Aleks, welcome back to the Bitcoin Infinity Show.
Gentlemen, good to see you.
Good to see you, Aleks!
Again.
Last time we saw each other was in Buenos Aires, where you wanted to kill everyone.
Basically, what's what's new?
The, you know what it is, at the end of every year, I think
I'm ready to kill everyone.
And I need to like then switch off, go away.
And then I come back and I'm like more zenned out again.
I think what what, maybe the solution is I need to go away twice a year.
So that way before I get to the point of wanting to stab everybody.
I kind of like have a chance to segue.
Anyway.
now, jokingly, you didn't want to kill everyone, you hardly wanted
to kill anyone, but I can tell you, you were a bit fatigued from doing
too many conferences and doing too many things for For a long time.
And I think you've found your zen again here.
It feels like that.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm, I'm feeling better.
Got to go, go away a little bit, so much better.
And, and you have a lot of things, like there's a lot of news, like the big
thing is, yeah, well, you're obviously working on Satlantis, and we talked
about that last time quite a bit.
So if you want to check out what Satlantis is and how awesome it is,
you should check out Aleks's previous episode, uh, and we also talked a bit
about the Bushido of Bitcoin, which is out now, which is your magnum opus,
if you will, uh, could I call it that?
It's a, it's a big ass book that you wrote.
It's a, it's a giant.
Yeah.
530 pages.
I think I have it here.
Here it is,
Oh, holy.
the giant, it's, it's fucking, it's bigger than me, which is not that big.
Yeah,
Yeah.
I mean,
it's, um, yeah, 530 pages, 130, 000 words.
It's a, it's a monster.
And there, there is actually a.
A part two in the making, because I had to pull a big chunk out of the book,
which was, which was quite complete, but I couldn't figure out where to put
it without, uh, kind of disorienting the order and the, and, and the, the
structure that I have of the book.
Plus, I was trying to find things to cut because the book was
just getting excessively long.
I think I was at 150, 000 words or whatever.
So when I did that, I kind of sectioned it out and there will
be a part two and part two of.
It'll be basically I'm going to do the Bushido Bitcoin series.
So the second book will be called The Metaphysics of War and Beauty.
That's the second one that I'm working on.
It's going to be quite a, another book to challenge people.
Like this one definitely will challenge Bitcoiners and this next
one will challenge a larger audience.
so, uh, I mean, the Bushido Bitcoin is sort of, uh, Aleks
channeling his, his inner nature.
Right.
If I
A mixture.
Yeah.
A mixture of that.
So it's kind of like channeling some blend of Nietzsche, Hoppe, and Christianity
and obviously Japanese history.
So it's, you know, whatever that Venn diagram is there.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
With you in the middle.
Correct.
Yeah.
Trying to hold it all together.
You know, that meme with the, like the button trying to hold it all.
Did you see the, the Venn diagram for, for John Lennon?
Where, where they, the, the two circles, like being, being a good songwriter,
being a good poet, and they're separate.
And then
Yes.
big, big blob of being a decent person and it's also separated from the
others , like, so it's almost there.
Anyway, uh, , uh, yeah, I remember we had a like, um.
we figured out some similarities between, or a lot of similarities between our,
uh, Clown World book, The Inverse of Clown World, and Bushido Bitcoin.
When, uh, back in BTC Prague, um, in, when was that, June or something?
Um, May or June?
Yeah.
It was June.
Yes, so we had a long walk and we talked about, uh, your book and our book, and,
uh, figured out that they, they're very similar, like, because we're, we came
to similar conclusions, uh, About stuff.
I, I remember you had a, uh, you asked me about the, the word virtue and using
the word word virtue or if you, uh, if you should pick another word, in
fact that we brainstorming about that.
Do you remember that?
Did we get onto that from discussing why I didn't pick morality as the word?
Yeah.
Yes.
I, I believe so.
kind
Yeah.
The interesting stuff is always in the nuance.
And that's, I think one of the problems of the modern world is
that people have lost nuance.
Like most people are fucking either black or white or stupid, right?
And the, the, the challenge is finding someone to discuss, uh, the
nuance with and basically the, you know, the dance between the things.
So one example is I just listened to a good podcast.
That was basically breaking down Jordan Peterson's, uh, position on the history
of the West and really his emphasis on the Bible as the founding basis of the
West and, you know, he focuses very much so in like the, the Judean world
and he basically completely skips.
Greece, Rome, Macedonia, the Norse, the Germanic tribes, like it fucking
skips all of that and like, that's really where, that's European history.
That's the history of the West there, like, you know, Christianity forms a
part of it, but, um, and particularly the Judeo component, like real Christianity
is actually a European concept.
Had Europe not existed, had Aleksander not crossed into Asia, had Rome not
been built, uh, Christianity would never have made it to the West, right?
So, it's um, you know, anyway, that's a whole other tangent, but listening
to this podcast, there was just a lot of nuance in the discussion because,
you know, Nietzsche and I guess the traditional concept of Christianity
were not actually that far apart.
Um, what Christianity sort of devolved into was what
Nietzsche had a problem with.
And, um, most Modern people who would consider them Christian, they just sort of
hear the word Nietzsche, and they're like, oh, you know, he wrote the Antichrist, so
he must be evil, um, and they kind of like throw the baby out with the bathwater.
And it's really shallow thinking.
It's, it's a, it's a, it's an inability to play with nuance.
And, you know, that's one of the things I like about our discussions is
that we can dance around the nuance.
We can tussle, we can wrestle, and that's, that's how you come up with shit.
funny, funnily enough, I, this morning I watched the, uh, uh, the celebration
of Hitchmas, if you know what that is, uh, so it's a bunch of people, uh,
celebrating, uh, Christopher Hitchens.
which was one of the four horsemen of the new atheist movement like 15 years ago.
So it was a panel with Douglas Murray, uh, Richard Dawkins.
What's his, what's his name?
Lawrence Kraus and Stephen Fry, uh, uh, which was like the intellectual
dark web, quote unquote, 15 years ago.
all kind of, they're all kind of, they're all kind of lefty, um, but they, but
Christopher had, uh, like a very special, I mean, he was part of, I wouldn't have,
probably wouldn't have found Bitcoin if it wasn't for that guy, because he was
so good at, at just poking holes at empty arguments and, and calling people idiots.
And I really love that aspect of it.
And there was some really fun back, funny back and forth
about Jordan Peterson and about.
Um, uh, what Christopher would have, uh, thunk, uh, uh, about, like, the woke
religion, like, he was bashing religion a lot, and, like, what he would have
thought of the latest fads with, uh, transgender stuff and, and all of this.
And, uh, yeah, how he compared back in the day, how he compared it, he traveled
to North Korea and how he compared that to, uh, Catholicism and the similarities
between, um, the deity in being Mr.
Kim in North Korea and, and the Pope, like the, the similarities between them.
Uh, so there's some interesting stuff there because this is like, This is
coming from a completely different angle.
Yeah, although I think that's a pretty shallow angle.
I think there's, uh, there's a lot of tradition, um, in Catholicism
that doesn't exist in North Korea.
Like North Korea is a modern construct.
But yeah, maybe some surface level similarities.
where was I?
I had a thread here.
Luke, help me out here.
Well, I, I think, I think that the thing we were talking about is the, the, a
lot of the intersection that, that we've been, uh, dancing around between our,
our various books and the projects that we've been working on is, is something
about having these discussions about the important things in Bitcoin and in life.
A common thread, I think, for all three of us has definitely been that Bitcoin
is one extremely important aspect of life, but The philosophical side,
the philosophical angle of Bitcoin has to fit in with this, this frame.
It all has to make sense somehow.
And, uh, I mean, I, I've, I've always looked at Bitcoin from
this kind of philosophical lens.
And I, I know the, the two of you also do as well.
And basically, I think one of the things that started to come out of Prague,
I hope this is where you were going with this Knut, but, but I think it's
logical anyway, is, is that The three of us are pretty darn aligned in terms
of the importance of facilitating these discussions and getting the word out
about generally and what it means to us and it clear why this is important.
And so we've been doing our own little thing for the last
couple of years, Knut and I.
We've had these, uh, this podcast, and Knut's obviously been doing, uh,
books for, for a while before that.
Um, but now we're getting pretty, pretty serious about really growing,
uh, This thing that we're doing, and we've, we've got a whole bunch, a whole
bunch of things coming up, honestly, that are, uh, really intensifying our
ability to, to facilitate this, say, Bitcoin educational initiative or
Bitcoin philosophical, uh, I don't know, think tank, mind meld, whatever it is.
Um, and one of these things that we came up with.
In, in Prague was the Bitcoin Times magazine.
Basically the, from, from our side, uh, we'd known about Bitcoin Times from,
from its, uh, You know, reputation in the community, uh, this collectible magazine
that, uh, that had long form articles from the best, biggest voices in the, in
the space, really, and, um, yeah, maybe there was something that we could do,
uh, with you on this, and so, basically, I think, I think where we are is that,
uh, we're working together on this.
The Bitcoin Times going forward, and maybe I can hand it off
to you now, Aleks, to uh,
Let me, yeah, let me, let me take over because I think there's,
2025 is going to be special.
So for everyone listening, Luke, Knut and I are going to be doing
something together with Bitcoin Times.
But before I get onto that, I just want to say part of Part of the thing that's
happened to me over the last 12 months, and Knut you'd probably know this more
than anyone because, you know, I've become a little bit of a, not a Bitcoin bear,
but a Bitcoin I don't care kind of guy.
Like I've sort of started to slowly by slowly like extract
myself from the community.
Um, you know, the new business I'm running, Atlantis, as much as it's got
like some element of Bitcoin stuff about it, it's really not a Bitcoin product.
Uh, it's not You know, it's not really built for Bitcoiners either, like,
there's, there's, Bitcoiners will find utility there, um, but, you know,
I'm going for a different market.
Likewise, my next book, The Metaphysics of War and Beauty, while it's a part,
it's an extension to, to this, um, you know, it's not really a book about
Bitcoin, and, and neither is this one for that matter, like, I'm just sort
of, I've, I've reached the point.
Uh, in my personal and professional journey where, uh,
Bitcoin is less important to me.
It's, it's something that I want to see, uh, recede in the background.
Now, that doesn't mean that I don't still hold, uh, all of
the things that I came across.
Uh, as true and as important and as necessary to help other people know, I
think that is definitely still important.
The thing is, my interest is just taking me somewhere else.
And for those who know about the Bitcoin Times and who know that I, uh,
started it back in 2018 or whatever it is, and who are watching the different
editions come out, et cetera, know that it was a high quality publication,
but it's just something that I don't have the time nor the level of
desire interest to keep, uh, leading.
And, and I think, you know, the older you get, the more, I mean, I don't know
if this is just me or if it's everyone as they get older, but I want to do less
things and I want to do them better.
I think in my 20s I wanted to do everything and I wanted to do it as
good as possible and I think I just burnt a lot of gas in the process.
we were just, we were just discussing before we got on the call about how
I went off to Patagonia for about a week and I completely switched off,
turned off my phone, turned off, like basically left the screens away and had
to drive around without a fucking GPS.
Right.
Like, so just trying to figure it out and going and paying for food and at
the restaurant and everything in cash.
So like just disconnected from the world and it, and it felt so good.
And I guess a big, a big initiative for me in 2025 is to, to do less and to do
it of higher quality because I've reached the point in my life where I don't
want to be spinning too many plates.
Um, so this.
I think the, the, the match here is very nice because you guys, as far
as I understand, are really doubling down as a brand in the Bitcoin space.
And that's no longer my intention.
I don't want to be a brand in the Bitcoin space anymore.
Um, in fact, I've even honestly thought about just completely nuking
all of my socials, just wiping everything and just, you know, Forget
about being a brand of any sort.
Um, the challenge there is obviously would like to see the
book, uh, continue to do its thing.
And, you know, a, a bit of a personal brand does help with business.
So I guess I need to decide how to use it and what to do about it.
But yeah, I, I, to kind of finish up what you were saying as a, as
a first step, and then we can go dig into the history a little bit.
Um, I could not think of.
better sort of like face or a better sort of fit for the Bitcoin times, like to, to
take it on and to move it forward because it's got potential and it definitely
needs to be in the world because there's another, what, 7 billion people who don't
have Bitcoin properly or whatever it is.
Like, that's a lot of people.
Um, and as we all know, and this is not going to change, Bitcoin
is going to end up, uh, yeah.
Being used by everyone.
That's not a, it's not an if, it's just a when.
And along that way, people need to learn and understand about it.
And I think this publication has the potential to really reach and impact
a lot of people in that capacity.
So I'll shut up there.
But that's a bit of why for me, this is an interesting, Time in life.
Well, thank you for your kind words and for leaving Bitcoin Times with us.
We consider it a great honor.
Yeah, a couple of things to unpack there.
First, What guarantee do we have that you're not going to come back in a couple
of weeks and say that everyone that goes offline for five days is completely
stupid and you want to kill them?
No guarantees.
Sorry, Knut, there's no guarantees in
No, no, but I think, I think, uh, like one of the things where we
found, like, uh, how aligned we are is, is this notion of, uh, quality
being the opposite of equality.
I think that's like perfect.
That's the perfect, that's the, in the middle of the Venn diagram
between us three, I think.
So, so we're, we're going to take over the Bitcoin times and, um,
yeah, this is where, um, 2018, you said, you started the thing?
2018.
Yeah, exactly.
So 2018, I wrote the first one and we released it in,
um, January, I think of 2019.
Let's go into, uh, how Bitcoin times started and where it's going.
So let's start where, where, where it started, like in the beginning, the,
the first issue is, uh, mostly you,
do you actually know the story or no?
well, we, I think we, we know, but, but maybe our listeners
don't.
I'll pretend I don't, yeah.
yes, so the story so here's how it happened I'm gonna go back
to the very very beginning.
Um, it was 2017 and I was no, sorry wait No, it was 2018.
2018.
I got invited to this, uh, conference for capital raising.
And, uh, it was, uh, it was a company called Wholesale Investor.
They were in, uh, in, in Australia.
They'd been around for years.
They used to do like this magazine where people would like pitch their,
uh, idea, for example, and the magazine would only go out to people who are
qualified accredited investors in which in Australia is called a Wholesale Investor.
Um, and that's how, uh, People would raise capital, right?
Like it was one of the mechanisms and as things evolve, they ended up, you
know, building out a website and they used to run these sort of, uh, biannual
summits, uh, where they'd invite a bunch of companies and you'd exhibit, right?
So I, I went, and this was in the early days of Amber when I was, uh,
still raising money early, early stage.
And it was right when the, um, it was right in the ICO boom.
Every Tom, Dick and Harry was like pulling out a token for whatever.
And, and I go to this event, this is mid 2018 and I am the only quote
unquote crypto company there, like I'm the only Bitcoin company there.
And there's a bunch of other companies like data science
and B2B this and whatever.
And every single one of those had a token.
And I'm the only actual Bitcoin crypto related company without a token.
And.
It was like this wild experience.
I was like, what fucking planet have I walked into?
And everyone's on stage talking about their stupid token.
So I get up on stage to give my talk.
And, uh, my talk was about how, uh, it was something to do with like, uh,
Crypto being the AOL of the internet, something like that, and I just basically
took a shit all over crypto, and I blew up the notion of ICOs, and I could see
the organizer in the back of the room, like, his face just got increasingly pale
throughout the talk, and Basically, at the end of the talk, half the audience,
like, claps like crazy, and the other half of the audience, like, you could
feel like they wanted to kill me.
And you know, I get off the stage and, you know, there's, there's, I basically
get this alternate of, do you know how much money you just fucking cost me?
Versus, oh my God, thank you.
I've been sitting here all day listening to people talk and I have no idea
what the fuck they were talking about.
And you're the first person who made sense.
Like that, that was like the two general responses and reactions that I got.
And I ended up raising quite a bit of money out of that because, like,
people came to me that were like.
Thank you for actually, like, raising money in a, in a legitimate way.
And anyway, the organizer comes up to me and he says, uh, You are officially
banned from our, uh, conference.
Um, please, uh, never come back again.
Um, you cost all of our sponsors an incredible amount
of money, blah, blah, blah.
So yeah, I'm like, okay, no worries, get fucked.
Um, six months later The same organizer messages me, and if you remember six
months later, end of 2018, ICO bubble had burst, everything had collapsed, everyone
lost all their money, all this sort of stuff, and he kind of sheepishly reaches
out, he's like, oh, you know, we had some harsh words, uh, at the end of the last,
uh, conference, blah, blah, blah, but you know what, in the end, You were right.
And I've had so many people reach out to us, uh, requesting you to come
back and give another talk because you saved all the money, this and that.
And he goes, look, don't worry.
This year there is no ICOs.
Uh, this year it's about blockchain technology.
I was like sitting there, I was like,
and you want me to come and talk about blockchain technology?
He's like, yeah, I think you're the right person for this.
You know, you gave one of the most knowledgeable talks and everything.
And I was like, okay.
It's like, but this time you have to run the, the, the talk by me.
And I was like, okay, no worries.
So I went away and I put together this talk about how, uh, blockchain is dead.
The future is on, uh, Lightning.
That was the, that was the emphasis of the talk, but that's obviously
not what I called the talk.
I called the talk, um, the, uh, the future of blockchain is on
lightning or something like that.
I kind of like kept it relatively vague because these guys were
like classic NPC midwits.
Like, they just, they don't understand anything.
So anyway, I go to this next conference.
And the same thing, I tell the AV guy, I switch out the USB at the last minute,
and I'm like, I just had some updates on my talk, puts this new talk in, get up on
stage, and I go, so this talk was supposed to be about this, but then I swapped to
the next thing and I go, this talk is really about the death of blockchain.
And I see the guy in the background at the back of the room
again, and his face goes white.
He's like, this motherfucker did it to me again.
And I give this whole talk about how.
Blockchain is a total scam.
It's a stupidity.
It's just a bunch of buzzwords and all this stuff, all the stuff that we know.
Right.
But I had too much to say on the talk.
Like there was just way too much information there.
So I put it all into this like flyer, this pamphlet that I
wanted to give away on the day.
And we just called that the Bitcoin times.
So that basically edition one is the extension of the talk that I
gave, uh, at that conference, it was, it was the extended notes.
And.
That was the genesis of the Bitcoin Times.
So that's the first issue.
that was the first issue.
Yeah, that was, no, no, that was, that was, that was the
genesis of the Bitcoin times.
So then basically that got a bunch of, that, that kind of.
Somewhat put me on the map because I had only started using Twitter in 2018 and
I was relatively unknown that there was, there was a prior essay that I did where
it was a Bitcoin versus Bitcoin cash.
That was the one that got me on the map.
Uh, Tua Mazzucco picked it up and I had no idea who the fuck these two people
were cause I was just the total noob on Twitter and I was like, Oh, okay, cool.
And then all of a sudden, like I went from three followers to like And
that's where my, my Twitter journey effectively began.
And, um, The, the second edition was, I had basically at that point,
um, yeah, entered the, uh, the Bitcoin community, quote unquote.
I went to my first conference, which was in, uh, San
Francisco, it was Bitcoin 2019.
And that's where I, like, I met Odell there.
I met, uh, Marty Ben.
We did a, we did a podcast discussing the first edition, all this sort of stuff.
And towards the end of the year, I was like, man, I should totally do
something else with the Bitcoin times.
I like.
It's a cool name.
Um, the first edition was really nicely designed.
Everyone liked it.
So I reached out to a couple of people who at the time were pretty much
unknown, unless you were like really interconnected in the Bitcoin space.
And those people were, uh, Breedlove, uh, Gigi, um, Rory Whiteside.
If I've, I don't know if too many people know him still.
He was like, he was one of the toxic Bitcoin maxes in, um, in, in Australia.
Uh, Hasma Cook.
Um, who's kind of disappeared now,
yeah, I, I, I miss Hasma Cook.
yeah, he was a legend, um, there was, uh, Nick Carter as well, um, before he
kind of went a little crazy, uh, who else was there, Conor Brown, Conor was also
disappeared as well, um, there was one more, oh, and Dan Held, yeah, fucking Dan.
Um, so anyway, that was, uh, that was the, the first round, right?
Uh, that was like a collective edition and it was great, man.
Like that one, that one really did the rounds.
And then it was the third edition.
So the year after, which was 2020, that kind of put Bitcoin
times properly on the map.
So the first edition put me on the map.
Uh, second edition was me getting integrated into the community.
And the third edition was like the one that, uh, went really well
because that had some massive names.
So that was Jimmy Song.
It was Giacomo, it was, uh, Erik Cason.
It was Jeff Booth.
Um, it was Parker Lewis and myself.
So that was, uh, it was six solid, solid essays.
So some of the best I think that have ever been in there.
And then, yeah, the year after we did the, um, the, what was the third edition was
called the Promethean and then the fourth edition, it's escaping me at the moment.
Um, God damn it.
What was the name of it?
A New Hope.
That's right.
A New Hope.
That's what it was called.
Uh, and it was, it was the year after, obviously, like we were still right in
the middle of all the, um, the stupidity, but I think by the end of 2021, things had
started to kind of die down a little bit.
And I think Brandon Quidham's best essay that he's ever written was in there.
Um, one of, I think, sorry.
thing?
Bitcoin is a pioneer species.
So
yeah, I
Uh, it's the one, isn't it?
Yeah.
That, that is, that is the article, right?
Like it's,
uh, that's his, yeah.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
of it.
Yeah.
Bitcoin is a pioneer species.
Yeah.
Fantastic essay.
Um, so there was that.
I think one of my better ones as well.
The fire Bitcoin teleportation is in there.
Then there's a couple of pieces from who else?
Peter Sinanji.
Oh yeah,
Tomer was in there.
Peter Santongi wasn't that big back then, was
He was not.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So like Bitcoin times, like it had people before they took off basically.
Um, and it was, uh, yeah, it was, it was, it was really good.
And then obviously number five was the, was the Austrian edition.
It was the first one that had a really good, like, cohesive theme, right?
And that was Seyfriedin, Pierre, it was Bittstein's first essay
back after being off for like, three years or whatever it was.
Um, Conrad Graf, who wrote an excellent piece, and,
both those are so underrated, like Biststein and Conrad
Graf, they're, they're
very much so,
criminally underrated.
very much so.
Um, and Rahim as well, um,
Another criminally underrated guy.
Absolute genius.
And yeah, me and Rahim actually, his, his piece was great because he's like,
goddammit, like, if there's a guy who is, like, truly a, an encyclopedia on Austrian
economics and Austrian history and all that sort of stuff, he's the guy, like,
holy shit, like, he's so knowledgeable.
I, like, here's someone I sit down with and just like talk about just any, asking
any random question to do with like these kind of topics and he like, he's
read a book on it, he knows about it.
I'm like, what the
No, the, the, I, I view him as the heir to the throne, like it's, uh,
Mises, Rothbard, even if you go further back, it's, like, Menger, Mises,
Rothbard, or Böhmerberg, Menger, Mises, Rothbard, Hoppe, and then Rahim.
Like,
well, yeah.
He's, uh, yeah, he's um, super knowledgeable.
So that was number five and he, his piece was great and they actually did more
of a historic look at, uh, The Austrian tradition and how it came to be, and
that was, that was really educational.
Like I love reading the pieces that genuinely teach me something new and
that was a standout for me, for sure.
And then, yeah, the energy edition was, um, Wait, was that
last year or the year before?
God help me.
I'm, I've lost my, lost count of the years now.
I, I think it was, I think it was the year before that it was supposed to
come out, but there was delays with it.
Uh, and I think it came out 2024 actually.
So the Energy Edition, Marty Bent, Brian Gitt.
Andrew from Satoshi Energy.
Uh, there was a excellent piece in there from, um, the guy who
runs Toya, uh, what's his name?
Um, he's in the, he's in the Bitcoin mining space.
He's, he, he comes from like a family of wildcatters and like, he wrote this
piece about like, uh, basically energy, abundance and the limiting factor of.
Uh, human civilization economics just being ingenuity more than anything else.
Like the, he pulled it from Julian Simon, who's like this economics
slash physicist, very interesting guy.
I'd never heard of him before.
And his whole argument is that we don't run out of atoms.
Like the atoms are there.
What we are short on at any particular point in time is the ingenuity.
And the capacity to extract or harvest the energy from those atoms or
those materials or those substances.
That's the only real limiting factor.
Um, so, so that was a very, very, very interesting piece.
Um, and yeah, that brings us to now.
So that was, uh, the, the 7, sorry, the 6.
Original editions and a bit of an overview of the history of the
Bitcoin time started as a troll and ended in, uh, in a, in a worthy
application, uh, sorry, publication.
no, it's fantastic.
And I remember like, I, I think we've met in, I mean, first time we met in real
life was in Mexico, I believe, uh, in 21
Yeah, yeah, I think so.
and, and after that in Miami in 22.
Um, and that's where you, that's where you brought the, where you showed me the
Bitcoin times for the first time, I think.
Mm hmm, mm hmm, mm
and you have, and
we had talks back and forth, uh, a couple of times after that of, uh,
if I'm going to contribute something to the magazine and here we are, like
taking over the whole thing, , it's just, uh, it's just, just surreal.
Um, but yeah, we're, we intend to take it in to keep, keep the tradition up and,
uh, to, to keep, keep them themed and, and, uh, this high quality we really want.
The, top-notch brand Bitcoin essays in, in Bitcoin is, and it's, which
sounds like the, a tough thing to do, but there's, there's one a year
Yeah.
So, so, so you really get, you, you really have time to, to talk
people into doing it and picking the right ones for the right issue.
So yeah, looking forward to the.
Taking, taking the helm of the ship.
It's really Luke taking the helm of the ship though, uh, isn't it Luke?
Uh, yeah, I mean in, in, in terms of, uh, our organization for this, maybe
a little bit behind the curtain of our, of our enterprise generally, is
that everything that we're doing kind of on the, the publishing side is,
is, uh, I'm, I'm kind of taking the.
But I also, I really like this project, and yeah, I think since we discussed
taking this on, I've always had a lot of interest in being involved with it, and
that, yeah, it would be great to be able to take this thing forward and really,
really help to build out and amplify the voices that we work with in the space.
I mean, this is, in a lot of ways, this is sort of Tying together
everything that we're doing with, with podcasting, which in a lot of
ways for, for anyone listening, it, it, the, the biggest benefit I think
of, of doing this generally and, and listening to all the voices in the
space is just getting to know everyone and, and who's doing what and who's,
who's saying something important and really figuring that out, you know,
and, uh, I, I feel really privileged to get to, to do this all the time.
And then when moving into the book publishing side and I think this
was actually even the first thing we even talked about with this was that
paperback editions of the Bitcoin Times was ready and let's bookmark this as
far as like all the different formats of Bitcoin Times, but, but, um, To
get paperbacks out, basically, was one of the goals of the thing, and we've
been figuring out how to get all of Knut's books out in a good, proper
fashion, better than self publishing.
That's at least what we try to be, is better than self publish.
But, um, I'm coming to a point, I promise.
Um, the, the, the main thing is that, that through, through this Through Bitcoin
Times now, what my hope is, is that, uh, we can, we can also bring together
all the people that we're, we're talking to and, and hey, these are the, the
issues of the day, uh, and, and get them into, uh, a format that is timeless.
The, the first edition really does feel like a snapshot of that point in time.
And, and.
it really was.
Yeah, and reading those articles, it's like, like, this is, this is, this is
important, this is part of history, and this is, this is, this is something that,
that, uh, anyone can, can look at into the future at what this, this era was, and,
and even going, going further into the, into the further issues, it's, it's like,
what's important at the time, and, and, and bringing this forward in the future,
so yeah, I'm, I'm, I guess this is all just to say I'm really excited about this,
You said a key word there, history, and this is something I wanted for the Bitcoin
Times from the beginning, is that I chose to do one edition a year, and the original
vision, and I mean, this might change, and we can discuss this as we go, but the idea
was to do 21 editions over 21 years, and to sort of make it, A piece of history.
And I like the idea of starting something with like a set end goal.
Um, you know, maybe Satoshi seemed to like the same thing, you know, wanting
to just end the money in 2140, but I think it's, it's a, there's something
to be said about that and not this sort of like perpetual have to, you
know, work and build something forever.
Right?
Like, sure, it could be something that has ends up, you know, with
a hundred additions and, you know, we pass it to our kids or whatever.
But, but I think this sort of idea of, you know, 21 additions over 21 years
during a period of the most formative time for Bitcoin, I think is very powerful.
And the fact that there's a paperback, which is accessible to anybody, uh, and a
collectible, which is limited in nature.
gives it a, gives it a special feel, right?
It's people who discover the Bitcoin times for the first time in edition 14
or 15, for example, will be like, damn, I want this collectible, and now I want
the prior collectibles, and I'm going to go and grab all those prior collectibles
so that I have the whole set, right?
And they'll know that that set is one of 2100.
They'll never be, Uh, more than that many.
And I can't give you the same guarantee as Bitcoin can.
Um, but it's, yeah, there's a high, like, these are collectibles.
And I guess you'll have to trust us, uh, in the, in the process of producing that.
So yeah, I don't, I don't think people do.
Stuff like that.
I shouldn't say anymore, but it's, uh, it's far more rare.
There's the, the, we spoke about quality and equality earlier.
Um, there's also quality and quantity, right?
And they're usually inversely related.
Um, you know, you, if you increase the quantity of the money, infinitely, you
infinitely decrease the quality of it.
And so these things are somewhat related.
So anyway, that's.
When you said history, that just reminded me of that is like, I hope this is
something that people 50, 100 years from now look back on and be like, oh, these
crazy bastards, you know, put together these 21 editions and each one, the older
it was, the more fantastic it sounded at the time, but each year proved them right,
not only again and again, but decades from now, they were proven right looking
back at these, uh, essays and issues.
So I think it's really cool.
The thing that comes to mind for me here is, uh, uh, similar but
yet different magazine and that is Citadel 21, which is Hodlonaut's
project, uh, uh, remember that?
He, uh, he also, you have to trust his word, but, uh, there's a thousand
copies of each edition of that, but that came out like, uh, every two months,
I believe, for, or maybe once a month?
I don't remember.
Yeah.
I think
think
it was monthly,
yeah,
either monthly or every two months, I think it might have been every two
months in the beginning and then monthly later on, but he only made 21 editions
of it, and that was really cool, some of my, uh, best performing articles
ever were in that magazine, and I had a lot of them in there, so like
that's my experience with working with a magazine, uh, and in Bitcoin, uh,
before, and there are similarities, yeah.
he, he nailed it with that.
And, and I mean, when I saw that he was doing one a month, I was
like, this guy's fucking crazy.
I was like, there's no chance.
Like
the amount of effort that went into doing one a year for me was too much.
And I was like, one a month, that's nuts.
But yeah, it's a mammoth of an effort.
So, so let me ask you guys then considering, uh, you'll be taking this
over and, uh, and, and driving it.
What's.
What's the plans for 2025 and what's the plans for beyond that?
Maybe I should throw this to Luke actually, since
he's going to be driving the
train.
clever,
Yeah, totally.
So, so, yeah, the, the plan here is, first of all, we want to get collectible
editions out for issues one and two.
They never had a print release, so, or at least a print release
in the collectible format.
And so we want to fix that and get those out into the world.
It's content here and it's, it's, Completing everyone's collections.
So basically that's, that's the first priority.
We're going to have pre orders for these out on Geyser fairly soon here.
And, uh, yeah, that's, that's our first action is to complete those.
The, the second thing that we're doing somewhat in parallel is releasing
paperback editions for all of the first six issues of the Bitcoin Times.
So this was what I was getting at in terms of, of, of format.
was that there's these collectible editions, 2, 100 of them, period.
And those have a higher price, um, obviously because they're scarce.
But accessibility has been an important theme, and this is in all of the
issues, or at least it's in all of the paperback issues as they were
drafted, is what are all of the formats.
And first of all, the essays are freely available on bitcointimes.
io, so it's not like the information isn't free.
It's.
That's the, that's the purpose is to get the information out there.
Then also, the paperback editions are meant to be for those who
want to have a physical copy.
But, you know, the collectible edition, maybe, maybe you're not quite
there in terms of buying something a little more expensive, right?
So, so the paperback is there to be more accessible for that.
And, and I mean, the thing about this is that it's, it's anthologies
of articles on related topics.
So, really, they are, they're books that, that are just collections of essays as
opposed to one author, um, um, writing an entire book on, on the topic, but
it's, it's a, a really good way to, to dig into one of these specific topics,
and that's, that's something we certainly plan to continue is keep this Theme,
um, going, maybe we'll revisit some, some past themes in, in, in some way.
But ev every one of the editions will have have its own take or
spin or, or central concept.
So the, the paperback editions are all just about ready.
These will all definitely be released within 2025, even
maybe first half of 2025.
I don't wanna promise.
But yeah, these are all basically ready to go here.
And so those are happening in parallel.
The reissue, so to say, of issues one and two, or at least the launch of
the collectible edition, and then the paperback launch editions one to six.
And then finally, we've been working on edition number seven.
So after basically the energy issue coming out last year, now we want
to get another edition out in 2025.
So that's, uh, that's 100 percent the goal.
The macro edition is the, is the, uh, working title for that.
I think that's probably going to stick.
Uh, so yeah, basically we're, uh, we're, uh, coming at this from,
from three different fronts here.
I think, uh, second half of, of 2025 is, is what we're looking at for,
uh, Uh, for edition number seven,
Yeah, let's talk a little bit about the macro edition, because I think
people need to get excited about that.
So, I originally had a lineup.
So we had Lynn Alden, uh, on the lineup.
Jeff Booth.
Uh, making, he's, I think he will be the first person making a second appearance.
Um, now, not confirmed whether Jeff is going to write a piece or if
he's going to write the foreword.
we had a maybe from Preston Pysh.
Um, we had, uh, What's his name?
Dylan Leclerc, James Lavish said yes as well, and uh, Larry
Lepard, that's who I remember.
So that's the, that's the lineup.
So it's a, it's a stellar lineup, there's a couple in there, a couple
of names in there yet to be confirmed.
So if anyone has, if anyone's listening to this and has, uh, some suggestions, if
we're missing anyone, please let us know.
But that's, that's who I've got.
fantastic line up.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And so I mean, I think, I think the thing is everything we can
expect from from those names.
And I mean, the the idea of macro, I think is, is, it's important
from the perspective of that, that what's going on in the world
affects everything with Bitcoin.
And we all kind of are driving towards this number go up thing.
And there are factors outside of Bitcoin that That are, are affecting
how this journey is going to play out.
And so there, there are great people in the space who, who know this stuff, who
know about markets, traditional markets and, and things that, that maybe people
who are deep into the Bitcoin space don't understand or don't really pay
attention to, to these external things.
And so, uh, yeah, I, I think of the, the macro angle as the
closest thing to a crystal ball on.
Looking into a crystal ball on how Bitcoin is going to play
out over the next few years.
And then you can sort of understand that you might need
to throw away 90 percent of it.
But, because it's just going to do whatever it does.
But having some, having some understanding, and all of these, all of
these names are incredibly bullish people.
Having spoken to them, I think actually all of them on this topic.
So, anyway, everyone, everyone on that, that list is incredibly bullish,
right, and hearing explanations of why from people who understand this stuff,
I think is one of the, the best ways of convincing people who are, who are
more tied into the traditional system.
for listening.
And this is important, right?
Because we need adoption from every angle.
And, I mean, I don't really care what your opinion is of people
who are, who have wealth in the traditional financial system.
Speaking to hypothetical listener X.
Uh, probably, well, whatever.
But, but, um, the, uh, the, the main thing is, is people with capital
are important to have in Bitcoin.
No matter what, and these voices are some of the best who know how to talk
to people with capital who may be interested in Bitcoin as a whole, so
I think the macro edition is perfectly timed right now with the rise of EFs,
with the rise of, um, what was the word that Corey used for, he's starting to
use it on Twitter all the time for these
micro strategy clones, uh,
Yeah, that was a good word.
It was a good word.
He's used it on Twitter a bunch.
But anyway, with the rise of all of these, these, um, sort of Bitcoin derivative
instruments, it's, it's a really great time to be talking about this stuff.
So I'm, I'm excited for the macro edition for, for what it can
bring to the discourse in 2025.
LBEs, right?
Well, what is, what is it, what does that stand for though?
Bitcoin, uh, equity, something, L something, Bitcoin equity.
Ah, I wish I remembered this.
right, right, right, like leveraged Bitcoin equities, Leveraged,
leveraged Bitcoin equities,
as in, as in, like, the stocks leverage themselves to buy more, and then, and
then if you buy the stock, then you're buying basically leveraged Bitcoin long.
Interesting, right?
So,
uh, we have a, we have a pod coming out with Corey Clipston, uh, on this topic.
Uh, I'm going to guess, actually, it's going to be out after this, this episode.
Um, but we've talked to him before.
We've already talked to him.
Let's see, anyway, so, looking at, looking to the future, yeah, like, the, the
main thing, the main thing here is, is collecting Having a finger on the pulse of
what's important in the Bitcoin ecosystem.
And, and, um, so we're going to be looking at that through 2025.
What are the, what are the themes that are coming up the most?
I mean, think about creating something timeless and a historical snapshot.
From my perspective, the main thing here is to not Um, not be too behind, right,
we don't want to date ourselves, we don't want to lock ourselves into, this is
definitely from exactly this, this moment in history, and it's not necessarily
relevant, um, five years down the road, something like that, but, but at the
same time, having, Something that is actually relevant to the current moment
and to not let that slip by, basically.
So, thinking about the themes that are important at the moment, and
maybe it does look like the political angle might be getting a little bit
more prominent these days, nation state adoption and the implications
there, government involvement.
And, and then there's all sorts of technical things, like maybe there's
a, maybe there's a, uh, a layer two follow up, um, to, to be done here now
that there is more than just lightning going on here in the space, right?
So, so we, we can basically Cycle through these, these larger categories, right?
Um, I've always liked Gigi's framing of, of, um, Bitcoin
has these three sides to it.
The technological side, the financial side, and the philosophical side.
Uh, that, that, that framing from 21 Lessons has always,
has always stuck with me.
Um, so, so I kind of would like to, to cycle through those, those three to a
certain extent and, and hit on something that is, is big from each of those
three areas as, as we go through time.
Not necessarily sticking to that rigidly, but, but, uh, I, I think there's always
something to draw inspiration from.
So I see that being a trend as we move this forward.
What do you think of that, Ale
Yeah, I think that's great.
I think I'd also like to see, uh, Knut's favorite topic, like a theology edition.
Absolutely.
Why not?
I
be great.
that's one of the areas where I've, uh, You know, it changed my mind most,
mostly, uh, over, over the years, uh, like I, I, I still have no belief in
invisible friends, but I have a belief in people who believe in, uh, uh, invisible
friends that has increased, uh, let's just say that, uh, and I, I think like
if, um, if I have a vision for this, it's, it's to find the invisible friend.
Topics that are relevant for that year, but content that is completely timeless.
Like, that's the thing, we don't want to be a news outlet.
Like, we want this to be a standard test of time.
And that's really hard.
Like, it's hard to not be dated.
Um, but yeah.
And I want, I want, like, with all my writings, I want this thing as well
to provoke thought in the reader.
Like, that's what you want.
You want the reader to start thinking.
Stop, baa, baa, baa, and just
come to their own conclusions.
So, yeah, I think this, um, should give a picture here.
This, uh, uh, this new project, Of ours, us taking this on, um, you
know, I'm thrilled for it, excited to be taking this in the future.
You're obviously going to still be involved a fair bit, but we're taking
over the day to day, so to say.
The actually getting it done of the new editions and the publication itself, so.
Yeah, but I do want anyone kind of involved to rest assured that you're
still going to have a role in this thing,
kind of shepherding this thing along in some identity.
But I have a feeling you'll be contributing articles and
a whole bunch of other things.
100%.
Yeah.
100%.
right, gents.
you know what I'd like to do an edition on?
Tell me.
Yeah.
Epistemology.
Methodology.
Yeah.
That'd be great.
Like, uh, bro science.
Does it have any merit?
That,
Absolutely.
I'll do the bro science piece and Rahim can do the Austrian economics piece.
Yeah.
who's doing the traditional academic reasoning piece.
Yeah, that's a good question.
Who wants to, uh, stand up, uh, for that?
Um, no, hey, like, uh, I think before we, uh, I think before we wrap up, uh,
Aleks, give us an update on everything else that's, uh, been going on.
Obviously, you talked about that Bushido is released.
How is the launch going?
It's going well.
Um, I've, uh, we've sold in total, I think, including the
pre sales on the crowdfund, about 2000 copies, maybe a little more.
So it's, um, it's off to a good start.
Um, next year I'm going to hit a bit of a podcast roadshow and talk more about some
of the more controversial things in there.
And I'm going to actually focus more of my time actually going
on to non Bitcoin podcasts.
I want to kind of like enter the zeitgeist.
Um, or enter the, the discussion into, in, in other areas.
So that's that.
And then beyond that, um, the focus is really going to be on SITLANTIS.
I just, just released an essay the other day, kind of
grappling with what SITLANTIS is.
And it's been, it's been tough because when people ask me like,
Oh, what problem are you solving?
Um, It's very hard because we're not, when we're, in, in building Selantis,
we're not solving a specific problem.
We're, we're creating a new category of product.
We're trying to build something that doesn't yet really exist.
And it's got, it's got elements from multiple different products as a,
like a, uh, a super app for sovereign individuals, you know, for lack of
a better term here, something like it doesn't actually exist today.
Um, and that's, that's You know, what we've got to do in some senses, we've
got to understand who this archetype is, who this growing audience is, and
understand, uh, what they're looking for.
And we've got to carve out a new category for these people.
So, uh, most of, I think, The majority of my time next year is going to go
into really working through that and building something that becomes a hub
for events, for locations, merchants, venues, discovery, people, that sort
of stuff that are within the community.
The, the frame of interest, uh, for who I'd consider sovereign individuals
and that's, you know, that includes Bitcoiners, but also includes
people that essentially want more autonomy of the, over their lives.
And, you know, that, that goes beyond just Bitcoin.
So, autonomous entities, rather than sovereign individuals?
But yeah, maybe that's a better way to put it, you know,
Yeah.
Non
autonomous, humans, um, non NPCs.
I don't know.
I've got, I've got to find a, I've got to find a
NPCs, that would just be PCs.
Non NPCs.
Yeah, PCs, exactly.
Or just Cs.
there we
is there anything else you'd like us to bring up here?
Or, um,
I think so.
I think the important thing is that people know that Bitcoin
Times is in, uh, is going to be making a strong comeback next year.
Well, I guess depends when this podcast actually goes out.
So it'll probably be this year and you lads are going to be at the
helm with my continued support.
And, uh, now they know the origin story and, uh, you know, they've
got a sense of where it came from and where it's going to go.
So it's, uh, it's interesting times.
Interesting times indeed.
always awesome to talk to you, man.
And, uh, hey, uh, looking forward to seeing you in person next time.
And, uh.
Uh, yeah, continuing to do awesome stuff.
We're definitely following along with the Satlantis stuff, and I'm looking
forward to reading Bushido as well.
I know it's a time commitment, but I definitely want to make it.
I know it's right up my alley, so yeah, man, keep doing what you're
doing and all of these efforts to get a little bit outside the Bitcoin space.
There's a lot of value in that, and I think there's for sure a lot of value
in us doing the same in different ways, though, like we're We're leaning into
the, the things that, that are important to us in the Bitcoin world as well.
But we've also definitely thought about ways of, of getting the, the word out
there in the, in the broader community.
So, I mean, I think keep us posted on, on how that's going.
Maybe there's, uh, maybe there's some people we need to talk to there as well.
Both, both having on our show and, and, and, you know, doing
the pod tour thing as well.
So, yeah.
I think so for sure.
All right, boys.
Hey, it's always been great talking to you, so, uh, take care, and until
next time, Knut, any final words?
Spinoinkel, as usual.
want to leave
anyone with socials or anything, Ale
Nah, it's all good.
I'm an uncle as well, okay?
Yeah, Spinoinkel.
Badoinkle.
Take care, Ale Always, always great chatting to you.
Always.