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On the education side, there's a potential to make it more available to a wider

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audience in the same way that you would deliver medicine to people in a epidemic.

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Bitcoin is the medicine to that problem, to fiat standard problem.

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if you can't make the information any easier to digest, you're going

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to have a really hard job getting a lot of people to swallow it.

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the whole idea of Permissionless, this agency that I'm starting up,

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is to make information taste better

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Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint show, the Bitcoin

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philosophy show with Knut Svanholm and me, Luke the Pseudo Finn.

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And today we have another returning guest, Angelo Morgan Sommers, He's the author

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of Do Bitcoin and now he's running this new video agency called Permissionless.

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That we're going to talk to him about.

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So, Angelo, great to have you on again.

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Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint Show.

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Incredible to be back.

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Thank you.

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Yeah.

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Good to have you here, Angelo.

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Um, so what has this year, last year been like for you?

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Like what, what are the main takeaways and what are, what are

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you working on at the moment?

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so yeah, it's been a, it's been a year.

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Um, it's been busy, busy, busy.

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I sort of spent most of the time, working on, on the YouTube channel

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for, for FastBitcoins, um, so I was producing educational videos,

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which was great experience for me to, to sort of get better at my, my

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video stuff, because that's always been my main hobby on the side.

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but also just to like rack your brain a little bit and try and

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find new ways to explain things.

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And a big, I think it was, was it Sigmund Freud that had that quote, if you can't

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explain it to a five year old you don't understand it, or something like that?

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that's the approach I try to take with learning anything, and so when you're

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producing videos that are aimed at like as wide a net audience as possible, it

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really makes you have to sort of Think how you can take these complex ideas

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that often hide behind highly jargon like language and then try to one,

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visualize them in the medium of video and also just explain them in words

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that the average person will understand.

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So I was doing that for a while.

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Um, and yeah, of work.

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It's really fulfilling as well because it's Bitcoin.

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and so yeah.

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What about you guys?

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Well, we've been doing this amongst other things, but is, is the fast

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bitcoins, uh, channels still up?

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Can we still still see the videos?

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Yeah, the channel's still up, um, the video's still there.

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The company isn't, unfortunately.

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I don't want to yap my mouth on too much about that.

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I don't know what I can and can't say, so I'd better shut my mouth.

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Um, but yeah.

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The channel is still there, and so the videos, like ghosts, still exist on the

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internet and you can still watch them.

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So that's, uh, that's good.

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Yeah, they're highly recommended.

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I love those videos.

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I mean, you're a really good explainer and Yeah, you do it with eyebrows.

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That's how I'd explain it.

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There's some hidden humor in all of it, and I love it.

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Yeah, yeah.

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gonna say, I had somebody message me the other day.

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Um, an old friend who I was trying to To orange pill for ages and convince him

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that, um, you know, he should sell all of his, his crypto tokens and everything.

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And he just wasn't hearing it.

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And then he just messaged me after not hearing from him for months.

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Like I sold all of my Ethereum and all of my crypto and put it in Bitcoin.

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I was like, what, finally, great.

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But why?

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Like, how, how come you've suddenly had this?

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He was like, it was your proof of stake video.

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And I was like, yes.

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So that's a win for me.

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I've, I've, I've converted one person.

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So all of the efforts were worth it as far as I'm concerned.

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You probably converted way more than one.

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I mean, we can never know how much impact these things have, but I suspect they

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have more impact than we can imagine.

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And if we orange pill someone who becomes something later

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on, then Well, there you go.

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Uh, that's network effects, education, or whatever.

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so, so you visualize the ideas first.

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So, so if someone asks you, what is Bitcoin?

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How do you visualize that and explain it to them?

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All right, that is a very awkward question, um, because almost,

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so the Bitcoin, it's like, how would you visualize Bitcoin?

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The network is very different because that's quite clearly.

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You just have a network diagram, but then how do you visualize an actual

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Bitcoin is awkward because, you know, the only reason you see things is because

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there's some substance there for light to reflect from, but, uh, Bitcoin is like

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an endpoint of information of Of matter because there is no actual Bitcoin.

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You can't highlight the line of code of one Bitcoin.

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You could highlight A-U-T-X-O, but the UTXO isn't actually the

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Bitcoin, it's the unspent transaction output of a Bitcoin transaction.

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So all you have are Bitcoin transactions.

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You don't actually have any Bitcoins.

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So if they were something to be visualized, like wouldn't , like

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wouldn't reflect off them.

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So it would be hard to to have something visual that represents it, because then

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you are placing it in the realm of.

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the existent, but bitcoins themselves aren't existent, they're like an

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emergent property of the way in which a certain system functions, rather than

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an actual, but I guess you could argue the matter is the same, but I don't

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know, I haven't thought about that yet.

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Yeah, I'm asking because I'm trying to, I'm trying to, I'm toe dipping in this

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part of the rabbit hole when trying to explain why ordinals are bullshit.

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And like, the first thing, like, how do you explain the difference

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between a Satoshi and any other data?

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And the way I see it, the Satoshi is something more than just data.

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All the numbers and all the information can be copied, but a Satoshi can't.

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Like, the Satoshi is attached to the secret someone is keeping.

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ordinals are one of the things that I, I just, I haven't looked into so

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much, I've been sort of since that whole thing exploded, I was like

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knee deep in creating videos on the bits that I did understand fully.

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So I don't want to say I'm an ordinals expert at all.

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From what I can gather, it was an experiment that sort of slipped

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under the radar and some people call an accident that, you know,

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led to the ability to store actual data on the Bitcoin blockchain.

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Uh, such as NFTs on the Bitcoin blockchain rather than IPFS links,

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which are used in, in Ethereum.

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So everyone got super hyped up about the fact that, oh yeah,

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we can have NFTs on Bitcoin now.

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and the sort of like Bitcoin as a platform above all else was sort of what

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had a lot of people excited about it.

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and I can, I can empathize with that position because I know that, you know,

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the, The desire for humans to try to control the development of complex

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technologies based on their preconceptions of the final purpose that they will

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serve can have negative effects on the natural occurrence of truth discovery

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when technologies are emerging.

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So I can understand why people would be hesitant to say no to something

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that could resemble innovation.

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However, Bitcoin is a different case because it did have, from the very

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beginning, a very specific purpose in mind to which it was supposed to serve,

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and so any straying from that could be seen as a tarnish to the original purpose,

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especially when you start to have these issues with, you know, the block size

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and transaction fees, which I think is causing issues with Lightning as well, if

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I'm not mistaken, um, that, you know, if the idea of Lightning is that we can use

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it for small transactions like coffee and stuff, but, um, if the transaction fees

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on normal on chain settlement transactions goes too high then, uh, you know, the

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transaction fees to actually resolve a dispute that occurs on the Lightning

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Network would be higher than the actual value of the transaction being made.

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And so it's sort of, um, due to the increasing transaction fees can pose big

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questions about whether or not Lightning would be able to actually serve the

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purpose as a payment layer or whether it, um, I've heard it said on, um, the Um, Guy

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Swann's podcast the other day, he thought the final, actual layer, the Bitcoin main

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chain will just be more like a court, and that payments will occur on lightning,

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like bigger payments, and then for just like your coffees and stuff, solutions

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like FettyMint could be in place.

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Um, so I don't know if it would work out that way.

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But yeah, I can, I can see the danger of it.

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I'll say that.

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Yeah, so this layering thing is interesting and also, like, Bitcoin's

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gonna do what Bitcoin's gonna do, and we can mostly just observe it, and

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it takes a lot of time and effort to influence any decision making or make a

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change to it, so I guess we'll have to just adapt to what it is, and, I think

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a lot of people have this conception that they know what it is and what

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it's going to do and therefore they get disappointed when it behaves in other

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ways than they expected it to behave.

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I think that was the cause of the blocksize wars in the first place,

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like the main underlying cause that Bitcoin started behaving

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differently than they expected.

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Uh, because People have, Bitcoin is different things to different

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people, right, so we all have these

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notions about what it is, and then it turns out that Bitcoin is just Bitcoin

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and it's going to do whatever it does.

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Yeah, that was sort of what I said at the beginning, which is like, um,

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yeah, when you try to control or sort of enforce preconceptions on the way

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in which a technology should develop, you risk averting, like, the actual

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process by which accidental great discoveries are made, like the, the

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whole thing with gunpowder originally.

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And Rubber, I think, was an accidental discovery.

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Like, lots of things are accidental discoveries, just from throwing shit

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at the wall and seeing what sticks.

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Ordinal is another case of that, where people think Uh, let's see if we can

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do NFTs and then it ends up being used for something else, which is actually

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kind of cool, um, beyond cat pictures.

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Maybe, maybe not.

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I think to say that you know for sure is hubris, and they're already there.

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And so I think, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not something that

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can be undone at this point, is it?

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Well, it could be undone by a soft fork even, I think, if I'm technical

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enough to explain this, but the op return The size of the op return

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could be reduced, uh, so that you wouldn't be able to attach arbitrary

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data to a transaction in the same way.

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Uh, because, like, the way I see it, the, the Satoshi is, uh, different from all

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other data on the, on the time chain.

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Because this, the Satoshi is more than just data, it's, uh, it represents the

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ability to which the user is able to Change the, uh, the time chain, because

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you can move the bitcoins and this is all done by, by keeping a secret, uh,

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I, uh, knowing a private key, and the, the, all the other data isn't, it just

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isn't, it's, it's there, it's visible for everyone, and it's not attached to the

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Satoshi in any way, it's attached to the Coinbase transactions, to the Coinbase

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transaction, but not to the actual

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So they sort of just pretend that it is like a serial number on a

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dollar, but the serial number leaves the dollar as soon as it moves.

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And if someone ends up coin joining that Satoshi, for instance, you

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can't backtrack it to the Coinbase transaction and see where it came from.

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So the whole thing is just a charade, in my opinion.

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Yeah, yeah, that would be a soft fork.

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I'm pretty sure if it, because it's constricting the rules, right?

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If you're reducing the size of the operator and then, yeah, that's a

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constriction, so it would be soft.

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This, this actually doesn't have to be a fork necessarily, and this is what

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Ocean is doing and uh, Luke Dash Jr.

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's uh, Bitcoin Knots implementation.

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He just doesn't relay transactions that have this opreturn higher, right?

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And so, and so, lower opreturns are still in consensus with

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the rest of the network, right?

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And so Theoretically, more people could just adopt to not relay transactions that

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have higher than this opportune limit.

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But I guess, I guess the idea would be that if you say, from now on, the

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opportune limit has to be smaller than I, then I think that's a, that's a fork.

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But right now, right now it's happening with, without a fork.

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Yeah, which is even better because, like, all forks are, there's a danger

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to forks in general, like, changing the rules is sort of missing the point,

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like, with, there's a good argument to be made for never changing the

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rules, Bitcoin conservatism, if you'd like, there are good arguments to

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that because we, it's hard to foresee second and third order effects of

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changing anything in the protocol.

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but I guess, yeah, if you're running a node, put your spam filter on

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so you don't have to see this, uh, things if you, if you don't

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like people scamming other people.

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I mean, to me it's like buying a star in the Andromeda Galaxy.

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Like, it's there, but it's not really yours, is it?

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It's, anyone can see it, you can't do anything with it, it's just there.

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So that kind of solution could only take place at the, level of the mempool

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though, right, like, in terms of what actually gets, what transactions get

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relayed before confirmation, because once one's actually been confirmed and

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a block has been mined with one of these transactions, you can't ignore it, right,

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unless you want to split the chain.

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now the transactions that have already been made are there forever, uh, unless

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we hard fork and censor and stuff, but still, they're only in the Coinbase,

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as, as, to my knowledge, I should, uh, this is the disclaimer here, but to my

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knowledge, they're only in the Coinbase transaction, and they don't follow the

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Satoshi anywhere, unless you copy the data and do it in the next transaction as well.

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But What's the point of doing that?

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Yeah, I think definitely anything that poses a threat to the fungibility of

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Bitcoin I'm, like, staunchly against, because I think that could be, some,

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like, uh, an actual sort of death sentence over the long run, but yeah, what you're

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saying about being hard, it reminds me of that, um, Chinese story, you know,

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the one about the guy, uh, whose son, um, well, he's, he's out in the wild

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and he finds a bunch of horses and, um, the whole village says, Oh, nice.

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Well done.

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You found some horses.

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And then he goes, Oh, we'll see.

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And he brings them home and then his son's riding on one the next day and falls off

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and breaks his leg and the whole village goes, Oh, you're so unlucky, you know,

246
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wish you didn't find all those horses, your son wouldn't have broken his leg.

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And he says, Oh, we'll see.

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00:14:50,124 --> 00:14:52,514
And then the next day the army's coming around and they're, they're

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drafting everyone into a new war.

250
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And, and his son doesn't get picked because he's got a broken leg and

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00:14:57,464 --> 00:14:59,994
the whole village says, Oh, you're so lucky your son didn't get picked.

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And he says, we'll see.

253
00:15:01,974 --> 00:15:03,544
And I think the general point of that is.

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With Bitcoin as well.

255
00:15:05,359 --> 00:15:11,201
Um, if you say don't change the rules, we'll see, you know, that the, there was

256
00:15:11,201 --> 00:15:15,071
a change in the rules that happened in the block wall, block size debate, and that

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led to, you know, Segwit, for instance, to be able to enable the, utilization of

258
00:15:20,287 --> 00:15:25,322
the Lightning Network, and then, for that to be able to go to taproot, which does

259
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have massive, massive, privacy benefits.

260
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it's hard to say exactly.

261
00:15:30,601 --> 00:15:34,353
You can't really get like a full, bird's eye view of the entire

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board to see what the best move is.

263
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And I think to, as a general principle, restricting moves is dangerous because

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you have to have such a high level.

265
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And comprehensive understanding.

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It almost becomes totalitarian if you believe you'd have, if you

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believe yourself to have the total understanding of what's best for

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the progression of the technology.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I absolutely agree.

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And that's why, why we love the system.

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Because it doesn't have leaders.

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We all have to come to a consensus of some kind.

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But like, this is true for everything in economics, by the way.

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That you, you live in the timeline you live in.

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You never see the alternative timeline.

277
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You never, you can never tell what would have happened if things had

278
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played out another way than they did.

279
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And we are living through this phase, whether we like it or not.

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Uh, just as we live through the block size wars, w whether we like that or not.

281
00:16:33,371 --> 00:16:38,380
Uh, and the conclusion as always is study Bitcoin.

282
00:16:38,590 --> 00:16:41,410
Uh, it'll change you more than you can change it then.

283
00:16:41,415 --> 00:16:42,190
That's a good thing.

284
00:16:42,996 --> 00:16:43,776
Yeah, strap in.

285
00:16:44,482 --> 00:16:48,302
Angelo, maybe on the, on the note of studying Bitcoin, can you tell us

286
00:16:48,302 --> 00:16:52,732
a little bit about what you've been up to, to further Bitcoin education?

287
00:16:53,236 --> 00:16:58,037
Yeah, so, um, so I'll say I was working on the YouTube channel project, for

288
00:16:58,037 --> 00:17:04,767
the past year, but, um, that's sort of stopped now, um, and I think while there

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00:17:04,767 --> 00:17:11,400
is definitely, um, the need for, for more education, that suits a wider audience,

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because at the end of the day, this type of conversation, it's hard to get people

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00:17:18,105 --> 00:17:23,065
And I think one sort of axiom that has to be taken as true when considering how to

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get Bitcoin adoption is that the majority of people just don't care and won't,

293
00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:30,953
they won't care about the technology or why it exists or who created it or

294
00:17:30,963 --> 00:17:33,453
what Satoshi means, what Nakamoto is.

295
00:17:33,739 --> 00:17:39,235
They just don't have the time or energy to even, be learning anything outside

296
00:17:39,235 --> 00:17:41,725
of the job they do to pay their way.

297
00:17:42,285 --> 00:17:42,795
And so.

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00:17:43,482 --> 00:17:46,999
you know, I was speaking to Obi, and not this, uh, last Amsterdam, but

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00:17:47,009 --> 00:17:51,239
the one before that, and when he was explaining his whole project with

300
00:17:51,239 --> 00:17:56,264
FEDI to me, he made the point that, um, until it's actually, profitable

301
00:17:56,314 --> 00:18:00,414
for these people to use it, until it actually benefits them in some material

302
00:18:00,414 --> 00:18:02,413
way, the utilization won't be there.

303
00:18:02,830 --> 00:18:05,210
and so I think there's two approaches to the adoption.

304
00:18:05,210 --> 00:18:07,400
There's one which is like just make it work for people so

305
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:08,580
that it benefits their lives.

306
00:18:08,610 --> 00:18:13,790
And if it's, reducing the costs, um, or increasing the outputs of their labor

307
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:18,298
in some way, they will use it because it's just like the thermodynamics of it.

308
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It's become it.

309
00:18:19,938 --> 00:18:21,168
Adds leverage to their life.

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They put in their works for labor and it stores that energy better.

311
00:18:25,275 --> 00:18:26,055
so there's that approach.

312
00:18:26,055 --> 00:18:29,085
And then there's also the approach of, well, the thing is an idea.

313
00:18:29,145 --> 00:18:32,855
And if we want people to grasp the magnitude of the idea,

314
00:18:33,505 --> 00:18:34,735
then they have to get the idea.

315
00:18:35,044 --> 00:18:37,294
and the problem with Bitcoin, it's not something you can

316
00:18:37,294 --> 00:18:38,104
hold in your hand, right?

317
00:18:38,204 --> 00:18:42,154
It, is something that is conceptual to its core.

318
00:18:42,184 --> 00:18:47,454
And so there is some level of large scale conceptual understanding

319
00:18:47,454 --> 00:18:49,104
that I think has to be reached.

320
00:18:49,494 --> 00:18:54,184
Over the long run, if If we want people to hear things like CBDCs and

321
00:18:54,184 --> 00:18:59,514
rather than think, oh, that's what it is now, we use CBDCs, they think,

322
00:19:00,354 --> 00:19:01,844
oh, that's an option on the table.

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00:19:01,864 --> 00:19:05,754
Because that's, I think, the purpose of Bitcoin is to get to a point where

324
00:19:06,644 --> 00:19:09,584
it's just increasing the optionality of the average person so that they don't

325
00:19:09,584 --> 00:19:13,624
have to be subjugated to tyrannical levels of leverage held upon them by

326
00:19:14,014 --> 00:19:18,024
those who stand to gain from the current structure of the financial system.

327
00:19:18,404 --> 00:19:22,844
So, that's sort of the point of, that was my viewpoint on.

328
00:19:24,014 --> 00:19:25,324
What needs to happen for adoption.

329
00:19:26,084 --> 00:19:29,134
I'm not smart enough to work on the tech stuff that makes it actually

330
00:19:29,474 --> 00:19:30,644
beneficial to people in their lives.

331
00:19:30,644 --> 00:19:32,864
Unfortunately, I would love to maybe sometime in the future if

332
00:19:32,864 --> 00:19:34,914
I spend a lot of time learning.

333
00:19:35,364 --> 00:19:38,734
But on the education side, you know, I think there is a,

334
00:19:39,454 --> 00:19:41,675
there's a potential to make it.

335
00:19:42,384 --> 00:19:46,024
More available to a wider audience in the same way that you would deliver

336
00:19:46,024 --> 00:19:48,724
medicine to people in a epidemic.

337
00:19:49,074 --> 00:19:53,484
I think we need to take the whole modern monetary theory and the sort of zeitgeist

338
00:19:53,484 --> 00:19:59,484
of current financial operations as an epidemic of, of the, at the level

339
00:19:59,484 --> 00:20:04,761
of memes, and not memes, like funny pictures, but memes like the brain things,

340
00:20:05,374 --> 00:20:12,011
and Bitcoin is the medicine to that problem, to the fiat standard problem.

341
00:20:12,491 --> 00:20:17,979
And so if you can't make the information any easier to digest, you're going

342
00:20:17,979 --> 00:20:20,599
to have a really hard job getting a lot of people to swallow it.

343
00:20:20,639 --> 00:20:25,079
And so, you know, communication of any idea or education.

344
00:20:25,484 --> 00:20:29,974
Education is just communication and the communication of any idea is limited in

345
00:20:29,984 --> 00:20:35,152
large part to the medium, used to get your point across and I think video is,

346
00:20:36,002 --> 00:20:39,612
you know, everybody's paying attention to video, especially, you know, the

347
00:20:39,612 --> 00:20:40,952
average Joe that just got home from work.

348
00:20:40,992 --> 00:20:42,452
They might have time for a one minute video.

349
00:20:42,452 --> 00:20:44,162
They're probably not going to read the Bitcoin standard.

350
00:20:44,647 --> 00:20:47,467
so there has to be a solution for those people.

351
00:20:47,836 --> 00:20:52,326
where we are taking into account the fact that if the medicine tastes like

352
00:20:52,326 --> 00:20:53,646
shit, people aren't gonna drink it.

353
00:20:53,946 --> 00:20:56,856
Um, and we need to make the medicine taste a bit better.

354
00:20:56,861 --> 00:20:59,766
And so the whole idea of, of permissionless this agency

355
00:20:59,771 --> 00:21:01,836
that I'm starting up is to make information taste better.

356
00:21:02,286 --> 00:21:09,380
Um, and the way that you do that, I think, is by playing the game of, attention

357
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,070
at the same level as other industries.

358
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:13,430
And I think at the moment, in bitcoin.

359
00:21:13,970 --> 00:21:17,087
There's some great content being created, by a lot of people, but if

360
00:21:17,087 --> 00:21:22,499
we could increase the production value of that, make it Up to the standard

361
00:21:22,519 --> 00:21:26,599
of creators that are competing in much more competitive domains, such as

362
00:21:26,599 --> 00:21:31,986
just general finance or, or economics content creators, then we should

363
00:21:31,986 --> 00:21:35,266
be able to reach a larger audience by speaking in tones that actually,

364
00:21:35,836 --> 00:21:37,646
sort of resonate with them better.

365
00:21:37,676 --> 00:21:43,158
So, long term, I think, You know, I've got some plans for potential documentaries

366
00:21:43,158 --> 00:21:44,178
and stuff, which would be great.

367
00:21:44,703 --> 00:21:48,323
but yeah, that's sort of where I want to position myself in the whole race

368
00:21:48,323 --> 00:21:49,743
to get people to understand Bitcoin.

369
00:21:50,133 --> 00:21:53,403
Um, because I come from a video background, so it's Sort of combining

370
00:21:53,403 --> 00:21:55,753
the two points of knowledge,

371
00:21:56,037 --> 00:21:59,657
Alright, you might have noticed that we've recently partnered with AmberApp.

372
00:21:59,948 --> 00:22:04,278
After our episode with Izzy, their CEO, and our close friend, we knew we

373
00:22:04,278 --> 00:22:07,682
would have to partner with them in some way, If you haven't seen our episode

374
00:22:07,682 --> 00:22:11,772
with Izzy, definitely go check it out, you'll see why it's such a great fit,

375
00:22:12,022 --> 00:22:15,952
and honestly, they're following the orange glowing light like Izzy always

376
00:22:15,952 --> 00:22:20,042
says, and that's exactly what we try to do here at the Freedom Footprint Show.

377
00:22:20,367 --> 00:22:22,706
The big news about AmberApp is that they're going to be

378
00:22:22,706 --> 00:22:24,516
launching their version 2.

379
00:22:24,732 --> 00:22:28,242
I've seen some of the screenshots and it looks fantastic.

380
00:22:28,537 --> 00:22:32,348
They're going to be including a non custodial on chain wallet, an

381
00:22:32,368 --> 00:22:36,620
anonymous lightning wallet, a fiat wallet, And finally, it's going

382
00:22:36,620 --> 00:22:37,960
to be an exchange, of course.

383
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,103
it's going to be just this super app,  They're also going

384
00:22:41,103 --> 00:22:42,453
to be launching globally.

385
00:22:42,473 --> 00:22:44,023
Everyone's going to be able to use it.

386
00:22:44,262 --> 00:22:45,992
we're really excited about all that.

387
00:22:46,122 --> 00:22:48,762
Stay tuned with us and you'll hear all about it.

388
00:22:48,962 --> 00:22:51,312
And for now, check out their website, amber.

389
00:22:51,562 --> 00:22:54,272
app and the episode with Izzy to find out more.

390
00:22:54,579 --> 00:22:56,118
Next up WasabiWallet.

391
00:22:56,358 --> 00:22:59,808
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392
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393
00:23:02,098 --> 00:23:06,088
It's the easy to use, comprehensive, affordable way to make your coins private.

394
00:23:06,653 --> 00:23:09,663
And the best part is, they've been making huge improvements to the app.

395
00:23:09,973 --> 00:23:12,923
They're really focusing on the user experience, adding advanced

396
00:23:13,033 --> 00:23:15,583
features for power users, they just keep getting better.

397
00:23:16,103 --> 00:23:19,583
You send your coins to your Wasabi wallet, and they get combined with loads of

398
00:23:19,583 --> 00:23:23,703
other coins using the Wabi Sabi protocol, so they're private on the other end.

399
00:23:24,243 --> 00:23:27,753
Your tracks are covered so you can work on expanding your Freedom Footprint

400
00:23:27,903 --> 00:23:29,583
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401
00:23:30,463 --> 00:23:31,373
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402
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403
00:23:35,026 --> 00:23:42,496
So, uh, in, in terms of, uh, mimetic, like if, if you try to take the pulse on, on

404
00:23:42,496 --> 00:23:45,496
your generation, do you think we're like.

405
00:23:46,991 --> 00:23:48,371
Where are most people at?

406
00:23:48,411 --> 00:23:55,223
Are they, like, is this, era of wokeness and, uh, just doing what

407
00:23:55,223 --> 00:23:56,993
you're told, is it coming to an end?

408
00:23:57,003 --> 00:24:02,313
Does the, uh, the opposite, like, the Freedom Footprint side of humanity,

409
00:24:02,313 --> 00:24:06,623
is that, uh, are we multiplying?

410
00:24:06,633 --> 00:24:08,973
Like, do you see, do you see that in your life?

411
00:24:09,003 --> 00:24:11,263
Like, what are your thoughts there?

412
00:24:11,803 --> 00:24:15,873
I think, I think definitely, um, just from like the people that I know in my

413
00:24:15,873 --> 00:24:23,003
generation that the, the sort of energy around any sort of conversation, um,

414
00:24:23,233 --> 00:24:28,678
around Bitcoin or, or money in general, five years ago was an investment.

415
00:24:29,648 --> 00:24:34,261
You know, much less, enthusiastic or there was much less enthusiasm to discover more

416
00:24:34,571 --> 00:24:41,057
than there is today, because I think today people are feeling the effects more of the

417
00:24:41,057 --> 00:24:43,647
failures inherent in the current system.

418
00:24:44,091 --> 00:24:47,726
inflation, I think is just the cost of living in general has shown people that.

419
00:24:47,906 --> 00:24:51,266
You know, these problems actually might be a bit more personal than you thought.

420
00:24:51,326 --> 00:24:54,696
You think a lot of people see it as these high level things that occur

421
00:24:54,696 --> 00:24:57,186
at the level of the state and the government and it's not their problem

422
00:24:57,186 --> 00:24:58,886
and they're just subject to it.

423
00:24:59,138 --> 00:25:03,705
but as it starts to burn more, people start to think, am I just subject

424
00:25:03,725 --> 00:25:05,335
to it or do I have some say in this?

425
00:25:05,535 --> 00:25:11,125
Um, and that dissatisfaction I think is beginning to, to be the cause of,

426
00:25:11,435 --> 00:25:16,265
or like the, or provide the activation energy for people to move towards.

427
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,290
Um, more financial literacy and just understanding.

428
00:25:19,892 --> 00:25:21,552
better understanding their own optionality.

429
00:25:21,592 --> 00:25:25,493
So, so yeah, but the wokeness thing, I think vast majority of

430
00:25:25,493 --> 00:25:28,783
people my age, it's just completely, it's fucked, I'll be honest.

431
00:25:29,223 --> 00:25:32,833
the vast majority of people that I meet, from my age, it feels like

432
00:25:32,833 --> 00:25:35,043
they're not using their own brains.

433
00:25:35,303 --> 00:25:37,503
It's sort of like a hive mind, unfortunately.

434
00:25:37,997 --> 00:25:42,137
but I think that's just a product of, um, The amount of time and attention

435
00:25:42,137 --> 00:25:47,027
that is spent on, you know, their social media sort of echo chambers.

436
00:25:47,755 --> 00:25:54,646
Yeah, it's certainly getting promoted, or it has been getting a lot of promotion,

437
00:25:54,906 --> 00:26:00,626
that sort of worldview, like, uh, the last decade and, like, I would say post

438
00:26:00,786 --> 00:26:06,516
Covid specifically, that Disney went really off the deep end now, maybe we'll

439
00:26:06,516 --> 00:26:11,816
see, uh, the pendulum swing the other way after that, uh, South Park episode

440
00:26:11,816 --> 00:26:19,396
about South Park, about Disney being too woke and stuff, I mean, I'm just worried

441
00:26:19,416 --> 00:26:25,266
what the pendulum swinging the other way looks like, because, like, uh, I mean, you

442
00:26:25,266 --> 00:26:28,956
wouldn't want to get into a society where gay people are thrown off rooftops and

443
00:26:28,966 --> 00:26:31,426
stuff, like, that's not optimal either.

444
00:26:31,836 --> 00:26:37,726
So, it's a tricky thing, but it's like, it's this pendulum thing about humanity

445
00:26:37,726 --> 00:26:43,315
in general, that we swing from one extreme to another, in all issues, and

446
00:26:43,385 --> 00:26:45,255
the internet seems to amplify that.

447
00:26:45,875 --> 00:26:51,505
I think from my intuition is that the the pendulum is so far in one direction for

448
00:26:51,505 --> 00:26:55,697
my generation at the moment that for it to swing the other way would require some

449
00:26:56,347 --> 00:27:02,211
catastrophe that deeply burns the model and associates that burn with the current

450
00:27:02,211 --> 00:27:05,417
positioning of the pendulum, if you will.

451
00:27:05,487 --> 00:27:12,010
Um, and I think what will likely happen before that, um, you know, that's

452
00:27:12,010 --> 00:27:14,210
like very much an impact based change.

453
00:27:14,210 --> 00:27:17,370
Something bad happens and everybody swings the other way reactively.

454
00:27:17,710 --> 00:27:21,430
But then there's also just like the, the chronic dissatisfaction.

455
00:27:21,821 --> 00:27:26,131
with the status quo on the majority of issues that is leaving a large

456
00:27:26,131 --> 00:27:30,811
portion of people my age feeling very alienated and without a place.

457
00:27:30,911 --> 00:27:34,431
And so, you know, unfortunately, I think you do see that with people like the

458
00:27:34,431 --> 00:27:37,971
rise of Andrew Tate in the past year and stuff, where it was like, everybody

459
00:27:37,971 --> 00:27:42,570
just needed to latch on to some sort of, you know, thought leader that could

460
00:27:42,570 --> 00:27:46,010
provide them an antidote to, to the sort of bullshit that they have to deal

461
00:27:46,010 --> 00:27:47,630
with from the opposite end for so long.

462
00:27:47,650 --> 00:27:48,650
And then instead of like.

463
00:27:49,065 --> 00:27:51,415
You know, using their own brains and finding the middle ground,

464
00:27:51,415 --> 00:27:55,475
people just go, oh yeah, it's become slightly more socially acceptable

465
00:27:55,475 --> 00:28:00,085
to say XYZ instead of ABC now, so I'm just only going to say XYZ.

466
00:28:00,415 --> 00:28:04,075
Instead of saying YZAB, just having some middle ground, people sort of

467
00:28:04,875 --> 00:28:09,882
just want to fly the other direction and I think the agency, the agency

468
00:28:09,882 --> 00:28:15,449
of the individual is probably the main point that needs to be fostered.

469
00:28:16,274 --> 00:28:21,922
In order for there to be like a, just a better society in general, because to

470
00:28:21,922 --> 00:28:24,612
me it just feels, when I speak to a lot of people my age, it just feels like

471
00:28:24,612 --> 00:28:29,792
there's very little agency there when it comes to opinions and perspectives.

472
00:28:29,842 --> 00:28:34,061
It's more, it's almost like they do some sort of subconscious cost benefit

473
00:28:34,091 --> 00:28:38,621
analysis of Saying things that are tied directly to their reputation because

474
00:28:38,621 --> 00:28:40,761
there's no North Star after God died.

475
00:28:40,771 --> 00:28:42,371
Everything stops at the skull.

476
00:28:42,371 --> 00:28:44,271
It's just like the ego and then nothing above.

477
00:28:44,581 --> 00:28:47,911
There is no like guiding principle that makes people want to actually

478
00:28:48,249 --> 00:28:53,189
consider anything in their lives to be more important than reputation,

479
00:28:53,369 --> 00:28:55,669
status and material acquisition.

480
00:28:55,669 --> 00:28:59,339
So then, yeah, the, the, the game of opinions and stuff.

481
00:28:59,704 --> 00:29:02,084
Stopped speaking about, well, what matters to me, what do I believe, and

482
00:29:02,094 --> 00:29:05,804
more just like, what's going to keep me my job, and what's going to get me the

483
00:29:05,904 --> 00:29:09,514
social approval of my immediate circle, and it just doesn't go beyond that.

484
00:29:10,145 --> 00:29:13,015
Oh, it's, it's so, uh, it's so true.

485
00:29:13,035 --> 00:29:16,475
It's like, we all do this cost analysis thing.

486
00:29:16,935 --> 00:29:20,165
It's just that we come to different conclusions about it.

487
00:29:20,215 --> 00:29:25,940
And, uh, like more people should, uh, like just liberating

488
00:29:25,940 --> 00:29:28,400
yourself from stuff in general.

489
00:29:29,055 --> 00:29:32,715
It's such a ob it's, to me, it's such an obvious life goal to

490
00:29:32,715 --> 00:29:36,855
have like the, the, the fewer sh shackles you have around your feet.

491
00:29:36,860 --> 00:29:40,475
The, the, the faster you can move and the more things you can do.

492
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,895
Like it's, it's, it's pretty obvious.

493
00:29:42,895 --> 00:29:46,315
But, but people don't seem to, to, uh, see things that way.

494
00:29:46,867 --> 00:29:52,447
No, and it's also that, I think it's just a, uh, you know, when you do, you're

495
00:29:52,447 --> 00:29:55,927
right, everybody does do the cost benefit analysis before they say anything, really.

496
00:29:55,967 --> 00:30:01,372
Um, especially when it comes to You know, you're at a party with your friends, or

497
00:30:01,372 --> 00:30:05,332
you're at the bar with your friends, or you're at the kitchen on your lunch break

498
00:30:05,332 --> 00:30:09,272
with your co workers, and somebody brings up a relatively contentious topic and asks

499
00:30:09,272 --> 00:30:12,812
you your opinion on it, and everybody in that moment does a cost benefit analysis

500
00:30:12,812 --> 00:30:16,002
of what they should say, and oftentimes there is what they actually believe,

501
00:30:16,272 --> 00:30:19,482
what they think people want them to say, and then they find some middle ground,

502
00:30:19,804 --> 00:30:24,214
and I think the degree to which they sway towards what they actually think

503
00:30:24,224 --> 00:30:28,918
versus what they think the people around them want to hear, I think is a good

504
00:30:28,918 --> 00:30:34,497
proxy for understanding, what principles orient that person in the world.

505
00:30:34,497 --> 00:30:38,997
So if, for instance, freedom is a very strong orienting principle, then

506
00:30:39,037 --> 00:30:41,767
saying something closer to what they actually believe is going to be more

507
00:30:41,767 --> 00:30:44,177
likely because freedom of speech, right?

508
00:30:44,177 --> 00:30:46,617
You should be, you should be able to say these things and, and sort

509
00:30:46,617 --> 00:30:49,677
of just let it ride out on the, see how it unfolds after you say it.

510
00:30:49,854 --> 00:30:53,784
but then if reputation is much bigger or pride is much bigger,

511
00:30:54,154 --> 00:30:57,054
then yeah, they're going to want to sort of play the part more.

512
00:30:57,144 --> 00:31:05,259
Um, and I do think in the incredibly secular world that we're in right

513
00:31:05,259 --> 00:31:13,259
now, it's going to be hard to get people to see much as more important

514
00:31:13,289 --> 00:31:17,885
than, what John Vervaeke says is the success on the horizontal axis.

515
00:31:18,035 --> 00:31:22,110
So he posits this idea that in life, there's two axes of success.

516
00:31:22,110 --> 00:31:25,830
There is the horizontal, which is, you know, you're here and then you're here.

517
00:31:25,830 --> 00:31:31,630
And on the other side of it is money, fame, respect, uh, family, kids, um, stuff

518
00:31:31,790 --> 00:31:33,310
that's external, nice house, nice car.

519
00:31:33,865 --> 00:31:36,835
and then you have the vertical axis, which is you're here, you know, maybe

520
00:31:36,835 --> 00:31:40,135
you're insecure because you had a stutter when you were younger and now you find

521
00:31:40,135 --> 00:31:42,145
it slightly harder to speak in public.

522
00:31:42,625 --> 00:31:45,105
And then up here is like, you don't have that issue anymore.

523
00:31:45,305 --> 00:31:46,055
You overcame it.

524
00:31:46,105 --> 00:31:46,975
And then up here is like.

525
00:31:47,325 --> 00:31:50,445
Now you're a great public speaker and you don't have any self consciousness

526
00:31:50,795 --> 00:31:53,765
with regards to your interactions and up here it's like you only say what

527
00:31:53,765 --> 00:31:54,805
you believe to be true or something.

528
00:31:55,085 --> 00:32:01,125
So there's a vertical axis of self transcendence that is only sort of, you

529
00:32:01,125 --> 00:32:05,325
can only make progress on that axis by doing like deep work, internal work,

530
00:32:05,685 --> 00:32:07,545
but you can make progress on this axis.

531
00:32:07,667 --> 00:32:12,297
much quicker in a sense, or not quicker, but you can make progress on that

532
00:32:12,327 --> 00:32:15,317
axis without having to confront the demons that actually scare you, which

533
00:32:15,317 --> 00:32:16,727
are oftentimes on the vertical axis.

534
00:32:17,057 --> 00:32:23,487
And so, people use success on the horizontal as a proxy for, success.

535
00:32:23,857 --> 00:32:28,467
But I think the actual success is done vertically, and so people are more

536
00:32:28,467 --> 00:32:33,067
concerned with being seen as successful than they are with being successful,

537
00:32:33,067 --> 00:32:36,344
and a lot of people don't even know what that means to them, and so when

538
00:32:36,834 --> 00:32:42,024
a question arises, you know, what do you think about XYZ contentious topic,

539
00:32:42,363 --> 00:32:46,383
people are more likely to choose whatever just fits their social group,

540
00:32:46,913 --> 00:32:49,833
because they don't have, they're not oriented vertically, you could say.

541
00:32:50,233 --> 00:32:52,333
I butchered that whole explanation, but you get the point.

542
00:32:52,887 --> 00:32:53,367
No, no.

543
00:32:53,367 --> 00:32:54,387
It's, it's beautiful.

544
00:32:54,477 --> 00:32:59,367
But I, I, I, what I have a hard time with is, is how it's connected to secularism.

545
00:32:59,786 --> 00:33:05,963
because to me, uh, this is More akin to organized religion behavior,

546
00:33:05,973 --> 00:33:11,353
where virtue signaling is everything, showing that you're a good christian

547
00:33:11,353 --> 00:33:12,833
or a good muslim or whatever.

548
00:33:13,241 --> 00:33:16,791
It has turned into, since the state has so much control now because of

549
00:33:16,801 --> 00:33:22,206
fiat, It has turned into an organized religion where, like, signaling that

550
00:33:22,206 --> 00:33:28,926
you're a good statist becomes the main virtue signaling mechanism instead

551
00:33:28,926 --> 00:33:32,606
of maybe a hundred years ago when, yeah, I go to church every Sunday.

552
00:33:32,646 --> 00:33:37,056
Like, it's just another religion replacing the old one.

553
00:33:37,296 --> 00:33:44,756
So secularism in my mind is what freed us from the shackles of the old paradigm,

554
00:33:45,376 --> 00:33:54,716
but then that we've been hijacked again by basically by fiat, because that's

555
00:33:54,716 --> 00:34:00,166
the underlying mechanism that makes the state so big and so influential

556
00:34:00,166 --> 00:34:02,296
and the propaganda is so strong.

557
00:34:02,296 --> 00:34:05,076
So then like we take all these things for granted.

558
00:34:05,671 --> 00:34:09,071
That the state is our friend and it's taking care of us, and

559
00:34:09,071 --> 00:34:11,041
that becomes the new religion.

560
00:34:11,167 --> 00:34:13,177
but so, so, so why secularism?

561
00:34:13,717 --> 00:34:17,587
For exactly that reason, because when religion, or when God died, it left a

562
00:34:17,587 --> 00:34:21,617
power vacuum, in a sense, uh, that needed to be filled by something, and, and

563
00:34:21,617 --> 00:34:27,668
like you said, when you see the world as or less figured out by science that

564
00:34:27,668 --> 00:34:31,769
there was some, spontaneous chemical reaction that happened on accident and

565
00:34:32,319 --> 00:34:33,719
now you're supposed to call that you.

566
00:34:34,119 --> 00:34:40,289
you become a brain floating around in a weird box that's sort of piloting this

567
00:34:40,319 --> 00:34:44,352
meat machine, that has no real purpose because it's all an accident and nothing

568
00:34:44,352 --> 00:34:48,192
really matters and you, you devolve into nihilism and when you devolve into

569
00:34:48,192 --> 00:34:49,922
nihilism, the lack of meaning, I think.

570
00:34:50,339 --> 00:34:54,519
I think a symptom of the lack of meaning that people have in their lives is a

571
00:34:55,788 --> 00:35:00,098
redirection towards hedonism and I think hedonism is a driving cause of a lot of

572
00:35:00,138 --> 00:35:03,128
these sort of unvirtuous virtue signalers.

573
00:35:03,128 --> 00:35:03,560
I

574
00:35:03,682 --> 00:35:08,712
Yeah, but the cure to that is not going back to some play pretend thing, right?

575
00:35:08,762 --> 00:35:13,522
Like, uh, if, if you're just pretending that you know what happened, then

576
00:35:14,392 --> 00:35:16,242
that's just as bad in my mind.

577
00:35:17,088 --> 00:35:19,968
don't think it's about pretending that you know what happened, I think it's it's

578
00:35:19,968 --> 00:35:26,314
more at the level of your interpretation of The world around you, like the way

579
00:35:26,314 --> 00:35:29,494
the, like it's at the, the kernel level, if you will, like the way in which

580
00:35:29,494 --> 00:35:31,234
you actually interface with the world.

581
00:35:31,234 --> 00:35:33,424
How are you, how are you prioritizing things?

582
00:35:33,846 --> 00:35:40,416
and a large part of the question of of how are you prioritizing things is based

583
00:35:40,416 --> 00:35:48,886
on, on the context and in large part to, to prioritize is to serve a purpose.

584
00:35:48,886 --> 00:35:51,556
When you make a prioritization, it is towards a particular

585
00:35:51,556 --> 00:35:53,746
purpose and so devoid of purpose.

586
00:35:54,401 --> 00:35:55,501
This is Mississian.

587
00:35:55,561 --> 00:35:57,541
Human action is purposeful behavior.

588
00:35:57,561 --> 00:36:00,501
That's the first axiom of praxeology.

589
00:36:00,791 --> 00:36:04,041
Exactly, and human action, but even human perception as well is an act of

590
00:36:04,041 --> 00:36:08,511
prioritization, and so when there are these acts of prioritization, they are to

591
00:36:08,511 --> 00:36:13,101
serve a particular purpose, and without any larger purpose than self, all of the

592
00:36:13,101 --> 00:36:17,331
prioritization is based around self, and then you have, well, like you see in the

593
00:36:17,331 --> 00:36:22,356
US, massively rising rates of narcissistic personality disorder, more antisocial

594
00:36:22,356 --> 00:36:26,676
personality disorders are, are increasing massively over the past 50 years.

595
00:36:27,096 --> 00:36:30,916
it's all sort of heading backwards in a sense because there is

596
00:36:30,916 --> 00:36:32,546
nothing greater than self anymore.

597
00:36:32,626 --> 00:36:35,946
And if there's nothing greater than self, then why should you say what you truly

598
00:36:35,946 --> 00:36:37,326
believe if it's gonna get you fired?

599
00:36:38,146 --> 00:36:42,681
Yeah, it's still, the, this Ties back to our conversation with Jeff

600
00:36:42,711 --> 00:36:47,911
Booth with, uh, about how, uh, the main takeaway I got from that is

601
00:36:47,951 --> 00:36:55,471
like, reality is, uh, reality is a reflection of consciousness back at you.

602
00:36:56,091 --> 00:37:00,551
So, like, you create your own reality to a much larger extent than you think.

603
00:37:00,931 --> 00:37:05,831
Like, what you focus on becomes your actual reality because everything

604
00:37:05,831 --> 00:37:08,631
else isn't there for you subjectively.

605
00:37:09,235 --> 00:37:15,745
So to me, like the, this scientism, uh, the, the, the, the bla basic flaw of that

606
00:37:16,015 --> 00:37:22,221
worldview is that it, uh, it rejects, other types of science than empiricism.

607
00:37:22,221 --> 00:37:27,381
To me, it's just this, this, uh, notion that empiricism is the answer to, to

608
00:37:27,381 --> 00:37:33,971
everything when there's, uh, an equal or greater amount of a priori knowledge.

609
00:37:35,066 --> 00:37:40,296
That is even better at explaining reality than the empirical sciences can ever be.

610
00:37:41,466 --> 00:37:47,806
This is from my favorite Hoppe book, The Economic Science and the Austrian

611
00:37:47,816 --> 00:37:53,416
Method, where he explains how even the statement that empiricists make that

612
00:37:54,111 --> 00:37:58,881
All knowledge we can have, we can, we, we use the scientific method to get

613
00:37:58,881 --> 00:38:04,851
empiric, empirical testing and so on peer review to get into to a better

614
00:38:04,851 --> 00:38:07,101
and better approximation of the truth.

615
00:38:07,701 --> 00:38:10,851
But there is no such thing as an, uh, as an absolute truth.

616
00:38:11,781 --> 00:38:15,231
Uh, but what he points out is that that statement in itself.

617
00:38:16,058 --> 00:38:21,039
presupposes that there is an absolute truth because that's an axiomatic,

618
00:38:21,039 --> 00:38:22,679
that's an axiomatic sentence.

619
00:38:23,149 --> 00:38:26,489
It, it does state that something is absolutely true, that

620
00:38:26,489 --> 00:38:27,559
there's no absolute truth.

621
00:38:28,429 --> 00:38:31,269
So, so it's, it's contradictory in that sense.

622
00:38:31,629 --> 00:38:35,329
So I think there's a priori knowledge is what's lacking

623
00:38:35,339 --> 00:38:37,499
from, from, uh, from reality.

624
00:38:37,499 --> 00:38:43,029
So we were like a substituted, you know, the old religions with something.

625
00:38:43,618 --> 00:38:49,218
that wasn't really fit for replacing that, and that is like, okay, so now,

626
00:38:49,308 --> 00:38:54,378
uh, now you know that there is no proof that God exists, so you go to school

627
00:38:54,378 --> 00:38:58,118
and you learn all these other things that are, that you just take at face

628
00:38:58,118 --> 00:39:01,928
value and accept them to be true without questioning them, and that's, you're,

629
00:39:01,968 --> 00:39:06,973
you're, you're making the same mistake over again, so, so, um, you know.

630
00:39:07,293 --> 00:39:11,213
Yeah, there's something missing for sure, but, but I don't think like

631
00:39:11,213 --> 00:39:18,503
going back to some, some old, some old system is, that's not the future.

632
00:39:18,503 --> 00:39:22,093
I mean, forwards is forwards and backwards is backwards.

633
00:39:22,379 --> 00:39:25,109
I was just gonna say, like, for yeah, backwards is backwards in some sense.

634
00:39:25,169 --> 00:39:30,504
Um, if you know exactly what Backwards is, um, you know, like you said about

635
00:39:30,504 --> 00:39:34,520
second, third, and fourth order effects of things, it's hard to know exactly, which

636
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,840
direction is forwards and which direction is backwards if you're not Um, what is it?

637
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:40,740
Omnipotent?

638
00:39:40,890 --> 00:39:41,930
What's the one that knows everything?

639
00:39:41,940 --> 00:39:42,480
Omnipotent?

640
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,930
If you're not omnipotent, then, then yeah, good luck saying that you know

641
00:39:46,930 --> 00:39:50,690
which, which, which is forwards and backwards, which goes back to the Chinese

642
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,410
proverb of the, the farmer, right?

643
00:39:53,410 --> 00:39:56,150
It's like everything, you might think, oh, your kid broke his leg.

644
00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:56,710
That's bad.

645
00:39:56,720 --> 00:39:57,190
Sure.

646
00:39:57,740 --> 00:40:00,280
But then it's like, but again, you're not taking into account the

647
00:40:00,290 --> 00:40:01,850
larger picture and there is some.

648
00:40:02,310 --> 00:40:06,340
Acknowledgement that has to be made by every human of the limited scope of their

649
00:40:06,340 --> 00:40:08,810
understanding and of their perceptions.

650
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:13,513
And so, so yes, on that point, there are elements that you would not like to

651
00:40:13,513 --> 00:40:15,923
reinstate about the old way of religion.

652
00:40:16,003 --> 00:40:21,173
However, using myself as a personal case study, I would say over the past three

653
00:40:21,173 --> 00:40:25,153
years, I have become more religious, but I haven't subscribed to any religion at all.

654
00:40:25,413 --> 00:40:29,553
Um, but I've just noticed the way that I perceive The reality

655
00:40:29,553 --> 00:40:32,963
that I live in, and like, like you say, the axioms upon which I.

656
00:40:33,053 --> 00:40:36,772
And, um, I base the rest of my, understanding have vastly changed.

657
00:40:37,042 --> 00:40:42,032
Five years ago, I was incredibly, incredibly nihilistic, um, and believed

658
00:40:42,042 --> 00:40:46,621
that there was little to be done in the world, of much meaning at all.

659
00:40:46,891 --> 00:40:49,631
And it was all sort of accidental and just do whatever because

660
00:40:49,981 --> 00:40:51,071
you're going to die anyway.

661
00:40:51,071 --> 00:40:55,291
And I tried to convince myself that it was optimistic nihilism, but failed in that,

662
00:40:55,421 --> 00:40:57,701
um, because it made me very pessimistic.

663
00:40:57,835 --> 00:40:59,726
and, I think it just.

664
00:40:59,791 --> 00:41:07,685
It fosters bad behavior in a sense, um, and I think the, at the core of that it's

665
00:41:07,685 --> 00:41:11,688
not that now I think that the only way I can sort of explain it visually is this,

666
00:41:11,698 --> 00:41:16,218
like before, it sort of, there was some sort of hierarchy of importance, and it

667
00:41:16,218 --> 00:41:20,606
would stop here, where the ego is, and I think there is nothing beyond that,

668
00:41:20,656 --> 00:41:26,006
because there is no guiding principle, there is no larger narrative, it's all

669
00:41:26,006 --> 00:41:30,081
just accidental, anything can happen, you just Take what you can get before you die.

670
00:41:30,461 --> 00:41:33,131
That's not a very good attitude to have about the world.

671
00:41:33,331 --> 00:41:37,771
And so I think when you shift away from that, and shift towards Uh, being

672
00:41:37,771 --> 00:41:41,251
more principled or actually virtuous, like if you believe truth is something

673
00:41:41,251 --> 00:41:46,421
that should be prioritized and so you do your best to say that, to speak the

674
00:41:46,421 --> 00:41:53,351
truth at the cost of all else, that is a more religious act because it's, even

675
00:41:53,351 --> 00:41:58,937
in cases where you're going to incur some immediate, uh, costs to speaking

676
00:41:58,937 --> 00:42:01,537
the truth, you still do it on faith.

677
00:42:02,587 --> 00:42:05,707
It's still the right thing to do, and that over a long enough period

678
00:42:05,707 --> 00:42:08,327
of time, that is the best way in which you should live your life.

679
00:42:08,327 --> 00:42:12,987
So, it's maybe not, maybe using the word religion and religiousness sort of

680
00:42:13,477 --> 00:42:15,417
Taints it with a lot of previous stuff.

681
00:42:15,547 --> 00:42:16,127
is that better?

682
00:42:17,307 --> 00:42:20,627
Spiritual, again, yeah, that works, but it's also been tainted as well.

683
00:42:20,657 --> 00:42:21,437
I think just, just,

684
00:42:21,837 --> 00:42:23,367
Yeah, I

685
00:42:23,407 --> 00:42:23,847
general.

686
00:42:24,536 --> 00:42:29,356
I'm, I'm really curious, Knut, if you don't mind my, uh, I just have one very

687
00:42:29,356 --> 00:42:32,956
specific question, Angela, because I'm, I'm really hearing a lot of parallels

688
00:42:33,006 --> 00:42:35,206
to, to, uh, something specific here.

689
00:42:35,206 --> 00:42:37,526
How much Peterson have you read, Jordan Peterson?

690
00:42:37,906 --> 00:42:38,806
Oh, quite, quite a bit.

691
00:42:38,806 --> 00:42:39,126
Yeah.

692
00:42:39,717 --> 00:42:40,447
Maps of Meaning?

693
00:42:40,780 --> 00:42:41,610
No, I haven't read that.

694
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:42,600
Is it good?

695
00:42:42,750 --> 00:42:43,745
have to, you have to.

696
00:42:44,075 --> 00:42:47,885
Oh man, everything you're saying about the perception stuff is just, is just

697
00:42:47,975 --> 00:42:50,995
absolutely coming straight out of that.

698
00:42:51,045 --> 00:42:52,265
I think you'd love it.

699
00:42:52,425 --> 00:42:57,585
I mean, to me, the book is entirely about finding meaning in the absence

700
00:42:57,585 --> 00:43:01,185
of nihilism and explaining, sorry, in the presence of nihilism and

701
00:43:01,185 --> 00:43:03,695
explaining how meaning develops.

702
00:43:04,955 --> 00:43:07,595
Coincidentally, I'm in the middle of a series on Maps of Meaning

703
00:43:07,595 --> 00:43:12,285
with Rob Breedlove right now, so check that out if you like, plus

704
00:43:12,285 --> 00:43:13,785
the literature series and stuff.

705
00:43:14,490 --> 00:43:14,860
I will.

706
00:43:15,070 --> 00:43:17,200
And if you're into that type of conversation as well, I'd

707
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:18,350
recommend one to both of you.

708
00:43:18,990 --> 00:43:23,130
There's a guy called John Vervaeke, who did a series, a lecture series called

709
00:43:23,140 --> 00:43:24,420
Awakening from the Meaning Crisis.

710
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,860
Definitely check that out if you haven't, and all the listeners as well.

711
00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:28,010
100 percent check that out.

712
00:43:30,322 --> 00:43:31,782
that, but I couldn't get through it.

713
00:43:31,962 --> 00:43:35,062
I did watch his series on Breedlove as well, though.

714
00:43:35,852 --> 00:43:39,522
He was also on Breedlove, I mean, and I watched the Vervaeke series.

715
00:43:39,612 --> 00:43:41,102
He has a lot of interesting ideas.

716
00:43:41,662 --> 00:43:42,352
Absolutely.

717
00:43:42,612 --> 00:43:47,507
And yeah, I think I speak for most You know, passionate Bitcoiners,

718
00:43:47,517 --> 00:43:53,617
when I say that, uh, with, uh, our journeys are almost always like from,

719
00:43:53,747 --> 00:43:59,227
uh, nihilistic to virtuous, if you will, or nihilistic to finding more.

720
00:43:59,717 --> 00:44:03,557
Meaning in our lives and something to, something to live for.

721
00:44:03,982 --> 00:44:05,672
and I've been thinking a lot about that too.

722
00:44:05,672 --> 00:44:08,622
And like, there's a lot of talk about finding noise, uh, from

723
00:44:08,642 --> 00:44:10,222
finding signal in the noise.

724
00:44:10,882 --> 00:44:17,532
And to me, Bitcoin is not the signal, but it's the greatest noise remover ever.

725
00:44:18,112 --> 00:44:21,882
Because it removes all the layers of noise, uh, from your life.

726
00:44:21,962 --> 00:44:24,762
So you don't have to worry about the noise anymore.

727
00:44:25,452 --> 00:44:30,062
All of a sudden, you can see this, what you were talking about before, the x axis

728
00:44:30,062 --> 00:44:35,672
and the y axis of, uh, where you want to, what you want to do with your life, and

729
00:44:35,762 --> 00:44:41,112
then you can see more clearly, hang on, there's another axis here, that is even

730
00:44:41,112 --> 00:44:47,372
more fulfilling to climb up, than to just walk sideways on this materialistic thing.

731
00:44:48,552 --> 00:44:49,552
So, absolutely,

732
00:44:50,078 --> 00:44:53,299
I think one of the best ways that I can tie that into, the Jordan Peterson

733
00:44:53,299 --> 00:44:56,389
thing, Jordan Peterson had a quote, um, I think it was a Jordan Peterson quote,

734
00:44:56,389 --> 00:44:59,799
I'm not sure, but it might have been something from, I don't know, but it

735
00:44:59,799 --> 00:45:05,964
said, Something along the lines of one of the most, uh, it was a posit of a

736
00:45:06,124 --> 00:45:10,324
potential ultimate purpose, which was, the pursuit of truth in the service of love.

737
00:45:10,962 --> 00:45:15,512
and I read two interesting, sort of definitions of, of both

738
00:45:15,522 --> 00:45:16,832
truth and of love recently.

739
00:45:16,982 --> 00:45:21,912
and while I'm explaining this, keep in mind the idea of money as language.

740
00:45:22,312 --> 00:45:25,082
so the definition of, truth was.

741
00:45:25,262 --> 00:45:29,582
that is the inverse of deceit, right, and so you think the fiat system is deceit, by

742
00:45:29,582 --> 00:45:32,532
printing more you're playing God, saying that you can add resources by adding the

743
00:45:32,542 --> 00:45:38,082
measurement of resources, um, silly stuff, but that's deceit, and so bitcoin would

744
00:45:38,082 --> 00:45:43,875
be truth, so the pursuit of truth could be transposed as the pursuit of bitcoin in

745
00:45:43,875 --> 00:45:48,222
the service of love, and I heard another interesting definition of love, the other

746
00:45:48,222 --> 00:45:52,835
day, which was the generous interpretation of the actions of others, and If you

747
00:45:52,835 --> 00:45:56,365
are talking on like a conversational basis, that might be, you know, somebody

748
00:45:56,365 --> 00:45:59,466
doesn't, take out the trash and instead of thinking, oh, it's because they're

749
00:45:59,466 --> 00:46:02,966
evil and they don't, do anything good ever and they suck and they don't like

750
00:46:02,966 --> 00:46:04,996
me, it could just be they had a bad day.

751
00:46:05,476 --> 00:46:06,666
Maybe they're just not feeling it.

752
00:46:06,936 --> 00:46:07,806
I'll just do it now.

753
00:46:08,246 --> 00:46:10,806
So that's sort of like the generous interpretation of the actions of others.

754
00:46:11,036 --> 00:46:16,046
But economically, um, the generous, the way in which you interpret Uh, the

755
00:46:16,046 --> 00:46:19,836
value of the actions of others is with the compensation that you give them

756
00:46:20,026 --> 00:46:28,236
monetarily, and so the pursuit of truth in the service of love, uh, as an ultimate

757
00:46:28,236 --> 00:46:32,616
purpose, materially instantiated in the development of Bitcoin could look

758
00:46:32,616 --> 00:46:39,236
something like the pursuit of Bitcoin in the service Of generous economic

759
00:46:39,236 --> 00:46:42,286
interpretation of the actions of others, which sounds a hell of a lot to me, like,

760
00:46:42,856 --> 00:46:47,886
you know, deflation, um, as Jeff Booth frames it, which is prices actually,

761
00:46:48,354 --> 00:46:52,461
begin to come down and there becomes more value is exchanged, per hands, there's

762
00:46:52,461 --> 00:46:54,866
more win win, transactions that occur.

763
00:46:55,296 --> 00:46:58,566
I know it's an idea that I literally just had, so I'm still sort of winning it out,

764
00:46:58,566 --> 00:46:59,446
but I think there's something in there.

765
00:46:59,771 --> 00:47:02,311
absolutely, sounds like you're onto something.

766
00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:06,730
But like, it's not only about finding better and more truthful

767
00:47:06,740 --> 00:47:12,330
transactions, it's also about removing unnecessary, deceitful transactions.

768
00:47:12,430 --> 00:47:18,090
Like, I think that's, that's an equal or larger portion of what this is,

769
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:23,220
because Bitcoin sort of incentivizes you to not spend, and to live a

770
00:47:23,220 --> 00:47:25,945
more Humble life, if you will.

771
00:47:26,615 --> 00:47:30,405
At least that's, that's where it's, the direction it has taken me.

772
00:47:30,405 --> 00:47:35,245
I mean, I mean, I, I wasn't ever very materialistic, but they kind

773
00:47:35,245 --> 00:47:40,395
of sort of pointed out that, you know, striving for more material

774
00:47:40,395 --> 00:47:45,603
wealth was It was just as bullshitty as I expected it to be all along.

775
00:47:45,613 --> 00:47:50,928
It's just that it's good to have a pile of money to feel safe, and to know that

776
00:47:51,148 --> 00:47:56,188
you'll be alright, and to know that, okay, I can do what I want with my life now, and

777
00:47:56,188 --> 00:47:59,398
then start thinking about what that means.

778
00:48:00,147 --> 00:48:00,797
Yeah, for sure.

779
00:48:01,677 --> 00:48:06,447
I wonder if, um, you know, the freedom and safety are often put

780
00:48:06,807 --> 00:48:09,787
as opposing motivators today.

781
00:48:09,877 --> 00:48:14,588
Oftentimes, you know, especially in, As it relates to the state, the state often

782
00:48:14,588 --> 00:48:18,138
tries to buy your freedom with safety.

783
00:48:18,158 --> 00:48:23,488
They, you know, they claim safety as, as something you're getting

784
00:48:23,488 --> 00:48:25,008
in return for your freedoms.

785
00:48:25,432 --> 00:48:28,152
you know, give us your freedoms, in return you'll be safer, we promise,

786
00:48:28,152 --> 00:48:29,292
because we know best, type thing.

787
00:48:29,672 --> 00:48:33,982
Um, but like you said there, having a big sack does make you feel more safe.

788
00:48:34,442 --> 00:48:35,772
Um, but it also makes you more free.

789
00:48:35,772 --> 00:48:41,712
So I was like, hmm, isn't freedom, freedom then something we could actually

790
00:48:41,712 --> 00:48:52,012
use as A metric to measure safety, um, because sure, you could be safer

791
00:48:52,012 --> 00:48:55,322
from damage if you were less free.

792
00:48:56,812 --> 00:49:00,877
By being less free, if it's not really your actions, if actions are being

793
00:49:00,877 --> 00:49:09,967
imposed by fiat upon you, um, then it, is that safety or is it just A is that

794
00:49:10,007 --> 00:49:15,977
someone else's safety being sort of transposed onto your life by decree.

795
00:49:16,584 --> 00:49:18,594
Oh, it's false safety.

796
00:49:18,874 --> 00:49:20,444
It's the illusion of safety.

797
00:49:20,724 --> 00:49:26,114
So this reminds me so much of this Benjamin Franklin quote that I love.

798
00:49:26,434 --> 00:49:31,474
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety.

799
00:49:31,954 --> 00:49:34,714
deserve neither liberty nor safety.

800
00:49:35,424 --> 00:49:40,404
Uh, I've heard that paraphrased as, uh, deserve neither and will lose both.

801
00:49:40,904 --> 00:49:43,644
And I love that because, like, they're, they're very connected.

802
00:49:43,774 --> 00:49:46,854
And, uh, yeah, the founding fathers were, were based.

803
00:49:47,084 --> 00:49:49,784
I mean, they knew what they were talking about, especially Franklin.

804
00:49:49,834 --> 00:49:53,700
But, uh, so there's absolutely a connection between freedom and,

805
00:49:53,720 --> 00:49:55,890
uh, between liberty and safety.

806
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:57,590
And it's not what people think it is.

807
00:49:58,273 --> 00:50:01,713
You gotta be free to trip over some things and scar your knee every now and then.

808
00:50:01,773 --> 00:50:06,603
I think, um, if you were to be forcefully wrapped in bubble wrap your

809
00:50:06,603 --> 00:50:08,483
whole life and sent about your way.

810
00:50:08,945 --> 00:50:10,015
would you call that safety?

811
00:50:10,435 --> 00:50:12,515
Well, it's damaging in and of itself.

812
00:50:12,545 --> 00:50:16,485
It is an act of damage to restrict oneself to that degree.

813
00:50:16,575 --> 00:50:22,791
So, I think if you only see damage as, or danger even, as the risk of

814
00:50:22,821 --> 00:50:25,195
the loss of resource, then sure.

815
00:50:25,265 --> 00:50:27,315
But again, that goes back to the vertical axis things.

816
00:50:27,635 --> 00:50:30,845
Um, if resource is the most important, or resource accumulation

817
00:50:30,845 --> 00:50:34,335
is the most important thing, then sure, you'll feel safer.

818
00:50:34,455 --> 00:50:41,430
Um When you're less free, um, but yeah, I think it's an axiomatic thing.

819
00:50:42,001 --> 00:50:47,036
there's this, there's this great scene from this movie Paon, uh, where, uh,

820
00:50:47,096 --> 00:50:51,206
it's about this, this guy getting sentenced, uh, getting a life sentence,

821
00:50:51,236 --> 00:50:53,816
sentence on the Salvation Island.

822
00:50:53,816 --> 00:50:58,646
So he's in a prison on the Salvation Island, uh, salvation Islands, and, uh,

823
00:50:59,464 --> 00:51:06,314
In one of his fever dreams, when being trapped in the cells for decades, he's

824
00:51:06,454 --> 00:51:13,624
crawling in a desert, and there's a jury in the desert, and he crawls up to the

825
00:51:13,624 --> 00:51:20,854
jury, and if I remember correctly, the judge says the jury deems you guilty,

826
00:51:20,984 --> 00:51:28,294
and then he bangs his gavel, and the guy says, Steve McQueen, by the way, says,

827
00:51:28,364 --> 00:51:31,994
um, well, I'm not guilty, I was innocent.

828
00:51:32,574 --> 00:51:37,724
No, you're, you're misinterpreting the crime, you're guilty of a wasted life.

829
00:51:38,554 --> 00:51:43,661
And, and to me, like, uh, that scene was profound, like, it's, it's just, I have

830
00:51:43,661 --> 00:51:48,501
the image in the back of my head every time, because like, uh, all of the time,

831
00:51:48,751 --> 00:51:54,401
because my greatest fear, I realized, is It's a mundane life that leads to nothing.

832
00:51:54,861 --> 00:52:00,741
Like, uh, just doing what you're told and sitting in the same house

833
00:52:00,741 --> 00:52:05,651
all your life, never going anywhere, having the same job, and then just,

834
00:52:06,791 --> 00:52:08,621
that to me is the scariest thing.

835
00:52:09,196 --> 00:52:14,686
The scariest thing, like, never exploring anything, never

836
00:52:15,066 --> 00:52:16,866
getting out of your comfort zone,

837
00:52:17,577 --> 00:52:20,707
Yeah, the best quote that I had, I used to do a lot of parkour when I was younger.

838
00:52:20,727 --> 00:52:24,007
I think I went over my story with you when I first got on, um, about

839
00:52:24,007 --> 00:52:26,507
the parkour accident, which led me to Bitcoin funnily enough.

840
00:52:26,757 --> 00:52:29,647
So I guess the quote is even more true, but there was a, a quote that

841
00:52:29,647 --> 00:52:33,213
I always used to say when I was doing parkour, which was, um, uh,

842
00:52:33,233 --> 00:52:36,113
a ship at shore is a safe ship, but that's not what ships are built for.

843
00:52:36,715 --> 00:52:39,325
It's like, sure, you can have, if you've got a ship, it's supposed to be out.

844
00:52:39,990 --> 00:52:44,760
Incurring the, the cost of large waves and, uh, and the

845
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:46,410
tides of, of the real world.

846
00:52:46,530 --> 00:52:51,920
If you keep it at, at shore, sure it's safe, but like, again, safety

847
00:52:51,925 --> 00:52:53,480
becomes paramount if you lack purpose.

848
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,460
The purpose of the ship is to be out at sea.

849
00:52:55,910 --> 00:52:59,780
Um, if you keep it locked up in a warehouse or, or stowed at sho.

850
00:53:00,845 --> 00:53:06,315
Then sure, you can get your safety, there's a greater cost that is

851
00:53:06,315 --> 00:53:08,855
alluded to by the, by the judges in the, in the desert there.

852
00:53:09,325 --> 00:53:11,665
And I think if there could be some shift,

853
00:53:11,948 --> 00:53:16,688
Yeah, the other quote is, uh, calm seas never made any good sailors,

854
00:53:17,050 --> 00:53:17,550
Right.

855
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:18,790
same thing, basically.

856
00:53:19,380 --> 00:53:24,030
Yeah, and I think, like, the The best safety net you

857
00:53:24,030 --> 00:53:25,730
can have is life experience.

858
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:31,350
Like, the more life experience you have, the safer you are against, you know,

859
00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:35,690
things turning sideways and things not going the way you thought they would.

860
00:53:36,490 --> 00:53:40,170
If you have life experience, and if you know yourself, and if you know if

861
00:53:40,170 --> 00:53:44,260
you can control your, your feelings to some extent, and uh, you know,

862
00:53:44,310 --> 00:53:48,770
know your mind, then you're better equipped to deal with uncertainty.

863
00:53:49,410 --> 00:53:51,630
Uh, which is what it's all about, I guess.

864
00:53:52,100 --> 00:53:54,630
Yeah, that's the whole idea of the vertical axis thing I was talking

865
00:53:54,630 --> 00:53:57,810
about, which is like horizontal might be, okay, how far did you sail?

866
00:53:57,810 --> 00:53:59,970
But then vertical is how good of a sailor did you become?

867
00:54:00,442 --> 00:54:03,552
and so, yeah, the focus on becoming a better sailor, I think is something,

868
00:54:03,602 --> 00:54:04,762
a shift that needs to happen.

869
00:54:05,033 --> 00:54:07,233
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0.

904
00:55:43,038 --> 00:55:46,588
So every Zapp sent to a Geyser address shows up on the Geyser page.

905
00:55:47,348 --> 00:55:48,808
We have a Geyser fund ourselves.

906
00:55:48,818 --> 00:55:50,978
It's the best way to support our show directly with Bitcoin.

907
00:55:51,988 --> 00:55:55,848
So whether you're a creator or a supporter, check out geyser at geyser.

908
00:55:55,848 --> 00:55:56,748
fund today.

909
00:55:56,855 --> 00:55:57,995
I do have one more question, by the way.

910
00:55:57,995 --> 00:56:00,715
I was listening to your Jeff Booth thing, um, and he started talking

911
00:56:00,715 --> 00:56:04,638
about free will, and I didn't quite get to the bit where you sort of gave

912
00:56:04,638 --> 00:56:07,798
your point on free will, but I think we're gonna have an interesting little

913
00:56:08,158 --> 00:56:10,095
five minute, discussion on that.

914
00:56:10,125 --> 00:56:11,565
So what, so do you think you have free will?

915
00:56:12,127 --> 00:56:14,237
This is a great question.

916
00:56:14,257 --> 00:56:19,217
I like, I always answer that with one of my favorite Christopher Hitchens

917
00:56:19,237 --> 00:56:22,747
quotes, which is, of course you have free will, you have no choice but to have it.

918
00:56:24,447 --> 00:56:28,487
It's because it's such, because it's such a, such a lovely conundrum.

919
00:56:31,152 --> 00:56:35,529
Doing an interview with Volker soon, I think, Luke, and he wants, he really

920
00:56:35,529 --> 00:56:39,269
wants to do a deep dive into this subject, so it's, it's fun that you took it up,

921
00:56:39,671 --> 00:56:44,489
because, uh, that you brought it up, because there's, there are studies,

922
00:56:44,519 --> 00:56:50,139
uh, of how consciousness works and the consciousness has a lag of like half a

923
00:56:50,139 --> 00:56:54,389
second or something so when you think you make a conscious decision the decision

924
00:56:54,389 --> 00:56:58,759
has not already been made by some other part of your brain and consciousness is

925
00:56:58,759 --> 00:57:05,566
just like the movie playing up for your mind uh like rationalizing what happened

926
00:57:05,576 --> 00:57:11,436
in hindsight so Falker's conclusion is that you can have free will but you

927
00:57:11,436 --> 00:57:17,226
have to presuppose that There is some, there is such a thing as a soul that,

928
00:57:17,236 --> 00:57:23,726
that, that lives outside of your brain because how you run into some, some of

929
00:57:23,726 --> 00:57:28,866
these catch 22s with like, okay, so, so you think you control your mind?

930
00:57:29,176 --> 00:57:34,786
Well, you can't really, you can't really control what thoughts come into it.

931
00:57:35,246 --> 00:57:40,566
Like, I guess you can control to some extent what, what thoughts you choose to

932
00:57:40,616 --> 00:57:47,046
be, I, I have a suspicion that you can choose focus, like you can choose what

933
00:57:47,146 --> 00:57:52,006
thoughts to focus on and what thoughts to discard to some extent, at least, but

934
00:57:52,006 --> 00:57:59,906
that, I'm not basing that on anything else than intuition, um, but like a

935
00:57:59,976 --> 00:58:05,901
world where free will doesn't exist, That's, to me, deterministic and boring.

936
00:58:06,791 --> 00:58:09,951
I know that free will couldn't exist without entropy.

937
00:58:10,261 --> 00:58:14,921
If the universe was predetermined, and you could figure it all out, and

938
00:58:15,101 --> 00:58:20,891
we didn't have unforeseen things, then free will couldn't exist.

939
00:58:21,291 --> 00:58:22,461
It's just impossible.

940
00:58:22,841 --> 00:58:30,261
So, something is going on somewhere, and I don't know what it is, but I act as if

941
00:58:30,261 --> 00:58:33,341
free will exists, if that makes any sense.

942
00:58:34,231 --> 00:58:35,261
To paraphrase Peterson.

943
00:58:35,902 --> 00:58:38,992
Yeah, I think it's, um, it's interesting.

944
00:58:39,022 --> 00:58:43,044
You could probably have an answer that sort of Check both boxes.

945
00:58:43,064 --> 00:58:47,094
Um, if you just realize that there's, there's more than one way to ask

946
00:58:47,134 --> 00:58:50,694
the question, right, because so you can say you have free will,

947
00:58:50,824 --> 00:58:53,854
but, but what is you in that?

948
00:58:53,904 --> 00:58:55,674
Like, what are you referring to when you say you?

949
00:58:57,207 --> 00:58:59,097
Yeah, that's, that's the conundrum.

950
00:58:59,657 --> 00:58:59,897
Right?

951
00:58:59,897 --> 00:59:00,087
Yeah.

952
00:59:00,087 --> 00:59:02,787
So if you don't even know what you are, then why, why are we getting ahead of

953
00:59:02,787 --> 00:59:04,127
ourselves with questions of free will?

954
00:59:04,347 --> 00:59:11,562
And I think this is an interesting, like, you, um, It presupposes a separate

955
00:59:11,652 --> 00:59:15,372
entity that can impose, for there to be free will, there has to be a

956
00:59:15,372 --> 00:59:20,242
separate entity that can impose upon another separate entity, like the self

957
00:59:20,272 --> 00:59:25,585
can impose upon the other, and there is the assumption in that that that

958
00:59:25,585 --> 00:59:27,125
separation is, is a separate entity.

959
00:59:27,465 --> 00:59:33,565
True, but I'd say if you get rid of that assumption that there is a separate entity

960
00:59:33,615 --> 00:59:41,005
called Knuts, or a separate entity called Luke, then the question of free will

961
00:59:41,505 --> 00:59:48,655
becomes paradoxically, yes, there is free will, um, but there is no you to have it.

962
00:59:48,675 --> 00:59:54,676
And then you can join those studies which say that there is that the decision

963
00:59:54,686 --> 01:00:00,076
happens before the conscious awareness of it, with the, and retain your, your

964
01:00:00,076 --> 01:00:04,596
sense of free will at the same time, because you're, you're, you kick the can

965
01:00:05,026 --> 01:00:10,407
back one level of analysis, to the point of the actual, axiomatic assumptions

966
01:00:10,407 --> 01:00:11,947
about the nature of self and other.

967
01:00:13,548 --> 01:00:15,238
That's very, very interesting.

968
01:00:15,248 --> 01:00:18,018
Did you ever hear about the meme theory of everything?

969
01:00:19,323 --> 01:00:19,663
Nah,

970
01:00:20,828 --> 01:00:25,868
Which is like trying to connect, uh, like the big one in, in, in,

971
01:00:25,868 --> 01:00:30,108
uh, the natural sciences to, to connect the theory of, uh, general

972
01:00:30,108 --> 01:00:32,738
relativity with the quantum theory.

973
01:00:33,288 --> 01:00:36,128
And this guy, uh, had a good explanation.

974
01:00:36,138 --> 01:00:37,458
It's an article, it's on Medium.

975
01:00:37,458 --> 01:00:40,468
So you can check it out, like the meme theory of everything.

976
01:00:40,991 --> 01:00:46,801
And he argues that reality is where our consciousnesses, uh, collide.

977
01:00:47,711 --> 01:00:52,246
So, uh, uh, where our memes Sync, so to speak.

978
01:00:52,306 --> 01:00:57,557
So, uh, you know, I, I can see Luke on my screen here and you can see Luke on

979
01:00:57,557 --> 01:01:03,486
your screen here and our consciousnesses have a similar, idea of what that means.

980
01:01:03,746 --> 01:01:07,056
So, we Collide, and that becomes reality.

981
01:01:08,660 --> 01:01:11,680
I should have maybe made another example.

982
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:14,790
The table behind Luke is a better example than Luke himself, because

983
01:01:14,790 --> 01:01:16,890
he's a conscious being himself.

984
01:01:17,290 --> 01:01:20,200
But the thing is, this theory,

985
01:01:20,275 --> 01:01:20,915
know that for sure.

986
01:01:21,196 --> 01:01:27,546
I'm, uh, now I, I'm, I'm not, I'm not, uh, , uh, I'm not too familiar.

987
01:01:27,546 --> 01:01:28,896
I don't remember it too well.

988
01:01:28,896 --> 01:01:32,766
So I'm trying to do A-T-L-D-R on something I, I don't completely understand.

989
01:01:32,771 --> 01:01:36,786
But the, uh, there were some takeaways, like, it, it would explain

990
01:01:36,786 --> 01:01:42,236
the Fermi paradox because it's, uh, we couldn't syn with minds.

991
01:01:42,576 --> 01:01:44,936
Uh, that we're too far away from the earth.

992
01:01:45,476 --> 01:01:51,876
So like, uh, so reality on other stars don't mix with our reality

993
01:01:51,936 --> 01:01:56,046
simply because of the equivalent of a hash horizon in Bitcoin, you know.

994
01:01:56,377 --> 01:02:00,077
you can't sync a node on Mars because Mars is too far away most of the

995
01:02:00,077 --> 01:02:03,457
time of the year and you definitely couldn't sync a node on Uranus.

996
01:02:03,887 --> 01:02:09,087
Well, uh, and so, uh, so this is where the meme theory of everything sort of,

997
01:02:10,397 --> 01:02:17,242
A UFO or a signal, rather a signal from another galaxy that we cannot interpret

998
01:02:18,412 --> 01:02:25,662
as anything else than another civilization trying to talk with us would debunk the

999
01:02:25,662 --> 01:02:27,692
theory because it's simply too far away.

1000
01:02:28,235 --> 01:02:33,155
But yeah, it's just a theory and just a thought, but I found it intriguing.

1001
01:02:34,481 --> 01:02:35,611
So Bitcoin's quite cool, eh?

1002
01:02:36,938 --> 01:02:41,798
Absolutely, because there's so many, so many parallels, parallels between how

1003
01:02:41,798 --> 01:02:48,478
it actually works technically with all of these, uh, exciting, um, theories

1004
01:02:48,488 --> 01:02:53,108
about reality and consciousness and stuff like this, like syncing time in

1005
01:02:53,108 --> 01:02:58,398
this, uh, intra subjective way instead of having this illusion of objective

1006
01:02:58,398 --> 01:03:04,226
time when there's actually no such thing and, time goes, Let's Time

1007
01:03:04,226 --> 01:03:08,486
flows at different speeds depending on where you are in gravity and stuff.

1008
01:03:08,966 --> 01:03:15,816
So, uh, the thought of intersubjective time and an intersubjective time

1009
01:03:15,816 --> 01:03:20,948
chain is also very Yeah, it opens up a whole plethora of other rabbit

1010
01:03:20,948 --> 01:03:22,743
holes to deep dive into, doesn't it?

1011
01:03:23,817 --> 01:03:27,667
Yeah, intersubjectivity is, is, is interesting one because it's, sort of at

1012
01:03:27,667 --> 01:03:32,085
the core of, like you were saying, the prioritization of perceptions back when,

1013
01:03:33,015 --> 01:03:34,895
normal religions were the main thing.

1014
01:03:34,915 --> 01:03:35,815
Everybody agreed.

1015
01:03:36,305 --> 01:03:40,690
that God was real, and that the stories of the Bible, uh, it happened, and

1016
01:03:40,690 --> 01:03:43,690
so everybody acted as if that was the case, and because everybody acted as

1017
01:03:43,690 --> 01:03:49,169
if that was the case, in some sense it became the case, and, uh, I'm not

1018
01:03:49,169 --> 01:03:51,894
smart enough to understand Nietzsche at all, but I think When he said God

1019
01:03:51,894 --> 01:03:55,984
is dead, to some extent that was an acknowledgement of the fact that whilst

1020
01:03:55,984 --> 01:04:00,104
everybody had the intersubjective consensus that it was the case, that he

1021
01:04:00,104 --> 01:04:02,534
was there, he was there in some other way.

1022
01:04:02,833 --> 01:04:06,251
but then once that, um, consensus died, so did he.

1023
01:04:06,251 --> 01:04:07,931
And the same applies to Bitcoin.

1024
01:04:08,531 --> 01:04:10,781
Bitcoin only exists because everybody believes that it does.

1025
01:04:10,821 --> 01:04:11,861
There's no actual thing.

1026
01:04:12,414 --> 01:04:19,524
and in a large part the same applies to the monetary premium of a 10 pound

1027
01:04:19,524 --> 01:04:24,416
note or a 10 dollar note, because, the belief in the value is what actually

1028
01:04:24,416 --> 01:04:26,586
makes it true that it is valuable.

1029
01:04:26,977 --> 01:04:31,327
so it almost, it goes back to the prioritization of perceptions again.

1030
01:04:31,782 --> 01:04:35,012
prioritize things that have value to you.

1031
01:04:35,452 --> 01:04:39,127
Um, I think this was sort of covered on the There's a guy called Mike

1032
01:04:39,127 --> 01:04:42,667
Hill, another good series on Breedlove that's worth taking a look at.

1033
01:04:42,969 --> 01:04:45,139
the Mike Hill series was really good, he touched upon this a lot.

1034
01:04:45,532 --> 01:04:46,312
yeah, he's great.

1035
01:04:46,857 --> 01:04:51,322
Uh, uh, he, his series about is about the hero's journey stuff, right?

1036
01:04:51,592 --> 01:04:52,882
Or one of the series with him.

1037
01:04:53,462 --> 01:04:53,912
I think,

1038
01:04:54,062 --> 01:04:55,222
of them was, yeah.

1039
01:04:55,922 --> 01:04:57,382
But in general it was about value.

1040
01:04:58,233 --> 01:05:00,033
this reminds me of two things.

1041
01:05:00,093 --> 01:05:05,073
Uh, first, uh, book recommendation Small Gods by Terry Pret, where, where

1042
01:05:05,073 --> 01:05:08,823
this is actually the case that the gods become more alive, the more people

1043
01:05:08,823 --> 01:05:11,593
believe in them, uh, in a fantasy world.

1044
01:05:11,728 --> 01:05:13,783
Uh, uh, and yeah.

1045
01:05:13,783 --> 01:05:14,053
Uh.

1046
01:05:15,066 --> 01:05:20,946
My big thought on this and related to Bitcoin is that Pascal's Wager

1047
01:05:21,636 --> 01:05:24,246
actually provably works with Bitcoin.

1048
01:05:24,256 --> 01:05:31,121
So if you replace the word God, like, Pascal's Wager is like, if you You have

1049
01:05:31,121 --> 01:05:35,131
this binary choice, you can choose to believe that God exists or not exists,

1050
01:05:35,791 --> 01:05:43,241
and if you choose to believe that God does not exist, you risk eternal

1051
01:05:43,241 --> 01:05:47,921
damnation in hell and burning forever and stuff, so why not just act as if God

1052
01:05:47,921 --> 01:05:51,241
exists, and then you mitigate that risk.

1053
01:05:51,551 --> 01:05:55,866
The problem with Pascal's Wager as is, is, uh as I see it, is that

1054
01:05:55,896 --> 01:05:59,136
it discards all the other 5, 000 religions that have a different

1055
01:05:59,156 --> 01:06:00,806
notion of what the word God means.

1056
01:06:01,806 --> 01:06:05,973
But if you do it with Bitcoin, if you act as if Bitcoin exists,

1057
01:06:06,153 --> 01:06:10,303
you actually help it materialize.

1058
01:06:11,228 --> 01:06:16,008
In a very real and direct way, so if you take Bitcoin for a real thing,

1059
01:06:16,038 --> 01:06:20,918
and not as most people think it's funny money, and that it's a scam, and

1060
01:06:20,918 --> 01:06:22,988
it's a pyramid scheme, and whatever.

1061
01:06:23,549 --> 01:06:28,671
And They don't contribute to Bitcoin's existence, but those who live this

1062
01:06:28,691 --> 01:06:33,501
thing, and act as if it exists,

1063
01:06:34,401 --> 01:06:38,291
actually make it come into being, in a very real sense.

1064
01:06:38,871 --> 01:06:42,636
so, I find that insanely fascinating, that, it's actually

1065
01:06:42,636 --> 01:06:45,756
a, provable substitute for God.

1066
01:06:46,319 --> 01:06:49,837
Yeah, it's It's the same with Bitcoin right, if nobody, if there were no

1067
01:06:49,837 --> 01:06:55,057
humans to interpret the binary strings that make up the Bitcoin network, then

1068
01:06:55,057 --> 01:06:56,417
there would be no Bitcoin network.

1069
01:06:56,737 --> 01:07:02,037
It's the interpretation, it's the imposition of meaning onto those binary

1070
01:07:02,037 --> 01:07:04,647
strings that gives it its existence.

1071
01:07:05,107 --> 01:07:10,097
If there was no observer, it's kind of like that double slit meme that you

1072
01:07:10,477 --> 01:07:13,377
shared the other day, where the guy's looking away and it's the wave and

1073
01:07:13,387 --> 01:07:14,377
then he looks at it and it's the thing.

1074
01:07:14,597 --> 01:07:19,447
If nobody's looking at Bitcoin, if there's nobody to interpret, I'd say humans are

1075
01:07:19,557 --> 01:07:25,737
a part of the Bitcoin network because we are the end point interpreter of the code.

1076
01:07:26,351 --> 01:07:28,571
We're the only part, we're the only part of it.

1077
01:07:28,901 --> 01:07:31,931
All the numbers ex, uh, predated us.

1078
01:07:31,931 --> 01:07:35,501
Like all the numbers were already there, mathematics was there along.

1079
01:07:35,501 --> 01:07:36,941
It's just the perception.

1080
01:07:37,391 --> 01:07:39,401
Uh, like we, we are literally the Bitcoins.

1081
01:07:39,941 --> 01:07:41,411
We are literally the network.

1082
01:07:41,701 --> 01:07:45,701
All the computers are just fancy calculators who help us.

1083
01:07:46,046 --> 01:07:47,146
Don't trust verify.

1084
01:07:47,696 --> 01:07:52,996
Uh, so we are the thing, like, and that's why a Satoshi is not just data,

1085
01:07:53,496 --> 01:07:59,896
it's, it's information for like, no, like, yeah, so, so there's a definition

1086
01:07:59,896 --> 01:08:05,031
of the word information, which is like, it's the data that makes sense to you.

1087
01:08:05,301 --> 01:08:06,441
To, to a person.

1088
01:08:07,211 --> 01:08:09,868
And, I would say it's Satoshi's even more than that.

1089
01:08:10,188 --> 01:08:15,508
So it's, it's, it's literally a part of you and me, and, it cannot be

1090
01:08:15,508 --> 01:08:17,528
copied like other data can be copied.

1091
01:08:18,173 --> 01:08:18,613
At all.

1092
01:08:19,151 --> 01:08:21,981
It's the ability to move the satoshi that is the satoshi.

1093
01:08:22,001 --> 01:08:24,911
The information about the asset is the asset, and so on.

1094
01:08:25,477 --> 01:08:28,297
Yeah, I wrote an article when I was working at FastBitcoins.

1095
01:08:28,532 --> 01:08:33,332
That was, had a similar point, which is that, um, the only, if the only

1096
01:08:33,332 --> 01:08:37,492
fun, if, if Bitcoin doesn't exist while it's static, if the only function it

1097
01:08:37,492 --> 01:08:41,222
has is to move or to change hands, to change addresses, um, then it

1098
01:08:41,262 --> 01:08:45,162
only sort of, it's like an emergent property that comes into existence at

1099
01:08:45,162 --> 01:08:49,502
the point that it moves, um, because it's the only function that it serves.

1100
01:08:49,682 --> 01:08:50,612
It can only move.

1101
01:08:50,916 --> 01:08:52,346
and so while it's static, it's gone.

1102
01:08:52,615 --> 01:08:57,145
and the only thing that when you say I own two bitcoins worth of UTXOs,

1103
01:08:57,535 --> 01:09:01,185
you're just owning optionality to bring those bitcoins back into existence

1104
01:09:01,185 --> 01:09:02,345
at the point at which they move.

1105
01:09:03,207 --> 01:09:05,967
if you, if you're seeing it as we are the bitcoins, then they could

1106
01:09:05,977 --> 01:09:07,367
exist even when they're not moving.

1107
01:09:07,887 --> 01:09:09,497
I've never seen, I've never seen it as that way.

1108
01:09:09,968 --> 01:09:15,728
I say that they do because of a thing that Mises points out

1109
01:09:16,238 --> 01:09:18,708
about money is never idle.

1110
01:09:18,708 --> 01:09:25,567
Money Always serves a purpose, even when it doesn't change hands, because,

1111
01:09:25,577 --> 01:09:31,527
because it, uh, provides its owner with a sense of security and, uh, uh,

1112
01:09:31,787 --> 01:09:36,471
more optionality to do more stuff, and, uh, therefore lower time preference.

1113
01:09:36,851 --> 01:09:41,921
So, so it's always serves a function, a function for its holder, and especially

1114
01:09:41,921 --> 01:09:43,361
when, when they're a part of you.

1115
01:09:43,881 --> 01:09:47,731
So like, I wrote an article about that and I had a talk

1116
01:09:47,741 --> 01:09:49,061
about it and everything and the.

1117
01:09:49,201 --> 01:09:53,611
The way I see it, the, the miner is not the asic, it's the guy who decides

1118
01:09:53,611 --> 01:09:57,254
to buy the ASIC and plug it in and run the code, because without that

1119
01:09:57,254 --> 01:09:59,204
action, the, the, the ASIC is nothing.

1120
01:09:59,754 --> 01:10:04,614
And the, and same thing with the nodes and all the bitcoins rec

1121
01:10:04,614 --> 01:10:07,434
reside within our heads because it's all about keeping secrets.

1122
01:10:08,249 --> 01:10:11,779
That all, all the private keys are kept in a head somewhere,

1123
01:10:12,079 --> 01:10:13,359
in someone's head somewhere.

1124
01:10:13,829 --> 01:10:17,989
There is no private key that is So the location of a hardware

1125
01:10:17,989 --> 01:10:21,489
wallet, the location of a seed phrase, that's also a secret.

1126
01:10:21,569 --> 01:10:23,049
It's also in someone's head.

1127
01:10:23,403 --> 01:10:27,093
Right, in this, yeah, in the same way that like, numbers exist in your head,

1128
01:10:27,103 --> 01:10:29,643
you can write them on a whiteboard, but you're like, you're drawing symbols,

1129
01:10:29,643 --> 01:10:33,113
but the actual numbers aren't on the whiteboard then, it's the interpretation

1130
01:10:33,113 --> 01:10:36,563
that gives the numbers their, their meaning, or the symbols their meaning, so

1131
01:10:36,563 --> 01:10:38,783
the numbers only, same applies to Bitcoin.

1132
01:10:39,416 --> 01:10:44,236
And here's the fun, this was told to me as a joke, but I love it so much.

1133
01:10:44,936 --> 01:10:46,606
Bitcoin has always existed.

1134
01:10:47,086 --> 01:10:54,596
It's just that the hash rate was zero before 2009, which is provably true.

1135
01:10:55,636 --> 01:10:56,616
All the numbers were there.

1136
01:10:58,886 --> 01:11:00,716
So it's absolutely 100 percent true.

1137
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:06,100
In that case, what, what, so AI cannot become conscious then, right?

1138
01:11:06,100 --> 01:11:10,540
If it's just the interpretation of symbols that exist only within your side,

1139
01:11:10,540 --> 01:11:18,330
there is sort of a, what if the blank canvas of reality is an interpretive,

1140
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:23,470
like a drive on a computer that interprets whatever material world is,

1141
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:28,140
and that's what gives rise to the human experience, but then humans develop

1142
01:11:28,150 --> 01:11:29,960
their own interpretive structures.

1143
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:37,895
That give meaning to, things like numbers and binary, and then through

1144
01:11:37,895 --> 01:11:42,775
the increasing complexification of that binary code, it then begins to

1145
01:11:42,775 --> 01:11:45,515
resemble the humans that interpret it.

1146
01:11:45,515 --> 01:11:48,685
But if it's just, if it only has meaning in the same way that Bitcoin doesn't

1147
01:11:48,685 --> 01:11:52,915
exist, if you take the humans out, if you take the humans out of the AI, then

1148
01:11:52,925 --> 01:11:55,335
the AI isn't, doesn't exist either.

1149
01:11:55,375 --> 01:11:56,835
It's the interpretation of it.

1150
01:11:58,420 --> 01:12:00,670
I don't know why I've got balloons flying up,

1151
01:12:02,550 --> 01:12:02,910
Love it.

1152
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:10,112
But yeah, artificial intelligence, like, in my mind, it's, it's not intelligence

1153
01:12:10,112 --> 01:12:11,692
at all because it lacks agency.

1154
01:12:12,342 --> 01:12:15,482
It, it doesn't have free will and therefore it's not intelligent.

1155
01:12:16,822 --> 01:12:21,592
So it's, it's good at guessing what word comes next.

1156
01:12:21,602 --> 01:12:27,522
It's really damn good at that, but it's, it's, I don't see it ever developing

1157
01:12:27,772 --> 01:12:33,362
a, a mind of its own, uh, not anytime soon anyway, and, uh, I, I think we're,

1158
01:12:34,739 --> 01:12:41,839
If we truly want to make a sentient AI, I think we're looking in the wrong

1159
01:12:41,839 --> 01:12:46,289
direction, like, I think we're searching in the wrong place for that, because

1160
01:12:46,299 --> 01:12:55,059
I think it has so much to do with felt uneasiness, and why you perform actions

1161
01:12:55,129 --> 01:13:02,004
at all, why you feel an urge to do something, it's because you You imagine

1162
01:13:02,034 --> 01:13:06,754
a state of the future in which you have done a thing, and that state is preferable

1163
01:13:06,764 --> 01:13:12,464
to you, to what you live in right now, and how can a computer ever do that?

1164
01:13:13,419 --> 01:13:15,989
Uh, how could, how could an algorithm ever do that?

1165
01:13:15,989 --> 01:13:17,279
I just don't see that happening.

1166
01:13:17,344 --> 01:13:20,454
but how do you know that you're doing that if you can't define you?

1167
01:13:21,964 --> 01:13:23,124
Yeah, that's a good question.

1168
01:13:24,306 --> 01:13:29,386
Because pain is, again, a relationary thing, and if you can't define you or

1169
01:13:29,386 --> 01:13:33,426
can't prove that you is something separate than other, it could all be illusory.

1170
01:13:33,526 --> 01:13:38,486
And therefore pain is just a consistent pattern rather than an actual thing.

1171
01:13:39,234 --> 01:13:45,494
Absolutely, all these dichotomies might be false at the, on a very basic

1172
01:13:45,494 --> 01:13:48,044
layer, but they can still be useful.

1173
01:13:48,174 --> 01:13:52,744
I, I can still, like, use the term you and use the term felt uneasiness

1174
01:13:53,064 --> 01:13:54,814
in a context that makes sense.

1175
01:13:55,194 --> 01:13:59,564
And like, I'm, I'm just trying to Like, explain why I don't think

1176
01:13:59,574 --> 01:14:03,034
that AIs will ever become sentient.

1177
01:14:03,034 --> 01:14:08,964
It's because of this motivating factor that acting human beings

1178
01:14:08,964 --> 01:14:11,124
have to do conscious things.

1179
01:14:11,394 --> 01:14:16,864
To do, to engage in purposeful behavior rather than just acting on instinct.

1180
01:14:17,485 --> 01:14:18,665
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

1181
01:14:19,079 --> 01:14:23,475
Yeah.

1182
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:26,890
I don't know where it comes from, but I do think it's real.

1183
01:14:29,295 --> 01:14:34,466
Hey guys, maybe to bring this back into a more, uh, concrete side of things because

1184
01:14:34,700 --> 01:14:35,590
Boring!

1185
01:14:35,910 --> 01:14:37,368
been, this was great.

1186
01:14:37,968 --> 01:14:39,778
Enjoyed listening in.

1187
01:14:40,168 --> 01:14:45,588
Um, but hey, Angela, maybe you could talk about what are

1188
01:14:45,588 --> 01:14:48,168
your plans in the near term?

1189
01:14:48,398 --> 01:14:52,138
Like, I know you've mentioned your video agency, but what

1190
01:14:52,348 --> 01:14:53,638
are you trying to do with that?

1191
01:14:53,848 --> 01:14:55,888
And what are your goals in the near term?

1192
01:14:55,888 --> 01:14:56,198
Well,

1193
01:14:56,858 --> 01:15:00,878
So in the near term, it's just, um, I'm bootstrapping it, uh,

1194
01:15:00,998 --> 01:15:03,808
myself really, so it's just getting initial cash flow and stuff so that

1195
01:15:03,808 --> 01:15:06,308
I can get out more into the world.

1196
01:15:06,358 --> 01:15:09,028
Um, I think, um, I'm looking forward to Madeira.

1197
01:15:09,438 --> 01:15:10,518
Um, that should be fun.

1198
01:15:11,026 --> 01:15:13,526
and going to some conferences next year, hopefully, I want to get

1199
01:15:13,526 --> 01:15:15,606
to Nashville as well, but I don't know if that's happening yet.

1200
01:15:15,989 --> 01:15:17,219
but yeah, that would be really good.

1201
01:15:17,269 --> 01:15:21,159
And then, and then, yeah, just, just working towards the idea of a documentary.

1202
01:15:21,159 --> 01:15:24,919
I want to, I haven't spoken to him yet, but I want to get in touch with, um,

1203
01:15:25,399 --> 01:15:30,174
Gladstein and the Human Rights Foundation and eventually, like, might sort of My

1204
01:15:30,184 --> 01:15:34,934
mid to long term plan is to do some sort of documentary piece that brings the

1205
01:15:34,964 --> 01:15:40,144
idea of the currency caste system to a form that is digestible to most people.

1206
01:15:40,486 --> 01:15:43,236
that is something that I would love to do, uh, longer term.

1207
01:15:43,586 --> 01:15:46,336
I know you asked near term, but, but yeah, everything that I do near term

1208
01:15:46,336 --> 01:15:47,516
is sort of to work towards that.

1209
01:15:47,516 --> 01:15:49,706
So hi, Alex, if you're listening.

1210
01:15:49,842 --> 01:15:50,662
Fantastic.

1211
01:15:50,782 --> 01:15:56,242
Um, yeah, I think this is a good point to wrap it up, , so any

1212
01:15:56,242 --> 01:15:59,942
way you want to direct our, our listeners to Angelo, like, um.

1213
01:16:00,212 --> 01:16:02,752
Where can we find you on the internet if we want more?

1214
01:16:03,156 --> 01:16:08,606
so my Twitter is My, my Twitter's at Angelo underscore Summers, spelled S O

1215
01:16:08,606 --> 01:16:14,966
M E R S, and the, the website is, um, for the agency is permissionlessltd.

1216
01:16:14,996 --> 01:16:15,326
com.

1217
01:16:15,839 --> 01:16:17,579
so I don't know when this is going out, but the website

1218
01:16:17,599 --> 01:16:19,019
should be up and running by then.

1219
01:16:19,936 --> 01:16:24,526
and yeah, that's just about the only two I really want to direct anyone to.

1220
01:16:25,755 --> 01:16:27,935
Okay, this has been the Freedom Footprint show.

1221
01:16:27,935 --> 01:16:31,595
Don't forget to like, subscribe, and brush your damn teeth,

1222
01:16:31,935 --> 01:16:34,175
and see you next time, folks!

1223
01:16:34,951 --> 01:16:35,631
Thank you for having me.

1224
01:16:35,681 --> 01:16:36,331
Cheers, guys.