1 00:00:00,030 --> 00:00:04,080 I'm so bullish because I think there's seriously maybe 0. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,360 01 percent of the global population who actually understand Bitcoin. 3 00:00:07,570 --> 00:00:11,730 A lot of people say that there's 10 to 20 to 30 million users of Bitcoin 4 00:00:11,730 --> 00:00:13,750 and, you know, quote unquote crypto. 5 00:00:13,750 --> 00:00:17,330 But I think a very small subset of people actually understand Bitcoin. 6 00:00:17,330 --> 00:00:21,775 And when the world slowly begins to realize what Bitcoin is and why they 7 00:00:21,815 --> 00:00:24,555 desperately need it, I don't think there's going to be many Bitcoin 8 00:00:24,555 --> 00:00:26,415 available for them on exchanges for sale. 9 00:00:26,495 --> 00:00:27,815 So I am very, very bullish. 10 00:00:28,576 --> 00:00:31,516 Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint show, the Bitcoin 11 00:00:31,516 --> 00:00:35,166 philosophy show with Knut Svanholm and me, Luke the Pseudo Finn. 12 00:00:35,876 --> 00:00:39,916 Today, we turn up our energy and our bullishness with Luke Mikic, digital 13 00:00:39,916 --> 00:00:41,876 nomad and Bitcoin content creator. 14 00:00:42,315 --> 00:00:45,665 In this conversation, we get to know Luke and what makes him so bullish. 15 00:00:46,265 --> 00:00:49,446 We explore Bitcoin as a monetary technology, Business in a 16 00:00:49,446 --> 00:00:53,212 hyperbitcoinized world, and the necessity of monetary velocity. 17 00:00:53,634 --> 00:00:57,364 We also get some insight on producing bitcoin content online, and we 18 00:00:57,364 --> 00:00:59,484 debate how fast adoption should be. 19 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,210 Before we jump in, a quick reminder that the best way to support the show 20 00:01:03,250 --> 00:01:06,490 is to send us a boost or a stream of some sats using a value for value 21 00:01:06,510 --> 00:01:08,330 podcasting app such as Fountain. 22 00:01:09,045 --> 00:01:11,905 If you're listening to this show as a podcast, check it out on Fountain. 23 00:01:12,135 --> 00:01:14,425 You can earn sats from listening and you can support us and 24 00:01:14,435 --> 00:01:15,895 all your other favorite shows. 25 00:01:16,425 --> 00:01:19,875 You can also support us on Geyser or send sats directly to our lightning 26 00:01:19,875 --> 00:01:22,365 address, freedom at geyser dot fund. 27 00:01:22,845 --> 00:01:25,115 If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like the episode 28 00:01:25,115 --> 00:01:26,255 and subscribe to the channel. 29 00:01:26,825 --> 00:01:29,615 Even if you're listening as a podcast, head over to the YouTube 30 00:01:29,615 --> 00:01:31,155 channel and subscribe to us there. 31 00:01:31,175 --> 00:01:32,515 It would be a big help. 32 00:01:33,033 --> 00:01:35,133 And finally, we want to thank today's sponsors. 33 00:01:35,458 --> 00:01:40,118 AmberApp, WasabiWallet, OrangePillApp, TheBitcoinWay, and Geyser. 34 00:01:40,618 --> 00:01:43,018 All their information is in the description, we'll be talking 35 00:01:43,018 --> 00:01:44,078 a bit more about them later. 36 00:01:44,486 --> 00:01:49,836 And now, without further ado, here is Luke Mikic on the Freedom Footprint show. 37 00:01:50,494 --> 00:01:52,094 Luke, welcome to the Freedom Footprint Show. 38 00:01:52,104 --> 00:01:52,854 Thanks for joining us. 39 00:01:53,444 --> 00:01:54,794 Thank you so much for having me, lads. 40 00:01:54,794 --> 00:01:56,054 I'm ex pretty excited for this 41 00:01:56,904 --> 00:01:57,844 Oh, great to hear. 42 00:01:58,714 --> 00:02:00,754 This is, a dashing Luke Jr. 43 00:02:00,834 --> 00:02:03,004 as opposed to a Luke Jr. 44 00:02:03,014 --> 00:02:05,274 It's another Luke, and it's Luke Mickage. 45 00:02:06,114 --> 00:02:08,084 Live from where in the world exactly? 46 00:02:08,537 --> 00:02:10,397 I'm in Brazil right now, and it's, 47 00:02:10,681 --> 00:02:13,951 yeah, I, I'm pretty, I'm pretty open with my, uh, surroundings. 48 00:02:13,951 --> 00:02:16,201 I hope nobody tries a $5 wrench attack on me. 49 00:02:16,201 --> 00:02:18,361 I'm in Florian Opolis, Brazil right now. 50 00:02:18,361 --> 00:02:19,711 If anyone does want to try it. 51 00:02:20,064 --> 00:02:20,714 All right. 52 00:02:21,037 --> 00:02:23,777 And, uh, how long have you been in Brazil? 53 00:02:24,357 --> 00:02:26,127 the girlfriend and I did Rio for a month. 54 00:02:26,127 --> 00:02:29,667 We did Sao Polo for a month, and now we're in Florian Opolis for another month. 55 00:02:30,481 --> 00:02:31,751 Florinopolis. 56 00:02:32,581 --> 00:02:34,001 Sounds like Antonopolis. 57 00:02:34,761 --> 00:02:35,011 Sounds 58 00:02:35,261 --> 00:02:36,181 It does a little bit. 59 00:02:37,931 --> 00:02:38,511 It does. 60 00:02:38,621 --> 00:02:39,191 Funny enough. 61 00:02:39,191 --> 00:02:41,271 It's a, it's a little bit like it's namesake, Antonopolis. 62 00:02:42,061 --> 00:02:43,371 There's lots of Bitcoiners down here. 63 00:02:43,371 --> 00:02:45,106 It's a great little part of Brazil. 64 00:02:45,666 --> 00:02:49,056 Um, Polish is a city in, in Greek, right? 65 00:02:49,396 --> 00:02:52,316 Acropolis, all this mm-hmm. 66 00:02:53,022 --> 00:02:57,642 . And you're one of the people in the world who are actually more bullish than I am. 67 00:02:57,642 --> 00:03:00,272 aren't you or are in a race? 68 00:03:02,602 --> 00:03:03,202 let's do it. 69 00:03:03,202 --> 00:03:04,282 A friendly competition. 70 00:03:04,282 --> 00:03:05,842 I reckon we can get pretty bullish today. 71 00:03:07,412 --> 00:03:12,202 Yeah, we were having a small chat about who the most bullish Luke 72 00:03:12,212 --> 00:03:14,422 is, and we, it's probably you. 73 00:03:14,866 --> 00:03:15,236 So. 74 00:03:15,266 --> 00:03:16,016 broils on yet? 75 00:03:16,906 --> 00:03:19,916 We had Broyles on, uh, like half a year ago or something, right? 76 00:03:20,386 --> 00:03:21,386 maybe even earlier than 77 00:03:21,511 --> 00:03:21,761 Now. 78 00:03:21,761 --> 00:03:22,781 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 79 00:03:22,841 --> 00:03:27,721 Uh, when he was first kind of out in the, in the scene and, and all 80 00:03:27,721 --> 00:03:30,581 this, and around the same time you were coming on our radar too. 81 00:03:30,581 --> 00:03:34,031 And, uh, one thing just hasn't led to another quite soon enough. 82 00:03:34,031 --> 00:03:37,061 So super glad to have you here, first of all. 83 00:03:37,061 --> 00:03:44,561 And, can you give us the TLDR on your story and your Bitcoin story and why 84 00:03:44,561 --> 00:03:46,261 you're more bullish than Luke Broyles? 85 00:03:46,261 --> 00:03:46,446 Thanks. 86 00:03:47,556 --> 00:03:48,456 um, okay. 87 00:03:48,461 --> 00:03:50,226 I'll try to keep it as short as I can. 88 00:03:50,286 --> 00:03:52,296 Uh, Bitcoin came across my radar. 89 00:03:52,576 --> 00:03:56,276 When I was 19 at the time, I was at university studying a double 90 00:03:56,276 --> 00:03:57,796 major in maths and chemistry. 91 00:03:58,096 --> 00:04:01,726 I went down the rabbit hole pretty hard in three weeks, listened to just about every, 92 00:04:01,996 --> 00:04:06,246 episode and interview that Max Kaiser and Andreas Antonopoulos ever recorded. 93 00:04:06,556 --> 00:04:07,626 Uh, I learned enough about. 94 00:04:07,696 --> 00:04:10,526 Bitcoin in three weeks to come to the conclusion that I was not 95 00:04:10,526 --> 00:04:11,796 going to go back to university. 96 00:04:12,066 --> 00:04:13,096 So I took a gap year. 97 00:04:13,136 --> 00:04:16,996 I started my own personal training business with the sole goal, just to 98 00:04:17,146 --> 00:04:19,036 free up more time to learn about Bitcoin. 99 00:04:19,106 --> 00:04:19,826 That was 2017. 100 00:04:20,536 --> 00:04:23,296 And since then, I've just been talking shit about Bitcoin full 101 00:04:23,326 --> 00:04:26,406 time online for the past, you know, past three to four years. 102 00:04:26,406 --> 00:04:29,966 It took me a couple of years to wave through the, uh, the sea of 103 00:04:29,966 --> 00:04:32,486 shit coins there in 2018 and 2019. 104 00:04:32,486 --> 00:04:35,346 I learned my lessons and now I'm just trying to tell everybody. 105 00:04:35,651 --> 00:04:39,471 about the, uh, the Bitcoin gospel, because I do believe it's probably the 106 00:04:39,491 --> 00:04:43,431 biggest technological revolution we have ever discovered as a civilization. 107 00:04:43,651 --> 00:04:44,811 I think it's bigger than fire. 108 00:04:44,841 --> 00:04:46,301 I think it's bigger than the wheel. 109 00:04:46,301 --> 00:04:47,811 I think it's bigger than the internet. 110 00:04:48,121 --> 00:04:51,151 Uh, so that is potentially why I could be more bullish than 111 00:04:51,151 --> 00:04:52,871 my namesake, Luke Broyles. 112 00:04:52,891 --> 00:04:53,781 It could just be our youth. 113 00:04:53,871 --> 00:04:55,001 We are both in our twenties. 114 00:04:55,001 --> 00:04:58,031 We're both pretty young and crazy, but I'm pretty bullish myself. 115 00:04:58,031 --> 00:05:01,081 And I'm pretty excited to explore that rabbit hole with you lads today. 116 00:05:02,216 --> 00:05:05,776 Uh oh, I've just, uh, I've just graduated from my 20s, so yeah, I guess that's why 117 00:05:05,776 --> 00:05:07,216 I'm not nearly as bullish as you guys. 118 00:05:07,226 --> 00:05:08,376 Sorry, Knut, go ahead. 119 00:05:09,076 --> 00:05:12,986 Yeah, I'm just curious, is this radar of yours still in your possession, 120 00:05:13,026 --> 00:05:14,366 or did you sell it for sats? 121 00:05:15,521 --> 00:05:16,701 I've sold everything for sats. 122 00:05:16,711 --> 00:05:17,801 You can see I'm standing. 123 00:05:18,001 --> 00:05:19,741 There's no chairs behind me, lads. 124 00:05:20,031 --> 00:05:21,281 Everything's sold for sats. 125 00:05:22,656 --> 00:05:24,156 There's even a hole in the wall there. 126 00:05:24,681 --> 00:05:25,821 Exactly, have a look at it. 127 00:05:26,592 --> 00:05:29,072 We sold your TV as well as your radar, I guess, 128 00:05:29,777 --> 00:05:30,497 It's all gone. 129 00:05:31,662 --> 00:05:32,332 good to hear. 130 00:05:32,532 --> 00:05:37,402 I mean, there's not much use for a radar on dry land anyway. 131 00:05:38,266 --> 00:05:40,006 a good thing you picked up Bitcoin though. 132 00:05:40,129 --> 00:05:40,509 Yeah. 133 00:05:40,719 --> 00:05:45,549 So, so give us, a bit more depth on why you're so bullish about Bitcoin. 134 00:05:45,559 --> 00:05:49,369 Like why, what makes you see this in a way that other people don't? 135 00:05:49,389 --> 00:05:55,549 I know some people do, which this equation on my t shirt may allude to, my stance on 136 00:05:55,579 --> 00:06:00,679 bullishness, but, what does Bitcoin mean to you and why do you love it so much? 137 00:06:01,244 --> 00:06:02,784 I don't even know where to begin. 138 00:06:02,784 --> 00:06:06,034 I, I, I think just the fact that we've discovered digital scarcity, 139 00:06:06,074 --> 00:06:10,301 I think that's going to be an enormous, mind to F excuse my French. 140 00:06:10,301 --> 00:06:13,211 I don't want to get you guys kicked off YouTube, but I think when people 141 00:06:13,211 --> 00:06:16,487 come to realize that there's only 21 million Bitcoin, ever available for 142 00:06:16,537 --> 00:06:19,997 sale, I think you're going to see potentially the biggest supply squeeze, 143 00:06:20,357 --> 00:06:21,797 uh, in financial market history. 144 00:06:21,877 --> 00:06:25,197 I don't even think it's going to be close to any sort of a competition, 145 00:06:25,197 --> 00:06:28,617 but there's going to become a day in the future where every single person on 146 00:06:28,617 --> 00:06:29,877 planet earth is trying to buy Bitcoin. 147 00:06:30,437 --> 00:06:33,097 And today there's only 2 million Bitcoin sitting on exchanges. 148 00:06:33,377 --> 00:06:38,247 So I think a large majority of that 21 million supply is not going to 149 00:06:38,247 --> 00:06:39,417 move for the next hundred years. 150 00:06:39,687 --> 00:06:43,067 It's going to flow into the hands of people like Michael Saylor, who in 151 00:06:43,067 --> 00:06:46,027 his own words, if we believe Michael Saylor, I know some people don't, 152 00:06:46,057 --> 00:06:49,057 but I personally do, if you believe Michael Saylor, he's not going to 153 00:06:49,057 --> 00:06:50,267 sell his coins for a hundred years. 154 00:06:50,657 --> 00:06:53,687 There's, you know, Michael Saylor sitting on 150, 000 coins. 155 00:06:53,947 --> 00:06:54,157 There's 156 00:06:54,207 --> 00:06:56,837 No, it's a, he's going to die with them. 157 00:06:56,887 --> 00:06:59,757 At least that's what he alluded to on our show here. 158 00:06:59,757 --> 00:07:01,017 Luke, uh, Luke, right. 159 00:07:01,187 --> 00:07:01,507 Too many 160 00:07:01,537 --> 00:07:02,377 Please elaborate. 161 00:07:02,607 --> 00:07:02,957 Yep. 162 00:07:03,022 --> 00:07:05,682 is gonna get confusing if you just say Luke, Knut. 163 00:07:06,232 --> 00:07:11,122 You're Luke, our guest Luke, you're Luke for today, I can be something else, 164 00:07:11,282 --> 00:07:16,812 You can be Finn, other people have called you Finn because of the pseudo fin I call. 165 00:07:17,082 --> 00:07:20,282 Can I call you danger because I know that's your middle name? 166 00:07:21,002 --> 00:07:22,512 Yes, Danger is my middle name, 167 00:07:22,672 --> 00:07:22,972 Yeah. 168 00:07:22,972 --> 00:07:23,302 Yeah. 169 00:07:23,307 --> 00:07:23,702 Good, 170 00:07:23,847 --> 00:07:26,677 you could call me crazy hair Luke, that might be a little bit easier. 171 00:07:27,257 --> 00:07:27,742 Yeah. 172 00:07:27,772 --> 00:07:28,252 Okay. 173 00:07:28,352 --> 00:07:32,472 So, Michael Sailor was on the show and he said something that he has 174 00:07:32,472 --> 00:07:34,062 alluded to in other shows as well. 175 00:07:34,112 --> 00:07:38,532 What he said was like the most altruistic thing a person can do is 176 00:07:38,532 --> 00:07:42,412 die with their bitcoins in their heads, uh, because then you take them off 177 00:07:42,412 --> 00:07:45,572 market forever and you increase the scarcity of the, uh, of the thing. 178 00:07:45,892 --> 00:07:51,822 So, you help everyone on earth instead of giving them to a select few people, 179 00:07:51,922 --> 00:07:55,612 you give them to everyone, or you give the value of the scarcity To everyone. 180 00:07:55,832 --> 00:07:58,082 Uh, so what are your thoughts when you hear that? 181 00:07:58,721 --> 00:08:01,131 I feel like there's going to be a growing cohort of people 182 00:08:01,131 --> 00:08:02,491 who see Bitcoin the same way. 183 00:08:02,491 --> 00:08:05,671 I think all three of us on this call are probably going to do something similar. 184 00:08:05,991 --> 00:08:09,141 I know the small amount of coins that I sit on won't be 185 00:08:09,141 --> 00:08:11,281 moving for many, many decades. 186 00:08:11,311 --> 00:08:13,141 They'll be passed on to my future generations. 187 00:08:13,141 --> 00:08:14,591 I don't even have kids yet. 188 00:08:14,591 --> 00:08:15,861 I don't even have a wife yet. 189 00:08:15,931 --> 00:08:16,471 Sorry, honey. 190 00:08:16,471 --> 00:08:17,211 She's in the lounge room. 191 00:08:17,211 --> 00:08:18,271 She can hear me say that. 192 00:08:18,271 --> 00:08:19,611 There will be a ring coming one day. 193 00:08:19,971 --> 00:08:22,701 Uh, but I mean, like I, I'm not moving my Bitcoin for a long time. 194 00:08:22,701 --> 00:08:23,901 And I, I think the. 195 00:08:24,266 --> 00:08:27,806 10 20 or 30 thousands psychopaths on Twitter probably feel 196 00:08:27,806 --> 00:08:28,876 about Bitcoin the same way. 197 00:08:28,876 --> 00:08:33,016 And I'm so bullish because I think there's seriously maybe 0. 198 00:08:33,016 --> 00:08:36,296 01 percent of the global population who actually understand Bitcoin. 199 00:08:36,506 --> 00:08:40,666 A lot of people say that there's 10 to 20 to 30 million users of Bitcoin 200 00:08:40,666 --> 00:08:42,686 and, you know, quote unquote crypto. 201 00:08:42,686 --> 00:08:46,266 But I think a very small subset of people actually understand Bitcoin. 202 00:08:46,266 --> 00:08:50,711 And when the world slowly begins to realize what Bitcoin is and why they 203 00:08:50,751 --> 00:08:53,491 desperately need it, I don't think there's going to be many Bitcoin 204 00:08:53,491 --> 00:08:55,351 available for them on exchanges for sale. 205 00:08:55,431 --> 00:08:56,751 So I am very, very bullish. 206 00:08:57,349 --> 00:08:58,489 No, I totally agree. 207 00:08:58,525 --> 00:09:01,422 everyone underestimates this upcoming satsqueeze. 208 00:09:02,119 --> 00:09:06,409 that's what Adam Beck told us that, according to him and his interpretation 209 00:09:06,414 --> 00:09:10,784 of glass node data, there's a million or a million addresses with around one 210 00:09:10,784 --> 00:09:16,114 coin in them that they think are, uh, D CERs that have accumulated, that had 211 00:09:16,114 --> 00:09:23,279 the target of one coin and like, Only of like 2 million can do that maybe. 212 00:09:24,259 --> 00:09:28,369 But then it gets tricky because there just aren't enough coins and the people 213 00:09:28,369 --> 00:09:32,379 who already have one coin, many of them are going to want another coin. 214 00:09:33,189 --> 00:09:37,934 And, and also if people do the altruistic move and die with the coins. 215 00:09:37,964 --> 00:09:41,159 I mean we idiots here we are the first generation of Bitcoiners. 216 00:09:41,949 --> 00:09:46,699 And we're going to squander them away in droves, like there's not going to 217 00:09:46,699 --> 00:09:49,119 be much left for future generations. 218 00:09:49,709 --> 00:09:51,559 So whatever's left is good. 219 00:09:52,309 --> 00:09:56,186 It's still going to be divisible, but especially, on the Lightning Network 220 00:09:56,216 --> 00:10:02,496 and, and such like to, , infinitesimal parts, but they're going to be so scarce. 221 00:10:02,546 --> 00:10:06,626 So, just the same demand as now over a long enough time period. 222 00:10:07,476 --> 00:10:12,536 It also leads to that Heinz ketchup bottle effect, like gradually then suddenly. 223 00:10:12,746 --> 00:10:13,966 is that the way you see it too? 224 00:10:14,946 --> 00:10:15,366 Yeah. 225 00:10:15,396 --> 00:10:19,326 I think like, I think something in Bitcoin fundamentally changed three years ago. 226 00:10:19,496 --> 00:10:22,416 Like for the first time in Bitcoin's life, coins actually started 227 00:10:22,426 --> 00:10:24,466 leaving exchanges in March of 2020. 228 00:10:24,716 --> 00:10:28,876 for the first 10 years, that amount of Bitcoin sitting on exchanges only grew. 229 00:10:28,876 --> 00:10:30,536 So it went from zero to like 3 million. 230 00:10:30,866 --> 00:10:34,166 Today, we're sitting at around 2 million ish coins sitting on exchanges. 231 00:10:34,406 --> 00:10:37,296 So in the past three years, you've literally just watched a million 232 00:10:37,296 --> 00:10:38,936 coins disappear off exchanges. 233 00:10:39,216 --> 00:10:40,196 We don't know where they're going. 234 00:10:40,266 --> 00:10:43,676 All we know from that on chain data you mentioned there, Knut, is it's 235 00:10:43,676 --> 00:10:46,646 going to wallets who don't have a history of selling their Bitcoin. 236 00:10:47,101 --> 00:10:51,091 So I think like that supply squeeze, that ketchup bottle some sort 237 00:10:51,091 --> 00:10:52,151 of a squeeze that he's coming. 238 00:10:52,151 --> 00:10:53,691 I think it's going to come pretty, pretty soon. 239 00:10:54,001 --> 00:10:57,491 Uh, like if you extrapolate forwards the past three years of data, 240 00:10:57,681 --> 00:11:01,401 you've got no Bitcoin sitting on exchanges in around 2028, 2029. 241 00:11:01,401 --> 00:11:04,141 I mean, there's only 2 million Bitcoin sitting on exchanges. 242 00:11:04,481 --> 00:11:07,971 Um, and I've got a thesis that we're going to see some sort of billionaire FOMO. 243 00:11:08,281 --> 00:11:12,691 So Michael Saylor's got 150, 000 coins and right now there's only enough 244 00:11:12,711 --> 00:11:16,821 Bitcoin sitting on exchanges for like 10 or 11 or maybe 12 Michael Saylor 245 00:11:16,841 --> 00:11:21,611 to also accumulate 150, 000 coins that he holds between himself and 246 00:11:21,611 --> 00:11:23,761 his, micro strategy corporate entity. 247 00:11:23,911 --> 00:11:26,561 So you've got enough Bitcoin for 12 Michael Saylor and 248 00:11:26,561 --> 00:11:27,471 there's like, uh, what is it? 249 00:11:27,471 --> 00:11:31,431 Is there 50, 000 public companies and something like 3 to 4, 000 250 00:11:31,451 --> 00:11:36,571 billionaires all potentially fighting over 2, 000 Bitcoin left on exchanges? 251 00:11:37,556 --> 00:11:41,946 Yeah, this, this reminds me of a video we made a couple of years back about the 252 00:11:42,236 --> 00:11:47,286 S curve adoption of new technologies, where you have this ketchup effect, 253 00:11:47,316 --> 00:11:52,356 and then there's a saturation at the other end of the S, where it levels out. 254 00:11:52,796 --> 00:11:57,336 So like the TV or the smartphone or the internet, they all 255 00:11:57,336 --> 00:11:59,016 had S shaped adoption curves. 256 00:11:59,016 --> 00:12:02,189 And, it went very quickly for a short period. 257 00:12:02,189 --> 00:12:06,759 And then when everyone's, uh, basically everyone on earth is on board and has 258 00:12:06,759 --> 00:12:08,609 a smartphone, then it levels out again. 259 00:12:08,906 --> 00:12:12,046 and that is probably the case for Bitcoin as well. 260 00:12:12,676 --> 00:12:17,329 Uh, but the, the, the thing we argued for in that video is like, we don't really 261 00:12:17,329 --> 00:12:21,269 see that happening to the Bitcoin's price though, that will not follow an S curve. 262 00:12:21,819 --> 00:12:23,809 It would just continue to go up. 263 00:12:23,839 --> 00:12:27,956 And I've been thinking this over so many times and it's kind of hard to 264 00:12:27,956 --> 00:12:31,506 wrap your head around because like, there's something to be said for in 265 00:12:31,506 --> 00:12:35,196 a hyperbitcoinized world where the only thing that is used as a medium of 266 00:12:35,196 --> 00:12:38,056 exchange between people at all is Bitcoin. 267 00:12:38,476 --> 00:12:43,359 then Bitcoin will only reflect the total purchasing power of society. 268 00:12:43,989 --> 00:12:48,479 And that's expected to go up by five to 15 percent per year. 269 00:12:48,479 --> 00:12:51,089 So it is still appreciated 15%. 270 00:12:51,699 --> 00:12:56,659 But think that through one step further after hyperbitcoinization, 271 00:12:58,869 --> 00:13:01,039 we have a global free markets. 272 00:13:01,377 --> 00:13:05,297 based on sound money, no interventionism, nothing. 273 00:13:05,697 --> 00:13:10,644 And you add to that AIs and stuff, like it's just unstoppable what the 274 00:13:10,644 --> 00:13:14,044 human race can do with that power. 275 00:13:14,054 --> 00:13:15,037 Like, I don't think. 276 00:13:15,372 --> 00:13:21,592 15 percent growth is a given just because that's the case now when we measure 277 00:13:21,602 --> 00:13:24,782 bullshit metrics like BNP, GDP and stuff. 278 00:13:24,872 --> 00:13:29,942 BNP is the Swedish abbreviation, but it's GDP, which includes 279 00:13:30,052 --> 00:13:33,842 medication and stuff so the actual. 280 00:13:34,547 --> 00:13:38,587 Advancement of civilization will accelerate obviously, because the 281 00:13:38,587 --> 00:13:43,047 market is more well oiled, very much like I view the current fiat 282 00:13:43,197 --> 00:13:48,167 paradigm, global market as a dog on three legs at best, because there's 283 00:13:48,187 --> 00:13:52,857 interventionism everywhere, and therefore resource misallocation everywhere. 284 00:13:53,019 --> 00:13:54,181 what are your views on that? 285 00:13:54,241 --> 00:13:59,111 Will Bitcoin have an only up point where there's only upwards after that 286 00:13:59,111 --> 00:14:01,791 point and it cannot ever go down again. 287 00:14:01,891 --> 00:14:02,821 Like, how do you see that? 288 00:14:03,736 --> 00:14:07,536 Yeah, I think I actually, so I wrote an article on this topic in 2021 saying, 289 00:14:07,536 --> 00:14:10,216 look, Bitcoin's a monetary technology. 290 00:14:10,516 --> 00:14:13,426 If we think it's a technology that's going to go mainstream, it should follow 291 00:14:13,866 --> 00:14:16,256 this kind of S curve adoption path. 292 00:14:16,506 --> 00:14:20,646 And I remember specifically quoting that video that you guys made, uh, over 293 00:14:20,646 --> 00:14:25,436 on Ione Apperberg's YouTube channel, because it influenced my thinking a lot. 294 00:14:25,766 --> 00:14:29,826 And I think you guys actually said, no, Bitcoin is not an S curve. 295 00:14:30,026 --> 00:14:33,436 An S curve assumes that your adoption's actually going to level off at some stage. 296 00:14:33,776 --> 00:14:37,186 But as you kind of alluded to, Bitcoin's a monetary J curve. 297 00:14:37,236 --> 00:14:41,386 It's going up forever because Bitcoin is the savings account of the world. 298 00:14:41,486 --> 00:14:44,416 If the world continues to become more and more productive into the 299 00:14:44,416 --> 00:14:48,586 future, where are those continued productivity gains going to be stored? 300 00:14:48,886 --> 00:14:51,226 They're not going to be stored in some speculative tech 301 00:14:51,236 --> 00:14:52,456 stock like they are today. 302 00:14:52,646 --> 00:14:55,946 They're going to be stored in the world's dominant store of value, which is money. 303 00:14:55,946 --> 00:14:59,616 It's going to be stored in Bitcoin and Bitcoin is going to go up forever. 304 00:14:59,756 --> 00:15:04,426 So I think like, I think the biggest meme in Bitcoin today in 2023 is this 305 00:15:04,426 --> 00:15:06,606 idea of diminishing returns theory. 306 00:15:06,816 --> 00:15:10,346 Lots of people have drawn these cute little models over the past 12 years. 307 00:15:10,346 --> 00:15:13,256 And they've said, Oh, look, you know, Bitcoin's giving diminishing 308 00:15:13,256 --> 00:15:15,266 returns every four year bull market. 309 00:15:15,446 --> 00:15:18,626 And I think all of these stupid models like that are going to be absolutely. 310 00:15:19,686 --> 00:15:22,756 Um, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, 311 00:15:22,756 --> 00:15:25,359 uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, 312 00:15:25,359 --> 00:15:28,252 uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, 313 00:15:28,252 --> 00:15:31,145 uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, 314 00:15:31,145 --> 00:15:34,038 uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, 315 00:15:34,038 --> 00:15:35,846 uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, 316 00:15:39,426 --> 00:15:51,346 uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh Bitcoin's an all or nothing binary bet, the same way 317 00:15:52,726 --> 00:15:56,926 CKE does, and I think it either becomes the dominant store of value for the 318 00:15:56,926 --> 00:15:58,626 world or it fails and it goes to zero. 319 00:15:58,976 --> 00:16:01,426 Um, so I think it's really an all or nothing kind of bet here. 320 00:16:01,907 --> 00:16:02,377 Yeah. 321 00:16:02,427 --> 00:16:05,307 That's so fascinating to think about. 322 00:16:05,487 --> 00:16:07,081 Because Bitcoin is. 323 00:16:07,571 --> 00:16:11,071 Deflationary, especially in the long run, like there's no way around that, 324 00:16:11,071 --> 00:16:13,031 especially as we start losing sats. 325 00:16:13,791 --> 00:16:17,301 Because after 2140, it's absolutely deflationary because 326 00:16:17,311 --> 00:16:19,124 more sats lost than found. 327 00:16:19,124 --> 00:16:19,174 Already, 328 00:16:21,237 --> 00:16:24,317 there's like 92 percent of the supply or something that have 329 00:16:24,787 --> 00:16:25,967 already been found, right? 330 00:16:26,384 --> 00:16:28,214 So most of the coins are already out there. 331 00:16:28,284 --> 00:16:32,694 And the remaining million, it's going to be mined over more than a hundred 332 00:16:32,694 --> 00:16:37,284 years, which is so weird to think about. 333 00:16:38,199 --> 00:16:41,589 the Keynesian argument is that deflation is bad because you don't 334 00:16:41,589 --> 00:16:46,249 get the velocity of money because people will spend less and they see 335 00:16:46,279 --> 00:16:48,839 every transaction as creating value. 336 00:16:49,124 --> 00:16:53,157 Which I think is flawed, because that doesn't take into account that 337 00:16:53,467 --> 00:16:57,705 people in that type of environment, in an inflationary environment, they 338 00:16:57,705 --> 00:17:00,995 will prioritize quantity over quality. 339 00:17:01,425 --> 00:17:05,665 So what Bitcoin does is it reverses that, uh, completely. 340 00:17:05,935 --> 00:17:07,450 I always like to say that it's... 341 00:17:07,930 --> 00:17:09,730 The one divided by clown world. 342 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,520 It's the literal inverse of the clown world over consumerist 343 00:17:13,650 --> 00:17:17,650 bullshit world where politicized everywhere thing we're living in now. 344 00:17:18,304 --> 00:17:22,554 so what that means is that everyone on earth will know the preciousness of 345 00:17:22,564 --> 00:17:26,534 their bitcoins and therefore they will be very careful with spending them. 346 00:17:26,834 --> 00:17:31,294 But envisioning what a hyperbitcoinized world actually looks like is 347 00:17:31,334 --> 00:17:36,309 so weird Everyone's stack will need to diminish over time. 348 00:17:36,649 --> 00:17:40,158 Very few people will actually be able to have black numbers 349 00:17:40,158 --> 00:17:41,158 on their balance sheets. 350 00:17:41,158 --> 00:17:43,658 Everyone's stack will go down over time. 351 00:17:43,968 --> 00:17:47,918 Still, their purchasing power can still go up since the value of the coins go up. 352 00:17:48,114 --> 00:17:50,768 or the value of everything else, then the coins go up. 353 00:17:50,768 --> 00:17:55,208 So I imagine a world where you can start a company, which by the way in the future is 354 00:17:55,213 --> 00:17:57,008 nothing but a telegram group or something. 355 00:17:57,248 --> 00:18:00,428 You don't really need every, all these other structures that are around 356 00:18:00,548 --> 00:18:04,898 companies, uh, legal structures and, you know, government imposed stuff. 357 00:18:04,932 --> 00:18:09,342 you just need a bunch of people who talk to one another to start a business and. 358 00:18:10,657 --> 00:18:16,610 I even see a scenario when people start businesses not to make 359 00:18:16,610 --> 00:18:22,380 more bitcoins, but to make their stacks diminish a little slower. 360 00:18:22,780 --> 00:18:27,730 it's like the derivative of the, the gain curve and not the gains themselves. 361 00:18:28,130 --> 00:18:29,950 So, there's so much to explore there. 362 00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:31,120 Have you given a. 363 00:18:31,570 --> 00:18:35,380 A lot of thought to a post hyperbitcoinization scenario, 364 00:18:35,380 --> 00:18:37,130 what that actually means. 365 00:18:38,450 --> 00:18:41,570 Yeah, I think it's gonna, like you say, I think it's gonna be 366 00:18:41,570 --> 00:18:42,950 the antithesis of CloudMortar. 367 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:44,710 Everything's gonna look so much different. 368 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,120 Today everybody's gorging on debt. 369 00:18:47,150 --> 00:18:49,560 There's like 400 trillion dollars of debt around the world. 370 00:18:49,900 --> 00:18:53,200 On a Bitcoin standard, I see that shrinking by 90%. 371 00:18:53,690 --> 00:18:56,920 Like it's just going to be really difficult to take out 372 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,820 debt in a form of money that's appreciating at such a rapid rate. 373 00:19:01,225 --> 00:19:05,125 Even if we're ultra conservative, and let's say Bitcoin's only appreciating at 374 00:19:05,155 --> 00:19:10,645 say like 5 or 10 percent per year, if you take out debt, you're going to have 375 00:19:10,645 --> 00:19:12,965 to outpace that appreciation of Bitcoin. 376 00:19:13,165 --> 00:19:16,545 You need to start a business that right out the bat is appreciating at 377 00:19:16,910 --> 00:19:19,190 Faster than 5 or 10 percent per year. 378 00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:20,260 And that's very difficult. 379 00:19:20,460 --> 00:19:22,820 How long has it taken Tesla to become profitable? 380 00:19:22,820 --> 00:19:24,210 I don't think they're even profitable. 381 00:19:24,330 --> 00:19:27,880 I think they rely only on government handouts and government subsidies. 382 00:19:28,220 --> 00:19:30,780 So some of the most successful and biggest companies around the world 383 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,097 today, only have the market cap that they do because they've been able to. 384 00:19:34,097 --> 00:19:35,067 Feast on this debt. 385 00:19:35,087 --> 00:19:37,067 They've been extraordinarily wasteful. 386 00:19:37,297 --> 00:19:40,497 They've been pursuing ideas that simply aren't profitable and the free market 387 00:19:40,497 --> 00:19:44,907 doesn't really, uh, you know, want, they don't desire the products they're making, 388 00:19:44,907 --> 00:19:49,237 like Budweiser, for example, all of the ridiculous marketing that they're doing 389 00:19:49,247 --> 00:19:51,247 around the world is completely uneconomic. 390 00:19:51,307 --> 00:19:53,457 They can only do it because there's a money printer. 391 00:19:53,457 --> 00:19:55,437 They can cozy up to and get endless debt. 392 00:19:55,717 --> 00:19:58,377 So I think there's going to be like a debt is probably the biggest thing. 393 00:19:58,752 --> 00:20:01,752 Potentially going to flip on a Bitcoin standard, and that's going to 394 00:20:01,752 --> 00:20:03,312 change everybody's time preference. 395 00:20:03,682 --> 00:20:06,792 Uh, you're going to have to change the way you think about money, and you're 396 00:20:06,792 --> 00:20:10,592 going to have to change the way you think about how you allocate your money and 397 00:20:10,592 --> 00:20:12,672 your savings, um, on a Bitcoin standard. 398 00:20:13,857 --> 00:20:19,507 Yeah, Budweiser might not be gay, but it's still like making love in a canoe. 399 00:20:20,397 --> 00:20:21,957 Like, it's fucking close to water. 400 00:20:22,462 --> 00:20:22,762 Yeah, 401 00:20:23,282 --> 00:20:24,312 Yeah, so... 402 00:20:24,755 --> 00:20:28,545 I'd like to explain another one of my current thoughts around what Bitcoin 403 00:20:28,545 --> 00:20:33,574 is, maybe you've heard it before that when you really think deep and 404 00:20:33,584 --> 00:20:37,619 hard about what owning a Bitcoin means or possessing a Bitcoin means, 405 00:20:38,019 --> 00:20:40,269 it's nothing but Keeping a secret. 406 00:20:40,728 --> 00:20:45,478 it's either the location of a Bitcoin private key or the actual private key 407 00:20:45,478 --> 00:20:49,848 itself, but it doesn't really matter you've hidden it properly, the secret 408 00:20:49,928 --> 00:20:55,888 is the Bitcoin, like whoever has that secret in their brains, has the Bitcoins 409 00:20:55,988 --> 00:20:58,618 and only brains can keep secrets. 410 00:20:58,718 --> 00:21:03,875 So, in effect, that means that we are our bitcoins, everyone in bitcoin is the 411 00:21:03,875 --> 00:21:11,475 bitcoins, and also if you think about miners and nodes, the computers used in 412 00:21:11,475 --> 00:21:16,455 mining and in just running a bitcoin node Each and every computer is just a fancy 413 00:21:16,455 --> 00:21:19,105 abacus that helps us, with calculation. 414 00:21:19,825 --> 00:21:22,555 So the, the ASIC is not the miner. 415 00:21:22,605 --> 00:21:25,865 It's the guy owning the ASIC and deciding to run the software. 416 00:21:26,625 --> 00:21:29,745 And the node is not the, it's not the Raspberry Pi. 417 00:21:29,805 --> 00:21:33,888 It's the guy who owns the Raspberry Pi and runs Umbra or whatever, or Bitcoin Core. 418 00:21:34,335 --> 00:21:37,745 So every participant in Bitcoin is those Bitcoins. 419 00:21:38,205 --> 00:21:42,435 And to me, this is one of the more philosophical rabbit holes 420 00:21:42,435 --> 00:21:46,565 to fall into in this, because that means we run this mathematical 421 00:21:46,615 --> 00:21:48,475 experiment in the back of our heads. 422 00:21:49,105 --> 00:21:55,335 And somehow it unlocks a way for us to, not only transact, but to interact 423 00:21:55,335 --> 00:22:00,603 with one another in ways that are, Possible to explore pre Bitcoin. 424 00:22:01,303 --> 00:22:05,563 So, so, so humanity gets into a whole new level and, and us three, for 425 00:22:05,563 --> 00:22:10,383 instance, we're all incentivized to help one another because we're Bitcoiners. 426 00:22:10,383 --> 00:22:14,673 And we know if we help other Bitcoiners succeed with whatever their 427 00:22:15,203 --> 00:22:19,413 endeavor is, we help Bitcoin succeed because we help other Bitcoiners. 428 00:22:19,893 --> 00:22:23,163 And it's not only that we, we all want Bitcoin to succeed. 429 00:22:23,213 --> 00:22:26,523 So we all want to, you know, quote unquote, pump our bags. 430 00:22:27,108 --> 00:22:30,878 You know, the power of hodling and the power of a low time preference. 431 00:22:31,275 --> 00:22:35,605 So we're all incentivized to keep a low time preference and help one another. 432 00:22:35,838 --> 00:22:41,438 And what I see that leading to is a world where money gets used less and less. 433 00:22:41,953 --> 00:22:45,073 Because everyone's incentivized to just be awesome to one another 434 00:22:45,663 --> 00:22:50,363 without exchanging anything, because everyone knows how precious sats are. 435 00:22:50,863 --> 00:22:54,493 And do you even need to transact at all if you could just help the 436 00:22:54,493 --> 00:22:57,463 other guy and you know you'll get something back sooner or later. 437 00:22:57,463 --> 00:23:01,056 So like, these are the more ephemeral thoughts I have around this. 438 00:23:02,021 --> 00:23:02,811 What are your thoughts? 439 00:23:04,041 --> 00:23:06,551 I think it's a really interesting rabbit hole to explore. 440 00:23:06,551 --> 00:23:09,031 It's something I haven't given a whole bunch of thought, but I think 441 00:23:09,031 --> 00:23:10,831 it's like Bitcoin takes money back. 442 00:23:10,876 --> 00:23:14,646 To some of its earliest roots, like money has always been a ledger. 443 00:23:14,716 --> 00:23:18,446 And back in the early days when we were like hunters and gatherers, 444 00:23:18,446 --> 00:23:21,546 just slowly discovering what money was, it was a lot more like that. 445 00:23:21,556 --> 00:23:22,856 It was a lot more communal. 446 00:23:23,106 --> 00:23:26,126 It was more like a reputation based, small community where 447 00:23:26,126 --> 00:23:27,386 you do a favor for someone else. 448 00:23:27,386 --> 00:23:30,071 and They repay you and do a favor back to you. 449 00:23:30,191 --> 00:23:32,811 And so I think Bitcoin is going to completely flip, 450 00:23:33,021 --> 00:23:34,411 how we think about money. 451 00:23:34,411 --> 00:23:38,201 That's something I've never thought about how, , that's going to kind of decrease 452 00:23:38,211 --> 00:23:41,511 the transactions because we're just going to want to do favors for each other. 453 00:23:41,511 --> 00:23:44,581 That's a really interesting rabbit hole that I personally need to 454 00:23:44,581 --> 00:23:46,431 think about a little bit more, but. 455 00:23:46,776 --> 00:23:50,916 Uh, like you say, when you are your Bitcoin, that changes not only how you 456 00:23:50,956 --> 00:23:55,966 interact with some peers in your society and your community around you, but it 457 00:23:55,966 --> 00:23:59,706 also changes like the logic of violence, like gone are the days that you can just 458 00:24:00,096 --> 00:24:04,146 storm into someone's home, kill them and take all their wealth, whether it's stored 459 00:24:04,146 --> 00:24:10,906 in gold, fiat, or a safe or stupid Rolex watches, like shit boy crypto has, like 460 00:24:10,906 --> 00:24:12,856 now to actually get somebody's wealth, 461 00:24:12,951 --> 00:24:13,761 by crapto. 462 00:24:14,426 --> 00:24:15,466 Yeah, I like that. 463 00:24:16,186 --> 00:24:16,656 That's great. 464 00:24:16,706 --> 00:24:17,686 Shit boy, crap though. 465 00:24:18,216 --> 00:24:20,496 Yeah, Bitcoin completely changes all of that. 466 00:24:20,586 --> 00:24:24,186 For thousands of years, you could just roll into another city, kill 467 00:24:24,186 --> 00:24:27,156 everybody and take their gold and you've got all of their wealth. 468 00:24:27,536 --> 00:24:29,416 Gone are the days of that on a Bitcoin standard. 469 00:24:29,436 --> 00:24:31,976 You actually need to get the secret out of their head. 470 00:24:32,326 --> 00:24:35,066 Sure, some people might give up their secret if they're tortured 471 00:24:35,066 --> 00:24:36,666 enough, but I know some people won't. 472 00:24:36,686 --> 00:24:36,876 And it's... 473 00:24:37,591 --> 00:24:41,351 If you store your Bitcoin correctly in a multi signature setup, it's actually 474 00:24:41,351 --> 00:24:43,391 impossible to get somebody's wealth. 475 00:24:43,965 --> 00:24:48,145 Yeah, just from a game theory perspective there, you get 476 00:24:48,155 --> 00:24:49,825 half if you torture someone. 477 00:24:50,215 --> 00:24:54,725 Like, half the time you kill them and you get nothing, and half the time you 478 00:24:54,725 --> 00:25:00,105 get everything, or like, I think there's some game theoretical argument to be 479 00:25:00,105 --> 00:25:05,105 made for the average being half over time given enough transactions, or threats. 480 00:25:06,185 --> 00:25:07,275 think that's a good average. 481 00:25:07,335 --> 00:25:08,165 I think that's a good average. 482 00:25:08,195 --> 00:25:12,139 I think that average will skew the further we move on to a Bitcoin setup. 483 00:25:12,140 --> 00:25:15,380 Standard because I'm hopeful that more and more people, uh, will 484 00:25:15,380 --> 00:25:17,720 adopt superior, security practices. 485 00:25:17,900 --> 00:25:21,540 Like I'm pretty comfortable doxxing my full name out there, because I have 486 00:25:21,545 --> 00:25:23,250 a pretty secure multisignature setup. 487 00:25:23,255 --> 00:25:25,440 Like if someone wants my Bitcoin, all right, put me on 488 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:26,640 a flight, get cozy with me. 489 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,980 'cause you're gonna have to take me to Australia as well as a few 490 00:25:28,980 --> 00:25:32,880 other countries who actually get all of my private keys to move Bitcoin 491 00:25:32,910 --> 00:25:34,410 outta my Multisignature wallet. 492 00:25:34,660 --> 00:25:35,680 And I think as. 493 00:25:35,820 --> 00:25:36,920 Technology advances. 494 00:25:36,990 --> 00:25:41,590 And as that becomes a lot more easier and accessible for the everyday person 495 00:25:41,590 --> 00:25:45,550 to do, I'm pretty hopeful that that's going to actually decrease the amount 496 00:25:45,550 --> 00:25:47,480 of violence, um, on a Bitcoin standard. 497 00:25:47,540 --> 00:25:50,100 So I'm super bullish on what Bitcoin is going to do. 498 00:25:50,660 --> 00:25:55,240 Yeah, I tried to put all the gist of that into a sentence of one of my books. 499 00:25:55,240 --> 00:26:00,077 And I think it is, uh, the line is, when you cannot know how much another 500 00:26:00,077 --> 00:26:04,428 person owns and you cannot take it by force, there's no other way for 501 00:26:04,428 --> 00:26:07,688 you to extract value from that person than giving something of value back. 502 00:26:08,277 --> 00:26:11,887 And this is a key point when you cannot know how much another person owns, 503 00:26:12,187 --> 00:26:17,507 because right now it is true that it's impossible for anyone on earth to know how 504 00:26:17,527 --> 00:26:21,797 much bitcoins anyone else actually owns. 505 00:26:22,317 --> 00:26:27,939 You may be able to do some chain anal stuff and find out a part of that 506 00:26:28,179 --> 00:26:33,459 person's bitcoin stack, but you cannot prove that you don't own a bitcoin. 507 00:26:33,469 --> 00:26:37,982 Like, since it's just keeping a secret, There's no way of knowing how many other 508 00:26:37,982 --> 00:26:43,015 people know that secret, or if a person knows more than one secret, there's no way 509 00:26:43,015 --> 00:26:47,831 of knowing, which, like you say, alters the shelling point of violence, violence 510 00:26:47,831 --> 00:26:52,561 is not as profitable as it used to be, and it will never go back, it will only 511 00:26:52,561 --> 00:26:54,331 be less and less profitable over time. 512 00:26:54,965 --> 00:26:55,885 That's how I see the world. 513 00:26:56,225 --> 00:26:58,695 That's how I think Bitcoin standards going to change things. 514 00:26:58,695 --> 00:26:59,725 I think it's going to take time. 515 00:26:59,735 --> 00:27:05,895 Like you say, over time, I can see a pretty turbulent path that we may 516 00:27:05,935 --> 00:27:07,555 take towards a Bitcoin standard. 517 00:27:07,555 --> 00:27:09,595 I think a lot of people might not be prepared for. 518 00:27:10,125 --> 00:27:13,875 That's personally why I'm never going to be living in a G7 Western nation 519 00:27:13,885 --> 00:27:17,295 state for the next few years until the turbulence kind of blows over. 520 00:27:17,335 --> 00:27:19,015 I won't be returning back to the beach. 521 00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:24,050 Open air prison of Australia, because I can see potentially a scenario unfolding 522 00:27:24,060 --> 00:27:27,830 for public figures like ourselves, where the government comes pretty hard at us. 523 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,950 Again, it's only a hypothetical scenario. 524 00:27:30,090 --> 00:27:31,630 There's lots of possibilities. 525 00:27:31,630 --> 00:27:33,440 Nobody knows how the future is going to play out. 526 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,900 But again, I do agree with you there, Knut. 527 00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:39,696 I think over time, violence is going Bitcoin standard. 528 00:27:40,246 --> 00:27:45,616 Yeah, so there are a lot of people that argue for a slow transition into a Bitcoin 529 00:27:45,626 --> 00:27:51,350 standard because of this turbulence that might arise, but I think that's a case 530 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:57,680 to be made for a really, really rapid Bitcoin adoption phase since All it does 531 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,730 is remove violence from the equation. 532 00:28:00,740 --> 00:28:04,850 The thing that people leave out of that is that they're being 533 00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:06,840 violated against right now. 534 00:28:06,930 --> 00:28:08,560 People are stealing their stuff. 535 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,200 They are being threatened. 536 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,270 There's a threat of violence to each and everyone's head. 537 00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:16,993 If you're paying taxes, well, you can argue for and against. 538 00:28:17,298 --> 00:28:22,541 Taxes, I guess, on some level, I think, that you can deductively reason yourself 539 00:28:22,541 --> 00:28:27,861 to that taxes are always a net negative, but especially with inflation, which 540 00:28:27,861 --> 00:28:33,331 is, it's hard to argue for inflation in any shape or form once you realize 541 00:28:33,431 --> 00:28:37,411 that it's just theft and it's just counterfeiting and it's nothing but that. 542 00:28:37,901 --> 00:28:40,091 But, but that's what Bitcoin removes. 543 00:28:40,201 --> 00:28:45,265 So to me, removing violence and adopting Bitcoin are literally 544 00:28:45,265 --> 00:28:46,375 two sides of the same coin. 545 00:28:46,385 --> 00:28:48,045 They're the exact same phenomenon. 546 00:28:48,865 --> 00:28:52,101 Yeah, and I, I'm, I'm a fan of that thesis, Knut. 547 00:28:52,171 --> 00:28:55,051 I think if you rip the bandaid off, I, I'm actually one of 548 00:28:55,051 --> 00:28:56,731 the people who agree with you. 549 00:28:56,731 --> 00:29:01,001 And I actually think it probably is going to be better if we transition to 550 00:29:01,031 --> 00:29:03,461 Bitcoin really rapidly and really quickly. 551 00:29:03,721 --> 00:29:08,171 For, for years there, I used to say, look, I think Bitcoin's going to be adopted 552 00:29:08,171 --> 00:29:11,891 really rapidly and really quickly, but I don't want it to happen like that 553 00:29:11,891 --> 00:29:13,591 because it's going to be very turbulent. 554 00:29:13,701 --> 00:29:17,251 Could be very messy, could be very violent, but maybe in the past 12 555 00:29:17,281 --> 00:29:20,271 months, I've shifted my thinking a little bit surrounding that and 556 00:29:20,301 --> 00:29:23,581 kind of come to the conclusion after listening to your thoughts for a while. 557 00:29:23,821 --> 00:29:25,511 that It does make a little bit more sense. 558 00:29:25,811 --> 00:29:29,951 Why don't we just rip the bandaid off and transition to a world where it's 559 00:29:30,261 --> 00:29:34,221 far harder to lie to people and it's far harder to steal someone's wealth. 560 00:29:34,571 --> 00:29:35,271 Makes a lot of sense. 561 00:29:36,086 --> 00:29:38,096 Okay, we have some big news. 562 00:29:38,466 --> 00:29:40,706 We have a new lead sponsor, AmberApp. 563 00:29:41,546 --> 00:29:44,146 They're the number one exchange in the Southern Hemisphere. 564 00:29:44,456 --> 00:29:47,356 They're rated for the best customer service around and 565 00:29:47,376 --> 00:29:49,096 their global launch is coming. 566 00:29:49,766 --> 00:29:54,276 But the reason we're partnering with AmberApp is because of the people. 567 00:29:54,806 --> 00:29:57,916 If you haven't listened to our episode with Izzy, CEO of AmberApp, 568 00:29:57,976 --> 00:29:59,776 you really should go check it out. 569 00:30:00,466 --> 00:30:04,356 You'll see why it made perfect sense to partner with Izzy and AmberApp. 570 00:30:04,726 --> 00:30:05,196 That's it. 571 00:30:05,416 --> 00:30:07,996 All I'll say for now, you really have to check it out for yourself. 572 00:30:08,606 --> 00:30:11,646 They have loads of great features coming that we're excited to share 573 00:30:11,646 --> 00:30:15,016 with you when the time comes, but for now, just check out the episode, 574 00:30:15,016 --> 00:30:16,406 check out their website, Ampr. 575 00:30:16,406 --> 00:30:16,686 app. 576 00:30:17,196 --> 00:30:20,083 You can see for yourself, why we're thrilled to bring Ampr. 577 00:30:20,083 --> 00:30:22,023 app on as our lead sponsor and partner. 578 00:30:22,453 --> 00:30:23,193 So go check it out. 579 00:30:23,933 --> 00:30:25,501 Next up WasabiWallet. 580 00:30:25,741 --> 00:30:29,191 The privacy by default, open source, non custodial Bitcoin 581 00:30:29,191 --> 00:30:30,901 wallet with CoinJoin built in. 582 00:30:31,481 --> 00:30:35,471 It's the easy to use, comprehensive, affordable way to make your coins private. 583 00:30:36,036 --> 00:30:39,046 And the best part is, they've been making huge improvements to the app. 584 00:30:39,356 --> 00:30:42,306 They're really focusing on the user experience, adding advanced 585 00:30:42,416 --> 00:30:44,966 features for power users, they just keep getting better. 586 00:30:45,486 --> 00:30:48,966 You send your coins to your Wasabi wallet, and they get combined with loads of 587 00:30:48,966 --> 00:30:53,086 other coins using the Wabi Sabi protocol, so they're private on the other end. 588 00:30:53,626 --> 00:30:57,136 Your tracks are covered so you can work on expanding your Freedom Footprint 589 00:30:57,286 --> 00:30:58,966 without worrying about your privacy. 590 00:30:59,846 --> 00:31:00,756 So, check out wasabiwallet. 591 00:31:00,756 --> 00:31:03,926 io and download Wasabi today. 592 00:31:04,621 --> 00:31:07,721 Luke, do you have any, do you have any, anything on your mind? 593 00:31:07,931 --> 00:31:10,521 I, I see you're thinking something there. 594 00:31:11,471 --> 00:31:11,741 Yeah. 595 00:31:11,741 --> 00:31:14,261 Well, I mean, this has been a whole, whole good vein, and 596 00:31:14,261 --> 00:31:15,371 I think I'd like to tie this 597 00:31:15,591 --> 00:31:16,091 Oh, sorry. 598 00:31:16,101 --> 00:31:16,701 Danger. 599 00:31:16,801 --> 00:31:17,341 Danger. 600 00:31:18,271 --> 00:31:18,571 Thanks. 601 00:31:18,571 --> 00:31:18,721 K. 602 00:31:19,201 --> 00:31:22,231 I think I'd like to, I'd like to pull this into a little bit of, uh, 603 00:31:22,231 --> 00:31:28,816 a little bit of what you are doing in the Bitcoin scene community. 604 00:31:29,146 --> 00:31:32,771 You have your YouTube, channel and what are you trying to do with that? 605 00:31:32,771 --> 00:31:36,241 What are you trying to, accomplish, to advance Bitcoin? 606 00:31:37,086 --> 00:31:39,416 Yes, I personally have a couple of different YouTube 607 00:31:39,416 --> 00:31:40,616 channels that I make videos for. 608 00:31:40,616 --> 00:31:43,846 I've got a personal one, but then I also make videos for Coinbeast. 609 00:31:44,126 --> 00:31:47,946 Uh, so we have a YouTube channel called Money Matters and we just 610 00:31:47,946 --> 00:31:49,546 make Bitcoin only education. 611 00:31:49,876 --> 00:31:54,686 Um, and I also, uh, kind of train other Bitcoiners and other Bitcoin 612 00:31:54,686 --> 00:31:56,576 YouTubers, uh, to how to kind of... 613 00:31:56,801 --> 00:31:59,441 Hack virality in their content. 614 00:31:59,551 --> 00:32:03,981 So, uh, I also kind of, help YouTubers grow their audience so that 615 00:32:03,981 --> 00:32:05,361 they can orange pill more people. 616 00:32:05,401 --> 00:32:08,331 Cause that's my mission at the end of the day, orange pill more people. 617 00:32:08,361 --> 00:32:12,561 And I think if we are going to actually reach some sort of hyperbitcoinization, 618 00:32:12,721 --> 00:32:19,361 we actually sadly do need to interact with these platforms normies are. 619 00:32:19,711 --> 00:32:22,771 Uh, we can shout all we want on Twitter, but it's pretty simple. 620 00:32:22,781 --> 00:32:24,851 Most of my normie friends aren't on Twitter. 621 00:32:25,161 --> 00:32:27,111 They're on YouTube, they're on Instagram. 622 00:32:27,331 --> 00:32:31,631 So my mission is to try to make some easily digestible, Bitcoin only content 623 00:32:31,631 --> 00:32:33,751 over on YouTube that catches the masses. 624 00:32:34,021 --> 00:32:36,401 Sometimes that involves clickbaiting a little bit. 625 00:32:36,681 --> 00:32:40,421 And sometimes if you can clickbait a lot of new people, you can actually 626 00:32:40,421 --> 00:32:44,261 deliver them an orange pill, uh, that's kind of wrapped up in some clickbait, 627 00:32:44,681 --> 00:32:48,111 you know, crypto scammery that's on YouTube because when I was learning 628 00:32:48,141 --> 00:32:52,511 about Bitcoin, I primarily went to YouTube in 2018 and 2019, and that's 629 00:32:52,511 --> 00:32:56,481 where I got scammed because there was no Bitcoin only content on there. 630 00:32:56,741 --> 00:32:57,031 Okay. 631 00:32:57,031 --> 00:33:00,971 I learned a little bit from Max and Andreas, but everything else, it was just 632 00:33:01,021 --> 00:33:04,051 crypto trading, all of this other trash. 633 00:33:04,101 --> 00:33:06,991 Um, so that's my mission, just trying to orange pill the world. 634 00:33:06,991 --> 00:33:10,241 And I think, , what I am doing right now is probably the closest. 635 00:33:11,011 --> 00:33:12,681 I'm trying to doing the most that I can. 636 00:33:12,691 --> 00:33:14,791 I've nearly published my first book. 637 00:33:14,811 --> 00:33:18,101 Um, and I'm focusing pretty heavily on YouTube and helping 638 00:33:18,111 --> 00:33:19,441 other people master YouTube. 639 00:33:19,964 --> 00:33:20,384 Great. 640 00:33:20,444 --> 00:33:22,664 And did you say coin based? 641 00:33:22,959 --> 00:33:23,159 Or 642 00:33:23,354 --> 00:33:23,784 Yeah. 643 00:33:24,709 --> 00:33:25,019 Coinbase. 644 00:33:25,049 --> 00:33:25,339 Coinbase. 645 00:33:26,399 --> 00:33:27,689 Yeah, that sounds way better. 646 00:33:28,594 --> 00:33:29,284 A lot better. 647 00:33:29,749 --> 00:33:32,649 You wouldn't touch Coinbase with a 21 foot pole, I guess. 648 00:33:33,554 --> 00:33:34,244 Definitely not. 649 00:33:35,374 --> 00:33:38,674 It's funny, all of my, editing software can never pick up my strong accent. 650 00:33:38,674 --> 00:33:42,794 So a lot of the times when I say coin beast, the little caption is coin base. 651 00:33:43,334 --> 00:33:44,674 Uh, yeah, it's a, it's a struggle. 652 00:33:45,176 --> 00:33:47,666 So, so what does Coinbase do? 653 00:33:48,511 --> 00:33:51,541 No, you know, This is the, this is the problem, isn't it? 654 00:33:51,661 --> 00:33:56,371 Uh, I think it's, you're saying beast as in like a, like a grrr, a 655 00:33:56,676 --> 00:33:57,116 There you go, 656 00:33:57,306 --> 00:33:57,766 TLDR? 657 00:33:57,816 --> 00:33:58,326 Coinbeast! 658 00:33:58,566 --> 00:34:04,096 Alright, alright, yeah, yeah, my algorithm didn't detect your dialect there properly. 659 00:34:05,461 --> 00:34:07,381 So what does CoinBeast do? 660 00:34:08,206 --> 00:34:11,796 So we're a Bitcoin only educational company and we connect 661 00:34:11,796 --> 00:34:13,846 new people to Bitcoin pros. 662 00:34:13,996 --> 00:34:17,626 So if someone wants to set up a sophisticated mining operation, we connect 663 00:34:17,626 --> 00:34:21,986 them with a video call with people like Adam O Denverbitcoin Um, if somebody wants 664 00:34:21,986 --> 00:34:25,256 to take self custody of their Bitcoin, we connect them to a Bitcoin pro who's 665 00:34:25,256 --> 00:34:28,656 going to help them custody their Bitcoin and get their Bitcoin off exchanges. 666 00:34:28,766 --> 00:34:32,479 We do that and we also spread Bitcoin only educational, content 667 00:34:32,489 --> 00:34:34,089 on Twitter and on YouTube. 668 00:34:34,704 --> 00:34:39,677 So if someone comes and asks for, dad jokes and philosophy, uh, 669 00:34:40,807 --> 00:34:41,977 rants, where do you send them? 670 00:34:42,812 --> 00:34:43,222 We got it. 671 00:34:43,222 --> 00:34:44,872 Cause we could, we should send them to you, Knut. 672 00:34:44,982 --> 00:34:47,822 We need to hook you up as a, Bitcoin pro. 673 00:34:47,972 --> 00:34:48,502 We should. 674 00:34:50,737 --> 00:34:51,057 Yeah. 675 00:34:51,097 --> 00:34:52,697 Uh, dad jokes as a service. 676 00:34:53,121 --> 00:34:56,211 Knut thinks that other people also enjoy the things that he finds 677 00:34:56,211 --> 00:34:58,341 funny and that's pretty good because 678 00:34:58,411 --> 00:34:59,581 yeah, that's funny to me. 679 00:34:59,871 --> 00:35:00,371 Yeah. 680 00:35:01,296 --> 00:35:02,096 And that's why I'm here. 681 00:35:02,136 --> 00:35:02,996 I'm here for the dad jokes. 682 00:35:03,781 --> 00:35:04,251 perfect. 683 00:35:04,301 --> 00:35:04,581 right. 684 00:35:05,121 --> 00:35:09,444 I have a joke, uh, about, construction, but it isn't done yet. 685 00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:10,469 I mean, 686 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:11,669 Oh, hey, there you go. 687 00:35:11,729 --> 00:35:12,159 Uh, yeah. 688 00:35:13,159 --> 00:35:13,709 You got me. 689 00:35:13,934 --> 00:35:17,824 Well, well, so, so can you tell us a little bit more about, the, 690 00:35:17,854 --> 00:35:23,374 the whole reaching out to more people thing, we're kind of in the 691 00:35:23,374 --> 00:35:25,994 business of deepening conviction. 692 00:35:25,994 --> 00:35:31,176 We've, we've been talking about this A little bit lately that the Freedom 693 00:35:31,176 --> 00:35:37,556 Footprint show isn't exactly the best thing for a new person to come find 694 00:35:37,596 --> 00:35:40,016 where we're a little on the toxic side. 695 00:35:40,276 --> 00:35:41,086 I saw you. 696 00:35:41,106 --> 00:35:44,866 You were avoiding swearing earlier as well. 697 00:35:45,246 --> 00:35:46,096 Um, and... 698 00:35:46,756 --> 00:35:51,556 Are these things that, that turn people off on YouTube or 699 00:35:51,556 --> 00:35:53,086 that YouTube deprioritizes? 700 00:35:53,126 --> 00:35:56,416 Like, does that actually stop us from growing even though we're 701 00:35:56,606 --> 00:36:01,909 kind of finding our niche in the, uh, toxic Bitcoin maxi community? 702 00:36:02,382 --> 00:36:03,922 I, I'm not a hundred percent sure. 703 00:36:03,982 --> 00:36:07,742 I've seen some people, some big YouTubers claim that using the F 704 00:36:07,762 --> 00:36:11,982 bomb multiple times, uh, it's going to affect your monetization, but it 705 00:36:11,982 --> 00:36:14,342 shouldn't actually affect your virality. 706 00:36:14,632 --> 00:36:17,422 this is like something, you see a lot of people repeat. 707 00:36:17,432 --> 00:36:19,282 A lot of people say I'm shadow banned on YouTube. 708 00:36:19,282 --> 00:36:21,982 I'm shadow banned on YouTube because they think that, you know, 709 00:36:22,022 --> 00:36:23,372 the algorithm is squashing them. 710 00:36:23,372 --> 00:36:25,072 And it's just the fact that it makes shit content. 711 00:36:25,432 --> 00:36:27,082 Yeah, you're not very popular. 712 00:36:27,082 --> 00:36:28,112 That's, that's the case. 713 00:36:28,112 --> 00:36:28,792 You're not shadow. 714 00:36:28,802 --> 00:36:29,892 You're not shadow band. 715 00:36:29,892 --> 00:36:30,572 You're boring. 716 00:36:31,167 --> 00:36:32,357 yeah, I was one of them. 717 00:36:32,357 --> 00:36:34,767 I used to think my channel was shadowbanned when I started it, but 718 00:36:34,777 --> 00:36:39,347 the fact was I just made shit titles, shit thumbnails, and I needed to, uh, 719 00:36:39,377 --> 00:36:42,694 get, better with what I said, so I, but I think, think I prefer to play 720 00:36:42,704 --> 00:36:46,067 it safe, uh, on some of my channels, on my personal channel, I let it fly, 721 00:36:46,147 --> 00:36:50,007 um, and I've dropped many F bombs in a video and it does well, so I don't 722 00:36:50,007 --> 00:36:54,347 think F bombs affects you unless you, uh, monetize in your YouTube channel. 723 00:36:55,062 --> 00:36:57,676 Yeah, Me and Luke, we talk about this all the time. 724 00:36:57,676 --> 00:37:00,466 What we're actually trying to achieve with this thing and what 725 00:37:00,466 --> 00:37:01,686 we're trying to do and like. 726 00:37:02,061 --> 00:37:05,481 I mean, for the most part, why we started it and that's still the core is just 727 00:37:05,481 --> 00:37:09,021 that we want to have conversations with other Bitcoiners because we love having 728 00:37:09,021 --> 00:37:10,491 conversations with other Bitcoiners. 729 00:37:10,521 --> 00:37:12,921 It's our favorite thing to do in the world. 730 00:37:13,337 --> 00:37:16,851 But also like, what kind of audience are we doing this 731 00:37:16,851 --> 00:37:18,981 for and who are our listeners? 732 00:37:19,031 --> 00:37:23,111 Like, it's, it's kind of hard to, to get a grasp of those things. 733 00:37:23,151 --> 00:37:27,694 And, is like a computer game in a sense, there are different levers to 734 00:37:27,694 --> 00:37:31,214 pull and there are different things to try, but I think at the core of. 735 00:37:31,532 --> 00:37:35,262 Our idea of this is to get quality listeners rather than quantity listeners. 736 00:37:35,262 --> 00:37:39,532 We like to align with the Bitcoin ethos and prioritize quality over quantity. 737 00:37:39,532 --> 00:37:41,082 That's, that's like the main goal. 738 00:37:41,742 --> 00:37:42,652 And that's mine as well. 739 00:37:42,809 --> 00:37:47,799 my, my thinking surrounding it, is to get the quality listeners is you kind 740 00:37:47,799 --> 00:37:52,329 of have to play the YouTube algorithm, the YouTube game, uh, to actually cast 741 00:37:52,329 --> 00:37:54,289 your net out there to find the quality. 742 00:37:54,289 --> 00:37:58,269 Cause I believe there are so many quality hardcore Bitcoiners around the 743 00:37:58,269 --> 00:38:00,249 world who are simply not Bitcoiners yet. 744 00:38:00,329 --> 00:38:04,799 And I think the number one touch point that many people are going to 745 00:38:04,859 --> 00:38:08,479 touch to kind of discover what Bitcoin is, it's number go up technology. 746 00:38:08,681 --> 00:38:11,971 and I think just to answer one of your earlier questions surrounding 747 00:38:12,031 --> 00:38:16,611 toxicity and, you know, should we be toxic if we are trying to welcome new 748 00:38:16,641 --> 00:38:20,251 people to Bitcoin or appeal to newer people who are outside of Bitcoin? 749 00:38:20,571 --> 00:38:24,771 I actually roll with yes, I think it's actually a good thing to be toxic, be more 750 00:38:24,771 --> 00:38:29,621 real, uh, don't worry about the, you know, the swear bombs, because I think people 751 00:38:30,011 --> 00:38:35,411 They're so sick of this, nice corporate lie that they used to from the government. 752 00:38:35,411 --> 00:38:38,221 They're looking for alternative viewpoints surrounding the world. 753 00:38:38,261 --> 00:38:42,071 So I think if you're real and you're authentic, um, on YouTube, I think people 754 00:38:42,071 --> 00:38:43,551 are going to relate to you a lot more. 755 00:38:43,661 --> 00:38:45,011 that's how I go about it. 756 00:38:45,011 --> 00:38:48,624 And that's kind of how I, tell my clients they should also go about it. 757 00:38:48,624 --> 00:38:51,204 You know, don't worry about being very corporate and very nice 758 00:38:51,204 --> 00:38:52,364 because people are sick of it. 759 00:38:53,169 --> 00:38:59,019 this is so true that some wise man said, I don't remember who, but someone said, 760 00:38:59,062 --> 00:39:01,052 honesty is the currency of the future. 761 00:39:01,469 --> 00:39:06,179 that struck a chord with me because like, yes, Bitcoin is honesty. 762 00:39:06,189 --> 00:39:07,459 That's exactly what it is. 763 00:39:07,729 --> 00:39:09,210 But there's more to it. 764 00:39:09,412 --> 00:39:12,302 that's one of the superpowers that Bitcoin gives you. 765 00:39:12,698 --> 00:39:18,239 Not only in a philosophical sense or a meta sense, but once you know that You're 766 00:39:18,249 --> 00:39:22,699 set for like, if you get over above a certain threshold and you know, your coins 767 00:39:22,699 --> 00:39:27,409 are stored, stored properly, and they're uncensorable, then you know that you'll 768 00:39:27,419 --> 00:39:29,179 have them forever and so on and so forth. 769 00:39:29,509 --> 00:39:33,679 That allows you to be yourself to a much larger extent. 770 00:39:34,206 --> 00:39:36,296 so honesty is the currency of the future. 771 00:39:36,296 --> 00:39:38,376 There, there are so many layers to that. 772 00:39:38,406 --> 00:39:42,899 And I think that's, the people watching, YouTube shows or listening 773 00:39:42,899 --> 00:39:47,209 to pods, they, they appreciate honesty above everything else because like, 774 00:39:47,469 --> 00:39:52,819 why would you listen to anything that markets itself as interesting 775 00:39:52,819 --> 00:39:56,029 when it's not actually interesting, because if it's not honest, it's. 776 00:39:56,294 --> 00:39:58,164 It's not interesting by default. 777 00:39:58,384 --> 00:40:03,034 It can be interesting to see what others think about stuff, but still, 778 00:40:03,401 --> 00:40:04,831 honesty is the only way forward. 779 00:40:04,851 --> 00:40:08,538 And there's nothing easier in the world than dropping all of your 780 00:40:09,178 --> 00:40:14,018 previous fiat masks that you were wearing and just be yourself and try 781 00:40:14,018 --> 00:40:15,608 to be the best version of yourself. 782 00:40:15,913 --> 00:40:16,463 Possible. 783 00:40:16,586 --> 00:40:18,606 and if you fail, good for you. 784 00:40:18,676 --> 00:40:19,546 You learned something. 785 00:40:19,943 --> 00:40:22,923 that's what we strive for anyway, to, to try to do here. 786 00:40:22,973 --> 00:40:25,303 Learning new things is, it's fun. 787 00:40:25,663 --> 00:40:30,009 Once you allow yourself to, admit that I don't know anything about 788 00:40:30,009 --> 00:40:31,589 this, but I'm going to give it a try. 789 00:40:31,729 --> 00:40:31,889 And. 790 00:40:32,509 --> 00:40:33,429 See where it goes. 791 00:40:33,783 --> 00:40:34,823 That's the best thing ever. 792 00:40:35,713 --> 00:40:36,273 I love that. 793 00:40:36,303 --> 00:40:37,883 Honesty is the future. 794 00:40:37,963 --> 00:40:39,353 I think that's very poetic. 795 00:40:39,353 --> 00:40:43,153 And I think that's, you know, one of the reasons why Bitcoin is the fastest growing 796 00:40:43,153 --> 00:40:45,393 technological invention in history. 797 00:40:45,393 --> 00:40:47,973 It's one of the fastest growing faster than the internet was. 798 00:40:48,273 --> 00:40:51,283 And that's because people are sick of this fiat world where they've been 799 00:40:51,293 --> 00:40:52,803 lied to for the past hundred years. 800 00:40:53,303 --> 00:40:57,123 society has been lied to about the educational system, the healthcare 801 00:40:57,123 --> 00:41:01,553 system, the medical system, and, first and foremost, the monetary system. 802 00:41:01,563 --> 00:41:03,003 People are sick Sick of all of it. 803 00:41:03,013 --> 00:41:06,343 And you're slowly watching, you know, the beginning of what some people 804 00:41:06,343 --> 00:41:08,163 call this, you know, great awakening. 805 00:41:08,163 --> 00:41:11,876 I'm not, fully on board with, a lot of the things that those, that crowd says, 806 00:41:11,876 --> 00:41:15,696 but they're onto something like the world is slowly gravitating towards truth. 807 00:41:15,746 --> 00:41:16,686 And I love that. 808 00:41:16,686 --> 00:41:17,156 What did you say? 809 00:41:17,156 --> 00:41:20,326 Big, uh, the future is truth and Bitcoin is the truth. 810 00:41:20,896 --> 00:41:23,536 Oh, well, honesty is the currency of the future. 811 00:41:23,566 --> 00:41:24,936 And Bitcoin is honesty. 812 00:41:25,234 --> 00:41:26,313 I think that's what I said. 813 00:41:26,624 --> 00:41:27,639 there's so much there. 814 00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:32,209 I mean, we've been lied to sort of implies that there's a liar. 815 00:41:32,539 --> 00:41:36,469 And I, I think that most people are just confused. 816 00:41:36,519 --> 00:41:40,958 Most people in these institutions, most politicians, of course, some of them are 817 00:41:40,958 --> 00:41:46,228 deliberately lying about stuff, obviously, but most of them, most of the people on 818 00:41:46,228 --> 00:41:52,933 the wrong side of the fence, so to speak, are just Ignorant about certain topics and 819 00:41:52,933 --> 00:41:57,786 therefore they push the current narrative forward and they aren't able to, zoom 820 00:41:57,786 --> 00:42:00,456 out of the era that in which they live. 821 00:42:00,546 --> 00:42:05,356 And they think that these are modern times, these are how things are and 822 00:42:05,356 --> 00:42:07,186 this is how things are going to work. 823 00:42:07,186 --> 00:42:11,026 And they don't see themselves on this historical spectrum and don't realize 824 00:42:11,026 --> 00:42:15,166 that every single generation in human history thought that this is now. 825 00:42:15,211 --> 00:42:17,691 Because it was now, it's always now. 826 00:42:18,041 --> 00:42:20,531 And that now is always changing. 827 00:42:20,941 --> 00:42:22,171 It's not static at all. 828 00:42:22,221 --> 00:42:23,181 It's dynamic. 829 00:42:23,281 --> 00:42:28,846 So the interesting thing is where we're going and what direction we're going in. 830 00:42:29,416 --> 00:42:33,988 And I think honesty is the best path forward, of course, and, and, uh, 831 00:42:34,058 --> 00:42:39,308 that if people in government knew about praxeology, for instance, 832 00:42:39,308 --> 00:42:40,488 they wouldn't be in government. 833 00:42:40,508 --> 00:42:45,751 they would be in the private sector and more and more things would move away 834 00:42:45,761 --> 00:42:50,581 from things that provably cannot work. 835 00:42:50,816 --> 00:42:53,776 In the long term, fiat money is the obvious example, but 836 00:42:53,776 --> 00:42:54,896 there are other things as well. 837 00:42:54,926 --> 00:42:59,689 But, fiat money cannot work in the long run because it means more and 838 00:42:59,689 --> 00:43:01,159 more money printing every year. 839 00:43:01,496 --> 00:43:03,666 uh, GDP going up forever is corruption. 840 00:43:03,976 --> 00:43:06,436 Like Greta Thunberg says, it's a fantasy. 841 00:43:07,246 --> 00:43:13,896 It really is perpetual growth measured in GDP is a fantasy. 842 00:43:14,306 --> 00:43:20,776 Perpetual growth in terms of human ingenuity and innovation, that's possible 843 00:43:20,776 --> 00:43:24,376 at least until the sun becomes big and eats us up after 4 million years. 844 00:43:24,376 --> 00:43:28,736 If we haven't found a way to get to another star, that's, 845 00:43:28,916 --> 00:43:30,836 uh, that's not forever. 846 00:43:31,156 --> 00:43:35,231 Few things are, But yeah, I don't really know where I'm going with 847 00:43:35,231 --> 00:43:40,541 this, but I think there's a connection to honesty and something here. 848 00:43:40,591 --> 00:43:45,391 I think the system itself turns people into liars rather than there being a 849 00:43:45,401 --> 00:43:47,471 deliberate conspiracy going on anywhere. 850 00:43:48,316 --> 00:43:51,686 Yeah, I used to be a lot more in the camp. 851 00:43:51,706 --> 00:43:53,956 I was far more heavily in the camp of, there's a they. 852 00:43:54,376 --> 00:43:56,316 It's the World Economic Forum and it's class. 853 00:43:56,366 --> 00:43:58,406 They're the ones controlling the whole world. 854 00:43:58,656 --> 00:44:01,656 That was kind of my view, you know, 2018, 2019. 855 00:44:01,656 --> 00:44:05,089 And, kind of slowly gravitated a little bit and changed my opinion a little bit. 856 00:44:05,089 --> 00:44:07,849 I still do think there are evil people in the world. 857 00:44:08,139 --> 00:44:12,349 Like Klaus and, many of the people who go to some very interesting islands 858 00:44:12,349 --> 00:44:16,849 around the world with Jeffrey, but I think there's just a large incentive system 859 00:44:16,849 --> 00:44:20,709 where people have just been caught up in this fiat incentive system and, they 860 00:44:20,709 --> 00:44:22,579 believe everything they've been told. 861 00:44:22,659 --> 00:44:26,614 And I think it's just going to take time for them to come to the realization that. 862 00:44:26,854 --> 00:44:31,404 No, truth is not what the church and the state is telling you, it is, and you know, 863 00:44:31,464 --> 00:44:35,544 500 years ago when the printing press did separate church and the state, it took 864 00:44:35,544 --> 00:44:39,564 a long time, like it took decades for the truth to finally get out there, and 865 00:44:39,564 --> 00:44:44,004 I think it still might take a little bit of time, uh, in today's internet age, but 866 00:44:44,004 --> 00:44:48,438 I think, you know, uh, with the internet democratizing information and bitcoin, 867 00:44:48,678 --> 00:44:52,658 , democratizing and decentralizing money, I think it could happen very rapidly 868 00:44:52,658 --> 00:44:57,898 that People do jump out of this fiat incentive system, that they've come to 869 00:44:57,918 --> 00:45:00,578 live by and believe in their whole life. 870 00:45:00,608 --> 00:45:03,548 So I'm pretty interested in how things could unfold in the coming years. 871 00:45:04,528 --> 00:45:05,008 Yeah. 872 00:45:05,093 --> 00:45:07,053 Not to say there's no evil people. 873 00:45:07,083 --> 00:45:08,823 Of course, there are evil people. 874 00:45:08,823 --> 00:45:13,779 And the thing is that the systems we've built up, they attract evil people. 875 00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:17,429 if you're evil, and if you're willing to do whatever to get into 876 00:45:17,429 --> 00:45:20,999 positions of power, you probably will end up in a position of power. 877 00:45:20,999 --> 00:45:24,933 And that's how skewed, , how bad the systems are built up. 878 00:45:25,246 --> 00:45:32,886 So it is the rich men north of Richmond, uh, that are maybe not causing the mess, 879 00:45:32,906 --> 00:45:35,966 but making the mess worse every day, 880 00:45:37,014 --> 00:45:37,724 Exactly. 881 00:45:37,764 --> 00:45:39,164 Yeah, that's, that's how I see the world. 882 00:45:39,164 --> 00:45:42,914 And, what a man, Oliver Anthony, he certainly captured the cultural 883 00:45:42,914 --> 00:45:44,704 zeitgeist, with that song recently. 884 00:45:45,089 --> 00:45:46,069 Yeah, yeah. 885 00:45:46,219 --> 00:45:50,183 And some bitcoiners were, uh, Tur, for instance, was one of the first 886 00:45:50,183 --> 00:45:53,363 ones on the ball there, and he really saw the genius of that song. 887 00:45:53,693 --> 00:45:57,023 And I remember I saw it like a day after it was released. 888 00:45:57,491 --> 00:46:02,658 A day after that, I sent him an email, invited him to this show, but, uh, we had 889 00:46:02,658 --> 00:46:05,088 no chance at getting him on at that point. 890 00:46:05,098 --> 00:46:08,088 Maybe, maybe, Oliver, if you hear this, we'd love to have 891 00:46:08,088 --> 00:46:09,738 you on our show and talk music. 892 00:46:10,284 --> 00:46:11,734 Because he got so viral. 893 00:46:11,754 --> 00:46:14,084 So, so everyone tried to reach out to him, of course, 894 00:46:14,724 --> 00:46:17,201 Yeah, I I think that song got tens of millions of views. 895 00:46:17,414 --> 00:46:20,844 absolutely ridiculous, but it kind of shows, way of the times. 896 00:46:20,844 --> 00:46:23,574 It shows you what society is feeling. 897 00:46:23,634 --> 00:46:27,904 We see all of these viral TikTok videos recently where you have soccer moms 898 00:46:27,904 --> 00:46:31,474 in Canada and America literally crying on camera saying they can't afford 899 00:46:31,514 --> 00:46:35,984 things and slow You're having songs from Oliver Anthony start to actually 900 00:46:36,244 --> 00:46:38,754 correctly diagnose the root problem. 901 00:46:38,754 --> 00:46:39,654 It's fiat money. 902 00:46:39,654 --> 00:46:44,094 It's these rich cabal of elites who can, you know, change the rules of 903 00:46:44,094 --> 00:46:47,514 the monetary system whenever they want and print new monetary units. 904 00:46:47,564 --> 00:46:51,134 That's the reason that cost of living is getting ridiculously high. 905 00:46:51,134 --> 00:46:54,344 It's just, we don't quite have those people correctly 906 00:46:54,344 --> 00:46:55,874 identifying the solution yet. 907 00:46:55,894 --> 00:46:56,664 We have some people. 908 00:46:56,894 --> 00:47:00,764 We have people like, Jordan Peterson warming up to Bitcoin and 909 00:47:00,774 --> 00:47:02,474 slowly beginning to talk about it. 910 00:47:02,514 --> 00:47:07,364 We also have other, viral people around the world, like Joe Roken, begin to 911 00:47:07,374 --> 00:47:10,134 mention Bitcoin a little bit, uh, more. 912 00:47:10,184 --> 00:47:13,404 So I think we're really on the tipping point of, society, 913 00:47:13,454 --> 00:47:15,054 saying, okay, this is the problem. 914 00:47:15,134 --> 00:47:16,554 There's something wrong with the money. 915 00:47:16,704 --> 00:47:19,644 And I think we're not far away from people actually correctly 916 00:47:19,664 --> 00:47:21,374 diagnosing the solution. 917 00:47:21,384 --> 00:47:21,959 And it is Bitcoin. 918 00:47:21,959 --> 00:47:22,804 It's so simple. 919 00:47:22,864 --> 00:47:23,579 21 million. 920 00:47:23,971 --> 00:47:24,631 exactly. 921 00:47:24,698 --> 00:47:25,908 yeah, Joe Rogan. 922 00:47:25,908 --> 00:47:29,638 I think he might have been the guy who said current honesty is the currency of 923 00:47:29,638 --> 00:47:34,528 the future, or it's someone talking about Rogan because I think he captured that. 924 00:47:34,538 --> 00:47:37,238 That's why he became so big because he was honest. 925 00:47:37,564 --> 00:47:39,938 he had honest conversations and people wanted that. 926 00:47:40,516 --> 00:47:43,556 There's also other people around the world, you know, uh, like 927 00:47:43,556 --> 00:47:44,966 Russell Brand for example. 928 00:47:45,006 --> 00:47:49,006 Another one who's just, I believe, is speaking the truth and just speaking 929 00:47:49,006 --> 00:47:52,696 about things openly and he's getting attacked left, right, and center. 930 00:47:52,746 --> 00:47:54,496 He's got millions of subscribers on YouTube. 931 00:47:55,591 --> 00:47:59,991 I think though that there's a, and Russell Brand may or may not be an 932 00:47:59,991 --> 00:48:06,070 example of this, but I think, People play different games and a lot of content 933 00:48:06,070 --> 00:48:11,496 creators, they get addicted to their success because like, it's overwhelming. 934 00:48:11,506 --> 00:48:17,036 If you manage to grow big in a short amount of time and, you get 935 00:48:17,036 --> 00:48:20,526 all sorts of perks, people start to treat you differently and you get all 936 00:48:20,526 --> 00:48:22,976 sorts of offers from here and there. 937 00:48:23,306 --> 00:48:24,876 So, in a way this. 938 00:48:25,776 --> 00:48:31,323 Race for likes and, and retweets and subscribers and stuff, it becomes a, uh, 939 00:48:31,493 --> 00:48:39,373 an incentive structure that may not have honesty as its, uh, biggest driving force 940 00:48:39,383 --> 00:48:44,633 in the, for a lot of these YouTubers, because they, they value their, the power 941 00:48:44,633 --> 00:48:47,513 that comes with being recognized so high. 942 00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:49,080 this is a thing. 943 00:48:49,405 --> 00:48:54,771 That may or may not happen, but like, when Bitcoin, 10Xs, which 944 00:48:54,781 --> 00:49:00,265 it does at some point, we 10X too, at least in all probability. 945 00:49:00,485 --> 00:49:02,115 So all the Bitcoiners will be. 946 00:49:02,465 --> 00:49:07,768 Ten times as more recognized and that comes with, upsides and 947 00:49:07,778 --> 00:49:11,851 downsides, if you have a hundred thousand followers, like statistics 948 00:49:11,851 --> 00:49:15,371 can tell you how big a percentage of those followers are psychopaths. 949 00:49:15,421 --> 00:49:18,601 Like there's, there's upsides and downsides to that. 950 00:49:19,081 --> 00:49:22,791 And I, I think as, as public Bitcoin is when we need to 951 00:49:22,801 --> 00:49:24,601 be prepared for what a, uh. 952 00:49:24,916 --> 00:49:30,250 A big Heinz Ketchup moment would do it to us and especially to 953 00:49:30,250 --> 00:49:33,770 our psyches and to our egos and not let that get to our heads. 954 00:49:34,544 --> 00:49:38,743 Bitcoin changes you more than you change, can change it as the saying goes. 955 00:49:38,783 --> 00:49:43,020 And, uh, It's mostly a change for the better, but attention 956 00:49:43,020 --> 00:49:46,780 changes you too, and that might not always be a change for the better. 957 00:49:47,070 --> 00:49:48,310 do you have any thoughts around that? 958 00:49:49,070 --> 00:49:50,430 I have many different thoughts. 959 00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,940 Uh, the first one, obviously being like, you're seeing this on YouTube. 960 00:49:54,270 --> 00:49:57,480 Like if I record a video tomorrow saying Bitcoin's going to a hundred 961 00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:01,090 million dollars and here's why that's going to get, you know, 10, 000 views. 962 00:50:01,170 --> 00:50:04,200 But if I do a video tomorrow saying, uh, this is why the 963 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:05,730 lightning network is a revolution. 964 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,365 It's probably going to get 500 views. 965 00:50:07,365 --> 00:50:09,190 It's going to get 20 times less views. 966 00:50:09,570 --> 00:50:12,740 And it is very difficult to try to balance the, the kind 967 00:50:12,740 --> 00:50:14,110 of content that you are making. 968 00:50:14,355 --> 00:50:17,775 Purely as a content creator with the fiat incentives that we do 969 00:50:17,825 --> 00:50:19,895 have in front of us at the moment. 970 00:50:19,915 --> 00:50:24,435 And it's very difficult to try to use a little bit of curiosity and clickbait in 971 00:50:24,435 --> 00:50:28,985 our titles, but also deliver that Bitcoin message alongside the ridiculous clickbait 972 00:50:29,005 --> 00:50:30,085 that's going to get all the views. 973 00:50:30,085 --> 00:50:32,938 I think that's something that a lot of Bitcoin companies can 974 00:50:32,968 --> 00:50:35,038 certainly take advantage of more. 975 00:50:35,038 --> 00:50:37,888 But when you're kind of talking about the incentives and how it changes 976 00:50:37,888 --> 00:50:41,568 you personally, I think you've kind of got two diametrically opposing. 977 00:50:41,753 --> 00:50:44,173 Social media platforms battling it out right now. 978 00:50:44,203 --> 00:50:48,443 You have X or Twitter and you have Nostr and, like you say, Knut, 979 00:50:48,493 --> 00:50:51,443 I think the incentives have been very skewed on Twitter right now. 980 00:50:51,723 --> 00:50:57,553 People, being able to monetize their accounts and, uh, for a laugh, I go and 981 00:50:57,553 --> 00:50:59,153 listen to some of these, you know, large. 982 00:51:02,988 --> 00:51:05,841 And all of these big guys of a million, followers, they're saying, 983 00:51:05,841 --> 00:51:07,211 yeah, yeah, it's really easy. 984 00:51:07,411 --> 00:51:10,991 You just need to comment in the replies of all of my, uh, Twitter posts. 985 00:51:11,481 --> 00:51:14,621 And if you pay me money and you subscribe to me, I'm going to reply to you. 986 00:51:14,621 --> 00:51:17,331 So you get lots of engagement and you reach your 5 million 987 00:51:17,331 --> 00:51:18,401 impressions in three months. 988 00:51:18,671 --> 00:51:20,461 And that's just incentivizing trash. 989 00:51:20,601 --> 00:51:24,951 That's incentivizing people just becoming a reply guy, just replying trash in 990 00:51:24,951 --> 00:51:26,451 the comments of their favorite person. 991 00:51:26,461 --> 00:51:28,671 Whereas like on Nostr, provide value. 992 00:51:28,731 --> 00:51:34,071 There's nobody who controls Nostr who can pay you out, uh, for trashy, trashy 993 00:51:34,071 --> 00:51:38,301 comments and, uh, weak, uh, flaccid engagement that's not actually real. 994 00:51:38,301 --> 00:51:39,341 You provide value. 995 00:51:39,361 --> 00:51:42,461 If someone likes your shit, they're gonna zap you for it over the Lightning Network. 996 00:51:43,181 --> 00:51:48,601 Yeah, we've had, some debates about Nostr, and we're not entirely convinced 997 00:51:48,611 --> 00:51:53,581 that it won't run into the same problems as the old incentive structures. 998 00:51:53,611 --> 00:51:57,258 Because, uh, attention is still valuable to content creators, 999 00:51:57,388 --> 00:51:58,898 and people will crave attention. 1000 00:51:59,145 --> 00:52:02,075 that's why people want to be celebrities there's a difference 1001 00:52:02,265 --> 00:52:06,035 between wanting to be a celebrity and wanting to be recognized for sure. 1002 00:52:06,466 --> 00:52:11,476 Of course, you want your work to be appreciated by others, but some people 1003 00:52:11,486 --> 00:52:15,926 just want the attention for attention's sake, and that's a different game. 1004 00:52:16,243 --> 00:52:20,133 and there's, there are no real easy solutions to that, but when I hear that 1005 00:52:20,153 --> 00:52:24,013 about the Twitter space that's just talked about, it reminds me of the Wolf of Wall 1006 00:52:24,013 --> 00:52:28,923 Street and the last scene where, where, where, uh, sell me this pen and, and, 1007 00:52:28,963 --> 00:52:36,323 and this obvious asshole still gets, A ton of people to, a ton of people still 1008 00:52:36,333 --> 00:52:41,273 want to be like him because he scammed a lot of people and he was a total dick, 1009 00:52:41,783 --> 00:52:44,893 but they want to know how to be a total dick because he made a lot of money. 1010 00:52:46,223 --> 00:52:51,393 Uh, it's, yeah, but we, for our show, we talk about stuff like this a lot, me and 1011 00:52:51,523 --> 00:52:55,916 Danger here and we, we would never like. 1012 00:52:56,511 --> 00:53:00,731 Seriously interview a shit coiner and like, apologize for what they 1013 00:53:00,731 --> 00:53:05,781 do, or if we ever have a shit coiner on, it will be, ruthless. 1014 00:53:06,898 --> 00:53:11,575 so, so, the thing is, the price for, for everything else is your 1015 00:53:11,595 --> 00:53:14,075 integrity and your reputation is. 1016 00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:15,370 is always on the line. 1017 00:53:15,370 --> 00:53:17,943 And the way I see it, you can only sell your soul once. 1018 00:53:18,423 --> 00:53:21,753 If you take the bag of shit coins and run away, uh, like, and if you do 1019 00:53:21,753 --> 00:53:29,280 something dodgy, that dodgy move was probably costlier to you in a, in a 1020 00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:33,930 strict praxeological sense, uh, than, than the, the money you got for it. 1021 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:38,041 So, you won't see me doing ads for some shampoo anytime 1022 00:53:38,041 --> 00:53:40,351 soon if I, even if I do 10 x. 1023 00:53:40,351 --> 00:53:46,681 Like, uh, I, I don't know what the correct analogy is, uh, here, but money has the 1024 00:53:46,681 --> 00:53:48,331 power to change people's incentives. 1025 00:53:48,331 --> 00:53:54,431 So, so I think honest money is a prerequisite for every, uh, everything 1026 00:53:54,431 --> 00:53:56,091 else in the honesty business. 1027 00:53:56,996 --> 00:53:58,046 Yeah, a hundred percent. 1028 00:53:58,046 --> 00:54:01,246 It's very difficult to say no to, you know, large paychecks 1029 00:54:01,246 --> 00:54:02,466 from these shitcoin companies. 1030 00:54:02,486 --> 00:54:05,326 Like I've been approached by a few of them and they've offered me pretty 1031 00:54:05,346 --> 00:54:08,606 significant amounts of money to grow their YouTube channel or grow their Twitter. 1032 00:54:08,606 --> 00:54:11,936 And, uh, I'm the same, I find myself in the same boat as you, Knut. 1033 00:54:11,936 --> 00:54:14,060 There's no amount of money, that, you know, is going to be put in 1034 00:54:14,060 --> 00:54:15,855 front of me that's going to help me. 1035 00:54:15,925 --> 00:54:19,655 Help a scammer or help me help a corrupt shit coiner. 1036 00:54:19,722 --> 00:54:23,811 because I just think it's like you say, it's going to kill your integrity so bad. 1037 00:54:23,811 --> 00:54:26,811 And I just don't believe morally the message they're putting out there. 1038 00:54:26,951 --> 00:54:31,451 but I'm interested, uh, give me the bear case on Nostr, not the bear case, 1039 00:54:31,481 --> 00:54:38,421 but maybe how the incentive system, uh, may not be, or we hope it may be. 1040 00:54:39,270 --> 00:54:44,510 full disclaimer, I don't know enough about Nostr yet , to have a really 1041 00:54:44,510 --> 00:54:48,420 informed opinion on this, but the way, the things I know about Nostr 1042 00:54:48,420 --> 00:54:52,510 is that there is no mention of Satoshis in the actual protocol. 1043 00:54:52,770 --> 00:54:57,270 so, and the word decentralization is being thrown around a lot. 1044 00:54:57,300 --> 00:54:58,430 and I always. 1045 00:54:59,251 --> 00:55:04,211 I always suspect things that throw around the word decentralization, 1046 00:55:04,261 --> 00:55:09,661 because to me, decentralization in Bitcoin is an unfortunate means to a 1047 00:55:09,661 --> 00:55:16,091 greater end, which is sound money, like censorship resistance, all of that stuff. 1048 00:55:17,651 --> 00:55:21,341 Decentralization, it would be way easier if it could be decentralized 1049 00:55:21,341 --> 00:55:25,241 and someone could be trusted, then we would only need one Excel sheet and not 1050 00:55:25,241 --> 00:55:27,611 this entire distributed ledger system. 1051 00:55:28,171 --> 00:55:31,701 So the only reason we need decentralization in Bitcoin , is 1052 00:55:31,761 --> 00:55:34,371 to, allow for all the other awesome stuff that it does. 1053 00:55:34,998 --> 00:55:37,468 I don't really see that in Nostr. 1054 00:55:37,478 --> 00:55:41,598 The Nostr is still going to be, uh, through relays and there will 1055 00:55:41,598 --> 00:55:44,728 be premium relays where you pay for a service and everything. 1056 00:55:45,258 --> 00:55:49,745 But that's sort of the same monetization, uh, structure that is. 1057 00:55:49,910 --> 00:55:51,390 going on in the other big things. 1058 00:55:51,390 --> 00:55:54,780 I don't, I don't really see this not taking the same 1059 00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,210 path as every other internet. 1060 00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:58,550 I know it's a protocol. 1061 00:55:58,550 --> 00:56:04,710 So, but, but if you look at SMTP, for instance, and email providers, they have 1062 00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:11,690 sort of centralized, most people use Gmail or, or whatever, Apple Mail or Microsoft. 1063 00:56:11,690 --> 00:56:15,418 I don't know if there's an Apple Mail, but, I, I have a hard time 1064 00:56:15,418 --> 00:56:18,581 seeing how Noster itself solves that. 1065 00:56:18,821 --> 00:56:24,008 Bitcoin may solve it somehow, but cryptography is not enough. 1066 00:56:24,013 --> 00:56:28,478 I know Giggy is a big Noster fan and he, but he is also the guy that said 1067 00:56:28,478 --> 00:56:31,298 Crisp crypto cryptography is not enough. 1068 00:56:32,603 --> 00:56:36,793 Your identity on Nostr is a cryptographic public key and a private key, right? 1069 00:56:37,513 --> 00:56:42,013 So, what if you fire up a million accounts, or a million key pairs, 1070 00:56:42,593 --> 00:56:50,136 and, uh, you, uh, you send a bunch of sats from 999, 999 of those 1071 00:56:50,136 --> 00:56:52,306 accounts to the millionth account. 1072 00:56:52,836 --> 00:57:00,068 Then most of the algorithms on the relays will, put your Nostr posts high up in 1073 00:57:00,068 --> 00:57:05,188 people's feed, uh, because there's no way of, verifying that the, the key 1074 00:57:05,188 --> 00:57:07,808 pairs are actually not the same person. 1075 00:57:07,838 --> 00:57:12,688 So, so you run into all these bot problems and everything that are already 1076 00:57:12,688 --> 00:57:14,158 in all the other social networks. 1077 00:57:14,608 --> 00:57:18,938 And I, I'm not saying I don't buy it completely because I'm still 1078 00:57:19,298 --> 00:57:21,188 eager to learn more about Nostr. 1079 00:57:22,758 --> 00:57:27,578 But I have a hard time seeing the why it's such a different thing. 1080 00:57:27,771 --> 00:57:30,191 you know, influencers will still influence. 1081 00:57:30,241 --> 00:57:32,975 They will still play the same game as they're playing now. 1082 00:57:32,975 --> 00:57:34,355 They'll just be playing it for sats. 1083 00:57:34,405 --> 00:57:38,245 If anything, that might even give them a bigger incentive to. 1084 00:57:39,025 --> 00:57:43,975 To post stuff that attracts a lot of views and attracts a lot of attention, 1085 00:57:43,985 --> 00:57:48,105 because that will lead directly to them, receiving a lot of sats. 1086 00:57:49,075 --> 00:57:52,755 it a solution or is it just amplifying the problem? 1087 00:57:52,785 --> 00:57:54,675 I'm, I have mixed feelings about this. 1088 00:57:54,675 --> 00:57:55,384 I, I, I don't know. 1089 00:57:55,385 --> 00:57:57,235 I haven't made up my mind yet. 1090 00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,210 You're going to send me down another rabbit hole after today's chat. 1091 00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:02,730 Uh, I really want to explore that more. 1092 00:58:02,730 --> 00:58:03,530 That's very interesting. 1093 00:58:03,630 --> 00:58:08,090 I, I do, if your posts get zapped more on Nostr, does that, is there some sort of 1094 00:58:08,110 --> 00:58:11,300 algo on Nostr where that post gets shown 1095 00:58:11,425 --> 00:58:16,895 that's, well, that's up to each and every, uh, uh, uh, relay, right? 1096 00:58:17,165 --> 00:58:18,105 It's called a relay, right? 1097 00:58:18,431 --> 00:58:20,401 I think it's more like the client can 1098 00:58:20,736 --> 00:58:21,366 Oh, client. 1099 00:58:21,396 --> 00:58:21,636 Yeah. 1100 00:58:21,686 --> 00:58:21,966 Yeah. 1101 00:58:22,636 --> 00:58:22,886 Yeah. 1102 00:58:22,896 --> 00:58:23,086 But 1103 00:58:23,251 --> 00:58:28,461 I mean, you, you can, you can put settings in your client to say, show more popular 1104 00:58:28,461 --> 00:58:31,561 stuff, I think, but it's not really good. 1105 00:58:32,051 --> 00:58:36,111 Uh, I've, I've not had any experience other than that you just show things 1106 00:58:36,111 --> 00:58:38,431 in descending order basically. 1107 00:58:39,036 --> 00:58:44,366 So, so if you flip not your keys, not your coins, that means. 1108 00:58:44,940 --> 00:58:47,850 uh, not your bitcoins, not your information. 1109 00:58:48,100 --> 00:58:49,110 You know what I mean? 1110 00:58:49,340 --> 00:58:53,460 The only information that is actually yours is still Bitcoin. 1111 00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:57,280 that's the only , string of information that you can actually own. 1112 00:58:57,831 --> 00:59:02,478 otherwise, it's still up to the, the, the Nostr clients and the relays and 1113 00:59:02,478 --> 00:59:06,681 stuff to, curate whatever comes from you and to other people's feeds. 1114 00:59:07,191 --> 00:59:08,541 You don't have any say in that. 1115 00:59:08,551 --> 00:59:11,031 So it doesn't really matter if you own your. 1116 00:59:13,261 --> 00:59:18,111 I think there ought to be a bigger debate about the pros and cons of Nostr because 1117 00:59:18,111 --> 00:59:23,121 it's, it's sort of like, oh, Jack Dorsey is on board and he put 50 million into it. 1118 00:59:23,121 --> 00:59:27,441 It must be good because he's a monk now, I'm yet to be convinced. 1119 00:59:27,441 --> 00:59:30,191 I'm not saying I'm against it or anything like that. 1120 00:59:30,191 --> 00:59:30,761 I'm, I'm. 1121 00:59:31,161 --> 00:59:35,571 Eager to learn more and eager to have people try to poke holes in 1122 00:59:35,571 --> 00:59:39,881 my, uh, you know, devil's advocate arguments that I've given to you now. 1123 00:59:40,770 --> 00:59:41,550 I think that's healthy. 1124 00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,414 We need devil's advocates, arguments. 1125 00:59:44,604 --> 00:59:46,664 I saw a really good podcast earlier in the week. 1126 00:59:46,894 --> 00:59:49,604 There's a little bit of a debate between, uh, uh, my buddy, 1127 00:59:49,604 --> 00:59:50,904 George Gammon and Jeff Booth. 1128 00:59:51,324 --> 00:59:52,654 And a lot of people were giving George 1129 00:59:52,809 --> 00:59:53,379 saw that. 1130 00:59:53,554 --> 00:59:54,084 Yeah. 1131 00:59:54,396 --> 00:59:56,166 I, I, I love a devil's advocate. 1132 00:59:56,286 --> 00:59:59,576 I think, I think it's good that people poke holes in all of our arguments. 1133 00:59:59,576 --> 01:00:00,996 I welcome it, but personally, 1134 01:00:01,426 --> 01:00:07,256 And yeah, I, I, um, I gave Jeff a call afterwards and I complimented him on that 1135 01:00:07,486 --> 01:00:10,226 episode because it's, uh, it's so good. 1136 01:00:10,396 --> 01:00:11,866 He's so good in debates. 1137 01:00:12,706 --> 01:00:14,001 Like, uh, he just. 1138 01:00:14,331 --> 01:00:20,671 Takes an attack and, uh, turns it into courtesy and, uh, a counter 1139 01:00:20,671 --> 01:00:21,881 argument on a silver plate. 1140 01:00:21,881 --> 01:00:22,961 And it's just beautiful. 1141 01:00:23,342 --> 01:00:24,182 he's one of a kind, 1142 01:00:24,690 --> 01:00:26,350 He's definitely one of a kind. 1143 01:00:27,194 --> 01:00:31,214 The show is also sponsored by Orange Pill App, the Bitcoin only social network where 1144 01:00:31,214 --> 01:00:32,874 you can stack friends who stack sats. 1145 01:00:33,474 --> 01:00:36,334 You can connect with your favorite Bitcoiners on the app, make local 1146 01:00:36,334 --> 01:00:39,384 connections, and even connect with Bitcoiners around the world. 1147 01:00:39,934 --> 01:00:43,434 You can see what's going on in your area and organize and attend local events. 1148 01:00:43,875 --> 01:00:46,625 I've been to multiple events organized on Orange Pill App and they brought 1149 01:00:46,625 --> 01:00:48,665 Bitcoiners together from all over. 1150 01:00:49,143 --> 01:00:52,353 And now, with group chat, it's easier than ever to stay in touch 1151 01:00:52,353 --> 01:00:53,673 with all your Bitcoin friends. 1152 01:00:54,082 --> 01:00:56,272 The best part is you know it's high signal. 1153 01:00:56,362 --> 01:00:59,352 There's no spam on OrangePillApp because everyone pays to be there. 1154 01:00:59,563 --> 01:01:02,898 So download OrangePillApp on Apple or Android and start building 1155 01:01:02,918 --> 01:01:04,218 your local network of Bitcoiners. 1156 01:01:05,036 --> 01:01:06,636 Next up, The Bitcoin Way. 1157 01:01:07,166 --> 01:01:10,476 Their mission is to onboard, educate, and remove barriers to 1158 01:01:10,476 --> 01:01:12,086 taking self custody of your bitcoin. 1159 01:01:12,636 --> 01:01:16,946 They cover everything from cold wallets to nodes, no KYC bitcoin purchases, 1160 01:01:16,996 --> 01:01:19,426 inheritance planning, payments, and more. 1161 01:01:19,956 --> 01:01:22,766 Whether you're new to bitcoin or you're an experienced bitcoiner looking to 1162 01:01:22,776 --> 01:01:26,646 expand your freedom footprint, Or you know someone who this sounds perfect for? 1163 01:01:27,006 --> 01:01:28,926 The Bitcoin Way has something for you. 1164 01:01:29,566 --> 01:01:33,086 They have a skilled team, well versed in the Bitcoin space, and their goal is to 1165 01:01:33,086 --> 01:01:36,976 make all the complexities of Bitcoin as straightforward as possible for everyone. 1166 01:01:37,536 --> 01:01:40,036 And the best part is you can get started with a free 30 1167 01:01:40,036 --> 01:01:41,216 minute call with their team. 1168 01:01:41,736 --> 01:01:43,276 Go to thebitcoinway. 1169 01:01:43,296 --> 01:01:45,506 com slash contact for more info. 1170 01:01:46,107 --> 01:01:48,007 Our newest sponsor is Geyser. 1171 01:01:48,337 --> 01:01:51,227 They are the portal to the creator economy on Bitcoin. 1172 01:01:51,927 --> 01:01:55,647 On Geyser, creators can monetize their work through their communities 1173 01:01:55,677 --> 01:01:57,297 in a social and engaging way. 1174 01:01:57,677 --> 01:02:00,467 And supporters can send sats to their favorite projects. 1175 01:02:00,914 --> 01:02:04,214 Geyser has also recently integrated with Zapps and Podcasting 2. 1176 01:02:04,214 --> 01:02:04,674 0. 1177 01:02:05,024 --> 01:02:08,574 So every Zapp sent to a Geyser address shows up on the Geyser page. 1178 01:02:09,334 --> 01:02:10,794 We have a Geyser fund ourselves. 1179 01:02:10,804 --> 01:02:12,964 It's the best way to support our show directly with Bitcoin. 1180 01:02:13,974 --> 01:02:17,834 So whether you're a creator or a supporter, check out geyser at geyser. 1181 01:02:17,834 --> 01:02:18,734 fund today. 1182 01:02:19,155 --> 01:02:23,125 Well, I think, hey, I think, I think we're drifting towards maybe the, the end of 1183 01:02:23,145 --> 01:02:29,232 our time here, but Luke, any last words about your, your views on the near term? 1184 01:02:29,232 --> 01:02:32,202 What do you think we can expect in the next few months for Bitcoin? 1185 01:02:32,935 --> 01:02:34,555 Or anything else you want to talk about? 1186 01:02:35,460 --> 01:02:37,030 Anything else I want to talk about? 1187 01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:41,770 I, I think, uh, right now I would not have a clue what's going to happen, uh, 1188 01:02:41,770 --> 01:02:45,440 in Bitcoin, apart from the fact that we got a halving in around 210 days. 1189 01:02:45,850 --> 01:02:48,150 Uh, a lot of people are saying, you know, the halving's. 1190 01:02:48,380 --> 01:02:50,210 Priced in as they do every year. 1191 01:02:50,550 --> 01:02:52,500 I don't think the Harvey's priced in. 1192 01:02:52,530 --> 01:02:53,860 So I expect number go up. 1193 01:02:54,180 --> 01:02:58,090 Uh, I think like if we're looking really near term again, I, I really hate near 1194 01:02:58,090 --> 01:03:01,570 term price predictions, but over the past couple of weeks, it's really interesting, 1195 01:03:01,570 --> 01:03:03,620 the Dixie has been rallying really hard. 1196 01:03:03,650 --> 01:03:07,095 So the U S dollar comparatively is getting stronger than other fiat currencies. 1197 01:03:07,095 --> 01:03:07,360 Normally that decimates Bitcoin. 1198 01:03:09,650 --> 01:03:11,580 Normally, that's a risk off environment. 1199 01:03:11,850 --> 01:03:14,260 Normally, that's when bonds are bid. 1200 01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:18,280 People buy bonds, they sell stocks and other assets like Bitcoin, and they 1201 01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:20,720 buy gold bonds and the Dixie rallies. 1202 01:03:20,970 --> 01:03:21,590 Not this time. 1203 01:03:21,690 --> 01:03:23,690 It was really interesting in the past couple of weeks, Bitcoin's 1204 01:03:23,690 --> 01:03:25,460 actually kind of diverged from gold. 1205 01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:29,100 Bitcoin's been pumping, gold's been dumping as well as every 1206 01:03:29,100 --> 01:03:30,270 other asset class over the past. 1207 01:03:30,535 --> 01:03:31,285 3 4 weeks. 1208 01:03:31,795 --> 01:03:35,745 Uh, so there's a little bit of near term, uh, little bit of near term stuff, but, 1209 01:03:35,785 --> 01:03:37,578 you know, I prefer to zoom out, a lot. 1210 01:03:37,628 --> 01:03:43,852 I, I, I really do think Bitcoin, uh, is, uh, the, digital industrial revolution 2. 1211 01:03:43,852 --> 01:03:43,992 0. 1212 01:03:43,992 --> 01:03:45,532 Um, I think Bitcoin's that big. 1213 01:03:45,627 --> 01:03:49,677 The industrial revolution brought us these wave of five technological 1214 01:03:49,677 --> 01:03:51,237 revolutions every 50 years. 1215 01:03:51,607 --> 01:03:54,417 And I think Bitcoin is like Michael Saylor says, it's the 1216 01:03:54,417 --> 01:03:57,087 portal into the digital universe. 1217 01:03:57,087 --> 01:04:01,457 I really look at Bitcoin on a multi thousand year kind of time horizon. 1218 01:04:01,457 --> 01:04:02,337 I think Bitcoin. 1219 01:04:02,622 --> 01:04:05,702 Is going to create this wave of technological innovation that 1220 01:04:05,712 --> 01:04:07,202 we haven't seen in a long time. 1221 01:04:07,212 --> 01:04:10,782 Like we are living through this great stagnation that people like Peter Thiel 1222 01:04:11,302 --> 01:04:15,962 and Eric Weinstein correctly identify, but they just haven't quite popped their 1223 01:04:15,962 --> 01:04:18,012 finger on what's actually causing that. 1224 01:04:18,012 --> 01:04:19,332 And I think it is Bitcoin. 1225 01:04:19,432 --> 01:04:19,842 I think. 1226 01:04:20,107 --> 01:04:24,647 Bitcoin is going to do all of the things that led to the industrial revolution. 1227 01:04:24,677 --> 01:04:29,237 So what happened and what gave us this wave of 250 years of innovation, it was 1228 01:04:29,247 --> 01:04:33,607 increasing monetary velocity via central banking in the 1600s, whether that be a 1229 01:04:33,607 --> 01:04:35,247 good or a bad thing, that's what happened. 1230 01:04:35,257 --> 01:04:37,207 And that helped our economy thrive. 1231 01:04:37,567 --> 01:04:42,627 Uh, we saw, um, the wave of capitalism and, um, through the declaration 1232 01:04:42,627 --> 01:04:46,377 of independence and the French revolution in the 1770s, we saw all 1233 01:04:46,377 --> 01:04:47,747 of these property rights spring up. 1234 01:04:47,767 --> 01:04:50,007 I don't think it's a coincidence. 1235 01:04:50,137 --> 01:04:53,977 That we saw this wave of, you know, capitalism, democracy is a shit coin. 1236 01:04:54,237 --> 01:04:57,133 but we saw more property rights in the 1770s and that gave 1237 01:04:57,133 --> 01:04:58,233 us all of this innovation. 1238 01:04:58,543 --> 01:05:02,433 And we saw, uh, an enormous increase in the amount of energy we used in the 1600s 1239 01:05:03,053 --> 01:05:05,473 when we found coal as an energy source. 1240 01:05:05,473 --> 01:05:08,963 I think all of those key ingredients led to 250 years of 1241 01:05:08,963 --> 01:05:10,443 prosperity that we have seen. 1242 01:05:10,693 --> 01:05:12,793 And I think Bitcoin is going to do that for the digital age. 1243 01:05:12,853 --> 01:05:16,053 It increases the amount of energy we use and it captures wasted energy. 1244 01:05:16,303 --> 01:05:19,333 Gives property rights to every single person around the world, irrespective 1245 01:05:19,333 --> 01:05:23,303 of where they are or whether they are unbanked, like the 2 billion ish people 1246 01:05:23,303 --> 01:05:24,553 who are unbanked around the world. 1247 01:05:24,893 --> 01:05:27,023 and Bitcoin increases monetary velocity. 1248 01:05:27,053 --> 01:05:29,213 Um, so I, again, always like to zoom out. 1249 01:05:29,483 --> 01:05:31,183 Um, I look at Bitcoin on that kind of. 1250 01:05:31,568 --> 01:05:33,678 how does it increase monitor velocity? 1251 01:05:34,348 --> 01:05:38,688 Well, right now, we have all of this friction, uh, swapping fiat currency 1252 01:05:38,688 --> 01:05:40,598 to fiat currency, and we also have, 1253 01:05:40,608 --> 01:05:41,608 But, but it's. 1254 01:05:41,842 --> 01:05:45,182 devil's advocate argument for that, because it's deflationary. 1255 01:05:45,275 --> 01:05:49,365 and until, uh, until everything divided by 21 million, nothing 1256 01:05:49,365 --> 01:05:50,855 is priced in correctly. 1257 01:05:51,142 --> 01:05:54,832 and when that happens, when people realize that I'm not selling this. 1258 01:05:55,602 --> 01:05:56,062 ever. 1259 01:05:56,202 --> 01:05:57,612 Like, because it's so fucking good. 1260 01:05:57,632 --> 01:06:03,672 Like, at least more and more people will trend towards that, 1261 01:06:04,232 --> 01:06:06,582 then I, Oh, this is awesome. 1262 01:06:06,582 --> 01:06:07,582 I want to spend it all. 1263 01:06:07,812 --> 01:06:09,162 Like, it doesn't matter. 1264 01:06:09,722 --> 01:06:13,822 Uh, people will spend money, use money less and less. 1265 01:06:13,872 --> 01:06:16,722 That's, that's the, the argument I was trying to make before. 1266 01:06:17,273 --> 01:06:22,203 If I, if I try to come up with an example, it would be if 10 really, 1267 01:06:22,203 --> 01:06:26,763 really rich friends decide to have dinner every night, each night, 1268 01:06:27,043 --> 01:06:28,623 one of them will pick up the bill. 1269 01:06:29,463 --> 01:06:31,633 So 10 transactions are made in total. 1270 01:06:31,837 --> 01:06:34,910 if they're nice and wealthy, like all Bitcoiners will be in the future. 1271 01:06:35,270 --> 01:06:41,670 So, and, if 10 poor people decide to eat together every night, each one of them 1272 01:06:41,670 --> 01:06:45,310 will buy their own pack of noodles because they can't afford to pick up the bill. 1273 01:06:45,670 --> 01:06:47,730 So, a hundred transactions happen. 1274 01:06:48,100 --> 01:06:52,580 This might be a bad analogy or whatever, but, but still. 1275 01:06:52,878 --> 01:06:57,128 I do suspect that fewer transactions will happen over time 1276 01:06:57,308 --> 01:06:59,588 in a deflationary environment. 1277 01:06:59,848 --> 01:07:03,048 So the velocity of money is sort of, in my mind, that's sort of a 1278 01:07:03,088 --> 01:07:08,578 Keynesian metric to begin with, and not something to necessarily strive for. 1279 01:07:08,888 --> 01:07:12,878 Micro transactions is a very fiat y thing in my mind. 1280 01:07:13,148 --> 01:07:17,688 Like when you have to pay to go to the bathroom in the central station somewhere, 1281 01:07:18,158 --> 01:07:20,568 uh, and you have to have a coin to... 1282 01:07:20,858 --> 01:07:24,908 To get your cards for the supermarket or whatever, those are all very 1283 01:07:24,908 --> 01:07:26,898 fiat inventions, in my mind. 1284 01:07:26,908 --> 01:07:31,582 And, I see a Bitcoin standard where you pay for something maybe once a year, and 1285 01:07:31,582 --> 01:07:36,022 then there's some sort of subscription model, because that's way, way easier 1286 01:07:36,022 --> 01:07:39,732 for both the customer and the provider or whatever good a service it is. 1287 01:07:40,172 --> 01:07:43,198 So I see, velocity of money going down and not up. 1288 01:07:44,928 --> 01:07:47,378 And now there's a, there's another thought nugget for you. 1289 01:07:48,138 --> 01:07:51,278 I love Thought Nuggets, I, I think I agree with you in a hundred years, 1290 01:07:51,368 --> 01:07:55,458 I think in a hundred years, there'll be less transactions, I think getting 1291 01:07:55,458 --> 01:07:59,538 there, I'm not sure how that's going to unfold, I think I agree though, monetary 1292 01:07:59,538 --> 01:08:04,258 velocity is potentially not the best way to frame it, maybe I should say global 1293 01:08:04,318 --> 01:08:08,658 interconnectedness, a little bit less catchy, but, uh, like I think central 1294 01:08:08,708 --> 01:08:09,268 love it. 1295 01:08:09,508 --> 01:08:10,048 Love it. 1296 01:08:10,723 --> 01:08:14,673 Yeah, like, I think central banking gave the ability for more trade. 1297 01:08:14,843 --> 01:08:18,063 Uh, you can, it's simply, it's a lot easier to send paper receipts to Europe 1298 01:08:18,293 --> 01:08:19,893 than it is to ship a boatload of gold. 1299 01:08:19,903 --> 01:08:22,563 And I think Bitcoin does that for the 1. 1300 01:08:22,693 --> 01:08:24,883 7 billion people who are unbanked around the world. 1301 01:08:25,093 --> 01:08:27,713 All of a sudden they can send value to someone on the other side of 1302 01:08:27,713 --> 01:08:31,173 the world, irrespective of them being in Venezuela or Africa. 1303 01:08:31,458 --> 01:08:32,008 Yeah. 1304 01:08:32,158 --> 01:08:37,468 Uh, I'm just trying to make the argument that just, it's great that it's easier. 1305 01:08:37,558 --> 01:08:39,618 The Lightning Network is fantastic. 1306 01:08:39,628 --> 01:08:44,668 Like it's, it's absolutely awesome to be able to, to accept Lightning 1307 01:08:44,738 --> 01:08:47,588 and to pay with Lightning wherever I'm at the Bitcoin conference. 1308 01:08:47,648 --> 01:08:48,348 I love it. 1309 01:08:48,998 --> 01:08:53,275 having said that though, I suspect that making something easy, it's not. 1310 01:08:53,610 --> 01:08:57,360 necessarily going to increase its usage. 1311 01:08:58,730 --> 01:09:04,850 I mean, it's probably easier to manufacture a horse cart these days than 1312 01:09:04,940 --> 01:09:11,843 in the 19th century, but still, there's Less demand for them, also bad analogy, 1313 01:09:12,093 --> 01:09:18,903 but I think as we move into the future, we will see, we'll see people figure 1314 01:09:18,903 --> 01:09:24,490 out other ways of interacting with one another's value systems, like, Bitcoin 1315 01:09:24,730 --> 01:09:30,970 will be used, but not necessarily nondeclassification of Bitcoin. 1316 01:09:31,505 --> 01:09:38,012 We can see people just, trading with their reputational capital, I mean, value for 1317 01:09:38,012 --> 01:09:42,042 value is not only SATs, it's, services. 1318 01:09:42,070 --> 01:09:45,762 in general, like the way I see it, we're, engaged in a trade. 1319 01:09:45,762 --> 01:09:48,582 Right now we're exchanging information, one with one another. 1320 01:09:48,932 --> 01:09:50,582 you are giving me your life. 1321 01:09:50,762 --> 01:09:52,742 I'm giving you my life right now. 1322 01:09:52,795 --> 01:09:54,155 This is this moment. 1323 01:09:54,605 --> 01:09:55,945 It's not coming back. 1324 01:09:56,045 --> 01:09:57,345 I'm giving it away to you. 1325 01:09:57,385 --> 01:10:01,358 And you're gracious enough to give away piece of your life to me right now. 1326 01:10:01,358 --> 01:10:04,725 And I'm wandering away here, I think. 1327 01:10:04,735 --> 01:10:10,685 But I'd like to plant these little, these little seeds of something 1328 01:10:10,685 --> 01:10:14,105 that will lead to that which you can do without your own mind. 1329 01:10:14,105 --> 01:10:14,125 Thank you. 1330 01:10:14,525 --> 01:10:17,425 That's the big insight at the, uh, the, the Sherry on top of 1331 01:10:17,425 --> 01:10:20,415 this, that if you don't have the craving, you don't need the thing. 1332 01:10:20,855 --> 01:10:23,845 You can be happy with just your Bitcoin stack and a toothbrush, which, 1333 01:10:23,895 --> 01:10:27,235 which your wall there behind you alludes to that you're already doing. 1334 01:10:27,235 --> 01:10:29,335 You're already living like that. 1335 01:10:30,300 --> 01:10:30,710 Look at it. 1336 01:10:30,730 --> 01:10:31,810 There's nothing behind me. 1337 01:10:31,810 --> 01:10:32,860 There's holes in the wall. 1338 01:10:33,270 --> 01:10:34,260 I'm stacking, baby. 1339 01:10:35,033 --> 01:10:35,623 Wonderful. 1340 01:10:35,653 --> 01:10:39,143 And maybe that is the perfect note to end things on. 1341 01:10:39,143 --> 01:10:43,023 So I'll, I'll, I'll repeat the question, but, and, uh, Knut 1342 01:10:43,153 --> 01:10:44,863 can not interrupt this time. 1343 01:10:45,223 --> 01:10:47,213 Uh, any final thoughts, Luke? 1344 01:10:48,528 --> 01:10:51,498 I don't think I have any. 1345 01:10:51,753 --> 01:10:53,633 I think we've covered so much today. 1346 01:10:54,043 --> 01:10:57,043 My final thought would be, thank you so much for having me. 1347 01:10:57,043 --> 01:10:58,133 I really appreciate it. 1348 01:10:58,203 --> 01:11:02,951 And if there's anyone out there, considering, you know, they're 1349 01:11:02,951 --> 01:11:04,531 listening to this and they've made it this far Bitcoiner. 1350 01:11:07,026 --> 01:11:08,746 Reach out and just talk to more Bitcoiners. 1351 01:11:08,886 --> 01:11:13,342 I think, I was initially very scared to talk to Bitcoiners, uh, when I was a lot 1352 01:11:13,342 --> 01:11:15,382 earlier in my Bitcoin rabbit hole journey. 1353 01:11:15,672 --> 01:11:16,342 They scared me. 1354 01:11:16,342 --> 01:11:19,572 They were toxic on Twitter back in 2019, but it was some of the 1355 01:11:19,582 --> 01:11:21,682 best, uh, things I could have done. 1356 01:11:21,712 --> 01:11:24,052 So if you knew, if you're learning about Bitcoin, reach 1357 01:11:24,052 --> 01:11:27,572 out, talk to more Bitcoiners, uh, spread the Bitcoin message. 1358 01:11:27,639 --> 01:11:28,919 and thank you so much for having me, gentlemen. 1359 01:11:29,477 --> 01:11:29,957 Wonderful. 1360 01:11:29,957 --> 01:11:32,277 And where can everyone find you, by the way? 1361 01:11:33,042 --> 01:11:38,442 So I will be shitposting on Twitter, I, um, am making videos on the Money Matters 1362 01:11:38,442 --> 01:11:42,760 YouTube channel, a couple of videos a week, yeah, if you want to tell me they're 1363 01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:47,260 shit, or if you want to tell me you don't like, uh, me for any reason, send 1364 01:11:47,260 --> 01:11:51,707 me your hate mail, I am open to it, I, you'll find me on Twitter, I'm everywhere. 1365 01:11:52,070 --> 01:11:55,490 Well, look, we appreciate what you and what you do a lot. 1366 01:11:55,520 --> 01:12:00,785 And I, I love this conversation and I'd like to continue preferably 1367 01:12:00,815 --> 01:12:04,795 in real life sometimes or away from keyboard, as we say. 1368 01:12:05,022 --> 01:12:08,032 yeah, thank you very much for coming on our show and, uh, good luck with 1369 01:12:08,032 --> 01:12:11,542 everything you do and just reach out if there's anything you want. 1370 01:12:12,537 --> 01:12:12,917 thank you. 1371 01:12:12,917 --> 01:12:14,177 I really appreciate that. 1372 01:12:14,197 --> 01:12:16,707 Uh, that means a lot, uh, coming from yourself, Knut. 1373 01:12:16,807 --> 01:12:19,257 I've read two of your books, not, not four. 1374 01:12:19,257 --> 01:12:20,347 I think you have four now. 1375 01:12:20,347 --> 01:12:24,177 I've read, uh, Infinity Divided by 21 Million and, uh, 1376 01:12:24,617 --> 01:12:25,917 Sovereignty Through Mathematics. 1377 01:12:25,957 --> 01:12:26,947 That's the other one I've read. 1378 01:12:26,997 --> 01:12:28,747 So it means a lot coming from yourself. 1379 01:12:29,087 --> 01:12:29,887 Thank you so much. 1380 01:12:31,247 --> 01:12:31,727 Thank you. 1381 01:12:31,777 --> 01:12:35,447 And, uh, yeah, hope you enjoy the, the other two books. 1382 01:12:36,307 --> 01:12:37,077 I'll get there. 1383 01:12:37,137 --> 01:12:37,557 I'll get there. 1384 01:12:37,567 --> 01:12:39,227 Praxeology is the next one on my list. 1385 01:12:40,317 --> 01:12:40,747 Yeah. 1386 01:12:40,747 --> 01:12:40,817 Yeah. 1387 01:12:40,877 --> 01:12:42,937 I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, afterwards. 1388 01:12:43,137 --> 01:12:45,607 So make sure to send a DM or something. 1389 01:12:45,957 --> 01:12:47,227 Anyway, thanks a lot 1390 01:12:47,696 --> 01:12:48,526 Thanks a lot, Luke. 1391 01:12:48,961 --> 01:12:49,621 thanks, Danja. 1392 01:12:49,852 --> 01:12:50,242 Take care. 1393 01:12:51,731 --> 01:12:54,061 So what did you think of that episode with Luke? 1394 01:12:54,241 --> 01:12:55,401 What was your favorite moment? 1395 01:12:55,561 --> 01:12:56,331 Let us know. 1396 01:12:56,721 --> 01:12:59,921 You can send us a boostergram on Fountain, leave us a comment on YouTube, 1397 01:13:00,071 --> 01:13:01,941 or get in touch on Nostr or Twitter. 1398 01:13:02,621 --> 01:13:04,761 If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like the episode 1399 01:13:04,761 --> 01:13:05,961 and subscribe to the channel. 1400 01:13:06,401 --> 01:13:10,151 Our show's sponsors are Amber App, Wasabi Wallet, Orange Pill 1401 01:13:10,171 --> 01:13:12,461 App, The Bitcoin Way, and Geyser. 1402 01:13:12,801 --> 01:13:14,501 Check out their details in the description. 1403 01:13:15,341 --> 01:13:16,271 That's all for now. 1404 01:13:16,651 --> 01:13:19,121 See you next time and thanks for listening.