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I'm telling you, I get these mandates. So our agents send us monthly. I mean, I could dial up

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any network. I get all these emails that says, you know, whatever, whether it's NBC or A&E or

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Showtime, this is what we're trying to push. This is what we're trying to say. And they want people

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like me, producers to come in and pitch them shows that help push that narrative. And if you do it

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and your show gets greenlit, you know, you get a pilot, maybe they got picked up to series or if

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It's a movie. You sell the movie. And then you do that. And that was all sort of on the tail end

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of the woke movement as well. So there was a lot of that. If you talk to people one-on-one in

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Hollywood, most of them were all against that woke stuff. Most of them were against the council

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culture. Most of them were sort of like these are these like hippie artist people that are an

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into free thought. But it's like they know that if they don't march to and carry the torch for

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what Hollywood's saying, they won't get hired. Hello, everybody. Thank you so much for coming

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by for another episode of the podcast. I really appreciate you coming by. Today, we have another

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wonderful, fascinating Bitcoin brain who is just doing all sorts of cool stuff.

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His name is Terrence Michael. He is a Bitcoiner, Hollywood producer, entrepreneur, real estate

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investor and author doing all sorts of cool stuff. So I can't wait to hear that story,

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how all of this managed to come together. So Terrence, really appreciate being here, man.

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Thank you for coming.

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Thanks for having me, Ben. I'm excited. I've heard your podcast before and your name around town.

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And then you were on the Bitcoin Today spaces. So I didn't realize you were the same Ben.

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Yes. Yes. So that's how we connected because I'd heard you on DJ Valerie B Love Show who

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Everyone loves her. And also, what was it? I think the Bitcoin Matrix was it? I can't remember. You've been on a bunch of them.

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Yeah.

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And your voice was familiar. So I recognize your voice from that space. I was like, oh, yeah, this guy has a cool story to tell. So I need to hear this story. Hollywood to real estate to Bitcoin. How did that end up flowing through your life? It's a very interesting pathway. So let's hear it.

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Sure. So first the quick version just for the Bitcoiners listening, and then we can back up if you find it interesting, Ben.

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But the quick story is that in hindsight, after I found Bitcoin, I've realized my journey has made sense in hindsight.

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And that's that I've always wanted to tell stories. I've always wanted to create. I love narratives.

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I fell in love with the hero's journey early on. And Hollywood allowed me to do that. But Hollywood is very, very competitive and very broken in that when you work, you can make incredible amounts of currency, of fiat.

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You can pull in a lot of money, but it's very few and far between.

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It's like a traveling circus, and when the circus ends, you're trying to find the next circus.

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And in my case, as a producer, I'm the one that has to build the circus.

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No one hires the producer.

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The producer says, I'm going to form a corporation.

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I'm going to go all around the world and try to raise millions of dollars, find the right script, the right director, cast it, blah, blah, blah.

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And the average movie that you watch in Hollywood takes seven years to get to the screen from the time of inception.

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So it's a process that I did not end up liking.

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Even though I went to business school, I hated the money-raising process.

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So after being in Hollywood for a long time, but being worried and especially seeing my friends and my staff and crew not be able to save their money, I realized real estate was the best store of value.

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Again, this is all in hindsight.

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Now that we're Bitcoiners, Ben, you and I know this.

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It's like, ah, I didn't realize that that's what I was doing, but I got into real estate and I wasn't a contractor.

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I wasn't a builder.

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I wasn't anything.

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It was just sort of a means to an ends, right?

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Similar to money.

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And so again, in hindsight, I was like this was my store of value, but there was so much friction and so much work and so much stress.

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And again, it wasn't my native expertise or talents.

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I had no schooling.

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I didn't even own a hammer the first time I started to take apart a house.

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My mom literally had to buy me a little kit that I now laugh at.

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And so continuing the quick version, then when Bitcoin came along, I realized, oh, there's a very peaceful version to do what I've been trying to do all along because I've realized that I've never really been able to save.

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And I've been psyoped into thinking investing was a positive thing where for people that are professionals, potentially like yourself, it can be very positive.

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But for most of the world, it's kind of a negative thing.

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It's kind of like I have to do this just to survive.

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So that's the quick version of why my journey makes sense when I look back at it.

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None of it did at the time, and I think that's because a lot of us don't zoom out, especially in the fiat world.

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And we get stuck in this game, this external scorecard of putting points on the board.

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You need to be responsible. This is what you need to do.

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You go to school and you make money and you go on Wall Street, you've got a real estate developer or whatever.

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So, yeah.

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Yeah, I love that.

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And I definitely agree that there are really only a few weirdos like us that just are fascinated by economics and money and investing.

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And I think that a lot of people outside of that bubble in artists are a great example, which you're part of that field of creating art, creating stories, creating these things that shouldn't have to require you to be a part-time investor.

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And that's why one of my favorite things on the show is to bring artists in here, which I've been doing as much as I can, of asking them how Bitcoin has helped their lives.

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because these people aren't typically super technical,

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really wanting to do all this investing stuff.

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They just want to create art

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because that's the way their brain is designed.

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That's what we want them to be able to do.

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That's what any good society with a good culture

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should really want to create an environment

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where artists can do their thing

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and not have to be suppressed by these things.

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So could you maybe give a breakdown of why Bitcoin is so good,

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specifically for people that just want to create cool art?

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Because I think that's where you come from.

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Yeah. The simplest reason Bitcoin in general, zooming out, just allows anyone to really honor their talents and their sacrifices and the past decisions that they've had to make, whether that was academic or as some kind of trade, is that it just honors that time better than anything else we've ever had.

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Right. It it captures it because it can't be inflated and it can't be censored and no one can stop it.

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And artists, you know, they aren't on W2s. They don't work at IBM for 30 years in a cubicle.

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And so, you know, they they can't get mortgages. They they're sort of cut off from a lot of traditional finance because people look at them as outcasts and it seems risky.

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And Bitcoin sort of balances that out for artists where you're working in a seemingly risky business, but now you get to save in something that's the least risky of all.

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So if – in other words, if the – if you're like a math professor or you want to teach violin or whatever it is like that you're meant to do, and you don't have to get pulled into the liquidity cycles of, oh, there's a real estate boom.

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So let's everyone just become a realtor, right, which – and nothing against realtors, but you can throw a rock and hit someone, and it's not that hard.

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I mean I literally tell some of my friends who are sort of like nihilistic about life and stuff.

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I'm like, you know what?

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In six weeks, you could become a realtor and it's like just whatever.

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But it's like we're pulling people away from what they should be doing, what their purpose is, what feeds them because they have to chase the money.

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And Bitcoin will allow people – it's not entirely.

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People are compensated for the amount of value that they put into the economy because money is just an authentication token for that work in the past.

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But if you're doing valuable work, and most creatives are – most creatives, if they've been doing it for a while, you can go back and they can tell you the times where, oh, I sold this painting for this.

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I made this thing for this where they have made money, but they haven't been able to carry it forward.

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And so Bitcoin allows that.

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all things that you know, Ben, but maybe some newer people in your audience.

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Oh, yeah. We never get tired of just bringing it back to basics for people. I think that's

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where the most important work is being done is the people that are helping folks get off zero

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and just understanding why you should at least be interested in Bitcoin and think about it and

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begin learning about it. Because we keep seeing this where people from all different walks of life

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and interests and expertises are all finding that Bitcoin really applies to them in a very profound way

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that they didn't really believe before.

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And that usually just comes down to it protects what you just call their authentication token of the work they've done.

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And that is so important for humans because when you put in a whole bunch of blood, sweat, and tears to earn this fiat,

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and then it just gets stolen from you through inflation by the government printing and diluting

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the supply and that's something we talked about here a lot that is just very evil and when you

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really think about it and then on top of that they tax you to death like every single way you look at

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it people are just having their their work their energy that they've spent doing things in their

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life is just being taken away from them and that has a crazy impact on society that you don't really

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think about. And people are really trained to not think about that through the government's

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schooling system that doesn't teach them anything about actual economics or real life skills,

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because they don't want you to understand that this is really just a big machine that just sucks

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people's life force out to continue producing war and just causing violence everywhere and just

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doing all these really dark things. Yeah. I mean, I was just, I was in the gym just yesterday and I

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I was just thinking about this and I was like, you know, I went to business school.

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I've studied business.

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I studied economics.

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I studied finance.

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Not once in any class, anywhere, any essay, any project did anyone ever say, you know, what is money?

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And it's like when you think about it, like when do you ever go into any industry or career and not know what the thing is that you're proselytizing or that you're working in?

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It's like, you know, you go into the car industry.

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What is a car?

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Okay, let's break it down.

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No one has said what is money.

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We just jumped past the most basics and said okay now let sell it let trade it This is why you need a central bank Yeah It like it and we Bitcoiners know that But it just so it was just like wow how could we never like the first line of every book should be like okay what is money

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Then let's get into how you can make more of it or whatever.

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Yeah, it just moves right past the actual foundation because once you learn the foundation and that question, what is money, it gives you the tools required to start really thinking through what's happening and why it's so evil.

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And that does not benefit those who are in control because you quickly figure out that it doesn't work for the 99.99% of people out there that are just trying to live their life and create cool things.

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And I think that's probably why COVID was such a pivotal – a monumental milestone for so many Bitcoiners.

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Like so many people came in at that point or they started to really understand.

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Like I came in in 2017, but I started to really get it in 2020 because then you really – especially in the Western world and in America.

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If you're not in the global south or Western Africa or whatever, you don't feel the inflation because it's just slow enough that you grow up thinking, oh, well, that's normal.

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Prices just rise, right?

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Isn't that what they're supposed to do?

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But like when COVID hit, you're like, oh, wow.

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And like the entire money supply like practically doubled within months.

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You're like, oh, wow.

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They just opened the faucet on us and now we're drowning.

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Yeah, and it's interesting you just mentioned those two years, 2017 and 2020.

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because those were also two major stepping stone moments for me.

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I got into crypto in 2017.

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And then 2020, it was a little bit different for me.

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I wasn't really paying super close attention to all the COVID money printing stuff

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and the stock market stuff.

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I mostly just looked at the stock market like,

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oh, that's weird.

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Stocks are doing crazy and Bitcoin went way down.

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But the reason why that year was big for me is because during the lockdowns,

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I was living in New Zealand and just in this little tiny house to myself.

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and had a lot of free time to just research stuff.

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So I got a bunch of books and I stumbled across some YouTube videos

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that answered the question, what is money?

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And for me, it was the gold bug, Mike Maloney.

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I'm not sure if you've heard of him,

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but he has a really good YouTube series called The Hidden Secrets of Money.

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And when I watched that, it finally connected the dots for me.

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He's not even a Bitcoiner.

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Like he doesn't talk about Bitcoin.

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He just talks about money and why fiat sucks so much.

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He talks about like the central bank and money printing, right?

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Yeah.

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With those little graphics.

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Yeah, yeah, I've seen him.

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And for me, that connected the final dot of like, okay, this is money is the real thing that we need to fix.

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It's the money itself.

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Like you said, there's like this fundamental thing.

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And that's another thing that crypto does to you, this crypto virus of taking you in all these different directions of all these different utilities and things when really the foundation is the money, which is the most important thing.

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Was that a similar journey for you?

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Like in that year range, how did you figure it out?

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Totally.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, you actually just made me think for the first time because we always talk about like, oh, when did you get into Bitcoin?

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When did you get into Bitcoin?

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And you think about the first year you maybe bought $50 worth or – I've gone back and looked at my first trade.

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November 2017, I bought $100 of Bitcoin, and I thought, wow, what did I just spend $100 on?

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But really, to be intellectually honest, it was crypto at 2017 because I also bought all this other junk, and I didn't get the best advice.

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And I was told, yeah, you need Ethereum.

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Bitcoin is the Microsoft of crypto, but Ethereum is the Apple.

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You want something faster and dynamic and all these things are going to come out.

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So I'm like, oh, okay, I better buy Ethereum.

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And then of course-

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I thought of it like the app store.

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This was kind of what I was told was-

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Yes.

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I did hear like Bitcoin is the digital gold, but I didn't know why gold was even useful

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at that point.

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I didn't understand gold.

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And so I heard Ethereum is like this whole ecosystem of different things that you can build, and it totally got me.

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Well, yeah, and coming from the fiat world, that makes sense because that's all we've known.

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We've only known these sort of centralized companies that provide things for us.

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And then there were these influencers like James Altucher at the time.

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Remember he had his ads everywhere, and he's like, oh, no, you just put $1,000 into each of $20, and you're going to be wealthy.

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Because at that point, we're still all looking for a trade.

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It was just something speculative to make more fiat. We didn't realize the whole point was to escape it.

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And so, yeah, like you, I think it was probably closer to 2020 of the ups and downs and going into the bear.

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We hit that bear right away at the beginning of 2018. I think we dropped below 4,000 at that point.

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And I said, you know, I should learn a little bit about what all this is.

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But yeah, COVID, you know, taking Russia off of the SWIFT system, you know, confiscating the $63 billion of their gold, the Canadian truckers, like all these events really just made it sink in that, oh, man, we are just sort of like these ants in this project.

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and they can just move the food around for us to direct us where they want to.

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Absolutely.

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I'd love to rack your brain a little bit here about the Hollywood and just the entertainment industry.

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So one of the things that Bitcoiners love to do is we love to analyze how fiat has ruined things,

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which has ruined everything.

200
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And so many people, you will hear them say, they don't make movies like they used to.

201
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You watch an old movie from several decades ago compared to a movie coming out on Netflix tonight.

202
00:17:10,751 --> 00:17:12,311
It's just – it doesn't feel the same.

203
00:17:12,371 --> 00:17:15,431
It doesn't have the same heart and it doesn't have the same power to it.

204
00:17:15,551 --> 00:17:19,111
Same with TV shows, all sorts of different entertainment outlets.

205
00:17:19,651 --> 00:17:25,631
What's your thought on fiat entertainment, fiat movies, and how has it changed this industry?

206
00:17:26,751 --> 00:17:28,671
So, I mean really it's inflation.

207
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And so what has happened is that because there's so much money in the supply and so much of that money trickles over to Hollywood to help enforce where central banks want that money to go, right?

208
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Big pharma, big medicine, big food, right?

209
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Because really, we always break down money and we say, what's the problem?

210
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Well, if you break down Hollywood, every single thing out there is just a plate to show you an ad.

211
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And those ads are to sell medicines and whatnot for all the ills that we already have from all the money printing.

212
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So because of that and because there's so much money, movies themselves, TV shows themselves have been inflated.

213
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They're worth less, and so there's tons of them.

214
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Like it used to be you would get like 20 movies a year, and you look at an ad in a newspaper, and you could look at that ad for 30 weeks straight.

215
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and say, yeah, I'm going to go watch ET.

216
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I want to go watch Poltergeist or whatever, depending on whenever you grew up.

217
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And with the streamers and with everything being so accessible and so easy, everyone

218
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is just getting blitzed because what happens is so like a company like Netflix is directly

219
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at the money funnel.

220
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They're like sitting right at the top and they get all, they get this huge injection

221
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of money.

222
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They're a public company.

223
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Their share price goes up and they have all this money. And so there's no accountability. And they just start throwing $30, $50, $60, $100 billion at tons.

224
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Like they have – they could stop producing right now and they've got enough for like the next four or five years of just like constantly new stuff.

225
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And more and more is coming. So that's one problem.

226
00:19:17,571 --> 00:19:28,651
And because of that, it has drawn a lot of the talent that initially said – like when Netflix did their first TV series because obviously they used to be DVD by mail.

227
00:19:28,831 --> 00:19:31,871
It was – they went to Kevin Spacey and it was House of Cards, right?

228
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And that changed everything.

229
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And they even wanted Kevin Spacey, by the way, to run Netflix.

230
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People don't even know this.

231
00:19:37,591 --> 00:19:40,431
He was – because they were like, oh, wow, he's so creative.

232
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He had his own production company called Trigger Street Productions.

233
00:19:43,851 --> 00:19:51,231
Anyways, all these people from whatever, Spielberg, De Niro to whoever were like, what?

234
00:19:52,351 --> 00:19:54,171
People are going to go to the theaters for my movies.

235
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They're never going to go on a streamer.

236
00:19:55,851 --> 00:20:00,431
But they have thrown so much money at everybody that everyone has just gone over there.

237
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And now it's the new norm.

238
00:20:02,671 --> 00:20:04,031
And it's really due to inflation.

239
00:20:04,151 --> 00:20:09,571
I mean if we didn't have inflation and the dollar was more valuable, people would take the time to make the right movie.

240
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But everything has become disposable.

241
00:20:12,411 --> 00:20:13,131
That's the problem.

242
00:20:13,131 --> 00:20:21,031
And you see it on the TV side. Like that's really how the whole reality or what we call unscripted movement started.

243
00:20:21,351 --> 00:20:34,491
All of these things were so cheap and there was so much money and there was so much of it that they just became these disposable things, whether it was an afternoon dating show on MTV or yet another HGTV watching paint dry show.

244
00:20:34,491 --> 00:20:43,691
So when there's this much money rolling around in the system and the media is at the top funnel because the media has to help push the narrative that everyone wants.

245
00:20:43,691 --> 00:20:50,951
I mean I was very much in Hollywood when COVID hit, and I'm telling you, I get these mandates.

246
00:20:51,151 --> 00:20:53,151
So our agents send us monthly.

247
00:20:53,591 --> 00:20:55,031
I mean I could dial up any network.

248
00:20:55,151 --> 00:20:59,871
I get all these emails that says whatever, whether it's NBC or A&E or Showtime.

249
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This is what we're trying to push.

250
00:21:02,371 --> 00:21:03,771
This is what we're trying to say.

251
00:21:03,771 --> 00:21:10,531
and they want people like me producers to come in and pitch them shows that help push that narrative

252
00:21:10,531 --> 00:21:15,351
and if you do it and your show gets greenlit you know you get a pilot maybe they got picked up to

253
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series or if it's a movie you know you sell the movie and then you do that and that was all sort

254
00:21:20,851 --> 00:21:27,811
of on the tail end of the woke um movement as well so there was a lot of that you know and my

255
00:21:27,811 --> 00:21:32,711
and like my agents would even call me when i was already doing a show and they'd be like hey uh

256
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you're you're like Asian, aren't you? And I'm like, why does that matter? And they're like,

257
00:21:38,231 --> 00:21:43,011
well, you know, we're talking to NBC Business Legal and, you know, they have this affirmative

258
00:21:43,011 --> 00:21:47,571
action thing and they need to show that, you know, your crew has a certain percentage of

259
00:21:47,571 --> 00:21:54,471
ethnicity. And I'm like, well, I don't I mean, I'm I guess I'm half. But, you know, I'm not from

260
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Asia. My parents aren't from Asia. Like, yeah. So if that helps you. So it's just stuff like that.

261
00:21:58,451 --> 00:22:14,851
And I think the people in Hollywood even know, and most of them are – a lot of them are very hypocritical because if you talk to people one-on-one in Hollywood, most of them were all against that woke stuff.

262
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Most of them were against the council culture.

263
00:22:16,651 --> 00:22:25,631
Most of them were sort of like these – are these like hippie artist people that are into whatever and into free thought.

264
00:22:26,071 --> 00:22:35,791
But it's like they know that if they don't march to and carry the torch for what Hollywood is saying, they won't get hired because there's really only like five to seven places that hire you in Hollywood.

265
00:22:35,971 --> 00:22:37,631
That's the other big psyop.

266
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There's these seven places.

267
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That's it.

268
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And each place owns 30 things underneath them, but they're all just brands.

269
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It's like, oh, here's Viacom.

270
00:22:46,651 --> 00:22:49,751
Yeah, there's MTV, there's Spike, there's Comedy Central, there's Nickelodeon.

271
00:22:49,871 --> 00:23:09,322
There and it just like yeah but they all funnel back up into the same And now you got Warner Brothers and Discovery who have combined and combined I mean so if you want to be in Hollywood it kind of the opposite of why a lot of people became artists and wanted to be independent and free because they now just saying what are the mandates

272
00:23:09,762 --> 00:23:12,122
What are the boxes that I need to paint within?

273
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And if I do that, you'll pay me.

274
00:23:17,082 --> 00:23:18,462
Yeah, I don't know if I answered your question.

275
00:23:18,562 --> 00:23:19,302
I think I went on a tangent.

276
00:23:19,422 --> 00:23:19,742
Oh, yeah, totally.

277
00:23:19,742 --> 00:23:23,882
and i mean there's so many different angles you could look at i mean one of the ones you mentioned

278
00:23:23,882 --> 00:23:31,102
there is how you know these they care more about your ethnicity than what you're actually creating

279
00:23:31,102 --> 00:23:37,042
i think that like the award shows like the oscars it like requires that you have a certain amount of

280
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people of different races in the art which just doesn't even make it art anymore it's just

281
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it's so clearly become just an arm of the propaganda that they're trying to push and so

282
00:23:47,982 --> 00:23:52,622
there's no freedom of just artists coming in and creating something the way that they want to.

283
00:23:52,722 --> 00:23:54,202
Like you have to fit into this box.

284
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And like you said, you get a phone call from the agent that says,

285
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this is the message we need to spread.

286
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It's top down very clearly.

287
00:24:01,542 --> 00:24:01,762
Yes.

288
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And real art should be bottom up where people from the bottom just create things that flourish and move upward.

289
00:24:07,342 --> 00:24:09,862
And so it's very fiat in that sense.

290
00:24:09,862 --> 00:24:15,602
All these fiat things, we see the change of bottom up, the top down structure.

291
00:24:15,602 --> 00:24:44,082
Yeah, it distorts those signals, right? There's no free market of what do the people want, because the people are just being fed. And so you have to fit in that. And then it's also a lot of, oh, what was just really successful? Let's copy that. And so everything you do in Hollywood is, well, it's this meets this. Oh, yeah, well, this is The Matrix meets The Big Short. It's like, well, just make your own movie. It doesn't have to be this meets that.

292
00:24:44,082 --> 00:24:51,462
so and don't take a movie like snow white and just put a black person in it and say like this

293
00:24:51,462 --> 00:24:57,122
is a great new movie it doesn't work yeah that's the word i forget what year it was i i think it

294
00:24:57,122 --> 00:25:02,482
was right after covid there was one year where like practically every single movie that was up

295
00:25:02,482 --> 00:25:07,022
in every category in all of the oscars was just african-american it was just black unless you had

296
00:25:07,022 --> 00:25:11,342
a full black cast or black crew like you wouldn't and even within hollywood everyone was like yeah

297
00:25:11,342 --> 00:25:12,742
Well, we're not going to win this year.

298
00:25:12,802 --> 00:25:13,682
We're not going to be nominated this year.

299
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This is the black year.

300
00:25:15,302 --> 00:25:18,902
And it's like great if those are great films, but why are we segregating it?

301
00:25:19,022 --> 00:25:21,522
Like I thought that was the whole point to not segregate.

302
00:25:22,562 --> 00:25:23,222
I don't know.

303
00:25:23,682 --> 00:25:26,042
And then they call you racist for –

304
00:25:26,042 --> 00:25:26,262
Yeah.

305
00:25:26,602 --> 00:25:30,682
They're literally making rules like you have to be a certain race to win an award.

306
00:25:30,962 --> 00:25:31,182
Yeah.

307
00:25:31,722 --> 00:25:36,422
I mean like during COVID, I did this one show and we had – our lead was black.

308
00:25:36,982 --> 00:25:38,542
And we know she even admits.

309
00:25:38,542 --> 00:25:46,342
She's like, we got this show sold and we are now on the air and they are now pumping us as a show for discovery because I'm black.

310
00:25:46,842 --> 00:25:50,602
Now, she ended up – she's fantastic and she absolutely deserved it.

311
00:25:50,882 --> 00:25:56,162
But we also realized we were doing this whole thing because she was black, which isn't right.

312
00:25:56,242 --> 00:25:58,102
She should do it because she was amazing.

313
00:25:59,742 --> 00:26:01,882
Yeah, it doesn't feel good for that person either.

314
00:26:02,102 --> 00:26:04,942
Like I'm sure you didn't feel great when you're like, yeah, I'm half Asian.

315
00:26:05,122 --> 00:26:05,902
Yeah, okay, great.

316
00:26:05,902 --> 00:26:07,662
Why is this giving me a boost here?

317
00:26:07,662 --> 00:26:15,082
I should be getting rewarded for what I'm making and my merits, the meritocracy side of it.

318
00:26:15,502 --> 00:26:19,402
Yeah, exactly. Bring meritocracy back.

319
00:26:19,982 --> 00:26:23,122
So I'm sure this is something you think about a lot.

320
00:26:23,702 --> 00:26:31,802
How does the injection of Bitcoin and the Bitcoin standard and more of these people within the entertainment industry starting to adopt Bitcoin

321
00:26:31,802 --> 00:26:38,622
and more of the producers and actors and all of them actually getting on the sound money standard.

322
00:26:38,802 --> 00:26:41,162
How does this problem start getting fixed?

323
00:26:41,162 --> 00:26:51,482
What are the steps that you see ahead for the incentives to start to change back in a way that is going to make a better product for people to consume?

324
00:26:52,562 --> 00:26:55,402
Well, like a lot of people that come into Bitcoin, regardless of where they come into it,

325
00:26:55,462 --> 00:26:59,642
they start to come into it for number go up and looking at it as an asset.

326
00:26:59,642 --> 00:27:11,882
And fortunately – so there's two sides. So fortunately on the business side of Hollywood, people are starting to look at it just like the government looks at bit bonds or MicroStrategy looks at it on their balance sheet where it's like, oh, wait a minute.

327
00:27:12,242 --> 00:27:16,622
This could help blunt out the riskiness and the volatility of movies.

328
00:27:16,822 --> 00:27:19,382
Like movies just notoriously do not make money.

329
00:27:19,382 --> 00:27:33,942
But it's like, oh, what if you have a $10 million budget? What if instead of a $10 million budget for this movie, it's $11 million, and we put $1 million into the Bitcoin, and it just sits on Bitcoin, and you make the rest of it for the $10.

330
00:27:33,942 --> 00:27:42,902
And so because most movies take anywhere from like 7 to 15 years for full returns because you're selling to 180 countries, you have the royalties, the dividends.

331
00:27:43,282 --> 00:27:48,562
And you can do these things called ultimates where a company will buy you out for a haircut and bring everything forward.

332
00:27:48,882 --> 00:27:58,422
But with the Bitcoin on there, and we know how Bitcoin performs, if you're putting this out to a 10-year period, your $10 million movie could be a loser.

333
00:27:58,722 --> 00:28:01,322
But the Bitcoin will help bring it back up for your investors.

334
00:28:01,322 --> 00:28:09,862
So that's one thing that they're starting to look at because they're starting to see because everyone in Hollywood is very Wall Street-y and very trad-fy in the finance side.

335
00:28:10,362 --> 00:28:27,022
On the artisan side, the good thing is that they are such hardcore climate fighters and environmentalists and global warming fear.

336
00:28:27,022 --> 00:28:32,082
I don't know what the word is, and I don't even know what to call it anymore because you can already tell what side I sit on.

337
00:28:32,242 --> 00:28:40,042
But as they learn about Bitcoin mining and as I explain Bitcoin mining to them because they will yell at me like you're into Bitcoin.

338
00:28:40,282 --> 00:28:41,962
You're destroying the planet.

339
00:28:42,102 --> 00:28:43,022
You're melting everything.

340
00:28:43,662 --> 00:28:46,182
I'm just like, can I just give you some facts?

341
00:28:46,322 --> 00:28:48,242
Do you want to be honest and learn?

342
00:28:49,042 --> 00:28:50,462
And I've seen it.

343
00:28:50,462 --> 00:28:51,622
I've seen it click in their eyes.

344
00:28:51,702 --> 00:28:53,502
I've seen them just forwarding them articles.

345
00:28:53,502 --> 00:28:59,002
And even my own book, I have two whole chapters on environmentalism and how Bitcoin mining solves this.

346
00:28:59,122 --> 00:29:00,822
And they're like, oh, crap.

347
00:29:01,502 --> 00:29:02,222
This is pretty amazing.

348
00:29:02,302 --> 00:29:04,482
I'm like, yeah, this literally is the best tool we have.

349
00:29:05,182 --> 00:29:07,162
And a lot of them didn't even know about methane.

350
00:29:07,242 --> 00:29:11,082
They don't realize that there's something that's 84 times more pollutive and more warming than CO2.

351
00:29:11,182 --> 00:29:12,142
They're just focused on CO2.

352
00:29:12,222 --> 00:29:14,262
And I'm like, let's focus on methane, right?

353
00:29:14,302 --> 00:29:17,362
Just every landfill all over the world just emitting straight into the air.

354
00:29:17,502 --> 00:29:22,022
Like we can capture that and we can convert all that waste of energy into money, into Bitcoin.

355
00:29:22,902 --> 00:29:25,462
So the narratives are now getting out there.

356
00:29:25,522 --> 00:29:26,782
They're starting to permeate.

357
00:29:28,782 --> 00:29:34,182
Hollywood likes to gamble so that just like all of us coming in, they're all – a lot of them are distracted by crypto too.

358
00:29:34,922 --> 00:29:36,042
It's like you tell them about Bitcoin.

359
00:29:36,162 --> 00:29:37,242
They're like, hey, I just bought some Bitcoin.

360
00:29:37,322 --> 00:29:37,782
I'm like, great.

361
00:29:37,842 --> 00:29:39,742
They're like, yeah, I bought the XRP one.

362
00:29:40,262 --> 00:29:43,982
I'm like, no, that's not the – that's something completely different.

363
00:29:44,302 --> 00:29:49,202
And so I think it's just going to take time.

364
00:29:49,362 --> 00:29:51,982
Like a lot of us, they have to touch the stove I think and get burned.

365
00:29:52,022 --> 00:30:09,042
But I'm really hoping that the mining thing will help them because whether they're sincere or not, if they really do care about the environment, Bitcoin mining, as Daniel Batten and Troy Cross always say, really is the best tool that we have.

366
00:30:09,042 --> 00:30:17,362
And we can show them facts. We can show them data. And even the EPA, even the White House, these Cambridge studies, like it's just it's so obvious now.

367
00:30:17,402 --> 00:30:24,402
And I think we've mostly tackled a lot of the misinformation, you know, the things that Greenpeace started and, you know, Chris Larson of Ripple.

368
00:30:26,162 --> 00:30:29,242
But that's something I get excited about talking to Hollywood people about.

369
00:30:30,622 --> 00:30:34,682
Yeah, I love it. I have environmental stuff on my notes here, so we'll definitely get into that soon.

370
00:30:34,682 --> 00:30:40,382
um first before that though a question i have which i'm sure people may be wondering do you know

371
00:30:40,382 --> 00:30:45,982
any big name actors or hollywood names who are really into bitcoin that you'd be willing to share

372
00:30:45,982 --> 00:30:58,282
um so yeah i'm just trying to think if any of them have been out yet about that um

373
00:30:58,282 --> 00:31:11,102
yeah i don't know i don't know if what i should say because i i'm uh but just know this yes there

374
00:31:11,102 --> 00:31:17,882
are there are some there are some fairly big people that are in into uh bitcoin um

375
00:31:17,882 --> 00:31:23,902
Some of them are still into crypto, but yeah.

376
00:31:25,502 --> 00:31:26,162
You know what?

377
00:31:26,182 --> 00:31:35,282
I think it's the Tom Brady and the whole FTX thing, why they're hesitant and why I'm now reluctant to out them.

378
00:31:35,822 --> 00:31:36,982
I was just trying to think real quick.

379
00:31:37,062 --> 00:31:39,282
Have any of them said anything on Twitter but I haven't seen?

380
00:31:40,202 --> 00:31:46,422
There are some that are well-known but not as huge that have been talking about it.

381
00:31:46,422 --> 00:31:56,142
Like you see Alison Lohman who's on Twitter and she joins our spaces almost every day from Big Fish and Matchstick Man and dragging them to hell.

382
00:31:56,402 --> 00:31:57,662
So there's people like that.

383
00:31:59,042 --> 00:32:05,202
But the bigger people like Scarlett Johansson or Gerard Butler, I won't say if they have Bitcoin or not.

384
00:32:07,222 --> 00:32:11,002
One that I know that is open about is he's been to the conference.

385
00:32:11,162 --> 00:32:13,242
I actually got to meet him last year with TJ Miller.

386
00:32:13,642 --> 00:32:13,902
Oh, yeah.

387
00:32:13,902 --> 00:32:18,162
I know a lot of people love that like Silicon Valley show and he's been in a bunch of other shows.

388
00:32:18,382 --> 00:32:19,602
So he's a lot of the comics.

389
00:32:20,322 --> 00:32:22,522
Yeah, a lot of the comics have found it.

390
00:32:22,582 --> 00:32:24,642
And I was trying to theorize the other day why.

391
00:32:24,762 --> 00:32:30,202
And I think it's partly because they're somewhat modern day philosophers like to get their jokes and right.

392
00:32:30,282 --> 00:32:35,662
Like they really think about things and they think about, you know, the human condition.

393
00:32:36,322 --> 00:32:40,582
And if you really think it through, like you're going to come across Bitcoin at a certain point, right?

394
00:32:40,582 --> 00:32:49,122
and uh so i think that's why a lot of them them get it who who out there would you most like to

395
00:32:49,122 --> 00:32:53,262
orange pill in a hollywood scene if you could pick anyone that you think would have a really good

396
00:32:53,262 --> 00:32:58,262
chance to bring more attention to bitcoin who do you think is primed for and that you would like

397
00:32:58,262 --> 00:33:07,522
to orange pill uh you know i would love to orange pill um you know any of the studio heads because

398
00:33:07,522 --> 00:33:12,602
the minute that they can start to, in every single budget of every single movie and TV show,

399
00:33:12,702 --> 00:33:21,962
put Bitcoin in just 5%, 10%, we waste easily about 20% on frivolous junk. And four to 5% goes to a

400
00:33:21,962 --> 00:33:26,322
bond, another couple of percent to insurance and all these things that Bitcoin can really just take

401
00:33:26,322 --> 00:33:35,522
the place of. And so if you just put five to 10% in that and over the timeframe of how long it takes

402
00:33:35,522 --> 00:33:38,882
to get your money back, they would see Bitcoin as a promise.

403
00:33:38,962 --> 00:33:40,302
And then I think people would start to pay attention.

404
00:33:40,382 --> 00:33:41,462
I think that would really help.

405
00:33:42,082 --> 00:33:43,662
And it also becomes transparent.

406
00:33:44,022 --> 00:33:48,442
And then you can get into sort of nifty and creative ways

407
00:33:48,442 --> 00:33:49,782
where you incentivize the crew.

408
00:33:49,882 --> 00:33:52,182
Like my whole idea is that, you know,

409
00:33:52,222 --> 00:33:54,062
when you're dealing with 60 crew members

410
00:33:54,062 --> 00:33:58,262
and you're negotiating their fees and their salaries and everything,

411
00:33:58,342 --> 00:34:00,262
it's like, hey, I'll pay you this.

412
00:34:01,162 --> 00:34:02,722
How would you like to get paid in Bitcoin?

413
00:34:03,002 --> 00:34:04,542
Or how would you like, if your department,

414
00:34:04,542 --> 00:34:11,042
If you're the prop department or you're the art department, what if your department comes in under budget and we can reward you with a certain amount of Bitcoin?

415
00:34:11,622 --> 00:34:32,913
Or what if the apps become available where they can get paid in sats not just at the end of every two weeks or not even at the end of every day but literally every minute Because we don think about this but it like people should get paid as they working Like you should have a clock on your phone It like the sats are just rolling in because legally you have to get paid for working anyway

416
00:34:33,053 --> 00:34:33,733
So why not?

417
00:34:34,753 --> 00:34:36,293
Why are people having to wait?

418
00:34:36,533 --> 00:34:39,473
And, you know, because some of these people that are working paycheck to paycheck have

419
00:34:39,473 --> 00:34:40,353
these cash flow issues.

420
00:34:40,353 --> 00:34:43,493
And so then they're using their credit cards or getting these payday loans.

421
00:34:44,973 --> 00:34:51,233
Yeah, I can speak as I would consider myself in some sense an artist just creating podcasts.

422
00:34:51,253 --> 00:34:52,453
Like that's a form of art.

423
00:34:52,673 --> 00:35:03,553
And I wake up every morning and I see notifications filling up my phone of all the Nostra zaps people have sent me and the sats people send me through Fountain for appreciating my podcast.

424
00:35:04,393 --> 00:35:15,233
It's really – it changes the way that you think about this stuff and it gives you more motivation to create more because you're seeing that instant feedback through real money that people are sending you.

425
00:35:15,893 --> 00:35:18,553
And this is a really powerful tool.

426
00:35:18,553 --> 00:35:24,553
And like you said, I think that that's a really big part of it is just getting people plugged into just being paid in Bitcoin.

427
00:35:24,993 --> 00:35:40,013
It makes it so you can set up all sorts of cool formats where people can just get paid like by the minute or by the hour, by much more feedback-friendly intervals where people can really feel rewarded for what they're doing and earn real money.

428
00:35:40,673 --> 00:35:41,233
100%.

429
00:35:41,233 --> 00:35:47,353
Yeah, I think it changes the incentives because in Hollywood – I was telling someone else this the other day.

430
00:35:47,433 --> 00:35:54,633
It's like all of the departments are very sort of cordoned off, and they're almost in competition.

431
00:35:55,033 --> 00:36:00,613
And it's like the vanities, the hair and makeup are over here, and production designs over here, camera department.

432
00:36:00,953 --> 00:36:03,233
And they kind of don't care about the other departments.

433
00:36:03,353 --> 00:36:09,393
They want their department to look good, and they will ask for as much money as they can from the budget, and they will spend every penny.

434
00:36:09,393 --> 00:36:10,593
There's no incentive.

435
00:36:11,073 --> 00:36:13,993
This is why movies are so – there's zero incentive to save money.

436
00:36:14,213 --> 00:36:14,653
There's none.

437
00:36:15,533 --> 00:36:22,013
But if we could put it on a Bitcoin standard or incorporate Bitcoin and we incentivize them because they see what Bitcoin does and they want Bitcoin.

438
00:36:22,333 --> 00:36:33,373
Or like, hey, guys, if you come under – if your department works together on this or you work – I feel like, hey, this movie, there's this Bitcoin bounty, everybody, and we can all participate in this.

439
00:36:33,513 --> 00:36:34,873
But let's all work together.

440
00:36:36,693 --> 00:36:37,853
I feel like that would help.

441
00:36:37,893 --> 00:36:40,293
But again, like broken money, what's the incentive?

442
00:36:40,293 --> 00:36:41,493
Let's just spend it now, right?

443
00:36:41,593 --> 00:36:43,793
Why create when you can consume, right?

444
00:36:43,893 --> 00:36:45,433
Why save when you can spend?

445
00:36:46,593 --> 00:36:58,353
So that would – so yeah, so there isn't really one person I would want to orange peel, but it would be the studios because then everyone would pay attention because everyone in Hollywood, like it or not, they do whatever the studios say.

446
00:36:58,493 --> 00:37:01,253
The studios are their boss, and whatever they do is amazing.

447
00:37:01,593 --> 00:37:03,213
So let's follow their lead.

448
00:37:03,433 --> 00:37:06,553
Oh, they're putting Bitcoin on the budget now?

449
00:37:06,713 --> 00:37:07,053
Wow.

450
00:37:08,553 --> 00:37:08,993
Yeah.

451
00:37:08,993 --> 00:37:20,193
Yeah. It'll be interesting to see how that works because I'll keep this vague, but a lot of the people that run a lot of big parts of Hollywood are also the types of people that like to own the banks.

452
00:37:20,533 --> 00:37:22,393
And there's some connections up there at the top.

453
00:37:22,753 --> 00:37:23,073
Yeah.

454
00:37:23,233 --> 00:37:24,113
Going to leave it there.

455
00:37:24,293 --> 00:37:25,773
Yeah. I got you. I hear you.

456
00:37:26,393 --> 00:37:32,213
We'll see how quickly they decide to buy the sound money that gets rid of the banks.

457
00:37:32,693 --> 00:37:33,313
That's right.

458
00:37:33,313 --> 00:37:37,953
This is why I think that it may be a more bottom-up approach, but we shall see.

459
00:37:37,953 --> 00:37:43,373
it's I mean you never know it's very interesting we see lots of different pieces all over the place

460
00:37:43,373 --> 00:37:48,353
just finding bitcoin and deciding that you know they're going to jump onto the the escape hatch

461
00:37:48,353 --> 00:37:55,813
now because they see where fiat is going and you know all these different groups that we sort of

462
00:37:55,813 --> 00:38:01,093
have these stereotypes for thinking certain ways they will start to fracture as the system continues

463
00:38:01,093 --> 00:38:04,673
to fall apart and people just want to save themselves because that's that's right nature

464
00:38:04,673 --> 00:38:07,753
So it'll be very interesting to watch, that is for sure.

465
00:38:08,633 --> 00:38:16,373
And so going on this theme of how everything is monetized right now, there's just money flying all over the place.

466
00:38:16,593 --> 00:38:19,473
And it's all just easy money being printed money.

467
00:38:20,613 --> 00:38:25,033
Another place that this is very relevant, which you also have experience in, as you mentioned, is real estate.

468
00:38:25,213 --> 00:38:29,873
So I'd love to jump over to that because I think this is another great connection.

469
00:38:29,873 --> 00:38:34,833
After this, we'll talk about the environment, but this is a way to really talk to these people.

470
00:38:35,033 --> 00:38:41,133
As someone who grew up on the West Coast, I grew up in the Seattle area.

471
00:38:41,433 --> 00:38:48,553
So this is the type of thing that a lot of people that I know and you know down in California as well is very close to young people's hearts.

472
00:38:48,733 --> 00:38:52,733
The people who are trying to connect with is that it's freaking impossible to own a home.

473
00:38:53,713 --> 00:38:53,833
Yes.

474
00:38:54,653 --> 00:38:56,933
Basically, everyone has become permanent renters.

475
00:38:56,933 --> 00:38:59,773
Which is a problem in Hollywood, by the way, which we can also talk about.

476
00:38:59,873 --> 00:39:00,413
What's that?

477
00:39:00,673 --> 00:39:03,033
Which is also a problem in Hollywood, which we could talk about.

478
00:39:03,353 --> 00:39:05,093
Yeah, I mean why don't we start with that?

479
00:39:05,153 --> 00:39:14,333
You can sort of explain how it works, and then we can shift into why fiat is the problem for such high real estate prices and then how Bitcoin fixes this.

480
00:39:14,633 --> 00:39:22,413
Well, so going back to the fact that no one in Hollywood, except for studio people, all the artisans, they don't have W-2s.

481
00:39:22,433 --> 00:39:23,313
It's not a regular job.

482
00:39:23,373 --> 00:39:24,273
There's no job security.

483
00:39:24,793 --> 00:39:27,253
So because of that, they cannot get home mortgages.

484
00:39:27,253 --> 00:39:31,413
and there's all kinds of people in Hollywood that are making half a million, million dollars a year.

485
00:39:31,853 --> 00:39:37,733
They can't get a home because a mortgage is a loan on your future income, not your assets.

486
00:39:37,733 --> 00:39:40,933
They could care less what your assets are.

487
00:39:41,273 --> 00:39:46,073
It's like what – and I learned this because I wanted a home when I wanted to get my first home.

488
00:39:46,353 --> 00:39:49,293
And I was like making all these movies at a five-picture deal at Lionsgate.

489
00:39:49,393 --> 00:39:54,073
I was pumping out these teen comedies, and they're like, yeah, but what if your movie fails?

490
00:39:54,253 --> 00:39:55,953
What if Lionsgate says we don't want to make any more?

491
00:39:55,953 --> 00:40:20,293
So I formed my own mortgage company and I became a broker. I got three licenses in real estate and I was never a realtor. I never wanted to sell or buy homes for other people. I just wanted to get my own mortgage. So I wanted to hack the system. I wanted to figure out what is it. And I realized I just had to change the narrative for the banks on how I make money. And I sort of formed my own W-2, so to speak.

492
00:40:20,293 --> 00:40:26,073
So I formed that company and I became – I still am the Hollywood go-to for mortgages.

493
00:40:26,573 --> 00:40:28,673
Like that is one of my fiat businesses.

494
00:40:28,913 --> 00:40:31,673
I've owned it, run it now for, I don't know, 15 years.

495
00:40:32,433 --> 00:40:38,893
And all kinds of people in Hollywood, very well-known people, people you know, they come because they're like, hey, I just talked to Wells Fargo.

496
00:40:38,953 --> 00:40:39,653
I talked to Chase.

497
00:40:39,913 --> 00:40:40,993
They all said no.

498
00:40:41,253 --> 00:40:41,673
It's like, great.

499
00:40:41,753 --> 00:40:43,113
I'm going to take care of you.

500
00:40:45,973 --> 00:40:48,613
So anyways, that's kind of – that's what got me into real estate.

501
00:40:48,613 --> 00:40:55,173
I became a mortgage broker when I was trying to get my first home, which I could not afford per the bank.

502
00:40:55,453 --> 00:41:00,213
Yet I could have just bought it outright, but they didn't – but I wanted to have a cheap mortgage.

503
00:41:01,053 --> 00:41:06,713
So yeah, so switching to real estate, I think even more than Hollywood.

504
00:41:06,833 --> 00:41:13,653
I think this is the huge play as far as adoption is concerned because like I never owned gold.

505
00:41:13,953 --> 00:41:15,113
I don't – my family doesn't own gold.

506
00:41:15,193 --> 00:41:16,593
I don't have any friends that own gold.

507
00:41:16,593 --> 00:41:24,353
I think less than 2% or 3% of Gen Z and millennials own gold, and mostly it's something that's passed down as heirloom from the grandmas.

508
00:41:25,133 --> 00:41:26,893
But I understood real estate.

509
00:41:27,093 --> 00:41:27,573
I get it.

510
00:41:27,633 --> 00:41:28,073
It's tangible.

511
00:41:28,213 --> 00:41:29,113
We all have to live in it.

512
00:41:29,253 --> 00:41:31,153
So it was the digital real estate.

513
00:41:31,293 --> 00:41:37,553
It was real estate in cyberspace that made sense to me, not the digital gold part when I was trying to understand Bitcoin.

514
00:41:37,553 --> 00:42:04,733
So that part, I was like, oh, digital space, scarce property, like owning land. And there's only so much of it, right? There's 21 million plots. It's like, okay, that made sense to me. And the denominator never changes. So I will always own that amount of land. Whereas with regular real estate, right, everything deteriorates and they can make more and they can just keep building straight up. That's what hit me. And I think that is starting to click for real estate people.

515
00:42:04,733 --> 00:42:08,913
So because I was deep into real estate, I had an Airbnb business.

516
00:42:09,293 --> 00:42:14,473
I've flipped 20 homes, part of a ton of commercial real estate, shopping centers, whatever.

517
00:42:15,073 --> 00:42:18,313
And I'm still stuck in some of those because some of those are partnerships.

518
00:42:18,313 --> 00:42:22,433
But the ones that I was in all by myself, I've sold out and all went to Bitcoin, all of it.

519
00:42:23,093 --> 00:42:33,453
And so I go to these real estate meetups, these real estate – like we think that the Bitcoin conventions and things are crazy and all this.

520
00:42:33,453 --> 00:42:38,573
It's like it's just a tiny crumb compared to the real estate world that does these things.

521
00:42:38,973 --> 00:42:49,653
And so I go to those and I talk to these people, to these real estate developers or mostly investors, and I say, why are you into real estate?

522
00:42:49,753 --> 00:42:50,853
What is it about real estate?

523
00:42:51,313 --> 00:42:52,893
And here's the thing, Ben.

524
00:42:52,973 --> 00:43:00,793
It's like if most real estate investors – and first of all, I'm going to separate the people that want to own their own home for their own home.

525
00:43:00,793 --> 00:43:15,173
I can argue why that's still a bad deal and it's better to rent, but just set that aside and say, okay, someone wants to own their own home. It's not all about money. Fine. I'm talking about all the real estate investors, the people that want income property, that passive income, that mailbox money, make money while you sleep.

526
00:43:16,293 --> 00:43:23,773
There's a huge side hustle culture there. I mean it's all over the internet, all these courses late at night. There's a gazillion people trying to do that.

527
00:43:23,773 --> 00:43:32,393
But if you talk to all of them, the only reason that they're in the real estate is like they like what it says about them.

528
00:43:32,493 --> 00:43:34,033
They feel like they're being responsible.

529
00:43:34,153 --> 00:43:34,813
They feel like they're being smart.

530
00:43:34,893 --> 00:43:40,113
They want to be able to say, oh, yeah, I have this townhome over in Nashville or, yeah, I have a loft over in Austin.

531
00:43:41,193 --> 00:43:42,773
I have a home in Palm Springs, wherever.

532
00:43:43,733 --> 00:43:50,153
But if they're doing what you're supposed to do in real estate and they're being a good investor, it's either rented out.

533
00:43:50,273 --> 00:43:50,733
It's Airbnb.

534
00:43:51,093 --> 00:43:52,453
They don't even get to use it.

535
00:43:52,453 --> 00:44:11,173
It's really just on a balance sheet. And so I ask real estate people to be honest with themselves that you just like the flex. You like the brag that you own real estate because all you care about is what the real estate can get you.

536
00:44:11,173 --> 00:44:13,313
And if you're a good investor, you need to flip it in three years.

537
00:44:13,353 --> 00:44:14,293
You need to flip it in five years.

538
00:44:14,333 --> 00:44:15,013
You need to exit.

539
00:44:15,133 --> 00:44:15,773
You need to sell.

540
00:44:15,973 --> 00:44:17,693
It's just a bunch of boards and nails.

541
00:44:18,893 --> 00:44:22,753
It's there's, you know, it's like people are like, well, you know, Bitcoin's not tangible.

542
00:44:22,873 --> 00:44:23,473
Real estate's tangible.

543
00:44:23,473 --> 00:44:34,913
But yeah, but if you're an investor, there's no tangibility to the real estate until something bad happens, until the sewer is full or until everything gets backed up and until the roof needs replacing.

544
00:44:35,033 --> 00:44:35,853
That's when it's tangible.

545
00:44:35,853 --> 00:44:56,733
But again, you're hiring people to do that and you're just looking at a balance sheet online. It's just the money. And so it's just a lot of work. So I guess this is my rambling way of saying that the majority of people that go into real estate investing don't have any reason to really be there.

546
00:44:56,733 --> 00:44:59,393
They don't really have the expertise or the knowledge.

547
00:44:59,393 --> 00:45:07,073
They're following some course or some book they read, and it's a huge amount of risk, a ton of liability.

548
00:45:07,613 --> 00:45:13,213
Just to get what they're sold as cash flow, they have to put up a ton of money, right?

549
00:45:13,273 --> 00:45:17,473
The cash flow will take a decade just to even equal the amount of money that they're putting up.

550
00:45:17,793 --> 00:45:20,853
And then the cash flow is just a rebrand of appreciation.

551
00:45:21,273 --> 00:45:28,533
Well, are you telling me that if you have another asset that's appreciating 5 to 10x your cash flow, you couldn't just peel off some of that?

552
00:45:28,533 --> 00:45:34,253
And by the way, when you peel off Bitcoin, it's capital gains taxes, which is so much smaller than income taxes.

553
00:45:34,413 --> 00:45:36,393
Cash flow on real estate is income taxes.

554
00:45:37,113 --> 00:45:41,133
And also cash flow, guess what the first thing is that stops when you have problems in real estate?

555
00:45:41,813 --> 00:45:42,613
It's cash flow.

556
00:45:42,713 --> 00:45:44,393
Cash flow stops all the time.

557
00:45:44,393 --> 00:45:54,973
I have so many commercial real estate properties right now that have completely stopped because of interest rates going up and other…

558
00:45:55,004 --> 00:45:59,144
having to refi and like, I'm not even getting cashflow. The only reason I was in some of these

559
00:45:59,144 --> 00:46:04,844
passive things is for the cashflow. Well, there is no cashflow now. It's zeroed out. And some of

560
00:46:04,844 --> 00:46:10,224
them, there's now new capital calls. I have another project in Florida where I'm only going to get

561
00:46:10,224 --> 00:46:16,084
half what I even put in and I'm not even getting cashflow. So I'm losing. And it makes me ill just

562
00:46:16,084 --> 00:46:19,804
to think about how to just put that into Bitcoin. And I even knew about Bitcoin at the time,

563
00:46:19,864 --> 00:46:23,264
but I wasn't like a hundred percent Bitcoin then, you know, I was still part of that whole

564
00:46:23,264 --> 00:46:30,084
diversification, worsification thing. And so if you break it down, if you break down the real

565
00:46:30,084 --> 00:46:33,424
estate bros, if you break it down, you say, why do you want real estate? What are you hoping to get

566
00:46:33,424 --> 00:46:37,864
out of this? What you like? They don't really need the real estate. They just want the money.

567
00:46:37,944 --> 00:46:42,204
They want to hurdle inflation. And obviously this is just a trade. It's an investment. It's

568
00:46:42,204 --> 00:46:50,984
risk for them to do that. So I think a lot of them, if again, if they're honest, will open their

569
00:46:50,984 --> 00:46:58,324
eyes and say, oh, there's a better way for me to do this where it can be peaceful with less risk

570
00:46:58,324 --> 00:47:03,864
and less liability. And it's called Bitcoin. And I just have to get over the fact that,

571
00:47:03,944 --> 00:47:08,924
you know, if mom and dad say, oh, hey, are you being smart? And did you invest in that fourplex?

572
00:47:09,004 --> 00:47:14,224
It's like, no, I bought Bitcoin. So I get it. Mom and dad don't know. So that sounds crazy. Oh my

573
00:47:14,224 --> 00:47:17,884
God, what are you doing? Right. We just tried to help you out. We gave you a little bit of money

574
00:47:17,884 --> 00:47:23,004
you put into Bitcoin. But it's like, yeah, it's property. And it's ultimately scarce,

575
00:47:23,244 --> 00:47:28,624
finite property that's incorruptible and immortal and all the things that we know about Bitcoin.

576
00:47:29,804 --> 00:47:36,904
So if they could start to see that, if they could real, if so if real estate people can realize that

577
00:47:36,904 --> 00:47:43,924
cashflow is just appreciation in a different form and there's appreciation with Bitcoin. So

578
00:47:43,924 --> 00:47:47,584
you can make your own cashflow. You set your own schedule and you can have cashflow.

579
00:47:47,884 --> 00:47:52,564
I think they would help understand it because that's the biggest thing they say.

580
00:47:53,104 --> 00:47:54,844
And then they say, well, you can live in real estate.

581
00:47:54,944 --> 00:47:58,364
Yes, but I'm talking about all the income and investment properties, which no one lives in.

582
00:47:58,624 --> 00:48:02,524
I've owned all these great properties that I look back and I'm like, man, these are so amazing.

583
00:48:02,624 --> 00:48:03,764
I didn't spend one night in them.

584
00:48:04,124 --> 00:48:05,684
I couldn't because I had tenants.

585
00:48:07,024 --> 00:48:10,284
I had a place right next to Bitcoin Commons in Austin.

586
00:48:10,284 --> 00:48:14,824
I had a place right next to Bitcoin Park, like four houses over from Bitcoin Park in Nashville.

587
00:48:14,824 --> 00:48:19,064
I wish I kept those now just because of the Bitcoin aspect.

588
00:48:19,324 --> 00:48:22,624
But no, I've done way better by selling those.

589
00:48:23,944 --> 00:48:25,404
And by the way, it was all during COVID.

590
00:48:25,724 --> 00:48:28,824
COVID opened up my eyes and also because a lot of these were Airbnbs.

591
00:48:29,584 --> 00:48:32,224
And Airbnb, the company – well, not the company.

592
00:48:32,344 --> 00:48:34,424
I say the jurisdictions and where these were turned them off.

593
00:48:34,484 --> 00:48:37,684
Like you're not allowed to have people in there because of COVID, right?

594
00:48:37,984 --> 00:48:40,024
The germs are going to linger in the house.

595
00:48:40,324 --> 00:48:43,144
I was like, oh my gosh, these can't just sit there and burn.

596
00:48:43,224 --> 00:48:43,904
So screw this.

597
00:48:43,904 --> 00:48:58,704
And so I sold them all. So I think real estate people can start to can see Bitcoin as property without friction, you know, borderless, without the jurisdictional risk.

598
00:48:58,884 --> 00:49:02,584
You know, no airport is going to go in across the street. No school is going to be built.

599
00:49:02,804 --> 00:49:08,504
You know, you don't have the noisy neighbor. You don't have the dog. You don't have the tenants, the toilets, the trash, the taxes.

600
00:49:09,104 --> 00:49:13,064
And the taxes you have are only when you sell. You know, that's the whole thing.

601
00:49:13,064 --> 00:49:18,044
And we know this, all Bitcoiners get this, but why are you paying property taxes?

602
00:49:18,044 --> 00:49:21,164
Even if you pay all cash, there's no leverage at all.

603
00:49:21,424 --> 00:49:22,664
Pay all cash for your house.

604
00:49:22,864 --> 00:49:24,064
Why are you paying property taxes?

605
00:49:24,624 --> 00:49:25,044
Well, guess what?

606
00:49:25,084 --> 00:49:25,804
That's just rent.

607
00:49:25,924 --> 00:49:27,784
But your landlord is the county.

608
00:49:28,424 --> 00:49:30,664
My landlord right here is Los Angeles County.

609
00:49:31,484 --> 00:49:35,624
It's like if I, you know, in the amount I'm paying in property taxes is the same as most

610
00:49:35,624 --> 00:49:36,244
people's rent.

611
00:49:36,764 --> 00:49:39,324
And that's not counting all of the maintenance.

612
00:49:39,524 --> 00:49:40,644
And it's deteriorating.

613
00:49:40,644 --> 00:49:45,744
How weird is it that we're investing in something that deteriorates?

614
00:49:46,144 --> 00:49:54,604
So I'm going to store my money in this thing that I have to monthly and yearly be maintaining just to keep what it's at.

615
00:49:55,624 --> 00:50:03,084
I feel like real estate investing was originally supposed to be real estate living, and we turned it into real estate investing because we haven't had choices.

616
00:50:04,464 --> 00:50:06,204
And now people will say the same about Bitcoin.

617
00:50:06,324 --> 00:50:08,464
They're like, well, people are going to drive up the price of Bitcoin.

618
00:50:08,464 --> 00:50:11,424
And they're just going to use that to save like, yeah, but that's the point.

619
00:50:11,484 --> 00:50:13,204
It doesn't take anything away from anybody else.

620
00:50:13,384 --> 00:50:14,364
What does it take away?

621
00:50:14,504 --> 00:50:15,104
It takes nothing.

622
00:50:15,504 --> 00:50:17,124
And that's why there's no utility.

623
00:50:17,844 --> 00:50:19,104
It's like, oh, yeah, there's no utility in Bitcoin.

624
00:50:19,284 --> 00:50:20,944
Yes, that's the best utility.

625
00:50:21,464 --> 00:50:22,844
There is no utility, right?

626
00:50:22,884 --> 00:50:23,444
You get it.

627
00:50:23,804 --> 00:50:25,624
It's, oh, my gosh, it's money.

628
00:50:25,624 --> 00:50:26,224
It's a good thing.

629
00:50:26,324 --> 00:50:29,984
It gives you clearer signal because this is another thing that the gold people use.

630
00:50:30,064 --> 00:50:35,024
Oh, gold is better because it's also used for electronics and jewelry and all these other things.

631
00:50:35,024 --> 00:50:41,764
But that actually creates noise in the system. It makes it less good of a measuring stick as money.

632
00:50:42,324 --> 00:50:46,304
That's right because it's measuring something else. There's a contaminant in it as money.

633
00:50:47,584 --> 00:50:55,844
Yeah. So, I mean, even before I was fully into Bitcoin, I wrote this article called Don't Buy Your House.

634
00:50:55,844 --> 00:51:04,624
And the whole thesis was that even for your own house, and I ran through all the numbers, it is smarter to rent than buy.

635
00:51:04,624 --> 00:51:07,924
And I laid out exactly why, you know, you put up your security deposit.

636
00:51:08,044 --> 00:51:10,584
The security deposit is the only recourse that the landlord has.

637
00:51:10,604 --> 00:51:11,824
And I know this being a landlord.

638
00:51:12,284 --> 00:51:14,784
So the people are like, yeah, well, I want to paint the walls.

639
00:51:14,864 --> 00:51:16,164
I want to put in hardwood floors.

640
00:51:16,204 --> 00:51:17,144
I want to change the sink.

641
00:51:17,584 --> 00:51:18,144
Guess what?

642
00:51:18,164 --> 00:51:18,784
You could do that.

643
00:51:19,024 --> 00:51:22,504
When I rented my first place after college, I did that.

644
00:51:22,544 --> 00:51:23,444
And that's what started up my eyes.

645
00:51:23,484 --> 00:51:24,744
I'm like, I don't like this toilet.

646
00:51:25,144 --> 00:51:27,024
I want to concrete this countertop.

647
00:51:27,064 --> 00:51:28,464
Like I concreted this wall behind me.

648
00:51:28,604 --> 00:51:30,224
Like I want to, you know, I want to.

649
00:51:30,564 --> 00:51:31,284
And guess what?

650
00:51:31,284 --> 00:51:36,404
Most of the time, my landlords either reduced my rent or they came in and looked at the place and said, thank you.

651
00:51:36,444 --> 00:51:38,044
You just improved my property.

652
00:51:39,264 --> 00:51:40,424
Also, there's freedom.

653
00:51:40,624 --> 00:51:42,304
You can move whenever you want to.

654
00:51:42,504 --> 00:51:55,464
I mean, anyways, we don't have to get into that, but it's like I could go deep down a rabbit hole of explaining to people how it's just better to rent in general when it comes to real estate.

655
00:51:55,464 --> 00:51:57,284
And it could still be your house.

656
00:51:57,284 --> 00:52:04,604
If you're worried, you can pay three, four years of rent up front, which will still be way less than a down payment on a house.

657
00:52:05,884 --> 00:52:08,404
So you get chained.

658
00:52:08,744 --> 00:52:11,284
You're stuck geographically.

659
00:52:11,764 --> 00:52:12,464
You're stuck.

660
00:52:12,704 --> 00:52:14,824
You don't know what neighbors are going to move in next door.

661
00:52:15,004 --> 00:52:15,804
You just can't move.

662
00:52:16,724 --> 00:52:22,044
So I happen to own this house because I bought it before Bitcoin, and I wish I didn't.

663
00:52:22,044 --> 00:52:26,924
There's people near me that are renting the exact same house for way less than I'm spending.

664
00:52:27,644 --> 00:52:33,724
So I bought this house, which was the equivalent of 1,818 Bitcoin when I bought it.

665
00:52:35,084 --> 00:52:37,364
Today, it's worth 17 Bitcoin.

666
00:52:38,604 --> 00:52:39,084
17.

667
00:52:39,864 --> 00:52:40,704
And you know this, Ben?

668
00:52:40,844 --> 00:52:43,224
In about five, six years, it's only going to be worth about two.

669
00:52:44,344 --> 00:52:44,824
Yep.

670
00:52:45,284 --> 00:52:47,864
Now, I didn't spend 1,818 Bitcoin because I didn't have it then.

671
00:52:47,864 --> 00:52:52,424
money that doesn't deteriorate, you start realizing like, oh, this is actually, you know,

672
00:52:52,464 --> 00:52:58,344
things are when you just have to change your denominator and you start seeing everything

673
00:52:58,344 --> 00:53:03,524
in a different light. And everyone in Bitcoin seen that meme of the shopping cart over time.

674
00:53:03,524 --> 00:53:07,864
If you're saving in fiat money, which is getting smaller and smaller, you're able to buy less stuff

675
00:53:07,864 --> 00:53:12,164
with it. Oh yeah. The shopping cart, if you're saving a Bitcoin, the same amount of money,

676
00:53:12,164 --> 00:53:15,004
it turns into a Ferrari after a few years.

677
00:53:15,924 --> 00:53:18,024
You're able to buy more stuff

678
00:53:18,024 --> 00:53:20,084
when you're not holding a money that's melting.

679
00:53:21,024 --> 00:53:22,224
It's like that Home Alone meme

680
00:53:22,224 --> 00:53:25,344
where the kid who got the groceries in Home Alone

681
00:53:25,344 --> 00:53:27,384
and it's like, I forget,

682
00:53:27,504 --> 00:53:28,624
but he paid like 50 bucks

683
00:53:28,624 --> 00:53:29,884
and had all these things back then.

684
00:53:30,044 --> 00:53:31,564
And today it's like, oh, that's $350.

685
00:53:33,884 --> 00:53:34,784
Yeah, it's crazy.

686
00:53:34,984 --> 00:53:37,204
And people are starting to wake up

687
00:53:37,204 --> 00:53:38,284
to all this inflation stuff

688
00:53:38,284 --> 00:53:39,924
and how it's stealing from them.

689
00:53:39,924 --> 00:54:05,304
Well, no one understands inflation. That's the other thing. In the fiat world, they think they do, but we get it. And I didn't. Again, going through all the business school, I thought inflation was just prices increasing. And again, I'm just – business school, you look at the symptoms. You don't look at the problem. And that was a big wake-up call for me. It's like, holy crap. We were just looking at the problems and then – yeah.

690
00:54:05,724 --> 00:54:07,744
And you're told like this is just the way it is.

691
00:54:07,964 --> 00:54:08,624
This is the way it is.

692
00:54:08,624 --> 00:54:10,704
2% inflation, that's just the way it is.

693
00:54:10,724 --> 00:54:12,184
That's their target because it is.

694
00:54:12,764 --> 00:54:12,964
Yeah.

695
00:54:14,144 --> 00:54:14,844
Yeah, exactly.

696
00:54:15,084 --> 00:54:15,944
Yeah, no one has a reason.

697
00:54:16,724 --> 00:54:20,204
No one explains why they are stealing a certain amount from you.

698
00:54:20,264 --> 00:54:21,424
That's just how it is.

699
00:54:21,504 --> 00:54:23,004
And no more questions.

700
00:54:23,584 --> 00:54:25,924
And Bitcoiners ask questions about everything.

701
00:54:25,924 --> 00:54:31,364
And they say, how about 0% theft from me every year for money printing?

702
00:54:31,764 --> 00:54:33,044
That sounds better, doesn't it?

703
00:54:33,404 --> 00:54:34,244
It does sound better.

704
00:54:34,384 --> 00:54:34,544
Yeah.

705
00:54:34,604 --> 00:54:35,424
What's not to like?

706
00:54:35,424 --> 00:54:47,624
And they make up all these things about how deflation would be so scary and bad, but really it's just things getting cheaper over time, which would be much better for everybody.

707
00:54:48,104 --> 00:54:50,384
Yeah, which is naturally how it is supposed to be.

708
00:54:50,484 --> 00:54:52,464
We just don't realize that we've been programmed.

709
00:54:52,464 --> 00:55:04,144
Yeah. And for the people who heard you go on an excellent, you know, rant about the real estate from the investor side and the more like managerial side, how, you know.

710
00:55:05,284 --> 00:55:13,504
It just doesn't isn't very efficient as a money storing vehicle, even though it's kind of the best there is right now or the best there was for a while.

711
00:55:13,504 --> 00:55:19,804
I should say. People who just want to go and buy a house should care about this and listen because

712
00:55:19,804 --> 00:55:24,204
this is what all the big money folks are thinking about as well because they have also

713
00:55:24,204 --> 00:55:30,224
bought up tons of housing. Everyone ever heard about BlackRock just buying entire neighborhoods

714
00:55:30,224 --> 00:55:36,644
of houses because they don't want to hold their wealth in fiat because they know it's going down

715
00:55:36,644 --> 00:55:41,404
in value. So this is causing these big money folks to just flood the real estate market,

716
00:55:41,404 --> 00:55:48,644
which jacks all the prices up yeah so once they realize there's a better monetary solution out

717
00:55:48,644 --> 00:55:53,424
there that will store their value without them needing to deal with all these expenses and

718
00:55:53,424 --> 00:55:58,464
cleaning toilets and tenants and and you know property managers all these different pieces

719
00:55:58,464 --> 00:56:04,444
as you've seen yourself they're gonna they're gonna leave and go to that one and so we're

720
00:56:04,444 --> 00:56:09,364
talking about bitcoin is just a better it's a better store of value than real estate in every

721
00:56:09,364 --> 00:56:16,204
single way. And so once they all leave the real estate market, those prices will, in theory,

722
00:56:16,744 --> 00:56:35,411
drop potentially massively Is that sort of what you foresee Because I know there some controversy out there around what is going to happen once all the real estate investors realize Bitcoin is a better store of value and leave the real estate market into Bitcoin

723
00:56:35,571 --> 00:56:36,571
What's actually going to happen?

724
00:56:37,231 --> 00:56:42,151
Is this going to be like a wonderful event where all the houses drop?

725
00:56:42,311 --> 00:56:45,371
Well, wonderful for the people that aren't owning houses, I should say.

726
00:56:45,611 --> 00:56:45,871
Yeah.

727
00:56:45,871 --> 00:56:54,331
It's going to be terrible for the people who stay owning real estate but potentially wonderful for all the Gen Z millennials out there who can finally afford a house.

728
00:56:54,431 --> 00:56:55,711
What do you see happening there?

729
00:56:55,711 --> 00:57:02,911
I think unfortunately real estate is going to continue to go up because it really just follows inflation, right?

730
00:57:02,971 --> 00:57:04,511
It's like it's really going to do that.

731
00:57:04,511 --> 00:57:16,071
But where it starts to peel off from inflation and even have a premium on top of inflation, I think that's going to come closer down to inflation because those people will be storing in Bitcoin.

732
00:57:16,291 --> 00:57:19,511
I mean it's going to have to be a significant move to do that, but every little bit counts.

733
00:57:20,511 --> 00:57:32,551
Every house that – like every house that I will go out and look at and there's three other people coming to buy it, like two of those three are from a company.

734
00:57:32,551 --> 00:57:33,891
They're from a flipping company.

735
00:57:34,511 --> 00:57:39,371
And those companies start to go away when they realize they can do better simply investing in Bitcoin.

736
00:57:40,651 --> 00:57:45,471
And so then you have one person left you're competing with, and of course the price – it keeps the prices down.

737
00:57:47,271 --> 00:57:54,771
So real estate will still always, outside of Bitcoin, I think, be the best store of value nominally.

738
00:57:55,151 --> 00:57:58,291
The problem is the amount of work you have to do to get there.

739
00:57:58,551 --> 00:58:02,311
I mean I tell some people who aren't real estate pros or they're like, oh, should I be getting real estate?

740
00:58:02,311 --> 00:58:10,611
I'm like, just go get another fiat job or just work longer at your job because if that's what you like and that's what you do, it's going to be the same.

741
00:58:11,891 --> 00:58:17,431
So I hope that that does wake people up.

742
00:58:17,531 --> 00:58:27,891
I mean so getting back to like the Hollywood of it all, when you tell people that part about real estate because a lot of the Hollywood people that have done well and will have these like $20 million places in the Hollywood Hills.

743
00:58:27,891 --> 00:58:30,191
or I was talking to a friend of mine the other day.

744
00:58:30,251 --> 00:58:33,071
She has a $15 million place over in the Malibu Hills.

745
00:58:33,971 --> 00:58:36,851
And you tell them this thing about pricing out people

746
00:58:36,851 --> 00:58:38,331
that just need a place to live

747
00:58:38,331 --> 00:58:39,751
because you're storing all this.

748
00:58:40,631 --> 00:58:41,831
It's just like the environmental thing.

749
00:58:41,891 --> 00:58:43,231
They're like, oh shit.

750
00:58:43,331 --> 00:58:45,771
Like suddenly I'm like, I'm not trying to make you feel bad.

751
00:58:45,871 --> 00:58:46,711
You didn't know.

752
00:58:46,831 --> 00:58:47,651
I didn't know.

753
00:58:47,651 --> 00:58:50,611
But this is what you're doing to the very people

754
00:58:50,611 --> 00:58:53,851
that you march around on the red carpet,

755
00:58:54,031 --> 00:58:55,351
tell people you're trying to help.

756
00:58:55,651 --> 00:58:57,011
I want to help families.

757
00:58:57,011 --> 00:58:59,171
I want affordable housing.

758
00:58:59,691 --> 00:58:59,971
Okay.

759
00:59:00,631 --> 00:59:02,711
So what's the tool that you can do?

760
00:59:02,871 --> 00:59:04,451
You want to help the environment?

761
00:59:04,531 --> 00:59:05,231
You want the environment?

762
00:59:05,351 --> 00:59:06,591
You want the world to be a better place?

763
00:59:06,651 --> 00:59:07,731
You want to make affordable housing?

764
00:59:07,891 --> 00:59:11,631
There's one simple tool for you to do that with and you can do it.

765
00:59:11,951 --> 00:59:13,311
It's because we haven't had that, right?

766
00:59:13,351 --> 00:59:16,151
Like you watch these like all these, what do you call them?

767
00:59:16,651 --> 00:59:18,171
What were these women's pageants?

768
00:59:18,271 --> 00:59:19,411
Miss Americas and whatever, right?

769
00:59:19,451 --> 00:59:21,911
And it's like, oh, hi, I just want to make the world a better place.

770
00:59:22,191 --> 00:59:22,411
Great.

771
00:59:22,471 --> 00:59:23,151
What are you going to do?

772
00:59:23,471 --> 00:59:24,371
It's nice to say that.

773
00:59:24,371 --> 00:59:26,351
But now we actually have something.

774
00:59:27,011 --> 00:59:32,151
Um, yeah, I don't know. I get passionate as you could tell.

775
00:59:32,851 --> 00:59:39,891
I love it. That's what we love here. And yeah, I would agree that it's, it's going to be, I think

776
00:59:39,891 --> 00:59:44,131
the one thing we can all agree on is that it's going to be extremely volatile, especially the

777
00:59:44,131 --> 00:59:49,311
real estate market, because there's going to be multiple, all sorts of different forces acting on

778
00:59:49,311 --> 00:59:55,751
it at the same time. If, and when this scenario plays out where these real estate investors will

779
00:59:55,751 --> 01:00:03,271
all you know jump out and into bitcoin that is a downward price force but at the same time you

780
01:00:03,271 --> 01:00:08,011
know everything that the baby boomers touch is just protected by the full force of the money

781
01:00:08,011 --> 01:00:13,611
printer right now because that's you know their yeah their generation so the government is going

782
01:00:13,611 --> 01:00:18,291
to then just like flood money into it somehow to try to keep it propped up so the boomers don't

783
01:00:18,291 --> 01:00:24,191
lose money and so that's the thing yeah price force and you know there's just going to be a lot

784
01:00:24,191 --> 01:00:30,871
madness going on. And I think that the thing that comes to mind is that chart of the price of gold

785
01:00:30,871 --> 01:00:37,191
during the Weimar Republic hyperinflation, where it's just like up and down like crazy.

786
01:00:37,331 --> 01:00:37,871
That's a good point.

787
01:00:37,871 --> 01:00:42,891
Until it eventually ends up much higher. I think that it could be a similar situation for real

788
01:00:42,891 --> 01:00:48,971
estate, but it's going to end up at the long term. Maybe I'll disagree with you on this. I think

789
01:00:48,971 --> 01:00:55,071
long-term it will end up lower just because of deflation from Bitcoin becoming the new form of

790
01:00:55,071 --> 01:01:01,971
money. Would you think that there is some merit there? Yeah. I mean, look, once Bitcoin gets into

791
01:01:01,971 --> 01:01:06,971
the ridiculous numbers that seem ridiculous now, but we know aren't, and we know that's inevitable,

792
01:01:07,971 --> 01:01:12,291
yeah, the real estate people just, they'll be delusional or they'll be in some mental

793
01:01:12,291 --> 01:01:20,451
institution to not accept that this is a better capital allocation for them and a better investment.

794
01:01:20,951 --> 01:01:26,691
I think part of the reason – part of the problem, another problem I didn't mention earlier that real

795
01:01:26,691 --> 01:01:33,531
estate people have is that they all want to be the hero of their own story. And in real estate,

796
01:01:33,611 --> 01:01:37,951
you really can be the hero of your own story because you found the house. You figured out

797
01:01:37,951 --> 01:01:41,711
exactly what to do because these things aren't fungible. Everything is so unique.

798
01:01:42,291 --> 01:01:47,391
And it is – I get it and I will admit it's very rewarding.

799
01:01:47,711 --> 01:01:49,051
It's nice to feel very productive.

800
01:01:50,171 --> 01:02:01,191
Depending what your main vocation is, to be able to go spend a Sunday and tile a bathroom or paint a wall, at the end of the day, it feels good as a human being.

801
01:02:01,191 --> 01:02:03,571
Like you feel like you did do something.

802
01:02:04,751 --> 01:02:08,791
But you shouldn't have to for your savings, which is the whole point.

803
01:02:08,791 --> 01:02:14,071
You know, like, honestly, I will still flip homes because I have the skills.

804
01:02:14,171 --> 01:02:14,571
I love it.

805
01:02:14,631 --> 01:02:15,571
I have all the tools.

806
01:02:15,791 --> 01:02:17,371
But flipping a home is different.

807
01:02:17,451 --> 01:02:18,431
That's a business.

808
01:02:19,031 --> 01:02:21,151
You know, you're in and you're out in six weeks.

809
01:02:21,411 --> 01:02:21,731
Boom, boom.

810
01:02:22,091 --> 01:02:27,471
I'm talking about the people that don't want to be a landlord and, you know, have some property they have to check in on for the next 15 years.

811
01:02:27,851 --> 01:02:29,051
It sounds cool.

812
01:02:29,191 --> 01:02:35,911
But you're also creating value because you're taking something that's lower quality and you're making it better quality for the next people.

813
01:02:35,911 --> 01:02:40,311
So I would say like that is something that's creating productivity.

814
01:02:40,771 --> 01:02:42,911
It's not just some fiat thing.

815
01:02:43,311 --> 01:02:50,071
But because of Bitcoin, Bitcoin being the new hurdle rate, like, boy, it's like I don't jump on things like I normally would have.

816
01:02:50,171 --> 01:02:55,251
Like I'm looking at something around the corner from here and I'm just like, okay, I would put in this much for it.

817
01:02:55,351 --> 01:02:56,451
I would flip it by this.

818
01:02:56,531 --> 01:02:59,531
It's like, well, wait, what's Bitcoin going to do?

819
01:02:59,711 --> 01:03:01,151
And I don't have to do anything.

820
01:03:01,491 --> 01:03:02,811
And it's just like, man.

821
01:03:02,811 --> 01:03:06,711
And it's like we all know Natalie Burnell, who's very popular in the Bitcoin space.

822
01:03:07,571 --> 01:03:10,951
Her whole narrative, you've heard her many times, that she wants a home.

823
01:03:11,011 --> 01:03:12,151
She wants a home really, really bad.

824
01:03:12,271 --> 01:03:15,231
Her parents lost their home in the great financial crisis, 2008, 2009.

825
01:03:15,551 --> 01:03:16,231
She wants her home.

826
01:03:16,311 --> 01:03:17,151
She's now newly married.

827
01:03:18,771 --> 01:03:26,291
I know she can now afford a home, but she's looking at Bitcoin and she's like, I think I want to rent a little longer because I know where we're going.

828
01:03:26,391 --> 01:03:30,051
So it's like you delay that gratification as long as you can.

829
01:03:30,051 --> 01:03:46,251
And I look at like the Cardone brothers. I look at these billionaires, right? You look at Grant Cardone who's already starting to move some of his real estate into Bitcoin. You look at Gary Cardone who's moved all of it except for his home, and he says, I wish I did it earlier.

830
01:03:46,611 --> 01:03:56,011
And it's like these are guys that own $20, $30 million homes, and they're putting it all into Bitcoin. It's like, okay, like someone's going to start paying attention.

831
01:03:56,011 --> 01:04:10,971
Yeah, for sure. And it's really exciting to see things are starting to move that direction because it's just going to end up in a better place where we don't have everything but money is the money.

832
01:04:11,591 --> 01:04:11,811
Yeah.

833
01:04:11,811 --> 01:04:23,091
And this quote from Jeff Booth comes to mind where he says, when you have abundance in money, you have scarcity in everything else. And when you have scarcity in money, you have abundance in everything else. And that's where we're going.

834
01:04:23,091 --> 01:04:32,471
And when we have all of the money converging onto the best form of money ever, everything else becomes much more abundant for people and more affordable for people.

835
01:04:33,171 --> 01:04:40,431
And we finally reach that deflation point where things get cheaper over time as they naturally should.

836
01:04:41,191 --> 01:04:44,991
Because that's the way that things should just be when you think about it logically.

837
01:04:45,491 --> 01:04:47,751
Humans get better at creating stuff.

838
01:04:47,871 --> 01:04:51,951
We get better at communicating, better supply chains, more innovation.

839
01:04:51,951 --> 01:04:56,511
All these things should make everything more accessible for us, not less, as we're seeing right now.

840
01:04:56,571 --> 01:04:59,591
And I'm glad that people are starting to put those pieces of inflation together.

841
01:05:00,231 --> 01:05:00,251
Yeah.

842
01:05:01,371 --> 01:05:06,051
Yeah, we're all improving and innovating, but the measuring stick is growing faster than we can innovate.

843
01:05:06,371 --> 01:05:08,191
And it's like, no, let's have a fixed measuring stick.

844
01:05:08,271 --> 01:05:09,311
The ruler shouldn't change.

845
01:05:10,051 --> 01:05:10,451
Exactly.

846
01:05:10,911 --> 01:05:11,311
Exactly.

847
01:05:12,031 --> 01:05:15,191
I'd love to pivot over to the environment side, like we mentioned earlier.

848
01:05:15,311 --> 01:05:18,371
I know that that's something that you talk about in your book, Proof of Money.

849
01:05:18,371 --> 01:05:21,911
and this is a great piece to touch on.

850
01:05:22,011 --> 01:05:23,491
I haven't really done a whole lot on the show,

851
01:05:23,571 --> 01:05:24,371
but it's really important.

852
01:05:24,751 --> 01:05:27,091
So could you explain to me,

853
01:05:27,211 --> 01:05:29,311
like I am a, you know,

854
01:05:29,311 --> 01:05:31,011
like one of the millions of people

855
01:05:31,011 --> 01:05:32,251
we both see on the West Coast.

856
01:05:32,351 --> 01:05:33,291
I'm a climate activist.

857
01:05:33,431 --> 01:05:34,531
I really care about the environment,

858
01:05:34,651 --> 01:05:36,451
which I do care about the environment, by the way.

859
01:05:36,851 --> 01:05:39,571
But if you go into like a climate protest

860
01:05:39,571 --> 01:05:41,531
and you see all those people there who are,

861
01:05:41,991 --> 01:05:44,011
you know, they think that Bitcoin is bad

862
01:05:44,011 --> 01:05:45,031
because it uses energy.

863
01:05:45,711 --> 01:05:48,311
And what is your pitch to them?

864
01:05:48,371 --> 01:05:53,491
on explaining how Bitcoin is actually a very good thing for the environment when you look at the whole picture.

865
01:05:55,171 --> 01:05:57,511
Yeah, so I tackle it from different ways. Let me see.

866
01:05:57,511 --> 01:06:14,551
So one way to jump in is simply that, first of all, when we mine Bitcoin, there is zero pollutive gases.

867
01:06:14,551 --> 01:06:19,831
We don't emit anything just like a computer or any database.

868
01:06:20,271 --> 01:06:21,071
That's all we're running.

869
01:06:21,151 --> 01:06:22,111
We're just running a computer.

870
01:06:22,331 --> 01:06:24,171
So first of all, get that away.

871
01:06:24,291 --> 01:06:25,431
There's no such thing as waste.

872
01:06:25,511 --> 01:06:39,591
The only waste there is is that, yes, to make the components just like your computer, like your toaster, like your coffee maker, like your Tesla, it requires certain components that use fossil fuels if you think fossil fuels are bad.

873
01:06:40,831 --> 01:06:41,851
But that's it.

874
01:06:41,891 --> 01:06:42,871
It doesn't emit anything.

875
01:06:42,871 --> 01:07:05,177
And in fact it more like your hairdryer or your teapot And the warmth the only thing that it emits is warm air is a use in itself for something else We can use that to heat hot tubs heat your floors and hotels and houses and greenery whatever

876
01:07:05,177 --> 01:07:06,717
Which a lot of people are already doing, by the way.

877
01:07:06,777 --> 01:07:10,937
There's whole businesses around now that are like turning Bitcoin miners into heaters, which is super cool.

878
01:07:11,317 --> 01:07:12,257
Yeah, like space heaters.

879
01:07:12,377 --> 01:07:13,697
Like do you have a space heater?

880
01:07:13,757 --> 01:07:14,877
Most people have a space heater.

881
01:07:14,877 --> 01:07:16,717
Well, that's literally no different.

882
01:07:16,717 --> 01:07:24,617
And if suddenly your space heater or your toaster or your hairdryer were mining Bitcoin, in addition, would that suddenly be bad?

883
01:07:25,737 --> 01:07:29,097
So that's the first thing I let people know.

884
01:07:29,157 --> 01:07:30,417
First of all, let's just be honest.

885
01:07:30,537 --> 01:07:32,617
There's no pollution from Bitcoin mining.

886
01:07:32,957 --> 01:07:39,297
Now, because of the incentives of Bitcoin mining, the only way we can mine is with cheap electricity.

887
01:07:39,897 --> 01:07:44,177
No one over here in Hollywood can plug into their wall socket and mine.

888
01:07:44,257 --> 01:07:45,597
They will be losing money.

889
01:07:45,597 --> 01:07:51,117
it's it's a losing proposition you there's absolutely no way anyone will make money so

890
01:07:51,117 --> 01:07:56,077
i just explained to them how are we going to find cheap electricity in fact what is the cheapest

891
01:07:56,077 --> 01:08:03,337
electricity oh well the cheapest is if it's discarded or if it's wasted or if it's stranded

892
01:08:03,337 --> 01:08:09,197
it's orphaned somewhere that no other user of any kind can even access and in fact it's just

893
01:08:09,197 --> 01:08:14,197
going straight up into the air it's coming out of a waterfall to the base of a volcano it's oh

894
01:08:14,197 --> 01:08:20,357
the sun is shining, the wind is blowing. Wouldn't that, if no one is using that energy,

895
01:08:20,477 --> 01:08:25,657
would you be against us taking that? And by the way, what if that energy came from a landfill

896
01:08:25,657 --> 01:08:32,157
that's emitting gases? You're against CO2? Well, how about 84 times more pollutive is just going

897
01:08:32,157 --> 01:08:36,097
straight into the air from the landfills? That one always gets them. The landfills blows their mind.

898
01:08:36,817 --> 01:08:40,657
Yeah. The methane, you mean? Yeah. Yeah. The methane, excuse me. Yeah. CH4. Because no one

899
01:08:40,657 --> 01:08:44,777
knows no one has thought about methane. And I'm like, yeah, you know, you turn on your stove to

900
01:08:44,777 --> 01:08:51,017
heat up and scramble your eggs that second before it ignites and lights. That's the methane. That's

901
01:08:51,017 --> 01:08:55,237
the gas. And that is just going straight into the air. You know, like here in California,

902
01:08:55,237 --> 01:08:59,017
I think we have like 10,000 landfills. It's like, what? Well, we can take, you know,

903
01:08:59,317 --> 01:09:07,537
40 of these miners, the size of a large shoebox, plop them on there. That gas comes up. We ignite

904
01:09:07,537 --> 01:09:12,837
it, combust it. It turns a turbine, turns the rod, the coil goes around the rod into our machines,

905
01:09:12,957 --> 01:09:16,357
gives us electricity. So it's free electricity. We haven't taken anything away from anyone else.

906
01:09:16,517 --> 01:09:21,017
We're now capping that methane. Would that be good? Yeah, that'd be good to cap the methane.

907
01:09:21,517 --> 01:09:30,197
And now we're creating Bitcoin, which in essence is a way to transport, to teleport like Star Trek

908
01:09:30,197 --> 01:09:35,337
electricity to anyone else, anywhere else in the world. Like we can capture it here where no one

909
01:09:35,337 --> 01:09:39,557
can use it or access it and teleport to where someone else is. Wait, how do you do that?

910
01:09:40,137 --> 01:09:43,757
Well, because it converts to Bitcoin. We send them the Bitcoin, they sell the Bitcoin,

911
01:09:43,857 --> 01:09:47,277
they have their electricity. It's like, what? That's kind of mind blowing to people

912
01:09:47,277 --> 01:09:54,697
that you can do that because there's no other energy consumer that can go to the source.

913
01:09:54,797 --> 01:09:58,477
We are literally the only one, you know, all of this stuff, Ben, but this kind of blows them

914
01:09:58,477 --> 01:10:02,117
because no one has thought about this. I never thought about this until I learned all this.

915
01:10:02,117 --> 01:10:07,397
And so on top of that, then you can teach them about – because they're all for renewables.

916
01:10:07,517 --> 01:10:08,997
Oh, renewable energy, renewable energy.

917
01:10:09,117 --> 01:10:10,177
It's like, OK, great.

918
01:10:10,257 --> 01:10:17,377
Aside from the facts that most renewable just clearly requires a lot of fossil fuels to create in the first place, well, we can help encourage that.

919
01:10:17,457 --> 01:10:18,557
We can be the build-out, right?

920
01:10:18,617 --> 01:10:20,817
We're the consumer of first resort.

921
01:10:20,817 --> 01:10:25,697
where we go to this place where no one can go. And because it's going to cost, you know, whatever,

922
01:10:26,077 --> 01:10:32,417
10 million bucks per mile just to bring this renewable source from these windmills in the

923
01:10:32,417 --> 01:10:36,157
middle of some planes out to consumers, the miners were going to go there and we're going to move

924
01:10:36,157 --> 01:10:40,757
with them until it gets to consumers. And then we're going to leave, right? Like we, we do become

925
01:10:40,757 --> 01:10:46,397
these, these sort of raccoons or dung beetles of energy because we will go anywhere. And we don't

926
01:10:46,397 --> 01:10:51,797
care if it's a pretty and nice sprinkled donut to eat, which most consumers want. We'll take the

927
01:10:51,797 --> 01:10:56,797
donuts that fell on the floor that are crumbled, that have been fried too long. We don't care.

928
01:10:56,877 --> 01:11:00,337
We'll eat those up. And then when people are lined up to that donut shop to have the pretty donuts,

929
01:11:00,517 --> 01:11:04,257
we'll step off and we'll go away. And then when that donut shop person wants to franchise and

930
01:11:04,257 --> 01:11:07,817
open one over here and over there, we'll go there to be the first customer.

931
01:11:10,057 --> 01:11:14,837
Yeah. I love it. And that's a, yeah, just the, that's like the depth of this thing,

932
01:11:14,837 --> 01:11:16,397
which people don't normally think about.

933
01:11:17,697 --> 01:11:20,677
And the thing I would add to that is,

934
01:11:21,077 --> 01:11:22,597
you did touch on this a little bit,

935
01:11:22,637 --> 01:11:23,797
but I'll just really emphasize it,

936
01:11:23,877 --> 01:11:26,857
is how all that Bitcoin miners care about

937
01:11:26,857 --> 01:11:30,137
is how cheap the energy is and how efficient it is

938
01:11:30,137 --> 01:11:31,417
because they want to make money.

939
01:11:31,537 --> 01:11:34,137
It's like a pure monetization signal.

940
01:11:34,297 --> 01:11:35,557
Like they want cheap energy

941
01:11:35,557 --> 01:11:37,577
so they can make more Bitcoin, keep more Bitcoin.

942
01:11:38,137 --> 01:11:41,377
And what this will do is it helps bootstrap

943
01:11:41,377 --> 01:11:43,917
these cheaper, more efficient energy sources

944
01:11:43,917 --> 01:11:46,257
that are being stranded already.

945
01:11:46,397 --> 01:11:46,797
They're wasted.

946
01:11:47,157 --> 01:11:50,657
So it's a sponge that sucks up this stranded energy

947
01:11:50,657 --> 01:11:52,157
that isn't being used by anyone.

948
01:11:52,677 --> 01:11:52,877
That's right.

949
01:11:52,977 --> 01:11:53,757
And at the same time,

950
01:11:53,757 --> 01:11:56,537
it's helping bootstrap these more efficient energies.

951
01:11:56,697 --> 01:11:59,537
And I even go like crazy big brain with it,

952
01:11:59,657 --> 01:12:03,757
which is, well, if I'm talking to one of these climate folks

953
01:12:03,757 --> 01:12:07,077
who is really big on solar or wind or something like that,

954
01:12:07,437 --> 01:12:08,317
I would say, great.

955
01:12:08,317 --> 01:12:12,617
If those projects, if they're well run

956
01:12:12,617 --> 01:12:17,877
and they need more money in financial bootstrapping,

957
01:12:18,037 --> 01:12:19,997
then the Bitcoin miners can come plug into that.

958
01:12:20,077 --> 01:12:21,577
And we see that happening all over the place.

959
01:12:22,017 --> 01:12:23,537
Right, because of the intermittency, right?

960
01:12:23,777 --> 01:12:24,597
Yeah, exactly.

961
01:12:24,757 --> 01:12:27,257
It helps smooth out the profits for them.

962
01:12:28,077 --> 01:12:31,797
But I think even bigger, looking at the topic of free energy,

963
01:12:31,897 --> 01:12:33,217
I don't know if you've even looked into that,

964
01:12:33,277 --> 01:12:36,797
but this is like a very cosmic topic that I love diving into here,

965
01:12:36,797 --> 01:12:46,557
where I believe personally that there's going to be much more advanced energy sources down the road

966
01:12:46,557 --> 01:12:49,977
than any of the things we're talking about here, the fossil fuels or the renewables.

967
01:12:50,497 --> 01:12:54,177
And the only way that we're going to get there, or at least the best way we're going to get there

968
01:12:54,177 --> 01:12:59,197
and figure that out, is by having these Bitcoin miners who are fully incentivized

969
01:12:59,197 --> 01:13:03,537
and finding the cheapest possible energy because the ultimate cheap energy is free energy.

970
01:13:04,297 --> 01:13:04,457
That's right.

971
01:13:04,457 --> 01:13:07,457
Do you ever think about this or is that a rival you bend down?

972
01:13:07,537 --> 01:13:09,677
Because this has been a crazy one I've been learning more about recently.

973
01:13:10,737 --> 01:13:11,097
I do.

974
01:13:11,717 --> 01:13:21,457
I do because it's like it's so foreign to us to – when you start a business or you go into an industry, you always think how can I increase revenues?

975
01:13:21,937 --> 01:13:23,117
How do I just make more money?

976
01:13:23,777 --> 01:13:26,177
And like a lot of things in Bitcoin, it's backwards.

977
01:13:26,337 --> 01:13:28,397
It turns the world upside down and says, no, no, no, no.

978
01:13:28,877 --> 01:13:30,817
With Bitcoin, we know exactly what the revenue is.

979
01:13:30,817 --> 01:13:34,597
Like you've never had a business where you know this is the only Bitcoin that's going to come in.

980
01:13:34,637 --> 01:13:40,237
I mean if you win a block, of course, there's still the lottery, which is what required – which is why we need cheap energy.

981
01:13:40,877 --> 01:13:42,977
But it's like – but we know what it will be.

982
01:13:43,157 --> 01:13:44,077
We're capped.

983
01:13:44,697 --> 01:13:47,497
The only thing we can – the only lever we have is expenses.

984
01:13:48,317 --> 01:13:53,917
So if you want to be the best miner, if you want to win the mining game, you have to go to zero.

985
01:13:54,437 --> 01:13:56,217
Like that – there's nowhere else to go.

986
01:13:56,217 --> 01:14:00,277
I guess the better place to go with that is someone pays you to take their energy, right?

987
01:14:00,817 --> 01:14:10,877
And maybe we will get to that point where one of these big oil companies or energy companies says, hey, if you're going to come over here, cap our flared wells, which we need to meet EPA standards and whatnot.

988
01:14:11,037 --> 01:14:15,557
If you're going to come – maybe it will get so competitive that they will start paying us to eat their energy.

989
01:14:15,837 --> 01:14:16,357
I don't know.

990
01:14:16,737 --> 01:14:19,577
But to me, that would take it one step further.

991
01:14:20,257 --> 01:14:22,417
But yeah, I mean we need to go nuclear.

992
01:14:22,417 --> 01:14:28,957
Yeah, that's a whole podcast in itself.

993
01:14:28,957 --> 01:14:35,917
Yeah, and there will be like steps to this thing of improving what our energy load is.

994
01:14:36,017 --> 01:14:36,497
Yes.

995
01:14:36,597 --> 01:14:38,797
Because there's definitely tiers to it.

996
01:14:39,657 --> 01:14:49,297
And it's so hard to figure out what is even the best because there's so much noise around it, so much propaganda, so many financial incentives within that industry.

997
01:14:49,577 --> 01:14:49,977
Right.

998
01:14:49,977 --> 01:14:54,777
Where money is being spent to sway public opinion in certain ways about certain forms of energy.

999
01:14:54,997 --> 01:14:56,117
All the lobbyists.

1000
01:14:56,117 --> 01:15:00,417
Yeah, the lobbying, it's all really a mess right now.

1001
01:15:00,697 --> 01:15:08,977
And I think that clearing that away and just having pure signal over the Bitcoin miners will just figure out what is the actual cheapest.

1002
01:15:09,357 --> 01:15:15,917
It's a forcing function for the true best, most efficient energy that we have with the least downsides.

1003
01:15:16,077 --> 01:15:25,257
And I think that's really going to be an exciting benefit just for the energy industry and could take us really exciting places on a long enough time frame, which I'm looking forward to.

1004
01:15:26,117 --> 01:15:39,837
Another angle that we haven't even touched, or I don't think you mentioned this, but is just people aren't thinking about the comparison we're talking about when they think that, oh, Bitcoin uses lots of energy, so it's bad.

1005
01:15:40,457 --> 01:15:44,537
They're not comparing it to the fiat system and how much energy the fiat system uses.

1006
01:15:44,537 --> 01:15:50,837
So how do you even begin, Terrence, to explain how much energy the fiat system uses?

1007
01:15:50,837 --> 01:15:57,517
It's obviously way more than Bitcoin, and it's just like a monstrosity of energy wastage.

1008
01:15:57,577 --> 01:16:00,837
How do you start to explain how much energy that uses?

1009
01:16:02,277 --> 01:16:05,437
Well, yeah, I mean that's a whole other rabbit hole too, right?

1010
01:16:05,477 --> 01:16:08,857
Like do you get even to the level of the military and protecting fiat?

1011
01:16:08,857 --> 01:16:22,917
But yeah, if you want to just talk about the pure energy of the banks, of the suits, of the retail brick and mortars, including the thermometer on the outside of a bank or all of Wall Street, which is literally just there to financialize things.

1012
01:16:23,457 --> 01:16:28,457
All the people, all the employees driving their cars into work, burning more fossil fuels.

1013
01:16:28,657 --> 01:16:30,937
Like the amount of pieces to it is just phenomenal.

1014
01:16:30,937 --> 01:16:34,777
Like you said, the military uses a ton of energy.

1015
01:16:34,777 --> 01:16:41,017
like it's one of the biggest energy like wasters ever just huge fossil fuel producer it's it's a

1016
01:16:41,017 --> 01:16:45,637
mess and it is to protect the dollar that's why we have that big of a military yeah no i mean we

1017
01:16:45,637 --> 01:16:51,677
have like you know hundreds of these like stealth fighters that cost a billion dollars a year each

1018
01:16:51,677 --> 01:16:55,737
just in the amount of fuel that they're burning and they have to be sitting there ready to go at

1019
01:16:55,737 --> 01:17:01,357
any minute's notice i mean anyways that's getting a little off topic but yeah it's like you know you

1020
01:17:01,357 --> 01:17:05,217
could tell someone anywhere you live, just get out in your car and drive a few blocks

1021
01:17:05,217 --> 01:17:06,757
for like, are you going to see a bank?

1022
01:17:07,237 --> 01:17:11,177
Like, what's the amount of energy and to transport and all those building materials

1023
01:17:11,177 --> 01:17:16,017
and to keep it running and all of that, you know, compared to something that's

1024
01:17:16,017 --> 01:17:32,924
completely decentralized and incentivized to have the cheapest electricity possible that does secure your wealth that does keep you from being inflated upon and from being debased and diluted You know sometimes you have to back up and just also ask them the bigger question

1025
01:17:33,024 --> 01:17:37,364
And it's like, well, well, what is good energy? What is bad energy? What does energy mean to you?

1026
01:17:37,544 --> 01:17:43,944
Like, is energy not simply, you know, what you've done in the past and now what you can do now? Like,

1027
01:17:44,004 --> 01:17:49,484
who is to say how you get, are you going to sit home for one weekend and watch 15,

1028
01:17:49,484 --> 01:17:54,744
seasons of the Kardashians, I think that's a waste of energy. I think the waste of energy is

1029
01:17:54,744 --> 01:17:59,844
making the show Kardashians in the first place. All the money, the millions of dollars they're

1030
01:17:59,844 --> 01:18:07,764
just spending on literally every single episode. And it's like, at what point are we judging others

1031
01:18:07,764 --> 01:18:13,364
how they spend their energy? I choose to spend my energy on something that secures my past wealth.

1032
01:18:13,364 --> 01:18:40,004
That's it. I have a receipt. I took my car into the valet. He gave me a receipt for my car. When I go back to get my car, I want the whole car there. I don't want the wheel missing and the steering wheel missing. I don't want it to start erasing like back to the future photo. I want the whole thing. So I'm going to use my energy for that. And guess what? I can only do that if I'm finding energy that no one else wants. Anyone else who needs energy, I'm not taking energy away from anybody else.

1033
01:18:40,004 --> 01:18:47,864
And I'm not causing any energy producer to have to make more energy just for me because I'm going to go find it where it's completely wasted and no one is using it.

1034
01:18:48,484 --> 01:18:54,604
It's like how much energy is wasted just in the phantom drain from people that have to have their laptops plugged in all the time.

1035
01:18:54,984 --> 01:18:55,384
Well, guess what?

1036
01:18:55,404 --> 01:18:56,544
Some people find that valuable.

1037
01:18:57,364 --> 01:18:58,604
Do you use the internet?

1038
01:18:59,624 --> 01:19:03,964
37% of all of the internet's energy is just for porn.

1039
01:19:04,644 --> 01:19:08,324
Well, so you must be for porn then if you're turning on it.

1040
01:19:08,324 --> 01:19:12,584
Like, you know, you get into where the energy comes from and how it's being used.

1041
01:19:12,624 --> 01:19:15,724
And it's like, yes, some people find that valuable and you shouldn't be able to tell

1042
01:19:15,724 --> 01:19:19,444
people how they use their energy, which is simply their past time.

1043
01:19:19,664 --> 01:19:20,164
It's their money.

1044
01:19:20,264 --> 01:19:21,164
It's what they've worked for.

1045
01:19:21,804 --> 01:19:23,584
So to me, that's always the bigger question.

1046
01:19:24,724 --> 01:19:27,164
And then it's like, you know, OK, well, how will you drive a Tesla?

1047
01:19:27,984 --> 01:19:32,644
Do you want to look at every single part in that car and all the fossil fuels, the amount

1048
01:19:32,644 --> 01:19:37,944
of energy that was used for all those plastics, those synthetics, the paint, that battery?

1049
01:19:38,324 --> 01:19:47,924
Took like 2,000 tons of dirt to be removed for that single Tesla battery and what that does to the environment and the plant and all the chemicals going into the waterbeds.

1050
01:19:47,924 --> 01:20:00,724
So, yeah, it's so obvious to us, Ben, because we've studied this and it's hard to allow people to get there.

1051
01:20:00,784 --> 01:20:03,104
It's just like you just want to shove it all down their throat and say, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1052
01:20:03,164 --> 01:20:03,824
Here's all the facts.

1053
01:20:04,204 --> 01:20:06,304
But it's like they have to arrive at it like we did.

1054
01:20:06,304 --> 01:20:19,864
And I think some of these baby steps are helpful. I mean, I sometimes wonder, was Satoshi so – I mean, did he really figure all this out or did we get lucky with this part?

1055
01:20:19,944 --> 01:20:24,064
Was he really like, wow, Bitcoin miners are going to eat up all this wasted energy?

1056
01:20:24,064 --> 01:20:28,304
Like I don't know. Did he think that? I don't know that he thought that far.

1057
01:20:28,424 --> 01:20:42,464
Like maybe we just got lucky with some of these things, but it's too difficult to imagine that all of these things he just thought through perfectly and just worked so beautifully where the incentives are for humans just to do good.

1058
01:20:44,984 --> 01:20:50,404
I don't know. I think about that sometimes. Like, yeah, was it like lightning in a bottle with what he did?

1059
01:20:50,404 --> 01:20:57,384
yeah it's a great question because none of us know how much of this was thought out ahead of time

1060
01:20:57,384 --> 01:21:02,024
yeah it just sort of seems like the more you read satoshi's work in a white paper like

1061
01:21:02,024 --> 01:21:10,284
so much of this was planned and understood because it the creator was just so such a polymath and

1062
01:21:10,284 --> 01:21:14,484
all these different things he touched on all these things and sort of explored it i say he

1063
01:21:14,484 --> 01:21:19,324
we don't even know if it was a he or if it was a group or whatever but it just it's incredible how

1064
01:21:19,324 --> 01:21:24,904
it's unfolding and how it's pulling all this humanity together, all the best of humanity

1065
01:21:24,904 --> 01:21:27,684
that as we've seen from being a part of this community.

1066
01:21:28,224 --> 01:21:30,184
And it's just so exciting to be a part of.

1067
01:21:30,324 --> 01:21:32,164
And it's such an honor to be a part of it.

1068
01:21:32,244 --> 01:21:36,864
And I think that this is kind of a good transition that we could start wrapping things up here.

1069
01:21:36,864 --> 01:21:37,264
Yes.

1070
01:21:37,404 --> 01:21:43,204
And the final question that you started with at the very beginning is you love the idea

1071
01:21:43,204 --> 01:21:44,124
of the hero's journey.

1072
01:21:44,264 --> 01:21:45,984
And this is like the quintessential story.

1073
01:21:45,984 --> 01:21:54,864
So my final question for you would be, what is the Bitcoin or a hero's journey and why should the person listening to this podcast right now embark on this with us?

1074
01:21:55,524 --> 01:22:00,244
The hero's journey is that we – that there's a better world.

1075
01:22:00,904 --> 01:22:12,204
Other Bitcoiners are asking you to cross the threshold with them into this newer world to unplug and see the beautiful world that is there without having to disrupt the current world.

1076
01:22:12,204 --> 01:22:16,684
If people are comfortable in their world, they can stay there.

1077
01:22:16,744 --> 01:22:18,164
They don't have to go to Oz.

1078
01:22:19,344 --> 01:22:24,044
And but as everyone does in the hero's journey, they need a mentor.

1079
01:22:24,624 --> 01:22:26,664
They you know, and that mentor could be books.

1080
01:22:26,744 --> 01:22:27,544
It could be podcasts.

1081
01:22:27,644 --> 01:22:31,284
It doesn't have to be a person, but they need they need someone to bring them along.

1082
01:22:32,284 --> 01:22:33,304
They're going to be tested.

1083
01:22:33,564 --> 01:22:36,704
There's going to be trials and tribulations for most of us.

1084
01:22:36,764 --> 01:22:37,364
That's crypto.

1085
01:22:38,024 --> 01:22:39,884
That's that's like, OK, wow.

1086
01:22:39,884 --> 01:22:41,064
Well, what about all these other things?

1087
01:22:41,144 --> 01:22:42,644
This unit bias, this is cheaper.

1088
01:22:42,824 --> 01:22:43,964
Wow, activity bias.

1089
01:22:44,044 --> 01:22:45,064
I got to be doing something.

1090
01:22:46,104 --> 01:22:49,924
And you reach a point where you have to struggle with yourself.

1091
01:22:50,044 --> 01:23:03,984
And oftentimes the inner beast is yourself because we have been conditioned and you have to deprogram yourself into what is possible with Bitcoin and exactly how Bitcoin works.

1092
01:23:03,984 --> 01:23:13,544
And so, yeah, you get to this point where you learn so much about Bitcoin that you reach the holy grail.

1093
01:23:13,884 --> 01:23:20,304
But the real reward, just like the hero's journey, isn't just reaching the holy grail.

1094
01:23:20,944 --> 01:23:23,524
It's returning to your old world.

1095
01:23:24,204 --> 01:23:26,184
It's returning with the spoils.

1096
01:23:26,504 --> 01:23:31,964
It's returning renewed with the new perspective because we ultimately do live in meat space.

1097
01:23:31,964 --> 01:23:35,844
We still do have to interact with our relatives at Thanksgiving, right?

1098
01:23:37,364 --> 01:23:42,344
So you return with this new perspective and you can appreciate things in a different way.

1099
01:23:42,464 --> 01:23:47,704
You can make your life peaceful even if other people don't choose to be – choose to that.

1100
01:23:47,824 --> 01:23:50,264
So you don't – you aren't leaving your family.

1101
01:23:50,364 --> 01:23:59,284
You aren't leaving your friends, but you get to have this inner peace, almost this like self-actualization because everything becomes clear.

1102
01:23:59,644 --> 01:24:05,604
It's like you live in this house and the windows are – every day get a little dirtier.

1103
01:24:05,684 --> 01:24:06,804
We know that this happens, right?

1104
01:24:06,804 --> 01:24:07,624
But we don't pay attention.

1105
01:24:07,784 --> 01:24:08,804
We're just like, oh, I can see.

1106
01:24:08,884 --> 01:24:09,444
I can see.

1107
01:24:09,724 --> 01:24:11,124
Oh, my walls are getting dingy.

1108
01:24:11,184 --> 01:24:12,384
Let me paint them bright white.

1109
01:24:13,144 --> 01:24:16,064
But all this time, all we need to do is go out and wash the windows.

1110
01:24:16,584 --> 01:24:24,324
Yet here we are changing the colors and getting better eyeglasses and getting – it's like because we don't know that, yeah, every day a little bit of dirt gets out on those windows.

1111
01:24:25,324 --> 01:24:31,104
And Bitcoin reveals to us the solution that if I were to knock on your door and say, hey, I wash windows, be like, well, my windows are fine.

1112
01:24:31,124 --> 01:24:31,964
I can see through them.

1113
01:24:32,284 --> 01:24:35,524
And we just have to reveal to people that, no, just wipe your finger on there.

1114
01:24:35,624 --> 01:24:36,424
We'll show you.

1115
01:24:37,804 --> 01:24:39,144
So that's kind of the hero's journey.

1116
01:24:39,364 --> 01:24:40,464
You're going to be tested.

1117
01:24:40,764 --> 01:24:41,804
It's going to be challenging.

1118
01:24:41,984 --> 01:24:42,764
It's going to be hard.

1119
01:24:45,924 --> 01:24:49,824
It's easy to say, yeah, just get Bitcoin and don't do anything else.

1120
01:24:49,844 --> 01:24:51,364
But, man, I don't know if anyone can do that.

1121
01:24:51,624 --> 01:24:53,484
I don't know anyone who has done that.

1122
01:24:54,324 --> 01:24:57,744
Um, but you know, we'll, we'll, we'll tell you to do that anyway.

1123
01:24:59,104 --> 01:24:59,944
I love it.

1124
01:25:00,444 --> 01:25:06,144
It's you and I can both attest and all the other dozens at this point of Bitcoiners I

1125
01:25:06,144 --> 01:25:10,744
brought on the podcast all have different stories that have different pieces to them,

1126
01:25:10,744 --> 01:25:15,624
but they all have the similar, uh, they have the similarities of just becoming a much better

1127
01:25:15,624 --> 01:25:20,424
person and seeing the world in a much more positive forward looking light.

1128
01:25:20,424 --> 01:25:26,184
and it's so exciting how many different aspects it touches once you fix the money.

1129
01:25:26,384 --> 01:25:28,824
So really just excited for the future.

1130
01:25:28,944 --> 01:25:31,464
And I hope that more people listening get more excited just listening to this

1131
01:25:31,464 --> 01:25:33,644
because it really is going to become so much better.

1132
01:25:34,144 --> 01:25:36,524
And we can say thank you to Satoshi for that,

1133
01:25:36,524 --> 01:25:40,104
for giving us this hope for the future,

1134
01:25:40,244 --> 01:25:44,084
which would be tough to be hopeful right now if that wasn't there

1135
01:25:44,084 --> 01:25:47,144
because there are so many problems that all come down to the money.

1136
01:25:47,144 --> 01:25:53,144
So, Terrence, Michael, where can people follow you, sir, and go get your awesome book, Proof of Money?

1137
01:25:53,264 --> 01:25:54,724
Give us the full shilling here.

1138
01:25:55,564 --> 01:26:00,804
Oh, sure. The easiest place is X. I'm there most all days just at Proof of Money.

1139
01:26:01,464 --> 01:26:08,284
And that's the name of my book, Proof of Money, which they can pick up anywhere, all formats, audio, hard, paper, Kindle, whatever.

1140
01:26:10,464 --> 01:26:13,964
And I will say this for what it's worth because there are a lot of Bitcoin books.

1141
01:26:13,964 --> 01:26:22,064
And I feel like whatever book someone picks up for whatever reason, if it's their first book, it's going to be great.

1142
01:26:22,424 --> 01:26:24,124
So you don't have to get my book.

1143
01:26:25,244 --> 01:26:26,544
I think my book is good.

1144
01:26:26,604 --> 01:26:28,944
A lot of people have found a lot of value in it.

1145
01:26:29,064 --> 01:26:31,904
But pick up whatever book you feel comfortable with.

1146
01:26:33,104 --> 01:26:34,164
But I will say this.

1147
01:26:34,744 --> 01:26:40,004
Unlike most Bitcoin books, I'm not a Bitcoiner who decided to write a book about Bitcoin.

1148
01:26:40,644 --> 01:26:41,604
I am a writer.

1149
01:26:41,604 --> 01:26:42,844
I've written many books.

1150
01:26:43,964 --> 01:26:45,384
And I found Bitcoin.

1151
01:26:45,584 --> 01:26:49,424
So people that read my book are like, oh, your approach is a little different.

1152
01:26:49,544 --> 01:26:51,364
They like maybe the way I said it.

1153
01:26:51,404 --> 01:26:56,544
I do tell story with my book, which some people like.

1154
01:26:56,604 --> 01:26:57,844
They're like, oh my God, I love that you could.

1155
01:26:58,244 --> 01:27:00,004
It's filled with analogies and metaphors.

1156
01:27:00,124 --> 01:27:01,804
So if you like that, there's a lot of that.

1157
01:27:02,804 --> 01:27:03,364
I love that.

1158
01:27:03,424 --> 01:27:09,804
I do think a lot of people will like that because the quintessential Bitcoin book people recommend is usually the Bitcoin standard.

1159
01:27:09,804 --> 01:27:13,584
But it's pretty thick and does read kind of like a textbook.

1160
01:27:13,964 --> 01:27:19,904
So for people who want more of an easy on-ramp, I think that yours would be ideal for that.

1161
01:27:20,024 --> 01:27:24,644
So we'll definitely include the links to that in the show notes for everyone to go check it out.

1162
01:27:25,384 --> 01:27:27,824
And yeah, man, it's been such a pleasure chatting with you today.

1163
01:27:27,884 --> 01:27:30,324
This has been an awesome conversation, so I really appreciate you being here.

1164
01:27:30,724 --> 01:27:31,624
You too, Ben. Thank you.

1165
01:27:31,684 --> 01:27:35,344
Yeah, and please come back onto the Bitcoin Today spaces too.

1166
01:27:35,424 --> 01:27:36,784
We loved having you, so it's awesome.

1167
01:27:36,784 --> 01:27:38,004
I will be. I'd love to.

1168
01:27:38,404 --> 01:27:39,984
You're a great host. Great questions.

1169
01:27:39,984 --> 01:27:45,584
There was a point last year where I was consistently on spaces like every day almost.

1170
01:27:46,224 --> 01:27:47,864
So I'd love to get back in on that.

1171
01:27:48,004 --> 01:27:50,684
It's a lot of fun, especially when Bitcoin is doing this crazy thing.

1172
01:27:50,844 --> 01:27:52,544
So we'll try to get back in there.

1173
01:27:53,544 --> 01:27:53,864
Awesome.

1174
01:27:54,024 --> 01:27:54,484
Thanks, Ben.