I do think I have good meaning for life.
It's just that I feel like things are way too easy.
I had this thought in my mind, years ago, that would be like really awesome to work
on Bitcoin things and not really have to have, a fiat job Well, I got that.
Then I also realized when I got a little bit deeper into Bitcoin stuff
that I really want to, focus on doing something really, really meaningful.
And I, feel like working on Bitcoin and especially like
working on Bitcoin privacy.
is probably one of the most urgent things that we should be working on
Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint show.
Today's guest is our good friend Rafe from Wasabi.
And this is the second time on the show.
If you want an introduction to Rafe and everything that he's up
to, check out the first episode.
But today we want to talk about anything and everything.
So, Rafe, welcome back to the Freedom Footprint show.
Great to have you as always.
Luke.
Thank you, Knut.
Like, it's also like, really awesome to be talking with you guys again.
Yeah, great to have you back, uh, uh, Rafael, and, uh, you're already
on Madeira, as we understand it.
yeah, there's this sovereign engineering cohort, uh, that has been going on over
here, like, already for like, 6 weeks.
I mean, I just came in, uh, like, 2 weeks ago, but it's really, really awesome.
Like, there's, you know, like, 25 Nostr and Bitcoin builders basically in here
just creating havoc and, you know, trying to orange pill the whole island.
And I mean, it's actually going pretty well.
Uh, fantastic.
It's Gigi and Pablo's project, right?
Uh, yes, yes, they are mainly running it.
Yeah, sounds, sounds absolutely fantastic.
Yeah, I mean, this is a really nice paradise island, so like, if
you can take a little bit of your time to come over here before the
conference or to stay after it, I think it's going to be worth it.
yeah.
Uh, and you.
You have a bunch of topics that you want to talk to us about today, and I looked
through the notes there, and it sounds really, really interesting, so I think
we can just start getting into stuff here, because, like, these are topics
that just excite me by just reading them.
So, the first point on that list is censorship, and I guess
Uh, or no, the first point is it doesn't not matter who I am.
Um, all right, I'll, I'll take it away, Rafa.
I mean, this is the first thing of like, you know, it doesn't matter who I am.
It's just the thing that I've always wanted to say.
And I always wonder, like, you know, How, I mean, it's totally normal that in
every podcast you're being asked, like, you know, who you are and what do you do?
It's an important context for the viewer or the listener, but it's also
something that a little bit bothers me that no one is actually saying it out
loud, or at least I haven't heard it whenever they are asked that question,
that it doesn't matter who I am.
Like, whatever
Rafa?
well, that's the thing.
I'm still kind of figuring it out, but, the point is basically
that, like, what I'm saying is the thing that should matter.
It's not really about who I am or who is saying it.
Like, if the things that I'm saying out there, like, if they make sense.
That's the only thing to care about.
Who said it or where or when or something like that.
I mean, it might help you to get a little bit more of that similar
type of content or something, but in general, people should not be looking
into like, you know, some kind of titles or, or anything like that.
No, no, no, I, I, I totally agree.
It's an ego dropping thing.
And this is one of the most refreshing things about the
Bitcoin space in comparison to the fiat space that, that I know.
Like when I started working in an office and fiat job.
Like, before I, I had a title, or like, before I climbed the hierarchy
ladders, uh, before I started climbing them, like, no one was listening to me.
Because it's all about like, uh, titles and, and stuff.
And I think a lot of institutions are that way too.
So, so like, um, but Bitcoin is, it's so refreshing because like, everything that
matters is ideas and merits and like, it's, it's a true meritocracy in that way.
People don't really care about your back, background as long as
you have something clever to say.
And like, Satoshi is the prime example of that.
Like, nobody even knows if he has a master's degree or If it's
flipping burgers, or if it was flipping burgers, and nobody cares
because the idea was good enough.
Is that what you're thinking of when you say it doesn't matter who I am?
Yes, exactly.
And it's just like, you know, I'm really glad that Luke, now you basically just
gave me exactly like, you know, the good introduction where I don't have to go
ahead and try to even explain like, you know, who I am or what I do or anything,
just like in Twitter, I just have in my bio, like, I'm just another pleb.
Like, it doesn't really matter.
But yeah, this was just like, you know, a small nuance that
I wanted to throw out there.
Like, if, you know, Luke would be asking me to introduce myself.
Yeah, there's, there's been and forth, like people in Bitcoin have different
opinions on The role of the ego.
So some people want us to drop our egos completely.
And there's a, there's a very good reason for doing that because most of
the time your ego is what's actually hindering you from getting ahead in life.
Like being shy is just as much of an ego thing as being.
narcissistic in a way, because if you're shy, that's also a vanity thing.
Like you're not giving the world the parts of you that you could give away.
Like you could, you could be more open.
You could be more.
But for, for egotistical reasons, you're not.
So, so I think like, uh, there's more to dropping your ego than
just not being a narcissist.
um, then, then you have people like Svetsky, for instance, arguing
for that ego is a very good thing.
And it's a, it's a powerful force in people and it should
be embraced rather than dropped.
So what, what are your views on ego in general?
I mean, that's a very good question.
And I mean, I kind of totally understand both points of view.
Um, like it's, at least for me personally, I try to totally exactly like kill my ego
every now and then, uh, because I feel like it makes me think a bit more clear.
Like, I mean, maybe this is a good segue to, to kind of like the, the topic
of, you know, human relationships and like, you know, how our brains work.
Uh, but at least in my opinion, ego is kind of like a part of the automatic self.
So there's this book, uh, that I might have mentioned to you guys
before thinking fast and slow.
Which is really, really, really, like, worth reading, but it basically gives
out this, like, idea, or at least how I took it was that it's not really
about, like, you know, humans being fully conscious or, like, 100 percent
all the time there, it's that it's, We have just a glimpse of consciousness and
majority of our time, majority of our actions and our day basically goes just
like through automation, just through our habits, just like with animals.
There's just these, let's say like 5 percent of the time we get this
glimpse of consciousness where we actually think of like, you know,
what, like we can think back or, uh, like look forward or, or whatever.
Uh, I kind of feel like.
Well, ego is a bit more of those, like, automation related things.
It's kind of, you are building up this, like, small story of yourself and what
you are and what you do over here.
And, I mean, you can think of it consciously, too, but it's just
something that, like, automation basically, like, activates the ego
and pushes you to move into certain directions or make certain decisions.
And I think it is important.
but I myself personally, like I would, I would want to focus on just the like
cognitive side and actually thinking things through without like, you
know, just the personal lens of mine, which of course is important too, but
Yeah, it's a hard, it's a hard thing to do though, to be as objective as possible.
But I guess, like, we have minds, all three of us, that like doing
that, I mean, we wouldn't be into mathematics and praxeology and stuff
if we didn't, we wouldn't, we probably wouldn't be bitcoiners, I think
that's sort of prerequisite, uh, for Mo for, for real Bitcoin curiosity.
Uh, at least, Yeah.
Dan Daniel Kahneman.
Was that the guy, Daniel Kahneman?
Was that the, the, uh, the guy who wrote the book?
Right?
I, I think I read half that book, but it was a long, long time ago.
So, uh, uh, I'll have to reread it sometime.
yeah, and it's also kind of like hard to read or I mean, I, I tend to listen to it
like in, you know, audio books, but that book was something where I actually had
to take like a pen and paper and like, you know, write some things and numbers down.
So I actually understand the.
Yeah.
The examples and, you know, things that the book had over there, but it's to me,
at least it's definitely like one of the most powerful books that I've read, like
understanding human biases and what we're kind of like, you know, like programmed
to do as just another life form.
you just give us, tell us more about that?
Like, more about what you learned there?
So, um, I mean, the book is about basically, well, at least how I took it.
I mean, many people seem to have a little bit different ideas about, like, what
the book is trying to say over there.
Uh, but at least to me, it's kind of like, you know, uh, acknowledging how there is
basically like two selves in our heads.
Uh, you know, like there's the, the automated self, which is basically
like, you know, just animal instincts and like emotions and just reactions.
And then there is like exactly this, like, you know, smaller cognitive
side, like, and it's kind of like the one that can actually think, you
know, in the past, and it can look into the future, look into the, like,
the current situation and everything.
It's the one that kind of like, the most people seem to be thinking
that that's their own, like, self.
uh, but it's like the book is basically saying that, you know, for a majority
of the things that you're doing, uh, throughout the day, it's not really that
you have cognitively decided to do so.
Like, for example, if I smoke a cigarette, majority of the time, it's just automated.
Like, it's something that triggered me.
Like, you know, to actually do the move of like reaching out
to my pocket and grabbing a cigarette or something like that.
And I kind of realized it only after I'm halfway through the cigarette,
like, why am I smoking this?
Like, how did this happen?
You know, like I am, let's say like, you know, running, um, like driving
in, in traffic or like, you know, with the car, that's usually something
also that first, when it's a new thing to you, you have to activate your
cognitive side to actually remember, like, you know, how do you drive a car?
Like, especially if it has like, you know, shifts and everything.
Like, that's very cumbersome and, like, it takes a lot of energy.
So we try to save this cognitive side and not use it for the most of the time.
We try to always, like, use it as, like, you know, little as possible and then
pass the task to the automated side.
So, for example, with a car, we have probably all been in there,
like, you know, seen or felt the situation where you're driving.
You go through, like, uh, some kind of traffic lights or something.
You pass them, but you wonder after that, like, was it even green?
Like, what was the color of that?
Like, you know, it's just your automation basically handled
that task and your cognitive side never had to even like wake up.
but yeah, it also kind of like talks about how there is a lot of these like
biases basically like built into us.
Like, you know, of course we have all kinds of like confirmation biases.
We don't want to, or like, it's easier for us to try to look for
information that kind of like, you know.
Confirms our expectations, our thoughts, our wants than to actually see it like,
you know, very realistically, all the actual research and, you know, the
things also pointing how we are wrong.
yeah, I think you'd just love our episode with Volker Herminghaus
from a couple of weeks back.
It's about consciousness and free will, and if we have it or not, and like,
where does it come from, and how we can't really It can't really be our
conscious side of the brain that has the free will, because it has a delay of 0.
3 seconds.
So when you think you're making a decision, the decision has
already been made for you by your brain, like, before you Before
you consciously make the decision.
So where is the decision?
And how could the decision even be made?
Like, wouldn't the synapses have to go back and forth in time in order for there
to actually be such a thing as free will?
So yeah, very interesting topics indeed.
Yeah.
And that's the thing, like, the free will part is also something
that the book touches a bit.
So.
Like, it's exactly saying how these two different parts of your brain, it's not
exactly like parts, but let's just say like, you know, two different personas
in your head or something like that, the automated and the cognitive one, they have
totally different opinions about things.
Like, I mean, I'm just kind of like putting it out in this way, but like,
for example, you know, your cognitive side is probably the one who's
actually thinking of like, okay, I should go ahead and start working out.
And, you know, like, I should eat better or, or whatever, but it's like, you know,
that's cognitive side is not that strong.
It's not that active all the time.
And majority of the time you go with the automation and the automation is lazy.
Like, I mean, it's.
Yeah.
It also just goes, you know, doesn't want to go to a gym and doesn't
just want to order some burgers.
It's kind of two, two totally different personas that are fighting inside
your head, like, you know, for like, and wanting totally different things.
Yeah, this is so cool that you brought this up, because this is actually
A part of a chapter for a new book I'm writing at the time, and the
chapter is called Mind Over Matter.
And the first thing that comes to mind, before diving into that, is the
impression of a Donald Duck cartoon, where there's an angel Donald Duck and
a devil Donald Duck above his head.
And they're having an argument of what to do.
And I guess the angel side is the more thinking side, and the
devil side is just the impulse.
Side that wants to do, wants to have that extra cigarette
and not do the push ups, right?
So, so, and I think that's why that works so well, because it's a perfect metaphor.
It feels like a dichotomy, it feels like two different sides of
yourself, but, but you're both Dr.
Jekyll and Mr.
Hyde, you aren't just one aspect of it, And the thing, the thing with the
There's so much here, we've had some great conversations on the show about
how, to which extent the mind creates reality and stuff, I don't know if you
heard that, but like about you choose to focus on becomes your actual subjective
reality, like the example Jeff Boothgay was, if you're in a crowded room and
someone even whispers your name, your attention instantly focuses on that.
Uh, voice that just whispered your name and all of the other parts
of the conversation going on in the party is just white noise, but
you hear this one signal perfectly clear because you're focused on it.
So focus and attention creates reality to a much larger extent than we expect.
And what is objective reality?
It's just where our memes collide and where, where these consciousnesses Crash
into one another, and if you take, like, theory of relativity into that, and,
you know, time space, and time being relative to, uh, to what speed you
have throughout, through the universe and stuff, Uh, and it's everything
being points on a 4D plane, and, like, is linear time even a real thing?
and then bake in some quantum mechanics and you know, these, um, particles that
have entanglement through space and through time, uh, could particles, they at
least suspect that they're, uh, um, from what I know that they're entangled through
time and also, and not only through space.
So could that have something to do with free will?
That, that a thought can actually go back in time?
I don't know, but I, I love the subject.
Okay.
Yeah.
I have an opinion.
Like, yeah, I should definitely, uh, like read more about this
kind of, you know, topics,
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I can recommend a couple of things after the show.
yeah, I, uh, I mentioned that, um, you know, space time and the, one of the
points on your list here is Einstein.
So what did, what did you want to talk about about Einstein?
Oh, okay.
So, I mean, we have to go a little bit back, maybe like now a lot, like we'll
get to Einstein maybe a bit, a bit later now, but I kind of wanted to challenge
you guys because I heard that you, you guys are kind of like both, um, you know,
like pro kids and pro family, right?
Um, yeah, we both have
Yeah, yeah,
families.
Yeah.
yeah, like, and in our last episode, we basically, like, you know, very much
agreed on the foolishness of, well, like, you know, a lot of the religious stuff
and everything, and I thought that maybe, like, this is something that we can
actually, like, debate a little bit about, and this is just, like, really, really
difficult topic to talk about, because everyone who's going to say or would say
the things that I'm going to be saying can be seen as, you know, like, very
asshole, because My point is basically like, you know, that I, I'm not saying
that people should not have families or girlfriends or like, you know, a very,
like, you know, nice kids and everything.
I just think that for a majority of the cases, it's just a stupid accident.
And it's just that we have exactly that weird confirmation bias where it's so
difficult for us to kind of, you know, like, admit when we've done something,
let's say, not that smart, and we're kind of stuck with our, like, you
know, stupid, like, maybe automation, uh, like, you know, based decisions.
So, like, I'm not saying that, you know, all kids that are out there, all
families are made by, like, you know, like, that is a result of foolishness.
No, I'm just saying that just like, for example, you know, for beavers,
it's like a hard coded thing for them to go ahead and build dams.
For example, it's not something that their mom teaches them or something like that.
No, you can take a baby beaver out of the, you know, like the mom beaver right away.
When it gets born,
out to the mom.
like a house.
out to the mom.
Beaver's, beaver, you mean?
Yeah.
like, you know, the beaver will start actually like, you know, gathering up
some like toys, uh, like kid toys and starting to put them in the hallways.
And even the beaver itself seems to be confused of like,
why the fuck am I doing this?
But like, in the same way that the beaver has these, you know, like maybe hard
coded things, uh, features in its genes.
We, of course, as humans, just like with beavers too, we have basically the, like
the hard coded feature of reproduction.
So like, yeah.
Any life form out there, like, either they will have to become immortal or be
immortal, or they will have to learn to reproduce, or they will cease to exist.
So, you know, like, for us, for example, wanting to have a family or wanting to
have kids, it's not really a cognitively rational decision for most of the cases.
It's, it's just like automation.
And at least from my experience, going with your automation and your
emotions into these kind of like big decisions, like, for example, like,
you know, forming a relationship or having kids that has probably caused
like more problems than actual benefits.
Uh, like, so what I'm trying to say here is that people should, should
kind of be aware of these hard coded.
Like, you know, features, uh, in our genes, basically, to try to reproduce, but
how it's just another emotion out there.
Yeah, maybe I'll, I'll start with that one.
Uh, we'll get into like, probably like deeper parts of this.
Exactly.
there's a word for that before, for the morality of not having kids.
Like the, there's a, uh, a philosophical ethical case for, for not reproducing.
And it's from this really kind of dark and depressing school of thought
where, where, where you admit to yourself and everyone else that life
is more suffering than it is happiness.
Basically, and that everyone's, everyone's final days will probably suck more
than, it'll probably not be worth it.
That's the, as far as I understand it, this is the premise of that
worldview, that the pain of death is definitely not worth it.
Um.
Especially not if you take this relativistic time into the equation
and everything exists everywhere at once and stuff, so, yeah.
Then again, uh, free will and stuff, and we can't stop it
because it was an instinct.
And, uh, we're, we're stuck with it so we better do the best we can with it.
Uh, I don't know, uh I mean, I think these things are worth
thinking about, definitely.
And, uh, I think there's certainly, I think every parent thinks that
there's a certain aspect of kids being the, just a sexual hangover.
And maybe, like when you get, when you get the kid, first kid.
You very quickly realize that, holy shit, I've made a move that I can't take back.
I've done something that is very, very, much more irreversible than any
other decision I've made in my life.
Like, like everything else you can just apologize for and try to forget about.
Like, but this one is hard to reverse.
But that's also, also the beauty of it.
You know, because, like, um, it, to me it makes Uh, well, it's, it
doesn't make life more meaningful.
That's bullshit.
But it does, uh, it does give, uh, it, it does give you a, uh, person
to give the existential baton too, so that you don't have to worry about
it anymore, if you know what I mean.
uh, and, and that feels good.
Like, okay.
Yeah.
I haven't figured it out yet.
You do it.
Good luck, bye.
That's sort of And I think that if people were more honest, they would admit that,
that it's a lot about, you know, giving the existential baton to the next on this,
well said.
And just to also clarify, like, I don't have, you know, like this very,
like what you mentioned, you know, the very grim view of, uh, like, you know,
world that you should not create kids because the life is more of suffering.
I mean, that part, I agree.
Life is probably like, you know, in some way.
uh, like the more you're cognitively awake, the more you probably will be
suffering, you know, in the, in the world.
Uh, but like, I don't think like even I, for myself, like currently, you
know, like I am single and I don't have kids, but I have nothing against it.
And I actually still am like, you know, hopeful, romantic, and that I hope that
I actually can find someone like, you know, a good girl that I can, you know,
like be with, and maybe even have kids and actually be happy and all of that.
The likelihood of it is relatively, let's say like pretty low, like just being
a bitcorner itself, kind of like, you know, let's say like makes the amount
of possible girls who can actually like, you know, accept you as you are, uh,
like it makes it like smaller, um, plus all the other stuff, of course, but,
uh, like in general, also like exactly, you know, what you said about like
passing the baton to the next person.
That's the thing.
Why?
I'm kind of a little bit disappointed whenever I see, you know, people
saying that the, the main point of life is to have kids, I mean,
could be, but then we get into the questions of like, okay, how many, why?
And, you know, like, there's, there's a lot of things that usually are not
really explainable properly, but like, especially for Bitcoiners and for like,
you know, if we want to be really like fully responsible of our own lives, you
Like, creating kids just because you're kind of like hoping that maybe he will
figure something out and do something great is just very, like, weirdly kind
of like trying to pass the responsibility to others, like, if you really see the
things, you know, how they are and how bad they are, like, Creating, like not working
on them yourself, like kind of going with these like, you know, animal instinct
urges to go ahead and like, you know, fuck whatever moves or, you know, like things
like that and get trapped, basically, like, if you have been like that, you
know, a bit kind of like lazy, you're, you're kind of stuck with that life.
And it's going to be harder for you to actually, you know, do something,
let's say exactly like Einstein.
Like, why I put it out there in the notes is basically exactly that, like, if you
think that you are one of the smartest people out there, or like, especially,
um, like the smartest ones, but even if you think that you are more, like, smarter
than the average, like, why would you ever go ahead and basically, like, waste
your time in playing house Basically, like, you know, that's what we're doing.
Like girls used to play with Barbies and, you know, like do their teapots,
uh, things and everything like that.
The guys used to actually, you know, play with like action figures and
try to do something heroic, like, you know, go into a war or, or whatever.
Like now, whenever we grow up, even men, like, you know, kind of tends to go ahead
and either explain to themselves or just, they prefer to just, you know, play house.
Be nicely chilling in the sofa and watching Netflix instead of doing
something really difficult, something crazy hard, just like Einstein or
like Nikolai Tesla or whatever.
Like they, they went and kind of resisted the urge to just go ahead
and be stuck with a girl to be able to actually, you know, produce something
really meaningful to their life.
Um, because everything that you do is just a trade off with your time.
Like all the relationships, it's just a time sink.
And if you do choose or end up by accident into these time sinks, you will never be
able to, like, you know, really control your time and put out as much effort as
maybe would have been possible if you would not taken these automated actions.
Uh, that is very seldom talked about because it's such a taboo, uh, topic, uh,
but a by product of women getting into the workforce, uh, because when, what
we really did when, when, uh, you know, letting women into the workforce and
letting them have, uh, voting rights and whatever, is that we, we, uh, Switched
out the alleged patriarch, the, the, the family father, or the alleged, um,
patriarch is not the right word because that has kind of a positive connotation
in my ears, but like, uh, the alleged, um, Oppressor, the Patriarch Dad, with
the real oppressor, the Patriarch State, which is oppressing everyone by stealing
their stuff and making them stuck in these hamster's wheels and having to
do their chores over and over again and everyone becomes, as you say, they're
too tired to do anything after work day.
They just sit on the sofa and watch Netflix and do, have no ambition with
their lives and so I, I think it's somewhat connected to, just fiat in,
in general that we've, um, we're, we're not incentivized to, to, to pursue
higher goals and the more socialistic our societies become and the more you
get punished for being, uh, bold, I mean, you get what you pay for if you
pay social, if you have a big social security network, you're paying people
to sit on the sofa and watch Netflix.
So, so I think there's a lot to that, that we're, we're incentivizing
people to, to not be ambitious, to not be brave, and to not be heroic.
Uh, we're incentivizing people to sit home and watch Netflix, as
you say, and eat cheese doodles.
Yep.
I mean, I think the thing is exactly like, you know, I mean, it's
understandable why people went into a lot of these different relationships,
especially like back, you know.
Back, you know, like, uh, some years ago when we didn't have, like, you know, all
of these weird services that government nowadays provides and everything.
So I do understand that there's, there's certain reasons why people
would have, like, you know, out of need or, or everything, like, you know, to.
To kind of like, you know, marry or have kids, you know, to just have some
people to take care of the land or the farm or, or whatever, but like, for,
like, nowadays for majority of people, it seems like women don't need men and
men don't need women, like, there is.
Only like, you know, the, the weird animal urge that we still have for the
opposite sex, maybe it's some weird hormones or whatever, but like, let's
say, you know, like, previously, if it was for men, like, you know, that to have,
like, you know, someone nice, uh, like, you know, walking around, maybe doing
some food or like, you know, cleaning the house or something like that, no,
you can just hire people now for that.
Like, you don't need an actual girlfriend to get, you know,
those kind of things done.
And even for sex, like there's a lot of services, like you don't
need girl for the sex part too.
It's now just about this, like, you know, story that we have been told to
that we should be in a relationship.
And there is, you know, some perfect girl out there or like a guy or whatever.
I just feel like, you know, it's more understandable nowadays if people
don't go into relationships because there's no need for it anymore.
Or like, other than the reproduction part,
but I have a slightly different viewpoint here, and that is that we're, we're
I'm tempted to think that we don't need a relationship and that we don't
need spouses, but it's not really true.
It's just very convenient for the people in charge to have us think
that these things are not necessary.
But like, to become a sovereign individual, truly sovereign individual,
I really think you do need a wife to take care of the kids and do the
dishes and all of this boring stuff so you can provide for the family.
And those are, like, these are very traditional values, but I think that
there's, there's something to this that got lost along the way, I mean, I, I think
people should be allowed to do whatever they want, and if women want to have a
career instead of having kids, like, go ahead, I have nothing against that, but
I think with that whole package Now that every girl is, like, expected to have a
career on top of being a mother, and guys are expected to do motherly chores, uh,
like, that's something got lost along the way there, and we sort of live in
this Fake reality that we think we can live without one another, but you, if
you want to be a sovereign, and if you want to be able to support yourself and
stuff, have a citadel and a farm and stuff, you probably couldn't do that
without the proper wife, and vice versa.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's the thing.
Like, I, like I said, I would personally love to have exactly like, you know, a
good girl and have, you know, like, a nice little ranch or something like that.
But at least, like, I totally get why.
It's kind of like difficult for even like, you know, women to go on with that
deal nowadays, like, you know, this is something that it's like, it's maybe like
a little bit weird, but I wonder how a lot of the women, especially before this
modern medicine and, you know, science, how the hell, or like, it's definitely
not like conscious decision to go ahead and like make kids Uh, other than for
like, you know, benefiting from them basically, like in some way, but like,
just imagine how weird it was and how risky it was back then for a woman to
actually like put out like a watermelon sized thingy out of their pussy.
Like it's a huge risk, like the baby might die.
You might die.
Like.
There's a huge amount of like, you know, problems in there.
And basically, like, I wonder why didn't women kind of like, see
men as some kind of like virus injectors, basically, at that point,
like, it was it was crazy, weird.
And like, I don't think that it's like a conscious decision.
It's like the automation, the urge.
If you want to reproduce that is hard coded in us that kind of like
overcomes even the conscious side of like, this does not make sense.
It has huge risks.
They still go ahead and do it.
And they say they want to do it because I think that it's the automation
side, because cognitively, like, if you think about it, it's just.
Makes no sense.
It overcomes even your self preservation, like, you know, urge.
You don't want to go ahead and take such a big risk for yourself and, like,
put out the watermelon out of there.
It's not the shape of a watermelon, just so you know, it comes out.
yeah.
Okay, thanks for clarifying.
Still, it's a good metaphor, like, and, that sort of depends on your point of
view as well, it is, not having kids.
Means that you're, you're the end of your bloodline.
Like that's, so it is existentially finished when you go.
And you can say, yeah, but I don't care because I'll be dead and I won't care
about, I won't give a fuck about shit when I'm dead, like, uh, but still,
there is an existential, like I said, the existential baton, uh, that's, that's
one Way to rationalize it, I guess.
Uh, I mean, because if you think that life is more suffering than enjoyment,
why not just go jump off a bridge tomorrow, like, and some people do!
Uh, But I think there's definitely something to, you know, this, the,
the family unit became a family unit for a reason, because that was how
you survived, especially when women started to get pregnant around 17 or
18 years of age, and then they produced kids until they were 50, like, uh.
It's not that way anymore, and I've heard a lot of ideas about how, you know, these
second and third order effects of the pill and what it has done to us, because in
a way, like, modern women are the first cyborgs that are really, that we've really
changed biologically, uh, at their core of what they, what they used to be and what
they are now, they're a different thing, and yeah, I think there's, those downsides
to that are not talked about enough,
something here, I think the other side to this here, uh, it's a little
bit fun when something like this happens, when I get to say these words.
I disagree with Knut here.
And, and, uh, it's, it's, it's fun because I've, I've started to, uh,
explore some ideas off campus, off the Freedom Footprint show campus, uh,
especially these days I'm doing, I'm doing a series on Jordan Peterson's Maps
of Meaning on, uh, Robert Breedlove's show, uh, and, and we, we, we actually
did a rip last night, and so this stuff is kind of fresh in my mind.
The, I, I think kids do give.
Meaning inherently to people.
It's just not in this, in this tangible sense, I suppose, but it
really does hit the programming.
And so I think we're maybe coming at this from different sides here and eventually
saying the same thing, but the cognitive layers that we're talking about is sort
of built up in this layered substrate.
We as individuals.
are the product of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of years of evolution.
Let's just cap it at when we've been homo sapiens, maybe a couple hundred
thousand years, something like that.
And everything that has come up to that point in terms of behavior, in terms of
the, the stories that we've told along the way to, to, to pass lessons down.
Those are all.
Substrates of our personalities.
All three of us have, to a certain extent, the Judeo Christian philosophy
underpinning us, again, to a certain extent, but we, all three of us also have
different, different backgrounds before our ancestors became Christianized,
for example, just to, just to make that point, but we've got the Judeo
Christian, the Western humanist, and, perspective from being men from, from
Europe or from Europe adjacent countries.
And then there are more things that individuate us, right?
But the lower level programming in terms of everything that goes on
under the hood, that's pretty much shared, universal human shared.
And I think that the reproduction is, is part of this.
And it, in a lot of ways, it's, it's I think having kids is always difficult,
right, because there's a lot of responsibility to it, at least if you're
taking it seriously, which I think you should, but over time, the responsibility
becomes too much to bear without something like that, where it's, where it's, it
just becomes the, the right thing to do.
Cross to bear, for lack of a better metaphor on top of my head.
It's, you take yourself to a certain life status, right?
And then having kids becomes the next natural outlet for that.
Because I think there's another case where you have people who just, who just have
kids, get in a relationship, have kids and, uh, oops, make a mistake and they
don't go into it intentionally and that's a completely different story, right?
That's, that's probably what The majority of, of humanity was
like for a very long time, right?
Intentionally going into it with the idea of having kids and, and, yeah,
going on to the next generation, I think that is absolutely meaningful
in and of itself in the, in the sense of that you're going to channel your
energy directly into a new person.
And maybe there's some, there's a, an aspect of trying to reduce some past
mistakes, uh, trying to, help them have a better life than, than you
had, a better start of it, and, and then we get into that there are these
psychological fallacies of the, the, Great men create good times, which
creates bad men, which creates bad times, kind of thing, the generational
cycle where if you get too good of a start in life, maybe you're not going
to necessarily achieve much of anything, which, yeah, is sort of difficult to
grapple with as a new parent, but not like I'm giving my kid a good start.
Um, Yeah, the, the, the most, uh, luxurious upbringing, so
to say, but, you know, not bad.
This is rambling a little bit, but I, I think the, the, the point is that
we've got this deep programming and this deep cultural substrate that.
Is there, it's just not something that is scientifically extractable, exactly.
This isn't something empirical, it's just, it's just a substrate of things that, that
have, have built upon us as, as humans.
And I, I think having kids and, and, uh, going along with that, it's, we've been
telling stories about it's, The importance of having kids and moving on into the next
generation for probably as long as humans have existed, and that's built in, and we
are programmed to get meaning from that.
So I think this is sort of saying the same thing a little bit from a
different perspective, but I think we get meaning from it because
it's been with us for so long.
Yeah, just a disclaimer here, Luke, uh, before we get into the rest of
the conversation, and that is that, like, I don't claim opinions on
this, so, so, like, I flesh out these different theories that people have,
but, yeah, just to say, I definitely went into getting kids deliberately.
I did.
I don't think it was as deliberate on my wife's part, I think it was more
of an oops moment for her, definitely more oopsie than it was for me.
Because for me it was planned.
So that's, that's the thing, guys.
So, like, I really appreciate, you know, like, people being able to tell
honestly about, or like, talk honestly about these things, because I do also
understand, you know, the biases that we have, uh, to kind of like, you know,
to defend the actions that we have made, um, and well, okay, this might sound a
bit harsh and like, you know, this might be offensive for some people, but like,
I'm not comparing dogs and kids, but I'm just saying that, Like, I had a dog, um,
for like 10 years, and I mean, it came true because, like, the girlfriend that I
had back then, she wanted to have a dog.
We got it, but like, after a few years, we separated, and the dog was basically
like, Well, I took care of the dog, uh, for the last six, seven years.
And the thing is, it always prevented me from like traveling quite as much as
I would want to, like it did basically restrict me from doing things, but when
I had the dog, I kind of like very well explained to myself how this is worth it,
and this is okay, and this is what I want.
I want to stay with the dog, like, you know, or like, you know,
take care of it or, or whatever.
That's what I feel like, you know, when we actually have.
That thing to take care of, we have this bias where we need to go ahead and
explain that that was still worth it.
But now that my dog died, like, you know, six months ago, I honestly, like,
I cannot say that I would do anything differently because I don't know any
of the other options or, or anything.
Uh, and it was really awesome time, um, to know, you know, grow, grow a
dog as a single guy, uh, and all that.
I've also exactly kind of like noticed that.
Now I have more of the original freedom that I actually really, really wanted,
and I kind of explained to myself, like, not doing a lot of things because of the
dog, but I was like, able to kind of like, explain to myself why that is still okay.
Now, I know that I would not take another dog.
I would not take or make the same decision.
I cannot say that I would revert the old one.
But at least, cognitively, when I'm awake, when I don't, when I have an option to
get a dog, or not get a dog, when I have an option to get a girl, or get a kid,
or don't, like, I think that's when I can actually think most, like, you know,
with unbiased, or like, with least of the biases, I can, I can think straight.
Whenever I have already one of those things, it's really hard to go back.
So what I'm trying to say also is that people should be careful and not
kind of like panic for the feeling of being lonely or you know, like
try to try to just run after, you know, like all of these emotions,
like wanting to have sex or whatever.
Like people should kind of accept that these are just emotions.
You might want to go with them, but you might also be doing the biggest mistakes
of your life if you're not really thinking with your head, but just with your dick.
Yeah.
I think an aspect of this that we haven't talked about is, is, like, This is my
subjective experience, but before I had kids, like, I didn't have kids until
quite late in life, like, I was 35 when I had my first kid, and before that,
I was bored, and I had long periods of time where I wasn't doing stuff.
That never happens anymore.
So, like, even though I have less time on my hands, I literally have way fewer hours
per day that I decide whatever I want to do and then do that, like, uninterrupted.
Those Moments are much more precious to me now, so I value them more, and
therefore I get more shit done, even though I have less time to do shit.
Because I think there's a, there's a thing there, because, like, uh, having
a kid and being in that situation, like, the dog is, you are comparing a dog
to a kid, you understand that, right?
But, but, like, it's not the same thing, but it, it alludes to what A life with
a kid is, like, you have to take care of the kid a lot more than you have to
take care of the dog, just, uh, heads up.
Uh, well, yeah, maybe, maybe it's hard to realize how scarce a human time
is, and how short a human lifetime is.
Uh, before you have a kid, like, uh, it's, uh, it's a real reminder
that, uh, life is not a rehearsal go.
Like, do you have one shot at this?
And also, like, you know, whatever makes people happy.
I think that's okay.
But I also feel like there's a great, or like, at least to me,
how I see exactly like Einstein and Tesla or people like that.
And what I kind of would want to exactly put out right now, like, you know, for
all the listeners is basically that, like, if you think that you are really
like a smart or like, you know, as an As productive or like, you know, as
meaningful of a person as someone like, you know, Einstein or Nikolai Tesla, I
kind of like, you know, I kind of would hope that those persons would actually
just focus on work and I feel bad for them because they might not get all of that
happiness that family and kids bring them.
But I really like, you know, tip my hat for those guys who are, you know,
also kind of resisting the urge and kind of like, you know, being able to.
To stand the suffering, like, you know, the loneliness or whatever, and, you know,
like, just doing these greater things, uh, you know, that actually produces
or pushes, like, humanity forward.
Of course, family people can definitely do a lot of those, but I'm just saying, like,
it would have been a real shame if, you know, Einstein or these kind of guys would
have been stuck, you know, playing house.
We would have lost or like, you know, a lot of good ideas.
do you think his lack of a sex drive has something to do with his name?
Uh, yeah, it could be, it could be.
Yeah.
I
Uh, uh, I don't, I don't know much about the sex life of Einstein, uh, but,
I heard something like, you know, I mean, they did have apparently
kids, but they kind of like abandoned the girl and the kid exactly to be
able to just focus on their work.
And of course they probably got a lot of shit from it.
And also Nikolai Tesla, for example, like he was, he was apparently like.
According to himself, married to a pigeon.
So, I mean, these are not, let's say the most sane guys, but what
I'm saying is that I appreciate them willing to go into a total craziness to
produce something great for humanity,
Yeah, but there, there are examples of, uh Like, uh, Luke Dasher for,
for instance, in, in Bitcoin.
He has eight kids and he does great things all of the time.
Like , like,
just imagine how much time or like how much more productive Luke would
be if he would not have to take care of any of those eight kids.
you don't know that.
You don't know that he might have been, you know, a method on the street if he
hadn't had those eight kids, you know, uh, like, yeah, apologies to Luke in
advance here, but, uh, , it's just a name that came on top of my head because
of the eight kids, but, uh, you know.
Or, uh, or Jimmy Song.
He has seven kids, right?
Uh, um, or, or something.
They have a ton of kids, and they seem to be very productive.
Despite, or maybe because of the kids, who knows?
Yep.
By the way, what do you guys think of, like, you know, when people are saying
that the point of life would be to exactly like, you know, like have kids,
like, what is then the number of kids that you would want to have optimally?
Like, because that's always something that has wondered to me, like, is it just one?
If you want to, you know, like, store your gene, basically, like, the more the
merrier, then again, like, previously, it wasn't possible to just go ahead
and create, like, thousands of kids.
Or maybe like Genghis Khan or someone else actually did that.
I don't remember how many did he have.
The point is now it is possible.
You can actually create like, you know, in a weird like lab
or like, you know, a test tube.
You can clone yourself as many kids as you can afford to.
So is now the actual, like, the goal basically to create as many kids as
you can afford to raise reasonably?
Or, or like, is it just passing the genes?
You know, like, what's your thoughts on this?
I, I think even if you're Elon Musk, you wouldn't afford to be Genghis Khan.
Because that's like 25 percent of the Mongolian population has, you know,
connections to the genes of Genghis Khan.
So like.
Being a total asshole and pillaging and raping for your entire life and
raping as much as possible is a very effective method if you want your genes
to pass on to the next generation.
Like, of course it is.
We're clipping that.
And we're clipping that.
Yes.
Why not?
Great advice from Knut.
Well, it's not advice, it's an observation, uh, but I'm coming to the
point that, uh, I don't think that's necessarily a good life choice, though,
even though it does secure your, your gene, your bloodline for a long time.
I think, like, why, why do people have to have, uh finding meaning in life,
uh, what, what do you even answer?
Like, is there a meaning?
Is there not a meaning?
Well, sometimes it feels like there's meaning, but some things
feel meaningful and others less so.
But, you know, I mean, just reproducing, it's not meaning in itself, is it?
I think just going with the flow and doing whatever feels good is
quite good advice for most people.
Uh, I don't know.
I don't know the meaning of life.
What's the meaning of life, Luke?
Voluntarily taking up the challenge to go into the unknown, tame the chaos, and
bring back the treasure to the community.
Yes, but this is the Freedom Footprint show, not the What is Money show.
Yeah,
Yes.
I know you rehearsed for that and everything, but this is, this is our show.
You'd have to do that with Rob, you know.
I mean, there's a reason I've talked about that book now for like eight
hours or something with Rob and, uh,
But do you buy that?
Do you buy that?
That that's the meaning of your life?
Or everyone's life?
Well, okay, so the thing about that book, the thing about Maps of Meaning
that, that really dug into this for me was, was that it explained how we think
because the, the thing about it is it, the book is dense and, and ridiculously
meandering repetitive, but the, it, it builds upon point upon point and shows.
He shows his work.
That's, that's really the key here.
So what happens is that the, the book builds up from here are the
building blocks of how people think.
There's, there's an aspect of neurological psychology.
There's an aspect of how this stuff works in day to day.
And then the bulk of the book is explanation through stories.
And the thesis of the book is basically that we transmit through stories,
through mythology, mythology basically just being stories that are so deep in
our history that we've lost where they actually came from, but Through these
stories, we tell lessons that match what our psychology and physiology mean.
If you want a fun, we talk for a good 20 30 minutes in one episode about the
meaning of the word meaning, and it's a real circle, Jarek, and it's lots of
fun, but, yeah, but the point is that psychologically, we're, we are conditioned
to want to minimize the chaos of the world around us and put the world into
order in, in the most simple terms.
And so
We as in men?
humanity, but it's, it's, there's biological differences, of course.
Uh, men do end up being sort of the, the default in these, these stories.
Sorry, ladies.
The, the, there are different stories tailored specifically for women, at
least in terms of the, the, the thing to do to, uh, um, well, for, for her to
get her own, uh, form of, of meaning.
The Beauty of the Beast story is the, is the archetypical, the
archetypal story for, for women, at least according to Jordan Peterson.
Yes, we as in men, we as in Humans, something like that.
The bravest thing is to be able to go out into the unknown and bring something back.
That's what millennia of stories are telling us.
And then there are layers to it because it's not a simple,
there's a simple hero story.
Go kill the dragon, rescue the virgin in the castle.
Bring her back and then suddenly everything is good in the kingdom
again because you killed the dragon, something like that.
Very simple, straightforward, but that's not how it maps to reality.
And so there are Other stories, other forms of, of looking at this stuff and,
and the thesis is to just take up the challenge and that's meaning to me is
to find the challenge to take up and go at it wholeheartedly and go at it with
some humility the wisdom of generations before me might have figured some things
out but ultimately there comes the point where you as the individual will.
The individual, I'll emphasize that, has to do something novel and innovative
in that moment, as big or as small as that might be, and that's the impact.
That's the meaning.
And then bring that back, and you can make a good life, life is less psychologically
difficult, putting life into more order, something like that, and the, the coolest
part about it is the, the, the person, the thing you should put at the top of
the hierarchy, the, the thing that you should put at the top of the hierarchy is
the, the hero that pays attention That's what, what for millennia is the message.
The hero that is able to pay attention, figure out the world, and figure out the
things that are plaguing the society.
That's the person that should be put at the top of the hierarchy
because they know what they're doing.
They're the most competent.
Competence.
The, the book maps on perfectly with praxeology, with everything that's
going on in the Bitcoin community.
I love it.
And it's, it's why it's the most It's the most influential book for me, and
why I am talking about it with Rob, why I'd encourage people to watch Jordan
Peterson's lectures on the topic, if reading the book in its whole 500 page
density isn't the most enjoyable thing, I got something out of it, and that's it.
That's the meaning I got out of it was to take up the challenge and I went from a
nihilistic early 20 something that had no idea what to do with myself to yeah, now,
now I've got purpose and I'm well on my way to fulfilling the story of my life.
Got a kid, it's pretty cool.
I don't think any of that would have happened if I hadn't found
this book and figured out how to do something with myself without
finding religion, by the way.
So that's also cool.
That is a beautiful rant, Luke.
You put a tear to my eye.
And, uh, the story is very similar to mine.
It's just that I've never, like, uh, well, never is a strong word.
I guess I, you know, every person sees themselves as the protagonist
of their, the movie of their story.
So you try to, if you try to emulate the hero's journey thing, I think
we all do that to some extent.
And to me, the, the like, uh, there's the call to adventure when you
find Bitcoin and there's the, the real adventure when you, uh, you're
supposed to run into trouble also.
And I guess, you know, getting fed up with my old job was getting into trouble
and seeing inflation, you know, outpacing an eventual raise in salary and then
just jumping off the cliff and, uh, fuck this, I'm doing something else instead.
I guess that's like the, the hero's journey part of at least the latter.
Stages of my life.
I don't think people have one hero's journey.
I think they have many during a lifetime, or at least can.
So what's your story, Rafa, there?
Like, have you found the meaning of your life?
Are you living in a hero's journey type thing, you think?
mean, kind of, yeah, I do think I have like a good meaning for life.
It's just that I kind of question it and I feel like things are way too easy.
Uh, like, you know, like, let's say like this, I had this thought in my
mind, like, let's say 10 years ago, that would be like really awesome to just,
you know, like work on Bitcoin things and not really have to have, you know,
a fiat job or, or things like that.
Well, I, I got that.
Then I also realized when I like, you know, got a little bit deeper
into Bitcoin stuff that I really want to, you know, focus on doing
something really, really meaningful.
Or I mean, that's what I had like always since the child, like as a,
like when I was a kid, like I wanted to do something actually meaningful, not
something just a random, you know, like a basic fiat job or something like that.
And I, I feel like working on Bitcoin and especially like
working on Bitcoin privacy.
is probably one of the most urgent things that we should be working on
because, I mean, even though there's a lot of very cool technology, a lot
of like, you know, biohacking or like AI or like, you know, a lot of these
cool things are out there, but I feel like if we don't fix the money first.
All of these other cool, you know, things or technologies will just be like
corrupted through government or like, you know, like we have a shitty money,
uh, like at least, you know, the fiat, and we're trying to make a better one.
Bitcoin is the best option, but it also has this like
huge problem with its privacy.
Like, if we would not improve Bitcoin privacy, or if these privacy
tools would not get adoption.
I feel like, you know, even Bitcoin would just become basically the biggest global
financial surveillance system ever.
Like, it is, it is much, much worse than any CBDC out there
that people are talking about.
Like, this is not just, you know, like governments being able to see exactly
how much you own and how do you transact.
They might not be able to stop it, but they will penalize you if they
can see exactly what's going on.
Now, with CBDCs, at least your neighbor is not able to watch you or, you know,
like know exactly what you're doing.
With Bitcoin, if we don't improve its privacy, we are really, really screwed.
So, in that sense, I do find a lot of meaning working on, on
this space and these things.
Uh, but I feel like it's also, it's too easy, like, in the sense that,
uh, maybe I just have these like, you know, weird old stories and movies
kind of like imprinted into my mind.
Like, for example, you know, the movie Troy, uh, and like
the story about, about Achilles.
Um, like that was a very interesting story where basically like in the
movie itself, like it's, you know, that this character, this Machilis, he had
a total, like, you know, a choice in life to go ahead and, you know, like
have kids, have like, you know, that he would basically be guaranteed to
have, you know, a good wife and a lot of kids who will love them and he will
have a very happy and fulfilling life.
But there was also the other option.
Where he would not go ahead and have any of that like family stuff, but actually
go into like, you know, the Troy war and try to write his name into the history
books for like thousands of years.
I think those kind of goals of like people actually wanting to, you know,
like basically be remembered or do something useful that will be then
remembered for thousands of years.
That's like, you know.
Proper goals, like that's what we should be all looking for, you know, like,
Yeah, but if it's too easy and you're already accomplished, like, building
better Bitcoin privacy tools, uh There's nothing stopping you from
getting the family after you're done with all the heroic stuff, right?
yeah, yeah, sure.
And I mean, I'm not saying that, like, fixing Bitcoin privacy is too easy,
but it's kind of like, it was too easy to find a very meaningful thing to do.
And now I'm kind of like, in a, in a search of like, even bigger meaning.
Even yeah, something more.
So do you think that ever ends?
Even if you find something bigger and more important to work on, whatever
that is, world peace or whatever.
Uh, I guess you could say Bitcoin privacy is world peace, but it takes a while.
But, uh, like, don't you think there's always a bigger fist to catch?
And like, you never get satisfied from just fulfilling I know that,
that's From, from experience, whenever I set up a goal and I achieve
something, I, I want the next thing.
I want to up my game.
Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with you.
Like, want seems to be also like something that is just hard coded in us, because
if we would kind of like, end up not wanting things, it's kind of like,
you know, there is no need for action.
And I think we would kind of like lose the passion or like, you know, to live.
Uh, so I think wants are one of the things that kind of like keeps us going and I
think they will grow up all the time.
But I also have noticed exactly like that setting yourself too low of goals
or goals that you can actually achieve.
It's very, very dangerous, at least, at least for a while, because like,
if you set yourself too easy of goals, and you actually achieve them, you will
be totally like, you know, unhappy, or you will at least be left with no
other plans or no other things to do.
And you kind of have to find new meaning again.
So that's why I feel like, you know, shooting for the stars, like, you
know, what Elon Musk is wanting to do, like, okay, let's go and put people
into Mars, like something this crazy will actually keep him, you know,
like driven for a long, long time.
Like, don't set too easy goals for yourself, basically.
Don't you think that's a problem, though, with, like, the whole internet
generation that has grown up with, you know, it's like the, uh, IDN Fight Club,
that everyone grew up, raised by their mothers and, uh, uh, wanting to be, were
told by the media that they would be rock stars and movie stars and whatnot.
And none of that comes true later in life, so like, what I'm trying to say is that,
uh, isn't it a problem that people can't be, if everyone had the goal of, you know,
building a rocket that takes us to Mars or something, like, no one would be satisfied
with just being a baker, or a garbage man.
Like, don't we need, like, people for everything?
And people taking pride in the, in easy small jobs like,
I mean, I think that all of the jobs are in some sense really important,
and it's good that there is people who are kind of like satisfied.
With that, but it's like, it's just good, basically, from my perspective,
like, I mean, it's, it's might be good for them to like, you know, they might
be happy and then it's totally okay.
But at least, like, to me, it feels a little bit bad to say that I'm
happy that other people are okay with, like, less because it just
seems to be a thing that benefits me.
I kind of feel like, you know, from totally, uh, from totally unbiased
point of view, I kind of feel like we should be endorsing everyone to
be as great as they can and shoot for the stars, like, you know, to try
to do something really meaningful.
I know that that's not something that could actually happen and that
would, you know, result into a lot of chaos in the world, but at least for,
you know, the sovereign individuals, the people who really want to try to
make a big difference in the world.
I think that's just a beautiful thing that they are not like, you know, happy with.
With normal stuff that they are actually pushing for something
like even better and greater.
Yeah.
Which is why it's, why it's so reinvigorating or to go to a Bitcoin
conference and meet all these people that are actually trying to do that.
That's like fantastic.
Like, look at these people.
They, they're not caring what other people tell them they can and cannot do.
They're just, they just do stuff and build a better world.
Uh, yeah, I think it's beautiful.
Yeah, I mean, ambition itself, like, you know, it's always so nice to be able
to like, you know, see in Bitcoin and like, you know, these kind of sovereign
engineering space, for example, they see so much like passionate people who
are not just, you know, looking into like, okay, I want to go ahead and like
build a software that will generate me like a few thousand dollars per month.
And that's it.
Like, That's what I'm looking for.
But there's a lot of people who actually want to go ahead and
like change the whole world.
Like, you know, just like Bitcoiners.
But, you know, it's, it's also talk is cheap.
A lot of people would want to go ahead and say that they want to
go ahead and change the world.
But it exactly requires a lot of commitment.
And it requires a lot of, um, like refraining yourself from doing these
like weird, uh, automated actions that will just basically be time sink traps.
so how do you, how do you focus, like, how do you force yourself to focus
and how do you, like, make the work ethic become a reality, like, some
trips, text, trip, trick, some tips?
Well, at least for me, like one of the best things that, like, it's very
unintuitive, but I really love this idea of like responsibility maximalism.
So, like, basically, for example, how I see things in my life is that everything
that happens is totally my fault.
Like, I mean, not completely always, and I don't blame myself for some of
the things that are happening, like, I just practically kind of control
things, but the point is that I don't blame anything that happens,
especially like negative things.
I do not blame them on others.
If there is, you know, like after something bad happens, I always
kind of think about it myself, like, could I have done something better?
Could I have, like, let's say, if it's like another person not
showing up at the right time, like, could I have informed him better?
Could I have, like, you know, sent another message, reminder,
like, could I have done better?
And usually their answer is yes.
So blaming the other person is kind of just a way to push the responsibility out
of yourself and that's, that's kind of like, you know, if you start blaming other
things for, or like other people, or, you know, for all of the negative things that
happen in your life, you will never really want to go ahead and like, think about
how to fix them, how to improve yourself.
So taking full responsibility of all of your actions, I feel like that's
one of the most important things that at least I have learned, and like,
that's how that has made me to really carefully consider in what kind of
a game do I want to put myself into.
Like, what kind of, like, do I even want to start, for example, like, this
possible relationship, like, you know, chess match, uh, you know, like, and
I, I try to exactly like, you know, think of my actions before I do them
because of this responsibility idea.
I think that's a, that's a good one.
And in general, like, of course, prioritization.
So, like I said, there's a lot of very cool things.
But like, you have to kind of go through really brutally, you know, like, write
them down, like, what are the really the biggest or the most important things?
Like, you know, there's, there's what is important.
And then there's the thing of like, what is urgent?
And like the, you know, there's a lot and a lot of important things.
But there's, like, the urgency is kind of like the higher priority, like, we should
look into, like, you know, what is the immediate action that we first have to fix
in order to be able to fix the rest of it.
And like I said, I feel like it's, you know, money, but this same
idea of like how to prioritize, I think, can be used in like companies
and in any other projects too.
It's beautiful, because it's sort of the opposite of victimhood culture,
like, you're doing the exact opposite of these virtue signaling victims.
where the game becomes who we should pity the most, and
Yeah.
one who gets the reward.
Well, yeah.
Uh, way, way sounder way to live life, I think.
Yep.
And maybe, maybe also like one thing that I would also say that kind of helps
a lot is to like, you know, meditate.
And this is also like a very unpopular opinion, but like, you know, there's a
lot of very, very weird and interesting substances, you know, like out there
in the world that we already know that are actually like enhancing our
cognitive capabilities, for example.
So, It's just that we're afraid of the trade offs or, you know, like
the, the possible problems that those might cause, but I mean, I don't want
to endorse it, but I'm just saying like, people should not be afraid
of these kind of things either.
Like, just like, for example, you know, like, uh, back in the, like
hundreds of years ago or thousands of years ago, like sailors.
Like, they had to really have, like, huge fucking cojones to really go
ahead and, like, you know, go with that weird kind of, like, you know,
wooden boat all the way till, you know, towards the infinite sea.
Like, you really had to be a little bit crazy, but also, that's the thing
that was required to actually find something so different, something
new to bring, like, a whole new continent, basically, for humanity.
Like, that required some people to actually take the risk of losing their
mind or their life in order to, you know, be able to explore these areas
that we are not yet daring to explore.
So, yeah, that's also something that I would put on the list.
Yeah, speaking of the list, I saw the, the, the, the last point there is, is
human rights are a joke, which is, uh, yeah, I'd like to pick your brain on
that because I have some ideas myself.
Yeah, I mean, in my opinion, like, we already live in an anarchy.
It's just that most of people are really, really bad at defending themselves.
you know, there is no human rights, like whatever there is, you know, like a
lot of People saying every now and then like, oh, right to privacy or whatever,
like, that's a very fiat concept to do or to even say, you know, there
is no right for basically anything.
It's just especially like right for a privacy, for example, like, to me, these
are just like weird concepts that are kind of like, you know, relying on some
authority actually enforcing these, but it's kind of like impossible if you
don't really like, you know, steal the money out of a lot of people to be able
to fund that kind of a conglomerate.
So, to me, well, yeah, human rights is just something that at least
Bitcoiners should not be, you know, kind of appealing to in arguments.
Well, this is a great topic because, like, um, you can differentiate between
positive rights and negative rights, and positive rights are the ones that,
you know, free housing, free food, whatever, um, healthcare, uh, all
of them require a violation of some other person's negative right, which
is basically the, the only thing you could argue for being a universal human
right that is true for all people at all times is the right to be left alone.
Like, uh, basically the non aggression principle, uh, because
it's the only one that can be true for all people at all times.
And also, arguing against it is arguing against the very act of argumentation.
Because if I argue against you owning your own body, and by
extension your stuff, uh, if, if you try to, uh, Refute that argument.
You have to use your body to do that.
So you show, with your action of arguing, you show me that you
accept that I own my body too.
And that through argumentation, we can't really argue with one another without
accepting the non aggression principle to be the cornerstone of everything.
Because it's implicit in the Implicit in the very act of arguing, and therefore
we can sort of deduct that the only right that can actually be a universal
right is the right to be left alone.
Yeah, I kind of understand that.
But I also, like, I wonder exactly, like, to what extent are we
considering now, like, left alone?
Like what you said, like, you know, for a physical space.
I mean, I kind of totally agree, and I would want that.
But I also feel like, you know, it really depends on, like, what
we classify as being left alone.
Like, you know, like, if it's me looking at another person, like, you know, is that
kind of like me not leaving them alone?
And then it, then it all, like, if it is, you know, like, I cannot really
watch them or look at them or like that they would have the right to,
to build some kind of a wall around themselves, um, would basically just
mean that we need a lot of resources.
And the more people there are, the smaller, the The area basically gets
unless we somehow create more of earth or, you know, find other planets
to populate or something like that.
But I, I agree with you.
Like, I agree with the non aggression principle as not as like a right,
but as something that's, you know, as a agreed code for, let's
say, morally like sane people.
Yeah, I don't think, like, right might be the word, but the word is It's
flawed, but it's still one of the best words we have for it because,
like, I don't think there's a world where everyone lives by this, right?
It's just impossible, because we're always going to have conflict about property,
like, and about land, and everything.
It's just that if you want to be civilized, and if you want to do
things in a civilized way, then that should be the core principle.
And it should, should be more important than everything else.
Free speech, for instance, and freedom of expression, and, like, the things
you said to privacy, they're all, uh, downstream to property rights.
Because if, if there's no such thing as a public space, then Whoever owns
the property gets to set the rules.
If I own, uh, Riverside, or X, or Twitter, I set the rules of who gets to say what on
that platform, because it's my platform.
So, and, and, so therefore, freedom of speech laws are, they're a mirage.
They're, they're Redundant, because like, in order for there to have to
be free speech laws, that implies that there is public space, or something
public, is publicly owned, which has to be preceded by a violation
of the right to be left alone.
You have to take stuff from others.
In order to build a public space, so, so, uh, and I think that's, that's
true for the privacy thing too.
There's a great book about this that Max recommended to me, um, The
Ethics of Liberty by Mario Rothbard.
Uh, highly recommended, yeah, he lays it out very well
where, where to draw the lines.
Yeah, and also there's, uh, I don't know if you guys have heard
about the book, um, Defending the Undefendable by Walter Block.
Oh yeah, yeah, that's on my reading list.
I haven't read it yet, but yep, I need to read that.
There's two versions of it, and you can also, uh, like, listen
to it as an audiobook in YouTube.
Uh, there's all the chapters in there, but they also have, like, a very,
very good, like, arguments over there.
It's basically like, you know, like, Austrian economics based book.
Uh, it's just like It's just basically looking into a lot of these like, you
know, people or groups of people or like, let's say jobs of some people
that are generally considered either by the government or by generally like
people as a negative or a bad thing.
And one of the things is like, you know, over there is like about the peeping Tom.
So like a guy who kind of like, you know, pokes his head around, like, you
know, just lurking and, you know, like trying to, to look for like, you know,
cigarettes or whatever, like, there's a very good defense speech, how the peeping
Tom is not really doing anything wrong.
Like, people have no right to privacy.
Like, if you have your own private property, yeah, do ahead, whatever
you want, but like, there is no right to privacy, you just have
to make sure that you are not heard if you really want privacy.
It's all up to you, full responsibility, no blaming others.
But yeah, there's a lot of very interesting chapters
in there, so definitely that one is also very recommended.
What is it Mille says?
Viva libertad, carajo.
Exactly.
By the way, one more thing that I kind of wanted to mention, maybe over here,
like, you know, the censorship topic and it kind of like related to exactly
like, you know, these rights that people consider that they have or not don't have.
So, like, you know, what, what was really interesting to see now, like,
already now, a few months ago was, you know, the ocean mining, um, and it's
so called, you know, censorship of.
You know, whatever, inscriptions, or even samurai will pull transactions.
That was also pretty hilarious.
You know, what I'm really disappointed is exactly like people not using the
word censorship in any coherent way, or at least according to my knowledge.
So, like, to me, like, at least according to Austrian economics, you can do
with your property, whatever you want.
And if you don't want to go ahead and like, for example, let everyone use
your server to, to communicate, or you don't want, you know, to include all of
the weird shitcoin stuff into your own nodes, like, you know, uh, SSD, you don't
need to, it's your private property, and calling that censorship is just, um.
Immensely like weird to me or like very naive.
It's vulgar.
I mean, if there is these, you know, like rights, the right for you to
choose who do you do business with or whose data are you storing?
Or like, who do you want to even communicate with?
It is much, much higher.
Then some weird like social, you know, virtue signaling of like,
Oh, we have to accept everyone.
And, you know, like all data is like equal, like bullshit.
This is so stupid and like naive from Bitcoiners to even say that, like,
at least in my understanding, only like governments can censor things.
Like, only governments have basically promised, like, other people some
services, and they have taken the money and kind of, like, said that, okay,
these will be available for you, but then the government might go ahead and, you
know, like, start restricting things.
That's what I call, like, censorship.
Everything else is just private individuals choosing
who they do business with.
I wouldn't say only governments, I would say all criminals,
and not only governments.
But every criminal institution, consensor.
Like, because it requires force.
That's, that's key.
Well, but I think like, for example, like Twitter, like it's a private company and
for example, if they want to go ahead and kick someone out of their platform, even
though I might not like it, I think the right of them to be able to choose who
they serve or who they do business with, whose data are they storing, I think it's
even higher than kind of like, you know, just my opinion for that specific person.
Like I cannot.
I cannot explain it to myself, like, why would, let's say, Twitter
have to go ahead and, like, serve people who they don't want to.
So, my point was basically just that, you know, that ocean mining, in my opinion,
is not really, like, censoring anything.
Absolutely not.
The
yeah, like, they are, like, we can call it, let's say, filtering or
whatever, and that's totally okay.
They are not forced by the government to do it.
So I would not call it censorship.
tricky thing, though, with Twitter, for instance, is when, whatever
decisions the, the government makes about Twitter, like how much taxes
Elon needs to pay or something, and then by proxy force, force him to, uh,
to throw someone off of Twitter, then it is censorship, like, because these
things do get kept, uh, captivated by government institutions, uh, very often,
and especially if they get too big.
So that's the thing, I think that's the core of the problem, that there
will always be criminals who will use force to force people to do stuff.
That's why we have the problems.
Yep.
And that's the thing.
I also would like to kind of, you know, like be careful of like with the,
uh, with the exact wording of like, let's say that if the government is
pressuring Twitter to kick someone out, I think the government is censoring.
Twitter has basically the, the option of like, you know, just shutting their whole
business down because they don't want to kick one guy out of it, or, you know, like
they don't want to obey the government or something like that, but it's totally
understandable that they probably will just go ahead and then kick out this
one guy because they are pressured to do so, but I think it would still, I would
call it that it's Twitter's personal decision, uh, to do so, even, but they
are heavily, like, pressured to censor.
But they are not, like, they are not censoring, they are just choosing
who they serve or what they do.
Uh, it's the government that censors.
And this is so bad because everything is intertwined with government action,
like every person's every decision is colored by the fact that we have
governments meddling with people's lives.
Alright, so, yeah, I had a random thought this morning about this.
Is, is, um, is God the ultimate central planner and interventionist?
I think that's a good question for you.
I mean, I think it just depends on, like, what do we think as God, because,
like, Like to me, the idea of like having one creator is just something
that doesn't compute in my head because like, even like, you know, especially all
Bitcoiners, like we have heard of the, like the concept of division of labor
and the whole idea that, you know, it's just one thing or one creature that has
created everything instead of like, you know, a group or, you know, multiple of
gods or whatever we want to call them.
I think.
Yeah.
Yeah, the having multiple things involved in the whole creation is more likely,
but like, is it like, centrally planned?
Yeah.
I mean, that's a very good question.
I
there's, as far as I understand, there are two religious camps
when it comes to creators.
And there's one that says that, uh, oh, God just did stuff before the
Big Bang and set all the parameters.
And then there's the other group that thinks that they can pray
and stuff, and God can intervene.
So either he's a great central planner, or an interventionist.
And why any of those two would be a good thing, I have a hard time understanding.
mean, I really love the, you know, was it Epicurean, Dilemma, but
something like that, you know, like, have you heard of the Epicurean,
um, like thing regarding God?
So it's basically like asking, like, is God all powerful?
And if it's the world is like, if the word is yes, uh, then there is, you
know, like something like the question of like, okay, well, then why there is
evil and like, why can't God basically like, you know, just destroy the evil
or was he aware that there's like, you know, did he create the Satan?
And if, if yes, why, like.
And, like, if, like, is Sata more powerful than God, and if not, couldn't
God just go ahead and get rid of it?
And, you know, like, if you, like, there's, there's a very good kind of,
like, you know, train of thought, I can just try to find it quickly over here.
I think I heard that one.
It's like, uh A flowchart or something, right?
Yeah, it's, yeah, exactly, flowchart, and it's, uh, Epicurean paradox.
So how the idea of an all knowing creature just does not make sense
at all, like, it defies all logic.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
So evil exists.
Yes.
So can God prevent evil?
If no, then God is not all powerful.
If yes, does God know about all the evil?
If no, then God is not all knowing.
If yes, does the God want to prevent evil?
If no, then God is not good, and he is not loving.
But if he wants to prevent evil, then why is there some evil?
yeah, so the answers could be like, you know, to test us, but if God
is all knowing, he should know what we would do if we were tested.
Therefore, there is no need to test us.
yeah, you know, there's this, like, very interesting flowchart exactly about, like,
how a single all knowing thing Probably, like, you know, not the likeliest,
No, it's, it's basically, it's basically about cognitive dissonance.
And, uh, you know, back to thinking fast and slow again
and why our brains are flawed.
yep.
And we want to have that weird piece, just like with relationships, like,
you know, it's, it's just that we feel so bad when there's a void.
When there's, when you don't know, and you know, like, when you, when you're alone.
That's, that is really kind of depressing, and like, it's a big pressure.
But trying to come up with like crazy stories just to, you know, come up
with a patch to make yourself like a little bit happier, I mean, sure, if
it helps you go ahead, but just like I think I said it in a previous episode
of ours, like, you know, Bitcoiners seem to know that People don't need
laws, uh, to make them act properly.
Like, you know, the responsible people will know how to act properly.
The same thing goes with, like, all of these weird God stories.
Like, if you are moral, like, you will be moral anyway.
You don't need to hear, like, weird stories about, like, you
know, random bearded guys splitting oceans and multiplying fish
and bread and shit like that.
There's a great Kurzgesagt video called Optimistic Nihilism about this, that there
is a, like, making a case for a, um, a worldview which accepts that, you know, in
four billion years the sun will eat us all and we're probably never getting out of
here and that everything is pointless, but that might not necessarily be a bad thing.
It, in fact, it might be what gives a lifetime its value,
that there is no meaning.
You can make it yourself and you can.
Since it's scarce, you have a scarce amount of, a finite amount of time,
that's what makes it valuable.
And I like that.
Uh, hey, so, so, um, yeah, we've dug into a whole bunch of topics, uh, I think I
could either just toss it back to you, any last thoughts, or maybe, maybe just to get
in a little bit of practical conversation.
What's, what's going on at Wasabi ZK Snacks these days?
So, uh, there's a lot of things going on.
So you guys have, might probably heard already that, uh, well, like two of
our original founders, so Nopara and Balint, uh, they both now left the
project, uh, to work on other things.
Uh, well, they're also getting, you know, like increasing the family
size and, you know, things like that.
So.
Uh, they're taking their time off and well, basically now the
project seems to be moving into a bit of different directions.
So instead of just trying to make a very newbie friendly wallet, uh, that is
very easy by default, uh, like now we're kind of like moving into more of this.
Like, let's have an easy default, but we also have to have the optional insight
and the control options for the users.
So we want to be able to kind of actually show what does, what was, like, wabi
sabi, allow users to do, what is going on in their coin joints and everything, and
for even them to be able to tweak things.
This is, of course, like, you know, uh, there's a risk to it.
So one of the biggest feedbacks that we got with 1.
0 was exactly that, even though we warned people for not doing the bad actions or
stupid actions, They did them anyway, and people then blamed Wasabi for, you know,
like, not, like, restricting the user from not doing, you know, stupid things.
Well, we now restricted it, but I don't think that's the best way to go.
I think, well, Bitcoiners should be responsible.
They should, and they Like, they should know how things are working, more or less.
They should do their research.
They should be able to, like, you know, learn how UTXO model works and how do you
actually get some privacy in mainchain.
It's, it should not be just like a black box and you just trust it.
So yeah, we're taking that risk again, and I'm kind of pretty
happy with the direction.
So there's going to be, you know, like, we're going to be working on,
like, making payments in CoinJoin now in the probably near future.
So it's not really like a big privacy improvement, but it's definitely
like an efficiency improvement.
Well, I mean, we also actually do have like a re a release coming up probably
now inside a week or something, which is basically like a, a half a year
of work that we have put out there.
Uh, we have not made, you know, like a, a proper release now for half a
year other than the buy anything button that was kind of like a, just a totally
separate, uh, you know, thing that we added in and put out this version, this.
Upcoming 2.
0.
6, it will have a huge amount of performance improvements,
new RPC calls, yeah, all kind of really good, good things.
But yeah, and especially like, you know, well, I would say that, you know,
keep an eye on the next few releases.
There's going to be a lot of very cool stuff.
Cool, great to hear.
Yeah, the buy anything, that's the collaboration with Shopinbit, right?
Yes, yes.
So we basically.
I wanted to allow, uh, users who are worried that they don't want to go
ahead and coinjoin because they don't know if their exchanges will give them
problems, like troubles for having some private or coinjoined coin.
So, what we wanted to do instead is So basically, you know, cut
off that fiat exchange, like, you know, off ramp, we don't need that.
Like, let's actually endorse, you know, circular Bitcoin economy.
Let's allow people to buy basically anything legal, um,
like with their private Bitcoin.
In the most private possible way.
So, like, you know, like, we do still have, like, all of the communication that
you, uh, like, you know, have with the concierge through the buy anything button
that will all go through TOR and it's only between, like, uh, the client and
the shopping bit, like, for example, TK Snacks, Doesn't know anything about it,
but it's none of their business anyway.
This will basically allow you to talk with a concierge with Tor on by default.
So you don't have to worry about like your IP addresses also
leaking into the wrong place.
And I mean, we cannot teleport you stuff.
Like, that's something that we haven't yet figured out, so we, like, you know,
of course, the concierge service will need some kind of an address where to
send and shift the stuff, but the good parts of it is also that, like, let's say
you have, you know, like, 10 different items all over the world from different
countries, different vendors that you are interested in buying, instead of you
having to go ahead and, like, actually negotiate them with them yourself to
be able to buy in Bitcoin, Bitcoin.
And then you have to send all of the 10 different people all of your, like,
you know, uh, mailing information.
Now, you can just go ahead and basically send it to, uh, through
this concierge service in Wasabi.
And you send it to one person who will then go ahead and order everything
you need from all of these different places all over the world, and they
will not use your shipping address.
They will, like, the shopping bit will be basically ordering all of the stuff
that you want to their warehouse, where they can also go ahead and
repackage it, uh, to make sure that the packages are actually private.
And then they will only ship it to you, so there is no need to share your
address or, you know, like any of that stuff with a lot of different merchants.
So it's a, it's a very cool kind of like, you know, a virtual assistant
that can get you a lot of stuff.
Of course, like there's a huge demand for it, so now it's like restricted that I
think the order should be like in total above 1, 000 or something like that.
But there seems to be definitely like a lot of demand for, for these
kind of like Bitcoin services.
Cool.
So, yeah, we'll keep an eye out for the updates for sure, and you'll have to DM
me whenever you figure out teleportation.
Uh, and how to do that.
Yeah.
We'll do, we'll do.
Two weeks.
All right.
Hey, Rafe, this has been fantastic.
Always great to have you on.
And, uh, now I, I, I think, I think we're, we're wrapping up.
So, uh, can you just, uh, tell our listeners where they can find you
and, uh, Wasabi and, uh, anything else you'd like to mention here at the end?
Well, like I said, it doesn't really matter who I am.
So forget about that.
Just go ahead and check out Wasabi, buy Bitcoin and eat some shrooms.
That's basically all that I want to say.
All right.
Well, uh, we'll Get working on all all three as soon as possible, Luke, won't we?
Absolutely.
And, uh, I think the only add ons are like, subscribe and
brush your teeth, right Knut?
Absolutely.
And ring the damn bell.
Take care folks
All right, this has been the Freedom Footprint Show, thanks for listening.