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I've spoken about this with many Bitcoiners, and I think as humans, we

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who have been attracted to Bitcoin, have come to Bitcoin quite literally

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from the beginning of our lives.

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And if you speak to some Bitcoiners, they'll say, I've been in search of

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Bitcoin And this was the path for me, I just didn't know it until I found Bitcoin,

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and that was definitely the case for me.

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Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint show, the Bitcoin

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philosophy show with Knut Svanholm and me, Luke the Pseudo Finn.

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And today we have our friend, Roger 9000.

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We've seen him at a bunch of Bitcoin conferences and we've had

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a lot of deep and meaningful, so to say, like our friends like to say.

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And we're really excited to have him on the show.

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Quick introduction is that he's a Bitcoiner, musician, Kakao ceremonialist.

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So let's dive into it.

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We'll definitely have to explain that last one.

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So Roger, welcome to the Freedom Footprint show.

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Thanks for joining us.

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Ah, gentlemen, thank you for having me.

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I'm very excited.

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And so are we, Roger.

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And like, the first question to you is obvious.

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OutKast has Andre 3000, but Bitcoin has Roger 9000.

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Where did the 9000 come from?

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okay, so nine is my lucky number.

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So, that one was pretty easy for me.

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Bitcoin became something Very, um, well, it's a funny thing because I was very

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deep into Stanley Kubrick, my brother's a bit of an actor, and, so Stanley

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Kubrick was quite at the forefront of my mind, and, HAL 9000, if you know,

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Yeah.

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Odyssey 2001, so, yeah, probably my favourite film ever.

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yeah, Hal was probably the most, how do I put this, the most human creature in

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that film, and has always stuck with me.

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So, Hal, the 9000 is definitely a reference to Hal.

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I was actually going to call myself Hal 9000 as a musician, I was thinking

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about dropping Roger altogether.

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and then the, the Powerball meme, you know, the, the over 9000

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thing happened, and, um, it just seemed applicable to Bitcoin.

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So yeah, 9000.

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Hal was already taken in Bitcoin

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that was already taken.

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And, but yeah, exactly.

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so what's the cacao thing?

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Cacao ceremonies?

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What is this thing?

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so I like to think of the ceremony itself as like a practice of,

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manifesting your intentions.

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That probably needs a bit of breaking down.

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Like, your intention being, they talk about it in terms

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of setting your intention.

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And your intention is essentially a truth for yourself, which is, which is

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what I like to consider truth in terms of like, we, we know We have the truth

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when it comes to a Bitcoin transaction, and that's verified in, in a sort of

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global, in a sort of, um, a network way.

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your intention is really verified by yourself, in a way, the

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practicing of manifesting it.

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in the real world is kind of what the idea of the ceremony is.

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So you have the ceremony, which is like this, you could call it a bit

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cathartic in a way, if, if, um, you've ever been to, well, I mean, there is

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this sort of opening up of the self in front of An audience, which I, you

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know, as, as a, as a performer, there is something cathartic about being

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totally yourself in front of an audience.

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but there's an internal thing, and we can talk about, well, actually.

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The, the sort of, the background as, as, from a shaman point of

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view and all that kind of stuff, I, I don't know enough about that.

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I'm, I'm actually still learning that side of things, but I feel like Bitcoin

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really, really is this internal journey in the same way that the Cacao ceremony is

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trying to Initiate this internal journey.

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So the Cacao ceremony is the practicing of the manifesting or the

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bringing out of, um, the intention, which is, which is yourself.

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And then the Kakao is the medicine for the activation of that intention.

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So it literally becomes, and you sort of turn it into a medicine, but it also

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works through you as a medicine as well.

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And there's this amazing, There's an amazing practice that's also shamanic,

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which is, um, and the study of, this practice is, um, Kurundirismo, which

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is, um, this kind of plant medicine study, And essentially, you know,

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whether it's ayahuasca or cacao, it's, it's all in a sense, the healing

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through medicine power, through plant, plant medicine, essentially.

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So I can, I can get into the depths of how Bitcoin and cacao, um, I

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gave this presentation in, um, El Salvador, called the, the, the

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beautiful balance of Bitcoin and cacao.

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Because I believe they both operate as balancing forces in the world,

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essentially, in a, in a sort of macro sense, in a sort of individual

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physical way, and, and more importantly, in a, in a metaphysical,

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in a metaphysical way as well.

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So it's, the ceremony, um, it, it's sort of a bit out there, I think, for,

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technical people in the Bitcoin space, but I actually feel like there's more

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and more people in Bitcoin who are gravitating towards this concept of, you

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know, and this Jungian concept of the individuation process, really, which is

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all about the purification of the self.

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And, you know, this is a, this is, this is, you know, I mean, Campbell called

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it the hero's journey, Jung called it The individual, individuation process.

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But it's essentially this finding yourself, finding your path

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and then following your path.

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And the Kakao Ceremony really helps in that manifesting.

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And Bitcoin is all about finding your truth and finding

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your, yourself essentially.

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That, essentially what.

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I believe Bitcoin's here to do.

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Um, we can get into, into how, and, and how timely Bitcoin is as well,

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because it really is such a beautiful balance that Bitcoin brings us when

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we, when we, need it so important, so, you know, so urgently right now.

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This reminds me of a conversation I had back when I was playing music.

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We had a gig and there were some other some other bands on stage as well,

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and one of them, um, a friend of mine was singing in that band and he, he,

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he told me about the importance of, uh, you know, knowing that it's an act

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and it's as soon as you go on stage, uh, you become this, uh, alter ego

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persona and, and it's all theater.

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And I thought, wait a minute, for me it's the exact opposite, like, this is

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the act, you know, of being in Fiatland and having a career and stuff, and

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whenever I go on a stage and just, then all bets are off, and it's not an act

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anymore, I can just scream out whatever Whatever I want to scream about or, or

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like, like that's, that's not an act.

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That's the purest thing.

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So, so I think, uh, and, and I enjoy artists and, and music, uh, and, you

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know, films or whatever that are more like that, that, that where the, the

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art is not the act, but, but the purest thing, and it's sort of acknowledging

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that everything else is an act.

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think that's, and, and, and the mask of God is essentially what

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you're describing there, right?

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You're, describing the fact that we all wear this mask.

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and the divine principle within us all is what is dying to kind of come out.

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We, we don't know it.

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And we, and, you know, I've spoken about this with Izzy as well, you know.

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We don't really know ourself, but I know Izzy is all about, you know, it's all

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about know thyself, and that's true, it's all about trying to get to know

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yourself, but in that same paradox, I guess, of the answer is there is no

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answer, you have to be comfortable with Just knowing that you kind of don't

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know what's about to come out of you.

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And when you let go, which I think is what you're kind of saying there when you

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let go on stage, or when you let go in a caco ceremony, for example, there is

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this honesty, there is this authenticness that you don't even know is coming.

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that's incredible.

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That's, you know, I've, I've had that experience in kakuseremony and I've,

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I've, I've cried or I've, I've had visions or I've, and I don't know,

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maybe, and I haven't done ayahuasca, but maybe, maybe that kind of stuff is

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what the shamans are, uh, are kind of trying to find as well all the time.

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I've still got to learn a lot more about that stuff, but, I think what

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drew me to, to being a musician.

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Was, was that though, was, I, I need to express myself, as authentically as

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possible, and it seems as though the real world isn't real enough for me.

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It's not, I'm not feeling, and so when I, and I was talking about

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this with Nazemi Hayessi, You know, cause she's, she asked me, Roger,

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like, is that really you on stage?

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And I thought to myself, well, there is, there is a bit of, you know, banter there.

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There is a bit of this and a bit of that and a bit of playing with

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the crowd, but, but essentially.

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That, that's absolutely me, that's, that's me, like, I can't even be

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in real life, or, because it's, it goes, it gets bigger, it gets bigger

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than, it gets bigger than that, when you're in that space, I guess, I can't

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even really describe that, but yeah.

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But I think this, this is true for all creativity, really.

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Uh, I mean, the, the best songs I've written and the best pieces of writing I

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ever put out, uh, came from a place of, you know, letting go completely and just

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being in a green zone and not knowing what was going on, like my most famous

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piece is probably 21 million article.

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and, and that I wrote that while.

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Simultaneously falling asleep.

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So I wasn't there.

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I was just, so it feels like you're channeling something from the outside.

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And I don't necessarily believe that it's true that you're actually

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channeling something, but it certainly feels like that's the case,

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that there's some outside force.

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And I guess it's your subconscious or your soul, if you will, like

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something else is influencing.

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What's happening?

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And it's such a great feeling to be hyper focused, like to be in the zone,

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like what do surfers say, like the green room, when they catch a perfect

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wave, that's the thing, you want to be in this moment that feels like you're

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in You're stuck in this moment in time and it's going to last forever.

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Like time and space are just dissolving.

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And I had that experience while, you know, rehearsing with a band

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sometimes, and even on stage, like, you're just watching your body do

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things, but you're not really there.

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You're, you're able to like zone out and observe all these magical stuff happening.

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And I, I love that.

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I think like, um, Bitcoin and the, um, security it gives you, the, the, um,

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all the insight it gives you, it gives you, a leverage, if you will, a better,

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starting point for, for being like that more often, if you will, since, like you

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say, we wear these masks, if you, if you have a fiat job, you know exactly what

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that means, like you're, you're, you're forced to attend these meetings and, and,

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and, uh, and, Talk bullshit about this and that and have conversations about the

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weather and other bullshitty things and it feels very unnatural and artificial.

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And so yeah, like, I think we at least creative people have a wish to get

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closer to some authenticity in this way.

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I think it's, I think it's no coincidence, the kind of, you know, for lack of a

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better word, squares and misfits and weirdos that get attracted to Bitcoin.

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It's, it's no coincidence at all.

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I, I've spoken about this with many Bitcoiners, and I think as humans, we,

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we, who have been attracted to Bitcoin have come to Bitcoin quite literally

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from the beginning of our lives.

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And if, you speak to some Bitcoiners, they'll say, I've been in search of

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Bitcoin And this was the path for me, I just didn't know it until I found Bitcoin,

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and that was definitely the case for me.

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I think music helped me find the path, and Bitcoin, I don't like

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to use the word concretized, but it, kind of, solidified it.

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I guess they're the same kind of thing, but, um, Bitcoin

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solidified what I was looking for.

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But essentially I was always looking for what, what Bitcoin is and what

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Bitcoin represents, which is, which is essentially the freedom to be myself.

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and, and, it's, it's insane how how bitcoin operates.

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But, but it is, it's this free speech which enables freedom of expression,

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which enables you to identify yourself through that, through however form

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you want to express yourself in.

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And in that expression, you see yourself clearly.

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You accept yourself, fully, and then you can love yourself, then you can

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truly say, well that's, that's me, and here I am, and then you can start

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accepting and building that love, and that love is really what we're all after.

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Whether, like, any kind of creator, any kind of, but, but, we're all

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creators, and so any kind of human is looking for that kind of, that love,

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Do you think it's necessary to love yourself before you can love others?

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a hundred percent, yeah.

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I mean, you can definitely love others, I'm not saying you can't,

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but, the love for yourself is.

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Truly, author, it's truly, what I should put, it's truly abundant love, because And

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you can, you can have, I'm not saying you can't have abundant love for others before

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you find abundant love for yourself.

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You can definitely have that.

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Because you might, you know, you might not like what you're putting out into the

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world, but then you find someone and you love what they're putting out into the

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world and so you can just give to that.

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But anything is, anything is possible in that way, but maybe I can only

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speak from my point of view here, but.

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I feel like if you don't have a true kind of sense of love in some capacity

224
00:16:52,982 --> 00:16:57,572
for yourself, then it's going to run out for someone else, because where

225
00:16:57,572 --> 00:16:59,122
are you going to kind of get it from?

226
00:16:59,132 --> 00:17:01,149
Like, It's a tricky one, man.

227
00:17:01,179 --> 00:17:07,269
I I, I like to think though that the bitcoin, it begins, like you were saying,

228
00:17:07,269 --> 00:17:10,809
it begins this path for self-love.

229
00:17:11,490 --> 00:17:15,510
I mean, we've got an ident, an identity crisis going on in the world.

230
00:17:15,990 --> 00:17:21,070
We've got a value crisis, which leads to the identity crisis, which then leads

231
00:17:21,070 --> 00:17:23,890
to this relationship crisis in a way.

232
00:17:24,335 --> 00:17:28,045
but the, the identity crisis is.

233
00:17:28,695 --> 00:17:34,668
I believe that people are trying to work out who they are, but the fiat system,

234
00:17:34,972 --> 00:17:41,232
it's completely made it a delusion of what value really is for the individual.

235
00:17:42,142 --> 00:17:49,261
So we, we, value, these metrics, we value these calculations, we value, for

236
00:17:49,261 --> 00:17:52,491
example, we value money instead of wealth.

237
00:17:53,371 --> 00:17:53,671
Right?

238
00:17:54,041 --> 00:18:01,626
So, money becomes this tangible, physical thing when we should be valuing wealth,

239
00:18:01,656 --> 00:18:04,805
which is, I mean, wealth is, health.

240
00:18:05,005 --> 00:18:06,565
Wealth is happiness.

241
00:18:06,565 --> 00:18:09,545
Wealth is a healthy relationship, for example.

242
00:18:10,795 --> 00:18:18,020
But we're, we're sort of calculating Wealth, like it's, you know, how

243
00:18:18,020 --> 00:18:22,130
much money you've got, what kind of assets you've got, what kind of,

244
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,220
car you own, all that kind of stuff.

245
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:30,280
well, and the fiat system is all, is all pervasive in there.

246
00:18:30,290 --> 00:18:31,410
It's, it's, it's.

247
00:18:32,060 --> 00:18:36,350
It's, it's not only broken, but it's broken our way of valuing

248
00:18:36,380 --> 00:18:40,450
things as human beings, because we don't value human things anymore,

249
00:18:40,450 --> 00:18:42,700
we value these fucking calculations

250
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,590
I think the, the, the main misconception here is that people think that money

251
00:18:47,590 --> 00:18:52,580
is an, is a noun, that it's a physical thing, when it's really not, it's, it's

252
00:18:52,580 --> 00:18:58,510
an, it's an adjective, right, it's it's different things have different moneyness

253
00:18:58,580 --> 00:19:06,410
to them, and it's not a tangible thing, like, uh, um, it's, it's just, We view,

254
00:19:06,790 --> 00:19:12,730
have come to believe that these, uh, bills and these numbers on screens are money.

255
00:19:14,290 --> 00:19:17,870
It's true in the sense that they have some moneyness to them, but they're

256
00:19:17,870 --> 00:19:21,480
not necessarily, it's not a, it's not a physical thing, it's just an

257
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:27,790
expression of how you value, so, to which extent you value your time,

258
00:19:27,790 --> 00:19:29,800
basically, to other, to other people.

259
00:19:30,269 --> 00:19:35,039
so, and also about About the self and loving thyself, do you

260
00:19:35,039 --> 00:19:37,009
think Donald Trump loves himself?

261
00:19:37,619 --> 00:19:41,749
And like, where I'm getting at with that question is like, where does

262
00:19:41,769 --> 00:19:46,259
narcissism come in and where does this self love turn into something ugly?

263
00:19:47,009 --> 00:19:51,569
So what's the difference between loving thyself so that you can be able to,

264
00:19:52,169 --> 00:19:56,919
you know, spread love to others, and loving thyself for egotistical reasons?

265
00:19:56,919 --> 00:19:58,129
Heh

266
00:19:58,471 --> 00:20:08,433
altruistic love comes out of self love, so there has to be true self love For

267
00:20:08,433 --> 00:20:15,153
it to become abundant for yourself and in that abundance, then it can be

268
00:20:15,563 --> 00:20:18,853
given to others quite, quite freely.

269
00:20:19,093 --> 00:20:23,473
I mean, that's the unconditional giving of love.

270
00:20:23,553 --> 00:20:25,213
It's got to be unconditional.

271
00:20:26,083 --> 00:20:29,843
Is Trump giving his love unconditionally?

272
00:20:30,168 --> 00:20:30,958
it's questionable.

273
00:20:31,733 --> 00:20:35,623
Because he may be looking for something in return, and he, he,

274
00:20:35,713 --> 00:20:40,763
he probably is from certain people, does he have enough self love for

275
00:20:40,763 --> 00:20:44,383
himself, you know, he probably does,

276
00:20:45,107 --> 00:20:49,547
my views on Trump may be biased, but this is, I just took him as an example

277
00:20:49,567 --> 00:20:55,187
of, like, the narcissistic personality disorder, like, for people who suffer from

278
00:20:55,187 --> 00:20:58,487
that, is self love a good thing or not?

279
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:00,129
do they love themselves?

280
00:21:00,909 --> 00:21:06,029
yeah, that's, yeah, definitely, that is really tricky there because on the

281
00:21:06,029 --> 00:21:11,816
one hand you would say someone who's narcissistic doesn't really, someone

282
00:21:11,816 --> 00:21:13,661
who's narcissistic is narcissistic.

283
00:21:14,441 --> 00:21:18,411
actually really looking for love because they don't have

284
00:21:18,411 --> 00:21:20,091
it within themselves properly.

285
00:21:21,061 --> 00:21:24,681
So they're constantly sourcing for outside validation.

286
00:21:25,561 --> 00:21:32,091
And in that sense, they've missed the point of truly being able to be on

287
00:21:32,091 --> 00:21:38,681
their own, truly being able to love themselves unconditionally for themselves.

288
00:21:39,121 --> 00:21:44,681
Because they, they just don't, they just, they're constantly searching on

289
00:21:44,681 --> 00:21:49,171
the outside for something, and that's, yeah, that you could say someone who's

290
00:21:49,171 --> 00:21:55,030
narcissistic is definitely showing tendencies, of being completely, lacking

291
00:21:55,080 --> 00:22:02,270
in self love, which, you could say, yeah, that, that, I mean, is it dangerous?

292
00:22:02,270 --> 00:22:06,629
Yeah, I think it is dangerous, Like, and it's interesting you mentioned

293
00:22:06,629 --> 00:22:12,959
a politician because a politician may be seen on the outside of things

294
00:22:13,109 --> 00:22:15,659
to, to have, you know, this status.

295
00:22:16,504 --> 00:22:21,244
And we, we often conflate status with, with some kind of happiness, right?

296
00:22:21,304 --> 00:22:24,664
Oh, well, you, you've got all these views, you're, you've got all

297
00:22:24,664 --> 00:22:28,184
these likes, you've got all this attention, you must be really happy.

298
00:22:29,019 --> 00:22:31,759
but is that person really happy?

299
00:22:31,849 --> 00:22:38,364
And does That attention really give them a sense of identity.

300
00:22:38,404 --> 00:22:43,254
I mean, maybe, yeah, it is hard to, it is hard to answer.

301
00:22:43,264 --> 00:22:48,634
I mean, I think you'd have to sit down with Trump and really get to

302
00:22:48,634 --> 00:22:52,349
know someone like that to, to be able to answer something like that, but

303
00:22:53,099 --> 00:23:00,234
narcissism is, it is a result, I would say, of, uh, well, of this, Yeah.

304
00:23:00,874 --> 00:23:06,564
This, this, this, this crisis of identification, I think.

305
00:23:06,864 --> 00:23:12,044
We're going through this crisis of knowing, of not

306
00:23:12,054 --> 00:23:14,144
knowing ourselves well enough.

307
00:23:14,564 --> 00:23:19,694
And so we look to the outside for validation all the time, and in

308
00:23:19,694 --> 00:23:23,414
doing so, we're measuring ourselves.

309
00:23:23,989 --> 00:23:26,149
using the fiat standard.

310
00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:31,889
And if we don't have all of the, if we don't tick all the boxes, then we're,

311
00:23:32,299 --> 00:23:37,889
we're getting sad because we don't, we just, we're not valuable enough.

312
00:23:38,502 --> 00:23:41,382
So we're, we're searching for the wrong thing in the wrong place then.

313
00:23:42,892 --> 00:23:47,222
I, you know, that, that song, um, still, I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

314
00:23:47,822 --> 00:23:54,502
I think that's, um, it's such a well, this, it's, it just describes the

315
00:23:54,502 --> 00:24:00,477
situation of, of the fiat and maybe it's, uh, you know, I don't want to say

316
00:24:00,477 --> 00:24:06,927
anything about the, just that, that, that, the actual meaning behind that

317
00:24:06,927 --> 00:24:11,450
song, is so relevant to the fiat culture.

318
00:24:11,550 --> 00:24:12,730
It's just so relevant.

319
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:19,336
And we, we, we suffer because, um, because the whole world just, just can't see

320
00:24:19,356 --> 00:24:22,986
that fiat is, is corrupting everything

321
00:24:23,368 --> 00:24:24,798
So how did you find Bitcoin?

322
00:24:25,428 --> 00:24:31,518
Or how did Bitcoin find you is, might be the more, more corrector question here.

323
00:24:32,183 --> 00:24:38,897
so I think, I think, um, Bitcoin finds you just because you're looking

324
00:24:38,957 --> 00:24:45,477
for truth, really, or you're looking for You're, you're curious enough to

325
00:24:45,967 --> 00:24:51,565
question things and you're brave enough to, you're brave enough to accept.

326
00:24:52,095 --> 00:24:58,565
Other people's refusal, you know, and, and when other people refuse

327
00:24:58,725 --> 00:25:04,825
you, you sort of, because of your conviction, it doesn't matter.

328
00:25:05,395 --> 00:25:08,265
But sorry man, your question was how did Bitcoin find me,

329
00:25:08,555 --> 00:25:09,875
or how did I find Bitcoin.

330
00:25:10,315 --> 00:25:14,740
Again, it was through music, so, so the music led me to Bitcoin.

331
00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:20,930
And it led me to an Andreas Antonopoulos video, and that was it.

332
00:25:21,540 --> 00:25:28,080
I just, I started, a bit like Andreas himself, I started just absorbing

333
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:34,740
as much as I could, and found, I lost myself completely, just, yeah,

334
00:25:34,830 --> 00:25:37,260
just sucking up everything Bitcoin.

335
00:25:38,127 --> 00:25:43,144
and I've never, I've never looked back, I'd never Regretted basically

336
00:25:43,204 --> 00:25:48,644
anything I've done in Bitcoin, and that includes losing 80 percent of all my

337
00:25:48,644 --> 00:25:52,124
Bitcoin, which was very painful, but,

338
00:25:52,324 --> 00:25:53,434
In a boating accident?

339
00:25:54,459 --> 00:26:04,948
kind of, um, no, but it, it, I think everything in Bitcoin is good

340
00:26:05,098 --> 00:26:08,308
for you, and it, it, it literally.

341
00:26:08,868 --> 00:26:14,060
Improves your life no matter what it does in a way, because it's, it's

342
00:26:14,060 --> 00:26:16,790
um, it's this purification process,

343
00:26:17,455 --> 00:26:17,825
Yeah.

344
00:26:18,585 --> 00:26:24,035
One thing you said before, that's like, uh, I think Bitcoiners are born with this.

345
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:29,020
that they will find Bitcoin eventually because they were born with this,

346
00:26:29,150 --> 00:26:33,480
uh, you know, itch in their mind that there's something bigger and there's

347
00:26:33,620 --> 00:26:35,700
something to look for in the first place.

348
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:41,850
And this reminds me of a question I've been asked many times since writing

349
00:26:41,860 --> 00:26:45,480
the books, and that is the question, when did you start writing the book?

350
00:26:46,555 --> 00:26:49,705
I mean, and to me, that's like impossible to answer.

351
00:26:49,735 --> 00:26:52,565
Like, I know when I stopped writing the book.

352
00:26:52,705 --> 00:26:53,575
That's easy.

353
00:26:54,285 --> 00:26:57,335
When I started, like, when the hell was that?

354
00:26:57,635 --> 00:27:00,575
It's not when I wrote the first letter on the keyboard.

355
00:27:00,765 --> 00:27:01,545
I know that.

356
00:27:02,285 --> 00:27:03,105
So when is it?

357
00:27:03,205 --> 00:27:07,115
It's probably when I was born, or maybe when my parents were born.

358
00:27:07,135 --> 00:27:07,855
What do I know?

359
00:27:07,885 --> 00:27:12,335
Like, everything led up to that decision at some point.

360
00:27:12,885 --> 00:27:18,260
So it's very hard to, to, uh, To put a starting point at any creative process.

361
00:27:19,370 --> 00:27:23,040
I mean, if you're writing a song, for instance, that can be, that can feel

362
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,969
very instant, and like, you, you, you, you grabbed an instrument, and something

363
00:27:27,969 --> 00:27:33,429
just came to you, uh, so that's easier to explain, but like, why, why did it come

364
00:27:33,429 --> 00:27:36,999
to you, it wouldn't have come to you if you didn't know how to use the thing, it

365
00:27:36,999 --> 00:27:40,509
wouldn't have come to you if you didn't pick it up, or have it there, or like,

366
00:27:41,089 --> 00:27:48,264
there needs to be a couple of There are, uh, what's the word, uh, preconditions

367
00:27:48,264 --> 00:27:52,004
that are necessary for a thing like that, for a creative thing to, to happen.

368
00:27:52,789 --> 00:27:57,859
you know, honestly man, um, I actually found it really difficult,

369
00:27:57,939 --> 00:28:03,829
I, I found it really easy to write music, um, just in terms of my

370
00:28:03,829 --> 00:28:07,069
creative process, um, and I find it.

371
00:28:07,529 --> 00:28:12,069
I found it really easy to come up with a melody, I found it incredibly difficult

372
00:28:12,549 --> 00:28:18,359
to realize what was informing that music.

373
00:28:18,969 --> 00:28:26,899
And ever since I found Bitcoin, it's been so easy to write lyrics, it's been so

374
00:28:26,899 --> 00:28:30,569
easy to know what my music's about now.

375
00:28:31,249 --> 00:28:39,459
And so, I've, I've, I've even had some Music, that I'd written years ago, and

376
00:28:39,609 --> 00:28:43,879
I've looked at it and thought, holy fuck, this is about Bitcoin as well.

377
00:28:44,469 --> 00:28:49,882
And it, it literally informs my entire existence now.

378
00:28:49,982 --> 00:28:55,252
I mean, Bitcoin, literally, I, I, honestly, I, and it's going to sound

379
00:28:55,252 --> 00:28:59,592
weird, but, Satoshi speaks to me.

380
00:28:59,642 --> 00:29:03,172
I, like you were saying, something speaks through you.

381
00:29:03,942 --> 00:29:10,252
So, like, the books are, are a channeling of something.

382
00:29:10,332 --> 00:29:16,606
And this is why I guess people come to these religious, these religious concepts

383
00:29:16,606 --> 00:29:23,846
keep coming up in Bitcoin, because of this nature, um, of this expression.

384
00:29:24,086 --> 00:29:26,526
It's somehow otherworldly.

385
00:29:26,724 --> 00:29:27,174
Yeah, the

386
00:29:27,174 --> 00:29:33,064
idea is so powerful, it's like that, uh, that, uh, I don't remember who

387
00:29:33,074 --> 00:29:38,104
the quote is from, one of the science fiction authors, I think, that any,

388
00:29:38,684 --> 00:29:43,544
any, sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

389
00:29:44,074 --> 00:29:48,924
And I think that's what's going on, and I think people who can't comprehend why

390
00:29:48,924 --> 00:29:53,784
it's so powerful see it as magic, and that has something to do with why they

391
00:29:53,784 --> 00:29:55,624
become religious to a larger extent.

392
00:29:57,194 --> 00:29:59,424
that's, that's a great analogy, yeah,

393
00:29:59,554 --> 00:30:05,264
That's like a rationalist view of why bitcoiners are becoming religious.

394
00:30:05,344 --> 00:30:10,244
It's because it feels like magic, because in some sense it is.

395
00:30:11,724 --> 00:30:15,974
And as you say, I've had the, you said this is going to sound

396
00:30:15,974 --> 00:30:18,664
strange, but I've had the exact same experience with songwriting.

397
00:30:19,584 --> 00:30:23,454
I mean, I write songs, I don't record them as often as I used to, but I

398
00:30:23,454 --> 00:30:24,674
still write them once in a while.

399
00:30:25,114 --> 00:30:30,254
Uh, the best ones are usually the ones that take five minutes to write and that

400
00:30:30,254 --> 00:30:35,144
just come from this place of, of stream of consciousness, like, and the lyrics can

401
00:30:35,144 --> 00:30:41,134
be very abstract and they make no sense whatsoever in, in a traditional sense,

402
00:30:41,164 --> 00:30:45,754
but, but they make emotional sense to you somehow, or poetical sense, whatever.

403
00:30:46,274 --> 00:30:51,214
And somehow, yeah, Bitcoin influenced that for sure.

404
00:30:51,224 --> 00:30:55,764
And, and I, like you, I could look back at older songs and see like, hang on this.

405
00:30:56,299 --> 00:31:00,159
Was already here somehow, like it's a search, searching for freedom and a

406
00:31:00,159 --> 00:31:05,209
searching for emotional honesty, if you

407
00:31:05,294 --> 00:31:11,181
mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm, 100%, 100%, it, it comes, and I saw this

408
00:31:11,181 --> 00:31:15,331
interview with Michael Jackson once, and he frickin said exactly the

409
00:31:15,331 --> 00:31:16,831
same thing as what you've just said.

410
00:31:17,391 --> 00:31:22,411
He literally just, some interviewer asked him, you know, hey man, where

411
00:31:22,411 --> 00:31:23,971
did fuckin Billie Jean come from?

412
00:31:24,791 --> 00:31:27,151
And he was like, it just came to me.

413
00:31:27,391 --> 00:31:28,411
It, don't.

414
00:31:29,202 --> 00:31:31,622
Look for it, because it's just gonna come to you.

415
00:31:32,312 --> 00:31:34,966
And that, that really shook me.

416
00:31:34,966 --> 00:31:41,721
I was like, wow, like, this dude is fucking And I've subsequently tried

417
00:31:41,721 --> 00:31:46,921
to listen to more of what Michael has said, and he's a fucking profound dude.

418
00:31:46,951 --> 00:31:50,531
We, like, I don't think we know the half of what, what the

419
00:31:50,531 --> 00:31:51,981
fuck is going on with Michael.

420
00:31:51,981 --> 00:31:59,214
I, who knows how he exited the world, but I actually think he's really under,

421
00:32:00,324 --> 00:32:04,184
obviously, you know, he's a pretty famous dude, but like, I think he's

422
00:32:04,204 --> 00:32:08,109
philosophical and, you know, Spiritual understanding is so undervalued.

423
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:09,769
No one fucking knows him for that.

424
00:32:10,329 --> 00:32:11,529
Um, but he was there.

425
00:32:11,579 --> 00:32:19,279
He was really on all this stuff, which is, I guess his, his handlers probably

426
00:32:19,299 --> 00:32:22,989
said, look, dude, just, just, don't, don't, don't say that shit, man.

427
00:32:22,989 --> 00:32:24,919
But you can fucking put people off, you know.

428
00:32:25,609 --> 00:32:27,119
But, um, hey,

429
00:32:27,889 --> 00:32:32,809
Yeah, other artists that come to mind, John Lennon or Kurt Cobain or Bob

430
00:32:32,829 --> 00:32:37,349
Marley or like people who just had something, some connection to something

431
00:32:37,419 --> 00:32:40,929
authentic, emotionally authentic.

432
00:32:41,279 --> 00:32:44,149
It's very hard to quantify or describe,

433
00:32:44,632 --> 00:32:45,062
yeah.

434
00:32:45,542 --> 00:32:49,232
I mean, the purification process, though, it should actually help.

435
00:32:50,187 --> 00:32:53,297
Many more people reach that state.

436
00:32:53,507 --> 00:32:55,677
I mean, I, I, I've definitely been helped.

437
00:32:55,979 --> 00:33:02,089
there's so many people crying out, I think, to have a voice in the world.

438
00:33:02,139 --> 00:33:06,399
And whatever that is, you know, and that's the beauty of Bitcoin.

439
00:33:06,399 --> 00:33:07,839
It's, it's, it's changing.

440
00:33:08,139 --> 00:33:10,499
And, and I was thinking about this the other day, actually, just to

441
00:33:10,499 --> 00:33:12,319
get back to the religious stuff.

442
00:33:12,369 --> 00:33:12,789
Um.

443
00:33:13,779 --> 00:33:19,859
There's a great quote by Joseph Campbell, um, the image of

444
00:33:19,859 --> 00:33:21,579
God is the final obstruction.

445
00:33:22,468 --> 00:33:26,391
And I've loved that, I've loved that ever since I heard it, but for

446
00:33:26,391 --> 00:33:32,161
me, that means essentially when you get rid of the image of something,

447
00:33:32,801 --> 00:33:38,256
particularly the image of God, it then becomes It then becomes everything.

448
00:33:38,626 --> 00:33:42,508
It then, manifests itself in everything.

449
00:33:42,798 --> 00:33:49,698
And I think for God, you know, like, we, we are the image of God.

450
00:33:49,748 --> 00:33:54,778
We, the, the, the, I guess this is an Eastern perspective more than

451
00:33:54,778 --> 00:34:00,729
a Western perspective, but, then I thought, well hang on, the image

452
00:34:00,729 --> 00:34:03,588
of money is the final obstruction.

453
00:34:04,282 --> 00:34:07,292
And like you say, Knut, right?

454
00:34:07,572 --> 00:34:10,172
Like you say, everything divided by 21.

455
00:34:10,672 --> 00:34:11,052
Million.

456
00:34:11,182 --> 00:34:15,282
I mean, that is, that, and now we're getting rid of the image

457
00:34:15,282 --> 00:34:16,992
of money, through bitcoin.

458
00:34:17,962 --> 00:34:24,647
And everything now becomes, moneyfied every, everything now, has a real value

459
00:34:25,337 --> 00:34:27,737
because we're getting rid of the money.

460
00:34:28,105 --> 00:34:34,670
So, I mean, I, I, I, you know, I think that the, the, the philosophy

461
00:34:34,670 --> 00:34:40,355
and, the love of knowledge that brick, Bitcoin is initiating here

462
00:34:40,355 --> 00:34:47,060
is, um, I mean, it, I, I think we should, I think all Bitcoiners are.

463
00:34:48,215 --> 00:34:54,365
Essentially philosophers now, they, have to have philosophy at their core because

464
00:34:55,265 --> 00:34:58,685
that's what enables them to, to love.

465
00:34:59,315 --> 00:35:05,045
What they, what they are, which is, which is truth searching creatures,

466
00:35:05,844 --> 00:35:10,984
just before I forget, there's a great Benny Anderson quote about creativity

467
00:35:10,984 --> 00:35:12,884
and songwriting in particular.

468
00:35:13,524 --> 00:35:16,934
And he says like, the songs are already out there, floating in the room.

469
00:35:17,574 --> 00:35:22,314
And you just have to sit by the piano to catch them as they,

470
00:35:22,314 --> 00:35:24,284
as they, as they float around.

471
00:35:24,294 --> 00:35:30,237
And, and I think that's so, illustrative of what it feels like to write a song.

472
00:35:30,247 --> 00:35:35,197
It feels like when you do it successfully, that is like you can force it, but,

473
00:35:35,217 --> 00:35:37,247
but it never, it's never as good.

474
00:35:37,898 --> 00:35:43,258
I mean, it is, it is effortless, and I'd love to have had a conversation

475
00:35:43,258 --> 00:35:49,308
with Beethoven, because to know the struggle, and we only know, you know,

476
00:35:49,308 --> 00:35:53,848
anecdotal evidence, but we know that he struggled like a motherfucker.

477
00:35:54,523 --> 00:35:54,903
Right?

478
00:35:55,253 --> 00:35:59,193
As opposed to someone like, uh, as opposed to someone like Mozart, who

479
00:35:59,583 --> 00:36:04,073
just seemed to have this fucking, you know, hey, let's have fun, let's fucking

480
00:36:04,083 --> 00:36:09,403
be jokers, let's, you know, it all just seemed, you know, like, like, you

481
00:36:09,403 --> 00:36:13,833
know, he's writing symphonies in his head, um, without any effort at all.

482
00:36:14,403 --> 00:36:20,523
And so I've always thought, I've always really, well, again,

483
00:36:20,553 --> 00:36:23,023
I, I, I, I try to be balanced.

484
00:36:23,373 --> 00:36:28,803
And I've, I've, I've fucking slogged at some things and thought, no,

485
00:36:28,843 --> 00:36:30,733
this, this, this is gonna happen.

486
00:36:30,773 --> 00:36:31,993
I just have to believe it.

487
00:36:31,993 --> 00:36:33,863
I just have to keep struggling with it.

488
00:36:34,263 --> 00:36:39,093
And at the end of the day, I really, I've, you know, I've bashed it.

489
00:36:40,173 --> 00:36:41,453
Horse, right?

490
00:36:42,493 --> 00:36:48,323
Um, when, absolutely, as you say Knut, like when it happens magically

491
00:36:48,323 --> 00:36:52,903
and when it happens easily and when it happens like it's, like you're

492
00:36:52,913 --> 00:36:56,473
channeling it, that is, they're, they're, they're definitely the best ones.

493
00:36:56,643 --> 00:36:57,053
Yeah, for

494
00:36:57,308 --> 00:37:03,008
Yeah, then again, like, people's processes are different, and different genres

495
00:37:03,008 --> 00:37:08,938
of music are different, and like, the Beethoven Mozart thing reminds me of

496
00:37:09,398 --> 00:37:15,058
how Bob Dylan compared his songwriting to how Leonard Cohen described his,

497
00:37:15,058 --> 00:37:19,658
it's like Dylan writes them in five minutes, and Cohen spent years writing

498
00:37:19,668 --> 00:37:24,467
everything, so it doesn't necessarily have to be the same from person to person.

499
00:37:25,012 --> 00:37:26,802
And also from genre to genre.

500
00:37:26,802 --> 00:37:28,652
I mean, I love Tool, for instance.

501
00:37:28,782 --> 00:37:32,222
They take like 14 years to release an album, but when they do,

502
00:37:32,222 --> 00:37:36,362
it's, it's fucking spectacularly good, and, and it is good because

503
00:37:36,362 --> 00:37:37,862
they put a lot of work into it.

504
00:37:37,882 --> 00:37:41,914
So there's something to that, too, like but this is where, this is why

505
00:37:41,914 --> 00:37:45,244
it's so hard to describe because the ability to be able to write a song

506
00:37:45,244 --> 00:37:49,684
in five minutes took a lifetime of work to get to that point, right?

507
00:37:50,424 --> 00:37:53,654
Uh, that, that's, so that's the proof of work there.

508
00:37:53,654 --> 00:37:56,734
So, so I think anyone who says that the writing the song

509
00:37:56,754 --> 00:37:58,424
took them five minutes is.

510
00:37:58,589 --> 00:38:03,139
Basically lying, like, it's the final process of the song making that took five

511
00:38:03,139 --> 00:38:05,129
minutes, but really took you a lifetime.

512
00:38:05,707 --> 00:38:08,087
That's, that's incredible and it's really true.

513
00:38:08,607 --> 00:38:13,867
And um, I guess that's um, that's the confidence, yeah, of an artist.

514
00:38:14,687 --> 00:38:18,337
As opposed to just the luck of an artist and, absolutely,

515
00:38:18,357 --> 00:38:20,127
there's, there's so much more.

516
00:38:20,167 --> 00:38:26,206
I used to get really You know, until Bitcoin, sorted me out in a way, I, I

517
00:38:26,256 --> 00:38:33,304
used to get incredibly jealous of other artists, thinking, why, why don't I get,

518
00:38:33,424 --> 00:38:35,284
you know, again, it was that attention.

519
00:38:35,294 --> 00:38:37,888
Why don't I get that, recognition?

520
00:38:37,888 --> 00:38:39,578
Why don't people want to work with me?

521
00:38:39,588 --> 00:38:41,698
Why don't I have people come to my gig?

522
00:38:41,758 --> 00:38:43,128
All that kind of stuff.

523
00:38:44,098 --> 00:38:49,098
And of course, you know, I wasn't taking into account all of those

524
00:38:49,138 --> 00:38:55,098
hours, all of that pain, all of that struggle that you don't see when you

525
00:38:55,098 --> 00:38:59,978
just see the artist up on stage and you're just thinking, hey, this guy

526
00:38:59,978 --> 00:39:01,948
just seems to do it falling off a log.

527
00:39:01,948 --> 00:39:07,068
There's no, you know, he's got all these, um, contacts, he's got all this,

528
00:39:07,788 --> 00:39:10,178
um, and again, that's, it, that's.

529
00:39:10,463 --> 00:39:16,243
That concept of privilege, right, which again is a fucking fiat construct, right?

530
00:39:16,243 --> 00:39:23,833
Privilege is such a bullshit term that, again, we attribute to this fiat system.

531
00:39:23,883 --> 00:39:27,663
It's like, well, you know, do you have the money?

532
00:39:27,723 --> 00:39:32,703
Do you have the, Accolade, do you have the, qualification?

533
00:39:32,753 --> 00:39:35,493
Do you have, you know, the contact?

534
00:39:35,703 --> 00:39:37,773
And they're all things that are fucking fiat.

535
00:39:38,193 --> 00:39:40,813
There's nothing human about that.

536
00:39:41,143 --> 00:39:43,593
And yet we value ourselves on that shit.

537
00:39:43,983 --> 00:39:47,943
We value ourselves on the fucking likes, on the measurement, on the calculation.

538
00:39:48,623 --> 00:39:51,493
And it fucks us up as human beings.

539
00:39:51,503 --> 00:39:54,183
It literally destroys our confidence.

540
00:39:54,683 --> 00:40:01,717
in being human, in being just basically good enough just being human and just

541
00:40:01,717 --> 00:40:06,377
being able to dream and just being able to think and, and, and be happy

542
00:40:06,377 --> 00:40:11,877
and be sad and, you know, eat and love and cry and shit and all those

543
00:40:11,887 --> 00:40:18,137
things that actually is the true human value, the true human condition.

544
00:40:18,157 --> 00:40:18,517
So,

545
00:40:19,179 --> 00:40:23,349
the internet itself has sort of destroyed the privileged narrative.

546
00:40:23,839 --> 00:40:28,379
Because everyone can compete on every, in every field now and you

547
00:40:28,379 --> 00:40:32,399
can really, the only thing that can separate you from others is like,

548
00:40:32,459 --> 00:40:35,669
uh, that you actually have talent and that you're actually put in the work.

549
00:40:35,699 --> 00:40:38,389
I mean, anyone can do a YouTube show.

550
00:40:38,389 --> 00:40:39,589
Anyone can make music.

551
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:41,459
Anyone can even make a movie at this point.

552
00:40:41,489 --> 00:40:45,839
Like it's, it's just to make a quality product, you need to put in the work and

553
00:40:45,839 --> 00:40:48,979
you need to have some type of talent.

554
00:40:49,604 --> 00:40:50,714
Which go hand in hand.

555
00:40:52,184 --> 00:40:52,924
absolutely.

556
00:40:53,104 --> 00:40:53,744
Absolutely.

557
00:40:54,194 --> 00:40:57,904
It's, there's nothing, there's nothing that replaces the slog of,

558
00:40:58,394 --> 00:41:01,484
you know, the 10, 000 hours playing or

559
00:41:01,854 --> 00:41:02,064
No,

560
00:41:02,514 --> 00:41:07,474
actually putting, putting in the work to, to create something of value.

561
00:41:08,134 --> 00:41:13,374
It is a bit K shaped in, in that, you know, you do have some artists

562
00:41:13,854 --> 00:41:19,104
with some recognition who can get a lot of attention just by twigging

563
00:41:19,354 --> 00:41:21,764
figures or just by, you know.

564
00:41:22,473 --> 00:41:25,453
Yeah, but then, they're engaged in another artform.

565
00:41:25,753 --> 00:41:29,633
And that artform is just manipulating the algorithms to get the likes.

566
00:41:29,703 --> 00:41:31,723
Which is an artform in itself.

567
00:41:32,043 --> 00:41:36,353
Uh, not a very, uh, it's not an artform I appreciate very much.

568
00:41:36,673 --> 00:41:39,613
But still, you have to do it like, it is something.

569
00:41:40,458 --> 00:41:42,238
it does take, it does take effort.

570
00:41:42,398 --> 00:41:42,818
Sure.

571
00:41:43,138 --> 00:41:43,538
Sure.

572
00:41:43,688 --> 00:41:44,038
Sure.

573
00:41:44,258 --> 00:41:44,588
Yeah.

574
00:41:44,673 --> 00:41:46,863
think that would be harder on a Bitcoin standard, though.

575
00:41:47,355 --> 00:41:48,265
Let's hope so, man.

576
00:41:48,265 --> 00:41:48,635
Yeah.

577
00:41:49,075 --> 00:41:52,625
No, I think it's, it's pretty clear that Bitcoin is going to level a lot of things

578
00:41:52,625 --> 00:41:59,495
and, and let's hope it's going to just enable value for value and, and, you know,

579
00:41:59,845 --> 00:42:02,165
be there for people who really need it.

580
00:42:02,175 --> 00:42:04,585
And so far so good.

581
00:42:04,735 --> 00:42:09,205
It's, it's, it's, you know, I, I would never have developed.

582
00:42:09,226 --> 00:42:13,304
I don't see myself as an artist any further at all.

583
00:42:13,304 --> 00:42:17,225
So Bitcoin has helped me so much, I can't even begin.

584
00:42:17,765 --> 00:42:21,975
It's, I mean, firstly, it's given me a sense of my own identity

585
00:42:21,995 --> 00:42:25,625
as a musician, because I really didn't, like, like I said, I didn't

586
00:42:25,625 --> 00:42:27,815
know what was informing my music.

587
00:42:27,815 --> 00:42:34,560
I really needed to put it out there, but without meaning for me.

588
00:42:35,355 --> 00:42:40,415
Without being informed by something and let's, I, and I have to be really

589
00:42:40,415 --> 00:42:45,245
honest without being informed by something as significant as Bitcoin,

590
00:42:45,470 --> 00:42:47,665
I, I couldn't have validated it.

591
00:42:47,665 --> 00:42:52,695
I never was able to validate my music because it just didn't feel

592
00:42:53,215 --> 00:42:55,075
like it had enough gravity to it.

593
00:42:55,225 --> 00:42:59,585
And all of a sudden Bitcoin comes along and I'm like, fuck yeah.

594
00:42:59,615 --> 00:43:01,565
This is all I wanna write about.

595
00:43:01,565 --> 00:43:05,145
This is all I wanna bring to the world.

596
00:43:05,795 --> 00:43:06,245
And.

597
00:43:06,971 --> 00:43:13,941
I still feel like, you know, well, let me put it this way, I only create

598
00:43:13,951 --> 00:43:17,661
for Bitcoiners now, it's, it's this weird thing that, you know, you,

599
00:43:17,761 --> 00:43:22,821
you know who your audience is, and then you just go, well, These, these

600
00:43:22,821 --> 00:43:23,831
are the people I'm speaking to.

601
00:43:23,831 --> 00:43:26,491
I just don't give a shit about anyone else.

602
00:43:26,831 --> 00:43:31,211
And maybe that's really where I had to come, uh, get to, because I was

603
00:43:31,211 --> 00:43:35,031
always like, how do I please this, and how do I please this group,

604
00:43:35,031 --> 00:43:36,881
and how do I, I was such a fiat.

605
00:43:36,946 --> 00:43:37,171
It

606
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,100
Alright, you might have noticed that we've recently partnered with AmberApp.

607
00:43:41,391 --> 00:43:45,721
After our episode with Izzy, their CEO, and our close friend, we knew we

608
00:43:45,721 --> 00:43:49,126
would have to partner with them in some way, If you haven't seen our episode

609
00:43:49,126 --> 00:43:53,216
with Izzy, definitely go check it out, you'll see why it's such a great fit,

610
00:43:53,466 --> 00:43:57,396
and honestly, they're following the orange glowing light like Izzy always

611
00:43:57,396 --> 00:44:01,486
says, and that's exactly what we try to do here at the Freedom Footprint Show.

612
00:44:01,810 --> 00:44:04,149
The big news about AmberApp is that they're going to be

613
00:44:04,149 --> 00:44:05,959
launching their version 2.

614
00:44:06,176 --> 00:44:09,686
I've seen some of the screenshots and it looks fantastic.

615
00:44:09,981 --> 00:44:13,792
They're going to be including a non custodial on chain wallet, an

616
00:44:13,812 --> 00:44:18,063
anonymous lightning wallet, a fiat wallet, And finally, it's going

617
00:44:18,063 --> 00:44:19,403
to be an exchange, of course.

618
00:44:19,644 --> 00:44:22,546
it's going to be just this super app,  They're also going

619
00:44:22,546 --> 00:44:23,896
to be launching globally.

620
00:44:23,916 --> 00:44:25,466
Everyone's going to be able to use it.

621
00:44:25,706 --> 00:44:27,436
we're really excited about all that.

622
00:44:27,566 --> 00:44:30,206
Stay tuned with us and you'll hear all about it.

623
00:44:30,406 --> 00:44:32,756
And for now, check out their website, amber.

624
00:44:33,006 --> 00:44:35,716
app and the episode with Izzy to find out more.

625
00:44:36,053 --> 00:44:37,443
Roger, this is fantastic.

626
00:44:37,463 --> 00:44:40,093
Uh, I'm loving all the Campbell stuff.

627
00:44:40,348 --> 00:44:46,020
my, my angle, uh, into the Joseph Campbell world is mostly through Jordan Peterson,

628
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:51,140
which, which he's super influenced by Campbell, by Jung, all of, all of this,

629
00:44:51,300 --> 00:44:56,400
this stuff, but the, the angle that I mostly take, I love the hero's journey.

630
00:44:56,720 --> 00:45:01,820
This is, this is a great story, a central story, but I, I mostly focus on, um,

631
00:45:01,995 --> 00:45:09,189
Other aspects of this here, have you, have you dug into some of the different

632
00:45:09,189 --> 00:45:10,949
ways that Peterson approaches this stuff?

633
00:45:11,550 --> 00:45:14,980
You know, I haven't heard much from Peterson, though, I feel really guilty

634
00:45:14,980 --> 00:45:21,350
about that, because I know he's influenced by these dudes, and, um, I guess I'm still

635
00:45:21,350 --> 00:45:27,655
working my way through Campbell and, and Jung, and, um, I, I, Yeah, but I, I, you

636
00:45:27,655 --> 00:45:32,575
know, when I do hear Peterson talk, I can hear all, all the influence in him.

637
00:45:32,575 --> 00:45:34,525
So, absolutely, man.

638
00:45:34,525 --> 00:45:39,985
Yeah, no, I've, I, I, I, I, I do need to, I do need to hear, I, the one

639
00:45:39,985 --> 00:45:46,004
thing I did hear from, Peterson, um, was his take on ai and he, he sounded

640
00:45:46,004 --> 00:45:51,934
very worried about the whole thing, and that kind of confused me because I

641
00:45:51,934 --> 00:45:53,824
thought, hang on, I thought this guy.

642
00:45:54,444 --> 00:45:59,714
New, the Bitcoin was kind of all cool, but he, he seemed to feel really

643
00:45:59,714 --> 00:46:05,353
afraid of AI and that AI was just gonna, you know, infiltrate what seemed

644
00:46:05,353 --> 00:46:09,653
like infiltrate the whole world, even Bitcoiners, which I very much doubt.

645
00:46:09,763 --> 00:46:11,213
But you know, I guess,

646
00:46:11,558 --> 00:46:12,068
worries.

647
00:46:14,043 --> 00:46:16,163
Excellent.

648
00:46:16,263 --> 00:46:22,503
with, him, uh, I, I don't, uh, really put myself out there to kind

649
00:46:22,503 --> 00:46:24,243
of offend him as a, as a person.

650
00:46:24,273 --> 00:46:29,313
He, he all, he, all that he has done is he's helped me a lot to figure out,

651
00:46:29,693 --> 00:46:33,293
the problem of meaning, the problem of value, all of this stuff, the, the

652
00:46:33,293 --> 00:46:39,343
book Maps of Meaning is the, the most valuable thing that he's contributed

653
00:46:39,343 --> 00:46:43,423
to, that I, I think, as well as some accompanying lecture series, those were.

654
00:46:43,678 --> 00:46:44,868
Huge for me.

655
00:46:45,078 --> 00:46:48,758
Just to tie off the point of that, he's got a lot of, a lot of things, a lot

656
00:46:48,758 --> 00:46:53,728
of opinions that I certainly don't, uh, agree with, or at least not to

657
00:46:53,728 --> 00:46:55,338
the same extent that, that he does.

658
00:46:55,748 --> 00:46:58,878
But the main thing is, he, he still produced some amazing things

659
00:46:58,878 --> 00:47:00,848
that have been incredibly helpful.

660
00:47:01,208 --> 00:47:05,871
And, uh, so actually right now I'm doing a series with Robert Breedlove

661
00:47:05,871 --> 00:47:07,828
on The Maps of Meaning book.

662
00:47:07,858 --> 00:47:10,478
So, so first of all, if you want to check that out, we've got, we've got two

663
00:47:10,478 --> 00:47:13,738
episodes released already and probably two more coming pretty soon here.

664
00:47:13,738 --> 00:47:15,298
So if you want to check that out.

665
00:47:15,848 --> 00:47:19,508
But all of his original stuff is a good, is a good intro as well.

666
00:47:19,508 --> 00:47:20,238
Yeah, thanks, Knut.

667
00:47:20,278 --> 00:47:21,348
But, um,

668
00:47:21,638 --> 00:47:24,628
I'm just gonna say, like, subscribe, brush your teeth, and

669
00:47:24,628 --> 00:47:26,498
go and watch Luke on Breedlove.

670
00:47:29,568 --> 00:47:29,838
Yeah.

671
00:47:29,838 --> 00:47:30,228
Thanks.

672
00:47:30,228 --> 00:47:30,798
Thanks, Knut.

673
00:47:30,798 --> 00:47:30,828
Uh,

674
00:47:30,858 --> 00:47:31,868
I've got to check that

675
00:47:31,878 --> 00:47:36,858
doing my best to, to, uh, uh, bring some of the things that have influenced me

676
00:47:36,858 --> 00:47:41,948
out into the world a little bit better is kind of a almost decade, uh, really,

677
00:47:41,963 --> 00:47:46,418
I, I guess it's, there's, there's a few years before I actually found this stuff,

678
00:47:46,423 --> 00:47:51,608
but, uh, five, six years really of, uh, um, work on myself going into that.

679
00:47:51,698 --> 00:47:55,903
This is actually leading to, uh, I'm, I'm trying to build in, uh, uh,

680
00:47:55,908 --> 00:47:58,148
a talking point or a question here.

681
00:47:58,558 --> 00:48:04,368
Uh, I think, I think one of the differences In the, um, what I've

682
00:48:04,368 --> 00:48:09,728
found is that there's this sort of meta narrative, these archetypal figures

683
00:48:09,808 --> 00:48:16,568
that stand for order, chaos, and the way you mediate between these things,

684
00:48:16,568 --> 00:48:21,258
and it all comes down to that we have these shared maps of the world.

685
00:48:21,943 --> 00:48:27,880
And by systematically destroying and recreating these maps, we

686
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:32,690
can navigate the world in a way that can create something new.

687
00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:37,820
And I, I guess the hero, hero's journey parallels this to, to a

688
00:48:37,820 --> 00:48:44,031
certain extent, but it, it also really, to me, there's, there's an aspect

689
00:48:44,031 --> 00:48:46,251
of what it tells the individual.

690
00:48:46,456 --> 00:48:47,266
to do.

691
00:48:47,716 --> 00:48:55,765
Um, so I guess my question would be, what do you see as the role

692
00:48:55,795 --> 00:48:57,495
of the individual in the world?

693
00:48:57,495 --> 00:49:01,305
Like what, what, what is the thing that people need to do to find this meaning?

694
00:49:01,665 --> 00:49:05,295
This is being the question that's, that's obsessed me for years.

695
00:49:05,675 --> 00:49:07,275
And I needed to figure that out myself.

696
00:49:07,275 --> 00:49:09,595
And what's your take on that?

697
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:18,740
that's a great question, um, I mean, truth is within you, I'll say that

698
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:24,920
straight out of the bag, like, it's not really something you need to go out and

699
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:29,790
look for, and this is, I think, I guess where a lot of people get confused,

700
00:49:29,790 --> 00:49:36,391
that they're thinking, surely I've got a purpose that's more than just being me.

701
00:49:36,820 --> 00:49:41,640
And that's kind of where people start to go off on all these tangents

702
00:49:41,670 --> 00:49:46,480
and they start to look outside of themselves and they start to think,

703
00:49:46,540 --> 00:49:53,940
well, you know, he does that and she does that and he's got a cool

704
00:49:53,940 --> 00:49:56,080
girlfriend and all that kind of stuff.

705
00:49:56,443 --> 00:50:00,923
And, you know, that guy's making that amount of money, so I've got

706
00:50:00,923 --> 00:50:03,873
to bring myself to those places.

707
00:50:04,568 --> 00:50:10,178
it gets, it just, it gets confusing, but I think, um, I don't think, I

708
00:50:10,178 --> 00:50:14,448
don't, I think if you're able to listen to yourself clearly, and this is that

709
00:50:14,868 --> 00:50:19,679
intention side of things, because it is internal attention, that's what

710
00:50:19,679 --> 00:50:24,849
intention is, it's really listening to yourself, and Campbell, actually.

711
00:50:25,259 --> 00:50:31,484
spoke about having a quiet space, a quiet place where you would just go and

712
00:50:32,054 --> 00:50:36,444
try and really just be with yourself.

713
00:50:36,494 --> 00:50:40,974
This is another myth, I shouldn't say that, this is another fallacy we have

714
00:50:41,994 --> 00:50:48,508
in the world that is well, if you're alone, that must mean you're lonely.

715
00:50:49,558 --> 00:50:54,368
People just find it so hard to be on their own these days.

716
00:50:54,368 --> 00:50:55,938
it's, crazy.

717
00:50:56,038 --> 00:51:02,002
Everyone needs this noise, this attention, sort of, you know, it's,

718
00:51:02,002 --> 00:51:06,342
it's, it's unfortunate, but actually, yeah, people, people just can't find

719
00:51:06,342 --> 00:51:10,062
themselves because they can't be truly with themselves very easily.

720
00:51:10,642 --> 00:51:12,602
I agree with that so much.

721
00:51:12,692 --> 00:51:15,702
Like, alone is very different from lonely.

722
00:51:16,082 --> 00:51:17,342
Alone is deliberate.

723
00:51:17,482 --> 00:51:24,342
I mean, uh, and, uh, speaking as a person who needs a lot of alone time,

724
00:51:24,412 --> 00:51:26,502
like, I, I think it's so underrated.

725
00:51:26,502 --> 00:51:31,432
Like, people should just Pause, stop, pause, and take a moment for themselves,

726
00:51:31,462 --> 00:51:35,882
with themselves, with their own thoughts, like, recognize what that is, and I

727
00:51:35,902 --> 00:51:37,622
think good things come out the other end.

728
00:51:38,062 --> 00:51:43,712
Like, that's how, as a creative person, you have to do that.

729
00:51:43,782 --> 00:51:47,817
Like, there's no other This is what John Cleese talks about, about

730
00:51:47,817 --> 00:51:51,427
creativity, that you need to know that you're not going to be interrupted.

731
00:51:51,937 --> 00:51:55,307
Like, not only do you need to not be interrupted, but you need to know that

732
00:51:55,307 --> 00:51:56,667
you're not going to be interrupted.

733
00:51:57,367 --> 00:52:01,897
Which is, which is why you need to be alone, and you need to

734
00:52:01,897 --> 00:52:03,247
turn off your notifications.

735
00:52:03,297 --> 00:52:06,657
Like, that's, otherwise nothing will come out the other end.

736
00:52:06,687 --> 00:52:08,707
Like, you need that to be creative.

737
00:52:09,186 --> 00:52:14,536
He gave a, did, did, I, I, I watched a video presentation, uh, he gave a

738
00:52:14,546 --> 00:52:19,076
lecture on creativity that, that's what, um, that's what I saw of him and

739
00:52:19,076 --> 00:52:25,376
it just blew my mind, he, the extent to which, um, and, and when you watch Monty

740
00:52:25,376 --> 00:52:32,136
Python, you know, and you think, this seems so natural and so Just like, as

741
00:52:32,136 --> 00:52:37,416
if it just fell into their hands, into their laps, and then you, then you hear

742
00:52:37,416 --> 00:52:44,608
him talk about how much they pushed and struggled and searched for it, and you

743
00:52:44,628 --> 00:52:53,403
think, wow man, that, they were seriously enlightened dudes to, to, um, and like

744
00:52:53,423 --> 00:52:59,793
you say, like, it, it, they, he, he knew that he needed the space, he knew he

745
00:52:59,793 --> 00:53:05,073
needed the time, and the reflection, and then he knew he needed to play, and he

746
00:53:05,073 --> 00:53:08,253
needed to be able, they needed to have fun when they were doing it as well,

747
00:53:08,361 --> 00:53:11,211
And, uh, he, he wrote a book about creativity, I think

748
00:53:11,211 --> 00:53:12,501
it's called On Creativity.

749
00:53:12,501 --> 00:53:13,821
It's a, it's a short book.

750
00:53:13,821 --> 00:53:16,641
It's like a one hour audiobook, and John reads it himself.

751
00:53:16,641 --> 00:53:20,781
So he, he keeps laughing at his own jokes, but it's, uh, it's wonderful

752
00:53:21,921 --> 00:53:26,781
uh, and I can really recommend that because like he, he sort of debunks some

753
00:53:26,786 --> 00:53:29,121
myths, like, write what you know about.

754
00:53:29,501 --> 00:53:37,071
Well, that's like such a stupid piece of advice, because what am I gonna, what's

755
00:53:37,071 --> 00:53:42,051
this parallel, what am I gonna do, what am I gonna write about pumpkin farming

756
00:53:42,061 --> 00:53:47,351
in Arkansas, like, of course I'm gonna write what I know about, everyone does,

757
00:53:47,381 --> 00:53:51,621
like, you cannot write about something you don't know about, like, it's obvious.

758
00:53:52,441 --> 00:53:55,081
And, uh, Yeah, he's really good.

759
00:53:55,081 --> 00:54:01,161
And that, and the, um, the documentary on how they make South Park, it was about

760
00:54:01,161 --> 00:54:07,461
the, uh, human scent iPad episode, which is hilarious, and, uh, how they write

761
00:54:07,461 --> 00:54:12,801
that, uh, so the six, the documentary is called Six Days to Air, and their creative

762
00:54:12,801 --> 00:54:18,561
process is just magic as well, like six days to produce that from nothing to a

763
00:54:18,561 --> 00:54:22,651
complete South Park episode, it's, to me, that's mind blowing, like, uh, But

764
00:54:22,651 --> 00:54:27,021
that's why they, uh, uh, they can be able to stay so fresh all the time and

765
00:54:27,021 --> 00:54:29,361
like be on point with the current thing.

766
00:54:30,016 --> 00:54:32,226
Yeah, and that's a practice too, isn't it?

767
00:54:32,226 --> 00:54:39,506
I mean, that, that, that ability to get into the different zones, um, with your

768
00:54:39,536 --> 00:54:44,836
team, I mean, that, that, I, I, that was one thing about rehearsing with

769
00:54:44,836 --> 00:54:51,296
a band that I found, I, I loved, but it was so spontaneous, and so hard to

770
00:54:51,296 --> 00:54:57,616
predict, and so, Difficult to, like, the bands that do it, I, I really take my

771
00:54:57,616 --> 00:55:02,946
hat off to them, like they, they have managed to, firstly they've managed to

772
00:55:02,946 --> 00:55:08,496
stick together, which is literally like being married, like for years and years

773
00:55:08,496 --> 00:55:13,439
and years, which, and okay, if you're getting paid well, then okay, you can,

774
00:55:13,469 --> 00:55:19,358
you, you, I guess you just grin and bear it, But, and this brings to mind this

775
00:55:19,358 --> 00:55:27,318
concept of, well, were we different as human beings, um, you know, in the past?

776
00:55:27,358 --> 00:55:39,558
I mean, I mean, we clearly were, but like, our ability to withstand relationships in

777
00:55:39,558 --> 00:55:44,608
the past seemed to, we just seemed to have a lot more tolerance for it in the past.

778
00:55:44,648 --> 00:55:48,108
Now, we just seem to want to find ourselves.

779
00:55:49,078 --> 00:55:51,428
It's much more, it's much more pressing.

780
00:55:51,578 --> 00:55:52,768
At least, I don't know,

781
00:55:53,533 --> 00:55:58,453
I think this is like an important thing to remember here is that

782
00:55:58,473 --> 00:56:00,713
the 20th century was the outlier.

783
00:56:01,323 --> 00:56:03,433
That's the experiment century.

784
00:56:03,443 --> 00:56:06,773
Like that's when you could make money out of copies.

785
00:56:07,743 --> 00:56:10,213
Like you couldn't make money out of copies before that

786
00:56:10,213 --> 00:56:11,683
because you couldn't copy stuff.

787
00:56:11,683 --> 00:56:14,523
So you simply didn't have the industrial revolution.

788
00:56:14,853 --> 00:56:19,298
Um, Uh, and you can't make money off copies after that because you have

789
00:56:19,338 --> 00:56:21,228
abundance because of the internet.

790
00:56:21,778 --> 00:56:25,978
So, so music is infinitely copyable for no cost at all.

791
00:56:26,358 --> 00:56:31,828
So, so, these, this notion of, you know, bands making money selling records

792
00:56:31,868 --> 00:56:37,808
and, and, uh, selling movie tickets and stuff, it's, it's an era that

793
00:56:37,808 --> 00:56:43,263
has It's come and gone, and it was an experimental era, but it was an anomaly

794
00:56:43,263 --> 00:56:47,863
in a historical human sense, and I don't think it's coming back, we're never

795
00:56:47,863 --> 00:56:53,173
gonna see superstars like Michael Jackson or whoever again, like, it's not the

796
00:56:53,173 --> 00:56:56,693
same thing now, the mystery is gone.

797
00:56:57,053 --> 00:56:58,483
I mean, there was something to that.

798
00:56:58,513 --> 00:57:01,033
It's a special era in human history.

799
00:57:01,083 --> 00:57:02,803
I mean, we'll never have another Elvis.

800
00:57:04,853 --> 00:57:09,093
But still, for the most part, it's a good thing that we won't.

801
00:57:09,143 --> 00:57:12,813
Because I think many of those people were pretty fucking miserable.

802
00:57:13,093 --> 00:57:14,253
Madonna, for instance.

803
00:57:15,993 --> 00:57:17,273
Or Michael Jackson.

804
00:57:19,518 --> 00:57:22,208
The torture that some of these dudes must have gone through,

805
00:57:22,298 --> 00:57:23,828
it must have been horrific.

806
00:57:24,198 --> 00:57:27,513
And they just grinned and bared it because Right, right.

807
00:57:27,923 --> 00:57:28,613
Poor dude,

808
00:57:28,913 --> 00:57:29,133
heroes

809
00:57:29,313 --> 00:57:30,283
that killed themselves,

810
00:57:30,313 --> 00:57:30,898
like, it's, it's

811
00:57:30,983 --> 00:57:31,843
fucking horrible.

812
00:57:32,368 --> 00:57:36,108
I mean, imagine driving someone to fucking suicide.

813
00:57:36,118 --> 00:57:41,468
I mean, that's just gotta be the most painful place in the world to do it.

814
00:57:41,498 --> 00:57:48,338
And, I mean, I don't know, I guess He was fairly balanced, but, and he maintained

815
00:57:48,348 --> 00:57:54,528
some kind of career, obviously, but, um, imagine just constantly thinking,

816
00:57:55,088 --> 00:58:00,318
yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it one day, because this is fucking

817
00:58:00,318 --> 00:58:03,868
hell, like, and, and, and the, the

818
00:58:04,118 --> 00:58:04,663
Heroin

819
00:58:04,688 --> 00:58:06,938
addiction probably had something to do with it, too.

820
00:58:07,474 --> 00:58:08,144
Sure, sure.

821
00:58:08,684 --> 00:58:14,554
But, but, it's no wonder that the industry collapsed on itself.

822
00:58:14,574 --> 00:58:19,864
It, it literally killed itself because, like you say, because it

823
00:58:19,864 --> 00:58:24,154
was able to just milk it and milk it and milk it and completely,

824
00:58:25,114 --> 00:58:28,024
um, co opt everything around it.

825
00:58:28,034 --> 00:58:32,634
You know, the, the media, the, the attorneys, the, the accountants, they were

826
00:58:32,634 --> 00:58:38,454
all feeling like they eventually, they, they felt like they became the superstars.

827
00:58:39,135 --> 00:58:42,615
I saw a really good interview this morning, by the way, with Michael

828
00:58:42,655 --> 00:58:48,325
Beinhorn, if you're familiar with him, music producer from the 90s, with Rick

829
00:58:48,355 --> 00:58:53,605
Beato, I think you're familiar with the big music production YouTuber.

830
00:58:54,138 --> 00:58:55,808
If you're not, you should check him out.

831
00:58:55,878 --> 00:58:58,828
But anyway, he was interviewing this Michael Beinhorn who used

832
00:58:58,848 --> 00:59:02,388
to produce, you know, Soundgarden and Red Hot Chili Peppers and,

833
00:59:02,888 --> 00:59:05,278
uh, a lot of groups in the 90s.

834
00:59:06,028 --> 00:59:12,138
Uh, and he, uh, he was asked to compare, like, the climate now to the climate

835
00:59:12,208 --> 00:59:15,998
in 93, like, 30 years down the line, what has changed and what is the same.

836
00:59:15,998 --> 00:59:22,153
And, like, the first and foremost thing is that The, back then they at least had,

837
00:59:22,193 --> 00:59:29,863
uh, they knew that the product had the potential to sell forever, or at least

838
00:59:29,863 --> 00:59:34,423
they thought so, because if the song was good enough and touched people's

839
00:59:34,723 --> 00:59:39,943
souls to a large enough extent, it could be, it could just keep on selling

840
00:59:40,193 --> 00:59:44,503
decade after decade after decade, so that's why the, uh, the quality of the

841
00:59:44,503 --> 00:59:50,049
music was higher, and now you have all these, like, uh, The ever shrinking

842
00:59:50,049 --> 00:59:54,892
attention span makes it you get all the quantity and none of the quality.

843
00:59:54,892 --> 00:59:56,962
It's basically a fiat disease.

844
00:59:57,152 --> 01:00:02,172
And, you know, uh, what Bitcoin is doing is it's doing the same thing

845
01:00:02,202 --> 01:00:06,940
to, that the internet did to the record industry, and like, blockbuster

846
01:00:06,940 --> 01:00:09,410
video and so on, but to everything.

847
01:00:10,070 --> 01:00:13,220
And that's so hard to wrap your head around, but it is doing that.

848
01:00:13,270 --> 01:00:14,860
Like, there's no question about it.

849
01:00:14,870 --> 01:00:20,390
It is Like, when there is a better system, an unstoppable idea, like,

850
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:23,150
people will flow over to that.

851
01:00:23,190 --> 01:00:26,690
It's inevitable in that sense, as long as it just keeps on working.

852
01:00:27,180 --> 01:00:32,654
And I think that's why this is such an orders of magnitude bigger shift

853
01:00:32,684 --> 01:00:35,684
than we are capable of imagining.

854
01:00:35,894 --> 01:00:40,024
Even the bitcoiners, no one knows where this is going, but it's

855
01:00:40,114 --> 01:00:41,324
so much bigger than we think.

856
01:00:41,971 --> 01:00:46,271
There's nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.

857
01:00:46,901 --> 01:00:53,301
And, like you say, man, um, We, no one knows, no one can

858
01:00:53,331 --> 01:00:56,411
explain Bitcoin adequately.

859
01:00:56,849 --> 01:01:02,479
And The mystery, I mean, Joseph Campbell talks about the four

860
01:01:02,479 --> 01:01:05,529
things that make a mythology.

861
01:01:06,419 --> 01:01:11,667
He talks about the mystery of a phenomenon, the

862
01:01:11,667 --> 01:01:13,927
unknowableness of it to a degree.

863
01:01:14,307 --> 01:01:19,837
He talks about the technology, the orders of magnitude above

864
01:01:19,837 --> 01:01:21,307
what was previously before.

865
01:01:22,197 --> 01:01:28,968
He talks about the social, That, he, he, and I'm relaying this because I

866
01:01:28,968 --> 01:01:35,038
remember seeing him speak about it and he said that the new mythologies will

867
01:01:35,138 --> 01:01:42,458
be global, that we've, we're done with these, you know, small minorities of,

868
01:01:42,961 --> 01:01:49,646
we're in this part of the world and no one's going to hear about us, so we.

869
01:01:50,086 --> 01:01:55,566
We, don't, like, how do I put this, we're, we're exclusive, we're exclusive

870
01:01:55,566 --> 01:02:00,396
little clubs and that we can have our mythology and everything's cool.

871
01:02:01,116 --> 01:02:06,186
The new mythologies are going to be human mythologies, and when I

872
01:02:06,186 --> 01:02:09,216
say human, like, they're going to include the whole of the human race.

873
01:02:10,053 --> 01:02:14,153
so, it needs to have mystery, it needs to be technologically

874
01:02:14,153 --> 01:02:17,173
advanced, it needs to have this new.

875
01:02:17,438 --> 01:02:25,158
Mass global culture about it, and complete inclusivity, and it

876
01:02:25,158 --> 01:02:28,948
needs to have this individuation process that Jung talks about.

877
01:02:29,138 --> 01:02:33,068
It needs to be a purification of the individual, it needs to be

878
01:02:33,328 --> 01:02:35,278
transformative for the individual.

879
01:02:35,816 --> 01:02:39,487
And as far as I can see, Bitcoin ticks all those boxes.

880
01:02:39,527 --> 01:02:46,619
It literally, you know, Satoshi is the, the The magic and the, mystery,

881
01:02:47,249 --> 01:02:51,619
um, technologically it's orders of magnitude, you know, more advanced

882
01:02:51,619 --> 01:02:59,472
than we've ever, um, experienced, socially it's, it's a human, club.

883
01:02:59,612 --> 01:03:01,822
It's a, it's a club of humanity.

884
01:03:01,832 --> 01:03:07,415
It's a complete global cultural movement, and it's the

885
01:03:07,415 --> 01:03:08,995
individuation process as well.

886
01:03:09,015 --> 01:03:11,645
So it's, it's just, it's, anyway.

887
01:03:12,395 --> 01:03:13,135
Not that I can.

888
01:03:13,385 --> 01:03:16,895
Describe what Bitcoin is.

889
01:03:16,915 --> 01:03:22,045
to, uh, slightly devil's advocate, or like, introduce another idea here.

890
01:03:22,105 --> 01:03:29,385
So, for instance, uh, climate change, it's an idea, that uh, Has taken its

891
01:03:29,385 --> 01:03:32,385
hold, uh, uh, on, uh, a lot of people.

892
01:03:32,385 --> 01:03:36,525
And, uh, like regardless of what you think about how real the

893
01:03:36,525 --> 01:03:38,715
problem is, I'm not debating that.

894
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:43,275
I'm just debating the belief that politicians can solve the problem

895
01:03:43,275 --> 01:03:48,785
somehow, that a lot of people, and that's a global phenomenon for the most

896
01:03:48,785 --> 01:03:50,135
part, at least in the Western world.

897
01:03:50,645 --> 01:03:57,473
Uh, and it's not, to me the, the notion, the belief, That politicians can solve

898
01:03:57,473 --> 01:04:03,613
a problem is very much like a religion or even a death cult, like it's, it's

899
01:04:03,633 --> 01:04:06,683
a fear mongering at the highest level.

900
01:04:07,104 --> 01:04:12,934
and a lot of bad people will be able to, to capture that and, and

901
01:04:12,944 --> 01:04:14,634
use it for their own purposes.

902
01:04:15,289 --> 01:04:16,079
That fear.

903
01:04:16,649 --> 01:04:20,479
I mean, doomsday cults have always existed, like people have,

904
01:04:21,278 --> 01:04:25,348
predicted the end of the world since the beginning of the world.

905
01:04:25,408 --> 01:04:30,518
I mean, that's always been in the, that's a, uh, reoccurring

906
01:04:30,528 --> 01:04:31,523
feature in people's minds.

907
01:04:31,773 --> 01:04:36,653
All religions basically, Ragnaroks and the Hells and whatnot of, of

908
01:04:36,653 --> 01:04:38,733
the different belief structures.

909
01:04:39,033 --> 01:04:41,983
And like, this seems to be the latest reincarnation of that.

910
01:04:42,003 --> 01:04:46,323
What's make the, what makes this one so scary is that it's so politicized and

911
01:04:46,323 --> 01:04:52,750
it's so easily hijacked by, by people who, who use it for their own, like

912
01:04:52,750 --> 01:04:57,450
the incentives are set up in such a way that The conglomerates and the big

913
01:04:57,460 --> 01:05:00,470
players win, uh, because of this fear.

914
01:05:00,660 --> 01:05:04,530
Um, so, so, so, so what do you think?

915
01:05:04,540 --> 01:05:10,470
Like, is Bitcoin sufficiently good for everyone, uh, to, uh, to break

916
01:05:10,470 --> 01:05:15,370
that vicious circle and, and like make people believe in something real

917
01:05:15,380 --> 01:05:19,740
instead of something that can so easily, easily be captured by third parties.

918
01:05:20,515 --> 01:05:29,755
I mean, fear is a force that, um, it grips, it grips groups of

919
01:05:29,755 --> 01:05:35,803
people, and it's, and it's enforced by, you know, by, by what we

920
01:05:35,803 --> 01:05:37,633
consume in terms of information.

921
01:05:37,643 --> 01:05:40,153
So the, the monopoly.

922
01:05:40,658 --> 01:05:48,356
Like you say, the monopoly of, this misinformation is a factor, but I

923
01:05:48,356 --> 01:05:53,606
think, and this is the same argument with, with AI as well, I think like,

924
01:05:53,940 --> 01:05:58,200
there's people that want fear in their life and they, they feel like.

925
01:05:58,590 --> 01:06:06,120
They're kind of used to that way of expressing or seeing the world

926
01:06:06,140 --> 01:06:11,072
now, so they're kind of happy with that fear in their life.

927
01:06:11,942 --> 01:06:19,794
But I think Bitcoin solves the fear because Bitcoin, it just, it enables

928
01:06:20,264 --> 01:06:22,704
this love to generate itself, quite.

929
01:06:23,594 --> 01:06:25,204
Quite easily, really.

930
01:06:25,554 --> 01:06:32,654
And bitcoin is, they become a force for love, um, in a way that, that,

931
01:06:32,957 --> 01:06:39,512
it, it just eradicates this fear, and I, I, I can't, I mean, you know,

932
01:06:39,732 --> 01:06:46,312
we can talk about the practicals of how Bitcoin mining is, you know, it's

933
01:06:47,642 --> 01:06:54,252
happening bit by bit, but essentially it is the balancing of the world.

934
01:06:54,312 --> 01:07:03,377
I think there's so many people who may have, you know, a fiat lifestyle or a

935
01:07:03,377 --> 01:07:08,731
fiat way of doing things, but they're going to, at some point, come across.

936
01:07:09,266 --> 01:07:14,686
The benefits of Bitcoin mining, in some way, whether it's hearing about

937
01:07:14,686 --> 01:07:21,191
somebody who's using Bitcoin mining, and, you know, monetizing energy that

938
01:07:21,191 --> 01:07:25,131
couldn't have been monetized before, or they're hearing about Bitcoin mining

939
01:07:25,141 --> 01:07:32,236
that's You know, using renewable energy or, you, you know, sucking up the

940
01:07:32,236 --> 01:07:38,316
wasted energy of fracking or, um, using the wasted energy of hydroelectric

941
01:07:38,356 --> 01:07:43,036
dams or whatever they go, it's, it is proliferating and it's going to take time.

942
01:07:43,826 --> 01:07:48,385
But I just don't think, with enough, I just don't think there's

943
01:07:48,385 --> 01:07:55,325
anything big enough that's really going to scare people too badly.

944
01:07:56,260 --> 01:08:01,940
I mean, the energy FUD and the Bitcoin is bad for the environment, it's just,

945
01:08:02,030 --> 01:08:08,830
uh, deliberate or not, but it's just misunderstanding, and it's like, anyone

946
01:08:08,830 --> 01:08:14,275
who writes anything, even remotely close to that, it's just Proving that they

947
01:08:14,285 --> 01:08:19,035
don't see the bigger picture and that they have not understood what kind of problem

948
01:08:19,045 --> 01:08:25,155
Bitcoin solves, because there's nothing as wasteful as fiat money printing,

949
01:08:25,505 --> 01:08:29,915
like that missile allocates all the resources all the time and all this, that

950
01:08:29,915 --> 01:08:35,485
you can, you know, use Bitcoin miners to stabilize the grid and use energy

951
01:08:35,485 --> 01:08:37,215
that would have otherwise been wasted.

952
01:08:37,225 --> 01:08:37,745
That's just a.

953
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:44,200
Bonus cherry on top of the real problem solver here, which is like stopping the

954
01:08:44,330 --> 01:08:46,790
misallocation of resources worldwide.

955
01:08:47,260 --> 01:08:49,940
So, so, it's just ignorant at this point.

956
01:08:50,480 --> 01:08:51,260
Absolutely.

957
01:08:51,440 --> 01:08:53,340
So, I have a question.

958
01:08:53,390 --> 01:08:55,690
Like, is fear the opposite of love?

959
01:08:56,715 --> 01:09:07,045
I mean, fear is the unknown, for me, and whenever I've felt fear, it's

960
01:09:07,455 --> 01:09:15,298
the unknown factor somehow, so it doesn't, it shouldn't, and I don't

961
01:09:15,308 --> 01:09:17,548
think it's ever reduced my love.

962
01:09:18,126 --> 01:09:20,850
So, has it opposed my love?

963
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:26,530
I wouldn't say it's opposed my love, it's just been a factor of unknowingness

964
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:32,619
that's been greater than my confidence or my, my ability at the time.

965
01:09:34,994 --> 01:09:41,649
I don't think it reduces my love, and, and, and I do believe hate is misplaced

966
01:09:41,649 --> 01:09:46,169
love, so I think that love is pretty much.

967
01:09:47,105 --> 01:09:47,865
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

968
01:09:47,905 --> 01:09:48,795
It's not the opposite.

969
01:09:48,825 --> 01:09:49,215
I know

970
01:09:49,245 --> 01:09:51,365
that hate is not the opposite of love.

971
01:09:51,825 --> 01:09:54,115
yeah, hate is definitely not the opposite of love.

972
01:09:54,185 --> 01:09:56,175
No, it's really misplaced love.

973
01:09:56,835 --> 01:10:02,095
Um, fear, yeah, fear is, is, is, I, I would put fear more

974
01:10:02,095 --> 01:10:07,475
in, in the category of just the darkness that you don't recognize.

975
01:10:07,495 --> 01:10:13,099
It's the, and it is the darkness within you as well, I mean, I, I don't

976
01:10:13,139 --> 01:10:15,709
think any of us are lacking in love.

977
01:10:16,464 --> 01:10:21,901
Actually, you know, like, and, and, and, and, and we, we, and, and this

978
01:10:21,901 --> 01:10:30,287
is so clearly visible as Bitcoiners now, because, we emanate love in such

979
01:10:30,287 --> 01:10:38,546
a way that is so easy and so right that it's always, it's, it, it, there

980
01:10:38,546 --> 01:10:40,366
wasn't a question of building it up.

981
01:10:41,401 --> 01:10:47,356
In a way, it kind of, I remember speaking to Jeff Booth at Bitcoin 2021.

982
01:10:47,356 --> 01:10:55,936
And, you know, I was a fucking, you know, terrible, you know, fanboy, and I

983
01:10:55,956 --> 01:11:00,126
raced up to him, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, you know, and I was, he didn't fucking know

984
01:11:00,286 --> 01:11:04,946
me from Adam, and he was like, hey man, you know, like, what the fuck, dude.

985
01:11:06,056 --> 01:11:11,596
And anyway, I was just, uh, and I was, I, and he said, look,

986
01:11:11,826 --> 01:11:14,994
man, like, This is humanity.

987
01:11:15,064 --> 01:11:23,164
This is how humanity is when the fear disappears and it's just, it's the

988
01:11:23,164 --> 01:11:26,984
breaking down of all of the barriers.

989
01:11:27,234 --> 01:11:33,554
It, it's just pure love because, because, and okay, look, I'm not saying that,

990
01:11:33,604 --> 01:11:39,384
you know, Bitcoin is made, it's just, it's made us all, you know, hold hands

991
01:11:39,384 --> 01:11:41,084
and sing ring a ring a rosy, right?

992
01:11:41,094 --> 01:11:44,574
Like it, it, we have, we still have ups and downs in our, our.

993
01:11:45,204 --> 01:11:52,298
our darkness that we have to deal with, but that darkness is just something

994
01:11:52,548 --> 01:11:54,688
that is within the individual.

995
01:11:54,698 --> 01:11:58,048
It's not a boogeyman outside, really.

996
01:11:58,048 --> 01:11:59,587
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997
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998
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999
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1000
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1001
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1002
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1003
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1004
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1005
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1006
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1007
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1008
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1009
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1010
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1011
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1012
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1013
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1014
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1015
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1016
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1017
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1018
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1019
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1020
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1021
01:13:11,108 --> 01:13:14,648
this is, uh, one of my later thoughts about it.

1022
01:13:14,648 --> 01:13:16,688
It's that Bitcoin is not the signal.

1023
01:13:16,688 --> 01:13:21,578
Speaking of Jeff Booth, who's, uh, wrote an article find, uh, titled

1024
01:13:21,583 --> 01:13:25,898
Finding Signal in the Noise, the way I see it, Bitcoin is not the signal.

1025
01:13:26,398 --> 01:13:30,638
But it's the greatest tool for noise removal ever, ever invented.

1026
01:13:30,758 --> 01:13:32,318
Like, that's, that's the thing.

1027
01:13:32,328 --> 01:13:36,878
So we're, we're, by having this noise remover, we enable ourselves to

1028
01:13:36,878 --> 01:13:42,258
find whatever the signal is, because I think the signal is subjective.

1029
01:13:42,348 --> 01:13:42,588
Like,

1030
01:13:43,300 --> 01:13:44,640
Each and everyone has a

1031
01:13:44,668 --> 01:13:46,048
different signal to look

1032
01:13:46,173 --> 01:13:47,213
so true, so true.

1033
01:13:47,693 --> 01:13:50,983
And, and, and, and we all end up being a little bit different as

1034
01:13:51,153 --> 01:13:53,363
Bitcoiners, but funnily enough.

1035
01:13:53,723 --> 01:13:59,733
Um, there's something very basic about us as Bitcoiners as well, like, like,

1036
01:13:59,863 --> 01:14:08,358
I like to think of us as being very human, just like, you know, Bitcoin, it

1037
01:14:08,358 --> 01:14:14,650
gets rid of this concept that we are, and I know this sounds kind of weird,

1038
01:14:14,650 --> 01:14:21,565
but it, it somehow gets rid of my, Judgmentalness, as well, like I don't, I

1039
01:14:21,675 --> 01:14:25,215
don't judge people anymore in a way, like.

1040
01:14:25,930 --> 01:14:29,880
Whatever shape they are, whatever age they are, I honestly believe Bitcoin gets

1041
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:36,490
rid of age, by the way, it, it, it truly feels like we're all on the one level

1042
01:14:36,490 --> 01:14:41,060
here, whether I'm talking, and you know, when I, I think of Princey's kids when,

1043
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:46,210
whenever I meet them at conferences and, and, you know, like I talk to them just

1044
01:14:46,210 --> 01:14:49,920
like I'm talking to you guys, like, like, as in, or I talk to them the way I talk to

1045
01:14:50,900 --> 01:14:56,970
Like, there's no, there's just no barriers anymore to humanness with Bitcoin,

1046
01:14:57,580 --> 01:15:03,180
That reminds me of a David Bowie quote, uh, the uh, aging is the process of slowly

1047
01:15:03,190 --> 01:15:05,620
becoming who you were always meant to be.

1048
01:15:06,274 --> 01:15:10,464
and I think that's, uh, Bitcoin accelerates that process.

1049
01:15:10,877 --> 01:15:11,507
that's absolutely.

1050
01:15:11,567 --> 01:15:16,007
And you know, but I've, I've seen videos of Bowie and I've

1051
01:15:16,007 --> 01:15:18,237
thought, that's fucking magic.

1052
01:15:18,267 --> 01:15:20,447
That's the magic that Bitcoin has.

1053
01:15:20,487 --> 01:15:25,337
Bitcoin is a tool, but what Bitcoin does through us as humans.

1054
01:15:25,657 --> 01:15:26,597
is magical.

1055
01:15:27,007 --> 01:15:33,927
It's, truly what enables us to be authentically ourself, which when we

1056
01:15:33,927 --> 01:15:39,607
become authentically ourself, and that's what Bowie was doing, was magical.

1057
01:15:39,677 --> 01:15:44,107
It, it seemed magical, but he was just channeling, like, like

1058
01:15:44,197 --> 01:15:49,467
you were talking before, like it's, it's this connection with.

1059
01:15:49,667 --> 01:15:52,797
And I, I, you know, Alan Watts is another one that comes to mind now.

1060
01:15:52,827 --> 01:15:58,820
The, the connection with the greater, universe that is speaking through

1061
01:15:58,820 --> 01:16:03,970
you, because, because this is consciousness observing the universe.

1062
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:06,250
It's, that's all we are really.

1063
01:16:06,270 --> 01:16:13,100
We're, we're literally, we're literally observing the universe as the universe in

1064
01:16:13,130 --> 01:16:18,390
this fucking amazing, yeah, consciousness.

1065
01:16:19,210 --> 01:16:19,440
Back

1066
01:16:19,500 --> 01:16:22,380
to the Booth episode here with the consciousness.

1067
01:16:22,620 --> 01:16:25,790
Reality is a reflection of your consciousness back at you.

1068
01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:28,410
Like, uh, I love that.

1069
01:16:29,700 --> 01:16:30,030
Yeah.

1070
01:16:30,220 --> 01:16:36,380
And Bowie, like, his last album, I mean, he died a week after

1071
01:16:36,380 --> 01:16:38,330
he made his last music video.

1072
01:16:39,190 --> 01:16:43,520
And it's absolutely spectacularly good, like, it's scary as fuck, because

1073
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:49,330
he's a dying man, so it's, it's not, it's a dark song, and the visuals are

1074
01:16:49,330 --> 01:16:55,460
very dark, but like, that guy turned his entire life into a piece of art.

1075
01:16:56,797 --> 01:17:02,167
There's a site, there's a site called what David Bowie was doing at your age.

1076
01:17:02,737 --> 01:17:05,697
So you can, if you want to feel bad for your career at any point,

1077
01:17:05,707 --> 01:17:08,547
you can just look up what David Bowie was doing at your age.

1078
01:17:08,877 --> 01:17:12,317
And it's just, oh, he won an Oscar for some movie here, or like,

1079
01:17:12,687 --> 01:17:16,287
he's made three albums here, or he played Wembley Stadium here.

1080
01:17:16,287 --> 01:17:19,857
It's something, something that is way cooler than whatever

1081
01:17:19,857 --> 01:17:21,157
you were doing at that age.

1082
01:17:21,197 --> 01:17:25,857
And I just love that because it's such a, such a role model for artists.

1083
01:17:26,157 --> 01:17:30,147
In general, uh, and he didn't have to make that last album at all.

1084
01:17:30,157 --> 01:17:34,917
It's like, he knew he was dying, like, uh, but he, uh, he made

1085
01:17:34,917 --> 01:17:36,267
it because he had to, like

1086
01:17:36,704 --> 01:17:43,454
yeah, he's such a great example, because there's something about him that was

1087
01:17:43,484 --> 01:17:48,357
kind of a little bit, like I remember a quote of his, and it was, again, it was

1088
01:17:48,357 --> 01:17:53,407
one of his later albums, and somebody asked him, hey man, how do you feel

1089
01:17:53,407 --> 01:17:57,167
about, you know, releasing your new music, you must be really excited, and

1090
01:17:57,167 --> 01:17:59,607
he was like, I'm fucking terrified.

1091
01:17:59,897 --> 01:18:01,677
I'm absolutely fucking terrified.

1092
01:18:02,157 --> 01:18:05,817
I've never, you know, and he was like, but you, you're fucking

1093
01:18:05,827 --> 01:18:09,277
David Bowie, man, like, like, everyone's gonna fucking love it.

1094
01:18:09,277 --> 01:18:16,544
And he was like, man, everything I do is proving to myself again

1095
01:18:17,144 --> 01:18:20,334
that I'm, like, can I do it?

1096
01:18:21,164 --> 01:18:27,261
Like, if I'm going to do something, I need to I need to be completely critical

1097
01:18:27,331 --> 01:18:31,891
of myself, just like I was when I was writing stuff from the very beginning.

1098
01:18:32,501 --> 01:18:36,201
And I thought, wow man, like that, that's fucking intense,

1099
01:18:36,231 --> 01:18:39,411
like, like he's a magician to me.

1100
01:18:39,471 --> 01:18:45,531
Like he's so profound in the way he creates, and like you say, his whole life.

1101
01:18:46,996 --> 01:18:49,736
And, and again, I think this is what Bitcoin is going

1102
01:18:49,736 --> 01:18:51,096
to enable us to do as well.

1103
01:18:51,126 --> 01:18:56,252
It's going to enable every human to be a creator.

1104
01:18:56,732 --> 01:18:57,342
Like there's this

1105
01:18:57,367 --> 01:18:58,637
be more like David Bowie.

1106
01:18:59,487 --> 01:19:01,577
Yeah, to be magical.

1107
01:19:01,617 --> 01:19:08,417
I mean, this weird concept we have that, you know, an artist is a specific kind

1108
01:19:08,417 --> 01:19:14,807
of person and, you know, to be an artist is something specifically special.

1109
01:19:15,357 --> 01:19:17,597
But actually we are all creators.

1110
01:19:17,677 --> 01:19:19,037
I mean, a, a woman.

1111
01:19:19,287 --> 01:19:21,207
is a creation machine.

1112
01:19:21,267 --> 01:19:23,787
I mean, literally, she gives birth, right?

1113
01:19:24,227 --> 01:19:25,757
She expresses milk.

1114
01:19:25,757 --> 01:19:26,907
I mean, she creates.

1115
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:31,220
but being a creator is, um, is what we all are.

1116
01:19:31,765 --> 01:19:39,455
We all are, uh, everything we do is a reflection of ourselves

1117
01:19:39,615 --> 01:19:40,895
coming out into the world.

1118
01:19:41,445 --> 01:19:45,815
And that's what we've forgotten about in fiat terms.

1119
01:19:46,115 --> 01:19:51,335
We've forgotten that, that, you know, because we don't like, we

1120
01:19:51,335 --> 01:19:54,315
don't like what we're bringing out into the world in fiat terms.

1121
01:19:54,315 --> 01:19:57,743
If you're, if you're going to some job that you fucking hate, you're

1122
01:19:57,743 --> 01:20:00,913
bringing something out into the world that you're not proud of, or that

1123
01:20:00,914 --> 01:20:04,873
you're, You're rejecting because, and you're thinking to yourself, I have

1124
01:20:04,873 --> 01:20:07,443
to do this because of X, Y, and Z.

1125
01:20:08,401 --> 01:20:13,141
and you know, yeah, they, all the, all the, I keep thinking, Alan Watson,

1126
01:20:13,141 --> 01:20:14,281
Joseph Campbell, and Carl Jung.

1127
01:20:15,201 --> 01:20:18,491
They were absolute bitcoiners in the sense that they preached

1128
01:20:18,541 --> 01:20:20,621
that go out and find your bliss.

1129
01:20:20,761 --> 01:20:24,756
Go out and, you know, um, ignore the money.

1130
01:20:25,476 --> 01:20:25,816
Right?

1131
01:20:25,866 --> 01:20:34,916
Ignore the, the, the attitude that you need to fit a certain role model.

1132
01:20:35,646 --> 01:20:41,116
Um, and it, and, and, and it's because of people like David Bowie and John Lennon

1133
01:20:41,126 --> 01:20:47,951
that I think, um, you know, they, like, everyone's led to This concept of Bitcoin,

1134
01:20:47,981 --> 01:20:52,581
really, I think it's, it, it, it just happened at a certain time and a certain

1135
01:20:52,581 --> 01:20:58,559
place, but I think Bitcoiners were all over the place before Bitcoin, it's just

1136
01:20:58,579 --> 01:21:03,279
that they, they, you know, they just expressed in different ways and, yeah,

1137
01:21:03,659 --> 01:21:10,019
and musicians are a great example of just how Bitcoin has existed in the past, yeah.

1138
01:21:10,719 --> 01:21:13,029
Frank Zappa would have definitely been a bitcoiner,

1139
01:21:14,119 --> 01:21:14,579
Right?

1140
01:21:14,739 --> 01:21:15,684
and so would Leonardo

1141
01:21:15,869 --> 01:21:16,949
da Vinci, by the way.

1142
01:21:16,949 --> 01:21:18,169
So, like, uh, I can

1143
01:21:18,294 --> 01:21:19,329
think of so many names

1144
01:21:19,679 --> 01:21:20,349
that you just

1145
01:21:20,539 --> 01:21:20,899
know.

1146
01:21:21,049 --> 01:21:21,184
If

1147
01:21:21,229 --> 01:21:22,309
you know, you know, right?

1148
01:21:23,329 --> 01:21:27,379
right, and, and Leonardo was a universal warmall, right?

1149
01:21:27,409 --> 01:21:32,595
This universal human being, that I, and, and, and this is kind of why the chocolate

1150
01:21:32,605 --> 01:21:39,105
thing has kind of come up for me as well, because the music led me to Bitcoin, and

1151
01:21:39,105 --> 01:21:41,455
then the Bitcoin led me to the chocolate.

1152
01:21:41,645 --> 01:21:44,975
And in a way, I don't know where the chocolate's gonna lead me,

1153
01:21:46,421 --> 01:21:46,781
Yeah.

1154
01:21:47,571 --> 01:21:48,981
Anything else on your mind?

1155
01:21:48,991 --> 01:21:51,181
Uh, any of you?

1156
01:21:51,221 --> 01:21:52,021
Like, Luke?

1157
01:21:52,141 --> 01:21:52,611
Roger?

1158
01:21:53,145 --> 01:21:55,005
I'll, I'll leave it with you Roger, by the way.

1159
01:21:55,005 --> 01:21:56,040
Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1160
01:21:56,040 --> 01:21:57,135
I'll, I'll, I'll leave it with you.

1161
01:21:57,135 --> 01:22:01,985
This has been a fantastic conversation, but, uh, I, I, I think if I, if I tease

1162
01:22:01,985 --> 01:22:05,765
this into any more other different rabbit holes, uh, yeah, we'll be here forever.

1163
01:22:05,765 --> 01:22:09,545
So, uh, for, for future conversations, 'cause this was fantastic and we'll

1164
01:22:09,550 --> 01:22:10,835
definitely need to have you back on.

1165
01:22:11,105 --> 01:22:15,935
But yeah, any, any final thoughts and where can, uh, our listeners

1166
01:22:15,935 --> 01:22:18,666
find you on the internet so they can follow you and follow what you do?

1167
01:22:19,785 --> 01:22:25,865
Look, gentlemen, it's been absolutely, um, mind blowing, and I, I, I

1168
01:22:26,045 --> 01:22:33,118
expected it would be, so I'm really happy that my expectations were met.

1169
01:22:33,118 --> 01:22:36,675
I can't wait to see you gentlemen in Perth.

1170
01:22:36,875 --> 01:22:39,075
Are you gonna be at Madeira, by the way?

1171
01:22:40,275 --> 01:22:41,065
Of course!

1172
01:22:41,095 --> 01:22:43,115
I mean, does the Pope shit in the forest?

1173
01:22:43,405 --> 01:22:44,265
Of course we are!

1174
01:22:45,018 --> 01:22:45,668
Excellent.

1175
01:22:45,848 --> 01:22:49,138
Um, I will be there with bells on.

1176
01:22:49,198 --> 01:22:58,378
Um, I'm going to be doing a Bitcoin bush bush bash.

1177
01:22:58,858 --> 01:23:05,088
I do Hope you gentlemen can make it for a Bitcoin push bash one of these days.

1178
01:23:05,660 --> 01:23:14,716
I'm doing one actually here at my place, which, um, is out in the middle of fucking

1179
01:23:14,726 --> 01:23:17,516
nowhere, but that's the whole point of it.

1180
01:23:17,707 --> 01:23:23,277
So that's, that's kind of the next thing I can't wait for, um, but then

1181
01:23:23,277 --> 01:23:28,457
Madeira, yeah, and then Bitcoin Alive?

1182
01:23:28,457 --> 01:23:31,717
Oh no, no, there's Beechworth before that, which is another bush bash.

1183
01:23:32,387 --> 01:23:37,967
But um, is there any chance of seeing either of you at Bitcoin Alive maybe?

1184
01:23:39,072 --> 01:23:41,042
I haven't heard from them yet, so I don't know.

1185
01:23:42,692 --> 01:23:43,472
We'll see.

1186
01:23:43,472 --> 01:23:45,462
I certainly enjoyed it last year.

1187
01:23:45,472 --> 01:23:46,942
Like, it was fantastic.

1188
01:23:47,362 --> 01:23:48,282
I loved Sydney.

1189
01:23:48,492 --> 01:23:49,322
Um, yeah.

1190
01:23:50,172 --> 01:23:53,302
And, um, yeah, but when do you arrive on Madeira, do you know?

1191
01:23:53,342 --> 01:23:58,902
Like, um I'm there quite early, so I'm there for like three weeks, so

1192
01:23:58,902 --> 01:24:00,542
we'll definitely see each other there.

1193
01:24:01,151 --> 01:24:07,159
Oh wow, excellent, yeah, okay, is, um, is, uh, Rock O Moto

1194
01:24:07,169 --> 01:24:09,264
happening at Madeira, do you know?

1195
01:24:09,264 --> 01:24:09,744
That

1196
01:24:10,379 --> 01:24:13,099
Yeah, uh, yeah, I think it is.

1197
01:24:13,799 --> 01:24:16,889
Some type of rockamoto is happening, for sure.

1198
01:24:16,890 --> 01:24:21,369
I don't know the details of it yet, but we'll have to put something together.

1199
01:24:22,504 --> 01:24:23,374
Uh, I'd love that.

1200
01:24:24,024 --> 01:24:27,144
You know, I loved that Enriga when we played that, uh, what's

1201
01:24:27,145 --> 01:24:28,754
it's song, what's the song called?

1202
01:24:28,794 --> 01:24:30,104
Uh, 500 Miles.

1203
01:24:30,134 --> 01:24:32,504
You know, the, I will walk 500 miles.

1204
01:24:32,974 --> 01:24:38,324
It's, it's literally three notes, and I play bass, and, which is, which is

1205
01:24:38,324 --> 01:24:43,329
perfect, because it's, it's so easy to play, so you have, like, The attention

1206
01:24:43,329 --> 01:24:47,739
to actually playing to the song is like 2 percent of the performance and the rest

1207
01:24:47,739 --> 01:24:51,469
is just, yeah, getting people riled up.

1208
01:24:51,899 --> 01:24:53,099
I absolutely love it.

1209
01:24:53,319 --> 01:24:53,659
Yeah.

1210
01:24:54,049 --> 01:24:54,779
Fantastic.

1211
01:24:55,651 --> 01:24:59,081
is the coolest thing about Rockemono, for sure, for sure.

1212
01:24:59,833 --> 01:25:01,693
So where can people find you offline?

1213
01:25:01,693 --> 01:25:04,960
Or online?

1214
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:08,483
Offline is the middle of nowhere, Australia.

1215
01:25:08,903 --> 01:25:11,643
Uh, and, uh, online.

1216
01:25:11,981 --> 01:25:15,981
Um, I mean, I mean, Twitter is roger__9000,

1217
01:25:19,661 --> 01:25:20,621
two underscores,

1218
01:25:21,751 --> 01:25:22,391
Roger9000.

1219
01:25:22,421 --> 01:25:27,913
com is, is my website, and that is, yeah, all the, the YouTube and stuff.

1220
01:25:28,273 --> 01:25:34,953
I've, I've, I've, you know, what I tend to do is, I do a video, which is

1221
01:25:34,973 --> 01:25:38,573
supposed to be a visual of what I do live.

1222
01:25:39,403 --> 01:25:44,583
But, people kind of tell me, man, we don't get any, we don't get any feeling

1223
01:25:44,583 --> 01:25:49,293
for what you do live, online, you know, because what I do live is kind

1224
01:25:49,293 --> 01:25:54,521
of really different to what happens, what people see online, so, I'm kind of

1225
01:25:54,521 --> 01:26:01,701
not big on I guess promoting my online stuff, which is kind of a shame, but I

1226
01:26:01,751 --> 01:26:03,281
don't know, I've got to work that out.

1227
01:26:04,521 --> 01:26:11,361
I kind of feel like I'm missing something there, but um, yeah, I just have so much

1228
01:26:11,361 --> 01:26:15,626
fun playing live, so, yeah, roger9000.

1229
01:26:15,656 --> 01:26:17,936
com, that's probably the best place.

1230
01:26:18,391 --> 01:26:18,691
All right.

1231
01:26:18,731 --> 01:26:20,951
Hey, Roger, thank you so much for joining us.

1232
01:26:21,315 --> 01:26:22,305
You guys are legends.

1233
01:26:22,325 --> 01:26:23,235
Knut, take us away.

1234
01:26:23,705 --> 01:26:23,935
Yeah.

1235
01:26:25,485 --> 01:26:28,455
Don't forget to like, subscribe and brush your teeth and all that, and

1236
01:26:28,745 --> 01:26:32,215
bush bush bash and bash bash bush bish, and all of the other stuff.

1237
01:26:32,305 --> 01:26:36,515
So uh, this has been the Freedom Footprint Show, have a nice rest of

1238
01:26:36,515 --> 01:26:38,815
your life people, and see you next time.