1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,125 If you are the U.S. 2 00:00:01,125 --> 00:00:01,625 government, 3 00:00:01,625 --> 00:00:03,250 you don't go after tether 4 00:00:03,250 --> 00:00:04,750 and try to arrest the team 5 00:00:04,750 --> 00:00:05,416 behind tether 6 00:00:05,416 --> 00:00:06,625 and put them behind bars 7 00:00:06,625 --> 00:00:07,916 for what you alleged money 8 00:00:07,916 --> 00:00:08,375 laundering 9 00:00:08,375 --> 00:00:09,375 or anything like that. 10 00:00:09,375 --> 00:00:10,416 You think the 11 00:00:10,416 --> 00:00:12,416 I love them for doing more 12 00:00:12,416 --> 00:00:13,791 for the benefit of the U.S. 13 00:00:13,791 --> 00:00:14,500 dollar 14 00:00:14,500 --> 00:00:15,208 than the government 15 00:00:15,208 --> 00:00:17,333 has for the last 100 years? 16 00:00:17,333 --> 00:00:18,750 Here's where I like tether 17 00:00:18,750 --> 00:00:20,250 is because you meet people 18 00:00:20,250 --> 00:00:21,375 from Colombia, 19 00:00:21,375 --> 00:00:22,625 meet people from Venezuela, 20 00:00:22,625 --> 00:00:23,916 you meet people from Africa. 21 00:00:23,916 --> 00:00:24,333 They don't 22 00:00:24,333 --> 00:00:26,125 necessarily need Bitcoin. 23 00:00:26,125 --> 00:00:27,416 They're not there necessarily 24 00:00:27,416 --> 00:00:28,625 to generate wealth. 25 00:00:28,625 --> 00:00:29,666 They just want something 26 00:00:29,666 --> 00:00:30,458 more stable 27 00:00:30,458 --> 00:00:31,791 than their own currency. 28 00:00:31,791 --> 00:00:34,041 And the US dollar represents 29 00:00:34,041 --> 00:00:35,333 that very well for them. 30 00:00:35,333 --> 00:00:37,416 99% of the big companies 31 00:00:37,416 --> 00:00:38,833 in Bitcoin colluded 32 00:00:38,833 --> 00:00:40,166 to increase the block size. 33 00:00:40,166 --> 00:00:41,083 And it was never 34 00:00:41,083 --> 00:00:42,000 about the blocksize. 35 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:43,291 It was all about control. 36 00:00:43,291 --> 00:00:44,791 If they had succeeded, 37 00:00:44,791 --> 00:00:46,083 that would have meant that 38 00:00:46,083 --> 00:00:47,250 they were in control 39 00:00:47,250 --> 00:00:48,416 of the development 40 00:00:48,416 --> 00:00:49,166 of the protocol. 41 00:00:49,166 --> 00:00:49,916 But they weren't 42 00:00:49,916 --> 00:00:51,166 because the users were. 43 00:00:55,291 --> 00:00:56,041 Patrick. 44 00:00:56,041 --> 00:00:56,708 Welcome to the 45 00:00:56,708 --> 00:00:57,958 Bitcoin Infinity Show. 46 00:00:57,958 --> 00:00:59,291 Nice to have you here. 47 00:00:59,291 --> 00:00:59,916 I thank you so much 48 00:00:59,916 --> 00:01:00,666 for having me here today. 49 00:01:00,666 --> 00:01:02,375 It's a pleasure to meet. 50 00:01:02,375 --> 00:01:04,208 Yes. 51 00:01:04,208 --> 00:01:05,541 Since this is the first time 52 00:01:05,541 --> 00:01:06,666 we're having you on, 53 00:01:06,666 --> 00:01:07,791 why don't you give, 54 00:01:07,791 --> 00:01:08,583 our listeners 55 00:01:08,583 --> 00:01:10,500 a tldr on who you are 56 00:01:10,500 --> 00:01:11,666 and what you do 57 00:01:11,666 --> 00:01:12,791 and how you found Bitcoin 58 00:01:12,791 --> 00:01:14,958 and all of that? Good stuff. 59 00:01:14,958 --> 00:01:15,541 Oh, I could talk 60 00:01:15,541 --> 00:01:16,791 about that forever. 61 00:01:16,791 --> 00:01:18,000 But just a quick tldr 62 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:19,208 about who I am and what I do. 63 00:01:19,208 --> 00:01:20,875 So my name is Patrick Lowrey. 64 00:01:20,875 --> 00:01:22,458 I'm the CEO of Samara 65 00:01:22,458 --> 00:01:23,791 Asset Group. 66 00:01:23,791 --> 00:01:24,750 Samara Asset Group 67 00:01:24,750 --> 00:01:26,458 is a publicly traded 68 00:01:26,458 --> 00:01:27,208 holding company 69 00:01:27,208 --> 00:01:28,833 based out of Malta, albeit 70 00:01:28,833 --> 00:01:31,000 publicly listed in Germany. 71 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,166 Our primary focus is on 72 00:01:32,166 --> 00:01:33,416 deploying our balance 73 00:01:33,416 --> 00:01:35,208 sheet into funds. 74 00:01:35,208 --> 00:01:36,583 We basically have, 75 00:01:36,583 --> 00:01:37,791 over 20 funds 76 00:01:37,791 --> 00:01:38,958 that we are participants 77 00:01:38,958 --> 00:01:41,375 in as, limited partners. 78 00:01:41,375 --> 00:01:43,000 And we leverage Bitcoin 79 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:44,041 as our primary Treasury 80 00:01:44,041 --> 00:01:45,333 reserve asset. 81 00:01:45,333 --> 00:01:46,000 So any assets 82 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:46,750 that we don't currently 83 00:01:46,750 --> 00:01:47,458 have deployed 84 00:01:47,458 --> 00:01:49,291 to the funds in our platform 85 00:01:49,291 --> 00:01:50,083 is actively 86 00:01:50,083 --> 00:01:51,250 managed in Bitcoin. 87 00:01:53,416 --> 00:01:55,375 Oh, that's 88 00:01:55,375 --> 00:01:57,541 that's a mouthful. 89 00:01:57,541 --> 00:01:58,208 So it is 90 00:01:58,208 --> 00:01:58,833 I could keep going 91 00:01:58,833 --> 00:02:00,166 if you'd like me to. 92 00:02:00,166 --> 00:02:00,625 Yeah. 93 00:02:00,625 --> 00:02:01,208 Please do 94 00:02:01,208 --> 00:02:02,500 please expand a bit on that 95 00:02:02,500 --> 00:02:04,291 and how did this come to be? 96 00:02:04,291 --> 00:02:04,833 Like what? 97 00:02:04,833 --> 00:02:06,000 Where did it start from? 98 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,500 And like what? 99 00:02:07,500 --> 00:02:08,500 What's the 100 00:02:08,500 --> 00:02:10,250 what's the trajectory here? 101 00:02:10,250 --> 00:02:11,250 What is the future 102 00:02:11,250 --> 00:02:12,541 you envision? 103 00:02:12,541 --> 00:02:13,083 Yeah, sure. 104 00:02:13,083 --> 00:02:14,708 So, Samarra massacre 105 00:02:14,708 --> 00:02:16,208 was actually founded, 106 00:02:16,208 --> 00:02:19,208 back in January of 2018, 107 00:02:19,291 --> 00:02:20,583 by German entrepreneur 108 00:02:20,583 --> 00:02:21,583 Christian Ingabire 109 00:02:21,583 --> 00:02:23,500 and Mike Novogratz of Galaxy. 110 00:02:23,500 --> 00:02:23,833 I don't think 111 00:02:23,833 --> 00:02:24,458 I need to explain 112 00:02:24,458 --> 00:02:26,375 to anybody who that is. 113 00:02:26,375 --> 00:02:27,791 Basically, the idea was back 114 00:02:27,791 --> 00:02:28,375 at that time 115 00:02:28,375 --> 00:02:30,041 to create a merchant bank 116 00:02:30,041 --> 00:02:30,750 for all things 117 00:02:30,750 --> 00:02:32,125 crypto in Europe. 118 00:02:32,125 --> 00:02:33,833 And you might remember back 119 00:02:33,833 --> 00:02:35,166 then, Malta 120 00:02:35,166 --> 00:02:36,666 was really pushing this 121 00:02:36,666 --> 00:02:38,125 blockchain island stuff. 122 00:02:38,125 --> 00:02:39,875 They really wanted to have, 123 00:02:39,875 --> 00:02:41,541 this new regulatory framework 124 00:02:41,541 --> 00:02:43,000 to welcome the exchanges, 125 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,791 welcome token issuers, etc., 126 00:02:45,791 --> 00:02:47,416 which actually for a while 127 00:02:47,416 --> 00:02:48,458 was going reasonably 128 00:02:48,458 --> 00:02:49,916 well for the island. 129 00:02:49,916 --> 00:02:50,750 They ended up having 130 00:02:50,750 --> 00:02:51,166 a whole bunch 131 00:02:51,166 --> 00:02:52,041 of the exchanges 132 00:02:52,041 --> 00:02:53,375 like Binance and OKEx 133 00:02:53,375 --> 00:02:54,416 come over 134 00:02:54,416 --> 00:02:55,666 and it started 135 00:02:55,666 --> 00:02:56,041 to push 136 00:02:56,041 --> 00:02:57,125 a little bit of adoption 137 00:02:57,125 --> 00:02:58,166 until basically 138 00:02:58,166 --> 00:02:59,666 the ECB looked at them 139 00:02:59,666 --> 00:03:00,416 and said, well, 140 00:03:00,416 --> 00:03:02,166 the fuck you are right. 141 00:03:02,166 --> 00:03:04,708 You're you're clearly not, 142 00:03:04,708 --> 00:03:06,250 adhering to European 143 00:03:06,250 --> 00:03:07,041 banking laws 144 00:03:07,041 --> 00:03:07,625 by allowing 145 00:03:07,625 --> 00:03:08,916 what you want to have happen, 146 00:03:08,916 --> 00:03:10,625 happen in Malta. 147 00:03:10,625 --> 00:03:12,250 So unfortunately, 148 00:03:12,250 --> 00:03:13,833 they weren't really ever able 149 00:03:13,833 --> 00:03:15,666 to get Cryptology Asset 150 00:03:15,666 --> 00:03:17,083 Group to be the merchant bank 151 00:03:17,083 --> 00:03:18,041 that they were intending 152 00:03:18,041 --> 00:03:19,625 during that period of time. 153 00:03:19,625 --> 00:03:21,458 But cryptology did invest 154 00:03:21,458 --> 00:03:22,833 in a handful of companies 155 00:03:22,833 --> 00:03:23,541 in the bitcoin 156 00:03:23,541 --> 00:03:24,583 and the crypto space that 157 00:03:24,583 --> 00:03:26,583 did phenomenally well. 158 00:03:26,583 --> 00:03:27,208 One of which was 159 00:03:27,208 --> 00:03:27,958 actually the company 160 00:03:27,958 --> 00:03:28,958 I was CEO of 161 00:03:28,958 --> 00:03:29,791 at the time, Deutsche, 162 00:03:29,791 --> 00:03:31,500 a digital assets, 163 00:03:31,500 --> 00:03:33,250 used to be called iconic. 164 00:03:33,250 --> 00:03:33,958 I'm just an expert 165 00:03:33,958 --> 00:03:34,958 when it comes to rebranding, 166 00:03:34,958 --> 00:03:36,458 I suppose. 167 00:03:36,458 --> 00:03:37,416 But iconic was one 168 00:03:37,416 --> 00:03:37,833 of the very 169 00:03:37,833 --> 00:03:39,916 first issuers of Etps 170 00:03:39,916 --> 00:03:40,333 backed 171 00:03:40,333 --> 00:03:41,250 and traded 172 00:03:41,250 --> 00:03:42,125 by Bitcoin 173 00:03:42,125 --> 00:03:42,833 and other crypto 174 00:03:42,833 --> 00:03:44,333 assets in Europe. 175 00:03:44,333 --> 00:03:45,833 We started that back in 2020 176 00:03:45,833 --> 00:03:46,833 or so after many years 177 00:03:46,833 --> 00:03:48,041 of work. 178 00:03:48,041 --> 00:03:48,666 Other companies 179 00:03:48,666 --> 00:03:50,041 that cryptology had invested 180 00:03:50,041 --> 00:03:51,125 in included, 181 00:03:51,125 --> 00:03:51,875 Block.one, 182 00:03:51,875 --> 00:03:53,041 who I probably don't have 183 00:03:53,041 --> 00:03:53,791 to necessarily 184 00:03:53,791 --> 00:03:54,833 introduce to everybody. 185 00:03:54,833 --> 00:03:55,541 They were 186 00:03:55,541 --> 00:03:56,208 the issuers 187 00:03:56,208 --> 00:03:59,000 of the EOS Bitcoin. 188 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:00,125 And they went on to 189 00:04:00,125 --> 00:04:01,500 have a large Bitcoin 190 00:04:01,500 --> 00:04:02,083 balance sheet, 191 00:04:02,083 --> 00:04:03,000 which being a shareholder 192 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:03,458 of block one, 193 00:04:03,458 --> 00:04:04,583 we absolutely loved 194 00:04:04,583 --> 00:04:05,458 because that gave us 195 00:04:05,458 --> 00:04:06,666 indirect exposure 196 00:04:06,666 --> 00:04:09,125 to Bitcoin from day one. 197 00:04:09,125 --> 00:04:10,000 We were also invested 198 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:11,291 in Northern data, 199 00:04:11,291 --> 00:04:12,666 which is a publicly listed 200 00:04:12,666 --> 00:04:14,250 European miner of Bitcoin. 201 00:04:14,250 --> 00:04:15,083 They're one of the largest 202 00:04:15,083 --> 00:04:15,916 in Europe. 203 00:04:15,916 --> 00:04:17,291 And over the last few years 204 00:04:17,291 --> 00:04:18,125 they've been focusing on 205 00:04:18,125 --> 00:04:20,250 HPC and AI. 206 00:04:20,250 --> 00:04:20,791 So we're actually 207 00:04:20,791 --> 00:04:21,416 pretty excited about 208 00:04:21,416 --> 00:04:23,250 how that investment went. 209 00:04:23,250 --> 00:04:24,833 But in 2021, 210 00:04:24,833 --> 00:04:26,125 when I initially stepped in 211 00:04:26,125 --> 00:04:27,333 to some of our asset group 212 00:04:27,333 --> 00:04:29,250 and took over as CEO, 213 00:04:29,250 --> 00:04:30,125 I looked at 214 00:04:30,125 --> 00:04:31,083 or I had a conversation 215 00:04:31,083 --> 00:04:31,958 with our shareholders 216 00:04:31,958 --> 00:04:33,208 and said, look, 217 00:04:33,208 --> 00:04:34,208 we can continue 218 00:04:34,208 --> 00:04:35,625 to use our balance sheet 219 00:04:35,625 --> 00:04:37,291 to invest in early stage 220 00:04:37,291 --> 00:04:39,125 crypto companies as, 221 00:04:39,125 --> 00:04:40,541 cryptology had been doing 222 00:04:40,541 --> 00:04:42,208 at that point in time. 223 00:04:42,208 --> 00:04:43,291 Or I think 224 00:04:43,291 --> 00:04:44,416 it would be much wiser 225 00:04:44,416 --> 00:04:44,791 for us 226 00:04:44,791 --> 00:04:46,166 to use our balance sheet. 227 00:04:46,166 --> 00:04:47,458 And instead of investing 228 00:04:47,458 --> 00:04:49,583 500 K or small checks here 229 00:04:49,583 --> 00:04:51,166 and there into new projects 230 00:04:51,166 --> 00:04:52,083 or into new companies 231 00:04:52,083 --> 00:04:54,000 in the crypto space, rather, 232 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:54,875 I felt it would be 233 00:04:54,875 --> 00:04:55,666 a better strategy 234 00:04:55,666 --> 00:04:56,583 for us to deploy 235 00:04:56,583 --> 00:04:58,500 to asset managers themselves 236 00:04:58,500 --> 00:05:00,666 to actually deploy to funds. 237 00:05:00,666 --> 00:05:01,083 That way, 238 00:05:01,083 --> 00:05:01,500 we wouldn't 239 00:05:01,500 --> 00:05:02,375 have to build out 240 00:05:02,375 --> 00:05:03,916 an army of analysts 241 00:05:03,916 --> 00:05:05,375 and significantly increase 242 00:05:05,375 --> 00:05:06,166 the amount of people 243 00:05:06,166 --> 00:05:07,500 that we're working at Samora 244 00:05:07,500 --> 00:05:09,375 and therefore our overhead. 245 00:05:09,375 --> 00:05:10,000 But rather 246 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:10,958 we could leverage 247 00:05:10,958 --> 00:05:11,916 the network, 248 00:05:11,916 --> 00:05:13,833 leverage the infrastructure 249 00:05:13,833 --> 00:05:14,500 and leverage 250 00:05:14,500 --> 00:05:15,708 the due diligence 251 00:05:15,708 --> 00:05:17,000 that all of the managers 252 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:17,583 that we would be 253 00:05:17,583 --> 00:05:19,208 deploying to, 254 00:05:19,208 --> 00:05:20,125 and our shareholders 255 00:05:20,125 --> 00:05:21,125 would therefore 256 00:05:21,125 --> 00:05:21,541 be able 257 00:05:21,541 --> 00:05:23,125 to participate indirectly, 258 00:05:23,125 --> 00:05:23,875 of course, 259 00:05:23,875 --> 00:05:24,708 in the performance 260 00:05:24,708 --> 00:05:25,500 of the managers 261 00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:26,666 that we would deploy 262 00:05:26,666 --> 00:05:28,083 our balance sheet to. 263 00:05:28,083 --> 00:05:29,166 So since then, 264 00:05:29,166 --> 00:05:30,333 we built up that position 265 00:05:30,333 --> 00:05:31,958 of over 21 limited 266 00:05:31,958 --> 00:05:33,833 partnership stakes and funds. 267 00:05:33,833 --> 00:05:34,583 But in parallel, 268 00:05:34,583 --> 00:05:35,500 because I am, 269 00:05:35,500 --> 00:05:36,041 at the end of the day, 270 00:05:36,041 --> 00:05:37,375 a Bitcoin or myself, 271 00:05:37,375 --> 00:05:38,375 we do use Bitcoin 272 00:05:38,375 --> 00:05:39,500 as our primary treasury 273 00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:40,375 reserve asset. 274 00:05:40,375 --> 00:05:41,916 And at this moment in time, 275 00:05:41,916 --> 00:05:42,666 I think we're sitting on 276 00:05:42,666 --> 00:05:44,916 something like 540 Bitcoin. 277 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:46,666 This recording's 278 00:05:46,666 --> 00:05:48,625 in early February. 279 00:05:48,625 --> 00:05:49,875 And that is, 280 00:05:49,875 --> 00:05:51,750 largely from liquidations 281 00:05:51,750 --> 00:05:52,291 of assets 282 00:05:52,291 --> 00:05:52,791 that we've had 283 00:05:52,791 --> 00:05:54,291 on our balance sheet prior, 284 00:05:54,291 --> 00:05:54,958 as well 285 00:05:54,958 --> 00:05:55,708 as at the end of 286 00:05:55,708 --> 00:05:57,541 last year, 2024. 287 00:05:57,541 --> 00:05:58,208 We became, 288 00:05:58,208 --> 00:06:00,333 at least to my knowledge, 289 00:06:00,333 --> 00:06:01,541 the first issuer 290 00:06:01,541 --> 00:06:03,000 of a bond in Europe 291 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:03,666 from a publicly 292 00:06:03,666 --> 00:06:04,958 traded company, 293 00:06:04,958 --> 00:06:05,541 that was backed 294 00:06:05,541 --> 00:06:06,333 and collateralized 295 00:06:06,333 --> 00:06:07,333 by Bitcoin. 296 00:06:07,333 --> 00:06:08,833 We raised €21 million 297 00:06:08,833 --> 00:06:09,541 in that bonds. 298 00:06:09,541 --> 00:06:10,666 Or what I like to say 299 00:06:10,666 --> 00:06:11,291 is roughly 300 00:06:11,291 --> 00:06:12,541 $21 million, 301 00:06:12,541 --> 00:06:13,083 for obvious 302 00:06:13,083 --> 00:06:14,583 marketing reasons. 303 00:06:14,583 --> 00:06:16,083 We were pretty excited with, 304 00:06:16,083 --> 00:06:17,041 our successful placement 305 00:06:17,041 --> 00:06:19,041 there. 306 00:06:19,041 --> 00:06:21,125 Okay, so so I'm going to have 307 00:06:21,125 --> 00:06:22,541 to, to, 308 00:06:22,541 --> 00:06:23,708 unwrap this a bit 309 00:06:23,708 --> 00:06:25,458 and ask about the, 310 00:06:25,458 --> 00:06:26,291 the ethics 311 00:06:26,291 --> 00:06:27,000 of the whole thing. 312 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:27,958 So like, 313 00:06:27,958 --> 00:06:29,166 what is your like 314 00:06:29,166 --> 00:06:30,583 how has your position 315 00:06:30,583 --> 00:06:31,750 on bitcoins 316 00:06:31,750 --> 00:06:33,000 changed over the years 317 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:34,750 and what is your position now 318 00:06:34,750 --> 00:06:35,500 and what did it 319 00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:38,125 start out like like so yeah. 320 00:06:38,125 --> 00:06:39,791 So from my perspective 321 00:06:39,791 --> 00:06:41,583 I first 322 00:06:41,583 --> 00:06:41,833 I mean, 323 00:06:41,833 --> 00:06:42,291 I remember 324 00:06:42,291 --> 00:06:43,166 the very first time 325 00:06:43,166 --> 00:06:44,625 I heard of Bitcoin, 326 00:06:44,625 --> 00:06:46,500 I was working back at 327 00:06:46,500 --> 00:06:48,000 PwC, PricewaterhouseCoopers. 328 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,208 This was maybe 2011, 2012, 329 00:06:50,208 --> 00:06:51,875 something along those lines. 330 00:06:51,875 --> 00:06:53,041 And I had a friend 331 00:06:53,041 --> 00:06:53,583 that worked 332 00:06:53,583 --> 00:06:54,666 in the tech department 333 00:06:54,666 --> 00:06:55,750 at TWC, 334 00:06:55,750 --> 00:06:56,833 and he basically said, 335 00:06:56,833 --> 00:06:57,708 like, look, I mean, 336 00:06:57,708 --> 00:06:58,541 so I was actually on 337 00:06:58,541 --> 00:06:59,375 top of the world 338 00:06:59,375 --> 00:07:00,000 at that moment 339 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:01,500 because I had gotten 340 00:07:01,500 --> 00:07:02,375 what I thought was 341 00:07:02,375 --> 00:07:04,416 a great Christmas bonus. 342 00:07:04,416 --> 00:07:06,500 I got a whole $500 343 00:07:06,500 --> 00:07:07,291 Christmas bonus. 344 00:07:07,291 --> 00:07:08,708 Check from PwC. 345 00:07:08,708 --> 00:07:10,083 And I was a young kid, too 346 00:07:10,083 --> 00:07:11,166 stupid to know any better, 347 00:07:11,166 --> 00:07:11,916 so I thought I was on 348 00:07:11,916 --> 00:07:13,125 top of the world. 349 00:07:13,125 --> 00:07:14,208 Anyways, my friend 350 00:07:14,208 --> 00:07:15,041 in the tech department 351 00:07:15,041 --> 00:07:16,000 said, hey, you know what? 352 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,000 Take that $500, put it on 353 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:19,500 this thing called Bitcoin. 354 00:07:19,500 --> 00:07:20,750 Thank me later. 355 00:07:20,750 --> 00:07:22,625 So I did, 356 00:07:22,625 --> 00:07:24,291 I took the $500 on bitcoin. 357 00:07:24,291 --> 00:07:24,541 And when, 358 00:07:24,541 --> 00:07:25,416 you know, at about 2 359 00:07:25,416 --> 00:07:26,375 or 3 months later, 360 00:07:26,375 --> 00:07:27,375 that $500 361 00:07:27,375 --> 00:07:28,208 was magically worth 362 00:07:28,208 --> 00:07:29,041 about $100. 363 00:07:29,041 --> 00:07:30,083 So I yelled at my friend 364 00:07:30,083 --> 00:07:31,000 and said, this Bitcoin 365 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:31,375 thing is 366 00:07:31,375 --> 00:07:32,666 the stupidest thing on earth. 367 00:07:32,666 --> 00:07:33,250 I can't believe 368 00:07:33,250 --> 00:07:34,000 I put money on it 369 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:35,416 and that was it. 370 00:07:35,416 --> 00:07:36,708 Now fast forward, 371 00:07:36,708 --> 00:07:37,375 a couple of years. 372 00:07:38,666 --> 00:07:41,416 I get to 2015, 2016, 373 00:07:41,416 --> 00:07:41,833 and I 374 00:07:41,833 --> 00:07:43,291 had left the United States 375 00:07:43,291 --> 00:07:44,291 and was living in Germany 376 00:07:44,291 --> 00:07:45,333 at the time. 377 00:07:45,333 --> 00:07:46,375 I had just completed 378 00:07:46,375 --> 00:07:47,208 my MBA 379 00:07:47,208 --> 00:07:48,625 here, and I actually started 380 00:07:48,625 --> 00:07:49,416 working for the Deutsche, 381 00:07:49,416 --> 00:07:50,291 a business venture 382 00:07:50,291 --> 00:07:51,416 capital team. 383 00:07:51,416 --> 00:07:52,000 Deutsche, a buzz 384 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:53,125 of being the operator 385 00:07:53,125 --> 00:07:54,291 of the Frankfurt stock 386 00:07:54,291 --> 00:07:55,375 market, the largest stock 387 00:07:55,375 --> 00:07:57,333 market in Europe. 388 00:07:57,333 --> 00:07:59,208 Now, 389 00:07:59,208 --> 00:08:00,750 we had five main 390 00:08:00,750 --> 00:08:02,000 areas of focus 391 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:02,625 that we were going 392 00:08:02,625 --> 00:08:03,333 to be investing, 393 00:08:03,333 --> 00:08:04,000 and one of which 394 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:05,625 was blockchain and DLT. 395 00:08:05,625 --> 00:08:07,291 So mind you, this is 2015 396 00:08:07,291 --> 00:08:08,041 and we're looking 397 00:08:08,041 --> 00:08:08,958 at the Ethereum 398 00:08:08,958 --> 00:08:11,250 ICO going, Holy shit, 399 00:08:11,250 --> 00:08:13,333 these ICOs are going 400 00:08:13,333 --> 00:08:15,458 to completely destroy 401 00:08:15,458 --> 00:08:17,916 how capital formation works. 402 00:08:17,916 --> 00:08:19,875 And I actually do still 403 00:08:19,875 --> 00:08:20,625 at my core 404 00:08:20,625 --> 00:08:21,208 believe not 405 00:08:21,208 --> 00:08:22,333 necessarily in ICOs 406 00:08:22,333 --> 00:08:23,666 or certainly not ICOs, 407 00:08:23,666 --> 00:08:23,916 the way 408 00:08:23,916 --> 00:08:24,833 that they ended up going, 409 00:08:24,833 --> 00:08:25,500 because frankly, 410 00:08:25,500 --> 00:08:26,000 they all just 411 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:27,250 ended up becoming 412 00:08:27,250 --> 00:08:29,041 by and large scams. 413 00:08:29,041 --> 00:08:29,833 But I fell in love 414 00:08:29,833 --> 00:08:30,541 with the concept 415 00:08:30,541 --> 00:08:31,708 of tokenization. 416 00:08:31,708 --> 00:08:32,750 And I would say that 417 00:08:32,750 --> 00:08:33,458 that is where 418 00:08:33,458 --> 00:08:33,791 even though 419 00:08:33,791 --> 00:08:35,708 I held Bitcoin before, 420 00:08:35,708 --> 00:08:37,500 the idea that all assets 421 00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:39,250 would inevitably be tokenized 422 00:08:39,250 --> 00:08:41,416 and secured on a blockchain, 423 00:08:41,416 --> 00:08:43,500 that was so self-evident 424 00:08:43,500 --> 00:08:43,833 to me, 425 00:08:43,833 --> 00:08:44,791 that's where my foray 426 00:08:44,791 --> 00:08:46,416 into crypto started. 427 00:08:46,416 --> 00:08:49,166 So I believe that all debts, 428 00:08:49,166 --> 00:08:49,958 all equities, 429 00:08:49,958 --> 00:08:51,083 all parcels of land, 430 00:08:51,083 --> 00:08:52,625 bars of gold, etc. 431 00:08:52,625 --> 00:08:54,333 would be tokenized 432 00:08:54,333 --> 00:08:56,833 and traded on a blockchain. 433 00:08:56,833 --> 00:08:57,666 So that is where 434 00:08:57,666 --> 00:08:58,333 I really started 435 00:08:58,333 --> 00:08:59,166 to get into crypto. 436 00:08:59,166 --> 00:09:01,166 I founded my company iconic. 437 00:09:01,166 --> 00:09:02,375 We began actually 438 00:09:02,375 --> 00:09:04,666 has an investor in ICOs, 439 00:09:04,666 --> 00:09:05,416 and I would be 440 00:09:05,416 --> 00:09:06,000 more than happy 441 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:06,875 to tell you about that 442 00:09:06,875 --> 00:09:07,500 because I think 443 00:09:07,500 --> 00:09:08,458 we were actually doing it 444 00:09:08,458 --> 00:09:10,083 the right way before. 445 00:09:10,083 --> 00:09:10,291 Well, 446 00:09:10,291 --> 00:09:10,708 we ended up 447 00:09:10,708 --> 00:09:12,250 going down the ETP route, 448 00:09:12,250 --> 00:09:13,916 but I mean, 449 00:09:13,916 --> 00:09:15,125 I still hold to my core 450 00:09:15,125 --> 00:09:16,583 that all assets inevitably 451 00:09:16,583 --> 00:09:18,250 will be tokenized. 452 00:09:18,250 --> 00:09:19,083 And with the 453 00:09:19,083 --> 00:09:20,041 advent of Bitcoin 454 00:09:20,041 --> 00:09:21,541 layer tos for me, I'm 455 00:09:21,541 --> 00:09:22,416 really excited to see 456 00:09:22,416 --> 00:09:23,250 what will happen 457 00:09:23,250 --> 00:09:25,333 when all global assets around 458 00:09:25,333 --> 00:09:27,500 the world will be traded on 459 00:09:27,500 --> 00:09:29,375 and secured by Bitcoin. 460 00:09:31,125 --> 00:09:31,541 All right. 461 00:09:31,541 --> 00:09:33,333 This is this is the fun part. 462 00:09:33,333 --> 00:09:34,750 But because this is where 463 00:09:34,750 --> 00:09:36,666 we get into a hard disagree 464 00:09:36,666 --> 00:09:37,625 because I don't believe 465 00:09:37,625 --> 00:09:39,708 in tokenization at all. 466 00:09:39,708 --> 00:09:41,375 And the reason I don't is 467 00:09:41,375 --> 00:09:42,333 that I don't believe 468 00:09:42,333 --> 00:09:42,958 in blockchain 469 00:09:42,958 --> 00:09:44,541 technology at all. 470 00:09:44,541 --> 00:09:45,458 Because I believe 471 00:09:45,458 --> 00:09:48,000 that the blockchain is a, 472 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:49,333 or as I prefer to call it, 473 00:09:49,333 --> 00:09:49,708 the time 474 00:09:49,708 --> 00:09:51,583 chain is a byproduct 475 00:09:51,583 --> 00:09:54,041 of the Bitcoin technology, 476 00:09:54,041 --> 00:09:55,750 which is more, of course, 477 00:09:55,750 --> 00:09:56,458 which is more of 478 00:09:56,458 --> 00:09:57,666 a social agreement 479 00:09:57,666 --> 00:09:59,625 than an actual technology. 480 00:09:59,625 --> 00:10:01,333 So in my mind, it's 481 00:10:01,333 --> 00:10:02,958 a it's a, an agreement 482 00:10:02,958 --> 00:10:04,541 on a fixed set of rules. 483 00:10:04,541 --> 00:10:05,958 And the reason that we agree 484 00:10:05,958 --> 00:10:07,708 on this specific set of rules 485 00:10:07,708 --> 00:10:09,666 is because the rules are more 486 00:10:09,666 --> 00:10:10,541 that they're set up 487 00:10:10,541 --> 00:10:11,541 in such a way 488 00:10:11,541 --> 00:10:12,833 that they're more expensive 489 00:10:12,833 --> 00:10:14,166 to try to break 490 00:10:14,166 --> 00:10:15,833 than to just follow. 491 00:10:15,833 --> 00:10:18,250 And there is no such thing 492 00:10:18,250 --> 00:10:20,083 exists in the crypto sphere 493 00:10:20,083 --> 00:10:22,083 or in the token sphere, 494 00:10:22,083 --> 00:10:23,791 because in the token sphere, 495 00:10:23,791 --> 00:10:25,458 it is 496 00:10:25,458 --> 00:10:27,083 cheaper for an attacker 497 00:10:27,083 --> 00:10:28,000 to try to attack 498 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:28,958 the system than 499 00:10:29,916 --> 00:10:30,125 it's. 500 00:10:30,125 --> 00:10:30,958 Or it's 501 00:10:30,958 --> 00:10:32,500 at least it's not necessarily 502 00:10:32,500 --> 00:10:34,208 more expensive, 503 00:10:34,208 --> 00:10:35,375 which it is in Bitcoin 504 00:10:35,375 --> 00:10:36,416 because in Bitcoin 505 00:10:36,416 --> 00:10:37,375 the users are 506 00:10:37,375 --> 00:10:38,208 actually in charge. 507 00:10:38,208 --> 00:10:39,541 And my conviction 508 00:10:39,541 --> 00:10:41,041 came from the outcome 509 00:10:41,041 --> 00:10:42,250 of the box size wars, 510 00:10:42,250 --> 00:10:44,250 which was like, holy, 511 00:10:44,250 --> 00:10:45,250 holy shit moment. 512 00:10:45,250 --> 00:10:47,125 Because like 99% 513 00:10:47,125 --> 00:10:48,083 of the big companies 514 00:10:48,083 --> 00:10:49,291 in Bitcoin 515 00:10:49,291 --> 00:10:50,375 colluded 516 00:10:50,375 --> 00:10:51,666 to increase the block size. 517 00:10:51,666 --> 00:10:52,583 And it was never 518 00:10:52,583 --> 00:10:53,500 about the blocksize. 519 00:10:53,500 --> 00:10:55,291 It was all about control, 520 00:10:55,291 --> 00:10:57,000 where if they had succeeded, 521 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:58,041 that would have meant 522 00:10:58,041 --> 00:10:59,500 that they were in control 523 00:10:59,500 --> 00:11:00,666 of the development 524 00:11:00,666 --> 00:11:01,958 of the protocol. 525 00:11:01,958 --> 00:11:02,791 But they weren't 526 00:11:02,791 --> 00:11:04,041 because the users were. 527 00:11:04,041 --> 00:11:05,250 So they had to abide to 528 00:11:05,250 --> 00:11:07,500 whatever market, the market, 529 00:11:07,500 --> 00:11:08,333 whatever signal 530 00:11:08,333 --> 00:11:09,333 the market sent to them. 531 00:11:09,333 --> 00:11:10,833 And this market was clear, 532 00:11:10,833 --> 00:11:11,875 we don't want this. 533 00:11:11,875 --> 00:11:13,416 We are going to abandon ship. 534 00:11:13,416 --> 00:11:14,166 If you do this, 535 00:11:14,166 --> 00:11:15,125 and we're going to continue 536 00:11:15,125 --> 00:11:16,000 on our own chain. 537 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,583 So they all had to bow down 538 00:11:18,583 --> 00:11:19,916 to the node runners 539 00:11:19,916 --> 00:11:21,416 and the users of the network, 540 00:11:21,416 --> 00:11:22,166 which means this is 541 00:11:22,166 --> 00:11:23,500 exactly where Ethereum fucked 542 00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:24,625 up, right? 543 00:11:24,625 --> 00:11:25,833 I mean, whoa, whoa, 544 00:11:25,833 --> 00:11:27,000 the trade. All right. 545 00:11:28,208 --> 00:11:28,958 Yes, but but 546 00:11:28,958 --> 00:11:29,791 this is where I differ 547 00:11:29,791 --> 00:11:30,791 because I don't think 548 00:11:30,791 --> 00:11:31,666 it was a fuck up. 549 00:11:31,666 --> 00:11:32,333 I think it was a 550 00:11:32,333 --> 00:11:33,416 deliberate scam. 551 00:11:33,416 --> 00:11:35,625 It had a 70%, 100% mine. 552 00:11:35,625 --> 00:11:36,750 And I believe that 553 00:11:36,750 --> 00:11:37,916 the founders 554 00:11:37,916 --> 00:11:38,958 were they were 555 00:11:38,958 --> 00:11:40,208 they knew about this 556 00:11:40,208 --> 00:11:41,500 all along, 557 00:11:41,500 --> 00:11:43,041 that if you look at Ethereum, 558 00:11:43,041 --> 00:11:43,791 it's like a long, 559 00:11:43,791 --> 00:11:44,875 slow rug pull 560 00:11:44,875 --> 00:11:45,458 where they had 561 00:11:45,458 --> 00:11:46,750 to change the narrative 562 00:11:46,750 --> 00:11:47,833 over and over 563 00:11:47,833 --> 00:11:48,541 and over again 564 00:11:48,541 --> 00:11:49,291 over the years. 565 00:11:49,291 --> 00:11:49,833 Like, first 566 00:11:49,833 --> 00:11:51,375 it was like a world computer 567 00:11:51,375 --> 00:11:52,500 and there was ultrasound 568 00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:52,833 money 569 00:11:52,833 --> 00:11:55,291 and all sorts of bullshit. 570 00:11:55,291 --> 00:11:56,583 And it was like a little 571 00:11:56,583 --> 00:11:57,333 for the internet, 572 00:11:57,333 --> 00:11:57,666 I think, where 573 00:11:57,666 --> 00:11:58,041 they were trying 574 00:11:58,041 --> 00:11:58,791 to pitch at one point, 575 00:11:58,791 --> 00:11:59,375 the bitcoins, 576 00:11:59,375 --> 00:12:00,541 the gold, Ethereum's 577 00:12:00,541 --> 00:12:01,500 the oil for the internet. 578 00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:02,000 Yeah, yeah. 579 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:02,375 And the 580 00:12:02,375 --> 00:12:03,541 Litecoin was the silver 581 00:12:03,541 --> 00:12:04,333 and blah, blah, blah, 582 00:12:04,333 --> 00:12:05,291 all of this. Exactly. 583 00:12:05,291 --> 00:12:06,666 And it's all bullshit. And, 584 00:12:07,708 --> 00:12:10,041 so if you look at 585 00:12:10,041 --> 00:12:10,750 Ethereum 586 00:12:10,750 --> 00:12:12,125 denominated in Bitcoin, 587 00:12:12,125 --> 00:12:13,750 which is the way, by the way, 588 00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:14,833 the only correct way 589 00:12:14,833 --> 00:12:16,625 of denominated anything, 590 00:12:16,625 --> 00:12:17,708 if you're going to 591 00:12:17,708 --> 00:12:18,750 if you're going to have 592 00:12:18,750 --> 00:12:19,458 a measurement 593 00:12:19,458 --> 00:12:21,666 of how your investment 594 00:12:21,666 --> 00:12:23,583 actually performed, 595 00:12:23,583 --> 00:12:24,833 then you can see that, 596 00:12:24,833 --> 00:12:26,541 Ethereum was about twice 597 00:12:26,541 --> 00:12:27,541 as valuable 598 00:12:27,541 --> 00:12:29,041 back in 2017 599 00:12:29,041 --> 00:12:30,166 than in the second bubble 600 00:12:30,166 --> 00:12:31,958 in 2002 and 21. 601 00:12:31,958 --> 00:12:33,416 And now it's just a disaster. 602 00:12:33,416 --> 00:12:34,125 Right. 603 00:12:34,125 --> 00:12:35,750 And and I believe that the 604 00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:37,000 at the core of this 605 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,125 very fundamental problem 606 00:12:39,125 --> 00:12:40,625 is that 607 00:12:40,625 --> 00:12:42,666 the only thing, 608 00:12:42,666 --> 00:12:44,500 quote unquote, digital asset 609 00:12:44,500 --> 00:12:46,625 is, is a, a number 610 00:12:46,625 --> 00:12:47,625 on the internet. 611 00:12:47,625 --> 00:12:49,125 That byte, 612 00:12:49,125 --> 00:12:50,416 for some odd reason, 613 00:12:50,416 --> 00:12:52,375 cannot be copied. 614 00:12:52,375 --> 00:12:54,333 And any copy of that, 615 00:12:54,333 --> 00:12:57,333 any attempt to copy that, 616 00:12:57,375 --> 00:12:58,291 what I prefer 617 00:12:58,291 --> 00:12:59,250 to call a discovery 618 00:12:59,250 --> 00:13:00,333 rather than an invention 619 00:13:00,333 --> 00:13:02,583 just because it's so unique. 620 00:13:02,583 --> 00:13:03,208 Any attempt 621 00:13:03,208 --> 00:13:06,208 to copy that phenomenon is, 622 00:13:06,666 --> 00:13:09,666 inherently doomed to fail. 623 00:13:09,666 --> 00:13:12,083 Or if it succeeds, it it 624 00:13:12,083 --> 00:13:13,000 it would wreck 625 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,791 the entire sphere 626 00:13:14,791 --> 00:13:15,416 like it would 627 00:13:15,416 --> 00:13:16,541 kill Bitcoin to. 628 00:13:16,541 --> 00:13:17,333 If if bitcoin 629 00:13:17,333 --> 00:13:18,541 could be replicated, 630 00:13:18,541 --> 00:13:19,708 it wouldn't work 631 00:13:19,708 --> 00:13:21,041 because the whole 632 00:13:21,041 --> 00:13:22,083 the whole point 633 00:13:22,083 --> 00:13:22,875 is resistance 634 00:13:22,875 --> 00:13:24,166 to replicability. 635 00:13:24,166 --> 00:13:24,958 So like 636 00:13:24,958 --> 00:13:26,083 I'd like to pick your brain 637 00:13:26,083 --> 00:13:26,875 on what you agree 638 00:13:26,875 --> 00:13:27,750 and what you disagree 639 00:13:27,750 --> 00:13:29,666 with with that argument. 640 00:13:29,666 --> 00:13:31,041 So I actually don't disagree 641 00:13:31,041 --> 00:13:31,750 with much of anything 642 00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:33,125 that you said there. 643 00:13:33,125 --> 00:13:34,000 Except for the fact 644 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:34,958 that you don't necessarily 645 00:13:34,958 --> 00:13:37,083 believe in tokenization. 646 00:13:37,083 --> 00:13:38,916 So when I say tokenization, 647 00:13:38,916 --> 00:13:39,375 I don't 648 00:13:39,375 --> 00:13:40,333 necessarily mean 649 00:13:40,333 --> 00:13:41,708 ICO's on Ethereum 650 00:13:41,708 --> 00:13:43,416 or the bullshit NFTs 651 00:13:43,416 --> 00:13:43,916 that we're seeing 652 00:13:43,916 --> 00:13:45,666 launched on Solana 653 00:13:45,666 --> 00:13:46,750 or Pump that fund or 654 00:13:46,750 --> 00:13:48,125 anything along those lines. 655 00:13:49,416 --> 00:13:51,291 Tokenization, I do believe. 656 00:13:51,291 --> 00:13:52,125 So you're going to start 657 00:13:52,125 --> 00:13:52,708 seeing the Deutsche 658 00:13:52,708 --> 00:13:53,583 abuses, the New York 659 00:13:53,583 --> 00:13:54,375 stock exchanges 660 00:13:54,375 --> 00:13:55,750 and the Nasdaq of the world 661 00:13:55,750 --> 00:13:56,625 having blockchain 662 00:13:56,625 --> 00:13:57,666 based exchanges. 663 00:13:57,666 --> 00:13:58,416 Now these are going 664 00:13:58,416 --> 00:13:59,791 to be blockchains 665 00:13:59,791 --> 00:14:01,750 that are permissioned 666 00:14:01,750 --> 00:14:02,125 and they're going 667 00:14:02,125 --> 00:14:02,958 to be blockchains 668 00:14:02,958 --> 00:14:04,375 that are regulated 669 00:14:04,375 --> 00:14:05,041 and governed. 670 00:14:05,041 --> 00:14:06,666 So it's not going to be 671 00:14:06,666 --> 00:14:07,708 a completely open 672 00:14:07,708 --> 00:14:08,500 source blockchain 673 00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:08,791 in the way 674 00:14:08,791 --> 00:14:09,875 that we typically think of 675 00:14:09,875 --> 00:14:10,625 in the bitcoin 676 00:14:10,625 --> 00:14:12,291 in the crypto space. 677 00:14:12,291 --> 00:14:13,583 But I do believe that 678 00:14:13,583 --> 00:14:14,583 having those elements 679 00:14:14,583 --> 00:14:15,166 of assets 680 00:14:15,166 --> 00:14:16,833 traded on a more transparent 681 00:14:16,833 --> 00:14:18,208 ledger system 682 00:14:18,208 --> 00:14:20,375 does make a lot of sense. 683 00:14:20,375 --> 00:14:21,125 So that's where 684 00:14:21,125 --> 00:14:22,625 I think of tokenization 685 00:14:22,625 --> 00:14:23,208 so completely 686 00:14:23,208 --> 00:14:24,166 different than crypto. 687 00:14:24,166 --> 00:14:25,000 How is it 688 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,875 how is a blockchain 689 00:14:26,875 --> 00:14:28,000 more secure 690 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,416 or more transparent 691 00:14:29,416 --> 00:14:31,083 than just, 692 00:14:31,083 --> 00:14:32,250 a spreadsheet 693 00:14:32,250 --> 00:14:33,750 if it's centralized 694 00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:35,666 so it can be changed by, 695 00:14:35,666 --> 00:14:37,000 oh, spreadsheets or easily 696 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:38,125 spreadsheets are very easily 697 00:14:38,125 --> 00:14:39,000 manipulated. Right. 698 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:39,958 But so are blockchain. 699 00:14:39,958 --> 00:14:41,333 So that's my point. 700 00:14:41,333 --> 00:14:42,500 A blockchain that isn't 701 00:14:42,500 --> 00:14:43,541 the Bitcoin time 702 00:14:43,541 --> 00:14:45,375 chain is also trivial 703 00:14:45,375 --> 00:14:46,666 to change and also 704 00:14:46,666 --> 00:14:47,750 erase the history of 705 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,333 because it's not because 706 00:14:50,333 --> 00:14:51,083 it's not governed 707 00:14:51,083 --> 00:14:51,750 by the user. 708 00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:54,000 It's like the whole reason 709 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,500 the time chain works 710 00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:57,458 is because it's being checked 711 00:14:57,458 --> 00:14:58,833 on constantly 712 00:14:58,833 --> 00:15:00,041 by by 713 00:15:00,041 --> 00:15:01,625 the users of the network. 714 00:15:01,625 --> 00:15:03,000 A centralized blockchain 715 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:04,208 wouldn't be that. 716 00:15:04,208 --> 00:15:04,958 There would be nothing 717 00:15:04,958 --> 00:15:05,583 to prove 718 00:15:05,583 --> 00:15:07,208 that it wasn't tampered with. 719 00:15:07,208 --> 00:15:07,416 Well, 720 00:15:07,416 --> 00:15:08,083 but it doesn't have to be 721 00:15:08,083 --> 00:15:08,458 completely 722 00:15:08,458 --> 00:15:09,416 centralized, right? 723 00:15:09,416 --> 00:15:10,291 So effectively, 724 00:15:10,291 --> 00:15:11,125 if you think about 725 00:15:11,125 --> 00:15:12,333 how capital markets work 726 00:15:12,333 --> 00:15:14,000 today, what is the one 727 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,416 centralized agency 728 00:15:16,416 --> 00:15:18,541 that governs ownership 729 00:15:18,541 --> 00:15:20,250 of any individual assets? 730 00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:21,541 Well, it's the CC'd. 731 00:15:21,541 --> 00:15:22,541 That's quite literally why 732 00:15:22,541 --> 00:15:24,666 we call it the centralized, 733 00:15:24,666 --> 00:15:26,916 depository agency right now 734 00:15:26,916 --> 00:15:28,875 that CC'd recognizes 735 00:15:28,875 --> 00:15:29,250 the moment 736 00:15:29,250 --> 00:15:30,166 in time 737 00:15:30,166 --> 00:15:31,291 that assets 738 00:15:31,291 --> 00:15:33,250 theoretically swap hands. 739 00:15:33,250 --> 00:15:34,750 That is the legal moment 740 00:15:34,750 --> 00:15:36,458 when a equity 741 00:15:36,458 --> 00:15:37,708 or a debt or derivative, 742 00:15:37,708 --> 00:15:38,333 whatever it may 743 00:15:38,333 --> 00:15:39,583 be, is recognized 744 00:15:39,583 --> 00:15:41,500 to have exchanged ownerships 745 00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:42,750 hands like in Europe. 746 00:15:42,750 --> 00:15:44,041 The examples would be euro 747 00:15:44,041 --> 00:15:45,958 clear or Euronext right 748 00:15:45,958 --> 00:15:47,291 are clear stream. 749 00:15:47,291 --> 00:15:49,541 Now in the blockchain 750 00:15:49,541 --> 00:15:50,666 we recognize that 751 00:15:50,666 --> 00:15:51,541 as what happens 752 00:15:51,541 --> 00:15:52,500 whenever one asset 753 00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:53,375 moves from one 754 00:15:53,375 --> 00:15:55,791 wallet to another, right. 755 00:15:55,791 --> 00:15:56,958 One is decentralized, 756 00:15:56,958 --> 00:15:58,416 the other one is centralized. 757 00:15:58,416 --> 00:16:00,541 Right now. 758 00:16:00,541 --> 00:16:01,750 Decentralization. 759 00:16:01,750 --> 00:16:04,250 I do believe, has, 760 00:16:04,250 --> 00:16:07,125 unlike genders, a spectrum. 761 00:16:07,125 --> 00:16:09,500 I do think that there is 762 00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:10,833 full decentralization, 763 00:16:10,833 --> 00:16:11,666 which I think Bitcoin 764 00:16:11,666 --> 00:16:12,750 is the absolute perfect 765 00:16:12,750 --> 00:16:13,500 and most closest 766 00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:13,958 that we've ever 767 00:16:13,958 --> 00:16:14,750 gotten to from that, 768 00:16:14,750 --> 00:16:15,458 especially from a 769 00:16:15,458 --> 00:16:16,958 monetary perspective. 770 00:16:16,958 --> 00:16:17,458 And then you have 771 00:16:17,458 --> 00:16:18,500 full centralization 772 00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:19,333 like the CSD, 773 00:16:19,333 --> 00:16:19,750 and then you have 774 00:16:19,750 --> 00:16:20,208 a whole bunch 775 00:16:20,208 --> 00:16:21,000 of other nonsense 776 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:21,375 and different 777 00:16:21,375 --> 00:16:22,500 consensus mechanisms 778 00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:23,583 in the middle. 779 00:16:23,583 --> 00:16:25,500 Now, in a heavily 780 00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:26,250 regulated world 781 00:16:26,250 --> 00:16:27,416 like our financial markets. 782 00:16:27,416 --> 00:16:28,333 And believe me when I say I'm 783 00:16:28,333 --> 00:16:29,125 not advocating 784 00:16:29,125 --> 00:16:29,833 for regulation, 785 00:16:29,833 --> 00:16:30,708 I'm just acknowledging 786 00:16:30,708 --> 00:16:31,583 the realities 787 00:16:31,583 --> 00:16:32,125 of the system 788 00:16:32,125 --> 00:16:32,791 that we live in. 789 00:16:32,791 --> 00:16:33,750 I think all regulation 790 00:16:33,750 --> 00:16:34,875 is bullshit, 791 00:16:34,875 --> 00:16:36,916 but given the construct 792 00:16:36,916 --> 00:16:37,958 and given the reality 793 00:16:37,958 --> 00:16:39,125 that we exist in today 794 00:16:39,125 --> 00:16:39,875 and how those capital 795 00:16:39,875 --> 00:16:41,375 markets operate, 796 00:16:41,375 --> 00:16:42,541 those market participants, 797 00:16:42,541 --> 00:16:43,125 the users 798 00:16:43,125 --> 00:16:45,000 themselves are brokers. 799 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:46,208 They're investment banks. 800 00:16:46,208 --> 00:16:46,875 They're the 801 00:16:46,875 --> 00:16:48,458 exchanges themselves, 802 00:16:48,458 --> 00:16:50,500 their placement agents, 803 00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:51,500 those different types 804 00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:52,416 of users, 805 00:16:52,416 --> 00:16:53,041 and somebody 806 00:16:53,041 --> 00:16:54,333 infinitely more intelligent 807 00:16:54,333 --> 00:16:54,958 than I and will have 808 00:16:54,958 --> 00:16:55,541 to create this 809 00:16:55,541 --> 00:16:56,666 consensus mechanism. 810 00:16:56,666 --> 00:16:58,500 But there is a world 811 00:16:58,500 --> 00:16:59,791 that I see 812 00:16:59,791 --> 00:17:01,416 a permissioned 813 00:17:01,416 --> 00:17:02,791 pseudo decentralized. 814 00:17:02,791 --> 00:17:03,458 I don't say fully 815 00:17:03,458 --> 00:17:04,541 decentralized, obviously, 816 00:17:04,541 --> 00:17:06,875 but pseudo decentralized, 817 00:17:06,875 --> 00:17:07,791 blockchain, 818 00:17:07,791 --> 00:17:08,500 where we can 819 00:17:08,500 --> 00:17:10,166 have tokenization and 820 00:17:10,166 --> 00:17:11,833 issuance of these assets. 821 00:17:13,416 --> 00:17:14,125 That's just at least 822 00:17:14,125 --> 00:17:15,791 what my hope would be. 823 00:17:15,791 --> 00:17:16,416 Well, actually, 824 00:17:16,416 --> 00:17:17,125 let me rephrase that. 825 00:17:17,125 --> 00:17:17,916 My hope would be 826 00:17:17,916 --> 00:17:19,000 is that I would like to see 827 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:19,500 a fully 828 00:17:19,500 --> 00:17:20,791 decentralized marketplace 829 00:17:20,791 --> 00:17:22,166 where any market participant 830 00:17:22,166 --> 00:17:23,500 can transact 831 00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:24,333 in these different types 832 00:17:24,333 --> 00:17:24,958 of assets 833 00:17:24,958 --> 00:17:25,416 on top 834 00:17:25,416 --> 00:17:26,541 of a 835 00:17:26,541 --> 00:17:27,916 completely decentralized, 836 00:17:27,916 --> 00:17:28,750 permissionless 837 00:17:28,750 --> 00:17:31,000 and censorship resistant 838 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:31,750 layer one 839 00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:32,500 which effectively 840 00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:33,250 would be Bitcoin 841 00:17:33,250 --> 00:17:34,500 in this case. 842 00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:35,208 I just don't know 843 00:17:35,208 --> 00:17:35,875 if that's going to be 844 00:17:35,875 --> 00:17:37,208 technologically possible. 845 00:17:37,208 --> 00:17:37,958 I don't know 846 00:17:37,958 --> 00:17:39,708 if the core Bitcoiners 847 00:17:39,708 --> 00:17:41,500 are going to allow 848 00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:43,333 for forks of Bitcoin 849 00:17:43,333 --> 00:17:44,416 to get to that road. 850 00:17:44,416 --> 00:17:44,916 I don't think 851 00:17:44,916 --> 00:17:45,500 that's reasonable 852 00:17:45,500 --> 00:17:47,875 to expect that we will. 853 00:17:47,875 --> 00:17:48,708 Layer twos 854 00:17:48,708 --> 00:17:49,750 might be able to offer 855 00:17:49,750 --> 00:17:50,541 that in the future. 856 00:17:50,541 --> 00:17:51,916 But hey, you're sacrificing 857 00:17:51,916 --> 00:17:53,416 decentralization and security 858 00:17:53,416 --> 00:17:54,375 in any way or two, 859 00:17:54,375 --> 00:17:55,916 which is core to Bitcoin's 860 00:17:55,916 --> 00:17:57,708 value proposition. Right. 861 00:17:57,708 --> 00:17:58,500 So it'll be interesting 862 00:17:58,500 --> 00:18:00,666 to see how that transpires. 863 00:18:00,666 --> 00:18:02,083 As new regulation 864 00:18:02,083 --> 00:18:03,375 and new technology develops 865 00:18:03,375 --> 00:18:05,250 over the coming decades. 866 00:18:05,250 --> 00:18:06,333 Yeah. 867 00:18:06,333 --> 00:18:07,583 I Sam, I agree, 868 00:18:07,583 --> 00:18:08,166 I mean, 869 00:18:08,166 --> 00:18:09,541 I do believe that 870 00:18:09,541 --> 00:18:10,875 there's always a trade off. 871 00:18:10,875 --> 00:18:12,000 I wouldn't necessarily say 872 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,541 that you sacrifice 873 00:18:13,541 --> 00:18:14,500 the central station 874 00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:15,541 if you're running your own 875 00:18:15,541 --> 00:18:16,625 lightning nodes. 876 00:18:16,625 --> 00:18:17,708 And so like, 877 00:18:17,708 --> 00:18:18,250 of course, it's 878 00:18:18,250 --> 00:18:18,875 a layer above, 879 00:18:18,875 --> 00:18:21,833 so it has its own trade offs. 880 00:18:21,833 --> 00:18:23,125 But so lightning is unique 881 00:18:23,125 --> 00:18:23,708 in that regard 882 00:18:23,708 --> 00:18:24,208 that it doesn't 883 00:18:24,208 --> 00:18:25,083 really sacrifice 884 00:18:25,083 --> 00:18:26,166 the decentralization 885 00:18:26,166 --> 00:18:27,041 elements. 886 00:18:27,041 --> 00:18:27,333 Does it 887 00:18:27,333 --> 00:18:29,250 sacrifice security 888 00:18:29,250 --> 00:18:30,333 potentially. 889 00:18:30,333 --> 00:18:30,875 But it doesn't 890 00:18:30,875 --> 00:18:31,625 even really look like 891 00:18:31,625 --> 00:18:32,375 it does as well. 892 00:18:32,375 --> 00:18:33,250 I as I say, 893 00:18:33,250 --> 00:18:33,916 you can't have one 894 00:18:33,916 --> 00:18:34,541 without the other. 895 00:18:34,541 --> 00:18:35,541 And this is 896 00:18:35,541 --> 00:18:36,000 where I have 897 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:36,708 the biggest problem. 898 00:18:36,708 --> 00:18:38,000 You have the trilemma 899 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:38,916 where you have the 900 00:18:38,916 --> 00:18:41,208 centralization security and 901 00:18:42,333 --> 00:18:43,083 what's the third one? 902 00:18:43,083 --> 00:18:43,916 Scalability. 903 00:18:43,916 --> 00:18:45,166 Scalability. Exactly. 904 00:18:45,166 --> 00:18:45,416 Yeah. 905 00:18:45,416 --> 00:18:46,416 So, so 906 00:18:46,416 --> 00:18:47,291 and if you, 907 00:18:47,291 --> 00:18:48,791 if you're sacrifice 908 00:18:48,791 --> 00:18:51,000 like if the, the only thing 909 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,625 that doesn't sacrifice, 910 00:18:52,625 --> 00:18:54,083 decentralization and security 911 00:18:54,083 --> 00:18:55,625 right now is bitcoin 912 00:18:55,625 --> 00:18:56,208 and you have to 913 00:18:56,208 --> 00:18:57,333 sacrifice scalability. 914 00:18:57,333 --> 00:18:58,791 Anyone that the sacrifices 915 00:18:58,791 --> 00:19:00,083 one of the other two 916 00:19:00,083 --> 00:19:01,958 is actually sacrificing both 917 00:19:01,958 --> 00:19:02,666 because if you 918 00:19:02,666 --> 00:19:04,458 sacrifice decentralization 919 00:19:04,458 --> 00:19:05,250 then you can't have 920 00:19:05,250 --> 00:19:06,500 the security in the long run, 921 00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:06,791 because 922 00:19:06,791 --> 00:19:07,875 the decentralization is 923 00:19:07,875 --> 00:19:08,625 what makes 924 00:19:08,625 --> 00:19:10,083 the users be in charge 925 00:19:10,083 --> 00:19:11,916 and not the miners. 926 00:19:11,916 --> 00:19:13,416 And if you sacrifice 927 00:19:13,416 --> 00:19:14,791 security, well, 928 00:19:14,791 --> 00:19:16,208 but you're not decentralized. 929 00:19:16,208 --> 00:19:17,208 That not that well, 930 00:19:17,208 --> 00:19:18,083 you're not secure. 931 00:19:18,083 --> 00:19:20,291 So so so 932 00:19:20,291 --> 00:19:21,541 so so that is the thing. 933 00:19:21,541 --> 00:19:22,625 And like 934 00:19:22,625 --> 00:19:23,416 I view it 935 00:19:23,416 --> 00:19:25,875 as if you got perfect money 936 00:19:25,875 --> 00:19:27,333 or damn near perfect money. 937 00:19:27,333 --> 00:19:27,708 Money 938 00:19:27,708 --> 00:19:28,416 that is good enough 939 00:19:28,416 --> 00:19:29,416 to last forever. 940 00:19:29,416 --> 00:19:31,166 Then no token for anything 941 00:19:31,166 --> 00:19:32,250 else is ever needed, 942 00:19:32,250 --> 00:19:33,583 because this money 943 00:19:33,583 --> 00:19:34,625 can be exchanged 944 00:19:34,625 --> 00:19:35,708 for everything else. 945 00:19:35,708 --> 00:19:37,666 So it is actually 946 00:19:37,666 --> 00:19:39,458 already like, 947 00:19:39,458 --> 00:19:40,000 a part 948 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,541 of every stock in the world, 949 00:19:41,541 --> 00:19:43,291 every every bond, 950 00:19:43,291 --> 00:19:45,000 every equity. 951 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,083 It's a part 952 00:19:46,083 --> 00:19:47,208 of everything else, you know, 953 00:19:47,208 --> 00:19:47,916 everything divided 954 00:19:47,916 --> 00:19:48,708 by 21 million. 955 00:19:48,708 --> 00:19:50,208 This is this idea 956 00:19:50,208 --> 00:19:51,000 that this thing 957 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:51,791 can be exchanged 958 00:19:51,791 --> 00:19:52,916 for everything else. 959 00:19:52,916 --> 00:19:53,541 And I well, 960 00:19:53,541 --> 00:19:53,750 that's 961 00:19:53,750 --> 00:19:54,458 where I do believe 962 00:19:54,458 --> 00:19:55,083 that everything 963 00:19:55,083 --> 00:19:56,166 does inevitably 964 00:19:56,166 --> 00:19:57,875 go to zero against bitcoin. 965 00:19:57,875 --> 00:19:58,416 But yeah. Yeah. 966 00:19:58,416 --> 00:19:59,916 Natural price is infinity 967 00:19:59,916 --> 00:20:00,333 right. 968 00:20:00,333 --> 00:20:02,500 I and I think it's very hard 969 00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:03,375 to make an argument 970 00:20:03,375 --> 00:20:03,916 against that 971 00:20:03,916 --> 00:20:05,375 at this point in time. 972 00:20:05,375 --> 00:20:05,541 Yeah. 973 00:20:05,541 --> 00:20:06,208 With that said 974 00:20:06,208 --> 00:20:07,625 because it is money. 975 00:20:07,625 --> 00:20:08,458 That does mean 976 00:20:08,458 --> 00:20:10,666 fundamentally that I mean, 977 00:20:10,666 --> 00:20:12,291 unless you envision a world 978 00:20:12,291 --> 00:20:13,166 where, let's say 979 00:20:13,166 --> 00:20:14,416 there will be no stocks, 980 00:20:14,416 --> 00:20:15,541 there will be no bonds, 981 00:20:15,541 --> 00:20:16,083 there will be 982 00:20:16,083 --> 00:20:16,833 capital markets. 983 00:20:16,833 --> 00:20:17,541 The way we think of 984 00:20:17,541 --> 00:20:18,125 today, I do 985 00:20:18,125 --> 00:20:19,708 I think that's the end game. 986 00:20:19,708 --> 00:20:20,708 I do think that 987 00:20:20,708 --> 00:20:21,416 these things you're 988 00:20:21,416 --> 00:20:21,958 talking about 989 00:20:21,958 --> 00:20:22,916 might make sense 990 00:20:22,916 --> 00:20:24,666 in a transitionary 991 00:20:24,666 --> 00:20:25,833 world, but, 992 00:20:25,833 --> 00:20:27,875 but only if we 993 00:20:27,875 --> 00:20:28,458 we have to keep 994 00:20:28,458 --> 00:20:28,958 the goal in mind. 995 00:20:28,958 --> 00:20:30,166 Because the other thing 996 00:20:30,166 --> 00:20:31,541 that I'm and sorry 997 00:20:31,541 --> 00:20:33,250 for taking up it like, 998 00:20:33,250 --> 00:20:33,625 oh, please, 999 00:20:33,625 --> 00:20:34,750 I love this conversation 1000 00:20:34,750 --> 00:20:37,000 because because I love this. 1001 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,666 Like trying to connect 1002 00:20:38,666 --> 00:20:39,333 with the framing 1003 00:20:39,333 --> 00:20:41,708 here because, the the, 1004 00:20:43,666 --> 00:20:44,833 where was I here. 1005 00:20:44,833 --> 00:20:46,041 Yeah. Ownership. 1006 00:20:46,041 --> 00:20:47,541 So right now, as you say, 1007 00:20:47,541 --> 00:20:49,541 ownership is like of stocks 1008 00:20:49,541 --> 00:20:50,041 and bonds. 1009 00:20:50,041 --> 00:20:51,791 It's the centralized time 1010 00:20:51,791 --> 00:20:53,750 stamping server, basically. 1011 00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:54,208 The other time 1012 00:20:54,208 --> 00:20:55,416 stamping is super important 1013 00:20:55,416 --> 00:20:56,541 in, in Bitcoin, 1014 00:20:56,541 --> 00:20:57,958 the Satoshi figured out 1015 00:20:57,958 --> 00:20:58,500 that you can't 1016 00:20:58,500 --> 00:20:59,458 have that centralized 1017 00:20:59,458 --> 00:21:00,333 because that allows 1018 00:21:00,333 --> 00:21:01,083 for double spending. 1019 00:21:01,083 --> 00:21:02,041 That's why we need to sync. 1020 00:21:02,041 --> 00:21:03,250 That's why we need this. 1021 00:21:03,250 --> 00:21:06,000 So in my in my view, 1022 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:06,583 the decent 1023 00:21:06,583 --> 00:21:09,583 realization in Bitcoin is a, 1024 00:21:09,791 --> 00:21:11,166 unfortunate means 1025 00:21:11,166 --> 00:21:13,125 to a much greater end, 1026 00:21:13,125 --> 00:21:15,666 which is, copyable number 1027 00:21:15,666 --> 00:21:17,500 or absolute scarcity. 1028 00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:18,291 Without that, 1029 00:21:18,291 --> 00:21:18,958 you cannot have 1030 00:21:18,958 --> 00:21:20,166 the 21 million. 1031 00:21:20,166 --> 00:21:22,000 It is absolutely dependent 1032 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,208 on its users 1033 00:21:23,208 --> 00:21:24,250 being vigilant enough 1034 00:21:24,250 --> 00:21:25,083 to check on that 1035 00:21:25,083 --> 00:21:26,041 at all times. 1036 00:21:26,041 --> 00:21:26,708 Like otherwise 1037 00:21:26,708 --> 00:21:27,750 that doesn't work. 1038 00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:28,458 So that's why 1039 00:21:28,458 --> 00:21:29,541 the digital energy 1040 00:21:29,541 --> 00:21:31,166 narrative is it's it's 1041 00:21:31,166 --> 00:21:32,166 slightly off 1042 00:21:32,166 --> 00:21:32,916 because without 1043 00:21:32,916 --> 00:21:34,083 the human beings, it would 1044 00:21:34,083 --> 00:21:35,125 there would be nothing. 1045 00:21:35,125 --> 00:21:36,250 There would just be a giant 1046 00:21:36,250 --> 00:21:36,875 nothing burger. 1047 00:21:38,166 --> 00:21:39,791 So ownership 1048 00:21:39,791 --> 00:21:42,666 is a legal, 1049 00:21:42,666 --> 00:21:43,375 relationship 1050 00:21:43,375 --> 00:21:45,500 between you and a thing. 1051 00:21:45,500 --> 00:21:47,000 That's that's what ownership. 1052 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:47,833 It's 1053 00:21:47,833 --> 00:21:49,833 possession is a layer deeper 1054 00:21:49,833 --> 00:21:51,291 because possession is 1055 00:21:51,291 --> 00:21:52,333 you actually 1056 00:21:52,333 --> 00:21:53,833 having access to the thing 1057 00:21:53,833 --> 00:21:55,208 and being able to defend it. 1058 00:21:55,208 --> 00:21:56,250 So, yeah, 1059 00:21:56,250 --> 00:21:58,083 I can steal your car 1060 00:21:58,083 --> 00:21:58,791 and then I'm in 1061 00:21:58,791 --> 00:21:59,541 possession of it. 1062 00:21:59,541 --> 00:22:01,083 But you are the legal owner 1063 00:22:01,083 --> 00:22:02,125 and I can just hope 1064 00:22:02,125 --> 00:22:02,583 that there's 1065 00:22:02,583 --> 00:22:03,541 a police force around 1066 00:22:03,541 --> 00:22:04,791 trying to give us 1067 00:22:04,791 --> 00:22:05,166 what they say. 1068 00:22:05,166 --> 00:22:06,291 Possession is 9/10 1069 00:22:06,291 --> 00:22:07,375 of the law. Right. 1070 00:22:07,375 --> 00:22:10,041 But yeah, exactly. 1071 00:22:10,041 --> 00:22:11,041 But the thing is, 1072 00:22:11,041 --> 00:22:12,583 with Bitcoin 1073 00:22:12,583 --> 00:22:13,833 you cannot own it 1074 00:22:13,833 --> 00:22:14,708 and you cannot 1075 00:22:14,708 --> 00:22:16,666 even possess it. Yeah. 1076 00:22:16,666 --> 00:22:18,000 The only thing you can do 1077 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:18,708 is hope 1078 00:22:18,708 --> 00:22:20,583 that no one else has access 1079 00:22:20,583 --> 00:22:22,166 to the same key as you do. 1080 00:22:22,166 --> 00:22:23,333 So everything in Bitcoin 1081 00:22:23,333 --> 00:22:24,625 is probabilistic, 1082 00:22:24,625 --> 00:22:26,750 and the only reason you say 1083 00:22:26,750 --> 00:22:28,000 that you own it 1084 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,083 is because you find it 1085 00:22:30,083 --> 00:22:30,916 very unlikely 1086 00:22:30,916 --> 00:22:31,666 that someone else 1087 00:22:31,666 --> 00:22:32,875 holds the keys. 1088 00:22:32,875 --> 00:22:33,708 And the only 1089 00:22:33,708 --> 00:22:35,208 reason that you say that 1090 00:22:35,208 --> 00:22:36,291 there will only ever be 1091 00:22:36,291 --> 00:22:37,208 21 million 1092 00:22:37,208 --> 00:22:38,333 is because you find it 1093 00:22:38,333 --> 00:22:39,333 very improbable 1094 00:22:39,333 --> 00:22:40,625 that everyone on earth 1095 00:22:40,625 --> 00:22:41,208 would agree 1096 00:22:41,208 --> 00:22:42,541 to change that number 1097 00:22:42,541 --> 00:22:43,791 at some point in time 1098 00:22:43,791 --> 00:22:44,916 like this. 1099 00:22:44,916 --> 00:22:46,666 But at the end of the day, 1100 00:22:46,666 --> 00:22:47,750 these are just numbers 1101 00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:49,250 and probabilities. 1102 00:22:49,250 --> 00:22:50,250 It's yeah, 1103 00:22:50,250 --> 00:22:52,083 this is like an abstraction, 1104 00:22:52,083 --> 00:22:53,708 like a very abstract 1105 00:22:53,708 --> 00:22:55,666 thought trying to bridge the 1106 00:22:55,666 --> 00:22:57,083 the subjective world 1107 00:22:57,083 --> 00:22:58,666 with the objective reality. 1108 00:22:58,666 --> 00:23:00,125 Like that's what it is. 1109 00:23:00,125 --> 00:23:01,958 And we've finally 1110 00:23:01,958 --> 00:23:03,625 figured it out in that sense. 1111 00:23:05,250 --> 00:23:06,666 I don't know if I can explain 1112 00:23:06,666 --> 00:23:07,291 it better than that, 1113 00:23:07,291 --> 00:23:08,375 but this is why 1114 00:23:08,375 --> 00:23:08,583 I mean, 1115 00:23:08,583 --> 00:23:09,083 I absolutely 1116 00:23:09,083 --> 00:23:10,625 love the concept, but, 1117 00:23:10,625 --> 00:23:12,166 when you say tokenization 1118 00:23:12,166 --> 00:23:13,708 and owning this on 1119 00:23:13,708 --> 00:23:15,458 a blockchain here, 1120 00:23:15,458 --> 00:23:17,333 this and that, to me, 1121 00:23:17,333 --> 00:23:18,791 these are all mirages. 1122 00:23:18,791 --> 00:23:21,041 And and there are, 1123 00:23:21,041 --> 00:23:22,833 at best, prolonging 1124 00:23:22,833 --> 00:23:23,708 the system 1125 00:23:23,708 --> 00:23:25,000 we're living in now 1126 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,041 and not necessarily 1127 00:23:26,041 --> 00:23:27,416 helping hyper 1128 00:23:27,416 --> 00:23:28,208 bitcoin ization 1129 00:23:28,208 --> 00:23:29,166 happen faster, 1130 00:23:29,166 --> 00:23:29,791 which I think 1131 00:23:29,791 --> 00:23:31,291 should always be the goal. 1132 00:23:31,291 --> 00:23:31,791 Hello there, 1133 00:23:31,791 --> 00:23:32,666 fellow Bitcoiners. 1134 00:23:32,666 --> 00:23:33,958 Take your coins off 1135 00:23:33,958 --> 00:23:35,541 the exchange right now. 1136 00:23:35,541 --> 00:23:36,250 You need to take 1137 00:23:36,250 --> 00:23:37,750 self-custody of your coins. 1138 00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:38,666 Now, how do you do that? 1139 00:23:38,666 --> 00:23:39,208 First of all, 1140 00:23:39,208 --> 00:23:40,791 you need a good hardware 1141 00:23:40,791 --> 00:23:41,125 wallet. 1142 00:23:41,125 --> 00:23:42,333 And I would recommend 1143 00:23:42,333 --> 00:23:43,458 the beatbox. 1144 00:23:43,458 --> 00:23:44,666 So go to beatbox 1145 00:23:44,666 --> 00:23:46,500 Dot Swiss Slash Infinity 1146 00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:47,416 and get your beef box 1147 00:23:47,416 --> 00:23:48,583 now with a discount. 1148 00:23:48,583 --> 00:23:50,041 Also, you need somewhere 1149 00:23:50,041 --> 00:23:51,625 to store your seed phrase. 1150 00:23:51,625 --> 00:23:52,916 So why not get one of those 1151 00:23:52,916 --> 00:23:54,291 wonderful steel seed 1152 00:23:54,291 --> 00:23:56,041 plate storage thingies 1153 00:23:56,041 --> 00:23:57,750 from Stamps.com 1154 00:23:57,750 --> 00:23:58,708 slash infinity 1155 00:23:58,708 --> 00:23:59,875 and you can get the 1156 00:23:59,875 --> 00:24:00,750 everything divided 1157 00:24:00,750 --> 00:24:01,958 seed plate. It's beautiful. 1158 00:24:01,958 --> 00:24:03,625 Also, if you're advanced 1159 00:24:03,625 --> 00:24:05,750 and if you want to start 1160 00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:06,000 with the 1161 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,333 generational wealth thing, 1162 00:24:07,333 --> 00:24:08,791 which is a fun hobby I have, 1163 00:24:08,791 --> 00:24:09,541 you can go to 1164 00:24:09,541 --> 00:24:10,625 the Bitcoin Advisor 1165 00:24:10,625 --> 00:24:12,208 group of lovely fellows 1166 00:24:12,208 --> 00:24:12,750 from Down 1167 00:24:12,750 --> 00:24:13,416 Under that 1168 00:24:13,416 --> 00:24:14,125 can help you 1169 00:24:14,125 --> 00:24:15,375 store your Bitcoin 1170 00:24:15,375 --> 00:24:16,625 for a long time 1171 00:24:16,625 --> 00:24:18,291 using Multi-sig solutions. 1172 00:24:18,291 --> 00:24:20,125 So check out pip box, 1173 00:24:20,125 --> 00:24:20,875 Stamp Seed 1174 00:24:20,875 --> 00:24:22,541 and the Bitcoin Advisor 1175 00:24:22,541 --> 00:24:24,208 or Chief White. 1176 00:24:25,208 --> 00:24:26,083 Back to the show. 1177 00:24:26,083 --> 00:24:27,041 So let me ask you this. 1178 00:24:27,041 --> 00:24:28,291 What does 1179 00:24:28,291 --> 00:24:29,833 what does that to you. 1180 00:24:29,833 --> 00:24:30,250 Hyper 1181 00:24:30,250 --> 00:24:30,791 bitcoin is 1182 00:24:30,791 --> 00:24:31,666 Asian look like 1183 00:24:31,666 --> 00:24:32,500 because it probably doesn't 1184 00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:33,500 look like Michael 1185 00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:35,041 Saylor buying as much bitcoin 1186 00:24:35,041 --> 00:24:37,166 as humanly possible. Right? 1187 00:24:37,166 --> 00:24:37,708 Absolutely. 1188 00:24:37,708 --> 00:24:39,166 It doesn't look like 1189 00:24:39,166 --> 00:24:41,375 my samsara asset group using 1190 00:24:41,375 --> 00:24:41,625 I mean, 1191 00:24:41,625 --> 00:24:42,291 we try to stack 1192 00:24:42,291 --> 00:24:43,416 as much bitcoin as we can. 1193 00:24:43,416 --> 00:24:44,375 Obviously just on that 1194 00:24:44,375 --> 00:24:45,000 and I salute 1195 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:46,291 your shareholders. 1196 00:24:46,291 --> 00:24:47,375 But at the end of the day 1197 00:24:47,375 --> 00:24:48,000 we use Bitcoin 1198 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:48,625 as our Treasury 1199 00:24:48,625 --> 00:24:50,041 reserve asset. 1200 00:24:50,041 --> 00:24:52,750 Do you own your own keys. 1201 00:24:52,750 --> 00:24:53,166 Yes. 1202 00:24:53,166 --> 00:24:54,333 So we do hold our own keys 1203 00:24:54,333 --> 00:24:55,250 except for the assets 1204 00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:55,833 that we deploy 1205 00:24:55,833 --> 00:24:57,250 into our managers. 1206 00:24:57,250 --> 00:24:58,416 We do have a couple of funds 1207 00:24:58,416 --> 00:24:59,291 that were invested in 1208 00:24:59,291 --> 00:25:00,458 that are denominated 1209 00:25:00,458 --> 00:25:01,750 in Bitcoin. 1210 00:25:01,750 --> 00:25:02,833 Those managers themselves, 1211 00:25:02,833 --> 00:25:03,875 of course, hold their keys. 1212 00:25:03,875 --> 00:25:04,541 But that's just the way 1213 00:25:04,541 --> 00:25:05,750 that we use bitcoin 1214 00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:06,875 to compound Bitcoin. 1215 00:25:06,875 --> 00:25:07,958 We earn bitcoin in 1216 00:25:07,958 --> 00:25:09,458 Bitcoin right. 1217 00:25:09,458 --> 00:25:10,291 All right. 1218 00:25:10,291 --> 00:25:10,958 But outside of that 1219 00:25:10,958 --> 00:25:12,708 we do have our own keys. 1220 00:25:12,708 --> 00:25:14,125 We also do custody 1221 00:25:14,125 --> 00:25:15,083 with other providers 1222 00:25:15,083 --> 00:25:15,541 just because 1223 00:25:15,541 --> 00:25:16,833 we're a regulated company. 1224 00:25:16,833 --> 00:25:17,875 So we do have to have 1225 00:25:17,875 --> 00:25:18,541 a certain element 1226 00:25:18,541 --> 00:25:19,250 of our assets 1227 00:25:19,250 --> 00:25:21,083 deposited in custodians 1228 00:25:21,083 --> 00:25:22,000 just because, hey, 1229 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:22,750 it's not your keys, 1230 00:25:22,750 --> 00:25:24,041 not your crypto. 1231 00:25:24,041 --> 00:25:25,083 Like I always tell everybody, 1232 00:25:25,083 --> 00:25:25,416 no, no, no, 1233 00:25:25,416 --> 00:25:26,708 I would say not your keys, 1234 00:25:26,708 --> 00:25:27,416 not your coins. 1235 00:25:27,416 --> 00:25:28,333 If it's crypto, it's 1236 00:25:28,333 --> 00:25:29,458 not yours at all. 1237 00:25:29,458 --> 00:25:32,458 But but, that's true too. 1238 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,208 But if if you, So, so 1239 00:25:35,208 --> 00:25:36,833 if I ask you straight up, 1240 00:25:36,833 --> 00:25:37,875 how many of these 1241 00:25:37,875 --> 00:25:39,708 what was it, 560 bitcoins. 1242 00:25:39,708 --> 00:25:42,333 How many of those? 540. 540. 1243 00:25:42,333 --> 00:25:43,208 How how 1244 00:25:43,208 --> 00:25:44,750 many of those percentage 1245 00:25:44,750 --> 00:25:45,250 or whatever 1246 00:25:45,250 --> 00:25:47,125 you want to say, like, 1247 00:25:47,125 --> 00:25:47,916 are held 1248 00:25:47,916 --> 00:25:49,291 in actual self-custody 1249 00:25:49,291 --> 00:25:50,500 and how many are outsourced 1250 00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:51,458 to like Coinbase 1251 00:25:51,458 --> 00:25:52,791 or something? 1252 00:25:52,791 --> 00:25:53,625 So we don't have any big 1253 00:25:53,625 --> 00:25:55,208 thing on a Coinbase. 1254 00:25:55,208 --> 00:25:57,333 We would we use BitGo. 1255 00:25:57,333 --> 00:25:58,583 Largely that is what is, 1256 00:25:59,541 --> 00:26:00,625 our asset manager some 1257 00:26:00,625 --> 00:26:01,166 our alpha. 1258 00:26:01,166 --> 00:26:02,083 They deploy through 1259 00:26:02,083 --> 00:26:03,000 different strategies 1260 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,833 on Bitcoin predominantly. 1261 00:26:04,833 --> 00:26:05,708 We do have one 1262 00:26:05,708 --> 00:26:06,625 banking partner 1263 00:26:06,625 --> 00:26:07,208 in Europe 1264 00:26:07,208 --> 00:26:08,166 that we have 100 1265 00:26:08,166 --> 00:26:09,791 Bitcoin deposited at. 1266 00:26:09,791 --> 00:26:11,750 And we use that as collateral 1267 00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:12,458 for leverage 1268 00:26:12,458 --> 00:26:13,208 for just ongoing 1269 00:26:13,208 --> 00:26:14,958 operational expenses. 1270 00:26:14,958 --> 00:26:15,666 We get bank 1271 00:26:15,666 --> 00:26:16,416 we get bank loans 1272 00:26:16,416 --> 00:26:17,666 against our bitcoin. 1273 00:26:17,666 --> 00:26:18,291 So naturally 1274 00:26:18,291 --> 00:26:20,250 the collateral is posted. 1275 00:26:20,250 --> 00:26:22,750 And then we have about 150 1276 00:26:22,750 --> 00:26:23,791 or so bitcoin 1277 00:26:23,791 --> 00:26:25,416 in Self-custody. 1278 00:26:25,416 --> 00:26:26,041 So then we have a 1279 00:26:26,041 --> 00:26:27,583 mechanism of 1280 00:26:27,583 --> 00:26:28,791 about 25 1281 00:26:28,791 --> 00:26:30,875 ish percent, 20, 25%. 1282 00:26:30,875 --> 00:26:31,666 Okay. 1283 00:26:31,666 --> 00:26:33,541 Okay. Interesting. 1284 00:26:33,541 --> 00:26:34,166 Yeah. 1285 00:26:34,166 --> 00:26:36,000 Like I said, we 1286 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:36,833 we put a good amount 1287 00:26:36,833 --> 00:26:39,000 of our bitcoin to work. 1288 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:40,375 I mean, these are Bitcoin 1289 00:26:40,375 --> 00:26:41,458 denominated funds. 1290 00:26:41,458 --> 00:26:42,458 Therefore they capture 1291 00:26:42,458 --> 00:26:44,166 all of the beta of bitcoin 1292 00:26:44,166 --> 00:26:45,458 relative to fiat. 1293 00:26:45,458 --> 00:26:46,666 But they earn bitcoin 1294 00:26:46,666 --> 00:26:48,000 on bitcoin in the strategy. 1295 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,041 So we always want to 1296 00:26:50,041 --> 00:26:51,375 import bitcoin right. 1297 00:26:51,375 --> 00:26:52,000 And then the other 1298 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:52,666 is leverage 1299 00:26:52,666 --> 00:26:54,541 we use for operations. 1300 00:26:54,541 --> 00:26:55,625 So again 1301 00:26:55,625 --> 00:26:56,750 putting Bitcoin to work 1302 00:26:56,750 --> 00:26:58,625 as an actual treasury asset 1303 00:26:58,625 --> 00:26:59,333 rather than what 1304 00:26:59,333 --> 00:27:00,000 Saylor's doing, 1305 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:00,916 which is just trying to buy 1306 00:27:00,916 --> 00:27:01,625 as much Bitcoin 1307 00:27:01,625 --> 00:27:02,500 as humanly possible 1308 00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:04,166 and let it sit at Coinbase. 1309 00:27:04,166 --> 00:27:05,250 So let me ask you 1310 00:27:05,250 --> 00:27:06,875 a personal question. Sure. 1311 00:27:06,875 --> 00:27:07,375 If you 1312 00:27:07,375 --> 00:27:08,041 if you had 1313 00:27:08,041 --> 00:27:09,333 insider information 1314 00:27:09,333 --> 00:27:10,625 to some new innovation 1315 00:27:10,625 --> 00:27:12,083 on Ethereum 1316 00:27:12,083 --> 00:27:13,208 and you knew that 1317 00:27:13,208 --> 00:27:14,666 Ethereum was going to go up 1318 00:27:14,666 --> 00:27:16,000 next week, 1319 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,833 would you sell Bitcoin 1320 00:27:17,833 --> 00:27:18,625 to buy US area 1321 00:27:18,625 --> 00:27:19,583 and buy Bitcoin back 1322 00:27:19,583 --> 00:27:20,166 after that 1323 00:27:20,166 --> 00:27:22,208 like without knowledge? 1324 00:27:22,208 --> 00:27:22,708 Absolutely. 1325 00:27:22,708 --> 00:27:23,791 So we don't have a theorem 1326 00:27:23,791 --> 00:27:24,375 or exposure 1327 00:27:24,375 --> 00:27:25,541 to any other 1328 00:27:25,541 --> 00:27:26,583 crypto assets 1329 00:27:26,583 --> 00:27:27,291 or tokens 1330 00:27:27,291 --> 00:27:28,500 on our balance sheet. 1331 00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:29,916 There's a couple legacy 1332 00:27:29,916 --> 00:27:30,875 token investments 1333 00:27:30,875 --> 00:27:32,125 that are on our balance sheet 1334 00:27:32,125 --> 00:27:34,041 for many, many years ago. 1335 00:27:34,041 --> 00:27:34,708 What? We haven't. 1336 00:27:35,708 --> 00:27:36,833 Oh, God. 1337 00:27:36,833 --> 00:27:38,000 I think we the company. 1338 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:38,916 Before I stepped in, 1339 00:27:38,916 --> 00:27:40,750 they invested in Leo. 1340 00:27:40,750 --> 00:27:43,750 It invested in real? 1341 00:27:43,958 --> 00:27:44,750 Yeah. 1342 00:27:44,750 --> 00:27:45,500 Remember owner said 1343 00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:47,250 Leo from, Bitfinex. 1344 00:27:47,250 --> 00:27:47,833 God knows 1345 00:27:47,833 --> 00:27:49,625 how long ago that was. 1346 00:27:49,625 --> 00:27:50,708 Holy shit. 1347 00:27:50,708 --> 00:27:50,958 Yeah. 1348 00:27:50,958 --> 00:27:51,500 And you, 1349 00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:52,833 you said Mike Novogratz. 1350 00:27:52,833 --> 00:27:54,458 I thought that was like, 1351 00:27:54,458 --> 00:27:56,291 the Cretaceous period to, 1352 00:27:56,291 --> 00:27:56,583 you know. 1353 00:27:56,583 --> 00:27:57,708 Well, it wasn't 1354 00:27:57,708 --> 00:27:58,750 he the guy you tattooed? 1355 00:27:58,750 --> 00:27:59,583 Lou nine. 1356 00:27:59,583 --> 00:28:00,125 His. Yeah. Yeah. 1357 00:28:00,125 --> 00:28:01,208 Yep. Is that. Yeah. 1358 00:28:01,208 --> 00:28:04,000 That's that tattoo, I think. 1359 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:04,625 And at least 1360 00:28:04,625 --> 00:28:05,375 he says that he wears 1361 00:28:05,375 --> 00:28:06,958 it as a reminder for mistakes 1362 00:28:06,958 --> 00:28:09,833 he's made before. Right? 1363 00:28:09,833 --> 00:28:10,208 He's he's 1364 00:28:10,208 --> 00:28:11,375 a great guy, though. 1365 00:28:11,375 --> 00:28:11,666 But, yeah, 1366 00:28:11,666 --> 00:28:12,541 I think he still actually 1367 00:28:12,541 --> 00:28:14,250 has that Luna tattoo. 1368 00:28:14,250 --> 00:28:15,625 Yeah, 1369 00:28:15,625 --> 00:28:16,666 there were a handful of. 1370 00:28:16,666 --> 00:28:16,916 Yeah. 1371 00:28:16,916 --> 00:28:18,458 And then, like, for, 1372 00:28:18,458 --> 00:28:21,000 like, during DeFi summer, 1373 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:21,750 we invested 1374 00:28:21,750 --> 00:28:22,458 in a couple of things 1375 00:28:22,458 --> 00:28:23,583 that were just going on here 1376 00:28:23,583 --> 00:28:23,958 and there. 1377 00:28:23,958 --> 00:28:24,333 We ended up 1378 00:28:24,333 --> 00:28:25,458 turning like 100 K 1379 00:28:25,458 --> 00:28:26,625 into like 3 million 1380 00:28:26,625 --> 00:28:27,041 or something, 1381 00:28:27,041 --> 00:28:28,791 but we decided to liquidate 1382 00:28:28,791 --> 00:28:29,666 all those positions 1383 00:28:29,666 --> 00:28:30,291 because frankly, 1384 00:28:30,291 --> 00:28:31,875 we just decided DeFi summer. 1385 00:28:31,875 --> 00:28:32,500 Okay, great. 1386 00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:33,583 While we were able 1387 00:28:33,583 --> 00:28:34,500 to kind of 1388 00:28:34,500 --> 00:28:35,500 harvest those gains 1389 00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:36,541 and convert them to Bitcoin, 1390 00:28:36,541 --> 00:28:38,250 but it's not something for us 1391 00:28:38,250 --> 00:28:39,541 we would rather be deploying 1392 00:28:39,541 --> 00:28:40,583 to managers, 1393 00:28:40,583 --> 00:28:41,291 allow them 1394 00:28:41,291 --> 00:28:42,458 to professionally manage 1395 00:28:42,458 --> 00:28:43,083 assets 1396 00:28:43,083 --> 00:28:44,833 from our balance sheet. 1397 00:28:44,833 --> 00:28:45,458 The only crypto 1398 00:28:45,458 --> 00:28:46,416 that we touch anymore 1399 00:28:46,416 --> 00:28:48,583 is either a Bitcoin 1400 00:28:48,583 --> 00:28:50,458 or because it is a stablecoin 1401 00:28:50,458 --> 00:28:51,000 and it's the most 1402 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:51,875 widely accepted 1403 00:28:51,875 --> 00:28:54,250 stablecoin tether. Naturally. 1404 00:28:54,250 --> 00:28:55,250 All right. 1405 00:28:55,250 --> 00:28:56,291 Yeah, that's 1406 00:28:56,291 --> 00:28:58,333 that's when within 1407 00:28:58,333 --> 00:28:59,666 my acceptance, 1408 00:29:00,875 --> 00:29:02,208 frames or whatever. 1409 00:29:02,208 --> 00:29:03,125 And yeah. 1410 00:29:03,125 --> 00:29:04,416 So sorry for being so, 1411 00:29:04,416 --> 00:29:05,583 so attacking on this 1412 00:29:05,583 --> 00:29:06,500 but but it's a 1413 00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:07,041 no please 1414 00:29:07,041 --> 00:29:08,333 I love it to to kill. 1415 00:29:08,333 --> 00:29:09,583 Look at the sheer 1416 00:29:09,583 --> 00:29:10,291 coin narrative. 1417 00:29:10,291 --> 00:29:12,875 So I'm just making sure here. 1418 00:29:12,875 --> 00:29:13,083 Yeah. 1419 00:29:13,083 --> 00:29:13,291 Well, 1420 00:29:13,291 --> 00:29:14,041 so here's a narrative 1421 00:29:14,041 --> 00:29:14,791 that I don't even think 1422 00:29:14,791 --> 00:29:17,291 you've, thought to ask, like, 1423 00:29:17,291 --> 00:29:18,750 why should a company, 1424 00:29:18,750 --> 00:29:19,750 why should people buy 1425 00:29:19,750 --> 00:29:20,875 a publicly traded company 1426 00:29:20,875 --> 00:29:21,458 like mine 1427 00:29:21,458 --> 00:29:22,875 even have Bitcoin 1428 00:29:22,875 --> 00:29:23,791 on its balance sheet? 1429 00:29:23,791 --> 00:29:24,750 What real value 1430 00:29:24,750 --> 00:29:25,583 should shareholders 1431 00:29:25,583 --> 00:29:27,333 get from being invested 1432 00:29:27,333 --> 00:29:27,791 in a company 1433 00:29:27,791 --> 00:29:28,583 that has Bitcoin? 1434 00:29:28,583 --> 00:29:29,458 And my answer to 1435 00:29:29,458 --> 00:29:31,625 this is always you should. 1436 00:29:31,625 --> 00:29:32,166 If you want 1437 00:29:32,166 --> 00:29:33,916 exposure to Bitcoin, 1438 00:29:33,916 --> 00:29:35,000 you shouldn't be investing 1439 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,250 in publicly traded companies 1440 00:29:36,250 --> 00:29:38,041 or even Etps or ETFs 1441 00:29:38,041 --> 00:29:39,333 to get that direct exposure 1442 00:29:39,333 --> 00:29:40,208 to Bitcoin. 1443 00:29:40,208 --> 00:29:41,250 Me personally, 1444 00:29:41,250 --> 00:29:42,333 all of my bitcoin 1445 00:29:42,333 --> 00:29:43,125 not tomorrow's 1446 00:29:43,125 --> 00:29:44,458 but mine personal 1447 00:29:44,458 --> 00:29:45,750 is private keys, 1448 00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:47,291 cold wallets, private keys. 1449 00:29:47,291 --> 00:29:49,291 I have a whole system set up. 1450 00:29:49,291 --> 00:29:50,333 Even the wills 1451 00:29:50,333 --> 00:29:51,708 and the trusts and everything 1452 00:29:51,708 --> 00:29:52,958 where elements 1453 00:29:52,958 --> 00:29:54,291 of the private key or, 1454 00:29:55,333 --> 00:29:56,541 words will turn over 1455 00:29:56,541 --> 00:29:57,541 to certain individuals. 1456 00:29:57,541 --> 00:29:58,166 I trust that 1457 00:29:58,166 --> 00:29:58,833 they don't even know 1458 00:29:58,833 --> 00:29:59,208 that they're going 1459 00:29:59,208 --> 00:30:00,125 to be getting those words 1460 00:30:00,125 --> 00:30:00,708 in the future, 1461 00:30:00,708 --> 00:30:01,750 just because 1462 00:30:01,750 --> 00:30:02,458 I don't necessarily 1463 00:30:02,458 --> 00:30:03,041 trust my wife 1464 00:30:03,041 --> 00:30:03,708 to screw up 1465 00:30:03,708 --> 00:30:04,791 accessing that Bitcoin 1466 00:30:04,791 --> 00:30:06,458 at some point. 1467 00:30:06,458 --> 00:30:09,250 So okay, I have to 1468 00:30:09,250 --> 00:30:10,791 I have to sacrifice elements 1469 00:30:10,791 --> 00:30:12,791 of my own Bitcoin security. 1470 00:30:12,791 --> 00:30:13,750 So God forbid 1471 00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:14,166 if I get hit 1472 00:30:14,166 --> 00:30:15,583 by a bus later today, 1473 00:30:15,583 --> 00:30:16,416 I know my wife 1474 00:30:16,416 --> 00:30:17,125 will be entrusted 1475 00:30:17,125 --> 00:30:19,583 with that Bitcoin. 1476 00:30:19,583 --> 00:30:20,125 I don't have 1477 00:30:20,125 --> 00:30:21,000 any of those problem 1478 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,000 because I lost. 1479 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,041 I lost all my because 1480 00:30:23,041 --> 00:30:24,416 in a tragic boating accident. 1481 00:30:24,416 --> 00:30:25,541 Oh, I was going to say, 1482 00:30:25,541 --> 00:30:26,416 actually, I should be. 1483 00:30:26,416 --> 00:30:27,666 I should be telling the IRS 1484 00:30:27,666 --> 00:30:29,458 this, I take that back. It's. 1485 00:30:29,458 --> 00:30:30,416 I had a horrible 1486 00:30:30,416 --> 00:30:31,083 boating accident. 1487 00:30:31,083 --> 00:30:31,500 This is what 1488 00:30:31,500 --> 00:30:32,250 you would have done 1489 00:30:32,250 --> 00:30:33,875 if it had you still had them. 1490 00:30:33,875 --> 00:30:34,416 Yes, yes. 1491 00:30:34,416 --> 00:30:35,750 It's somewhere on the off 1492 00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:36,625 the coast of, 1493 00:30:36,625 --> 00:30:37,958 Gozo, if I remember 1494 00:30:37,958 --> 00:30:38,708 correctly, 1495 00:30:38,708 --> 00:30:39,458 we've never been able 1496 00:30:39,458 --> 00:30:41,166 to find the, Bitcoin. 1497 00:30:41,166 --> 00:30:42,416 Yeah. No. 1498 00:30:42,416 --> 00:30:43,666 So anyways, like, 1499 00:30:43,666 --> 00:30:44,375 I really shouldn't 1500 00:30:44,375 --> 00:30:45,625 be saying that because, hey, 1501 00:30:45,625 --> 00:30:46,833 I run a publicly traded 1502 00:30:46,833 --> 00:30:47,833 company heavily 1503 00:30:47,833 --> 00:30:49,500 investing in Bitcoin. 1504 00:30:49,500 --> 00:30:50,750 And I also created 1505 00:30:50,750 --> 00:30:52,208 some of the first etps, 1506 00:30:52,208 --> 00:30:53,208 the European version 1507 00:30:53,208 --> 00:30:55,750 of a Bitcoin ETF in Europe. 1508 00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:57,000 But see, for me 1509 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,458 it's all about what 1510 00:30:58,458 --> 00:30:59,541 maybe the type 1511 00:30:59,541 --> 00:31:00,791 of user experience 1512 00:31:00,791 --> 00:31:01,791 investors want. 1513 00:31:01,791 --> 00:31:02,916 Because unfortunately, 1514 00:31:02,916 --> 00:31:03,875 the reality is, is 1515 00:31:03,875 --> 00:31:04,416 there's a lot of 1516 00:31:04,416 --> 00:31:06,333 people out there that don't 1517 00:31:06,333 --> 00:31:08,166 trust themselves to 1518 00:31:09,375 --> 00:31:10,500 go out, 1519 00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:11,291 have a Bitcoin 1520 00:31:11,291 --> 00:31:12,208 cold storage wallet, 1521 00:31:12,208 --> 00:31:13,333 remember their seed phrase 1522 00:31:13,333 --> 00:31:15,125 or remember their words, 1523 00:31:15,125 --> 00:31:16,333 remember their private key. 1524 00:31:16,333 --> 00:31:18,583 And then, 1525 00:31:18,583 --> 00:31:19,791 you can go a step further 1526 00:31:19,791 --> 00:31:20,958 in operating your own node. 1527 00:31:20,958 --> 00:31:22,166 I mean, you're not holding 1528 00:31:22,166 --> 00:31:23,208 Bitcoin the right way 1529 00:31:23,208 --> 00:31:24,083 if you're not operating 1530 00:31:24,083 --> 00:31:24,666 your own node. 1531 00:31:24,666 --> 00:31:26,250 That's just the essence, 1532 00:31:26,250 --> 00:31:27,666 the truth of it. Right? 1533 00:31:27,666 --> 00:31:29,625 So the reality is, is that 1534 00:31:29,625 --> 00:31:31,041 if we want Bitcoin adoption, 1535 00:31:31,041 --> 00:31:32,541 the way that I think elements 1536 00:31:32,541 --> 00:31:33,375 of the community want 1537 00:31:33,375 --> 00:31:34,791 Bitcoin adoption, 1538 00:31:34,791 --> 00:31:35,916 ETFs and Https 1539 00:31:35,916 --> 00:31:36,375 and publicly 1540 00:31:36,375 --> 00:31:37,083 traded companies 1541 00:31:37,083 --> 00:31:38,250 holding bitcoin 1542 00:31:38,250 --> 00:31:38,791 are just an 1543 00:31:38,791 --> 00:31:41,625 inevitability of that. Yeah. 1544 00:31:41,625 --> 00:31:44,125 But that okay to their own. 1545 00:31:44,125 --> 00:31:45,166 If they want exposure 1546 00:31:45,166 --> 00:31:45,708 that way 1547 00:31:45,708 --> 00:31:47,166 I don't recommend it. 1548 00:31:47,166 --> 00:31:47,875 But hey if you 1549 00:31:47,875 --> 00:31:48,541 want to trust 1550 00:31:48,541 --> 00:31:49,458 a professional asset 1551 00:31:49,458 --> 00:31:50,791 manager like Deutsche Digital 1552 00:31:50,791 --> 00:31:52,083 or trust a public company 1553 00:31:52,083 --> 00:31:53,250 like MicroStrategy 1554 00:31:53,250 --> 00:31:54,333 or some Aura Asset Group, 1555 00:31:54,333 --> 00:31:56,166 please, by all means. 1556 00:31:56,166 --> 00:31:56,708 Our shares are 1557 00:31:56,708 --> 00:31:57,541 traded in Germany. 1558 00:31:59,166 --> 00:31:59,500 Yeah. 1559 00:31:59,500 --> 00:31:59,791 So. 1560 00:31:59,791 --> 00:32:01,416 So that, 1561 00:32:01,416 --> 00:32:01,791 let me 1562 00:32:01,791 --> 00:32:02,083 give you 1563 00:32:02,083 --> 00:32:03,250 my perspective on that 1564 00:32:03,250 --> 00:32:04,291 and then and see 1565 00:32:04,291 --> 00:32:05,333 what you think about it 1566 00:32:05,333 --> 00:32:05,875 because like, 1567 00:32:05,875 --> 00:32:07,375 I'm interested if, 1568 00:32:07,375 --> 00:32:08,291 if like you agree 1569 00:32:08,291 --> 00:32:09,208 with the framing. 1570 00:32:09,208 --> 00:32:09,625 So. 1571 00:32:09,625 --> 00:32:10,708 Oh the ETFs are absolutely 1572 00:32:10,708 --> 00:32:13,000 an attack vector 1573 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:13,750 that I already know 1574 00:32:13,750 --> 00:32:14,500 where you go. 1575 00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:15,416 No no no look 1576 00:32:15,416 --> 00:32:16,750 I'm not going down that road. 1577 00:32:16,750 --> 00:32:18,250 So so there okay. 1578 00:32:18,250 --> 00:32:19,458 So the road I'm going down 1579 00:32:19,458 --> 00:32:20,375 is like yes, 1580 00:32:20,375 --> 00:32:21,458 I do agree with you. 1581 00:32:21,458 --> 00:32:22,291 I think these things 1582 00:32:22,291 --> 00:32:23,291 are inevitable, 1583 00:32:23,291 --> 00:32:24,875 especially like 1584 00:32:24,875 --> 00:32:25,833 in the transition 1585 00:32:25,833 --> 00:32:26,916 period for sure. 1586 00:32:26,916 --> 00:32:27,625 And I don't know 1587 00:32:27,625 --> 00:32:28,833 if we ever get to like 1588 00:32:28,833 --> 00:32:30,083 you ask me before what 1589 00:32:30,083 --> 00:32:31,000 how I define 1590 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,166 hyperbolic ionization. 1591 00:32:32,166 --> 00:32:33,125 And I think that's 1592 00:32:33,125 --> 00:32:34,666 a super tricky question. 1593 00:32:34,666 --> 00:32:35,791 I think most people get it 1594 00:32:35,791 --> 00:32:37,083 wrong. First and foremost. 1595 00:32:37,083 --> 00:32:38,291 I think hyper bitcoin ization 1596 00:32:38,291 --> 00:32:39,750 is a personal thing, 1597 00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:40,708 and I 1598 00:32:40,708 --> 00:32:41,458 the thing is, 1599 00:32:41,458 --> 00:32:42,500 I don't see an end 1600 00:32:42,500 --> 00:32:43,666 point to it 1601 00:32:43,666 --> 00:32:45,458 because there's always 1602 00:32:45,458 --> 00:32:46,541 one more thing 1603 00:32:46,541 --> 00:32:47,250 that could come 1604 00:32:47,250 --> 00:32:48,541 into the Bitcoin economy. 1605 00:32:48,541 --> 00:32:50,500 Even if all fiat is dead, 1606 00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:51,208 there's always 1607 00:32:51,208 --> 00:32:52,416 people are going to 1608 00:32:52,416 --> 00:32:54,250 the economy can still grow. 1609 00:32:54,250 --> 00:32:55,583 They can still be like the 1610 00:32:55,583 --> 00:32:56,500 I don't see an end 1611 00:32:56,500 --> 00:32:57,375 point to it. 1612 00:32:57,375 --> 00:32:59,000 Also the 1613 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,250 holding your own keys 1614 00:33:00,250 --> 00:33:02,916 and doing Bitcoin properly is 1615 00:33:02,916 --> 00:33:04,041 by far 1616 00:33:04,041 --> 00:33:06,000 like it's absolutely not 1617 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,333 risk free. 1618 00:33:07,333 --> 00:33:09,125 So if you're a clever person, 1619 00:33:09,125 --> 00:33:10,125 you need some type 1620 00:33:10,125 --> 00:33:11,291 of diversification. 1621 00:33:11,291 --> 00:33:11,916 It's not good 1622 00:33:11,916 --> 00:33:12,541 to have all 1623 00:33:12,541 --> 00:33:13,500 eggs in one basket. 1624 00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:14,000 And by that 1625 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:14,791 I mean 1626 00:33:14,791 --> 00:33:15,708 like yes, 1627 00:33:15,708 --> 00:33:17,041 put as much as you as 1628 00:33:17,041 --> 00:33:18,958 you can stomach into Bitcoin, 1629 00:33:18,958 --> 00:33:20,166 but you should probably have 1630 00:33:20,166 --> 00:33:21,458 some kind of other lifeline 1631 00:33:21,458 --> 00:33:22,000 because what are 1632 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:22,583 you going to do 1633 00:33:22,583 --> 00:33:24,000 if like, all of a sudden 1634 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:24,833 there are zeros 1635 00:33:24,833 --> 00:33:25,750 all over your computer 1636 00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:26,500 screen, like 1637 00:33:26,500 --> 00:33:28,250 you are a risk to yourself, 1638 00:33:28,250 --> 00:33:29,250 you can bump your head 1639 00:33:29,250 --> 00:33:31,250 and lose your keys like that. 1640 00:33:31,250 --> 00:33:32,750 It's not entirely risk free. 1641 00:33:32,750 --> 00:33:33,416 So yes, 1642 00:33:33,416 --> 00:33:34,333 I do agree 1643 00:33:34,333 --> 00:33:35,375 that some 1644 00:33:35,375 --> 00:33:37,416 some type of diversification 1645 00:33:37,416 --> 00:33:39,166 and but the thing is 1646 00:33:39,166 --> 00:33:39,791 what what, 1647 00:33:41,916 --> 00:33:43,750 so so so these instruments 1648 00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:45,166 and these half measures, 1649 00:33:45,166 --> 00:33:45,958 if you might call them 1650 00:33:45,958 --> 00:33:47,666 that are absolutely 1651 00:33:47,666 --> 00:33:48,541 a step on the way. 1652 00:33:48,541 --> 00:33:49,750 And they are a good option 1653 00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:50,583 for the boomer 1654 00:33:50,583 --> 00:33:51,000 who doesn't 1655 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:52,125 trust his own skills 1656 00:33:52,125 --> 00:33:53,500 with a computer or whatever. 1657 00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:55,250 Like they're very much, 1658 00:33:55,250 --> 00:33:56,375 tools for them. 1659 00:33:56,375 --> 00:33:57,041 And I like it 1660 00:33:57,041 --> 00:33:57,708 because at 1661 00:33:57,708 --> 00:33:58,625 the end of the day, 1662 00:33:58,625 --> 00:34:00,208 all roads lead to Bitcoin. 1663 00:34:00,208 --> 00:34:00,666 Like this 1664 00:34:00,666 --> 00:34:01,833 does lead to Bitcoin 1665 00:34:01,833 --> 00:34:03,125 getting more powerful. 1666 00:34:03,125 --> 00:34:05,041 What I don't like is 1667 00:34:05,041 --> 00:34:05,791 the, the, 1668 00:34:05,791 --> 00:34:06,875 the road bumps 1669 00:34:06,875 --> 00:34:08,250 that can be put in the way. 1670 00:34:08,250 --> 00:34:09,791 Like if one of these pension 1671 00:34:09,791 --> 00:34:10,541 funds starts 1672 00:34:10,541 --> 00:34:11,750 investing in Bitcoin 1673 00:34:11,750 --> 00:34:13,458 and the crypto, 1674 00:34:13,458 --> 00:34:14,708 for instance, 1675 00:34:14,708 --> 00:34:16,416 or or would like 1676 00:34:16,416 --> 00:34:17,250 when people issue 1677 00:34:17,250 --> 00:34:19,375 NFTs on, on Bitcoin or any, 1678 00:34:19,375 --> 00:34:20,416 any other 1679 00:34:20,416 --> 00:34:21,583 bullshit use case 1680 00:34:21,583 --> 00:34:22,708 than the monetary use case 1681 00:34:22,708 --> 00:34:23,208 and the date 1682 00:34:23,208 --> 00:34:25,125 like dilute stuff, 1683 00:34:25,125 --> 00:34:26,375 dilute Bitcoin's 1684 00:34:26,375 --> 00:34:29,125 pure value as pure money 1685 00:34:29,125 --> 00:34:30,541 because I believe that, 1686 00:34:30,541 --> 00:34:33,458 just as houses or real estate 1687 00:34:33,458 --> 00:34:35,083 become a worse form 1688 00:34:35,083 --> 00:34:37,541 of housing by being money 1689 00:34:37,541 --> 00:34:38,833 so that the billionaire buys 1690 00:34:38,833 --> 00:34:40,750 all those beachfront 1691 00:34:40,750 --> 00:34:42,208 properties, 1692 00:34:42,208 --> 00:34:43,166 all the beachfront 1693 00:34:43,166 --> 00:34:44,375 property and, and, 1694 00:34:45,416 --> 00:34:46,208 every, 1695 00:34:46,208 --> 00:34:46,791 every middle 1696 00:34:46,791 --> 00:34:49,000 class person gets, 1697 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:49,750 out, compete 1698 00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:50,333 in, on the market 1699 00:34:50,333 --> 00:34:51,583 and can't afford a house 1700 00:34:51,583 --> 00:34:52,291 next to the sea. 1701 00:34:52,291 --> 00:34:53,541 So every house is empty. 1702 00:34:53,541 --> 00:34:54,875 So that makes real estate 1703 00:34:54,875 --> 00:34:57,000 worse as what it's intended 1704 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:57,750 use case. 1705 00:34:57,750 --> 00:34:59,166 The same is true for money. 1706 00:34:59,166 --> 00:35:00,291 Oh, you should go to Dubai. 1707 00:35:00,291 --> 00:35:01,625 That's in Dubai. 1708 00:35:01,625 --> 00:35:01,750 Yeah. 1709 00:35:01,750 --> 00:35:02,416 It's like I know 1710 00:35:02,416 --> 00:35:03,833 90% of all the houses 1711 00:35:03,833 --> 00:35:05,208 and everything is just empty. 1712 00:35:05,208 --> 00:35:06,000 But Dubai. 1713 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:06,916 Dubai might have 1714 00:35:06,916 --> 00:35:08,166 a beautiful future 1715 00:35:08,166 --> 00:35:09,291 if they hope for Bitcoin. 1716 00:35:09,291 --> 00:35:09,625 Nice. 1717 00:35:09,625 --> 00:35:11,916 Because then the money works. 1718 00:35:11,916 --> 00:35:13,291 And if. 1719 00:35:13,291 --> 00:35:14,166 But the same is true 1720 00:35:14,166 --> 00:35:15,166 for money. That's my point. 1721 00:35:15,166 --> 00:35:16,291 Like if if money is 1722 00:35:16,291 --> 00:35:16,958 being used 1723 00:35:16,958 --> 00:35:18,416 for arbitrary data 1724 00:35:18,416 --> 00:35:20,750 storage and Jpeg creation, 1725 00:35:20,750 --> 00:35:23,083 then then it's by definition 1726 00:35:23,083 --> 00:35:23,916 becomes a worse 1727 00:35:23,916 --> 00:35:25,041 form of money. 1728 00:35:25,041 --> 00:35:26,291 So like, 1729 00:35:26,291 --> 00:35:27,333 the, the 1730 00:35:27,333 --> 00:35:28,000 framework to 1731 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:28,500 have in your head 1732 00:35:28,500 --> 00:35:29,791 the Satoshi is special 1733 00:35:29,791 --> 00:35:31,208 because it's the purest money 1734 00:35:31,208 --> 00:35:32,041 we have. 1735 00:35:32,041 --> 00:35:32,791 And 1736 00:35:32,791 --> 00:35:34,333 and because it's a very, 1737 00:35:34,333 --> 00:35:36,125 very personal thing. 1738 00:35:36,125 --> 00:35:37,791 The Satoshis don't even exist 1739 00:35:37,791 --> 00:35:39,000 except for in people's 1740 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:39,916 had the ability 1741 00:35:39,916 --> 00:35:41,166 to move them exists, 1742 00:35:41,166 --> 00:35:41,583 and that's 1743 00:35:41,583 --> 00:35:42,833 all in people's heads. 1744 00:35:42,833 --> 00:35:43,833 Nowhere else. 1745 00:35:43,833 --> 00:35:44,166 So. 1746 00:35:44,166 --> 00:35:44,500 So like, 1747 00:35:44,500 --> 00:35:45,000 this is what 1748 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:45,750 makes the Satoshi 1749 00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:47,666 absolutely unique 1750 00:35:47,666 --> 00:35:48,375 in comparison 1751 00:35:48,375 --> 00:35:49,583 to anything else. 1752 00:35:49,583 --> 00:35:50,833 And, so, 1753 00:35:50,833 --> 00:35:52,958 so I'd say all roads 1754 00:35:52,958 --> 00:35:54,125 lead to Bitcoin, 1755 00:35:54,125 --> 00:35:55,333 but you can put up 1756 00:35:55,333 --> 00:35:56,583 roadblocks on the way, 1757 00:35:56,583 --> 00:35:57,166 which makes 1758 00:35:57,166 --> 00:35:58,625 that process slower. 1759 00:35:58,625 --> 00:35:59,291 For instance, 1760 00:35:59,291 --> 00:36:01,291 if people fall for shit coins 1761 00:36:01,291 --> 00:36:03,333 and get get burned, 1762 00:36:03,333 --> 00:36:04,291 it's very unlikely 1763 00:36:04,291 --> 00:36:05,041 that they get back 1764 00:36:05,041 --> 00:36:06,666 to Bitcoin directly 1765 00:36:06,666 --> 00:36:07,166 after that. 1766 00:36:07,166 --> 00:36:07,750 It'll take them 1767 00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:08,708 another ten years 1768 00:36:08,708 --> 00:36:09,458 before they. 1769 00:36:09,458 --> 00:36:10,833 So so I don't think that 1770 00:36:10,833 --> 00:36:11,208 that it's 1771 00:36:11,208 --> 00:36:12,541 accelerating anything 1772 00:36:12,541 --> 00:36:14,000 except people thinking 1773 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,166 that Bitcoin is a scam 1774 00:36:15,166 --> 00:36:16,666 when it actually isn't. 1775 00:36:16,666 --> 00:36:17,666 So yeah. 1776 00:36:17,666 --> 00:36:18,375 And I don't think 1777 00:36:18,375 --> 00:36:19,666 that's primarily 1778 00:36:19,666 --> 00:36:20,416 but that's like 1779 00:36:20,416 --> 00:36:21,125 primarily 1780 00:36:21,125 --> 00:36:22,500 where Bitcoin has 1781 00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:24,375 distinguished itself relative 1782 00:36:24,375 --> 00:36:25,416 to every other 1783 00:36:25,416 --> 00:36:26,750 a crypto asset 1784 00:36:26,750 --> 00:36:28,291 in the entire space. 1785 00:36:28,291 --> 00:36:29,791 Because Bitcoin is 1786 00:36:29,791 --> 00:36:30,666 at its core, 1787 00:36:30,666 --> 00:36:31,458 the most perfect 1788 00:36:31,458 --> 00:36:32,458 form of money 1789 00:36:32,458 --> 00:36:33,291 humanity has ever 1790 00:36:33,291 --> 00:36:34,458 conceived of. 1791 00:36:34,458 --> 00:36:35,083 You can't say that 1792 00:36:35,083 --> 00:36:35,791 about Ethereum. 1793 00:36:35,791 --> 00:36:36,458 You can't say that 1794 00:36:36,458 --> 00:36:37,333 about any of the other 1795 00:36:37,333 --> 00:36:38,083 layer ones. 1796 00:36:38,083 --> 00:36:38,625 You can't say 1797 00:36:38,625 --> 00:36:39,916 that about tether, 1798 00:36:39,916 --> 00:36:41,500 and you certainly cannot say 1799 00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:43,125 that about any of the ICOs 1800 00:36:43,125 --> 00:36:43,958 or NFTs 1801 00:36:43,958 --> 00:36:44,375 or anything 1802 00:36:44,375 --> 00:36:45,666 that has been tokenized 1803 00:36:45,666 --> 00:36:46,333 on any of those 1804 00:36:46,333 --> 00:36:47,791 other blockchains. You can. 1805 00:36:47,791 --> 00:36:49,375 There is no second best. 1806 00:36:49,375 --> 00:36:49,833 Exactly. 1807 00:36:49,833 --> 00:36:50,750 There is no second best 1808 00:36:50,750 --> 00:36:52,083 when it comes to money. 1809 00:36:52,083 --> 00:36:52,750 Hello there. 1810 00:36:52,750 --> 00:36:53,916 I'm Kurt Swann home, 1811 00:36:53,916 --> 00:36:54,375 and I'm 1812 00:36:54,375 --> 00:36:55,458 an International village 1813 00:36:55,458 --> 00:36:56,958 idiot and author. 1814 00:36:56,958 --> 00:36:58,458 These are my books 1815 00:36:58,458 --> 00:36:59,625 on Bitcoin. 1816 00:36:59,625 --> 00:37:00,458 Bitcoin sovereignty 1817 00:37:00,458 --> 00:37:01,750 through mathematics. 1818 00:37:01,750 --> 00:37:02,875 Bitcoin independence 1819 00:37:02,875 --> 00:37:04,458 reimagined. Bitcoin. 1820 00:37:04,458 --> 00:37:05,291 Everything divided 1821 00:37:05,291 --> 00:37:06,416 by 21 million. 1822 00:37:06,416 --> 00:37:07,375 I'm Bitcoin 1823 00:37:07,375 --> 00:37:08,833 the inverse of clown world. 1824 00:37:08,833 --> 00:37:10,750 These are now re-edited, 1825 00:37:10,750 --> 00:37:12,708 redesigned and available 1826 00:37:12,708 --> 00:37:13,333 from the Bitcoin 1827 00:37:13,333 --> 00:37:14,083 Infinity store. 1828 00:37:14,083 --> 00:37:15,250 I mean look at that. 1829 00:37:15,250 --> 00:37:16,708 Look at how your collection 1830 00:37:16,708 --> 00:37:18,208 could look. 1831 00:37:18,208 --> 00:37:19,666 Oh. It's upside down. 1832 00:37:19,666 --> 00:37:21,041 But there they are anyway. 1833 00:37:21,041 --> 00:37:22,083 But more than that, 1834 00:37:22,083 --> 00:37:23,041 all of these books 1835 00:37:23,041 --> 00:37:24,791 will be released for free. 1836 00:37:24,791 --> 00:37:26,083 Chapter by chapter, week 1837 00:37:26,083 --> 00:37:27,541 by week on Noster. 1838 00:37:27,541 --> 00:37:29,583 Also accompanied by a video 1839 00:37:29,583 --> 00:37:30,166 that Luke 1840 00:37:30,166 --> 00:37:31,333 and I will make talking 1841 00:37:31,333 --> 00:37:32,875 about the ideas in the book. 1842 00:37:32,875 --> 00:37:33,708 Where we answer 1843 00:37:33,708 --> 00:37:34,916 your questions 1844 00:37:34,916 --> 00:37:36,625 because you can sign up 1845 00:37:36,625 --> 00:37:37,333 for the Bitcoin 1846 00:37:37,333 --> 00:37:38,916 Infinity Academy 1847 00:37:38,916 --> 00:37:40,166 and join courses 1848 00:37:40,166 --> 00:37:40,666 for each 1849 00:37:40,666 --> 00:37:42,000 and every one of the books, 1850 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:43,208 and talk to us 1851 00:37:43,208 --> 00:37:44,000 every now and then 1852 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,166 and get other perks 1853 00:37:45,166 --> 00:37:45,958 like a free 1854 00:37:45,958 --> 00:37:47,291 set of steak knives. 1855 00:37:47,291 --> 00:37:48,166 So go to the Bitcoin 1856 00:37:48,166 --> 00:37:49,541 Infinity store right now. 1857 00:37:49,541 --> 00:37:50,291 Get the books. 1858 00:37:50,291 --> 00:37:51,625 Sign up for the Academy. 1859 00:37:51,625 --> 00:37:53,250 Now the question is, is 1860 00:37:53,250 --> 00:37:54,375 what are they? 1861 00:37:54,375 --> 00:37:55,083 Because then there's 1862 00:37:55,083 --> 00:37:57,333 other assets, right? 1863 00:37:57,333 --> 00:37:58,041 You have equities. 1864 00:37:58,041 --> 00:37:59,000 That's derivatives. 1865 00:37:59,000 --> 00:37:59,458 Every other 1866 00:37:59,458 --> 00:38:00,375 financial instrument 1867 00:38:00,375 --> 00:38:02,041 that we've ever conceived of. 1868 00:38:02,041 --> 00:38:03,958 Now, is there a world 1869 00:38:03,958 --> 00:38:05,375 where Bitcoin 1870 00:38:05,375 --> 00:38:06,458 as the most perfect 1871 00:38:06,458 --> 00:38:07,666 money ever created 1872 00:38:07,666 --> 00:38:09,000 and these other assets 1873 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,375 coexist? 1874 00:38:10,375 --> 00:38:10,708 Yeah, it's 1875 00:38:10,708 --> 00:38:11,250 kind of the world 1876 00:38:11,250 --> 00:38:12,083 we're living in today. 1877 00:38:12,083 --> 00:38:12,583 It's just that 1878 00:38:12,583 --> 00:38:13,583 these assets, 1879 00:38:13,583 --> 00:38:15,083 except for the bullshit 1880 00:38:15,083 --> 00:38:15,833 crypto assets 1881 00:38:15,833 --> 00:38:16,583 we currently see 1882 00:38:16,583 --> 00:38:18,125 in the world today, 1883 00:38:18,125 --> 00:38:19,166 they're traded on 1884 00:38:19,166 --> 00:38:20,833 capital markets. 1885 00:38:20,833 --> 00:38:22,125 They're highly centralized 1886 00:38:22,125 --> 00:38:22,541 on the New York 1887 00:38:22,541 --> 00:38:24,291 Stock Exchange and other OTC 1888 00:38:24,291 --> 00:38:25,833 desks in private 1889 00:38:25,833 --> 00:38:26,833 equity and venture 1890 00:38:26,833 --> 00:38:29,250 capital, etc.. Right. 1891 00:38:29,250 --> 00:38:31,041 They're in real estate funds. 1892 00:38:31,041 --> 00:38:32,500 Now, the question is, is can 1893 00:38:32,500 --> 00:38:33,916 and should we bring 1894 00:38:33,916 --> 00:38:34,583 those assets 1895 00:38:34,583 --> 00:38:36,208 to the blockchain or can 1896 00:38:36,208 --> 00:38:37,083 and should we 1897 00:38:37,083 --> 00:38:38,041 bring those assets 1898 00:38:38,041 --> 00:38:39,625 to Bitcoin? 1899 00:38:39,625 --> 00:38:41,125 Now the easiest 1900 00:38:41,125 --> 00:38:42,083 and shortest answer 1901 00:38:42,083 --> 00:38:44,333 I think is no. 1902 00:38:44,333 --> 00:38:45,625 Yes. 1903 00:38:45,625 --> 00:38:46,750 Well, for, for, you know. 1904 00:38:46,750 --> 00:38:48,666 Right. For me it's. Yes. 1905 00:38:48,666 --> 00:38:50,083 Because 1906 00:38:50,083 --> 00:38:52,166 creating a global economy 1907 00:38:52,166 --> 00:38:54,625 that trades 24 over seven, 1908 00:38:54,625 --> 00:38:56,125 that allows 1909 00:38:56,125 --> 00:38:56,916 everybody 1910 00:38:56,916 --> 00:38:58,000 in as permissionless 1911 00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,666 a manner as possible 1912 00:38:59,666 --> 00:39:00,833 to trade these types 1913 00:39:00,833 --> 00:39:01,583 of assets 1914 00:39:01,583 --> 00:39:03,750 and realize the value capture 1915 00:39:03,750 --> 00:39:04,708 of the appreciation 1916 00:39:04,708 --> 00:39:06,958 of those assets over time. 1917 00:39:06,958 --> 00:39:07,583 Well, I, 1918 00:39:07,583 --> 00:39:09,458 I frankly love that idea. 1919 00:39:09,458 --> 00:39:11,000 Can it happen on other coins? 1920 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,041 Yeah, we've already 1921 00:39:12,041 --> 00:39:12,833 kind of seen 1922 00:39:12,833 --> 00:39:13,041 I mean, 1923 00:39:13,041 --> 00:39:13,458 there's already 1924 00:39:13,458 --> 00:39:14,791 been tokenized funds 1925 00:39:14,791 --> 00:39:16,250 on Ethereum, right. 1926 00:39:17,250 --> 00:39:17,666 You've seen 1927 00:39:17,666 --> 00:39:19,666 tokenized went to shit 1928 00:39:19,666 --> 00:39:20,916 because it was a scam. 1929 00:39:20,916 --> 00:39:22,666 So so I would say no, 1930 00:39:22,666 --> 00:39:23,875 that hasn't really happened. 1931 00:39:23,875 --> 00:39:25,166 That's not necessarily true. 1932 00:39:25,166 --> 00:39:25,958 There's a couple of funds 1933 00:39:25,958 --> 00:39:27,750 I know like KKR 1934 00:39:27,750 --> 00:39:28,708 that is tokenized. 1935 00:39:28,708 --> 00:39:29,250 I think they had 1936 00:39:29,250 --> 00:39:30,000 like what 700. 1937 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:31,083 But but it was 1938 00:39:31,083 --> 00:39:32,083 but there are winners 1939 00:39:32,083 --> 00:39:33,291 and losers in this. 1940 00:39:33,291 --> 00:39:34,416 There are only winners 1941 00:39:34,416 --> 00:39:35,750 in Bitcoin. That's the point. 1942 00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:37,583 You don't have to like 1943 00:39:37,583 --> 00:39:38,916 this is not a zero sum game. 1944 00:39:38,916 --> 00:39:39,750 And this is what people 1945 00:39:39,750 --> 00:39:40,666 get wrong about it. 1946 00:39:40,666 --> 00:39:42,166 And by the way I think the 1947 00:39:42,166 --> 00:39:44,083 I hardly I, 1948 00:39:44,083 --> 00:39:45,416 I have a hard disagree 1949 00:39:45,416 --> 00:39:46,625 on putting anything else 1950 00:39:46,625 --> 00:39:47,333 on bitcoin 1951 00:39:47,333 --> 00:39:48,958 for a very simple reason. 1952 00:39:48,958 --> 00:39:50,041 There are two scarce 1953 00:39:50,041 --> 00:39:51,166 assets in Bitcoin. 1954 00:39:51,166 --> 00:39:52,791 One is the Satoshi itself 1955 00:39:52,791 --> 00:39:54,500 and the other is block space. 1956 00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:55,208 And if you fill 1957 00:39:55,208 --> 00:39:56,083 up block space 1958 00:39:56,083 --> 00:39:57,583 and if you block the utx 1959 00:39:57,583 --> 00:39:58,541 all set 1960 00:39:58,541 --> 00:40:00,333 by putting arbitrary data 1961 00:40:00,333 --> 00:40:00,750 into it 1962 00:40:00,750 --> 00:40:02,458 and making more and more, 1963 00:40:02,458 --> 00:40:04,666 you take those you you, 1964 00:40:04,666 --> 00:40:05,625 what you inevitably 1965 00:40:05,625 --> 00:40:06,208 end up with 1966 00:40:06,208 --> 00:40:08,541 is a higher starting 1967 00:40:08,541 --> 00:40:10,375 cost for firing up that node, 1968 00:40:11,333 --> 00:40:13,250 and what that inevitably 1969 00:40:13,250 --> 00:40:15,125 will lead to is, 1970 00:40:15,125 --> 00:40:17,208 sacrificing decentralization, 1971 00:40:17,208 --> 00:40:18,291 which means Bitcoin 1972 00:40:18,291 --> 00:40:19,375 is just another shit coin, 1973 00:40:19,375 --> 00:40:19,958 and then we're 1974 00:40:19,958 --> 00:40:21,750 all fucking doomed. 1975 00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:22,333 That is the 1976 00:40:22,333 --> 00:40:23,208 inevitable result. 1977 00:40:23,208 --> 00:40:24,541 So there's like interested. 1978 00:40:24,541 --> 00:40:24,791 Yeah. 1979 00:40:24,791 --> 00:40:25,083 So so 1980 00:40:25,083 --> 00:40:26,250 there's an interesting, 1981 00:40:26,250 --> 00:40:28,583 conversation I had recently. 1982 00:40:28,583 --> 00:40:29,666 There's, 1 1983 00:40:29,666 --> 00:40:30,625 or 2 groups out there 1984 00:40:30,625 --> 00:40:31,458 that I've become aware 1985 00:40:31,458 --> 00:40:32,458 of over the last six 1986 00:40:32,458 --> 00:40:33,500 or so months, 1987 00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:34,916 that their entire thesis 1988 00:40:34,916 --> 00:40:35,791 is exactly aligned 1989 00:40:35,791 --> 00:40:36,916 to what you just said, that 1990 00:40:36,916 --> 00:40:37,333 if we do 1991 00:40:37,333 --> 00:40:39,083 start to see tokenization 1992 00:40:39,083 --> 00:40:40,541 on Bitcoin, like 1993 00:40:40,541 --> 00:40:41,375 not just ordinals 1994 00:40:41,375 --> 00:40:41,791 and everything 1995 00:40:41,791 --> 00:40:42,625 we've seen thus far, 1996 00:40:42,625 --> 00:40:44,000 but like we see maybe layer 1997 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,625 twos that build tokenization 1998 00:40:45,625 --> 00:40:46,833 or there's an update 1999 00:40:46,833 --> 00:40:48,125 to the core code 2000 00:40:48,125 --> 00:40:49,375 that these groups 2001 00:40:49,375 --> 00:40:50,666 are already anticipating 2002 00:40:50,666 --> 00:40:51,958 that that could happen. 2003 00:40:51,958 --> 00:40:52,750 And they're building 2004 00:40:52,750 --> 00:40:54,416 futures platforms, 2005 00:40:54,416 --> 00:40:55,458 to purchase, 2006 00:40:55,458 --> 00:40:55,833 the future 2007 00:40:55,833 --> 00:40:57,416 rights to block space 2008 00:40:57,416 --> 00:40:58,791 because the block space 2009 00:40:58,791 --> 00:41:00,625 becomes more scarce 2010 00:41:00,625 --> 00:41:03,125 then the Satoshi is itself. 2011 00:41:03,125 --> 00:41:03,958 I mean, when Bitcoin hits 2012 00:41:03,958 --> 00:41:04,916 $1 million a Bitcoin, 2013 00:41:04,916 --> 00:41:05,958 the Satoshi is worth a penny 2014 00:41:05,958 --> 00:41:06,541 a day. 2015 00:41:06,541 --> 00:41:07,500 Just to clarify 2016 00:41:07,500 --> 00:41:09,291 that the block space 2017 00:41:09,291 --> 00:41:10,750 cannot be scarcer 2018 00:41:10,750 --> 00:41:11,833 than the Satoshi, 2019 00:41:11,833 --> 00:41:13,416 only within a limited time 2020 00:41:13,416 --> 00:41:13,833 frame. 2021 00:41:13,833 --> 00:41:15,625 So per time unit it can, 2022 00:41:15,625 --> 00:41:17,666 but not in an forever mode. 2023 00:41:17,666 --> 00:41:18,208 It cannot. 2024 00:41:18,208 --> 00:41:19,166 It's such. 2025 00:41:19,166 --> 00:41:19,375 Yeah, 2026 00:41:19,375 --> 00:41:20,708 but only within that block 2027 00:41:20,708 --> 00:41:21,958 it can be. Right? Yeah. 2028 00:41:21,958 --> 00:41:22,708 Which basically is 2029 00:41:22,708 --> 00:41:23,500 what they're selling. 2030 00:41:23,500 --> 00:41:25,375 It's a, it's a forward 2031 00:41:25,375 --> 00:41:26,125 or their platform 2032 00:41:26,125 --> 00:41:27,083 would be selling a forward 2033 00:41:27,083 --> 00:41:29,208 on a future block, 2034 00:41:29,208 --> 00:41:30,750 that you would have priority 2035 00:41:30,750 --> 00:41:31,541 with whatever node 2036 00:41:31,541 --> 00:41:33,208 group or miner to settle 2037 00:41:33,208 --> 00:41:34,083 whatever transaction 2038 00:41:34,083 --> 00:41:34,541 you have. 2039 00:41:34,541 --> 00:41:36,083 If Bitcoin becomes too 2040 00:41:36,083 --> 00:41:36,500 crowded 2041 00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:36,708 from a 2042 00:41:36,708 --> 00:41:38,458 transactional standpoint, 2043 00:41:38,458 --> 00:41:39,500 which is actually kind of 2044 00:41:39,500 --> 00:41:41,000 fascinating to think of, 2045 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:41,625 which is then 2046 00:41:41,625 --> 00:41:42,791 where the conversation 2047 00:41:42,791 --> 00:41:43,750 has to go, 2048 00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:44,791 that I believe 2049 00:41:44,791 --> 00:41:46,375 that you have to push any 2050 00:41:46,375 --> 00:41:46,666 of what 2051 00:41:46,666 --> 00:41:48,000 that theoretical transaction 2052 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,375 volume would be 2053 00:41:49,375 --> 00:41:51,625 to a theoretical layer two 2054 00:41:51,625 --> 00:41:53,541 or a parallel coin or, 2055 00:41:53,541 --> 00:41:55,208 an adjacent coin, 2056 00:41:55,208 --> 00:41:55,958 which again, 2057 00:41:55,958 --> 00:41:56,708 then it's somewhere 2058 00:41:56,708 --> 00:41:58,666 else, right? Exactly. 2059 00:41:58,666 --> 00:42:00,458 Or somewhere else completely. 2060 00:42:00,458 --> 00:42:00,708 Which is 2061 00:42:00,708 --> 00:42:01,375 actually interesting. 2062 00:42:01,375 --> 00:42:03,875 Did you see, in El Salvador, 2063 00:42:04,916 --> 00:42:06,083 at plan B, tether 2064 00:42:06,083 --> 00:42:06,708 announced that 2065 00:42:06,708 --> 00:42:07,375 they're going to be trying 2066 00:42:07,375 --> 00:42:08,250 to bring tether 2067 00:42:08,250 --> 00:42:10,125 on top of Bitcoin. 2068 00:42:10,125 --> 00:42:10,791 Yeah. 2069 00:42:10,791 --> 00:42:12,250 And and like this is 2070 00:42:12,250 --> 00:42:12,791 what would your thoughts 2071 00:42:12,791 --> 00:42:13,250 be on that. 2072 00:42:13,250 --> 00:42:14,291 Because the first time I, 2073 00:42:14,291 --> 00:42:15,291 the first time that I saw 2074 00:42:15,291 --> 00:42:15,833 that I was like 2075 00:42:15,833 --> 00:42:17,333 that sounds incredible. 2076 00:42:17,333 --> 00:42:18,000 So and this is 2077 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:18,416 maybe just 2078 00:42:18,416 --> 00:42:19,791 where I think of Bitcoin 2079 00:42:19,791 --> 00:42:20,541 slightly different 2080 00:42:20,541 --> 00:42:21,208 than you do 2081 00:42:21,208 --> 00:42:22,958 because I think of Bitcoin 2082 00:42:22,958 --> 00:42:25,958 with my accounting brain. 2083 00:42:26,083 --> 00:42:27,458 When I put my CPA hat on, 2084 00:42:27,458 --> 00:42:28,166 I think of Bitcoin 2085 00:42:28,166 --> 00:42:29,583 as a ledger system. 2086 00:42:29,583 --> 00:42:31,375 And I want all of global 2087 00:42:31,375 --> 00:42:33,291 finance to transact 2088 00:42:33,291 --> 00:42:34,333 and be immutable 2089 00:42:34,333 --> 00:42:36,000 and be permissionless 2090 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:37,083 and be transparent. 2091 00:42:37,083 --> 00:42:38,000 On top of that, 2092 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:38,625 what I think 2093 00:42:38,625 --> 00:42:40,583 is a perfect ledger. 2094 00:42:40,583 --> 00:42:41,208 So that's 2095 00:42:41,208 --> 00:42:42,208 I think that's, 2096 00:42:42,208 --> 00:42:43,791 that's a utopia 2097 00:42:43,791 --> 00:42:44,708 and that is that 2098 00:42:44,708 --> 00:42:46,666 the entire system 2099 00:42:46,666 --> 00:42:49,041 is dependent on the Satoshi 2100 00:42:49,041 --> 00:42:50,708 being the asset. 2101 00:42:50,708 --> 00:42:51,833 Like, yeah, 2102 00:42:51,833 --> 00:42:53,250 Bitcoin doesn't reward 2103 00:42:53,250 --> 00:42:54,708 its miners in dollars 2104 00:42:54,708 --> 00:42:55,708 or tether or, 2105 00:42:55,708 --> 00:42:56,875 or fucking monkey 2106 00:42:56,875 --> 00:42:58,541 JPEGs or anything else. 2107 00:42:58,541 --> 00:42:59,875 It's it rewards 2108 00:42:59,875 --> 00:43:01,541 its miners in, 2109 00:43:02,708 --> 00:43:03,958 in Satoshi's. 2110 00:43:03,958 --> 00:43:06,208 And it's actually not like 2111 00:43:06,208 --> 00:43:08,375 the miners do not 2112 00:43:08,375 --> 00:43:09,958 search for satoshis. 2113 00:43:09,958 --> 00:43:11,958 They don't mine bitcoins. 2114 00:43:11,958 --> 00:43:13,416 They mined blocks 2115 00:43:13,416 --> 00:43:14,291 and they mined blocks. 2116 00:43:14,291 --> 00:43:14,875 Based block 2117 00:43:14,875 --> 00:43:16,208 space is the asset 2118 00:43:16,208 --> 00:43:17,583 they produce. 2119 00:43:17,583 --> 00:43:19,458 And the Bitcoin miners 2120 00:43:19,458 --> 00:43:20,458 who run the nodes 2121 00:43:20,458 --> 00:43:21,500 and actually 2122 00:43:21,500 --> 00:43:24,250 actually run the system, 2123 00:43:24,250 --> 00:43:25,791 we pay the miners 2124 00:43:25,791 --> 00:43:27,500 to do our security work 2125 00:43:27,500 --> 00:43:29,625 for us and create blocks. 2126 00:43:29,625 --> 00:43:31,250 So the miners get paid 2127 00:43:31,250 --> 00:43:31,916 by the Bitcoin. 2128 00:43:31,916 --> 00:43:32,708 It's not only in 2129 00:43:32,708 --> 00:43:35,333 the new newly minted Bitcoin, 2130 00:43:35,333 --> 00:43:36,833 but also in the fees. 2131 00:43:36,833 --> 00:43:38,291 So the two aspects of that, 2132 00:43:38,291 --> 00:43:38,750 the fees 2133 00:43:38,750 --> 00:43:40,375 and the newly minted coins. 2134 00:43:40,375 --> 00:43:41,208 And as soon as 2135 00:43:41,208 --> 00:43:42,083 you start messing 2136 00:43:42,083 --> 00:43:43,583 with those incentives 2137 00:43:43,583 --> 00:43:44,625 and create other things 2138 00:43:44,625 --> 00:43:45,958 and pretend 2139 00:43:45,958 --> 00:43:47,625 that you can order satoshis, 2140 00:43:47,625 --> 00:43:49,500 which you can't like, 2141 00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:50,708 there is no ordering 2142 00:43:50,708 --> 00:43:52,250 in the actual 2143 00:43:52,250 --> 00:43:53,541 Bitcoin protocol 2144 00:43:53,541 --> 00:43:54,750 or the ordering, 2145 00:43:55,708 --> 00:43:57,875 in in the ordinals bullshit. 2146 00:43:57,875 --> 00:43:59,041 It's made by third 2147 00:43:59,041 --> 00:44:00,250 party websites. 2148 00:44:00,250 --> 00:44:01,166 So when you see 2149 00:44:01,166 --> 00:44:02,416 if you go to mempool 2150 00:44:02,416 --> 00:44:03,000 dot space 2151 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,208 and you see something, 2152 00:44:05,208 --> 00:44:06,541 the like, you see this 2153 00:44:06,541 --> 00:44:07,666 transaction is data 2154 00:44:07,666 --> 00:44:08,458 and you can even 2155 00:44:08,458 --> 00:44:09,416 see the block 2156 00:44:09,416 --> 00:44:10,166 looking like 2157 00:44:10,166 --> 00:44:11,166 a picture of Donald Trump 2158 00:44:11,166 --> 00:44:11,875 or something, 2159 00:44:11,875 --> 00:44:12,708 you have to remember 2160 00:44:12,708 --> 00:44:13,541 that mempool dot 2161 00:44:13,541 --> 00:44:15,125 space is not Bitcoin. 2162 00:44:15,125 --> 00:44:16,916 It's a third party website 2163 00:44:16,916 --> 00:44:18,458 that chooses to 2164 00:44:18,458 --> 00:44:20,500 to visualize the blockchain 2165 00:44:20,500 --> 00:44:22,458 in this in this way. 2166 00:44:22,458 --> 00:44:24,208 But it's not real. 2167 00:44:24,208 --> 00:44:25,875 It's it's absolutely 2168 00:44:25,875 --> 00:44:27,708 third party has nothing to do 2169 00:44:27,708 --> 00:44:29,083 with actual Bitcoin 2170 00:44:29,083 --> 00:44:30,708 like that is not internal 2171 00:44:30,708 --> 00:44:31,416 to the system. 2172 00:44:31,416 --> 00:44:33,250 All of that is external. 2173 00:44:33,250 --> 00:44:33,750 And this is 2174 00:44:33,750 --> 00:44:35,375 why it's so crucial for the 2175 00:44:35,375 --> 00:44:37,125 for the system to be pure 2176 00:44:37,125 --> 00:44:38,375 and internal to itself. 2177 00:44:38,375 --> 00:44:39,708 And I'm a huge 2178 00:44:39,708 --> 00:44:41,166 a proponent of ocean 2179 00:44:41,166 --> 00:44:43,541 mining and knots and 2180 00:44:43,541 --> 00:44:45,250 Luke Dashers work here 2181 00:44:45,250 --> 00:44:46,166 because right now 2182 00:44:46,166 --> 00:44:47,000 he's the only one 2183 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:48,458 and he's done it before, 2184 00:44:48,458 --> 00:44:49,583 protected Bitcoin 2185 00:44:49,583 --> 00:44:51,375 from itself from its, 2186 00:44:51,375 --> 00:44:53,958 its ignorant users. 2187 00:44:53,958 --> 00:44:56,250 But but for instance, 2188 00:44:56,250 --> 00:44:57,875 he came up with SegWit as a, 2189 00:44:57,875 --> 00:44:58,708 as a soft fork 2190 00:44:58,708 --> 00:45:00,625 instead of a hard fork. And 2191 00:45:01,791 --> 00:45:02,250 so he's 2192 00:45:02,250 --> 00:45:03,166 once again 2193 00:45:03,166 --> 00:45:03,833 pointing out 2194 00:45:03,833 --> 00:45:04,375 something that 2195 00:45:04,375 --> 00:45:05,250 no one else saw. 2196 00:45:05,250 --> 00:45:06,541 And, Short Ocean 2197 00:45:06,541 --> 00:45:06,958 won't be 2198 00:45:06,958 --> 00:45:08,083 the only alternative. 2199 00:45:08,083 --> 00:45:08,500 I know that 2200 00:45:08,500 --> 00:45:09,166 other mining 2201 00:45:09,166 --> 00:45:10,041 pools are coming up 2202 00:45:10,041 --> 00:45:10,750 that are going 2203 00:45:10,750 --> 00:45:12,291 to be transparent like this, 2204 00:45:12,291 --> 00:45:13,166 and also are going 2205 00:45:13,166 --> 00:45:14,666 to filter out the bullshit 2206 00:45:14,666 --> 00:45:16,000 because it's absolutely. 2207 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:17,208 And meanwhile, 2208 00:45:17,208 --> 00:45:18,291 fucking wizards 2209 00:45:18,291 --> 00:45:21,083 get 30 million, 2210 00:45:21,083 --> 00:45:21,875 ordinary cut 2211 00:45:21,875 --> 00:45:22,791 bucks in funding 2212 00:45:22,791 --> 00:45:23,958 from some other firm 2213 00:45:23,958 --> 00:45:24,833 that have found out 2214 00:45:24,833 --> 00:45:25,791 another way to rug 2215 00:45:25,791 --> 00:45:26,500 pull people. 2216 00:45:26,500 --> 00:45:27,333 What, what? 2217 00:45:27,333 --> 00:45:28,708 These are chip coins. 2218 00:45:28,708 --> 00:45:29,333 They're doing 2219 00:45:29,333 --> 00:45:31,375 the exact same type of scams 2220 00:45:31,375 --> 00:45:33,958 as they were back in 2017. 2221 00:45:33,958 --> 00:45:34,416 It's just that 2222 00:45:34,416 --> 00:45:35,125 they figured out 2223 00:45:35,125 --> 00:45:36,166 a way to fool people 2224 00:45:36,166 --> 00:45:36,833 that you can do it 2225 00:45:36,833 --> 00:45:39,083 on Bitcoin, but in reality, 2226 00:45:39,083 --> 00:45:40,666 owning anything, 2227 00:45:40,666 --> 00:45:41,541 owning any 2228 00:45:41,541 --> 00:45:42,708 arbitrary data 2229 00:45:42,708 --> 00:45:44,000 is not ownership at all. 2230 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:44,875 It's just like owning 2231 00:45:44,875 --> 00:45:45,916 a star in the 2232 00:45:45,916 --> 00:45:47,250 Andromeda galaxy 2233 00:45:47,250 --> 00:45:48,500 where you can say it's yours, 2234 00:45:48,500 --> 00:45:49,500 but you can't fucking do 2235 00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:50,750 anything with it. 2236 00:45:50,750 --> 00:45:51,333 Yeah, it's 2237 00:45:51,333 --> 00:45:52,625 everyone else's too. 2238 00:45:52,625 --> 00:45:53,625 Like it's on there 2239 00:45:53,625 --> 00:45:54,291 on the blockchain. 2240 00:45:54,291 --> 00:45:55,333 The only thing that makes 2241 00:45:55,333 --> 00:45:57,083 the Satoshi different 2242 00:45:57,083 --> 00:45:58,250 is the probabilities 2243 00:45:58,250 --> 00:45:59,291 that we talked about before. 2244 00:45:59,291 --> 00:45:59,875 It's, 2245 00:45:59,875 --> 00:46:01,166 you don't actually own it. 2246 00:46:01,166 --> 00:46:02,541 You just find it improbable 2247 00:46:02,541 --> 00:46:03,250 that someone else 2248 00:46:03,250 --> 00:46:04,583 will figure out the key. 2249 00:46:04,583 --> 00:46:05,791 This is not true at all 2250 00:46:05,791 --> 00:46:07,125 for any other token, 2251 00:46:07,125 --> 00:46:08,125 because the issuer 2252 00:46:08,125 --> 00:46:09,208 of that token 2253 00:46:09,208 --> 00:46:10,375 and whoever owns the third 2254 00:46:10,375 --> 00:46:12,208 party website can do with it 2255 00:46:12,208 --> 00:46:13,000 what they wish. 2256 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:14,208 At any point in time. 2257 00:46:14,208 --> 00:46:15,041 And you've seen this 2258 00:46:15,041 --> 00:46:16,166 with fucking NFTs 2259 00:46:16,166 --> 00:46:17,416 that were unique 2260 00:46:17,416 --> 00:46:18,666 to just about every project 2261 00:46:18,666 --> 00:46:19,083 out there. 2262 00:46:19,083 --> 00:46:19,375 Yeah, 2263 00:46:19,375 --> 00:46:21,208 and just about every 2264 00:46:21,208 --> 00:46:22,333 crypto asset, 2265 00:46:22,333 --> 00:46:23,166 as you call them. 2266 00:46:23,166 --> 00:46:23,750 I call them 2267 00:46:23,750 --> 00:46:24,916 fucking share coins. 2268 00:46:24,916 --> 00:46:26,125 And that's the proper name. 2269 00:46:26,125 --> 00:46:27,333 It's not crypto assets. 2270 00:46:27,333 --> 00:46:28,250 There is no second 2271 00:46:28,250 --> 00:46:29,458 best like this is 2272 00:46:29,458 --> 00:46:31,166 this is the whole point. 2273 00:46:31,166 --> 00:46:33,333 If there was a second best, 2274 00:46:33,333 --> 00:46:34,041 Bitcoin would 2275 00:46:34,041 --> 00:46:35,000 also be pointless 2276 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:35,750 because Bitcoin 2277 00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:36,541 would just be another 2278 00:46:36,541 --> 00:46:38,958 shit coin. So yeah, but 2279 00:46:40,333 --> 00:46:43,208 I so I don't disagree. 2280 00:46:43,208 --> 00:46:43,958 The one question 2281 00:46:43,958 --> 00:46:44,541 I would have for 2282 00:46:44,541 --> 00:46:46,625 you though would be is 2283 00:46:46,625 --> 00:46:48,916 so where do we see 2284 00:46:48,916 --> 00:46:51,208 investments in companies 2285 00:46:51,208 --> 00:46:52,375 in equities 2286 00:46:52,375 --> 00:46:53,875 or other financial. Yeah. 2287 00:46:53,875 --> 00:46:54,541 Where do we see 2288 00:46:54,541 --> 00:46:55,208 investments 2289 00:46:55,208 --> 00:46:57,083 in financial instruments 2290 00:46:57,083 --> 00:46:57,291 okay. 2291 00:46:57,291 --> 00:46:58,583 In that hyper bitcoin 2292 00:46:58,583 --> 00:46:59,125 ization world 2293 00:46:59,125 --> 00:46:59,958 that you're describing. 2294 00:46:59,958 --> 00:47:00,708 Because I'm describing 2295 00:47:00,708 --> 00:47:01,875 this tokenization world. 2296 00:47:01,875 --> 00:47:01,916 Yeah. 2297 00:47:01,916 --> 00:47:02,458 And I hope that 2298 00:47:02,458 --> 00:47:05,041 that comes to Bitcoin. 2299 00:47:05,041 --> 00:47:06,125 And like so 2300 00:47:06,125 --> 00:47:07,166 if I even expand 2301 00:47:07,166 --> 00:47:08,916 that a bit further. 2302 00:47:08,916 --> 00:47:09,958 So I would love to see 2303 00:47:09,958 --> 00:47:10,500 a world 2304 00:47:10,500 --> 00:47:12,333 where the construct 2305 00:47:12,333 --> 00:47:13,708 of an organization 2306 00:47:13,708 --> 00:47:15,458 or a corporate charter, 2307 00:47:15,458 --> 00:47:16,416 which is, 2308 00:47:16,416 --> 00:47:17,375 I mean, still largely 2309 00:47:17,375 --> 00:47:18,500 based off of the East 2310 00:47:18,500 --> 00:47:19,708 India Company, 2311 00:47:19,708 --> 00:47:21,291 back from like the, 2312 00:47:21,291 --> 00:47:22,750 15, 1600s. Right. 2313 00:47:22,750 --> 00:47:23,125 If you 2314 00:47:23,125 --> 00:47:24,291 I would like to add 2315 00:47:24,291 --> 00:47:26,125 a 10th of a ship. 2316 00:47:26,125 --> 00:47:26,958 You. Exactly. 2317 00:47:26,958 --> 00:47:27,750 You're only a 10th 2318 00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:28,750 when one ship sunk. 2319 00:47:28,750 --> 00:47:30,083 Yes, exactly. 2320 00:47:30,083 --> 00:47:31,458 Like I would like to see 2321 00:47:31,458 --> 00:47:32,625 what the construct 2322 00:47:32,625 --> 00:47:33,541 of an organization 2323 00:47:33,541 --> 00:47:35,208 is from a 2324 00:47:35,208 --> 00:47:36,291 theoretical as well 2325 00:47:36,291 --> 00:47:37,708 as from a legal perspective, 2326 00:47:37,708 --> 00:47:39,666 changed entirely. 2327 00:47:39,666 --> 00:47:40,708 And really be 2328 00:47:40,708 --> 00:47:42,375 a community driven thing, 2329 00:47:42,375 --> 00:47:43,583 which for a little bit, 2330 00:47:43,583 --> 00:47:44,000 it looked like 2331 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,083 ICOs might have been 2332 00:47:45,083 --> 00:47:46,666 a way to solve that, but hey, 2333 00:47:46,666 --> 00:47:47,833 then that all went to shit. 2334 00:47:47,833 --> 00:47:49,791 So at this, 2335 00:47:49,791 --> 00:47:50,583 okay, like in crypto, 2336 00:47:50,583 --> 00:47:51,375 we create something 2337 00:47:51,375 --> 00:47:51,750 that could be 2338 00:47:51,750 --> 00:47:52,916 a technological innovation 2339 00:47:52,916 --> 00:47:53,333 and we end up 2340 00:47:53,333 --> 00:47:54,375 screwing it up anyway. 2341 00:47:54,375 --> 00:47:55,000 But I guess that's 2342 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:56,166 because to your point, 2343 00:47:56,166 --> 00:47:57,000 it's all bullshit. 2344 00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,291 It's all scammers anyway. 2345 00:47:58,291 --> 00:47:59,458 Yeah. 2346 00:47:59,458 --> 00:48:00,583 So in that hope. 2347 00:48:00,583 --> 00:48:00,791 So. 2348 00:48:00,791 --> 00:48:01,375 That's why 2349 00:48:01,375 --> 00:48:02,541 it's all boils down 2350 00:48:02,541 --> 00:48:03,083 to the double 2351 00:48:03,083 --> 00:48:04,208 spending problem. 2352 00:48:04,208 --> 00:48:06,416 You can double spend crypto. 2353 00:48:06,416 --> 00:48:07,250 So therefore 2354 00:48:07,250 --> 00:48:08,500 the double spending problem 2355 00:48:08,500 --> 00:48:09,416 is like 2356 00:48:09,416 --> 00:48:10,500 at the very nature 2357 00:48:10,500 --> 00:48:11,125 of the double 2358 00:48:11,125 --> 00:48:13,333 spending problem is of such 2359 00:48:13,333 --> 00:48:14,458 as like 2360 00:48:14,458 --> 00:48:15,291 that it can only 2361 00:48:15,291 --> 00:48:16,625 be solved once 2362 00:48:16,625 --> 00:48:18,000 if you really think about it. 2363 00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:19,541 If you can solve the double 2364 00:48:19,541 --> 00:48:21,416 spending problem twice, 2365 00:48:21,416 --> 00:48:22,416 you haven't solved 2366 00:48:22,416 --> 00:48:24,500 the double spending problem. 2367 00:48:24,500 --> 00:48:24,958 It's a cult. 2368 00:48:24,958 --> 00:48:25,708 So how do you have 2369 00:48:25,708 --> 00:48:27,375 a copy of a copy? 2370 00:48:27,375 --> 00:48:28,250 So it's 2371 00:48:28,250 --> 00:48:29,708 so hard to resolve the. 2372 00:48:29,708 --> 00:48:30,541 So how do you solve 2373 00:48:30,541 --> 00:48:30,958 the double 2374 00:48:30,958 --> 00:48:32,041 spending problem 2375 00:48:32,041 --> 00:48:32,958 for investments 2376 00:48:32,958 --> 00:48:34,250 in financial instruments? 2377 00:48:34,250 --> 00:48:36,625 And the answer I have like 2378 00:48:36,625 --> 00:48:38,041 in the current system, 2379 00:48:38,041 --> 00:48:39,375 a blockchain adds 2380 00:48:39,375 --> 00:48:40,791 absolutely fuck gold 2381 00:48:40,791 --> 00:48:42,083 because it doesn't provide 2382 00:48:42,083 --> 00:48:43,625 any additional security. 2383 00:48:43,625 --> 00:48:45,083 I just don't buy that it's 2384 00:48:45,083 --> 00:48:46,041 you still rely 2385 00:48:46,041 --> 00:48:46,875 on a third party, 2386 00:48:46,875 --> 00:48:47,833 and you might as well 2387 00:48:47,833 --> 00:48:48,958 rely on the judge 2388 00:48:48,958 --> 00:48:49,458 that you're 2389 00:48:49,458 --> 00:48:50,541 relying on anyway, 2390 00:48:50,541 --> 00:48:52,208 when the crypto 2391 00:48:52,208 --> 00:48:53,333 bullshit you attached 2392 00:48:53,333 --> 00:48:54,125 your equity to 2393 00:48:54,125 --> 00:48:55,125 it goes to shit. 2394 00:48:55,125 --> 00:48:57,000 So I don't think that adds 2395 00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:58,250 anything of value. 2396 00:48:58,250 --> 00:48:59,916 It's just buzzwords and code. 2397 00:48:59,916 --> 00:49:01,916 So in my opinion, 2398 00:49:01,916 --> 00:49:03,208 having said that, 2399 00:49:03,208 --> 00:49:04,041 you asked 2400 00:49:04,041 --> 00:49:05,458 what happens with equities 2401 00:49:05,458 --> 00:49:06,458 and stocks and bonds 2402 00:49:06,458 --> 00:49:07,416 in a hyper 2403 00:49:07,416 --> 00:49:08,583 bitcoin ized world. 2404 00:49:08,583 --> 00:49:10,916 And I foresee that as like 2405 00:49:10,916 --> 00:49:11,916 being more 2406 00:49:11,916 --> 00:49:13,041 and more unnecessary. 2407 00:49:13,041 --> 00:49:14,000 So you'll have 2408 00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:15,333 like the way I see it 2409 00:49:15,333 --> 00:49:16,208 is that the 2410 00:49:16,208 --> 00:49:18,041 so-called financial sector, 2411 00:49:19,041 --> 00:49:20,250 developed in parallel 2412 00:49:20,250 --> 00:49:21,125 with the printing 2413 00:49:21,125 --> 00:49:22,000 of more money 2414 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:23,458 and now it owns the world. 2415 00:49:23,458 --> 00:49:24,291 Everything is in the 2416 00:49:24,291 --> 00:49:25,208 financial sector. 2417 00:49:25,208 --> 00:49:26,416 And this is not a good thing. 2418 00:49:26,416 --> 00:49:27,833 This is a bad thing. 2419 00:49:27,833 --> 00:49:29,333 And on on a pure 2420 00:49:29,333 --> 00:49:30,750 Bitcoin standard. 2421 00:49:30,750 --> 00:49:31,833 And I know this because I'm 2422 00:49:31,833 --> 00:49:32,500 in these 2423 00:49:32,500 --> 00:49:33,875 types of groups already. 2424 00:49:33,875 --> 00:49:35,125 You can run a company 2425 00:49:35,125 --> 00:49:37,333 without any friction at all. 2426 00:49:37,333 --> 00:49:40,333 You can just have okay, 2427 00:49:41,208 --> 00:49:42,958 three guys in a basement, 2428 00:49:42,958 --> 00:49:44,375 we, we get a third 2429 00:49:44,375 --> 00:49:45,291 each of whatever 2430 00:49:45,291 --> 00:49:46,166 this company makes. 2431 00:49:46,166 --> 00:49:47,333 And it doesn't have to be 2432 00:49:47,333 --> 00:49:48,500 more than a telegram group. 2433 00:49:48,500 --> 00:49:49,041 You don't have to 2434 00:49:49,041 --> 00:49:50,125 do any accounting. 2435 00:49:50,125 --> 00:49:50,625 You don't have 2436 00:49:50,625 --> 00:49:51,333 to do anything. 2437 00:49:51,333 --> 00:49:51,750 You can be 2438 00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:53,083 completely sovereign 2439 00:49:53,083 --> 00:49:54,208 and just have the funds 2440 00:49:54,208 --> 00:49:55,083 of whatever you sell 2441 00:49:55,083 --> 00:49:56,583 directly, directed 2442 00:49:56,583 --> 00:49:58,208 directly to you. 2443 00:49:58,208 --> 00:49:59,083 So all of these 2444 00:49:59,083 --> 00:50:00,500 other layers, like, 2445 00:50:01,875 --> 00:50:04,041 legal entities and what, 2446 00:50:04,041 --> 00:50:06,291 what I like to call, 2447 00:50:06,291 --> 00:50:07,291 to quote my good friend 2448 00:50:07,291 --> 00:50:08,083 Dave Bradley, 2449 00:50:08,083 --> 00:50:11,083 lubrication companies, like, 2450 00:50:11,250 --> 00:50:12,250 what, what, 2451 00:50:12,250 --> 00:50:12,875 a company 2452 00:50:12,875 --> 00:50:13,875 like Deloitte 2453 00:50:13,875 --> 00:50:14,416 or something 2454 00:50:14,416 --> 00:50:15,291 is actually doing 2455 00:50:15,291 --> 00:50:17,375 or any like, legal 2456 00:50:17,375 --> 00:50:18,666 that helps you with 2457 00:50:18,666 --> 00:50:19,708 one government 2458 00:50:19,708 --> 00:50:20,833 because this is, 2459 00:50:20,833 --> 00:50:21,583 this is an interesting 2460 00:50:21,583 --> 00:50:22,375 thought process. 2461 00:50:22,375 --> 00:50:25,416 So you have this company 2462 00:50:25,416 --> 00:50:26,000 with your three 2463 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,041 friends, right? 2464 00:50:28,041 --> 00:50:31,791 How do you verify that 2465 00:50:32,333 --> 00:50:33,333 each and every single 2466 00:50:33,333 --> 00:50:33,791 one of you 2467 00:50:33,791 --> 00:50:35,375 is entitled to one third 2468 00:50:35,375 --> 00:50:37,791 of the revenue or the profit 2469 00:50:37,791 --> 00:50:39,125 from that company with you 2470 00:50:39,125 --> 00:50:39,416 because you 2471 00:50:39,416 --> 00:50:40,208 don't have a 2472 00:50:40,208 --> 00:50:43,208 legal entity right? 2473 00:50:43,250 --> 00:50:45,541 Oh, well, 2474 00:50:45,541 --> 00:50:46,041 because at the end 2475 00:50:46,041 --> 00:50:46,666 of the day, you 2476 00:50:46,666 --> 00:50:47,375 at the end of the day, 2477 00:50:47,375 --> 00:50:47,750 you're going to have 2478 00:50:47,750 --> 00:50:49,333 to trust one another or trust 2479 00:50:49,333 --> 00:50:50,333 whoever is 2480 00:50:50,333 --> 00:50:51,416 managing the books, 2481 00:50:51,416 --> 00:50:51,750 or you say 2482 00:50:51,750 --> 00:50:52,583 there is no accounting, 2483 00:50:52,583 --> 00:50:52,958 but you're going to 2484 00:50:52,958 --> 00:50:54,166 have to trust. 2485 00:50:54,166 --> 00:50:54,958 There has to be revenue 2486 00:50:54,958 --> 00:50:56,666 coming from somewhere, 2487 00:50:56,666 --> 00:50:58,250 denominated in some currency. 2488 00:50:58,250 --> 00:50:58,833 Obviously, it's 2489 00:50:58,833 --> 00:50:59,541 probably Bitcoin 2490 00:50:59,541 --> 00:51:00,375 in this scenario. 2491 00:51:00,375 --> 00:51:00,625 Well, 2492 00:51:00,625 --> 00:51:01,083 if you have 2493 00:51:01,083 --> 00:51:02,125 open source software 2494 00:51:02,125 --> 00:51:03,333 and you write the website, 2495 00:51:03,333 --> 00:51:04,166 you're selling stuff 2496 00:51:04,166 --> 00:51:05,541 from yourself 2497 00:51:05,541 --> 00:51:07,041 or like just set up 2498 00:51:07,041 --> 00:51:08,250 a Bitcoin server 2499 00:51:08,250 --> 00:51:09,291 and have that direct 2500 00:51:09,291 --> 00:51:11,208 the sets three ways, 2501 00:51:11,208 --> 00:51:14,041 then then no, no further 2502 00:51:14,041 --> 00:51:15,083 trust is needed 2503 00:51:15,083 --> 00:51:15,833 because you can 2504 00:51:15,833 --> 00:51:16,916 you can verify it 2505 00:51:16,916 --> 00:51:18,083 for yourself. 2506 00:51:18,083 --> 00:51:19,250 It's like how are 2507 00:51:19,250 --> 00:51:20,875 our expenses covered? 2508 00:51:20,875 --> 00:51:22,500 And who is, 2509 00:51:22,500 --> 00:51:23,458 paying for the expenses 2510 00:51:23,458 --> 00:51:24,416 for the AWS 2511 00:51:24,416 --> 00:51:25,791 or whatever hosting service 2512 00:51:25,791 --> 00:51:26,458 you're using for your 2513 00:51:26,458 --> 00:51:27,083 in the same way 2514 00:51:27,083 --> 00:51:27,708 I mean, 2515 00:51:27,708 --> 00:51:29,541 I don't believe in 2516 00:51:29,541 --> 00:51:30,125 totally 2517 00:51:30,125 --> 00:51:31,500 decentralized companies. 2518 00:51:31,500 --> 00:51:33,083 I do believe in hierarchies. 2519 00:51:33,083 --> 00:51:33,916 I think there's nothing 2520 00:51:33,916 --> 00:51:34,416 inherently 2521 00:51:34,416 --> 00:51:35,500 wrong with hierarchy. 2522 00:51:35,500 --> 00:51:36,291 So so like 2523 00:51:36,291 --> 00:51:37,125 like I said before, 2524 00:51:37,125 --> 00:51:38,333 I think decentralization 2525 00:51:38,333 --> 00:51:39,958 is a unfortunate 2526 00:51:39,958 --> 00:51:41,083 means to a greater end, 2527 00:51:41,083 --> 00:51:43,083 which is sound money, 2528 00:51:43,083 --> 00:51:43,666 because if you 2529 00:51:43,666 --> 00:51:44,458 have some money, 2530 00:51:44,458 --> 00:51:44,875 you can do 2531 00:51:44,875 --> 00:51:45,625 all the other stuff. 2532 00:51:45,625 --> 00:51:46,958 And, and what do you say 2533 00:51:46,958 --> 00:51:48,541 about legal, 2534 00:51:48,541 --> 00:51:49,583 the legal stuff, 2535 00:51:49,583 --> 00:51:51,000 like who owns what to whom? 2536 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:51,666 Like, yeah, 2537 00:51:51,666 --> 00:51:52,958 I still believe in contracts 2538 00:51:52,958 --> 00:51:53,333 and needs. 2539 00:51:53,333 --> 00:51:54,208 You should uphold 2540 00:51:54,208 --> 00:51:54,875 your contract. 2541 00:51:56,041 --> 00:51:58,166 Got it. 2542 00:51:58,166 --> 00:51:59,333 What we're doing now 2543 00:51:59,333 --> 00:51:59,666 is that 2544 00:51:59,666 --> 00:52:01,583 we're outsourcing legal, 2545 00:52:01,583 --> 00:52:02,541 whether we want it 2546 00:52:02,541 --> 00:52:04,041 or not, to an entity 2547 00:52:04,041 --> 00:52:05,125 that takes our stuff, 2548 00:52:05,125 --> 00:52:06,583 namely the state. 2549 00:52:06,583 --> 00:52:08,208 Like so we've outsourced 2550 00:52:08,208 --> 00:52:09,541 everything legal 2551 00:52:09,541 --> 00:52:10,291 to an entity 2552 00:52:10,291 --> 00:52:13,250 that is inherently criminal. 2553 00:52:13,250 --> 00:52:15,708 So so so and if so. 2554 00:52:15,708 --> 00:52:16,250 So those 2555 00:52:16,250 --> 00:52:16,833 lawyers are 2556 00:52:16,833 --> 00:52:17,750 obviously criminals. 2557 00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:18,541 I couldn't agree with you. 2558 00:52:18,541 --> 00:52:19,166 No, but 2559 00:52:19,166 --> 00:52:20,333 this is where 2560 00:52:20,333 --> 00:52:20,875 where we get 2561 00:52:20,875 --> 00:52:22,791 into libertarian, 2562 00:52:22,791 --> 00:52:25,041 ethical and moral philosophy. 2563 00:52:25,041 --> 00:52:25,500 Right. 2564 00:52:25,500 --> 00:52:26,750 What what is okay 2565 00:52:26,750 --> 00:52:28,083 and what is not okay. 2566 00:52:28,083 --> 00:52:30,208 And there are already 2567 00:52:30,208 --> 00:52:31,375 entities out there 2568 00:52:31,375 --> 00:52:33,750 that are trying to, 2569 00:52:33,750 --> 00:52:34,333 like, like 2570 00:52:34,333 --> 00:52:35,375 they are giving 2571 00:52:35,375 --> 00:52:36,125 people options 2572 00:52:36,125 --> 00:52:36,750 so they 2573 00:52:36,750 --> 00:52:37,916 so you can employ 2574 00:52:37,916 --> 00:52:40,375 a libertarian legal, 2575 00:52:40,375 --> 00:52:41,875 firm to say that. 2576 00:52:41,875 --> 00:52:42,291 Okay, 2577 00:52:42,291 --> 00:52:43,041 I have a contract 2578 00:52:43,041 --> 00:52:43,791 with this person. 2579 00:52:43,791 --> 00:52:44,291 And if there's 2580 00:52:44,291 --> 00:52:45,166 ever a dispute, 2581 00:52:45,166 --> 00:52:46,333 I want you to solve it. 2582 00:52:46,333 --> 00:52:47,166 And not whoever 2583 00:52:47,166 --> 00:52:48,000 the government tells 2584 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:49,541 me I should use. You know, 2585 00:52:50,750 --> 00:52:51,416 these companies 2586 00:52:51,416 --> 00:52:52,291 already exist, 2587 00:52:52,291 --> 00:52:53,541 and I think they will be more 2588 00:52:53,541 --> 00:52:54,291 and more popular 2589 00:52:54,291 --> 00:52:55,250 in the future. 2590 00:52:55,250 --> 00:52:57,041 When when people like. 2591 00:52:57,041 --> 00:52:57,958 Because Bitcoin 2592 00:52:57,958 --> 00:52:59,166 inevitably puts 2593 00:52:59,166 --> 00:53:00,125 people on the path 2594 00:53:00,125 --> 00:53:02,000 to understanding 2595 00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:03,083 Austrian economics 2596 00:53:03,083 --> 00:53:05,125 and libertarianism. 2597 00:53:05,125 --> 00:53:06,833 And give them this lens 2598 00:53:06,833 --> 00:53:07,958 to view the world. Why? 2599 00:53:07,958 --> 00:53:08,958 Because what, 2600 00:53:08,958 --> 00:53:10,250 if anything, Bitcoin 2601 00:53:10,250 --> 00:53:11,291 has taught us 2602 00:53:11,291 --> 00:53:12,833 how much we're being scammed 2603 00:53:12,833 --> 00:53:14,333 by the legacy system, 2604 00:53:14,333 --> 00:53:15,083 how much we're being 2605 00:53:15,083 --> 00:53:16,208 scammed by inflation 2606 00:53:16,208 --> 00:53:17,333 and by if 2607 00:53:17,333 --> 00:53:18,750 if someone can print money, 2608 00:53:18,750 --> 00:53:19,791 then why the fuck do we have 2609 00:53:19,791 --> 00:53:20,500 laws at all? 2610 00:53:20,500 --> 00:53:21,416 Like everyone's 2611 00:53:21,416 --> 00:53:22,041 being stolen 2612 00:53:22,041 --> 00:53:22,958 from at all times. 2613 00:53:22,958 --> 00:53:23,875 And if you denominate 2614 00:53:23,875 --> 00:53:24,375 in Bitcoin, 2615 00:53:24,375 --> 00:53:25,125 you can see that 2616 00:53:25,125 --> 00:53:26,375 all prices can 2617 00:53:26,375 --> 00:53:27,416 and ought to 2618 00:53:27,416 --> 00:53:28,708 to decrease over time, 2619 00:53:28,708 --> 00:53:29,250 and everyone 2620 00:53:29,250 --> 00:53:30,375 gets more wealthy 2621 00:53:30,375 --> 00:53:31,208 without it 2622 00:53:31,208 --> 00:53:31,916 having to be 2623 00:53:31,916 --> 00:53:33,708 at the expense of a 2624 00:53:33,708 --> 00:53:34,500 of a third guy. 2625 00:53:34,500 --> 00:53:36,208 Like we can all get wealthier 2626 00:53:36,208 --> 00:53:38,125 and it's it's super easy. 2627 00:53:38,125 --> 00:53:39,000 It's just 2628 00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,166 limit the money supply. 2629 00:53:41,333 --> 00:53:42,458 Oh, I agree entirely. 2630 00:53:42,458 --> 00:53:43,083 And that's 2631 00:53:43,083 --> 00:53:45,208 where I think Bitcoin is 2632 00:53:45,208 --> 00:53:46,333 as perfect. 2633 00:53:46,333 --> 00:53:47,458 I mean, I, 2634 00:53:47,458 --> 00:53:48,166 I mean I couldn't 2635 00:53:48,166 --> 00:53:48,666 have conceived 2636 00:53:48,666 --> 00:53:50,125 of bitcoin 20 years ago. 2637 00:53:50,125 --> 00:53:51,041 I don't think anybody could. 2638 00:53:51,041 --> 00:53:51,416 That's why 2639 00:53:51,416 --> 00:53:52,875 Satoshi created it. 2640 00:53:52,875 --> 00:53:54,083 I can't conceive of anything 2641 00:53:54,083 --> 00:53:54,833 that will replace 2642 00:53:54,833 --> 00:53:55,916 Bitcoin as the world's 2643 00:53:55,916 --> 00:53:57,041 most perfect 2644 00:53:57,041 --> 00:53:59,000 form of money ever. 2645 00:53:59,000 --> 00:53:59,750 Probably somebody 2646 00:53:59,750 --> 00:54:00,375 that has a 2647 00:54:00,375 --> 00:54:02,416 higher intelligence, 2648 00:54:02,416 --> 00:54:03,791 or I don't know, 2649 00:54:03,791 --> 00:54:04,250 as a fourth 2650 00:54:04,250 --> 00:54:05,458 dimensional traveler 2651 00:54:05,458 --> 00:54:06,083 is going to have to 2652 00:54:06,083 --> 00:54:08,125 think of something, 2653 00:54:08,125 --> 00:54:08,833 completely outside 2654 00:54:08,833 --> 00:54:09,250 of the scope 2655 00:54:09,250 --> 00:54:10,166 of my comprehension. 2656 00:54:10,166 --> 00:54:11,250 I think all of humanity's 2657 00:54:11,250 --> 00:54:13,375 comprehension. Right. 2658 00:54:13,375 --> 00:54:14,041 But that's still, 2659 00:54:14,041 --> 00:54:15,541 at least for me, doesn't 2660 00:54:15,541 --> 00:54:17,750 necessarily solve 2661 00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:19,000 the problems that we do 2662 00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:20,083 see in capital markets 2663 00:54:20,083 --> 00:54:21,083 specifically related 2664 00:54:21,083 --> 00:54:22,708 to, transparency, 2665 00:54:22,708 --> 00:54:24,958 related to inclusivity, 2666 00:54:24,958 --> 00:54:26,500 related to 24 over 2667 00:54:26,500 --> 00:54:27,416 seven access 2668 00:54:27,416 --> 00:54:29,083 to trading facilities, which, 2669 00:54:29,083 --> 00:54:29,416 I mean, 2670 00:54:29,416 --> 00:54:30,125 they only run 9 2671 00:54:30,125 --> 00:54:30,833 to 5 every day, 2672 00:54:30,833 --> 00:54:31,125 which is 2673 00:54:31,125 --> 00:54:32,125 horribly unfortunate. 2674 00:54:33,625 --> 00:54:34,583 I mean, that's why. 2675 00:54:34,583 --> 00:54:35,500 But but 2676 00:54:35,500 --> 00:54:36,500 if you have something 2677 00:54:36,500 --> 00:54:37,500 to sell 2678 00:54:37,500 --> 00:54:38,041 and, you know, 2679 00:54:38,041 --> 00:54:39,083 another Bitcoin, 2680 00:54:39,083 --> 00:54:40,083 you can call that guy 2681 00:54:40,083 --> 00:54:41,625 whenever you want like that. 2682 00:54:41,625 --> 00:54:43,500 Bitcoin is always open. 2683 00:54:43,500 --> 00:54:44,541 Like but what if I want to 2684 00:54:44,541 --> 00:54:45,833 I mean but what if I know 2685 00:54:45,833 --> 00:54:46,791 what if I know somebody 2686 00:54:46,791 --> 00:54:48,500 that has something to sell. 2687 00:54:48,500 --> 00:54:50,166 And I'm a strong believer 2688 00:54:50,166 --> 00:54:51,291 in his vision. 2689 00:54:51,291 --> 00:54:53,000 I'm a strong believer in 2690 00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:54,500 the product that he's created 2691 00:54:54,500 --> 00:54:56,458 and his ability to sell it. 2692 00:54:56,458 --> 00:54:58,000 And I would like to have 2693 00:54:58,000 --> 00:54:59,458 an ownership stake, 2694 00:54:59,458 --> 00:54:59,916 or rather. 2695 00:54:59,916 --> 00:55:00,208 And so 2696 00:55:00,208 --> 00:55:00,916 let's think about like this. 2697 00:55:00,916 --> 00:55:01,375 I don't want to have 2698 00:55:01,375 --> 00:55:02,000 an ownership 2699 00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:03,416 stake in his company 2700 00:55:03,416 --> 00:55:04,750 and the future of equity 2701 00:55:04,750 --> 00:55:07,375 that like, equity. Right. 2702 00:55:07,375 --> 00:55:08,666 But maybe not consider it 2703 00:55:08,666 --> 00:55:10,041 equity, but, 2704 00:55:10,041 --> 00:55:11,250 what was the, 2705 00:55:11,250 --> 00:55:11,958 what did you call it? 2706 00:55:11,958 --> 00:55:13,083 You don't own Bitcoin. 2707 00:55:13,083 --> 00:55:14,125 You possess bitcoin. 2708 00:55:14,125 --> 00:55:15,416 I want 2709 00:55:15,416 --> 00:55:17,666 I want a possession of you 2710 00:55:17,666 --> 00:55:18,750 don't even possess it. 2711 00:55:18,750 --> 00:55:20,125 But anyway, going 2712 00:55:20,125 --> 00:55:21,083 hey, you want 2713 00:55:21,083 --> 00:55:22,208 a part of his company 2714 00:55:22,208 --> 00:55:22,875 like you want to 2715 00:55:22,875 --> 00:55:24,208 part of its company, 2716 00:55:24,208 --> 00:55:25,125 which is an equity. 2717 00:55:25,125 --> 00:55:26,083 And then in that 2718 00:55:26,083 --> 00:55:27,125 bitcoin ization world 2719 00:55:27,125 --> 00:55:29,541 I still can't outside of you 2720 00:55:29,541 --> 00:55:31,250 create some sort of 2721 00:55:31,250 --> 00:55:33,333 automated contractual system 2722 00:55:33,333 --> 00:55:34,750 where I don't believe I 2723 00:55:34,750 --> 00:55:35,708 of the 2724 00:55:35,708 --> 00:55:36,833 I don't believe that either. 2725 00:55:36,833 --> 00:55:37,541 I don't believe in 2726 00:55:37,541 --> 00:55:38,333 smart contracts. 2727 00:55:38,333 --> 00:55:38,750 I think they're 2728 00:55:38,750 --> 00:55:39,666 dumb contracts 2729 00:55:39,666 --> 00:55:40,291 because you're 2730 00:55:40,291 --> 00:55:41,333 still always going, 2731 00:55:41,333 --> 00:55:42,000 oh, you mean the 2732 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:43,000 you mean the wonderful 2733 00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:43,833 if then statements 2734 00:55:43,833 --> 00:55:44,416 that we pretend 2735 00:55:44,416 --> 00:55:45,583 are smart contracts. 2736 00:55:45,583 --> 00:55:46,500 Yeah, exactly. 2737 00:55:46,500 --> 00:55:47,208 And unlike 2738 00:55:47,208 --> 00:55:48,333 as soon as 2739 00:55:48,333 --> 00:55:49,041 as I said 2740 00:55:49,041 --> 00:55:50,000 before, with a set 2741 00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:51,708 being the internal mechanism 2742 00:55:51,708 --> 00:55:52,250 of the system, 2743 00:55:52,250 --> 00:55:53,208 as soon as you attach 2744 00:55:53,208 --> 00:55:53,750 a blockchain 2745 00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:54,291 to something 2746 00:55:54,291 --> 00:55:55,333 in the outer world 2747 00:55:55,333 --> 00:55:57,041 that does something external, 2748 00:55:57,041 --> 00:55:57,750 then it 2749 00:55:57,750 --> 00:55:58,500 then it messes 2750 00:55:58,500 --> 00:55:59,458 with the internal 2751 00:55:59,458 --> 00:56:01,208 incentives of the system. 2752 00:56:01,208 --> 00:56:03,791 So it's just doesn't work 2753 00:56:03,791 --> 00:56:04,375 because you can 2754 00:56:04,375 --> 00:56:05,875 tamper with the outside world 2755 00:56:05,875 --> 00:56:06,375 and whatever 2756 00:56:06,375 --> 00:56:07,125 it's attached to. 2757 00:56:07,125 --> 00:56:08,333 That is why bananas on 2758 00:56:08,333 --> 00:56:08,875 the blockchain 2759 00:56:08,875 --> 00:56:09,541 makes no sense. 2760 00:56:09,541 --> 00:56:10,208 And so on. 2761 00:56:10,208 --> 00:56:11,458 So, 2762 00:56:11,458 --> 00:56:12,416 I remember when I met 2763 00:56:12,416 --> 00:56:13,583 the banana coin guys. 2764 00:56:14,666 --> 00:56:15,833 But anyway, we got 2765 00:56:15,833 --> 00:56:17,291 to answer the last. Yeah. 2766 00:56:17,291 --> 00:56:18,500 So to answer the question 2767 00:56:18,500 --> 00:56:20,125 about the equity, 2768 00:56:20,125 --> 00:56:22,333 I see now, as I said before, 2769 00:56:22,333 --> 00:56:23,916 I see no benefit of adding 2770 00:56:23,916 --> 00:56:25,375 like a token or a blockchain 2771 00:56:25,375 --> 00:56:26,250 or anything like that 2772 00:56:26,250 --> 00:56:26,666 to that, 2773 00:56:26,666 --> 00:56:27,208 because at 2774 00:56:27,208 --> 00:56:28,000 the end of the day, 2775 00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:29,333 a judge is going to decide 2776 00:56:29,333 --> 00:56:30,583 whether the contract 2777 00:56:30,583 --> 00:56:32,041 was upheld or not. 2778 00:56:32,041 --> 00:56:33,500 So I still think equity 2779 00:56:33,500 --> 00:56:34,041 is something 2780 00:56:34,041 --> 00:56:35,333 that we'll have to be 2781 00:56:35,333 --> 00:56:36,625 in a written contract 2782 00:56:36,625 --> 00:56:37,708 between two people. 2783 00:56:37,708 --> 00:56:39,208 What you can do with Bitcoin 2784 00:56:39,208 --> 00:56:40,166 though, is timestamped 2785 00:56:40,166 --> 00:56:40,833 that contract. 2786 00:56:40,833 --> 00:56:42,958 So that's that, that, 2787 00:56:42,958 --> 00:56:44,750 that and you know 2788 00:56:44,750 --> 00:56:45,166 that's 2789 00:56:45,166 --> 00:56:48,166 makes it a tiny bit better. 2790 00:56:49,166 --> 00:56:50,125 Not only a tiny bit 2791 00:56:50,125 --> 00:56:51,083 but quite a bit better 2792 00:56:51,083 --> 00:56:52,208 because you can actually have 2793 00:56:52,208 --> 00:56:53,791 a proper time 2794 00:56:53,791 --> 00:56:54,458 stamp that 2795 00:56:54,458 --> 00:56:55,708 we agreed on this 2796 00:56:55,708 --> 00:56:57,708 at this very moment. 2797 00:56:57,708 --> 00:56:58,791 Yeah. 2798 00:56:58,791 --> 00:56:59,625 So, so that 2799 00:56:59,625 --> 00:57:00,750 I believe it can be used for 2800 00:57:00,750 --> 00:57:01,750 but little else. 2801 00:57:01,750 --> 00:57:03,041 And it doesn't need to, 2802 00:57:03,041 --> 00:57:03,750 because if you 2803 00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:05,125 have perfect money, 2804 00:57:05,125 --> 00:57:06,291 then you can exchange that 2805 00:57:06,291 --> 00:57:07,500 for all of these other stuff 2806 00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:08,000 and people 2807 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:09,375 where this is the 2808 00:57:09,375 --> 00:57:10,875 this is the real tech, 2809 00:57:10,875 --> 00:57:11,958 kicker here. 2810 00:57:11,958 --> 00:57:14,500 Because if if I have bitcoin 2811 00:57:14,500 --> 00:57:16,041 and you have bitcoin, 2812 00:57:16,041 --> 00:57:16,791 you and I are 2813 00:57:16,791 --> 00:57:18,125 both incentivized 2814 00:57:18,125 --> 00:57:19,666 to help each other 2815 00:57:19,666 --> 00:57:21,208 succeed in life 2816 00:57:21,208 --> 00:57:22,250 because we know that 2817 00:57:22,250 --> 00:57:23,125 if I know that 2818 00:57:23,125 --> 00:57:23,958 if you succeed, 2819 00:57:23,958 --> 00:57:24,875 you make more money 2820 00:57:24,875 --> 00:57:26,208 and therefore you make 2821 00:57:26,208 --> 00:57:28,166 my money more valuable. 2822 00:57:28,166 --> 00:57:29,416 You see. 2823 00:57:29,416 --> 00:57:30,750 So all Bitcoiners 2824 00:57:30,750 --> 00:57:31,583 are incentivized 2825 00:57:31,583 --> 00:57:32,541 to help one another 2826 00:57:32,541 --> 00:57:33,375 and to to 2827 00:57:33,375 --> 00:57:34,666 with whatever endeavors 2828 00:57:34,666 --> 00:57:35,666 they engage in. 2829 00:57:36,625 --> 00:57:38,875 And at the same time, we, 2830 00:57:38,875 --> 00:57:40,583 So and we're all incentivized 2831 00:57:40,583 --> 00:57:42,833 to help Bitcoin succeed, 2832 00:57:42,833 --> 00:57:43,791 because we know that 2833 00:57:43,791 --> 00:57:44,333 if we do, 2834 00:57:44,333 --> 00:57:44,916 we help other 2835 00:57:44,916 --> 00:57:45,750 Bitcoiners succeed 2836 00:57:45,750 --> 00:57:46,708 because we're part 2837 00:57:46,708 --> 00:57:47,541 of the same system 2838 00:57:47,541 --> 00:57:48,500 with the bitcoins, 2839 00:57:48,500 --> 00:57:49,375 and the Bitcoiners 2840 00:57:49,375 --> 00:57:50,666 are the same entity, 2841 00:57:50,666 --> 00:57:51,958 and which is what 2842 00:57:51,958 --> 00:57:52,500 which is where 2843 00:57:52,500 --> 00:57:53,750 the real mindfuck come 2844 00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:55,416 in, comes in, in my. 2845 00:57:55,416 --> 00:57:56,625 So if I have 2846 00:57:56,625 --> 00:57:57,666 a contract with you 2847 00:57:57,666 --> 00:57:58,166 and I know 2848 00:57:58,166 --> 00:57:59,458 you're another Bitcoin, or 2849 00:57:59,458 --> 00:58:00,916 I have less of an incentive 2850 00:58:00,916 --> 00:58:02,375 to screw you over 2851 00:58:02,375 --> 00:58:03,000 than I did 2852 00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:04,333 on a Fiat standard. 2853 00:58:04,333 --> 00:58:05,208 So I think many 2854 00:58:05,208 --> 00:58:06,333 of these disputes 2855 00:58:06,333 --> 00:58:08,500 and many of these, 2856 00:58:08,500 --> 00:58:09,208 things that you're 2857 00:58:09,208 --> 00:58:10,000 talking about, the 2858 00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:10,708 how can we make it 2859 00:58:10,708 --> 00:58:11,250 more secure. 2860 00:58:11,250 --> 00:58:12,833 And so they come, 2861 00:58:12,833 --> 00:58:14,416 they come with hyper 2862 00:58:14,416 --> 00:58:16,291 bitcoin ization automatically 2863 00:58:16,291 --> 00:58:17,250 because ironically, 2864 00:58:17,250 --> 00:58:18,166 I think there's don't 2865 00:58:18,166 --> 00:58:19,083 trust verify 2866 00:58:19,083 --> 00:58:19,916 what it leads to 2867 00:58:19,916 --> 00:58:20,541 in the long run 2868 00:58:20,541 --> 00:58:21,500 is that people actually 2869 00:58:21,500 --> 00:58:22,666 can trust each other more 2870 00:58:22,666 --> 00:58:23,458 because they know 2871 00:58:23,458 --> 00:58:25,041 that it's expensive 2872 00:58:25,041 --> 00:58:25,791 to try to cheat 2873 00:58:25,791 --> 00:58:26,833 the other guy. 2874 00:58:26,833 --> 00:58:29,250 So it's a utopian. 2875 00:58:29,250 --> 00:58:31,291 But but this is like my long 2876 00:58:31,291 --> 00:58:33,375 term outlook. 2877 00:58:33,375 --> 00:58:35,083 So it's a great outlook. 2878 00:58:35,083 --> 00:58:36,625 And I would love to say that 2879 00:58:36,625 --> 00:58:39,000 we have the ability to fully 2880 00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,250 and exclusively trust 2881 00:58:40,250 --> 00:58:40,916 one another, 2882 00:58:40,916 --> 00:58:41,750 that we trust people. 2883 00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:43,250 And I do think that 2884 00:58:43,250 --> 00:58:44,875 Bitcoiners are more 2885 00:58:44,875 --> 00:58:46,333 trusting of other Bitcoiners 2886 00:58:46,333 --> 00:58:46,875 than they would be 2887 00:58:46,875 --> 00:58:48,083 of anybody else. 2888 00:58:48,083 --> 00:58:48,708 So, for instance, 2889 00:58:48,708 --> 00:58:49,375 when I, 2890 00:58:49,375 --> 00:58:50,291 when I meet a startup 2891 00:58:50,291 --> 00:58:50,916 that's trying 2892 00:58:50,916 --> 00:58:51,583 to build something 2893 00:58:51,583 --> 00:58:52,166 in the Bitcoin 2894 00:58:52,166 --> 00:58:53,166 ecosystem versus 2895 00:58:53,166 --> 00:58:54,125 I get pitched something 2896 00:58:54,125 --> 00:58:55,958 that's being built on Solana, 2897 00:58:55,958 --> 00:58:56,916 I can already speak 2898 00:58:56,916 --> 00:58:58,375 to the morality 2899 00:58:58,375 --> 00:58:59,250 of any of those 2900 00:58:59,250 --> 00:59:00,041 individuals, right? 2901 00:59:00,041 --> 00:59:00,916 I can already speak 2902 00:59:00,916 --> 00:59:01,791 to the intelligence 2903 00:59:01,791 --> 00:59:02,666 of those individuals. 2904 00:59:02,666 --> 00:59:03,541 I trust the people 2905 00:59:03,541 --> 00:59:04,041 that are building 2906 00:59:04,041 --> 00:59:05,250 a Bitcoin more than I would 2907 00:59:05,250 --> 00:59:06,208 in something else. 2908 00:59:06,208 --> 00:59:07,083 Right? Yeah. 2909 00:59:08,166 --> 00:59:10,166 I, for instance, am more 2910 00:59:10,166 --> 00:59:10,708 trustworthy 2911 00:59:10,708 --> 00:59:13,708 working with people that, 2912 00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,166 accept payments in Bitcoin. 2913 00:59:16,166 --> 00:59:17,333 It just makes perfect 2914 00:59:17,333 --> 00:59:18,625 sense to me, right? 2915 00:59:18,625 --> 00:59:19,916 But for me, 2916 00:59:19,916 --> 00:59:20,458 I don't 2917 00:59:20,458 --> 00:59:21,458 necessarily think that 2918 00:59:21,458 --> 00:59:23,125 that still 2919 00:59:23,125 --> 00:59:26,625 solves the issue of ownership 2920 00:59:26,625 --> 00:59:27,208 or what 2921 00:59:27,208 --> 00:59:27,750 we'll call here 2922 00:59:27,750 --> 00:59:30,333 possession rights of 2923 00:59:30,333 --> 00:59:31,250 individual assets 2924 00:59:31,250 --> 00:59:31,791 or equities, 2925 00:59:31,791 --> 00:59:32,750 which as you said, 2926 00:59:32,750 --> 00:59:34,041 are based on contracts. 2927 00:59:34,041 --> 00:59:35,750 Because 2928 00:59:35,750 --> 00:59:36,500 I've been in enough 2929 00:59:36,500 --> 00:59:39,500 disputes over 2930 00:59:39,500 --> 00:59:40,916 liquidations of, 2931 00:59:40,916 --> 00:59:41,750 companies that 2932 00:59:41,750 --> 00:59:42,500 maybe the investment 2933 00:59:42,500 --> 00:59:43,000 just didn't go 2934 00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:43,250 the way 2935 00:59:43,250 --> 00:59:44,416 that they were supposed to. 2936 00:59:44,416 --> 00:59:47,541 Or you have a very activist 2937 00:59:47,541 --> 00:59:48,166 board member 2938 00:59:48,166 --> 00:59:49,291 that sits on the same company 2939 00:59:49,291 --> 00:59:50,541 that you sit on the board of, 2940 00:59:50,541 --> 00:59:52,083 or you have a founding team 2941 00:59:52,083 --> 00:59:53,250 that misappropriated 2942 00:59:53,250 --> 00:59:54,625 elements of assets 2943 00:59:54,625 --> 00:59:56,250 that I've seen other VCs 2944 00:59:56,250 --> 00:59:58,166 and other groups invest into. 2945 00:59:58,166 --> 00:59:59,500 You still do have to have 2946 00:59:59,500 --> 01:00:01,625 that big element of trust. 2947 01:00:01,625 --> 01:00:01,791 Yeah. 2948 01:00:01,791 --> 01:00:02,666 And while I do think 2949 01:00:02,666 --> 01:00:03,750 that your point of in 2950 01:00:03,750 --> 01:00:05,250 a hyper bitcoin world, 2951 01:00:06,208 --> 01:00:07,958 hyper bitcoin a world 2952 01:00:07,958 --> 01:00:09,375 that there is more trust 2953 01:00:09,375 --> 01:00:10,125 that individuals 2954 01:00:10,125 --> 01:00:11,125 can have with each other, 2955 01:00:11,125 --> 01:00:12,625 that is true, 2956 01:00:12,625 --> 01:00:14,666 but it's not unequivocal. 2957 01:00:14,666 --> 01:00:15,875 You still have to have 2958 01:00:15,875 --> 01:00:16,833 trust with each other, 2959 01:00:16,833 --> 01:00:17,750 and there are still going 2960 01:00:17,750 --> 01:00:18,833 to be people out there 2961 01:00:18,833 --> 01:00:20,833 in that hyper bitcoin world 2962 01:00:20,833 --> 01:00:22,166 that are going to fuck other 2963 01:00:22,166 --> 01:00:22,708 people over, 2964 01:00:22,708 --> 01:00:23,125 which is where 2965 01:00:23,125 --> 01:00:24,500 the courts come in. 2966 01:00:24,500 --> 01:00:25,166 Absolutely. 2967 01:00:25,166 --> 01:00:25,958 I agree, 2968 01:00:25,958 --> 01:00:27,833 but my question there is, 2969 01:00:27,833 --> 01:00:28,250 is there 2970 01:00:28,250 --> 01:00:30,125 not a world 2971 01:00:30,125 --> 01:00:31,958 that we can fathom, 2972 01:00:31,958 --> 01:00:33,291 where we don't necessarily 2973 01:00:33,291 --> 01:00:34,375 need the courts 2974 01:00:34,375 --> 01:00:37,250 for those types of disputes 2975 01:00:37,250 --> 01:00:37,750 that we don't 2976 01:00:37,750 --> 01:00:40,166 necessarily need arbitration 2977 01:00:40,166 --> 01:00:41,250 or mitigation 2978 01:00:41,250 --> 01:00:42,416 for certain disputes 2979 01:00:42,416 --> 01:00:43,208 because we're able 2980 01:00:43,208 --> 01:00:44,166 to enact them 2981 01:00:44,166 --> 01:00:45,291 in some capacity 2982 01:00:45,291 --> 01:00:46,541 on the blockchain, 2983 01:00:46,541 --> 01:00:47,458 where, for instance, 2984 01:00:47,458 --> 01:00:50,458 I can definitively show a 2985 01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:51,958 ownership, right, 2986 01:00:51,958 --> 01:00:52,791 a possession, right, 2987 01:00:52,791 --> 01:00:54,125 whatever you want to call it, 2988 01:00:54,125 --> 01:00:55,250 in cash 2989 01:00:55,250 --> 01:00:56,916 flow profit 2990 01:00:56,916 --> 01:00:57,875 from a company 2991 01:00:57,875 --> 01:00:59,791 that I'm invested in. 2992 01:00:59,791 --> 01:01:00,833 Now, maybe that's the 2993 01:01:00,833 --> 01:01:02,000 so I'm maybe taking this 2994 01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:02,958 on the flip side 2995 01:01:02,958 --> 01:01:04,333 to a completely different 2996 01:01:04,333 --> 01:01:06,625 utopian, manner than you are. 2997 01:01:06,625 --> 01:01:07,208 So you're in 2998 01:01:07,208 --> 01:01:08,000 you're living in this 2999 01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:09,208 utopia of people 3000 01:01:09,208 --> 01:01:10,125 will understand 3001 01:01:10,125 --> 01:01:11,083 and trust one another, 3002 01:01:11,083 --> 01:01:12,916 and we can trust that trust. 3003 01:01:12,916 --> 01:01:13,791 I'm on the other side 3004 01:01:13,791 --> 01:01:14,333 going, okay, 3005 01:01:14,333 --> 01:01:15,291 I don't necessarily know 3006 01:01:15,291 --> 01:01:16,375 if I can trust that trust, 3007 01:01:16,375 --> 01:01:18,416 but hey, here's a 3008 01:01:18,416 --> 01:01:20,208 technological utopia 3009 01:01:20,208 --> 01:01:20,916 that allows me 3010 01:01:20,916 --> 01:01:22,416 to not have to trust anybody 3011 01:01:22,416 --> 01:01:24,541 in that financial ecosystem. 3012 01:01:24,541 --> 01:01:25,541 Okay, so 3013 01:01:25,541 --> 01:01:27,000 the answer to that is, 3014 01:01:28,250 --> 01:01:29,541 pretty long, but, 3015 01:01:29,541 --> 01:01:31,041 I'll do the tldr. 3016 01:01:31,041 --> 01:01:31,416 Like, 3017 01:01:31,416 --> 01:01:32,291 like I said before, 3018 01:01:32,291 --> 01:01:33,625 you can already 3019 01:01:33,625 --> 01:01:35,416 choose to use another judge, 3020 01:01:35,416 --> 01:01:36,208 the one that the 3021 01:01:36,208 --> 01:01:37,250 government appointed, 3022 01:01:37,250 --> 01:01:39,166 if you choose to use, 3023 01:01:39,166 --> 01:01:40,750 so a libertarian law firm 3024 01:01:40,750 --> 01:01:42,000 that that allows you 3025 01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:43,791 to settle disputes 3026 01:01:43,791 --> 01:01:44,708 with one another 3027 01:01:44,708 --> 01:01:46,416 without having anyone else 3028 01:01:46,416 --> 01:01:47,750 meddle with them. 3029 01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:50,416 So you can already do that. 3030 01:01:50,416 --> 01:01:52,500 And you could do that. 3031 01:01:52,500 --> 01:01:54,208 You could agree that, okay, 3032 01:01:54,208 --> 01:01:55,791 we're going to use this token 3033 01:01:55,791 --> 01:01:56,708 on this blockchain 3034 01:01:56,708 --> 01:01:58,083 to settle blah, blah, blah. 3035 01:01:58,083 --> 01:01:58,875 What I just want 3036 01:01:58,875 --> 01:02:00,333 to make people aware of 3037 01:02:00,333 --> 01:02:01,375 is that that adds 3038 01:02:01,375 --> 01:02:02,666 absolutely zero 3039 01:02:02,666 --> 01:02:03,208 in terms of 3040 01:02:03,208 --> 01:02:04,916 security of, of or, 3041 01:02:04,916 --> 01:02:06,041 or transparency. 3042 01:02:06,041 --> 01:02:07,166 Since that blockchain 3043 01:02:07,166 --> 01:02:09,000 is inherently centralized. 3044 01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:10,541 Because it's not Bitcoin. 3045 01:02:10,541 --> 01:02:12,208 So it can be tampered with. 3046 01:02:12,208 --> 01:02:13,708 So I would not advise 3047 01:02:13,708 --> 01:02:14,875 people to do that. 3048 01:02:14,875 --> 01:02:15,333 However, 3049 01:02:15,333 --> 01:02:15,958 I have nothing 3050 01:02:15,958 --> 01:02:17,500 morally against people 3051 01:02:17,500 --> 01:02:19,125 making bad decisions 3052 01:02:19,125 --> 01:02:20,541 by their own volition 3053 01:02:20,541 --> 01:02:22,750 and agreeing to stupid stuff 3054 01:02:22,750 --> 01:02:24,083 like go ahead and do that. 3055 01:02:24,083 --> 01:02:24,750 Like go ahead 3056 01:02:24,750 --> 01:02:25,750 and be a hero. Honest. 3057 01:02:25,750 --> 01:02:27,291 If you think that's clever, 3058 01:02:27,291 --> 01:02:28,458 like I don't care 3059 01:02:28,458 --> 01:02:29,541 as long as it doesn't hurt 3060 01:02:29,541 --> 01:02:30,625 anyone else. 3061 01:02:30,625 --> 01:02:33,083 But my role here as like, 3062 01:02:33,083 --> 01:02:34,083 still, I can 3063 01:02:34,083 --> 01:02:36,083 I can tolerate stuff 3064 01:02:36,083 --> 01:02:37,375 but still disagree with it. 3065 01:02:37,375 --> 01:02:38,750 So I don't think 3066 01:02:38,750 --> 01:02:40,083 there should be regulations 3067 01:02:40,083 --> 01:02:42,208 around cryptos or whatever. 3068 01:02:42,208 --> 01:02:44,083 I think people should be 3069 01:02:44,083 --> 01:02:45,708 free to go to the casino 3070 01:02:45,708 --> 01:02:46,958 and lose all their money. 3071 01:02:46,958 --> 01:02:48,208 That should be up to each 3072 01:02:48,208 --> 01:02:50,041 and every individual. 3073 01:02:50,041 --> 01:02:51,208 So I nothing morally 3074 01:02:51,208 --> 01:02:52,208 against that. 3075 01:02:52,208 --> 01:02:53,583 That's being the case. 3076 01:02:53,583 --> 01:02:54,750 What I have something 3077 01:02:54,750 --> 01:02:56,541 morally against is 3078 01:02:56,541 --> 01:02:57,458 is the scammers 3079 01:02:57,458 --> 01:02:58,791 themselves like people 3080 01:02:58,791 --> 01:03:00,416 trying to scam other people. 3081 01:03:00,416 --> 01:03:01,708 And I think anything 3082 01:03:01,708 --> 01:03:02,875 on the blockchain 3083 01:03:02,875 --> 01:03:03,583 that isn't 3084 01:03:03,583 --> 01:03:05,208 the Satoshi is a scam 3085 01:03:05,208 --> 01:03:06,708 by, by its very definition, 3086 01:03:06,708 --> 01:03:08,000 because it's the only chain 3087 01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:09,875 that is decentralized, 3088 01:03:09,875 --> 01:03:10,666 and it's the only 3089 01:03:10,666 --> 01:03:12,583 thing on that chain that has 3090 01:03:12,583 --> 01:03:13,208 that actually 3091 01:03:13,208 --> 01:03:14,333 has anything to do 3092 01:03:14,333 --> 01:03:15,958 with the incentive structure 3093 01:03:15,958 --> 01:03:17,000 of the chain. 3094 01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:18,250 So so that's why 3095 01:03:18,250 --> 01:03:19,541 I'm adamantly 3096 01:03:19,541 --> 01:03:21,500 against every other 3097 01:03:21,500 --> 01:03:23,125 quote unquote use case. 3098 01:03:23,125 --> 01:03:26,125 So I see, like, why not just, 3099 01:03:26,750 --> 01:03:28,375 make your own form of equity? 3100 01:03:28,375 --> 01:03:29,958 Forget about the blockchain 3101 01:03:29,958 --> 01:03:30,500 bullshit. 3102 01:03:30,500 --> 01:03:31,583 Just make your own 3103 01:03:31,583 --> 01:03:32,875 contract and, and 3104 01:03:33,833 --> 01:03:35,166 appoint, 3105 01:03:35,166 --> 01:03:37,500 a lawyer, the, 3106 01:03:37,500 --> 01:03:38,666 a libertarian lawyer. 3107 01:03:38,666 --> 01:03:39,375 The thing is, 3108 01:03:39,375 --> 01:03:42,083 once you sign that contract, 3109 01:03:42,083 --> 01:03:42,916 one party 3110 01:03:42,916 --> 01:03:43,708 could still go 3111 01:03:43,708 --> 01:03:44,708 to the government and say, 3112 01:03:44,708 --> 01:03:45,791 I got screwed over. 3113 01:03:45,791 --> 01:03:46,250 And so 3114 01:03:46,250 --> 01:03:46,875 that's exactly 3115 01:03:46,875 --> 01:03:47,458 what I was going. 3116 01:03:47,458 --> 01:03:48,625 That's that's the point. 3117 01:03:48,625 --> 01:03:50,083 Like, we're still living 3118 01:03:50,083 --> 01:03:50,791 in this world 3119 01:03:50,791 --> 01:03:51,916 where the legacy system 3120 01:03:51,916 --> 01:03:53,250 still exists, 3121 01:03:53,250 --> 01:03:54,208 and it's very 3122 01:03:54,208 --> 01:03:55,250 hard to get around that. 3123 01:03:55,250 --> 01:03:56,083 And I don't think 3124 01:03:56,083 --> 01:03:56,958 a blockchain solves 3125 01:03:56,958 --> 01:03:57,500 any of that, 3126 01:03:57,500 --> 01:03:58,416 because I'm still going 3127 01:03:58,416 --> 01:03:59,458 to have to ask 3128 01:03:59,458 --> 01:04:00,333 at one point 3129 01:04:00,333 --> 01:04:02,000 where I'm super disappointed 3130 01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:02,791 because Vitalik 3131 01:04:02,791 --> 01:04:04,000 took all my money. 3132 01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:04,583 I'm still going 3133 01:04:04,583 --> 01:04:05,208 to have to prove 3134 01:04:05,208 --> 01:04:06,416 that in court, 3135 01:04:06,416 --> 01:04:07,583 and there's still a judge 3136 01:04:07,583 --> 01:04:08,875 that's going to have to 3137 01:04:08,875 --> 01:04:09,875 to make a verdict. 3138 01:04:09,875 --> 01:04:11,333 As long as I live in a 3139 01:04:11,333 --> 01:04:12,625 in a world where governments 3140 01:04:12,625 --> 01:04:13,708 exist and I have a gun 3141 01:04:13,708 --> 01:04:14,333 to my head, 3142 01:04:14,333 --> 01:04:15,250 every time I don't pay 3143 01:04:15,250 --> 01:04:16,250 my taxes, 3144 01:04:16,250 --> 01:04:17,250 I'm still 3145 01:04:17,250 --> 01:04:18,583 I'm still beholden to them. 3146 01:04:18,583 --> 01:04:19,708 And no blockchain 3147 01:04:19,708 --> 01:04:20,208 in the world 3148 01:04:20,208 --> 01:04:21,666 can fix that problem 3149 01:04:21,666 --> 01:04:22,958 except the time chain, 3150 01:04:22,958 --> 01:04:24,375 which can allow us 3151 01:04:24,375 --> 01:04:25,041 to do 3152 01:04:25,041 --> 01:04:26,250 to go on with our day 3153 01:04:26,250 --> 01:04:27,125 and do our business 3154 01:04:27,125 --> 01:04:29,416 without them having any, 3155 01:04:29,416 --> 01:04:30,416 like, it's a tool. 3156 01:04:30,416 --> 01:04:31,375 That's all Bitcoin is. 3157 01:04:31,375 --> 01:04:32,416 It's a, it's a tool 3158 01:04:32,416 --> 01:04:34,500 for the peaceful revolution. 3159 01:04:34,500 --> 01:04:35,500 A shield against, 3160 01:04:35,500 --> 01:04:36,583 like, its armor 3161 01:04:36,583 --> 01:04:38,708 against this weapon of threat 3162 01:04:38,708 --> 01:04:39,958 that they're using to 3163 01:04:39,958 --> 01:04:41,291 to extort us. 3164 01:04:41,291 --> 01:04:42,458 Like, that's, that's what 3165 01:04:42,458 --> 01:04:43,375 that's how I view it. 3166 01:04:43,375 --> 01:04:46,541 And that's why I don't think 3167 01:04:46,541 --> 01:04:47,666 any other blockchain 3168 01:04:47,666 --> 01:04:48,625 can come 3169 01:04:48,625 --> 01:04:50,375 at the end of the day, help. 3170 01:04:50,375 --> 01:04:52,000 Neither in the short 3171 01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:52,625 term, medium 3172 01:04:52,625 --> 01:04:53,500 term or long term 3173 01:04:53,500 --> 01:04:54,541 with any of this stuff. 3174 01:04:54,541 --> 01:04:56,333 I, I think that it's 3175 01:04:56,333 --> 01:04:57,458 a waste of time 3176 01:04:57,458 --> 01:04:58,458 to go down that road. 3177 01:04:58,458 --> 01:04:59,083 That's, 3178 01:04:59,083 --> 01:04:59,916 because I think it's a 3179 01:04:59,916 --> 01:05:01,458 nothing burger. 3180 01:05:01,458 --> 01:05:02,958 I so I don't disagree 3181 01:05:02,958 --> 01:05:03,416 when it comes 3182 01:05:03,416 --> 01:05:04,625 to all of the other 3183 01:05:04,625 --> 01:05:05,458 layer ones 3184 01:05:05,458 --> 01:05:06,458 or whatever we conceive 3185 01:05:06,458 --> 01:05:07,291 of as blockchains 3186 01:05:07,291 --> 01:05:08,041 and crypto assets 3187 01:05:08,041 --> 01:05:09,458 that exist today. 3188 01:05:09,458 --> 01:05:11,500 I am personally very bullish 3189 01:05:11,500 --> 01:05:13,041 on some of the Bitcoin deltas 3190 01:05:13,041 --> 01:05:13,666 that we're starting 3191 01:05:13,666 --> 01:05:14,583 to see to fruition 3192 01:05:14,583 --> 01:05:15,625 or come to fruition. 3193 01:05:15,625 --> 01:05:18,541 I'm very bullish on tether, 3194 01:05:18,541 --> 01:05:19,500 exploring ways 3195 01:05:19,500 --> 01:05:21,041 that they'll be able to 3196 01:05:21,041 --> 01:05:22,500 leverage elements of Bitcoin 3197 01:05:22,500 --> 01:05:24,458 security and decentralization 3198 01:05:24,458 --> 01:05:25,958 to enable 3199 01:05:25,958 --> 01:05:27,000 tether transactions. 3200 01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:27,791 I would much rather 3201 01:05:27,791 --> 01:05:30,416 see tether exist on Bitcoin 3202 01:05:30,416 --> 01:05:33,500 than on Solana or Tron 3203 01:05:33,500 --> 01:05:34,250 or Ethereum 3204 01:05:34,250 --> 01:05:34,916 or anything like I think. 3205 01:05:34,916 --> 01:05:35,125 I think 3206 01:05:35,125 --> 01:05:35,916 the majority of tether 3207 01:05:35,916 --> 01:05:37,375 is on Tron right now, right? 3208 01:05:37,375 --> 01:05:39,000 And that's probably 3209 01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:39,625 God knows what 3210 01:05:39,625 --> 01:05:40,750 Justin Sun's doing money 3211 01:05:40,750 --> 01:05:42,708 laundering wise, right? 3212 01:05:42,708 --> 01:05:43,875 I would much rather see 3213 01:05:43,875 --> 01:05:46,291 all of this on Bitcoin. 3214 01:05:46,291 --> 01:05:47,333 That's why I'd rather see 3215 01:05:47,333 --> 01:05:48,250 capital markets 3216 01:05:48,250 --> 01:05:49,375 trading on bitcoin 3217 01:05:49,375 --> 01:05:49,958 relative 3218 01:05:49,958 --> 01:05:51,416 to trading on the NYSE 3219 01:05:51,416 --> 01:05:52,916 or on the Nasdaq. 3220 01:05:52,916 --> 01:05:53,625 That's where I would 3221 01:05:53,625 --> 01:05:54,416 rather see 3222 01:05:54,416 --> 01:05:55,500 equity certificates. 3223 01:05:55,500 --> 01:05:55,791 That's where 3224 01:05:55,791 --> 01:05:56,958 I would rather see 3225 01:05:56,958 --> 01:05:58,125 marriage contracts. 3226 01:05:58,125 --> 01:05:58,916 I would rather see 3227 01:05:58,916 --> 01:06:00,416 arbitration and dispute 3228 01:06:00,416 --> 01:06:01,791 resolution enacted 3229 01:06:01,791 --> 01:06:03,125 in a technological way 3230 01:06:03,125 --> 01:06:05,375 on Bitcoin, the same way. 3231 01:06:05,375 --> 01:06:06,250 Layer two 3232 01:06:06,250 --> 01:06:07,708 I agree, if you can do it 3233 01:06:07,708 --> 01:06:08,833 completely on a layer two, 3234 01:06:08,833 --> 01:06:09,750 but not on the base 3235 01:06:09,750 --> 01:06:10,791 layer, like no. 3236 01:06:10,791 --> 01:06:11,250 So that's a 3237 01:06:11,250 --> 01:06:12,000 that's not what I'm speaking. 3238 01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:12,833 I'm not on the base layer. 3239 01:06:12,833 --> 01:06:13,500 I don't think 3240 01:06:13,500 --> 01:06:14,750 you're ever going to 3241 01:06:14,750 --> 01:06:15,208 I mean, we're going 3242 01:06:15,208 --> 01:06:15,833 to have to see 3243 01:06:15,833 --> 01:06:16,500 you would have to see 3244 01:06:16,500 --> 01:06:17,416 so many forks 3245 01:06:17,416 --> 01:06:18,166 of the core code 3246 01:06:18,166 --> 01:06:19,625 to enable that on Bitcoin. 3247 01:06:19,625 --> 01:06:20,791 It would completely destroy 3248 01:06:20,791 --> 01:06:22,416 what Bitcoin is today. 3249 01:06:22,416 --> 01:06:24,125 Bitcoin has to remain 3250 01:06:24,125 --> 01:06:25,916 the money system. 3251 01:06:25,916 --> 01:06:26,500 Yeah. 3252 01:06:26,500 --> 01:06:27,625 It has to remain the world's 3253 01:06:27,625 --> 01:06:29,208 most perfect form of money. 3254 01:06:29,208 --> 01:06:30,416 And then on top of that, 3255 01:06:30,416 --> 01:06:31,375 if you can have layer 3256 01:06:31,375 --> 01:06:33,666 twos that don't sacrifice 3257 01:06:33,666 --> 01:06:35,083 too many of the elements 3258 01:06:35,083 --> 01:06:36,416 of security 3259 01:06:36,416 --> 01:06:37,916 and decentralization, 3260 01:06:37,916 --> 01:06:39,416 but offer utility 3261 01:06:39,416 --> 01:06:40,291 and flexibility 3262 01:06:40,291 --> 01:06:41,458 and scalability. Yeah, 3263 01:06:42,416 --> 01:06:43,625 that's in my world, 3264 01:06:43,625 --> 01:06:44,583 the perfect scenario. 3265 01:06:44,583 --> 01:06:45,125 And I think 3266 01:06:45,125 --> 01:06:46,125 we're going to see over 3267 01:06:46,125 --> 01:06:47,583 the next few years 3268 01:06:47,583 --> 01:06:48,833 that come to fruition. 3269 01:06:48,833 --> 01:06:50,041 I hope it does. 3270 01:06:50,041 --> 01:06:50,666 I think 3271 01:06:50,666 --> 01:06:51,208 because when 3272 01:06:51,208 --> 01:06:53,250 tether talks about, 3273 01:06:53,250 --> 01:06:54,083 tether on Bitcoin, 3274 01:06:54,083 --> 01:06:54,625 they're actually 3275 01:06:54,625 --> 01:06:55,083 talking about 3276 01:06:55,083 --> 01:06:55,916 tether on liquid, 3277 01:06:55,916 --> 01:06:56,333 aren't they? 3278 01:06:56,333 --> 01:06:58,208 Or on lightning somehow. 3279 01:06:58,208 --> 01:06:59,583 So I, I don't know 3280 01:06:59,583 --> 01:07:00,291 that there's a couple 3281 01:07:00,291 --> 01:07:01,416 of protocols. Yeah. 3282 01:07:01,416 --> 01:07:02,208 So I know there's a couple 3283 01:07:02,208 --> 01:07:03,166 of protocols out there 3284 01:07:03,166 --> 01:07:04,458 that tether has 3285 01:07:04,458 --> 01:07:06,708 been working with. Yeah. 3286 01:07:06,708 --> 01:07:08,083 We'll see what happens. 3287 01:07:08,083 --> 01:07:09,083 But I could see it 3288 01:07:09,083 --> 01:07:09,750 being liquid. 3289 01:07:09,750 --> 01:07:12,750 I could see it being, 3290 01:07:12,875 --> 01:07:13,875 and they were talking 3291 01:07:13,875 --> 01:07:15,041 about doing it with taproot. 3292 01:07:15,041 --> 01:07:16,500 I think, at one point 3293 01:07:16,500 --> 01:07:18,041 in time, 3294 01:07:18,041 --> 01:07:18,791 I don't know. We'll see. 3295 01:07:18,791 --> 01:07:19,166 It's it's 3296 01:07:19,166 --> 01:07:19,791 going to be exciting. 3297 01:07:19,791 --> 01:07:19,916 I mean, 3298 01:07:19,916 --> 01:07:21,041 they're able to do that 3299 01:07:21,041 --> 01:07:21,541 liquid. 3300 01:07:21,541 --> 01:07:23,666 Liquid is, like, 3301 01:07:23,666 --> 01:07:24,625 for better or worse. 3302 01:07:24,625 --> 01:07:26,500 I think that's a good 3303 01:07:26,500 --> 01:07:27,166 trade off, 3304 01:07:27,166 --> 01:07:28,208 if any, in the, 3305 01:07:28,208 --> 01:07:29,333 in the coin space. 3306 01:07:29,333 --> 01:07:30,208 Of course it's not. 3307 01:07:30,208 --> 01:07:31,791 It's not liquid. Liquid. 3308 01:07:31,791 --> 01:07:32,666 I don't view 3309 01:07:32,666 --> 01:07:33,625 that as a shit coin. 3310 01:07:33,625 --> 01:07:34,083 I view it 3311 01:07:34,083 --> 01:07:35,375 as, Bitcoin 3312 01:07:35,375 --> 01:07:35,875 with a 3313 01:07:35,875 --> 01:07:38,250 slightly worse security 3314 01:07:38,250 --> 01:07:39,291 or lightning 3315 01:07:39,291 --> 01:07:41,041 with slightly worse security. 3316 01:07:41,041 --> 01:07:42,458 And it's still useful 3317 01:07:42,458 --> 01:07:43,208 to a certain extent. 3318 01:07:43,208 --> 01:07:44,000 I think the 3319 01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:45,875 that you have to start 3320 01:07:45,875 --> 01:07:47,500 thinking in, in layers 3321 01:07:47,500 --> 01:07:48,500 and in, yeah. 3322 01:07:48,500 --> 01:07:49,208 But this, 3323 01:07:49,208 --> 01:07:51,125 this kind of way of getting, 3324 01:07:51,125 --> 01:07:52,791 I don't know where 3325 01:07:52,791 --> 01:07:54,083 I stand on tether 3326 01:07:54,083 --> 01:07:55,250 in the long run being, 3327 01:07:56,208 --> 01:07:58,125 being a good or a bad thing. 3328 01:07:58,125 --> 01:07:58,916 Another reason 3329 01:07:58,916 --> 01:07:59,666 I'm conflicted 3330 01:07:59,666 --> 01:08:00,750 is that I don't know 3331 01:08:00,750 --> 01:08:02,625 if it prolongs the fiat scam 3332 01:08:02,625 --> 01:08:04,708 or if it accelerates hyper 3333 01:08:04,708 --> 01:08:05,625 because it's 3334 01:08:05,625 --> 01:08:07,291 so it absolutely prolongs 3335 01:08:07,291 --> 01:08:08,541 the fiat scam. 3336 01:08:08,541 --> 01:08:10,500 But you and I, 3337 01:08:10,500 --> 01:08:12,000 we come from the western side 3338 01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:12,583 of the world, right? 3339 01:08:12,583 --> 01:08:12,916 We're from 3340 01:08:12,916 --> 01:08:14,500 Western civilization. 3341 01:08:14,500 --> 01:08:15,750 So the way that 3342 01:08:15,750 --> 01:08:16,916 I think about it is. 3343 01:08:16,916 --> 01:08:17,666 Okay, fine. 3344 01:08:17,666 --> 01:08:19,916 Tether for tether, 3345 01:08:19,916 --> 01:08:20,125 at least 3346 01:08:20,125 --> 01:08:21,041 for the United States. 3347 01:08:21,041 --> 01:08:22,916 I think the US government 3348 01:08:22,916 --> 01:08:23,750 should be Tether's 3349 01:08:23,750 --> 01:08:25,041 absolute best friend. 3350 01:08:25,041 --> 01:08:25,916 The reason being 3351 01:08:25,916 --> 01:08:26,666 is that tether, 3352 01:08:26,666 --> 01:08:29,083 because it will create a 3353 01:08:29,083 --> 01:08:30,750 digital transparent 3354 01:08:30,750 --> 01:08:31,708 and on them know 3355 01:08:31,708 --> 01:08:32,208 I transparent. 3356 01:08:32,208 --> 01:08:32,458 I don't want 3357 01:08:32,458 --> 01:08:33,041 to use that word, 3358 01:08:33,041 --> 01:08:33,916 but because it creates 3359 01:08:33,916 --> 01:08:35,000 a digital dollar 3360 01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:37,250 that transpires borders 3361 01:08:37,250 --> 01:08:38,000 and could be used 3362 01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:39,291 by anybody at any point 3363 01:08:39,291 --> 01:08:40,208 anywhere in the world, 3364 01:08:40,208 --> 01:08:41,458 as long as they have a device 3365 01:08:41,458 --> 01:08:42,250 and connectivity 3366 01:08:42,250 --> 01:08:43,500 to the internet. 3367 01:08:43,500 --> 01:08:45,291 Tether is the one true way 3368 01:08:45,291 --> 01:08:46,166 the US dollar, 3369 01:08:46,166 --> 01:08:47,125 I think, can 3370 01:08:47,125 --> 01:08:48,375 continue its position 3371 01:08:48,375 --> 01:08:49,750 as the global fiat 3372 01:08:49,750 --> 01:08:51,625 reserve currency. 3373 01:08:51,625 --> 01:08:52,041 Will it be 3374 01:08:52,041 --> 01:08:53,125 the global reserve currency? 3375 01:08:53,125 --> 01:08:53,833 I hope not, 3376 01:08:53,833 --> 01:08:54,125 I hope 3377 01:08:54,125 --> 01:08:55,583 that does become Bitcoin, 3378 01:08:55,583 --> 01:08:56,625 but as the fiat 3379 01:08:56,625 --> 01:08:57,791 reserve currency 3380 01:08:57,791 --> 01:08:58,791 that people 3381 01:08:58,791 --> 01:08:59,875 from all over the world 3382 01:08:59,875 --> 01:09:01,375 transact in, 3383 01:09:01,375 --> 01:09:02,458 maybe that does 3384 01:09:02,458 --> 01:09:03,375 stick around 3385 01:09:03,375 --> 01:09:04,541 a little bit while longer, 3386 01:09:04,541 --> 01:09:06,583 because tether exists 3387 01:09:06,583 --> 01:09:07,833 now and it will make them 3388 01:09:07,833 --> 01:09:09,208 in the West a powerful. 3389 01:09:09,208 --> 01:09:10,291 Yeah, well, 3390 01:09:10,291 --> 01:09:11,000 it makes America 3391 01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:12,083 even more powerful. 3392 01:09:12,083 --> 01:09:13,041 And I don't think 3393 01:09:13,041 --> 01:09:14,125 the government is smart 3394 01:09:14,125 --> 01:09:15,416 enough to see that. 3395 01:09:15,416 --> 01:09:16,041 But I've been saying 3396 01:09:16,041 --> 01:09:16,833 this for years. 3397 01:09:16,833 --> 01:09:17,541 If you are 3398 01:09:17,541 --> 01:09:18,958 the U.S government, 3399 01:09:18,958 --> 01:09:20,541 you don't go after tether 3400 01:09:20,541 --> 01:09:22,041 and try to arrest the team 3401 01:09:22,041 --> 01:09:22,708 behind tether 3402 01:09:22,708 --> 01:09:23,875 and put them behind bars 3403 01:09:23,875 --> 01:09:25,208 for what you allege is money 3404 01:09:25,208 --> 01:09:25,708 laundering 3405 01:09:25,708 --> 01:09:27,000 or anything like that, 3406 01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:27,916 you thank the 3407 01:09:27,916 --> 01:09:29,250 fuck out of them 3408 01:09:29,250 --> 01:09:30,291 for doing more 3409 01:09:30,291 --> 01:09:31,166 for the benefit 3410 01:09:31,166 --> 01:09:32,416 of the US dollar 3411 01:09:32,416 --> 01:09:33,083 than the government 3412 01:09:33,083 --> 01:09:35,041 has for the last 100 years. 3413 01:09:36,208 --> 01:09:37,166 But we'll see what happens. 3414 01:09:37,166 --> 01:09:39,625 I don't know, 3415 01:09:39,625 --> 01:09:40,958 there's so much 3416 01:09:40,958 --> 01:09:42,000 there's so much comfort 3417 01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:42,875 out there about tether, 3418 01:09:42,875 --> 01:09:45,208 but yeah. So on one hand. 3419 01:09:45,208 --> 01:09:47,666 But here's where 3420 01:09:47,666 --> 01:09:49,500 here's where I like tether. 3421 01:09:49,500 --> 01:09:51,000 It's because you meet people 3422 01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:52,125 from Colombia, 3423 01:09:52,125 --> 01:09:53,375 meet people from Venezuela, 3424 01:09:53,375 --> 01:09:55,041 you meet people from Africa, 3425 01:09:55,041 --> 01:09:56,458 and they don't 3426 01:09:56,458 --> 01:09:58,250 necessarily need Bitcoin. 3427 01:09:58,250 --> 01:09:59,541 They're not there necessarily 3428 01:09:59,541 --> 01:10:01,083 to generate wealth. 3429 01:10:01,083 --> 01:10:02,125 They just want something 3430 01:10:02,125 --> 01:10:02,916 more stable 3431 01:10:02,916 --> 01:10:04,250 than their own currency. 3432 01:10:04,250 --> 01:10:06,500 And the US dollar represents 3433 01:10:06,500 --> 01:10:07,791 that very well for them. 3434 01:10:07,791 --> 01:10:08,250 Like okay, 3435 01:10:08,250 --> 01:10:08,791 you and I can 3436 01:10:08,791 --> 01:10:09,666 have a discussion 3437 01:10:09,666 --> 01:10:10,333 about the merits 3438 01:10:10,333 --> 01:10:11,250 of the US dollar. 3439 01:10:11,250 --> 01:10:11,583 I think 3440 01:10:11,583 --> 01:10:13,166 you and I both hate it. 3441 01:10:13,166 --> 01:10:14,666 But for these people, 3442 01:10:14,666 --> 01:10:15,375 if they're really 3443 01:10:15,375 --> 01:10:16,583 only getting 3444 01:10:16,583 --> 01:10:17,000 I mean, so 3445 01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:18,000 if the U.S government says 3446 01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:19,500 there's 3% inflation 3447 01:10:19,500 --> 01:10:20,583 this year, the truth is it's 3448 01:10:20,583 --> 01:10:21,208 probably more like 3449 01:10:21,208 --> 01:10:22,708 10% inflation. 3450 01:10:22,708 --> 01:10:23,750 But hey, 10% 3451 01:10:23,750 --> 01:10:25,375 inflation is wonderful 3452 01:10:25,375 --> 01:10:26,250 for people 3453 01:10:26,250 --> 01:10:26,541 that live 3454 01:10:26,541 --> 01:10:27,750 in that area of the world, 3455 01:10:27,750 --> 01:10:28,958 which is an awful thing 3456 01:10:28,958 --> 01:10:29,458 to say, 3457 01:10:29,458 --> 01:10:29,750 but it's 3458 01:10:29,750 --> 01:10:31,333 the unfortunate truth. 3459 01:10:31,333 --> 01:10:32,583 But how about deflation? 3460 01:10:32,583 --> 01:10:35,041 Like this is this is why it's 3461 01:10:35,041 --> 01:10:35,583 why I'm 3462 01:10:35,583 --> 01:10:36,750 so conflicted about it. 3463 01:10:36,750 --> 01:10:37,708 Because while 3464 01:10:37,708 --> 01:10:39,375 I also think that the US 3465 01:10:39,375 --> 01:10:41,000 dollar is the least worst 3466 01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:42,375 of the fiat currencies, 3467 01:10:44,250 --> 01:10:46,583 it's still a fucking scam 3468 01:10:46,583 --> 01:10:46,958 like this. 3469 01:10:46,958 --> 01:10:48,375 And these people 3470 01:10:48,375 --> 01:10:49,791 that you're talking about in 3471 01:10:49,791 --> 01:10:51,208 in the poor 3472 01:10:51,208 --> 01:10:52,833 people in poor countries, 3473 01:10:52,833 --> 01:10:53,791 they are the ones 3474 01:10:53,791 --> 01:10:54,500 being scammed 3475 01:10:54,500 --> 01:10:55,791 the most by it, like, 3476 01:10:55,791 --> 01:10:57,000 and, they're, 3477 01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:58,166 and if they all went 3478 01:10:58,166 --> 01:10:59,500 to a Bitcoin standard 3479 01:10:59,500 --> 01:11:01,416 instead of, of going 3480 01:11:01,416 --> 01:11:02,625 via tether 3481 01:11:02,625 --> 01:11:03,916 on to go on to 3482 01:11:03,916 --> 01:11:05,458 a dollar standard first, 3483 01:11:05,458 --> 01:11:06,833 they would all be better off. 3484 01:11:06,833 --> 01:11:08,000 Like everything would work 3485 01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:08,375 better 3486 01:11:08,375 --> 01:11:09,583 if they just adopted 3487 01:11:09,583 --> 01:11:10,583 the because 3488 01:11:10,583 --> 01:11:12,208 Bitcoin standard directly. 3489 01:11:12,208 --> 01:11:12,625 That's why 3490 01:11:12,625 --> 01:11:13,791 El Salvador is booming 3491 01:11:13,791 --> 01:11:14,708 like it's exact. 3492 01:11:14,708 --> 01:11:16,166 Much better for them. 3493 01:11:16,166 --> 01:11:18,041 So so in that sense like 3494 01:11:18,041 --> 01:11:20,208 yeah tether is better than 3495 01:11:20,208 --> 01:11:21,458 all the other shit coins, 3496 01:11:21,458 --> 01:11:22,708 including all the other 3497 01:11:22,708 --> 01:11:23,916 fiat coins, 3498 01:11:23,916 --> 01:11:24,750 including the dollar. 3499 01:11:24,750 --> 01:11:25,583 Because tether 3500 01:11:25,583 --> 01:11:26,375 is digital dollar, 3501 01:11:26,375 --> 01:11:27,166 but Bitcoin is 3502 01:11:27,166 --> 01:11:28,208 still better than tether, 3503 01:11:28,208 --> 01:11:30,375 so like man, oh 100%. 3504 01:11:30,375 --> 01:11:31,625 But this is where, 3505 01:11:31,625 --> 01:11:32,000 this is where 3506 01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:33,833 I'm confused because. 3507 01:11:33,833 --> 01:11:35,375 So for instance, tether, 3508 01:11:35,375 --> 01:11:35,875 they're doing 3509 01:11:35,875 --> 01:11:36,666 their headquarters 3510 01:11:36,666 --> 01:11:38,625 in El Salvador now. Yes. 3511 01:11:38,625 --> 01:11:38,875 Yeah. 3512 01:11:38,875 --> 01:11:40,458 So it's going to be in 3513 01:11:40,458 --> 01:11:41,958 Bitcoin nation. 3514 01:11:41,958 --> 01:11:42,416 Now. 3515 01:11:42,416 --> 01:11:44,250 Even Bukele has kind of said 3516 01:11:44,250 --> 01:11:44,833 and I don't know 3517 01:11:44,833 --> 01:11:46,541 if he was strong armed 3518 01:11:46,541 --> 01:11:47,458 by global powers 3519 01:11:47,458 --> 01:11:48,666 that be into saying this 3520 01:11:48,666 --> 01:11:50,500 or if it's the actual truth. 3521 01:11:50,500 --> 01:11:50,875 For instance, 3522 01:11:50,875 --> 01:11:52,583 I was in El Salvador, 3523 01:11:52,583 --> 01:11:53,458 in January. 3524 01:11:53,458 --> 01:11:55,166 I was there for a conference. 3525 01:11:55,166 --> 01:11:56,250 And what were you at 3526 01:11:56,250 --> 01:11:57,958 the Palm Beach conference? 3527 01:11:57,958 --> 01:11:59,041 No, I wasn't at the plan 3528 01:11:59,041 --> 01:12:00,000 B conference. 3529 01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:00,875 So I didn't 3530 01:12:00,875 --> 01:12:01,708 see you there, though. 3531 01:12:01,708 --> 01:12:02,583 So, like, I was, 3532 01:12:02,583 --> 01:12:04,083 I was there, and, 3533 01:12:04,083 --> 01:12:05,250 Oh, are you. Dude, you're. 3534 01:12:05,250 --> 01:12:05,916 No, I 3535 01:12:05,916 --> 01:12:07,208 just came back a week ago 3536 01:12:08,541 --> 01:12:09,208 now, so I was there 3537 01:12:09,208 --> 01:12:10,875 two weeks earlier. 3538 01:12:10,875 --> 01:12:11,750 Max and Stacy 3539 01:12:11,750 --> 01:12:13,125 were hosting a pseudo. 3540 01:12:13,125 --> 01:12:14,125 Oh, the going conference 3541 01:12:14,125 --> 01:12:14,958 with the golf tournament. 3542 01:12:14,958 --> 01:12:16,583 Yeah, yeah. 3543 01:12:16,583 --> 01:12:17,166 So I played in the 3544 01:12:17,166 --> 01:12:17,791 golf tournament. 3545 01:12:17,791 --> 01:12:18,666 Yeah, yeah, 3546 01:12:18,666 --> 01:12:19,791 I said no to that 3547 01:12:19,791 --> 01:12:21,000 because I don't play golf. 3548 01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:21,958 I was in Colombia 3549 01:12:21,958 --> 01:12:22,750 just before that 3550 01:12:22,750 --> 01:12:24,000 when the golf tournament was, 3551 01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:25,833 I think, wonderful. 3552 01:12:25,833 --> 01:12:26,291 Oh, you should have 3553 01:12:26,291 --> 01:12:26,750 try to play 3554 01:12:26,750 --> 01:12:27,500 in the golf tournament 3555 01:12:27,500 --> 01:12:28,250 if you, 3556 01:12:28,250 --> 01:12:29,875 got a hole in one on the 17th 3557 01:12:29,875 --> 01:12:30,833 or 16th hole, 3558 01:12:30,833 --> 01:12:31,291 you would have won 3559 01:12:31,291 --> 01:12:32,875 one of my bitcoin. 3560 01:12:32,875 --> 01:12:34,708 Oh, I should have been there. 3561 01:12:34,708 --> 01:12:35,208 I was a hole 3562 01:12:35,208 --> 01:12:37,500 in one competition. Exactly. 3563 01:12:37,500 --> 01:12:38,125 But in parallel 3564 01:12:38,125 --> 01:12:39,166 with the golf competition, 3565 01:12:39,166 --> 01:12:39,750 there was actually 3566 01:12:39,750 --> 01:12:40,708 a very good conference. 3567 01:12:40,708 --> 01:12:41,416 I mean, 3568 01:12:41,416 --> 01:12:42,208 I mean, Max, 3569 01:12:42,208 --> 01:12:42,791 you can you 3570 01:12:42,791 --> 01:12:43,750 give Max a microphone? 3571 01:12:43,750 --> 01:12:44,916 He can talk forever. 3572 01:12:44,916 --> 01:12:45,375 Yeah. 3573 01:12:45,375 --> 01:12:47,250 It's, so Mexican up on stage. 3574 01:12:47,250 --> 01:12:48,000 Him and Stacy, 3575 01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:49,166 they were doing, 3576 01:12:49,166 --> 01:12:50,750 like, unconference sessions. 3577 01:12:50,750 --> 01:12:52,708 They had guest speakers, etc. 3578 01:12:52,708 --> 01:12:53,166 and actually 3579 01:12:53,166 --> 01:12:54,541 was a very good intimate 3580 01:12:54,541 --> 01:12:55,541 conference, I think. 3581 01:12:56,750 --> 01:12:58,791 But even then, like, 3582 01:12:58,791 --> 01:12:59,291 we tried 3583 01:12:59,291 --> 01:13:00,083 to pay in Bitcoin 3584 01:13:00,083 --> 01:13:00,958 at certain places 3585 01:13:00,958 --> 01:13:03,958 and it just wasn't possible. 3586 01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:05,000 So I don't think 3587 01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:05,541 the Bitcoin 3588 01:13:05,541 --> 01:13:06,833 experiment is going 3589 01:13:06,833 --> 01:13:08,250 maybe as successfully 3590 01:13:08,250 --> 01:13:09,291 as Bukele 3591 01:13:09,291 --> 01:13:10,083 or even you and 3592 01:13:10,083 --> 01:13:11,125 I would have wanted. 3593 01:13:11,125 --> 01:13:11,500 That's just 3594 01:13:11,500 --> 01:13:13,041 the unfortunate truth. 3595 01:13:13,041 --> 01:13:16,041 And I do think that. 3596 01:13:17,333 --> 01:13:19,166 To get to a digital standard 3597 01:13:19,166 --> 01:13:20,666 tether is a good way 3598 01:13:20,666 --> 01:13:22,375 to help us get there. 3599 01:13:22,375 --> 01:13:25,375 But that does long term hurt. 3600 01:13:25,416 --> 01:13:27,375 Bitcoin's potential or it 3601 01:13:27,375 --> 01:13:28,375 rather it hurts the long 3602 01:13:28,375 --> 01:13:28,958 term potential 3603 01:13:28,958 --> 01:13:29,666 of seeing Bitcoin 3604 01:13:29,666 --> 01:13:31,500 hybridization. Right. 3605 01:13:31,500 --> 01:13:33,333 Because it's a stopgap, 3606 01:13:33,333 --> 01:13:34,500 if you know what I mean. 3607 01:13:34,500 --> 01:13:35,791 Yeah, 3608 01:13:35,791 --> 01:13:38,541 I mean, I yeah, I, 3609 01:13:38,541 --> 01:13:39,916 people told me this before 3610 01:13:39,916 --> 01:13:40,833 I went to El Salvador. 3611 01:13:40,833 --> 01:13:41,833 Don't expect hyper 3612 01:13:41,833 --> 01:13:42,625 bitcoin ization. 3613 01:13:42,625 --> 01:13:43,583 But like 3614 01:13:43,583 --> 01:13:45,208 I was positively surprised 3615 01:13:45,208 --> 01:13:46,375 because I tried to use it 3616 01:13:46,375 --> 01:13:47,208 every here and there. 3617 01:13:47,208 --> 01:13:48,250 Like I was surprised 3618 01:13:48,250 --> 01:13:49,458 that you couldn't use it in 3619 01:13:49,458 --> 01:13:50,500 absolutely all 3620 01:13:50,500 --> 01:13:52,041 places in in Santa. Yeah. 3621 01:13:52,041 --> 01:13:54,041 But almost all, 3622 01:13:54,041 --> 01:13:55,833 but but in San Salvador, 3623 01:13:55,833 --> 01:13:57,208 just went around 3624 01:13:57,208 --> 01:13:58,625 and asked random places 3625 01:13:58,625 --> 01:13:59,666 if they accept bitcoin. 3626 01:13:59,666 --> 01:14:01,083 And to my surprise, 3627 01:14:01,083 --> 01:14:02,458 most of them did so. 3628 01:14:02,458 --> 01:14:03,166 So I think that's 3629 01:14:03,166 --> 01:14:04,041 a double sided coin. 3630 01:14:04,041 --> 01:14:04,625 I think 3631 01:14:04,625 --> 01:14:05,666 it depends a lot on 3632 01:14:05,666 --> 01:14:06,791 what expectations 3633 01:14:06,791 --> 01:14:08,333 you enter the country with. 3634 01:14:08,333 --> 01:14:09,416 And I didn't expect it 3635 01:14:09,416 --> 01:14:10,625 to be hyper bitcoin. Nice. 3636 01:14:10,625 --> 01:14:11,750 But yeah. 3637 01:14:11,750 --> 01:14:12,375 But so 3638 01:14:12,375 --> 01:14:13,583 I was happily surprised 3639 01:14:13,583 --> 01:14:14,541 that everywhere in there 3640 01:14:14,541 --> 01:14:15,083 people started 3641 01:14:15,083 --> 01:14:16,166 accepting people 3642 01:14:16,166 --> 01:14:17,000 accepting bitcoin. 3643 01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:18,875 And in malls and everywhere, 3644 01:14:18,875 --> 01:14:19,166 you know 3645 01:14:19,166 --> 01:14:21,000 so so yeah, I was 3646 01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:22,375 positively surprised by it. 3647 01:14:23,958 --> 01:14:24,916 At the end of the day, if we 3648 01:14:24,916 --> 01:14:25,916 end up in a world 3649 01:14:25,916 --> 01:14:28,916 where there is a 3650 01:14:28,916 --> 01:14:30,625 we see hyper bitcoin ization, 3651 01:14:30,625 --> 01:14:32,958 plus we see a 3652 01:14:32,958 --> 01:14:34,375 reasonably viable 3653 01:14:34,375 --> 01:14:36,458 fiat alternative, 3654 01:14:36,458 --> 01:14:37,333 that's not the worst 3655 01:14:37,333 --> 01:14:38,791 thing in the world. 3656 01:14:38,791 --> 01:14:39,958 Do I want to see everything 3657 01:14:39,958 --> 01:14:41,750 in Bitcoin. Absolutely. 3658 01:14:41,750 --> 01:14:43,166 Is that achievable? 3659 01:14:43,166 --> 01:14:44,333 I think so, 3660 01:14:44,333 --> 01:14:45,750 but there are powers 3661 01:14:45,750 --> 01:14:46,041 that be 3662 01:14:46,041 --> 01:14:46,333 that are going 3663 01:14:46,333 --> 01:14:47,166 to be fighting against that 3664 01:14:47,166 --> 01:14:49,333 for obvious purposes. Right. 3665 01:14:49,333 --> 01:14:50,416 So am I willing 3666 01:14:50,416 --> 01:14:52,458 to settle for a 3667 01:14:52,458 --> 01:14:53,916 digital dollar? 3668 01:14:53,916 --> 01:14:54,500 I mean, as long as it's 3669 01:14:54,500 --> 01:14:55,375 not a Cbdc 3670 01:14:55,375 --> 01:14:56,666 and it's a privately issued 3671 01:14:56,666 --> 01:14:58,916 stablecoin like tether. 3672 01:14:58,916 --> 01:15:00,375 Yeah, I actually think that's 3673 01:15:00,375 --> 01:15:03,375 that's absolutely perfect. 3674 01:15:04,875 --> 01:15:06,000 I don't want to say that 3675 01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:09,000 this is settling, but 3676 01:15:09,166 --> 01:15:11,125 I wouldn't be too upset 3677 01:15:11,125 --> 01:15:12,458 if we saw the world 3678 01:15:12,458 --> 01:15:13,625 transacting in Bitcoin 3679 01:15:13,625 --> 01:15:14,125 end tether, 3680 01:15:14,125 --> 01:15:14,875 let's put it like that. 3681 01:15:14,875 --> 01:15:15,833 Especially if tether 3682 01:15:15,833 --> 01:15:16,958 is secured by Bitcoin. 3683 01:15:19,583 --> 01:15:20,416 Yeah. 3684 01:15:20,416 --> 01:15:22,208 I, 3685 01:15:22,208 --> 01:15:25,208 I agree on most of that and I 3686 01:15:25,625 --> 01:15:26,750 yeah I still want to go 3687 01:15:26,750 --> 01:15:28,666 to these conferences that, 3688 01:15:28,666 --> 01:15:29,583 tether funds. 3689 01:15:29,583 --> 01:15:30,541 So I'm not going to say 3690 01:15:30,541 --> 01:15:32,666 anything more. 3691 01:15:32,666 --> 01:15:34,333 I love plan B in Lugano. 3692 01:15:34,333 --> 01:15:34,791 I didn't make it 3693 01:15:34,791 --> 01:15:35,458 to El Salvador, 3694 01:15:35,458 --> 01:15:35,875 but I love 3695 01:15:35,875 --> 01:15:36,791 the Lugano conference. 3696 01:15:36,791 --> 01:15:37,500 I thought they did 3697 01:15:37,500 --> 01:15:38,583 a phenomenal job there. 3698 01:15:38,583 --> 01:15:39,416 And it's, 3699 01:15:39,416 --> 01:15:40,125 actually interested 3700 01:15:40,125 --> 01:15:40,541 to see what. 3701 01:15:40,541 --> 01:15:41,750 How did we see each other 3702 01:15:41,750 --> 01:15:42,166 there? 3703 01:15:42,166 --> 01:15:42,750 Like, I don't, 3704 01:15:42,750 --> 01:15:44,166 I can't remember. 3705 01:15:44,166 --> 01:15:45,750 Oh, I have no idea. 3706 01:15:45,750 --> 01:15:47,000 I mean, so many people 3707 01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:47,708 at these conferences, 3708 01:15:47,708 --> 01:15:48,500 it's hard to keep track. 3709 01:15:48,500 --> 01:15:49,333 Same here. 3710 01:15:49,333 --> 01:15:49,791 Yeah, but 3711 01:15:49,791 --> 01:15:51,166 we'll we'll have to 3712 01:15:51,166 --> 01:15:51,750 have a chat 3713 01:15:51,750 --> 01:15:52,500 that the next one. 3714 01:15:52,500 --> 01:15:53,333 Are you coming to Prague, 3715 01:15:53,333 --> 01:15:54,666 for instance? 3716 01:15:54,666 --> 01:15:55,583 No. 3717 01:15:55,583 --> 01:15:56,083 Unfortunately, 3718 01:15:56,083 --> 01:15:57,000 I'm not coming to Prague. 3719 01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:58,208 I've been in the month 3720 01:15:58,208 --> 01:15:59,000 of January 3721 01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:00,541 in three conferences 3722 01:16:00,541 --> 01:16:02,208 on three or across 3723 01:16:02,208 --> 01:16:03,916 four continents, actually, 3724 01:16:03,916 --> 01:16:04,291 because I had a 3725 01:16:04,291 --> 01:16:05,666 little layover in Europe. 3726 01:16:05,666 --> 01:16:07,583 So I'm taking the next month 3727 01:16:07,583 --> 01:16:09,708 or two off from traveling. 3728 01:16:09,708 --> 01:16:10,375 All right. 3729 01:16:10,375 --> 01:16:11,666 Need to recuperate 3730 01:16:11,666 --> 01:16:12,541 after the holidays, 3731 01:16:12,541 --> 01:16:14,083 plus three months of, 3732 01:16:14,083 --> 01:16:14,458 a month 3733 01:16:14,458 --> 01:16:16,333 of running around the world. 3734 01:16:16,333 --> 01:16:16,791 All right, 3735 01:16:16,791 --> 01:16:17,666 I'm sure 3736 01:16:17,666 --> 01:16:18,833 we're going to bump into one 3737 01:16:18,833 --> 01:16:19,208 another 3738 01:16:19,208 --> 01:16:20,541 at one of these events. 3739 01:16:20,541 --> 01:16:21,625 Sooner or later. 3740 01:16:21,625 --> 01:16:22,875 But, Patrick, this been. 3741 01:16:22,875 --> 01:16:23,250 Well, hey, 3742 01:16:23,250 --> 01:16:24,083 if you come to 3743 01:16:24,083 --> 01:16:24,958 if you come to Bitcoin. 3744 01:16:24,958 --> 01:16:26,000 Miami, 3745 01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:27,000 we're the title sponsor 3746 01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:27,833 of the Bitcoin Miami 3747 01:16:27,833 --> 01:16:28,541 golf tournament. 3748 01:16:28,541 --> 01:16:29,416 You can try your best 3749 01:16:29,416 --> 01:16:30,250 at winning another bitcoin 3750 01:16:30,250 --> 01:16:32,250 I, I probably, Miami. 3751 01:16:32,250 --> 01:16:33,166 Oh no I'm sorry not bitcoin 3752 01:16:33,166 --> 01:16:34,375 Miami bitcoin Las Vegas 3753 01:16:34,375 --> 01:16:35,041 Vegas this year 3754 01:16:35,041 --> 01:16:35,875 I'm probably not 3755 01:16:35,875 --> 01:16:37,041 going to that 3756 01:16:37,041 --> 01:16:38,291 for several reasons. 3757 01:16:38,291 --> 01:16:39,000 I think that's 3758 01:16:40,250 --> 01:16:42,916 the city coiner fumes are 3759 01:16:42,916 --> 01:16:44,416 starting to smell a bit 3760 01:16:44,416 --> 01:16:46,541 too bad for my taste. 3761 01:16:46,541 --> 01:16:47,875 And I have another conference 3762 01:16:47,875 --> 01:16:49,000 that, is also. 3763 01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:50,041 I'm not going to shit 3764 01:16:50,041 --> 01:16:51,625 on, on on, 3765 01:16:51,625 --> 01:16:52,541 Bitcoin magazine 3766 01:16:52,541 --> 01:16:53,125 too much here 3767 01:16:53,125 --> 01:16:55,333 because I do like events. 3768 01:16:55,333 --> 01:16:56,541 I, I do pretty well 3769 01:16:56,541 --> 01:16:56,875 with them. 3770 01:16:56,875 --> 01:16:57,750 I sometimes wish 3771 01:16:57,750 --> 01:16:58,166 they would have 3772 01:16:58,166 --> 01:16:59,458 made other choices. 3773 01:16:59,458 --> 01:17:01,291 When it comes to like, 3774 01:17:01,291 --> 01:17:02,583 what, what sponsors 3775 01:17:02,583 --> 01:17:05,250 they take in, to me bitcoin. 3776 01:17:05,250 --> 01:17:07,083 Bitcoin first is a shit 3777 01:17:07,083 --> 01:17:07,750 coin company. 3778 01:17:07,750 --> 01:17:09,000 Bitcoin only is a bitcoin 3779 01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:10,000 only company. 3780 01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:11,000 And that's 3781 01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:12,375 what they should focus on. 3782 01:17:12,375 --> 01:17:14,750 But having said that Patrick 3783 01:17:14,750 --> 01:17:16,250 I got to go here. 3784 01:17:16,250 --> 01:17:17,583 So and so I'm sorry for that 3785 01:17:17,583 --> 01:17:18,500 I don't know 3786 01:17:18,500 --> 01:17:20,291 I love this conversation 3787 01:17:20,291 --> 01:17:23,083 and I, I, 3788 01:17:23,083 --> 01:17:23,791 in advance 3789 01:17:23,791 --> 01:17:25,666 I want to apologize 3790 01:17:25,666 --> 01:17:26,541 for for 3791 01:17:26,541 --> 01:17:27,750 putting you against the wall 3792 01:17:27,750 --> 01:17:28,791 and calling you a shit coiner 3793 01:17:28,791 --> 01:17:29,750 and all of that. 3794 01:17:29,750 --> 01:17:31,458 I hope it was enjoyable 3795 01:17:31,458 --> 01:17:32,916 for you, too. 3796 01:17:32,916 --> 01:17:34,041 And, I had 3797 01:17:34,041 --> 01:17:35,000 a great conversation today. 3798 01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:36,708 I always love having. 3799 01:17:36,708 --> 01:17:37,041 You know what? 3800 01:17:37,041 --> 01:17:38,333 Podcasts are not fun 3801 01:17:38,333 --> 01:17:38,958 unless they're 3802 01:17:38,958 --> 01:17:40,583 slightly confrontational. 3803 01:17:40,583 --> 01:17:41,708 If you have two people 3804 01:17:41,708 --> 01:17:42,583 that get together and just 3805 01:17:42,583 --> 01:17:43,708 agree about everything, 3806 01:17:44,958 --> 01:17:45,666 what the fuck are people 3807 01:17:45,666 --> 01:17:46,500 going to tune in 3808 01:17:46,500 --> 01:17:48,000 and listen to? Right. 3809 01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:48,291 A little 3810 01:17:48,291 --> 01:17:48,750 a little bit 3811 01:17:48,750 --> 01:17:49,500 of confrontation, 3812 01:17:49,500 --> 01:17:50,125 a little bit of name 3813 01:17:50,125 --> 01:17:51,833 calling is always a fun time. 3814 01:17:51,833 --> 01:17:53,500 Yeah, I absolutely agree. 3815 01:17:53,500 --> 01:17:55,791 And we should both be lucky, 3816 01:17:55,791 --> 01:17:57,458 that Luke is not here now 3817 01:17:57,458 --> 01:17:58,250 because it wouldn't 3818 01:17:58,250 --> 01:17:59,666 have been as confrontational 3819 01:17:59,666 --> 01:18:00,750 if it was because 3820 01:18:00,750 --> 01:18:01,250 he makes me 3821 01:18:01,250 --> 01:18:03,625 a better diplomat. 3822 01:18:03,625 --> 01:18:06,166 But but, But anyway. 3823 01:18:06,166 --> 01:18:07,666 Thanks. Thanks a lot. 3824 01:18:07,666 --> 01:18:08,541 Is there anywhere 3825 01:18:08,541 --> 01:18:09,291 you want to send 3826 01:18:09,291 --> 01:18:09,958 our listeners? 3827 01:18:09,958 --> 01:18:10,458 Like, 3828 01:18:10,458 --> 01:18:11,541 where can they check out some 3829 01:18:11,541 --> 01:18:12,083 our group 3830 01:18:12,083 --> 01:18:13,041 and what you're doing 3831 01:18:13,041 --> 01:18:14,000 and so on. On the inside. 3832 01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:14,250 I mean, 3833 01:18:14,250 --> 01:18:15,083 you can just check us out 3834 01:18:15,083 --> 01:18:16,916 at Samara Dash Agyekum 3835 01:18:16,916 --> 01:18:17,541 if you want to learn 3836 01:18:17,541 --> 01:18:18,291 more about us. 3837 01:18:18,291 --> 01:18:19,583 The funds were invested in 3838 01:18:19,583 --> 01:18:21,625 and our Bitcoin position. 3839 01:18:21,625 --> 01:18:23,291 I have my own podcast, 3840 01:18:23,291 --> 01:18:24,000 proof of words 3841 01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:24,958 we call it, 3842 01:18:24,958 --> 01:18:25,458 if you want to come 3843 01:18:25,458 --> 01:18:27,041 and listen in to, 3844 01:18:27,041 --> 01:18:27,750 I thought 3845 01:18:27,750 --> 01:18:29,250 it was pretty clever. Right. 3846 01:18:29,250 --> 01:18:30,041 So if you want to come listen 3847 01:18:30,041 --> 01:18:30,750 to the Proof of Words 3848 01:18:30,750 --> 01:18:32,125 podcast, 3849 01:18:32,125 --> 01:18:33,458 just look up proof of words 3850 01:18:33,458 --> 01:18:34,958 on Google or wherever, 3851 01:18:34,958 --> 01:18:36,000 and you can 3852 01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:37,208 tune and listen into us. 3853 01:18:38,750 --> 01:18:39,583 Fantastic. 3854 01:18:39,583 --> 01:18:40,500 So, Patrick, 3855 01:18:40,500 --> 01:18:41,500 thank you very much. 3856 01:18:41,500 --> 01:18:42,666 And thank you very much 3857 01:18:42,666 --> 01:18:44,625 for having me. Life. Yeah. 3858 01:18:44,625 --> 01:18:45,458 Looking forward to it. 3859 01:18:45,458 --> 01:18:46,833 Have a great day. 3860 01:18:46,833 --> 01:18:47,750 You too man. 3861 01:18:47,750 --> 01:18:48,833 This has been the Bitcoin 3862 01:18:48,833 --> 01:18:49,833 Infinity show. 3863 01:18:49,833 --> 01:18:50,750 Thanks for listening.