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you know, we realized actually only a few months after we

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started building Geyser that.

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Kickstarter and GoFundMe were only accessible in 30 countries.

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So like if you're in Brazil or Nigeria, you couldn't create a

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project and raise money on GoFundMe.

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And, and we realized like, that's bizarre.

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. So, Bitcoin really, really, like, saves, saves mainly that because at the end

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of the day in the West, we still do have a lot of these tools and pretty,

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pretty powerful and useful, but in other parts of the world, where the

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banking system isn't as sophisticated.

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And then also, it's not even just that, but one of the financial infrastructure

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that exists today, PayPal, Stripe, they're sort of, there's massive

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regulatory capture and they're not really allowed to I'm not going to

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extend their services beyond because they're deemed to be high risk, right?

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So, It's just, uh, it's just an insane way of just perpetuating

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financial apartheid, right?

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It's really dividing the world into different caps.

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You know, you cannot use digital money and now we have Bitcoin.

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It's like, well, now everyone gets digital money.

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Thankfully.

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This is the Freedom Footprint Show, a Bitcoin philosophy show with

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Knut Svanholm and me, Luke DeWolf.

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And we love to expand our freedom footprint.

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We hope you do too.

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The best way to do that is of course to try to emit as much

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freedom dioxide as possible.

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The best tool we have for doing that is of course Bitcoin.

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Before we dive into today's show, we'd just like to tell you a little

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bit about how you can support us.

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First, to support us directly with Bitcoin, visit our Geyser page at Geyser.

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fund slash project slash freedom.

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Or you can send us sats directly to freedom at Geyser.

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fund.

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And for the month of February, Geyser is matching all contributions,

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up to a total of 500, 000 sats.

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This is the best time to support the show and get literally

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double value for your sats.

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You can also support us as you listen by listening to the podcast on Fountain.

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The app is available on Apple and Android and you can stream sats or send a boost.

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It's the easiest way to support the show just by listening normally.

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And if you don't care too much about Luke, you can always visit knutsvanholm.

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com where you can buy my fabulous wine, my books, and a t shirt or two.

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And if you don't feel like supporting your fellow Bitcoiners at all, at least

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like, subscribe, and brush your teeth.

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But seriously, that stuff actually helps.

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It would be great if you could subscribe to the YouTube channel, like the

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videos, send us a comment, or leave us a review if you're listening on Apple

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or Spotify or something like that.

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All this stuff really helps the show, seriously, so yeah, we'd

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appreciate that if you can do that.

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Click the damn bell!

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So thanks for tuning in to the show, and we hope you enjoyed today's episode.

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welcome back to the Freedom Footprint Show, the Bitcoin Philosophy Show with

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Knut Svanholm and me, Luke the pseudo-fin.

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And today our guest is Metamick co-founder and CEO of Geyser, the Bitcoin

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crowdfunding platform that we're happy to be using as the best way to support our

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show, and we're thrilled to have Mik on here to tell us all about the platform

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and his Bitcoin story and all this.

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So, mik, welcome to the Freedom Footprint

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Uh, so good to be here.

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Thank you guys.

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Thanks, Luke.

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Thanks, Knut, for inviting me.

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It's really an honor.

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Yeah, good to see you, Mick.

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We haven't seen you since Lugano, I believe.

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I think it was, yeah, I think you're right.

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Lugano was the, was the last time.

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I still remember the first time we went.

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We were, uh, somewhere in some, uh, street in Riga, uh, discovering weird

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plants on the side corner of the street.

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I remember

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yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's when Izzy.

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Izzy

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Yeah,

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taking a piss in a dark corner somewhere and he comes out with this cannabis plant

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right.

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thingies and he found the in the in the wild.

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He'll see who finds a two meter tall cannabis plant just growing in the wild.

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Yeah, it was weird.

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Yeah, that was a really good introduction to, to you guys.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was.

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That was a fun night.

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I remember that that was a long night.

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My memories from that night are blurry, to say the least.

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Yeah,

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all good fun.

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Yeah, and how?

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How is Geyser doing this these days?

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Like, what's going on

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yeah, so Geyser is, we're always building, always just listening to users, always

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solving bugs, always, you know, making the platform better, but, uh, and lately

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we've been, uh, just, uh, doing just a bit of research in terms of how can we

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move Geyser forward and what's our sort of broader vision and where are we going?

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And, um, we definitely see a need for, uh, More, um, kind of a

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community based approach, you know.

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Gaz is a place where people, you know, send, the creators send their fans to

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support them, obviously, as you guys know.

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but there's the potential to, to make it also more interactive with the,

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you know, making it a place where You know, special, uh, contributors get to

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have special rights to get access to certain, certain information, certain,

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uh, uh, certain contents, um, and kind of creating more of a feeling

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of community for, for the creators.

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So, yeah, sort of exploring, uh, where, where we want to go next, and we're really

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excited to be Yeah, supporting, I think, the hundreds of creators that are earning

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in Bitcoin and, um, yeah, it's really, it's really an honor to be supporting

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this, this, this, this community and this, uh, this, uh, um, this niche

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community that is the Bitcoin community.

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But our aim is to also bring this, the tools that Bitcoin enables

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to the broader market as well.

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So for those of you that don't know that, Geyser is a crowdfunding

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platform similar to Patreon, but with lightning pavements enabled.

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So you connect your lightning wallet to Geyser and you can

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get funded by the community.

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Right, right.

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Yeah, more like, probably more or less between GoFundMe and Kickstarter because

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you can also sell rewards on Geyser.

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Um, but Patreon is a good, uh, is a good point because that's sort of

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trying to move also in, in, in, in that direction in providing subscriptions

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and, um, and, uh, hidden content, uh, for, uh, payroll content for,

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for subscribers and so forth as well.

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yeah, and we started talking a bit about this before we hit record here,

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but during the Canadian trucker protest a bit more than a year back now.

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Right, look, when the hell was that Like two years?

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The time goes too fast.

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22, yeah,

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Yeah, so that's when you guys thought you had just started.

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And this is when they shut down all the funding for the truckers via GoFundMe,

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so that the Canadian population got a reminder that the money in their bank

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accounts are not really theirs because they can't use it as they please.

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But it's not permissionless by any definition of the word.

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So they hopped onto something called Tallycoin, which is another sort of

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crowdfunding platform for Bitcoiners, I guess, but more on-chain variants of

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that's right.

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Yeah, so, so when, when that whole thing happened, Geyser was just in its infancy.

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We had been born, uh, just a week before in a pilot.

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It was just a pilot project.

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There was only one project.

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On Geyser, but was a little input field where you could say, Hey, you

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have an idea, you know, drop your name, drop your idea and we'll, you

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know, get you on boarded because we just wanted to see, is this

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something that people even would want?

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Like, do people care about this stuff?

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Um, and so we've released something super quickly, uh, in just a

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matter of a few months, and we got in a week more than like.

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A hundred, not a week, maybe the first month we got 150 to 100

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requests for creators wanting to use Geyser as a platform.

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and, and that was for us like a signal that, okay, there's,

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there's something here.

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Uh, but on the first week of being live, the whole Trucker.

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Stuff happened with GoFundMe.

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Actually, what happens is like, the whole trucker company happened.

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You had GoFundMe raising funds, right?

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And we're like, oh my god, this is incredible.

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And then a few weeks later, they shut down.

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They froze the funds, right?

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Because people have to understand, when you create a project on GoFundMe,

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You receive the funds in GoFundMe, GoFundMe, uh, uses a third party bank,

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uh, to custody the funds in GoFundMe.

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GoFundMe is essentially like a bank account, and, and that's why they could

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just freeze those funds and they said, okay, we're gonna freeze these funds

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and reuse them for other projects.

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And people were like, you know, don't do that.

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They get sued.

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Um, and then eventually I think they give the funds back to the, the funders.

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But not only did they freeze the GoFundMe funds, they also froze bank

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accounts of those who sent the money.

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And I have friends who sent 10, and their bank accounts were frozen for a week.

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So imagine that, how bizarre is that?

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And so that's why we had built Geyser in a non custodial

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way, built on top of Voltage.

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built on top of, um, uh, of your own node, essentially, you could

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connect to your own node and receive Bitcoin on-chain and on Lightning

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to be fully censorship resistant.

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And that went really well for, a while.

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Um, but yeah, at that point, Tallycoin, you could essentially send donations

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on-chain and you can still can, it's still a functional app, um, platform

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that allows you to do donations on-chain.

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I think also Lightning, if you connect.

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Like a separate, uh, service called, um, goodness, I cannot

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remember the service they use.

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But yeah, so we'll have to kind of do a few more hops, uh, and yeah, and

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so, and I think it worked really well.

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I think there's, um, BDC Sessions, right, who was one of the key

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guys behind the whole initiative.

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Has some, has done some podcasts and talked about his experience and basically

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says like, I think as soon as the government started shutting down, he said,

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like, you know, I was scared for my life.

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I just still, I shot on the project itself, um, uh, in order to just

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Be sure that this one, you know, create troubles for him as well.

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So, the best way to do in these types of ultra sensitive scenarios is to use

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a fully, you know, user owned node, um, uh, like you can do at Geyser,

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or You can also, you know, use, um, you know, BTC, uh, Payserver, right?

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A really good, uh, censorship resistant, censorship resistant option.

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And, Yeah, it's, it's, um, it's, it can, it can get tough, right?

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In terms of government, government seizing funds.

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So, but But Geyser, after Having a node approach, which is fully non

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custodial and censorship resistant, we decided, look, there's actually

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still massive limitations here.

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running a node is not simple.

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Most people were like, no thank you, I have to kind of manage channels to get

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a 1 million sat donation, I need to have 1 million sats in Lightning channels.

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And I don't have anything.

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How do I get started if I don't have anything?

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Voltage is great, but I still have to pay 10 a month to get that going.

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So now we've figured out a solution to allow creators to link their Lightning

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address from their Lightning wallet.

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And just start receiving the funds directly in there.

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And there's a lot of technical complexity with Lightning, but there's, one thing

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that really works is custodial Lightning.

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So it really, really, it really does work with all its limitations.

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I'm not saying that's good.

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00:11:27,621 --> 00:11:29,481
In fact, I definitely recommend to move your funds.

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Uh, out of custodial wallets as much as possible, but it really works in terms

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of usability in terms of mass adoption.

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So, yeah, that's worked really well and that really has helped us scale.

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Now we have over a hundred new creators every month joining Geyser.

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We have, you know, over, uh, you know, sometimes we reach three

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bitcoins in transactions per month.

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So there's a lot of activity.

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Yeah, so you can fund on-chain, and then what we do is we

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swap it over to Lightning.

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So you receive everything in one place.

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Because we don't like the idea of having, you receive your on-chain Bitcoin

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00:12:04,503 --> 00:12:06,943
in one wallet, and you receive your Lightning payments in another wallet.

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Instead, we kind of reconcile it all over into your Lightning wallet.

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okay, yeah, a couple of things come to mind here.

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It's so, it's so funny how, how history is playing out right before

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our eyes and we're in the middle of it just seeing these things happen.

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Like one thing that comes to mind the, the, the steep learning

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curve, right when, when people Realize what's actually going on.

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So you had, when the Ukraine Russia war started, there was a guy I don't remember

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if it was a Russian or a Ukrainian, but someone trying to get out with a

234
00:12:41,786 --> 00:12:48,146
briefcase full of a gold bar, a stack of dollars, a stack of euros and a stack of

235
00:12:48,146 --> 00:12:54,336
rubles, and, of course, he gets stuck in customs and the customs officer takes it

236
00:12:54,336 --> 00:12:58,096
all, or the lion's share of it anyway.

237
00:12:58,913 --> 00:13:02,743
the comments under the tweet and under the picture is just look at this

238
00:13:02,743 --> 00:13:04,833
idiot who can't remember 12 birds.

239
00:13:05,693 --> 00:13:07,723
And People are gonna learn that lesson right.

240
00:13:09,023 --> 00:13:12,403
And the second thing is the, the, of course, the trucker thing, when,

241
00:13:12,423 --> 00:13:17,333
when people realize that their bank accounts weren't theirs, and Then

242
00:13:17,333 --> 00:13:20,973
they, they learn how to Bitcoin pretty fast after a thing like that happens.

243
00:13:21,623 --> 00:13:27,633
So, so it's just so, and I, I think, where we, as I know, I am, as a as a

244
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hardcore Bitcoiner, a bit biased and I think that, like things are already

245
00:13:33,803 --> 00:13:38,123
developed and we've got this already, but we're so early like these things

246
00:13:38,133 --> 00:13:44,833
are just being built and you're one of the the the apps that are Literally

247
00:13:44,843 --> 00:13:48,593
changing the world at the moment, even though it's baby steps at first.

248
00:13:49,083 --> 00:13:51,263
Still, three bit coin is it's three

249
00:13:52,303 --> 00:13:53,213
Yeah, yeah.

250
00:13:54,058 --> 00:13:55,928
Yeah, man, look, it's, it's, it's, you're right.

251
00:13:55,928 --> 00:13:57,638
It's going to, it's going to take a lot of learning.

252
00:13:57,648 --> 00:13:59,888
It's going to take a lot of painful lessons.

253
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:05,240
and the challenges ahead are not, and there's technical challenges too, right?

254
00:14:05,250 --> 00:14:09,649
Like non custodial lightning is challenging, but, uh, uh, my, my

255
00:14:09,649 --> 00:14:14,389
personal perspective and I'm super, you know, super also hardcore Bitcoin maxi.

256
00:14:14,389 --> 00:14:19,659
Like I, I love, you know, I'm for, for self, self, um, self sovereignty,

257
00:14:19,929 --> 00:14:21,119
not censorship resistance.

258
00:14:21,534 --> 00:14:25,604
But if we want to onboard the world, there will have to be some compromises

259
00:14:25,674 --> 00:14:29,984
potentially, and it might take us Decades to figure out a non custodial

260
00:14:29,984 --> 00:14:32,874
solution that works at scale, right?

261
00:14:32,904 --> 00:14:37,424
Because even a non custodial solution, uh, light means solution,

262
00:14:37,974 --> 00:14:41,074
um, wouldn't actually scale to more than a hundred million people.

263
00:14:41,524 --> 00:14:45,694
So custodial, I think we're going to have to reconcile with the idea that there may

264
00:14:45,694 --> 00:14:50,774
be things like Bitcoin banks that custody funds, uh, for, for a lot of people.

265
00:14:51,141 --> 00:14:55,751
but if people have to still, and then as we develop the tools that are non

266
00:14:55,751 --> 00:15:01,571
custodial, that are, that are more, that are more censorship resistant, but these

267
00:15:01,651 --> 00:15:03,301
are being developed, like there's ARK.

268
00:15:03,341 --> 00:15:05,361
I'm really interested in seeing how that goes.

269
00:15:05,871 --> 00:15:10,731
There's, um, all sorts of super smart people that can find the ways forward,

270
00:15:10,911 --> 00:15:13,411
but in any case, Bitcoin is still better.

271
00:15:13,471 --> 00:15:14,491
So like the way that I see it is.

272
00:15:14,961 --> 00:15:19,331
Custodial Bitcoin is still better than non custodial shitcoins, or, or

273
00:15:19,581 --> 00:15:21,151
custodial fiat, you know what I mean?

274
00:15:21,481 --> 00:15:22,321
exactly that.

275
00:15:22,331 --> 00:15:23,441
That's the way I see it too.

276
00:15:23,481 --> 00:15:29,721
Like it's unfortunate that we have to use custodial, but still your, your

277
00:15:29,721 --> 00:15:33,571
stack is the important thing, and that you run your on-chain node and then you

278
00:15:33,571 --> 00:15:38,501
can run custodial and you can have it in flows and outflows there, never if

279
00:15:38,501 --> 00:15:42,351
it becomes too much at some point, just put them in cold storage, do a one-time

280
00:15:42,351 --> 00:15:44,501
payment and then just keep it as a.

281
00:15:45,226 --> 00:15:48,186
I mean, that's the way I do it when I go to conferences and stuff.

282
00:15:48,216 --> 00:15:53,316
Like I I Sell some t-shirts, a book, so whatever, and then I

283
00:15:53,326 --> 00:15:56,656
get a little pocket money for you know, stakes and bears and whatnot.

284
00:15:56,806 --> 00:16:00,458
So it and it works and you know it's all.

285
00:16:00,468 --> 00:16:03,468
There's always a trade-off between convenience and security.

286
00:16:03,478 --> 00:16:03,808
Right,

287
00:16:05,068 --> 00:16:08,208
Yeah, and I'm not, I'm not suggesting we should be complacent, right, or,

288
00:16:08,228 --> 00:16:13,818
or that we should stack our stats in wallets or doshi, not at all.

289
00:16:14,058 --> 00:16:17,408
Um, people should, but, but we also need some easy first steps

290
00:16:17,418 --> 00:16:20,718
for, for a lot of these newbies that, that need to get started.

291
00:16:21,138 --> 00:16:21,888
it's tricky, though.

292
00:16:22,058 --> 00:16:28,818
One thing I noticed is, like I used to, sometimes I recommend products, apps

293
00:16:29,108 --> 00:16:34,668
and stuff and in hindsight, I wish I hadn't, like blockchaininfo, for instance.

294
00:16:34,668 --> 00:16:38,908
In back in 2017 I recommended it to everyone and it fucking sucks.

295
00:16:40,268 --> 00:16:43,578
They went to total shit-con casino in KYC and crap.

296
00:16:44,848 --> 00:16:46,188
Then I recommended Moon.

297
00:16:46,788 --> 00:16:50,368
I still like Moon, but Moon shut down their lightning channels.

298
00:16:50,378 --> 00:16:54,888
So if they got like 10 euros in the lightning payment just to check it out,

299
00:16:55,408 --> 00:16:58,438
that money is gone now because they don't have their lightning channels anymore.

300
00:16:58,958 --> 00:17:03,928
They come to me and ask me okay, what happened?

301
00:17:03,958 --> 00:17:06,958
And I'm like, yeah, they shut down their lightning channels.

302
00:17:06,958 --> 00:17:07,968
Didn't you get the memo?

303
00:17:08,388 --> 00:17:13,098
Aren't you like following every single Bitcoin person on Twitter?

304
00:17:13,528 --> 00:17:14,968
that was blue wallet connected just

305
00:17:14,988 --> 00:17:15,618
Yeah, blue Wall.

306
00:17:15,878 --> 00:17:16,328
you said no,

307
00:17:17,178 --> 00:17:17,748
I said Moon.

308
00:17:17,928 --> 00:17:18,988
Okay, that was Blue Wallet.

309
00:17:18,998 --> 00:17:21,268
Sorry, moon, I love Moon.

310
00:17:23,068 --> 00:17:24,368
I love Blue Wallet as well.

311
00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:34,510
Still, I mean, anub wouldn't understand that they need to keep

312
00:17:34,550 --> 00:17:36,870
updated about their custodial app.

313
00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:41,722
They expect it to be as safe as a bank account and well,

314
00:17:42,312 --> 00:17:43,932
there's a bias there too.

315
00:17:43,932 --> 00:17:46,822
They think their bank account is safer than it is.

316
00:17:47,402 --> 00:17:51,882
But yeah, still, I prefer custodial lightning to fiat.

317
00:17:51,962 --> 00:17:52,822
Custodial fiat.

318
00:17:52,832 --> 00:17:53,572
That's what I'm saying.

319
00:17:55,070 --> 00:17:55,970
we're going with this.

320
00:17:57,250 --> 00:18:00,427
So, Geyser what's coming up ahead Like?

321
00:18:01,387 --> 00:18:02,967
What's on the roadmap?

322
00:18:03,087 --> 00:18:05,157
What's your ambition for the future?

323
00:18:05,457 --> 00:18:07,177
Yeah, so, yeah, so.

324
00:18:08,132 --> 00:18:11,002
So we, for this year, we really focused on making the funding

325
00:18:11,002 --> 00:18:12,442
experience seamless, right?

326
00:18:12,442 --> 00:18:16,452
So we integrated on-chain payments, uh, we integrated, yeah, this lightning

327
00:18:16,452 --> 00:18:21,402
address payment solution, um, that works super, super, super easy for creators,

328
00:18:21,802 --> 00:18:26,762
um, and what we then spent the last three months on, three, four months

329
00:18:26,762 --> 00:18:29,092
on, is, migrating Geyser over to Nostr.

330
00:18:29,792 --> 00:18:34,862
So every Geyser project right now has its own npub And so, what that does

331
00:18:34,862 --> 00:18:36,422
is that it does many, many things.

332
00:18:36,482 --> 00:18:40,152
First of all, it makes the project more censorship resistant.

333
00:18:40,582 --> 00:18:42,642
Because now you can take the private key.

334
00:18:43,287 --> 00:18:47,397
of your project, and if, you know, if the project gets shut down on

335
00:18:47,397 --> 00:18:50,307
Geyser, you can always take it somewhere else if you wanted to.

336
00:18:50,447 --> 00:18:54,532
Like, and it creates the potential, creates the potential for, say, other

337
00:18:54,752 --> 00:19:00,282
crowdfunding platforms to sprout up and start pulling projects from Geyser.

338
00:19:00,352 --> 00:19:02,272
Like, if there's someone else who's like, I want to create another

339
00:19:02,272 --> 00:19:04,422
project, another crowdfunding platform.

340
00:19:04,422 --> 00:19:06,642
Geyser, Geyser has been compromised, right?

341
00:19:06,772 --> 00:19:09,452
We've become too successful, too complacent, we've been captured.

342
00:19:09,827 --> 00:19:14,977
Well, now another platform can just start taking projects, start viewing

343
00:19:15,477 --> 00:19:22,107
activity, all the project data, and displaying it in their own platform.

344
00:19:22,367 --> 00:19:29,047
And even if we were to censor them, that data exists across Nostr relays So that

345
00:19:29,487 --> 00:19:32,927
is great for censorship resistance, but also great for creators because it allows

346
00:19:32,927 --> 00:19:36,437
them to reach more people because every time they write an entry or an update.

347
00:19:36,807 --> 00:19:41,707
That can spread across Nostr, and that means more viewership, more funding,

348
00:19:42,137 --> 00:19:44,337
more, uh, more attention, and so forth.

349
00:19:44,977 --> 00:19:50,597
So, we spent quite a bit of time on that, but we have to still iron out some things.

350
00:19:51,007 --> 00:19:56,067
But we're planning to integrate more Nostr features like notes, posts, on

351
00:19:56,067 --> 00:19:57,627
Geysers, we can write quick updates.

352
00:19:58,077 --> 00:20:02,437
And as I mentioned, trying to learn more about how we can create subscriptions in

353
00:20:02,437 --> 00:20:08,587
some smart ways, uh, and enable You know, say if you're a subscription to Knut's

354
00:20:08,677 --> 00:20:13,237
podcast, you know, you get to see some, some, some, some, uh, paywalled content.

355
00:20:13,847 --> 00:20:14,347
Um,

356
00:20:14,352 --> 00:20:16,792
dancing like you get access to my only

357
00:20:16,807 --> 00:20:17,847
exactly.

358
00:20:18,017 --> 00:20:18,397
Yes.

359
00:20:18,537 --> 00:20:20,297
Who wouldn't want to see Knut dancing, right?

360
00:20:21,107 --> 00:20:24,807
Uh, yeah, yeah, exactly.

361
00:20:24,907 --> 00:20:26,537
So there's stuff that you can do there.

362
00:20:26,567 --> 00:20:29,587
And the point is to kind of learn from what's been happening

363
00:20:29,587 --> 00:20:32,607
in the creator economy, whether it's Kickstarter, Patreon.

364
00:20:33,117 --> 00:20:38,107
And what we see overall as, uh, you know, on the, in the world of the internet is

365
00:20:38,107 --> 00:20:40,327
just the, the power of creators, right?

366
00:20:40,327 --> 00:20:46,377
Like, I, I find it just, I find this so fascinating just to think about how much

367
00:20:46,647 --> 00:20:51,097
the world has changed in the last, say, 30 yeathe thanks to the internet, right?

368
00:20:51,097 --> 00:20:55,112
You, you have first, you have, first you have the birth of social media.

369
00:20:55,827 --> 00:20:56,077
Right?

370
00:20:56,367 --> 00:20:59,917
With Twitter, with Facebook, around 20 or so years ago.

371
00:21:00,427 --> 00:21:03,197
Then, five years after that, you had crowdfunding platforms like

372
00:21:03,227 --> 00:21:06,087
Kickstarter, Indiegogo, and GoFundMe.

373
00:21:06,097 --> 00:21:08,887
It's like, oh, now you can receive money, you know, send a

374
00:21:08,887 --> 00:21:11,257
link to Twitter or to Facebook.

375
00:21:11,397 --> 00:21:15,967
People follow you through the social media platform, they click

376
00:21:15,967 --> 00:21:18,477
on your project and then they fund you on these other platforms.

377
00:21:19,177 --> 00:21:22,713
Then you have content platforms like YouTube, Verizon, YouTube,

378
00:21:22,773 --> 00:21:26,453
Spotify, and all these creators that are creating great content.

379
00:21:26,713 --> 00:21:31,593
They don't just want to send them to like a Kickstarter GoFundMe, they want to send

380
00:21:31,593 --> 00:21:34,753
them to a place where they can actually subscribe and pay recurring payments.

381
00:21:34,753 --> 00:21:41,418
That's where Patreon Onlyfans, Substack, Gumroad, all these are subscription

382
00:21:41,438 --> 00:21:43,638
based, well, Gumroad maybe not so much.

383
00:21:44,478 --> 00:21:48,098
The others are all subscription based models that allow the creator

384
00:21:48,098 --> 00:21:51,808
to monetize in a way that they can't through just a YouTube channel, right?

385
00:21:52,338 --> 00:21:56,948
With YouTube, you can make, you know, thousands of dollars if

386
00:21:56,958 --> 00:21:58,698
your video gets millions of views.

387
00:21:59,268 --> 00:22:02,108
But if you don't get millions of views, if you don't have millions of

388
00:22:02,108 --> 00:22:07,278
subscribers, It's really hard to make a living as a creator, as a content

389
00:22:07,278 --> 00:22:08,738
creator, as a creator in general.

390
00:22:09,228 --> 00:22:12,788
Um, and so, and so, you know, there's all sorts of models, like there's

391
00:22:12,798 --> 00:22:19,448
subscription, there's advertisements, there's donations, uh, and so, um, and so

392
00:22:19,598 --> 00:22:21,498
it's an ecosystem that is in development.

393
00:22:21,538 --> 00:22:24,288
And, you know, there's all sorts of experiments happening.

394
00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:27,985
but now with Bitcoin, you have an even more powerful tool because With

395
00:22:27,985 --> 00:22:29,815
Bitcoin, money flows a lot quicker.

396
00:22:29,935 --> 00:22:32,635
You don't have to put in your credit card details.

397
00:22:32,932 --> 00:22:36,857
you, you, you have, you know, some, even a wallet on your own browser.

398
00:22:37,237 --> 00:22:43,507
Um, like Albi you have, you can send funds not to Kickstarter, like you guys

399
00:22:43,507 --> 00:22:45,597
have a Geyser Lightning address, right?

400
00:22:45,627 --> 00:22:48,727
Which is freedom@geyser.Fund and someone types it in their Wallet of

401
00:22:48,747 --> 00:22:52,907
Satoshi, they, they, they don't have to go to Geyser.Fund to fund you.

402
00:22:53,567 --> 00:22:57,367
It's an incredibly powerful property of interoperability, like you can send

403
00:22:57,367 --> 00:23:03,147
money ubiquitously from wherever, and this Lightning address is the key funding

404
00:23:03,257 --> 00:23:07,507
identifier, and it's just, it's like 100x better than using your credit card.

405
00:23:09,326 --> 00:23:14,656
as creators ourselves, we, I mean, we know that we're playing this game

406
00:23:14,666 --> 00:23:16,926
like we're trying to do it seriously.

407
00:23:16,926 --> 00:23:22,226
So we're trying to run it somewhat as a business and, you know, having sponsors

408
00:23:22,226 --> 00:23:27,676
and all that, and we, of course, everyone who has sponsors says I only is, but I use

409
00:23:27,676 --> 00:23:33,076
all of my sponsors products and there's some ball shaving kit and some stuff like

410
00:23:33,076 --> 00:23:38,296
that that there's no way in hell that they're actually using it, but but we

411
00:23:38,296 --> 00:23:44,246
actually like, have so many synergies with all the, all the people that that have

412
00:23:44,246 --> 00:23:50,256
sponsored us like that we really really like and use their products, because

413
00:23:50,516 --> 00:23:52,306
that this is the bitcoin ecosystem.

414
00:23:52,306 --> 00:23:55,936
Everything's connected right and we're we all benefit from helping one another

415
00:23:55,936 --> 00:24:00,246
and it's such a like we're really trying to tap into that and live the live that

416
00:24:00,246 --> 00:24:02,716
meme as well, because it's so powerful.

417
00:24:03,046 --> 00:24:06,256
We don't have to compete, we can just collaborate, all of us.

418
00:24:06,536 --> 00:24:06,846
It's.

419
00:24:07,046 --> 00:24:08,096
It's just fantastic.

420
00:24:08,486 --> 00:24:10,016
Yeah, we went together, right?

421
00:24:10,686 --> 00:24:19,656
yeah, so, yeah, yeah, we talked to Stefan Livera yesterday and we, we went

422
00:24:19,656 --> 00:24:21,416
down a funny part of the rabbit hole.

423
00:24:21,738 --> 00:24:27,368
If you, if you envision hyperbitcoinization and you know,

424
00:24:27,588 --> 00:24:29,688
number go up forever and all of this.

425
00:24:30,251 --> 00:24:36,221
I can see a subscription model that is possible with bitcoin but not possible

426
00:24:36,231 --> 00:24:38,771
with fiat, and that is a one-time payment.

427
00:24:39,011 --> 00:24:44,641
If for a lifetime subscription, I mean, that exists in fiat also, but

428
00:24:44,641 --> 00:24:48,071
it's very rare because you have to put up a hell of a lot of money for

429
00:24:48,071 --> 00:24:50,201
that to make any type of sense at all.

430
00:24:50,721 --> 00:24:58,041
But in bitcoin, given that the receiver believes bitcoin to go up forever, the

431
00:24:58,041 --> 00:25:05,090
bar is much lower to where you just send a bitcoin donation once and there you go.

432
00:25:05,170 --> 00:25:10,360
That's, that's all the bitcoiner needs, and I think that's just

433
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,320
so fascinating to think about.

434
00:25:12,330 --> 00:25:14,710
Like, what happens then?

435
00:25:15,710 --> 00:25:19,560
do we just fund one another once and then we'd just be awesome

436
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:20,650
to one another after that?

437
00:25:20,740 --> 00:25:21,630
Like, is that it?

438
00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:21,980
Like?

439
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:22,860
How does that

440
00:25:24,490 --> 00:25:25,660
Yeah, it's a good question, man.

441
00:25:26,020 --> 00:25:27,310
It's something I've been thinking about a lot.

442
00:25:27,550 --> 00:25:28,940
Like, what is the cadence?

443
00:25:30,010 --> 00:25:30,850
How is that important?

444
00:25:30,850 --> 00:25:33,690
In fiat, it's different than in bitcoin.

445
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:39,280
But in bitcoin, I feel like as much as I like to believe that that bitcoin will go

446
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:46,965
up forever the human brain the experience of the human brain is such that Actually,

447
00:25:46,975 --> 00:25:48,265
that, that will take time, right?

448
00:25:48,315 --> 00:25:52,865
And, and because Bitcoin goes through these bear cycles and the

449
00:25:52,865 --> 00:25:56,335
bear cycles feels like, feel like infinity as well, to some extent.

450
00:25:56,655 --> 00:25:59,575
And so four years, you have to think four years ahead of time of what that

451
00:25:59,575 --> 00:26:03,655
might be worth and maybe multiply that by, by some, by some amounts.

452
00:26:04,444 --> 00:26:08,964
but yeah, but we don't, but we don't know, how much that, that,

453
00:26:08,984 --> 00:26:10,944
that, that multiplier actually is.

454
00:26:11,464 --> 00:26:14,664
And in any case, in four years, depending also on what age you are,

455
00:26:14,864 --> 00:26:17,764
four years can be a hell of a lot of time, and so you might not be thinking

456
00:26:17,764 --> 00:26:21,744
that far ahead, but for those who have a low time preference, uh, then yeah,

457
00:26:21,744 --> 00:26:23,444
definitely, I can see that happening,

458
00:26:24,369 --> 00:26:27,199
the real power there, as I see it, is that you can have both.

459
00:26:27,579 --> 00:26:32,189
You can have both a cash flow in flow and a cash outflow, and then

460
00:26:32,189 --> 00:26:36,899
you can also have your, like your stack growing from one time payments

461
00:26:36,899 --> 00:26:39,619
every now and then, the one does not,

462
00:26:41,124 --> 00:26:41,894
exclude the others.

463
00:26:42,259 --> 00:26:43,459
exclude the others don't know.

464
00:26:43,469 --> 00:26:46,159
Because you can have all of it.

465
00:26:46,749 --> 00:26:53,739
All it requires is like okay, I need this to exist during these cycles,

466
00:26:54,749 --> 00:26:58,209
but to survive after the cycle and to thrive after the cycle, I need

467
00:26:58,209 --> 00:26:59,889
to have this mindset of as well.

468
00:27:00,469 --> 00:27:05,399
I need to yeah, so all of these basic, basic theories of economics

469
00:27:05,399 --> 00:27:06,689
that I was taught as a child.

470
00:27:06,689 --> 00:27:12,389
When you can still make money from interest by by just saving money in a

471
00:27:12,399 --> 00:27:14,259
bank account, no one can do that anymore.

472
00:27:14,579 --> 00:27:20,359
But we were told, like pay 10% to yourself, save 10% for yourself or

473
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,029
whatever you make, which is very good advice if you're on a Bitcoin

474
00:27:24,029 --> 00:27:27,299
standard, if you're on a fiat standard, it's not because you're

475
00:27:27,399 --> 00:27:28,929
just gonna lose that money over time.

476
00:27:30,389 --> 00:27:32,939
But, but it poses some fascinating questions.

477
00:27:32,949 --> 00:27:35,469
Like makes you think about what.

478
00:27:36,149 --> 00:27:41,039
Yeah, it's a weird future to go into, but but like I would say, like, when

479
00:27:41,159 --> 00:27:44,949
you're talking about, like the internet, changing things over the last 30 years,

480
00:27:45,429 --> 00:27:50,919
but I mean post lockdowns it has been more powerful than ever with these.

481
00:27:51,959 --> 00:27:55,639
This thing, for instance, riverside, we asked just talking to one another

482
00:27:56,069 --> 00:28:00,059
by the click of a button and recording high quality content, of course, the

483
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,069
highest quality content, since it does.

484
00:28:02,449 --> 00:28:07,298
But it's absolutely amazing that we can do this and that we

485
00:28:07,298 --> 00:28:10,458
can do Bitcoin back and forth.

486
00:28:10,608 --> 00:28:13,208
It's truly erases borders in a way.

487
00:28:13,208 --> 00:28:14,528
That just wasn't there

488
00:28:15,313 --> 00:28:19,893
Totally, man, totally, and there's, and there's, just like, people were mind blown

489
00:28:19,923 --> 00:28:25,378
about, Say Airbnb, like, you know, you kind of think of Airbnb as a, as an idea,

490
00:28:25,378 --> 00:28:28,428
as a business model before the internet.

491
00:28:28,428 --> 00:28:31,448
And even when the internet was born, it would have been inconceivable.

492
00:28:31,808 --> 00:28:34,798
And even when the guys started that Airbnb, it's called Airbnb because

493
00:28:34,838 --> 00:28:36,788
they, you could rent air mattresses.

494
00:28:37,453 --> 00:28:40,863
But they couldn't even conceive of how big it could be, right?

495
00:28:41,033 --> 00:28:44,543
And this is true for so much in technology, like, it's like, it's a

496
00:28:44,543 --> 00:28:49,613
lot of just trial and error, people trying shit and stuff working, stuff

497
00:28:49,653 --> 00:28:53,643
not working, and then realizing actually there's something much, much greater.

498
00:28:53,773 --> 00:28:56,623
And, um, and I think the same is true with Bitcoin and, you

499
00:28:56,853 --> 00:28:58,383
know, Bitcoin businesses as well.

500
00:28:58,383 --> 00:29:01,783
There's, there's, there's so much potential growth and new things

501
00:29:01,783 --> 00:29:02,583
that can be done with Bitcoin.

502
00:29:03,373 --> 00:29:08,543
Uh, as a, as a monetary technology, but as also as technology technology,

503
00:29:08,913 --> 00:29:12,863
that's like programmable money that we are able to, you know, uh,

504
00:29:13,073 --> 00:29:15,863
self custody, stand at our will.

505
00:29:16,313 --> 00:29:18,583
And yeah, it's going to be super interesting.

506
00:29:18,653 --> 00:29:21,853
I mean, it is already super interesting, but who knows what

507
00:29:21,853 --> 00:29:26,093
even we can ideate, uh, you know, magic going forward, 10, 20 years.

508
00:29:27,328 --> 00:29:32,428
just as a communication snap work, it enables so much like ways

509
00:29:32,538 --> 00:29:35,608
of interacting with one another simply weren't possible before.

510
00:29:36,218 --> 00:29:41,208
Like it used to be a hassle to send a small payment from one country to another,

511
00:29:41,328 --> 00:29:47,328
or or a large payment for that, for that matter, but now it isn't like not at all.

512
00:29:47,468 --> 00:29:49,418
It's super duper simple.

513
00:29:51,608 --> 00:29:54,908
Yeah, changing the world one planet at a

514
00:29:56,123 --> 00:29:56,713
Absolutely.

515
00:29:56,773 --> 00:30:00,013
And maybe just to talk a bit about Geyser here as well, because, you know,

516
00:30:00,013 --> 00:30:03,103
we realized actually only a few months after we started building Geyser that.

517
00:30:03,623 --> 00:30:06,653
that Kickstarter and GoFundMe were only accessible in 30 countries.

518
00:30:08,693 --> 00:30:13,573
So like if you're in Brazil or Nigeria, you couldn't create a project

519
00:30:14,233 --> 00:30:15,963
on, and raise money on GoFundMe.

520
00:30:17,773 --> 00:30:20,353
And, and we realized like, that's bizarre.

521
00:30:20,753 --> 00:30:22,623
Like, that's absolutely bizarre.

522
00:30:23,503 --> 00:30:26,783
Um, and then Patreon was able to figure something out, but

523
00:30:26,783 --> 00:30:28,523
it's super, super challenging.

524
00:30:29,058 --> 00:30:31,848
To do it, you have to be KYC'd if you're, you know, in third

525
00:30:31,848 --> 00:30:34,899
world countries and so forth, but it's still a horrible experience.

526
00:30:34,909 --> 00:30:39,489
So, Bitcoin really, really, like, saves, saves mainly that because at the end

527
00:30:39,489 --> 00:30:43,139
of the day in the West, we still do have a lot of these tools and pretty,

528
00:30:43,139 --> 00:30:48,109
pretty powerful and useful, but in other parts of the world, um, where the

529
00:30:48,119 --> 00:30:50,379
banking system isn't as sophisticated.

530
00:30:50,664 --> 00:30:54,804
And then also, it's not even just that, but one of the financial infrastructure

531
00:30:54,804 --> 00:31:01,154
that exists today, PayPal, Stripe, they, they're sort of, there's massive

532
00:31:01,154 --> 00:31:04,469
regulatory capture and they're not really allowed to I'm not going to

533
00:31:04,469 --> 00:31:08,639
extend their services beyond because they're deemed to be high risk, right?

534
00:31:08,699 --> 00:31:14,019
So, I actually used to work in a bank and remember once hearing this

535
00:31:14,049 --> 00:31:20,139
thing, Oh, but we cannot allow our payment channels to open to, you

536
00:31:20,139 --> 00:31:23,579
know, this country in Africa because, you know, there could be terrorism.

537
00:31:23,879 --> 00:31:29,189
So, this excuse is just It's just, uh, it's just an insane way of just

538
00:31:29,199 --> 00:31:31,619
perpetuating financial apartheid, right?

539
00:31:31,619 --> 00:31:33,439
That's what Ray Youssef calls it.

540
00:31:33,439 --> 00:31:34,739
I think it's absolutely spot on.

541
00:31:34,879 --> 00:31:38,119
Financial apartheid is Uh, a really good way of putting it because

542
00:31:38,119 --> 00:31:41,449
it's, it's, it's really dividing the world into different caps.

543
00:31:41,659 --> 00:31:46,449
You know, you cannot use digital money and now we have Bitcoin.

544
00:31:46,449 --> 00:31:48,659
It's like, well, now everyone gets digital money.

545
00:31:49,439 --> 00:31:49,979
Thankfully.

546
00:31:53,789 --> 00:31:54,779
fascinating stuff.

547
00:33:03,733 --> 00:33:03,883
yeah.

548
00:33:03,883 --> 00:33:07,823
Why don't we take this in the direction we're usually supposed to start with, but

549
00:33:07,823 --> 00:33:10,353
we always skip because Canute has ADD?

550
00:33:10,903 --> 00:33:14,623
Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, mick, your

551
00:33:14,623 --> 00:33:16,783
introduction how you got

552
00:33:16,943 --> 00:33:17,373
about that.

553
00:33:17,980 --> 00:34:34,858
Make you,

554
00:34:35,043 --> 00:34:40,133
and it has this democratizing effect and wealth generating

555
00:34:40,133 --> 00:34:41,543
effect for all of humanity.

556
00:34:41,923 --> 00:34:45,703
And I just, for my first time in my life, even though I had studied economics,

557
00:34:46,163 --> 00:34:50,713
even though, you know, I was told, you know, about the power of technology, I

558
00:34:50,713 --> 00:34:55,043
didn't really, I really only understood it then, like how, how, how powerful it

559
00:34:55,043 --> 00:34:58,263
can be in terms of bringing up everyone.

560
00:34:58,958 --> 00:35:01,748
Um, and then a few months after that I learned about Bitcoin.

561
00:35:01,918 --> 00:35:05,808
I learned, I learned about it and I had been introduced to Bitcoin

562
00:35:05,808 --> 00:35:07,948
in 2010 in my university dorm room.

563
00:35:08,108 --> 00:35:10,308
My friend told me, hey Mike, let's buy some Bitcoins.

564
00:35:10,828 --> 00:35:14,988
And I immediately thought, I don't know how, but I just, my association

565
00:35:14,988 --> 00:35:17,498
was this is sort of virtual money that anyone can fuck with.

566
00:35:18,308 --> 00:35:22,388
And then when I learned about it again in 2016, 2017, I was like, oh, wow, this is,

567
00:35:23,078 --> 00:35:24,758
this is money that nobody can fuck with.

568
00:35:25,468 --> 00:35:27,148
Um, and I, I love that.

569
00:35:27,148 --> 00:35:30,528
I love the idea of, of, of, of something that, that cannot

570
00:35:30,528 --> 00:35:33,468
be tampered with, whether it's governments, whether it's corporations.

571
00:35:34,043 --> 00:35:37,563
And what really lured me in as well were the memes, like, seeing all these crazy

572
00:35:37,563 --> 00:35:42,423
memes of these crazy people on Twitter, uh, saying this, you know, like, just all

573
00:35:42,423 --> 00:35:47,663
these Pepe, uh, uh, memes, all these memes about, you know, not being able to And the

574
00:35:47,663 --> 00:35:51,573
Neo meme really, really got to me, the Neo meme, you know, are we going to be able

575
00:35:51,573 --> 00:35:53,363
to sell Bitcoin for a million dollars?

576
00:35:54,123 --> 00:35:55,433
No, when you're ready, you're not going to have to.

577
00:35:55,433 --> 00:35:58,963
At that point, I was like, okay, these guys are either crazy, or they've

578
00:35:58,963 --> 00:36:03,153
understood something so, so powerful, and Luckily enough, I was in a time

579
00:36:03,153 --> 00:36:08,163
of my life that I was sort of humble and open to, to being wrong because

580
00:36:08,523 --> 00:36:11,823
everything I've been taught, you know, not everything, but a lot, you know,

581
00:36:11,823 --> 00:36:16,843
economics, you know, as a lot of it had to go down the trash and be challenged.

582
00:36:17,313 --> 00:36:22,813
Um, but luckily anthropology, although it has a lot of flaws, helped me

583
00:36:22,813 --> 00:36:24,193
to kind of basically say, okay.

584
00:36:24,508 --> 00:36:25,778
What if these guys are right?

585
00:36:25,818 --> 00:36:30,228
Well, let's consider the possibility that they're right and, um, and that

586
00:36:30,328 --> 00:36:32,108
Bitcoin really is, is, is money.

587
00:36:32,598 --> 00:36:36,428
And, um, and so, yeah, so with that, I went down the rabbit hole, and then I

588
00:36:36,428 --> 00:36:42,618
ended up, and at that point, I was working on UX design, user research, um, kind of

589
00:36:42,728 --> 00:36:46,738
the design side of technology, because I really thought at that point that You

590
00:36:46,738 --> 00:36:51,558
know, uh, uh, there's something quite, quite good, uh, like morally good about

591
00:36:51,668 --> 00:36:53,908
building, building tools for people.

592
00:36:54,010 --> 00:36:57,744
and I think building is, I think what you guys do, for example, education,

593
00:36:57,754 --> 00:37:00,734
that's building, like, that's absolutely building, so, so powerful.

594
00:37:01,114 --> 00:37:03,174
And then there's tools, and there's information, and

595
00:37:03,174 --> 00:37:04,214
then all of this can help.

596
00:37:04,524 --> 00:37:06,314
Rise Humanity, uh, I think.

597
00:37:06,814 --> 00:37:10,964
And so, after that I worked in so many different companies, I worked in fintech,

598
00:37:11,144 --> 00:37:16,034
uh, I worked in, uh, and ended up also working in crypto for a year, which was

599
00:37:16,034 --> 00:37:18,744
really an ethereal startup, God forbid.

600
00:37:19,044 --> 00:37:25,154
Um, but, uh, it was, it was, I know, I know, uh, I lash myself every morning.

601
00:37:26,044 --> 00:37:27,394
But no, it's funny.

602
00:37:27,944 --> 00:37:30,104
Actually, I was very much a Bitcoiner.

603
00:37:30,104 --> 00:37:31,174
I was like, let's see here what we can learn.

604
00:37:31,184 --> 00:37:34,864
And there's definitely a lot, a lot of products, a lot of great tools

605
00:37:35,004 --> 00:37:37,414
that have been built on Ethereum.

606
00:37:37,494 --> 00:37:40,424
There's all sorts of things that I thought inspired me.

607
00:37:40,424 --> 00:37:42,604
There were some cool crowdfunding platforms out there.

608
00:37:43,524 --> 00:37:45,284
I was like, why is this not in Bitcoin?

609
00:37:45,294 --> 00:37:47,414
Why these tools don't exist in Bitcoin?

610
00:37:48,124 --> 00:37:49,864
And so, and so I was like, that's it.

611
00:37:49,884 --> 00:37:50,884
You know, I'm done here.

612
00:37:50,904 --> 00:37:51,864
I'm going to start building them.

613
00:37:52,104 --> 00:37:55,319
I'm going to start building them, a lot of these tools, uh, a cross funding

614
00:37:55,359 --> 00:37:57,209
platform on Bitcoin because it's needed.

615
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,009
And we need that creator economy on Bitcoin.

616
00:37:59,891 --> 00:38:03,451
so yeah, I decided to kind of, uh, quit my other job and just start

617
00:38:03,451 --> 00:38:05,451
focusing on, on Geyser at the point.

618
00:38:06,204 --> 00:38:10,814
super, super thankful for, for this and, uh, super excited every day to

619
00:38:10,854 --> 00:38:12,814
be, to be helping build on Bitcoin.

620
00:38:12,814 --> 00:38:14,354
It's an absolute privilege.

621
00:38:15,966 --> 00:38:17,776
super cool, cool story.

622
00:38:17,866 --> 00:38:23,796
And yeah, as you say, like, an open mind is important, but it's useless

623
00:38:23,796 --> 00:38:25,616
if you're not intellectually honest.

624
00:38:26,086 --> 00:38:30,901
Like, as Terry Pratchett said, the problem with an open mind is that

625
00:38:30,986 --> 00:38:49,951
people would come along and try to put stuff in it like Ethereum,

626
00:38:50,031 --> 00:38:53,961
mention lightning to a guy named Ethereum, he will sort of literally

627
00:38:53,961 --> 00:38:54,851
just put his head in the sand.

628
00:38:54,911 --> 00:38:56,441
He'll, like, act as if that didn't exist.

629
00:38:56,971 --> 00:38:58,501
They never talk about it, right?

630
00:38:58,641 --> 00:39:03,087
And their solutions, their layer 2s are built on blockchains, they

631
00:39:03,087 --> 00:39:06,007
have their own shift coins as well.

632
00:39:06,457 --> 00:39:11,697
Um, it's, it's, it's an absolute aberration of, of, of everything,

633
00:39:11,697 --> 00:39:14,727
it's like they're proprietary, closed, they have several layer

634
00:39:14,727 --> 00:39:16,087
2s that don't speak to each other.

635
00:39:16,707 --> 00:39:21,227
Like, and I started realizing what this was, just like a casino of sorts.

636
00:39:22,267 --> 00:39:26,077
Um, a lot of gambling, just a lot of gambling, a lot of, you know, JPEGs,

637
00:39:26,587 --> 00:39:30,234
and at first sometimes You know, it can be fun, but then it's like, what

638
00:39:30,234 --> 00:39:31,544
the fuck are we doing here, guys?

639
00:39:31,554 --> 00:39:32,714
Like, what's the point?

640
00:39:33,544 --> 00:39:35,034
Like, what are we trying to do?

641
00:39:35,074 --> 00:39:39,684
Are we trying to really, like, make this a better world where we create

642
00:39:39,684 --> 00:39:41,694
money for the entirety of humanity?

643
00:39:42,114 --> 00:39:45,594
Are we trying here to change the world and make the world a

644
00:39:45,594 --> 00:39:47,419
better place through sound money?

645
00:39:47,879 --> 00:39:54,709
And that, that idealism, those, those, that ethics is completely lacking, right?

646
00:39:54,829 --> 00:39:57,349
Or it's, it's very superficial because they use the word

647
00:39:57,349 --> 00:40:04,689
decentralization as a, as a, as a surrogate for, for, for freedom.

648
00:40:04,949 --> 00:40:06,849
And it's not because it's not true decentralization.

649
00:40:08,049 --> 00:40:12,639
So, yeah, so I was completely out of place and that's why I wasn't,

650
00:40:13,259 --> 00:40:14,279
yeah, I wasn't very welcome.

651
00:40:14,804 --> 00:40:14,984
the.

652
00:40:14,994 --> 00:40:18,354
This pisses me off so much because, like, first of all, the theorem

653
00:40:18,354 --> 00:40:22,244
isn't decentralized at all, so they're pretending that the users

654
00:40:22,244 --> 00:40:25,824
are decentralized somehow or in, like this world computer narrative,

655
00:40:25,824 --> 00:40:30,414
they add on everything but, like, the decentralization in Bitcoin is an

656
00:40:30,414 --> 00:40:35,484
unfortunate means to a much greater end, which is some money for the world.

657
00:40:35,874 --> 00:40:38,494
Sensorship, resistant, peer-to-peer all that's good stuff.

658
00:40:39,694 --> 00:40:40,804
You can have them in your head.

659
00:40:40,814 --> 00:40:46,226
But if we, it's Unfortunate that we need the decentralization, because the

660
00:40:46,226 --> 00:40:48,406
decentralization makes it slow and clunky.

661
00:40:49,716 --> 00:40:53,306
But we need it because we can't trust people with money, because

662
00:40:54,196 --> 00:40:58,066
Absolute crap corrupt and makes everything crap and all this crap,

663
00:40:58,511 --> 00:40:59,371
That's the whole point.

664
00:40:59,371 --> 00:41:03,791
That's the whole point of the Bitcoin, uh, both blockchain and the proof of

665
00:41:03,791 --> 00:41:06,451
work, right, is that it's, it's reliable.

666
00:41:06,471 --> 00:41:08,961
That's the only feature that it needs because reliability

667
00:41:08,961 --> 00:41:11,431
is fucking hard to get.

668
00:41:11,701 --> 00:41:16,591
And the only way to get it is through a lot of work and, uh, shit everything else,

669
00:41:16,641 --> 00:41:17,961
right, because that's the key trade off.

670
00:41:18,366 --> 00:41:22,016
yeah, and you can only get it once, because all it is is a number on the

671
00:41:22,016 --> 00:41:27,616
internet that doesn't change and Any, any copy of that is redundant by definition.

672
00:41:29,156 --> 00:41:31,036
So, yeah, well, there's that.

673
00:41:31,606 --> 00:41:37,406
Here's the thought I had before that I lost about the when the ADD kicked in,

674
00:41:37,711 --> 00:41:40,191
like, I think a lot of the problems with these, like I think a lot of the problems

675
00:41:40,191 --> 00:41:47,191
with these older things like PayPal and GoFundMe and whatnot and Also Robinhood,

676
00:41:47,211 --> 00:41:52,471
for that matter like when, when they when the whole GameStop stock thing

677
00:41:52,621 --> 00:41:57,521
people were hodling and using the hodl meme and all this and then they all got.

678
00:41:59,951 --> 00:42:03,671
Then they were all surprised when they were rug pulled, like you could

679
00:42:03,671 --> 00:42:06,241
have done this with something that they couldn't take away from you.

680
00:42:06,241 --> 00:42:09,851
You can do the exact same on Bitcoin over and over again, and you guys just don't

681
00:42:09,861 --> 00:42:13,611
realize that that's a fact, and but.

682
00:42:13,611 --> 00:42:18,441
But the thing I thought about was with the other things is that a lot of

683
00:42:18,451 --> 00:42:24,611
people, in a lot of cases, you need to be a company in order to make money.

684
00:42:24,991 --> 00:42:29,841
So for an individual, an individual needs to start a company in the country

685
00:42:30,091 --> 00:42:36,080
they're in, and that's usually a tedious and quite pricey thing to do from For

686
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,750
most people, if, if you're 18 years old and you just finished school and

687
00:42:39,790 --> 00:42:45,990
like, that's not something you just go and do for most people, and so then if

688
00:42:45,990 --> 00:42:49,300
you start making some serious money, you can get into a lot of tax trouble.

689
00:42:49,300 --> 00:42:54,360
If you don't, if you don't have a company In Bitcoin, there's no difference

690
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:55,930
between a company and a person.

691
00:42:55,990 --> 00:42:59,900
It's just a fucking telegram group and that's it, and you

692
00:42:59,900 --> 00:43:04,400
don't need a board, you don't need accounting, you don't need anything.

693
00:43:04,910 --> 00:43:08,710
You just need you know your brain, and maybe some other

694
00:43:08,710 --> 00:43:11,620
people maybe not like that's all.

695
00:43:11,730 --> 00:43:17,670
That's true Everywhere now, and the regulators will have to to realize that

696
00:43:17,670 --> 00:43:35,203
that's the world we're living in already.

697
00:43:35,235 --> 00:43:39,035
start Geyser, because he just sort of helped me understand

698
00:43:39,035 --> 00:43:39,705
how powerful this was.

699
00:43:39,715 --> 00:43:42,735
He said, literally, anyone can start a company with Bitcoin.

700
00:43:42,745 --> 00:43:45,185
You don't need a banking license to be a crowdfunding platform.

701
00:43:45,185 --> 00:43:47,775
He didn't say this, but you don't need a banking license to operate.

702
00:43:47,795 --> 00:43:49,265
You don't need to apply to a bank.

703
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:54,200
You don't need, you need, you, it's permissionless, you can just start

704
00:43:54,250 --> 00:43:58,510
building a product and, and, and transmitting payments, receiving

705
00:43:58,510 --> 00:44:04,020
payments, et cetera, without, without a banking approval and to think that

706
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,270
GoFundMe, Kickstarter, when they started, like, I have immense respect

707
00:44:07,270 --> 00:44:11,120
for them as well, because when they started, they must have, they must have

708
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:12,590
gotten some sort of massive success.

709
00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:13,920
Partnership.

710
00:44:13,930 --> 00:44:18,940
Like, they must have paid so much money to get these, these banking partners

711
00:44:19,260 --> 00:44:21,610
to, to do what they were looking for.

712
00:44:22,220 --> 00:44:25,570
Um, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's insane.

713
00:44:25,570 --> 00:44:29,400
Just the amount of effort, probably months, years to get this bank,

714
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:30,660
banking partnership in place.

715
00:44:31,490 --> 00:44:33,060
To us, nothing.

716
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,470
We just, just connected to Bitcoin.

717
00:44:36,290 --> 00:44:37,770
We just connected to Bitcoin, right?

718
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:42,120
And, uh, it's very, very low, low, low, low, low, low cost and infrastructure.

719
00:44:43,060 --> 00:44:48,350
Luckily, we also were able to build on top of an already existing Bitcoin

720
00:44:48,350 --> 00:44:52,480
infrastructure like Voltage, which is awesome for routing payments and running

721
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:53,860
a node, that really helps as well.

722
00:44:55,540 --> 00:44:59,920
But yeah, regulators have no idea, like, what's coming.

723
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:07,030
There's going to be an explosion of just products, services, tools that

724
00:45:07,030 --> 00:45:09,250
you can plug and play on the internet.

725
00:45:10,860 --> 00:45:15,680
when they hop in and try to regulate it, it will already be in place, like

726
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,460
it's already there and it's already so obvious that it's a better solution.

727
00:45:20,070 --> 00:45:29,610
It's like when they tried to stop IP telephony, like all the phone companies

728
00:45:29,620 --> 00:45:32,690
had to surrender at some point because it's just obvious that the internet

729
00:45:32,690 --> 00:45:36,060
is better than using dinosaur shit.

730
00:45:36,250 --> 00:45:39,380
Like the same is true for money, of course.

731
00:45:39,980 --> 00:45:42,590
Yeah, yeah, it's great.

732
00:46:58,426 --> 00:47:28,086
you,

733
00:47:35,104 --> 00:47:39,534
and it's been, as I say, yeah, bear markets are for builders and it's amazing

734
00:47:39,534 --> 00:47:43,494
that we've done so much, everything we've done so far has been in a bear market.

735
00:47:43,814 --> 00:47:49,474
So, in some way, I have no idea what to expect, um, uh, as to what the

736
00:47:49,474 --> 00:47:51,564
next bull market will, will look like.

737
00:47:51,994 --> 00:47:56,014
Uh, we know Bitcoin works through science cycles and, That's, you know, it's

738
00:47:56,014 --> 00:47:57,384
going to probably do its thing, right?

739
00:47:58,024 --> 00:48:03,954
Um, I don't know, yeah, I think, I think it could, it's interesting, right?

740
00:48:04,084 --> 00:48:08,554
I think with this whole ETF stuff, it's a chance, it's possible that I, I think

741
00:48:08,594 --> 00:48:12,244
the way that it's been approved, I'm quite cynical with this stuff, right?

742
00:48:12,609 --> 00:48:15,869
So, the reason it's been approved is because at the end of the

743
00:48:15,869 --> 00:48:21,319
day, Bitcoin as an ETF is really just a speculative asset, right?

744
00:48:21,319 --> 00:48:27,889
So, it's basically been approved by the Wall Street bros, right?

745
00:48:28,069 --> 00:48:30,599
Just like, just let us gamble with Bitcoin regulators, right?

746
00:48:30,599 --> 00:48:33,279
And the regulators are like, ah, we don't like Bitcoin, but

747
00:48:33,299 --> 00:48:34,349
fine, we'll let you do that.

748
00:48:34,349 --> 00:48:37,139
Because in any case, they make the capital gains, right?

749
00:48:37,309 --> 00:48:40,469
Every time the data gets traded and they make money from that too.

750
00:48:41,184 --> 00:48:46,254
Um, but, but I think it's just, again, Bitcoin doing it's thing and sort of

751
00:48:46,634 --> 00:48:51,634
Being this mirror where everyone gets to see what they want and, and then just

752
00:48:51,654 --> 00:48:57,854
expanding its, its breadth, expanding its, its, um, its adoption in all forms.

753
00:48:58,194 --> 00:49:01,454
but ultimately what I am interested in, and I definitely follow Ray

754
00:49:01,464 --> 00:49:05,734
Youssef here quite a lot, is I see Bitcoin as, as money, as like, as,

755
00:49:05,734 --> 00:49:07,944
as peer to peer electronic cash.

756
00:49:08,314 --> 00:49:14,384
That people should use to trade, to exchange, that nobody can dictate,

757
00:49:14,484 --> 00:49:15,644
right, what people are trading.

758
00:49:15,654 --> 00:49:19,674
And I, uh, I, that's what I'm for, and that's why, that's what we call Geyser.

759
00:49:20,104 --> 00:49:24,604
And I think it's, you know, that's what we have to really keep pushing and

760
00:49:24,644 --> 00:49:28,094
try to get Bitcoin as a legal standard in as many countries as possible.

761
00:49:28,124 --> 00:49:29,724
Because that's what Bitcoin is meant to be.

762
00:49:30,344 --> 00:49:34,564
So, although I don't, I don't really give a shit about the ETF per se, I see

763
00:49:34,564 --> 00:49:39,644
it as again, a further infiltration tool by Bitcoin to increase its own adoption.

764
00:49:40,298 --> 00:49:44,158
and, um, and yeah, it's possible that it'll, it'll even lead to even greater

765
00:49:44,158 --> 00:49:48,338
highs with the bull market, and that people will get wrecked and, and

766
00:49:48,338 --> 00:49:51,648
try to realize, okay, what the fuck is this, and start paying attention

767
00:49:51,658 --> 00:49:54,998
and start doing the research and listening to Knut and Luke's podcast.

768
00:49:55,588 --> 00:49:58,818
Um, so that's sort of, I don't know, I see that as the same.

769
00:49:59,208 --> 00:50:02,238
Same, that, the same, same thing happening, right?

770
00:50:02,238 --> 00:50:10,218
The same, uh, cycle of, greater attention, greater awareness, you know, wrecked.

771
00:50:10,518 --> 00:50:14,168
Education building and so forth.

772
00:50:14,168 --> 00:50:17,708
And this is just like a further escalation of that, which is incredible.

773
00:50:19,308 --> 00:50:22,838
so, yeah, I mean, in terms of, I don't know if that's sort of what

774
00:50:23,078 --> 00:50:27,298
answers the question to where we're going, but, uh, I think, I

775
00:50:27,298 --> 00:50:28,548
think that's, I think that's that.

776
00:50:28,548 --> 00:50:30,878
I'm not sure in terms of numbers what we should target.

777
00:50:30,878 --> 00:50:31,468
I don't know.

778
00:50:32,065 --> 00:50:33,725
no, but that's great.

779
00:50:33,755 --> 00:50:37,945
Like there are so many different angles to view bitcoin from.

780
00:50:37,955 --> 00:50:43,175
Like some view as love it, as a savings technology, and you, as you say, you're

781
00:50:43,175 --> 00:50:49,655
in on team cash and the international friction, less payments, and there's

782
00:50:49,685 --> 00:50:55,045
like just so many different ways to look at this thing and and learn from it.

783
00:50:55,930 --> 00:50:56,260
Totally.

784
00:50:56,430 --> 00:50:57,490
It's great saving technology.

785
00:50:57,490 --> 00:50:58,070
Absolutely.

786
00:50:58,100 --> 00:51:02,060
But if we don't use it as a means of payment, um,

787
00:51:02,555 --> 00:51:02,695
Uh,

788
00:51:02,820 --> 00:51:04,040
it's, it's going to die.

789
00:51:04,050 --> 00:51:05,340
I think I'm afraid it's going to die.

790
00:51:06,515 --> 00:51:11,655
I don't know that, I don't know if it's gonna die, but but uh, but

791
00:51:11,665 --> 00:51:16,575
we're, we're sort of missing out on a, on a great feature, a great

792
00:51:16,675 --> 00:51:18,495
functionality of the thing, like that.

793
00:51:18,985 --> 00:51:22,095
That's what it was built for to be teleportable.

794
00:51:22,105 --> 00:51:34,749
That's one of the reasons why we value it and can save in it,

795
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:40,123
belief that, yeah, who knows if it'll die or not, probably not, of course

796
00:51:40,123 --> 00:51:45,850
not, but, uh, but yeah, this idea that, like, sats need to flow for Bitcoin

797
00:51:45,860 --> 00:51:52,125
to gain more adoption, like, Bitcoin in more people's hands, and, Spreads

798
00:51:52,125 --> 00:51:56,835
the likelihood of, of, of Bitcoin and actually being used as, as music exchange.

799
00:51:57,485 --> 00:52:03,295
Um, and in a world where, where, you know, say Bitcoin is legal tender everywhere.

800
00:52:04,105 --> 00:52:08,085
Well, wouldn't you want to, you know, you probably still wanna

801
00:52:08,090 --> 00:52:10,485
remain very conservative in terms of your spanning habit.

802
00:52:10,485 --> 00:52:12,955
It doesn't mean go dj, right?

803
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:16,875
So going DGen is like on the other extreme, and then huddling

804
00:52:16,875 --> 00:52:18,375
is complete other extreme.

805
00:52:19,025 --> 00:52:23,363
Uh, where you're just completely just holding, and I think landing the sats

806
00:52:23,363 --> 00:52:27,593
flow is somewhere, you know, somewhere in the middle where you're not just

807
00:52:28,313 --> 00:52:33,193
throwing money at JPEGs, you're, you're spreading Bitcoin through donations or

808
00:52:33,293 --> 00:52:37,923
through purchases, which helps to spread Bitcoin further, uh, into more hands.

809
00:52:38,711 --> 00:52:39,611
spend and replace.

810
00:52:40,406 --> 00:52:41,036
it's better replaced.

811
00:52:41,171 --> 00:52:43,821
That's a good, a good way to look at it.

812
00:52:43,981 --> 00:52:48,491
And yeah, as far as legal tender goes, like, we here on the freedom

813
00:52:48,491 --> 00:52:53,791
footprint show are against legal tender laws we think I Think I speak

814
00:52:53,791 --> 00:52:57,981
for Luke as well that we think that anyone should be able to Transact

815
00:52:58,031 --> 00:53:00,591
in whatever currency they want like.

816
00:53:01,731 --> 00:53:07,891
So I prefer the melee approach to the To the book a la approach there,

817
00:53:08,406 --> 00:53:10,246
yeah, yeah, totally, totally agree.

818
00:53:10,246 --> 00:53:15,016
I mean, Fiat was born, um, right, as a threat.

819
00:53:15,016 --> 00:53:16,346
Like, you have to use this, right?

820
00:53:16,836 --> 00:53:17,986
You have to use it by decree.

821
00:53:18,256 --> 00:53:20,446
It only works because it's forced upon us.

822
00:53:21,621 --> 00:53:25,281
So you don't need to force me to use Bitcoin, like, I'll use it.

823
00:53:26,971 --> 00:53:28,361
yeah and yeah.

824
00:53:28,621 --> 00:53:33,601
So I urge everyone listening to this to go and try to use Geyser, and the

825
00:53:33,611 --> 00:53:37,031
best way to do that is, of course, to Support the freedom footprint

826
00:53:37,031 --> 00:53:40,541
show, and we have the best like address in the world, don't we, luke?

827
00:53:43,219 --> 00:53:47,939
Free Freedom at Geyserfund.

828
00:53:47,949 --> 00:53:49,229
How awesome is that so?

829
00:53:49,249 --> 00:53:52,329
So don't forget to like, subscribe, brush your teeth.

830
00:53:53,759 --> 00:53:55,599
And here's me begging for money, I guess.

831
00:53:57,897 --> 00:54:22,405
Yeah,

832
00:54:23,089 --> 00:54:27,239
you like what you've been hearing, if you like what we've been doing, please

833
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:29,839
go to our Geyser page Geyserfundcom.

834
00:54:30,129 --> 00:54:35,029
Slash project, slash freedom, or our address is freedom at Geyserfund.

835
00:54:35,489 --> 00:54:40,849
And, yeah, send us some sats, or we're going to do more with the page, especially

836
00:54:40,849 --> 00:54:43,069
as new features come out with Geyser.

837
00:54:43,989 --> 00:54:47,869
We're in this for the long haul and we're going to take advantage of

838
00:54:47,959 --> 00:54:50,119
absolutely everything that's coming out.

839
00:54:50,119 --> 00:54:55,089
So, yeah, follow along and check out Geyser for everything that

840
00:54:55,089 --> 00:54:59,429
you're looking at like, see what other creators are on there.

841
00:54:59,429 --> 00:55:07,089
And if you have something that you want to do, yeah, make a Geyser page

842
00:55:07,089 --> 00:55:12,739
and start spreading the word on Noster on Twitter, all the places, right.

843
00:55:12,739 --> 00:55:14,059
So yeah, that's it.

844
00:55:14,059 --> 00:55:14,699
That's the pitch,

845
00:55:16,019 --> 00:55:21,389
Mick, you'll have to tell us whenever the new features come out so I

846
00:55:21,389 --> 00:55:22,979
can start dancing in my underwear.

847
00:55:23,529 --> 00:55:26,469
I will, I will, yeah, we'll make sure to do a partnership for that.

848
00:55:26,829 --> 00:55:28,719
And, uh, let you know beforehand.

849
00:55:30,099 --> 00:55:31,109
Yeah, that's interesting.

850
00:55:31,109 --> 00:55:34,659
But yeah, look, and also if there's any feedback, we're also super open to

851
00:55:34,659 --> 00:55:37,139
feedback and questions or suggestions.

852
00:55:37,209 --> 00:55:38,579
Also, feel free to reach out to me.

853
00:55:38,839 --> 00:55:44,859
And, uh, um, yeah, the basic belief is really that everyone's a creator, right?

854
00:55:44,949 --> 00:55:45,679
Everyone has.

855
00:55:46,359 --> 00:55:51,939
I can contribute to Bitcoin in some way, whether it's doing a podcast, uh, whether

856
00:55:51,939 --> 00:55:57,149
it's writing a book or, uh, or dancing in the street, waving a Bitcoin banner,

857
00:55:57,489 --> 00:56:01,299
people are going to be willing to send you some stats for your awesome, awesome work.

858
00:56:01,419 --> 00:56:06,389
So, uh, that's really, that's really the idea here that anyone can

859
00:56:06,419 --> 00:56:07,729
contribute, contribute to Bitcoin.

860
00:56:08,449 --> 00:56:12,049
Speaking of dancing naked in the street with the Bitcoin banner, did you see

861
00:56:12,049 --> 00:56:22,299
when Jonah Camoto showed his QR code bar tab to Twitter and people started

862
00:56:22,309 --> 00:56:24,509
ordering stuff for him at the restaurant

863
00:56:24,819 --> 00:56:25,549
No way.

864
00:56:25,929 --> 00:56:26,129
I

865
00:56:26,189 --> 00:56:28,149
That was fantastic.

866
00:56:28,179 --> 00:56:30,879
So he just got more and more food, him and his girlfriend.

867
00:56:30,879 --> 00:56:33,389
They couldn't eat it all because, like, yeah, it was great,

868
00:56:33,869 --> 00:56:35,549
Speaking of what can be done, right?

869
00:56:35,669 --> 00:56:36,809
Bitcoin and save.

870
00:56:37,069 --> 00:56:38,199
yeah, it's insane.

871
00:56:38,329 --> 00:56:43,649
Like I remember in the early days of social media, when people realized that

872
00:56:43,659 --> 00:56:47,819
they could like meme big gatherings into existence and, all of a sudden,

873
00:56:47,829 --> 00:56:51,779
like the authorities didn't know what to do because, all of a sudden, 200,000

874
00:56:51,819 --> 00:56:58,939
people are gathering for a large party in some park somewhere, and that

875
00:56:58,939 --> 00:57:00,379
was in the news every now and then.

876
00:57:00,669 --> 00:57:03,609
Then, I guess, facebook and the likes of it figured out

877
00:57:03,629 --> 00:57:06,279
ways to make that not happen.

878
00:57:06,689 --> 00:57:09,399
But now, with Nostrand and

879
00:57:11,114 --> 00:57:11,524
Yeah,

880
00:57:12,129 --> 00:57:14,089
Bitcoin, we can literally change the world.

881
00:57:14,434 --> 00:57:17,294
yeah, super powerful, super powerful tools.

882
00:57:20,309 --> 00:57:20,529
yeah.

883
00:57:20,529 --> 00:57:24,369
Any final thoughts before we move on?

884
00:57:24,369 --> 00:57:27,309
Mick, mick, is there anything we have left out here that

885
00:57:27,354 --> 00:57:30,344
Nah, it's been, it's been awesome to chat, guys.

886
00:57:30,524 --> 00:57:33,044
Uh, I have not much else to say.

887
00:57:33,044 --> 00:57:35,054
I mean, yeah, thanks again for the invite.

888
00:57:35,094 --> 00:57:36,704
Thanks for the, really love what you guys are doing.

889
00:57:36,704 --> 00:57:39,294
Keep doing the hard work, the good work.

890
00:57:39,294 --> 00:57:40,344
Keep inviting awesome guests.

891
00:57:40,344 --> 00:57:45,614
And, uh, um, yeah, looking forward to keep growing with you guys and

892
00:57:46,194 --> 00:57:47,004
spreading the word of Bitcoin.

893
00:57:47,739 --> 00:57:50,179
right, by Katya Mick, we love what you're doing too.

894
00:57:50,609 --> 00:57:54,239
So check out Geyserfund that's the address right,

895
00:57:54,894 --> 00:57:55,904
Yeah, that's it.

896
00:57:57,079 --> 00:57:57,699
Geysercom as well.

897
00:57:57,699 --> 00:57:58,109
Maybe

898
00:57:58,274 --> 00:58:00,714
Guys with, no, guys without fun only at the moment.

899
00:58:00,889 --> 00:58:02,219
give you Geyserfund, so yeah,

900
00:58:04,479 --> 00:58:05,189
soon, soon.

901
00:58:05,614 --> 00:58:07,934
and where can people find you?

902
00:58:08,999 --> 00:58:11,989
I'm metamick14 on Twitter, on Telegram.

903
00:58:13,309 --> 00:58:16,069
You can reach out to me, Mick, at guyswithoutfun, if you have any thoughts,

904
00:58:16,069 --> 00:58:18,779
questions, feedback, or suggestions.

905
00:58:19,639 --> 00:58:22,939
And yeah, super open to hearing back.

906
00:58:24,454 --> 00:58:28,244
Fantastic, looking forward to a long and prosperous relationship.

907
00:58:29,309 --> 00:58:29,639
Let's do it.

908
00:58:30,228 --> 00:58:31,288
All right, fantastic.

909
00:58:31,448 --> 00:58:34,618
Thanks a lot for joining us, mick, and this has been the Freedom Footprint Show.

910
00:58:35,008 --> 00:58:35,718
Thanks for listening.