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You see them around here.

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They walk in a line, have to hold each other's hand.

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You have to put your hand up if you want to go to the toilet.

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So you've got these sort of followers who never question anything they're told.

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So the skill of questioning gets to 18 and then they are,

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literally they don't have that ability.

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And then you have our kids who question everything and they question us,

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which is what you want.

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What we're doing is we're growing these little problem solvers who enjoy what they do.

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Hello, everybody. Thank you so much for coming back for another episode of the Ben Worman podcast.

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We have Sylvia and Rob Brindad today to talk to us about this really awesome new project they're working on called A Place to Be.

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it's fixing the educational paradigm that more and more people are figuring out is just not doing

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well for the vast majority of people out there someone saved everybody so sylvia and rob thank

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you so much for joining me today to talk really appreciate you being here hi ben thanks for the

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invitation yeah thank you so much so this is the first episode i've had where there's been multiple

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people in a single episode so that's exciting because you guys are such a team i can just tell

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from watching the content around you guys that you really complement each other well and this is

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just a great team effort here so could you give a bit of a backstory on where you both came from

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and how you ended up coming together for this educational reform project that you call a place

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to be uh well Rob and I met in Barcelona in 2008 and we spent 11 years there uh our daughter Lima

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was born there in 2016 and when she was three we moved to the UK and then we came to this point

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where you know we were supposed to put her into daycare into kindergarten because I was also

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pregnant with the second one and when we walked into this like the best kindergarten that would

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bring her into the best school um I just wanted to cry like imagining having to leave her there

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and they wouldn't even let me uh you know be with her until she got used to it they said no you just

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drop her off and she will cry and she'll be fine and you know that's how it goes um that's when I

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said right afterwards I said to Rob we're not going to send her into to daycare and we're not

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going to put her ever into school because I had already been reading about homeschooling and

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unschooling and um yeah we just made the decision Rob you know he was a bit more but you know you

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need to go to school and uh what if and uh but you know I was very for me that was it the decision

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was done and I was kind of co-educating Rob while reading I was sent him screenshots or some videos

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or, you know, just sending him bits and bobs about unschooling.

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And at some point he knew this was the right decision.

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So she green-pilled me.

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Yeah, I green-pilled from this, how we call converting somebody into an unschooler.

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We just recently came up with that term last year.

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Yeah, then we traveled a lot.

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We left UK, ended up in Madeira.

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but before we moved there we had spent two months in Madeira to get a feel for it

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we loved it in that in those two months I was reading Summerhill School by A.S. Neal

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and I liked the idea of you know children being able to just be themselves and play

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and adults out there to support the kids what I didn't like so much was that it was a boarding

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school because I never wanted to felt like I need to send my kids away and I want others to look

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after them or take care of them or raise them so I had the idea of a neighborhood because that's

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what I was looking for I had a really nice upbringing like kindergarten was awesome I hated

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school but it was like four hours a day and afterwards I was just on the street playing

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with my friends and exploring like not in the 90s 80s and 90s and that's what I wanted for my kids

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but I as I knew I wasn't going to send them to school or we weren't going to send them to school

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I wanted a neighborhood where there were all unschoolers so that's when I had the initial

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idea then when we moved there at some point I said to Rob you know what I really like this

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I think I'm going to look into it. And Rob was very hesitant. Now you're crazy and it's way too big.

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And, you know, so much work, so much money. How? And no.

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So after a few weeks or months of me just, you know, thinking about it day and night at some point,

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once the kids had gone to sleep, I sat down in the evenings on the computer to start, you know, mapping out my plan.

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and that's when it started.

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At some point, like after a week or so,

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when Rob had noticed I had been doing something online in the evenings,

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I told him, you know what, I'm going for it.

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I'm going to do this.

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And then he said, okay.

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He saw that I was serious and then he was supportive

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and we started doing this together.

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He's Free Madeira, the Bitcoin Association.

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So when we had moved here, we already knew a lot of Bitcoiners.

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so we always when there was a bitcoin family we invited them to our home and we talked about the

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project everybody loved it so it was very much like i could see people love it people like the

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idea and people are looking for this um yeah i had no concrete plan it was really step by step

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and it is still step by step but in the last few days and weeks we've done some very important

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steps that has has brought our project way further because you know i started this like two and a

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half years ago with the idea brand new crazy how like this is such it seems like i've been hearing

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about this for a few years but it really has just started and it's super exciting just thinking

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about the possibilities yeah ben uh went back uh maybe two and a half years ago i sat down with

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uh well a little bit before that with andre losha from you know the legend here

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and we we were having a coffee and we were talking about making madeira like a

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sort of the citadel that sort of idea of a ground up movement and he was you know he has so much

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energy and i was saying you know we're considering doing this project he was like oh my god you got

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to do it it would it would be so it would it would really stamp Madeira as this sort of a location

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where people it just pulls in more people and I was reticent about moving the project forward

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because it's so massive it started off we started off with the idea of it being quite you know a

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localized thing and it grew and we adapted to the demand of and then it the the idea is and

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then sylvia explained more about where it's got to because when when max demarco first did that

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documentary with us it is just morphed into um this monster and um but sylvia is you know i saw

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that she was fully in.

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And then I was like, okay, let's do this.

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And I think we had that conversation where it was like,

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if you're going to do something in this life,

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do something you enjoy and do something you want,

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even if it's kind of crazy, there's nothing there.

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And now we've got the investors

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And it's gone from a little thing to a mega thing.

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Yeah.

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For the listeners that haven't heard of Madeira, just to elaborate on that, it's basically this paradise island in Portugal.

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I've only seen pictures and videos of it, and I am extremely jealous and want to visit very badly.

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But it looks like just an incredible location to build a new business because it has this sense of independence.

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and it's just like a beautiful location full of nature and great people is it like is that how

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you'd basically describe it yeah it's uh for us it ticks all our boxes and more it just keeps

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getting better it's savage it's just kind of savage island like the the mountains are just

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it's like that hawaii of europe type thing they go down um incredible uh world-class hiking uh

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stunning as you've seen all the videos um and semi-autonomous because it's it's quite away from

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portugal in the middle of the atlantic um it's still part of europe so uh and and the other thing

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i would say is um it you know life reflects back at what you put out right so um you know if people

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come here looking for something that they don't have um they're not going to find it anywhere you

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You know, I was like that for quite a while.

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I moved around the world.

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Like, where's this magic?

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Where's this perfect place?

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And I had to look at myself.

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I'm doing that right now, if I'm being honest.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And so when I came here, I started getting a little bit of the itchy feet a couple of years ago.

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And I said, you know, I can feel that urge to Costa Rica or Mauritius or what, you know, Costa Rica was or El Salvador.

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And then I had to really, you know, observe that behavior because there's nothing, there's no end of the rainbow.

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And since doing that, we, you know, there's so much, so much here and the people are so friendly and the weather's just so good.

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And it's part of Europe. It's crazy. You know, as in it's not so far from both our parents.

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So, yeah, yeah. We find that people are extremely friendly and helpful and they love children.

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And then we know a family who are leaving soon because they find the people here very unfriendly.

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And, you know, that's something that however you see the world comes from within.

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So for us, it's really great. And for the kids as well.

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Yeah, the nature is incredible.

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and I mean we've been we're at a point now where we have a piece of land where we're setting up a

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place to be and every time I go there I just love it more and more and it gives me things that I

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didn't even knew I was craving and missing I go to this land and it's quiet and there's nature

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around and I can be all by myself and it just feels right it feels good because I used to just

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always do do do do be with people have guests save for weeks and then another person and always doing And through Rob help as well I observed that behavior that never sitting still and never being alone And yeah this land it you know

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also shows me that it's so beautiful to just be, you know,

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a place to be and be alone and be in nature.

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And that's what we find that most people are looking for.

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And I think everybody needs it. Everybody who's living, you know,

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the fiat life some might might know others don't but it's just incredible this journey

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of learning you know less is more just go back to basics what you need is the sun and nature

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and the ocean and friends and you know community like-minded not like a hundred people or a thousand

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people but just like-minded and we have that we have the bitcoin community we have the

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unsegurling community we're also in the brazilian jiu-jitsu community um and another thing i like

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about this because many like some people they don't like islands because of this it's so small

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and they get island fever something i don't know you know i don't know what it is um but i like

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this it's it feels like a real community like people used to live um the same way like education

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used to be it used to be just community little village and you didn't know what was going on in

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the world you just knew what was going in your village and you did your part and your share and

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people worked from home and not you know sent the father away for eight hours a day

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and even though most Madeirians live the fiat life and do the nine to five jobs it just feels

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really nice especially because we have this um these communities here yeah i regarding the island

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fever you mentioned i grew up on an island and i feel like i was one of the rare kids who just

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really enjoyed it and thought it was super chill and cool most people were thinking like oh we need

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to like go to the city or we need to move away somewhere because it can be sort of isolating but

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what i'm noticing is all the people who say that when they're kids they go out to the city and then

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eventually it's just a matter of time before you just crave that island again just go back to where

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it's simple just like you said you have nature and good people and sunshine and good food you know

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that's really what you need as a human and no matter how far you you venture out of those

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essentials and go into the the fiat universe that you said you always get pulled back eventually

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It's just a matter of time.

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And I remember I was speaking to this doctor I knew in Barcelona and he was, I was telling him, you know, maybe Madeira or something.

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And he said, yeah, but you can't, but that's not real world.

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I remember.

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And I was like, what do you mean?

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And he said, well, you know, your kids, you know, university, they need to go to university.

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and they have you know so for him the real world was a city where their jobs are and everything

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and I was like oh that's so um he obviously believes that but that's again it's that

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fear mentality of you have to go and do and become the lawyer or the doctor and

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And I think he looked to me like I was completely crazy and that I would come around to it.

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But for me, I've been in the city.

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It's just crazy zombies on the underground, exhausted, drinking this cycle.

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And then finally you escape or you go and retire and then you die.

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I was like, no, no, no, no.

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We're not going to do that.

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And those quote-unquote fiat jobs you mentioned,

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like lawyer, hedge fund manager, financial engineer,

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all these things that people are aspiring to do now

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because that's where the money is.

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You never hear any of these educational systems telling people

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that motherhood and fatherhood are the most important jobs.

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That's always pushed completely out of the picture.

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and we're seeing this starting to manifest in people's mentality,

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how they're just not thinking about having children

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and really thinking long-term and building their legacy,

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building a family.

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And that's something we can definitely dive into fully at some point.

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But before that, I would love to just get the overall elevator pitch

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of what a place to be is.

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So if someone comes up and asks you,

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okay, so this project is out in nature with a bunch of kids and community,

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But what actually is this and how is it different from the, you know, currently modern traditional path of going to school for, you know, 20 years to start your life?

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Yeah, the place to be is an unschooling neighborhood for families who raise fiat-proof children.

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That's the elevator pitch.

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and it's different because it's a total freedom for everybody not just for their parents not just

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for the children it's a community where everybody does what they want as long as they don't hurt

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other people that's what I tell my children you can do whatever you want as long as you don't harm

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anybody and um it's different because they they love their life they love what they do

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they learn along the way and having a foundation like this not having to undo so many things like

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we have to do still still doing you know i'm 40 rob's 52 and we're still undoing the damage from

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our childhood and from school and all the conditioning our children and all the unschooled

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children um who have the foundation of freedom like uh imprinted into their foundation

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um of just knowing and like feeling that they can do whatever they want um it doesn't matter if

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you know they don't know how to read at the age of six seven eight nine ten or don't know how to

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do a certain thing because when they're 30 or 40 or even 50 like like us like we're learning new

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things now they know that whatever they want to do they can do it this is the um yeah we're kind

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of putting a lot of um effort and love and time into the foundation of our children um so that

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it's solid because if you see the foundation of the fiat people who grew up in the fiat world and

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stay in it it's very damaged it's not a good thing and they come up with little solutions on top of

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you know problems if the foundation is strong and healthy then you won't need to fix that many

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problems and um yeah talking about problems and problem solving uh that's the like the biggest

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skill of the children who grew up like this like we don't do much for our kids we never entertain

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them they just know you know what do they play all day they look for things to do their experiment

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and we're always around if they need help or have questions um yeah well i would say i come from

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all my family are teachers so i get uh the odd comment you know on when i'm sure someone's going

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to watch this on social media one of my family members and um what what we found and i was

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reticent about going forward with what i was the guy who was saying yeah but what if they don't

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learn to read you know what what if they're embarrassed what if they're humiliating they're

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like retarded um you know like and i mean that like bread are we going to retard the bread are

209
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we going to um and it's it's absolutely remarkable and it kind of shocks me every single day how

210
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advanced my children are i have people who've who've spoken to them they come up and say

211
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wow your daughter talks to me like um equal an equal and that is like remarkable so you have an

212
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eight-year-old girl who will talk to a 30-year-old woman or man as they are are an equal and my my

213
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:29,020
daughter is able to uh she's self-directed so that means every everything she enjoys doing

214
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she'll do and then through that she learns to problem solve so what will happen is she wants

215
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to send messages then she learns to read because she wants to not because she has to and whenever

216
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you force anything just as in in a free market you you create abnormalities so we just enhance

217
00:20:52,060 --> 00:20:59,100
this natural process we're there as enhancers and for this natural thing which is learning for

218
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children to learn and children learn if you force them to or not it's just you're learning they learn

219
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how to adapt to being forced and then passing the tests and exams they and it damages them for life

220
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:23,980
that fine calibration never happens and what what we find is you're going to have Pablo Fernandez

221
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who's a coder he he said you're going to have two types of kids and it's going to be these sort of

222
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advanced beings who are able to problem solve one and then you've got the other kids and we see and

223
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I'm not I don't want to sound judgmental it's just a system that centralized system of schooling

224
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they have to you see them in around here they walk in a line have to hold each other's hand

225
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you have to put your hand up if you want to go to the toilet so you've got these sort of um

226
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followers who never question anything they're told so the skill of questioning is gets to 18

227
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and then they are literally they don't have that ability and then you have our kids who question

228
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everything and and they question us and which is what you want you what we're doing is we're

229
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growing these little problem solvers who enjoy what they do so at the end what we want is our

230
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:28,400
children at the end to be able to problem solve and to enjoy what they do and if those two things

231
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are there uh you you know it's it's better to um a kid to graduate as a road sweeper than be

232
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neurotic what's a happy i read the it was as neil as neil raise a happy road sweeper than a neurotic

233
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lawyer or something i don't know yeah because i work with all the these billionaires or uh ceos

234
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doctors psychologists and everything they're uh they're completely bereft of any enjoyment

235
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and they they live a second-hand life it's mechanical and then they come to me when they're

236
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40 50 60 suicidal or they like I don enjoy anything You have to retrain them you have to melt the and um they so tightly wound in the hamster wheel and so the the it the value of

237
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being able to allow a child to through free market adapt and enjoy and find what she wants

238
00:23:28,981 --> 00:23:34,921
or what they want is the most valuable thing that we can spend our time doing and then if

239
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people want to join us then I think that's the most valuable thing for for a child yeah and on

240
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the other hand like you don't want to kind of retard them uh let's say mentally I'm just gonna

241
00:23:50,321 --> 00:23:57,781
use that word yeah um but I do want to retard them from growing up too quickly on the other hand

242
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because now with social media and in school with peer pressure,

243
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you just see the want to be on social media,

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the want to look sexy, to be slim, to I don't know what the boys want.

245
00:24:16,481 --> 00:24:24,381
But I'm just very aware we very much check on what they consume online.

246
00:24:24,381 --> 00:24:29,481
We try to teach them that we use social media instead of social media using us.

247
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That is something that I want for them, just a normal free childhood like I had mainly.

248
00:24:38,181 --> 00:24:45,921
Yeah, without this peer pressure and without being programmed by social media, just be as you are.

249
00:24:46,101 --> 00:24:46,681
And we see it.

250
00:24:46,941 --> 00:24:47,201
Yes.

251
00:24:47,201 --> 00:24:52,881
that was the only thing that we had a little bit of um we've had a lot of discussions about is

252
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allow them to be free but we don't put cocaine on the table because it's a very good drug it's

253
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you know it um and they're very young and we if if you start to observe what a lot of things even

254
00:25:07,121 --> 00:25:14,301
on netflix it's conditioning a certain behavior um and some of it's you know it's good but we

255
00:25:14,301 --> 00:25:20,541
we just want we don't want big corporations conditioning the children and unfortunately

256
00:25:20,541 --> 00:25:28,901
that means we limit uh screen time and what they watch or if we watch it together we we have a chat

257
00:25:28,901 --> 00:25:37,441
about it if we see there's like an important thing to know so we kind of we focus on um teaching

258
00:25:37,441 --> 00:25:42,901
first principles because then on top of that again like a strong foundation if you go to the bottom

259
00:25:42,901 --> 00:25:48,281
line the the principles then they will be able to apply them to anything they see they hear

260
00:25:48,281 --> 00:25:56,641
they do you know people they come across yeah not it's not out of fear it's just like uh explain

261
00:25:56,641 --> 00:26:03,721
like why does that woman dress in a bikini and singing and all the men you know and there's a

262
00:26:03,721 --> 00:26:09,721
devil in the background or whatever and we just explained right she's trying to get um clicks

263
00:26:09,721 --> 00:26:16,861
to enhance her business and she the only way she can do it is by wearing a bikini there are other

264
00:26:16,861 --> 00:26:23,941
ways to do this but you know so we try and be as as um honest and neutral as possible about it but

265
00:26:23,941 --> 00:26:31,581
these are the things you know you have to keep an eye on as well as give them uh organic food um

266
00:26:31,581 --> 00:26:38,821
you know so that they're consuming stuff that enhances their nature and not retards their nature

267
00:26:38,821 --> 00:26:46,041
so many tracks we could go through with this man my list of questions is rapidly growing so i hope

268
00:26:46,041 --> 00:26:52,621
your time is flexible on your schedule um one thing i want to just quickly start with that you

269
00:26:52,621 --> 00:26:57,941
mentioned earlier is just this word unschooling and i know most people are familiar with the word

270
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homeschooling are these synonymous or is there a difference how you define those words what does

271
00:27:03,201 --> 00:27:09,441
that mean? Yeah, I mean, there are, you know, a million different shades of homeschooling and

272
00:27:09,441 --> 00:27:16,861
unschooling. And every single family is different in the way they homeschool or unschool. So

273
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homeschooling, the term means that you follow a curriculum at home, you kind of replicate school

274
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at home. The more you let the child choose, the more it gets into unschooling, because unschooling

275
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means that you let the child lead the way you let the child follow her or his interests and you're

276
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just there to support you give them a lot of freedom like 100 freedom of choice of what to

277
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learn and how you're just there to to help and sometimes guide a little bit um but there is

278
00:27:50,741 --> 00:27:56,341
you know even if there are kids who love textbooks and sitting down and you know

279
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listening to somebody teaching something that doesn't mean it's homeschooling it's still

280
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answering because the child enjoys it and the person found their learning style and you just

281
00:28:08,881 --> 00:28:15,941
follow the the child's learning style in unschooling interesting so i i actually didn't

282
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know that so it's like even further on the spectrum of just giving more freedom to the

283
00:28:20,181 --> 00:28:24,461
kids to really be the decider of their own destiny and i think that's super cool and

284
00:28:24,461 --> 00:28:31,081
And one of the things that this is reminding me of is, I'm not sure if you know Alex Svesky or if you've read his work, but one of the –

285
00:28:31,081 --> 00:28:31,861
Yeah, we met him.

286
00:28:32,161 --> 00:28:32,821
Oh, cool.

287
00:28:33,321 --> 00:28:33,441
Yeah.

288
00:28:33,821 --> 00:28:34,581
Excellent, excellent.

289
00:28:34,661 --> 00:28:36,681
Because, yeah, I know he's kind of bounced around Latin America too.

290
00:28:36,681 --> 00:28:54,501
So one of the theories that he puts out there that I've increasingly become convinced is dialed is how this new generation of Bitcoin kids that are being born and raised by Bitcoin families is literally going to split off into a whole different species.

291
00:28:55,181 --> 00:28:55,481
Because –

292
00:28:55,481 --> 00:28:55,981
Yeah, species.

293
00:28:57,681 --> 00:29:00,721
Because all the Bitcoin stereotypes are involved here.

294
00:29:00,801 --> 00:29:01,921
They're eating tons of meat.

295
00:29:02,281 --> 00:29:04,081
They're getting lots of sunshine.

296
00:29:04,441 --> 00:29:05,221
They're out in nature.

297
00:29:05,221 --> 00:29:10,341
They're basically doing the opposite of everything that kids are told to in the government schooling system.

298
00:29:10,761 --> 00:29:18,581
And you can put on as much of a tinfoil hat as you want for why, like the exact opposite of all these very healthy human things are pushed onto them.

299
00:29:19,201 --> 00:29:20,481
What do you guys think about that?

300
00:29:20,541 --> 00:29:29,501
Do you see this pattern as well where like these kids being raised by Bitcoiners are just going to be like this superhuman, like unrecognizable based on the average human?

301
00:29:30,381 --> 00:29:31,681
I think so too.

302
00:29:31,981 --> 00:29:33,501
I don't know to which degree,

303
00:29:33,661 --> 00:29:36,221
but I can see now that our children

304
00:29:36,221 --> 00:29:39,461
prefer hanging out with unschooled children

305
00:29:39,461 --> 00:29:40,701
and Bitcoin children

306
00:29:40,701 --> 00:29:43,541
than I call it fiat children

307
00:29:43,541 --> 00:29:44,561
who go to school.

308
00:29:45,081 --> 00:29:45,481
Sorry.

309
00:29:46,081 --> 00:29:47,981
And we say that in the most loving way, Paul.

310
00:29:47,981 --> 00:29:49,201
Oh, yeah, yeah.

311
00:29:49,701 --> 00:29:52,681
They are sweet and we love them to bits

312
00:29:52,681 --> 00:29:54,241
and we are still good friends

313
00:29:54,241 --> 00:29:55,901
with all the people around the world

314
00:29:55,901 --> 00:29:58,221
whose kids go to school

315
00:29:58,221 --> 00:30:00,381
and who are not into Bitcoin or yet.

316
00:30:01,701 --> 00:30:05,241
But it's just our children also choosing.

317
00:30:05,581 --> 00:30:08,521
They have the freedom to play with who they want to play

318
00:30:08,521 --> 00:30:12,001
and how much time to spend with whoever they want.

319
00:30:14,141 --> 00:30:19,661
But we can see that they love to hang out with the unschooled kids.

320
00:30:20,021 --> 00:30:21,341
I mean, there isn't much time anyway.

321
00:30:21,761 --> 00:30:25,201
The kids, they come home at like five, sometimes six,

322
00:30:25,201 --> 00:30:26,401
and then they have homework.

323
00:30:26,401 --> 00:30:28,441
and usually we see them on the weekends.

324
00:30:30,061 --> 00:30:32,361
But yeah, it makes a difference.

325
00:30:32,361 --> 00:30:35,381
It is a different species.

326
00:30:35,901 --> 00:30:45,541
And our two daughters eat slightly differently with us,

327
00:30:45,681 --> 00:30:46,881
but they eat a lot of meat.

328
00:30:46,981 --> 00:30:48,201
It's an animal-based diet.

329
00:30:49,341 --> 00:30:54,821
And my eight-year-old is strong, ridiculously strong,

330
00:30:54,821 --> 00:30:56,141
to the point where I'm…

331
00:30:56,141 --> 00:30:56,661
She can lift me.

332
00:30:56,961 --> 00:30:58,001
Yeah, she can lift her.

333
00:30:58,101 --> 00:31:00,301
And she's very good at jujitsu.

334
00:31:02,721 --> 00:31:11,221
But, yeah, I think the, I know Bitcoiners who send their kids to school.

335
00:31:11,221 --> 00:31:24,441
So just so that we, and the Bitcoin father, let's say, oftentimes the father will probably have the kids out, but the mother keeps them in school.

336
00:31:24,561 --> 00:31:25,221
But not always.

337
00:31:26,141 --> 00:31:33,481
To be able to take kids out of school here is such a soul against the grain, especially in Madeira.

338
00:31:33,481 --> 00:31:40,121
So I understand that if the father at home is saying things like, look, you're in a system.

339
00:31:40,701 --> 00:31:43,781
This is how it works. Doesn't matter. Don't worry about the grades.

340
00:31:44,601 --> 00:31:48,281
You're good and constantly questioning and talking.

341
00:31:48,761 --> 00:31:55,001
So that's the main input is questioning everything and saying, look, the schooling says, don't worry about that.

342
00:31:55,001 --> 00:32:00,321
You don't need to know that date in history when the king got an arrow in his eye.

343
00:32:00,381 --> 00:32:01,941
I think that's the only thing I learned at school.

344
00:32:04,521 --> 00:32:12,721
But so on that, however someone wants to choose is their freedom, right?

345
00:32:13,041 --> 00:32:14,721
And they can send their kids to school.

346
00:32:15,281 --> 00:32:19,841
But if you put a kid and they're driven by what they enjoy,

347
00:32:19,841 --> 00:32:24,161
if you look actually at most Bitcoiner guys, like we have a lot of coders here,

348
00:32:24,161 --> 00:32:31,081
they love what they do they're buzzing they're like little kids these fully grown um coder

349
00:32:31,081 --> 00:32:36,261
on the spectrum types and they're oh my god i've been playing around with this all day and i play

350
00:32:36,261 --> 00:32:41,921
have you played around with it it's just little they're like five-year-olds but they're in a uh

351
00:32:41,921 --> 00:32:49,441
but they they just enjoy so much and they play and then our kids are doing that all day until

352
00:32:49,441 --> 00:32:57,881
there fall asleep at night and one of one of the boys here uh aj he's 13 and he's developing

353
00:32:57,881 --> 00:33:04,201
airplanes and he's coding them and his dad's you know he's got his dad talking about oh if we we

354
00:33:04,201 --> 00:33:12,581
set up lightning with the we can um with nostra we can start the car and shit and i'm just like

355
00:33:12,581 --> 00:33:21,581
oh my god i don't like crazy shit and it's like and the the aj's had that since he was zero and so

356
00:33:21,581 --> 00:33:28,241
i said what are you up to aj oh i'm um i i've managed to fit another world into minecraft and

357
00:33:28,241 --> 00:33:35,421
then i'm just gonna access that and i'm gonna fly my planes and develop i found a new way of

358
00:33:35,421 --> 00:33:39,421
developing a plane I built with a 3D printer.

359
00:33:40,181 --> 00:33:47,421
And it's like listening to a 30-year-old expert engineer,

360
00:33:48,241 --> 00:33:49,461
and he's 13.

361
00:33:50,581 --> 00:33:55,501
And then, so if our daughter, if Lima, she has a business now,

362
00:33:55,661 --> 00:33:59,101
she's set up a dog walking, she's eight.

363
00:33:59,381 --> 00:34:02,481
We helped her set up the EWU.

364
00:34:02,481 --> 00:34:05,281
I helped her a little bit to explain how to do it.

365
00:34:05,281 --> 00:34:05,921
It's so, so.

366
00:34:06,041 --> 00:34:07,161
She loves animals.

367
00:34:07,501 --> 00:34:10,981
And so she's got her first gig coming up, like paid.

368
00:34:11,641 --> 00:34:16,701
And so she has a dog walking thing at eight and she's going to accept Bitcoin.

369
00:34:17,261 --> 00:34:18,861
And she has a wallet.

370
00:34:19,161 --> 00:34:21,521
And so she enjoys that.

371
00:34:21,521 --> 00:34:29,061
And through enjoying it, she's learning to read because she wants to, because she's like, has to.

372
00:34:29,061 --> 00:34:31,461
I always say this

373
00:34:31,461 --> 00:34:33,441
when you're learning

374
00:34:33,441 --> 00:34:35,721
balance, like if you put

375
00:34:35,721 --> 00:34:37,601
a rope on the ground

376
00:34:37,601 --> 00:34:38,981
and you practice

377
00:34:38,981 --> 00:34:41,721
balance, you know, walking on a rope

378
00:34:41,721 --> 00:34:53,901
you don actually learn anything because there no incentive to not fall right But when you put it above the ground you have to And the same goes if you go to school and someone says you have to learn that

379
00:34:54,281 --> 00:34:57,661
you learn it to a point, but it doesn't go into your cells.

380
00:34:59,141 --> 00:35:03,381
But if my daughter's running a business and people are giving her money,

381
00:35:03,381 --> 00:35:06,381
she is learning...

382
00:35:06,381 --> 00:35:07,801
So many things.

383
00:35:07,801 --> 00:35:14,081
like i'm just and she's learning things that we're not even aware of because we have a very

384
00:35:14,081 --> 00:35:19,381
still like you know we were like this coming out of school then we'll be here now we're there

385
00:35:19,381 --> 00:35:26,441
but still we have a big box around our head um and she is completely open she sees things

386
00:35:26,441 --> 00:35:31,901
differently than we do uh what goes on in her head i have no idea you know she just learns

387
00:35:31,901 --> 00:35:37,081
constantly and the good thing is i don't need to be there like a teacher looking okay she's

388
00:35:37,081 --> 00:35:45,381
learning no lessons biology and maths and uh you know science and social skills i never take a note

389
00:35:45,381 --> 00:35:51,221
in that moment when i see her doing something um i'm like amazing i love it this it's school would

390
00:35:51,221 --> 00:35:58,601
be like this subject but it doesn't matter yeah there was a girl you told me and again with all

391
00:35:58,601 --> 00:36:05,901
respect someone was in the schooling system and they were showing you uh no no yeah some pictures

392
00:36:05,901 --> 00:36:10,721
and the teacher had written satisfactory.

393
00:36:11,961 --> 00:36:12,421
Sufficient.

394
00:36:12,581 --> 00:36:13,021
Sufficient.

395
00:36:13,221 --> 00:36:13,941
Yeah, I was there.

396
00:36:14,361 --> 00:36:15,661
Just imagine that.

397
00:36:15,661 --> 00:36:17,641
I went to the home and she showed me really proud.

398
00:36:17,741 --> 00:36:18,661
Look what I did.

399
00:36:19,081 --> 00:36:20,381
She's eight years old.

400
00:36:20,421 --> 00:36:23,121
So there was this picture that she had to color in.

401
00:36:23,261 --> 00:36:25,421
And look, I didn't draw outside the lines.

402
00:36:25,601 --> 00:36:28,021
I drew in and it says here I'm sufficient.

403
00:36:28,901 --> 00:36:31,821
And yeah, but her parents are very loving.

404
00:36:32,141 --> 00:36:32,441
No, no, no.

405
00:36:32,521 --> 00:36:33,961
They totally understand.

406
00:36:33,961 --> 00:36:37,581
they praise us for what we do.

407
00:36:37,701 --> 00:36:38,721
They love what we do.

408
00:36:38,861 --> 00:36:40,221
And I love the whole family.

409
00:36:41,461 --> 00:36:42,901
It was just like this.

410
00:36:43,121 --> 00:36:46,481
You can see the system in the detail of, you know,

411
00:36:46,521 --> 00:36:47,981
don't draw out of the lines.

412
00:36:47,981 --> 00:36:50,061
Don't step outside the lines.

413
00:36:50,281 --> 00:36:51,841
Don't do anything outside the box.

414
00:36:53,041 --> 00:36:57,021
You know, you have to rely on the teacher to tell you

415
00:36:57,021 --> 00:36:58,721
if you're sufficient or not.

416
00:36:59,301 --> 00:37:02,781
And then this unschooling boy came over.

417
00:37:02,781 --> 00:37:09,641
We looked after him in the afternoon and, you know, he said, I want to, can you draw me a Lamborghini or something?

418
00:37:10,001 --> 00:37:11,241
I went to the print store.

419
00:37:11,741 --> 00:37:14,761
I printed him a car and he colored it in.

420
00:37:15,401 --> 00:37:17,021
I need to find, I need to show you.

421
00:37:18,341 --> 00:37:23,961
He drew absolutely outside the lines, but it looks like an artist did it.

422
00:37:24,001 --> 00:37:25,961
I absolutely love this drawing.

423
00:37:26,281 --> 00:37:29,221
When Rob's going to speak next, I'm going to look for it.

424
00:37:29,221 --> 00:37:34,241
I want you guys to see it because there is this perfect picture of this girl

425
00:37:34,241 --> 00:37:37,481
drawing inside the lines because that's what she was supposed to do.

426
00:37:37,741 --> 00:37:40,701
And, you know, usually kids like to do that anyway,

427
00:37:40,861 --> 00:37:41,981
whether they're told or not.

428
00:37:43,241 --> 00:37:44,461
And then on the other hand,

429
00:37:44,481 --> 00:37:48,981
this is unschooled boy with this amazing picture of drawing something that he

430
00:37:48,981 --> 00:37:50,681
loves. He chose, you know, he said,

431
00:37:50,681 --> 00:37:54,541
I think the conditioning is stay inside the lines.

432
00:37:55,621 --> 00:37:55,841
Yes.

433
00:37:56,021 --> 00:37:56,861
That's the,

434
00:37:56,861 --> 00:38:01,501
It's so metaphorical in so many ways of just like stay inside the lines.

435
00:38:01,501 --> 00:38:07,361
It's kind of sad and brutal to take your snuff.

436
00:38:07,601 --> 00:38:13,921
In a way, you're snuffing the life out that the ability to go outside the lines.

437
00:38:13,921 --> 00:38:14,761
That's life.

438
00:38:15,001 --> 00:38:18,661
It's to find out what you enjoy and then do what you enjoy.

439
00:38:18,741 --> 00:38:25,581
And if that means you're a road sweeper, but then comes in the Bitcoin angle is with inflation.

440
00:38:25,581 --> 00:38:32,181
that that is no you can't live as a road sweeper but you know that's why we bitcoin is so that we

441
00:38:32,181 --> 00:38:39,041
we can you know we're putting all our energy into this new system which is uh fair for all

442
00:38:39,041 --> 00:38:46,821
yeah and one of the things you also mentioned earlier is just this dichotomy between learning

443
00:38:46,821 --> 00:38:53,101
because you have to versus learning because you want to and this is something that so many people

444
00:38:53,101 --> 00:38:59,861
I know who went through the conventional educational system are realizing is in myself

445
00:38:59,861 --> 00:39:05,601
included, for example, just reading books. I mean, I did not like reading books back when I was a

446
00:39:05,601 --> 00:39:12,321
student because they make us do it. I think it's just so ingrained in our soul that when someone

447
00:39:12,321 --> 00:39:17,361
is saying like, you have to do this, we're going to give you a grade and say sufficient is, you

448
00:39:17,361 --> 00:39:25,121
know you're just that word is so hilarious yeah it's forced yeah i go into spat on twitter when

449
00:39:25,121 --> 00:39:30,081
someone was saying something i said well you're forced you're forcing your children's school

450
00:39:30,081 --> 00:39:37,201
they weren't forced i said ask them ask them do they want to get out of bed in the morning right

451
00:39:37,201 --> 00:39:45,461
and um yeah my mom last time she came over um we had this conversation because she is very worried

452
00:39:45,461 --> 00:39:51,401
about our girls ending up as cleaners because they're never going to learn how to read and write

453
00:39:51,401 --> 00:39:58,021
and then I told her like I explained the the problem with the schools and I explained about

454
00:39:58,021 --> 00:40:04,441
my experience and I said I hated school from the first day till the last I absolutely hated and she

455
00:40:04,441 --> 00:40:11,881
was like really like she never knew it was just you know get up go to school at some point I didn't

456
00:40:11,881 --> 00:40:21,961
you know say a word just did as I was told and had bad grades but she never knew that I hated

457
00:40:21,961 --> 00:40:30,901
school it was a total surprise to her and yeah this disconnect like we lived together she sent

458
00:40:30,901 --> 00:40:35,981
me there every day and she didn't know I hated it and that's another thing I wanted to add to earlier

459
00:40:35,981 --> 00:40:41,521
the amount of time we spent together as a family the amount of love and attention they get from us

460
00:40:41,521 --> 00:40:48,741
you know multiply that or it's a compound effect the freedom they get the love they get their

461
00:40:48,741 --> 00:40:58,161
attention they get that is you know compounding if you then look at the kids when they're 18 20 30

462
00:40:58,161 --> 00:41:03,781
and then you look at the kids who spend like 30 minutes a day with the parents like

463
00:41:03,781 --> 00:41:09,681
really doing something together because there is no time for them to really spend

464
00:41:09,681 --> 00:41:11,161
quality time together.

465
00:41:11,421 --> 00:41:12,241
And the parents were exhausted.

466
00:41:12,661 --> 00:41:12,981
Yes.

467
00:41:13,461 --> 00:41:15,901
After work, everybody's

468
00:41:15,901 --> 00:41:19,161
tired and probably in a bad mood

469
00:41:19,161 --> 00:41:20,881
because they had a shit day at a place

470
00:41:20,881 --> 00:41:22,261
they didn't want to be.

471
00:41:22,821 --> 00:41:24,741
And then they spend 30 minutes together

472
00:41:24,741 --> 00:41:26,321
and maybe they

473
00:41:26,321 --> 00:41:28,701
try to bond

474
00:41:28,701 --> 00:41:30,781
because they know, I only have these

475
00:41:30,781 --> 00:41:33,021
30 minutes. Now after that, it's dinner

476
00:41:33,021 --> 00:41:34,841
and shower and bed.

477
00:41:36,781 --> 00:41:36,941
Yeah.

478
00:41:37,241 --> 00:41:39,481
I think if you want...

479
00:41:39,681 --> 00:41:45,581
Ben, do you have kids? I don't know. Still a single guy, but always dreaming about it for sure.

480
00:41:45,681 --> 00:41:48,621
You want your kids to be happy, right? Absolutely.

481
00:41:49,121 --> 00:41:55,481
Or would you want them to be a doctor, but not happy? No, absolutely not.

482
00:41:56,981 --> 00:42:03,741
And also when you're a father, Ben, and if you have a daughter, but even if you have a boy,

483
00:42:03,741 --> 00:42:13,361
You want them to get into a relationship that is the most important investment of their life and them to be happy.

484
00:42:13,921 --> 00:42:18,541
And that you have to, we talk about fear-proofing or future-proofing.

485
00:42:18,621 --> 00:42:19,881
We're future-proofing our kids.

486
00:42:20,841 --> 00:42:31,361
If we show, if we, the more connection we have with our kids and as a family is what they will have when they're older, it is as simple as that.

487
00:42:31,361 --> 00:42:44,701
So if you're always away from the family, if the father's always working, and you have a daughter, she will marry a man who is as disconnected.

488
00:42:45,101 --> 00:42:46,661
It's an inevitability.

489
00:42:47,181 --> 00:42:49,701
She may actually go, you know what, I'm not going to choose.

490
00:42:50,121 --> 00:42:53,521
I'm going to choose a man who I think is going to be there.

491
00:42:53,641 --> 00:42:59,141
It's an inevitability based on almost like a deep frequency.

492
00:42:59,141 --> 00:42:59,941
It's not woo-woo.

493
00:42:59,941 --> 00:43:02,781
It's just, I've seen it for decades.

494
00:43:03,201 --> 00:43:07,621
You will always attract the amount of disconnect that you experienced as a child.

495
00:43:08,261 --> 00:43:10,401
So I think that's another thing.

496
00:43:11,941 --> 00:43:18,321
Maybe it's a side of unschooling is we are with our children all the time.

497
00:43:18,901 --> 00:43:20,761
And we really enjoy it.

498
00:43:21,061 --> 00:43:23,121
And some people say, I don't know how you do it.

499
00:43:23,221 --> 00:43:27,401
But that's usually someone who had a disconnected childhood themselves.

500
00:43:27,401 --> 00:43:30,281
if you don't want to be with your kids

501
00:43:30,281 --> 00:43:32,121
there's something wrong

502
00:43:32,121 --> 00:43:34,941
and I'm not saying that in a judgmental way

503
00:43:34,941 --> 00:43:36,921
I'm saying that the parents

504
00:43:36,921 --> 00:43:38,241
if you don't want to be with your kids

505
00:43:38,241 --> 00:43:39,621
you have to do that work

506
00:43:39,621 --> 00:43:42,381
there's trauma, there is a wound inside

507
00:43:42,381 --> 00:43:44,521
because it's not normal

508
00:43:44,521 --> 00:43:45,301
not to want to be with your kids

509
00:43:45,301 --> 00:43:46,201
you're not free

510
00:43:46,201 --> 00:43:50,461
that's another aspect of a place to be

511
00:43:50,461 --> 00:43:52,561
that the parents

512
00:43:52,561 --> 00:43:53,901
look within

513
00:43:53,901 --> 00:43:55,881
they work on this conditioning

514
00:43:55,881 --> 00:44:01,901
and the beliefs we don't we don't push that nothing is forced at a place to be

515
00:44:01,901 --> 00:44:07,801
i'm just saying it's a yeah we we i talk about it a lot yeah talk about it and big if you're a

516
00:44:07,801 --> 00:44:14,301
bitcoiner you know proof of work and taking responsibility for your own keys to be free

517
00:44:14,301 --> 00:44:20,481
and sovereign and so but then if you really look you're going to see that your behavior controls

518
00:44:20,481 --> 00:44:27,461
you and so if you want to be free and you want your kids to be free that's the red pill to the

519
00:44:27,461 --> 00:44:34,061
orange pill right so we bring it up it's not something we just um that's what we do we want

520
00:44:34,061 --> 00:44:41,381
to be free not yeah and so there are bitcoiners who are not free so i think um yeah but if i you

521
00:44:41,381 --> 00:44:48,061
know imagine my our children growing up in uh in a community where they're mainly bitcoiners

522
00:44:48,061 --> 00:44:54,861
mainly unschoolers you know freedom-minded people that is going to condition them as well so

523
00:44:54,861 --> 00:45:00,801
of course and yeah they're choosing these kids as well but of course I prefer them being surrounded

524
00:45:00,801 --> 00:45:06,961
by those people than lots of fiat people that's another reason why we don't send them to school

525
00:45:06,961 --> 00:45:13,561
I saw this video the other day I couldn't find it again the guy was interviewed and

526
00:45:13,561 --> 00:45:21,661
he said I don't want my children to socialize and the guy said you don't I said no I don't

527
00:45:21,661 --> 00:45:29,381
want them to socialize with these effing idiots and he had a point because if your child spends

528
00:45:29,381 --> 00:45:36,301
most of you know their time with fiat children of fiat teachers and fiat parents then they're

529
00:45:36,301 --> 00:45:42,621
going to it's going to be so much harder to um have them them to be free thinkers

530
00:45:42,621 --> 00:45:50,421
and questioning than yeah having them unschooled just and that's an important thing for like

531
00:45:50,421 --> 00:45:56,081
current and future parents to understand is that you know this is has to be the most common

532
00:45:56,081 --> 00:46:02,521
you know uh a point that you hear from the skeptics to say oh like you know if if we take

533
00:46:02,521 --> 00:46:05,841
our kids out of school then they won't have any friends that's where all the people are that's how

534
00:46:05,841 --> 00:46:07,741
they like meet people and make all these friends.

535
00:46:08,081 --> 00:46:09,121
But like you said,

536
00:46:09,161 --> 00:46:11,761
it's important to understand what,

537
00:46:11,861 --> 00:46:15,781
what those people are all indoctrinated with and what they,

538
00:46:15,941 --> 00:46:19,781
what track they are going to be pushing your child toward just by being

539
00:46:19,781 --> 00:46:21,621
around them and being associated with them.

540
00:46:21,621 --> 00:46:22,601
And it's unfortunate.

541
00:46:22,642 --> 00:46:28,782
reality that we have to really think about, you know, what is the upbringing of most kids right

542
00:46:28,782 --> 00:46:34,322
now? What is the design of the curriculums in school right now? These things are all negative

543
00:46:34,322 --> 00:46:40,362
forces. So just the fact that there are human bodies there for your child to, you know, talk to

544
00:46:40,362 --> 00:46:44,502
doesn't mean it's going to be a positive overall experience for them. And this is why you guys have

545
00:46:44,502 --> 00:46:50,022
a great blending of not doing this, you know, quote unquote homeschooling, where it's just like

546
00:46:50,022 --> 00:46:54,702
you're in a house and you kind of have it more private. You have like an open community of all

547
00:46:54,702 --> 00:46:59,542
these families doing this together. So you're getting the best of both worlds, the social aspect

548
00:46:59,542 --> 00:47:05,342
and the more ability to control aspect, which you mentioned that you guys are always around,

549
00:47:05,462 --> 00:47:09,502
but it's also an important distinction that you're not around there, like you said earlier,

550
00:47:09,502 --> 00:47:16,082
to like tell them what to do. You're acting more as a guardrail and maybe like just a support role

551
00:47:16,082 --> 00:47:19,982
to help them achieve these things that they naturally come to do.

552
00:47:20,562 --> 00:47:22,102
It's counterintuitive.

553
00:47:22,542 --> 00:47:27,202
The less you interfere, the more they learn,

554
00:47:27,362 --> 00:47:29,522
and the better they become problem solvers.

555
00:47:29,702 --> 00:47:31,202
You don't have to tell them all the time,

556
00:47:31,322 --> 00:47:33,002
this works like that and that works like this.

557
00:47:33,922 --> 00:47:37,582
For eight years, I've been reading about unschooling and learning

558
00:47:37,582 --> 00:47:39,702
and psychology and gentle parenting.

559
00:47:40,522 --> 00:47:42,262
And there are so many studies.

560
00:47:42,262 --> 00:47:52,562
One, for example, they gave two groups of little babies, like let's say a year, two years old, or like under two years old.

561
00:47:53,662 --> 00:47:56,342
One group gave the child an object.

562
00:47:57,062 --> 00:48:00,942
The other group, they gave him the object and explained how it works.

563
00:48:01,362 --> 00:48:09,422
So the babies who got the object and were explained how it worked, they played with it like 10 seconds and they put it away.

564
00:48:09,422 --> 00:48:14,042
the kids who weren't told you know what it's there for how it works they played with it

565
00:48:14,042 --> 00:48:19,362
like way longer and they found different things to do with it so even if you think you're teaching

566
00:48:19,362 --> 00:48:24,562
your child something look this is how you open the bottle or look this is how this works you

567
00:48:24,562 --> 00:48:29,582
might think ah good i'm i taught my child how to do this and now my child knows something else like

568
00:48:29,582 --> 00:48:35,222
tick it off the box but no you're limiting the learning potential when you do telling them

569
00:48:35,222 --> 00:48:41,762
something so I'm always there but I'm never interfering unless they call me because like

570
00:48:41,762 --> 00:48:48,242
my kids they argue they argue with their friends they're sometimes argue with other adults like

571
00:48:48,242 --> 00:48:54,442
other older kids or adults and unless they call me over or I see really like okay they need a

572
00:48:54,442 --> 00:49:00,082
little bit of help now I'm not moving like they work out their problems by themselves and sometimes

573
00:49:00,082 --> 00:49:04,442
they scream and sometimes they say I'm never gonna be I'm not your best friend anymore or

574
00:49:04,442 --> 00:49:11,662
i hate you or something it's fine uh then they go back together and then they work it out yeah

575
00:49:11,662 --> 00:49:18,442
every time these these are what we're kind of skimming over there's real depth in that like

576
00:49:18,442 --> 00:49:24,442
when when you see it play out the kids are and then you see a helicopter parent come in

577
00:49:24,442 --> 00:49:32,002
them it comes in and they problem solve it for them if if you step back and sometimes i'm like

578
00:49:32,002 --> 00:49:37,702
I'm going in. And then you will be like, don't go in. And I watch and they resolve it. And then

579
00:49:37,702 --> 00:49:41,302
I'm like, Oh, my God, I didn't have to do anything. And they resolved it themselves.

580
00:49:42,642 --> 00:49:47,442
So there's real nuance in there, because these are small things you don't think are important,

581
00:49:47,442 --> 00:49:52,742
but they accumulate over time. The other thing socializing, if you force kids together,

582
00:49:52,742 --> 00:50:02,682
you're forcing them to uh it's almost like a type of social like a de-social those de-socializing

583
00:50:02,682 --> 00:50:13,122
skill it's you have to get by and there's bullies and bitchiness and this um it all the trauma that

584
00:50:13,122 --> 00:50:18,782
sort of plays out through the parents comes into the kids and so our daughter loves listening to

585
00:50:18,782 --> 00:50:26,902
Roald Dahl, Famous Five, or The Secret Seven, or she listens to a lot of books. And there's always

586
00:50:26,902 --> 00:50:33,122
a bitchy girls fighting. And then there's a bully and the teachers are nasty. I'm like, where is

587
00:50:33,122 --> 00:50:41,842
this reality? But it's school. I had it. I was a bit of a jock. So I got by. I was more, I suppose,

588
00:50:41,842 --> 00:50:48,542
on the bully side. And then there was a kid at the front who couldn't fit in. And it was

589
00:50:48,542 --> 00:50:55,402
horrendous for them. And so you put your kids through this, you survive it. And you survive it

590
00:50:55,402 --> 00:51:02,862
with all these sort of conflict, manipulating skills, and they come out the other end, and you

591
00:51:02,862 --> 00:51:10,162
have that conditioned human for that system, and that system plays out. But if you don't put them

592
00:51:10,162 --> 00:51:18,282
in the kids in there, you have this kid that is absolutely remarkable. They don't bitch and fight,

593
00:51:18,282 --> 00:51:23,862
They all get on, all age groups, because they're never segregated until you put a kid in from school.

594
00:51:24,562 --> 00:51:27,602
And then you see them, they'll go, don't talk to her.

595
00:51:28,182 --> 00:51:29,302
Yeah, I don't want to play with her.

596
00:51:29,362 --> 00:51:30,042
Don't talk to her.

597
00:51:30,262 --> 00:51:36,282
And you get this sort of polluting aspect to this natural balance.

598
00:51:37,222 --> 00:51:46,202
Like Cesar Millan, when he has his dogs, right, you put them all together and they manage things out as a group.

599
00:51:46,202 --> 00:51:55,882
And then you add the traumatized dog in and they sort of make it sort of balance it out, right?

600
00:51:56,062 --> 00:51:57,862
So that's what we found.

601
00:51:58,162 --> 00:52:14,182
And just on the other thing I was going to say with the learning, with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, I was finding that with the class I went to, the teacher who's a lovely guy and passionate and caring, that he would say, okay, we're going to do this move.

602
00:52:14,182 --> 00:52:15,842
And then he explains it.

603
00:52:16,122 --> 00:52:19,022
Do you do this and then this and then this and then this?

604
00:52:19,382 --> 00:52:20,262
Now you copy.

605
00:52:20,882 --> 00:52:23,562
And so there's this memorization that you have to do.

606
00:52:23,742 --> 00:52:25,922
And there's no problem solving.

607
00:52:26,242 --> 00:52:31,322
And we get to the end of the class after he's added another couple of really complex moves.

608
00:52:31,542 --> 00:52:33,382
And everyone's looking at each other.

609
00:52:33,502 --> 00:52:37,222
And then they do what they've always done, which is just the move.

610
00:52:37,342 --> 00:52:40,022
They have two moves that they do and everyone just fights.

611
00:52:40,022 --> 00:52:42,922
but if you look at say

612
00:52:42,922 --> 00:52:47,022
what's the

613
00:52:47,022 --> 00:52:48,562
no no no

614
00:52:48,562 --> 00:52:50,402
definitely not him

615
00:52:50,402 --> 00:52:51,762
there's this guy that does

616
00:52:51,762 --> 00:52:52,782
it's called something like

617
00:52:52,782 --> 00:52:54,542
organic Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

618
00:52:54,542 --> 00:52:55,182
there's a

619
00:52:55,182 --> 00:52:56,602
there's a word

620
00:52:56,602 --> 00:52:57,362
it'll come to me

621
00:52:57,362 --> 00:52:57,842
but

622
00:52:57,842 --> 00:52:59,982
what he'll do is

623
00:52:59,982 --> 00:53:01,202
he'll put you in a position

624
00:53:01,202 --> 00:53:01,902
in Jiu Jitsu

625
00:53:01,902 --> 00:53:03,142
and then go

626
00:53:03,142 --> 00:53:03,562
okay

627
00:53:03,562 --> 00:53:04,982
these are the sort of

628
00:53:04,982 --> 00:53:05,542
rules

629
00:53:05,542 --> 00:53:06,602
you've got to try and

630
00:53:06,602 --> 00:53:08,122
put your elbows on the floor

631
00:53:08,122 --> 00:53:08,962
and the other person's

632
00:53:08,962 --> 00:53:09,622
got to stop you

633
00:53:09,622 --> 00:53:15,582
and you're playing and it's exhausting and you're but you're also you're actually learning that you

634
00:53:15,582 --> 00:53:22,122
have to put hooks under to stop them from putting their so you're through play and problem solving

635
00:53:22,122 --> 00:53:26,922
you're it doesn't look like you're learning anything but you learn everything and that's

636
00:53:26,922 --> 00:53:36,702
how i learn now and i you can learn more in one session in in months right you through rope sort

637
00:53:36,702 --> 00:53:41,622
of like this memorization that's the schooling thing so when our children are playing they're

638
00:53:41,622 --> 00:53:46,742
learning everything because they're enjoying it and they're using their whole all their senses

639
00:53:46,742 --> 00:53:54,182
yeah yeah whenever i see them whatever they do i always think they're learning ecological whatever

640
00:53:54,182 --> 00:53:59,182
they do whether they play together on their own if they you know having arguments if they have to

641
00:53:59,182 --> 00:54:05,122
deal with with a problem i always think they're learning you know all good i don't need to do

642
00:54:05,122 --> 00:54:11,682
anything so we we really it's easy we don't do anything yes you know that sounds it's like

643
00:54:11,682 --> 00:54:18,742
stacking it like just stacks that so we just allow and then people like yeah but i don't have to learn

644
00:54:18,742 --> 00:54:24,642
and when do you sit down with them and how do you teach this and you know how to deal with that and

645
00:54:24,642 --> 00:54:30,302
i'm just there doing my thing and sometimes we're doing it together sometimes uh they come with me

646
00:54:30,302 --> 00:54:33,602
sometimes they stay with Rob, sometimes they stay with their friends, sometimes, you know,

647
00:54:33,822 --> 00:54:40,582
it's just, I just know they're learning whatever they're doing, because no one's there telling them

648
00:54:40,582 --> 00:54:48,282
do this now, or don't do that, and I'm learning a lot from them, like Lima, she likes to say,

649
00:54:48,622 --> 00:54:52,962
she likes to ask, you know, can I do this, can I do that, and sometimes she asks me, can you ask him,

650
00:54:53,002 --> 00:54:56,982
because they don't only speak Portuguese, and she doesn't speak Portuguese yet, can you ask him if

651
00:54:56,982 --> 00:55:01,682
we can do this can we go into a dog shelter for example once a week to walk their shelter dogs and

652
00:55:01,682 --> 00:55:09,222
play with the cats um or to a park where there are other animals and then she asked me can you

653
00:55:09,222 --> 00:55:15,762
ask him if i can go in with the dog and she's just lots of questions and i inside i'm so programmed

654
00:55:15,762 --> 00:55:23,202
to like don't even ask if i'm so embarrassed just of thinking of going there and asking him and he's

655
00:55:23,202 --> 00:55:29,162
gonna give me a look and say of course not what are you thinking lady and i go there and every time

656
00:55:29,162 --> 00:55:35,202
they say yes and now when she knows this person speaks english or she tries out a bit of portuguese

657
00:55:35,202 --> 00:55:40,942
she asks him can i do this can i do this and 99 of the time the people say yes where i'm thinking

658
00:55:40,942 --> 00:55:46,702
they're never gonna say yes so i'm yeah you know whenever she asks me i feel uncomfortable i just

659
00:55:46,702 --> 00:55:56,282
look at this feeling this this discomfort um to you know go through it and then just let it go

660
00:55:56,282 --> 00:56:02,702
to let go forever at some point and then i just ask the person and again most of the time they

661
00:56:02,702 --> 00:56:08,662
say yes that's what i'm learning just ask if you don't ask you don't or they use ai they

662
00:56:08,662 --> 00:56:15,922
they can use ai a lot so they ask ask questions yeah so that that's also useful

663
00:56:16,822 --> 00:56:21,022
I'd love to touch more on the subject of these fighting classes.

664
00:56:21,022 --> 00:56:23,842
Like you talked about Brazilian jiu-jitsu is big over there.

665
00:56:23,842 --> 00:56:29,602
And I've personally been just getting much more into the MMA and UFC interest,

666
00:56:29,602 --> 00:56:33,482
just watching it on TV, taking some boxing classes when I was in Argentina.

667
00:56:33,962 --> 00:56:37,982
And the more I spend time watching it and doing it,

668
00:56:38,002 --> 00:56:42,722
the more I think that this is a really great skill that everyone should be looking to do,

669
00:56:42,802 --> 00:56:44,462
learn some sort of fight skills.

670
00:56:44,462 --> 00:56:52,082
and I'd love to hear your take on that specifically for younger folks and kids how you've seen that

671
00:56:52,082 --> 00:56:56,202
you already mentioned how it's like just a great brain exercise at the very least it makes you

672
00:56:56,202 --> 00:57:01,282
think about all these things it's great physical exercise obviously but how have you seen that

673
00:57:01,282 --> 00:57:10,142
change children and how they operate and view the world it's a great question I have to be

674
00:57:10,142 --> 00:57:17,162
with our kids we never force them to do anything so we'll say hey do you want to

675
00:57:17,162 --> 00:57:24,102
go and do the brazilian jiu-jitsu class no so whenever we say to lima do you want to learn this

676
00:57:24,102 --> 00:57:29,502
no um and maybe the next day she'll learn it herself she did that with swimming do you want

677
00:57:29,502 --> 00:57:35,542
me to teach her to swim no next day she swam so kids are incredible they don't like being told

678
00:57:35,542 --> 00:57:37,622
what to do. Yeah, especially Lima. She's

679
00:57:37,622 --> 00:57:39,582
very much like, you try and teach

680
00:57:39,582 --> 00:57:41,602
her something? No, I didn't

681
00:57:41,602 --> 00:57:42,842
ask for that. Stop it.

682
00:57:43,362 --> 00:57:44,302
She got that from you.

683
00:57:45,982 --> 00:57:47,522
Yeah, and Ben, with the

684
00:57:47,522 --> 00:57:49,722
jiu-jitsu, so it's ecological coaching.

685
00:57:50,822 --> 00:57:50,962
Okay.

686
00:57:52,222 --> 00:58:05,975
And what I noticed is when I rolling and playing with the kids you know rough and tumble or whatever you want to call it like they jump on me And Lima started she pretends she a tiger or something

687
00:58:06,095 --> 00:58:07,256
She starts biting me.

688
00:58:07,736 --> 00:58:08,996
So I'm like, holy shit.

689
00:58:09,715 --> 00:58:11,936
And she goes, you're not allowed to tickle me.

690
00:58:12,056 --> 00:58:12,215
Okay.

691
00:58:12,676 --> 00:58:18,335
And I'm not allowed to put a lock on her or choke her or anything.

692
00:58:18,595 --> 00:58:19,616
So she attacks me.

693
00:58:19,616 --> 00:58:25,395
And what the rules, it is like ecological because all I can do is push her away.

694
00:58:25,856 --> 00:58:29,376
So what happens is I push her head and she spins.

695
00:58:29,756 --> 00:58:31,575
So I'm not teaching her anything.

696
00:58:31,816 --> 00:58:37,636
And she's doing, I'm like, oh, shit, I need to switch on now because she's going to bite me.

697
00:58:38,236 --> 00:58:45,056
And what I found, okay, I block her foot and she spins in a full, what do you call it?

698
00:58:45,056 --> 00:58:51,856
you know where her head, her legs are over her head and she spins and she flips. And I'm like,

699
00:58:52,296 --> 00:58:58,975
oh, I said, where did you learn that? She goes, and she's laughing. But she's been watching us do

700
00:58:58,975 --> 00:59:06,856
jujitsu. She's absorbing it. It's natural. And so we fight. And what happens is I put a leverage

701
00:59:06,856 --> 00:59:14,236
something. She unlevers it. She's worked. I don't have to tell her. Maybe if she puts a lock on or

702
00:59:14,236 --> 00:59:19,996
something and she doesn't quite get it I'll say oh have you noticed if you do that or this or this

703
00:59:19,996 --> 00:59:27,535
and she oh yeah well I'm like oh my god you really put it and she's like ah so um we don't force them

704
00:59:27,535 --> 00:59:33,796
but they're we we if we're doing jiu-jitsu at home they're around they're watching and then they jump

705
00:59:33,796 --> 00:59:40,736
in but we're not doing it so that I'm not competitive dad sometimes I go oh I wish I could

706
00:59:40,736 --> 00:59:46,876
oh if she's so strong and good i wish she would be she'd be a champion she could be pro one day

707
00:59:46,876 --> 00:59:54,655
but then i watch my ego because that's for me like what if she doesn't become ever do jujitsu

708
00:59:54,655 --> 01:00:00,455
again that's fine it's whatever she wants if i love her i accept her it's nothing and i'm not

709
01:00:00,455 --> 01:00:06,796
pushing or forcing her to do anything but if she sees us doing jujitsu by the way do i think it's

710
01:00:06,796 --> 01:00:14,516
good for women to learn jiu-jitsu 100 and speaking to you know very good mixed martial artists

711
01:00:14,516 --> 01:00:22,616
they would tell me they say start with some type of stand-up like kickboxing or tie because girls

712
01:00:22,616 --> 01:00:30,535
have very good capability with flexibility so we can kick high or they kick and then they learn

713
01:00:30,535 --> 01:00:38,136
ground skills but so i i said i'm think i was thinking just jiu-jitsu and they're like no

714
01:00:38,136 --> 01:00:48,236
um start with start with a base in stand-up control yeah i think there is for us it's the

715
01:00:48,236 --> 01:00:52,856
the most important thing is freedom for them freedom to choose so we don't push them to learn

716
01:00:52,856 --> 01:00:59,496
jiu-jitsu or anything else um and then once they choose something it's play as rob says like the

717
01:00:59,496 --> 01:01:05,415
most the best way for anybody to learn is in a playful way uh there has been this video going

718
01:01:05,415 --> 01:01:13,475
viral instagram on social media that uh it takes you like 300 400 repetitions to learn something

719
01:01:13,475 --> 01:01:20,695
but if you're having fun it takes you like five minutes or like 15 minutes so it's um when you

720
01:01:20,695 --> 01:01:24,595
enjoy something you're fully in it if you do the playful well your whole body your whole mind your

721
01:01:24,595 --> 01:01:32,236
whole being is involved and it's just become part of you um so of course sometimes it can work it

722
01:01:32,236 --> 01:01:35,356
depends on the person because everybody's different everybody learning style is different

723
01:01:35,356 --> 01:01:41,236
like with Boa little daughter she's five she's very open to like sitting down and me explaining

724
01:01:41,236 --> 01:01:49,136
things and showing how to do it Lima is like no I want to do it like you know stop it um it depends

725
01:01:49,136 --> 01:01:54,155
on the person they have to show an interest for us of course you could come up with a playful way

726
01:01:54,155 --> 01:01:59,715
of teaching something that you can consider important but again if the game isn't right for

727
01:01:59,715 --> 01:02:06,275
them if it's um like lima she's been going to these workshops sewing workshops or creative

728
01:02:06,275 --> 01:02:10,116
workshops but she only went because her best friend was there she was never interested in

729
01:02:10,116 --> 01:02:14,975
what they were doing so now she said i'm not gonna go again and you know we're not going it's

730
01:02:14,975 --> 01:02:23,455
even though it can be fun and it's creative and very free um it's just kind of not worth it the

731
01:02:23,455 --> 01:02:30,595
struggle and she's not going to learn much there and the the sewing she did there you know at some

732
01:02:30,595 --> 01:02:34,936
point she started doing at home she took all our clothes that had little holes and she started

733
01:02:34,936 --> 01:02:42,195
sewing them like this this is her lesson that she came up with to sew but coming coming back to self

734
01:02:42,195 --> 01:02:49,195
like jujitsu self-defense the mixed martial arts okay yeah because sewing you know i would give

735
01:02:49,195 --> 01:02:54,996
them a knife in their belt like hidden yeah like i'm like i'm gonna buy you a belt it's got little

736
01:02:54,996 --> 01:03:01,835
knives in if there's a problem um but we you know we teach uh like with our five-year-old she bit

737
01:03:01,835 --> 01:03:09,415
um you know eight-year-olds yeah and or she bite she bite her when she's really frustrated i say

738
01:03:09,415 --> 01:03:15,776
you only bite someone if you're really feeling in danger and then you bite their nose off

739
01:03:15,776 --> 01:03:21,975
or you bite into their neck, but only if you're in real danger.

740
01:03:22,195 --> 01:03:25,756
And there's a, so say man is, you feel your life is threatened

741
01:03:25,756 --> 01:03:28,496
and they're like, bite their nose off.

742
01:03:28,575 --> 01:03:30,455
I say, yeah, if you bite someone's nose off,

743
01:03:30,555 --> 01:03:34,996
they're not going to be interested in, you know, doing anything else.

744
01:03:36,376 --> 01:03:38,936
So we, it quickly kills the vibe.

745
01:03:40,216 --> 01:03:42,976
It quickly kills the vibe if you're trying to do something bad.

746
01:03:42,976 --> 01:03:49,256
And, you know, I was taught that in my martial arts sessions.

747
01:03:49,916 --> 01:03:56,575
And so as a father, I want my girls to be able to protect themselves.

748
01:03:58,035 --> 01:04:01,356
So I learn how to protect myself.

749
01:04:02,075 --> 01:04:06,075
And then they see that and they're absorbing it and learning it.

750
01:04:06,075 --> 01:04:11,096
And maybe at one point they come in and go, we've had it, right?

751
01:04:11,096 --> 01:04:17,736
lima jumps on me and she's doing jujitsu like it may not be called jujitsu you know she hasn't got

752
01:04:17,736 --> 01:04:23,876
her gi on but she's trying to bite me and strangle me she's got unbelievable she's eight i have to

753
01:04:23,876 --> 01:04:29,416
really watch my neck she's straight onto my back i'm having to spin and we're laughing and playing

754
01:04:29,416 --> 01:04:38,256
and so she does that for the next 10 years you know or i mean if she got into it she'll be

755
01:04:38,256 --> 01:04:45,616
a black belt and she'll be pro yeah yeah and it's also another component of that is the person you

756
01:04:45,616 --> 01:04:49,976
do it with because it's Rob you know there's a connection and they have this thing that they do

757
01:04:49,976 --> 01:04:56,476
together I have other things that I do with Lima or with Bo and the same is with with other kids

758
01:04:56,476 --> 01:05:03,455
like if we have friends we have friends their boy he's eight and when we get together I play football

759
01:05:03,455 --> 01:05:09,676
with him but I only play football with him I usually don't like football but with him it's

760
01:05:09,676 --> 01:05:15,116
just forth and back it's it's a connection we have so you know if at some point she will find

761
01:05:15,116 --> 01:05:20,096
somebody she wants to do jujitsu with and you know now it's Rob which is great I'm really happy

762
01:05:20,096 --> 01:05:26,575
about that because I would like her to to know how to defend herself too but there's zero pressure

763
01:05:26,575 --> 01:05:34,195
it's all about this you know somebody a friend like a relationship that you build with a person

764
01:05:34,195 --> 01:05:42,496
that you do something meaningful with yeah the place to be there'll be a tatami and we we already

765
01:05:42,496 --> 01:05:51,695
have bitcoiners here i have a guy who's a bitcoiner works for a bitcoin company he he comes we do this

766
01:05:51,695 --> 01:05:58,356
ecological training together but at the a place to be which is not just a piece of land it's a part

767
01:05:58,356 --> 01:06:04,996
of Madeira it's 500,000 meters squared which is huge for Madeira in America that's probably like

768
01:06:04,996 --> 01:06:13,756
someone's front lawn but here it's massive huge piece of land and we'll have a open tatami where

769
01:06:13,756 --> 01:06:21,955
people can do whatever yoga but there will be you know there's some bitcoin is you know coders like

770
01:06:21,955 --> 01:06:28,416
brazilian jiu-jitsu it's a great way to connect it's like being a kid again you're rolling around

771
01:06:28,416 --> 01:06:36,876
and if it's done in a very caring way not ego we're going to be having that as a community

772
01:06:36,876 --> 01:06:42,555
kind of coming together point and if the kids want to do it they can

773
01:06:42,555 --> 01:06:49,116
yeah i love it and one of the things that i'm very secure hear your take about is you you keep

774
01:06:49,116 --> 01:06:54,236
mentioning these things that you are learning as parents to just blow your mind about how

775
01:06:54,236 --> 01:07:00,015
these kids work and how their brains are changing based on the different situations you put them in

776
01:07:00,015 --> 01:07:04,736
i would love to hear what are the things that you've seen and heard from parents and how it's

777
01:07:04,736 --> 01:07:10,075
changed these adults lives just watching this all take place and how has it changed them

778
01:07:10,075 --> 01:07:21,535
um yeah i i hear a lot you know like the children are a reflection of themselves so ourselves

779
01:07:21,535 --> 01:07:28,555
especially because you have been programming them from the moment they were born and um

780
01:07:28,555 --> 01:07:36,496
you can see what i hear a lot you know when she does something i see it's me like i've kind of

781
01:07:36,496 --> 01:07:42,876
taught her that or she's copied it um it's you learn a lot about yourself because you can

782
01:07:42,876 --> 01:07:51,096
kind of see yourself like what is she doing because that's all me um this is what and you

783
01:07:51,096 --> 01:07:55,455
don't know it when it's just you but then when you actually physically see it another person

784
01:07:55,455 --> 01:08:01,856
you're like oh yeah and that's exactly what i do yeah combat combat sports were revolutionized

785
01:08:01,856 --> 01:08:04,096
with the introduction of video recording.

786
01:08:04,356 --> 01:08:05,896
So you could see yourself,

787
01:08:05,936 --> 01:08:07,896
but also get tapes on your opponent

788
01:08:07,896 --> 01:08:10,856
to study their behavior, right?

789
01:08:10,916 --> 01:08:13,955
And so when you give birth to a child

790
01:08:13,955 --> 01:08:17,856
that has all of your conditioning,

791
01:08:18,156 --> 01:08:20,955
both sort of genetics, but the mind.

792
01:08:20,955 --> 01:08:24,976
And so the mind switches the genes on and off.

793
01:08:25,275 --> 01:08:29,035
So this just body-mind, that whole conditioned thing.

794
01:08:29,476 --> 01:08:30,676
And then they're right in front of you

795
01:08:30,676 --> 01:08:38,996
you get angry really they're just reflecting back at what what so we we've met a lot of people who

796
01:08:38,996 --> 01:08:44,636
have found that obviously it's difficult um but if you want to take response you have to take

797
01:08:44,636 --> 01:08:53,436
responsibility for that yeah it's a lot i see the way they speak to you to others to themselves

798
01:08:53,436 --> 01:09:01,476
is how you have been speaking to them or you know the close environment um i can see that

799
01:09:01,476 --> 01:09:07,676
when i'm very tired and frustrated and i lose my shit and i say something that's not so

800
01:09:07,676 --> 01:09:14,815
uh nice uh the next day like it's almost guaranteed that one of my girls are gonna

801
01:09:14,815 --> 01:09:23,136
say almost the same thing or react the same way to somebody nearby and then i know i cannot say

802
01:09:23,136 --> 01:09:43,989
don talk like that because it me who started this and I just have to look within and make it better from that moment on Yeah Also from your I think your question was alluding to what the other parents have seen is they can believe i think a lot of the people that we get

803
01:09:43,989 --> 01:09:50,309
in contact with are bitcoiners so they're already way down all these rabbit holes so they're very

804
01:09:51,349 --> 01:09:56,869
much aware or not always aware actually of themselves but aware of their kids and they're

805
01:09:56,869 --> 01:10:03,889
like oh my god my kid is doing this it's a different species i think that was pablo who

806
01:10:03,889 --> 01:10:09,449
originally said that you're going to have different species so we we listen to them and it's normal

807
01:10:09,449 --> 01:10:15,489
for us so all the parents like normal until you meet a kid who's in in the schooling system and

808
01:10:15,489 --> 01:10:21,229
then you're like uh there's and physically you kind of brought it up i i don't often think about

809
01:10:21,229 --> 01:10:26,549
that because i'm always surrounded by unschooling kids but physically they're different and then if

810
01:10:26,549 --> 01:10:34,849
you were to put that kid into my school or a UK school the kid would be ostracized it would be

811
01:10:34,849 --> 01:10:40,849
I don't know how well you know that would become the leader or maybe become the leader I don't know

812
01:10:40,849 --> 01:10:48,829
like with AJ we hear that a lot when he goes to summer camp in Poland there's all of them are

813
01:10:48,829 --> 01:10:54,629
schooled kids and he's the only unschooled and but he becomes the the leader that's true and

814
01:10:54,629 --> 01:11:02,589
lima is the leader yeah lima is often the leader yeah so that's an interesting thing i don't know

815
01:11:02,589 --> 01:11:08,909
if there's any experiments on it like a placebo double blind like you you'd be able to pick that

816
01:11:08,909 --> 01:11:14,909
unschooled kid it'd be too obvious yeah i i'm sure you guys have seen the movie captain fantastic

817
01:11:14,909 --> 01:11:21,449
i'm assuming right oh no we had that as a everyone said oh you should watch cap you gotta watch it

818
01:11:21,449 --> 01:11:26,969
we did we watch it yeah it's it has so many perfect ties to what you're talking about here

819
01:11:26,969 --> 01:11:31,569
it's basically about this this guy that raises his kids out in the woods and he's teaching them

820
01:11:31,569 --> 01:11:37,969
super you know survival skills and you know and then they go into civilization they go to i can't

821
01:11:37,969 --> 01:11:43,029
remember it's like some family friend or some just normal people house and you can just see the

822
01:11:43,029 --> 01:11:48,909
difference between the conventionally schooled kids and his kids who are like much smarter to

823
01:11:48,909 --> 01:11:51,629
understand how the world works and just operate much better.

824
01:11:51,749 --> 01:11:53,629
So you guys will get a lot out of that movie, I think.

825
01:11:53,629 --> 01:11:54,129
We will.

826
01:11:54,449 --> 01:11:55,929
It's a bit taboo, isn't it?

827
01:11:55,929 --> 01:12:02,629
I think anyone listening to this conversation, especially it's uncomfortable talking about

828
01:12:02,629 --> 01:12:08,029
that system because it's children that are the victims and it's getting worse.

829
01:12:08,249 --> 01:12:11,049
And so we're talking about it and we're going, look, we love them.

830
01:12:11,149 --> 01:12:14,169
We don't judge them or anything, but you have to talk about the difference.

831
01:12:14,169 --> 01:12:20,509
But it's kind of something you I don't think you'd ever hear talked about in in the UK.

832
01:12:20,509 --> 01:12:28,709
The government's not going to do a survey on or unschooling kids more advanced than schooled kids.

833
01:12:29,269 --> 01:12:42,509
And I just think the thing that will never be talked about is the the conditioning of that sort of trauma, bullying, that socializing.

834
01:12:42,509 --> 01:12:49,089
specializing. I think that's really harmful. And it extinguishes the genius of the kid

835
01:12:49,089 --> 01:12:54,689
by the time they're 18. Yeah. And it really is getting worse. I remember,

836
01:12:55,509 --> 01:13:01,169
so you talked about how your education, you were sort of a jock, so it was relatively easier for you.

837
01:13:01,609 --> 01:13:07,529
And myself also, I grew up in a pretty homogenous white farm town, very lovely,

838
01:13:07,529 --> 01:13:13,949
very high trust, no bullying. Everyone was cool with each other. So I had a great time relatively

839
01:13:13,949 --> 01:13:19,109
to like other stories I hear about. I had lots of friends, went off to a really nice college,

840
01:13:19,269 --> 01:13:24,049
had a great time there as well, made lots of friends. So when I look at my experience,

841
01:13:24,049 --> 01:13:29,449
it was definitely on this further along the good experience spectrum versus the average.

842
01:13:29,929 --> 01:13:35,309
But I still look back and think like, you know, what if I just, if I would have been raised in

843
01:13:35,309 --> 01:13:41,749
this unschooling model, I would be far further right now. You have to compare the two. Even if

844
01:13:41,749 --> 01:13:47,069
you had a good time, what would my brain and body be like if I would have had this different track?

845
01:13:47,289 --> 01:13:52,409
That's a great point, Ben. What you just said there is actually what everyone says.

846
01:13:53,049 --> 01:13:59,269
They look back at one moment, they go, oh my God, who would I be if I'd had that experience?

847
01:13:59,609 --> 01:14:02,909
And it's usually quite emotional. We've had a lot of people say,

848
01:14:02,909 --> 01:14:08,349
me too whenever I think about it yeah we've talked a lot about that like who would I be without that

849
01:14:08,349 --> 01:14:18,709
and I think it's um when you when you can say that then you can't go school again yeah and yeah

850
01:14:18,709 --> 01:14:24,029
for me it's not so much about saying we're better than them like I don't think anybody's better or

851
01:14:24,029 --> 01:14:30,569
worse as a human being it's more about the emotional mental physical health aspects that

852
01:14:30,569 --> 01:14:36,849
come with the system and without it that the connection with the family you know emotional

853
01:14:36,849 --> 01:14:43,929
health and uh no bullying or like next to no bullying and if so you learn from it and that's

854
01:14:43,929 --> 01:14:50,869
psychological health and uh you know being out all day and moving your body all day as much as you

855
01:14:50,869 --> 01:14:57,169
like the physical health that comes with unschooling and the freedom it's just so much healthier i'm

856
01:14:57,169 --> 01:15:02,069
not saying we're better we're just i think we're healthier yeah you're trying to put up with bullying

857
01:15:02,069 --> 01:15:08,089
you can't really get away from it no and again there's like a foundation the principles of the

858
01:15:08,089 --> 01:15:14,189
system are effed and then here somewhere on top of it is the bullying and then they come up with

859
01:15:14,189 --> 01:15:19,749
these little solutions if they just you know yeah they won't we have to come up with a new system

860
01:15:19,749 --> 01:15:26,069
go away from there and do unschooling and you know clean yourself from the inside

861
01:15:26,069 --> 01:15:33,889
and that's how everything will fall into place take away a lot of all these things that are

862
01:15:33,889 --> 01:15:41,649
on the system and the the solutions because it just doesn't work it's like putting a little

863
01:15:41,649 --> 01:15:47,369
plaster on like a million cuts on your body and somebody continues to cut you all the time

864
01:15:47,369 --> 01:15:55,009
just go away and take your kids out of school now I watched another great video the other day

865
01:15:55,009 --> 01:15:57,829
where somebody said, take your kids out of school now.

866
01:15:58,209 --> 01:16:01,309
Like if the stable's on fire, you're not going to think,

867
01:16:01,429 --> 01:16:03,349
where am I going to put the horses?

868
01:16:03,829 --> 01:16:05,889
You know, just take the horses out and then you'll see.

869
01:16:06,049 --> 01:16:12,029
And we're the best example of not needing any curriculum.

870
01:16:12,769 --> 01:16:15,969
Of course, I don't have a job where I go to.

871
01:16:16,389 --> 01:16:18,869
Rob works like two to four hours a day from home.

872
01:16:19,229 --> 01:16:20,449
We have this freedom.

873
01:16:20,609 --> 01:16:21,869
We have created this lifestyle.

874
01:16:21,869 --> 01:16:29,269
of course if both parents are working they need to find a solution and depending also on the age

875
01:16:29,269 --> 01:16:33,989
of the children because if they're really tiny they can't just have them you know running around

876
01:16:33,989 --> 01:16:39,749
in the park by themselves when they're three or even at home but there's always a way and

877
01:16:39,749 --> 01:16:46,189
I think it's really important and it's there'll be a video in 10 years time where

878
01:16:46,189 --> 01:16:50,289
where's this kid now and our children will be like bank robbers

879
01:16:50,289 --> 01:16:54,929
and they'll be like you shouldn't trust them

880
01:16:54,929 --> 01:17:03,289
yeah and this idea of just like how safe your community and your environment is

881
01:17:03,289 --> 01:17:08,809
it's so important because we keep talking about how such a huge part of this model that

882
01:17:08,809 --> 01:17:14,549
you're championing is how just giving them the space and the freedom to do what they want and

883
01:17:14,549 --> 01:17:22,289
no one of any age can exercise freedom and exploring these ideas if they don't feel safe

884
01:17:22,289 --> 01:17:27,089
and secure so like having a safe location that you live this is what's so important for parents

885
01:17:27,089 --> 01:17:31,529
like think about that and i it's it looks like madera is a great place right now i know bitcoiners

886
01:17:31,529 --> 01:17:35,249
are always talking about you know where are the best places for people to be for this stuff but

887
01:17:35,249 --> 01:17:44,029
i mean yeah madera has lots of water like if we go like to the extreme looking at possibilities

888
01:17:44,029 --> 01:17:51,689
we have water we will have uh cattle at a place to be at a place to be and we'll have um we'll

889
01:17:51,689 --> 01:17:58,649
have horses we'll do horse therapy as a business uh we have a farmer an organic farmer but we'll

890
01:17:58,649 --> 01:18:03,569
i'm looking at the castle ranching now we've got a big coiner who's going to come in and and um

891
01:18:03,569 --> 01:18:10,249
probably run that because i am amazing new yeah yeah yeah awesome and the kids will be around that

892
01:18:10,249 --> 01:18:20,909
obviously there will be electric fences and your f fafo the kid might might go oh look the boy

893
01:18:20,909 --> 01:18:27,809
the boy go what happens if i check you find out right um a quick lesson to learn it shouldn't

894
01:18:27,809 --> 01:18:35,729
you will learn how to learn multiple times no no no and madeira is extremely safe um yeah do you

895
01:18:35,729 --> 01:18:42,209
get this tight like it's in the newspaper if a car window is broken and someone stole something

896
01:18:42,209 --> 01:18:50,669
and the locals are like oh the society is breaking down um but you compared to mainland europe it's

897
01:18:50,669 --> 01:18:59,289
it's a little paradise then we have a whole valley that we and there's one road in um i have a friend

898
01:18:59,289 --> 01:19:02,589
who is ex-Special Forces, he'll be coming over to teach survival.

899
01:19:03,429 --> 01:19:08,909
And he will recce the land and, you know, do a proposal

900
01:19:08,909 --> 01:19:14,109
so that we have like a checkpoint, even though we don't have to.

901
01:19:14,169 --> 01:19:16,349
I'm just talking what ifs.

902
01:19:16,389 --> 01:19:21,129
We have water, we have a spring, so we have huge amounts of water

903
01:19:21,129 --> 01:19:22,589
will be self-sufficient.

904
01:19:23,169 --> 01:19:27,609
And because it's a tiny little island, you don't get any boats able

905
01:19:27,609 --> 01:19:33,369
to come over um you know the chinese army would be able to if it wanted to but they could come

906
01:19:33,369 --> 01:19:40,969
there's nothing here and so we i deemed it as a good place to come to with europe as it is

907
01:19:40,969 --> 01:19:47,049
uh possible europe um you know if there's a possibility that actually collapses uh it's

908
01:19:47,049 --> 01:19:54,569
semi-autonomous so yeah it will be affected but i think the tourism thing is all always good and

909
01:19:54,569 --> 01:19:58,929
And then we have this circular economy that's building in Bitcoin.

910
01:19:59,529 --> 01:20:04,589
And so hopefully by the time that happens, then everything will be bought, could buy everything through Bitcoin.

911
01:20:05,469 --> 01:20:11,309
Yeah, I'd love to hear more details on that because I can't remember if I mentioned this earlier, but I am in Costa Rica right now.

912
01:20:11,869 --> 01:20:14,869
And there's tons of places you can buy stuff with Bitcoin.

913
01:20:15,689 --> 01:20:23,949
After this podcast is done, I'm going to go probably load up on some more ground beef and I can buy it with the sats that I stacked on Nostra by posting memes.

914
01:20:23,949 --> 01:20:25,469
and getting zaps.

915
01:20:25,729 --> 01:20:28,489
And I'd love to bring Nostra back up a little bit later as well

916
01:20:28,489 --> 01:20:30,189
because we barely touched on that.

917
01:20:30,429 --> 01:20:34,009
But what is the circular economy looking like over there right now?

918
01:20:34,069 --> 01:20:35,029
What's the current status?

919
01:20:35,169 --> 01:20:37,129
I know that Andre Locha, like you mentioned,

920
01:20:37,190 --> 01:20:38,809
has been really pushing this for a long time.

921
01:20:38,889 --> 01:20:43,949
Yeah, we've got about 120-plus businesses that take –

922
01:20:43,949 --> 01:20:45,409
we have pharmacies.

923
01:20:46,089 --> 01:20:50,809
We have a lot of cafes, bakeries, like the two main chains.

924
01:20:50,809 --> 01:20:58,949
We have the main chain was Andre knew the guy and they came on board with Bitcoin.

925
01:20:58,949 --> 01:21:17,863
And then our local Pe Dagi down the road which is amazing bakery coffee place They because I kept asking they actually said oh we interested now because our competition taking bitcoin so it got to a point where there this critical mass and people

926
01:21:17,863 --> 01:21:24,103
they're orange pilling themselves the businesses so we have um within 100 meters we have pharmacy

927
01:21:24,103 --> 01:21:32,163
fishmongers ice cream ice uh organic ice cream uh coffee bakery noodles

928
01:21:32,163 --> 01:21:39,983
yeah um we're trying to constantly orange pill our organic uh farmer who brings our eggs and

929
01:21:39,983 --> 01:21:47,723
vegetables and uh the butcher as well yeah the butcher's about to go yeah he is he can't he's

930
01:21:47,723 --> 01:21:55,443
on the meat boys we need the meat guys that's the one i haven't pushed it because he's a grass-fed

931
01:21:55,443 --> 01:22:03,223
butcher up the road but he's um it's like we he got a second flyer and they don't usually go beyond

932
01:22:03,223 --> 01:22:10,943
that um and he gets it from the azures which is a set of islands nearby that have very high copper

933
01:22:10,943 --> 01:22:17,903
i've checked the soil uh mineral content of the soils it's really undamaged so we have the grass

934
01:22:17,903 --> 01:22:25,823
fed beef is coming from very um you know very valuable valuable soil like soils really kept well

935
01:22:25,823 --> 01:22:34,023
um so there's a ton of you know restaurants and it's growing very quickly um people more and more

936
01:22:34,023 --> 01:22:40,463
people are seeing it talking about it asking about it so we're in that sort of upward curve

937
01:22:40,463 --> 01:22:49,743
we just uh andre is hopefully getting a whole supermarket chain um onboarded so when that is

938
01:22:49,743 --> 01:22:56,943
the case then you can uh the dentist right my dentist yeah dentist um there's a load of other

939
01:22:56,943 --> 01:23:03,623
ones that i will probably go oh why didn't we mention that but it's a very meat-centric diet

940
01:23:03,623 --> 01:23:10,023
here beef so i when i first came here i thought it would be fish and seafood they do have good

941
01:23:10,023 --> 01:23:17,823
seafood but then the taxi driver said oh no no madeirians like beef i was like huh so we can get

942
01:23:17,823 --> 01:23:26,863
we get imported beef um there's a guy i met in hong kong recently who that i orange pilled him

943
01:23:26,863 --> 01:23:34,643
i sent him bitcoin he does he's a wealthy guy he runs beef the beef markets in hong kong and uh he

944
01:23:34,643 --> 01:23:39,683
said if you ever wanted to set something up that could be done but i was thinking why don't we set

945
01:23:39,683 --> 01:23:48,363
up our own cattle on the island grass-fed cattle and so that'll be something that'll be put into

946
01:23:48,363 --> 01:23:54,603
you know maybe this year sometime because we'll be able to move quicker on the animals than

947
01:23:54,603 --> 01:24:00,303
we're getting building permission for 25 homes beautiful like

948
01:24:00,303 --> 01:24:09,763
we'll mix some wooden you know just nice little cabins yeah cabins i want to build some hobbit

949
01:24:09,763 --> 01:24:15,423
houses for visitors like grandparents and you know family members who come and stay for a while

950
01:24:15,423 --> 01:24:23,363
but yeah we have so many bitcoiners coming and loving it and you know the more bitcoins there are

951
01:24:23,363 --> 01:24:27,743
the more people will be orange-pilled because they're going to go into their

952
01:24:27,743 --> 01:24:32,443
shops, you know, that they like to go in. And at some point they're going to orange.

953
01:24:32,623 --> 01:24:34,743
Yeah. They always say, do you accept Bitcoin here?

954
01:24:35,343 --> 01:24:41,603
That's all you have to say. That's all anyone has to say to help push the needle because it just takes them hearing that enough times.

955
01:24:41,603 --> 01:24:48,043
And I've even heard people like when I was in Buenos Aires, Argentina, I heard some some great tips from their meetup crew there.

956
01:24:48,183 --> 01:24:53,223
They actually are very meticulous in how they schedule out one person.

957
01:24:53,323 --> 01:24:54,903
A different person goes there each time.

958
01:24:54,903 --> 01:24:55,343
Oh, really?

959
01:24:55,483 --> 01:24:57,123
Hey, do you accept Bitcoin? Do you accept Bitcoin?

960
01:24:57,123 --> 01:25:00,643
to just continue nudging them and sort of give that illusion

961
01:25:00,643 --> 01:25:02,503
that lots and lots of people are asking for this.

962
01:25:02,743 --> 01:25:03,623
It's a good tool.

963
01:25:04,763 --> 01:25:08,543
We have a Poncha bar, this sort of alcoholic drink here

964
01:25:08,543 --> 01:25:12,503
that all the Bitcoiners go to that's up the road from here.

965
01:25:12,983 --> 01:25:16,283
I was talking with our main, we sent a guy, Charlie,

966
01:25:16,283 --> 01:25:21,823
he's an amazing Venezuelan guy, to onboard and set up Swiss Bitcoin,

967
01:25:21,903 --> 01:25:23,483
a Swiss pay.

968
01:25:24,883 --> 01:25:26,523
And he said something interesting.

969
01:25:26,523 --> 01:25:31,123
he's a smart guy he was saying i think you're going to get a big company come in and just

970
01:25:31,123 --> 01:25:39,783
orange uh just come in and dominate the market because you know swiss pay every it's we're kind

971
01:25:39,783 --> 01:25:46,023
of forcing someone uh but we're we're asking can i pay in bitcoin and then people say how does

972
01:25:46,023 --> 01:25:52,023
so it's not like you're forcing them to take it you're just saying can we pay in bitcoin we would

973
01:25:52,023 --> 01:25:58,243
like to and then they say yes or no like the fishmonger and we pay but he thinks he's just

974
01:25:58,243 --> 01:26:04,323
waiting for a big company to come in and they'll have actual people paid that go in and they you

975
01:26:04,323 --> 01:26:11,143
know like a marketing like blackrock who now they've got all their people are um orange pilling

976
01:26:11,143 --> 01:26:14,683
i suppose so he just thinks someone's going to come in and it's just going to go

977
01:26:14,683 --> 01:26:22,123
fine all all businesses will accept bitcoin but yeah it certainly feels like we're starting to

978
01:26:22,123 --> 01:26:26,223
nudge up to that s-curve moment where it's just becoming more and more ubiquitous and it's going

979
01:26:26,223 --> 01:26:32,443
to be good news for everybody some just don't know it absolutely keep me updated yeah the mechanic

980
01:26:32,443 --> 01:26:39,263
was orange pill yesterday yeah there we go oh we do yoga in the park which is yeah yoga with

981
01:26:39,263 --> 01:26:48,063
bitcoin i buy kombucha and bitcoin um yeah you know friends as well the nanny yeah bitcoin nannies

982
01:26:48,063 --> 01:26:54,143
here bitcoin nannies yeah you'll have to keep me in the loop on the the butcher progress because

983
01:26:54,143 --> 01:26:59,143
that's like a that's a personal crusade close to my heart is getting all these meat producers on it

984
01:26:59,143 --> 01:27:04,983
because you know as we talked about earlier so many of these conventionally tracked kids are

985
01:27:04,983 --> 01:27:10,883
being pushed through you know this this ideology that meat is bad for you and to eat more vegan

986
01:27:10,883 --> 01:27:16,623
more plants so their brain doesn't ever end up functioning well and so we know the government's

987
01:27:16,623 --> 01:27:20,563
going to come after all these meat producers and start cracking down harder and harder as they

988
01:27:20,563 --> 01:27:26,023
already are everywhere right now so we need to help them get them detached from the fiat system

989
01:27:26,023 --> 01:27:30,163
so we can have that good access to healthy food from people who care about the food they create

990
01:27:30,163 --> 01:27:51,323
Yeah, so I mean, it's a good point. It is a very good point. And also, it makes me even more bullish on getting a healthy bull and some cow, you know, and having our own. And I was talking, I reached, I was talking with Max Hillebrand about it. He put me in touch with Untapped Growth.

991
01:27:51,323 --> 01:27:59,343
the he's in a big you'll you'll have heard of him and he told me to read man cattle and and felt

992
01:27:59,343 --> 01:28:07,523
um which is uh like the bitcoin is he's a bitcoin i don't think he is but the way he's talking is

993
01:28:07,523 --> 01:28:14,443
amazing about raising cattle and so i've read that and then i got my friend who's a farmer

994
01:28:14,443 --> 01:28:21,983
originally and he's reading it so we're just putting it and um we could um untapped growth

995
01:28:21,983 --> 01:28:30,743
talks also about uh tokenizing almost the uh having a community come in and paying for for a

996
01:28:30,743 --> 01:28:36,943
bull or cattle and then um get a percentage so you you bring the whole community into the beef

997
01:28:36,943 --> 01:28:45,623
ecosystem and milk if you're selling milk they'll get sats back so we we've got we're looking to go

998
01:28:45,623 --> 01:28:53,123
that way and um you don't need that much land based on this methodology to produce a lot of beef

999
01:28:53,123 --> 01:29:00,403
so exciting love it love it yeah i i think everyone who's really dialed in this stuff is

1000
01:29:00,403 --> 01:29:04,723
dreaming of having their own beautiful group of cows out grazing on some grass so you can

1001
01:29:04,723 --> 01:29:07,043
Be the most sovereign you can possibly be.

1002
01:29:07,443 --> 01:29:08,043
Love it.

1003
01:29:08,103 --> 01:29:08,323
Love it.

1004
01:29:08,863 --> 01:29:13,483
I got one last question here before we start bringing this home, and that is just around Noster.

1005
01:29:13,783 --> 01:29:17,263
We've had a couple of relevant conversations here early on.

1006
01:29:17,363 --> 01:29:23,823
You mentioned how social media can be a positive or a huge negative, depending on how it's used.

1007
01:29:24,363 --> 01:29:29,123
And I'm curious what your thoughts are on Noster now, because I know you guys have an account on there.

1008
01:29:29,123 --> 01:29:45,123
I'm not sure how active you are on it, but this idea of having social media that isn't connected to this fiat agenda and how you think that could be bullish for kids and children and young people in general just using social media.

1009
01:29:45,123 --> 01:29:51,163
and if you think that this could be a good catalyst to social media becoming a tool for positive growth

1010
01:29:51,163 --> 01:29:57,203
and building businesses and learning and becoming better rather than just sucking your life away

1011
01:29:57,203 --> 01:30:01,123
doom scrolling on a bunch of fear porn and negative stimuli.

1012
01:30:01,983 --> 01:30:07,263
Yeah, I mean, yeah, my daughter and her friend are just like, I'm just going to talk about my daughter now,

1013
01:30:07,603 --> 01:30:10,483
Lima, with the dog walking business.

1014
01:30:11,123 --> 01:30:13,883
That's what I'm trying to teach to use it.

1015
01:30:13,883 --> 01:30:20,363
she's mainly on instagram because her clients are people who live around here i haven't seen

1016
01:30:20,363 --> 01:30:26,283
many bitcoiners with dogs to be honest they're more on like ethereum owners they're like little

1017
01:30:26,283 --> 01:30:33,803
fluffy things that they carry seriously though they are all coiners i'm sure so for her business

1018
01:30:33,803 --> 01:30:37,783
right now you know i think it's best to stick to instagram because that's what the people around

1019
01:30:37,783 --> 01:30:44,903
here are using um we have set up a nostril account for her but um because of the wallet so she can

1020
01:30:44,903 --> 01:30:53,163
accept bitcoin uh so we need to get into you know how to post how to use it best um i think generally

1021
01:30:53,163 --> 01:31:02,563
like later um it's better to go the nostril way to support that system because yeah if you need

1022
01:31:02,563 --> 01:31:08,843
Instagram like one of the fiat social media systems for your business I think that's okay

1023
01:31:08,843 --> 01:31:15,983
but I personally I don't like social I don't like to be on there I watch when I watch a like I do

1024
01:31:15,983 --> 01:31:22,623
maybe five minutes a day of Instagram to look for really good content download it and share it

1025
01:31:22,623 --> 01:31:30,423
and that's it I don't spend much time there and Noster as well I'm on and off for a place to be

1026
01:31:30,423 --> 01:31:33,823
I use it to spread the word and stuff.

1027
01:31:34,783 --> 01:31:38,343
But if I could, I would not use social media at all,

1028
01:31:38,503 --> 01:31:38,723
whichever.

1029
01:31:38,903 --> 01:31:40,883
I don't like spending time on a screen.

1030
01:31:42,063 --> 01:31:46,783
For kids, as I said, that's my way just from the beginning.

1031
01:31:47,163 --> 01:31:51,063
Don't let them get used to binge watching, lots of reels,

1032
01:31:51,303 --> 01:31:52,323
no matter where.

1033
01:31:53,003 --> 01:31:58,363
You probably find better content and healthier content on Nostra

1034
01:31:58,363 --> 01:32:00,163
than on all the other platforms.

1035
01:32:00,423 --> 01:32:08,363
But I think it's important to learn how to use social media, especially YouTube, where it's like a university.

1036
01:32:08,363 --> 01:32:11,443
You can learn anything if you use it for this.

1037
01:32:12,123 --> 01:32:18,663
Yeah, they're little children.

1038
01:32:19,263 --> 01:32:20,803
They're eight and five.

1039
01:32:20,803 --> 01:32:28,103
So if you just give them an iPad and you're not watching what you're doing, that's very, very irresponsible and damaging.

1040
01:32:28,103 --> 01:32:36,583
so um there's a reason why the you know the the movie social network or the one which is the

1041
01:32:36,583 --> 01:32:45,223
documentary and the all the owners saying yeah we don't let our kids have screens is um damning the

1042
01:32:45,257 --> 01:32:46,237
Social dilemma.

1043
01:32:46,417 --> 01:32:46,577
Yeah.

1044
01:32:47,537 --> 01:32:48,237
It's shame.

1045
01:32:48,377 --> 01:32:49,237
I'm not shameful.

1046
01:32:49,397 --> 01:32:50,237
I don't like to use that word.

1047
01:32:50,237 --> 01:32:56,797
But it's pretty sad that they've done that.

1048
01:32:57,057 --> 01:32:58,557
And now they're farming.

1049
01:32:59,037 --> 01:33:00,117
Really, it's farming, right?

1050
01:33:00,337 --> 01:33:01,437
We're the cattle.

1051
01:33:01,817 --> 01:33:03,997
And they do those scrolling things.

1052
01:33:04,137 --> 01:33:05,697
And it's super addictive.

1053
01:33:06,337 --> 01:33:10,237
And so I don't use social media much.

1054
01:33:11,357 --> 01:33:15,077
I'm weaning myself off Twitter because it's brutal.

1055
01:33:15,257 --> 01:33:19,917
So I'm just, but I'm full time now, Nostra.

1056
01:33:20,517 --> 01:33:28,617
So I made the decision, even though I'll lose a client or lose money clients type thing.

1057
01:33:28,617 --> 01:33:38,457
But if I'm going to, if I'm seriously taking responsibility for freedom and all my works about that, then I need to be on a platform that reflects that.

1058
01:33:38,617 --> 01:33:42,037
And so I put all my energy into my Nostra account.

1059
01:33:42,037 --> 01:33:45,397
and I'm still getting used to NOSTA.

1060
01:33:45,977 --> 01:33:50,177
Sometimes it's a bit lonely, but I realize it's early doors.

1061
01:33:50,177 --> 01:33:55,917
I can choose my relays, I believe, and curate.

1062
01:33:58,277 --> 01:34:02,557
I don't want to spend too much time on screens,

1063
01:34:02,877 --> 01:34:09,077
but I get sats for my content and it's amazing.

1064
01:34:09,077 --> 01:34:19,357
You know that Nicolas Cage Air Force One meme where he's like, whenever anyone saps me, even if it's a tiny amount, it is very humbling.

1065
01:34:20,197 --> 01:34:28,157
And, you know, if I do a video and I get 21 sats, I am like buzzing because that is, you know.

1066
01:34:28,497 --> 01:34:29,057
It's real.

1067
01:34:29,657 --> 01:34:31,397
Like the exact amount is irrelevant.

1068
01:34:31,537 --> 01:34:33,937
You're getting real value from the content you're creating.

1069
01:34:33,937 --> 01:34:34,937
Yes, and people are valuing it.

1070
01:34:34,937 --> 01:34:39,377
If I do something that's not valuable, I don't get any value.

1071
01:34:39,897 --> 01:34:44,937
So it incentivizes you to do the best you can and not to put shit out.

1072
01:34:46,517 --> 01:34:50,997
I'll do the odd GM, but that's the kind of connection community.

1073
01:34:51,737 --> 01:34:55,857
And you're not expecting to get that unless you're one of the –

1074
01:34:55,857 --> 01:35:03,337
Gigi, I don't want to say where he is, but you get –

1075
01:35:03,337 --> 01:35:04,737
but that's also cool, right?

1076
01:35:04,737 --> 01:35:08,137
There's the community on that.

1077
01:35:08,737 --> 01:35:19,397
There was another thing I wanted to add, because for me, with unschooling and the way I parent,

1078
01:35:20,217 --> 01:35:23,917
I never wanted to reward or punish.

1079
01:35:24,137 --> 01:35:30,217
I'm going to say too much, because sometimes I do reward and sometimes I do punish when I have a weak moment.

1080
01:35:30,217 --> 01:35:40,057
but a reward is never like money or you know a hug when there's an amazing moment because I always

1081
01:35:40,057 --> 01:35:47,537
knew I want my children to do what they do because they enjoy it not because I'm gonna say wow you're

1082
01:35:47,537 --> 01:35:54,937
so great or here you got money or here's a gift they get their pocket money and they have to deal

1083
01:35:54,937 --> 01:35:59,337
with it I'm not buying them anything that they don't need they have their pocket money for that

1084
01:35:59,337 --> 01:36:07,017
that type of thing so and now on social media i could see like we opened the account that they

1085
01:36:07,017 --> 01:36:12,577
put like two posts out one and presenting themselves introducing themselves and another

1086
01:36:12,577 --> 01:36:20,977
one filming how they were walking the shelter dogs and it was this um how many how many likes

1087
01:36:20,977 --> 01:36:27,357
do we have yeah and i was like oh shit this is reward this is the dope you know dopamine this

1088
01:36:27,357 --> 01:36:32,597
is the drug in this yeah can we see how many likes we have like and we had to talk about it

1089
01:36:32,597 --> 01:36:37,017
like no we're not going to check this out you're not doing this for the likes you're going you want

1090
01:36:37,017 --> 01:36:40,957
customers you know i'm going to let you know if somebody messages i'm going to let you know if

1091
01:36:40,957 --> 01:36:46,997
somebody calls me and wants you to hire you but we're not getting into this this is we talked

1092
01:36:46,997 --> 01:36:53,057
about yeah it's that like it's the it's the like it's just status people well we have 30 likes and

1093
01:36:53,057 --> 01:36:53,897
Validation.

1094
01:36:54,037 --> 01:36:54,397
Ah!

1095
01:36:54,817 --> 01:36:58,877
Yeah, coming back to what you said, Ben, about the SATs,

1096
01:36:59,277 --> 01:37:01,337
is it sort of calibrates value.

1097
01:37:02,177 --> 01:37:05,597
It's a system, so you're doing it because it's valuable.

1098
01:37:05,777 --> 01:37:10,237
If you're putting content out there, why am I putting stuff out there?

1099
01:37:10,277 --> 01:37:14,437
Am I trying to get attention, or is it because I feel

1100
01:37:14,437 --> 01:37:18,077
that there's something of value that can be valuable to others?

1101
01:37:18,077 --> 01:37:22,037
And so that's why NOSTA hits the mark on Twitter.

1102
01:37:22,037 --> 01:37:29,617
it's about how offensive or you know like conflict generating you you know uh and and

1103
01:37:29,617 --> 01:37:39,337
instagram is is uh oh look how great i am so it's pride twitter status um you know so yeah i think

1104
01:37:39,337 --> 01:37:57,774
my girls that would do this without getting paid for it because they in the dog park every day playing with them and picking them up and you know asking can I walk your dog around the park and um I think it was Lima way to get get more like get to walk the dogs that she

1105
01:37:57,774 --> 01:38:04,834
finds really cute like okay uh you know I'm gonna open a dog walking business and it's not so much

1106
01:38:04,834 --> 01:38:08,754
about the money that's what I like you know we don't want them to do things for the money that's

1107
01:38:08,754 --> 01:38:14,014
why I don't pay them to do things around the house like they have to do their beds they have to bring

1108
01:38:14,014 --> 01:38:18,494
their plates into the kitchen they have to tidy their stuff because we're a family and i'm not

1109
01:38:18,494 --> 01:38:27,354
their mate so um this isn't you know the way for her to get to walk the dogs by having this business

1110
01:38:27,354 --> 01:38:33,634
and she's gonna get paid for it but when this lady the first the first customer messaged me and

1111
01:38:33,634 --> 01:38:40,454
said can lima and and you know can the girls look after the dogs for a week they're like yeah they

1112
01:38:40,454 --> 01:38:46,854
didn't even ask how much are they going to pay us it was just yes of course and um that's the way

1113
01:38:46,854 --> 01:38:53,894
you know i enjoyment yes enjoyment like whatever you do do it whether you get paid for it or not

1114
01:38:53,894 --> 01:39:00,814
the money will come yeah yeah and just to sort of round that out i you guys mentioned pablo earlier

1115
01:39:00,814 --> 01:39:06,134
and he's he's an awesome guy one of the best nostril follows out there and i think one of the

1116
01:39:06,134 --> 01:39:11,814
I believe he posted this how for his his general guidelines for raising kids is

1117
01:39:11,814 --> 01:39:17,314
no screens at all for as long as you can like 10 years old most of the time but for certain

1118
01:39:17,314 --> 01:39:21,894
exceptions like your daughter wants to start a business and like for that Instagram is a great

1119
01:39:21,894 --> 01:39:26,554
tool like it's good to have these sort of general ideas that just the less screens the better

1120
01:39:26,554 --> 01:39:32,534
especially on those super early days oh it breaks my heart when I see just babies and strollers with

1121
01:39:32,534 --> 01:39:37,814
iPads in front of their face, just roasting their corneas. It's terrible. And we need just less

1122
01:39:37,814 --> 01:39:42,554
parents doing that, more parents taking responsibility and not taking that easy road

1123
01:39:42,554 --> 01:39:48,734
of just pacifying their kids with technology. It's very unhealthy. And I am hopeful though,

1124
01:39:48,734 --> 01:39:52,714
we'll see two years from now when your daughter hits that 10 years mark, I mean,

1125
01:39:52,954 --> 01:39:57,774
nostrils should be really rolling by then, I think. So it's going to be really exciting to

1126
01:39:57,774 --> 01:40:03,614
see how this continues to flourish and changes the social media landscape to be more so toward

1127
01:40:03,614 --> 01:40:12,174
value providers and less about i junk and it'll be very interesting to watch for sure so man we've

1128
01:40:12,174 --> 01:40:15,994
talked about so much awesome stuff today guys i i think we could finally start wrapping it up here

1129
01:40:15,994 --> 01:40:22,594
and it's flown by yeah seriously it just it just cruised um super awesome conversation i guess a

1130
01:40:22,594 --> 01:40:28,654
good way to end this would be what what the parents how about how should we say this what

1131
01:40:28,654 --> 01:40:36,234
would be your message to the current and aspiring parents out there who are thinking about how

1132
01:40:36,234 --> 01:40:41,714
they're going to be raising their kids and their families and they like we mentioned before they

1133
01:40:41,714 --> 01:40:47,794
might be scared of it it sounds like a big crazy leap they might be you know in a country like

1134
01:40:47,794 --> 01:40:50,054
Sylvia, are you from Germany, I'm assuming?

1135
01:40:50,874 --> 01:40:51,054
Yeah.

1136
01:40:51,594 --> 01:40:54,714
I mean, places like Germany, it's illegal to homeschool, right?

1137
01:40:54,794 --> 01:40:57,274
Like you can't, like there's all these crazy rules everywhere.

1138
01:40:57,834 --> 01:41:02,494
It just seems like a large jump to make for parents to be able to even do this.

1139
01:41:02,534 --> 01:41:06,814
So what is your message to the parents out there, current and aspiring,

1140
01:41:07,034 --> 01:41:08,294
who are in these different situations?

1141
01:41:08,294 --> 01:41:09,674
It seems like there's a lot of obstacles.

1142
01:41:10,074 --> 01:41:14,234
And what do you recommend to them and how a place to be can be a potential solution?

1143
01:41:14,754 --> 01:41:17,534
Big questions, but good final one, I think.

1144
01:41:17,794 --> 01:41:26,194
yeah I mean it's um I think every parent would agree that nobody loves you as much as your

1145
01:41:26,194 --> 01:41:29,914
children and you don't love anybody the way you love your children so they're the most important

1146
01:41:29,914 --> 01:41:39,174
people in your life and um what do you want for that for them um you know just the best

1147
01:41:39,174 --> 01:41:49,374
everybody would just you know happy and the best um now i would recommend for anybody to not send

1148
01:41:49,374 --> 01:41:54,734
their kids to school unless it's like a very nice free democratic school where they don't even have

1149
01:41:54,734 --> 01:42:02,894
to go every day like as free as possible as unschooling like as possible um then if you make

1150
01:42:02,894 --> 01:42:11,294
it your priority you will find a way and there's always a way and especially nowadays it's uh it is

1151
01:42:11,294 --> 01:42:21,954
it can be quite easy um more of more like uh yeah it's just priorities what's more important you

1152
01:42:21,954 --> 01:42:28,194
know what's keeping you there uh i don't know it's like yeah you might have family and friends

1153
01:42:28,194 --> 01:42:31,654
and you might have a job or something in a house and stuff.

1154
01:42:32,194 --> 01:42:33,574
But what's more important?

1155
01:42:33,894 --> 01:42:39,454
Like the other day, Rob has a brand new iPad and he gave it to the girls

1156
01:42:39,454 --> 01:42:42,154
and there was a scratch on there.

1157
01:42:42,694 --> 01:42:43,834
And Rob freaked out.

1158
01:42:44,194 --> 01:43:03,031
And I said Rob what more important a scratch or Lima And yeah he gave it back to her and it was fine um you know nothing is more important than your children and their well and their future and if you a little bit open

1159
01:43:03,031 --> 01:43:10,291
if you're you know if you're watching this you are open-minded um do as much research as you can

1160
01:43:10,291 --> 01:43:15,971
then there is no way you're gonna send your kids to school if you start doing the research and go

1161
01:43:15,971 --> 01:43:21,831
down the rabbit hole there's no way and there are many possibilities that you cannot see at the

1162
01:43:21,831 --> 01:43:30,891
moment because you're might be stuck in the old ways um but there are so many ways um there are

1163
01:43:30,891 --> 01:43:37,591
a place to be is not a new invention of something it's not unique it's uh maybe in its way but

1164
01:43:37,591 --> 01:43:44,271
there it's all over the world are people doing something like this uh or something similar so

1165
01:43:44,271 --> 01:43:52,951
So if you have community, then it's like 80% of it is done.

1166
01:43:52,951 --> 01:43:58,671
You have places like community, people who will be with your kids

1167
01:43:58,671 --> 01:44:00,891
and you put them in a healthy environment.

1168
01:44:01,931 --> 01:44:04,671
So that would be like the first step, you know,

1169
01:44:04,711 --> 01:44:06,291
finding a community somewhere.

1170
01:44:08,271 --> 01:44:09,071
I don't know.

1171
01:44:09,251 --> 01:44:10,351
Yeah, get off zero.

1172
01:44:10,971 --> 01:44:12,851
I could use loads of Bitcoin in that.

1173
01:44:12,851 --> 01:44:30,791
It's like, do your 100 hours, like spend what's Michael Saylor where he says, do like, just do 10 hours, 100 hours, because you're going to spend the rest of your life, you know, that type of analogy.

1174
01:44:30,791 --> 01:44:40,791
So when it comes to our kids, when you've done the work, so everyone's an uneducated unschooler.

1175
01:44:41,891 --> 01:44:44,131
If you educate yourself, I've been there.

1176
01:44:44,191 --> 01:44:51,291
I was on the other side and Sylvia started talking about it and I just started reading and thinking about it.

1177
01:44:51,511 --> 01:44:55,831
And then I'm at the point now, I would never send my kids to school.

1178
01:44:55,831 --> 01:45:04,851
like it is the so um you know start off get off zero is starting to read about it at least

1179
01:45:04,851 --> 01:45:12,731
and then you'll um find a way but it's just like bitcoin once you once you learn enough you go full

1180
01:45:12,731 --> 01:45:18,231
you're full you're maxi you you're fully into it and it's the same with unschooling

1181
01:45:18,231 --> 01:45:24,471
uh it's just you don't realize it yet and the the damage that the centralized fiat system is doing

1182
01:45:24,471 --> 01:45:31,631
is everywhere and it's brutal and we need to a new system the same goes for unschooling it's just

1183
01:45:31,631 --> 01:45:38,031
the green pill to the orange pill it is as important and it that schooling system

1184
01:45:38,031 --> 01:45:44,091
um it really goes to the heart of a human being and the rest of their life

1185
01:45:44,091 --> 01:45:51,031
you either condition them or you uncondition them one in zero and you can do whatever you want as

1186
01:45:51,031 --> 01:45:56,711
long as you don't harm anyone so you don't have to send your kids to school you don't have to

1187
01:45:56,711 --> 01:46:00,811
follow curriculum you don't have to there's so many things that you think you have to do you

1188
01:46:00,811 --> 01:46:08,771
should do but no no you don't yeah you don't have to teach them no they will learn yes just get out

1189
01:46:08,771 --> 01:46:13,591
of their way and let them just get out of their way yeah just make sure it's like burgers just

1190
01:46:13,591 --> 01:46:22,011
just make sure they don't burn yes just let them cook my my life like motherhood for me is

1191
01:46:22,011 --> 01:46:29,291
just keep them from killing themselves getting killed the rest is let them fall let them climb

1192
01:46:29,291 --> 01:46:38,811
let them cut themselves let them you know try out scream bite their father strangle him as long as

1193
01:46:38,811 --> 01:46:39,631
you don't harm anyone.

1194
01:46:41,211 --> 01:46:42,191
As long as you don't kill me.

1195
01:46:43,191 --> 01:46:44,951
Get out of the way of your children

1196
01:46:44,951 --> 01:46:47,611
and especially don't put them into school

1197
01:46:47,611 --> 01:46:51,191
because that is a huge block in front of your children.

1198
01:46:51,951 --> 01:46:54,651
And quickly becoming literal child abuse.

1199
01:46:54,991 --> 01:46:57,271
Like the more fiat it goes

1200
01:46:57,271 --> 01:47:01,271
and the more it moves away from useless information

1201
01:47:01,271 --> 01:47:03,891
to actually harmful information.

1202
01:47:04,891 --> 01:47:07,331
I was once told by someone who said,

1203
01:47:07,331 --> 01:47:13,231
if I homeschool our kids, it's child abuse.

1204
01:47:13,351 --> 01:47:14,631
And he'd never speak to me again.

1205
01:47:15,451 --> 01:47:18,551
So it's child abuse homeschooling.

1206
01:47:18,851 --> 01:47:20,331
So going to school is...

1207
01:47:21,851 --> 01:47:22,311
Healthy.

1208
01:47:22,571 --> 01:47:23,331
And that person...

1209
01:47:24,291 --> 01:47:25,331
Yeah, it's just...

1210
01:47:25,851 --> 01:47:26,331
No, it is...

1211
01:47:27,191 --> 01:47:29,131
I don't want to get that as a soundbite.

1212
01:47:29,651 --> 01:47:32,711
School is abusive, but to a certain degree...

1213
01:47:32,711 --> 01:47:33,291
Totally abusive.

1214
01:47:33,531 --> 01:47:34,471
It's totally damaging.

1215
01:47:34,471 --> 01:47:35,251
I definitely think it is.

1216
01:47:35,251 --> 01:47:35,671
It always has been.

1217
01:47:35,711 --> 01:47:36,471
It's retarded.

1218
01:47:36,471 --> 01:47:39,371
because hardly any child wants to go there.

1219
01:47:39,371 --> 01:47:41,371
There's the abuse.

1220
01:47:41,371 --> 01:47:45,971
The kids who want to go to the school are the ones that are good at memorization.

1221
01:47:45,971 --> 01:47:49,571
They go to the front, they get the reward and it's dopamine.

1222
01:47:49,571 --> 01:48:06,229
Then they the kids that like playing sport and the recess But it still damaging Even if they good at still damaging yeah like to undo the damage it just takes too much time it not worth it and sometimes the damage like i mentioned

1223
01:48:06,229 --> 01:48:11,969
with my story isn't you know direct and felt in the moment it's sometimes felt later as

1224
01:48:11,969 --> 01:48:17,109
in the sense that you you lost opportunities so these are all things that parents need to think

1225
01:48:17,109 --> 01:48:22,849
about um you mentioned this rabbit hole of just alternative education what are some resources you

1226
01:48:22,849 --> 01:48:26,929
to recommend people check out i know that there are some some books that daniel prince recommends

1227
01:48:26,929 --> 01:48:33,369
a lot he's really into this stuff as well shout out to daniel yeah amazing but where where do you

1228
01:48:33,369 --> 01:48:37,649
recommend people start with to learn more about this well other than your website of course i'll

1229
01:48:37,649 --> 01:48:42,569
make sure to put that in the show notes yeah on the website it says um like there are two books

1230
01:48:42,569 --> 01:48:49,629
one is free to learn by peter green or what's there peter gray peter gray sorry peter gray

1231
01:48:49,629 --> 01:49:00,089
and then it's the continuum concept by um lead hoff gene lead hoff um yeah because the free to

1232
01:49:00,089 --> 01:49:07,389
learn wraps everything up nicely it's a long book like i've listened to the audiobook it was

1233
01:49:07,389 --> 01:49:13,949
long but it just has everything in it and if people listen to it or read it

1234
01:49:13,949 --> 01:49:22,949
they're just going to continue that way and the Liedhof book is um is more about the you know

1235
01:49:22,949 --> 01:49:33,709
how we're supposed to live and and and learn in a in a community and uh like she describes how the

1236
01:49:33,709 --> 01:49:38,809
South American tribes live together and raise their children.

1237
01:49:39,749 --> 01:49:42,889
And, of course, we're not living in the jungle here,

1238
01:49:43,409 --> 01:49:46,369
but she talks about the foundation of a human being.

1239
01:49:46,369 --> 01:49:51,589
So it's not so much about unschooling, which people think starts

1240
01:49:51,589 --> 01:49:52,429
when they're six.

1241
01:49:54,329 --> 01:49:57,309
Unschooling is the whole lie, from zero until you die.

1242
01:49:58,089 --> 01:50:00,189
Unschooling is living without school.

1243
01:50:00,189 --> 01:50:03,689
it's not just from six onwards

1244
01:50:03,689 --> 01:50:04,929
yeah living without school

1245
01:50:04,929 --> 01:50:06,869
yes unschooling is living without school

1246
01:50:06,869 --> 01:50:09,749
yeah so these are the two books

1247
01:50:09,749 --> 01:50:10,529
that I recommend

1248
01:50:10,529 --> 01:50:14,229
and but there is

1249
01:50:14,229 --> 01:50:17,069
what's his name

1250
01:50:17,069 --> 01:50:18,609
another one I know that Daniel Prince

1251
01:50:18,609 --> 01:50:20,889
always recommends is the work of John Taylor Gatto

1252
01:50:20,889 --> 01:50:21,369
exactly

1253
01:50:21,369 --> 01:50:24,169
I haven't read it myself but I just pulled up

1254
01:50:24,169 --> 01:50:25,509
his books here and

1255
01:50:25,509 --> 01:50:28,529
Dumbing Us Down and Weapons of Masked Instruction

1256
01:50:28,529 --> 01:50:38,229
or like his two big books yeah they're very like uh depressing he's he you know says it as it is

1257
01:50:38,229 --> 01:50:44,049
but it's yeah again once you read it then uh you would never send your kids to school

1258
01:50:44,049 --> 01:50:51,709
i also love john hold because he came up with a term unschooling in the 70s um i like the

1259
01:50:51,709 --> 01:51:02,109
summer hill a.s neil he's just incredible like 1940s he set up a democratic school as in the kids

1260
01:51:02,109 --> 01:51:10,349
can go or not to school and the book is remarkable and there's a bringing back to when i said lima

1261
01:51:10,349 --> 01:51:17,309
can talk to an adult um there's a story in it quickly where the ceo of a manufacturing company

1262
01:51:17,309 --> 01:51:24,289
He heard that one of the apprentices was from Summerhill, and he called him up, a big, big company.

1263
01:51:24,289 --> 01:51:29,649
And he wanted to see what this unschooled kid was like, this Summerhill school kid.

1264
01:51:29,909 --> 01:51:32,029
And he walked in and he said, did you enjoy your school?

1265
01:51:32,089 --> 01:51:32,869
He said, I loved it.

1266
01:51:32,929 --> 01:51:35,669
And he said, it's kind of a long story short.

1267
01:51:35,769 --> 01:51:37,589
He said, yeah, I can see that.

1268
01:51:37,649 --> 01:51:46,749
And you're the first man who's, and he's an 18-year-old, the first person to ever walk into this office, look me in the eyes and shake my hand as an equal.

1269
01:51:46,749 --> 01:51:54,729
it it's like one of those hair hair art moments so the the child was truly himself

1270
01:51:54,729 --> 01:52:01,609
and the the guy and so what what he's saying is everyone else comes in through an authoritarian

1271
01:52:01,609 --> 01:52:10,089
system who bows down to authority so that in itself is um what a.s neil's absolute legend

1272
01:52:10,089 --> 01:52:12,329
1940s

1273
01:52:12,329 --> 01:52:13,809
ledge. Wow.

1274
01:52:14,429 --> 01:52:16,449
People have been talking about this for a long time.

1275
01:52:16,529 --> 01:52:18,429
It's just been pushed out of our view

1276
01:52:18,429 --> 01:52:20,609
because the government education

1277
01:52:20,609 --> 01:52:22,389
system, their indoctrination

1278
01:52:22,389 --> 01:52:24,489
track is very powerful. They have all the

1279
01:52:24,489 --> 01:52:25,789
fiat money printer

1280
01:52:25,789 --> 01:52:28,449
resources they need to

1281
01:52:28,449 --> 01:52:30,469
continue pushing people down their

1282
01:52:30,469 --> 01:52:32,369
track that isn't good for

1283
01:52:32,369 --> 01:52:33,689
anybody in this situation.

1284
01:52:34,809 --> 01:52:36,289
So excited to

1285
01:52:36,289 --> 01:52:38,389
have more awesome projects like your

1286
01:52:38,389 --> 01:52:44,109
guys out there and I'll include all the links to a place to be in the show notes. Rob and Sylvia

1287
01:52:44,109 --> 01:52:48,609
has been an absolute pleasure chatting with you today. I thank you so much for spending almost

1288
01:52:48,609 --> 01:52:53,189
two hours talking about this extremely important topic. I really look forward to more people

1289
01:52:53,189 --> 01:52:57,349
going down this rabbit hole and continuing to learn more. And thank you so much for your time.

1290
01:52:57,409 --> 01:52:59,889
I look forward to being in touch. Thanks so much, Ben.