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Rashad, welcome.

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Thank you very much, sir. I appreciate you taking the time today. As we were discussing before we got started,

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though

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book tours are not quite what they used to be, I'm sure your schedule is packed,

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with the work to promote your fantastic new book Rethinking

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Work.

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And that is actually where I'd like to begin.

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I've read it. It's great. I recommend it wholeheartedly. It has given me quite genuinely a lot to think about with regard to my own career

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and the trajectory that it might take over the next

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five to ten years.

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I might not expect you to frame it this way, but I would assert and would love to get your take on this, Rishad,

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that a central theme, if not the central theme effectively, is the decentralization

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of work.

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Would you

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start by highlighting the major themes of the book for those who may not have read it and talk about what unbundled work,

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my words perhaps, although I think you used that word, what does unbundled work look like?

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Absolutely.

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So, yes, I do agree that

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the decentralization

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slash

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unbundling,

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of work is a central theme of the book.

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So I'm gonna begin with a line,

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which

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is as follows.

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I believe that we are

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or have seen

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the

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moment, what I call as peak jobs,

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definitely

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in the Western world, but definitely in The United States.

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So I believe we are now about to see

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high single digit to low double digit

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decline of jobs occurring every year.

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The next few. Which basically means that it is very likely by the end of this decade,

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let's say if it's just single digits,

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in the next five or six years or the end of the next decade or this decade,

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we will have maybe a third fewer jobs

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that currently exist.

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That is pretty significant if you think about it. Now that's my opening statement.

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My second statement so my first statement is we've seen big jobs, and we are in the beginning of the decline of jobs,

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is we are about to see the most amazing

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increase

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in work to be done. And

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I believe the central

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thesis of modern corporations

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and a lot of the economy

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has been that we have equated

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jobs and work as the same thing. And I believe the jobs happen to be a receptacle

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where work gets done,

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and it was a dominant receptacle

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and remains a dominant receptacle today,

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but far less dominant today than it was, let's say, ten, fifteen years ago.

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And it will be the minor

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vehicle of how people find work.

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They'll find work primarily outside a job even though they may have a job. So the underlying

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thesis of the book

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is

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we have to rethink work versus, if you note, I didn't call it rethinking jobs. Jobs. So Absolutely. That's the central and as a result, the forces so someone would say, Rishad, okay. You clearly have drunk a lot and have started to sort

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of hyperventilate

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and lose the plot. All of which is all possible.

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But I start the book with five forces, which I believe are driving the future of work.

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They're intertwined, but I try to tease them out,

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but they connect to each other. One which is the largest one, and I think the most significant one, the one least paid attention to,

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is societal and demographic changes. So

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I'll give you just five statistics or the listeners' five statistics.

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All of which are and my book was published by Harper Collins, so every single

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statement is fact checked. So it's not like I just made these up.

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And each one has a link to where I got it from. But,

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a,

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the

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I'm gonna focus on The US, but this is true in every country in the world outside of seven. So number one,

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US population is about to decline, and it has never declined.

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But now it's about to go into decline.

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And every business and every business plan thinks that they're gonna have more people,

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but this is no longer true.

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It takes 2.1 children per woman to keep the population the same in The United States. That number currently is 1.6.

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The only reason The US population is flat is between one point six and two point one is legal and illegal immigration. You step down

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on illegal immigration,

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you're gonna have a decline.

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You step down or lessen legal and illegal immigration,

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you're gonna really begin to have a decline.

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So one way of solving the job or the job with the housing crisis

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is to build more jobs or to build more houses.

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The other one is to have fewer people who need houses.

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We don't

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I don't think people realize this, but that's our solution.

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We're just gonna have a declining population.

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And

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to anticipate what that means, you have to go

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to Europe to see most of the countries in Europe have a 1.3 number, not a 1.6 number.

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China has a 1.1 number,

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and Korea has a point eight.

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So you're seeing, obviously, lot of unoccupied housing in China

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in part because of mobile building, but in part because there's nobody the population is now stalled and starting to decline.

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You're seeing nursery, kindergarten schools closing all across Korea.

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There's nobody to go to them?

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So that's one. Second is aging populations.

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In The US, Eleven Thousand Five Hundred people go on to Medicare every day. Third is generational

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mindset shifts.

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66%

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of baby boomers like me believe in capitalism. Twenty two percent in gen of Gen z believe in capitalism.

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Sixty seven percent of Gen z who have a full time job have a side gig or side hustle, and 76%

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of Gen z wanna work for themselves. Nobody talks about that. They're talking about going back to the office, which is the biggest red herring in the entire world. It's got nothing to do with the future of work. Okay?

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So that's how this starts. Then it talks about technology. Obviously, those exist where I bring up not just AI, but I bring up Blockchain

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and XR, which is new ways of communicating.

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Then the rise of,

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marketplaces,

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which enable this, you know, whether it's Fiverr, Upwork,

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Shopify,

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Etsy,

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whatever it is. It allows you to both

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get a gig

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and buy a gig, if that makes sense.

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Then, obviously,

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the rise of the gig workers. So this year, more people

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will also work freelance as will have a full time job. And finally, the impact of COVID,

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of which where you worked was the least important impact of COVID.

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What you thought about your boss

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and why you worked was the most impactful.

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And we've entered an age of debossification

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when no one told the bosses that. And people are basically asking,

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wait a second. I had a pretty good life.

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The company did well. I had bunch of flexibility.

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Now why am I going back to this person who's trying to control me?

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Check-in.

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Monitor. So you take those five, which obviously intertwined, and work will never be the same again.

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And

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that's the central thesis of the book that

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we should be rethinking everything.

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And then the rest of the book

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has two sections. One, which is what we should do right away,

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and then the other is to anticipate what the world will look like in 2029.

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And and, again, but no spoilers. But, can you can you give us a hint of what that Sure. What that near future looks like? So there are two things. So right now in the near future, when people say, alright.

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What should I do both as a talented person or as a leader or as the head of HR or someone who wants to launch a company?

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The answers are for all four of those.

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Every one of those has to think about

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doing four things differently

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right away. So my stuff is just don't wait. You have to do it right away.

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So the first one

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is

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stop thinking about a new type of employee if you're in a company.

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Put into force

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not just a

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right now, most companies have three types of employees, full time,

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freelance,

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and a contract employee. So contract employee is an employee of another company that you actually take home. I believe it's gonna be time for a fractionalized employee. So fractionalized employee

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is someone who works 60 or 80% of their time,

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get 60 or 80% of their full benefits, which also basically includes

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equity

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bonuses,

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but a % of health care. And this allows companies to basically,

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a, leverage up and down their talent in an AI age without laying off people,

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recognize that people have additional things they'd like to do besides work all the time,

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or they may need to because of

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children, aging parents, or other things.

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So we have a system that

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refuses to acknowledge

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that

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today your choice is you are an employee of a company or you're not. Why?

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Okay. We talk about agility and flexibility.

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Why?

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Second

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is

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what do we all need to do in a world where knowledge is free

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and

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human intelligence

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is

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quite useless.

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So in

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a AI age, what do you do? Oh, so you don't say HI plus AI. I said, listen. AI is better than HI. You don't need AI plus HI. Okay? Don't be ridiculous. That's, like, a silly thing. You do need an HI, but that HI is things like human ingenuity, human inventiveness, human interaction,

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human integrity, those kinds of things.

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Because very much to the theme of your podcast,

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I believe the big differentiating advantage we trust.

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Okay?

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Third

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is

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to rethink the office.

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So my basic belief is I am a big believer in in person interaction for some of the office,

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and why should it happen three days a week?

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Why can't you basically pull everybody together for two weeks, a quarter in an exotic location?

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It's more cost effective. It's cheaper. It's more impactful.

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Why are you doing it this way?

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Right?

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And finally,

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one of the reasons you're doing it this way is because many people are bosses and managers and no longer leaders.

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So I talk about how do you become a leader versus just be a manager.

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So learn to lead versus manage, rethink the office, think about AI

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and human interaction,

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and come up with a new type of employee

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or try to be a new type of employee. So those four are what companies, individuals,

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talent,

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people should do now.

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And then the last five chapters

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are particularly interesting because they basically say,

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how would you now rethink everything if all what I've just said is true?

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So what I've said is the world we have is right here. Right?

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Okay. Do these right away just to survive.

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But now to thrive, what do you need to do? So now which you need to buy a little bit of time to, like, rethink everything. Right? So in there, I begin by saying, have you thought about that every firm's strategy should change?

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Because if firms really

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are about providing

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products and services,

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but the

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vehicle of production is the worker

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or the work?

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And if that is fundamentally changed, could it be that the strategy of the firm changes?

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And I believe, as, Rishad, as you noted, 70 to 80% of at least US firms are now service firms? Service firms. Yeah. So big, big deal.

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Second

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is how do you restructure the entire organization

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where increasingly most of the people who get the work done aren't gonna be full time employees.

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They're gonna be just in time employees, fractionalized employees,

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contract workers, etcetera.

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So that model is very much like a model of the movie studio business,

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where

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very few people are in the movie studio, people work on the projects, and they're all fractionalized people who come in and work on the project.

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They do most of them get insurance through their union.

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K? So they have a % union, but they get paid for when they work. And when they work, they get you know? So it's it's sort of a very strange

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fractionalized employee in that space. And then it is how do you retrain the entire workforce? Because when when you're gonna go from being doing this to that, it's not gonna be some immaculate conception that you suddenly get born into this new role. You have to learn. Okay? So when a company says, I have a new strategy, I said, okay. Show me your new training program,

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and show me what your incentive program looks like. If you don't have an incentive program that aligns people with a new strategy and you don't have a training program, you don't have a new strategy. You basically have a website and a deck. That's all you got. A wish and a prayer. Right.

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And and then, you know, towards the very end of the book, I also measure talk about finance,

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which is you have to measure things differently.

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As we went from the analog to the digital age, a lot of our measurements changed.

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And in this particular age, if your cost structure is primarily outside,

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most of your stuff is about cloud compute.

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Right?

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It's about plug and play and a whole bunch of other things. The economics will be different, both cost economics,

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productivity economics.

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And the final chapter basically anticipates what the future of work ecosystem will look like.

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And in there, I basically say that they'll be most companies will have far fewer employees than they have today, and the ecosystem will be a bunch of whales,

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like

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a NVIDIA Taiwan semiconductor,

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a Google,

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you know, Eli

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Lilly, bunch of whales, Walmart,

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and lots and lots of plankton, which are much more smaller companies.

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And the occasional whale and, shark and squid somewhere around. Okay? But it'll basically be this this ecosystem.

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And

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and as a result,

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most people

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will be working for far smaller companies, which could be a company of one, in a far more liquid marketplace.

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And what some of those are and how would you have to think about and lead in that.

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So people have read the book, and the book has done very well. It's out about three months. It's selling very well. And feedback that I've got is a lot of people, after they read the book,

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recommended and sometimes buy a lot for their firms.

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Okay?

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Their leadership of their firm, I just spoke to a firm where two of their top people,

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not the very top, but very like, the head of data and the head of AI, which are two different people, read my book, talked to their boss who runs all of data and AI in this huge company.

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And then yesterday, I talked to the 50

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employees, all of whom had been the 50 leaders, not employees. It's a huge company. Massive. All of all of whom had been asked to read the book.

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Right? And I did a sort of a q and a,

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sort of on the book. Does that make sense? Fantastic. So more and more, that's basically happening. And I and the other thing that's become really weird

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is I've been now doing stuff with schools

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because

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colleges and schools have said we are preparing people for the future of work, but not for this future. Absolutely not. And my old and they're saying we better tell people this should be this books. I've gone to universities,

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and and people are sort of doing I'm doing actually a thing on the future of work with Northwestern here.

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No. It's I would I mean, I would tell you tell me. It's existential

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for higher education. It's existential.

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It's it's so for higher education, for existing companies,

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and and so what tends to basically happen is that it ties in very well with my like, you know, my previous book was about restoring the soul of business, taking human in the age of data. But I also

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have a certain degree of credibility

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based on my

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working career. So like I say,

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I've always had a career.

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The first thirty seven years, I had a job.

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The last six years, I haven't had a job. I'm still working. I still have a career.

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Right? But the difference is, don't say I've retired.

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I'm not retired. I don't have a job. I'm working. I'm traveling.

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Right? And in a strange way, I'm actually making even more money than I had when I had the highest job. Okay? Fantastic. You're you're you're living you're living the outcome that you're writing about. Right. And so my stuff is it can be perfectly done, and I was doing it also inside the company. And I don't believe, like, it's about exceptions that you don't want us unique or rare or

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My old basic belief is

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you can get where you wanna get. It takes a little bit of time. You can't suddenly decide you wanna do it. But the reality is I'm now lining this Bunsen burner under people's butts,

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saying take charge of your own career. Don't listen to Carrie Underwood who says Jesus, take the wheel. You take it.

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Okay? Be being here in Nashville, I will,

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I will take a yeah. Right. You right. So you take the wheel, okay, of your career. Absolutely.

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Which basically means plot at how you position yourself for this new world.

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Absolutely brilliant. And trust runs through it because, obviously,

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you know, modern companies will run-in

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part increasingly on, like, there'll be parts of it on blockchain.

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Mhmm. But trust will become the currency and an AIA.

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Well, and in fact, that takes me perfectly,

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Rishad, to my next question. So in in restoring the soul of business Right. I'd love this. You call trust the currency of the future. I think you may have just noted that. And and you warn that, quote, data without a soul is like a body without a heart. Yes. And so,

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now,

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in what I continually will refer to as the hyper accelerating technologies of AI,

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how can businesses embrace AI and the

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seemingly endless data required to harness it,

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while keeping a human touch? So the three

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beliefs I have,

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which I am sharing with firms,

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is the first

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is AI

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will not be a differentiator

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for any firms or most firms. It might be a differentiator for Google or something like that, but it's unlikely to be differentiated for almost every other firm outside of the company. That is that in the sense that it will become table stakes? Is it Yeah. So I'm sorry. Is there already baseline requirement? In about a couple of years, it's gonna become table stakes because it's gonna basically be let's suppose you're running a company, Sean, and I'm running a company,

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and you pitch a client and I pitch a client.

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And the reason you claim that you are better than me is because you use electricity.

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Right. Right.

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Okay. So your client will ask you. Last I saw, Rashad was not sitting in the darkness by candlelight.

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I think his company uses electricity

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too. So when people go in and say, you know, here's how we're gonna differentiate with AI. Tell me who isn't going to use AI. Mhmm. Like, who? Which company isn't gonna use it? And by the way, this AI that they use all come from the same separate companies. So don't tell me that you got a difference. Like, your electricity isn't better than my electricity. Right. Okay. Now what you build on top of that electricity

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is where the differences are. The web, mobile, all these other waves. So, therefore, my whole thing is, a, embrace AI, adapt your company to AI,

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and then find complementary things that you build on top that differentiate you. Right? But in addition to embracing and adapting and complementing,

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don't just focus on efficiency and effectiveness.

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Think about the existential risk and opportunities to reimagine your entire business.

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So my firm is, first of all, AI is not gonna be a differentiator.

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Second is

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embrace it,

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adapt the workflows,

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and complement

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both as individuals

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and companies.

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But when we're looking at outcomes, just don't think about how AI will make your

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current business more effective and efficient.

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Think about how you could reimagine your entire business.

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Just like digital

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did not save the New York Times

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because it made the trucks run faster and the printing presses run faster.

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The New York Times reinvented its business to not be a paper based business, a page one driven based business, and even based a news based business. They reimagined their business completely.

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So most of the companies are basically not reimagining their business. They're writing an AI strategy

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versus rethinking their entire strategy for an AI agent.

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And and if we drill in a bit on that,

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you

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you coined I believe you coined the term DigiLog.

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The the,

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Yeah. A mashup of digital and analog data and intuition. Yeah. And and basically, what I basically said is there is a thing called digital leakage where everything comes together.

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Okay?

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And and and we're in this particular world that it's happening. But now

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now in many ways, like, as Harabolo started a digital agency thirty years ago,

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it's almost like digital is now

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sounds like a typewriter.

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Absolutely. It's anachronism at this point. Right?

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Yeah.

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Well, and and so and I you also call out the which I particularly liked,

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that that if I understood, DigiLog was DigiLog is

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a guide, a cautionary tale in some ways to help others avoid what you call data blinded outcomes like robotic customer service. And so for companies who are going to, as you say, absolutely have to increasingly embrace

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AI

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in, let's say, customer service or customer engagement. What are you advising them

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to do to ensure that it strengthens rather than erodes trust, which I think is is a fear that that many have?

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I think that two or three things one has to do. One is a,

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Jess gotta make absolutely sure that any interaction that your company

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does

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with

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a customer or a member or any people,

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a, definitely, will have to leverage and utilize state of the art AI, not just because of

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cost savings,

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but because it's the best way to get them the answers that they need.

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Right?

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But what they need to be able to do

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is the way they serve up the answer, the experiences, and the interface.

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So in many ways, the interface of the conversation will become the brand. User experience is everything. Right. So user experience and a sort of an experience stack is one. Second

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is when they want,

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you include a human in the loop very quickly.

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Okay?

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But you don't have to have a human in the loop unless they ask for human in the loop. Because in many cases, I don't want any human in the loop. You know, so there are a lot of places where you don't want a human. But often when you want a human, they make it impossible to find it.

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Right? So if you go to a website looking for a number to call, you have to hunt and peck like a mad person. Mhmm. Okay?

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And my old stuff is you gotta make it very easy for a human to be in the loop fast,

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but also recognize that interface, experience, design.

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But underlying it all

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will come back to what I believe is very, very important, and obviously, you've named your entire podcast about it,

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is trust.

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I truly believe that trust and integrity,

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okay, are very, very important. And you might say, aren't they the same thing? They're

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somewhat similar but different. So let me tell you what that is. Trust

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is what somebody

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earns, but usually trust

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is what I need to feel about you as a brand.

363
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Okay?

364
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But the way you end up being a trustworthy

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brand

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is making sure that you're operating across every

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area with integrity. And and integrity to me, the best definition of integrity,

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is

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when you

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what you say, what you believe,

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and what you do,

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all are completely aligned. K? So what you say, what you do, and what you believe.

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And if you don't do that, you are not don't have integrity and nobody will trust you. And one of the key things

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is a big part of integrity,

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which is a a new thing I've added to what you say, what you believe, and what you do.

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00:25:15,235 --> 00:25:21,735
And it's unfortunate I've had to add this, but this has been my big insight over the last few months or years.

377
00:25:22,914 --> 00:25:24,934
Is Is it true? Okay.

378
00:25:25,235 --> 00:25:29,495
So my basic belief is the following. You could behave, say,

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and believe

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that vaccines

381
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are not good. But it's not true. Okay? So there is no integrity.

382
00:25:38,220 --> 00:25:49,195
Because, yes, you are in in you're consistent, but you are not consistent with the world of science. And my basic belief is, if you are anti science, I want you to defecate in the outdoors, not use flushes.

383
00:25:50,294 --> 00:25:53,355
Okay? Don't use cars. Don't use electricity.

384
00:25:53,735 --> 00:25:56,315
Science, you either accept or do not accept.

385
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:08,420
Science is not like I want it and I feel like it and I don't feel like it. And science doesn't care, by the way, about you. You can tweet that you don't believe in gravity. I can jump out of my window here and die. So get over it. Okay?

386
00:26:08,745 --> 00:26:18,525
And part of what I believe and what I truly believe in trust, leaders are losing their trust in America because they're not saying truthful things. Oh, indeed. They're not behaving with integrity.

387
00:26:18,905 --> 00:26:21,325
Okay? So I'll give you a statistic,

388
00:26:21,785 --> 00:26:24,205
and this gives you an idea of trust,

389
00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:28,580
tax, and the world we live in. Less than two weeks ago, I was speaking to 40

390
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:33,220
c level executives from a variety of banks, big banks, small banks,

391
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:34,740
you know,

392
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:36,820
sort of regional banks.

393
00:26:37,575 --> 00:26:43,755
And there were two of us, and I was basically talking about my topic was really about broadly about change management,

394
00:26:44,135 --> 00:26:45,914
how to have influence when you

395
00:26:46,215 --> 00:26:49,115
aren't the key thing. Like, in banks, you know, there's different people.

396
00:26:49,900 --> 00:26:52,320
And another gentleman was basically

397
00:26:52,620 --> 00:26:56,000
from a company I won't name, but very, very well regarded company,

398
00:26:56,540 --> 00:26:57,760
was basically sharing

399
00:26:58,220 --> 00:27:02,480
data. He works with banks, sharing data. He's the executive vice president.

400
00:27:03,020 --> 00:27:07,455
And he had shared his presentation with me, and I'd said what I was doing because we were

401
00:27:07,855 --> 00:27:15,715
each presenting and then we're gonna be on a panel. So we wanted to make sure that it looked like one piece. Right. Right? What we were doing, and we complimented each other.

402
00:27:16,210 --> 00:27:17,030
And we

403
00:27:17,330 --> 00:27:26,710
did. But his presentation, which he shared with me over the web, but then in person when it was the same presentation, he put he said a thing, a line before he started.

404
00:27:27,730 --> 00:27:29,430
And the line he said was,

405
00:27:30,184 --> 00:27:33,485
I'm about to show you some data. This is not a political statement.

406
00:27:34,585 --> 00:27:50,960
So I asked him later why did he do that. He said his company made him do that because what he would because they just wanted it's just very much like you you know, you put up some earnings reports and say these are forward looking statements. Mhmm. K. So what were the three facts that he actually He said. He said a lot of things, but the three big facts

407
00:27:51,340 --> 00:27:52,560
themes were

408
00:27:53,420 --> 00:27:57,440
before the end of this decade, women will control 40% of America's wealth.

409
00:27:58,745 --> 00:28:06,585
And in many categories like automobile, they themselves are responsible for more than half the purchases. Automobile sales. New automobile sales, 51%

410
00:28:06,585 --> 00:28:07,725
women. Again,

411
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the second largest

412
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no. The

413
00:28:10,985 --> 00:28:21,770
the fifth largest country in the world and the economy in the world is frauds. Equal to that is the Hispanic population of The United States. Seventy Eight Percent of those were born in The United States. Three.

414
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Baby boomers are the biggest,

415
00:28:25,675 --> 00:28:27,375
not baby Gen z is the biggest

416
00:28:28,235 --> 00:28:31,135
group of people now in the workforce starting this year

417
00:28:31,915 --> 00:28:34,655
as baby boomers age out. 49%

418
00:28:34,955 --> 00:28:35,455
of

419
00:28:35,995 --> 00:28:42,140
Gen z identify themselves as non Caucasian. Okay? So what he's basically said, the future is women,

420
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,140
Hispanic, and non Caucasian

421
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,860
to a large number of bankers who are older.

422
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:50,380
I do know that demographic.

423
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:51,500
Right?

424
00:28:52,575 --> 00:28:54,035
And my basic belief,

425
00:28:54,815 --> 00:28:57,235
my statement was, do you understand

426
00:28:58,975 --> 00:29:06,059
how regardless of what you you're not believing with each other, how you're losing an entire generation

427
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:12,860
who are basically looking at you as your strip companies out of debt diversity, equity, and inclusion.

428
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,980
Right? Keep talking about macho

429
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:17,020
and hardcore.

430
00:29:18,605 --> 00:29:23,024
Right? Who thinks anybody who's brown should be sent off to, you know, whatever,

431
00:29:23,404 --> 00:29:24,225
El Salvador?

432
00:29:25,245 --> 00:29:27,745
Do you understand how you're destroying your companies?

433
00:29:28,605 --> 00:29:41,440
You are not leaders. You are people with marshmallow minds and jujubes minds. That's what trust is. That's what truth is. That's what integrity is. And that way, it's in addition to being obviously a technological thing with blockchain and an organizational

434
00:29:41,740 --> 00:29:44,160
thing with the future of work, it's also about individuals.

435
00:29:45,565 --> 00:29:49,105
Right? And I can tell you, if you have trust and you have integrity,

436
00:29:50,365 --> 00:29:54,145
you can take over the work. Absolutely. And I think I think, you know and I could I'm

437
00:29:54,525 --> 00:29:59,585
I'm imagining a fractal conversation where I would love to spend hours, and I could, genuinely,

438
00:30:00,285 --> 00:30:00,785
exploring

439
00:30:01,540 --> 00:30:04,760
how do we land on truth? How do we land on,

440
00:30:05,220 --> 00:30:06,680
you know, I'm I'm recalling

441
00:30:07,940 --> 00:30:08,680
a study.

442
00:30:09,060 --> 00:30:09,880
I would be

443
00:30:10,500 --> 00:30:17,755
hard pressed to to name the the source at this point, but where they discussed Gen Z taking the approach of quote, magpying

444
00:30:18,215 --> 00:30:18,875
the truth,

445
00:30:19,255 --> 00:30:21,195
which is to echo, you know,

446
00:30:21,815 --> 00:30:24,155
to make a call in response to their peers

447
00:30:24,934 --> 00:30:25,674
to effectively

448
00:30:26,054 --> 00:30:31,910
land on the truth. And there's so many fascinating questions. But I'll go here, Rishad. You also have described

449
00:30:32,450 --> 00:30:37,030
trust as a good housekeeping seal for brands in a tech heavy world.

450
00:30:37,970 --> 00:30:39,670
If we talk about decentralization

451
00:30:40,210 --> 00:30:44,470
with regard to technology, peer to peer platforms, it could be bitcoin, it could be whatever.

452
00:30:45,305 --> 00:30:46,684
How do you see

453
00:30:47,705 --> 00:30:48,925
this shifting

454
00:30:49,465 --> 00:30:53,005
the power balance with businesses? And by that, I mean,

455
00:30:53,625 --> 00:30:58,045
do you see that it returns some of the power to the individual, to the consumer?

456
00:30:58,740 --> 00:31:05,560
Or or really with the case of AI, is it just that it will it will sort of re centralize back to the biggest firms, the biggest brands?

457
00:31:06,340 --> 00:31:10,280
So I'm gonna provide you a perspective. And in this particular perspective,

458
00:31:11,060 --> 00:31:13,400
unlike the rest of my book, which is substantiated

459
00:31:13,860 --> 00:31:14,360
with

460
00:31:15,055 --> 00:31:15,555
data.

461
00:31:16,735 --> 00:31:29,480
This one has less doesn't that isn't necessarily doesn't have data to support it, but it doesn't have that enough of the data to support it. So this is a little bit more built on my lessons from history

462
00:31:30,820 --> 00:31:35,799
than actual facts. But the facts are this is what's happened in the past. Right?

463
00:31:36,820 --> 00:31:39,240
So I believe that every advance in technology

464
00:31:40,664 --> 00:31:46,125
places a premium on talent, that every time technology has increased. And one of the reasons why today,

465
00:31:46,505 --> 00:31:50,205
all over the world, not just The United States, United States may be a little bit more extreme,

466
00:31:50,505 --> 00:31:52,684
there is certain inequality of outcomes

467
00:31:52,985 --> 00:31:54,365
is primarily because

468
00:31:54,904 --> 00:31:55,404
if

469
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,940
you and I were playing or

470
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:04,980
I and Serena Williams was playing tennis, and both of us were using the old Bilson rackets from the nineteen seventies,

471
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,340
she would still beat me. And if I basically use the modern racket,

472
00:32:11,595 --> 00:32:14,015
she would still beat me, but with a little less

473
00:32:14,395 --> 00:32:14,895
deal.

474
00:32:15,595 --> 00:32:21,775
But if both of us were now using the modern racket, she would beat me much more than when we were both using the old racket.

475
00:32:23,029 --> 00:32:27,690
Because I believe technology is the leverage that allows David to bring down Goliath. Mhmm.

476
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:30,169
And if you believe that talent is David

477
00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:33,130
and capital and companies are Goliath,

478
00:32:33,830 --> 00:32:36,809
my basic belief is this is the Goliath's last straw.

479
00:32:37,304 --> 00:32:39,485
So right now, here's what's basically happening.

480
00:32:40,024 --> 00:32:49,565
There is currently and the new and the Wall Street Journal had this article, and I was about to put it on LinkedIn with some screen against it, but decided against it. Okay?

481
00:32:50,780 --> 00:32:53,840
Where they talked about everyone saying, okay, to the talent,

482
00:32:54,940 --> 00:32:57,840
the economy is softer. I can replace you with AI.

483
00:32:58,700 --> 00:33:03,919
Stop being a crybaby. Come back five days a week. Do this. Otherwise, you're completely replaceable.

484
00:33:04,539 --> 00:33:10,605
K? So So first of all, that's not the way to treat anybody because in effect, they'll remember when again the success circumstances

485
00:33:10,905 --> 00:33:11,405
changes.

486
00:33:12,185 --> 00:33:18,690
But the truth of the matter is what you're just reminding people is why they should not trust you, not believe in you, not follow you. That's all you're

487
00:33:19,070 --> 00:33:27,170
doing. And this is basically not one built on forward looking anything. It's built basically on the last cry of the dinosaurs before they die.

488
00:33:27,550 --> 00:33:33,490
Okay? So all this thing about macho and, you know, hardcore and all this bullshit

489
00:33:34,215 --> 00:33:47,835
is a total lack of imagination as to where the world is going. Because in effect, I believe technology gives us all godlike power. And, yes, you can talk about surveillance state and this state and that state, but what has tended to basically happen is, yes,

490
00:33:48,179 --> 00:33:55,240
Has Meta and Google and Amazon made a lot of money? Yes. But has it also enabled many creators, developers,

491
00:33:55,620 --> 00:33:56,120
businesses?

492
00:33:56,820 --> 00:33:57,320
Yes.

493
00:33:57,779 --> 00:33:59,559
Right? So there's never a, like,

494
00:34:00,195 --> 00:34:05,495
it's all clean. But what I would basically say is, would you rather live in today's ecosystem

495
00:34:06,914 --> 00:34:09,015
than one before smartphones,

496
00:34:09,315 --> 00:34:13,015
before Amazon, before Google, before Mara, before

497
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,020
breakthroughs in GLP one drugs, before.

498
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,300
My whole stuff is like, what are you talking about? Right?

499
00:34:19,839 --> 00:34:31,174
But keep going backwards. You might as well live in the Greek times. They were fantastic. People would have great conversations, but they also happen to be slaves. There was no indoor plumbing. You know, people forget all of that. They just take one thing,

500
00:34:31,714 --> 00:34:41,414
and then they expect everything else to be static, which it which it isn't. So one of my basic beliefs is that in this new world, power is moving to talent versus capital.

501
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:49,019
And primarily because of this, you can today start, and there are companies I would anticipate by the end of next year

502
00:34:49,319 --> 00:34:54,460
that will have a billion dollars of revenue with less than a hundred people because of AI, because of marketplaces,

503
00:34:54,839 --> 00:34:59,935
because of all kinds of stuff. Right? You You can have a hundred employees. I can touch another thousand.

504
00:35:00,315 --> 00:35:10,655
But I can only have a hundred employees in my company. I can use modern AI, modern systems, plug and play, and I can build a billion dollar revenue, not even billion no. Forget about billion dollar market cap. Billion dollar revenue

505
00:35:11,195 --> 00:35:11,695
company.

506
00:35:12,309 --> 00:35:20,410
Now in that particular world, explain to me why talent doesn't matter. Right? In a world where, basically, I have a full time job I don't like, but I can simultaneously

507
00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:22,730
do all kinds of other stuff in the evenings,

508
00:35:23,109 --> 00:35:23,609
afternoons,

509
00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:25,210
or when nobody's watching,

510
00:35:25,795 --> 00:35:30,695
on Etsy, Shopify, Fiverr, whatever I wanna basically do. Tell me how that is about talent.

511
00:35:31,075 --> 00:35:39,335
The reality of it is many of the leaders of the world, including America, are spending too much time in their private jets doing incestuous thinking with each other.

512
00:35:40,310 --> 00:35:43,210
I recently talked to 40 CEOs and I said, you know something?

513
00:35:43,830 --> 00:35:45,450
Let me tell you that in the future,

514
00:35:45,830 --> 00:35:48,090
the only way to win is to think like an immigrant.

515
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:50,010
Okay?

516
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:56,615
And I said, here's what immigrants do. We are, a, all immigrating into the future. So we're all immigrants. So you are immigrants too.

517
00:35:57,155 --> 00:36:00,055
Immigrants think like outsiders. You all think like insiders.

518
00:36:00,995 --> 00:36:03,735
Immigrants think like underdogs. You think like overdogs.

519
00:36:04,675 --> 00:36:08,055
Immigrants think with a future focus. You're looking at the quarterly results.

520
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:15,619
I'll beat you anytime. Just give me a little bit of time. Right? You talk to them like this and you realize that they are very scared of themselves.

521
00:36:16,319 --> 00:36:21,220
Certainly. Every senior leader is questioning about irrelevancy. All this hocus pocus bullshit

522
00:36:21,839 --> 00:36:23,539
hides underlying insecurity.

523
00:36:24,465 --> 00:36:29,285
That is because they are too they talk about change, but they themselves don't change.

524
00:36:30,625 --> 00:36:36,005
Right? And and there's where trust comes in. In this particular world, I think a combination of

525
00:36:36,705 --> 00:36:37,685
these wide networks,

526
00:36:38,559 --> 00:36:39,059
like,

527
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:44,740
in addition to my book, I write a substack where I reach more CMOs and CEOs than AdEdge or Adweek too.

528
00:36:45,440 --> 00:37:09,990
Right? Sitting by by myself at home. It's all free. Fantastic. I think you're at about 30,000 subscribers. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. But but it was 30,000, but it's got, like, hundreds of CEOs, CMOs, etcetera. Right? Who read me every Sunday. I'm not sure they read all of Adweek or anything like that. Right? Excepting when they're mentioned to it. So what what tends to basically happen is one of the key things and and I'm talking about real things, not like which account went from one place to the other, which is trivial.

529
00:37:10,290 --> 00:37:14,470
Okay. So so one of the key things that basically makes a big difference

530
00:37:14,770 --> 00:37:17,670
is every tool today gives me power.

531
00:37:17,970 --> 00:37:24,565
Yes. Does it also provide because of data, like a surveillance state and everything else? But I don't really believe that

532
00:37:25,345 --> 00:37:32,724
that the that the future is going to be about capital over talent. I think it's gonna be talent plus capital over capital.

533
00:37:33,585 --> 00:37:38,880
But it'll be very easy to relatively get capital because you require much less capital AI age.

534
00:37:39,420 --> 00:37:44,160
And there are some industries where you will require a lot of capital. That's why it's just so there'll be these whales.

535
00:37:44,460 --> 00:37:46,800
You're gonna require big capital for pharmaceuticals,

536
00:37:47,180 --> 00:37:51,040
chip design, you know, things like that. But most other businesses, you don't.

537
00:37:51,474 --> 00:37:51,974
Right.

538
00:37:52,275 --> 00:38:00,135
And What what about, Rashad? And and, I mean, that that all that's I think it's extremely important with regard to talent, and it's empowering. I mean, as I mentioned, I'm here in Nashville

539
00:38:00,675 --> 00:38:02,855
mostly among the creative class, so called.

540
00:38:03,234 --> 00:38:05,095
And and, you know,

541
00:38:07,020 --> 00:38:08,160
innumerable conversations

542
00:38:08,700 --> 00:38:10,080
about what might it mean

543
00:38:10,380 --> 00:38:24,365
to own one's own copyright, to own one's own publishing, to have a chance to do better than the Spotifys of the world. On the consumer side, and you've laid out I think very clearly that there will be an accretion of

544
00:38:26,265 --> 00:38:26,765
capital,

545
00:38:27,545 --> 00:38:33,704
of technology, of power essentially to the largest firms. What about the consumer? What about the individual? What is your take on

546
00:38:34,590 --> 00:38:39,490
you know, as I as I led in this question with the ability for the average individual

547
00:38:40,750 --> 00:38:41,250
to

548
00:38:42,190 --> 00:38:42,690
realize

549
00:38:43,310 --> 00:38:45,970
a bit more control, a bit more power?

550
00:38:46,510 --> 00:38:51,815
So this assumes my question, I'm sorry, I'll just quickly say my question is baked with the assertion or the assumption

551
00:38:52,675 --> 00:38:54,775
that there is a tremendous power imbalance.

552
00:38:55,155 --> 00:39:00,935
Right? That I'm at the will of these large corporations and and can I reclaim some of that power,

553
00:39:01,715 --> 00:39:03,895
rather than be forced to trust them effectively?

554
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,660
I I believe so. So I think what's basically happening is these things go

555
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,820
so I always say the future never comes from the heavens, it comes from the slime.

556
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:19,460
Right? So I began to see the impact. For instance, someone reminded me that 15 ago,

557
00:39:19,805 --> 00:39:20,705
I said that

558
00:39:21,165 --> 00:39:24,225
Internet technology would break the spine of media companies.

559
00:39:25,165 --> 00:39:29,585
Lo and behold. And that's right. But it began with first with newspapers,

560
00:39:30,525 --> 00:39:35,025
then it moved up to magazines, then it moved up to radio, and now it's moved up to television.

561
00:39:36,450 --> 00:39:37,430
Does it make sense?

562
00:39:38,370 --> 00:39:39,430
Similarly, the empowerment

563
00:39:39,730 --> 00:39:42,550
that's starting to take place is happening on certain fridges.

564
00:39:43,250 --> 00:39:45,590
So, yes, it's an Andreessen Horowitz company,

565
00:39:46,050 --> 00:39:46,550
but

566
00:39:47,865 --> 00:39:48,845
I use Substack.

567
00:39:49,145 --> 00:39:52,045
And Substack gives me the following three pieces of control.

568
00:39:52,905 --> 00:39:55,805
I own my mailing list. I own my subscribers.

569
00:39:56,425 --> 00:39:57,165
They don't.

570
00:39:58,105 --> 00:40:04,230
I own and can port over my content, and some people have to ghost and beehive and other kinds of things.

571
00:40:04,610 --> 00:40:05,110
Right?

572
00:40:06,290 --> 00:40:12,070
And if I just and it's free. Those two parts are free. Mhmm. And if I decide to charge, which is I make revenue,

573
00:40:12,770 --> 00:40:19,110
they basically get 10% available. About 3% goes to Stripe, and that would go anywhere to Stripe. So it's basically they get 10%.

574
00:40:19,745 --> 00:40:21,685
Those are better metrics than

575
00:40:21,985 --> 00:40:26,565
thirty, seventy, or even higher, like, with the Apple Store. Mhmm. Right?

576
00:40:27,345 --> 00:40:32,885
So first of all, it's already beginning to say, hey. There's that. The other is now I own all my content,

577
00:40:33,380 --> 00:40:34,600
which is very, very important.

578
00:40:35,220 --> 00:40:43,320
But as importantly, and this is the very interesting thing, it is generating a massive loss of talent from the big companies to the small companies.

579
00:40:43,860 --> 00:41:05,250
So more and more people are leaving the magazines, newspapers, radio. Right? Who is some of the talent that still exists there in doing this? Because you can make much more money, you have much more control, you have much more agency. And one of the things I often remind people is you can probably do both unless your company gets completely weirded out, and some people in the New York Times have. Okay? The New York Times has enough

580
00:41:05,630 --> 00:41:08,690
gravitas that can still attract and retain world class people,

581
00:41:08,990 --> 00:41:12,369
but the Washington Post can't. The LA Times can't. CNN

582
00:41:12,670 --> 00:41:13,809
can't. Okay?

583
00:41:14,430 --> 00:41:24,325
And so to a great extent, what you're basically seeing is control and power is moving to the individual, but it's starting to happen from the smaller things. Just like in that, it starts with writing.

584
00:41:24,704 --> 00:41:33,860
But now Substack has add video. Absolutely. Does that make sense? The other one and I was a big believer, and I continue to be a big believer. And you noticed at the end of my first book, I mentioned it.

585
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:40,580
And in my second book, you know, where I talk about technology, I don't just talk about AI. I'm a big believer in blockchain.

586
00:41:41,175 --> 00:41:41,675
Okay?

587
00:41:42,135 --> 00:41:48,155
And I remind people I'm a big believer in blockchain because in effect, it is a underlying technology that allows

588
00:41:49,895 --> 00:41:50,955
me to basically

589
00:41:52,055 --> 00:41:54,795
own my identity and get paid for my data.

590
00:41:56,055 --> 00:41:59,490
Okay? And it gives me a whole bunch of stuff. And as it becomes

591
00:42:00,270 --> 00:42:00,589
easier

592
00:42:01,309 --> 00:42:09,914
and, you know, it goes to this wild thing where nobody cares and okay. It's bullshit. It's not. And, obviously, I'm not talking about meme coins and things like that. I'm talking about

593
00:42:10,214 --> 00:42:18,075
the underlying I hope not Rashad. Yeah. Right. Underlying, you know, the underlying technology. But if you if you have all of that, then you can actually do something.

594
00:42:18,775 --> 00:42:21,355
And I think I mean, and I, you know, I I almost,

595
00:42:22,310 --> 00:42:26,010
feel the obligation to insert a disclaimer for those who are in my circle,

596
00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:29,450
who know that, you know, I'm a laser eyed Bitcoin maxi.

597
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:35,690
And so, you know, we we might we might take issue with sort of blockchain as a very expensive database.

598
00:42:36,085 --> 00:42:40,965
But but I would I would, you know, perhaps read your your your remark. Don't let me put words in your mouth.

599
00:42:41,285 --> 00:42:42,985
More broadly to say,

600
00:42:43,445 --> 00:42:46,105
the ability to tokenize, the ability to,

601
00:42:46,725 --> 00:42:57,359
to have And and it's coming around. I mean, when you think about it, right, from ten years ago, seven years ago, six years ago. The fact today that there's gonna basically be a stablecoin,

602
00:42:57,900 --> 00:43:00,480
which is gonna have US, you know, sort of endorsement.

603
00:43:00,940 --> 00:43:03,680
And and and I'll tell you something. If you look at a stablecoin

604
00:43:04,855 --> 00:43:11,915
and if you just look at the fact let's say, okay. Forget about everything. As I remind people, look, the reality of it is for many parts of the world,

605
00:43:12,615 --> 00:43:14,075
the ability to basically

606
00:43:14,455 --> 00:43:19,675
move money without paying Western Union Mhmm. The ability to basically move your dollars

607
00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:20,600
quickly.

608
00:43:21,460 --> 00:43:24,920
Right? Or or your piece peso pesos into dollars,

609
00:43:25,220 --> 00:43:26,600
which are a little bit stable,

610
00:43:27,060 --> 00:43:33,400
used to be. Mhmm. Okay. While you do do other things, makes a thing. And the reality of it is that some of the biggest users

611
00:43:33,825 --> 00:43:36,724
of stable coins, etcetera, are companies like Starlink.

612
00:43:37,345 --> 00:43:49,560
Like, we look at all the big companies that are basically using it. Okay? So to a great extent, you can it's it's an underlying basis business, but everything that it does, it reduces the cost, it tokenized, that gives me more power.

613
00:43:50,600 --> 00:44:03,020
Certainly. Certainly. Okay. And and and that is a huge, huge deal. And it's gonna put major pressure on Mastercard and Visa. It's gonna put major pressure on all these companies because all these companies have basically been built,

614
00:44:03,725 --> 00:44:04,225
right,

615
00:44:04,525 --> 00:44:05,025
on

616
00:44:05,565 --> 00:44:06,065
three

617
00:44:06,845 --> 00:44:07,345
arbitrages.

618
00:44:08,845 --> 00:44:10,385
The arbitrage of data,

619
00:44:10,765 --> 00:44:13,905
the arbitrage of information, and the arbitrage of size.

620
00:44:14,765 --> 00:44:15,265
Certainly.

621
00:44:15,730 --> 00:44:24,950
Alright. And all those arbitrages, while important, are going to be continued to be hit and hurt. And the big difference and this is a key thing that I would remind everybody.

622
00:44:25,490 --> 00:44:41,335
So yesterday, I spoke to a very large financial firm, very huge. 50 of their top people. Not their top people, 50 of their top people in their data and AI group. And one of the things that they asked, and they all had to read and I just they're all reading my book. And so a question was,

623
00:44:41,715 --> 00:44:54,980
since you wrote the book, it's been a year since you touched it. The book only came out three months ago, but the way you know, if you publish with a big house, it's don't touch it for a long time. So it's the last time I edited the book was ten months ago.

624
00:44:55,359 --> 00:44:55,859
K.

625
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:57,619
So it's ten months.

626
00:44:58,155 --> 00:45:00,735
What have you got wrong? What have you got right? So I said,

627
00:45:01,275 --> 00:45:07,535
I haven't got anything wrong, and I haven't got any I've got most of it is right. I haven't got anything wrong yet. The only thing I've got wrong

628
00:45:08,075 --> 00:45:11,295
is how right I was, and it's happening faster.

629
00:45:12,210 --> 00:45:14,790
Right? So I said, the thing that I got

630
00:45:15,490 --> 00:45:18,070
right, but not the speed is much faster,

631
00:45:18,609 --> 00:45:21,750
is how fast AI is moving and disrupting companies.

632
00:45:22,930 --> 00:45:24,630
Right? How fast,

633
00:45:25,645 --> 00:45:28,625
you know, Blockchain and others are starting to be accepted

634
00:45:29,005 --> 00:45:32,045
is faster than I thought. A lot of my stuff is 2029.

635
00:45:32,045 --> 00:45:33,965
Now I've moved that up to 2027.

636
00:45:33,965 --> 00:45:40,305
Okay. So that's one. So that's the first thing is and the other one, which I did not get wrong, but I think we've messed it up,

637
00:45:40,740 --> 00:45:47,960
is the way companies are reacting to diversity, equity, and inclusion is stupid given all the statistics I've shared in the book.

638
00:45:48,500 --> 00:45:53,640
Right? Because in effect, the one thing you don't do, and Elon Musk has proven this,

639
00:45:53,985 --> 00:45:57,125
don't piss off your future customers. Seems like sound logic.

640
00:45:58,145 --> 00:46:03,125
Don't piss off your future customers. If your future customer is the exact person I'm not saying

641
00:46:03,585 --> 00:46:09,480
the reason I don't use the word DI and I don't use any of that, I I just said the words. Diversity, tell me what's wrong with that.

642
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:18,300
Equity, tell me what's wrong with that. And inclusion, tell me what's wrong with that. First, let's talk about that. Right? And by the way and then if I wanna be, like,

643
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,780
really, really, like well, give me a couple of drinks, and this is what I tell people.

644
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:23,980
Okay?

645
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:25,755
Hey. You're Caucasian

646
00:46:27,175 --> 00:46:31,915
guy. Diversity, equity, and inclusion is for you. You're gonna be the minority in five, ten years.

647
00:46:32,295 --> 00:46:34,635
We're actually putting into place something for you.

648
00:46:35,175 --> 00:46:36,955
And that changes the whole thing completely.

649
00:46:37,655 --> 00:46:39,675
Right? My own stuff is think.

650
00:46:40,010 --> 00:46:49,390
And that's the other problem. Most people have stopped thinking. They just, like I don't know. They slurp from one place, and then they throw up in the other place, so they think that's life. It is an interesting,

651
00:46:49,930 --> 00:46:52,569
interesting future that we're that we're running into. And I think

652
00:46:53,735 --> 00:47:02,475
yeah, that that again is a is another, sort of fractal conversation. That to trust also, which is that's why I keep saying trust and integrity and part of integrity is, like,

653
00:47:02,775 --> 00:47:03,595
is it true?

654
00:47:04,375 --> 00:47:06,720
Well and I think, you know, and I think this is this is,

655
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:13,380
not something I'd planned to discuss, but I think it's quite interesting is what motivates it. Right? And I think I think,

656
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,660
and I observe that there are a lot

657
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:19,380
of reactions to DEI

658
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,300
as a policy matter

659
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:22,340
born

660
00:47:23,175 --> 00:47:24,395
of a belief

661
00:47:25,015 --> 00:47:26,235
that it is

662
00:47:27,175 --> 00:47:27,675
concocted.

663
00:47:28,615 --> 00:47:32,555
And by that I mean, and I'm gonna wade in this Sure. Perhaps dangerously,

664
00:47:32,935 --> 00:47:34,395
is that it is concocted.

665
00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:36,730
It is not authentic.

666
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:38,250
It is a checkbox,

667
00:47:39,910 --> 00:47:42,170
rather than and I think you've spoken to this eloquently.

668
00:47:42,869 --> 00:47:43,770
Rather than,

669
00:47:44,869 --> 00:47:46,490
you know, something that emerges

670
00:47:47,109 --> 00:47:48,650
as a core

671
00:47:49,345 --> 00:47:50,305
value belief,

672
00:47:52,065 --> 00:47:52,565
delivery

673
00:47:52,945 --> 00:48:09,839
of of service or product from an organization, from a company. The way I best describe it is the famous writer William Gibson in one of his books. I think it's William Gibson, maybe someone else. He's one of the famous right. But it it so this may not be a William Gibson, maybe someone else who basically said

674
00:48:10,780 --> 00:48:14,480
the future is already here, but it's not evenly distributed. Evenly distributed. Absolutely.

675
00:48:15,099 --> 00:48:17,280
So I basically believe that

676
00:48:17,735 --> 00:48:20,395
while the future is here and it's not evenly distributed,

677
00:48:21,095 --> 00:48:21,835
I believe

678
00:48:22,295 --> 00:48:29,115
talent is evenly distributed, but opportunity is not. Okay? And my basic belief is if talent is evenly distributed

679
00:48:30,279 --> 00:48:35,660
and opportunity is not, if opportunity was equally distributed and talent was equally distributed,

680
00:48:36,279 --> 00:48:36,779
right,

681
00:48:37,799 --> 00:48:38,539
in most

682
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:39,500
companies,

683
00:48:40,039 --> 00:48:40,539
leadership

684
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:42,460
would somewhat reflect

685
00:48:43,674 --> 00:48:46,174
the population of the country they were working in.

686
00:48:46,954 --> 00:48:53,775
It doesn't have to be an equal reflection, but somewhat. So my basic belief is if you are two standard deviations away from there,

687
00:48:54,474 --> 00:48:55,375
ask why.

688
00:48:56,010 --> 00:49:07,470
I'm not saying you can't be standard deviation. Talent is right? But for instance, if you basically are in a you're in in your your company's board has 10 people and all of them are Caucasian white men.

689
00:49:07,955 --> 00:49:11,495
And in your country, Caucasian white men is 30% of the population.

690
00:49:12,515 --> 00:49:14,775
Should you ask why is this happening?

691
00:49:15,475 --> 00:49:15,975
Okay?

692
00:49:17,395 --> 00:49:19,175
And you could basically say, well,

693
00:49:19,875 --> 00:49:25,280
talent is only for Caucasian white men. We are only selecting talented people. You might believe that.

694
00:49:25,580 --> 00:49:26,800
Now in effect,

695
00:49:28,540 --> 00:49:40,085
nobody will tell you that that's true. So you're basically saying is because we're not looking hard enough, and we should look hard enough. And by the way, in your company, if then 20% of your of your company happens to

696
00:49:40,385 --> 00:49:40,885
be,

697
00:49:41,185 --> 00:49:42,005
let's say,

698
00:49:42,465 --> 00:49:42,965
women.

699
00:49:43,744 --> 00:49:45,365
Right? Do they feel

700
00:49:46,385 --> 00:49:50,085
included in the company when they don't see a single leader looking like them?

701
00:49:50,625 --> 00:49:59,260
Those are the things. I'm not saying have a quota system. I'm not saying, you know, the the thing. But the reality of it is is is unless you believe talent is only distributed

702
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,620
to Africaners in South Africa, which apparently,

703
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:14,715
you know, between David Sachs and Elon Musk and Peter Thiel, they think. So they are considered to be refugees. I mean, that's the most racist thing I've seen, reverse racism I've ever seen. Okay? And my old stuff is like, that's bullshit.

704
00:50:15,095 --> 00:50:22,079
Just because you got a billion dollars doesn't mean you have any brains. You had brains in making one thing, but not your your

705
00:50:22,780 --> 00:50:29,359
your brains made you a billion dollars. Your billion dollars doesn't allow you to defecate on everything else which you don't know what you're talking about. Yes.

706
00:50:30,380 --> 00:50:36,880
Why I think they are losing trust. That's why they are losing trust. Right. Right. And I think in that Annette, you know, it's interesting. I I don't know

707
00:50:37,525 --> 00:50:42,085
if you just happen to know Rishad, a fellow by the name of John Robb, r o b b.

708
00:50:43,045 --> 00:50:45,125
If if not, I'll just give a,

709
00:50:45,685 --> 00:50:49,625
an accolade to John. I interviewed him a few weeks ago. In fact, it was the first published

710
00:50:49,925 --> 00:50:51,625
podcast or episode of my podcast.

711
00:50:52,030 --> 00:50:53,090
He talks about,

712
00:50:53,710 --> 00:50:54,210
largely

713
00:50:54,750 --> 00:50:55,250
the

714
00:50:56,110 --> 00:51:04,290
network swarms, the red, the blue, and others. And I think, you know, what bring that, rather brought that to mind, what brings that to mind

715
00:51:04,815 --> 00:51:16,115
is that depending on your swarm, depending on your tribe, depending on the pole that you've been drawn to, you will have clearly a very different take on this. Well, if we jump a bit, Rishad,

716
00:51:16,500 --> 00:51:25,880
there was a particular Substack article of yours that I really enjoyed called reinvented marketing. And you say the brand is the experience. The experiences are the brand.

717
00:51:26,420 --> 00:51:30,280
Given that, and if we if we look again to AI

718
00:51:30,660 --> 00:51:31,160
data,

719
00:51:31,905 --> 00:51:34,485
the natural tendency toward the whales

720
00:51:34,865 --> 00:51:36,245
in tech and other sectors,

721
00:51:37,265 --> 00:51:39,445
I'm thinking today, there was a significant

722
00:51:39,745 --> 00:51:44,465
yesterday, today, Coinbase breach. I don't know if you saw that news. There's a video out from,

723
00:51:46,070 --> 00:51:48,970
from Brian Armstrong, the the CEO of the company.

724
00:51:49,830 --> 00:51:51,130
Data breaches are

725
00:51:52,390 --> 00:51:53,370
almost darkly

726
00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:54,410
comically

727
00:51:54,790 --> 00:51:56,570
common. We all get these emails,

728
00:51:57,110 --> 00:52:01,345
saying, hey. Fantastic. You know, we're gonna give you six months of free credit rating,

729
00:52:01,724 --> 00:52:08,065
credit monitoring. And, oh, by the way, you know, all of your PII has been leaked. So the question in it is this,

730
00:52:09,085 --> 00:52:10,785
what does that look like

731
00:52:12,204 --> 00:52:13,025
with accelerating

732
00:52:13,325 --> 00:52:16,550
technologies like AI? Do you see it getting worse?

733
00:52:17,090 --> 00:52:18,950
Is it now just a,

734
00:52:19,490 --> 00:52:21,350
normative sort of state of affairs?

735
00:52:21,650 --> 00:52:24,950
What does that do to the future of trust in consumer

736
00:52:25,570 --> 00:52:27,190
trust with with large brands?

737
00:52:27,730 --> 00:52:28,870
So I think it

738
00:52:29,214 --> 00:52:34,355
it is probably gonna get worse in the near term for a couple of reasons. One

739
00:52:35,055 --> 00:52:40,035
is because many of the current ways of discovering, whether it's me,

740
00:52:40,734 --> 00:52:45,370
whether it's visual or voice, can now be replicated by the machines.

741
00:52:45,670 --> 00:52:46,170
Trivially.

742
00:52:46,630 --> 00:52:47,850
Trivially. Right?

743
00:52:48,230 --> 00:52:49,130
There is some

744
00:52:49,670 --> 00:52:56,490
risk, but it hasn't yet happened, and I don't think it will. I don't understand the mathematics of it. But people have said, you know,

745
00:52:56,815 --> 00:52:59,155
could the underlying, you know, technology,

746
00:52:59,455 --> 00:53:01,235
Satoshi's technology be,

747
00:53:02,415 --> 00:53:12,520
like, attacked? Could someone get, like, 51 dominance or whatever they Absolutely. Yes. You're correct. Now that that is the greatest great fear. Right. So and with quantum computing, with

748
00:53:12,820 --> 00:53:14,680
AI, will that actually happen?

749
00:53:14,980 --> 00:53:18,600
So I what I do believe is there are a few things, which is one,

750
00:53:19,220 --> 00:53:19,720
is,

751
00:53:20,180 --> 00:53:24,280
you know, it's very much the whole ideas, you know, consumer beware, bio beware.

752
00:53:24,684 --> 00:53:27,345
Mhmm. I believe that we have to basically assume

753
00:53:27,724 --> 00:53:29,025
that unless proven

754
00:53:30,845 --> 00:53:32,944
you know, in in the world of,

755
00:53:33,724 --> 00:53:35,505
you know, in the world of law,

756
00:53:36,365 --> 00:53:37,025
you are

757
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,660
innocent until you're proven guilty.

758
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,940
I think in the future world, you're gonna have to prove you're innocent

759
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,380
because you have to basically assume that

760
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:49,980
if there is an interaction

761
00:53:50,785 --> 00:53:55,125
and it even is slightly as something you don't know or even feels different,

762
00:53:55,585 --> 00:53:56,405
it's guilty.

763
00:53:57,185 --> 00:54:04,885
Okay? Mhmm. And the phone And if I hear you if I hear you correctly, Rishad, what you're saying is from the standpoint of the individual, the consumer, the person,

764
00:54:05,630 --> 00:54:06,770
I must assume

765
00:54:07,710 --> 00:54:09,410
this artifact, this this

766
00:54:09,950 --> 00:54:16,530
video, this is is is fake, and I have to I have to discern. I have to discern. I've gotta basically it is fake unless

767
00:54:17,310 --> 00:54:19,970
I am now finding reasons for it to be true

768
00:54:20,355 --> 00:54:31,955
versus I accept it as truthful. Right? Do you have do you have a take on how we go about that? I mean, that's a that's a perhaps a far reaching question. But So I'll I'll I'll give you sort of an an an indicator. Right? So right now, on my

769
00:54:33,315 --> 00:54:35,655
while we were talking, I received two texts.

770
00:54:36,180 --> 00:54:40,200
K. One was a translation of a phone voice message,

771
00:54:40,660 --> 00:54:42,760
and one was a text from Coinbase,

772
00:54:43,300 --> 00:54:49,319
okay, which you may be getting also all the time. And this is before any of this, which basically says, you know,

773
00:54:49,825 --> 00:54:57,045
this is your code. This is what you need to do. Just like all these, like, hackers and spam. Phishing attempts. Right. Voice mail is from the Indian consulate

774
00:54:57,345 --> 00:55:01,285
basically saying that unless I call them that there's something wrong with my passport.

775
00:55:01,790 --> 00:55:13,815
Now what's particularly interesting is the two slight problems here. One is I don't have an Indian passport, so I don't understand why the Indian consulate is calling me. Right? I have a US passport. In India, you don't you can't have both, which is number one.

776
00:55:14,214 --> 00:55:17,835
Second is the Indian consulate in Chicago is a friend of mine.

777
00:55:18,454 --> 00:55:27,355
So if there was a Checkmate. Spammer. If there was a particular issue, they could basically call me. Right? So I actually call them back, and I pretend I'm in the Interpol.

778
00:55:28,810 --> 00:55:35,630
Okay? And I say I'm from the Interpol. We are tracking everything. We found out your home, your number, and your family. Be very, very careful.

779
00:55:36,170 --> 00:55:41,085
I've let ice know. I've let Doge know. I've let everybody else know, and it freaks about.

780
00:55:41,865 --> 00:55:47,165
I might imagine that. Okay. And so what you wanna basically do is anything I get from anybody, I automatically

781
00:55:47,465 --> 00:55:48,445
basically assume,

782
00:55:48,745 --> 00:55:53,325
like, it doesn't sort of work. And so everything I've got is two factor authenticated.

783
00:55:54,260 --> 00:55:56,900
Okay? And so my whole basic belief is if there is a

784
00:55:57,859 --> 00:55:58,359
like,

785
00:55:58,740 --> 00:55:59,240
that

786
00:55:59,619 --> 00:56:03,720
everything has to be sort of two four. And so, for instance, if somebody says check into this,

787
00:56:04,260 --> 00:56:07,800
I know everything that's valuable to me is two things auth authenticated.

788
00:56:08,964 --> 00:56:11,464
Right? And so the reality of it is I

789
00:56:11,925 --> 00:56:14,025
now that sort of happens, but you can still

790
00:56:14,565 --> 00:56:21,865
they're getting better and better. So, you know, it's getting better and better. So to a great extent, that that is also why the brands matter so much.

791
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:24,740
And to a certain extent,

792
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:27,460
now what's begun to happen is people are trying

793
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:33,620
to go after the trust brands. So, you know, often, basically, you get something that looks like it's come from Apple and Cupertino.

794
00:56:34,335 --> 00:56:46,515
Right? Yeah. Because the production quality in these emails is going going way up in my experience. It's it's going yeah. And and so the the the the key thing right now is I've started to basically believe that unless I initiate something,

795
00:56:47,810 --> 00:56:57,910
I don't trust what's coming at me. Mhmm. I'm not saying I don't trust everything that's coming at me. It come up. Right? But my old stuff is, like, anything that is asking for information,

796
00:56:58,210 --> 00:56:59,110
I don't trust.

797
00:57:00,290 --> 00:57:00,790
Okay?

798
00:57:01,090 --> 00:57:01,990
A yeah.

799
00:57:02,475 --> 00:57:02,975
Yep.

800
00:57:03,435 --> 00:57:06,655
If if some someone asked any information, whether it's a login,

801
00:57:06,955 --> 00:57:09,535
a credit card, my own stuff is okay. This is fishy.

802
00:57:09,835 --> 00:57:10,895
Because, by the way,

803
00:57:11,595 --> 00:57:13,935
whoever this person is already has that.

804
00:57:15,130 --> 00:57:26,270
So Apple has my credit card. Apple has right? So what are they calling me for a credit card number for? Absolutely. And let me let me ask you a a question based upon that. And I don't know that you necessarily are

805
00:57:26,650 --> 00:57:29,230
consulting advising at this level, but

806
00:57:29,664 --> 00:57:31,605
I think many, myself included,

807
00:57:32,944 --> 00:57:33,765
are concerned

808
00:57:34,384 --> 00:57:34,884
with

809
00:57:35,825 --> 00:57:36,325
companies

810
00:57:36,625 --> 00:57:37,125
responding

811
00:57:37,825 --> 00:57:40,724
to an increasing level and sophistication of attack

812
00:57:41,505 --> 00:57:44,244
by making everything a KYC activity.

813
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:50,819
And and and, specifically, what I mean is being asked for what to me are seemingly trivial,

814
00:57:52,319 --> 00:57:53,460
commercial transactions,

815
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:56,900
for increasing amounts of verification

816
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,905
data, photos, passport, etcetera. And then

817
00:58:01,445 --> 00:58:04,265
I will just, be that cynical guy. Inevitably,

818
00:58:05,365 --> 00:58:09,065
their breach did leaks. And so I say that to ask,

819
00:58:09,445 --> 00:58:11,785
in your engagement with these senior leaders,

820
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,220
is that a point of conversation or is it taken

821
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:23,619
that this is the future? That k y you know, sort of the ultimate KYC is coming and we've just gotta keep piling more data and to reduce risk

822
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:25,300
on the company's staff.

823
00:58:26,065 --> 00:58:31,845
So I think Boris obviously have that problem, but the other one is to a great extent at some particular stage.

824
00:58:32,145 --> 00:58:38,085
We're gonna have these, like, trust things. So, you know, increasingly, many companies are using actually

825
00:58:38,790 --> 00:58:40,570
Apple or Google or other people

826
00:58:40,950 --> 00:58:46,810
as, you know, whether it's a app Right. Wallets or things like that. So I would I would sort of anticipate

827
00:58:47,430 --> 00:58:47,930
that

828
00:58:48,550 --> 00:58:51,130
there should be maybe six or seven or eight

829
00:58:51,670 --> 00:58:52,170
broad

830
00:58:53,545 --> 00:58:58,845
KYC type of keepers. Like, for instance, I went through the process of getting real ID.

831
00:58:59,465 --> 00:58:59,965
Okay?

832
00:59:00,585 --> 00:59:01,085
And

833
00:59:02,265 --> 00:59:06,125
I can say, okay. So if if I have this real ID, the government

834
00:59:06,505 --> 00:59:07,485
of your state

835
00:59:08,190 --> 00:59:09,730
has verified and checked

836
00:59:10,510 --> 00:59:12,369
four pieces of information,

837
00:59:12,990 --> 00:59:14,770
which should be enough for any KYC

838
00:59:15,070 --> 00:59:16,369
person. Right?

839
00:59:16,750 --> 00:59:21,250
They have basically insisted that you bring to them your passport or your naturalization.

840
00:59:22,525 --> 00:59:26,145
No. Your birth certificate so your your passport has to be there.

841
00:59:27,325 --> 00:59:27,825
So

842
00:59:28,445 --> 00:59:29,425
or your naturalization.

843
00:59:29,725 --> 00:59:31,665
So they they say you're a US citizen.

844
00:59:32,285 --> 00:59:37,505
Right? Or you you're you're green card material. So you're a legal US citizen or US citizen.

845
00:59:38,079 --> 00:59:47,380
They want either because of your passport, if you don't have a passport, they want you to bring your birth certificate. You have to bring your Social Security card. You have to basically bring two sources

846
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:48,740
of an address

847
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:51,780
no later than last ninety days,

848
00:59:52,585 --> 00:59:53,085
which

849
00:59:53,465 --> 00:59:55,965
include things like either a utility bill,

850
00:59:56,425 --> 01:00:01,005
something like from a government or quasi government My my wife is an immigrant, and it is a,

851
01:00:02,505 --> 01:00:08,900
a seemingly never ending cycle. But please go ahead. Yeah. So I'm deeply familiar. So so so I went through that little

852
01:00:09,599 --> 01:00:17,140
drama, which I had fortunately, I had I had everything, so I went through it. I waited in line. The whole thing took ninety minutes, and I was done.

853
01:00:17,599 --> 01:00:19,060
Now that particular stage

854
01:00:20,595 --> 01:00:25,095
that they have that, they should be able to validate a lot of things for me in the future.

855
01:00:25,475 --> 01:00:27,975
Like, my old basically, I got this card,

856
01:00:28,755 --> 01:00:30,055
and I got this passport.

857
01:00:30,435 --> 01:00:35,895
So stop asking me stupid questions. Okay? And forget about passport. You you this is my driver's license.

858
01:00:36,220 --> 01:00:41,440
Mhmm. You don't need anything else, bro. You you I'm a US citizen. Do I live in that address? I live in that address.

859
01:00:42,140 --> 01:00:48,320
Right? Is that my silly picture? It's my silly picture. What more do you want? So my whole thing is, to your point,

860
01:00:48,780 --> 01:00:50,080
there comes a point

861
01:00:50,685 --> 01:00:53,185
where over engineering destroys everything.

862
01:00:54,285 --> 01:01:01,665
Okay? And that is part of what is happening with, like, say, KYC is because the everybody's trying to do KYC, and I'm not sure they're trying to do KYC.

863
01:01:02,570 --> 01:01:10,990
So here's my sinister belief. Remember, I said Please. Right? I believe they're trying to do KYCs to get more information for their databases. It's got nothing to do with security.

864
01:01:11,290 --> 01:01:14,570
Oh, I I would argue that's not sinister. It is it is,

865
01:01:15,130 --> 01:01:16,430
a a a logical conclusion.

866
01:01:16,765 --> 01:01:25,585
Yeah. And because now all of them have basically said we can't trust any so what's really interesting is every organization that works with every organization doesn't trust every organization.

867
01:01:26,525 --> 01:01:34,560
Okay? Health care. Let's let's look at health care in The US, for example. Let's look at it. Alright. But it's for but it's for our benefit. Right? It's for our but but here's what's basically happened.

868
01:01:35,100 --> 01:01:40,800
At the at the big what I anticipate, and I'm looking at this, and this is one of the reasons why I think

869
01:01:41,500 --> 01:01:44,160
coming back to, like, trust and rethinking work

870
01:01:44,985 --> 01:01:45,965
are all connected.

871
01:01:47,225 --> 01:01:47,725
So

872
01:01:48,345 --> 01:01:49,085
I believe

873
01:01:50,665 --> 01:01:53,085
I I have three beliefs. I believe that

874
01:01:53,945 --> 01:01:58,045
everybody's job, 50% of it is real and 50% of it is bullshit.

875
01:01:58,905 --> 01:01:59,405
Okay?

876
01:01:59,990 --> 01:02:04,410
Of the 50% that's bullshit, half of it has to be done because we're working with human beings.

877
01:02:04,710 --> 01:02:10,970
So you have to spend at least 25% of your time doing stupid stuff just to keep relationships going and things like that. Okay?

878
01:02:11,349 --> 01:02:17,155
As long as there's human beings in this drama, it's fine. So that's okay. And 25% is pretty useless. Okay?

879
01:02:17,595 --> 01:02:21,675
And I always tell people if you don't have time to learn, take it from that 25%.

880
01:02:21,675 --> 01:02:26,815
That's not helping anybody. Mhmm. Don't take it from sleep. Don't take it from your family. You got

881
01:02:27,430 --> 01:02:36,810
two hours every if you work if you have a eight hour day, there's two hours that is useless. Go get it hour of work. Reclaim that. Okay. That's that's one. But the second one, to a great extent,

882
01:02:37,750 --> 01:02:40,010
is so when you actually think about it

883
01:02:40,630 --> 01:02:41,370
and then

884
01:02:42,045 --> 01:02:49,744
modern technology allows you to disrupt major industries. I believe that in many, many industries, this fits fifty, sixty, 70 percent fact.

885
01:02:50,525 --> 01:02:51,025
Okay?

886
01:02:51,325 --> 01:02:54,464
Which includes, by the way, in industries like pharmaceuticals

887
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:57,300
and the whole medical establishment.

888
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:02,500
Because my basic belief is why do you have 20% of GDP and we have such bad outcomes?

889
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:10,579
Yes. Okay? Yes. And so so the reality of it is what have they been protected? So I went to the University of Chicago. The University of Chicago is a deeply capitalist

890
01:03:11,535 --> 01:03:20,835
place. Certainly. You are now writing books called Saving the Capitalism from Capitalists, which was the first book that came out ten years ago. Because what we often have in America is

891
01:03:21,135 --> 01:03:22,675
there's two types of capitalism.

892
01:03:23,135 --> 01:03:24,915
In some cases, we've got real capitalism.

893
01:03:25,730 --> 01:03:27,589
Some cases, we have mediated capitalism.

894
01:03:28,130 --> 01:03:30,150
And increasingly, we have crony capitalism.

895
01:03:31,089 --> 01:03:34,549
Okay. And crony capitalism is when capital takes over government.

896
01:03:35,250 --> 01:03:35,750
And

897
01:03:36,210 --> 01:03:37,589
capitalism at its

898
01:03:38,385 --> 01:03:39,925
base is about competition.

899
01:03:41,105 --> 01:03:41,605
But

900
01:03:41,905 --> 01:03:44,645
increasingly, what we're doing is more and more of our businesses

901
01:03:44,945 --> 01:03:45,845
don't have competitors.

902
01:03:47,105 --> 01:03:50,965
Or they'll have another competitor who they meet at some club and they basically,

903
01:03:51,265 --> 01:03:56,370
in a nice way, wink at each other. Absolutely. Or they license each other's technology at that point. They're they're indiscernible.

904
01:03:56,750 --> 01:03:59,970
And so what is basically happening is you're gonna see this massive explosion.

905
01:04:00,430 --> 01:04:04,850
And so a lot of the job infrastructure of America is also built on this bullshit.

906
01:04:05,565 --> 01:04:08,545
Okay? And as technology comes, that bullshit's gonna end.

907
01:04:09,325 --> 01:04:13,825
Work and problems and opportunities and experiences are gonna be huge.

908
01:04:14,205 --> 01:04:52,180
And, therefore, there's gonna be a lot of work, but they're not gonna be any jobs. And what tends to basically happen is in the end, I tell an individual, like, someone says, okay, Rashad. You know, you're now on Medicare. You have got out retired, and you're an idiot. Okay. So we are young, and you're talking bullshit stuff. Like, what are we supposed to do? So I said, look. You do the same thing I'm doing. Okay? I said, I I'd like to hopefully work health holding for another ten, fifteen years. So if that's true, I gotta do I gotta stay current. I can't, like, say I did this five years ago or three years ago. Matters no not not much to people. So what I did in the past matters to some extent, but I said, you have to learn how to operate like a company of one.

909
01:04:52,640 --> 01:05:02,355
Mhmm. Okay? And in that, it isn't I mean mine. I said, what is a company of what? Hone, architect, and scout the craft and stay at the top of your game. Because people will hire for expertise.

910
01:05:02,975 --> 01:05:04,515
They're not gonna hire for experience.

911
01:05:05,935 --> 01:05:06,435
Second,

912
01:05:07,215 --> 01:05:08,035
have a

913
01:05:08,415 --> 01:05:09,555
ability to collaborate

914
01:05:10,175 --> 01:05:14,040
because we're gonna have to work with other people or alien machines or whatever it is.

915
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:15,020
Third,

916
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:16,620
have a great reputation

917
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:18,780
built on trust and integrity.

918
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:25,020
Okay? You do those three, you will succeed in the future. So it comes down to reputation and trust,

919
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:28,860
highly important. And that's a theme song that I run through everything.

920
01:05:30,125 --> 01:05:31,025
Because interestingly,

921
01:05:31,405 --> 01:05:32,224
it's both

922
01:05:33,085 --> 01:05:33,585
technologically

923
01:05:34,525 --> 01:05:35,025
aligned

924
01:05:35,405 --> 01:05:37,265
and human aligned. Yes.

925
01:05:38,285 --> 01:05:40,785
Yes. And and in doing so, you have effectively

926
01:05:41,085 --> 01:05:46,990
answered my my closing question. But I'd like to ask it anyway because I feel like we could probably go deeper.

927
01:05:47,570 --> 01:05:54,510
I mean, Rashad, your work, you have helped guide businesses through waves of change across decades. And I know that from your background.

928
01:05:55,155 --> 01:05:58,135
As you say, balancing technology with human values.

929
01:05:58,515 --> 01:06:00,535
Maybe this is a glimpse to your next book.

930
01:06:00,995 --> 01:06:03,475
But if we look out beyond 2029

931
01:06:03,475 --> 01:06:04,855
and if it happens sooner,

932
01:06:05,315 --> 01:06:08,775
then all the better. But what's the boldest shift

933
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:10,740
that leaders should make

934
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:19,380
to weave trust into the fabric of their organizations given, as you say, that it is the currency of the future? I believe that

935
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:20,260
leaders

936
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:21,700
need to,

937
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:22,900
a,

938
01:06:23,385 --> 01:06:24,925
be very clear

939
01:06:26,025 --> 01:06:26,525
that

940
01:06:26,825 --> 01:06:27,565
they themselves

941
01:06:27,945 --> 01:06:28,685
are vulnerable

942
01:06:29,225 --> 01:06:30,125
to change,

943
01:06:31,305 --> 01:06:32,925
and therefore, they themselves

944
01:06:33,225 --> 01:06:33,965
as individuals

945
01:06:34,745 --> 01:06:36,765
are in the process of reinvention.

946
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:40,900
K? So you basically say,

947
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:44,339
I am reinventing myself in order to remain relevant.

948
01:06:45,520 --> 01:07:00,795
If you ask any leader with enough alcohol in them, they'll say that they're struggling to figure out whether they're still relevant. So why don't you tell people, I now have to invest in my time, in my learning, in how I do and what I do. Can I have all of you also help me remain relevant? That is number one.

949
01:07:01,734 --> 01:07:09,950
You start with that. Second is you communicate in ways that in every interaction, you leave people with clarity, energy, and belief.

950
01:07:11,130 --> 01:07:11,630
Clarity,

951
01:07:12,250 --> 01:07:22,674
I know what I just got said. Energy is I get more energized by this even if I have to do a lot of work. Mhmm. And belief is I believe myself and I trust the person who just told me.

952
01:07:23,454 --> 01:07:23,954
Okay?

953
01:07:24,654 --> 01:07:25,635
Number three

954
01:07:26,575 --> 01:07:29,315
is recognize that the future comes from the slime

955
01:07:30,270 --> 01:07:31,570
and not the heavens.

956
01:07:32,590 --> 01:07:35,650
And that doesn't mean you go hang hang around the slime,

957
01:07:36,030 --> 01:07:41,250
but always think that you don't know where you're going. And that's my thing about think like an immigrant.

958
01:07:41,870 --> 01:07:43,250
So think like an outsider.

959
01:07:44,025 --> 01:07:45,165
Think like an underdog,

960
01:07:45,545 --> 01:07:53,724
and think with a future focus because that's what immigrants do. Fantastic. Would would you say I'll I'll throw a part b. I mean, I I might imagine

961
01:07:54,025 --> 01:07:55,244
that much of that

962
01:07:56,665 --> 01:07:57,964
has always been

963
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:01,940
true or or and so much Yep. Of what we need for the future,

964
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:03,620
we learn from the past.

965
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:05,940
Are there going to be different expressions?

966
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:12,420
Are there going to be different skill sets? There will be new skill sets. There'll be expressions. I think the new skill sets

967
01:08:13,025 --> 01:08:15,605
are going to basically be what I call the six c's.

968
01:08:16,225 --> 01:08:18,725
But and so what I basically say

969
01:08:19,265 --> 01:08:19,765
is

970
01:08:20,465 --> 01:08:24,245
when someone asks me what do you do, so I basically say I use modern technology,

971
01:08:24,945 --> 01:08:27,699
and I combine them with old Tradecraft.

972
01:08:29,679 --> 01:08:30,659
Traditions. Okay?

973
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:33,940
So what I basically do is I use traditions,

974
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:39,699
which are things like trust and integrity and excellence and all of that stuff.

975
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:41,540
But I use modern technology

976
01:08:41,985 --> 01:08:42,485
to

977
01:08:43,185 --> 01:08:56,405
express it, update myself, upgrade myself, and connect. Okay? You do both of those. Right. So with that being said, what are these things that I would suggest to people? What they are and they are obviously expressed in completely different ways in this new world.

978
01:08:57,140 --> 01:08:59,080
Is the sixties. I call them the sixties.

979
01:08:59,700 --> 01:09:01,720
'3 of them are about you, the individual.

980
01:09:02,180 --> 01:09:02,680
Learn

981
01:09:03,140 --> 01:09:04,200
to be cognitively

982
01:09:04,580 --> 01:09:06,520
updated, so constantly learn.

983
01:09:07,380 --> 01:09:13,405
Be creative, which is connect dots in new ways, and be curious, constantly asking what if and why not.

984
01:09:14,505 --> 01:09:15,965
But we don't work by ourselves.

985
01:09:16,344 --> 01:09:18,204
So the next one is basically

986
01:09:18,985 --> 01:09:20,685
find a way to basically,

987
01:09:21,465 --> 01:09:21,965
a,

988
01:09:23,540 --> 01:09:24,200
be collaborative,

989
01:09:25,860 --> 01:09:26,360
b,

990
01:09:27,060 --> 01:09:32,200
is earn people's confidence, and three, upgrade your communication skills, writing and speaking.

991
01:09:33,220 --> 01:09:38,040
Certainly. Okay? And so if you think about it, if people basically say,

992
01:09:38,715 --> 01:09:39,614
I am confident

993
01:09:40,395 --> 01:09:41,054
in Sean.

994
01:09:41,915 --> 01:09:42,415
Sean

995
01:09:42,875 --> 01:09:44,335
is a collaborative person,

996
01:09:45,835 --> 01:09:46,335
and

997
01:09:47,275 --> 01:09:48,094
Sean is

998
01:09:49,435 --> 01:09:50,815
convincing through his communications.

999
01:09:51,514 --> 01:09:52,014
Okay?

1000
01:09:53,195 --> 01:09:55,420
I I wanna work with Sean. Oh, by the way,

1001
01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:56,860
Sean

1002
01:09:57,400 --> 01:09:59,020
is state of the art because he's

1003
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:01,739
cognitively updated, put this right?

1004
01:10:02,679 --> 01:10:06,380
He's connecting dots in new ways. He's telling me things I did not know.

1005
01:10:07,175 --> 01:10:10,235
And he's willing to question himself in what we're doing, curiously.

1006
01:10:11,255 --> 01:10:14,875
You come across people like that, you hold onto them for life.

1007
01:10:15,335 --> 01:10:23,270
Absolutely. Okay? So you say I say and those, by the way, the way you do it will change as technology changes, but those become sort of the six c's.

1008
01:10:23,810 --> 01:10:28,290
Right. That's a terrific place to to wrap it up, Rishad, and a great set of,

1009
01:10:29,330 --> 01:10:40,135
a great set of of lessons to learn for those who, undoubtedly will want to read your book. So very much appreciate it. We will look forward to your future articles. And is there a next book? Last question.

1010
01:10:40,755 --> 01:10:45,415
I don't think so. After I wrote the first book, I didn't think I was gonna write a second one.

1011
01:10:45,955 --> 01:10:49,015
And then I did because I realized there was this thing of work.

1012
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:54,500
I tend to do things in threes. I'm going to do things like I said three points, etcetera.

1013
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:57,060
So if there is one,

1014
01:10:57,440 --> 01:10:58,660
I'm doing this backwards.

1015
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:02,900
I know what it'll begin with, the first letter of the title,

1016
01:11:03,205 --> 01:11:14,025
and I know the color of the jacket. That's all I have so far. That's right. Is my both my books have begun. One is called restoring and one is called rethinking. Yes. One had a white cover, one had a red cover.

1017
01:11:14,485 --> 01:11:17,385
And this is both for my French and, you know,

1018
01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:34,360
American. Because I work for a French company and for American. Yes. This one, therefore, has to be a blue cover. Fantastic. We'll we'll we'll know it when we see it. And it will begin with r, and that might be reinventing. But who knows? Outstanding. Well, in the meanwhile, we have your writing on Substack. Thank you again, Rashad. It's been a pleasure. Very much.