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I wanted to share with those people that were like myself, that were in the

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altcoin space of why Bitcoin matters.

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I haven't read a lot of books that talk about the Altcoin space.

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. And so the book Chronicles Here's what.

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Is interesting about the coin space, but here's ultimately why that stuff fails,

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or why that stuff falls on its face.

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one of the biggest strokes of genius I think Mateo had when he was creating

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the app was creating a paywall.

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I would've never done that cause I would've thought, wow,

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we're creating a social network.

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We need as many users as possible because then that will make more users come in.

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Mateo from the very beginning, had this approach of quality over quantity.

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and that's just so in line with the Bitcoin ethos.

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It's like, I, I don't care if I have a million connections or not.

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I want a few really high quality, high signal connections.

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but guess what?

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When that happens, when you, when you create a few high quality connections,

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People see that and they wanna be a part of that, and it actually grows and grows.

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And so we're seeing a pretty nice little, uh, streak of growth right now because

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people are connecting through the app.

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Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint Show a Bitcoin philosophy show with Knut

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Svanholm and me Luke, the Pseudo Finn.

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Today we're joined by Brian De Mint, author of Bitcoin Evangelism and Chief

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Marketing Officer at Orange Bill App.

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In today's episode, we dig more into how Orange Bill app is connecting

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Bitcoiners around the world.

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We discuss Bitcoin's marketing problem and we hear about how Brian

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is spreading the Bitcoin message to no coins and alt pointers through

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his book Bitcoin Evangelism.

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Before we dive in, we'd like to quickly remind you that the best way

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to support the show is to send us a boost or a stream us some SATs.

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Using a Value for Value podcasting app such as Fountain.

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If you haven't already, you can earn STAs from listening to podcasts

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If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like, subscribe to the

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channel and turn on notifications so you never miss a weekly episode.

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And finally, we want to thank today's sponsors Wasabi Wallet, orange

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pill App, and Bitcoin Book Shop.

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All their information is in the description.

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We'll be talking a little bit more about them later.

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And now, without further ado, here's Brian Dement on the Freedom Footprint Show.

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Okay.

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Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint Show.

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Brian, welcome.

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Thanks for joining us.

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Well, thank you guys for having me.

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I'm excited.

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This is, uh, long waited.

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I've, I've honestly, been excited about this one for a long time.

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We, we get to do a lot with the, with the book tour and stuff, but, uh,

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there's, there's certain shows that you just, you know, certain people you

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look forward to hanging out with and, uh, you and I have gotten to do, uh,

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you know, we, we did, uh, a a a spaces or a live broadcast for something else.

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But yeah, looking forward to kind of being a little bit more focused attention today.

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Yeah, that was a bigger, bigger group last time, so,

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Yeah, we've done a bunch of spaces together at this point, right?

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Yeah.

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Um, oh, the OPA spaces where you're, you, you usually host the orange pill,

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Twitter spaces and it's always good fun to be in those, uh, I don't know how you

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manage to find all those nice guests.

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I mean,

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you know what, it's, it's been, it's been nice because orange pill hops starting to

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get a little bit of its own reputation.

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And so I found that, uh, as long as I don't reach out to them as myself, they

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don't, they don't care when I reach out who on orange pill App reaches out.

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They think that, that's interesting cuz I, yeah, there's just, I think

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plenty of people have been sharing their experiences about meeting

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people on the orange pill app.

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There was a, there was a couple that had a, had a meetup the other night

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and so it's, I think people are hearing these organic stories about

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orange pill app and it's, it's kind of trickling up to, uh, you know, all

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sorts of different Bitcoiners and so people are fascinated by what's going

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on and that just gives us access to.

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Plenty of interesting people.

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Yeah.

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Um, and, uh, the, that, that's sort of what you do too.

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Like, uh, Luke, you, you, uh, reach out to people as the Freedom Footprint show

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and not as the Canadian Finn, I guess.

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Well, at least I can

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say I'm, you know, the co-host and producer of, of commute stunt homes.

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Well, it always helps when I name drop, but, uh, yeah, yeah,

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yeah.

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A nice, healthy name drop every once in a while.

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Never hurt anybody.

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Yeah, commute's a pretty good name

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drop.

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Definitely.

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But Brian, can you, can you give us just like a, an intro on you, a tldr or like,

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we like to say here an R on yourself?

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An R I'll give you the R um, the, uh, yeah, so the tl I don't

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think I've ever done anything.

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It's tldr it's always, I always give the, the, it's gonna be too long.

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You're not gonna wanna read this.

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So, um, but anyways, yeah, I, I, I've been in the, the bitcoin space.

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I don't know, that's such a weird thing to say.

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Um, but for about.

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10 years, I think 2013 I started studying it.

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I, so I've been an entrepreneur since 2008 and, uh, there was these entrepreneurs

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guys that I looked up to that were, tend to bought a little bit of Bitcoin.

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And so I started studying Bitcoin, honestly, as a skeptic, trying to

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tell them why they were idiots.

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It's like, I, I really respect you guys, but uh, why are you

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guys buying this funny money?

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Um, and so of course when you peel that onion back, And if you,

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truthfully, and, uh, you know, if you're rationally looking at these

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things, it tends to be very eye-opening.

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I'd never asked the question, what is money?

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I had never asked the question of how does our system work?

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How is currency created?

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I mean, you just, again, we've, we've all been through that process and that was

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how that process unfolded for me, was kind of coming at it from a skeptical lens.

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Um, so then, you know, there, you know, a little shortly after started

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buying Bitcoin, um, I wish somebody had told me about dollar cost averaging.

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I was pretty broke at the time cuz all my money was, was, was

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sunk into building my business.

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And so, uh, you know, wish, you know, wish I would've had plenty more, uh, funds to

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be able to, to buy and dollar cost average at the time, but, but just trickled in.

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And, uh, went through my altcoin phase in that 2016 ish time, uh,

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worked on an altcoin project, was, uh, was surrounded by guys that,

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that genuinely had, had good motives.

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So it wasn't like a, an outright scam on that front, but it was a, it

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was a, I guess you could call it a, a centralized group of people that,

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that didn't fully understand the, the, the big oomph to why Bitcoin

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mattered in, in, in decentralization.

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And so we could dive into some of the things that I got to experience

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through being in the marketing role for a blockchain project,

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um, that was very eye-opening.

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And it is leads to very compelling reasons of coming back to, to Bitcoin only.

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Um, so my, you know, my, my bell curve arc, or whatever you wanna call

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it, was Bitcoin only alt coin phase.

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And back here about, you know, 2019, uh, kind of landed back

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in the Bitcoin only space.

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and so, uh, then wrote a book kind of to, to talk about some of my experience.

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I, I wanted to.

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Share.

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It's called Bitcoin Evangelism.

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I wanted to share with those of those people that were like myself, that were in

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the altcoin space of why Bitcoin matters.

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I, I, I haven't read a lot of books that talk that are bitcoin only books

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that talk about the Altcoin space.

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I think one of the things I was getting from my Altcoin friends

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was that, Bitcoiners just don't understand the coin space.

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Therefore we're, you know, we were people that bought Bitcoin a long time ago,

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and so we're just hoping that Bitcoin works, and that was the only reason that

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we were pro Bitcoin or Bitcoin only.

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And so the book Chronicles Here's what.

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Is interesting about the coin space, but here's ultimately why that stuff fails,

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or why that stuff falls on its face.

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So it, it takes a very soft approach to it, um, but ultimately leads the reader

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back to a Bitcoin only, uh, approach.

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So I guess the hope with the book is if somebody's gonna go through it, as opposed

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to doing what I did and going through, you know, your bitcoin phase, your coin

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phase, and then coming back to Bitcoin.

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Hopefully you could read this book and then experience that entire process before

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having ever gone through your coin phase.

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Um, and then that in the process of doing my book tour and, and just networking

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and meeting people, I got to get in touch with orange pill app and I just

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signed up for orange pill App as a user when they launched at Pacific Bitcoin.

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Mateo, She just gave me the pitch and I was sold on the idea.

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I said, you know, this is a, I believe that this is a critical

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piece of Bitcoin's future.

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I think that we need something like this in order to facilitate

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this social layer for Bitcoin.

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And so that's what got me involved in the, the orange pill outside of things.

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Yeah.

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And the orange pill app is, is way more than just the app.

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Like, uh, now this sounds like a shameless chiller, but, but having, uh, having

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been, uh, um, an advisor for the orange pill app for a while now, and, uh, seen

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what it can do and how it brings people together, it's, it's truly remarkable.

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And also like how, how we, uh, how the, it brings Bitcoin company people

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together and all the synergies with, with Fountain App for instance, which

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we had a spaces with the other day.

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And, uh, all sorts of collaborations.

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Not least with the Konsensus Network in my book.

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So I, I know I'm biased saying this, but, but, uh, but these are not the only

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companies and not the only people in this.

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It's, uh, you can truly see the power of this thing.

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It's bringing all sorts of bitcoins together and it's, it

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is very nice and, uh, I think you're a very good spokesperson

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person for the, uh, orange pill.

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Uh, I mean, it's good to have a clear voice instead, uh, uh,

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instead of just Mateo going, uh, you need to download the Apple.

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I mean, I love Mateo and everything he does, but, uh, but, uh, it's good that

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you're in the space too and, and, uh, such a good, uh, host of all of these spaces

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and, um, and whatnot and whatever's coming down the, the Pipe for Inch Pill app.

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And I'm looking forward to, to see where, where we can take this

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thing and what it, what it can do.

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Yeah, no, I, I think that it's, it's really exciting to be a part of this team.

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I mean, that, that, that honestly was a big part of, aside from just seeing

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the vision of what Orange Pop could be, Mateo had assembled a, a pretty amazing

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group of advisors with you and Daniel Prince and Sessions and all these guys.

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So for, for him, the, the pitch to me was, Hey, do you wanna

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come work with orange pill Hop?

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And I said, I said, yeah, absolutely.

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I get to work with these guys and do a monthly meeting and, and talk to

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some of these people that I get to, you know, pick their brains and hear

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being a, an, an upstart Bitcoin author.

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And I get to talk to Knut about, I mean, again, you, your

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books in the background here.

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It's like, these are books that I've read myself.

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And then I found inspiration.

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And so that there was a lot of value add to me.

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Um, but one, I'd say one of the coolest things, like you said, that we get to

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work with these other Bitcoin companies.

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That are building in the space.

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And, uh, I found myself, even though I've always understood from an early,

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early time of being in Bitcoin that I need to lower my time preference.

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When you build in Bitcoin, when you're, when you're creating something in Bitcoin

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and, and working in that space, you lower your time preference even more.

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I found that that.

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I was finding out from other people in conversation that the Bitcoin

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price was up on a certain day.

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And I, it's like, wow, I didn't, I, I don't check the Bitcoin price, uh, you

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know, 40 times a day like I used to because I've been so focused on just

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pushing the social layer of Bitcoin, like how do we make more connections?

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That was, those were the metrics that I started.

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Um, I guess finding, finding excitement in my day is like, how many books did I sell?

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Okay, great.

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That means that there's x amount of more people that are potentially

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getting orange pill today.

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How many more people signed up for orange pill app?

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That's great because there's that many more social connections.

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Those were the metrics that I was constantly refreshing on my phone

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rather than the Bitcoin price.

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And so, um, it's, it's been very refreshing talking to

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other people in the space.

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Like you, you're constantly talking about how to lower our time preference.

229
00:12:10,779 --> 00:12:13,539
I mean, what if this thing takes a thousand generations?

230
00:12:13,539 --> 00:12:16,089
We should consider that a success.

231
00:12:16,479 --> 00:12:19,899
Um, and that's the mindset that I think is, is very important to have.

232
00:12:20,434 --> 00:12:23,464
And we're, you know, we're, we're, I'm getting a lot of that from working with

233
00:12:23,464 --> 00:12:25,804
Fountain and working with Geyser Fund.

234
00:12:26,674 --> 00:12:30,214
These companies aren't talking about what we're gonna do today or tomorrow.

235
00:12:30,214 --> 00:12:32,374
They're talking about what we're gonna build for the, for the next

236
00:12:32,374 --> 00:12:35,644
10 years, and let's, let's have a longer time horizon that way.

237
00:12:35,644 --> 00:12:38,214
So it's been very helpful for me in a pragmatic sense.

238
00:12:39,374 --> 00:12:40,934
A, another thing, yeah.

239
00:12:41,024 --> 00:12:46,654
Just to give a, a shout out and a mention to B2C map and Nathan, uh, who's, uh,

240
00:12:47,594 --> 00:12:52,544
Building this wonderful map of where, wherever the Bitcoin retailers and

241
00:12:52,544 --> 00:12:57,404
the Bitcoin ATMs and whatever are, uh, there's been a whole bunch of such

242
00:12:57,409 --> 00:13:02,744
services in the past, but none of them have, have been very e easily integrated

243
00:13:02,744 --> 00:13:05,234
into other websites and other apps.

244
00:13:05,494 --> 00:13:09,404
And, um, B2C MAP is work, working closely with orange pill app.

245
00:13:09,404 --> 00:13:13,934
So you can, you can get all the Bitcoin locations, so to speak,

246
00:13:13,994 --> 00:13:16,544
uh, in, directly in the app.

247
00:13:16,544 --> 00:13:22,459
So it, it's, it feels like an app that's, Putting it all together, uh, laying the

248
00:13:22,459 --> 00:13:24,029
final piece of the possible in a way.

249
00:13:24,629 --> 00:13:25,019
Well, yeah.

250
00:13:25,019 --> 00:13:29,759
And, and about 20 minutes ago, I just got off a phone call with, uh, Texas Slim.

251
00:13:29,764 --> 00:13:32,459
I'm not sure if you're familiar with him, but he runs the Beef Initiative.

252
00:13:32,969 --> 00:13:33,339
Um, oh yeah.

253
00:13:33,479 --> 00:13:37,349
And so we're, we're, yeah, we're, we're partnering with them in some capacity.

254
00:13:37,409 --> 00:13:40,979
Um, so we're, we're obviously promoting their events through the app.

255
00:13:41,039 --> 00:13:43,109
Um, we're not promoting, we're just posting them through the app

256
00:13:43,109 --> 00:13:44,009
and then they can promote 'em.

257
00:13:44,009 --> 00:13:46,589
We're gonna, you know, obviously retweet and share those events.

258
00:13:46,589 --> 00:13:50,219
But I went out to the Georgia Beach Beef Initiative, um,

259
00:13:50,309 --> 00:13:51,779
last year, and that was great.

260
00:13:51,779 --> 00:13:54,629
I mean, they're, they're, it's, it's very in line with what we're trying

261
00:13:54,634 --> 00:13:57,779
to do through orange pill app is facilitating in real life connections.

262
00:13:58,139 --> 00:14:01,919
And so they're, they're getting consumers to go and shake.

263
00:14:01,919 --> 00:14:03,719
That's their, that's their whole, you know, catchphrase is.

264
00:14:03,944 --> 00:14:06,434
Shake a rancher's hand, go and meet the rancher.

265
00:14:06,434 --> 00:14:10,274
Go and meet the guy that's growing your food or, or harvesting whatever it is,

266
00:14:10,694 --> 00:14:13,904
and actually look 'em in the eye, shake their hand, and you have this connection

267
00:14:14,054 --> 00:14:18,794
that's gonna be much more difficult for, for any encroachment of, of tyranny or

268
00:14:18,794 --> 00:14:23,384
legislation to break when you've made a, a personal connection, um, it's, it's

269
00:14:23,414 --> 00:14:27,074
much more difficult to shut that down rather than if you have simply an online

270
00:14:27,074 --> 00:14:30,704
connection and then, All they need, you know, all the, the bad guys need to do

271
00:14:30,704 --> 00:14:34,574
is shut down their online store or, you know, pause their store for some reason.

272
00:14:34,574 --> 00:14:36,374
Then you have no, you no longer have a connection.

273
00:14:36,379 --> 00:14:40,244
But, but if I have a, if I have, if there's a street that I can take to go

274
00:14:40,244 --> 00:14:44,924
to my rancher and pick up my food, that's a much more difficult bond to break.

275
00:14:45,194 --> 00:14:47,444
And so those are, those are some of the partnerships we're working

276
00:14:47,444 --> 00:14:48,614
on right now with orange pill App.

277
00:14:48,944 --> 00:14:52,634
Um, and it's really cool to see somebody like Texas Slim.

278
00:14:53,074 --> 00:14:56,884
Who I've met before, but I said, you know, how familiar are you with the orange pill?

279
00:14:57,004 --> 00:14:57,694
He said, oh my gosh.

280
00:14:57,694 --> 00:15:00,184
We were just, I was out in Australia and we were talking about that at

281
00:15:00,184 --> 00:15:01,564
the Australian Bitcoin conference.

282
00:15:01,569 --> 00:15:05,524
And, you know, people were getting really excited about this, this, uh,

283
00:15:05,764 --> 00:15:09,574
this tool that we have at our disposal to connect with people, people see the

284
00:15:09,579 --> 00:15:11,354
value of the in real life connection.

285
00:15:11,854 --> 00:15:15,904
Um, one of the most biggest, or one of the biggest strokes of genius I

286
00:15:15,904 --> 00:15:19,684
think Mateo had when he was creating the app was creating a paywall.

287
00:15:19,684 --> 00:15:22,984
Like I would've never had the foresight if I was creating a

288
00:15:22,984 --> 00:15:24,784
social network to have a paywall.

289
00:15:24,784 --> 00:15:27,334
For those that don't know, the app costs three bucks a month.

290
00:15:27,884 --> 00:15:33,494
But it's the best $3, $3 you'll ever spend because it filters out any bots

291
00:15:33,494 --> 00:15:35,054
noise or any of that kind of stuff.

292
00:15:35,534 --> 00:15:38,264
And, uh, I would've never done that cause I would've thought, wow,

293
00:15:38,324 --> 00:15:39,464
we're creating a social network.

294
00:15:39,464 --> 00:15:43,244
We need as many users as possible because then that will make more users come in.

295
00:15:43,754 --> 00:15:47,474
Mateo from the very beginning, had this approach of quality over quantity.

296
00:15:47,974 --> 00:15:50,444
Um, and that's just so in line with the Bitcoin ethos.

297
00:15:50,594 --> 00:15:54,134
It's like, I, I don't care if I have a million connections or not.

298
00:15:54,134 --> 00:15:58,184
I want a few really high quality, high signal connections.

299
00:15:58,514 --> 00:15:59,444
Um, but guess what?

300
00:15:59,444 --> 00:16:02,994
When that happens, when you, when you create a few high quality connections,

301
00:16:03,954 --> 00:16:08,174
People see that and they wanna be a part of that, and it actually grows and grows.

302
00:16:08,174 --> 00:16:12,974
And so we're seeing a pretty nice little, uh, streak of growth right now because

303
00:16:12,979 --> 00:16:14,354
people are connecting through the app.

304
00:16:14,564 --> 00:16:19,754
I was out at the, the swan salon at, uh, you know, a few weeks ago, and they

305
00:16:19,754 --> 00:16:22,904
had, you know, it's this really posh house where Swan hosts their private

306
00:16:22,904 --> 00:16:26,834
event for, for their, for their high net worth investor people or whatever.

307
00:16:27,194 --> 00:16:31,724
Um, and I'm, I was talking to a guy JD from Cypherpunk Films and he, he had

308
00:16:31,724 --> 00:16:33,134
his friend there and I said, oh, hey.

309
00:16:33,224 --> 00:16:34,454
And he said, this is my friend Derek.

310
00:16:34,454 --> 00:16:35,024
I'm like, oh, great.

311
00:16:35,024 --> 00:16:35,624
How'd you guys meet?

312
00:16:35,624 --> 00:16:38,804
And he goes, we met on orange pill App an hour before this event.

313
00:16:39,344 --> 00:16:42,854
I had a plus one ticket and I didn't have any Bitcoiners that wanted to come

314
00:16:42,854 --> 00:16:44,474
with me, so I went into orange pill app.

315
00:16:44,969 --> 00:16:48,509
And found this guy that lives kind of in my neighborhood and, uh, I

316
00:16:48,509 --> 00:16:50,609
just messaged him and said, Hey, do you wanna come to this event?

317
00:16:50,879 --> 00:16:54,359
And I said, oh, you, you know, you, you trusted that, that's, that's why did

318
00:16:54,364 --> 00:16:57,329
you feel so confident that you could go pick up a stranger in your car?

319
00:16:57,329 --> 00:16:59,609
You just pulled up out in front of his house, you d you, you

320
00:16:59,614 --> 00:17:01,049
DMed him and said, Hey, I'm here.

321
00:17:01,319 --> 00:17:03,229
What made you feel comfortable with that interaction?

322
00:17:03,229 --> 00:17:05,549
He goes, because I knew they were a Bitcoin.

323
00:17:06,239 --> 00:17:09,689
He goes, it, it, it created this, there was this curation process

324
00:17:09,689 --> 00:17:12,959
that happened where I had no problem picking up this dude and taking him

325
00:17:12,959 --> 00:17:14,489
to this event right when I met him.

326
00:17:14,889 --> 00:17:18,849
Because we've been able to interact within the b the Bitcoin ecosystem.

327
00:17:19,089 --> 00:17:21,999
Um, and so it's, it's very interesting seeing how these, these

328
00:17:21,999 --> 00:17:24,789
real life connections are, are playing out, that are, that are

329
00:17:24,789 --> 00:17:26,559
manifesting through a social network.

330
00:17:26,859 --> 00:17:28,719
I don't think we've ever seen anything like this before.

331
00:17:28,719 --> 00:17:31,879
I think that this is gonna be, uh, a use case that's talked about

332
00:17:32,169 --> 00:17:33,429
in textbooks for years to come.

333
00:17:33,429 --> 00:17:36,099
And I can say that because I didn't create the app, so I don't get

334
00:17:36,099 --> 00:17:37,359
to take any of the credit for it.

335
00:17:37,659 --> 00:17:40,869
But I think that, that, that business textbooks of the future will, will

336
00:17:40,874 --> 00:17:44,439
write about this is like how do you start a social network with a paywall?

337
00:17:44,679 --> 00:17:49,209
It could only happen in the Bitcoin ecosystem because if you try to start

338
00:17:49,209 --> 00:17:53,649
TikTok with a paywall, that demographic doesn't understand value for value, right?

339
00:17:53,649 --> 00:17:57,249
But Bitcoiners inherently understand value for value and, and why it's

340
00:17:57,249 --> 00:18:00,219
worth paying for something, um, to get something more out of it.

341
00:18:00,219 --> 00:18:03,519
So it's been very interesting to have a front row seat to this.

342
00:18:05,099 --> 00:18:05,429
Yeah.

343
00:18:05,429 --> 00:18:06,329
Fascinating.

344
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:12,089
It's, uh, valuable value is substituting attention for attention,

345
00:18:12,089 --> 00:18:15,029
I guess, or attention for ad revenue.

346
00:18:16,330 --> 00:18:16,540
yeah.

347
00:18:16,540 --> 00:18:17,290
And it's beautiful.

348
00:18:17,380 --> 00:18:18,760
Um, absolutely.

349
00:18:19,619 --> 00:18:20,699
yeah, that's one event.

350
00:18:20,879 --> 00:18:21,539
Uh, event.

351
00:18:21,539 --> 00:18:23,669
Was that the one in Miami or another event?

352
00:18:24,029 --> 00:18:24,249
So

353
00:18:24,249 --> 00:18:26,999
this was a, so this was one in Southern California.

354
00:18:26,999 --> 00:18:28,609
They do monthly Yeah.

355
00:18:28,959 --> 00:18:29,449
Meetups

356
00:18:29,549 --> 00:18:29,879
and stuff.

357
00:18:29,879 --> 00:18:30,059
Yeah.

358
00:18:30,299 --> 00:18:33,599
Yeah, because I attended some swan party in, in Miami.

359
00:18:33,599 --> 00:18:38,579
This, this, by the way, this is recorded between, uh, the Miami conference and the

360
00:18:38,579 --> 00:18:40,229
Prague conference, which is next week.

361
00:18:40,739 --> 00:18:45,809
So, uh, me and Luke will be in Prague and try to, try to do some stuff there, but I

362
00:18:45,809 --> 00:18:50,369
guess this episode will be released after Prague, so there's no use in chilling.

363
00:18:50,374 --> 00:18:51,149
That right Luke.

364
00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:58,129
No, uh, we're actually really trying to build up a big, uh, a big backlog because

365
00:18:58,129 --> 00:19:00,969
we've got a busy summer, but, uh, yeah.

366
00:19:00,969 --> 00:19:01,369
Yeah, yeah.

367
00:19:01,429 --> 00:19:03,109
But, but Prague's gonna be really cool.

368
00:19:03,109 --> 00:19:06,859
I mean, yeah, Brian and, uh, and I think a lot of the American Bitcoiners

369
00:19:06,859 --> 00:19:09,769
in general, I, I think you should try and make it out to, to the

370
00:19:09,774 --> 00:19:10,970
European conferences if you can.

371
00:19:10,999 --> 00:19:12,649
It's, it's a different vibe, I think.

372
00:19:12,769 --> 00:19:14,959
Have you been out to any of the European events?

373
00:19:15,439 --> 00:19:15,649
Mm-hmm.

374
00:19:15,739 --> 00:19:18,559
No, I've actually never been to Europe before, so, sorry.

375
00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:20,419
I feel like kinda, uh, ashamed of that.

376
00:19:20,599 --> 00:19:22,219
You should grab a ticket to Honey Badger.

377
00:19:22,549 --> 00:19:24,949
Come see, that's a pure signal event.

378
00:19:25,549 --> 00:19:25,819
Really?

379
00:19:26,269 --> 00:19:28,699
Reg regains the beginning of September.

380
00:19:28,969 --> 00:19:29,660
You should look into that.

381
00:19:29,749 --> 00:19:32,149
Uh, it's one of our favorite conferences.

382
00:19:32,329 --> 00:19:34,759
We'll be there if not, if not our favorite conference.

383
00:19:34,849 --> 00:19:36,889
Uh, it's where we at first time.

384
00:19:36,894 --> 00:19:36,929
Yeah.

385
00:19:36,929 --> 00:19:37,639
It's where, yeah.

386
00:19:37,729 --> 00:19:41,689
And it's where sort of where my Bitcoin career quote.

387
00:19:42,974 --> 00:19:47,954
Took off, uh, I brought 50 bucks in my hand luggage, uh, in 2019 to Riga,

388
00:19:48,314 --> 00:19:49,424
and that's where it all started.

389
00:19:50,304 --> 00:19:53,179
Why do you think those European events are like so high signal?

390
00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:58,119
Um, I mean, you could argue that in the US that that, that that's maybe not the case.

391
00:19:58,299 --> 00:19:59,589
Uh, it depends on the event.

392
00:19:59,739 --> 00:20:01,089
Uh, um, but yeah, why

393
00:20:01,659 --> 00:20:07,896
I, I think the Amer American culture is much more, and I guess especially

394
00:20:07,896 --> 00:20:14,736
after 1971, I should add that, but it's, uh, a much more, uh, it re it

395
00:20:15,186 --> 00:20:17,556
revolves around advertisement a lot.

396
00:20:17,946 --> 00:20:21,516
Uh, and that's not the case in Europe, uh, to, to the same extent.

397
00:20:22,146 --> 00:20:27,441
So, so it's this, In a way, FII mindset where you need to move fast and break

398
00:20:27,441 --> 00:20:33,681
things and just push your products, uh, as much as you can and big Strolight

399
00:20:33,681 --> 00:20:35,541
and banners and stuff everywhere.

400
00:20:36,111 --> 00:20:39,591
And you need to make as much noise as possible to get people's attention.

401
00:20:39,651 --> 00:20:42,621
And Europe is a little different, I guess also the.

402
00:20:43,981 --> 00:20:48,211
In the us like Bitcoin Miami is the biggest conference and it's

403
00:20:48,481 --> 00:20:53,431
sort of also, uh, it claims to be a Bitcoin only conference, but it's

404
00:20:53,821 --> 00:20:57,991
really, uh, a Bitcoin and, uh, a couple of shit coins conference.

405
00:20:58,441 --> 00:21:03,661
Uh, it's very inclusive like that and, uh, that's all nice and

406
00:21:03,661 --> 00:21:10,081
friendly, but it keeps the noise louder in relative to to the signal.

407
00:21:10,241 --> 00:21:10,519
Yeah.

408
00:21:10,646 --> 00:21:14,601
and I think in, in, in Europe that the conferences are, More separate.

409
00:21:14,601 --> 00:21:19,071
So there are Bitcoin only conferences and then the crypto, blockchain, whatever,

410
00:21:19,521 --> 00:21:23,181
shift conferences, um, uh, on the side.

411
00:21:23,181 --> 00:21:28,971
So, so, uh, yeah, uh, maybe that's just me being ignorant

412
00:21:28,971 --> 00:21:31,221
about other American conferences.

413
00:21:31,226 --> 00:21:35,001
I don't know how many mixed coin conferences or if they're, I, I hear

414
00:21:35,331 --> 00:21:37,401
bit block boom is quite high signal.

415
00:21:37,401 --> 00:21:41,541
And, uh, also of course the, the Pacific Bitcoin that, that's higher

416
00:21:41,546 --> 00:21:46,251
in, in terms of Bitcoin or to shitcoin or ratio during the conference.

417
00:21:46,256 --> 00:21:46,431
Yeah.

418
00:21:46,821 --> 00:21:50,661
I mean, then again, Miami is great because the Miami Conference is great

419
00:21:50,666 --> 00:21:52,401
because of all the site events as well.

420
00:21:52,401 --> 00:21:52,491
Mm-hmm.

421
00:21:52,491 --> 00:21:57,351
It creates a, since it's so big, it creates this, these sub-communities

422
00:21:57,351 --> 00:21:59,421
around, around the, the conference.

423
00:21:59,426 --> 00:22:03,231
I remember when, when I landed in Miami, the first thing I did was I, yeah.

424
00:22:03,721 --> 00:22:07,891
I, I bumped into Andy Edstrom and then we waited for his luggage for a while,

425
00:22:07,891 --> 00:22:13,261
and I just took a cab straight to this, uh, kill idle rock venue where

426
00:22:13,261 --> 00:22:15,391
I was doing the Satoshi Roto thing.

427
00:22:15,391 --> 00:22:22,126
So I just gave my luggage to, to, and, uh, He said, Kurt, you need to go up on stage.

428
00:22:22,126 --> 00:22:25,366
And I, I went up on stage and grabbed the guitar or a bass or something

429
00:22:25,366 --> 00:22:26,416
and played a couple of songs.

430
00:22:26,986 --> 00:22:27,976
And, uh, yeah.

431
00:22:27,976 --> 00:22:30,916
When I finished playing a couple of songs, I went out on the street

432
00:22:30,921 --> 00:22:33,976
again and there was my luggage under a table on the streets.

433
00:22:34,186 --> 00:22:36,316
So like, ah, we need to put this somewhere.

434
00:22:36,616 --> 00:22:37,156
Oh, yeah, yeah.

435
00:22:37,156 --> 00:22:37,876
Forgot about that.

436
00:22:37,956 --> 00:22:38,616
And, uh, yeah.

437
00:22:39,356 --> 00:22:42,196
But, but that, uh, event was pretty successful.

438
00:22:42,196 --> 00:22:46,246
So we're, uh, we thought more recent because I, I thought we played all the.

439
00:22:46,506 --> 00:22:49,896
The wrong notes and none of the good, the right notes, but, uh, people

440
00:22:49,896 --> 00:22:53,076
seem to have enjoyed it anyway, so we're doing it again in Prague now.

441
00:22:53,526 --> 00:22:54,026
Oh, that's cool.

442
00:22:54,096 --> 00:22:58,026
That's really, uh, yeah, so looking forward to that a lot, uh, with a

443
00:22:58,206 --> 00:23:00,936
slightly different band, but, uh, yeah.

444
00:23:01,986 --> 00:23:03,226
Well I was in the audience.

445
00:23:03,726 --> 00:23:04,657
I was in the audience for that.

446
00:23:04,746 --> 00:23:08,316
I, I, you know, that was, that was, that was such a boss move, man.

447
00:23:08,496 --> 00:23:10,086
It's like, uh, where, where's canoe?

448
00:23:10,146 --> 00:23:11,736
Oh, I heard his flight's just getting in.

449
00:23:11,736 --> 00:23:12,486
Okay, cool.

450
00:23:12,666 --> 00:23:17,171
And then, There's, and he just walks up on stage and starts just rock it out.

451
00:23:17,471 --> 00:23:19,271
It was like, this is how he says hi.

452
00:23:19,271 --> 00:23:22,331
He just comes up on stage and just starts killing it on the guitar.

453
00:23:22,331 --> 00:23:23,951
So, no man, that, that was really cool.

454
00:23:24,131 --> 00:23:24,311
No,

455
00:23:24,311 --> 00:23:28,061
but I'm, I'm living the meme and the dream at the same time here.

456
00:23:28,061 --> 00:23:33,281
I'm doing all the things that I wish I was doing when I was 26 and I'm 46 and I'm,

457
00:23:33,581 --> 00:23:35,291
it's actually happening and it's, yeah.

458
00:23:35,531 --> 00:23:40,061
To me it's just a dream come true to, to be able to go to Miami and go straight

459
00:23:40,061 --> 00:23:41,981
to rock venue and play a couple of riffs.

460
00:23:42,511 --> 00:23:43,161
That was so cool.

461
00:23:43,191 --> 00:23:43,481
Yeah.

462
00:23:44,681 --> 00:23:45,281
It's great.

463
00:23:46,147 --> 00:23:50,347
Uh, about your book, um, Bitcoin Evangelism, you say that it's

464
00:23:50,347 --> 00:23:52,692
for, um, It's for shift corners.

465
00:23:53,452 --> 00:23:53,742
Yeah.

466
00:23:54,802 --> 00:23:57,102
Is that the, is that the target audience for it?

467
00:23:57,102 --> 00:23:57,942
Or like, so

468
00:23:58,572 --> 00:24:01,842
Brian, that they uses a different word than you to refer to?

469
00:24:04,512 --> 00:24:05,532
I'm not ashamed of that.

470
00:24:05,537 --> 00:24:06,762
I'm gonna call it shift corners.

471
00:24:06,767 --> 00:24:07,242
Yeah, yeah.

472
00:24:07,242 --> 00:24:09,073
You, you call that, that's, I, I have no problem.

473
00:24:09,282 --> 00:24:10,332
I just don't like the cuss.

474
00:24:10,332 --> 00:24:11,142
I don't know what it is.

475
00:24:11,142 --> 00:24:13,272
I just, I just, I'm not, I'm not a swearer, which just

476
00:24:13,272 --> 00:24:14,322
was, was raised that way.

477
00:24:14,382 --> 00:24:19,572
Um, so I just say all coin, but I, I used it in select, uh, in select occasions.

478
00:24:19,577 --> 00:24:20,858
But, Anyways.

479
00:24:20,858 --> 00:24:24,548
Yeah, I mean, so the, the whole concept of evangelism, it, it

480
00:24:24,578 --> 00:24:26,648
hearkens back to Christian evangelism.

481
00:24:26,648 --> 00:24:30,938
So it was like Christian evangelism, whether you find merit in that or not.

482
00:24:31,008 --> 00:24:34,898
It, it was one of the most successful, successful movements of all time.

483
00:24:34,898 --> 00:24:37,718
And it was, it was because they had a really good formulated message

484
00:24:37,718 --> 00:24:38,908
for two groups of people, right?

485
00:24:38,908 --> 00:24:41,618
There was the atheist and then there was the pagan.

486
00:24:41,678 --> 00:24:44,318
So there was the person that didn't believe, and then there was the person

487
00:24:44,318 --> 00:24:47,888
that believed in a higher power or deity, but they believed in, you know, some

488
00:24:47,888 --> 00:24:50,588
variation of, of God or Gods or whatever.

489
00:24:50,918 --> 00:24:53,558
And it's like, that's kind of what we have here in the, in the bitcoin space.

490
00:24:53,558 --> 00:24:55,478
We have the, we have the no coin or we have the skeptic.

491
00:24:55,778 --> 00:24:58,228
And so there, there needs to be a, an argument formulated for them.

492
00:24:58,838 --> 00:25:02,738
And then we have the altcoin pagans, uh, that, that believe in, you know,

493
00:25:02,738 --> 00:25:06,248
they believe in blockchain, but they believe in some variation or they

494
00:25:06,248 --> 00:25:09,278
believe that, you know, uh, you know, decentralization doesn't matter,

495
00:25:09,278 --> 00:25:12,788
but what we really need is speed and scalability and those sorts of things.

496
00:25:12,788 --> 00:25:17,665
So being able to speak to those two types of people, I think is, is powerful.

497
00:25:17,665 --> 00:25:22,465
And I think that, If we want the Bitcoin community, maybe the lowest hanging

498
00:25:22,465 --> 00:25:27,715
fruit for bringing Bitcoiners or, or, or increasing the amount of Bitcoiners in the

499
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:33,085
world is just orange pilling the crypto community, uh, because they're people

500
00:25:33,090 --> 00:25:38,035
that, that are fascinated by, uh, maybe a change in, in, you know, a paradigm

501
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,195
shift in terms of money or value transfer.

502
00:25:40,495 --> 00:25:42,805
Um, some of these people are just in it to get rich quick.

503
00:25:42,805 --> 00:25:46,585
And so if you, if that's all they care about, then, then yeah, I guess

504
00:25:46,585 --> 00:25:49,825
the, the merits of Bitcoin aren't necessarily going to appeal to them.

505
00:25:50,125 --> 00:25:54,895
Um, because w yeah, I don't, we don't take much of approach of, of talking about this

506
00:25:54,895 --> 00:25:56,115
is why Bitcoin's gonna go to the moon.

507
00:25:56,575 --> 00:25:58,945
Um, and so maybe that's, that's the only thing that they're on,

508
00:25:59,095 --> 00:26:00,265
you know, crypto Twitter for.

509
00:26:00,475 --> 00:26:04,405
But if they do care about a, a fundamental change in the way that

510
00:26:04,405 --> 00:26:07,945
value is transferred, um, I've talked to plenty of friends of mine.

511
00:26:08,350 --> 00:26:11,380
That are really into Solana because they really are intrigued by

512
00:26:11,380 --> 00:26:13,750
the, by, by the movement of defi.

513
00:26:14,147 --> 00:26:16,997
all right, well, let's, let's break that down and, and, and fully

514
00:26:16,997 --> 00:26:18,527
understand what, what that means.

515
00:26:18,527 --> 00:26:21,497
And then most of the guys that I know that are on Solana, they

516
00:26:21,497 --> 00:26:25,147
don't understand that it's been 51% attacked multiple, multiple times.

517
00:26:25,167 --> 00:26:28,667
And so they, they don't realize how, how vulnerable their,

518
00:26:28,667 --> 00:26:30,137
their money or their funds are.

519
00:26:30,407 --> 00:26:33,527
And so just walking through that process is really important.

520
00:26:33,527 --> 00:26:37,157
And then even sharing some of my experiences from when I was the, the,

521
00:26:37,157 --> 00:26:40,097
the marketing guy for a blockchain project, like I was saying earlier,

522
00:26:40,337 --> 00:26:42,947
there's some experiences in there that were pretty eye-opening.

523
00:26:42,952 --> 00:26:43,507
I mean, so.

524
00:26:44,987 --> 00:26:48,257
Kind of like how I, I'm in my role in marketing right now for orange pill app.

525
00:26:48,257 --> 00:26:51,347
I was, I was in that similar role for this, this blockchain

526
00:26:51,347 --> 00:26:52,457
project called Athenian.

527
00:26:52,517 --> 00:26:55,247
And it was a education decentralizing education, right?

528
00:26:55,247 --> 00:26:57,497
Like that's what blockchain, yeah, blockchain projects.

529
00:26:57,737 --> 00:27:01,487
You take something, take lemonade stands and we're gonna decentralize lemonade

530
00:27:01,487 --> 00:27:03,707
stands or whatever, whatever, X, Y, Z.

531
00:27:03,712 --> 00:27:05,687
So that, that was kind of our mission at the time.

532
00:27:05,687 --> 00:27:05,897
Right.

533
00:27:06,347 --> 00:27:11,717
Well, you can imagine every day that I would wake up, I would have 10 dms

534
00:27:11,717 --> 00:27:16,157
in my inbox from another blockchain project saying, Hey, we're x, y, Z coin.

535
00:27:16,337 --> 00:27:20,207
Let's announce a partnership with you guys, and then we'll, we'll

536
00:27:20,207 --> 00:27:23,957
pump it and let's, I mean, they were literally just messages about pumping

537
00:27:23,957 --> 00:27:27,167
and dumping and, and scamming their, scamming their groups of people.

538
00:27:27,167 --> 00:27:29,267
So I think it's really important for, for.

539
00:27:29,687 --> 00:27:31,997
People that understand it when they're buying into these projects,

540
00:27:32,417 --> 00:27:36,317
the, the, the people that you're buying these coins from are actively

541
00:27:36,317 --> 00:27:38,597
pursuing a scam of your money.

542
00:27:38,597 --> 00:27:41,327
They're lit, they're actively trying to siphon off your money.

543
00:27:41,332 --> 00:27:44,117
And I think that most people don't understand it, that, that humans

544
00:27:44,122 --> 00:27:45,107
would do that to one another.

545
00:27:45,767 --> 00:27:46,427
It's crazy.

546
00:27:46,427 --> 00:27:48,807
To us it's, it, it's, it's obvious, right?

547
00:27:48,827 --> 00:27:52,307
We, we know that there's scammers out there, but most people think that the

548
00:27:52,307 --> 00:27:56,537
blockchain spaces like this altruistic playground of, of people being, you know,

549
00:27:56,542 --> 00:28:00,347
singing, you know, sunshine and rainbows and lollipops and all that kind of stuff.

550
00:28:00,587 --> 00:28:03,377
And so the naivety in that space is pretty high.

551
00:28:03,377 --> 00:28:06,677
And so just even sharing some of those stories about overt

552
00:28:06,677 --> 00:28:08,477
scams is, is really powerful.

553
00:28:08,477 --> 00:28:12,587
But one of the most eye-opening things that I saw, um, after I'd been asked

554
00:28:13,187 --> 00:28:16,667
a thousand times to try and pump and dump our coin, which we never did,

555
00:28:16,757 --> 00:28:18,137
we, we never did on our side of it.

556
00:28:18,137 --> 00:28:21,367
We actually had people that, that weren't, weren't of that mindset.

557
00:28:23,012 --> 00:28:27,182
I actually went to one of the, the exchanges that we had our coin listed on,

558
00:28:27,182 --> 00:28:31,412
it was one of those small exchanges, c pay tax or one, one of the, one of the,

559
00:28:31,417 --> 00:28:35,282
the, the, the exchanges, that's probably blown up by now, but I, it was, it was

560
00:28:35,492 --> 00:28:39,482
late one night and there was about $200 worth of our coin on this exchange.

561
00:28:39,482 --> 00:28:44,282
We had the, our coin was, uh, a e m was the name of the coin, and I

562
00:28:44,282 --> 00:28:46,322
bought all $200 worth of the coin.

563
00:28:46,322 --> 00:28:51,032
I said, I wonder what happens if I buy up all the liquidity of this coin and

564
00:28:51,032 --> 00:28:53,342
now there's no liquidity on the market.

565
00:28:53,987 --> 00:28:56,327
What happened was I bought the $200 worth of coin.

566
00:28:56,447 --> 00:28:58,127
They were all 2 cents per coin.

567
00:28:58,577 --> 00:29:01,967
And then what I did was I sold the next coin to myself.

568
00:29:01,967 --> 00:29:04,157
So Wash traded it to myself.

569
00:29:04,157 --> 00:29:07,277
I didn't even have to log in and, and go into a different account.

570
00:29:07,277 --> 00:29:10,997
I was able to create a sell order and then buy it through my exact

571
00:29:10,997 --> 00:29:15,167
same account, and I, I sold the next coin to myself for a dollar.

572
00:29:15,347 --> 00:29:19,967
So I 50 x the price of the coin in one cell by selling it to myself.

573
00:29:20,387 --> 00:29:21,797
And I said, okay, that's interesting.

574
00:29:21,797 --> 00:29:24,617
If 50 x the, the, the price on this one exchange, right?

575
00:29:24,647 --> 00:29:25,277
That was it.

576
00:29:25,447 --> 00:29:26,087
No, no, no.

577
00:29:26,177 --> 00:29:27,257
I went to Coin Gecko.

578
00:29:27,257 --> 00:29:30,618
I went to Coin Market Cap, and our coin went from number 1300

579
00:29:30,623 --> 00:29:35,597
in the world to number 400 in the world in one cell for $1.

580
00:29:35,597 --> 00:29:37,877
Our market cap increased by 5 million.

581
00:29:38,447 --> 00:29:39,857
According to these websites.

582
00:29:39,857 --> 00:29:42,107
It aggregated across the entire internet.

583
00:29:42,437 --> 00:29:46,697
And it told everybody that the new price of this coin is now $1, because

584
00:29:46,697 --> 00:29:49,107
I sold one coin to myself for $1.

585
00:29:49,287 --> 00:29:52,307
So the, the market increased by $5 million.

586
00:29:52,497 --> 00:29:54,507
By the sale, and I know this because I saw it.

587
00:29:54,507 --> 00:29:55,137
It was me.

588
00:29:55,137 --> 00:29:55,947
I did it myself.

589
00:29:56,217 --> 00:30:00,237
The market increased by 5 million because of the sale of a $1 coin.

590
00:30:00,657 --> 00:30:01,467
I sold it back.

591
00:30:01,472 --> 00:30:03,327
I equ, I created equilibrium in the market.

592
00:30:03,327 --> 00:30:05,967
I just did that as an experiment and I put it back to where it was.

593
00:30:06,327 --> 00:30:10,317
The next day I resigned and I focused on Bitcoin only education.

594
00:30:10,317 --> 00:30:12,657
I said, this is way too, I had no idea.

595
00:30:12,657 --> 00:30:14,457
I knew that there there might be problems in the market.

596
00:30:14,757 --> 00:30:19,077
I had no idea it was that fickle of a market that 5 million could

597
00:30:19,077 --> 00:30:21,057
move off of a $1 transaction.

598
00:30:22,067 --> 00:30:26,807
Yeah, but this is why, uh, Bitcoin dominance index is such a bullshit metric

599
00:30:27,317 --> 00:30:31,337
because all of the other ones, like the way they calculate the market cap is ju

600
00:30:31,367 --> 00:30:35,687
just how you, you described it like they issue, they, they sell one coin for a

601
00:30:35,692 --> 00:30:39,257
dollar and then they issue a billion coins and all of a sudden you have a billion

602
00:30:39,257 --> 00:30:41,597
dollar market cap and it's all bullshit.

603
00:30:41,657 --> 00:30:45,017
It's, it's not because they actually sold a billion dollars at all.

604
00:30:45,077 --> 00:30:47,207
They sold $1 and Yeah.

605
00:30:47,317 --> 00:30:52,967
And, and, uh, more often than not to themselves in, in one way or or another.

606
00:30:52,972 --> 00:30:53,097
Yeah.

607
00:30:53,327 --> 00:30:53,387
Yeah.

608
00:30:53,387 --> 00:30:54,887
And so, so we, yeah.

609
00:30:54,887 --> 00:30:59,627
I, I, I get that you've been working with a lot of sincere people in the Alcon

610
00:30:59,627 --> 00:31:03,977
space and I think, I think that a, a huge chunk of the people working with.

611
00:31:04,472 --> 00:31:07,622
Uh, alt coins, for lack of a better word, or there is a better

612
00:31:07,622 --> 00:31:09,272
word, but anyway, uh, you can say

613
00:31:09,272 --> 00:31:09,362
it.

614
00:31:09,362 --> 00:31:11,072
I'm not offend, I'm not offended by hearing

615
00:31:11,072 --> 00:31:11,192
it.

616
00:31:11,222 --> 00:31:13,202
No, but I, I don't wanna offend them.

617
00:31:13,502 --> 00:31:19,232
It's that, uh, it's that there's always an asshole on top, for lack of a better word.

618
00:31:19,622 --> 00:31:23,432
Uh, uh, with all of these projects, there's always someone who knows

619
00:31:23,432 --> 00:31:28,442
what's going on and that person, because they, they, they must have,

620
00:31:28,832 --> 00:31:34,682
you know, at some point, stumbled upon Bitcoin to be in the alt coin space,

621
00:31:34,952 --> 00:31:37,022
quote unquote altcoin space at all.

622
00:31:37,052 --> 00:31:38,522
You need to know about Bitcoin.

623
00:31:38,582 --> 00:31:41,912
Like you need to, you need to at least have heard of Bitcoin, and if

624
00:31:41,912 --> 00:31:46,172
you've done the tiniest amount of research, you realize that there can

625
00:31:46,172 --> 00:31:50,008
be only, there can be only one, that doesn't really have anyone on top.

626
00:31:50,068 --> 00:31:53,158
And furthermore, the decentralizations, uh, part.

627
00:31:54,013 --> 00:31:58,243
As you say, they want to decentral, decentralized shoes and, and, uh, you

628
00:31:58,243 --> 00:32:00,733
know, hairdresser, education and whatever.

629
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,770
decentralization in Bitcoin is an unfortunate means to a

630
00:32:05,770 --> 00:32:07,510
greater end and nothing more.

631
00:32:07,930 --> 00:32:12,490
The only it, it is unfortunate that we need decentralization because

632
00:32:12,490 --> 00:32:16,360
the only reason we do is because we can't trust one another with

633
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,220
money, with or with a money printer.

634
00:32:18,340 --> 00:32:19,840
It has never worked in history.

635
00:32:20,290 --> 00:32:25,312
The, the, the guy with the money printer, Can never assist the

636
00:32:25,312 --> 00:32:27,052
temptation to press the copy button.

637
00:32:28,162 --> 00:32:33,082
That is the problem with all, with all money, uh, throughout history and so, so,

638
00:32:33,142 --> 00:32:35,662
or with all currencies throughout history.

639
00:32:36,112 --> 00:32:39,472
So that's the problem we're trying to solve, uh, through,

640
00:32:39,922 --> 00:32:41,872
uh, by using decentralization.

641
00:32:42,082 --> 00:32:46,312
But what we want, what we want to get to is sound money that

642
00:32:46,402 --> 00:32:49,912
is censorship resistant and no, no one can do anything about.

643
00:32:50,332 --> 00:32:54,022
And no one can take away from you by force very easily because they

644
00:32:54,022 --> 00:32:55,342
cannot know how much you have.

645
00:32:55,882 --> 00:32:58,372
And that is the greater end.

646
00:32:58,612 --> 00:33:00,862
And it has nothing to do with decentralization.

647
00:33:00,892 --> 00:33:06,832
It has everything to do with markets and, uh, meritocracy and, uh, you know,

648
00:33:06,892 --> 00:33:09,952
fairness, truth, all of this stuff.

649
00:33:10,447 --> 00:33:14,767
So, uh, yeah, we had, this was in our conversation with Alexander Bar as well,

650
00:33:14,827 --> 00:33:21,367
uh, Luke, how, how, uh, Bitcoin, because speaking of evangelism, excuse me for

651
00:33:21,637 --> 00:33:25,837
going on a little ranter, Brian, but, but I, I get some, some nice ideas here.

652
00:33:25,867 --> 00:33:32,677
Like the, the, uh, some people view Bitcoin as a religion and uh, that's

653
00:33:32,677 --> 00:33:36,457
all fine and some people view it as a cult and that's also fine.

654
00:33:36,967 --> 00:33:39,247
I find it more, uh, to be.

655
00:33:39,997 --> 00:33:43,927
That what we're living in now is the cult because what we're living

656
00:33:43,927 --> 00:33:48,967
in now requires belief and Bitcoin doesn't really require belief.

657
00:33:48,997 --> 00:33:56,857
It's very rigid and it's very, it's all about the logos, uh, and uh, the logos.

658
00:33:57,157 --> 00:34:01,837
Uh, being that it's all once and zeros and it's all communication and

659
00:34:01,837 --> 00:34:05,737
you can look up every step of it, and you don't have to trust anyone

660
00:34:05,737 --> 00:34:07,807
really, if, if you do your homework.

661
00:34:08,532 --> 00:34:12,312
Uh, in all these little sub caverns of the rabbit hole.

662
00:34:12,612 --> 00:34:16,302
So, so in that sense, I, I view it as financial atheism,

663
00:34:16,302 --> 00:34:17,622
as I wrote in my first book.

664
00:34:17,652 --> 00:34:21,372
Like You, uh, that, that's another angle on this, that we're,

665
00:34:21,372 --> 00:34:24,252
we're the ones breaking out of a cult, not the ones in a cult.

666
00:34:24,912 --> 00:34:28,932
Uh, however, that's sort of hard to promote to when 99% of the

667
00:34:28,932 --> 00:34:30,642
population is still in the cult.

668
00:34:30,762 --> 00:34:34,212
So it's, maybe it's better to, to take the other angle,

669
00:34:34,632 --> 00:34:36,552
uh, split feelings about that.

670
00:34:37,002 --> 00:34:43,032
But in that sense, I feel that Bitcoin is using this ultimate logos to create the,

671
00:34:43,032 --> 00:34:47,082
the pathos and the mythos, which is the, the other two aspects of the human psyche.

672
00:34:47,082 --> 00:34:53,322
So we get, we get to morality and spirituality through having perfect logic.

673
00:34:54,552 --> 00:34:56,892
So we are using logic to create the other two.

674
00:34:57,582 --> 00:35:01,582
And that's what I find so, So wonderful about it.

675
00:35:01,792 --> 00:35:05,932
One of the aspects because it creates, uh, something outta

676
00:35:05,932 --> 00:35:07,672
nothing, for lack of a better phrase.

677
00:35:08,092 --> 00:35:15,142
Uh, it creates, uh, when you have truth in the bass slay of, of just,

678
00:35:15,232 --> 00:35:18,402
just like your story with a guy that picked up a new found friend

679
00:35:18,682 --> 00:35:20,572
via orange biap to this one party.

680
00:35:21,112 --> 00:35:26,182
Uh, when you have truth in the base layer of who we are, uh, then it's

681
00:35:26,182 --> 00:35:30,322
much easier to, to trust other people because, you know, if they're a true

682
00:35:30,532 --> 00:35:32,122
Bitcoin, they have good intentions.

683
00:35:32,122 --> 00:35:34,192
They don't have this shitty shit coin intentions.

684
00:35:34,762 --> 00:35:40,972
So, so, so that's, that's what I find the, the duality of that, having

685
00:35:40,972 --> 00:35:46,432
this, uh, Absolute truth in the base layer en enable, or that you can

686
00:35:46,432 --> 00:35:51,502
verify every step of the base layer that this adversarial thinking in the

687
00:35:51,502 --> 00:35:55,942
base layer that enables this truth layer, which enables trust between

688
00:35:55,942 --> 00:35:58,552
people on the other side of the coin.

689
00:35:58,662 --> 00:35:59,082
Mm-hmm.

690
00:35:59,512 --> 00:35:59,802
Yeah.

691
00:36:00,112 --> 00:36:03,052
Well, I mean in, in, in, in praxeology you talk a lot about

692
00:36:03,052 --> 00:36:06,232
axioms and, and things that we can, that, that are apparent, right?

693
00:36:06,232 --> 00:36:08,062
That, that can lead to human action.

694
00:36:08,422 --> 00:36:13,882
Um, I was thinking about this on the plane ride home is, is how there's a

695
00:36:13,882 --> 00:36:16,072
tremendous amount of centralization.

696
00:36:16,072 --> 00:36:18,292
When I was sitting on the plane, I'm like, there's a tremendous amount

697
00:36:18,292 --> 00:36:20,182
of centralization in this plane.

698
00:36:20,422 --> 00:36:21,772
There's a hundred of us on the plane.

699
00:36:22,012 --> 00:36:23,332
There's two pilots in the front.

700
00:36:23,662 --> 00:36:27,442
Why, why do I actually trust this centralization right here?

701
00:36:27,447 --> 00:36:30,982
Because I was just at a conference where all we talked about was decentralization.

702
00:36:31,222 --> 00:36:35,572
Why does this work in this case, uh, that that a hundred people are trusting too?

703
00:36:35,872 --> 00:36:38,212
It's because there's aligned incentives, right?

704
00:36:38,332 --> 00:36:42,652
And so my, my human action, I, I, I can get on a plane and be comfortable

705
00:36:42,682 --> 00:36:46,942
in that interaction because I, I believe that those pilots want to get

706
00:36:46,942 --> 00:36:50,092
home to their families in the same way that I want to get home to my family.

707
00:36:50,302 --> 00:36:55,432
But as soon as incentives become disaligned, then, then,

708
00:36:55,492 --> 00:36:58,582
then centralization and, and power no longer works, right?

709
00:36:58,582 --> 00:37:02,572
And so across an economy, across, especially the globe,

710
00:37:02,812 --> 00:37:03,773
we can't, we can't really.

711
00:37:04,822 --> 00:37:08,242
We, we've never really had a good way to align incentives and, you know,

712
00:37:08,272 --> 00:37:12,832
until something like Bitcoin where we can verify every, every process,

713
00:37:12,832 --> 00:37:15,682
every step of the transaction, we don't have to trust, we can verify.

714
00:37:15,832 --> 00:37:19,582
So I no longer have to trust that the pilot wants to get home to his family.

715
00:37:19,642 --> 00:37:22,672
I, I no longer have to trust that the central banker has

716
00:37:22,672 --> 00:37:23,602
my best interest in mind.

717
00:37:24,082 --> 00:37:29,122
I can just verify that, that the, that the greedy minor that's trying to mine Bitcoin

718
00:37:29,122 --> 00:37:30,652
because he wants to enrich himself.

719
00:37:30,892 --> 00:37:32,002
I can trust in the fact that.

720
00:37:32,827 --> 00:37:37,327
While he's enriching himself by mining, he's securing my Bitcoin and therefore

721
00:37:37,327 --> 00:37:38,947
I'm benefiting from that interaction.

722
00:37:39,217 --> 00:37:44,230
Um, the, the incentives become aligned, through, through self-motivation in

723
00:37:44,230 --> 00:37:49,630
the same way that the pilot, his, his self-motivation to get home, it aligns

724
00:37:49,630 --> 00:37:50,921
with my self-motivation to get home.

725
00:37:51,220 --> 00:37:54,400
And so I think that that Bitcoin's found a way, and that's probably, that's

726
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,460
part of the revolution is that it, it was the first time that that humanity

727
00:37:57,465 --> 00:38:01,930
found a way for the monetary system to align incentives with people that have.

728
00:38:02,130 --> 00:38:04,680
Completely different motivations.

729
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,340
Um, and so that's, that's, yeah, I, I think that that's fascinating.

730
00:38:08,340 --> 00:38:12,300
The, the, in terms of how you're talking about the logos leading to the Yeah.

731
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:12,990
Spiritual

732
00:38:12,990 --> 00:38:13,260
side.

733
00:38:13,470 --> 00:38:17,430
It, it's, it's sort of what, what money is supposed to do, but has

734
00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:20,130
never been able to do because money has always been corrupted.

735
00:38:20,130 --> 00:38:24,060
So like with the, with the airplane and the airline and the airport and

736
00:38:24,065 --> 00:38:28,873
everyone involved, the thing we trust is the division of labor because we d

737
00:38:28,933 --> 00:38:30,583
we trust the pilots drive the plane.

738
00:38:30,583 --> 00:38:33,703
We trust the c e o of the airline company to run the company, and

739
00:38:33,703 --> 00:38:38,313
we trust the, the barista in the airport to make our coffee and so on.

740
00:38:38,653 --> 00:38:39,583
And that's beautiful.

741
00:38:39,583 --> 00:38:40,873
It's the division of labor.

742
00:38:41,353 --> 00:38:47,473
Uh, however, if that, if that mechanism, uh, gets distorted by

743
00:38:47,503 --> 00:38:51,853
crappy money and doesn't function anymore, then, then we have to.

744
00:38:52,213 --> 00:38:57,823
Resort to, to, uh, to trust the pilot not wanting to kill himself.

745
00:38:57,913 --> 00:39:03,883
Like then again, the pilot has to trust the, the, the fuel guy to

746
00:39:03,883 --> 00:39:09,073
have, uh, you know, top really have topped up the plane so that we can

747
00:39:09,078 --> 00:39:10,364
get to our destinations and stuff.

748
00:39:10,713 --> 00:39:15,673
But, but the, uh, the more fiat gets corrupted, the, the harder it will

749
00:39:15,673 --> 00:39:20,473
become to trust the pilot to do, uh, to do his job for, for the proper reasons

750
00:39:20,743 --> 00:39:21,973
and the more we have to trust him.

751
00:39:22,988 --> 00:39:26,348
To just not crash the plane because he has an incentive to survive.

752
00:39:26,798 --> 00:39:26,998
Yeah.

753
00:39:27,218 --> 00:39:30,278
That's, that's the doom and gloom, uh, the doom and gloom motive

754
00:39:30,488 --> 00:39:32,168
versus the, uh, the market motive.

755
00:39:32,173 --> 00:39:34,718
I, I like, I like yours, yours is a bit more optimistic.

756
00:39:36,428 --> 00:39:39,068
The division of labor is much more compelling than the,

757
00:39:39,128 --> 00:39:40,058
I just don't want to die.

758
00:39:40,508 --> 00:39:41,438
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

759
00:39:42,218 --> 00:39:47,768
But, uh, Fiat makes us believe in a way that, that everyone is just in

760
00:39:47,768 --> 00:39:52,658
it for the, I, I just don't wanna die thing and are willing to do whatever

761
00:39:52,658 --> 00:39:57,578
for money and on a Bitcoin standard, that, that is not necessary anymore.

762
00:39:58,308 --> 00:40:02,348
Because once you're above a certain threshold, nobody knows what

763
00:40:02,348 --> 00:40:03,728
that threshold is, by the way.

764
00:40:03,908 --> 00:40:08,528
But you can, you can be sure that if you just don't spend it all, uh,

765
00:40:08,528 --> 00:40:11,498
it will provide you with all the security you need for the future.

766
00:40:12,038 --> 00:40:16,298
Making, making each human being a much calmer, a much more, you

767
00:40:16,298 --> 00:40:20,168
know, at ease person, that, that is just better to interact with.

768
00:40:20,598 --> 00:40:20,798
Mm.

769
00:40:21,608 --> 00:40:22,148
As we know.

770
00:40:23,193 --> 00:40:24,273
Yeah, I agree.

771
00:40:25,673 --> 00:40:27,803
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794
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Brian, I'd

795
00:41:42,317 --> 00:41:44,592
like to hear a little bit more about, since you have a background

796
00:41:44,592 --> 00:41:48,912
in, in marketing, uh, I guess I've kind of got two questions.

797
00:41:48,912 --> 00:41:50,562
I'll start with, I'll start with the first one.

798
00:41:50,562 --> 00:41:53,322
So how did you get into marketing?

799
00:41:53,322 --> 00:41:56,862
How did that turn into the, the role that you, you tend to have these

800
00:41:56,862 --> 00:41:57,132
days?

801
00:41:57,972 --> 00:42:01,182
Um, well, I, uh, in college, I, I didn't study marketing.

802
00:42:01,182 --> 00:42:05,442
I, I studied something that, uh, commute would call a fake

803
00:42:05,447 --> 00:42:07,382
science of, I studied psychology.

804
00:42:08,022 --> 00:42:14,052
I having, I wouldn't say that having studied psychology and, and gotten a

805
00:42:14,052 --> 00:42:18,192
degree in, in human behavioral science, I think that that, uh, yeah, it's, it is one

806
00:42:18,197 --> 00:42:22,127
of those things where, Perhaps I would've done something different in hindsight,

807
00:42:22,187 --> 00:42:24,017
uh, if, if I'd known the conclusion of it.

808
00:42:24,017 --> 00:42:28,367
But it did, uh, it did grant some, some, or it did lend itself

809
00:42:28,372 --> 00:42:30,137
to the, the field of marketing.

810
00:42:30,137 --> 00:42:32,777
So after college, I actually went in and started, uh, my

811
00:42:32,777 --> 00:42:34,067
wife and I started a business.

812
00:42:34,127 --> 00:42:36,858
Um, we, we, we do, we've been running it for the last 14 years.

813
00:42:37,097 --> 00:42:37,767
We do a light therapy.

814
00:42:38,347 --> 00:42:40,877
Uh, we have a small chain of light therapy studio.

815
00:42:40,877 --> 00:42:43,727
So we do infrared, sauna, red light therapy.

816
00:42:43,727 --> 00:42:44,087
I don't know.

817
00:42:44,147 --> 00:42:45,767
These things are becoming popular now.

818
00:42:45,857 --> 00:42:48,467
Um, but when we started, they certainly weren't popular.

819
00:42:48,467 --> 00:42:52,007
We even do, uh, like vitamin d sunbeds, there's people that,

820
00:42:52,007 --> 00:42:54,917
believe it or not, even in Southern California, don't get sunshine.

821
00:42:54,917 --> 00:42:57,857
And so their doctors have them come in and, and get sunshine.

822
00:42:57,857 --> 00:43:04,457
So it was this, I think I really was able to sharpen my teeth a bit, um, in a field

823
00:43:04,457 --> 00:43:08,837
and starting a business that was kind of this holistic type of business where,

824
00:43:09,107 --> 00:43:11,597
uh, people were treating aches and pains.

825
00:43:11,787 --> 00:43:16,382
Um, People that were looking to get off their prescription meds and maybe treat

826
00:43:16,382 --> 00:43:18,842
their arthritis through infrared sauna.

827
00:43:19,082 --> 00:43:23,402
Um, how do you, when, when, when the paradigm of society is you have a pain

828
00:43:23,402 --> 00:43:28,382
and you take a pill, uh, it's really hard to unwind some of that thinking.

829
00:43:28,772 --> 00:43:31,083
And so here, here, instead of taking the pill, it's gonna make

830
00:43:31,232 --> 00:43:32,762
you feel good in about five minutes.

831
00:43:33,092 --> 00:43:35,972
Here, let's, let's do this therapy that's gonna take you a month to start

832
00:43:35,972 --> 00:43:39,812
feeling good and it's gonna take a month for you to, to kill your inflammation.

833
00:43:40,022 --> 00:43:43,082
But I promise you, in the end, you might not ever need that pill again.

834
00:43:43,082 --> 00:43:47,192
Cause we might, we might not cure, but we might treat the underlying cause of

835
00:43:47,192 --> 00:43:49,352
your problem and fix it in the long term.

836
00:43:49,352 --> 00:43:53,582
So from, from even when I was still in my fiat mindset when I was in, you know,

837
00:43:53,672 --> 00:43:58,592
pre Bitcoin, I was marketing a business that, that had low time preference.

838
00:43:58,862 --> 00:44:04,472
And so I've just been programmed with this idea that if something is true,

839
00:44:04,862 --> 00:44:08,852
Then we just continue to champion it and talk about its merits, because

840
00:44:08,852 --> 00:44:12,782
there will always be a portion of the population that's interested in that.

841
00:44:12,842 --> 00:44:15,152
People are drawn to truth.

842
00:44:15,572 --> 00:44:18,692
Um, there's people that are actively trying to suppress truth.

843
00:44:18,992 --> 00:44:21,842
But even just like in, in, in psychology, we know, we know all the

844
00:44:21,847 --> 00:44:26,222
time the things that we're trying to suppress are often the things that

845
00:44:26,222 --> 00:44:27,752
we're wrestling with the most, right?

846
00:44:27,752 --> 00:44:31,742
So our culture is in this state of suppressing truth, but I think it's

847
00:44:31,742 --> 00:44:34,712
because young people or the, the TikTok generation, they're trying

848
00:44:34,712 --> 00:44:38,792
to suppress truth so much because it weighs on them so heavily.

849
00:44:38,942 --> 00:44:43,142
So I think that in the end, marketing and championing these things, there,

850
00:44:43,142 --> 00:44:45,452
there's, there's, I don't think there's any secret sauce to this.

851
00:44:45,452 --> 00:44:48,662
It's, it's the same if we're promoting Bitcoin, it's the same if we're promoting

852
00:44:48,692 --> 00:44:52,652
holistic treatments of, uh, to, to, you know, to treat, you know, your

853
00:44:52,652 --> 00:44:54,542
whatever, your vitamin D deficiency.

854
00:44:54,782 --> 00:44:57,152
All of these things are kind of the same way, is.

855
00:44:57,577 --> 00:44:58,717
This stuff works.

856
00:44:58,987 --> 00:45:03,397
If you stay the course, if you're looking at a short-term fix, this isn't for you.

857
00:45:03,547 --> 00:45:06,967
But if you're looking for a long-term remedy, then this

858
00:45:06,967 --> 00:45:08,047
is the way you want to go.

859
00:45:08,227 --> 00:45:12,067
And so just being honest and tipping your cards, the, the greatest piece

860
00:45:12,067 --> 00:45:15,687
of, of business advice that I, I think I ever give to people is, don't

861
00:45:15,687 --> 00:45:18,037
hold your cards close to your vest.

862
00:45:18,277 --> 00:45:22,657
In business negotiations or whatever I've done in the past, when I just lay

863
00:45:22,657 --> 00:45:27,157
everything out and I tell somebody in a business negotiation what I want and what

864
00:45:27,157 --> 00:45:30,307
I need, and I ask them what do they want and what do they need, if we just lay

865
00:45:30,312 --> 00:45:34,287
the cards out on the table, I found that the best business negotiations happen.

866
00:45:34,587 --> 00:45:38,197
It, it's the, it's the most mutually beneficial exchange that we could

867
00:45:38,197 --> 00:45:42,607
possibly have by telling the other person what I need and them telling me what

868
00:45:42,612 --> 00:45:47,857
I, what, what they need, um, and being honest in the fact that if, if what I'm

869
00:45:48,007 --> 00:45:51,092
providing to them, Isn't a short-term fix.

870
00:45:51,092 --> 00:45:55,412
Isn't, isn't, Hey, this isn't gonna fix what you need right now, but if you, if

871
00:45:55,412 --> 00:45:57,542
you stick with me, we can get you there.

872
00:45:57,842 --> 00:46:03,062
Um, people love authenticity and so to me that's the most powerful form of

873
00:46:03,062 --> 00:46:04,922
marketing ever is, is being authentic.

874
00:46:05,132 --> 00:46:08,302
And I think that that's why it didn't work out for me being in the crypto space.

875
00:46:08,412 --> 00:46:12,542
That was just, it was a, it was a natural filtration process that the crypto space

876
00:46:12,542 --> 00:46:17,402
kicked me out because I didn't like my, my, my, my message wasn't received by

877
00:46:17,402 --> 00:46:19,112
taking a long-term approach to things.

878
00:46:19,382 --> 00:46:24,002
Um, and so I, that's why Bitcoin, the gravity of Bitcoin drew me back

879
00:46:24,007 --> 00:46:30,002
in was because I like long-term real, authentic truth and, uh,

880
00:46:30,512 --> 00:46:32,072
that's what brings me here today.

881
00:46:32,132 --> 00:46:32,312
Yeah.

882
00:46:33,902 --> 00:46:36,992
You know, you've, uh, uh, you said a lot of really good things, so

883
00:46:36,992 --> 00:46:41,102
I feel bad for, uh, for steering in this direction specifically.

884
00:46:41,102 --> 00:46:44,342
But you, you, uh, you, you do infrared sauna only.

885
00:46:45,347 --> 00:46:45,737
Yeah.

886
00:46:45,917 --> 00:46:46,097
Oh no.

887
00:46:46,157 --> 00:46:50,267
So we do, it's a, the three, three spectrum infrared.

888
00:46:50,267 --> 00:46:52,997
So I don't know, are you familiar with, it sounds like you know, your, in like

889
00:46:52,997 --> 00:46:54,497
a little bit about infrared stuff.

890
00:46:54,887 --> 00:46:55,157
Well,

891
00:46:55,367 --> 00:46:59,267
uh, I'm, I'm just saying I, I've, I've got a traditional sauna at 10 meters that way.

892
00:46:59,267 --> 00:47:01,637
And, uh, you know, the, the one where you pour the water

893
00:47:01,642 --> 00:47:02,687
on the stove and everything?

894
00:47:02,687 --> 00:47:02,747
Yeah.

895
00:47:02,927 --> 00:47:03,767
You don't do that one?

896
00:47:04,247 --> 00:47:05,507
We don't do the stone one.

897
00:47:05,517 --> 00:47:05,807
Okay.

898
00:47:05,827 --> 00:47:10,517
Um, we like it pretty much every gym that that's in my area in California,

899
00:47:10,517 --> 00:47:12,227
they, they do, they do the stone saunas.

900
00:47:12,227 --> 00:47:12,287
Yeah.

901
00:47:12,497 --> 00:47:15,347
And so we actually just have a, a lot more people that

902
00:47:15,347 --> 00:47:16,907
gravitate towards the infrared.

903
00:47:17,207 --> 00:47:18,857
Um, it tends to be a little bit quicker.

904
00:47:18,947 --> 00:47:22,277
Um, you start the infrared light penetrates your body a little quicker,

905
00:47:22,277 --> 00:47:26,582
so you, you tend to get a little, uh, uh, More bang for your buck in

906
00:47:26,582 --> 00:47:28,622
terms of a 15 or 30 minute treatment.

907
00:47:28,627 --> 00:47:28,712
Mm-hmm.

908
00:47:29,402 --> 00:47:32,402
Um, and, and there's some other effects that come along with infrared light,

909
00:47:32,462 --> 00:47:33,992
aside from just the heat benefits.

910
00:47:33,992 --> 00:47:37,982
So, um, now of course this is leading to people getting into cold punches

911
00:47:37,982 --> 00:47:39,512
and all this kind of stuff, so yeah, we

912
00:47:41,132 --> 00:47:43,593
sometime We'll, sounds very good.

913
00:47:44,212 --> 00:47:44,632
I'm sorry

914
00:47:44,872 --> 00:47:47,912
about this next question, Brian, but I can't help myself.

915
00:47:47,972 --> 00:47:51,002
Did they tell you about the placebo effect in psychology class?

916
00:47:53,447 --> 00:47:54,497
They Sure, they sure did.

917
00:47:54,497 --> 00:47:55,817
We, we learned about that a lot.

918
00:47:55,817 --> 00:47:55,997
Yeah.

919
00:47:56,557 --> 00:47:59,567
So you, you're, you're not a, you're not a holistic guy.

920
00:47:59,957 --> 00:48:01,337
You got, we got a fiat killer.

921
00:48:01,577 --> 00:48:02,837
Look, look, uh,

922
00:48:03,047 --> 00:48:04,817
the thing is, I'm skeptic to everything.

923
00:48:04,967 --> 00:48:07,397
So I, I don't believe in alternative medicine.

924
00:48:07,727 --> 00:48:10,377
And for the most part, I don't believe in traditional medicine either.

925
00:48:10,967 --> 00:48:14,507
So, because I think it's all, most of it is placebo.

926
00:48:15,257 --> 00:48:16,367
Fair enough, fair enough.

927
00:48:16,487 --> 00:48:16,727
And

928
00:48:16,727 --> 00:48:20,747
to be fair, the placebo effect works and the nocebo effect works.

929
00:48:20,747 --> 00:48:24,257
And the mind, the mind can do wonderful things for the body.

930
00:48:24,527 --> 00:48:26,857
Uh, that's what I, that's what I believe.

931
00:48:26,927 --> 00:48:31,667
Like, and, uh, if you set your mind to something, uh, that, that's way

932
00:48:31,667 --> 00:48:33,197
more powerful than people believe.

933
00:48:33,407 --> 00:48:37,067
Uh, so that's, that's my sort of holistic approach.

934
00:48:37,157 --> 00:48:38,027
And then the rest is

935
00:48:38,027 --> 00:48:38,777
skepticism.

936
00:48:39,302 --> 00:48:40,712
I mean that, who knows?

937
00:48:40,712 --> 00:48:44,312
I mean, yeah, may, maybe it's a placebo effect in order, but when you come

938
00:48:44,312 --> 00:48:47,822
out to Southern California for Pacific Bitcoin, I'm gonna get you feeling good.

939
00:48:47,822 --> 00:48:49,592
So whether it's your mind playing tricks on you.

940
00:48:49,592 --> 00:48:49,682
Yeah.

941
00:48:52,382 --> 00:48:52,742
Nice.

942
00:48:54,492 --> 00:48:54,712
I'm.

943
00:48:55,547 --> 00:48:58,217
Uh, infrared pill you look looking forward

944
00:48:58,427 --> 00:48:58,487
to.

945
00:48:58,487 --> 00:48:59,237
That's a lot.

946
00:48:59,237 --> 00:49:03,107
But I, I think Finland is a more natural environment for

947
00:49:03,107 --> 00:49:04,967
saunas than Southern California.

948
00:49:04,967 --> 00:49:05,417
For sure.

949
00:49:05,897 --> 00:49:06,407
You got it.

950
00:49:06,407 --> 00:49:07,487
We'll, we'll take that one.

951
00:49:08,127 --> 00:49:10,847
We'll, we'll come to California and see you there, but then you

952
00:49:10,847 --> 00:49:13,517
have to come to Finland and, uh, have a, have a nice proper finish

953
00:49:14,727 --> 00:49:15,077
sauna.

954
00:49:15,387 --> 00:49:15,677
Yeah.

955
00:49:16,137 --> 00:49:16,357
Yes.

956
00:49:17,057 --> 00:49:20,987
And in the finished sauna, you also have to get shit-faced, which is another health

957
00:49:20,987 --> 00:49:23,267
treatment that is, uh, traditionally

958
00:49:23,267 --> 00:49:23,717
finished.

959
00:49:23,717 --> 00:49:23,897
Right?

960
00:49:23,897 --> 00:49:24,018
You do.

961
00:49:24,057 --> 00:49:24,357
Is that

962
00:49:24,357 --> 00:49:28,307
really is that I would never think to drink alcohol and then go on.

963
00:49:28,397 --> 00:49:31,007
To me, that sounds like that would be, that'd be awful.

964
00:49:31,037 --> 00:49:32,507
Is that really part of the tradition?

965
00:49:32,627 --> 00:49:33,917
It's semi mandatory.

966
00:49:33,917 --> 00:49:34,157
Yeah.

967
00:49:35,057 --> 00:49:35,327
Yeah.

968
00:49:35,837 --> 00:49:38,057
With a focus on man, mandatory

969
00:49:39,377 --> 00:49:40,937
wife gets into it too, so, you know.

970
00:49:42,392 --> 00:49:46,022
But, uh, hey, you, you've, you've walked into a little den of us jokers,

971
00:49:46,022 --> 00:49:48,032
uh, picking knits here, but, uh, no.

972
00:49:48,782 --> 00:49:51,572
Matt, while you were saying Brian, about kind of like, what, what you do with

973
00:49:51,572 --> 00:49:54,872
the, with the marketing kind of thing, like I'm, I'm interested in how you, you

974
00:49:54,872 --> 00:50:00,232
take that into, uh, Bitcoin in general, like Bitcoin, I, I think, really does

975
00:50:00,232 --> 00:50:02,612
have a marketing problem generally.

976
00:50:02,612 --> 00:50:04,052
And what's your take on that?

977
00:50:04,052 --> 00:50:07,382
Because I, I, there's, there's so many angles to it.

978
00:50:07,382 --> 00:50:09,452
It's like, does Bitcoin have a scaling problem?

979
00:50:09,457 --> 00:50:11,912
Does Bitcoin have a problem with being too toxic?

980
00:50:11,917 --> 00:50:16,292
All all of these sorts of image things, what's your take on it and,

981
00:50:16,292 --> 00:50:17,912
and how are you trying to address.

982
00:50:18,962 --> 00:50:23,822
All of the issues with within Bitcoin's image, I guess, uh, so to say.

983
00:50:23,822 --> 00:50:24,032
Yeah.

984
00:50:24,152 --> 00:50:24,332
Yeah.

985
00:50:24,332 --> 00:50:24,512
Go.

986
00:50:25,412 --> 00:50:26,312
No, that's a great question.

987
00:50:26,492 --> 00:50:30,362
I think it's just, it comes down to, to sales 1 0 1 and I think that a lot

988
00:50:30,362 --> 00:50:33,242
of Bitcoin purists hate saying, well, we don't need salespeople in Bitcoin.

989
00:50:33,242 --> 00:50:36,072
Well, that was, everybody made fun of me the first day of, of the Miami

990
00:50:36,072 --> 00:50:39,362
conference cuz I was dressed up in a suit and Mateo told me I looked

991
00:50:39,362 --> 00:50:40,742
like I was an insurance salesman.

992
00:50:40,742 --> 00:50:44,552
So, so maybe I'm the guy that doesn't mind looking like the, the salesy person.

993
00:50:44,552 --> 00:50:47,252
But I think that that 1 0 1 of sales.

994
00:50:47,502 --> 00:50:50,892
Is, is asking questions and figuring out where people are.

995
00:50:50,922 --> 00:50:55,092
So I've been able to do, uh, booths at Freedom rallies

996
00:50:55,092 --> 00:50:56,142
here in Southern California.

997
00:50:56,142 --> 00:50:58,632
I mean, we're, we live in California, so we're, you know, we have a

998
00:50:58,632 --> 00:51:01,902
lot of, we have a lot of, uh, people that are tyranny minded.

999
00:51:01,902 --> 00:51:04,632
They love, they love good old Gavin Newsom, but we have a, we have

1000
00:51:04,637 --> 00:51:09,042
pockets of people that love liberty, and for some reason those people

1001
00:51:09,282 --> 00:51:10,602
just don't know about Bitcoin yet.

1002
00:51:10,602 --> 00:51:14,022
It's crazy to me that I, I assume when I go to one of these Liberty rallies and

1003
00:51:14,022 --> 00:51:17,232
I set up a Bitcoin table and I'm just like, here's some information on Bitcoin.

1004
00:51:17,442 --> 00:51:19,002
I figure people are gonna come up and love me.

1005
00:51:19,002 --> 00:51:21,822
But everybody comes up and they're like, this is the market of the beast.

1006
00:51:21,882 --> 00:51:23,622
This is the one world currency of Revel.

1007
00:51:23,712 --> 00:51:24,902
I mean, it is, it is crazy.

1008
00:51:25,042 --> 00:51:26,472
And I'm a Christian Guy.

1009
00:51:26,472 --> 00:51:30,552
I like, I I, I can speak the language, but it's crazy to me that this

1010
00:51:30,552 --> 00:51:35,532
is the reaction people have to it anyways, so it's the, the, the image

1011
00:51:35,532 --> 00:51:37,182
that we have in the Bitcoin space.

1012
00:51:37,532 --> 00:51:39,272
It, it changes from group to group.

1013
00:51:39,482 --> 00:51:42,602
When I go and talk to these, these liberty minded people, and they, they

1014
00:51:42,602 --> 00:51:44,132
wanna know why Bitcoin has value.

1015
00:51:44,312 --> 00:51:49,532
And so me explaining the, the Austrian economic answer of, of market value

1016
00:51:49,532 --> 00:51:53,342
and marginal utility value, like that just falls on deaf ears to them.

1017
00:51:53,672 --> 00:51:53,912
And so,

1018
00:51:53,912 --> 00:51:55,292
subject subjective theory,

1019
00:51:55,292 --> 00:51:56,502
value, subject, subjective.

1020
00:51:56,502 --> 00:51:56,702
Yeah.

1021
00:51:56,702 --> 00:51:57,362
There you go.

1022
00:51:57,362 --> 00:51:57,782
Excuse me.

1023
00:51:58,112 --> 00:52:02,732
Um, so subjective value, it's like th that just falls on deaf ears.

1024
00:52:02,732 --> 00:52:04,622
And so I need to talk about.

1025
00:52:05,012 --> 00:52:06,992
Immutability and censorship resistance.

1026
00:52:06,992 --> 00:52:07,232
Right.

1027
00:52:07,232 --> 00:52:10,742
I immediately will go to, we have to talk about the Canadian trucker rally.

1028
00:52:10,742 --> 00:52:12,602
Like they don't care about scarcity.

1029
00:52:12,632 --> 00:52:14,162
Like, that group doesn't care about scarcity.

1030
00:52:14,162 --> 00:52:16,922
But when I'm talking to my, my stepfather, that's a gold bug.

1031
00:52:17,372 --> 00:52:19,652
Uh, then I need to talk about scarcity.

1032
00:52:19,652 --> 00:52:19,892
Right?

1033
00:52:19,892 --> 00:52:23,912
So I think that that's, I think Bitcoiners just need to be willing and ready to be

1034
00:52:23,912 --> 00:52:26,432
flexible in, in tailoring what we say.

1035
00:52:26,432 --> 00:52:29,162
There's, there's so many components to Bitcoin that I think get

1036
00:52:29,162 --> 00:52:30,992
lost on the general population.

1037
00:52:31,172 --> 00:52:34,232
Um, we geek out on it and we think that, man, there's, there's, there's

1038
00:52:34,232 --> 00:52:36,032
so many things that Bitcoin solves.

1039
00:52:36,037 --> 00:52:38,192
There's so many really interesting facets to it.

1040
00:52:38,197 --> 00:52:42,302
The, the, the difficulty adjustment of Bitcoin mining is, wow, that's such a

1041
00:52:42,512 --> 00:52:46,082
cool innovation that, like if you study Bitcoin mining, this is fascinating, but.

1042
00:52:46,747 --> 00:52:48,517
But my mom doesn't want to hear about that.

1043
00:52:48,577 --> 00:52:50,467
And so how do I appeal to my mom?

1044
00:52:50,467 --> 00:52:54,877
Or how do I appeal, again, back talking to the altcoins, like how do we appeal

1045
00:52:54,882 --> 00:53:00,547
to the Altcoin community when this 21 year old kid got into to Doge because he

1046
00:53:00,547 --> 00:53:03,367
could buy a million Dogecoin for 12 bucks.

1047
00:53:03,372 --> 00:53:05,017
Like how do you, how do you talk to those people?

1048
00:53:05,532 --> 00:53:08,952
And so I think being able to tailor a Bitcoin message for each of

1049
00:53:08,952 --> 00:53:10,032
those people is really important.

1050
00:53:10,032 --> 00:53:11,322
So that's kind of how I wrote the book.

1051
00:53:11,352 --> 00:53:16,752
That's a Bitcoin evangelism is, is here's, here's different, uh, ways to sharpen

1052
00:53:16,757 --> 00:53:19,302
your argument for the Dogecoin guy.

1053
00:53:19,362 --> 00:53:22,422
And that's as easy as telling them about SATs.

1054
00:53:22,692 --> 00:53:25,902
I was pretty shocked at the Bitcoin Miami conference about how many

1055
00:53:26,412 --> 00:53:29,502
crypto people came up and, uh, they said, oh, how much is your book?

1056
00:53:29,502 --> 00:53:31,272
And I said, oh, it's 75,000 SATs.

1057
00:53:31,632 --> 00:53:32,772
And they go, what's a sat?

1058
00:53:33,102 --> 00:53:36,732
And I said, oh, a SAT is a piece of a Bitcoin.

1059
00:53:36,732 --> 00:53:39,792
And here they are at the biggest Bitcoin conference in the world

1060
00:53:40,062 --> 00:53:41,022
and they haven't heard of a sat.

1061
00:53:41,027 --> 00:53:42,913
And guess what I asked this guy, I said, well, what do you do?

1062
00:53:43,222 --> 00:53:45,432
He goes, I work, I work for an exchange.

1063
00:53:46,212 --> 00:53:50,652
And a guy that works for an exchange, he actually makes his living in this space

1064
00:53:50,652 --> 00:53:53,112
somehow didn't understand what a SAT was.

1065
00:53:53,112 --> 00:53:57,722
And so the, the person that wants a lot of something, SAT's appeal

1066
00:53:57,722 --> 00:53:59,702
to them in, in, in, in a major way.

1067
00:53:59,702 --> 00:54:03,212
So I, I think this fundamentally comes down to the argument of, I know

1068
00:54:03,212 --> 00:54:06,812
there's, there's Bitcoin purists that, that say, we, we don't need those

1069
00:54:06,812 --> 00:54:08,522
type of people in the space, right?

1070
00:54:08,522 --> 00:54:11,312
We don't, we don't need the guy that just wants a lot of something.

1071
00:54:11,432 --> 00:54:14,942
If he wants a million Doge, let him have his doge and he can be on his merry way.

1072
00:54:15,072 --> 00:54:19,502
Um, and so I I I, I'm of the belief that I do want those people in the space.

1073
00:54:19,562 --> 00:54:21,872
I want them to, to touch some Bitcoin.

1074
00:54:21,872 --> 00:54:25,982
I want them to touch SATs because I think that that's a gateway drug into them fully

1075
00:54:25,982 --> 00:54:27,812
understanding the, the rest of the space.

1076
00:54:28,172 --> 00:54:31,922
Um, and so I think having an argument or a questions prepared for those

1077
00:54:31,922 --> 00:54:35,522
type of people, a line of reasoning, a logos that appeals to those type of

1078
00:54:35,527 --> 00:54:37,562
people, um, is, is really important.

1079
00:54:37,567 --> 00:54:39,812
And, and that's, again, that's the message of my book.

1080
00:54:39,817 --> 00:54:43,862
And that's, it's, it breaks those different, those different, uh, uh, you

1081
00:54:43,862 --> 00:54:47,102
know, sections down based on different groups of people you might interact with.

1082
00:54:48,152 --> 00:54:48,362
Y

1083
00:54:48,362 --> 00:54:51,782
you know what, Brian, I, I kind of wanna back you up a little bit here on this one

1084
00:54:51,782 --> 00:54:56,927
point too, because, uh, It's not true that someone can't get into crypto and actually

1085
00:54:56,927 --> 00:55:02,057
understand Bitcoin because my, my own journey with it, I, I played around with

1086
00:55:02,117 --> 00:55:07,757
Ethereum for a little bit in 2017 because it's what was going around my office.

1087
00:55:07,757 --> 00:55:12,287
I don't know why my office thought Ethereum was cool, but whatever.

1088
00:55:12,287 --> 00:55:16,397
Like, it's, it's what I heard about and it crashed and I forgot about it.

1089
00:55:16,397 --> 00:55:20,897
And then crypto is going up back in 2021, whatever.

1090
00:55:21,587 --> 00:55:24,977
So, so I check on my Coinbase account and oh my goodness, my $30

1091
00:55:24,977 --> 00:55:26,627
of Ethereum is a lot more money.

1092
00:55:27,347 --> 00:55:28,817
And, and I start playing around with it.

1093
00:55:28,817 --> 00:55:32,297
And I get on like Reddit and, and a bunch of other places.

1094
00:55:32,302 --> 00:55:33,287
Not Twitter, though.

1095
00:55:33,677 --> 00:55:35,207
Twitter, uh, that's probably good.

1096
00:55:35,207 --> 00:55:37,487
Actually at that time I would've gotten into crypto Twitter.

1097
00:55:37,487 --> 00:55:40,727
Not Bitcoin, Twitter, but I got into Reddit and I went to do

1098
00:55:40,732 --> 00:55:42,497
the cryptocurrency sub Reddit.

1099
00:55:42,502 --> 00:55:47,237
And honestly, the only reason that I went into Bitcoin at all was because I kept

1100
00:55:47,237 --> 00:55:50,357
on seeing people say, okay, you gotta have a little bit of Bitcoin because.

1101
00:55:51,557 --> 00:55:52,727
That's kind of the safe thing.

1102
00:55:52,727 --> 00:55:54,137
You gotta have that in your portfolio.

1103
00:55:54,137 --> 00:55:57,827
Whatever I did, I did all the things that a, a new crypto person should do, have

1104
00:55:57,827 --> 00:55:59,717
a balanced portfolio, whatever it is.

1105
00:56:00,137 --> 00:56:02,297
And the, and the thing about it was, I, like, I thought I was

1106
00:56:02,357 --> 00:56:05,537
doing that in a, in a good way.

1107
00:56:05,537 --> 00:56:07,577
And I, I had no idea what Bitcoin was.

1108
00:56:07,967 --> 00:56:08,987
Any idea about it.

1109
00:56:08,987 --> 00:56:11,957
And the, the, the thing was of course, I, I went down the

1110
00:56:11,957 --> 00:56:13,727
bitcoin rabbit hole properly.

1111
00:56:13,727 --> 00:56:16,727
I found proper people that were talking about it in a good way.

1112
00:56:17,267 --> 00:56:22,637
But it, it took that to get me from baseline crypto to Bitcoin.

1113
00:56:23,237 --> 00:56:27,467
And I mean, now I'm a balls deep toxic maxi, like, you know, don't get me wrong.

1114
00:56:27,677 --> 00:56:31,517
But, but the, the, the thing here is that like I, it really, you, you can

1115
00:56:31,517 --> 00:56:35,147
be super ignorant about Bitcoin and be, and still be into crypto otherwise.

1116
00:56:35,147 --> 00:56:35,387
Mm-hmm.

1117
00:56:35,472 --> 00:56:39,827
And even be into having some Bitcoin in your portfolio just because it's

1118
00:56:39,827 --> 00:56:41,297
the so-called blue chip or something.

1119
00:56:41,297 --> 00:56:41,747
So, yeah.

1120
00:56:41,747 --> 00:56:46,187
I, I, I think it, I think it is important to, to try and bridge that

1121
00:56:46,217 --> 00:56:47,307
gap to the, to the crypto people.

1122
00:56:48,062 --> 00:56:48,422
Yeah.

1123
00:56:48,482 --> 00:56:53,162
Uh, well, just to clarify what I was saying before, I think the creators of

1124
00:56:53,162 --> 00:56:56,822
the share coins all know about Bitcoin, not, not the people buying them.

1125
00:56:56,912 --> 00:57:00,332
That's, that's, uh, most people buying them have no clue.

1126
00:57:00,542 --> 00:57:05,252
Like, uh, they wouldn't be buying them if they had, it's like, like, uh,

1127
00:57:05,257 --> 00:57:09,032
socialists who, who, who understood economics wouldn't be socialist.

1128
00:57:09,032 --> 00:57:10,022
It's about the same thing.

1129
00:57:10,112 --> 00:57:10,322
Right.

1130
00:57:13,542 --> 00:57:14,612
I, I have a question for you.

1131
00:57:14,612 --> 00:57:17,862
I brought this up the other night, and, uh, it was, yeah, I just,

1132
00:57:17,902 --> 00:57:20,432
I think it's, it's a fascinating thought experiment for me.

1133
00:57:20,432 --> 00:57:22,172
It's like I, me, me trying to really learn.

1134
00:57:22,622 --> 00:57:29,402
So if we go back to, to, to January of 2009, would you consider

1135
00:57:29,972 --> 00:57:31,472
Bitcoin a shit coin at that point?

1136
00:57:32,447 --> 00:57:35,867
Was was, was there, was there certain markers or is there a certain point

1137
00:57:35,867 --> 00:57:40,067
where, where bitcoin maybe was a shit coin and it no longer is, or

1138
00:57:40,127 --> 00:57:41,567
how, how, how would you define that?

1139
00:57:42,227 --> 00:57:42,527
Yeah.

1140
00:57:42,767 --> 00:57:47,027
I, I wasn't aware of Bitcoin in 2009, so, so I have no

1141
00:57:47,027 --> 00:57:49,067
like, personal story with that.

1142
00:57:49,072 --> 00:57:51,167
But when I discovered Bitcoin, I was skeptic.

1143
00:57:52,597 --> 00:57:58,387
and then I took a course about digital currencies in the plural form, and I

1144
00:57:58,387 --> 00:58:03,337
got to understand like the basics of the elliptic curve, cryptography and

1145
00:58:03,342 --> 00:58:04,687
all of this and the maths behind it.

1146
00:58:04,687 --> 00:58:07,867
And I, uh, studied quite a lot of maths in my life.

1147
00:58:07,872 --> 00:58:12,307
So, so I understand stuff like that fairly, fairly easily.

1148
00:58:13,247 --> 00:58:18,647
what what always puzzled me though was like, uh, if there's, if the thing is

1149
00:58:18,647 --> 00:58:23,492
that, uh, If the value proposition has something to do with this thing being

1150
00:58:23,492 --> 00:58:29,672
finite, how then can we create, how, how could copies of it ever work then?

1151
00:58:29,912 --> 00:58:34,862
Because all of it is, it's a number on a computer, so making copies of that, it's

1152
00:58:34,867 --> 00:58:36,872
just like you can make infinite copies.

1153
00:58:36,872 --> 00:58:41,342
It's like the, the regression there.

1154
00:58:41,552 --> 00:58:45,422
I I, I never, I never bought that, that narrative.

1155
00:58:45,842 --> 00:58:50,372
So, but, but, but then again, I was still skeptic towards Bitcoin be,

1156
00:58:50,582 --> 00:58:57,732
because to me, like either, I always thought either Bitcoin work, either

1157
00:58:57,962 --> 00:58:59,492
Bitcoin works or none of it works.

1158
00:59:00,752 --> 00:59:01,652
Uh, so.

1159
00:59:02,177 --> 00:59:06,047
And I'm sort of still there because there's, there's a small chance

1160
00:59:06,047 --> 00:59:10,547
that Bitcoin, for some odd reason, that I can't foresee will just

1161
00:59:10,607 --> 00:59:12,497
break down and not function anymore.

1162
00:59:13,037 --> 00:59:18,107
But if that happens, I'm still happy because I have this fantastic network of

1163
00:59:18,112 --> 00:59:24,287
people, uh, honest people around the world that I, that I, I know people, the best

1164
00:59:24,287 --> 00:59:26,777
people on every continent at this point.

1165
00:59:26,867 --> 00:59:30,107
But, uh, so, so it was all worth it anyway.

1166
00:59:30,647 --> 00:59:33,707
Having, having said that though, the, the thing that really convinced

1167
00:59:33,707 --> 00:59:38,977
me about Bitcoin being sufficiently decentralized to actually pull off rules

1168
00:59:38,977 --> 00:59:45,767
without rulers was during the, the, when the seg two x hard fork was denied.

1169
00:59:46,457 --> 00:59:50,567
Because for, for those you that don't know, there's a quite a good book

1170
00:59:50,567 --> 00:59:52,817
called The Block Size Wars about this.

1171
00:59:53,027 --> 00:59:56,327
Uh, I do not agree with that description of events.

1172
00:59:57,512 --> 01:00:02,252
Fully, but I say I agree with like 80% of the description of what happened

1173
01:00:02,252 --> 01:00:07,112
in that book, uh, that the guy who wrote it is still sort of trying to

1174
01:00:07,112 --> 01:00:11,582
keep this, that what we did might have been wrong and what the other

1175
01:00:11,582 --> 01:00:13,232
side might have had some merit to it.

1176
01:00:13,292 --> 01:00:19,112
I view it a slightly differently because, so there was an upgrade

1177
01:00:19,382 --> 01:00:23,462
Bitcoin called Segregated Witness, which all the users wanted because that

1178
01:00:23,462 --> 01:00:27,032
would enable the Lightning Network in the future and, and stuff like that.

1179
01:00:27,512 --> 01:00:33,043
So everyone sort of wanted that except for a few, Well, very wealthy players

1180
01:00:33,223 --> 01:00:39,356
who, uh, who, um, could make more money from, from mining if, if SegWit wasn't

1181
01:00:39,361 --> 01:00:42,236
there to, to give the short version here.

1182
01:00:42,236 --> 01:00:45,476
There was something called ASIC Boost, which SegWit would sort

1183
01:00:45,476 --> 01:00:49,856
of deny, and this debates of whether that was ever used or not.

1184
01:00:50,246 --> 01:00:53,126
And I'm not the most technical person, so I don't, I wouldn't

1185
01:00:53,546 --> 01:00:55,136
want to go too deep into that.

1186
01:00:55,616 --> 01:00:59,636
But then, uh, there was a big, uh, cabal of the biggest.

1187
01:00:59,906 --> 01:01:03,656
Biggest companies in Bitcoin at the time, uh, gathering in New York,

1188
01:01:03,866 --> 01:01:08,456
uh, to form an agreement on the, the, the roadmap for the future.

1189
01:01:08,456 --> 01:01:09,266
What, what to do.

1190
01:01:09,266 --> 01:01:13,856
And they decided that we're, we're first going to implement SEG and then increase

1191
01:01:14,306 --> 01:01:16,016
the block size by a hundred percent.

1192
01:01:16,886 --> 01:01:20,546
Uh, so the second hard fork was called, or, or Segway itself was

1193
01:01:20,546 --> 01:01:22,016
not a hard fork, it was a soft fork.

1194
01:01:22,526 --> 01:01:26,936
But then there was a proposed so, uh, hard fork called SEG two X, which

1195
01:01:26,936 --> 01:01:31,616
would, uh, increase the block size, double the block size, uh, because

1196
01:01:31,621 --> 01:01:33,926
fees were getting high in 2017.

1197
01:01:34,346 --> 01:01:36,747
Also, uh, similar to what's happening now.

1198
01:01:37,496 --> 01:01:43,646
And, uh, it's kind of fascinating how the narratives from 2017

1199
01:01:43,646 --> 01:01:44,936
seem to repeat themselves.

1200
01:01:44,936 --> 01:01:48,596
Now this, you know, documents on the blockchain and all, all this

1201
01:01:48,596 --> 01:01:52,436
stuff that was going on back then too, and it was proven wrong and,

1202
01:01:52,586 --> 01:01:54,596
you know, discard that and move on.

1203
01:01:54,926 --> 01:02:01,646
So, so, uh, but anyway, um, The, the two x hard fork never happened

1204
01:02:01,646 --> 01:02:03,086
because the users didn't want it.

1205
01:02:03,086 --> 01:02:07,826
All the nodes signaled the, or a sufficient amount of nodes signaled

1206
01:02:07,826 --> 01:02:09,326
that they didn't want this upgrade.

1207
01:02:09,716 --> 01:02:14,636
So after a while, the mi, the miners who had, like, they were

1208
01:02:14,636 --> 01:02:20,156
sitting on like 99% of the wealth in Bitcoin, uh, at least the fee at 12.

1209
01:02:20,666 --> 01:02:26,546
Uh, and, and they, they still had to bow down to whatever the users

1210
01:02:26,546 --> 01:02:30,386
wanted because they knew if they, if they wouldn't do what the, the node

1211
01:02:30,386 --> 01:02:34,616
runners told them to, to do, they would've, uh, they would've lost

1212
01:02:34,616 --> 01:02:37,766
their business completely because Bill Bitcoin would've failed at that point.

1213
01:02:38,366 --> 01:02:45,532
So, so the, the hard fork never happened, which to me was, was proof enough, that,

1214
01:02:45,772 --> 01:02:53,902
that, uh, The, the users were actually in control, or, or rather, the, everyone in

1215
01:02:53,902 --> 01:03:00,502
the network was in control and it, it was resistance resistant to change in, in that

1216
01:03:00,502 --> 01:03:05,242
crucial way that was needed because what, what the two x hard for would've done is

1217
01:03:05,452 --> 01:03:07,492
that it would've set the precedent for.

1218
01:03:08,977 --> 01:03:12,727
Hard forks like that happening over and over again in the future.

1219
01:03:13,387 --> 01:03:16,447
So then they could have just doubled the block size and doubled it and doubled

1220
01:03:16,447 --> 01:03:21,397
it and doubled it, which in the long run leads to people not, not being

1221
01:03:21,397 --> 01:03:23,137
able to afford to run their own nodes.

1222
01:03:23,767 --> 01:03:26,447
And when people do, do not afford to run their own nodes, because

1223
01:03:26,447 --> 01:03:31,447
they're, they need these giant hard drives, uh, which are costly.

1224
01:03:31,987 --> 01:03:35,197
Uh, then Bitcoin is not decentralized anymore.

1225
01:03:35,257 --> 01:03:42,787
And then, uh, then they're a small elite forms that can make

1226
01:03:42,787 --> 01:03:44,047
decisions for everyone else.

1227
01:03:44,267 --> 01:03:47,017
Uh, so it becomes much more vulnerable to text.

1228
01:03:47,410 --> 01:03:54,460
so, so that's the denial of two x was when bitcoin, when I discovered

1229
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,730
Bitcoin because I, I think all of this is a personal journey.

1230
01:03:57,730 --> 01:03:59,800
hyperbitcoinization is a personal thing.

1231
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:03,100
The discovery of Bitcoin is a, is a personal thing.

1232
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:06,430
It wasn't created by Satoshi.

1233
01:04:06,430 --> 01:04:08,420
It emerged from the community.

1234
01:04:08,950 --> 01:04:14,020
That was a product of Satoshi's actions, but also of other people's actions.

1235
01:04:14,620 --> 01:04:19,690
And the white paper is just a tiny part of Bitcoin's history and how

1236
01:04:19,690 --> 01:04:24,070
it emerges from smaller parts in, into becoming this bigger thing.

1237
01:04:24,340 --> 01:04:28,330
Um, yeah, so, so that's the way I view it.

1238
01:04:28,420 --> 01:04:33,655
Um, And, uh, that's, that's the story of how I got.

1239
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,600
How I got to a point in the rabbit hole where I couldn't

1240
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:39,970
climb up of it's out it again.

1241
01:04:40,180 --> 01:04:43,900
Um, the seg two x hard fork failing.

1242
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:48,850
It's, yeah, it's fascinating how something failing could, could be so compelling.

1243
01:04:48,855 --> 01:04:52,690
But yeah, I, I agree that, that, that seemed like a pretty, a pretty, uh,

1244
01:04:52,695 --> 01:04:56,290
substantial moment in the history of Bitcoin and yeah, probably if you had

1245
01:04:56,290 --> 01:04:59,320
to point to, to one period of time that.

1246
01:04:59,745 --> 01:05:05,625
Showed Bitcoin's resilience was, was that because I think that it was really

1247
01:05:05,630 --> 01:05:09,855
easy to gravitate towards the Segway two x for a lot of people, which, you know,

1248
01:05:09,855 --> 01:05:14,445
ended up being Bitcoin cash because the, the, their, their ar their arguments

1249
01:05:14,450 --> 01:05:18,766
sat, anybody that had a kind of a fiat mindset would've gravitated towards that.

1250
01:05:19,005 --> 01:05:19,275
Right.

1251
01:05:19,515 --> 01:05:23,475
Faster, faster transactions and, you know Yeah.

1252
01:05:23,535 --> 01:05:26,265
More profitability and, you know, they, all the, all the arguments

1253
01:05:26,265 --> 01:05:28,995
they were making were, were, were sounded very compelling if you

1254
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:33,165
had a, uh, a, a short time horizon or, or a high time preference.

1255
01:05:33,495 --> 01:05:37,645
Um, the, the de node operators through that process really kind of took the,

1256
01:05:37,905 --> 01:05:40,995
the long view and like you said, said we're gonna keep the block size, the

1257
01:05:40,995 --> 01:05:45,135
block size smaller so that we can continue to run these nodes so that

1258
01:05:45,135 --> 01:05:49,605
people don't have to outsource these to Amazon web services or what, whatever.

1259
01:05:49,965 --> 01:05:50,235
So,

1260
01:05:51,670 --> 01:05:52,030
Yeah.

1261
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:57,700
Um, I, I replied to a, a, uh, clip of Eric Weinstein, uh, talking

1262
01:05:57,700 --> 01:05:58,960
about Bitcoin this morning.

1263
01:05:59,530 --> 01:06:06,220
Uh, and how I disagreed with, with almost everything he said, uh, be because

1264
01:06:06,220 --> 01:06:09,660
I felt I, I had to because someone was wrong on the internet, you know?

1265
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:15,400
So he said, first, he said that you are all here because of a white paper.

1266
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:19,270
I mean, uh, I'd love to have Eric Weinstein on the pod someday.

1267
01:06:19,270 --> 01:06:23,440
I, I, I, I like the guy a lot, and this is nothing personal against him, but this

1268
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:27,070
is just a reply to his points because I think I have a different perspective.

1269
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:30,160
He said that we're, we're all here because of a white paper,

1270
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:31,960
which I don't think is true.

1271
01:06:32,050 --> 01:06:37,510
Like the white paper is only, uh, a tiny part of, of Bitcoin's history, as I said.

1272
01:06:37,630 --> 01:06:42,730
And, uh, then, then he said, uh, Uh, we, we need to stop

1273
01:06:42,730 --> 01:06:44,740
pretending that Bitcoin is perfect.

1274
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:48,430
And what he misses there is that Bitcoin never needed to be perfect.

1275
01:06:48,460 --> 01:06:50,830
It just needed to be good enough to last forever.

1276
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:52,960
Which of my is one of my favorites?

1277
01:06:53,020 --> 01:06:54,220
Tomer Strolight quotes.

1278
01:06:54,730 --> 01:06:56,230
Uh, so that's the thing.

1279
01:06:56,230 --> 01:07:01,000
Uh, you, you reach this point where it's good enough and then that lasts forever.

1280
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:01,810
And that's the point.

1281
01:07:01,810 --> 01:07:04,210
It doesn't change like it sies.

1282
01:07:04,570 --> 01:07:08,650
Uh, so, and, and then he said that we still need to innovate.

1283
01:07:08,650 --> 01:07:12,220
Innovation is, uh, crucial to this surviving, and it's not,

1284
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:16,660
uh, lack of innovation is, in a way, resistance to change is way

1285
01:07:16,660 --> 01:07:17,980
more important than innovation.

1286
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:22,180
We can innovate, innovate on layers on top of it, and we can in, but

1287
01:07:22,420 --> 01:07:26,350
we want the base layer to stay as static as absolutely possible.

1288
01:07:26,980 --> 01:07:31,300
So, so, uh, and then says in order to, to, uh, for.

1289
01:07:33,010 --> 01:07:37,780
To, to provide societal freedom and not only personal freedom, and I think

1290
01:07:37,780 --> 01:07:42,430
that's oxymoronic because I think society is made out of a people and personal

1291
01:07:42,430 --> 01:07:47,380
freedom is like, you can't have societal freedoms without personal freedoms.

1292
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:47,870
Right.

1293
01:07:48,370 --> 01:07:50,050
It always starts with individual.

1294
01:07:50,380 --> 01:07:55,000
I'm an anarchist or Konsensus, so, so there's no societal freedom

1295
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,160
without individual freedoms first.

1296
01:07:57,880 --> 01:07:58,150
Yeah.

1297
01:07:58,210 --> 01:08:03,430
And, and then he says like, uh, uh, uh, claims that Bitcoin is, uh, you know,

1298
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:08,740
if people know you have Bitcoin, they can come home and, and do the $5 or $20

1299
01:08:08,740 --> 01:08:12,820
wrench attack and, and, and threaten you and take all your stuff, but.

1300
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:14,590
What he misses there.

1301
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:18,670
Uh, this sounds like an attack on Eric, but it isn't, it's really just

1302
01:08:18,675 --> 01:08:22,390
replying to these points because I think there's, there's a lot of confusion here.

1303
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:28,840
The, the thing is, you are being attacked right now with a, with a very cheap

1304
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:33,820
wrench at all times because someone is allowed to run a money printer.

1305
01:08:34,090 --> 01:08:34,210
Mm-hmm.

1306
01:08:34,450 --> 01:08:38,110
And all further on top of that, you, you need to pay taxes,

1307
01:08:38,110 --> 01:08:39,400
otherwise you go to jail.

1308
01:08:39,405 --> 01:08:39,730
Mm-hmm.

1309
01:08:39,820 --> 01:08:41,170
So this is already happening.

1310
01:08:41,530 --> 01:08:42,760
Fiat has that problem with.

1311
01:08:43,865 --> 01:08:46,595
Bitcoin makes violence way less profitable.

1312
01:08:46,745 --> 01:08:46,835
Mm-hmm.

1313
01:08:47,075 --> 01:08:50,915
Because when you cannot know when, uh, how much another person has, or,

1314
01:08:50,915 --> 01:08:54,755
and you cannot take it, uh, by force very easily because the person can

1315
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:57,485
give up a fraction of their Bitcoin and not tell you about the rest.

1316
01:08:57,575 --> 01:08:57,635
Yeah.

1317
01:08:58,235 --> 01:09:02,195
The, the, the better choice for you as the attacker is to just provide

1318
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:04,655
something of value to the person and get something of value back.

1319
01:09:05,225 --> 01:09:09,335
So, so it, it moves the shelling point of violence in that, in that sense.

1320
01:09:10,295 --> 01:09:13,085
And Fiat does not, Fiat does the opposite.

1321
01:09:13,090 --> 01:09:18,215
It's, it's extremely easy to take stuff from people in fiat, especially if

1322
01:09:18,220 --> 01:09:19,915
they have credit cards and debit cards.

1323
01:09:20,355 --> 01:09:22,725
Tracking every single payment they do.

1324
01:09:22,995 --> 01:09:28,725
Then a centralized authority has all the information, uh, a about

1325
01:09:28,725 --> 01:09:30,735
all of your financial transactions.

1326
01:09:30,735 --> 01:09:35,805
They, they, they can and are being violent to you and

1327
01:09:35,805 --> 01:09:37,665
stealing your stuff all the time.

1328
01:09:37,785 --> 01:09:40,725
So you're not, you're not living in peace.

1329
01:09:40,755 --> 01:09:44,115
You're, you are living in a, in a perpetual war mm-hmm.

1330
01:09:44,445 --> 01:09:46,185
That the government wages against you.

1331
01:09:46,225 --> 01:09:46,515
Yeah.

1332
01:09:46,695 --> 01:09:48,345
You're being violated against.

1333
01:09:49,130 --> 01:09:53,030
Every single microsecond because someone has a mic, uh, a money printer.

1334
01:09:53,390 --> 01:09:56,330
That's the main reason, and that's the problem that Bitcoin solves.

1335
01:09:56,570 --> 01:09:57,890
So yeah, just wanted

1336
01:09:57,890 --> 01:10:02,360
to ramp there for what their, their vi their violence doesn't need to be perfect.

1337
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:03,770
It just needs to last forever.

1338
01:10:03,775 --> 01:10:03,860
Right.

1339
01:10:03,930 --> 01:10:04,420
Exactly.

1340
01:10:04,420 --> 01:10:06,141
And that's what Exactly, and that's what they've done.

1341
01:10:06,370 --> 01:10:08,340
They've figured out full of violence.

1342
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:08,900
Yeah.

1343
01:10:08,905 --> 01:10:12,020
That, that, that's just perpetual and it's below the surface and it's

1344
01:10:12,020 --> 01:10:16,850
constantly simmering, not below the balance, best riding the nads.

1345
01:10:17,780 --> 01:10:20,690
Um, so, but yeah, I mean, to your point, I think this is one of the

1346
01:10:20,690 --> 01:10:23,870
most compelling things that Yeah, when I, I find that this is a more

1347
01:10:23,870 --> 01:10:27,440
interesting talking point for the, the gold bug or the fiat minded person

1348
01:10:27,740 --> 01:10:29,780
that maybe is a little bit wealthier.

1349
01:10:29,990 --> 01:10:31,820
They said, well, yeah, $5 wrench attack.

1350
01:10:31,820 --> 01:10:35,240
I like that you've added the inflation into the wrench attacks and now it's $20.

1351
01:10:35,570 --> 01:10:39,740
Um, but, but yeah, they say, well, if somebody puts a gun to my head,

1352
01:10:40,065 --> 01:10:43,485
All my, they, they know that all my Bitcoin could just be on, you

1353
01:10:43,485 --> 01:10:45,195
know, my, my seed signer somewhere.

1354
01:10:45,435 --> 01:10:47,175
And I said, yeah, you know, I'll bring up the points.

1355
01:10:47,175 --> 01:10:51,495
Like you said, well, of course you need to have your, your, your dummy one, right?

1356
01:10:51,500 --> 01:10:53,805
You need to have your one that has a thousand dollars worth of

1357
01:10:53,805 --> 01:10:56,955
Bitcoin or what, you know, has, has two, 2 million satoshis on it.

1358
01:10:56,955 --> 01:10:57,496
You give that one over.

1359
01:10:57,705 --> 01:10:59,985
So obviously there's, there's, there's things that you can put into

1360
01:10:59,985 --> 01:11:03,765
your, your, your protection plan, but they need to understand that.

1361
01:11:04,340 --> 01:11:08,300
It doesn't make sense to rob somebody for Bitcoin in the same way that it would

1362
01:11:08,300 --> 01:11:11,360
make sense if you have a safe in your house with a hundred thousand dollars

1363
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:16,310
of fiat, uh, that that actually could be a very lucrative, lucrative theft.

1364
01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:16,610
Right?

1365
01:11:16,730 --> 01:11:19,970
They're actually incentivized to kill me because as soon as they pull the trigger

1366
01:11:19,970 --> 01:11:24,350
on that gun, they have an unlimited amount of time to search through my property

1367
01:11:24,350 --> 01:11:27,590
or search through my residence to find that safe that's under the floorboards.

1368
01:11:27,590 --> 01:11:31,010
They will given enough time, they will eventually find that safe and

1369
01:11:31,010 --> 01:11:32,480
they'll be able to extract that value.

1370
01:11:32,690 --> 01:11:36,290
But if they have a gun to my head and I never gave them my seed phrase,

1371
01:11:36,620 --> 01:11:40,410
then they've automatically lost the ability to access my funds.

1372
01:11:40,430 --> 01:11:44,390
So them pulling the trigger, disqualifies them from being able to

1373
01:11:44,420 --> 01:11:48,620
perform that theft in the same way that it actually frees them to roam

1374
01:11:48,620 --> 01:11:52,730
my property, to find my funds in, in, in a fiat sense or in a gold sense.

1375
01:11:52,730 --> 01:11:54,080
If I have a stash of gold in my house.

1376
01:11:54,085 --> 01:11:54,920
It's the same thing.

1377
01:11:55,190 --> 01:11:58,610
And so, uh, Bitcoin has this built in protection that.

1378
01:11:59,475 --> 01:12:03,675
I'm the, as soon as you blow my brains, my brains were the only thing that,

1379
01:12:03,675 --> 01:12:05,535
that, that had access to those coins.

1380
01:12:06,375 --> 01:12:06,645
Yeah.

1381
01:12:06,645 --> 01:12:10,185
And uh, at the end of the day, all of the bitcoins are in someone's head.

1382
01:12:10,755 --> 01:12:14,925
It's all about keeping a secret, like the seed phrase, if you broadcasted

1383
01:12:14,925 --> 01:12:18,975
the sec seed phrase, put it on TV or at a billboard somewhere, the

1384
01:12:18,975 --> 01:12:23,055
Bitcoin would disappear pretty quickly because someone would figure it out.

1385
01:12:23,535 --> 01:12:28,455
But to even know that a seed phrase is a seed phrase, you can hide them in a poem,

1386
01:12:28,485 --> 01:12:33,625
for instance, or like, they're, they're such a, We've just be begun to scratch

1387
01:12:33,625 --> 01:12:37,975
the surface of how to do Bitcoin security because there's, there's so many ways of

1388
01:12:37,975 --> 01:12:39,895
keeping a secret, and that's all it is.

1389
01:12:39,985 --> 01:12:41,935
It's all about just keeping a secret.

1390
01:12:42,445 --> 01:12:45,565
And you can keep one secret, you can keep many secrets, but at the

1391
01:12:45,565 --> 01:12:49,195
end of the day, all Bitcoin's rec reside within a person's head.

1392
01:12:49,615 --> 01:12:53,375
Uh, or a couple of persons had a couple of people's heads, right?

1393
01:12:54,145 --> 01:12:58,225
So that's all it is, and that's, that's what makes it so much more resilient

1394
01:12:58,225 --> 01:13:03,145
to violence than physical things, because physical things are, Physical.

1395
01:13:03,515 --> 01:13:03,935
Mm-hmm.

1396
01:13:04,045 --> 01:13:05,185
This is not physical.

1397
01:13:05,190 --> 01:13:06,115
This is in your brain.

1398
01:13:06,115 --> 01:13:06,205
Yes.

1399
01:13:06,445 --> 01:13:07,495
It's a different thing.

1400
01:13:07,495 --> 01:13:11,155
It's in the intellectual realm, not in the realm of physical violence.

1401
01:13:11,545 --> 01:13:11,815
Right.

1402
01:13:12,055 --> 01:13:15,535
And everybody has intellect where not everybody has physical strength or

1403
01:13:15,535 --> 01:13:17,365
physical means to protect themselves.

1404
01:13:17,365 --> 01:13:21,385
So it's, it's literally the most equalizing type of, of, of property

1405
01:13:21,385 --> 01:13:24,445
that you can have because everybody has the ability to secure that.

1406
01:13:24,775 --> 01:13:28,165
It's the only, I believe you've said this before, it's the only true property Right.

1407
01:13:28,170 --> 01:13:31,465
That that could ever exist because they can't be taken by physical force.

1408
01:13:31,765 --> 01:13:35,185
Um, and, and, and Luke, to your, to your earlier question about, uh,

1409
01:13:35,215 --> 01:13:39,535
marketing, I think, I think that one of the things that, um, I found was a,

1410
01:13:39,535 --> 01:13:44,755
was an early, um, boost in the shot, uh, or, you know, boost in the arm of,

1411
01:13:44,755 --> 01:13:47,785
of my book sales and kind of got, when I was starting to do my book tour,

1412
01:13:47,935 --> 01:13:49,555
people were, were fascinated by my book.

1413
01:13:49,555 --> 01:13:50,965
They'd never heard my name before.

1414
01:13:51,205 --> 01:13:54,535
And so, you know, how, how am I gonna sell a book to people if they don't know who

1415
01:13:54,540 --> 01:13:55,975
I am or they don't know my background?

1416
01:13:56,185 --> 01:13:58,496
So what I did was I actually hid a seed phrase.

1417
01:13:58,955 --> 01:14:03,335
In the early copies of my book, and I said that here, this is meant to be a lesson.

1418
01:14:03,335 --> 01:14:06,605
There's, there's 12 words hidden throughout the book, and the first

1419
01:14:06,605 --> 01:14:08,735
person that finds it wins 5 million sets.

1420
01:14:09,065 --> 01:14:14,155
And so I want people to understand that, that it, yes, it, Bitcoin

1421
01:14:14,435 --> 01:14:15,935
is about keeping a secret.

1422
01:14:16,145 --> 01:14:16,715
You can even.

1423
01:14:17,650 --> 01:14:19,420
Be kind of loose with that secret.

1424
01:14:19,420 --> 01:14:22,090
I can try to give that secret out to the world, but unless

1425
01:14:22,090 --> 01:14:25,780
you, like here, I promise you those 12 words are in this book.

1426
01:14:25,930 --> 01:14:29,290
But unless you know how to find them, it's still a secret.

1427
01:14:29,290 --> 01:14:31,660
And so even by putting that out publicly, like you said,

1428
01:14:31,660 --> 01:14:32,740
you could hide it in a poem.

1429
01:14:32,860 --> 01:14:33,790
I hid it in my book.

1430
01:14:33,970 --> 01:14:35,170
My, my, my daughter.

1431
01:14:35,175 --> 01:14:40,630
She, uh, she has this, uh, fun way of, of her, her seed phrase is written down.

1432
01:14:40,630 --> 01:14:41,890
I, I won't tell you the exact method.

1433
01:14:42,340 --> 01:14:47,410
Methodology, of course, but she, she wrote a, uh, a poem in crayon that she

1434
01:14:47,410 --> 01:14:52,120
keeps in her safe and will say every, every fifth word is her seed phrase.

1435
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:54,880
And it just looks like a child's poem written in crayon.

1436
01:14:55,060 --> 01:14:58,510
But it's, it's all of her, you know, it's her, you know, 50,000 SATs she

1437
01:14:58,510 --> 01:15:01,750
owns or whatever it is, and it's, it's her way of securing that.

1438
01:15:01,750 --> 01:15:04,080
And it's so fun to talk to children about.

1439
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:07,940
Securing a seed phrase and, and, and just here, here, this is why it matters.

1440
01:15:07,940 --> 01:15:08,720
It's the secret.

1441
01:15:08,900 --> 01:15:10,850
This is something that you can keep and you don't have

1442
01:15:10,850 --> 01:15:12,080
to tell mom and dad about it.

1443
01:15:12,380 --> 01:15:17,360
Um, she came up with this own interesting way of securing her seed phrase, uh, that,

1444
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:18,740
that I, that I wouldn't have thought of.

1445
01:15:18,950 --> 01:15:22,100
Um, and so she, she even told me, she goes, yeah, if somebody were to,

1446
01:15:22,105 --> 01:15:25,490
to break into my safe, if my brother was to break into my safe, he would

1447
01:15:25,490 --> 01:15:27,950
see this and he would just think it was a story that I wrote down,

1448
01:15:27,950 --> 01:15:29,000
or it was a poem that I wrote down.

1449
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:30,980
He wouldn't even know that it was my seed phrase, you know,

1450
01:15:30,980 --> 01:15:31,850
tho those types of things.

1451
01:15:31,850 --> 01:15:35,570
So it's, uh, it's very fascinating talking to children and see how when

1452
01:15:35,570 --> 01:15:39,410
they, when they start to grasp Bitcoin, what are the, the innovations in

1453
01:15:39,415 --> 01:15:42,530
Bitcoin aren't, like you said, don't need to happen at the base layer.

1454
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:44,360
They need to happen at the intellectual layer.

1455
01:15:44,570 --> 01:15:47,270
Our children are gonna have more layer.

1456
01:15:47,590 --> 01:15:48,850
The social layer, right?

1457
01:15:48,850 --> 01:15:49,150
Yeah.

1458
01:15:49,155 --> 01:15:49,380
Yeah.

1459
01:15:49,390 --> 01:15:51,010
So, so, so yeah.

1460
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:55,870
In a way, it's safer to keep the seed phrase outta the safe than in

1461
01:15:55,875 --> 01:16:00,700
the safe, because if, if there's a safe, so that implies that there's

1462
01:16:00,705 --> 01:16:02,410
something valuable in the safe.

1463
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:07,810
If, if the, if it's just a poem on a, in, in some notebook somewhere,

1464
01:16:08,410 --> 01:16:10,330
then no one, no one will ever know.

1465
01:16:10,330 --> 01:16:12,340
Like they, they don't even know what they're looking for.

1466
01:16:12,850 --> 01:16:12,940
Yeah.

1467
01:16:12,940 --> 01:16:13,960
So, so that's the thing.

1468
01:16:14,620 --> 01:16:18,070
And I just realized I can make a lot of people do a lot of stupid stuff by

1469
01:16:18,070 --> 01:16:23,260
claiming that there's 12 words hidden in each and every one of my books.

1470
01:16:23,890 --> 01:16:26,470
And I stored about a hundred big bitcoins in each.

1471
01:16:28,660 --> 01:16:29,590
There may or may

1472
01:16:29,590 --> 01:16:30,160
not be.

1473
01:16:33,410 --> 01:16:33,700
Yeah.

1474
01:16:33,700 --> 01:16:33,940
Yeah.

1475
01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:36,460
There's not, don't believe him.

1476
01:16:38,020 --> 01:16:38,620
So good one.

1477
01:16:38,625 --> 01:16:39,070
Brian.

1478
01:16:40,480 --> 01:16:43,300
Has anyone found, I guess no one has found them yet.

1479
01:16:43,690 --> 01:16:44,530
Somebody found it.

1480
01:16:44,530 --> 01:16:45,430
It took about six months.

1481
01:16:45,790 --> 01:16:46,000
Yeah.

1482
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:46,480
Oh yeah.

1483
01:16:46,480 --> 01:16:46,720
Alright.

1484
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:48,130
I made it pretty complicated too.

1485
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:51,340
Um, it was a, it was a woman from the, the, that I met at the BEEF Initiative.

1486
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:54,340
She, she found it nice and yeah, it was, uh, it was good.

1487
01:16:54,340 --> 01:16:54,610
So.

1488
01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:55,960
Excellent.

1489
01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:56,620
Excellent.

1490
01:16:56,860 --> 01:16:58,690
Did you hear about Michael Dunworth?

1491
01:16:58,690 --> 01:17:00,760
Uh, the Peter Dunworth brother?

1492
01:17:00,820 --> 01:17:05,080
Uh, my Australian friends, uh, he, no.

1493
01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:10,500
Michael sent a Bitcoin to the future, to the year 2,140.

1494
01:17:11,375 --> 01:17:16,120
Uh, uh, time locked it and, oh, the, the key is, is on the

1495
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:17,530
internet for everyone to see.

1496
01:17:18,220 --> 01:17:23,260
So anyone who claims that in 2,140 gets an, an entire Bitcoin, whereas like a

1497
01:17:23,260 --> 01:17:25,870
couple of cities, uh, gosh, at that point,

1498
01:17:27,430 --> 01:17:28,050
that's amazing.

1499
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:29,090
It's right.

1500
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:34,300
And the, the most amazing part of it is that you can actually do that.

1501
01:17:34,930 --> 01:17:39,790
You can just tell the, the tell the network that these, this Bitcoin

1502
01:17:39,790 --> 01:17:45,310
here, this here Bitcoin cannot be unlocked and sent to some other

1503
01:17:45,310 --> 01:17:47,500
address until this block height.

1504
01:17:48,550 --> 01:17:49,180
That's amazing.

1505
01:17:49,510 --> 01:17:51,880
And then you protect them from even yourself.

1506
01:17:52,570 --> 01:17:53,530
So that's

1507
01:17:53,530 --> 01:17:54,160
a really good point.

1508
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:56,140
I don't trust my kids, but I'm gonna pass this on to my

1509
01:17:56,145 --> 01:17:57,251
grandkids so I'm gonna time one.

1510
01:17:57,256 --> 01:17:58,090
Exactly, exactly.

1511
01:17:58,600 --> 01:17:59,590
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1512
01:17:59,590 --> 01:18:01,060
That's possible right now.

1513
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:03,520
And people ought to be doing it, but they are.

1514
01:18:03,910 --> 01:18:06,160
And some are, but far

1515
01:18:06,165 --> 01:18:06,580
too few.

1516
01:18:07,510 --> 01:18:07,730
Wow.

1517
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:09,940
Thank you for sharing that cause I didn't know that actually.

1518
01:18:09,940 --> 01:18:10,690
That's really interesting.

1519
01:18:10,690 --> 01:18:10,870
Yeah.

1520
01:18:11,713 --> 01:18:15,343
The show is also sponsored by Bitcoin Book Shop, the Bitcoin only

1521
01:18:15,343 --> 01:18:17,143
bookstore by Konsensus Network.

1522
01:18:17,533 --> 01:18:20,743
Konsensus specializes in translations of Bitcoin books and

1523
01:18:20,743 --> 01:18:24,193
also publishes original titles in English and many other languages.

1524
01:18:24,523 --> 01:18:27,673
Check out Bitcoin book Shop for all your Bitcoin book needs.

1525
01:18:28,063 --> 01:18:30,553
Konsensus is always looking for new contributors.

1526
01:18:30,583 --> 01:18:33,283
Whether you have a book you wanna publish, you wanna help translate

1527
01:18:33,283 --> 01:18:34,783
books into your native language.

1528
01:18:35,158 --> 01:18:38,248
Or you have some other way you want to get involved, so if you want to help

1529
01:18:38,248 --> 01:18:42,268
spread the Bitcoin message, reach out to Konsensus Network by Twitter or

1530
01:18:42,268 --> 01:18:44,248
email details are in the show notes.

1531
01:18:44,826 --> 01:18:45,786
what else do we have, Luke?

1532
01:18:46,146 --> 01:18:48,096
Um, it's a good time to wrap up

1533
01:18:48,096 --> 01:18:48,516
maybe.

1534
01:18:48,726 --> 01:18:49,056
Yeah.

1535
01:18:49,176 --> 01:18:51,296
Honestly I think, I think we've had a good convo, so yeah.

1536
01:18:51,696 --> 01:18:52,266
Thanks Brian.

1537
01:18:52,296 --> 01:18:52,476
Yeah.

1538
01:18:52,476 --> 01:18:52,926
Loved it.

1539
01:18:53,526 --> 01:18:57,416
Can you tell us, our listeners, where to find you and uh, maybe any

1540
01:18:57,876 --> 01:18:59,256
last words you have about orange

1541
01:18:59,256 --> 01:18:59,586
pill app?

1542
01:19:00,156 --> 01:19:00,366
Yeah.

1543
01:19:00,396 --> 01:19:00,756
Thank you.

1544
01:19:00,756 --> 01:19:02,406
Well, thanks for, for having me on.

1545
01:19:02,436 --> 01:19:03,276
This was just fun.

1546
01:19:03,336 --> 01:19:06,426
Like, if there was no recording, I would just love to hang with you guys and chat.

1547
01:19:06,426 --> 01:19:08,916
So, um, you know, this is, yeah, my pleasure.

1548
01:19:09,396 --> 01:19:11,856
As far as reaching out to me, touch, touch base with me on the

1549
01:19:11,856 --> 01:19:15,696
orange pill app, um, I'm much more responsive on the orange pill app just

1550
01:19:15,696 --> 01:19:17,636
because I, I know it's Bitcoiners.

1551
01:19:17,936 --> 01:19:20,766
Um, I try to get back to everybody on Twitter, so I'll do my best to

1552
01:19:20,766 --> 01:19:22,116
get back to, to people on Twitter.

1553
01:19:22,116 --> 01:19:26,376
And uh, you know, we, we love interacting with the social layer of Bitcoin, so,

1554
01:19:26,586 --> 01:19:27,996
um, that, that's really important.

1555
01:19:28,836 --> 01:19:29,286
There we go.

1556
01:19:29,616 --> 01:19:31,806
Always, always doing a nice show for it.

1557
01:19:32,046 --> 01:19:33,306
Um, but I think it is important.

1558
01:19:33,311 --> 01:19:37,426
That mean, that's my, my one last pitch to sign off with is that, We can all do

1559
01:19:37,426 --> 01:19:41,506
something in Bitcoin today to, to help build, to lower our time preference.

1560
01:19:41,506 --> 01:19:45,526
Your time preference will just naturally lower if you're trying to

1561
01:19:45,526 --> 01:19:47,446
do something that's of material value.

1562
01:19:47,446 --> 01:19:51,676
So whether that's hosting a meetup, whether that's going to, to to Prague,

1563
01:19:51,676 --> 01:19:55,756
whether that's doing something that's, you know, being Konsensus, Network and

1564
01:19:55,761 --> 01:20:00,526
selling books, like all, all of these things, it, it gets you focused on, okay,

1565
01:20:00,526 --> 01:20:03,676
I can do something we, cause every human wants to do something here and now, right?

1566
01:20:03,676 --> 01:20:06,046
Like we have a, we have a high time preference.

1567
01:20:06,126 --> 01:20:06,936
With our day.

1568
01:20:06,996 --> 01:20:08,586
What, what's my checklist for today?

1569
01:20:08,736 --> 01:20:09,306
That's fine.

1570
01:20:09,306 --> 01:20:13,356
Like on productive things, we should have a, a, a high time preference because if

1571
01:20:13,356 --> 01:20:16,926
I need to make this hamburger, I can't wait forever for the hamburger to be made.

1572
01:20:16,926 --> 01:20:18,666
So we need to build today.

1573
01:20:19,056 --> 01:20:21,006
Those are the things we can have high time preference on.

1574
01:20:21,096 --> 01:20:23,556
But what is the focus in the long term?

1575
01:20:23,556 --> 01:20:26,406
Are we building something that's gonna last till 2140?

1576
01:20:26,406 --> 01:20:30,246
So I can unlock Michael's dunworth to Bitcoin, which I, which I for sure

1577
01:20:30,246 --> 01:20:34,896
am now gonna strive to live to be 170 years old just so that I can get access

1578
01:20:34,896 --> 01:20:36,276
to a few cities worth of Bitcoin.

1579
01:20:36,516 --> 01:20:41,706
Um, but what we, what we pitch with orange pill app is if you don't have an idea

1580
01:20:41,711 --> 01:20:45,816
for how you wanna build in Bitcoin, Help build the social layer, help build the

1581
01:20:45,816 --> 01:20:47,676
social layer of Bitcoin by plugging in.

1582
01:20:47,946 --> 01:20:51,516
Um, if you're the first Bitcoin that you know of in your area, cuz you

1583
01:20:51,516 --> 01:20:55,896
live in a remote area, then, then plug into the network and be that

1584
01:20:55,896 --> 01:20:58,086
first node in that local community.

1585
01:20:58,086 --> 01:21:00,846
Because what happens is every network needs to start with

1586
01:21:00,846 --> 01:21:03,936
a node somewhere and then the network will build out around you.

1587
01:21:03,936 --> 01:21:05,766
So be willing to be that first person.

1588
01:21:05,766 --> 01:21:09,216
Or if you're in an area that's high density already and you have 50 Bitcoiners

1589
01:21:09,216 --> 01:21:12,546
that are on orange pill app near you, then start interacting with those people.

1590
01:21:12,756 --> 01:21:16,656
Go grab coffee, create an event in your area, and, and, and host a meetup

1591
01:21:16,656 --> 01:21:19,866
or you know, there's, there's Bitcoin games that you can play now you can,

1592
01:21:19,866 --> 01:21:23,661
you know, Buy one of these games and, and host a game night or do, you know,

1593
01:21:23,811 --> 01:21:26,931
monopoly party or a poker party or whatever, and just get together with

1594
01:21:26,961 --> 01:21:29,001
Bitcoiners and, and, and do those things.

1595
01:21:29,241 --> 01:21:34,071
Um, and so that, that's my pitch to people is find a way to, uh, contribute

1596
01:21:34,131 --> 01:21:36,201
to and build in Bitcoin today.

1597
01:21:36,441 --> 01:21:39,651
Um, because we'll have a, a brighter orange future tomorrow.

1598
01:21:39,711 --> 01:21:43,221
Um, and, uh, yeah, orange pill app, if you go to the orange pill

1599
01:21:43,221 --> 01:21:46,041
app.com, you can sign up, you can pay in Bitcoin if you want.

1600
01:21:46,281 --> 01:21:48,681
You can sign up through the app app store and pay through the app store

1601
01:21:48,681 --> 01:21:51,651
if you prefer the, the fiat method that's, you know, fine as well.

1602
01:21:51,951 --> 01:21:55,341
Um, and, uh, yeah, look forward to later this year.

1603
01:21:55,341 --> 01:21:59,151
We will have our orange pages, our, our merchant section of the orange pill

1604
01:21:59,151 --> 01:22:03,921
app, where you can find local Bitcoin merchants, um, which we are very excited

1605
01:22:03,921 --> 01:22:07,251
about as well because I think that that's gonna contribute to hyperbitcoinization,

1606
01:22:07,521 --> 01:22:11,271
um, of, of being able to just pragmatically orange pill merchants.

1607
01:22:11,271 --> 01:22:13,041
So, um, and as far as my book.

1608
01:22:13,386 --> 01:22:14,886
It's available on Amazon.

1609
01:22:14,886 --> 01:22:16,266
It's called Bitcoin Evangelism.

1610
01:22:16,326 --> 01:22:18,156
Uh, feel free to to check it out.

1611
01:22:18,396 --> 01:22:20,916
Um, it's on Audible, all of those places as well.

1612
01:22:20,916 --> 01:22:21,726
So thank you guys.

1613
01:22:21,726 --> 01:22:22,716
I, I really appreciate it.

1614
01:22:22,721 --> 01:22:25,836
Luke and Canoe guys are, are awesome and you guys are an inspiration.

1615
01:22:25,866 --> 01:22:29,406
You guys are really, uh, pushing the intellectual layer of Bitcoin and, uh,

1616
01:22:29,411 --> 01:22:30,936
I always find it challenging and fun.

1617
01:22:32,406 --> 01:22:33,126
Thanks a lot.

1618
01:22:33,276 --> 01:22:37,776
Um, yeah, everyone, everyone thinks they need to be a developer to contribute

1619
01:22:37,776 --> 01:22:39,756
to Bitcoin, but the opposite is true.

1620
01:22:39,756 --> 01:22:41,886
Everyone's a fucking developer in this space.

1621
01:22:41,891 --> 01:22:45,786
We need the division of labor, we need all those sorts of other skills.

1622
01:22:46,356 --> 01:22:49,416
So, uh, yeah, go make yourself useful.

1623
01:22:49,716 --> 01:22:51,876
Um, thanks so much for coming on.

1624
01:22:51,906 --> 01:22:56,346
Um, Brian, looking forward to the next spaces and the next, uh, OPA meeting,

1625
01:22:56,406 --> 01:22:58,566
whenever that is, after Prague, I think.

1626
01:22:58,706 --> 01:22:59,316
Yeah, yeah.

1627
01:22:59,316 --> 01:22:59,916
Hope Perfect.

1628
01:23:00,576 --> 01:23:03,426
And, uh, yeah, we'll fill you guys in on this orange pilling Congress

1629
01:23:03,431 --> 01:23:06,696
thing that should, we should have lots of fun content to provide, uh, yeah.

1630
01:23:06,936 --> 01:23:09,846
Hopefully some fun reactions from politicians on Capitol Hill.

1631
01:23:10,476 --> 01:23:10,806
Yep.

1632
01:23:11,016 --> 01:23:12,126
Yeah, that'll be fun.

1633
01:23:12,816 --> 01:23:12,936
Awesome.

1634
01:23:12,936 --> 01:23:13,926
All right, take care,

1635
01:23:13,926 --> 01:23:14,376
Brian.

1636
01:23:14,913 --> 01:23:16,713
What did you think of that episode with Brian?

1637
01:23:17,043 --> 01:23:19,743
It was great to hear about all the work he's doing with orange pill App, and

1638
01:23:19,743 --> 01:23:22,870
we're really excited  about some of the new features they have rolling out soon.

1639
01:23:23,470 --> 01:23:25,270
Check out orange pill app if you haven't already.

1640
01:23:25,270 --> 01:23:27,490
It's available on iOS and Android.

1641
01:23:28,270 --> 01:23:29,770
Let us know what you think of the episode.

1642
01:23:29,770 --> 01:23:31,870
You can send us a Boostgram on Fountain.

1643
01:23:31,870 --> 01:23:35,380
Leave us a comment on YouTube or get in touch on Noster or Twitter.

1644
01:23:36,100 --> 01:23:39,070
If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like the episode and subscribe

1645
01:23:39,070 --> 01:23:40,600
to the Konsensus Network channel.

1646
01:23:41,350 --> 01:23:45,400
Our show sponsors are Wasabi Wallet, orange pill app, and Bitcoin Book shop.

1647
01:23:45,610 --> 01:23:49,300
Use code Footprint at Bitcoin Book Shop for 10% off your purchase.

1648
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:50,920
That's all for now.

1649
01:23:51,190 --> 01:23:53,290
See you next time, and thanks for listening.