1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,827 for Bitcoin to hit 600, 000 in US dollar terms, that's just the equivalent of 2 00:00:03,827 --> 00:00:09,266 gold, every time in history a digital successor has gone after an analog 3 00:00:09,276 --> 00:00:11,139 predecessor, it hasn't equaled it. 4 00:00:11,394 --> 00:00:16,066 It's like crushed it, whether you think of like automobiles versus, you 5 00:00:16,066 --> 00:00:20,239 know, like horse and buggies or mobile phones versus rotary phones, this 6 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:22,921 is Bitcoin verse analog gold, right? 7 00:00:23,139 --> 00:00:26,257 So, okay, let's get to 600, 000 of Bitcoin. 8 00:00:26,548 --> 00:00:26,894 Right? 9 00:00:26,976 --> 00:00:31,166 And then let's see what happens if it goes to 10x that, right? 10 00:00:31,176 --> 00:00:32,539 And we're at 6 ,million of Bitcoin. 11 00:00:32,785 --> 00:00:34,539 These other things are going to take care of themselves. 12 00:00:34,694 --> 00:00:36,385 We don't need to fight those battles now. 13 00:00:36,548 --> 00:00:38,788 Let's just fight the battle of being a digital gold 14 00:01:47,133 --> 00:01:50,203 eric, welcome to the Freedom Footprint show and welcome to Madeira. 15 00:01:50,373 --> 00:01:51,193 Thanks for having me. 16 00:01:51,193 --> 00:01:52,103 Yeah, it's great to be here. 17 00:01:52,113 --> 00:01:53,473 It's quite a, quite a venue. 18 00:01:53,719 --> 00:01:55,759 you got in yesterday night, I guess? 19 00:01:55,859 --> 00:01:56,939 Or yesterday afternoon? 20 00:01:57,369 --> 00:01:58,069 Yesterday morning? 21 00:01:58,289 --> 00:01:58,869 morning, yeah. 22 00:01:58,879 --> 00:01:59,429 Red Eye. 23 00:01:59,517 --> 00:02:00,717 How scary was the landing? 24 00:02:01,202 --> 00:02:02,692 It was actually pretty scary. 25 00:02:02,692 --> 00:02:06,222 There was quite a crosswind and, uh, we made it in one approach. 26 00:02:06,872 --> 00:02:07,742 We didn't have to pull up. 27 00:02:07,742 --> 00:02:10,942 I was speaking to someone last night and they had to take three 28 00:02:10,942 --> 00:02:14,972 approaches before they landed, but, uh, it was, it was a little scary. 29 00:02:14,972 --> 00:02:18,602 Those wings are getting pretty close to the runway and I've never landed on a 30 00:02:18,602 --> 00:02:24,672 runway that was supported by like cement pylons that's hanging out over the ocean. 31 00:02:25,042 --> 00:02:25,792 That's pretty scary. 32 00:02:25,952 --> 00:02:28,442 Now I know why it's the second most dangerous airport in the world. 33 00:02:28,757 --> 00:02:29,027 Yeah. 34 00:02:29,027 --> 00:02:32,057 That, that statistic though is, uh, a according to under at 35 00:02:32,057 --> 00:02:33,527 least, it's, it's slightly off. 36 00:02:33,527 --> 00:02:34,277 Because that was 37 00:02:34,677 --> 00:02:35,187 Before they 38 00:02:35,237 --> 00:02:36,467 they extended it. 39 00:02:36,967 --> 00:02:37,177 Yeah. 40 00:02:37,177 --> 00:02:37,627 Yeah. 41 00:02:37,837 --> 00:02:43,287 And I was, I was here once with a, uh, small sailboat and we anchored just, just 42 00:02:43,287 --> 00:02:48,567 down, down from, uh, from the, the edge of those, of the runway on the pilots. 43 00:02:48,567 --> 00:02:50,307 So we, we saw the planes like. 44 00:02:50,842 --> 00:02:54,662 Lifting off, taking off above our, above our mast and everything. 45 00:02:54,827 --> 00:02:55,137 That's, 46 00:02:55,272 --> 00:02:56,522 it was pretty wild. 47 00:02:56,647 --> 00:03:00,357 Apparently now underneath the runway, they have like go karts that you 48 00:03:00,532 --> 00:03:00,982 Oh yeah. 49 00:03:01,927 --> 00:03:03,257 So maybe we'll check 50 00:03:03,382 --> 00:03:04,022 pretty cool. 51 00:03:04,062 --> 00:03:04,482 Yeah. 52 00:03:04,632 --> 00:03:04,922 Yeah. 53 00:03:05,299 --> 00:03:08,259 for our listeners that don't know you tell, can you tell 54 00:03:08,569 --> 00:03:10,094 them a little about yourself and 55 00:03:10,344 --> 00:03:11,284 Quick TLDR, 56 00:03:11,596 --> 00:03:11,836 Yeah. 57 00:03:11,836 --> 00:03:15,856 The, the, the TLDR is, uh, started out in traditional finance. 58 00:03:16,576 --> 00:03:21,546 And, uh, discovered Bitcoin in 2013, bought my first Bitcoin at the end of 59 00:03:21,546 --> 00:03:29,706 2013, um, started a Bitcoin fund, um, called Bitcoin Investment Group for people 60 00:03:29,726 --> 00:03:34,066 to, who are used to more traditional investing, high net worth individuals and 61 00:03:34,066 --> 00:03:36,936 family office types, to invest in Bitcoin. 62 00:03:37,296 --> 00:03:40,056 Uh, you know, opening an account at Coinbase wasn't something 63 00:03:40,056 --> 00:03:41,306 that was comfortable to them. 64 00:03:41,656 --> 00:03:44,956 There was no publicly traded products at the time, and so I 65 00:03:44,966 --> 00:03:49,396 started a fund that allowed people to invest dollars in Bitcoin. 66 00:03:49,816 --> 00:03:53,666 And they can leave and get back dollars, but we're also the only fund that 67 00:03:53,666 --> 00:03:56,856 will actually send them Bitcoin when they're ready to self custody as well. 68 00:03:57,216 --> 00:04:01,711 And, uh, charge like very low fees, 1 percent a year, which includes The 69 00:04:01,711 --> 00:04:05,691 custody at Fidelity Digital Assets and it's a simple little straightforward 70 00:04:05,691 --> 00:04:10,171 vehicle and uh, yeah, it's got, you know, decent amount of capital has flowed in 71 00:04:10,171 --> 00:04:14,471 and a lot of people got into Bitcoin like way before the ETF so it was great. 72 00:04:15,611 --> 00:04:17,931 Some happy, some happy limited partners. 73 00:04:18,247 --> 00:04:22,087 So what do you, uh, speaking of the ETFs, what do you think this will do to the, do 74 00:04:22,087 --> 00:04:26,127 you see, do you think we've seen even the beginning of what that's going to do to? 75 00:04:26,202 --> 00:04:30,892 I was, I was always in the camp very vocally that this was a really big deal. 76 00:04:31,452 --> 00:04:34,382 And people were saying, nah, it's all hype. 77 00:04:34,382 --> 00:04:35,412 All the money's come in. 78 00:04:35,412 --> 00:04:38,312 It's going to be a sell the news kind of situation. 79 00:04:38,312 --> 00:04:42,782 And I was very much having worked on Wall Street my whole life, not in that camp. 80 00:04:43,142 --> 00:04:46,372 The truth of the matter is the money of the world is in Wall Street. 81 00:04:47,032 --> 00:04:52,462 And until you open up the window for them to invest, and it gets blessed by 82 00:04:52,472 --> 00:04:56,362 the powers that need to bless it, it's just the capital's not going to come in. 83 00:04:56,722 --> 00:05:01,162 And so, there's this tidal wave of money, and we've just seen the first 84 00:05:01,522 --> 00:05:03,632 kind of splashes of this coming in. 85 00:05:04,042 --> 00:05:07,912 I know that some of the bigger firms like BlackRock and Fidelity, they 86 00:05:07,912 --> 00:05:12,102 haven't even unleashed like 25 percent of their distribution capabilities yet. 87 00:05:12,612 --> 00:05:16,502 The, this is mostly a retail wave of investors, institutional 88 00:05:16,502 --> 00:05:19,042 investors have way more constraints. 89 00:05:19,092 --> 00:05:22,902 For example, they can't be more than 5 percent of daily volume. 90 00:05:23,212 --> 00:05:23,782 They can't be. 91 00:05:23,842 --> 00:05:26,552 So even if you're trading a billion dollars, that's 50 92 00:05:26,552 --> 00:05:27,672 million that they could do. 93 00:05:28,062 --> 00:05:30,792 And for the pension funds and endowment funds of the world 94 00:05:31,052 --> 00:05:32,312 that doesn't even register. 95 00:05:32,892 --> 00:05:36,762 And the other thing is they just want to, they don't take risks. 96 00:05:37,132 --> 00:05:41,282 They want to see how the ETFs play out, how well they track bitcoin, 97 00:05:41,552 --> 00:05:45,762 which one, if any, are better than the other, before they make their move. 98 00:05:45,762 --> 00:05:49,352 And to us, the retail investor, there may be a really big 99 00:05:49,352 --> 00:05:53,602 difference between 40, 000. 100 00:05:53,922 --> 00:05:58,352 To the institutional investor in this pool of, you know, many, many, many billions of 101 00:05:58,352 --> 00:06:00,472 dollars of capital, there's no difference. 102 00:06:00,472 --> 00:06:02,372 They don't care about allocating. 103 00:06:02,817 --> 00:06:04,137 It's not a, oh, we got to get in. 104 00:06:04,137 --> 00:06:06,927 It's 60, 000 versus 120, 000. 105 00:06:07,017 --> 00:06:08,727 They genuinely do not care. 106 00:06:09,207 --> 00:06:13,547 So they're happy to take their time and wait, which is great for us because 107 00:06:13,607 --> 00:06:15,907 there's plenty more capital to come. 108 00:06:16,270 --> 00:06:16,470 Yeah. 109 00:06:16,470 --> 00:06:19,470 And most of them are using the same custodian, right? 110 00:06:19,491 --> 00:06:20,791 A lot of them are using Coinbase. 111 00:06:20,821 --> 00:06:22,181 Fidelity is obviously not. 112 00:06:22,181 --> 00:06:25,411 I think Fidelity is probably the safest custodian in the United States. 113 00:06:25,411 --> 00:06:27,301 They're doing their customing themselves. 114 00:06:27,671 --> 00:06:30,781 The other thing that's really big about the ETFs is not just the flow 115 00:06:30,781 --> 00:06:32,171 of funds and what it does for price. 116 00:06:32,976 --> 00:06:36,716 What's really big is from a regulatory and legal standpoint in the United 117 00:06:36,726 --> 00:06:39,114 States, this can never go back now. 118 00:06:39,734 --> 00:06:43,384 Bitcoin is now through the ETFs in the hands of endowment funds, 119 00:06:43,384 --> 00:06:45,494 pension funds, retirement accounts. 120 00:06:45,864 --> 00:06:50,734 So whether the next chairman of the SEC or the next president of the United States is 121 00:06:50,734 --> 00:06:53,034 against Bitcoin or not, it doesn't matter. 122 00:06:53,334 --> 00:06:55,804 They can't take it away from the people now. 123 00:06:56,014 --> 00:06:57,174 And that's the really big thing. 124 00:06:57,174 --> 00:06:58,764 We've crossed this massive chasm. 125 00:06:59,104 --> 00:07:01,474 And interestingly, right, it's only Bitcoin. 126 00:07:02,159 --> 00:07:03,639 That has crossed this chasm. 127 00:07:03,649 --> 00:07:06,509 It's not any of the other tokens or coin. 128 00:07:06,579 --> 00:07:07,399 No, no, no. 129 00:07:07,629 --> 00:07:08,789 And rightly so. 130 00:07:09,239 --> 00:07:09,589 Yeah. 131 00:07:10,149 --> 00:07:13,569 I mean, yeah, yeah, it's just fascinating to think about, like, the 132 00:07:13,569 --> 00:07:19,319 way I visualize it is, it's really this immovable object meet unstoppable force. 133 00:07:19,809 --> 00:07:22,309 That, that's where, that's the supply demand curve. 134 00:07:22,789 --> 00:07:24,799 That's the cross point, like, the crosshairs. 135 00:07:25,249 --> 00:07:28,719 but one point is one, one thing is more unstoppable than the other though, right? 136 00:07:28,729 --> 00:07:30,019 You can't stop that supply. 137 00:07:30,299 --> 00:07:31,279 Supply is capped, 138 00:07:31,579 --> 00:07:32,289 That's correct. 139 00:07:32,499 --> 00:07:33,039 That's correct. 140 00:07:33,039 --> 00:07:33,229 Yeah. 141 00:07:33,229 --> 00:07:39,299 We're, we're getting a real supply shock and a demand shock right now. 142 00:07:39,639 --> 00:07:42,449 And people don't fully understand it and it's going to 143 00:07:42,449 --> 00:07:43,539 get worse with the happening. 144 00:07:43,539 --> 00:07:43,869 Right. 145 00:07:44,239 --> 00:07:49,519 So people just really don't quite understand, uh, you know, the dynamic 146 00:07:49,519 --> 00:07:54,499 we've seen a little bit of it in the last month or last, 72 hours, even, where it 147 00:07:54,499 --> 00:07:58,949 seems to go parabolic, but it could, it could be significantly more dramatic. 148 00:07:58,989 --> 00:08:04,494 We could even see 50 to 100 percent in one day, because When, when the Bitcoin 149 00:08:04,504 --> 00:08:08,374 lands in strong hands and there's traders and there are people, um, who 150 00:08:08,374 --> 00:08:12,804 live their lives in fiat and they have goals and objectives for their life 151 00:08:12,804 --> 00:08:16,454 to buy a house, buy a car, whatever it is, and they will have a number in U. 152 00:08:16,454 --> 00:08:16,594 S. 153 00:08:16,594 --> 00:08:19,614 dollar terms in their mind where they're going to sell, but generally 154 00:08:19,614 --> 00:08:22,264 speaking, there are a lot of people like the three of us or Michael 155 00:08:22,264 --> 00:08:25,914 or others or micro strategy that just like, aren't going to sell. 156 00:08:25,954 --> 00:08:28,034 That's, most people are just not going to sell. 157 00:08:28,034 --> 00:08:30,544 Like, you'll pry it from my dead hands, right? 158 00:08:30,894 --> 00:08:35,854 So there's just very little supply factor in all that's been lost, you 159 00:08:35,854 --> 00:08:37,384 know, whatever, 4 million or so. 160 00:08:37,824 --> 00:08:41,784 And we're going to reach a point where you've got, you know, someone wants 161 00:08:41,784 --> 00:08:46,484 to buy a thousand Bitcoin of demand and there's 500 Bitcoin of supply. 162 00:08:46,894 --> 00:08:50,634 And the price is just going to go up very, very dramatically, very quickly. 163 00:08:50,937 --> 00:08:54,717 You think that this, these last days little hint of a bull 164 00:08:54,717 --> 00:08:57,039 run is, is the start of that? 165 00:08:57,227 --> 00:08:57,957 Yes and no. 166 00:08:57,997 --> 00:08:58,627 Yes and no. 167 00:08:58,627 --> 00:09:01,357 We're getting a glimpse, but also, you know, there are, 168 00:09:01,477 --> 00:09:02,557 there are traders out there. 169 00:09:02,557 --> 00:09:07,437 So there are plenty of people who came in at 51, 000 less than 170 00:09:07,437 --> 00:09:13,607 a month ago, and they're at 61, 000 now, and that's a big gain. 171 00:09:13,647 --> 00:09:16,697 And there will be no shortage of people who are going to take those profits. 172 00:09:17,207 --> 00:09:19,217 So that's going to generate sellers for us. 173 00:09:19,217 --> 00:09:23,307 The other thing that we have kind of helping us is as the US 174 00:09:23,307 --> 00:09:27,237 dollar price goes up, it takes less Bitcoin to meet the demand. 175 00:09:27,597 --> 00:09:28,807 So right. 176 00:09:28,817 --> 00:09:32,867 It's like if you have a hundred thousand dollars come in and at 50, 000, they 177 00:09:32,867 --> 00:09:37,547 could have satisfied it with two Bitcoin, you know, price of Bitcoin doubles. 178 00:09:37,597 --> 00:09:40,837 And now it's, they only need one Bitcoin to satisfy that same demand. 179 00:09:41,170 --> 00:09:43,700 So, do you see a risk with this ETF? 180 00:09:43,730 --> 00:09:45,980 Like, not your keys, not your coins, right? 181 00:09:45,980 --> 00:09:52,295 So, so like, that, that not, not only is It's owning a Bitcoin ETF, not only 182 00:09:52,385 --> 00:09:56,745 owning Bitcoin, but it's also like, if the ETFs themselves are using a 183 00:09:56,745 --> 00:10:00,235 custodian service, like, do you see a risk with that, that so many of the 184 00:10:00,235 --> 00:10:02,935 Bitcoins are going to end up in a so far 185 00:10:03,710 --> 00:10:06,030 I don't, I understand the conceptual risk. 186 00:10:06,615 --> 00:10:12,805 Um, I, I don't think that that's a legitimate concern, certainly not 187 00:10:12,805 --> 00:10:14,555 in the United States at this point. 188 00:10:14,965 --> 00:10:18,995 And if that were to become a concern, I don't think it happens overnight. 189 00:10:19,245 --> 00:10:22,205 There's plenty of foreshadowing, there's discussions in Congress, 190 00:10:22,675 --> 00:10:25,895 you know, there's, there's a lot of smoke before there's fire. 191 00:10:26,195 --> 00:10:30,125 And if that were to be a situation and people wanted Bitcoin, they 192 00:10:30,125 --> 00:10:33,815 would sell their ETFs and buy Bitcoin and take custody of their Bitcoin. 193 00:10:34,210 --> 00:10:37,610 Uh, in a more direct way, I, I really don't think it's a, a concern. 194 00:10:38,219 --> 00:10:38,419 Yeah. 195 00:10:38,419 --> 00:10:43,059 I think we should, as Bitcoiners, encourage that always, though, like self 196 00:10:43,194 --> 00:10:43,601 Yeah, I 197 00:10:43,644 --> 00:10:47,304 mean, the truth is I think self custody, we don't have the killer app 198 00:10:47,324 --> 00:10:49,134 for self custody yet in my opinion. 199 00:10:49,604 --> 00:10:55,360 It's still too, complicated may not be the right word, but it's still too, in some 200 00:10:55,360 --> 00:11:00,350 ways it, it presents more risk and more hassle and a lot of people don't want, I 201 00:11:00,350 --> 00:11:05,650 mean, I have some good friends in the self custody world, right, who, like, make the 202 00:11:05,650 --> 00:11:10,830 hardware wallets, etc, right, and I have looked into it extensively, I understand 203 00:11:10,830 --> 00:11:13,660 it fairly well, and it's not for me. 204 00:11:14,190 --> 00:11:17,810 I'm still more comfortable having my Bitcoin custody at Fidelity. 205 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:23,380 So, you know, when, when they have the, this killer app that makes it super easy 206 00:11:23,380 --> 00:11:28,130 and safe in a multi sig way, and it's like, uh, it's a simple user interface, 207 00:11:28,130 --> 00:11:32,150 and I'm not worried about if something happens to me, what happens to my 208 00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:36,020 custody, and all these fail safes, or if I forget my pen, all kinds of stuff, 209 00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:41,130 like, there, there, there will be more mass adoption, but we're not there yet. 210 00:11:41,510 --> 00:11:45,170 I was with the folks, uh, one of the founders of Trezor, um, 211 00:11:45,180 --> 00:11:47,860 when we were in Prague at dinner. 212 00:11:48,150 --> 00:11:52,480 And by his numbers, 2 percent of people, self custody, 213 00:11:52,755 --> 00:11:53,611 Is that low? 214 00:11:53,750 --> 00:11:54,210 that low. 215 00:11:54,585 --> 00:11:55,225 Oh, holy. 216 00:11:55,495 --> 00:12:00,065 I mean, um, yeah, the, the, the thing with the, um, simple UXs and 217 00:12:00,065 --> 00:12:04,195 everything and, and, uh, convenience is that the trade off is always there. 218 00:12:04,375 --> 00:12:09,055 Like, so, so we might never see a killer app for, for self custody. 219 00:12:09,335 --> 00:12:11,755 Like, do you think such an app even exists? 220 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:12,770 I think it will. 221 00:12:12,850 --> 00:12:13,460 I think it will. 222 00:12:13,460 --> 00:12:17,590 I think it'll happen in the next, you know, 12 to 24 months. 223 00:12:18,390 --> 00:12:21,280 I think we're going to see great strides in that area. 224 00:12:21,465 --> 00:12:23,745 In the next 12 to 24 words. 225 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:24,380 ha. 226 00:12:25,875 --> 00:12:26,180 Yeah, exactly. 227 00:12:26,860 --> 00:12:27,470 Coincidence? 228 00:12:27,470 --> 00:12:27,960 Yeah, exactly. 229 00:12:28,250 --> 00:12:29,983 Um, yeah, I think, I think we will. 230 00:12:30,180 --> 00:12:33,450 There's so much, I, I think that's that whole area of money now 231 00:12:33,450 --> 00:12:38,190 being nothing but information and provably so, so it's so unexplored. 232 00:12:38,195 --> 00:12:42,030 Like this whole notion of, you know, 12 words, 12 magic words. 233 00:12:42,030 --> 00:12:43,890 It's so powerful. 234 00:12:43,890 --> 00:12:44,820 Like it's, it's 235 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:49,350 And there's virtually no chance explaining that to someone over a certain age. 236 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:51,590 No, they can't, can't get it. 237 00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:56,340 Can't get it, don't want to get it, and in a lot of cases, their livelihood 238 00:12:56,610 --> 00:12:58,340 depends on them not getting it. 239 00:12:58,508 --> 00:12:59,328 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 240 00:12:59,328 --> 00:13:00,808 And that's the, uh, what was it? 241 00:13:00,848 --> 00:13:02,218 Upton Sinclair quote. 242 00:13:02,418 --> 00:13:03,088 Yeah, yeah. 243 00:13:03,438 --> 00:13:04,068 That's really good. 244 00:13:04,068 --> 00:13:08,118 It's a very, uh, very hard to grasp something if your salary 245 00:13:08,118 --> 00:13:09,998 depends on not understanding it. 246 00:13:10,038 --> 00:13:10,438 Yeah. 247 00:13:10,918 --> 00:13:13,268 And all the boomers that actually do understand Bitcoin, 248 00:13:13,268 --> 00:13:14,718 they're all, they're all here. 249 00:13:15,953 --> 00:13:16,753 A good number of them. 250 00:13:16,753 --> 00:13:17,703 That's quite a turnout. 251 00:13:17,983 --> 00:13:21,213 Yeah, but it is, I mean, that's one thing that Wall Street does. 252 00:13:21,813 --> 00:13:27,448 And don't underestimate the benefit of The two largest asset management 253 00:13:27,458 --> 00:13:32,628 firms in the world, BlackRock and Fidelity, with their credibility, right? 254 00:13:32,638 --> 00:13:36,418 Nobody has more credibility than, uh, you know, Larry Fink 255 00:13:36,468 --> 00:13:38,528 or Abigail Johnson, right? 256 00:13:38,778 --> 00:13:43,148 They're not only the CEOs of their respective companies, they are the 257 00:13:43,218 --> 00:13:45,478 founder, in Larry's case, and the heir. 258 00:13:45,783 --> 00:13:50,643 In Abigail's case, and so they can have the courage to do something bold 259 00:13:50,643 --> 00:13:55,703 like this, whereas the CEO of Vanguard, right, serves at the pleasure of his 260 00:13:55,703 --> 00:14:00,333 board, and it's a job, granted he was in it for a long time, but you 261 00:14:00,333 --> 00:14:01,963 know, there's risk to that person, 262 00:14:02,538 --> 00:14:02,728 yeah, 263 00:14:02,728 --> 00:14:02,978 yeah, 264 00:14:03,893 --> 00:14:06,383 you know, it's their job, they serve at the pleasure of the 265 00:14:06,383 --> 00:14:07,593 board and they can be fired. 266 00:14:07,693 --> 00:14:11,683 He just resigned yesterday, or announced that he was going to resign, whether 267 00:14:11,683 --> 00:14:15,983 or not that's coincidence or not, who knows, but, you know, I can imagine. 268 00:14:16,338 --> 00:14:21,088 That his perspective was, yeah, this may be coming, but not on my watch. 269 00:14:21,398 --> 00:14:25,008 And he knew that he was leaving soon or something and you know, just 270 00:14:25,368 --> 00:14:28,178 kicked it down the road a little bit and now he's gone and now we'll 271 00:14:28,178 --> 00:14:29,518 have another bite at the apple. 272 00:14:29,868 --> 00:14:35,938 And maybe the next CEO embraces Bitcoin and maybe not, but the benefit of 273 00:14:35,948 --> 00:14:38,273 having the BlackRock's and Fidelity's. 274 00:14:38,273 --> 00:14:42,358 And the reason why they're doing this is they will educate their consumer in 275 00:14:42,358 --> 00:14:44,993 a credible, um, and very effective way. 276 00:14:45,003 --> 00:14:47,353 I mean, some of BlackRock's marketing materials, I don't know if you've 277 00:14:47,373 --> 00:14:48,353 seen them, they're excellent. 278 00:14:48,833 --> 00:14:51,993 So, you know, the plebs, we all create stuff and put it out there 279 00:14:51,993 --> 00:14:56,023 and it's on X or Twitter or whatever, but when the BlackRock's infidelity 280 00:14:56,023 --> 00:14:59,508 is of the world Uh, go to sell something and explain something. 281 00:14:59,628 --> 00:15:00,538 They're excellent at it. 282 00:15:01,178 --> 00:15:06,868 yeah, yeah, but don't sell your Bitcoin to BlackRock, like, that's a pro tip 283 00:15:06,978 --> 00:15:07,868 Don't sell your Bitcoin to 284 00:15:08,088 --> 00:15:11,014 no, don't even sell it to MicroStrategy, like, don't 285 00:15:11,628 --> 00:15:12,248 sell it to me. 286 00:15:12,368 --> 00:15:12,438 it. 287 00:15:13,313 --> 00:15:15,103 You don't sell your Bitcoin. 288 00:15:15,103 --> 00:15:15,943 That was, that was the phrase, 289 00:15:16,128 --> 00:15:16,768 That's right. 290 00:15:16,918 --> 00:15:17,528 You don't sell it. 291 00:15:17,528 --> 00:15:17,748 Yeah. 292 00:15:17,748 --> 00:15:20,408 Seller will say that as many times as he can. 293 00:15:20,833 --> 00:15:23,343 but you can trade it for goods and services though, right? 294 00:15:23,343 --> 00:15:23,953 Eventually. 295 00:15:24,203 --> 00:15:24,953 What do you think about that? 296 00:15:25,403 --> 00:15:25,903 No. 297 00:15:26,138 --> 00:15:29,528 No, that's, that's, there's no difference between trading it for goods and 298 00:15:29,528 --> 00:15:31,158 services and selling it in my opinion. 299 00:15:32,018 --> 00:15:38,548 Uh, you, you can borrow against your Bitcoin and then repay the loan and 300 00:15:38,548 --> 00:15:42,538 keep your Bitcoin in exchange for those goods and services or whatever you want, 301 00:15:42,548 --> 00:15:46,408 but no, I'm not, I'm not inclined to sell my Bitcoin for goods and services. 302 00:15:46,613 --> 00:15:49,473 What about in the scenario though, when everyone is completely 303 00:15:49,473 --> 00:15:50,883 hyperbitcoinized, right? 304 00:15:50,953 --> 00:15:54,713 I mean, maybe that's not in any of our lifetimes, but, uh, when, when everything 305 00:15:54,713 --> 00:15:58,633 is only Bitcoin, then it's just, just got to move around for, for costs and stuff. 306 00:15:59,003 --> 00:15:59,623 What do you think about that? 307 00:15:59,888 --> 00:16:02,488 Oh, I, I'm all in favor of the movement of Bitcoin. 308 00:16:02,938 --> 00:16:08,078 I might, you know, in some scenarios, lend my Bitcoin out, uh, to 309 00:16:08,078 --> 00:16:09,648 earn interest on it if there is. 310 00:16:10,203 --> 00:16:14,233 A way to make sure there was no real counterparty risk or something like that. 311 00:16:14,493 --> 00:16:17,083 I'm, I'm not at all opposed to the movement of Bitcoin. 312 00:16:17,323 --> 00:16:20,643 I'm just not going to be parting with any of my Bitcoin. 313 00:16:20,950 --> 00:16:21,810 that's a good way of putting it. 314 00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:25,120 Like play the Fiat games until Fiat disappears. 315 00:16:25,230 --> 00:16:25,420 Right. 316 00:16:25,420 --> 00:16:25,830 I guess. 317 00:16:26,250 --> 00:16:30,930 Yeah, I mean, I, I, I don't, I think a lot of fiats will disappear. 318 00:16:31,250 --> 00:16:33,230 I don't think fiat is going to disappear. 319 00:16:33,230 --> 00:16:38,035 I actually think that Bitcoin is Really good for the US dollar, and I think 320 00:16:38,035 --> 00:16:44,245 there can be plenty of nation states with fiat currencies that can make their 321 00:16:44,245 --> 00:16:47,125 fiat survive by backing it with bitcoin. 322 00:16:47,505 --> 00:16:50,875 So, I, I think fiat is necessary and will exist. 323 00:16:51,215 --> 00:16:52,055 I, I'm just 324 00:16:52,225 --> 00:16:52,895 Forever? 325 00:16:53,175 --> 00:16:53,945 potentially, yeah. 326 00:16:53,985 --> 00:16:57,225 I don't see any reason for the US dollar or euro or Chinese yuan. 327 00:16:57,555 --> 00:17:01,705 To go away, I think the weaker fiats will go away, but as a, 328 00:17:01,725 --> 00:17:05,415 as a medium of exchange, I think they serve a valuable purpose. 329 00:17:06,135 --> 00:17:06,475 Hmm. 330 00:17:06,825 --> 00:17:07,405 Interesting. 331 00:17:07,670 --> 00:17:10,160 Can you explain how it's good for the US dollar specifically? 332 00:17:10,632 --> 00:17:11,002 Sure. 333 00:17:11,022 --> 00:17:15,122 I mean, first of all, it's good for Bitcoin that their fiat currencies exist 334 00:17:15,842 --> 00:17:20,572 to the extent that you start viewing Bitcoin in opposition to fiat currencies. 335 00:17:21,022 --> 00:17:24,062 You create the single most powerful enemies in the world. 336 00:17:24,802 --> 00:17:31,362 And as great as we're feeling about Bitcoin right now, as a 1 trillion asset, 337 00:17:31,972 --> 00:17:36,512 if China and the United States were to get together and decided they wanted 338 00:17:36,522 --> 00:17:38,772 Bitcoin to go away, it will go away. 339 00:17:39,352 --> 00:17:39,692 Okay. 340 00:17:39,742 --> 00:17:45,032 So, you know, let's see, we, we are as unstoppable as we can 341 00:17:45,032 --> 00:17:47,872 be, but we are stoppable, right? 342 00:17:47,892 --> 00:17:48,972 And to some degree, 343 00:17:49,042 --> 00:17:49,602 Really? 344 00:17:50,382 --> 00:17:51,262 yes, really. 345 00:17:51,302 --> 00:17:55,062 Oh, this is fun, because I think this is where we might disagree. 346 00:17:55,062 --> 00:17:57,942 I think we may be stoppable for a thousand years, but I 347 00:17:57,962 --> 00:17:59,572 think we come back after that. 348 00:17:59,892 --> 00:18:04,742 I, uh, My, correct, my, perhaps my view was a little shorter than yours. 349 00:18:05,102 --> 00:18:09,182 I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, maybe selfishly, slightly more concerned about my 350 00:18:09,182 --> 00:18:11,932 lifetime than, than post 1, 000 years. 351 00:18:11,932 --> 00:18:17,032 But, you know, in, in, uh, also in, you know, fi all of, you know, known history 352 00:18:17,032 --> 00:18:18,512 is what, like, a few thousand years. 353 00:18:18,802 --> 00:18:23,112 So, you know, in 5, 000 years, you know, like, uh, Marcus Aurelius, 354 00:18:23,132 --> 00:18:25,932 soon you will have forgotten all and all will have forgotten you. 355 00:18:26,282 --> 00:18:30,312 So, you know, I'm not sure anyone from You know, our civilization 356 00:18:30,312 --> 00:18:32,132 will be remembered in 5, 000 years. 357 00:18:37,745 --> 00:18:38,005 years? 358 00:18:38,005 --> 00:18:39,955 Because that's sort of required, too, like, 359 00:18:40,135 --> 00:18:40,615 Yeah. 360 00:18:40,655 --> 00:18:43,875 I mean, as long as the, as long as the world is still here as we know 361 00:18:43,875 --> 00:18:47,935 it, then I think the answer is yes, but it's also entirely plausible that, 362 00:18:48,465 --> 00:18:52,435 you know, we'll blow ourselves up or something, or there'll be a total reset 363 00:18:52,655 --> 00:18:54,655 as there's probably been many, many times. 364 00:18:55,125 --> 00:18:56,405 Throughout civilization, right? 365 00:18:56,405 --> 00:19:01,085 We've, they found, eh, they found a hand axe factory 366 00:19:01,635 --> 00:19:02,040 in 367 00:19:02,345 --> 00:19:05,495 Ethiopia that they estimate is 1. 368 00:19:05,555 --> 00:19:07,085 2 million years old. 369 00:19:07,575 --> 00:19:10,035 So, you know, if you think about that, 370 00:19:10,705 --> 00:19:11,105 yes, 371 00:19:11,405 --> 00:19:12,895 civilization got to a point. 372 00:19:13,235 --> 00:19:17,435 Where it wasn't an individual making a handaxe for personal use, it was a factory 373 00:19:17,775 --> 00:19:19,505 where they were assembling handaxes. 374 00:19:19,565 --> 00:19:21,705 So, civilization got to a point 1. 375 00:19:21,705 --> 00:19:25,605 2 million years ago where we were that far along. 376 00:19:25,885 --> 00:19:27,965 There's nothing in our history, no knowledge of that. 377 00:19:27,965 --> 00:19:29,535 We go back a few thousand years. 378 00:19:29,825 --> 00:19:34,675 So, you know, maybe there was some kind of reset or something, some Nuclear holocaust 379 00:19:34,725 --> 00:19:37,935 or something that like annihilated the planet and we started again or something. 380 00:19:37,975 --> 00:19:38,095 I don't 381 00:19:38,155 --> 00:19:42,265 it's probably the CO2 levels from the Handaxe factory that 382 00:19:43,495 --> 00:19:44,185 Exactly. 383 00:19:44,525 --> 00:19:46,795 You got to be careful with those CO2 levels, man. 384 00:19:47,295 --> 00:19:49,415 You got to be very careful about our energy usage. 385 00:19:49,865 --> 00:19:53,605 Oh, well, yeah, what a time to be alive 386 00:21:02,348 --> 00:21:07,838 yeah, but I do, I do think that, I do think that, um, for example, if a 387 00:21:07,838 --> 00:21:13,418 country like Turkey, okay, that's still able to issue Turkish lira and sell 388 00:21:13,418 --> 00:21:14,878 bonds and do things of that nature. 389 00:21:15,248 --> 00:21:19,808 If they were to issue, you know, billions of dollars worth of, you 390 00:21:19,808 --> 00:21:25,308 know, national debt and they took the entire proceeds of it and they bought 391 00:21:25,508 --> 00:21:30,733 Bitcoin, they could start to back Their currency back, the Turkish lira with 392 00:21:30,783 --> 00:21:35,543 Bitcoin, and it might just save the Turkish lira, which is otherwise doomed. 393 00:21:35,954 --> 00:21:39,344 Yeah, that's, that's so fascinating though, because like, that's, that 394 00:21:39,344 --> 00:21:44,034 is, you know, there's no, there's no such thing as intrinsic value 395 00:21:44,034 --> 00:21:48,704 as you know, but this, this is like such a weird abstract, uh, mind, 396 00:21:49,221 --> 00:21:52,851 experiments with something that is just. 397 00:21:53,611 --> 00:21:55,121 Mathematics and, 398 00:21:55,586 --> 00:21:56,126 Yeah, 399 00:21:56,351 --> 00:22:02,394 and communication backing something that is just like I have a difficulty 400 00:22:02,394 --> 00:22:07,834 seeing how people wouldn't choose to self custody Bitcoin instead of, you 401 00:22:07,834 --> 00:22:10,074 know, using the Lira that is backed by 402 00:22:10,179 --> 00:22:13,299 they may, but if, you know, every Turkish lira was, you 403 00:22:13,299 --> 00:22:15,139 know, backed by a thousand sats. 404 00:22:15,574 --> 00:22:19,584 And one Turkish Lira was equal to a thousand sats, the Turkish 405 00:22:19,584 --> 00:22:23,934 Lira would maintain value and have value as Bitcoin had value. 406 00:22:24,664 --> 00:22:25,154 Yeah. 407 00:22:25,474 --> 00:22:30,514 Except you can do fractional on the Lira, but not on the Bitcoin base layer. 408 00:22:30,604 --> 00:22:33,704 So you could say that they're redeemable for this, but you could still do 409 00:22:33,704 --> 00:22:35,294 fractional reserve banking, right? 410 00:22:35,858 --> 00:22:36,418 Yes, 411 00:22:36,598 --> 00:22:38,438 In a way you can't on the base layer. 412 00:22:39,098 --> 00:22:39,458 So, 413 00:22:39,838 --> 00:22:39,998 Yeah. 414 00:22:39,998 --> 00:22:41,328 The government can still screw you. 415 00:22:41,678 --> 00:22:42,018 Right. 416 00:22:42,058 --> 00:22:42,618 Essentially. 417 00:22:42,838 --> 00:22:44,228 But my point is. 418 00:22:44,843 --> 00:22:46,213 They're completely screwed now. 419 00:22:46,473 --> 00:22:50,503 Like, it's obvious to anyone that the Turkish Lira is going the 420 00:22:50,503 --> 00:22:53,303 way of the Argentine Peso, right? 421 00:22:53,463 --> 00:22:55,363 Or Venezuelan currency, right? 422 00:22:55,433 --> 00:22:57,703 So, they can try to do something. 423 00:22:57,743 --> 00:22:59,873 This would be something good that would help. 424 00:23:00,143 --> 00:23:05,033 All of a sudden You know, if Turk, if, if they were honest about it and they didn't 425 00:23:05,033 --> 00:23:10,023 screw you and a Turkish lira was backed by some number of sats, people would want 426 00:23:10,023 --> 00:23:11,913 to, I would want to hold Turkish lira. 427 00:23:12,343 --> 00:23:15,193 I'd be like, wow, the Turkish lira is trading cheap right now to the 428 00:23:15,193 --> 00:23:16,593 number of sats it's backed by. 429 00:23:16,843 --> 00:23:19,803 There's some level of trust, you know, that maybe the government's 430 00:23:19,813 --> 00:23:21,533 going to honor it and really keep it. 431 00:23:21,883 --> 00:23:23,293 I'll stack some Turkish lira. 432 00:23:23,518 --> 00:23:25,868 Do you think they have any incentive to do so though? 433 00:23:26,098 --> 00:23:27,988 Like, why would the government do that? 434 00:23:28,448 --> 00:23:33,048 Well, every time, you know, a, a currency, you know, go, 435 00:23:33,048 --> 00:23:34,518 a fiat currency goes to zero. 436 00:23:34,523 --> 00:23:35,808 It's not, it's not good for the 437 00:23:35,978 --> 00:23:36,618 no, no, no, 438 00:23:36,828 --> 00:23:40,338 So, uh, that, I guess that's their incentive is take a shot. 439 00:23:40,338 --> 00:23:44,078 Like what is it if, if, if death, if death is inevitable? 440 00:23:44,078 --> 00:23:44,373 You, you 441 00:23:45,008 --> 00:23:45,133 it 442 00:23:45,168 --> 00:23:45,808 might as well. 443 00:23:45,848 --> 00:23:47,768 and by the way, it can happen at a municipal level. 444 00:23:47,768 --> 00:23:49,238 It doesn't have to be a national level. 445 00:23:49,478 --> 00:23:52,738 You could have like the, you know, the state of New York, you know, 446 00:23:52,738 --> 00:23:54,538 or New York City could issue bonds. 447 00:23:54,798 --> 00:23:58,848 And by Bitcoin with the proceeds, it worked out really well for micro strategy. 448 00:23:58,848 --> 00:24:02,008 Why wouldn't it work out well for a municipality or a 449 00:24:02,178 --> 00:24:03,508 No, no, yeah, 450 00:24:03,678 --> 00:24:06,738 Maybe I'm getting the, maybe I'm a little lost on the math here a little bit 451 00:24:06,748 --> 00:24:10,808 though, but when a currency is already hyperinflating, it's a bit of a risky 452 00:24:10,808 --> 00:24:16,788 game, right, to try and catch it, to inflate further to buy the Bitcoin, right? 453 00:24:16,868 --> 00:24:18,348 Like, is there some risk? 454 00:24:18,728 --> 00:24:20,038 Oh, of course, of course. 455 00:24:20,038 --> 00:24:23,428 I, well, there's a little bit of, yeah, there's risk, but you're, 456 00:24:23,668 --> 00:24:28,308 you're going to die, like you're, you're in critical condition, right? 457 00:24:28,308 --> 00:24:28,758 So. 458 00:24:29,083 --> 00:24:33,023 It depends, like, how high will Bitcoin go, right? 459 00:24:33,023 --> 00:24:37,263 If you're, if you're diluting yourself now, essentially, and inflating the 460 00:24:37,263 --> 00:24:44,243 currency now, but Bitcoin 1000Xs from where we are, and you, you know, inflate 461 00:24:44,243 --> 00:24:49,093 your currency by, you know, 100X, you're still going to get massive benefit. 462 00:24:49,663 --> 00:24:52,513 So the point is to get, to get some backing in Bitcoin. 463 00:24:52,513 --> 00:24:57,773 It is sort of tethered to a specific level and then that level can stay somewhat 464 00:24:57,803 --> 00:25:00,293 Right now, the Turkish Lira has no backing, right? 465 00:25:00,608 --> 00:25:00,768 no. 466 00:25:01,548 --> 00:25:04,938 The full faith and credit of the Turkish government, which is worth what? 467 00:25:05,348 --> 00:25:05,368 Yeah. 468 00:25:07,018 --> 00:25:08,768 They have more faith than credit, I think. 469 00:25:09,724 --> 00:25:10,064 so, 470 00:25:10,084 --> 00:25:10,734 That's good. 471 00:25:10,764 --> 00:25:11,114 Yes. 472 00:25:11,648 --> 00:25:15,838 speaking of fiat currencies, like right now, Bitcoin is at an all time high in 473 00:25:15,838 --> 00:25:19,008 a lot of fiat currencies, including the currency I grew up with, the Swedish 474 00:25:19,028 --> 00:25:21,968 krona, and also in the Norwegian kronas. 475 00:25:21,968 --> 00:25:27,088 It's, uh, because the Swedish krona lost 40 percent against 476 00:25:27,088 --> 00:25:29,218 the dollar in the last 10 years. 477 00:25:29,608 --> 00:25:32,258 And people in the country, like, no one talks about this. 478 00:25:32,298 --> 00:25:33,458 Everyone's oblivious to it. 479 00:25:33,458 --> 00:25:35,478 They, they don't realize what that means. 480 00:25:35,954 --> 00:25:39,724 but what it basically means is that you guys, well, not you personally, 481 00:25:39,794 --> 00:25:44,794 but the Fed printed stuff and stole all our stuff like that, that's, 482 00:25:44,884 --> 00:25:46,234 that's what's going on, right? 483 00:25:46,319 --> 00:25:47,279 That's exactly right. 484 00:25:47,314 --> 00:25:51,994 so, uh, so what do you think about these smaller national currencies? 485 00:25:52,304 --> 00:25:56,064 Are they, how close to hyperinflating are they in, in, in your view? 486 00:25:56,723 --> 00:26:02,883 I'm not a, I'm not a macroeconomist, but it is, it is clear that every 487 00:26:02,883 --> 00:26:08,223 currency is doing worse than the dollar and the dollar is doing poorly against 488 00:26:08,253 --> 00:26:10,373 truly scarce hard assets as well. 489 00:26:10,783 --> 00:26:13,396 So it's, it's just devastating. 490 00:26:13,886 --> 00:26:15,436 Um, how long it takes. 491 00:26:15,436 --> 00:26:21,626 I mean, there's what, 140 or something now, uh, no fiat currencies. 492 00:26:22,216 --> 00:26:26,306 In a hundred years, you know, I'd be surprised if there's more than 40. 493 00:26:27,081 --> 00:26:31,341 So, you know, what the timetable is, I don't know, but 494 00:26:32,021 --> 00:26:33,301 governments aren't going to stop. 495 00:26:33,361 --> 00:26:34,681 There's no way to stop. 496 00:26:35,111 --> 00:26:38,761 People have learned, people are power hungry. 497 00:26:38,851 --> 00:26:42,751 Politicians are power hungry, almost, you know, to a person. 498 00:26:42,761 --> 00:26:44,241 There's very few exceptions, right? 499 00:26:44,656 --> 00:26:47,606 And they've learned that they get elected by promising people shit 500 00:26:47,606 --> 00:26:48,886 that the government can't afford. 501 00:26:49,506 --> 00:26:53,956 And this is what they, and it's, it's not unique to a particular political party. 502 00:26:53,956 --> 00:26:55,016 Some are worse than others. 503 00:26:55,266 --> 00:26:57,666 But at the end of the day, they all spend money they don't have. 504 00:26:58,096 --> 00:27:02,646 And that cycle continues, and the government can try to misdirect, all 505 00:27:02,646 --> 00:27:06,036 governments can try to misdirect us that there's some other cause of the 506 00:27:06,036 --> 00:27:11,076 inflation, whether it's Putin's war, or greedy companies, or whatever it is. 507 00:27:11,076 --> 00:27:12,796 But at the end of the day, it's money supply. 508 00:27:13,406 --> 00:27:17,846 And they're not slowing down the increase in money supply. 509 00:27:17,856 --> 00:27:20,926 I mean, they are slowing it down, but just because it was so hyper 510 00:27:20,956 --> 00:27:22,976 crazy, but it's not stopping. 511 00:27:23,361 --> 00:27:23,601 Yeah. 512 00:27:23,601 --> 00:27:28,941 The, the way I see it is like the, the urge for there to be a free lunch is the 513 00:27:28,941 --> 00:27:31,701 root cause of all human problems almost. 514 00:27:32,306 --> 00:27:37,146 And also, like, the lag is what causes the problem, right? 515 00:27:37,551 --> 00:27:40,631 It's, uh, you can do this on your watch. 516 00:27:41,091 --> 00:27:45,021 The effect, the negative effects of what you've done happen, 517 00:27:45,091 --> 00:27:46,791 happen one chapter later. 518 00:27:47,081 --> 00:27:52,301 So you, the individuals that did this aren't going to get 519 00:27:52,571 --> 00:27:54,261 immediately killed for doing it. 520 00:27:54,311 --> 00:27:55,621 It's the next. 521 00:27:56,531 --> 00:27:58,511 Group that comes in that's gonna bear the burden. 522 00:27:58,741 --> 00:28:03,211 That's one of the, uh, inherent problems with democratic systems like the, they 523 00:28:03,211 --> 00:28:08,011 don't, uh, you're not incentivized as a politician to think long term. 524 00:28:08,101 --> 00:28:12,546 So that's why these narratives around monarchies being better long term 525 00:28:12,686 --> 00:28:14,991 is popping up in the Bitcoin space. 526 00:28:15,261 --> 00:28:18,291 Yeah, I have a, I mean, one of those things on that topic that always 527 00:28:18,291 --> 00:28:22,511 stuck with me is I have a friend who's in the uh, uh, selling defense 528 00:28:22,571 --> 00:28:27,791 related stuff, and they sell to like basically every nation state in the 529 00:28:27,791 --> 00:28:30,551 world, and they were talking to China. 530 00:28:30,821 --> 00:28:34,021 Actually, and the Chinese said, yeah, we're, we're interested. 531 00:28:34,291 --> 00:28:38,551 And he came back to him like a year later and he's like, you know, when 532 00:28:38,661 --> 00:28:41,511 we're interested, but we're not interested like now, soon though. 533 00:28:41,711 --> 00:28:43,541 And he said, well, what do you mean soon? 534 00:28:43,591 --> 00:28:47,331 And he's like, yeah, you know, come back to us in like 25, 30 years. 535 00:28:47,921 --> 00:28:51,991 So they're thinking in a hundred year cycles, whereas 536 00:28:52,001 --> 00:28:53,261 the United States government. 537 00:28:53,591 --> 00:28:56,201 is thinking in, you know, two to four year 538 00:28:56,391 --> 00:28:56,571 Yeah. 539 00:28:56,571 --> 00:28:56,871 Yeah. 540 00:28:56,876 --> 00:28:56,966 Yeah. 541 00:28:57,261 --> 00:28:57,581 right? 542 00:28:57,581 --> 00:28:59,531 And it's just a very different perspective. 543 00:28:59,749 --> 00:29:00,669 Very much so. 544 00:29:00,821 --> 00:29:04,741 Advantage, you know, monarchies or dictatorships. 545 00:29:04,806 --> 00:29:05,136 Yep. 546 00:29:06,076 --> 00:29:10,576 The US Congress two year cycle I think has got to be the worst almost in the whole 547 00:29:10,576 --> 00:29:12,936 world in terms of just this churn, right? 548 00:29:13,126 --> 00:29:16,106 The entire lower house has to be re elected every two years. 549 00:29:16,106 --> 00:29:17,186 How do you get anything done? 550 00:29:17,476 --> 00:29:19,546 That system just seems crazy. 551 00:29:19,751 --> 00:29:24,561 getting stuff done is overrated, but, uh, but, yeah, it's, 552 00:29:24,611 --> 00:29:26,241 it's clearly a broken system. 553 00:29:26,241 --> 00:29:30,561 And the fact that like a, a senator serves one term, and 554 00:29:30,751 --> 00:29:32,061 they get their salary for life. 555 00:29:33,401 --> 00:29:34,691 Absolutely ridiculous. 556 00:29:35,211 --> 00:29:40,131 Um, there, there are so many, there are so many broken things about the US system. 557 00:29:40,481 --> 00:29:45,971 I mean, the very fact that, um, they're not subject to the same rules that they 558 00:29:46,011 --> 00:29:49,971 create for the rest of the world, like Obamacare was another it's like, Hey, 559 00:29:49,971 --> 00:29:51,731 this healthcare system is good for you. 560 00:29:51,741 --> 00:29:52,671 Entire country. 561 00:29:52,921 --> 00:29:55,021 Oh, but members of Congress, we have our own. 562 00:29:55,031 --> 00:29:57,461 We're not, we're not subject to, to that nightmare. 563 00:29:57,461 --> 00:30:00,681 It's just, you know, very, very Messed up. 564 00:30:00,701 --> 00:30:04,731 There's a lot of misincentives and misalignment in all government and U. 565 00:30:04,731 --> 00:30:04,901 S. 566 00:30:04,901 --> 00:30:06,271 is no exception. 567 00:30:06,956 --> 00:30:10,986 Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, uh, like the clown world we see everywhere 568 00:30:10,986 --> 00:30:15,016 that the same rules do not apply to, like, and it should be so 569 00:30:15,016 --> 00:30:19,156 obvious in this interconnected world that we live in in 2024. 570 00:30:19,166 --> 00:30:21,376 Like, why don't the same laws apply 571 00:30:21,421 --> 00:30:21,631 Yeah. 572 00:30:21,631 --> 00:30:22,111 Rules for 573 00:30:22,111 --> 00:30:22,761 thee, but not for 574 00:30:22,946 --> 00:30:23,756 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 575 00:30:24,371 --> 00:30:27,491 It's like California lockdown, right? 576 00:30:27,521 --> 00:30:28,741 Like nobody can go anywhere. 577 00:30:28,741 --> 00:30:32,691 And then Gavin Newsom's at like, you know, Thomas Keller's 578 00:30:32,701 --> 00:30:34,321 restaurant, like having dinner. 579 00:30:34,321 --> 00:30:35,321 It's like, really? 580 00:30:35,391 --> 00:30:37,101 Like this is your state, you idiot. 581 00:30:37,111 --> 00:30:39,451 You can't even like follow your own mandates. 582 00:30:39,501 --> 00:30:40,151 It's amazing. 583 00:30:40,241 --> 00:30:41,801 Just the arrogance is amazing. 584 00:30:41,986 --> 00:30:46,956 Late stage, uh, lockdowns were, were an interesting time because I flew, I 585 00:30:46,956 --> 00:30:51,146 flew quite a lot then and you're seeing different airports having different rules. 586 00:30:51,146 --> 00:30:54,606 So in one airport, nobody gives a shit and then another, everyone's wearing 587 00:30:54,606 --> 00:30:56,566 the double diapers and whatever. 588 00:30:56,906 --> 00:30:57,716 And it's, yeah, 589 00:30:57,791 --> 00:31:01,741 And it was, it was, it was also not particularly commonsensical, right? 590 00:31:01,741 --> 00:31:07,271 I mean, there was one situation where, uh, they wouldn't let, uh, us leave a country. 591 00:31:07,271 --> 00:31:11,231 I was with some friends and they wouldn't let us leave a country unless we had. 592 00:31:11,301 --> 00:31:14,011 And we had COVID tests and proof of this and proof of that. 593 00:31:14,011 --> 00:31:14,351 Right. 594 00:31:14,711 --> 00:31:20,661 But we were getting on a friend's airplane and we were leaving the country 595 00:31:20,711 --> 00:31:23,091 on our own airplane by ourselves. 596 00:31:23,391 --> 00:31:27,731 If anybody on that airplane had anything, you want us leaving your country. 597 00:31:28,021 --> 00:31:32,121 Like, exporting us is the best thing you can do without risking any other people. 598 00:31:32,121 --> 00:31:32,361 Right. 599 00:31:32,581 --> 00:31:33,410 And it's like, it's 600 00:31:33,410 --> 00:31:33,610 Not for 601 00:31:33,610 --> 00:31:34,546 the other country though. 602 00:31:34,661 --> 00:31:36,461 yeah, well, but it wasn't them that cared. 603 00:31:36,461 --> 00:31:37,961 It was the people that wouldn't let us leave. 604 00:31:39,806 --> 00:31:40,736 Like, where's the thought? 605 00:31:40,746 --> 00:31:42,516 There's like no thought process whatsoever. 606 00:31:42,516 --> 00:31:46,798 It's just, you know, government regulation, overreach, massive overreach. 607 00:31:46,826 --> 00:31:46,901 It 608 00:31:46,946 --> 00:31:49,236 showed us how common sense is not very common. 609 00:31:49,396 --> 00:31:52,346 Yeah, but it, but it did shake up a lot of people. 610 00:31:52,386 --> 00:31:57,396 And one of the benefits of that was, um, you know, I've been talking 611 00:31:57,396 --> 00:32:01,816 about Bitcoin a lot since 2013, and Saylor wasn't particularly 612 00:32:01,816 --> 00:32:03,236 receptive to hearing about it. 613 00:32:03,526 --> 00:32:06,476 He's running a company with a couple thousand people fighting the likes 614 00:32:06,476 --> 00:32:11,681 of Microsoft and Salesforce every day, and it was only because of 615 00:32:11,821 --> 00:32:16,491 that lunacy in the world not making sense that I was able to, you know, 616 00:32:16,751 --> 00:32:17,791 get through to him at that time. 617 00:32:18,091 --> 00:32:18,221 So 618 00:32:18,251 --> 00:32:20,451 that played such a huge part in that. 619 00:32:20,621 --> 00:32:21,231 A hundred percent. 620 00:32:21,291 --> 00:32:22,991 It was the only reason he was receptive. 621 00:32:23,551 --> 00:32:24,221 Fantastic. 622 00:32:25,044 --> 00:32:25,244 Yeah. 623 00:32:25,244 --> 00:32:25,904 He remembers. 624 00:32:25,904 --> 00:32:28,884 I said something to him like we were, we were at his house 625 00:32:28,894 --> 00:32:31,044 quarantining there because it's very 626 00:32:31,464 --> 00:32:33,844 I would quarantine there too, if I had the option. 627 00:32:33,964 --> 00:32:34,474 Yeah, yeah. 628 00:32:34,614 --> 00:32:36,124 It's better, much better than my apartment. 629 00:32:36,464 --> 00:32:39,734 Um, not that my apartment's not great, but his, his place is spectacular. 630 00:32:39,734 --> 00:32:43,034 So we were, we were, the two of us were kind of hanging out 631 00:32:43,034 --> 00:32:44,554 quarantining there every day. 632 00:32:45,004 --> 00:32:48,544 And, um, trying to make sense of what was happening in the world stock 633 00:32:48,544 --> 00:32:52,364 market going up while every business is closed and the world is coming to 634 00:32:52,364 --> 00:32:56,404 a stop and unbeknownst to me, he was very concerned about MicroStrategy's 635 00:32:56,424 --> 00:33:02,064 situation, having 500 million in cash and, you know, thinking inflation is 636 00:33:02,064 --> 00:33:06,344 taking away 10 percent of this 50 million a year, I'm losing in purchasing power. 637 00:33:06,344 --> 00:33:10,084 And meanwhile, 2000 people are working For his company in the hopes that 638 00:33:10,084 --> 00:33:13,154 the company makes 50 million a year and it's like a treadmill, right? 639 00:33:13,164 --> 00:33:14,344 Just like you're never gonna get anywhere. 640 00:33:14,344 --> 00:33:16,154 So he was looking for stores of value. 641 00:33:16,414 --> 00:33:20,384 I didn't know that part And then when I brought up Bitcoin, I said he 642 00:33:20,384 --> 00:33:24,244 remembers me saying something like anytime there's a paradigm shift, you 643 00:33:24,244 --> 00:33:25,744 know Like this there's opportunity. 644 00:33:25,744 --> 00:33:29,139 We just have to find the opportunity And then I didn't connect the two, but 645 00:33:29,139 --> 00:33:32,049 I started talking about Bitcoin again, because that's what we do, right? 646 00:33:32,419 --> 00:33:36,269 And, uh, this time, instead of dismissing the conversation, Michael 647 00:33:36,369 --> 00:33:37,809 said, Tell me more about that. 648 00:33:37,849 --> 00:33:42,189 And I was like, what And, uh, so that, that's how we started 649 00:33:42,189 --> 00:33:44,609 and then spent, I don't know, the better part of a few weeks. 650 00:33:45,119 --> 00:33:48,419 Talking about Bitcoin and, uh, yeah, that's how it started. 651 00:33:48,768 --> 00:33:49,558 That's fantastic. 652 00:33:49,788 --> 00:33:53,688 And like, Michael is not the only intelligent person in the world. 653 00:33:53,778 --> 00:33:58,308 There are, I'm sure there are plenty others that have, like, 654 00:33:58,398 --> 00:34:01,598 had similar stories that might not be as vocal about it. 655 00:34:01,948 --> 00:34:03,608 But these things are happening everywhere 656 00:34:03,753 --> 00:34:04,183 They are. 657 00:34:04,348 --> 00:34:07,638 that's what I thought when I left, left my last Fiat position and, 658 00:34:07,668 --> 00:34:11,838 and, um, back in Sweden, like, uh, I'm the dork here in this office 659 00:34:12,238 --> 00:34:14,518 that goes around being a maniac. 660 00:34:14,898 --> 00:34:20,158 And, uh, but, but there are plenty, plenty like me and we're all around the world. 661 00:34:20,158 --> 00:34:22,918 So when you go to these conferences and these meetups, it feels 662 00:34:22,918 --> 00:34:25,028 small, but we're everywhere. 663 00:34:25,438 --> 00:34:30,578 Like it is really, I mean, every little one horse town in any country. 664 00:34:31,123 --> 00:34:33,183 It's all about, it's all about individuals. 665 00:34:33,183 --> 00:34:37,353 I don't want to steal too much from Michael's presentation in a, in a 666 00:34:37,623 --> 00:34:42,383 couple hours, but at the end of the day, everything is comprised of individuals, 667 00:34:42,383 --> 00:34:44,263 whether it's government, corporations. 668 00:34:44,848 --> 00:34:45,598 Families. 669 00:34:45,598 --> 00:34:47,938 And so everything is at the individual level, right? 670 00:34:48,168 --> 00:34:53,768 So you, when I orange pilled, for lack of a better term, sailor, right, I was 671 00:34:53,768 --> 00:34:58,208 talking to my friend is a one on one thing, but he had a company, right? 672 00:34:58,368 --> 00:35:01,138 And I wasn't trying to orange pill micro strategy. 673 00:35:01,563 --> 00:35:05,363 I was just trying to explain to my really smart friend why this is 674 00:35:05,363 --> 00:35:07,113 cool and perhaps really meaningful. 675 00:35:07,363 --> 00:35:10,873 And then he's part of a company, he's got political views, 676 00:35:10,883 --> 00:35:12,213 he's got whatever he's got. 677 00:35:12,473 --> 00:35:15,763 And so it's one individual impacts all these different areas. 678 00:35:15,853 --> 00:35:19,583 So at the end of the day, everything comes down to one on one communication 679 00:35:19,583 --> 00:35:20,943 or education and individuals. 680 00:35:21,168 --> 00:35:26,198 yeah, and that's, that's such a beautiful, that's what Bitcoin points out to people 681 00:35:26,508 --> 00:35:31,728 because at the end of the day, the Bitcoin are the people, like we have, 682 00:35:32,008 --> 00:35:36,938 if you have a private key or know the location of it, it's in your head, so 683 00:35:36,958 --> 00:35:41,438 effectively you are the Bitcoin, so it's about us and it's about us as individuals. 684 00:35:42,433 --> 00:35:42,963 Beautiful. 685 00:35:43,193 --> 00:35:43,773 it's true, man. 686 00:35:43,773 --> 00:35:44,463 It is beautiful. 687 00:35:44,473 --> 00:35:50,483 The other thing is, it's, um, it requires a lot of either courage or, 688 00:35:51,324 --> 00:35:54,004 Confidence in oneself to see Bitcoin. 689 00:35:54,494 --> 00:35:57,714 You know, it's like you can, your friend can tell you about Bitcoin. 690 00:35:57,724 --> 00:35:59,414 Someone can tell you, this is cool stuff. 691 00:35:59,414 --> 00:36:02,244 And you can think, okay, this person's really smart. 692 00:36:02,244 --> 00:36:02,884 I respect them. 693 00:36:02,884 --> 00:36:03,374 I like them. 694 00:36:03,374 --> 00:36:05,084 Maybe I'll, maybe I'll get some Bitcoin. 695 00:36:05,654 --> 00:36:10,484 And then you live through some Bitcoin cycles, but it goes down 50%. 696 00:36:10,819 --> 00:36:14,989 And it's almost impossible for you to have the conviction in this because your smart 697 00:36:14,999 --> 00:36:17,389 friend, you know, has conviction in this. 698 00:36:17,809 --> 00:36:20,379 You've got to do your own work and your own research. 699 00:36:20,649 --> 00:36:24,229 And if you've put in the time and you've spent, you know, a thousand 700 00:36:24,229 --> 00:36:27,879 hours looking into this, then when it goes down, if you really have 701 00:36:27,899 --> 00:36:31,189 conviction, a la Warren Buffett with the stocks that he invests in, right? 702 00:36:31,419 --> 00:36:32,709 When it goes down, you're happy. 703 00:36:33,989 --> 00:36:35,409 It's a really weird concept. 704 00:36:35,419 --> 00:36:36,949 People don't believe it when we say it. 705 00:36:37,304 --> 00:36:40,764 But you're like, Oh shit, I can get more for less. 706 00:36:41,344 --> 00:36:41,724 Right. 707 00:36:41,764 --> 00:36:44,514 And it's a, it's a great experience because you're so 708 00:36:44,544 --> 00:36:46,154 confident in where it's going. 709 00:36:46,404 --> 00:36:49,404 Like selling when it goes down is not, you know, it's not even a thing. 710 00:36:49,444 --> 00:36:49,824 Right. 711 00:36:50,164 --> 00:36:55,504 So it's just a very different mindset, but it only comes from the confidence and 712 00:36:55,824 --> 00:36:57,674 self security to do your own research. 713 00:36:58,494 --> 00:37:02,454 That's not to say that we're not all super excited when it pumps, but, right? 714 00:37:02,686 --> 00:37:02,936 Yeah. 715 00:37:02,936 --> 00:37:07,006 No, there's a, the price in fiat terms. 716 00:37:07,676 --> 00:37:13,666 As I see it is also like, it's the best thing we have to as a proxy for adoption. 717 00:37:14,416 --> 00:37:18,706 And so it's kind of like, you know, because it's supply demand 718 00:37:18,906 --> 00:37:21,256 and when we see demand, it means. 719 00:37:22,426 --> 00:37:25,556 We're winning in the sense that more people are adopting it. 720 00:37:25,686 --> 00:37:27,626 And that's, what's super exciting about it. 721 00:37:27,896 --> 00:37:32,416 You know, the fact that I'm never going to sell my Bitcoin does make some 722 00:37:32,416 --> 00:37:34,626 of those questions at the beginning, a little more challenging, like, 723 00:37:34,626 --> 00:37:38,506 well, how am I going to do the nice stuff that I want to do for my life? 724 00:37:39,176 --> 00:37:42,586 The family that I don't currently have and like, you know, whatever else 725 00:37:42,586 --> 00:37:46,336 down the road or whatever material things I may want or whatever. 726 00:37:46,566 --> 00:37:47,956 And like, we'll figure that out. 727 00:37:47,956 --> 00:37:50,926 But right now, like, that's not the concern. 728 00:37:50,996 --> 00:37:52,876 It's like, let's, let's get there first. 729 00:37:53,386 --> 00:37:56,425 Let me see, you know, Bitcoin 500, 000. 730 00:37:56,426 --> 00:37:59,006 Let me see us at least equal gold. 731 00:37:59,426 --> 00:38:04,046 I think the, the clearest analogy and clearest path for Bitcoin in my mind 732 00:38:04,266 --> 00:38:06,146 and the most constructive narrative. 733 00:38:06,516 --> 00:38:11,076 Going back to what we said about kind of pitting Bitcoin against a fiat currency, I 734 00:38:11,076 --> 00:38:17,916 think that's like really counterproductive and maybe unnecessary, right? 735 00:38:18,316 --> 00:38:22,136 Uh, for Bitcoin to hit 600, 000 in US dollar terms, that's just 736 00:38:22,136 --> 00:38:24,006 the equivalent of gold, right? 737 00:38:24,316 --> 00:38:25,696 In 12 trillion dollars, right? 738 00:38:25,876 --> 00:38:32,896 And so every time in history that a digital successor has gone after an 739 00:38:32,906 --> 00:38:35,516 analog predecessor, it hasn't equaled it. 740 00:38:35,796 --> 00:38:40,936 It's like crushed it, whether you think of like automobiles versus, you 741 00:38:40,936 --> 00:38:45,526 know, like horse and buggies or mobile phones versus rotary phones, this 742 00:38:45,526 --> 00:38:48,476 is Bitcoin verse analog gold, right? 743 00:38:48,716 --> 00:38:52,145 So, okay, let's get to 600, 000 of Bitcoin. 744 00:38:52,466 --> 00:38:52,846 Right? 745 00:38:52,936 --> 00:38:57,546 And then let's see what happens if it goes to 10x that, right? 746 00:38:57,556 --> 00:38:59,056 And we're at 6 million of Bitcoin. 747 00:38:59,326 --> 00:39:01,256 These other things are going to take care of themselves. 748 00:39:01,426 --> 00:39:03,286 We don't need to fight those battles now. 749 00:39:03,466 --> 00:39:05,976 Let's just fight the battle of being a digital gold, 750 00:39:05,976 --> 00:39:07,856 which nobody's threatened by. 751 00:39:08,156 --> 00:39:09,046 Everybody accepts. 752 00:39:09,056 --> 00:39:13,036 No nation state is concerned if you want to be a digital gold. 753 00:39:13,046 --> 00:39:13,636 That's great. 754 00:39:13,976 --> 00:39:17,866 You start talking about taking out their fiat currency, you're going to 755 00:39:17,866 --> 00:39:20,986 get holy hell from that nation state. 756 00:39:21,656 --> 00:39:22,246 Yeah. 757 00:39:22,426 --> 00:39:23,506 be a digital cold. 758 00:39:23,526 --> 00:39:23,736 Yeah. 759 00:39:23,736 --> 00:39:24,076 Yeah. 760 00:39:24,116 --> 00:39:26,186 Gold is just Bitcoin for boomers, isn't it? 761 00:39:26,696 --> 00:39:27,056 Yeah. 762 00:39:27,346 --> 00:39:30,786 So it goes away with that generation. 763 00:39:31,166 --> 00:39:31,926 hundred percent. 764 00:39:32,256 --> 00:39:35,326 Only unlike other technologies and things, we don't have to wait for 765 00:39:35,326 --> 00:39:39,796 that generation to die completely because people can dip a toe, right? 766 00:39:39,996 --> 00:39:42,846 They can do a 1 percent allocation, even though it's like, you know, 767 00:39:42,846 --> 00:39:44,006 they'll call it schmuck insurance. 768 00:39:44,006 --> 00:39:45,686 They'll be like, all right, these kids may be right. 769 00:39:45,896 --> 00:39:47,586 And this is what a lot of my investors do. 770 00:39:47,596 --> 00:39:48,186 You know, these are. 771 00:39:48,661 --> 00:39:52,701 You know, big family offices with many, many hundreds of millions 772 00:39:52,701 --> 00:39:56,891 of dollars and they're like, okay, my son, my grandson, this, that, 773 00:39:56,891 --> 00:39:58,371 whatever, they keep talking about it. 774 00:39:58,371 --> 00:40:01,461 Now it's on CNBC, now the SEC approved it. 775 00:40:01,671 --> 00:40:05,511 It's like, okay, you know what, let's get a few million dollars worth of that 776 00:40:05,511 --> 00:40:10,291 stuff just in case my kid is right, you know, and that's, that's how it starts. 777 00:40:10,828 --> 00:40:11,208 Interesting. 778 00:40:11,428 --> 00:40:13,028 You used the word schmuck there. 779 00:40:13,088 --> 00:40:17,438 I saw Larry David once explain the difference between a schmuck and a prick. 780 00:40:17,808 --> 00:40:23,528 And the difference is that there's no such thing as a rich schmuck, and 781 00:40:23,528 --> 00:40:25,398 there's no such thing as a poor prick. 782 00:40:25,848 --> 00:40:27,198 It's always the other way around. 783 00:40:27,468 --> 00:40:30,318 But I think Bitcoin allows for rich schmucks. 784 00:40:30,498 --> 00:40:31,578 Yes, it does. 785 00:40:31,778 --> 00:40:33,018 And that's liberating. 786 00:40:33,158 --> 00:40:35,088 we should be careful not to become pricks 787 00:40:35,288 --> 00:40:36,058 Exactly, 788 00:40:36,098 --> 00:40:37,248 the fiat price goes 789 00:40:37,458 --> 00:40:39,858 no, have fun staying boar pricks. 790 00:40:39,878 --> 00:40:40,098 Yeah. 791 00:40:40,158 --> 00:40:40,648 Exactly. 792 00:41:19,082 --> 00:41:21,352 So, how are, how are you finding, uh, things, Omid, there? 793 00:41:21,352 --> 00:41:24,622 I know you, you just got in, but, uh, what's your impression of, of, 794 00:41:24,672 --> 00:41:27,812 uh, what's going on so far that you've seen, uh, in the last, I 795 00:41:27,812 --> 00:41:28,962 don't know, 12 hours or something? 796 00:41:29,122 --> 00:41:29,452 Yeah. 797 00:41:29,452 --> 00:41:34,932 So the last, uh, the last couple of years of conferences have been great. 798 00:41:35,022 --> 00:41:36,682 Bitcoiners are always positive. 799 00:41:37,002 --> 00:41:39,842 It's remarkable to me just how positive. 800 00:41:40,167 --> 00:41:44,927 A group of people we are, and it's always fun to be around Bitcoiners, but 801 00:41:44,947 --> 00:41:50,637 I'm really excited for this conference because it's the first one we've had 802 00:41:50,637 --> 00:41:52,667 in a long time where price has been up. 803 00:41:53,092 --> 00:41:58,102 And so it does, it does feel good and it doesn't necessarily feel good 804 00:41:58,112 --> 00:42:00,372 because people are like, Oh, cool. 805 00:42:00,442 --> 00:42:02,712 I'm wealthier now on paper. 806 00:42:02,972 --> 00:42:06,142 It feels good because we talk to the people we love. 807 00:42:06,162 --> 00:42:10,062 We tell them about Bitcoin, your aunt, your uncle, your brothers, 808 00:42:10,062 --> 00:42:11,652 your sisters, your friends. 809 00:42:11,997 --> 00:42:16,407 You know, have bought Bitcoin because you've told them to buy Bitcoin and 810 00:42:16,407 --> 00:42:18,767 now, you know, they're in profit. 811 00:42:18,787 --> 00:42:20,427 So we're like, okay, good. 812 00:42:20,447 --> 00:42:22,927 It's working out for the people that I love, right? 813 00:42:23,157 --> 00:42:25,337 So people are in an extra good mood. 814 00:42:25,567 --> 00:42:27,557 Everybody's smiling, hugging people. 815 00:42:27,707 --> 00:42:29,977 Everybody's happy to see one another. 816 00:42:30,217 --> 00:42:32,207 And it's just, it's a, it's a great feeling. 817 00:42:32,207 --> 00:42:35,417 And, you know, as my friend Jared says, we deserve this. 818 00:42:35,781 --> 00:42:39,771 Yeah, yeah, that's the feeling I had last night at that reception. 819 00:42:39,771 --> 00:42:44,191 It's like, these are all my favorite people in the world in the same room. 820 00:42:44,241 --> 00:42:49,651 It's just fantastic, mind blowing to be in, among such a group of people. 821 00:42:49,651 --> 00:42:52,111 It's just, and I think everyone feels the same way. 822 00:42:52,251 --> 00:42:55,881 Everyone, you see, everyone is almost and Tears because of 823 00:42:55,881 --> 00:42:57,781 how beautiful the, the group 824 00:42:57,971 --> 00:43:00,411 Well, Bitcoin is a truth network, you know, and so 825 00:43:00,411 --> 00:43:02,451 you've got advocates of truth. 826 00:43:02,956 --> 00:43:06,386 And when advocates of truth find other advocates of truth, 827 00:43:06,686 --> 00:43:09,266 it's a warm embrace, right? 828 00:43:09,336 --> 00:43:12,896 Like it's just, you know, everybody's kind of on the side 829 00:43:12,896 --> 00:43:15,016 of honesty and fairness and good. 830 00:43:15,336 --> 00:43:17,506 And it's a, it's a nice group of people to be around. 831 00:43:17,631 --> 00:43:18,021 Yeah. 832 00:43:18,021 --> 00:43:22,921 And I, I think the, the further we go into them, the more Bitcoin only oriented 833 00:43:22,931 --> 00:43:27,321 these conference become, the more we've weeded out the bad seeds and we're with, 834 00:43:27,351 --> 00:43:32,241 it's, it's like you've boiled down this wonderful beef stock that's, it's just, 835 00:43:32,296 --> 00:43:34,176 What do you mean as who, who are we, what do you mean? 836 00:43:34,176 --> 00:43:35,756 Like shit coiners and stuff like that? 837 00:43:35,756 --> 00:43:35,946 Or 838 00:43:35,971 --> 00:43:36,591 and stuff like that. 839 00:43:36,591 --> 00:43:40,101 They're like, if you go back five years, there were a lot more shit corners at 840 00:43:40,156 --> 00:43:45,306 there were, but, but I, I'm a, I'm of the belief that there are no 841 00:43:45,666 --> 00:43:50,596 bad holders of Bitcoin and there are no wrong ways to hold Bitcoin. 842 00:43:50,906 --> 00:43:53,086 I am a, I'm a freedom maximalist. 843 00:43:53,441 --> 00:43:57,561 And if someone wants to hold, you know, some Bitcoin and a bunch of 844 00:43:57,561 --> 00:44:00,301 shit coins and a bunch of stocks and a bunch of real estate and a 845 00:44:00,301 --> 00:44:02,601 bunch of fiat currency, awesome. 846 00:44:03,331 --> 00:44:06,371 It's better than them doing that and not holding Bitcoin. 847 00:44:06,622 --> 00:44:07,891 good for Bitcoin 848 00:44:08,071 --> 00:44:08,611 type of thing. 849 00:44:08,831 --> 00:44:09,041 Yeah. 850 00:44:09,301 --> 00:44:14,111 but also like, you know, I just, um, it's, it's always been something that's been a 851 00:44:14,111 --> 00:44:19,411 little perplexing to me is how Bitcoiners can be such advocates of freedom, but then 852 00:44:19,411 --> 00:44:21,661 also want to dictate how people should 853 00:44:21,731 --> 00:44:25,631 Oh yeah, no, no, no, no, I'm not saying we want to do that, dictate 854 00:44:25,631 --> 00:44:27,071 how anyone else should live. 855 00:44:27,511 --> 00:44:31,791 But I'm, yeah, from just the quality of event type perspective, 856 00:44:32,111 --> 00:44:32,516 It's great. 857 00:44:32,691 --> 00:44:37,076 It's great to be around like minded people who are All happy and cheerful, 858 00:44:37,386 --> 00:44:41,636 but I, I do see a lot on X, not, not at all from you, just like in general 859 00:44:41,646 --> 00:44:46,996 from, you know, a lot of, uh, this, this toxicity of the maximalists, you 860 00:44:46,996 --> 00:44:53,086 know, whether it's ETF related or, you know, all of these institutions, 861 00:44:53,176 --> 00:44:57,906 all of these different holders of some kind, they do bring something of value 862 00:44:57,906 --> 00:45:01,756 to Bitcoin and we know that Bitcoin brings tremendous value to them. 863 00:45:02,181 --> 00:45:05,801 And I think, you know, in my mind, it's all holders are welcome. 864 00:45:06,271 --> 00:45:09,891 You know, if Putin wants to hold Bitcoin, man, awesome, dude. 865 00:45:10,441 --> 00:45:12,211 Like, you know, hold the Bitcoin. 866 00:45:12,521 --> 00:45:14,141 There's, there are no bad holders. 867 00:45:14,341 --> 00:45:18,651 no, more importantly, that's not up to any one of us, and that's By design, 868 00:45:18,751 --> 00:45:20,301 that's the beauty of the system. 869 00:45:20,541 --> 00:45:22,691 But the other beauty of it is they have no more influence. 870 00:45:23,141 --> 00:45:23,481 Right? 871 00:45:23,481 --> 00:45:24,291 Like it's, yeah. 872 00:45:24,311 --> 00:45:28,551 Sailor, sailor with all his Bitcoin, you know, by virtue of 873 00:45:28,551 --> 00:45:31,621 holding the Bitcoin has no more influence, which is thing of beauty. 874 00:45:32,876 --> 00:45:35,716 that's not true for the dollar, at all. 875 00:45:35,741 --> 00:45:38,121 At all political influences purchased. 876 00:45:38,938 --> 00:45:41,338 Anyway, like, where can people find you online? 877 00:45:41,348 --> 00:45:44,028 Like, what are you currently working on? 878 00:45:44,048 --> 00:45:45,158 Like, what's anything you 879 00:45:45,233 --> 00:45:45,740 on Twitter 880 00:45:46,033 --> 00:45:47,973 or X or whatever it's called these days. 881 00:45:48,458 --> 00:45:50,628 And I think my Twitter is 882 00:45:51,048 --> 00:45:51,818 Yeah, it's Twitter. 883 00:45:51,918 --> 00:45:52,458 It's Twitter. 884 00:45:52,478 --> 00:45:53,588 Let's be honest, it's Twitter. 885 00:45:53,588 --> 00:45:54,058 Yeah, yeah. 886 00:45:54,278 --> 00:45:57,598 you know, don't want to, whatever Elon wants to call it is fine with 887 00:45:57,683 --> 00:45:57,938 me. 888 00:45:58,278 --> 00:45:58,738 Um, 889 00:45:58,938 --> 00:45:59,658 but what am I? 890 00:45:59,658 --> 00:46:05,218 I'm Eric underscore, uh, BIG fund, Bitcoin and Bitcoin investment group fund. 891 00:46:05,723 --> 00:46:10,373 Yeah, yeah, I, yeah, so it's not just that the fund is big, it's, yeah, okay. 892 00:46:10,723 --> 00:46:13,703 fund is unfortunately not as big as we would like it to be, but it's an 893 00:46:13,703 --> 00:46:15,503 acronym for Bitcoin Investment Group. 894 00:46:15,903 --> 00:46:20,593 Um, yeah, so, and really what I'm just working on is just, you know, education, 895 00:46:20,593 --> 00:46:22,753 explaining to folks that are interested. 896 00:46:23,033 --> 00:46:26,283 Um, I'm no longer explaining to folks that aren't interested. 897 00:46:26,683 --> 00:46:28,703 So that, that's been a big change. 898 00:46:29,033 --> 00:46:33,853 Um, I, I, I wouldn't phrase it in terms of like, I no longer have the time or 899 00:46:33,853 --> 00:46:37,783 patience, but there are enough people that want to know, that are genuinely curious. 900 00:46:38,143 --> 00:46:42,213 And I focus my efforts in those groups as opposed to trying to 901 00:46:42,213 --> 00:46:43,943 convert people who are opposed to it. 902 00:46:44,173 --> 00:46:47,723 And in some way, I'm actually like, content for them not to get it. 903 00:46:48,063 --> 00:46:48,913 Yeah, yeah, yeah, 904 00:46:49,153 --> 00:46:52,413 Let, let them fall into the everyone gets Bitcoin at the price they deserve 905 00:46:52,643 --> 00:46:53,393 exactly. 906 00:46:53,413 --> 00:46:56,873 Like you either take the orange pill now or the orange suppository later. 907 00:46:56,873 --> 00:46:58,233 That's, that's a choice you got. 908 00:46:58,288 --> 00:47:02,148 I so badly wanted to tweet that once and I just, I, I, 909 00:47:02,473 --> 00:47:03,183 Samsung beat 910 00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:03,633 me to 911 00:47:03,708 --> 00:47:07,118 I had another version of it and I just thought, I can't do that. 912 00:47:07,148 --> 00:47:08,448 That's a little too off brand. 913 00:47:08,448 --> 00:47:09,118 I just can't do it. 914 00:47:09,218 --> 00:47:10,238 But, but I wanted to. 915 00:47:11,783 --> 00:47:16,303 All right, EEric thank you so much for doing this and great to have you in Europe 916 00:47:16,443 --> 00:47:18,283 and, um, yeah, good luck with everything. 917 00:47:18,368 --> 00:47:18,828 with you guys. 918 00:47:19,552 --> 00:47:21,712 This has been the Freedom Footprint Show, thanks for listening. 919 00:47:21,777 --> 00:47:24,897 Yes, if you can't see Luke, this has been the Freedom Footprint Show. 920 00:47:25,627 --> 00:47:28,847 Press the goddamn like button and, you know, brush your teeth and all that. 921 00:47:28,852 --> 00:47:29,902 Oh yeah, we're keeping that in. 922 00:47:30,442 --> 00:47:30,772 Cheers! 923 00:47:31,222 --> 00:47:31,962 Thanks again, Eric. 924 00:47:32,467 --> 00:47:33,027 do I look?