1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,041 Bitcoin mining is probably 2 00:00:01,041 --> 00:00:02,125 the biggest catalyst for 3 00:00:02,125 --> 00:00:02,791 why governments 4 00:00:02,791 --> 00:00:03,708 are starting to take the club 5 00:00:03,708 --> 00:00:04,166 more seriously 6 00:00:04,166 --> 00:00:04,833 on the continent. 7 00:00:04,833 --> 00:00:05,666 They started realizing 8 00:00:05,666 --> 00:00:06,833 that this whole mechanism 9 00:00:06,833 --> 00:00:07,583 of bootstrapping 10 00:00:07,583 --> 00:00:08,458 energy production 11 00:00:08,458 --> 00:00:09,416 by having a buyer first 12 00:00:09,416 --> 00:00:10,541 demand has solved 13 00:00:10,541 --> 00:00:11,458 all the issues that we've had 14 00:00:11,458 --> 00:00:12,083 for decades 15 00:00:12,083 --> 00:00:13,250 in terms of electrification. 16 00:00:13,250 --> 00:00:14,083 So if I was to die 17 00:00:14,083 --> 00:00:15,125 and be brought back again, 18 00:00:15,125 --> 00:00:15,958 and I had to choose 19 00:00:15,958 --> 00:00:16,666 where I'd be born, 20 00:00:16,666 --> 00:00:17,625 I still want to be born 21 00:00:17,625 --> 00:00:18,500 in Nigeria again. 22 00:00:18,500 --> 00:00:20,000 I guess this energy about us 23 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:20,750 when it comes to 24 00:00:20,750 --> 00:00:21,625 being on your feet 25 00:00:21,625 --> 00:00:22,500 and trying to do things 26 00:00:22,500 --> 00:00:23,125 for yourself 27 00:00:23,125 --> 00:00:23,916 as a lot of things 28 00:00:23,916 --> 00:00:24,291 don't work. 29 00:00:24,291 --> 00:00:24,791 So typically 30 00:00:24,791 --> 00:00:25,291 a lot of people 31 00:00:25,291 --> 00:00:26,125 are brought up 32 00:00:26,125 --> 00:00:27,333 to be a bit 33 00:00:27,333 --> 00:00:28,583 more like grit 34 00:00:28,583 --> 00:00:29,541 and kind of ambition 35 00:00:29,541 --> 00:00:30,208 because you're forced 36 00:00:30,208 --> 00:00:31,291 into that circumstance. 37 00:00:31,291 --> 00:00:32,500 Most people here in Europe 38 00:00:32,500 --> 00:00:34,041 aren't aware of how much 39 00:00:34,041 --> 00:00:35,333 the banks 40 00:00:35,333 --> 00:00:35,791 and central 41 00:00:35,791 --> 00:00:37,166 banks of the Western world 42 00:00:37,166 --> 00:00:38,125 have been screwing 43 00:00:38,125 --> 00:00:39,083 you guys over. 44 00:00:39,083 --> 00:00:40,041 There's this 45 00:00:40,041 --> 00:00:41,208 obvious opportunity 46 00:00:41,208 --> 00:00:42,625 for Africans potential 47 00:00:42,625 --> 00:00:42,958 where it's 48 00:00:42,958 --> 00:00:44,541 been completely extracted. 49 00:00:44,541 --> 00:00:45,125 But internally, 50 00:00:45,125 --> 00:00:45,833 there are a lot of folks 51 00:00:45,833 --> 00:00:46,583 that masquerade 52 00:00:46,583 --> 00:00:46,875 as trying 53 00:00:46,875 --> 00:00:47,750 to help the continent. 54 00:00:47,750 --> 00:00:48,250 But really, 55 00:00:48,250 --> 00:00:48,750 what they're doing 56 00:00:48,750 --> 00:00:50,333 is using Africa as this 57 00:00:50,333 --> 00:00:51,916 marketing campaign for them. 58 00:00:51,916 --> 00:00:52,500 And the reason 59 00:00:52,500 --> 00:00:53,166 some personally 60 00:00:53,166 --> 00:00:54,833 are get into all the rooms 61 00:00:54,833 --> 00:00:55,291 and places 62 00:00:55,291 --> 00:00:56,458 where folks make decisions 63 00:00:56,458 --> 00:00:56,875 about where 64 00:00:56,875 --> 00:00:57,750 they're extracting 65 00:00:57,750 --> 00:00:58,833 resources from Africa. 66 00:01:02,625 --> 00:01:03,166 Abubakar. 67 00:01:03,166 --> 00:01:04,083 Welcome to the 68 00:01:04,083 --> 00:01:05,208 Bitcoin Infinity Show. 69 00:01:05,208 --> 00:01:07,083 Thanks for joining us. 70 00:01:07,083 --> 00:01:09,083 Thanks so much for having me. 71 00:01:09,083 --> 00:01:09,541 Yeah, great 72 00:01:09,541 --> 00:01:10,916 to see you again, Abubakar. 73 00:01:10,916 --> 00:01:12,875 We've run into one another 74 00:01:12,875 --> 00:01:13,750 in a couple of 75 00:01:13,750 --> 00:01:15,333 conferences here and there. 76 00:01:15,333 --> 00:01:17,333 During the last year 77 00:01:17,333 --> 00:01:18,833 and I remember the first, 78 00:01:18,833 --> 00:01:19,500 the first time 79 00:01:19,500 --> 00:01:20,750 I heard of you was, 80 00:01:20,750 --> 00:01:21,875 during the week 81 00:01:21,875 --> 00:01:23,166 where we formed the 82 00:01:23,166 --> 00:01:25,500 the Free Madera organization. 83 00:01:25,500 --> 00:01:26,666 So there was 84 00:01:26,666 --> 00:01:27,541 there were all of these 85 00:01:27,541 --> 00:01:28,125 big shots, 86 00:01:28,125 --> 00:01:30,125 like Jeff and Larry and Greg 87 00:01:30,125 --> 00:01:32,541 talking about this boy genius 88 00:01:32,541 --> 00:01:35,666 from Nigeria and, Yeah. 89 00:01:35,750 --> 00:01:37,625 So so you yeah, 90 00:01:37,625 --> 00:01:39,083 you have a very interesting 91 00:01:39,083 --> 00:01:39,833 background story. 92 00:01:39,833 --> 00:01:43,416 You you, became a Bitcoin 93 00:01:43,416 --> 00:01:44,625 core contributor 94 00:01:44,625 --> 00:01:46,166 at an early age. 95 00:01:46,166 --> 00:01:47,291 I mean, we're 96 00:01:47,291 --> 00:01:48,000 very eager 97 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,375 to hear your story. 98 00:01:49,375 --> 00:01:51,333 Not only the Tldr, but like, 99 00:01:51,333 --> 00:01:52,625 maybe the 100 00:01:52,625 --> 00:01:55,625 the, the l, did read, 101 00:01:55,750 --> 00:01:56,083 you know, 102 00:01:57,208 --> 00:01:57,958 so let's start from 103 00:01:57,958 --> 00:01:58,708 the top, please. 104 00:01:58,708 --> 00:01:59,541 And and tell us 105 00:01:59,541 --> 00:02:01,166 about yourself. 106 00:02:01,166 --> 00:02:01,916 Yeah. For sure. 107 00:02:01,916 --> 00:02:03,916 I think 108 00:02:03,916 --> 00:02:05,041 just to give more context, 109 00:02:05,041 --> 00:02:07,833 all started mostly 2017 ish. 110 00:02:07,833 --> 00:02:08,541 And that was about the 111 00:02:08,541 --> 00:02:09,541 same time at, 112 00:02:09,541 --> 00:02:10,000 the price 113 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:10,791 rally was just 114 00:02:10,791 --> 00:02:11,875 getting to that point. 115 00:02:11,875 --> 00:02:13,083 And I think 116 00:02:13,083 --> 00:02:14,125 one of the main things 117 00:02:14,125 --> 00:02:14,458 as well, 118 00:02:14,458 --> 00:02:15,333 that caught my attention 119 00:02:15,333 --> 00:02:15,833 at that point, 120 00:02:15,833 --> 00:02:16,416 reading up about 121 00:02:16,416 --> 00:02:19,416 baseline was kind of the, 122 00:02:19,500 --> 00:02:20,500 the wars that were happening 123 00:02:20,500 --> 00:02:21,208 at the time 124 00:02:21,208 --> 00:02:22,500 for SegWit and all that. 125 00:02:22,500 --> 00:02:24,333 So that was an interesting 126 00:02:24,333 --> 00:02:25,458 cultural, 127 00:02:25,458 --> 00:02:26,833 cause phenomenon 128 00:02:26,833 --> 00:02:27,375 that was going on 129 00:02:27,375 --> 00:02:28,291 within the Bitcoin space 130 00:02:28,291 --> 00:02:29,791 about redefining what bitcoin 131 00:02:29,791 --> 00:02:31,541 is potentially the future 132 00:02:31,541 --> 00:02:32,791 and kind of where 133 00:02:32,791 --> 00:02:33,625 to pick in terms 134 00:02:33,625 --> 00:02:34,250 of the next steps 135 00:02:34,250 --> 00:02:34,791 for Bitcoin. 136 00:02:34,791 --> 00:02:35,750 So for me, 137 00:02:35,750 --> 00:02:36,666 that was the hurdle 138 00:02:36,666 --> 00:02:37,541 of understanding 139 00:02:37,541 --> 00:02:38,583 what the hell this is. 140 00:02:38,583 --> 00:02:40,500 And then it's harder 141 00:02:40,500 --> 00:02:41,125 given the fact 142 00:02:41,125 --> 00:02:42,250 there's so much 143 00:02:42,250 --> 00:02:43,416 I would say, both information 144 00:02:43,416 --> 00:02:45,958 and misinformation on Exxon 145 00:02:45,958 --> 00:02:47,333 at the time. Twitter. 146 00:02:47,333 --> 00:02:49,875 So at the point I was 147 00:02:49,875 --> 00:02:50,500 just a year 148 00:02:50,500 --> 00:02:51,458 after I graduated 149 00:02:51,458 --> 00:02:51,875 high school, 150 00:02:51,875 --> 00:02:53,583 so we had a lot of time 151 00:02:53,583 --> 00:02:54,041 on my hand. 152 00:02:54,041 --> 00:02:55,000 And the thinking for me 153 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,000 then was the strategy 154 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,375 I had was to take a year out 155 00:02:58,375 --> 00:02:59,208 and then 156 00:02:59,208 --> 00:02:59,958 potentially figure out 157 00:02:59,958 --> 00:03:00,458 what exactly 158 00:03:00,458 --> 00:03:01,291 I could do with my life. 159 00:03:01,291 --> 00:03:02,625 The intention was to go in 160 00:03:02,625 --> 00:03:04,791 and study architecture, 161 00:03:04,791 --> 00:03:05,458 and then that morphed 162 00:03:05,458 --> 00:03:06,208 into engineering 163 00:03:06,208 --> 00:03:06,833 based on the reading 164 00:03:06,833 --> 00:03:07,291 I was doing. 165 00:03:07,291 --> 00:03:07,833 And then, 166 00:03:07,833 --> 00:03:08,583 suffice to say, 167 00:03:08,583 --> 00:03:10,208 by the end of 2017, 168 00:03:10,208 --> 00:03:11,458 I realized that there's 169 00:03:11,458 --> 00:03:12,750 a lot more to 170 00:03:12,750 --> 00:03:13,375 to figure out 171 00:03:13,375 --> 00:03:14,583 about myself specifically. 172 00:03:14,583 --> 00:03:15,833 So by 2018, 173 00:03:15,833 --> 00:03:16,750 I started teaching myself 174 00:03:16,750 --> 00:03:17,166 how to code 175 00:03:17,166 --> 00:03:18,500 as a result of Bitcoin, 176 00:03:18,500 --> 00:03:19,583 mostly because I didn't know 177 00:03:19,583 --> 00:03:20,500 what I was reading. 178 00:03:20,500 --> 00:03:21,125 And for me, 179 00:03:21,125 --> 00:03:23,208 the thinking was simple that 180 00:03:23,208 --> 00:03:23,583 I don't know 181 00:03:23,583 --> 00:03:24,208 what I'm reading, 182 00:03:24,208 --> 00:03:26,291 which is highly, technical. 183 00:03:26,291 --> 00:03:26,875 And the idea 184 00:03:26,875 --> 00:03:27,791 should be teach myself 185 00:03:27,791 --> 00:03:28,500 that the technical 186 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:29,833 things that are missing out. 187 00:03:29,833 --> 00:03:30,750 So I said to myself, 188 00:03:30,750 --> 00:03:32,125 how to program, 189 00:03:32,125 --> 00:03:33,375 specifically things around 190 00:03:33,375 --> 00:03:34,375 computers, compilers, 191 00:03:34,375 --> 00:03:35,333 all of that. 192 00:03:35,333 --> 00:03:36,750 So I got me into 193 00:03:36,750 --> 00:03:37,708 a bunch of projects, really, 194 00:03:37,708 --> 00:03:38,375 and an open 195 00:03:38,375 --> 00:03:39,250 source specifically. 196 00:03:39,250 --> 00:03:41,583 So cut up a small toy 197 00:03:41,583 --> 00:03:42,500 programing language 198 00:03:42,500 --> 00:03:43,250 based off of a book 199 00:03:43,250 --> 00:03:44,125 called Quality 200 00:03:44,125 --> 00:03:45,166 Programing Interpreter, 201 00:03:45,166 --> 00:03:45,833 something like that 202 00:03:45,833 --> 00:03:46,708 by Robert Nystrom, 203 00:03:46,708 --> 00:03:48,125 which is an insane book 204 00:03:48,125 --> 00:03:50,041 if anyone has already had. 205 00:03:50,041 --> 00:03:50,875 And the idea by 206 00:03:50,875 --> 00:03:52,500 the end of 2018 was to start 207 00:03:52,500 --> 00:03:53,041 understanding the 208 00:03:53,041 --> 00:03:53,875 technical aspects. 209 00:03:53,875 --> 00:03:55,166 So at that point 210 00:03:55,166 --> 00:03:56,125 I was pretty conversant 211 00:03:56,125 --> 00:03:56,666 with Python, 212 00:03:56,666 --> 00:03:57,958 a couple of languages. 213 00:03:57,958 --> 00:03:59,125 My 2019 was 214 00:03:59,125 --> 00:04:00,250 when I realized that Bitcoin 215 00:04:00,250 --> 00:04:01,291 is a proper protocol. 216 00:04:01,291 --> 00:04:02,041 So I started 217 00:04:02,041 --> 00:04:03,458 looking at the GitHub 218 00:04:03,458 --> 00:04:04,333 and I think they had this 219 00:04:04,333 --> 00:04:05,458 October fest thing, 220 00:04:05,458 --> 00:04:06,666 which is pretty popular 221 00:04:06,666 --> 00:04:07,625 for open source projects. 222 00:04:07,625 --> 00:04:09,625 But in October in 2019, 223 00:04:09,625 --> 00:04:10,750 and right about that 224 00:04:10,750 --> 00:04:11,375 same month, 225 00:04:11,375 --> 00:04:12,750 I think I saw a pull request 226 00:04:12,750 --> 00:04:14,708 by another major developer 227 00:04:14,708 --> 00:04:16,000 who became like this. 228 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:16,500 At that point, 229 00:04:16,500 --> 00:04:17,333 the first Bitcoin 230 00:04:17,333 --> 00:04:17,958 Core computer 231 00:04:17,958 --> 00:04:19,666 from our side of the world. 232 00:04:19,666 --> 00:04:20,875 And it was interesting for me 233 00:04:20,875 --> 00:04:21,833 because I was like, okay, 234 00:04:21,833 --> 00:04:22,916 that actually means 235 00:04:22,916 --> 00:04:24,166 that as possible, 236 00:04:24,166 --> 00:04:24,833 I'll like, you know, 237 00:04:24,833 --> 00:04:25,041 like, 238 00:04:25,041 --> 00:04:25,708 let me just scour 239 00:04:25,708 --> 00:04:26,875 the repo and see what, 240 00:04:26,875 --> 00:04:27,416 what I could 241 00:04:27,416 --> 00:04:28,500 contribute to it. 242 00:04:28,500 --> 00:04:29,708 And I found this pretty. 243 00:04:29,708 --> 00:04:31,166 Now it's a trivial change 244 00:04:31,166 --> 00:04:31,833 in my opinion, 245 00:04:31,833 --> 00:04:32,958 but at that point 246 00:04:32,958 --> 00:04:34,166 I thought I was doing 247 00:04:34,166 --> 00:04:34,583 pretty much 248 00:04:34,583 --> 00:04:36,333 the the huge 249 00:04:36,333 --> 00:04:37,708 task undertaking, 250 00:04:37,708 --> 00:04:38,333 and I was pretty much 251 00:04:38,333 --> 00:04:39,416 the change to the guy. 252 00:04:39,416 --> 00:04:40,916 So at the time, 253 00:04:40,916 --> 00:04:41,875 I really hadn't compiled 254 00:04:41,875 --> 00:04:42,666 core before that. 255 00:04:42,666 --> 00:04:44,458 So you got the PR 256 00:04:44,458 --> 00:04:45,541 involved, me open, 257 00:04:45,541 --> 00:04:46,000 actually 258 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,125 compiling core, 259 00:04:47,125 --> 00:04:48,208 getting into the nitty gritty 260 00:04:48,208 --> 00:04:49,916 about the protocol itself, 261 00:04:49,916 --> 00:04:51,041 specifically looking at 262 00:04:51,041 --> 00:04:52,208 how to actually make changes 263 00:04:52,208 --> 00:04:53,583 to pull requests 264 00:04:53,583 --> 00:04:54,750 or trading 265 00:04:54,750 --> 00:04:55,833 a bunch of other PRS to see 266 00:04:55,833 --> 00:04:57,166 what the culture was like. 267 00:04:57,166 --> 00:04:58,583 And then by 2020 268 00:04:58,583 --> 00:04:59,541 was kind of got merged. 269 00:04:59,541 --> 00:05:00,375 And then ever 270 00:05:00,375 --> 00:05:01,000 since then, it's 271 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:02,083 been like further 272 00:05:02,083 --> 00:05:02,791 entrenching myself 273 00:05:02,791 --> 00:05:03,750 into the Bitcoin space. 274 00:05:03,750 --> 00:05:04,250 And at that point, 275 00:05:04,250 --> 00:05:05,875 like college didn't become, 276 00:05:05,875 --> 00:05:07,375 you know, a huge priority 277 00:05:07,375 --> 00:05:09,625 because my thinking was, 278 00:05:09,625 --> 00:05:10,541 this is what I want to do 279 00:05:10,541 --> 00:05:11,416 with the rest of my life. 280 00:05:11,416 --> 00:05:12,416 And then 281 00:05:12,416 --> 00:05:14,208 I see roughly the same year 282 00:05:14,208 --> 00:05:14,791 when I 283 00:05:14,791 --> 00:05:15,750 started Recursive 284 00:05:15,750 --> 00:05:16,333 Capital as well, 285 00:05:16,333 --> 00:05:17,916 and then 2021 286 00:05:17,916 --> 00:05:18,583 did some more work 287 00:05:18,583 --> 00:05:19,708 on protocol development, 288 00:05:19,708 --> 00:05:20,333 started Carlo 289 00:05:20,333 --> 00:05:21,708 with Bernard, 290 00:05:21,708 --> 00:05:23,500 Carlino, a bunch of folks, 291 00:05:23,500 --> 00:05:25,333 and then Petrus came along. 292 00:05:25,333 --> 00:05:26,791 So since 2021 293 00:05:26,791 --> 00:05:27,333 to date, it's 294 00:05:27,333 --> 00:05:28,166 just been a lot 295 00:05:28,166 --> 00:05:28,875 more responsibility 296 00:05:28,875 --> 00:05:30,625 to use over the years, 297 00:05:30,625 --> 00:05:31,708 which has further entrenched 298 00:05:31,708 --> 00:05:32,583 both my conviction 299 00:05:32,583 --> 00:05:33,083 for Bitcoin, 300 00:05:33,083 --> 00:05:34,083 but also the reason why 301 00:05:34,083 --> 00:05:34,500 I continue 302 00:05:34,500 --> 00:05:35,541 to stay in the Bitcoin 303 00:05:35,541 --> 00:05:36,541 space earlier, 304 00:05:36,541 --> 00:05:37,083 why I feel 305 00:05:37,083 --> 00:05:38,666 this is such a huge thing 306 00:05:38,666 --> 00:05:39,500 that I could do with my life, 307 00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:40,500 as opposed to other things 308 00:05:42,166 --> 00:05:43,291 as super cool. 309 00:05:43,291 --> 00:05:44,416 I mean, 310 00:05:44,416 --> 00:05:45,416 you grew, 311 00:05:45,416 --> 00:05:46,250 you were born 312 00:05:46,250 --> 00:05:47,416 and grew up in Nigeria, 313 00:05:47,416 --> 00:05:48,375 is that right? 314 00:05:48,375 --> 00:05:49,458 Yeah, yeah. 315 00:05:49,458 --> 00:05:52,583 In Lagos or in in Kaduna. 316 00:05:52,583 --> 00:05:53,583 So it's an hour 317 00:05:53,583 --> 00:05:54,375 away from the capital 318 00:05:54,375 --> 00:05:55,125 up north, right. 319 00:05:55,125 --> 00:05:58,125 All right, all right. 320 00:05:58,458 --> 00:05:59,666 And this is so 321 00:05:59,666 --> 00:06:01,250 it's like the, the, 322 00:06:01,250 --> 00:06:02,958 the last place on Earth 323 00:06:02,958 --> 00:06:04,375 where you'd expect 324 00:06:04,375 --> 00:06:05,791 to find a Bitcoin 325 00:06:05,791 --> 00:06:06,625 core developer. 326 00:06:06,625 --> 00:06:07,416 But like this is 327 00:06:07,416 --> 00:06:08,250 this just shows 328 00:06:08,250 --> 00:06:09,208 the power of the, 329 00:06:09,208 --> 00:06:09,833 the network 330 00:06:09,833 --> 00:06:11,583 where we're at everywhere, 331 00:06:11,583 --> 00:06:12,458 you know, 332 00:06:12,458 --> 00:06:13,541 and, yeah, 333 00:06:13,541 --> 00:06:14,708 I visited Nigeria 334 00:06:14,708 --> 00:06:16,250 when I was 18 and, 335 00:06:16,250 --> 00:06:18,250 it was here in Lagos 336 00:06:18,250 --> 00:06:19,291 and because my 337 00:06:19,291 --> 00:06:20,541 dad worked there. 338 00:06:20,541 --> 00:06:21,708 So I was there for a week, 339 00:06:21,708 --> 00:06:24,708 which was a surreal week for, 340 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,416 an 18 year old, absolutely. 341 00:06:31,458 --> 00:06:31,750 No. 342 00:06:31,750 --> 00:06:32,333 So, so, 343 00:06:32,333 --> 00:06:33,333 so how was growing 344 00:06:33,333 --> 00:06:35,458 up in Nigeria and like, the 345 00:06:35,458 --> 00:06:36,083 can you tell us 346 00:06:36,083 --> 00:06:36,833 a bit about that? 347 00:06:36,833 --> 00:06:37,708 And like, 348 00:06:37,708 --> 00:06:39,750 how how did you find 349 00:06:39,750 --> 00:06:40,916 Bitcoin in the first place? 350 00:06:40,916 --> 00:06:41,833 I mean, this whole 351 00:06:42,916 --> 00:06:43,916 the, the story 352 00:06:43,916 --> 00:06:44,750 you told sort of 353 00:06:44,750 --> 00:06:46,333 started at the, 354 00:06:46,333 --> 00:06:48,583 the midpoint. 355 00:06:48,583 --> 00:06:49,916 So, so, so give us, 356 00:06:49,916 --> 00:06:51,375 give us the even longer 357 00:06:51,375 --> 00:06:53,916 version if you, if you will. 358 00:06:53,916 --> 00:06:54,541 Yeah for sure. 359 00:06:54,541 --> 00:06:55,291 I mean, growing up in 360 00:06:55,291 --> 00:06:56,125 Nigeria is pretty 361 00:06:56,125 --> 00:06:57,000 much it makes, 362 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:57,875 I mean 363 00:06:57,875 --> 00:06:59,333 the countless 364 00:06:59,333 --> 00:07:00,958 200 other million stories 365 00:07:00,958 --> 00:07:02,208 really from the country you 366 00:07:02,208 --> 00:07:03,375 our population, 367 00:07:03,375 --> 00:07:05,291 it's a mix of like, 368 00:07:05,291 --> 00:07:06,125 I'll say this way 369 00:07:06,125 --> 00:07:06,833 faster than the 370 00:07:06,833 --> 00:07:07,708 brought back again. 371 00:07:07,708 --> 00:07:08,583 And I had to choose 372 00:07:08,583 --> 00:07:09,208 where I'd be born. 373 00:07:09,208 --> 00:07:10,208 I still want to be born 374 00:07:10,208 --> 00:07:11,458 in Nigeria again, 375 00:07:11,458 --> 00:07:12,958 but to be Nigerian again, 376 00:07:12,958 --> 00:07:13,791 I think it's it's 377 00:07:13,791 --> 00:07:14,458 a weird mix. 378 00:07:14,458 --> 00:07:15,083 Yes, a lot of 379 00:07:15,083 --> 00:07:16,041 economic challenges 380 00:07:16,041 --> 00:07:17,750 there, a lot of socio 381 00:07:17,750 --> 00:07:18,500 economic challenges, 382 00:07:18,500 --> 00:07:19,500 I should say. 383 00:07:19,500 --> 00:07:21,875 And I think it's interesting. 384 00:07:21,875 --> 00:07:23,625 So the culture, the people, 385 00:07:23,625 --> 00:07:24,333 the food, 386 00:07:24,333 --> 00:07:25,166 everything I think 387 00:07:25,166 --> 00:07:26,125 is probably 388 00:07:26,125 --> 00:07:27,625 one of the best in the world. 389 00:07:27,625 --> 00:07:28,375 And at the same time, 390 00:07:28,375 --> 00:07:28,833 when it comes 391 00:07:28,833 --> 00:07:30,125 to the economic indices 392 00:07:30,125 --> 00:07:31,333 and some of the social issues 393 00:07:31,333 --> 00:07:32,208 that we do have 394 00:07:32,208 --> 00:07:32,916 definitely runs 395 00:07:32,916 --> 00:07:34,166 super low around the world. 396 00:07:34,166 --> 00:07:35,416 So it's kind of a weird 397 00:07:35,416 --> 00:07:36,791 mix between 398 00:07:36,791 --> 00:07:37,250 the people 399 00:07:37,250 --> 00:07:38,291 that have so much issues 400 00:07:38,291 --> 00:07:39,333 and a lot of copying, 401 00:07:39,333 --> 00:07:40,125 which results 402 00:07:40,125 --> 00:07:41,291 in a lot of banter, 403 00:07:41,291 --> 00:07:42,750 how we have, generally 404 00:07:42,750 --> 00:07:44,375 speaking, backgrounds. 405 00:07:44,375 --> 00:07:45,333 And there's also this, 406 00:07:45,333 --> 00:07:45,833 I guess, 407 00:07:45,833 --> 00:07:46,833 this energy about us 408 00:07:46,833 --> 00:07:47,333 when it comes 409 00:07:47,333 --> 00:07:48,458 to being on your feet 410 00:07:48,458 --> 00:07:49,375 and trying to do things 411 00:07:49,375 --> 00:07:49,958 for yourself, 412 00:07:49,958 --> 00:07:51,000 because a lot of things 413 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:51,416 don't work. 414 00:07:51,416 --> 00:07:51,875 So typically 415 00:07:51,875 --> 00:07:52,375 a lot of people 416 00:07:52,375 --> 00:07:53,250 are brought up. 417 00:07:53,250 --> 00:07:54,291 Same thing in my case, 418 00:07:54,291 --> 00:07:55,375 to kind of be 419 00:07:55,375 --> 00:07:56,958 a bit more full of grit 420 00:07:56,958 --> 00:07:57,875 and kind of ambition 421 00:07:57,875 --> 00:07:58,541 because you're forced 422 00:07:58,541 --> 00:08:00,000 into that circumstance. 423 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,500 So I see with Bitcoin, 424 00:08:01,500 --> 00:08:03,458 it started in 2013, in terms 425 00:08:03,458 --> 00:08:05,458 of hearing about it first, 426 00:08:05,458 --> 00:08:06,833 and at that point I was 14. 427 00:08:06,833 --> 00:08:07,500 It was from 428 00:08:07,500 --> 00:08:08,416 some obscure video 429 00:08:08,416 --> 00:08:09,375 my brother brought back 430 00:08:09,375 --> 00:08:10,583 from YouTube. 431 00:08:10,583 --> 00:08:11,166 I was like, oh, you know, 432 00:08:11,166 --> 00:08:11,875 I've heard about this 433 00:08:11,875 --> 00:08:12,750 Bitcoin thing. 434 00:08:12,750 --> 00:08:13,583 For context, he's 435 00:08:13,583 --> 00:08:14,416 an economics major 436 00:08:14,416 --> 00:08:15,000 at that point 437 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:15,625 was pretty much 438 00:08:15,625 --> 00:08:16,291 fully entrenched 439 00:08:16,291 --> 00:08:17,333 as a gold bug. 440 00:08:17,333 --> 00:08:18,166 So I guess 441 00:08:18,166 --> 00:08:19,083 seeing things like, 442 00:08:19,083 --> 00:08:19,916 you know, the Kaiser report 443 00:08:19,916 --> 00:08:20,375 at that time 444 00:08:20,375 --> 00:08:20,875 was probably 445 00:08:20,875 --> 00:08:21,375 one of the reasons 446 00:08:21,375 --> 00:08:22,416 why he got interested 447 00:08:22,416 --> 00:08:23,708 into Bitcoin Krispy. 448 00:08:23,708 --> 00:08:25,125 So watch the video. 449 00:08:25,125 --> 00:08:25,416 Honestly, 450 00:08:25,416 --> 00:08:25,833 I didn't know 451 00:08:25,833 --> 00:08:26,875 what that was all about 452 00:08:26,875 --> 00:08:27,250 for me. 453 00:08:27,250 --> 00:08:27,583 I thought 454 00:08:27,583 --> 00:08:29,250 it was like this math contest 455 00:08:29,250 --> 00:08:29,958 because it was trying 456 00:08:29,958 --> 00:08:30,833 to explain bitcoin 457 00:08:30,833 --> 00:08:32,125 mining in the video 458 00:08:32,125 --> 00:08:32,458 and all that. 459 00:08:32,458 --> 00:08:32,791 Okay, 460 00:08:32,791 --> 00:08:33,083 I mean, 461 00:08:33,083 --> 00:08:34,333 you could get into this 462 00:08:34,333 --> 00:08:36,000 competition and win coins, 463 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,416 whatever that means. 464 00:08:37,416 --> 00:08:39,500 And then fast forward to 465 00:08:39,500 --> 00:08:40,083 I guess 466 00:08:40,083 --> 00:08:41,833 probably early 2017 or late 467 00:08:41,833 --> 00:08:42,666 2016 was 468 00:08:42,666 --> 00:08:44,000 when he came back again. 469 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:44,500 So at that point 470 00:08:44,500 --> 00:08:45,333 he started working 471 00:08:45,333 --> 00:08:46,083 for the government. 472 00:08:46,083 --> 00:08:48,000 And the reason was because 473 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:49,458 after you finish, college 474 00:08:49,458 --> 00:08:50,125 in Nigeria, 475 00:08:50,125 --> 00:08:51,000 the idea is for you 476 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,166 to serve the country. 477 00:08:52,166 --> 00:08:53,458 So you pretty much get posted 478 00:08:53,458 --> 00:08:54,625 in some part of the country 479 00:08:54,625 --> 00:08:55,583 where you do 480 00:08:55,583 --> 00:08:56,000 either work 481 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:56,583 for the government 482 00:08:56,583 --> 00:08:57,583 or some sort of agency. 483 00:08:57,583 --> 00:08:58,333 The idea is to have 484 00:08:58,333 --> 00:09:00,041 some sort of national pride 485 00:09:00,041 --> 00:09:00,833 or interest in 486 00:09:00,833 --> 00:09:01,583 the country itself. 487 00:09:01,583 --> 00:09:02,541 So it's kind of requirements. 488 00:09:02,541 --> 00:09:03,833 And what you have for, 489 00:09:03,833 --> 00:09:04,583 other countries 490 00:09:04,583 --> 00:09:05,458 that they do mandatory 491 00:09:05,458 --> 00:09:06,166 military service 492 00:09:06,166 --> 00:09:07,166 and ceremony to service. 493 00:09:07,166 --> 00:09:07,833 We do social 494 00:09:07,833 --> 00:09:09,250 service essentially. 495 00:09:09,250 --> 00:09:10,125 So that happened. 496 00:09:10,125 --> 00:09:10,500 And then 497 00:09:10,500 --> 00:09:11,000 I think they're trying 498 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,625 to get the IBM DNA program, 499 00:09:12,625 --> 00:09:13,750 which is basically this, 500 00:09:13,750 --> 00:09:14,583 shit 501 00:09:14,583 --> 00:09:16,166 coin in-house blockchain 502 00:09:16,166 --> 00:09:17,083 that they built. 503 00:09:17,083 --> 00:09:17,625 So as part of the 504 00:09:17,625 --> 00:09:18,416 reading material, 505 00:09:18,416 --> 00:09:19,291 they are told to, 506 00:09:19,291 --> 00:09:19,500 you know, 507 00:09:19,500 --> 00:09:20,291 take a look at Bitcoin 508 00:09:20,291 --> 00:09:21,666 or some other things. 509 00:09:21,666 --> 00:09:22,625 So he started talking to me 510 00:09:22,625 --> 00:09:23,208 about Bitcoin. 511 00:09:23,208 --> 00:09:24,500 I was like, again, 512 00:09:24,500 --> 00:09:25,166 I know what this is 513 00:09:25,166 --> 00:09:25,625 all about. 514 00:09:25,625 --> 00:09:26,458 So we started 515 00:09:26,458 --> 00:09:27,708 reading what I should see 516 00:09:27,708 --> 00:09:28,791 around that time. 517 00:09:28,791 --> 00:09:29,666 That's when everything 518 00:09:29,666 --> 00:09:31,291 kind of flooding to 519 00:09:31,291 --> 00:09:32,583 guess the entire narrative 520 00:09:32,583 --> 00:09:33,291 I just painted in the 521 00:09:33,291 --> 00:09:35,500 beginning of okay, what else? 522 00:09:35,500 --> 00:09:36,791 Bitcoin specifically. 523 00:09:36,791 --> 00:09:37,208 So a lot of 524 00:09:37,208 --> 00:09:38,083 the articles are from, 525 00:09:38,083 --> 00:09:38,750 I think, hatred. 526 00:09:38,750 --> 00:09:39,875 And at that point, 527 00:09:39,875 --> 00:09:41,333 a lot of medium posts, 528 00:09:41,333 --> 00:09:42,416 a lot of Bitcoin magazine 529 00:09:42,416 --> 00:09:43,375 as well. 530 00:09:43,375 --> 00:09:44,833 A couple of other 531 00:09:44,833 --> 00:09:45,541 other things really 532 00:09:45,541 --> 00:09:46,083 that helped us 533 00:09:46,083 --> 00:09:46,708 probably Twitter, 534 00:09:46,708 --> 00:09:47,416 to be honest with you. 535 00:09:47,416 --> 00:09:48,208 I think I learned 536 00:09:48,208 --> 00:09:49,083 more about Bitcoin 537 00:09:49,083 --> 00:09:50,125 from Twitter than 538 00:09:50,125 --> 00:09:50,875 anything else. 539 00:09:51,958 --> 00:09:53,583 I guess by some of the 540 00:09:53,583 --> 00:09:54,208 reading I did 541 00:09:54,208 --> 00:09:55,083 on the technical side 542 00:09:55,083 --> 00:09:56,666 for what computers are like, 543 00:09:56,666 --> 00:09:57,500 programing and things 544 00:09:57,500 --> 00:09:57,791 like that. 545 00:09:57,791 --> 00:09:59,625 But generally speaking, 546 00:09:59,625 --> 00:10:00,625 all the insider stuff 547 00:10:00,625 --> 00:10:03,458 from folks are on Twitter. 548 00:10:03,458 --> 00:10:03,916 Yeah. Let's. 549 00:10:03,916 --> 00:10:04,458 Cool. 550 00:10:04,458 --> 00:10:05,791 Hacker, you mentioned hacker 551 00:10:05,791 --> 00:10:07,291 noon there. That's, Yeah. 552 00:10:07,291 --> 00:10:08,416 Funnily enough, that's 553 00:10:08,416 --> 00:10:09,333 where I started. 554 00:10:09,333 --> 00:10:10,916 Like I published my 555 00:10:10,916 --> 00:10:12,166 that's the first thing 556 00:10:12,166 --> 00:10:13,416 that, like, picked me up 557 00:10:13,416 --> 00:10:14,041 and published 558 00:10:14,041 --> 00:10:15,583 my articles like, 559 00:10:15,583 --> 00:10:16,375 it's like a media 560 00:10:16,375 --> 00:10:17,166 magazine, right. 561 00:10:17,166 --> 00:10:18,333 But now it's it's 562 00:10:18,333 --> 00:10:19,500 shit coin and stuff, 563 00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:21,000 and then unfortunately. 564 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:22,250 Yeah, 565 00:10:22,250 --> 00:10:23,166 like everything else 566 00:10:23,166 --> 00:10:24,083 from that era 567 00:10:24,083 --> 00:10:25,500 seems like everything 568 00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:26,583 turned into shit 569 00:10:26,583 --> 00:10:28,208 at some point, 570 00:10:28,208 --> 00:10:29,791 especially media. 571 00:10:29,791 --> 00:10:31,458 Yeah, yeah. 572 00:10:31,458 --> 00:10:31,958 No, but, 573 00:10:31,958 --> 00:10:33,458 I mean, super cool story 574 00:10:33,458 --> 00:10:35,666 and I can relate to, like, 575 00:10:35,666 --> 00:10:37,500 what I remember from Nigeria, 576 00:10:37,500 --> 00:10:38,333 what I remember 577 00:10:38,333 --> 00:10:39,375 what my dad stories 578 00:10:39,375 --> 00:10:40,458 were like, like, 579 00:10:40,458 --> 00:10:42,208 it's like these two worlds, 580 00:10:42,208 --> 00:10:42,416 right? 581 00:10:42,416 --> 00:10:43,583 Because, you, 582 00:10:43,583 --> 00:10:44,083 as you say, 583 00:10:44,083 --> 00:10:45,333 you have all the socio 584 00:10:45,333 --> 00:10:46,791 economic problems and stuff 585 00:10:46,791 --> 00:10:47,250 and you can 586 00:10:47,250 --> 00:10:48,708 literally see people, 587 00:10:48,708 --> 00:10:50,500 begging on the streets 588 00:10:50,500 --> 00:10:50,875 and stuff. 589 00:10:50,875 --> 00:10:51,916 But everyone's super 590 00:10:51,916 --> 00:10:52,708 happy everywhere, 591 00:10:52,708 --> 00:10:53,250 and everyone's 592 00:10:53,250 --> 00:10:54,375 super nice and like, 593 00:10:54,375 --> 00:10:55,750 they have these big Africa 594 00:10:55,750 --> 00:10:57,208 smiles everywhere, you know, 595 00:10:57,208 --> 00:10:59,083 and they feel very welcome. 596 00:10:59,083 --> 00:11:00,125 And at the same time, 597 00:11:00,125 --> 00:11:01,666 it's kind of chaotic. 598 00:11:01,666 --> 00:11:02,875 Yeah. 599 00:11:02,875 --> 00:11:03,750 So, 600 00:11:03,750 --> 00:11:05,541 so, 601 00:11:05,541 --> 00:11:06,333 let's get into 602 00:11:06,333 --> 00:11:07,166 the rest of the story. 603 00:11:07,166 --> 00:11:07,750 You were like, what? 604 00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:08,458 What happened 605 00:11:08,458 --> 00:11:09,708 then after 606 00:11:09,708 --> 00:11:10,583 after your Bitcoin 607 00:11:10,583 --> 00:11:12,500 Core contribution? 608 00:11:12,500 --> 00:11:14,916 You you were discovered 609 00:11:14,916 --> 00:11:16,166 by other Bitcoiners, 610 00:11:16,166 --> 00:11:18,416 I guess, and your talent was, 611 00:11:18,416 --> 00:11:20,625 is now utilized elsewhere. 612 00:11:20,625 --> 00:11:20,875 So. 613 00:11:20,875 --> 00:11:21,958 So give us the rest of 614 00:11:21,958 --> 00:11:23,125 the story. What happens next? 615 00:11:24,083 --> 00:11:24,416 Oh, yeah. 616 00:11:24,416 --> 00:11:25,166 So in 617 00:11:25,166 --> 00:11:26,500 2020 was when 618 00:11:26,500 --> 00:11:27,083 I started doing 619 00:11:27,083 --> 00:11:28,291 a lot more work around, 620 00:11:28,291 --> 00:11:29,625 protocol development. 621 00:11:29,625 --> 00:11:31,125 So specifically contributing 622 00:11:31,125 --> 00:11:32,833 to doing PR reviews, 623 00:11:32,833 --> 00:11:34,000 I think right about that 624 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:34,500 C times 625 00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:35,791 when I met other Bitcoiners 626 00:11:35,791 --> 00:11:37,166 because I retrenching myself 627 00:11:37,166 --> 00:11:37,916 in Twitter, follow 628 00:11:37,916 --> 00:11:38,791 pretty much 629 00:11:38,791 --> 00:11:39,625 anyone that I thought 630 00:11:39,625 --> 00:11:40,708 was involved with Bitcoin. 631 00:11:40,708 --> 00:11:41,666 And at that point 632 00:11:41,666 --> 00:11:42,625 my thinking was 633 00:11:42,625 --> 00:11:44,208 I get into the space 634 00:11:44,208 --> 00:11:44,666 as a pseudo 635 00:11:44,666 --> 00:11:45,708 anonymous developer. 636 00:11:45,708 --> 00:11:48,000 So at this whole cartoon, 637 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:48,916 a big character 638 00:11:48,916 --> 00:11:49,666 that I was going around 639 00:11:49,666 --> 00:11:50,250 with the. 640 00:11:50,250 --> 00:11:51,041 So, I mean, 641 00:11:51,041 --> 00:11:51,583 bunch of folks 642 00:11:51,583 --> 00:11:52,500 that knew me from that era 643 00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:53,125 probably remember 644 00:11:53,125 --> 00:11:53,666 that graphic, 645 00:11:53,666 --> 00:11:55,000 but that was the intention. 646 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,208 I clearly failed, 647 00:11:56,208 --> 00:11:57,791 but definitely learned a lot. 648 00:11:57,791 --> 00:11:59,333 So all I could be sued. 649 00:11:59,333 --> 00:11:59,791 Anonymous 650 00:11:59,791 --> 00:12:00,958 I definitely think 651 00:12:00,958 --> 00:12:02,458 could be a lot more fruitful 652 00:12:02,458 --> 00:12:03,750 that the attempt I had. 653 00:12:03,750 --> 00:12:04,375 So I met up 654 00:12:04,375 --> 00:12:04,708 with a 655 00:12:04,708 --> 00:12:05,791 whole bunch of bitcoiners. 656 00:12:05,791 --> 00:12:07,250 The primary ones were like 657 00:12:07,250 --> 00:12:08,250 folks like Bernard 658 00:12:08,250 --> 00:12:09,083 who's involved 659 00:12:09,083 --> 00:12:10,958 with, this yours. 660 00:12:10,958 --> 00:12:12,083 So you have been up. 661 00:12:12,083 --> 00:12:12,833 And at that point 662 00:12:12,833 --> 00:12:13,166 we were really 663 00:12:13,166 --> 00:12:14,125 just exchanging 664 00:12:14,125 --> 00:12:14,541 a whole bunch 665 00:12:14,541 --> 00:12:15,625 of DMs on Twitter. 666 00:12:15,625 --> 00:12:16,833 And funny enough, 667 00:12:16,833 --> 00:12:17,916 I think a year or two 668 00:12:17,916 --> 00:12:19,416 after we first 669 00:12:19,416 --> 00:12:20,833 started speaking, 670 00:12:20,833 --> 00:12:21,416 you mentioned that 671 00:12:21,416 --> 00:12:22,125 he thought of us as, 672 00:12:22,125 --> 00:12:24,000 oh, 30 year old programmer 673 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,291 that he was talking to 674 00:12:25,291 --> 00:12:26,000 and he was 675 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:26,791 also simultaneously 676 00:12:26,791 --> 00:12:27,791 talking to our older brother 677 00:12:27,791 --> 00:12:28,250 at the time. 678 00:12:28,250 --> 00:12:29,708 But I only figured that out 679 00:12:29,708 --> 00:12:30,208 like the year 680 00:12:30,208 --> 00:12:31,125 after we're talking. 681 00:12:31,125 --> 00:12:32,791 So I guess at that point, 682 00:12:32,791 --> 00:12:34,375 in terms of folks 683 00:12:34,375 --> 00:12:35,291 knowing about me 684 00:12:35,291 --> 00:12:35,875 was probably 685 00:12:35,875 --> 00:12:37,333 as a result of Bernard, 686 00:12:37,333 --> 00:12:38,458 I think he shot this, 687 00:12:38,458 --> 00:12:40,166 I think this tweet, 688 00:12:40,166 --> 00:12:42,041 when I turned 22, 689 00:12:42,041 --> 00:12:43,000 I think 690 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:43,875 saying, you know, here's 691 00:12:43,875 --> 00:12:44,791 this quote, developer 692 00:12:44,791 --> 00:12:45,541 from Nigeria, 693 00:12:45,541 --> 00:12:46,083 blah, blah, blah 694 00:12:46,083 --> 00:12:46,500 and all that. 695 00:12:46,500 --> 00:12:47,500 So I see in 696 00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:48,375 terms of spotlighting, 697 00:12:48,375 --> 00:12:49,500 I was probably that paired 698 00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:50,041 with, you know, 699 00:12:50,041 --> 00:12:50,958 I think when, 700 00:12:52,166 --> 00:12:53,208 and the folks at Paxful 701 00:12:53,208 --> 00:12:54,208 came to major as well. 702 00:12:54,208 --> 00:12:56,041 So a lot of tourism 703 00:12:56,041 --> 00:12:58,000 when I got Doxed, I guess. 704 00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,041 So a lot of that happened. 705 00:12:59,041 --> 00:13:01,125 And then I see subsequent, 706 00:13:01,125 --> 00:13:02,041 subsequent to 707 00:13:02,041 --> 00:13:03,291 that was getting involved 708 00:13:03,291 --> 00:13:03,625 in the 709 00:13:03,625 --> 00:13:04,916 to include study groups. 710 00:13:04,916 --> 00:13:06,041 So at that point 711 00:13:06,041 --> 00:13:06,791 I was post Covid, 712 00:13:06,791 --> 00:13:07,458 so they canceled 713 00:13:07,458 --> 00:13:08,333 all the in-person stuff. 714 00:13:08,333 --> 00:13:09,375 So all they had was 715 00:13:09,375 --> 00:13:09,958 a study group. 716 00:13:09,958 --> 00:13:11,041 So I got into that one, 717 00:13:11,041 --> 00:13:11,791 I think 718 00:13:11,791 --> 00:13:13,833 I think 2021 or 2025 719 00:13:13,833 --> 00:13:15,416 called for the lightning one 720 00:13:15,416 --> 00:13:16,208 and then the Bitcoin 721 00:13:16,208 --> 00:13:16,833 one afterwards. 722 00:13:16,833 --> 00:13:17,875 So I met up 723 00:13:17,875 --> 00:13:18,833 with a whole bunch of folks 724 00:13:18,833 --> 00:13:20,208 that were involved 725 00:13:20,208 --> 00:13:20,958 in the Bitcoin space. 726 00:13:20,958 --> 00:13:23,000 Folks like the merge, 727 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,625 folks like 728 00:13:24,625 --> 00:13:25,458 a bunch of folks 729 00:13:25,458 --> 00:13:26,333 actually that are on that. 730 00:13:26,333 --> 00:13:27,416 I think of it, even the folks 731 00:13:27,416 --> 00:13:28,625 from the wallet as well. 732 00:13:28,625 --> 00:13:30,375 So I that's kind of where 733 00:13:30,375 --> 00:13:31,833 I got in transfer there. 734 00:13:31,833 --> 00:13:34,000 And then I think 2022 onwards 735 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,125 after the hobby trust of 736 00:13:35,125 --> 00:13:36,541 I got to meet or bitcoin 737 00:13:36,541 --> 00:13:37,166 or especially folks 738 00:13:37,166 --> 00:13:38,125 like Carla 739 00:13:38,125 --> 00:13:38,791 and some of the others. 740 00:13:38,791 --> 00:13:39,875 So I see 741 00:13:39,875 --> 00:13:40,375 it was kind of 742 00:13:40,375 --> 00:13:41,708 an interesting tale in terms 743 00:13:41,708 --> 00:13:43,500 of talking to a few folks, 744 00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:43,916 and then that 745 00:13:43,916 --> 00:13:44,666 kind of bubbled up 746 00:13:44,666 --> 00:13:45,791 into talking 747 00:13:45,791 --> 00:13:47,125 with a lot of other folks, 748 00:13:47,125 --> 00:13:48,541 and then Carla came along 749 00:13:48,541 --> 00:13:49,375 and a whole bunch of stuff. 750 00:13:49,375 --> 00:13:51,625 So it's kind of a mix of 751 00:13:51,625 --> 00:13:53,000 further entrenching myself 752 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,166 as sort of a few 753 00:13:54,166 --> 00:13:55,166 priorities initially. 754 00:13:55,166 --> 00:13:56,083 So it 755 00:13:56,083 --> 00:13:57,208 was kind of how it evolved. 756 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:00,375 All right. 757 00:14:00,375 --> 00:14:01,708 And you're now the 758 00:14:01,708 --> 00:14:03,333 CEO of B trust. 759 00:14:03,333 --> 00:14:04,708 So what is B trust like, 760 00:14:04,708 --> 00:14:05,375 can you give us 761 00:14:05,375 --> 00:14:06,833 the Tldr on B trust 762 00:14:06,833 --> 00:14:08,166 and what you do. 763 00:14:08,166 --> 00:14:08,583 Oh yeah. 764 00:14:08,583 --> 00:14:09,208 So I mean it 765 00:14:09,208 --> 00:14:09,833 first started 766 00:14:09,833 --> 00:14:10,708 as an initiative 767 00:14:10,708 --> 00:14:13,416 by Jack really to propel 768 00:14:13,416 --> 00:14:15,416 Bitcoin development in Africa 769 00:14:15,416 --> 00:14:16,250 and India. 770 00:14:16,250 --> 00:14:16,583 Because at the 771 00:14:16,583 --> 00:14:17,458 time for context, 772 00:14:17,458 --> 00:14:18,458 there are a lot of issues 773 00:14:18,458 --> 00:14:18,916 with regards 774 00:14:18,916 --> 00:14:19,791 to both regulation 775 00:14:19,791 --> 00:14:21,250 as well as just ease of use. 776 00:14:21,250 --> 00:14:22,291 And I think 777 00:14:22,291 --> 00:14:23,333 adoption wise too, 778 00:14:23,333 --> 00:14:25,083 we were still topping 779 00:14:25,083 --> 00:14:26,125 charts put up 780 00:14:26,125 --> 00:14:27,375 with continents, actually 781 00:14:27,375 --> 00:14:29,125 continents or continent. 782 00:14:29,125 --> 00:14:30,125 And the thinking for him 783 00:14:30,125 --> 00:14:31,083 was for Bitcoin 784 00:14:31,083 --> 00:14:31,791 to get to the speed 785 00:14:31,791 --> 00:14:32,458 that it needs to be 786 00:14:32,458 --> 00:14:33,333 in terms of resilience, 787 00:14:33,333 --> 00:14:33,833 and all of that 788 00:14:33,833 --> 00:14:34,541 will need to have 789 00:14:34,541 --> 00:14:35,791 critical mass of developers 790 00:14:35,791 --> 00:14:36,541 from parts of the world 791 00:14:36,541 --> 00:14:37,750 that are using it 792 00:14:37,750 --> 00:14:38,333 and mimic 793 00:14:38,333 --> 00:14:39,000 that same sort 794 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:39,916 of anti fragility 795 00:14:39,916 --> 00:14:40,458 that we're talking 796 00:14:40,458 --> 00:14:40,958 about in terms 797 00:14:40,958 --> 00:14:41,583 just people out 798 00:14:41,583 --> 00:14:43,166 in the rugged regions. 799 00:14:43,166 --> 00:14:44,333 Just for our listeners, 800 00:14:44,333 --> 00:14:44,875 by Jack, 801 00:14:44,875 --> 00:14:45,958 you mean Jack Dorsey, 802 00:14:45,958 --> 00:14:46,583 of course. 803 00:14:46,583 --> 00:14:47,541 Oh yeah. 804 00:14:47,541 --> 00:14:49,208 Twitter clarify that. 805 00:14:49,208 --> 00:14:50,375 Yeah. 806 00:14:50,375 --> 00:14:52,708 It's and it evolved 807 00:14:52,708 --> 00:14:53,833 into essentially 808 00:14:53,833 --> 00:14:54,750 especially after 809 00:14:54,750 --> 00:14:55,916 having the board 810 00:14:55,916 --> 00:14:57,083 into a simple mission 811 00:14:57,083 --> 00:14:58,083 which is 812 00:14:58,083 --> 00:14:59,208 essentially decentralizing 813 00:14:59,208 --> 00:14:59,916 Bitcoin development 814 00:14:59,916 --> 00:15:00,833 in the Global South. 815 00:15:00,833 --> 00:15:01,583 So specifically 816 00:15:01,583 --> 00:15:02,791 regions in Africa 817 00:15:02,791 --> 00:15:03,250 and yeah, 818 00:15:03,250 --> 00:15:04,583 some of these other parts. 819 00:15:04,583 --> 00:15:05,333 And during the make up 820 00:15:05,333 --> 00:15:05,958 of the board, 821 00:15:05,958 --> 00:15:07,166 having been heavily 822 00:15:07,166 --> 00:15:08,583 Nigerian and heavily African, 823 00:15:08,583 --> 00:15:08,916 I should say, 824 00:15:08,916 --> 00:15:09,958 with all four board members, 825 00:15:09,958 --> 00:15:10,583 including myself, 826 00:15:10,583 --> 00:15:11,791 being from Africa 827 00:15:11,791 --> 00:15:12,541 made sense for us 828 00:15:12,541 --> 00:15:13,833 to start on the continent 829 00:15:13,833 --> 00:15:15,083 that were privy to, 830 00:15:15,083 --> 00:15:16,000 which is Africa, 831 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,166 and then gradually 832 00:15:17,166 --> 00:15:18,375 expand beyond that. 833 00:15:18,375 --> 00:15:19,416 So in terms of sourcing 834 00:15:19,416 --> 00:15:19,916 mission, it's 835 00:15:19,916 --> 00:15:20,250 definitely to 836 00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:21,416 decentralize development 837 00:15:21,416 --> 00:15:22,208 in regions 838 00:15:22,208 --> 00:15:23,541 where they're not as common. 839 00:15:23,541 --> 00:15:24,458 And now, so far 840 00:15:24,458 --> 00:15:26,250 since we launched in 2021, 841 00:15:26,250 --> 00:15:28,333 I think we now have, 842 00:15:28,333 --> 00:15:29,250 long term developers 843 00:15:29,250 --> 00:15:29,875 that were supporting 844 00:15:29,875 --> 00:15:30,583 my coworkers. 845 00:15:30,583 --> 00:15:32,208 It has been super incredible. 846 00:15:32,208 --> 00:15:33,083 Bitcoin core working 847 00:15:33,083 --> 00:15:34,000 on Mempool stash, 848 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,833 even stuff on mining, 849 00:15:35,833 --> 00:15:36,708 as well as Novo, 850 00:15:36,708 --> 00:15:37,708 who's also working on Bitcoin 851 00:15:37,708 --> 00:15:38,333 Core, specifically 852 00:15:38,333 --> 00:15:39,250 silent payments. 853 00:15:39,250 --> 00:15:40,500 We also have another long 854 00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:42,083 term developer who's, 855 00:15:42,083 --> 00:15:43,625 female are the only one 856 00:15:43,625 --> 00:15:44,583 truly on the continent, 857 00:15:44,583 --> 00:15:45,333 is also working 858 00:15:45,333 --> 00:15:46,166 on the Lightning Network. 859 00:15:46,166 --> 00:15:48,125 We also have, 860 00:15:48,125 --> 00:15:48,541 to bet 861 00:15:48,541 --> 00:15:50,208 resources on BitPay server. 862 00:15:50,208 --> 00:15:51,375 I also have another, 863 00:15:51,375 --> 00:15:53,041 another person 864 00:15:53,041 --> 00:15:54,000 was on the started groundwork 865 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,708 team on, I think, polar, 866 00:15:56,708 --> 00:15:57,958 as well as another one 867 00:15:57,958 --> 00:15:58,625 who's Duncan 868 00:15:58,625 --> 00:15:59,291 working on 869 00:15:59,291 --> 00:15:59,791 the Lightning 870 00:15:59,791 --> 00:16:00,416 Network as well. 871 00:16:00,416 --> 00:16:01,583 So we have roughly around 872 00:16:01,583 --> 00:16:02,125 six folks 873 00:16:02,125 --> 00:16:02,833 that are currently 874 00:16:02,833 --> 00:16:03,875 full time grants. 875 00:16:03,875 --> 00:16:04,583 So since then, it's 876 00:16:04,583 --> 00:16:05,125 definitely evolved 877 00:16:05,125 --> 00:16:07,708 from just a basic idea 878 00:16:07,708 --> 00:16:08,375 that there are 879 00:16:08,375 --> 00:16:09,083 these developers 880 00:16:09,083 --> 00:16:09,750 that we can support 881 00:16:09,750 --> 00:16:10,500 on the continent 882 00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:11,166 and other parts 883 00:16:11,166 --> 00:16:12,500 to supporting 884 00:16:12,500 --> 00:16:13,916 a lot of these developers, 885 00:16:13,916 --> 00:16:14,416 making them, 886 00:16:14,416 --> 00:16:14,625 you know, 887 00:16:14,625 --> 00:16:15,750 the first class of developers 888 00:16:15,750 --> 00:16:16,708 coming out of this continent 889 00:16:16,708 --> 00:16:18,083 that have jobs fully 890 00:16:18,083 --> 00:16:18,916 working on Bitcoin, 891 00:16:18,916 --> 00:16:20,208 specifically open source, 892 00:16:20,208 --> 00:16:21,125 because I should clarify it 893 00:16:21,125 --> 00:16:21,958 in terms of support. 894 00:16:21,958 --> 00:16:23,208 Be just isn't, 895 00:16:23,208 --> 00:16:26,166 built to support ventures? 896 00:16:26,166 --> 00:16:27,000 All we're doing is 897 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:27,500 essentially 898 00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:28,375 centralized development 899 00:16:28,375 --> 00:16:29,458 specifically for Bitcoin, 900 00:16:29,458 --> 00:16:31,166 specifically open source. 901 00:16:31,166 --> 00:16:31,458 So that's 902 00:16:31,458 --> 00:16:32,333 where the core of our, 903 00:16:32,333 --> 00:16:33,166 activities are. 904 00:16:33,166 --> 00:16:34,333 So in 2023 905 00:16:34,333 --> 00:16:36,041 is when we took over 906 00:16:36,041 --> 00:16:37,250 the gala program, 907 00:16:37,250 --> 00:16:38,041 kind of just made it 908 00:16:38,041 --> 00:16:38,791 an internal pipeline 909 00:16:38,791 --> 00:16:39,375 for ourselves 910 00:16:39,375 --> 00:16:39,916 just to make sure 911 00:16:39,916 --> 00:16:41,208 everything streamlined. 912 00:16:41,208 --> 00:16:42,333 So started doing a lot more, 913 00:16:42,333 --> 00:16:43,291 capacity building. 914 00:16:43,291 --> 00:16:44,333 So since then, to date, 915 00:16:44,333 --> 00:16:45,000 I think we've changed 916 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:46,375 probably close to 917 00:16:46,375 --> 00:16:47,791 goes to 500 folks in terms 918 00:16:47,791 --> 00:16:49,000 of being involved, 919 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:49,833 some part of the other, 920 00:16:49,833 --> 00:16:50,208 whether it's 921 00:16:50,208 --> 00:16:50,916 mustering Bitcoin 922 00:16:50,916 --> 00:16:51,208 all the way 923 00:16:51,208 --> 00:16:53,166 up to the residents who are, 924 00:16:53,166 --> 00:16:54,291 I guess, the 925 00:16:54,291 --> 00:16:55,333 fellowship that we call it, 926 00:16:55,333 --> 00:16:56,125 which is three months 927 00:16:56,125 --> 00:16:57,083 intensive all the way up 928 00:16:57,083 --> 00:16:58,083 to getting a grant. 929 00:16:58,083 --> 00:16:58,458 So right now 930 00:16:58,458 --> 00:16:58,916 we're set up to 931 00:16:58,916 --> 00:16:59,541 do three things. 932 00:16:59,541 --> 00:17:00,625 So one is supporting 933 00:17:00,625 --> 00:17:01,916 developer education programs. 934 00:17:01,916 --> 00:17:02,500 So we have one 935 00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:03,250 internal called B 936 00:17:03,250 --> 00:17:03,875 Trust Builders 937 00:17:03,875 --> 00:17:05,541 which was previously caller. 938 00:17:05,541 --> 00:17:06,458 And then we also support 939 00:17:06,458 --> 00:17:07,375 other initiatives 940 00:17:07,375 --> 00:17:08,708 like Big Shala in India 941 00:17:08,708 --> 00:17:09,625 as well as the brightest 942 00:17:09,625 --> 00:17:11,333 Satoshi in Latin America. 943 00:17:11,333 --> 00:17:12,541 We also do conference 944 00:17:12,541 --> 00:17:13,708 okay sponsorships. 945 00:17:13,708 --> 00:17:14,666 So sponsor 946 00:17:14,666 --> 00:17:15,750 the Africa Bitcoin Conference 947 00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:16,583 for example size 948 00:17:16,583 --> 00:17:17,583 conf as well. 949 00:17:17,583 --> 00:17:18,541 Even adopting Bitcoin 950 00:17:18,541 --> 00:17:20,125 in Cape Town last year. 951 00:17:20,125 --> 00:17:21,583 And the last type of grants 952 00:17:21,583 --> 00:17:23,083 that we do is three fold. 953 00:17:23,083 --> 00:17:24,000 I should say two fold. 954 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,166 One is the startup grants. 955 00:17:26,166 --> 00:17:27,125 The idea was that 956 00:17:27,125 --> 00:17:27,583 it was born 957 00:17:27,583 --> 00:17:28,583 out of the long term grants 958 00:17:28,583 --> 00:17:28,916 that we did, 959 00:17:28,916 --> 00:17:30,333 because our thinking was, 960 00:17:30,333 --> 00:17:31,500 if we're still 961 00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:32,500 early in the stage, 962 00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:33,083 we are going to have 963 00:17:33,083 --> 00:17:33,666 a lot of people 964 00:17:33,666 --> 00:17:34,250 that are working 965 00:17:34,250 --> 00:17:35,250 long term on Bitcoin 966 00:17:35,250 --> 00:17:36,041 that have that 967 00:17:36,041 --> 00:17:36,875 type of track record. 968 00:17:36,875 --> 00:17:38,208 So the idea is to have 969 00:17:38,208 --> 00:17:39,541 this kind of discovery grant 970 00:17:39,541 --> 00:17:40,083 where they have 971 00:17:40,083 --> 00:17:40,750 three months, 972 00:17:40,750 --> 00:17:41,500 actually six months, 973 00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:42,666 essentially where they 974 00:17:42,666 --> 00:17:44,000 kind of look for a niche 975 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,041 within Bitcoin Core 976 00:17:45,041 --> 00:17:46,083 or some other project 977 00:17:46,083 --> 00:17:47,291 related to Bitcoin, 978 00:17:47,291 --> 00:17:47,875 and then they 979 00:17:47,875 --> 00:17:48,791 gradually get into long 980 00:17:48,791 --> 00:17:49,208 term grants. 981 00:17:49,208 --> 00:17:50,666 So we had folks like abacus 982 00:17:50,666 --> 00:17:51,500 might as well 983 00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:51,833 start 984 00:17:51,833 --> 00:17:52,875 with that novel as well. 985 00:17:52,875 --> 00:17:54,958 So I say like half 986 00:17:54,958 --> 00:17:56,166 or probably over 60 987 00:17:56,166 --> 00:17:57,208 or 70% of the people 988 00:17:57,208 --> 00:17:58,166 creative long term grant 989 00:17:58,166 --> 00:17:59,625 started from that pipeline. 990 00:17:59,625 --> 00:18:00,125 And we also have 991 00:18:00,125 --> 00:18:00,833 the long term grants, 992 00:18:00,833 --> 00:18:01,708 which start from a year 993 00:18:01,708 --> 00:18:02,791 and then could be renewed for 994 00:18:02,791 --> 00:18:03,958 two years plus. 995 00:18:03,958 --> 00:18:05,250 So those three are kind 996 00:18:05,250 --> 00:18:06,375 of the main engine 997 00:18:06,375 --> 00:18:07,208 behind for trust. 998 00:18:07,208 --> 00:18:07,666 And in terms 999 00:18:07,666 --> 00:18:08,291 of moving forward 1000 00:18:08,291 --> 00:18:10,083 2025, it's a lot of, 1001 00:18:10,083 --> 00:18:11,541 I guess, streamlining 1002 00:18:11,541 --> 00:18:12,083 that process 1003 00:18:12,083 --> 00:18:12,833 with subcommittees 1004 00:18:12,833 --> 00:18:13,916 similar to how open science 1005 00:18:13,916 --> 00:18:15,750 evaluates, proposals. 1006 00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:15,958 That way 1007 00:18:15,958 --> 00:18:16,625 it's not subject 1008 00:18:16,625 --> 00:18:17,291 to the discretion 1009 00:18:17,291 --> 00:18:17,791 of the board 1010 00:18:17,791 --> 00:18:18,500 or potentially 1011 00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:20,041 some sort of foul play. 1012 00:18:20,041 --> 00:18:21,083 So a lot of a lot of work 1013 00:18:21,083 --> 00:18:21,541 around that, 1014 00:18:21,541 --> 00:18:22,375 a lot of work around 1015 00:18:22,375 --> 00:18:23,375 open source, specifically 1016 00:18:23,375 --> 00:18:24,875 drilling into 1017 00:18:24,875 --> 00:18:25,416 having a very 1018 00:18:25,416 --> 00:18:26,291 effective pipeline 1019 00:18:26,291 --> 00:18:27,125 or filter for that. 1020 00:18:27,125 --> 00:18:28,416 So that's why we decided 1021 00:18:28,416 --> 00:18:29,666 to also do the POS program, 1022 00:18:29,666 --> 00:18:30,833 which is initiative 1023 00:18:30,833 --> 00:18:31,500 started by chain. 1024 00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:31,791 Couldn't 1025 00:18:31,791 --> 00:18:32,750 a whole bunch of other folks 1026 00:18:32,750 --> 00:18:33,416 who trying to refine 1027 00:18:33,416 --> 00:18:34,458 the whole process. 1028 00:18:34,458 --> 00:18:34,916 Later in the year, 1029 00:18:34,916 --> 00:18:35,333 we're going to do 1030 00:18:35,333 --> 00:18:36,750 our own program, our own 1031 00:18:38,375 --> 00:18:39,458 our own program, as well 1032 00:18:39,458 --> 00:18:40,791 as part of the court five. 1033 00:18:40,791 --> 00:18:41,916 So this one's currently code 1034 00:18:41,916 --> 00:18:42,375 four is going to 1035 00:18:42,375 --> 00:18:43,500 start on Monday. 1036 00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:44,458 And the idea is simple, 1037 00:18:44,458 --> 00:18:45,458 like get a whole 1038 00:18:45,458 --> 00:18:46,000 bunch of folks 1039 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,583 interested in Bitcoin, 1040 00:18:47,583 --> 00:18:48,791 help them navigate the space. 1041 00:18:48,791 --> 00:18:50,500 So we just essentially now 1042 00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:50,875 set up 1043 00:18:50,875 --> 00:18:52,541 as both the starting point 1044 00:18:52,541 --> 00:18:53,333 and the destination 1045 00:18:53,333 --> 00:18:54,166 for developers, 1046 00:18:54,166 --> 00:18:54,958 specifically in Africa 1047 00:18:54,958 --> 00:18:55,833 and all these other regions 1048 00:18:55,833 --> 00:18:58,541 that we serve. 1049 00:18:58,541 --> 00:18:59,041 Yeah. Cool. 1050 00:18:59,041 --> 00:19:00,666 You mentioned Bit Chalet 1051 00:19:00,666 --> 00:19:01,250 in India. 1052 00:19:01,250 --> 00:19:02,083 They, by 1053 00:19:02,083 --> 00:19:03,916 the way, are doing a, 1054 00:19:03,916 --> 00:19:07,083 a thorough read of, of, 1055 00:19:07,083 --> 00:19:08,000 Bitcoin, the inverse 1056 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,291 of cloud World book. 1057 00:19:09,291 --> 00:19:11,041 So, so I'm enjoying 1058 00:19:11,041 --> 00:19:12,166 hopping in and listening 1059 00:19:12,166 --> 00:19:13,666 to that every now and then. 1060 00:19:13,666 --> 00:19:15,291 It's wonderful to hear it 1061 00:19:15,291 --> 00:19:15,958 read out 1062 00:19:15,958 --> 00:19:16,916 and explained 1063 00:19:16,916 --> 00:19:18,916 in in an Indian accent. 1064 00:19:18,916 --> 00:19:20,666 It's one in Ireland 1065 00:19:20,666 --> 00:19:21,250 that, that 1066 00:19:21,250 --> 00:19:22,750 that is all on YouTube. 1067 00:19:22,750 --> 00:19:23,500 And like, 1068 00:19:23,500 --> 00:19:24,083 I'll, 1069 00:19:24,083 --> 00:19:26,000 I'll do a big post about it 1070 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,166 when, whenever 1071 00:19:27,166 --> 00:19:28,291 the series is done. 1072 00:19:28,291 --> 00:19:29,583 But they're doing it 1073 00:19:29,583 --> 00:19:30,125 once a week. 1074 00:19:30,125 --> 00:19:31,916 So that's a great project. 1075 00:19:31,916 --> 00:19:33,958 So, so yeah. 1076 00:19:33,958 --> 00:19:35,541 Bitcoin in Africa in general 1077 00:19:35,541 --> 00:19:37,833 and in Nigeria specifically. 1078 00:19:37,833 --> 00:19:40,833 Like, what what 1079 00:19:40,833 --> 00:19:43,000 let's start somewhere like 1080 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:44,958 how is adoption in Nigeria? 1081 00:19:44,958 --> 00:19:45,958 The things I've heard from 1082 00:19:45,958 --> 00:19:46,916 Nigeria is like 1083 00:19:46,916 --> 00:19:47,875 every other year 1084 00:19:47,875 --> 00:19:48,583 they ban it 1085 00:19:48,583 --> 00:19:50,208 and every other year they 1086 00:19:50,208 --> 00:19:51,083 they embrace it. 1087 00:19:51,083 --> 00:19:52,541 And this goes back and forth. 1088 00:19:52,541 --> 00:19:52,833 Right. 1089 00:19:52,833 --> 00:19:53,958 And like it's 1090 00:19:53,958 --> 00:19:55,375 very schizophrenic. 1091 00:19:55,375 --> 00:19:56,458 So what's going on there. 1092 00:19:57,541 --> 00:19:58,583 You know a lot. 1093 00:19:58,583 --> 00:19:59,333 And I 1094 00:19:59,333 --> 00:19:59,583 say for 1095 00:19:59,583 --> 00:20:01,625 context, the first ban 1096 00:20:01,625 --> 00:20:02,708 or I should say quasi 1097 00:20:02,708 --> 00:20:04,458 ban was in, I believe, 2021 1098 00:20:04,458 --> 00:20:06,583 or early 2022. 1099 00:20:06,583 --> 00:20:08,500 And the idea was, again, 1100 00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:09,833 more context. 1101 00:20:09,833 --> 00:20:11,333 Bitcoin was introduced 1102 00:20:11,333 --> 00:20:12,083 into the continent, 1103 00:20:12,083 --> 00:20:13,666 specifically in Africa, 1104 00:20:13,666 --> 00:20:15,250 specifically in Nigeria, 1105 00:20:15,250 --> 00:20:16,833 as kind of a 1106 00:20:16,833 --> 00:20:17,333 part of, 1107 00:20:17,333 --> 00:20:18,416 I guess, 1108 00:20:18,416 --> 00:20:19,583 an ecosystem of scams 1109 00:20:19,583 --> 00:20:20,458 that came in. 1110 00:20:20,458 --> 00:20:21,125 So a lot of people 1111 00:20:21,125 --> 00:20:22,916 had these multi marketing 1112 00:20:22,916 --> 00:20:23,875 level multi-level 1113 00:20:23,875 --> 00:20:24,875 marketing schemes 1114 00:20:24,875 --> 00:20:25,583 and things like that 1115 00:20:25,583 --> 00:20:26,666 that pretend 1116 00:20:26,666 --> 00:20:27,666 like they're buying Bitcoin 1117 00:20:27,666 --> 00:20:28,583 for people were, 1118 00:20:28,583 --> 00:20:29,041 whereas they 1119 00:20:29,041 --> 00:20:30,375 weren't in reality. 1120 00:20:30,375 --> 00:20:31,083 So a lot of people 1121 00:20:31,083 --> 00:20:32,500 really had an introduction 1122 00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:33,125 to Bitcoin. 1123 00:20:33,125 --> 00:20:33,625 And again, 1124 00:20:33,625 --> 00:20:34,041 to fight 1125 00:20:34,041 --> 00:20:34,916 in the sense that they felt 1126 00:20:34,916 --> 00:20:36,875 this was just a scam. 1127 00:20:36,875 --> 00:20:39,083 And obviously there is the 1128 00:20:39,083 --> 00:20:39,875 I guess the 1129 00:20:39,875 --> 00:20:41,208 the existing paradigm 1130 00:20:41,208 --> 00:20:42,958 of scamming and 1131 00:20:42,958 --> 00:20:44,291 and being that being a means 1132 00:20:44,291 --> 00:20:45,375 for folks, 1133 00:20:45,375 --> 00:20:46,208 typically folks 1134 00:20:46,208 --> 00:20:47,208 around my age. 1135 00:20:47,208 --> 00:20:48,416 So there was that perception 1136 00:20:48,416 --> 00:20:49,000 that it's either 1137 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:50,541 for criminals or 1138 00:20:50,541 --> 00:20:51,083 these young kids 1139 00:20:51,083 --> 00:20:52,000 trying to make a quick buck 1140 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,666 or just scammers out. Right? 1141 00:20:53,666 --> 00:20:53,833 Yeah. 1142 00:20:53,833 --> 00:20:55,666 All about Nigerian 1143 00:20:55,666 --> 00:20:57,208 royal royalty, right. 1144 00:20:57,208 --> 00:20:58,291 Prince exotic. Yeah. 1145 00:20:59,916 --> 00:21:00,500 So that's, you know, 1146 00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:01,208 one of the tools 1147 00:21:01,208 --> 00:21:02,458 for the royal class 1148 00:21:02,458 --> 00:21:03,333 you could see of 1149 00:21:03,333 --> 00:21:03,958 scammers here. 1150 00:21:03,958 --> 00:21:06,000 So I guess the thinking 1151 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:06,541 from the central 1152 00:21:06,541 --> 00:21:07,250 Bank of Nigeria 1153 00:21:07,250 --> 00:21:08,250 and some of the regulators 1154 00:21:08,250 --> 00:21:09,708 here at the apex, regulators 1155 00:21:09,708 --> 00:21:11,375 I should say, has been 1156 00:21:11,375 --> 00:21:14,250 one of cautious, 1157 00:21:14,250 --> 00:21:16,500 cautious like hesitation 1158 00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:17,833 to kind of get involved, 1159 00:21:17,833 --> 00:21:18,708 especially in that 1160 00:21:18,708 --> 00:21:19,250 at that point 1161 00:21:19,250 --> 00:21:20,666 in time in 2021. 1162 00:21:20,666 --> 00:21:21,541 So the idea for them 1163 00:21:21,541 --> 00:21:22,750 was just have a blanket ban, 1164 00:21:22,750 --> 00:21:23,500 the same thing 1165 00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:24,041 where every 1166 00:21:24,041 --> 00:21:24,875 other part of the world's 1167 00:21:24,875 --> 00:21:25,500 pretty much hide. 1168 00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:26,833 So what they did 1169 00:21:26,833 --> 00:21:28,708 was essentially stop 1170 00:21:28,708 --> 00:21:29,791 all these crypto companies 1171 00:21:29,791 --> 00:21:30,416 at that point 1172 00:21:30,416 --> 00:21:31,166 directly tying 1173 00:21:31,166 --> 00:21:32,041 banned transactions 1174 00:21:32,041 --> 00:21:32,750 to Bitcoin 1175 00:21:32,750 --> 00:21:34,166 or generally crypto. 1176 00:21:34,166 --> 00:21:35,708 So that was the first quasi 1177 00:21:35,708 --> 00:21:36,375 binary. 1178 00:21:36,375 --> 00:21:37,375 There wasn't necessarily 1179 00:21:37,375 --> 00:21:38,666 an outright ban ever 1180 00:21:38,666 --> 00:21:39,541 in dangerous history. 1181 00:21:39,541 --> 00:21:40,833 A couple of other countries 1182 00:21:40,833 --> 00:21:41,916 somebody 1183 00:21:41,916 --> 00:21:44,541 and from that point on to 1184 00:21:44,541 --> 00:21:46,291 2023 was 1185 00:21:46,291 --> 00:21:46,625 kind of 1186 00:21:46,625 --> 00:21:47,833 an interesting period for us. 1187 00:21:47,833 --> 00:21:49,208 So we went from 1188 00:21:49,208 --> 00:21:50,166 people essentially using 1189 00:21:50,166 --> 00:21:50,375 all these 1190 00:21:50,375 --> 00:21:51,416 centralized exchanges 1191 00:21:51,416 --> 00:21:52,666 to realizing 1192 00:21:52,666 --> 00:21:53,041 they can't 1193 00:21:53,041 --> 00:21:53,791 necessarily do that 1194 00:21:53,791 --> 00:21:54,541 effectively now. 1195 00:21:54,541 --> 00:21:55,250 So everyone was 1196 00:21:55,250 --> 00:21:56,166 Christian to P2P 1197 00:21:56,166 --> 00:21:57,458 and I mean, like 1198 00:21:57,458 --> 00:21:58,500 really, right, P2P 1199 00:21:58,500 --> 00:21:59,583 all the way from in-person 1200 00:21:59,583 --> 00:22:01,083 to shitty WhatsApp groups 1201 00:22:01,083 --> 00:22:02,083 to telegram group. 1202 00:22:02,083 --> 00:22:04,708 So we kind of built in 1203 00:22:04,708 --> 00:22:05,291 the two years 1204 00:22:05,291 --> 00:22:06,875 since that whole quasi ban, 1205 00:22:06,875 --> 00:22:07,875 like a very, very strong 1206 00:22:07,875 --> 00:22:09,875 P2P network of liquidity, 1207 00:22:09,875 --> 00:22:10,625 really for Bitcoin, 1208 00:22:10,625 --> 00:22:12,083 which is why we tend to rank 1209 00:22:12,083 --> 00:22:12,541 pretty high 1210 00:22:12,541 --> 00:22:13,250 when it comes to either 1211 00:22:13,250 --> 00:22:14,333 P2P or just adoption 1212 00:22:14,333 --> 00:22:14,791 in general, 1213 00:22:14,791 --> 00:22:16,625 because a lot of people 1214 00:22:16,625 --> 00:22:17,250 are facing 1215 00:22:17,250 --> 00:22:18,250 lot of economic challenges. 1216 00:22:18,250 --> 00:22:19,083 Nigeria, where we have 1217 00:22:19,083 --> 00:22:19,583 double digit 1218 00:22:19,583 --> 00:22:20,708 inflation, food crisis 1219 00:22:20,708 --> 00:22:21,625 that we had previously, 1220 00:22:21,625 --> 00:22:22,916 I think two years now. 1221 00:22:22,916 --> 00:22:23,625 So of the 1222 00:22:23,625 --> 00:22:24,541 the election that happened 1223 00:22:24,541 --> 00:22:25,291 two years ago, two, 1224 00:22:25,291 --> 00:22:26,833 which is insane 1225 00:22:26,833 --> 00:22:28,041 in terms of the 1226 00:22:28,041 --> 00:22:29,166 the shortages on cash 1227 00:22:29,166 --> 00:22:29,833 because they're moving 1228 00:22:29,833 --> 00:22:30,541 to different nodes 1229 00:22:30,541 --> 00:22:33,541 to soak up the amount of, 1230 00:22:33,666 --> 00:22:35,041 money that's outside of banks 1231 00:22:35,041 --> 00:22:35,958 so that regulation 1232 00:22:35,958 --> 00:22:36,625 could be effective. 1233 00:22:36,625 --> 00:22:37,708 So they reversed the ban 1234 00:22:37,708 --> 00:22:39,708 in 2023 or 2023. 1235 00:22:39,708 --> 00:22:41,458 But at that point, really 1236 00:22:41,458 --> 00:22:42,750 Bitcoin was already a 1237 00:22:42,750 --> 00:22:43,583 common staple. 1238 00:22:43,583 --> 00:22:44,333 So went from 1239 00:22:44,333 --> 00:22:45,333 being super scammy 1240 00:22:45,333 --> 00:22:46,708 to people actually organized 1241 00:22:46,708 --> 00:22:47,666 that it has used outside 1242 00:22:47,666 --> 00:22:49,166 of just being 1243 00:22:49,166 --> 00:22:50,458 kind of a scam coin 1244 00:22:50,458 --> 00:22:51,750 or some sort of a 1245 00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:52,708 criminal money, really. 1246 00:22:52,708 --> 00:22:53,666 So started realizing 1247 00:22:53,666 --> 00:22:54,166 that they could use it 1248 00:22:54,166 --> 00:22:55,666 for savings from intensives. 1249 00:22:55,666 --> 00:22:56,458 All of that, 1250 00:22:56,458 --> 00:22:57,125 and then used it 1251 00:22:57,125 --> 00:22:58,041 came into the mix too. 1252 00:22:58,041 --> 00:22:59,125 So they have like, 1253 00:22:59,125 --> 00:22:59,666 pretty much 1254 00:22:59,666 --> 00:23:00,541 stable Swiss 1255 00:23:00,541 --> 00:23:01,500 Army knife in terms 1256 00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:03,000 of how they navigate 1257 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:03,708 monetary 1258 00:23:03,708 --> 00:23:04,458 at the monetary 1259 00:23:04,458 --> 00:23:05,250 milieu generally 1260 00:23:05,250 --> 00:23:06,125 and being being 1261 00:23:06,125 --> 00:23:06,916 able to participate 1262 00:23:06,916 --> 00:23:08,666 both at the local level 1263 00:23:08,666 --> 00:23:09,875 as well, like a global level. 1264 00:23:09,875 --> 00:23:11,583 So definitely, 1265 00:23:11,583 --> 00:23:12,958 if you ask me, I feel like, 1266 00:23:12,958 --> 00:23:14,458 the regulators 1267 00:23:14,458 --> 00:23:14,875 are the reason 1268 00:23:14,875 --> 00:23:15,416 why Bitcoin 1269 00:23:15,416 --> 00:23:16,500 is so big in Nigeria 1270 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:17,583 because 1271 00:23:17,583 --> 00:23:19,333 it was so desperate to 1272 00:23:19,333 --> 00:23:20,875 and have blanket bans early 1273 00:23:20,875 --> 00:23:21,666 on, which 1274 00:23:21,666 --> 00:23:22,625 I mean the consequences 1275 00:23:22,625 --> 00:23:23,333 are very difficult 1276 00:23:23,333 --> 00:23:23,916 to determine 1277 00:23:23,916 --> 00:23:24,958 from their point of view. 1278 00:23:24,958 --> 00:23:25,833 So I definitely understand 1279 00:23:25,833 --> 00:23:26,208 that it would have 1280 00:23:26,208 --> 00:23:26,666 been difficult 1281 00:23:26,666 --> 00:23:28,333 to foresee that there enabled 1282 00:23:28,333 --> 00:23:29,583 this whole push of P2P 1283 00:23:29,583 --> 00:23:30,750 all the way up to, 1284 00:23:30,750 --> 00:23:30,958 you know, 1285 00:23:30,958 --> 00:23:32,291 for their economic crises 1286 00:23:32,291 --> 00:23:32,791 as a result 1287 00:23:32,791 --> 00:23:33,625 of a whole bunch of stuff 1288 00:23:33,625 --> 00:23:34,833 like borrowing from the IMF. 1289 00:23:34,833 --> 00:23:36,083 So as in now 1290 00:23:36,083 --> 00:23:37,125 in the state of Bitcoin 1291 00:23:37,125 --> 00:23:38,791 in Nigeria specifically, 1292 00:23:38,791 --> 00:23:39,791 it's two fold, like 1293 00:23:39,791 --> 00:23:40,916 it's very, very high. 1294 00:23:40,916 --> 00:23:42,458 But it's on to the stage 1295 00:23:42,458 --> 00:23:43,166 where people think 1296 00:23:43,166 --> 00:23:43,583 in terms of 1297 00:23:43,583 --> 00:23:44,791 you could walk into a shop 1298 00:23:44,791 --> 00:23:46,166 and pay with Bitcoin, 1299 00:23:46,166 --> 00:23:46,625 it's mostly 1300 00:23:46,625 --> 00:23:46,875 to do 1301 00:23:46,875 --> 00:23:47,958 with actual individuals. 1302 00:23:47,958 --> 00:23:49,083 So I see the individual 1303 00:23:49,083 --> 00:23:50,125 adoption is very high 1304 00:23:50,125 --> 00:23:50,916 and not like a 1305 00:23:50,916 --> 00:23:51,791 national adoption. 1306 00:23:51,791 --> 00:23:52,750 That's happening 1307 00:23:52,750 --> 00:23:53,666 in like other countries, 1308 00:23:53,666 --> 00:23:54,333 like software, 1309 00:23:54,333 --> 00:23:54,875 all those, whereas 1310 00:23:54,875 --> 00:23:56,041 like really nationally 1311 00:23:56,041 --> 00:23:57,125 recognized on that level. 1312 00:23:58,666 --> 00:23:59,625 And what about mining? 1313 00:23:59,625 --> 00:24:01,041 Are there any mining projects 1314 00:24:01,041 --> 00:24:01,750 in Nigeria 1315 00:24:01,750 --> 00:24:03,541 like how is that going? 1316 00:24:03,541 --> 00:24:04,500 Okay, it's interesting too. 1317 00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:05,583 So starting from 1318 00:24:05,583 --> 00:24:06,208 really early on, 1319 00:24:06,208 --> 00:24:06,833 a lot of hobbyist 1320 00:24:06,833 --> 00:24:08,416 mining in Nigeria. 1321 00:24:08,416 --> 00:24:09,708 So we're talking 1322 00:24:09,708 --> 00:24:11,166 sub one megawatts, 1323 00:24:11,166 --> 00:24:12,750 like really rugged 1324 00:24:12,750 --> 00:24:13,666 mining operations 1325 00:24:13,666 --> 00:24:14,250 where you just walk 1326 00:24:14,250 --> 00:24:15,541 into a house and start 1327 00:24:15,541 --> 00:24:16,083 hearing a whole 1328 00:24:16,083 --> 00:24:16,625 bunch of noise, 1329 00:24:16,625 --> 00:24:17,458 and then 1330 00:24:17,458 --> 00:24:18,333 walking to this room, 1331 00:24:18,333 --> 00:24:20,333 you see a whole bunch of S19 1332 00:24:20,333 --> 00:24:20,875 working out. 1333 00:24:20,875 --> 00:24:22,166 So at this point 1334 00:24:22,166 --> 00:24:22,958 is a lot more structured. 1335 00:24:22,958 --> 00:24:23,875 I say, 1336 00:24:23,875 --> 00:24:25,208 due to a lot of the clarity 1337 00:24:25,208 --> 00:24:26,916 that we have in terms of 1338 00:24:26,916 --> 00:24:28,166 other parts of Africa 1339 00:24:28,166 --> 00:24:29,125 as being Bitcoin mining 1340 00:24:29,125 --> 00:24:30,166 like Ethiopia, Kenya 1341 00:24:30,166 --> 00:24:31,291 and some other parts, 1342 00:24:31,291 --> 00:24:31,583 I think a lot 1343 00:24:31,583 --> 00:24:32,750 more people are understanding 1344 00:24:32,750 --> 00:24:34,708 in terms of the value, 1345 00:24:34,708 --> 00:24:35,291 the benefit, 1346 00:24:35,291 --> 00:24:35,750 as well as how 1347 00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:36,750 to actually practically do it 1348 00:24:36,750 --> 00:24:37,708 well without blowing 1349 00:24:37,708 --> 00:24:38,833 circuits in 1350 00:24:38,833 --> 00:24:39,625 and causing fires, 1351 00:24:39,625 --> 00:24:40,541 which a whole bunch of 1352 00:24:40,541 --> 00:24:41,125 early folks 1353 00:24:41,125 --> 00:24:42,166 had to go through. 1354 00:24:42,166 --> 00:24:42,750 And right now 1355 00:24:42,750 --> 00:24:44,083 we're seeing a huge 1356 00:24:44,083 --> 00:24:45,833 uptake in terms of organized 1357 00:24:45,833 --> 00:24:47,541 mining operations in Nigeria, 1358 00:24:47,541 --> 00:24:48,250 despite the fact 1359 00:24:48,250 --> 00:24:48,750 that there isn't 1360 00:24:48,750 --> 00:24:49,583 necessarily clear 1361 00:24:49,583 --> 00:24:50,208 regulation 1362 00:24:50,208 --> 00:24:52,166 in terms of an okay or a 1363 00:24:52,166 --> 00:24:52,708 not really 1364 00:24:52,708 --> 00:24:53,458 from the regulator. 1365 00:24:53,458 --> 00:24:54,541 So so 1366 00:24:54,541 --> 00:24:56,166 we're still in that like 1367 00:24:56,166 --> 00:24:56,958 shadowy area 1368 00:24:56,958 --> 00:24:57,875 in terms of operation. 1369 00:24:57,875 --> 00:24:58,791 But there's a lot 1370 00:24:58,791 --> 00:25:00,083 to do with hydro 1371 00:25:00,083 --> 00:25:01,125 as well as flared gas, 1372 00:25:01,125 --> 00:25:02,333 because as you said, 1373 00:25:02,333 --> 00:25:02,833 guys down 1374 00:25:02,833 --> 00:25:05,125 south and Niger has pretty 1375 00:25:05,125 --> 00:25:05,875 much ranked 1376 00:25:05,875 --> 00:25:06,416 top five, 1377 00:25:06,416 --> 00:25:07,250 I think customers 1378 00:25:07,250 --> 00:25:07,625 in the world. 1379 00:25:07,625 --> 00:25:08,791 So makes a lot of sense 1380 00:25:08,791 --> 00:25:09,250 for people 1381 00:25:09,250 --> 00:25:10,625 to engage through that. 1382 00:25:10,625 --> 00:25:11,666 So it's actually growing, 1383 00:25:11,666 --> 00:25:12,666 I think. 1384 00:25:12,666 --> 00:25:13,500 I think we're behind 1385 00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:15,083 in terms of adoption 1386 00:25:15,083 --> 00:25:15,833 for Bitcoin mining 1387 00:25:15,833 --> 00:25:16,750 compared to Kenya 1388 00:25:16,750 --> 00:25:17,291 or Ethiopia. 1389 00:25:17,291 --> 00:25:18,625 I mean, Ethiopia alone 1390 00:25:18,625 --> 00:25:18,833 right now. 1391 00:25:18,833 --> 00:25:19,333 I think 1392 00:25:19,333 --> 00:25:20,125 the last time I checked, 1393 00:25:20,125 --> 00:25:20,583 the numbers 1394 00:25:20,583 --> 00:25:22,666 are probably around like 25% 1395 00:25:22,666 --> 00:25:23,375 global hash rate, 1396 00:25:23,375 --> 00:25:24,458 which is insane. 1397 00:25:24,458 --> 00:25:25,583 It grew from 1398 00:25:25,583 --> 00:25:26,666 like pretty much 0.5 1399 00:25:26,666 --> 00:25:28,250 or 0.25 a year 1400 00:25:28,250 --> 00:25:29,250 earlier 1401 00:25:29,250 --> 00:25:30,333 in 2023, 1402 00:25:30,333 --> 00:25:32,375 all the way up to 2.5 when, 1403 00:25:32,375 --> 00:25:33,083 just for context, 1404 00:25:33,083 --> 00:25:33,958 like the whole of Africa 1405 00:25:33,958 --> 00:25:35,458 is roughly around three point 1406 00:25:35,458 --> 00:25:36,791 something percent hash rate. 1407 00:25:36,791 --> 00:25:37,833 So you can see 1408 00:25:37,833 --> 00:25:38,958 just a single country 1409 00:25:38,958 --> 00:25:39,583 gobbling 1410 00:25:39,583 --> 00:25:40,500 so much of the hash rate. 1411 00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:42,000 So I think probably 1412 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,416 by the end of 2025, 1413 00:25:43,416 --> 00:25:44,041 that number 1414 00:25:44,041 --> 00:25:45,000 generally for Africa 1415 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,791 will probably reach 1416 00:25:46,791 --> 00:25:47,875 above 5% 1417 00:25:47,875 --> 00:25:48,416 as a result 1418 00:25:48,416 --> 00:25:49,750 of expanded operations 1419 00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:50,916 both in Ethiopia, Kenya 1420 00:25:50,916 --> 00:25:51,500 as well as some 1421 00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:52,250 parts of Nigeria. 1422 00:25:54,666 --> 00:25:55,291 Yeah, yeah. 1423 00:25:55,291 --> 00:25:58,291 So that I think the whole 1424 00:25:58,750 --> 00:26:00,416 mining picture in general 1425 00:26:00,416 --> 00:26:02,333 is an interesting one, like, 1426 00:26:02,333 --> 00:26:04,875 what you mentioned with 1427 00:26:04,875 --> 00:26:05,833 kind of the comparisons 1428 00:26:05,833 --> 00:26:07,708 to, to other countries, 1429 00:26:07,708 --> 00:26:09,166 and, well, 1430 00:26:09,166 --> 00:26:10,291 I guess 1431 00:26:10,291 --> 00:26:11,208 we should say the, the, 1432 00:26:11,208 --> 00:26:12,000 our last meeting 1433 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,000 was at the nice 1434 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,750 conference in Slovenia, 1435 00:26:15,750 --> 00:26:16,708 and we did a panel 1436 00:26:16,708 --> 00:26:17,375 together on, 1437 00:26:17,375 --> 00:26:18,125 I guess, the, 1438 00:26:18,125 --> 00:26:19,583 the future trends 1439 00:26:19,583 --> 00:26:21,416 in, in mining. 1440 00:26:21,416 --> 00:26:22,500 And I think your, 1441 00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:23,708 your expertise on the, 1442 00:26:23,708 --> 00:26:24,625 on the local 1443 00:26:24,625 --> 00:26:26,041 market in Africa was a good, 1444 00:26:26,041 --> 00:26:26,916 a good chunk 1445 00:26:26,916 --> 00:26:27,791 of what we talked about. 1446 00:26:27,791 --> 00:26:29,666 But, I guess 1447 00:26:29,666 --> 00:26:30,333 do you see this 1448 00:26:30,333 --> 00:26:32,625 trend continuing that 1449 00:26:32,625 --> 00:26:33,583 that mining 1450 00:26:33,583 --> 00:26:34,125 is going to be 1451 00:26:34,125 --> 00:26:35,458 really targeting these 1452 00:26:35,458 --> 00:26:36,416 these areas 1453 00:26:36,416 --> 00:26:39,125 that, are currently 1454 00:26:39,125 --> 00:26:40,125 sort of say, 1455 00:26:40,125 --> 00:26:42,208 underserved 1456 00:26:42,208 --> 00:26:44,250 in terms of electrical grids 1457 00:26:44,250 --> 00:26:45,750 and things like this, like, 1458 00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:47,916 is mining the 1459 00:26:47,916 --> 00:26:49,000 the narrative around 1460 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,125 it is 1461 00:26:50,125 --> 00:26:50,750 seems to 1462 00:26:50,750 --> 00:26:52,083 be very positive in Africa 1463 00:26:52,083 --> 00:26:52,458 right now. 1464 00:26:52,458 --> 00:26:55,250 Is that, really the case? 1465 00:26:55,250 --> 00:26:56,250 Oh, I hundred percent 1466 00:26:56,250 --> 00:26:57,541 and I think it's 1467 00:26:57,541 --> 00:26:58,500 forced regulators 1468 00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:00,166 into a very interesting spot. 1469 00:27:00,166 --> 00:27:01,166 So think of it this way. 1470 00:27:01,166 --> 00:27:01,708 We already had, 1471 00:27:01,708 --> 00:27:03,125 especially in Nigeria, 1472 00:27:03,125 --> 00:27:05,041 the whole evolution of people 1473 00:27:05,041 --> 00:27:06,041 flipping the paradigm 1474 00:27:06,041 --> 00:27:06,625 on Bitcoin 1475 00:27:06,625 --> 00:27:09,083 from seeing a super volatile, 1476 00:27:09,083 --> 00:27:10,916 super stable to Bitcoin 1477 00:27:10,916 --> 00:27:12,250 being a lot less volatile 1478 00:27:12,250 --> 00:27:13,791 than the national currency, 1479 00:27:13,791 --> 00:27:14,750 I mean, increased 1480 00:27:14,750 --> 00:27:15,625 the economic crisis 1481 00:27:15,625 --> 00:27:16,083 and all of that. 1482 00:27:16,083 --> 00:27:17,083 So we went through 1483 00:27:17,083 --> 00:27:17,791 that whole shift 1484 00:27:17,791 --> 00:27:19,041 in just Bitcoin being a money 1485 00:27:19,041 --> 00:27:20,500 that actually does work. 1486 00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:21,208 Regulators already 1487 00:27:21,208 --> 00:27:22,000 have that context 1488 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:22,500 to work with. 1489 00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:24,083 And then Bitcoin mining was, 1490 00:27:24,083 --> 00:27:25,083 I think, 1491 00:27:25,083 --> 00:27:25,875 the first time 1492 00:27:25,875 --> 00:27:26,250 that a lot of 1493 00:27:26,250 --> 00:27:26,875 people understood 1494 00:27:26,875 --> 00:27:28,291 that Bitcoin is a technology. 1495 00:27:28,291 --> 00:27:29,750 And not just a money, as 1496 00:27:29,750 --> 00:27:30,833 people are seeing it as like 1497 00:27:30,833 --> 00:27:32,375 funny internet money, 1498 00:27:32,375 --> 00:27:33,583 because now they're seeing 1499 00:27:33,583 --> 00:27:34,833 that there are practical 1500 00:27:34,833 --> 00:27:36,541 socio economic consequences 1501 00:27:36,541 --> 00:27:37,166 and benefits 1502 00:27:37,166 --> 00:27:37,916 of Bitcoin mining 1503 00:27:37,916 --> 00:27:39,000 specifically to do 1504 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:39,916 with electrification, 1505 00:27:39,916 --> 00:27:40,875 which has been a huge issue 1506 00:27:40,875 --> 00:27:41,375 in Africa. 1507 00:27:41,375 --> 00:27:42,083 Like, 1508 00:27:42,083 --> 00:27:42,583 do we have been 1509 00:27:42,583 --> 00:27:43,375 approaching this 1510 00:27:43,375 --> 00:27:44,666 on a national level? 1511 00:27:44,666 --> 00:27:46,416 Variety of countries has been 1512 00:27:46,416 --> 00:27:47,333 heavily borrowing, 1513 00:27:47,333 --> 00:27:48,458 getting folks to get involved 1514 00:27:48,458 --> 00:27:49,583 with energy production. 1515 00:27:49,583 --> 00:27:51,083 And then the problem is folks 1516 00:27:51,083 --> 00:27:51,333 feel it's 1517 00:27:51,333 --> 00:27:52,583 too risky to get involved 1518 00:27:52,583 --> 00:27:53,416 a lot of these regions, 1519 00:27:53,416 --> 00:27:54,083 and then 1520 00:27:54,083 --> 00:27:54,666 there's no one 1521 00:27:54,666 --> 00:27:55,458 to take on this, 1522 00:27:55,458 --> 00:27:56,333 this energy 1523 00:27:56,333 --> 00:27:57,000 that's been produced. 1524 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:57,458 So typically 1525 00:27:57,458 --> 00:27:58,208 you just shut off. 1526 00:27:58,208 --> 00:27:59,041 Don't don't begin 1527 00:27:59,041 --> 00:27:59,791 about these projects 1528 00:27:59,791 --> 00:28:01,625 and other leading with that. 1529 00:28:01,625 --> 00:28:02,666 So with Bitcoin mining, 1530 00:28:02,666 --> 00:28:04,583 these are realizing that 1531 00:28:04,583 --> 00:28:05,416 this mechanism 1532 00:28:05,416 --> 00:28:06,125 of bootstrapping 1533 00:28:06,125 --> 00:28:07,458 energy production 1534 00:28:07,458 --> 00:28:08,166 by having a buyer 1535 00:28:08,166 --> 00:28:08,375 first 1536 00:28:08,375 --> 00:28:09,541 demand has solved 1537 00:28:09,541 --> 00:28:10,416 all the issues that we've had 1538 00:28:10,416 --> 00:28:11,083 for decades 1539 00:28:11,083 --> 00:28:12,208 in terms of electrification. 1540 00:28:12,208 --> 00:28:13,375 So for the first time, 1541 00:28:13,375 --> 00:28:14,541 they've been put in 1542 00:28:14,541 --> 00:28:15,041 a position 1543 00:28:15,041 --> 00:28:15,416 where they'll 1544 00:28:15,416 --> 00:28:16,375 have to confront 1545 00:28:16,375 --> 00:28:17,000 Bitcoin mining 1546 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:17,375 more head 1547 00:28:17,375 --> 00:28:19,583 on, a more one maturely 1548 00:28:19,583 --> 00:28:20,791 than previously in terms 1549 00:28:20,791 --> 00:28:22,458 of just outrageous, 1550 00:28:22,458 --> 00:28:24,000 hand-waving in terms of it 1551 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,541 just being money and a scam. 1552 00:28:25,541 --> 00:28:26,250 So I think we're going 1553 00:28:26,250 --> 00:28:26,833 to see a lot more, 1554 00:28:26,833 --> 00:28:27,416 especially now 1555 00:28:27,416 --> 00:28:28,750 with Ethiopian Kenya. 1556 00:28:28,750 --> 00:28:30,791 I think they've been super, 1557 00:28:30,791 --> 00:28:31,375 super great 1558 00:28:31,375 --> 00:28:32,166 in terms of pioneering 1559 00:28:32,166 --> 00:28:33,125 the space, both in terms 1560 00:28:33,125 --> 00:28:34,291 of on the regulatory front, 1561 00:28:34,291 --> 00:28:35,333 but also on 1562 00:28:35,333 --> 00:28:36,583 the strategic level in terms 1563 00:28:36,583 --> 00:28:37,500 of ramping up 1564 00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:38,333 energy production 1565 00:28:38,333 --> 00:28:39,666 and really showing people 1566 00:28:39,666 --> 00:28:41,125 that you could actually 1567 00:28:41,125 --> 00:28:42,416 usefully manage 1568 00:28:42,416 --> 00:28:43,375 green projects 1569 00:28:43,375 --> 00:28:44,541 through Bitcoin mining 1570 00:28:44,541 --> 00:28:45,875 and to connect electrify 1571 00:28:45,875 --> 00:28:46,875 rural communities. 1572 00:28:46,875 --> 00:28:48,416 Then honestly, in a point 1573 00:28:48,416 --> 00:28:49,083 where you have 1574 00:28:49,083 --> 00:28:49,875 access revenues 1575 00:28:49,875 --> 00:28:50,958 for these communities, 1576 00:28:50,958 --> 00:28:51,333 which can 1577 00:28:51,333 --> 00:28:52,625 then be used to build out 1578 00:28:52,625 --> 00:28:53,041 further 1579 00:28:53,041 --> 00:28:54,666 the grids that are pretty, 1580 00:28:54,666 --> 00:28:56,166 pretty disparate in terms of, 1581 00:28:56,166 --> 00:28:57,625 their maturity 1582 00:28:57,625 --> 00:28:58,291 as well as 1583 00:28:58,291 --> 00:28:59,625 the level of handling 1584 00:28:59,625 --> 00:29:00,375 the load to distribute 1585 00:29:00,375 --> 00:29:00,833 to other parts 1586 00:29:00,833 --> 00:29:01,708 that don't have electricity. 1587 00:29:01,708 --> 00:29:02,791 So it's this 1588 00:29:02,791 --> 00:29:03,833 whole flywheel 1589 00:29:03,833 --> 00:29:04,625 that's being created, 1590 00:29:04,625 --> 00:29:06,208 another person 1591 00:29:06,208 --> 00:29:06,875 place in Mangere 1592 00:29:06,875 --> 00:29:07,833 and other places 1593 00:29:07,833 --> 00:29:09,083 that are not as advanced 1594 00:29:09,083 --> 00:29:09,791 in terms of Bitcoin 1595 00:29:09,791 --> 00:29:10,375 mining are starting 1596 00:29:10,375 --> 00:29:10,791 to see that 1597 00:29:10,791 --> 00:29:11,916 as like a template 1598 00:29:11,916 --> 00:29:12,916 to Bitcoin to 1599 00:29:12,916 --> 00:29:13,708 especially the bitcoin 1600 00:29:13,708 --> 00:29:14,000 miners. 1601 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:14,791 You're trying to do the work. 1602 00:29:14,791 --> 00:29:16,000 So I think we'll see 1603 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,666 in 2025 to 2026 1604 00:29:17,666 --> 00:29:18,750 will be a lot more 1605 00:29:18,750 --> 00:29:19,791 regulatory clarity 1606 00:29:19,791 --> 00:29:20,458 or at least 1607 00:29:20,458 --> 00:29:21,458 some regulation, 1608 00:29:21,458 --> 00:29:22,833 whether good or bad, come out 1609 00:29:22,833 --> 00:29:23,416 as a result of 1610 00:29:23,416 --> 00:29:24,541 Bitcoin mining. 1611 00:29:24,541 --> 00:29:25,291 And you'll likely see 1612 00:29:25,291 --> 00:29:26,125 a lot more countries 1613 00:29:26,125 --> 00:29:26,666 being involved 1614 00:29:26,666 --> 00:29:27,333 with bitcoin mining, 1615 00:29:27,333 --> 00:29:28,416 not just for electrification, 1616 00:29:28,416 --> 00:29:30,125 but likely for, 1617 00:29:30,125 --> 00:29:30,625 I guess, 1618 00:29:30,625 --> 00:29:31,916 national treasury management, 1619 00:29:31,916 --> 00:29:32,791 really, where they're holding 1620 00:29:32,791 --> 00:29:34,000 Bitcoin as one 1621 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:34,958 possibly doing their 1622 00:29:34,958 --> 00:29:35,625 servicing down 1623 00:29:35,625 --> 00:29:36,583 the line as well. 1624 00:29:36,583 --> 00:29:37,041 I've heard 1625 00:29:37,041 --> 00:29:37,875 a few conversations 1626 00:29:37,875 --> 00:29:38,583 without mentioning 1627 00:29:38,583 --> 00:29:39,375 specific countries 1628 00:29:39,375 --> 00:29:40,833 where some of the regulators 1629 00:29:40,833 --> 00:29:41,125 are starting 1630 00:29:41,125 --> 00:29:41,666 to look at that, 1631 00:29:41,666 --> 00:29:42,416 especially on the central 1632 00:29:42,416 --> 00:29:42,958 bank level, 1633 00:29:42,958 --> 00:29:43,791 as a result of the work 1634 00:29:43,791 --> 00:29:44,750 from the Bitcoin Policy 1635 00:29:44,750 --> 00:29:45,625 Institute around that. 1636 00:29:45,625 --> 00:29:46,750 So that mean 1637 00:29:46,750 --> 00:29:47,666 a lot is going to happen. 1638 00:29:47,666 --> 00:29:49,083 And I think Bitcoin mining 1639 00:29:49,083 --> 00:29:49,583 is probably 1640 00:29:49,583 --> 00:29:50,458 the biggest catalyst 1641 00:29:50,458 --> 00:29:50,875 for why 1642 00:29:50,875 --> 00:29:51,708 governments are starting 1643 00:29:51,708 --> 00:29:52,708 to take become more seriously 1644 00:29:52,708 --> 00:29:54,583 on the continent. Mr.. 1645 00:29:54,583 --> 00:29:55,541 Hello there. 1646 00:29:55,541 --> 00:29:56,875 And here's 1647 00:29:56,875 --> 00:29:58,583 how to use code infinity 1648 00:29:58,583 --> 00:29:59,291 like everywhere 1649 00:29:59,291 --> 00:30:00,500 on the internet. 1650 00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:01,416 For instance 1651 00:30:01,416 --> 00:30:04,541 for the MicroStrategy Bitcoin 1652 00:30:04,541 --> 00:30:07,375 for corporations, conference 1653 00:30:07,375 --> 00:30:09,166 for BTC, frog for BTC. 1654 00:30:09,166 --> 00:30:09,458 Hell, 1655 00:30:09,458 --> 00:30:11,375 we come to Helsinki in August 1656 00:30:11,375 --> 00:30:13,250 and make sure T goes 1657 00:30:13,250 --> 00:30:14,291 stamp seed 1658 00:30:14,291 --> 00:30:15,708 with your three fantastic 1659 00:30:15,708 --> 00:30:17,541 little C plates. 1660 00:30:17,541 --> 00:30:19,041 You can get the infinite, 1661 00:30:19,041 --> 00:30:21,208 the over 21 million, this, 1662 00:30:21,208 --> 00:30:22,916 special plates. 1663 00:30:22,916 --> 00:30:24,416 But we collaborated 1664 00:30:24,416 --> 00:30:26,416 with them and, making, 1665 00:30:27,708 --> 00:30:29,125 use code Infinity for 1666 00:30:29,125 --> 00:30:30,375 a discount. 1667 00:30:30,375 --> 00:30:32,000 Same thing goes for 1668 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:32,750 our favorite 1669 00:30:32,750 --> 00:30:34,875 hardware, Walmart B big box. 1670 00:30:34,875 --> 00:30:36,291 So to the spirit 1671 00:30:36,291 --> 00:30:37,333 box, dot Swiss. 1672 00:30:37,333 --> 00:30:39,958 So get that, 1673 00:30:39,958 --> 00:30:41,666 the Bitcoin advisor 1674 00:30:41,666 --> 00:30:42,833 for bitcoin inheritance 1675 00:30:42,833 --> 00:30:43,958 planning and so on 1676 00:30:43,958 --> 00:30:44,583 and so forth. 1677 00:30:44,583 --> 00:30:46,291 And the general advice 1678 00:30:46,291 --> 00:30:48,208 Bitcoin advisor.com. 1679 00:30:48,208 --> 00:30:48,875 And make sure 1680 00:30:48,875 --> 00:30:49,916 to like subscribe 1681 00:30:49,916 --> 00:30:50,791 and brush your feet 1682 00:30:50,791 --> 00:30:51,416 and all that 1683 00:30:51,416 --> 00:30:53,750 for the Bitcoin infinity.com 1684 00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:55,041 and get some stuff 1685 00:30:55,041 --> 00:30:56,875 and some books. 1686 00:30:56,875 --> 00:30:59,291 Great to have you here. 1687 00:30:59,291 --> 00:30:59,833 I, I'm 1688 00:30:59,833 --> 00:31:01,041 not sure that people outside 1689 00:31:01,041 --> 00:31:02,208 of the mining industry 1690 00:31:02,208 --> 00:31:03,500 really understand 1691 00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:05,750 how important it is 1692 00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:07,666 for as a driver for, 1693 00:31:07,666 --> 00:31:09,208 for Bitcoin generally. 1694 00:31:09,208 --> 00:31:10,875 And I mean, I think there's a 1695 00:31:10,875 --> 00:31:12,958 there's a perception that, 1696 00:31:12,958 --> 00:31:17,416 bitcoin as used by users, 1697 00:31:18,458 --> 00:31:20,541 maybe, maybe not necessarily 1698 00:31:20,541 --> 00:31:21,500 even the ones 1699 00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:22,125 who are running 1700 00:31:22,125 --> 00:31:22,750 their own node 1701 00:31:22,750 --> 00:31:23,958 and have full self-custody, 1702 00:31:23,958 --> 00:31:24,916 but just, 1703 00:31:24,916 --> 00:31:25,833 you know, use the 1704 00:31:25,833 --> 00:31:27,583 Lightning Network somehow. 1705 00:31:28,791 --> 00:31:29,625 Maybe they don't really 1706 00:31:29,625 --> 00:31:30,958 see what, 1707 00:31:30,958 --> 00:31:32,750 what the impact of mining 1708 00:31:32,750 --> 00:31:34,583 is on on what they're doing 1709 00:31:34,583 --> 00:31:35,125 and the reasons 1710 00:31:35,125 --> 00:31:36,458 why it's important. 1711 00:31:36,458 --> 00:31:39,666 But it's interesting. 1712 00:31:39,666 --> 00:31:40,250 It's interesting 1713 00:31:40,250 --> 00:31:40,958 that you say that, 1714 00:31:40,958 --> 00:31:42,208 that there's an impact 1715 00:31:42,208 --> 00:31:43,333 even towards the, 1716 00:31:43,333 --> 00:31:44,750 the regulatory angle. 1717 00:31:44,750 --> 00:31:46,041 And, 1718 00:31:46,041 --> 00:31:47,750 I guess I guess I'm curious, 1719 00:31:47,750 --> 00:31:49,041 what do you think in general, 1720 00:31:49,041 --> 00:31:50,208 the trend is going to be over 1721 00:31:50,208 --> 00:31:51,083 these next few years 1722 00:31:51,083 --> 00:31:51,958 in terms of, 1723 00:31:51,958 --> 00:31:52,458 in terms 1724 00:31:52,458 --> 00:31:53,541 of regulation, because, 1725 00:31:53,541 --> 00:31:55,875 as you were saying 1726 00:31:55,875 --> 00:31:57,791 that, that these trend of, 1727 00:31:57,791 --> 00:31:59,083 of strategic 1728 00:31:59,083 --> 00:32:00,083 Bitcoin reserves 1729 00:32:00,083 --> 00:32:02,250 of, of friendly 1730 00:32:02,250 --> 00:32:05,458 or unfriendly regulation, 1731 00:32:05,458 --> 00:32:08,458 but in, in the bull 1732 00:32:08,458 --> 00:32:08,833 market 1733 00:32:08,833 --> 00:32:10,000 that is still theoretically 1734 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:11,791 just getting started. 1735 00:32:11,791 --> 00:32:12,458 Number go up 1736 00:32:12,458 --> 00:32:14,000 is going to do its thing. 1737 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,291 And, and so it's it's 1738 00:32:15,291 --> 00:32:17,208 a really unclear time 1739 00:32:17,208 --> 00:32:18,083 over the next 1740 00:32:18,083 --> 00:32:19,458 couple of years. 1741 00:32:19,458 --> 00:32:20,750 What do you think 1742 00:32:20,750 --> 00:32:22,250 is is going to happen 1743 00:32:22,250 --> 00:32:23,625 as, as numbers go up 1744 00:32:23,625 --> 00:32:24,458 does its thing 1745 00:32:24,458 --> 00:32:26,083 and, and regulators start to 1746 00:32:26,083 --> 00:32:27,500 take more interest generally. 1747 00:32:29,208 --> 00:32:29,833 And it's it's hard 1748 00:32:29,833 --> 00:32:30,833 to it's hard to tell. 1749 00:32:30,833 --> 00:32:31,750 I just off the bat 1750 00:32:31,750 --> 00:32:32,541 like a lot of 1751 00:32:32,541 --> 00:32:33,500 these prognostications 1752 00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:34,708 that we could do 1753 00:32:34,708 --> 00:32:35,666 or we have done, 1754 00:32:35,666 --> 00:32:36,125 especially on 1755 00:32:36,125 --> 00:32:37,458 the gun has been 1756 00:32:37,458 --> 00:32:37,791 thought out 1757 00:32:37,791 --> 00:32:38,375 wrong for 1758 00:32:38,375 --> 00:32:39,250 a variety of reasons. 1759 00:32:39,250 --> 00:32:40,291 But most of the time 1760 00:32:40,291 --> 00:32:41,333 it's been 1761 00:32:41,333 --> 00:32:42,500 wrong for the right reasons. 1762 00:32:42,500 --> 00:32:43,791 So specifically, 1763 00:32:43,791 --> 00:32:44,708 a lot of us early on 1764 00:32:44,708 --> 00:32:46,791 didn't think this far along, 1765 00:32:46,791 --> 00:32:47,750 and a lot of the thinking 1766 00:32:47,750 --> 00:32:48,166 that we had 1767 00:32:48,166 --> 00:32:48,750 was probably like 1768 00:32:48,750 --> 00:32:49,708 a ten year trajectory 1769 00:32:49,708 --> 00:32:50,208 to get to where 1770 00:32:50,208 --> 00:32:50,875 we are currently. 1771 00:32:50,875 --> 00:32:52,041 So I say 1772 00:32:52,041 --> 00:32:53,166 Africa is one of those parts 1773 00:32:53,166 --> 00:32:54,791 where 1774 00:32:54,791 --> 00:32:56,666 just the sheer lack of a 1775 00:32:56,666 --> 00:32:57,916 lot of these infrastructure 1776 00:32:57,916 --> 00:32:59,625 really, that is needed 1777 00:32:59,625 --> 00:33:00,833 or is seen is, 1778 00:33:00,833 --> 00:33:02,125 I guess available 1779 00:33:02,125 --> 00:33:03,041 in other parts of the world 1780 00:33:03,041 --> 00:33:03,708 that are quote unquote 1781 00:33:03,708 --> 00:33:05,041 more developed 1782 00:33:05,041 --> 00:33:05,833 is probably 1783 00:33:05,833 --> 00:33:06,666 the biggest opportunity 1784 00:33:06,666 --> 00:33:07,333 and the biggest reason 1785 00:33:07,333 --> 00:33:08,666 why it happened so fast 1786 00:33:08,666 --> 00:33:10,208 in the way it does, 1787 00:33:10,208 --> 00:33:10,791 like think of it 1788 00:33:10,791 --> 00:33:11,041 this way, 1789 00:33:11,041 --> 00:33:12,000 in the last two years, 1790 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:12,375 we've gone 1791 00:33:12,375 --> 00:33:15,500 from roughly less than 0% 1792 00:33:15,500 --> 00:33:18,083 to around like 0.1% 1793 00:33:18,083 --> 00:33:19,333 in terms of mining hashrate, 1794 00:33:19,333 --> 00:33:20,291 all the way up to three point 1795 00:33:20,291 --> 00:33:20,958 something percent. 1796 00:33:20,958 --> 00:33:23,416 So I think in terms of the 1797 00:33:23,416 --> 00:33:24,375 the adoption, 1798 00:33:24,375 --> 00:33:24,958 I think 1799 00:33:24,958 --> 00:33:25,666 even looking back 1800 00:33:25,666 --> 00:33:26,916 five years ago, where 1801 00:33:26,916 --> 00:33:27,958 and it wasn't really actually 1802 00:33:27,958 --> 00:33:29,083 that high 1803 00:33:29,083 --> 00:33:29,625 all the way up 1804 00:33:29,625 --> 00:33:30,958 to where it is right now 1805 00:33:30,958 --> 00:33:31,666 in terms of what's 1806 00:33:31,666 --> 00:33:34,125 leading adoption, 1807 00:33:34,125 --> 00:33:34,791 Africa leading 1808 00:33:34,791 --> 00:33:35,625 mining in terms 1809 00:33:35,625 --> 00:33:36,958 of green energy, 1810 00:33:36,958 --> 00:33:38,750 the green energy revolutions. 1811 00:33:38,750 --> 00:33:39,500 And then lastly, 1812 00:33:39,500 --> 00:33:40,208 just looking at 1813 00:33:40,208 --> 00:33:41,333 even the developer base 1814 00:33:41,333 --> 00:33:41,916 in Africa 1815 00:33:41,916 --> 00:33:43,250 has gone from there's 1816 00:33:43,250 --> 00:33:44,416 no such thing 1817 00:33:44,416 --> 00:33:45,416 as when we first started 1818 00:33:45,416 --> 00:33:46,541 getting more open spaces, 1819 00:33:46,541 --> 00:33:47,166 like an African 1820 00:33:47,166 --> 00:33:48,166 Bitcoin ecosystem 1821 00:33:48,166 --> 00:33:49,291 or an African 1822 00:33:49,291 --> 00:33:50,083 bitcoin development 1823 00:33:50,083 --> 00:33:50,708 ecosystem, 1824 00:33:50,708 --> 00:33:51,500 all the way up to 1825 00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:52,875 having developers 1826 00:33:52,875 --> 00:33:53,375 come from 1827 00:33:53,375 --> 00:33:54,750 this part of the world, 1828 00:33:54,750 --> 00:33:56,416 I think in the next two, 1829 00:33:56,416 --> 00:33:58,166 three, possibly five years, 1830 00:33:58,166 --> 00:33:59,083 we're likely going to see 1831 00:33:59,083 --> 00:34:00,083 like three things. 1832 00:34:00,083 --> 00:34:01,583 One is 1833 00:34:01,583 --> 00:34:01,958 a lot more 1834 00:34:01,958 --> 00:34:02,958 regulatory clarity, 1835 00:34:02,958 --> 00:34:03,583 and I think 1836 00:34:03,583 --> 00:34:04,458 we have the opportunity 1837 00:34:04,458 --> 00:34:05,375 to do two things. 1838 00:34:05,375 --> 00:34:06,833 One is, as Bitcoiners 1839 00:34:06,833 --> 00:34:07,791 approach regulators 1840 00:34:07,791 --> 00:34:08,833 in a more sensible way 1841 00:34:08,833 --> 00:34:09,583 than previous 1842 00:34:09,583 --> 00:34:10,583 have been doing in terms of 1843 00:34:10,583 --> 00:34:12,208 just being completely 1844 00:34:12,208 --> 00:34:14,166 antagonistic or 1845 00:34:14,166 --> 00:34:15,541 hand-waving, because, 1846 00:34:15,541 --> 00:34:16,166 yeah, a lot of us 1847 00:34:16,166 --> 00:34:16,875 that are more savvy 1848 00:34:16,875 --> 00:34:17,416 with Bitcoin 1849 00:34:17,416 --> 00:34:18,250 will still have access 1850 00:34:18,250 --> 00:34:19,500 to Bitcoin internally 1851 00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:20,750 under the same keys. 1852 00:34:20,750 --> 00:34:21,125 For people 1853 00:34:21,125 --> 00:34:22,041 that really understand 1854 00:34:22,041 --> 00:34:22,583 Bitcoin 1855 00:34:22,583 --> 00:34:23,541 and can can use it 1856 00:34:23,541 --> 00:34:24,500 and can self-custody, 1857 00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:25,500 but the vast 1858 00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:26,416 majority of people, 1859 00:34:26,416 --> 00:34:27,375 they'll likely be hindered 1860 00:34:27,375 --> 00:34:28,416 by a lot of these rails 1861 00:34:28,416 --> 00:34:29,250 being stopped 1862 00:34:29,250 --> 00:34:30,583 from government address 1863 00:34:30,583 --> 00:34:31,541 any kind of regulation. 1864 00:34:31,541 --> 00:34:33,708 So it is incumbent on us to 1865 00:34:33,708 --> 00:34:34,375 fully understand 1866 00:34:34,375 --> 00:34:35,333 exactly what's going on, 1867 00:34:35,333 --> 00:34:36,041 or at least are 1868 00:34:36,041 --> 00:34:36,916 fully involved for it 1869 00:34:36,916 --> 00:34:37,791 so long, to 1870 00:34:37,791 --> 00:34:38,416 kind of approach it 1871 00:34:38,416 --> 00:34:39,875 more holistically, to ensure 1872 00:34:39,875 --> 00:34:40,666 that there are a lot 1873 00:34:40,666 --> 00:34:41,625 of protections specific 1874 00:34:41,625 --> 00:34:42,250 to making sure 1875 00:34:42,250 --> 00:34:43,416 that self-custody 1876 00:34:43,416 --> 00:34:44,625 is not in jeopardy, 1877 00:34:44,625 --> 00:34:45,458 making sure that people 1878 00:34:45,458 --> 00:34:46,708 still have a proper bridge 1879 00:34:46,708 --> 00:34:48,666 that's necessarily on 24/7. 1880 00:34:48,666 --> 00:34:49,375 The same with Bitcoin 1881 00:34:49,375 --> 00:34:50,958 is tied to get involved with 1882 00:34:50,958 --> 00:34:51,958 some of these risky parts 1883 00:34:51,958 --> 00:34:52,666 of Self-custody 1884 00:34:52,666 --> 00:34:53,333 all the way up to, 1885 00:34:55,083 --> 00:34:55,458 some of these 1886 00:34:55,458 --> 00:34:57,083 risky parts of, 1887 00:34:57,083 --> 00:34:58,125 custodians, 1888 00:34:58,125 --> 00:34:59,416 not self-custody. 1889 00:34:59,416 --> 00:35:01,083 So I'd say that would be one, 1890 00:35:01,083 --> 00:35:01,875 one way to approach it. 1891 00:35:01,875 --> 00:35:02,750 I think the second way 1892 00:35:02,750 --> 00:35:03,208 is from 1893 00:35:03,208 --> 00:35:05,083 the regulatory standpoint, 1894 00:35:05,083 --> 00:35:05,916 because we don't have 1895 00:35:05,916 --> 00:35:07,708 as much regulatory baggage. 1896 00:35:07,708 --> 00:35:08,333 I say really 1897 00:35:08,333 --> 00:35:09,250 most of our regulations 1898 00:35:09,250 --> 00:35:09,916 pretty much translate 1899 00:35:09,916 --> 00:35:10,500 to regulation 1900 00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:11,041 from other 1901 00:35:11,041 --> 00:35:12,166 parts of the world. 1902 00:35:12,166 --> 00:35:12,750 I think we have 1903 00:35:12,750 --> 00:35:13,458 the opportunity 1904 00:35:13,458 --> 00:35:15,166 to craft novel regulation 1905 00:35:15,166 --> 00:35:15,666 in the sense 1906 00:35:15,666 --> 00:35:17,208 that it would be devoid of 1907 00:35:17,208 --> 00:35:18,041 some of the issues 1908 00:35:18,041 --> 00:35:18,500 that we're seeing 1909 00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:19,500 from other regulators 1910 00:35:19,500 --> 00:35:19,916 around the world, 1911 00:35:19,916 --> 00:35:20,750 whether it's the mica 1912 00:35:20,750 --> 00:35:21,708 regulation in Europe 1913 00:35:21,708 --> 00:35:23,500 or some of the other parts, 1914 00:35:23,500 --> 00:35:24,916 and in North America 1915 00:35:24,916 --> 00:35:26,416 with know our cliffs 1916 00:35:26,416 --> 00:35:27,458 and things like that. 1917 00:35:27,458 --> 00:35:29,250 I think for us it would be 1918 00:35:29,250 --> 00:35:30,291 we have the opportunity 1919 00:35:30,291 --> 00:35:31,125 to say, no, there would be, 1920 00:35:31,125 --> 00:35:32,083 but we have the opportunity 1921 00:35:32,083 --> 00:35:33,500 to really define 1922 00:35:33,500 --> 00:35:35,083 regulation from, 1923 00:35:35,083 --> 00:35:36,791 first principles standpoint, 1924 00:35:36,791 --> 00:35:37,916 where we're looking at 1925 00:35:37,916 --> 00:35:38,708 what is the benefit 1926 00:35:38,708 --> 00:35:39,625 on a national level, 1927 00:35:39,625 --> 00:35:40,333 what is the benefit 1928 00:35:40,333 --> 00:35:41,250 on a strategic level 1929 00:35:41,250 --> 00:35:41,541 for us, 1930 00:35:41,541 --> 00:35:42,375 economically speaking? 1931 00:35:42,375 --> 00:35:43,625 And how can we use this 1932 00:35:43,625 --> 00:35:44,416 to achieve better 1933 00:35:44,416 --> 00:35:45,416 the economic standpoint 1934 00:35:45,416 --> 00:35:46,166 or the outlook 1935 00:35:46,166 --> 00:35:47,416 for a lot of these countries? 1936 00:35:47,416 --> 00:35:48,500 And I think the other two 1937 00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:49,625 things I should see is 1938 00:35:50,666 --> 00:35:50,958 we're still 1939 00:35:50,958 --> 00:35:52,333 going to be 1940 00:35:52,333 --> 00:35:53,333 and this is my 1941 00:35:53,333 --> 00:35:54,083 personal guess. 1942 00:35:54,083 --> 00:35:55,500 And my full conviction 1943 00:35:55,500 --> 00:35:56,500 really, is that 1944 00:35:56,500 --> 00:35:57,500 Africa will be leading 1945 00:35:57,500 --> 00:35:58,583 Bitcoin development, too. 1946 00:35:58,583 --> 00:35:59,458 And I think that would have 1947 00:35:59,458 --> 00:36:00,291 huge, probably 1948 00:36:00,291 --> 00:36:01,250 even bigger implications 1949 00:36:01,250 --> 00:36:02,333 than Bitcoin mining 1950 00:36:02,333 --> 00:36:03,041 when we think of it 1951 00:36:03,041 --> 00:36:03,625 both from a 1952 00:36:03,625 --> 00:36:04,541 strategic standpoint 1953 00:36:04,541 --> 00:36:05,500 for the continent in terms 1954 00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:06,083 of making sure 1955 00:36:06,083 --> 00:36:07,583 that they can replicate 1956 00:36:07,583 --> 00:36:08,708 the same level of resiliency 1957 00:36:08,708 --> 00:36:09,291 that require 1958 00:36:09,291 --> 00:36:09,583 for us 1959 00:36:09,583 --> 00:36:10,916 to become a prosperous 1960 00:36:10,916 --> 00:36:13,083 and abundant nature, nation, 1961 00:36:13,083 --> 00:36:14,250 but also from 1962 00:36:14,250 --> 00:36:15,625 from a practical standpoint, 1963 00:36:15,625 --> 00:36:16,333 like the more 1964 00:36:16,333 --> 00:36:17,250 folks are building 1965 00:36:17,250 --> 00:36:18,125 from this part of the world, 1966 00:36:18,125 --> 00:36:18,833 the more 1967 00:36:18,833 --> 00:36:19,875 these tools and services 1968 00:36:19,875 --> 00:36:21,375 will be fit for working 1969 00:36:21,375 --> 00:36:22,291 exceptionally well 1970 00:36:22,291 --> 00:36:23,083 in the continent. 1971 00:36:23,083 --> 00:36:23,833 So I think 1972 00:36:23,833 --> 00:36:25,041 things around Bitcoin mining 1973 00:36:25,041 --> 00:36:25,958 and obviously the debate 1974 00:36:25,958 --> 00:36:27,291 with regards to 1975 00:36:27,291 --> 00:36:28,250 decentralizing Bitcoin 1976 00:36:28,250 --> 00:36:29,250 mining in general likely 1977 00:36:29,250 --> 00:36:31,333 be a consequence of the 1978 00:36:31,333 --> 00:36:32,416 the large hoards 1979 00:36:32,416 --> 00:36:33,333 of Bitcoin developers 1980 00:36:33,333 --> 00:36:33,916 will come out of this 1981 00:36:33,916 --> 00:36:34,458 part of the world 1982 00:36:34,458 --> 00:36:35,791 where we'll likely be 1983 00:36:35,791 --> 00:36:36,583 only just leading, 1984 00:36:36,583 --> 00:36:37,083 but probably 1985 00:36:37,083 --> 00:36:38,083 dictating exactly 1986 00:36:38,083 --> 00:36:38,750 what it looks like 1987 00:36:38,750 --> 00:36:39,875 to have a Bitcoin 1988 00:36:39,875 --> 00:36:40,875 nation, quote unquote, 1989 00:36:40,875 --> 00:36:42,291 as Bitcoin mining. 1990 00:36:42,291 --> 00:36:42,916 Then obviously 1991 00:36:42,916 --> 00:36:43,333 the third party 1992 00:36:43,333 --> 00:36:44,000 should be commenting. 1993 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,083 I think 1994 00:36:45,083 --> 00:36:46,375 energy is one of those things 1995 00:36:46,375 --> 00:36:47,625 that transcends 1996 00:36:47,625 --> 00:36:48,375 all sort of, 1997 00:36:48,375 --> 00:36:49,791 I guess, cultural baggage 1998 00:36:49,791 --> 00:36:51,250 or orthodoxies 1999 00:36:51,250 --> 00:36:52,291 that people typically have 2000 00:36:52,291 --> 00:36:52,708 that are 2001 00:36:52,708 --> 00:36:53,958 antagonistic to Bitcoin 2002 00:36:53,958 --> 00:36:54,708 are generally 2003 00:36:54,708 --> 00:36:56,416 aren't as receptive 2004 00:36:56,416 --> 00:36:58,250 to Bitcoin initially because 2005 00:36:58,250 --> 00:36:59,041 it's very easy 2006 00:36:59,041 --> 00:37:00,333 to connect with Bitcoin. 2007 00:37:00,333 --> 00:37:01,625 I think this is 2008 00:37:01,625 --> 00:37:02,625 currency for criminals 2009 00:37:02,625 --> 00:37:03,833 but is very difficult 2010 00:37:03,833 --> 00:37:05,208 to deny. 2011 00:37:05,208 --> 00:37:06,083 Electrification 2012 00:37:06,083 --> 00:37:06,958 for rural areas, 2013 00:37:06,958 --> 00:37:08,000 or it's very difficult 2014 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,416 to deny a huge uptick in 2015 00:37:10,416 --> 00:37:11,500 the sheer amount of a leg 2016 00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:12,375 that electricity 2017 00:37:12,375 --> 00:37:13,708 in terms of access for people 2018 00:37:13,708 --> 00:37:14,416 that previously didn't 2019 00:37:14,416 --> 00:37:14,750 have that. 2020 00:37:14,750 --> 00:37:16,625 So I think, again, 2021 00:37:16,625 --> 00:37:17,416 because the practical 2022 00:37:17,416 --> 00:37:18,583 realities of Bitcoin mining 2023 00:37:18,583 --> 00:37:20,000 and just how quickly it is, 2024 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:21,166 you can start from zero 2025 00:37:21,166 --> 00:37:21,666 all the way up 2026 00:37:21,666 --> 00:37:23,208 to having critical mass 2027 00:37:23,208 --> 00:37:24,083 of electrification 2028 00:37:24,083 --> 00:37:24,708 around the world 2029 00:37:24,708 --> 00:37:26,750 or just around the continent, 2030 00:37:26,750 --> 00:37:27,291 probably going to be 2031 00:37:27,291 --> 00:37:28,500 another huge traverse. 2032 00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:29,333 I'd say Bitcoin 2033 00:37:29,333 --> 00:37:30,166 mining the short term 2034 00:37:30,166 --> 00:37:30,916 and then long term, 2035 00:37:30,916 --> 00:37:31,791 I think Bitcoin development 2036 00:37:31,791 --> 00:37:32,500 will outpace it in 2037 00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:33,166 terms of impact. 2038 00:37:34,750 --> 00:37:35,000 Yeah. 2039 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,791 And I mean 2040 00:37:36,791 --> 00:37:37,125 there are 2041 00:37:37,125 --> 00:37:38,041 so many things 2042 00:37:38,041 --> 00:37:39,291 that tie into this and, 2043 00:37:39,291 --> 00:37:40,583 and Africa 2044 00:37:40,583 --> 00:37:40,916 is such 2045 00:37:40,916 --> 00:37:42,250 an interesting continent, 2046 00:37:42,250 --> 00:37:43,708 from so many 2047 00:37:43,708 --> 00:37:45,000 economic perspectives. 2048 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,375 I mean, 2049 00:37:46,375 --> 00:37:47,458 it's most people 2050 00:37:47,458 --> 00:37:47,958 here in Europe 2051 00:37:47,958 --> 00:37:49,583 aren't aware of how much, 2052 00:37:49,583 --> 00:37:51,416 the banks 2053 00:37:51,416 --> 00:37:52,250 and central banks 2054 00:37:52,250 --> 00:37:53,625 of, of the Western world 2055 00:37:53,625 --> 00:37:54,583 have been screwing 2056 00:37:54,583 --> 00:37:56,000 you guys over, 2057 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,583 through the IMF and stuff 2058 00:37:57,583 --> 00:37:58,125 and the 2059 00:37:58,125 --> 00:37:59,333 monetary apartheid 2060 00:37:59,333 --> 00:37:59,958 that goes on, 2061 00:37:59,958 --> 00:38:01,125 which is basically 2062 00:38:01,125 --> 00:38:01,875 just vulgar. 2063 00:38:01,875 --> 00:38:02,833 It's just 2064 00:38:02,833 --> 00:38:03,416 like, in 2065 00:38:03,416 --> 00:38:05,041 a very sneaky way, 2066 00:38:05,041 --> 00:38:06,708 stripped African countries 2067 00:38:06,708 --> 00:38:07,666 of the resources 2068 00:38:07,666 --> 00:38:08,333 and grabbing them 2069 00:38:08,333 --> 00:38:09,041 for ourselves. 2070 00:38:09,041 --> 00:38:10,000 And like Bitcoin 2071 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,000 is a true chance at, 2072 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:13,125 getting out of that. 2073 00:38:13,125 --> 00:38:14,000 So so 2074 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:14,750 my question 2075 00:38:14,750 --> 00:38:15,583 here would be like 2076 00:38:15,583 --> 00:38:16,833 how aware are 2077 00:38:16,833 --> 00:38:19,125 are the people you talk to? 2078 00:38:19,125 --> 00:38:20,208 Like how aware are 2079 00:38:20,208 --> 00:38:21,833 people in general of of 2080 00:38:23,083 --> 00:38:23,708 that they 2081 00:38:23,708 --> 00:38:25,125 are being screwed over 2082 00:38:25,125 --> 00:38:26,708 by the monetary systems? 2083 00:38:26,708 --> 00:38:27,458 I mean, 2084 00:38:27,458 --> 00:38:29,333 from a Nigerian perspective, 2085 00:38:29,333 --> 00:38:30,833 but perhaps also 2086 00:38:30,833 --> 00:38:32,208 from a more general 2087 00:38:32,208 --> 00:38:33,166 African perspective. 2088 00:38:33,166 --> 00:38:35,500 What what do you see? 2089 00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:36,166 I think generally 2090 00:38:36,166 --> 00:38:37,291 a lot of people are 2091 00:38:37,291 --> 00:38:38,000 more self-aware 2092 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:38,750 about how wealth 2093 00:38:38,750 --> 00:38:39,750 I place in the world 2094 00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:41,541 as a result of a lot of 2095 00:38:41,541 --> 00:38:42,375 issues with the crisis, 2096 00:38:42,375 --> 00:38:43,458 especially in Nigeria. 2097 00:38:43,458 --> 00:38:44,500 Yes, being an 2098 00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:45,875 engine is itself 2099 00:38:45,875 --> 00:38:47,208 kind of a huge liability 2100 00:38:47,208 --> 00:38:48,166 if you're trying to interact 2101 00:38:48,166 --> 00:38:49,625 with the rest of the world. 2102 00:38:49,625 --> 00:38:50,958 I mean, all the way from 2103 00:38:50,958 --> 00:38:52,666 actual travel visas 2104 00:38:52,666 --> 00:38:53,166 all the way up 2105 00:38:53,166 --> 00:38:54,291 to a bank account, 2106 00:38:54,291 --> 00:38:55,250 starting businesses, 2107 00:38:55,250 --> 00:38:56,000 all that kind of stuff. 2108 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,333 So I think a lot of people 2109 00:38:57,333 --> 00:38:58,625 already are aware, like, 2110 00:38:58,625 --> 00:38:59,250 it doesn't take 2111 00:38:59,250 --> 00:39:00,416 too long as a manager 2112 00:39:00,416 --> 00:39:00,916 to know that 2113 00:39:00,916 --> 00:39:01,583 you're a Nigerian 2114 00:39:03,083 --> 00:39:03,291 and the 2115 00:39:03,291 --> 00:39:04,625 consequences of that, 2116 00:39:04,625 --> 00:39:05,333 I think more so 2117 00:39:05,333 --> 00:39:07,333 on the economic side. 2118 00:39:07,333 --> 00:39:08,416 We're definitely fully aware 2119 00:39:08,416 --> 00:39:09,375 of where we are 2120 00:39:09,375 --> 00:39:10,750 in terms of having 2121 00:39:10,750 --> 00:39:11,750 extractive policies, 2122 00:39:11,750 --> 00:39:14,291 and it's kind of twofold like 2123 00:39:14,291 --> 00:39:14,833 it's definitely 2124 00:39:14,833 --> 00:39:15,458 one of those things 2125 00:39:15,458 --> 00:39:16,791 where it's, 2126 00:39:16,791 --> 00:39:18,000 it's a mutual symbiosis 2127 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:18,583 in my opinion. 2128 00:39:18,583 --> 00:39:19,041 A lot of people 2129 00:39:19,041 --> 00:39:19,625 are aware of that. 2130 00:39:19,625 --> 00:39:21,041 So one side 2131 00:39:21,041 --> 00:39:22,666 is obviously folks coming in 2132 00:39:22,666 --> 00:39:23,208 to extract 2133 00:39:23,208 --> 00:39:23,916 all the opportunity 2134 00:39:23,916 --> 00:39:24,583 and then turn around 2135 00:39:24,583 --> 00:39:26,625 and say the, 2136 00:39:26,625 --> 00:39:28,000 the nation is kind of poor 2137 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,958 and destitute, which 2138 00:39:29,958 --> 00:39:30,666 it's akin 2139 00:39:30,666 --> 00:39:31,875 to having rich people 2140 00:39:31,875 --> 00:39:33,000 always going to a dumpster 2141 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:34,416 to pretty much increase 2142 00:39:34,416 --> 00:39:34,875 their wealth. 2143 00:39:34,875 --> 00:39:35,875 Like it makes no sense. 2144 00:39:35,875 --> 00:39:36,833 So there's definitely 2145 00:39:36,833 --> 00:39:37,583 no truth to 2146 00:39:37,583 --> 00:39:38,250 to the whole 2147 00:39:38,250 --> 00:39:39,875 it being a poor continent, 2148 00:39:39,875 --> 00:39:40,958 because 2149 00:39:40,958 --> 00:39:41,625 you wouldn't necessarily 2150 00:39:41,625 --> 00:39:42,291 be extracting 2151 00:39:42,291 --> 00:39:44,083 well from a poor continent. 2152 00:39:44,083 --> 00:39:44,958 And I think the other 2153 00:39:44,958 --> 00:39:45,458 the other part 2154 00:39:45,458 --> 00:39:46,125 I should mention that 2155 00:39:46,125 --> 00:39:47,083 a lot of people are aware of 2156 00:39:47,083 --> 00:39:48,291 is that 2157 00:39:48,291 --> 00:39:49,500 which is why is mutual. 2158 00:39:49,500 --> 00:39:50,041 My opinion 2159 00:39:50,041 --> 00:39:51,375 is a lot of the folks 2160 00:39:51,375 --> 00:39:51,833 on the ground 2161 00:39:51,833 --> 00:39:52,583 that already see 2162 00:39:52,583 --> 00:39:54,708 this chaos that we've created 2163 00:39:54,708 --> 00:39:55,583 over the 2164 00:39:55,583 --> 00:39:56,416 last couple of decades, 2165 00:39:56,416 --> 00:39:57,250 I see, 2166 00:39:57,250 --> 00:40:00,166 because of a century ish, is 2167 00:40:00,166 --> 00:40:00,791 because there's 2168 00:40:00,791 --> 00:40:01,583 so many things 2169 00:40:01,583 --> 00:40:02,875 that are not working 2170 00:40:02,875 --> 00:40:04,125 well on the continent, 2171 00:40:04,125 --> 00:40:05,041 all the way from governance 2172 00:40:05,041 --> 00:40:06,583 to economics. 2173 00:40:06,583 --> 00:40:08,416 A lot of people have 2174 00:40:08,416 --> 00:40:10,083 gone into 2175 00:40:10,083 --> 00:40:11,458 what I would see is like the 2176 00:40:12,666 --> 00:40:13,291 rent seeking 2177 00:40:13,291 --> 00:40:14,208 class, which is 2178 00:40:14,208 --> 00:40:16,125 pretty much a class of folks 2179 00:40:16,125 --> 00:40:16,791 in Africa 2180 00:40:16,791 --> 00:40:18,375 who use Africa 2181 00:40:18,375 --> 00:40:19,375 as a general banner 2182 00:40:19,375 --> 00:40:20,958 to masquerade, 2183 00:40:20,958 --> 00:40:21,583 as trying to help 2184 00:40:21,583 --> 00:40:22,166 the continent, 2185 00:40:22,166 --> 00:40:22,708 but really, 2186 00:40:22,708 --> 00:40:23,083 how they're doing 2187 00:40:23,083 --> 00:40:24,708 is using Africa as this, 2188 00:40:24,708 --> 00:40:25,625 marketing campaign 2189 00:40:25,625 --> 00:40:26,833 for them to either 2190 00:40:26,833 --> 00:40:27,375 reach some sales 2191 00:40:27,375 --> 00:40:29,541 personally or get get into, 2192 00:40:29,541 --> 00:40:30,708 I guess 2193 00:40:30,708 --> 00:40:31,458 all the other rooms 2194 00:40:31,458 --> 00:40:31,916 and places 2195 00:40:31,916 --> 00:40:33,625 where, folks make decisions 2196 00:40:33,625 --> 00:40:34,041 about where 2197 00:40:34,041 --> 00:40:34,875 they're extracting 2198 00:40:34,875 --> 00:40:35,958 resources from Africa. 2199 00:40:35,958 --> 00:40:37,250 So this is mutual 2200 00:40:37,250 --> 00:40:37,666 in the sense 2201 00:40:37,666 --> 00:40:38,125 that both from 2202 00:40:38,125 --> 00:40:38,833 the outside, there's 2203 00:40:38,833 --> 00:40:40,000 this obvious 2204 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:40,875 opportunity to you 2205 00:40:40,875 --> 00:40:42,083 Africans potential 2206 00:40:42,083 --> 00:40:42,416 where it's 2207 00:40:42,416 --> 00:40:44,000 been completely extracted. 2208 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:44,583 But internally, 2209 00:40:44,583 --> 00:40:46,000 there are a lot of folks that 2210 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,000 I shouldn't say really a lot, 2211 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:48,291 but they're folks 2212 00:40:48,291 --> 00:40:48,958 that are in places 2213 00:40:48,958 --> 00:40:49,583 where they could do 2214 00:40:49,583 --> 00:40:50,416 a lot more damage 2215 00:40:50,416 --> 00:40:51,208 than just 2216 00:40:51,208 --> 00:40:51,833 a critical mass 2217 00:40:51,833 --> 00:40:53,416 of like people 2218 00:40:53,416 --> 00:40:54,666 that do indulge themselves 2219 00:40:54,666 --> 00:40:56,291 in this as well, in terms of 2220 00:40:56,291 --> 00:40:57,166 just trying to make a quick 2221 00:40:57,166 --> 00:40:58,083 buck off of their own 2222 00:40:58,083 --> 00:40:58,875 continent as well. 2223 00:40:58,875 --> 00:41:00,750 So that is a mix of the two, 2224 00:41:00,750 --> 00:41:01,125 which is why 2225 00:41:01,125 --> 00:41:02,125 it's very complex 2226 00:41:02,125 --> 00:41:03,583 in terms of rooting out 2227 00:41:03,583 --> 00:41:04,333 corruption fully 2228 00:41:04,333 --> 00:41:05,458 and over the years, 2229 00:41:05,458 --> 00:41:06,500 I've come to realize that 2230 00:41:06,500 --> 00:41:08,333 corruption isn't necessarily 2231 00:41:08,333 --> 00:41:09,500 the biggest issue in Africa 2232 00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:09,833 is really 2233 00:41:09,833 --> 00:41:11,583 that the whole renting class 2234 00:41:11,583 --> 00:41:12,833 and the 2235 00:41:12,833 --> 00:41:14,041 class of entitled folks 2236 00:41:14,041 --> 00:41:15,000 also on the continent 2237 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:16,250 and just a class of folks 2238 00:41:16,250 --> 00:41:16,958 that feel 2239 00:41:16,958 --> 00:41:17,416 the status 2240 00:41:17,416 --> 00:41:18,333 quo is good enough 2241 00:41:18,333 --> 00:41:19,041 for them, given 2242 00:41:19,041 --> 00:41:20,000 the fact that they continue 2243 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:20,750 to enrich themselves. 2244 00:41:20,750 --> 00:41:21,833 I pretty much don't care 2245 00:41:21,833 --> 00:41:22,791 about the next generation. 2246 00:41:22,791 --> 00:41:23,833 I think that's a bigger issue 2247 00:41:23,833 --> 00:41:24,666 than corruption, because 2248 00:41:25,666 --> 00:41:26,541 corruption is a general 2249 00:41:26,541 --> 00:41:27,625 problem for all countries. 2250 00:41:27,625 --> 00:41:29,208 So does it make sense for it 2251 00:41:29,208 --> 00:41:30,291 to be zoned in 2252 00:41:30,291 --> 00:41:30,958 as one of the reasons 2253 00:41:30,958 --> 00:41:32,083 why we're not 2254 00:41:32,083 --> 00:41:33,041 where we're supposed to be? 2255 00:41:33,041 --> 00:41:33,791 Because other parts 2256 00:41:33,791 --> 00:41:34,083 are also 2257 00:41:34,083 --> 00:41:35,000 corrupt, undeveloped. 2258 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,166 So I don't think there's 2259 00:41:36,166 --> 00:41:37,083 that main issue 2260 00:41:37,083 --> 00:41:37,708 that a lot of people 2261 00:41:37,708 --> 00:41:38,791 hamper on on the continent. 2262 00:41:38,791 --> 00:41:40,500 But essentially my $0.02 2263 00:41:40,500 --> 00:41:40,875 when it comes 2264 00:41:40,875 --> 00:41:42,291 to that conversation, 2265 00:41:42,291 --> 00:41:42,625 I mean, 2266 00:41:42,625 --> 00:41:44,916 from a certain, angle 2267 00:41:44,916 --> 00:41:46,416 that is corruption, right? 2268 00:41:46,416 --> 00:41:47,958 But like using 2269 00:41:47,958 --> 00:41:48,958 state resources 2270 00:41:48,958 --> 00:41:50,000 for your own, like, 2271 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:50,875 like there's 2272 00:41:50,875 --> 00:41:53,875 no way to, to use, 2273 00:41:54,833 --> 00:41:55,583 you know, 2274 00:41:55,583 --> 00:41:57,833 the money 2275 00:41:57,833 --> 00:41:59,583 gained from theft as, 2276 00:41:59,583 --> 00:42:00,708 as for anything 2277 00:42:00,708 --> 00:42:01,750 without really 2278 00:42:01,750 --> 00:42:02,416 being corrupt, 2279 00:42:02,416 --> 00:42:03,375 like, at some level. 2280 00:42:03,375 --> 00:42:04,250 Like, where do you draw 2281 00:42:04,250 --> 00:42:05,625 the line? 2282 00:42:05,625 --> 00:42:06,958 There's always, 2283 00:42:06,958 --> 00:42:08,541 I always struggle with his 2284 00:42:08,541 --> 00:42:09,500 questions, like, 2285 00:42:10,833 --> 00:42:12,458 if it's tax funded, isn't 2286 00:42:12,458 --> 00:42:13,000 it corrupt 2287 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,083 by its very nature? 2288 00:42:14,083 --> 00:42:15,916 I mean, there's. 2289 00:42:15,916 --> 00:42:18,291 Yeah, long in the Congo. 2290 00:42:18,291 --> 00:42:20,000 Yeah. 2291 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:20,916 Well, I mean, think of it 2292 00:42:20,916 --> 00:42:21,208 this way. 2293 00:42:21,208 --> 00:42:22,250 Like it'd be told 2294 00:42:22,250 --> 00:42:23,583 if we did have 2295 00:42:23,583 --> 00:42:24,125 the institutions 2296 00:42:24,125 --> 00:42:25,125 of governance that worked 2297 00:42:25,125 --> 00:42:27,416 well in terms of 2298 00:42:27,416 --> 00:42:28,916 succession plans with regards 2299 00:42:28,916 --> 00:42:29,458 to actually being 2300 00:42:29,458 --> 00:42:30,375 a proper democracy. 2301 00:42:30,375 --> 00:42:31,750 I think a lot of the issues 2302 00:42:31,750 --> 00:42:32,791 will be 2303 00:42:32,791 --> 00:42:33,708 not as difficult 2304 00:42:33,708 --> 00:42:35,041 as they actually are 2305 00:42:35,041 --> 00:42:36,000 in terms of just the sheer 2306 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:37,458 mix of convolution 2307 00:42:37,458 --> 00:42:38,041 on the continent. 2308 00:42:38,041 --> 00:42:38,708 So that's what I mean. 2309 00:42:38,708 --> 00:42:39,125 Typically, 2310 00:42:39,125 --> 00:42:40,208 when I say corruption 2311 00:42:40,208 --> 00:42:41,000 isn't the only thing, 2312 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:41,500 because if we had 2313 00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:42,750 strong institutions, 2314 00:42:42,750 --> 00:42:43,416 a lot of the corruption 2315 00:42:43,416 --> 00:42:44,416 would naturally be weeded out 2316 00:42:44,416 --> 00:42:44,916 by the fact 2317 00:42:44,916 --> 00:42:46,000 that there is structure. 2318 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,000 The lack of structure is why 2319 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,125 there is this man 2320 00:42:48,125 --> 00:42:49,333 to show corruption going on. 2321 00:42:50,958 --> 00:42:51,541 Yeah. 2322 00:42:51,541 --> 00:42:53,625 I saw a 2323 00:42:53,625 --> 00:42:55,250 documentary about my diarrhea 2324 00:42:55,250 --> 00:42:56,416 once where they had to. 2325 00:42:56,416 --> 00:42:57,708 They were interviewing 2326 00:42:57,708 --> 00:42:58,583 the minister, 2327 00:42:58,583 --> 00:43:01,583 who was, tasked with, 2328 00:43:01,583 --> 00:43:02,791 dealing with the corruption. 2329 00:43:02,791 --> 00:43:04,125 And they had to bribe 2330 00:43:04,125 --> 00:43:05,833 his guards to get in, 2331 00:43:05,833 --> 00:43:06,791 get the building 2332 00:43:06,791 --> 00:43:08,375 into the interview, and then. 2333 00:43:08,375 --> 00:43:09,166 Father. 2334 00:43:09,166 --> 00:43:11,083 But, you know, that is. 2335 00:43:11,083 --> 00:43:11,333 Yeah. 2336 00:43:11,333 --> 00:43:12,500 Money works in this area 2337 00:43:12,500 --> 00:43:13,750 and a lot of parts in Africa. 2338 00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:15,291 So it's 2339 00:43:15,291 --> 00:43:15,666 not always 2340 00:43:15,666 --> 00:43:17,291 for the right reasons. 2341 00:43:17,291 --> 00:43:18,750 Now, 2342 00:43:18,750 --> 00:43:20,875 oral questions. 2343 00:43:20,875 --> 00:43:23,166 Luke, do you have any. 2344 00:43:23,166 --> 00:43:23,625 Yeah. 2345 00:43:23,625 --> 00:43:24,875 No, just a, 2346 00:43:24,875 --> 00:43:26,208 ticket to continue 2347 00:43:26,208 --> 00:43:27,666 on, on this thread 2348 00:43:27,666 --> 00:43:29,000 a little bit like, 2349 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:30,041 I think a narrative 2350 00:43:30,041 --> 00:43:31,208 that's big in, 2351 00:43:31,208 --> 00:43:34,208 say more North American. 2352 00:43:35,166 --> 00:43:37,000 Western Bitcoin circles 2353 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:37,583 or even just 2354 00:43:37,583 --> 00:43:38,541 the Twittersphere 2355 00:43:38,541 --> 00:43:39,333 generally is this 2356 00:43:39,333 --> 00:43:40,208 trend towards 2357 00:43:40,208 --> 00:43:41,666 an article capitalism, 2358 00:43:41,666 --> 00:43:42,458 in other words, 2359 00:43:42,458 --> 00:43:43,541 basically the exact 2360 00:43:43,541 --> 00:43:44,416 opposite of what you're 2361 00:43:44,416 --> 00:43:44,750 what you're 2362 00:43:44,750 --> 00:43:45,666 talking about that 2363 00:43:45,666 --> 00:43:46,875 that, 2364 00:43:46,875 --> 00:43:48,500 having strong institutions 2365 00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:49,791 as, as the counter 2366 00:43:49,791 --> 00:43:51,375 to corruption on, 2367 00:43:51,375 --> 00:43:53,458 on when I say 2368 00:43:53,458 --> 00:43:54,083 cultural level, 2369 00:43:54,083 --> 00:43:54,666 I don't mean this 2370 00:43:54,666 --> 00:43:56,583 in like the, the sense of, 2371 00:43:56,583 --> 00:43:58,583 that that 2372 00:43:58,583 --> 00:43:59,541 any one part of the world 2373 00:43:59,541 --> 00:44:00,541 is particularly 2374 00:44:00,541 --> 00:44:01,041 prone to this. 2375 00:44:01,041 --> 00:44:01,708 I mean, I mean, just, 2376 00:44:01,708 --> 00:44:02,333 I mean, just that 2377 00:44:02,333 --> 00:44:03,041 in a certain place, 2378 00:44:03,041 --> 00:44:04,291 there's a, a culture 2379 00:44:04,291 --> 00:44:05,625 of strong institutions like, 2380 00:44:05,625 --> 00:44:06,166 traditional, 2381 00:44:06,166 --> 00:44:07,000 strong institutions 2382 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:07,666 as part of the better way 2383 00:44:07,666 --> 00:44:08,541 to say it. 2384 00:44:08,541 --> 00:44:09,833 And so 2385 00:44:09,833 --> 00:44:10,375 and so the, 2386 00:44:10,375 --> 00:44:11,625 the sort of the anarcho 2387 00:44:11,625 --> 00:44:12,583 capitalist, 2388 00:44:12,583 --> 00:44:14,250 ultra libertarian perspective 2389 00:44:14,250 --> 00:44:15,708 where the end goal is 2390 00:44:15,708 --> 00:44:17,166 everyone adopts Bitcoin 2391 00:44:17,166 --> 00:44:17,750 and all the 2392 00:44:17,750 --> 00:44:18,791 governments go away. 2393 00:44:20,083 --> 00:44:20,750 How do you see 2394 00:44:20,750 --> 00:44:23,708 that in practice? Maybe. 2395 00:44:23,708 --> 00:44:24,416 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 2396 00:44:24,416 --> 00:44:25,333 You're already laughing. 2397 00:44:25,333 --> 00:44:26,000 So what are your 2398 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,583 thoughts on this? 2399 00:44:27,583 --> 00:44:28,208 I mean, 2400 00:44:28,208 --> 00:44:29,083 I'd like 2401 00:44:29,083 --> 00:44:29,333 from a 2402 00:44:29,333 --> 00:44:30,333 philosophical standpoint, 2403 00:44:30,333 --> 00:44:32,166 I do 2404 00:44:32,166 --> 00:44:33,166 I do kind of sympathize 2405 00:44:33,166 --> 00:44:34,125 with the general 2406 00:44:34,125 --> 00:44:36,416 I cook up to this mindset or 2407 00:44:36,416 --> 00:44:38,291 I guess the 2408 00:44:38,291 --> 00:44:39,500 what is now the orthodoxy, 2409 00:44:39,500 --> 00:44:40,916 which is from the heterodoxy 2410 00:44:40,916 --> 00:44:41,958 generally that Bitcoin 2411 00:44:41,958 --> 00:44:43,250 was breath out of. 2412 00:44:43,250 --> 00:44:44,583 I think I totally get it. 2413 00:44:44,583 --> 00:44:45,833 I get the understanding 2414 00:44:45,833 --> 00:44:47,041 and I feel 2415 00:44:47,041 --> 00:44:47,708 free to have 2416 00:44:47,708 --> 00:44:48,791 a prosperous society. 2417 00:44:48,791 --> 00:44:49,791 Definitely have to have that 2418 00:44:49,791 --> 00:44:52,208 that level of, 2419 00:44:52,208 --> 00:44:52,666 free will 2420 00:44:52,666 --> 00:44:53,708 that's needed by the state 2421 00:44:53,708 --> 00:44:54,708 to the people 2422 00:44:54,708 --> 00:44:55,583 for it to be prosperous. 2423 00:44:55,583 --> 00:44:57,250 But at the same time, 2424 00:44:57,250 --> 00:44:59,416 I, I do recognize the, 2425 00:44:59,416 --> 00:45:01,291 the use of purpose of a state 2426 00:45:01,291 --> 00:45:01,916 in terms 2427 00:45:01,916 --> 00:45:04,125 of just keeping the quality, 2428 00:45:04,125 --> 00:45:05,458 keeping folks in check 2429 00:45:05,458 --> 00:45:06,541 and all those kind of things. 2430 00:45:06,541 --> 00:45:08,541 So I think what the guys of 2431 00:45:08,541 --> 00:45:10,000 the world like Africa, it's 2432 00:45:11,541 --> 00:45:12,625 naturally because of some of 2433 00:45:12,625 --> 00:45:13,208 the cultures 2434 00:45:13,208 --> 00:45:14,333 that we have in terms 2435 00:45:14,333 --> 00:45:16,583 of being community driven and 2436 00:45:16,583 --> 00:45:18,458 and being a lot more, 2437 00:45:18,458 --> 00:45:19,500 less about the individual 2438 00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:19,875 as it is 2439 00:45:19,875 --> 00:45:20,958 in Western parts 2440 00:45:20,958 --> 00:45:21,333 of the world. 2441 00:45:21,333 --> 00:45:22,958 The more about the community, 2442 00:45:22,958 --> 00:45:23,625 I think where you have 2443 00:45:23,625 --> 00:45:24,375 those sure 2444 00:45:24,375 --> 00:45:26,833 set of values as like a, 2445 00:45:26,833 --> 00:45:28,041 I should say a springboard 2446 00:45:28,041 --> 00:45:29,083 in which we can architect 2447 00:45:29,083 --> 00:45:29,583 a society 2448 00:45:29,583 --> 00:45:30,583 that's a lot more equitable 2449 00:45:30,583 --> 00:45:31,250 than typically 2450 00:45:31,250 --> 00:45:32,541 what we have right now. 2451 00:45:32,541 --> 00:45:33,208 I'm just providing 2452 00:45:33,208 --> 00:45:33,833 sure opportunity 2453 00:45:33,833 --> 00:45:35,000 then I don't mean equity 2454 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:35,458 in the sense 2455 00:45:35,458 --> 00:45:37,083 of like bringing others 2456 00:45:37,083 --> 00:45:37,791 down to bring them 2457 00:45:37,791 --> 00:45:38,541 to the same level 2458 00:45:38,541 --> 00:45:39,208 of other people, 2459 00:45:39,208 --> 00:45:40,333 or just like forcing people 2460 00:45:40,333 --> 00:45:40,791 in the past 2461 00:45:40,791 --> 00:45:41,375 that either 2462 00:45:41,375 --> 00:45:42,583 they don't fit or belong to, 2463 00:45:42,583 --> 00:45:43,500 but I mean, 2464 00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:44,541 allowing for opportunities 2465 00:45:44,541 --> 00:45:44,958 for people 2466 00:45:44,958 --> 00:45:46,041 to navigate themselves 2467 00:45:46,041 --> 00:45:46,458 and choose 2468 00:45:46,458 --> 00:45:48,083 pathways in particular, 2469 00:45:48,083 --> 00:45:48,916 or then they 2470 00:45:48,916 --> 00:45:49,708 kinda are right now. 2471 00:45:49,708 --> 00:45:51,833 So I see a good mix of having 2472 00:45:53,125 --> 00:45:54,375 currently the cultural, 2473 00:45:54,375 --> 00:45:55,833 I guess, heritage 2474 00:45:55,833 --> 00:45:56,208 that we have 2475 00:45:56,208 --> 00:45:57,458 as a, as a continent 2476 00:45:57,458 --> 00:45:59,208 is going to be a lot more 2477 00:45:59,208 --> 00:46:00,500 is going to be the reason why 2478 00:46:00,500 --> 00:46:01,458 building these institutions 2479 00:46:01,458 --> 00:46:01,875 will be a lot 2480 00:46:01,875 --> 00:46:03,166 more fruitful of an endeavor 2481 00:46:03,166 --> 00:46:04,333 than is kind of 2482 00:46:04,333 --> 00:46:05,500 seeing other Western parts 2483 00:46:05,500 --> 00:46:07,291 where it's like this, 2484 00:46:07,291 --> 00:46:08,208 I guess this quagmire 2485 00:46:08,208 --> 00:46:09,083 where the state 2486 00:46:09,083 --> 00:46:10,125 is fully serving 2487 00:46:10,125 --> 00:46:11,250 its own interest versus 2488 00:46:11,250 --> 00:46:12,833 the interest of the people. 2489 00:46:12,833 --> 00:46:13,458 So I think that 2490 00:46:13,458 --> 00:46:13,875 there's definitely 2491 00:46:13,875 --> 00:46:14,666 a lot of middle ground 2492 00:46:14,666 --> 00:46:15,416 that we could 2493 00:46:15,416 --> 00:46:16,250 architect really 2494 00:46:16,250 --> 00:46:16,875 from the ground up 2495 00:46:16,875 --> 00:46:17,375 in a lot 2496 00:46:17,375 --> 00:46:18,166 of African countries. 2497 00:46:18,166 --> 00:46:19,500 And one thing I would say is 2498 00:46:19,500 --> 00:46:21,416 it doesn't take as much time 2499 00:46:21,416 --> 00:46:24,416 as to think like there is 2500 00:46:24,708 --> 00:46:25,333 this idea 2501 00:46:25,333 --> 00:46:26,750 that people have in general 2502 00:46:26,750 --> 00:46:27,958 where it's like for a state 2503 00:46:27,958 --> 00:46:29,625 to be devoid of corruption 2504 00:46:29,625 --> 00:46:30,375 or for a state 2505 00:46:30,375 --> 00:46:31,250 to be prosperous, it's 2506 00:46:31,250 --> 00:46:31,875 going to take like 2507 00:46:31,875 --> 00:46:32,708 a whole century 2508 00:46:32,708 --> 00:46:33,458 or something like that. 2509 00:46:33,458 --> 00:46:35,416 But we have such sheer 2510 00:46:35,416 --> 00:46:35,791 chaos, 2511 00:46:35,791 --> 00:46:37,083 like the sum of the benefits 2512 00:46:37,083 --> 00:46:38,416 of a complex dynamic system. 2513 00:46:38,416 --> 00:46:40,166 Such one is 2514 00:46:40,166 --> 00:46:40,708 that the sheer 2515 00:46:40,708 --> 00:46:42,625 complexity is wired, 2516 00:46:42,625 --> 00:46:44,208 unable to predict 2517 00:46:44,208 --> 00:46:44,875 the duration 2518 00:46:44,875 --> 00:46:45,666 or the requirement 2519 00:46:45,666 --> 00:46:46,541 in terms of time 2520 00:46:46,541 --> 00:46:47,708 that things can get better 2521 00:46:47,708 --> 00:46:49,250 or could get even worse. 2522 00:46:49,250 --> 00:46:50,208 I think it's it's 2523 00:46:50,208 --> 00:46:51,625 it's a double edged sword, 2524 00:46:51,625 --> 00:46:53,208 like because of how complex 2525 00:46:53,208 --> 00:46:54,041 it is on the continent. 2526 00:46:54,041 --> 00:46:55,208 Like things can go really bad 2527 00:46:55,208 --> 00:46:55,791 really quickly 2528 00:46:55,791 --> 00:46:56,958 and can also go really good. 2529 00:46:56,958 --> 00:46:57,458 Right. 2530 00:46:57,458 --> 00:46:58,666 So I think I'm 2531 00:46:58,666 --> 00:46:59,541 a lot of optimism 2532 00:46:59,541 --> 00:47:00,750 in terms of 2533 00:47:00,750 --> 00:47:01,291 having a lot 2534 00:47:01,291 --> 00:47:02,750 more prosperous countries 2535 00:47:02,750 --> 00:47:04,333 come out of Africa and 2536 00:47:04,333 --> 00:47:05,250 honestly get to the point 2537 00:47:05,250 --> 00:47:06,250 where they'll likely be 2538 00:47:06,250 --> 00:47:06,916 because of hope 2539 00:47:06,916 --> 00:47:07,833 for other parts of the world. 2540 00:47:07,833 --> 00:47:08,083 I know 2541 00:47:08,083 --> 00:47:08,625 that sounds like 2542 00:47:08,625 --> 00:47:09,291 wishful thinking 2543 00:47:09,291 --> 00:47:10,208 for a lot of folks to see, 2544 00:47:10,208 --> 00:47:11,333 but I generally believe 2545 00:47:11,333 --> 00:47:11,958 in this fully 2546 00:47:11,958 --> 00:47:12,791 and wholeheartedly, 2547 00:47:12,791 --> 00:47:13,291 and I 2548 00:47:13,291 --> 00:47:14,833 feel one of the reasons why 2549 00:47:14,833 --> 00:47:15,291 this is going to be 2550 00:47:15,291 --> 00:47:16,208 a practical reality. 2551 00:47:16,208 --> 00:47:17,000 The city wants 2552 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:18,708 in the last 50, 60 years 2553 00:47:18,708 --> 00:47:19,916 from continent 2554 00:47:19,916 --> 00:47:20,750 was pretty much 2555 00:47:20,750 --> 00:47:21,833 a whole bunch of promises 2556 00:47:21,833 --> 00:47:22,625 or buncha 2557 00:47:22,625 --> 00:47:23,416 promising figures 2558 00:47:23,416 --> 00:47:24,833 that have been killed. 2559 00:47:24,833 --> 00:47:26,541 So lots of other reasons. 2560 00:47:26,541 --> 00:47:28,041 I think Bitcoin 2561 00:47:28,041 --> 00:47:29,416 does play a huge part 2562 00:47:29,416 --> 00:47:31,458 because of two things like 2563 00:47:31,458 --> 00:47:32,500 figuring out energy 2564 00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:33,375 and money is probably 2565 00:47:33,375 --> 00:47:33,875 one of the 2566 00:47:33,875 --> 00:47:34,791 the core pieces 2567 00:47:34,791 --> 00:47:35,541 for architecting 2568 00:47:35,541 --> 00:47:35,833 any sort 2569 00:47:35,833 --> 00:47:36,708 of prosperous nation. 2570 00:47:36,708 --> 00:47:38,875 So I feel having this tool 2571 00:47:38,875 --> 00:47:39,583 now does 2572 00:47:39,583 --> 00:47:40,708 give us an opportunity 2573 00:47:40,708 --> 00:47:41,916 to leapfrog 2574 00:47:41,916 --> 00:47:43,000 a lot of the barriers 2575 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:43,791 that we previously had 2576 00:47:43,791 --> 00:47:44,875 and get to the point 2577 00:47:44,875 --> 00:47:45,416 where we're 2578 00:47:45,416 --> 00:47:46,250 not only just prosperous, 2579 00:47:46,250 --> 00:47:46,791 but we're living 2580 00:47:46,791 --> 00:47:47,333 well in terms 2581 00:47:47,333 --> 00:47:47,583 of what 2582 00:47:47,583 --> 00:47:48,708 it should be, 2583 00:47:48,708 --> 00:47:49,916 in terms of prosperity, 2584 00:47:49,916 --> 00:47:51,375 down in like 2050s 2585 00:47:51,375 --> 00:47:51,958 all the way up to 2586 00:47:51,958 --> 00:47:53,083 the 2100 onward. 2587 00:47:55,208 --> 00:47:55,416 Yeah. 2588 00:47:55,416 --> 00:47:55,875 And, you know, I, 2589 00:47:55,875 --> 00:47:57,000 I, 2590 00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:57,791 I've been seeing 2591 00:47:57,791 --> 00:47:58,500 this as a trend 2592 00:47:58,500 --> 00:47:59,291 even in mainstream 2593 00:47:59,291 --> 00:47:59,875 media about 2594 00:47:59,875 --> 00:48:01,625 how about how 2595 00:48:01,625 --> 00:48:04,625 Africa is really set to boom, 2596 00:48:04,875 --> 00:48:05,625 basically. 2597 00:48:05,625 --> 00:48:06,500 And, and 2598 00:48:06,500 --> 00:48:07,000 I mean, 2599 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:08,333 it's it's interesting 2600 00:48:08,333 --> 00:48:09,166 how Bitcoin 2601 00:48:09,166 --> 00:48:10,458 is dovetailing with that, 2602 00:48:10,458 --> 00:48:11,750 but in a different way 2603 00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:12,583 than necessarily 2604 00:48:12,583 --> 00:48:14,583 we see in in countries 2605 00:48:14,583 --> 00:48:15,500 that don't necessarily 2606 00:48:15,500 --> 00:48:17,000 have the same set of needs. 2607 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:17,708 I mean, 2608 00:48:17,708 --> 00:48:18,625 there 2609 00:48:18,625 --> 00:48:20,791 being, a lot of great, 2610 00:48:20,791 --> 00:48:22,500 well, 2611 00:48:22,500 --> 00:48:24,291 books and podcasts and stuff 2612 00:48:24,291 --> 00:48:25,166 talking about 2613 00:48:25,166 --> 00:48:27,291 basically the, the, 2614 00:48:27,291 --> 00:48:28,583 the different 2615 00:48:28,583 --> 00:48:29,750 set of needs that, 2616 00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:31,291 that Bitcoin is fulfilling, 2617 00:48:31,291 --> 00:48:32,333 in Africa 2618 00:48:32,333 --> 00:48:33,208 and other parts of the world 2619 00:48:33,208 --> 00:48:34,125 that are poorer 2620 00:48:34,125 --> 00:48:35,750 than, than America, 2621 00:48:35,750 --> 00:48:37,000 than other Western countries. 2622 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,666 And, 2623 00:48:39,666 --> 00:48:40,458 how do you think 2624 00:48:40,458 --> 00:48:41,500 how do you think this is, 2625 00:48:41,500 --> 00:48:42,708 is playing out 2626 00:48:42,708 --> 00:48:44,083 with the 2627 00:48:44,083 --> 00:48:45,208 the price increasing 2628 00:48:45,208 --> 00:48:47,083 so much of, of Bitcoin, 2629 00:48:47,083 --> 00:48:48,083 there's there's definitely 2630 00:48:48,083 --> 00:48:49,166 been some in the space 2631 00:48:49,166 --> 00:48:49,958 that have 2632 00:48:49,958 --> 00:48:51,500 actually moved away from, 2633 00:48:51,500 --> 00:48:53,875 from Bitcoin itself into shit 2634 00:48:53,875 --> 00:48:55,125 coins or, 2635 00:48:55,125 --> 00:48:56,583 or abandoned 2636 00:48:56,583 --> 00:48:59,000 crypto altogether basically. 2637 00:49:01,333 --> 00:49:03,000 Because because of 2638 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,041 that basically that, 2639 00:49:04,041 --> 00:49:05,125 that it's not, 2640 00:49:05,125 --> 00:49:06,666 it's not really useful 2641 00:49:06,666 --> 00:49:07,583 for people. 2642 00:49:07,583 --> 00:49:11,875 It, it's not usable 2643 00:49:11,875 --> 00:49:13,041 as a medium of exchange. 2644 00:49:13,041 --> 00:49:14,750 So what do you think of that 2645 00:49:14,750 --> 00:49:16,041 narrative in it? 2646 00:49:16,041 --> 00:49:17,125 Is there, 2647 00:49:17,125 --> 00:49:18,833 is there any truth 2648 00:49:18,833 --> 00:49:20,541 to to what they're saying? 2649 00:49:20,541 --> 00:49:22,750 From the perspective of, of 2650 00:49:22,750 --> 00:49:23,666 Africa versus 2651 00:49:23,666 --> 00:49:25,916 the Western world? 2652 00:49:25,916 --> 00:49:26,208 Yeah. 2653 00:49:26,208 --> 00:49:26,833 So I think 2654 00:49:26,833 --> 00:49:27,500 there are a lot of things 2655 00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:27,833 that play 2656 00:49:27,833 --> 00:49:28,583 like one 2657 00:49:28,583 --> 00:49:30,083 is on the demographics. 2658 00:49:30,083 --> 00:49:30,916 And that's one of the reason 2659 00:49:30,916 --> 00:49:31,875 why I'm also super 2660 00:49:31,875 --> 00:49:33,416 bullish on the continent is 2661 00:49:33,416 --> 00:49:34,000 we're just such 2662 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:34,791 a young continent, 2663 00:49:34,791 --> 00:49:35,625 even as now, 2664 00:49:35,625 --> 00:49:36,500 like we're talking 2665 00:49:36,500 --> 00:49:37,833 practically like coffee. 2666 00:49:37,833 --> 00:49:39,125 Over 60% of the population 2667 00:49:39,125 --> 00:49:40,583 is between 18 and 25. 2668 00:49:40,583 --> 00:49:41,416 So on my age 2669 00:49:41,416 --> 00:49:42,708 range and it's 2670 00:49:42,708 --> 00:49:44,041 only going to get better 2671 00:49:44,041 --> 00:49:44,625 really for us 2672 00:49:44,625 --> 00:49:45,083 in the future 2673 00:49:45,083 --> 00:49:45,500 to the point 2674 00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:46,500 where, like you touched 2675 00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:48,125 like 70, 80% continent, 2676 00:49:48,125 --> 00:49:49,000 being in that age 2677 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:50,625 range, the average age in 2678 00:49:50,625 --> 00:49:51,750 some countries is on a slope 2679 00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:52,875 like 14, 16. 2680 00:49:52,875 --> 00:49:55,375 So we have a lot of potential 2681 00:49:55,375 --> 00:49:55,833 in terms 2682 00:49:55,833 --> 00:49:57,541 of just human capital. 2683 00:49:57,541 --> 00:49:58,500 I think there's nothing a lot 2684 00:49:58,500 --> 00:49:58,833 to say 2685 00:49:58,833 --> 00:50:00,083 about what the consequences 2686 00:50:00,083 --> 00:50:01,416 of that are, both good 2687 00:50:01,416 --> 00:50:02,000 and bad 2688 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:02,625 in terms of either 2689 00:50:02,625 --> 00:50:03,500 be hyper productive, 2690 00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:04,583 were completely 2691 00:50:04,583 --> 00:50:05,625 fluffed chaos. 2692 00:50:05,625 --> 00:50:06,625 I think in terms of the 2693 00:50:06,625 --> 00:50:07,375 coin angle, 2694 00:50:07,375 --> 00:50:08,375 like the one thing 2695 00:50:08,375 --> 00:50:09,416 I should say with Africa 2696 00:50:09,416 --> 00:50:10,541 is again, back to the same, 2697 00:50:11,666 --> 00:50:12,375 back to the 2698 00:50:12,375 --> 00:50:12,750 previous 2699 00:50:12,750 --> 00:50:13,625 day, we're talking about 2700 00:50:13,625 --> 00:50:14,041 in terms of 2701 00:50:14,041 --> 00:50:15,916 just the continent and the 2702 00:50:15,916 --> 00:50:16,791 promise versus 2703 00:50:16,791 --> 00:50:17,541 the actualization 2704 00:50:17,541 --> 00:50:18,916 of that promises. 2705 00:50:18,916 --> 00:50:19,458 A lot of people, 2706 00:50:19,458 --> 00:50:22,333 both in and outside, are 2707 00:50:22,333 --> 00:50:22,916 and have been used 2708 00:50:22,916 --> 00:50:24,583 to this narrative of Africa 2709 00:50:24,583 --> 00:50:25,875 being this dusty continent 2710 00:50:25,875 --> 00:50:27,041 that could just 2711 00:50:27,041 --> 00:50:28,083 constantly be used 2712 00:50:28,083 --> 00:50:29,625 as, campaigning to 2713 00:50:29,625 --> 00:50:31,000 or at least a mechanism 2714 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:32,250 for internal fundraising 2715 00:50:32,250 --> 00:50:34,041 and aid and things like that. 2716 00:50:34,041 --> 00:50:35,541 And I think one of the things 2717 00:50:35,541 --> 00:50:36,916 that really wasn't 2718 00:50:36,916 --> 00:50:38,208 something that was too happy 2719 00:50:38,208 --> 00:50:39,583 about into the crypto space 2720 00:50:39,583 --> 00:50:41,291 is it also leaned into that 2721 00:50:41,291 --> 00:50:42,833 where we had a lot of things 2722 00:50:42,833 --> 00:50:43,250 all the way 2723 00:50:43,250 --> 00:50:44,416 from seeing Bitcoin 2724 00:50:44,416 --> 00:50:45,166 as not useful 2725 00:50:45,166 --> 00:50:45,958 because it's on an 2726 00:50:45,958 --> 00:50:47,458 African currency, 2727 00:50:47,458 --> 00:50:48,583 unless that is something 2728 00:50:48,583 --> 00:50:49,791 that's external, 2729 00:50:49,791 --> 00:50:50,583 and then having 2730 00:50:50,583 --> 00:50:51,416 projects come out 2731 00:50:51,416 --> 00:50:52,250 that were just outright 2732 00:50:52,250 --> 00:50:53,083 scamming people 2733 00:50:53,083 --> 00:50:53,750 and pretending 2734 00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:55,333 to be Africa's coinage, 2735 00:50:55,333 --> 00:50:56,166 what the hell does that even 2736 00:50:56,166 --> 00:50:56,958 mean? 2737 00:50:56,958 --> 00:50:58,625 And two was also the 2738 00:50:58,625 --> 00:50:59,541 the issue that we have, 2739 00:50:59,541 --> 00:51:00,666 which is is very easy 2740 00:51:00,666 --> 00:51:01,750 to come into the continent 2741 00:51:01,750 --> 00:51:02,291 and pretend 2742 00:51:02,291 --> 00:51:03,375 like you're doing work 2743 00:51:03,375 --> 00:51:04,125 like all you have to do 2744 00:51:04,125 --> 00:51:04,583 pretty much 2745 00:51:04,583 --> 00:51:05,208 which a lot of people 2746 00:51:05,208 --> 00:51:05,625 have been doing, 2747 00:51:05,625 --> 00:51:06,916 both internally, 2748 00:51:06,916 --> 00:51:07,375 the diaspora 2749 00:51:07,375 --> 00:51:08,666 and outside has been, 2750 00:51:08,666 --> 00:51:09,375 you know, just coming 2751 00:51:09,375 --> 00:51:10,250 in, taking a photo 2752 00:51:10,250 --> 00:51:11,125 with a whole bunch of kids, 2753 00:51:11,125 --> 00:51:12,958 smiling and tweeting, 2754 00:51:12,958 --> 00:51:13,250 you know, 2755 00:51:13,250 --> 00:51:13,666 you've done 2756 00:51:13,666 --> 00:51:15,375 like a million people 2757 00:51:15,375 --> 00:51:17,750 now using coin X. 2758 00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:19,208 And the thing is like, true, 2759 00:51:20,333 --> 00:51:20,916 true change 2760 00:51:20,916 --> 00:51:21,750 doesn't require you 2761 00:51:21,750 --> 00:51:23,625 to make noise about to like 2762 00:51:23,625 --> 00:51:24,291 if you actually make 2763 00:51:24,291 --> 00:51:25,083 an impact in life 2764 00:51:25,083 --> 00:51:26,458 to go and publicize it. 2765 00:51:26,458 --> 00:51:27,333 That's the one thing 2766 00:51:27,333 --> 00:51:28,125 that a lot of people 2767 00:51:28,125 --> 00:51:28,916 are starting to realize 2768 00:51:28,916 --> 00:51:29,416 with Bitcoin. 2769 00:51:29,416 --> 00:51:30,708 Like 2770 00:51:30,708 --> 00:51:32,416 the lack of a creator 2771 00:51:32,416 --> 00:51:32,833 that's there 2772 00:51:32,833 --> 00:51:33,958 to dictate the future 2773 00:51:33,958 --> 00:51:34,916 and trajectory of Bitcoin 2774 00:51:34,916 --> 00:51:35,541 is one of the reasons 2775 00:51:35,541 --> 00:51:36,875 why it could be, 2776 00:51:36,875 --> 00:51:38,208 really internalized 2777 00:51:38,208 --> 00:51:39,166 by other parts of the world, 2778 00:51:39,166 --> 00:51:41,083 like Africa's RSA as well, 2779 00:51:41,083 --> 00:51:42,958 because it's large enough 2780 00:51:42,958 --> 00:51:43,708 and it's big enough 2781 00:51:43,708 --> 00:51:44,791 and it's deep enough 2782 00:51:44,791 --> 00:51:46,000 in terms of the shift 2783 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,208 that is bringing to humanity 2784 00:51:47,208 --> 00:51:48,375 that all parts of the world 2785 00:51:48,375 --> 00:51:49,666 can collaboratively lean 2786 00:51:49,666 --> 00:51:50,208 into these 2787 00:51:50,208 --> 00:51:51,333 be set of principles 2788 00:51:51,333 --> 00:51:52,875 that could be the foundation 2789 00:51:52,875 --> 00:51:53,833 for a prosperous nation. 2790 00:51:53,833 --> 00:51:55,125 So I think for Africa, 2791 00:51:55,125 --> 00:51:56,041 like the 2792 00:51:56,041 --> 00:51:56,625 the main thing 2793 00:51:56,625 --> 00:51:57,708 I've seen from the crypto 2794 00:51:57,708 --> 00:51:59,875 side has been leaning into 2795 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:02,541 eternal talk about Africa's 2796 00:52:02,541 --> 00:52:04,333 potential without necessarily 2797 00:52:04,333 --> 00:52:05,541 practically dipping 2798 00:52:05,541 --> 00:52:06,708 into making that a reality, 2799 00:52:06,708 --> 00:52:07,416 whereas Bitcoin 2800 00:52:07,416 --> 00:52:08,708 is a complete opposite. 2801 00:52:08,708 --> 00:52:11,333 Like it's literally though 2802 00:52:11,333 --> 00:52:12,041 it's started 2803 00:52:12,041 --> 00:52:13,083 and is I guess, 2804 00:52:13,083 --> 00:52:14,833 birthed within the, 2805 00:52:14,833 --> 00:52:16,333 the standpoint of actually 2806 00:52:16,333 --> 00:52:17,541 getting into actualizing 2807 00:52:17,541 --> 00:52:18,791 all the potential of African 2808 00:52:18,791 --> 00:52:20,166 then taking that to 2809 00:52:20,166 --> 00:52:20,791 really stuff 2810 00:52:20,791 --> 00:52:21,500 where a lot of us 2811 00:52:21,500 --> 00:52:21,958 on the ground, 2812 00:52:21,958 --> 00:52:22,666 even Bitcoiners 2813 00:52:22,666 --> 00:52:24,125 have thought of, 2814 00:52:24,125 --> 00:52:24,583 like Bitcoin 2815 00:52:24,583 --> 00:52:25,333 mining all of that 2816 00:52:25,333 --> 00:52:26,416 really early on wasn't 2817 00:52:26,416 --> 00:52:27,041 something at the 2818 00:52:27,041 --> 00:52:27,666 top of funnel 2819 00:52:27,666 --> 00:52:28,416 that were thinking about 2820 00:52:28,416 --> 00:52:28,875 that caused 2821 00:52:28,875 --> 00:52:30,041 this type of change. 2822 00:52:30,041 --> 00:52:30,375 And I think 2823 00:52:30,375 --> 00:52:31,333 more broadly in terms 2824 00:52:31,333 --> 00:52:32,083 of how people see 2825 00:52:32,083 --> 00:52:34,250 price action, it's 2826 00:52:34,250 --> 00:52:34,500 the way 2827 00:52:34,500 --> 00:52:35,041 I personally see 2828 00:52:35,041 --> 00:52:35,583 price action, 2829 00:52:35,583 --> 00:52:36,416 as is kind of this. 2830 00:52:36,416 --> 00:52:39,375 It's there's no ceiling 2831 00:52:39,375 --> 00:52:41,375 for how you can value, 2832 00:52:41,375 --> 00:52:43,125 financial freedom 2833 00:52:43,125 --> 00:52:44,833 or how you could value 2834 00:52:44,833 --> 00:52:45,916 really energy 2835 00:52:45,916 --> 00:52:47,166 up on that side. 2836 00:52:47,166 --> 00:52:47,958 And I think the price 2837 00:52:47,958 --> 00:52:48,750 is just a reflection 2838 00:52:48,750 --> 00:52:50,416 of the contemporary, 2839 00:52:50,416 --> 00:52:51,416 I guess price 2840 00:52:51,416 --> 00:52:52,833 that people put onto that. 2841 00:52:52,833 --> 00:52:53,708 So it's only 2842 00:52:53,708 --> 00:52:54,708 going to keep bubbling up 2843 00:52:54,708 --> 00:52:56,041 and I think 2844 00:52:56,041 --> 00:52:56,833 one other thing really, 2845 00:52:56,833 --> 00:52:57,875 to take a look at it, 2846 00:52:57,875 --> 00:52:59,000 I guess this is more on 2847 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:00,500 the empirical side is Bitcoin 2848 00:53:00,500 --> 00:53:01,541 crashes upwards. 2849 00:53:01,541 --> 00:53:03,166 So there's a popular 2850 00:53:03,166 --> 00:53:04,208 saying on Bitcoin space. 2851 00:53:04,208 --> 00:53:05,458 But that really is the keys 2852 00:53:05,458 --> 00:53:06,416 duplicate historical 2853 00:53:06,416 --> 00:53:07,166 price analysis. 2854 00:53:07,166 --> 00:53:08,375 And I think it's just part 2855 00:53:08,375 --> 00:53:10,125 and parcel of again 2856 00:53:10,125 --> 00:53:11,000 further discovery 2857 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:11,500 as a result 2858 00:53:11,500 --> 00:53:12,166 of the consequence 2859 00:53:12,166 --> 00:53:13,000 of having Bitcoin 2860 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:14,333 as a tool that is global. 2861 00:53:14,333 --> 00:53:15,041 Again, 2862 00:53:15,041 --> 00:53:16,583 because localized and really 2863 00:53:16,583 --> 00:53:17,166 just a coin 2864 00:53:17,166 --> 00:53:18,125 for a specific part 2865 00:53:18,125 --> 00:53:18,500 of the world, 2866 00:53:18,500 --> 00:53:18,833 it wouldn't 2867 00:53:18,833 --> 00:53:20,416 necessarily reach the type of 2868 00:53:20,416 --> 00:53:21,708 degree of, 2869 00:53:21,708 --> 00:53:22,750 I guess, both adoption 2870 00:53:22,750 --> 00:53:23,333 as well as use 2871 00:53:23,333 --> 00:53:23,958 cases on the ground. 2872 00:53:23,958 --> 00:53:26,083 But it has to like Africa, 2873 00:53:26,083 --> 00:53:26,625 I think. Again, 2874 00:53:26,625 --> 00:53:28,041 just to recap, like the sheer 2875 00:53:28,041 --> 00:53:29,083 abundance of young folks 2876 00:53:29,083 --> 00:53:29,875 on the continent 2877 00:53:29,875 --> 00:53:32,166 likely to be a huge catalyst 2878 00:53:32,166 --> 00:53:33,500 in terms of advancing us 2879 00:53:33,500 --> 00:53:34,416 in the right direction 2880 00:53:34,416 --> 00:53:35,041 or probably going 2881 00:53:35,041 --> 00:53:35,750 the other direction 2882 00:53:35,750 --> 00:53:37,250 if we're not proactive. 2883 00:53:37,250 --> 00:53:38,125 And again, just to close on 2884 00:53:38,125 --> 00:53:39,333 this really is 2885 00:53:39,333 --> 00:53:40,333 I think 2886 00:53:40,333 --> 00:53:40,833 I'm not part 2887 00:53:40,833 --> 00:53:41,833 of the crowd of bitcoiners 2888 00:53:41,833 --> 00:53:43,083 that feel like we've won, 2889 00:53:43,083 --> 00:53:43,791 quote unquote, 2890 00:53:43,791 --> 00:53:44,500 or like, you know, 2891 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,041 it's the happy being poor 2892 00:53:48,041 --> 00:53:48,458 and all that. 2893 00:53:48,458 --> 00:53:49,958 I feel 2894 00:53:49,958 --> 00:53:51,083 Bitcoin has to keep winning. 2895 00:53:51,083 --> 00:53:51,666 Like there's no 2896 00:53:51,666 --> 00:53:53,000 concept of Bitcoin has won 2897 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:54,041 because by virtue 2898 00:53:54,041 --> 00:53:54,708 of being software, 2899 00:53:54,708 --> 00:53:55,416 there's no such thing 2900 00:53:55,416 --> 00:53:57,083 as like a final end state. 2901 00:53:57,083 --> 00:53:57,500 There's only a 2902 00:53:57,500 --> 00:53:58,125 state of either 2903 00:53:58,125 --> 00:53:59,541 working or being deprecated. 2904 00:53:59,541 --> 00:54:01,125 So I firmly believe for us 2905 00:54:01,125 --> 00:54:02,291 to actually get these things 2906 00:54:02,291 --> 00:54:03,041 practically done 2907 00:54:03,041 --> 00:54:03,625 on the continent 2908 00:54:03,625 --> 00:54:04,625 in terms of prosperity, 2909 00:54:04,625 --> 00:54:05,500 I'll have to continue 2910 00:54:05,500 --> 00:54:06,833 to play our part 2911 00:54:06,833 --> 00:54:08,375 really actively to make sure 2912 00:54:08,375 --> 00:54:09,125 that we're 2913 00:54:09,125 --> 00:54:10,250 not only defending attacks, 2914 00:54:10,250 --> 00:54:10,791 but we're 2915 00:54:10,791 --> 00:54:11,750 also structuring 2916 00:54:11,750 --> 00:54:13,041 a very healthy ecosystem 2917 00:54:13,041 --> 00:54:15,250 from within. 2918 00:54:15,250 --> 00:54:15,541 Yeah. 2919 00:54:15,541 --> 00:54:18,083 So one thing, 2920 00:54:18,083 --> 00:54:19,333 I'm thinking of here, like, 2921 00:54:19,333 --> 00:54:21,500 as with Africa 2922 00:54:21,500 --> 00:54:23,541 or Nigeria specifically, 2923 00:54:23,541 --> 00:54:24,208 perhaps, 2924 00:54:24,208 --> 00:54:25,791 as opposed to 2925 00:54:25,791 --> 00:54:27,375 to Western countries 2926 00:54:27,375 --> 00:54:28,958 in terms of culture 2927 00:54:28,958 --> 00:54:31,041 and how you view the family. 2928 00:54:31,041 --> 00:54:31,583 It's like the 2929 00:54:31,583 --> 00:54:32,625 the African families 2930 00:54:32,625 --> 00:54:33,458 are much bigger. 2931 00:54:33,458 --> 00:54:34,541 There's like clans 2932 00:54:34,541 --> 00:54:35,250 and stuff like, 2933 00:54:35,250 --> 00:54:36,375 and groups 2934 00:54:36,375 --> 00:54:37,625 of like 200 people 2935 00:54:37,625 --> 00:54:39,500 where your loyalty may lie. 2936 00:54:39,500 --> 00:54:40,791 Whereas in Western countries 2937 00:54:40,791 --> 00:54:42,625 you're more focused on like 2938 00:54:43,875 --> 00:54:45,000 maybe up to 2939 00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:45,708 grandfathers 2940 00:54:45,708 --> 00:54:46,458 and grandmothers, 2941 00:54:46,458 --> 00:54:47,750 but not very much 2942 00:54:47,750 --> 00:54:48,750 more than that. 2943 00:54:48,750 --> 00:54:50,541 So, so by the way, are you 2944 00:54:50,541 --> 00:54:51,708 you have what they call 2945 00:54:51,708 --> 00:54:53,750 Yoruba or Igbo. 2946 00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:55,583 Oh, I'm, I'm Fulani actually. 2947 00:54:55,583 --> 00:54:57,041 So I'm like one, two. 2948 00:54:57,041 --> 00:54:59,583 Oh right. So I got it wrong. 2949 00:54:59,583 --> 00:55:02,208 Anyway, so, so, 2950 00:55:02,208 --> 00:55:02,916 so how do you think 2951 00:55:02,916 --> 00:55:04,333 that, like, impacts 2952 00:55:04,333 --> 00:55:05,458 Bitcoin adoption. 2953 00:55:05,458 --> 00:55:06,916 Is there like things 2954 00:55:06,916 --> 00:55:08,083 like fiddy for instance. 2955 00:55:08,083 --> 00:55:10,250 Seems like seem like, 2956 00:55:10,250 --> 00:55:11,958 absolutely tailor 2957 00:55:11,958 --> 00:55:13,875 made for that kind of culture 2958 00:55:13,875 --> 00:55:14,958 and, like, 2959 00:55:14,958 --> 00:55:16,875 how much has that got to do 2960 00:55:16,875 --> 00:55:18,083 with the 2961 00:55:18,083 --> 00:55:19,750 corrupt, corrupt ness 2962 00:55:19,750 --> 00:55:20,375 and like, 2963 00:55:20,375 --> 00:55:21,208 people's 2964 00:55:21,208 --> 00:55:21,916 loyalties here 2965 00:55:21,916 --> 00:55:23,625 and there and, building 2966 00:55:23,625 --> 00:55:24,708 strong institutions 2967 00:55:24,708 --> 00:55:25,416 and stuff. 2968 00:55:25,416 --> 00:55:27,083 What are your thoughts? 2969 00:55:27,083 --> 00:55:28,250 I mean, like 2970 00:55:28,250 --> 00:55:30,333 capitalism as a whole has 2971 00:55:30,333 --> 00:55:31,666 really flipped the, 2972 00:55:31,666 --> 00:55:32,750 I guess the loyalty 2973 00:55:32,750 --> 00:55:33,833 question into, 2974 00:55:33,833 --> 00:55:34,375 you know, people 2975 00:55:34,375 --> 00:55:35,583 being loyal to capital 2976 00:55:35,583 --> 00:55:37,166 or just money in general. 2977 00:55:37,166 --> 00:55:38,166 I think there's that angle. 2978 00:55:38,166 --> 00:55:39,083 There's also the uncle 2979 00:55:39,083 --> 00:55:39,875 like you mentioned of, 2980 00:55:39,875 --> 00:55:40,833 he's like, 2981 00:55:40,833 --> 00:55:41,500 I mean, I'm 2982 00:55:41,500 --> 00:55:42,833 from a family of five. 2983 00:55:42,833 --> 00:55:44,041 It's off included. 2984 00:55:44,041 --> 00:55:44,416 And it's 2985 00:55:44,416 --> 00:55:46,166 typically commonplace 2986 00:55:46,166 --> 00:55:46,833 in a lot of power, 2987 00:55:46,833 --> 00:55:47,375 especially up 2988 00:55:47,375 --> 00:55:48,458 here in the north 2989 00:55:48,458 --> 00:55:49,666 of large families. 2990 00:55:49,666 --> 00:55:51,125 I think the 2991 00:55:51,125 --> 00:55:51,750 there are a lot of things 2992 00:55:51,750 --> 00:55:52,250 at play, like 2993 00:55:52,250 --> 00:55:52,875 there is definitely 2994 00:55:52,875 --> 00:55:54,291 the cultural dynamic in terms 2995 00:55:54,291 --> 00:55:55,333 of having 2996 00:55:55,333 --> 00:55:56,416 like families 2997 00:55:56,416 --> 00:55:57,958 or having a sense of, again, 2998 00:55:57,958 --> 00:55:58,333 like I said, 2999 00:55:58,333 --> 00:55:59,041 shared community. 3000 00:55:59,041 --> 00:56:00,583 And it kind of varies 3001 00:56:00,583 --> 00:56:01,958 all across the continent 3002 00:56:01,958 --> 00:56:03,166 as you look from like urban 3003 00:56:03,166 --> 00:56:04,791 to rural as well. 3004 00:56:04,791 --> 00:56:05,791 And I think some of the 3005 00:56:05,791 --> 00:56:06,291 other factors 3006 00:56:06,291 --> 00:56:07,875 that do play into, 3007 00:56:07,875 --> 00:56:08,791 I guess determining 3008 00:56:08,791 --> 00:56:09,750 some of the consequences 3009 00:56:09,750 --> 00:56:11,000 for us as a continent is 3010 00:56:12,375 --> 00:56:13,416 there's so many, 3011 00:56:13,416 --> 00:56:14,416 first of all, languages. 3012 00:56:14,416 --> 00:56:15,708 So even the idea 3013 00:56:15,708 --> 00:56:16,750 of expressing myself 3014 00:56:16,750 --> 00:56:18,958 on the continent, it's such a 3015 00:56:18,958 --> 00:56:19,791 it's not as straightforward 3016 00:56:19,791 --> 00:56:20,916 as it is in continents 3017 00:56:20,916 --> 00:56:22,083 where it's like predominantly 3018 00:56:22,083 --> 00:56:23,333 single language. 3019 00:56:23,333 --> 00:56:23,958 And I think 3020 00:56:23,958 --> 00:56:25,083 within the language aspect, 3021 00:56:25,083 --> 00:56:26,166 there is also the trait 3022 00:56:26,166 --> 00:56:27,083 of our city of cultures, 3023 00:56:27,083 --> 00:56:27,791 like you mentioned. 3024 00:56:27,791 --> 00:56:28,458 I mean, we have two 3025 00:56:28,458 --> 00:56:29,708 major ones in terms of, 3026 00:56:29,708 --> 00:56:30,625 the lingua franca 3027 00:56:30,625 --> 00:56:31,958 in Nigeria. 3028 00:56:31,958 --> 00:56:33,166 You're about how say, IBO? 3029 00:56:33,166 --> 00:56:33,458 Because I 3030 00:56:33,458 --> 00:56:34,458 don't like focusing 3031 00:56:34,458 --> 00:56:35,875 on my mother tongue, 3032 00:56:35,875 --> 00:56:37,541 which is a 3033 00:56:37,541 --> 00:56:39,291 and that also plays a part. 3034 00:56:39,291 --> 00:56:39,916 And there's also the, 3035 00:56:39,916 --> 00:56:41,125 the religious aspect as well, 3036 00:56:41,125 --> 00:56:42,333 where it is roughly 3037 00:56:42,333 --> 00:56:44,791 split into 50% Christian, 50% 3038 00:56:44,791 --> 00:56:45,541 or something. 3039 00:56:45,541 --> 00:56:46,333 Even within that too, 3040 00:56:46,333 --> 00:56:47,333 there is some 3041 00:56:47,333 --> 00:56:48,166 degree of variance 3042 00:56:48,166 --> 00:56:51,000 in terms of actually, 3043 00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:51,750 having some sort of, 3044 00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:52,875 I guess, common understanding 3045 00:56:52,875 --> 00:56:53,625 for a certain thing. 3046 00:56:53,625 --> 00:56:54,458 So there are 3047 00:56:54,458 --> 00:56:55,500 a lot of dynamics 3048 00:56:55,500 --> 00:56:56,541 and demographics, really, 3049 00:56:56,541 --> 00:56:57,916 that are the reason 3050 00:56:57,916 --> 00:56:58,833 why everything's 3051 00:56:58,833 --> 00:56:59,625 a lot more complex, 3052 00:56:59,625 --> 00:57:00,833 but I don't necessarily 3053 00:57:00,833 --> 00:57:01,250 fault it 3054 00:57:01,250 --> 00:57:02,625 as the reason why 3055 00:57:02,625 --> 00:57:03,458 there's either 3056 00:57:03,458 --> 00:57:04,416 a lot of corruption 3057 00:57:04,416 --> 00:57:05,750 or a lack of structure 3058 00:57:05,750 --> 00:57:07,500 or lack of prosperity. 3059 00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:08,625 I just feel like it's 3060 00:57:09,625 --> 00:57:10,666 one of those things where I 3061 00:57:10,666 --> 00:57:11,500 could easily slip 3062 00:57:11,500 --> 00:57:12,458 into understanding 3063 00:57:12,458 --> 00:57:13,250 and recognizing that 3064 00:57:13,250 --> 00:57:14,166 as more of a strength 3065 00:57:14,166 --> 00:57:15,625 as, as opposed to, 3066 00:57:15,625 --> 00:57:16,583 a hindrance. 3067 00:57:16,583 --> 00:57:17,958 So specifically succinctly 3068 00:57:17,958 --> 00:57:19,000 saying it's, 3069 00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:19,833 I guess, suffice to say, 3070 00:57:19,833 --> 00:57:20,833 would be thinking of it 3071 00:57:20,833 --> 00:57:22,166 more as adversity 3072 00:57:22,166 --> 00:57:23,833 breeds all the opportunities 3073 00:57:23,833 --> 00:57:25,666 for further prosperity. 3074 00:57:25,666 --> 00:57:27,166 Like we had a huge monolith, 3075 00:57:27,166 --> 00:57:28,000 it would probably be 3076 00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:28,958 a lot more difficult 3077 00:57:28,958 --> 00:57:30,083 for us to actualize 3078 00:57:30,083 --> 00:57:30,375 a lot of 3079 00:57:30,375 --> 00:57:31,375 opportunities at the scale 3080 00:57:31,375 --> 00:57:32,375 that we're doing, at the pace 3081 00:57:32,375 --> 00:57:33,000 we're doing right now, 3082 00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:34,250 whether it's mining 3083 00:57:34,250 --> 00:57:36,125 or just economic development. 3084 00:57:36,125 --> 00:57:39,000 So I think really all the 3085 00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:40,041 I guess, all the dynamics 3086 00:57:40,041 --> 00:57:41,166 that we have in place 3087 00:57:41,166 --> 00:57:42,250 in terms of complexity 3088 00:57:42,250 --> 00:57:43,583 and all the factors 3089 00:57:43,583 --> 00:57:44,250 and demographics 3090 00:57:44,250 --> 00:57:45,625 that we have this kind 3091 00:57:45,625 --> 00:57:46,541 of parcel of the reason 3092 00:57:46,541 --> 00:57:47,250 why I feel like 3093 00:57:47,250 --> 00:57:48,291 we're going to be really 3094 00:57:48,291 --> 00:57:49,166 at the forefront of the world 3095 00:57:49,166 --> 00:57:50,000 in terms of 3096 00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:51,208 ushering in a new era 3097 00:57:51,208 --> 00:57:52,041 for the whole world 3098 00:57:52,041 --> 00:57:54,166 of abundance. Unlike proper, 3099 00:57:55,583 --> 00:57:56,375 is a proper state, 3100 00:57:56,375 --> 00:57:57,250 economically speaking, 3101 00:57:57,250 --> 00:57:58,333 and kind of defining 3102 00:57:58,333 --> 00:57:58,791 what it means 3103 00:57:58,791 --> 00:58:00,500 to be a person in 3104 00:58:00,500 --> 00:58:01,250 21st century. 3105 00:58:01,250 --> 00:58:04,250 Really? Yeah. 3106 00:58:04,458 --> 00:58:05,458 I mean, 3107 00:58:05,458 --> 00:58:06,083 can't wait 3108 00:58:06,083 --> 00:58:07,458 to see how this plays out. 3109 00:58:07,458 --> 00:58:08,458 Like, 3110 00:58:08,458 --> 00:58:09,166 yeah, I know 3111 00:58:09,166 --> 00:58:10,875 we have four seats, so 3112 00:58:10,875 --> 00:58:11,291 yeah, yeah, 3113 00:58:11,291 --> 00:58:12,166 we have front row 3114 00:58:12,166 --> 00:58:13,583 seats and it's absolutely 3115 00:58:13,583 --> 00:58:14,833 speaking of front row seats. 3116 00:58:14,833 --> 00:58:15,541 Like, 3117 00:58:15,541 --> 00:58:16,083 are you doing 3118 00:58:16,083 --> 00:58:17,083 a lot of conferences 3119 00:58:17,083 --> 00:58:18,375 this upcoming year too? 3120 00:58:18,375 --> 00:58:18,625 Like, 3121 00:58:18,625 --> 00:58:20,333 are you traveling a lot? 3122 00:58:20,333 --> 00:58:20,833 Yeah. We'll see. 3123 00:58:20,833 --> 00:58:21,583 I mean, 3124 00:58:21,583 --> 00:58:22,583 obviously as you guys 3125 00:58:22,583 --> 00:58:23,000 know, like 3126 00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:24,208 with conferences, it's, 3127 00:58:24,208 --> 00:58:25,833 you know, balancing out 3128 00:58:25,833 --> 00:58:27,291 productivity as well as, 3129 00:58:27,291 --> 00:58:27,750 you know, 3130 00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:28,875 making that productivity 3131 00:58:28,875 --> 00:58:30,166 known or kind of helping us. 3132 00:58:30,166 --> 00:58:31,375 So we'll see. 3133 00:58:31,375 --> 00:58:32,083 I think it's 3134 00:58:32,083 --> 00:58:33,000 definitely too early for me 3135 00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:34,875 to know based on the timings. 3136 00:58:34,875 --> 00:58:36,208 But again, it seems this year 3137 00:58:36,208 --> 00:58:36,791 there will be some 3138 00:58:36,791 --> 00:58:37,875 conflicting conferences. 3139 00:58:37,875 --> 00:58:39,083 So I would take off 3140 00:58:39,083 --> 00:58:40,416 some of the roster from 3141 00:58:40,416 --> 00:58:41,416 my list and schedule. 3142 00:58:42,708 --> 00:58:43,125 All right. 3143 00:58:43,125 --> 00:58:44,750 And are there any 3144 00:58:44,750 --> 00:58:45,625 other subjects 3145 00:58:45,625 --> 00:58:46,875 that we haven't covered yet 3146 00:58:46,875 --> 00:58:47,458 that you 3147 00:58:47,458 --> 00:58:48,375 that you'd like to 3148 00:58:48,375 --> 00:58:51,333 to dive into? 3149 00:58:51,333 --> 00:58:52,666 I mean, briefly would be on 3150 00:58:52,666 --> 00:58:53,500 the, on 3151 00:58:53,500 --> 00:58:54,166 the investment side 3152 00:58:54,166 --> 00:58:54,791 on the continent. 3153 00:58:54,791 --> 00:58:55,125 Like, 3154 00:58:55,125 --> 00:58:55,708 I know we've talked 3155 00:58:55,708 --> 00:58:56,291 about both 3156 00:58:56,291 --> 00:58:58,041 the development side, open 3157 00:58:58,041 --> 00:58:58,541 source, 3158 00:58:58,541 --> 00:59:00,000 the system being open, 3159 00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:01,083 some of the practicalities 3160 00:59:01,083 --> 00:59:02,000 from mining. 3161 00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:03,000 I think another aspect 3162 00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:03,791 that's interesting 3163 00:59:03,791 --> 00:59:04,958 too, is on the placement side 3164 00:59:04,958 --> 00:59:05,458 in Africa, 3165 00:59:05,458 --> 00:59:06,500 like pretty 3166 00:59:06,500 --> 00:59:07,333 much have a large 3167 00:59:07,333 --> 00:59:08,500 fintech ecosystem here 3168 00:59:08,500 --> 00:59:09,000 in Africa, 3169 00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:10,000 for obvious reasons 3170 00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:10,708 that might just mark. 3171 00:59:10,708 --> 00:59:11,750 So we sort of sense 3172 00:59:11,750 --> 00:59:12,708 that people have been trying 3173 00:59:12,708 --> 00:59:13,541 to solve 3174 00:59:13,541 --> 00:59:14,083 the money issue 3175 00:59:14,083 --> 00:59:15,375 here on a continent. 3176 00:59:15,375 --> 00:59:16,875 And I think with regards 3177 00:59:16,875 --> 00:59:17,208 to that, 3178 00:59:17,208 --> 00:59:18,083 what I would suggest in 3179 00:59:18,083 --> 00:59:19,541 brief is 3180 00:59:19,541 --> 00:59:20,833 I have a mix of three things 3181 00:59:20,833 --> 00:59:21,500 that I'm seeing. 3182 00:59:21,500 --> 00:59:23,083 So one is a flip thing 3183 00:59:23,083 --> 00:59:23,666 that's happening 3184 00:59:23,666 --> 00:59:25,875 from the fintech space being, 3185 00:59:25,875 --> 00:59:26,333 you know, 3186 00:59:26,333 --> 00:59:27,458 where Bitcoin was spread 3187 00:59:27,458 --> 00:59:28,666 out of the opposite. 3188 00:59:28,666 --> 00:59:29,500 So Bitcoin 3189 00:59:29,500 --> 00:59:30,375 becoming the super 3190 00:59:30,375 --> 00:59:31,041 for fintechs. 3191 00:59:31,041 --> 00:59:31,750 And I think that's going 3192 00:59:31,750 --> 00:59:32,833 to take shape specifically 3193 00:59:32,833 --> 00:59:34,000 2025 onwards 3194 00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:34,875 in terms of 3195 00:59:34,875 --> 00:59:35,416 people starting 3196 00:59:35,416 --> 00:59:35,958 to understand 3197 00:59:35,958 --> 00:59:37,458 their fintech companies 3198 00:59:37,458 --> 00:59:38,083 from the standpoint 3199 00:59:38,083 --> 00:59:38,541 of Bitcoin, 3200 00:59:38,541 --> 00:59:38,833 whether it's 3201 00:59:38,833 --> 00:59:39,791 treasury management 3202 00:59:39,791 --> 00:59:40,875 or just for 3203 00:59:40,875 --> 00:59:42,166 sure, competitiveness 3204 00:59:42,166 --> 00:59:43,208 or staying afloat in terms 3205 00:59:43,208 --> 00:59:43,416 of being 3206 00:59:43,416 --> 00:59:44,333 a competitive company, 3207 00:59:44,333 --> 00:59:45,083 integrating Bitcoin 3208 00:59:45,083 --> 00:59:46,333 at some point are there. 3209 00:59:46,333 --> 00:59:47,000 It's on, again, 3210 00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:47,333 like I said, 3211 00:59:47,333 --> 00:59:48,125 treasury management 3212 00:59:48,125 --> 00:59:49,083 or just leveraging the 3213 00:59:49,083 --> 00:59:50,500 like network for institutions 3214 00:59:50,500 --> 00:59:51,708 or things around that. 3215 00:59:51,708 --> 00:59:52,875 And I think you will start 3216 00:59:52,875 --> 00:59:53,333 to see 3217 00:59:53,333 --> 00:59:54,166 some of those companies 3218 00:59:54,166 --> 00:59:55,125 also looking at 3219 00:59:55,125 --> 00:59:55,875 Bitcoin mining, 3220 00:59:56,833 --> 00:59:57,375 not just like 3221 00:59:57,375 --> 00:59:58,166 mining specifically, 3222 00:59:58,166 --> 00:59:59,166 but software 3223 00:59:59,166 --> 00:59:59,958 tools, services 3224 00:59:59,958 --> 01:00:00,666 around Bitcoin 3225 01:00:00,666 --> 01:00:01,583 and infrastructure 3226 01:00:01,583 --> 01:00:03,083 around Bitcoin mining. 3227 01:00:03,083 --> 01:00:05,750 And I'd say in terms of the 3228 01:00:05,750 --> 01:00:06,083 terms 3229 01:00:06,083 --> 01:00:07,208 of the general investment 3230 01:00:07,208 --> 01:00:08,500 outlook, I would say 3231 01:00:08,500 --> 01:00:09,375 Africa is definitely 3232 01:00:09,375 --> 01:00:10,125 one of the regions 3233 01:00:10,125 --> 01:00:10,583 that people 3234 01:00:10,583 --> 01:00:11,791 should keep a keen, 3235 01:00:11,791 --> 01:00:12,708 keen eye on, 3236 01:00:12,708 --> 01:00:13,208 especially in the 3237 01:00:13,208 --> 01:00:14,125 Bitcoin space, 3238 01:00:14,125 --> 01:00:15,041 for obvious reasons. 3239 01:00:15,041 --> 01:00:16,333 One is the share 3240 01:00:16,333 --> 01:00:16,833 I'm on Twitter. 3241 01:00:16,833 --> 01:00:17,708 Really, like I mentioned, 3242 01:00:17,708 --> 01:00:18,375 is one of the reasons 3243 01:00:18,375 --> 01:00:19,583 why it would likely reflect 3244 01:00:19,583 --> 01:00:20,666 the most accurate definition 3245 01:00:20,666 --> 01:00:21,125 of what it means 3246 01:00:21,125 --> 01:00:22,583 to be a company. 3247 01:00:22,583 --> 01:00:23,333 The two again, 3248 01:00:23,333 --> 01:00:23,833 because of this 3249 01:00:23,833 --> 01:00:25,291 someone diversity in 3250 01:00:25,291 --> 01:00:26,875 I guess I see as well. 3251 01:00:26,875 --> 01:00:27,791 It would be likely 3252 01:00:27,791 --> 01:00:28,750 that the most bleeding edge 3253 01:00:28,750 --> 01:00:30,500 in terms of innovation. 3254 01:00:30,500 --> 01:00:31,458 It's not one of those things 3255 01:00:31,458 --> 01:00:32,416 where we're just talking, 3256 01:00:32,416 --> 01:00:32,666 you know, 3257 01:00:32,666 --> 01:00:33,666 out of our assets, 3258 01:00:33,666 --> 01:00:34,250 one of those things 3259 01:00:34,250 --> 01:00:34,583 that has 3260 01:00:34,583 --> 01:00:35,416 actually materialized 3261 01:00:35,416 --> 01:00:35,875 over the last 3262 01:00:35,875 --> 01:00:36,416 couple of years, 3263 01:00:36,416 --> 01:00:36,708 well, there's 3264 01:00:36,708 --> 01:00:37,416 so much ink real 3265 01:00:37,416 --> 01:00:38,416 with USD code. 3266 01:00:38,416 --> 01:00:40,041 So every lightning network 3267 01:00:40,041 --> 01:00:40,666 all the way up to, 3268 01:00:40,666 --> 01:00:41,708 you know, tandoor 3269 01:00:41,708 --> 01:00:42,833 or some of these other things 3270 01:00:42,833 --> 01:00:43,583 I do, 3271 01:00:43,583 --> 01:00:44,250 I think we're going to see 3272 01:00:44,250 --> 01:00:45,125 even more projects 3273 01:00:45,125 --> 01:00:46,541 come out of that. 3274 01:00:46,541 --> 01:00:47,166 Craig, that's that, 3275 01:00:47,166 --> 01:00:48,208 that whole, 3276 01:00:48,208 --> 01:00:50,166 understanding of 3277 01:00:50,166 --> 01:00:51,000 there's so many challenges 3278 01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:52,791 that are uniquely African, 3279 01:00:52,791 --> 01:00:53,958 which can only be solved 3280 01:00:53,958 --> 01:00:55,125 by folks on the continent. 3281 01:00:55,125 --> 01:00:56,208 So I think 3282 01:00:56,208 --> 01:00:57,000 on the investments, there's 3283 01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:57,250 going to be 3284 01:00:57,250 --> 01:00:58,041 a lot of these companies 3285 01:00:58,041 --> 01:00:58,916 that mimic that. 3286 01:00:58,916 --> 01:00:59,958 I think the only question 3287 01:00:59,958 --> 01:01:01,416 would be balancing 3288 01:01:01,416 --> 01:01:02,291 all the innovation 3289 01:01:02,291 --> 01:01:02,958 and all the tech that's 3290 01:01:02,958 --> 01:01:03,583 going to come out 3291 01:01:03,583 --> 01:01:04,791 with actual viable 3292 01:01:04,791 --> 01:01:06,458 business models and 3293 01:01:06,458 --> 01:01:07,250 I guess the standpoint 3294 01:01:07,250 --> 01:01:07,875 from investors. 3295 01:01:07,875 --> 01:01:09,291 But on the consumer side, 3296 01:01:09,291 --> 01:01:10,166 we're definitely in 3297 01:01:10,166 --> 01:01:11,083 for a huge ride 3298 01:01:11,083 --> 01:01:12,916 in terms of experimentation, 3299 01:01:12,916 --> 01:01:13,833 a lot of innovation 3300 01:01:13,833 --> 01:01:14,291 on the ground. 3301 01:01:14,291 --> 01:01:14,833 So stuff 3302 01:01:14,833 --> 01:01:15,375 is going to get 3303 01:01:15,375 --> 01:01:16,208 really, really exciting 3304 01:01:16,208 --> 01:01:16,791 on the continent. 3305 01:01:21,333 --> 01:01:22,666 But, 3306 01:01:22,666 --> 01:01:23,958 Luke, I thought 3307 01:01:23,958 --> 01:01:24,291 you were going 3308 01:01:24,291 --> 01:01:25,416 to say something to this. 3309 01:01:25,416 --> 01:01:26,041 Sorry, 3310 01:01:26,041 --> 01:01:26,750 I don't know why 3311 01:01:26,750 --> 01:01:28,083 you were waiting. 3312 01:01:28,083 --> 01:01:28,708 If I don't know why 3313 01:01:28,708 --> 01:01:31,333 I did that. Yeah. No. Okay. 3314 01:01:31,333 --> 01:01:31,791 No. No. 3315 01:01:31,791 --> 01:01:32,333 Great to hear. 3316 01:01:32,333 --> 01:01:33,708 I mean, I mean, I think the, 3317 01:01:33,708 --> 01:01:34,916 I think the, 3318 01:01:34,916 --> 01:01:36,250 investment 3319 01:01:36,250 --> 01:01:37,333 angle is, 3320 01:01:37,333 --> 01:01:38,916 is an interesting one. 3321 01:01:38,916 --> 01:01:39,916 I mean, 3322 01:01:39,916 --> 01:01:41,708 the attractiveness of any, 3323 01:01:41,708 --> 01:01:45,375 place, generally, 3324 01:01:45,375 --> 01:01:47,000 any market generally is, 3325 01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,208 it's kind of 3326 01:01:49,208 --> 01:01:49,791 it's funny 3327 01:01:49,791 --> 01:01:50,208 that it's all 3328 01:01:50,208 --> 01:01:52,416 skewed, basically. 3329 01:01:52,416 --> 01:01:53,625 We're, we're 3330 01:01:53,625 --> 01:01:54,708 we're pretty much in a, 3331 01:01:54,708 --> 01:01:57,375 in, a state where the, 3332 01:01:57,375 --> 01:01:58,208 the US 3333 01:01:58,208 --> 01:02:00,125 government, by their 3334 01:02:00,125 --> 01:02:00,833 printing money 3335 01:02:00,833 --> 01:02:01,916 in and all of their systems 3336 01:02:01,916 --> 01:02:02,583 of foreign aid 3337 01:02:02,583 --> 01:02:03,833 and everything completely 3338 01:02:03,833 --> 01:02:05,541 skews the market of, 3339 01:02:05,541 --> 01:02:07,625 of where to invest money, 3340 01:02:07,625 --> 01:02:08,833 who to invest money 3341 01:02:08,833 --> 01:02:10,041 in, what regions of the world 3342 01:02:10,041 --> 01:02:11,333 to invest money in? 3343 01:02:11,333 --> 01:02:12,875 And, well, I, 3344 01:02:12,875 --> 01:02:13,875 I certainly hope that 3345 01:02:13,875 --> 01:02:14,750 that Bitcoin becomes 3346 01:02:14,750 --> 01:02:16,500 a leveler there. 3347 01:02:17,958 --> 01:02:20,250 And yeah, I mean, I 3348 01:02:20,250 --> 01:02:21,375 guess, 3349 01:02:21,375 --> 01:02:22,750 it sounds like you, you, 3350 01:02:22,750 --> 01:02:23,625 you see that happening 3351 01:02:23,625 --> 01:02:26,458 as, as well, right. Like, 3352 01:02:26,458 --> 01:02:28,708 that, that as things the, 3353 01:02:28,708 --> 01:02:30,000 the concept of fairness 3354 01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:30,916 whenever we talk about this 3355 01:02:30,916 --> 01:02:31,708 in the Bitcoin space 3356 01:02:31,708 --> 01:02:32,875 is not fairness 3357 01:02:32,875 --> 01:02:34,041 in terms of 3358 01:02:34,041 --> 01:02:35,625 forced redistributed 3359 01:02:35,625 --> 01:02:37,833 fairness is just it's just, 3360 01:02:37,833 --> 01:02:39,750 skewing the system. Right? 3361 01:02:39,750 --> 01:02:40,541 So is that 3362 01:02:40,541 --> 01:02:41,000 is that kind of 3363 01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:41,333 what you think 3364 01:02:41,333 --> 01:02:43,458 is going to happen here 100%. 3365 01:02:43,458 --> 01:02:44,000 Like it's 3366 01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:44,750 just the equality 3367 01:02:44,750 --> 01:02:45,833 of opportunity? 3368 01:02:45,833 --> 01:02:46,208 You know, 3369 01:02:46,208 --> 01:02:47,333 and I think 3370 01:02:47,333 --> 01:02:47,958 for a lot of us 3371 01:02:47,958 --> 01:02:48,541 on the ground, 3372 01:02:48,541 --> 01:02:49,583 especially whether 3373 01:02:49,583 --> 01:02:50,500 we're entrepreneurs 3374 01:02:50,500 --> 01:02:51,708 or stakeholders 3375 01:02:51,708 --> 01:02:54,375 and just being African is 3376 01:02:54,375 --> 01:02:55,583 because of the fact 3377 01:02:55,583 --> 01:02:57,041 that Bitcoin is global, 3378 01:02:57,041 --> 01:02:57,875 like you're the king 3379 01:02:57,875 --> 01:02:58,833 and something that works 3380 01:02:58,833 --> 01:02:59,708 everywhere in the world. 3381 01:02:59,708 --> 01:03:00,583 So it's not a case 3382 01:03:00,583 --> 01:03:00,916 where we're 3383 01:03:00,916 --> 01:03:01,666 building something 3384 01:03:01,666 --> 01:03:02,250 and then 3385 01:03:02,250 --> 01:03:03,708 hoping it gets to the stage 3386 01:03:03,708 --> 01:03:04,583 and maturity level, 3387 01:03:04,583 --> 01:03:05,208 that it could talk 3388 01:03:05,208 --> 01:03:06,375 to the rest of the world 3389 01:03:06,375 --> 01:03:06,833 somewhere 3390 01:03:06,833 --> 01:03:07,666 where infrastructure 3391 01:03:07,666 --> 01:03:08,208 has been built 3392 01:03:08,208 --> 01:03:08,875 for the future, 3393 01:03:08,875 --> 01:03:10,458 that's built, you know, by 3394 01:03:10,458 --> 01:03:11,208 the future really 3395 01:03:11,208 --> 01:03:12,208 pretty much of the emphasis 3396 01:03:12,208 --> 01:03:12,583 on the ground, 3397 01:03:12,583 --> 01:03:13,666 but also 3398 01:03:13,666 --> 01:03:14,458 for the future, really, 3399 01:03:14,458 --> 01:03:14,875 in the sense 3400 01:03:14,875 --> 01:03:15,958 that soon as you're able 3401 01:03:15,958 --> 01:03:16,791 to contribute to this, you're 3402 01:03:16,791 --> 01:03:18,250 contributing to bettering 3403 01:03:18,250 --> 01:03:18,666 not just the 3404 01:03:18,666 --> 01:03:19,541 lives of Africans, 3405 01:03:19,541 --> 01:03:20,208 but everyone else 3406 01:03:20,208 --> 01:03:21,083 around the world. 3407 01:03:21,083 --> 01:03:21,625 I think this whole 3408 01:03:21,625 --> 01:03:22,583 collaborative nature 3409 01:03:22,583 --> 01:03:23,625 and kind of the collaborative 3410 01:03:23,625 --> 01:03:25,208 effects of Parliament 3411 01:03:25,208 --> 01:03:26,750 in just the Bitcoin ecosystem 3412 01:03:26,750 --> 01:03:27,083 as a whole, 3413 01:03:27,083 --> 01:03:27,625 I think, is 3414 01:03:27,625 --> 01:03:28,250 one of the things 3415 01:03:28,250 --> 01:03:29,000 that's missing 3416 01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:30,083 on the continent in terms 3417 01:03:30,083 --> 01:03:31,041 of providing 3418 01:03:31,041 --> 01:03:32,083 that level of opportunity 3419 01:03:32,083 --> 01:03:32,875 that we're talking about, 3420 01:03:32,875 --> 01:03:33,708 and not just trying 3421 01:03:33,708 --> 01:03:34,541 to redistribute wealth. 3422 01:03:35,750 --> 01:03:36,083 No. 3423 01:03:36,083 --> 01:03:36,500 Like, 3424 01:03:36,500 --> 01:03:37,500 rules without 3425 01:03:37,500 --> 01:03:41,833 rulers is really equality, 3426 01:03:41,833 --> 01:03:43,041 towards the law. 3427 01:03:43,041 --> 01:03:44,750 Like if the rules are 3428 01:03:44,750 --> 01:03:45,833 the law, like then, 3429 01:03:45,833 --> 01:03:47,291 then we're all equal, 3430 01:03:47,291 --> 01:03:49,416 like, and, yeah, it's 3431 01:03:49,416 --> 01:03:50,583 that's a way to look at that, 3432 01:03:50,583 --> 01:03:51,875 I guess 3433 01:03:51,875 --> 01:03:52,583 the hundred percent 3434 01:03:52,583 --> 01:03:52,875 and the 3435 01:03:52,875 --> 01:03:53,750 permissionless nature, 3436 01:03:53,750 --> 01:03:54,125 I think 3437 01:03:54,125 --> 01:03:54,708 as well, of both 3438 01:03:54,708 --> 01:03:55,375 the development 3439 01:03:55,375 --> 01:03:56,458 and just being involved with 3440 01:03:56,458 --> 01:03:57,291 Bitcoin is a huge 3441 01:03:57,291 --> 01:03:57,750 one as well, 3442 01:03:57,750 --> 01:03:58,458 because that's 3443 01:03:58,458 --> 01:03:59,000 one of the reasons 3444 01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:00,541 why we're able to Keenan 3445 01:04:00,541 --> 01:04:01,041 honestly even 3446 01:04:01,041 --> 01:04:01,791 have this conversation. 3447 01:04:01,791 --> 01:04:03,250 Like if I had to request 3448 01:04:03,250 --> 01:04:03,833 for permission 3449 01:04:03,833 --> 01:04:04,791 from the Nigerian government 3450 01:04:04,791 --> 01:04:06,250 to start Bitcoin development 3451 01:04:06,250 --> 01:04:08,541 to get it more Bitcoin space, 3452 01:04:08,541 --> 01:04:09,041 things would have be 3453 01:04:09,041 --> 01:04:09,833 radically different. 3454 01:04:09,833 --> 01:04:11,000 So I think for 3455 01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:11,625 for a lot of people 3456 01:04:11,625 --> 01:04:12,291 around the world, 3457 01:04:12,291 --> 01:04:13,500 especially in the continent, 3458 01:04:13,500 --> 01:04:14,500 I think that level 3459 01:04:14,500 --> 01:04:15,583 of empowerment that comes 3460 01:04:15,583 --> 01:04:16,666 with not having to ask 3461 01:04:16,666 --> 01:04:17,291 for permission 3462 01:04:17,291 --> 01:04:18,125 to be 3463 01:04:18,125 --> 01:04:19,458 a useful person in the world 3464 01:04:19,458 --> 01:04:20,166 are just contribute 3465 01:04:20,166 --> 01:04:20,708 to this price, 3466 01:04:20,708 --> 01:04:21,333 which has been 3467 01:04:21,333 --> 01:04:22,750 a huge key motivator 3468 01:04:22,750 --> 01:04:23,333 for a lot of us 3469 01:04:23,333 --> 01:04:24,208 other developers, 3470 01:04:24,208 --> 01:04:25,333 entrepreneurs, or just 3471 01:04:25,333 --> 01:04:26,208 people who use Bitcoin. 3472 01:04:27,291 --> 01:04:28,000 Now, the 3473 01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:28,458 the day 3474 01:04:28,458 --> 01:04:28,833 that you 3475 01:04:28,833 --> 01:04:29,875 have to ask permission 3476 01:04:29,875 --> 01:04:31,625 to do anything in Bitcoin is 3477 01:04:31,625 --> 01:04:33,000 is the day the Bitcoin dies. 3478 01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:34,458 So fortunately, like 3479 01:04:34,458 --> 01:04:34,750 I don't know 3480 01:04:34,750 --> 01:04:36,083 if that's ever the case. 3481 01:04:36,083 --> 01:04:36,833 If you ever need 3482 01:04:36,833 --> 01:04:37,833 a government approval 3483 01:04:37,833 --> 01:04:39,375 to do anything with bitcoin 3484 01:04:39,375 --> 01:04:41,083 then is it you with 3485 01:04:41,083 --> 01:04:42,416 that is not bitcoin anymore? 3486 01:04:42,416 --> 01:04:43,500 I'm sorry 3487 01:04:43,500 --> 01:04:45,208 the project is over, 3488 01:04:45,208 --> 01:04:46,250 but that's not happening 3489 01:04:46,250 --> 01:04:48,625 anytime soon. 3490 01:04:48,625 --> 01:04:49,041 Is it? 3491 01:04:49,041 --> 01:04:50,166 If we do our work 3492 01:04:50,166 --> 01:04:51,291 and not know if we care, 3493 01:04:51,291 --> 01:04:53,000 if we stay vigilant and know 3494 01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:53,625 run our nodes 3495 01:04:53,625 --> 01:04:55,708 and so on and so forth. Yeah. 3496 01:04:55,708 --> 01:04:56,958 Abu Bakar, 3497 01:04:56,958 --> 01:04:58,291 it's been great having you 3498 01:04:58,291 --> 01:04:59,375 on a great conversation. 3499 01:04:59,375 --> 01:05:01,666 Are is there anywhere else 3500 01:05:01,666 --> 01:05:02,291 you want to send 3501 01:05:02,291 --> 01:05:03,000 our listeners 3502 01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:03,833 or anywhere 3503 01:05:03,833 --> 01:05:06,833 you want to direct them to? 3504 01:05:07,208 --> 01:05:08,333 Oh, I'd say for 3505 01:05:08,333 --> 01:05:09,250 those that are listening 3506 01:05:09,250 --> 01:05:09,791 that are 3507 01:05:09,791 --> 01:05:10,875 either on the continent 3508 01:05:10,875 --> 01:05:11,833 or looking to get involved, 3509 01:05:11,833 --> 01:05:12,583 the involvement, 3510 01:05:12,583 --> 01:05:13,666 I'd say follow, 3511 01:05:13,666 --> 01:05:14,750 you know, 3512 01:05:14,750 --> 01:05:15,291 be trust 3513 01:05:15,291 --> 01:05:16,458 stack our website 3514 01:05:16,458 --> 01:05:17,500 to take a look at the work 3515 01:05:17,500 --> 01:05:19,041 we're doing for X 3516 01:05:19,041 --> 01:05:20,791 and to get on nostre as well. 3517 01:05:20,791 --> 01:05:21,291 And personally, 3518 01:05:21,291 --> 01:05:22,250 just the developments 3519 01:05:22,250 --> 01:05:22,583 on the ground. 3520 01:05:22,583 --> 01:05:24,000 I catalog that in Forbes 3521 01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,166 catalog for digital assets 3522 01:05:26,166 --> 01:05:26,958 and just generally 3523 01:05:26,958 --> 01:05:27,583 just keeping up. 3524 01:05:27,583 --> 01:05:28,708 Like I tend to say 3525 01:05:28,708 --> 01:05:29,333 a lot about this. 3526 01:05:29,333 --> 01:05:31,166 So there are nostre 3527 01:05:31,166 --> 01:05:33,791 I hate 1999 same as X 3528 01:05:33,791 --> 01:05:34,583 and that's pretty much it. 3529 01:05:34,583 --> 01:05:35,416 I think, 3530 01:05:35,416 --> 01:05:36,458 the last thing would be 3531 01:05:36,458 --> 01:05:37,666 just taking a look at Africa 3532 01:05:37,666 --> 01:05:38,666 more concretely like 3533 01:05:38,666 --> 01:05:40,208 and taking a pulse of it. 3534 01:05:40,208 --> 01:05:40,916 Just to check in 3535 01:05:40,916 --> 01:05:42,166 because it's not likely going 3536 01:05:42,166 --> 01:05:42,833 to dictate, 3537 01:05:42,833 --> 01:05:43,875 continue to dictate really 3538 01:05:43,875 --> 01:05:44,416 what happens 3539 01:05:44,416 --> 01:05:45,083 in the rest of the world. 3540 01:05:45,083 --> 01:05:45,375 Like there's 3541 01:05:45,375 --> 01:05:46,125 so much saturation 3542 01:05:46,125 --> 01:05:46,666 everywhere else. 3543 01:05:46,666 --> 01:05:48,416 And Africa's really smart. 3544 01:05:48,416 --> 01:05:49,833 It's a lot of like room 3545 01:05:49,833 --> 01:05:50,541 and freedom really, 3546 01:05:50,541 --> 01:05:51,583 to properly innovate 3547 01:05:51,583 --> 01:05:52,250 and other press like 3548 01:05:52,250 --> 01:05:53,791 Latin America twin, you know. 3549 01:05:53,791 --> 01:05:55,000 So I say keep an eye on that. 3550 01:05:56,208 --> 01:05:57,166 So last question, 3551 01:05:57,166 --> 01:06:00,166 why do you hate 1999? 3552 01:06:00,375 --> 01:06:01,833 I was born in 1999 3553 01:06:01,833 --> 01:06:04,291 and I joined X when I was 11. 3554 01:06:04,291 --> 01:06:05,500 So the combination 3555 01:06:05,500 --> 01:06:06,250 of those two things, 3556 01:06:06,250 --> 01:06:07,250 I guess for me, 3557 01:06:07,250 --> 01:06:09,583 I thought was cool at times, 3558 01:06:09,583 --> 01:06:11,000 seemed like a weird emo. 3559 01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:12,083 But yeah, it's 3560 01:06:12,083 --> 01:06:12,791 one of those things 3561 01:06:12,791 --> 01:06:14,583 like, consequences 3562 01:06:14,583 --> 01:06:16,000 of joining social media 3563 01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:17,208 at an early age. 3564 01:06:17,208 --> 01:06:20,208 I guess. 3565 01:06:20,208 --> 01:06:21,291 Okay. 3566 01:06:21,291 --> 01:06:21,583 Yeah. 3567 01:06:21,583 --> 01:06:22,833 Luke, any more questions? 3568 01:06:22,833 --> 01:06:24,750 No. 3569 01:06:24,750 --> 01:06:25,708 Thanks. Aboubakar. 3570 01:06:25,708 --> 01:06:26,416 This is been a 3571 01:06:26,416 --> 01:06:28,083 great conversation. So, yeah. 3572 01:06:28,083 --> 01:06:29,666 That said, 3573 01:06:29,666 --> 01:06:31,875 check out everywhere you've, 3574 01:06:31,875 --> 01:06:33,125 you've already directed 3575 01:06:33,125 --> 01:06:35,500 people to and, yeah. 3576 01:06:35,500 --> 01:06:37,375 Thanks again for joining us. 3577 01:06:37,375 --> 01:06:37,791 Thanks so much 3578 01:06:37,791 --> 01:06:39,000 for having me, guys. 3579 01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:40,083 Hope to see you again soon 3580 01:06:40,083 --> 01:06:40,875 in real life. 3581 01:06:40,875 --> 01:06:42,916 So yeah. 3582 01:06:42,916 --> 01:06:43,750 Thanks, guys. 3583 01:06:43,750 --> 01:06:44,625 Thanks again. 3584 01:06:44,625 --> 01:06:45,666 This has been the Bitcoin 3585 01:06:45,666 --> 01:06:46,625 Infinity Show. 3586 01:06:46,625 --> 01:06:47,541 Thank you for listening.