Welcome to the Bitcoin Infinity show, brought to you by Bitbox, the
Bitcoin advisor, and Shoppingbit.
Check out bitcoininfinity.
com for our books, merch, and all other things Bitcoin Infinity.
LFG.
George, welcome to the Bitcoin Infinity Show, thank you for joining us.
Thank you, Luke.
Thank you, Knut.
Good to have you here, George.
to be here, yeah.
you're here to tell us about the city that I was most surprised by ever.
Like, I've never heard of the city before I went to Bulgaria, like, it's like
two and a half years ago, almost now.
Yeah, time flies.
So Plovdiv, Bulgaria, which was amazing, this rich, You Thousands of years of
history plays with a lot of different eras and different styles of architecture
and stuff, really enjoyed Plovdiv, and uh, you have a football team there.
Yeah, yeah, indeed.
Please give us the story about George and Plovdiv and
Yeah, sure.
Plovdiv.
Sure, sure.
So, um, Plovdiv is, uh, well, I would say it's the oldest living city in
Europe, so continuously inhabited.
Like you say, not many people know it.
I guess, like, we don't have good enough marketing, uh, but, that's probably
part of my job right now, right?
To spread the word about it.
so it's, uh, like the second largest city in the country.
And, uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's just this, uh, it's very, like, I love how
you put it because like, almost nobody has really heard of Plovdiv, right?
Most people, when they hear of Bulgaria, they've probably heard of Sofia at most.
but Sofia is, yeah, it's, it's okay, but Plovdiv is kind of the chill
place, Plovdiv is the, the place that is actually worth visiting, the place
where, which is kind of the most, uh, yeah, people, people just enjoy doing
it, uh, enjoy, enjoy going there.
I was born there, right?
and, uh, grew up there till 18 or so, then, uh, Studied,
lived in Sofia most of the time.
And, um, last year, uh, in kind of summer, I was already kind of deep
into way, way deeper into Bitcoin.
I decided I'm going to go full time into Bitcoin, just commit all
my time in Bitcoin at the time, educating, uh, publishing books
in Bulgarian about Bitcoin, um, creating my own educational platform.
And then I got, uh, Uh, reached out and connected really to the owner of
the football club in the city, which is also the oldest football club in
the country, Botev Plovdiv, um, who was, um, well, he got introduced into
Bitcoin himself and he realized it's going to be a very big, uh, project.
You know, going to play a central role in where the world is going.
What is this the owner of the club?
That's right.
Yeah.
The owner of the club.
and he was like, Hey, like, I think we can do something unique with, with Bitcoin
because, uh, you know, we being, uh, like, like the club is really a company, right?
It's a business on the one hand, but it's a special type of business, right?
Because it's, um, you know, it's not where just you produce
a certain product or service.
It's really a living organism where people are involved into it, you know, for,
for kind of like very emotional reasons.
Like people feel like it's their own and it's not like a small group of people.
It's a very large group of people.
In our case, like we have tens of thousands, arguably like more than a
hundred, 200, 000 like people who care, who watch, you know, who follow the club.
And so on the one hand, like there's many different ways in which we can
look into this, but on the one hand.
It's for me, what really inspired me and what got me like, Oh my God, like,
is this really happening is that we can bring the conversation about Bitcoin
from a completely different angle into society to a group of people who for the
most part would never really They would like this, they would never listen to
podcasts like this, they would never get to any of the kind of places and things
we listen to, watch, consume, right?
and uh, just yesterday it was kind of like we had this conversation, it's
like, people go, You know, uh, people go kind of for bread and circus, right,
yeah, yeah.
for the games.
That's what really football is, right?
It's fun and it's emotion, it's enjoyment, but then we push
them censorship resistance and uh, and, and hard money, right?
And we don't really push it, you know, that's the thing, right?
Because are like consistently, progressively, gradually over time,
introducing it and finding the best way and the most appropriate
way to, um, yeah, plant that seed.
To the minds of the people, into the views of the people and,
and, uh, and so on and so forth.
So, so it's really like, you know, what we're trying to build
is, um, we feel we're in a very privileged position, right?
Uh, because we've been, um, yeah, the first really professional sports club
globally, I would say, to have, uh, crypto Bitcoin, you know, people, departments,
who is actually full time employed to, you know, think of a way to grow the
business, to think of a way to integrate Bitcoin natively, within the various
aspects of, of, of the organization, which obviously initially includes like
accepting payments and so on and so forth.
But, um, but there's so much more you can do exactly with this type of, Like
organization, again, like not, not, not just a business in a traditional sense.
Yeah.
And, uh, won the league, right?
Is that, is that right?
Yeah, man, like it's, uh, yeah, so we, um, when I started last
year, things were super bad.
Like exactly one year ago, I was there for the, for one of the first games.
It was horrible.
Like, I was like, okay, this is a great idea, but if the team is doing so bad
and if, uh, if they keep losing and if the fans keep getting, you know,
being unhappy, Um, it's not gonna go anywhere, but still, I gave it
a, I gave it a go, right, because I was like, okay, I just hope that the
sports side guys are going to do their, their part, and I have my opportunity
here, um, to, to just like push, to educate, to, To do what, what, what
life is giving me an opportunity to do.
And, uh, very fortunately, as we started working, the team started
performing better and better and better.
We got a completely new coach.
We got a new sports director.
We, we had a lot of key staff changes across the organization,
which, Um, relatively quickly started showing results.
So, uh, yeah, like, 10 months later in May, we won the Bulgarian Cup.
Is that the cup or the league?
Like, uh,
it's the cup, it's the cup.
So, so, I was saying, like, we started very bad in the league.
And so, we were doing better and better, but still, like, we
finished 9th in the league out of 16 clubs at the end of the day.
But which was still okay, because, like, when I joined, like, we were, like,
Worried about relegation or something like that?
there.
I mean,
We're complete, uh, like I've tried to take an interest to football,
but like, uh, my ADD just, the brain just wanders away after five minutes
and I can't concentrate anymore.
So I don't
a basketball fan.
Am I now?
Uh, so, uh, what's the difference between the cup and the league?
Let's begin there.
That's, that's how much of a football noob I
So, so pretty much in every country is the same, right?
You have a league or a championship where you have, in our case, 16 teams, and every
team plays twice against every other team.
So home game, away game, and then, you know, you either win three points
when you win, or you lose, or you draw, and you, you, you win one point.
And then, so after you play, after you play, in our case,
this, what is it, games?
You know,
30.
yeah, about 30.
Yeah, right.
You're better than Matt, it's obvious.
So, um, so once you play these 30 games, um, you, um, yeah, like the
team with the most points wins, right?
Whereas, uh, the cup is direct elimination
So quarterfinals, semifinals, all that.
exactly.
So it's the easier way.
So this was the way for us to due to the bad start of the season.
This was the way for us to, to achieve something in this season and to achieve
something important because what the Cubs gives us as an opportunity and gave
us was to play in the European Leagues.
So UEFA Leagues.
And we just did that.
We played six games.
Uh, for the Europe, uh, Europe League and the Europe Conference League.
Okay.
But to, to be in the champions league, that's a totally, you have to, yeah, yeah.
You have to win the league and you have to win all sorts of stuff.
Like how does that work?
yeah.
You have to win the league.
And then in our case, so in every country it's different, but in our
case, we have to win, like we go to qualifications for the Champions League.
So it's like, I mean, three to four games.
And if we win that, we go to the Champions League.
Alright,
That's the current state of affairs, although that can change over the years.
alright, uh, it all makes sense to me now, that's a lie, but anyway.
No, uh, I'll definitely, we'll acknowledge here that I'm more of the, the sports
fan, uh, generally here, and I, I follow football, I like, uh, I like European,
uh, football, uh, well, and obviously I'm using the correct, uh, term despite
my, um, my pseudo American accent, uh.
Yeah, anyway, um, uh, no, it's fantastic to see, and I mean,
yeah, for the non sports fans, uh, listening to this, I get that
Well, I am a sports fan, it's just that Starcraft 2 is my sport, and yeah, yeah,
yeah,
eSports.
yeah, yeah, so I watch, watch Starcraft 2 games.
That's what I do for procrastination sometimes.
valid sports, I'm not going to compare it to other things that aren't
breakdancing?
Is that a valid sport?
Breakdancing is, um, hmm, interesting.
I think anything with points, that judges give points, is kind of not
really a sport, it's an activity.
yeah.
but, yeah, anyway,
thing to do.
is a thing to do, yes, definitely, but back to, back to, um, um, Botev Plod, is
it Botev, Botev, what's, what's, Botev, Botev Plod, yeah, so, so, um, yeah,
yeah, like, the, the, the achievement, winning, winning the cup, I mean, the,
The cups are sort of more difficult.
They're both difficult in their own way, right?
Like, the cup, you lose one game, you're out, basically, right?
But, I mean, the league is like this endurance, uh, achievement, right?
You have to perform well over the course of the whole season.
But the cheat code, so to say, and I probably subconsciously used the other
football team's terminology, who's in the space, Real Bedford, um, The, the idea
right, if, if I'm getting it, is that you guys would, would keep the Bitcoin in the,
in the, the treasury, the, the company, and then over the course of time it's just
gonna do the number go up thing and, and the, the club will have more resources.
Right.
Is that, is that the idea you're thinking with the, the bitcoin strategy?
There's actually many, many things to it.
And this is kind of the most, let's say, vanilla type of approach.
Yeah, like just buy Bitcoin and hold it on the balance sheet,
which is, which is great.
But there's actually so many other things you can do.
And that's where, because if you just do that, frankly, like, I mean, you
don't need me involved, right, much.
I mean, just call Coinbase, whatever, wire the money, crack in and, you know, buy.
but with us it's like, really, uh, we see a huge opportunity to, first of
all, align our brand with the Bitcoin brand, which is a royalty free, uh,
The biggest brand in finance, for sure.
One, uh, like it's going to be the biggest brand in the world for sure at some point.
Right.
So that's, that's one play.
And to do this, it's not enough for you to just buy Bitcoin
and hold it on a balance sheet.
It's what you need to do is proof of work, right?
You need to do things that nobody has ever done.
You need to really kind of be creative.
Uh, and, and, um, to push the boundaries of what anyone
has ever done before, right?
So, so that is, uh, that is my kind of job and it's a lot of, um, a lot of just
like, let's, let's think of what, what new things we can do with Bitcoin and sports
and football that nobody has ever done.
Just because others are focused on the short term things, they're focused
on, You know, hitting those, those quick wins, those quick goals, which
is why, for example, like a lot of the sports and, and that have, you know,
interact, they haven't really interacted outside of Bedford with Bitcoin, right?
It's mostly been crypto because it's just, okay, let's make some quick money.
Um,
usually, it's usually just sponsorships, right?
yeah,
yes.
Um, and for us, because on the one hand, like, we're not
like Manchester United, right?
We're not Chelsea.
So we don't have that much to monetize immediately.
Like we're a large club, but.
You're a large club in a local league, which is, which is different from the,
it's not one of the leagues that is internationally positioned like that.
But, but, I mean, the, the difference between you guys and Bedford that I,
that I think is, is really interesting.
Like, McCormack, what he, Peter McCormack, what he's doing, I mean,
he's, he's taking a club from the bottom and aiming for the top.
But who knows how long that's going to take him to get there, right?
But you guys are already in the top of your league, right?
Like, in the top league.
right, yeah, and also there's, there's different in this,
we're in the top of our league.
My goal, personally, is to go to Champions League, but this is very hard, right?
Because, like, okay, when you start from Peter's ground, like, it's easy,
okay, every year you level up, you level up, or, I mean, I'm not gonna say it's
easy, but it's easier than, uh, than once you're, you know, at our level.
For us, it's important to play currently every year in European leagues like
we've done so far and to every year consistently, like, increase the level
of the sports, level of the business department bit by bit, and, but like
breaking that point where we, you know, win the league, Where we win several
more games and enter the Champions League, that, that's really hard.
I mean, because you're already at that stage where everybody, like,
so many teams are so strong, right?
So it's um, it takes just a lot of ingredients for you to, to,
to hit, uh, in order to win.
But we're gonna get there.
and does the club self custody it's bitcoin?
And if so, is it a something out of 11 multisig, that
sounds like a football thing?
Why so?
Ah, yeah, an 11?
Nah, nah, fuck that.
I mean
Nah, even, even 7 Motosick is a, is a killer, but no.
Um, yeah, I can't really speak too much about this at this point.
Yeah.
Um, but, um, but yeah, I mean,
we do, of course we do self custody.
So that's, that's the approach that we've chosen with kind of a lot of,
um, we've chosen to go really pure, pure Bitcoin in terms of the strategy.
And that's how we set ourselves apart.
That's how we believe we win the long game because for instance,
like we Bitcoin with BTC pay server.
Which in my mind they don't even have competition.
It's the only like, real, solid, autonomous, sovereign
way to accept payments.
And it's also the way which makes sense for like, Frankly, any standard business,
because like, man, we're selling scarves, we're selling, um, membership boat cards,
we're selling jerseys, we're selling basic merch, and if we are to sell it with
basically any other service out there, outside of BTC Pay Server, we have to
basically, uh, indirectly do KYC, right?
Like, we have to go through KYC, we have to go through KYB, which
is ridiculous, um, in my mind.
And so, um, so that's why we're exceptionally thankful to B2C Pay
Server guys, uh, for what they've built.
Uh, it's been like an absolute pleasure to, um, to use their
product, to use their service.
Uh, we have, you know, outside of B2C Pay, we, uh, we are the
first, uh, sports club on Nostr.
Where, uh, we have, uh, actively been posting, exploring, you
know, meeting people here.
Kind of thinking of what we could do from our angle again,
like first, first time on Nostr.
Um, we have partnered with, uh, Aqua, JAN3's Aqua wallet, which
has a, a Botive skin mode now.
So if you go to settings, you can turn Botive mode and then it turns into
the colors of the club and, you know, have the picture of the stadium there.
Um,
I'm using Aqua right now because, uh, uh, usually I like to use Aqua as like a
sort of a middle wallet, uh, uh, because it's still slightly slower than other
lightning wallets because they, they, the, everything actually lives on, on liquid
and then they, they, uh, go out via bolts.
Uh, so it's slightly slower than a faster, um, like, like than other,
um, more direct lightning wallets.
And so usually when I come to a conference, I'm going to
load up a, like a temporary.
I don't know, Blink or something like that, but I forgot to do that, so
I'm just using my Aqua wallet, and you know what, it's been great here,
it's been working, uh, so yeah, we're big fans of Aqua wallet and what
Yeah, and a BTC pay server.
I mean, uh, we can echo everything you said that we, BitcoinInfinity.
com, like, and the store here We just fired up.
Everything is powered by a BTC pay server, and we just love it.
Yes.
So what was your question about, uh, Aqua?
If yours is on BOTEV mode.
Uh, I don't think I've gone into the settings and changed it to Vaudev mode,
I'll have to do that, maybe we'll take
It's dark mode,
but cooler.
Doc dark mode, but cooler.
Okay.
Actually that's a, that's a, that's a good point.
That's a good point.
Yeah.
We'll take a, we'll take a picture after, uh, after the episode and we'll
de proof, proof of bot, uh, bot e mode, and, uh, uh, post that on Nostr.
How does that sound?
Let's go.
Yeah.
Nostr.
Um, is there a connection there between both a plot and Nostr while
you're doing Nostr stuff as well?
Yeah.
Well, look, um, a lot of these things is like, so What Botev Plovdiv stands
for, um, very importantly, so the club was named after Hristo Botev, who's, uh,
like, one of the most Bulgarians, if the most famous Bulgarian revolutionaries,
like, historical figure, uh, he was a poet, he was a revolutionary, he fought
for Bulgaria's freedom back in the day,
Which, which day, which, what day did you
uh, 110, uh, what is it, like, 50 years ago or so?
Yeah.
Mm-Hmm?
Okay.
So, so
before the Commes.
ottoman, uh,
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He, he, he, he fought for the, for the liberation of Bulgaria
from, from the Ottoman Empire.
And a lot of what he stands for is this fight for freedom, his fight for liberty.
Um, and this, this lives until this very day into the identity of the
club and to what we stand for into the songs, into the, into the music.
Um, you know, um, the kind of like what, what our fans also resonate
with, um, and, and what they sing like in many, in many ways.
Right.
So, um, Freedom of speech, freedom of, uh, of like freedom in general is, is
a value that is deeply ingrained into kind of like what the club stands for.
Um, and, uh, you know, that's why I'm into Bitcoin.
That's why I believe.
And that's, that's why I saw this even bigger opportunity.
Oh my God, like, how is this happening?
There's so many, sometimes, you know, some like weird things happen
in life and you have no explanation why and how all these things align.
But, but for me, it's like this club was made really to.
to be aligned with BOTEF and to be, uh, to, to, to be aligned
with Bitcoin and with Nostr.
If I look at all the other clubs in Bulgaria, right, like just in Bulgaria,
none of the others, like, there's no this contextual historical background
that you can make these connections.
But with us, we have it, and what a chance that, like, we have this
owner, and he got, like, introduced to it, and then we got connected.
Like, how the hell does this happen, man?
I don't know,
We like to say this, the surreal doesn't end, you know, and like, uh, my, my whole
story, I've been talking about this, uh, at the, the conference here is like two
years ago was the first time I ever met Bitcoiners here in Baltic Honeybadger.
We, we met for the, for the first time, uh, all three of us, uh, met
for the first time two years ago, I've been in Baltic Honeybadger and it's
like, things, things happen so fast.
Uh, I've, I've, uh, I've thought it was been awesome just following,
uh, what you've been doing with the, the club and the story.
So great to, Great to get to talk about it, but, uh,
Yeah.
No, for, for me, like really the, the most exciting part
is really even coming forward.
So, uh, because, so now it's been, so we, a long, we announced,
uh, publicly that we're doing this, uh, 31st October last year.
So the anniversary of the, of the, uh, Bitcoin White paper,
um, we've built a lot right.
And very, very importantly, I'm super proud, like, I don't know if you saw
this, but like a month ago, we played on European League, the UEFA League with
Bitcoin straight on our jerseys, which was like, like, when I saw this, I'm like,
dude, it's crazy that this is happening.
But, but the best is really yet to come, like, like we like to say.
Um, so I, I think we, we're, we have, um, we have still so much more to do.
So for me, the next big part, which I'm super excited about literally in
the coming month as, uh, as I go back.
So is to finally get some of our.
Players or at least one or two to get to do something publicly about this,
because at the end of the day, that's why for me, the more I do, the more
I, uh, play in this arena, I realized this is really a Trojan horse for us
to bring Bitcoin into the conversation, into the minds, like I said, of people
who otherwise wouldn't and, and our players, you know, especially a few of
them, they're really influencers, right?
Um, a lot of people follow them.
A lot of people respect them.
And, um, and if they do, uh, you know, something meaningful, something cool,
something impactful, this is going to have a huge impact onto our forwards.
This could very well have impact onto, um, other sportsmen, other football
people, other football clubs, right?
Uh, so that's why I'm doing it, right?
Really?
No, this is fantastic, and actually this was exactly where I was hoping to go
next, so thank you for queuing that up.
But, no, no, the game theory of all this, right?
Like, one club getting, Positioning as the, as the Bitcoin club in a league, uh,
really means that eventually all the other clubs are going to need to adopt Bitcoin.
If they're going to be able to compete, because if play playing
out the game theory, number go up, whatever it is, Bitcoin strategy
plays out, you guys are going to be the most financially capable club.
Financially sustainable in not very long, you know, assuming everything plays out
the way we're thinking it will, right?
So, so other, other clubs then would become incentivized to also adopt Bitcoin.
So what, what do you, what do you think about that?
Like you, do you, do you see that, uh, happening as well?
Yeah, I'm not really sure if it would happen to me.
That fast, to be fair.
Like, I think it's inevitable, right, obviously, but I think it, yeah,
like, I think this definitely takes at least three, four years, maybe more.
Um,
That's, that's still pretty fast.
yeah, I guess.
I mean, I mean, like, okay, let me define it better.
It takes three, four years.
So, for other clubs within our league to start doing something like this, uh,
maybe it takes less time for other clubs to realize it, but I think for them to do
it, it also depends on our actions, right?
So because like, we don't have like a treasury of microstrategy or something,
so it's not, and we're not doing like a
you don't?
monthly like leverage on top of leverage on top of another leverage,
you know, uh, we're not in, in Michael's privileged position.
but we can do other cool things, right?
Uh, one of the, um, so this is not yet live and this is not yet happening, but
one of the, like two, two projects, let's say, I'm gonna briefly, like, tease here
that, that I'm working on that I hope to have very large impact is first, uh,
building this, uh, simple tool Uh, called like a Bitcoin, uh, football salary
calculator that, uh, it's like really a DCA tool, but like looking back and like
tailoring it to our niche where I want to, for us to visually and emotionally
Show, um, to players, but also to fans of ours, like what Bitcoin could have
done for their remuneration, if you look one year back in time, two years back
in time, three years back in time, four years back in time, and for them to really
realize, Oh my God, this is a no brainer.
Right?
I want to make this mess.
And this is hard, right?
Um, because like, there's so many tools and like, but I want to be,
because the audience is very wide, very different types of audience.
I want to make this so that you can consume it in like
two, three, four minutes.
And you're like, okay, I need to learn more about this.
This actually is interesting.
There's like, that's so much dense and emotional and compact
information that you're like, Whoa.
Why am I not doing this?
How did I miss this?
What, what, what was the name of that website?
I, I don't know if it's still up, but bitcoin or shit.com
or something like that.
So, so it lists if you bought this item when it came out, an iPhone
five or whatever, uh, and if you had bought b bitcoin instead.com, I think
that that's the, that's the name.
So if you bought, uh, if you bought Bitcoin instead, it shows you how
much, how much more money you'd have now and how many iPhones you
Yeah.
And of course there's many of these tools, obviously like we've all
see them and we all like like them and retweet them and repost them.
And it's all great.
But I think, at least I hope that we can do something impactful with this.
If we really tailor it, compact it to a specific type of niche audience with
a specific message designed for them.
And because this audience is also like.
A type of audience who can also like, um, you know, bring it to other bubbles
that we ourselves are not part of, right?
So that's, for example, one like, uh, one like project I'm very, very excited
about and I hope we can, um, yeah, we'll bring forward relatively soon.
There's a few moving elements, but definitely in the coming
month or two, uh, at most.
And then, uh, and then, you know, speaking of the other clubs, what,
what I want us to do is what we're working is next year, we're targeting
to do, I hope we could do the world's first, uh, Bitcoin, uh, Cup tournament.
Uh, for youth players, 70 year old boys who are, you know, right there before they
sign their first professional contract, start earning money, for them, first of
all, like, it's a Bitcoin football cup, like, it's the first time this, this could
potentially ever happen And then it's, it's a football first tournament, right?
This is the, we want to make it like top quality, like really the
highest quality when it comes to sports, but then you have Bitcoin
involved all over the place, right?
In terms of brand, in terms of rewards, in terms of, um, in terms of like plays, um,
like, like games and, and interactions, activations, uh, throughout, before,
throughout, and after the, And after the event, and for this, I'm targeting
to get really like, like big clubs.
I mean, because it's academies, right?
I mean, I cannot get the Manchester United first team, just maybe we could
get the Manchester United 17 year old team or, you know, another big club.
We get some of these, and then like we get their brands, we get
them on the focus of Bitcoin.
And we drive the conversation faster, you know, not three,
four years from now, but Less
what about, um, like right now there's you and there's, um, you guys and
there's a real bed for it, right?
Those are the two I know of in Europe.
Are you aware of any other clubs that are doing a Bitcoin strategy?
I mean, is this virus spreading?
Like, have you heard anything like,
Um, Oh, there's, uh, there's the Austrian Admira Vakir who
have done some integration.
So it's a second tier, uh, second league, uh, second league, uh, club that have, uh,
that have, uh, you know, they've also had Bitcoin on the, their second team jersey.
And, um, and they, they also accept Bitcoin payments, uh, here and there, but
you know, the thing is, there's some other clubs, um, there's a Miami, um, not Miami,
um, a Hawaiian club that, that is doing, uh, that is doing like their Bitcoin gig,
yeah, there are other, other sports, right, other sports team and sports
teams in other sports that are doing it.
But, but for football specifically,
which ones?
Uh, I'm so bad with sports, but wasn't there like a hockey
team or a basketball team or
I'm not aware of any others, actually.
Yeah, like, uh, there's been some attempts at
it's
an orange colored team or something like
more the individual athletes,
Yeah, yeah, there have been individual
for instance, a
have been individual
player, and there was some American football player.
There's been individual athletes, a lot of them.
There's been, I was asking if you know, but there's been a baseball
club in Australia, the Port Heat.
Uh, who did kind of a Bitcoin strategy.
Uh, but very unfortunately that didn't work out.
They kind of started this at the peak of the last bull cycle.
And, um, and as I understand, uh, there wasn't like a strong alignment between the
owners and the management in terms of like understanding that this is a long game.
So that's why this kind of flopped.
Um, but yeah, like I, I think the reason why it's not happening in more,
unfortunately, and, and, and I see this even, even within our club, uh, you
know, but, but definitely no other clubs because Fiat has permitted sports as well.
Right.
So all the sports club, uh, clubs or the vast majority in football, for sure.
They're like, you know, on the hamster wheel themselves.
They're indebted,
They're indebted.
to an extreme level,
yeah, like, like fighting for every dollar for every income.
So it's, it's hard for you to like, Oh yeah, we're going to have this long term
Bitcoin strategy that's going to take like two, three, four, five years to play out.
And we can benefit a lot from it.
It's very, very hard in, you know, unfortunately for a large organizations,
sports club in particular to To have this realization, to map
this out, to get others on board.
That's why it's not so popular and uh, and that's why I'm grateful and
keep pushing that we have this chance.
I mean, you make a great point here about essentially the, it's the
organizational alignment, right?
Like the, the, these are companies, sports clubs are companies.
They just have this large, the business is involved around getting fans to come
in and consume this sort of marketing.
Product, essentially.
So it's, it's a certain kind of company that's run a certain way, but just
like any other company, you need, you need alignment from the management.
So it's, it's fantastic that, uh, Boteb Plovdiv has, has the, uh, alignment
and is, is putting their, their trust in you to, to move this thing forward.
And I mean, from the, from the perspective of this thing, Playing out, right?
The, the best part that, uh, I think one of the best parts that you, you
mentioned again was the, the influencers.
Like you get, you get some players, there's, there's so many angles
to, to reach people through this.
I think it's, I think it's fantastic.
The, uh, orange pilling a player and then they move to another club, but
they, they, maybe they don't get to get paid in Bitcoin, but maybe they still
put, put their money in, in Bitcoin.
Maybe they even ask their club to, to, uh, pay them in Bitcoin, something like that.
And then the, the Questions start getting, uh, asked and all this.
So what, what is the, the goal in, in five years, for example, where, where do
you see the club in the five year mark?
Oh man.
Yeah, in five years, I think we definitely have to be in Champions League.
Like in my mind, you know, like people around me like, oh, you're too ambitious.
I'm like, man, yeah, like in five years, we definitely have
to be in Champions League.
Uh, that's, that's my personal goal.
On our internal Slack, I have the Champions League icon there.
That's why I'm there, right?
Um, so, uh, it's a lot of hard work.
Like, it's really a lot of hard work.
And it's also not completely dependent on me and my work, to be fair.
Like, because, at all.
I mean, really, like, uh, I mean, at the end of the day, the most important
part is the sports department, right?
Uh, in the club.
Um, so that has to continue going well.
But, but I think We're going in a good direction there too, because we have the,
they're the long term view as well, right.
We have our academy internally, which is, yeah, it's one of the best academies.
It's the best really academy in terms of infrastructure in the country.
That's why we're also can't afford to think of this Bitcoin Cup
tournament, because we have the infrastructure, we have like a
super cool stadium, that's crazy.
If we can, if we can do a final for, for such a tournament there.
Um, so, so we have all the things in place in terms of In terms of assets, I would
say, uh, it's just a lot of moving parts.
a lot of work, consistency, and a bit of luck.
Always it comes, you know, when, when it comes to, when it comes to football and
sports, but, but five years from now, I want us to be in the champions league.
I want us to be the absolute, you know, international professional level, uh,
Bitcoin level, Bitcoin sports club.
and, uh, and I want for this tournament that I start to be like a, like, like
to have the fourth edition by then.
Uh, and, and I want to have clubs, but five years is a lot of time, you
know, as you say, like, I also want to have other clubs following us by then.
I think that's absolutely, absolutely is going to be doable.
What, what are the, what are the tax laws around Bitcoin in Bulgaria?
Like what, are there any issues there?
Or like what, is it easy enough,
It's kind of okay.
Uh, it's kind of okay.
So if you just buy Bitcoin and hold it, like you don't, uh, you don't, uh, incur
taxes, uh, until you sell it, if you accept Bitcoin for payments, um, and if
you don't sell it, you can just, uh, keep it as inventory on your balance sheet.
So again, no,
but there's a capital gains tax or something if you sell it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alright.
10%.
So it's, it's, uh,
Pretty good.
Yeah, I mean, it's not like El Salvador.
Okay.
Uh, but, but it's, uh, it's, it's way better than many other places.
Um, and, uh, yeah, so we've been looking, looking actually, so I was in El Salvador
a couple of months ago, because we've been looking very much to do stuff there.
And we've been, uh, yeah.
Um, because we've been, we've been thinking of what to do
more with Bitcoin, right?
So that's why I said, like, it's not just about buying and accepting Bitcoin.
It's about corporate strategies, about branding strategies,
about how to make money.
Um, it's about education strategies.
It's, there's so much around it.
So in terms of corporate strategy, I was, uh, we're very attracted
by El Salvador, um, and their, uh, capital markets regulation, because
they're basically striving to build capital markets on top of Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is legal tender there.
They have all kinds of, tax incentives for companies to issue debt or to sell equity.
on their capital, on their, um, well, let's say nascent upcoming capital
markets, because it's not like it's, you know, hustling and bustling yet.
Um, but, but they're, they've put a lot of the rails, uh, um, or they're
building a lot of the rails to, um, to really enable the, the, the creation
of Bitcoin based capital markets.
So, um, we've had great talks there.
We have meetings with, uh, um, we have.
Yeah, with the Bitcoin office, right?
Um, so, ideally, like, we're striving to build some connection there and to do
something, interesting and world first again from a corporate perspective.
It's just that, as many things, it's a little harder than you would expect it
to be, or it takes a little more time than, Then you would hope to do it.
But my idea or long term vision, frankly, like what we want to do with
Bitcoin, uh, and with the club is to enable our current fans and global
fans to become co owners of the club.
And that's why, you know, I have big hopes for, uh, for us being able to
do this out of El Salvador and through El Salvador, because this would, like
from a tax perspective, from a branding perspective, from legal security
perspective would be, would be ideal.
It's just that, again, um, my enthusiasm is a little over, uh, ahead of kind of
like how, uh, how, how advanced and set up everything there is, but, uh, but we're,
we're very actively talking to them.
We're working with many parties there, so.
Just maybe we can have big news there too.
Well, no, and, and you actually said something great about global fans.
I think this is a, a fantastic thing, right?
A a again, Bedford is, is similar.
They've, they've got, they've got fans all over the world and, and I think for
you guys it's like who is going to tune into the Bulgarian football league outside
of Bulgaria before, well, not too many people, but now a bunch of Bitcoiners.
If they're into, if they're into football or, or not even,
because this is the funny thing.
There were, there were a lot of people posting about that.
They, they've got, they, they don't usually follow, follow sports at all,
but, but they'll follow the Bitcoin team.
So the, the funny thing is, I think, I think the first, the first club
to adopt Bitcoin in every league is going to get all of these global fans.
And maybe the, maybe the, the second one, the third one, maybe can get
some kind of other support, but it's really the first one in every
really.
That, that
Not
That's that.
I, I completely agree with you there.
It's the, it's the first one
first mover advantage.
mover advantage.
It's gonna get, it is gonna get all of the, all of the Bitcoiners are gonna
now be, be supporting and, uh, uh, yeah.
I mean, have, have you seen, uh, some, some uptick in, uh, kind of international
yeah, yeah.
So, international but also local.
Like, local is very important.
Like, we have, like, so many people in the country who's like, just what
you say, like, I didn't care about sports or football, like, forever, or
at all, ever, but now I follow, now I buy merch, now I come, you know, every
now and then they come to games, so
Well, because there's the bread and circuses thing that you said, it gets
tossed around in the Bitcoin world and also some other places on kind of the
Twitter sphere and whatever, it's like it's a distraction, that sports is
sort of a distraction from clown world basically and it's a way of people to
sort of Uh, forget about what's going on around them, but I think that's
also missing the, the positives, which it, it's a, it's a community builder,
it brings people together, there's a, there's a sense of, of pride in, in
something local succeeding, everyone, everyone's happy, there's, there's real
economic, uh, effects usually when a, when a local sports team wins, and so,
so from, from my perspective, I, I, I think, I think sport is a good thing,
and it's, and it's, it's something that, that people can rally around, and so,
an amazing thing.
Yeah.
And, and so what, what are, what are you looking at locally?
Like what, what do you hope to have the effect, uh, uh, locally in, in piv?
Yeah.
Um, yeah, no, look, uh, for me, sports, like, for us, the, the, the, the,
about Plovdiv, for me, that's what I realized, like, we're kind of very
much into Bitcoin and stuff, obviously, that's our interest, but I think when
we go on a Bitcoin standard, Right.
And, uh, in general, people start feeling wealthier, opposed
to, like, being in the grind.
You're just going to have more time for fun stuff, right?
Like playing football, I mean, or volleyball, or whatever your sport is, or,
like, going and cheering your team, and, uh, and being part of such a community.
And I think that's really what, you know, even Nostr is about.
Like it's, Being part of these communities, because that's
fun, and like, we as humans, at the end of the day, we are
living to be part of communities, right?
And you find your community, you're an active part of it, you contribute
to it, you evolve it, right?
You build it in one way or another.
And unfortunately, you know, today in the fiat world, this is just like A stress
valve in many ways, or like you say, like Brothers and Sisters, whatever.
Um, but, uh, but I think it can be so much more, right?
It is, but it can be so much more for a larger amount of
people and so on and so forth.
uh, but yeah, well, back in Plovdiv, man, like, I have big hopes.
I really have big, big ambitions there.
I want to get Bitcoin into the wallets of, uh, of like tens of thousands of people.
I want people to wake up.
I want people to see.
big is piv?
How many
It's like three, four hundred thousand people.
So it's a lot.
Uh, our stadium is, uh, 21, 000 seats stadium.
I'm kidding.
It's, it's 19.
I wish it was 21.
Yeah.
You'll have to add 2000 more
Maybe, yeah, we'll, we'll think of some additional construction.
the, make the infinity stand when
Right.
But, uh, but yeah, like the setting was super cool.
Like, it's really cool.
Like when it's feel like, man, the atmosphere is amazing.
Um, and so it's, and it's really this community that you can
feel that people are involved.
So it's, it's like consistency and it's social engineering
in one way or another, right?
one of our favorite words,
but in a positive way.
in a positive way, okay.
So it's social engineering for us to ingrain Bitcoin and make it part
of kind of what people see, do, have, own, interact with, right?
So, uh, I think exactly because of this community element, exactly because,
Because, you know, football is a football club and there's this unique
living organism we can, we can create this and, you know, it's fascinating.
I'm so much into this and there's other people who are so much into this.
Oh my god, like, we can make such a big difference.
And, and like in the country.
You know, on a political and economic level, they don't get it.
Like, they don't see it.
They just are in their, you know, like, oh, are we going to accept the euro?
Oh, what's happening with the war?
I'm like, who cares?
Let's build.
Yeah, Bulgaria has its own shitcoin, I almost forgot about that,
but uh, what's it called again?
Kinda.
Um, but not quite, to be fair.
It's, it's a good coin, uh, not for investing, but, but for medium
of exchange is actually decent.
Uh, Lev, Lev
Lev, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah,
But, um, and I recently got educated about this.
So, uh, the lev is pegged to the euro.
So, um, uh, so, so that, that is super cool for, for us, like for
me as a consumer, for businesses, because like you have the fixed rate.
So for trade is, um, It's, it's good, right?
As the world would be in the future.
You have one currency, Bitcoin, like you don't have the
currency exchange risk, right?
We don't have it only with the European Union.
And the good part with this, so, we got, we got hyperinflation back in 1997.
Was really bad.
People lost almost everything, everything, in many cases.
Um, and then we got this so called currency board introduced and the
currency board is like we have the left, but the left has to be
backed up by other currencies.
So it's like a stable coin, kind of like how Tether is backed by, by dollars.
You know, the levy is backed by euro and like a basket of, I think they have
some other currencies and assets, which is cool because the local politicians,
they cannot print, they cannot, you know, so, so it's been, it's been,
I think, way better than Hungary, Sweden, uh, Finland, you have your, oh
but Sweden I've heard it's kind of bad,
It's kinda bad, Norway too, like, both Swedish and Norwegian crown,
and the crown in Czechia, like the Czech Republic, it's also
Yeah.
I mean, they're all going to shit the smaller
So, so for us, it's like, I would say we're better than, than the Corona,
the, and, and all these like local currencies, because we kind of just
are there to the, peg to the Euro.
The local politicians don't have the opportunity to print.
So it's, it's a very good position for us to be.
You, you get the, the negatives of the, the euro.
But, but still, I mean, I mean the, the realistically, the dollar at the Euro
and maybe the, the Chinese currency are the only, are the only ones that are
in the, sort of within our own, within our own lifetimes are, are going to be
not as terribly bad against Bitcoin.
But all the other ones are just, are.
All the other ones are
Yeah, I think it's just a matter of time before both, uh, at least
Sweden, uh, switches to Euro standard.
If not switching to Bitcoin standard happens first, but well,
we'll see, we'll see what happens.
man.
I'm very bearish about the Euro.
yeah, yeah, it's like,
It'll be the second last to fall or third last but but yeah it's it's it's it's not
going to be the the last and so it's yeah.
So that is what it is.
I mean, speaking of Bulgaria and currencies and stuff, like, how
is the rest of, how is Bitcoin adoption in general in Bulgaria?
What's happening in other places?
Like, Plamen opened a bar, I saw, and like, what are the connections?
What's happening?
It's actually quite cool.
I'm, I'm, I'm quite happy with, with how the ecosystem is evolving.
There's, there's Plamen, um, with his whole community, like content creation,
the conferences he's been doing, which has been like a very, I think he's responsible
for like, I don't know, probably like, 000, maybe several 10, 000s of people who
have opened their eyes and even if they're not hard bitcoiners, they now own bitcoin.
Uh, so that's huge.
We have other content creators also who've had an impact.
We have now once or twice per, yeah, about twice per year we have like, uh, A small,
uh, merchant, uh, like, conference events, so for merchants to accept Bitcoin.
we have these people who are active and who are doing things.
Now, actually, yeah, there's something new that's coming up here, uh, literally
in Plovdiv is we have this, um, this, uh, great dudes who have this, um, um, it's
an application for, uh, ordering food, like takeaway and, uh, what is it, like,
like Glovo or
yeah, yeah, like Glovo, um, but, um, but, um, But it's not like this big
corporate thing that, but, but still, it's a very good product and they've
integrated accepting Bitcoin there for quite some time now they've made it
even easier and they've introduced.
So we have like about, I think it's 15 restaurants in Sofia and like
five or so in Plovdiv where through their system, you can order food.
And pay with Bitcoin online, or you can also go in the restaurant and pay in
Bitcoin online, and they just, um, they just won a, uh, grant from, uh, Bitcoin
Beach, uh, and, uh, they're going to use the grant, uh, to, well, the attempt is
really to start like a small circular economy, if you would Um, where, so if you
go, uh, to one of those restaurants and pay with Bitcoin, you're going to get sats
back 10%, and then, um, the restaurant is also going to get 10 percent sats back.
And if you order food, um, through their app, also the driver is
going to get, uh, some sats back.
And, uh, we've just been discussing, because obviously we're partnering
with them, with the football club, so we'll push this out, because some of
the restaurants that are there are our, I mean, basically, like, we have two
restaurants locally that are partners, we got them in, right, obviously, in the
deal, um, So, so that is also like, for me, it's like super cool because now for
so far, the club has been pushing Bitcoin.
Now we have two of our restaurant partners who are themselves like hard Botevists,
Botefans, and like they're popular.
Now they're starting to accept Bitcoin in their, in their two restaurants, right?
And they're going to have their campaigns.
We're going to push them more.
So, um, so I'm really excited about this and fingers crossed this goes well.
We have good metrics because if we have good metrics.
Yeah, we'll look for ways to grow this.
So there's a lot of grassroots things happening, which I love.
On the top, nothing.
It's the way it's supposed to be.
But it's the way it is.
Yeah, it's a better
Yeah it really seems like that you get one or two of these big anchors
like like for example you you guys have had that had that conference for
the last couple of years but now with both of Plavdev now Bulgaria is like
really got a couple of big anchors.
Big relative in relative terms, uh, and all of this other stuff
can, can start coming up around it.
And, uh, love, love to see it.
I mean, he, I mean here, here with Rega, there's Honey Budger has been
going for a really long time, and I, and I even think that they are honest
about, we, we would, we just talked to, to Max, uh, about this, uh, from Defi
and like yeah, there's not much other adoption in, in Lavia and this conference
has been going on for a long time.
Exactly.
And so it's just like, uh, it's, it's, it's great to see, uh, in, in your
case, in Bulgaria's case, that there's, there's more of this, uh, picking up.
So, yeah,
Well, I think it's really, um, in our case, I don't know, like it's
grassroots, like I said, and I really believe grassroots and then
Rio or for the vast majority, Rio adoption comes permissionless life.
It comes like it's not forced.
You know, there is this point where, okay, there's Plamen, like, he got
the inspiration, he makes his content, he does the conferences, right?
Like, our owner, he sees this opportunity for Bitcoin, for the club.
He takes the action, right?
So it's, it's not like, so it's individuals, right?
Taking actions and then, as you have, you know, several of them, maybe others
get inspired or get their ideas going and that's how the magic happens.
And, uh, yeah.
Excited about it.
it's awesome, man.
Great to hear your story.
So, was, uh, was there anything else that you wanted to discuss
or bring up on this topic?
no, I mean, what I would say is absolutely, uh, Please, uh, you know,
Knut, you've been, but please, you're absolutely welcome, Luke, join as
well, like, both of you should come
Absolutely.
Highly recommend it.
I had a great time in Bulgaria, and it's such a fascinating country, it's such a
rich history and such a beautiful place, and the food is great, and it's very
affordable, uh, it's very, yeah, very
like, I have people who come in Plogis specifically to, like, nomads,
spend, like, a week or a month.
So, so please enjoy, visit the game.
Um, come spend in the restaurants where they accept Bitcoin, uh, follow us on
social media for sure, so, X and Nostr,
Yes, all the details, please.
And also like one of the eras, uh, infamous eras of Bulgaria
is the commie era, right?
Where you can see the impact that system had on the country and how horrid it is.
Uh, so it's, it's, uh, that might not be a good pitch for, uh, but, but that's
Let him, let him share his social medias, Knut.
wait, do you have, do you have something
no, no, I think like the, The point I was getting to is, if you get to
Bulgaria, don't only go to Sofia, go around the rest of the country, because
it's not as raped as that town was by, as that city was by communism, you
have all this concrete, yeah, yeah,
yeah, the,
you can really see the impact there.
I'm not, um, yeah, this came out totally wrong, but I'm trying to, I'm
trying to, To hype Bulgaria here, but also there's a historical lesson to
be learned in the country, for sure,
sure.
It's really like, there's so many different things there.
So there's the communist part, there's like fucking amazing nature, there's like
is everything, yeah.
if you're into hiking, there's like, just like from Sofia, what I love
about Sofia, like just last week, twice, end of the day, I'm like
fucked up, like tired of computer.
40 minutes up and I'm up in the mountains, hiking, uh, in like 2000 meters altitude.
Uh, so, so there's all these like super cool things, but on the socials,
uh, so yeah, we're on Twitter.
Uh, we're on Nostr, uh, so Twitter is, um, botif underscore, uh, en,
on Nostr, uh, we are just botif.
Yeah, you can find us.
going to say you're NPUB?
No, no, no,
I'm still learning it, okay?
we'll post, you're still learning, we'll post all the details in the show
Yes.
And feel free to also check out our website.
We have, due to our El Salvadorian, um, kind of project, we already
have a Salvadorian website, which is very easy to remember, botif.
sv.
So you can go there and from there you'll find all the links and information.
Absolutely fantastic.
Great!
Get the inverse of Clown World.
This is a shill.
BitcoinInfinityStore.
com And thank you very much for coming on,
was great having
Great to have you here.
George, thanks so much.
This has been the Bitcoin Infinity Show.
Thank you for listening.