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if your price isn't your life, then you can be bought.

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if you don't own your integrity above the monetary price on it,

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then you don't own it at all.

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And then you can be bought.

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It's just about finding the price.

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But for some people, integrity trumps everything.

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just because that's how they find purpose and meaning in the world,  personally, I

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can't think of any worse thing than not respecting myself or not, living up to

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what I demand from myself or from others.

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once you legitimize forcefully.

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Restricting people's freedom over a narrative of risk.

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It's game over because that's, that's a slide that it never stops midway.

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It stops at complete prison world.

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I think that that was also a good thing that more people probably have made

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their observations and reflections on the dynamic between freedom and, and safety.

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hodlonaut, welcome to the Freedom Footprint show for

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our special hundredth episode.

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Thanks a lot for joining us.

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Thank you guys, looking forward to chatting.

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Now just to be clear, this, this man over here, uh, or this cat over

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here, is a, uh, an entity who claims to be Hodlonaut, the infamous Mr.

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Cat.

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Uh, as far as I know, there's no, like, real evidence that he is, or isn't.

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Uh, so, so, are you planning on, like, uh, going to court with that, and,

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and figuring out what the actual truth about you being Hodlonaut really is?

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I don't see any way out of it, to be honest, I mean, the truth.

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Must come out.

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So yeah,

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Yeah, it's, it's not as simple as just signing a bunch of, uh, private

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keys, or signing a message, uh, like, uh, that would be too easy, right?

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You need, like, years in court to finally

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yeah, very different steps to this process, you know, including like

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thesis samples and, uh, stuff like that.

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So it's, yeah, it'll be a process.

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And, uh, there, there's so many programs you have to have in order

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to, you know, uh, retroactively, uh, make the correct documents to prove

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that something happened 10 years ago.

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Exactly.

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It's, uh, it's, it's a lot of work.

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Proof of work.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think, I think we will end up in a good place.

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I think so too.

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. Well, in all, in all serious, dear Mr.

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Kat.

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Um, I, I know you're not a, a vengeful spirit, but how do you

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feel now that the, uh, that we.

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Are actually, provably, all Satoshi, except one person on earth.

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I mean, that's been my truth and your truth and all of my

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friends truth for a long time.

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So, I don't really feel much different, you know, nothing

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changed, uh, in regards to facts.

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But, uh, of course, it's, uh, it's a huge, joy, I would say, to see, uh, Truth

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establishing itself outside of us who always knew and to see, you know, the,

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the tip of the dildo consequences starting to, you know, tease, tease a little bit.

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it seldom arrives lubed, does it?

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That old

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I think this one is going to be extra unlooped.

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Yeah, and I heard that that judge has ordered his funds frozen, which

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is like double hilarious, right?

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Yeah, uh, it's, uh, it's, it sounds crazy.

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Worldwide freezing order on, on his assets.

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I think, I don't think it's often that a UK judge goes to that step, to

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be honest, I have no idea, like, how it will be executed and what type of

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power UK courts have internationally, probably significant, but it

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obviously underlines I don't know.

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Quite a few things about Craig Wright, as the judge explicitly

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said in his freezing order judgment.

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So there will be nothing left to the imagination in regards of who

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and what Craig Wright is after we get the final written judgment

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in a couple of weeks, hopefully.

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But, uh, yeah, it's, it's hilarious that the guy, you know, instantly after getting

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this unexpected, uh, verbal judgment from the bench saying that Craig is not Satoshi

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and so on, he immediately started, you know, to try to evade the UK with his, uh,

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remaining funds, uh, probably some pocket money he got from, from Calvin, uh, after

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Calvin got bored of funding all this shit.

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Do you think you could give us a, uh, uh, for any of our listeners who aren't aware

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of some of the backstory, a short TLDR on, uh, all the backstory of this and,

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uh, how you got unfortunately involved?

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Yeah, I can do a super short one because.

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I'm sure a lot of people are getting bored with this story, me including,

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uh, I do very much look forward to not talking about this shit anymore, but uh,

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as long as it's a thing, it's a thing, and it's not, I mean, I can only control my

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own actions and I'm still in too active lawsuit, so very short summary in 2019

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I tweeted that Craig Wright is a fraud.

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And they decided to, uh, uh, go after me legally.

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They wanted me to apologize to Craig and, uh, say that he is Satoshi

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Nakamoto, or else they would dox me and, uh, take me to court.

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And, uh, I never, obviously, was willing to say that he is Satoshi Nakamoto.

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So, five years later now, uh, yesterday actually marked five year

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Anniversary to the day, uh, when I first received these threats.

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Um, so it's been a really long fight in the justice system, so

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Norway and United Kingdom, and, uh, I've gotten to test my own stamina

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and, uh, I don't know my own, uh.

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Willingness to put my head on the chopping block.

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Um, and, but most importantly, you know, it's been an amazing journey

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to see and feel all the support from Bitcoiners who helped me stand strong.

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So I'm definitely, this has been another one of those kind

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of a blessing in disguise.

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I mean, it's not totally not a blessing to have five years of

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your life disrupted like this, but when you approach it stoically.

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There are blessings to be found on the road, and a lot of them, and I

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really, I feel better and stronger now than I did five years ago, so, happy.

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Now, that's great to hear.

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Um, and, but this, this trial in the UK now where, where, uh, Craig was

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proven not to be Satoshi, uh, that had very little to do with you, right?

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Yeah, my cases were libel cases, are libel cases.

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I mean, to say they had nothing to do with me is like a truth with

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modifications, I guess, because Throughout the trial, my Norwegian trial

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against Greg was mentioned extensively.

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It was, I did a search in the skeleton closing arguments from COPA, and

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my case was referenced more than 70 times in the closing arguments.

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And, uh, you know, even in this written judgment from the judge yesterday, it was

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referred to Craig's conduct in my case.

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So it's, it, my case has definitely helped, you know, COPPA establish this

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web of lies and deceit and kind of forced Craig and his witnesses to, to

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contradict themselves several times.

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So even though the case.

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My cases are still ongoing after this.

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I will have to make them go away on my own.

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But, uh, yeah, I think, I think my efforts helped, uh, COPPA and that made me happy.

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Yeah.

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And what does COPPA stand for?

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Crypto Open Patent Alliance.

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It was formed, you know, to protect, uh, Bitcoin entities from, uh,

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hostile law fair based on patent trolling and shit, which, uh, was one

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of the strategies that, uh, Craig, uh, and m Chain were aiming for.

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yeah.

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Uh, so.

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Yeah, I guess Craig's chances are, against you now, are practically zero, right?

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it would seem so, it's, I mean, he's now declared.

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Basically reading the judge's judgments now is almost like reading

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my tweets from five years ago.

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So, I don't know.

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Let's see what they can do.

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If they want to go forward in the courts, I'm going to be there.

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I don't know.

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I think it boils down to how much they want to harass me now.

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I

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Calvin Air, has he said anything at this point?

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Like what's his, uh, he's tired of paying him, you said?

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Like what, what indications do we have from, from that camp?

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mean, this CEO, Kristian Agerhansen, who became a whistleblower last

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autumn, he has leaked a lot of emails, including one from Calvin to Craig,

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where Calvin basically said, you know, Craig, you're going to lose so badly.

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I'm pissed at you for losing so badly.

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I'm tired of wasting my children's inheritance on your wrecked lawsuits

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and I'm the only person standing between you and the soup kitchen, he wrote.

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Uh, so he was pissed with Craig's lack of success.

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Uh, but I found it funny that, you know, the day after Craig was deemed to be

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not Satoshi by the judge, Unexpectedly, because everyone was expecting a written

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judgment, but the judge basically said the evidence is so overwhelming that

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I basically, I can just give you these facts right now to do this not Satoshi.

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And the day after, uh, Calvin announced on Twitter that, uh, he had been

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planning this, this trip for a long time.

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So now he was, you know, bye bye guys.

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I'm going on this trip, I've been planning it for a long time.

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So he disappeared from Twitter the day after that, and now he has

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some, some team tweeting for him.

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I

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Ah, what a, what a clusterfuck the whole thing is.

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Uh, yeah, so I've seen, In the aftermath of this, when, when, um, when it was

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finally quote unquote proven that Craig was not associated, which should have

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been obvious to so many people for such a long time, you've seen people from

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the BSV camp and from the BCH camp, uh, sort of, uh, coming out on Twitter now

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and saying, oh, I'm sorry I was wrong.

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I was duped, and, uh, it wasn't my fault.

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Please let me back into the proper Bitcoin community.

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What's your reaction to that?

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mean, I don't know.

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I don't hold many grudges, to be honest, there are certain people that

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I wanna see consequences being brought to, you know, the central players,

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but, uh, I mean, humans are generally able To get scammed very hard, and uh,

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they're also able to hold on to scam bags for a long time to not, you know,

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face the, face directors basically.

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So, I feel sorry for them.

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Many of these BSV people, and obviously this is a big part of why I tweeted

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so actively back in 2019 about this subject, because I wanted to warn

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people because I saw some people selling their BTC and buying into

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this BSV thing, which is really bad.

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So of course, a lot of people have lost everything.

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BSV is down something like 98 percent against BTC from the tops.

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So, I don't know, sunk cost fallacy, the pain of realizing

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that you lost everything.

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I think that's what's been holding a lot of people in this cult until

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now, but I'm happy to see, like, the cult is really, seems to be imploding

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from the inside at this point.

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Yeah, it reminds me of that Mark Twain quote, it's easier to

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fool a person than to convince them that they have been fooled.

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Uh, which is very much the case here, I think.

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That's a, that's a phenomenon that you see a lot in the, the crypto sphere so to say.

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It's all that, right?

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It's, it's the scammers themselves, themselves, and then there are

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people who, uh, are hard to convince that they have been fooled.

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Yes.

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So, uh, like, like, do you have any plans for what's, what's, for you in the future?

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Like, uh, are you, are you making, uh, like, plans for what happens

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after your life is de ruined?

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00:15:35,453 --> 00:15:39,773
My life was never ruined and that's, uh, that's, I never gave

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them that, uh, win, you know?

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Uh, and I think, yeah, I mean, we've been hanging out throughout this

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journey, Knut, and you know that my spirits have never been broken, so.

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No, no, you're my, you're my hero, man.

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I mean, uh, it's, uh, you're such a fucking great example to everyone here

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in how to tackle things like this.

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And I didn't mean your life being ruined, but time was stolen

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from your life for a long time.

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Like, yeah, you have to give him that.

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He managed to steal your time.

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He managed to, you know, uh, dictate which cards I was dealt at a certain

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point in my life, and I've been able, I had to just, you know, deal with those

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cards and play those cards as best as I could, but, um, I know, I understand

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00:16:27,496 --> 00:16:33,212
your question, and, uh, I don't really have big ambitions of doing huge things

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in this, in this space, to be honest, you know, I, I, I love hanging out with my

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friends and my family and, uh, talking about being a part of the community.

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Of course, I fully intend to continue that, but, I can't say I have these

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grand plans of, uh, doing wild things.

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I'll probably, you know, be sitting here calling out bullshit artists in

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five years, just like I've been doing.

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Uh, I do have a job now in the Bitcoin space.

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I can show that briefly.

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I work for the Bitcoin advisor, helping people with the custody, helping

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people get their coins off exchanges.

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So I will have more time to dedicate to work like that.

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Going forward, but mostly, you know, I will just, uh, enjoy life.

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Yeah, we're, we just signed up for that, uh, me and Luke too, so we're,

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00:17:28,459 --> 00:17:31,209
or, uh, quite a while back now.

229
00:17:31,259 --> 00:17:33,389
Uh, I mean, we're also Bitcoin advisors.

230
00:17:33,679 --> 00:17:35,219
We're all Bitcoin advisors here.

231
00:17:35,539 --> 00:17:36,409
I didn't know that.

232
00:17:36,629 --> 00:17:37,449
So we are colleagues?

233
00:17:37,739 --> 00:17:38,629
Is that what you're saying?

234
00:17:38,914 --> 00:17:39,664
We're colleagues.

235
00:17:40,074 --> 00:17:40,434
We are

236
00:17:40,819 --> 00:17:42,879
Hey, awesome.

237
00:17:44,199 --> 00:17:44,489
Amazing.

238
00:17:45,034 --> 00:17:45,814
It is awesome.

239
00:17:46,331 --> 00:17:47,471
And I guess, uh,

240
00:17:47,836 --> 00:17:50,266
colleagues hanging around the water cooler right now.

241
00:17:51,450 --> 00:17:52,110
it is.

242
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,070
We're, we're around the water cooler here.

243
00:17:55,180 --> 00:17:55,440
Yeah.

244
00:17:55,490 --> 00:18:01,420
And, uh, uh, I mean, people will still be wrong on the internet, right?

245
00:18:01,430 --> 00:18:03,490
So you do have that job as well.

246
00:18:04,095 --> 00:18:04,545
Yeah.

247
00:18:04,965 --> 00:18:09,872
And, it has been extremely important and I 100 percent think it will

248
00:18:09,892 --> 00:18:14,922
continue to be important that people speak their mind in, uh, in Bitcoin.

249
00:18:15,492 --> 00:18:20,912
The meat, the meat space, the meat layer of Bitcoin is an integral

250
00:18:20,912 --> 00:18:22,252
part of Bitcoin, obviously.

251
00:18:22,803 --> 00:18:28,941
And we do need people to be brave and to stand up and say unpopular things and

252
00:18:29,021 --> 00:18:32,771
call out popular people, uh, slay heroes.

253
00:18:33,529 --> 00:18:41,493
Because these meat space narratives, if the wrong shit takes hold, it can

254
00:18:41,503 --> 00:18:45,133
still harm Bitcoin, in my opinion.

255
00:18:45,683 --> 00:18:53,193
And just, you know, to have hundreds or thousands of cyber hornets continuously

256
00:18:53,193 --> 00:18:56,873
picking apart the small lies and the big lies, I think it's It's

257
00:18:56,873 --> 00:19:00,713
important in Bitcoin and it's important in the world outside of Bitcoin.

258
00:19:00,723 --> 00:19:08,553
So uh, yeah, and Bitcoiners are good at it and uh, I intend to continue speaking

259
00:19:08,553 --> 00:19:10,793
my mind at least as much as I can.

260
00:19:11,470 --> 00:19:16,110
100 percent yeah, that's, that's crucial and uh, yeah, that's one, one

261
00:19:16,110 --> 00:19:20,470
of the things that I fell in love with, with this space, uh, the, the ability

262
00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:24,280
to slay your heroes and speak your mind like that so many people had.

263
00:19:25,057 --> 00:19:31,217
By the way, I saw, uh, Roger Veer showed up in my Twitter feed the other day.

264
00:19:31,577 --> 00:19:36,811
I mean, it's been a while, uh, do we expect the resurgence of

265
00:19:36,941 --> 00:19:40,761
other shitty shitcoin narratives now that, that Craig is gone?

266
00:19:40,761 --> 00:19:40,825
I don't know.

267
00:19:41,302 --> 00:19:41,742
I think so.

268
00:19:42,622 --> 00:19:50,762
I think, you know, like in the, almost like a metaphor for how terrible

269
00:19:50,772 --> 00:19:56,102
fashion ideas come back after everyone forgets how bad ideas they were.

270
00:19:56,772 --> 00:19:58,042
Yeah, this Roger Ware thing.

271
00:19:58,042 --> 00:19:58,812
What the fuck is that?

272
00:19:59,352 --> 00:20:00,132
What the fuck is that?

273
00:20:00,322 --> 00:20:04,642
Now he's like being whitewashed into some kind of dude that, you know,

274
00:20:04,652 --> 00:20:07,342
he's such a crusader for freedom.

275
00:20:08,262 --> 00:20:11,662
I see like Bitcoiners retweeting Roger Ware shit now.

276
00:20:11,942 --> 00:20:18,852
Uh, like how Roger Ware, Bitcoin was never a get quick, a get rich quick scheme.

277
00:20:18,882 --> 00:20:21,102
It was a get free quick scheme.

278
00:20:21,617 --> 00:20:23,567
Go fuck yourself, Roger Ware, you know.

279
00:20:24,627 --> 00:20:30,867
I vividly remember his attack on Bitcoin, and it was way more

280
00:20:30,867 --> 00:20:32,687
serious than what Craig Wright did.

281
00:20:33,197 --> 00:20:34,387
managed to do.

282
00:20:34,387 --> 00:20:40,307
I think Bitcoin was actually under threat for real back in 17.

283
00:20:41,627 --> 00:20:47,427
And, uh, the methods that he and, uh, his side used were sinister

284
00:20:47,427 --> 00:20:50,107
as fuck and organized as fuck.

285
00:20:50,417 --> 00:20:54,777
And they were, they were funded like, you know, God knows how much

286
00:20:54,777 --> 00:20:56,237
money was lost in that attack.

287
00:20:57,352 --> 00:21:02,232
But, you know, to, to see people like, uh, yeah, I'm not going to mention any names,

288
00:21:02,282 --> 00:21:07,622
but I, I just was, became aware of this today and I've seen certain people that I

289
00:21:07,642 --> 00:21:14,412
respected and that I would never think was this blind to history or, you know, it,

290
00:21:14,452 --> 00:21:19,787
it, it doesn't even make sense to me how they are giving Roger I'm A platform and

291
00:21:20,047 --> 00:21:26,047
basically joining this whole small blocker toxic Maxis is a problem, you know,

292
00:21:26,247 --> 00:21:31,547
we, we need to bring the big blockers back and bring their narratives back.

293
00:21:31,547 --> 00:21:32,467
Like, what the fuck?

294
00:21:33,212 --> 00:21:34,642
It's, it annoys me.

295
00:21:36,207 --> 00:21:39,077
and the block size was increased with SegWit.

296
00:21:39,677 --> 00:21:40,797
Like, the limit was

297
00:21:40,842 --> 00:21:46,592
absolutely was, so the attack was, in some way, slightly successful.

298
00:21:47,357 --> 00:21:47,827
Yeah.

299
00:21:48,197 --> 00:21:53,387
I think the only one I remember fighting for smaller blocks was, uh, Luke.

300
00:21:54,642 --> 00:21:55,072
Mhm.

301
00:21:55,172 --> 00:21:55,862
back in the day.

302
00:21:56,827 --> 00:21:57,057
Not

303
00:21:57,242 --> 00:22:00,422
Oh  no, not that Luke, another Luke

304
00:22:01,087 --> 00:22:04,857
Even though I was told I looked like him multiple times on Madeira, that was

305
00:22:05,082 --> 00:22:05,472
Yeah.

306
00:22:05,742 --> 00:22:06,882
You look like him.

307
00:22:07,322 --> 00:22:07,682
Yes.

308
00:22:08,222 --> 00:22:09,092
You look like him.

309
00:22:09,362 --> 00:22:10,112
That's what you do.

310
00:22:10,292 --> 00:22:10,502
Yeah.

311
00:22:11,152 --> 00:22:11,242
Yeah.

312
00:22:11,962 --> 00:22:13,952
look, they look very similar.

313
00:22:14,002 --> 00:22:14,512
Yes.

314
00:22:14,662 --> 00:22:15,952
You, you look minded.

315
00:22:15,957 --> 00:22:17,452
And, uh, and

316
00:22:17,632 --> 00:22:18,952
Look, mate.

317
00:22:20,294 --> 00:22:21,284
you're a lookalike.

318
00:22:21,299 --> 00:22:26,899
seriously, the, the, the, the, with, uh, with, uh, with Luke though and

319
00:22:26,899 --> 00:22:31,809
everything, uh, him being the, the only one advocating, as you say, for smaller,

320
00:22:32,109 --> 00:22:38,629
Blocks, now is the, uh, basically Luke and Ocean Mining are now sort of at this

321
00:22:38,629 --> 00:22:44,359
forefront of, of, uh, the, the, this fight against, uh, as Knut likes to put it,

322
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:50,849
Schrodinger's JPEGs, uh, you, you have any thoughts on, uh, this particular issue?

323
00:22:51,298 --> 00:22:52,478
I absolutely do.

324
00:22:53,063 --> 00:22:59,253
I'm, I refrained from taking, when it comes to, you know, the, the filtering,

325
00:22:59,563 --> 00:23:06,482
uh, question, uh, or as it's framed, you know, the censorship question from, from

326
00:23:06,663 --> 00:23:12,743
the other side, it's, it's felt to me a little bit like almost like it was bait,

327
00:23:12,793 --> 00:23:17,663
you know, that they wanted to bait people into starting to filter out this shit

328
00:23:17,813 --> 00:23:24,018
instead of letting it die organically It was and is extremely inorganic.

329
00:23:24,878 --> 00:23:28,728
The moment, if you know, a huge part of the Bitcoin ecosystem

330
00:23:28,738 --> 00:23:34,918
started filtering this bullshit, it would be an amazing way to divide.

331
00:23:36,228 --> 00:23:44,468
Because they would have, if not a fully, fully fleshed out, uh, argument.

332
00:23:45,558 --> 00:23:48,788
They would have an argument that would land with a lot of people.

333
00:23:48,788 --> 00:23:51,048
This is censorship, this is anti Bitcoin, you know.

334
00:23:51,258 --> 00:23:53,108
Uh, look at these people.

335
00:23:53,828 --> 00:23:57,538
It would be a very powerful way to split the community further.

336
00:23:57,568 --> 00:24:04,288
And so, so I kind of prefer to take the stance that this, this is bad faith.

337
00:24:04,668 --> 00:24:07,738
This is, in my opinion, probably funded.

338
00:24:08,198 --> 00:24:16,718
You know, this mass printing of JPEGs, but, uh, I think it's not a

339
00:24:16,718 --> 00:24:22,513
good idea to mount To try to, you know, counter it too forcefully, I

340
00:24:22,523 --> 00:24:23,983
think it will go away on its own.

341
00:24:24,073 --> 00:24:30,443
And there's also, you know, the truth that the future will

342
00:24:30,443 --> 00:24:32,823
bring very high on chain fees.

343
00:24:33,063 --> 00:24:35,033
That's, that's not the question.

344
00:24:35,753 --> 00:24:38,873
So we have to start digesting that reality too.

345
00:24:39,103 --> 00:24:46,983
And if it, it doesn't mean it's okay to prematurely introduce it, but Uh,

346
00:24:46,983 --> 00:24:53,823
yeah, I'm, I'm, I appreciate that that ocean mining was spun up and that they

347
00:24:53,833 --> 00:24:57,613
do what they do, but I also appreciate that they have remained kind of like a

348
00:24:57,613 --> 00:25:00,738
niche part of the whole, uh, ecosystem.

349
00:25:01,358 --> 00:25:03,798
I almost totally agree to this.

350
00:25:03,828 --> 00:25:10,318
I, I, I also think that the whole debate is very manufactured and very, it's,

351
00:25:10,448 --> 00:25:15,308
it's a whole, the whole narrative that there is a, a war at all, and that

352
00:25:15,318 --> 00:25:20,808
there is, uh, two different sides to a problem that is obviously creating,

353
00:25:20,808 --> 00:25:25,518
as you say, this, this rift between confused people and less confused people.

354
00:25:28,748 --> 00:25:29,038
Yes.

355
00:25:29,798 --> 00:25:30,188
Yes.

356
00:25:30,968 --> 00:25:31,968
For those of you.

357
00:25:33,048 --> 00:25:33,408
Yeah.

358
00:25:33,418 --> 00:25:34,008
how it gets.

359
00:25:34,008 --> 00:25:34,448
Yeah.

360
00:25:34,533 --> 00:25:34,883
Nice.

361
00:25:34,893 --> 00:25:39,743
So, so, uh, I think the filters themselves though are, are,

362
00:25:39,743 --> 00:25:41,543
um, are probably a good thing.

363
00:25:41,653 --> 00:25:44,953
Uh, every time we find a block that doesn't have this bullshit,

364
00:25:45,013 --> 00:25:46,363
it's, it's a win for Bitcoin.

365
00:25:47,542 --> 00:25:52,378
And I mean, the filters are, filters are applied, bottom up

366
00:25:52,398 --> 00:25:54,278
right in a decentralized manner.

367
00:25:54,278 --> 00:25:55,088
It's, uh.

368
00:25:56,108 --> 00:26:02,398
It's, it, it is, and it should always be the, the choice of the pool, which filters

369
00:26:02,398 --> 00:26:06,478
they run, and then it's the choice of hash rate, which pool they wanna mine with.

370
00:26:06,478 --> 00:26:09,498
So it's, it's not really an issue.

371
00:26:10,288 --> 00:26:15,738
Uh, but it, it could be very easily be, be spun into a big issue.

372
00:26:16,368 --> 00:26:16,708
Yeah.

373
00:26:17,108 --> 00:26:21,588
The, the stance we're firmly taking here, like, we're, we're talking, me and Luke

374
00:26:21,588 --> 00:26:25,883
talk a lot about this and the, like, the, the stance we're really, Aligned on here

375
00:26:25,883 --> 00:26:34,093
is that we want to differentiate between a miner and a hash salesman because you

376
00:26:34,098 --> 00:26:35,623
have to choose which, which you are.

377
00:26:35,623 --> 00:26:37,783
You can't really call yourself a Bitcoin miner.

378
00:26:37,783 --> 00:26:42,083
If you don't decide on what block to mine on like that, then you're not a miner.

379
00:26:42,083 --> 00:26:44,513
You're just selling your computer power to someone else.

380
00:26:44,908 --> 00:26:45,238
I agree.

381
00:26:45,388 --> 00:26:54,443
But then, uh, have you discussed at which point this, uh, like at which

382
00:26:54,443 --> 00:26:58,553
point you move from being a hash rate salesman to, to a minor, like, because.

383
00:26:59,988 --> 00:27:04,838
Uh, I mean, uh, there are two polar opposites here, of course, like, you

384
00:27:04,838 --> 00:27:08,956
know, you'd actually be, like, just mining without being in a pool, then

385
00:27:08,956 --> 00:27:13,056
you're a miner, but, I mean, you will have zero chance of mining a block,

386
00:27:13,366 --> 00:27:18,896
uh, but, uh, on the other hand, you know, you're just blindly mining with

387
00:27:18,896 --> 00:27:20,273
some fucked up pool that So, yeah.

388
00:27:20,273 --> 00:27:20,451
That's it.

389
00:27:21,231 --> 00:27:28,051
has maybe a bad policy than your hashrate salesman, but where, like, what do we

390
00:27:28,051 --> 00:27:32,431
need to be able to call a person a minor?

391
00:27:33,706 --> 00:27:38,536
Transparency, like from the pool, like, like, um, if, if, if, if

392
00:27:38,536 --> 00:27:42,331
the hash salesman is totally aware of what the, the pool is doing.

393
00:27:42,796 --> 00:27:47,576
And then they can claim to be a miner, but, but like, if they can't, if they

394
00:27:47,576 --> 00:27:50,736
don't know what's coming in the block until the block is actually mined,

395
00:27:50,746 --> 00:27:55,416
then they're not miners, they're hash salesmen, like, and, but as

396
00:27:55,416 --> 00:27:56,946
you say, it's a tricky distinction.

397
00:27:58,251 --> 00:28:02,981
Because you can agree to parts of what the pool is doing, but not all of it.

398
00:28:03,001 --> 00:28:07,511
And, and the, the, the pools can be very deceitful, like they, uh,

399
00:28:08,111 --> 00:28:09,471
and this is what's going on, right?

400
00:28:09,471 --> 00:28:11,221
They're getting paid off band.

401
00:28:11,261 --> 00:28:13,051
They're getting paid off chain.

402
00:28:13,709 --> 00:28:17,519
And the miner never sees that, those transactions because they're,

403
00:28:17,569 --> 00:28:19,399
they're simply not to be seen.

404
00:28:20,379 --> 00:28:25,489
So, uh, and this is the problem with incentives and, and if Bitcoin was only

405
00:28:25,499 --> 00:28:30,449
money and didn't try to be anything else, which, which should be the case,

406
00:28:30,509 --> 00:28:34,969
like this is the power of Bitcoin and why shit coins are, are failing.

407
00:28:35,259 --> 00:28:37,899
Like it's a huge part of it that Bitcoin does not try to

408
00:28:37,899 --> 00:28:39,759
be anything, but, you know.

409
00:28:40,279 --> 00:28:43,489
Number that you keep in your head and give to someone else at some

410
00:28:43,489 --> 00:28:45,789
point, and 21 million, all that.

411
00:28:46,069 --> 00:28:51,559
Resistance to replicability, uh, as soon as you introduce, like, other use cases,

412
00:28:52,089 --> 00:28:58,809
that will dilute the value of Bitcoin as value free money, or wertfrei money.

413
00:28:59,039 --> 00:29:07,009
Uh, so, uh, So there is, like, I mean, I definitely categorize, uh, Monkey JPEGs

414
00:29:07,009 --> 00:29:10,469
and BRC20 tokens and whatnot as spam.

415
00:29:10,509 --> 00:29:11,849
There's no debate about that.

416
00:29:11,859 --> 00:29:12,729
They are spam.

417
00:29:12,739 --> 00:29:14,499
There's no such thing as a rare sat.

418
00:29:14,529 --> 00:29:17,379
There's, just as there's no such thing as a rare centimeter.

419
00:29:17,389 --> 00:29:21,459
Like, uh, it's, it's just a way of measuring, uh, something.

420
00:29:21,469 --> 00:29:24,899
It's, uh, they aren't, they aren't there even.

421
00:29:25,354 --> 00:29:30,644
The difference from the conventional use of the word spam is that there

422
00:29:30,644 --> 00:29:36,024
is little or no skin in the game with email spam, for example.

423
00:29:37,204 --> 00:29:41,454
But with this type of spam, it costs their shirts, you know, to do the

424
00:29:41,454 --> 00:29:44,444
spamming, which which, uh, which, but.

425
00:29:45,209 --> 00:29:49,539
I agree, it's still spam, but it's, uh, unsustainable spam.

426
00:29:50,589 --> 00:29:52,779
Well, not if you have a money printer.

427
00:29:52,849 --> 00:29:55,259
Then it's just as free as email spam.

428
00:29:56,039 --> 00:29:59,679
I was caveating that exact thing in my mind while I said it, and it's

429
00:29:59,689 --> 00:30:07,691
true, but, uh, until we have, you know, uh, more, At this point, you

430
00:30:07,691 --> 00:30:12,881
know, I don't think the distance to the money printer, uh, is short enough

431
00:30:12,931 --> 00:30:15,521
that that's actually what's going on.

432
00:30:15,821 --> 00:30:17,011
Uh, even though it is,

433
00:30:17,879 --> 00:30:22,459
It's a potential attack vector in the future at least, and uh, but

434
00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:24,239
there's a very easy cure to it.

435
00:30:24,259 --> 00:30:25,589
Just don't sell your bitcoin.

436
00:30:25,919 --> 00:30:26,939
It's that simple.

437
00:30:27,679 --> 00:30:32,609
Especially not to a politician or someone with, you know,

438
00:30:33,069 --> 00:30:34,319
access to the monetary spigot.

439
00:30:35,124 --> 00:30:35,354
yeah.

440
00:30:35,354 --> 00:30:39,764
And any, any widespread attempt at something like that will just,

441
00:30:39,864 --> 00:30:43,724
you know, put a fire under the ass of hyperbitcoinization and

442
00:30:43,744 --> 00:30:45,644
hyperinflation of a fiat money.

443
00:30:45,704 --> 00:30:49,014
So it's not going to be a sustainable strategy.

444
00:30:49,764 --> 00:30:54,134
No, all attacks are welcome in the long run.

445
00:31:47,886 --> 00:31:51,446
Speaking of what maybe some others might see as a different kind of

446
00:31:52,036 --> 00:31:56,326
attack, or at least a different way of kind of money getting into the

447
00:31:56,326 --> 00:32:02,836
system, the institutional adoption from ETFs, attack is maybe a strong word,

448
00:32:02,836 --> 00:32:07,341
but certainly I have heard the angle with that, that that's a way of it.

449
00:32:07,441 --> 00:32:12,851
of the large institutions of capturing Bitcoin, basically, what are your

450
00:32:12,881 --> 00:32:18,521
thoughts on that and maybe the outlook for the next little while since

451
00:32:18,521 --> 00:32:19,871
the ETFs have entered the market?

452
00:32:20,457 --> 00:32:29,157
Yeah, all of these coins are currently residing in the ETFs and I'm very sure

453
00:32:29,157 --> 00:32:34,407
there will be more coins in the ETFs a year from now than we have right now.

454
00:32:36,027 --> 00:32:41,427
I mean, it's a matter of when, not if, that those coins are going to get

455
00:32:42,407 --> 00:32:46,727
confiscated by the state, basically.

456
00:32:46,727 --> 00:32:50,777
And, uh, just, you know, people will obviously be reimbursed

457
00:32:50,817 --> 00:32:53,947
with the full value in the shitty fiat currency, but, uh.

458
00:32:55,152 --> 00:32:58,272
Uh, it's a holy pot just waiting to be, to be grabbed.

459
00:32:58,482 --> 00:33:02,862
And, uh, I think everyone's pretty realistic about that.

460
00:33:03,402 --> 00:33:07,782
But at the same time, this is also inevitable and an inevitable

461
00:33:07,782 --> 00:33:11,922
part of Bitcoin's, uh, or the road towards hyper colonization.

462
00:33:11,922 --> 00:33:15,207
And I'm not worried about it at all.

463
00:33:15,742 --> 00:33:18,592
It's gonna be more lessons for new generational people.

464
00:33:19,457 --> 00:33:20,817
Uh, for sure.

465
00:33:21,707 --> 00:33:28,887
And, uh, I mean, one perspective that I think is very, at least for me, having

466
00:33:28,887 --> 00:33:34,137
been in Bitcoin for a long time, it's, I'm kind of amazed it took this long.

467
00:33:34,137 --> 00:33:41,437
I mean, they could have swooped in much earlier, done a much worse, uh, land

468
00:33:41,457 --> 00:33:44,667
grab of coins and, and centralized.

469
00:33:45,287 --> 00:33:50,977
Bitcoin that in that way, uh, so I'm, I'm, I'm kind of happy that we managed

470
00:33:50,977 --> 00:33:57,257
to get all the way to 24 until this happened in a, I mean, GBTC has been

471
00:33:57,287 --> 00:34:01,787
soaking up a lot of coins, obviously for a, for a good while, but I don't know,

472
00:34:01,837 --> 00:34:07,457
I don't see it as, it's going to be like a tool in the future of this war,

473
00:34:08,097 --> 00:34:10,237
but it's not gonna make any difference.

474
00:34:10,292 --> 00:34:10,302
I

475
00:34:11,359 --> 00:34:19,844
Well, and GBTC has sort of been turned out to be a Tool, or at least a lever that has

476
00:34:19,844 --> 00:34:22,274
been dampening the number go up of it all.

477
00:34:22,634 --> 00:34:28,604
Uh, the, the skeptic or the, the conspiracist, uh, among us might

478
00:34:28,604 --> 00:34:35,144
think that GBTC was intentionally used to, uh, uh, give the ETFs a, a

479
00:34:35,144 --> 00:34:39,824
cheaper access points, but they're going to run out of, uh, of coins

480
00:34:39,824 --> 00:34:42,284
themselves, uh, eventually here and, uh.

481
00:34:43,074 --> 00:34:47,484
Then there shouldn't be another lever to pull, but um, what do you think?

482
00:34:47,484 --> 00:34:51,914
Do you indulge in the conspiracy that GBTC is sort of in on

483
00:34:51,914 --> 00:34:53,194
this to depress the price?

484
00:34:54,074 --> 00:34:58,024
mean, I don't shy away from conspiracy theorists, that's for sure, but,

485
00:34:58,144 --> 00:35:03,241
uh, yeah, it's a possibility that this was a play all along.

486
00:35:03,241 --> 00:35:08,074
It's, it's, uh, the setup was almost, like, a little bit too good to be

487
00:35:08,074 --> 00:35:13,237
true that they are dumping this hard for this long, allowing these other

488
00:35:13,237 --> 00:35:15,357
BTCs and, and, you know, the BTC.

489
00:35:15,812 --> 00:35:18,962
Pizza slice in general to increase.

490
00:35:20,058 --> 00:35:27,958
and, uh, I'm noticing how this ETF inflows, ETF outflows have completely

491
00:35:27,958 --> 00:35:33,258
dominated the whole fundamental debate of Bitcoin price lately, which

492
00:35:33,268 --> 00:35:36,688
is kind of ridiculous as if there is no demand outside of these ETFs.

493
00:35:38,583 --> 00:35:43,293
And, uh, yeah, I think, you know, it's, it's good news for all the

494
00:35:43,303 --> 00:35:45,073
stay humble stack sats people.

495
00:35:45,414 --> 00:35:50,094
and, uh, it's very bad news for, uh, people without conviction

496
00:35:50,134 --> 00:35:52,174
and, uh, emotional traders.

497
00:35:52,184 --> 00:36:00,564
I think, uh, this, this, this weeks we've seen lately, I can, the amount of, uh, D

498
00:36:00,564 --> 00:36:03,644
Gen tiers out there must be overflowing.

499
00:36:04,808 --> 00:36:08,378
People who try to speculate the short term on getting more sats.

500
00:36:08,378 --> 00:36:09,658
It's never a good idea.

501
00:36:10,463 --> 00:36:13,673
And for those of you who don't know, uh, ETF stands for Danish

502
00:36:13,673 --> 00:36:16,343
dyslexic, uh, uh, association.

503
00:36:16,673 --> 00:36:21,713
So does G-D-B-T-C and NGU stands for number go dyslectic.

504
00:36:21,773 --> 00:36:22,193
Of course.

505
00:36:25,648 --> 00:36:26,158
That's true.

506
00:36:27,845 --> 00:36:29,935
Knut, did you have anything more helpful to add?

507
00:36:30,555 --> 00:36:32,555
Uh, no, absolutely not.

508
00:36:33,055 --> 00:36:33,535
Your turn.

509
00:36:33,535 --> 00:36:33,715
Look,

510
00:36:34,715 --> 00:36:35,265
Thanks.

511
00:36:35,325 --> 00:36:35,555
Okay.

512
00:36:35,575 --> 00:36:37,445
Well, um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

513
00:36:37,445 --> 00:36:43,715
Like, uh, but, but, uh, maybe for a lens of the, the kind of, um, not even the,

514
00:36:43,745 --> 00:36:49,655
the optimism necessarily, but, uh, uh, the other side of it though, is, is that.

515
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:55,400
Bitcoiners who have, have understood what's going on here

516
00:36:55,620 --> 00:37:01,040
are the ones actually seeing their conviction, uh, play out properly.

517
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,160
And, of course, there are these, uh, the, the ultra bulls in the space, uh,

518
00:37:05,170 --> 00:37:09,730
Samsung comes to mind specifically, uh, you know, million, million dollar

519
00:37:09,740 --> 00:37:11,580
Bitcoin, this cycle, something like that.

520
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,890
Maybe the cycles don't even exist anymore.

521
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:19,540
Uh, but, but, uh, Without talking about sort of an analysis of what the price

522
00:37:19,540 --> 00:37:23,200
is going to be, the basic thesis is that there is a certain amount of Bitcoin in

523
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:29,670
the world, and there is a growing demand for it, and there is a decreasing supply.

524
00:37:30,110 --> 00:37:34,130
Most likely, we're something like five days away from that, when this

525
00:37:34,130 --> 00:37:40,450
episode gets Released and uh, yeah, so, so what, what is your take

526
00:37:40,450 --> 00:37:44,210
on, on the, the next year or two?

527
00:37:44,310 --> 00:37:48,810
What do you think we're in for based on the way things are going?

528
00:37:49,786 --> 00:37:52,519
I have, uh, some thoughts on that.

529
00:37:52,949 --> 00:37:56,959
You know, I've been one of the worst permabulls.

530
00:37:57,639 --> 00:38:03,039
I think, uh, I've never managed quite to entertain the idea that Bitcoin

531
00:38:03,049 --> 00:38:07,749
could possibly ever be worth less in the future than it is right now.

532
00:38:08,609 --> 00:38:11,849
That's always been like, uh, because I always thought Bitcoin was so

533
00:38:11,869 --> 00:38:17,158
undervalued and, uh, for years and years, this feeling has just intensified.

534
00:38:17,498 --> 00:38:23,788
I think, uh, at this point right now, once again, you know, like I would say, A year

535
00:38:23,788 --> 00:38:28,028
ago or two years ago, Bitcoin has never been more undervalued than right now.

536
00:38:29,328 --> 00:38:34,758
And, uh, I think there is a chance that Samson can be right, but then again,

537
00:38:34,978 --> 00:38:38,748
trying to predict what Bitcoin is going to do is one of the most futile,

538
00:38:38,948 --> 00:38:41,848
uh, things you can try to do ever.

539
00:38:42,708 --> 00:38:46,678
Uh, there will always be some shenanigans and unexpected shit

540
00:38:46,718 --> 00:38:53,568
happening, but I, I do really, really, you know, expect Bitcoin to fly.

541
00:38:53,883 --> 00:39:00,053
Uh, the next years, uh, I can't really see any way that's not, that's not happening,

542
00:39:01,223 --> 00:39:07,513
but I don't like to, you know, I do my predictions on the limb sometimes.

543
00:39:07,783 --> 00:39:13,953
Uh, but honestly, you know, I have no fucking idea where we're going to go.

544
00:39:13,953 --> 00:39:15,733
I think we're going to go high.

545
00:39:16,943 --> 00:39:21,503
would you be willing to go out on a limp here and say, because we're now above

546
00:39:21,503 --> 00:39:28,103
70 for like the seventh time, would you be willing to go out on a limb here on

547
00:39:28,103 --> 00:39:30,853
the show and say that we will never.

548
00:39:32,678 --> 00:39:41,228
I, I'm seeing right now we are at 70, 150 on Coinbase Pro, uh, and

549
00:39:41,238 --> 00:39:45,328
that does make me want to go out on a limb and make a prediction.

550
00:39:45,328 --> 00:39:48,338
So I don't think we'll ever see Bitcoin below 70, 000 again.

551
00:39:48,838 --> 00:39:50,098
No, neither do we.

552
00:39:50,318 --> 00:39:54,912
Uh, no, this is the Oh, those limbs.

553
00:39:55,082 --> 00:39:55,972
Uh, yeah.

554
00:39:57,322 --> 00:39:59,632
It's fun to be a limb outer goer.

555
00:39:59,882 --> 00:40:00,152
Yes.

556
00:40:00,822 --> 00:40:01,262
Oh yeah.

557
00:40:01,827 --> 00:40:02,207
yeah.

558
00:40:02,857 --> 00:40:07,067
Like, if we zoom out here, what do you think of the stock to FOMO thing?

559
00:40:07,077 --> 00:40:10,467
That, that this, uh, this whole diminishing returns thing is

560
00:40:10,467 --> 00:40:15,367
wrong and that we'll eventually We'll have a J shaped, uh, uh,

561
00:40:15,407 --> 00:40:17,277
purchasing power curve instead.

562
00:40:17,897 --> 00:40:22,417
Uh, that will be when, when, like, the last bull run happens.

563
00:40:22,657 --> 00:40:23,037
Um,

564
00:40:24,497 --> 00:40:26,897
Is this something I'm not like stuck to FOMO?

565
00:40:27,287 --> 00:40:29,677
Is this a meme I'm not familiar with

566
00:40:29,927 --> 00:40:30,787
maybe not.

567
00:40:30,787 --> 00:40:35,297
I think it's, I think it's Wicked, uh, who, who, who made it the first.

568
00:40:35,987 --> 00:40:40,947
Or who first visualized it, at least, with this, like, you've seen the classic,

569
00:40:40,997 --> 00:40:47,607
uh, yeah, the one that Erik Wall turned into this bullshit rainbow chart, well,

570
00:40:47,627 --> 00:40:52,167
that was a joke, I have to give him that, but, uh, some people fell for it, uh,

571
00:40:52,757 --> 00:40:58,197
but there's the other, uh, theory is that that rainbow will flip at some point.

572
00:40:58,902 --> 00:41:05,382
And you'll get a, a sort of your thesis there that bitcoins cannot go down in

573
00:41:05,382 --> 00:41:10,412
price at some point, that there's a point where there makes absolutely no sense for

574
00:41:10,412 --> 00:41:17,522
enough people to sell so that the price is virtually not going down, uh, at all.

575
00:41:18,692 --> 00:41:25,422
Like, the last bull run, like, it's sort of the way I visualize it, actually, that

576
00:41:25,562 --> 00:41:30,642
on our way to hyperbitcoinization, there is a point where things get really weird.

577
00:41:31,282 --> 00:41:32,802
And that is probably that point.

578
00:41:33,852 --> 00:41:35,582
Anyway, brainfart.

579
00:41:36,587 --> 00:41:44,107
at that point, uh, the purchasing power of Bitcoin will just be completely, uh,

580
00:41:44,477 --> 00:41:48,777
correlated with the amount of people in the world or something like that.

581
00:41:48,777 --> 00:41:50,197
Yeah.

582
00:41:50,312 --> 00:41:53,812
Or rather the amount of stuff, I guess.

583
00:41:54,572 --> 00:42:00,612
Uh, I mean, the way I see it, like hyper colonization is not when

584
00:42:00,612 --> 00:42:02,502
all the people have some Bitcoin.

585
00:42:03,342 --> 00:42:07,912
It's when all the money when Bitcoin has all the money, basically.

586
00:42:08,762 --> 00:42:09,062
Yeah,

587
00:42:10,287 --> 00:42:10,957
Absolutely.

588
00:42:12,537 --> 00:42:17,647
Actually, maybe you can, uh, maybe this is like a point to get more into here, right?

589
00:42:17,657 --> 00:42:20,257
Like, like, what does this actually look like in the future?

590
00:42:20,257 --> 00:42:24,552
The, the point that Knut is Trying to articulate right, like

591
00:42:24,962 --> 00:42:28,952
that, that Bitcoin adoption isn't necessarily for everyone, right?

592
00:42:28,952 --> 00:42:32,652
It's, it's not necessarily going to be possible that everyone

593
00:42:32,652 --> 00:42:34,062
touches the, the base layer.

594
00:42:34,302 --> 00:42:36,642
Can, did you want to jump in and clarify your thoughts here?

595
00:42:36,802 --> 00:42:37,162
yeah, yeah.

596
00:42:37,162 --> 00:42:39,712
It's, it's not that, that, that's another thing.

597
00:42:39,742 --> 00:42:41,002
Uh, thanks for clearing it up.

598
00:42:41,007 --> 00:42:41,422
Look like.

599
00:42:41,427 --> 00:42:44,512
It's, it's not, uh, Bitcoin is for everyone.

600
00:42:44,512 --> 00:42:46,102
Is is sort of a weird meme.

601
00:42:46,107 --> 00:42:49,852
It's it's not for every one, every person, it's for every dollar.

602
00:42:49,972 --> 00:42:52,792
Like it's, it's not for all the people, it's for all the money.

603
00:42:54,042 --> 00:42:54,494
What do you think of that?

604
00:42:55,419 --> 00:43:00,949
I think, uh, I mean, I, I talked about the amount of humans.

605
00:43:00,949 --> 00:43:01,439
I think.

606
00:43:03,004 --> 00:43:08,924
Is the amount of things really relevant if there are not enough humans to put

607
00:43:08,924 --> 00:43:15,674
attention on them and consume them and have any type of relationship with them?

608
00:43:15,694 --> 00:43:22,271
I don't know, but, uh, like your thoughts on this, Knut, and, uh, but

609
00:43:22,271 --> 00:43:26,861
I don't think, you know, I don't, I don't spend too much time thinking

610
00:43:26,861 --> 00:43:31,141
about, because I think there are so many parameters in play here and so many.

611
00:43:32,221 --> 00:43:37,616
It's It's really fascinating philosophically to try to visualize this

612
00:43:37,626 --> 00:43:46,026
future, but, uh, uh, I think there will be, uh, context and, uh, things in this

613
00:43:46,026 --> 00:43:48,086
equation that we don't quite see yet.

614
00:43:48,186 --> 00:43:53,426
And, uh, it's, I think it's very hard to get a grip on how

615
00:43:53,426 --> 00:43:55,396
this future will look like.

616
00:43:55,606 --> 00:43:59,716
Uh, but it's not hard for me to see how.

617
00:44:00,741 --> 00:44:07,011
Instrumental Bitcoin is right now on the road to a more sound future.

618
00:44:07,691 --> 00:44:08,951
Can you expand on that a little bit?

619
00:44:08,951 --> 00:44:10,571
What, what, what are you thinking of that?

620
00:44:11,141 --> 00:44:15,381
Basically, just that at the moment, our whole world is built on sand

621
00:44:15,471 --> 00:44:18,141
and built on theft and scam.

622
00:44:18,611 --> 00:44:27,441
And it's very clear that when you have such a system that enables The bad guys,

623
00:44:27,441 --> 00:44:33,101
if we're gonna simplify it down to that, uh, to print people, uh, to print money

624
00:44:33,641 --> 00:44:41,241
, uh, to incentivize, uh, bad behavior that them, them themselves down to, to gain

625
00:44:41,241 --> 00:44:46,761
from, uh, you can never have any sound structures built on such a foundation.

626
00:44:46,821 --> 00:44:50,411
And, uh, yeah.

627
00:44:50,471 --> 00:44:55,781
Uh, the new world starts with Bitcoin, I think, and, uh, the return to, to

628
00:44:55,781 --> 00:44:57,966
rationality and the return to merit.

629
00:46:15,279 --> 00:46:20,259
this is, this is touching on a point that Sailor made to us in Madeira about, uh,

630
00:46:20,699 --> 00:46:23,409
you know, all the fiat money being toxic.

631
00:46:23,459 --> 00:46:27,289
It's akin to, uh, toxic water, right?

632
00:46:27,289 --> 00:46:31,769
So, so, which means that all of our history books are, are

633
00:46:31,799 --> 00:46:37,289
colored by this toxicity, like, uh, by the, by the, uh, Yeah,

634
00:46:37,724 --> 00:46:40,364
They're paint, I think they're just painted with toxic crayons.

635
00:46:42,544 --> 00:46:44,374
history is painted with toxic crayons.

636
00:46:44,414 --> 00:46:44,994
Exactly.

637
00:46:45,434 --> 00:46:46,824
Uh, yeah.

638
00:46:46,824 --> 00:46:53,464
So, so we might have to revise everything and, and like, um, try to, and I know

639
00:46:53,464 --> 00:46:57,864
of course a lot of Bitcoiners are doing this already and like studying history

640
00:46:57,864 --> 00:47:01,624
and, and trying to read between the lines and figure out what actually happened.

641
00:47:02,209 --> 00:47:04,589
Like, the French Revolution, for instance.

642
00:47:04,599 --> 00:47:05,529
Was that a good thing?

643
00:47:05,549 --> 00:47:06,609
Was that a bad thing?

644
00:47:06,609 --> 00:47:13,069
Uh, you know, uh, there are so many points in history to,

645
00:47:13,119 --> 00:47:16,549
to revise, uh, from this lens.

646
00:47:17,262 --> 00:47:18,042
Very much so.

647
00:47:18,042 --> 00:47:24,192
And, uh, probably it's, I mean, the task, if we're going to talk about

648
00:47:24,242 --> 00:47:28,242
trying to set history straight, I think that's almost, that's probably a task

649
00:47:28,272 --> 00:47:30,952
that's too big to ever really happen.

650
00:47:32,202 --> 00:47:38,242
I've had some, I mean, just our recent history, the lies that we have

651
00:47:38,252 --> 00:47:44,392
built our current narratives from, they're so big and they're so dark.

652
00:47:45,237 --> 00:47:53,667
I mean, just my, uh, journey into realizing how fucked up certain

653
00:47:53,667 --> 00:47:58,557
things are, uh, started with 9 11, I would say, and the fact that 9

654
00:47:58,557 --> 00:48:03,447
11 still stands, like the official narrative still stands, and all the

655
00:48:04,247 --> 00:48:06,597
history blocks after that are built.

656
00:48:07,312 --> 00:48:09,872
Uh, on top of that block.

657
00:48:11,272 --> 00:48:17,182
And then you have like new, new deceitful blocks being built on top of deceit and

658
00:48:17,582 --> 00:48:24,862
just the job to unwind, unwind this all, you know, with our recent COVID live

659
00:48:24,862 --> 00:48:33,592
block and, you know, the ESG, uh, climate blocks and, uh, they have gotten such a

660
00:48:33,592 --> 00:48:39,302
foothold in our Shared consciousness and so many people are so deeply invested in

661
00:48:39,302 --> 00:48:47,492
them that to the, the journey to unwind all of this is, uh, mind blowingly big.

662
00:48:47,572 --> 00:48:56,402
I mean, I've, I've seen how hard it is to unwind just the lies of one man, uh, for

663
00:48:56,402 --> 00:48:59,442
five years, which was so obviously lies.

664
00:48:59,772 --> 00:49:05,242
And as long as you put money behind the lies and repeat them loudly

665
00:49:05,242 --> 00:49:06,752
enough and many times enough, it's.

666
00:49:07,102 --> 00:49:14,082
It's exceedingly difficult to unwind it and, uh, but I think, so I think,

667
00:49:14,082 --> 00:49:16,912
you know, that that can't be the focus.

668
00:49:16,912 --> 00:49:23,412
The focus must be to just be here and now and do sound and true shit with the

669
00:49:23,412 --> 00:49:30,412
tools we have and just trust that the momentum we create will be what unwinds

670
00:49:30,772 --> 00:49:32,442
all of this on a long enough timescale.

671
00:49:33,892 --> 00:49:34,652
Absolutely.

672
00:49:34,682 --> 00:49:39,842
I mean, even the smallest lies, Uh, that people get away with can have

673
00:49:39,852 --> 00:49:43,402
massive, like, butterfly effects on what people think about things.

674
00:49:43,662 --> 00:49:51,312
For instance, when, when you watch public service television, uh, uh, quote unquote

675
00:49:51,352 --> 00:49:55,712
public service television, and they, they, uh, say that something tax funded

676
00:49:55,732 --> 00:49:59,242
is free, like, just framing it like that.

677
00:49:59,587 --> 00:50:03,207
when in reality it's actually more expensive because it's not on

678
00:50:03,217 --> 00:50:06,567
the free market and thus there's no market competition around it.

679
00:50:07,067 --> 00:50:11,097
So whenever they say something is free, that is actually more expensive.

680
00:50:11,327 --> 00:50:13,097
That's little white lie.

681
00:50:13,257 --> 00:50:17,457
And I think 99 percent of the journalists have no clue that

682
00:50:17,467 --> 00:50:18,337
that's what they're doing.

683
00:50:18,337 --> 00:50:19,747
They have no clue they're lying.

684
00:50:20,257 --> 00:50:22,657
Uh, because they never thought about these things.

685
00:50:23,847 --> 00:50:24,337
Exactly.

686
00:50:24,597 --> 00:50:30,087
And by, by lying like that, you, you strengthen the power of the core lie

687
00:50:30,127 --> 00:50:36,327
also by creating this, all of these lies that rest on the, on some false premise.

688
00:50:36,687 --> 00:50:43,537
Uh, so it's a, it's a structure that's continuously reinforced by

689
00:50:43,837 --> 00:50:50,107
the whole force of, uh, mainstream media and, uh, and governments.

690
00:50:50,407 --> 00:50:53,617
But then again, I'm very happy to see that.

691
00:50:54,097 --> 00:50:58,687
The full force of mainstream media is becoming a weaker and weaker

692
00:50:58,687 --> 00:51:07,187
force and, uh, you know, uh, citizen reporting or decentralized individual

693
00:51:07,627 --> 00:51:13,937
reporting is, is gaining stronger and stronger foretold in, in how many

694
00:51:13,937 --> 00:51:16,617
people consume news and information.

695
00:51:17,251 --> 00:51:21,851
Yeah, that's wonderful, and like, that's one of the great things I think, uh, uh,

696
00:51:21,901 --> 00:51:26,701
Elon has done to Twitter, is add that, uh, community thing, instead of having fact

697
00:51:26,701 --> 00:51:28,341
checkers, you have community checking.

698
00:51:28,581 --> 00:51:33,441
Of course, then, Twitter is centralized, and it is, you have to trust that Twitter

699
00:51:33,441 --> 00:51:36,761
is actually doing what they're saying they're doing, but at least it's a

700
00:51:36,771 --> 00:51:38,551
step in the right direction, for sure.

701
00:51:39,311 --> 00:51:39,721
Exactly.

702
00:51:39,721 --> 00:51:45,981
At the risk of being branded an Elon simp again, I mean, I do think

703
00:51:46,011 --> 00:51:47,801
that Elon taking over Twitter was.

704
00:51:48,496 --> 00:51:54,326
of just monumental significance and importance, uh, because they

705
00:51:54,326 --> 00:51:59,776
had a chokehold on, on information, uh, before that happened.

706
00:52:00,431 --> 00:52:06,417
And you can also see, you know, as Twitter or X have opened up, uh, and introduced,

707
00:52:06,517 --> 00:52:11,017
uh, community notes and stuff like that, it's basically become a more accountable

708
00:52:11,017 --> 00:52:13,417
and open platform in terms of information.

709
00:52:14,449 --> 00:52:15,689
people are flocking to it.

710
00:52:16,158 --> 00:52:23,077
because people, without even knowing it, I think people desire truth and,

711
00:52:23,077 --> 00:52:31,677
uh, you know, Nostr, as good as it is, I'm a huge Nostr fan, but, uh, it has

712
00:52:32,137 --> 00:52:37,157
literally zero impact on the global discourse of things and, uh, because

713
00:52:37,467 --> 00:52:38,797
there are not enough people on there.

714
00:52:39,067 --> 00:52:45,444
And, uh, there are no, there's no mainstream attention on it, but the

715
00:52:45,683 --> 00:52:52,043
fact that we now have X with all its flaws and all its warts and small cancer

716
00:52:52,043 --> 00:52:57,753
tumors that it undoubtedly still has, it's still good enough, you know, to, to

717
00:52:57,753 --> 00:53:03,253
get information out there and to bridge the gap between now and the future where

718
00:53:03,253 --> 00:53:11,613
we have, uh, Significant and impactful adoption of Nostr and similar networks.

719
00:53:12,140 --> 00:53:14,870
Yeah, I, uh, I am, I agree to a hundred percent.

720
00:53:14,900 --> 00:53:21,270
I mean, I love Nostr and, uh, but I, I'm unconvinced about the scaling of Nostr.

721
00:53:21,700 --> 00:53:24,470
Like, I think there are issues on the way there and I'm not

722
00:53:24,490 --> 00:53:28,990
entirely convinced that it will, uh, be successful in the long run.

723
00:53:29,010 --> 00:53:31,480
We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

724
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,750
But I love that it exists as an alternative because it puts

725
00:53:34,790 --> 00:53:36,860
pressure on the other things.

726
00:53:37,380 --> 00:53:38,550
It really does because.

727
00:53:39,165 --> 00:53:46,445
As all exits do, um, putting pressure on the competition is always a good thing.

728
00:53:46,575 --> 00:53:50,945
Uh, yeah, and I think, like, Elon taking over Twitter and Jack

729
00:53:50,945 --> 00:53:55,535
focusing on Nostr is, it's the, it's the timeline I want to live in.

730
00:53:56,189 --> 00:54:00,359
And there will, will be, uh, we'll also be going to, uh, Riga in,

731
00:54:00,359 --> 00:54:05,219
uh, in, uh, August, uh, in the, the middle of, uh, an exciting.

732
00:54:05,854 --> 00:54:12,014
Bitcoin Week in Riga, so hopefully we'll get to hear more about Nostr and

733
00:54:12,014 --> 00:54:17,454
uh, that uh, Knut might eventually, we actually have been deficient in this, we

734
00:54:17,464 --> 00:54:20,434
haven't gotten anyone who actually knows anything about Nostr on the show, we've

735
00:54:20,434 --> 00:54:25,934
just talked to people who think they know things about Nostr, so we should

736
00:54:25,934 --> 00:54:29,154
really get on that and get some people who know things about Nostr, right Knut?

737
00:54:29,304 --> 00:54:30,184
absolutely.

738
00:54:30,830 --> 00:54:31,410
I like that.

739
00:54:31,780 --> 00:54:37,060
I was, I hope there will be Nostroi sometime in the future as well.

740
00:54:37,395 --> 00:54:44,546
yeah, yeah, yeah, Nostvangor, Nostöja,

741
00:54:44,584 --> 00:54:48,294
Riga is looking fantastic this year, uh, I mean, uh.

742
00:54:48,684 --> 00:54:53,044
All the conferences are looking fantastic this year, but especially, like, I love

743
00:54:53,044 --> 00:54:58,344
this little trio of Prague, Madeira, and Riga being the high signal, low noise,

744
00:54:58,484 --> 00:55:05,506
uh, European conferences and, and, like, stars aligning there, and Riga will do a

745
00:55:05,516 --> 00:55:10,386
little, oh, I shouldn't announce too much here, maybe too early, but something.

746
00:55:11,516 --> 00:55:13,706
go, let's go ahead, I think we're good now.

747
00:55:14,116 --> 00:55:19,110
Just a teaser, yeah, just a teaser, all right, where were are

748
00:55:19,110 --> 00:55:21,220
we then, yeah, simping for Elon,

749
00:55:21,395 --> 00:55:21,725
we're shill.

750
00:55:21,875 --> 00:55:23,225
Let's actually properly shill Cano.

751
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,135
So, so for, first of all, we're going to be going to Prague here

752
00:55:26,135 --> 00:55:27,905
in, uh, in a couple of months.

753
00:55:27,905 --> 00:55:32,495
And, uh, yeah, use Code Freedom if you would like a discount,

754
00:55:32,500 --> 00:55:36,155
a 10% discount, and you get a further 5% if you pay with Bitcoin.

755
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:41,265
So come join us all in Prague and, uh, you know, are you coming Mr.

756
00:55:41,265 --> 00:55:41,535
Kat?

757
00:55:42,585 --> 00:55:44,275
probably not to Prague, unfortunately, no.

758
00:55:44,475 --> 00:55:46,965
I will make an effort to go to Riga.

759
00:55:47,441 --> 00:55:53,571
But I have to say, I've been talking to the organizers of Prague, uh, Martin and

760
00:55:53,691 --> 00:55:59,291
Matias, uh, quite a bit, and uh, huge respect for them and what they have done.

761
00:55:59,291 --> 00:56:03,301
And I'm extremely bullish on BTC Prague this year.

762
00:56:03,461 --> 00:56:08,811
You know, the, uh, The ethos they are gonna, or like the, what they're going

763
00:56:08,811 --> 00:56:10,891
to focus on this year is super important.

764
00:56:11,101 --> 00:56:14,111
And, uh, I wish I could be there,

765
00:56:14,434 --> 00:56:16,744
Well, maybe let's say that you might see Mr.

766
00:56:16,744 --> 00:56:18,634
Kat there, but probably not.

767
00:56:19,534 --> 00:56:19,884
probably not.

768
00:56:20,689 --> 00:56:25,239
So use code freedom and brush your teeth, uh, FFS, that's,

769
00:56:25,349 --> 00:56:26,369
that's the message, right?

770
00:56:26,964 --> 00:56:28,284
That's the message.

771
00:56:28,594 --> 00:56:32,574
And then, just since we're on the topic, in Riga, we'll be

772
00:56:32,574 --> 00:56:36,694
there putting on an Infinity Day party on Bitcoin Infinity Day, 8.

773
00:56:36,694 --> 00:56:38,924
21, immediately after Noob Day.

774
00:56:38,924 --> 00:56:44,214
So come to Riga early and party with the original Meme

775
00:56:44,224 --> 00:56:46,094
creator himself, Knut Svanholm.

776
00:56:46,939 --> 00:56:54,059
And then there's Nostriga, uh, happening, just, that's the start of Nostriga, right?

777
00:56:54,764 --> 00:56:56,104
Yeah, it starts the next day.

778
00:56:56,164 --> 00:57:00,024
Two days of Nostriga and then actual Baltic Honey Badger, so, yeah,

779
00:57:00,054 --> 00:57:01,854
exciting, exciting things next year.

780
00:57:02,104 --> 00:57:05,904
I hope you, uh, I hope you make it to that whole thing, uh, Mr.

781
00:57:06,019 --> 00:57:08,229
Yeah, Code Freedom there too, I think.

782
00:57:08,619 --> 00:57:09,989
Uh, hopefully.

783
00:57:11,011 --> 00:57:14,941
How many, how much time do you guys think we have?

784
00:57:14,951 --> 00:57:21,421
How many years of this cozy, uh, conference thing that we enjoy these days?

785
00:57:21,771 --> 00:57:25,861
Like when, when is this thing too big for that to happen the

786
00:57:25,861 --> 00:57:27,251
way it's happening right now?

787
00:57:27,336 --> 00:57:29,176
I think about that a lot.

788
00:57:29,376 --> 00:57:34,026
Uh, because I think like, uh, If there, if something was to happen,

789
00:57:34,136 --> 00:57:38,246
uh, on one of these things, you, you remember this anarcho polko thing?

790
00:57:38,256 --> 00:57:43,136
There was a, a murder happening in the same town as, as, uh, there was some,

791
00:57:43,166 --> 00:57:45,386
some anarchist conference or something.

792
00:57:46,076 --> 00:57:50,436
I don't know very much about it, but I know there was some, uh, there was,

793
00:57:50,496 --> 00:57:52,736
uh, someone was shot the same week.

794
00:57:52,736 --> 00:57:58,026
I don't know if it was connected to that or not, but, uh, I mean, that

795
00:57:58,026 --> 00:57:59,356
sort of ended that whole thing.

796
00:57:59,891 --> 00:58:03,711
And I think if, if anything happens to any one of us, um, public faces

797
00:58:03,711 --> 00:58:08,731
in this, uh, during one of these events, that's probably the end of us

798
00:58:08,731 --> 00:58:11,901
being able to hang with other plebs.

799
00:58:12,571 --> 00:58:18,411
And like, I don't really like the idea of a Bitcoin conference where, where you,

800
00:58:18,461 --> 00:58:22,081
you distinguish between tiers of people.

801
00:58:22,101 --> 00:58:25,771
That's that's not really, uh, I.

802
00:58:26,011 --> 00:58:27,871
I don't like the idea of that at all.

803
00:58:27,961 --> 00:58:32,551
Uh, I so, so, and that's also why I am, why I'm doing this a lot right

804
00:58:32,551 --> 00:58:37,136
now is because I, I, I want to squeeze as much out outta this as while,

805
00:58:37,171 --> 00:58:39,241
while, while, while it still exists.

806
00:58:39,241 --> 00:58:40,771
I mean, you don't know about tomorrow day.

807
00:58:41,241 --> 00:58:43,631
When, when COVID 2.

808
00:58:43,631 --> 00:58:49,331
0 is, is invented, then, uh, might be very hard to travel, so, why not?

809
00:58:50,054 --> 00:58:53,164
It's crazy though, when you bring that up, uh.

810
00:58:53,654 --> 00:58:58,624
The COVID thing, first of all, how, how quickly we kind of like forgot about it

811
00:58:58,704 --> 00:59:00,854
or, or people in general, I didn't forget

812
00:59:00,899 --> 00:59:01,224
about it,

813
00:59:01,284 --> 00:59:01,634
did.

814
00:59:03,724 --> 00:59:12,804
but I, I, I totally still have this appreciation for being able to go, you

815
00:59:12,814 --> 00:59:17,947
know, I was in Madeira and just to go there with no bullshit, you know, just

816
00:59:17,957 --> 00:59:22,757
order the tickets, board the plane, go there, no dystopian bullshit happening

817
00:59:23,127 --> 00:59:23,457
or not.

818
00:59:23,747 --> 00:59:24,532
some.

819
00:59:24,532 --> 00:59:25,317
some,

820
00:59:25,547 --> 00:59:26,637
there's the passport.

821
00:59:27,057 --> 00:59:29,867
yeah, and like that you have to throw away your shampoo because

822
00:59:29,867 --> 00:59:33,257
it had too much shampoo in it or something, uh, to security

823
00:59:33,427 --> 00:59:36,377
Yeah, as long as I have my 12 words, I don't care.

824
00:59:37,571 --> 00:59:42,811
yeah, but what I'm, it's, we can't take anything for granted is what I'm saying.

825
00:59:42,821 --> 00:59:47,581
And, uh, we should, you know, be enjoying, just like you said, Knut, we

826
00:59:47,581 --> 00:59:51,801
should appreciate and enjoy this shit while it's here and available for us.

827
00:59:52,176 --> 00:59:55,866
Exactly, I'm just insanely grateful, and I bring this up all the time, like,

828
00:59:55,866 --> 01:00:01,716
whenever I'm on a plane, I'm still amazed that I'm flying, like, it is fantastic,

829
01:00:01,886 --> 01:00:06,076
and you don't know how long that will last, even, like, people take so much for

830
01:00:06,076 --> 01:00:11,836
granted, like, the phone in my pocket, it's amazing, like, James Bond couldn't

831
01:00:11,866 --> 01:00:19,196
dream of this, like, 30 years ago, like, it's just I'm just so insanely grateful

832
01:00:19,206 --> 01:00:23,946
for the things the free market has, the somewhat free market has managed

833
01:00:23,976 --> 01:00:29,046
to produce, and I think the power of markets in general is so underrated.

834
01:00:29,411 --> 01:00:35,408
I'm not a cynic, I'm an optimist, because I think markets are way more powerful than

835
01:00:35,408 --> 01:00:41,061
the Sith Lords, like the resistance will win, especially when we have Bitcoin as

836
01:00:41,081 --> 01:00:45,681
the photon torpedoes headed for the core of the Death Star through the vents, you

837
01:00:45,681 --> 01:00:48,767
know, that's, no, I'm totally optimistic.

838
01:00:49,792 --> 01:00:50,652
In the long run.

839
01:00:51,101 --> 01:00:52,991
Yeah, me too, uh, for sure.

840
01:00:53,081 --> 01:00:59,341
And it's, uh, It's very easy to forget all the good shit in a

841
01:00:59,341 --> 01:01:03,271
world where the darkness rears its head so much as it does.

842
01:01:04,101 --> 01:01:09,961
But, you know, in lived and perceived freedom, we probably never ever were

843
01:01:09,961 --> 01:01:13,801
freer than right now to do shit.

844
01:01:13,971 --> 01:01:22,186
But, it's just this Every present knowledge that you are being tracked

845
01:01:22,266 --> 01:01:27,626
and data is being collected and yeah, you know, we're just like being

846
01:01:27,626 --> 01:01:32,996
watched is more the feeling, I guess that's changed, but we're still able

847
01:01:33,606 --> 01:01:39,236
to exercise a lot of freedom, uh, not least in terms of freedom of speech.

848
01:01:39,882 --> 01:01:41,132
And, uh, I think.

849
01:01:41,752 --> 01:01:49,562
A big task for everyone in the world right now is to not self censor, not over

850
01:01:49,602 --> 01:01:54,932
comply, so to say, because a lot of people are, they're just feeling the tendencies

851
01:01:55,002 --> 01:02:00,157
in the world and they just get very like apprehensive and maybe Don't speak fully

852
01:02:00,707 --> 01:02:08,125
out on certain topics and, uh, this, uh, the, uh, the, the self censorship and the

853
01:02:08,125 --> 01:02:11,005
chilling of free speech is a real thing.

854
01:02:11,125 --> 01:02:17,095
And we should, everyone should, you know, really try to speak as freely

855
01:02:17,095 --> 01:02:19,975
as they dare to on all these topics.

856
01:02:20,460 --> 01:02:23,370
Subjects that rule the world right now.

857
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:24,480
Yeah.

858
01:02:24,570 --> 01:02:24,860
Yeah.

859
01:02:24,870 --> 01:02:29,280
But fear, fear is a, is a powerful tool.

860
01:02:29,350 --> 01:02:34,100
I mean, there, there are certain religions in the world that people,

861
01:02:34,430 --> 01:02:39,250
including myself don't talk about because why would I want a threat?

862
01:02:39,940 --> 01:02:44,820
Like if I, if I spoke my mind on certain things, like, and, uh, by

863
01:02:44,820 --> 01:02:47,020
religions, I include statism by the way.

864
01:02:47,390 --> 01:02:55,090
So, so we are being, uh, I mean, of course, they're, these are powerful

865
01:02:55,110 --> 01:02:59,300
forces, but I totally agree with like, uh, and exercising your freedom of

866
01:02:59,300 --> 01:03:06,990
speech, uh, is extra ultra super duper important now that speech is property,

867
01:03:07,410 --> 01:03:10,610
like, which is, it never has been before, like the, the, when we have Bitcoin

868
01:03:11,100 --> 01:03:17,170
and speech is actually, uh, as close as it can get to tangible property.

869
01:03:17,580 --> 01:03:22,790
Then, then, uh, it becomes more, more important than ever to, to, uh, uphold

870
01:03:22,790 --> 01:03:26,900
those laws and to fight the battle because the, the fight for freedom never ends.

871
01:03:27,010 --> 01:03:33,885
Uh, people will always try to, uh, Try to intrude on your freedoms.

872
01:03:34,215 --> 01:03:37,085
That's just inevitable, the way I see it.

873
01:03:38,175 --> 01:03:41,385
It's like that Terry Pratchett quote, the problem with an open

874
01:03:41,385 --> 01:03:44,215
mind is that people will come along and try to put stuff in it.

875
01:03:44,775 --> 01:03:51,205
And so, so, yeah, you have to stay vigilant and, and, and, uh

876
01:03:51,625 --> 01:03:54,915
Actually, uh, and principled.

877
01:03:55,015 --> 01:03:59,925
I think it's, it's so uncommon that people are principled and, and uphold that they

878
01:03:59,925 --> 01:04:04,425
don't like, Oh, principles is something you can have, uh, if you're that kind

879
01:04:04,425 --> 01:04:10,995
of person, like, no, it's for everyone, like a society, a civilized society needs

880
01:04:11,025 --> 01:04:17,625
principled people who are willing to, to sacrifice short term stuff for integrity.

881
01:04:17,855 --> 01:04:20,835
And yeah, so we need heroes like you, Mr.

882
01:04:20,835 --> 01:04:21,215
Katz.

883
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:28,520
I saw a thing going on Twitter a couple of days ago, I don't remember or maybe

884
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:32,980
even didn't notice where it started, but this, uh, Like, the concept was

885
01:04:32,990 --> 01:04:37,750
that if your, if your price isn't your life, then you can be bought.

886
01:04:38,744 --> 01:04:46,916
and that's about, you know, if you don't own your integrity above the monetary

887
01:04:46,916 --> 01:04:49,446
price on it, then you don't own it at all.

888
01:04:49,446 --> 01:04:50,396
And then you can be bought.

889
01:04:50,436 --> 01:04:51,836
It's just about finding the price.

890
01:04:53,056 --> 01:04:56,306
But for some people, integrity trumps everything.

891
01:04:56,606 --> 01:05:01,246
And just because that's how they find purpose and meaning in the

892
01:05:01,246 --> 01:05:07,706
world, and that's how they And, like, personally, I can't think of

893
01:05:07,706 --> 01:05:13,665
any worse thing than not respecting myself or not, like, living up to what

894
01:05:13,665 --> 01:05:17,155
I demand from myself or from others.

895
01:05:17,235 --> 01:05:24,880
Uh, so, yeah, it's, uh, It's a very interesting topic, this whole thing of,

896
01:05:25,055 --> 01:05:25,755
It is.

897
01:05:26,250 --> 01:05:30,580
And it's like, to me, yeah, it's even worse than the un lubed

898
01:05:30,580 --> 01:05:34,220
version of the dildo consequence, right, regardless of the size.

899
01:05:36,580 --> 01:05:41,290
And it's very close to this notion that if you don't have the right to be left

900
01:05:41,290 --> 01:05:46,555
alone, if that's not the Something that you experience, then the only right

901
01:05:46,555 --> 01:05:48,415
you have left is the right to obey.

902
01:05:49,025 --> 01:05:50,435
There is no silver lining.

903
01:05:50,435 --> 01:05:52,145
Like either you're free or you're not.

904
01:05:52,865 --> 01:05:58,905
and you, you can apply a lot of rhetoric and mental gymnastics to this topic

905
01:05:58,905 --> 01:06:04,215
and people will make all kinds of excuses for themselves for compromising.

906
01:06:05,095 --> 01:06:09,105
But my experience and my philosophy on it is that once you start compromising,

907
01:06:09,105 --> 01:06:13,255
you might, it's just like step one on the full slide to corruption.

908
01:06:14,100 --> 01:06:17,340
But you just can't compromise on your integrity at all.

909
01:06:17,980 --> 01:06:19,350
That's like a binary thing.

910
01:06:20,250 --> 01:06:26,310
And I wanted to mention another thing that Rune Østgaard, author of Fraudcoin, a good

911
01:06:26,310 --> 01:06:31,525
friend of mine, he has been reflecting a lot of, you know, the Rune Østgaard.

912
01:06:32,045 --> 01:06:36,865
You know, the fight for freedom and, uh, and standing up for freedom.

913
01:06:36,865 --> 01:06:46,005
And he made the observation that, uh, the cost of freedom is reduced, uh, relative

914
01:06:46,055 --> 01:06:54,325
to how many people stand up and, uh, the more people who dare or manage to, to

915
01:06:54,325 --> 01:06:56,895
stand up and, and stand for something.

916
01:06:57,230 --> 01:07:03,470
That reduces the cost for each individual of doing so, but if you're alone in

917
01:07:03,470 --> 01:07:08,840
standing up, the cost will be severe and, uh, history, in history, it will

918
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:18,060
very often be death, but, uh, yeah, so, so like the decentralized, yeah,

919
01:07:18,290 --> 01:07:22,710
like, I think it, it fits very well to Bitcoin with our decentralized

920
01:07:22,710 --> 01:07:24,910
approach and, uh, all the nodes.

921
01:07:25,685 --> 01:07:32,365
That, uh, the, it's almost impossible to quell a movement with a lot of heads

922
01:07:32,445 --> 01:07:35,105
that stand up and, and fight, so to say.

923
01:07:35,381 --> 01:07:35,681
Yeah.

924
01:07:35,681 --> 01:07:41,671
And, and also, um, yeah, I mean we love Una here.

925
01:07:41,806 --> 01:07:44,311
Uh, uh, he is another hero.

926
01:07:44,991 --> 01:07:48,111
The, the, the thing I'd like to add to that is Metcal's Law.

927
01:07:48,516 --> 01:07:52,346
So the value of any communications network is the square of its number of

928
01:07:52,346 --> 01:07:59,596
users, so, which means that the, the, the value of the resistance is also

929
01:07:59,726 --> 01:08:05,216
squared by its number of users, so the cost is drastically reduced with each,

930
01:08:05,326 --> 01:08:10,031
uh, new person added, To, to the network.

931
01:08:10,571 --> 01:08:14,501
And that's why I think the tipping point of like any type of hyper

932
01:08:14,651 --> 01:08:17,561
colonization scenario is much lower.

933
01:08:17,561 --> 01:08:21,721
The, the threshold is much lower than we think it is because of the

934
01:08:21,721 --> 01:08:26,077
immense value, the, the immense power of, of METCO law and the

935
01:08:26,077 --> 01:08:27,847
people don't think in exponentials.

936
01:08:29,067 --> 01:08:29,437
Yeah.

937
01:08:30,387 --> 01:08:37,117
It's so important to try to be, or to not think that it doesn't matter, basically.

938
01:08:37,377 --> 01:08:40,277
I don't know, it doesn't matter if I, like, no one will

939
01:08:40,667 --> 01:08:42,187
notice or no one will care.

940
01:08:42,187 --> 01:08:46,547
I think, uh, if you can be an example for one other person,

941
01:08:46,547 --> 01:08:48,207
that's like fucking amazing.

942
01:08:48,407 --> 01:08:54,977
And, uh, we saw it during COVID how, at least here in Norway, a big part of

943
01:08:55,117 --> 01:09:00,567
the reason why people The reason they obeyed so much was because it was very

944
01:09:00,567 --> 01:09:02,357
hard for them to see anyone who didn't.

945
01:09:03,327 --> 01:09:10,527
Uh, and the moment, you know, someone of any significance dared to stand up

946
01:09:10,527 --> 01:09:17,157
and counter the narrative, it was The follow, the ripple effect was huge and I

947
01:09:17,157 --> 01:09:23,127
know in my own circle that a few people almost buckled for the pressure of getting

948
01:09:23,137 --> 01:09:27,267
vaccinated just because they didn't have anyone around them who didn't do it.

949
01:09:27,517 --> 01:09:30,847
But then when they spoke to someone who could argue for the other

950
01:09:30,847 --> 01:09:32,147
side, they were strengthened.

951
01:09:32,287 --> 01:09:35,517
Their resolve was strengthened so much and they were able to resist.

952
01:09:36,977 --> 01:09:37,367
Yeah.

953
01:09:37,427 --> 01:09:39,287
And, and also like when, when the.

954
01:09:40,392 --> 01:09:46,702
Almost all countries drop the curfew or the mask mandates and stuff within like

955
01:09:46,712 --> 01:09:49,332
three months, right, of one another.

956
01:09:49,927 --> 01:09:55,847
Because, uh, I, I traveled a lot during that era, and you see, so in one airport

957
01:09:55,857 --> 01:09:59,437
everyone was wearing a mask, and in the next no one was wearing a mask, so

958
01:09:59,437 --> 01:10:06,347
it's, it like made no sense, because these are airports, like, uh, so, uh,

959
01:10:06,387 --> 01:10:12,047
well, it makes no sense anyway, but, uh, uh, the, the thing I, it's like,

960
01:10:12,637 --> 01:10:18,797
When 5 percent of the people in the airport dared to not wear the mask,

961
01:10:19,267 --> 01:10:23,887
that's when everyone else just followed suit, and everyone dropped the mask.

962
01:10:24,217 --> 01:10:26,667
So the threshold is much lower than you think.

963
01:10:27,617 --> 01:10:29,297
Disobedience matters, people.

964
01:10:29,667 --> 01:10:30,267
Brush your teeth.

965
01:10:30,407 --> 01:10:30,617
Yes.

966
01:10:31,817 --> 01:10:32,357
Or don't.

967
01:10:33,108 --> 01:10:37,981
I remember during COVID I was, regularly the only fucking person in

968
01:10:37,991 --> 01:10:41,131
the mall without the mask and it did.

969
01:10:41,746 --> 01:10:45,756
It drains you a little bit over time, you know, because you get all this looks and

970
01:10:45,756 --> 01:10:53,076
comments and, uh, and friction, but just seeing that one other guy occasionally,

971
01:10:53,086 --> 01:10:59,746
you know, meeting his eye on like, yeah, uh, that was a huge motivating or boost

972
01:10:59,896 --> 01:11:05,846
for my resolve just to see that I hope at least I'm not completely alone that, uh,

973
01:11:06,436 --> 01:11:09,116
Yeah, I remember meeting you in the airport in Oslo.

974
01:11:09,394 --> 01:11:10,314
You remember that?

975
01:11:11,184 --> 01:11:13,284
Everyone looking at us for not wearing a mask?

976
01:11:14,355 --> 01:11:16,255
that was in the middle of this bullshit, right?

977
01:11:17,725 --> 01:11:18,505
Yeah, it was.

978
01:11:18,865 --> 01:11:26,975
And like, and like with everything else, like Bitcoiners weren't like, like, we

979
01:11:26,985 --> 01:11:31,095
were also just people, but the feeling I had from like following the Bitcoin

980
01:11:31,295 --> 01:11:34,955
community and the rest of the world is like, that we were ahead of the curve.

981
01:11:36,145 --> 01:11:40,195
Bitcoiners were scared of the virus before everyone else was and

982
01:11:40,205 --> 01:11:46,090
was not scared of the virus when everyone else was like, we're like.

983
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:48,810
Yeah, as I said, ahead of the curve.

984
01:11:48,830 --> 01:11:50,810
That's, that's the feeling I got from it.

985
01:11:51,482 --> 01:11:55,062
Yeah, like, uh, information asymmetry thing.

986
01:11:55,092 --> 01:12:01,612
Because I do feel that it's not just because we want to be contrarians.

987
01:12:02,252 --> 01:12:09,762
It is because we base our beliefs Not on propaganda or, or false,

988
01:12:10,012 --> 01:12:15,532
like things that are easily proven to be illogical or irrational.

989
01:12:16,482 --> 01:12:19,592
But we want to go, you know, to the data points and like make up

990
01:12:19,592 --> 01:12:26,100
our own mind, not just accepting predigested, uh, Opinions on things.

991
01:12:26,440 --> 01:12:28,890
So I think that's what's going on.

992
01:12:29,070 --> 01:12:32,220
On average, Bitcoiners are better critical thinkers.

993
01:12:33,016 --> 01:12:34,566
Yeah, yeah, I think so too.

994
01:12:34,576 --> 01:12:37,166
First, more first principles oriented.

995
01:12:37,706 --> 01:12:41,966
Where the base layer, like, you have the base layer and you have the base layer.

996
01:12:42,576 --> 01:12:47,767
Uh, yeah, well, was it Giacomo who said, like, if, if you do everything

997
01:12:48,237 --> 01:12:53,502
completely the opposite of what the government tells you to do, probably

998
01:12:53,502 --> 01:12:57,262
not right about everything but you're probably better off than if you

999
01:12:57,262 --> 01:13:00,253
followed everything they said like so

1000
01:13:00,383 --> 01:13:00,753
that's accurate.

1001
01:13:00,753 --> 01:13:05,473
I would say you're definitely better off instead of probably, but,

1002
01:13:05,957 --> 01:13:11,287
yeah yeah i i think he used the word definitely too and i agree to to that

1003
01:13:12,317 --> 01:13:16,537
No, but that's so interesting, like, flock mentality, and another thing I

1004
01:13:16,537 --> 01:13:22,167
found so interesting about the late stage COVID, uh, was that the rules

1005
01:13:22,337 --> 01:13:28,547
changed quicker and quicker the further down this horrible path we went, and it

1006
01:13:28,547 --> 01:13:34,267
became like a virtue signaling mechanism for obedient people to follow the new

1007
01:13:34,267 --> 01:13:40,867
rule every week, like, to adapt to the new fucking thing that they were, uh,

1008
01:13:41,567 --> 01:13:43,127
like, trying to shove down our throats.

1009
01:13:43,752 --> 01:13:48,252
Which is like the opposite of a bitcoiner, an obedience

1010
01:13:49,282 --> 01:13:56,622
was really like opening, opening a hole into the box of the dark side of

1011
01:13:56,742 --> 01:13:58,672
humanity, what was happening there.

1012
01:13:58,672 --> 01:14:05,812
And, uh, I'm sure it's not the last time in history, you know, uh, average man is

1013
01:14:05,812 --> 01:14:10,692
going to be weaponized by false narratives against people who want freedom.

1014
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:18,230
Because of that, it's always good to almost like Bitcoin's resistance growth by

1015
01:14:18,230 --> 01:14:22,400
every attack, I think to, to have freedom.

1016
01:14:22,405 --> 01:14:28,640
We need, we need attacks and we need attacks that fail to remind people

1017
01:14:29,287 --> 01:14:30,527
Yeah, I was just getting to that.

1018
01:14:30,527 --> 01:14:32,917
There might even be a question in here somewhere.

1019
01:14:35,137 --> 01:14:39,557
That's the thing, because on the whole Do you think this attack

1020
01:14:39,577 --> 01:14:41,927
was a net positive for humanity?

1021
01:14:42,317 --> 01:14:47,667
Because the things I saw, like, was, first of all, this video conferencing, uh,

1022
01:14:47,687 --> 01:14:51,257
became, instantly became bearably good.

1023
01:14:51,287 --> 01:14:57,507
Like, before COVID, it was sort of too clunky to For people to actually use it.

1024
01:14:57,517 --> 01:15:02,487
This is relatively new, being able to do this like, like without issues.

1025
01:15:03,417 --> 01:15:07,297
And I think COVID really propelled that, or the lockdowns did.

1026
01:15:07,704 --> 01:15:12,284
and the other thing is like, of course, a new generation of Bitcoiners were born.

1027
01:15:12,294 --> 01:15:16,314
The percentage of freedom lovers in the world is probably

1028
01:15:16,314 --> 01:15:17,944
bigger now than before COVID.

1029
01:15:18,376 --> 01:15:21,436
I think, so I think it's, uh, similar.

1030
01:15:21,466 --> 01:15:27,436
I think it's very relatable to Bitcoin and uh, because with Bitcoin, I think

1031
01:15:27,436 --> 01:15:31,341
it was extremely important that Bitcoin has been attacked the way it has.

1032
01:15:32,431 --> 01:15:37,081
All along its history, I think the block size war was extremely important.

1033
01:15:37,281 --> 01:15:44,171
I think the continued, you know, attacks, because resistance also needs to scale.

1034
01:15:44,171 --> 01:15:49,311
And if instead there had been the illusion of zero attacks, you got

1035
01:15:49,331 --> 01:15:54,761
like a complacent, uh, space of Bitcoiners who didn't anticipate

1036
01:15:54,801 --> 01:15:56,771
attacks that weren't used to attacks.

1037
01:15:56,771 --> 01:16:02,691
And suddenly you have like, let's say an extremely well funded attack with the.

1038
01:16:03,271 --> 01:16:09,228
With a Craig Wright that, uh, wasn't a clown, it could have been way worse.

1039
01:16:09,258 --> 01:16:15,588
And the same with, you know, the same with COVID, if, if certain parameters had

1040
01:16:15,588 --> 01:16:20,328
been different, or if, if COVID didn't never happen, then if they had an even

1041
01:16:20,338 --> 01:16:27,348
better and more thought through and, you know, finely executed version of such a

1042
01:16:27,348 --> 01:16:32,228
scare, I think they could just lock down the whole humankind into some perpetual.

1043
01:16:33,283 --> 01:16:33,373
Dystopia.

1044
01:16:34,343 --> 01:16:36,573
Uh, but that will be harder now because of COVID.

1045
01:16:37,048 --> 01:16:45,558
Yeah, and I heard the arguments for harder lockdowns, like, this was when I

1046
01:16:45,568 --> 01:16:49,508
stopped listening to Sam Harris forever, like, when he was totally pro that.

1047
01:16:51,338 --> 01:16:57,228
One of these arguments was, like, imagine if the virus was ten times as deadly.

1048
01:16:57,976 --> 01:17:01,136
then it would be ten times more important to have the lockdown policies.

1049
01:17:01,136 --> 01:17:02,816
But I completely disagree.

1050
01:17:03,036 --> 01:17:07,066
If the virus is ten times more deadly, people will take more

1051
01:17:07,066 --> 01:17:08,986
responsibility for their own actions.

1052
01:17:09,446 --> 01:17:11,216
Like, that's just inevitable.

1053
01:17:11,226 --> 01:17:14,856
Like, if it's actually dangerous, people won't go to the office.

1054
01:17:15,376 --> 01:17:16,296
Voluntarily.

1055
01:17:16,506 --> 01:17:18,496
So like, that makes no sense.

1056
01:17:19,109 --> 01:17:26,049
We can't, we can't, I mean, any thinking person that argues along those lines

1057
01:17:26,049 --> 01:17:31,939
to me is just like, I don't even understand it because the end road of

1058
01:17:31,939 --> 01:17:35,839
that type of logic is that we can't have freedoms because there will always

1059
01:17:35,849 --> 01:17:40,519
be threats and you can, there will always be risks associated with life.

1060
01:17:40,559 --> 01:17:44,949
But once you legitimize forcefully.

1061
01:17:45,544 --> 01:17:49,634
Restricting people's freedom over a narrative of risk.

1062
01:17:51,144 --> 01:17:54,154
It's game over because that's, that's a slide that you

1063
01:17:54,154 --> 01:17:56,394
don't, it never stops midway.

1064
01:17:56,554 --> 01:17:59,884
It stops at complete prison world.

1065
01:18:00,744 --> 01:18:06,294
And, uh, yeah, I think that that was also a good thing that more people

1066
01:18:06,304 --> 01:18:11,054
probably have made their observations and reflections on the dynamic

1067
01:18:11,094 --> 01:18:13,654
between freedom and, uh, and safety.

1068
01:18:14,594 --> 01:18:15,914
Yeah, absolutely.

1069
01:18:17,254 --> 01:18:21,104
I think that's the quote for the intro, by the way, that, that last little rant.

1070
01:18:21,470 --> 01:18:21,890
Could be.

1071
01:18:22,630 --> 01:18:23,340
Fantastic.

1072
01:18:23,891 --> 01:18:28,351
Well, uh, I think, I think maybe we're, uh, drawing to a

1073
01:18:28,381 --> 01:18:30,531
conclusion on this conversation.

1074
01:18:30,581 --> 01:18:36,426
Actually, actually, I think, I think our, our, um, friend, uh, And now

1075
01:18:36,446 --> 01:18:41,066
Collie, Peter Dunworth would be mad if I didn't ask you one last time a little

1076
01:18:41,066 --> 01:18:43,486
bit more about the Bitcoin Advisor.

1077
01:18:44,076 --> 01:18:47,036
Can you tell us a little bit more about why you got involved

1078
01:18:47,066 --> 01:18:51,406
with that and what goes on there?

1079
01:18:52,261 --> 01:18:52,671
Yeah.

1080
01:18:53,110 --> 01:18:59,935
I've always been very Cognizant and vocal about the importance of self custody.

1081
01:19:00,115 --> 01:19:06,400
And I think Not Your Keys, Not Your Coins is one of the Most important memes in

1082
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:14,386
Bitcoin, I think it's strange that today people still believe or many people still

1083
01:19:14,396 --> 01:19:21,416
believe they own Bitcoin by having them on an exchange or buying an ETF product.

1084
01:19:21,750 --> 01:19:24,740
in my opinion, they don't own those Bitcoins, obviously,

1085
01:19:24,750 --> 01:19:25,900
since they don't have the keys.

1086
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:33,150
So what the Bitcoin advisor does is, uh, help people who may not have the.

1087
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:41,550
The technical capacity to securely take self custody of their coins to help them

1088
01:19:41,550 --> 01:19:48,930
transition from an exchange, uh, into a solid self custody, which is done through

1089
01:19:49,820 --> 01:19:56,067
what we call collaborative custody, which is a multi sig solution, uh, with

1090
01:19:56,067 --> 01:20:01,287
no single point of failure while the client still retains full sovereignty.

1091
01:20:01,302 --> 01:20:02,843
Yeah,

1092
01:20:02,957 --> 01:20:04,287
Absolutely fantastic.

1093
01:20:04,317 --> 01:20:08,917
And so this is what you're doing these days.

1094
01:20:10,032 --> 01:20:13,962
Anything else you'd like to direct our listeners towards?

1095
01:20:13,962 --> 01:20:15,782
Where can they find you on the internet?

1096
01:20:15,782 --> 01:20:17,302
I think this one's pretty easy, actually.

1097
01:20:18,342 --> 01:20:25,962
I'm mostly on X under the hudlonaut handle, I guess that's where I do

1098
01:20:26,002 --> 01:20:30,602
all of my public facing opinionating and shit, all my shitposting.

1099
01:20:31,306 --> 01:20:37,246
We do run our magazine Citadel 21 still, we have two volumes left to print.

1100
01:20:38,046 --> 01:20:39,766
Volume 20 and volume 21.

1101
01:20:39,776 --> 01:20:47,216
So anyone wanting some very non compromising, legit Bitcoin

1102
01:20:47,216 --> 01:20:50,823
culture readings, go to citadel21.

1103
01:20:50,873 --> 01:20:57,453
com and read it for free online, or you can visit our shop and buy yourself a

1104
01:20:57,683 --> 01:21:00,173
copy of one or more of the editions.

1105
01:21:01,028 --> 01:21:05,615
They're all hand numbered and limited to a thousand copies each.

1106
01:21:06,303 --> 01:21:07,513
I think it's a cool brand.

1107
01:21:08,988 --> 01:21:12,338
There has been exactly 0 percent selling out on that project.

1108
01:21:12,568 --> 01:21:19,228
It's been like some type of a hard project for me and Katja.

1109
01:21:19,638 --> 01:21:23,558
So we haven't made any money on it, but we made a lot of friends

1110
01:21:23,768 --> 01:21:25,248
and a lot of cool magazines.

1111
01:21:25,644 --> 01:21:28,253
yeah, you definitely did, alright, Mr.

1112
01:21:28,253 --> 01:21:31,233
Cat, thank you very much for this conversation, we enjoyed it

1113
01:21:31,233 --> 01:21:35,253
immensely, and we hope you did too, and we hope our listeners did too.

1114
01:21:35,413 --> 01:21:39,868
This was a, uh, Slightly odd episode, but I loved it.

1115
01:21:40,038 --> 01:21:42,748
So take care, good luck with

1116
01:21:43,143 --> 01:21:44,663
Yeah, great to talk to you guys.

1117
01:21:44,663 --> 01:21:45,133
Talk soon.

1118
01:21:47,588 --> 01:21:48,288
Thanks again, Mr.

1119
01:21:48,288 --> 01:21:48,798
Captain.

1120
01:21:49,258 --> 01:21:52,588
This has been the Freedom Footprint Show and Knut has something else to say.

1121
01:21:52,964 --> 01:22:00,194
I do, uh, if you're trying to follow Hodlonaut on, on X or Twitter, make sure

1122
01:22:00,194 --> 01:22:05,247
you find the right one because you have more fake accounts running around than,

1123
01:22:05,307 --> 01:22:07,267
than, uh, Satoshi himself, I guess.

1124
01:22:07,813 --> 01:22:08,753
Yeah, it's fucked up.

1125
01:22:08,783 --> 01:22:12,033
I have no idea why they can't easily fix that issue, but

1126
01:22:12,163 --> 01:22:13,273
yeah, follow the right one.

1127
01:22:13,753 --> 01:22:16,233
H O D L O M A U T.

1128
01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:17,620
All right.

1129
01:22:17,740 --> 01:22:18,630
Fantastic.

1130
01:22:19,030 --> 01:22:22,360
Thank you again, Hodlenod, and this has been the Freedom Footprint Show.

1131
01:22:22,710 --> 01:22:23,520
Thanks for listening.

1132
01:22:24,155 --> 01:22:24,807
Thank you guys.