The proof of work
for the Beatles
was going to Hamburg
and playing
14 hours a day, and George
Harrison was 17
when they started doing that.
Like
he was super young
and they were
they were kids
just goofing around.
But over such a short
period of time,
like four movies
and 11 albums
and how many top
hits, it's just amazing.
I think you have to
set boundaries for yourself.
Otherwise, like,
you can drown in the
options you have.
It's what's so amazing
about the computer
era is that you have
all these options and, like,
you can do anything
with your life.
We're not forced to pick
one thing anymore.
So therefore,
no one gets super
good at this one thing
because they can always
choose the number.
With this,
I can go and do this instead.
Bjorn Borg
the same way you were
before the internet.
And I think
a lot of creativity
is born out of boredom.
I actually used to own
a bar in New York City.
We had the second
Bitcoin ATM,
in Manhattan at the time
that was on the Lower
East Side.
So been in Bitcoin
for a little while
and my biggest regret
is not working in bitcoin
full time
and starting back then.
But I'm making up for it now.
Most welcome to the
Bitcoin Infinity Show,
or rather
the Knudsen Home show.
Well, I guess
because Luke isn't here.
Unfortunately,
but welcome anyway.
Finally.
And it's good to be here
hanging out with you
on this show.
And Luke has to be
pissed, right?
Because we talked
about doing this
and Luke stopped here,
so we'll have to do it again
and make up for it.
Absolutely, absolutely.
I bet he won't want
wanted to have been here.
But yeah,
we we saw each other,
like, last week
and, did a rocket
motor show in San Salvador
and one in Colombia, too.
But let's not talk
too much about that one.
They turned out
the lights on you, Keanu.
They tried.
They tried to cut power,
which was perfect.
Now we'll be forever
remembered as rebels
in, soundtrack adore.
Because, of course,
the show must go on.
We refused to stop
when they told us to.
And, I absolutely love that.
It was
very much
in the spirit of rock n roll.
The whole the whole evening.
Yeah, the show must go on.
And in order for it to go
on, Canute
and I are walking to El
Salvador music stores,
trying
to, you know,
Google Translate our way
into negotiating
a Mexican Telecaster.
So, yeah, something to play.
It was absolutely beautiful.
So thank you very much
for that Telecaster
you'll get to,
to tell the story
about what happened
to that Telecaster real soon.
But first,
let's start things off.
Since you haven't
been on the show before,
as far as I can remember.
Let's, tell our audience
a bit about Mr. Mossman.
And who is he? Is who?
When he found Bitcoin
on what he does
and how the Rock Komodo thing
started and,
you know, everything else
you want to tell us?
Well, me,
my friends call me mas.
My name is Mike
Jarmusch's, and,
my company is Lightning
Ventures.
Lightning ventures
is our website.
We're
about to get a brand new one,
and we invest in Bitcoin
startups, Bitcoin companies,
early stage,
later stage,
we've probably invested
in about 45 or more, Bitcoin
only companies in the space
that, we all know and love.
So, we operate a little bit
differently where
we have a syndicate
where anyone can invest.
Right.
So if you wanted
to get started with
investing in early stage
Bitcoin startups
for like $1,000,
we're a great resource
and group
as well as jobs and talent
and all sorts
of other fun things.
And recently
a product
of Lightning
Ventures was Thunder
Thunder
that we just launched.
Thunder, thunder.com
is a regulation,
crowdfunding portal
where it's still equity.
This is not like donations
and Patreon,
but it really widens it
to where anyone literally
almost anyone,
can actually invest
in some of these.
So our first two
deals on there,
one is for jolts,
they just had some big news
in El Salvador
and of course
the orange pill app,
which I think Kanoute,
helps out with on that.
But yeah, so that's what
I'm up to
is Lightning Ventures
and, Thunder Thunder
when I found Bitcoin, well,
I should be worth
like $10 billion
because I was pretty early
in bitcoin.
But like all of us,
we didn't just,
go head in,
but it was somewhere around
that Max Keizer
$3 area,
that 2013 ish area
where it really started
paying,
a little bit of attention,
and getting going with it.
I actually used to own a bar
in New York City.
We had the second
Bitcoin ATM,
in Manhattan at the time.
That was on the Lower
East Side.
So, been in Bitcoin
for a little while,
and my biggest regret
is not working
in Bitcoin full time
and starting back then.
But I'm
making up for it now.
You certainly are.
And unlike this,
Lightning Ventures
and Thunder.
Thunder is super interesting.
And you're right,
I am, an advisor
for the orange pillar.
Like disclaimer here is so.
So how does that work?
How does the thunder
thunder thing work?
You said anyway,
anyone can invest.
You can just
shoot assets and become,
equity holder.
Is that how it works?
Yeah, well, it's not like a
no KYC
kind of peer to peer
deal, like,
this is a regulated space.
We have, a license and Finra
and all that good stuff.
But, investors,
pretty much
most anywhere in the world,
can sign up for Thunder.
Thunder
with very little friction.
And if they had
an opportunity to invest
in the orange pill app,
they could invest
maybe $100 minimum,
and that would be equity.
That would be the same
kind of terms as the suits
and all the
the big investors
that were coming into
these rounds
were kind of a pleb
investment platform
or a way for the plebs
to get started.
Also,
if you're a Bitcoin startup
or company
looking to raise money,
you should reach out,
fill out the form
on the website.
Not only that,
but maybe even something
like podcasters
or media things.
Maybe,
maybe canoed, with,
you know, everything divided
and the Infinity
Show wanted to do,
do a raise or something.
We're looking for creative,
things like that to.
Yeah, that definitely
sounds like something worth
looking into a little deeper.
And, I'm
sorry I haven't done that
yet, but, as you know,
I've been I've been busy,
and so have you. The.
And we've been busy together
with these rock Komodo shows.
So what's, like the,
the story there.
So we tell,
tell the people
about how that whole thing
started, what it is and like.
Yeah.
Can can you give us
your version of what,
Satoshi Nakamoto is
and how he came to be?
Okay, but you know what?
You got to interrupt me
or stop me if you want to,
add some details. Okay?
I, I am the great
interrupter, and,
yeah,
Lou can tell you
all about that.
My interruptions.
So don't worry about that.
Well, for anyone who knows
ugly old goat,
you know, that's the.
He's a real interesting guy.
And he is an
amazing human being,
for sure.
But ugly old goat was doing
a conference in Mexico, and,
I had never met Kanoute.
But Kanoute was invited
and came down there,
and I was there with honor.
And when we got to
the conference,
it was beautiful,
the venue was beautiful
and, you know, went all out.
He had like busts and statues
on the stage of like,
Saifuddin
and all these things.
And, you know,
really went out.
And it turns out
that basically everyone
in the audience
at the conference
was a speaker.
So you had this big,
beautiful room
and it looked good.
The lights were great,
everything was great.
And there was probably 38
people here,
and 33 of
those people were on stage.
So, it was
it was a fun,
interesting event.
And that's
where I met Kanoute.
Because I used to
always carry
around a chess set.
I haven't brought it
to the last
few Bitcoin conferences,
but I would love to bring,
and do these Bitcoin blitz
sort of chess
tournaments for SATs
and all that
kind of fun stuff.
And I had a chess
set in Mexico.
And Canutt can really play.
He could really play.
So our first bond
was really over
some blitz chess,
late at night
and, on our
first few days there.
Yeah, I think your
first words to me
was,
may I
interest you
in an adult beverage?
And then we had a couple
of drinks
and played some chess.
You know,
and, to add to this, this
was this was, like,
late stage lockdown bullshit.
I refuse to call it
late stage Covid
because I prefer to call it
late stage lockdown bullshit.
And,
so I think that's,
that played a huge part
in why,
why there weren't
many attendees at the,
at the event.
I would say there were,
a few more guests
than maybe five, but but,
maybe an equal amount.
Yeah. Yeah.
To to to, to not bash
ugly too much here.
I mean, it wasn't his fault
to begin with,
but there were about
an equal amount of guests,
and, and speakers,
I think something like
maybe a bit fewer
guests, but,
but we had a great time,
and he was such a sweet guy,
and he,
treated us to all sorts
of, luxurious things and
various,
things.
And we
we ended up,
driving little buggies,
in, beach buggy
bikes, slash cars.
More cars than bikes,
at a place called
Horse Power Ranch.
So, I'll let you take it
from here.
Well, no,
I just wanted to add that.
Okay,
so the horse power ranch,
these were not just,
like, little buggy
things, okay? These were not.
This was not the kids thing.
You know, when you go
to, like, a tourist place
and you want to ride horses,
but you can tell
this isn't like
the real horse riding place,
or you want to
drive a fast car
and they,
you know, it's
like kind of like a joke
for tourists.
This was not that
these vehicles
were freakin Siri
s, man, okay?
And there were no guardrails,
okay?
You were literally
you were no guardrails.
This was completely off road.
It was insane.
And it was actually
very dangerous
thinking about it. Okay.
And the lady from the hotel,
as I'm getting ready
to take off,
there's dust everywhere.
You have to wear a mask.
It was the only time
that you wanted
to wear a mask
during the mask era of Covid,
because there was so much
to us.
The lady from the hotel
comes up to me
as I'm about to leave
in this car.
I'm actually with one gal
and she looks at me
and she says,
you know,
we don't have insurance,
right?
That's literally
what she said.
She's like an old Mexican
lady, like,
I don't
she wasn't making a joke
like she was being
completely serious.
And I don't know why
she just said that to me,
but that was
really dangerous.
But that was also really fun.
Yeah,
I shared rooms
with a guy called Victor,
I think,
and he is a, a Mexican guy.
And and at this
horse power ranch,
we found a black widow. So.
But he was trying to cook,
and I'm like,
Holy shit,
that thing didn't kill you.
And he's trying
to call me down.
And they said, like,
don't worry,
man, don't worry.
Everything in Mexico
want to kill you.
Just you just have to relax.
And I can't say
I was more
relaxed after that.
So we're at this horse
power ranch,
and they set up,
kind of a little, show.
Right?
That was part of the thing
where with, dinner
and there was outdoor,
very small little patio area
with, high quality
gear and, a cover band,
and,
my history of managing bands
and, you know,
doing my thing with music,
I couldn't help
because the pieces
were coming together.
Gabe, from Tampa.
Gabe is an amazing drummer.
He can easily.
He's the guy,
the cover band guy
that's been playing
for 40 years straight.
He can literally play
any song.
But he can also
play guitar and bass,
and he's just he's
that guy, right?
And I've always known
that about Gabe.
So Gabe keyboards, right?
He played keyboards, right?
Yeah.
Gabe can play
a little bit of everything.
He is. He is an all star.
And then through
the conversation
of getting to know, Lex,
you know, Bitcoin mechanic,
I had no idea that
he used to actually play
with Donna Summer.
He was a studio musician
and that he is an absolute
all star on bass and keys.
He's he's just a ripper.
He is so good.
Yeah.
So, you
know, finding that out
and then,
you know,
I've known Giacomo and
and Mia
for years,
and I didn't know
that she was
a professional vocal coach.
I didn't know that, like,
that was a part of her thing.
So it's like,
slowly coming together
here,
and I kind of arrange it.
So I say to the cover band,
because who wants to hear
a cover band? Right?
It's a Mexican cover, man.
We didn't know
they were going
to be excellent.
They okay.
We didn't know
what was about to happen,
but it was kind of like,
hey, listen,
you know, it's just us here
for this party.
You know, I've got some
some Bitcoiners here.
We want to have a
little bit of fun.
Do you think we can just
use your gear
and kind of play
and have some fun?
And they said,
absolutely not.
They were
offended because
they really wanted to play,
for you guys.
And then they
started playing,
and they were incredible,
just calling out a song
and they played it,
and that was great.
And then they took a break.
They took a break
and they said,
hey, if you guys want to,
have a little bit of fun
for a little while,
go for it.
And that's
when the first,
the first band assembled.
That's when I found out
I didn't even know
Knute could play
at this time.
Can you just picked up
the guitar
and all of a sudden
I was just screaming,
he's a shredder.
I wouldn't know about that.
But,
we were all surprised that
and that it sounded
not not shit
when we picked
up the instruments.
And this is how the
Satoshi Nakamoto
thing was born, I guess.
You know, it's kind of cool.
Like,
the Bitcoiners
are such a unique
and individual
and awesome people
is that you
don't really
have to tell them what to do.
Like, that's what I love.
With the chess set,
I would bring 4
or 5 chess sets
to a Bitcoin conference.
Just put them out
and the rest happens,
you know what I mean?
And that's kind of
was the original idea
with the rock motors.
Although it's changed
recently.
We're going to
have to have a rock
mono board meeting soon.
But you know,
if you just have
the gear there
and then kind of see
what happens, right?
Because you've
got amazing people
that all can,
can do
a lot of different things.
And then we found out
some other people
that could play that night.
Was it Robert,
was it Robert?
The name of,
one of the guitar players,
I think,
I can't remember
if, who else,
but we had Satoshi.
You sound I don't remember.
His name is Robert. Yeah.
It's Robert.
Yeah, he played the drums
and he's he's like that
awesome drummer,
and he's like, So good.
And he,
he showed up for for
Prague last year, right?
And he played on a
handful of songs there,
including,
Seven Nation Army.
And there's a video from that
and I can tell like this,
the oh, my God,
the drums are so good here.
And I noticed afterwards,
like, Yeah,
it's it's Robert, it's
no wonder
because he's
got such
a amazing feel for it.
Yeah.
And that was kind of the,
the Genesis block there.
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Back to the show.
And so,
so, so when was the next rock
I like?
It wasn't called the rock.
I'm older then, but.
But you were
certainly in charge
and telling everyone
that you need
to go up on stage now.
So, so so when was the
when was the first real one?
Was that,
it was actually Miami.
And yes, I'm
well aware that
I am a pain in the ass.
That is for sure.
In a good way.
In a good way. Working on it.
So, so, yeah.
So we did
one in, Miami at, one,
I can't remember what year.
Conference.
I had the flier, though.
It was actually pretty cool.
And it was a
small little room.
It was a Lightning
Ventures party.
It was free.
It was packed, and,
we had it.
We had a pretty good time
there, but
Kanoute was not there. Wait.
I was like, yeah, yeah,
I just went with it.
Yeah,
I came directly
from the airport,
so I took an Uber
straight to the venue
because it had
the show had already started,
and I remember
meeting you on the street
the like, don't
you need to come up on stage
and play bass immediately
like we have no bass player.
So, so I
hop on the stage and like,
but what about my luggage?
And I leave it on the
on the sidewalk
and the and you're like,
I'll take care
of your luggage.
Don't worry about it.
You'll have to get on stage
and I hope and
and I play bass
for, 45 minutes
and I come back out again
and there's my luggage
still on the street.
But.
But it was still there, so.
No, no worries.
Yeah.
And yeah,
that was a cool venue.
It's,
it was narrow and tiny, but
but it absolutely.
Yeah,
there was a special event to.
I have so many fond
memories of these,
these occasions.
Yeah. There you go.
So.
So, yeah, that was a
that was a little one
that's actually Seven
Nation Army, I think.
Yeah.
Is that the same?
Oh yeah.
That was that.
So that was
I think that was
the first one.
Oh.
Was, was that
was that night there.
But I, I forgot
and you know what
I couldn't find, the flier
I went
and I tried to
bookmark the other day
a lot of those, rock motos,
anything I could find on
Twitter for,
you know, the Bitcoin
national Museum.
One day,
is going to want a section
of the, of the place
for this.
But, yeah,
that was a fun one.
And it was super small.
And, you know,
we had some surprises,
I don't know,
do you remember that guy
from ibex
who came up and sang La Bamba
and everyone?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, that was great.
I wouldn't
know about
everyone playing it
perfectly, but
I don't think we ever played
anything perfectly on a rock.
I'm older,
but that's part of the charm.
This is the thing.
And that's what, like,
It's it's
so it's like
creating something
out of the chaos, like,
it's a very
spontaneous thing.
There are a couple of key
things that need to happen.
A couple of key players
there and there.
But we we often we we,
we try to make it work,
and sometimes it does,
sometimes not so much.
But but it's right.
It's a trial and error
thing, isn't it?
Yeah.
Just like any band,
you know, you start out,
you start out somewhere
and then all of a sudden
there starts to be
some issues.
You know, there
starts to be some issues.
So,
no, it's been a lot of fun
and we've done so many.
I mean,
just off the top of my head,
I mean, Miami to Prague
one.
Riga.
One San Salvador.
Before.
Before this one. Right.
So Tucson, Salvador's
two San Salvador's,
we've been doing them
in Amsterdam.
No, we we tried to,
but we couldn't get a venue
in Amsterdam. Right. Yeah.
But that's been,
they've been a few with us
in Colombia a lot.
Yeah, if you count that one.
Yeah.
That was,
that was not the best, but,
that's all right.
But yeah, I got
I can't even think
of them, but, but,
yeah, it's been fun, and it's
definitely a fun
little side event.
And,
hopefully we can continue.
Continue doing.
Yeah.
Well, I love those fliers.
By the way,
the posters you make, like,
you take, like, a picture
from an old horror movie
or something, and you,
I mean, they look perfect.
They they look
so, you know,
I was a concert promoter.
We did.
We did
35 concerts a month, okay,
in Phoenix,
Tucson and Albuquerque.
And we cranked out fliers.
We cranked out
some of the best fliers.
And,
you know, that's
kind of
like the old hacky trick,
you know, late 90s,
early 2000, you know,
when we were
when you're doing that,
you know,
you can find a B movie poster
or something cool
and you can
get rid of the text.
And then, of course,
you know,
it's all about fonts
and you can
you can make some
really fun stuff.
I mean, I
don't have the archive
like in front of me
from all of our
concerts, but,
you know, from,
from all the punk rock bands.
And I'm not talking
about those
like British,
like crass
in those type of punk
rock bands,
you know, Dead Kennedys
not not that style,
but like the really cool,
you know,
we had some really awesome
fliers, you know,
I used to love that.
And you ever,
you know,
you could do a small screen
printing run,
you know,
where you get a number.
You know, I'm
sure that you've got some,
like, Melvins and Sonic Youth
screen printed posters
or something
that you bought over
the years.
Yeah, yeah, I,
I tend to throw away
old, old stuff like that.
And then
sometimes I regret that,
but I had like
I saw Pantera in 96
and I had a Dimebag pick,
you know, that said
Far Beyond Drunk,
but I lost it, unfortunately.
So like, oh,
I tend to lose stuff.
You see,
you're the opposite of me.
I'm a packrat.
I can't throw anything away.
I still have a, concert
stub from seeing Weezer.
In 1996
on the Pinkerton tour
at the Electric Ballroom
in Tempe, Arizona.
How can I throw that away?
Cannot, I don't know, like.
And, yeah, I'm too,
I guess I my,
like, my minimalist,
lifestyle took over
for a while,
and I threw, like,
I remember throwing
all my CDs
away, for instance,
I just thought, like,
these are going
to deteriorate.
Most of them are just
skipping a track
here and there,
and they don't work,
and they have a limited
lifespan. Right. So.
Well, well, fuck it.
I'm just throwing
in them all away
and then no more
hassle with them.
So I threw away,
like, 200 CDs.
Just dumped them all.
Good riddance.
I don't need this anymore.
Yeah, I mean, with the media
and stuff
like that with paying
$10 a month, you know,
and having literally
everything
that you would want,
you know, you'll own
nothing and be happy now.
And really then it comes down
to the vinyl records
or the things
that you really collect,
you know. Yeah.
Which is much smaller.
So I'm trying to be like,
you can noone, I'm
trying to throw away
things that,
you know what I mean?
So I went through this
big cleanse
like two weeks ago with Anna,
and I'm like, you know what?
Why do we have
all these clothes, stuff
that we never wear?
So I'm like,
let's just throw it away.
And I. And I'm like a Taurus.
So I go crazy.
I'm like,
let's throw it away.
I'm like, throw everything
away, throw everything away.
And I'm like, you know what?
I only need
seven pairs of underwear,
for crying out loud.
Like, do what?
Does anyone need
more than seven pairs
of boxer shorts.
So I just threw
everything out.
And guess what?
I don't know
what the hell happened,
but I haven't had.
I haven't worn underwear
in like the past three days
because I don't have any on.
It's like,
what are you doing?
I'm like,
I don't know where the hell
did all the underwear go?
That's a true story.
Seven boxers, the army.
Yes.
All right.
So, so.
Well, I mean, we have.
Oh, you talked about
we saw 96.
I talk about Pantera 9 to 6.
I mean, we're
of a similar age.
We're old fucks,
even though we don't admit
we are. So.
So I think we have a lot
of similar,
like, musical influences
and stories
about music and, and,
what kind of bands we like.
So.
But you want to get
into that a bit,
like what's your favorite,
your top five
bands in the world
or something like that?
Okay.
Well, a couple of things.
And in.
Yeah, that's great. Right.
The question is like,
if you're on a desert island
and you can only
have three artists,
but you get their
entire catalog right forever,
that's
that makes a difference,
you know,
and you have a
limited catalog.
Okay.
So, you know, that's great.
But, you know,
you growing up,
you you probably didn't
have the opportunity
to see as many touring bands.
I mean,
I grew up in
Phoenix, Arizona,
so, you know, it wasn't
the it was still maybe a top
ten largest city in the US.
We had concerts, but like,
did you have
many opportunities?
Like, where did you go
when you wanted to see.
No.
Like,
middle of nowhere Sweden.
There was like no, no
big international acts
to see if you didn't
go to Gotham Berg,
which was like a two hour
drive away,
or that
and there were
some big concerts there.
Every once in a while.
I mean, I saw Pink
Floyd there
when I was around 20,
so I think that's
the first big one
I went to there.
And then of course,
there were these,
summer festivals,
in Sweden and Denmark
that you could go to.
So the Roskilde is the,
the obviously the big one.
In Denmark,
the, the other one
when I grew up
was called Huddersfield.
And it's a small town
as a kind of a legendary
rock festival
in the middle of small.
And I think it's been,
as a long time ago now.
Now, now they have the Sweden
rock festival
instead or something. But,
that there was a couple of
years
when I enjoyed festivals
and then
I guess I got
too old for them
living in a tent
and, you know,
walking in piss all day.
It's might not be like,
you get too comfortable
after what it's like. Guess.
But but I had a lot of fun
back then, and my,
late teens and early 20s,
seeing a lot of bands.
Yeah, well, I'm definite.
I'm definitely curious
about that pink Floyd show.
I mean,
that was a bucket list
that I, I was never able
to, to do that one there.
And, you know,
Europe always does
the festivals, right?
Like, I didn't know
how Europe did it,
but that's like,
that was the word, you know,
that was what
we had always heard.
And I did a European tour,
with a band.
And there were
a few festivals,
rock and merengue,
rock and park, these
sort of like things, though.
So we went to them
for the first time.
And the Europe festival game,
compared to
what us was doing,
was like, no comparison.
No.
But on the other hand,
like being a touring band in
the US must have been better.
Unlike
in Europe with the
we didn't have like
especially not
in Scandinavia.
There was no like
pop band culture,
like, like that's,
when I grew up
that's like very dead.
That was a very dead scene.
Like,
I guess there was a
bigger music scene
in the 60s in Sweden,
and also maybe
a bit of revival after,
after I grew up.
But when I grew up,
there's like nothing there.
It was a very, very did.
So over the past 50 years,
what has come out of Sweden?
Well, a lot,
and, and
there was that like,
this is to say, they weren't,
there wasn't a living,
like, pop music
scene or music clubs
or anything that.
But what there
was, was, like, underground
bands and people
rehearsing
to become something
that was all over the place.
There were,
trillium bands in Sweden and,
a very common,
when I grew up,
everyone was in a fucking
band, and we,
we had our own,
rehearsal rooms,
and there was a,
you know,
the basement
of an entire school,
was full of rehearsal rooms
for different,
different bands
and, a lot of activities
like that.
Some of it like,
state
sponsored or months
of reality sponsored.
There was a lot of money
going into culture projects.
So a lot of tax money
went into like helping
these upcoming bands, to,
to do, to rehearse.
Most, most of us
never got anywhere,
of course.
But but there,
there has been,
a lot of like
Sweden is a big music
exporter in, comparison to
many other countries,
of course, ABBA.
But, like in the 90s,
Max Martin,
produced
the Britney
Spears and Backstreet
Boys and all sorts of,
you know,
boy bands and girl bands
and had a lot of,
top ten hits everywhere.
And,
The Cardigans
was a big thing for us.
Yeah, right about that.
So there have been many,
nowadays,
like the bands like ghost
are pretty big, like.
And I have
that there are a lot of like,
genre band.
So like,
the closest big city
to where I grew up was Gotham
burg and Gotham burg
in the late
90s, early 2000
had its own sound.
There was like the Gotham
burg sound,
and there were,
metal bands, In Flames
and Soil
Work and,
Dark Tranquility
and whatever they called,
that
that was a whole
subgenre in itself.
I never really liked it
that much,
but it was definitely
a thing.
What I like was a, a band
that started.
That's still my favorite band
to this day, by the way,
a band from the,
Norway up north
in Sweden called Meshuggah.
It's really complicated,
like mass metal band
that has been
at it since the 90s,
and they're just
killer, complicated stuff.
But but I absolutely love it.
And there was a
bunch of punk bands.
Refused, for instance,
made a killer record.
Youth was so hot,
the shape of punk
took a come.
The hell yeah.
I can't believe that
we're talking about refuse
right now.
That that was
there was a time
when that just came out.
Yeah, I would
that was a huge deal.
The the hives,
they're still
big in the US, right?
They have yeah.
I had quite a quite
an American,
quite an
international career,
especially in the US.
No, there's a ton of bands.
I'm only
mentioning a few here,
but there's there's so much.
It's so, you know,
when I think of Sweden
and when I think of that,
I always think of the metal,
right?
I can't help but think of,
like, the Swedish metal.
Now, all of those bands
that you named
Dark Tranquility in Flames,
we booked all those bands.
I think
every single
one of those bands,
when they would come
to Phoenix, Arizona,
you know,
they would play the 300
cap room.
Okay,
The haunted was another one.
Yeah.
The haunted.
So, you know,
I didn't like that music,
but we booked everything,
right? We worked.
We booked the stuff
you like,
and then you booked the stuff
you don't like, right?
And they would still do,
you know, 150 people.
But when I think of Sweden,
I always think of that
kind of metal.
So I just imagine that
they must have like
that, that metal culture,
you know. Yeah.
You don't have that here.
You know, you don't go to any
you know, it's
no scandal in Scandinavia
in general.
It's like very metal dense.
Like I think Finland
has the highest metal band
per capita in the world.
There's like every
there's a metal band in every
basement, basically.
And don't forget like,
Sweden had a like
it wasn't only like,
harder metal,
like, in the 80s.
I grew up with
the success of Europe
and Joey Tempest's like the,
you know, you know,
the final countdown
was a big international hits.
That's a Swedish band, too.
And, in the in
their footsteps were bands
like the Helicopters,
for instance,
which had a singer
that used to play the drums
and a
fantastic death metal rock
band called entombed,
if you know about them.
But yeah,
that's that's a lot there.
So, I mean,
I, I'm just really curious
and we'll have to
talk about this
another time, but like,
did you ever used to listen
to, like, at the drive in
or some of those,
like us, sort of smaller punk
rock bands on like indie
labels, like,
were you into like
the Fat Records? Kind of like
stuff I,
I, I, I've
heard at the Drive-In,
but I would say like,
you have to rewind the clock
a bit like,
more like Melvins,
or like,
the more frontier acts
from the grunge scene.
More more like that kind of,
stuff,
in terms of smaller
American bands.
So that I like
I like the lot like,
I like the grunge bands
a lot.
I especially a Soundgarden
and,
Nirvana and Alice in Chains.
Like,
I just loved
all all three of those bands
and, and and I like the,
the thrash
metal bands too, like,
I loved
Metallica and Slayer
and, Pantera
and all of that stuff,
really into that.
And I still listen to it
to this day,
and I'm
still finding new stuff
that I haven't heard
before, like,
especially in
the metal genres,
I guess, like,
I, I listen to Megadeth a lot
these days and,
and Exodus
and stuff like that.
I just love it.
It's,
still close to my heart.
Okay, so,
man, there's so
many things we
talk about here.
I mean, okay, but like,
you know,
at least for me,
and I know,
I know a lot of people
like your music sort of core.
Where you start
really comes from,
like, your father,
you a lot in a lot of ways.
Like,
what did you listen
to in the house?
What did your parents
listen to?
You know,
my dad was like
the classic rock guy.
You know,
we were talking about
the Beatles earlier
and how the hell
they recorded that shit
with eight tracks.
But,
you know, like,
so you're you're
parents, like,
what did they listen to
when you were a kid,
or did
they not listen to music
and you just kind
of discovered it on your own?
Oh, I, I grew up with music.
Definitely.
And my father played
the guitar.
And,
we have a long history
of music in my family.
My my great
great grandfather.
No, my great
grandfather's brother
was a famous opera
singer, a tenor. What?
He sang Wagner.
So, so Wagner operas.
And, so so so, my parents,
or especially my father.
I guess my mother wasn't
that interested in music,
but my father had a,
a huge music interest,
and he listened to a lot of
classic music,
classical music,
and operas and stuff.
But also, the Beatles and
and other stuff
from, from that era.
So I
definitely grew up with,
with a lot of
different music,
maybe not alike.
I guess my father's interest
in popular music,
sort of ended
when the 60s ended
and he wasn't really
following, like,
he was never into Zeppelin
or Sabotage
or anything like that.
So I had to discover
that on my own.
But that was like the town.
The small town I grew up
in was a huge music town.
Like, music
was the thing, like,
everyone was into,
or everyone
I hung out with in my
teens, like, really
identified with
whatever music
they listened to.
And there was the,
even earlier than that,
there was this feud
between the
synth, fans and the, heavy
metal fans, like,
there was a feud
going on those.
So, so yeah, that's
that's my musical background.
And, I'm like,
well,
whatever
I found in my late
teens, it's
it's still close to my heart.
How about you?
What what bands
did you grow up with?
What did you listen to
other than what
your father
already listened to?
I mean, you know what?
What came out?
I mean, Weezer
was big, right?
When the Blue Album came out,
that was a big deal.
Or like Green Day Dookie.
You know, when Green Day
Dookie came out,
that was kind of like
a way to really discover
another world,
because I, I really didn't,
you know, pop punk.
I don't know where the
the Ramones, pop punk,
you know, the misfits,
pop punk. I don't know.
But you know, that
that kind of started
that Green Day.
I think that
that really did it
for a lot of people
around that time,
because then all of a sudden
you discover,
look out records,
you discover, like,
what's operation Ivy?
And then all of a sudden
you start going in deeper,
I think in,
in the circles I was in,
it was kind of embarrassing
to like, Green Day or or,
What was the other band
you said there?
But like blink one, 82
or anything or even Weezer,
it was kind of like,
you weren't
one of the cool kids.
If you're listen
to this kind of,
radio schlock thing,
you were supposed to be
more metal,
more like, with
a mopey, grown,
grunge people
that that
wanted to kill themselves
and stuff
that was way cooler
when you were more
a more deep
and interesting person,
if you did, I guess.
But,
but like so in hindsight, I,
I always loved that stuff.
And Duke is a great album.
Right.
And and, the Blue
Album, the Weezer,
you know,
if you want to destroy
my sweater, like,
grab a string as I walk away.
It's it's a fucking
brilliant song.
I just love Weezer.
Always have,
but like that transition
that gets you away
from kind of like,
what your father's listening,
and you're at that,
like, point in your life,
you know, those formidable.
Like what?
You know, something like that
that comes out,
that gives you the taste
because then, you know,
you discover everything else.
That might not be
the commercial success,
right?
Somebody who was
a little later
when maybe they, you know,
discovered, no doubt,
you know,
actually found real ska,
you know, and like, you know,
but like I was 15
and I had an opportunity
to work the concessions
booth at Lollapalooza in 96.
Maybe I was 14.
So I had never
really went in.
I had no idea
what was going on.
So I did it,
and I was working.
And, you know,
I took a break
and I went out
and like, rancid came on
and that I had never heard
of ranch.
I had no idea what it was.
And it just, like,
kicked a hole in my
soul.
I was like, what is this?
This is the greatest thing
I've ever seen.
Yeah.
If, speaking of Lollapalooza
96, I have to ask,
did you see Primus?
I think they were
in the prime back then.
See, I knew that you were.
I know that you have to be
somebody who loves
Primus, but, man,
I just can't get into it.
You know?
I absolutely adore Primus.
And they were
in the top Billboard
top ten
with an Al album
called Pork Soda.
Like, it's.
No, they're fucking amazing.
And I just love
the guy is such a
such an odd character
and such an amazing musician.
I just adore Primus.
Yeah.
And everything they've done.
See where it where a lot of,
like, the metal heads,
because I, I'm not,
like, a death metal person,
you know,
but there's always like,
that middle ground
where you can come together.
So somebody who loves metal,
they're a metalhead.
Like,
we can both come together
on Zeppelin,
you know,
we can both come together
on maybe God, you know,
come together like.
Hello there.
I'm Kurt Swann home,
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I have a
handful of albums
in my teens
that that
just changed my life.
And one of them is appetite
for destruction
is a which
I still to this day
think is one of the
most brilliant albums
ever made.
Like it's very hard to top.
Slash was fucking 18
when he played
those guitar licks
like it's it
absolutely blows
my mind that they managed to
just, you know,
stay sober enough to
to record
that thing for, for,
for the duration
of the session.
It's just
it's just a brilliant.
If they were sober,
I don't care.
It's a it's,
it's probably not.
It's a brilliant,
debut album
and never mind,
of course, came out
like just a couple
of years later,
which was also like
it changed the game
completely, like,
all of a sudden
no one was listening
to hip hop anymore
because like
a couple of years
before that N.W.A happened,
then everyone's like,
what is this
cool new music genre?
And then never mind happened
and no one was listening
to that anymore.
And
what's another album?
Yeah.
For me, Soundgarden
Super Unknown was like
next level shit.
I had never heard anything
like it was so well-produced
and so such,
such simple yet,
intelligent
songs,
often
in odd
time signatures and stuff
and, still very sing along
and like, that was,
to me, that's a
perfect album to like,
Then of course,
when I
discovered Pink
Floyd and the,
you know, Dark
Side of the moon and the wall
and all of this stuff,
that was also,
I remember
first time I saw the
The Wall, the
the movie, The Wall,
I think it was 16 and,
I was in France
at a friend's house
or a friend,
what became a friend
there was my
my parents were friends
with his parents,
and they wanted me
to see friends.
For what? So? So.
And that's
where I saw the wall.
And it's like,
mind blowing to me that,
the music and,
the way that story was told
is completely different
from everything else
I'd seen before.
It, super depressing,
but super good, like,
so, yeah,
it is depressing.
It's not an
uplifting, fun movie.
But it's so good, though.
You know, when you
if I think about, like,
if you pick people
that have had
the most insane, amazing life
where you could
if you could just experience
what they've gone through.
Axl Rose has to be nuts
because, you know,
your priest, sort of.
All of the world
that we're living in
right now. Okay.
And just to be at that level
of like,
height and fame in an analog
sort of world
right before the cellphones
and people
actually had attention spans
and just the groupies
and the sheer size of, like,
the magnitude
of what they lived like that
that had been like,
if you could pop the cassette
tape in and be like,
let me try that for a year.
That had to have
been just nuts.
Yeah.
I think
both of our lives are are,
like in comparison
to your average Joe,
our lives are
super interesting.
And like, life
after Bitcoin
has given me so much
that I never expected
from life.
And it's yours,
but it's still pales
in comparison
to someone like Axl Rose.
Of course.
But but yeah, you know,
you shouldn't complain.
I guess.
Yeah.
I mean, the level of fame.
So one time, you know,
they had this thing on tour,
they call it a rock doc,
okay?
And a rock doc
is basically a doctor
or a nurse practitioner.
That's specializes in
bands or singers,
or they'll come to the venue.
So, you know,
we had a singer
who wasn't feeling well.
And basically there's
a shot of like,
this magic B12
fix everything in the world
that's wrong with you.
And I ordered this rock doc,
that came to the show
and, you know,
gave the singer
a shot and, you know,
and I just started
talking to her,
and she had all these
stories,
and she was telling stories
about Axl Rose
and how
he would want
to get a shot in his throat.
And the shot,
like a shot of heroin
in the back of his throat
that would, like,
loosen up his, like,
vocal chords and, like,
do all this crazy stuff.
She had insane stories.
I don't
I don't know
if it's true or not,
but she was telling
a few of them.
He's the one
they call like the feel good.
Yes.
Yeah. There you go.
No, I read his biography
and it's insane.
Like,
I don't know how
much of it is true
and how much he misremembers,
but it's absolutely insane.
I read also, too,
I think, and,
Lemmy's
autobiographies
and they're all insane, like,
but especially slash like,
that's just
the fact that he's
still alive is just amazing.
Really slash versus slash
versus Keith Richards.
I'm really curious.
Yeah.
Keith
Richards is an interesting
one, too.
I mean,
just off his dad's ashes.
Yeah.
And
but slash has a
defibrillator,
in his chest, like, that's,
that is that,
I mean, permanently,
it's it's
a stationary defibrillator.
And whenever he's like,
when he,
it jolts
him back to back to life
every once in a while.
So the book starts
with, like,
is having a concert
with Velvet Revolver,
and he's about
to do the solo,
and it feels like
kind of this thing
is about to fall over.
And then all of a sudden the
the defibrillator
starts him up again.
So
yeah, like, like
guns N Roses or Nirvana,
you know, it.
Just when you look back,
there's always that period
where there's
that kind of new sound,
you know,
that new that new sound,
because it was like
you were coming out of this
like kind of hair metal,
kind of like 80s metal.
And then you kind of
had like, a guns N roses,
you know what I mean?
Or like. Yeah.
You know, the Nirvana,
like some type of, like, news
or like a Rage
Against the Machine,
you know,
like a new sound
at that time, you know?
And I mean,
where are we at now?
Do people
still make music out?
Is any of it good?
Are people
still playing music?
Yeah.
I, I think like it's
there are probably bands
that are as good
or even better than them.
What we grow up with,
all around the world,
it's just that it doesn't
get as much attention
because it's not as
culturally relevant
as it was before
pre-Internet era,
because now the magic
is sort of gone with
with celebrity and
in general,
like there aren't any perks
to being famous anymore.
Like, in the same way
it's, it
there used to be like.
And you didn't.
We don't put
people on pedestals as,
like the movie heroes and the
the rock
and pop heroes of the
of the 80s.
I think the 80s
was sort of the peak
or early 90s
where, where you had
phenomena
like Michael Jackson
and Madonna and Axl Rose
and people like that
who, like,
were beyond famous.
They're like, next level.
I don't think
we'll ever see people
of that magnitude,
of fame again,
like the Kardashians
can try and Lady
Gaga can try,
but she's no Madonna
and she's no Michael Jackson.
Like,
the that's
there's just a
different level there.
And that's excellent talent,
you know what I mean?
But it's also talent.
Yeah.
Like a Kardashians
or a level of fame.
No, not right now.
It's a it's more
the talent is not the music.
The talent is,
managing
your social media accounts
like it's a different type of
talent, but it's it's not as
as pure.
It is as it used to be.
And there's an argument for,
like, going back
even further than that
and saying that
before the music video
that like,
real musicianship was,
was, rewarded
and not just
how you looked like
hair metal was a product
of the music video
being the
selling thing
and not the actual music,
I guess.
So,
what are your thoughts?
I mean,
the last time
that something
you heard something
and it was
and it was truly good.
And maybe there are fantasy
stick bands out there,
you know,
and every once in a while,
even in the past.
Well, okay,
so you look at
how much
amazing music happened
in the 40 years
of, you know, 1962,
you know, 1969.
Yeah, or whatever.
And then you look at
what's happened from
then to now and, you know,
it's not that
we're living under a rock,
you know, you
if there was a modern day,
Michael Jackson
or a modern day,
you know, U2
even or whatever,
it just doesn't seem like it
and like, you know,
like I loved the last Daft
Punk album, like,
if you know what I mean.
I think it came out in 2013.
Random access memories,
you know? Yeah.
So this is like
still like really solid
good music,
you know,
and it like,
finds its way in,
you know, or like,
I just can't think of,
like the last, like, amazing.
I mean, you're talking
like Dark Side of the moon.
Like, there isn't a bad
song on.
And any of
you know, this is a bad
microsecond on it.
Yeah, exactly.
Even when there's nothing.
Yeah, but, like,
you know what
is it a cycle?
Is it
because everything is
so technology driven?
You know what I mean?
Like when you're forced to
or like a White Stripes,
you know, I mean,
when a white Stripes
came on the scene,
you know, it's like a
two piece, you know.
Yeah, I love it. Yeah.
And that was never
about perfection.
It was about like, purity.
And,
that's why people loved it.
I guess.
And that, like,
he deliberately.
Jack white
deliberately limited himself
to like, okay, I'm
going to play the guitar.
I'm the keyboards
at the same time, like,
I have to.
And it's going to be hard.
I'm not going to
have even five
picks at the mic.
Then I'm going to have one.
And if I lose it, I'm fucked.
Like so.
Like he
he was all about
limiting himself
and I'm not going to have
a fancy drummer.
I'm going to have this
make character
who can
barely play drums,
but it's fucking perfect
for the for the thing.
So that's
it's an artistic choice.
I guess,
to limit yourselves and,
and I can identify with that.
Like if you're doing anything
creatively,
I think you have to
set boundaries for yourself.
Otherwise,
like you can drown
in the options you have.
And that's what's so it's
what's so amazing
about the computer era, it's
that you have
all these options and like,
you can do anything
with your life,
but it's also what
what makes us
we're not forced
to pick one thing anymore.
So.
So therefore,
no one gets super
good at this one thing
because they can always
choose to.
Now I'm bored with this.
I can go do this instead.
Like we're not, What?
When you didn't
have a computer,
you're forced to to,
And you had A.D.D..
You were
forced to practice
your guitar playing
every day, like,
for ten hours.
You weren't in the same way.
You're bored.
The same way you were before.
Before the internet.
And I think
a lot of creativity
is born out of boredom.
Like,
Yeah.
The difference
in between having the ability
to do everything
and being forced to,
with limited resources.
It's a weird place
that we're at right now.
Just it
it's humanity in anything
like I
no longer need
to know
anything about where I live
and like my brain
because I can follow
the blue line in my car,
you know what I mean?
It'll just tell me where
I'm going.
You know what I mean?
It doesn't like breed,
intelligence.
And it's probably
not even good for,
you know,
as a just as an exercise
like that,
that White Stripes album.
And, you know,
the big story was it?
I think the only page $16,000
to record that entire
first album, like,
they didn't spend much money,
you know,
and then you look
at projects like,
you know, whatever,
Axl Rose's
Chinese Democracy,
it takes 30 years
and all this money
and it's terrible, you know?
And it's like when you
when you come out
with something that's,
you know,
the way more time has passed
since that came out
than did
between that,
that and the the
the previous guns
album, by the way,
which is interesting
about time like,
it's just.
Yeah, the thing
is but you can,
you can be an
old man about it
and start yelling at clouds,
you know, and
say that everything
was better,
in back in my day.
But I don't think
that's very productive.
You have to, like, roll
with the times and adapt.
Sometimes
it can be fun to be nostalgic
and look back at stuff,
and you can appreciate stuff
from other eras.
Of course, but.
But I don't think it's very,
a very productive or useful,
way to,
to spend
your days just wishing that
wishing the internet
away like that.
I think the,
the upsides clearly,
outweigh the downsides.
We wouldn't
be able to have
this conversation
if they didn't write,
you know.
Oh, for sure.
And you don't want
to wish it away,
because there's,
like, endless good
also on the other side of it.
Right. Yeah.
So Comodo like, we we we,
we are perfect examples of,
you know,
so
I'm a semi crappy musician,
but I'm now, able
to travel the world
and play music for people
who like it
for some odd reason, without
without becoming a big
rock star before, like,
we could.
I can still it's like,
do the thing.
I do other things as well
and give talks at conferences
and sell books and stuff
and,
do this part
and managed to make a living
doing all those
all sorts of
things like these
and like the, the,
the whole rocket motor
thing is just a cherry on top
and it's, it's,
it's brilliant.
Like,
who knew like,
I just find it
so fascinating.
Yeah.
Well, you know,
I really do hope
that it evolves
and it continues,
you know, to get better.
And I have to tell you
that, like,
when you
like my entire life, can.
I mean, for, like,
I lived in a venue,
I lived there,
I lived in that place
with every possible scale of.
We're loading in
00 in the morning,
and they have two semis
in the whole production.
And every person
that's on that tour
and every part of that day
that goes into
that whole process, right
there are
so there's so much
that goes into
building that day to where
when you walk in
with your ticket
stub and like,
all of that shit is there,
you know,
not just for our
little fun thing,
but like,
I feel
I feel very at home there.
Like, I know how that works.
Like I used to do
sound, you know,
I can mix in a pinch.
Or light.
I was a professional
lighting engineer,
you know,
I even did, like, a DVD,
that came out like,
I love lights, you know?
And I love making the shit
look good.
And I just feel very good
doing that
because I did it
for such a long time,
you know?
And, you know,
when you do something
like you feel good on stage,
you feel good playing
because you were in bands
and you played in basements
and you practiced
and rehearsed
and did all this fun shit,
you know,
when you feel
good doing that.
No, this is
this is what it's all.
I love that
you put it this way
because like, this is what
Bitcoin and
then this community
allows for it.
All of a sudden you you
you have a use
for all of these
useless skills
that you
built up over the years.
You know.
And and it's not
only the,
the the music,
the like other shit
like my scribblings like,
I think I
probably like writing
because I wrote music, lyrics
like for,
for the longest song
lyrics for the longest time
like that, that has,
played a huge part
in why I started
writing books later on.
Like the book
sort of took over from the
from the music
when I stopped
playing in the band
and like, stopped
that whole trying,
trying so hard
career like, then,
something had
something had to give
and something had to,
to take from what gave like
and the writing became
became my new creative outlet
and so so but
it's through
writing song lyrics that I
developed this
fascination for,
for playing around with words
and, you know,
words have double
meanings and,
you can,
you can do stuff with them.
So, so
and I think this is true
for many Bitcoiners
that they find a way to,
to utilize their passions
and utilize their hidden
abilities,
to do something
in the Bitcoin space.
And it just it's
just like all the pieces,
you know, jigsaw
falling into place.
One one of my
favorite Radiohead
songs, by the way.
But that's what
it feels like.
It's, Yeah.
What are your thoughts?
Everyone's got a part.
A part to play.
Yeah.
So I, I want to ask you
a question, about
whether the
greatest of all time
sort of stuff is
will be timeless
and live forever.
Do you think that those
that everything
that we look at is, you know,
the greatest band?
By the way,
I didn't get your
three artists
that you would want on.
Oh, yeah.
But but, you know,
is this going
to be around it?
Does it does it yours either.
Like, I'm,
I'm trying to interview you,
but you end up interviewing
me instead. Well, okay,
which question
does a 22 year old kid ever
go through that phase
where they discover
the Beatles and Zeppelin,
and really does
that live on in
a, in a sort of a future
where people are maybe
short on attention spans
and we're living
in another world,
or do these things
sort of die away, you know?
I mean, I,
personally, I love to find
things that I don't know
of, right?
Calypso music
classics, you know, old songs
in the 40s, in the 30s.
You know,
there's a lot of like,
you know, little,
little jazz thing.
And I start to build
my own things
that I'd never discovered.
Right? Yeah, yeah.
You know, for Dollywood
classics or Weird Little,
which
wasn't that
fantastic in Medellin
when you just took an Uber
somewhere in the
the soundtrack to Medellin
was just great.
It was everywhere,
like calypso music
and South American
music, like,
it was just,
it was just pitch perfect.
And I just loved it.
All of it.
That's one of the fun things
about traveling.
Like, I have this playlist.
I'll share it with you.
It's a very long break,
and it's all timeless
classics.
And just, you know, there's
no there's
no garbage on there.
But we call it
our family playlist,
and you end up in Colombia,
or you're traveling
for whatever reason,
and you hear that song
and so many times
it's like, oh, whatever
this is,
you know, and you save it
and you add it to the list
and that comes on,
and it's some weird
Russian song
that we heard somewhere,
God knows where or whatever.
But it's like just good
music and like,
you know,
I maybe stumble on that,
but like, do,
do other
people are the classics
going to live on forever?
I think I think so,
it might be more French.
It might be more,
for the few them for that,
like,
not as popular
as before, but
but there will be nerds
who have their
Beatles periods and they're,
you know, Stravinsky periods
or their Zeppelin
periods or their,
Zappa periods, for instance.
I love Frank Zappa, by
the way. And I found, like,
befriended this guy
in, El Salvador,
in a village
next to El Santa who's,
an American guy
who really loves Frank Zappa.
We could recite lyrics.
We knew the lyrics
to all of these
deep cut songs
that nobody other.
Everyone else
was looking at us
like we were absolute idiots.
Like, because we are
and we just love.
I had back
when I was in my 20s,
I collected
Zappa albums,
so I had like around 50
Frank Zappa CD's.
I wanted to like deep dive
into everything he did
and like figure it out
because it was so complex.
And there's so much
it's such a treasure trove
once you find it.
And this goes for like,
I've had several
Beatles periods
during my life,
and I think
people in the future
will have those to like
because there's
there's so many aspects
of that band to to this.
It's such a,
a world in itself.
And their,
their entire career
spanned seven years.
I can't
wrap my head around
how cool that is.
And if you look at the
the Get Back
documentary that they made
with,
the Peter
Jackson made with, like,
when they have restored
the old footage
and separated
the tracks and everything,
so you can hear what
people are saying there.
It's like the opposite
of proof of work.
It's proof of
just goofing around.
They're just playing.
They're just like,
fiddling around and
but they're in there
doing the.
In a way, it's proof of work
because they're sitting there
playing at all times.
But the but it's all
it's all enjoyable
and it's all
none of it is like hard work.
It seems everything.
It's just, I'm here,
I want to do this
and I'm going to do it.
They managed to
have a fantastic career
doing exactly
what they wanted.
So I,
and I think Beatles is like,
there's so much
to find there.
And even like,
Post-beatles era,
John Paul
and and George
in particular.
Maybe not Ringo
that much, but but John,
Paul and George are are there
there are other
albums are also worth
worth a lesson or two.
And like trying to discover.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I'm a music fan, you know.
So and I know you were to
the proof of work for
the Beatles
was going to Hamburg
and playing
14 hours a day
that that was probably,
you know, that
probably got them absolutely.
And and George
Harrison was 17
when they started doing that.
Like he was super young.
And they were
they were kids
just goofing around.
But over such a short
period of time,
that's insane.
Much
like four movies
and the 11 albums
or whatever it is.
I don't know
the exact numbers, but,
how many top hits like
endless?
It's just amazing.
And and you know what?
I love about that?
And I don't know
if it's like this
for everyone,
but the B-sides
and the things that never
got released,
especially with Bob Dylan,
and the Beatles.
For me, Purple Rain,
rain, rain was a B-side,
can you imagine?
But like when you listen
to the The anthology
or the
The Beat album,
the have you ever heard
the Esther Demos,
which is the White
Album demos?
Where it's them
with a four track.
They were with Maharishi,
you know. Oh, yeah.
But you know, you can hear
just on a four track guitar,
you know, flew in from Miami
and it's like a
different tempo.
And it's like,
I just love listening
to the demos.
Like the demo
for Dear Prudence is like,
you know, insanely good.
And it's like super low
fi and it's not
and wasn't meant to come out.
But I think that it's
really interesting
that over time,
with your favorites,
some of your favorite things
to listen to weren't
even the final products,
you know, I mean, it
just so
and, and the, that,
that were those on the,
one of the anthology albums.
Yeah,
there were a few on there.
Yeah.
Because I released
for the White Album.
You can
you can listen
to the whole thing, though.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's
super interesting.
That's, that's
like my favorite metallic
album is And Justice for All.
And there's the like,
there's,
some recording of, like,
when they have the riffs
and it's just them
sending riffs,
demo tapes of riffs
to one another,
and it's so beautiful, like,
these are,
still to this day,
I think that
that's their most progressive
and that's their most
aggressive album.
And I absolutely love it.
I mean,
imagine these four guys,
they're also in their
early 20s
and their friend
has just died in a bus crash.
And,
and they're fucking angry.
And,
James has
had a, his rough childhood
and everything
and everything.
It's just poured out
on that album,
and it's such a,
pitch perfect thing.
Yeah.
That's another
one of my favorite albums,
by the way,
and justice for all.
And there are like,
it's legendary
because they they, the,
the bass is barely,
you can barely
hear it in the mix
because they didn't
want the bass there
because it reminded them
of their old bass player
or something.
The guy that died. So,
so, did you see the movie?
Did you see the
Metallica movie?
Which one of them,
like, the,
the some kind of monster?
Yeah. Oh, man.
Yeah, yeah. When the.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's
what's hilarious.
It's hilarious.
Like the therapy sessions.
Yeah, yeah.
And they're paying
this guy, like
$7,000 a day
or something, like.
And he's just a complete
arguing about
whether every song needs
a solo, you know?
And it's,
it's amazing
that they survived that
and that there's still,
sort of relevant
and still sell out
shows and stuff.
I mean, I don't personally,
I don't think they ever made
a good album
after the Black Album,
but but but still,
there's they're still touring
and every once in a while
there's a semi
good song coming out and,
I respect
the hell out of them
for, for like,
walking the walk
the way they do and and.
Yeah.
So who's left to see who.
Have you not seen that
still touring
that you want to see.
And let me tell you Primus.
Primus I never saw Primus.
But wait,
there's still touring.
Yeah, there's
they did
like one of the best concerts
I've ever seen.
Like,
I didn't see it myself,
but I saw it on YouTube
is when Trey and Matt play
all the South Park songs
with Prima's and Ween.
Like,
that was right up my alley.
I absolutely love
all the South Park stuff.
And and there
some super talented
musicians too.
Especially when playing
with Primus.
So.
So yeah, I'd like to see that
if if I could pick one band
that I haven't seen
that I'd like,
it's probably Primus.
And how about you?
I don't know, and I ruined it
because I finally saw
the Rolling Stones
not too long ago,
and I wish, I wish I didn't
because it just was crap.
Well, no,
I'm picturing, like,
everything that I know of
the Rolling Stones and,
you know,
I mean, the 70s
and like every
it was just it was so bad.
They just don't care.
I mean, it was
it was kind of
I wish I almost wish
that I actually do
wish that I didn't go
and I could just
keep it in my life
or I wish
that I would have saw them
in the 90s,
maybe
when it was a little bit
of a different thing.
Same thing
with Bob Dylan right now.
I mean,
I wish I could have
saw him in the 90s,
but it is a terrible show.
It is. It is an awful show.
Did you know
after the the,
the Prague, the
the 2023 one?
Luke
and I went to see,
and Luke's wife
went to see, Pantera.
Wow.
The Pantera reunion
or whatever you call the pit.
There are tributes.
I bet there's.
And that was really good.
And Prague is Prague
especially, you know, like,
if you're going to see bands
in, in Europe,
you should
see them in Prague,
because like, that's
where the
we know that that's
where the cool underground
pubs are.
And everything and like,
oh, of course
this was in a big
arena and stuff,
but it was really cool.
And they sounded
good, like really good.
I wish I would have seen
AcDc in the, in the late 90s.
I actually did see them
not too long ago
on the tour with Axl Rose.
Oh, you saw that?
Yeah.
They sent their singer home
because I guess his death,
which is
which is a tough thing. This.
How do you have
that conversation?
Listen, you're leaving her,
and you can't shit.
But anyway, Yeah. Yeah.
Go on. It was still good.
Did you ever see them?
I know,
but I saw the clips
of Axl Rose singing.
Ironically enough,
I think Axl Rose
sort of redeemed himself.
I mean, he's been sounding
like Mickey Mouse
for a long time.
Like, he hasn't been good,
since the 90s. Really?
And,
but but I think
the AC, DC stuff
sounded really good.
Like,
he sort of redeemed himself.
I guess he had to
kick himself in the book
because he got that gig
and they took pride in it.
So the clips
I've seen sounded good.
Did it sound good?
Like like, was he okay?
I mean, you
know, Angus
Young is actually
a teetotaler.
So he doesn't do any drugs,
drinking, nothing.
He's very,
But he's a chain smoker.
Yeah. He smokes like crazy.
So he's getting up there
in years,
and,
you know,
it was
still a very good show.
Like, it was.
It wasn't like the stones
thing.
The stones
thing was embarrassing.
It was still
a very good show.
It was weird
because Axl
just hung out in the back.
The basically,
the back of the stage
didn't really live it
up, like,
it wasn't really his thing.
Like he stayed in the back
a little bit,
but it was fine.
But AC, DC
still does something
really cool
where a lot of their
their show is still
very like analog.
Like they have the big check,
you know, that
that blows up the inflatable,
the inflatable
thing that comes out
and kind of floats around
and it's so cool
because it's
not just like everything
is, you know,
CGI technology,
like it's still.
And it was awesome
and it was cool.
Whole Lotta Rosie,
that's Rosie, right?
Yeah. Inflatable shake.
Now, I love, this,
AC DC anecdote
where
the interviewers,
accuses Angus of like, AC.
DC has just made
the same album
12 times in a row.
Like, it's
it all sounds the same.
And he's like,
no, no, no,
that's, entirely not true.
That it's completely false.
We've actually made 13 albums
that some.
I mean,
that drummer,
he has to be bored.
Yeah.
The AC DC drummer,
but man, I don't care.
That's a hit, man.
That's
that's all you need to play?
No, and I mean,
an album like High Voltage.
Like how how fucking good is
that?
Or Hell's Bells,
or what's up with
Back in black?
Back in black.
You know,
that was after
the original singer died.
Yeah, yeah,
but that's the first one
with Brian, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
And it's so good.
And,
I mean, they put up
so many,
so many killer things,
so like,
I can't imagine, like,
I, I love and
I love listening to AC, DC
while I drive.
Like, it's the perfect car.
Music.
And they're fairly easy
riffs to play, right?
Like,
if you're young
and learning to play guitar,
I mean, it's.
Yeah. Is it not?
Is it
not a bad place to start?
It's a good place to start,
I guess.
And like,
this is one of the perks
of all of these bands
that we grow up with.
Everyone learn to play guitar
by playing
like Metallica, Iron
Maiden and AC, DC riffs.
Like, when I grew up.
That's that's what we did.
Like we learned how to play
run to the Hills,
for instance.
Everyone knew that.
And, Enter Sandman,
everyone knew that.
And, like stuff like that.
Yeah.
Or, Highway to Hell.
Yeah.
That's a
that's a Canute classic.
That's on the
that's on the short list.
I can't sing it though.
Like we had to transpose it
when we played it in Prague.
Luke claims that he can sing
AC, DC in the original key,
so we'll have to
he'll have to sing
the AC DC songs next time,
and we'll have to, like,
practice them.
Yeah, sure.
I'd love to play some
more AC, DC for sure.
I may be able to help you out
a little bit,
so I don't know.
You should. You should.
I wish I would have helped
Joe out
with some of his songs.
I mean, I don't even need
the iPad.
I know every damn word.
I'm a big words guy.
I mean, I could have
did all those pop punk songs,
small things.
Yeah, I know you hate it.
You hate it all.
No, no, I love it,
I love it,
I absolutely love it.
I it's okay.
And I pretended that
I hated it in my teens,
but I loved it back then too.
Like, I, I love the pop
punk stuff.
I think it's brilliant.
Yeah.
It had its it had its moment.
Absolutely.
So, must I mean,
this has been more
you interviewing me than me
interviewing you,
but so before, before we run
this off,
we've been going here for,
if anyone. Stephen.
Still listening?
This this is
coming up on on, like,
80 minutes or something, but,
let's say it was.
Let's go back to, Lightning
Ventures and Thunder.
Thunder.
Is there anything else
you want to add about that?
Because we've
been talking music
now for most of this.
So, so
so so
what else is there to say
about that?
The most important thing
is I'm helping Knute
develop a show
that is going to be
really all about music
and dive into,
you know, bands
or albums or songs,
maybe play a few clips
here and there.
I'm looking forward to,
seeing how that goes.
So, yeah,
Lightning Ventures,
if you're curious,
if you want to
join our group,
but we are the world's
largest Bitcoin focused
investing network.
Meet cool people, get jobs,
get work
partnerships,
invest in companies,
get money
for your own company.
We've been fiat
mining for Bitcoin startups
since 2021.
So that's a little bit
on Lightning Ventures.
And,
it's different
than these other, VC firms.
Right?
The, the other VCs,
you know,
they raised $30 million
and then they
spend your money
and we do it
a little bit differently,
where you get to make
your own decisions
and get rolling.
They make a lot
more money, though,
so maybe I should do
what they do.
And then Thunder.
Thunder, of course,
is a CF funding portal.
That's thunder. Thunder.com.
Totally free to sign up.
We have two live
deals there right now.
You know,
we're just getting started
on the platform,
so send us all
your bug requests.
Send us shit.
That doesn't work.
You know, sending
messages back
and forth, public profiles,
earning badges,
all kinds of stuff there.
So we're just getting started
with Thunder. Thunder.
But those are the two
main things
that I'm working on.
Although our primary
revenue driver
is Satoshi Nakamoto.
So that's really
that's really.
Yeah.
Right.
I mean,
so you have to tell me
is, the name Thunder.
Thunder?
Oh, is that, alluding to
to the Lightning Network
or was it purely
an AC DC hint?
It's not,
but it's a little of both.
You know,
when I was 13 or 14,
I had the third,
largest AC,
DC website on the internet.
I wrote it
in, notepad on my computer.
It was called High Voltage,
was the name of the site.
And it was probably one
of those GeoCities
slash whatever, tilde,
you know,
or maybe something
like that, but,
but yeah, I love
I love that and, you know,
kind of a play on,
you know, Lightning Ventures.
Lightning Ventures
isn't just about lightning,
companies.
It's all things Bitcoin.
And it's a jazzy name.
And, you know,
I think that lightning is
is the way that it's going,
and that is the future.
But we do
a lot of other things
that are
that are not necessarily
just lightning focused.
So fantastic.
And what's the website again?
Lightning
Adventures and
Thunder thunder.com.
All right.
And,
would you like to see me
and must do a show
where we dissect album
by album
music albums and,
our favorites
from the past and,
and talk about each track
and how they were recorded
and why,
if so, comments below.
And and tell us
what you think
about that idea.
Yeah.
There's just things
that happened to you.
I mean,
the intro to thunderstruck, I
when that comes on,
I just can't,
I just, I can't,
I can't, I just,
it's so good.
When I see you do that, I,
I sometimes wish
I still had my long hair.
Well, it's not too late.
Cannot grow it back.
Well, I have a hat now.
I like hats, too.
Anyway, must.
It's been great
talking to you, and,
it's been great doing this
rock, Commodus, with you.
And I hope we get to do
more of them in the future
and get to hang out
and play chess and drink
adult beverages.
Whatever.
Whatever's on the table,
literally and metaphorically.
So, see you next time.
Yeah. Can you.
Thanks very much, man.
Cheers to you.
This has been the Bitcoin
Infinity Show.
Thanks for listening.