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Steven Pollock. How are you, sir?

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Good, brother. What's new?

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So much. It's good to see you.

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I wanted to do this, and thanks for making time because I know you are a busy guy, and BPI is up all night, all day, all night doing all the things.

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We never sleep, man. We're twenty four seven. No. No. White papers nonstop.

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Just

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just cranking them out. But, you know, white paper go brr.

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But, yeah, I was I was wanting to do this before

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Bitcoin conference is a is a, you know, a a misty a misty,

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dream of the past.

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But before we get into that, for those who may not know, and I mean, as as, you know, I'm getting off the ground with Trust Revolution,

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the audience is broader

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than our, you know, perhaps typical Bitcoiner. And I'd love to get you, Steven, to sort of lay out the raison d'etre, the the, you know, the why, the what, the how behind Bitcoin Policy Institute. Give us a

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a sense of what you guys are about and what you're up to.

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Yeah.

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Well,

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first, I wanted to say congrats on launching this,

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this new vertical, man. And Thank you so much. Seems to be going well. So thanks for having me on, and excited to see where you go. I wanna talk about I wanna I wanna get you talking here in a little bit. I wanna I wanna hear some things because we haven't caught up in a long time, man. It has been a while. We'll do it we'll do it we'll do it live. F it. We'll do it live. We'll do it live. Hey. So, yeah, Bitcoin Policy Institute. I think we're, like, four years

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into this thing right now.

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Grant McCarty, David Zell, co presidents, cofounders.

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And, I was not too far after them. I was the first hire there, so I think I've got a pretty good,

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pretty good perspective, but, you know, we're still climbing the mountain. But I think we're we're able to start looking back. And,

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Matthew Pines is our new executive director, and I'm sure I don't know. For your audience, it may or may not ring some bells depending on who's listening. But if if you haven't, you should look up Matt.

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So we launched this five zero one c three, which is a nonprofit charity think tank,

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back, you know,

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four years ago. They brought me on to to help. And

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the reason for this was,

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it was kind of a it was kind of a bet, kind of a gamble

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that one day,

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the US government might start taking Bitcoin seriously.

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And

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when they do,

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we need them to take it seriously in the right kinds of ways,

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versus the wrong kinds of ways. And so,

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you know, the by time you realize, hey. We need

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a we need a, a, you know, a deep stable of some of the world's, you know,

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smartest,

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you know, Bitcoin

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policy experts or,

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just Bitcoin experts in general, mining, energy,

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human rights, all the sorts of, pillars of DPI. By the time you realize you need it, it's too late to build it. And so we had to begin

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sort of stacking the white paper, stacking the research, building credibility,

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getting some of the best and brightest then under our umbrella,

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increasing our reach, increasing our,

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you know, our influence,

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very early on.

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And,

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it's,

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you know, it's happened

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way faster than I think any of us could have imagined. I think there was this idea that it could happen at any point in time. There are certain triggers

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that could click that would make this go to sort of this unknown, you know, nobody really knows what Bitcoin is to this is

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being discussed at some of the highest levels of government.

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But that hasn't really happened

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yet.

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And so we prepared for that. I mean,

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some of the,

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I guess, some of the tariff battles,

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have maybe,

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yellow flagged it in some in some,

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some areas, but but it's just sort of organically happened. We had a, you know, we had a presidential candidate go talk about Bitcoin,

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the largest Bitcoin government in the world. You know? And, we had ETFs launch, shortly before that. You know? A number of a number of dominoes began to fall, and a number of people began began to pay attention. So,

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so that was kind of the the

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the point of departure

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was, like, we need to build this.

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And

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and

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it's not just defensive.

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It's also, like, we need,

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you know, Bitcoin at the time.

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I don't even I don't remember if it was even top 10

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asset in the world. It may have been, and then it went down to and then FTX melted down.

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And so, anyway, it was top let's say top 20 ish, top 25.

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This this, you know, asset that's cracked the top 25,

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it's, you know, gaining momentum every cycle,

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and we have, you know, a lot of it domestically.

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Now we know and we can this is something kinda fun interesting to talk about. Now we know roughly 40%

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of all Bitcoin is

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in The United States, whether it be citizens, companies, or or individuals, companies, or, or the government. We,

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you know, we have all a lot of it, and it's growing, and it's sort of, you know, market cap.

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And

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in Washington,

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more people probably were familiar with Dogecoin than Bitcoin. And so there was a there was an issue, an education issue,

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and,

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and we needed to kinda flip that. And there's no Bitcoin is so interesting,

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but, you know, there's no CEO of Bitcoin to fund a

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fund this kind of thing,

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or to run it themselves. Right. There's no there's no marketing campaign. Yep.

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And

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that creates

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vacuums that and we see how some of those play out

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unless someone says, oh, I guess we could just do that,

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and we did. So,

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so we

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we are we produce research. We advocate.

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We try to be a a trusted adviser to those who are interested in doing,

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interesting policy work,

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a place where they can, you know, kinda kinda grind it out and and talk through things and learn about second and third order impacts of policy, what's wrong, what's right,

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What why does peer to peer rights matter? Why would what what do you mean self custody?

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Why is that important? That seems dangerous.

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We wanna be a place where

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politicians

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cannot just get blasted

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for asking these questions or daring to challenge those assumptions, but to learn

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and to

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grow in their understanding.

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And we we take the offensives there. We wanna go to their offices and do all this sort of thing,

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government affairs people would do,

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but we also wanna back it up with 100 page white papers on US, China. And not just a paper, but written by someone who actually, has the bonafides to back it up.

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There's like it, love it, hate it. There are certain,

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standards

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in

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our nation's capital that that are looked for, you know, if you're going to be the type of person who could, you know, testify in front of committee or some something like that. So most of our fellows are our fellows. We have, I think, we're up around 30 fellows now.

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I had, you may know I had Yale on a few weeks ago. Great conversation. And so you you guys are just I mean, yeah, I mean, I I'm an avid supporter donor. It's just a fantastic,

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group and and team of of folks,

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and you have stacked the decks in in that regard for sure.

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We're fortunate.

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Lots of smart people in Bitcoin. Yes. And a lot of these guys are professors. You know? They have other jobs.

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We try to give them a per diem, but more than anything, I think especially early on the last few years, it was like,

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man,

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you're telling me I can do my job, and maybe you guys buy out a course of mine so I can focus solely on the thing I'm I'm most passionate about. And,

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you know, I'm not an academic, like, professionally,

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but I'm friends with a lot of them, and that's that's a dream come true for a lot of people. Right.

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You you're you're allowing me to to continue to work, but then to really, like, use my expertise

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in within the thing I care the most about.

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And that that I honestly of anything we're doing, I'm I'm just as proud proud of that, because these are just really incredible people. They're they're wonderfully intelligent. I mean, just

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unbelievably,

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competent in their in their content area,

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the philosophers, you know, all the different all the different groups, and

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and we get to unlock them. And, and they when so we couldn't do without them. I mean, they're the they're the foundation of BPI, and then we just kinda, you know, pick it up from there.

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It's really cool. And and And thank you for support your support, man. You've been there, like, since day one Pleasure.

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And giving good feedback and and helping a lot. I mean, you know, we'll get into this. I I wish in some dream world, Bitcoin could just Bitcoin,

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you know, without the, need or,

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the, in some cases, interference,

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of other parties, but that ain't the world we live in. So I'm I'm grateful for for for BPI.

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Well,

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you know, I mean, I think you mentioned

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there are codes of conduct. There are means. There are methods in which one approaches

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DC. And, you know, we'll talk about work at the state level too. But,

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if I understand, you've recently

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established a presence. So you guys are on the ground as it were in Washington DC now, and that's fairly recent, is it, Steven?

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Yeah. Over the last

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year, really, we've migrated,

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to Washington,

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beefed up our team significantly,

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by probably four x our team size.

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And

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and when you get to that size, it's you know, we need people who live in we only hire really in DC,

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just because we need to be there. Mhmm.

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And, you know, I think

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not it's not all, like,

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you know, I don't wanna play, like,

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presidents only here, but it matter. Like, the last administration versus the new administration is a big difference

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in in the demand and and interest in in Bitcoin and To put it mildly. What we in what we do. So,

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it's a little different. We spent a lot of time in Washington. I I didn't,

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but, Grant and David definitely did.

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And,

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of course,

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you know, some of the like, Matthew,

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was already there,

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But

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all our new hires are there. We have a we have a,

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brick and mortar office there, and,

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and so it's nice, to see. It's hard for me. I'm the only one who's not there, a lot of times. We're happy to have you in Nashville. So Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Same.

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But, but, you know, a lot of the, you know, a lot of the team, we have a government affairs director now or, I I guess I should say,

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yeah, director of government affairs. Ken Egan, we've hired on

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within the last,

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I guess, six months, and he

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just completed a illustrious 20 career at the CIA and retired.

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Fantastic fantastic guy, hardcore Bitcoiner.

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And,

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yeah, I really loved his

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really, you know, love his presidency. He's doing a great job just like meeting with elected officials and and can really unpack the strategic value of Bitcoin in The United States.

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Head of policies, Zac Shapiro.

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You know, you guys are probably familiar with him, but,

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has legal background, still runs a law firm,

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and can really articulate

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as well as anyone I know,

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sort of the, you know, the day to day blocking and tackling of what we're fighting up you know, what we're up against and what we're fighting on the peer to peer front,

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on the noncassodial

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services side of things. And,

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it can make the case, as well as, like I said, as well as anyone I know. So the team there,

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you know, external affairs,

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kinda internal comms.

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So we're assembling, we're assembling a really strong team, and

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I think I'm seeing the fruits of that,

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especially with we have our event coming up this summer here in, I guess, February.

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So I'm starting to see some of that myself, and I'm excited for everybody else to see it as well.

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Yeah. And I think, you know, in in keeping with the theme of this whole thing,

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speaking for myself, I trust that you guys are

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are doing the work that needs to be done. I don't wanna throw shade on some of the other blockchain this and blockchain that. But, I mean, I think what's so important about Bitcoin Policy Institute, and it's right there on the 10,

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is that, you know, the focus is where you and I, and I think so many, believe and know that it should be, which is on hard money, freedom money.

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With that, Steven, so, you know, what are the biggest challenges that you you guys are facing in getting,

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particularly, DC politicians to to truly understand Bitcoin as something distinct,

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and

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I would assume to let go of what seems to be their innate desire to control.

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What what are the biggest headwinds that you guys face in DC?

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It's headwinds.

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You know,

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John, I all sort of the things I think are.

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So the interesting thing about about this question,

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and I've kinda seen this play out,

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you know,

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well, ever since I've been involved with with Bitcoin and policy,

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it doesn't seem,

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on one hand, all that unique to Bitcoin. It's just part of,

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the issue with

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needing, you know, with, with government and working in Washington, DC.

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It's the same Nobody you know, we're not climbing a different,

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mountain here. Sure.

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It's it's inefficient.

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There's a million distractions

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in special interests,

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and, that's where you get that's where it gets tough for Bitcoiners.

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The special interest, there's no,

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you know, there's no

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PEO. There's no corporate,

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structure that,

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you can kind of play the special interest game. I think,

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you know,

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we don't we don't want this, and I don't think it has to happen,

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but it's

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sort of happened a little bit, that

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Bitcoin's become a a political football like everything else

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you know, in the current

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environment of our, you know, of our the political environment of our country, everything's a political football.

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I'm probably using the wrong brand of pen.

227
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So Cancel. Whatever. It's sort of yeah. So, you know, I'm just I'm not trying to,

228
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but I I I think I think that's

229
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the big part of it. I also think that

230
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the all those things are true, and there's probably some unique elements to this battle we're facing. A lot of Bitcoiners are gonna say, what about, like, the fact that the government doesn't like the idea,

231
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of Bitcoin and

232
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what it does, you know, the sort of freedoms and,

233
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decentralization

234
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that it provides. And I think, yeah, I think that's probably part of it too. I mean, I don't think it's helping anything,

235
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at all that there's probably factions within the government who are

236
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not so thrilled about the idea. Yeah. But their thumb on it. Yeah. Right. Right. And so, you know,

237
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how much of it is that, and how much of it is just, you know, they're not they're not greasing the wheels for us by any means. So there's some of that for sure.

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And then

239
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there's probably there's the unique,

240
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you know, every industry is kinda has its unique blend of trade groups and, you know, we're new. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's the other thing, like, Bitcoin,

241
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crypto, everyone is brand new

242
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with lots of money to throw around, and that's chaos.

243
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This creates a lot of chaos because everything's we're doing everything for the first time.

244
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And we're not you know, people think, oh, this group, you're with that and you're with, you know, this. You guys should all agree on legislation

245
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and who should vote for what. And you're like,

246
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no way. We we actually, you

247
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know,

248
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philosophically are in completely different pages. We have we want completely different things. And so it's hard for I mean, you can imagine,

249
00:17:08,570 --> 00:17:11,470
well, I know actually, I know because when I came in,

250
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with BPI, I was at Bitcoin, or I cared about Bitcoin. I was really interesting I was really interested in it, and I'd been, you know, researching and going to meet ups and all that kind of thing for a long time.

251
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But I didn't know anything about this, like, the industry.

252
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I didn't know anything about, you know, the different players and all that. You know? I just thought Bitcoin was cool, like like most people. Like, most normal people. Right. And, I mean, four years ago, you know, I mean, it's,

253
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:44,220
these past four years have been a long decade depending on how you look at it. Right? So, I mean, much has changed since you you got started.

254
00:17:44,679 --> 00:17:48,380
Right. I mean, I I I had no idea who anybody was.

255
00:17:48,759 --> 00:17:52,380
Like, all the, you know, the whether it was in Bitcoin, like, the

256
00:17:52,684 --> 00:17:53,424
sort of,

257
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you know,

258
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the cool kids. I didn't know they were I didn't know anybody.

259
00:17:59,485 --> 00:18:12,460
I didn't know. And then on the, you know, so on the political side, I understood that a little more quickly once I got going. Background. Yeah. But, but I didn't know which trade group. I didn't know it. I mean, I I had no idea. So I can I actually can imagine,

260
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if you're just

261
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,820
US senator's office, you've never heard of this stuff? Last time you ran for office, you know,

262
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:21,900
whatever, four years ago,

263
00:18:23,455 --> 00:18:27,794
this wasn't even a thing, and now it's on everybody's camp you know, everybody's platform,

264
00:18:28,575 --> 00:18:43,720
everybody's campaign. You gotta you just had to say a couple things about it so that everybody knew where you came down. Looking foolish, which they're not given to do. What I'm talking about. Now not everybody. There's some that that, you know, like like Lomas and others that have been there for a long time. But, like, generally speaking,

265
00:18:44,260 --> 00:18:49,000
most people are are like, I don't know what the hell this stuff is. My, you know, my grandkids,

266
00:18:49,735 --> 00:18:52,135
you know, our kids kinda mess with,

267
00:18:52,455 --> 00:18:57,995
like, a couple $100 on Robinhood. Yeah. And suddenly, it's just blasting you in the face, and you're like,

268
00:18:58,615 --> 00:19:03,914
just can somebody figure out which groups are what and what these guys are talking about? Like, I have no idea.

269
00:19:04,399 --> 00:19:09,299
And so I think that's part of it. I mean, it's a massive education issue. I think

270
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:10,820
I think that's probably

271
00:19:11,519 --> 00:19:15,360
more than, like, the the deep state slurry of, like, we don't want these

272
00:19:17,375 --> 00:19:20,995
which definitely exists. And more than anything else, it's like

273
00:19:21,615 --> 00:19:21,935
keep

274
00:19:22,895 --> 00:19:28,595
not having even a kindergarten under kindergartner level understanding of what we're talking about

275
00:19:30,830 --> 00:19:33,090
just exacerbates everything else.

276
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How could you possibly know which groups are are reliable and or who who's reliable for this, but not this and this, but not that?

277
00:19:42,635 --> 00:19:44,175
You don't have you have no idea.

278
00:19:44,555 --> 00:19:50,975
So you can be taken advantage of. You can be lied to. Got some money coming in from XRP. I mean, you know? Yeah.

279
00:19:52,235 --> 00:19:52,895
You know,

280
00:19:53,275 --> 00:19:53,595
you're

281
00:19:54,235 --> 00:19:56,815
I would assume if it were me, I'm probably thinking,

282
00:19:57,260 --> 00:20:00,400
well, this is gonna be gone in a year. Let's get while the getting's good.

283
00:20:01,260 --> 00:20:01,760
And,

284
00:20:02,620 --> 00:20:03,280
you know,

285
00:20:03,580 --> 00:20:08,000
sometimes that's probably the right play. You're like, oh, this is a hot topic.

286
00:20:09,180 --> 00:20:14,355
You know? This'll by next in two years, nobody's gonna heard of this stuff again. Like,

287
00:20:14,815 --> 00:20:15,315
let's,

288
00:20:15,695 --> 00:20:20,835
just sort of be can. You don't know? Well, what's I mean, for those with, you know, name names or don't. I'm I'm guessing,

289
00:20:21,375 --> 00:20:25,555
don't. But, are you seeing, Steven, a pattern for those who get it

290
00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:30,570
at at any level or any sort of sphere within DC? I mean, are there

291
00:20:30,950 --> 00:20:33,370
are there attributes of those who

292
00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:37,929
get it, wanna do the work, do the work, and are are advocating,

293
00:20:39,085 --> 00:20:41,825
you know, or as you say, is it just lost in sort of

294
00:20:42,285 --> 00:20:44,945
the the chaos of of being an elected,

295
00:20:45,725 --> 00:20:47,345
federal politician? Yeah.

296
00:20:47,965 --> 00:20:51,735
What what makes a Cynthia Lummis? You know, let's just sort of pick Cynthia for a moment. And

297
00:20:52,580 --> 00:20:53,720
Yeah. I,

298
00:20:54,260 --> 00:20:54,920
you know,

299
00:20:55,620 --> 00:20:57,000
I I don't think it's

300
00:20:57,780 --> 00:20:59,720
Sean, I don't think it's that different

301
00:21:01,060 --> 00:21:01,560
to

302
00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:04,280
to you know? I don't think it's that, like,

303
00:21:05,875 --> 00:21:10,215
if you're out the right way to say. I don't think it's, like, specific to Bitcoin, I guess I'd say. I think

304
00:21:10,755 --> 00:21:11,335
I think

305
00:21:12,515 --> 00:21:13,895
good elected officials,

306
00:21:14,674 --> 00:21:16,215
those who are good at their job

307
00:21:17,075 --> 00:21:17,815
and have,

308
00:21:18,750 --> 00:21:23,490
you know, high quality staff around them. Those you can have both. I mean, you can be the best

309
00:21:23,870 --> 00:21:25,650
US senator ever and

310
00:21:27,310 --> 00:21:28,690
and not have a good staff.

311
00:21:29,950 --> 00:21:40,384
And in fact, you can be like a, you know, not so great. You know? I don't know. And and you you're as good as and I think most would say, like, I'm only as good as my staff. Sure.

312
00:21:40,764 --> 00:21:43,345
Because it's a it's it's a big job.

313
00:21:44,284 --> 00:21:49,620
I think most, like, executives would say that too. Right. If they were completely honest. Yes.

314
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:52,500
So I think there's that.

315
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,900
The I think the my favorite type of elected official, personally,

316
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:00,420
are those that

317
00:22:01,815 --> 00:22:03,674
care about their constituents.

318
00:22:04,534 --> 00:22:05,355
They realize,

319
00:22:07,575 --> 00:22:09,034
what's sort of,

320
00:22:09,414 --> 00:22:11,034
you know, important to them,

321
00:22:11,414 --> 00:22:14,715
what's good for their state, you know, or district,

322
00:22:15,174 --> 00:22:16,794
the businesses that are there.

323
00:22:18,110 --> 00:22:23,570
They wanna see the area thrive. They wanna protect it from, you know, sort of predatory

324
00:22:24,350 --> 00:22:25,490
type of groups.

325
00:22:26,190 --> 00:22:26,929
And so

326
00:22:27,309 --> 00:22:29,090
I think that instinct,

327
00:22:30,565 --> 00:22:33,945
which, honestly, I think a lot like, most people who run for office,

328
00:22:35,365 --> 00:22:37,305
show up to run for office

329
00:22:37,925 --> 00:22:44,105
thinking that way. I don't think it's you know? Or at least believing that they think that way. Mister Smith goes to Washington.

330
00:22:44,750 --> 00:22:47,650
Yeah. And then things start happening and Yeah.

331
00:22:48,510 --> 00:22:51,810
You forget that or you never really develop that.

332
00:22:52,670 --> 00:22:53,490
So, anyway,

333
00:22:54,110 --> 00:22:56,770
Lomas, for instance, you know, I think,

334
00:22:57,545 --> 00:22:58,684
obviously, she's smart.

335
00:22:59,065 --> 00:23:04,684
You know, I think it's the same type of things that that drive, you know, individuals into being interested in Bitcoin.

336
00:23:06,025 --> 00:23:07,885
You know, usually pretty sharp,

337
00:23:10,390 --> 00:23:12,330
or or not sitting, I guess, like,

338
00:23:14,150 --> 00:23:16,730
mid you know, mid curve. No. Not many midterms.

339
00:23:17,030 --> 00:23:19,050
Yeah. Mid Midwest. So,

340
00:23:19,670 --> 00:23:20,410
yeah. Anyway,

341
00:23:21,030 --> 00:23:22,410
I think, yeah, I think,

342
00:23:22,795 --> 00:23:25,895
I think just being just that that,

343
00:23:26,355 --> 00:23:36,515
I'm so sorry to hear you. You know? You've got kids that are interested in it. Yep. You know? I'm trying to give you a broad answer Yeah. Just because I don't I don't meet directly with a lot of the, the leaders. But,

344
00:23:37,475 --> 00:23:41,080
but I think what I was trying to go with was, like, I

345
00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:42,000
think

346
00:23:42,419 --> 00:23:44,600
I'm look I'm I'm I'm thinking about Tennessee,

347
00:23:45,860 --> 00:23:48,760
and the conversations I've had with elected leaders here

348
00:23:49,299 --> 00:23:52,045
just because they're my, you know, representatives.

349
00:23:53,565 --> 00:23:54,625
A lot of it is

350
00:23:55,805 --> 00:23:56,305
just

351
00:23:56,605 --> 00:23:58,865
they think it's interesting. They see the value.

352
00:23:59,565 --> 00:24:02,305
They've got family members that are kind of, you know,

353
00:24:03,085 --> 00:24:04,200
passionate about it,

354
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:14,779
or, you know, they've kinda heard through the grapevine, or they're they're familiar with the sort of human rights HRF type of Right. Use cases, and

355
00:24:15,559 --> 00:24:16,519
I think they,

356
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:23,115
they may not even. I've met you know? Like, I don't completely get this, but I can tell there's something there.

357
00:24:23,495 --> 00:24:24,615
I can tell this is,

358
00:24:25,255 --> 00:24:26,475
serious and significant.

359
00:24:27,175 --> 00:24:40,560
And and so I don't I that's where I was trying to go. I don't need an elected official to, like, be a Bitcoiner. I really don't. I don't think that's the ask. If so, I think that's a little, like maybe maybe. Like, that's for them to decide.

360
00:24:40,940 --> 00:24:47,785
But and so I don't I'm not like, how much Bitcoin do they hold? Like, how long they've been? What what I want from an elected official regardless of the issue

361
00:24:48,725 --> 00:24:57,625
is for them to hear hear hear me out. And if if, if I'm able to make a compelling case, then they take it seriously because I take it seriously,

362
00:24:57,925 --> 00:24:59,785
and they represent me in government.

363
00:25:00,420 --> 00:25:02,040
And so I think,

364
00:25:02,420 --> 00:25:05,480
you know, you have the Lummuses of the world, which are

365
00:25:06,020 --> 00:25:08,840
I mean, we're few in the far between. We're spoiled rotten

366
00:25:09,300 --> 00:25:15,400
with her. Mhmm. It's I mean, most industries I said to somebody the other day, they cut off their their left arm

367
00:25:15,735 --> 00:25:23,434
to have a a a senator Lummis in their in their corner in DC. It's just a it's a she's a unicorn. And so,

368
00:25:24,135 --> 00:25:25,835
so, you know, setting that aside,

369
00:25:26,775 --> 00:25:32,539
I think, like, the sort of normal representatives that we're talking about is, let's take this seriously.

370
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,580
You know, there's, you know, the mining side, the energy side, the human rights side.

371
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:45,340
I talked to a US senator's wife one time, and, you know, like, we were catching talking at this event, and

372
00:25:46,095 --> 00:25:47,635
she was just like, you

373
00:25:48,095 --> 00:25:53,315
know you know, my kids play around with, you know, crypto stuff or whatever. I just don't get it. And I was like, well,

374
00:25:54,655 --> 00:25:56,895
and for whatever reason, it's fresh in my mind. I said

375
00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:03,580
this was, yeah, this was a while back, not too long after The US left Afghanistan.

376
00:26:04,039 --> 00:26:04,539
And

377
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:05,820
I said, imagine

378
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:07,340
being

379
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,899
a woman just like yourself in Afghanistan

380
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:10,700
and,

381
00:26:12,034 --> 00:26:18,534
you know, The US leaves and you're suddenly overnight, your entire country is just turned upside down and,

382
00:26:19,235 --> 00:26:20,615
you can again,

383
00:26:21,715 --> 00:26:22,294
how Or

384
00:26:22,995 --> 00:26:31,340
I don't care what you think about Afghanistan, but this is what happened. Right. I don't care if you think we should've left or not or should never have been there. We did. But this is what happened. We Yeah. US left,

385
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,300
and everybody was left high and dry. And,

386
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,500
and suddenly, the the banks, the, you know, the entire

387
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,965
economy are just just flipped on their head.

388
00:26:43,745 --> 00:26:48,885
And you're a, you know, middle class, upper middle class woman with a family, and

389
00:26:49,345 --> 00:27:03,200
you're like, we gotta get the hell out of here. Like, well, what are you gonna do? You can't go cash your you can't get money out of the bank. Are you gonna carry a you know, you get some gold bars, or are you gonna tape them to your legs? Like, you can't get through customs. You can't and so I said, ma'am, I said, for the first time

390
00:27:04,300 --> 00:27:09,600
in world history, someone like you could memorize 12 words, go anywhere in the world, and

391
00:27:10,024 --> 00:27:13,144
take their life savings with them and start over. Yeah.

392
00:27:13,544 --> 00:27:17,565
I said it doesn't mean it would be easy to do it, but it does mean it's actually possible.

393
00:27:18,105 --> 00:27:19,005
Right. And,

394
00:27:20,664 --> 00:27:24,445
she was just like she kinda stared at me and kinda finished talking and walked off.

395
00:27:25,860 --> 00:27:27,080
Thirty minutes later,

396
00:27:27,620 --> 00:27:28,440
a couple staffers

397
00:27:28,900 --> 00:27:29,400
from,

398
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:33,320
from the selected officials team came over there. Like,

399
00:27:33,940 --> 00:27:43,495
what did you say to did you say to so and so's wife? I was like, I don't I don't know. I don't I mean, we talked for a while. What are you talking about? They're like, well, I'd order, like, $7 on Bitcoin.

400
00:27:44,115 --> 00:27:44,515
And,

401
00:27:45,075 --> 00:27:50,615
and so that's all I ask. Right? Is if we make a compelling case,

402
00:27:51,070 --> 00:27:53,090
dig in a little bit, verify,

403
00:27:53,950 --> 00:27:58,930
what I'm saying, and, like, you know what? That this is a powerful tool. I don't completely understand it.

404
00:27:59,470 --> 00:28:02,530
I don't know if it's gonna be here in ten, twenty years yet, but

405
00:28:03,005 --> 00:28:04,305
this is definitely interesting.

406
00:28:04,845 --> 00:28:05,345
And,

407
00:28:05,805 --> 00:28:14,945
and that's I think that's what we that's all we ask. Yeah. I think that's fair enough. With the knife, man Yeah. If we do have with the knife and I think we're starting to reach that point. People like,

408
00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:23,980
damn. I gotta pay a little more attention to this. Right. Yeah. No. I think it's a it's a great it's a great, you know, yeah, strong anecdote and an excellent point to make, which is

409
00:28:24,919 --> 00:28:26,059
there are no easy,

410
00:28:26,679 --> 00:28:27,660
I think, answers

411
00:28:28,105 --> 00:28:34,284
to addressing you know, I'm reminded of my conversation with the IL not to put words in his mouth, but, you know, he rightly, I think,

412
00:28:34,745 --> 00:28:36,205
calls out that the

413
00:28:36,585 --> 00:28:37,644
ideal role

414
00:28:37,945 --> 00:28:38,845
in his case,

415
00:28:40,345 --> 00:28:41,644
in consumer advocacy

416
00:28:42,105 --> 00:28:42,605
is

417
00:28:43,220 --> 00:28:45,720
to advocate for and to promote

418
00:28:46,580 --> 00:28:47,560
laws, regulations

419
00:28:48,020 --> 00:28:49,720
that restrain government.

420
00:28:50,580 --> 00:28:52,600
Not that we need to run around enabling,

421
00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:57,720
or asking, you know, government to do things for, but just not to do things anti.

422
00:28:58,195 --> 00:29:09,015
Mhmm. And, I think that in combination with, as you say, appealing on a human level, and these are individuals who need an emotional connection as we all do to things that they

423
00:29:09,315 --> 00:29:11,015
wish to invest energy in.

424
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,020
So if we go from there, Steven, to

425
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,700
you know, let's let's dig into the swamp a little bit. So,

426
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,620
you know, there are clashes and conflicts that we see between White House, SEC,

427
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:24,420
Treasury.

428
00:29:25,155 --> 00:29:29,735
Something bubbled up, I think it was earlier this week from Secret Service regarding mixers.

429
00:29:31,075 --> 00:29:32,455
Here too, broad question.

430
00:29:34,435 --> 00:29:36,855
What is your take or read on

431
00:29:37,930 --> 00:29:40,910
how much of that is just the normal DC noise?

432
00:29:41,770 --> 00:29:45,230
How much of it is, okay, we're seeing them sort of come on side

433
00:29:45,770 --> 00:29:50,910
to Bitcoin, and and where is there still a lot of work to do? So sort of assess,

434
00:29:51,355 --> 00:29:52,174
if you will,

435
00:29:53,115 --> 00:29:53,615
where

436
00:29:54,075 --> 00:30:02,575
Bitcoin sits relative to these these powers and these these agencies. Yeah. That's a big question. It is a big one. I think one that I think that's

437
00:30:02,955 --> 00:30:03,455
that's

438
00:30:04,250 --> 00:30:07,149
timely. I think that's one we're all trying to suss out right now,

439
00:30:07,929 --> 00:30:08,990
in real time.

440
00:30:09,610 --> 00:30:10,990
And, you know, you're

441
00:30:11,529 --> 00:30:15,470
I think you're right to kinda zoom out and look let's not look at, like, one

442
00:30:16,625 --> 00:30:17,125
specific,

443
00:30:17,585 --> 00:30:18,085
story

444
00:30:18,545 --> 00:30:21,045
or one, you know, strategic movement,

445
00:30:22,305 --> 00:30:22,805
and,

446
00:30:23,105 --> 00:30:26,085
you know, use that to interpret the whole. But

447
00:30:26,545 --> 00:30:29,045
on the whole, there does seem to be,

448
00:30:30,545 --> 00:30:31,205
a shift,

449
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:32,899
you know, in posture.

450
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:34,100
And,

451
00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:38,820
this the I'm I'm gonna, you know,

452
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:40,179
make it some assumptions.

453
00:30:41,759 --> 00:30:42,259
But,

454
00:30:42,879 --> 00:30:44,720
you know, I think when you look at,

455
00:30:46,035 --> 00:30:49,815
some of the executive orders and when you look at, you know, just the political,

456
00:30:51,955 --> 00:30:53,495
tides beginning to turn

457
00:30:53,795 --> 00:30:55,175
on some of these,

458
00:30:55,635 --> 00:30:57,175
freedom and privacy issues,

459
00:30:58,670 --> 00:31:00,130
That takes a while to

460
00:31:00,590 --> 00:31:02,610
digest its way through the system,

461
00:31:02,990 --> 00:31:05,730
work its way through the system, and for,

462
00:31:06,110 --> 00:31:09,090
you know, the the signaling to sort of, like,

463
00:31:09,390 --> 00:31:10,005
you know,

464
00:31:11,365 --> 00:31:14,165
make its way. And I think we're starting to probably see some of that.

465
00:31:16,005 --> 00:31:17,625
Like, a big a big,

466
00:31:18,565 --> 00:31:19,225
an interesting

467
00:31:20,165 --> 00:31:21,365
thing we can talk about,

468
00:31:21,685 --> 00:31:22,585
with the summit

469
00:31:24,389 --> 00:31:26,970
is, DTI. We reannounced I guess

470
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:32,010
So last week? Yeah. Seems like it's been three weeks since last week.

471
00:31:32,630 --> 00:31:34,570
Yeah. Last week was a long month. Right?

472
00:31:36,895 --> 00:31:43,695
That the deputy director of the CIA, Michael Ellis, will be speaking at the Bitcoin policy summit here in a few weeks. And,

473
00:31:44,495 --> 00:31:45,315
and so that's

474
00:31:45,775 --> 00:31:48,355
raised a lot of eyebrows. Ten four past going up.

475
00:31:48,735 --> 00:31:49,715
Right. Right.

476
00:31:51,230 --> 00:31:52,049
And so,

477
00:31:52,510 --> 00:31:53,169
you know,

478
00:31:54,029 --> 00:31:58,529
on the on the intelligence side, which I'm not gonna speak too much about because I don't

479
00:31:59,389 --> 00:32:02,690
know much about it. But I think when you begin to see

480
00:32:04,355 --> 00:32:06,455
Bitcoin viewed as a tool of statecraft

481
00:32:06,835 --> 00:32:08,295
rather than a hindrance

482
00:32:08,755 --> 00:32:09,735
to statecraft,

483
00:32:10,595 --> 00:32:16,855
then, that's when this this starts to get a little interesting, and you start to see not just the elected officials,

484
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:22,490
but the agencies and this, you know, some of the support groups, the, you know, DOJ,

485
00:32:23,670 --> 00:32:24,170
treasury,

486
00:32:25,430 --> 00:32:26,870
intelligence community begin to

487
00:32:28,230 --> 00:32:31,355
you know? We don't need a, you know, we don't

488
00:32:31,895 --> 00:32:36,315
need a 180 degree about face. I mean, five degrees is a huge difference

489
00:32:36,615 --> 00:32:37,515
in perspective

490
00:32:38,295 --> 00:32:38,775
on,

491
00:32:39,335 --> 00:32:40,635
on Bitcoin. So

492
00:32:40,935 --> 00:32:44,475
I think we're starting to see some of that, and I hope it continues.

493
00:32:45,220 --> 00:32:46,580
What are what are some of the

494
00:32:47,300 --> 00:32:53,400
in as much as you can share, what are some of those glimmers of hope? What sorts of positive turns or attitude,

495
00:32:54,500 --> 00:33:15,370
changes have you have you observed? Well, I know I don't think this is the answer you you're looking for, but I'll this is the one I'm gonna give. I think the biggest, I mean, the biggest, brightest version of this was what happened last week in Vegas. Yeah. And let's let's go there. Give me yeah. I I wanted to touch on that. Give me give me a give me a recap. Give us a recap, please, of, of the Bitcoin conference.

496
00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:20,090
Yeah. Well, let's just go straight let's not bury the the lead.

497
00:33:20,390 --> 00:33:25,049
The vice president of The United States came and spoke at the Bitcoin conference, and he did a hell of a job.

498
00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:26,549
And,

499
00:33:27,795 --> 00:33:32,355
I've have I'm looking on my phone because I've got a few notes that I wanted to that I took during the speech.

500
00:33:34,275 --> 00:33:40,855
But first, I wanna highlight that and this has been, like, this is, like, my bit right now, everyone I talked to.

501
00:33:42,220 --> 00:33:51,519
You know, the president spoke last year. The vice president the president did not speak last year. A guy running for president spoke last year on a campaign trail on as a campaign stop.

502
00:33:51,980 --> 00:33:54,799
And so, you know, if you're out in Tennessee

503
00:33:55,355 --> 00:34:05,135
or in the, you know, in the area and there's 30 something thousand people and you can go spike Gary Gensler's, you know, football four or five times, and they all get amped up,

504
00:34:05,435 --> 00:34:17,750
and you can make a bunch of promises that if you lose, whatever. But if you win, what the hell? Sure. And, hey, I'm giving the guy credit. Like, he kept a you know, as far as I can see, pretty much every promise he made,

505
00:34:19,010 --> 00:34:20,370
and props for that.

506
00:34:20,850 --> 00:34:28,215
That's a good start. Regardless of what you'd think of a guy, a president Trump, like, hey. Came in. He said a bunch of things, and he did them.

507
00:34:28,915 --> 00:34:30,935
I appreciate that because you can get

508
00:34:31,635 --> 00:34:33,415
those who don't do any of that,

509
00:34:34,035 --> 00:34:35,495
or just don't make any promises.

510
00:34:35,875 --> 00:34:36,375
Yes.

511
00:34:36,995 --> 00:34:38,455
And so safer path.

512
00:34:38,930 --> 00:34:51,110
But, you know, I I'm the point that I'm trying to make is, like I mean, it's pretty basic, but he was not president. He was running for office, and it was a campaign stop. Last week in Las Vegas, it was a sitting vice president,

513
00:34:52,224 --> 00:34:56,244
which is a major difference. He's not running for office at all for years,

514
00:34:56,945 --> 00:34:58,244
and there's no immediate

515
00:34:59,505 --> 00:35:05,205
there's no immediate political gain is the other side of it. It's not like, oh, let me go win over all these Bitcoiners.

516
00:35:06,039 --> 00:35:15,260
They already won. They were won last year. So what's the so why are you there? Well, it's a little more sophisticated than that. Right? It's a little more it's a little maybe there's a little more going on there.

517
00:35:16,039 --> 00:35:17,420
That would be my thought.

518
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,460
Now the other side of it is,

519
00:35:21,924 --> 00:35:27,625
I looked up yesterday. JD Vance has plus two fifty odds to be the next president of The United States.

520
00:35:28,805 --> 00:35:31,944
Next closest is plus 1,000, and that's a whole

521
00:35:32,405 --> 00:35:34,105
field. That's the,

522
00:35:35,310 --> 00:35:40,370
Gavin Newsom, the AOCs, and Don Juniors of the world are all, like, plus 1,000.

523
00:35:40,750 --> 00:35:41,250
So

524
00:35:42,350 --> 00:35:49,550
against the field, JD Vance is, like, 30% odds of being next fight next president of The United States. So I I think it that's a

525
00:35:51,135 --> 00:35:54,835
because of what happened the year before, I think people are like, oh, yeah. Presidential

526
00:35:55,535 --> 00:35:59,955
caliber people come speak at these Bitcoin conferences all the time. It's it's an it's insane.

527
00:36:00,255 --> 00:36:02,355
Mhmm. It's unheard of.

528
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:04,780
And not only did he speak,

529
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:05,720
he,

530
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,320
first yeah. The first half of the speech, he's kinda get going, and,

531
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:11,340
I think, you know,

532
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:17,180
he ended up kinda going off script. And he when he did get off script, I mean, he was

533
00:36:17,855 --> 00:36:19,055
he was killing it.

534
00:36:19,615 --> 00:36:21,075
He talked about Bitcoin.

535
00:36:21,855 --> 00:36:23,075
He said that,

536
00:36:23,934 --> 00:36:28,275
he kinda hit Gensler a few times, you know, rehashed that, got some got

537
00:36:28,655 --> 00:36:30,835
some got some, crowd momentum going.

538
00:36:31,370 --> 00:36:35,870
And he started talking about the why Bitcoin's valuable or why Bitcoin's important.

539
00:36:36,490 --> 00:36:40,190
And he was beginning he discussed, expanded access to banking.

540
00:36:40,490 --> 00:36:41,470
He said Bitcoin

541
00:36:41,930 --> 00:36:48,345
is a hedge against central government control. Woah. Certainly sounds good. Yeah. Sounds pretty good, doesn't it?

542
00:36:49,605 --> 00:36:52,984
Hedge against inflation, hedge against private sector censorship,

543
00:36:53,365 --> 00:36:54,265
and banking.

544
00:36:54,805 --> 00:36:56,825
He called Bitcoiners digital pioneers.

545
00:36:57,789 --> 00:36:59,809
He said he wants to listen to our industry.

546
00:37:01,630 --> 00:37:09,089
He said that Bitcoin deserves the the industry Bitcoin, Bitcoin network deserves the respect and support from the government

547
00:37:09,710 --> 00:37:11,809
versus being torn down by bureaucracy.

548
00:37:12,190 --> 00:37:12,589
And,

549
00:37:14,045 --> 00:37:19,265
and then he encouraged big voters to be engaged in the twenty twenty six election. So there is Yeah.

550
00:37:20,285 --> 00:37:25,985
Consider the incentives. I mean, you gotta, you know, you gotta remind everybody Yeah. That GOTV,

551
00:37:26,365 --> 00:37:26,865
but

552
00:37:27,165 --> 00:37:30,050
but, hey, I thought, you know, some of that is

553
00:37:31,170 --> 00:37:38,070
I mean, I don't I don't I don't think he was reading from teleprompter during during some most of that. I think that was that was him talking.

554
00:37:38,690 --> 00:37:41,510
And even if it was teleprompter or whatever, it doesn't, like,

555
00:37:42,335 --> 00:37:52,914
take away from it, but it does add, I think, if you're if you're just riffing and you're dropping. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the guy gets it, at you know, seems seems to get it. Smart guy.

556
00:37:54,815 --> 00:37:55,315
And,

557
00:37:55,855 --> 00:37:56,595
you know,

558
00:37:57,759 --> 00:38:10,965
you also happen to mention a, one of my favorite think tanks in the Washington area too, so I was, excited to hear that. Shout out. Nice. Nice. I mean, I and I think, you know, we could spend a whole lot of time probably on the conference. I sat this one out.

559
00:38:11,765 --> 00:38:13,625
And I think, you know, there understandably,

560
00:38:14,005 --> 00:38:16,105
there's there's the buzz, the,

561
00:38:16,725 --> 00:38:18,905
negative buzz, I suppose, about the

562
00:38:19,285 --> 00:38:20,905
degree to which it has become

563
00:38:21,205 --> 00:38:21,945
a political

564
00:38:22,405 --> 00:38:25,225
event as opposed to an industry conference or a,

565
00:38:27,250 --> 00:38:36,950
you know, a a freedom money conference sort of, you know, drifting away from from the ethos to to industry to now, you know, as you say, statecraft and politics. But

566
00:38:37,890 --> 00:38:47,385
I I think one of the things, and this I know is, is a is a tough one, is the strategic Bitcoin reserve. I mean, I think, correct me, Bitcoin Policy Institute

567
00:38:47,685 --> 00:38:49,945
was was largely, if not

568
00:38:50,485 --> 00:38:50,985
predominantly

569
00:38:51,605 --> 00:38:52,105
behind

570
00:38:53,045 --> 00:38:54,985
the advocacy of the SBR.

571
00:38:56,325 --> 00:38:57,465
You know, it it

572
00:38:57,910 --> 00:39:03,370
didn't go the way, I think, you know, that a lot of people wanted. It would have been a dreamy scenario if,

573
00:39:03,910 --> 00:39:06,890
in some measures. Not every not everyone will agree

574
00:39:07,510 --> 00:39:11,850
if it was sort of pure and simple, but, you know, digital assets and ETFs

575
00:39:12,315 --> 00:39:16,015
and, you know, all the fingers got into the pie.

576
00:39:18,315 --> 00:39:25,535
Where did this thing begin, Steven, and where are we realistically? I mean and it and I don't mean to use that as the ultimate measure

577
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:32,180
of success, but I think for many, it is. So, you know, sort of take us through an abbreviated history of

578
00:39:32,559 --> 00:39:37,845
of how it got going and and where we are and maybe where we're headed on this.

579
00:39:38,645 --> 00:39:39,145
Sure.

580
00:39:39,445 --> 00:39:42,265
I can give you the the history as far as I know it.

581
00:39:42,724 --> 00:39:43,865
And I'm sure there's

582
00:39:44,645 --> 00:39:48,665
there's parts of the story that I'm that I'm either not familiar with or,

583
00:39:49,765 --> 00:39:53,465
can you hear me okay Yes. By the way? Yeah. Absolutely. That I'm you know,

584
00:39:53,950 --> 00:39:56,210
Others should could chime in. But,

585
00:39:56,910 --> 00:39:58,850
the first thing I'll say about the SBR,

586
00:39:59,950 --> 00:40:00,930
is that I think

587
00:40:01,710 --> 00:40:04,690
I think this was a baptism by fire for,

588
00:40:05,790 --> 00:40:07,010
everyone who is

589
00:40:07,390 --> 00:40:08,210
new to

590
00:40:08,835 --> 00:40:09,734
political realities.

591
00:40:11,234 --> 00:40:14,215
And so it's sort of like, welcome to the big leagues.

592
00:40:14,915 --> 00:40:17,015
You know? Be careful what you ask for.

593
00:40:17,315 --> 00:40:19,075
Yeah. Be careful. And,

594
00:40:19,875 --> 00:40:20,375
and,

595
00:40:21,290 --> 00:40:27,070
you know, personally, I think it was a huge win. I'll just say that. I'll tell you how I feel about it. I think it was a massive win

596
00:40:27,450 --> 00:40:27,950
and,

597
00:40:28,650 --> 00:40:29,470
little shocked.

598
00:40:31,369 --> 00:40:31,930
That that's

599
00:40:32,650 --> 00:40:34,750
I'm shocked, and I'm not because,

600
00:40:35,930 --> 00:40:37,070
my sort of,

601
00:40:37,575 --> 00:40:38,075
like,

602
00:40:38,695 --> 00:40:39,755
vibe with,

603
00:40:41,175 --> 00:40:42,155
with legislation

604
00:40:42,615 --> 00:40:43,115
and,

605
00:40:44,375 --> 00:40:52,290
and with, you know, this kind of thing is that, like, nothing's ever as great as you think it's gonna be, and nothing's ever as bad as you think it might be.

606
00:40:53,250 --> 00:40:58,310
Sometimes, yeah. I mean, there's a world where you get the cleanest perfect version of the SBR,

607
00:40:59,010 --> 00:41:00,950
and there's a world where you get something

608
00:41:01,490 --> 00:41:02,390
a lot crazier.

609
00:41:02,930 --> 00:41:10,885
And we solved both of those. Right? We solved and I think you saw the the whole, you know, the whole industry just roller coaster. Absolutely.

610
00:41:11,585 --> 00:41:12,085
And

611
00:41:12,865 --> 00:41:14,805
yet again, I'm like, hey. Well, like,

612
00:41:15,345 --> 00:41:16,945
welcome to the big leagues, man.

613
00:41:17,505 --> 00:41:17,745
That's

614
00:41:18,465 --> 00:41:22,165
this isn't a one off case. Many such cases as they say.

615
00:41:24,490 --> 00:41:25,789
So that's kind of my,

616
00:41:27,529 --> 00:41:28,430
my my opinion,

617
00:41:29,130 --> 00:41:29,630
which

618
00:41:30,010 --> 00:41:37,869
could be wrong and disagree with. Well, anyway, where where where is it? What's the state of things today? Because I'll confess I've sort of lost track of of

619
00:41:38,945 --> 00:41:40,805
where it is on that roller coaster.

620
00:41:41,425 --> 00:41:46,325
Yeah. Well, we have a strategic Bitcoin reserve via executive order,

621
00:41:46,785 --> 00:41:50,880
and the goal is with senator Lummis' Bitcoin act to codify it.

622
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,299
Obviously, executive orders

623
00:41:53,839 --> 00:41:54,339
are,

624
00:41:55,279 --> 00:41:57,940
can be overturned pretty easily. And so,

625
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:08,375
it's a win. I think it's viewed as more of a temporary win that paves the way to do a little more serious, legislative work, like, in a you know, to put it simply.

626
00:42:09,155 --> 00:42:09,655
So

627
00:42:10,675 --> 00:42:18,215
the you know, there are other bills that are out there, market structure bills and stable coin genius act bills that

628
00:42:18,670 --> 00:42:19,490
seem to

629
00:42:19,870 --> 00:42:22,690
have a lot of political capital pushing those.

630
00:42:23,550 --> 00:42:31,090
You can think they're important. You cannot think they're important. You can hate them. You can love them, but that's just the truth is, like, that's a bit major focus right now.

631
00:42:32,030 --> 00:42:36,994
But at the same time, the Bitcoin act is has a lot of momentum too.

632
00:42:37,375 --> 00:42:40,435
And, it's a little more difficult, it seems like.

633
00:42:41,215 --> 00:42:42,494
I don't know exactly

634
00:42:42,975 --> 00:42:45,395
you know, unpack exactly why,

635
00:42:46,175 --> 00:42:47,315
but I think it's

636
00:42:47,740 --> 00:42:52,640
just as I think it's just as important, probably more important than than any of the others personally.

637
00:42:54,140 --> 00:42:56,800
But, yeah, that's the state of play right now.

638
00:42:57,100 --> 00:43:02,525
Do you buy into and, again, I realize it's probably never this binary, but do you buy

639
00:43:03,545 --> 00:43:04,684
into the observation

640
00:43:05,464 --> 00:43:07,724
that a lot of this is about

641
00:43:08,665 --> 00:43:13,545
Bitcoin bad for US dollar hegemony hegemony? I always try circle with that word.

642
00:43:13,944 --> 00:43:14,444
Stablecoins

643
00:43:14,825 --> 00:43:17,720
good for? I mean, how much of that is

644
00:43:18,420 --> 00:43:20,680
at play here? I don't think that's the case.

645
00:43:21,300 --> 00:43:22,440
I that

646
00:43:23,220 --> 00:43:23,720
it's

647
00:43:24,020 --> 00:43:25,160
stablecoin good

648
00:43:25,460 --> 00:43:25,960
for

649
00:43:26,500 --> 00:43:27,240
US dollar,

650
00:43:27,620 --> 00:43:30,120
and that's it. Okay. I don't think it's

651
00:43:30,585 --> 00:43:31,085
and.

652
00:43:31,385 --> 00:43:33,085
I'm thinking I I think,

653
00:43:33,625 --> 00:43:35,724
I think it's actually Bitcoin good,

654
00:43:36,345 --> 00:43:37,325
but stablecoin

655
00:43:37,865 --> 00:43:43,724
Better. Good right now. Right? Right. Right. I'd like stablecoin. Stablecoin good. Yeah.

656
00:43:44,345 --> 00:43:48,710
You know, unless Satoshi, you know, pops up and starts buying US treasuries.

657
00:43:51,090 --> 00:43:54,230
So I think there I think it's I think there's a little bit of that.

658
00:43:55,970 --> 00:43:56,470
And,

659
00:43:57,865 --> 00:43:58,365
hey,

660
00:43:58,985 --> 00:44:00,125
the stablecoin,

661
00:44:01,785 --> 00:44:04,365
I'll say, like, I think it's a little more intuitive

662
00:44:04,745 --> 00:44:05,245
for,

663
00:44:06,585 --> 00:44:08,845
politicians. They're like, oh, I get that.

664
00:44:09,305 --> 00:44:12,365
It's just a dollar that's digital a dollar. A CBDC

665
00:44:12,825 --> 00:44:13,565
and, like,

666
00:44:14,660 --> 00:44:18,840
we need more of those out there. I get why they're like, oh, yeah. That it's easier,

667
00:44:19,940 --> 00:44:20,760
than, like,

668
00:44:22,100 --> 00:44:23,320
Yeah. Consider cypherpunk,

669
00:44:23,700 --> 00:44:24,840
you know, decentralization.

670
00:44:25,860 --> 00:44:29,585
And and so I don't think What? I don't think it's, like, sinister

671
00:44:30,125 --> 00:44:30,625
or,

672
00:44:32,285 --> 00:44:38,465
you know, I don't and, again, I don't know every elected official in Washington, but those that I do know, I'm thinking

673
00:44:39,325 --> 00:44:40,525
I think they're, yeah, I think they're

674
00:44:42,270 --> 00:44:48,290
I think they just think stablecoins are important. I don't think it has not much to do. And maybe, if anything, like,

675
00:44:48,670 --> 00:44:56,290
oh, this would be good for Bitcoin because it's all you know, everything for digital assets is you know, if it's good for digital assets, it's good for, you know, all digital assets.

676
00:44:57,055 --> 00:45:06,115
Yeah. And, I mean, you know, by we you and, obviously, obviously, you would you and I would take issue with that and pick it to pieces, but I appreciate where someone, as you say, who's just coming up the learning curve,

677
00:45:06,895 --> 00:45:08,915
would think that that's a rising tide.

678
00:45:09,510 --> 00:45:10,650
On the note of CBDC,

679
00:45:11,270 --> 00:45:15,450
and, again, it's tough to ask you to sort of speak on behalf of of this

680
00:45:15,910 --> 00:45:16,650
this massive,

681
00:45:17,270 --> 00:45:19,050
bureaucracy, and I won't. But

682
00:45:19,430 --> 00:45:20,250
any observations

683
00:45:20,790 --> 00:45:21,290
on

684
00:45:22,674 --> 00:45:23,174
creeping

685
00:45:23,795 --> 00:45:24,295
tendency

686
00:45:25,075 --> 00:45:26,214
or or desires

687
00:45:26,595 --> 00:45:27,734
to turn stablecoins

688
00:45:28,115 --> 00:45:29,095
into a CBDC

689
00:45:29,395 --> 00:45:35,655
by by another name? What's your sort of read on the situation there? I have I have no idea. Fair.

690
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:43,780
Specifically. Like, I don't have, like Not that they would come out and say it to you at a dinner party. Right. Like, you know, we're gonna backdoor this thing into a Chinese style. Yeah.

691
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:45,780
And if they were gonna yeah.

692
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:47,620
But I think,

693
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:53,704
you know, my my gut's like, well, of course. So I'm gonna just try to do something like that. Right.

694
00:45:54,645 --> 00:45:55,145
And,

695
00:45:56,244 --> 00:46:00,744
you know, I think you look at the track record of a lot of these elected officials.

696
00:46:02,085 --> 00:46:08,240
You know, they're pro c b d or they're pro stable coins and pretty not pretty anti CBDC.

697
00:46:08,780 --> 00:46:09,520
And so

698
00:46:11,100 --> 00:46:12,460
I like to think that

699
00:46:12,860 --> 00:46:15,360
I mean, CBDCs do not have a good reputation,

700
00:46:16,060 --> 00:46:17,280
among most politicians.

701
00:46:17,660 --> 00:46:33,075
Like, I think we've and we need to continue. I'm not saying all of them, you know, whatever, but, like Yeah. I mean, the Marxists are the Marxists are probably gonna love it. Yeah. But, They're they're pretty well acquainted with the I like, we if we've and I think we need to keep it up, but it's like,

702
00:46:33,819 --> 00:46:48,780
CBDCs a few years ago, like, I don't know what the hell is that. You know? Now everybody knows, like, oh, yeah. Don't touch that with a two foot pole. Right. Right. Good. That's political rat poison. Yes. At the very least, just to I hope they negative one at a leash. I think they think that. Yeah. And so,

703
00:46:49,765 --> 00:46:51,945
you know, I don't now,

704
00:46:52,965 --> 00:46:55,465
you know, the whole, like, okay. I'm working on this,

705
00:46:56,085 --> 00:46:57,945
and they're working on this, and,

706
00:46:58,405 --> 00:47:00,085
oh, whoops. You know?

707
00:47:00,725 --> 00:47:02,185
That's what we wanna avoid.

708
00:47:02,565 --> 00:47:06,150
I don't I don't think we're close to something like that happening,

709
00:47:06,610 --> 00:47:10,450
but, you know Yeah. You you know, you're gonna have to have some,

710
00:47:11,250 --> 00:47:14,790
you're gonna have to have some people who are way more embedded than I am.

711
00:47:16,205 --> 00:47:19,585
We, you know, we try to keep tabs on all that stuff, but,

712
00:47:20,365 --> 00:47:21,805
primary mission, man, is just,

713
00:47:23,725 --> 00:47:25,825
you know, focusing on Bitcoin and

714
00:47:26,285 --> 00:47:34,070
telling people about it and trying to protect these protect our rights to use it, which I I know is a controversial topic. But,

715
00:47:34,450 --> 00:47:37,590
yeah, I but I love the question. If it is, let's get controversial.

716
00:47:37,890 --> 00:47:40,885
What do you think about some of this stuff? What are you hearing? Ah, man.

717
00:47:41,265 --> 00:47:43,685
You know, I mean, I think it's easy to fall into

718
00:47:44,945 --> 00:47:47,925
a place where more control equals good.

719
00:47:49,025 --> 00:47:50,005
And certainly,

720
00:47:50,305 --> 00:47:51,765
you know, I think for

721
00:47:52,670 --> 00:47:53,570
certain factions,

722
00:47:54,750 --> 00:47:56,210
of the government who

723
00:47:57,710 --> 00:48:00,050
in light of lockdowns, in light

724
00:48:00,750 --> 00:48:08,735
of censorship, broad censorship, in light of a lot of demonstrated behaviors over the last four or five years in particular, it's the slippery slope. You know?

725
00:48:09,215 --> 00:48:13,315
I look to The UK. I look to the entire Commonwealth, and it's just staggering.

726
00:48:14,255 --> 00:48:19,235
Staggering what's going on. You know? I mean, I think I don't have the number at hand, but The UK is

727
00:48:19,850 --> 00:48:22,830
on track to lock up, I think, over a thousand individuals

728
00:48:23,370 --> 00:48:25,310
a month for mean tweets.

729
00:48:25,850 --> 00:48:27,070
I mean, it is just

730
00:48:27,450 --> 00:48:29,790
bonkers. And so on the one hand, I think,

731
00:48:31,130 --> 00:48:34,430
don't count it out. You know? Are we that special? Perhaps not.

732
00:48:35,405 --> 00:48:42,945
On the other, I think, you know, let's not succumb to the black pill. But I I think, you know, we we look around our borders and elsewhere. We look north to Canada,

733
00:48:44,605 --> 00:48:46,305
and a lot of crazy totalitarian

734
00:48:47,660 --> 00:48:49,600
behaviors. And so Mhmm.

735
00:48:50,140 --> 00:48:50,800
You know,

736
00:48:51,260 --> 00:48:53,420
they're not gonna come advertising it, but,

737
00:48:54,380 --> 00:48:56,400
I I I do worry.

738
00:48:57,020 --> 00:48:59,360
I do worry. Yeah. I think it's healthy.

739
00:49:00,174 --> 00:49:01,234
You know, I

740
00:49:01,615 --> 00:49:04,355
think here here too, it's it's a big one, and and,

741
00:49:05,535 --> 00:49:15,154
not sure how much exposure you've had to this. But one of the questions that I put it out to Noster this morning, saying I was gonna be chatting with you, and and one of the questions that came back was,

742
00:49:16,460 --> 00:49:16,960
let's

743
00:49:17,339 --> 00:49:25,680
let's say, and I think it is absolutely demonstrably true that Bitcoin Policy Institute is is winning in as much as we can use that word. I mean, it's a tough battle.

744
00:49:26,380 --> 00:49:28,480
Do more friendly government policies

745
00:49:29,125 --> 00:49:35,225
and, let's say, ETF adoption, does this get us closer to the risk of a sixty one zero two

746
00:49:36,165 --> 00:49:39,125
attack, which for those that don't know, 1933,

747
00:49:39,125 --> 00:49:40,025
president Roosevelt,

748
00:49:42,005 --> 00:49:42,660
you know,

749
00:49:43,220 --> 00:49:43,720
demanded

750
00:49:44,020 --> 00:49:44,520
the

751
00:49:45,220 --> 00:49:49,559
reclamation or, you know, you prohibited the hoarding of gold bullion certificates

752
00:49:49,859 --> 00:49:57,000
requiring citizens to turn their gold over at a fixed price to increase the money supply. So, you know, in short, sixty one zero two attack,

753
00:49:58,885 --> 00:50:05,625
where do you feel we are there? I mean, is is that something you you, as BPI, think about from a policy standpoint?

754
00:50:06,325 --> 00:50:11,144
Or as you say, is it, look, we're gonna do the best we can to advocate for the good stuff, and

755
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,340
and, we'll hope for the best in the other areas.

756
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:15,860
Yeah.

757
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:20,180
I think it's a good question. I think it's a great question and something that,

758
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:22,420
it's a wise question.

759
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:24,660
I think that

760
00:50:28,565 --> 00:50:29,065
if

761
00:50:30,165 --> 00:50:32,345
I it's like kind of a three part answer.

762
00:50:32,645 --> 00:50:34,025
I think that if we,

763
00:50:34,965 --> 00:50:38,265
as Bitcoiners thought, we were you know, Bitcoin was gonna,

764
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:40,380
continue to grow and scale

765
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:41,580
and become,

766
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:46,060
what, you know, many envision it can become,

767
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:47,420
and

768
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:48,540
governments

769
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:50,540
weren't gonna get involved,

770
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,045
or want it. We'll start with companies.

771
00:50:55,065 --> 00:50:55,565
Individuals,

772
00:50:56,025 --> 00:50:57,085
companies, governments

773
00:50:57,465 --> 00:50:58,125
weren't gonna,

774
00:50:58,505 --> 00:51:03,725
you know, want to have some or, you know, wonder about what it could do or not do

775
00:51:04,505 --> 00:51:06,845
for them, then I think you were nuts.

776
00:51:07,225 --> 00:51:07,725
So

777
00:51:08,420 --> 00:51:17,720
I think, you know, let's play it out. I think this is this is sort of an inevitable step. Governments, world powers, at some point, say, we have some Bitcoin.

778
00:51:18,260 --> 00:51:20,360
Should we take it from our people?

779
00:51:21,245 --> 00:51:24,945
Should we ban it? Should we like it? Asking all of those questions.

780
00:51:26,205 --> 00:51:27,025
And so

781
00:51:27,725 --> 00:51:28,705
I don't think

782
00:51:29,245 --> 00:51:31,905
you can look at I think it I think it's

783
00:51:32,525 --> 00:51:33,985
incorrect to look at

784
00:51:34,605 --> 00:51:35,105
advocates

785
00:51:35,610 --> 00:51:36,110
and,

786
00:51:37,130 --> 00:51:37,870
you know,

787
00:51:38,650 --> 00:51:39,390
whether it's

788
00:51:40,090 --> 00:51:40,590
lobbyists,

789
00:51:41,850 --> 00:51:42,350
advocates,

790
00:51:42,650 --> 00:51:45,310
think tanks, groups like BPI or other groups,

791
00:51:45,850 --> 00:51:46,590
and say,

792
00:51:47,690 --> 00:51:52,305
you're telling you're telling them the bit. You know? You're spilling the beans in Washington DC,

793
00:51:53,645 --> 00:51:55,505
and and you're increasing awareness.

794
00:51:56,285 --> 00:52:00,545
And this thing that was gonna be secret that the government was never gonna figure out,

795
00:52:01,245 --> 00:52:11,290
now you're putting a target on our back. Right? I think that's actually incorrect. That I don't have I I struggle to follow that logic. So this is the the most direct answer I can give.

796
00:52:12,150 --> 00:52:13,369
However, I think

797
00:52:13,910 --> 00:52:17,849
if we were to say, you know, Bitcoin's gonna continue to scale and flourish,

798
00:52:18,315 --> 00:52:19,214
governments, corporations,

799
00:52:19,994 --> 00:52:24,015
you know, whoever are gonna begin are gonna become increasingly interested,

800
00:52:25,195 --> 00:52:30,015
goes from kind of the fly buzzing around the head to, like, you know, something we take a little more seriously.

801
00:52:30,635 --> 00:52:32,095
And like I said before,

802
00:52:32,750 --> 00:52:36,130
well, what does that mean when they start to take it seriously? Are they going to

803
00:52:36,510 --> 00:52:38,770
fall in love with it and think this is the most, like,

804
00:52:39,470 --> 00:52:41,809
you know, this is the, you know,

805
00:52:42,190 --> 00:52:50,075
this new freedom technology. I can't wait to unleash it for our, you know, United States citizens. Would have loved, and here we are. Yeah.

806
00:52:50,855 --> 00:52:51,755
Man. Finally.

807
00:52:53,895 --> 00:52:54,395
Or

808
00:52:55,015 --> 00:52:57,755
or something that's you know, something sinister

809
00:52:58,055 --> 00:52:59,355
or something in between.

810
00:53:00,140 --> 00:53:01,520
I think the best way

811
00:53:01,820 --> 00:53:02,320
to

812
00:53:03,020 --> 00:53:04,240
hedge against

813
00:53:05,100 --> 00:53:05,920
poor outcomes

814
00:53:07,420 --> 00:53:09,280
is to begin building,

815
00:53:11,500 --> 00:53:12,160
an understanding

816
00:53:13,340 --> 00:53:14,560
first. This isn't

817
00:53:15,245 --> 00:53:17,105
this isn't dangerous to the country.

818
00:53:18,365 --> 00:53:20,785
This is something that could be good for the country.

819
00:53:22,045 --> 00:53:25,185
Look at everyone who owns it and uses it,

820
00:53:25,485 --> 00:53:28,145
and not just so number go up, but because

821
00:53:28,685 --> 00:53:30,705
it's important to us that

822
00:53:32,540 --> 00:53:33,840
that we have the freedom

823
00:53:34,300 --> 00:53:39,040
to self custody this, that the government doesn't interfere with this Yes. That we can,

824
00:53:40,460 --> 00:53:41,120
we can,

825
00:53:41,580 --> 00:53:44,240
have developers that are working on open source projects,

826
00:53:45,180 --> 00:53:46,080
that we can,

827
00:53:47,395 --> 00:53:49,255
have developers that are building noncustodial

828
00:53:49,635 --> 00:53:50,135
tools.

829
00:53:50,515 --> 00:53:51,015
These

830
00:53:51,395 --> 00:53:53,895
are essential freedoms that we must protect,

831
00:53:54,995 --> 00:54:02,910
at the individual level, but also make that case that this isn't just good for us. This isn't second amendment.

832
00:54:03,690 --> 00:54:10,830
In case, you know, you guys come for us, we got all the guns too, but this is good for the country and helps

833
00:54:11,370 --> 00:54:12,830
guarantee our own,

834
00:54:13,290 --> 00:54:14,510
this, like, decentralization

835
00:54:15,690 --> 00:54:16,750
protects us.

836
00:54:17,565 --> 00:54:20,065
It's, you know, it's hard we're you know,

837
00:54:22,605 --> 00:54:31,744
you know, like, a thousand straws type bundle of straw type thing. So I think sorry. Bundle of sticks. Right. Right. You you know, from we have we have

838
00:54:32,150 --> 00:54:34,330
emerging existential threats from

839
00:54:35,430 --> 00:54:36,650
other nation states,

840
00:54:37,670 --> 00:54:43,290
from, you know, whatever, AI, from quantum, all these sort of crazy things that are happening.

841
00:54:43,830 --> 00:54:44,330
And

842
00:54:44,630 --> 00:54:45,510
don't you think,

843
00:54:46,355 --> 00:54:48,214
single points of failure are

844
00:54:48,595 --> 00:54:51,414
probably not the direction we want to head? Centralization

845
00:54:51,795 --> 00:54:56,214
is I'm just kind of riffing right now. But, like, we start making these cases,

846
00:54:57,315 --> 00:54:57,815
and

847
00:54:58,355 --> 00:54:59,815
we start having champions.

848
00:55:00,540 --> 00:55:14,560
The worst thing that can happen, the absolute worst thing that can happen was for this thing to go Bitcoin to reach the highest levels of government and get on their radar, and nobody knows what the hell it is. No one knows who to talk to, to ask important questions.

849
00:55:15,625 --> 00:55:24,045
No one knows which parts are important or what's not or how it all works. Listening to Elizabeth Warren instead of listening to you. Yeah. So to me, that's terrifying

850
00:55:24,425 --> 00:55:27,565
is you have a like, right now let's talk about it right now.

851
00:55:28,130 --> 00:55:35,670
Number five asset in the world. I know it's probably not after after the last twenty four hour twelve hours. We'll be back. We were yeah. We we will be back.

852
00:55:36,450 --> 00:55:37,430
Number five,

853
00:55:37,810 --> 00:55:39,350
on its way to number one,

854
00:55:39,954 --> 00:55:40,934
the most powerful

855
00:55:41,474 --> 00:55:43,655
country, I think, in the history of civilization.

856
00:55:44,434 --> 00:55:47,734
President's talking about it, vice president's talking about it, everybody's talking about it,

857
00:55:48,194 --> 00:55:50,055
and nobody knows what the hell it is,

858
00:55:50,355 --> 00:55:52,694
and nobody knows who to talk to or trust.

859
00:55:53,430 --> 00:55:59,210
And, so you never know who's gonna walk into that room. We just felt that. We felt a just a little taste of that,

860
00:55:59,510 --> 00:56:01,930
in the aftermath of the election when it was like,

861
00:56:02,630 --> 00:56:19,194
you know, you never knew who was in the white in the Oval Office talking about SBRs and all sorts of other executive orders, and you saw how that played out. Imagine that at scale. And so I think it's actually I think just to recap, it was inevitable that the White House is gonna talk about Bitcoin if you think Bitcoin is what it is.

862
00:56:19,575 --> 00:56:21,434
It's inevitable that the national security

863
00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:23,440
apparatus is gonna be talking about Bitcoin,

864
00:56:23,740 --> 00:56:26,559
that it was gonna be sliding across their desks at some point.

865
00:56:27,099 --> 00:56:30,559
And I think it's better to have had the conversations,

866
00:56:30,859 --> 00:56:33,839
to have the introductions, to have the education, a baseline

867
00:56:34,385 --> 00:56:36,005
education. And you build

868
00:56:36,625 --> 00:56:44,785
you build that in congress, you build that in the, you know, departments, you find allies that you find people you know, there may be a Sean Yeager in the,

869
00:56:45,265 --> 00:56:47,685
department of justice. You know? There may be people,

870
00:56:48,290 --> 00:56:51,270
there's Bitcoiners that are in, you know,

871
00:56:52,290 --> 00:56:53,430
the national security,

872
00:56:54,050 --> 00:56:54,710
you know,

873
00:56:55,010 --> 00:56:55,510
space

874
00:56:55,810 --> 00:57:00,230
that they care and they get it, and they've been here for a long time. They've been here longer than I have.

875
00:57:01,095 --> 00:57:11,755
And let's find these people, and let's let's give them resources to help them have more influence. I'm like, yo. You need to talk to this guy. Listen to him when he's talking about Bitcoin. No. You're not gonna do that.

876
00:57:12,775 --> 00:57:21,940
You ban self custody out of your mind. You understand the implications of that for our country? You understand what it's gonna do and how that's gonna help our rivals and hurt our allies?

877
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:27,460
And so you begin to and, like, oh, yeah. And I think that's that's why

878
00:57:27,905 --> 00:57:30,325
that's why we're here. That's why DPI exists

879
00:57:30,785 --> 00:57:32,484
is to help bridge that gap

880
00:57:32,865 --> 00:57:33,605
and to,

881
00:57:34,305 --> 00:57:39,685
you know, if it's quarterback, if it's coach on the sideline, whatever metaphor you wanna use to help coordinate,

882
00:57:40,385 --> 00:57:41,685
the players in the field.

883
00:57:42,039 --> 00:57:46,140
And, when we see a gap, we'll find a player and get them in. You know? And so,

884
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:48,460
that's my answer to that.

885
00:57:50,599 --> 00:57:54,039
And I think it's a great question. I'll dismiss the question. And I just

886
00:57:55,065 --> 00:58:04,285
I think if you haven't been, you know, kinda doing some of this work, it probably is hard to see, like Absolutely. Are we tipping our hand here? Like Right. And and that doesn't mean that

887
00:58:04,744 --> 00:58:05,805
the fight's over.

888
00:58:06,185 --> 00:58:08,365
That doesn't mean that none of those things,

889
00:58:09,270 --> 00:58:12,710
you know, are are gonna happen or that, you know, that,

890
00:58:13,990 --> 00:58:14,570
you know,

891
00:58:15,510 --> 00:58:19,370
I think the other side of it is and you talk about a sixty one zero two.

892
00:58:20,550 --> 00:58:23,610
I think that's personally, I think that's why an SBR is important.

893
00:58:24,965 --> 00:58:26,905
You know? If you don't have any gold

894
00:58:27,605 --> 00:58:35,385
and you're you know, everybody around does, you're kinda like, man, I probably I wonder if they they should give me a little bit of that. Yeah. If you have your own stash,

895
00:58:36,165 --> 00:58:40,730
if you have your own stash, then, you know, maybe you're a little less likely to to,

896
00:58:41,830 --> 00:58:42,730
to go foraging.

897
00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:45,530
So Although, you know, I think in fairness,

898
00:58:46,310 --> 00:58:51,050
it didn't stop them from coming after the gold. But, I mean, I think That's true. And, you know, I think California

899
00:58:51,750 --> 00:58:55,210
I don't know. I've had some some conversations with some people about this

900
00:58:55,605 --> 00:58:56,105
recent,

901
00:58:57,685 --> 00:58:58,505
state level,

902
00:58:59,765 --> 00:59:02,585
proposed legislation in California that if your

903
00:59:03,285 --> 00:59:12,330
crypto sits on an exchange for three years, you know, and is that is that seizure? Is that custody? Is that, you know, whatever?

904
00:59:13,350 --> 00:59:15,050
But I think those are going out. Theft

905
00:59:15,350 --> 00:59:19,370
is what it sounds like to me. Yeah. Which which, you know, they they tend to excel at.

906
00:59:20,285 --> 00:59:23,825
Well, I mean, so so as we as we wrap up, Steve, this has been terrific.

907
00:59:25,005 --> 00:59:35,505
I've asked a lot of hard questions, so let me ask you one more. In in the spirit of Bitcoin and don't trust verify, because, you know, some would say how much trust I I got this question. How much trust should we place in politicians,

908
00:59:36,180 --> 00:59:39,720
you know, to support, not impede Bitcoin? My answer is zero.

909
00:59:41,780 --> 00:59:45,880
And so if you look out five years, let's say, what is

910
00:59:47,780 --> 00:59:51,555
what are you hopeful hopeful for? What is your best case scenario

911
00:59:52,015 --> 00:59:52,755
in terms

912
00:59:53,455 --> 00:59:54,675
of the right

913
00:59:55,135 --> 00:59:57,715
levers, the right tools being in place

914
00:59:58,415 --> 01:00:03,470
at presumably the federal level so that we don't have to trust, so that we can verify

915
01:00:03,850 --> 01:00:04,170
that,

916
01:00:04,730 --> 01:00:05,790
we as individuals

917
01:00:06,970 --> 01:00:08,750
are safe and sound

918
01:00:09,850 --> 01:00:11,050
in in,

919
01:00:11,450 --> 01:00:14,110
the use of of of our money over Bitcoin.

920
01:00:14,605 --> 01:00:21,825
What's what's yeah. What's BPI? What do you think what what does great success for BPI look like in five years? Let's put it that way. I think that,

921
01:00:23,165 --> 01:00:26,065
I think the more of the stuff that we just get codified

922
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:27,340
via

923
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:28,380
congress

924
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:30,300
and, hey. I get

925
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:31,820
it. People are like,

926
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:33,660
we don't have to ask permission

927
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:36,600
to do these things. You know? We don't have to

928
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:39,820
we don't need to like, it's like,

929
01:00:41,905 --> 01:00:43,285
we don't need to ask permission

930
01:00:44,145 --> 01:00:49,285
to use self, you know, custodial tools and these sorts of things, and I get that. I I agree.

931
01:00:50,944 --> 01:00:52,164
At the same time, like,

932
01:00:52,865 --> 01:00:55,684
people are being rounded up and thrown in prison

933
01:00:56,070 --> 01:00:56,570
for,

934
01:00:58,230 --> 01:01:00,250
for building these types of services.

935
01:01:00,950 --> 01:01:01,770
And so,

936
01:01:02,150 --> 01:01:04,570
you know, I think there's some legal battles we need to win.

937
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:08,490
There's some legal precedent we need to set.

938
01:01:09,515 --> 01:01:11,115
And I think, you know

939
01:01:11,755 --> 01:01:14,255
so that's the justice department side. I think,

940
01:01:15,195 --> 01:01:16,895
executive orders are still helpful.

941
01:01:18,715 --> 01:01:19,295
You know,

942
01:01:19,755 --> 01:01:21,775
even just the signal is helpful

943
01:01:22,235 --> 01:01:24,720
of, like, oh, this is what we're doing,

944
01:01:25,660 --> 01:01:28,160
for other elected officials and agencies.

945
01:01:29,260 --> 01:01:31,040
They do last sometimes.

946
01:01:31,340 --> 01:01:32,000
You know?

947
01:01:32,540 --> 01:01:33,040
And,

948
01:01:34,140 --> 01:01:39,595
they help encourage the legislative process, so I think we need to get, you know, the Bitcoin Act done,

949
01:01:41,095 --> 01:01:44,635
and just codify as much of this as we can. I think we have,

950
01:01:45,575 --> 01:01:49,435
right now, we're in the midst of, like, I hope it's not true, but it could be.

951
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:55,260
I know some people laugh, but I think we're this is like a very

952
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:56,060
unique

953
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:57,660
window of opportunity

954
01:01:58,120 --> 01:01:59,020
where we have

955
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:01,020
political alignment,

956
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,055
or we have people who care people in office who care,

957
01:02:05,515 --> 01:02:08,015
who at least wanna try to help. And

958
01:02:08,475 --> 01:02:10,095
I think you have to seize that,

959
01:02:10,875 --> 01:02:12,655
because you might not get it again.

960
01:02:13,755 --> 01:02:14,255
And

961
01:02:15,355 --> 01:02:17,295
if you're the type of person who think

962
01:02:18,230 --> 01:02:21,049
or you got you got some hard battles down the road, right,

963
01:02:21,829 --> 01:02:23,450
over the next five, ten years

964
01:02:24,549 --> 01:02:26,089
as an industry, then

965
01:02:26,789 --> 01:02:28,490
you want to make hay

966
01:02:29,349 --> 01:02:31,049
in the meantime when you can.

967
01:02:32,035 --> 01:02:36,375
Let's just say whatever. Let's say there's a massive political blowback against the industry.

968
01:02:37,395 --> 01:02:39,575
Let's say, you know, at some point,

969
01:02:40,115 --> 01:02:42,935
there's a different political party in charge

970
01:02:43,315 --> 01:02:44,135
with the majority,

971
01:02:46,420 --> 01:02:46,920
and

972
01:02:48,100 --> 01:02:49,960
they're pissed off. You know?

973
01:02:51,300 --> 01:02:54,040
Or just doing what they already like to do.

974
01:02:55,220 --> 01:02:56,140
Like I said,

975
01:02:56,580 --> 01:03:00,920
and I'm not saying one or the other. I'm just saying, you know Yeah. Look at what they're doing and Yeah.

976
01:03:01,405 --> 01:03:06,785
Strike all the EOs and yeah. Right. And so, you know, I think

977
01:03:07,725 --> 01:03:09,025
so right now,

978
01:03:10,205 --> 01:03:12,785
get some of these things done. Get these priorities done.

979
01:03:14,060 --> 01:03:16,480
It's passed, I assume. Lost passed. The DDoS.

980
01:03:16,940 --> 01:03:21,920
Bitcoin act, you know, reinforce self custody. Get a cod fight in the law.

981
01:03:23,260 --> 01:03:24,800
Clear up the

982
01:03:26,205 --> 01:03:26,865
sort of

983
01:03:27,245 --> 01:03:28,465
vague regulatory

984
01:03:30,765 --> 01:03:34,865
language that's used to it has has been used to weaponize

985
01:03:35,725 --> 01:03:37,905
against the industry and debank the industry.

986
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:40,300
When the rules are gray,

987
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:42,280
you know, it's easier to,

988
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:45,500
you know, you kinda bend them around and use

989
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:51,580
them use them for whatever you want against whoever you want. And so when the rules are clear,

990
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:53,480
it's not just

991
01:03:54,040 --> 01:04:00,115
you know, you always hear, like, we need to know the regulation so we know what to do as a business, which is true.

992
01:04:00,815 --> 01:04:18,990
You know, with the tariffs. Like, you heard, like, the tariffs. It was like, I don't care what the number is. Let's just set it so I can figure out how to run my business based on it. Like, wolf. I read something. It's like, I don't care if it's tariff 60%. I'm gonna run a successful business. But if they're going from 60 to 30 to 80 to 20, that's when you I mean, nobody can adapt,

993
01:04:19,530 --> 01:04:22,750
and and survive. Well, so So it's the same thing with with regulation.

994
01:04:23,130 --> 01:04:23,630
Like,

995
01:04:24,705 --> 01:04:40,090
I don't care what the regulations are, but I need to know what they are in order to but, you know, the other side is when they're unclear, I can use them to to kind of, make them say whatever I want. So there's that. And then the big one, they're all big, but the other big one

996
01:04:40,870 --> 01:04:41,370
is

997
01:04:42,790 --> 01:04:43,290
bipartisanship.

998
01:04:46,070 --> 01:04:46,810
I think

999
01:04:47,430 --> 01:04:52,935
then that's something we focus on. We're, you know, we're c three in our charter. We're nonpartisan.

1000
01:04:53,475 --> 01:04:57,015
We can only work with people who work with us. You know? You can only have the conversation,

1001
01:04:57,635 --> 01:04:59,335
someone who will talk to you.

1002
01:05:00,275 --> 01:05:01,655
But we have found

1003
01:05:02,195 --> 01:05:04,855
allies on both sides of the aisle. We've you know?

1004
01:05:06,010 --> 01:05:08,190
It's no surprise, like, Republicans are,

1005
01:05:08,890 --> 01:05:11,550
and have been, like, a little more open to that conversation,

1006
01:05:12,010 --> 01:05:13,710
but we've seen a lot of Democrats,

1007
01:05:14,330 --> 01:05:16,730
start to engage and get it. And I,

1008
01:05:17,610 --> 01:05:21,625
you know, I had a conversation with an elected official this year

1009
01:05:22,405 --> 01:05:23,705
who's kinda working on something,

1010
01:05:24,245 --> 01:05:26,105
and I'm just bumped into him.

1011
01:05:27,045 --> 01:05:34,470
And here's his BPI and different things. He's like, yeah. I've been thinking about I'm gonna be talking about this. I'm being vague on purpose. I'm gonna be talking about

1012
01:05:34,849 --> 01:05:35,589
this. And,

1013
01:05:36,769 --> 01:05:43,349
and, you know, what do you think? And I said and this this is, this is a democratic party member. I said

1014
01:05:43,890 --> 01:05:51,085
I was kind of you know, basically, like, what's the most important thing that I can be talking about when it comes to Bitcoin? And I was like,

1015
01:05:52,505 --> 01:05:54,925
wasn't a lot. I said, but one of them,

1016
01:05:55,705 --> 01:06:04,750
like, that's important to me is that this does not become a political football that we get kicked back and forth from one part or the other. And when somebody's in charge, we get beat up, and we got

1017
01:06:05,050 --> 01:06:06,670
like, that I don't want that.

1018
01:06:07,610 --> 01:06:09,950
And, like, anybody wants that, but that's,

1019
01:06:10,890 --> 01:06:12,730
you know, that's the scariest part. Yeah.

1020
01:06:13,370 --> 01:06:15,150
And so I think

1021
01:06:15,875 --> 01:06:19,015
reaching out, like, the work's not done, man.

1022
01:06:19,795 --> 01:06:25,335
Yeah. Okay. One one party cares. Vice presidents and presidents are talking about it. Like,

1023
01:06:25,795 --> 01:06:27,655
we we still have another

1024
01:06:28,115 --> 01:06:29,015
half of the country,

1025
01:06:29,875 --> 01:06:30,375
that

1026
01:06:32,460 --> 01:06:37,680
should understand and should appreciate Bitcoin, and I think I think they can. I think there's

1027
01:06:38,220 --> 01:06:44,000
there's many I think just because you have to vote for one party or another party doesn't mean you're, like,

1028
01:06:45,714 --> 01:06:53,095
not the type of person who under could understand or appreciate Bitcoin, or I think it's important. I actually completely disagree with that premise.

1029
01:06:53,474 --> 01:06:56,775
I think I can disagree with people on a lot of different things

1030
01:06:57,234 --> 01:06:59,175
and find common ground on,

1031
01:07:00,780 --> 01:07:02,720
on these important, like, foundational,

1032
01:07:03,820 --> 01:07:04,960
principles, like,

1033
01:07:05,900 --> 01:07:07,680
being able to do what you want

1034
01:07:07,980 --> 01:07:08,800
with your money,

1035
01:07:09,340 --> 01:07:12,240
being able to hold money that, you know,

1036
01:07:12,540 --> 01:07:13,760
can't be just

1037
01:07:14,105 --> 01:07:15,944
inflated to nothing Yeah.

1038
01:07:16,744 --> 01:07:18,125
That across the world,

1039
01:07:19,865 --> 01:07:22,365
Bitcoin has has proven itself to be

1040
01:07:22,825 --> 01:07:26,125
one of the most powerful human rights tools that we have,

1041
01:07:27,609 --> 01:07:28,430
One of the

1042
01:07:28,730 --> 01:07:29,230
few.

1043
01:07:29,690 --> 01:07:30,190
Yes.

1044
01:07:32,650 --> 01:07:34,170
And so I think there are

1045
01:07:35,130 --> 01:07:35,790
so, yeah,

1046
01:07:36,490 --> 01:07:37,630
to I

1047
01:07:37,930 --> 01:07:39,070
kinda went around.

1048
01:07:39,450 --> 01:07:40,750
I'm sure you're shocked.

1049
01:07:41,984 --> 01:07:45,365
But in five years, I think I mean, in five years, I think we need

1050
01:07:46,224 --> 01:07:48,964
champions on both sides of the aisle. I think this needs to become,

1051
01:07:50,145 --> 01:07:51,765
I think Bitcoin and,

1052
01:07:52,305 --> 01:07:53,285
Bitcoin network.

1053
01:07:53,810 --> 01:07:55,910
It'd be great if it became something that's

1054
01:07:57,810 --> 01:08:00,790
like, we've we've sort of risen past the

1055
01:08:02,450 --> 01:08:08,630
I mean, kinda like the Internet. Yeah. Yeah. Kinda like, oh, okay. Like, nobody's against the Internet.

1056
01:08:09,625 --> 01:08:19,245
We need that. Right. The postal the postal service was once very anti, but here we are. Right? I mean, so Right. Yeah. And and I think that's that would be a that would be incredible.

1057
01:08:19,625 --> 01:08:26,690
I think it's possible is what I'm trying to say. I think it's possible. There's a lot of work. I think there's a lot of things that can go wrong sideways, but I think that's that's what we're trying to do.

1058
01:08:28,610 --> 01:08:30,130
That's what we're trying to do. And,

1059
01:08:30,610 --> 01:08:42,525
I think we've, you know, like I said, we've worked with any everyone who'll work with us, and we always will. And we appreciate those those, you know, people, those elected officials. Like, we we're we're very grateful,

1060
01:08:42,985 --> 01:08:49,645
because a lot of things they can spend their time on. And there's a lot of things that are important that they could spend their time on, not just special interest.

1061
01:08:50,265 --> 01:08:52,045
And, so, you know,

1062
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:57,340
we appreciate that, but we're also gonna work with we we wanna work with everybody because we think it's that important.

1063
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:06,699
So that's one. Yeah. And I think codifying a lot of this, strike while the iron's hot. Yep. You know? Hope for tomorrow, but, you know, prepare,

1064
01:09:08,045 --> 01:09:09,245
you know, for other

1065
01:09:10,925 --> 01:09:11,425
Eventualities.

1066
01:09:11,804 --> 01:09:13,185
Yeah. Scenarios, eventualities,

1067
01:09:14,045 --> 01:09:19,140
and, because you never know what's around the corner. So I think if you can

1068
01:09:19,540 --> 01:09:25,640
get some wins right now, you got it. Like, you you gotta seize the the moment. And that's why I think this Bitcoin actor is

1069
01:09:26,020 --> 01:09:28,840
just super important. Yeah. There's so much in there.

1070
01:09:29,540 --> 01:09:31,160
That would be it would be a huge

1071
01:09:31,935 --> 01:09:36,755
win. And it would it would you know, is it prevent all the dark scenarios

1072
01:09:37,135 --> 01:09:37,795
and things?

1073
01:09:38,255 --> 01:09:40,435
Can anything prevent that? I don't know.

1074
01:09:40,815 --> 01:09:42,514
But I think every

1075
01:09:43,135 --> 01:09:43,635
notch,

1076
01:09:44,300 --> 01:09:45,120
every win,

1077
01:09:45,739 --> 01:09:46,220
every,

1078
01:09:46,700 --> 01:09:49,760
speed bump you can that you wanna put between that,

1079
01:09:51,020 --> 01:09:51,680
you know,

1080
01:09:52,540 --> 01:09:55,120
I think that, helps a lot. Absolutely.

1081
01:09:55,500 --> 01:10:01,844
And it discourages people even thinking about it. It's like It's It's in it's in the foundation. It's in the rebar. It's made law.

1082
01:10:02,145 --> 01:10:05,285
Yeah. Put the sign outside that says security system

1083
01:10:05,665 --> 01:10:10,085
in in your house. Right. You know? Somebody else. Just put the light on.

1084
01:10:10,785 --> 01:10:13,445
Go go, yeah, go pick a fight somewhere else, man.

1085
01:10:13,905 --> 01:10:23,420
Well, so speaking of picking a fight, here's one. So Oh, let's roll, dude. We were to go on to prediction markets. I kid. It's not really a fight, but prediction markets, and we're doing a prop bet

1086
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:26,620
on rolling back the bank secrecy act.

1087
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:29,260
What are the odds on that one?

1088
01:10:30,784 --> 01:10:38,804
What what are your odds? I have no idea. Somewhere between zero and five, but, I'm thinking of our friend, Matt O'Dell, and,

1089
01:10:39,344 --> 01:10:39,844
his

1090
01:10:40,625 --> 01:10:41,445
very admirable,

1091
01:10:42,430 --> 01:10:46,690
you know, I think challenge that that next it's next it's roll back the BSA.

1092
01:10:47,310 --> 01:10:52,130
I mean, you know, and I'll I'll ask that half jokingly, but, I mean, do you think that sort of thing

1093
01:10:52,830 --> 01:10:56,930
is necessary? Or to your prior comments, can can we get

1094
01:10:57,385 --> 01:10:58,525
the Bitcoin act,

1095
01:10:59,065 --> 01:11:03,565
you know, passed, and and that gives us at least a strong foundation?

1096
01:11:04,745 --> 01:11:06,605
In other words, how much does,

1097
01:11:08,025 --> 01:11:14,200
you know, the the the big the the Bank Secrecy Act allows god knows what to happen in the backgrounds and, you know,

1098
01:11:14,739 --> 01:11:15,139
it's

1099
01:11:15,540 --> 01:11:17,320
in my view, it is clearly

1100
01:11:18,100 --> 01:11:18,600
extrajudicial

1101
01:11:19,300 --> 01:11:19,800
surveillance.

1102
01:11:20,100 --> 01:11:27,005
Maybe I shouldn't even have gone down this one, but, you know, I guess I guess the question is, does something that seemingly

1103
01:11:27,385 --> 01:11:27,885
unlikely

1104
01:11:28,425 --> 01:11:30,605
need to happen to really unlock

1105
01:11:31,225 --> 01:11:36,365
the freedom to use or the lack of interference to use Bitcoin, or could the Bitcoin act

1106
01:11:37,145 --> 01:11:37,645
be

1107
01:11:38,025 --> 01:11:39,325
a strong enough start?

1108
01:11:40,060 --> 01:11:41,360
To be honest with you,

1109
01:11:43,100 --> 01:11:46,000
I think you're asking the wrong guy. I'm No. That's alright.

1110
01:11:46,699 --> 01:11:47,020
I,

1111
01:11:47,580 --> 01:11:48,480
I don't know.

1112
01:11:49,100 --> 01:11:54,000
Yeah. To be honest with you, I'm not gonna we that was a tough question. There were lots of tough questions. Yeah. I I just,

1113
01:11:56,074 --> 01:12:08,495
you know, I think I think get the I think getting Bitcoin act done will be would be huge. Yeah. I mean, and I asked that, Steve. Yeah. Not to put you too on the spot, but I guess I guess as, you know, as

1114
01:12:09,050 --> 01:12:23,950
as a lens into BPI's priorities, I presume if collectively BPI thought thought thought that was crucial or plausible or worth the investment that it would be on the radar, it sounds like, you know, unless it's unless it's simmering underneath that that's not

1115
01:12:24,614 --> 01:12:27,195
a place where there's a lot of focus right now.

1116
01:12:27,894 --> 01:12:28,394
Well,

1117
01:12:28,695 --> 01:12:30,315
I think that you should have

1118
01:12:30,695 --> 01:12:38,715
Zach Shapiro or or Matt Pines on to talk about that. That's that's all I'm saying. Fair. Fair. You know, I I wanna I'm just

1119
01:12:39,380 --> 01:12:47,000
I wanna do it justice and want you know, you need to you need to get one of our policy experts on the right way. A deep rabbit hole. It's a deep rabbit hole. You're you're,

1120
01:12:47,380 --> 01:12:49,560
you're going so far out my orbit, man.

1121
01:12:50,180 --> 01:12:52,885
Sorry about that. But, it's all good. I I,

1122
01:12:53,345 --> 01:12:54,965
I love it. I love the question.

1123
01:12:55,345 --> 01:13:00,325
And I'd I'd like to hear what, you know, I'd like to hear what some some others have to say. We'll do it.

1124
01:13:00,705 --> 01:13:06,005
Well, let's let's wrap up here. Tell any tales outside of school that I No. No. That I'm too familiar with.

1125
01:13:06,310 --> 01:13:06,550
What,

1126
01:13:07,909 --> 01:13:09,130
last last note,

1127
01:13:09,750 --> 01:13:10,730
what is

1128
01:13:12,070 --> 01:13:17,510
what's keeping you bullish? What are you what are you pumped about? What are you excited about? What's what's coming up that's that's got you,

1129
01:13:18,790 --> 01:13:20,170
yeah, that's got you hopeful?

1130
01:13:20,685 --> 01:13:23,965
I will talk my back for for a minute here. Yeah. Please.

1131
01:13:25,245 --> 01:13:28,305
I and it's not just about, you know,

1132
01:13:30,285 --> 01:13:33,905
BPI and promoting promoting BPI. It's really not about that.

1133
01:13:34,525 --> 01:13:36,980
But our summit is gonna be unbelievable.

1134
01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:40,660
Bitcoin policy summit, Washington, DC,

1135
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:42,740
June 25,

1136
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:43,540
and

1137
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:45,940
so I mean, soon. Yeah.

1138
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:48,020
And like I mentioned,

1139
01:13:49,845 --> 01:13:51,065
deputy director CIA,

1140
01:13:51,525 --> 01:13:53,065
Michael Ellis, is gonna be there.

1141
01:13:53,765 --> 01:13:58,025
Beau Hines, you know, all the all the I think we have, like, nine congressmen,

1142
01:13:59,685 --> 01:14:00,745
three or four senators

1143
01:14:01,125 --> 01:14:01,625
speaking,

1144
01:14:03,820 --> 01:14:04,440
and Hester

1145
01:14:05,060 --> 01:14:06,040
Pierce. So

1146
01:14:06,580 --> 01:14:08,760
from the, you know, political side,

1147
01:14:10,020 --> 01:14:10,520
massive.

1148
01:14:10,900 --> 01:14:11,400
And

1149
01:14:12,500 --> 01:14:16,040
this is our third summit. And so I have the

1150
01:14:17,275 --> 01:14:19,295
privilege of seeing this from,

1151
01:14:19,835 --> 01:14:25,535
hey. Should we do a policy summit? Like, what would that even be? Like, who would come to that?

1152
01:14:26,475 --> 01:14:35,270
Bitcoiners don't know anything about policy, and policy makers don't know anything about Bitcoin. Is this a good idea? It was like, well, that means it's a great idea. It's a it's a chance

1153
01:14:35,570 --> 01:14:38,470
to bridge that gap, and that was kind of the goal.

1154
01:14:39,730 --> 01:14:41,030
FTX had just

1155
01:14:41,490 --> 01:14:42,310
just melted,

1156
01:14:43,170 --> 01:14:43,990
nuclear meltdown,

1157
01:14:44,985 --> 01:14:45,885
And everyone

1158
01:14:46,665 --> 01:14:52,605
was suddenly a little familiar with Bitcoin, and they thought it was a massive fraud. Mhmm. It was their first

1159
01:14:53,705 --> 01:14:55,005
their first introduction.

1160
01:14:55,305 --> 01:14:57,085
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1161
01:14:58,610 --> 01:15:03,190
And it's like showing up the first day of school, and you forgot to wear your pants. You know?

1162
01:15:03,969 --> 01:15:05,030
It's like, great.

1163
01:15:05,889 --> 01:15:06,710
First impressions.

1164
01:15:07,809 --> 01:15:09,030
So we were like

1165
01:15:09,570 --> 01:15:12,389
we decided to lean into it, a few years ago.

1166
01:15:12,849 --> 01:15:14,230
FTX melted down,

1167
01:15:15,344 --> 01:15:15,844
and

1168
01:15:16,385 --> 01:15:18,565
millions of people lost lots of money.

1169
01:15:19,505 --> 01:15:21,445
Come to the summit and learn about Bitcoin.

1170
01:15:22,385 --> 01:15:23,844
There's more to the story.

1171
01:15:24,385 --> 01:15:29,364
That was kind of the thing. Like, let's just lean into it. Like, hey. This horrible thing happened,

1172
01:15:30,450 --> 01:15:33,030
and we're not gonna we're not gonna hide it.

1173
01:15:33,730 --> 01:15:34,850
But we think that,

1174
01:15:35,250 --> 01:15:37,590
if you learn about Bitcoin, I think you'll be surprised.

1175
01:15:38,290 --> 01:15:40,790
And we brought in some of our fellows.

1176
01:15:41,489 --> 01:15:49,015
We brought in everybody who would who would come, and we had a few 100 people show up, high quality. It was it was awesome. It was unbelievable day.

1177
01:15:49,875 --> 01:15:52,375
And that that made me really bullish on BPI.

1178
01:15:52,835 --> 01:15:54,695
That was, like, my first year here.

1179
01:15:55,075 --> 01:15:56,135
And to see

1180
01:15:57,155 --> 01:15:58,695
early on, like, oh, there's

1181
01:15:59,480 --> 01:16:00,540
there's real appetite

1182
01:16:01,239 --> 01:16:09,739
in Washington to, like, kinda start to get your head around this. And there's real people, real big owners in Washington that were just like, finally. Yes.

1183
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:17,505
You know? People talking about mining and energy and security and human rights. Like, this is awesome.

1184
01:16:17,805 --> 01:16:18,545
And so

1185
01:16:18,845 --> 01:16:20,385
last year, we ran it back,

1186
01:16:20,925 --> 01:16:23,985
and it was like, should America embrace Bitcoin?

1187
01:16:25,325 --> 01:16:25,805
And,

1188
01:16:26,445 --> 01:16:28,065
America did, my friend.

1189
01:16:29,020 --> 01:16:30,720
Uh-huh. America did.

1190
01:16:31,100 --> 01:16:33,200
And so this year, it's

1191
01:16:33,900 --> 01:16:35,920
okay. America's embraced Bitcoin.

1192
01:16:36,380 --> 01:16:39,040
Now what now what happens? What happens next?

1193
01:16:39,580 --> 01:16:44,765
And so we're going to more of a master's level. I I think some of the questions you mentioned today,

1194
01:16:46,025 --> 01:16:54,364
you know, my job, I see, isn't, necessarily to answer those questions and have great answers, but to find the people who have the best answers

1195
01:16:54,665 --> 01:17:00,940
and get them in front of the people who are asking them. And so, apologize to your audience if they were hoping for a little more there,

1196
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:05,500
but but I see myself as someone who goes out and helps find,

1197
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:08,140
find the, you know,

1198
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:17,765
find the guy and get them on stage with the US senator and have that conversation. And strategy does not say policy in it. So I Yeah. Yeah. Apologies are for me.

1199
01:17:18,225 --> 01:17:22,325
Yeah. But, but listen. I think this year is going to be,

1200
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:26,380
it's gonna be it's gonna be awesome, man. We're we're doing

1201
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:31,180
it's gonna be eight to five. Boom. Boom. Boom. Doing a series of five minute,

1202
01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:33,980
like, lightning keynotes,

1203
01:17:35,480 --> 01:17:37,980
and it's gonna be high energy.

1204
01:17:38,635 --> 01:17:44,015
I don't know how we're you know, we've got so many incredible speakers. We're just, like, we're stacking them up.

1205
01:17:45,755 --> 01:17:46,815
And and we're doing,

1206
01:17:47,675 --> 01:17:54,110
we're doing a day on the hill on day two, which we've never done. And we're so we're gonna flood the hill with Bitcoiners, talking to elected officials,

1207
01:17:54,650 --> 01:17:59,230
and, kinda, like, just high signal. All a lot of other groups do days on the hill,

1208
01:18:00,650 --> 01:18:07,515
and a kind of a thing you do as a trade association and trade group, but, you know, I think Bitcoiners are built different.

1209
01:18:07,975 --> 01:18:11,115
And, I'm really excited to see the impact of that day.

1210
01:18:11,815 --> 01:18:14,075
Day some days on the hill are kind of a honor,

1211
01:18:14,775 --> 01:18:20,075
depending on who you put. I might imagine. You're only as good as your your members there. And so we're baby.

1212
01:18:20,470 --> 01:18:24,170
Man, I I am really I'm actually really excited about that.

1213
01:18:24,550 --> 01:18:34,890
I think at first, I was like, ah, I've I've, you know, I've been in so many days of the hill, and but this is gonna be different. And, so that's gonna be awesome. We got some round tables we're excited about.

1214
01:18:35,475 --> 01:18:50,614
And, man, we're also at a a a doubling our size and venue, doubling the size of the audience. We just did an event in March. I don't know if I told you this. We did this I mean, I know I told you I did the event, Bitcoin for America, and it was, like, hyper focused on strategic Bitcoin reserve. It was a half day event.

1215
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:51,780
We

1216
01:18:52,080 --> 01:19:08,935
had over a thousand people wanna come to that. And we didn't even know we only had 200 seats, so we had to turn everybody away, ton of people away, which was really sad. We just thought, hey. It's only we turned we spun it up in three weeks. We're like, we're just we didn't do sponsors. We didn't do we just said we're just gonna do this event

1217
01:19:09,395 --> 01:19:10,695
because it needs to happen,

1218
01:19:12,034 --> 01:19:16,295
to help educate everyone and get everybody on the same page of what we want

1219
01:19:16,755 --> 01:19:20,614
out of a strategic Bitcoin reserve and why we think it's important. And, man,

1220
01:19:21,870 --> 01:19:36,449
it it really blew up. So we already had the summit planned for June. So tell everybody, hey. Come to the summit. It's a full day. It's gonna be a lot more fun. You get all the after parties and all that kind of thing. So if anybody wants to wants to, wants to join, it's not too late. We do have some seats available,

1221
01:19:36,885 --> 01:19:40,325
and you can go to btcpolicysummit.org,

1222
01:19:40,325 --> 01:19:42,005
btcpolicysummit.org,

1223
01:19:42,005 --> 01:19:43,385
or you can just go to our website,

1224
01:19:45,205 --> 01:19:46,965
btcpolicy.org,

1225
01:19:46,965 --> 01:19:50,390
and there's a link over there to to go to the summit web page and,

1226
01:19:50,950 --> 01:19:54,810
and get on the line to invite and Absolutely. Love to have you.

1227
01:19:55,590 --> 01:20:00,810
I will endeavor to talk about that, man. Like, it's gonna be sick. Yeah. That's awesome. That is awesome.

1228
01:20:01,590 --> 01:20:05,795
Well, thank you, Steven. Thank you for today. Thank you for the work you do, and thank you to BPI.

1229
01:20:06,175 --> 01:20:07,135
You're out there doing,

1230
01:20:08,735 --> 01:20:16,035
good, important, difficult work, and I am grateful as I know many, many, many people are. So I look forward grateful for you guys. I'm grateful for the community.

1231
01:20:16,575 --> 01:20:17,635
We we've

1232
01:20:18,110 --> 01:20:23,570
existed solely as a as a charity of of, support, and the community's been very supportive.

1233
01:20:24,190 --> 01:20:26,610
I love the, I'll say this. Like,

1234
01:20:27,710 --> 01:20:37,985
sometimes we get feedback, and, Bet you do. Everybody agrees with everything we do. I love that too. Yeah. That's my favorite thing about about Bitcoin and this industry is that,

1235
01:20:39,165 --> 01:20:52,610
we don't agree on everything. I think that's awesome. I think it's a that's a feature, not a bug, and I'm really proud of that. And I'm proud that we still get things accomplished in spite of that. And so, you know, some people, you know, whatever, have a different opinions about

1236
01:20:52,990 --> 01:20:54,130
lots of different things.

1237
01:20:54,750 --> 01:20:56,050
So keep it coming.

1238
01:20:56,830 --> 01:21:01,215
I love reading the feedback and even when it tested me off, And I think it's wrong.

1239
01:21:01,675 --> 01:21:06,175
I think it's great. I think that's the one of the that's one of my favorite things about being a mistake.

1240
01:21:06,795 --> 01:21:14,895
Awesome. Thanks again so much, David. Have a great weekend, and all the best for the summit. Talk to you soon. Thank you, Sean, man. Good to see you. You too. Talk to you soon.