Mattas, welcome to the Bitcoin Infinity Show.
Nice to have you here.
Knu, thank you for having me.
And uh, uh, greetings from Czech Republic to all your listeners.
Oh, fantastic.
The land of the fenestration, one of my favorite, uh, words in politics ever.
Yeah.
Uh, for those of you that don't know, Mattas is one of the two brothers
that are organizing the B2C Prague Conference, a conference, which I think
you should definitely go to this year.
mid to late June.
It's 18.
No, it's the 19th to the 21st of June.
And you can view use code Infinity for 10% off your ticket.
So let's get that out of the way.
Uh, first.
So, um, Matts maybe, uh, maybe before we get into the questions, uh, can
you give, uh, our listeners a little more of A-T-L-D-R on yourself?
Uh, we've had your brother on, but not you, so, so if you just introduce yourself
a bit, we'll, we'll get to know you a bit.
sure.
So my name is Mattias and I've been organizing Bitcoin events, uh,
with my brother Martin since 2020.
We started in C Republic in Little City Ova with event in Covid time.
When we hit it, we, we kind of.
acted like a honey badgers.
We don't care about covid.
And we, we did it and it took a great traction because even during lockdown,
we attracted 500 people the year after it was, uh, 1000 people the year after 2000.
And that lead us to the year 2023 when we decided to organize, um, um, the
international event, which is BTC Pro.
So now it's been, it's been five years since we will, we organize events for
people who likes to meet in the real space because it's, it's really important.
It, it, it, uh, absolutely speed up your process of understanding Bitcoin.
And neither me or Martin are, uh, tahi.
We, but we always like to, um, uh, meet people and organize, um, different
kind of occasions and parties.
So we, we figured this will be our contribution to network and.
Um, apparently like, yeah, it works.
People, people love it.
Uh, last year we welcomed, almost 8,000 people.
We had 200 plus speakers.
Uh, Michael Sailor is coming for a third time, so this is, this is a
good sign that we are doing something right and the expo is full of, full
of great Bitcoin only companies.
So, um, that was just a, a very short summary of what we are doing.
Other than that, I like music, uh, party and self sovereignty.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, fantastic.
I mean, B2C Prague, like I, I, I was on a space yesterday
and I, I told everyone that.
The, usually the smaller the conference is, if it's a Bitcoin only conference,
the higher the signal to noise ratio.
But GUE is the exception because it's a, it's a fantastic big
conference, but you manage to keep the signal to noise ratio really high.
Uh, there's not a lot of bitcoiners there.
It's, it's very high signal.
And, uh, yeah.
So, so con congrat, uh, uh, kudos to you for two great conferences so far.
They've both been fantastic.
Thank you.
You know, we are doing conferences for, for us we always think like what
the conference should be like that.
So we like it.
And me and Martin, we are hardcore bitcoiners.
Of course.
We've been through this whole alco uh, cycle, like it's a part of the evolution.
So we have a compassion for people, but we don't have a
compassion for those companies.
Now, and speaking of, of coins and the, the, the Bitcoin market and the bitcoin
market, like what, what's, what's your take on the recent market movements in
Bitcoin and like what, what do you think is going on and what's happening there?
Yeah.
Well, I think, uh, being a Bitcoin now is, is great.
Uh, the sentiment is, what's the right word?
It's electric.
It's not just a bull market.
It's uh, it's really a mental shift.
And people who laughed at us five years ago, they are now coming
with questions, serious questions.
The institutions are jumping in, um, uh, trying to write this wave.
Politicians are, uh, scratching their hats and scrambling up.
so here's the thing, like five years ago, it wasn't sure
that Bitcoin is real to stay.
It was sure for us, but now it's really becoming so real that.
no one is like against it anymore, or maybe this is just my bubble feeling,
but I think that we are crossing the chasm from, ly ly adopters or maybe
even late adopters to ly majority.
And this, comes with a great opportunity for everyone.
So if you become Bitcoin, uh, before everyone else, it's
very, very good thing to do.
And I would say that those who, uh, adopt this technology will
gran benefit greatly from it.
And, I think that this is the last time when we really can jump in before
the majority, so the time is sticking.
And, I think that the real FOMO will happen in, in this
year or maybe the year after.
And that's why I'm here, like talk about BTC product because for those
who are curious and who want to jump in, um, maybe they, they are
seasoned bitcoiners, but they also, uh, might be a newcomers because
until now it was kind of a no-no from.
From different reasons, but now it's pretty obvious that
Bitcoin is here to stay.
And, at BTC Prague or pretty much every other event, you get this
conviction that is a real thing.
You see so many people with similar values, with, uh, very smart arguments,
which are against this fiat, uh, experiment, which is clearly ending
because everyone see the inflation.
Everyone has this feeling that the system is erect.
I. And that you need to do something about this.
Like even, even like really everyone like Joe and Joe and Jim from the
street, everyone knows that something is rigged and you need to defend yourself.
And Bitcoin is here to, to help you to overcome this heart period.
And if you come to the conference, it's, uh, it's pretty, it's pretty easy
to get the education, the networking.
You need to be sure that you start and you benefit greatly very, very quickly.
You don't get this feeling from internet because the internet is full of chaos.
It's very difficult to find the signal in the sea of the, of the noise.
So I really think that becoming a bitcoin now matters.
And, uh, the moment of the transformation, when the crowd
is still a little bit uncertain.
Is important because when the crowd is, sure, and you will see everything
in, in the mainstream every week, uh, you will see the news in, in
mainstream, but that's maybe not the, the not the time to, to jump in.
No, uh, I, uh, agree with all of that and I, I just like to pick your brain.
Do you believe, like, when the majority comes into the market, do, do you believe
that there's, there will be a last cycle, like a, a, a one cycle to end them all?
Uh, where, where we just go into hyper ization,
mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Well, I think that, uh, and I'm not sure it is very difficult question.
Yeah.
Um.
I think no one knows the answer, but Bitcoin is technology and
it will be probably, uh, copying somehow the bell curve, which is the
adoption curve of every technology.
So it might be very similar to internet or smartphones.
So probably we will see a huge hockey stick and then it
will start to slow down again.
So it's a scur.
And, uh, how long will will the, the, the parabolic move, uh, be?
Uh, I don't know.
It might be, it might be even like few decades, I would say.
Yeah.
Um, or maybe not because we don't have that many people in the world.
I, I, I have no idea.
It can be fast.
It can be really fast.
I. By adoption of people, but we have so much money in the
world and that will take time.
the Bitcoin is like a black hole, which is sucking the energy, uh, the
monetary energy from every other asset.
And, I think that that will take a long time.
It can take decades from, for people to really understand that it's not
good to diversify to real estate.
Yeah, it's better to buy Bitcoin.
This can take time.
But if we are talking about adoption, that people will start to using, uh, using
it on day-to-day move and that, uh, uh, the fiat, um, experiment will disappear.
That can, that can take, uh, a little bit, uh, a little bit less time.
I, I totally agree.
I mean, the, um, the Scur is applicable to the people adopting Bitcoin.
But, uh, maybe it's not applicable to all the money because there's always
more money and more productivity.
And as the mar, as the economy grows, there's always more money so that that
doesn't have to level out somewhere.
It could just theoretically just keep on going.
Like nothing stops this train, as Aslin likes to say.
Um, so, and, and another thing about, um, adoption, like the best way to, to
actually get to experience how superior Bitcoin a is, is to go to a, a conference,
preferably a big one because you have so many people that you can actually
use it with and see how, how smooth and, and uh, how how great using Bitcoin
is, how great an experience it is.
And it's, it's so frictionless and, uh, don't ask for permission, just do it.
Uh, the more of us that do the, the, the more uns, the, the quicker the
unstoppability of this will unfold.
Yeah, sure.
Like I, I have so many examples in C Republic you can pay
with Bitcoin for everything.
Like I was just in a restaurant with my friends few days ago and I showed
them how I pay with Bitcoin and I paid, paid the bill, uh, with Bitcoin in
random restaurant in my little city.
We have more than a thousand places all over Czech Republic.
Uh, our biggest, uh, online retailer, ALZA is like Czech.
Amazon is accepting Bitcoin and lighting, uh, since 2014, I think.
So you can buy pretty much any electronics or, uh, household attempt,
uh, toys, pretty much everything what you imagine for Bitcoin.
So it's already here.
It's just that the knowledge of.
this technology is not, uh, evenly distributed.
We are already living in the future, and if you are aware of this,
you want to be aligned with this future where you need good money.
And that means becoming a bitcoin.
That means using Bitcoin for your own good.
And it can be, uh, it can defer someone, use it only for saving money, someone
using for payments, someone using for, uh, buying their household items.
But someone is using it for international transfers, which
is also, uh, uh, super cool.
Yeah, not waiting three days, uh, for confirmation.
Uh, this money's, uh, censorship resistant.
There are so many perks, which are just a hundred times better than the
previous technology, previous money.
Absolutely.
And, and there's no coincidence that Prague and the Czech Republic are, are
ahead of the curve here because you, in your country, you have a long tradition
of resistance to, to authority, uh, whether it be your home government or, or
the Soviet Union trying to run you over.
Uh, but, uh, and all, all sorts of things.
So tell us a bit about that.
Why, why Prague and the Czech Republic stands out, uh, uh, from the crowd here
okay.
There are like, checks have been I think always very geeky nation.
Uh.
We are, we are well known as, uh, as researchers, as smart people
who are finding new solutions.
Because we have, we, we are a small nation.
We don't feel particularly strong about ourself.
We've, we've been always ruled by someone.
Um, and this made us a kind of humble nation.
And people knew that they need to work for their own to have something extra.
Um, and this especially, uh, and especially talking about the last
attack when we were under the communism regime where there,
there was nothing on the market.
And if you wanted to have a, a, for example, nice piece of furniture or, or,
or something, something nice for your household, you had to make it by yourself.
So People have this craftman culture.
And, when Bitcoin came into tuition, uh, in 2008, 2009, um, few smart
people already started to geeking, geeking about it in Prague, um, in,
in the, uh, hackerspace Burm lab.
And those were the people who were lying down the foundation for Bitcoin ecosystem.
So, uh, in this hackerspace, the first ever, mining pool, happened to, to be,
to be founded slash pool working until now with, uh, more than 1 million Bitcoin
being mined now operated by brains.
Another great check based, uh, bitcoin company.
it that, that was in a year, 2010, if I'm not mistaken.
then 2012, the first ever hardware wallet was, uh, made in Czech Republic in Prague
by stick and slash sat lips with BIP 39.
The seed phrase, it was also discovered in, in Czech, or 2013, the general bytes,
uh, the biggest Bitcoin ATM manufacturer by Kara Kowski also made in Prague.
And, uh, we, we've always had very close to libertarian and
anarchical capitalistic thinking.
So there was this black three floor building par in 2014 where all
those cipher punks and, uh, and geeks and hackers were coming and,
and, and talking about Bitcoin and this, because we started very early.
The Czech Bitcoin community started very soon.
We had the time to, understand, to learn about it.
You know, that it takes time to understand Bitcoin.
you can speed it up only, only, only a bit.
And because we had time, it snowballed until now where we
have like a huge Bitcoin community with 10 million inhabitants.
Czech Republic has, more than 1 million Bitcoin enthusiasts.
Those are just numbers from some, some research and many, uh, bitcoin
companies are, um, based in Prague because, uh, the culture here is just,
just really cool and, and really great.
And even the government recognized this.
And recently, uh, our president, uh, signed a law where, uh, you don't need
to pay, um, the capital gain taxes after holding your Bitcoin for three years.
So the, we have a time test for Bitcoin.
And the second part of this law was that, uh, the companies have a right
for, uh, corporate bank account because those companies had had, uh, a lot of
problems 'cause the, the, the foreign, uh, banks were closing their accounts
and, and trying to, uh, screw them with, with this this sneaky, sneaky attack.
So now, um.
It seems that the government recognized the, the opportunity and want to establish
Czech Republic as somehow Bitcoin Capital of Europe with Chick Crown having, um,
uh, as our, as our currency, not Euro.
This is something what gives me, gives me a real hope for, for the future,
even though I'm coming a little bit from the more, um, grassroots movement.
So I don't praise politics and, and governments and central bankers, but
even me, uh, I, I, I feel, I feel kind of proud, uh, about, about this, uh, and, um.
I'm, I'm only, uh, only waiting when I will see, uh, more and more news from, uh,
from, from Czech, uh, coming to the world.
Like recently, it was a Mikko, the Czech, uh, Czech National Bank Governor
when he stated out that, uh, Czech National Bank is considering, uh,
Bitcoin as a part of the reserve.
And of course, they were, uh, the, the next day they were slapped on
their fingers by Christine Leg.
Uh, but, but I think it doesn't, doesn't matter.
And, uh, the game terror is already, already in play and it just about
the time when the whole world will see it, and as it is worked for
individuals, if you are first.
You have, uh, better opportunity and, and better leverage it.
It works.
Same for, for countries and, um, and, and Czech Republic, uh, definitely can be one
of those countries in Europe similar to El Salvador in, in, uh, in Latin America.
Yeah, it's, it's super, uh.
Super bullish news, all of it.
Uh, uh, definitely.
And speaking of Christine Laggard, I saw a tweet the other day where, uh,
from the European Central Bank of, of how to spot a counterfeit Euro bill.
And I think it's so ironic because all of them are counterfeit, in my opinion.
And the, the only re, the only way to know that no one is printing more
of the monetary unit you're using is to actually know every single
transaction that goes on in that system.
And there's only one way to do that, and that is to run a Bitcoin
node and check for yourself.
That's the only, that's the only way you can know that, that
no counterfeiting can happen.
So, uh, so yeah, run a node.
That's how you, that's how you know all the other currencies can
and will be counterfeited either by central banks, by normal banks,
or by some other evil entity.
Uh, that's, that's just what happens.
The incentive is too strong.
Yeah.
I don't want to even start talking about European Union and those Brussels
elites, or they call themselves elites, but they, they, they have no idea.
They're, they're out already from this game.
Just,
No, the there elites only in the sense of like that they are
the most successful parasites.
I.
So, uh, you mentioned parallel police there shortly, like
what's happening there?
I heard a rumor that it is closed down or something.
Is is that true?
Uh, it's closed down in the sense that it, it's, it changed
names, it changed somehow.
Ownership.
Um, I think the culture, what was there, um, has kind of died and changed.
Um, and, uh, honestly, I, I haven't been there for, for some time,
so, uh, I, I, I, I don't know.
No, because I, I know this.
PA Police was never a Bitcoin only place.
Right?
There was a, a lot of ery going on there.
Even though this, it was born before the distinction was even possible to, to make
for most people it because it it's been there since, yeah, since, uh, since when?
Like 2010, 2011,
Uh, I think a little bit later, like 2014, I would, I would guess,
Yeah.
But still before the whole, before the Bitcoin standard and the whole,
uh, introduction of bi Bitcoin versus Bitcoin narrative, uh, that
simply wasn't there in the beginning.
So, so these are, these are the, the true original cipher punks that have just
been fighting for, uh, your freedom to do whatever the fuck you want, basically,
You know, I really like, I really like Par Police.
It's, it's very respectable, um, place from the sense that in, in Czech we
had this law that every single, um, business which is serving people needs
to have this, uh, electronic cashier.
And they were the only one who refused that because they were not accepting cash.
And they, they went away with it.
They were really, I think they were the only, um, only ca cafe in the
whole Chi Republic who didn't have this, this electronic cash system,
which was mandatory by Czech law.
It's, uh, they, they, they showed the middle finger and they won.
Um, and, and regarding the, the Bitcoin area there, um, they were
really focused on Bitcoin a lot.
I would say 90, 95%.
But because I think because of the, uh, of the, they were kind of blockchain
agnostic, let's say, very politely.
So there were some, some, uh, Ethereum people and, and, and even, uh, Monero.
But I, I think that they were kind of selective even from
the, from the shitcoin part.
They selected only the best of those shit coins.
The least worst anyway, so, so yeah.
Yeah.
I, I can, I can very much recommend you visit the place
because it's such a cool place.
And also right across the street, there's one, uh, there's a great,
uh, restaurant, uh, uh, with a lot of good meat, like, uh, Texan barbecue
sort of joint that I can't remember the name of, but that's great too.
Hello there.
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The steak knives is only a, maybe I'll write them.
So, uh, yeah, where are we, where, where do we want to take this conversation?
Uh, anything more about Prague in the Czech Republic that people ought to
know, like, uh, anything else you want to talk about in that, in that area?
Uh, well, uh, I never, uh, let the opportunity to shell
BTC Prague on the table.
So I think that this year is, um, and I. I've been thinking about about the,
the next phase of, uh, Bitcoin adoption a lot because with BTC Prague, we
always, uh, try to adapt to the market.
And, uh, with, with every bull market, we get a huge wave of newcomers.
And this brings a question, who are the newcomers?
This bull market?
And those newcomers are different than in last bull market because
of the legitimization of Bitcoin.
Because bitcoin is getting, um, attraction from politicians and
institutions, we can see them in, in news with, in, in a positive way.
I think that the next wave of people are kind of.
Normie middle class, Jim and Joe May be wearing suit, and they will be, of
course, coming for the, uh, for, for, for the money part of, of the equation
of the movement because they, they feel threatened by, by inflation and they will
be looking for something to save their money, but also they feel like this might
be a similar opportunity as internet was in early nineties, if you, they, they
don't want to became, uh, blockbusters of this Bitcoin time or Codex or Nokia.
So I think that there are many people who, uh, who feel, hmm, ambition.
And they want to use this, uh, this opportunity of Bitcoin for
their own good to, uh, to have a better salary in their company.
So they want to became this go-to guy, this bitcoin guy
in their, in their company.
And maybe they even were studying Bitcoin for a few years.
So they are not absolute newbies, but it was not very, um, easy to come
up to their boss and say, Hey, boss, let's do something with Bitcoin.
Because until now the boss would just kick them out.
Don't, don't talk, uh, bullshit with me.
Yeah.
Uh, bitcoin is, is, uh, money for, uh, for criminals or something like that,
or is boiling oceans or pick your fat.
But now I think that this is the time when, if you are a Bitcoin in a company.
You can go to your boss, you can say, Hey boss, I see there is opportunity to
use Bitcoin for this and this purpose.
Because if you are a good employee in your fiat job, you see this small
opportunities lying on the table and pick your, pick your, pick your favorite.
Yeah.
Um, and uh, your boss can tell you, okay, yeah, that's a,
that's actually a good idea.
Let's spend some time on it.
Let's, let's, let's research.
And, and you can, you can go to BTC Prague and, and really learn about those use
cases because we are not the first one who, who are, who is thinking about this.
The wheel is already being, uh, developed and you can just pick, uh, a guide,
uh, playbook which fits to your needs and apply it for your own company, for,
uh, your own, um, uh, like ambition.
And if you do it right, you can just like, um, raise your hourly rate in your company
to double, triple, or pretty much every, any, any, uh, what you, what you imagine
as it was in early days of the internet, if you knew how to operate with internet,
if you knew how to do webpages, um, you just had a huge, uh, huge, uh, leverage.
Against, um, against your, uh, against the, the, the whole other job market.
So I think this is, this is the, this is the real opportunity to really, to
really start thinking about Bitcoin as a part of your, of your job and applying
it to other aspects of your life.
I really think that Bitcoin is a level of technology and it gives you the
opportunity to, to grow in a matter that it wasn't possible until now.
It opens up absolutely new doors, which are very easy to open and, and it's,
it's, um, it's with almost no risk.
One thing is that you, you very rarely hear, hear the phrase,
uh, yeah, I don't like Bitcoin.
But, uh, I find the underlying blockchain technology very interesting.
You don't hear that anymore, right?
Because people know that, that phrase, it just reveals your ignorance.
It tells other people how stupid you are when it comes to this stuff.
So the only people using that, that particular, uh, phrase is, is
politicians and, and central bankers and such, like the, the distinction
between Bitcoin and everything else is just becoming so, so clear.
Yeah.
So I have a question for you, Knut.
What do you think it will be?
Uh, the, the scam of this bull market?
You know, last bull market, it was, it was, uh, um, orals and, and before
that it was like altcoins different different colors of all the I altcoins.
Before that it was a ICOs.
So what do you think will be this market?
Because I'm sure it will be something.
Yeah, I mean the meme coins are sort, sort of already dead, I think like Trump
coined and that's, uh, crap was like peak.
Uh, well, how, if the President of the United States makes, makes
one and that does the same fucking rug pool as everything else,
like where do you go from there?
I think meme coins are over.
Uh, I do however, think that this, uh.
Bitcoins on Bitcoin thing, uh, I worry that that might have a, a
resurrect itself because that's very, it's a very damaging thing.
It, it does, uh, clog up the UTXL set and make, make Bitcoin transactions
more expensive for everyone and make, uh, starting your own node,
uh, more expensive for everyone.
So, so I, I hope that that's over and there are some positive, uh, signals.
Like for instance, when the so-called taproot wizards raised $30 million at the
same time, blockstream races a billion.
So like, we're, we're sort of winning that war too.
Uh, and, uh, I, I like that.
Um, but yeah.
There might be the next, uh, uh, I, I mean, I view all of the coins and all of
the scams that, uh, follow in the wake of Bitcoin as some type of attack vector.
Uh, they are the attack.
Uh, um, and the next one might be political that, uh, if, if we let pol
politicians, uh, decide what a node is, for instance, or, or let them, if a
politician says it will be legal to run a Bitcoin node in our country, and then
they, they get to define what a Bitcoin node is, and that's very dangerous.
Like this needs to be.
Run by people who don't give a shit what politicians say.
That's like, uh, if we start obeying and, uh, following rules,
we're not bitcoiners anymore.
Like we, we need it.
It needs, it's, uh, an arco capitalistic ethics to, to actually
work because otherwise it becomes centralized and then it's fucked.
It's just another shit coin.
I, I don't believe that would happen.
I'm insanely, uh, bullish on Bitcoin and, and, uh, convinced about, about
its robustness, especially after how spectacularly, gloriously the, uh,
block size wars were won back in 2017.
We were like unstoppable.
Uh, but yeah, there will probably, there will be more scams.
However, they, they are way more insignificant than they were back in 2017.
Like right now, the entire altcoin market is, is just how
much Bitcoin moves in a day.
That's the equivalent.
Like, so Bitcoin is.
Enormous.
It's, it is like an ant fighting a mammoth.
Like it's, it's, it's nothing.
They make a lot of noise because what, what's the expression?
E empty cans, uh, make more noise.
Uh, and this is what the, the shit point market is.
So they insanely, uh, optimistic about Bitcoin.
I, I think the scams will, there will be another wave of scams.
Hard to tell what it is.
Uh, but hopefully people are smart enough to not fall for it, uh, anymore.
Like, or less people, at least.
There's always another idiot to fool.
But, but yeah, fewer and fewer every time.
Yeah.
Well, even smart people were falling for scams past two, uh, bull markets.
Right.
It's not, uh, it's not, um, I, I feel, I feel like it, it is a part of the learning
process to fall for some scam and, and pay for it because it, it gives you a very
hard lesson, which is almost transferable.
Yeah.
Someone can, can teach you about this, but if you don't, um, if you don't feel
the pain, uh, you, you don't think in a way that you, you, you learn the lesson.
No.
And, uh, in order to fool a smart person or a, uh, an above average intelligence
person, you need to sound so smart that they feel that they're not really
following you, which, which is sort of what Ethereum did for a long time.
Uh, the, the word salad matched the code salad, so to speak.
So, so no one really understood it.
They just pretended that they understood it and that's how they got robbed.
And they, some people are.
Still getting wronged by that obvious, in hindsight, obvious scam, like
a 70% pre mine should have, like, everyone should have seen that.
But, but it was so, well, uh, the, the marketing machine and this, all
these narratives of world computer and all the bullshit, like the, uh,
it, it captured a lot of people.
And same thing with Monero.
So like, oh, it's, this is actually anonymous.
Yeah, but that means you can't audit the supply.
So, so it, it doesn't work.
But, but people, people will for, for one scam or another.
And I think most of that stems from all this misinformation because people don't
understand what problem Bitcoin solves.
And in order to understand a solution, you need to first understand the problem,
and the problem is money printing.
The problem is that you can copy, copy stuff.
Like this is the first thing that can't be copied, that it's as simple as that.
But people have such a hard time wrapping their heads around that.
Yeah, you're right.
You're right.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
The money printing is, is the problem.
Bitcoin is solving it for the first time in a history.
It's, it's so brilliant and.
It's so simple to, to grasp it.
Once you get it, it's, it's almost like, uh, like, uh, like the cryptography,
like the public private key cryptography.
Yeah.
Once you have the key, it's so simple to verify.
But on the other, other side, it's, it's almost impossible
to, uh, to solve the problem.
And I think it's, it's very similar with understanding Bitcoin.
Once you get it, once it, it clicks, it's so obvious and you are just
telling yourself, Hey, how could I be so stupid to not get it sooner?
That's a super good analogy.
Like, uh, it's, uh, uh, yeah, it's great.
But Bitcoin knowledge is like a private key.
Like once you get it, it's, it, it, it doesn't go away.
Uh.
it unlocks, it unlocks a different part of.
Of knowledge as well.
Like, at least I, I kind of feel like Bitcoin really gave me the
power to understand, uh, even things outside of Bitcoin because it just
broadened your, um, your perspective.
And because it, it, it gives you a chance, um, of thinking
about things, uh, differently.
You kind of feel like you, um, you see through the things
which you couldn't see before.
Yeah.
Like another scams and, and the radicalness of the, of, of the
whole, uh, bureaucracy and, and, and the, the list is very, very long.
But before Bitcoin, it wasn't so obvious, right?
That how the word is so rigged.
No.
And, uh, Bitcoin, uh, led me down the Aus Economics Rabbit Hole, which I think
is like just as, as big of a revealing thing be because it feels like when,
when you're, when you're looking at the world through a Bitcoin lens, when
you know that all prices should go down over time, and the only reason that they
don't is because people is printing money that you see all the other problems of
where they come from and how political interventionism is always the problem.
And it, it's, it's like having truth goggles.
You know, that, uh, old young Carpenter movie, uh, they live where you watches
the world normally and then through the glasses and it's completely
different, and he can just see the truth in everything and that that's.
That's the type of glasses that Bitcoin provides you with.
Hello there, fellow Coiner.
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A group of lovely fellows from down under that can help you store your Bitcoin for
a long time using Multisig solutions.
So check out pit box stamp seed and the Bitcoin advisor or GFY back to the show.
so, uh, yes.
And I, I know you like the philosophical side of Bitcoin as much as I do
and, and know that this is, uh, uh, it's much more than, uh, you
know, number go up technology.
It's, it's, everything else go up too.
Like, in, in your life, uh, you, you learn to become more responsible.
And, uh, with, with great freedoms comes great responsibility as, uh, Spider-Man's
uncle once said, uh, in Bitcoin, we have Uncle Rockstar to tell us those things.
But, uh, uh, yeah.
What, what, what are your, what are your thoughts on, on, uh, how
Bitcoin changes people and more, more than just providing truth goggles?
Yeah.
Um, you know, I think that we are coming to, to a age where people need to
take responsibility to their own hands because, uh, without money printer,
the socialism will be not possible.
Uh, and people will have very hard time without being very productive
and taking care about yourself, about, uh, your own, own future.
So I think that we are shifting to the time when the responsibility of, uh, of,
of one needs to really, uh, be the on the forefront of everyone's thinking.
And Bitcoin teaches you that.
Um, also Bitcoin, uh, kind of rediscover values, which were kind
of lost in, in last two generations.
So, um, I like the philosophy, uh, about Bitcoin and I'm just, I
dunno where to start because the topic is so, uh, so interesting.
But, like, it, it's been, it's been kind of, um, decimating in my mind
for, for several years and I think I really, I really get it and, um, I
developed my own kind of, uh, philosophy around this, and I call it level up.
I, I, I came with this, uh, last year for BTC Prague because I wanted to
encourage people to be better because I
It was the theme of the conference,
Yes, it was a theme of the conference to level up because I think that
you should never stop learning.
I think that being a mediocre is the worst thing, what you can do if you just stop,
if you start feeling, uh, convenient.
Uh, I think this is the, this is the start of, uh, of like decade.
And with this, I, I was thinking that I, I want to really encourage people to,
because I was, I was looking at myself, uh, when I was, uh, really new in Bitcoin.
I was listening like seven hours of podcasts per day on speed,
1.1 0.6, and I was reading, uh, two, three books per month.
I was just swallowing it extremely.
And then I found myself in a position when I, I felt confident
then I know quite a, quite a lot.
It was nothing.
But I felt, I felt like I, I know something about Bitcoin.
I went through this, uh, sheet coin interface and, uh, I start stacking.
I, I did all the things what are, like, recommended for being a Bitcoin,
and I recognized that I kind of stuck in the, uh, and I stopped learning.
Yeah.
So I kind of pushed myself to run the notes and, uh, try multisignature
and do this more advanced stuff.
And then I felt great again.
So I wanted to, uh, encourage people, our attendees at BTC Prac to do the same.
Never stop really, uh, like put it in your calendar and do some,
uh, interesting and advance.
Think around Bitcoin every week, just grow, grow, grow, never stop.
And uh, and this was just the beginning of the idea, but then I, I kind of
connected it with the Malow pyramid of needs, which, uh, which, uh,
says that you have different levels.
The first is, uh, is basic needs, uh, like, uh, like having
a full stomach and being warm.
The second one, I think is a friendship and, and, uh, and, and love.
The third one is, uh, self fulfillment.
Something what you, what you do.
Um, and, and you feel very good.
And, and, uh, and I think the fourth level, or, or maybe is the,
the last one is enlightenment.
And I think that Bitcoin gives you opportunity to very quickly
skip the first two levels.
Uh, because, because, um, it wasn't very easy before with, with fiat
because you, you just had to spend a lot of time working, working, working.
And most of the people don't like their daily job, so they never get to the
third level, which is self-fulfillment.
But with Bitcoin you can actually, uh, do whatever is needed and you
get the self-fulfillment in Bitcoin.
So you are, you are getting the third level, which was
very difficult to get before.
And that's why I call it level Up technology because it really, it really
gets you to the point where you wouldn't, uh, be able to get, uh, without it because
it's just the technology is so powerful that it, uh, it lifts you up, it elevates
you to different levels, and you can't really imagine where it will get you
in few years and it teach you lessons, which would you never, uh, even imagine
you would, you would learn on the way.
Yeah, absolutely.
And, uh, I remember that this was in your talk in Buenos Aires.
We, we spent some time together in Buenos Aires and got to know each other a little
better and had some great stake in stuff.
Uh, so, so that was great.
It resonated very well with me.
Like, uh, I really liked this, uh, Maslows, uh, uh, hierarchy of needs
and, and level up thought and what you said in the beginning that like, uh,
you, it, it ties together with like the, the thing I view as the, like the
only threat to Bitcoin is complacency.
Like people.
Not caring anymore.
That's, that's, uh, how we can't resist the next attack.
Like, we need to stay vigilant, stay updated, and stay hungry
for this thing to work.
So that's, that's the funny thing about it, is like, it's the most
robust thing ever, but it's robustness is totally depend, dependent
on us being robust as people.
Uh, so, so it's robust and fragile at the same time, but I, I would
still say it's super robust.
Uh.
Uh, some people say that Bitcoin, uh, should, ossify, should or should
not ossify, but I, I, I find that funny because there, there would
be no way to tell if it had, like, you can never know if Bitcoin is
going to change in the future.
Like the, you can tell that the likelihood that it will, will go down over time
as more and more people come on board.
But there's no way to actually objectively say that now it has, uh, ossified and
at some point we might find a critical bug or something that needs to be
done that requires us to take action and change the software in our nodes.
And, uh, if we don't do that, we might be, uh, that might be dangerous.
So, so that's why I say that complacency is the only, uh, enemy that Bitcoin has.
Uh, we need to stay vigilant and do, do our part.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, uh, you know, it's, it's, uh, way over my pay grade to see, uh.
If there are some, some bugs in the code.
So I'm, I'm very happy that we have, uh, an army of developers, uh, and smart, uh,
huge brains who are watching Bitcoin every day because in it's an open source system.
It's, it is without, without this open source, uh, technology, it
wouldn't be, it wouldn't be possible.
And that's, that's just another, another, uh, beautifully done
design from sat nakamoto.
It's, it's almost like, it, it, it came from, from another planet that
it wouldn't, it, it, it's, it's so beautifully done and designed and
everything is thinking through, but still it's under the development.
Um, yeah.
It, it, it just, it just boils my brain.
And I, I, I love to think about it, uh, every day.
Yeah, same here.
As you know, and, and, uh, I think what we're doing is like, we're,
we're, we're just being part of the division of labor here.
There are plenty of technical, uh, introverted people that want
to sit there and, and, uh, uh.
Verify everything for themselves and be vigilant in that sense.
But I think my time is better spent, uh, you know, conviction deepening Bitcoiners.
Uh, some other guy might be better at orange Peel than I am, but I think
I'm pretty good at, at writing stuff that deepens people's conviction.
Your time is probably better spent, spent organizing the conference and
making the, making sure that people connect with one another to make
these, uh, great connections and business, uh, relationships happen.
Which is like what, what a conference is really for.
It it, it, it's like, uh, it like, Helps, helps the whole ecosystem, uh, grow,
um, and more connections to be found, uh, that, that cannot be found online,
but we need to do them in real life.
So, so I view it as, when I say I'm doing my part, I don't necessarily
mean like checking, verifying everything on this in the chain.
I'm, I'm finding my position in the ecosystem, and I mean, if you have Bitcoin
and if you use them, if you accept Bitcoin for your goods and services, regardless
of what those goods and services are, you're already doing your part.
That's, that's the way I view it.
Uh, that's the most crucial thing except Bitcoin because no
one can do anything about that.
Yep, yep.
I agree with you.
Everyone can do his own part.
Just think what you are good and apply a Bitcoin on it.
uh, let's go into B2C prog a bit more.
Can you tell me a bit more about, uh, B2C prog this year?
Do you have, uh, uh, like, uh, level up was, uh, last year's catchphrase?
Is there catchphrase for this year?
And, uh, what can you tell me about the content?
How does this year's, uh, B2C product differ from previous years?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Um, so this year is about legitimization.
It's, we think that.
Really, it's about, uh, discovering what is new in Bitcoin and how to leverage
this for upcoming, upcoming years.
How to position yourself in, in upcoming bull market.
And pretty much how to use the technology to empower yourself as an individual,
but also as a sovereign family.
'cause I really, uh, I like the, I like the, um, the, the motto likes, I love
the book Sovereign individual, but I think that the, the smallest part is
not individual, but it's a family.
The, the smallest unit should be a family, and I really think that this
resonates very well with Bitcoiners.
And that's, that's why we, we, we kind of will explore this more cultural,
uh, things also during BTC Prague.
And just to maybe summarize it, summarize the umbrella, uh, umbrella term and, and
to give you more idea, what does it mean?
It, it pretty much means that we are lowering the bar.
Uh, it's not gonna be so hardcore like last year, especially the business
day of the conference, because we are expecting many newcomers.
From the traditional world who are coming for the money part of the
movement, and we want to give them the things what they, they come for.
If you are a seasonal Bitcoin, you will still get some nuggets.
Gold, gold and, and diamonds, which will be thrown, uh, away by every
speaker because, um, when I talk to speakers, I encourage them to come
up with some actionability and some, um, some, uh, maybe a prediction,
how to position for upcoming years.
Uh, it's the every talk supposed to be interesting, but also actionable so
you can really take it Hmm, and start using the very, uh, very same day.
Other than that, the, the, the conference will be held at the same place.
It's a huge area.
It, it can take up to 10,000 people.
So we think that this, this year we will be absolutely full and, and, and sold out.
There will be 200, uh, plus speakers from, uh, Michael Sailor
is coming for a third time in a row.
We will have, uh, sedine, ammos, um, uh, Larry Leopard,
um, uh, Alex Ky Nu with Luke.
Um, uh, uh, or from, from the new names, uh, James Lavish.
Um, uh, let me open, let me open the webpage here.
You can, you can look at it.
Uh, Eric.
Similar, um, the, the, from the similar scientific, uh, the few other big guys
from, uh, from the corporate world, E Eve.
Um.
Samsung, Mao, uh, Charles ghi, uh, from from Ledger, Peter to Stefan,
Vera, Marty Mame, John Carvalho, all the big names which are important,
uh, in a Bitcoin ecosystem.
And I think the very interesting news for the program, for the main
stage is that we are coming with new format, which is Oxford style debates.
We haven't been doing this, but this is something very fresh and I'm
personally very much looking forward to see two people on one side, uh,
fighting, arguing with two, two people on the second side with one moderator.
And they both have a very certain and precise time to lay down the arguments
and the second side need to defend it.
And I've seen that, uh, life and it's, it's great.
It's, it's very entertaining.
But at the same time, because it's fair, it's, it's also educational.
It's like the, uh, it's, it is like the panel discussion for adults.
So we will have those, um, those discussions, those, those debates during
BTC brac, but only on the main stage.
So it's worth to spending some sets, um, to, to be there with, with others, to feel
the energy, to be very close, um, to the speakers and to use the opportunity to
meet them in the, in the main conference hall to, uh, to greet them after the
talk and ask them additional questions.
Because that's how, how, how you get most of it right after the
call, right after the talk, go and meet them and ask them something.
And most of the speakers are very happy to, to talk and to expand, uh, the,
just the, the short period of time, what they have on the main stage.
It sounds fantastic, and I love those Oxford style debates.
One of my favorites, like from a decade back is Stephen Fry and the
Christopher Hitchens debating to religious people if, if the Catholic
church is a, is a force for good or not.
I. Uh, that was a great debate.
Uh, so, so looking forward to that A lot.
You mentioned Safe, Idina Mo and Larry Lahar.
I mean, we will have a book corner, uh, which Luke and I are running a
booth there, and I, I believe Safe Iin is running the other booth.
And there's like, uh, uh, a little book signing, uh, corner where we, we'll
both have sessions, signing books.
Larry Lepard Will will have his book, uh, uh, in our booth and plenty of other
authors too, uh, including a handful of check authors, uh, local authors, and, uh.
Other, other people too.
So, uh, so looking forward to that a lot.
Uh, there's a lot going on.
Uh, we will also, you mentioned Marty Maldi and Sam Mo, which are, I know,
uh, from, um, I heard through the grapevine that they are musicians and
that, uh, which I happen to be too, and that we might do something together.
So we'll, we'll see what that ends up being.
But, uh, as always, I look forward to Prague a lot.
Uh, it's, it's just a great conference and a great city and, uh, this year I'm
bringing my family, so like, I'm looking forward to, to, to showing them, uh, the
city and the conference and everything.
Uh, it's gonna be great.
Yeah.
Thank you for your current words.
Uh, yeah, I think I can, uh, I can uh, really agree with you
that Prague is beautiful city.
It's very historical, and for those who didn't see it, it's a great
opportunity to come and extend the state for few more days and
just, just go around the old city.
It's medieval, it's beautiful, it's full of proof of work.
It's, it's absolutely astonishing.
And it's also, Prague is still quite cost effective if you compare with
other big, uh, capitals in Europe.
Yes.
Uh, and I, I mean, it's also serves as a perfect, uh, um, visualizer of like what
the world was like on the gold standard and what it's like on a fiat standard,
because sometimes there's this beautiful 400 year old building right next to a,
a fiat skyscraper that's just but ugly, and you can just see the problem there.
Uh, and, uh, no, it's, it's, as far as big cities go, uh, uh, progress,
uh, definitely a top three big, uh, big city metropolitan, big cities,
uh, in the world that I like.
So, so if you haven't been, you should absolutely go.
And by the way, the beer is just next level.
It's better than anywhere else on earth.
Like no question about it.
Yeah, we, we are in the middle of the Europe, so we have, we have
great beer, but we have also great wine and great heart, spirit.
We have everything what you can imagine from the good mix of, of Europe.
Yeah, and you have deaf administration, which we alluded to here in the
beginning, which is, uh, and we can reveal what it is now after
the show has, uh, an hour in here.
Uh, and it's basically it's throwing bureaucrats and
politicians out the windows, right?
Yes, yes.
It's an act of, um, of, uh, of throwing out, um, the, the leaders of parliament
or let's say in, in, in and of some, uh, yeah, bureaucrats from the windows.
It happened three times in Czech Republic in past, oof.
600 years I would say.
So we are waiting for another one.
Yeah, and if you want to know more about that and more about the history
of Frog, you should check out our interview with your brother Martin.
Uh, which we did, uh, maybe six months back or something, uh, if I recall
I think it was even more
Even more, maybe nine months or something.
Yeah.
uh, it was sometime before last BTC Pro, if I remember correctly.
So it's almost a
Oh yeah, yeah.
Almost a year now.
Yeah.
but for those who are curious, for those who are curious about the check history
and how it kind of fits, uh, and connect with Bitcoin, we have published, um, a
Freedom ebook, uh, which is, uh, which is free to download on our webpage,
and you can find a link on our Twitter.
And it's, it's quite interesting and, uh, short read and it, it gets you
through this like history, um, through these deaf administrations and, uh,
and some Sids wars up to the time when Bitcoin was, um, uh, discovered.
Uh, and, uh, and why the checks have picked up so fast.
And it lead us until the, the time when we are, uh, where we are now.
No, I can, uh, definitely recommend downloading that ebook.
So have I done and I've, uh, uh, read through it and it's, it's
full of great material and it's also very beautifully designed.
So, so I definitely recommend that.
And as we said before, use Code Infinity to, uh, get 10% off your ticket to Prague
and make sure you get your ass over there.
You're not gonna regret it.
Yeah.
it's fantastic.
You're not gonna regret it.
I, I am pretty sure about this.
Um, the satisfaction rate of BTC PRO is, is just, uh, absolutely amazing.
And if you pay with Bitcoin while using the Infinity code, you get another 5% off.
So it's, it's better to just buy Bitcoin and pay with it, um, to, to have a
bigger discount and just come, uh, take your friends, uh, buy the tickets soon
because they are quickly disappearing, especially the, the cheapest one.
And if you bring them there, you can be sure that they will fall
into this rabbit hole because the, the conviction which comes.
We seeing the whole conference, the export and thousands of people, it's,
it's unmatchable, it, it just clicks.
So if you have problem to convince someone, um, maybe this is the time
to seduce them for a trip to Prague and, and just bring them for one
day, for Saturday to, to this event and, and your, your work is done.
Now, uh, yeah.
Great tip.
So, so where, what's the website?
This BT.
C prague.com, right?
Yes, the website is btc product.com.
We have also site event, uh, uh, dev Hack Day, which you
can find on our main webpage.
If you are, if you are, uh, really interested about the edge of the
technology, you should apply for this one day conference before BTC product.
So it's 18th of June and if you are really into big money and corporate
word, we have just launched our BCD, which is Bitcoin Corporate Day.
And there's just one day site event, uh, for selected 210 individuals.
And this is just a topnotch networking during BTC product.
So you can also check that out, bitcoin corporate day.com.
Which day is the Bitcoin Corporate day?
It is, it's on Friday, it's 20th of June, so that means that you just
skip one day from BTC proc and you spend the day in a different venue.
Um, but you, you can, you can still, uh, meet others during the evening.
All right.
That sounds awesome.
And, uh, yeah, I, I guess B2C prog will return next year as well.
Uh.
yeah, for sure.
It's, uh, it's, it's a tradition.
I don't see why we should stop it.
Everyone.
Everyone's love it.
Uh, we really like to organize it.
It's a lot of fun.
And, and we have some, some other, other plans for future, but maybe we will
just keep this for, for our next time.
Yes, I may or may know, uh, something about this, but if I say
anything, you will have to kill me.
So, so I'll, I'll avoid that for now.
Uh, but there is more to come.
Be sure of that.
Uh, so where can people find you on online, Mathias?
Like what's your
So, yeah, I'm on Twitter.
I think if you just type my name, uh, you'll find me, or
the handle is Mathias 44 Cook.
Um, I'm on, I'm on Twitter, I'm on LinkedIn.
Um, if you, if you want to reach out with any proposal or some recommendation,
uh, for a program, please send an email to hello@btcproduct.com.
It'll get to me and I will be happy to, uh, to chat and, and, and to answer.
Fantastic.
So thank you very much for coming onto the show and, uh, uh, looking
forward a lot to B2C Prague.
Uh, looking forward to seeing both you and Martin there and, and having tons of fun.
So, till then, take care.
Thank bye.
This has been the Bitcoin Infinity Show.
Thanks for listening.