45,471
someone was taking from us all the time, right?

559
00:39:45,532 --> 00:39:48,691
Because when I'm getting taxed, I'm just like, where is this even going?

560
00:39:49,052 --> 00:39:53,112
Where's this going? I don't see the value for this. Now, do I want to help my neighbor? Absolutely.

561
00:39:53,552 --> 00:39:57,271
But I have a personal relationship with my neighbor, right? And I want to help them and

562
00:39:57,271 --> 00:40:01,992
I want them to succeed and I want my community to succeed. But when people are just taking from you

563
00:40:01,992 --> 00:40:08,311
or saying like, you owe me, I think it creates resentment from people. And I think just in

564
00:40:08,311 --> 00:40:14,331
general today, the fiat world has put so much downward pressure on the average working person

565
00:40:14,331 --> 00:40:17,771
where they play by all the rules, they do everything right, they work really hard,

566
00:40:17,771 --> 00:40:22,951
and they're still behind. And so, of course, they're like, this is unfair. And they get into

567
00:40:22,951 --> 00:40:28,971
bad moods and they might resort to things that are more aligned with short-term thinking or

568
00:40:28,971 --> 00:40:36,811
with things that aren't maybe like positive actions within their communities because they're

569
00:40:36,811 --> 00:40:42,311
just feeling so desperate. And I wonder if we had a sound money at the core of our system that

570
00:40:42,311 --> 00:40:47,932
encouraged us to provide value and to be of service to one another and actually be rewarded

571
00:40:47,932 --> 00:40:53,592
for that properly in a form of money that actually accrues value over time. How many wonderful things

572
00:40:53,592 --> 00:40:59,151
can we achieve? I mean, we've gotten this far with imperfect money. Think of how far we can go

573
00:40:59,151 --> 00:41:05,151
with perfect money that really rewards value. That's the world I want to envision and try to build.

574
00:41:05,151 --> 00:41:27,831
Yeah, the thesis with hard men create good times and hard times create good men and so on and so forth and good women. I'd like to ask you, did Bitcoin do anything to your self-confidence? Because it certainly did to mine.

575
00:41:27,831 --> 00:41:34,131
Like it changed my, the saying is, if you don't believe in yourself, no one else will.

576
00:41:34,651 --> 00:41:46,177
And there power in that I think So what your journey there Like what your experience with I mean you seem like you were pretty confident before Bitcoin too So what would you say to that

577
00:41:46,677 --> 00:41:47,037
Oh, God.

578
00:41:47,117 --> 00:41:48,477
I mean, I could write a book about that.

579
00:41:48,477 --> 00:41:56,337
I feel like the journey of confidence is one that is very layered and a little bit like a roller coaster.

580
00:41:56,697 --> 00:42:02,637
I'm really lucky that I had parents that tried to instill as much confidence in me when I was young.

581
00:42:02,637 --> 00:42:07,357
I really did grow up believing in the American dream. And to me, what that means, and I share

582
00:42:07,357 --> 00:42:10,877
this in the book, because to me, the American dream is actually something very universal,

583
00:42:11,117 --> 00:42:16,277
but we call it the American dream, which is that you can come from anywhere, any background.

584
00:42:16,397 --> 00:42:21,657
And if you work hard and if you're a good person, you can achieve anything that you want,

585
00:42:21,897 --> 00:42:28,977
like that possibility. It's filled with hope. It's like, if I do the right things, if I work

586
00:42:28,977 --> 00:42:37,437
hard, if I get that education, if I, you know, X, Y, Z, I can achieve my dreams. I loved that

587
00:42:37,437 --> 00:42:44,337
feeling and that possibility because to me, it gave me motivation to work hard. It gave me

588
00:42:44,337 --> 00:42:49,957
motivation to strive. And for me, I really wanted to make my parents proud. I wanted to justify the

589
00:42:49,957 --> 00:42:56,237
sacrifices that they made for us to be able to come to this country. And then I felt like I started

590
00:42:56,237 --> 00:43:03,157
to lose maybe not confidence in myself, but just confidence in the system. After the great financial

591
00:43:03,157 --> 00:43:09,257
crisis, I was like, I could play by all the rules and I could be a good person and I could still

592
00:43:09,257 --> 00:43:15,577
end up with none of the things that I really want. It just gets harder and harder and I'm on

593
00:43:15,577 --> 00:43:19,977
this treadmill that just keeps getting faster and I don't know what to do. I looked at the future

594
00:43:19,977 --> 00:43:26,177
with one as one of not having a lot of hope. I don't know if I can afford a family. How am I

595
00:43:26,177 --> 00:43:30,437
going to retire? Where should I live? Can I get a house ever? So I feel like that definitely hurt

596
00:43:30,437 --> 00:43:37,857
my confidence. And working in news as a woman, it's not easy for sure. It causes you to have a

597
00:43:37,857 --> 00:43:43,997
thick skin because people say things behind screens that they might not say if they're

598
00:43:43,997 --> 00:43:48,937
standing right next to you and to your face. So that was challenging for sure because especially

599
00:43:48,937 --> 00:43:55,837
as a woman and you're working on a public-facing medium, we all have our insecurities,

600
00:43:55,837 --> 00:44:01,457
especially about our looks, things that maybe no one knows. But sometimes they'll email you or tell

601
00:44:01,457 --> 00:44:06,637
you or DM you the very thing that you're most insecure about. And they'll be like, you're this

602
00:44:06,637 --> 00:44:11,577
or you're that. And it sucks. And it sucks to read and it hurts. And you try to remember that

603
00:44:11,577 --> 00:44:16,637
that's not what matters. It's your character. It's your mind. It's your thought. It's your kindness.

604
00:44:17,297 --> 00:44:21,057
So I went through my own journeys with that as well. And then when I entered Bitcoin,

605
00:44:21,057 --> 00:44:25,497
I lost a lot of confidence in the sense that I realized I knew nothing. I knew nothing about

606
00:44:25,497 --> 00:44:29,877
money. I have to learn all of this. There are people that are so brilliant for me to be able

607
00:44:29,877 --> 00:44:36,417
to even interview them or talk to them. I have to put in the work. I got criticized. And I think that

608
00:44:36,417 --> 00:44:41,857
again, I struggled, but it helped. It really did. All the feedback, especially the criticism,

609
00:44:42,497 --> 00:44:46,077
which you tend to listen to more, right? You hear a compliment and you're like, thanks, whatever.

610
00:44:46,477 --> 00:44:51,997
But the criticism, you're like, oh my God. And that helped me too. It pushed me. It was like,

611
00:44:51,997 --> 00:44:54,957
okay, Natalie, you really have to put in the work. You really have to read these books. You

612
00:44:54,957 --> 00:44:59,577
really have to pay attention. You have to watch things. You have to read when they make these,

613
00:44:59,697 --> 00:45:04,297
when they put out legislation. Read it. Take the time and read it. Just read it.

614
00:45:04,297 --> 00:45:10,017
And it challenged me in a really constructive way so that I did feel more confident. So by the time

615
00:45:10,017 --> 00:45:15,937
I was able to go on things like news programs and talk about Bitcoin, I had gained a little bit more

616
00:45:15,937 --> 00:45:20,757
of that, my legs underneath me to be like, I do know what I'm talking about and I want to share

617
00:45:20,757 --> 00:45:25,137
it with you. I don't know everything, right? And I could still be caught kind of deer in headlights.

618
00:45:25,917 --> 00:45:31,217
But the stuff that's really important, I feel like I can communicate. And it's always a journey

619
00:45:31,217 --> 00:45:36,197
because there's always something to learn. And some questions are challenging and facing people

620
00:45:36,197 --> 00:45:41,657
that really are against Bitcoin. It can be tough. It can be tough because they'll ask things. And if

621
00:45:41,657 --> 00:45:46,837
they're so convinced that they're right, whether it's about capitalism or energy or this or that,

622
00:45:46,837 --> 00:45:52,317
sometimes it takes a bit to really try to weave your way through the arguments

623
00:45:52,317 --> 00:45:59,597
no a lot of things to unpack there you mentioned family and the american dream our parents i know

624
00:45:59,597 --> 00:46:04,457
my my dad had this he could never be wrong about anything it was that kind of boomer

625
00:46:04,457 --> 00:46:10,677
you know that and it some of that uh spilt over to to me and my brothers like we used to play a

626
00:46:10,677 --> 00:46:16,037
lot of trivia games and stuff and like it was very if there was something we didn't know we

627
00:46:16,037 --> 00:46:20,757
immediately looked it up because we didn't want to he put it like i don't want anyone to be able to

628
00:46:20,757 --> 00:46:26,517
ever sit on me and like lecture me about anything i want to know if everything like be more well-read

629
00:46:26,517 --> 00:46:33,817
than anyone else in the room and that sort of caught on i hope maybe maybe not to a big enough

630
00:46:33,817 --> 00:46:41,157
extent but but also like what you said about the american dream being universal i i i totally agree

631
00:46:41,157 --> 00:46:46,537
with that and i think people who believe in themselves to that extent that if you work hard

632
00:46:46,537 --> 00:46:54,057
and you're motivated you really can get as far as you want regardless of where you're born you can

633
00:46:54,057 --> 00:46:59,777
just move and do the things like and it's the it's the literal opposite of the victim mentality

634
00:46:59,777 --> 00:47:04,877
yeah it's it's it's the inverse of the victim mentality like i'm not going to be a victim

635
00:47:04,877 --> 00:47:10,897
i don't care if i lose my legs to land mine like i'm still not the fucking victim i'm going to

636
00:47:10,897 --> 00:47:18,257
fucking win like and i love that attitude and we if if everyone if everyone had it we wouldn't have

637
00:47:18,257 --> 00:47:23,417
any problems in the world i think like because everyone would be working hard for everyone else

638
00:47:23,417 --> 00:47:29,297
and trade and everything would be fine well and you brought up something important you know we

639
00:47:29,297 --> 00:47:33,717
are all built we all come with like different skill sets we come from different backgrounds

640
00:47:33,717 --> 00:47:36,437
We can't choose where we're born or who our parents are.

641
00:47:37,017 --> 00:47:42,517
But today especially, most people around the world have one of these.

642
00:47:43,097 --> 00:47:48,917
It's actually the statistics of how many people have phones, have internet phones around the

643
00:47:48,917 --> 00:47:53,157
world was shocking to me because I thought it would be maybe lower, right?

644
00:47:53,217 --> 00:47:58,377
But it's literally billions of people have access to more information than generations

645
00:47:58,377 --> 00:48:01,337
ago, like the highest of society did.

646
00:48:01,337 --> 00:48:01,657
Yeah.

647
00:48:01,657 --> 00:48:09,197
Yeah. Anyone can start to learn. And I feel like reading is something that is undervalued and

648
00:48:09,197 --> 00:48:14,817
underappreciated. Reading teaches us so much, being able to critically think. And you don't

649
00:48:14,817 --> 00:48:20,257
necessarily even need school in order to start to do that and start to learn. And it makes me sad

650
00:48:20,257 --> 00:48:24,417
when I see the statistics of just about literacy. Because you can talk about financial literacy,

651
00:48:24,417 --> 00:48:29,517
that's one thing that's on a higher level, but just literacy in general. A lot of people can't

652
00:48:29,517 --> 00:48:36,377
read past a certain elementary grade level. And you can't achieve very much, I think, in life if

653
00:48:36,377 --> 00:48:41,737
you're not a reader. And anyone can do this. I feel like that's what is kind of a leveler. If

654
00:48:41,737 --> 00:48:47,797
people want more equality, it's like, well, I do think that everyone needs an opportunity to get

655
00:48:47,797 --> 00:48:54,917
an education. And we do have that. People can start to learn skills and trades and history and

656
00:48:54,917 --> 00:49:00,017
and start to critically think. And that's the base layer for me in terms of like education and

657
00:49:00,017 --> 00:49:08,417
knowledge. And I just wish more people appreciated that because that would help so many things in

658
00:49:08,417 --> 00:49:15,017
society. I feel like if we had a more informed public that cared and that read and paid attention

659
00:49:15,017 --> 00:49:22,977
to what was happening, then we would have a public that might fight against something like tyranny

660
00:49:22,977 --> 00:49:27,017
as opposed to be led like sheep into the slaughterhouse.

661
00:49:27,497 --> 00:49:29,737
And that's, I think, something that Henry Ford called out, right?

662
00:49:29,777 --> 00:49:32,437
Like if the people understood how the banking system worked,

663
00:49:32,637 --> 00:49:34,177
we would have a revolution by morning.

664
00:49:34,417 --> 00:49:35,077
Revolution before dawn.

665
00:49:35,117 --> 00:49:35,417
We don't.

666
00:49:35,457 --> 00:49:36,377
Before dawn, yeah.

667
00:49:36,477 --> 00:49:41,537
And you might be born the tallest and the most beautiful

668
00:49:41,537 --> 00:49:45,457
and primed to be the best athlete, but maybe not.

669
00:49:45,537 --> 00:49:48,277
But all of us can start to work our minds and read.

670
00:49:48,377 --> 00:49:52,417
I feel like that's a muscle that we can all use no matter where we are.

671
00:49:52,417 --> 00:49:54,077
And I just, I wish more people would read.

672
00:49:54,877 --> 00:49:57,437
Maybe you should read, write a book called reading is for everyone.

673
00:49:57,557 --> 00:50:00,957
But then again, the people who couldn't read, couldn't read it.

674
00:50:01,017 --> 00:50:02,717
So it was kind of redundant.

675
00:50:03,217 --> 00:50:03,477
Anyway.

676
00:50:03,717 --> 00:50:04,017
Yeah.

677
00:50:04,017 --> 00:50:10,037
I think it's a huge problem that people compare themselves to other, to their peers, right?

678
00:50:10,177 --> 00:50:14,717
Instead of comparing themselves to their past selves, which is all that matters.

679
00:50:14,857 --> 00:50:19,737
Like if you're going to compare yourself to anything, like, am I doing better today than

680
00:50:19,737 --> 00:50:20,157
yesterday?

681
00:50:20,157 --> 00:50:22,057
Like, that's, that's the only thing that matters.

682
00:50:22,057 --> 00:50:30,537
like comparing yourself to others it's just completely it's a red herring at best like it

683
00:50:30,537 --> 00:50:36,977
will give you no greater satisfaction with your life because there's always someone taller someone

684
00:50:36,977 --> 00:50:43,777
more beautiful someone more athletic someone smarter someone wiser you you can't like but

685
00:50:43,777 --> 00:50:53,497
i mean if if you compare yourself to your to your previous self though you can you can certainly see

686
00:50:53,497 --> 00:51:00,337
and if you have one set more than last year you're an absolute winner yeah yeah yeah and the most

687
00:51:00,337 --> 00:51:05,477
interesting people i've met are honestly the most well-read people like and and you can see it in

688
00:51:05,477 --> 00:51:10,717
our space too when you talk to some of these amazing minds you're like that person like

689
00:51:10,717 --> 00:51:16,117
Preston. Preston has read every book under the sun. Michael Saylor has read every book under the sun.

690
00:51:16,857 --> 00:51:22,877
Lin Alde. When you talk to these people, you know how much they've explored. And it's not just been

691
00:51:22,877 --> 00:51:28,977
in their own ecosystem of what they believe just to reinforce whatever. No, they've branched out

692
00:51:28,977 --> 00:51:35,617
into all sorts of different areas. Lin loves sci-fi. Preston loves reading about the brain.

693
00:51:35,617 --> 00:51:39,977
Like, it's just so cool that people are interested and explore and learn.

694
00:51:40,097 --> 00:51:43,397
And I think learners, like lifelong learners, are the most interesting people.

695
00:51:44,397 --> 00:51:44,557
Yeah.

696
00:51:44,717 --> 00:51:57,997
I mean, having an inquisitive mind can be annoying at some times because you need to look everything up and be like, maybe sometimes you're too curious, but it's also very rewarding.

697
00:51:58,237 --> 00:51:59,577
I mean, how else?

698
00:52:00,797 --> 00:52:02,637
Better than watching Kim Kardashian.

699
00:52:02,777 --> 00:52:03,657
Yeah, yeah.

700
00:52:03,657 --> 00:52:07,817
I wouldn't know how to not feed my brain with information at all times.

701
00:52:07,817 --> 00:52:09,277
I don't know how people do that.

702
00:52:09,677 --> 00:52:12,197
There's always something running in the background.

703
00:52:12,537 --> 00:52:19,137
And sure, I mean, we all have our different areas of expertise and no one can know everything.

704
00:52:19,537 --> 00:52:24,657
But my dad always used to say it's better to be a complete idiot than a...

705
00:52:26,317 --> 00:52:32,277
There's no real good English word for this, but it's like an idiot within your specific field.

706
00:52:32,277 --> 00:52:34,237
that only knows one thing.

707
00:52:34,317 --> 00:52:35,617
It's better to be a complete idiot

708
00:52:35,617 --> 00:52:37,537
than the idiot who only knows one thing.

709
00:52:37,537 --> 00:52:41,037
Yeah, I tend to agree.

710
00:52:42,937 --> 00:52:45,737
If you want to find local Bitcoin communities,

711
00:52:45,997 --> 00:52:47,857
other Bitcoiners, Bitcoin merchants,

712
00:52:48,057 --> 00:52:49,617
and Bitcoin events in your area,

713
00:52:49,877 --> 00:52:51,237
there's no better way to do that

714
00:52:51,237 --> 00:52:52,937
than through the Orange Pill app.

715
00:52:53,377 --> 00:52:53,957
Wait a minute.

716
00:52:54,257 --> 00:52:55,637
It's not the Orange Pill app anymore.

717
00:52:55,817 --> 00:52:56,997
It's Club Orange.

718
00:52:57,337 --> 00:52:59,197
Club Orange is an omni app

719
00:52:59,197 --> 00:53:00,717
that includes a lot of features,

720
00:53:00,717 --> 00:53:07,157
including a list of events, a wallet where you can send and receive sats over the Lightning

721
00:53:07,157 --> 00:53:12,917
Network. You can even geosap areas so you can send sats to a whole bunch of people in one single

722
00:53:12,917 --> 00:53:17,897
area. You can also tap sap while you're chatting to someone, which is a new feature that I don't

723
00:53:17,897 --> 00:53:23,277
believe exists anywhere else. Overall, a fantastic app for connecting Bitcoiners all around the world.

724
00:53:23,517 --> 00:53:29,237
So go to cluborange.org and sign up today. You won't regret it. It's not just a gay dating app,

725
00:53:29,237 --> 00:53:30,577
It's everything else too.

726
00:53:31,137 --> 00:53:32,197
You can use it.

727
00:53:32,937 --> 00:53:33,877
Forget about that.

728
00:53:34,337 --> 00:53:34,997
Go and sign up.

729
00:53:35,637 --> 00:53:37,137
cluborange.org

730
00:53:37,137 --> 00:53:39,737
If you want to really secure your Bitcoin,

731
00:53:39,957 --> 00:53:41,437
you should check out the Bitcoin Advisor.

732
00:53:41,817 --> 00:53:43,817
They have never lost a single set

733
00:53:43,817 --> 00:53:46,577
and they take care of your stack together with you.

734
00:53:46,777 --> 00:53:47,897
They can't use your stack.

735
00:53:47,997 --> 00:53:48,617
That's impossible.

736
00:53:49,057 --> 00:53:51,257
But they can help you with inheritance planning.

737
00:53:51,357 --> 00:53:53,357
They can help you huddle the Bitcoin long-term.

738
00:53:53,637 --> 00:53:56,257
So go to thebitcoinadvisor.com to find out more.

739
00:53:56,697 --> 00:53:57,217
And brush your teeth.

740
00:53:57,217 --> 00:54:10,857
Yeah. So is there, would you say that there's anything in your book that is your like original idea, like a thesis that is you don't find in other Bitcoin books?

741
00:54:10,857 --> 00:54:31,557
That's a good question. I think that one thing that I wanted to share was just a little bit of my personal journey into this whole space because I relate to so many people who are struggling today and who are skeptical about Bitcoin.

742
00:54:31,557 --> 00:54:38,617
and I tried to just demystify all the things that I worried about when I was first entering the space.

743
00:54:38,617 --> 00:54:46,717
So it's not so much that I guess it's very new, but just that I tried to make Bitcoin something that

744
00:54:46,717 --> 00:54:53,117
anyone feels like they can be empowered by and that it doesn't matter what they studied,

745
00:54:53,257 --> 00:54:57,917
it doesn't matter what their job is, and it doesn't matter how technical or not they think

746
00:54:57,917 --> 00:55:03,037
they are, it's something that really they can take seriously and embrace and start to learn

747
00:55:03,037 --> 00:55:09,797
at this point. It's just like a very welcoming book. And as far as, I mean, everyone has their

748
00:55:09,797 --> 00:55:14,577
own way of kind of explaining inflation and analogies. I hope that people find something

749
00:55:14,577 --> 00:55:20,997
new in the analogies that I make. I have analogies to inflation and I use the Monopoly game as a

750
00:55:20,997 --> 00:55:26,517
reference and just different things that hopefully will help people. I use different analogies when

751
00:55:26,517 --> 00:55:28,557
when it comes to learning about Bitcoin mining

752
00:55:28,557 --> 00:55:30,017
and the difficulty adjustment.

753
00:55:30,017 --> 00:55:32,097
So maybe there's something new, but I don't know.

754
00:55:32,097 --> 00:55:33,257
It's just, I feel like, I feel like

755
00:55:33,303 --> 00:55:36,343
a lot of the same things just said a little differently.

756
00:55:37,063 --> 00:55:40,543
A couple of funny asides here about the Monopoly game.

757
00:55:40,543 --> 00:55:46,603
Like if you have one of the first 50 editions of that game that was ever printed,

758
00:55:47,383 --> 00:55:51,123
the dollars in the in-game dollars are worth more than real dollars.

759
00:55:51,923 --> 00:55:52,723
No way.

760
00:55:52,923 --> 00:55:54,183
Yeah, I believe it.

761
00:55:54,283 --> 00:55:55,883
It's just insane.

762
00:55:56,523 --> 00:56:02,263
And also the fact that the rules of Monopoly explicitly say

763
00:56:02,263 --> 00:56:04,223
that if the bank runs out of money,

764
00:56:04,663 --> 00:56:07,443
just write down numbers on pieces of paper,

765
00:56:07,583 --> 00:56:08,423
print more money.

766
00:56:08,803 --> 00:56:09,083
Oh, yeah.

767
00:56:09,083 --> 00:56:10,163
I love it.

768
00:56:10,163 --> 00:56:13,163
Like, it's so...

769
00:56:13,163 --> 00:56:15,223
There are so many lessons to be learned there.

770
00:56:15,663 --> 00:56:16,023
I know.

771
00:56:16,223 --> 00:56:17,823
Well, this isn't related to Monopoly,

772
00:56:17,963 --> 00:56:19,363
but I actually just read today

773
00:56:19,363 --> 00:56:22,883
that early Lego toy employees,

774
00:56:23,243 --> 00:56:24,063
once they hit,

775
00:56:24,503 --> 00:56:26,203
I don't know if it was five or ten years

776
00:56:26,203 --> 00:56:26,903
with the company,

777
00:56:27,283 --> 00:56:29,723
they were given a Lego block

778
00:56:29,723 --> 00:56:31,683
made out of 24 karat gold,

779
00:56:31,683 --> 00:56:33,123
and it was almost an ounce.

780
00:56:33,323 --> 00:56:36,963
And now each one is worth so much.

781
00:56:37,663 --> 00:56:38,043
Yeah.

782
00:56:38,563 --> 00:56:39,043
Isn't that funny?

783
00:56:39,463 --> 00:56:40,283
Yeah, I can imagine.

784
00:56:40,783 --> 00:56:41,363
Like, yeah.

785
00:56:41,363 --> 00:56:45,503
And Lego used to be a very small company

786
00:56:45,503 --> 00:56:47,603
from a very small village in Denmark.

787
00:56:48,303 --> 00:56:48,783
Oh, really?

788
00:56:49,083 --> 00:56:49,463
Yeah.

789
00:56:49,903 --> 00:56:51,143
They in Denmark,

790
00:56:51,323 --> 00:56:53,723
I don't know how many inhabitants they have now,

791
00:56:53,883 --> 00:56:55,103
but when Lego started,

792
00:56:55,243 --> 00:56:56,763
it's just a couple of thousand, I believe.

793
00:56:57,643 --> 00:56:58,243
I like Lego.

794
00:56:58,243 --> 00:57:00,403
It's a pretty cool story.

795
00:57:00,563 --> 00:57:01,343
Yeah, I like Lego.

796
00:57:01,343 --> 00:57:05,783
I love Legos. Yeah. So I grew up with an older brother and he's quite a bit older than me.

797
00:57:06,283 --> 00:57:13,043
And so I always wanted a reason for him to want to spend time with me. So I wanted an excuse to

798
00:57:13,043 --> 00:57:17,703
be close to him. So I wanted to play with his toys. I wanted to watch the movies he watched.

799
00:57:17,763 --> 00:57:23,303
So I'm so into his generation of movies and music. And I'll never forget he had Legos and

800
00:57:23,303 --> 00:57:28,763
I would play with them even though it wasn't like, I guess, I loved my dolls too, but I loved his

801
00:57:28,763 --> 00:57:34,363
legos because i was like oh i want to i want to be cool like my brother and you know lego is a good

802
00:57:34,363 --> 00:57:39,283
bitcoin analogy because it's backwards compatible it has never been hard forked like it's always

803
00:57:39,283 --> 00:57:47,903
it has only been soft forked that's true those golden legos they a modern lego would attach to it

804
00:57:47,903 --> 00:57:56,163
yeah that's true cool and and the word lego it's danish it literally means play good or play nice

805
00:57:56,163 --> 00:58:04,403
oh really yeah i didn't know that that's cool yeah the league is like a child's play and go is like

806
00:58:04,403 --> 00:58:11,063
oh that's cool i didn't know that see i learned something new no legos are fantastic they're

807
00:58:11,063 --> 00:58:16,323
getting more expensive though when you see them in airports and stuff which is i don't see legos

808
00:58:16,323 --> 00:58:20,823
very often except for in the airport i mean when the kids were younger they played with them of

809
00:58:20,823 --> 00:58:26,483
course and i remember my son could just sit on for hours on end and build something and it's

810
00:58:26,483 --> 00:58:33,303
beautiful everything's getting more expensive and lower in quality and i didn't understand why until

811
00:58:33,303 --> 00:58:38,363
bitcoin no because you were using the wrong denominator and if you're using the correct one

812
00:58:38,363 --> 00:58:44,023
you can see that everything is actually becoming more cheap like becoming cheaper every day just

813
00:58:44,023 --> 00:58:46,943
have to view the world through the correct lens, right?

814
00:58:48,323 --> 00:58:48,543
Yeah.

815
00:58:49,603 --> 00:58:50,043
Yeah.

816
00:58:50,283 --> 00:58:53,023
So we've chatted for about an hour.

817
00:58:53,323 --> 00:58:56,543
Is there anything we haven't talked about that you want to talk about?

818
00:58:56,703 --> 00:58:57,863
Like, can you think of anything?

819
00:58:58,523 --> 00:59:01,503
I see your beautiful YouTube placard there behind you.

820
00:59:01,603 --> 00:59:02,083
What is that?

821
00:59:02,083 --> 00:59:03,623
Like 100,000 subscribers?

822
00:59:03,803 --> 00:59:04,283
What is it?

823
00:59:04,283 --> 00:59:05,103
A million views?

824
00:59:05,463 --> 00:59:06,823
100,000 subscribers.

825
00:59:07,103 --> 00:59:07,283
Yeah.

826
00:59:07,403 --> 00:59:09,783
I mean, the next plaque up, it's a big one.

827
00:59:09,883 --> 00:59:10,903
It's like a big jump.

828
00:59:11,423 --> 00:59:13,463
They give you one at, I think, a million after this.

829
00:59:13,463 --> 00:59:15,083
So it's far, far away.

830
00:59:15,083 --> 00:59:19,723
I have like 220,000 subscribers, but it was such an honor.

831
00:59:19,723 --> 00:59:19,963
Yeah.

832
00:59:19,963 --> 00:59:26,003
When I got that, I mean, I believe me, I never, I never set out to be a content creator.

833
00:59:26,003 --> 00:59:27,523
I didn't think it was possible.

834
00:59:27,563 --> 00:59:38,254
In fact if anything it was kind of like I probably saw it the way so many people see Bitcoin I was like well I too late All the podcasts are out there All the YouTubers are already doing their thing

835
00:59:38,434 --> 00:59:40,974
I just started my podcast just for fun and as a hobby.

836
00:59:40,974 --> 00:59:45,094
And I would have never in my wildest dreams thought that I could build something that

837
00:59:45,094 --> 00:59:49,234
means so much to me that feels so special and where I feel so rewarded.

838
00:59:49,614 --> 00:59:50,454
And I'm so grateful.

839
00:59:51,114 --> 00:59:54,534
There's so many things that Bitcoin has given me that I never expected.

840
00:59:54,674 --> 00:59:56,034
And I'm just so grateful.

841
00:59:56,974 --> 00:59:57,994
No, well deserved.

842
00:59:58,094 --> 00:59:59,594
Like you deserve all of it.

843
00:59:59,714 --> 01:00:12,314
Like you really put in the work and you have a unique, you have unique communication skills that most people in the Bitcoin space are like light years away from most people.

844
01:00:12,854 --> 01:00:17,914
And I have a theory that the earlier you were into Bitcoin, the more disagreeable you were.

845
01:00:17,914 --> 01:00:27,454
So, so you're like, so in the beginning, in the beginning, you get your Greg Maxwell's and your Nick Sawas and stuff and, and, and, and your Luke Dashers.

846
01:00:27,454 --> 01:00:37,654
And further along, you get slightly more agreeable people and you get my generation, which is still kind of disagreeable, but slightly more agreeable.

847
01:00:38,054 --> 01:00:48,534
And then as you go further, you get your Nathalie's and your Joe Nakamoto's and stuff that are much more agreeable and much better at communication in general than the early boys.

848
01:00:48,534 --> 01:00:54,574
And we sort of needed them to get this don't trust, verify attitude into our minds.

849
01:00:54,574 --> 01:00:59,714
And then we're the ones that are now a decade later, or I'm not in that.

850
01:00:59,834 --> 01:01:05,754
I'm sort of in the middle, but people like you can communicate these thoughts to other people.

851
01:01:05,874 --> 01:01:07,634
So I think it all serves a function.

852
01:01:07,754 --> 01:01:08,974
It's the vision of labor.

853
01:01:09,194 --> 01:01:10,374
It's how it's supposed to be.

854
01:01:11,414 --> 01:01:12,794
Well, I appreciate that.

855
01:01:12,874 --> 01:01:14,714
Yeah, I mean, I always wanted to be a storyteller.

856
01:01:14,874 --> 01:01:15,414
I did.

857
01:01:15,494 --> 01:01:17,254
And I share a little bit of that in the book.

858
01:01:18,074 --> 01:01:23,034
But it was interesting, too, because when I was working in media, I never thought that

859
01:01:23,034 --> 01:01:28,454
TV would be disrupted by the internet. I would have probably studied something different just

860
01:01:28,454 --> 01:01:35,094
because there was so much change in the decade, the 2010s in terms of just Facebook all of a

861
01:01:35,094 --> 01:01:39,954
sudden and Twitter and citizen journalists and everyone starting their own shows. That's something

862
01:01:39,954 --> 01:01:45,154
I never, ever anticipated. And I think a lot of people didn't either. But it's so interesting to

863
01:01:45,154 --> 01:01:49,594
now look back because it's like fiat does put you in this frame of mind of just being a good

864
01:01:49,594 --> 01:01:55,254
soldier, you know, nine to five, work your job, get your 401k, did it like, just don't think

865
01:01:55,254 --> 01:02:02,254
outside the box. And it wasn't until Bitcoin that I realized I could kind of specialize in something

866
01:02:02,254 --> 01:02:07,834
and that that would be marketable. And I can, I can take my background of communication and

867
01:02:07,834 --> 01:02:13,434
storytelling and apply it to this passion that I have that I think is so important and is an

868
01:02:13,434 --> 01:02:17,974
incredible mission. And I could create a business out of that. And that's what, so I really like,

869
01:02:17,974 --> 01:02:24,734
I use my story just to encourage people because I think everyone has something that they're really passionate about and maybe really good at.

870
01:02:24,734 --> 01:02:31,374
And they can apply it to Bitcoin and serve the community and serve the mission of educating people.

871
01:02:31,614 --> 01:02:35,794
And we just need so many more people to share this message with the world.

872
01:02:36,674 --> 01:02:38,134
Yeah, and the Bitcoin is money.

873
01:02:38,334 --> 01:02:39,054
You can use it.

874
01:02:39,174 --> 01:02:42,014
You can exchange it for every other good and service in the world.

875
01:02:42,474 --> 01:02:47,114
So start accepting Bitcoin for your goods and services and then you're in the game.

876
01:02:47,114 --> 01:02:54,874
this reminds me there's another funny coincidence here like the the i i was in high school when the

877
01:02:54,874 --> 01:03:01,854
internet started taking off right around 95 96 something and you get your netscape navigators

878
01:03:01,854 --> 01:03:07,714
and and all of this like internet is new google is not there any yet there is no social media or

879
01:03:07,714 --> 01:03:14,474
anything and i sort of saw this i remember like thinking holy shit all the computers in the world

880
01:03:14,474 --> 01:03:21,034
are going to be connected now. This is going to change everything. But not acting on it

881
01:03:21,034 --> 01:03:27,534
because you're a confused teenager, lazy and not really knowing what to do with your life.

882
01:03:27,534 --> 01:03:40,565
So I didn go into computing or programming or anything even though I made little computer games and stuff as a child and grew up with my Commodore 64 and did all these things

883
01:03:40,565 --> 01:03:48,645
But then pursued a different career and walked in my father's footsteps, maybe, and studied to be a sea captain instead.

884
01:03:49,185 --> 01:03:56,065
At some point, I started studying electronics engineering, but I was so tired of school that I chose this other path.

885
01:03:56,065 --> 01:04:02,005
And when Bitcoin came along like 20 years down the line, I had that same feeling again.

886
01:04:02,125 --> 01:04:08,245
Like I saw something that was going to change the world, but this time I was not going to miss the fucking train.

887
01:04:08,365 --> 01:04:12,545
I was going to act because nothing will stop this train as we know.

888
01:04:12,965 --> 01:04:15,905
So I had to get on this specific train.

889
01:04:16,025 --> 01:04:17,865
Now I was not going to miss my shot this time.

890
01:04:18,025 --> 01:04:20,465
Like here I have asymmetric information.

891
01:04:20,625 --> 01:04:24,225
I know something that I see something that other people don't.

892
01:04:24,225 --> 01:04:32,285
Can you, was that a similar, of course, my story is different from yours, but did you have a similar feeling when you, when you, when you saw it?

893
01:04:32,325 --> 01:04:34,165
Like, why aren't anyone else?

894
01:04:34,825 --> 01:04:36,885
Why isn't anyone else seeing this thing?

895
01:04:37,645 --> 01:04:43,805
Well, I definitely feel that way in terms of just my, my peers and the people I used to work with in news.

896
01:04:43,805 --> 01:04:48,385
I think it's because I reported on all the problems so closely.

897
01:04:48,945 --> 01:04:52,865
So I was, I was in the middle of the problem every day.

898
01:04:52,865 --> 01:05:02,065
And my specialty, like the thing I loved to do journalism on the most was public corruption investigations.

899
01:05:02,505 --> 01:05:04,725
I was just like, I want to hold these people accountable.

900
01:05:05,065 --> 01:05:06,705
I just, it really angered.

901
01:05:06,745 --> 01:05:09,025
Corruption really angered me.

902
01:05:09,225 --> 01:05:10,825
I don't know why that was like my thing.

903
01:05:11,045 --> 01:05:15,425
That was my beat for most of my reporter jobs.

904
01:05:16,065 --> 01:05:21,125
And so it's like I saw the problem so clearly and so many of my colleagues did too.

905
01:05:21,125 --> 01:05:35,005
And when I saw Bitcoin, when the veil was taken out from over my eyes, I was like, oh my gosh, this is why the problem exists. This is what the problem actually is. This is a solution. Like, hello, like everybody, you know, look, look, it's this.

906
01:05:35,005 --> 01:05:52,565
And I think it's what's wild to me is that people who have looked at Bitcoin a little bit could be like, no, no, this is like nothing. I don't need to pay attention to this. And that's what I've experienced because obviously I do have people, not all my friends, because I've certainly gotten a lot of my friends into Bitcoin, which makes me really happy.

907
01:05:52,565 --> 01:06:04,625
But there's definitely been people that I've worked with or that have been in some of my life experiences where I've shared the message with them and they still dismiss it and they think I'm crazy or something that I've devoted my life to this.

908
01:06:04,705 --> 01:06:07,825
And I'm like, how do you not see this yet?

909
01:06:07,925 --> 01:06:08,405
I don't know.

910
01:06:08,945 --> 01:06:10,245
So maybe my book will help.

911
01:06:10,325 --> 01:06:11,045
I'll send them my book.

912
01:06:11,525 --> 01:06:13,185
But yeah, it's just sometimes shocking.

913
01:06:13,485 --> 01:06:17,985
And yeah, to your point, I didn't want to miss out because I feel like this is so positive.

914
01:06:17,985 --> 01:06:31,985
I spent the last 10 years reporting on the worst sides of humanity, everything from corruption to mass shootings to just the worst things. The news van doesn't show up unless something terrible happened.

915
01:06:31,985 --> 01:06:39,985
and bitcoin gave me such positivity like such hope and this ability to think that things are

916
01:06:39,985 --> 01:06:46,785
going to be so much better if we just embrace this as opposed to if you know a world where

917
01:06:46,785 --> 01:06:51,405
we just keep fighting and we keep feeling divided and feeling like we're not valued

918
01:06:51,405 --> 01:06:55,545
and that's why i think it's so important to teach people because i don't i don't think people are

919
01:06:55,545 --> 01:06:59,665
bad maybe there are some bad apples out there but i really think that at the core people are just

920
01:06:59,665 --> 01:07:06,865
frustrated resentful they don't know what to do they're blaming themselves they're they're in

921
01:07:06,865 --> 01:07:11,945
victim mentalities and they need hope they need empowerment and that's what bitcoin represents

922
01:07:11,945 --> 01:07:22,165
yeah bitcoin is hope i mean it's it's 100 true i i rewrote the praxeology book a couple of months

923
01:07:22,165 --> 01:07:26,325
back and re-edited and made it more into a textbook and i added three more chapters

924
01:07:26,325 --> 01:07:39,276
And the last chapter is called What About the Roads And in this chapter I use the shawshank redemption as the analogy so you seen the movie right where i haven no i talked on my list i need to see it now

925
01:07:39,276 --> 01:07:44,556
so anyway the movie is about being institutionalized basically so that they're prisoners

926
01:07:44,556 --> 01:07:50,616
and there's this guy the the protagonist is called andy dufresne played by tim robbins

927
01:07:50,616 --> 01:07:57,596
and his best friend red is played by morgan freeman and morgan freeman warns andy that

928
01:07:57,596 --> 01:08:03,536
hope is a dangerous thing because all it will lead to is you being disappointed and a miserable life

929
01:08:03,536 --> 01:08:10,096
and there's one of their friends another inmate gets out of prison at 90 years old and he hangs

930
01:08:10,096 --> 01:08:15,776
himself two weeks later because he just can't handle the outside world he's used to his three

931
01:08:15,776 --> 01:08:21,796
free meals a day and every every rule and stuff and uh while the story is playing out and there's

932
01:08:21,796 --> 01:08:27,756
a lot of intrigues and this and that and he slowly but surely digs a tunnel out of the prison with a

933
01:08:27,756 --> 01:08:34,116
teaspoon literally so it takes him a decade to dig himself out of prison because he never lost hope

934
01:08:34,116 --> 01:08:40,616
and that's that's the the message of the movie and the message i want to convey in the book is

935
01:08:40,616 --> 01:08:47,676
exactly that the hope is an is the rational choice because the shawshank walls are only there

936
01:08:47,676 --> 01:08:55,436
if we allow them to be if if we let the totalitarians and the the the bad apples

937
01:08:55,436 --> 01:09:04,936
rule our lives then then they've won if if we give in so so you the you're gonna die anyway

938
01:09:04,936 --> 01:09:09,916
so you might as well live with hope and you might as well be hopeful and you might as well

939
01:09:09,916 --> 01:09:17,656
live i act as if bitcoin exists and i i'm gonna keep doing so because it does so yeah yeah

940
01:09:17,656 --> 01:09:18,636
Well said.

941
01:09:20,136 --> 01:09:23,676
Natalie, it has been an absolute pleasure to talk to you again.

942
01:09:24,336 --> 01:09:26,356
I don't know when we last met.

943
01:09:26,676 --> 01:09:27,596
New Year's Eve, probably.

944
01:09:28,096 --> 01:09:31,376
We'll see where we see each other next.

945
01:09:31,536 --> 01:09:34,796
I don't know where or when, but I'm looking forward to it.

946
01:09:34,796 --> 01:09:37,136
I mean, keep up all the good work.

947
01:09:37,616 --> 01:09:37,956
You too.

948
01:09:38,476 --> 01:09:39,936
Where can people get the book?

949
01:09:40,096 --> 01:09:41,316
Where can they buy it for Bitcoin?

950
01:09:41,756 --> 01:09:44,156
Well, it's available right now at every bookstore.

951
01:09:44,316 --> 01:09:46,796
I went through a publisher, so we're still figuring out

952
01:09:46,796 --> 01:09:50,676
accepting Bitcoin because that was really important to me. So I did tell them I really

953
01:09:50,676 --> 01:09:56,276
want to be able to accept Bitcoin. It's a traditional publisher. So we need to figure

954
01:09:56,276 --> 01:10:00,536
out those rails for them because I don't think they've accepted Bitcoin for any book before.

955
01:10:00,676 --> 01:10:05,116
So we will be the first. So that's important. It will be available for Bitcoin just right now,

956
01:10:05,116 --> 01:10:09,376
if you want to pre-order it, all the traditional bookstores. The publisher is out of the UK,

957
01:10:09,596 --> 01:10:12,036
actually. So if you're watching this, you're in Europe or you're listening,

958
01:10:12,036 --> 01:10:18,096
You definitely can get it at bookstores in Europe as well or on Amazon, Barnes & Noble if you're here in America.

959
01:10:18,736 --> 01:10:20,856
But yeah, we will figure out a way to accept Satoshis.

960
01:10:21,456 --> 01:10:27,556
Yes, we helped Larry with that. Larry's book is available for Satoshis on our Bitcoin Infinity website.

961
01:10:28,096 --> 01:10:32,336
So yeah, I don't know how this works when you're working with such a big publisher.

962
01:10:32,576 --> 01:10:37,976
Then it might be trickier, but if we can help, I'll be super happy to help.

963
01:10:37,976 --> 01:10:48,336
Well, thank you. I mean, we might start a movement for them, right? Maybe they'll accept Bitcoin for all their books after me. So we're working on it. We've got the initial seeds planted.

964
01:10:50,316 --> 01:11:01,596
Sounds great. Anyway, thank you so much for this conversation. I enjoyed it a lot. I hope you did too. And yeah, good luck with the book. Bitcoin is for everyone and Bitcoin is hope.

965
01:11:02,016 --> 01:11:03,076
Thank you so much.

966
01:11:03,076 --> 01:11:05,936
Don't stop believing.

967
01:11:05,936 --> 01:11:08,236
This has been the Bitcoin Infinity Show.

968
01:11:08,236 --> 01:11:09,236
Thanks for listening.

969
01:11:09,236 --> 01:11:11,676
Like, subscribe, brush your teeth and all of that.

970
01:11:11,676 --> 01:11:13,756
And thank you, Natalie.

971
01:11:13,756 --> 01:11:15,896
Thank you.

972
01:11:15,896 --> 01:11:16,476
Thanks so much.