1 00:00:00,041 --> 00:00:01,500 Any impartial observer can 2 00:00:01,500 --> 00:00:02,250 see about Trump 3 00:00:02,250 --> 00:00:03,000 as he really likes 4 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:03,666 numbers go up 5 00:00:03,666 --> 00:00:05,333 and he likes being credited 6 00:00:05,333 --> 00:00:06,375 for a number going up. 7 00:00:06,375 --> 00:00:07,375 If you're saying that 8 00:00:07,375 --> 00:00:08,458 there will be no large 9 00:00:08,458 --> 00:00:09,791 crashes in Bitcoin 10 00:00:09,791 --> 00:00:10,708 ever again, 11 00:00:10,708 --> 00:00:11,500 you're also saying 12 00:00:11,500 --> 00:00:12,041 that there will be 13 00:00:12,041 --> 00:00:13,750 no periods of mania 14 00:00:13,750 --> 00:00:15,291 with both tops ever again 15 00:00:15,291 --> 00:00:16,708 navigating a bull market. 16 00:00:16,708 --> 00:00:17,541 If you go to the bathroom 17 00:00:17,541 --> 00:00:18,125 for 5 minutes 18 00:00:18,125 --> 00:00:19,166 or 3 minutes or whatever, 19 00:00:19,166 --> 00:00:20,000 you might come back 20 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:21,250 and there'll be another 4 21 00:00:21,250 --> 00:00:22,708 or $5 million of exposure 22 00:00:22,708 --> 00:00:23,541 to your position. 23 00:00:23,541 --> 00:00:24,291 I just hope more 24 00:00:24,291 --> 00:00:25,583 and more people realize 25 00:00:25,583 --> 00:00:27,250 that there is a way to save. 26 00:00:27,250 --> 00:00:28,166 Now that doesn't require 27 00:00:28,166 --> 00:00:29,375 being a hedge fund manager. 28 00:00:29,375 --> 00:00:31,041 Savings is the thing, 29 00:00:31,041 --> 00:00:32,166 and that is what Fiat 30 00:00:32,166 --> 00:00:33,791 has destroyed, to the point 31 00:00:33,791 --> 00:00:35,125 where everyone's a gambler. 32 00:00:35,125 --> 00:00:36,333 And now I realize that 33 00:00:36,333 --> 00:00:38,333 almost all of sports 34 00:00:38,333 --> 00:00:39,500 is fueled by gambling 35 00:00:39,500 --> 00:00:40,416 almost exclusively. 36 00:00:40,416 --> 00:00:41,125 Like all the media 37 00:00:41,125 --> 00:00:42,833 content is not about what's 38 00:00:42,833 --> 00:00:43,500 this interesting, 39 00:00:43,500 --> 00:00:44,250 in-depth interview 40 00:00:44,250 --> 00:00:45,041 about this athlete 41 00:00:45,041 --> 00:00:45,625 as a person? 42 00:00:45,625 --> 00:00:46,083 No, it's like 43 00:00:46,083 --> 00:00:47,083 the injury report 44 00:00:47,083 --> 00:00:47,791 so that somebody 45 00:00:47,791 --> 00:00:49,166 can change their fantasy 46 00:00:49,166 --> 00:00:49,958 football lineup. 47 00:00:49,958 --> 00:00:50,625 There's only 48 00:00:50,625 --> 00:00:52,750 one entity on the planet 49 00:00:52,750 --> 00:00:54,416 that can really make things 50 00:00:54,416 --> 00:00:55,458 ugly and dark. 51 00:00:55,458 --> 00:00:57,208 For Bitcoin and Bitcoiners, 52 00:00:57,208 --> 00:00:57,708 it's only 53 00:00:57,708 --> 00:00:58,458 the state Department 54 00:00:58,458 --> 00:00:59,125 of the United States. 55 00:01:01,583 --> 00:01:02,375 Corey welcome 56 00:01:02,375 --> 00:01:03,083 back to the Bitcoin 57 00:01:03,083 --> 00:01:03,958 Infinity Show. 58 00:01:03,958 --> 00:01:04,250 Thank you 59 00:01:04,250 --> 00:01:05,916 for joining us again. 60 00:01:05,916 --> 00:01:07,458 It's great to be here. 61 00:01:07,458 --> 00:01:09,458 Hey there Luke. 62 00:01:09,458 --> 00:01:10,250 Let's go. 63 00:01:10,250 --> 00:01:11,666 I love it. Let's go. 64 00:01:11,666 --> 00:01:13,041 Let's go Corey. 65 00:01:13,041 --> 00:01:14,125 First of all, 66 00:01:14,125 --> 00:01:16,750 thank you very much for for, 67 00:01:16,750 --> 00:01:18,000 taking me to Istanbul 68 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:18,750 a couple of months 69 00:01:18,750 --> 00:01:19,666 back, like, 70 00:01:19,666 --> 00:01:21,583 I, I enjoyed that immensely. 71 00:01:21,583 --> 00:01:22,916 We went to a little bitcoin 72 00:01:22,916 --> 00:01:23,666 meet up there 73 00:01:23,666 --> 00:01:26,458 and, had had some fun times. 74 00:01:26,458 --> 00:01:29,000 I got to try a proper kebab 75 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:30,833 without without the sauces. 76 00:01:30,833 --> 00:01:31,291 I hear 77 00:01:31,291 --> 00:01:32,666 that's like how they do 78 00:01:32,666 --> 00:01:34,166 the men is in Istanbul. 79 00:01:34,166 --> 00:01:36,625 I recently saw a, 80 00:01:36,625 --> 00:01:39,083 cooking YouTube clip. 81 00:01:39,083 --> 00:01:40,208 Where, where, 82 00:01:40,208 --> 00:01:41,500 some guy was trying to make 83 00:01:41,500 --> 00:01:42,875 proper kebab, and it's, 84 00:01:42,875 --> 00:01:44,083 well, it's a Istanbul 85 00:01:44,083 --> 00:01:45,083 is a special place. 86 00:01:45,083 --> 00:01:46,250 Let's just say that. 87 00:01:46,250 --> 00:01:47,083 The seasoning 88 00:01:47,083 --> 00:01:48,250 is already on the meat 89 00:01:48,250 --> 00:01:49,041 when they cook it. 90 00:01:49,041 --> 00:01:49,625 That's the whole. 91 00:01:49,625 --> 00:01:50,708 Yeah, exactly. 92 00:01:50,708 --> 00:01:51,000 Yeah. 93 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,416 It's been marinated, man. 94 00:01:53,416 --> 00:01:54,458 I it feels like that 95 00:01:54,458 --> 00:01:55,291 dinner just ended. 96 00:01:55,291 --> 00:01:56,208 That was a marathon. 97 00:01:57,666 --> 00:01:59,125 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was, 98 00:01:59,125 --> 00:02:00,500 it was intense for sure. 99 00:02:00,500 --> 00:02:02,041 And, but, 100 00:02:02,041 --> 00:02:03,500 what a beautiful place. 101 00:02:03,500 --> 00:02:04,708 Yeah. 102 00:02:04,708 --> 00:02:06,208 People everywhere but 103 00:02:06,208 --> 00:02:07,208 but nice people. 104 00:02:07,208 --> 00:02:08,750 I mean, 105 00:02:08,750 --> 00:02:10,208 Istanbul is special. 106 00:02:10,208 --> 00:02:11,583 Sure. It's it's truly. 107 00:02:11,583 --> 00:02:12,166 It's a bridge 108 00:02:12,166 --> 00:02:13,958 between the east and west. 109 00:02:13,958 --> 00:02:15,000 Yeah, it really is. 110 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,833 I, I try to describe 111 00:02:16,833 --> 00:02:17,250 to people 112 00:02:17,250 --> 00:02:18,166 who haven't been there 113 00:02:18,166 --> 00:02:19,416 what it's kind of like. 114 00:02:19,416 --> 00:02:20,791 And because a lot of people 115 00:02:20,791 --> 00:02:21,625 have been to Rome 116 00:02:21,625 --> 00:02:22,541 and how cool it is 117 00:02:22,541 --> 00:02:24,416 to see the old 118 00:02:24,416 --> 00:02:26,208 mixed with the new 119 00:02:26,208 --> 00:02:27,000 because their buildings 120 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:27,958 from 20, 121 00:02:27,958 --> 00:02:28,666 20, 500 years 122 00:02:28,666 --> 00:02:29,916 ago, things like that. 123 00:02:29,916 --> 00:02:32,166 Well, Istanbul is like that 124 00:02:32,166 --> 00:02:32,916 because it's a city 125 00:02:32,916 --> 00:02:34,666 that's been there for 126 00:02:34,666 --> 00:02:35,541 millennia, 127 00:02:35,541 --> 00:02:36,541 and there are buildings 128 00:02:36,541 --> 00:02:38,125 there that date to, 129 00:02:38,125 --> 00:02:39,500 you know, 4 or 500 BC, 130 00:02:39,500 --> 00:02:41,500 and then everything since 131 00:02:41,500 --> 00:02:42,250 except Rome 132 00:02:42,250 --> 00:02:43,375 is like maybe fewer 133 00:02:43,375 --> 00:02:44,458 than 2 million people. 134 00:02:44,458 --> 00:02:45,208 And it's not a 135 00:02:45,208 --> 00:02:46,500 commercial center, 136 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:47,875 and Istanbul 137 00:02:47,875 --> 00:02:49,583 has 18 million people, 138 00:02:49,583 --> 00:02:50,333 the same as the New York 139 00:02:50,333 --> 00:02:51,125 metro area 140 00:02:51,125 --> 00:02:52,416 or the same, as, you know, 141 00:02:52,416 --> 00:02:54,500 basically all of LA County. 142 00:02:54,500 --> 00:02:56,041 And it's all just plopped 143 00:02:56,041 --> 00:02:56,750 right on top 144 00:02:56,750 --> 00:02:57,208 of all that 145 00:02:57,208 --> 00:02:58,708 ancient architecture. 146 00:02:58,708 --> 00:02:59,583 And so it's just 147 00:02:59,583 --> 00:03:01,125 this bustling metropolis. 148 00:03:01,125 --> 00:03:02,208 It's the biggest city 149 00:03:02,208 --> 00:03:02,791 in the world 150 00:03:02,791 --> 00:03:04,375 for three quarters 151 00:03:04,375 --> 00:03:04,916 of the years 152 00:03:04,916 --> 00:03:06,541 since Christ and, 153 00:03:06,541 --> 00:03:07,041 you know, there's 154 00:03:07,041 --> 00:03:08,125 no other major city 155 00:03:08,125 --> 00:03:08,833 that compares 156 00:03:08,833 --> 00:03:09,708 for a thousand miles 157 00:03:09,708 --> 00:03:11,208 in any direction. 158 00:03:11,208 --> 00:03:13,250 And, yeah, it's it's 159 00:03:13,250 --> 00:03:14,083 it's different. 160 00:03:14,083 --> 00:03:15,333 Istanbul is built different 161 00:03:16,333 --> 00:03:16,583 now. 162 00:03:16,583 --> 00:03:17,541 It's truly special. 163 00:03:17,541 --> 00:03:18,083 I mean, 164 00:03:18,083 --> 00:03:19,250 the traffic is horrible, 165 00:03:19,250 --> 00:03:20,791 but other than that, it's, 166 00:03:20,791 --> 00:03:22,083 it's. Don't drive anywhere. 167 00:03:22,083 --> 00:03:23,250 Yeah. 168 00:03:23,250 --> 00:03:24,500 And I still think 169 00:03:24,500 --> 00:03:25,250 it should change 170 00:03:25,250 --> 00:03:25,625 it back 171 00:03:25,625 --> 00:03:27,041 to make like 172 00:03:27,041 --> 00:03:28,250 or not Constantinople. 173 00:03:28,250 --> 00:03:28,750 Make like 174 00:03:28,750 --> 00:03:29,791 or just the proper name. 175 00:03:29,791 --> 00:03:30,625 Right? Right. Luke. 176 00:03:30,625 --> 00:03:31,250 Is that what 177 00:03:31,250 --> 00:03:32,583 the Vikings that came down 178 00:03:32,583 --> 00:03:33,000 and hung out 179 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:34,333 for a little bit called it? 180 00:03:34,333 --> 00:03:35,125 Yeah, yeah, 181 00:03:35,125 --> 00:03:35,791 they came down 182 00:03:35,791 --> 00:03:36,500 and then hung out 183 00:03:36,500 --> 00:03:37,166 for a little bit. 184 00:03:37,166 --> 00:03:40,166 But exactly what they did. 185 00:03:41,333 --> 00:03:41,583 No. 186 00:03:41,583 --> 00:03:42,708 Great. 187 00:03:42,708 --> 00:03:43,083 All right. 188 00:03:43,083 --> 00:03:45,083 So, so I think for 189 00:03:45,083 --> 00:03:45,958 most of our listeners 190 00:03:45,958 --> 00:03:46,625 probably know 191 00:03:46,625 --> 00:03:47,916 you since before, 192 00:03:47,916 --> 00:03:49,166 and if they don't, 193 00:03:49,166 --> 00:03:50,750 shame on them. 194 00:03:50,750 --> 00:03:52,333 But I think a lot of people 195 00:03:52,333 --> 00:03:53,250 would like to hear 196 00:03:53,250 --> 00:03:54,291 whatever you, 197 00:03:54,291 --> 00:03:55,083 whatever beans 198 00:03:55,083 --> 00:03:56,666 you can spill on the 199 00:03:56,666 --> 00:03:57,500 on the whole swan 200 00:03:57,500 --> 00:03:59,125 story thing. Like what? 201 00:03:59,125 --> 00:03:59,750 What is 202 00:03:59,750 --> 00:04:01,041 can you give us an update 203 00:04:01,041 --> 00:04:01,666 on Swan? 204 00:04:01,666 --> 00:04:02,833 Where what's 205 00:04:02,833 --> 00:04:03,416 where is one 206 00:04:03,416 --> 00:04:04,291 is at at the moment 207 00:04:04,291 --> 00:04:05,250 and what's going on. 208 00:04:05,250 --> 00:04:06,333 Yeah yeah yeah sure. 209 00:04:06,333 --> 00:04:07,125 So on the, 210 00:04:07,125 --> 00:04:08,125 on the financial services 211 00:04:08,125 --> 00:04:08,458 side, 212 00:04:08,458 --> 00:04:09,625 kind of the wealth platform 213 00:04:09,625 --> 00:04:10,833 for years 214 00:04:10,833 --> 00:04:11,833 and families and stuff 215 00:04:11,833 --> 00:04:13,333 like this is all crushing 216 00:04:13,333 --> 00:04:14,166 and doing great 217 00:04:14,166 --> 00:04:15,000 as you can imagine. 218 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,208 And and a budding 219 00:04:16,208 --> 00:04:16,833 bull market. 220 00:04:16,833 --> 00:04:17,875 So revenue is up 221 00:04:17,875 --> 00:04:18,750 something like two 222 00:04:18,750 --> 00:04:19,708 year over year. And, 223 00:04:20,916 --> 00:04:21,458 so yeah, 224 00:04:21,458 --> 00:04:22,666 very, very happy with that. 225 00:04:22,666 --> 00:04:24,416 Rolling out new products. 226 00:04:24,416 --> 00:04:25,750 We've got a waitlist 227 00:04:25,750 --> 00:04:26,208 coming out 228 00:04:26,208 --> 00:04:26,875 for our pretty 229 00:04:26,875 --> 00:04:27,625 awesome products 230 00:04:27,625 --> 00:04:28,250 that a lot of people 231 00:04:28,250 --> 00:04:29,875 are excited about. 232 00:04:29,875 --> 00:04:30,750 So that'll come out 233 00:04:30,750 --> 00:04:31,708 next week, 234 00:04:31,708 --> 00:04:32,416 the week of the 235 00:04:32,416 --> 00:04:34,750 16th of December. 236 00:04:34,750 --> 00:04:35,875 And then. 237 00:04:35,875 --> 00:04:36,416 Yeah, I mean, 238 00:04:36,416 --> 00:04:38,583 just just just growing fast 239 00:04:38,583 --> 00:04:39,625 and navigating 240 00:04:39,625 --> 00:04:40,625 a bull market, 241 00:04:40,625 --> 00:04:41,666 you gotta got a tiger 242 00:04:41,666 --> 00:04:42,208 by the tail. 243 00:04:42,208 --> 00:04:43,083 In this situation, 244 00:04:43,083 --> 00:04:43,375 phone's 245 00:04:43,375 --> 00:04:43,833 kind of ringing 246 00:04:43,833 --> 00:04:44,375 off the hook, 247 00:04:44,375 --> 00:04:45,000 and all the sales 248 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:46,541 guys are are busy 249 00:04:46,541 --> 00:04:47,125 all the time, 250 00:04:47,125 --> 00:04:48,000 as you can imagine. 251 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,875 So, you just don't want to. 252 00:04:49,875 --> 00:04:50,875 Don't want to mess it up 253 00:04:50,875 --> 00:04:51,666 when you have these kinds 254 00:04:51,666 --> 00:04:53,041 of tailwinds. 255 00:04:53,041 --> 00:04:53,875 And then, 256 00:04:53,875 --> 00:04:54,625 I think you're probably 257 00:04:54,625 --> 00:04:56,708 also asking about, mining 258 00:04:56,708 --> 00:04:57,958 because we, 259 00:04:57,958 --> 00:04:59,916 not not our own decision 260 00:04:59,916 --> 00:05:00,958 to get out of the mining 261 00:05:00,958 --> 00:05:01,708 business back 262 00:05:01,708 --> 00:05:03,333 in, back in August. 263 00:05:03,333 --> 00:05:03,833 It was, 264 00:05:03,833 --> 00:05:04,708 it was somebody else 265 00:05:04,708 --> 00:05:05,750 decision to, 266 00:05:05,750 --> 00:05:07,916 to take our mining business. 267 00:05:07,916 --> 00:05:08,541 Unfortunately, 268 00:05:08,541 --> 00:05:08,958 I can't really 269 00:05:08,958 --> 00:05:10,125 talk about it. 270 00:05:10,125 --> 00:05:10,916 What's what's in 271 00:05:10,916 --> 00:05:12,208 public is in the filings 272 00:05:12,208 --> 00:05:13,625 and covered by the press, 273 00:05:13,625 --> 00:05:14,208 but the rest is 274 00:05:14,208 --> 00:05:14,958 just working its way 275 00:05:14,958 --> 00:05:15,583 through the courts. 276 00:05:15,583 --> 00:05:16,625 But, obviously, 277 00:05:16,625 --> 00:05:17,250 we built a really 278 00:05:17,250 --> 00:05:18,791 valuable business, and 279 00:05:18,791 --> 00:05:19,500 and we have pretty 280 00:05:19,500 --> 00:05:20,833 strong claims over the value 281 00:05:20,833 --> 00:05:22,250 that we that we delivered. 282 00:05:22,250 --> 00:05:22,958 And, 283 00:05:22,958 --> 00:05:23,375 and we'll see 284 00:05:23,375 --> 00:05:24,083 how it plays out. 285 00:05:24,083 --> 00:05:25,458 But it's really just kind of 286 00:05:25,458 --> 00:05:26,333 a separate thing. 287 00:05:26,333 --> 00:05:27,791 Now that's, that's just, 288 00:05:27,791 --> 00:05:29,000 you know, managed 289 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,083 basically outside 290 00:05:30,083 --> 00:05:31,500 the main business of Swan. 291 00:05:31,500 --> 00:05:31,875 And it doesn't 292 00:05:31,875 --> 00:05:32,625 really affect us. 293 00:05:33,791 --> 00:05:34,125 Okay. 294 00:05:34,125 --> 00:05:34,625 So so 295 00:05:34,625 --> 00:05:35,666 business as usual 296 00:05:35,666 --> 00:05:38,000 on the normal swan side. 297 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:38,916 So yeah. Speak. 298 00:05:38,916 --> 00:05:40,416 Yeah I'll well 299 00:05:40,416 --> 00:05:41,291 love the partners. 300 00:05:41,291 --> 00:05:44,250 We have big fan of 301 00:05:44,250 --> 00:05:45,208 of equity Trust, 302 00:05:45,208 --> 00:05:46,875 which is 50 year old company 303 00:05:46,875 --> 00:05:47,875 that kind of created 304 00:05:47,875 --> 00:05:49,291 the alternative assets 305 00:05:49,291 --> 00:05:50,041 in retirement 306 00:05:50,041 --> 00:05:51,958 accounts category. 307 00:05:51,958 --> 00:05:52,416 So they're 308 00:05:52,416 --> 00:05:53,708 profitable and huge, 309 00:05:53,708 --> 00:05:54,250 and that's 310 00:05:54,250 --> 00:05:55,916 got our retirement accounts 311 00:05:55,916 --> 00:05:57,750 now, which is awesome. 312 00:05:57,750 --> 00:05:58,916 Back doors handling 313 00:05:58,916 --> 00:06:00,750 brokerage, which is, 314 00:06:00,750 --> 00:06:03,250 much better tech platform 315 00:06:03,250 --> 00:06:04,375 and much deeper pockets. 316 00:06:04,375 --> 00:06:04,958 They're majority 317 00:06:04,958 --> 00:06:05,875 owned by Ice, 318 00:06:05,875 --> 00:06:06,833 which owns New York 319 00:06:06,833 --> 00:06:07,708 Stock Exchange. 320 00:06:07,708 --> 00:06:09,458 And you know, chairman of 321 00:06:09,458 --> 00:06:10,958 is Kelly Lafleur's husband. 322 00:06:10,958 --> 00:06:11,791 And she's now 323 00:06:11,791 --> 00:06:12,875 the head 324 00:06:12,875 --> 00:06:13,708 of the Small Business 325 00:06:13,708 --> 00:06:14,833 Administration under Trump. 326 00:06:14,833 --> 00:06:15,958 So they're connected. 327 00:06:15,958 --> 00:06:17,208 They've got New York. 328 00:06:17,208 --> 00:06:18,208 They've got you know, 329 00:06:18,208 --> 00:06:18,625 they're just 330 00:06:18,625 --> 00:06:20,458 it's a much better platform. 331 00:06:20,458 --> 00:06:21,375 We've got limit orders 332 00:06:21,375 --> 00:06:22,500 coming for everybody. 333 00:06:23,500 --> 00:06:24,083 You know, a lot of 334 00:06:24,083 --> 00:06:24,958 people wanted that. 335 00:06:24,958 --> 00:06:26,625 We'll have, 336 00:06:26,625 --> 00:06:27,958 we'll have interest 337 00:06:27,958 --> 00:06:28,791 bearing accounts 338 00:06:28,791 --> 00:06:30,041 for USD deposits 339 00:06:30,041 --> 00:06:31,041 paid in Bitcoin, 340 00:06:31,041 --> 00:06:32,000 the same as, 341 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:32,458 what River 342 00:06:32,458 --> 00:06:33,541 announced a few months ago. 343 00:06:33,541 --> 00:06:34,375 So we should have that 344 00:06:34,375 --> 00:06:34,833 in the next few 345 00:06:34,833 --> 00:06:35,875 months as well. 346 00:06:35,875 --> 00:06:36,875 So I just think there's 347 00:06:36,875 --> 00:06:39,250 a lot of cool stuff coming. 348 00:06:39,250 --> 00:06:41,333 Working on getting, into, 349 00:06:41,333 --> 00:06:42,416 asset backed loans 350 00:06:42,416 --> 00:06:43,541 for all 50 states 351 00:06:43,541 --> 00:06:44,833 in the first half of, 352 00:06:44,833 --> 00:06:45,791 of 2024. 353 00:06:45,791 --> 00:06:46,791 So just kind of product 354 00:06:46,791 --> 00:06:48,250 expansion with, 355 00:06:48,250 --> 00:06:49,416 with better partners 356 00:06:49,416 --> 00:06:51,083 as this whole, 357 00:06:51,083 --> 00:06:51,416 you know, 358 00:06:51,416 --> 00:06:54,916 crypto infrastructure space, 359 00:06:54,958 --> 00:06:56,291 all the vendors that serve 360 00:06:56,291 --> 00:06:57,416 Bitcoin companies 361 00:06:57,416 --> 00:06:58,375 are getting 362 00:06:58,375 --> 00:07:00,500 better, maturing, 363 00:07:00,500 --> 00:07:00,958 getting rid 364 00:07:00,958 --> 00:07:01,916 of the bad players 365 00:07:01,916 --> 00:07:02,916 that weren't very good 366 00:07:02,916 --> 00:07:03,750 and things like that. 367 00:07:03,750 --> 00:07:04,625 So just kind of allows 368 00:07:04,625 --> 00:07:06,208 us to be the, 369 00:07:06,208 --> 00:07:07,250 the point of contact 370 00:07:07,250 --> 00:07:08,625 for families and businesses 371 00:07:08,625 --> 00:07:10,791 looking to build wealth 372 00:07:10,791 --> 00:07:11,500 in Bitcoin. 373 00:07:11,500 --> 00:07:12,375 They end up needing 374 00:07:12,375 --> 00:07:13,541 a lot of different products 375 00:07:13,541 --> 00:07:14,166 and services 376 00:07:14,166 --> 00:07:15,125 that they want serviced 377 00:07:15,125 --> 00:07:16,208 by Bitcoin experts 378 00:07:16,208 --> 00:07:17,541 because their, 379 00:07:17,541 --> 00:07:18,208 you know, their 380 00:07:18,208 --> 00:07:18,791 their private 381 00:07:18,791 --> 00:07:19,416 wealth management 382 00:07:19,416 --> 00:07:20,458 guy doesn't 383 00:07:20,458 --> 00:07:21,541 speak this language 384 00:07:21,541 --> 00:07:22,000 and doesn't 385 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:23,375 understand Bitcoin. 386 00:07:23,375 --> 00:07:24,000 And we do. 387 00:07:25,583 --> 00:07:25,791 That. 388 00:07:25,791 --> 00:07:27,291 He doesn't speak C plus. 389 00:07:27,291 --> 00:07:29,166 Plus is that 390 00:07:29,166 --> 00:07:30,833 is that the language. 391 00:07:30,833 --> 00:07:33,833 Anyway, I think 392 00:07:33,875 --> 00:07:34,791 we had a conversation 393 00:07:34,791 --> 00:07:36,666 about this in Istanbul, 394 00:07:36,666 --> 00:07:38,750 about like the equities, 395 00:07:38,750 --> 00:07:40,291 the ETFs, 396 00:07:40,291 --> 00:07:41,583 all the paper bitcoins 397 00:07:41,583 --> 00:07:42,083 that the, 398 00:07:42,083 --> 00:07:43,291 the big exchanges 399 00:07:43,291 --> 00:07:45,833 may or may not have, 400 00:07:45,833 --> 00:07:47,625 strategic bitcoin reserves 401 00:07:47,625 --> 00:07:48,625 for nation states 402 00:07:48,625 --> 00:07:49,666 and all of this stuff. 403 00:07:49,666 --> 00:07:50,750 And I remember 404 00:07:50,750 --> 00:07:51,166 you saying, 405 00:07:51,166 --> 00:07:53,750 like the conclusion of the, 406 00:07:53,750 --> 00:07:56,166 of the, the conversation 407 00:07:56,166 --> 00:07:56,541 we had 408 00:07:56,541 --> 00:07:57,083 was sort of like, 409 00:07:57,083 --> 00:07:58,375 sort of like all roads 410 00:07:58,375 --> 00:07:59,250 lead to Bitcoin 411 00:07:59,250 --> 00:08:00,333 like this, that, 412 00:08:00,333 --> 00:08:02,125 that really this black hole 413 00:08:02,125 --> 00:08:04,333 phenomenon that, that 414 00:08:04,333 --> 00:08:05,375 it where's the wealth 415 00:08:05,375 --> 00:08:05,875 gonna go. 416 00:08:05,875 --> 00:08:07,333 It can only go to Bitcoin 417 00:08:07,333 --> 00:08:07,791 in the end. 418 00:08:07,791 --> 00:08:08,875 Like can you expand 419 00:08:08,875 --> 00:08:11,416 on that a bit. 420 00:08:11,416 --> 00:08:11,916 Yeah I mean 421 00:08:11,916 --> 00:08:13,541 I think that's that's true. 422 00:08:13,541 --> 00:08:15,291 And and we've seen it 423 00:08:15,291 --> 00:08:16,250 being borne out 424 00:08:16,250 --> 00:08:17,666 over the last few years. 425 00:08:17,666 --> 00:08:20,875 And Bitcoin's growth story, 426 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:22,708 which by the way, 427 00:08:22,708 --> 00:08:23,875 I think will continue 428 00:08:23,875 --> 00:08:25,083 even past the point 429 00:08:25,083 --> 00:08:26,208 where volatility 430 00:08:26,208 --> 00:08:27,416 is dramatically reduced. 431 00:08:27,416 --> 00:08:28,458 So in a few decades 432 00:08:28,458 --> 00:08:29,500 when we're not 433 00:08:29,500 --> 00:08:31,125 still experiencing, 434 00:08:31,125 --> 00:08:31,708 you know, 435 00:08:31,708 --> 00:08:33,291 price booms and busts, 436 00:08:33,291 --> 00:08:34,166 I think the growth 437 00:08:34,166 --> 00:08:34,833 rate of Bitcoin 438 00:08:34,833 --> 00:08:36,083 will still be 439 00:08:36,083 --> 00:08:36,958 the best risk 440 00:08:36,958 --> 00:08:37,916 adjusted return 441 00:08:37,916 --> 00:08:38,875 for any major asset 442 00:08:38,875 --> 00:08:39,833 class out there 443 00:08:39,833 --> 00:08:41,625 for quite some time. 444 00:08:41,625 --> 00:08:43,125 Eventually, you know, 445 00:08:43,125 --> 00:08:44,000 maybe end of the century 446 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:44,500 or something 447 00:08:44,500 --> 00:08:45,291 will be 448 00:08:45,291 --> 00:08:46,708 finally surpassed again 449 00:08:46,708 --> 00:08:48,708 by by businesses 450 00:08:48,708 --> 00:08:49,750 building value 451 00:08:49,750 --> 00:08:50,916 with with Bitcoin 452 00:08:50,916 --> 00:08:51,875 as the risk free rate. 453 00:08:51,875 --> 00:08:52,708 This Bitcoin's 454 00:08:52,708 --> 00:08:53,666 purchasing power increase 455 00:08:53,666 --> 00:08:54,708 as the risk free rate that 456 00:08:54,708 --> 00:08:55,958 they've got to hurdle over. 457 00:08:57,666 --> 00:08:59,250 But until then, 458 00:08:59,250 --> 00:09:00,625 you know, any 459 00:09:00,625 --> 00:09:02,000 any instrument, 460 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,541 any business or 461 00:09:03,541 --> 00:09:05,416 any any bond offering, 462 00:09:05,416 --> 00:09:07,916 any stock offering, 463 00:09:07,916 --> 00:09:09,500 you have to really consider 464 00:09:09,500 --> 00:09:11,333 whether it's made better. 465 00:09:11,333 --> 00:09:12,333 And that means 466 00:09:12,333 --> 00:09:15,500 is the risk reward better by 467 00:09:16,625 --> 00:09:18,291 leveraging Bitcoin for it. 468 00:09:18,291 --> 00:09:19,708 So this is what we see 469 00:09:19,708 --> 00:09:20,625 with, multiple 470 00:09:20,625 --> 00:09:22,708 companies now. 471 00:09:22,708 --> 00:09:23,333 In November 472 00:09:23,333 --> 00:09:24,875 was kind of an explosion of, 473 00:09:24,875 --> 00:09:26,041 of more companies 474 00:09:26,041 --> 00:09:27,625 issuing large convertible 475 00:09:27,625 --> 00:09:29,416 debt offerings. 476 00:09:29,416 --> 00:09:30,791 So not just MicroStrategy. 477 00:09:30,791 --> 00:09:31,666 You had, 478 00:09:31,666 --> 00:09:32,958 $2 billion 479 00:09:32,958 --> 00:09:34,500 offerings from marathon. 480 00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:35,833 Both of them were actually, 481 00:09:35,833 --> 00:09:36,958 scheduled for 482 00:09:36,958 --> 00:09:37,750 less than a billion 483 00:09:37,750 --> 00:09:38,125 and ended up 484 00:09:38,125 --> 00:09:39,625 getting oversubscribed. 485 00:09:39,625 --> 00:09:40,375 Then you had 486 00:09:40,375 --> 00:09:42,083 to do a 500 million offer, 487 00:09:42,083 --> 00:09:44,333 and then you had riot do. 488 00:09:44,333 --> 00:09:45,416 They offered 500, 489 00:09:45,416 --> 00:09:45,750 ended up 490 00:09:45,750 --> 00:09:48,750 oversubscribed into 525. 491 00:09:49,083 --> 00:09:50,666 And then you have the, 492 00:09:50,666 --> 00:09:51,625 the smaller guys 493 00:09:51,625 --> 00:09:52,166 that aren't 494 00:09:52,166 --> 00:09:53,208 doing convertible debt 495 00:09:53,208 --> 00:09:53,708 because they don't 496 00:09:53,708 --> 00:09:54,750 have the size 497 00:09:54,750 --> 00:09:55,416 and the liquidity 498 00:09:55,416 --> 00:09:55,791 to do the 499 00:09:55,791 --> 00:09:56,750 convertible offerings, 500 00:09:56,750 --> 00:09:57,625 but they're continuing 501 00:09:57,625 --> 00:09:59,375 to do the stock offerings. 502 00:09:59,375 --> 00:10:00,583 Right. So that's similar. 503 00:10:01,583 --> 00:10:01,958 Some of these 504 00:10:01,958 --> 00:10:02,541 smaller players, 505 00:10:02,541 --> 00:10:03,500 like the Mata planets 506 00:10:03,500 --> 00:10:04,875 and stuff, 507 00:10:04,875 --> 00:10:05,291 are doing 508 00:10:05,291 --> 00:10:06,750 these, these stock offerings 509 00:10:06,750 --> 00:10:07,166 and they're, 510 00:10:07,166 --> 00:10:09,000 they're using the same logic 511 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:10,125 that MicroStrategy 512 00:10:10,125 --> 00:10:11,500 is promoting about, 513 00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:13,000 you know, essentially 514 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:14,291 this, this massive, 515 00:10:14,291 --> 00:10:15,333 this multiplier tier 516 00:10:15,333 --> 00:10:16,333 and that asset value. 517 00:10:16,333 --> 00:10:17,333 And if that's high, 518 00:10:17,333 --> 00:10:18,291 it's accretive 519 00:10:18,291 --> 00:10:19,916 to issue stock 520 00:10:19,916 --> 00:10:21,375 and buy Bitcoin with it. 521 00:10:21,375 --> 00:10:22,500 And that then flows 522 00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:23,833 through to your 523 00:10:23,833 --> 00:10:24,833 balance sheet. 524 00:10:24,833 --> 00:10:25,791 You don't recognize 525 00:10:25,791 --> 00:10:26,666 it as earnings. 526 00:10:26,666 --> 00:10:28,333 But in some ways 527 00:10:28,333 --> 00:10:29,125 there's an argument 528 00:10:29,125 --> 00:10:29,875 to be said 529 00:10:29,875 --> 00:10:31,166 that it kind of is 530 00:10:31,166 --> 00:10:32,250 because what's 531 00:10:32,250 --> 00:10:33,083 the point of earnings 532 00:10:33,083 --> 00:10:33,916 in the first place. 533 00:10:33,916 --> 00:10:35,000 Earnings 534 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,166 accrete to the assets 535 00:10:36,166 --> 00:10:37,166 on your balance sheet. 536 00:10:37,166 --> 00:10:38,333 That's the whole point 537 00:10:38,333 --> 00:10:38,666 right. 538 00:10:38,666 --> 00:10:38,916 So you're 539 00:10:38,916 --> 00:10:40,000 just kind of skipping a step 540 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:40,666 and you're not flowing it 541 00:10:40,666 --> 00:10:41,750 through the business. 542 00:10:41,750 --> 00:10:42,666 You're just 543 00:10:43,666 --> 00:10:44,666 beefing up your balance 544 00:10:44,666 --> 00:10:46,041 sheet by by playing 545 00:10:46,041 --> 00:10:46,500 this are 546 00:10:46,500 --> 00:10:47,375 between the value 547 00:10:47,375 --> 00:10:48,083 of your stock 548 00:10:48,083 --> 00:10:49,000 and its premium 549 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,000 over your bitcoin holdings. 550 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,166 So that's 551 00:10:51,166 --> 00:10:52,583 it is super fascinating. 552 00:10:52,583 --> 00:10:53,541 And then these convert 553 00:10:53,541 --> 00:10:55,375 buyers are seeing returns 554 00:10:55,375 --> 00:10:56,458 that they've never seen 555 00:10:56,458 --> 00:10:57,375 in their markets. 556 00:10:57,375 --> 00:10:57,750 They're also 557 00:10:57,750 --> 00:10:58,708 seeing volatility 558 00:10:58,708 --> 00:11:00,166 like they've never seen. 559 00:11:00,166 --> 00:11:02,458 So I've been talking 560 00:11:02,458 --> 00:11:03,291 to a lot of the folks 561 00:11:03,291 --> 00:11:04,708 I mean we had 562 00:11:04,708 --> 00:11:05,666 a big Wall Street 563 00:11:05,666 --> 00:11:06,625 firm convert 564 00:11:06,625 --> 00:11:07,416 desk out 565 00:11:07,416 --> 00:11:08,625 with us on on Monday 566 00:11:08,625 --> 00:11:09,416 with some of our 567 00:11:09,416 --> 00:11:10,250 clients and partners 568 00:11:10,250 --> 00:11:10,916 and just kind of picking 569 00:11:10,916 --> 00:11:12,083 their brains and, 570 00:11:12,083 --> 00:11:12,250 you know, 571 00:11:12,250 --> 00:11:13,000 anybody that shows 572 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,000 up on a podcast 573 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,083 and seems eloquent 574 00:11:15,083 --> 00:11:16,000 about this, 575 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:16,250 you know, 576 00:11:16,250 --> 00:11:17,333 I'll grab them and grab 577 00:11:17,333 --> 00:11:18,166 a quick conversation 578 00:11:18,166 --> 00:11:18,500 with them. 579 00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:19,708 Sometimes I'm just 580 00:11:19,708 --> 00:11:20,958 using the frickin audio 581 00:11:20,958 --> 00:11:22,041 call function on Twitter, 582 00:11:22,041 --> 00:11:23,000 and I'll just call somebody 583 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:23,583 that seems like 584 00:11:23,583 --> 00:11:23,875 they send 585 00:11:23,875 --> 00:11:24,916 something intelligent, 586 00:11:24,916 --> 00:11:25,791 they pick up, 587 00:11:25,791 --> 00:11:27,083 and all of a sudden you're 588 00:11:27,083 --> 00:11:28,000 driving around L.A. 589 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,333 talking to some rando 590 00:11:29,333 --> 00:11:30,375 in Switzerland or something. 591 00:11:31,916 --> 00:11:34,458 But, yeah, it's it is 592 00:11:34,458 --> 00:11:36,000 it is roiling markets. 593 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,833 It is making 594 00:11:37,833 --> 00:11:39,583 a whole different class 595 00:11:39,583 --> 00:11:41,333 of investor, 596 00:11:41,333 --> 00:11:42,666 obviously, the kind of 597 00:11:42,666 --> 00:11:44,083 day to day stock punters 598 00:11:44,083 --> 00:11:45,000 that you see on Twitter, 599 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,000 but an entire entire, 600 00:11:49,166 --> 00:11:51,000 swath of Wall Street, 601 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:51,833 and I'm assuming London 602 00:11:51,833 --> 00:11:52,625 as well, 603 00:11:52,625 --> 00:11:53,875 now has to pay attention 604 00:11:53,875 --> 00:11:55,166 to this 605 00:11:55,166 --> 00:11:55,625 because it's 606 00:11:55,625 --> 00:11:57,750 changing what they do. 607 00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:59,291 And they have to. 608 00:11:59,291 --> 00:11:59,833 I was 609 00:11:59,833 --> 00:12:00,750 I was 610 00:12:00,750 --> 00:12:01,583 listening to, 611 00:12:01,583 --> 00:12:04,041 Richard Bosworth, who's, 612 00:12:04,041 --> 00:12:04,666 smart farmer, 613 00:12:04,666 --> 00:12:05,625 a convert trader 614 00:12:05,625 --> 00:12:06,125 who's been 615 00:12:06,125 --> 00:12:06,875 in the Bitcoin space 616 00:12:06,875 --> 00:12:07,208 for a while. 617 00:12:07,208 --> 00:12:07,500 I think 618 00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:08,458 he's on the board of, 619 00:12:08,458 --> 00:12:10,250 of relay over in Europe, 620 00:12:10,250 --> 00:12:11,541 in Switzerland. 621 00:12:11,541 --> 00:12:12,791 And he was talking 622 00:12:12,791 --> 00:12:14,333 to one of his convert 623 00:12:14,333 --> 00:12:15,375 trader friends, 624 00:12:15,375 --> 00:12:15,875 and it's like, 625 00:12:15,875 --> 00:12:16,250 that guy 626 00:12:16,250 --> 00:12:16,750 can't go to the 627 00:12:16,750 --> 00:12:18,416 bathroom anymore 628 00:12:18,416 --> 00:12:19,083 during the day. 629 00:12:19,083 --> 00:12:19,500 Like, he just. 630 00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:20,083 You just can't 631 00:12:20,083 --> 00:12:21,333 you can't leave your desk 632 00:12:21,333 --> 00:12:22,666 because you have to be there 633 00:12:22,666 --> 00:12:24,041 monitoring your delta hedges 634 00:12:24,041 --> 00:12:24,791 and your gamma hedges 635 00:12:24,791 --> 00:12:25,375 and all this shit 636 00:12:25,375 --> 00:12:26,583 and like it. 637 00:12:26,583 --> 00:12:27,208 You know, 638 00:12:27,208 --> 00:12:28,041 if you go to the bathroom 639 00:12:28,041 --> 00:12:28,625 for 5 minutes 640 00:12:28,625 --> 00:12:29,666 or 3 minutes or whatever, 641 00:12:29,666 --> 00:12:30,500 you might come back 642 00:12:30,500 --> 00:12:31,500 and there will be another, 643 00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:32,000 you know, 4 644 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,416 or $5 million of exposure 645 00:12:33,416 --> 00:12:34,875 to your position 646 00:12:34,875 --> 00:12:35,458 because it's moving 647 00:12:35,458 --> 00:12:36,916 around so fast. 648 00:12:36,916 --> 00:12:38,041 And that is, 649 00:12:38,041 --> 00:12:39,208 you know, traditionally 650 00:12:39,208 --> 00:12:40,958 more of a boring, 651 00:12:40,958 --> 00:12:41,666 not boring. 652 00:12:41,666 --> 00:12:42,000 I mean, 653 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,500 it's exciting for bonds. 654 00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:43,958 Converts are 655 00:12:43,958 --> 00:12:44,541 more interesting 656 00:12:44,541 --> 00:12:44,875 because they have 657 00:12:44,875 --> 00:12:46,375 an option in them. But, 658 00:12:47,583 --> 00:12:48,208 yeah, it's a different 659 00:12:48,208 --> 00:12:49,458 ballgame for these guys now. 660 00:12:49,458 --> 00:12:51,125 And and the buzz, 661 00:12:51,125 --> 00:12:51,583 you know, 662 00:12:51,583 --> 00:12:52,791 when I was in New York 663 00:12:52,791 --> 00:12:53,875 the early part of this week 664 00:12:53,875 --> 00:12:55,125 and the buzz around this 665 00:12:55,125 --> 00:12:56,708 and the curiosity 666 00:12:56,708 --> 00:12:57,708 and the number of people 667 00:12:57,708 --> 00:12:58,416 that will come out 668 00:12:58,416 --> 00:12:59,750 to come and chat about it 669 00:12:59,750 --> 00:13:00,458 or clear 670 00:13:00,458 --> 00:13:01,333 time in their schedule 671 00:13:01,333 --> 00:13:02,041 to just kind of 672 00:13:02,041 --> 00:13:03,291 talk about Bitcoin, 673 00:13:03,291 --> 00:13:04,500 because Bitcoin has now 674 00:13:04,500 --> 00:13:05,708 crossed over 675 00:13:05,708 --> 00:13:06,750 into their world. 676 00:13:06,750 --> 00:13:07,750 It didn't really cross 677 00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:09,750 over that way with the ETFs. 678 00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:11,666 The you know, a few firms 679 00:13:11,666 --> 00:13:13,333 have ETF departments. 680 00:13:13,333 --> 00:13:14,541 And they added Bitcoin. 681 00:13:14,541 --> 00:13:15,666 And it was the same buyers 682 00:13:15,666 --> 00:13:16,250 of Bitcoin 683 00:13:16,250 --> 00:13:16,916 that you know 684 00:13:16,916 --> 00:13:18,291 usually were there 685 00:13:18,291 --> 00:13:19,250 a few more people were able 686 00:13:19,250 --> 00:13:20,208 to get exposure to it. 687 00:13:20,208 --> 00:13:22,166 But it's basically one long. 688 00:13:22,166 --> 00:13:25,166 And you know mostly the 689 00:13:25,541 --> 00:13:26,666 the leveraged 690 00:13:26,666 --> 00:13:29,041 and the options on on 691 00:13:29,041 --> 00:13:30,625 the ETFs is again, 692 00:13:30,625 --> 00:13:31,916 kind of for asset managers. 693 00:13:31,916 --> 00:13:32,958 It wasn't like a different 694 00:13:32,958 --> 00:13:34,791 asset class the way, 695 00:13:36,125 --> 00:13:37,208 the way that the crossover 696 00:13:37,208 --> 00:13:37,583 has been 697 00:13:37,583 --> 00:13:39,375 into the DAP markets. 698 00:13:39,375 --> 00:13:40,208 So there's just a 699 00:13:40,208 --> 00:13:41,250 it's a 700 00:13:41,250 --> 00:13:43,208 it's a different energy 701 00:13:43,208 --> 00:13:44,625 that that conversation 702 00:13:44,625 --> 00:13:46,375 is again. 703 00:13:46,375 --> 00:13:47,166 Absolutely. 704 00:13:47,166 --> 00:13:50,166 And unlike 705 00:13:50,458 --> 00:13:52,541 let's see, 706 00:13:52,541 --> 00:13:54,000 let's see if I can, 707 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:55,041 like, break this down 708 00:13:55,041 --> 00:13:55,500 to like, 709 00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:56,583 try to explain it to 710 00:13:56,583 --> 00:13:57,750 maybe not a five year old, 711 00:13:57,750 --> 00:14:00,750 but an 11 year old and, 712 00:14:00,750 --> 00:14:02,666 see, see if I got it right. 713 00:14:02,666 --> 00:14:04,791 And feel free to, to, 714 00:14:04,791 --> 00:14:05,500 correct me 715 00:14:05,500 --> 00:14:06,500 at any point here. 716 00:14:06,500 --> 00:14:07,875 But if I were to explain 717 00:14:07,875 --> 00:14:08,833 what MicroStrategy 718 00:14:08,833 --> 00:14:09,625 is doing to 719 00:14:09,625 --> 00:14:10,708 to an 11 year old, 720 00:14:10,708 --> 00:14:11,750 I would say that they 721 00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:13,083 they're they know 722 00:14:13,083 --> 00:14:14,125 that there's a thing 723 00:14:14,125 --> 00:14:15,458 that's going down in value, 724 00:14:15,458 --> 00:14:16,083 and that's the thing 725 00:14:16,083 --> 00:14:17,166 that's going up in value. 726 00:14:17,166 --> 00:14:17,666 And they're trying 727 00:14:17,666 --> 00:14:18,916 to get rid of the ones 728 00:14:18,916 --> 00:14:19,333 that the 729 00:14:19,333 --> 00:14:20,416 the one that is going down 730 00:14:20,416 --> 00:14:21,291 and accumulate 731 00:14:21,291 --> 00:14:22,208 as much as possible 732 00:14:22,208 --> 00:14:23,625 over the one going up. 733 00:14:23,625 --> 00:14:25,166 Now they have, 734 00:14:25,166 --> 00:14:27,333 a lot of money, 735 00:14:27,333 --> 00:14:29,541 so they can get cheap loans 736 00:14:29,541 --> 00:14:30,125 because they can 737 00:14:30,125 --> 00:14:31,041 use their equity 738 00:14:31,041 --> 00:14:31,916 as collateral. 739 00:14:31,916 --> 00:14:33,166 It's that it's that. Right. 740 00:14:33,166 --> 00:14:33,958 Like, that's 741 00:14:33,958 --> 00:14:34,666 that's how they, 742 00:14:37,416 --> 00:14:39,625 So it's close, I think 743 00:14:39,625 --> 00:14:39,958 on the 744 00:14:39,958 --> 00:14:40,625 first point, 745 00:14:40,625 --> 00:14:41,916 what their arbitrage thing 746 00:14:41,916 --> 00:14:42,750 is, the cheap 747 00:14:42,750 --> 00:14:44,250 cost of credit. 748 00:14:44,250 --> 00:14:45,000 So loans 749 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,750 are artificially kept low, 750 00:14:46,750 --> 00:14:47,666 which makes sense 751 00:14:47,666 --> 00:14:48,291 because governments 752 00:14:48,291 --> 00:14:49,375 are wildly indebted. 753 00:14:49,375 --> 00:14:49,708 And so they 754 00:14:49,708 --> 00:14:50,875 artificially keep 755 00:14:50,875 --> 00:14:51,833 interest rates low 756 00:14:51,833 --> 00:14:52,791 so that they can afford 757 00:14:52,791 --> 00:14:55,250 to pay their debts. 758 00:14:55,250 --> 00:14:55,458 Yeah. 759 00:14:55,458 --> 00:14:56,875 They're basically using 760 00:14:56,875 --> 00:14:57,958 the Cantillon effect 761 00:14:57,958 --> 00:14:59,500 to their advantage here. 762 00:14:59,500 --> 00:14:59,833 Yes. 763 00:14:59,833 --> 00:15:00,458 So, so 764 00:15:00,458 --> 00:15:01,375 and and the reason 765 00:15:01,375 --> 00:15:02,208 that they can pay 766 00:15:02,208 --> 00:15:03,208 their interest 767 00:15:03,208 --> 00:15:04,583 because it's not zero 768 00:15:04,583 --> 00:15:05,875 and it's not negative 769 00:15:05,875 --> 00:15:06,958 is that they have like 770 00:15:06,958 --> 00:15:08,750 $400 million of profit 771 00:15:08,750 --> 00:15:10,333 from their core business 772 00:15:10,333 --> 00:15:10,708 a year 773 00:15:10,708 --> 00:15:11,500 or something like that. 774 00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:12,375 Right? 775 00:15:12,375 --> 00:15:13,375 They do have profits. 776 00:15:13,375 --> 00:15:15,000 But at this point, it's 777 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,708 also almost irrelevant 778 00:15:16,708 --> 00:15:17,541 because the interest 779 00:15:17,541 --> 00:15:18,750 payments are not high. 780 00:15:18,750 --> 00:15:19,833 They've issued 781 00:15:19,833 --> 00:15:20,625 all their recent 782 00:15:20,625 --> 00:15:21,625 convertible debt offerings, 783 00:15:21,625 --> 00:15:23,625 have had 0% coupons. 784 00:15:23,625 --> 00:15:24,458 So, you know, 785 00:15:24,458 --> 00:15:25,500 I think they've got one big 786 00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:27,000 offering at 2.2% 787 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,875 and another 1 to 0.87%, 788 00:15:29,875 --> 00:15:31,541 and the rest are at zero. 789 00:15:31,541 --> 00:15:32,416 And okay. 790 00:15:32,416 --> 00:15:33,541 And basically what 791 00:15:33,541 --> 00:15:35,166 slides is if if you have, 792 00:15:37,333 --> 00:15:38,458 yeah, I mean, you basically 793 00:15:38,458 --> 00:15:39,291 if you have a higher 794 00:15:39,291 --> 00:15:40,166 interest rate, 795 00:15:40,166 --> 00:15:41,125 then you can put 796 00:15:41,125 --> 00:15:42,000 the strike price 797 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:42,875 on the convert 798 00:15:42,875 --> 00:15:43,916 higher as well. 799 00:15:43,916 --> 00:15:45,500 If you have a lower 800 00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:46,166 interest rate, 801 00:15:46,166 --> 00:15:47,250 you have to lower 802 00:15:47,250 --> 00:15:49,291 the strike price. 803 00:15:49,291 --> 00:15:49,833 So they've 804 00:15:49,833 --> 00:15:50,833 basically made the 805 00:15:50,833 --> 00:15:52,583 the trade off of saying, 806 00:15:52,583 --> 00:15:53,666 okay, we'll take that 807 00:15:53,666 --> 00:15:55,708 slightly lower strike price. 808 00:15:55,708 --> 00:15:57,208 And therefore you investor 809 00:15:57,208 --> 00:15:58,583 in the convertible 810 00:15:58,583 --> 00:15:59,000 bond, 811 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,083 have a better chance 812 00:16:00,083 --> 00:16:01,083 of being in the money 813 00:16:01,083 --> 00:16:03,625 when this converts to stock, 814 00:16:03,625 --> 00:16:04,541 in exchange 815 00:16:04,541 --> 00:16:06,083 for not paying interest 816 00:16:06,083 --> 00:16:08,125 as they go. 817 00:16:08,125 --> 00:16:08,583 All right. 818 00:16:08,583 --> 00:16:10,041 So so if we, 819 00:16:10,041 --> 00:16:11,458 if we extrapolate this 820 00:16:11,458 --> 00:16:11,958 and see what 821 00:16:11,958 --> 00:16:13,000 like try to predict 822 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:13,791 the future here 823 00:16:13,791 --> 00:16:15,208 and we try to, 824 00:16:15,208 --> 00:16:16,916 envision like a thousand 825 00:16:16,916 --> 00:16:17,666 MicroStrategy 826 00:16:17,666 --> 00:16:18,291 is trying to do 827 00:16:18,291 --> 00:16:21,041 exactly the same thing. 828 00:16:21,041 --> 00:16:22,666 Is it an infinite game? 829 00:16:22,666 --> 00:16:23,375 It's like this, 830 00:16:23,375 --> 00:16:24,416 the infinite money glitch. 831 00:16:24,416 --> 00:16:26,375 Can they do this forever? 832 00:16:26,375 --> 00:16:27,333 Like my argument 833 00:16:27,333 --> 00:16:28,916 against the MicroStrategy 834 00:16:28,916 --> 00:16:30,416 fanboys here, 835 00:16:30,416 --> 00:16:31,250 is just to play 836 00:16:31,250 --> 00:16:32,041 the devil's advocate 837 00:16:32,041 --> 00:16:33,791 is that the underlying asset 838 00:16:33,791 --> 00:16:34,416 is, of course, 839 00:16:34,416 --> 00:16:35,250 the the risk 840 00:16:35,250 --> 00:16:36,041 free version 841 00:16:36,041 --> 00:16:37,458 of MicroStrategy stock, 842 00:16:37,458 --> 00:16:39,458 because at some point, 843 00:16:39,458 --> 00:16:40,250 Michael can 844 00:16:40,250 --> 00:16:41,666 can change his mind 845 00:16:41,666 --> 00:16:42,208 and just sell 846 00:16:42,208 --> 00:16:43,583 everything like that 847 00:16:43,583 --> 00:16:44,875 can still happen. 848 00:16:44,875 --> 00:16:45,333 Like, 849 00:16:45,333 --> 00:16:46,708 and you don't have that risk 850 00:16:46,708 --> 00:16:47,916 if you hold your own case 851 00:16:47,916 --> 00:16:49,291 like that as well. 852 00:16:49,291 --> 00:16:49,875 Except that 853 00:16:49,875 --> 00:16:50,875 you can change your mind 854 00:16:50,875 --> 00:16:51,875 or you can time lock them. 855 00:16:51,875 --> 00:16:53,125 And, you know, doesn't 856 00:16:53,125 --> 00:16:53,666 even matter 857 00:16:53,666 --> 00:16:54,833 if you change your mind. 858 00:16:54,833 --> 00:16:56,000 So, so 859 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:57,791 so how long can this game 860 00:16:57,791 --> 00:16:59,166 go on like does? 861 00:16:59,166 --> 00:17:00,416 Is this the beginning 862 00:17:00,416 --> 00:17:02,000 of the end of fiat? 863 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:02,583 In general? 864 00:17:02,583 --> 00:17:03,208 Like, can 865 00:17:03,208 --> 00:17:03,958 they just 866 00:17:03,958 --> 00:17:04,708 cancel on the 867 00:17:04,708 --> 00:17:05,666 fuck out of this thing? 868 00:17:05,666 --> 00:17:07,250 And then if Fiat just dies 869 00:17:07,250 --> 00:17:07,875 at one point 870 00:17:07,875 --> 00:17:09,083 because everyone is playing 871 00:17:09,083 --> 00:17:10,458 this game. 872 00:17:10,458 --> 00:17:10,708 Look, 873 00:17:10,708 --> 00:17:11,875 this is the speculative 874 00:17:11,875 --> 00:17:12,708 attack, right? 875 00:17:12,708 --> 00:17:14,000 This is this 876 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,041 this, by the way, 877 00:17:16,041 --> 00:17:18,000 this is institutions coming. 878 00:17:19,625 --> 00:17:21,166 ETFs were not 879 00:17:21,166 --> 00:17:21,958 ETFs was 880 00:17:21,958 --> 00:17:23,250 like a way for people 881 00:17:23,250 --> 00:17:25,041 to buy more Bitcoin. 882 00:17:25,041 --> 00:17:25,875 And it's one for one 883 00:17:25,875 --> 00:17:26,541 and like it. 884 00:17:26,541 --> 00:17:29,541 It was like a step. 885 00:17:30,291 --> 00:17:31,666 There's the sea change 886 00:17:31,666 --> 00:17:32,583 that's happened 887 00:17:32,583 --> 00:17:34,166 really in the last month 888 00:17:34,166 --> 00:17:35,291 just since 889 00:17:35,291 --> 00:17:36,750 the beginning of November. 890 00:17:36,750 --> 00:17:37,500 And I think 891 00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:38,958 I think the real signal 892 00:17:38,958 --> 00:17:39,625 is probably 893 00:17:39,625 --> 00:17:41,208 that another company 894 00:17:41,208 --> 00:17:41,791 was able 895 00:17:41,791 --> 00:17:42,541 to do 896 00:17:42,541 --> 00:17:44,000 a large convert offering. 897 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:44,583 So when you saw 898 00:17:44,583 --> 00:17:46,416 a marathon able to do one 899 00:17:46,416 --> 00:17:48,166 and then two, by the way, 900 00:17:48,166 --> 00:17:49,916 on the back of losing 134 901 00:17:49,916 --> 00:17:51,625 million in Q3 902 00:17:51,625 --> 00:17:52,208 and the market 903 00:17:52,208 --> 00:17:53,166 still snapped up 904 00:17:53,166 --> 00:17:54,625 their convertible 905 00:17:54,625 --> 00:17:56,583 offerings like crazy. 906 00:17:56,583 --> 00:17:57,875 And then you saw Hut 907 00:17:57,875 --> 00:17:58,458 and Riot 908 00:17:58,458 --> 00:17:58,791 be able 909 00:17:58,791 --> 00:17:59,708 to do the same thing. 910 00:17:59,708 --> 00:18:01,666 And it's it's just math. 911 00:18:01,666 --> 00:18:02,833 Like there's 912 00:18:02,833 --> 00:18:04,583 these stocks have volatility 913 00:18:04,583 --> 00:18:05,416 and there's an embedded 914 00:18:05,416 --> 00:18:06,000 call option 915 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,583 and convertible debt 916 00:18:07,583 --> 00:18:08,583 off in a convertible 917 00:18:08,583 --> 00:18:09,750 debt instrument. 918 00:18:09,750 --> 00:18:11,333 And you can price it in 919 00:18:11,333 --> 00:18:12,666 if they offer it at less 920 00:18:12,666 --> 00:18:13,083 than what 921 00:18:13,083 --> 00:18:14,541 the bankers spreadsheet 922 00:18:14,541 --> 00:18:15,291 or the buyer. 923 00:18:15,291 --> 00:18:16,333 Allianz, you know, 924 00:18:16,333 --> 00:18:16,916 bought a quarter 925 00:18:16,916 --> 00:18:18,458 of one of Microstrategy's 926 00:18:18,458 --> 00:18:19,750 convert offerings. 927 00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:20,791 If in their spreadsheet it 928 00:18:20,791 --> 00:18:22,125 says this is a good deal, 929 00:18:23,333 --> 00:18:25,416 then they buy it 930 00:18:25,416 --> 00:18:26,208 and that's it. 931 00:18:26,208 --> 00:18:27,166 It's just math. 932 00:18:27,166 --> 00:18:29,666 So look, there will be 933 00:18:29,666 --> 00:18:30,958 there will be a local 934 00:18:30,958 --> 00:18:31,916 top for this. 935 00:18:31,916 --> 00:18:32,333 There will be 936 00:18:32,333 --> 00:18:33,125 some kind of mania 937 00:18:33,125 --> 00:18:34,166 where it gets overbought 938 00:18:34,166 --> 00:18:35,166 and they get overextended 939 00:18:35,166 --> 00:18:35,916 for sure. 940 00:18:35,916 --> 00:18:37,125 That's that's guaranteed 941 00:18:37,125 --> 00:18:38,125 because that's just how 942 00:18:38,125 --> 00:18:38,875 markets develop. 943 00:18:38,875 --> 00:18:39,375 So there will be 944 00:18:39,375 --> 00:18:40,458 some kind of, 945 00:18:40,458 --> 00:18:40,833 you know, 946 00:18:40,833 --> 00:18:42,583 lby mania at some point 947 00:18:42,583 --> 00:18:44,166 probably in 2025. 948 00:18:44,166 --> 00:18:46,041 And it'll probably be 949 00:18:46,041 --> 00:18:47,916 part of what causes 950 00:18:47,916 --> 00:18:48,500 a blow off 951 00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:50,375 top in the Bitcoin price, 952 00:18:50,375 --> 00:18:51,208 which means we will 953 00:18:51,208 --> 00:18:52,333 probably have a crash. 954 00:18:52,333 --> 00:18:53,250 I'm not a I'm 955 00:18:53,250 --> 00:18:55,583 not a no more big crashes 956 00:18:55,583 --> 00:18:57,125 because if you're saying buy 957 00:18:57,125 --> 00:18:57,875 if you're saying 958 00:18:57,875 --> 00:18:59,208 that there will be no large 959 00:18:59,208 --> 00:19:00,500 crashes in Bitcoin 960 00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:01,833 ever again, 961 00:19:01,833 --> 00:19:02,583 you're also saying 962 00:19:02,583 --> 00:19:04,791 that there will be no 963 00:19:04,791 --> 00:19:06,000 periods of mania 964 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:06,625 with blow off 965 00:19:06,625 --> 00:19:07,458 tops ever again. 966 00:19:08,458 --> 00:19:11,000 But so I will say, like, 967 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,041 if there's not a point 968 00:19:12,041 --> 00:19:13,083 in 2025 969 00:19:13,083 --> 00:19:13,875 where we go up 970 00:19:13,875 --> 00:19:15,625 two weeks in a month, 971 00:19:15,625 --> 00:19:16,583 then maybe we have a shot 972 00:19:16,583 --> 00:19:18,833 at not having a big crash. 973 00:19:18,833 --> 00:19:19,958 But if we go to like, 974 00:19:19,958 --> 00:19:20,791 you know, 975 00:19:20,791 --> 00:19:22,375 150 or 200 976 00:19:22,375 --> 00:19:23,583 and then at two axes 977 00:19:23,583 --> 00:19:25,041 in four weeks, 978 00:19:25,041 --> 00:19:27,625 that's, that's the mania. 979 00:19:27,625 --> 00:19:28,541 And they'll probably be 980 00:19:28,541 --> 00:19:28,833 a bunch 981 00:19:28,833 --> 00:19:30,666 of like crappy companies 982 00:19:30,666 --> 00:19:32,291 issuing convertible bonds 983 00:19:32,291 --> 00:19:32,875 and the market 984 00:19:32,875 --> 00:19:34,208 still snapping them up. 985 00:19:34,208 --> 00:19:34,916 And those people 986 00:19:34,916 --> 00:19:35,291 are all going 987 00:19:35,291 --> 00:19:36,625 to lose their shit 988 00:19:36,625 --> 00:19:37,375 because they don't have 989 00:19:37,375 --> 00:19:38,541 the kind of leverage ratios 990 00:19:38,541 --> 00:19:39,291 and the size 991 00:19:39,291 --> 00:19:40,958 and the liquidity 992 00:19:40,958 --> 00:19:42,500 that MicroStrategy has, 993 00:19:42,500 --> 00:19:43,541 or they have businesses 994 00:19:43,541 --> 00:19:44,250 that lose money 995 00:19:44,250 --> 00:19:45,625 instead of make money, 996 00:19:45,625 --> 00:19:46,791 things like that. Right. 997 00:19:46,791 --> 00:19:49,791 So you know, it is it is 998 00:19:50,791 --> 00:19:51,458 it's the most 999 00:19:51,458 --> 00:19:53,458 easily identifiable, 1000 00:19:54,750 --> 00:19:56,750 risk for both. 1001 00:19:56,750 --> 00:19:58,666 What will cause a mania 1002 00:19:58,666 --> 00:20:00,208 and what will cause 1003 00:20:00,208 --> 00:20:03,958 a large pullback is this. 1004 00:20:04,375 --> 00:20:05,416 And it won't be because 1005 00:20:05,416 --> 00:20:06,500 of MicroStrategy. 1006 00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:07,291 It'll be because 1007 00:20:07,291 --> 00:20:08,041 of a lot of shitty 1008 00:20:08,041 --> 00:20:11,041 companies copying them. 1009 00:20:11,375 --> 00:20:12,166 And it'll be a bunch of 1010 00:20:12,166 --> 00:20:13,500 unsophisticated players 1011 00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:14,666 that don't understand 1012 00:20:14,666 --> 00:20:15,625 the difference between 1013 00:20:15,625 --> 00:20:16,458 this convertible 1014 00:20:16,458 --> 00:20:17,083 debt offering 1015 00:20:17,083 --> 00:20:17,875 and that convertible 1016 00:20:17,875 --> 00:20:19,500 debt offering, 1017 00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:19,708 you know, 1018 00:20:19,708 --> 00:20:20,666 plowing a bunch of money 1019 00:20:20,666 --> 00:20:21,458 into this, thinking 1020 00:20:21,458 --> 00:20:22,583 that it's an it's 1021 00:20:22,583 --> 00:20:23,500 it's a money glitch 1022 00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:24,625 if you do it right. 1023 00:20:24,625 --> 00:20:26,541 It's not 1024 00:20:26,541 --> 00:20:28,916 always a money glitch. 1025 00:20:28,916 --> 00:20:29,833 And then I wanted to 1026 00:20:29,833 --> 00:20:30,375 just get back 1027 00:20:30,375 --> 00:20:31,083 to, you know, 1028 00:20:31,083 --> 00:20:31,791 what you were saying? 1029 00:20:31,791 --> 00:20:33,625 Like, you know, 1030 00:20:33,625 --> 00:20:36,333 I, I've been using the term, 1031 00:20:36,333 --> 00:20:36,958 like your 1032 00:20:36,958 --> 00:20:38,750 sovereignty multiple. 1033 00:20:38,750 --> 00:20:39,500 So basically, 1034 00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:41,125 how much more valuable 1035 00:20:41,125 --> 00:20:42,958 is bitcoin and cold storage 1036 00:20:42,958 --> 00:20:44,458 than another asset, 1037 00:20:44,458 --> 00:20:45,666 whether it's bitcoin linked 1038 00:20:45,666 --> 00:20:46,208 or whatever 1039 00:20:46,208 --> 00:20:48,500 that's not in cold storage. 1040 00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:49,125 And like, 1041 00:20:50,333 --> 00:20:50,875 you know, I've run 1042 00:20:50,875 --> 00:20:52,083 polls on this. 1043 00:20:52,083 --> 00:20:54,916 I think people 1044 00:20:54,916 --> 00:20:55,458 I mean, based 1045 00:20:55,458 --> 00:20:56,708 on what I see in behavior, 1046 00:20:56,708 --> 00:20:58,750 I think they probably, 1047 00:20:58,750 --> 00:20:59,666 slant the polls 1048 00:20:59,666 --> 00:21:00,333 a little bit, 1049 00:21:00,333 --> 00:21:01,541 but it usually comes out 1050 00:21:01,541 --> 00:21:02,625 that all the answers are 1051 00:21:02,625 --> 00:21:05,208 in the 5 to 10 X range. 1052 00:21:05,208 --> 00:21:06,041 I do think that 1053 00:21:06,041 --> 00:21:07,375 broadly, Bitcoiners 1054 00:21:07,375 --> 00:21:08,208 assign 1055 00:21:08,208 --> 00:21:09,416 something like a 1056 00:21:09,416 --> 00:21:11,708 50 to 100% premium. 1057 00:21:11,708 --> 00:21:14,291 So like 1.5 x to two x. 1058 00:21:14,291 --> 00:21:15,208 Now that's not 1059 00:21:15,208 --> 00:21:16,375 the super freedom 1060 00:21:16,375 --> 00:21:17,041 minded people. 1061 00:21:17,041 --> 00:21:18,750 Like it's in near 1062 00:21:18,750 --> 00:21:20,125 infinite, right. 1063 00:21:20,125 --> 00:21:20,750 And people 1064 00:21:20,750 --> 00:21:21,875 that don't trust the system 1065 00:21:21,875 --> 00:21:22,250 or people 1066 00:21:22,250 --> 00:21:22,833 that have been de 1067 00:21:22,833 --> 00:21:23,541 banks before. 1068 00:21:23,541 --> 00:21:24,500 Like, you know, there 1069 00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:24,958 there are people 1070 00:21:24,958 --> 00:21:25,583 that skew that. 1071 00:21:25,583 --> 00:21:26,708 But I think the, 1072 00:21:26,708 --> 00:21:28,208 the mean 1073 00:21:28,208 --> 00:21:29,375 is something like a 50 1074 00:21:29,375 --> 00:21:30,833 or 100% premium 1075 00:21:30,833 --> 00:21:31,583 over value 1076 00:21:31,583 --> 00:21:34,583 held in the system. 1077 00:21:34,583 --> 00:21:35,666 You know, and I'm 1078 00:21:35,666 --> 00:21:36,958 sure that's colored by me 1079 00:21:36,958 --> 00:21:37,958 being in the US, and it's 1080 00:21:37,958 --> 00:21:39,000 dramatically higher 1081 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:39,416 for people 1082 00:21:39,416 --> 00:21:41,000 in Lebanon and Turkey 1083 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:41,958 and other places. Right. 1084 00:21:44,750 --> 00:21:45,916 But yeah, but 1085 00:21:45,916 --> 00:21:46,333 you need to 1086 00:21:46,333 --> 00:21:47,750 discount the value 1087 00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:49,041 and the expected 1088 00:21:49,041 --> 00:21:50,625 returns of any instrument 1089 00:21:50,625 --> 00:21:53,041 that's not fucking Bitcoin. 1090 00:21:53,041 --> 00:21:53,708 And I don't think 1091 00:21:53,708 --> 00:21:54,208 a lot of people 1092 00:21:54,208 --> 00:21:54,666 are doing that. 1093 00:21:54,666 --> 00:21:55,500 I see a lot of people 1094 00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:56,250 that don't understand 1095 00:21:56,250 --> 00:21:58,041 Bitcoin whatsoever, 1096 00:21:58,041 --> 00:21:59,458 and haven't done the work 1097 00:21:59,458 --> 00:22:00,750 to understand what it means 1098 00:22:00,750 --> 00:22:02,000 to actually have value 1099 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,083 completely outside 1100 00:22:03,083 --> 00:22:05,125 of the system. 1101 00:22:05,125 --> 00:22:06,041 And they haven't 1102 00:22:06,041 --> 00:22:06,958 really thought through 1103 00:22:06,958 --> 00:22:08,041 and quantified that. 1104 00:22:08,041 --> 00:22:08,541 And I think it's 1105 00:22:08,541 --> 00:22:10,458 a really good, 1106 00:22:10,458 --> 00:22:12,000 vector for education 1107 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,083 in the coming months. 1108 00:22:13,083 --> 00:22:13,750 And having 1109 00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:14,541 that proof of work 1110 00:22:14,541 --> 00:22:15,500 and putting that education 1111 00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:17,208 out over the next six months 1112 00:22:17,208 --> 00:22:18,375 or 12 months 1113 00:22:18,375 --> 00:22:19,291 before 1114 00:22:19,291 --> 00:22:21,041 what will probably be 1115 00:22:21,041 --> 00:22:24,958 it's a debt speculation 1116 00:22:26,083 --> 00:22:28,375 mania in 2025. 1117 00:22:28,375 --> 00:22:29,958 At some point, 1118 00:22:29,958 --> 00:22:31,041 it'll be nice to already 1119 00:22:31,041 --> 00:22:31,916 have everything 1120 00:22:31,916 --> 00:22:32,666 you can point to 1121 00:22:32,666 --> 00:22:33,833 about how you know. 1122 00:22:33,833 --> 00:22:34,458 Okay, well, here's 1123 00:22:34,458 --> 00:22:35,541 all these resources. 1124 00:22:35,541 --> 00:22:36,750 Remember Self-custody. 1125 00:22:36,750 --> 00:22:37,583 But specifically, 1126 00:22:37,583 --> 00:22:38,250 this is how much 1127 00:22:38,250 --> 00:22:39,500 more valuable 1128 00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:40,583 and having frameworks 1129 00:22:40,583 --> 00:22:42,708 and models behind why 1130 00:22:42,708 --> 00:22:43,708 self-custody Bitcoin 1131 00:22:43,708 --> 00:22:44,958 is so much more valuable 1132 00:22:44,958 --> 00:22:46,333 than paper, Bitcoin or 1133 00:22:46,333 --> 00:22:47,541 Bitcoin linked anything. 1134 00:22:48,958 --> 00:22:49,166 Yeah. 1135 00:22:49,166 --> 00:22:50,666 So I see it as 1136 00:22:50,666 --> 00:22:51,291 like, a 1137 00:22:51,291 --> 00:22:53,208 bank account is really a two 1138 00:22:53,208 --> 00:22:53,625 out of three 1139 00:22:53,625 --> 00:22:54,541 multisig between 1140 00:22:54,541 --> 00:22:55,250 you, the bank 1141 00:22:55,250 --> 00:22:56,666 and the government. 1142 00:22:56,666 --> 00:22:58,541 So, so so the, the 1143 00:22:58,541 --> 00:22:59,458 the ratio is 1144 00:22:59,458 --> 00:23:00,208 how much do you 1145 00:23:00,208 --> 00:23:01,666 trust yourself 1146 00:23:01,666 --> 00:23:03,500 in comparison to, 1147 00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:06,500 that 2 or 3 multisig. 1148 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:08,666 That's that's 1149 00:23:08,666 --> 00:23:09,625 the two you're comparing. 1150 00:23:09,625 --> 00:23:10,500 So how much do you trust 1151 00:23:10,500 --> 00:23:11,333 your own brain 1152 00:23:11,333 --> 00:23:12,500 and how much do you trust 1153 00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:14,333 the government basically. 1154 00:23:14,333 --> 00:23:16,166 Yep I agree. 1155 00:23:16,166 --> 00:23:17,583 Yeah. 1156 00:23:17,583 --> 00:23:19,791 And I think like for 1157 00:23:19,791 --> 00:23:20,666 for the US 1158 00:23:20,666 --> 00:23:22,375 you say like 1.5 for the US. 1159 00:23:22,375 --> 00:23:23,083 It sort of makes sense 1160 00:23:23,083 --> 00:23:24,791 because like the US 1161 00:23:24,791 --> 00:23:25,541 it's not it's 1162 00:23:25,541 --> 00:23:26,875 printing money like mad. 1163 00:23:26,875 --> 00:23:28,916 But it can because it's it's 1164 00:23:28,916 --> 00:23:30,250 the master money printer. 1165 00:23:30,250 --> 00:23:32,166 So it's taking 1166 00:23:32,166 --> 00:23:33,208 taking advantage 1167 00:23:33,208 --> 00:23:34,041 of all the other money 1168 00:23:34,041 --> 00:23:34,916 printers out there 1169 00:23:34,916 --> 00:23:36,208 in that sense. 1170 00:23:36,208 --> 00:23:38,833 And it's also, 1171 00:23:38,833 --> 00:23:40,666 not freezing assets 1172 00:23:40,666 --> 00:23:42,041 just randomly 1173 00:23:42,041 --> 00:23:43,541 that often like, 1174 00:23:45,666 --> 00:23:46,500 in that sense, you, 1175 00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:48,333 you can sort of trust 1176 00:23:48,333 --> 00:23:49,291 the banking system 1177 00:23:49,291 --> 00:23:51,041 to a, to a, to a larger 1178 00:23:51,041 --> 00:23:52,166 extent than you can 1179 00:23:52,166 --> 00:23:53,875 the Turkish 1180 00:23:53,875 --> 00:23:54,625 banking system, 1181 00:23:54,625 --> 00:23:56,458 I guess, like 1182 00:23:56,458 --> 00:23:57,416 just an example. 1183 00:23:57,416 --> 00:23:57,583 Yeah. 1184 00:23:57,583 --> 00:23:59,083 And people feel like, 1185 00:23:59,083 --> 00:24:00,083 you know, to some degree, 1186 00:24:00,083 --> 00:24:00,666 people feel like 1187 00:24:00,666 --> 00:24:01,791 they have recourse 1188 00:24:01,791 --> 00:24:02,416 that you can 1189 00:24:02,416 --> 00:24:04,000 you can go after it with, 1190 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:04,416 you know, a 1191 00:24:04,416 --> 00:24:05,583 decent lawyer and, 1192 00:24:05,583 --> 00:24:07,541 and go seek some justice. 1193 00:24:07,541 --> 00:24:09,791 Or as you've seen with 1194 00:24:09,791 --> 00:24:10,500 the cycle, 1195 00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:11,666 the election cycle here, 1196 00:24:11,666 --> 00:24:12,083 you know, it's 1197 00:24:12,083 --> 00:24:13,166 kind of self-correcting. 1198 00:24:13,166 --> 00:24:13,916 So whether or not 1199 00:24:13,916 --> 00:24:15,291 you believe 1200 00:24:15,291 --> 00:24:16,000 there was a mass 1201 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,666 wave of the banking, 1202 00:24:18,666 --> 00:24:19,583 the people that wanted 1203 00:24:19,583 --> 00:24:20,666 to push that narrative 1204 00:24:20,666 --> 00:24:22,500 that there was, 1205 00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:23,750 were able to go and, 1206 00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:24,208 you know, 1207 00:24:24,208 --> 00:24:26,958 basically influence DC 1208 00:24:26,958 --> 00:24:28,500 and kind of take over 1209 00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:29,625 in the in, 1210 00:24:29,625 --> 00:24:30,916 in a legal election 1211 00:24:30,916 --> 00:24:32,875 process with legal campaign 1212 00:24:32,875 --> 00:24:35,291 donations and legal lobbying 1213 00:24:35,291 --> 00:24:37,166 and, you know, essentially 1214 00:24:38,125 --> 00:24:40,041 legalize gambling 1215 00:24:40,041 --> 00:24:43,041 forever in America. 1216 00:24:44,083 --> 00:24:44,458 Yeah. 1217 00:24:44,458 --> 00:24:45,208 Oh, so 1218 00:24:45,208 --> 00:24:46,791 how how much do you think 1219 00:24:46,791 --> 00:24:47,833 the election like, 1220 00:24:47,833 --> 00:24:49,041 how much of this 1221 00:24:49,041 --> 00:24:50,333 recent bull run 1222 00:24:50,333 --> 00:24:52,416 is because of these, 1223 00:24:52,416 --> 00:24:54,125 bitcoin leveraged equities 1224 00:24:54,125 --> 00:24:54,916 and how much is 1225 00:24:54,916 --> 00:24:56,000 because of the election, 1226 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,875 like Trump was taking credit 1227 00:24:57,875 --> 00:24:59,083 for the whole thing I saw. 1228 00:24:59,083 --> 00:24:59,916 But like. 1229 00:24:59,916 --> 00:25:01,375 Well, they're intertwined. 1230 00:25:01,375 --> 00:25:03,750 Like I think the the, 1231 00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:04,750 the red wave. 1232 00:25:04,750 --> 00:25:05,541 And then also 1233 00:25:05,541 --> 00:25:06,083 I mean, remember 1234 00:25:06,083 --> 00:25:08,000 there were a bunch of, 1235 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,291 there were a bunch of 1236 00:25:09,291 --> 00:25:10,000 crypto 1237 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,666 backed Democrats 1238 00:25:11,666 --> 00:25:13,833 that won their races as well 1239 00:25:13,833 --> 00:25:14,541 because it just doesn't 1240 00:25:14,541 --> 00:25:15,625 take that much money 1241 00:25:15,625 --> 00:25:17,500 to sway a horse race 1242 00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:18,375 for the most part, 1243 00:25:18,375 --> 00:25:19,041 unless you're going 1244 00:25:19,041 --> 00:25:19,541 after somebody 1245 00:25:19,541 --> 00:25:21,000 that shares a committee or, 1246 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:21,291 you know, 1247 00:25:21,291 --> 00:25:22,000 speaker of the House 1248 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:22,916 or something like that, 1249 00:25:22,916 --> 00:25:24,291 like a few hundred 1250 00:25:24,291 --> 00:25:25,041 thousand dollars 1251 00:25:25,041 --> 00:25:26,375 or a million bucks 1252 00:25:26,375 --> 00:25:27,416 will completely change 1253 00:25:27,416 --> 00:25:27,958 that race. 1254 00:25:27,958 --> 00:25:28,541 And, you know, 1255 00:25:28,541 --> 00:25:29,541 some district in Iowa 1256 00:25:29,541 --> 00:25:30,875 or something like that. 1257 00:25:30,875 --> 00:25:31,916 And, you know, 1258 00:25:31,916 --> 00:25:32,333 so they 1259 00:25:32,333 --> 00:25:33,750 they basically went 1260 00:25:33,750 --> 00:25:35,250 after candidates 1261 00:25:35,250 --> 00:25:36,208 on both sides. 1262 00:25:36,208 --> 00:25:37,500 This was like the Coinbase 1263 00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:38,833 and Andreessen Horowitz 1264 00:25:38,833 --> 00:25:39,208 and basically 1265 00:25:39,208 --> 00:25:41,541 all the crypto cabal people, 1266 00:25:41,541 --> 00:25:42,791 backed a bunch of candidates 1267 00:25:42,791 --> 00:25:44,250 on both sides 1268 00:25:44,250 --> 00:25:45,250 that would play ball 1269 00:25:45,250 --> 00:25:46,166 with the crypto guys 1270 00:25:46,166 --> 00:25:46,708 and get them out 1271 00:25:46,708 --> 00:25:47,958 of jail free. 1272 00:25:47,958 --> 00:25:49,375 And they 1273 00:25:49,375 --> 00:25:51,416 it was an 85% success rate, 1274 00:25:51,416 --> 00:25:52,875 85% of the candidates 1275 00:25:52,875 --> 00:25:53,708 that were backed by 1276 00:25:53,708 --> 00:25:54,916 the crypto PACs, one. 1277 00:25:56,666 --> 00:25:57,000 And so 1278 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,666 basically took over Congress 1279 00:25:59,666 --> 00:26:01,666 and the white House and, 1280 00:26:01,666 --> 00:26:02,000 you know, 1281 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:02,958 and it's it 1282 00:26:02,958 --> 00:26:03,833 is what it is like. 1283 00:26:03,833 --> 00:26:06,250 I, I think at this point, 1284 00:26:06,250 --> 00:26:07,541 it's the last battle. 1285 00:26:07,541 --> 00:26:07,916 And I've been 1286 00:26:07,916 --> 00:26:09,083 talking about this a lot. 1287 00:26:09,083 --> 00:26:10,041 You know, 1288 00:26:10,041 --> 00:26:13,041 frankly, for a year now, 1289 00:26:13,250 --> 00:26:15,208 Bitcoin has been separated 1290 00:26:15,208 --> 00:26:16,500 from crypto 1291 00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:18,208 in the minds of the market, 1292 00:26:18,208 --> 00:26:19,666 the media 1293 00:26:19,666 --> 00:26:20,291 and most 1294 00:26:20,291 --> 00:26:21,500 investors, investors 1295 00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:22,625 that actually have money, 1296 00:26:22,625 --> 00:26:23,541 they see bitcoin 1297 00:26:23,541 --> 00:26:24,208 as like saving 1298 00:26:24,208 --> 00:26:25,291 and investing. 1299 00:26:25,291 --> 00:26:27,208 And then crypto is gambling. 1300 00:26:27,208 --> 00:26:28,208 And so 1301 00:26:28,208 --> 00:26:30,166 and just paying attention 1302 00:26:30,166 --> 00:26:31,375 to like the media landscape 1303 00:26:31,375 --> 00:26:32,250 I've had, 1304 00:26:32,250 --> 00:26:33,250 you know, enough 1305 00:26:33,250 --> 00:26:34,208 enough bandwidth 1306 00:26:34,208 --> 00:26:35,208 the last couple of years 1307 00:26:35,208 --> 00:26:36,166 after startup mode 1308 00:26:36,166 --> 00:26:37,375 to start paying attention 1309 00:26:37,375 --> 00:26:38,250 to basketball again, 1310 00:26:38,250 --> 00:26:40,208 which is awesome. 1311 00:26:40,208 --> 00:26:41,375 It ain't the 90s. 1312 00:26:41,375 --> 00:26:42,000 It's not the balls 1313 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:42,875 and the Sonics, but, 1314 00:26:42,875 --> 00:26:43,541 you know, the product's 1315 00:26:43,541 --> 00:26:44,083 pretty good. 1316 00:26:44,083 --> 00:26:44,583 And the 1317 00:26:44,583 --> 00:26:45,500 the player, the talented. 1318 00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:47,291 But all of the advertisement 1319 00:26:47,291 --> 00:26:48,541 is either crypto 1320 00:26:48,541 --> 00:26:50,125 or sports gambling. 1321 00:26:50,125 --> 00:26:50,833 And it's only 1322 00:26:50,833 --> 00:26:51,750 those two things. 1323 00:26:51,750 --> 00:26:52,791 And interestingly, 1324 00:26:52,791 --> 00:26:53,708 I now have a whole 1325 00:26:53,708 --> 00:26:54,416 different view 1326 00:26:54,416 --> 00:26:55,750 of like sports media 1327 00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:57,958 because I work in Bitcoin 1328 00:26:57,958 --> 00:26:58,916 and observe 1329 00:26:58,916 --> 00:26:59,666 this other thing 1330 00:26:59,666 --> 00:27:00,416 called crypto 1331 00:27:00,416 --> 00:27:02,000 and how they do things 1332 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,458 and now I realize that 1333 00:27:03,458 --> 00:27:06,208 almost all of sports 1334 00:27:06,208 --> 00:27:07,458 is fueled by gambling 1335 00:27:08,708 --> 00:27:09,708 almost exclusively. 1336 00:27:09,708 --> 00:27:10,375 Like all the media 1337 00:27:10,375 --> 00:27:11,791 content is not about, 1338 00:27:11,791 --> 00:27:12,416 you know, 1339 00:27:12,416 --> 00:27:13,375 what's this interesting 1340 00:27:13,375 --> 00:27:14,125 in-depth interview 1341 00:27:14,125 --> 00:27:14,958 about this athlete 1342 00:27:14,958 --> 00:27:15,500 as a person? 1343 00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:16,000 No, it's like 1344 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,000 the injury report 1345 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:17,708 so that somebody 1346 00:27:17,708 --> 00:27:19,250 can change their fantasy 1347 00:27:19,250 --> 00:27:20,458 football lineup or, 1348 00:27:20,458 --> 00:27:20,875 you know, 1349 00:27:20,875 --> 00:27:22,375 change the third leg 1350 00:27:22,375 --> 00:27:24,291 and their seven leg parlay. 1351 00:27:24,291 --> 00:27:25,541 And it's basically 1352 00:27:25,541 --> 00:27:27,291 it's it's all kind of 1353 00:27:27,291 --> 00:27:29,541 just a regressive tax 1354 00:27:29,541 --> 00:27:30,125 on people 1355 00:27:30,125 --> 00:27:30,958 that are gambling 1356 00:27:30,958 --> 00:27:32,125 to try to get ten bucks 1357 00:27:32,125 --> 00:27:33,500 or 100 bucks ahead on what 1358 00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:34,250 they're gambling, 1359 00:27:34,250 --> 00:27:34,958 instead of putting 1360 00:27:34,958 --> 00:27:35,708 a little bit away 1361 00:27:35,708 --> 00:27:36,291 and saving for 1362 00:27:36,291 --> 00:27:37,708 the long term. 1363 00:27:37,708 --> 00:27:38,291 And that's 1364 00:27:38,291 --> 00:27:39,750 what really is at play. 1365 00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:40,958 It's basically saving 1366 00:27:40,958 --> 00:27:42,083 versus gambling. 1367 00:27:42,083 --> 00:27:43,500 Is bitcoin versus 1368 00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:44,541 crypto in sports, 1369 00:27:44,541 --> 00:27:46,041 gambling in Vegas, in Macau 1370 00:27:46,041 --> 00:27:46,458 and all of 1371 00:27:46,458 --> 00:27:47,458 and running numbers 1372 00:27:47,458 --> 00:27:48,791 and all of these things 1373 00:27:48,791 --> 00:27:50,625 that that go back millennia. 1374 00:27:50,625 --> 00:27:51,958 Right. This is not new. 1375 00:27:51,958 --> 00:27:52,625 We saw people 1376 00:27:52,625 --> 00:27:53,875 like playing dice in Rome, 1377 00:27:53,875 --> 00:27:54,583 you know. 1378 00:27:54,583 --> 00:27:55,375 But I wasn't there. 1379 00:27:55,375 --> 00:27:57,500 But I know they weren't, 1380 00:27:57,500 --> 00:27:57,958 playing, 1381 00:27:57,958 --> 00:27:58,208 you know, 1382 00:27:58,208 --> 00:27:59,083 little gambling games 1383 00:27:59,083 --> 00:27:59,625 and stuff. 1384 00:27:59,625 --> 00:28:03,500 And it's just the education 1385 00:28:03,833 --> 00:28:05,375 of the lower 1386 00:28:05,375 --> 00:28:06,500 and middle classes 1387 00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:09,708 that you have a way now 1388 00:28:10,458 --> 00:28:12,500 to get ahead 1389 00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:14,125 by just saving a little bit. 1390 00:28:15,208 --> 00:28:16,250 Whatever you can and 1391 00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:18,458 putting that into Bitcoin, 1392 00:28:18,458 --> 00:28:20,875 you know, that's that's 1393 00:28:20,875 --> 00:28:21,500 hopefully 1394 00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:22,583 I mean we've seen that more 1395 00:28:22,583 --> 00:28:23,208 and more people 1396 00:28:23,208 --> 00:28:23,875 see it that way 1397 00:28:23,875 --> 00:28:24,250 and that it's 1398 00:28:24,250 --> 00:28:25,333 working out for them 1399 00:28:25,333 --> 00:28:26,000 because there was just 1400 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,291 a massive pleb class 1401 00:28:27,291 --> 00:28:29,833 that came in in like 17, 18. 1402 00:28:29,833 --> 00:28:32,833 And it's changed their lives 1403 00:28:33,208 --> 00:28:35,458 since then just by stacking 1404 00:28:35,458 --> 00:28:36,750 daily or weekly 1405 00:28:36,750 --> 00:28:38,208 since 2017, 2018, 1406 00:28:38,208 --> 00:28:39,208 2019, 2020. 1407 00:28:39,208 --> 00:28:39,708 It's it's 1408 00:28:39,708 --> 00:28:41,958 a big, big boost 1409 00:28:41,958 --> 00:28:43,666 and helping them 1410 00:28:43,666 --> 00:28:44,375 get their parents 1411 00:28:44,375 --> 00:28:45,791 retired and 1412 00:28:45,791 --> 00:28:47,291 buying cottages or whatever 1413 00:28:47,291 --> 00:28:48,000 it is you know, 1414 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:48,750 like it's it's 1415 00:28:48,750 --> 00:28:50,500 changing things for 1416 00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:51,541 for people 1417 00:28:51,541 --> 00:28:52,166 further down 1418 00:28:52,166 --> 00:28:54,250 the economic ladder, 1419 00:28:54,250 --> 00:28:55,083 which is beautiful. 1420 00:28:55,083 --> 00:28:55,500 So I just 1421 00:28:55,500 --> 00:28:56,208 I just hope more 1422 00:28:56,208 --> 00:28:57,458 and more people realize 1423 00:28:57,458 --> 00:28:58,625 that there is a way 1424 00:28:58,625 --> 00:28:59,166 to save 1425 00:28:59,166 --> 00:29:00,083 now that doesn't require 1426 00:29:00,083 --> 00:29:01,750 being a hedge fund manager 1427 00:29:01,750 --> 00:29:03,000 and that doesn't require, 1428 00:29:04,083 --> 00:29:05,541 permission to access. 1429 00:29:05,541 --> 00:29:06,375 That's the main thing. 1430 00:29:06,375 --> 00:29:07,375 Like, anybody can do it. 1431 00:29:07,375 --> 00:29:08,791 And that's never existed 1432 00:29:08,791 --> 00:29:09,541 before. 1433 00:29:09,541 --> 00:29:10,375 It's got me thinking, 1434 00:29:10,375 --> 00:29:11,708 by the way, that I, 1435 00:29:11,708 --> 00:29:12,750 I think 1436 00:29:12,750 --> 00:29:13,791 like you basically take 1437 00:29:13,791 --> 00:29:14,708 that, you know, the, 1438 00:29:14,708 --> 00:29:15,541 the big square 1439 00:29:15,541 --> 00:29:16,583 of the store of value 1440 00:29:16,583 --> 00:29:17,083 and it's like, well, 1441 00:29:17,083 --> 00:29:18,125 Bitcoin's down here 1442 00:29:18,125 --> 00:29:18,833 and here's stocks 1443 00:29:18,833 --> 00:29:19,541 and here's bonds 1444 00:29:19,541 --> 00:29:20,458 and here's real estate. 1445 00:29:20,458 --> 00:29:20,666 All right. 1446 00:29:20,666 --> 00:29:21,625 And all this stuff. 1447 00:29:21,625 --> 00:29:22,166 And it's like 1448 00:29:22,166 --> 00:29:23,000 you take that entire 1449 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,500 1 quadrillion box 1450 00:29:25,500 --> 00:29:26,750 and then you add another 1451 00:29:26,750 --> 00:29:27,750 1 quadrillion box 1452 00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:28,291 next to it, 1453 00:29:28,291 --> 00:29:29,416 which is that 1454 00:29:29,416 --> 00:29:31,333 people will store more value 1455 00:29:31,333 --> 00:29:32,250 instead of 1456 00:29:32,250 --> 00:29:33,208 instead of wasting it 1457 00:29:33,208 --> 00:29:33,750 or spending it 1458 00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:36,166 or gambling it, 1459 00:29:36,166 --> 00:29:36,750 it won't flow 1460 00:29:36,750 --> 00:29:39,208 into the earnings of 1461 00:29:39,208 --> 00:29:41,541 the gambling complex 1462 00:29:41,541 --> 00:29:43,333 it will get stored. 1463 00:29:43,333 --> 00:29:44,041 And so I think 1464 00:29:44,041 --> 00:29:44,666 we'll actually have 1465 00:29:44,666 --> 00:29:45,750 a massive expansion 1466 00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:46,708 just like, 1467 00:29:46,708 --> 00:29:48,833 you know, the example of, 1468 00:29:48,833 --> 00:29:49,166 you know, if 1469 00:29:49,166 --> 00:29:50,125 Uber was going to take 1470 00:29:50,125 --> 00:29:50,833 some percentage 1471 00:29:50,833 --> 00:29:51,666 of the cab market, 1472 00:29:51,666 --> 00:29:52,500 that kind of sucks. 1473 00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:53,000 But if they were 1474 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,083 going to expand 1475 00:29:54,083 --> 00:29:55,583 dramatically the size of 1476 00:29:55,583 --> 00:29:57,000 the market, expand the Tam, 1477 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:57,333 the total 1478 00:29:57,333 --> 00:29:58,583 addressable market, 1479 00:29:58,583 --> 00:29:59,708 well, that's a big business. 1480 00:29:59,708 --> 00:30:00,000 I saw 1481 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,791 another example of this 1482 00:30:01,791 --> 00:30:03,375 just this week on Twitter. 1483 00:30:03,375 --> 00:30:03,750 It was, 1484 00:30:06,708 --> 00:30:07,666 God, what was it? 1485 00:30:07,666 --> 00:30:08,958 It was some kind of 1486 00:30:08,958 --> 00:30:09,541 I think it was 1487 00:30:09,541 --> 00:30:10,958 soc2 compliance. 1488 00:30:10,958 --> 00:30:11,750 So just think about 1489 00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:12,541 security, right? 1490 00:30:12,541 --> 00:30:13,291 Like it's important 1491 00:30:13,291 --> 00:30:15,000 to partners of ours. 1492 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:15,583 You know, we work 1493 00:30:15,583 --> 00:30:16,125 with like 1494 00:30:16,125 --> 00:30:16,958 registered investment 1495 00:30:16,958 --> 00:30:18,208 advisors and, you know, 1496 00:30:18,208 --> 00:30:18,916 wealth managers 1497 00:30:18,916 --> 00:30:19,500 and shit like that. 1498 00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:20,125 And they want to know 1499 00:30:20,125 --> 00:30:20,875 that like, okay, 1500 00:30:20,875 --> 00:30:22,625 are you guys soc2 compliant? 1501 00:30:22,625 --> 00:30:22,958 You know, 1502 00:30:22,958 --> 00:30:23,416 this is like 1503 00:30:23,416 --> 00:30:24,791 security things. 1504 00:30:24,791 --> 00:30:25,916 And that was really, 1505 00:30:25,916 --> 00:30:27,125 really expensive. 1506 00:30:27,125 --> 00:30:28,416 And the total Tam 1507 00:30:28,416 --> 00:30:29,625 for that annually in 1508 00:30:29,625 --> 00:30:31,291 the US was like $100 million 1509 00:30:31,291 --> 00:30:32,125 a year. 1510 00:30:32,125 --> 00:30:33,125 And a startup was like, 1511 00:30:33,125 --> 00:30:33,250 well, 1512 00:30:33,250 --> 00:30:33,583 we're going to 1513 00:30:33,583 --> 00:30:34,208 do that better. 1514 00:30:34,208 --> 00:30:34,958 And it was really hard 1515 00:30:34,958 --> 00:30:35,666 for them to raise 1516 00:30:35,666 --> 00:30:36,000 because they were 1517 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:36,291 like, well, 1518 00:30:36,291 --> 00:30:36,833 you're going to take 1519 00:30:36,833 --> 00:30:37,500 10% share 1520 00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:39,208 and make $10 million a year. 1521 00:30:39,208 --> 00:30:40,250 Who cares? Right? 1522 00:30:41,291 --> 00:30:42,708 They make $100 million a 1523 00:30:42,708 --> 00:30:43,208 year now 1524 00:30:43,208 --> 00:30:44,083 because they expanded 1525 00:30:44,083 --> 00:30:46,583 the market dramatically, 1526 00:30:46,583 --> 00:30:47,666 because people want 1527 00:30:47,666 --> 00:30:49,250 that credibility of Soc2 1528 00:30:49,250 --> 00:30:49,750 other partners 1529 00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:50,333 are asking for it. 1530 00:30:50,333 --> 00:30:50,833 They just couldn't 1531 00:30:50,833 --> 00:30:52,458 afford it before 1532 00:30:52,458 --> 00:30:54,833 it was made easier. 1533 00:30:54,833 --> 00:30:56,458 And so now we are making 1534 00:30:56,458 --> 00:30:57,916 well, not we we 1535 00:30:57,916 --> 00:31:00,958 we all Bitcoin itself. 1536 00:31:00,958 --> 00:31:01,333 Thanks. 1537 00:31:01,333 --> 00:31:03,791 Satoshi has made 1538 00:31:03,791 --> 00:31:05,333 storing value easier 1539 00:31:05,333 --> 00:31:06,625 so it's more attractive 1540 00:31:06,625 --> 00:31:07,625 to store value 1541 00:31:07,625 --> 00:31:08,666 than to do other things 1542 00:31:08,666 --> 00:31:10,750 with your value. 1543 00:31:10,750 --> 00:31:12,000 No it's fantastic. 1544 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,125 And from from an Austrian 1545 00:31:13,125 --> 00:31:14,291 economics perspective, 1546 00:31:14,291 --> 00:31:15,833 this is the process 1547 00:31:15,833 --> 00:31:17,000 of civilization 1548 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,000 having a lower time 1549 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:18,541 preference. 1550 00:31:18,541 --> 00:31:19,291 That's the 1551 00:31:19,291 --> 00:31:20,708 delayed gratification. 1552 00:31:20,708 --> 00:31:22,708 You know, saving up fish, 1553 00:31:22,708 --> 00:31:24,416 in order to save up time, 1554 00:31:24,416 --> 00:31:25,958 to construct a fishing net 1555 00:31:25,958 --> 00:31:27,083 or a fishing rod 1556 00:31:27,083 --> 00:31:29,000 to catch more fish per, 1557 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:29,875 per time unit. 1558 00:31:29,875 --> 00:31:31,541 That's that is civilization. 1559 00:31:31,541 --> 00:31:33,333 Savings is the thing. 1560 00:31:33,333 --> 00:31:34,416 And that is what fiat 1561 00:31:34,416 --> 00:31:36,083 is, has destroyed 1562 00:31:36,083 --> 00:31:36,833 to the point 1563 00:31:36,833 --> 00:31:38,625 where everyone's a gambler 1564 00:31:38,625 --> 00:31:39,416 and that is that. 1565 00:31:39,416 --> 00:31:40,166 That is what's 1566 00:31:40,166 --> 00:31:42,041 destroying civilization. 1567 00:31:42,041 --> 00:31:43,208 And the ability 1568 00:31:43,208 --> 00:31:44,708 giving back the ability 1569 00:31:44,708 --> 00:31:46,750 to save to to the people. 1570 00:31:46,750 --> 00:31:47,875 It's the it's 1571 00:31:47,875 --> 00:31:49,416 the process of civilization. 1572 00:31:49,416 --> 00:31:50,958 Like coming back and 1573 00:31:50,958 --> 00:31:51,833 and making us 1574 00:31:51,833 --> 00:31:53,041 civilized again. 1575 00:31:53,041 --> 00:31:54,250 And how ironic, then, that 1576 00:31:54,250 --> 00:31:55,333 the Bitcoin conferences 1577 00:31:55,333 --> 00:31:56,458 in Las Vegas this year. 1578 00:31:58,916 --> 00:32:00,208 But yeah, 1579 00:32:00,208 --> 00:32:02,000 it is low time preference. 1580 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:02,666 And that is what 1581 00:32:02,666 --> 00:32:04,625 this game is all about. 1582 00:32:04,625 --> 00:32:05,166 Yeah. 1583 00:32:05,166 --> 00:32:06,791 I mean they 1584 00:32:06,791 --> 00:32:08,708 if Bitcoin were a company, 1585 00:32:08,708 --> 00:32:09,708 I think that conference 1586 00:32:09,708 --> 00:32:10,583 would have, 1587 00:32:10,583 --> 00:32:11,458 violated its 1588 00:32:11,458 --> 00:32:12,500 licensing agreement 1589 00:32:12,500 --> 00:32:15,500 long time ago. 1590 00:32:16,166 --> 00:32:17,250 But anybody can use it. 1591 00:32:17,250 --> 00:32:17,750 And that's the 1592 00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:20,583 beautiful part about it too. 1593 00:32:20,583 --> 00:32:21,166 Absolutely. 1594 00:32:21,166 --> 00:32:23,875 If the permission lessness. 1595 00:32:23,875 --> 00:32:24,875 Luke, what are your thoughts 1596 00:32:24,875 --> 00:32:26,916 on all of this? 1597 00:32:26,916 --> 00:32:27,833 Yeah. 1598 00:32:27,833 --> 00:32:30,791 I, I got, 1599 00:32:30,791 --> 00:32:32,250 little thread here 1600 00:32:32,250 --> 00:32:33,250 with the security angle, 1601 00:32:33,250 --> 00:32:35,125 and you mentioned SoC two. 1602 00:32:35,125 --> 00:32:35,875 This happens to 1603 00:32:35,875 --> 00:32:36,833 still be my day job 1604 00:32:36,833 --> 00:32:37,833 in cybersecurity. 1605 00:32:37,833 --> 00:32:39,333 And, 1606 00:32:39,333 --> 00:32:40,500 the a topic 1607 00:32:40,500 --> 00:32:41,416 that's that's kind of 1608 00:32:41,416 --> 00:32:42,750 come up for us 1609 00:32:42,750 --> 00:32:43,208 a little bit 1610 00:32:43,208 --> 00:32:44,583 lately is the trade off 1611 00:32:44,583 --> 00:32:45,375 that people have to make 1612 00:32:45,375 --> 00:32:46,333 between security 1613 00:32:46,333 --> 00:32:47,000 and convenience. 1614 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:48,541 And in the Bitcoin context, 1615 00:32:48,541 --> 00:32:49,250 what that really 1616 00:32:49,250 --> 00:32:49,916 comes down to 1617 00:32:49,916 --> 00:32:50,541 is that 1618 00:32:50,541 --> 00:32:52,166 exchanges are 1619 00:32:52,166 --> 00:32:53,625 the convenience, 1620 00:32:53,625 --> 00:32:54,958 but they also provide 1621 00:32:54,958 --> 00:32:55,583 a layer 1622 00:32:55,583 --> 00:32:57,416 of security in the sense 1623 00:32:57,416 --> 00:32:58,708 that the exchanges 1624 00:32:58,708 --> 00:32:59,458 themselves 1625 00:32:59,458 --> 00:33:01,041 are basically providing 1626 00:33:01,041 --> 00:33:01,791 the security 1627 00:33:01,791 --> 00:33:03,000 unless they get hacked. 1628 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:03,833 It's a it's a it's 1629 00:33:03,833 --> 00:33:04,416 a third party. 1630 00:33:04,416 --> 00:33:05,416 You have to trust it. 1631 00:33:05,416 --> 00:33:06,958 But if the exchange 1632 00:33:06,958 --> 00:33:07,666 is saying 1633 00:33:07,666 --> 00:33:08,958 that we are secure 1634 00:33:08,958 --> 00:33:10,375 to a certain extent, 1635 00:33:10,375 --> 00:33:11,875 then that's something 1636 00:33:11,875 --> 00:33:12,625 that's a little bit 1637 00:33:12,625 --> 00:33:13,958 easier than taking 1638 00:33:13,958 --> 00:33:15,625 full self-custody. 1639 00:33:15,625 --> 00:33:16,833 And we, 1640 00:33:16,833 --> 00:33:17,416 of course, 1641 00:33:17,416 --> 00:33:18,250 advocate for going 1642 00:33:18,250 --> 00:33:20,083 the full self-custody, 1643 00:33:21,208 --> 00:33:22,500 rabbit hole, all of that. 1644 00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:23,416 But it's it's 1645 00:33:23,416 --> 00:33:24,500 not necessarily 1646 00:33:24,500 --> 00:33:26,791 easy, straightforward. 1647 00:33:26,791 --> 00:33:27,625 Have you thought about 1648 00:33:27,625 --> 00:33:28,708 this challenge 1649 00:33:28,708 --> 00:33:30,083 in terms of onboarding 1650 00:33:30,083 --> 00:33:30,958 new people 1651 00:33:30,958 --> 00:33:32,416 into the ecosystem? 1652 00:33:32,416 --> 00:33:33,333 If we're going to run 1653 00:33:33,333 --> 00:33:34,750 into scalability problems, 1654 00:33:34,750 --> 00:33:35,666 basically with 1655 00:33:35,666 --> 00:33:36,125 with people 1656 00:33:36,125 --> 00:33:36,750 being able 1657 00:33:36,750 --> 00:33:37,916 to onboard 1658 00:33:37,916 --> 00:33:38,208 fully 1659 00:33:38,208 --> 00:33:39,291 into self-sovereign Bitcoin 1660 00:33:39,291 --> 00:33:40,500 because of this secure 1661 00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:42,708 security, convenience, 1662 00:33:42,708 --> 00:33:44,958 issue here. 1663 00:33:44,958 --> 00:33:45,625 Yeah, for sure. 1664 00:33:45,625 --> 00:33:46,708 I think, 1665 00:33:46,708 --> 00:33:47,625 you know, I was a big reason 1666 00:33:47,625 --> 00:33:48,916 why we bought, 1667 00:33:48,916 --> 00:33:49,833 specter back 1668 00:33:49,833 --> 00:33:51,000 in 2022 and built 1669 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:51,625 Swan Vault, 1670 00:33:51,625 --> 00:33:52,375 which is, 1671 00:33:52,375 --> 00:33:52,958 you know, 1672 00:33:52,958 --> 00:33:54,625 I it seems pretty clear 1673 00:33:54,625 --> 00:33:56,458 it's the easiest, 1674 00:33:56,458 --> 00:33:57,208 simplest, 1675 00:33:57,208 --> 00:33:58,583 most understandable way 1676 00:33:58,583 --> 00:34:00,916 to onboard into multi-sig 1677 00:34:00,916 --> 00:34:02,000 and have self-custody 1678 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,250 with two out of three. 1679 00:34:04,250 --> 00:34:05,000 That's just what we hear 1680 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:05,750 over and over again 1681 00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:06,166 by people 1682 00:34:06,166 --> 00:34:06,958 that have been through that 1683 00:34:06,958 --> 00:34:08,291 and lots of other ways 1684 00:34:08,291 --> 00:34:08,875 to onboard. 1685 00:34:08,875 --> 00:34:09,833 It's just by far 1686 00:34:09,833 --> 00:34:10,500 the simplest. 1687 00:34:10,500 --> 00:34:11,000 And we 1688 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,208 we tried really hard 1689 00:34:12,208 --> 00:34:13,375 to make it boomer proof, 1690 00:34:14,375 --> 00:34:15,416 you know, and, 1691 00:34:15,416 --> 00:34:16,166 and it's 1692 00:34:16,166 --> 00:34:17,250 really fucking good. 1693 00:34:17,250 --> 00:34:18,000 And you've got 1694 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:18,958 an amazing team. 1695 00:34:18,958 --> 00:34:20,125 Some of the former specter 1696 00:34:20,125 --> 00:34:22,250 guys and reared in code, 1697 00:34:22,250 --> 00:34:22,791 you know 1698 00:34:22,791 --> 00:34:24,291 every day working on this, 1699 00:34:24,291 --> 00:34:25,708 making it amazing. 1700 00:34:25,708 --> 00:34:27,000 And and it is really, 1701 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:27,625 really good. 1702 00:34:27,625 --> 00:34:28,583 And so we are 1703 00:34:28,583 --> 00:34:29,625 getting a lot of clients 1704 00:34:29,625 --> 00:34:31,541 now go straight 1705 00:34:31,541 --> 00:34:32,625 from their first Bitcoin 1706 00:34:32,625 --> 00:34:35,291 purchase into a vault, 1707 00:34:35,291 --> 00:34:37,375 which is awesome. 1708 00:34:37,375 --> 00:34:38,291 I've always loved 1709 00:34:38,291 --> 00:34:39,291 the way that unchanged 1710 00:34:39,291 --> 00:34:39,625 as it 1711 00:34:39,625 --> 00:34:40,500 where you know, 1712 00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:42,000 every single customers 1713 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:43,208 in two out of three, 1714 00:34:43,208 --> 00:34:43,500 you know, 1715 00:34:43,500 --> 00:34:44,208 whether they're ready 1716 00:34:44,208 --> 00:34:45,916 to take two of the keys 1717 00:34:45,916 --> 00:34:46,916 or one of the keys 1718 00:34:46,916 --> 00:34:48,833 is up to them. 1719 00:34:48,833 --> 00:34:50,125 But the incentive is set up 1720 00:34:50,125 --> 00:34:50,958 the right way, 1721 00:34:50,958 --> 00:34:53,333 right where I think they, 1722 00:34:53,333 --> 00:34:54,708 if you take two keys 1723 00:34:54,708 --> 00:34:55,708 and Unchained holds one, 1724 00:34:55,708 --> 00:34:56,583 they don't charge you. 1725 00:34:56,583 --> 00:34:57,208 Or maybe it's like 1726 00:34:57,208 --> 00:34:58,291 minimal or something. 1727 00:34:58,291 --> 00:34:59,041 And then if they 1728 00:34:59,041 --> 00:35:00,375 take two keys 1729 00:35:00,375 --> 00:35:01,041 so they're trapped 1730 00:35:01,041 --> 00:35:02,250 because they have to. 1731 00:35:02,250 --> 00:35:03,333 I think Unchained has one. 1732 00:35:03,333 --> 00:35:03,750 And then they have 1733 00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:04,375 a trust company 1734 00:35:04,375 --> 00:35:04,916 down the street 1735 00:35:04,916 --> 00:35:05,750 that holds the other one 1736 00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:07,083 or something like that. 1737 00:35:07,083 --> 00:35:08,000 So there's a little charge 1738 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:08,458 for that, which 1739 00:35:08,458 --> 00:35:09,291 totally makes sense. 1740 00:35:12,708 --> 00:35:15,583 I, I remain 1741 00:35:15,583 --> 00:35:18,583 not a fan of, 1742 00:35:18,666 --> 00:35:21,375 you know, kind of 1743 00:35:21,375 --> 00:35:22,416 not even having like, 1744 00:35:22,416 --> 00:35:23,458 a legal 1745 00:35:23,458 --> 00:35:25,291 structure difference. 1746 00:35:25,291 --> 00:35:25,833 Okay. 1747 00:35:25,833 --> 00:35:26,958 I think that's one thing 1748 00:35:26,958 --> 00:35:27,791 that some people miss 1749 00:35:27,791 --> 00:35:28,458 about the crypto 1750 00:35:28,458 --> 00:35:29,541 exchanges is like, once 1751 00:35:29,541 --> 00:35:29,958 you get over 1752 00:35:29,958 --> 00:35:32,083 a certain amount of Bitcoin, 1753 00:35:32,083 --> 00:35:32,458 you know, 1754 00:35:32,458 --> 00:35:33,208 you're going to 1755 00:35:33,208 --> 00:35:34,416 into Coinbase Vault, 1756 00:35:34,416 --> 00:35:34,916 like if you're a 1757 00:35:34,916 --> 00:35:35,791 Coinbase customer 1758 00:35:35,791 --> 00:35:37,250 and that that is actually 1759 00:35:37,250 --> 00:35:38,791 in a trust company. 1760 00:35:38,791 --> 00:35:40,166 So they own a trust company. 1761 00:35:40,166 --> 00:35:42,166 Gemini owns a trust company. 1762 00:35:42,166 --> 00:35:43,166 Bitcoin IRA owns 1763 00:35:43,166 --> 00:35:44,375 a trust company. 1764 00:35:44,375 --> 00:35:45,666 So they have segregation 1765 00:35:45,666 --> 00:35:47,833 of brokerage and custody, 1766 00:35:47,833 --> 00:35:48,958 which is how the traditional 1767 00:35:48,958 --> 00:35:50,041 finance world works. 1768 00:35:50,041 --> 00:35:50,458 And it's what 1769 00:35:50,458 --> 00:35:51,041 all of their 1770 00:35:51,041 --> 00:35:52,916 institutional customers 1771 00:35:52,916 --> 00:35:54,125 require. 1772 00:35:54,125 --> 00:35:54,625 And so I think 1773 00:35:54,625 --> 00:35:55,166 that's something 1774 00:35:55,166 --> 00:35:56,166 that a lot of people 1775 00:35:56,166 --> 00:35:56,916 miss that 1776 00:35:56,916 --> 00:35:58,833 with retirement clients, 1777 00:35:58,833 --> 00:36:00,125 with wealth manager 1778 00:36:00,125 --> 00:36:01,833 clients like we have 1779 00:36:01,833 --> 00:36:04,583 like they expect and require 1780 00:36:04,583 --> 00:36:05,250 in their due 1781 00:36:05,250 --> 00:36:06,791 diligence, separation 1782 00:36:06,791 --> 00:36:08,458 of brokerage and custody. 1783 00:36:08,458 --> 00:36:09,500 So we can't have it 1784 00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:11,250 all under one roof 1785 00:36:11,250 --> 00:36:12,000 unless we were going 1786 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:12,791 to have two different 1787 00:36:12,791 --> 00:36:14,041 ways of doing custody. 1788 00:36:15,291 --> 00:36:16,250 And so we can't do 1789 00:36:16,250 --> 00:36:17,500 it like River does, 1790 00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:18,291 and we can't do it 1791 00:36:18,291 --> 00:36:18,958 like Celsius 1792 00:36:18,958 --> 00:36:19,833 and FDX did 1793 00:36:19,833 --> 00:36:20,541 and have brokerage 1794 00:36:20,541 --> 00:36:22,250 in custody under one roof. 1795 00:36:22,250 --> 00:36:23,541 With that liability 1796 00:36:23,541 --> 00:36:24,500 of having your commingled 1797 00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:25,500 funds, 1798 00:36:25,500 --> 00:36:26,458 you know, in one place. 1799 00:36:26,458 --> 00:36:27,083 Right. 1800 00:36:27,083 --> 00:36:29,875 And, you know, I think that 1801 00:36:29,875 --> 00:36:31,166 we have to do a good job 1802 00:36:31,166 --> 00:36:32,041 of educating 1803 00:36:32,041 --> 00:36:34,291 why that's better 1804 00:36:34,291 --> 00:36:36,083 or just why that's 1805 00:36:36,083 --> 00:36:37,250 that's factual 1806 00:36:37,250 --> 00:36:37,916 and mandated 1807 00:36:37,916 --> 00:36:38,875 for the client segments 1808 00:36:38,875 --> 00:36:40,500 that we serve. 1809 00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:43,041 And, you know, and frankly, 1810 00:36:43,041 --> 00:36:44,083 the brokerage clients 1811 00:36:44,083 --> 00:36:45,166 we're trying to get them all 1812 00:36:45,166 --> 00:36:46,791 to take self-custody 1813 00:36:46,791 --> 00:36:48,083 or at least have like 1814 00:36:48,083 --> 00:36:51,083 our super elevated mega, 1815 00:36:51,166 --> 00:36:52,666 security custody 1816 00:36:52,666 --> 00:36:53,791 with that called 1817 00:36:53,791 --> 00:36:54,291 where they have to do 1818 00:36:54,291 --> 00:36:55,250 video calls and shit 1819 00:36:55,250 --> 00:36:55,708 like that. 1820 00:36:55,708 --> 00:36:56,666 So that's like, 1821 00:36:56,666 --> 00:36:57,083 you know, 1822 00:36:57,083 --> 00:36:59,458 mega secure or whatever. 1823 00:36:59,458 --> 00:37:00,458 And I think, you know, 1824 00:37:00,458 --> 00:37:01,833 somebody like 1825 00:37:01,833 --> 00:37:03,125 Unchained doesn't face that 1826 00:37:03,125 --> 00:37:04,083 because all their clients 1827 00:37:04,083 --> 00:37:04,916 are in a two out of three, 1828 00:37:04,916 --> 00:37:06,000 which I fucking love. 1829 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:06,750 It's just really hard 1830 00:37:06,750 --> 00:37:07,583 to scale. 1831 00:37:07,583 --> 00:37:07,916 Right. 1832 00:37:07,916 --> 00:37:09,833 They have they have a great 1833 00:37:09,833 --> 00:37:11,083 smaller set of clients. 1834 00:37:12,041 --> 00:37:13,250 And then otherwise, 1835 00:37:13,250 --> 00:37:14,250 you know, if you do the, 1836 00:37:14,250 --> 00:37:15,333 the full thing, 1837 00:37:15,333 --> 00:37:16,250 then you start. 1838 00:37:16,250 --> 00:37:16,791 So if you're, 1839 00:37:16,791 --> 00:37:18,000 if you're river, 1840 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,125 then you start to 1841 00:37:19,125 --> 00:37:19,916 educate people 1842 00:37:19,916 --> 00:37:20,875 on proof of reserve. 1843 00:37:20,875 --> 00:37:22,583 And you have to prove 1844 00:37:22,583 --> 00:37:24,166 sort of publicly 1845 00:37:24,166 --> 00:37:25,791 where the coins are, 1846 00:37:25,791 --> 00:37:26,125 you know, 1847 00:37:26,125 --> 00:37:26,666 and hopefully that 1848 00:37:26,666 --> 00:37:27,416 will get from, 1849 00:37:27,416 --> 00:37:27,750 you know, 1850 00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:28,666 monthly reports 1851 00:37:28,666 --> 00:37:29,916 to weekly reports 1852 00:37:29,916 --> 00:37:30,791 to daily reports 1853 00:37:30,791 --> 00:37:31,500 to real time 1854 00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:33,083 or I don't know what the 1855 00:37:33,083 --> 00:37:33,875 what the path 1856 00:37:33,875 --> 00:37:34,916 is to giving people 1857 00:37:34,916 --> 00:37:36,208 comfort of how 1858 00:37:36,208 --> 00:37:38,125 their coins are stored. 1859 00:37:38,125 --> 00:37:41,125 But I do think it, you know, 1860 00:37:41,416 --> 00:37:42,791 basically bifurcates 1861 00:37:42,791 --> 00:37:43,500 into people 1862 00:37:43,500 --> 00:37:46,250 kind of trusting somebody 1863 00:37:46,250 --> 00:37:48,583 versus trusting themselves 1864 00:37:48,583 --> 00:37:49,875 to some degree. 1865 00:37:49,875 --> 00:37:50,750 And and that is 1866 00:37:50,750 --> 00:37:51,458 why I, I just, 1867 00:37:51,458 --> 00:37:52,500 I just really like 1868 00:37:52,500 --> 00:37:53,541 the hand-holding 1869 00:37:53,541 --> 00:37:54,875 of collaborative custody. 1870 00:37:54,875 --> 00:37:55,625 And I always have 1871 00:37:55,625 --> 00:37:56,291 I've just been such 1872 00:37:56,291 --> 00:37:57,583 a huge fan 1873 00:37:57,583 --> 00:37:58,541 of Unchained approach 1874 00:37:58,541 --> 00:37:59,000 from the very 1875 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,708 beginning, back when I was, 1876 00:38:00,708 --> 00:38:01,583 like an advisor, 1877 00:38:01,583 --> 00:38:03,000 an early investor there, 1878 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,958 I just I always loved that. 1879 00:38:04,958 --> 00:38:05,833 And I think that's kind 1880 00:38:05,833 --> 00:38:08,416 of the that's the dominant, 1881 00:38:09,416 --> 00:38:10,708 you know, theoretically, 1882 00:38:10,708 --> 00:38:11,291 that's that's 1883 00:38:11,291 --> 00:38:12,750 the dominant place to be 1884 00:38:12,750 --> 00:38:15,291 is is for most people, 1885 00:38:15,291 --> 00:38:16,750 it can be easy enough 1886 00:38:16,750 --> 00:38:17,666 that the people that would 1887 00:38:17,666 --> 00:38:19,833 otherwise just choose 1888 00:38:19,833 --> 00:38:21,500 for third party custody, 1889 00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:22,875 you can get them into 1890 00:38:22,875 --> 00:38:24,000 collaborative 1891 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:24,916 where you may never 1892 00:38:24,916 --> 00:38:26,541 get those boomers 1893 00:38:26,541 --> 00:38:27,416 and I don't sorry, 1894 00:38:27,416 --> 00:38:28,250 mom and Dad, 1895 00:38:28,250 --> 00:38:28,750 you may never 1896 00:38:28,750 --> 00:38:29,750 get those people 1897 00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:30,750 that don't want to take 1898 00:38:30,750 --> 00:38:33,750 full self-custody to do it. 1899 00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:34,375 Now, this 1900 00:38:34,375 --> 00:38:36,083 entire thread is great. 1901 00:38:36,083 --> 00:38:37,458 The the the whole 1902 00:38:37,458 --> 00:38:38,500 collaborative custody thing. 1903 00:38:38,500 --> 00:38:38,833 We've 1904 00:38:38,833 --> 00:38:39,750 we've talked about this 1905 00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:40,375 a bunch. 1906 00:38:40,375 --> 00:38:41,125 We're we're, 1907 00:38:41,125 --> 00:38:42,416 we're good friends with, 1908 00:38:42,416 --> 00:38:43,666 the guys at the bitcoin 1909 00:38:43,666 --> 00:38:46,041 advisor Peter Dollars. 1910 00:38:46,041 --> 00:38:47,291 And they basically offer 1911 00:38:47,291 --> 00:38:48,333 like an extra layer 1912 00:38:48,333 --> 00:38:50,041 on, on top of this, 1913 00:38:50,041 --> 00:38:51,416 they work with Unchained 1914 00:38:51,416 --> 00:38:52,500 as well. 1915 00:38:52,500 --> 00:38:53,625 But but they, they do 1916 00:38:53,625 --> 00:38:54,250 the hand-holding 1917 00:38:54,250 --> 00:38:55,208 to get people on, 1918 00:38:55,208 --> 00:38:56,958 on there basically. And, 1919 00:38:57,916 --> 00:38:58,625 offer service. 1920 00:38:58,625 --> 00:38:59,625 By the way, 1921 00:38:59,625 --> 00:39:00,833 I like those guys. 1922 00:39:00,833 --> 00:39:03,625 There's another example. 1923 00:39:03,625 --> 00:39:04,791 Every single person 1924 00:39:04,791 --> 00:39:06,666 that signs up at say, 1925 00:39:06,666 --> 00:39:07,750 like you're automatically 1926 00:39:07,750 --> 00:39:09,250 into a multi-sig. 1927 00:39:09,250 --> 00:39:11,250 Yeah. Like, I know. 1928 00:39:11,250 --> 00:39:12,416 Your phone is a key. 1929 00:39:12,416 --> 00:39:12,833 And then 1930 00:39:12,833 --> 00:39:14,333 and I think they work with, 1931 00:39:14,333 --> 00:39:15,125 with the BTC 1932 00:39:15,125 --> 00:39:16,166 advisor guys too. 1933 00:39:16,166 --> 00:39:17,291 And like, it's really easy 1934 00:39:17,291 --> 00:39:18,500 to kind of tee up 1935 00:39:18,500 --> 00:39:20,125 somebody from Peter's squad 1936 00:39:20,125 --> 00:39:21,000 as, like a key 1937 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:21,750 agent or something 1938 00:39:21,750 --> 00:39:22,458 like that. 1939 00:39:22,458 --> 00:39:23,458 We talk to those guys too. 1940 00:39:23,458 --> 00:39:24,458 I love them and like, 1941 00:39:24,458 --> 00:39:25,041 I think we'll 1942 00:39:25,041 --> 00:39:26,083 probably figure out 1943 00:39:26,083 --> 00:39:27,708 how to integrate with that 1944 00:39:27,708 --> 00:39:29,375 at some point. 1945 00:39:29,375 --> 00:39:30,250 It's it's great. 1946 00:39:30,250 --> 00:39:30,666 And I mean, 1947 00:39:30,666 --> 00:39:31,583 the only reason I mentioned 1948 00:39:31,583 --> 00:39:34,375 it is, is just that they, 1949 00:39:34,375 --> 00:39:35,333 like, basically they, 1950 00:39:35,333 --> 00:39:35,750 they make it 1951 00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:36,291 one step 1952 00:39:36,291 --> 00:39:37,375 even easier, 1953 00:39:37,375 --> 00:39:38,000 the kind of 1954 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,208 hand-holding of people 1955 00:39:39,208 --> 00:39:40,416 who want that kind of thing. 1956 00:39:40,416 --> 00:39:41,958 And I mean, yeah, 1957 00:39:41,958 --> 00:39:42,666 there's sort of this 1958 00:39:42,666 --> 00:39:43,375 sort of mix. 1959 00:39:43,375 --> 00:39:44,083 It's it's it's 1960 00:39:44,083 --> 00:39:45,041 something that does actually 1961 00:39:45,041 --> 00:39:46,500 still give you control, 1962 00:39:46,500 --> 00:39:49,500 but, but you have help. 1963 00:39:49,750 --> 00:39:50,750 You have help something, 1964 00:39:50,750 --> 00:39:51,625 something like that. 1965 00:39:51,625 --> 00:39:52,458 But you touched 1966 00:39:52,458 --> 00:39:53,416 on something, 1967 00:39:53,416 --> 00:39:54,333 really interesting. 1968 00:39:54,333 --> 00:39:55,208 And this is the 1969 00:39:55,208 --> 00:39:56,375 the Coinbase custody, 1970 00:39:56,375 --> 00:39:57,208 the Coinbase vault. 1971 00:39:57,208 --> 00:39:57,750 And I mean, 1972 00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:59,000 this is, as I understand it, 1973 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,125 where the majority 1974 00:40:00,125 --> 00:40:00,958 of the ETFs, 1975 00:40:00,958 --> 00:40:01,458 in fact, 1976 00:40:01,458 --> 00:40:02,875 all by the couple are, 1977 00:40:02,875 --> 00:40:05,041 are with Coinbase basically. 1978 00:40:05,041 --> 00:40:05,750 And is 1979 00:40:05,750 --> 00:40:06,750 is that a big 1980 00:40:06,750 --> 00:40:08,291 centralization risk. 1981 00:40:08,291 --> 00:40:09,083 Do you see this as 1982 00:40:09,083 --> 00:40:11,000 as similar systemically 1983 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:11,916 to well, 1984 00:40:11,916 --> 00:40:12,833 everything you talked about 1985 00:40:12,833 --> 00:40:13,875 with the 1986 00:40:13,875 --> 00:40:15,083 the micro strategies 1987 00:40:15,083 --> 00:40:15,875 and all this. 1988 00:40:15,875 --> 00:40:16,166 What do you 1989 00:40:16,166 --> 00:40:16,791 think about this? 1990 00:40:21,416 --> 00:40:24,416 It will diversify over time. 1991 00:40:24,625 --> 00:40:26,125 It was much easier 1992 00:40:26,125 --> 00:40:27,125 for them to all do 1993 00:40:27,125 --> 00:40:30,125 just Coinbase initially. 1994 00:40:30,166 --> 00:40:31,708 I think there are other 1995 00:40:31,708 --> 00:40:34,458 other reputable custodians 1996 00:40:34,458 --> 00:40:35,041 that are 1997 00:40:35,041 --> 00:40:36,208 getting pieces of these 1998 00:40:36,208 --> 00:40:36,625 and we'll, 1999 00:40:36,625 --> 00:40:37,041 we'll take 2000 00:40:37,041 --> 00:40:38,625 some of that share, 2001 00:40:38,625 --> 00:40:41,625 in the next year or two. 2002 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,250 And then I also think that, 2003 00:40:44,250 --> 00:40:44,583 you know, 2004 00:40:44,583 --> 00:40:46,750 they will be going into 2005 00:40:46,750 --> 00:40:48,375 multi-sig setups as well, 2006 00:40:48,375 --> 00:40:49,166 if they're not already. 2007 00:40:49,166 --> 00:40:50,125 And, you know, 2008 00:40:50,125 --> 00:40:50,500 kind of 2009 00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:51,416 they're probably already 2010 00:40:51,416 --> 00:40:52,375 in Multi-sig. 2011 00:40:52,375 --> 00:40:53,125 I would guess 2012 00:40:53,125 --> 00:40:54,000 that MicroStrategy 2013 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,833 probably is in a multi-sig, 2014 00:40:56,833 --> 00:40:57,500 with all of their 2015 00:40:57,500 --> 00:40:58,791 institutional relationships. 2016 00:40:58,791 --> 00:40:59,333 And I would 2017 00:40:59,333 --> 00:41:00,250 I would get that, 2018 00:41:00,250 --> 00:41:01,041 that they probably hold 2019 00:41:01,041 --> 00:41:01,916 the majority of the keys 2020 00:41:01,916 --> 00:41:04,916 in those setups to, 2021 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,000 so, you know, 2022 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,375 shades of gray. 2023 00:41:07,375 --> 00:41:07,833 It's not all 2024 00:41:07,833 --> 00:41:09,500 black and white. 2025 00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:12,500 I remain, 2026 00:41:12,791 --> 00:41:14,166 as I have since 2027 00:41:14,166 --> 00:41:15,958 since the launch of Swan. 2028 00:41:15,958 --> 00:41:18,291 There's only one entity 2029 00:41:18,291 --> 00:41:19,083 on the planet 2030 00:41:19,083 --> 00:41:20,750 that can really make things 2031 00:41:20,750 --> 00:41:22,166 ugly and dark 2032 00:41:22,166 --> 00:41:23,916 for Bitcoin and Bitcoiners. 2033 00:41:23,916 --> 00:41:25,041 For some period of time, 2034 00:41:25,041 --> 00:41:25,458 they'd still 2035 00:41:25,458 --> 00:41:26,500 lose in the end. 2036 00:41:26,500 --> 00:41:27,125 But it's only 2037 00:41:27,125 --> 00:41:27,875 the state Department 2038 00:41:27,875 --> 00:41:29,500 of the United States 2039 00:41:29,500 --> 00:41:30,458 that's the only 2040 00:41:31,708 --> 00:41:33,416 that's the only entity that 2041 00:41:33,416 --> 00:41:35,000 could coordinate something 2042 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:35,958 internationally 2043 00:41:35,958 --> 00:41:37,791 to make things suck. 2044 00:41:37,791 --> 00:41:38,208 And I 2045 00:41:38,208 --> 00:41:41,000 don't think that, like, 2046 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,708 it's not a risk anytime soon 2047 00:41:42,708 --> 00:41:43,666 because we can see 2048 00:41:43,666 --> 00:41:44,666 the world that we live in 2049 00:41:44,666 --> 00:41:45,541 and the way that 2050 00:41:45,541 --> 00:41:46,583 politics are working. 2051 00:41:46,583 --> 00:41:47,875 So something 2052 00:41:47,875 --> 00:41:48,958 dramatic would have to 2053 00:41:48,958 --> 00:41:50,708 change, like, 2054 00:41:50,708 --> 00:41:51,833 a big social change 2055 00:41:51,833 --> 00:41:52,375 in the US 2056 00:41:52,375 --> 00:41:53,750 that changes the government 2057 00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:54,208 and how 2058 00:41:54,208 --> 00:41:55,875 the government works. 2059 00:41:55,875 --> 00:41:57,625 For me to really assign 2060 00:41:57,625 --> 00:41:59,083 a large risk 2061 00:41:59,083 --> 00:42:01,958 to something like that. 2062 00:42:01,958 --> 00:42:02,666 And you know what? 2063 00:42:02,666 --> 00:42:03,083 If they 2064 00:42:03,083 --> 00:42:04,083 nationalized the coins 2065 00:42:04,083 --> 00:42:07,083 in 61 or 2, it. 2066 00:42:07,291 --> 00:42:07,916 Just be glad 2067 00:42:07,916 --> 00:42:10,250 you have self-custody coins, 2068 00:42:10,250 --> 00:42:10,750 you know, 2069 00:42:10,750 --> 00:42:11,708 and if they want to 2070 00:42:11,708 --> 00:42:12,708 take some of the ETF 2071 00:42:12,708 --> 00:42:13,625 coins, like, 2072 00:42:13,625 --> 00:42:14,000 you know, 2073 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:14,458 that'll suck 2074 00:42:14,458 --> 00:42:16,541 for the ETF holders. 2075 00:42:16,541 --> 00:42:16,916 Yeah. 2076 00:42:16,916 --> 00:42:17,541 Trying to wrap 2077 00:42:17,541 --> 00:42:18,416 my head around that. 2078 00:42:18,416 --> 00:42:20,125 Like, would 2079 00:42:20,125 --> 00:42:21,000 it's one thing 2080 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,083 that the institution itself 2081 00:42:23,083 --> 00:42:25,208 has an incentive to do that. 2082 00:42:25,208 --> 00:42:26,666 But how 2083 00:42:26,666 --> 00:42:27,916 how do we get to a point 2084 00:42:27,916 --> 00:42:29,166 where all the people 2085 00:42:29,166 --> 00:42:30,291 in the institution 2086 00:42:30,291 --> 00:42:31,166 have the incentive 2087 00:42:31,166 --> 00:42:31,708 to do that, 2088 00:42:31,708 --> 00:42:33,166 because they at that point 2089 00:42:33,166 --> 00:42:34,541 they will probably be 2090 00:42:34,541 --> 00:42:36,208 have some exposure 2091 00:42:36,208 --> 00:42:37,291 to Bitcoin themselves. 2092 00:42:37,291 --> 00:42:37,583 Right? 2093 00:42:37,583 --> 00:42:39,916 It's very unlikely 2094 00:42:39,916 --> 00:42:41,166 that they won't. 2095 00:42:41,166 --> 00:42:41,875 And which means 2096 00:42:41,875 --> 00:42:42,958 they don't have an incentive 2097 00:42:42,958 --> 00:42:44,125 to ever pull that off. 2098 00:42:45,375 --> 00:42:45,833 What are your thoughts. 2099 00:42:45,833 --> 00:42:46,125 Yeah. 2100 00:42:46,125 --> 00:42:47,875 That's that's that's why 2101 00:42:47,875 --> 00:42:49,500 we think of institutions 2102 00:42:49,500 --> 00:42:51,875 as being made up of people 2103 00:42:51,875 --> 00:42:52,416 and people 2104 00:42:52,416 --> 00:42:53,791 who come into contact 2105 00:42:53,791 --> 00:42:55,250 with Bitcoin. 2106 00:42:55,250 --> 00:42:55,625 You know, 2107 00:42:55,625 --> 00:42:57,291 even if they were feds once, 2108 00:42:57,291 --> 00:42:59,458 they often become crypto 2109 00:42:59,458 --> 00:43:01,791 GPUs within a few years 2110 00:43:01,791 --> 00:43:02,666 with big bag 2111 00:43:02,666 --> 00:43:04,875 holdings of Bitcoin. 2112 00:43:04,875 --> 00:43:05,333 Yeah. 2113 00:43:05,333 --> 00:43:05,791 Who was 2114 00:43:05,791 --> 00:43:06,958 it was a Greenspan 2115 00:43:06,958 --> 00:43:07,625 that turned from 2116 00:43:07,625 --> 00:43:08,666 an Austrian economist 2117 00:43:08,666 --> 00:43:10,791 to a central banker. 2118 00:43:10,791 --> 00:43:12,000 Was one of the. 2119 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,541 Well, who was it? 2120 00:43:13,541 --> 00:43:14,833 I don't remember who it was, 2121 00:43:14,833 --> 00:43:15,416 but like 2122 00:43:15,416 --> 00:43:16,583 but the Bitcoin is doing 2123 00:43:16,583 --> 00:43:17,750 the opposite. It's my point. 2124 00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:18,416 Like it's 2125 00:43:18,416 --> 00:43:19,041 turning people 2126 00:43:19,041 --> 00:43:21,083 from central banking to, 2127 00:43:21,083 --> 00:43:22,000 to proper, 2128 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:22,791 proper 2129 00:43:22,791 --> 00:43:23,791 understanding of 2130 00:43:23,791 --> 00:43:25,833 how human beings work. 2131 00:43:25,833 --> 00:43:28,000 Yeah. 2132 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:28,708 So do you think. 2133 00:43:28,708 --> 00:43:29,375 This next 2134 00:43:29,375 --> 00:43:30,291 four years 2135 00:43:30,291 --> 00:43:31,708 gets us over 2136 00:43:31,708 --> 00:43:33,000 the hump politically? 2137 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,250 Realistically, like Trump 2138 00:43:35,250 --> 00:43:36,208 being in office 2139 00:43:36,208 --> 00:43:37,583 for four years 2140 00:43:37,583 --> 00:43:38,875 and likely 2141 00:43:38,875 --> 00:43:39,833 the executive 2142 00:43:39,833 --> 00:43:40,916 side of the administration 2143 00:43:40,916 --> 00:43:42,833 isn't at least opposing 2144 00:43:42,833 --> 00:43:44,125 Bitcoin. 2145 00:43:44,125 --> 00:43:45,708 So does that 2146 00:43:45,708 --> 00:43:46,833 does that actually give us 2147 00:43:46,833 --> 00:43:48,208 enough time, enough momentum 2148 00:43:48,208 --> 00:43:49,458 to really not have to 2149 00:43:49,458 --> 00:43:50,291 worry about this? 2150 00:43:50,291 --> 00:43:50,666 Because it 2151 00:43:50,666 --> 00:43:52,583 after a certain point, 2152 00:43:52,583 --> 00:43:53,458 really, is any of this 2153 00:43:53,458 --> 00:43:54,708 going to matter? 2154 00:43:54,708 --> 00:43:55,000 What do you do? 2155 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,541 You got 23 months. 2156 00:43:57,541 --> 00:43:58,500 What's going to get done? 2157 00:43:58,500 --> 00:43:59,125 We'll get done in the 2158 00:43:59,125 --> 00:44:00,208 next 23 months. 2159 00:44:01,708 --> 00:44:03,041 And it's a 2160 00:44:03,041 --> 00:44:04,250 matter of priorities. 2161 00:44:04,250 --> 00:44:05,333 Like, you know, how 2162 00:44:05,333 --> 00:44:06,208 how much is attention 2163 00:44:06,208 --> 00:44:07,916 going to be on on Bitcoin 2164 00:44:07,916 --> 00:44:08,625 and how much is it 2165 00:44:08,625 --> 00:44:09,916 going to be on, 2166 00:44:09,916 --> 00:44:10,583 you know, Department 2167 00:44:10,583 --> 00:44:11,083 of Government 2168 00:44:11,083 --> 00:44:14,083 efficiency and, you know, 2169 00:44:14,541 --> 00:44:16,458 rehashing old, old 2170 00:44:16,458 --> 00:44:17,583 wounds from various 2171 00:44:17,583 --> 00:44:18,500 political enemies, 2172 00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:19,625 things like that. 2173 00:44:19,625 --> 00:44:20,250 Just depends on 2174 00:44:20,250 --> 00:44:22,583 where the energy goes. 2175 00:44:22,583 --> 00:44:23,166 One thing 2176 00:44:23,166 --> 00:44:24,625 that I think any, 2177 00:44:24,625 --> 00:44:25,583 any impartial 2178 00:44:25,583 --> 00:44:26,958 observer can see about Trump 2179 00:44:26,958 --> 00:44:27,708 is he really likes 2180 00:44:27,708 --> 00:44:28,500 numbers go up 2181 00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:30,291 and he likes being, 2182 00:44:30,291 --> 00:44:31,375 credited for a number 2183 00:44:31,375 --> 00:44:32,416 going up. 2184 00:44:32,416 --> 00:44:34,500 And, you know, the 2185 00:44:34,500 --> 00:44:35,541 the I wouldn't 2186 00:44:35,541 --> 00:44:37,416 say the whispers, the shouts 2187 00:44:37,416 --> 00:44:38,666 out of the administration, 2188 00:44:38,666 --> 00:44:39,833 the incoming administration 2189 00:44:39,833 --> 00:44:40,250 are that 2190 00:44:40,250 --> 00:44:40,958 he really wants 2191 00:44:40,958 --> 00:44:43,416 to see Bitcoin 150 K 2192 00:44:43,416 --> 00:44:46,416 as soon as possible. 2193 00:44:46,875 --> 00:44:47,916 Yeah I saw. 2194 00:44:47,916 --> 00:44:48,583 Trump. 2195 00:44:48,583 --> 00:44:49,750 Yeah I saw Eric 2196 00:44:49,750 --> 00:44:51,500 Trump in Bitcoin 2197 00:44:51,500 --> 00:44:53,083 may not in Abu Dhabi. 2198 00:44:53,083 --> 00:44:54,208 You're talking about 2199 00:44:54,208 --> 00:44:55,291 like he's 2200 00:44:55,291 --> 00:44:56,916 halfway there Maxie. 2201 00:44:56,916 --> 00:44:57,541 Like he's 2202 00:44:57,541 --> 00:44:59,250 still a crypto guy. 2203 00:44:59,250 --> 00:45:00,291 But listen. 2204 00:45:00,291 --> 00:45:01,541 Yeah he he seems. 2205 00:45:01,541 --> 00:45:02,750 Like he gets it. Yeah. 2206 00:45:02,750 --> 00:45:03,125 He wasn't 2207 00:45:03,125 --> 00:45:04,000 speaking from notes. 2208 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,625 It was pretty town. Like he. 2209 00:45:05,625 --> 00:45:07,708 You gets what Bitcoin is 2210 00:45:07,708 --> 00:45:09,833 and talking about it 2211 00:45:09,833 --> 00:45:11,791 I mean it was like that. 2212 00:45:11,791 --> 00:45:12,625 That was actually 2213 00:45:12,625 --> 00:45:13,375 pretty impressive. 2214 00:45:13,375 --> 00:45:14,000 Somebody sent it to me 2215 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:14,875 I was at the airport 2216 00:45:14,875 --> 00:45:15,375 last night 2217 00:45:15,375 --> 00:45:15,958 I just watched 2218 00:45:15,958 --> 00:45:16,375 I don't know 2219 00:45:16,375 --> 00:45:16,958 how long it was, 2220 00:45:16,958 --> 00:45:17,375 but I watched 2221 00:45:17,375 --> 00:45:18,291 the three minute clip of it 2222 00:45:18,291 --> 00:45:19,250 and I was like, 2223 00:45:19,250 --> 00:45:19,833 that was actually 2224 00:45:19,833 --> 00:45:21,458 a lot better than like, 2225 00:45:21,458 --> 00:45:22,416 RFK two's 2226 00:45:22,416 --> 00:45:23,750 first Bitcoin speech. 2227 00:45:25,583 --> 00:45:26,250 Yeah, because 2228 00:45:26,250 --> 00:45:27,416 I mean, first of all, 2229 00:45:27,416 --> 00:45:28,458 it wasn't written for him 2230 00:45:28,458 --> 00:45:29,750 by somebody else, 2231 00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:30,708 which is nice. 2232 00:45:30,708 --> 00:45:31,625 Or maybe it was, 2233 00:45:31,625 --> 00:45:32,916 but he delivered it 2234 00:45:32,916 --> 00:45:34,875 at least. 2235 00:45:34,875 --> 00:45:36,000 So it was pretty frickin 2236 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,041 good. 2237 00:45:38,041 --> 00:45:38,500 Yeah. 2238 00:45:38,500 --> 00:45:39,208 It's it's 2239 00:45:39,208 --> 00:45:40,500 a fascinating time. Where. 2240 00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:42,291 And but the reason I say 2241 00:45:42,291 --> 00:45:44,208 23 months is because, 2242 00:45:44,208 --> 00:45:46,000 there will be a new Congress 2243 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,291 in 26 most presidents 2244 00:45:49,291 --> 00:45:50,375 that are lame duck 2245 00:45:50,375 --> 00:45:51,375 presidents, essentially 2246 00:45:51,375 --> 00:45:52,375 because they can only serve 2247 00:45:52,375 --> 00:45:52,875 one term. 2248 00:45:52,875 --> 00:45:53,416 He's not running 2249 00:45:53,416 --> 00:45:54,583 for reelection. 2250 00:45:54,583 --> 00:45:55,500 So basically has 2251 00:45:55,500 --> 00:45:56,541 the first two years 2252 00:45:56,541 --> 00:45:57,791 to push through anything 2253 00:45:57,791 --> 00:45:59,500 that he really cares about. 2254 00:45:59,500 --> 00:46:00,791 And, you know, 2255 00:46:00,791 --> 00:46:03,041 nothing happens in December, 2256 00:46:03,041 --> 00:46:03,375 you know, 2257 00:46:03,375 --> 00:46:04,375 before the new Congress 2258 00:46:04,375 --> 00:46:05,000 comes in. 2259 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,250 So it's 2260 00:46:06,250 --> 00:46:07,041 it's probably really 2261 00:46:07,041 --> 00:46:09,041 just through Election Day 2262 00:46:09,041 --> 00:46:09,583 in early 2263 00:46:09,583 --> 00:46:12,583 November of 26 is the time, 2264 00:46:12,875 --> 00:46:14,541 but something that's on 2265 00:46:14,541 --> 00:46:15,791 on the menu 2266 00:46:15,791 --> 00:46:17,000 that I really didn't 2267 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:18,041 think would be on the menu 2268 00:46:18,041 --> 00:46:19,541 for another decade 2269 00:46:19,541 --> 00:46:21,375 is, getting rid of cap 2270 00:46:21,375 --> 00:46:22,375 gains tax in the US, 2271 00:46:22,375 --> 00:46:23,458 which is by far 2272 00:46:23,458 --> 00:46:24,833 the number one thing 2273 00:46:24,833 --> 00:46:26,166 that would change 2274 00:46:26,166 --> 00:46:27,750 Bitcoin dramatically. 2275 00:46:27,750 --> 00:46:29,000 It would be a huge 2276 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,541 step change 2277 00:46:30,541 --> 00:46:32,666 for Bitcoin number go up. 2278 00:46:32,666 --> 00:46:34,250 It would bring about Bitcoin 2279 00:46:34,250 --> 00:46:35,458 as a medium of exchange 2280 00:46:35,458 --> 00:46:36,083 ten years 2281 00:46:36,083 --> 00:46:37,041 earlier than whatever 2282 00:46:37,041 --> 00:46:39,125 your forecasts are. 2283 00:46:39,125 --> 00:46:39,875 Mine keep getting 2284 00:46:39,875 --> 00:46:40,500 pushed out. 2285 00:46:40,500 --> 00:46:41,666 I think I used to talk about 2286 00:46:41,666 --> 00:46:42,208 maybe we'll see 2287 00:46:42,208 --> 00:46:43,500 wide media change 2288 00:46:43,500 --> 00:46:45,500 by like 2030 to then. 2289 00:46:45,500 --> 00:46:46,583 I think earlier this year 2290 00:46:46,583 --> 00:46:47,833 I was saying 2035. 2291 00:46:47,833 --> 00:46:49,750 Now I'm probably like 2038. 2292 00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:52,250 But it can start happening 2293 00:46:52,250 --> 00:46:52,916 this decade 2294 00:46:52,916 --> 00:46:53,583 if you get rid of cap 2295 00:46:53,583 --> 00:46:55,041 gains tax. 2296 00:46:55,041 --> 00:46:55,250 Yeah. 2297 00:46:55,250 --> 00:46:55,625 And that 2298 00:46:55,625 --> 00:46:57,208 that would be huge 2299 00:46:57,208 --> 00:46:59,625 2 to 2 years a Trump word 2300 00:46:59,625 --> 00:47:02,541 like you know, why are you 2301 00:47:02,541 --> 00:47:03,458 like huge. 2302 00:47:04,875 --> 00:47:05,541 No it will be. 2303 00:47:05,541 --> 00:47:06,083 Absolutely. 2304 00:47:06,083 --> 00:47:07,000 I just hope 2305 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,083 that he doesn't 2306 00:47:08,083 --> 00:47:10,791 replace Texas with tariffs. 2307 00:47:10,791 --> 00:47:11,541 But but 2308 00:47:11,541 --> 00:47:12,833 this starts of removing 2309 00:47:12,833 --> 00:47:15,125 those two at some point 2310 00:47:15,125 --> 00:47:17,750 because like, 2311 00:47:17,750 --> 00:47:20,708 no, but but still it's, it's 2312 00:47:20,708 --> 00:47:21,625 everything points 2313 00:47:21,625 --> 00:47:24,083 to, to this being 2314 00:47:24,083 --> 00:47:25,166 having a real potential 2315 00:47:25,166 --> 00:47:26,250 of making some change here. 2316 00:47:26,250 --> 00:47:27,666 But especially 2317 00:47:27,666 --> 00:47:29,458 I think Trump's kids, 2318 00:47:29,458 --> 00:47:31,291 being so positive, 2319 00:47:31,291 --> 00:47:33,250 it's not only, 2320 00:47:33,250 --> 00:47:34,291 the guy that has spoken 2321 00:47:34,291 --> 00:47:35,250 in Abu Dhabi, 2322 00:47:35,250 --> 00:47:37,000 it's also Barron Trump. 2323 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,041 It's an, it's name. 2324 00:47:38,041 --> 00:47:39,541 Barron. 2325 00:47:39,541 --> 00:47:41,541 The younger one, 2326 00:47:41,541 --> 00:47:42,166 And Danny's 2327 00:47:42,166 --> 00:47:42,958 making bank off 2328 00:47:42,958 --> 00:47:44,166 of crypto scams. 2329 00:47:44,166 --> 00:47:45,750 So, you know, like, 2330 00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:46,500 you have to at least 2331 00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:47,583 be nice to Bitcoin 2332 00:47:47,583 --> 00:47:48,291 if you're going to scam 2333 00:47:48,291 --> 00:47:49,500 in crypto. 2334 00:47:49,500 --> 00:47:50,708 Yeah. 2335 00:47:50,708 --> 00:47:54,166 It's so you know so so yeah 2336 00:47:54,166 --> 00:47:54,875 fingers crossed. 2337 00:47:54,875 --> 00:47:56,500 We know Jared. 2338 00:47:56,500 --> 00:47:57,500 Ivanka as has been 2339 00:47:57,500 --> 00:47:58,500 Jared knows a shitload 2340 00:47:58,500 --> 00:47:59,083 about Bitcoin 2341 00:47:59,083 --> 00:47:59,750 and owns a ton. 2342 00:48:01,625 --> 00:48:02,000 Yeah. 2343 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:03,500 And this this is the 2344 00:48:03,500 --> 00:48:04,583 this is the fun part. 2345 00:48:04,583 --> 00:48:05,708 Like there 2346 00:48:05,708 --> 00:48:07,250 there is a Bitcoin 2347 00:48:07,250 --> 00:48:07,916 everywhere. 2348 00:48:07,916 --> 00:48:08,916 Like in every 2349 00:48:08,916 --> 00:48:10,833 social construct 2350 00:48:10,833 --> 00:48:11,583 around the world. 2351 00:48:11,583 --> 00:48:13,083 No matter if it's 2352 00:48:13,083 --> 00:48:13,958 head of the 2353 00:48:13,958 --> 00:48:15,041 if it's like, 2354 00:48:15,041 --> 00:48:16,958 months of party or, 2355 00:48:16,958 --> 00:48:19,875 corporation or, 2356 00:48:19,875 --> 00:48:20,833 a football team, 2357 00:48:20,833 --> 00:48:22,625 there's always one guy 2358 00:48:22,625 --> 00:48:23,250 that can't 2359 00:48:23,250 --> 00:48:24,833 shut up about Bitcoin. 2360 00:48:24,833 --> 00:48:25,791 And that guy keeps 2361 00:48:25,791 --> 00:48:26,833 being right over 2362 00:48:26,833 --> 00:48:27,833 and over again. 2363 00:48:27,833 --> 00:48:28,791 The sooner or later 2364 00:48:28,791 --> 00:48:29,333 everyone's going to 2365 00:48:29,333 --> 00:48:29,875 listen to him. 2366 00:48:29,875 --> 00:48:30,583 Guys, guys, 2367 00:48:30,583 --> 00:48:33,416 what is our identity 2368 00:48:33,416 --> 00:48:35,208 going forward if we've won 2369 00:48:35,208 --> 00:48:35,666 and we can't 2370 00:48:35,666 --> 00:48:36,291 just be like this 2371 00:48:36,291 --> 00:48:37,500 misanthrope in the corner, 2372 00:48:37,500 --> 00:48:38,541 like, 2373 00:48:38,541 --> 00:48:39,375 you know, 2374 00:48:39,375 --> 00:48:40,291 like, like, 2375 00:48:40,291 --> 00:48:41,333 do we just get to be normal 2376 00:48:41,333 --> 00:48:42,208 humans again? 2377 00:48:42,208 --> 00:48:42,458 It's. 2378 00:48:42,458 --> 00:48:43,708 Well, I'm an honorary. 2379 00:48:43,708 --> 00:48:45,500 It's that I'm an honorary 2380 00:48:45,500 --> 00:48:47,250 Seattleites, remember? 2381 00:48:47,250 --> 00:48:48,583 I wear that as a badge. 2382 00:48:48,583 --> 00:48:49,375 Yeah. So? 2383 00:48:49,375 --> 00:48:50,875 So I still have an identity 2384 00:48:50,875 --> 00:48:51,833 after after 2385 00:48:51,833 --> 00:48:53,458 hyperbolic conversation. 2386 00:48:53,458 --> 00:48:55,375 I like it, I like it. 2387 00:48:55,375 --> 00:48:55,666 Yeah. 2388 00:48:55,666 --> 00:48:56,291 It's, 2389 00:48:56,291 --> 00:48:57,750 it is much more pleasant 2390 00:48:57,750 --> 00:48:59,250 to just 2391 00:48:59,250 --> 00:48:59,791 be around 2392 00:48:59,791 --> 00:49:01,250 other people, 2393 00:49:01,250 --> 00:49:02,000 in person 2394 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:02,458 coming out of 2395 00:49:02,458 --> 00:49:04,166 Covid, bitcoins winning. 2396 00:49:04,166 --> 00:49:05,458 Everybody's interested. 2397 00:49:05,458 --> 00:49:06,750 Like, it's it is kind of, 2398 00:49:08,791 --> 00:49:09,416 you know, I 2399 00:49:09,416 --> 00:49:09,916 because I 2400 00:49:09,916 --> 00:49:10,166 had a 2401 00:49:10,166 --> 00:49:12,583 social professional circle, 2402 00:49:12,583 --> 00:49:13,708 for so long 2403 00:49:13,708 --> 00:49:14,541 in, like, West 2404 00:49:14,541 --> 00:49:16,125 Coast tech and, you know, 2405 00:49:16,125 --> 00:49:17,250 with venture capital 2406 00:49:17,250 --> 00:49:18,291 and startup founders 2407 00:49:18,291 --> 00:49:19,750 and putting on events 2408 00:49:19,750 --> 00:49:20,750 and going to events 2409 00:49:20,750 --> 00:49:21,958 and raising money and, 2410 00:49:21,958 --> 00:49:22,250 you know, 2411 00:49:22,250 --> 00:49:23,333 investing in companies 2412 00:49:23,333 --> 00:49:24,041 and all this stuff, 2413 00:49:24,041 --> 00:49:25,583 and it's like 2414 00:49:25,583 --> 00:49:27,125 you get into Bitcoin 2415 00:49:27,125 --> 00:49:27,500 and it's a 2416 00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:28,791 completely different 2417 00:49:28,791 --> 00:49:29,333 set of people 2418 00:49:29,333 --> 00:49:30,291 with no overlap 2419 00:49:30,291 --> 00:49:32,458 for all that time. 2420 00:49:32,458 --> 00:49:35,125 And now it's like 2421 00:49:35,125 --> 00:49:36,458 everybody's back 2422 00:49:36,458 --> 00:49:38,125 and you can hang out 2423 00:49:38,125 --> 00:49:38,500 with them 2424 00:49:38,500 --> 00:49:40,166 for you can get the benefits 2425 00:49:40,166 --> 00:49:41,166 of reconnecting 2426 00:49:41,166 --> 00:49:42,750 with your friends 2427 00:49:42,750 --> 00:49:43,750 and a lot more people 2428 00:49:43,750 --> 00:49:44,833 that you like to see, 2429 00:49:44,833 --> 00:49:45,833 but you didn't have the time 2430 00:49:45,833 --> 00:49:46,500 to keep up with. 2431 00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:47,041 Like I kept my 2432 00:49:47,041 --> 00:49:48,416 closest friends, 2433 00:49:48,416 --> 00:49:49,041 but now, like 2434 00:49:49,041 --> 00:49:49,708 just rolling 2435 00:49:49,708 --> 00:49:50,875 through New York, 2436 00:49:50,875 --> 00:49:51,708 like everybody 2437 00:49:51,708 --> 00:49:52,250 will come out. 2438 00:49:52,250 --> 00:49:52,750 If you say you're 2439 00:49:52,750 --> 00:49:53,333 getting together, 2440 00:49:53,333 --> 00:49:53,583 you know, 2441 00:49:53,583 --> 00:49:54,458 some Wall Street people 2442 00:49:54,458 --> 00:49:55,041 and some Bitcoin 2443 00:49:55,041 --> 00:49:56,166 people and like, 2444 00:49:56,166 --> 00:49:57,208 everybody will come out 2445 00:49:57,208 --> 00:49:58,166 and they're coming in from, 2446 00:49:58,166 --> 00:49:59,083 you know, wherever they live 2447 00:49:59,083 --> 00:49:59,708 with their families 2448 00:49:59,708 --> 00:50:00,500 now in new Jersey 2449 00:50:00,500 --> 00:50:01,166 or Brooklyn 2450 00:50:01,166 --> 00:50:02,875 or downtown or whatever. 2451 00:50:02,875 --> 00:50:03,500 And they'll 2452 00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:04,041 they'll meet up 2453 00:50:04,041 --> 00:50:04,708 for an evening. 2454 00:50:04,708 --> 00:50:06,000 And, and it's, 2455 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:07,083 it's just different. 2456 00:50:07,083 --> 00:50:08,750 And, and you're not 2457 00:50:08,750 --> 00:50:10,166 like bending their ear 2458 00:50:10,166 --> 00:50:11,375 to talk about bitcoin. 2459 00:50:11,375 --> 00:50:12,083 They're there to 2460 00:50:12,083 --> 00:50:13,041 talk about bitcoin. 2461 00:50:15,375 --> 00:50:16,166 Fantastic. 2462 00:50:16,166 --> 00:50:17,833 So so speaking of like 2463 00:50:17,833 --> 00:50:19,166 what are you looking forward 2464 00:50:19,166 --> 00:50:20,458 to the most like this 2465 00:50:20,458 --> 00:50:21,708 this upcoming year here. 2466 00:50:21,708 --> 00:50:24,708 Like whoa. 2467 00:50:26,750 --> 00:50:27,583 I mean, from a, 2468 00:50:27,583 --> 00:50:29,333 from a business standpoint, 2469 00:50:29,333 --> 00:50:30,958 just executing 2470 00:50:30,958 --> 00:50:33,083 because we were so fresh 2471 00:50:33,083 --> 00:50:34,875 and so new, 2472 00:50:34,875 --> 00:50:35,541 you know, the 2473 00:50:35,541 --> 00:50:38,541 like the retail peak for, 2474 00:50:40,041 --> 00:50:40,708 for retail 2475 00:50:40,708 --> 00:50:42,500 buying was like May 2476 00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:43,416 the price peak 2477 00:50:43,416 --> 00:50:44,750 was April of 21 2478 00:50:44,750 --> 00:50:45,625 and the retail 2479 00:50:45,625 --> 00:50:47,333 interest peak was May. 2480 00:50:47,333 --> 00:50:48,083 And then there was like 2481 00:50:48,083 --> 00:50:50,000 a leverage scam 2482 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:50,875 echo bubble 2483 00:50:50,875 --> 00:50:51,791 later in the year 2484 00:50:51,791 --> 00:50:54,666 basically to pump Solana. 2485 00:50:54,666 --> 00:50:56,750 You know, so 2486 00:50:56,750 --> 00:50:58,583 we basically missed it 2487 00:50:58,583 --> 00:51:00,208 because we were just just 2488 00:51:00,208 --> 00:51:02,666 DCA savings plans for 2020. 2489 00:51:02,666 --> 00:51:04,291 We started taking wires 2490 00:51:04,291 --> 00:51:05,000 in like November 2491 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,583 or December of 2020. 2492 00:51:07,583 --> 00:51:08,583 We announced 2493 00:51:08,583 --> 00:51:10,583 the start of Swan Private 2494 00:51:10,583 --> 00:51:13,500 in January of 21 to handle 2495 00:51:13,500 --> 00:51:14,541 like big purchases 2496 00:51:14,541 --> 00:51:14,916 and everything, 2497 00:51:14,916 --> 00:51:15,916 but it was basically just me 2498 00:51:15,916 --> 00:51:16,875 and yon. 2499 00:51:16,875 --> 00:51:17,625 And, you know, 2500 00:51:17,625 --> 00:51:18,250 there were no there 2501 00:51:18,250 --> 00:51:19,250 were no salespeople. 2502 00:51:20,708 --> 00:51:21,625 Actually, Breedlove 2503 00:51:21,625 --> 00:51:22,541 at one point 2504 00:51:22,541 --> 00:51:23,500 signed up to be 2505 00:51:23,500 --> 00:51:24,625 the head of Swan Private 2506 00:51:24,625 --> 00:51:25,583 and then decided, 2507 00:51:25,583 --> 00:51:26,875 I think he got a huge 2508 00:51:26,875 --> 00:51:29,041 pay in advance deal, 2509 00:51:29,041 --> 00:51:29,750 from Nydig 2510 00:51:29,750 --> 00:51:30,916 to sponsor his podcast. 2511 00:51:30,916 --> 00:51:31,916 So he decided to do that 2512 00:51:31,916 --> 00:51:34,916 instead of, instead of work. 2513 00:51:35,958 --> 00:51:36,916 Yeah, I remember 2514 00:51:36,916 --> 00:51:39,458 reading everything. 2515 00:51:39,458 --> 00:51:42,458 So then, you know, I think, 2516 00:51:42,666 --> 00:51:44,041 Steven Lipsky, 2517 00:51:44,041 --> 00:51:44,916 who runs Swan 2518 00:51:44,916 --> 00:51:46,375 Private, his first 2519 00:51:46,375 --> 00:51:47,250 full time day 2520 00:51:47,250 --> 00:51:48,875 at the company was May 1st, 2521 00:51:48,875 --> 00:51:51,208 after the price peak 2522 00:51:51,208 --> 00:51:52,791 and the first 2523 00:51:52,791 --> 00:51:54,875 month of the retail 2524 00:51:54,875 --> 00:51:57,208 interest peak. 2525 00:51:57,208 --> 00:51:58,041 And so we weren't 2526 00:51:58,041 --> 00:51:59,666 actually in market, 2527 00:51:59,666 --> 00:52:01,375 the last bull market, 2528 00:52:01,375 --> 00:52:03,291 which is crazy. 2529 00:52:03,291 --> 00:52:04,250 So it's been it's 2530 00:52:04,250 --> 00:52:05,250 been interesting just, 2531 00:52:05,250 --> 00:52:06,208 you know, making sure 2532 00:52:06,208 --> 00:52:07,500 all your systems are 2533 00:52:07,500 --> 00:52:08,333 rock solid 2534 00:52:08,333 --> 00:52:09,333 and that everything works. 2535 00:52:09,333 --> 00:52:10,041 And, you know, 2536 00:52:10,041 --> 00:52:11,000 you've got a team 2537 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:11,458 that's there 2538 00:52:11,458 --> 00:52:12,166 and ready 2539 00:52:12,166 --> 00:52:13,583 to rock and execute, 2540 00:52:13,583 --> 00:52:15,000 and you don't have 2541 00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:15,833 the distraction 2542 00:52:15,833 --> 00:52:16,916 at the executive 2543 00:52:16,916 --> 00:52:18,708 level of the, 2544 00:52:18,708 --> 00:52:19,875 the mining business 2545 00:52:19,875 --> 00:52:20,666 and associated 2546 00:52:20,666 --> 00:52:22,166 relationships. 2547 00:52:22,166 --> 00:52:24,750 So you can focus 100% on, 2548 00:52:24,750 --> 00:52:25,125 you know, 2549 00:52:25,125 --> 00:52:26,125 the bitcoin investors 2550 00:52:26,125 --> 00:52:27,416 that you serve. 2551 00:52:27,416 --> 00:52:29,000 And so we are like 2552 00:52:30,208 --> 00:52:30,875 crushing it 2553 00:52:30,875 --> 00:52:31,708 and really geared 2554 00:52:31,708 --> 00:52:33,458 up for a lot more growth 2555 00:52:33,458 --> 00:52:34,250 and excited 2556 00:52:34,250 --> 00:52:34,958 to bring more products 2557 00:52:34,958 --> 00:52:35,458 to market. 2558 00:52:35,458 --> 00:52:36,833 So from a business side 2559 00:52:36,833 --> 00:52:38,208 that's that's all there 2560 00:52:38,208 --> 00:52:38,666 I think on 2561 00:52:38,666 --> 00:52:39,500 the personal side, 2562 00:52:39,500 --> 00:52:41,291 it's like, 2563 00:52:41,291 --> 00:52:41,541 you know, 2564 00:52:41,541 --> 00:52:42,000 how do you just 2565 00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:42,500 keep your feet 2566 00:52:42,500 --> 00:52:43,541 on the ground? 2567 00:52:43,541 --> 00:52:44,250 Helps to be married 2568 00:52:44,250 --> 00:52:44,791 to a Turk. 2569 00:52:44,791 --> 00:52:45,625 That's generally going to 2570 00:52:45,625 --> 00:52:47,208 do the trick. 2571 00:52:47,208 --> 00:52:48,125 And having young kids 2572 00:52:48,125 --> 00:52:49,125 definitely helps as well, 2573 00:52:49,125 --> 00:52:49,375 because they 2574 00:52:49,375 --> 00:52:49,833 don't give a shit 2575 00:52:49,833 --> 00:52:51,750 what's going on at work. 2576 00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:52,708 But, you know, 2577 00:52:52,708 --> 00:52:54,500 it's it's almost just, 2578 00:52:54,500 --> 00:52:55,791 deliberately creating 2579 00:52:55,791 --> 00:52:56,750 a little bit of extra 2580 00:52:56,750 --> 00:52:58,375 transition time 2581 00:52:58,375 --> 00:53:00,083 between your, your work day 2582 00:53:00,083 --> 00:53:03,083 and, and, so I find myself, 2583 00:53:03,208 --> 00:53:03,583 you know, I'll be, 2584 00:53:03,583 --> 00:53:04,500 like, euphoric 2585 00:53:04,500 --> 00:53:05,125 on the day that, 2586 00:53:05,125 --> 00:53:05,583 you know, 2587 00:53:05,583 --> 00:53:06,625 Bitcoin goes 2588 00:53:06,625 --> 00:53:07,708 through 100 K or something. 2589 00:53:07,708 --> 00:53:09,041 And I'm like, okay, 2590 00:53:09,041 --> 00:53:10,791 I recognize that. 2591 00:53:10,791 --> 00:53:11,291 I'm probably 2592 00:53:11,291 --> 00:53:12,291 going to act like an ass 2593 00:53:12,291 --> 00:53:13,500 around my family right now. 2594 00:53:13,500 --> 00:53:14,250 So I'm going to go 2595 00:53:14,250 --> 00:53:16,375 take a walk for 20 minutes 2596 00:53:16,375 --> 00:53:17,125 and let myself 2597 00:53:17,125 --> 00:53:18,166 just kind of calm down 2598 00:53:18,166 --> 00:53:18,833 and be a little more 2599 00:53:18,833 --> 00:53:19,500 even keel. 2600 00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:20,250 It's like, 2601 00:53:20,250 --> 00:53:20,958 you know, just try to be 2602 00:53:20,958 --> 00:53:22,083 a grownup about this shit. 2603 00:53:25,291 --> 00:53:26,541 Now through that. 2604 00:53:26,541 --> 00:53:27,291 But yeah, 2605 00:53:27,291 --> 00:53:28,666 it sounds like you did the 2606 00:53:28,666 --> 00:53:29,625 the proper thing 2607 00:53:29,625 --> 00:53:30,833 a bitcoiners should do, 2608 00:53:30,833 --> 00:53:31,625 which is build 2609 00:53:31,625 --> 00:53:33,208 during a bear market. 2610 00:53:33,208 --> 00:53:34,375 It's like we're a 2611 00:53:34,375 --> 00:53:35,208 Bitcoin is build 2612 00:53:35,208 --> 00:53:36,125 a bear technology. 2613 00:53:36,125 --> 00:53:36,708 Like we should get 2614 00:53:36,708 --> 00:53:37,250 build a bear 2615 00:53:37,250 --> 00:53:39,000 to accept Bitcoin. 2616 00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,250 One of these days. 2617 00:53:40,250 --> 00:53:41,833 Oh, fantastic. 2618 00:53:41,833 --> 00:53:42,375 I think 2619 00:53:42,375 --> 00:53:43,541 we're coming up on the 2620 00:53:43,541 --> 00:53:44,958 on the hour here. 2621 00:53:44,958 --> 00:53:46,083 So let's 2622 00:53:46,083 --> 00:53:46,916 thank you, Corey, 2623 00:53:46,916 --> 00:53:48,125 for coming back to the show. 2624 00:53:48,125 --> 00:53:49,291 And like, 2625 00:53:49,291 --> 00:53:50,166 is there anywhere 2626 00:53:50,166 --> 00:53:50,666 you would like 2627 00:53:50,666 --> 00:53:51,750 to send our listeners 2628 00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:52,708 an internal 2629 00:53:52,708 --> 00:53:53,791 or external like. 2630 00:53:53,791 --> 00:53:55,375 Well, I mean, honestly, 2631 00:53:55,375 --> 00:53:56,083 probably Twitter 2632 00:53:56,083 --> 00:53:56,875 is the best place, 2633 00:53:56,875 --> 00:53:57,958 so it's just my full name. 2634 00:53:57,958 --> 00:54:00,208 Cory Klippsten on Twitter. 2635 00:54:00,208 --> 00:54:01,208 Sorry on X. 2636 00:54:01,208 --> 00:54:01,958 So X.com 2637 00:54:01,958 --> 00:54:04,041 slash Cory Klippsten. 2638 00:54:04,041 --> 00:54:04,500 Generally, 2639 00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:05,208 if I have anything 2640 00:54:05,208 --> 00:54:06,083 worth saying, 2641 00:54:06,083 --> 00:54:07,500 I'll put the whole thing 2642 00:54:07,500 --> 00:54:08,708 or a version of it 2643 00:54:08,708 --> 00:54:11,333 on, on X and, 2644 00:54:11,333 --> 00:54:12,958 and my DMs are open 2645 00:54:12,958 --> 00:54:14,375 still, I believe, 2646 00:54:14,375 --> 00:54:15,083 so you can always 2647 00:54:15,083 --> 00:54:15,916 hit me up there too, 2648 00:54:15,916 --> 00:54:18,000 if you want to chat. Is is, 2649 00:54:19,166 --> 00:54:20,583 bitcoin debunking Corey 2650 00:54:20,583 --> 00:54:22,250 coming back anytime soon 2651 00:54:22,250 --> 00:54:22,750 or is there 2652 00:54:22,750 --> 00:54:23,875 no use for him anymore. 2653 00:54:23,875 --> 00:54:25,791 Like look at say look. 2654 00:54:25,791 --> 00:54:26,666 So first off 2655 00:54:26,666 --> 00:54:27,375 okay so this will be 2656 00:54:27,375 --> 00:54:28,500 the last one minute topic 2657 00:54:28,500 --> 00:54:29,083 because I want to hammer 2658 00:54:29,083 --> 00:54:30,416 this on. 2659 00:54:30,416 --> 00:54:32,958 I reject the role of like 2660 00:54:32,958 --> 00:54:34,041 shit coin pi 2661 00:54:34,041 --> 00:54:34,791 because I don't care 2662 00:54:34,791 --> 00:54:36,291 about average crypto scams. 2663 00:54:36,291 --> 00:54:37,250 I only ever cared 2664 00:54:37,250 --> 00:54:38,000 about the ones 2665 00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:38,916 where they were talking shit 2666 00:54:38,916 --> 00:54:39,958 about Bitcoin 2667 00:54:39,958 --> 00:54:40,791 or doing something 2668 00:54:40,791 --> 00:54:42,208 that I like in or around 2669 00:54:42,208 --> 00:54:43,083 bitcoin that I thought 2670 00:54:43,083 --> 00:54:44,000 was bad for Bitcoin. 2671 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:44,875 So it was Daquan 2672 00:54:44,875 --> 00:54:45,958 with the bullshit bitcoin 2673 00:54:45,958 --> 00:54:47,375 Treasury muszynski 2674 00:54:47,375 --> 00:54:48,208 trying to get everybody's 2675 00:54:48,208 --> 00:54:48,583 bitcoin 2676 00:54:48,583 --> 00:54:49,958 for his Ponzi scheme. 2677 00:54:49,958 --> 00:54:51,541 And SBF who was talking shit 2678 00:54:51,541 --> 00:54:52,041 about bitcoin 2679 00:54:52,041 --> 00:54:52,500 all the time 2680 00:54:52,500 --> 00:54:53,125 and just, you know, 2681 00:54:53,125 --> 00:54:54,416 just had too much influence 2682 00:54:54,416 --> 00:54:55,333 that was contrary 2683 00:54:55,333 --> 00:54:55,833 to Bitcoin. 2684 00:54:55,833 --> 00:54:57,375 So you know those were 2685 00:54:57,375 --> 00:54:58,458 the ones that I went after. 2686 00:54:59,833 --> 00:55:00,958 I'm pretty sure you 2687 00:55:00,958 --> 00:55:02,375 can't meet any of them 2688 00:55:02,375 --> 00:55:05,375 for a coffee at this point. 2689 00:55:08,125 --> 00:55:09,416 So but you won't spend 2690 00:55:09,416 --> 00:55:09,875 any time 2691 00:55:09,875 --> 00:55:12,083 bashing this coin again. 2692 00:55:12,083 --> 00:55:12,833 I just think it's 2693 00:55:12,833 --> 00:55:13,375 I just think 2694 00:55:13,375 --> 00:55:14,375 it's the last battle 2695 00:55:14,375 --> 00:55:15,625 and it just doesn't matter. 2696 00:55:15,625 --> 00:55:16,250 Like Bitcoin 2697 00:55:16,250 --> 00:55:17,708 is just so separate 2698 00:55:17,708 --> 00:55:18,875 from crypto at this point. 2699 00:55:18,875 --> 00:55:20,125 And Bitcoin is investing 2700 00:55:20,125 --> 00:55:20,708 and saving 2701 00:55:20,708 --> 00:55:21,833 and crypto is gambling 2702 00:55:21,833 --> 00:55:22,375 and like 2703 00:55:22,375 --> 00:55:24,333 just let them play 2704 00:55:24,333 --> 00:55:25,583 with their crypto games 2705 00:55:25,583 --> 00:55:26,291 or whatever. 2706 00:55:26,291 --> 00:55:27,958 And you know, 2707 00:55:27,958 --> 00:55:29,250 bet on some sports 2708 00:55:29,250 --> 00:55:30,833 and bet on some meme coins. 2709 00:55:30,833 --> 00:55:32,250 And you know, it's sad 2710 00:55:32,250 --> 00:55:32,958 for the people 2711 00:55:32,958 --> 00:55:33,833 that really can't 2712 00:55:33,833 --> 00:55:35,333 afford to be doing that. 2713 00:55:35,333 --> 00:55:36,333 But, you know, 2714 00:55:36,333 --> 00:55:37,375 I got bigger 2715 00:55:37,375 --> 00:55:39,333 fish to fry and, 2716 00:55:39,333 --> 00:55:40,333 you know, it's, 2717 00:55:40,333 --> 00:55:41,875 it's time to just move on 2718 00:55:41,875 --> 00:55:42,833 and and 2719 00:55:42,833 --> 00:55:45,833 just do much, much more 2720 00:55:45,875 --> 00:55:46,583 on the, 2721 00:55:46,583 --> 00:55:47,416 on the positive 2722 00:55:47,416 --> 00:55:48,333 side of things, just 2723 00:55:48,333 --> 00:55:49,250 promoting Bitcoin. 2724 00:55:50,875 --> 00:55:51,375 Great. 2725 00:55:51,375 --> 00:55:52,125 Great to hear. 2726 00:55:52,125 --> 00:55:53,625 So once again 2727 00:55:53,625 --> 00:55:54,583 thanks for coming back. 2728 00:55:54,583 --> 00:55:56,000 And you're always welcome us 2729 00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:56,333 you know. 2730 00:55:56,333 --> 00:55:57,500 So yeah 2731 00:55:57,500 --> 00:55:58,208 I hope to see you 2732 00:55:58,208 --> 00:55:59,041 in real life again 2733 00:55:59,041 --> 00:55:59,750 soon as well. 2734 00:55:59,750 --> 00:56:01,333 Yeah. Me too. Me too. 2735 00:56:01,333 --> 00:56:02,416 Great to see you guys. 2736 00:56:02,416 --> 00:56:03,958 Thanks for the time. 2737 00:56:03,958 --> 00:56:05,041 Thanks a lot Corey. 2738 00:56:05,041 --> 00:56:06,000 This has been the Bitcoin 2739 00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:06,708 30 show. 2740 00:56:06,708 --> 00:56:07,625 Thank you for listening.