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Before Bitcoin, I had started to become sort of, pessimistic about the future.

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I was starting to look at the future as one where I didn't have as much hope.

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I didn't know if I would be able to afford all the things that I need to

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afford to have a family or retire.

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I was full of fear and anxiety about the future, uh, and I've always been

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like a long term planner, but I just like, didn't know how to make it work.

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And then when I learned about Bitcoin, it was like, Being injected with a huge

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dose of hope and optimism, and I believe that we can actually fix these problems.

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We have this amazing tool to address them.

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It's just that people don't know about it or understand it.

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So now I'm really hopeful and optimistic and if anyone has a

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problem with that, I don't care.

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Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint show.

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Our guest today is Natalie Brunell, former mainstream media journalist and

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now turned Bitcoin educator and podcaster.

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Thanks very much for joining us, Natalie.

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Welcome to the Freedom Footprint show.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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I'm looking forward to this.

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Yeah, so are we!

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Uh, so glad to have you here, Natalie, and, uh, so happy that we're gonna

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see each other again soon on the island of Madeira, uh, in, uh, I

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mean, it's even this month now, right?

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Isn't it?

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Yeah, yeah.

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officially in February.

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Holy, holy something.

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It's getting closer for sure.

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Uh, yeah, we spent a couple of days in a bus in Bulgaria together.

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That was, that was all good fun.

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And we visited, Plovdiv.

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Have you seen the football team there now accepting

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I know.

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I saw the announcements.

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That's super exciting.

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Yeah, we were, we're really fortunate.

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We got to tour the entire country.

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Um, I, I actually had been to Bulgaria when I was a little girl, but have no

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recollection because I was so young.

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So now I, I got to see the whole thing and it was on a bus with

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you and Jeff Booth and Greg Foss.

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It was, it was awesome.

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Yeah, I loved it.

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Uh, and, and, uh, our tour guide, what was her name?

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Marina?

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Oh, yeah, I think it was Marina.

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We orange pilled her, right?

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yeah, yeah.

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And yeah, she was fantastic and, and full days, like 12 hours

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sightseeing days, like fantastic.

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And, uh, yeah, a really good time.

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yeah, uh, I'm curious about your orange pill story.

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Like how did you get orange pilled and, and what made you decide to, to like

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drop mainstream stuff completely and now hop on, be a full time Bitcoin person?

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Sorry

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are a couple of layers to this.

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So, I first heard about Bitcoin in late 2016, early 2017.

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That's when I first bought.

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And I was working as a mainstream journalist in a

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city in California, Sacramento.

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So, I was covering the capital of California.

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And friends of mine lived in San Francisco.

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They all worked in tech.

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And they just started talking about Crypto, Bitcoin, uh, one

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of them worked at Coinbase.

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So I was like, what is this thing?

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And of course, at the time, I didn't understand money.

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I didn't know I didn't understand money, but I didn't.

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And I, I thought, okay, well, this is maybe, you know, it's

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probably similar to stocks.

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I don't really invest in stocks, but what if I Put a little bit of my

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money in and I could just make, you know, make a fortune or whatever.

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I was looking at it from kind of a speculative gambling point of

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view because I was not making very much and I felt behind financially.

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And then, um, about a year or two later, I had a mentor of mine.

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I told him that I bought Bitcoin and he went out and he

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ordered the Bitcoin standard.

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Because that was, I think, one of the first books that came

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up when he Googled Bitcoin.

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And he basically kept prodding me.

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He was like, you have to read this book.

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You have to read this book.

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This is everything that represents what you talk about, what you

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report on, what the future is, what your family went through.

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And I was like, oh, please, Larry.

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Like, I don't have time to read a computer programming book.

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I'm not, I'm not technical.

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I'm not interested in computer science.

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And so I put it off.

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I put it off.

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And then I finally read it.

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Like, a couple years later, I can kick myself because.

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Obviously, Bitcoin went up during that time, but I read it and

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it was like this aha moment.

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Like, oh my God, how did I not know that we went off the gold standard in 1971?

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And I didn't understand what money printing is and fractional reserve

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banking and the history of money.

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And it was just like this transformative moment for me.

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But what's crazy is I feel like the seed was planted for Bitcoin.

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In my childhood, because my family is from Poland, my parents grew up

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under communism, they knew what hard money is, they appreciated that, and

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when they came here, um, to the U.

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S., they worked so hard, and, you know, worked multiple jobs, early

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mornings, late nights, and just when they were finally able to afford a

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mortgage on a very small home outside of Chicago, then the financial

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crisis hit, and they lost everything.

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They had to file for bankruptcy in their 50s, and I was like,

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What is wrong with this system?

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Like, aren't we in the country that represents opportunity, and

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the American dream, and all the things my parents came here for?

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when did they move there?

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So, my parents, and I was little, I was 5 years old, we

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were, uh, we immigrated in 1991.

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So, just after communism ended, yeah.

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Yeah, but so anyway, I mean, for me it was like It was like

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connecting all the dots all at once.

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I realized that the reason that my parents went through everything they

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did, the reason the great financial crisis happened and the impact of it

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afterward is because our money's broken.

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It's because of this monopoly over money and the fact that the state completely

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controls it and just prints, prints, prints, and, um, and, and, of course,

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the public has to pay for all of that.

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And it's the people at the top that benefit at the expense of everyone else.

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And so, for me, it turned into this mission.

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Like, I have to learn everything I can about this.

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And then, really, leaving my job, it was kind of an accident.

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I started a podcast because I tried to pitch stories about

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Bitcoin for my news networks.

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And they weren't crazy about it, right?

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I got to do maybe one or two, and they were like Go focus on these other things.

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And so I just did the podcast as a hobby because I was so passionate about it.

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And it started to gain an audience and I started to get requested on shows.

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And so I just took a chance.

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Like I, I didn't have a salary guaranteed.

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I didn't have income guaranteed, but I thought I could probably

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do so much more around the world, helping people understand this

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in a way that's approachable.

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then anything that I could accomplish at this point with news, which I felt was

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going down path of politicization and and honestly, the business models just

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completely broken in news at this point.

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Yeah, this is so fascinating, because there's a saying, a Swedish

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saying, it goes something like, Man ska vis, och härre folk på deras.

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Which translates into, you should speak to To peasants in the way peasants

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talk, and to lords the way lords talk.

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Something like that.

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Yeah, and I find it so fascinating because, I really admire people that have

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that skill, that are able to, like, blend into any situation, and any type of group

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of people and be able to talk to them all.

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And I think you're, you're the one that can do that to this corporate media world.

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There's no, there's no other voice in Bitcoin that can

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do that quite like you can.

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Uh, so, so I really, I think we've, we've got, you've, you've

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got a special thing there.

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So, so, uh, so, so what, what happened there?

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Like, uh, were you first?

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Did they want to distance themselves from you when you started

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bitcoining, or were they like curious or interested immediately?

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Like how, how, why, what happened that made you end up

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on Fox News every now and then?

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Like from then till now?

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Well, first of all, thank you.

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And, um, just to one of your points, you know, I'm really

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grateful for this career because.

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At times I questioned it, you know, like, five years in, I was, I was a reporter for

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more than 10 years, and about five years in, again, I felt like the country was

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starting to get more and more political.

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Everything was like, are you, are you red?

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Are you blue?

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Like, we can't be friends anymore.

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I mean, things were crazy after the 2016 election.

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I had never seen our country turn into these two teams before.

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But to your point, as a reporter, I had to cover everything.

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I had to go into homeless encampments and interview people that were living

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on the street and doing drugs, all the way to city hall interviewing

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the mayor or someone running for a presidential office or on the red

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carpet in Hollywood, the celebrity.

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So I got a range, like I don't have fear of asking someone to talk to me because

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I literally, my job depended on having to talk to anybody from any walks of life.

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In order to get the story.

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So separately from that, um, you know, the last couple of years of my job, I just,

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I went on this journey with Bitcoin and I realized that so many people don't have

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this information, uh, and they need it.

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And again, I tried to sort of tell stories.

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I did like an intro to Bitcoin mining story.

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But my station, it's not that they cared that I was investing in Bitcoin,

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because actually one of my bosses was a Bitcoiner, and we would like talk

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about the price as this was running up to 60, 000 right before I left my job.

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Um, but I actually got lucky in the sense that before my last

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I actually had a podcast that was just a hobby and it had

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nothing to do with Bitcoin.

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It was called Career Stories.

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You can look it up.

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And I would interview people that achieved success and they would

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talk about like how they got there.

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It was their total, their backstories, their origin stories,

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which if you know coin stories, that's how it all started too.

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It's like, where'd you come from?

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You know, what did you want to be when you grew up?

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How did you achieve your goals?

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What, what obstacles did you face?

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And so I wrote a Into my news contract in my last job that I can still do

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that podcast that I'm allowed to because when you sign a TV contract in

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the US, it's normally very exclusive and they only want you to produce

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content for whichever network it is.

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They don't want you doing something outside of it, especially if

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you're on like a full time.

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Deal.

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So I was very lucky.

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It was like kind of meant to be because I had this podcast.

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I made sure that my attorney wrote it into the contract that

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Natalie Brunell has a podcast.

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She can continue to do it.

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It has nothing to do with this job.

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You guys don't have any ownership of it.

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And so I originally thought, Oh, I'll do a season of career stories.

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I'll focus it on like 12 big Bitcoin people hear their backstories

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and you know, that'll be that.

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It'll be like 12 episodes.

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I'll call it coin stories.

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Peace.

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And lo and behold, here I am, you know, two and a half years later, it's

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my full time job, but yeah, I mean, basically, I was gonna renew, I was

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gonna stay at the network, uh, that I was at, I, I liked my job because

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I got a lot of freedom and autonomy, I was investigating a lot of public

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corruption and things that interested me.

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But something just kept telling me I can do more with Bitcoin if I leave.

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And they weren't super happy that I was starting to do more interviews and talking

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about a financial, you know, asset.

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So I think it was kind of meant to be, I was at a crossroads.

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I could have stayed the stable route and gone with the income and everything that

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I was, it was predictable and stable, or I could go down this other path.

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And I told myself, I'll give it a year.

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I'll live off savings for a year.

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If it doesn't work out, I'll try to get another news job and maybe

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I'll have to take a step back.

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But if it works out, great.

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And it worked out.

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Yeah.

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Well, our stories are more similar than you might think.

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Like this is very similar to, to what I did and here I am doing a podcast as well.

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Enjoying it a lot, and, uh, like, a podcast gives you so much more than what

242
00:13:21,268 --> 00:13:25,558
you think it will give you, like, the best thing, I think, is like, getting to

243
00:13:25,558 --> 00:13:29,978
know people more, and like, strengthen these bonds, and get to know new people,

244
00:13:29,978 --> 00:13:35,028
and like, just widen your network, it's fantastic, especially with Bitcoin,

245
00:13:35,038 --> 00:13:36,953
where everyone is incentivized to do it.

246
00:13:37,113 --> 00:13:38,353
To be awesome to one another.

247
00:13:38,453 --> 00:13:39,973
So, yeah, it's just perfect.

248
00:13:40,528 --> 00:13:41,558
Just to add to that.

249
00:13:41,568 --> 00:13:48,188
So in my old job, I would work at minimum eight hours, maybe just a whole

250
00:13:48,188 --> 00:13:52,488
day, but possibly a week or a month to put on like a two minute news story.

251
00:13:52,808 --> 00:13:55,738
Usually my, my maximum was 90 seconds.

252
00:13:55,788 --> 00:14:00,288
So I would work eight to nine hours to put on 90 seconds of television.

253
00:14:00,778 --> 00:14:04,278
And you have to be very skillful, like what do you leave in, what

254
00:14:04,278 --> 00:14:05,738
do you, what can you take out?

255
00:14:05,828 --> 00:14:09,718
Um, so I got very good at writing very short stories and telling

256
00:14:09,718 --> 00:14:14,128
things in like a very, a very short format, but I love long form because

257
00:14:14,128 --> 00:14:16,038
you get all the context, right?

258
00:14:16,038 --> 00:14:19,888
You can just sit down with someone, hear their whole story, you understand the

259
00:14:19,888 --> 00:14:24,488
nuance and all these details that you can't get from a 90 second news story.

260
00:14:24,768 --> 00:14:28,788
So I love podcasts because they just allow you to breathe and just take

261
00:14:28,808 --> 00:14:32,553
time to like, Figure out who the person is or what the topic really is.

262
00:14:32,553 --> 00:14:36,433
And I'm really grateful that I get to do that because before it was like everything

263
00:14:36,433 --> 00:14:39,163
was crammed into this short time capsule.

264
00:14:39,923 --> 00:14:44,203
Yeah, and how much time would you say you spend now for, for doing,

265
00:14:44,213 --> 00:14:45,883
before you do a Coin Stories?

266
00:14:46,133 --> 00:14:47,143
Like, before and after?

267
00:14:47,143 --> 00:14:52,353
How much, like, if the actual pod is two hours, how much, how much time beyond

268
00:14:52,363 --> 00:14:54,173
that do you spend on making the pod?

269
00:14:54,883 --> 00:14:59,103
So, um, I would say that the majority of the time outside of the actual

270
00:14:59,263 --> 00:15:03,413
podcast recording is spent on booking the guests and researching the guests.

271
00:15:03,643 --> 00:15:06,473
And then after the fact, there's a little bit of post production, and I

272
00:15:06,473 --> 00:15:09,853
actually, people will be surprised, but I still edit most of my shows.

273
00:15:09,913 --> 00:15:14,793
Uh, I have a little bit of help, but I just, I, I edited in school, and this

274
00:15:14,793 --> 00:15:19,133
is literally what I was doing when I was in college and grad school, so, um,

275
00:15:19,153 --> 00:15:22,643
so I still like to have that control, and I, it doesn't bother me to do the

276
00:15:22,643 --> 00:15:27,633
production, so, um, so I would say, you know, one episode still, I would say, you

277
00:15:27,633 --> 00:15:32,263
know, like a two hour, Or maybe one hour episode takes like eight hours totally

278
00:15:32,263 --> 00:15:34,503
with booking, research to complete.

279
00:15:35,245 --> 00:15:43,045
Oh yeah, I'm so lucky to have a Luke, which I trust completely, whom I trust

280
00:15:43,055 --> 00:15:44,805
completely to do all the editing,

281
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,130
Well, I have, I'll give a shout out to, I have this amazing producer

282
00:15:49,130 --> 00:15:50,570
who helps me named Aaron Bender.

283
00:15:50,570 --> 00:15:51,550
He's fantastic.

284
00:15:51,580 --> 00:15:53,050
So I am grateful for his help.

285
00:15:53,060 --> 00:15:55,750
He's probably, he probably laughs at me because he's like, I'll, I'll do it all.

286
00:15:55,750 --> 00:15:56,789
And I'm like, no, no, no.

287
00:15:56,790 --> 00:15:58,090
I still want to edit some of it.

288
00:15:59,697 --> 00:16:01,084
Well,

289
00:16:02,515 --> 00:16:07,145
but that's like, that's how you, I mean, I think people can tell that you're very

290
00:16:07,145 --> 00:16:11,825
genuine in what you do and that you're knowledgeable about the stuff and that

291
00:16:11,845 --> 00:16:16,225
it's not It's not just faking it till you make it, you've actually done your

292
00:16:16,225 --> 00:16:23,215
homework, uh, and I think, yeah, and that is, like, either you have a personality

293
00:16:23,215 --> 00:16:28,989
that wants to be involved in stuff, or you don't, I think it's very telling, I

294
00:16:29,249 --> 00:16:33,999
mean, And that's, that's the thing when you do, um, long format things also,

295
00:16:33,999 --> 00:16:38,109
and like, have to flesh out the ideas, you can't really, you can't really

296
00:16:38,109 --> 00:16:44,009
hide, it's impossible to do, like, two hours twice a week or something, uh,

297
00:16:44,019 --> 00:16:49,014
long format conversations with people Play, uh, play theater and wear a

298
00:16:49,014 --> 00:16:51,114
mask and try to be someone you're not.

299
00:16:51,194 --> 00:16:57,154
Like, it just doesn't work in this, and that's why I think podcasting is so, why

300
00:16:57,154 --> 00:17:02,494
people crave, crave it and want to listen to it because it's so much more honest.

301
00:17:03,088 --> 00:17:07,788
and that, that's what made Joe Rogan a success, he's, for what it's worth,

302
00:17:07,808 --> 00:17:13,468
he's honest, like, take it or leave it, that's, uh, that's podcasting.

303
00:17:14,463 --> 00:17:19,823
and I'm really grateful that the internet has created an opportunity where you can

304
00:17:19,833 --> 00:17:24,783
have this form of decentralized media and independent creators and voices come

305
00:17:24,783 --> 00:17:30,438
out and provide a different source or a different opinion because I didn't realize

306
00:17:30,438 --> 00:17:34,898
this when I was younger, but we have very few official gatekeepers, you know, when,

307
00:17:34,908 --> 00:17:39,418
when everyone's just maybe they're picking out of a couple of channels or a couple

308
00:17:39,418 --> 00:17:43,678
of different newspapers, um, and all of them start to say the same thing, you

309
00:17:43,678 --> 00:17:45,328
know, are you getting the full picture?

310
00:17:45,368 --> 00:17:47,668
Are you hearing the other side of every argument?

311
00:17:47,678 --> 00:17:51,848
How close are they with Maybe government officials or the people they're supposed

312
00:17:51,858 --> 00:17:54,128
to be holding accountable or corporations.

313
00:17:54,988 --> 00:17:59,618
Very early in my career, one of my first news jobs, my first television

314
00:17:59,618 --> 00:18:05,048
job, I reported on a public corruption scandal involving our mayor.

315
00:18:05,418 --> 00:18:10,078
And there were aspects of the story where I was trying to, you know,

316
00:18:10,088 --> 00:18:12,648
publish information and advertisers.

317
00:18:13,278 --> 00:18:17,248
That were, you know, paying money to the station got very, very upset.

318
00:18:17,538 --> 00:18:21,288
And I sort of saw that there is a balancing act where sometimes

319
00:18:21,368 --> 00:18:25,798
stations will, you know, they're concerned about losing their revenue.

320
00:18:25,848 --> 00:18:27,528
So will they report every story?

321
00:18:27,528 --> 00:18:29,988
And that made me really worried as a journalist, because I

322
00:18:29,988 --> 00:18:33,183
thought This has to, it has to be about exposing the truth, right?

323
00:18:33,183 --> 00:18:35,793
I mean, especially someone who holds public office and they're

324
00:18:35,793 --> 00:18:38,523
dealing with taxpayer dollars and they're accountable to us.

325
00:18:38,523 --> 00:18:39,033
The public.

326
00:18:39,063 --> 00:18:39,693
The public.

327
00:18:40,143 --> 00:18:43,203
Um, so it, it's just, it was a fascinating journey to see how

328
00:18:43,203 --> 00:18:46,713
journalism has changed and how the technology around it has changed.

329
00:18:46,713 --> 00:18:49,233
Where all of a sudden now you're on Facebook or Twitter and people are

330
00:18:49,473 --> 00:18:53,553
posting their own videos and they, can be journalists basically based anywhere.

331
00:18:53,853 --> 00:19:00,253
And I think it's great because now the media have to also be accountable.

332
00:19:00,793 --> 00:19:03,413
And if there's another side that they're not covering, well, you're

333
00:19:03,413 --> 00:19:04,803
going to be able to find it online.

334
00:19:06,018 --> 00:19:10,678
Yeah, I saw an, an interesting Twitter post about, uh, how many layoffs

335
00:19:10,718 --> 00:19:14,218
there've been, uh, there have been in, uh, mainstream media in the U.

336
00:19:14,218 --> 00:19:14,498
S.

337
00:19:14,498 --> 00:19:15,828
la just this last year.

338
00:19:16,253 --> 00:19:20,213
Like, so many of the big magazines and the big news channels and

339
00:19:20,213 --> 00:19:26,043
everything, AI is eating everything, because I love the term Alex Svetsky

340
00:19:26,103 --> 00:19:31,133
coined for it, mid width obsolescence technology, so it's, it's removing all

341
00:19:31,133 --> 00:19:32,743
the middle of the bell curve, people.

342
00:19:32,743 --> 00:19:38,733
So, AI won't replace handymen or something like, very basic labor, and

343
00:19:38,733 --> 00:19:42,263
it won't replace the really, really, really high skilled labor, but it

344
00:19:42,263 --> 00:19:43,853
will replace everything in between.

345
00:19:45,113 --> 00:19:48,993
And that's what I think, like, so many journalists have been, you know,

346
00:19:49,243 --> 00:19:54,243
able to just make a living off of regurgitating and copy pasting and,

347
00:19:54,303 --> 00:20:00,373
and just being a mouthpiece for, for whoever the highest bidder is.

348
00:20:01,273 --> 00:20:03,923
And so, so, so what do you do to like, I mean.

349
00:20:04,353 --> 00:20:08,883
I can imagine how many bags of, uh, shiny shit coins they dangle

350
00:20:08,883 --> 00:20:10,533
in front of, in front of you.

351
00:20:10,893 --> 00:20:13,603
Uh, you know, having seen how many they dangle in front of me.

352
00:20:13,603 --> 00:20:18,303
So like, what, what is your, how do you keep your integrity intact?

353
00:20:18,303 --> 00:20:22,843
And like, what's, what's your, like, what's your views on morals and ethics

354
00:20:23,086 --> 00:20:23,226
Yeah.

355
00:20:23,446 --> 00:20:24,866
No, and it's a great question.

356
00:20:24,896 --> 00:20:28,516
Um, so it was a journey for me too, because like I said, when I first

357
00:20:28,756 --> 00:20:34,356
entered into this space, 2016, 2017, my friends owned crypto, right?

358
00:20:34,356 --> 00:20:36,346
They were talking about Bitcoin, but also crypto.

359
00:20:36,366 --> 00:20:42,721
And I didn't know, and I fell into the, you know, the notion that, oh, well,

360
00:20:42,721 --> 00:20:47,011
if these are cheaper, I can buy more and maybe one of them will take off.

361
00:20:47,011 --> 00:20:49,921
And then, again, here's the thing, too.

362
00:20:49,931 --> 00:20:53,341
I was really driven by the fact that I didn't have enough money.

363
00:20:54,591 --> 00:20:58,101
people, I think, glamorize what news is.

364
00:20:58,101 --> 00:21:01,481
And, and, and at one time, people did make a really great amount of money.

365
00:21:01,481 --> 00:21:03,691
And if you're at the top of the game, right?

366
00:21:03,691 --> 00:21:07,781
If you're like Anderson Cooper or Robin Roberts, one of these famous American

367
00:21:07,781 --> 00:21:10,531
anchors, you are making millions of dollars, but when you go to these

368
00:21:10,631 --> 00:21:16,231
small networks, channels, newspapers, people are barely making a living.

369
00:21:16,231 --> 00:21:19,111
I was always paying more than 50 percent of my paycheck on rent.

370
00:21:19,701 --> 00:21:23,621
My first job was less than 30, 000 US a year, which for America,

371
00:21:23,871 --> 00:21:25,671
it's really hard to live on that.

372
00:21:26,576 --> 00:21:29,496
And that was after getting my master's degree and taking out student loan debt.

373
00:21:29,496 --> 00:21:30,556
I mean, it was horrible, right?

374
00:21:30,586 --> 00:21:35,106
So when I looked at Bitcoin and crypto early on, I was like, Oh my God,

375
00:21:35,106 --> 00:21:39,566
maybe this is the way I finally, you know, hit a lottery ticket and I make

376
00:21:39,566 --> 00:21:41,356
some money and I can help my family.

377
00:21:41,776 --> 00:21:45,826
So I was purely Looking at it speculatively and like gambling, and

378
00:21:45,826 --> 00:21:48,796
I bought a couple of the other tokens, and of course now I look back and

379
00:21:48,796 --> 00:21:52,256
I regret because all of that money ended up, I ended up losing all of it.

380
00:21:52,646 --> 00:21:55,846
Um, some of it went up, but then it was like, oh, well, shoot,

381
00:21:55,846 --> 00:21:57,086
I'm going to be hit with taxes.

382
00:21:57,186 --> 00:21:59,076
All of it ended up going to zero for me.

383
00:22:00,726 --> 00:22:05,866
So, I wish that I had just taken the time back then to learn why all these very

384
00:22:05,866 --> 00:22:09,996
intelligent people were saying, no, it's Bitcoin only, and that's really what it

385
00:22:09,996 --> 00:22:14,621
took for me is just taking that extra time To say, well, why are these very

386
00:22:14,981 --> 00:22:20,261
successful, smart people who I respect so much, why are they saying Bitcoin only?

387
00:22:20,271 --> 00:22:21,091
And I had to learn.

388
00:22:21,091 --> 00:22:23,041
I had to learn about the blockchain trilemma.

389
00:22:23,041 --> 00:22:27,041
I had to go more into the technical components of the technology to

390
00:22:27,041 --> 00:22:30,156
realize that, okay, maybe some of these people in the space That

391
00:22:30,156 --> 00:22:31,606
are creating other protocols.

392
00:22:31,606 --> 00:22:34,906
Maybe they have good intentions, but like, it doesn't work.

393
00:22:34,916 --> 00:22:39,376
Certainly not as a global monetary standard and everything

394
00:22:39,376 --> 00:22:40,796
else has made a trade off.

395
00:22:41,056 --> 00:22:45,446
And yeah, I get contacted by, oh my gosh, during the bull run 2021,

396
00:22:45,456 --> 00:22:47,176
I'm sure you experienced this Knut.

397
00:22:47,206 --> 00:22:52,856
It's like every other DM is, you know, ICO, help my NFT,

398
00:22:52,856 --> 00:22:54,376
I'll give you X amount of money.

399
00:22:55,911 --> 00:22:59,871
It's like, oh my gosh, I'm not going to lead the sheep to the slaughterhouse.

400
00:23:00,051 --> 00:23:05,411
Um, I have, I never ever want to be in a place where I've recommended

401
00:23:05,411 --> 00:23:08,341
that someone invest in something and they lose all their money.

402
00:23:08,371 --> 00:23:10,171
I, that, that thought terrifies me.

403
00:23:10,171 --> 00:23:13,621
I would never be able to live with myself or look myself in the mirror.

404
00:23:13,621 --> 00:23:18,576
Um, You know, I grew up with a strong sense of ethics and morality and

405
00:23:18,576 --> 00:23:21,876
religion and faith, and I don't want to do anything that harms people.

406
00:23:21,886 --> 00:23:25,046
One of the reasons that I love Bitcoin is I think it can help the most

407
00:23:25,046 --> 00:23:26,866
amount of people of any technology.

408
00:23:27,186 --> 00:23:30,076
And of course, I hope that it helps good people because

409
00:23:30,076 --> 00:23:31,066
there are good and bad people.

410
00:23:31,656 --> 00:23:34,286
I hope good people, uh, I think most people are good.

411
00:23:34,366 --> 00:23:37,456
They adopt Bitcoin, but there are so many scammers out there.

412
00:23:37,821 --> 00:23:43,931
And impersonators and just people who are out to make a quick buck at your expense.

413
00:23:43,951 --> 00:23:46,381
And, you know, that's why we, we.

414
00:23:46,831 --> 00:23:50,051
Bang on the drum so much and say Bitcoin, not crypto.

415
00:23:51,696 --> 00:23:51,996
Yeah.

416
00:23:51,996 --> 00:23:56,506
And the scams are getting, uh, more sophisticated over time.

417
00:23:56,506 --> 00:24:01,786
Like now they're shit coining on Bitcoin with all this cat pictures, uh, like, uh,

418
00:24:02,426 --> 00:24:05,616
the ordinals all the, the spam going on.

419
00:24:05,616 --> 00:24:07,396
So what are your thoughts around that?

420
00:24:07,426 --> 00:24:08,731
Do you have any opinions on it?

421
00:24:09,071 --> 00:24:11,361
So I, I don't own any ordinals.

422
00:24:11,381 --> 00:24:12,581
I don't, I have to be honest.

423
00:24:12,581 --> 00:24:14,248
I don't follow it that closely.

424
00:24:14,298 --> 00:24:17,008
ultimate look, I'm not going to judge someone what's in their portfolio.

425
00:24:17,008 --> 00:24:19,548
I think that there are consequences to every decision.

426
00:24:19,578 --> 00:24:23,218
And I, I truly wish that we lived in a world where we

427
00:24:23,218 --> 00:24:25,958
had total free markets where.

428
00:24:26,653 --> 00:24:30,123
Everything, the free market was the referee and you were

429
00:24:30,133 --> 00:24:32,043
able to succeed or fail.

430
00:24:32,173 --> 00:24:35,723
And that was because of the consequences of your own decisions.

431
00:24:35,743 --> 00:24:39,073
So if someone wants to invest, like, I'm not going to sit there

432
00:24:39,073 --> 00:24:42,628
and Tell them you have to have your whole portfolio in Bitcoin.

433
00:24:42,658 --> 00:24:46,798
Um, but also I just, I don't understand why people decide to

434
00:24:46,798 --> 00:24:48,008
make some of these decisions.

435
00:24:48,008 --> 00:24:49,148
I don't fully get it.

436
00:24:49,498 --> 00:24:52,738
I just think Bitcoin is so beautiful and perfect the way that it is.

437
00:24:52,738 --> 00:24:55,068
And I hope more, more people focus on.

438
00:24:55,368 --> 00:24:58,628
Building amazing companies that serve the ecosystem.

439
00:24:59,008 --> 00:25:02,638
Um, I mean, I'm, I'm focused on what I know I can do and contribute,

440
00:25:02,638 --> 00:25:05,908
which is education and trying to get the message out and simplifying

441
00:25:05,918 --> 00:25:07,508
it for more of a general audience.

442
00:25:07,518 --> 00:25:09,448
So I'm, that's where I'm putting my energy.

443
00:25:09,808 --> 00:25:13,898
Uh, but I, I do think over the long run, it's, you know, things are

444
00:25:13,898 --> 00:25:16,118
created and most things don't work out.

445
00:25:16,118 --> 00:25:17,258
Most companies fail.

446
00:25:17,508 --> 00:25:20,658
And so I think a lot of these projects and, and things that are

447
00:25:20,658 --> 00:25:23,458
created on the margin, they just won't work out and it'll just.

448
00:25:24,153 --> 00:25:26,073
You know, they'll, they'll meet their destinies.

449
00:25:26,473 --> 00:25:28,533
Um, I'm just focusing on Bitcoin.

450
00:25:28,543 --> 00:25:31,933
The one thing outside of Bitcoin that I hope to have someday is a house.

451
00:25:31,973 --> 00:25:33,583
Like, and I'm very honest about that.

452
00:25:33,863 --> 00:25:38,353
I have not come to a place yet where I'm able to afford, like,

453
00:25:38,353 --> 00:25:41,393
the kind of house that I would love to have and raise a family.

454
00:25:41,433 --> 00:25:43,733
So I hope Bitcoin can help me with that.

455
00:25:43,983 --> 00:25:46,963
I hope I can, you know, maybe borrow against my Bitcoin

456
00:25:46,963 --> 00:25:48,053
so I don't have to sell it.

457
00:25:48,328 --> 00:25:52,108
But that's, that's my dream cause I, I want a roof over my head, you know,

458
00:25:52,138 --> 00:25:55,858
but, um, but other than that, I just, I'm not interested really in stocks and

459
00:25:55,918 --> 00:25:57,888
certainly not fixed income products.

460
00:25:57,888 --> 00:26:02,718
I think bonds are going to go, um, the way of, you know, Beanie Babies.

461
00:26:03,419 --> 00:26:08,359
maybe just to, uh, uh, one more thing about kind of the, the ordinals part here.

462
00:26:08,549 --> 00:26:11,729
I see you're coming at it from the investment angle, Natalie, but I think

463
00:26:11,739 --> 00:26:15,054
the, the, the thing that's had Knut and I a bit more, uh, concern and

464
00:26:15,054 --> 00:26:18,344
we've had a few people on to talk about this part is that the ordinals and

465
00:26:18,344 --> 00:26:22,194
related inscriptions and these sorts of things, they crowd out the block space.

466
00:26:22,214 --> 00:26:26,134
Actually, Adam Back had a good tweet today that says every ordinal crowds

467
00:26:26,134 --> 00:26:30,714
out 300 regular UTXO transactions on the on the blocks, right?

468
00:26:30,954 --> 00:26:32,264
So it's raised fees.

469
00:26:32,264 --> 00:26:36,614
Basically, it's created a fee floor that when we're talking about for new

470
00:26:36,614 --> 00:26:41,419
adopters, right, coming in with a fee environment that's Relatively high.

471
00:26:41,789 --> 00:26:43,549
What are your thoughts on that?

472
00:26:43,579 --> 00:26:47,399
Do you think that has any effect on new adopters coming into Bitcoin?

473
00:26:47,784 --> 00:26:51,554
Well, certainly, I actually think that this is a long term concern.

474
00:26:51,564 --> 00:26:54,944
I've done one episode about block scarcity.

475
00:26:54,974 --> 00:26:59,024
It was with Bob Burnett, who is just really great at articulating some of

476
00:26:59,024 --> 00:27:03,214
the future issues with this, because Bitcoin is not only scarce in its

477
00:27:03,224 --> 00:27:07,334
units, but it is scarce for a very, very important reason in how many

478
00:27:07,334 --> 00:27:10,874
transactions you can fit in a block, which is why we need scaling layers.

479
00:27:11,364 --> 00:27:16,654
And so absolutely, I mean, maybe down the road, uh, 10 years from now, you won't

480
00:27:16,654 --> 00:27:20,444
be able to easily transact on the base layer, and you do want to consolidate your

481
00:27:20,444 --> 00:27:23,954
UTXOs, which I want to do another episode on just to help walk people through

482
00:27:23,954 --> 00:27:27,214
that process, because it can be a little intimidating if you don't understand it,

483
00:27:27,574 --> 00:27:31,664
um, but certainly, yeah, I mean, I think fees are going to go up, I don't know all

484
00:27:31,664 --> 00:27:35,064
the technical components, I mean, again, I believe in free markets, so I think

485
00:27:35,064 --> 00:27:39,334
we should educate people about what's happening, but I, also don't want to, I

486
00:27:39,334 --> 00:27:42,384
don't think that there should be rules saying you can't do this or that, because

487
00:27:42,384 --> 00:27:48,379
I think ultimately the free market should, should Create a scenario where um, it

488
00:27:48,449 --> 00:27:51,209
cleanses some of this out of the system.

489
00:27:51,539 --> 00:27:55,969
Someone posted a meme, and I don't know if you guys saw it or agree with it, but it

490
00:27:55,969 --> 00:28:03,089
was like, you know, high fees create, it was kind of the hard times create strong

491
00:28:03,099 --> 00:28:05,519
men, strong men create weak, whatever.

492
00:28:05,708 --> 00:28:09,758
It was like a self regulating, like, okay, fees become too high, so transactions

493
00:28:09,758 --> 00:28:11,478
accrue, and then the fees become higher.

494
00:28:11,508 --> 00:28:12,508
It's like a circle.

495
00:28:12,518 --> 00:28:13,578
So that's my hope.

496
00:28:13,878 --> 00:28:16,598
I know that it's not perfect, but that's my hope.

497
00:28:16,598 --> 00:28:20,468
I'm not here to just, you know, tell people what to do, and essentially, you

498
00:28:20,468 --> 00:28:25,148
know, Bitcoin Satoshi didn't prevent something like this from, from happening,

499
00:28:25,178 --> 00:28:28,688
so I just don't under I just I guess it's just like, I don't understand some of it.

500
00:28:28,688 --> 00:28:31,078
Like, why do you want a picture of a frog?

501
00:28:31,471 --> 00:28:37,531
Well, well, I think that's a very, uh, like, good position to have, like, I, I

502
00:28:37,721 --> 00:28:43,401
feel the same about, you know, focusing your attention on bad actors in general.

503
00:28:43,701 --> 00:28:47,911
So whenever you retweet, uh, look, look here how stupid Shitboy and

504
00:28:47,911 --> 00:28:52,191
Crap, Shitboy Crapto was here by, when he did this stupid thing.

505
00:28:52,951 --> 00:28:56,311
All you do is you give these people attention and it's the same with

506
00:28:56,331 --> 00:29:01,031
like, look how stupid Joe Biden is or how stupid Donald Trump is.

507
00:29:01,391 --> 00:29:05,781
Whoever, whoever your perceived enemy turns out to be, like when you

508
00:29:05,781 --> 00:29:09,661
focus your attention on, it's like what Jeff Booth talks about, your

509
00:29:09,661 --> 00:29:11,971
reality becomes what you focus on.

510
00:29:12,241 --> 00:29:16,751
So like focusing on positive things and building things and being optimistic.

511
00:29:17,181 --> 00:29:21,591
is often way, way, way more constructive than, than fighting pointless battles.

512
00:29:21,611 --> 00:29:23,761
It's all about hill to die on picking, right?

513
00:29:23,781 --> 00:29:26,671
And there are so many bad hill to die on pickers out there.

514
00:29:27,056 --> 00:29:27,876
I love this.

515
00:29:27,976 --> 00:29:31,266
This is what I try to do actively, actually, because when you're in this

516
00:29:31,266 --> 00:29:33,866
space, some of it can be like a magnet.

517
00:29:33,866 --> 00:29:36,206
You're drawn into these negative conversations.

518
00:29:36,596 --> 00:29:41,256
I really try to listen to what Jeff Booth says, and Michael Saylor has talked about

519
00:29:41,256 --> 00:29:42,856
it too, you know, keep your lasers on.

520
00:29:43,196 --> 00:29:46,266
You don't have to be against ordinals to be for Bitcoin.

521
00:29:46,476 --> 00:29:48,526
You don't have to be against this candidate or that

522
00:29:48,526 --> 00:29:49,896
candidate to be for Bitcoin.

523
00:29:49,916 --> 00:29:52,926
You don't even have to be against CBDCs to be for, you could just be for

524
00:29:52,936 --> 00:29:56,976
Bitcoin and focus all of your energy on helping people understand this, getting

525
00:29:56,976 --> 00:30:01,686
people onboarded and just like what problems Bitcoin addresses and fixes.

526
00:30:01,686 --> 00:30:03,646
And that's where I'm putting my focus.

527
00:30:03,666 --> 00:30:08,106
So a lot of the other things on the side, it's just, it's noise and conversations

528
00:30:08,106 --> 00:30:10,946
that you could get lost in that aren't productive at the end of the day.

529
00:30:11,608 --> 00:30:14,528
Yeah, and, and, there are other people who are taking these

530
00:30:14,528 --> 00:30:16,548
fights, like Luke Dash Jr.

531
00:30:16,558 --> 00:30:21,728
and, uh, and, uh, Mechanic and Bob Burnett and whatnot, and That's all fine.

532
00:30:21,968 --> 00:30:28,188
So, uh, but yeah, I think our, like, your attention and, and my attention are

533
00:30:28,188 --> 00:30:31,128
better focused on doing optimistic things.

534
00:30:31,128 --> 00:30:35,508
I, I think that's where, where we fit in both of us or all three of us.

535
00:31:44,297 --> 00:31:46,787
Maybe we can talk a little bit about OrangePillApp.

536
00:31:46,787 --> 00:31:49,327
What are you excited about on the OrangePillApp side, Natalie?

537
00:31:50,047 --> 00:31:50,227
Yeah.

538
00:31:50,467 --> 00:31:51,397
I mean, what a cool app.

539
00:31:52,057 --> 00:31:56,887
I love that it recently, um, they just launched the merchants feature.

540
00:31:56,897 --> 00:32:02,077
I just hope that more and more businesses get out there, allow, customers and

541
00:32:02,077 --> 00:32:05,927
consumers to know that they exist and that they take Bitcoin and to support them.

542
00:32:06,227 --> 00:32:07,357
I actually, you know, it's funny.

543
00:32:07,397 --> 00:32:12,232
One of the last stories I did in my news job before I left, There

544
00:32:12,232 --> 00:32:16,952
was a local burger shop in Orange County, California, very close

545
00:32:16,952 --> 00:32:19,152
to LA, and they accepted Bitcoin.

546
00:32:19,172 --> 00:32:23,202
And it was a cool story because it was actually the father who orange pilled

547
00:32:23,212 --> 00:32:25,502
the son, and they operated this burger.

548
00:32:25,502 --> 00:32:27,942
It was like a Greek burger shop together.

549
00:32:28,332 --> 00:32:31,572
And, um, I mean, I think about it now because that was when

550
00:32:31,572 --> 00:32:35,102
Bitcoin was like Very high 55, 60.

551
00:32:35,102 --> 00:32:36,172
So they were making a lot.

552
00:32:36,172 --> 00:32:38,902
I think their, I think their Bitcoin income has gone down since

553
00:32:38,902 --> 00:32:41,232
then, but I know they're hodlers and it was a really cool story.

554
00:32:41,232 --> 00:32:45,142
It's just exciting when you can go in and I did a full story on how customers

555
00:32:45,142 --> 00:32:49,512
were coming in and paying with their wallets and how amazing, how amazing that.

556
00:32:49,972 --> 00:32:53,532
We have a technology that can empower people to do global business

557
00:32:53,572 --> 00:32:57,102
at the speed of light with no fees and no middlemen involved.

558
00:32:57,102 --> 00:33:00,372
And I just, I think that it's super cool that Orange Pill

559
00:33:00,372 --> 00:33:01,712
App is helping connect people.

560
00:33:02,102 --> 00:33:04,482
Um, I love the social component.

561
00:33:04,482 --> 00:33:05,902
I moved to a new city.

562
00:33:06,122 --> 00:33:07,412
Last year, a year ago.

563
00:33:07,472 --> 00:33:10,662
So it was hard for me to meet new people at first.

564
00:33:10,662 --> 00:33:12,082
I didn't know a lot of people here.

565
00:33:12,082 --> 00:33:15,112
And so orange pill app helped me connect with other Bitcoiners in

566
00:33:15,112 --> 00:33:16,462
the area, which has been really fun.

567
00:33:16,462 --> 00:33:19,552
And now I'm sort of tapped into a local Bitcoin community.

568
00:33:19,972 --> 00:33:24,577
And I host events that I've posted on Orange pill app, like

569
00:33:24,577 --> 00:33:25,977
the women in Bitcoin events.

570
00:33:25,977 --> 00:33:28,937
I'm going to have one in Bitcoin Atlantis in Madeira in a couple weeks.

571
00:33:28,947 --> 00:33:32,477
So if people are interested, that's free to attend and you can head to orange

572
00:33:32,477 --> 00:33:34,347
pill app and there's a sign up there.

573
00:33:34,347 --> 00:33:36,047
You can register again all for free.

574
00:33:36,047 --> 00:33:39,937
So it's just a great app for people to connect and, and, you know, create

575
00:33:39,937 --> 00:33:45,017
this environment of a very, um, robust social layer on Bitcoin and Bitcoiners

576
00:33:45,017 --> 00:33:46,587
are fun to be around, you know.

577
00:33:47,397 --> 00:33:51,117
I know a whole bunch of wifeys that are going to that, uh, lunch.

578
00:33:52,446 --> 00:33:52,576
Perfect.

579
00:33:53,352 --> 00:33:54,772
Because it's not a branch, right?

580
00:33:55,496 --> 00:33:56,086
It's a brunch.

581
00:33:56,672 --> 00:33:57,452
It IS a branch.

582
00:33:57,846 --> 00:33:59,266
yeah, we are so grateful.

583
00:33:59,296 --> 00:34:03,136
Um, I have to give a shout out to Fred Thiel and Marathon, um,

584
00:34:03,156 --> 00:34:04,736
because they are sponsoring it.

585
00:34:04,766 --> 00:34:07,706
So actually we do get to do a brunch.

586
00:34:07,706 --> 00:34:08,676
It's going to be beautiful.

587
00:34:08,686 --> 00:34:13,396
It's going to be at the Museu Café in Madeira and really looking forward to it.

588
00:34:13,426 --> 00:34:14,836
So I hope people sign up.

589
00:34:15,432 --> 00:34:16,992
But there is no second breakfast.

590
00:34:17,602 --> 00:34:18,832
There is no second breakfast.

591
00:34:21,306 --> 00:34:23,506
You can skip your breakfast, just do brunch with us.

592
00:34:24,642 --> 00:34:25,282
Alright then.

593
00:34:25,542 --> 00:34:28,712
Alright, the, the, museo, the, uh, okay.

594
00:34:29,112 --> 00:34:29,932
Where is that?

595
00:34:30,402 --> 00:34:30,632
Uh

596
00:34:30,756 --> 00:34:33,016
not, it's not far from the conference venue.

597
00:34:33,176 --> 00:34:33,916
Yeah, very close.

598
00:34:34,352 --> 00:34:38,712
Alright, now, most things aren't very far in Funchal, but they can

599
00:34:38,712 --> 00:34:42,912
take a lot of time to get to anyway, because it's very, very hilly

600
00:34:43,336 --> 00:34:43,836
Oh, okay.

601
00:34:43,932 --> 00:34:44,332
steep.

602
00:34:44,696 --> 00:34:46,456
I've seen videos online.

603
00:34:46,456 --> 00:34:48,736
It looks like, I mean, it just looks gorgeous.

604
00:34:48,766 --> 00:34:49,636
I can't wait to go.

605
00:34:49,636 --> 00:34:50,366
I've never been.

606
00:34:51,072 --> 00:34:53,412
It's a literal paradise, you're gonna love it, like, you're gonna, you're

607
00:34:53,412 --> 00:34:57,392
gonna buy a house there instead of in the US, and you're gonna get

608
00:34:57,392 --> 00:34:58,672
so much more bang for your buck.

609
00:34:58,986 --> 00:35:00,326
I am not opposed.

610
00:35:00,586 --> 00:35:01,606
I'm not opposed to that.

611
00:35:01,656 --> 00:35:03,046
I'm kind of questioning

612
00:35:03,217 --> 00:35:08,337
yeah, I see this future happening already, like, this is, uh, absolutely, because,

613
00:35:08,679 --> 00:35:09,709
You know, it's crazy.

614
00:35:09,709 --> 00:35:11,389
I mean, I think about this sometimes.

615
00:35:11,439 --> 00:35:15,879
My parents literally dreamt of coming to the United States their whole lives.

616
00:35:15,919 --> 00:35:19,019
When they were young, they would tell me stories of how, um, at the time

617
00:35:19,019 --> 00:35:23,569
they were on a different currency, the Polish zloty, and everything

618
00:35:23,619 --> 00:35:25,709
that they wanted was made in America.

619
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:26,879
They wanted jeans.

620
00:35:26,899 --> 00:35:28,969
They wanted American movies.

621
00:35:28,989 --> 00:35:33,269
Like my mom grew up on American films and music and like everything that

622
00:35:33,269 --> 00:35:34,859
was great and wonderful and inspiring.

623
00:35:34,939 --> 00:35:41,269
Firing and, and representative of like, hope and freedom was American.

624
00:35:41,629 --> 00:35:45,289
And now they come, they've come here, they've been here for uh, you know,

625
00:35:45,289 --> 00:35:47,449
several decades now, three decades.

626
00:35:47,889 --> 00:35:50,349
And they're like, why did we come here?

627
00:35:50,354 --> 00:35:50,404
Like.

628
00:35:51,159 --> 00:35:54,579
Their peers in Poland are retiring with better lives.

629
00:35:54,749 --> 00:35:58,579
Um, it was really hard for them to recover from the financial crisis.

630
00:35:58,619 --> 00:36:01,609
Cause they, again, they were now in their fifties having to start over.

631
00:36:01,609 --> 00:36:04,979
They lost their house and it was such a hard time for them.

632
00:36:05,009 --> 00:36:09,129
And I just, it's crazy to think that they dreamt of coming here for all

633
00:36:09,129 --> 00:36:11,769
these freedoms and hope and opportunity.

634
00:36:11,799 --> 00:36:16,369
And what if I end up moving, you know, somewhere else because it's changed

635
00:36:16,369 --> 00:36:18,229
so much and all those things were.

636
00:36:18,759 --> 00:36:21,229
Nearly a mirage at this point.

637
00:36:22,319 --> 00:36:26,909
yeah, it's, it's so, it's, like, tragedy of the commons, or whatever you call it,

638
00:36:26,909 --> 00:36:32,489
like, the, uh, human beings seem to do, make the same mistake over and over again

639
00:36:32,509 --> 00:36:37,839
when it comes to nation states, because, like, oh, Nazism was bad, it was really,

640
00:36:37,839 --> 00:36:41,659
really bad, we don't want that again, and, like, oh, the Soviet Union was bad, we

641
00:36:41,659 --> 00:36:46,524
don't want that again, no And then we just do the same thing over and over again.

642
00:36:46,924 --> 00:36:52,494
We keep on making the same mistake and, uh, keep trusting politicians and keep

643
00:36:52,584 --> 00:36:57,674
like, uh, hailing democracy as the big thing, even though the word democracy is

644
00:36:57,684 --> 00:36:59,814
not in the American constitution at all.

645
00:37:00,094 --> 00:37:01,854
Like it's all about property rights.

646
00:37:02,144 --> 00:37:08,154
So like people have the completely, completely the wrong angle and,

647
00:37:08,204 --> 00:37:10,434
you know, mix up cause and effect.

648
00:37:11,179 --> 00:37:14,019
And they've, they've, they've changed the meanings of some of

649
00:37:14,019 --> 00:37:15,789
these words and weaponized them.

650
00:37:15,809 --> 00:37:20,479
And I don't know if you heard the recent Russell Brand interview on Tucker Carlson.

651
00:37:21,329 --> 00:37:22,559
It was fascinating.

652
00:37:23,159 --> 00:37:25,409
He made some really great points.

653
00:37:25,409 --> 00:37:30,119
He talked about how this time around, authoritarianism, fascism, it's not

654
00:37:30,119 --> 00:37:34,369
going to come in the form of scary men with mustaches, it's going to come in

655
00:37:34,369 --> 00:37:37,709
the form of a businesswoman that comes in and says, we're here to protect

656
00:37:37,709 --> 00:37:41,709
you, we're here to do this for you, so that it's your safety, it's your

657
00:37:41,709 --> 00:37:46,899
convenience, I was like, oh my god, that is so, so true, and it's crazy because

658
00:37:46,899 --> 00:37:51,189
we do have to kind of awaken people and empower them more because I think so

659
00:37:51,189 --> 00:37:53,199
many people I don't know what it is.

660
00:37:53,199 --> 00:37:56,009
It's like, I don't, I don't believe that most people are brainwashed.

661
00:37:56,009 --> 00:37:59,729
It's just, that they're not presented with enough information and the correct

662
00:37:59,729 --> 00:38:04,409
information, especially about how our financial system works, so that they can

663
00:38:04,429 --> 00:38:08,269
actually vote in the right people or make, you know, become sovereign themselves.

664
00:38:08,269 --> 00:38:13,114
It's like they, They're, they're kind of, um, blindfolded or like

665
00:38:13,124 --> 00:38:17,644
walking towards this total control mentality where no, this is

666
00:38:17,644 --> 00:38:19,544
actually for the good of everybody.

667
00:38:19,544 --> 00:38:20,564
This is what's kind.

668
00:38:20,574 --> 00:38:23,054
This is what's altruistic when at the end of the day, you're

669
00:38:23,054 --> 00:38:26,784
basically stripped of everything that it truly means to be human.

670
00:38:27,034 --> 00:38:31,194
To be free, to make your own decisions, to, you know, to have property

671
00:38:31,194 --> 00:38:32,914
rights and have those be protected.

672
00:38:32,914 --> 00:38:34,694
It's like, it's crazy.

673
00:38:34,734 --> 00:38:37,264
Um, I've really, I have so much hope for Bitcoin.

674
00:38:37,294 --> 00:38:40,024
I think it came at just the right time in humanity because

675
00:38:40,034 --> 00:38:41,874
we need it more than ever.

676
00:38:41,874 --> 00:38:45,159
We're going down a very potentially scary path without it.

677
00:38:46,254 --> 00:38:47,064
Absolutely.

678
00:38:47,454 --> 00:38:49,384
It's like, bah, bah, everywhere.

679
00:38:49,714 --> 00:38:55,079
Like they, uh, I, yeah, funny I should say that like, the corruption of words,

680
00:38:55,449 --> 00:39:01,284
I'm now reading or listening to Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, uh, and

681
00:39:01,664 --> 00:39:07,774
1984 is one of my favorite books, and I hadn't read Brave New World before,

682
00:39:07,774 --> 00:39:12,344
so I figured I'd plow through that, because I need sort of both these books.

683
00:39:12,644 --> 00:39:17,094
And it's so true, those two books, they're like, the politicians seem to

684
00:39:17,934 --> 00:39:21,434
think that they were written as manuals, because we're getting all of that.

685
00:39:21,434 --> 00:39:26,479
We're getting a ministry of love, and a ministry of truth, and all of that.

686
00:39:27,039 --> 00:39:27,899
Yeah, it's awful.

687
00:39:28,252 --> 00:39:33,444
I really love Jeff Booth's writing about some of this because he talks about the

688
00:39:33,444 --> 00:39:38,334
reality of how when people do feel such desperation and they're frustrated,

689
00:39:38,334 --> 00:39:40,004
they're looking for places to blame.

690
00:39:40,274 --> 00:39:45,584
You see instances of populism rising and they actually vote in the very thing

691
00:39:45,704 --> 00:39:47,644
that is hurting and crushing them, right?

692
00:39:47,644 --> 00:39:48,834
They're like, give me more money.

693
00:39:48,834 --> 00:39:52,954
Give me more handouts, redistribute the wealth, intervene, intervene, intervene.

694
00:39:53,184 --> 00:39:55,004
And it's like, that is the very thing that's going to.

695
00:39:55,094 --> 00:39:59,634
cause the whole system to crumble and the other thing I love that he points

696
00:39:59,634 --> 00:40:04,584
out is I feel like sometimes when I've talked about Bitcoin and capitalism to

697
00:40:04,584 --> 00:40:08,214
people who are very educated and maybe they're successful within the fiat world,

698
00:40:08,214 --> 00:40:12,974
they're like, hello, this is the credit is the reason that we've been able to

699
00:40:12,974 --> 00:40:17,604
achieve such prosperity and like, this is the reason why so many people over

700
00:40:17,604 --> 00:40:22,174
the last century have been lifted out of poverty and you're, you know, people in

701
00:40:22,174 --> 00:40:25,114
America have the houses that they have in the middle class, blah, blah, blah.

702
00:40:25,619 --> 00:40:29,969
It's so interesting because they're missing two very important,

703
00:40:30,739 --> 00:40:32,249
I think, points and lessons.

704
00:40:32,259 --> 00:40:38,299
Number one being that we, the US, had such an immense privilege becoming the global

705
00:40:38,299 --> 00:40:42,279
reserve currency that they were able to export all of the devastating effects

706
00:40:42,639 --> 00:40:44,909
of inflation to so many other places.

707
00:40:44,939 --> 00:40:45,829
That's number one.

708
00:40:45,829 --> 00:40:48,529
And then that slowly ended up hollowing out the middle class.

709
00:40:49,105 --> 00:40:53,775
But number two, it's kind of like putting an athlete on steroids.

710
00:40:54,205 --> 00:40:55,175
It's like, yeah, the.

711
00:40:55,485 --> 00:40:59,545
Short term effects are amazing, and they can run faster than everyone, and

712
00:40:59,545 --> 00:41:03,555
they can finish the race, and like, they can become almost supernaturally

713
00:41:03,615 --> 00:41:05,935
talented, but it will not last.

714
00:41:06,045 --> 00:41:07,115
It's unsustainable.

715
00:41:07,145 --> 00:41:10,745
You, you will need consistently more steroids until the athlete completely

716
00:41:10,745 --> 00:41:13,325
collapses, because that's not natural.

717
00:41:13,355 --> 00:41:14,815
It's not a natural growth.

718
00:41:14,815 --> 00:41:18,045
It's not natural productivity that should flow to the public with

719
00:41:18,045 --> 00:41:19,635
the form of deflation of prices.

720
00:41:19,635 --> 00:41:25,105
Like, people are People are convinced that this artificial system that

721
00:41:25,105 --> 00:41:28,205
we've created is one that creates wealth because we've seen so many

722
00:41:28,205 --> 00:41:32,655
rich people when it's actually the thing that has crushed so many people.

723
00:41:32,685 --> 00:41:37,885
And I think that we haven't had some of some of the amazing innovations

724
00:41:37,885 --> 00:41:42,375
or entrepreneurship companies or, um, I don't know, just solutions

725
00:41:42,405 --> 00:41:46,625
to the problems that could have happened if we had hard, sound money.

726
00:41:47,333 --> 00:41:52,283
Yeah, uh, so true, and we've heard so many good analogies for, for, uh, for this

727
00:41:52,283 --> 00:41:58,793
stuff on this pod, but I love that, that it's, uh, an athlete, uh, taking steroids.

728
00:41:59,053 --> 00:42:01,653
Like, we've heard, uh, who was that, Angelo Summers, who

729
00:42:01,693 --> 00:42:03,253
said it's like a meth addict.

730
00:42:04,658 --> 00:42:07,848
Digging a hole in his backyard and it's coming, telling

731
00:42:07,848 --> 00:42:09,888
everyone, look at this hole I dug.

732
00:42:10,368 --> 00:42:12,218
Yeah, but what are you going to use the hole for?

733
00:42:12,218 --> 00:42:17,348
And that's like a metaphor for the state spending beyond their means.

734
00:42:17,468 --> 00:42:22,808
And what was that, Ray Yusuf, the financial apartheid thing?

735
00:42:23,168 --> 00:42:27,348
That's, that's what it is, like we're exporting, it's basically

736
00:42:27,378 --> 00:42:30,398
modern day in slavery, exporting debt to other countries.

737
00:42:31,638 --> 00:42:37,628
It's, it's sort of, but the analogy there is when the Nazis came to power, uh, the

738
00:42:37,628 --> 00:42:41,788
first few years, everything seemed fine because they had slave labor in camps.

739
00:42:42,248 --> 00:42:48,178
And, in a way, the world still does, like, but the camp is Africa and South America.

740
00:42:48,398 --> 00:42:53,348
We're like, uh, and, and the, you know, low income countries,

741
00:42:53,498 --> 00:42:55,988
uh, which we export the debt to.

742
00:42:56,268 --> 00:42:59,568
So, it's, it's kind of awful, uh, or it is awful.

743
00:43:00,438 --> 00:43:01,098
Truly awful.

744
00:43:01,448 --> 00:43:01,868
I know.

745
00:43:01,868 --> 00:43:05,268
I think, thank goodness for people like Alex Gladstein that shine light

746
00:43:05,318 --> 00:43:08,828
on some of these issues and what the IMF does and the World Bank because

747
00:43:08,878 --> 00:43:12,058
again, before Bitcoin, I had no clue because we're not taught this.

748
00:43:12,058 --> 00:43:14,418
We're not presented this information in the media.

749
00:43:14,418 --> 00:43:16,328
We have to kind of seek it out on our own.

750
00:43:16,328 --> 00:43:20,278
And, uh, I don't know, I don't know about you guys, but one thing that I've

751
00:43:20,278 --> 00:43:24,178
experienced just within my own life and my peer group and the friends that I want

752
00:43:24,178 --> 00:43:27,758
to orange pill, it's like, it's like, They almost think that sometimes I'm

753
00:43:27,768 --> 00:43:32,168
pessimistic about how I view the world, like, like I'm trying to find some sort

754
00:43:32,168 --> 00:43:36,498
of conspiracy theory explanation for why things are happening, whereas they truly

755
00:43:36,498 --> 00:43:41,668
believe that the people who are leading these organizations, the banks, the, uh,

756
00:43:41,678 --> 00:43:44,968
the government in general, like, they're good people, they're trying to come in

757
00:43:44,968 --> 00:43:49,258
and help people, they're trying to, um, you know, empower the disenfranchised,

758
00:43:49,258 --> 00:43:50,228
they're trying to help people.

759
00:43:50,343 --> 00:43:53,303
Poor countries, it's like, it's like they're totally backwards and to

760
00:43:53,303 --> 00:43:57,283
peel back those layers and help them understand and get on our page, it's

761
00:43:57,313 --> 00:44:01,423
very difficult because sometimes they have to be willing to unlearn

762
00:44:01,453 --> 00:44:06,483
certain things and be challenged with their most deeply held beliefs and

763
00:44:06,483 --> 00:44:08,023
not everybody's willing to do that.

764
00:44:08,764 --> 00:44:11,194
No, absolutely, like, yeah.

765
00:44:11,524 --> 00:44:17,634
And this is one thing, it's getting increasingly hard to, to stay, to have a

766
00:44:17,634 --> 00:44:24,359
normal conversation with a normie friend anymore, since they're like But slowly

767
00:44:24,359 --> 00:44:26,239
but surely they will figure it out.

768
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:30,639
I think a lot, I know that a lot of people had their wake up call during

769
00:44:30,639 --> 00:44:34,699
the lockdowns and everything when, when, when basically every country

770
00:44:34,699 --> 00:44:41,679
on earth became, went totally bonkers and started doing draconian things.

771
00:44:42,594 --> 00:44:48,394
Uh, so, and some people still think they did the best they could, and they're still

772
00:44:48,394 --> 00:44:50,084
giving everyone the benefit of the doubt.

773
00:44:50,094 --> 00:44:53,844
I think that's the majority, because the majority are behaving like sheep.

774
00:44:54,094 --> 00:44:59,184
Um, but, but still, a lot of Bitcoiners were born during those years.

775
00:44:59,244 --> 00:45:05,604
I know of quite a few, and quite a few that are now orange pilled hard.

776
00:45:05,634 --> 00:45:08,724
I mean, they really, okay, this is the thing.

777
00:45:09,004 --> 00:45:10,984
They really got it during this period.

778
00:45:11,334 --> 00:45:16,339
And I think, like Uh, yeah, a critical mass, uh, of Bitcoiners is closer than

779
00:45:16,339 --> 00:45:20,339
people think because like when you can see now when we're going to Madeira

780
00:45:20,339 --> 00:45:24,229
here, you've, you've seen the tweets as well, I guess, about all these places

781
00:45:24,249 --> 00:45:29,799
that are suddenly starting to accept Bitcoins, like pharmacies and, uh, you

782
00:45:29,799 --> 00:45:34,269
know, um, uh, hairdressers and what, whatnot, a lot of brick and mortar

783
00:45:34,269 --> 00:45:38,479
stores on Madeira starting because they all want to Get a piece of the

784
00:45:38,479 --> 00:45:42,599
cake when the conference happens and there's a big buzz around everything.

785
00:45:43,069 --> 00:45:47,879
And that thing, I mean, why would they stop accepting Bitcoin?

786
00:45:47,889 --> 00:45:48,799
It's so simple.

787
00:45:48,809 --> 00:45:52,239
Like, just have an app on your phone and you're ready to go.

788
00:45:52,919 --> 00:45:57,484
Uh, so it's And the thing is, that thing happening there is helping Bitcoin

789
00:45:57,844 --> 00:46:03,763
and Bitcoiners everywhere else in the world with these, these little oasis,

790
00:46:03,944 --> 00:46:10,174
oasis, oasi, oasis, oasis, uh, around the world are, are, are like helping

791
00:46:10,174 --> 00:46:11,984
each other without even knowing it.

792
00:46:12,084 --> 00:46:13,574
It's beautiful.

793
00:46:14,204 --> 00:46:14,614
I know.

794
00:46:14,884 --> 00:46:15,404
I love it.

795
00:46:15,424 --> 00:46:15,654
I know.

796
00:46:15,654 --> 00:46:16,694
It's really inspiring.

797
00:46:16,714 --> 00:46:21,584
I can't wait to see what happens in the next major bull run because, I mean,

798
00:46:21,584 --> 00:46:25,324
both of you guys already know you've been, you've been around, uh, when

799
00:46:25,324 --> 00:46:29,494
number goes up, there's no more powerful narrative for all the newbies to come

800
00:46:29,494 --> 00:46:32,444
out and say, wait, what, what was this thing that you were talking about?

801
00:46:33,154 --> 00:46:34,414
So hopefully we'll see that soon.

802
00:46:34,424 --> 00:46:34,914
But it's funny.

803
00:46:34,914 --> 00:46:36,474
I mean, I'm sure you guys feel this way too.

804
00:46:36,474 --> 00:46:39,034
I'm like, no, I don't want the price to go up yet.

805
00:46:39,034 --> 00:46:39,434
Please.

806
00:46:39,434 --> 00:46:40,474
I'm still stacking.

807
00:46:40,474 --> 00:46:41,154
I'm behind.

808
00:46:41,234 --> 00:46:42,083
I mean,

809
00:46:43,274 --> 00:46:47,934
Yeah, it's a, it's a double edged sword on a double sided coin.

810
00:46:47,934 --> 00:46:51,274
I guess we, we both want number go down and number go up.

811
00:46:51,294 --> 00:46:52,104
They're both good.

812
00:46:52,499 --> 00:46:57,169
If you tackle it from the right perspective, like, um, so yeah.

813
00:46:57,169 --> 00:46:59,359
What about price predictions and stuff?

814
00:46:59,359 --> 00:47:06,579
I, I know you don't really do that, but like, uh, I, I don't see Bitcoin

815
00:47:06,579 --> 00:47:10,719
going to a hundred K and then staying around there for a while like that.

816
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,159
That's not what Bitcoin does.

817
00:47:12,189 --> 00:47:17,409
When, whenever we break an old, old time high for real, things go mental

818
00:47:17,409 --> 00:47:19,719
for a while, , and then it drops again.

819
00:47:19,989 --> 00:47:20,559
So like.

820
00:47:21,069 --> 00:47:25,239
20x's and then drops 80 percent down to 200k or something.

821
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,549
But before that, we go to a million and then we go down.

822
00:47:27,989 --> 00:47:29,359
So that's how I see it.

823
00:47:29,359 --> 00:47:31,439
Like that's how the old cycles have been.

824
00:47:31,889 --> 00:47:35,919
And I don't see anything else happen because that's just how markets work.

825
00:47:35,949 --> 00:47:37,339
Like people get FOMO.

826
00:47:37,369 --> 00:47:39,869
And so how do you see that?

827
00:47:41,764 --> 00:47:46,624
I just think that Bitcoin's destiny is to climb higher and higher in every

828
00:47:46,624 --> 00:47:49,024
currency, definitely six figures in U.

829
00:47:49,024 --> 00:47:49,174
S.

830
00:47:49,174 --> 00:47:51,324
dollars, some, someday seven figures.

831
00:47:51,324 --> 00:47:51,984
I don't know when.

832
00:47:51,984 --> 00:47:55,964
I feel like it's pretty exciting to think that could happen in the next 10 years.

833
00:47:56,184 --> 00:47:57,534
Like some people are predicting.

834
00:47:57,554 --> 00:48:02,263
Kathy Wood, her, you know, bullish case for 2030 is a 1.

835
00:48:02,263 --> 00:48:03,674
2 million dollar Bitcoin.

836
00:48:04,124 --> 00:48:05,034
Here's what I think about.

837
00:48:05,034 --> 00:48:05,404
I don't have

838
00:48:05,409 --> 00:48:08,009
Samson, Samson made a prediction.

839
00:48:08,179 --> 00:48:08,529
Yeah.

840
00:48:09,104 --> 00:48:09,734
Here's the thing.

841
00:48:09,754 --> 00:48:11,314
I, so I don't make price predictions.

842
00:48:11,314 --> 00:48:12,564
I know it's going higher.

843
00:48:12,614 --> 00:48:15,354
This is where I want to have my long term savings.

844
00:48:15,604 --> 00:48:18,604
This is what I wonder about in the short run.

845
00:48:19,684 --> 00:48:25,014
I think that we're at this really interesting inflection point with

846
00:48:25,274 --> 00:48:30,094
the US sort of in this, like, it's in its twilight days in

847
00:48:30,094 --> 00:48:32,064
terms of being the superpower.

848
00:48:32,729 --> 00:48:39,419
And having its money wield as much power as it does, we're seeing a a fractioning

849
00:48:39,429 --> 00:48:43,859
of other nation states now returning to potentially doing transactions in other

850
00:48:43,859 --> 00:48:49,389
currencies, adding more gold to the central bank reserves, um, I'm surprised

851
00:48:49,389 --> 00:48:51,059
that we haven't seen more nation states.

852
00:48:51,584 --> 00:48:53,894
Legalize Bitcoin the way that El Salvador did.

853
00:48:53,894 --> 00:48:56,834
I thought that at least one other, you know, maybe developing nation might

854
00:48:56,834 --> 00:49:00,984
have done that by now, but we just see this de-globalization in many ways.

855
00:49:00,984 --> 00:49:04,124
It's like there are multiple forces that are coming together.

856
00:49:04,124 --> 00:49:08,824
On the one hand, the powers that be, they want to, you know, concentrate

857
00:49:08,824 --> 00:49:12,424
as much of that power as possible and get everyone under their umbrella.

858
00:49:12,704 --> 00:49:15,604
But at the same time, because of technology and many different

859
00:49:16,294 --> 00:49:21,419
formats There's this push towards decentralization and Bitcoin obviously

860
00:49:21,429 --> 00:49:22,879
being one of those technologies.

861
00:49:23,399 --> 00:49:27,149
And I think a lot of those forces are going to meet in the next couple of years.

862
00:49:27,199 --> 00:49:33,679
And we're so far in debt that I don't see how we avoid a sovereign debt crisis

863
00:49:33,779 --> 00:49:38,029
where people just start dumping US treasuries and rates go through the roof.

864
00:49:38,299 --> 00:49:42,499
And there is this like panic where they have to step in and do something very.

865
00:49:42,874 --> 00:49:47,734
Serious, very intense, you know, yield curve control, um, just anything to

866
00:49:47,814 --> 00:49:50,044
kind of cut off the exit ramps, right?

867
00:49:50,054 --> 00:49:51,464
Bitcoin's an exit ramp.

868
00:49:51,464 --> 00:49:54,054
It's an escape hatch for a failing system.

869
00:49:54,644 --> 00:50:00,224
So just, I wonder what's going to happen when the system starts to crumble again.

870
00:50:00,284 --> 00:50:03,979
I know everyone says, they're just going to Put the money printer in like they

871
00:50:03,979 --> 00:50:05,689
can only do that so many more times.

872
00:50:05,689 --> 00:50:06,729
Maybe it's one more time.

873
00:50:06,739 --> 00:50:08,019
Maybe it's two more times.

874
00:50:08,039 --> 00:50:11,889
I don't think it's 10 more times before the system totally implodes.

875
00:50:12,813 --> 00:50:18,589
so I wonder what Bitcoin will do in that scenario because I think that temporarily

876
00:50:18,649 --> 00:50:20,939
the price could suffer a lot, right?

877
00:50:20,959 --> 00:50:23,719
And great opportunity for those who understand Bitcoin.

878
00:50:25,094 --> 00:50:26,504
Or will it decouple?

879
00:50:26,814 --> 00:50:31,194
Will it just totally serve as this, like, you know, everyone goes to it the way

880
00:50:31,194 --> 00:50:33,524
that maybe historically they fled to gold?

881
00:50:34,194 --> 00:50:38,004
Will it be a hedge to the failing credit risk and the financial

882
00:50:38,004 --> 00:50:39,274
system kind of pulling apart?

883
00:50:39,594 --> 00:50:40,074
I don't know.

884
00:50:40,074 --> 00:50:44,684
Like, I think that the next 5 years are going to be dramatic, intense,

885
00:50:45,264 --> 00:50:48,474
Conflict ridden, um, you know, political.

886
00:50:48,494 --> 00:50:49,414
I don't know.

887
00:50:49,414 --> 00:50:52,774
I think it's just going to be a lot of chaos and thank goodness we have this

888
00:50:53,104 --> 00:50:57,894
Zen of Bitcoin to hold us through, uh, cause it's the one thing that we can

889
00:50:57,894 --> 00:51:02,474
rely on, but it's, there's going to be volatility because fiat is so volatile.

890
00:51:02,964 --> 00:51:08,824
Yeah, but there is, uh, a global, like, backlash to the, uh, uh, commie tendencies

891
00:51:08,864 --> 00:51:15,384
everywhere, like, uh, Melee's election in Argentina, for instance, but also, like,

892
00:51:15,414 --> 00:51:20,584
people are really starting to boycott woke Hollywood and these, you know, strong

893
00:51:20,584 --> 00:51:25,054
female characters in Marvel movies and Star Wars movies and stuff, like, that

894
00:51:25,054 --> 00:51:30,214
whole polititization of, uh, Like, it's getting a big backlash, and add to that

895
00:51:30,234 --> 00:51:36,154
the, the trucker protests in Canada, the, the, uh, farmers protests in, in Europe,

896
00:51:36,174 --> 00:51:40,354
in both, uh, started in the Netherlands, but now in Germany and France as well.

897
00:51:40,634 --> 00:51:43,854
It's so inspiring to see that, people fighting for their rights, yeah.

898
00:51:43,854 --> 00:51:47,644
Yeah, but they have to, uh, sooner or later, when, especially when their bank

899
00:51:47,644 --> 00:51:50,909
accounts start getting frozen, and people tell them, oh, you're an idiot for not

900
00:51:50,909 --> 00:51:56,939
remembering 12 words, they are, they will, uh, they will, Uh, figure out Bitcoin.

901
00:51:56,959 --> 00:52:01,249
They will discover Bitcoin because like, that's the only way out of this bullshit.

902
00:52:01,339 --> 00:52:02,999
Like, it's the only real way out.

903
00:52:03,636 --> 00:52:09,806
Well, I wonder, I mean, like, will, like, if the system collapses and, you

904
00:52:09,806 --> 00:52:13,266
know, rates go through the roof, if there is sort of that final contagion

905
00:52:13,296 --> 00:52:17,936
effect and the debt spiral gets out of control, I just, I wonder what that

906
00:52:17,936 --> 00:52:22,255
will look like in terms of, will they, will they do some sort of a reset?

907
00:52:22,255 --> 00:52:24,036
Will they do a debt jubilee?

908
00:52:24,216 --> 00:52:26,186
Will they try to helicopter?

909
00:52:26,206 --> 00:52:28,856
I mean, at a certain point, again, it's like you've, you've

910
00:52:28,856 --> 00:52:32,166
reached escape velocity and you could go into hyperinflation.

911
00:52:32,586 --> 00:52:34,696
And so what will they do to prevent that?

912
00:52:34,706 --> 00:52:38,986
What will they do to keep the system, you know, it's crumbled, but like,

913
00:52:38,986 --> 00:52:40,416
they're still, it's like taped together.

914
00:52:41,626 --> 00:52:44,766
Um, I just, I wonder what the next, I think the next 10

915
00:52:44,766 --> 00:52:45,956
years are going to be wild.

916
00:52:45,996 --> 00:52:47,946
And thank goodness we're in Bitcoin.

917
00:54:03,447 --> 00:54:10,070
What role do you think these ETFs will play in that whole collapse scenario?

918
00:54:10,623 --> 00:54:12,083
Well, I mean, here's the thing.

919
00:54:12,083 --> 00:54:15,863
I tend to look at them more positively because I do think that they will be

920
00:54:15,863 --> 00:54:19,473
that entry point for more people to gain Bitcoin exposure in a way that's more

921
00:54:19,473 --> 00:54:21,393
familiar and easy and convenient for them.

922
00:54:21,663 --> 00:54:25,873
I obviously, if you follow my show, my work, I advocate for taking self custody

923
00:54:25,903 --> 00:54:31,033
and buying the actual bearer instrument and being self sovereign in the best way

924
00:54:31,033 --> 00:54:32,903
possible financially, which is Bitcoin.

925
00:54:33,253 --> 00:54:35,863
But I do see a lot of people, I think, especially with certain

926
00:54:35,863 --> 00:54:38,613
generations, just saying, you know, I want, I don't want to think about it.

927
00:54:38,613 --> 00:54:39,893
I don't want to learn how to do.

928
00:54:40,338 --> 00:54:42,508
Wallets or seed phrases or anything.

929
00:54:42,558 --> 00:54:46,288
So I want my financial manager that does everything else for me to just

930
00:54:46,318 --> 00:54:50,018
allocate a small percentage, but maybe that will encourage them to start to

931
00:54:50,028 --> 00:54:53,278
learn about it and see that, hey, this is one of the only tools that when

932
00:54:53,288 --> 00:54:58,518
everything kind of falls around and crumbles in terms of the greater system,

933
00:54:58,768 --> 00:55:02,683
or you need something that you can just flee with, that you can Transfer

934
00:55:02,723 --> 00:55:04,803
in a borderless way in a secure way.

935
00:55:04,803 --> 00:55:08,003
I think more people will start to appreciate and learn about Bitcoin,

936
00:55:08,313 --> 00:55:11,273
but ultimately, you know, I think the bigger, if you're going to be

937
00:55:11,273 --> 00:55:16,723
kind of wondering what negative, um, impact it could have, it's, it's more.

938
00:55:16,723 --> 00:55:21,103
So I wonder like that Bitcoin essentially is with firms.

939
00:55:21,183 --> 00:55:24,833
A lot of Bitcoin is with firms that ultimately are.

940
00:55:25,173 --> 00:55:27,813
regulated, and beholden to the government.

941
00:55:28,003 --> 00:55:31,823
So if the government decided to do some sort of Executive 6102 2.

942
00:55:31,913 --> 00:55:36,673
0, it would be very easy for them to go to a Wall Street firm and

943
00:55:36,673 --> 00:55:38,673
say, okay, that Bitcoin is now ours.

944
00:55:38,833 --> 00:55:42,753
I mean, I don't expect that to happen, but that's like a worst case scenario

945
00:55:42,753 --> 00:55:47,263
where they try to seize people's Bitcoin, they try to seal off on and off ramps.

946
00:55:47,903 --> 00:55:51,503
So overall, I think there's going to be very positive impacts with the

947
00:55:51,503 --> 00:55:55,623
Bitcoin ETF in terms of adoption, but there is always risk, um, and

948
00:55:55,623 --> 00:55:57,263
it's not like owning real Bitcoin.

949
00:55:58,138 --> 00:56:01,858
No, paper Bitcoin is not Bitcoin, like, not your keys, not your coins.

950
00:56:02,128 --> 00:56:06,718
And I think, I think like 13 out of 14 of these ETFs are not even

951
00:56:06,848 --> 00:56:08,438
holding the Bitcoin themselves.

952
00:56:08,688 --> 00:56:11,748
They're all using custodial services.

953
00:56:12,648 --> 00:56:15,528
Yeah, I mean, I mean, there's a reason for that, too, though, because I think that

954
00:56:15,528 --> 00:56:19,768
there are regulations in place where it can't be under one roof, because that's

955
00:56:19,788 --> 00:56:23,478
sort of like a single point of failure, so even if it's just a subsidiary, like,

956
00:56:23,478 --> 00:56:27,078
this is what Fidelity, I think, ran into, where they had to create another entity

957
00:56:27,128 --> 00:56:30,968
so that things were separated, and you don't trust, like, everything under one

958
00:56:30,968 --> 00:56:34,778
roof, or potentially someone could be a bad actor, so I think that that's the

959
00:56:34,778 --> 00:56:36,828
reason, but yeah, I understand your point,

960
00:56:36,988 --> 00:56:42,968
Still, still, like, that's, that might be, uh That logic applies to the old

961
00:56:42,968 --> 00:56:47,758
world, but it doesn't apply as well to, to the Bitcoin world where you want to

962
00:56:47,758 --> 00:56:49,438
be as close to the keys as possible.

963
00:56:49,438 --> 00:56:49,798
I guess.

964
00:56:50,368 --> 00:56:53,998
And, and also like there, there are alternatives if, if you are a boomer

965
00:56:54,003 --> 00:56:57,888
and you want to invest in Bitcoin, but you don't want the hassle, like, uh,

966
00:56:57,888 --> 00:57:03,158
there are companies like the Bitcoin advisor or the Bitcoin way or Unchained

967
00:57:03,163 --> 00:57:08,808
or what they call like these non Chuck multisig stuff that you can do.

968
00:57:08,808 --> 00:57:11,748
And uh, and there are ways and I think, uh.

969
00:57:12,198 --> 00:57:16,418
A lot of these ideas are just being formed and these companies are just starting

970
00:57:16,418 --> 00:57:26,548
up for ways to still hold your keys, but maybe have a bit of institutional

971
00:57:26,558 --> 00:57:33,998
backup to that somehow, like, things are, we're in a building phase, as always.

972
00:57:34,168 --> 00:57:37,628
Yeah, and things that didn't exist 5 years ago, now there are so many more

973
00:57:37,638 --> 00:57:42,188
options, and it is easier, there are so many more, um, just avenues where

974
00:57:42,188 --> 00:57:46,678
people can learn about it, so I'm very hopeful about all of this, but yeah.

975
00:57:47,368 --> 00:57:48,158
Absolutely.

976
00:57:49,718 --> 00:57:53,048
of optimism then, what are you most optimistic about?

977
00:57:53,683 --> 00:57:57,490
I'm optimistic about orange pilling a whole new set of

978
00:57:57,500 --> 00:57:59,380
people during this next bull run.

979
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:05,090
I am really going to focus a lot of my, um, original content this year outside

980
00:58:05,090 --> 00:58:10,430
of my interviews on like that 101 fundamental back to the basics because

981
00:58:10,830 --> 00:58:14,600
even though we've, done so much great work and we have a lot of people that

982
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:16,860
are on this Noah's Ark, so to speak.

983
00:58:17,140 --> 00:58:20,840
There are still so many people who are on the fringe who don't understand

984
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,740
it or skeptical, or they're just not even thinking about it at all.

985
00:58:23,740 --> 00:58:28,890
So I just want to have more, um, content available to people who are really just

986
00:58:28,900 --> 00:58:30,900
starting out that sort of simplifies it.

987
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,670
So I'm going to be focusing on writing some scripts and putting

988
00:58:33,670 --> 00:58:38,040
some, some, uh, work out there that's focused on reaching those people.

989
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:40,820
So I'm just optimistic about what Bitcoin will do over the

990
00:58:40,820 --> 00:58:42,350
next, you know, several years.

991
00:58:42,370 --> 00:58:46,150
I have to say, I mean, the best way that I can answer this question is.

992
00:58:47,650 --> 00:58:53,580
Before Bitcoin, I had started to become sort of, um, pessimistic about the future.

993
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:58,800
I was starting to look at the future as one where I didn't have as much hope.

994
00:58:59,130 --> 00:59:01,570
I thought that things were going to progressively get worse.

995
00:59:01,730 --> 00:59:05,330
I didn't know if I would be able to afford all the things that I need to

996
00:59:05,330 --> 00:59:07,600
afford to have a family or retire.

997
00:59:08,235 --> 00:59:13,905
I was just like, I was full of fear and anxiety about the future, uh,

998
00:59:13,905 --> 00:59:16,875
and I've always been like a long term planner, uh, but I just like,

999
00:59:16,875 --> 00:59:18,215
didn't know how to make it work.

1000
00:59:18,225 --> 00:59:20,915
I was like, even if I work at this job, how do I save enough?

1001
00:59:20,915 --> 00:59:22,775
How do I, how do I make it happen?

1002
00:59:23,645 --> 00:59:30,210
And then when I learned about Bitcoin, it was like, Being injected with a huge

1003
00:59:30,250 --> 00:59:35,560
dose of hope and optimism, and I believe that we can actually fix these problems.

1004
00:59:35,970 --> 00:59:38,430
We have this amazing tool to address them.

1005
00:59:38,450 --> 00:59:41,240
It's just that people don't know about it or understand it.

1006
00:59:41,610 --> 00:59:45,290
And it's like one of the most positive missions that you could work

1007
00:59:45,290 --> 00:59:49,030
on, because I think Bitcoin Brings out the best in people because it

1008
00:59:49,030 --> 00:59:51,360
returns economic dignity to them.

1009
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:55,610
So if you can plan for your future and you don't have to worry so

1010
00:59:55,610 --> 00:59:58,570
much about how you're going to make ends meet, I think you can start to

1011
00:59:58,590 --> 01:00:02,410
really drop your time preference, be more cooperative, be more positive.

1012
01:00:02,820 --> 01:00:06,280
You know, take risks on ideas that you have, be nicer to your

1013
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,190
neighbor and people, start a family.

1014
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:12,320
I mean, it just like incorporates so, so many aspects of our lives

1015
01:00:12,350 --> 01:00:13,890
that have started to go awry.

1016
01:00:13,950 --> 01:00:17,450
So now I'm really hopeful and optimistic and if anyone has a

1017
01:00:17,450 --> 01:00:18,520
problem with that, I don't care.

1018
01:00:19,675 --> 01:00:21,395
Ah, that's so beautifully put.

1019
01:00:21,435 --> 01:00:26,115
Like, you said before you were, um, that your normie friend saw you

1020
01:00:26,115 --> 01:00:30,715
as, like, a conspiracy theorist, and you have such a dark worldview.

1021
01:00:30,995 --> 01:00:31,605
No!

1022
01:00:31,655 --> 01:00:37,385
Like, I want to tell them, because I recognize this so much, and it's

1023
01:00:37,425 --> 01:00:42,475
like, no, guys, I used to be a cynical bastard, but now I'm hopeful.

1024
01:00:42,615 --> 01:00:43,775
Now I'm an optimist.

1025
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:49,820
Like, I used to be this, you know, dark mind pretending to be

1026
01:00:49,820 --> 01:00:51,540
happy, but now I'm happy for real.

1027
01:00:51,550 --> 01:00:55,580
Like, there's, there's hope everywhere.

1028
01:00:56,192 --> 01:00:56,752
I agree.

1029
01:00:56,752 --> 01:00:59,152
I mean, that's why I love the saying that Bitcoin is hope,

1030
01:00:59,162 --> 01:01:01,857
because I, I believe it to my core.

1031
01:01:01,857 --> 01:01:04,377
It's the thing that I most want to work on.

1032
01:01:04,387 --> 01:01:05,727
I love meeting other Bitcoiners.

1033
01:01:06,307 --> 01:01:07,937
I love talking about Bitcoin.

1034
01:01:08,027 --> 01:01:11,397
I never stop talking about Bitcoin.

1035
01:01:11,477 --> 01:01:16,187
Uh, and I can't wait until everyone's on board and, and we create a better

1036
01:01:16,187 --> 01:01:18,317
world and then people can live anywhere.

1037
01:01:18,327 --> 01:01:22,227
You know, it'd be great to see a world where it's just like, we're all within

1038
01:01:22,237 --> 01:01:25,362
like, The same rules, same set of rules.

1039
01:01:25,362 --> 01:01:30,002
We're not overly governed by a bunch of elites who just want to take over control.

1040
01:01:30,202 --> 01:01:31,592
We can make our own choices.

1041
01:01:31,592 --> 01:01:35,362
We can be judged by the value that we bring to the table, our merit.

1042
01:01:35,592 --> 01:01:39,762
It can be judged fairly in a system that, you know, doesn't misallocate

1043
01:01:39,792 --> 01:01:43,992
capital because every, every price is wrong because everything was

1044
01:01:44,192 --> 01:01:46,062
stimulated and artificially priced.

1045
01:01:46,582 --> 01:01:47,522
Um, I just, I don't know.

1046
01:01:47,522 --> 01:01:50,462
I'm excited about what, what world we could create and what

1047
01:01:50,462 --> 01:01:52,032
future generations will have.

1048
01:01:52,752 --> 01:01:53,522
Absolutely.

1049
01:01:53,742 --> 01:01:58,142
That's, that, that's how you're expanding your freedom footprint, I guess.

1050
01:01:58,822 --> 01:02:00,077
by spreading optimism.

1051
01:02:00,542 --> 01:02:01,992
yes, I hope so.

1052
01:02:03,837 --> 01:02:04,717
Fantastic.

1053
01:02:04,827 --> 01:02:09,607
And yeah, if, if you want to, um, if you want to see some more of me and Natalie,

1054
01:02:09,647 --> 01:02:13,977
I recommend you, but you watch the thing we did like a month back, the, uh, uh,

1055
01:02:14,007 --> 01:02:17,227
orange pill apps, um, bitcoins got talent

1056
01:02:17,537 --> 01:02:18,017
fun.

1057
01:02:18,537 --> 01:02:20,067
That was a lot of fun.

1058
01:02:20,327 --> 01:02:23,567
What, what, what was the name of the winning, uh, the winning act?

1059
01:02:23,687 --> 01:02:25,647
Uh, name escapes me at the

1060
01:02:25,657 --> 01:02:28,337
Oh, um, it was that, oh yeah, it was

1061
01:02:28,447 --> 01:02:29,437
this is embarrassing.

1062
01:02:30,327 --> 01:02:32,527
I know, we have to pull, we have to pull, we have to link it.

1063
01:02:32,527 --> 01:02:32,977
It was cool.

1064
01:02:32,977 --> 01:02:34,677
We, I wasn't expecting that one to win.

1065
01:02:34,677 --> 01:02:37,297
I thought it was going to be, um, Sophie, Internet Sophie,

1066
01:02:37,307 --> 01:02:39,067
because she sang so beautifully.

1067
01:02:39,287 --> 01:02:43,037
She was like right up there, but, uh, but no, we had, we had great submissions

1068
01:02:43,057 --> 01:02:46,927
all around, and the song that was created with the rap, it was super cool.

1069
01:02:46,957 --> 01:02:47,217
So,

1070
01:02:47,682 --> 01:02:48,342
yeah, yeah.

1071
01:02:48,652 --> 01:02:49,142
So cool.

1072
01:02:49,752 --> 01:02:53,912
Uh, and we're having an orange pill app meeting later tonight.

1073
01:02:54,022 --> 01:02:56,322
Um, well, it's not tonight over there.

1074
01:02:56,322 --> 01:03:00,542
It's, um, midday, I guess, but those are always fun.

1075
01:03:01,317 --> 01:03:01,677
Yes.

1076
01:03:02,582 --> 01:03:04,472
Luke, do you have anything more on your mind?

1077
01:03:04,482 --> 01:03:06,542
Like any more questions for Natalie that you'd

1078
01:03:06,791 --> 01:03:10,501
I think this has been a really good session, and I think we're

1079
01:03:10,841 --> 01:03:14,761
towards wrapping this up, so I'll turn right back to you, Natalie.

1080
01:03:14,801 --> 01:03:17,621
Anything else you'd like to mention or direct our listeners to?

1081
01:03:18,611 --> 01:03:21,611
just hope if you haven't already, check out my show Coin Stories.

1082
01:03:21,611 --> 01:03:24,891
We get more than a million listeners a month, so I'm super excited because

1083
01:03:24,891 --> 01:03:28,091
we've been in a bear market, so can't wait to see what happens in a bull run.

1084
01:03:28,121 --> 01:03:31,651
Um, I'm on X and YouTube and all the different platforms.

1085
01:03:31,731 --> 01:03:34,201
Just really grateful for the community's support.

1086
01:03:34,439 --> 01:03:38,239
we're planning Women of Bitcoin, not just at, uh, Bitcoin Atlantis

1087
01:03:38,269 --> 01:03:42,119
in Madeira, but we're also doing a A huge one in Bitcoin Nashville.

1088
01:03:42,159 --> 01:03:46,039
So if you want to be a part of it or if you want to sponsor it, reach out to me.

1089
01:03:46,059 --> 01:03:46,969
Um, we can't wait.

1090
01:03:46,969 --> 01:03:49,129
Last year we had more than 250 women.

1091
01:03:49,369 --> 01:03:50,919
This year we're going to make it even bigger.

1092
01:03:50,959 --> 01:03:52,149
So it's really, really fun.

1093
01:03:52,179 --> 01:03:55,969
Um, and yeah, just, I, I just love the message that Bitcoin is for everyone.

1094
01:03:56,009 --> 01:03:58,699
So I hope, I hope everyone embraces that.

1095
01:03:58,719 --> 01:04:02,049
And, uh, Holly here is a Bitcoiner too, but she doesn't know it.

1096
01:04:02,484 --> 01:04:05,194
Oh, yeah, yeah, we were gonna ask about Holly.

1097
01:04:05,234 --> 01:04:08,274
So, so what, what's that type of dog called in English?

1098
01:04:08,589 --> 01:04:10,279
She's a mini Doxind.

1099
01:04:10,844 --> 01:04:11,484
Dachshund.

1100
01:04:11,694 --> 01:04:14,474
Because that's called a tax in, in Swedish.

1101
01:04:14,534 --> 01:04:16,834
So it's a tax, it's, it's a tax.

1102
01:04:17,454 --> 01:04:21,074
So you're, you're, you're, yeah, you're literally being taxed at the moment.

1103
01:04:23,204 --> 01:04:23,214
dork.

1104
01:04:23,224 --> 01:04:26,644
She's very sweet, uh, I very much love her, I've been wanting a dog

1105
01:04:26,644 --> 01:04:29,834
for a long time, and there's never a right time, so I just, I pulled

1106
01:04:29,834 --> 01:04:31,954
the trigger and I got her, um.

1107
01:04:32,884 --> 01:04:35,574
So she's been sitting in your lap for all of this interview,

1108
01:04:35,909 --> 01:04:36,959
Most of it, yeah.

1109
01:04:37,229 --> 01:04:38,759
She just, she's very chill.

1110
01:04:39,149 --> 01:04:39,419
She's

1111
01:04:39,514 --> 01:04:40,474
What a chill dog.

1112
01:04:40,869 --> 01:04:41,969
Yeah, she's very chill.

1113
01:04:41,969 --> 01:04:45,129
I wish I could bring her to Madeira, but I don't think she's quite there yet.

1114
01:04:45,414 --> 01:04:47,034
No, no, no, it's a tax haven.

1115
01:04:47,664 --> 01:04:50,764
They don't allow, like,

1116
01:04:51,729 --> 01:05:00,229
But these, her body is so long, like it's just, isn't it so funny?

1117
01:05:00,339 --> 01:05:01,969
She's just this little sausage.

1118
01:05:03,834 --> 01:05:05,004
My little kielbasa.

1119
01:05:05,384 --> 01:05:07,254
My little Polish kielbasa.

1120
01:05:09,499 --> 01:05:10,519
Oh, that's so nice.

1121
01:05:10,899 --> 01:05:11,239
Yeah.

1122
01:05:11,869 --> 01:05:15,299
Uh, well, looking forward a lot to seeing you on Madeira and all the fun

1123
01:05:15,299 --> 01:05:16,969
stuff we'll, we'll be doing there.

1124
01:05:16,969 --> 01:05:19,609
Will you be staying for a little while or, or just the conference?

1125
01:05:19,834 --> 01:05:22,194
I'm flying in a little early, and I'll be there until the

1126
01:05:22,194 --> 01:05:24,124
conference ends, so I can't wait.

1127
01:05:24,369 --> 01:05:25,039
Fantastic.

1128
01:05:25,039 --> 01:05:25,549
Can't wait.

1129
01:05:25,569 --> 01:05:33,089
And, uh, yeah, those Levada walks and everything like the, I, I had like When

1130
01:05:33,089 --> 01:05:36,829
we created the Free Madeira organization, I think it was my fifth time on Madeira,

1131
01:05:37,019 --> 01:05:41,759
and I've been there, like, as a, as a sailor, as a, you know, professional,

1132
01:05:41,759 --> 01:05:49,649
uh, sea person, and as a tourist, and then as a, uh, as a Bitcoiner talking to

1133
01:05:49,649 --> 01:05:53,909
the president about the future of money, so it's, it's, it's so weird, and, but

1134
01:05:53,909 --> 01:06:00,349
I just love the, uh, that island, and, and yeah, I have a Coin Stories episode.

1135
01:06:01,914 --> 01:06:02,504
Perfect.

1136
01:06:03,899 --> 01:06:05,749
Yeah, we did one, like, uh,

1137
01:06:05,874 --> 01:06:06,464
That's right.

1138
01:06:06,679 --> 01:06:07,689
yeah, uh, when

1139
01:06:07,844 --> 01:06:10,504
We should, we should reshare it in the link, because yeah, and I

1140
01:06:10,514 --> 01:06:12,304
have your book right up there, so.

1141
01:06:12,544 --> 01:06:14,179
I know, yeah, we should definitely share it.

1142
01:06:14,479 --> 01:06:17,119
you should do one with Luke, he's got a fantastic story,

1143
01:06:17,559 --> 01:06:18,219
Sounds great.

1144
01:06:18,239 --> 01:06:18,839
I can't wait.

1145
01:06:18,839 --> 01:06:21,109
I love featuring stories of people around the world.

1146
01:06:21,109 --> 01:06:24,439
So if you go to my YouTube page, there's actually like a playlist and

1147
01:06:24,439 --> 01:06:28,179
it's Bitcoiners around the world, and it's just fascinating stories.

1148
01:06:28,209 --> 01:06:29,039
So I love it.

1149
01:06:29,669 --> 01:06:34,349
yeah, yeah, it's great, uh, and, well, Natalie, good luck with everything

1150
01:06:34,349 --> 01:06:38,179
you do, of course, and, uh, can't wait to see you on Madeira, and

1151
01:06:38,189 --> 01:06:39,459
all the fun we're gonna have there,

1152
01:06:39,859 --> 01:06:40,209
All right.

1153
01:06:40,259 --> 01:06:40,699
Bye guys.

1154
01:06:40,699 --> 01:06:41,319
Thank you.

1155
01:06:41,609 --> 01:06:42,609
Thank you so much, Natalie.

1156
01:06:42,639 --> 01:06:44,119
This has been the Freedom Footprint Show.

1157
01:06:44,229 --> 01:06:44,969
Thanks for listening.

1158
01:06:45,559 --> 01:06:46,199
bye Holly.

1159
01:06:48,519 --> 01:06:48,939
Bye.