1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,205
Welcome to the Bitcoin Infinity Show, brought to you by  BitBox Stampseed,

2
00:00:04,225 --> 00:00:06,605
the Bitcoin Advisor and ShopInBit.

3
00:00:06,762 --> 00:00:10,649
Go to  BitcoinInfinity.com for books, merch and more.

4
00:00:10,814 --> 00:00:11,804
Enjoy the conversation.

5
00:00:12,821 --> 00:00:16,051
Guy, welcome to the Bitcoin Infinity Show, thanks for joining us.

6
00:00:16,632 --> 00:00:17,112
What is up?

7
00:00:17,132 --> 00:00:21,172
I still put it as, I still put it as freedom footprint in my calendar.

8
00:00:21,392 --> 00:00:23,602
And then when I went looking for the email, I again

9
00:00:23,612 --> 00:00:25,062
searched for Freedom Footprint.

10
00:00:25,262 --> 00:00:27,372
And I was like, shit, where's the link?

11
00:00:27,632 --> 00:00:31,082
I went, I, I, I like kind of panicked for like four or five minutes.

12
00:00:31,132 --> 00:00:33,052
And then I was like, oh, you fucking idiot.

13
00:00:33,082 --> 00:00:34,662
It's the Bitcoin infinity share.

14
00:00:35,706 --> 00:00:37,436
Yeah, that's the problem with rebrands.

15
00:00:38,026 --> 00:00:39,436
Uh, yeah.

16
00:00:39,436 --> 00:00:41,286
What, what, what was your original brand?

17
00:00:41,859 --> 00:00:45,596
Crypto, uh,

18
00:00:47,686 --> 00:00:49,346
was the crypto economy.

19
00:00:49,361 --> 00:00:50,641
It's a crypto

20
00:00:50,896 --> 00:00:51,186
Yeah.

21
00:00:51,186 --> 00:00:51,526
Yeah.

22
00:00:51,526 --> 00:00:51,606
Yeah.

23
00:00:51,626 --> 00:00:52,236
Ooh.

24
00:00:52,601 --> 00:00:55,451
that before crypto was like, a straight up bad word.

25
00:00:55,661 --> 00:00:59,631
And part of my reasoning, it was becoming that, and part of my reasoning was I

26
00:00:59,631 --> 00:01:03,791
was trying to trojan horse, is that because crypto was like the popular

27
00:01:03,791 --> 00:01:06,451
term, I was like, okay, well maybe I'll get like a bunch of shitcorners,

28
00:01:06,621 --> 00:01:08,201
and I'll convert them into bitcorners.

29
00:01:08,461 --> 00:01:11,171
And then it like slowly got worse and worse, and it was like, crypto was

30
00:01:11,171 --> 00:01:15,981
just like, gross, more and more gross, like over the next like two years.

31
00:01:16,001 --> 00:01:16,591
And I was like.

32
00:01:16,831 --> 00:01:20,341
Man, I think I made the wrong bet, and it wasn't working, it was still

33
00:01:20,341 --> 00:01:23,261
just only Bitcoiners listening to the show, I didn't trick anybody.

34
00:01:23,846 --> 00:01:24,506
fantastic.

35
00:01:25,051 --> 00:01:26,481
And I was like, I gotta get rid of this thing.

36
00:01:26,551 --> 00:01:27,431
I gotta drop this shit.

37
00:01:28,261 --> 00:01:31,331
Guy, uh, I mean, it's so good to have you here.

38
00:01:31,401 --> 00:01:34,881
We haven't done a pod in ages, which is just weird.

39
00:01:35,341 --> 00:01:36,911
You are one of my favorite people.

40
00:01:37,571 --> 00:01:40,631
Yeah, you're one of my favorite people in the whole universe.

41
00:01:40,971 --> 00:01:45,021
You've just finished recording with, this is a bit of insider information here.

42
00:01:45,041 --> 00:01:48,171
Well, you've just finished recording Bitcoin the Inversive Clown World,

43
00:01:48,211 --> 00:01:52,661
the audiobook, which is probably out by the time that this pod comes out.

44
00:01:52,691 --> 00:01:56,096
So, so like, Yeah, that's, that's absolutely great.

45
00:01:56,136 --> 00:01:58,866
I've listened through it and I absolutely loved it.

46
00:01:58,866 --> 00:02:00,096
You've stepped up your game.

47
00:02:00,796 --> 00:02:05,856
Everything is better, even though it was fucking super awesome before, so,

48
00:02:06,306 --> 00:02:08,046
what are you saying about the last ones, man?

49
00:02:08,066 --> 00:02:09,286
You saying I was shitty?

50
00:02:10,146 --> 00:02:15,986
no, no, no, I'm not saying it was shitty, I'm saying, but, but maybe, like, I didn't

51
00:02:16,136 --> 00:02:22,936
believe it, I didn't believe it could get any better, but it could, like, uh, yeah.

52
00:02:23,166 --> 00:02:26,406
Then again, I didn't believe I could write any better, but I could, uh,

53
00:02:26,536 --> 00:02:28,946
when I got a Luke to write with, so

54
00:02:29,006 --> 00:02:29,606
it, dude.

55
00:02:29,826 --> 00:02:30,826
Such a good book.

56
00:02:30,996 --> 00:02:31,346
Such a

57
00:02:31,446 --> 00:02:32,386
thank you, thank you.

58
00:02:32,666 --> 00:02:37,716
But before we go into this, um, back and forth about that, or, and about other

59
00:02:37,716 --> 00:02:42,906
things, uh, for our listeners that don't know you, why the fuck you wouldn't, I,

60
00:02:42,976 --> 00:02:50,466
uh, but, like, anyway, uh, can you give us the TLDR on the voice of Bitcoin, MrGuys1?

61
00:02:50,666 --> 00:02:54,606
Yeah, I'm the, I'm the guy who's read more about Bitcoin than anybody else you know.

62
00:02:54,656 --> 00:02:56,796
Went down the rabbit hole in 2011.

63
00:02:57,691 --> 00:03:02,941
Uh, and literally fell so far so fast that there was never, there was never

64
00:03:02,941 --> 00:03:10,401
a way to come out and, um, started the podcast, um, not to be named,

65
00:03:10,501 --> 00:03:18,691
which is now known as Bitcoin Audible, uh, in 2018, 2018, March of 2018.

66
00:03:19,611 --> 00:03:24,211
And, uh, so I'm coming up, I'll be coming up on seven, six years.

67
00:03:24,806 --> 00:03:26,436
Now 2024 was six years.

68
00:03:26,626 --> 00:03:29,376
Oh my god, I'll be coming up on seven years in 2025.

69
00:03:29,376 --> 00:03:30,036
That's coming in March.

70
00:03:30,486 --> 00:03:30,886
All right.

71
00:03:30,926 --> 00:03:36,096
Um, and, uh, and also I've started a number of other podcasts just around

72
00:03:36,686 --> 00:03:39,566
tech that I've always been a techie guy.

73
00:03:39,636 --> 00:03:43,746
Um, and I've read audio books and Knut, if you've, if you've got any of other Knut's

74
00:03:43,756 --> 00:03:45,426
books, I've read all of his audio books.

75
00:03:45,426 --> 00:03:46,296
They're all great.

76
00:03:46,636 --> 00:03:51,806
Um, I've done, uh, Broken Money, uh, by Lend, Fiat Standard, uh, from

77
00:03:51,806 --> 00:03:58,306
SAFE, uh, uh, Layered Money, I mean, just, I think I've got like 15 or 16

78
00:03:58,336 --> 00:04:01,886
now, somewhere in there, uh, getting close to 20, getting close to 20.

79
00:04:02,246 --> 00:04:04,296
Maybe I'll just stop at 21 just for the hell of it.

80
00:04:04,326 --> 00:04:10,586
Um, uh, but, uh, yeah, so I, I read everything I can get my hands

81
00:04:10,586 --> 00:04:12,776
on about Bitcoin, Econ, Tech.

82
00:04:13,186 --> 00:04:14,546
And also have the shows A.

83
00:04:14,546 --> 00:04:14,706
I.

84
00:04:14,726 --> 00:04:19,736
Unchained and The Pair Report and a little bit of, uh, I don't know, I keep

85
00:04:19,736 --> 00:04:23,646
saying that it's not dead, but I still have yet to bring another episode back.

86
00:04:23,646 --> 00:04:26,666
I think we only have done nine episodes ever, but Shitcoin Insider.

87
00:04:27,786 --> 00:04:29,496
It's never, it's never truly dead.

88
00:04:29,906 --> 00:04:31,206
It's never truly dead.

89
00:04:31,586 --> 00:04:34,136
There will always be a reason to talk about shitcoins.

90
00:04:35,126 --> 00:04:38,356
Yeah, just like the shitcoins themselves, they never truly die,

91
00:04:38,496 --> 00:04:39,766
They never truly die.

92
00:04:40,616 --> 00:04:43,356
For better or for worse, they're always there.

93
00:04:44,756 --> 00:04:46,736
Alright, so, so yeah.

94
00:04:46,766 --> 00:04:49,966
Um, um, where do we go with this?

95
00:04:49,966 --> 00:04:51,676
Like what, what have we been up to?

96
00:04:51,701 --> 00:04:53,866
Uh, uh, like yeah, accept this.

97
00:04:53,866 --> 00:04:57,526
I mean, you've been, you've been given a lot of talks and doing small videos.

98
00:04:57,526 --> 00:04:58,966
I've enjoyed them immensely.

99
00:04:59,416 --> 00:05:04,641
That little Milton freed money, four quadrants, others people's money thing.

100
00:05:04,646 --> 00:05:05,386
I love that.

101
00:05:05,656 --> 00:05:05,896
Yeah.

102
00:05:05,896 --> 00:05:06,736
The bullshit matrix

103
00:05:07,116 --> 00:05:10,046
yeah, uh, did I mean the give a shit matrix, excuse me?

104
00:05:10,636 --> 00:05:11,836
the give a shit matrix.

105
00:05:11,896 --> 00:05:12,466
Yeah.

106
00:05:12,616 --> 00:05:13,161
How does that work?

107
00:05:13,989 --> 00:05:16,309
uh, wait, you want me to break down the give a shit matrix right now?

108
00:05:16,794 --> 00:05:17,534
Yeah, why not?

109
00:05:17,934 --> 00:05:18,424
Why not?

110
00:05:18,797 --> 00:05:22,807
Yeah, so Milton Friedman has this, uh, really fantastic, it's so funny

111
00:05:22,817 --> 00:05:28,357
how many, how often we get lost in kind of arguing about surface stuff.

112
00:05:28,407 --> 00:05:31,817
You know, arguing about kind of the waves in the ocean rather

113
00:05:31,887 --> 00:05:33,467
than thinking about the current.

114
00:05:33,907 --> 00:05:35,307
Like, how critical that is.

115
00:05:36,172 --> 00:05:40,482
Fundamental incentives are and that you can't get around those things you

116
00:05:40,542 --> 00:05:44,542
the when you screw up the underlying it does not it does not matter in the

117
00:05:44,542 --> 00:05:51,162
slightest what you do on top of it and one of the most powerful and inescapable

118
00:05:52,322 --> 00:05:57,352
underlying principles of how to spend resource how to use up resources which

119
00:05:57,352 --> 00:06:00,942
is everything that we do we just use up resources we are either producing

120
00:06:01,222 --> 00:06:02,802
Or we produce and then we use it up.

121
00:06:03,382 --> 00:06:12,692
And the, the goal is for those resources to go to the best, the most

122
00:06:12,762 --> 00:06:15,972
optimal, and most positive use case.

123
00:06:16,242 --> 00:06:18,552
How does it produce the most possible value?

124
00:06:18,872 --> 00:06:21,172
How do we care the absolute most?

125
00:06:21,812 --> 00:06:27,682
About how it is being used, and like, about what we get out of it, what are the

126
00:06:27,692 --> 00:06:31,902
results of the use of these resources, and how many of the resources does

127
00:06:31,902 --> 00:06:34,092
it take to accomplish those results.

128
00:06:34,162 --> 00:06:37,352
Those are the two primary concerns that we have, always.

129
00:06:37,642 --> 00:06:39,492
And everything is scarce.

130
00:06:39,812 --> 00:06:40,942
We've run out of all of it.

131
00:06:41,502 --> 00:06:45,322
If we don't care about those two things, inevitably, we are wasting

132
00:06:45,322 --> 00:06:46,832
resources in some form or fashion.

133
00:06:47,092 --> 00:06:50,152
Either we're using too many for too crappy of a result, or we have

134
00:06:50,152 --> 00:06:54,352
a crappy result, and no matter how little we're using, we're still

135
00:06:54,352 --> 00:06:55,412
just not getting anything out of it.

136
00:06:56,332 --> 00:07:00,862
So, Milton Friedman has this great talk, or just kind of an interview that I

137
00:07:00,862 --> 00:07:04,552
remember hearing, talking about how we have four different ways to spend money.

138
00:07:06,082 --> 00:07:10,792
Is, I can spend money that I earned on myself.

139
00:07:12,352 --> 00:07:14,242
I can spend money that I earned on myself.

140
00:07:14,682 --> 00:07:16,832
On you or somebody else.

141
00:07:18,072 --> 00:07:26,152
I can spend money that you earned on me, or I can spend money that

142
00:07:26,162 --> 00:07:29,932
you earned on somebody else.

143
00:07:31,322 --> 00:07:37,212
And the fundamental connection to the cost and the re and the results

144
00:07:37,262 --> 00:07:38,862
are different for every one of them.

145
00:07:39,612 --> 00:07:42,992
If, and this is, this ultimately creates the bullshit matri I

146
00:07:42,992 --> 00:07:44,412
mean the, the give a shit matrix.

147
00:07:44,412 --> 00:07:45,602
Why'd I call it bullshit all of a sudden?

148
00:07:45,852 --> 00:07:47,152
The give a shit matrix.

149
00:07:47,572 --> 00:07:54,092
And so if you put on the, uh, x and y axis the how much we care about the results and

150
00:07:54,092 --> 00:07:56,202
how much we care about how much it costs.

151
00:07:56,912 --> 00:08:01,942
When I am spending money on myself, money that I earned, one of the most

152
00:08:01,942 --> 00:08:05,592
important things to understand is that money is a weighting system.

153
00:08:06,302 --> 00:08:08,672
It is weighing the value of something.

154
00:08:09,332 --> 00:08:14,362
And only the money that you earn can you actually feel the weight of.

155
00:08:14,987 --> 00:08:18,567
Because it is you who put in the blood, sweat, and tears

156
00:08:18,757 --> 00:08:20,607
in order to make that earning.

157
00:08:21,277 --> 00:08:27,227
To pull in 300 today, and that 300 is literally your lifeblood.

158
00:08:27,477 --> 00:08:31,217
It is your way to interact with the economy, to get your food, to get, you

159
00:08:31,217 --> 00:08:36,977
know, save up and get braces for your kids, to have any kind of a break so that

160
00:08:37,067 --> 00:08:39,487
you can relax and get your head straight.

161
00:08:39,597 --> 00:08:41,177
That is your lifeblood.

162
00:08:42,317 --> 00:08:46,242
So, when you earned money, And then you spend it on yourself.

163
00:08:46,702 --> 00:08:53,992
You care absolutely the most about what you get out of it, and you feel every

164
00:08:53,992 --> 00:08:56,482
bit of the weight of how much it costs.

165
00:08:57,182 --> 00:08:59,392
Because, you know, when you buy a sandwich for yourself,

166
00:08:59,412 --> 00:09:00,892
you have to eat the sandwich.

167
00:09:01,862 --> 00:09:04,712
You want the best possible sandwich that you can get.

168
00:09:04,862 --> 00:09:08,652
And if they're charging you 20 for a sandwich that feels like 10, you're

169
00:09:08,652 --> 00:09:13,252
going to be very unhappy because you know how much that 20 weighs.

170
00:09:14,007 --> 00:09:15,717
You mean I'm at the airport?

171
00:09:16,242 --> 00:09:19,182
At the airport, exactly like at the airport.

172
00:09:20,002 --> 00:09:26,042
Um, and when I am spending, now when I am spending my money on

173
00:09:26,052 --> 00:09:31,792
you, I still feel all of the weight of the resources that go into it.

174
00:09:31,802 --> 00:09:33,132
How much it costs.

175
00:09:33,777 --> 00:09:38,917
When I buy a 20 sandwich, but I don't really care so much about what it tastes

176
00:09:38,917 --> 00:09:41,057
like because I'm not going to taste it.

177
00:09:41,587 --> 00:09:44,647
I'm not going to eat it, and there's no way.

178
00:09:44,657 --> 00:09:47,437
It doesn't matter how nice of a person I am.

179
00:09:47,437 --> 00:09:49,247
Doesn't matter how empathetic I am.

180
00:09:49,247 --> 00:09:50,337
It's not relevant.

181
00:09:50,767 --> 00:09:55,317
It's the sheer fact that I will not go into my lived experience.

182
00:09:55,932 --> 00:10:01,522
That I cannot feel or care about the result as much as I would with me.

183
00:10:01,532 --> 00:10:02,872
It is axiomatic.

184
00:10:03,702 --> 00:10:07,672
And in fact, if you are a very empathetic person, it still just means

185
00:10:08,482 --> 00:10:11,662
you will still more, it just means that you care more than other people.

186
00:10:11,662 --> 00:10:15,072
It doesn't mean that you care more about what it is when it's you.

187
00:10:15,972 --> 00:10:19,462
So, I care a lot about the cost.

188
00:10:20,397 --> 00:10:23,087
But I don't care so much about the results.

189
00:10:23,267 --> 00:10:29,377
You know, if they accidentally put olives on your 10 sandwich, you should really

190
00:10:29,517 --> 00:10:33,647
just, why not, how about, don't bitch about it because I bought it for you.

191
00:10:34,177 --> 00:10:34,517
You know?

192
00:10:35,747 --> 00:10:39,167
if you put olives on my 10 sandwich, I'm gonna be very, very mad.

193
00:10:40,827 --> 00:10:47,237
Then there is spending your money on me.

194
00:10:48,327 --> 00:10:52,467
Suddenly the weight of the cost goes down drastically.

195
00:10:53,337 --> 00:10:56,597
This is the equivalent of getting the company credit card to go out to eat.

196
00:10:57,257 --> 00:11:01,667
You're going to spend a whole lot more time thinking about Exactly what you

197
00:11:01,667 --> 00:11:07,057
want off of that menu, then you are going to be looking at the, the sidebar

198
00:11:07,057 --> 00:11:09,077
with all the numbers on it, right?

199
00:11:09,677 --> 00:11:12,977
You're not that worried about the cost, but you're definitely going to make sure

200
00:11:12,977 --> 00:11:14,367
that you get something that you want.

201
00:11:14,467 --> 00:11:16,977
In fact, you might get a little bit excited because now you can

202
00:11:16,977 --> 00:11:20,057
actually get dessert when you usually don't because it costs too much.

203
00:11:20,707 --> 00:11:24,567
So you care a lot about the results, but not the cost.

204
00:11:25,817 --> 00:11:33,507
Then there is me spending your money on somebody else.

205
00:11:35,127 --> 00:11:37,897
I have no connection to the results.

206
00:11:38,557 --> 00:11:39,827
I don't have to live in that.

207
00:11:41,332 --> 00:11:43,162
I don't have to eat that sandwich.

208
00:11:43,192 --> 00:11:45,722
I don't have to, I don't even have to see the result.

209
00:11:45,962 --> 00:11:50,402
In fact, I could just get somebody to write a report for me and have

210
00:11:50,402 --> 00:11:53,602
them judge whether or not those results are worthy of my time.

211
00:11:53,812 --> 00:11:54,282
Sure.

212
00:11:54,482 --> 00:11:54,922
Good.

213
00:11:54,932 --> 00:11:56,652
There was some number ticked up.

214
00:11:56,932 --> 00:11:57,332
Great.

215
00:11:57,332 --> 00:11:58,312
We did a great job.

216
00:11:58,672 --> 00:12:03,332
And I also don't give a flying F what the cost is.

217
00:12:04,257 --> 00:12:05,327
Because it's not mine.

218
00:12:05,347 --> 00:12:06,847
I don't feel the weight of any of it.

219
00:12:07,007 --> 00:12:09,657
And all you have to do is casually look.

220
00:12:10,237 --> 00:12:14,827
Understand every single thing that the government does is in that quadrant.

221
00:12:16,227 --> 00:12:19,987
It's in the bottom left quadrant where you do not give a shit about

222
00:12:19,987 --> 00:12:23,817
the results and you do not give a shit about the cost and all you have

223
00:12:23,817 --> 00:12:29,267
to do is listen to them to recognize this and then flip it around for you.

224
00:12:29,527 --> 00:12:33,447
Imagine if you think about how much, you know, I once.

225
00:12:34,532 --> 00:12:37,852
We were trying to buy a vacuum cleaner, and this is when we

226
00:12:37,852 --> 00:12:39,322
were kind of stressing balls.

227
00:12:39,322 --> 00:12:40,142
We were having a hard time.

228
00:12:40,142 --> 00:12:41,382
We weren't making a ton of money.

229
00:12:42,327 --> 00:12:46,367
And we had to, we needed to buy a vacuum cleaner, and honestly, I, I'm,

230
00:12:46,407 --> 00:12:51,767
I'm a little bit, my mother is a clean freak, and she has passed some of this

231
00:12:51,777 --> 00:12:55,077
down to me, and so I want a really nice vacuum cleaner that's going to last,

232
00:12:55,077 --> 00:12:56,257
I don't want a cheap piece of crap.

233
00:12:56,717 --> 00:12:59,797
We literally spent two months.

234
00:13:00,337 --> 00:13:04,497
Reading reviews, looking around just like casually every single day.

235
00:13:04,497 --> 00:13:09,237
We put more, more work into making sure we got a vacuum cleaner,

236
00:13:09,247 --> 00:13:13,447
which mind you, we still have like 15 years later and it works.

237
00:13:13,487 --> 00:13:14,957
It is a solid vacuum cleaner.

238
00:13:14,957 --> 00:13:16,197
We did a really good job.

239
00:13:16,577 --> 00:13:18,127
It was 120.

240
00:13:19,192 --> 00:13:23,782
That is the amount of care and concern we put into 120 worth of costs.

241
00:13:25,232 --> 00:13:31,642
Now think about how much concern went into a 3, 000 page bill that not one

242
00:13:31,952 --> 00:13:34,522
piece of shit in Congress even read.

243
00:13:34,832 --> 00:13:39,722
Because who the hell can read a 3, 000 page bill worth of legal nonsense?

244
00:13:40,162 --> 00:13:44,602
Written by a bunch of lobbyists who are entirely in the quadrant of I'm

245
00:13:44,602 --> 00:13:46,932
gonna use your money to spend on me.

246
00:13:48,502 --> 00:13:54,162
And then submitted to Congress, forced a vote in a matter of like two or three

247
00:13:54,162 --> 00:13:59,372
days in which the best they can do is skim through and has more zeros than anybody

248
00:13:59,372 --> 00:14:01,472
can actually comprehend in the cost.

249
00:14:01,852 --> 00:14:07,462
And where Biden gets up in front of a podium and talks about bajillion,

250
00:14:07,482 --> 00:14:13,132
trillion, million, billion, like doesn't even, he can't even say the number, it's

251
00:14:13,132 --> 00:14:18,912
so big and absurd, and compare that to when it is actually you spending it on

252
00:14:18,922 --> 00:14:23,837
yourself, the amount of concern, there is more concern, I promise you, Up, down,

253
00:14:23,847 --> 00:14:28,817
left, right, fucking sideways, there was more concern in the 120 I spent on my

254
00:14:28,847 --> 00:14:34,714
fucking vacuum cleaner than they spent in 3, 000 pages that distributed 2.

255
00:14:34,714 --> 00:14:39,537
5 trillion to a bunch of corporations and lobbyists.

256
00:14:40,667 --> 00:14:44,587
You're talking about a factor of literally trillions.

257
00:14:45,247 --> 00:14:52,827
In the degree of concern about where that money went, which is mind boggling, you

258
00:14:52,827 --> 00:14:57,957
are looking at a system that literally destroys society trillions of dollars at

259
00:14:57,957 --> 00:15:05,102
a time, because no one gives an abso no one gives a flying fuck what it costs.

260
00:15:05,722 --> 00:15:06,642
Or what you get out of it.

261
00:15:07,942 --> 00:15:12,902
And in fact, in fact, they are incentivized for it to get worse.

262
00:15:13,352 --> 00:15:17,852
For the results to be so shitty that people will demand they do it again.

263
00:15:18,892 --> 00:15:21,922
It is better for them for the results to be awful.

264
00:15:22,162 --> 00:15:25,252
Because then they get to say we didn't have enough money.

265
00:15:26,932 --> 00:15:28,842
When that's not the problem at all.

266
00:15:28,872 --> 00:15:32,802
The problem is that their entire world exists in the bottom left

267
00:15:32,802 --> 00:15:34,472
quadrant of the give a shit matrix.

268
00:15:34,547 --> 00:15:34,877
Mm

269
00:15:35,657 --> 00:15:36,407
absolutely.

270
00:15:36,417 --> 00:15:38,907
I, I, I, beautifully illustrated.

271
00:15:38,977 --> 00:15:45,147
It reminds me of, I did some practice at the, uh, what's it called?

272
00:15:45,147 --> 00:15:49,797
Like, um, it was a, the municipality of the town I grew up in.

273
00:15:50,242 --> 00:15:54,712
They had like, uh, uh, some institution for roads, and, uh, and stuff like

274
00:15:54,712 --> 00:15:59,362
that, and for, for shoveling snow in the winter, like, uh, the municipality,

275
00:15:59,372 --> 00:16:04,912
is, uh, taxpayer pay, paid, and one winter it didn't snow at all, so they

276
00:16:04,912 --> 00:16:07,182
went under budget by quite a lot,

277
00:16:07,547 --> 00:16:07,957
Mm hmm.

278
00:16:08,087 --> 00:16:08,147
Of

279
00:16:08,812 --> 00:16:13,902
but, this is how these things work, like, what do you think happened, that they

280
00:16:13,902 --> 00:16:17,772
got a lower budget, that the people got their money back for their taxes back?

281
00:16:17,867 --> 00:16:18,277
Of course that

282
00:16:18,317 --> 00:16:19,007
No!

283
00:16:20,227 --> 00:16:24,657
What happened was that everyone working for the snow shoveling thing got a

284
00:16:24,657 --> 00:16:27,637
bonus, uh, because of work well done.

285
00:16:27,647 --> 00:16:28,897
There was no snow on the streets.

286
00:16:30,317 --> 00:16:36,502
So, so, they made sure that they, that they made their budget, like, That they

287
00:16:36,502 --> 00:16:42,202
cost enough, like, and, uh, optimally you would want your government funded

288
00:16:42,242 --> 00:16:46,312
or no taxpayer funded thing to cost a little more than it did last year.

289
00:16:46,342 --> 00:16:49,912
Every year, like it can never cost less because then you get less money.

290
00:16:50,577 --> 00:16:56,590
And it's wild to think about how unbelievably backwards that is and

291
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,130
how people think they're getting a free lunch with the government.

292
00:16:59,950 --> 00:17:05,510
You know, if they don't see the bill come to their doorstep, they think

293
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:10,020
that the money has no cost because they fail to recognize that the money

294
00:17:10,030 --> 00:17:11,300
has nothing to do with anything.

295
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:13,900
The cost is the resources.

296
00:17:13,970 --> 00:17:15,970
Money is just a proxy for resources.

297
00:17:16,445 --> 00:17:18,355
It's just, it's basically a receipt system.

298
00:17:18,975 --> 00:17:20,485
It's a collective receipt system.

299
00:17:20,495 --> 00:17:24,105
How do we have a receipt for favors rendered that we can

300
00:17:24,105 --> 00:17:25,775
use for redeeming favors later?

301
00:17:26,035 --> 00:17:26,445
That's it.

302
00:17:27,175 --> 00:17:30,265
I did something for you, you gave me a receipt, and now I have this

303
00:17:30,265 --> 00:17:32,695
receipt and I can come back to somebody else and I can redeem them.

304
00:17:34,075 --> 00:17:37,395
Government, anytime it prints money or goes into a deficit,

305
00:17:37,425 --> 00:17:39,855
is just redeeming receipts.

306
00:17:40,385 --> 00:17:41,615
It's just counterfeiting receipts.

307
00:17:42,215 --> 00:17:44,955
It's just redeeming all of our favours and all of our resources and all of our

308
00:17:44,955 --> 00:17:50,095
time and our houses and our cars and our fuel without ever contributing anything.

309
00:17:50,595 --> 00:17:51,485
It's a fake receipt.

310
00:17:51,495 --> 00:17:52,345
It's just fraud.

311
00:17:52,993 --> 00:17:58,223
Yeah, it reminds me so much of, uh, one of my favorite analogies about printing

312
00:17:58,223 --> 00:18:03,223
money is from the great artists of the 20th century in Southern Europe.

313
00:18:03,283 --> 00:18:06,233
So, Picasso and Salvador Dali and all of those guys.

314
00:18:06,703 --> 00:18:11,583
And there's one incident where Salvador Dali had a car accident.

315
00:18:12,118 --> 00:18:13,888
It's one of, one of the previous books.

316
00:18:13,998 --> 00:18:15,948
It's in, uh, Independence Reimagined?

317
00:18:16,394 --> 00:18:19,447
Yeah.

318
00:18:19,578 --> 00:18:22,758
because I heard of that after I, I told that story and he's, he's

319
00:18:22,758 --> 00:18:26,298
running into another car and wrecks the other car somewhere in France.

320
00:18:26,298 --> 00:18:28,698
And the, the French man walks out and he's all mad.

321
00:18:29,298 --> 00:18:33,428
And what Dali does is that he signs the car wreck making the,

322
00:18:33,758 --> 00:18:37,328
the car wreck more valuable than the original cost of the car.

323
00:18:37,598 --> 00:18:39,098
like the original price of the car.

324
00:18:39,498 --> 00:18:42,188
That he destroyed, because he's so famous at this point.

325
00:18:42,578 --> 00:18:46,408
And apparently these painters, they used that for their restaurant bills.

326
00:18:46,418 --> 00:18:48,548
So instead of, uh, their restaurant bills.

327
00:18:48,558 --> 00:18:52,508
So instead of paying for a meal, they started signing the receipts.

328
00:18:52,538 --> 00:18:55,678
And the receipts became more valuable than whatever the dinner cost.

329
00:18:57,418 --> 00:18:59,808
Except that they couldn't do it forever.

330
00:18:59,898 --> 00:19:02,988
Because there was inflation in signed receipts.

331
00:19:02,988 --> 00:19:06,958
All of a sudden everyone had Salvador Dali and Picasso signed receipts.

332
00:19:07,478 --> 00:19:10,778
So, and, and it's a perfect metaphor for money printing, right?

333
00:19:11,518 --> 00:19:15,088
And also like , A couple of things come to mind when you tell

334
00:19:15,088 --> 00:19:16,528
the story about the quadrants.

335
00:19:16,888 --> 00:19:22,658
One is the, the, um, uh, famous Mar Margaret Thatcher quote.

336
00:19:22,778 --> 00:19:26,108
Uh, the problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other

337
00:19:26,108 --> 00:19:31,198
people's money, which is loading to the, the, that's that the resources go

338
00:19:31,198 --> 00:19:33,598
away if you don't use them properly.

339
00:19:34,208 --> 00:19:35,288
And the other thing is that.

340
00:19:35,758 --> 00:19:42,988
Bitcoin is at the very, very best point, and it's at the very top

341
00:19:42,988 --> 00:19:44,378
corner of this quadrant, right?

342
00:19:45,038 --> 00:19:49,658
The very top corner, because it's giving a shit, uh, on steroids.

343
00:19:49,968 --> 00:19:53,128
You give a hundred percent shit about your money.

344
00:19:53,803 --> 00:19:57,323
You, you don't trust, you verify, you make sure that it's actually

345
00:19:57,323 --> 00:20:00,993
yours and it's being spent by you on stuff you wanted to buy.

346
00:20:01,668 --> 00:20:01,988
Yes.

347
00:20:02,373 --> 00:20:05,523
So, so it's the, it's the most give a shit point.

348
00:20:05,838 --> 00:20:10,318
It's, it's the apex of the job that money is supposed to do, but there's actually

349
00:20:10,318 --> 00:20:15,368
a feedback system in sound money itself and how money is supposed to work,

350
00:20:15,378 --> 00:20:17,568
which is brilliant because it amplifies.

351
00:20:18,093 --> 00:20:22,663
The giving is shit, even outside of the weight of what it meant to you,

352
00:20:23,003 --> 00:20:27,923
because you also have a reflection of the prosperity increase of

353
00:20:27,933 --> 00:20:32,733
society, of the productive increase of society reflecting in your money.

354
00:20:32,893 --> 00:20:37,508
Therefore, the longer The longer you hold onto it, the deeper the

355
00:20:37,508 --> 00:20:43,508
weight is, the more you realize that if you don't use up resources that

356
00:20:43,508 --> 00:20:48,278
you don't need to use up right now, in two years time, you can actually

357
00:20:48,278 --> 00:20:52,448
get access to a lot more resources because society is getting better.

358
00:20:52,688 --> 00:20:56,588
So what you, what you actually have is you have two things.

359
00:20:56,588 --> 00:21:00,458
You have both the weight of the resources and how much you earned.

360
00:21:00,953 --> 00:21:04,643
In, in knowing what the value of it because you know what you put

361
00:21:04,693 --> 00:21:06,383
into it in order to achieve it.

362
00:21:06,863 --> 00:21:11,023
But you also have in the back of your mind this incentive to wait because you

363
00:21:11,033 --> 00:21:16,433
know the, um, uh, to, to give it time because you know that the weight of

364
00:21:16,453 --> 00:21:19,067
everyone else's resources is the same.

365
00:21:19,518 --> 00:21:22,348
are going to, are going to increase over time.

366
00:21:22,668 --> 00:21:27,488
You know that it's going to be a greater portion of the economic pool, or excuse

367
00:21:27,488 --> 00:21:32,538
me, it's a greater percentage, it's the same percentage of a greater economic

368
00:21:32,548 --> 00:21:35,158
pool of resources later in the future.

369
00:21:35,338 --> 00:21:40,448
And therefore, you benefit also, not only from conserving your own resources, But

370
00:21:40,448 --> 00:21:45,258
conserving society's resources for the sake of making society better, and you

371
00:21:45,268 --> 00:21:48,998
don't have to know, you don't have to know that that's why, but that's why, that's

372
00:21:49,008 --> 00:21:54,418
why it's happening, is incentivizing you to hope, or to, to make a decision in

373
00:21:54,418 --> 00:21:58,298
order to make society better, for the purposes of making your own life better.

374
00:21:58,828 --> 00:22:00,538
It is aligning you in that way.

375
00:22:00,688 --> 00:22:03,128
So there's a collective benefit at the exact same time that

376
00:22:03,138 --> 00:22:04,478
there's an individual benefit.

377
00:22:05,163 --> 00:22:09,293
Yeah, and that, that reflection we refer to as number go up.

378
00:22:09,563 --> 00:22:12,683
That, that is what that, that is what that reflection is.

379
00:22:12,773 --> 00:22:19,123
And, yeah, and the opposite is true as well, like, um, that's why you

380
00:22:19,123 --> 00:22:25,083
see empty shelves on supermarkets in countries with price controls.

381
00:22:25,453 --> 00:22:30,383
Because, uh, socialism and other natural disasters don't fail

382
00:22:30,383 --> 00:22:32,603
because of a lack of incentives.

383
00:22:33,023 --> 00:22:38,573
They fail because of a manipulation of the price signal, first and foremost.

384
00:22:38,888 --> 00:22:41,078
They fail because of the success of their incentives.

385
00:22:42,693 --> 00:22:46,933
Yeah, in a way that's true, but like, the thing is, if you have a gun to your

386
00:22:46,933 --> 00:22:53,782
head and some general tells you VACK, VACK, you will work, like, so it's not

387
00:22:53,782 --> 00:22:59,423
the incentives, it is the pricing signal, because if you have no proper pricing

388
00:22:59,423 --> 00:23:03,003
mechanism, people don't know what to produce and when and in what quantities.

389
00:23:03,413 --> 00:23:07,753
So it's the literal opposite of the, of the number go up technology in Bitcoin.

390
00:23:08,163 --> 00:23:11,163
It's not, it's everything go down technology, like, uh,

391
00:23:11,493 --> 00:23:12,873
everything go to shit technology.

392
00:23:14,748 --> 00:23:20,988
No, I, uh, I'm glad you appre uh, uh, enjoy the, the two sats video series.

393
00:23:21,028 --> 00:23:23,968
Um, I haven't had a ton of time to dedicate to it.

394
00:23:24,398 --> 00:23:29,828
Um, but, uh, I've literally got like 23 of them as far as, like, projects

395
00:23:29,838 --> 00:23:31,328
started for, like, little ideas.

396
00:23:31,773 --> 00:23:35,713
Um, and I'm trying to figure out which one to do next, uh, and it's really hard

397
00:23:35,713 --> 00:23:40,293
to break a lot of these ideas down into, like, four minutes, like, cohesively,

398
00:23:40,613 --> 00:23:44,403
and that's kind of what I'm trying to do is sub four minutes as my goal.

399
00:23:44,913 --> 00:23:48,093
Um, if I could get into two, it would be perfect, but it's

400
00:23:48,093 --> 00:23:49,303
unrealistic for a lot of them.

401
00:23:50,163 --> 00:23:55,293
Uh, to really explain it, uh, but, uh, I've got one that I want to talk

402
00:23:55,303 --> 00:24:01,023
about because I think it's not really appreciated, um, is that there's

403
00:24:01,023 --> 00:24:08,383
a reason that technology doesn't make our lives better, that, that

404
00:24:08,383 --> 00:24:13,943
technology Think about it in the context of the last 30 or 40 years.

405
00:24:14,073 --> 00:24:21,193
Think about the absolutely incredible scale of innovation and drastic

406
00:24:21,193 --> 00:24:23,723
changes in our technological landscape.

407
00:24:24,683 --> 00:24:26,673
How is it that we don't have more time?

408
00:24:28,883 --> 00:24:29,803
We have no more time.

409
00:24:31,113 --> 00:24:31,283
more time.

410
00:24:31,303 --> 00:24:33,273
In fact, quite the opposite.

411
00:24:33,303 --> 00:24:35,043
A lot of people have less time.

412
00:24:35,693 --> 00:24:39,553
Technology has gotten drastically better, but all it has done

413
00:24:39,983 --> 00:24:42,383
is sped up the economy.

414
00:24:42,863 --> 00:24:45,633
It has not freed up the economy at all.

415
00:24:46,583 --> 00:24:51,353
And this is explicitly and only because we don't have sound money.

416
00:24:52,893 --> 00:24:55,273
This is a mechanism that has nothing to do with technology.

417
00:24:55,283 --> 00:24:59,123
Technology is actually doing its job, but what it is actually allowing

418
00:24:59,743 --> 00:25:02,173
is for the inflation to be worse.

419
00:25:02,548 --> 00:25:07,168
And I don't mean that in the context of like CPI, like price inflation, it's

420
00:25:07,188 --> 00:25:11,288
actually a massive deflationary force from the technological standpoint.

421
00:25:11,548 --> 00:25:16,928
I mean the amount of inflation that is needed or enabled that

422
00:25:16,928 --> 00:25:18,958
would actually keep prices stable.

423
00:25:20,183 --> 00:25:23,983
purpose of technology is that prices are supposed to fall.

424
00:25:24,943 --> 00:25:28,633
As things get better, and as technology gets better, it's supposed to fall.

425
00:25:29,063 --> 00:25:35,963
And if we actually had sound money, we would actually have just gargantuan

426
00:25:35,963 --> 00:25:38,363
amounts more time at our disposal.

427
00:25:38,373 --> 00:25:40,627
Like, we would have our leisure.

428
00:25:41,108 --> 00:25:46,598
To make decisions, or to change what we want to do, and it wouldn't matter

429
00:25:46,608 --> 00:25:50,638
that our job got automated away, because that would be better for us.

430
00:25:50,758 --> 00:25:54,688
At the exact same time that it got automated away, what we got paid all

431
00:25:54,698 --> 00:25:57,638
year is also 10 percent more valuable.

432
00:25:58,048 --> 00:26:03,578
So, you'd actually, you'd be constantly ahead of the game every single time

433
00:26:03,638 --> 00:26:05,288
it appeared that there was a fallback.

434
00:26:05,598 --> 00:26:08,958
Whereas what we have with inflation, when you're printing money and

435
00:26:08,988 --> 00:26:12,528
rushing to catch up, wages are always the last thing to move.

436
00:26:13,338 --> 00:26:17,298
Wages, salaries, they are literally referred to, even in shit fiat

437
00:26:17,338 --> 00:26:21,248
economics, they are referred to as sticky prices, because they are the

438
00:26:21,258 --> 00:26:26,068
slowest moving, longest contractual obligations in the economy.

439
00:26:26,068 --> 00:26:30,208
Therefore, it's weird, and it's a difficult thing to change them.

440
00:26:30,428 --> 00:26:33,198
It's extremely easy to change the price of a coffee.

441
00:26:33,788 --> 00:26:36,668
In five hours, change the price of gas.

442
00:26:36,798 --> 00:26:38,358
You can see it happen live.

443
00:26:38,368 --> 00:26:40,468
You can pull into the gas station and watch that thing

444
00:26:40,468 --> 00:26:42,608
tick up a penny, two pennies.

445
00:26:42,758 --> 00:26:44,928
Like, they change it immediately.

446
00:26:45,148 --> 00:26:48,018
As soon as the commodity changes that they have to purchase,

447
00:26:48,118 --> 00:26:49,688
the price of the good changes.

448
00:26:50,028 --> 00:26:54,238
Your wages will take a year to catch up to that, at best, if you're

449
00:26:54,248 --> 00:27:00,478
lucky, which means that you are always racing back to zero under

450
00:27:00,478 --> 00:27:05,038
inflation, under a fiat system, whereas literally the exact opposite is true.

451
00:27:05,763 --> 00:27:06,323
Occurs.

452
00:27:06,893 --> 00:27:10,753
Your wages stay where they are for a year while the price

453
00:27:10,793 --> 00:27:13,223
ticks down during inflation.

454
00:27:13,793 --> 00:27:19,083
Which means that you're in a permanently ahead of the game even if you do nothing.

455
00:27:19,333 --> 00:27:23,823
Even if you do not change or better your situation, you are benefiting.

456
00:27:23,833 --> 00:27:27,823
It's literally, it's literally the perfect analogy are those

457
00:27:27,823 --> 00:27:29,863
stupid sidewalks in the airport.

458
00:27:30,953 --> 00:27:35,813
Is fiat is going the wrong way on the sidewalk at all times.

459
00:27:36,108 --> 00:27:39,188
And if you stop or do anything, if you're not moving forward, you

460
00:27:39,188 --> 00:27:40,398
are literally moving backwards.

461
00:27:41,268 --> 00:27:47,858
And you only get to move genuinely forward, forward in space, in a realistic

462
00:27:47,858 --> 00:27:52,678
sense, if you are running faster, then the moving sidewalk is going the other

463
00:27:52,678 --> 00:27:55,768
way, and you also don't know how fast it's going to be moving at any one point

464
00:27:55,768 --> 00:27:59,948
in time, it'll just get really fast suddenly, and you'll have to sprint,

465
00:28:00,468 --> 00:28:04,338
whereas Bitcoin, or just sound money in general, is literally on the moving

466
00:28:04,338 --> 00:28:06,898
sidewalk that is moving in the direction that you're supposed to be going.

467
00:28:08,528 --> 00:28:11,128
If you are walking forward, you're making real progress.

468
00:28:11,918 --> 00:28:15,668
And, if you aren't walking forward, you're still making progress, because

469
00:28:15,848 --> 00:28:20,198
everybody else is, and you get to share it with the foundation of the money.

470
00:28:21,098 --> 00:28:24,758
It's so crazy, it literally is the difference between society at each

471
00:28:24,758 --> 00:28:29,318
other's throats, competing for resources that are constantly depleting, or

472
00:28:29,318 --> 00:28:32,848
society in cooperation, and everybody benefiting at the same fucking time.

473
00:28:32,988 --> 00:28:36,688
It is the exact same thing that everybody pontificates, and gives some bullshit.

474
00:28:36,878 --> 00:28:40,598
Bullshit speech about how we're gonna make society have everybody work together,

475
00:28:40,728 --> 00:28:43,408
and then they do it by slitting each other's throats and putting a gun to

476
00:28:43,408 --> 00:28:44,888
your head and stealing all of your shit.

477
00:28:44,978 --> 00:28:47,568
And it's like, well, if you just stop fucking with everything and

478
00:28:47,568 --> 00:28:50,738
putting fraud at the base of the entire system, well, guess what?

479
00:28:50,738 --> 00:28:52,258
It would just happen naturally.

480
00:28:52,418 --> 00:28:55,248
Because, turns out, Bitcoin points out the obvious.

481
00:28:55,308 --> 00:28:57,768
That things are a whole lot better if we just fucking cooperate.

482
00:28:58,587 --> 00:28:58,797
Yeah.

483
00:28:58,797 --> 00:29:02,457
I, I love, I love the passion, uh, of the delivery guy.

484
00:29:02,457 --> 00:29:06,597
Like, like, and this is why I love the my two SATs videos because of the

485
00:29:06,597 --> 00:29:08,577
passion of the delivery of the message.

486
00:29:08,957 --> 00:29:13,157
Because you can tell that it's, it's heartfelt and like this is, um.

487
00:29:13,282 --> 00:29:14,482
It usually comes with cursing.

488
00:29:14,692 --> 00:29:18,872
I I have time to bleep it out in my I have time to cut it out in my two sats.

489
00:29:19,072 --> 00:29:19,602
But, uh,

490
00:29:19,632 --> 00:29:21,762
Yeah, we don't fucking curse on this show, man.

491
00:29:21,762 --> 00:29:22,722
We don't fucking curse.

492
00:29:22,992 --> 00:29:23,302
yeah?

493
00:29:25,032 --> 00:29:30,292
So, so, so the thing is, uh, there's a, one of the chapters in the Clown

494
00:29:30,292 --> 00:29:35,592
World book, uh, starts by, by asking the question, and this, this is very

495
00:29:35,592 --> 00:29:37,592
much tied to this whole phenomenon.

496
00:29:38,347 --> 00:29:43,937
It asks the question, uh, if you practice do it, doing something over and over

497
00:29:43,937 --> 00:29:49,477
again, do you usually get better at that task or worse at doing that task?

498
00:29:49,997 --> 00:29:51,197
And the answer is obvious.

499
00:29:51,197 --> 00:29:54,037
Like for most people, if they practice, they get better.

500
00:29:54,117 --> 00:29:56,147
Like, yeah, if I practice.

501
00:29:56,712 --> 00:30:02,772
Playing Beethoven on piano, I might still be shit, but I'm better than I used to be.

502
00:30:03,092 --> 00:30:07,672
Like, and this is the thing, the follow up question to that question

503
00:30:07,682 --> 00:30:12,232
that nobody asks themselves is then, why are prices going up then?

504
00:30:13,472 --> 00:30:15,092
because if we, if we practice

505
00:30:15,312 --> 00:30:16,032
way to frame it.

506
00:30:16,032 --> 00:30:18,552
And it was like in the opening paragraph or whatever, just to, to

507
00:30:18,552 --> 00:30:20,352
set the stage for that whole chapter.

508
00:30:20,352 --> 00:30:21,042
Which one was that one?

509
00:30:21,102 --> 00:30:21,492
What was that?

510
00:30:21,552 --> 00:30:21,912
What was the

511
00:30:22,077 --> 00:30:24,597
It was one of the latter chapters, I think, but I think

512
00:30:24,597 --> 00:30:26,007
that's, that's the gist of it.

513
00:31:26,272 --> 00:31:27,262
So, yeah.

514
00:31:27,322 --> 00:31:31,372
Uh, I'm, I'm, we are gonna take the opportunity of course, of, uh, um,

515
00:31:32,212 --> 00:31:36,622
as asking you what you thought about the book and if you, what your main

516
00:31:36,622 --> 00:31:41,512
takeaways are and what, what, uh, how this differs from my previous books

517
00:31:41,512 --> 00:31:43,712
and what, what, what, what's your

518
00:31:43,717 --> 00:31:45,667
does it differ from previous books?

519
00:31:45,697 --> 00:31:45,937
Hmm.

520
00:31:45,937 --> 00:31:46,177
That's a

521
00:31:46,272 --> 00:31:49,062
forget that, then just, just your general thoughts.

522
00:31:49,347 --> 00:31:50,397
Well, I'll, I'll think on that one.

523
00:31:50,397 --> 00:31:52,797
I'll, I'll let that one, I'll let that one simmer for a minute.

524
00:31:52,797 --> 00:31:54,117
May maybe we'll come back to it.

525
00:31:54,902 --> 00:31:59,682
Um, I love the book, obviously love the book, um, I've, I've always, I've

526
00:31:59,682 --> 00:32:04,402
always like, I've always had a thing for your writing, um, and I love that

527
00:32:04,462 --> 00:32:09,412
Luke has been added in on this one to, to piece this together, and, uh, what

528
00:32:09,412 --> 00:32:13,882
you said towards the, I think you said this at the end, in the, the postface,

529
00:32:13,892 --> 00:32:19,287
if I'm not mistaken, Um, but how, like, Luke did a good job of giving it

530
00:32:19,297 --> 00:32:24,637
structure, and, and putting it together in almost, almost kind of a story fashion.

531
00:32:24,667 --> 00:32:29,167
Like, like, it, the pieces, the, uh, puzzle, puzzle's probably

532
00:32:29,167 --> 00:32:33,577
the better analogy, is the pieces put together really well.

533
00:32:33,802 --> 00:32:35,172
To end up with a picture.

534
00:32:35,572 --> 00:32:39,512
And with the picture that I think you were trying to illustrate really well.

535
00:32:39,892 --> 00:32:43,202
Um, and, uh, but absolutely love the book.

536
00:32:43,302 --> 00:32:45,332
Probably my biggest takeaway,

537
00:32:48,322 --> 00:32:52,252
it's hard to say, because I, I'm, I'm gonna mix everything with previous books.

538
00:32:52,252 --> 00:32:57,122
It's hard to separate out this one from the entire, the entire

539
00:32:57,122 --> 00:32:59,492
work, the, the entire set of works.

540
00:33:00,202 --> 00:33:05,960
But I think, going back to the point that you just made about, uh, or the

541
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:12,440
analogy that you just made on if you practice at something, does it get better?

542
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:19,580
Why doesn't this, why doesn't this result in falling prices?

543
00:33:20,540 --> 00:33:24,080
I think one of the best things about this book is how well you've put

544
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,170
together, and this is what I've tried really, really hard to do in my two

545
00:33:27,170 --> 00:33:31,400
sats videos, and I want to continue to do in my two sats videos, is

546
00:33:31,410 --> 00:33:33,750
taking something that's very obvious.

547
00:33:34,585 --> 00:33:37,035
And attaching it to something very difficult.

548
00:33:37,915 --> 00:33:40,635
Like, very not obvious for most people.

549
00:33:41,025 --> 00:33:45,745
And, and you can't, you hit that, you guys hit that in basically

550
00:33:45,745 --> 00:33:47,305
every single chapter, right?

551
00:33:47,365 --> 00:33:52,825
Is you start with, this is, this is the simple idea that you know.

552
00:33:53,485 --> 00:33:56,175
Like, talking to the readers, like, you know this is true.

553
00:33:56,335 --> 00:33:57,515
You know this is true.

554
00:33:58,095 --> 00:34:00,235
Wouldn't this have to follow?

555
00:34:01,185 --> 00:34:05,605
How on earth have we been led to believe that it's the obvious, I mean,

556
00:34:06,015 --> 00:34:10,865
that it's the opposite, when applied here, when you know this is true?

557
00:34:11,465 --> 00:34:19,160
And, Boiling down to an analogy or that like kind of pinpoint idea that

558
00:34:19,170 --> 00:34:25,230
makes that clear, as someone who tries to do that a lot, is very difficult.

559
00:34:25,290 --> 00:34:28,230
I know that that is very difficult, or at least it's very difficult for

560
00:34:28,240 --> 00:34:30,370
me, and I try really, really hard.

561
00:34:30,630 --> 00:34:36,790
So, that's probably my biggest takeaway with this book is, is how well, um,

562
00:34:36,790 --> 00:34:41,670
I've probably got like 7 or 8 like solid highlights from this book that

563
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:45,270
are, uh, purple highlights which I, I refer to as, I'm gonna come back

564
00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:47,330
and I'm gonna post this somewhere on Twitter probably at some point.

565
00:34:47,610 --> 00:34:52,460
Um, and, uh, I think pretty much every single one of them is an

566
00:34:52,460 --> 00:34:54,040
example of something like that.

567
00:34:54,100 --> 00:34:58,470
Where there's an extremely, like a very obvious or intuitive

568
00:35:01,455 --> 00:35:05,285
When you apply it in the right way to the larger economic idea, or

569
00:35:05,285 --> 00:35:11,585
the, the, this is what happens in clown world, why would that happen?

570
00:35:12,135 --> 00:35:16,055
How could it possibly be that this is naturally occurring, and

571
00:35:16,055 --> 00:35:18,715
then breaking down in the rest of the chapter why it's not?

572
00:35:19,085 --> 00:35:20,465
Like this, it's just not natural.

573
00:35:20,555 --> 00:35:24,595
And what you've missed is that this, this incredibly important piece of

574
00:35:24,605 --> 00:35:26,575
the equation is turned upside down.

575
00:35:27,085 --> 00:35:31,615
Um, and I think that, that is, which is funny because what you're doing

576
00:35:31,615 --> 00:35:35,175
is you're taking a good idea, a solid idea, or a really foundational

577
00:35:35,795 --> 00:35:38,145
idea, and you're flipping it over and then you're explaining clown world.

578
00:35:38,335 --> 00:35:41,565
So it's funny, you're taking the inverse of an obvious idea in order

579
00:35:41,565 --> 00:35:42,985
to explain why clown world exists.

580
00:35:44,565 --> 00:35:46,425
Which is Bitcoin the inverse of clown world.

581
00:35:48,045 --> 00:35:48,715
Exactly.

582
00:35:49,495 --> 00:35:52,965
I mean, I can, I can, uh, identify with so much of that.

583
00:35:52,985 --> 00:35:58,635
It is very difficult for me to, to, to take this simple idea and to

584
00:35:58,635 --> 00:36:00,885
explain a more complicated subject.

585
00:36:01,315 --> 00:36:04,705
But I think that's at the core of what all I don't know how

586
00:36:04,705 --> 00:36:07,575
explanatory creative things are.

587
00:36:07,635 --> 00:36:11,165
Like when, whether it's popular science or anything else.

588
00:36:11,325 --> 00:36:16,915
Like, you have to sort of take it back to first principles and take it back, like,

589
00:36:16,935 --> 00:36:18,685
take a helicopter view of the problem.

590
00:36:18,695 --> 00:36:23,235
Like, this is true and this is true, so therefore, and why

591
00:36:23,245 --> 00:36:24,515
the fuck is it this way then?

592
00:36:24,675 --> 00:36:27,035
Well, it isn't, but you're pretending it is.

593
00:36:27,235 --> 00:36:31,630
Like, so, so, so that's, that's, um, No, I love to hear that.

594
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:32,550
It's great.

595
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:33,750
And it ties back to,

596
00:36:35,940 --> 00:36:40,920
when you, like in the beginning of this show, when you passionately describe the

597
00:36:40,930 --> 00:36:46,900
Friedman ish four quadrants, I realize that that's the gist of the book, really.

598
00:36:47,175 --> 00:36:47,485
Yum.

599
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:48,450
It's,

600
00:36:48,635 --> 00:36:49,825
It's explaining that in a bunch of

601
00:36:49,850 --> 00:36:52,510
yeah, it's the TLDR of our book.

602
00:36:53,045 --> 00:36:53,435
Yeah.

603
00:36:54,090 --> 00:36:57,860
Yeah, no, it all comes down to the same.

604
00:36:58,210 --> 00:37:01,520
I mean you can, you can describe Bitcoin in so many ways and you can

605
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:07,080
describe it in, uh, describe the underlying problem in so many ways,

606
00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:13,355
but at the end of the day, it's It's the same underlying problem that we are

607
00:37:13,355 --> 00:37:15,675
being stolen from by counterfeiters.

608
00:37:15,725 --> 00:37:20,705
And if we weren't, then we would all be better off and

609
00:37:20,745 --> 00:37:22,915
at an ever accelerating pace.

610
00:37:23,460 --> 00:37:28,600
Uh, which is what Bitcoin has blatantly pointed out to everyone who has

611
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,190
understood it to a sufficient degree.

612
00:37:31,990 --> 00:37:35,870
Uh, and no, that's, that's it.

613
00:37:37,575 --> 00:37:44,645
if I had to, if I had to say for my, my biggest takeaway on how it's different

614
00:37:44,805 --> 00:37:53,465
from your other works is I think each chapter, like, like with both Sovereignty

615
00:37:53,865 --> 00:37:59,605
Through Mathematics and Independence Reimagined, um, I feel like because these

616
00:37:59,605 --> 00:38:06,820
are more Bitcoin specific rather than the Praxeology book, um, is You do a

617
00:38:06,820 --> 00:38:12,400
good job of hitting, like, main ideas for each chapter, but I think these are tied

618
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:18,010
together in this way, and this is probably Luke's fault, um, is these are tied

619
00:38:18,010 --> 00:38:24,620
together in a sequence better, where not only does each chapter cover, like, The

620
00:38:24,620 --> 00:38:31,340
ground of a really strong idea, but each chapter builds on the last one and then

621
00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:37,310
consecutively, you know, kind of like a, you know, your final exam is all of them.

622
00:38:37,510 --> 00:38:42,660
Like, it does a good job of building up as you read, uh, rather than having

623
00:38:42,660 --> 00:38:46,280
standalone and then just trying to wrap up or something, you know, maybe like,

624
00:38:46,450 --> 00:38:49,920
that's probably the biggest takeaway on how it's different or how it felt

625
00:38:49,930 --> 00:38:51,160
different while I was reading it.

626
00:38:51,930 --> 00:38:56,160
No, very happy to hear that, because that was the main, one of our main goals with

627
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,010
this one, was to make it more coherent.

628
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,360
So, so, no, very, very happy to hear that.

629
00:39:02,477 --> 00:39:04,637
I'm glad I got to do the audio, man, as always.

630
00:39:04,947 --> 00:39:06,657
No, I'm super happy you did.

631
00:39:09,817 --> 00:39:14,247
Speaking of Bitcoin, and more specifically Bitcoin, and this

632
00:39:14,607 --> 00:39:16,787
give a shit matrix, and everything.

633
00:39:16,977 --> 00:39:23,247
Like, I'm curious to take Your take on the whole spam debate and the attack

634
00:39:23,247 --> 00:39:31,057
vectors on Bitcoin and attacks on layer twos and whatever like because for myself

635
00:39:31,057 --> 00:39:34,977
I've become more and more of a monetary maximalist and I even cringe when I

636
00:39:34,977 --> 00:39:39,477
hear this that they're timestamping the Guatemala election on the timeshame.

637
00:39:39,487 --> 00:39:40,277
Don't do that!

638
00:39:41,857 --> 00:39:44,527
This shouldn't be filled with anything arbitrary like

639
00:39:44,577 --> 00:39:50,907
I would say that's different because the, the purpose of the global timestamp

640
00:39:50,917 --> 00:39:55,797
server is literally just to have an order of events, like as a chronological

641
00:39:55,797 --> 00:40:00,977
history, and explicitly the entire thing is a hash, which means that basically

642
00:40:00,977 --> 00:40:02,542
the transaction isn't even a hash.

643
00:40:02,752 --> 00:40:08,462
Bigger than just a normal transaction like the way the only thing like simple the

644
00:40:08,462 --> 00:40:14,072
way simple proof is working with Carlinos and everything that they're doing is the

645
00:40:14,072 --> 00:40:21,392
most efficient means of getting that value out of it possible and Like literally

646
00:40:21,392 --> 00:40:27,892
you're talking about tens of thousands in this tree of hashes that exist in one

647
00:40:28,082 --> 00:40:30,717
hash Like, and it is stamped one time.

648
00:40:30,797 --> 00:40:34,167
Like, that is the only way, and it gives you all of the proof

649
00:40:34,197 --> 00:40:38,387
that you could possibly need for anything underneath that.

650
00:40:38,997 --> 00:40:44,277
As soon as you start extending this out to things like selling constellations

651
00:40:44,277 --> 00:40:49,007
in the sky, which is the equivalent of stamping a picture, a JPEG, into

652
00:40:49,007 --> 00:40:52,217
a, into a blockchain and then selling it to somebody like they own it.

653
00:40:53,217 --> 00:40:57,207
It becomes so unbelievably, both useless.

654
00:40:57,797 --> 00:41:03,827
Because it doesn't even give, it doesn't even give the, the actual capability or

655
00:41:03,827 --> 00:41:07,657
the actual utility that it supposedly is selling, like it doesn't even

656
00:41:07,657 --> 00:41:11,417
exist, you can't own something in the blockchain, it doesn't move with you,

657
00:41:11,767 --> 00:41:15,297
it doesn't, you don't transact the JPEG and then put the JPEG somewhere

658
00:41:15,297 --> 00:41:18,997
else, you literally, literally there is no connection to it, it is, it is

659
00:41:19,037 --> 00:41:24,387
like selling somebody, um, the moon, Just being like, I sold you the moon.

660
00:41:24,987 --> 00:41:27,727
You could just as well just say, well, I'm going to do it this way, and

661
00:41:27,727 --> 00:41:28,977
I'm going to sell you the moon, too.

662
00:41:29,437 --> 00:41:31,057
Like, you could have somebody else do it, and they're just like, oh,

663
00:41:31,057 --> 00:41:33,597
well, I accept this guy's moon.

664
00:41:33,957 --> 00:41:35,177
This guy says I own the moon.

665
00:41:35,577 --> 00:41:37,557
It's like, well, the other guy says I own the moon.

666
00:41:37,557 --> 00:41:38,817
It's like, well, it just exists there.

667
00:41:38,857 --> 00:41:40,067
It's on everybody's blockchain.

668
00:41:40,097 --> 00:41:41,887
I can look it up on my computer.

669
00:41:42,827 --> 00:41:43,617
It's on my node.

670
00:41:44,037 --> 00:41:46,347
Whether I want it to be there or not, I wish I could delete it,

671
00:41:47,732 --> 00:41:48,402
Yeah, that's the thing.

672
00:41:48,412 --> 00:41:51,592
You're not only selling the star in the Andromeda galaxy, you're

673
00:41:51,612 --> 00:41:53,922
also forcing people to look at it.

674
00:41:54,682 --> 00:41:58,392
Like, you're forcing people to aim their telescopes at that specific star.

675
00:41:58,657 --> 00:42:03,557
and forcing people to, to store it, for, for no reason, like, you just, you just,

676
00:42:03,587 --> 00:42:08,867
it's so, it's so nonsensical, the, the way, I still, I still love my analogy,

677
00:42:08,867 --> 00:42:15,927
and I haven't heard anybody, even in support of it, uh, to, argue against the

678
00:42:15,927 --> 00:42:19,267
analogy, which I find interesting, Um, and I think it's a perfect, a perfect

679
00:42:19,267 --> 00:42:21,877
example is, it's pooping in the park.

680
00:42:22,607 --> 00:42:26,357
It's taking a public space and wasting resources and making somebody

681
00:42:26,357 --> 00:42:27,407
else have to clean up your shit.

682
00:42:28,607 --> 00:42:30,347
That's, that's what it is in my opinion.

683
00:42:30,387 --> 00:42:35,127
Now, in the context of like filtering, like, if you want to filter your

684
00:42:35,147 --> 00:42:39,152
mempool or your node and you don't want to include it in your, um, Mining

685
00:42:39,152 --> 00:42:41,452
blocks, more power to you, 100%.

686
00:42:41,632 --> 00:42:46,202
In fact, I'm, I'll be, when I turn the miners on for the winter, um, I'll be

687
00:42:46,202 --> 00:42:48,902
pointing it at ocean, uh, the ocean pool.

688
00:42:48,902 --> 00:42:54,162
So, uh, but at the same time, I don't think there's a concrete way.

689
00:42:54,742 --> 00:43:00,632
All you can do is disincentivize, and you can't really stop it

690
00:43:00,652 --> 00:43:06,417
because, you know, the whole idea is If mining is decentralized, you

691
00:43:06,417 --> 00:43:07,537
won't really be able to stop it.

692
00:43:08,027 --> 00:43:13,317
If mempool policy is decentralized, you won't really be able to stop it.

693
00:43:13,477 --> 00:43:17,027
And it'll get in, and it's, whatever, they'll pay fees.

694
00:43:17,247 --> 00:43:21,057
Um, and it's not, it's not the end of the world, but, I mean, I'm with you.

695
00:43:21,057 --> 00:43:22,257
I'm a monetary maximalist.

696
00:43:22,257 --> 00:43:24,627
It's a, it's a global decentralized monetary network.

697
00:43:24,627 --> 00:43:25,557
The idea of using it

698
00:43:29,492 --> 00:43:35,442
Another analogy, I like the pooping in the park, but I think it also kind

699
00:43:35,442 --> 00:43:39,572
of obscures the value of it because, you know, a park is just a nice

700
00:43:39,572 --> 00:43:41,262
place to have, it's not a necessity.

701
00:43:42,012 --> 00:43:47,452
Whereas Bitcoin is a necessity, like sound money is a does society live or die

702
00:43:48,062 --> 00:43:49,782
kind of thing on a long enough timeline.

703
00:43:50,602 --> 00:43:59,922
And so, It's like, imagine is that you had a machine that could feed, that could, in

704
00:43:59,922 --> 00:44:04,872
some incredibly unique and perfect way, it could feed people who were hungry.

705
00:44:05,802 --> 00:44:07,722
But you have an extremely limited

706
00:44:09,852 --> 00:44:14,882
an extremely limited capacity for people to move to, to operate this machinery.

707
00:44:14,882 --> 00:44:19,752
But it turns out that if you kind of like flip the machine on its side

708
00:44:20,332 --> 00:44:25,182
and run it through like ten times, it would have been for feeding people.

709
00:44:25,872 --> 00:44:28,052
Somehow, you can make a photocopy of your ass.

710
00:44:28,847 --> 00:44:30,867
And you can get a printed picture of your ass.

711
00:44:31,597 --> 00:44:35,267
And then, while people are in line trying to get food, a whole bunch

712
00:44:35,267 --> 00:44:38,767
of people crowd in line so that they can get photocopies of their ass

713
00:44:38,777 --> 00:44:40,357
from the really important machine.

714
00:44:40,747 --> 00:44:45,047
And the ass photocopy is more valuable because it's through

715
00:44:45,047 --> 00:44:46,477
this machine that they can prove.

716
00:44:46,627 --> 00:44:49,907
And then they brag about, this literally took ten times as many

717
00:44:49,907 --> 00:44:52,407
resources to get this picture of my ass.

718
00:44:52,687 --> 00:44:53,737
And then I'm gonna sell it.

719
00:44:54,097 --> 00:44:58,627
I'm gonna sell it because look how, look how I wasted the resources of this

720
00:44:58,657 --> 00:45:04,047
incredible, like, monumental machine that we have created, and everybody in line

721
00:45:04,057 --> 00:45:10,347
waiting to eat is standing there going, Why the fuck am I in line behind this?

722
00:45:10,877 --> 00:45:16,257
Why is this in, why am I waiting to eat because of this dumb piece

723
00:45:16,257 --> 00:45:18,747
of shit photocopying his ass?

724
00:45:19,177 --> 00:45:22,657
And that's essentially what it does, because this is a global bidding war

725
00:45:22,667 --> 00:45:25,737
for space in this, in this machine.

726
00:45:26,237 --> 00:45:33,682
Um, and I think to brag, it's literally, you're taking a dump in a park, and then

727
00:45:33,682 --> 00:45:37,772
you're taking a selfie with it, and then you're being like, look how cool I am.

728
00:45:38,602 --> 00:45:43,022
And somebody else has to come by and clean that up, because you clearly,

729
00:45:43,032 --> 00:45:47,822
not only are you a poor steward, you're an arrogant poor steward.

730
00:45:48,352 --> 00:45:50,232
Of our collective resources.

731
00:45:50,232 --> 00:45:51,442
This is a public good.

732
00:45:53,192 --> 00:45:56,422
I mean, in a, as cleanly as I can say it, go fuck yourself.

733
00:45:57,332 --> 00:46:00,612
Like, there's nothing I can do about it, and you're still gonna go take a picture

734
00:46:00,622 --> 00:46:04,892
of you with a shit, but I'm gonna make, I'm, I will do whatever I can to make

735
00:46:04,892 --> 00:46:08,462
you feel like a piece of shit, because you are worth less than the piece of

736
00:46:08,462 --> 00:46:12,532
shit that you, you, you crapped out in the park, and then took a selfie with.

737
00:46:13,792 --> 00:46:14,882
Yeah, couldn't agree more.

738
00:46:14,932 --> 00:46:19,682
Uh, like, and As you say, there's very little one can do on a technical

739
00:46:19,692 --> 00:46:25,462
level, except, you know Point your, uh, your minors at the ocean or something,

740
00:46:25,532 --> 00:46:31,282
something similar, something at least transparent, but, uh, I would say the

741
00:46:31,282 --> 00:46:33,352
thing we can do is educate people.

742
00:46:33,862 --> 00:46:39,742
Uh, so, and one of the more important things here is to educate people on

743
00:46:39,752 --> 00:46:43,332
why the satoshi is totally different from anything else on the internet.

744
00:46:43,392 --> 00:46:44,912
Because it doesn't live on the internet.

745
00:46:44,932 --> 00:46:48,022
It doesn't exist on the internet, and it exists in people's heads.

746
00:46:48,452 --> 00:46:51,677
At the end of the day, that's what, that's where the Power

747
00:46:51,677 --> 00:46:53,807
of moving the satoshi resides.

748
00:46:53,867 --> 00:46:55,887
So the satoshi is just a measurement stick.

749
00:46:56,157 --> 00:47:01,457
So my analogy is, like, there is no such thing as a rare satoshi.

750
00:47:01,757 --> 00:47:05,717
Just as, like, a centimeter does not become more rare just

751
00:47:05,717 --> 00:47:07,247
because I measure my dick with it.

752
00:47:07,607 --> 00:47:09,117
And that's what these people are doing.

753
00:47:09,597 --> 00:47:14,277
Like, and forcing everyone to look at their dick measurements.

754
00:47:14,347 --> 00:47:15,017
Yeah,

755
00:47:15,989 --> 00:47:16,599
That's about right.

756
00:47:16,849 --> 00:47:17,619
That sounds about right.

757
00:47:18,139 --> 00:47:18,429
Yeah.

758
00:47:18,929 --> 00:47:19,219
So that's,

759
00:47:19,404 --> 00:47:21,294
yeah, no, no, no, no, you're American.

760
00:47:21,314 --> 00:47:22,014
I mean inch.

761
00:47:22,924 --> 00:47:26,094
Do you know, do you know, by the way, why a penis can never

762
00:47:26,094 --> 00:47:27,714
get longer than 12 inches?

763
00:47:29,849 --> 00:47:30,469
I don't know.

764
00:47:30,489 --> 00:47:31,599
Luke apparently does.

765
00:47:32,934 --> 00:47:34,084
It becomes a foot!

766
00:47:36,136 --> 00:47:37,926
Yeah, I've heard this one a few times.

767
00:47:38,921 --> 00:47:44,941
Oh man, that is, that is, that is dad joke, that is dad joke perfected.

768
00:47:46,736 --> 00:47:51,866
You know, the one thing on this particular front that I think, I mean, I agree

769
00:47:51,866 --> 00:47:57,396
about the education is the most important thing here, but what I don't like is

770
00:47:57,396 --> 00:48:02,281
when people on Twitter, and I mean, I've pretty much switched off Twitter

771
00:48:02,281 --> 00:48:06,891
and gone pretty, pretty much, I only scroll Nostr these days, and that's been

772
00:48:06,901 --> 00:48:07,441
much same.

773
00:48:07,521 --> 00:48:07,881
Yeah.

774
00:48:08,141 --> 00:48:10,321
good for my mental health, man, like seriously.

775
00:48:10,791 --> 00:48:11,497
But just to wrap

776
00:48:11,581 --> 00:48:11,881
But we're

777
00:48:11,941 --> 00:48:19,161
maybe we switch over to Nostr for a bit, the thing is when there's some

778
00:48:19,161 --> 00:48:23,621
people in the Twitter space that basically make fun of anyone who It

779
00:48:23,651 --> 00:48:26,951
even advocates for doing stuff like what Ocean is doing, like, it's not

780
00:48:26,951 --> 00:48:31,781
gonna make any difference, and oh, look, filter bros, the fees are low, and it's

781
00:48:31,781 --> 00:48:33,441
like, well, no, but that's, that's not

782
00:48:33,451 --> 00:48:34,731
Okay, still gonna do it.

783
00:48:35,391 --> 00:48:38,561
exactly, and, and, and, uh, like, it's, it's permissionless,

784
00:48:38,561 --> 00:48:39,691
and I mean, I, I love,

785
00:48:39,791 --> 00:48:41,451
can feel good about themselves if they want.

786
00:48:41,921 --> 00:48:42,281
Yeah.

787
00:48:42,281 --> 00:48:44,981
And, and then there's these, there's been these breakdowns, like Bob

788
00:48:44,981 --> 00:48:48,761
Burnett has, has gone and looked at the, the, uh, the fees that he, he

789
00:48:48,761 --> 00:48:52,691
took in from, from comparing like a, an FPS pool, apparently a couple of

790
00:48:52,691 --> 00:48:54,401
fpp s pools, and he didn't name them.

791
00:48:54,401 --> 00:48:56,771
He, he's, he's not naming names and ocean.

792
00:48:57,101 --> 00:49:00,791
And the ocean miners paid out more over that, that period of time.

793
00:49:00,791 --> 00:49:02,351
And it wasn't a short period of time either.

794
00:49:02,351 --> 00:49:05,441
So it's like, there's something, there's something here.

795
00:49:05,501 --> 00:49:08,261
Uh, uh, mining pool transparency.

796
00:49:08,261 --> 00:49:11,051
I, I think that is, is kind of the real.

797
00:49:12,651 --> 00:49:17,501
Get everyone, uh, uh, out into the open, get everything out into the open and,

798
00:49:17,501 --> 00:49:21,091
uh, everything's done in a transparent way, then, then maybe we can all put

799
00:49:21,091 --> 00:49:24,861
cards on the table, and if you wanna go mine your dick butts, like, okay,

800
00:49:24,861 --> 00:49:29,881
fine, I'm not gonna like you, but, but it is the system as it exists, and so,

801
00:49:29,951 --> 00:49:32,351
you know, Marathon can go mine an M.

802
00:49:32,936 --> 00:49:34,836
Uh, and they're allowed to, currently.

803
00:49:34,876 --> 00:49:39,816
I wish it weren't the case, but, uh, since there's basically no alternative than to,

804
00:49:40,126 --> 00:49:45,226
basically a hard fork, as I understand it, uh, we're stuck with the system, so, it's

805
00:49:45,541 --> 00:49:51,101
a hundred percent sure there is even like a hard fork fix because I think it would

806
00:49:51,101 --> 00:49:52,921
just kind of change the methodology.

807
00:49:54,051 --> 00:49:58,121
That would have to be applied in order to get it to work.

808
00:49:58,201 --> 00:50:05,051
Um, but I think in a lot of ways, it's just kind of axiomatic that there's

809
00:50:05,051 --> 00:50:09,631
going to be ways to like, cause anybody who is making a block can construct

810
00:50:10,111 --> 00:50:11,741
the way the transactions go together.

811
00:52:07,778 --> 00:52:15,318
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, um, uh, I think the, the, um, the last point that I had

812
00:52:15,318 --> 00:52:20,598
on the, on the sort of the, the ordinals topic was that there are like two specific

813
00:52:20,608 --> 00:52:24,648
bugs that are actually being exploited, though, like for, for some of these

814
00:52:24,648 --> 00:52:31,128
things, like it's this, uh, this, uh, um, false if Like this just complete failure

815
00:52:31,128 --> 00:52:36,098
in logic that could just get sewn up and a lot of this stuff can't happen and then

816
00:52:36,178 --> 00:52:40,368
Stamps is exploiting something else like this bare multisig thing and it's so so

817
00:52:40,368 --> 00:52:45,628
Stamps is the worst, because it's explicitly And what's crazy is that they

818
00:52:45,628 --> 00:52:49,298
created it because Like, that was one of the things that, like, really got me.

819
00:52:49,328 --> 00:52:53,723
Is that They were legitimately bragging about the fact that they found something

820
00:52:53,753 --> 00:52:59,673
that is worse, and that was its only value, is that they, it's kind of like,

821
00:53:00,073 --> 00:53:02,613
it's kind of like finding out that if you ate a lot of Taco Bell, it's

822
00:53:02,613 --> 00:53:06,643
a whole lot harder to clean up the poop out of the park, and it's like,

823
00:53:06,663 --> 00:53:08,883
look, I can make diarrhea in the park.

824
00:53:09,413 --> 00:53:13,633
And, and this one's, this one's even more difficult, and now I'm going

825
00:53:13,633 --> 00:53:15,053
to take a selfie with this one.

826
00:53:15,353 --> 00:53:20,683
And, the, the stamps permanently bloat the UTXO set.

827
00:53:21,093 --> 00:53:27,113
Um, and there's not really anything to be done about it, except for, I

828
00:53:27,113 --> 00:53:29,788
mean, I guess, I guess at some point,

829
00:53:32,438 --> 00:53:33,888
I guess they're identifiable.

830
00:53:34,628 --> 00:53:39,618
So maybe you could just prune from your UTA, like manually prune on the

831
00:53:39,618 --> 00:53:41,648
client side, if I'm not mistaken.

832
00:53:41,998 --> 00:53:47,118
Um, but regardless, regardless, it's uh, the interesting thing about the

833
00:53:47,118 --> 00:53:52,778
whole FPPS versus Ocean, um, and I talked with Mechanic a lot about this,

834
00:53:52,778 --> 00:53:58,868
and it's kind of like mind blowing, is the FPPS is them just like basically.

835
00:53:59,218 --> 00:54:03,608
Apparently giving the bare minimum of what they think they'll have to pay

836
00:54:03,608 --> 00:54:07,568
out and that their spread is a lot bigger than they actually say it is.

837
00:54:08,128 --> 00:54:13,978
And ocean, I think it's a misunderstanding as well to just say that, oh, you

838
00:54:13,978 --> 00:54:15,488
use ocean because you want to filter.

839
00:54:15,768 --> 00:54:17,998
No, you use ocean because you want to be able to choose.

840
00:54:18,788 --> 00:54:21,978
It's because you actually want to be able to construct a block template, whereas

841
00:54:21,988 --> 00:54:26,178
you're just doing whatever the mining pool wants to do in the other situation.

842
00:54:26,378 --> 00:54:29,798
Like, Ocean, by the they've set it up now that you can just choose.

843
00:54:29,798 --> 00:54:35,568
You can you can still mine ordinals, and well, ordinals is not the thing,

844
00:54:35,598 --> 00:54:37,888
um, you can mine inscriptions.

845
00:54:38,253 --> 00:54:40,413
And stamps, and you know, whatever.

846
00:54:41,143 --> 00:54:43,003
If you want, they have a filter for you.

847
00:54:43,443 --> 00:54:49,753
Like, they're not even, if you want to use theirs, the default filter, um, or

848
00:54:49,753 --> 00:54:52,283
the default template is with the filter.

849
00:54:52,493 --> 00:54:54,403
But they're not even telling you that you can't.

850
00:54:54,753 --> 00:54:58,023
Or for enforcing it on anybody, they're literally just trying to decentralize

851
00:54:58,023 --> 00:55:01,633
this process, so that people can choose, because they think if people can

852
00:55:01,633 --> 00:55:08,893
choose, most will choose to, shockingly, er, er, most will choose to do the

853
00:55:08,893 --> 00:55:13,183
filters, and the surprising fact of that is that you still end up making

854
00:55:13,183 --> 00:55:16,563
a higher payout with Ocean, because Ocean just isn't trying to screw you.

855
00:55:16,853 --> 00:55:22,688
The, the payouts are just, you know, are just probabilistic, they're based on the

856
00:55:22,688 --> 00:55:29,658
mining itself, and it's, it's more random, but it ends up being significant, like

857
00:55:29,658 --> 00:55:36,078
some of the stats, even for as small as they still are, um, to the point that he

858
00:55:36,088 --> 00:55:39,408
said he was talking to a, and I think he mentioned this in the first roundtable,

859
00:55:39,408 --> 00:55:44,633
maybe, But he was talking to a miner who is using them, a larger miner who

860
00:55:44,633 --> 00:55:50,143
is using them, and he asked, he's like, well, could you share this publicly

861
00:55:50,143 --> 00:55:54,843
or whatever, because they were making a pretty significant percentage above

862
00:55:54,843 --> 00:55:56,073
what they were making with the others.

863
00:55:56,383 --> 00:55:59,853
And he says, uh, would you, you know, be willing to share this out?

864
00:55:59,853 --> 00:56:04,803
And he said, sorry, but no, I don't want to tell other people because

865
00:56:05,533 --> 00:56:07,063
the gap will probably go away.

866
00:56:07,603 --> 00:56:10,603
Like, he says, I'm making more because other people don't

867
00:56:10,603 --> 00:56:11,653
know about this right now.

868
00:56:12,193 --> 00:56:17,033
So, I don't really have any good reason to spread the word on the fact that

869
00:56:17,033 --> 00:56:20,873
I have X percent more by using this.

870
00:56:21,243 --> 00:56:24,883
Um, and, and he, he, he said, you know, for the sake of privacy, I

871
00:56:24,883 --> 00:56:26,253
don't want to tell who that is.

872
00:56:26,753 --> 00:56:32,013
Um, but, that's, that's an in, that's an interesting point.

873
00:56:32,313 --> 00:56:35,043
So, uh, but I'll be turning my minors to him.

874
00:56:35,648 --> 00:56:38,558
I mean, I've set up with Oceanair, whatever, I just, it's just been too

875
00:56:38,558 --> 00:56:40,238
damn hot to run the things in the house.

876
00:56:41,158 --> 00:56:45,378
This is so damn interesting, like, uh, from so many perspectives.

877
00:56:45,378 --> 00:56:50,228
I guess the devil's advocate thing on the stamps would be that

878
00:56:50,728 --> 00:56:52,518
Bitcoin thrives when attacked.

879
00:56:52,528 --> 00:56:55,718
Like, we should attack it from all sorts of vectors and see what happens.

880
00:56:55,728 --> 00:56:58,678
So maybe this is the price we have to pay to get

881
00:56:58,768 --> 00:57:00,748
To get decentralized block templates?

882
00:57:01,248 --> 00:57:01,908
That would be great.

883
00:57:02,038 --> 00:57:02,318
Yeah.

884
00:57:02,623 --> 00:57:06,113
And maybe the trade off is worth only time can tell, you know.

885
00:57:06,363 --> 00:57:11,253
But it's also the thing, one thing that has bothered me when thinking about the

886
00:57:11,253 --> 00:57:16,663
game theory and attack vectors and such, is that you have this, among bitcoiners,

887
00:57:17,313 --> 00:57:22,853
that we're all incentivized to, to, we're not incentivized to be violent, to aggress

888
00:57:22,883 --> 00:57:27,338
against one another, because When you can't know, you cannot know how much,

889
00:57:27,388 --> 00:57:29,018
how many bitcoins another person has.

890
00:57:29,118 --> 00:57:30,468
Like, it's impossible.

891
00:57:30,978 --> 00:57:36,718
Uh, and therefore, attacking that person is always the, the worst choice.

892
00:57:36,768 --> 00:57:40,658
That if you have to choose between that and providing something of value back.

893
00:57:40,658 --> 00:57:43,238
So you extract the bitcoin by providing value back.

894
00:57:43,468 --> 00:57:46,998
So, so that's how it's so beautiful and promotes world peace and stuff.

895
00:57:47,338 --> 00:57:48,698
But it's not true for miners.

896
00:57:48,908 --> 00:57:51,678
Miners actually have an, an incentive to, at least

897
00:57:51,678 --> 00:57:53,558
theoretically, to attack one another.

898
00:57:54,408 --> 00:57:56,318
And this is like, am I getting this wrong?

899
00:57:56,338 --> 00:57:59,848
Is there a game theoretical thing here that I'm missing?

900
00:58:00,348 --> 00:58:05,928
Or are miners incentivized to, you know, covertly attack one another,

901
00:58:05,978 --> 00:58:12,228
uh, blow up, go into someone else's mining facility in a ninja suit and

902
00:58:12,228 --> 00:58:14,598
blow it up, and blame the third miner?

903
00:58:14,698 --> 00:58:17,859
Like, what do you, what's guys take?

904
00:58:18,895 --> 00:58:19,835
I mean, yeah, probably.

905
00:58:21,785 --> 00:58:27,280
Yeah, because miners are in, they are not in competition with, The

906
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,760
network, they are incentivized to protect the network because the

907
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,460
network defends and owns their payout.

908
00:58:33,940 --> 00:58:38,370
Or, you know, creates the rules and the value of how they get compensated.

909
00:58:39,020 --> 00:58:43,200
But they are in competition with each other in a zero sum game.

910
00:58:43,860 --> 00:58:50,270
Where the, the output versus the input is explicitly limited.

911
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:56,180
And, uh, and is purely competitive.

912
00:58:56,970 --> 00:59:04,465
Which is exactly why You it is, it is critical for the, the ecosystem

913
00:59:04,465 --> 00:59:10,862
or, or the mining, function itself to be as purely open as possible

914
00:59:10,892 --> 00:59:15,152
and as purely probabilistic as possible, that there is no.

915
00:59:15,817 --> 00:59:22,647
You know, MEV Advantage, or out of band, like, gaming of the system that can be

916
00:59:22,647 --> 00:59:28,197
done with how you order transactions, or in reordering transactions that

917
00:59:28,197 --> 00:59:29,977
have already been ordered, etc.

918
00:59:30,397 --> 00:59:35,307
Um, Where you can make more money on, and this is why, you know, expressivity in

919
00:59:35,307 --> 00:59:41,407
bitcoin is actually a potential and pretty significant risk, is that more capital

920
00:59:41,417 --> 00:59:45,957
could be made, um, or a significant portion of the capital could be made

921
00:59:45,967 --> 00:59:53,227
in just altering how transactions get into bitcoin rather than just Just kind

922
00:59:53,227 --> 00:59:57,567
of the very naive assumption of grab the thing with the most fee and stick

923
00:59:57,567 --> 00:59:59,967
it in the top of your block, you know.

924
01:00:00,467 --> 01:00:07,287
Um, and I actually just read a piece called, uh, Stop Calling It MEV by

925
01:00:07,537 --> 01:00:12,357
Matt Corallo, which I think does a good job of, uh, breaking down the

926
01:00:12,357 --> 01:00:14,737
concept, but it is very obscure.

927
01:00:14,737 --> 01:00:18,507
It's still really hard to kind of like pin down exactly what it's meant.

928
01:00:18,892 --> 01:00:25,002
Um, and I think the best thing is just to use Ethereum as a comparison, and one

929
01:00:25,002 --> 01:00:30,622
of the things that got me about Ethereum, I almost, I didn't believe it to the

930
01:00:30,622 --> 01:00:36,912
point, like I thought it was just FUD from Bitcorners that was exaggerated, um,

931
01:00:36,922 --> 01:00:41,182
because, you know, it's easy to just like, make up something that's really bad about

932
01:00:41,182 --> 01:00:46,147
Ethereum because, Ethereum is garbage, um, and it, the whole thing started as

933
01:00:46,147 --> 01:00:50,487
a scam, but I wanted to temper it and be like, no, there's no way this is true.

934
01:00:50,877 --> 01:00:52,337
This is like actually how it works.

935
01:00:52,797 --> 01:00:54,127
But staking is permissioned.

936
01:00:54,127 --> 01:00:57,947
And I don't think people realize that.

937
01:00:58,007 --> 01:01:01,697
Is that the current stakers have to allow you in.

938
01:01:01,697 --> 01:01:06,262
Like, Which is so fundamental, like,

939
01:01:08,872 --> 01:01:12,422
I don't know how they could possibly call that decentralized.

940
01:01:13,192 --> 01:01:19,462
Like, if I am mining my basement, I don't have to get somebody else to

941
01:01:19,462 --> 01:01:21,522
validate that those hashes are real.

942
01:01:22,282 --> 01:01:22,702
You know?

943
01:01:22,802 --> 01:01:29,322
Like, that's one of the most, like, core fundamental pieces of the entire puzzle of

944
01:01:29,322 --> 01:01:31,682
this being a global permissionless system.

945
01:01:32,032 --> 01:01:34,392
But not only do you have to have, like, What is it?

946
01:01:34,392 --> 01:01:39,512
32, 000 is some crazy amount of Ethereum to stake at all, but

947
01:01:39,512 --> 01:01:40,912
you can't just like turn it on.

948
01:01:41,272 --> 01:01:44,062
You have to get all of it, and you just have to assume that all of the other

949
01:01:44,062 --> 01:01:49,552
stakers are going to be, are gonna be like, yeah sure, in a zero sum competitive

950
01:01:49,552 --> 01:01:52,402
environment that they're gonna turn you, they're gonna add you to the mix.

951
01:01:53,652 --> 01:01:57,812
They're gonna dilute their portion of it by adding a new staker, and

952
01:01:57,852 --> 01:01:59,062
that's never gonna go sideways.

953
01:01:59,092 --> 01:01:59,922
That'll never work out!

954
01:02:00,192 --> 01:02:01,142
That'll never go bad!

955
01:02:01,832 --> 01:02:03,642
I just, I couldn't believe it!

956
01:02:03,662 --> 01:02:04,732
I could not believe it!

957
01:02:04,872 --> 01:02:07,892
I still wanna, I still wanna think that I'm wrong.

958
01:02:09,062 --> 01:02:10,602
Nobody's contested me on that.

959
01:02:11,887 --> 01:02:14,187
It sounds like politics, like

960
01:02:14,392 --> 01:02:15,172
Very much

961
01:02:15,437 --> 01:02:19,547
in nations, and it sounds like, at least with a bank, you and the

962
01:02:19,557 --> 01:02:23,557
bank and the government are in a 2 out of 3 multisig situation, right?

963
01:02:23,932 --> 01:02:24,282
Mm hmm.

964
01:02:24,717 --> 01:02:28,047
So if you and the bank decide that the money is yours, then,

965
01:02:29,097 --> 01:02:32,187
well, I guess the government could shut you down anyway, but if

966
01:02:32,232 --> 01:02:40,462
was about to say, it's a, it's a 2 out of 3 with a 1, uh, with a master key.

967
01:02:41,062 --> 01:02:45,512
So, the, the government, there, there is a 2 out of 3 relationship, but there is

968
01:02:45,522 --> 01:02:49,962
also a backdoor key from the government that can just basically nix all of it.

969
01:02:50,292 --> 01:02:55,532
Um, so, it's kind of like a hierarchy of keys, and it's mostly an abstracted two

970
01:02:55,532 --> 01:02:57,052
out of three that doesn't really exist.

971
01:02:57,502 --> 01:02:59,072
Um, but I see what you mean.

972
01:02:59,092 --> 01:02:59,902
I see what you mean.

973
01:03:01,562 --> 01:03:03,152
but it's still better than Ethereum.

974
01:03:03,392 --> 01:03:04,052
That's where I'm going.

975
01:03:04,372 --> 01:03:05,902
But it's still better than Ethereum.

976
01:03:06,982 --> 01:03:07,372
Yeah.

977
01:03:07,832 --> 01:03:08,572
That's funny.

978
01:03:10,472 --> 01:03:11,612
Ethereum is shit cubed.

979
01:03:12,092 --> 01:03:12,512
Yeah.

980
01:03:14,332 --> 01:03:18,372
I still just can't believe, I still just can't get past the 70 percent pre mine.

981
01:03:18,432 --> 01:03:18,662
I just

982
01:03:18,792 --> 01:03:22,812
No, and I can't, I can't believe so many people fucking fell for it and for such

983
01:03:22,812 --> 01:03:25,032
a long time and people still fall for it.

984
01:03:25,092 --> 01:03:27,162
Like they still think there's some value in that.

985
01:03:27,712 --> 01:03:31,502
and you know, like, people in Ethereum are like, nobody cares about that anymore.

986
01:03:31,512 --> 01:03:35,587
And it's like I don't care if nobody cares about that anymore.

987
01:03:36,332 --> 01:03:37,322
Yeah, that's the problem.

988
01:03:37,417 --> 01:03:39,627
understand that doesn't change the reality?

989
01:03:39,627 --> 01:03:40,917
That doesn't change what it means?

990
01:03:41,217 --> 01:03:43,267
That's like saying nobody cares about fiat money.

991
01:03:43,317 --> 01:03:45,657
Well, of course they don't, because they don't fucking understand it.

992
01:03:46,497 --> 01:03:49,567
But it still has consequences, it still means what it means.

993
01:03:49,807 --> 01:03:54,567
You could, like, it's such an appeal to It's like a bandwagon appeal.

994
01:03:54,857 --> 01:03:56,817
It's like, well nobody cares.

995
01:03:57,437 --> 01:04:02,967
It's like, it's like if we all lived in a giant building and the entire floor

996
01:04:03,207 --> 01:04:07,807
was the bottom floor and the foundation was just chock full of termites.

997
01:04:08,252 --> 01:04:11,612
But everything seemed fine, and everybody's going around the building,

998
01:04:11,612 --> 01:04:15,642
it's like, no big deal, and then I'd be like, Dude, this whole thing is literally

999
01:04:15,642 --> 01:04:19,992
gonna collapse, like, this thing is just chopped, like, the, the joists are rotten,

1000
01:04:20,172 --> 01:04:23,102
this whole thing is gonna fall, and everybody's gonna die, and you're like,

1001
01:04:23,312 --> 01:04:25,032
Well, we took a poll, and nobody cares.

1002
01:04:25,172 --> 01:04:30,272
Like, oh, it doesn't fucking mean anything, like, that doesn't change

1003
01:04:30,342 --> 01:04:34,942
anything about what I said, how, like, answer the problem, you know, like,

1004
01:04:34,952 --> 01:04:37,527
holy crap, like, how stupid is that?

1005
01:04:37,797 --> 01:04:39,527
How completely irrelevant could you be?

1006
01:04:39,527 --> 01:04:43,247
I don't give a who gives a shit about how many people give a shit about it?

1007
01:04:43,357 --> 01:04:47,927
You have a 70 percent pre mine in a system that has now gone proof of stake,

1008
01:04:47,987 --> 01:04:49,847
which means they owned the whole thing!

1009
01:04:49,977 --> 01:04:54,497
Before anything ever got started, before anybody was ever able to utilize or do

1010
01:04:54,507 --> 01:04:58,927
anything with it, there was a private sale of 70 percent of the tokens that are still

1011
01:04:58,927 --> 01:05:02,467
in basically the starting crews pockets.

1012
01:05:03,047 --> 01:05:05,257
And they remained there and then they moved it to Proof of Stake

1013
01:05:05,257 --> 01:05:08,297
where they get to order all of the transactions and build all the blocks

1014
01:05:08,457 --> 01:05:10,637
and have say over what the rules are.

1015
01:05:11,887 --> 01:05:16,847
What, I don't, if nobody understands that in your Ethereum, that's not a good thing.

1016
01:05:17,337 --> 01:05:19,147
That's not a defense of it.

1017
01:05:19,397 --> 01:05:23,917
That's just showing how bad it is and how stupid everybody is about what

1018
01:05:23,917 --> 01:05:27,537
decentralization means and why any of this exists in the first place.

1019
01:05:28,262 --> 01:05:32,102
On top of the fact that, by the way, we made it permissioned, so that

1020
01:05:32,112 --> 01:05:36,042
if you don't get our approval, you don't even get to play the game.

1021
01:05:36,552 --> 01:05:38,452
Just, holy wow.

1022
01:05:38,912 --> 01:05:42,392
It's just absolutely mind boggling sometimes.

1023
01:05:42,942 --> 01:05:43,782
Nobody cares.

1024
01:05:44,252 --> 01:05:44,602
It's like, what the f

1025
01:05:46,332 --> 01:05:48,162
are, are there any shit Bitcoiners left?

1026
01:05:48,162 --> 01:05:51,522
I mean, of course there are scammers left that try to do shit coins on Bitcoin

1027
01:05:51,522 --> 01:05:53,412
and what, whatever, and the other scams.

1028
01:05:54,072 --> 01:05:59,582
But like, the pure shitcoiner, like back in 2017 when I started this token

1029
01:05:59,582 --> 01:06:02,562
blah blah blah, does that still happen?

1030
01:06:02,632 --> 01:06:05,062
I mean, I very rarely see them anymore.

1031
01:06:05,072 --> 01:06:10,212
I see a lot of bots and people with ETH in their Twitter handles and stuff.

1032
01:06:10,842 --> 01:06:14,432
But that's mainly, that's mainly bots, I think, like, but, and,

1033
01:06:14,462 --> 01:06:17,112
a bunch of ETH devoutists still.

1034
01:06:17,497 --> 01:06:24,567
Um, and there's a handful of, uh, uh, explicit coins that, mostly

1035
01:06:24,567 --> 01:06:30,237
from, like, some utility mindset, um, failing to recognize, uh, recognize.

1036
01:06:30,937 --> 01:06:34,167
These are all monetary instruments and that's the only thing that they can be.

1037
01:06:34,647 --> 01:06:38,277
Um, and the idea of a utility token is nonsense and you're not

1038
01:06:38,277 --> 01:06:42,297
going to get away with, my single utility is going to outcompete

1039
01:06:42,347 --> 01:06:44,287
the base case of money and trust.

1040
01:06:44,507 --> 01:06:48,607
Um, because that's, that's not how any of this works, but it's okay.

1041
01:06:49,047 --> 01:06:51,377
Um, ignorance is the norm.

1042
01:06:52,362 --> 01:06:55,762
no, the utility is in an Excel sheet, like, a spreadsheet.

1043
01:06:56,492 --> 01:06:58,882
And you don't need all the other stuff.

1044
01:06:58,922 --> 01:06:59,332
Yeah, yeah.

1045
01:06:59,607 --> 01:07:05,947
But, uh, Ethereum, um, granted I haven't done like a deep dive.

1046
01:07:06,037 --> 01:07:08,327
Like there were times where I tried to spend.

1047
01:07:09,002 --> 01:07:16,272
A couple of weeks, like, really digging into and trying to, like, sushi swap

1048
01:07:16,282 --> 01:07:21,562
stuff just for the sake of exploring, uh, mostly as shitcoin insider homework,

1049
01:07:22,142 --> 01:07:25,567
um, but I haven't done it in a really long time, but it does seem that a lot.

1050
01:07:25,917 --> 01:07:29,187
Strong base of the, of the quote unquote community is still there.

1051
01:07:33,217 --> 01:07:37,627
External to that, um, I mean, I think, I think we're seeing so much

1052
01:07:37,637 --> 01:07:43,667
of the fervor die down because, I mean, at the end of the day, there's

1053
01:07:43,667 --> 01:07:44,837
two, there's two major problems.

1054
01:07:44,897 --> 01:07:48,507
There's two major problems with the, uh, the, the shitcoin casino world.

1055
01:07:49,797 --> 01:07:56,007
Is one, is that the fundamental utility token thesis is self defeating.

1056
01:07:57,117 --> 01:08:05,117
So, the over, like, the most Foundational and the most widespread mentality was

1057
01:08:05,117 --> 01:08:11,017
diversity, or excuse me, diversify, is that we need to, some of these other

1058
01:08:11,017 --> 01:08:16,697
things might have value, or this might have some single utility, and so they

1059
01:08:16,697 --> 01:08:21,927
split it up among the most prominent of the cryptos, and they hold bitcoin too.

1060
01:08:23,087 --> 01:08:27,457
Whereas the bitcoin philosophy was always, the strongest foundation of the

1061
01:08:27,457 --> 01:08:31,527
bitcoin philosophy was bitcoin only, this is changing sound money and it

1062
01:08:31,527 --> 01:08:32,807
makes no sense to have anything else.

1063
01:08:34,612 --> 01:08:42,402
From just that standpoint, you can deduce that Bitcoin wins, because inevitably,

1064
01:08:43,112 --> 01:08:49,982
crypto is spreading itself thin, and Bitcoin is staying, like, there are way,

1065
01:08:50,262 --> 01:08:57,062
way, way, way more Bitcoiners who hold no shitcoins, no tokens whatsoever, and

1066
01:08:57,132 --> 01:09:05,192
only hold Bitcoin, than there are ETH, Monero, Litecoin, whatever, who hold

1067
01:09:05,202 --> 01:09:08,682
only those coins, And don't hold bitcoin.

1068
01:09:09,712 --> 01:09:13,882
All of the token holders, like 99 percent of the token holders hold bitcoin.

1069
01:09:15,382 --> 01:09:17,342
Whereas the reverse is not true.

1070
01:09:18,232 --> 01:09:21,692
And in fact, everybody who is even holding ETH because it's got smart

1071
01:09:21,692 --> 01:09:23,662
contracts is also holding Solana.

1072
01:09:24,032 --> 01:09:28,612
Which means the economic network effects are inevitably in bitcoin's favor.

1073
01:09:29,922 --> 01:09:32,462
And they are still aligned with bitcoin.

1074
01:09:33,212 --> 01:09:35,452
Because they are still going to hold Bitcoin because Bitcoin is

1075
01:09:35,452 --> 01:09:37,152
going to continue to succeed.

1076
01:09:37,282 --> 01:09:39,462
That is the monetary network effects.

1077
01:09:39,532 --> 01:09:46,402
That is the, that is the problem of, or of the, the, um, extreme

1078
01:09:46,402 --> 01:09:49,282
condition of value being exclusive.

1079
01:09:50,392 --> 01:09:53,742
That you cannot hold value in two things at the exact same time.

1080
01:09:53,762 --> 01:09:57,312
It is always a trade off of which one is the better hold of value.

1081
01:09:57,512 --> 01:10:01,982
Which means that the monetary good that is the best at monetary trust,

1082
01:10:01,982 --> 01:10:05,742
is And as a monetary foundation is just going to win and all the other

1083
01:10:05,742 --> 01:10:06,952
ones are going to trend towards zero.

1084
01:10:07,812 --> 01:10:12,372
Yeah, it's like, utility value is like, uh, holding McDonald's, um,

1085
01:10:12,702 --> 01:10:14,522
coupons instead of holding dollars.

1086
01:10:14,542 --> 01:10:19,582
Like, that's, and, and pretending that they will be value, more

1087
01:10:19,592 --> 01:10:20,732
valuable in the long run.

1088
01:10:20,797 --> 01:10:21,674
Speaking

1089
01:10:21,792 --> 01:10:27,952
other, the other major disconnect, um, is the fact that, you know, we were

1090
01:10:27,952 --> 01:10:31,902
all like smart contracts and we're going to be able to design everything.

1091
01:10:31,912 --> 01:10:34,602
We're going to be able to put everything on the blockchain and all this stuff.

1092
01:10:34,792 --> 01:10:40,032
And then it turns out that the, like, 90 percent of the value of every bit of

1093
01:10:40,032 --> 01:10:43,182
this stuff was just in a shitcoin casino.

1094
01:10:44,477 --> 01:10:47,527
was, you know, it's like, they've got like 30 different decentralized

1095
01:10:47,527 --> 01:10:50,487
exchanges and what do all of those decentralized exchanges do?

1096
01:10:50,757 --> 01:10:58,247
They just trade, they just swap shitcoins, which means that the, of all the utility

1097
01:10:58,247 --> 01:11:02,857
tokens, essentially the core underlying utility of all of these things was just

1098
01:11:02,877 --> 01:11:04,642
to gamble and trade between them all.

1099
01:11:05,962 --> 01:11:11,162
And there has been no other strong, like, genuine market staying

1100
01:11:11,172 --> 01:11:12,712
power for any other use case.

1101
01:11:14,372 --> 01:11:17,122
like, I mean, you got like NFTs and stuff, and they're like a, they're

1102
01:11:17,122 --> 01:11:21,702
like a blip in the pan for like two months, and then they, they trail off,

1103
01:11:21,702 --> 01:11:22,592
and nobody really cares about them.

1104
01:11:22,662 --> 01:11:26,512
Like, some people spent like millions of dollars on a stupid monkey picture, and

1105
01:11:26,512 --> 01:11:28,002
now they're going for like 200 bucks.

1106
01:11:28,452 --> 01:11:29,622
You know, I mean, like, talk about like 99.

1107
01:11:29,622 --> 01:11:33,542
999 percent collapse in a lot of this stuff.

1108
01:11:34,042 --> 01:11:40,862
It exists purely in the hype cycle, and then it falls to the 1000th of a

1109
01:11:40,862 --> 01:11:45,692
market that it actually appeared to be, which is the market that it actually is.

1110
01:11:46,432 --> 01:11:50,342
Which means that the only thing that keeps up the utility tokens of

1111
01:11:50,352 --> 01:11:56,007
the, quote unquote, smart contracts is the hype cycles of the random

1112
01:11:56,417 --> 01:11:57,967
chitcoins and utility tokens.

1113
01:11:58,307 --> 01:12:01,777
And so if you don't have another massive hype cycle, there's no reason

1114
01:12:01,777 --> 01:12:05,982
for You're decentralized swapping all over the place because you

1115
01:12:05,982 --> 01:12:07,802
can't swap anything of real value.

1116
01:12:07,802 --> 01:12:11,272
You're not swapping, you're not paying for cars, and you're not paying for

1117
01:12:11,272 --> 01:12:12,622
like real things in the real world.

1118
01:12:12,622 --> 01:12:18,722
You're swapping sushi token for doge token and, and Ethereum and Solana.

1119
01:12:21,807 --> 01:12:24,347
SushiSwap sounds like a good name for a swingers club, don't you think?

1120
01:12:25,412 --> 01:12:25,832
Eyyyy!

1121
01:12:26,242 --> 01:12:27,482
That's not a bad idea.

1122
01:12:28,262 --> 01:12:29,322
I think you're on to something.

1123
01:12:30,432 --> 01:12:31,182
I think you're on to something.

1124
01:12:31,192 --> 01:12:31,372
Is that?

1125
01:12:31,757 --> 01:12:32,957
Is that one of your pastimes?

1126
01:12:33,464 --> 01:12:37,024
If it was, it would probably be kept a secret.

1127
01:12:39,744 --> 01:12:41,344
I would talk about it less, not more.

1128
01:12:42,923 --> 01:12:46,663
One of the funny things about, about, kind of talking about Shitcoins,

1129
01:12:46,673 --> 01:12:51,953
generally, ETH, all this stuff, ugh, it feels weird to even say it, it's like,

1130
01:12:52,203 --> 01:12:56,093
you go down the rabbit hole and you go all the way maxi and everything, and

1131
01:12:56,093 --> 01:12:59,363
it's just like, you stop thinking about this stuff after a certain point, and I

1132
01:12:59,363 --> 01:13:02,113
mean, it, like, I'm remembering my game.

1133
01:13:02,828 --> 01:13:07,288
Journey down the rabbit hole and how I became fully convinced and I mean,

1134
01:13:07,678 --> 01:13:12,928
like, I went from watching the Sailor series and on Breedlove and like,

1135
01:13:12,978 --> 01:13:17,128
like that got me that convinced me about Bitcoin, but I still had my

1136
01:13:17,168 --> 01:13:19,608
portfolio of shitcoins for a while.

1137
01:13:19,858 --> 01:13:24,883
I was only acquiring Bitcoin, but I still I still I just couldn't get over

1138
01:13:25,113 --> 01:13:31,203
little things like the proof of stake thing or mining or whatever it is.

1139
01:13:31,203 --> 01:13:34,173
I just couldn't get over diversification as we say.

1140
01:13:35,373 --> 01:13:39,583
It's a hard process I think actually going down the rabbit hole and completely

1141
01:13:39,583 --> 01:13:41,583
avoiding all of the crypto stuff.

1142
01:13:41,583 --> 01:13:44,963
But I think one thing to remember is it's still super important.

1143
01:13:45,683 --> 01:13:48,333
Across the world there are tons of people, there's way more

1144
01:13:48,333 --> 01:13:50,973
people who think about crypto.

1145
01:13:51,273 --> 01:13:55,163
And, and think it's just a thing to invest in and, and don't even give it

1146
01:13:55,163 --> 01:13:57,613
a second thought, then, then there are

1147
01:13:57,803 --> 01:13:59,973
just another thing in the stock market, basically.

1148
01:14:00,383 --> 01:14:03,583
exactly, exactly, and, and, and so, I mean, I, I think educating

1149
01:14:03,583 --> 01:14:06,963
people is still really important and, and, uh, and so, I mean,

1150
01:14:07,533 --> 01:14:08,953
We'll still have a few cycles, I think.

1151
01:14:09,613 --> 01:14:10,763
yeah, yeah, well, it's,

1152
01:14:10,793 --> 01:14:11,263
cycles.

1153
01:14:11,563 --> 01:14:15,413
it's tough to, it's tough to, to go there, but I think, I think we need to,

1154
01:14:15,423 --> 01:14:20,253
we need to, to, Bitcoin maxis need to, to be able to go there and say, okay, Yeah,

1155
01:14:20,263 --> 01:14:22,473
this is why this is actually different.

1156
01:14:22,503 --> 01:14:28,443
The mechanism of just sort of ignoring it all, like completely walling off from

1157
01:14:28,443 --> 01:14:33,433
the crypto ecosystem, that's good in one sense, and being like totally toxic

1158
01:14:33,433 --> 01:14:38,483
and not letting any of that creep into Bitcoin, of course, but it also does

1159
01:14:38,503 --> 01:14:42,663
create this echo chamber where maybe the voice of Bitcoin doesn't actually make

1160
01:14:42,663 --> 01:14:45,063
it out into the wider consciousness.

1161
01:14:45,063 --> 01:14:45,448
And, uh, yeah.

1162
01:14:45,458 --> 01:14:51,438
I think this is something that Bitcoin is going to need to improve on as we go to

1163
01:14:51,788 --> 01:14:54,298
reach more people in a more timely manner.

1164
01:14:54,593 --> 01:14:55,593
No, I totally agree.

1165
01:14:55,633 --> 01:15:00,533
It comes off more, and I think it's used like that in the community.

1166
01:15:00,533 --> 01:15:04,553
Like, you know, as much as, like, I would never talk to people in

1167
01:15:05,153 --> 01:15:09,683
the crypto space to the degree that I've had this conversation here.

1168
01:15:09,683 --> 01:15:16,448
I've been very Very mean, you know, in the, in the sense of if I was talking to

1169
01:15:16,448 --> 01:15:23,498
somebody who was highly involved in it, um, but the arguments are, like, I think

1170
01:15:23,508 --> 01:15:29,038
just presenting the argument, it comes off as way, way too defensive to, and

1171
01:15:29,038 --> 01:15:34,938
I think we've gone through this era of thinking that because we think something

1172
01:15:34,948 --> 01:15:40,533
is A scam or nonsense that there's been this whole thing of like, don't

1173
01:15:40,563 --> 01:15:46,033
platform these people and like, don't, and I'm just like, stop caring so much.

1174
01:15:47,223 --> 01:15:48,043
Stop caring so much.

1175
01:15:48,073 --> 01:15:51,953
And I've gotten to the point where I just, I just don't, you know, like I'll give my

1176
01:15:51,953 --> 01:16:00,488
opinion and I, you know, I won't, uh, hold back, but I also have no problem talking

1177
01:16:00,728 --> 01:16:04,788
to somebody in crypto, or going on their show, or going, if I got invited to a

1178
01:16:04,788 --> 01:16:06,458
crypto conference, I'd be pretty stoked.

1179
01:16:06,678 --> 01:16:08,208
I'd be like, well, here's an audience that actually really,

1180
01:16:08,208 --> 01:16:10,048
really needs to hear this, you know?

1181
01:16:10,398 --> 01:16:10,948
Um.

1182
01:16:11,538 --> 01:16:16,278
I think I have absolutely nothing against that, and I also have no bad blood.

1183
01:16:16,318 --> 01:16:23,938
I, I, as much as I will, I will say ETH is an absolute scam, and it is nonsense,

1184
01:16:23,948 --> 01:16:27,398
and there are huge problems that are way more fundamental than whether or not

1185
01:16:27,398 --> 01:16:29,328
your layer 2 rollups are working or not.

1186
01:16:29,738 --> 01:16:33,368
I just, like, I don't, I don't care about your layer 2 if your layer 1 is dogshit.

1187
01:16:33,778 --> 01:16:42,428
But, that aside, is, like, I'm not, like, I held shitcoins, you know, I traded, I

1188
01:16:42,428 --> 01:16:46,718
traded shitcoins for, like, a long time, I was, god, I was, I was certain I was gonna

1189
01:16:46,718 --> 01:16:52,088
make more bitcoin, uh, in the 2017, like, hype cycle, like, the real hype cycle

1190
01:16:52,088 --> 01:16:58,673
for this, and it was wild, I actually had a shitcoin play that went So well.

1191
01:16:59,363 --> 01:17:00,063
So well.

1192
01:17:01,583 --> 01:17:02,333
For a span.

1193
01:17:03,963 --> 01:17:04,883
And then I watched it die.

1194
01:17:05,393 --> 01:17:09,283
And I learned my lesson, and I lost my bitcoin.

1195
01:17:09,803 --> 01:17:17,803
And I realized, I identified the excuses I was giving myself for, I cannot

1196
01:17:17,803 --> 01:17:18,923
believe I didn't take out my principal.

1197
01:17:19,493 --> 01:17:20,293
I cannot believe I didn't tell you.

1198
01:17:20,543 --> 01:17:21,823
God bless, it's so awful.

1199
01:17:22,143 --> 01:17:23,273
But, you know, hindsight.

1200
01:17:23,493 --> 01:17:25,013
Um, hindsight's 25.

1201
01:17:25,014 --> 01:17:27,353
Nah, 20, 2010.

1202
01:17:27,353 --> 01:17:27,973
That's not 2020.

1203
01:17:27,973 --> 01:17:29,623
It's like, it's way better than that.

1204
01:17:30,033 --> 01:17:38,453
Uh, but, uh, I, um, How could I possibly fault somebody else I did it?

1205
01:17:39,223 --> 01:17:39,843
You know what I mean?

1206
01:17:41,343 --> 01:17:43,733
And I think part of it's, you know, wanting to judge yourself.

1207
01:17:43,793 --> 01:17:47,483
It's like, I wanna be mad at me from 2017, but I learned, like,

1208
01:17:47,483 --> 01:17:48,553
a lot of really great lessons.

1209
01:17:51,088 --> 01:17:57,598
And I don't want to be overly defensive, or like, I just don't care anymore.

1210
01:17:57,608 --> 01:18:01,548
And I also, as much as I'll explain to people who need to hear it,

1211
01:18:01,678 --> 01:18:02,988
or that I think need to hear it,

1212
01:18:05,638 --> 01:18:09,628
I also find that just with, most people learn through time, and

1213
01:18:09,628 --> 01:18:10,758
most people learn the hard way.

1214
01:18:11,673 --> 01:18:15,823
And it's just like, alright, you know, we'll really learn it if we all learn

1215
01:18:15,823 --> 01:18:18,743
it the hard way, so I'll just leave the hard way on the table, and I won't,

1216
01:18:19,303 --> 01:18:23,293
and if you're just gonna get mad at me because I told you not to do it, be my

1217
01:18:23,313 --> 01:18:29,303
guest, be my guest, and I'll just keep putting out episodes, and if you ever

1218
01:18:29,303 --> 01:18:33,343
want to come back and, you know, maybe, maybe you'll just be butthurt forever,

1219
01:18:33,403 --> 01:18:37,618
and You know, you always just permanently lose money, but that's up to you.

1220
01:18:37,668 --> 01:18:38,458
Do you want to learn?

1221
01:18:39,488 --> 01:18:44,558
Do you want to take a lesson from it and actually change something?

1222
01:18:44,568 --> 01:18:48,088
Or do you want to just write a book out about how everybody else

1223
01:18:48,088 --> 01:18:54,528
is wrong and, you know, and just be infinitely butthurt about it?

1224
01:18:54,868 --> 01:18:58,658
And convince that the only reason that you didn't succeed, or that your

1225
01:18:58,668 --> 01:19:02,578
shitcoin didn't succeed, is because everybody else doesn't understand it,

1226
01:19:02,588 --> 01:19:04,398
and the whole world is wrong, not me.

1227
01:19:05,398 --> 01:19:05,958
Not me.

1228
01:19:06,938 --> 01:19:10,778
the fact that Nostr exists now is, is a very good thing from a

1229
01:19:10,778 --> 01:19:12,458
perspective that few understand.

1230
01:19:12,518 --> 01:19:17,398
And this is that the, all of these young 180 IQ programmers

1231
01:19:17,398 --> 01:19:21,758
who, who sit in their basements and, and worry about things like.

1232
01:19:22,128 --> 01:19:27,098
rollups not working on layer 2 on some, they can now develop Nostr

1233
01:19:27,128 --> 01:19:33,508
things instead of spending their time and energy on fucking shitcoin stuff.

1234
01:19:33,718 --> 01:19:35,618
Because there's so many, you know the

1235
01:19:35,853 --> 01:19:37,013
media shitcoins were there?

1236
01:19:37,093 --> 01:19:37,623
How many?

1237
01:19:37,918 --> 01:19:41,388
Yeah, I don't know, but there's a Steam was one, right?

1238
01:19:41,398 --> 01:19:45,218
Like, yeah, yeah, it's awful.

1239
01:19:45,218 --> 01:19:51,178
And I think that had like a double token, so you had to have one token

1240
01:19:51,188 --> 01:19:52,538
to get the other or something.

1241
01:19:53,108 --> 01:19:53,658
It's really

1242
01:19:53,723 --> 01:19:56,993
like that, and I think, was that the one that had the hostile takeover from Tron?

1243
01:19:57,163 --> 01:19:58,303
From Justin Son?

1244
01:19:58,643 --> 01:19:58,843
Was that

1245
01:19:58,938 --> 01:20:01,388
I don't remember, I, I,

1246
01:20:01,443 --> 01:20:04,493
and he like bought up, like, more than half of it, and then

1247
01:20:04,493 --> 01:20:07,603
basically just like dominated the whole thing, which was hilarious.

1248
01:20:07,758 --> 01:20:08,758
don't quan,

1249
01:20:09,773 --> 01:20:10,753
Don't go on that.

1250
01:20:10,973 --> 01:20:12,603
It was, it was Justin Son tron.

1251
01:20:12,743 --> 01:20:14,043
It was Justin Son tron.

1252
01:20:14,633 --> 01:20:18,683
Uh, I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure that's, that's who it was.

1253
01:20:18,763 --> 01:20:19,273
I think it was Steemit.

1254
01:20:19,713 --> 01:20:20,453
I think it was Steemit.

1255
01:20:20,453 --> 01:20:21,163
I'll have to look that up.

1256
01:20:22,548 --> 01:20:26,928
but, but, but you know the type, right, this, this, uh, super nerd that is

1257
01:20:27,178 --> 01:20:32,608
extremely intelligent in one specific field, usually programming, and doesn't

1258
01:20:32,608 --> 01:20:37,228
care about networking, it doesn't care about economics, and, uh, there's a lot

1259
01:20:37,228 --> 01:20:41,488
of those, there were a lot of those that, that fell for the ether thing, and, and

1260
01:20:41,498 --> 01:20:46,078
started, like, Going deep into, oh, this is a challenge, I need to program this

1261
01:20:46,078 --> 01:20:52,488
stuff, not realizing that it's a castle made of sand, that it's built on nothing,

1262
01:20:52,488 --> 01:20:57,848
it's a giant nothing burger, and what they're serving with the nothing burger

1263
01:20:57,848 --> 01:21:00,478
is code salad, you know, it's nothing.

1264
01:21:01,428 --> 01:21:02,328
goat salad,

1265
01:21:05,078 --> 01:21:09,178
, uh, it is truly the impossible burger of Bitcoin steak.

1266
01:21:09,708 --> 01:21:10,988
Impossible Whopper, yes.

1267
01:21:12,375 --> 01:21:18,515
But yeah, I, uh, and I, I agree with Luke on that, is that it was a, it was a

1268
01:21:18,515 --> 01:21:25,845
dumb strategy, and it, and it, it makes Bitcoiners look weak to just, it makes it

1269
01:21:25,845 --> 01:21:31,645
look like they care too much about shit coins as opposed to not at all, you know.

1270
01:21:32,005 --> 01:21:36,645
It's like, it, it literally treats, treats them like they're a threat, you

1271
01:21:36,645 --> 01:21:40,015
know, is to be like, you don't, don't you ever talk to them, and don't you

1272
01:21:40,015 --> 01:21:42,795
ever do the, just like, I can't believe you're a shit corner, you're banished

1273
01:21:42,805 --> 01:21:48,665
forever, and all this stuff, and it's just like, why do you care so much, why

1274
01:21:48,665 --> 01:21:49,855
do you care so much, just stop caring.

1275
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:52,100
Like, everything's going great in Bitcoin.

1276
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:55,280
I've been zapping people on Nostr ten times a day.

1277
01:21:55,920 --> 01:22:01,260
Uh, I got ten different lightning wallets that all do different things.

1278
01:22:01,260 --> 01:22:04,630
Bolt12 just got implemented, like, officially.

1279
01:22:05,260 --> 01:22:09,340
So now we got subscriptions, pay as you go, we got offers and stuff built in.

1280
01:22:09,570 --> 01:22:15,190
You can have a permanent, like, quote unquote, address or, or, A permanent

1281
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:18,910
invoice that other people can use to make invoices to pay you so that

1282
01:22:18,910 --> 01:22:21,880
you can just post it, like, like a bitcoin address, you can now have a

1283
01:22:21,930 --> 01:22:26,630
quote unquote lightning address that's non custodial, um, like, and that's

1284
01:22:26,630 --> 01:22:29,990
just, and that's just on lightning, and lightning's been killing it, like

1285
01:22:29,990 --> 01:22:33,040
I use it It's my main mode of pay.

1286
01:22:33,270 --> 01:22:35,430
I, I do so many different transactions.

1287
01:22:35,430 --> 01:22:38,300
I've been on a Bitcoin standard for a couple of years now where

1288
01:22:39,490 --> 01:22:42,930
I guess slowly transitioning to a everything comes in in Bitcoin.

1289
01:22:43,030 --> 01:22:46,050
And then, you know, I use the dollar as my main payment network.

1290
01:22:46,750 --> 01:22:50,030
Um, and things are going good.

1291
01:22:50,140 --> 01:22:54,052
Bitcoin's up, you know, all time highs, pretty much chilling,

1292
01:22:54,052 --> 01:22:56,840
chilling around 60, 000.

1293
01:22:56,850 --> 01:22:57,460
No big deal.

1294
01:22:57,890 --> 01:22:59,250
58K gain for life.

1295
01:23:01,125 --> 01:23:01,985
no, it's great.

1296
01:23:03,005 --> 01:23:06,825
Just a final point on the giving a platform to shitcoiners and stuff.

1297
01:23:06,825 --> 01:23:11,495
The thing I think we shouldn't stop doing, though, is calling out

1298
01:23:11,495 --> 01:23:13,415
bullshit and being toxic, like,

1299
01:23:13,510 --> 01:23:13,790
Oh yeah.

1300
01:23:13,790 --> 01:23:14,060
That's

1301
01:23:14,335 --> 01:23:19,525
point out when someone else is giving a platform to an obvious scammer,

1302
01:23:19,975 --> 01:23:25,235
pointing out when Uh, when there's a manufactured debate about something

1303
01:23:25,235 --> 01:23:26,435
that shouldn't be a debate at all.

1304
01:23:26,435 --> 01:23:31,015
Like, it's like what public service news media outlets do all the time.

1305
01:23:31,345 --> 01:23:35,815
They create a debate about something that is missing the underlying problem.

1306
01:23:35,865 --> 01:23:40,560
And it's not addressing the interesting stuff, but they're Making it seem

1307
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:45,500
like this arbitrary bullshit is, is what we ought to be talking about.

1308
01:23:45,730 --> 01:23:50,030
Like, ironically enough, that's what we spent some part of this

1309
01:23:50,470 --> 01:23:51,510
conversation talking about.

1310
01:23:51,510 --> 01:23:56,770
You know, shitcoins on bitcoin and, and, uh, ordinals on stamps and shitcoins.

1311
01:23:56,770 --> 01:23:59,900
But that whole debate is a nothing burger in itself.

1312
01:23:59,920 --> 01:24:01,050
It's manufactured.

1313
01:24:01,555 --> 01:24:08,495
And it's that expression, uh, don't ever wrestle with a pig because you

1314
01:24:08,495 --> 01:24:10,215
both get dirty and the pig likes it.

1315
01:24:10,430 --> 01:24:10,770
Yeah.

1316
01:24:11,185 --> 01:24:12,005
That's the thing.

1317
01:24:13,375 --> 01:24:14,255
We're wrestling with pigs.

1318
01:24:14,265 --> 01:24:17,205
So like, what I do mostly is just ignore chitcoiners

1319
01:24:18,395 --> 01:24:18,755
Mm

1320
01:24:18,895 --> 01:24:24,475
and point out, and like, try to educate and try to stay toxic.

1321
01:24:26,045 --> 01:24:27,885
But without calling out names.

1322
01:24:27,885 --> 01:24:34,095
I don't think you should, like Give people free promotion by engaging

1323
01:24:34,095 --> 01:24:36,395
in debates if, if you can avoid it.

1324
01:24:36,475 --> 01:24:39,965
But you can attack, what you can attack though is the bad ideas, and you can

1325
01:24:39,965 --> 01:24:41,985
point out how bad the bad ideas are.

1326
01:24:42,595 --> 01:24:42,885
Yeah.

1327
01:24:43,295 --> 01:24:49,385
If, if you debate, is, debate from the, the, the principle, debate

1328
01:24:49,385 --> 01:24:54,065
from the foundation, like, cause that's the only, otherwise you're

1329
01:24:54,085 --> 01:24:55,385
arguing within their framing.

1330
01:24:56,255 --> 01:24:57,655
Argue within the Bitcoin frame.

1331
01:24:58,045 --> 01:25:04,155
Like, like, don't give them the assumption that their, their foundation is accurate.

1332
01:25:04,165 --> 01:25:07,095
Argue the foundation or you're not actually arguing the principle.

1333
01:25:07,095 --> 01:25:09,455
This is what I see with economics all the time.

1334
01:25:09,455 --> 01:25:13,175
It's, you know, they'll argue about, like, aggregate demand and GDP when,

1335
01:25:13,205 --> 01:25:16,095
like, if you actually have an Austrian foundation, you're like, GDP is bullshit.

1336
01:25:16,645 --> 01:25:18,515
Like, it's like, it, like, no.

1337
01:25:18,955 --> 01:25:22,115
Like, your ag, your metric, your, the statistic you are

1338
01:25:22,115 --> 01:25:24,425
using Doesn't even apply.

1339
01:25:24,445 --> 01:25:28,515
So I don't really care what GDP is different now than, like GDP is just going

1340
01:25:28,515 --> 01:25:32,335
to go up if you print a ton of money and the economy doesn't collapse, like that's

1341
01:25:32,335 --> 01:25:36,475
it, like you, like GDP is a far better measure of just like the amount of money

1342
01:25:36,475 --> 01:25:40,815
that's been flooded in the economy, and the only time that it actually goes down

1343
01:25:41,105 --> 01:25:46,165
is when it's so bad and you've created such a terrible credit crisis that it

1344
01:25:46,175 --> 01:25:49,885
has to unravel and you literally have to delete trillions of dollars through

1345
01:25:49,885 --> 01:25:51,595
a default, through a credit crisis.

1346
01:25:51,950 --> 01:25:54,490
So it's, it's whether, it's whether or not it's either going up because you

1347
01:25:54,490 --> 01:25:56,960
printed a whole lot of money or it's going down because you caused a credit crisis.

1348
01:25:57,020 --> 01:25:58,140
That's it.

1349
01:25:58,140 --> 01:25:59,440
That's what GDP measures.

1350
01:25:59,610 --> 01:26:04,670
So, if you are arguing in the frame of GDP as a measure of like the health of

1351
01:26:04,670 --> 01:26:07,620
the economy, you've already lost, because you're not actually arguing the point,

1352
01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:17,665
um, and in kind of a similar vein is, you know, uh, and I completely agree that I

1353
01:26:17,675 --> 01:26:19,605
think a lot of people get confused with

1354
01:26:22,225 --> 01:26:29,045
engaging and quote unquote being polite or being like just talking to them without

1355
01:26:29,565 --> 01:26:35,965
being like you're a heaven idiot is like not being solid about your point.

1356
01:26:36,105 --> 01:26:39,825
It's just like somehow this is like pulling punches or something.

1357
01:26:39,825 --> 01:26:46,425
Is it you're, you're giving them something when there's nothing about,

1358
01:26:47,735 --> 01:26:49,905
I think people conflate being nice.

1359
01:26:50,260 --> 01:26:50,970
With lying.

1360
01:26:52,500 --> 01:26:54,010
I think, I think a lot of people do that.

1361
01:26:54,040 --> 01:26:56,600
Is that the way to be nice is to just bullshit somebody.

1362
01:26:58,050 --> 01:27:03,530
Is to just be like, oh yeah, no, your project's great, and I'm being nice, and

1363
01:27:03,530 --> 01:27:05,320
I'm being polite, everything's great.

1364
01:27:05,930 --> 01:27:08,090
The theorem's gonna go awesome, man, I swear.

1365
01:27:08,310 --> 01:27:10,110
It's like, no, just tell them the truth.

1366
01:27:10,370 --> 01:27:11,850
That's the only way to be nice anyway.

1367
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:16,940
You don't have to pull your punches in what you think or your argument.

1368
01:27:18,115 --> 01:27:23,515
To not just attack them as a person, or whatever, and your argument is a thousand

1369
01:27:23,515 --> 01:27:28,065
times stronger if you manage to avoid that anyway, because you just stay on point.

1370
01:27:28,915 --> 01:27:29,565
Just stay on point.

1371
01:27:29,565 --> 01:27:30,095
Just argue.

1372
01:27:30,325 --> 01:27:32,085
If you want to debate with somebody, just argue the point.

1373
01:27:33,025 --> 01:27:36,525
Don't accept their frame, and don't call them a piece of trash,

1374
01:27:36,995 --> 01:27:38,010
just because they made a point.

1375
01:27:38,390 --> 01:27:38,950
A mistake.

1376
01:27:39,140 --> 01:27:39,670
You did too.

1377
01:27:39,710 --> 01:27:40,600
You held shitcoins.

1378
01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:41,490
You know you did.

1379
01:27:42,750 --> 01:27:43,360
know you did it.

1380
01:27:44,855 --> 01:27:45,535
Ten dollars.

1381
01:27:45,990 --> 01:27:47,600
That's my, my track record of

1382
01:27:47,970 --> 01:27:49,770
I held so many shitcoins for a little bit there.

1383
01:27:50,010 --> 01:27:50,750
anyway, like,

1384
01:27:50,770 --> 01:27:51,340
embarrassing.

1385
01:27:52,390 --> 01:27:57,280
politeness is at the very core of why wokeism is a thing, I think.

1386
01:27:57,330 --> 01:28:00,790
Because it comes from a place of trying to be polite to one another.

1387
01:28:00,990 --> 01:28:06,490
And this over politeness and confusing, as you say, confusing being nice with lying.

1388
01:28:08,300 --> 01:28:09,080
Just making stuff up.

1389
01:28:10,015 --> 01:28:10,755
yeah, and

1390
01:28:10,890 --> 01:28:13,430
It's like one of those things that insecure guys think that they

1391
01:28:13,430 --> 01:28:16,880
have to lie about what they like to women to make women like them.

1392
01:28:17,675 --> 01:28:18,155
yeah,

1393
01:28:18,180 --> 01:28:20,060
it's like, it's like, oh I love Taylor Swift.

1394
01:28:20,060 --> 01:28:21,840
It's like, I love Taylor Swift too.

1395
01:28:22,410 --> 01:28:24,230
And it's like, you're manipulating them.

1396
01:28:25,110 --> 01:28:29,740
Like, you're not being nice, you're lying to them to get them to like you.

1397
01:28:29,970 --> 01:28:31,710
That's what a creep does.

1398
01:28:32,140 --> 01:28:35,340
If you don't like Taylor Swift, be like, why do you like Taylor Swift?

1399
01:28:35,340 --> 01:28:36,160
She's awful.

1400
01:28:36,630 --> 01:28:39,340
And it's actually a much more interesting conversation too.

1401
01:28:39,560 --> 01:28:42,870
And if she can't handle it because she's a delicate little nothing, you don't,

1402
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:44,460
why would you want to be with that woman?

1403
01:28:44,740 --> 01:28:48,950
Like, just, just go off, like, value yourself and be honest.

1404
01:28:49,835 --> 01:28:53,345
Like you're doing the same thing that, it's just, it's just a mess, like we

1405
01:28:53,345 --> 01:28:59,085
literally have this weird culture that has slowly grown up in the last 30 years

1406
01:28:59,085 --> 01:29:06,125
where living a permanent life of white lies is somehow being nice to people, or

1407
01:29:06,795 --> 01:29:12,585
good, or something, like stop putting a mask on, man up, pull your britches up,

1408
01:29:12,615 --> 01:29:16,515
and just, just tell people what you think, actually like the things that you like.

1409
01:29:17,265 --> 01:29:21,625
And stop making shit up because you want somebody else's approval.

1410
01:29:22,995 --> 01:29:23,965
I don't like Taylor Swift.

1411
01:29:24,845 --> 01:29:25,295
That's not true.

1412
01:29:25,295 --> 01:29:26,765
There's a couple, there's a couple songs.

1413
01:29:26,835 --> 01:29:29,085
There's a couple songs that are kind of like, they, they hit.

1414
01:29:29,515 --> 01:29:32,885
I find her fascinating, uh, let's just say that.

1415
01:29:33,735 --> 01:29:35,225
She didn't write any of that stuff anyway.

1416
01:29:35,625 --> 01:29:38,255
So it's not, it's not Taylor Swift, it's just, it's just whoever the

1417
01:29:38,255 --> 01:29:40,325
songwriter is that she purchased it from.

1418
01:29:40,325 --> 01:29:41,445
Heh heh heh.

1419
01:29:41,844 --> 01:29:45,094
Guy, this has been an awesome conversation, I wish we could go on for

1420
01:29:45,094 --> 01:29:49,794
two more hours, but unfortunately we're a bit tight on time here, so I think we're

1421
01:29:50,184 --> 01:29:52,704
gonna wrap it up here soon, or if not now.

1422
01:29:53,594 --> 01:29:58,224
It's like, well, I mean, thanks again on the audio book.

1423
01:29:58,264 --> 01:30:01,674
It's, it should be out by the time that this episode comes out.

1424
01:30:01,674 --> 01:30:05,414
So make sure everyone that you check out the audio version of Bitcoin,

1425
01:30:05,414 --> 01:30:09,694
the Universal Clown World, read by the one and only guys one, uh, and

1426
01:30:09,744 --> 01:30:12,174
you can change the speed if you want.

1427
01:30:12,524 --> 01:30:13,834
Uh, uh,

1428
01:30:13,844 --> 01:30:17,874
to get it slow, so if somebody, I do actually try to get it like, slow

1429
01:30:17,874 --> 01:30:21,124
and steady because I know there are like, non native English speakers

1430
01:30:21,124 --> 01:30:22,984
who listen to it, and I don't want them to have to manually slow it

1431
01:30:22,994 --> 01:30:24,794
down, and I know everybody goes on 1.

1432
01:30:24,844 --> 01:30:29,454
5, 2x anyway, um, so, so definitely do speed it up if

1433
01:30:29,674 --> 01:30:32,244
I noticed, and I thought it was absolutely brilliant.

1434
01:30:32,584 --> 01:30:34,734
Like, uh, I really, uh, really like that.

1435
01:30:34,794 --> 01:30:35,704
That's clever.

1436
01:30:35,839 --> 01:30:38,539
Appreciate that rather than saying it's like, oh, he talks really slow, like he's

1437
01:30:38,644 --> 01:30:39,664
No, no, no, no, no.

1438
01:30:39,674 --> 01:30:41,244
It's, it's perfectly read.

1439
01:30:41,254 --> 01:30:43,644
So, so, and check out all the other stuff.

1440
01:30:43,684 --> 01:30:47,254
Check out Bitcoin Audible, and where else would you like to send our listeners?

1441
01:30:47,499 --> 01:30:49,269
Uh, just, you can find me on Nostr.

1442
01:30:49,439 --> 01:30:51,389
Um, that's where I do most of my stuff.

1443
01:30:51,419 --> 01:30:55,619
And on Keet, if you join any of the Keet rooms, I'm in like 90.

1444
01:30:56,134 --> 01:31:01,224
Um, now, it's like, really retarded, so, uh, you, there's no way you don't

1445
01:31:01,224 --> 01:31:04,864
bump into me on Keet if you just start exploring, and I spend, that's where I

1446
01:31:04,864 --> 01:31:12,214
spend two most maximum amounts of time, is hanging out on Nostr, and uh, uh,

1447
01:31:12,294 --> 01:31:15,484
hanging out, like, all my work stuff is in Keet, so I'm, I'm there in those

1448
01:31:15,504 --> 01:31:20,654
groups quite a bit, back and forth, Uh, and you can DM me on Twitter, I still

1449
01:31:20,654 --> 01:31:25,764
answer my DMs, like I don't post, uh, like I don't do comments or whatever, I'll

1450
01:31:25,764 --> 01:31:30,444
just like post episode stuff, typically on Twitter and content, but I can still

1451
01:31:30,454 --> 01:31:35,144
be reached there, and it is still one of my biggest networks for access to other

1452
01:31:35,144 --> 01:31:39,404
people, so feel free to DM me, I might be slow about getting back and I apologize,

1453
01:31:39,944 --> 01:31:41,444
um, but otherwise check out the show.

1454
01:31:42,319 --> 01:31:46,229
Um, uh, Bitcoin Audible, AI Unchained, if you're interested in

1455
01:31:46,299 --> 01:31:50,339
all the AI stuff, I really go down that rabbit hole pretty serious.

1456
01:31:50,449 --> 01:31:57,199
Um, and also, it's connection to the open source world of, uh, AI specifically,

1457
01:31:57,269 --> 01:31:58,999
and how it's connected to Bitcoin.

1458
01:31:59,489 --> 01:32:03,879
And then also, the Pear Report, which is all about the PearStack, which

1459
01:32:03,879 --> 01:32:08,169
is what Keat and, well, it's the PearStack and a little bit Nostr.

1460
01:32:08,249 --> 01:32:12,019
Like, it's got like a, it's got like a foot in the Nostr door, too, because

1461
01:32:12,019 --> 01:32:15,959
I think these are Deeply related, and I think they, they have a lot, they're

1462
01:32:15,959 --> 01:32:18,509
going to have a lot to do with each other as things, uh, move forward.

1463
01:32:19,054 --> 01:32:24,089
That's super good to hear because Yeah, we talked to Paolo and uh, uh, Matias about,

1464
01:32:24,139 --> 01:32:29,029
about Keith and one question was like, what's the connection to Nostr and it

1465
01:32:29,029 --> 01:32:32,439
seems like a no brainer that the two would work together, but uh, yeah, let's see.

1466
01:32:32,789 --> 01:32:33,179
Interested

1467
01:32:33,189 --> 01:32:38,119
you, I'll tell you my, my easy framing on this is that Nostr actually doesn't

1468
01:32:38,139 --> 01:32:39,329
have anything to do with relays.

1469
01:32:40,519 --> 01:32:45,299
Relays are just the default lowest hanging fruit for how to get

1470
01:32:45,309 --> 01:32:47,019
information from one user to another.

1471
01:32:48,279 --> 01:32:52,649
There's no reason why it can't be Nostrs and pairs.

1472
01:32:52,719 --> 01:32:57,489
Like, like it can't be, like notes, the notes and the other stuff is a generic

1473
01:32:57,909 --> 01:33:01,629
signing and publishing protocol with keys.

1474
01:33:02,424 --> 01:33:08,214
And like that you can basically deliver anything over the internet that you want.

1475
01:33:08,914 --> 01:33:14,554
Relays are the simple means, the simplest tool for getting

1476
01:33:15,044 --> 01:33:16,724
signed message from A to B.

1477
01:33:17,494 --> 01:33:20,294
But you can do that over the pair stack too, without changing

1478
01:33:20,294 --> 01:33:22,384
anything else about Nostr.

1479
01:33:23,284 --> 01:33:27,574
The whole protocol can work exactly the same, and rather than using a

1480
01:33:27,624 --> 01:33:29,554
relay address, you can use a pair.

1481
01:33:30,389 --> 01:33:33,619
Address, and you can do this across peers.

1482
01:33:33,889 --> 01:33:36,739
So there is not, I think they are separate layers.

1483
01:33:37,309 --> 01:33:45,069
In a general sense, Noster is a signing, authentication and basically a, a

1484
01:33:45,069 --> 01:33:50,829
directory of people and their keys and built with like a social media system.

1485
01:33:51,914 --> 01:33:54,934
And the pair stack is a communication standard.

1486
01:33:56,014 --> 01:33:59,344
It is more about, are we going to use relays, are we going to use

1487
01:33:59,344 --> 01:34:02,514
the pair stack, are we going to use TCPIP and do a web server?

1488
01:34:02,724 --> 01:34:05,194
Like, it's in that stack of the stuff.

1489
01:34:05,214 --> 01:34:07,044
But the rest of Nostr is actually not part of that.

1490
01:34:07,044 --> 01:34:08,374
The rest of Nostr is on top.

1491
01:34:08,814 --> 01:34:13,274
So that's just my, my reasoning for why I think these are not really competing

1492
01:34:13,284 --> 01:34:17,074
with each other and that they are both going to be a very important part of

1493
01:34:17,104 --> 01:34:19,704
the, of the new stack, if you will.

1494
01:34:20,574 --> 01:34:21,564
That's your two sats.

1495
01:34:22,034 --> 01:34:23,994
That's my two, that's just my two sats.

1496
01:34:25,231 --> 01:34:29,591
So, anyway, anywhere you want to send our, uh, um, like, or

1497
01:34:29,591 --> 01:34:30,801
was that the end, the answer

1498
01:34:30,801 --> 01:34:32,421
was, that was, I think we got the whole list.

1499
01:34:32,431 --> 01:34:33,391
I think we got the whole list.

1500
01:34:33,591 --> 01:34:34,201
I think we got it.

1501
01:34:34,251 --> 01:34:34,551
Yeah.

1502
01:34:34,701 --> 01:34:35,521
Check out those shows.

1503
01:34:35,521 --> 01:34:37,051
AI Unchained, Pear Report.

1504
01:34:37,961 --> 01:34:38,071
Bitcoinaudible.

1505
01:34:38,761 --> 01:34:40,751
Check out all the things, do all the things.

1506
01:34:41,890 --> 01:34:45,910
Guy, thanks so much for this, it's been awesome to chat with you, uh, yeah.

1507
01:34:46,120 --> 01:34:48,670
It's been a long time coming, we'll have to do this more often, so.

1508
01:34:48,955 --> 01:34:49,585
For sure, man.

1509
01:34:49,635 --> 01:34:51,745
Good to officially meet you, I guess.

1510
01:34:52,005 --> 01:34:53,495
Since, since I didn't know.

1511
01:34:53,545 --> 01:34:54,595
I didn't even realize.

1512
01:34:54,875 --> 01:34:54,905
It's

1513
01:34:54,910 --> 01:34:55,690
Yeah, I know, hey.

1514
01:34:56,030 --> 01:34:58,860
Yeah, likewise, Guy, likewise.

1515
01:34:58,930 --> 01:35:01,310
So hey, this has been the Bitcoin Infinity Show.

1516
01:35:01,855 --> 01:35:02,775
Thank you very much for listening.

1517
01:35:03,745 --> 01:35:04,215
Take it easy.